Heikkis' Silhouette Challenge

[skytrain10]

Cheers Graeme, enjoy your day. Something else to think about....the airline that operated this aircraft flew it for 10 years until the late 50's. The airline concerned is still in existance today.

[SincoTC]

Morning Ken,

A quiet day yesterday mate!! I was busy, busy all day plus dog/house sitting. At least I've cracked the new Mac/router setup and can get access from wherever I am now, so will try and participate today :)

Is your challenge on Wiki ?? Manufactured by a well known company? I note you say it was operated by an airline that's still in existance, what role did it have in that airline? Is it still "owned" by the airline, still flying or in a museum?

the aircraft is loosely connected to a not dissimilar looking American aircraft, that was used by the owner of the challenge aircraft pre WWII

Was that owner the aforesaid airline or an individual connected with it (founder/CEO etc)?

A lot of questions I'm afraid, but it does seem a trifle elusive at first glance!

Off to walk the dog now, catchya later :ok:

[skytrain10]

Morning Trevor

Lot's of answers for you:
The manufacturer and aircraft gets a mention on Wiki, but no information.
Not a well known company but I'm sure you've heard of them.
It's now museum owned on static display. No longer current on its countries registry.
As far as I can see both the challenge aircraft and the US aircraft that it was loosely based on were both owned and operated by this particular airline.

Hope you're looking after the doggies:ok:

[SincoTC]

Thanks for the answers Ken!

manufacturer and aircraft gets a mention on Wiki, but no information

Lovely, that's just how I like 'em, but only when it's my challenge!! :\:\

Does the "no information" bit apply to the manufacturer as well as the challenge aircraft ?

You say that it and its US predecessor were operated by the airline, was that for passenger carrying and if so, how many?

Any point in looking in the "Fright Archives" with its attendant rise in blood-pressure :)

[skytrain10]

Some info on the manufacturer, but the aircraft gets a mention in "red" if you see what I mean. There is information on wiki on at least one other aircraft that was produced by the same manufacturer.

It's in Flight but no picture that I can see. Accommodates 5 passengers. Several pictures on the web, in part of course because its "current" in a museum. The previously mentioned US aircraft was a 4 seater.

[MReyn24050]

Wideröe C.5 Polar perhaps?

[SincoTC]

:D:D:D:D:D

[skytrain10]

Wideröe C.5 Polar perhaps? Good enough Mel (I had it as the Honningstad C-5 Polar):ok:. Specifically designed for Wideroe's for their domestic operations in northern Norway. Pre-war they had operated the Stinson Reliant, upon which it was loosely based. Just the one built (LN-DBW) which Wideroe's operated between 1948 and 1958, and finally crashed in 1971. It is now on display in the Norsk Luftfahrtmuseum in Bodo.

Here's a link: http://www.luftfart.museum.no/Engelsk/Exhibitions/C5.htm

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/20dd0730.jpg

Mel has control.

[MReyn24050]

Thanks Ken here is the next one:-
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Silhouettequiz101.jpg

[evansb]

The canopy looks familiar. Is this aircraft on the "What Cockpit?" list ?

[MReyn24050]

Is this aircraft on the "What Cockpit?" list ? No,Bri. I know the aircraft design was made but I am not sure if the build was ever completed.

[skytrain10]

Hi Mel...sorry not been around much today. There is some similarity to the Wing Derringer. Is there any connection...thinking maybe the proposed D-2M military version?

[MReyn24050]

There is some similarity to the Wing Derringer. Is there any connection Not that I am aware.This aircraft was designed in Europe and was intended for amateur construction. At the time of publication of details one aircraft was under construction whether it got completed I am unsure.

[Noyade]

Evening.

French Mel?

[Noyade]

The French Jurca M.J.6...? Based on this illustration which appears to be the "Pinocchio" version...

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4161/img237gz.jpg (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/img237gz.jpg/)

[skytrain10]

Morning Graeme...that was a good find :ok:. Totally new one on me.. logical there should be one (as there is an MJ.5 and a MJ.7).

[Noyade]

(I had it as the Honningstad C-5 Polar)http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Nice challenge mate. I was never close to solving that. :(

[MReyn24050]

It is indeed the Jurca M.J.6.:ok: The Drawing was in the 1965-66 Edition of Jane's All the World's aircraft. I have not been able to find any evidence that it was actually built and flown

You have control Graeme.

[Noyade]

Thanks Mel. Another project...

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8974/48799715.jpg (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/48799715.jpg/)

[SincoTC]

Evening Graeme,

Coffee time here, and soon getting on for bedtime there :) !

I think that project was the Avro Canada CF-103 ? A follow on for the Canuck that was abandoned in favour of the ill-fated Arrow!

I'm off into a meeting soon and then I'm in the workshop most of the day, So Open House please if correct, sorry!!

Out dog walking last night and missed your Valkyrie Challenge, a favourite of mine too :ok:

[Noyade]

I'm off into a meeting soon

Suggest more coffee breaks at the 'new business' point of the meeting. :)

It is the CF-103. Open House.

[Ridge Runner]

VVVVVVVVeeerrryyyy quiet...and I've been too busy to post one!:( I'm travelling now so will call in when I can.... Off to luvverly BOM tomorrow... See ya! RR

[skytrain10]

Yes, just logged in and all very quiet. Safe trip Martin.

Let's try this one then as its OH:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/4bed7d73.jpg

[evansb]

Well it looks like a Piaggio Avanti..

[skytrain10]

Well it looks like a Piaggio Avanti.. It does Brian, but it's not. Significantly smaller, a 4 seater. As far as I can see it is still in the project/development stage.

[SincoTC]

Evening Ken,

Is that the SkyShark TP-4 ??

[skytrain10]

Is that the SkyShark TP-4 ?? That's the one Trevor:ok:

SkyShark TP-4 four seat twin engine kitplane - intro (http://www.aerovisions.com/skyshark.html)

SincoTC has control

[SincoTC]

Thanks Ken,

Here's the next one!

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC-wtf177.jpg

[Noyade]

G'day Trevor.

European?
Not many built?
Pre-war?

[SincoTC]

Hi Graeme,

European?
Not many built?
Pre-war?

Correct on all three counts :ok:

[skytrain10]

Hi Trevor...Hopfner HS5/28A?

[Noyade]

European?Somewhere in Queensland?

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/6268/mapaustraliaeurope.jpg (http://img560.imageshack.us/i/mapaustraliaeurope.jpg/)

[SincoTC]

Spot on Ken :D

It is the Austrian Hopfner HS5/28A, a second version of vthe original light multipurpose aircraft, built for Switzerland and equipped with an uprated engine Walter NZ85 85 hp.

skytrain10 has control :ok:

[SincoTC]

Somewhere in Queensland

That's about right mate! Show-off :p!!

[skytrain10]

Thanks Trevor....maintaining the theme:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/b1bcebf5.jpg

Hi Graeme....
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/49083909.jpg

Now you know where I live:)

[Noyade]

Sorry Ken, is that the UK? So small, I can hardly see it... :)

Now, seriously, is yours American/USA?

[Noyade]

Coz I was thinking Vought?

maintaining the theme:Or did you mean we're still in Europe - Austria - Queensland?

[skytrain10]

Sorry Ken, is that the UK? So small, I can hardly see it...
Cheeky....looking at the map it looks like the weather here should be a lot warmer than it is at present:)
Or did you mean we're still in Europe - Austria - Queensland? Yep, well Europe anyway!

[Noyade]

Good luck Trevor. You know Europe better than me mate! :)
Gotta go, night guys.

[skytrain10]

All quiet...Siemens Halske engine, 1920's design.
Using Graeme's map above the country of origin falls largely within Queensland!

[SincoTC]

Evening Ken,

First look in of the day, I didn't have a chance to look for this last night and I find its still here, so another quiet day by the look of things!

I think it's an Albatros L 68A ?

[skytrain10]

I think it's an Albatros L 68A ? That's the one Trevor:ok:

Yes it really does appear very quiet at present. Hopefully its just a lull.

SincoTC has control

[SincoTC]

Thanks Ken,

Yes, hopefully just a lull :)

Something even older!

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC-wtf178.jpg

[Noyade]

Evening gents. Too slow I see, just finished a kit plane, although this looks like a hammer and nail job as well. Dare I say it, European Trevor? :)

[SincoTC]

G'day Graeme,

Yes mate, it is European :)

[Noyade]

Lots of questions here mate.

Parasol wing with another wing between the undercarriage legs? Pilot somewhere behind the engine in a fuselage that appears to be supported between the wings with wires/struts?

Finally, did she fly?

(Long shot, but Ken had "Ellehammer" in the cryptic thread recently - I wonder if...)

[SincoTC]

Lots of questions here mate

That'e a pretty good analysis mate! The lower wing joins the triangular wheel fairings, the top wing has only a single post from each undercarriage fairing to support it, and yes the fuselage is supported entirely by the wire bracing, now have a closer look and see an unusual feature that will make it easy :E

Did she fly??, there's no good evidence to say she did!

Nothing to do with cryptic clues!

[Noyade]

now have a closer look and see an unusual feature that will make it easy http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif

Dunno mate. Two engines? Pusher-Puller arrangement?

[SincoTC]

Two engines? Pusher-Puller arrangement?

Two engines? yes (you can see them), but only one prop as you can see. The designer claimed that one engine could be cut in flight, but seeing that it never flew :rolleyes: !

[Noyade]

Well, no idea mate, as usual. I first thought it was a prehistoric version of the Fieseler Fi-333 where the long undercarriage allows you to pick-up/deposit a load, but I guess the bottom wing would prevent that.

Gotta go. Don't stay up too late mate...you've got an early start tomorrow, I'm sure. ;)

[SincoTC]

Not too early a start tomorrow, I don't have to get up 'til five-thirty ;)!

Have a Good day mate, catchya later :ok:

[SincoTC]

Just looking in at coffee time to see what's going on! Nothing much it seems :(, so a little clue to add to my previous hints, it had a quite an unusual (possibly unique) engine layout with two Gnomes and a single four-bladed propeller!

Hi Martin, I see you on the list; where are you now, still away?

[frontlefthamster]

The Coanda 1911 perhaps? OH if correct please.

[SincoTC]

No perhaps frontlefthamster, it is the 1911 Coanda Biplane :D

Coanda's second aircraft which appeared at the Concours Militaire (at Reims), where it raised some sharp dispute even to this day, it shows what remains... and what was given up from his first machine of 1910 (which appeared on SC, page 30 in 2008). What was given up: the turbopropeller ("turbo-propulseur" (sic)) and the wooden wing-skinning, as well as the wooden fences to ease the regular fluid flow. What remains: the aerofoil section, the structure, and the general shape of the fuselage. All very interesting, but built somewhat differently.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/Coanda1911.jpg


Links below to the earlier "Jet" of 1910 and very interesting information of the man himself. His aeroplanes may be long forgotten, but they pioneered many new ideas and the discovery of the "Coanda Effect" will give his name a degree of immortality in the field or fluid dynamics!

Coand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coand%C4%83-1910)

Henri Coand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Coand%C4%83)

frontlefthamster has requested an Open House :ok:

[Ridge Runner]

Hi Trevor!

Two motors driving a single prop through a diff?

Yes, still on the move. Arrived Mumbai this morning at 01:00 and leaving for home tonight! :)

RR

[SincoTC]

Hi Martin,

You're quite right about the diff, but just too late as I expect you'll have seen by now!!

I've just finished the construction and packing of two new machines that are off to Mumbai tomorrow with two of our guys (or one if the other's visa doesn't turn up later today :uhoh:)!!

Have a good trip home mate :ok:

[Ridge Runner]

Wow! Quite a machine!!!!!!

Thanks mate. I touch down at 0700!

[skytrain10]

Unfortunately courtesy of a desperately slow internet today not had the opportunity to look in until now:(
Good call on the Coanda 1911 frontlefthamster....quite an impressive looking aircraft for the period.

Taking advantage of the OH, here's a somewhat different looking machine:
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/e0d72557.jpg

[Noyade]

Evening Ken. Looks like you painstakingly silhouetted the French Givaudan?

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2971/img248h.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/i/img248h.jpg/)

[skytrain10]

Looks like you painstakingly silhouetted the French Givaudan? Well, not painstakingly....just found a suitable image and darkened it over and over, then touched up some of the tatty bits:)

Yes it is of course the rather unsuccessful Givaudin "aircraft: of 1909:ok:.

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/7ee65570.jpg

Noyade has control

[Noyade]

Thanks Ken.

not painstakingly

Good to hear, shouldn't waste too much of life trying to make things black. :)

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7784/img195g.jpg (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/img195g.jpg/)

[skytrain10]

Hi Graeme, is it the Alvarez Polliwagen?

[Noyade]

Nice one mate. I knew you would persist and prevail. :ok:

Your control Ken.

[skytrain10]

Thanks Graeme. persist and prevail. My middle names mate:)

Next one...another American machine.

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/74a2d644.jpg

[SincoTC]

'Artnoon Ken,

Is the the Steen Steenship ??

Just grabbing a quick coffee, so Open House if correct please and if it's still OH at my next break I'll try and sort something out

I see Martin is on the list so welcome home mate!

[skytrain10]

Is the the Steen Steenship ?? That's the one Trevor:ok: Yes, the first aircraft produced by Steen Aero Lab in 1966, better known of course for the Skybolt aerobatic aircraft.

Here's the one and only Steenship, which remains flying today.
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/d57f39d8.jpg

SincoTC has declared Open House.

[SincoTC]

Thanks Ken,

I find that I had one ready after all, so I'll reclaim the OH.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC-wtf179.jpg

[skytrain10]

Afternoon Trevor...busy day so not had an opportunity to look at SC. With certain general similarities to my last challenge, would I be right in thinking this was from the US?

[SincoTC]

Sorry Ken, don't get your hopes up; it's not from the USA and I didn't find it looking for your last one :E


It is also similar to the Steenship in its fortunes :)

[skytrain10]

I didn't find it looking for your last one Oh well, just a thought. So similar fortunes...1 built? European...French possibly. 1950's?

[SincoTC]

Similar fortunes...Only one built, French, 1950's and it is still extant!

[skytrain10]

Is it the Holleville RH1 Bambi? Some differences from the 3-view in the windows, but overall looks similar?

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/4227a505.jpg

[SincoTC]

It looks similar 'coz it is the Holleville RH.1 Bambi :D

The RH.1 Bambi was designed and built by Monsieur Roger Holleville and flown for the first time in 1953. It is a side-by-side two-seat aircraft and was unusual at the time to be among self-build types to make extensive use of synthetic resins and sandwich construction. It was originally intended to make construction plans available to clubs and groups. However, the rather sophisticated design motivated against the acceptance of the Bambi by amateur constructors.

It has visited the United Kingdom to attend light aircraft rallies including at Biggin Hill airport in Kent in 1967. The Bambi is preserved in airworthy condition in the Musee Regional de l'Air at Angers Aerodrome, 20 km north east of the town.

Ir seems that over the years the undercarriage has shed the wheel spats, but I think that the asymmetric glazing (apparent in the top view) is just visible looking through the cockpit in your photo!

skytrain10 has control :ok:

[skytrain10]

Thanks Trevor. Must admit I wasn't paying attention and missed the asymmetric glazing, but as you say, you can see it through the window.

Here's the next one....and yes, that's the pilot in the front cockpit.

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/93e69a77.jpg

[SincoTC]

Hmm, obvious first question has to be is it worth trawling Aerofiles?

Trying to get the perspective sorted in my mind from the two possible attitudes! Judging by the relative size of the spats and the windscreens, I'm thinking the photo used shows the aircraft on the ground and is a three-quarted rear-view, but I'm confused by the undercarriage legs immediatly beneath the pilot?

Edit: second thoughts! Wing-tip "bump" would mean quite a large dihedral and the tip-chord woould need to be wide from that view, so maybe it's viewed from below flying toward us, but still puzzled with that U/C leg?

Off home now, will try and get back later after I've eaten :)

[skytrain10]

Apologies, just took a break for dinner.

You won't find it in Aerofiles...not American.

Perspective....yes, a 3/4 rear view, although the front windscreen is smaller than the rear. That is the starboard wingtip you can see to the rear of the cockpit.

The "extra" undercarriage leg is visible because of the angle of the view, or perhaps I should say that because of the angle of view, the secondary leg on the port u/c blends in to the main leg. It's quite deceptive though:)

[SincoTC]

No apologies needed Ken, got delayed and I'm only just getting mine ready now, dodging in and out of the kitchen, but may as well seek more info to narrow the search, is it mainland European?

The shape of the nose makes me think it's probably later than the classic pre-war sport two-seaters, what's the engine?

[skytrain10]

is it mainland European?Yes

later than the classic pre-war sport two-seaters, what's the engine? Good thinking....it is a post war design. Continental engine.

[Noyade]

Evening gents. Quick "coffee break", without the answer. :)

it is a post war design

Still flying Ken?

[SincoTC]

G'day Greme :),

I'm eating now, so not looking much at the moment.

[skytrain10]

Still flying Ken? Morning Graeme....can't comment for certain on the flying but it is still current on the countries register. Note I said "it"....another of todays "only one built" category:).

Going to break for a while....will check in before I hit the hay.

[Noyade]

so not looking much at the moment.

No mate, I meant me. I'm having a coffee break, but unlike your coffee breaks, I don't have an answer. Watchya eating? :)

[Noyade]

will check in before I hit the hay.

Well, when you do, can you give us a rough time when "it" flew. Cheers. :ok:

[SincoTC]

Didn't answer straight away as I saw your your light had gone out!

Watchya eating?

Steak, minted new-potatoes, green beans, courgette and asparagus :ok:

[skytrain10]

can you give us a rough time when "it" flew First flew in the 1960's. Has a similar name to a 1920's mainland european fighter.

[SincoTC]

Good morning Ken,

First coffee break :ooh: !

Had to abandon the search last nigh as it was an early start this morning :(

It looks to be the Indraero Aero 20 ?

Going to be a busy day, but will play it by ear as there doesn't seem to many about at the moment :{

[skytrain10]

Morning Trevor, it is indeed the Indraero Aero 20 from France:ok: First flown in 1966 this one off French build aircraft remains current on the register today.

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/df44ef16.jpg?t=1323367700

SincoTC has control

[SincoTC]

Morning Ken, evening Graeme :),

I thought this might be about the time to take a peek.

Thanks Ken, a good challenge, now to reverse engineer the answer and find out why I couldm't find it on my wiki searches and refine those :E

Done in haste I'm afraid, but I bet it won't last long with you two around!!

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC_wtf180.jpg

Tick, tock......

[Noyade]

Tick, tockGrumman Super-Duper Tiger?!

G'day by the way. :ok:

Ken, what sort of French name is Indraero? Sounds Chilean? :hmm:

[SincoTC]

Not a Super-Duper Tiger Graeme :)

[Noyade]

Grumman Super-Duper Tiger?!

Sorry, had a few beers. I'll try for the Douglas Skylancer. :(

[Lightning Mate]

Good morning/evening everyone. :)
Sorry for being AWOL for a while. Guess what - I'm working again, but have very limited web access where I am, and no computer. :\

Time to resurrect my laptop.........

Looks like a good call Graeme.

[SincoTC]

Obviously a thinking man's beer!! it is the Douglas XF5D-1 Skylancer :D

Intended as a follow-on to the F4D Skyray. The first flight was on 21 April 1956 and was supersonic; the aircraft proved easy to handle and performed well. After four aircraft had been constructed, however, the Navy cancelled its order. The stated reason was that the aircraft was too similar to the already-ordered F8U Crusader, but it is believed by some historians that politics played as big a part; Douglas was already building a very large proportion of the Navy's planes, and giving them the F5D contract would have made it even closer to monopoly. The project test pilot was Lt.Cmdr Alan B. Shepard Jr. whose report stated that it was not needed by the Navy.

NASA 802 still exists at the Neil Armstrong Air and Space Museum at Wapakoneta, Ohio, since Neil Armstrong flew the aircraft during the DynaSoar research program. NASA 708 still in NASA markings exists as part of Merle Maine's private collection in Ontario, Oregon

Noyade has control :ok:

[Noyade]

Thanks Trevor and good to hear David. :ok:

Have to be open house...

[Lightning Mate]

Unable to respond to the OH.................:{

[SincoTC]

Morning David :),

No need to apologise mate!

I'm working again, but have very limited web access where I am, and no computer

Coo, hard to imagine that kind of job now :ooh: !!

[Lightning Mate]

Same job - different company - same place.

Will have computer within a couple of weeks.

[Noyade]

Okay then...

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2213/img235h.jpg (http://img522.imageshack.us/i/img235h.jpg/)

[Lightning Mate]

What kind of blade angle spacing is THAT!

Suspect folding blades and flotation gear. US Navy?

[Noyade]

What kind of blade angle spacing is THAT!

Evenly spaced I'm sure. Silhouette parallax error. :ok:

Suspect folding blades and flotation gear

Dunno.

US Navy?

Now THAT I can answer you. No.

[Lightning Mate]

Sadly must go.

Sleep well mate.

[Noyade]

Yep, getting late. Eyes are getting Haze-y.

Cheers.

[skytrain10]

Coffee break....Mil Mi-14?

[Lightning Mate]

Artnoon Ken.

I think Graeme needs a new felt tip!

The pontoon endplates on the 14 are quite thin laterally, whereas in his silhouette they are quite thick.

However, I am sure you are correct and if you wish to continue, since Graeme is :zzz:, I am happy and I'm sure he will be.

[SincoTC]

However, I am sure you are correct

I come, I go, I second that !! Go for it Ken :ok:

[skytrain10]

Afternoon
The pontoon endplates on the 14 are quite thin laterally, whereas in his silhouette they are quite thick. Depends which model of Mil-14 you are looking at! The Mil-14BT has fatter endplates than others, assuming that the 3-view in airwar is correct :)

As you have both supported my suggestion will move on. Stand-by for the next challenge.

PS...nice to see you back David and glad you are working again:ok: Just need to get yourself a pc!

Edit to say Photobucket not working...will post when I can

[Lightning Mate]

It's working on this machine....

edit: If you're still having problems, PM it to me and I'll throw it up on your behalf mate.

[skytrain10]

Thanks David....seems to be my connection. Can't even send an email with a photo...takes too long to load up. Suspect the strong winds have damaged something somewhere around here.

Have to be Open House.

[skytrain10]

Finally managed to upload, so here is the next challenge:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/b89993ff.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

Not sure why I'm foolish enough to say it but ... Pillan?

[skytrain10]

Not sure why I'm foolish enough to say it but ... Pillan? Welcome back from your travels. It's not a Pillan, but it is Amercan...north though, not south.

[Ridge Runner]

A conversion or a new-build?

[skytrain10]

A conversion or a new-build? New build from the late 40's. Never went into production.

[evansb]

TEMCO Model 58 ?

[skytrain10]

Not the TEMCO 58 Brian

[Noyade]

Morning/Evening.

Depends which model of Mil-14 you are looking at!Don't know what the variant was, but the silhouette is from 1995...

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9889/img256j.jpg (http://img26.imageshack.us/i/img256j.jpg/)

Ken, your latest looks like the Streak 85?

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7118/aeroflight85.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/aeroflight85.jpg/)

[skytrain10]

Ken, your latest looks like the Streak 85? Thats the one Graeme - the Aero Flight Streak 85:ok:

Noyade has control

[Noyade]

Thanks Ken. Last time I looked this wasn't on Mel's list...

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1448/newupt.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/newupt.jpg/)

[evansb]

Gawd! What would you guys do without aerofiles.com ?

[evansb]

Mauboussin Hemiptere ? ..and because it is French, it is not in aerofiles.com;)

[Noyade]

Gawd! What would you guys do without aerofiles.com ? Celebrate! :) It's a bottomless pit.

Only reason I found the "85" is because I have a photo of the "225" which looked similar. Then, I went to Aerofiles.

I only like Aerofiles, when it works for me. :)

Mauboussin Hemiptere

Sorry mate, missed that. Very quick! :ok:

Bri has control.

[evansb]

Thanks mate! Here is the next one:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WSH111205.jpg

[Noyade]

I'll try with the Mirage 2000C?

[evansb]

Yes it is the Mirage 2000C.:ok: Looks like the pommy boys are out partying or shopping. You have control.

[Noyade]

Thanks Bri. They're either sleeping or eating, going by Trevor. :)

Not as good a quality as yours...

http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/6070/img234.jpg (http://img807.imageshack.us/i/img234.jpg/)

[Noyade]

It's on Mel's list, but this is the "Super" version...

[sycamore]

Dassault Super Etendard.... OH if correct

[Noyade]

Tis indeed. :)

Sycamore has requested Open House.

[Karlark]

I'll seize the open house opportunity and give it a go!

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii20/mudflaps_2008/79-2.jpg

[Karlark]

Late 40's, twin engine, single prop, French prototype.

That ought to narrow it down a bit. :)

[Noyade]

G'day again Karlark.

French prototype. That ought to narrow it down a bitSadly no, not for me. I've been scrounging through Aerofiles. :(
Is it illustrated in Aviafrance?

twin engine, single propAiracobra style - engines at the back somewhere?
Any connection to Mr Arsenal?

[skytrain10]

Hi Karl...looks like the SNCASO SO-7010 Pegase?

[Karlark]

Morning Noyade,

As near as I can tell the 2X inverted V8s where both in the nose while the rear was all passenger compartment. The picture is in fact from Aviafrance... and it looks like Skytrain has found it!

Evening Ken,

The SO.7010 is correct!

Here is another photo of this aircraft I found somewhere along the way;
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii20/mudflaps_2008/79b.jpg
It sure is a beauty.

Skytrain10's control

[skytrain10]

Thanks Karl
It sure is a beauty. Certainly is and like Graeme my initial thought when I first saw the challenge was American.
Stand-by for the next one. Going to call it a night soon so usual rules apply...if someone identifies it and someone else supports that please move on.

[skytrain10]

Here we go - 1980's design.

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/8a1dddd2.jpg

[Noyade]

Aero Mirage TC-2?

[Karlark]

Looks like you nailed it Graeme :D;
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii20/mudflaps_2008/457967.jpg

I think Skytrain10 would agree that it is your thread :ok:.

[skytrain10]

Aero Mirage TC-2? That's the one Graeme....which developed in to the Team Tango 2:ok:

Noyade has control

[Noyade]

Thanks Ken. Sorry mate, got home late so it'll have to be open house. Cheers.

[skytrain10]

Been OH far too long

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/e0850e8f.jpg

Going to close down soon...usual rules apply:ok:

[Noyade]

Morning Ken. Kondor DII...?

[skytrain10]

Kondor DII Evening Graeme....yep, that's the one. Well done mate:ok:

Noyade has control.

[Noyade]

Thanks Ken. I'm still having fun mate, but it seems this thread just isn't the same any more? What do you think?

Anyway, here's another. My golden rule, is no more than 5 minutes to create. :)

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/8195/img267h.jpg (http://img855.imageshack.us/i/img267h.jpg/)

[Lightning Mate]

Good evening mate. :)

but it seems this thread just isn't the same any more? What do you think?
I'll be back full time when I've finished my new kitchen and get a computer at work.

[Noyade]

:ok:.........

[Lightning Mate]

Would you call that a parasol tandem wing or bipe?

[Noyade]

Source says "radical cantilever sesquiplane."

(Any thoughts for a Christmas Challenge mate?)

[Lightning Mate]

I'll no doubt be able to rustle something up mate.

I've done the Xmas card. :ok:

Must go to work now - catchya later hopefully.

[skytrain10]

but it seems this thread just isn't the same any more? What do you think? I know what you mean...I'm not sure if its a case of waining interest, lack of banter, other commitments or a combination of all three. Always difficult leading up to Xmas, work, commitments, shopping etc but we are a lot quieter than in recent years, with fewer regulars, and as we've said before, the thread can only work with ongoing participation, and contributions. I'm still here and will carry on all the while I feel there is still some interest, somewhere:ok:

David....how long is this kitchen going to take...ours took 2 days:):)

Right. on with the challenge....

[Noyade]

I'm still here

Good to hear mate! :ok: If you're still here, same country, time period and purpose as your last challenge Ken. :)

[Ridge Runner]

Hi boys!!! I'm back and always keen!! M

[Noyade]

G'day Martin. :)

Anyone seen the movie Captain America?

Lot of Luft '46 looking machines in it - what was that pusher-prop fighter? (at the end of the movie). Massive diameter prop. Hollywood fantasy or German fantasy?

[Noyade]

Ok, forget the banter. :)

Here's a photo and 3-view of the same machine. Night! :zzz:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/845/img273p.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/i/img273p.jpg/)

[Lightning Mate]

David....how long is this kitchen going to take...ours took 2 days

It's all the decorating mate, which I'm doing.

Four coats needed on new plaster - the structural stuff was finished last week. The floor floodlights are really cool.....:ok:

[skytrain10]

Problem with banter is that it takes two...at least!

Been in a meeting and have come back to see an image that is terribly familiar....just can't think what it is!! And I only looked at it a couple of days ago :ugh::ugh:

Never saw Captain America mate, so can't comment on that one:(

[Lightning Mate]

Problem with banter is that it takes two...at least!

So, your kitchen took two days did it?

How much did it cost you - £300 ? :E

[skytrain10]

Coffee break and it came to me...the Fokker V.1?

How much did it cost you - £300 ? Do you think I'm made of money?:) Seriously ours was just an installation of the units/electrics, nothing structural or anything. Sounds like yours was/is a somewhat bigger job.

[SincoTC]

Afternoon Ken,

My coffee break now, pretty hectic here as usual!

There's not a trace of doubt that you're correct with the Fokker V.1 and as it's only 2am for Graeme, I suggest control is yours :ok:

[skytrain10]

Thanks Trevor...as you say it's definitely the Fokker V1 and I'm sure Graeme would support us continuing. Therefore here is the next challenge:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/36d68c18.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

Back home now with a PC.

I'll second the Fokker V.1 so off you go Ken. :ok:

PS yes - the kitchen was completely gutted and rebuilt again from scratch, which has involved a complete rewire and total re-plaster.

edit - I see you're up with one.

[skytrain10]

edit - I see you're up with one. Yep, decided to go with it on basis I was confident and so was Trevor. I'm sure G would be ok with that.

Back home now with a PC.Excellent, and good to see you back working again:ok:

[Lightning Mate]

Are the jobbers under the left wing duplicated under the right?

They look like early experimental rocket rails, but I can't believe it.


Excellent, and good to see you back working again

Many thanks mate - I can't stand being bored, even with Prune around.

[skytrain10]

Are the jobbers under the left wing duplicated under the right? Nope, just a couple of protrusions of some sort under the right that are "hidden" by the fuselage. As far as I can see what is on the left wing is the same as the right....the stuff you're referring to is coming out of the nose.
They look like early experimental rocket rails, but I can't believe it. Stick to those beliefs mate, definitely not rocket rails. Not entirely sure what they are....test equip of some sort maybe?

[Lightning Mate]

Now you've got me thinking..........

French?

[skytrain10]

French? Keep that thought, yes, French:ok:

[Lightning Mate]

The tail has a Bloch/Potez look about it.

Warm?

[skytrain10]

Warm? No! Can't see any association with either of those manufacturers.

The aircraft did have an unusual feature.

[sabredog]

HANRIOT NC-510?

[Noyade]

Well it thought it was the British Gnatsnapper. :(

Fixed undercarriage? Sabredog probably has it, but I'll try with the Hanroit NC. 530?

(Good job with the Fokker. :D)

[skytrain10]

Morning Graeme, evening Sabredog....not a Hanriot.

Incidentally, the unusual feature is related to the wings!

[Noyade]

British Gnatsnapper. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/sowee.gif

Idiot. SNARGASHER (Reid and Sigrist)

G'day Ken. Potez?

[Noyade]

the unusual feature is related to the wings!

They look ok to me mate. What's unusual about them? :)

[Noyade]

Never saw Captain America mate, so can't comment on that onehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/sowee.gifWatched it on DVD the other night. There was a brief glimpse of the Focke-Wulf Triebflugel so I thought subsequent aircraft were more Luft '46 types. Googling now says no. Just a modern-day inventive mind. If you see the movie, ignore the story and just enjoy the CGI.

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4360/captainamericadanielsim.jpg (http://img713.imageshack.us/i/captainamericadanielsim.jpg/)

[evansb]

Liore et Olivier LeO-48 ?

[skytrain10]

Not Liore et Olivier or Potez.

They look ok to me mate. What's unusual about them? Flexible aerofoil:)

No idea what it means but it sounds good:ok:

Edit...I gave up Cryptic challenge when someone said about stagnant air being at the leading edge...my knowledge of aerodynamics could be written on the back of a postage stamp:)

Edit 2..I like "2R"....looks like it should have been in a 1960's sci-fi TV series:ok:

[Noyade]

Now I did think of this earlier, but I've only known it with a retractable undercart, then I saw this...

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/893/r101600x.jpg (http://img856.imageshack.us/i/r101600x.jpg/)

The Rey R-1 with "articulating wings"...?

my knowledge of aerodynamics could be written on the back of a postage stamp:)

We should exchange stamps, I'm sure yours would be bigger. :)

[skytrain10]

The Rey R-1 with "articulating wings"...? That's it Graeme...well done:ok: Nice looking aircraft, despite its flapping wings!:)

We should exchange stamps, I'm sure yours would be bigger I would be boasting if I said mine was bigger than yours:)

Your control Graeme

[Noyade]

Thanks Ken, but alas, I have nothing as clever as yours up my sleeve. In fact I'm not really sure why I even made this one...

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/364/img232jz.jpg (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/img232jz.jpg/)

[skytrain10]

Initial thought...Weatherly 201?

[Noyade]

My initial response to your initial thought was - damn you're good! :)

It is. Cost in 1975 was $32,100.

Your control Ken, I'm heading off. Sleep well. Cheers. :ok:

[skytrain10]

damn you're good! Brings back memories:)

Stand-by

[skytrain10]

Next one....closing down, usual rules apply. Good night.

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/e57147d7.jpg

[skytrain10]

Morning. All quiet so to help you along, it is a European design. The photo was a wide angle image....the rather obvious bulge seeming to appear out of the fuselage is the wing end plate. The aircraft appears to go by 2 names so I'll accept either.

[SincoTC]

Morning Ken,

Just looking in at a late coffee break.

I take it that what we see is the front end, is that a prop blade (should be able to see the other I would have thought)?

What's missing to the right, a tandem wing, tailplane or maybe a pusher prop ??

What era is this?

[Lightning Mate]

Afternoon Ken.

Could this be described as a canard tailless flying wing?

[skytrain10]

Afternoon

I was thinking much the same myself about the prop...the spindle is a little lower down than you would first think. The "other half" of the prop does not show in the photo. It is a small prop.
Despite the aircraft somewhat "cut-off" rear end, what you see is what you get. No pusher prop, no vertical tail surface.
So just to summarise, a high wing aircraft, with big end-plates, an elevated small wing at the front (not sure it could be called a canard), and a tractor prop.
Some of its "relatives" fall in to the flying wing category....this one doesn't really fall in to any category at all!

Now, who would produce an aircraft like this :hmm:

Edit to say, 1930's era

[Lightning Mate]

So obviously the endplates confer directional stability, and the elevated front "wing" is for pitch control.

Therefore the wing may be swept.

Who would design it? Not me, but maybe the French would......

[skytrain10]

Therefore the wing may be swept. The front wing is indeed swept.
but maybe the French would...... No maybe's, it is French:ok:

[skytrain10]

All appears quiet so time to move this one along. So here's the challenge "in the flesh" so to speak. Combined with the clues above this one should now go quickly:)

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/66092410.jpg

[sabredog]

De Rouge Elytroplan

[Noyade]

Evening Ken. How are you mate? How's the Chrisse Crazies over there? Everyone running around in hyper-drive spending money? You got big plans next week?

Heard on the radio yesterday your famous rugby player retired. I forgot his name, Jonny someone?

Did Mr Berger and Burr arrive in the mail? Not such a good buy is it? However I did think it may have been from that book, a French Croses product, but it looks like only the French part was correct.

OK, banter over. :)

Edit > Ha! I'm too slow. Proof again - "Don't monologue, just shoot the guy!"


Photo Search Results | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraftsearch=De+Rouge+Elytroplan)

[skytrain10]

De Rouge Elytroplan That's the one sabredog, well done:ok:

Some photo's on the web I subsequently found put it in better perspective.

With Elytroplan named aircraft on a certain flying-wing website I thought it would go quickly once it was identified as French.

sabredog has control.

[sabredog]

Thank you,Skytrain10. A very good challenge, and apologies to Noyade for pipping him at the post.
Open House

[skytrain10]

Morning Graeme

Xmas....others may be running around but I've entered in to the true festive spirit and did my shopping on-line at Amazon:ok: Much easier and it saves all the queues at the checkouts and battling for a non-existant parking space! Hope yours is going well?

Ha! I'm too slow. Proof again - "Don't monologue, just shoot the guy!" You're guilty of what I used to do mate...you would have got it first had it not been for the verbal stuff:)

Berger and Burr arrived....not fantastic but didn't cost me much and its added a few types I was unaware of, so not complaining. Incidentally I got the 2nd edition - not sure how many they did.

Yep, Johnny Wilkinson retired....just to remind you who he was.....a quote from the Daily Mail:
"The points were accumulated through six tries, 162 conversions, 239 penalties and 36 drop-goals; the most famous of which was the drop-goal which earned England World Cup victory over Australia in 2003" :)

[skytrain10]

Thanks sabredog:ok:

As its OH, as Graeme was so close, I'm sure there would be no objections to Noyade having control

[Noyade]

Hope yours is going well? I refuse to join the crowds and don't trust internet shopping! No friends - therefore no need to shop anyway.

I've entered in to the true festive spiritBah humbug!

I got the 2nd editionBastard!

England World Cup victory over Australia in 2003Never forget that. We were in a caravan park at Khancoban and it was pissing with with rain and we watched the game that night. Julie and I nearly choked on our wine when he kicked that goal. Unbelievable.

Sorry mate, no silhouettes left. :(
Stick another up.

[skytrain10]

Nothing left either mate....:(

I'm on an early start tomorrow so will be closing down soon. If I get a chance I'll prep and post one before I hit the hay - unless someone else has come up with one by then?

I was at a corporate function when the final was on in 2003....needless to say there was a lot of drink flowing towards the end of the day. A good time was had by all:ok:

Open House prevails for the time being.

[Noyade]

Open House prevails for the time being.

Ok mate. Catch you guys another time. Night. :ok:

[Lightning Mate]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/Xmas2011.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

No takers for the OH - it's been almost a day!

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/XMAS.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

Hi David! A Volpar Beech 18 conversion? The Turboliner?

edit: If correct, OPEN HOUSE!! :)

[Lightning Mate]

thassaone Martin. :ok:

RR has declared Open House.

[Lightning Mate]

Blimey! Where is everyone? :uhoh:

[skytrain10]

I'm here mate....and with a challenge!

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/c2070753.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

Hello mate!!! Is that a north European machine, Ken? RR

[skytrain10]

Hi Martin...European, yes, but not what I would classify as north (ie not Scandinavia).

[Lightning Mate]

Artnoon Ken. :)

Would you classify it as East Europe then?

[skytrain10]

Afternoon David Would you classify it as East Europe then? Nope....:)

[Ridge Runner]

i'd say polish?

[Lightning Mate]

.....or German....

[skytrain10]

i'd say polish? .....or German....None of those.

Edit, let's make it easier....western Europe.

[SincoTC]

Good afternoon Gents :)

I'll stick with the "ish" and try Turk! I think it's the THK-5A TYRKEN air-ambulance ??

It's been hell on wheels here for the last few days and I'm off into a meeting in a few minutes, so Open House please if correct. I'll try and get back later if I can, Great Card David :ok:

[Ridge Runner]

Edit, let's make it easier....western Europe.

????? Turkey is way East!

[SincoTC]

I just noticed Ken's edit as I logged out DOH :ugh: !!!!!

[skytrain10]

THK-5A TYRKEN Good thought Trevor, but not the THK-5A. You probably missed my last edit!

[Ridge Runner]

It looks strangely Miles'ish. Is it a brit, Ken?

[skytrain10]

Not a Brit mate....head south. Built in the 1940's.

[Lightning Mate]

OK then - I'll shoot for France.

Was there a version with radials?

[skytrain10]

OK then - I'll shoot for France. Good shot....France it is:ok:

Was there a version with radials? Not that I can see. The engines fitted were Renault.

[Ridge Runner]

A Bloch, per chance??

[Lightning Mate]

...or a Siebel, French built just after WW2.

It seems to have a tailskid and not wheel, which makes it very unusual for the era!

[Ridge Runner]

SNCAC NC701?

Edit: SNCAC NC702 Martinet?

http://www.caea.info/imagcoll/caeamartinet1.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

That looks like an excellent call Martin......:ok:

[skytrain10]

Not a Bloch, Siebel or SNCAC product.

It seems to have a tailskid and not wheel, which makes it very unusual for the era! I confess I cannot tell from the photo whether its a small wheel (in which case its buried in the grass!, or a tail skid.....suspect its the former simply because, as you rightly point out, a tailskid would be somewhat unusual.

[Lightning Mate]

That looks like an excellent call Martin......http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Er...no it doesn't....:\

Ken, was the company more famous for seaplanes?

[Ridge Runner]

oh bugger! :(

[Lightning Mate]

I'll raise your bugger.............

[skytrain10]

Ken, was the company more famous for seaplanes?Not at all, in fact I don't believe they ever produced a seaplane, unless it was conversion of one of their landplanes. This was the company's only twin engined aircraft - they produced several single engined aircraft.

Good try with the SNCAC Martinet Martin, they are very similar looking.

[Ridge Runner]

Thanks mate. Sorry but I must go !!!!! RR

[Lightning Mate]

Breguet or Amiot?

[skytrain10]

Breguet or Amiot? Nope. To help you along, just 2 built, late 40's. I believe this was the manufacturers last product.

[SincoTC]

Evening Ken,

Still here I see :), a good one again!

How about the Mauboussin M-300 ??

[skytrain10]

Yep, still here Trevor - until now:)

How about the Mauboussin M-300 ?? That's the one:ok: Just 2 aircraft produced in 1948, which turned out to be the last aircraft from Mauboussin.

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/ac83b379-1.jpg

SincoTC has control

[SincoTC]

Thanks Ken,

I'm just off home now and I've got the my friend the dog again for a couple of days, so I'll call an Open House now and if Martin or David (or any other lurkers) want to take it, then that would be great as I'd like to see it keep moving along. If it's still open later when walkies etc are done I'll scrape something together then!

[SincoTC]

OK, so no great stampede then :*!!

I scraped summat up before I go, you'll all have to wait for any response to swift replies 'til I get back and have dried out :uhoh:! Sorry about the crappy quality :)

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n540/SincoSafe/TC_wtf181.jpg

[skytrain10]

Twin jet bomber project, 1940's?

[SincoTC]

Good timing mate, just got in and heading for the kitchen now (quietly, so that the mutt doesn't notice)!!

All correct apart from the "bomber" bit :)

[Noyade]

Evening. Immediate thought was a pure jet version of the XP-67 Trevor?

Nice card David. :ok: But why is Santa dejected?

[SincoTC]

G'day Graeme,

I can see the similarities there mate, but there's no connection at all :)

[skytrain10]

Is this a British design? Reconnaissance?

[Noyade]

British design

The front view looks a little "Glosterish?" Four cannons in the nose? Heavy long-range fighter escort?

[SincoTC]

Sorry Ken,

Not British or recce!

Edit:

Greame; it is described as a fighter!

[skytrain10]

Morning Graeme:ok: So a fighter then? Russian?

[SincoTC]

Not Russian

[Noyade]

C'mon Trevor, tis the season of giving.

Now give us the goddamn country!

:)

[SincoTC]

tis the season of giving.

Now give us the goddamn country!

:p !! Well, it's not French, Russian, Japanese or American, but it is one of you're favourites :)

[Noyade]

Thinking about the DC-6/7 on WC. I remember as a kid seeing a movie (The Crowded Sky?) with Efrim Zibboulus Jr (Spelling?! :bored:) pranging into the nose of a DC-6 or 7? I think he was in a jet fighter?

What was the jet?

you're favourites I have a favourite?

[skytrain10]

C'mon Graeme...what's your favourite mate? :)

[Noyade]

Well Ken, as a kid I was very partial to Luftwaffe types.

Do you have a couch? I had a troubled youth. It all started when...

[SincoTC]

Well, I did say one of your favourites and you do post quite a lot from there, comprendere?

What was the jet?

Can't stop to delve right now as I've gotta go offline for fifteen minutes while I swap houses, but I think it was something like a Couger or a Shooting Star!

Back soon :)