All borders to reopen.

[currawong]

FWIW its not just overseas arrivals, but interstate also.

The "positive test, immediate transfer to government facility until two negative tests followed by 14 days quarantine in another government facility" model would not fly here.

Works really well though, apparently.

[Bend alot]

But they not people returning from overseas. They are those who had tested positive or were known contacts of those who had, not inbound travellers. You suggested they're the most likely to adhere to the rules; evidently not it would seem.

So again, why are overseas arrivals required to isolate in hotels when known positive cases and their contacts don't?

Anyway, I've got as much chance of getting a logical answer here as I did when I asked my State and Federal members the same question…...:rolleyes:
I am not sure what you do not get.

Most people in QLD are known to be COVID free - there was a breach and some fools contaminated a few people.

Those then were in the community - they either developed symptoms or were asked to be tested - BY THIS TIME it was too late, they either infected others or did not have the virus. The saying the horse has bolted rings true.

The ones who tested positive by this stage had already done all the infecting they were going to do, they then need/ed the self isolate with Johnny Grunt watching - the numbers were/are low in QLD for this to happen.

However new arrivals from overseas are considered contagious until proven otherwise, we do not have enough Johnny Grunts to individually watch everyone of these voluntary arrivals at their own homes.

I do believe the self funded hotel quarantine ($3300) can be circumvented with an approved alternative also self funded, but that I expect costs a little more than $3300.

It seems around 3/4 of QLD cases are overseas arrivals including the one case today.

[Ragnor]

Just curious, Premier Gladys who is awesome and doing a fantastic job. She, today has said she won’t relax restrictions unless testing numbers increase.

Why won’t they accept that people don’t need to get tested and less ppl actually have symptoms?! Why would healthy normally ppl get a test than have to isolate until their results are returned.

[currawong]

Just curious, Premier Gladys who is awesome and doing a fantastic job. She, today has said she won’t relax restrictions unless testing numbers increase.

Why won’t they accept that people don’t need to get tested and less ppl actually have symptoms?! Why would healthy normally ppl get a test than have to isolate until their results are returned.

Not sure testing is available for asymptomatic individuals in NSW unless identified as a possible close contact.

"Testing of asymptomatic people (that is, people with no symptoms) is not recommended routinely. In certain high risk outbreak settings, PHU may consider testing asymptomatic contacts to inform management of the outbreak"

From NSW Health.

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/frequently-asked-questions.aspx#4-2

[clark y]

Victoria had the same thing- we need more tests, but only if you have symptoms.

[Section28- BE]

Mods - not sure if this is ok, but exceptional times.

Might not suit everybody, might help some.

Might even need its own thread.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/353733222469486/

With, Mr "currawong/'s"- same Caveat/'s...... 'Mods'- feel free to, Excise/Flame/Move the following- all Cool!!!!!

Link here: https://www.queenslandcountrylife.com.au/story/6924070/pilots-prepare-to-take-off-in-whole-new-field/?cs=4713

rgds all/be well
Section28

[Turnleft080]

Victoria had the same thing- we need more tests, but only if you have symptoms.
Today was 11 cases, that's about 39 for a 14 day even if we had 5 cases in any 14 day period Dan Andrews would still be hesitant to open up Melbourne.
It's in his fascist left-wing government DNA now, welcome to iron clad, ring of steal, you have no rights, state.
As per the article Slats 11 posted about the CCP Dan was introduced to this philosophy while he was trying to buy a belt.
Now we see it day in day out, moving the goal posts everyday and hence arresting pregnant women and letting go BLM and Casey spreaders.
Can governments defeat viruses. No. Do lockdowns work. No. Europe is now proving it right now. It prolongs the virus. Theory dead. Not according to governments.
Victoria will flatten out now and come March (when job keeper goes funny enough) the cases will spike again. Hence another lockdown.
Hope I'm bloody wrong though if correct these protests will become riots as we see in London. London now about to go into lockdown.
Instead of a $5000 quarantine fine London will fine you $18,000.
Again, the virus isn't scary, governments are.
China has us right where they want us. They like to see other countries damaged and poorer for it.

One more thing. Today at the Hotel quarantine enquiry, Chris Eccles department of the premiers office all of a sudden
could not answer questions today due to a bout of amnesia.
Dan and Jenny front up, under oath, on Wednesday. Lets see if this amnesia thing is also contagious.

[nonsense]

In relation to the title of this thread, has anyone received an explanation as to why positive cases can self isolate at home here in Queensland (and probably elsewhere) but someone returning from overseas who has a reasonable likelihood of not carrying Covid, has to go into hotel quarantine at their own expense?

It gets even better.
If you are found to be infected you are told (and trusted, with some verification) to go home and stay home.
If you arrive from "elsewhere" you must go into 14 day quarantine.
If during that 14 days you test positive, whether on day 3 or day 13, you are set free on day 14 (but not before) and you are told to go home and stay home.

How are the following infected people different, such that they are treated differently?
Someone found to be infected in the community (must isolate at home, no quarantine provided even if family/housemates not infected).
Someone found to be infected on arrival into quarantine (must remain in quarantine 14 days, then released regardless of whether still positive)
Someone found to be infected on day 13 of quarantine (released next day to self isolate - where if they don't have a local home??)

It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that "quarantine" for 14 days followed by release even if infected is primarily designed to inconvenience and discourage new arrivals.

[blubak]

Today was 11 cases, that's about 39 for a 14 day even if we had 5 cases in any 14 day period Dan Andrews would still be hesitant to open up Melbourne.
It's in his fascist left-wing government DNA now, welcome to iron clad, ring of steal, you have no rights, state.
As per the article Slats 11 posted about the CCP Dan was introduced to this philosophy while he was trying to buy a belt.
Now we see it day in day out, moving the goal posts everyday and hence arresting pregnant women and letting go BLM and Casey spreaders.
Can governments defeat viruses. No. Do lockdowns work. No. Europe is now proving it right now. It prolongs the virus. Theory dead. Not according to governments.
Victoria will flatten out now and come March (when job keeper goes funny enough) the cases will spike again. Hence another lockdown.
Hope I'm bloody wrong though if correct these protests will become riots as we see in London. London now about to go into lockdown.
Instead of a $5000 quarantine fine London will fine you $18,000.
Again, the virus isn't scary, governments are.
China has us right where they want us. They like to see other countries damaged and poorer for it.

One more thing. Today at the Hotel quarantine enquiry, Chris Eccles department of the premiers office all of a sudden
could not answer questions today due to a bout of amnesia.
Dan and Jenny front up, under oath, on Wednesday. Lets see if this amnesia thing is also contagious.
All these people with amnesia need to go.
I dont care what public approval rating they have,as we know there are people out there who dont care what politicians do or stand for,as long as their preferred party is in power no wrong can be done & unfortunately that will never change.

[michigan j]

Excerpt from Crikey.com

For a start, there’s the obvious inconsistency. If you test positive to COVID-19, you are asked to quarantine at home. That is, the Australian government trusts you to do the right thing. By contrast, if you are returning from overseas and test negative, you are still required to stay in a three-star hotel for 14 days.

Up until July, this was all at taxpayer expense (Victoria and ACT have not yet stipulated any costs for returning travellers, but theses states are also not currently accepting international flights).
So to clarify: if you test positive to COVID, please stay home. If you happen to come from another country and test negative to COVID, you’re staying at the Rydges for two weeks.
It’s also baffling that, unlike other countries such as Singapore, the Australian government treats residents returning from every country the same way. If you come from India (92,000 cases per day) you are subject to the exact same requirements as if you came from Vietnam (one case per day).

Moreover, the quarantine period is excessively long. While the virus’ incubation period does extend to 14 days, the median time for symptoms to present is around five days. Taiwan, the gold standard of COVID management, requires only five days of quarantine for those returning from low-risk countries.

Then there’s the other issue: as Victoria showed, hotel quarantine is far from foolproof. It relies on a number of checks and balances and human intervention (not to mention, it’s expensive — travellers are charged around $3000 for the stay). While Victoria was the high watermark of incompetence, it certainly was not alone — NSW and WA have also had their own hotel quarantine issues.

Given Australia has (rightly or wrongly) pursued a policy of elimination, it would make far more sense to allow returning travellers to quarantine at home under strict conditions.

The most obvious would be to require a negative test: provide a rapid test upon return and then utilise a location tracker like electronic ankle tags (or the Singapore/Canada model, which involves check-ins via phone). If a person under home quarantine breaches quarantine (or has a guest in their residence), they would be heavily fined ($10,000+) and forced to spend three weeks in a hotel. Random in-person checks could also be used.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Excerpt from Crikey.com

For a start, there’s the obvious inconsistency. If you test positive to COVID-19, you are asked to quarantine at home. That is, the Australian government trusts you to do the right thing. By contrast, if you are returning from overseas and test negative, you are still required to stay in a three-star hotel for 14 days.

Up until July, this was all at taxpayer expense (Victoria and ACT have not yet stipulated any costs for returning travellers, but theses states are also not currently accepting international flights).
So to clarify: if you test positive to COVID, please stay home. If you happen to come from another country and test negative to COVID, you’re staying at the Rydges for two weeks.
It’s also baffling that, unlike other countries such as Singapore, the Australian government treats residents returning from every country the same way. If you come from India (92,000 cases per day) you are subject to the exact same requirements as if you came from Vietnam (one case per day).

Moreover, the quarantine period is excessively long. While the virus’ incubation period does extend to 14 days, the median time for symptoms to present is around five days. Taiwan, the gold standard of COVID management, requires only five days of quarantine for those returning from low-risk countries.

Then there’s the other issue: as Victoria showed, hotel quarantine is far from foolproof. It relies on a number of checks and balances and human intervention (not to mention, it’s expensive — travellers are charged around $3000 for the stay). While Victoria was the high watermark of incompetence, it certainly was not alone — NSW and WA have also had their own hotel quarantine issues.

Given Australia has (rightly or wrongly) pursued a policy of elimination, it would make far more sense to allow returning travellers to quarantine at home under strict conditions.

The most obvious would be to require a negative test: provide a rapid test upon return and then utilise a location tracker like electronic ankle tags (or the Singapore/Canada model, which involves check-ins via phone). If a person under home quarantine breaches quarantine (or has a guest in their residence), they would be heavily fined ($10,000+) and forced to spend three weeks in a hotel. Random in-person checks could also be used.

No returning Australian resident or citizen should be paying for quarantine. Forcing a family of four, through no fault of their own, to spring for ~5K in accommodation costs is just un-Australian. Just divert some of those millions slated for ‘carbon capture’ BS. The government has seriously messed up priorities.

Edited to correct gross estimation of accommodation costs.

[rattman]

to spring for 12K in accommodation costs is just un-Australian.

I am assuming you just guessed that number ! In queensland a family of 4, 2 adults and 2 children costs $4,620. Thats not even close to the number you made up.

Edit thats in a serviced apartment not a hotel

[Chronic Snoozer]

I am assuming you just guessed that number ! In queensland a family of 4, 2 adults and 2 children costs $4,620. Thats not even close to the number you made up.

Edit thats in a serviced apartment not a hotel

Yeah. My bad. About 5K. On top of the thousands of dollars for a flight for four people - make up what number you wish. It sucks.

[michigan j]

Edit thats in a serviced apartment not a hotel
You get to choose?

[rattman]

You get to choose?
No ! singles and couples are put into hotel rooms, family group with adults and minors are put into a hotels with multiple rooms or serviced apartments dpending what is available at the time. You dont get a choice you get what is given but they have (in brisbane) some serviced apartments for a families with minors if you get lucky

(edited in exclamation point for it to make sense)

[C441]

No singles and couples are put into hotel rooms,…...
You missed a full stop.
No. Singles and couples are put into hotel rooms.

[rattman]

You missed a full stop.
No. Singles and couples are put into hotel rooms.


Ahh yeah actually meant and exclamation mark there, but yes you are correct I will edit it

[Stickshift3000]

You get to choose?

Only if you’re a celebrity’ or professional sports player (or associated by work with said sports player) :O

[Ragnor]

NSW still killing their pandemic control plan Zero cases today, wonder if Queen P will be to proud to change her plan!

[KRviator]

Of course not. She hasn't been re-elected yet! See what happens in 5 weeks.....

[Xeptu]

Did you miss me turnleft, you're allowed out of your room now.

[Square Bear]

JobKeeper and JobSeeker payments reduced....now let’s see the States reaction and say it is based on “Medical Advice”.

[Stickshift3000]

JobKeeper and JobSeeker payments reduced....now let’s see the States reaction and say it is based on “Medical Advice”.

Agreed. The ‘hard’ borders are already starting to soften.

[michigan j]

Being a rumour network, I heard someone from a charter org asking the NT chief minister whats the deal because he cant get permission to fly into Darwin from international locations. The chief minister said that Darwin is only taking international students and farm workers from international locations.

Seems a bit rough to deny charters carrying Australians, but allow farm workers and students (but only if not Australian)

[Bad Adventures]

I hope all these power tripping Labour Premiers get thrown out on their arses come election time for keeping these borders closed. It’s a disgrace!

[currawong]

I hope all these power tripping Labour Premiers get thrown out on their arses come election time for keeping these borders closed. It’s a disgrace!

Victoria isn't closed....

Do you think he should keep his job?

Every other state/ territory is restricted, regardless of the politics of the premier.

On the advice of a non aligned Chief Medical or Health Officer.

Only one border is closed to outbound traffic though...

https://www.interstatequarantine.org.au/state-and-territory-border-closures/

[Ladloy]

I hope all these power tripping Labour Premiers get thrown out on their arses come election time for keeping these borders closed. It’s a disgrace!
What about tassy?
Gladys closed the border to Vic, not the other way round.

[jrfsp]

I hope all these power tripping Labour Premiers get thrown out on their arses come election time for keeping these borders closed. It’s a disgrace!

Mark McGowan is likely to win by the largest majority ever.....the WA population support the border closure by something like 93%.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Do you think he should keep his job?

768 deaths and more than 18,000 infections, Yeah / Nah

[dr dre]

Mark McGowan is likely to win by the largest majority ever.....the WA population support the border closure by something like 93%.

Polls taken when Victoria was getting several hundred cases per day, and then when under a strict lockdown. When the eastern states are opening up and travelling without lockdowns by December then polls may change very quickly.

I think no one expected Victoria to get their situation under control this quickly (thanks Dictator Dan!), so maybe the WA government thought Victoria will still be in trouble for the rest of the year. And for a while it looked like NSW were on the cusp of a Victorian style outbreak too. Now with Victoria driving cases numbers down hard they should where NSW/Qld are today in about a month. So on track for eastern states re-opening in December. If there’s no trouble then it could be a political disadvantage if the border is still closed for another 3 months. So preparations may have to be made to shadow the East coast re-openings by a few weeks. Contact tracers being recruited en masse in WA now.

I’ve heard rumblings about a potential early December re-opening. Fits in well with the High Court trial.

I think the key is to wait until October 26 when most Melbourne lockdown restrictions lifted, if the cases are stilling trending toward zero it’ll make a good case in order for all borders to be open by Christmas.

For some light reading here’s a Grattan Institute document explaining the reasons why aiming for zero cases is an achievable goal and the best option, and how that can be achieved this year:

Go for zero: How Australia can get to zero COVID-19 cases (https://grattan.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Go-for-zero-how-Australia-can-get-to-zero-COVID-19-cases-Grattan-Report.pdf)

[SOPS]

I’m a Liberal voter. However in the next WA election, for the first time in my life.. I will vote Labor. ( Would never do it for a federal election).

I will be surprised if the Libs get 3 seats in the lower house at the next WA election.

[currawong]

I would contend that the advice that each premier received would have been the same regardless of their colour.

Would not want to be the premier explaining why they disregarded that medical advice when the inevitable inquiry/royal commission comes about.

Very hard position for opposition politics to argue "disregard the medical advice".

This thing has been a poison chalice for all sides of politics.

Personally, I think divisive reporting and frankly kooky bloggers are making hard work out of a pretty straightforward exercise.

This thing will be over soon. Right now we, Australia, are looking pretty good compared to elsewhere.

[ruprecht]

This thing will be over soon.

Define “soon”. :confused:

[currawong]

Define “soon”. :confused:

Very fair point. "Over" is probably a relative term too...

As I see it, cases are zeroing out. We are headed into summer, airbourne pathogens don't tend to do well outside of winter.

Vaccines are close. Entirely possible before our next winter when case numbers can be expected to rise again.

With the bottoming out of case numbers, borders will open. Border exemption areas are already expanding.

We are looking in good shape.

Much of the northern hemisphere though are facing surging numbers on the way into winter. Not good shape.

With care, over in Australia. With caveats.

[Xeptu]

Define “soon”. :confused:

Earlier than Later

[aviation_enthus]

Very fair point. "Over" is probably a relative term too...

As I see it, cases are zeroing out. We are headed into summer, airbourne pathogens don't tend to do well outside of winter.

Vaccines are close. Entirely possible before our next winter when case numbers can be expected to rise again.

With the bottoming out of case numbers, borders will open. Border exemption areas are already expanding.

We are looking in good shape.

Much of the northern hemisphere though are facing surging numbers on the way into winter. Not good shape.

With care, over in Australia. With caveats.

A few issues.....

- most vaccines fail in Phase 3. So just because the Oxford etc vaccines have made it this far means jack as far as it actually passing into production.

- it’s all well and good having said vaccine pass stage 3 and enter production. But have you actually seen the production rates available? Even in China, with 5-6 vaccines in development, it would take them over 12 months using ALL their production facilities to produce enough for their entire population. So best case will probably take 12-24 months to see meaningful coverage from a vaccine that enters production.

- “with care”, with all due respect to any Victorians, the two things required to keep COVID out of the community inAustralia (good quarantine and contact tracing), have both been shown to be woefully done in that state. There’s a significant chance that Vic Health still won’t have learnt their lesson to avoid a repeat occurrence happening at some point in the next 6 months. On top of this, I’d argue the QLD and WA tracing systems have not been properly tested yet as they’ve had no significant outbreaks from the quarantine system. NSW has had multiple security guards test positive but they still managed to keep a lid on it, so I’d have confidence in their abilities.

[blubak]

768 deaths and more than 18,000 infections, Yeah / Nah
Forget about what party he stands for,vote on the performance.
People need to take their blinkers off & decide if the service was good,just the same as buying a product or a service,if you were happy go there again,if not take the business elsewhere.
I really cant believe people vote for a political party based on the name of it & refuse to even concede that anything wrong has been done.

[Turnleft080]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

About 3 weeks ago we were all wondering how the deaths would match up against the massive increase of cases in Europe.
Three weeks is up and deaths have still flatlined which now must prove one thing. This virus loves to attack people with infected tissue. First wave.
If you don't have any infected tissue i.e. (healthy people) you will only come asymptomatic as shown on the above graphs. Second wave.
Even without a vaccine this virus will fade away just like mers/sars as viruses were meant too. If their is no longer
infected tissue (not so healthy people) to infect the virus will become week and fade.
As for USA/Brazil/Iran/Israel they still look like their in the first wave.
Lockdowns only flatten the curve (government controlled) they cannot eradicate. Europe has just proven that.
You will always get a cluster here and there. Why? It needs to spread and infect healthy tissue before it fades.
As I said moons ago lockdowns only prolong the virus.

So if we get another pandemic do you think we have learnt anything. More importantly have the governments of this world
learnt anything. Stupid stupid question of course. Maybe, just maybe, they should try to lockdown all age care and those with infected tissue and leave the
economy open i.e. don't burn 500 billion for nothing. Let it rip through the young generation no one will hardly go to hospital because they
have all dosed up on Vit D ( don't let the WHO or the pharmaceutical companies know about this because they will get very upset) and hay presto
virus gone in 3 months. Isn't that right Mr Sutton and Daniel Sun.

[highflyer40]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

About 3 weeks ago we were all wondering how the deaths would match up against the massive increase of cases in Europe.
Three weeks is up and deaths have still flatlined which now must prove one thing. This virus loves to attack people with infected tissue. First wave.
If you don't have any infected tissue i.e. (healthy people) you will only come asymptomatic as shown on the above graphs. Second wave.
Even without a vaccine this virus will fade away just like mers/sars as viruses were meant too. If their is no longer
infected tissue (not so healthy people) to infect the virus will become week and fade.
As for USA/Brazil/Iran/Israel they still look like their in the first wave.
Lockdowns only flatten the curve (government controlled) they cannot eradicate. Europe has just proven that.
You will always get a cluster here and there. Why? It needs to spread and infect healthy tissue before it fades.
As I said moons ago lockdowns only prolong the virus.

So if we get another pandemic do you think we have learnt anything. More importantly have the governments of this world
learnt anything. Stupid stupid question of course. Maybe, just maybe, they should try to lockdown all age care and those with infected tissue and leave the
economy open i.e. don't burn 500 billion for nothing. Let it rip through the young generation no one will hardly go to hospital because they
have all dosed up on Vit D ( don't let the WHO or the pharmaceutical companies know about this because they will get very upset) and hay presto
virus gone in 3 months. Isn't that right Mr Sutton and Daniel Sun.

:ugh:.. ..

[Transition Layer]

I’m a Liberal voter. However in the next WA election, for the first time in my life.. I will vote Labor. ( Would never do it for a federal election).

I will be surprised if the Libs get 3 seats in the lower house at the next WA election.
Why the change of heart? Do you honestly think McGowan has done the right thing?

He took the easy zero risk option, but was it the best one?

[getaway]

About 3 weeks ago we were all wondering how the deaths would match up against the massive increase of cases in Europe.
Three weeks is up and deaths have still flatlined which now must prove one thing. This virus loves to attack people with infected tissue. First wave.
If you don't have any infected tissue i.e. (healthy people) you will only come asymptomatic as shown on the above graphs. Second wave.
Even without a vaccine this virus will fade away just like mers/sars as viruses were meant too. If their is no longer
infected tissue (not so healthy people) to infect the virus will become week and fade.
As for USA/Brazil/Iran/Israel they still look like their in the first wave.
Lockdowns only flatten the curve (government controlled) they cannot eradicate. Europe has just proven that.
You will always get a cluster here and there. Why? It needs to spread and infect healthy tissue before it fades.
As I said moons ago lockdowns only prolong the virus.

So if we get another pandemic do you think we have learnt anything. More importantly have the governments of this world
learnt anything. Stupid stupid question of course. Maybe, just maybe, they should try to lockdown all age care and those with infected tissue and leave the
economy open i.e. don't burn 500 billion for nothing. Let it rip through the young generation no one will hardly go to hospital because they
have all dosed up on Vit D ( don't let the WHO or the pharmaceutical companies know about this because they will get very upset) and hay presto
virus gone in 3 months. Isn't that right Mr Sutton and Daniel Sun.
spot on turn left.

You've got to wonder, who's been running the show. Have lawyers been saying to govts, if you don't lock down, you'll be sued left, right & centre, when someone dies.

[dr dre]

Why the change of heart? Do you honestly think McGowan has done the right thing?

He took the easy zero risk option, but was it the best one?

One could say as we live in a democracy and going off his polls, probably???

Although interstate and international aviation is suffering out of WA, intrastate isn’t. There’s been a boom in local tourism and buying of local goods, especially luxury goods. Boat sales in booming. The economy isn’t suffering too bad, unemployment dropped and it’s a fair bet there aren’t as many Jobkeeper recipients in WA compared to the rest. There probably is a fairly good argument to keep border restrictions in WA a few months longer to make sure it doesn’t get into our vulnerable indigenous communities. But I do understand the family separation issues and overall national picture, and hope the interstate borders re-open prior to year’s end too. WA was generally being put back on an OK track by McGowan after the Colon Barnett downturn. He deserves credit for not buckling to the Feds when they wanted to disembark that plague ship in Freo as well.

So as in any election we then look at the alternative, Liza Harvey? I don’t think even Liberal party supporters want her anywhere near the Premier’s office, that’s assuming more than 10% know who she is. She was only put into the job to cop the inevitable first election loss anyway. The state Libs have virtually nothing to offer and are on track to be wiped out at the next poll. The worst problem for those wanting the interstate border to open was having Clive Palmer front and centre calling for them to open. I bet quite a few people probably wanted the border shut just to keep him out.

[neville_nobody]

Although interstate and international aviation is suffering out of WA, intrastate isn’t. There’s been a boom in local tourism and buying of local goods, especially luxury goods. Boat sales in booming. The economy isn’t suffering too bad, unemployment dropped and it’s a fair bet there aren’t as many Jobkeeper recipients in WA compared to the rest. There probably is a fairly good argument to keep border restrictions in WA a few months longer to make sure it doesn’t get into our vulnerable indigenous communities. But I do understand the family separation issues and overall national picture, and hope the interstate borders re-open prior to year’s end too. WA was generally being put back on an OK track by McGowan after the Colon Barnett downturn. He deserves credit for not buckling to the Feds when they wanted to disembark that plague ship in Freo as well.

So as in any election we then look at the alternative, Liza Harvey? I don’t think even Liberal party supporters want her anywhere near the Premier’s office, that’s assuming more than 10% know who she is. She was only put into the job to cop the inevitable first election loss anyway. The state Libs have virtually nothing to offer and are on track to be wiped out at the next poll. The worst problem for those wanting the interstate border to open was having Clive Palmer front and centre calling for them to open. I bet quite a few people probably wanted the border shut just to keep him out.

That's wonderful and all however there is the issue of the constitution. If the East Coast is no longer in Pandemic then the WA Government has to open the border. In reality they should be open to most of Australia already. Sooner or later the WA Labor Party might have to realise they are not running a Communist Dictatorship and are beholden to a few rules that govern the whole country.

[3 Holer]

............. Sooner or later the WA Labor Party might have to realise they are not running a Communist Dictatorship and are beholden to a few rules that govern the whole country.

Tell that to the Victorian Labor Party. Only difference is WA booming under their Dictatorship whereas Victoria is dying a very slow death.

[Joker89]

https://youtu.be/LrRijSa8494

[KRviator]

Two Hundred and thirteen BILLION dollars.

That's the budget deficit this year - a stunning turnaround from the projected $5 billion surplus forecast before we locked down the countries towns, cities and state borders.

Value of Statistical Life
Based on international and Australian research a credible estimate of the value of statistical life is $4.9m and the value of statistical life year is $213,000 in 2019 dollars.
A key concept is the value of a statistical life (VSL) which is an estimate of the value society places on reducing the risk of dying. By convention the life is assumed to be the life of a young adult with at least 40 years of life ahead. Source (https://www.pmc.gov.au/sites/default/files/publications/value-of-statistical-life-guidance-note_0_0.pdf)

So, how many people would we have needed to get "value for money" out of the $200B deficit? 43,469. But hang on a minute...That's "young adults with 40 years ahead of them".

The median age of COVID deaths in Australia remains 86. According to the Australian Institute of Health & Welfare, an 85 year old male in 2018 can expect to live to 91.4, a female to 92.5, so average it out to 92 years (Source (https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-death/deaths-in-australia/contents/life-expectancy)). So that's what, 6 years longer than the average COVID death. So how many people would need to be saved to get value for money with those figures? 166,666 senior citizens would need to be "saved" to justify the cost of our current budget deficit.

Anybody really think we "got out money's worth"?

[currawong]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

About 3 weeks ago we were all wondering how the deaths would match up against the massive increase of cases in Europe.
Three weeks is up and deaths have still flatlined which now must prove one thing. This virus loves to attack people with infected tissue. First wave.
If you don't have any infected tissue i.e. (healthy people) you will only come asymptomatic as shown on the above graphs. Second wave.
Even without a vaccine this virus will fade away just like mers/sars as viruses were meant too. If their is no longer
infected tissue (not so healthy people) to infect the virus will become week and fade.
As for USA/Brazil/Iran/Israel they still look like their in the first wave.
Lockdowns only flatten the curve (government controlled) they cannot eradicate. Europe has just proven that.
You will always get a cluster here and there. Why? It needs to spread and infect healthy tissue before it fades.
As I said moons ago lockdowns only prolong the virus.

So if we get another pandemic do you think we have learnt anything. More importantly have the governments of this world
learnt anything. Stupid stupid question of course. Maybe, just maybe, they should try to lockdown all age care and those with infected tissue and leave the
economy open i.e. don't burn 500 billion for nothing. Let it rip through the young generation no one will hardly go to hospital because they
have all dosed up on Vit D ( don't let the WHO or the pharmaceutical companies know about this because they will get very upset) and hay presto
virus gone in 3 months. Isn't that right Mr Sutton and Daniel Sun.

:confused:

Have you actually looked at the graphs you linked?

Deaths quadrupled in the UK over the 21 day period, in line with the increase in cases.

Make it easy on yourself and hit the 7 day moving average option...

[Joker89]

:confused:

Have you actually looked at the graphs you linked?

Deaths quadrupled in the UK over the 21 day period, in line with the increase in cases.

Make it easy on yourself and hit the 7 day moving average option...

really, to me the deaths curve and the cases curve look nothing like the first wave.

[currawong]

really, to me the deaths curve and the cases curve look nothing like the first wave.

I would agree. Hard reliable data was difficult at that time.

Early on 1 in 4 tests were positive in the UK. Only the sickest got tested. Both of which skewed their data badly.

If more tests = more positives, UK should have peaked at the end of July.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=earliest..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&testsPerCaseMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc

[Turnleft080]

Regarding the UK I will just pick a date April 5 cases 5348 deaths 644 and October 5 cases 12594 deaths 19
That's 3 weeks into both waves. Also checkout world cases against deaths. Cases slope up, the deaths slope down.
Interesting trend. Also found out President Trump while at Walter Reed Hospital was given Remdesivir, Regeneron, Dexamethasome
Zinc, Vit D, Famotidine, Melatonin. That's 5 drugs and 2 minerals which are Zinc and D. Dr Sean Colony (yes James Bond) his main doc
should be treating everyone like this. For this info U-tube Dr John Campbell update.
Cheers.

[currawong]

I like Dr John.

He seems far more concerned about the upswing in cases than yourself.

He will also tell you less than a quarter of the cases in the UK "first wave" were detected.

One reason the UK case fatality rate is so much higher that our own.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&country=GBR~AUS&region=World&cfrMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc

[Bend alot]

Two Hundred and thirteen BILLION dollars.

That's the budget deficit this year - a stunning turnaround from the projected $5 billion surplus forecast before we locked down the countries towns, cities and state borders.


While it would not have been a $213B black hole, only a fairy and Santa would believe it was going to be a surplus.

P.S pretty much the World was/is in lock down - that would have & continue to impact Australia's deficit/surplus bottom line.

[Derfred]

Anybody really think we "got out money's worth"?

Yes.........

[Ragnor]

Will Queen P with the election people! Have QLD ppl woken up to her and that idiot SM.

[Turnleft080]

Here is todays odd spot.
Cases in NSW registered 12 while in VIC they reached 11. All of NSW remains totally open while Melbourne remains
in stage 4 lockdown, metro in a ring of steel, 5km limited, masked and mentally broken.
Meanwhile the lady in QLD is telling the lady in NSW you have 48 hours or else.
Place these two on the stage it would be more entertaining than the debate we had last week.

[thisishardtochoose]

Here is todays odd spot.
Cases in NSW registered 12 while in VIC they reached 11. All of NSW remains totally open while Melbourne remains
in stage 4 lockdown, metro in a ring of steel, 5km limited, masked and mentally broken.
Meanwhile the lady in QLD is telling the lady in NSW you have 48 hours or else.
Place these two on the stage it would be more entertaining than the debate we had last week.

What part of VIC was having 700 cases a day just last month don't you realise?

[morno]

What part of VIC was having 700 cases a day just last month don't you realise?

It’s the garlic....

[layman]

“All of NSW remains totally open”

Totally wrong !!

Try driving from Victoria into NSW. Can’t be done except for small border areas and requires a permit.

Even NSW residents in regional Victoria (most areas have had no cases for months) can’t get into NSW unless they quarantine in Sydney.

According to the NSW COVID-19 helpline, NSW has no / none / zilch roadmap as to when they’ll open up to people in Victoria

[KRviator]

“All of NSW remains totally open”
Totally wrong !!
Try driving from Victoria into NSW. Can’t be done except for small border areas and requires a permit.Wrong context.
Everyone in NSW can move about at will throughout NSW, even though there were more cases in NSW than VIC and the Victorians remain prisoners in their own homes...

[Turnleft080]

It’s the garlic....
Oh! Morno. Don't be ridiculous. You must be silenced immediately. Do you really think a product like garlic that's been protecting the human race for the last 5000 years
from all sort of diseases is going to protect you today. As head of the pharacutical industry the idea of garlic and while I'm at it Zinc and Vit D is just preposterous.
In a pandemic, the idea is to make a lot of money and I mean a lot of money with expensive drugs, not with regular shopping at your local green grocery.

[thisishardtochoose]

even though there were more cases in NSW than VIC

Did I miss something? When did this happen?

[Ragnor]

NSW did not have more cases than VIC you guys are reading the stats all wrong. NSW has 8 cases today as 4 are returned international travelers already in hotel quarantine.

[blubak]

Will Queen P with the election people! Have QLD ppl woken up to her and that idiot SM.
Saw her on tv yesterday talking about investing into some hydrogen project.
She looked the part in her open neck mens shirt & using her 2 new words'for example' many times,she must have been up all night learning them.
Wonder what the tourism operators who are on the brink of collapse thought about her investment in hydrogen🤦‍♀️

[layman]

KRviator

In that context, ALL states & territories are totally open

Melburnians being the only exception

[KRviator]

KRviator

In that context, ALL states & territories are totally open

Melburnians being the only exceptionNo one is arguing any different, where are you going with this?

TL080 made the point NSW registered more cases than Victoria, though granted 4 of them were in hotel quarantine, and from memory 3 were from the previous day added to the current days tally, but nonetheless, the "count" for that day exceeded Victoria, yet they are still the ones in lockdown.

I don't necessarily agree with TL080 on this one, as it should only be community transmission that counts, the 4 cases NSW had in hotel quarantine aren't relevant to the lockdown/don't lockdown decision.

[RodH]

Given the constant chopping and changing of new cases being detected of Covid-19 it seems fruitless to continue to guess or hope for border re openings in Australia.

Even the Premiers can't agree on a formula and rather they all seem hell bent on protecting their political future rather than the well being of this Country both physically and financially.

Short of a vaccine being discovered really soon I cannot see ALL of the borders in this country opening for at least another 6 months, maybe one or two but WA will remain stuck in it's sandpit for a long time.

The prospect of a vaccine soon does not seem very likely so I guess we will just have to try and sit this out difficult as it is.

Our country desperately needs it's airlines flying fully again and people travelling unhindered as soon as possible as it's a very big part of the economy.

Fingers crossed for this elusive vaccine!!!!

[Turnleft080]

What a splendid day at Spring street today. Just a brilliant solid innings that. The journalists bowled leg breaks, googlies, yorkers, bouncers
and Dan Andrews played them with contempt and beautiful judgment. The deflecting behind the wicket was measurable.
He remains on 99 not out and tomorrow when play resumes at 11am he will play a off drive down to mid off for a magnificent
century. Never in the history of politics has this occurred. It doesn't get to be any better than that. He has laid the foundations
and now will have his eye in set for his double hundred by Christmas.

[neville_nobody]

What a splendid day at Spring street today. Just a brilliant solid innings that. The journalists bowled leg breaks, googlies, yorkers, bouncers and Dan Andrews played them with contempt and beautiful judgment. The deflecting behind the wicket was measurable. He remains on 99 not out and tomorrow when play resumes at 11am he will play a off drive down to mid off for a magnificent century. Never in the history of politics has this occurred. It doesn't get to be any better than that. He has laid the foundations and now will have his eye in set for his double hundred by Christmas.

Time to take the second new ball and bring out that devastating quick The Constitution for a bit chin music just before the close of play. I would imagine he will easily get two or three quick wickets but whether the Federal Government will bring him on and drop it in short is the question.

About time this country was put back to the way it was envisioned.

[currawong]

"About time this country was put back to the way it was envisioned."

Penal colony?

:}

[Buster Hyman]

Penal colony?

:}
Are you in Victoria too?

[Turnleft080]

So much for closing the VIC/NSW border. A little cluster or spot fire has jumped the fence to Liverpool/Campbelltown.
What might that mean? Lockdown 1 failed because we are now into week 1 of 6 of lockdown 2. Wether we go stage 3 or
rumour has it stage 4 tomorrow, Dan's government has 5 weeks to flatten the curve again. May well he do that.
Everything opens up again like a flower, and it just needs another indiscretion, numbers go up again. Lockdown 2 failed.
A lockdown 3 is economically out of the question. The people will have a say on that. Only one way to go.

I thought I drag my quote down from July 14. Good to see the WHO drongos catching up.
Dan following his commo lockdown model for the past 10 weeks is about to have more raw egg splashed all over him.
Having just said that Dan's right hand man has just quit. Chris Eccles. Slowly but surely Dan's government is falling apart.
Next on the chopping block.

[Cafe City]

NSW, VIC, QLD Premiers, will soon be given the chop !

Gladys should probably stand up in the box right now, resign and walk out of the Court and never be seen again....
In deep $hit

[Green.Dot]

Gladys should probably stand up in the box right now, resign and walk out of the Court and never be seen again....
In deep $hit

And so one of the only Leaders in the country who seems to have any capacity to handle COVID and the interests of the economy at the same time could potentially be walking.

You couldn’t make this script up if you tried!!:ugh:

[blubak]

NSW, VIC, QLD Premiers, will soon be given the chop !
Andrews is deep in it now,its so obvious now he knows his cover has been blown wide open by Eccles resigning.
Credlin has all the facts again,she is so composed.

[dr dre]

You couldn’t make this script up if you tried!!:ugh:

Yes you could, Berejiklian isn’t the first NSW Liberal leader this decade who’s corruption was exposed at ICAC....

[ScepticalOptomist]

NSW, VIC, QLD Premiers, will soon be given the chop !
I’ll be doing my bit to vote the QLD clown out.

[Ragnor]

Yes you could, Berejiklian isn’t the first NSW Liberal leader this decade who’s corruption was exposed at ICAC....

Corrupt how? Can you substantiate your comment?

Her testimony was purely there on a personal level due to phone taps as was said at the end of her testimony if you watched it and not as an investigative one. She is not being incriminated at all in the male MPs corrupt Allegations.

[dr dre]

Corrupt how? Can you substantiate your comment?

Her testimony was purely there on a personal level due to phone taps as was said at the end of her testimony if you watched it and not as an investigative one. She is not being incriminated at all in the male MPs corrupt Allegations.

Her knowledge of a corrupt MP she was sleeping with if you want to be exact. I know the actions of some leaders lately (Trump comes to mind) have made folks numb to how a proper leader should morally act, but generally if you lead a party and a state you shouldn’t be secretly getting under the covers with someone who you would undoubtedly know is corrupt, it comprises your integrity and leadership. She pretty much lied to ICAC (don’t forget, it’s an Independent Commission) ver having no knowledge of a company her “friend” had corrupt dealings with, yet phone recordings revealed her an her “friend” openly discussing it. There’s also been some interesting stuff revealed by some decent investigators about her and Barilaro’s land management rorts. Barry O’Farrell resigned for less.

[Square Bear]

You might want to be a little bit careful there Dr Dre....whilst the Premier has said she had a close personal relationship with the MP, she has stated that it was not intimate.

Thus your comment she slept with a corrupt MP may be off the mark....and in the light of the Premiers statement, makes your assumption and statement quite presumptuous, opening you up to what Tony Abbott was accused of, for a much less accusation.

Moral is.....never comment on the virtue of a Lady, it is quite simply unbecoming.

[Transition Layer]

You might want to be a little bit careful there Dr Dre....whilst the Premier has said she had a close personal relationship with the MP, she has stated that it was not intimate.

I’m sure most of us here have had sexual relationships that weren’t intimate :}

[Buster Hyman]

I’m sure most of us here have had sexual relationships that weren’t intimate :}
True, but I think they're talking about having it with another person TL.....

[Ragnor]

Not entirely correct Dre! I watched the ICAC testimony as it was televised her testimony was cut by ICAC as she was leading into graphic personal details, what that is we will never know but you can speculate.
The man in questions phone, emails and all forms of communications were tapped for sometime. ICAC didn’t even know GB involvement until she called him. His dealings were never discussed on the phone with her she was telling the truth when she said she didn’t discuss the dealings few text messages that meant nothing only one on selling a particular property other than that she has done nothing wrong criminally. Morally well that’s for you and others to judge.
When the main person gets interviewed tomorrow that will be a show to watch (Wednesday)
She is the best premier in the country at the moment I hope she survives, her party is appearing to support her but external pressures could become to great. The next week will tell.

[Green.Dot]

Labor or Liberal diehards- who gives a fcvk right now? Let’s deal with COVID and pick the best leaders for the job.

If you could clone Gladys or Dan to run all the other states I know which one I would chose.

[Green.Dot]

Time to make some more popcorn

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-13/lnp-crisis-as-deb-frecklington-referred-to-election-watchdog/12748400

[Ragnor]

I know, it’s a mess right. Queen P was always going to win anyway QLD silly enough to give her a run again.

[Transition Layer]

True, but I think they're talking about having it with another person TL.....

Well played :D

[Turnleft080]

Sutton says Victoria is the hardest place for trace contact. That's coming from him a prof.
Then contact tracing in the slums of Brazil, Afghanistan, India would be much easier then.

We will maintain the lockdown according to the science and highest medical advice.
Note they have never disclosed this so called fantastic science and medical advice or the
brilliant model we work on. What about the yesterday's statement from the WHO, that lockdowns were meant
to bend the curve only. After that you contact trace. All to hard apparently, just lock it down so much easier.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

The graph shows about a month ago lockdown should of ended.
Again today, VIC 13 cases, fully lockdown stage 4, compulsory masks
and NSW, 12 cases, fully open, no lockdown where a mask if you wish.
And I heard on 3aw today that a lady broke the 5km rule and actually went 6km
to get to the IGA shopping centre. Not a good enough excuse I'm afraid, that will be $1652 mam.
The talk back is starting to get angry now. Don't hold your breath for Sunday.

[turbantime]

Whilst I agree that your lockdowns are overtly punitive you can’t compare the numbers of NSW v Vic today. 6 out of the 13 were overseas travellers in hotel quarantine. Of the remaining 7, 5 were in one household and 2 were reported yesterday but included in today’s numbers and all linked to existing clusters.

It diminishes an argument completely when the stats are cherry picked.

I wish all of you in Melbourne well and hope that this nightmare, thrust upon you by incompetent leaders, ends soon.

[Buster Hyman]

Well played :D
:p Taken in the spirit it was intended. (I forgot the Emoji) :ok:

Labor or Liberal diehards- who gives a fcvk right now? Let’s deal with COVID and pick the best leaders for the job.
Initially, with the National Cabinet, I thought we had mature leadership across the board that put aside petty politics to get the job done. That seemed to last for a while, but it's all gone out the window & party allegiances are dictating the narrative. Once the Politicians went back to their party lines, the public followed their lead. God help us if we're ever threatened militarily!

[KRviator]

I wish all of you in Melbourne well and hope that this nightmare, thrust upon you by incompetent leaders, ends soon.The depressing part, tt, is that the nightmare is just beginning for an awful lot of people. How many have lost jobs, careers, and are facing the loss of their home or eviction because they can't pay their mortgage?

But it's OK, we've given 4,000 people an extra 5 years of their lives at the expense of your futures!

[currawong]

Sutton says Victoria is the hardest place for trace contact. That's coming from him a prof.
Then contact tracing in the slums of Brazil, Afghanistan, India would be much easier then.

We will maintain the lockdown according to the science and highest medical advice.
Note they have never disclosed this so called fantastic science and medical advice or the
brilliant model we work on. What about the yesterday's statement from the WHO, that lockdowns were meant
to bend the curve only. After that you contact trace. All to hard apparently, just lock it down so much easier.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

The graph shows about a month ago lockdown should of ended.
Again today, VIC 13 cases, fully lockdown stage 4, compulsory masks
and NSW, 12 cases, fully open, no lockdown where a mask if you wish.
And I heard on 3aw today that a lady broke the 5km rule and actually went 6km
to get to the IGA shopping centre. Not a good enough excuse I'm afraid, that will be $1652 mam.
The talk back is starting to get angry now. Don't hold your breath for Sunday.

Because, as your graph shows, in Victoria 50 odd cases can become 500 cases in about four weeks.

Get on top of that issue and we will all be better off.

[wheels_down]

They need about 2-3 weeks of single digit figures down south before opening the flood gates. That mid teens with mass rapid openings will be back in the 50s in the matter of a month then it’s rinse and repeat and it’s now March and we are back where we are today.

I get the anger and fatigue, and yes this all of result of Spring St, however this cannot get out of hand otherwise it’s going to take until Easter to get back to this point.

Starving people of freedom for so long then opening up the gates, has not been done here yet and the results of such rapid movement could go any way. Think of the chaos that will be seen at Shopping Malls. It’s going to spread like wildfire I think.

[Turnleft080]

Because, as your graph shows, in Victoria 50 odd cases can become 500 cases in about four weeks.

Get on top of that issue and we will all be better off.
For the last month though, deaths have all been age care, have they not. If that's the case then lockdown age care only and open the rest or
implement what NSW have done. A couple of so called Vic health experts went up to NSW to learn about contact tracing about a month
ago and have they leant or thrown the concept out the window. Don't know. Not one press conference on that subject.
Peta Credlin grilled Dan on this not just that 6min call and the standard cold face answer. I will determine what's best for the state according to the science.
Gosh that's good answer spin at it's best.

If you open up do the obvious things (mask, space, sanitise etc) then tracing should keep cases <15.
If not, then Dan has proved (in fact already proved) that lockdowns don't work.
That's according to the latest information WHO released according to the science.

[currawong]

For the last month though, deaths have all been age care, have they not. If that's the case then lockdown age care only and open the rest or
implement what NSW have done. A couple of so called Vic health experts went up to NSW to learn about contact tracing about a month
ago and have they leant or thrown the concept out the window. Don't know. Not one press conference on that subject.
Peta Credlin grilled Dan on this not just that 6min call and the standard cold face answer. I will determine what's best for the state according to the science.
Gosh that's good answer spin at it's best.

If you open up do the obvious things (mask, space, sanitise etc) then tracing should keep cases <15.
If not, then Dan has proved (in fact already proved) that lockdowns don't work.
That's according to the latest information WHO released according to the science.

Obvious, except its not that simple, is it?

Your post #473 regarding mask wearing illustrates -

"Come Thursday I think it means I'm going to have a criminal record."

[Transition Layer]

'We can't be a hermit nation': Infectious disease expert backs select travel bubbles (https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/we-can-t-be-a-hermit-nation-infectious-disease-expert-backs-select-travel-bubbles-20201013-p564le.html)

There is zero appetite for risk in this country anymore! We are doomed as a nation if we remain locked off to the rest of the world indefinitely.

[Turnleft080]

Obvious, except its not that simple, is it?

Your post #473 regarding mask wearing illustrates -

"Come Thursday I think it means I'm going to have a criminal record."
Don't get me started on those horrible lack of O2, runny nose, filthy disgusting, nappies things that you place around your
face that keep touching and placing in your pocket. Look at all those lovely facial expressions. Look at everyone just looking at the ground
while walking. Let me guess, did I write something like this at post #473 without looking it up.
A mentally drained mind really needs all the O2 it can get.
II'I wear one not for good health, only because Dan says so. That's it.
All the graphs that go up & down, up & down again for the last 9 months will happen wearing a mask or not.
In fact they work like lockdowns. They will prolong the virus. Ventilation works better.

"Am I ever gonna see your mask again. No way, get masked, mask off."

[currawong]

Don't get me started on those horrible lack of O2, runny nose, filthy disgusting, nappies things that you place around your
face that keep touching and placing in your pocket. Look at all those lovely facial expressions. Look at everyone just looking at the ground
while walking. Let me guess, did I write something like this at post #473 without looking it up.
A mentally drained mind really needs all the O2 it can get.
II'I wear one not for good health, only because Dan says so. That's it.
All the graphs that go up & down, up & down again for the last 9 months will happen wearing a mask or not.
In fact they work like lockdowns. They will prolong the virus. Ventilation works better.

"Am I ever gonna see your mask again. No way, get masked, mask off."

If it makes you feel any better, from the W.H.O -

"WHO has updated its guidance to advise that to prevent COVID-19 transmission effectively in areas of community transmission, governments should encourage the general public to wear masks"

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

"Encourage" ;)

[blubak]

Labor or Liberal diehards- who gives a fcvk right now? Let’s deal with COVID and pick the best leaders for the job.

If you could clone Gladys or Dan to run all the other states I know which one I would chose.
Couldnt agree more,what colour you wear or what political agenda you support has nothing to do with the best man for the job.
Let the facts make your mind up not what political party somebody in your family decided to vote for & advised you to go the same way & never consider the alternative.

[minigundiplomat]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green.Dot View Post (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen-post10903329.html#post10903329)
Labor or Liberal diehards- who gives a fcvk right now? Let’s deal with COVID and pick the best leaders for the job.

If you could clone Gladys or Dan to run all the other states I know which one I would chose.
Couldnt agree more,what colour you wear or what political agenda you support has nothing to do with the best man for the job.

Surely you mean best woman.......

[blubak]

Surely you mean best woman.......
Best man or woman,dont care what they are or what colour they represent,a good job is just that.

[Transition Layer]

McCoward’s house of cards is looking shakier by the day:

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/caught-out-mcgowan-s-claims-about-hard-border-contradicted-by-chief-health-officer-20201014-p56549.html

[vne165]

Agreed, the mistake of assuming broad support for hard borders will soon be revealed.

[Green.Dot]

It backs up what many of us have suggested for a long time saying all states except Vic and NSW should have unrestricted travel between them. From the article...

“Premier Mark McGowan has been “caught out on his political decision” to keep WA’s border closed after his Chief Health Officer told a parliamentary inquiry the state could open to five of the other seven Australian jurisdictions.”

:ugh:

[currawong]

The WA legislation sounds different to QLD...

Regarding the QLD border -

"The powers granted to the Chief Health Officer in a public health emergency are extensive."

"Although the final decision is made by the Chief Health Officer, the Premier is able to contribute information that the State Government considers relevant."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-15/queensland-coronavirus-borders-whos-in-charge/12753776

So in the QLD context at least, measures taken are unlikely to change regardless of the government of the day.

Given the calibre of our politicians, probably not a bad idea.

[KRviator]

So, yeah. You can now fly from UnZud to New South Wales, the Territory or South Australia, either direct, or via Sydney - and not have to undergo quarantine. Yet you cannot fly from anywhere in Australia to the Democratic Peoples Republic of Westralia without being forced to undergo 2 weeks mandatory - but completely voluntary remember! - detention at your own cost...

Yep, we're certainly living up to that concept of Federation alright! :mad:

[Ragnor]

TAS will open to NSW 2nd November. As proven NSW has the best contact tracing team in the country if not the world its been proven with their quick actions on potential breakouts that’s undeniable.

QLD and WA will find it harder to keep their borders closed past November without having to answer for it now. November will certainty be an interesting month for those two states. Hopefully QLD people have woken up to Queen P and that idiot SM who has demonstrated he is actually a child and should not be in the job.

[getaway]

So apparently now, any Qlders can drive as far south as feral Byron Bay without restriction(not sure why anyone would want to, except to get drugs) & apparently now anyone from NSW including SYD can drive to Byron Bay without restriction, so Qlders & those from SYD can mix at Byron, but they can't fly SYD/BNE/SYD or BNE/SYD/BNE without restrictions/quarantine.

Is this nuts ?

[brokenagain]

Is this nuts ?

Whilst I think it’s funny you started this thread under a different username and here you are again acting all sneaky sneaky with a new flash username, you do raise a very good point. It doesn’t really pass the pub test. It’s hard to see it as anything but political grandstanding.

With growing discontent in Queensland around the border closure, could we see a last minute pre election border announcement from Queen P as a cynical way to try win some more votes?

[Ragnor]

With growing discontent in Queensland around the border closure, could we see a last minute pre election border announcement from Queen P as a cynical way to try win some more votes?

This is exactly what she and that child idiot SM will do. They have the speech prepared already as to why the 28 days is no longer needed, it will involve ML doing so well so being close is no longer a greater threat as to what last week was blah blah blah.
To be honest I don’t want QLD ppl here, our testing is 3 times higher than theirs our contact tracing is ten fold Better than theirs and covid is running rampart in their sewage so one has to ask. Is QLD actually doing as good as they make out?

The even scarier thing is that QLD ppl will vote Queen P and Idiot SM back in which well.....I’ll stop there....

[Ragnor]

Today is the day, lets see if Queen P and that idiot SM side kick of hers make a rational, science based announcement.

[blubak]

Today is the day, lets see if Queen P and that idiot SM side kick of hers make a rational, science based announcement.
That side kick actually makes her look good(if thats possible),like u say comes out with all these useless statements that have no relevance to the issue hes attempting to get across.

[Stickshift3000]

Today is the day, lets see if Queen P and that idiot SM side kick of hers make a rational, science based announcement.

Before the Qld election? Just won't happen...

[Ladloy]

No excuses gladys! Don't be a hypocrite

[Square Bear]

Interestingly this afternoon the online Courier Mail had an online article stating that a decision on the border full opening would be made on the Friday prior to Saturdays vote.

Within a very short time frame the article disappeared.

Lets see what happens.

[slats11]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Xy3tP-BW5do

One of the best presentations you will ever see.

[dr dre]

One of the best presentations you will ever see.

How could've there have been a hysteria about lockdowns in his country which never really locked down to begin with and has let the virus run rampant?

I don't think we need to listen to this guy (a history writer btw) or his moronic countrymen across the Pacific for medical advice, how about follow the lead of our neighbours to the near north who've controlled the situation far more successfully.

[Ragnor]

This inept QLD are rally something. They are going to release a "road map" for border opening on Friday not sure why a road map is needed just open in damn thing, it shouldn't be closed anyway. In the mean time they let their resident hang out in Byron Bay without realizing over 1000 supposed highly infections and contagious Sydney and NSW people go.

[layman]

Ragnor

The NSW border is still closed to people in Victoria.

Even NSW residents, who have only been in regional Victoria, have to spend two weeks quarantine in Sydney to get home.

And NSW still doesn’t have a roadmap or timeline for opening their border.

[Square Bear]

Layman,
why would NSW need a roadmap or timeline for opening their border?.....Their borders are all ready open, with the only restrictions being to those that have been in Victoria within the last 14 days (with exceptions for Border residents etc). They are even allowing International NZ arrivals.

And fair in enough re restricting those who have been in Victoria. Even the Victorian Government is still cautious as to whether they have Covid under control or not......the Melbourne Metro still has the 25 mile “RIng of Steel”, so why would NSW allow unimpeded travel from Vic?

[layman]

Regional Victoria is ‘banned’ as well even with lower case numbers than Sydney.

The ACT has a list of Victorian postcodes that can come to Canberra without quarantine but that seems too hard for NSW

[Ragnor]

Ragnor

The NSW border is still closed to people in Victoria.

Even NSW residents, who have only been in regional Victoria, have to spend two weeks quarantine in Sydney to get home.

And NSW still doesn’t have a roadmap or timeline for opening their border.

Im sure even you, would agree Victoria is a different case all together. Gladys said this morning she is waiting to see if VIc ease restrictions further as she is of the opinion even Vic gov don’t have faith in their contact tracing.

[layman]

Sorry. Can't agree..

It seems NSW are unable / unwilling / too lazy to differentiate between regional Victoria and Melbourne.

The ACT manages this by examining postcodes. Why can't NSW do the same?

NSW residents can't return home even when they have been in Covid free areas in Victoria for months - unless of course they fly from Melbourne to Sydney, quarantine for 2 weeks ($3,000), before driving home. Almost back to the border, Eden, in the case of one bloke I have spoken to. He hasn't been home to his family since before August. Pre-Covid, he used to drive home every 2nd weekend.

We're now able to transit through NSW back to the ACT, but this has only changed this week. The area we're in has had 2 Covid cases since April ..,,,,

[getaway]

Before the Qld election? Just won't happen...
former qld premier beattie tells chukka to open borders asap

[goodonyamate]

Well there goes qld. That moron is scared of her own shadow, and with the timing of four unlinked cases, we can kiss travel goodbye again. All because some peanut took a tour of Sydney whilst sick.

[Ragnor]

Queen P is never going to open the border, not sure what would lead you to believe otherwise. W.A and QLD are just exposing their inadequate control of the virus. I understand they cant do what NSW are doing we just have to learn that those states will stay closed for the foreseeable future.

[Buster Hyman]

It seems NSW are unable / unwilling / too lazy to differentiate between regional Victoria and Melbourne.

Would've been a great PR exercise to be open to Regional Vic. Especially when you consider (from an Aviation perspective) that there's multiple airports in Vic capable of sustaining QLink or Rex and/or currently are. Hell, there's even Avalon fer cryin' out loud!

I still believe that the State Govt's. are the masters of their own destiny and it's worth looking at how necessary it is for their existence.

[blubak]

Well there goes qld. That moron is scared of her own shadow, and with the timing of four unlinked cases, we can kiss travel goodbye again. All because some peanut took a tour of Sydney whilst sick.
She needs to get her testing numbers up,it was great for her & her peanut sidekick to be sticking it into victoria when it suited but now she has to find another agenda.
No doubt the vic govt need to be made accountable for the hotel quarantine f up but overall the rules imposed(& yes,i hated them) have worked.
Almost 50,000 tests in the last 2 days,hopefully lo numbers continue.

[Ragnor]

Yep I agree. QLD carry on as if they’re the best whilst only conducting 900-2500 test a day. VIC are now killing it hopefully their contact tracing is up to the task tho. Gladys made a few very valid comments on WA and QLD today I would love to see those premiers reply to her comments, they would have nothing.

[Green.Dot]

Yep I agree. QLD carry on as if they’re the best whilst only conducting 900-2500 test a day. VIC are now killing it hopefully their contact tracing is up to the task tho. Gladys made a few very valid comments on WA and QLD today I would love to see those premiers reply to her comments, they would have nothing.

I can already see Anastasia Double-Chin pulling out the bullying card when everybody else “slams” their border shut to QLD when they have their turn at an outbreak.

[currawong]

I can already see Anastasia Double-Chin pulling out the bullying card when everybody else “slams” their border shut to QLD when they have their turn at an outbreak.

:confused:

Why?

If there is an outbreak, nobody will be going anywhere...

[Green.Dot]

:confused:

Why?

If there is an outbreak, nobody will be going anywhere...

Because she is a arrogant hypocrite.

It would be inhumane to lockdown QLDers in the sunshine state.

[Ragnor]

O.K lay your bets for today, As the election is tomorrow and this is her political swan song, I'm going that Queen P will only ease the border allowing people as far south as Port Macquarie maybe Newcastle, thus most likely not improving the aviation sector anyway. Definitely wont be allowing anyone from Sydney within 14 days to travel to QLD without hotel isolation.

[Ladloy]

Because she is a arrogant hypocrite.

It would be inhumane to lockdown QLDers in the sunshine state.
Gladys is a big hypocrite too. Asking for qld borders to open while vic border is shut.

[currawong]

Because she is a arrogant hypocrite.

It would be inhumane to lockdown QLDers in the sunshine state.

:confused:

QLD was locked down...

[goodonyamate]

Gladys is a big hypocrite too. Asking for qld borders to open while vic is shut.


do I really live in a country with such stupid people.

How long has NSW been out of lockdown and living with the virus? And how long has Victoria been out of lockdown and living with the virus?

NSW has proved, through tracing and testing, they can keep living.

VIC hasn’t even started, but I sure hope they can.

QLD has proved nothing, except that if you keep testing numbers low you won’t get any positive results. It is still in the community in QLD. It is being found in the sewerage at various places throughout the state.

QLD reminds of the old ostrich ‘head in the sand’. She gives the impression of doing something when actually she is doing nothing.

my family live in Brissy. I live in NSW. I can’t go and see them without quarantine, and they can’t come here then go home without quarantine (not even in their own home!)

we just had a lovely 2 weeks in Northern NSW where they met our little boy for the first time. Off they go back to QLD, no quarantine. So how is that different to them driving to my house just north of Sydney.

if VIC’s path out of lockdown mirrors NSW, and in 3 months time the NSW/VIC border is still closed, then I will agree about Gladys.

QLD has the dumbest CHO and premier in Australia’s history.
And given what happened in VIC, that’s really saying something.

[blubak]

Yes,couldnt agree more & what about the health minister,like i have said before,he makes queen p look good.
They need to get their testing going again before it drops to zero,oh wait,then they could bleat even harder about zero cases & slap each other on the back even harder.

[currawong]

I would encourage all to recall the results in QLD of the recent Federal election.

And then temper that with this -

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-28/qld-lnp-leader-deb-freckington-nsw-premier-opening-borders/12819658

[SRFred]

Gladys is a big hypocrite too. Asking for qld borders to open while vic border is shut.

Actually in NSW at least one NSW checkpoint leaves NSW residents at risk because it is 50 km from the border and NSW locals have to go through the checkpoint circus to get to town. There is nothing to stop Victorians entering and interacting with the locals and returning to Victoria. We've been told the reason for the location is that the ADF guys aren't allowed to drive on dirt roads or at night as they have hire cars!

[Square Bear]

Gladys is a big hypocrite too. Asking for qld borders to open while vic border is shut.

Bit rich, .....VICTORIA has shown how to reduce the transmission of the virus by virtue of imposing a very strict curfew, a 5 mile from home limit, shutting down business and shops, allowing its citizens out for a few hours, locking citizens in its Housing Commission Flats, and imposing a "Ring of Steel" around the Metro area. How soon some forget!!!

NSW has shown how to reduce the transmission by excellent contact tracing while still allowing the State to work and prosper with limited restrictions.

I can certainly understand the NSW Premier wanting to wait until VIC could prove they were as capable.

As for QLD....one can only sense that it is based on the Election and the Political advantage it give the incumbent, although I would doubt that the Tourism Industry (and those that were there employed) in SE Qld, Cairns or the Whitsunday area would thank her. The airline industry certainly doesn't.

[Ladloy]

do I really live in a country with such stupid people.

How long has NSW been out of lockdown and living with the virus? And how long has Victoria been out of lockdown and living with the virus?

NSW has proved, through tracing and testing, they can keep living.

VIC hasn’t even started, but I sure hope they can.

QLD has proved nothing, except that if you keep testing numbers low you won’t get any positive results. It is still in the community in QLD. It is being found in the sewerage at various places throughout the state.

QLD reminds of the old ostrich ‘head in the sand’. She gives the impression of doing something when actually she is doing nothing.

my family live in Brissy. I live in NSW. I can’t go and see them without quarantine, and they can’t come here then go home without quarantine (not even in their own home!)

we just had a lovely 2 weeks in Northern NSW where they met our little boy for the first time. Off they go back to QLD, no quarantine. So how is that different to them driving to my house just north of Sydney.

if VIC’s path out of lockdown mirrors NSW, and in 3 months time the NSW/VIC border is still closed, then I will agree about Gladys.

QLD has the dumbest CHO and premier in Australia’s history.
And given what happened in VIC, that’s really saying something.

Regional vic has been virtually covid free for months now and NSW now has similar active cases to Vic. Keep the border control in place and move the goalposts to the ring of steel, let regional victorians move on with their life and allow them access into NSW via the current permit system, and recheck the figures in 3-4 weeks and then release the Melbournians into NSW. This will free up Qlink and Rex to service Mildura and Albury.

[Ladloy]

Bit rich, .....VICTORIA has shown how to reduce the transmission of the virus by virtue of imposing a very strict curfew, a 5 mile from home limit, shutting down business and shops, allowing its citizens out for a few hours, locking citizens in its Housing Commission Flats, and imposing a "Ring of Steel" around the Metro area. How soon some forget!!!

NSW has shown how to reduce the transmission by excellent contact tracing while still allowing the State to work and prosper with limited restrictions.

I can certainly understand the NSW Premier wanting to wait until VIC could prove they were as capable.

As for QLD....one can only sense that it is based on the Election and the Political advantage it give the incumbent, although I would doubt that the Tourism Industry (and those that were there employed) in SE Qld, Cairns or the Whitsunday area would thank her. The airline industry certainly doesn't.
All of the new cases in Vic have been from people in isolation tied to clusters. The system is working.

[wheels_down]

I don’t think NSW will be sitting quietly now. What a blow.

A large chunk of Virgin staff are stood down until the end of Jan. It seems that they planned that one well, I don’t we will see much movement until the end of the School Holidays. In which is the end of the peak season.

I do feel for the QLD tourism operators who are potentially facing a lack of business for the first 3-4 months next year with large rainfall predicted.

[Wingspar]

Let’s see what Deb decides on Sunday!

[goodonyamate]

If she does win, her first act should be to sack the slimy weasel of a CHO

[Scooter Rassmussin]

Maybe people who were born in Australia and respect the place should have free passage between borders , A passport and Birth certificate should be all thats needed.
Remember the majority of Australians and Victorians are doing the right thing , a small minority of mostly foreign descent have no respect for Australia and would be happy to derail the system again , in my opinion .
It would help if the people causing breaches were imprisoned rather than let off .

[Wingspar]

As long as I don’t have to see or hear the Deputy Premier give a press conference again!
He makes running your fingernails down a blackboard seem like a calming thing to do!

[wheels_down]

As long as I don’t have to see or hear the Deputy Premier give a press conference again!
He makes running your fingernails down a blackboard seem like a calming thing to do!
Is it just me or does he seem a tad out of his depth?

I had no idea the state was so far under water in debt. I guess one thing about Deb, is the state will be run via Scomo, however if that results in much needed financial improvement then so be it.

[blubak]

Is it just me or does he seem a tad out of his depth?

I had no idea the state was so far under water in debt. I guess one thing about Deb, is the state will be run via Scomo, however if that results in much needed financial improvement then so be it.
I think hes a bit of a mummys boy,precious little person.
Its interesting to look at luxury escapes right now,90% of the deals are for queensland locations,shows you how desperate the tourism operators are for business up there.
Im sure though queen p & her tag along peanut would be happy to tell you what a great job they are doing for ALL queenslanders.

[DanV2]

In addition to Queensland opening up to the rest of NSW except Sydney.

WA will be opening up to QLD, SA, NT, TAS, ACT from November 14
NSW & VIC travellers or WA residents returning from NSW/VIC will still have to quarantine in WA.

So overall, the border situation after November 14 will basically be only "locked to Victorians" from most states. Still locked to Greater Syd (Qld) and all of NSW (WA).

https://www.businessnewsaus.com.au/articles/wa-to-cautiously-open-borders-to-eastern-states-from-14-november.html

[wheels_down]

The majority of crews in this country are Melbourne or Sydney based, and even those in Brisbane/Perth/Adelaide cycle aircraft via those two cities so really does not do much getting people back at work.

You can see why Alan is pissed as it still does not enable him to move much yet. In his book we are still playing around the edges.

Jetstar and Virgin have what, a 1/4 of crews based in Vic?

[Iron Bar]

Palmers High Court action must be looking promising. WA Govt’ wouldn’t want to be ordered to reopen.

[PoppaJo]

Greater Sydney is essentially the whole state in my employers book. It’s not a viable operation relying on regional pax to get the Sydney base moving.

Click of the fingers and she is closed again. I reckon that will play out soon after they open the gates to Greater Sydney again.

As mentioned elsewhere the consequences of not getting FNQ and SEQ tourism moving for a few months before potential months of rolling downpours early next year will destroy what hope is left.

You really need to pray we don’t get a cyclone this upcoming wet season. The met guys are a tad nervous.

[getaway]

In addition to Queensland opening up to the rest of NSW except Sydney.

WA will be opening up to QLD, SA, NT, TAS, ACT from November 14
NSW & VIC travellers or WA residents returning from NSW/VIC will still have to quarantine in WA.

So overall, the border situation after November 14 will basically be only "locked to Victorians" from most states. Still locked to Greater Syd (Qld) and all of NSW (WA).

https://www.businessnewsaus.com.au/articles/wa-to-cautiously-open-borders-to-eastern-states-from-14-november.htmlnew premier might open border to SYD on Sunday.

Looks like Sweden was only country to do the right thing & close nothing. Only deaths in old peoples homes (maybe they should have locked them down, maybe)

[getaway]

Greater Sydney is essentially the whole state in my employers book. It’s not a viable operation relying on regional pax to get the Sydney base moving.

Click of the fingers and she is closed again. I reckon that will play out soon after they open the gates to Greater Sydney again.

As mentioned elsewhere the consequences of not getting FNQ and SEQ tourism moving for a few months before potential months of rolling downpours early next year will destroy what hope is left.

You really need to pray we don’t get a cyclone this upcoming wet season.
LNP will hopefully win tomorrows qld election. CHO will be sacked, but will get ~$2m payout. Nuts, considering all the bad calls she's made.

[SOPS]

new premier might open border to SYD on Sunday.

Looks like Sweden was only country to do the right thing & close nothing. Only deaths in old peoples homes (maybe they should have locked them down, maybe)

I don’t things are going so great in Sweden.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-30/sweden-hits-highest-daily-coronavirus-case-number/12829990

[getaway]

I don’t things are going so great in Sweden.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-30/sweden-hits-highest-daily-coronavirus-case-number/12829990cases mean absolutely nothing. Deaths are what counts & none in general population who are healthy.

Nothing was closed, economy as normal.

It now appears you don't even need herd immunity as it turns out, corona is just a bad case of flu. Look at 100s of billions wasted & continue being wasted. Businesses & lives ruined & for what ?

[Stickshift3000]

CHO will be sacked, but will get ~$2m payout. Nuts, considering all the bad calls she's made.

Who will sack her and for what reason/s? The CHO is a public servant; not an employee of a political party.

[KRviator]

So, Sweden went from 4,944 deaths on June 08 to 5,934 today, a 20% increase in nearly 5 months, yet in that time, cases went from 71,667 cases to 121,167 a nearly 70% increase. The data doesn't lie, the fatality rate there is dropping substantially, even with increasing cases.

[getaway]

Who will sack her and for what reason/s? The CHO is a public servant; not an employee of a political party.the new qld premier will sack her silly, as soon as votes are counted.

[getaway]

So, Sweden went from 4,944 deaths on June 08 to 5,934 today, a 20% increase in nearly 5 months, yet in that time, cases went from 71,667 cases to 121,167 a nearly 70% increase. The data doesn't lie, the fatality rate there is dropping substantially, even with increasing cases.all deaths in sweden are old people & others who are vulnerable, so no need to close the country & everything in it. Close the nursing homes if you must. No nursing home residents are running around the country or flying anywhere. Same with cancer patients with reduced immunity.

[Stickshift3000]

the new qld premier will sack her silly, as soon as votes are counted.

It would have to come from the Minister, but sure your story sounds cool.

Entertain me more: for what reasons would she be sacked?

[Stickshift3000]

all deaths in sweden are old people & others who are vulnerable, so no need to close the country & everything in it. Close the nursing homes if you must. No nursing home residents are running around the country or flying anywhere. Same with cancer patients with reduced immunity.

All of them were old and vulnerable? Fake news.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

[murder most fowl]

Who will sack her and for what reason/s? The CHO is a public servant; not an employee of a political party.
Believe it is a contract position, you could choose not renew when the current one expires which is SOP for govt to move on people in higher positions. Whilst I don't agree with her, not a reason to boot her.

[Boe787]

I think Taiwan with 9 deaths....no lockdown, has done a bit better than Sweden.
one of the first to close border to China.
masks mandatory in public, social distancing, and a purpose built quarantine/hospital built after sars ready to go.
Western governments did nothing, despite continual warnings from the experts that a pandemic was inevitable.

[currawong]

Despite what the media says, make your own judgement.

Corrected for population.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&country=GBR~AUS~NOR~USA~SWE~BEL~FRA~IRL~ISR~TWN~NLD&region=World&deathsMetric=true&interval=total&perCapita=true&smoothing=0&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc

[MickG0105]

cases mean absolutely nothing. Deaths are what counts & none in general population who are healthy.

Nothing was closed, economy as normal.

Sweden's COVID-19 deaths per capita rate is nearly 17 times higher than ours and their economy is far from normal. They suffered a 20 percent more significant downturn in GDP than us, and their COVID-related spike in unemployment was 25 percent higher than ours and unlike ours, their unemployment is showing no signs of recovery (it's been stuck at 9+ percent for months).

By any objective public health or economic measure I wouldn't be holding Sweden up as an example of how to manage coronavirus.

... as it turns out, corona is just a bad case of flu.
Except that it manifestly is not just a bad case of flu. Coronavirus is currently the third most prevalent cause of death in the US. So third leading cause of death and that's from a late start at the end of February so covering just 8 months of the year.

That is most likely the case in the UK also - third leading cause of death (in Sweden it is currently number 5, possibly number 4 by year's end).

[1A_Please]

In a surprise to no one, QF has decided to close bookings to USA and UK until October 2021 at the earliest. Given the state of the virus overseas, this is expected and if no vaccine becomes viable will probably extend further. On a more positive note, they have kept bookings open for potential bubble locations like Japan, NZ, Singapore, Fiji and Hong Kong.

[SOPS]

I simply can’t believe that some people on here.. ( that I assume are professional pilots ), think this thing is ‘just the flu’. Have you read about the after affects if you survive? You may never fly again. What don’t some people get?

[vne165]

Palmers High Court action must be looking promising. WA Govt’ wouldn’t want to be ordered to reopen.
+1, spot on

[Ragnor]

By all the polls been run today, they have Labor winning so looks like indefinite border closure for SY and NSW as their demands will not be met.

[Superman1]

QLD has the dumbest CHO and premier in Australia’s history.

Yes unfortunately not a great talent pool in QLD, that’s obvious by the excessive number of those who bury themselves in the inflated public service positions up there.Even the police can opt to do overtime on their day off at double dollars by sitting in a marked car with flashing lights on at roadworks.....what a deal! VA HQ is just another good example where most wouldn’t last a day working for a competitive organisation in SYD or MEL, unfortunately down south it wouldn’t be acceptable catching waves by 4pm.

[Buster Hyman]

Qantas boss Alan Joyce has slammed the Queensland Government’s decision to keep Sydney banned from the state, saying it was “ridiculous” and warning it would simply drive holiday-makers to other destinations instead.
I think we can safely rule out QF HQ relocating to BNE now.

[krismiler]

No UK or US flights planned for the next 12 months.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-closes-bookings-on-us-uk-flights-through-to-october-2021

[Chris2303]

Sweden

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-sweden-hits-grim-virus-record-as-country-is-warned-infections-will-get-worse/SOUBPBGL76FRWRTJKYQB25BLDE/

[machtuk]

12 months ago who would have thought that this so called "land of the free" would become so divided and controlled by a bunch of grubby lying lunatics called State Premiers!

Australia's history books just got a chaptor of shear lunacy added!

[highflyer40]

So, Sweden went from 4,944 deaths on June 08 to 5,934 today, a 20% increase in nearly 5 months, yet in that time, cases went from 71,667 cases to 121,167 a nearly 70% increase. The data doesn't lie, the fatality rate there is dropping substantially, even with increasing cases.

I think you will find with most countries that unlike the first wave where deaths lagged behind by about a month this new wave was started with the return of universities with a lag of about a month to get to the at risk demographic and then the normal month to see the death rate start to increase. The next couple of weeks will see whether that holds true.

[Global Aviator]

No UK or US flights planned for the next 12 months.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-closes-bookings-on-us-uk-flights-through-to-october-2021

Different countries certainly act in different ways. Australia certainly looks like being locked down for some time to come, lucky it is a big country and as all borders open (hopefully) one can at least have domestic tourism. Fly from Brisbane to Broome and flight time is like flying overseas :8. While at the same time other countries like Singapore focus on negative testing and opening the economy.

In my humble opinion S.E.Asia will be back to 'normal' before many other places.

QF international it is a sad state of affairs when a company prefers to park aircraft than chase the work. As has been seen with the government assisted charter flights there is work out there that can be done without loosing money.

Back to ALL BORDERS TO OPEN. Fungers crossed that Straya once again becomes one, that includes that island just off the coast eh cuz, beached az. At least this would fire up tourism and help to revive the airline industry in the country.

[Chris2303]

12 months ago who would have thought that this so called "land of the free" would become so divided and controlled by a bunch of grubby lying lunatics called State Premiers!

Australia's history books just got a chaptor of shear lunacy added!

From the other side of the Tasman: Who would have thought that Aussies were capable and willing to show so much hatred towards their fellow countrymen/countrywomen. The "lucky country"? I don't think so, Tim

[goodonyamate]

From the other side of the Tasman: Who would have thought that Aussies were capable and willing to show so much hatred towards their fellow countrymen/countrywomen. The "lucky country"? I don't think so, Tim

agree.currently we are an embarrassment.

And the sad part is These bastard premiers will never be held to account for the damage they’ve caused.

[wheels_down]

QF international it is a sad state of affairs when a company prefers to park aircraft than chase the work. As has been seen with the government assisted charter flights there is work out there that can be done without loosing money.
.
How does one make money when your capped at a few dozen per flight. Please go on.

Your tunnel vision is off the charts.

[krismiler]

There would be an acceptable level of risk in establishing travel bubbles between countries with low rates of infection and which have demonstrated competence in dealing with the outbreak. Basically: Australian, New Zealand, Singapore,Taiwan, Japan, Thailand, Brunei, China, Hong Kong, Vietnam and possibly one or two more.

Two of the most popular destinations, Bali and Fiji would remain outside due to the high COVID rate in Indonesia, and whilst the rate in Fiji may be low, I’m not convinced they have the capability to monitor and manage the situation.

A whole change in outlook might occur, with Australians visiting countries they never considered before and new areas opening up for trade an investment. The kangaroo route to London will definitely return, but in the meantime there’s some lovely beaches and food in Vietnam.

[Global Aviator]

How does one make money when your capped at a few dozen per flight. Please go on.

Your tunnel vision is off the charts.

No problem at all Wheels. I do not have the exact costs of the tickets, just a little google and even then probably not entirely correct. A few guestimations in there for sure however it wouldn't be to far from correct.

LHR DRW -

42 Business - call it $4500 (however I am sure I read it was higher) = $189,000.
130 Premium & Economy - call it $2150 (actually $2500 with the taxes, plus Premium was more, however without knowing the exact pax in each class it is guesstimations) = $279,000.
Total revenue on the soft side = $468,000.

Not knowing where the aircraft originated or went after call it 30 hours of flying, $468,000 / 30 = $15,600 per hour.

Now do the sums on India.

As I said I know my numbers are not spot on, however for the argument you can see that it actually does work. No not the rate an airliner would normally want to achieve, however most likely not operating in the loss zone, who knows what the Government tipped in, backroom deals. I didn't see a public tender, did you?

Who has the tunnel vision? Please do correct me if I am wrong.

Back to the borders!

I should have been clearer in what I meant in the first place. Yes the airlines flying into Australia no doubt have their government support. Mind you charging up to 20k for First and not far off it for Business you can't blame the airline, plus no doubt flying around with a belly full of cargo. I have said all along that flying with 30-50 pax is not sustainable. There are however ways to make certain routes work. SQ for instance have been hauling massive amounts of belly cargo in. Without knowing exactly but I would imagine most flights into MEL would be the same as ZERO pax onboard, otherwise why would they be flying?

[Ladloy]

LNP will hopefully win tomorrows qld election.
Not even close.

[Ragnor]

WOW! QLD people are a strange bunch of people. Ah well this freight train crashing will be a good watch when these two idiots send QLD back further in to oblivion. QLD you voted don’t complain in 1yr when more of you are unemployed. AP wanted to do a feel good story at Sea World but they denied her as they didn’t support her as they are set to let 1000 staff go.

[Slezy9]

WOW! QLD people are a strange bunch of people. Ah well this freight train crashing will be a good watch when these two idiots send QLD back further in to oblivion. QLD you voted don’t complain in 1yr when more of you are unemployed. AP wanted to do a feel good story at Sea World but they denied her as they didn’t support her as they are set to let 1000 staff go.

It’s almost like the majority of QLDers support the Premiers policy’s.

[goodonyamate]

It’s almost like the majority of QLDers support the Premiers policy’s.

Why wouldn’t they. As long as the benefits keep flowing in, QLDers will not bother taking the blinkers off. They’ll just keep expecting the rest of Australia to pick up the tab.

FNQ is farked now. Say goodbye to tourism.

[Ragnor]

It’s almost like the majority of QLDers support the Premiers policy’s.

Hey I agree, I guess they do QLD ppl are a very strange bunch. Like I said I hope they don’t complain in 12 months time when they are into the hole so far that they can’t get out.

Tourist business rejected AP notability Sea World, they didn’t want her there as they didn’t support her they said QLD is not enough to support their industry. So she was left frolicking on a beach. I hope for their sake she has a plan to help them out for the long term. AJ might be on the money other Aussies fed up with it now they will surely plan to holiday else where. I know I am.

But yes QLD ppl support what she is doing. Let’s see how much support she had when JK finishes in March and there is nothing left as borders are closed. As we know she will “slam it shut” if there is one case in regional.

[goodonyamate]

What has been becoming more and more evident throughout this, is how spineless the Federal Government are.

Don’t even try and tell me there isn’t a way they could take control.

never been more embarrassed or ashamed to be Australian in my life. in fact ‘Australian’ isn’t even a thing anymore.

[Ladloy]

What has been becoming more and more evident throughout this, is how spineless the Federal Government are.

Don’t even try and tell me there isn’t a way they could take control.

never been more embarrassed or ashamed to be Australian in my life. in fact ‘Australian’ isn’t even a thing anymore.
Even a federal coronavirus plan would be great, let alone border control. Too busy deflecting accusations of corruption

[blubak]

WOW! QLD people are a strange bunch of people. Ah well this freight train crashing will be a good watch when these two idiots send QLD back further in to oblivion. QLD you voted don’t complain in 1yr when more of you are unemployed. AP wanted to do a feel good story at Sea World but they denied her as they didn’t support her as they are set to let 1000 staff go.
I take my hat off to the seaworld owners for not allowing her in,why do we continually buckle to these people that we as tax payers pay for.
They might like to play god & tell us how good they are but more of the public need to stand up to their antics.
There are many that criticise certain journalists for showing no respect to the vic premier,well who cares if hes lying,he & all the other premiers are accountable to the public they represent & they have the option to resign if they dont like being asked for the truth.

[Green.Dot]

This Labor win has just proven our theory that those who have been largely unaffected by COVID, (ie not in tourism, hospitality, travel, airlines etc) are unwilling to accept any level of risk to their own little bubble moving forward.

Let hope that if a vaccine comes out it works to some degree!

[Global Aviator]

This Labor win has just proven our theory that those who have been largely unaffected by COVID, (ie not in tourism, hospitality, travel, airlines etc) are unwilling to accept any level of risk to their own little bubble moving forward.

Let hope that if a vaccine comes out it works to some degree!

Yes thats now 2 for 2 with Covid elections.

[Ragnor]

Well, we will see WA closed until March to VIC and NSW their 28 day demand will not be met. I really wish Gladys would also play hard ball and only allow NSW resident enter internationally. If you’re QLD, WA, VIC or anywhere else you enter via that state border.

[machtuk]

I'm not surprised the heartless Palachook got back in, she rode the Covid bull**** fear wave right up to the sheeples doors to create hysteria , she's one cunning politician!

Australia us such a divided country, there's no unity, that's our biggest issue as a nation!

[dr dre]

I'm not surprised the heartless Palachook got back in, she rode the Covid bull**** fear wave right up to the sheeples doors to create hysteria , she's one cunning politician!

Australia us such a divided country, there's no unity, that's our biggest issue as a nation!

Get over it. She won fair and square. It’s obvious a majority of people support decisive action controlling this pandemic, as evidenced by this election, the NZ election and Dan A’s and Mark McG’s majority opinion support in Vic and WA. The Far right vote collapsed (One Nation abandoned and Clive’s vote non existent) and despite every paper in the state being owned by Murdoch she still prevailed, with an increased vote share.

Don’t right wingers criticise lefties for not listening to the “silent majority” and labelling their opponents as “deplorables”? You’ve basically done the same. When you work with a leader instead of against them and don’t insult the voting public you’ll probably find you’ll be more successful.

[Green.Dot]

Get over it. She won fair and square. It’s obvious a majority of people support decisive action controlling this pandemic, as evidenced by this election.

I think Machtuk has gotten over it- he even acknowledged she is cunning. We all have to get used to it, this is the new norm in life and politics, like it or not.

[Ragnor]

Yes she won democracy is a brilliant thing, just like seniority not perfect but it’s the system we have. Good luck to the state of QLD moving forward I hope you can support your own local tourist industry. So far data has proven otherwise but we will see.

[galdian]

Deb Flek lost more than Queen P won - if you can't land a blow when the state's had years of mismanagement, financial decline and ongoing hardship (currently under the excuse of CV19) something's wrong.

So accepting she won the politics one simple Q: is her attitude doing the right thing by the state?? A basic Yes or No will suffice.
The politics is one thing, the direction and future of the state a totally separate matter.

I was thinking of using the word leadership but when you have a one trick pony saying "I saved you all from death, you must vote for me" stuff all leadership to be found IMHO.

On an unrelated topic - any bets on how long before Jackie Trad is found a suitable state government sinecure with appropriate salary/lurks and perks for the life of the government??
I'd guess probably around xmas/new year when the usual dump of releases/statements happens to a populace who are tuned out for the holidays.

Anyhow apparently Queenslanders reckon another 4 years of Queen P's the way to go for the state. :p
God bless 'em, good luck with that. :ok:

[C441]

It’s almost like the majority of QLDers support the Premiers policy’s.
A quick look at the trends suggests that it is the older demographic who've swung away from the LNP and One Nation towards the perceived safety of last 7 months, particularly in areas like the Sunshine Coast and Hervey Bay. Like all opposition parties in Australia (and probably NZ as well), their ability to be seen and heard was buried in an avalanche of Premier's and CHO's press conferences extolling the virtues of their policy "to keep you Queenslanders (insert other jurisdiction here) safe". Even Albo's federal mob are finding it hard to be heard despite Senate Estimates revelations.

Most elections revolve around the respective leaders but in this almost one-issue poll, the incumbent Premier/PM is always going to have a head start.

Anyhow apparently Queenslanders reckon another 4 years of Queen P's the way to go for the state. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/tongue.gif
Whilst not a fan of Annastacia, I do hope she sees out the full term. Even a few months of the smarmy, smirking Deputy Premier being elevated to the top job would be too much.

[getaway]

I'm not surprised the heartless Palachook got back in, she rode the Covid bull**** fear wave right up to the sheeples doors to create hysteria , she's one cunning politician!

Australia us such a divided country, there's no unity, that's our biggest issue as a nation!
It's pala chuck not chook. In Qld she is known as chukka.

Her father, the former member, was always referred to as pala chuck.

Spin drs thought pala chez sounded less foreign.

[Global Aviator]

Well, we will see WA closed until March to VIC and NSW their 28 day demand will not be met. I really wish Gladys would also play hard ball and only allow NSW resident enter internationally. If you’re QLD, WA, VIC or anywhere else you enter via that state border.

In a perfect world people would be able to repatriate directly to their home town. Unfortunately due to the caps it simply can’t happen. People will book flights to the first Australian city they can get to. In many cases spending ridiculous amounts of money.

Vic screwed the pooch on quarantine as we all know. Quarantine does right works, nowhere should be afraid of repatriations and quarantine. If done right.

With no international flights to Melbourne or Darwin (apart from the Gov saving the day flights) that makes it impossible for people to fly to where they live if that’s home.

[Ragnor]

Nope, they should repatriate to their home state, thats their elected leader to raise the cap to allow them to been almost 8 months now time for other states to do their bit and stop hiding behind their false achievements. QLD, WA, TAS all took the easy options, as AP has said NSW is a bees d!ck away from an outbreak lets not let it get to that. NSW should not be left with the bill of residents of other states. I understand they pay for hotel, but NSW picks the tab up for testing, supply of law enforcement, bus hire the list goes on.

[Global Aviator]

Nope, they should repatriate to their home state, thats their elected leader to raise the cap to allow them to been almost 8 months now time for other states to do their bit and stop hiding behind their false achievements. QLD, WA, TAS all took the easy options, as AP has said NSW is a bees d!ck away from an outbreak lets not let it get to that. NSW should not be left with the bill of residents of other states. I understand they pay for hotel, but NSW picks the tab up for testing, supply of law enforcement, bus hire the list goes on.

I agree 100%, fact is though it is not possible. I’ve had many friends trying to come home, 3,4,5,6,+ cancelled flights, bit the bullet and pay for a first class or business class ticket to increase the chances. Still flights cancelled. Hence why people will jump on a flight to anywhere possible, you can’t blame the person.

The government or rather lack of unity in government has caused this mess. One must quarantine where one lands, the only exception the very few international transits that can be approved. It is a cluster fcuk of huge proportions. The general Aussie doesn’t realise how bad the situation is. There are over 30,000 still registered with DFAT wanting to come home. Who knows the real numbers with not everyone registered with DFAT.

States are the ones who decide the caps not the feds, hence it is even more of a cluster. There is little unity, we have all seen it in the media, leaders blaming ScoMo and the other way around. Who’s on first?

[Ragnor]

I understand that. My point is, if Premiers want to spruce about keeping their residents “safe” well, the rules should change to reflect. NSW residents can only book a flight bound to Sydney. QLD residents can only book for Brisbane and Perth etc. I bet the mantra will change. End of the day why is Gladys worried about QLD, WA SA residents stuck over seas she doesn’t need their vote we all know Covid is now a political machine.

[Ladloy]

NSW now has the most active cases out of any state.

[Global Aviator]

I understand that. My point is, if Premiers want to spruce about keeping their residents “safe” well, the rules should change to reflect. NSW residents can only book a flight bound to Sydney. QLD residents can only book for Brisbane and Perth etc. I bet the mantra will change. End of the day why is Gladys worried about QLD, WA SA residents stuck over seas she doesn’t need their vote we all know Covid is now a political machine.

I agree with you. If only everything was perfect. Not only do people have to pay huge airfares to go where they don’t want to go, when they get out it’s another airfare and more travel......

Straya!

[Ragnor]

NSW now has the most active cases out of any state.

And that is why each state resident needs to fly directly to their capital city, of the cap is to low email your local MP and raise the issue, all other state residents go on our tally makes us look bad when in fact NSW is doing the best by a country mile.

[jrfsp]

I understand that. My point is, if Premiers want to spruce about keeping their residents “safe” well, the rules should change to reflect. NSW residents can only book a flight bound to Sydney. QLD residents can only book for Brisbane and Perth etc. I bet the mantra will change. End of the day why is Gladys worried about QLD, WA SA residents stuck over seas she doesn’t need their vote we all know Covid is now a political machine.

And how does that work, when for instance, from the USA, can only fly into NSW? ACT, TAS, NT dont have any international flights....

[Ragnor]

They can take it up with their member of parliament. At this stage I only care NSW residents fly in to Sydney to keep them safe.

[Global Aviator]

They can take it up with their member of parliament. At this stage I only care NSW residents fly in to Sydney to keep them safe.

Ok I’ll leave this now. Australia is a country, it should be a united country, it is far from that.

Quarantine is in place for a reason, sure we can debate home quarantine and other methods but the gov has decided it hotel quarantine.

Australians stuck around the world just need to get home, who really cares where? Yes in an ideal world to where they want to go but that ain’t happening. Welcome them anywhere, do a little research and see the heartache many have gone though to get home.

Back to open borders -

It is great to see Aus opening up, bring on domestic tourism!

[Ragnor]

Hey I want open borders but certain states have made it political. One state just voted on it so let’s make them realize what they actually voted for and NSW be selective who comes, only NSW residents. I want to be one country but, as seen recently we are apparently not. I’m livid at the situation and how it is being handled now we will be flying to Melbourne before QLD and that to me is just wrong.

[MickG0105]

And as an aside…… the Greens candidate in our electorate is third on first preferences (28%), but is in the box seat to win once preferences are distributed, currently leading the sitting Labor candidate 53% to 47%. It does make one wonder sometimes…..
Ordinarily it would be highly unusual for a candidate placed third on primary votes to win a seat once preferences are distributed. Not impossible but certainly highly unusual.

Based on the info you've shared I've inferred that you're in Grace Grace's seat of McConell where the Greens' Kirsten Lovejoy is third behind the LNP's Pinky Singh. For Lovejoy to take that seat she needs to be ahead of Singh at the sixth round of preference distributions such that she picks up the LNP's preferences. That is very unlikely to occur. Lovejoy currently trails Singh by 710 votes and there are 1,255 votes for fourth place and below candidates. Lovejoy's problem is that 437 of those votes are split between One Nation and Palmer's UAP so she's not likely to pick up many of them whereas Singh should pick some, if not most, of them up. There's also anti-Greens independent Miranda Bertram's 175 votes that will go anywhere other than to Lovejoy.

Even if Lovejoy picks up all other preferences she will not finish ahead Singh come the sixth round of distributions meaning that she will be eliminated and her votes will be distributed as preferences; they will flow predominantly to Labor. Grace will end up retaining the seat with about a 60/40 2PP.

[currawong]

You people still don't get it.

All the noise "blaming" the premier of QLD re borders got everybody believing it was her decision to make.

Meaning she also got to take the credit, for a decision she didn't make.

Sad really, single issue election, decided on an illusion.

"These directions have all been made under the Queensland Chief Health Officer’s power to give directs to assist in containing, or to respond to, the spread of COVID-19 within the community"

https://justiceconnect.org.au/resources/how-the-queensland-governments-emergency-restrictions-on-covid-19-work/

:ugh:

[Ladloy]

And as an aside…… the Greens candidate in our electorate is third on first preferences (28%), but is in the box seat to win once preferences are distributed, currently leading the sitting Labor candidate 53% to 47%. It does make one wonder sometimes…..
Federally the Greens generally get 10% of the primary vote but do not have 10% of the representation. Nats on the other hand....

[Turnleft080]

I watched Gladiator a few nights ago, and one comment that Marcus Aurelius said to Maximus was "My powers will transfer
to you Maximus, Commodus cannot become Emperor, he is not a moral man. I want you Maximus to end the senators
corruption and free Rome."

Well here we are 2000 years on nothing has changed.

[JustinHeywood]

Federally the Greens generally get 10% of the primary vote but do not have 10% of the representation. Nats on the other hand....

I’ll bet that sounds impressive to you but that’s the way our democracy works. The National Party wins seats with much more than 10% of the votes IN THAT SEAT.

Seeing that we’re making unsupported assertions, I would argue that the Greens exercise vastly more power and more media attention than is justified by their ~10% support.

[Ladloy]

I’ll bet that sounds impressive to you but that’s the way our democracy works. The National Party wins seats with much more than 10% of the votes IN THAT SEAT.

Seeing that we’re making unsupported assertions, I would argue that the Greens exercise vastly more power and more media attention than is justified by their ~10% support.
It's not impressive and you missed my point. I was essentially saying the same thing, that's how democracy works. If you want to talk about power and media attention, look at the constant corruption by Nationals members and the zero media attention it garners. Water Buy backs by Barnarby, Sports rort, everything that Barilaro does, Michael Mccormick helping out his mates from Rex. It seems to be silenced by the newscorp media pretty ******* quick.

[Section28- BE]

Compulsory Preferential Voting in QLD.....

rgds all
S28- BE

ECQ link here: https://www.ecq.qld.gov.au/how-to-vote/voting-systems

an Extract:Counting a full preference vote

The first step is checking each vote is formal by ensuring all the boxes are properly numbered on the ballot paper.
Polling officials then count first preferences by looking for the number one (1) next to a candidate’s name and allocating the vote to that person.
Next, the person with the lowest number of first preference votes is eliminated from the count and their second preferences are allocated to the remaining candidates.
Now, the next person with the lowest number of votes is eliminated and their preferences are distributed.
This process of elimination continues until just two candidates remain and one has the majority of votes.
Once the result is clear, the Commission declares the successful candidate.

Media from- When 'it' happened, ex 2016:

Ex ABC News: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-21/compulsory-prefential-voting-returns-qld-parliament-passes-bill/7348172

Ex the BNE Times: https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/government-wrong-foots-lnp-on-electoral-reform-20160421-goc3bs.html

[MickG0105]

Federally the Greens generally get 10% of the primary vote but do not have 10% of the representation. Nats on the other hand....
That's in the House of Reps under full preferential voting. That is not the case in the Senate under proportional representation voting; in the Senate the Greens are marginally over-represented.

[JustinHeywood]

It's not impressive and you missed my point. I was essentially saying the same thing, that's how democracy works. If you want to talk about power and media attention, look at the constant corruption by Nationals members and the zero media attention it garners. Water Buy backs by Barnarby, Sports rort, everything that Barilaro does, Michael Mccormick helping out his mates from Rex. It seems to be silenced by the newscorp media pretty ******* quick.

So the evil Newscorp somehow ‘silences’ the ABC, Fairfax, Guardian etc about massive LNP corruption? Makes no sense at all.

That’s the trouble with this whole border issue. When we should be sensibly pulling together, too many idiots on all sides just make it all about their personal political hobbyhorse.

It’s too big an issue to be looking at it only with our partisan political glasses.

[currawong]

"That’s the trouble with this whole border issue. When we should be sensibly pulling together, too many idiots on all sides just make it all about their personal political hobbyhorse."

Too right.

Often thought watching the reportage of late, "how is that meant to help?"

[PoppaJo]

Drive around Cairns. Tourism might be open but are trading on average 70% down. Many actually had less cash burn with closed businesses and jobkeeper active. I know some have actually closed all together not even risking the upcoming wet season which is expected to bring a drenching for months.

Much support was offered this election around tourism marketing. Zero point of nobody can come. The CNY crowds won’t be coming in a few months, and god help us if a cyclone rolls on in soon, which appears bloody likely!

[601]

The s#!t will hit the fan on Qld when JK stops.
If the Qld Govt was picking up the tab for JK, the borders would have been opened long ago what ever the CMO said.
Actually come to think of it, the CMO did say that money counts, but only if you are a "star" be it film or sport.
People who have real jobs don't count.

[Ragnor]

You people still don't get it.

All the noise "blaming" the premier of QLD re borders got everybody believing it was her decision to make.

Meaning she also got to take the credit, for a decision she didn't make.

Sad really, single issue election, decided on an illusion.

"These directions have all been made under the Queensland Chief Health Officer’s power to give directs to assist in containing, or to respond to, the spread of COVID-19 within the community"

https://justiceconnect.org.au/resources/how-the-queensland-governments-emergency-restrictions-on-covid-19-work/

:ugh:

Excuse me “you people”

How do you explain WA CMO recommending it’s safe to open their border months ago but WA premier overrides that CMO. We only know that because of a Clive Palmer.

Same reason Queen P won’t release QLD CMO documents on her decisions on the border it’s all a big secret. JY only says what she is told to say at the press conferences.

[Ladloy]

So the evil Newscorp somehow ‘silences’ the ABC, Fairfax, Guardian etc about massive LNP corruption? Makes no sense at all.

That’s the trouble with this whole border issue. When we should be sensibly pulling together, too many idiots on all sides just make it all about their personal political hobbyhorse.

It’s too big an issue to be looking at it only with our partisan political glasses.

Fairfax is headed by Costello, ABC by Buttrose who is hesvily tied to the LNP and no one takes the Guardian seriously. The narrative is controlled, just look at the last 20 years of newscorp supporting the LNP at every state election. A news conglomerate should be independent. There's the partisan stain we have on our society.

Everyone is sensibly pulling together in their respective states as border closures are incredibly popular especially in WA and Tas. QLD now made their decision that they support border closures too. We suffer as airline employees and so does the tourism industry. Vic has now pulled its head in, hopefully everything will be open soon.

[C441]

For Lovejoy to take that seat she needs to be ahead of Singh at the sixth round of preference distributions such that she picks up the LNP's preferences. That is very unlikely to occur. Lovejoy currently trails Singh by 710 votes and there are 1,255 votes for fourth place and below candidates. Lovejoy's problem is that 437 of those votes are split between One Nation and Palmer's UAP so she's not likely to pick up many of them whereas Singh should pick some, if not most, of them up.
Yep, absolutely correct. I was looking at earlier figures where the projection was that the Greens candidate would slightly outpoll the LNP even though she was 400 votes behind at the time. Grace Grace, the Labor incumbent, seems now certain to retain the seat.

[MickG0105]

Grace Grace, the Labor incumbent, seems now certain to retain the seat.
This time, yes. Plenty of alarm bells ringing for Ignazia Graziella though. McConell in 2020 looks similar enough to South Brisbane in 2017 for the Greens to be thinking that it's gettable in 2024.

[currawong]

Excuse me “you people”

How do you explain WA CMO recommending it’s safe to open their border months ago but WA premier overrides that CMO. We only know that because of a Clive Palmer.

Same reason Queen P won’t release QLD CMO documents on her decisions on the border it’s all a big secret. JY only says what she is told to say at the press conferences.

I will say this really slowly so you understand.

QLD is not WA.

They have different systems. Both of which are different to NSW.

Control passed to the CHO in QLD on January 29 this year when the health emergency was declared (in QLD) Includes legislative powers.

No need to call it in NSW as the CMO already has extensive powers. Extensive meaning "any means necessary" extensive.

https://www.health.qld.gov.au/system-governance/legislation/cho-public-health-directions-under-expanded-public-health-act-powers"Who makes the decision to close Queensland's borders?""On paper, it's Chief Health Officer Dr Jeannette Young, but she would be discussing those decisions with key players in the Government.""Does the Premier have any say on the border?"
"Although the final decision is made by the CHO, the Premier is able to contribute information that the State Government considers relevant."

Source - Bond University Law Professor Jonathan Crowe

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-15/queensland-coronavirus-borders-whos-in-charge/12753776

[1A_Please]

I will say this really slowly so you understand.

QLD is not WA.

They have different systems. Both of which are different to NSW.

Control passed to the CHO in QLD on January 29 this year when the health emergency was declared (in QLD) Includes legislative powers.

No need to call it in NSW as the CMO already has extensive powers. Extensive meaning "any means necessary" extensive.

https://www.health.qld.gov.au/system-governance/legislation/cho-public-health-directions-under-expanded-public-health-act-powers"Who makes the decision to close Queensland's borders?""On paper, it's Chief Health Officer Dr Jeannette Young, but she would be discussing those decisions with key players in the Government.""Does the Premier have any say on the border?"
"Although the final decision is made by the CHO, the Premier is able to contribute information that the State Government considers relevant."

Source - Bond University Law Professor Jonathan Crowe

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-15/queensland-coronavirus-borders-whos-in-charge/12753776
What a load of rubbish. The CHO holds their role at the complete discretion of the premier so, in effect, the CHO will do whatever the premier tells her to. So the relevant information that the state government contributes is "do it or else"!

[currawong]

What a load of rubbish. The CHO holds their role at the complete discretion of the premier so, in effect, the CHO will do whatever the premier tells her to. So the relevant information that the state government contributes is "do it or else"!

Source please.

"What the chief health officer in Queensland says goes, it's the law."

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/leave-her-alone-ama-defends-qld-chief-health-officer-over-border-closures

[wheels_down]

Worked for the Public service before? That’s my source.

Having worked in the building, if your telling me a Labor premier is taking orders from some public servant ,well it sounds like your living on mars my friend. I actually nearly fell over when I read that.

Spare me the laws. Same down south. What Dan wants, is what Dan most certainly gets.

[currawong]

Worked for the Public service before? That’s my source.

Having worked in the building, if your telling me a Labor premier is taking orders from some public servant ,well it sounds like your living on mars my friend. I actually nearly fell over when I read that.

Spare me the laws. Same down south. What Dan wants, is what Dan most certainly gets.

So you don't reckon the electorate got it wrong?

Because I certainly do.

[wheels_down]

So you don't reckon the electorate got it wrong?

Because I certainly do.
Got what wrong? Who they elected? Of course it’s wrong.

[currawong]

Got what wrong? Who they elected? Of course it’s wrong.

Indeed.

My contention is the election was won/ lost on the border issue.

When in fact the border situation was not going to change regardless of who was premier.

Due to the legislation as explained above.

And, as you contend, if it does in fact come from the premier, this -

"Opposition leader Deb Frecklington has backed the decision to close the Queensland border to NSW"

https://www.4bc.com.au/queensland-opposition-backs-chief-health-officer-wont-budge-on-borders/

"Opposition Leader Deb Frecklington has sought to distance herself from NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian's comment that she would "definitely open the border" if elected."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-28/qld-lnp-leader-deb-freckington-nsw-premier-opening-borders/12819658

[rattman]

Indeed.

My contention is the election was won/ lost on the border issue.

When in fact the border situation was not going to change regardless of who was premier.

Due to the legislation as explained above.

And, as you contend, if it does in fact come from the premier, this -

"Opposition leader Deb Frecklington has backed the decision to close the Queensland border to NSW"

https://www.4bc.com.au/queensland-opposition-backs-chief-health-officer-wont-budge-on-borders/

"Opposition Leader Deb Frecklington has sought to distance herself from NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian's comment that she would "definitely open the border" if elected."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-28/qld-lnp-leader-deb-freckington-nsw-premier-opening-borders/12819658


Only after months of saying the border should be open or following morrision around like a puppy dog when he was saying we should reopen borders. But honestly her screw ups were the curfew plan, getting reported by her own party over a dinner party with developers or a multitude of a massive projects that were uncosted ie 4 lane bruce highway gympie to cairns. 33 billion cost but no plan on where the money was coming from, then in next breath complaining about lab taking out loans. Or the standard health policy of "clear waiting times" same policy that newman had but for some unexplainable reason if you sack 10% of Qhealth employees somehow the queues get longer. But again no actual details on how they would do it.

On the curfew plan, they announced a plan that kids of the street after 10 (depending on age) would be taken home and the parents fined. Heres something betting the kid in question would give zero ***** about, well except maybe the beating that could be on the cards. It took them a few weeks to come up with a policy about what would happen to these kids, like being taken into diversion centers, handed over a social workers etc. But in that 2 weeks the media had moved on and it was old news and they dont care about old news. This policy arguably cost them the win in the 3 townsville seats

Labor did not win, this was for the LNP to win, but the LNP lost due to themselves

One of them is lying
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/queensland-lnp-leader-wanted-border-open-months-ago-nsw-premier-says-20201028-p569gg.html

from debs facebook on 10th of juneLabor’s border shambles is closing businesses and costing jobs across the state.

Businesses need certainty which is why the LNP is calling for our borders to re-open to all Australians in July.

It’s time to restart our economy and secure local jobs.

**edit** I believe for a functioning democracy you need at least 2, preferably more competent functioning parties. Hopefully the LNP figure that opposition they have 4 years where they can brainstorm policies and plans then cost them out make sure they are throroughly detailed. Then throw in the filing cabinet and then once the next election is looming they can pull them and review and modify the ones they want to take to next election. There is absolutely no reason that the oposition should be caught out with a poorly costed or a detailed plan when its fixed length. You know down the day when the election is going to be

[Section28- BE]

Apparently, 'Dog Whistling' - don't Werk.......????

Whom, knew...... Link here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-02/qld-election-opposition-leader-deb-frecklington-steps-aside-lnp/12834976

rgds all
S28- BE

a brief Extract:Queensland's Opposition Leader Deb Frecklington says she will step down as party leader following the Liberal National Party's electoral defeat at the weekend. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-31/qld-election-labor-wins-annastacia-palaszczuk-premier/12832688)Key points:

Deb Frecklington has stood aside with a new leader to be appointed in coming days
The outgoing leader says she takes responsibility for electoral defeat
Deputy Leader Tim Mander and Broadwater MP David Crisafulli are suggested replacements

Talks about the LNP's leadership began almost immediately after the party lost a number of seats at the state election.

Ms Frecklington declared on Saturday night she planned to continue as LNP leader but said she has since reflected on her future.

Once the final vote is tallied, Ms Frecklington said she will convene a party meeting to appoint a new leader and will not run as a candidate.

.....

[Ragnor]

Good to see Victoria on the up and up 4th day with zero. Hopefully Gladys will make the announcement tomorrow on when that hard border will drop between NSW and VIC.

[mrdeux]

Hey I want open borders but certain states have made it political. One state just voted on it so let’s make them realize what they actually voted for and NSW be selective who comes, only NSW residents. I want to be one country but, as seen recently we are apparently not. I’m livid at the situation and how it is being handled now we will be flying to Melbourne before QLD and that to me is just wrong.

Well, she did say that Queensland hospitals were for Queenslanders, so I guess closing Sydney airport (and quarantine) to her constituents would be a reasonable extension of her own policy.

[MickG0105]

Good to see Victoria on the up and up 4th day with zero. Hopefully Gladys will make the announcement tomorrow on when that hard border will drop between NSW and VIC.
Given what is now known about the disease's incubation period it would be foolhardy in the extreme to use a 5 day case free period as the arbiter for lifting restrictions. You'd want to look at at least 14 days case free before releasing the pigeons.

[Ragnor]

Yes I agree, considering the 111 days of being locked down I’m sure Victorians would be pleased with the immediate results and that seem to be positive. The test will be in the coming weeks when there is one or two cases and how they handle them.
Seems here in NSW we always have these annoying one or two cases that keep popping up but are well handled. It would be good if each state resident flew directly to their home state, so it’s time for WA and QLD to step up and take their residents back then NSW could escape those pesky false headlines of “covid cases rise” blah blah blah from international travelers. Other states want to block NSW from traveling I would be very happy if NSW stopped international travels that do not reside in NSW.

[Bend alot]

Yes I agree, considering the 111 days of being locked down I’m sure Victorians would be pleased with the immediate results and that seem to be positive. The test will be in the coming weeks when there is one or two cases and how they handle them.
Seems here in NSW we always have these annoying one or two cases that keep popping up but are well handled. It would be good if each state resident flew directly to their home state, so it’s time for WA and QLD to step up and take their residents back then NSW could escape those pesky false headlines of “covid cases rise” blah blah blah from international travelers. Other states want to block NSW from traveling I would be very happy if NSW stopped international travels that do not reside in NSW.


Had the options pre Covid been able to avoid using Sydney for my flights and cruises, I would happily avoided the place like the plague.

[Turnleft080]

Regarding 4 days of zero cases today was cup day and 30 degrees. I would say two to 300,000 people would of attended beaches from
Williamstown all the way round to Rosebud maybe more. It will be interesting if all of them were tested for covid in the next 10 days.
If zero cases amongst that lot, then it is safe to say that covid is caught indoors not outdoors. Plus more than half were not wearing
masks or not properly. There lies the paradox. Dan Andrews said a few months back if you walk out your front door you will die and
kill others. All the beach goers at Bondi/Manly have also proved no cases. Must be that Vit D thing that all CHOs don't want to know
about because it's against their philosophy in fact have any health departments around the world mentioned boosting your immune
system and good gut flora.

If you sneeze does UVA/UVB obliterate and dissipate Covid, that's another good question. More tests need to be done
on this and Vit D. Sneezing indoors is so much more contagious due to no ventilation and possibly know sunlight hitting it.
I suspect the mask thing will be optional outdoors and compulsory indoors when the ring of steel goes on 11th Nov.

Everyday an English doctor does an update Dr John Campbell and let me tell you he gives you a pretty good
presser not like some of our CHOs and premiers that got know idea what their talking about. Even the WHO and Fauci at times
don't know what their talking about. That's my rant for the week.

[blubak]

Well, she did say that Queensland hospitals were for Queenslanders, so I guess closing Sydney airport (and quarantine) to her constituents would be a reasonable extension of her own policy.
Havent heard her say that Qld tourism facilities are only for queenslanders but thats exactly what she is doing with her border closing politically motivated decisions.
Well done to the theme park operators who refused her entry last week,time it was more than all about her.
Lets see what she does when she wakes up & sees the amount of people in queensland who will not have a job to go back to in the tourism sector due to the people of other states voting with their feet & spending their tourism $ where its appreciated.

[Turnleft080]

Vic has just scored 5 ducks, going for a double hat trick tomorrow that WA bloke and the QLD matriarch must be getting worried.
What, open the border to the leper colony you must be joking?

On the contrary

The USA records 60,000 cases a day and all 50 state borders are open and the amount of
aircraft activity is frantic on Radar24 almost like a normal pre covid day.

[brokenagain]

NSW will open border with Victoria on November 23 (https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-border-restrictions-nsw-open-victoria-border-november-23-gladys-berejiklian/0c999116-498a-498e-995d-9a38b646236f)

To her credit, Hot Mess Gladys seems to be the Premier taking the most practical approach to border closures in this country. :D

[blubak]

NSW will open border with Victoria on November 23 (https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-border-restrictions-nsw-open-victoria-border-november-23-gladys-berejiklian/0c999116-498a-498e-995d-9a38b646236f)

To her credit, Hot Mess Gladys seems to be the Premier taking the most practical approach to border closures in this country. :D
Yes i think her decisions come from dealing with reality not fantasy unlike queen p to her north.
Maybe her decision to hook up with that guy wasnt the smartest but lots of us make wrong decisions in our personal life.
It reinforces that playing politics needs to be put aside as rebuilding the country with common sense decisions is what is needed.

[Ragnor]

She is the best premier in the country. Who cares what she did or who she did in her personal life nothing illegal.

NSW is doing the best in the world. Maybe QLD and WA could take some notes

[KRviator]

She is the best premier in the country. Who cares what she did or who she did in her personal life nothing illegal.I don't entirely buy her line "I didn't know or care about his finances" - especially when she's reported to have told him "I don't need to know about that". To me, it sounds like she knew, or suspected he was up to something dodgy and wanted plausible deniability.

That being said, ICAC hasn't found her to 1. Have actual knowledge about ol' mate's dodginess, 2. Participated in said dodginess or 3. Been dodgy herself. So I'm happy to give her the benefit of the doubt at this point, and roundly applaud her handling of the COVID issues. I do think they screwed the pooch with the Ruby Princess, but that may well have been the wakeup call they needed to get their shyte sorted and deliver the results they have from then on.

NSW has processed more international arrivals than anyone else, has had several minor outbreaks thus far, managed to keep their borders open to every state bar one and still managed to keep the states economy plugging away. That's worthy of a :ok: in anyone's book.

[dr dre]

The USA records 60,000 cases a day and all 50 state borders are open and the amount of
aircraft activity is frantic on Radar24 almost like a normal pre covid day.

ExpressJet Shuts Down, Idling 3,000 Airline Workers (https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2020/10/01/expressjet-shuts-down-idling-3000-airline-workers-while-35000-face-furloughs/?sh=2b929d044559)
American Airlines begins furloughs for 19,000 workers (https://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/aviation/american-airlines/article246157000.html)
Airlines Near 50,000 Job Cuts as American, United Feel Squeeze (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-30/airlines-near-50-000-job-cuts-as-american-united-feel-squeeze)
Miami Air ends operations after 29 years (https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/miami-air-end-operations-after-29-years/)

And that's only for now, more expected next year because the dysfunctional US government can't provide assistance for the airline industry.

Letting the virus rip through the nation doesn't mean boom times for airlines. It's the opposite.

In comparison:
China Southern Turns Third Quarter Profit Amid Rebounding Market (https://simpleflying.com/china-southern-profit-3q2020/)
How major South Korean airlines made profits during pandemic (https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2020/08/14/how-major-south-korean-airlines-made-profits-during-pandemic.html)
Air New Zealand will operate 90 per cent of its pre-COVID-19 domestic schedule (https://australianaviation.com.au/2020/09/air-new-zealand-returns-to-90-domestic-schedule/)

Nations that took strict initial measures and dealt with the pandemic seriously are doing better and rebounding. It's obvious which path Australia should follow.

[ebt]

ExpressJet Shuts Down, Idling 3,000 Airline Workers (https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2020/10/01/expressjet-shuts-down-idling-3000-airline-workers-while-35000-face-furloughs/?sh=2b929d044559)
American Airlines begins furloughs for 19,000 workers (https://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/aviation/american-airlines/article246157000.html)
Airlines Near 50,000 Job Cuts as American, United Feel Squeeze (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-30/airlines-near-50-000-job-cuts-as-american-united-feel-squeeze)
Miami Air ends operations after 29 years (https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/miami-air-end-operations-after-29-years/)

And that's only for now, more expected next year because the dysfunctional US government can't provide assistance for the airline industry.

Letting the virus rip through the nation doesn't mean boom times for airlines. It's the opposite.

In comparison:
China Southern Turns Third Quarter Profit Amid Rebounding Market (https://simpleflying.com/china-southern-profit-3q2020/)
How major South Korean airlines made profits during pandemic (https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2020/08/14/how-major-south-korean-airlines-made-profits-during-pandemic.html)
Air New Zealand will operate 90 per cent of its pre-COVID-19 domestic schedule (https://australianaviation.com.au/2020/09/air-new-zealand-returns-to-90-domestic-schedule/)

Nations that took strict initial measures and dealt with the pandemic seriously are doing better and rebounding. It's obvious which path Australia should follow.

While I don't disagree with your conclusion, you fail to pick up that the key factor in all of this is government support. The USA's CARES Act provided a level of support for airlines provided they didn't furlough. That expired in October and so now the cash tap has been turned off, you'll see the US carriers now really start to pull things back where they can, while also grabbing the opportunity to make some cash where there is opportunity to do so. By comparison, China is subsidising their carriers to the hilt, Air NZ has been drawing on a government loan, and Korea has also helped to provide assistance to some carriers.