Heikkis' Silhouette Challenge

[Lightning Mate]

Go on HP - one more post............say anything.

[Lightning Mate]

Is it the Bulgarian DAR-1?

[Lightning Mate]

Registration LZ-AKR.

[HappyPass]

Ok...
...Anything!

[RegDep]

What you say RR sounds like DAR 1A, LZ-IKR. And looks like it, too…..

[Lightning Mate]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/HPcard-1.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/335909-1.jpg

edited to remove intimidating words on photo

[RegDep]

So very approprite! HP stops by to say Hi (pretty conveniently) :) and Mate beats his protegè :\.

Congratulations HappyPass!!!

Please hurry back!

[HappyPass]

AAAH! I didn't notice! It was a trap!!! :p
Thank you everyone! :)

P.S. Well done LM!

[RegDep]

According to my recent (5 minutes ago) "research", the challenge is not a replica but this aeroplane, with new engine. The original was flown, i.a. by Mr. Petko Popganchev, a renowned Bulgarian pilot.

Here it is in the original shape

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/1373-1.jpg

Not very certain it this is correct. Not very reliable sources…..

In fact (see below), the LZ-IKR used to be B-BIKR and not B-BIKM in my picture.

This one, however

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/dar1-3.jpg

The challenge aircraft seems to be currently hanging from the ceiling in new terminal at Plovdiv airport.

Just to entertain myself, here is a better view to the current engine:

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/22752623-1.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

Agreed. I verified that by looking at the Bulgarian civil register.

[Ridge Runner]

It clearly is, mate!!!

According to my recent (5 minutes ago) "research", the challenge is not a replica but this aeroplane, with new engine. The original was flown, i.a. by Mr. Petko Popganchev, a renowned Bulgarian pilot.

Good to hear, as this is what I thought originally, but then found references to a replica!!!!! By the way, it does now hang from the ceiling of the new Plovdiv Airport terminal building, where I saw it last year!

Not sure how to allocate this one. As it is shown as a separate type from the DAR-1 on the web, I'm going to give Reg CONTROL

RR

[Lightning Mate]

What???

Please check post #502 et seq mate.

[Ridge Runner]

I did and at #505 Reg posts the DAR-1A, which the aircraft is (not a DAR-1) - unless I'm missing something here? RR

[Lightning Mate]

As Reg and I have discovered, the registration on the Bulgarian register has it as the DAR-1.

[RegDep]

Well RR, this is to Mate by a wide margin!

I hadn't seen his post, but he clearly referred to the correct aeroplane before my post.

8. Please exercise discretion regarding precise variants and even names of aircraft. A P-51 Mustang is good enough to identify a P-51K. Similarly a Rockwell Sparrow Commander is good enough to identify a Callair A-9, and so on.

[Lightning Mate]

LZ-IKR DAR DAR-1 B-BIKR LZ-KR....................

[Ridge Runner]

okay, okay... lets move on..... David control is yours (but I still don't agree) :)

sexyfly.dir.bg (http://sexyfly.dir.bg/_wm/pbasic/?df=694036&GDirId=e207dafe4f3afb72ec27d98f50f64441)
Bulgarian Air Force (http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/bulgaria/af/types/dar.htm)

Although it was originally a DAR-1 it was converteed in 1928 to DAR-1A. It is registered as such today

[RegDep]

OK, case closed. Mate show 'em :ok:

[skytrain10]

All very quiet! For what it's worth my money is on LZ-IKR being a replica of the original. The aircraft seems to have "appeared" in the last few years with no previous reference to it anywhere - other than when it was around in the '30's. Most reports refer to it as a replica. Although it appears on an internet register it does not seem to have featured in Air Britain's Bulgaria register. I would also doubt that an original would be suspended from a terminal ceiling when there is a museum nearby. Anyway, just my own view.

[Ridge Runner]

Morning Ken! I agree. If you compare the photos there are size and proportion differences. Check the wheels, for example. Proportionally they are different for sure.

RR

[RegDep]

Exactly. The discussion about whether or not it is a replica was basically my past-time when we waited for the call. And I find the discussion about the version (although RR referred to a "version" in his brief on engine) a bit academic. The way I read the lists, 1As (at least some of them) were 1s with a retrofitted 85hp engine. Whether there were other modifications, I don't know. The challenge has an engine that is neither, so the closest one can get is DAR-1, hence my conviction that this belongs to Mate.

I hope he surfaces soon and takes the control.

Edit: He's back!

[Lightning Mate]

Sorry guys.

After my post 517 I had to leave to take a class, at which stage Reg was the winner.

I have just come back and expected a challenge from Reg, only to find the thread very interesting reading.

[Lightning Mate]

A straightforward one, with no doubts about its' name....

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/nope-1.jpg

edit: forgot the tip of the elevator.

[skytrain10]

Afternoon David....American homebuild biplane?

[Lightning Mate]

Afternoon Ken.

Sort of - it was built by its' designer, but not a homebuilt in the true sense of the word.

[skytrain10]

Ah ok, a one-off then. Looks like he or she used a collection of bits from other aircraft and stuck them all together!

[Lightning Mate]

used a collection of bits from other aircraft and stuck them all together!

I agree, it looks that way, except that it wasn't.

[Ridge Runner]

Hi David,

the tail surfaces seem to be a V. Would that be right? I'm guessing this is a yank from the inter-war period, judging by the telegraph poles?

RR

[trucky04]

Merrit CIT-9 Safety Plane?

[Lightning Mate]

Not a V-tail mate, but you're correct about the rest.


Merrit CIT-9 Safety Plane?

Not that either trucky.

[skytrain10]

Not that either trucky You sure mate...NX5665 Merrill CIT-9 Safety Plane? Must be closely connected if not - looks pretty much the same.

[Lightning Mate]

He got the designers name wrong. :\

However, he must be the winner.

trucky has the thread.

[RegDep]

There are pictures of two different aeroplanes in the Merrill CIT-9 Safety Plane entry in Aerofiles…..

[Lightning Mate]

Its' name given was the Merrill experimental movable-wing biplane.

It has CIT-9 on the fuselage, so I think it's fair to give it to trucky, especially as he found it before the rest of you, and he's new here.

Let's see if he has a sleeve.

[skytrain10]

Hi trucky04. I see you are still out there. Do you have anything to post? If you don't we would ask that you declare Open House so that the thread can continue. Many thanks.

[trucky04]

Very sorry late reply. Tried to open photo Bucket. Could not. OPEN HOUSE:{

[RegDep]

Let me cover the OH for a change:

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/dmcopy.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

Kit-built?

[Ridge Runner]

A Russian WIGE aircraft, Reg?

[trucky04]

Aerocat Amphibian?

[RegDep]

Kit-built - No
Russian WIGE - Yes, that, too
Aerocat Amphibian - No

[Lightning Mate]

The pontoon-like hulls look like they may be inflatable or detachable.

Does the aeroplane convert?

[RegDep]

They are sort of inflatable. "Convert" I am not sure about the meaning of that. But it is, as such, capable of using various landing surfaces.

[skytrain10]

Aerorik Dingo?

[RegDep]

Aerorik Dingo

You got it!

Over to you!

[skytrain10]

Thanks Reg. An interesting aircraft...the Osprey Encyclopedia describes it as a multirole amphibian with go anywhere capability!

Here's the next challenge:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/50f8fd15.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

Little time left.

Ken, please don't tell me that the leading edges are like that, or was your original a gif image.

STOL?

[skytrain10]

Ken, please don't tell me that the leading edges are like that, or was your original a gif image. The leading edges are straight if that's what you mean? Best I could do with the low res image.

Not described as STOL.

[Lightning Mate]

Thanks mate - it's just that there are one or two STOL aeroplanes around with serrated leading edges.

Is it therefore kit/homebuilt?

[skytrain10]

Is it therefore kit/homebuilt? Available complete or as a kit.

[Lightning Mate]

Good evening Ken. :)

I can't fathom the perspective - it seems to have half a tailplane/elevator missing. :uhoh:

[skytrain10]

Evening David. You are looking at it from above on the starboard side. The aircraft was presumably executing a climbing right turn when the photo was taken. Checked the original and nothing is missing from the silhouette.

[Noyade]

Could be another DAR.......:)

Vector I or Vector II or none?

[RegDep]

Apparently could…. Good night gentlemen!

[VX275]

I was tempted to say its a Nando Groppo Trial but the undercarriage leg is wrong.

[skytrain10]

Morning Graeme....it is indeed another DAR. This time its the DAR-21 Vector. Well done:ok:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/176a5bbc.jpg

Noyade has control

[Noyade]

DAR is good, thanks Ken...but I'll make it OH. Maybe VX 275 has something?

[skytrain10]

I thought it an appropriate challenge in light of RR's last one. Lasted surprisingly long!

VX275...fancy putting up a challenge. Or anyone else out there?

[skytrain10]

Ok, no takers, so here's one for the nightshift:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/a80291b7.jpg

Good night.

[skytrain10]

Must admit with that rather distinctive tail I though that someone would have got it or been close by now.
So a clue....American, and an adaption of a more well known aircraft.

[RegDep]

Giid morning skytrain :),

Internet has been down all morning here (fancy that!), so will take a look at your triple-layer-tailfin now, but will need to go in half an hour for another couple of hours.

[skytrain10]

Hi Reg. Glad to know internet connection problems extend beyond the rural areas of the UK!
Not a triple layer tail...the "3rd" layer is actually the lower wing tip.

[RegDep]

the "3rd" layer is actually the lower wing tip

What a relief to know!

[Ridge Runner]

Morning boys!

Ken, is any part of the fin/rudder original? If so which part?

thanks.

M

[skytrain10]

Morning Martin
is any part of the fin/rudder original? If so which part?
A good question. The "more well known" aircraft that I referred to was produced in different forms. The basic model had a more traditional tailfin, but variants had the "double" fin. The challenge aircraft appears to have a more streamlined version of the double fin, but that may be due to it being deflected in the photo. Hope that makes sense :):)

[Lightning Mate]

Good morning Ken.

I have only until lunchtime today.:\

Is it a Curtiss?

[skytrain10]

Morning David. Not a Curtiss.

[Lightning Mate]

Giid morning skytrain

Skytrain is not a Scot, Reg. :E

[RegDep]

Dayton-Wright somewhere in the chain?

Skytrain is not a Scot, Reg.

No. But somebody had messed my keyboard up again. Cannot hit anything on the fitrst try.

[Lightning Mate]

Cannot hit anything on the fitrst try

Your keyboard really is in a mess mate!

[RegDep]

Xpi trsööx zjoml dp, ;szr?

[skytrain10]

Dayton-Wright somewhere in the chain? Not that I can see.

[skytrain10]

Another clue. I won't name the engine as it's quite unique to this aircraft (as far as I can see). The aircraft from which it was adapted had a Kinner engine.

[RegDep]

Phillips-Fleet 7 (Phillips 120hp engine).

[skytrain10]

Phillips-Fleet 7 it is Reg, well done:ok:. 2 aircraft converted from the original Kinner engined Fleet 7.
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/616a396f.jpg

RegDep has control

[RegDep]

Thanks skytrain,

An easy one to keep things running

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/OOcopy-1.jpg

[skytrain10]

Ryan (or North American) Navion A

[RegDep]

Ryan (or North American) Navion A

The caption of the picture calls it 1947 North American NA-145 Navion 4 C/N 159. Easy, as promised.

Back to you :ok:

[skytrain10]

Thanks Reg. Nice to have one that I didn't need to refer to anything!

Here's the next:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/70b786f7.jpg

[RegDep]

SportRider (MD-3 Rider in Europe)?

Giggled 'shark fin aircraft'

Shark Aero Shark 003

[skytrain10]

Not one of those. The MD-3 Rider/Sport Rider are high wing.

Edit...Shark Aero Shark....that's the one :ok:
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/727823c9.jpg

Back to you RD

[RegDep]

Not one of those. The MD-3 Rider/Sport Rider are high wing.

Right. That's where "you have seen the fin before". This is Shark.Aero s.r.l. Shark 003.

[RegDep]

Thanks again!

Next

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/Bildschirmfoto2011-08-10um152109.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

An Ultralight, Reg? CZAW Parrot?

[skytrain10]

Not had much of a chance to look at this one Reg. Doesn't feature in my 2010/11 Leisure aircraft guide :(. I guess its a very new design?
Going to have to sign off now.

[Ridge Runner]

Me too, Reg. I've searched and searched but can't find it. I don't think it is the Parrott but it might be a descendant of it?

well, I have to go too. Sorry!!!!!!!!

RR

[RegDep]

It is new but news have been out about it already in 2007. Parrot connection I need to check.

Edit to say, that it seems likely that this project never got to its wings, although it was drummed out in 2007 - 2008. But there are lots of artwork in the web, and also pictures of a prototype, but I am not sure if it ever flew. If you ask, I'll nullify the challenge.

There was a certain geographical connection at one time between this and Parrot, though :8.

[Lightning Mate]

Abend Reg. :)

It seems there are two aeroplanes in your challenge!

Which one do you want us to identify?

[RegDep]

It only looks that way Mate :E. The left wing has no separate identity.

[Lightning Mate]

Total understanding failure...........!!

Which left wing?

[RegDep]

My dear Mate, tell me about it.

[Lightning Mate]

Morning Reg. :)

My dear Mate, tell me about it.

Nothing to tell!!

It seems to have a very loose connection with Czechoslovakia. :\

I have just worked out the perspective. Those winglets look quite large for the size of the aeroplane.

[RegDep]

Good morning Mate :)

You are on a track with the connection. Czechoslovakia but after it got loose ;). But the project went far-far away!

[Lightning Mate]

But the project went far-far away!

To America?

Is the word "republic" meaningful?

[RegDep]

Farther than America.

Republic has little or no meaning in this context.

[Lightning Mate]

Farther than America?

A long way south-east then?

[RegDep]

All the way. Even north-west could almost do :8.

[Lightning Mate]

Japan, Malaysia?

Maybe China.

[Lightning Mate]

Your turn to play the map game...............

[RegDep]

Step 1: Start from Gelnica, Slovak Republic.

Step 2: Initial heading 91°, 8440 nautical miles

Step 3: See which aircraft was built in Gelnica, dismantled and brought there to be produced…..

[Lightning Mate]

OK - step 2?

[Lightning Mate]

Plotted.

That puts me in the North Pacific ocean off the coast of Canada!

[RegDep]

Come on. Mate……

I am lost

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/Bildschirmfoto2011-08-11um112856.png

Allow 15 nm for Kosice to Gelnica.

[Lightning Mate]

Can't mate - I now have to leave you and teach until lunch. :\

Anything to do with Jabiru?

Weidersehen.

[RegDep]

Anything to do with Jabiru?

I think Jabiru 3300 was considered as one of the engine alternatives.

[Lightning Mate]

Is it the Aveo Phantom?

[Ridge Runner]

:D:D:D:D

http://64.131.77.246/~aveonzc/templates/AveoNewzealand/images/AveoPhantom_image.gif

[RegDep]

Is it the Aveo Phantom?

Yes, it is :D

Over to you Mate :ok:

[Lightning Mate]

Blimey, that took some finding, even with the clues!

Silly me plotted on a transverse Mercator chart and not on a Lambert conical projection.

Your 091 initial track is a degree out. :E

Thanks RR for the accolade.

Please standby.....

[Ridge Runner]

and please (pray etc...) ... somthing not plastic/biplane.. Got something WW2?

[Lightning Mate]

Got something WW2

Nope..........earlier.....

[RegDep]

Your 091 initial track is a degree out.

It very well may be, because Gelnica has no airport, and it is taken from the nearest, which Kosice.

Would you buy 090?

[Lightning Mate]

Yes - I'll buy 090 degrees true. We never say heading, always track.

OK smartass........

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/oldee.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

RR has gone! I seem to have upset him.

[RegDep]

Christopher Columbus: Santa Maria?

[Lightning Mate]

Wrong year.

All I know about this aeroplane is its' nationality.

[RegDep]

Which way do you want me to attack, ask you which, do a blunder-bus guess, or try to find it? The third way may take a while :ooh:

[Lightning Mate]

From Berlin, track 235 degrees true and stop somewhere obvious......

Better get it before skytrain arrives - he knows one of the oldies sites I use.

[RegDep]

So France, then. Do you know more about it or is this all?

[Lightning Mate]

I have the year - 1913.

Whether or not it flew is a big question.

I can give another clue based on the SEPECAT Jaguar.

I just typed something into Goggle and the above would take you straight to it.

[Lightning Mate]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/clue-7.jpg

[RegDep]

A Breguet ????

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/Bildschirmfoto2011-08-11um155107.png

[Lightning Mate]

Take one word off the gate and add it to the building in the image.

Not Breguet.

C'mon Reg - 1913 xxxxxxxxx monoplane.

Leaving for 45 minutes.

[RegDep]

1913 Autostable Monoplane

Good grief - I went to your website (which I know) looked through 1913 and did not see it. Should I get something fixed?

[Lightning Mate]

There you go. :ok:

Your thread - catch you later.

[RegDep]

Thanks. See you!

Not a biplane…

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/15copy.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

Italian, mate. Cant?

Edit: the 506.

OH if correct as I have to go soon!

And ... thanks, Reg!!! WW2, not a biplane, and not plastic!!!!!

[RegDep]

Not a Cant, RR, and especially not 506. Sheer number of engines would say no.

[Ridge Runner]

Sorry ..........

the FIAT-CMASA Rs.14B

[RegDep]

Sorry ..........

No reason to be.

Fiat RS.14 it is :ok:

Do you want to keep your OH?

[Ridge Runner]

Yes mate. I think it is only you and I at the moment so why don't you post another?

[RegDep]

I'll prepare one and see if the house is still open when ready. Open House has been requested.

[Ridge Runner]

OK. I'm heading home but maybe will catch you in 45 minutes or so? RR

[RegDep]

Here we go

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/1acopy-1-1.jpg

I'LL be back in an hour.

[Lightning Mate]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/pig-01.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

its a Jap, Reg?

[RegDep]

LM: Oink!

RR: Yes, it is.

[RegDep]

Additional clue for the night: Didn't make it to WW2.

Turning in now, will follow this up in the morning, but then bail out around 10:00 CET DST for the weekend.

Nite!

[Noyade]

G'day Reg. The Kawanishi J6K1 Jinpu? Unlikely, but if correct, open house.

[RegDep]

Good morning / afternoon!

Not the Kawanishi Graeme.

[Lightning Mate]

Good morning Reg. :)

Do the wings fold?

[RegDep]

Hi Mate :)

My source does not say so directly, but there is every reason to believe that they do.

[Lightning Mate]

Thanks mate.

Is it an Aichi?

Back at 1015 Prune time.

[RegDep]

Not an Aichi Mate.

Sorry, need to go.

It was the planned Zero successor Mitsubishi A7M Reppu.

...production was disrupted by an earthquake in December 1944 in the Nagoya region, and by Allied bombing, with only eight aircraft completed by the end of the war. The type never saw combat.

Open House

I may drop by briefly over the weekend, otherwise back on Tuesday.

[Ridge Runner]

I'd say it has some "Hayabusa" about it. Close, Reg?

Morning, by the way!!!!!!!

[RegDep]

Sorry, posts crossed. See above.

Good morning and see you RR!

[Lightning Mate]

Good morning Martin.

You are unusually quiet.......

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/Fri-1.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

An LSA, David?

[Lightning Mate]

No Martin, and before you ask, it's not a homebuilt either.

[Ridge Runner]

David, Is it a re-engined version of a more well known design? M

[Lightning Mate]

No Martin, but it was produced with several versions of power units.

Shortly after certification, the company went out of business.

Would you like the country? ;)

[Ridge Runner]

Yes please! :E

Would it be South African?

[Lightning Mate]

Long way off!!

You might care to look at Canada........;)

[Ridge Runner]

A Found machine?

[Lightning Mate]

You've almost Found it...........

[Ridge Runner]

a FBA-2 variant???? If so OH!!!

[Ridge Runner]

Centennial 100?

[Lightning Mate]

It sure is - the tailwheel version. :ok:

I'll leave you to declare the OH, but only you and I are on thread.

[Ridge Runner]

Go on, post another!!!!!

[Ridge Runner]

Very lonely here!!!

http://www.monsterscreenprints.com/images/BILLY%20NO%20MATES.jpg Bye bye .......

[Lightning Mate]

Don't be alone......

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/bloolight.jpg

[sycamore]

Ding-a-ling,Bell P-63c,or L-39-1/2.....O H if correct..

[RegDep]

Bell L-39 Mate,

Greetings from a nondescript hotel lobby somewhere in the backwoods of nowhere.

One of my first difficulties in PPRuNe a year ago was to ID an aircraft with fixed leading edge slats. It has bothered me since.

Open House if correct


Boooaaah! Took me too long to type :{

Edit: Night gentlemen!

[Lightning Mate]

sycamore has it - the Bell.

Hard luck Reg, but ir would not have made any difference in this case, since both of you have called OH.

Open House.

[SincoTC]

Morning all :)

S'funny, clicking on LM's post on the AH&N page takes me to Page 33 and RR's Post "Go on, post another!!!!! " and the page 34 tab just reloaded 33 as if what was on 34 had been deleted :confused:

Very odd, after posting above, It didn't appear and I still couldn't access 34, even after closing Prune altogether. I guess it's a local cache problem as I could get in normally on another computer.

Gotta shoot off now to pick someone up from the airport, will try and get back later!

[Lightning Mate]

Blimey - 14 hours with an OH!!

On top of that there is nobody airborne except one lone Lightning.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/greensat.jpg

[evansb]

Peruvian Faucett-Stinson F.19 ?

[Lightning Mate]

Nice to see you Bri. :)

Correct!

Your thread. :ok:

[evansb]

Thanks. Here goes:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/JUST_A_DUSTAH.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

DW-1 Eagle.

More correctly, Eagle DW-1.

[evansb]

LM is spot on:ok: 96 examples were built in Alexandria, Minnesota from 1980 to 1984. Standard power was a Lycoming IO-540, but a Continental radial engine was available. Your turn.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/feb_1021.gif

[Lightning Mate]

Checking out for a few days, so OPEN HOUSE.

[SincoTC]

Have a good time LM, but hurry back!!

If there's anybody out there, have a shot at this one
http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC_wtf155.jpg

[Noyade]

G'day Trevor.

Never flew?

[SincoTC]

Evening Graeme,

Never flew, a project development of two other aircraft.

[Noyade]

Luft '46....?

[SincoTC]

Sorry mate, it's not in there (and not German)!

[Noyade]

a project development of two other aircraft. Looking at it, should I see any of those other two aircraft in the shape?
I was thinking of some sort of Boeing development of the XF-8B?

[SincoTC]

It is very similar to it's sibling product (that has been on SC), but not at all like the other quoted aircraft in my reference and I have doubts about its worth.

Not American BTW.

[Noyade]

French?

The tail looks a little similar to the Arsenal VB.200 series...?

[/URL][URL="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/vb20x.jpg/"]http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3953/vb20x.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/683/vb20x.jpg/)

[SincoTC]

You're getting very close mate , not the 200 series but VB what??

Clue:

It was to be powered by a coupled pair of Arsenal 12Hengines, (French versions of the Jumo 213).

[Noyade]

Some sort of proposed development of the VB.10?

[SincoTC]

Some sort of proposed development of the VB.10?

Correct, see my edit above re engines

[Noyade]

I can't find any images of it on the net Trevor, but one forum talks about a VB.15....?

[SincoTC]

That's the one I had, well done! The Arsenal VB-15 :D

I've only found drawings and illustrations.

Noyade has control

[Noyade]

Ahhh...found it. Nice site mate! :ok:

http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Images/2-Airplanes/Allies/4-France/1-Fighters/Arsenal-VB15/p1.jpg

[Noyade]

Well I've been looking for cockpits and aerodromes lately (:)), but I found this a little earlier. Can't see it on Mel's list...

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1489/img022da.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/24/img022da.jpg/)

[SincoTC]

WWI, German, Recce, Benz engine ??

Is that the fin shape, or is what we see a combination of vertical and horizontal surfaces?

[Noyade]

Czech.
1923.
Maybech Mb.IVa engine.
"Unique fin shape".

Not many (if any?) illustrations on the net...
...so...
enjoyed a long career in Czechoslovakian service, remaining in use until 1934. :)

[SincoTC]

Most likely a Letov Š-6 ??

Found this one online, not very good quality though!

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/letovS-6.gif

[Noyade]

That's him! :ok:

Here's the original. Very dark to begin with....which makes it easier to "silhouette"...

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/8681/img023y.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/img023y.jpg/)

Your control Trevor! :)

[Noyade]

Gonna hit the hay mate. Enjoy your Sunday, what's left. :ok:

[SincoTC]

Thanks Graeme,

Very dark to begin with....which makes it easier to "silhouette"...


Exactly why I chose this one too!!:)


http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC_wtf156.jpg

Edit: Good night Graeme, sleep well :ok: I'm off to do some gardening, will monitor periodically!

Edit2: Been a quiet day since Graeme left! Turning in myself now; got an early start tomorrow, but will monitor as often as possible :)

[SincoTC]

Good Morning/afternoon/evening all :)

No guesses so far :( threfore a little clue to speed along the new day!

Toothpicks and fans!

off to work now, will monitor periodically.

[Noyade]

Morning Stig.

There is a Sturtevant S-4 Seaplane that the USN acquired in 1916 which has a very similar tail?

American airplanes: St - Sz (http://www.aerofiles.com/_st.html)

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6017/sturts48103673.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/sturts48103673.jpg/)


(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/830/6sturtevantseaplaner.jpg/)

[SincoTC]

Evening Graeme :),

Sturtevant S-4 Seaplane

That's the one mate; well done :D The link below is very interesting and shows that they started off with toothpicks and fans, dabbled in aircraft and engines, then went back to fans until quite recently!

B.F.Sturtevant History (http://www.sturtevantfan.com/History.html)

Noyade has control :ok:

[Noyade]

Thanks Trevor.

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1369/img024ma.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/img024ma.jpg/)

[Ridge Runner]

British. THe Gloster something or other?

[Noyade]

Not British Martin.

[trucky04]

This is screaming out Russian or am i just hearing @the voices' again?

[Noyade]

Voices in yer head mate. :ooh:

Not Russian.

[Ridge Runner]

OK, French? A Bloch?

[Noyade]

Not French mate.

Let me know if you want a clue.

[Noyade]

When you find it, and you will find it, don't wait for confirmation from me. Just power onwards. You'll find the exact image on the net. Cheers.

Italian.

[skytrain10]

Afternoon Graeme. Well, not the same image, but is it the CANSA FC.20Bis?

When you find it, and you will find it, don't wait for confirmation from me. Just power onwards. On that basis I guess Graeme has hit the hay...reckon its the one?

If you agree then Open House as work calls

[SincoTC]

Afternoon Ken,

I'll second your answer i.e. the CANSA FC.20Bis ; I think that this is the same image as Graeme used:

Google Images (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=%22CANSA+FC.20Bis%22&um=1&hl=en&sa=G&tbm=isch&tbnid=Dt1wEr4PfC297M:&imgrefurl=http://www.wikideep.it/fiat-cansa-f.c.20/&docid=nrD1bA8htbrQRM&w=574&h=210&ei=8RFJTpauD8iu8gOAncyaBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=691&vpy=167&dur=16911&hovh=136&hovw=371&tx=87&ty=74&page=3&tbnh=57&tbnw=156&start=67&ndsp=44&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:67&biw=1776&bih=707)+

I see you've asked for an Open House, unfortunately my lunch break is over, so I can't take it up, but I see Martin's light is on (although it could be a lonely vigil with Reg and David away), maybe HP will turn up!

[skytrain10]

Thanks Trevor, and yes now I have seen the image it is definitely the same machine.
So for sake of good order it is Open House.

[SincoTC]

Home now but nobody about! Betta keep things going, as I can monitor 'til the morning, or at least long enough for the WWofO to bag it, here's the next silhouette!

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC_wtf157.jpg

[irishair2001]

Evening SincoTC,is it the Messerschmitt Bf- 162

[SincoTC]

Evening irishair,

Sorry, it's not a Messerschmitt.

[irishair2001]

Is it French by any chance then?

[SincoTC]

Correct, it is French!

[irishair2001]

LIORE ET OLIVIER LeO 451

[SincoTC]

That's the one mate; the Loire et Olivier LeO 451 :D

irishair2001 has control :ok: Got anything to post ?

[irishair2001]

Thanks SincoTC,I will have to pass on the OH as i can not post pics or sils,perhaps you would like to take the open house for me instead?

[SincoTC]

Sorry to hear that you can't post; you really should have a dabble, I was hesitant at first, but then I took the plunge and opened a free Photobucket account and found that it was all very easy, especially with inverted three-views (in MS Paint) to start with.

I don't normally do successive posts as it seems like "hogging it", but as there's not many about I'll put one up in a couple of minutes!

No recognised names on the active user list, so here we go!

Now, if you think that it looks like a model, there's a very good reason for that! It is a model, given away by it's simple wire U/C legs. The real thing had quite a complex strutted U/C and a domed-top conical rotor-hub, but I couldn't find a decent photo of this quite significant machine to post, but for the most part, it's quite accurate!

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC_wtf153.jpg

[SincoTC]

It does rather look like it should be powered by a rubber-band, but the original had an 85hp engine and although underpowered it did fly with some success!

[evansb]

The Wilford W.R.K ?


http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/wilford1.jpg

[SincoTC]

That's the one Bri :D,

The Wilford W.R.K Gyroplane of 1931

This gyroplane is an elegant design produced in 1931. The aircraft being a single seat design in a tractor configuration with sleek simple lines and a beautifully tapered four-bladed rotor. The aircraft model identification came from the initials of E. Burke Wilford and German aero engineers Walter Rieseler and Walter Kreiser, upon whose rotor patent (1927) the ship was designed around.

The notable and historic achievement of the WRK Gyro was the practical application of cyclic pitch control. This advancement allowed the aviator to directly control the pitch direction of the rotor disc. This development would improve the agility of the aircraft and later be one of the required technologies needed for the development of a practical vertical lift aircraft, the helicopter.
evansb has control :ok:

[evansb]

Thanks! I'm fresh out of silhouettes, so I'm going to declare a rare (for me) OPEN HOUSE. I do have some mystery cockpit photos remaining, but I don't play that thread anymore.

[SincoTC]

That's fair enough mate,

I'm going to turn in now as I've another early start tomorrow morning, hopefully, Graeme might turn up to keep you company.

evansb has declared an Open House

Edit: At work now and just a quick check to if anything happened overnight! See yopur light on Reg; welcome back and hope you had a good time :ok:

Will try and get back later, (LM is away too, dunno when due back)!

[RegDep]

Good morning all!

OH?

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/1608copy.jpg

In the full configuration there was a canopy.

[Ridge Runner]

Hi all!!!

German, Reg?

RR

[RegDep]

Hi RR! Not German.

[Noyade]

Morning gents.

Austrian Reg?
Oberlerchner MG-23 "Musger"....?

[RegDep]

Artnoon Graeme. Not Austrian either.

[Noyade]

Working my way through my "Big Book of Gliders". :)

Argentina?
Neiva BN-1? Tail looks right...but the nose is wrong?

Stop me when I get to the right country.

[RegDep]

Well, the country is in a way important but in another more like a sum of other events…..

[Ridge Runner]

Argentina, mate? Isn't Neiva from Brasil?

[Noyade]

Skipping France...too many.

(Was that wise?)

Polish?
SZD-12 "Mucha-100"

I forgot to ask....circa 1960? If not, I'm screwed.

Argentina, mate? Isn't Neiva from Brasil?

:ok: Flicking pages too fast mate!

[RegDep]

Argentina, mate? Isn't Neiva from Brasil?

Kinda moot, because this has no connection to either…..

Not Polish, but let's put a fix pin on the wold map for Poland as one country in the plot.

[Noyade]

Well, the country is in a way important but in another more like a sum of other events….. Eh?..............

[RegDep]

circa 1960?

Pretty circa: late 40s to late 60s

Skipping France wouldn't harm you in this case.

What would you say about my aerodrome stab Graeme?

[Noyade]

What would you say about my aerodrome stab Graeme?

Laughed when I first saw your answer....then googled....then ate humble pie. Would never have picked that for Bankstown, looks Third World...then again maybe we are? :)

My book wasn't "Big", I lied. I'm done. Surprisingly nothing listed for Switzerland in 1960? I thought that was THE place for soaring?

[RegDep]

looks Third World

C'mon, June 1942. Many places did….

No fix in Switzerland.

Let's put another fix in Canada to cover the geographical spread :E,

[Ridge Runner]

a Lockheed?

[Noyade]

Let's put another fix in Canada to cover the geographical spread http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif, I'm already lost...in more ways than one. Need a country mate.

Have to leave soon to watch another Ed Wood movie - "Bride of the Monster" with Bela Lugosi.....(as we discussed.)

(WA...I was going to put Wake Airfield...:()

Cheers! :ok:

[RegDep]

Not a Lockheed RR.

OK Graeme. Country: Designers Canadian and Polish, had worked for Junkers, Supermarine and Canadian Roe (not both in all).

A site containing vintage sailplanes lists this under T because it is "The xxxxxx".

[Ridge Runner]

http://www.scalesoaring.co.uk/VINTAGE/Documentation/Harbinger/Harbinger_files/Harbinger-1.jpg

the Harbinger? Open House please if correct!

[RegDep]

The Harbinger MK2

Correct RR. A homebuilt one-off glider from UK. (MK1 was built in Canada).

Over to you :ok:

RR has requested Open House.

[Ridge Runner]

Thanks mate but I couldn't have got there without your clues!!! So, OPEN HOUSE

[Ridge Runner]

try this?

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/peach38336/pprune160811A.jpg

[skytrain10]

Afternoon Martin, coffee break time. There is some resemblance to the Douglas O-46. Is it American, and is that a PW radial?

[RegDep]

One more question RR: Is there an (un-silhouetted) strut in the l/g??

[Ridge Runner]

Douglas O-46. Is it American, and is that a PW radial?

Hi Ken. No, not a Douglas and not a PW. Not a yank either!

Reg, Yes you are correct. Sorry!

RR

[skytrain10]

Oh well, at least I've eliminated one country!
European, French?
Back to work now so will check in later

[Ridge Runner]

Oh well, at least I've eliminated one country!
European, French?
Back to work now so will check in later


European - yes
French - no

:E

[RegDep]

Half-blind stab: RWD-14

[Ridge Runner]

No, Reg, sorry