All borders to reopen. [Archive] - Page 3

Ragnor

19th Jul 2020, 22:55

Just on the subject of the BLM protestors-where are they all now?
Oh thats right,they are trying to find another reason to protest about now,the BLM issue has gone away,not important any more.

No you’re wrong! They’re planning another BLM protest in Hyde park Sydney this weekend NSW Police currently trying to have it blocked in the Supreme Court as we speak, if it does go ahead the NSW Police commissioner said this morning he will instruct his officers to issue infringement for breached social distancing rules, if they issue 10000 fines then so be it.

These BLM protester are idiots they’re doing more harm than good for the cause they represent.

compressor stall

19th Jul 2020, 23:43

But IIRC the ban for the BLM protest was overturned in NSW courts - which is actually gives more validity to those wanting to protest.

Dan and his Vic colleagues said repeatedly "Don't Go etc", but stopped short of banning it, most likely due to legal advice that the ban would be overturned, emboldening the protesters' position.

On eyre

20th Jul 2020, 02:59

One can but hope these protests go ahead sans masks with a few superspreaders in attendance and let Darwin’s logic take effect.

JustinHeywood

20th Jul 2020, 03:21

...This [mask wearing] , of course, can lead to death.

Dr. Russell Blaylock, author of The Blaylock Wellness Report (https://w3.blaylockwellness.com/Health/BWR/Offers/BWR-Renewal/?oRef=mixi) newsletter, is a nationally recognized board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer.

So, I googled Dr Blaylock. The first hit is "pseudoscience peddler" - hardly a credible source since he's also an ant-vaxxer and subscribes, it seems, to most conspiracy theories.

Quoting people like him does not strengthen ANY argument, in fact it diminishes it. .

currawong

20th Jul 2020, 05:57

Yep, the other link rates a mention here -

Websites Publishing False Coronavirus Information:

https://www.newsguardtech.com/coronavirus-misinformation-tracking-center/

:rolleyes:

Buster Hyman

20th Jul 2020, 07:20

What would you like dan to do? There's no playbook for dealing with Pandemics,
...except for this one, originally written in 2014. https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/519F9392797E2DDCCA257D47001B9948/$File/w-AHMPPI-2019.PDF

...or this Victorian one from 2015. https://www2.health.vic.gov.au/emergencies/emergency-type/infectious-diseases/pandemic-influenza

You have to remember, there's thousands of Fat Cats in the VPS all dying to write a memo, or a Business Case, or a Business Continuity Plan, any one of which deals with a multitude of foreseeable disasters, including Pandemics. (Been there, seen that!)

wheels_down

21st Jul 2020, 06:22

QF group are very edgy to get going.

Today they announced the next phase of Melbourne expansion. The day after lockdown ends.

They also released the Queensland schedule the day after also.

All these people given false hope about travelling to QLD, will they be given refunds or credits when they are told they are not going. Perhaps this is some form of ploy to get people turning their savings into credits within the QF group?

Madness if they think she is opening the borders up the day after.

Xeptu

22nd Jul 2020, 23:20

Well what a difference a few days has made. We are losing the containment battle and we can blame that on the attitudes of the few that think this is a nothingness and determined to blatantly continue doing their own thing with reckless abandonment.
The chances of any return to some sort of normality in the next 6 months is lost. All eyes on Queensland and the ASX.

hoss58

23rd Jul 2020, 00:58

It may well end up that Melbourne goes down the herd immunity path just by circumstance the way covid is spreading.

Ragnor

23rd Jul 2020, 01:04

I think the herd immunity could be debunked, President of Brazil has tested positive for a second time to Covid-19.

Australopithecus

23rd Jul 2020, 01:15

There needs to be a mandatory custodial sentence for anyone shown to have been at large while knowingly infected. And it should be retroactive to include Shaggs Security too.

hoss58

23rd Jul 2020, 01:52

Totally agree. You only have to look at Sweden. Just noting that unless they can get it under control more people than not may get the virus even though herd immunity is not what they are trying to achieve.

novice110

23rd Jul 2020, 02:20

It will be a long time before 'more people than not' get this virus in Victoria !

Total cases under 7000 in a population of 6.3 million.

Other estimates from serology tests puts it at around 2% of the population currently. (Dr Chant NSW CHO comments)

Stickshift3000

23rd Jul 2020, 02:20

It may well end up that Melbourne goes down the herd immunity path just by circumstance the way covid is spreading.

There have been approximately 6000 cases in the Melbourne area (the majority of these have since recovered), for a population of approximately 5,000,000.

0.12% of the population has been confirmed to have had the virus.

Basically, stuff all of the Melbourne population has been infected. Herd immunity would not be achievable...

jrfsp

23rd Jul 2020, 02:22

Comes back to domestic travel is continuing to reduce / stricter borders rather than going the other way.
Cant see domestic travel until almost 2021 now

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE

23rd Jul 2020, 02:54

There have been approximately 6000 cases in the Melbourne area (the majority of these have since recovered), for a population of approximately 5,000,000.

0.12% of the population has been confirmed to have had the virus.

Basically, stuff all of the Melbourne population has been infected. Herd immunity would not be achievable...

plus the R number is 1

thisishardtochoose

23rd Jul 2020, 04:05

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-23/wa-coronavirus-hotel-quarantine-major-breaches-revealed-by-staff/12481774

Oh damn this will also be Dan Andrews fault :ugh::ugh::ugh:

DHC8 Driver

23rd Jul 2020, 04:09

Taiwan the most successful....no lockdown.....masks mandatory in public and on public transport
masks readily available....eg 711 stores and subsidised by government according to my mate there.
25 million people on an island half the size of Tasmania, 7 deaths and around 430 cases.

I’m in Taiwan and all you say is 100% true except about masks being compulsory. That has been relaxed recently - still required on public transport (MRT, buses, aircraft etc.). Some restaurants still taking temperature. But overall life is very normal here - there never has been a lockdown because the government secured the borders very early.

currawong

23rd Jul 2020, 09:35

Pity the military isn't involved with the quarantine system here.

NZ did, at least at management level, when others showed they were not up to the task.

The ones I see are doing a pretty fair job bolstering law enforcement.

They know how to guard stuff.

They are already paid for.

Cock ups are not tolerated.

Whats not to like?

Green.Dot

23rd Jul 2020, 09:49

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-23/wa-coronavirus-hotel-quarantine-major-breaches-revealed-by-staff/12481774

Oh damn this will also be Dan Andrews fault :ugh::ugh::ugh:

I say you nailed it mate.

If we have to blame one person, it is him indeed. He snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. And every Australian should be angry. Angry for the next decade even.

I hope his name lives on as the biggest cluster$&@# in the history of Australian Politics. That would make me happier.

morno

23rd Jul 2020, 10:06

I say you nailed it mate.

If we have to blame one person, it is him indeed. He snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. And every Australian should be angry. Angry for the next decade even.

I hope his name lives on as the biggest cluster$&@# in the history of Australian Politics. That would make me happier.

Is it? Or are you just looking for someone to blame, when really it’s the stupidity of the population that has caused this?

I don’t remember reading anything about Dan Andrews being out spreading it himself. :ugh:

Section28- BE

23rd Jul 2020, 10:12

Have a crack at this 'Pull-Threw'........

'9 News' link here: https://www.9news.com.au/national/queensland-doctor-fined-for-lying-on-border-declaration-after-returning-from-hotspot-qld-news/0a887dfd-261e-49ec-aa65-ac77062f38c9

'Your Life'- their hands...... anyhoo...????

rgds/& be Well
S28- BE

Green.Dot

23rd Jul 2020, 10:21

Is it? Or are you just looking for someone to blame, when really it’s the stupidity of the population that has caused this?

I don’t remember reading anything about Dan Andrews being out spreading it himself. :ugh:

No, I don’t think he was spreading it himself, but ignoring advice from people telling him the Hotel Quarantine was broken from the start and not taking action borders on criminal negligence. The Age link may not work behind a pay wall. Anyway, let’s hope the inquiry isn’t as corrupt as Dan- hiding behind his communist walls. If you still like him, great.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/leaked-emails-reveal-government-knew-of-problems-on-day-one-of-hotel-quarantine-20200713-p55bij.html

https://www.themandarin.com.au/136118-vic-public-servants-requested-police-support-for-hotel-quarantine-days-into-scheme-emails-show/

Bodie1

23rd Jul 2020, 11:00

Is it? Or are you just looking for someone to blame, when really it’s the stupidity of the population that has caused this?

I don’t remember reading anything about Dan Andrews being out spreading it himself. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies2/eusa_wall.gif

Open your eyes, the people are doing what they can get away with. You are not from Victoria, you don't know what's going on down there. A simple comparison between VIC and NSW hotel quarantine shows the shortfall of the VIC quarantine.

If it's not that clowns job to get it right, who's is it? You accept 100% responsibility for the safety of the people on board your aircraft, this clown has done nothing but deflect blame away from himself. He is the PIC of Victoria.

Green.Dot

23rd Jul 2020, 11:15

Thank you Bodie1. I’m glad someone else gets the concept of “the buck stops here”.

People in democratic societies always have and always will break rules or test boundaries. Unfortunately COVID has highlighted more than any other event the fragility of a democratic house of cards that is brought down by the one card that is “bent”. It was up to the Premier (PIC) of Victoria to chose the cards he stacked. Risk error management. There was no process ever applied.

jrfsp

23rd Jul 2020, 11:23

Realistically we also need to ask why the process was given to the state governments, border force is a federal agency.
If hotels are not up to the task, perhaps Christmas island, the workers camp outside Darwin (used for the Wuhan flights) and other such facilities need to be used instead

Bodie1

23rd Jul 2020, 11:38

Ladloy

23rd Jul 2020, 13:01

Green, I did the hotel iso in Sydney on my return from OS. The Army and the NSW Police nailed it. There was no way you were ducking out to 7/11 for a pack of ciggies! Around day 10 I would have given anything for a breath of fresh air, human nature to want to duck out. But it was NOT going to happen!

Andrews is a complete arseclown. He was warned over and over and over again. The rest of Australia is paying for his incompetence. One billion a week this is costing all of us.

Your career as a pilot is over if you ****** up to the magnitude that he has.
https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/sydney-woman-escapes-coronavirus-quarantine-attempts-to-board-flights/news-story/15071dc8852cfc6937144b70bdf69a2e
Yep no way you could escape those Sydney hotels. No way in the world, nope not possible.
Going to blame Gladys for this **** up?
https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/coronavirus-sydney-covid19-hotel-quarantine-standards-slammed-by-returnees-for-dirty-rooms-and-lax-ppe-approach/da1f0fb3-719a-47f9-b66e-da081be7682a
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/the-risk-remains-14-new-cases-of-coronavirus-in-nsw-20200705-p55954.html
"The NSWPF is aware of videos depicting inappropriate behaviour by a small number of private security guards previously contracted to a Sydney hotel for the ongoing mandatory quarantine operation."

Private security being used a **** load in Sydney too. I can also say that I know someone who is in the reserves who worked in the Sydney hotels for 6 weeks. He sent me numerous videos and photos of army personnel sleeping on the job.

Bodie1

23rd Jul 2020, 13:09

Wow man! One person, and she was caught, fined and returned to iso

I'm telling you what happened when I was in iso. I was there mate.

morno

23rd Jul 2020, 13:44

Open your eyes, the people are doing what they can get away with. You are not from Victoria, you don't know what's going on down there. A simple comparison between VIC and NSW hotel quarantine shows the shortfall of the VIC quarantine.

If it's not that clowns job to get it right, who's is it? You accept 100% responsibility for the safety of the people on board your aircraft, this clown has done nothing but deflect blame away from himself. He is the PIC of Victoria.

So when the aircraft is on fire and you’re a passenger down the back, you wait for Dan Andrews to come open the emergency exit for you do you? You don’t just take some responsibility for your own life and open it? Like you were shown? You know, a bit like how you were all f**king told to isolate after coming back from overseas, or after getting a Covid test :ugh::ugh:.

53% of you stupid barstards in Victoria thought it was a good idea to duck into Woolies for your weekly shop after being tested and feeling unwell!!! How stupid are you all? Do you really all need to be treated like kindergarteners and told when to wipe your asses? Or do you **** your pants and then blame it on the premier?

How about a bit of common sense and responsibility, that’d go a long way.

White Knight

23rd Jul 2020, 13:50

Or do you **** your pants

You don't want to do that after the run on bog-roll again!!!

Green.Dot

23rd Jul 2020, 21:05

You are still missing the point Morno. If it was your state the same thing would be happening. Don’t act all high and mighty that the people in “my state” would be following the rules and it wouldn’t be a problem. You are lucky your state Government handled the Hotel Quarantine better which didn’t lead to an INITIAL BREAKOUT. It’s beyond containment now, and ALL of AUSTRALIA gets to reap the health and economic woes.

Green.Dot

23rd Jul 2020, 21:42

Oh and Sydneysiders, get ready to call your local MP before it’s too late. BLM protesters in Sydney still think this is great timing to hold a protest on Tuesday.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have an issue with the cause, but the timing is just stupid and you would think they would have learnt from Melbourne’s pain. The people and the Government need to stop it before you guys are also locked up and wearing masks everywhere.

So morno, there you have it. It’s not just Victorians who are “stupid”.

Ladloy

23rd Jul 2020, 21:45

Oh and Sydneysiders, get ready to call your local MP before it’s too late. BLM protesters in Sydney still think this is great timing to hold a protest on Tuesday.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have an issue with the cause, but the timing is just stupid and you would think they would have learnt from Melbourne’s pain. The people and the Government need to stop it.

So morno, there you have it. It’s not just Victorians who are “stupid”.
NSW outbreak sitting at just under 20 a day. They'll be in the hundreds in weeks even without the BLM rally.

Xeptu

23rd Jul 2020, 23:23

Each state has their fair share of flouters, the only reason this hasn't happened in the lesser states is because the police were present and they just happened not to be infected, otherwise those states would have been no different. I'm devastated, I have loved ones in what will be on the front line in dedicated covid centres. The girls are not confident that ppe supply, usage and safety procedures will not be compromised. Should that happen, you idiots are on your own, goodluck.

Mach E Avelli

23rd Jul 2020, 23:55

I am not confident that Big Brother knows what it is doing. What science is behind allowing 150 people at a wedding or conference, while restricting it to 100 at a funeral? Yet allowing an unlimited number to attend a BLM protest. Derrr...
It smacks of bureaucrats rolling over to appease certain segments of our broken democracy. Making rules on the run and then breaking those same rules.
Rules should be consistent, clear and above all, enforceable. If it means using the military and breaking up protests when they pose a danger to society in general by deploying fire hoses and tear gas, so be it.

Green.Dot

24th Jul 2020, 00:24

Rules should be consistent, clear and above all, enforceable. If it means using the military and breaking up protests when they pose a danger to society in general by deploying fire hoses and tear gas, so be it.

100% agree, these are not normal times and therefor the law enforcement response should not have to be “normal”. Ask the front line health workers at risk everyday and I’m sure they would support extreme measures to get people to comply.

Xeptu

24th Jul 2020, 00:31

That's one of the first things I noticed after retirement. There appears to be an extraordinary amount of incompetence and dodginess happening, prior to that I thought it was just a workplace thing, I never did trust anyone with my life, even less so now.

Buster Hyman

24th Jul 2020, 00:34

Rules should be consistent, clear and above all, enforceable.
In Victoria, we fell down at your first point.
If it means using the military and breaking up protests when they pose a danger to society in general by deploying fire hoses and tear gas, so be it.
Agreed, but I'd draw the line at the unidentified Para Military that Trump is deploying in the States. (Not suggesting it'd happen here...I think...but that'd be my line in the sand)

-41

24th Jul 2020, 00:46

Buster Hyman

24th Jul 2020, 01:13

The lack clear identification on some has made this description as wide spread as it is. A patch with "Police" doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Same with fatigues, you see people wearing them everyday in Walmart.

I don't disagree with you, with regard to activists being involved, and I don't necessarily have issue with the protection of Federal assets as such, but in a rules based society, blurring the lines of authority can have unintended consequences.

Bodie1

24th Jul 2020, 01:30

So when the aircraft is on fire and you're a passenger down the back, you wait for Dan Andrews to come open the emergency exit for you do you?

No, no I wouldn't but I have no doubt a good proportion of the passengers wouldn't have a clue how to get that emergency exit open, and that's the ones who do listen to the cabin briefing.

Anyway your analogy is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. The structure of this outbreak will be well known soon enough. You won't have much choice but to accept the findings of the inquiry. To say that the population in Victoria is behaving significantly different to the way the rest of Australia would in a similar circumstance is a bit of a stretch. The very reason that Queensland has no covid is from the management of the processes in place. Is it not? As much as we (I) like to criticise the QLD government, they've done the job they were elected to do. Andrews hasn't, it's blatantly obvious to anyone who would like to objectively look at what has happened that his decision making created the mess that Victoria is in.

I have been lucky enough to have travelled between several states during this mess, done two iso's so far and hands down, Victoria is a joke and the laughing stock of the rest of Australia.

I was 'lucky' enough to get out of VIC prior to shutdown. I've been able to travel between states, SA & QLD, the security measures are well executed and provide little disruption, even travelling on a VIC drivers licence. Well done those states.

Green.Dot

24th Jul 2020, 01:35

53% of you stupid barstards in Victoria thought it was a good idea to duck into Woolies for your weekly shop after being tested and feeling unwell!!! How stupid are you all? Do you really all need to be treated like kindergarteners and told when to wipe your asses? Or do you **** your pants and then blame it on the premier?

How about a bit of common sense and responsibility, that’d go a long way.

Morno, you took Dan Andrews bait- hook, line and sinker. He wants you to blame the public to deflect the heat off him. Yes the public are also to blame, but Dan lit the bushfire. I just don’t understand why smart people like you won’t hold him accountable.

-41

24th Jul 2020, 01:42

Hi Buster Agreed, but where does one draw the line on identification, the officers are wearing unit badges and operate IAW ROE laid out by the feds.
Given the militants doxing history and current wishes to exterminate Law enforcement members and their family members it’s probably a wise choice. The officers has unit patches and their officer numbers displayed.

Some of the videos blown out proportion labelled as kidnapping in streets by unmarked agents are more likely to be informant or undercover operative extractions.
These are not peaceful protests, why do you need to “peacefully” protest at 3am with shields and pipe bombs. I believe the Australian public would not tolerate these sort of militant actions.

Peaceful protests

Badge clearly shows officers number, and unit border patrol. This a media beat up.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1025x1143/543e9d16_a03b_40e5_8156_80a4beb27a8f_12374a3486bd40ea99cc9f5 6e5eebff455e9fa98.jpeg

dr dre

24th Jul 2020, 01:45

Buster they are not para-military as you suggest. They are protecting federal buildings from the wilful destruction of highly organised anarchist and Marxist activists.
The teams are comprised of federal marshals, border protection, and other federal agencies.

“Organised Anarchists”? There’s a contradiction in terms.
“Border Protection”? Didn’t realise Oregon had international borders....

These actions will continue until Soros gets what he wants.

Ahhhh yes the truth is exposed. George Soros is behind it all. Even though his $8 billion dollar wealth puts him at a fairly low 162nd richest person in the world, a fraction of the wealth of other politically motivated billionaires like Sheldon Adelson, Rupert Murdoch or the Koch’s, Soros is actually the secret money behind all political influence and destabilisation in the world.

I bet right now he’s in secret ANTIFA meetings directing where the next round of chaos will emerge.....

-41

24th Jul 2020, 01:52

Thanks dr Dre, guess I’m due to be shipped off for Marxist re-education, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Green.Dot

24th Jul 2020, 01:53

I dare say class action from individuals (restaurant owners, shop owners etc) against the Victorian Government for their negligence won’t be far around the corner either...

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12488012

Buster Hyman

24th Jul 2020, 02:11

-41. I think we're on the same page but looking at it from different angles. A quick Google search brought up plenty of images of "security" with no identification but regardless of all that...it's just very sad to see the whole picture unfolding over there.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/980x551/who_are_you_unmarked_riot_police_patrolling_washington_dc_st reets_but_wont_identify_themselves_be38aa867a4302c800e5676c1 5dca510a823e034.png

Bodie1

24th Jul 2020, 02:18

dr dre

24th Jul 2020, 03:23

And of course you can't have an opinion without it being debunked by the intellectually superior amongst us.

Have all the opinions you want, if it's based on ridiculous "Soros controls the world" or "Corona is a hoax" conspiracy theories, don't cry when people call you out on it.

Ladloy

24th Jul 2020, 04:21

Have all the opinions you want, if it's based on ridiculous "Soros controls the world" or "Corona is a hoax" conspiracy theories, don't cry when people call you out on it.
The same people who advocate for freedom of speech but don't like the part where it doesn't imply freedom from criticism.

Eric Janson

24th Jul 2020, 05:17

Ahhhh yes the truth is exposed. George Soros is behind it all. Even though his $8 billion dollar wealth puts him at a fairly low 162nd richest person in the world, a fraction of the wealth of other politically motivated billionaires like Sheldon Adelson, Rupert Murdoch or the Koch’s, Soros is actually the secret money behind all political influence and destabilisation in the world.

I bet right now he’s in secret ANTIFA meetings directing where the next round of chaos will emerge.....

Perhaps you should do some research and find out where the money being raised by Black Lives Matter in the US is being funnelled.

You probably missed the interview (CNN?) where one of the founders of BLM described herself as a "trained Marxist"

In case you're wondering where all this ends - look up "Agenda 2030". This isn't a conspiracy theory - you'll find it published on the UN website.

currawong

24th Jul 2020, 05:52

Astounding how hard the ABC is working to quash any suggestion that there may have been transmission during recent protests.

10,000 people gather during a pandemic. On the balance of probability....

VIC can only trace about 20% of transmissions. Therefore impossible to rule out...

patty50

24th Jul 2020, 06:01

“Organised Anarchists”? There’s a contradiction in terms.
“Border Protection”? Didn’t realise Oregon had international borders....

George Soros is behind it all. Even though his $8 billion dollar wealth puts him at a fairly low 162nd richest person in the world, a fraction of the wealth of other politically motivated billionaires like Sheldon Adelson, Rupert Murdoch or the Koch’s, Soros is actually the secret money behind all political influence and destabilisation in the

What a train wreck of a post...

Anarchism is an ideology of wanting government abolished. Individuals starting organisations to that end are organised anarchists.

CBP can probably go wherever they want. Unless you also think the US Army should not have worked to desegregate schools because there was no war?

Soros has shuffled over $32bn through his foundation. $40bn+ gets you up to the big leagues and leapfrogs those you mentioned. As a 90 year old he’s probably not worried about running out of money.

The “Koch’s” are one after half of that evil duo died last year. Your nefarious billionaire knowledge is lacking.

The Soros foundation worked to install many extreme left prosecutors in the US who have declined to charge any rioters while charging cops who were witness to a drug overdose with murder. That isn’t really a conspiracy theory it’s very well publicised.

https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-prosecutor-campaign-20180523-story.html

brokenagain

24th Jul 2020, 06:31

You probably missed the interview (CNN?) where one of the founders of BLM described herself as a "trained Marxist"

And if the founders came straight out and said they want to push socialism and Marxism as a political idealogy in America they’d rightly be laughed at and left at the fringes of loony left political power. But by attaching themselves to a legitimate social justice issue, they can push their agenda under the guise of racial injustice, thereby giving their extreme political agenda legitimacy.

Bodie1

24th Jul 2020, 06:40

Have all the opinions you want, if it's based on ridiculous "Soros controls the world" or "Corona is a hoax" conspiracy theories, don't cry when people call you out on it.

Ahhh, right, so I've now said or implied that the rona is a hoax? That's all you've got? The proof on Soros is out there.

dr dre

24th Jul 2020, 06:52

What a train wreck of a post...
]Anarchism is an ideology of wanting government abolished. Individuals starting organisations to that end are organised anarchists.

I'm talking about the unfounded fear of the "dreaded Antifa". They are tiny, have no influence, no money, no real structure but are talked about by some as if they are on the verge of a revolutionary takeover of society. I'd doubt they number more than a few dozen in each Australian city.

CBP can probably go wherever they want.
Outside of their stated jurisdiction? Looks like their little mass public arrest plan failed anyway, I don't think the populace liked what they did..... (https://www.sbs.com.au/news/officers-from-three-paramilitary-style-units-sent-to-portland-to-join-crackdown-on-protests)....

Soros has shuffled over $32bn through his foundation.

Some of which has gone to BLM (https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-false-george-soros-claims/fact-checkfalseclaims-about-george-soros-idUSKBN23P2XJ), which is fine btw. None to Antifa, and Soros has no control over either of them, so how is he controlling the "chaos" on the streets again? Those scenes from the SBS report from Portland looked well supported and peaceful to me.

The “Koch’s” are one after half of that evil duo died last year. Your nefarious billionaire knowledge is lacking.
If you had a bit more knowledge yourself you'd realise that the other half of the Koch brothers is still alive, and since his brother's death has lobbied to remove healthcare and food assistance from poor people (https://truthout.org/articles/charles-koch-is-funding-a-campaign-to-kill-food-stamps-and-medicaid/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) and lobbied to kill environmental and clean energy legislation. (https://www.prwatch.org/news/2020/01/13530/koch-spends-more-2019-stop-action-climate) Charles Koch is worth about 6x as much as Soros btw.

The Soros foundation worked to install many extreme left prosecutors in the US who have declined to charge any rioters while charging cops who were witness to a drug overdose with murder. That isn’t really a conspiracy theory it’s very well publicised.

Errrr no. Rioters have been charged, even in "liberal" cities like Chicago (https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-news-riots-protests-looting/6228227/). The "extreme left prosecutors" are looking to decrease incarceration, stop police misconduct and stop imprisonment of people without charge (https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-prosecutor-campaign-20180523-story.html). No sign of an anarcho-communist takeover there. What cops got charged?

Why are we discussing this again in a forum about Australian Aviation on a thread about pandemic control measures?
I guess when people get frustrated conspiracy theorists get busy. I'm waiting for the next round of anti-vaxxer, anti-mask or "it's all a hoax" posts.

dr dre

24th Jul 2020, 06:56

That's all you've got? The proof on Soros is out there.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x1000/farp_small_wall_texture_product_750x1000_u3_057d6c5324c7b155 c05718d12376fb34ff61753c.jpg

Xeptu

24th Jul 2020, 10:01

Well there ya go, four months preparing to protect our aged and vulnerable and they're the very first to go down. I think the girls just might be right.

currawong

24th Jul 2020, 10:46

Buckle up.

https://www.vox.com/2020/7/12/21321653/getting-covid-19-twice-reinfection-antibody-herd-immunity

LapSap

24th Jul 2020, 11:41

dr dre

24th Jul 2020, 13:24

I may have missed any earlier reference but any thoughts on what they should do with this arrogant POS?

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/melbourne-woman-who-appeared-to-flout-lockdown-rules-in-viral-video-responds-to-critics-c-1190407.amp

Shes an anti-science, Qanon supporting, religious fundamentalist calling other people sheeple. One of those types who will argue with cops all day how wearing a mask or quarantine measures violate their “rights endowed by their creator” so the cops end up losing patience and letting them go. With morons like this in the country we’ll never overcome this pandemic.

Here’s another of the “Conscious Truth Network” (https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/the-bodybuilder-conspiracy-theorist-behind-a-group-pushing-covid19-checkpoint-breaches/news-story/b72355e0b73ed6d176eb92be203fe0c4), other conspiracies they indulge in include moon landing skepticism, 5G truthing and anti-Vaxxerism.

And this kids is what you get if you spend all your spare time getting brainwashed with zany conspiracy theories.....

Bodie1

24th Jul 2020, 13:43

And you're a pseudo intellectual dick head dre ;)

Bodie1

24th Jul 2020, 13:56

Sayonara **** heads!

Turnleft080

24th Jul 2020, 14:14

Why are we discussing this again in a forum about Australian Aviation on a thread about pandemic control measures?
I guess when people get frustrated conspiracy theorists get busy. I'm waiting for the next round of anti-vaxxer, anti-mask or "it's all a hoax" posts.

It's a thread trying to open up the aviation borders.
Man invents sugar, man refines sugar, man eats sugar, man gets obese from sugar, man gets diabetes from sugar and you want a drug to fix his problem.
If we ate properly you wouldn't need a vax in the first place. But since we eat junk, we invent disease and we need science to fix that.
Us homo sapiens are the sickest living species in the universe. Here we are in 2020. You go to the doc, he asses you in 10min, take 2 a day, you'll be right.
Fauci and Sutton are doctors. All you get is social distance and mask up. Have they ever mentioned how to improve your immune system in the last 5 months. Well have they.
The WHO and CDC said masks are useless a few months ago, then suddenly overnight they changed their tune. See how F@#$ the system is.
Can you see now that we are an experiment, we are lab rats. Probably not.

currawong

24th Jul 2020, 22:19

Mach E Avelli

24th Jul 2020, 22:30

Green.Dot

24th Jul 2020, 22:47

Good thread drift Turnleft080! It backs up your first statement well! 🤣

Turnleft080

25th Jul 2020, 00:54

Yes, it's an aviation thread about borders. So what is the relevance of your dietary diatribes? Eating all the garlic in the world won't open the borders. Perhaps we should exclude fat people from flying because clearly they eat too much sugar?

Mach - In order to keep flying I have seen a number of pilots been advised my their DAMEs to slim down,
( bring Blood pressure/cholesterol down, which are conditional stress responses not diseases and that stressor is sugar) and they have done that, even some going cold turkey.
I regards to your other sentence, if we ate all the garlic/onion/ginger in the world, and C, and D at least your in a a better fighting chance of recovering quicker, hence borders opening quicker,
hence us hitting TOGA more quicker, than our keyboards.

Stickshift3000

25th Jul 2020, 01:22

I guess when people get frustrated conspiracy theorists get busy. I'm waiting for the next round of anti-vaxxer, anti-mask or "it's all a hoax" posts.

I bet those anti-vaxxers will be first in line when a COVID vaccine emerges... :rolleyes:

SOPS

25th Jul 2020, 06:21

In his daily press conference yesterday, the WA Premier said that WA borders could remain shut until the end of the year. He also ( quite seriously) stated that he could easily see no international travel allowed for the next 2 years.

jrfsp

25th Jul 2020, 06:58

Ladloy

25th Jul 2020, 07:14

The WHO and CDC said masks are useless a few months ago, then suddenly overnight they changed their tune. See how F@#$ the system is.
New research = new evidence = new procedures

Ragnor

25th Jul 2020, 07:18

All these premiers want to close off to each other, this just highlights that Australia has to many states and territories way to many layers of government and red tape. Elimination was never the objective. WA should be open to everyone except VIC and maybe NSW. QLD are handling it fine with NSW people crossing over as frustrating as that premier is with her pigeon chest strutting around and making it political with NSW with moving the border south

Boe787

25th Jul 2020, 08:01

As mentioned previously, one could argue that
the evidence that masks were effective has been around for some time, if any of our Politicians or bureaucrats looked at Taiwan.
Taiwan make their own, so perhaps we couldn’t go down that path till now, because we did not have enough to go round.

neville_nobody

25th Jul 2020, 08:15

New research = new evidence = new procedures

But nothing changed? The masks are the same and you are still exhaling moisture.

Ladloy

25th Jul 2020, 09:17

But nothing changed? The masks are the same and you are still exhaling moisture.
Australia's reason for not going 100% masks straight away was that there was little to no community spread and it would be a waste to use already low stocks of masks. My medical friends wrre very worried by low stocks on masks and faceshields early into this pandemic.

WHO initially had data to say that social distancing and good hygiene was enough to curb the spread but because this is a new type of coronavirus the data was limited on how it spread through droplets. We're now at a point where we're putting all the pieces together and we can learn from all the different approaches taken by different countries. A uncovered sneeze can carry coronavirus up to 8 metres. Two people wearing masks can stop a sneeze from spreading by a considerable margin.

The federal government started so strong in March by following the guidelines of experts but they've been idling for a while now.

Xeptu

25th Jul 2020, 10:02

What Ladloy said. I'm not sure they used the term useless, what they meant is they won't protect you from becoming infected and they still won't. In fact if not used correctly may increase the risk of contracting the virus. What they will do though is if you have the virus will reduced the transmission range in the event of a cough and that's whats is considered an advantage.

De_flieger

25th Jul 2020, 11:00

I bet those anti-vaxxers will be first in line when a COVID vaccine emerges... :rolleyes:
I bet a lot of them won't...I reckon that if an effective vaccine is developed, the 85 or 95 percent of the population who can get it, mostly will. If that vaccine then stops community transmission the other 1 or 2 percent who are militant anti-vaxxers will loudly proclaim that - despite it being brought about by the very vaccines they are opposing - because community transmission has stopped or the disease is no longer widespread, it proves that the vaccines weren't needed or the disease isn't serious. They'll claim that the lack of widespread disease as a result of the vaccines, shows that the vaccines are unnecessary.

Logic isn't their strong point, just look at Pete Evans, simultaneously claiming that coronavirus is a hoax, and somehow involving Bill Gates and being made to look far worse than it is by the media for some reason, and also selling $15,000 lamps to "protect" against it.

neville_nobody

25th Jul 2020, 11:54

Australia's reason for not going 100% masks straight away was that there was little to no community spread and it would be a waste to use already low stocks of masks. My medical friends wrre very worried by low stocks on masks and faceshields early into this pandemic.

WHO initially had data to say that social distancing and good hygiene was enough to curb the spread but because this is a new type of coronavirus the data was limited on how it spread through droplets. We're now at a point where we're putting all the pieces together and we can learn from all the different approaches taken by different countries. A uncovered sneeze can carry coronavirus up to 8 metres. Two people wearing masks can stop a sneeze from spreading by a considerable margin.

The advice initially was that if you had corona virus that wearing a mask would prevent you breathing and coughing on people. However if you were negative the masks were pointless as they acted as a way of transmitting because as you exhaled the mask became moist and enabling the virus to attach to the mask. Hence the advice to not wear them unless you were positive.

glekichi

25th Jul 2020, 17:02

The point being generally no-one knows if they're positive or not.
The initial "masks don't help" was about protection from getting the virus. Still correct.
Except, the reason masks are useful is stopping the unknowingly infected from spreading it.
Those who have tested positive aren't in the community.
If everyone assumes they might have the virus and acts accordingly you can have a functional society without lockdown.
In fact with that attitude shift alone the resultant infection and death rates are less than Influenza which has vaccines AND appropriate treatments.

JustinHeywood

26th Jul 2020, 07:44

Sayonara **** heads!

I for one am pleased to see that people hawking COVID conspiracy theories couldn’t get much traction here.

We can all laugh at the Flat-Earthers and their YouTube ‘research’ but in this case the community needs to be generally on the same page.

morno

26th Jul 2020, 10:03

What’s really uncanny or just a coincidence is that Melbourne has had (and continues to have) the largest amount of international arrivals from China and the Middle East and so on, followed by Sydney. So it doesn’t surprise one that the rates of infection are what they are and the situation completely out of control.
You only have to sit and watch the amount of international passengers arriving into Australia to realise that we are never going to resolve the issue whilst this continues.
Just go and sit at the airport and watch the numbers arrive.

Unfortunately all at the expense of the Australian economy and airline industry which soon will be decimated beyond repair.

Maybe the root cause should be addressed. Stop all international arrivals full stop until this situation improves.

Just to put it out there ! Are the hotels rooms where people are allegedly isolated at being properly sanitized disinfected etc. I bet NOT........

I’m pretty sure mate, that they have stopped all international arrivals into Melbourne. The rest of the states, it’s not proving to be such a big issue. There are still reasons for some people to be carrying out essential overseas travel.

Xeptu

26th Jul 2020, 12:45

To gigi foster (economist) and her like minded supporters. You should know our loved ones on the front line and their colleagues have made their decision. We have no intention of risking our lives and adding to the existing 330 of our infected colleagues. Should PPE, supply, process and procedures be compromised in our covid clinics, it's our intention to walk away no questions asked and no answers offered. We apologise to those who are affected who are not supporters, but we have no choice, we cannot get our heads around the ones who think our defensive measures don't apply to them and put themselves and others in harms way. We are not willing to give our lives for nothing.

currawong

26th Jul 2020, 13:15

What’s really uncanny or just a coincidence is that Melbourne has had (and continues to have) the largest amount of international arrivals from China and the Middle East and so on, followed by Sydney. So it doesn’t surprise one that the rates of infection are what they are and the situation completely out of control.
You only have to sit and watch the amount of international passengers arriving into Australia to realise that we are never going to resolve the issue whilst this continues.
Just go and sit at the airport and watch the numbers arrive.

Unfortunately all at the expense of the Australian economy and airline industry which soon will be decimated beyond repair.

Maybe the root cause should be addressed. Stop all international arrivals full stop until this situation improves.

Just to put it out there ! Are the hotels rooms where people are allegedly isolated at being properly sanitized disinfected etc. I bet NOT........

Since July 1, updated on July 23 -

"Currently, there is a diversion on all international arrivals into Melbourne Airport. Any international flights that were scheduled to land in Victoria will be diverted to other Australian cities."

https://www.melbourneairport.com.au/Passengers/Passenger-information/COVID-19

Melbourne does not need to import, it has plenty of its own...

WhisprSYD

26th Jul 2020, 21:55

Since July 1, updated on July 23 -

"Currently, there is a diversion on all international arrivals into Melbourne Airport. Any international flights that were scheduled to land in Victoria will be diverted to other Australian cities."

https://www.melbourneairport.com.au/Passengers/Passenger-information/COVID-19

Melbourne does not need to import, it has plenty of its own...

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/554x554/43975278_47a6_4a08_8d84_602f282cc33d_324360a4dc90f9c8e627fef 9788142ae087ba73a.png
And this was as of late June before Victoria stopped accepting international arrivals, with the huge majority coming from China and the ME.

Green.Dot

26th Jul 2020, 22:09

To all the Victorians (and Australians) who’s financial and emotional well-being is being effected by the second wave In Victoria....

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6175196899001

Ladloy

26th Jul 2020, 23:01

To all the Victorians (and Australians) who’s financial and emotional well-being is being effected by the second wave In Victoria....

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6175196899001
From the same news outlet that was crying for open borders and no lockdown the first time round. They're a fear mongering, corrupt and bias bunch that don't deserve any attention.

JustinHeywood

27th Jul 2020, 03:03

From the same news outlet that was crying for open borders and no lockdown the first time round. They're a fear mongering, corrupt and bias bunch that don't deserve any attention.

Yes much safer to just take the ABC feed, where apparently lockdowns are all good, except if attending ideologically-approved BLM rallies, where people are apparently protected by an aura of self-righteousness. 😐

Rabbitwear

27th Jul 2020, 03:21

The international arrivals are plenty .
saw 2 Chinese carriers in Melbourne the other day , 3 EK 777s , SQ Cx and a Qatar freighter.
In SYD , 4 Ek 777s all passenger , SQ , CX , 3 Chinese Aircraft, more than 10 wide bodies in each port in the short time I was there to see it .

thisishardtochoose

27th Jul 2020, 03:26

The international arrivals are plenty .
saw 2 Chinese carriers in Melbourne the other day , 3 EK 777s , SQ Cx and a Qatar freighter.

Melbourne is only accepting cargo only flights at this stage, but they are able to carry any passengers outbound; there's no restrictions with that.

White Knight

27th Jul 2020, 18:21

And this was as of late June before Victoria stopped accepting international arrivals, with the huge majority coming from China and the ME.

Only bringing in Australian citizens and permanent residents! Maybe you should be looking at who your government is dishing out passports and long term visas to? The irony though is generally lost on the lefties:ugh:

jrfsp

28th Jul 2020, 05:07

Premier of WA doubling down on his all or nothing border approach - unlike other states opening selectively. Unless the border arrangements are reciprocal, they are basically useless anyway.

Dont expect the trans-con routes to resume before the end of the year

Turnleft080

28th Jul 2020, 05:39

compressor stall

28th Jul 2020, 06:06

It's not a competition.

morno

28th Jul 2020, 07:05

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/offsiders/series/0/video/RS1908V026S00

This pandemic has now caused another pandemic which is now out of control.
It's a subject no one wants to touch. Suicide.
Andrews and Sutton just come to the microphone on the hour 11am and deliver out covid numbers only.
Last year pre-covid 726 suicides alone in Victoria.
The reason why I have linked the offsiders at time 17:20 the coroner of Victoria John Cain said,
correct me if I'm wrong, "400 since July 20". You have got to be kidding me.
If this is case then what's worse?
If we are all wearing masks then their is no reason why borders should be closed? Virus spread is very minimal.
All borders and business must open now. Now means now.
I have heard rumours that they should be closed till Christmas. That would be unrecoverable damage.
Very sorry if this is a touching subject. Reluctant even posting it. However it needs to be addressed and fixed asap.

I understand that it’s a tragic thing, suicide, but I see another way of looking at it. They choose to end their life, but I’m not choosing to end mine if someone gives me Covid and I die.

Stickshift3000

28th Jul 2020, 08:10

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/offsiders/series/0/video/RS1908V026S00

This pandemic has now caused another pandemic which is now out of control.
It's a subject no one wants to touch. Suicide.
Andrews and Sutton just come to the microphone on the hour 11am and deliver out covid numbers only.
Last year pre-covid 726 suicides alone in Victoria.
The reason why I have linked the offsiders at time 17:20 the coroner of Victoria John Cain said,
correct me if I'm wrong, "400 since July 20". You have got to be kidding me.
If this is case then what's worse?
If we are all wearing masks then their is no reason why borders should be closed? Virus spread is very minimal.
All borders and business must open now. Now means now.

Without downplaying such a serious subject, in the link John Cain stated that there were 400 suicides in Vic as at July 20th for this year. That's about on par (pro rata) with the stats for the previous year (726), but I have no doubts the rate will increase as more find themselves in financial stress and other factors. It's certainly a serious issue associated with the lockdown restrictions, alongside the potential increases in alcoholism, substance abuse and domestic violence.

However, there is no rational, single solution. It's balancing act, and I reckon Australia is doing pretty well. Room for improvement? Sure, but certainly not the wooden spoon amongst the globe.

patty50

28th Jul 2020, 09:54

They choose to end their life, but I’m not choosing to end mine if someone gives me Covid and I die.

What a despicable thing to say.

Feeling like you have no option but to kill yourself is not a choice.

Given the comorbidities of covid maybe dying of covid is a choice. You should’ve taken your vitamin D.

vne165

28th Jul 2020, 10:52

TL8, Thanks for posting that.
It is a shocking stat that needs to see the cold light of day.

I have always harboured the view that the hushed, covered up reporting of suicides is as much about an administrations embarrassment (as is anyone would choose such an option whilst Comrade Dan was in charge), as it is about copy-cat issues. There will always be a cohort that cannot cope, that is the nature of things. But as SS3K said above, it's going to be a terrible year before it gets better.

I also agree that everyone is doing the best they can, pretty much.

Australopithecus

28th Jul 2020, 17:10

What a despicable thing to say.

Feeling like you have no option but to kill yourself is not a choice.

Given the comorbidities of covid maybe dying of covid is a choice. You should’ve taken your vitamin D.

He is saying that if TurnLeft080’s advice is followed a person subsequently fatally infected will have been murdered. And I agree. Anyone advocating such idiocy should have the decency to become infected first if only to lend some anecdotal weight to their stance.

Xeptu

28th Jul 2020, 22:00

Whilst mental health and suicide is a growing issue, most are related to ptsd, drugs and alcohol, being the underlying issues. Whilst covid may play a role in that, no-one goes from life is wonderful to suicide in 3 months. Covid then cannot possibly be the root cause. The only way forward for the time being is to eradicate the virus, that is the decision of the public at large.
Lets get it done. There will be no opening of borders while the virus is in the community.

compressor stall

28th Jul 2020, 22:12

Turnleft080

At risk of feeding the troll, listen to the interview and stop being deceitful and selective.

He clearly says, "as at July 20" some 400 people have suicided. (NOT 400 since July 20). 400 for the first ca. 200 days of the year is 2 per day. 2 a day too many, yes, no-one is arguing with that. And the coroner also states why the suicide figures are not publicised - with good reason.

Remind us what the COVID-19 death rate is - per day - with only about 3-500 daily cases? Even my primary school kids could extrapolate that out if you can't.

Framing your "argument" with emotional heartstrings of "sorry" and "touching" to leverage off the tragedy of suicide to advance another cause is despicable.

Ex FSO GRIFFO

29th Jul 2020, 01:15

Wed 29th., Just announced on Radio 2GB (SY) The QLD Premier has just banned ALL entries into QLD from 'Greater Sydney'.....which encompasses some 44 Local Councils in and around the SY area.....including the SY CBD.......

WEF 0100 Saturday Morning, 1st Aug.

This announcement coincides with the claim that QLD Police are investigation 2 women who allegedly flew on 2 Virgin Flights, ML to SY, then a separate flight SY to BN, and claimed to have travelled only from SY on 'Travel Declaration' on arrival at BN.....and have since tested 'Positive'
Police are investigating - and both women are said to be in hospital in BN.....

What can one say..???

airdualbleedfault

29th Jul 2020, 01:38

Ragnor

29th Jul 2020, 01:55

Well there goes any come back to aviation in 2020, QLD premier closes border 12:01 Saturday morning because two people traveled from Victoria with covid.

Angle of Attack

29th Jul 2020, 02:21

Ragnor

29th Jul 2020, 02:41

So why close to Sydney tho, these people miss lead the authorities and were in Victoria!

Ex FSO GRIFFO

29th Jul 2020, 02:55

Maybe, just maybe, its because these two were 'caught'.

How many others might there be...and....even then, how many would have given a 'false' address to gain entry......??

Who knows.....???

normanton

29th Jul 2020, 02:55

Not only that, these two teenagers were out and about in the SE Qld community for 8 days, most of that time infectious allegedly, Multiple Shopping Centres, Pubs, Restaurants, Churches were visited, sounds like a complete Cluster about to occur.
Well it sounds promising that the QLD government is saying it's now a criminal matter. Send them to jail for 10 years.
So why close to Sydney tho, these people miss lead the authorities and were in Victoria!
Because they traveled to QLD from NSW.

BNEA320

29th Jul 2020, 02:59

Well it sounds promising that the QLD government is saying it's now a criminal matter. Send them to jail for 10 years.

Because they traveled to QLD from NSW.
has anyone anywhere in Australia actually paid corona fines ? Even if it did go to court, most would just plead no money.

Section28- BE

29th Jul 2020, 03:11

ABC article on today's developments: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-29/coronavirus-queensland-parkland-christian-college-woman-positive/12499794

Extract:

Ms Palaszczuk said 31 new local government areas in Sydney were now official hotspots (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-23/coronavirus-queensland-border-restrictions-nsw-outbreak-hotspots/12481118) for the purposes of entering Queensland and the measures would come into effect from 1:00am Saturday.

VA: MLB-SYD-BNE on 21 July.

Extract:"They both travelled together recently including to Brisbane from Melbourne on the 21 of July via Sydney."

Mr Miles said Queensland Health was now identifying close contacts from the Logan and Springfield Lakes regions and the flights the women travelled on, VA863 and VA977.
rgds
S28- BE

Ragnor

29th Jul 2020, 03:41

Still does not make sense to close off to Sydney!

compressor stall

29th Jul 2020, 04:23

Are the government health directions to isolate punishable by jail time?

That would be more of a deterrent than $1000 fine - Say 3 months jail for breaching self isolation requirements.

Stickshift3000

29th Jul 2020, 04:42

Are the government health directions to isolate punishable by jail time?

Failure to comply with any VIC direction is punishable with fines only: potentially 120 penalty units for an individual; 600 for body corporate.

Stickshift3000

29th Jul 2020, 04:56

Not only that, these two teenagers were out and about in the SE Qld community for 8 days, most of that time infectious allegedly, Multiple Shopping Centres, Pubs, Restaurants, Churches were visited, sounds like a complete Cluster about to occur.

These two idiots were only caught because they're now in hospital... they will hardly be the only two people that managed to get around the border restrictions.

I wonder how many others there have got through?

compressor stall

29th Jul 2020, 06:00

Failure to comply with any VIC direction is punishable with fines only: potentially 120 penalty units for an individual; 600 for body corporate.
What a shame.

Xeptu

29th Jul 2020, 06:04

Yeah that's for Victorians in VIC though, in the other states we feed them to the wildlife. :)

Turnleft080

29th Jul 2020, 07:30

Posted by normanton
Well it sounds promising that the QLD government is saying it's now a criminal matter. Send them to jail for 10 years.

In the good old days, in the 60s, hangman Henry Bolty would of done just that. In the 40s, they would of been sent to the post Nuremburg trial style.
In the 1700s in the Napoleon reign, just like witches fate, the spectacular angled slanting blade would be released on descent in the middle of Place De La Concorde and wind the clock
down to the 1400s the English Clergy would of burnt these two Vics either side of Joan of Arc. While I'm at it, lets take one more leap to the Roman Empire,
a crucifixion, we can't do that (that's a blokes only club) a stoning, maybe, though Nero was always on the lookout for pet food for his lions.

currawong

29th Jul 2020, 09:26

https://youtu.be/QnSDDXtd5qI

blubak

29th Jul 2020, 21:54

Well there goes any come back to aviation in 2020, QLD premier closes border 12:01 Saturday morning because two people traveled from Victoria with covid.
Hope the Qld borders remain closed forever,the state is on the verge of bankruptcy.
She can find money outside of australia to support her almost non existent economy,she has & always will use this for political points scoring & nothing else.
Never hear her mention how many tests they do daily,like Trump says,'if we dont test,the numbers will come down'.

Angle of Attack

29th Jul 2020, 22:16

I suspect Greater Sydney was labelled a hotspot to basically make it impossible to get in To QLD by air deceitfully, closes the loophole this couple used. Basically now if you fly out of MEL via anywhere into QLD you will get caught up in mandatory Quarantine. Only loophole is driving I guess, but you have to be really determined to drive BNE to MEL and back for a week or so down there, while I don’t really agree with the total ban it’s a sledgehammer approach because of the idiots like these. 🤬

Ragnor

30th Jul 2020, 02:24

what about the mining industry, that will keep QLD going. They don't need the rest of us.

SuzieWong

30th Jul 2020, 03:02

Hope the Qld borders remain closed forever,the state is on the verge of bankruptcy.
She can find money outside of australia to support her almost non existent economy,she has & always will use this for political points scoring & nothing else.
Never hear her mention how many tests they do daily,like Trump says,'if we dont test,the numbers will come down'.

We're doing fine up here thank you. You worry about your sh1thole down there.

"Only loophole is driving I guess, but you have to be really determined to drive BNE to MEL and back for a week or so down there".
Perhaps they should have taken your advice AoA - could have fitted a lot more of their alleged BV "shopping trip" in the boot.
Taking a look at some of their FB friends, I reckon they ought to be doing a bit of ISIS tracing too.....

jrfsp

30th Jul 2020, 03:10

If CV-19 spreads everywhere then there will be no economy and the whole country will be back in lockdown.

What we have seen is that eradication is the only way to fully open the economy. Suppression does not work in the long term, 1 case will always become 2, becomes 4 etc...

NZ domestic demand is back up to 70% of pre covid, whats Australia ? 5 - 10%? Less?

Green.Dot

30th Jul 2020, 03:53

What we have seen is that eradication is the only way to fully open the economy. Suppression does not work in the long term, 1 case will always become 2, becomes 4 etc...

Agree eradication would be ideal. But the morons of society haven’t changed their behaviour to facilitate this, and they never well. The ship of eradication has sailed (at least in Vic). So short of getting a chainsaw and cutting Victoria out of Australia I have no idea what the answer is and neither do the leaders.

currawong

30th Jul 2020, 04:25

Prevention would have been better.

Vietnam managed it.

Well, until someone made a more determined effort to share it with them.

bringbackthe80s

30th Jul 2020, 04:38

Agree eradication would be ideal. But the morons of society haven’t changed their behaviour to facilitate this, and they never well. The ship of eradication has sailed (at least in Vic). So short of getting a chainsaw and cutting Victoria out of Australia I have no idea what the answer is and neither do the leaders.

these comments are unbelievable. Oh my, this thing will last a long time

Check_Thrust

30th Jul 2020, 04:58

Never hear her mention how many tests they do daily,like Trump says,'if we dont test,the numbers will come down'.
Not a fan of her however regardless of whether or not she mentions how many tests are done daily it isn't a state secret. If you are really interested/concerned you can find details of the number of tests completed on the QLD COVID-19 website (https://www.qld.gov.au/health/conditions/health-alerts/coronavirus-covid-19/current-status/statistics#testbyhhs).

Also the Australian government health website (https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers#tests-conducted-and-results) publishes figures for the total number of tests per state.

Come in spinner

30th Jul 2020, 05:24

Blubak
I agree without NSW and Vic and tourism QLD is screwed.
wait till they ask for taxpayers money from the commonwealth, Vic and NSW is the powerhouse of the Australian economy.

Ragnor
Qld mining will keep the economy going in Qld, so funny

Come in spinner

30th Jul 2020, 05:31

Vic is testing over 17000 per 100000 Qld 8000 as of 13th July

jrfsp

30th Jul 2020, 05:34

With Covid tourism is screwed - its a no brainer.

601

30th Jul 2020, 06:02

NZ domestic demand is back up to 70% of pre covid, whats Australia ? 5 - 10%? Less?
NZ is a lot smaller and the Govt there had the luxury of not having to deal with 6 States and one Territory who actually control what goes on within their borders and are extremely protective of outside interference.

A lot of Australians do not realise, or refuse to believe, that the PM has very little or no control on what occurs within a State or Territory, especially where health is concerned.

The reason for greater Sydney being declaring a hot spot.
“There has been more outbreaks in other parts of Greater Sydney and that will now become another declared hot spot … effective from 1am Saturday morning and we have done that so we can give notice to Queenslanders,” Ms Palaszczuk said today.

Commissioner Carroll alleged Ms M and Ms L were "well involved" in the Melbourne party and received infringement notices while in Victoria.
She also alleged the girls spent "an awful amount of time planning how they were going to deceive and be deceitful".
Chief Health Officer Jeannette Young said one of the teens was not cooperating with authorities in providing her whereabouts while infectious.
"I am very about the second individual who has not been cooperative and has not shared with us where she has been," Dr Jeannette Young said.
"So we have not been able to contact those venues and we will continue to work with that individual and hopefully get information."
Commissioner Carroll said she was "bitterly disappointed" at their alleged actions.
Ms M and Ms L have been issued with $4000 fines and would front court, she said.
Queensland health authorities alleged the two 19-year-olds visited shops, restaurants and workplace in the state's south east over the eight days since their return.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was

30th Jul 2020, 08:46

NZ domestic demand is back up to 70% of pre covid,
It's a lot easier to practice eradication (or more correctly, extreme suppression) if you are on an island the size of Victoria with less population and borders/access you can totally control.

Xeptu

30th Jul 2020, 10:14

I can only sympathise with the people of Victoria. Where I am we have no known community transmission, but we have our fair share of idiots and who gives a F#ck people, like anywhere else. We are prepared and ready to bug out to our safe zone should that change. That is something we closely monitor and do everything we can to not get infected. We know at some point the decision will be made, it's time to go. We don't expect any intrusions in our safe zone on account of location. I'm devastated that it's come to this on account of the balls ups and incompetence.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was

30th Jul 2020, 13:30

Who is "we"?
do everything we can to not get infected.
Washing your hands and wearing a mask will pretty much cover you. This is not some zombie apocalypse. You don't have to run away and live in a cave. Get a grip man.

Slezy9

30th Jul 2020, 20:29

Who is "we"?

Washing your hands and wearing a mask will pretty much cover you. This is not some zombie apocalypse. You don't have to run away and live in a cave. Get a grip man.

if it’s a simple as that can you explain why so many health care workers are infected?

Climb150

30th Jul 2020, 21:11

if it’s a simple as that can you explain why so many health care workers are infected?
Actually very few health care workers become infected. The only ones I know who did were unaware a patient had CoVID when they treated them.

currawong

30th Jul 2020, 21:21

Actually very few health care workers become infected. The only ones I know who did were unaware a patient had CoVID when they treated them.

Healthcare workers infected in VIC currently stands at over 700.

Correction - "The Premier said 928 active cases in Victoria were connected to aged care settings, and 614 active cases were healthcare workers.

A total of 1,030 healthcare workers have been infected with coronavirus since the pandemic began."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-31/victoria-coronavirus-cases-climb-as-dan-andrews-gives-update/12510618

Xeptu

30th Jul 2020, 21:52

We is my family and we won't be living in a cave, it is my summer residence, my favourite place to be and we won't be doing it tough. As I said previously, we have front line medical staff in the family, the girls have little confidence in current policy and procedure, given how some of them have been asked to relieve victorians because they have fallen to infection, my guess is that their concerns are correct, I wouldn't expect it to be any different here.

Xeptu

30th Jul 2020, 22:03

On the medical front, the girls identified a number of weaknesses and have impressed upon management to strengthen, check and assure all to no avail. Given Victoria had 3 months to prepare like us in full knowledge of the weaknesses, particularly in the aged care sector and our most vulnerable, only to be the very first to go down like the canary in the cave. The girls are right, this is going to be a debacle, one we won't be present to watch. What else can we do. To try and draw a comparison, you think the Medical Industry is up to speed like the Airline Industry, it's not. You are carrying known dangerous goods in the cargo hold. The smoke detectors are fitted but not tested. The retardant lines are fitted but the agent bottles are not. Then one of your flight attendants says, we think we have smoke in the cabin.
On Wednesday we had the worst case of ambulance ramping at our brand new state of the art hospital since it opened, not one of them covid, so how do you think this is going to go.

Left 270

30th Jul 2020, 22:42

Blubak
I agree without NSW and Vic and tourism QLD is screwed.

QLD tourism areas are heavily reliant on international tourism, the major domestic tourism comes from Victorians who won’t be traveling in numbers regardless of the boarder. But let’s not let facts get in the way of a good rant. QLD has, or possibly had the opportunity to have an unhindered state economy with tourism from the states that didn’t bungle the outbreak. The NSW premier has acted like a toddler throughout this, and has hindered the country’s recovery when the got out of step after the lockdown.

Xeptu

30th Jul 2020, 23:20

Actually very few health care workers become infected. The only ones I know who did were unaware a patient had CoVID when they treated them.

And there in lies the problem, we had 3 months "to know" just a suspicion should have been enough. It's 700 front liners in isolation of which 330 are known to be infected in Victoria alone, hence why they are asking for help.

Buster Hyman

31st Jul 2020, 02:39

...Victorians who won’t be traveling in numbers regardless of the boarder.
What have their tenants got to do with this? :}

Traffic_Is_Er_Was

31st Jul 2020, 12:26

A total of 1,030 healthcare workers have been infected with coronavirus since the pandemic began.
Back in April:
A health department spokeswoman, however, said on Friday evening the "overwhelming majority" of healthcare workers contracted the virus outside their workplace - through international travel or through close contact with an infected person.
If you are working in a field where the vast majority of people you come in contact with might actually have Coronavirus, then, yes, the chances are much higher you may catch it. Your exposure is order of magnitudes higher than Joe Public standing in an aisle at Bunnings.

Come in spinner

31st Jul 2020, 13:21

QLD tourism areas are heavily reliant on international tourism, the major domestic tourism comes from Victorians who won’t be traveling in numbers regardless of the boarder. But let’s not let facts get in the way of a good rant. QLD has, or possibly had the opportunity to have an unhindered state economy with tourism from the states that didn’t bungle the outbreak. The NSW premier has acted like a toddler throughout this, and has hindered the country’s recovery when the got out of step after the lockdown.

WTF
so you agree Qld is screwed without international tourism an tourism from NSW and Vic.
did you agree my (rant)?

Come in spinner

31st Jul 2020, 13:31

I actually think out of the premiers the NSW premier has done well a good mix of health and economy.
good messaging
nice empathy
rational decision making

and I don’t live in NSW

601

31st Jul 2020, 15:53

Victorians who won’t be traveling in numbers regardless of the boarder

I believe that all the Victorians are already in Qld. But they did leave their boarders behind.

Xeptu

31st Jul 2020, 17:43

currawong

1st Aug 2020, 01:56

Those managing the pandemic live in the cities and inner burbs, the ones that slap themselves on the back and tell everyone how good we australians are.
The ones that have never seen a Bushfire/Flood emergency escape plan. The ones that don't even have a fire blanket let alone a fire extinguisher in their own homes, you could be one of them. So don't be too surprised if the Pandemic Management turns out to be an Epic Fail.

Indeed.

For a cordon to work, it has to be immediate. Not at midnight sometime next week.

Most of the belated responses to date are tentative, far from proactive and seem to be more about not hurting peoples feelings.

Stickshift3000

1st Aug 2020, 12:53

Indeed.

For a cordon to work, it has to be immediate. Not at midnight sometime next week.

Most of the belated responses to date are tentative, far from proactive and seem to be more about not hurting peoples feelings.

When politicians announce these things, the legislation to enforce it is not yet in place.

For the sake of the thousands that live near the border (and those traveling home) it would be absurd to put up a barrier overnight (Berlin Wall anyone?).

Buster Hyman

1st Aug 2020, 12:56

Indeed.

For a cordon to work, it has to be immediate. Not at midnight sometime next week.

Most of the belated responses to date are tentative, far from proactive and seem to be more about not hurting peoples feelings.
They fail to realise that it can be imposed immediately and enforced from a later date, to ensure those that are still unprepared have time to get sorted. I've heard that MEL will go to Stage 4 from Wednesday, but announced tomorrow...same deal I guess.

Turnleft080

1st Aug 2020, 15:02

[QUOTE=Buster Hyman;10850906]They fail to realise that it can be imposed immediately and enforced from a later date, to ensure those that are still unprepared have time to get sorted. I've heard that MEL will go to Stage 4 from Wednesday, but announced tomorrow...same deal I guess.

Which means stage 3 has failed. We have sanitised, social distanced, masked up, self house arrest, and the numbers rise. Why am I not surprised. Just panic, panic, panic.
Just read the numbers at 11am. Dan hasn't slept in months. He is a broken man and very forlorn. It's all don'ts and no do's.
Six months in still not one comment on how to improve your immune system. Nothing on how to prevent a cytokine storm. How to prevent pneumonia. Nothing on good health.
As I said ages ago the scary thing is not the virus, but how governments react to it. Stage 4 is planned for 6 weeks from Wednesday. Thats going to crush more morale and businesses.
Where is the guarantee that this is going to work. Their is none. OK, lets do another 6 weeks Dan. What ever the numbers are in 6 weeks all borders must open.
If the whole country wore a mask and looked after their own hygiene, I would open all borders tomorrow. Isolate the sick and vulnerable and get the healthy working.
What difference does it make now?

Sunfish

1st Aug 2020, 19:54

Turn left, I had advice yesterday lunchtime. Yes, it’s an NZ style lockdown which is the only thing that works here because of dumb F@#$Ing millennials and criminal scum who won’t social distance. The “criminal scum” comment is accurate by the way, as is documented already by cases.

Where I am, we still have a nursing home full of treasured old people and a whole host of national treasures in their seventies who add to the vibrancy of the community. We would like to keep them.

I had two car loads of dip**** millennials here yesterday - drinking, smoking, swearing bogans who somehow escaped Melbourne for the day and nothing gave me more pleasure than reporting them.

‘’Seriously, this bug is crazily infective. My policeman son explained that, from his training, you should go through a box of gloves a day if you want to keep safe from it in a healthcare setting. As he puts it, we are trying to drive a car backwards at 100 kmh using the rear view mirror. I could be infectious right now - spreading the virus to friends and loved ones, but I won’t know for five days after I have destroyed their health and set them on the same path of infecting others. Isolation is the only tactic that works until we have a vaccine.

‘’Please don’t start the crap about the disease being mild either. Masks help a bit in preventing the spread.

As it is, we have six cases here - that we know of.

A Melbourne person brought it to a restaurant on 22 July. . One waitress got it. She gave it to her son. He is at secondary school. The school is now closed for the future and Forty year twelve kids are sweating on their Covid test results as are their families. If they have spread it to the two supermarkets and fast food hangouts in town then we are stuffed.

White Knight

2nd Aug 2020, 03:23

Isolation is the only tactic that works until we have a vaccine.

And if there is never a vaccine that works? Hide under rocks for ever?

SOPS

2nd Aug 2020, 05:01

Well there goes Victoria.

Section28- BE

2nd Aug 2020, 05:19

ex ABC News: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-02/victoria-coronavirus-restrictions-imposed-death-toll-cases-rise/12515914

Extract:Premier Daniel Andrews said 671 new coronavirus cases had been detected since yesterday and seven more people had died.

Six of the deaths have a connection to aged care.

From 6:00pm tonight, a state of disaster will be declared across Victoria, which will act in addition to the state of emergency.

Mr Andrews said the state of disaster gave police greater power and allowed authorities to suspend acts of Parliament.

rgds
S28- BE

Ladloy

2nd Aug 2020, 08:38

601

2nd Aug 2020, 13:12

Stage 4 is planned for 6 weeks from Wednesday.

They are sending the wrong message by setting a time.
With setting a time, "dip**** millennials" and stupid teenagers will think that it will be over in six weeks.
They should be saying that the Stage 4 will end when the "curve is flattened" as we did at the start.
People may start to take this seriously.

dr dre

2nd Aug 2020, 20:22

I'm country vic too, dumb **** boomers spreading it here.

Yep. But everyone has to blame it on millennials (FYI millennials are over 25).

Last time I checked it wasn’t a millennial conspiracy theorist who was refusing to wear a mask at Bunnings???

Buster Hyman

2nd Aug 2020, 22:03

Last time I checked it wasn’t a millennial conspiracy theorist who was refusing to wear a mask at Bunnings???
No, because they're too busy running through the check points & boasting online...

Ragnor

2nd Aug 2020, 22:04

We cant really go around blaming a generation, there has been some equally dumb 50+ year olds, everyone forgotten about Karen already! Whats done is done and unfortunately a lot of us will pay with our careers now.

The questions that need to be answered- what is QLD plan?! just close up because of two dumb asses! Sydney is under control there are cases yeah but remaining low that was the plan from the beginning I believe, suppression not eradication.
Whats Tasmania's plan?!
Whats S.A plan?!
all these state don't want to listen to the Fed Gov plan and adopt it, but, they will all have their hands out for cash off the Fed Gov for financial support
This country is a rudderless ship at the moment to many different captains pulling at the wheel.

Ladloy

2nd Aug 2020, 22:12

blubak

2nd Aug 2020, 22:25

End date is sunday 13th Sept(supposedly)

Ragnor

2nd Aug 2020, 23:28

Sydney cases have been constant, contract tracing is effective and suppression have been successful. Eradication will never happen unless we do Victoria for a few months

1A_Please

2nd Aug 2020, 23:48

End date is sunday 13th Sept(supposedly)
That is the end of Stage 4. It is possible that Melbourne will come out gradually and go back via Stage 3 for a while. I wouldn't expect reopening of Victorian borders until November at earliest.

Ladloy

2nd Aug 2020, 23:55

Sydney cases have been constant, contract tracing is effective and suppression have been successful. Eradication will never happen unless we do Victoria for a few months
Remind me in a month

Turnleft080

3rd Aug 2020, 07:45

The first wave peaked mid March, the second wave I reckon has peaked now in July so that's a lull of 3 months. If (big if) we hit a 3rd
wave it will hit Dec. Their goes Christmas. Surely that would show the politicians that lockdowns don't work. First one didn't. In the lull it
only needs one case then that leads to 5 then 10 etc. Today, Dan has just killed another 250,000 jobs for what. To hide from a virus that will
still lurk around in Oct/Nov. If that does happen then the Swedish model must be implemented. It should be implemented now, i.e. locked down
the venerable and get the healthy working. The Roman Empire lasted 700-800 years and not one Emperor shut down Rome. One burnt it
down but he was a nut case. Eradication is virtually impossible. NZ have been in a massive lull though the last 3 days 1,2,3 cases have appeared.
Hopefully their isolated. What happens next is anyone's guess.

Another thing, numbers. Vic are doing 25,000 tests a day and on average 500 positives.
5,000,000 pop : ? Answer must be more.
25,000 tests : 500
That's 100,000 out their that are probably asymptomatic probably not isolating.
That's why stage 4 won't work? You cannot stop a tsunami with a shield and bare hands.

CamelSquadron

3rd Aug 2020, 08:00

Some States are pursuing suppression of the virus and Victoria has shown how this approach is a fallacy that will result in far greater economic pain in the long term. Other States are pursuing elimination and the passage of time is showing this to be the more effective approach from both a public health and economic perspective. Throughout this crisis, every conservative decision has proven to be a winner. Every aggressive decision has proven to be a loser.

Xeptu

3rd Aug 2020, 08:19

I can just see your colleagues reaction now, when you are sitting with them and announce you are infected, "but I'm still healthy though and willing to work" you'll be lucky if you can still walk out of the room.

Bend alot

3rd Aug 2020, 08:51

The first wave peaked mid March, the second wave I reckon has peaked now in July so that's a lull of 3 months. If (big if) we hit a 3rd
wave it will hit Dec. Their goes Christmas..
Just a question.

Wave one was a low peak in Australia and Victoria.

Wave two was (may still grow) bigger than wave one.

When both waves began to grow lock downs were introduced to reduce the peak, and the wave subsided.

How exactly did lock-downs not work from a medical point of view?

Given Victoria is just going into stage 4 and 3 rural, can you explain your December peak prediction? - seems a tat early.

P.S. Mid March was not first peak - we only shut the borders on 20 March. End of March (after lock-down coincidentally) is the peak.
If you check the daily reported cases on the link - there may or may not be a peak as of 2 August. Certainly no real sign of a reduction, but it will soon show a reduction - due to lock-downs.

https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers

How is the ICU holding up? need some more medical staff?

currawong

3rd Aug 2020, 09:34

We (the world) are still in the first wave. That is the problem. It has yet to peak.

"the Swedish model must be implemented"

The Swedish model is very close to what we call "stage 3 lockdown".

Total deaths in Sweden exceed total deaths in China. Not corrected for population size.

Rate of deaths in Sweden will shortly overtake that of Italy. (Read as "trainwreck")

Rabbitwear

3rd Aug 2020, 10:01

We need to send all COVID cases to Wuhan !

SOPS

3rd Aug 2020, 10:16

ruprecht

3rd Aug 2020, 10:27

Total deaths in Sweden exceed total deaths in China. Not corrected for population size.

Anyone who believes the official Chinese death toll is an idiot.

morno

3rd Aug 2020, 10:33

Just watching the news. They are now studying what Covid can do to your heart, liver, kidney and brain. Not dying from the virus might be worse than dying from it. I can’t understand all these people that want to “let it rip”
just so they can get back in their jets.

If you catch it.. and survive.. your flying career may be very limited.

Exactly!!!!!!

TurnLeft, feel free to infect yourself and tell us how you go afterwards.

Seems to be a lot of these Facebook University qualifications on here.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1148x1190/811e4b4a_7878_4493_bdee_18227cadf2af_dda2a207989074aec1d9891 01c90929a0ba9ae8f.jpeg

currawong

3rd Aug 2020, 10:35

Anyone who believes the official Chinese death toll is an idiot.

CCP would't lie about that, would they?:}

But seriously, take another example. The US is held aloft by the media as "most/worst" in the world for covid deaths.

Rate of deaths (that is per capita) is still well behind Sweden.

Check out this interactive map if you haven't already -

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million

Turnleft080

3rd Aug 2020, 11:15

QUOTE=morno
TurnLeft, feel free to infect yourself and tell us how you go afterwards.
Seems to be a lot of these Facebook University qualifications on here.

Morno the problem is the virus keeps running away from me when I come near it. When they see/smell/think/judge
or try to infiltrate an immune system that's bullet proof they become week, hopelessly lost, distraught, and they bugger off.
Heck, I've been trying to catch the flu for the last 30 years and I can't even get that right.
I got my medical doctorate in 400BC from the greatest doctor in the world. Don't think Facebook Uni was around those days.

currawong

3rd Aug 2020, 11:40

ha ha, yeah nah.

If you say so...

"human coronaviruses have been linked to myocarditis in patients of all age groups"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199677/

UK reporting rate of around 10%; Comes as quite a surprise to those that were asymptomatic...

chookcooker

3rd Aug 2020, 11:45

If you say so...

"human coronaviruses have been linked to myocarditis in patients of all age groups"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199677/

That sucks. Doesn’t duck as much as dying though. Not even in the same postcode. Wonder how many of the 17.5 Million known survivors wish they were dead?

but no, you go ahead and stand by the assertion that “not dying for the virus might be worse than dying from it”

edit: from you’re own link, in the conclusion: “Several cases of coronavirus-related myocarditis have been reported”

Yes death much preferred.....

currawong

3rd Aug 2020, 11:58

That sucks. Doesn’t duck as much as dying though. Not even in the same postcode. Wonder how many of the 17.5 Million known survivors wish they were dead?

but no, you go ahead and stand by the assertion that “not dying for the virus might be worse than dying from it”

edit: from you’re own link, in the conclusion: “Several cases of coronavirus-related myocarditis have been reported”

Yes death much preferred.....

1/ Apologies - my quote of your post was all that was visible when I replied, as you can see in the quote.

2/ Check the date on the paper. That info is 3 months old, in a 6 month old pandemic.

Lot of UK contributors here on Jetblast if you want a glimpse of the future.

Xeptu

3rd Aug 2020, 12:33

The health care situation on the front line in Vic is now dire. While most won't admit it publicly, most of the girls won't go to Melb to help. They're saying should that happen here we are walking away. We are not soldiers and not risking our lives for Idiots. That should be a clear indication of what to expect as this pandemic spreads.

Turnleft, you are in Melb and claim to be immune, so you don't even need PPE, You should be on the front line helping fight this instead of sitting on your arse expressing your opinion on how this should be managed.

chookcooker

3rd Aug 2020, 21:24

1/ Apologies - my quote of your post was all that was visible when I replied, as you can see in the quote.

2/ Check the date on the paper. That info is 3 months old, in a 6 month old pandemic.

Lot of UK contributors here on Jetblast if you want a glimpse of the future.

1) Im responding to The specific claim that people are better off dying than surviving

this is patently ridiculous.

And if such assertions are the quality of insight of people in this site, I’m going to go with a no on reading jetblast thanks. I’ll talk to my UK and Italian relatives in real life.

Before you respond, please read 1) again. The bolded bit.

Xeptu

4th Aug 2020, 00:15

It doesn't literally mean that, of course one is not better off dying.
My Grandpa had a triple bypass in his 60's to save his life, the miracle of modern science he said at the time, gave him another 28 years.
Unfortunately about 10 years later everything else began to fail, to the point he couldn't do the simple things he enjoyed, like reading. He had a few minor strokes, so he couldn't play his piano anymore because he couldn't remember what came next. In his last decade he used to wake up and say "bugger I'm still here" It was sad to see that,

The point that is being made is that you don't want to be in a position where you're alive but have no quality of life, particularly if your'e not all that old.

Section28- BE

4th Aug 2020, 05:14

ABC Link: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-04/victoria-police-concerned-sovereign-citizens-amid-mask-assault/12522332

Extract:

"During that scuffle, this 38-year-old woman smashed the head of the policewoman several times into a concrete area on the ground."

WOW........, Really!!!!!

rgds
S28

currawong

4th Aug 2020, 06:54

1) Im responding to The specific claim that people are better off dying than surviving

this is patently ridiculous.

And if such assertions are the quality of insight of people in this site, I’m going to go with a no on reading jetblast thanks. I’ll talk to my UK and Italian relatives in real life.

Before you respond, please read 1) again. The bolded bit.

I have apologised for the misunderstanding.

As I said, the only part of your since deleted post I could see was "Ha ha, yeah nah", which put forward an entirely different impression to the point you were trying to convey.

Which I happen to agree with.

Not sure what went wrong with your post.

Turnleft080

4th Aug 2020, 08:34

Blessed is he who in the name of ex ABC: Victorian coronavirus rulebreakers warned as Melbourne woman charged......ABC Link: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-...sault/12522332 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-04/victoria-police-concerned-sovereign-citizens-amid-mask-assault/12522332)

Extract:

Quote:
"During that scuffle, this 38-year-old woman smashed the head of the policewoman several times into a concrete area on the ground."
WOW........, Really!!!!!

rgds
S28

In a state of disaster I thought the police have the authority to override the rule book. She should of pointed her gun at her and say something like,
"Blessed is he who in the name of cherish and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness for he is truly his keeper and the finder of lost children.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers."
"Now musk up." That ought to do it.

Australopithecus

4th Aug 2020, 09:36

Where I come from, and when I was a cop, that would be met with a .45 warning shot into the forehead. No lines from Pulp Fiction either.

Xeptu

4th Aug 2020, 09:44

Which leaves only this. For you dumb arse city people intent on exercising your civil rights, if you happen to stumble upon our private property in the regions without invitation or consent, be sure to have your sign up on a long pole, it'll give us something to aim at. Of course if we have to aim a second time we won't be aiming at no sign. The yabbies have to eat too, make a nice change from roo meat.

SOPS

4th Aug 2020, 09:46

What the fcuk is wrong with people? I hope the person is locked up.

Section28- BE

4th Aug 2020, 09:46

Where I come from, and when I was a cop, that would be met with a .45 warning shot into the forehead. No lines from Pulp Fiction either.

Reckon, 'that' sounds- Proportionate/& Appropriate...... a, .308 ex a chopper, probably 'not' so much (????)- but, guess it is what your boundaries 'are'- ta.

rgds/& be Well
S28- BE

blubak

4th Aug 2020, 22:32

ABC Link: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-04/victoria-police-concerned-sovereign-citizens-amid-mask-assault/12522332

Extract:

WOW........, Really!!!!!

rgds
S28
Why isnt that woman in jail NOW,these threats of full extent of the law being used are just grand standing & chest beating exercises by the hierachy.
Dont give this type of offender any time to prepare evidence for a court appearance in 3,6 or however many months time,how much more evidence is needed!
As a side issue,maybe not the smartest idea to have 2 young female constables working together in this scenario considering what has happened,bit more thought needs to go into who works with who.

KRviator

4th Aug 2020, 22:44

During that scuffle, this 38-year-old woman smashed the head of the [26-year-old] policewoman several times into a concrete area on the ground.Source (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-04/victoria-police-concerned-sovereign-citizens-amid-mask-assault/12522332)"Smashed her head into concrete several times" - but not a drop of blood on the (female) constables head, neck hair, hands or uniform. OR am I just being cynical as I get older?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EejNDXqU8AIO5wa.jpg

Ragnor

4th Aug 2020, 23:19

This thread needs to be re names “All borders to remain closed indefinitely”

brokenagain

4th Aug 2020, 23:23

BNEA320 has been banned so which one of his alter ego’s will pop up to address this? :}

jrfsp

4th Aug 2020, 23:41

QLD border to close to NSW/ACT ...again...from Sunday.
This is more disruptive than the WA/TAS/SA/NT approach to just stay closed.

blubak

5th Aug 2020, 01:16

"Smashed her head into concrete several times" - but not a drop of blood on the (female) constables head, neck hair, hands or uniform. OR am I just being cynical as I get older?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EejNDXqU8AIO5wa.jpg
Just heard Patten talking about this on radio...aw no previous convictions,assessed the circumstances,all the usual big words to make oneself look & sound important,no wonder people are cynical.
2 young cops just trying to do their job & even if over exagerated,what sort of message is given in the response by their boss,disgusting.

C441

5th Aug 2020, 02:38

Why isnt that woman in jail NOW,these threats of full extent of the law being used are just grand standing & chest beating exercises by the hierachy.

Or maybe the woman in question was having a mental health issue that lead to an out-of-character severe act of aggression.
Rather than criticising the Police Chief based on facts limited to those reported in the media, maybe we could consider that his course of action is delivered to minimise the possible disadvantageous and ineffective outcome that may ensue with further sensationalised media reporting.

We have a family member with a mild intellectual disability. Most of the time she's as placid as a teddy bear but under stress she can become quite a handful; thankfully never to the extent of actually injuring anyone.

I have no idea if this was the case in Frankston, but maybe, just maybe, the Police Commissioner is acting on more advice than we are privy to……..

Mach E Avelli

5th Aug 2020, 02:48

Or maybe the woman in question was having a mental health issue that lead to an out-of-character severe act of aggression.
……..

Alternatively she could simply be a nasty piece of work.
Suspected terrorists may be held without charge for up to 14 days, so why not enact similar legislation for those f#%%wits who endanger the public and our national economy?
If a few were made an example of by spending 14 days in the cells we would soon have others thinking twice about testing their so-called 'civil liberties'.

Ex FSO GRIFFO

5th Aug 2020, 04:37

Do the Vics have enuf cells....????

No Cheers 'ere.......

Turnleft080

5th Aug 2020, 09:02

VICTORIA-THE COVID STATE. Citizens Of Victoria Ignoring Directions
Coming to a rego plate near you.

White Knight

5th Aug 2020, 19:37

for those f#%%wits who endanger the public and our national economy?

That will be your state premiers then?

You lot can't see the wood for the trees!!!!

plotplot

5th Aug 2020, 23:54

Reading the first couple of pages of this thread is a good reminder that no one here actually knows Jack sh!t.

Ex-

Hearin you Mr 'plain-fabricator': Is, NOT all this 'support'/welfare/child-care (in point of Fact ref, this), etc. funded/fully franked at 100 cents in 'the' dollar, and beyond- at this time....???

How, would 'one' pull 'this'- out of a GST increase/blunt TOOL......???? and have any Economy remaining to move forward, with..???

Repeat the same actions,........ and then, expect a.......????

Rgds all
S28- BE

Mate, you are an english teacher's worst nightmare. Trying to decipher your grammatical structure is painful and for some reason quite frustrating.

Xeptu

6th Aug 2020, 02:04

You lot can't see the wood for the trees!!!!

It's you lot can't see the Forest for the Trees

Turnleft080

8th Aug 2020, 11:10

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews has told families this year’s Christmas dinner will be anything but a normal one.
When asked what the likelihood of that restriction being eased before Christmas, Andrews was tight-lipped.
That's from the channel 7 news tonight.

Then the next item on the news, was an anti virus drug (of the flu variety )that can kill covid in 4 days which is being given to the elderly
and being tested to see how the drug performs. More results will come out in the next week or two. If we get quicker amount of recoveries
then Dan can retract the above statement. In fact flu and covid would then be on level pegging. I believe we have never shut down for flu.
It can still spread and make you ill, but it can no longer kill you. That's all we need for now. A drug that doesn't kill you.
A vaccine could be still a year away. If we get more positive info from this anti viral, then all lockdowns all borders must open.

SOPS

8th Aug 2020, 11:29

WA Premier on the Channel 7 news tonight said the WA border may stay shut until 2022. 85 percent of West Australians support this. Clive Palmer his not popular here!!

Capt Fathom

8th Aug 2020, 12:05

2022? The WA Premier will not be there that long!

plotplot

8th Aug 2020, 12:18

That's from the channel 7 news tonight.

Then the next item on the news, was an anti virus drug (of the flu variety )that can kill covid in 4 days which is being given to the elderly
and being tested to see how the drug performs.

There are a host of antiviral drugs that have already been in trials for months. They're a treatment, not a cure and certainly not a preventative measure so will do nothing to ease border restrictions. Sorry to sound cynical, just keeping it real. I'd like to get home to see my family at Christmas as well but I'm not banking on it.

SOPS

8th Aug 2020, 12:27

2022? The WA Premier will not be there that long!

With an election coming up.. and his current popularity, i think he will be there. I’m a Liberal voter.. but I think the WA libs are now dead in the water. Liza Harvey ( WA Liberal leader ) has done nothing but upset the bulk of the WA population.

Turnleft080

8th Aug 2020, 13:19

There are a host of antiviral drugs that have already been in trials for months. They're a treatment, not a cure and certainly not a preventative measure so will do nothing to ease border restrictions. Sorry to sound cynical, just keeping it real. I'd like to get home to see my family at Christmas as well but I'm not banking on it.
Fair enough though this one had more hope. They said they will keep administering this drug so I will keep an eye on it.
They way they presented it was like really encouraging news. I keep watching this space.
As far as lockdown till Christmas and borders closed till 2022 never mine zombie businesses we will all become zombies.
Relegated to the Recession league, then Depression league, what's the name for the third division?

dr dre

8th Aug 2020, 14:08

WA Premier on the Channel 7 news tonight said the WA border may stay shut until 2022. 85 percent of West Australians support this. Clive Palmer his not popular here!!

Totally blown out of proportion. That was not said.

McGowan said the border re-opening would depend on the reduction of community spread in other states. He refused to put a date on when that would happen. It could be by Christmas or mid next year. Nowhere was a timeframe of 2022 mentioned. Also it could involve re-opening travel to certain jurisdictions only. 85% of West Australian’s support the Premiers current actions on closing the border at the moment, not until 2022.

With an election coming up.. and his current popularity, i think he will be there. I’m a Liberal voter.. but I think the WA libs are now dead in the water. Liza Harvey ( WA Liberal leader ) has done nothing but upset the bulk of the WA population.

All the avowed Liberal Party supporters I’ve spoken to lately have stated they’ll be voting for McGowan next state election. Barring some upcoming shock next March’s WA state election will be one of the most lop sided in Australian history. The WA government attitude to the border won’t be changing with a change of government, it’ll come with a decrease in the pandemic on the east coast.

White Knight

8th Aug 2020, 19:25

You lot can't see the wood for the trees!!!!

It's you lot can't see the Forest for the Trees

Sorry for the misunderstanding cobber. In England we generally have woods. An exception being Sherwood Forest. You still can't see the wood for the trees bless you!

Ragnor

8th Aug 2020, 22:12

WA will not open anytime soon, they don't need to they have plenty employment, McGowan said this week if you're FIFO and work in WA you should live in WA that exemption of FIFO workers coming in is believed to be pulled anytime now.
QLD who knows what she is doing giving 200K to VA to preserve jobs in QLD, well that worked a treat. There has been no rational explanation to close from NSW, NSW has cases in Sydney they have been constant in numbers for a month and have been very well managed to find the sources and have those close contacts self isolate. NSW is learning to live with the virus rest of the country needs to learn to live with it also, and open up because this is affecting big business now.

Only way to force the states hands into rational thinking is the Fed Gov cutting job keeper even tho I am on job keeper I would most certainly vote for it to be discontinued as its dragging this pandemic out. Job keeper is doing more harm than good now. Really why should the federal government pay for workers in each state when each state doesn't listen or take advice off the federal government anyway. QLD is broke make their own gov pay the bills see how long they last.

Australopithecus

8th Aug 2020, 22:26

Feeling a little fraught this morning Ragnor?

Ragnor

8th Aug 2020, 22:40

Ha, no. But, it is time to learn to live with it we have suppressed it that was the original intention. If they're serious about eradication which I am OK with, well we better start by closing international borders first, completely, no exemptions no hotels nothing.

goodonyamate

8th Aug 2020, 22:53

Australopithecus

8th Aug 2020, 23:07

I wrote to the prime minister saying the same. The states should be funding all welfare directly related to the closure of borders, ie the domestic tourism industry. A myopic view, perhaps, but the reason domestic pilots are not at work is the rogue state premiers. Make them pay, directly or through a reduction in future fund distribution. Watch the premiers bleat then. WA? Good for now...until the world descends further into chaos, exports stop due war etc etc...when they come begging for money, perhaps the federal govt response should be ‘you wanted to stand alone, nows your chance’.

australia....one country, made up of 8 other countries apparently.

So who are you blaming? The hand-wringing do-gooders in Victoria who thought that cultural inclusiveness should be an overriding concern in a pandemic response or the premiers who are doing their best to eradicate the virus? *

i agree that there should be no international arrivals unless they want to quarantine in some remote camp which has resident guards.

*Which is not a unique Victorian impulse-Canada delayed banning flights from China for far too long because it was seen as being discriminatory.

Turnleft080

9th Aug 2020, 01:27

Breaking news Dan is about to come to the microphone at 11.30am. Same speech as yesterday and the same speech as for tomorrow
and the next day, only with different numbers. It's Sunday so he should have the NorthFace jacket on this time representing outdoor recreation.

dr dre

9th Aug 2020, 01:34

Breaking news Dan is about to come to the microphone at 11.30am. Same speech as yesterday and the same speech as for tomorrow
and the next day, only with different numbers. .

He’s facing the media. If he wasn’t you’d be criticising him for hiding from the public. At least he isn’t pissing off to Hawaii on holidays.

Turnleft080

9th Aug 2020, 01:54

He’s facing the media. If he wasn’t you’d be criticising him for hiding from the public. At least he isn’t pissing off to Hawaii on holidays.
The country would probably run better if all the state pollies went to Hawaii. A tier of red tape gone. Like organising your own separation in a CTAF.

currawong

9th Aug 2020, 02:03

"Like organising your own separation in a CTAF."

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Life is full of challenges, if that rates perhaps you are in the wrong business.

Ragnor

9th Aug 2020, 02:40

At least he isn’t pissing off to Hawaii on holidays.

Everyone is entitled to a holiday with their family even the PM, this was pre organized at the time and was only made a big deal by left wing f#$k tards.

Turnleft080

9th Aug 2020, 02:58

Everyone is entitled to a holiday with their family even the PM, this was pre organized at the time and was only made a big deal by left wing f#$k tards.
Well said bro. All our pollies look absolutely forlorn and exhausted when ever you see them on tv.
The CTAF analogy was in relation to doing either 3 holding patterns then intercepting final 20 miles out.
No disrespect to you ATC folk.

Buster Hyman

9th Aug 2020, 03:40

The country would probably run better if all the state pollies went to Hawaii. A tier of red tape gone.
I think it's the next level down that's the problem. Dept. Secretaries and the like earn almost as much, if not more, than the actual Pollies. They are the ones providing advice & guidance to the elected mouthpieces and some of them live in their protected Public Service bubble, without ever realising there's a world out there where you earn your pay through performance.

Turnleft080

9th Aug 2020, 05:06

Probably right buster. Only 5 weeks to go.
I won't attached it here, but if someone needs a laugh (and we need a laugh) take a look at Youtube 'Bunnings ad for Karen'.

Deaf

9th Aug 2020, 06:22

Pollies and senior public serpents need protection from the virus. No need for Hawaii, keep them in Australia there is a airstrip at Casey Station in Antarctica

Buttscratcher

9th Aug 2020, 10:36

and thus...Antarctica shall benefit from Victorian's Social Inclusion'

Derfred

9th Aug 2020, 11:13

Everyone is entitled to a holiday with their family even the PM, this was pre organized at the time and was only made a big deal by left wing f#$k tards.

Agreed.

Apparently the Jetstar cancellation fees at the time were ridiculous.

It would have been a complete waste of taxpayers’ money to absorb those cancellation fees while his country was burning to the ground.

After all, the unpaid volunteer fire-fighters were eating into the budget.

He had no choice, when you think about it.

601

9th Aug 2020, 13:17

Only 5 weeks to go.
The criteria for easing the restrictions should be when the community transmission is reduced to below a published level, NOT a timeframe.

By stating a time, a lot of people will take that as meaning it will be all over after 6 weeks.
If people do not isolate as much as possible and be covidsafe, we could well be in the same position in 6 weeks as we are now.
I think that the attention span has been exceeding with a lot of the population.

DirectAnywhere

9th Aug 2020, 13:39

The criteria for easing the restrictions should be when the community transmission is reduced to below a published level, NOT a timeframe.

It kinda slipped under the radar a couple of weeks ago in all the noise but the PM finally stated/ admitted that Australia's stated goal of "supression" actually means zero community transmission ie. if you expect the borders to open, the only permitted cases would be those in hotel quarantine, and you can expect the premiers will want to know exactly what that means in other jurisdictions going forward.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jul/24/national-cabinet-commits-to-covid-19-suppression-strategy-to-secure-zero-community-transmissions

Most of the world would view this regime as eradication and an unreasonable goal. However, this is the standard Australian governments appear to have set. It's become apparent from Queensland's actions in relation to NSW that that's their interpretation, particularly in view of an upcoming election. Expect the borders to stay closed for a while.

Australia's states and territories might as well be 8 different countries now. It's remarkable to see states boasting of putting "tough" border policies in place against Australian citizens. "Stop the boats" seems to have become "Stop everyone". Crazy times.

Derfred

9th Aug 2020, 17:12

It’s not so stupid.

Eradication (of community transmission that is, excluding inbound quarantine, provided steps are taken to ensure that quarantine actually works for a change) would be way better for the economy, because as soon as you have it, you can completely open the domestic economy, and also open bubbles with countries who also have it, such as NZ.

With eradication of community transmission, state borders would open, and domestic tourism would return to near normal (less the domestic tourism by international tourists, but increased by locals who would have otherwise traveled overseas). Schools, restaurants, pubs, bands, footy... all back to normal. Just a closed international border. Yes, there might be a lag in tourism and spending by those who have suffered job losses or lower incomes in recent times (often described as a “recession”), but I think economists might be surprised by the domestic surge in discretionary spending as soon as there is a positive sign in the domestic economy, and that it is actually “allowed” again. I have many friends who can’t wait for a big holiday - as soon as they are allowed to!

International students could even gradually come back, but just at a controlled rate with intensely controlled quarantine requirements.

To make it happen would require very hard and unpleasant restrictions, but a shorter term of unpleasantness might yield an improved economy in a shorter time frame than the current ongoing neverending uncertainty, which appears to be resulting in a very poor economy anyway.

Victoria is having a go, right now, and my personal opinion is that they are not going hard enough.

NSW is doing very little, and I suspect that will hurt NSW, and by extension, Australia.

To suggest that we would be better off, economically speaking, by just “living with it”, is to ignore what is happening in the rest of the world. A lot of the rest of the world is trying to just “live with it” and their economy is tanking far worse than ours. A good economist would have a good think about that.

Now, I’m not insensitive to the fact that I am suggesting this on a pilot website. There are many pilots, myself included, who want international borders opened, so we can all get back to work.

Well, we have bugger-all chance of getting back to work until we can sort out our own country. And that means opening state borders. So let’s sort out our own country out first. Only then can we look at international flying.

If that means going hard for community transmission eradication, then I am all for it. We should have done it months ago.

Economically speaking, that is our best bet.

currawong

9th Aug 2020, 21:37

Derfred -

Could not agree more.

DirectAnywhere

9th Aug 2020, 22:01

I guess the frustration from my point of view is that leaders were running around spruiking "suppression, suppression, suppression" from March until mid-July but what did that mean? 10 cases a day, 50?, contact tracing and localised lockdowns? No-one in the broader community had any idea what that actually looked like until it was explicitly stated a couple of weeks ago. That's the first time I ever heard the phrase "zero-community transmission" and, like many of us, I've been following this pretty closely. I don't have any particular problem if eradication is the goal but the government should have made clear to the public early that its stated goal of "suppression", really meant eradication.

We may well have been there in early June with several days of zero cases reported in all states and territories, but systemic failures brought us undone. Worryingly, it means that everything needs to be perfect from here on. Harsh lessons have been learnt in relation to hotel quarantine. New Zealand fortunately dodged a couple of bullets in that area of vulnerability too. If the public are not on board, for example, if 15% of positive cases are still failing to self-isolate as evidenced by door-knocking in Victoria last week, then we are in for a very difficult time indeed.

Mach E Avelli

9th Aug 2020, 22:28

Well said Derfred!

Although Dangerous Dan of Victoria will be judged harshly and rightly so, mostly we have seen good leadership by the authorities here while other countries encumbered with incompetent leaders have been a train wreck - the USA being the classic. Mistakes in the early days were made by all, as no one really understood the full impact of the virus until it already got a hold, but we learned quickly. All except some in Victoria anyway...but they have long suffered from a disproportionately lawless society.
ScoMo has had the good sense to back away from insisting that W.A., S.A. and Tas need to open their borders.

Square Bear

9th Aug 2020, 22:35

Victoria is having a go, right now, and my personal opinion is that they are not going hard enough.

Victoria went harder than all States (fining young people having driving lessons etc) , but the carrying out of its Hotel Quarantine policy, refusal for offered military assistance, weak response to BLM demonstrations (that caused a “it must be alright” attitude amongst the general population) let it down.

Your premise that They are not now doing enough doesn’t ring true. There are no international arrivals needing to be quarantined, there is a nightly curfew, permits are required if you need to go to work, you can only leave home for an hour a day to exercise, you can be arrested for not wearing a mask and employers will be fined if you needlessly go to work.

i wonder what more you think should be done....perhaps 24 hour lockdown, Tanks in the street, armed soldiers patrolling with orders to shoot those out and about?

Your comments re Scomo being on Christmas break during the Fires (they were State responsibility btw) actually give good arguement for getting rid of State Government's, that episode showed that a Federal response is far more effective than that led by the States in their individuality.

currawong

10th Aug 2020, 02:00

It is an interesting exercise to compare the headlines with what is actually happening in the world.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million

Sweden vs. US

Uk vs. Brazil

Australia vs. Venezuela...(Venezuela wouldn't under report, would they?):hmm:

CamelSquadron

10th Aug 2020, 02:32

Victoria went hard at it in name only. There was a lot of tough talking without substance to follow it.

On the ground, some sectors of the community were ignoring the requirements and were not being punished for doing so.

Some other states took non-compliance much more seriously than Victoria. The crackdown has come in Victoria but it was too late.

For all the negativity that was flung at WA, it has made the right decisions.

KRviator

10th Aug 2020, 02:54

For all the negativity that was flung at WA, it has made the right decisions.WA has made the right decisions for WA only, and to hell with the rest of the country.

McGowan was whinging about all those positive results from "the eastern states", without mentioning that the vast majority of international arrivals came through those eastern states after he had a dummy spit about the number of arrivals through Perth and got that cut back to some ridiculously low percentage. He is now, effectively, holding several of my colleagues hostage in WA as if they were to dare leave WA to, you know, to maybe be with their families they haven't seen since February/March, they will not be allowed back into WA. No entry = no work = no pay, conversely, there are several more of my colleagues who want to get in to get back to work, and you guessed it, no entry = no work = no pay. Never mind the fact none of them are in a Covid hotspot, "they're from NSW/Vic so they're carrying The Pestilence"...

About time WA realised they need to carry their share of the load.

vne165

10th Aug 2020, 03:11

Think they are doing their share of the heavy lifting actually... someone has to keep the lights on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_states_and_territories_by_gross_state_pro duct

Turnleft080

10th Aug 2020, 04:45

[QUOTE=Square Bear;10857042]
I wonder what more you think should be done....perhaps 24 hour lockdown, Tanks in the street, armed soldiers patrolling with orders to shoot those out and about?

Does have that East German feel to it. Nothing like trying to jump that wall into NSW/QLD. Our Charlie is now check point Albury.
On a serious note at least cases are starting to drop slowly in Vic. Last 6 days the trend started at 714, then a series of low 400s, 386, and today 323.
What is that community transmission reduced published level? What model is Dan basing his numbers too? Wish he could tell us.
The numbers in Mexico (that's the real mexicans; people) have gone absolutely nuts. Yesterday was 6500 cases and 700 deaths.

Buster Hyman

10th Aug 2020, 06:15

What model is Dan basing his numbers too? Wish he could tell us.

Once again, he's holding onto the modelling...

Some strange cats in WA. Don't mention you're from the East Coast if you want to make friends anywhere North of the 'big smoke'. Just say you're from down South and they'll assume PER.

Ex FSO GRIFFO

10th Aug 2020, 06:39

I do suspect that I can guess exactly 'wot' he is holding onto...................

Any Takers..?????????

Cheeerrrsss............................

wheels_down

10th Aug 2020, 09:36

Playing hardball with state borders seems to be the new normal.

It seems to be heading in the direction that they will remain closed until December 31. With conditions attached on travel the day they open.

The PM would not speculate dates when asked today but just forecasted ‘probably summer’.

SOPS

10th Aug 2020, 10:45

KRviator

10th Aug 2020, 11:40

Don't you love how one man, who is not even an elected official, can stop 14.5 million people from entering a state - and none of those ~15M people have any legal recourse to challenge that decision? That this one man can dictate terms to over half the country is an affront to both the concept of a nation and our constitution that protects freedom of movement between the states and freedom of disability or discrimination based on your state.

Turnleft080

10th Aug 2020, 13:01

The longer this goes on the more frustration will take place. Victorians will start to get anxious about everything in life, jobs/relationships/finance as I heard
callers on talk back radio today. All state premiers have subtlety jibed each other, last week Josh Fry has basically said fix the bloody problem Dan your holding me up.
You can see the tension and you can see they are all under pressure. The barbs could get worse as we go on. A lot is at stake in these next 5 weeks. I know 601 you mentioned it's not a time frame.
However were homo sapien, creatures of the social variety and being locked in for 23 hours and some shopping within 5km and curfew from 8 will start to do your head in. More frustration will accumulate.

The press conferences are just dower. Just a numbers game. How about bringing in a herbalist, natural path, (Jenny and Brett) to provide ideas how to improve your immune system.
What a dam good idea?
Have you ever listened to the House of Wellness Gerald Quigley a week ago he even aired some good studies in zinc/magnesium/Vit D. Well how interesting.
All the draconian restrictions does nothing but lower your immune system. Now that's a bad idea. Why, because of the emotional/physical/chemical stresses which also leads to eating too
much junk food, those chains outlets remain open, funny that in a pandemic. Good model this one.

Ragnor

10th Aug 2020, 21:30

He said they could not put a date on easing border restrictions, it could be a month or it could be a year link here for one article. (https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/coronavirus/coronavirus-crisis-premier-mark-mcgowan-warns-wa-hard-border-could-stay-until-mid-next-year-ng-b881633246z)Interesting quote tho "Mr McGowan has previous ruled out a travel bubble with other states which have maintained low cases, and says the eastern states will have to eliminate community spread before he will consider lifting border restrictions".

As for QLD, I believe they will remain closed definitely until November after the election and realistically until it has been eradicated in NSW and Victoria so get ready for potentially years of this, Aviation will now be by far biggest hit at the end of this. With no vaccine on the horizon and if there were would you inject it?! I know I wouldn't.

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE

10th Aug 2020, 22:35

. With no vaccine on the horizon and if there were would you inject it?! I know I wouldn't.

Except for the 150 vaccine candidates in clinical trial, including the front runner oxford vaccine which has shown a strong antibody and T cell immune response as well as no adverse side effects.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-is-safe-and-triggers-strong-immune-response-human-trials-show

Perhaps we have different definitions of 'on the horizon' or perhaps you take joy in being a doomsday soothsayer, but if a vaccine is 6-12 months away, I would call that on the horizon.

And yes, if it has passed all the clinical trials, I wouldn't have an issue taking it.

Ragnor

11th Aug 2020, 02:59

Definitely not a doomsday sayer more I’ve been optimistic with my colleagues with this. The time has come to be realistic also on the severity of the situation the suppression/eradication boat has long sailed in NSW and VIC it will not happen unless we stop international arrivals and do a full lock down in NSW along with VIC, as no one wants to learn to live with it that’s only option. I just hope AJ 3 yr plan still include me in it, along with my colleagues.
WA can support domestic travel with in their own border QLD they can also. As for the rest of the states we can’t. word is international travel won’t be allowed until 2022 now, unless there is a vaccine or eradication Domestic will not return anytime soon, I can’t see it coming back this yr.
I hear you with those vaccines I also have been keeping an eye on what’s going on, but, I’m sure their own country like (UK) for Oxford or (USA) moderna will fast track approval but what’s the bet Australian approval will not be so quick without proper research and testing no one will sign off on its use in Australia.
Next big question, how do current airlines operating in WA and QLD keep their pilots current without having to fork out 14 days of hotel accomodation upon their return! Virgin could very well be the only airline flying in QLD as they have a sim in Brisbane, no idea where Alliance is.

Australopithecus

11th Aug 2020, 04:22

1A_Please

11th Aug 2020, 04:42

Get ready for back to the future. A few decades ago you had to present a yellow-covered international health record of vaccinations. No jab, no fly. Pretty simple. I can imagine that the government (and airlines, for that matter) to require evidence of vaccination to cross state borders. Certainly international ones.

Australia does not require local stage three testing for medicines for what should be obvious reasons. That’s what peer reviewed science is for, and federal approvals in the jurisdictions of invention. Just like aircraft type certificates haven't been (pre-max) second guessed for 25 or so years now.
Already a number of African countries require a Yellow Fever vaccination card before allowing entry into their country. This will just extend with Covid. Countries will not permit entry of non-vaccinated travelers which will need to be supported by a vaccination card or passport stamp and insurance companies will refuse to cover them. You can be an anti-vaxxer but you'd better be one that doesn't want to travel.