All borders to reopen.

[compressor stall]

I feel the same - in practice that you should be able to go, but you join last place on the list.

My gut feeling, however, is that - especially as AU is such a multi cultural nation - there would be an exodus. Then once awaythere is no way of pushing them to the back of the queue. It would be the subject of legal challenges. The current inbound caps driven by quarantine are probably legal - although no-one has challenged it yet. The maintaining of the queue is broadly (and conveniently for the Govt) done through the airlines (and we hear about that repeatedly) with the odd QF repat charter thrown in.

As such, it's easier to keep the gates generally shut going outbound except for compassionate reasons and specific other reasons. And in my experience they do check.

I'd be interested to know what the person travelling to India told ABF as the reasons for travel.....I'd be surprised if permission was granted to attend a wedding.

[SOPS]

The Premier said that his information was they went for a wedding. Arrival cap into WA just been cut in half, and won’t be going back oto any higher until the Feds help with HQ.

And wow!! Is he cross about people leaving and then wanting to come back. He just said.. IT MUST STOP!!

[rcoight]

It’s extremely lame of the Labor premiers to try to blame the Feds whenever HQ goes pear-shaped. Pure politics. Nothing else.

Whether you think the Feds should be controlling this or not, it was the state premiers who insisted that they wanted to run the show in their own states.

You reap what you sow.

[SOPS]

Explain this to me. In Jan 2021 it was reported there were about 35000 Australians overseas wanting to come home. Mark McGowan said today that WA alone had processed 45000 people through HQ. Where do all these people keep coming from? Surely we must have almost cleared the backlog by now? Or are they coming and going at will?

[StudentInDebt]

Explain this to me. In Jan 2021 it was reported there were about 35000 Australians overseas wanting to come home. Mark McGowan said today that WA alone had processed 45000 people through HQ. Where do all these people keep coming from? Surely we must have almost cleared the backlog by now? Or are they coming and going at will?There is a difference between the number registered with DFAT as wanting to return and the number actually returning https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/why-australians-are-still-waiting-to-come-home-20201210-p56mbg.html
You don’t have to be registered to return to Australia, just complete a declaration 72 hours before you get on a plane.
https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/australia-travel-declaration

[halfmoon]

I can tell you it's extremely easy to get an exemption to go overseas provided its for family reasons. And I can tell you it's extremely easy for foreigners to come to Australia provided there's a valid reason. I just met 12 university baseball players visiting a university in Australia from the US. They had been in Australia 8 weeks they said. That's 12 less seats for Australians.
most people coming into Australia are not even Australian or residents.

[turbantime]

Look how easily politicians distract you. Who cares where he was and where he went. The failing was the HQ system and not accepting the recommendations around it. This time it was a wedding, next time it might be a funeral. Same outcry? Mark has pulled the old “look over there” and run away while you all fall for it.

[blubak]

Look how easily politicians distract you. Who cares where he was and where he went. The failing was the HQ system and not accepting the recommendations around it. This time it was a wedding, next time it might be a funeral. Same outcry? Mark has pulled the old “look over there” and run away while you all fall for it.
There are certainly valid points here,that hotel was identified as 1 of the worst if not the worst in the system & should not be used for HQ purposes.
I dont think for 1 moment though that the feds are innocent in the decision making,they like to sit back & watch & when something goes wrong try & come up with an excuse.
Obviously India is a huge problem right now but what decisive steps have they made to protect us?

[Buster Hyman]

I wish Joyce would do a "Rex style rant" on all of these Pollies. :suspect: Something Packer-esque would suffice.

[dysslexicgod]

Repatriate Australians from Covid19 hotspots around the world including Third world countries with no possibility of pre departure quarantine and/or dodgy screening or testing. A non - zero percentage will be infected.

Use airliners for repatriation. Cram infected and non infected people and crews in an aluminium tube for 20+ hours.

On arrival, assume none of the crews and passengers are infected with Covid19.

Transport passengers, assumed to be uninfected mind you, to central city hotels that are not purpose built quarantine facilities and inform them they must stay there for 14 days.

Tend to the passengers needs - food, cleaning, laundry, etc. in the hotels using normal hotel staff and procedures - the staff go home to their families every night.

What could possibly go wrong?

[Servo]

Repatriate Australians from Covid19 hotspots around the world including Third world countries with no possibility of pre departure quarantine and/or dodgy screening or testing. A non - zero percentage will be infected.

Use airliners for repatriation. Cram infected and non infected people and crews in an aluminium tube for 20+ hours.

On arrival, assume none of the crews and passengers are infected with Covid19.

Transport passengers, assumed to be uninfected mind you, to central city hotels that are not purpose built quarantine facilities and inform them they must stay there for 14 days.

Tend to the passengers needs - food, cleaning, laundry, etc. in the hotels using normal hotel staff and procedures - the staff go home to their families every night.

What could possibly go wrong?

Nothing/sarcasm.

Meanwhile all the politicians, their staff and hundreds of departments have their lives go on, no loss of jobs, no loss of income or houses. They simply do not care as it doesnt affect them directly.

[Icarus2001]

On arrival, assume none of the crews and passengers are infected with Covid19. This is the opposite of what happens.
All arrivals are treated as infected. Why else do you think they are put in quarantine?
All staff wear PPE including face masks and gowns, even cabin crew.

[Clare Prop]

Apparently the guy went to India to get married in January. People are allowed to leave provided they have a "compelling reason" and will be gone for three months or more so he hasn't done anything "wrong". The problem is this three month loophole. I believe this is why the number of Australians wanting to return has stayed pretty static..

I've said all along that putting infected people in the middle of a city in hotels is complete madness, as well as leaving people there when they test positive instead of putting them in a negative pressure room.

Time McGowan realises the feds aren't going to step up and uses the budget surplus to refurbish some abandoned mining camps with nice big sealed runways. The hundreds of millions of dollars lost by businesses here, including mine, would have paid for it and the FIFO wages many many times over. The excuse about being away from medical facilities doesn't make sense when there are two PC24s parked outside RFDS.

[WingNut60]

Apparently the guy went to India to get married in January. People are allowed to leave provided they have a "compelling reason" and will be gone for three months or more so he hasn't done anything "wrong". The problem is this three month loophole. I believe this is why the number of Australians wanting to return has stayed pretty static..

I've said all along that putting infected people in the middle of a city in hotels is complete madness, as well as leaving people there when they test positive instead of putting them in a negative pressure room.

Time McGowan realises the feds aren't going to step up and uses the budget surplus to refurbish some abandoned mining camps with nice big sealed runways. The hundreds of millions of dollars lost by businesses here, including mine, would have paid for it and the FIFO wages many many times over. The excuse about being away from medical facilities doesn't make sense when there are two PC24s parked outside RFDS.

Obfuscation from all quarters.
Dutton says "Curtin & Xmas Island are not fit for purpose". In what way are they not fit for purpose?
I suspect that the problem would just be the need to spend money.
Xmas Island was going to need $400 million spent on it which made it "totally unsuitable for immigration purposes" .... until they needed it as a staging post for deporting bikie boofheads.
And suddenly it was quite acceptable.

But which "dis-used W.A. mining camp" did you have in mind? I can't think of any, off hand.

[ExtraShot]

We don’t need to use abandoned mining camps. Also, Military facilities are deemed unsuitable due to their dormitory style accommodation... shared bathrooms, mess facilities, plus, 14 days confined to something smaller than a modern jail cell wouldn’t last long before people had human rights lawyers up the wazoo... (asylum seekers can wander around facilities fairly freely, so it’s not the same- and no I don’t think 14 days confined to a standard hotel room is much better).

It would have to be $50-100 million for a brand new Howard Springs style facility within 100km of each capital city (or toowoomba or Avalon as previously proposed). 1 bedroom with en-suite and kitchen granny flat demountables... Space for an aeromed chopper to land on site will have people at capital city hospitals in short time. Could be completed in 3-4 months if we’re truly on a ‘war footing’.

There’s still a bus trip between the airport and hotel... just same bus a little further in this case.

Far less expensive than rolling lockdowns and the losses to businesses and individuals and the resulting loss to the overall potential of the economy, and a fraction of the cost of the kind of bonus payments thrown at pensioners and dole recipients over the last 12 months.

Some of These facilities could be mothballed relatively inexpensively after COVID Incase of another event in the future, the rest perhaps sold off if transportable demountables are used.

It should have been commenced 9-12 months ago. IMO, it Now it appears the feds are trying to ‘make do’ with what was originally a ‘temporary measure’ of hotel quarantine because they seem to think this will be over by the time any kind of above mentioned type facility is finished.

... oh and I in no way think McGowan and his pack of professional stuff ups are in any way absolved from using a hotel that was deemed not fit for purpose!

[Dannyboy39]

Or maybe it’s time to say that “**** happens” occasionally. This was a freak event and a measured response is required. Instead Australia (or WA) wants to clearly become a hermit nation.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Or maybe it’s time to say that “**** happens” occasionally. This was a freak event and a measured response is required. Instead Australia (or WA) wants to clearly become a hermit nation.

Was it a freak event? How many other travellers became unknowingly infected whilst in mandated hotel quarantine? The lockdown wouldn’t be needed if hotel quarantine was better - the AMA have been beating that drum for 12 months now - do the politicians listen?

[Icarus2001]

Again....when did we decide that complete eradication was the plan? A few cases here and there for a corona virus with a 98% survival rate.

What happened to flatten the curve?

[SOPS]

Again....when did we decide that complete eradication was the plan? A few cases here and there for a corona virus with a 98% survival rate.

What happened to flatten the curve?
I think when the politicians saw what happened OS. The ‘ curve getting flat’ was still killing a lot of people. Now, for Australia, its eradication at all costs.

[Chronic Snoozer]

I think when the politicians saw what happened OS. The ‘ curve getting flat’ was still killing a lot of people. Now, for Australia, its eradication at all costs.

So stop letting it leak out of hotel quarantine. Nobody cares who is responsible as long as its done properly and is tighter than a fish’s rrrrs. McGowan has done a bit of deflecting - ultimately it was and is a State responsibility accepted and done poorly. First the leak with the security guard now this one. I agree with him re travel overseas with a good reason only, but the buck still stops with WA Health. The numbers accepted into hotel quarantine from overseas arrivals is not why the virus leaked.

Mercure cluster timeline

January 31 – Perth goes into a five-day lockdown because of case 903 where a security guard at the Four Points Sheraton tests positive to COVID-19.
February 4 – Professor Tarun Weeramanthri provides initial advice and calls for an immediate independent expert review of airflow and ventilation in all WA quarantine hotels.
February 24 – Independent reviewers, Glossop Consultancy, recommend to the government that the Four Points be retained until it could be replaced by the Adnate Hotel in the quarantine system.
March 10 – Initial ventilation review completed.
March 31 – Final ventilation report provided to WA Health.
April 3 – A 54-year-old Victorian man arrives in Perth from China and starts hotel quarantine at the Mecure Hotel.
April 8 – Summary reports on hotel ventilation provided to Chief Health Officer Andy Robertson which states the Mercure is the most at-risk hotel and the Four Points and Novotel Langley are also high risk.
April 10 – an Australian man returns from India and starts quarantining at the Mercure with his new wife after going overseas for his own wedding.
April 13 – The man who came back from India tests positive to the virus.
April 15 – The wife of the man who came back from India tests positive.
April 16 – Premier Mark McGowan and Health Minister Roger Cook receive advice from the CHO on ventilation saying risks at the three high-risk hotels could be mitigated by closing them or bringing in other measures. Dr Robertson suggests transitioning the Mercure to taking low-risk international arrivals such as seasonal workers from countries with no COVID-19. A nurse and her daughter, staying at the Mercure since April 3 after returning from the United Kingdom, in quarantine in a room across from the couple who came back from India test positive to the virus.
April 17 – The Victorian man, who was in an immediate adjacent room to the positive cases, is let out of quarantine after testing negative for the virus and not showing any symptoms. He is a tourist in Perth and visits several cafes, restaurants and sightseeing locations, while staying at St Catherine’s on Park in Crawley.
April 21 – Genomic sequencing reveals the UK family cases are linked to the returned couple from India who are in a neighbouring room and tested positive for the virus a few days after going into quarantine on April 10. The government tells 16 other people who were staying on the same floor to self-isolate until they return a negative test. Two other people who were guests in adjacent rooms to the positive cases told to isolate for two weeks. Victorian man flies home to Melbourne on QF-778 but is immediately told to go into isolation by health authorities.
April 23 – The Victorian man returns a positive test for COVID-19 as does a woman from Kardinya he stayed with on April 17. Mr McGowan announces a three-day lockdown from midnight.
April 24 – A West Australian man in his 40s becomes the second community case in connection to the Victorian man after dining at the same restaurant on April 18.
April 25 – No new cases of COVID-19 are recorded in WA in the community.
April 26 – Mr McGowan announces Perth will come out of lockdown at 12.01am on Tuesday but there will be four days of interim restrictions before the government reassesses the situation.

[ScepticalOptomist]

I think when the politicians saw what happened OS. The ‘ curve getting flat’ was still killing a lot of people. Now, for Australia, its eradication at all costs.

Thats rubbish, the curves OS weren’t being flattened at all, they were rapidly rising.

Our politicians shat themselves at what may happen knowing that their hospital system was way below par. As usual a massive over reaction based on fear alone.

[Tucknroll]

The politicians are following the best guidance from medical professionals. Doctors aren’t telling us how to fly planes, maybe we should stick to our wheelhouses. Let’s let the people who understand the intricacies of a global viral pandemic advise our nation’s leaders. Australia is the envy of the world for a reason.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Doctors aren’t telling us how to fly planes, No, accountants and lawyers do.

[Icarus2001]

The politicians are following the best guidance from medical professionals.

If that is the case why is every state and territory doing things differently? The variation is politics, pure and simple.

[601]

If that is the case why is every state and territory doing things differently? The variation is politics, pure and simple.

There is a lot of variation on the verbal advice given in interviews by the State CMOs.
Australia's failing is that the State Premiers want to keep their own little empires instead of handing all of the CMO's responsibilities to the Federal COM so we could have a country wide policy.
In Qld, at present, the CMO has more authority than the Premier.

[ScepticalOptomist]

The politicians are following the best guidance from medical professionals. Doctors aren’t telling us how to fly planes, maybe we should stick to our wheelhouses. Let’s let the people who understand the intricacies of a global viral pandemic advise our nation’s leaders. Australia is the envy of the world for a reason.

And it’s people who believe this that are holding the country back.

What a load of rubbish. It’s like taking aviation advice from the “experts” you hear from in the paper.

If you had any insight into our CHOs you wouldn’t sleep at night. They’re not in the position because of great medical skills or knowledge!

[SHVC]

Why are we not considering this? Australia is such a 3rd world country at the moment.

Germany set to abolish quarantine for travellers

Germany will move to abolish self-isolation requirements for travellers who have been fully vaccinated or who have already contracted COVID-19.
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/520fa5c6f47edbdacd0c5b6903da7fe8?width=650 (https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/520fa5c6f47edbdacd0c5b6903da7fe8)German Chancellor Angela Merkel addresses a press conference. Picture: AFP.The government’s draft paper would allow millions of Germans to holiday in hundreds of countries over the European summer.

Currently travellers are required to undertake ten days of home quarantine after they return from “high risk” areas including France, Italy and the US.

The new freedoms would not apply to travellers returning from 11 areas with high case numbers of the new variants including India, Brazil, South Africa and the Moselle region of France, which borders Germany.

Travellers would also be required to prove they tested positive for the disease more than a month earlier and recovered.

[dysslexicgod]

svhc: Why are we not considering this? Australia is such a 3rd world country at the moment.

Germany set to abolish quarantine for travellers

Germany will move to abolish self-isolation requirements for travellers who have been fully vaccinated or who have already contracted COVID-19.

Because perfect forgeries of the vaccination and medical certificates required by BorderForce will be available in Third world countries within hours of such a rash decision.

Don't you understand that the reason ScoMo won't let Australians leave the country is to avoid the charge of hypocrisy when he prohibited foreign arrivals?

Do you really want Australia to be swamped with Covid19 refugees?

....or are you just a pilot pining for their lost career?

[Foxxster]

svhc:

Because perfect forgeries of the vaccination and medical certificates required by BorderForce will be available in Third world countries within hours of such a rash decision.

Don't you understand that the reason ScoMo won't let Australians leave the country is to avoid the charge of hypocrisy when he prohibited foreign arrivals?

Do you really want Australia to be swamped with Covid19 refugees?

....or are you just a pilot pining for their lost career?


talking about perfect forgeries.. seems there might have been some presented by passengers on this flight. Regardless, this is exactly why ALL flights from India should have been stopped days ago. I understand federal cabinet are meeting today to decide on this matter. They better bloody do it. Because people are getting way beyond fed up with lockdowns . And the percentage of infected passengers from India is way, way beyond normal numbers. Darwin had 17 in day as did NSW. Ban the flights today.

hotel quarantine can cope, we have had around 500,000 people return to Australia and go through the system over the last year. Yes there have been outbreaks but due to incompetence or people breaking the rules. This could happen with any form of dedicated quarantine camps.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9512239/Fifty-two-passengers-one-flight-Delhi-Hong-Kong-test-positive-Covid-19-landing.html

[Tucknroll]

And it’s people who believe this that are holding the country back.

What a load of rubbish. It’s like taking aviation advice from the “experts” you hear from in the paper.

If you had any insight into our CHOs you wouldn’t sleep at night. They’re not in the position because of great medical skills or knowledge!

I’ve read the bios, I’ve heard their advice. It all sounds pretty reasonable. The reason that there is variation state to state is because the resources and demographics of each state vary wildly.

So, scepticaloptimist you seem to be sharing some really great insights into the management of COVID-19. Care to give us a quick run down of your qualifications to do so? Where did you study medicine and virology? Or your MPH? Or are you one of these great people who have ‘educated themselves’ and now know more in one years’ worth of light internet reading than the world’s leading authorities on the subject?

[kiwi grey]

We don’t need to use abandoned mining camps. Also, Military facilities are deemed unsuitable due to their dormitory style accommodation... shared bathrooms, mess facilities, plus, 14 days confined to something smaller than a modern jail cell wouldn’t last long before people had human rights lawyers up the wazoo... (asylum seekers can wander around facilities fairly freely, so it’s not the same- and no I don’t think 14 days confined to a standard hotel room is much better).

It would have to be $50-100 million for a brand new Howard Springs style facility within 100km of each capital city (or toowoomba or Avalon as previously proposed). 1 bedroom with en-suite and kitchen granny flat demountables... Space for an aeromed chopper to land on site will have people at capital city hospitals in short time.

Could be completed in 3-4 months if we’re truly on a ‘war footing’.

I doubt that very much.
You are talking about building a small township for a thousand or more transients* in quarantine, plus permanent staff.
Even assuming the Commonwealth decided to simply ignore any requirement for planning permissions, consultations with stakeholders, environmental impact statement, etc - and I think that would be political suicide - you still have to manage the infrastructure issues: roading, electricity, potable water and sewage treatment & disposal. Roading is almost trivial.
The Commonwealth will have to

negotiate with a lines company to add a point load of some megawatts into a network probably designed to handle a farm every kilometre or so, and then get them to design and build it.
find a source of potable water, negotiate a supply agreement with the owner and design & build a pipeline to your camp site, probably build an on-site reservoir to give a surge/emergency/firefighting supply too or design and build a complete water supply and treatment system.
conceptualise, then design and build, a sewage/wastewater treatment plant and outfall.

These are not off-the-shelf purchases, they take months and months and gobs of money to do.
And if the Commonwealth were to go through the normal planning processes, add at least another three to six months.

Sorry, this is at least a twelve to eighteen months' project.

* If you are only going to take one planeload a week - A330 size, empty middle seats, say 150 SOB - and working on a sixteen day cycle (reception day, fourteen days quarantine, cleaning day) - you are going to need four hundred to four hundred and fifty beds. A thousand beds only gets you two flights a week, occasionally three. Daily flights, you're looking at two to two and a half thousand beds.

[Dannyboy39]

svhc:

Because perfect forgeries of the vaccination and medical certificates required by BorderForce will be available in Third world countries within hours of such a rash decision.

Don't you understand that the reason ScoMo won't let Australians leave the country is to avoid the charge of hypocrisy when he prohibited foreign arrivals?

Do you really want Australia to be swamped with Covid19 refugees?

....or are you just a pilot pining for their lost career?
You cannot tarnish everyone with the same brush. Evidence is becoming clearer and clearer every day:

1. The western vaccines provide strong protection against disease. They provide almost perfect protection against severe disease and death.
2. There is strong evidence that transmission is greatly reduced. And with less Covid doing the rounds, even more difficult to find someone with it.
3. They are still not accepting arrivals from high risk countries.
4. By mid Northern Hemisphere summer, the vast majority of western countries will hit herd immunity.

And to the last line, I say again: I’m amazed by the number of people on this forum who want to diminish their own industry or happy to take the money despite no one down the back paying your wages.

[Global Aviator]

* If you are only going to take one planeload a week - A330 size, empty middle seats, say 150 SOB - and working on a sixteen day cycle (reception day, fourteen days quarantine, cleaning day) - you are going to need four hundred to four hundred and fifty beds. A thousand beds only gets you two flights a week, occasionally three. Daily flights, you're looking at two to two and a half thousand beds.

So Howard Springs!

[Keg]

Because people are getting way beyond fed up with lockdowns .

Lockdown? What’s that? Haven’t had a city wide one let a state wide one in NSW since April/ May last year. 230K people on the northern beaches for a couple of weeks due a super spreader event just prior to Christmas is the extent of it. For those outside the northern beaches, life has been pretty normal since May last year.

I always found it interesting when talking to the staff at the hotel in Perth in early December who were under the impression that Sydney/ NSW/ ‘over east’ was in permanent form of lockdowns and harsh restrictions. They got a shock when I told them life was as normal for us as it was for them.... we just didn’t have an idiot Premier slamming the gate shut every time someone had a sniffle.

[Dannyboy39]

* If you are only going to take one planeload a week - A330 size, empty middle seats, say 150 SOB - and working on a sixteen day cycle (reception day, fourteen days quarantine, cleaning day) - you are going to need four hundred to four hundred and fifty beds. A thousand beds only gets you two flights a week, occasionally three. Daily flights, you're looking at two to two and a half thousand beds.

So Howard Springs!
Nof to berate scientists at all, but no scientist in any other country that I know of is talking about military camp quarantine rather than hotel quarantine. People are actually allowed to disagree with scientists - heck, disagreeing with each other is like a sport for them. They are going to go with the most conservative option because otherwise they are perceived to be liable.

[WingNut60]

* If you are only going to take one planeload a week - A330 size, empty middle seats, say 150 SOB - and working on a sixteen day cycle (reception day, fourteen days quarantine, cleaning day) - you are going to need four hundred to four hundred and fifty beds. A thousand beds only gets you two flights a week, occasionally three. Daily flights, you're looking at two to two and a half thousand beds.

So Howard Springs!
Two and a half thousand beds is what Perth alone would need.
Plus some (??) accomodation for staff.

[StudentInDebt]

Lockdown? What’s that? Haven’t had a city wide one let a state wide one in NSW since April/ May last year. 230K people on the northern beaches for a couple of weeks due a super spreader event just prior to Christmas is the extent of it. For those outside the northern beaches, life has been pretty normal since May last year.

I always found it interesting when talking to the staff at the hotel in Perth in early December who were under the impression that Sydney/ NSW/ ‘over east’ was in permanent form of lockdowns and harsh restrictions. They got a shock when I told them life was as normal for us as it was for them.... we just didn’t have an idiot Premier slamming the gate shut every time someone had a sniffle.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/restrictions-eased-time-for-christmas well that all sounds pretty normal and just like things were in WA at the time....

[WingNut60]

Lockdown? What’s that? Haven’t had a city wide one let a state wide one in NSW since April/ May last year. 230K people on the northern beaches for a couple of weeks due a super spreader event just prior to Christmas is the extent of it. For those outside the northern beaches, life has been pretty normal since May last year.

I always found it interesting when talking to the staff at the hotel in Perth in early December who were under the impression that Sydney/ NSW/ ‘over east’ was in permanent form of lockdowns and harsh restrictions. They got a shock when I told them life was as normal for us as it was for them.... we just didn’t have an idiot Premier slamming the gate shut every time someone had a sniffle.
And yet NSW businesses are complaining vehemently about the year-long and continuing impact on their turn-over.
And every TV newsclip shows Sydney siders walking around masked.

Why is that then? Something doesn't add up.

[Foxxster]

Lockdown? What’s that? Haven’t had a city wide one let a state wide one in NSW since April/ May last year. 230K people on the northern beaches for a couple of weeks due a super spreader event just prior to Christmas is the extent of it. For those outside the northern beaches, life has been pretty normal since May last year.

I always found it interesting when talking to the staff at the hotel in Perth in early December who were under the impression that Sydney/ NSW/ ‘over east’ was in permanent form of lockdowns and harsh restrictions. They got a shock when I told them life was as normal for us as it was for them.... we just didn’t have an idiot Premier slamming the gate shut every time someone had a sniffle.

just had one in WA. Have been many in Queensland. Victoria had god knows how many last year especially. They affect not only people in those states but the whole country. People can’t make holiday plans or have their plans ruined at the last minute. Plus the economic cost.

[WingNut60]

just had one in WA. Have been many in Queensland. Victoria had god knows how many last year especially. They affect not only people in those states but the whole country. People can’t make holiday plans or have their plans ruined at the last minute. Plus the economic cost.
So, since NSW has weathered the storm so well why has Beryl got her hand out for WA's GST share?

[dr dre]

All direct flights from India to Australia suspended for 2.5 weeks. With places like Singapore and the ME also suspending flights from India this effectively cuts off India from Australia:

All flights to India paused, PM announces - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-27/scott-morrison-pause-flights-india-covid-outbreak/100098322)

[ExtraShot]

I doubt that very much.
You are talking about building a small township for a thousand or more transients* in quarantine, plus permanent staff.
Even assuming the Commonwealth decided to simply ignore any requirement for planning permissions, consultations with stakeholders, environmental impact statement, etc - and I think that would be political suicide - you still have to manage the infrastructure issues: roading, electricity, potable water and sewage treatment & disposal. Roading is almost trivial.
The Commonwealth will have to

negotiate with a lines company to add a point load of some megawatts into a network probably designed to handle a farm every kilometre or so, and then get them to design and build it.
find a source of potable water, negotiate a supply agreement with the owner and design & build a pipeline to your camp site, probably build an on-site reservoir to give a surge/emergency/firefighting supply too or design and build a complete water supply and treatment system.
conceptualise, then design and build, a sewage/wastewater treatment plant and outfall.

These are not off-the-shelf purchases, they take months and months and gobs of money to do.
And if the Commonwealth were to go through the normal planning processes, add at least another three to six months.

Sorry, this is at least a twelve to eighteen months' project.

* If you are only going to take one planeload a week - A330 size, empty middle seats, say 150 SOB - and working on a sixteen day cycle (reception day, fourteen days quarantine, cleaning day) - you are going to need four hundred to four hundred and fifty beds. A thousand beds only gets you two flights a week, occasionally three. Daily flights, you're looking at two to two and a half thousand beds.



12-18 months? John Wagner does not agree;

Wagner Corporation chairman John Wagner said the first 500 beds could be built in as little as five to six weeks and his family-owned firm has put a “comprehensive and commonsense” proposal on the table which would provide a safe alternative to hotel quarantine

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/new-facility-proposed-for-toowoomba-safer-than-hotel-quarantine-20210204-p56zn3.html

this bloke built an airport, in Australia, in spite of all our bureaucratic and regulatory madness, in record time. It CAN be done, if there’s a will to do it.

[blubak]

The politicians are following the best guidance from medical professionals. Doctors aren’t telling us how to fly planes, maybe we should stick to our wheelhouses. Let’s let the people who understand the intricacies of a global viral pandemic advise our nation’s leaders. Australia is the envy of the world for a reason.
I tend to agree with your comments,the doctors & cho's are not fools.
Pilots(of which im not 1) have studied long & hard & do a great job & of course now with the industry running on a day to day basis they are becoming frustrated at ever changing rules etc however if the country was opened up & this spread like wildfire(look at india),we could end up looking to the very people who are being criticised for a quick answer & very likely there wont be one.
I heard a sport commentator the other day make a statement about umpires & the constant criticism of them,he said 'lets have a footy game without umpires & see how that goes'!

[ScepticalOptomist]

I’ve read the bios, I’ve heard their advice. It all sounds pretty reasonable. The reason that there is variation state to state is because the resources and demographics of each state vary wildly.

So, scepticaloptimist you seem to be sharing some really great insights into the management of COVID-19. Care to give us a quick run down of your qualifications to do so? Where did you study medicine and virology? Or your MPH? Or are you one of these great people who have ‘educated themselves’ and now know more in one years’ worth of light internet reading than the world’s leading authorities on the subject?

Nope, wasn’t sharing insights into the management at all. My qualifications aren’t relevant, nor did I form any opinions based on light reading.

The actual experts in the field of disease management are however close friends, and know most of the CHOs personally. It’s their anecdotes and tales that prompted my comments.

And I repeat, if you heard the stories, you wouldn’t be trotting out the line you did about “following best medical guidance” - which was what I was responding to.

[Tucknroll]

Go on then, tell us the stories.

[dysslexicgod]

The modeling of the trajectory of the Indian pandemic must be frightening. That is why the flights are cancelled.

[Dannyboy39]

But if you’re a cricketer or celebrity, I’m sure Iwillbealrightjack...

[ScepticalOptomist]

Go on then, tell us the stories.

Mate, if I knew you, over a quiet ale I’d love to!

[hoss58]

12-18 months? John Wagner does not agree;



https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/new-facility-proposed-for-toowoomba-safer-than-hotel-quarantine-20210204-p56zn3.html

this bloke built an airport, in Australia, in spite of all our bureaucratic and regulatory madness, in record time. It CAN be done, if there’s a will to do it.

Excellent point ExtraShot and to the best of my knowledge the government hasn't even had the decency to give him an answer one way or the other but happy to be corrected on this.

Cheers Hoss58

[Ladloy]

The modeling of the trajectory of the Indian pandemic must be frightening. That is why the flights are cancelled.
Funnily enough the trajectory and deaths were very similar in the US but we never cut flights off from there.

[patty50]

Funnily enough the trajectory and deaths were very similar in the US but we never cut flights off from there.

Trajectory in the US was never as bad. India’s daily caseload has gone 6x in a month and no sign of slowing down. 1.6m tests yesterday and 360k cases.
That’s ignoring the fact that India’s numbers would massively underestimate the true extent of the pandemic.

[Ladloy]

Trajectory in the US was never as bad. India’s daily caseload has gone 6x in a month and no sign of slowing down. 1.6m tests yesterday and 360k cases.
That’s ignoring the fact that India’s numbers would massively underestimate the true extent of the pandemic.
It was that bad and the UK was even worse. If you go buy cases and deaths per million India is not even close. Not to mention this (https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/US-covid-deaths-may-be-underestimated-36-percent).
Per capita is more important when talking about this. If you were to talk down the street what are the chances of someone having it. Peak US and UK you'd still have a better chance of getting COVID there than India currently.

[jrfsp]

I think the under reporting in India (and among other developing countries) far exceeds places like the USA and UK however.

[601]

Excellent point ExtraShot and to the best of my knowledge the government hasn't even had the decency to give him an answer one way or the other but happy to be corrected on this.
Last was that Qld Govt put the proposal to the Feds with no supporting documentation and are now crying that they have not had an answer.

[SHVC]

Well here we go again! 2 travelers from PNG were able to mingle with geeen zone passengers, QLD said the risk was low as they tested negative then wholla all of a sudden one of the two test positive. These travelers were every where in BBN terminal. Snap lock down 3 days will fix it tho.

[empacher48]

Well here we go again! 2 travelers from PNG were able to mingle with geeen zone passengers, QLD said the risk was low as they tested negative then wholla all of a sudden one of the two test positive. These travelers were every where in BBN terminal. Snap lock down 3 days will fix it tho.

Well that is one way to kill off any demand in Trans-Tasman flying as there were three green zone flights to NZ affected by that event.

A lot of kiwis won’t be travelling purely because they see things like this happening and instantly assume the whole of Australia is just full of incompetents. (Even when their own government are just as incompetent).

[jrfsp]

I wouldnt be surprised if they direct people on the two NZ bound flights into two weeks of isolation - like the recent case on the PER-MEL flight. What a f*@k-up.

[Troo believer]

The Tasman bubble needs to be terminated immediately in order to resolve the stark difference in aircrew quarantine rules. If this isn’t a large hole in the cheese then I don’t know what is. 2 days quarantine for New Zealand crew. 14 days for Australian crew. What a fu*ing joke. What’s 2 days and a test going to do when you could be infected but not infectious. It’s generally recognised for the virus to manifest itself takes about 5 days on average. Either New Zealand or Australia is out on a limb here. The Tasman bubble is far from secure. Shut it down until it’s fixed. How the hell was this over looked reeks of incompetence or most probably, political indifference. Any Australian travelling to New Zealand could be exposed easily via lose quarantine rules.

It’s interesting that our Kiwi colleagues haven’t refuted the facts. The ball is in your court bros.

[ScepticalOptomist]

In other travel industries:


In a letter to industry leaders Wednesday night, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said cruises could resume sailing from U.S. ports in mid-July.

The CDC will require that ships guarantee that at least 98% of crew and 95% of passengers are fully vaccinated. This rule is in keeping with decisions already made by many other countries to require proof of vaccination in order for cruise ships to operate again.

[empacher48]

The Tasman bubble needs to be terminated immediately in order to resolve the stark difference in aircrew quarantine rules. If this isn’t a large hole in the cheese then I don’t know what is. 2 days quarantine for New Zealand crew. 14 days for Australian crew. What a fu*ing joke. What’s 2 days and a test going to do when you could be infected but not infectious. It’s generally recognised for the virus to manifest itself takes about 5 days on average. Either New Zealand or Australia is out on a limb here. The Tasman bubble is far from secure. Shut it down until it’s fixed. How the hell was this over looked reeks of incompetence or most probably, political indifference. Any Australian travelling to New Zealand could be exposed easily via lose quarantine rules.

It’s interesting that our Kiwi colleagues haven’t refuted the facts. The ball is in your court bros.

If you take time to read the MoH Air Border Order which was updated this April, you’ll find that Aircrew who operate Red zone flights are not permitted to fly Green Zone flights at all and must be kept separate.

Under the rules in NZ, red zone crew may operate domestically in NZ only after a 72 hour stand down and a negative PCR test, just as it always has been since July 2020. However aircrew must also comply with Australian rules requiring red zone crew to have spent 14 days in NZ before operating a trans-Tasman green zone flight.

But hey, don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[Troo believer]

If you take time to read the MoH Air Border Order which was updated this April, you’ll find that Aircrew who operate Red zone flights are not permitted to fly Green Zone flights at all and must be kept separate.

Under the rules in NZ, red zone crew may operate domestically in NZ only after a 72 hour stand down and a negative PCR test, just as it always has been since July 2020. However aircrew must also comply with Australian rules requiring red zone crew to have spent 14 days in NZ before operating a trans-Tasman green zone flight.

But hey, don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story.

But you yourself just illustrated the difference. Perhaps you should read the Australian equivalent rules that don’t include bubble flying.

You fly over to the USA and the rule upon return is a minimum of 2 days quarantine plus a negative test. Is that correct? After those two requirements are completed what then? Free to move about in the community. You know things like shopping, going to the rugby, off to the pub, concert perhaps. All the pastimes and freedoms that anyone else has. Is that correct? What I’m talking about has nothing to do with red or green flights. It’s what happens outside the Tasman rule set that bothers me. I’ve read all the documents. Tell me where I’m wrong please if you can.
Enlighten us.

[empacher48]

Butt you yourself just illustrated the difference. Perhaps you should read the Australian equivalent rules that don’t include bubble flying.


I haven't read the Australian equivalent and it does not interest me. If the Australian politicians haven't set up special cases for Australian flight crew operating the Tasman Bubble, then that is an issue for flight crew in Australia to take up with their politicians.

You fly over to the USA and the rule upon return is a minimum of 2 days quarantine plus a negative test. Is that correct? After those two requirements are completed what then? Free to move about in the community. You know things like shopping, going to the rugby, off to the pub, concert perhaps. All the pastimes and freedoms that anyone else has. Is that correct?

Yes as long as they have complied with the Aircrew Border order in regard to the conduct in other countries. Failure to comply with those requirements mean a 14 day stay in MIQ. Flight crew only require the one negative test, cabin crew are required to be tested every 7 days since their first red zone flight conducted after October 13, 2020. Before that date it was every 14 days.

As I mentioned above, I haven't read the Australian rules, how often do red zone cabin crew in Australia have to be tested once they have arrived back into Australia?

What I’m talking about has nothing to do with red or green flights. It’s what happens outside the Tasman rule set that bothers me. I’ve read all the documents. Tell me where I’m wrong please if you can.
Enlighten us.

As of 1st May 2021 all frontline border or MIQ workers employed by or under contract to the NZ government must be vaccinated. If you choose not to be vaccinated then you will be re-deployed into roles that mean you will never see a member of the public while at work. Those that are contractors will not have their contracts extended beyond the 1st of May.

Messaging is going to the airlines that by the time the NZ green zone extends to the Cook Islands and Niue this month the only aircrew that should be operating internationally from NZ will be vaccinated crew. This is in anticipation of further extending of the Green Zone to other Pacific Island nations and selected Asian destinations towards the middle of 2021, once vaccination groups 1, 2 and 3 are complete.

How the Australian Government wants to play this bubble is up to the Australian Government, but once you are in a travel bubble you are at the mercy of the way the other countries operate themselves.

[Troo believer]

.

How the Australian Government wants to play this bubble is up to the Australian Government, but once you are in a travel bubble you are at the mercy of the way the other countries operate themselves.[/QUOTE]

That’s an arrogant position coming from someone who can’t be bothered reading our rules yet I have read yours. The bubble is a partnership mate. Don’t worry this matter has the attention of our governments both federal and state. I for one am comfortable with how NZ treats it’s aircrew. That is, with respect and trust. It’s the Australian Government and to a lesser degree the State Governments that I have issue with.
Take care. Stay safe and don’t cough.

[jrfsp]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-30/air-new-zealand-passenger-skips-quarantine-lands-in-perth/100108244

Another breach.....very low risk from the cook islands luckily but how have they not got these systems worked out

[josephfeatherweight]

A lot of kiwis won’t be travelling purely because they see things like this happening and instantly assume the whole of Australia is just full of incompetents.
We seem to be doing our utmost best to solidify that concept...

[Troo believer]

The same for Australians. They need some pilots to fix it up. 😀

“Passenger Karen Leech said she had been told by another passenger that there was a man on the flight who had recently been in Rarotonga but had not quarantined in New Zealand as required.”

"He managed to somehow get onto the flight from Auckland to Perth," she said.

So who dropped the ball here? Was it Australia or New Zealand?

[SHVC]

WA has announced two positive C-19 test. Why is there a short sharp snap lock down for 3 days announced immediately? Whats changed behind the scenes is he worried WA people might actually not like him anymore

[Chronic Snoozer]

WA has announced two positive C-19 test. Why is there a short sharp snap lock down for 3 days announced immediately? Whats changed behind the scenes is he worried WA people might actually not like him anymore

It’s three positive tests I believe. The reason a lockdown was not immediately ordered is because partial restrictions were already in place when the guard was infectious in the community reducing the risk of transmission somewhat.

[WingNut60]

It’s three positive tests I believe. The reason a lockdown was not immediately ordered is because partial restrictions were already in place when the guard was infectious in the community reducing the risk of transmission somewhat.
..................and there's a Western Derby AFL game scheduled tomorrow.

[Chronic Snoozer]

..................and there's a Western Derby AFL game scheduled tomorrow.

Yeah, that too. Any lockdown won't come into force until after full time. :rolleyes:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

This morning's radio 2GB (SY) announcing that the DIRECT flights between PER - AUK cancelled for the time being.

And I DO hope to be going to the WA Derby at Perth's Optus Oval this arvo.....Wearing a mask of course....

Further announcements by WA Gummint to be made later this morning.....We shall see what we shall see...

[Angle of Attack]

But Scomo and Dutton said hotel quarantine is 99.99% effective? Oh yeah that’s right 99% plus are not infected with COVID to start with so it’s a free 99% before they even start. The AMA was saying the escapes are now approaching 1 in 100 when you do the stats on actual positive cases compared to leaks. I still believe the 2 year rule, these muppet politicians take 2 years to actually fix problems properly, both State and Federal, they have 11 months to go....

[Angle of Attack]

And I’m loving McGowan now feeling the pressure, it’s very easy to throw stones at other States but far different when you actually have to do something. Statistics speak louder than words and it’s now obvious that WA hotel quarantine is the worst in the country, they hardly take anyone compared to other states yet they leak like a submarine with fly screens. If McGowan was true to his word he would lock down again, but I think he is finding it a bit harder politically when the shoe is on the other foot. What are you waiting for? destroy the virus lock it down premier! Lol...That’s what you were lecturing every other state with last year?

[Green.Dot]

Yeah stop playing “whack-a-mole” McClown.

His flog status has reached epic levels.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Yeah Well......Just held a Press Conference....and announced......NO AUDIENCE ATTENDANCE at the WA DERBY this arvo..!!

Boo - Hoo Some WA Voters will NOT like this I reckon. But then, is it 'better' to inconvenience some 45,000 fans , rather then the 'Thousands' affected by a lockdown..??..

So, there is NO "LOCKDOWN" for the Perth / Peel Region.....BUT.....NO Footy Audience....

(Blamed on the 'crush' of people getting to / from the game on trains busses etc and the 'walking crush' at the game entries / exits etc)

[blubak]

And I’m loving McGowan now feeling the pressure, it’s very easy to throw stones at other States but far different when you actually have to do something. Statistics speak louder than words and it’s now obvious that WA hotel quarantine is the worst in the country, they hardly take anyone compared to other states yet they leak like a submarine with fly screens. If McGowan was true to his word he would lock down again, but I think he is finding it a bit harder politically when the shoe is on the other foot. What are you waiting for? destroy the virus lock it down premier! Lol...That’s what you were lecturing every other state with last year?
You could see this coming,it was just a matter of when.
Mismanagement certainly caused what happened in victoria but when you continually bleat how good you are,1 day the tide will turn against you & now it has happened.
He has decided there will be no crowds at the footy today in perth but there are no new cases today.
Is this his way of saying our hotels are high risk but we will divert attention away from that by putting the public focus on a footy match.
I guess he will also try & blame the feds again & not without cause as all the feds do is stand back & play politics whilst telling us what a great job they are doing a la the vaccination program.

[WingNut60]

........they hardly take anyone compared to other states ...........

Can't comment on the rest of your argument but I believe that this part of it is simply not correct.
It is a common claim on this thread but is does not accord at all with the counter-claim.

WA claims that, on a per capita basis, it has taken MORE than any of the other states.
Either someone is telling porkies or someone thinks that "per capita" is not relevant and only raw numbers matter.

I believe that it is relevant.
I think that ability to accept returnees needs to be proportionate to availability of facilities and that availability of facilities is probably proportionate to population.
Unless someone has evidence to the contrary then I think that is exactly what WA has done + some.

[SandyPalms]

How many WA is taking is irrelevant. It's the fact that the WA system keeps leaking that matters. He is failing. And judging by the calls on talkback radio after last weekend, the public are waking up.

[Fonz121]

How many WA is taking is irrelevant. It's the fact that the WA system keeps leaking that matters. He is failing. And judging by the calls on talkback radio after last weekend, the public are waking up.

Listening to a bunch of conservative boomers is hardly the litmus test needed to form any kind of public opinion consensus on WA’s Covid policies.

[turbantime]

Confirmed once again that the general public can access these quarantine hotels for events. Wth is going on over there in WA???

[WingNut60]

How many WA is taking is irrelevant.

Then would you mind telling your mates to stop using it as part of your argument.

[WingNut60]

Confirmed once again that the general public can access these quarantine hotels for events. Wth is going on over there in WA???
More details please. Don't know anything about that.
But importantly, has it lead to any outbreaks?

[SandyPalms]

Then would you mind telling your mates to stop using it as part of your argument.

Get knotted DH, they are not my mates, nor is it my argument.

[SandyPalms]

Listening to a bunch of conservative boomers is hardly the litmus test needed to form any kind of public opinion consensus on WA’s Covid policies.

The point being that for the last 12 months, the comments had been largely supportive. That has changed.

[turbantime]

More details please. Don't know anything about that.
But importantly, has it lead to any outbreaks?
One can go to high tea at the pan pacific hotel, or host a wedding/formal at another quarantine hotel.
No outbreak yet but where is the risk management around that? Even the AMA advised against general public access to quarantine hotels. No other state does this, yet another hole in the cheese IMO.

[WingNut60]

Get knotted DH, they are not my mates, nor is it my argument.
That it has been trotted out repeatedly in the posts above and incessantly by Beryl, the Propaganda Queen, is most certainly relevant.
But then, if you're silly enough to swoon after her then you're capable of believing anything.

[WingNut60]

One can go to high tea at the pan pacific hotel, or host a wedding/formal at another quarantine hotel.
No outbreak yet but where is the risk management around that? Even the AMA advised against general public access to quarantine hotels. No other state does this, yet another hole in the cheese IMO.
Yes, dual-use would certainly seem to pose an additional risk, whether problems have arisen from it or not.
The alternative being that quarantine hotels not be accessible for any other non-quarantine related purposes, not just restricted with regard grand events.
Are you sure that's what's happening in all other states?

[SOPS]

Great news . We have a Pakistani sailer on the run in QLD. We have his Syrian crew mates asking for asylum. More pressure on the HQ service, less Australians to be allowed home.

[an.other]

Repatriate Australians from Covid19 hotspots around the world including Third world countries with no possibility of pre departure quarantine and/or dodgy screening or testing. A non - zero percentage will be infected.

Use airliners for repatriation. Cram infected and non infected people and crews in an aluminium tube for 20+ hours.

On arrival, assume none of the crews and passengers are infected with Covid19.

Transport passengers, assumed to be uninfected mind you, to central city hotels that are not purpose built quarantine facilities and inform them they must stay there for 14 days.

Tend to the passengers needs - food, cleaning, laundry, etc. in the hotels using normal hotel staff and procedures - the staff go home to their families every night.

What could possibly go wrong?

That's literally your right as an Australian.

This is the Feds essentially admitting they can't deliver the most basic of rights to citizens, which is unique in the world.

I'm in a really unusual position, having visited Europe for work during the pandemic, visiting London and Berlin. I hate to break it, but life in those places ain't so different, people seem to imagine zombies in the street or something, not so! In London you need to order food or drinks via an app at your table, which was mostly outside, in Berlin masks were being aggressively enforced and you must scan in at bars. I was issued with N95 masks to use and constantly used alcohol hand cleaner.

Coming back was really stressful, but quarantine was fine, I brought a lot of disinfectant wipes with me to clean the room down and some fabric disinfectant spray for the bed, my biggest thing was not having enough coffee lol.

It was very confronting, watching people just getting on with their lives in Europe, compared to the cowering fear of people in hazmat suits here. I'm not sure which is the healthier state of mind.

[Australopithecus]

You have an intriguing question there about healthier state of mind. To which most would point to the healthier state of everything else.

[WingNut60]

......... I hate to break it, but life in those places ain't so different, people seem to imagine zombies in the street or something, not so!
It was very confronting, watching people just getting on with their lives in Europe, ............................
Did you visit any funerals while you were there? You might want to also factor in the 83,000 + who have died from Covid in Germany.

[Climb150]

Did you visit any funerals while you were there? You might want to also factor in the 83,000 + who have died from Covid in Germany.

So 0.1% of the population? Run and hide the zombies are coming

[StudentInDebt]

I'm in a really unusual position, having visited Europe for work during the pandemic, visiting London and Berlin. I hate to break it, but life in those places ain't so different, people seem to imagine zombies in the street or something, not so! In London you need to order food or drinks via an app at your table, which was mostly outside, in Berlin masks were being aggressively enforced and you must scan in at bars. I was issued with N95 masks to use and constantly used alcohol hand cleaner.Your view of life in Europe may have been coloured by the period of the pandemic measures you were present for. There has been a stay at home order in England for the last 5 months, restaurants could offer a click and collect service only with no alcohol permitted to be served. This was after their government lifted their restrictions over the summer of 2020, encouraged a “normal” life and sparked a second wave that gave them the highest death rate per capita in the world in January and brought their healthcare to the edge of collapse - the primary danger of COVID at the macro level. The lockdown measures in place from January reversed that and now the UK is on a good path to recovery thanks to their vaccine rollout.

[ScepticalOptomist]

So 0.1% of the population? Run and hide the zombies are coming

This has been the problem all along - people just see numbers with no context and allow themselves to be suckered in by fear mongering.

80,000 lives lost is sad for sure, but context is everything. I acknowledge CV has killed people in large numbers, I just don’t buy the mass fear campaign.

[Australopithecus]

This has been the problem all along - people just see numbers with no context and allow themselves to be suckered in by fear mongering.

80,000 lives lost is sad for sure, but context is everything. I acknowledge CV has killed people in large numbers, I just don’t buy the mass fear campaign.

But you do agree that so far only a small fraction of the population has been infected? And that the death rate is approximately 2%, and there are long term effects for perhaps 30% of the others? Extrapolate that out to a 100% infection incidence, who the hell is going to provide acute care for that many people, bury that many people and provide chronic care for that many people?

There was always going to be a race between the virus and the vaccine, and those countries that understood that have suffered fewer deaths and costs.

[Tucknroll]

This has been the problem all along - people just see numbers with no context and allow themselves to be suckered in by fear mongering.

80,000 lives lost is sad for sure, but context is everything. I acknowledge CV has killed people in large numbers, I just don’t buy the mass fear campaign.

A lot of this has to do with an individual’s propensity to defer to experts. Either you agree with the overwhelming professional consensus on an issue or you look for the few dissenters.

In the case of Covid, it’s a bit clearer because we have examples of countries who have gone against the professional advice (Sweden, US and more recently India) and those who have adopted the most conservative approaches (Australia and NZ). I know where I would prefer to be.

Australia has fared very well through this crisis. We are coming out with a strong economy, a healthy population and a health care system which retains capacity. Domestic life is almost entirely unaffected. No wonder most people are happy with the federal and state responses to Covid.

[Troo believer]

A lot of this has to do with an individual’s propensity to defer to experts. Either you agree with the overwhelming professional consensus on an issue or you look for the few dissenters.

In the case of Covid, it’s a bit clearer because we have examples of countries who have gone against the professional advice (Sweden, US and more recently India) and those who have adopted the most conservative approaches (Australia and NZ). I know where I would prefer to be.

Australia has fared very well through this crisis. We are coming out with a strong economy, a healthy population and a health care system which retains capacity. Domestic life is almost entirely unaffected. No wonder most people are happy with the federal and state responses to Covid.
Incorrect.
New Zealand are far less conservative than Australia when it comes to crew quarantine. Yes I’ll raise this again. After all this is a pilot forum so get over it. I’ll continue to bang on about significant differences in how quarantine procedures apply between the two countries.
Australia. 14 days no exceptions outside the Tasman bubble with a negative pcr test.
New Zealand no quarantine required except if flown in from the USA (2 days and negative pcr) Asia no quarantine required.

All Australian pilots should be outraged at the disparity. Whilst overseas both countries aircrew practice the same protocols so where is the science to back up the difference? There is none. Its heavy handed bureaucratic crap. All Aussie international pilots ffs write to your local state and federal members and make some noise.

[Tucknroll]

Incorrect.
New Zealand are far less conservative than Australia when it comes to crew quarantine. Yes I’ll raise this again. After all this is a pilot forum so get over it. I’ll continue to bang on about significant differences in how quarantine procedures apply between the two countries.
Australia. 14 days no exceptions outside the Tasman bubble with a negative pcr test.
New Zealand no quarantine required except if flown in from the USA (2 days and negative pcr) Asia no quarantine required.

All Australian pilots should be outraged at the disparity. Whilst overseas both countries aircrew practice the same protocols so where is the science to back up the difference? There is none. Its heavy handed bureaucratic crap. All Aussie international pilots ffs write to your local state and federal members and make some noise.

I’m not incorrect, you’re just not understanding what I’m saying. I’m talking about the treatment of Covid in the population as a whole. I’m not talking about crew quarantine. The affect of crew quarantine on borders is minimal. It’s an inconvenience to crew, that’s all. No one else cares.

[Troo believer]

An inconvenience. What a stupid ignorant comment. Try 3-4 months of it. Air New Zealand none.

[Tucknroll]

An inconvenience. What a stupid ignorant comment. Try 3-4 months of it. Air New Zealand none.

stupid is thinking spending PAID time in quarantine is something to whine about. Don’t like it? Don’t do it. Plenty of work available cleaning toilets with me on minimum wage champ.

[Troo believer]

stupid is thinking spending PAID time in quarantine is something to whine about. Don’t like it? Don’t do it. Plenty of work available cleaning toilets with me on minimum wage champ.
Most of us have a story to tell on a minimum wage unfortunately. Sorry for your plight. It mustn’t be easy. The sooner we get out of this the better. One step is to get the quarantine rules changed. I’m merely pointing out the differences between the two countries participating in the bubble. Why quarantine when it’s unnecessary and not based on science. New Zealand don’t do it. Why should we when most are fully vaccinated. Call or email your local member and ask why. Do you want 14 or 0-2. It’s that simple.

[ScepticalOptomist]

But you do agree that so far only a small fraction of the population has been infected? And that the death rate is approximately 2%, and there are long term effects for perhaps 30% of the others? Extrapolate that out to a 100% infection incidence, who the hell is going to provide acute care for that many people, bury that many people and provide chronic care for that many people?

There was always going to be a race between the virus and the vaccine, and those countries that understood that have suffered fewer deaths and costs.

Therein lies the problem - which virus has ever infected 100%? None of them have.
COVID is dangerous to the elderly and to those with underlying conditions. It’s dangerous and should be contained.
To this day, CV kills approximately 2% of those that catch it. Even in the US where it ran rampant, 10% of the population caught it. Brazil, India, UK, Italy - all disasters, and yet all have similar stats - roughly 10% infection, roughly 1-2% of that 10% die. That’s approximately a 0.02 fatality rate for a population. Now look at the rates for every other fatal disease that we have. COVID is bad for sure - just not hysterically so.

We did much better in Australia / NZ. No argument there. Let’s see how we fare post CV - I reckon we’ve snookered ourselves a little. Time will tell how well we handle the “exit strategy”.

[Australopithecus]

You are right that 100% of populations don’t get infected since, among other things, viruses tend to die out after herd immunity is reached. But the current estimates about the current variations run into the low 80’s. Still lots of people, but that’s moot mostly because vaccines were developed in record time and are slowly becoming more widely available.

No, covid isn’t bad compared to SARS or other diseases, but those others you never get in pandemic numbers.

Regarding the exit strategy...I worry about it too since no one seems to be discussing what that is going to look like. Collectively we have embraced eradication, but since eternal isolation isn’t a practical path the government needs to start defining milestones and stages of reopening to the larger world. We certainly cannot let anti vaxxers inform policy on acceptable risk, one way or the other.

[Icarus2001]

but those others you never get in pandemic numbers. Is it even a pandemic in Australia and NZ?

Only 246 cases in Australia. 25 cases in NZ

[oldm8ey]

Most of us have a story to tell on a minimum wage unfortunately. Sorry for your plight. It mustn’t be easy. The sooner we get out of this the better. One step is to get the quarantine rules changed. I’m merely pointing out the differences between the two countries participating in the bubble. Why quarantine when it’s unnecessary and not based on science. New Zealand don’t do it. Why should we when most are fully vaccinated. Call or email your local member and ask why. Do you want 14 or 0-2. It’s that simple.
No stand down provisions in Air NZ contract. Air NZ has therefore been operating this whole time because they have no choice (must generate revenue). Not possible with 14 day crew quarantine. Clearly an arrangement between Air NZ and the NZ government (majority shareholder). Obviously it's just a different playing field on the west side of the Tasman. I'd file this under "it is what it is".

[SHVC]

Now two big name Cricket Australia commentators are lashing out at the PM saying he had bloody on his hands. I must say I hope those two are removed from public life. Why do these ppl think cricketers deserve preferential treatment, they put themself in this situation knowing what could happen.

This is another example of why Australian athletes should be band from attending the Olympic Games.

[ScepticalOptomist]

You are right that 100% of populations don’t get infected since, among other things, viruses tend to die out after herd immunity is reached. But the current estimates about the current variations run into the low 80’s. Still lots of people, but that’s moot mostly because vaccines were developed in record time and are slowly becoming more widely available.

No, covid isn’t bad compared to SARS or other diseases, but those others you never get in pandemic numbers.

Regarding the exit strategy...I worry about it too since no one seems to be discussing what that is going to look like. Collectively we have embraced eradication, but since eternal isolation isn’t a practical path the government needs to start defining milestones and stages of reopening to the larger world. We certainly cannot let anti vaxxers inform policy on acceptable risk, one way or the other.


I found this interesting regarding the US. Apologies for the link - hopefully it’s viewable!

https://apple.news/ADRGHPLjTQdWCbcDbzJHywg

The title was “Is the world finally getting sick of Covid-mania?” Published in The Australian newspaper May 4.

[Troo believer]

Now two big name Cricket Australia commentators are lashing out at the PM saying he had bloody on his hands. I must say I hope those two are removed from public life. Why do these ppl think cricketers deserve preferential treatment, they put themself in this situation knowing what could happen.

This is another example of why Australian athletes should be band from attending the Olympic Games.
Exhibit A.

[Australopithecus]

I found this interesting regarding the US. Apologies for the link - hopefully it’s viewable!

https://apple.news/ADRGHPLjTQdWCbcDbzJHywg

The title was “Is the world finally getting sick of Covid-mania?” Published in The Australian newspaper May 4.

I can’t view it since I don’t subscribe to any Murdoch media.

I did see this cartoon today, from the 1930’s. La plus ca change...


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1111x1498/67bb1bbb_8408_407a_8f68_1359001ccf82_ab1e9755d62faae6e413562 51cb1448a1d713042.jpeg

[dr dre]

I found this interesting regarding the US. Apologies for the link - hopefully it’s viewable!

https://apple.news/ADRGHPLjTQdWCbcDbzJHywg

The title was “Is the world finally getting sick of Covid-mania?” Published in The Australian newspaper May 4.

Actually more like “are US Republicans getting sick of Covid restrictions?” And the answer being yes, they’ve been sick of them since this pandemic started, which is why Republican states have had higher Covid tolls (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-has-hit-people-in-republican-led-states-hardest-study-finds) than Democratic ones.

As far as Australia goes well there was a Lowy Institute poll recently (https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.sbs.com.au/eds/news/article/most-australians-are-comfortable-with-the-ban-on-international-travel-poll-shows/4fdb4b0c-056f-4cb0-a115-2bbe52c6c3c4) with some telling stats on what Australians want with borders:

A Lowy Institute poll has shown only two in 10, or 18 per cent of people, feel all Australians should be free to leave the country.

41 per cent agreed with the current policy that requires people to have special exemptions to be allowed to leave the country.

Only a third of Australians aged 18-59 said those vaccinated should be free to leave now

Almost 60 per cent feel the government has done enough to help fellow citizens return home

No Australians felt the US had handled COVID-19 very well, while a whopping 92 per cent said the pandemic was managed very or fairly badly there

[ScepticalOptomist]

Actually more like “are US Republicans getting sick of Covid restrictions?” And the answer being yes, they’ve been sick of them since this pandemic started, which is why Republican states have had higher Covid tolls (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-has-hit-people-in-republican-led-states-hardest-study-finds) than Democratic ones.

As far as Australia goes well there was a Lowy Institute poll recently (https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.sbs.com.au/eds/news/article/most-australians-are-comfortable-with-the-ban-on-international-travel-poll-shows/4fdb4b0c-056f-4cb0-a115-2bbe52c6c3c4) with some telling stats on what Australians want with borders:

A Lowy Institute poll has shown only two in 10, or 18 per cent of people, feel all Australians should be free to leave the country.

41 per cent agreed with the current policy that requires people to have special exemptions to be allowed to leave the country.

Only a third of Australians aged 18-59 said those vaccinated should be free to leave now

Almost 60 per cent feel the government has done enough to help fellow citizens return home

No Australians felt the US had handled COVID-19 very well, while a whopping 92 per cent said the pandemic was managed very or fairly badly there

Says a lot about what we’ve become. It’s sad how insular and mollycoddled we are.

[kingRB]

Actually more like “are US Republicans getting sick of Covid restrictions?” And the answer being yes, they’ve been sick of them since this pandemic started, which is why Republican states have had higher Covid tolls (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-has-hit-people-in-republican-led-states-hardest-study-finds) than Democratic ones.


Posting more politicized crap like its factual eh Dre?

Interesting "Medical" website that one. After you're done reading about how "people I don't like get Covid more", You can also read about :
Should we criminalize speech we don't like? (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/should-we-criminalize-covid-19-vaccine-disinformation#The-case-for-criminalization)
Transphobia (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/internalized-transphobia)
Can men get periods? (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/can-trans-women-get-periods)
How to have commitment free sex with as many people as possible (https://www.healthline.com/health/hiv-aids/how-to-make-friends-with-benefits-work)

Don't worry though, these are all "fact checked" and "medically reviewed" by the same publisher that wrote them.

[chookcooker]

“
The authors of the study write that they adjusted for “state population density, rurality, Census region, age, race, ethnicity, poverty, number of physicians, obesity, cardiovascular disease, asthma, smoking, and presidential voting in 2020.”

ha ha. Yup no bias there.

[Fonz121]

How's Australia and it's elimination policy going to deal with this?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/health/covid-herd-immunity-vaccine.html?utm_source=pocket-newtabReaching ‘Herd Immunity’ Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe
Now, more than half of adults in the United States have been inoculated with at least one dose of a vaccine. But daily vaccination rates are slipping, and there is widespread consensus among scientists and public health experts that the herd immunity threshold is not attainable — at least not in the foreseeable future, and perhaps not ever.

Instead, they are coming to the conclusion that rather than making a long-promised exit, the virus will most likely become a manageable threat that will continue to circulate in the United States for years to come, still causing hospitalizations and deaths but in much smaller numbers.

[Ladloy]

How's Australia and it's elimination policy going to deal with this?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/health/covid-herd-immunity-vaccine.html?utm_source=pocket-newtabReaching ‘Herd Immunity’ Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe

My understanding was that the elimination policy in Australia was a placeholder until the population was vaccinated enough to have herd immunity. The US will most likely have a much lower total vaccination rate due to the great divide in politics, but who knows, there's enough reluctance here now too.

[ruprecht]

How's Australia and it's elimination policy going to deal with this?

At some point in the future, the borders will be open, and people will be able to leave and return with no quarantine requirements. I used to say that the trick was figuring out when that point would be, but now I’m not so sure. Now I think that the trick is to convince people that this point actually exists.

In my secondary employment I work with people who have all their friends and relatives within 100km, who “went to Queensland once” and “didn’t like it”. They want the borders closed, and I quote: “forever, keep them shut, no one out or in until the virus has gone”. If anyone thinks we are going to get 100% consensus on the border opening they’re deluded.

Once everyone has had the opportunity to be vaccinated in this country, the government needs show some leadership and start looking at a date for a gradual reopening.

[lc_461]

At some point in the future, the borders will be open, and people will be able to leave and return with no quarantine requirements. I used to say that the trick was figuring out when that point would be, but now I’m not so sure. Now I think that the trick is to convince people that this point actually exists.

In my secondary employment I work with people who have all their friends and relatives within 100km, who “went to Queensland once” and “didn’t like it”. They want the borders closed, and I quote: “forever, keep them shut, no one out or in until the virus has gone”. If anyone thinks we are going to get 100% consensus on the border opening they’re deluded.

Once everyone has had the opportunity to be vaccinated in this country, the government needs show some leadership and start looking at a date for a gradual reopening.

If you actually wade through the comments of Jill and Joe Public re the India ban, they are largely very supportive of the government's ban. WA and QLD and to a lesser extent TAS and NT won state/territory elections based on locking out "others". Qld Premier "Qld hospitals are for Qlders". I would argue it is highly unlikely that ScoMo would seek to take this step in opening the border in an election year. Vaccine hesitancy appears rife in some sectors, but anecdotally where the virus impacted last year the most (VIC), people are more prepared to take the "risk" of the vaccine. Why the govt doesn't spend $50M rolling out a massive ad campaign and use carrot and stick incentives I don't know...

[jrfsp]

A local case just identified in Sydney, unknown source at this stage - not good.

[Icarus2001]

Yes, ONE CASE, let’s all panic now and kill every small business selling coffees and meals...

[Chris2303]

Yes, ONE CASE, let’s all panic now and kill every small business selling coffees and meals...

how about being adult about it and hope that they can find the origin.

This is why Kiwis didn't want the border open

[cloudsurfng]

It’s in the community everywhere. Always has been.

people just can’t be f@&ed getting tested anymore, complacency and just generally being completely over it.

[Troo believer]

how about being adult about it and hope that they can find the origin.

This is why Kiwis didn't want the border open

You shouldn’t throw stones when you live in a glass house. Double standards New Zealand style.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300282386/covid19-vaccinated-kiwi-pilots-plea-for-reduced-or-athome-quarantine?fbclid=IwAR0Oito2iW50nD8Kb8V5GX5fGSkOvb17Tv-2d9bcFDlcw7EPZHIpN66gxfA

The Kiwi government doesn’t believe it necessary to quarantine its own crew upon return from an international flight outside the bubble. Are the Tongans or Cook Islanders happy with the gaping hole in the New Zealand quarantine wall? This matter now has the attention of both state and federal governments in Australia. This could easily bring the whole eradication policy tumbling down. It will only take one Kiwi crew member to import the virus and the inadequacy of the current policy will be revealed. What if an infectious aircrew member lives with an essential worker? Nurse or Doctor? Aged care worker? Another pilot or F/A that is flying the bubble? This would be all well and good if the general population is vaccinated but it isn’t. Fingers crossed🤞, you’re going to need it.

[Agent_86]

A local case just identified in Sydney, unknown source at this stage - not good.

McGowan is already looking at closing the WA Border to NSW subject to 'Medical Advice' :rolleyes:

[DirectAnywhere]

McGowan is already looking at closing the WA Border to NSW subject to 'Medical Advice' :rolleyes:

Of course he is. It’s the perfect opportunity to reframe COVID as an external threat, caused by those filthy others on the eastern side of the border. It will also suit to divert attention from WAs own failures in the last few weeks and bring back some of the glow of His Almighty Luminous Radiance of WA, when some may have perhaps recently started to question his self avowed brilliance.

[dr dre]

This was just released this morning:

Australians hoping international travel will return to normal next year have been dealt a blow, as the Federal Government warns borders are unlikely to reopen until the end of 2022 at least.

Finance Minister Simon Birmingham said despite the rollout of the vaccine, global outbreaks and new mutant strains, such as those in India, left the world facing as much uncertainty as ever.

He said this meant Australia’s international borders– which have largely locked Australians in since March 2020 – would likely remain shut well into next year.

“We recognise that if Australians want to be kept safe and secure … and given uncertainties that exist not just in the speed of the vaccine rollout but also the extent of its effectiveness to different variants of COVID, the duration of its longevity and effectiveness, these are all considerations that mean we won’t be seeing borders flung open at the start of next year with great ease,”


Finance Minister Simon Birmingham says no overseas travel until later in 2022 (https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/finance-minister-simon-birmingham-says-no-overseas-travel-until-later-in-2022/news-story/8098512c990408a8643fe8f404f05a1c)

[jrfsp]

This was just released this morning:



Finance Minister Simon Birmingham says no overseas travel until later in 2022 (https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/finance-minister-simon-birmingham-says-no-overseas-travel-until-later-in-2022/news-story/8098512c990408a8643fe8f404f05a1c)

Im not surprised....the UK has already ordered boosters for the new variants for Sept this year....and yet here the majority of the population will still be unvaccinated by then

[Dannyboy39]

I say again, are Aussies really putting up with this?

A border closure until 1 Jan 2023 at least. Wow.. it baffles belief. Meanwhile the rest of the world will return to some semblance of normality.

[SOPS]

I say again, are Aussies really putting up with this?

A border closure until 1 Jan 2023 at least. Wow.. it baffles belief. Meanwhile the rest of the world will return to some semblance of normality.

Im going to say.. let’s wait and see how well the UK experiment with international travel goes...

[Chris2303]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/125046723/transtasman-travel-bubble-quarantinefree-travel-from-sydney-suspended

SYD - NZ quarantine free flights suspended

[Dannyboy39]

Im going to say.. let’s wait and see how well the UK experiment with international travel goes...
Considering over 50m vaccines have now been given out and everyone must be tested at least 3 times for every overseas trip, probably better than last year. And to low risk destinations only are quarantine free.

Why is the same response always returned whenever the Australian approach is questioned... “but but but UK...” And I’m definitely no fan of Boris.

Believe it or not, if borders are not reopened, pilots do not have jobs. Do you seriously think airlines should be continuing to pay your wages with no one in the back?

[Tucknroll]

Considering over 50m vaccines have now been given out and everyone must be tested at least 3 times for every overseas trip, probably better than last year. And to low risk destinations only are quarantine free.

Why is the same response always returned whenever the Australian approach is questioned... “but but but UK...” And I’m definitely no fan of Boris.

Believe it or not, if borders are not reopened, pilots do not have jobs. Do you seriously think airlines should be continuing to pay your wages with no one in the back?

Um, no one is paying my salary. I’m currently SU. The U stands for unpaid.

[Oriana]

And to think, at the beginning of all of this, restrictions were to 'flatten the curve'.

[Ladloy]

And to think, at the beginning of all of this, restrictions were to 'flatten the curve'.
Clearly it doesn't work.

[minigundiplomat]

I say again, are Aussies really putting up with this?

A border closure until 1 Jan 2023 at least. Wow.. it baffles belief. Meanwhile the rest of the world will return to some semblance of normality.

Yes, and Dr Dre will be along soon to give you the chicken little story on COVID shortly. However, Australia has been largely unaffected by COVID in the way that the rest of the world has, and so flattening the curve has drifted into eradication and now cities are locked down for a single case. Last month we were wearing masks in Cairns and Mount Isa for cases in Brisbane (look at your atlas).

However, the main reason for borders remaining closed so long is the rather lethargic vaccine roll out which seems to consist of jabbing a few arms and knocking off for a beer each day, mixed with anyone in Australia who walked past someone who had spoken to someone that had been given the AZ jab having blood clots.

[blubak]

I say again, are Aussies really putting up with this?

A border closure until 1 Jan 2023 at least. Wow.. it baffles belief. Meanwhile the rest of the world will return to some semblance of normality.
India is normal i take it?

[Ladloy]

The reality is that the vaccination rollout is the weakest link in getting international travel back up and ruining. It has been a national embarrassment to say the least. Blood clots or not, the government should have had more options under their belt. The interesting thing is that Pfizer approached the government in July last year to secure some supply, it took them until October to make a decision. By that point we were at the back of the global queue. Now we have over 50s more than eligible for the jab and the vaccination centres are practically empty. I'm mid 30s and I'm happy to get AZ, hurry up and end all of this.

[dr dre]

The delay in the vaccine rollout is going to cost 10s of billions of $$ to the industry.

Insights Report: Counting the cost of Australia’s delayed vaccine roll-out Part Two: International border closures (https://mckellinstitute.org.au/wp-content/uploads/Part-Two-Counting-the-cost-of-the-vaccine-delay-part-two-v2-1.pdf)

And even then I think the uptake rates since those numbers have published have dropped off, we’re even below France blowing out the time even further.

It’s obvious media scaremongering about AZ and lack of incentive to get vaccinated locally is hampering the rollout. With the government unwilling to pull out all stops to get more alternate vaccines different incentives to encourage people to get vaccinated will have to be considered. Is it time to make a Covid vaccination mandatory for certain things? Not just travel without quarantine, to enter certain venues, to work certain jobs? With the rest of the world about to open unfettered travel for the vaccinated a thing Australian’s attitude may change quick. Sure it’ll piss off the “No Mandatory Vaccination” crowd, but they’re nutters and no one should care what they think:

EU plans summer opening for vaccinated tourists (https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/eu-restrictions-vaccinated-tourists/index.html)

[Tucknroll]

The reality is that the vaccination rollout is the weakest link in getting international travel back up and ruining. It has been a national embarrassment to say the least. Blood clots or not, the government should have had more options under their belt. The interesting thing is that Pfizer approached the government in July last year to secure some supply, it took them until October to make a decision. By that point we were at the back of the global queue. Now we have over 50s more than eligible for the jab and the vaccination centres are practically empty. I'm mid 30s and I'm happy to get AZ, hurry up and end all of this.

we should be the back of the global queue, we don’t have a Covid problem here. Send the vaccines where they are needed first, like we did with PNG.

[ScepticalOptomist]

we should be the back of the global queue, we don’t have a Covid problem here. Send the vaccines where they are needed first, like we did with PNG.

Sorry, we need to be more selfish than that. We do have a COVID problem here - as in we will be left behind while the rest of the western world opens for business as usual.

[WingNut60]

The delay in the vaccine rollout is going to cost 10s of billions of $$ to the industry.

Insights Report: Counting the cost of Australia’s delayed vaccine roll-out Part Two: International border closures (https://mckellinstitute.org.au/wp-content/uploads/Part-Two-Counting-the-cost-of-the-vaccine-delay-part-two-v2-1.pdf)

And even then I think the uptake rates since those numbers have published have dropped off, we’re even below France blowing out the time even further.

It’s obvious media scaremongering about AZ and lack of incentive to get vaccinated locally is hampering the rollout. With the government unwilling to pull out all stops to get more alternate vaccines different incentives to encourage people to get vaccinated will have to be considered. Is it time to make a Covid vaccination mandatory for certain things? Not just travel without quarantine, to enter certain venues, to work certain jobs? With the rest of the world about to open unfettered travel for the vaccinated a thing Australian’s attitude may change quick. Sure it’ll piss off the “No Mandatory Vaccination” crowd, but they’re nutters and no one should care what they think:

EU plans summer opening for vaccinated tourists (https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/eu-restrictions-vaccinated-tourists/index.html)
From personal experience and that of my family and friends, the biggest disincentive to vaccination is being told repeatedly "you'll need to wait for our next shipment, can you ring again tomorrow please".
Do that 5 or six times and see how incentivised you are still feeling.

No one that I know is in the least deterred by the clotting scaremongering.

[cloudsurfng]

we should be the back of the global queue, we don’t have a Covid problem here. Send the vaccines where they are needed first, like we did with PNG.


yeah nah. Comes a point when you have to look after yourself. Ask all the people in various industries stood down on a financial precipice and see if we don’t have a covid problem.

im all for sharing the love. But not at the expense of Australia. It was the governments hesitation in closing Australia off earlier due to being perceived as being ‘racist’ amd not wanting to rock the boat that got us here. all
you have to do is look at idiots like Andrew Bolt and his comments on the India ban. Why he gets any airtime is beyond me. But this is the society we live in. A society where f@&kwits can access the wider media, forcing the government to waste time defending stupid accusations rather than getting on with the job. Does anyone seriously think the ban on travellers from India is racially motivated?
Australia first, help when we can.

[ExtraShot]

The Feds have seen the effects of the ‘we kept you safe’ narrative that has benefited governments in NZ, NT, QLD, WA and Tas, and they know it holds power with a fearful populace. After the disastrous response to the acts of sexual deviance and culture in parliament, and after a less than stellar vaccine rollout, the Libs will not risk any more electoral damage until next year’s Federal election is done and dusted. Maybe talk of a travel bubble here and there to keep folks like us hopeful, but no real action unless the risk is practically nil...

However...

Make no mistake they are itching for international travel to return. No, they actually desperately NEED it to. It’s budget week next week and you can bet Treasury forecasts don’t add up unless immigration is juiced back to 200000 plus Net per year; oh, and let’s face it, the big business donors will be demanding the flow of warm bodies, erm sorry, ‘skilled labor’, to put a lid back on that nasty wage growth, and the shocking requirements of having to spend a realistic amount of time and money to train locals for jobs, both of which is just simply unacceptable to them.

International travel will return with a vengeance just as soon as vaccination numbers and electoral realities allow for it.

[TurningTheSpanners]

Make no mistake they are itching for international travel to return........ unless immigration is juiced back to 200000 plus Net per year;

I wonder if you're conflating two different propositions here?

Yep, the Gubbinment would like needs immigration to return but I'm not so sure about tourists.

For every international visitor bringing their ¥, their € and their £ into Australia, Bill and Barbara are taking Australian $$'s out of the country to spend in places-that-don't-have-our-G.S.T.


International travel will return with a vengeance just as soon as vaccination numbers and electoral realities allow for it.

I totally agree, and while certain industries want international travellers I suspect that the pent up demand means that there's going to be a lot more Australians heading overseas to spend their dollars than there will be tourists inbound.

TTS

EDIT
....It’s budget week next week and you can bet Treasury forecasts don’t add up....

Iron ore just hit $200 ton, that'll have Josh smiling

[Dannyboy39]

India is normal i take it?
FFS are you really comparing India to the western world? I’ve worked in India for a few months - I like the place, but let’s not make any mistake here... disease and destitution is endemic in the population at large. A million people die from diarrhoea every year and a third of the country doesn’t have access to a working toilet

[ExtraShot]

I wonder if you're conflating two different propositions here?

Yep, the Gubbinment would like needs immigration to return but I'm not so sure about tourists.

No I’m not, I didn’t mention Tourism, though inbound or outbound it’s all favorable for us to get back to work, we want bums on seats.

However , Immigration doesn’t return the way treasury forecasts need it to unless International travel returns. It’s not just permanent migrants. But PR holders, Students, Temporary workers, etc etc... it adds up to many more travelers than a Net migration figure of 200000 (many of whom also then themselves travel back and fourth to visit family and friends). The governments numbers don’t add up without it all, and many businesses will be ‘leaning’ on them making it happen ASAP.

Iron ore may have hit $200 a ton (I’d say Gina and twiggy are smiling more than Josh), but Structural steel is up about 3-4 times, as is the price of lumber... that won’t do the building industry any favors unless there’s a way to keep demand at levels that will endure the required price rises. We know the rent seekers in the property industry love the way our immigration policies have kept demand for property elevated. They are a prime example of those in industries beyond tourism wanting unrestricted travel to return soon, and at the highest levels possible.

[Foxxster]

Utterly incredible. Queensland is going to make its QR code app mandatory next month. That’s May 2021. It only made the app available in March 2021. The app is now only voluntary. But even when it is made mandatory, it won’t be mandatory for everyone. And yet that ****wit Steven Miles thinks he is king ****… Christ are Queenslanders all intellectually impaired that they voted incompetent dip****s like him back in. Rhetorical question there.

How long has this pandemic being going. And it takes them until bloody May 2021 to make QR codes mandatory. And they still stuff it up allowing separate systems to be used. Yep, that’s going to streamline things, speed the process up. Make everyone use the one system, nah. Why the hell would you want to do that.Who is impacted?"Most" hospitality venues – in other words, pubs, restaurants and cafes will need to use it.

Mr Miles said licensed clubs that used ID scanning would still have the choice of using that for their record keeping.

[Fonz121]

Soooo, you agree with the mandatory QR code app or not? Your messaging is all over the shop.


Utterly incredible. Queensland is going to make its QR code app mandatory next month. That’s May 2021. It only made the app available in March 2021. The app is now only voluntary. But even when it is made mandatory, it won’t be mandatory for everyone. And yet that ****wit Steven Miles thinks he is king ****… Christ are Queenslanders all intellectually impaired that they voted incompetent dip****s like him back in. Rhetorical question there.



How long has this pandemic being going. And it takes them until bloody May 2021 to make QR codes mandatory. And they still stuff it up allowing separate systems to be used. Yep, that’s going to streamline things, speed the process up. Make everyone use the one system, nah. Why the hell would you want to do that.Who is impacted?"Most" hospitality venues – in other words, pubs, restaurants and cafes will need to use it.

Mr Miles said licensed clubs that used ID scanning would still have the choice of using that for their record keeping.

[Foxxster]

Soooo, you agree with the mandatory QR code app or not? Your messaging is all over the shop.

seems very clear to me, or are you being sarcastic…

in case you are not , yes I agree with mandatory QR codes

[morno]

seems very clear to me, or are you being sarcastic…

in case you are not , yes I agree with mandatory QR codes

Errrr, I’ve been checking in with QR code’s in most places in QLD since about this time last year, or mid year, can’t remember exactly.

Wtf are you on about?

[601]

Errrr, I’ve been checking in with QR code’s in most places in QLD since about this time last year, or mid year, can’t remember exactly.

Wtf are you on about?
A mishmash of all different private organisations collecting collecting a lot more data that that required by the Health Dept.
Some worked some didn't.
Funny that there is a lot of people called Micky Mouse living in Oz.

[highflyer40]

A mishmash of all different private organisations collecting collecting a lot more data that that required by the Health Dept.
Some worked some didn't.
Funny that there is a lot of people called Micky Mouse living in Oz.

Here in the UK we use the NHS app to check in to places/venues. Takes less than 2 seconds and it’s anonymous. You download the app switch on bliuetooth and off you go. You don’t need to register or anything. When you go somewhere you open the app tap “check in to venue” scan QR code and your done. You can then get an alert on your phone telling you that you have been in contact with someone who has subsequently tested positive, and you must isolate. That’s the end of it. It leaves it up to the user to comply or not.

[A320 Flyer]

That’s the end of it. It leaves it up to the user to comply or not.

how did that work out for the UK over the last 12 months?

[Tucknroll]

how did that work out for the UK over the last 12 months?

Yeah real gold standard Covid management over there.

[minigundiplomat]

Yeah real gold standard Covid management over there.

To be fair to the POMS, they’re a global crossroads interlaced across many other countries, and have almost 3 times the population, not an out of the way island, however beautiful or lucky that island is.

and they’ve jabbed over 40m people with a vaccine whilst our government has naval gazed and managed 2m

[Dannyboy39]

To be fair to the POMS, they’re a global crossroads interlaced across many other countries, and have almost 3 times the population, not an out of the way island, however beautiful or lucky that island is.

and they’ve jabbed over 40m people with a vaccine whilst our government has naval gazed and managed 2m
There seems to be a lot of naval gazing on this thread quite frankly. We are a small island that relies on imports from the continent. We have no option to isolate ourselves, but it feels as if the government are getting closer to that stance every day. Variants will arrive regardless of actions at the border. Millions of key workers are exempt from amber list quarantine because the benefit of them working outstrips the risk.

But anyway, the UK government released its green list yesterday. 12 territories of which 4 are only letting visitors in if you can believe that. And it includes Aus and NZ!

[Foxxster]

There seems to be a lot of naval gazing on this thread quite frankly. We are a small island that relies on imports from the continent. We have no option to isolate ourselves, but it feels as if the government are getting closer to that stance every day. Variants will arrive regardless of actions at the border. Millions of key workers are exempt from amber list quarantine because the benefit of them working outstrips the risk.

But anyway, the UK government released its green list yesterday. 12 territories of which 4 are only letting visitors in if you can believe that. And it includes Aus and NZ!


surely if you decide to holiday in Australia, you would still be at the mercy of our quarantine laws regardless of whether you are vaccinated or not. Which would mean two weeks isolation on arrival. Which I would think might dampen anyone’s or most people’s plans. Especially as you have to pay for it, somewhere around 1,800 squid for an individual.

[SRFred]

"Six overseas travellers who reported they were fully vaccinated have tested positive for COVID-19 while in hotel quarantine, authorities have revealed.

The numbers were released in this week’s NSW Health COVID-19 surveillance report as the federal government pushes forward with its vaccine passport plans.

The report states six people in the NSW hotel quarantine system tested positive over four weeks ending on May 1, despite reporting they were vaccinated prior to landing in Australia."

Make of that what you will.

[ruprecht]

Make of that what you will.

What I make of that is that the media is more interested in clickbait than objective reporting.

[ScepticalOptomist]

What I make of that is that the media is more interested in clickbait than objective reporting.

Precisely - there was lots of fluff and no facts in the article!

[SOPS]

Just because you are vaccinated, does not mean you can’t catch COVID. It just means you won’t get really sick. It seems to have crept into peoples thinking that if your vaccinated, you can’t catch COVID.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Just because you are vaccinated, does not mean you can’t catch COVID. It just means you won’t get really sick. It seems to have crept into peoples thinking that if your vaccinated, you can’t catch COVID.

True. Though there does seem to be growing data sets indicating that CV may not be transmissible if you are vaccinated. Time will tell how that goes.

What the article should have highlighted was that it seems those infected and vaccinated were symptom free. CV isn’t scary if it does nothing to you. The takeaway should have been - get vaccinated.

[Dannyboy39]

surely if you decide to holiday in Australia, you would still be at the mercy of our quarantine laws regardless of whether you are vaccinated or not. Which would mean two weeks isolation on arrival. Which I would think might dampen anyone’s or most people’s plans. Especially as you have to pay for it, somewhere around 1,800 squid for an individual.
As mentioned before, it should be me in December 2021 doing exactly this. I am resigned to it not happening now. I was actually being sarcastic about how wonderful it is to have a country on our safe to travel list that isn't allowing visitors!

On the vaccine, it is believe transmission is reduced by up to 50% with a vaccine. There is less and less Covid 'in the system' meaning it will be increasingly difficult for someone to find it.

[Foxxster]

"Six overseas travellers who reported they were fully vaccinated have tested positive for COVID-19 while in hotel quarantine, authorities have revealed.

The numbers were released in this week’s NSW Health COVID-19 surveillance report as the federal government pushes forward with its vaccine passport plans.

The report states six people in the NSW hotel quarantine system tested positive over four weeks ending on May 1, despite reporting they were vaccinated prior to landing in Australia."

Make of that what you will.

yes it could be clickbait or it could be people from a certain country that is going through a massive number of cases every day and are not averse to producing counterfeit documents.

https://qz.com/india/1993757/indians-are-using-fake-covid-19-results-to-travel-skip-exams/

https://www.refworld.org/docid/538c369f4.html (https://qz.com/india/1993757/indians-are-using-fake-covid-19-results-to-travel-skip-exams/)

[coaldemon]

The vaccine will only save you from getting really sick if you catch COvid not so much from transmitting it. Although look at the Seychelles who are pretty much all vaccinated with vaccine from their North Asian benefactor. Apparently it isn't very effective and there is another wave starting there.

[Angle of Attack]

Well if there is wave that won’t make you sick what’s the problem?

[dr dre]

The vaccine will only save you from getting really sick if you catch COvid not so much from transmitting it. Although look at the Seychelles who are pretty much all vaccinated with vaccine from their North Asian benefactor. Apparently it isn't very effective and there is another wave starting there.

This is from the leading newspaper of the Seychelles (https://www.nation.sc/articles/8847/covid-19-update):

The cases we received recently are mostly close contacts and the majority of them are without symptom or with mild symptoms.

So the vaccine is working as intended. It protects against severe illness and hospitalisation. There’s an amount of spread because the island re-opened a few months ago (they’re heavily reliant on tourism).

[minigundiplomat]

So the vaccine is working as intended. It protects against severe illness and hospitalisation. There’s an amount of spread because the island re-opened a few months ago (they’re heavily reliant on tourism)

Nobody is allowed to get sick from now on, you should know that.

[Troo believer]

So the vaccine is working as intended. It protects against severe illness and hospitalisation. There’s an amount of spread because the island re-opened a few months ago (they’re heavily reliant on tourism)

Nobody is allowed to get sick from now on, you should know that.

Yes it seems that most of the general population are woefully ignorant and too lazy to educate themselves enough to have a modicum of understanding with regards to viruses and vaccines.

Millions of virus particles pass through our bodies everyday. A bucket of sea water near the coast line contains more virus particles than people on this planet. Some viruses are actually good and help us function whilst others not so good. Nothing in life is guaranteed and yet the numbty public are happy to consign responsibility for their own life and wellbeing over to the government whom will manipulate health propaganda in the most cynical fashion in order to ensure power remains within the LNP and or Labor Party. Look at WA.

We desperately need a Bill of Rights in this country. The abuse of power is obvious. The India fiasco and the threat of fining citizens trying to get home by the federal government is a national disgrace. Rather than lead they react. Poll driven selling a narrative that doesn’t pass any science. Just abysmal behaviour from the leadership that can’t commit to any timeline or cohesive policy on how we get out of this mess. We desperately need a strong leader to steer us out of this swamp. Could you imagine this sort of paralysis during a war? I no longer have faith or respect for Australia.
We suffer en masse from CLS. Chicken Little Syndrome.
Ah, that feels better.😀

[Cirressna]

What I don't understand is the number of deaths in the Seychelles is essentially 0, so why the lockdown? Are their hospitals overrun? Or is it is the global obsession with case numbers? To me it seems like the vaccine is working if no one is dying/clogging up the hospitals

[White Knight]

The vaccine will only save you from getting really sick if you catch COvid not so much from transmitting it.

It does cut transmission drastically; if you yourself aren't as ill with the virus (having been vaccinated) then there are far fewer viral particles in your upper airway, hence far less to cough and sneeze out, hence reducing the transmission. So I'm led to believe... Makes sense though!

[QFF]

The treasurer says today that the international border won't open till 2022 and that it's important that we "follow the medical advice". What is this "medical advice" that everyone seems to be following these days? "Medical advice" seems to cover a multitude of sins - from jailing returning citizens, locking down states and closing borders. Show us the evidence! What is happening in 2022 that renders it safe to open borders then? Why 2022 and not 2023/2024/never?

PM says elimination is not the goal and that borders will reopen when "it is safe to do so". What, like CASA's definition of safety - when zero planes are in the air, when there are zero cases of COVID...?

I suspect the safest thing to do is to have everyone vaccinated, but the govt seems to have shot themselves in the foot on that too - besides botching the rollout, now with minimal/no cases in the community, the side effects of the vaccine are more lethal than COVID and people feel there is no urgency/need to be vaccinated. After all, we're all right, Jack.

I'd love to know what the govt's definition of "safe" is, and how they expect to achieve that in 2022.

[ruprecht]

What is happening in 2022 that renders it safe to open borders then?

A federal election.

[lc_461]

I suspect the safest thing to do is to have everyone vaccinated, but the govt seems to have shot themselves in the foot on that too - besides botching the rollout, now with minimal/no cases in the community, the side effects of the vaccine are more lethal than COVID and people feel there is no urgency/need to be vaccinated. After all, we're all right, Jack.


This is the exact issue... my elderly parents (well >50+) are both in reasonable health but refusing to get vaccinated due to fear of blood clots. But apart from the fact that two of their children have been heavily impacted by the pandemic, their lives in the past 6 months, not so much. Mind you, they are also feeling "safe" in QLD. With no covid circulating in the community they aren't afraid and therefore not willing to take the vaccine "risk".
Its a dilemma - both have had the flu shot this year and would not accept being called an anti-vaxxer. I'm now grateful to be fully vaccinated, but I fear for the industry that this kind of mindset is developing in the older population, let alone the younger ones!

[QFF]

A federal election.

Would that take place on medical advice, too?

[dr dre]

What I don't understand is the number of deaths in the Seychelles is essentially 0, so why the lockdown? Are their hospitals overrun? Or is it is the global obsession with case numbers? To me it seems like the vaccine is working if no one is dying/clogging up the hospitals

I can’t tell. Not really much news coming out of the Seychelles. But they aren’t really instituting a lockdown. Masks compulsory, large gatherings banned, schools closed for two weeks. But inbound tourism is still encouraged, and restaurants and bars open with shorter hours.

[ExtraShot]

The treasurer says today that the international border won't open till 2022 and that it's important that we "follow the medical advice". What is this "medical advice" that everyone seems to be following these days? "Medical advice" seems to cover a multitude of sins - from jailing returning citizens, locking down states and closing borders. Show us the evidence! What is happening in 2022 that renders it safe to open borders then? Why 2022 and not 2023/2024/never?

PM says elimination is not the goal and that borders will reopen when "it is safe to do so". What, like CASA's definition of safety - when zero planes are in the air, when there are zero cases of COVID...?

I suspect the safest thing to do is to have everyone vaccinated, but the govt seems to have shot themselves in the foot on that too - besides botching the rollout, now with minimal/no cases in the community, the side effects of the vaccine are more lethal than COVID and people feel there is no urgency/need to be vaccinated. After all, we're all right, Jack.

I'd love to know what the govt's definition of "safe" is, and how they expect to achieve that in 2022.



I’ve said it earlier and I’ll say it again, Liberal or Labor, ‘Safe’ means ‘electorally’ safe... that is, they aren’t risking next years election to give people their freedoms back.

Once that election is won, it’ll then mysteriously become ‘safe’ for travelers from certain countries/regions, and the vaccinations will be heralded as an unmitigated success to allow for those bubbles and relaxed quarantine requirements... (look at the US relaxing their travel requirements) .


https://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/get-them-to-work-nab-boss-calls-for-skilled-migration-to-resume-20210507-p57q0r.html

...the big business string pullers are already demanding the floodgates open and they do NOT want to pay the wages required to attract the talent, nor provide any costly training to us expensive locals as would have to occur if our borders were to remain closed (they aren’t even attempting to hide this fact). They want the taps for low-wage ‘skilled’ migration turned back on ASAP.

Hard Borders will have to start to loosen because the federal government ain’t getting on with building the quarantine facilities required to funnel masses of people back in. They’ll need the hotel quarantine spots currently used for Australians returning from Europe, the US etc, so that NAB and the like can get their accounting and IT graduates from the subcontinent, and restaurants to get their chefs from the Philippines, etc, etc...

SO, all of a sudden bubbles for the vaccinated become acceptable from Singapore, Europe, the UK the US etc where vaccination rates are high, home quarantine perhaps acceptable from others, reduced quarantine from others... so as not to have those people using up hotel quarantine spots for those other areas that may need 14 days... and on it goes.

The migration Ponzi is far too engrained for us to remain a closed shop for long, but our livelihoods will continue to be sacrificed until the election has been run and done because both major parties have seen just how potent that is with the average voter.

[ruprecht]

This is the exact issue... my elderly parents (well >50+) are both in reasonable health but refusing to get vaccinated due to fear of blood clots. But apart from the fact that two of their children have been heavily impacted by the pandemic, their lives in the past 6 months, not so much. Mind you, they are also feeling "safe" in QLD. With no covid circulating in the community they aren't afraid and therefore not willing to take the vaccine "risk".
Its a dilemma - both have had the flu shot this year and would not accept being called an anti-vaxxer. I'm now grateful to be fully vaccinated, but I fear for the industry that this kind of mindset is developing in the older population, let alone the younger ones!

Yes it’s an interesting loop we find ourselves in.

We have zero covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated...

:hmm:

[601]

If we do get a breakout here in the not do distance future, the rush on toilet paper we have seen will be minuscule compared on the rush for the vaccination.

[QFF]

If we do get a breakout here in the not do distance future, the rush on toilet paper we have seen will be minuscule compared on the rush for the vaccination.
That's a bum steer! :}

[ScepticalOptomist]

If we do get a breakout here in the not do distance future, the rush on toilet paper we have seen will be minuscule compared on the rush for the vaccination.

I think we need one to make people “have some skin in the game”.

Maybe then we will see some leadership!

[Tucknroll]

I think we need one to make people “have some skin in the game”.

Maybe then we will see some leadership!

Imagine suggesting that we need a breakout and the accompanying fear, panic and misery to get you back to work sooner.

Sort your priorities out.

[ExtraShot]

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/budget-plan-australia-to-open-borders-next-year-to-bring-back-migrants-20210509-p57qah.html


Just as I said... :}

Wage growth must be crushed, House prices to the moon, edu-migration rentseekers must be able to continue to sell off the quality of our kids education...

International travel will return as rapidly as the vaccination rates make it possible after the federal election.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Imagine suggesting that we need a breakout and the accompanying fear, panic and misery to get you back to work sooner.

Sort your priorities out.

Settle down mate, I was being facetious.

[OBNO]

Yes it’s an interesting loop we find ourselves in.

We have zero covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated...

:hmm:

And that pretty much sums it all up.

[ManillaChillaDilla]

Well said OBNO.

Political games under the guise of health care and " Safety " for all australians.

We are effectively being held hostage by those desperately trying to look relevant. We have all been on this oneway path for a long time now with seemily no exit strategy.

With an election year approaching, this has nothing to do with the welfare of australians ( unless you are a celebrity, Tennis player, Cricketer or very wealthy ). Have an election tomorrow and watch things change border wise.

This ridiculous situation is a politicians olympics.

But hey, the economy is going gangbusters!!!!!!. Really?

These slugs cant even manage a vacine rollout. How the hell are they going to navigate a clear path forward for the country?

MCD

[SOPS]

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/grim-prediction-australias-international-border-could-be-shut-for-years/news-story/8432838498a71efc2b0a9094cdab7071

This sounds positive.... not!!!!

[Angle of Attack]

Yet another failure of the Submarine with fly screens known as Hotel Quarantine. But Scomo said it’s 99.99% effective? Yeah right 99.8% of returned travellers never had it in the fist place. With the latest leak in Adelaides ****ty system, if you look at all positive returned travellers this ****show is now approaching a 5% leak rate, completely unacceptable. SA and WA now have the worst leak rate in hotel quarantine per positive cases, quite frankly I would now banish them from the hotel quarantine system full stop. When will we actually get the Feds to actually do something and build quarantine centres as recommended 1 year ago? Let’s face it SA and WA have been the main culprits in shutting borders down but it’s now obvious why…they can’t handle anything properly…..bumpkins….and don’t bag me I’ve lived in both WA and SA, just their governments are crap atm.

[ruprecht]

So you’re overseas and you don’t have covid. You return to Australia covid-free for hotel quarantine that YOU PAY FOR. You then spend two weeks sitting in a ****ty hotel room where you catch covid from some random bloke next door.

F*ck that.

[SOPS]

I’m guessing now 2023???


https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/federal-budget/federal-budget-2021-borders-to-remain-shut-until-mid2022-as-international-travel-delayed-again/news-story/0dd207ee00ff6f70ed5c63354da71758

[Oriana]

So, Australia goes full circle and becomes a prisoner's island.

[DirectAnywhere]

So you’re overseas and you don’t have covid. You return to Australia covid-free for hotel quarantine that YOU PAY FOR. You then spend two weeks sitting in a ****ty hotel room where you catch covid from some random bloke next door.

F*ck that.
I had the same discussion with my wife tonight. I reckon things are at the stage where I'd be happier running around the US with two doses of Pfizer in my arm than I would be sitting unvaccinated in an Australian quarantine hotel.

[havick]

I had the same discussion with my wife tonight. I reckon things are at the stage where I'd be happier running around the US with two doses of Pfizer in my arm than I would be sitting unvaccinated in an Australian quarantine hotel.

So you finally took the red pill and saw the light?

[DirectAnywhere]

So you finally took the red pill and saw the light?

I don’t know what that means, but maybe? Generally my wife tells me what colour the pill is and what I should be seeing so I just go with that.

[dr dre]

“Taking the red pill” is a term used by some to describe when you stop believing “mainstream opinion” and start believing “the secret truth”. Widely used by conspiracy theorists.

However in relation to the above post it wouldn’t be applicable, as it is mainstream scientific opinion that vaccines provide safety from viral illnesses. So wanting to be vaccinated to protect against Covid would be taking the “blue pill” (remaining with mainstream thought), whereas anti vaxxers will say they took the “red pill” when they realised the “truth” about vaccines.

[1A_Please]

“Taking the red pill” is a term used by some to describe when you stop believing “mainstream opinion” and start believing “the secret truth”. Widely used by conspiracy theorists.

However in relation to the above post it wouldn’t be applicable, as it is mainstream scientific opinion that vaccines provide safety from viral illnesses. So wanting to be vaccinated to protect against Covid would be taking the “blue pill” (remaining with mainstream thought), whereas anti vaxxers will say they took the “red pill” when they realised the “truth” about vaccines.
I'm now over 50. Taking the "blue pill" means something else again!!!

[havick]

“Taking the red pill” is a term used by some to describe when you stop believing “mainstream opinion” and start believing “the secret truth”. Widely used by conspiracy theorists.

However in relation to the above post it wouldn’t be applicable, as it is mainstream scientific opinion that vaccines provide safety from viral illnesses. So wanting to be vaccinated to protect against Covid would be taking the “blue pill” (remaining with mainstream thought), whereas anti vaxxers will say they took the “red pill” when they realised the “truth” about vaccines.

Think you’re misinterpreting my point.

I’m vaccinated.

My point was all the data and cases loads and deaths you’re reading about in the USA is massively inflated.

I’ve witnessed first hand in the US car crash victims being chalked up as Covid death even though Covid had zero to do with it, the deceased wasn’t even tested for it.

Secondly I personally know of more than a few people that we positive for Covid, took two weeks off, and then tested positive another 9-10 times after the two weeks. All the subsequent positive tests (from the same person!), counted as new Covid cases here in the US.

The above is the norm, not the exception.

[Double_Clutch]

Think Costco has Tin Foil on sale today

[rattman]

Think you’re misinterpreting my point.

I’m vaccinated.


I’ve witnessed first hand in the US car crash victims being chalked up as Covid death even though Covid had zero to do with it, the deceased wasn’t even tested for it.

Secondly I personally know of more than a few people that we positive for Covid, took two weeks off, and then tested positive another 9-10 times after the two weeks. All the subsequent positive tests (from the same person!), counted as new Covid cases here in the US.

The above is the norm, not the exception.

***Cough*** Bull**** ***Cough***

[SOPS]

***Cough*** Bull**** ***Cough***

What he said.

[Fonz121]

I’ve witnessed first hand in the US car crash victims being chalked up as Covid death even though Covid had zero to do with it, the deceased wasn’t even tested for it

Can you elaborate on the details of this?

[LostWanderer]

Think you’re misinterpreting my point.

I’m vaccinated.

My point was all the data and cases loads and deaths you’re reading about in the USA is massively inflated.

I’ve witnessed first hand in the US car crash victims being chalked up as Covid death even though Covid had zero to do with it, the deceased wasn’t even tested for it.

Secondly I personally know of more than a few people that we positive for Covid, took two weeks off, and then tested positive another 9-10 times after the two weeks. All the subsequent positive tests (from the same person!), counted as new Covid cases here in the US.

The above is the norm, not the exception.

Ugh...I thought people moved past this ridiculous conspiracy theory.
The car accident thing has been proven as utterly false, initially let loose on the public by a conservative FOX news host crackpot. Again, it is not true and never has been.
As for the testing being counted repeatedly, this actually did happen in VERY few locations and these numbers were corrected once it was identified the hospital staff had been mistakenly counting multiple cases, the amount of difference it made on the total numbers was negligible.

[Climb150]

There was some evidence that people on Medicare (US govt subsidised medical cover for over 65s) were having their death certificates state cause of death as CoVID, even if they had recovered from it or they were never tested before death. This is because the hospital would get a bigger payout on insurance if cause of death was CoVID.

This wasn't widespread and was stamped out pretty quickly.

[Foxxster]

Well who can believe any WuHu flu death statistics. The UK are saying their numbers could be overstated by something like 25% while Fauci in the US is saying the real number of deaths is more likely 900,000 not 600,000. So UNDERstated by 33%.

And if you have two advanced countries questioning their own numbers by a very large margin but in opposite directions then you would have to put a very large question mark over ALL numbers.

So yes the numbers on the whole are rubbish. And of course we now have India. The numbers there may as well have been pulled out of a hat.

[ruprecht]

The graphs (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores)on excess mortality are a good indication that something is going on.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores

[rattman]

Secondly I personally know of more than a few people that we positive for Covid, took two weeks off, and then tested positive another 9-10 times after the two weeks. All the subsequent positive tests (from the same person!), counted as new Covid cases here in the US.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/05/further-evidence-offered-claim-genes-pandemic-coronavirus-can-integrate-human-dna?utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Twitter

also why would they be tested 10 times, so much BS in your comment you sound like trump / conspiracy nut

[Foxxster]

The graphs (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores)on excess mortality are a good indication that something is going on.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores
yes I am not denying that.

actually the US figures were from this study which indicates a lot more suspected under reporting. I believe Fauci knew about the study but didn’t actually agree with the 900,000 number. He did say there was under reporting .

I can’t find the other study from the UK showing large over reporting. I read it around a month ago.

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1188

[kingRB]

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/05/further-evidence-offered-claim-genes-pandemic-coronavirus-can-integrate-human-dna?utm_campaign=NewsfromScience&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Twitter

also why would they be tested 10 times, so much BS in your comment you sound like trump / conspiracy nut

your point being what? your link states there's evidence that the virus will keep setting off positive PCR tests well after someone has recovered from an infection. Which means many positive tests are bogus.
There's many instances in the US with work where they test people as a condition of entry - so being tested numerous times like that doesn't seem unusual.

[jrfsp]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-14/australia-india-covid-19-repatriation-flight-empty-seats/100140260

First Indian repatriation post-ban flight left half empty due to the amount of passengers testing positive...hopefully they will oversell to avoid the flight leaving with so many empty seats. Will be interesting to see how many will further test positive at a later date in quarantine.

[SOPS]

And if there is a leak out of HS, you watch those state borders slam shut again.

[Cafe City]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-14/australia-india-covid-19-repatriation-flight-empty-seats/100140260

First Indian repatriation post-ban flight left half empty due to the amount of passengers testing positive...hopefully they will oversell to avoid the flight leaving with so many empty seats. Will be interesting to see how many will further test positive at a later date in quarantine.

Does it matter if they ALL have it? Isn’t that the presumption and purpose of quarantine anyway? How ever many we let in, we are meant to able to cope with all of them having it, aren’t we???

[CFD]

Does it matter if they ALL have it? Isn’t that the presumption and purpose of quarantine anyway? How ever many we let in, we are meant to able to cope with all of them having it, aren’t we???
Actually no..... the NT government has been very clear about this. We can cope with a maximum of 100 positive cases in Howard Springs and no more than one or two that require intensive care beds without crashing our one and only public hospital in Darwin which does not have many intensive care beds at all. If too many test positive they will slow down the number of Indian arrivals.... after all we are a tiny jurisdiction of only 250,000 people.

[CFD]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-14/australia-india-covid-19-repatriation-flight-empty-seats/100140260

First Indian repatriation post-ban flight left half empty due to the amount of passengers testing positive...hopefully they will oversell to avoid the flight leaving with so many empty seats. Will be interesting to see how many will further test positive at a later date in quarantine.
It doesn't leave until tonight. Of the 70 to be left behind about 40 tested positive from the PCR test conducted in the last 2 days (and the other 30 are close contacts). Additionally there is a rapid antigen test to be done before boarding the aircraft so wouldn't be surprised if there are some more discovered.
Don't think overselling comes into it..... the passengers apparently were in hotels paid for by Qantas (for the first round of testing) .... so I would guess just the ones planned to get flown back!

[patty50]

Crazy that of a relatively random sample of 150 people in India who are probably richer and more health conscious than average, still 70 returned a positive test. Vindication for scomo in turning off the arrivals from India. Vastly more positives coming from there than the US at their peak.

[ruprecht]

They should keep going down the list until they get enough pax testing negative to fill a 787.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Actually no..... the NT government has been very clear about this. We can cope with a maximum of 100 positive cases in Howard Springs and no more than one or two that require intensive care beds without crashing our one and only public hospital in Darwin which does not have many intensive care beds at all. If too many test positive they will slow down the number of Indian arrivals.... after all we are a tiny jurisdiction of only 250,000 people.

What a terribly thought out plan that was! A quarantine facility that can’t actually quarantine the sick.

[rattman]

Crazy that of a relatively random sample of 150 people in India who are probably richer and more health conscious than average, still 70 returned a positive test. Vindication for scomo in turning off the arrivals from India. Vastly more positives coming from there than the US at their peak.
only 40 positives, 30 are negative but cant fly as they are close contact to a positive. that said 27% positive rate is freaking scary number

[CFD]

What a terribly thought out plan that was! A quarantine facility that can’t actually quarantine the sick.
My understanding.... its not about quarantining the sick any more than hotel quarantine is.... its about returning people and managing a certain percentage that may be sick. pretty sure any state would be the same if they had one flight arrive with 1/4 of the passengers infected

[CFD]

only 40 positives, 30 are negative but cant fly as they are close contact to a positive. that said 27% positive rate is freaking scary number
Particularly as they were in a hotel paid for by Qantas and that was the first covid test..... i assume they were asymptomatic.... even more scary. Lets see what the rapid test says on the remaining passengers before they board the flight to Darwin tonight.... that might or might not be even more scarey!
I live in Darwin and to be clear I do support returning Australians.... but ... we are a small territory with a small population and it has to be managed to be safe to the locals.

[ScepticalOptomist]

My understanding.... its not about quarantining the sick any more than hotel quarantine is.... its about returning people and managing a certain percentage that may be sick. pretty sure any state would be the same if they had one flight arrive with 1/4 of the passengers infected

No, that’s what being scared and ill prepared gets us. We’ve had over a year to prepare for how to handle inbound Aussies - fortress Australia is a joke - but we tell ourselves we’re the best.

[t_cas]

No, that’s what being scared and ill prepared gets us. We’ve had over a year to prepare for how to handle inbound Aussies - fortress Australia is a joke - but we tell ourselves we’re the best.

A joke that is able to actually casually vaccinate? (Albeit a cockup)

The situation is not being managed at an optimal level for repatriation. I do not think for one minute, that the rest of the world would be thinking that Australia or for that matter, NZ are a joke when considering a world pandemic.

it is like that piece of paradise everyone on the planet is searching for and attempting to gain entry to, in an apocalypse. Using any means possible…..

Think any apocalyptic movie; Mad Max or Waterworld etc.

[SOPS]

I don’t think Australia is a joke. We live in a place the rest of the world wants to be. What I think is a joke is 10000 Australians left the safety of their home and went to India, and are now screaming they can’t get back by yesterday.

[ozbiggles]

No, that’s what being scared and ill prepared gets us. We’ve had over a year to prepare for how to handle inbound Aussies - fortress Australia is a joke - but we tell ourselves we’re the best.

You would have to agree just about every other country has bettered our Covid deaths score. If that’s a joke, I like it

[dr dre]

I don’t think Australia is a joke. We live in a place the rest of the world wants to be.

Yes I agree most of the world would’ve wanted to be in Australia from March 2020 to mid this year. However as vaccinations start to bring the developed northern hemisphere nations back to normality this northern summer I think that’s going to rapidly change.

[601]

What I do agree with is we have had over a year to prepare....and I am sure we could have done better. For example quarantine facilities not hotels.
Is the present system broke?
With over a 99.?% success rate, I believe it has worked quite well given that hotels were not designed for this.

If we do go down the track of building dedicated quarantine facilities (Wellcamp etc.) how do you propose that they staff these facilities.
There certainly would not be sufficient trained staff in Toowoomba.
If you move staff in, you would need to build staff accommodation.

[C441]

Actually no..... the NT government has been very clear about this. We can cope with a maximum of 100 positive cases in Howard Springs and no more than one or two that require intensive care beds without crashing our one and only public hospital in Darwin which does not have many intensive care beds at all. If too many test positive they will slow down the number of Indian arrivals.... after all we are a tiny jurisdiction of only 250,000 people.
And that is another reason why regional quarantine centres are not practical. Many parts of regional Queensland (and probably other states) are struggling to get medical staff to cover day-to-day practices before even considering how you would get medical staff to man a quarantine centre, spend 2 weeks in quarantine/isolation themselves after their 'shift' and have a few weeks off before starting the cycle again.

[lc_461]

And that is another reason why regional quarantine centres are not practical. Many parts of regional Queensland (and probably other states) are struggling to get medical staff to cover day-to-day practices before even considering how you would get medical staff to man a quarantine centre, spend 2 weeks in quarantine/isolation themselves after their 'shift' and have a few weeks off before starting the cycle again.

Agree.. Darwin is a 'capital city', but I think the government is going to find it incredibly difficult to find enough specialist medical staff to adequately service the surge capacity of Howard Springs. Even offering incredible pay etc may not be enough. This would further be exacerbated in more regional areas. Somewhere like AVV probably wouldn't have this problem. Toowoomba most likely would.

[Car RAMROD]

And that is another reason why regional quarantine centres are not practical. Many parts of regional Queensland (and probably other states) are struggling to get medical staff to cover day-to-day practices before even considering how you would get medical staff to man a quarantine centre, spend 2 weeks in quarantine/isolation themselves after their 'shift' and have a few weeks off before starting the cycle again.

Medical staff who work with covid patients currently do not need to isolate for two weeks after work. They can go straight out after shift. Why would them working in a camp suddenly require them to have two weeks of isolation?
See the hypocrisy thread.....



If we do go down the track of building dedicated quarantine facilities (Wellcamp etc.) how do you propose that they staff these facilities.
There certainly would not be sufficient trained staff in Toowoomba.
If you move staff in, you would need to build staff accommodation.
Wouldn’t you just build the staff accom at the same time you build the facility? Basically not a big deal.

[WingNut60]

.......... spend 2 weeks in quarantine/isolation themselves after their 'shift' and have a few weeks off before starting the cycle again.

Would they do that anyway, just because it's a camp site?
They don't do it now when the quarantine is in a city hotel.

But what's the point anyway?
The threat occurs when quarantinees, hotel and security staff walk out the door, not while they are inside.
How do you ensure that a person is 100% free from the disease before you allow them out to mingle?
That will apply regardless of type or location of the quarantine facility.
You could make them stay around Katherine / Exmouth / Christmas Island for an extra few weeks I suppose.
But I think you might get a bit of push back from the locals.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Yes I agree most of the world would’ve wanted to be in Australia from March 2020 to mid this year. However as vaccinations start to bring the developed northern hemisphere nations back to normality this northern summer I think that’s going to rapidly change.

I agree. The others are missing the point and the big picture.

What I think is a joke is that after 12 months of our experts working at the problem, they have come up with no tenable solutions. The vaccine was the answer, the grand plan - and so far they have managed to cock it up at every turn. Lock down and shutting borders was the easy bit - what now?

We will definitely be left behind as the rest of the western world leaves COVID behind them.

We use to pioneer, now we barely follow. It’s embarrassing how scared we are - totally a zero risk nation.

[rattman]

Would they do that anyway, just because it's a camp site?
They don't do it now when the quarantine is in a city hotel.


The original plan was, more due to remoteness, for the employees to live on site and quarantine with the returnies. I know someone who does FIFO mining work and they were sounded out for doing it. The plan was something like the kitchen/security/admin come in the day before to prep, next day the returnies come in and quarantine starts. They stay there for 14 days and leave all at the same time. They then get 6 days off and do it again. During the 6 days a seperate team comes in and does a through cleaning. They were going to get the standard FIFO rates and if theres an outbreak and forced to stay longer or get sick they would be compensated for it

[Angle of Attack]

Meanwhile the US has just implemented quarantine free international travel this northern summer for fully vaccinated people. We are a pathetic joke, with a pathetic leader that only got the job by knifing one of his own and it’s absolutely incompetent.. and the sheeple follow this fool from marketing? I’m embarrassed by what we have become, a scared bunch of cowards hiding in a fortress island, trying to believe we are safe by imprisoning ourselves….

Now after that rant, I really believe the pressure will build massively and the borders will open earlier than mid 2022, once everyone sees quarantine free travel spreading across the developed world over the next few months. WTF are you supposed to do after being vaccinated? Why a delay to preventing citizens from travelling? ….None Scomo still craps on relentlessly while doing basically nothing..

[SHVC]

Don’t worry if Labor with BS at the helm we would be on a lot worse position.

[Angle of Attack]

I disagree, I reckon our vaccinations would be close to 20 million by now with Shorten. He just wanted to do too much too quick in last election.
But sure as hell we would now have had quarantine centres built and a much higher vaccination level compared to this baseball hat muppet.

[Tucknroll]

Meanwhile the US has just implemented quarantine free international travel this northern summer for fully vaccinated people. We are a pathetic joke, with a pathetic leader that only got the job by knifing one of his own and it’s absolutely incompetent.. and the sheeple follow this fool from marketing? I’m embarrassed by what we have become, a scared bunch of cowards hiding in a fortress island, trying to believe we are safe by imprisoning ourselves….

Now after that rant, I really believe the pressure will build massively and the borders will open earlier than mid 2022, once everyone sees quarantine free travel spreading across the developed world over the next few months. WTF are you supposed to do after being vaccinated? Why a delay to preventing citizens from travelling? ….None Scomo still craps on relentlessly while doing basically nothing..

I guess you’ll see how pathetic the public think he is in the upcoming election. My prediction is that it’s going to be a landslide on the back of his handling of Covid alone. I don’t know anyone who is really predicting a Labor win.

No one cares about pilots, the airlines or travel agents. We aren’t seen as hard done by workers, and we’ve had years of record profits (and salaries) before this whole thing kicked off.

Universities are footing the bill for their own quarantine of students outside the daily quota, so the pressure from the education industry has eased somewhat. There’s no overwhelming groundswell from the public to open borders, in fact the opposite is true. The pollsters will have a clear view of public sentiment by now.

[lc_461]

I disagree, I reckon our vaccinations would be close to 20 million by now with Shorten. He just wanted to do too much too quick in last election.
But sure as hell we would now have had quarantine centres built and a much higher vaccination level compared to this baseball hat muppet.

I don't think the vaccine program is such a 'debacle' as it is being made out by the media, who in one breath slam the govt for being slow, the next they scare monger about taking said vaccine.
Last year, the government backed four vaccine candidates, 2 of which (AZ and the UQ one) could be made onshore, 2 (Pfizer and Novovax) used technology which was until now unproven. One out of the portfolio of 4, which was chosen before trials had even been completed, failed. We have been caught out by 'vaccine nationalism' -- / Europe using their own facilities to vaccinate their own people, the same in the US. Whoever would have guessed..? Australia is doing exactly the same thing with our AZ production. The fact that many millions of vaccines never made it at the start of the rollout is hardly the federal govt's fault.
I'm based in the ACT while I 'wait out' Covid - and here all nursing homes are pretty much fully vaccinated, as are all health and quarantine workers exposed to critical areas. Something like 15% of the population have been vaccinated by the territory alone (without accounting for federal govt numbers). NSW (appearing to be a bloody competent state government..) and VIC are now breaking their own records each day as more supply comes online. Can't speak for QLD and other states...
The challenge I think is to really tell everyone who will listen to go out and get vaccinated! For the greater good of the elderly in society...
Eventually the borders will open, and as citizens we need to be 'prepared'.

[TimmyTee]

Don’t worry if Labor with BS at the helm we would be on a lot worse position.
haha Captain Deflection and his crystal ball at work here!
randomly wheel out the old Bill Shorten boogeyman when **** hits the scomo-fan..

[601]

Can't speak for QLD and other states...
In Qld we are still waiting on the Qld Govt to open Vac Centres.
Trouble is the Qld Govt does not have the money for Vac Centres, rather have the Feds pay for it through the Doctors and Medicare

[Duck Pilot]

I can’t see this mess ending anytime soon.

Federal, State and Territory governments haven’t helped by operating as silos on most things COVID related. I know who I will be voting for at the next federal election!

Anyone who has been jabbed up should be exempted from travel restrictions, quarantine (as that clearly doesn’t work) and complying with lock down restrictions. Vaccination is the only long term solution with regards to eradicating this virus in my opinion, which will take years.

I live in Darwin and I’m expecting to go into lockdown at anytime due to a community transmission, not originated from Howard Springs but as a result of the behaviour of most of the population up here who believe the territory is insulated from the virus.

[Joker89]

It’s ridiculous that the vax centres weren’t part of the roll out plan back in March. Who thought that paying doctors to deliver jabs was the most efficient way forward.

[rattman]

In Qld we are still waiting on the Qld Govt to open Vac Centres.
Trouble is the Qld Govt does not have the money for Vac Centres, rather have the Feds pay for it through the Doctors and Medicare

Err what they are at public hospitals

[SHVC]

It’s ridiculous that the vax centres weren’t part of the roll out plan back in March. Who thought that paying doctors to deliver jabs was the most efficient way forward.

Doctors have always been paid to administer the jab.

[Global Aviator]

Offer the jab to anyone who wants it, simple. If that results in unable to keep up with supply then so be it. You may have read about a Darwin jab center having to throw out 50 jabs... Absolute madness.

There is certainly a large proportion of population who don’t want, don’t think the jab is necessary.

Maybe create herd mentality, oh look everyone is going to get the jab.

[Joker89]

Doctors have always been paid to administer the jab.
don’t doctors have actual patients to see, expecting them to have the capacity for a nation wide vaccine rollout is naive or corrupt

[WingNut60]

don’t doctors have actual patients to see, expecting them to have the capacity for a nation wide vaccine rollout is naive or corrupt
When was the last time that you had a vaccination delivered by a DOCTOR.

My local medical centre has a doctor overseeing the activity of several nurses (I presume??) collecting acceptance forms and administering inoculation.
Not terribly arduous for the doctor and a great little money spinner for the clinic.

[601]

When was the last time that you had a vaccination delivered by a DOCTOR.
Flu vax second week of April 2021 and he has given us the flu vax every year since we started getting it..

Our doctor is not doing COVID as he does not have the facilities.
Other local doctors are jabbing their own "Patient List" first so we are way down the list.
But we could get onto that "list" if we become one of their "regular patients" and leave the doc we have had for 29 years.

Err what they are at public hospitals
Don't understand that statement.

[compressor stall]

When was the last time that you had a vaccination delivered by a DOCTOR.
.
Last week.

[WingNut60]

Last week.
Yogistan,eh. Did you take a good look at his diploma?

[C441]

Medical staff who work with covid patients currently do not need to isolate for two weeks after work. They can go straight out after shift. Why would them working in a camp suddenly require them to have two weeks of isolation?
See the hypocrisy thread.....

True, but it doesn't alter the fact that regional areas currently struggle to get staff to operate standard GP clinics and hospitals. Short of an offer of a lot of money, why would a medical practitioner travel to a regional quarantine centre when they won't go to a standard medical centre?

[ruprecht]

True, but it doesn't alter the fact that regional areas currently struggle to get staff to operate standard GP clinics and hospitals. Short of an offer of a lot of money, why would a medical practitioner travel to a regional quarantine centre when they won't go to a standard medical centre?
Maybe that’s the plan for the A380 crew: staffing the quarantine centre :p.

[Cafe City]

When was the last time that you had a vaccination delivered by a DOCTOR.

My local medical centre has a doctor overseeing the activity of several nurses (I presume??) collecting acceptance forms and administering inoculation.
Not terribly arduous for the doctor and a great little money spinner for the clinic.

My wife had her first jab from a DOCTOR a couple of weeks ago too. Our local medical clinic appears to be running a roster for the DOCTORS to be coming in on Sundays to deliver jabs to their existing patients.

Judging by the number of phone calls related to bookings and managing a waiting area with 5 minute appointment times while I was waiting for her , I would say that it was quite arduous and doubtful it’s a money spinner at all.

PS. I’ll admit to normally being on the opposite side of politics to Dr Dre and some others no doubt but I’m getting fed up with the Good Cop/Bad Cop routine that Morrison has been playing the past few months. Get rid of the supercilious cheesy grin Scott and start taking Federal responsibility instead of duck-shoving everything to everybody else.