Heikkis' Silhouette Challenge

[Ridge Runner]

Junkers J15?

edit: i'll retract that! :(

[Noyade]

Thanks Ken. It was worth a try. Night. :)

[Lightning Mate]

Cantilever wing?

[skytrain10]

Cantilever wing? Yep.

And not Junkers Martin...not German either. When I said the "right part of the world" I was meaning the general area, not the specific country.

[Lightning Mate]

Was it Austro-Hungarian?

[skytrain10]

Was it Austro-Hungarian?
Nope. Germany was closer.

[Lightning Mate]

Goose chase.....

Holland or France then.

[skytrain10]

Neither of those, but they are both as close as Germany:ok:

Incidentally, Graeme was on the right track in that it flew for a national airline.

[Lightning Mate]

I'll go West then, towards Poland and what was Czechoslovakia.

Found something indistinct. Did the main gear struts attach vertically to the wing roots?

[skytrain10]

I'll go West then, towards Poland and what was Czechoslovakia. Thats east by my reckoning. On the basis Germany, France and Holland are equally close, that only leaves one country!!!

[Lightning Mate]

Sometimes I'm just dumb!

Perhaps Belgium then.

Please see question above.

[skytrain10]

Found something indistinct. Did the main gear struts attach vertically to the wing roots? Nope, they attach to the bottom of the fuselage.

Perhaps Belgium then. Bingo:ok:

Now go get it!

[Lightning Mate]

Love to mate, but must go. :\

Everyone else will now be on the right road......

[Ridge Runner]

Renard R.17???

The Renard R.17 was a Belgian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium) four-seat cabin monoplane designed and built by Societé Anonyme des Avions et Moteurs Renard. The R.17 was a high-wing cantilever monoplane, the cantilever wing an unusual feature when most contempary aircraft still had braced wings. Designed as a high-speed transport for fresh flowers no aircraft were ordered and the only R.17 was retained by the company till 1946.

OPEN HOUSE if correct

RR

[skytrain10]

Everyone else will now be on the right road...... Perils of getting so close David....mind you....

Renard R.17??? Right idea Martin, but not a Renard.

[Lightning Mate]

But I posted that one some time ago.

[Ridge Runner]

SABCA S.2, then?

Edit:

The SABCA S.2 was an airliner built in Belgium in 1926.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABCA_S.2#cite_note-JEA-0) It was a conventional, high-wing cantilever monoplane with fixed, tailskid undercarriage. The flight deck was open, but the passenger cabin was fully enclosed.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABCA_S.2#cite_note-IEA-1) Power was provided by a single engine in the nose, driving a two-blade propeller, and whose exhaust was collected in a single stack that extended up over the wing. Metal was construction throughout, with corrugated skin. Only a single example was built, which served with SABENA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABENA).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABCA_S.2#cite_note-JEA-0)

Again, OPEN HOUSE if correct

[skytrain10]

SABCA S.2, then? That's the one Martin:ok:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/86a93f24.jpg

Ridge Runner has declared Open House

[Ridge Runner]

OK, cancel the OH... I had time ... :) ....

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/peach38336/pprune011111A.jpg

[skytrain10]

Hi mate, is that an open canopy or is it just slid back?

[Ridge Runner]

Slid back, Ken. I'm hoping this'll go fast!

[Out Of Trim]

Yak-1 Perhaps?

[Ridge Runner]

Not a YAK, mate ... and you are from Horsham, mate!!! RR

[Out Of Trim]

Not Originally, but been here 12 yrs now!

[skytrain10]

Is it French Martin?

[Ridge Runner]

I was there from 1983... my kids still are.... Very nice place to live. RR

[Ridge Runner]

Not French, Ken

Edit: removed very easy clue! :) I'll be back later. If anyone gets it and it is verify by two others you can move on!

RR

[sabredog]

The Avia B.35

[skytrain10]

The Avia B.35 Reckon that's a good call and get's my votehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[SincoTC]

Evening Martin,

I think it's an Avia AV-135 ??

Edit: I see it looks like SD may be there first, dunno if that's the same animal or not, but Martin's photo comes up in a search for the AV-135
Redirect Notice (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=%22Avia+AV.135&um=1&hl=en&biw=1593&bih=781&tbm=isch&tbnid=PmbcwFjzspQJwM:&imgrefurl=http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/CZECHOSLOVAKIA.htm&docid=R7GdVRrDhktHbM&imgurl=http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/picture/cz1.jpg&w=920&h=619&ei=DjKwTsnwGpTH8gOYwvSUAQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=370&sig=108281996807828614199&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=200&start=0&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0&tx=110&ty=53)


Ken, I see you seconded SD at the same time as I posted my guess. Martin's light is still on, but I guess he's gone for now. I'm easy on this as I'm out for a few hours this evening and thus would ask for an Open House if judged correct.

[Noyade]

Hi Trevor. If I had seen this last night, I too would have gone for the B 135 based on the retractable undercart. Purists could argue that it may be the B 35.3 version, (even then it was ultimately renamed B 135), but there are no purists on this thread, are there? :)
Cheers.

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/396/img145kz.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/i/img145kz.jpg/)

[skytrain10]

Morning Graeme....reckon this was Martin's source:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/d1fc6d67.jpg

The caption describes it as a Avia B35 but whether it is in reality the B35/3 or a B135 I don't know and as far as I can tell there is no external difference!

Edit to say that the same photo (but on a different website) also comes up on a search for the B.135!

[SincoTC]

Evening Ken, G'day Graeme,

Just got in and rather surprised to find Martin's challenge unresolved!

If you had clicked on the link on my post marked "Redirect Notice", you would see that it too shows the same photo as Martin's and is from the Greyfalcon Rare Aaircraft site that he has used in the past for several challenges, but this one is labelled AV-135 as you can see.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/AV-135.jpg

I had looked on that site for this reason. When I returned to SC after posting my answer, I saw that SD had said that it was an A.35 and that Ken had seconded that answer at the same time as my post. I didn't have time to check out if it was a later variant of the same thing, but an image search showed fixed spatted undercarriage. Noting that SD had left no instructions, I just left the link to what seemed like RR's image and instructions for an OH if anyone else wanted to check and second that answer (as another vote for the a.35 would leave it stalled unless SD returned) and that Martin said he would return later anyway!

[skytrain10]

Trevor...too complicated for me! Having researched it this evening, it could be either the B.35/3 or B.135 (the latter being the production version of the former), there being no external difference. So happy to second your guess as well!

On the basis Martin doesn't look like returning I guess the decider is down to Graeme.....:)

[SincoTC]

Hi Ken,

I suspected that there wouldn't be much to distinguish the variants and I'd hoped that Martin would be back, but in case he didn't I thought I'd leave it up with an OH request as a another vote for the A-35 with no instructions from SD would have left it stalled anyway, I thought it might be a way out as the photo seemed pretty cut and dried :ugh:

Edit:

So happy to second your guess as well!

On the basis Martin doesn't look like returning I guess the decider is down to Graeme.....http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

Thanks, so do you think what Graeme said is a go for the 135 ?

If so I'll have to still request an OH as I've got a 4am start tomorrow and won't have much time to monitor in the morning!

Edit2: Thanks for clarification Graeme, I'll declare an Open House, got anthing for us (or Bri) as I'm off to hit the hay soon!

[Noyade]

do you think what Graeme said is a go for the 135Well, that's what I reckon. :)

Looking at my pics and line drawings...the 135 has a recess for the tailwheel, the 35.3 does not. Looks like I'm a purist. :)

Top...35
Lower...35.3.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/860/img147r.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/i/img147r.jpg/)

135...

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3014/img146a.jpg (http://img545.imageshack.us/i/img146a.jpg/)

[SincoTC]

Looks like I'm a purist. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

Surely not!! :p So what's the difference between a B.135 and an AV-135 :)

[Noyade]

Dunno mate....B for Bulgaria? :) Isn't that where they went?

I'm happy to wait for Martin. I'm just being anal. :)

Sleep well guys!

[Noyade]

The caption describes it as a Avia B35Ken, I reckon that fails the Noyade Tailwheel Test (NTT). Yours is a 135 as is my heavily re-touched photo at top of page.

Ken had seconded that answer at the same time as my post

Ignore him Trevor! :)

[SincoTC]

I'm happy either way mate, but If you and Ken are behind the "whatever"-135, then my Open House can stand for someone to post before morning comes around here and Martin returns!

Edit; People that put stuff uip on the Web seem fairly cavalier with caption accuracy but it does seem to me that the image search engines often put up the first image on the page that contains your search text string, which it then appends in bold to that image, but I often find that they may not actually belong together when I open the page and dig deeper!!

[Noyade]

image search engines often put up the first image on the page that contains your search text string, which it then appends in bold to that imageSay what?! :)

Definitely not the spatted first two prototypes of the 35. Never seen a photo of the transitional 35.3 version, but Green says they took it to the Brussels exhibition and stuck a B.135 sign on it!

[SincoTC]

Just having a quick break after an early start; in view of the number of posts last night, let me clarify that the current situation is that I have declared an Open House by mutual agreement of Skytrain10 and Noyade, in accordance with Ridge Runner's instructions.

Back to work now and a very busy day ahead, I hope to return later if possible.

[Ridge Runner]

Morning.. I was going to accept Avia B-135, per my source Main Page @ rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us (http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/)!

RR

[skytrain10]

Morning Martin...certainly lot's of speculation by all of us last night! That means honours go to SincoTC who declared Open House if he was correct.

[Noyade]

Morning gents.

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6792/img148z.jpg (http://img600.imageshack.us/i/img148z.jpg/)

[skytrain10]

Morning Graeme....a biplane or a parasol?

[Noyade]

Sesquiplane Ken.

Well, biplane, lower wing has a shorter span.

[Noyade]

According to my source it was nicknamed La grosse Julie (Fat Julie).

[skytrain10]

Must be the Amiot 120?

[Noyade]

A tad higher...122 BP3...but they seem to all be related.

Your control Ken. :)

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4483/imagephpme.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/i/imagephpme.jpg/)

[skytrain10]

Thanks Graeme...you're being kind again:ok:

Ok, here we go:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/e6ad0017.jpg

[sycamore]

Looks like a copycat Cub ,with a Pobjoy radial..

[skytrain10]

No connection with the Cub that I'm aware of. Not a Pobjoy engine.

[SincoTC]

Good afternoon Ken,

Is that a Brochet MB-70 ??

I'll have to ask for an Open House if it is; I'm just having a lunch break, but then it's back to the workshop.

Edit: just managed to cobble a challenge together, but my monitoring might be a little sporadic, up to you!

[skytrain10]

Is that a Brochet MB-70 ?? It is indeed Trevor. Well done:ok:

Brochet MB-70 - Tourisme - Un sicle d'aviation franaise (http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=9760&ID_CONSTRUCTEUR=257&ANNEE=0&ID_MISSION=0&MOTCLEF=)

SincoTC has control...go for it...

[SincoTC]

Thanks Ken,

Good timing; just off now, will check back every half hour or so!

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC_wtf166.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

Hi Trevor! A long-endurance machine? For surveillance? American? RR

Edit: actually I think its more like a motor-glider? European? Cezech, perhaps?

[SincoTC]

Hi Martin,

Not for surveillance! Endurance yes! It was built as a trainer and to set the distance record for sport aircraft of 500 - 1000 kg (flightweight)

Not American

Seen your edit: It was a motor-glider, but not Czech, further East :)

Edit2:

Just noticed that for some reason, the image I posted still shows a dimension arrow and leader lines showing width over the tailplane, I did obliterate these, deleted the original image from Photobucket and then uploaded the new version before I posted it here, but it's still there (although it doesn't show up in the PB preview) :ugh:

A teensy clue. In case you haven't noticed, there's a reason for no front view that may help!!

[Ridge Runner]

I guessed that was because of the V-tail!

Edit: Argus engine?

[SincoTC]

Regarding the tail, you guess correctly, but it's not an Argus!

Aircooled inline engine, not German, it switched manufacturer at about the same time as this aircraft was built.

Edit: Clue time!

The engine was not built in the same country as the airframe and the airframe's designers took as a starting point someone else's existing and agile sailplane that itself went on to established a world speed record.

[skytrain10]

Evening (or should I say morning) Trevor. Not in my glider/motor-glider book. I notice you didn't answer Martin's question about it being European.....so Russian maybe? Is that a Walter engine?

[Karlark]

I believe you are right that it is Russian, Ken.

It appears to be a: Мотопланер "РИИГА-2" ("Рекорд")

Edit in English: Powered glider "RIIGA-2" (the "Record")

[SincoTC]

Yes Ken, it is Russian, not sure if the engine, an M-332 was built by Walter as the manufacturing rights were transferred to Avia in 1964 and the aircraft was constructed in the period '63-65.

Karlark is spot on, it is the RIIGA-2 "Record"; based on the Antonov A-13 aerobatic glider, great detective work :D:D!!

Karlark has requested an Open House :ok:

[Noyade]

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7830/img143pg.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/i/img143pg.jpg/)

(Just got to dash and get some Indian for tea...back soon.)

[sabredog]

Boulton Paul Sidestrand/Overstrand?

[Noyade]

Getting a lot of "Database Error" alerts, so I better be quick.

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia-86/image.php?type=dberrorDatabase error Your control Sabredog! The Sidestrand. :ok:

[sabredog]

Thank you, Noyade.
Open House

[Karlark]

Good Morning.... afternoon, or evening. :)

Here's one to try;

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii20/mudflaps_2008/49-4.jpg

[Flying Bull]

Hi,
first thought it could be a Fieseler Storch
or may be an Aero L 60 Brigadyr?
Greetings Flying Bull

[Ridge Runner]

Serb/Yugoslavian?

Edit: it looks like an all-moving tail?

[Karlark]

Hello FB, It does look "Storchie", it was meant to have the same purpose.
Not a Fieseler or Aero, though.

Hi RR, Not Serb / Yugoslavian... West, further West....
I do think it is a one piece tail.

[Ridge Runner]

I'm guessing Spanish or French. I don't reckon from the Americas?

[Karlark]

It could be American. ;)

[Ridge Runner]

More recent than it appears????

[SincoTC]

Morning Karlark,

Is that a Bellanca YO-50 ??

Open House please if correct as my lunch break's over now

[Karlark]

3 prototypes were built within the same timeframe of the Fieseler Storch production.

That oughtta narrow it down more. :)

Edit: Morning SincoTC, The Bellanca YO-50 it is. :ok:

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii20/mudflaps_2008/4561487719_64e61a9e66_z.jpg

Open House per SincoTC

[Ridge Runner]

It had me fooled! A nice challenge!

[SincoTC]

Coffee time and still OH, so I'll take it back!

I will only be able to monitor occasionally 'till after work, but will leave light on.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC_wtf167.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

oo... oo... ooo... I know it, it know it... but I forgotten!!! :(

[Karlark]

Google "paddle wing aircraft", RR. In the images It should give you the The Rohrbach Cyclogyro: 1933

Edit: Make that the Platt’s Cyclogyro. Open house if correct.

[SincoTC]

Nice tip Karlark, but it's not a Rohrbach Cyclogyro :p

Edit: I see you've recognised the different tail shape :ok:

It is the Platt Cyclogyro

Karlark had control

Edit2: Bugger; he's gone and requested Open House

Edit3: Now RR has gone too, I'm all alone :{ :{ but at least I can go home now :)

[Karlark]

Sorry to run earlier Sinco, but I was tasked with an urgent helical auger inquiry request at work, right after the cyclogyro conundrum! How weird is that? :p

This should be an easy one if anyone is around;

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii20/mudflaps_2008/20-5.png

Edit: G'nite, out.

[Noyade]

G'day Karlark.

easy one if anyone is aroundNot a lot of activity when the UK goes to sleep, eh? :) Yours must be the PZL-Warszawa PZL-130TC-1 Orlick?...

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4079/img153t.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/img153t.jpg/)

[Karlark]

G'day Noyade, yes it is indeed the PZL-130 Orlik. :ok:

Open House as per Noyade's request.

[MReyn24050]

List updated.

[Ridge Runner]

I'll withdraw my latest - its been on before! Sorry!!! :O

[Ridge Runner]

Come on boys! We really aren't doing Heikki justice!!!! RR

[SincoTC]

Hi Martin,

Sorry mate, I've been up to my eyes in it today, I looked in at afternoon coffee break and saw about three lights on I recognised and thought I might find a challenge up when I finished work, but it seems not.

Thanks once again to Mel for his great efforts in maintaining the lists :ok:!

It look like Mel's post may have been a timely reminder eh Martin :p, (at least you realised before some bugger pointed it out) :)

Got another mate?

Edit: I see your light is out, so I guess you haven't. I've got to be heading off home soon, but will try and sort a challenge out before I go, or at least as soon as I get home. But in the meantime, if there are any lurkers out there, it still is an Open House!

[SincoTC]

As promised, this should be an easy one (two possible correct answers)!

Just goin to post an ehxaust if nobody beats me to it and then I'm off home, I will be back in about forty minutes or so, don't all rush :)!!

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC_wtf168.jpg

[diesel addict]

I think that is the Gloster "Gormless" - as christened by Bill Waterton

Cannot remember the Fxx/xx number

If correct OH

[SincoTC]

I guess that'll do DA, I was really after the two official names but thirty second on Goggle would give em :p so it's yours mate!

It is the Gloster E.1/44 or GA-2 Ace, and obviously not much liked by Bill Waterton !!

diesel addict has declared an Open House :ok:

[diesel addict]

SinoTC -

I have just found my battered copy of Waterton's "The Quick and the Dead"
(paperback - 2/6d) - Page 10 - Prologue


" The E1/44, looking curiously frail and ugly, glittered in the pale March sunlight: a tubby, trunkless, silver-winged elephant of an aeroplane, the vast air intakes of her jet engine serving as ears. She had no official name, although Ace had been suggested. I called her the Gloster Gormless since she was so heavy for her single Nene engine "

Events seem to have proved him correct.

Back in about 1967 I worked with a chap who, as a rigger, was made redundant from the flight shed at Moreton Valence when Gloster folded up.

He had a similar opinion of Waterton as a miner might have of Margaret Thatcher.........

Personally, I re-read the last chapter every so often in the vain hope things might have improved.

Best Wishes
DA

[Noyade]

Here's another...

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/1423/img144u.jpg (http://img545.imageshack.us/i/img144u.jpg/)

[SincoTC]

Coffee break, I see your light's on Graeme; enjoy the film??

This looks French?

Tail's too pointy for a Dewoitine, looks more like an ANF-Mureaux 11summat ??

BTW, our email server is down, so if I owe you a reply, it won't be 'til Monday :)

[Noyade]

ANF-Mureaux 11summatSorry for the delay Trevor. Couldn't find where I got it from! :) I have it as the Mureaux M 117 R.B2

Your control mate.

BTW, our email server is down, so if I owe you a reply(Got'em thanks mate. I agree with the British answer...)

[SincoTC]

Fair swap mate, thanks! I'm back at work now but will try and put something up shortly.

Couldn't find where I got it from!

I just did that too with the Florov and checking which one it was and now I remember it's on my laptop at home :O

Edit: It only went down a few hours ago, it was if you'd made a reply to mine that I would normally acknowledge!

Edit2: Just trying desperately to find something that not on Mel's list, have you seen the third line down? :)

[Noyade]

have you seen the third line down?

Bugger, sorry bout that! I only looked under "M". :(

[SincoTC]

Bugger, sorry bout that!

No prob's mate, we've all done it!! Did you check who got it though?:E

Gotta head back to the workshop for a while, otherwise I'd have a look for your tightly cut orifice on the other thread!! Ooops that sound a bit rude or something a proctologist would say :)!! I will check back periodically!

Here we are then:

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC-wtf169.jpg

[Noyade]

HAL HJT-16 Mk.2 Kiran...?

[SincoTC]

Just finished an edit above!! No need to check back now, you're good mate :D

It is the HAL HJT-16 Mk.2 Kiran

Noyade has control

[Noyade]

Thanks Trevor.

Next...

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1475/211tui.jpg (http://img809.imageshack.us/i/211tui.jpg/)

your tightly cut orifice

Yes, as Austin Powers would say, "very tite". I cropped an 'outer ring'. :)

[Noyade]

French.......

[Kitbag]

I was thinking Italian, but how about SUD-EST SE161 Languedoc?

[Noyade]

Sorry mate, not the Languedoc. This one is twin-engined.

[Karlark]

I'll bite. Looks like a Caudron C.570 Kangourou.

[Noyade]

I'll bite.

And severed the carotid! :)

Caudron C.570 Kangourou. :ok:

Caudron C.570 Kangourou (http://www.airwar.ru/enc/cww2/c570.html)

Your control Karlark.

[Karlark]

Thanks Noyade. :)

Here's the next challenge;

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii20/mudflaps_2008/50-5.jpg

[Noyade]

I watched Contagion last night Karlark...

Contagion (2011) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1598778/)

I noticed Minnesota was one of the first places to be devastated by the virus. Glad you survived mate! :)

Italian Breda 82?

[Noyade]

Italian Breda 82?

Forget that.

Piaggio P-32?

[Karlark]

:ooh: better stay indoors for awhile just in case.

Piaggio P.32 is correct!

Noyade has control.

[Noyade]

Thanks Karlark. The silhouette barrel is nearly empty...

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5224/img124v.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/img124v.jpg/)

[sycamore]

Dornier Do 27

[Noyade]

It is Sycamore. :) Your control.

[skytrain10]

Seems we have a stalled thread. As it's been nearly 24 hours Open House should apply. And with that in mind, let's get things moving again:)

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/abebcbdd.jpg

[SincoTC]

Good morning Ken,

Not many about over the weekend!! Sycamore's light was on when I awarded him the Challenge thread, so I asked him if he had a new one to offer (and reminded him about this one), but it went out (timed?) without answer a little later. He had been back and requested OH on Challenge when I checked later in the afternoon and again his light was still on, so I guessed he was in the process of preparing something for here, but it seems not, next time maybe, but after nearly twenty four hours, I totally agree with your decision to carry on :ok:!

I think I see evidence of guns in the front and top views, so it's a fighter? Mid twenties/early thirties? Continental Europe?

Just off to work now, going to be a busy day but will try and look in later:)

[Noyade]

Morning!

Gordou-Leseurre GL-410....?

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/509/img160c.jpg (http://img831.imageshack.us/i/img160c.jpg/)

[skytrain10]

Evening Graeme.

Gordou-Leseurre GL-410....? That's the one:ok:

Yes, saw that it was very quiet...unfortunately I was too busy at the back end of last week to look in. When I finally managed on Saturday night we were pending the next challenge from sycamore.

Noyade has control.

[Noyade]

Thanks Ken.

Don't know a lot about it so don't grill me. :) But I did find a photo of it on the web.

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/8551/img164w.jpg (http://img849.imageshack.us/i/img164w.jpg/)

[skytrain10]

Looks fast mate:ok:

[Noyade]

From 1981? I think mate.
Participated in the "LBF" efficiency rates.
Averaged 234mph over 500 miles on only 20 gallons of fuel.
Designer was well known for sailplanes and died in 2004.

[Noyade]

Looks fast matehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Aerofiles says 298mph max. No pic there though....:(

[Lightning Mate]

Evening Graeme.

Did that designer die in a sailpane crash?

[Noyade]

Morning David! Used your "Get out of Gaol Card?" :)

Internet says heart failure...he was 80.

[Lightning Mate]

PM Graeme shortly.

[Noyade]

Surname was an uncommon one, "Smith".

[skytrain10]

Smith AJ-2?

[Noyade]

Smith AJ-2

:ok:

Back to you Ken! :)

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/156/img165e.jpg (http://img703.imageshack.us/i/img165e.jpg/)

[skytrain10]

Thanks Graeme....it was Smith that gave it a way!!:)

Here's the next one...

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/74d1ea86.jpg

[Noyade]

American?
Beech?

[Ridge Runner]

Beechcraft A36 Bonanza modified with the Tradewind Turbine's turboprop conversion

Is it this one, mate?

[skytrain10]

Beechcraft A36 Bonanza modified with the Tradewind Turbine's turboprop conversion Not that one, but it is converted from a Beech, but not a Bonanza. Looks like the first one flew in 2003 so too new for Aerofiles

[Noyade]

but it is converted from a Beech,

So, no longer called a Beech product, something completely different?

[skytrain10]

So, no longer called a Beech product, something completely different? Correct....the conversion is somewhat more radical than some.

[Lightning Mate]

PT6 or Allison?

[Ridge Runner]

It looks like a Piper with a Beech wing?

[Noyade]

OK. But if it was Frankenfurted from a Beech light-plane, say a Sierra for example, would wiki in the variant section make mention of this "radical" conversion?

[skytrain10]

Lot's of questions:
PT6 or Allison? Neither LM...Walter turboprop.
It looks like a Piper with a Beech wing? No, the basic airframe is Beech, fuselage, wings and tail.
would wiki in the variant section make mention of this "radical" conversion?
Can't see that wiki mentions this at all, either under Beech, or the manufacturer that does the conversion.

Remember what I said about this being a more radical conversion.....:)

[Lightning Mate]

Is this conversion, by any chance, a conversion of a piston twin to a single turboprop.

[Ridge Runner]

Is it the Viper?????

[Noyade]

Is it the Viper????? Saw that, but isn't that a Russian (Technoavia) Piper conversion?

We're still looking for an American manufacturer....right?

[Ridge Runner]

Forget that :( That was a Navajo!

[Ridge Runner]

Nah, I reckon its NZ or smething like that

[Noyade]

too new for Aerofiles

American Ken?

[skytrain10]

Is this conversion, by any chance, a conversion of a piston twin to a single turboprop. It is indeed:ok: Incidentally the aircraft it was converted from remains in production today after 50 years!

American Ken? Yep.

[Noyade]

Did it start out as a Beech Duke?

[Ridge Runner]

A Baron conversion, mate?

[Lightning Mate]

There is a Baron converted in this way and called the Walker Hester WH4 Harpoon. :\

[skytrain10]

Did it start out as a Beech Duke? Not a Duke.
A Baron conversion, mate? Yes:ok:

But....

Walker Hester WH4 Harpoon Well, I have it as the Hall Wendell WH-4 Harpoon but I'm sure its one and the same LM:ok:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/ca2a01b3.jpg

LM has control.

[Ridge Runner]

Very nice, Ken!

[Lightning Mate]

Very nice, Ken!

Wasn't it just!

Here we go again then.....

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/clockback.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

A potential military trainer, David?

[skytrain10]

Or a homebuild?

[skytrain10]

Dorna D-139 Blue Bird?

[Lightning Mate]

Not a military trainer as far as I know Martin, and not a homebuilt Ken.

edit:
Dorna D-139 Blue Bird?

Remove the question mark Ken. How did you get that so quickly!!

Back to you. :ok:

[skytrain10]

Thanks David.
Remove the question mark Ken. How did you get that so quickly!! The tail shape is quite unusual...it just rang a bell somewhere! Then it was a quick check of a certain magazine (had to be quick because Graeme has the same one!).....and bingo!

Next one:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/362e445d.jpg

Single prop at the front didn't show up in the process.

[Lightning Mate]

Does it have a trigger?

(that's my definition of a real aeroplane BTW)

[skytrain10]

Does it have a trigger? In that case it falls into your definition:ok: It can fire things and drop things:)

[Lightning Mate]

...can or could...?

[skytrain10]

...can or could...? Sorry could, past tense.

[Ridge Runner]

The Fairey Spearfish!

Edit: Open house when declared correct! :E

[Lightning Mate]

Nice one!...

[skytrain10]

The Fairey Spearfish! That's the one Martin:ok:


http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/1460cc2e.jpg

Ridge Runner has declared Open House

[Ridge Runner]

cancel the OH! I'll be back!

[Ridge Runner]

Here you go:

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/peach38336/pprune071111A.gif

[skytrain10]

Arado Ar.231?

[Ridge Runner]

That's the one, Ken!! The reason for the odd wing being:

http://www.luftarchiv.de/flugzeuge/arado/ar231.jpg

you have CONTROL

[skytrain10]

Had wondered about that wing...mind you, I like it....a flatpack aircraft!

Here's the next one:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/3973c553.gif

[Ridge Runner]

Is that an Anzani, Ken???

[skytrain10]

Is that an Anzani, Ken??? Not an Anzani Martin

[Ridge Runner]

Bristol Swallow mate?

[Lightning Mate]

Any connection with Borel?

[skytrain10]

Bristol Swallow mate? No, and not a British design.

Any connection with Borel? None that I am aware of David.

[Lightning Mate]

Farman Moustique 450 ?

[skytrain10]

Farman Moustique 450 ? Good call mate...yes it is the Farman 450 Moustique:ok:

Your control LM

[Lightning Mate]

Wasn't too bad once I discovered where you probably went......

Continuing with RRs' theme - another floatplane......

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/indoors.jpg

[skytrain10]

A museum exhibit, or a hotel foyer! Looks like a bar in the background?

[Lightning Mate]

I'm allergic to the word "bar" at the moment!

Not a museum as far as I know - possible the factory.......

[skytrain10]

Going to have to go very soon....another French machine maybe?

[Lightning Mate]

Not French mate.

[SincoTC]

Good evening David, or maybe good morning :)

Glad to see a certain icon's gone!

Looks like it's been a good day on the thread, been too busy to participate, but did manage a peek or two during breaks!

Is your latest the first Loening M-2 Kitten fitted with the ABC Gnat twin for the US Navy, the floats look different to the photos on the web, but I suppose they could be semi-retracted to allow fitting aboard a submarine??

[skytrain10]

Evening...following on from Trevor's post, I would be tempted to say the Loening LS-1 or M-81 rather than the M-2. I only say that as the the M-2 appears to have rigging above the wings, whereas the aforementioned do not.

[Lightning Mate]

Good morning all. :)

There are different references as to which Loening model this was.

The LS1 appears to have been fitted with the longer flat Richardson floats.

However, it is indeed the Kitten, so I am happy to award the win to either Ken or Trevor - perhaps the first one of you to log in on the thread would be the fairest way.

[SincoTC]

Mornng David and thanks,

I thought it was the Kitten as the silhouete just seemed to cry out "Small"; the engines in the other similar model have ten times the power!

I'm just checking if the next one I have isn't on the list, then I'll put it up!

Here is the next Challenge! Not very good I'm afraid, but the original was small and low-res :O

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC-wtf170.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

Five minute coffee break.

A wing warp jobber?

[SincoTC]

Five minute coffee break

I've got ten :p!

It certainly looks like a wing-warper; but then, according to my source, it was the first of four aeroplanes built in its home country by the same pair of brothers!

[Lightning Mate]

Blimey!! - I swear I heard a pin drop.

It's a little difficult to tell, but is this shoulder wing pylon-supported?

Two brothers eh. Just where to start - France circa 1913?

Henri and Maurice Farman?

[SincoTC]

'Tiz indeed quiet today, not seen any "names" on the board, hope it's nuffink I've said :ooh:!

The brothers are said to have followed the lines of the Blériot IX, so that fits in with what you say. They built this a bit sooner than you surmise, after destroying their Voisin biplane. They then built three other aircraft before fading into history, they are not in any way remembered in the manner of the Farman brothers!

Don't start in France, another continent another hemisphere, now famed for its clear dry atmosphere (some of it hasn't had rain for many, many years)

[Lightning Mate]

Omeegawd!

Not near Graeme is it?

[Lightning Mate]

Are you by any chance talking about Chile?

[SincoTC]

I am indeed mate, that's where they're building all the new big telescopes (up on the Atacama Desert)!

I guess that the brothers had their aerodrome rather nearer to sea level though!

[Lightning Mate]

So, the Atacama desert.

Looking at that area right now, but little coming up. :\

[SincoTC]

but little coming up

Indeed :E!! See my edit to last post, it may help you to know where to look ;)

[Lightning Mate]

Thanks mate.

Unfortunately it's gozome time. To be continued.........

[skytrain10]

Hate to come in when someone else has done all the work, but I think this is the Copetta Monoplane “El Burrito” of 1911. Chile does tend to make the search that little bit easier:)

[Lightning Mate]

To be continued.........

Alas not!

Twenty minutes ago looked at Breguets.................................

[SincoTC]

Evening Gentlemen!

Last check on progress before going home!

Sorry David; Ken has got to it first! It is the Copetta Monoplane “El Burrito” of 1911

Skytrain10 has control :ok:

[SincoTC]

Twenty minutes ago looked at Breguets.................................

Sorry mate, but if you'd "Copy and pasted" one of my answers into goggle, it would have returned two Breguet hits on the first page (not on the images though) :E!

My Challenge intake is feeling lonely, Not the daddy of them all (although the Whittle wasn't really either), mine has a reasonably creditable title to be the daddy of at least a class of jet aircraft!

Catchya later :ok:

[skytrain10]

Thanks Trevor....a quick search Chile Monoplane 1911 (after trying 1912) revealed the answer.

Here's the next offering:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/26fa7d6a.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

Morning Ken.

Do I see an Anzani?

[skytrain10]

Morning David....not an Anzani.

To help move things along, aircraft is European and designed for a special purpose.

[SincoTC]

Morning Ken,

A hasty coffee break and a quick question.

It seems to have that "Mailplane" look about it, is that worth pursuing?

Try and get back later but very hectic!

[Lightning Mate]

mmmm....

With a pilot on board methinks the CG would be quite a way aft, so I think something must have been carried forward of the cockpit.

TC has suggested mail - any future in ambulance?

[skytrain10]

It seems to have that "Mailplane" look about it, is that worth pursuing? I see what you mean, but no, not worth pursuing that particular line. Although it could have had a civil application the aircraft was designed for and used by the military.

[Lightning Mate]

A wild thought.

Did that forward fuselage contain a tank for liquid?

I'm intrigued by the pipe that runs from that area to the engine.

[skytrain10]

Did that forward fuselage contain a tank for liquid? Nope, but it was made that way to accommodate something forward of the cockpit.

I'm intrigued by the pipe that runs from that area to the engine. I was too, but so far have not found any reference to it. Perhaps a product of the design of the forward fuselage as a result of what it had to contain?

[Lightning Mate]

This is going to be a bad day!

Was that forward area pressurised, or perhaps heated?

I did previously suggest ambulance.

[skytrain10]

any future in ambulance? Sorry, miised your edit David. Yes, it was deisgned as an air ambulance, with accommodation for a stretcher patient forward of the cockpit:ok:

Edit: Was that forward area pressurised, or perhaps heated? No reference to this that I can see.

[Lightning Mate]

Ah....- crossed posts.

[SincoTC]

I think it may be the Bloch MB-81 ??

Edited to say Bloch MB.80 Prototype, seems the 81 had closed cockpit according to Wikipedia!

Edit2 Could be either it seems from an image search :ugh:

Sorry, but it'll have to be an Open House if it is correct, as I got to go into a meeting in fifteen minutes and dunno when I'll get out!!

[Lightning Mate]

Rats..............

[skytrain10]

I think it may be the Bloch MB-81 ?? It is indeed Trevor, well done:ok: Although there is reference to the MB.81 having a closed cockpit, that does not appear to be the case as there are photo's of different aircraft all having open cockpits.

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/59331b03.jpg

Incidentally this was Bloch's first production aircraft, 20 having been built, including one used by the RAF.

SincoTC has declared Open House

[Lightning Mate]

I have an interesting one, but have to go out for an hour so better not.

[Lightning Mate]

Back now to find no takers.

Are you still lurking Ken?

Not the best quality I'm afraid.......

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/wed-2.jpg

[skytrain10]

Yes, I am lurking...rocket power?

[Lightning Mate]

The first version was, the second proposal was liquid fuel.

[skytrain10]

Is it the Golovin IVS?

[Lightning Mate]

Sure is mate - back to you. :ok:

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/4b4089ec_vbattach88870.jpg

[skytrain10]

Thanks David

Here we go:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/5e0353eb.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

Motor glider?

[skytrain10]

Motor glider? It is indeed :ok:

[Spit161]

Fournier RF4?
Open house if correct.

cheers,
Jake.

[Father Dick Byrne]

I looked at all the Fourniers, but there appear to be several differences... The transparency curve, springing of the outriggers, pitot probe (?) and fin profile being just a few...!

That said, there's the usual orientation problem..!

[skytrain10]

Fournier RF4?Not the RF-4 Jake, but it IS a Fournier:ok:

I think the indentation on the rudder is either a deflection or a distortion of the original photo itself. In a 3-view I have just found, the trailing edge is straight.

Edit to say, having found a further photo I can confirm there is no indentation and it cannot be rudder deflection in that position, so I have replaced the silhouette with the indentation removed.

[Father Dick Byrne]

RF3 perhaps?

[skytrain10]

Not the RF-3 either!

Going off line now for some hours. If one of you thinks they have the answer and another agrees, please move on to the next challenge :ok:

[Father Dick Byrne]

RF1!

(took a bit of finding and I strongly advise you not to do an image search under 'Fournier'... Another M. Fournier gave his name to a very unfortunate form of gangrene...).

[Karlark]

I agree, RF1;

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii20/mudflaps_2008/RF120Air20Pic20Jan2061b.jpg

[skytrain10]

Just a quick check before hitting the hay....yes, just to confirm it is the Fournier RF-01:ok:

Father Dick Byrne, welcome to SC, and you have control.:)

[Lightning Mate]

Blimey Ken - posting at 0207!! What time zone is Wales on!!

Father Dick Byrne welcome.

Do you have anything for us?

[Father Dick Byrne]

Please forgive my nascent skills in photoshop...

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/5585/scfdb12edited1.jpg

The landing gear is not shown...

[Lightning Mate]

Morning FDB. :)

I assume we're looking at a jet.

Is the wing cranked or is that a rather large probe?

[Father Dick Byrne]

Good morning...

It's a probe.

[Lightning Mate]

Good grief!

Then either it's a big probe or, perhaps more likely, a very small aeroplane.

The fin shape seems rather dated - was there an unmanned version?

[Noyade]

Morning.

The mighty Pika! :ok:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/302/img170p.jpg (http://img708.imageshack.us/i/img170p.jpg/)

[Father Dick Byrne]

Yes, the first manned prototype for the Jindivik (the second one had some noticeable differences).

Noyade has control.

[Lightning Mate]

Evening Graeme. :ok:

Red or white tonight?

[Noyade]

Thanks Father. Been a little busy lately and no silhouettes...open house. :)

Red or white tonight?

Black...tea. :ok:

[Lightning Mate]

Continuing the entertainment...

I know you're lurking dunnunda mate...

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/thurs-2.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

Piper??? PA-11ish???

[Lightning Mate]

Not a Piper Martin, and not from the USA.

[Karlark]

Good morning.

Is it a FMA 20 El Boyero?

[Ridge Runner]

If it is, Karlark, we've had it before - I posted it! :)

[Lightning Mate]

:D:D:D

All yours Karlark.:ok:

Martin, I cannot find it listed under FMA or IA. :\

[Lightning Mate]

Russian?....

[Karlark]

Yes, it is....

[Ridge Runner]

We had this one before too! :)

Martin, I cannot find it listed under FMA or IA. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wibble.gif 25th May 2010

[Karlark]

Oops :ugh:. I see now it is on the list under a different designation. I'll will declare open house instead.

Edit: Challenge aircraft post deleted. It was the Sukhoi Su-12... aka Sukhoi RK on the list.

[Ridge Runner]

Sukhoi Su-12???

[Lightning Mate]

Maybe therefore better to delete your post #3994 to avoid confusion for anyone joining the thread.


25th May 2010

What's it listed under Martin?

[Lightning Mate]

Post another one Karlark unless RR can take the OH.