All borders to reopen.

[Square Bear]

Victoria is extremely targeted in its unprecedented enforced and targeted isolation.

Wondering why so targeted....obviously information know only to the intelligence gatherers, but concerning, especially that this is so against the DNA of the Victorian Labor Government.

[ozbiggles]

Because that is where the virus is? Same thing happened in Singapore with the migrant workers. Living in those arrangements is as the Feds are saying just a vertical cruise liner...without the nightclubs. I don’t think there is any sinister plot happening. Maybe if they put HEPA filters on the building it will solve it.

[Bend alot]

Because that is where the virus is? Same thing happened in Singapore with the migrant workers. Living in those arrangements is as the Feds are saying just a vertical cruise liner...without the nightclubs. I don’t think there is any sinister plot happening. Maybe if they put HEPA filters on the building it will solve it.
Cruise liners only had a few ships with any numbers (most one brand) a myth like HEPA filters on a Dash !

[ozbiggles]

You are right, I mean the Ruby Princess only had 340 cases of Covid and it’s not like that many people died on it...

[compressor stall]

Having private security at the lowest $ to guard quarantine is not a great idea, but that's what you get for lowest price tendering. Imagine the uproar if company XY got it at $Z million more per week as it actually was including proper PPE training and did some personality/psych screening. There be accusations of cronyism and a front page spread that Dan's third cousin's child's dog breeder was the GM.

However, the missus works at a major hospital and has been telling me for weeks that she is more worried about catching COVD from some of the other nurses than the patients (especially as many nurses work across multiple hospitals). They crowd in the tea room and behind the desk. She does her best to avoid them each shift.

And now we have an outbreak in a major hospital amongst nursing staff? I will bet that they didn't all get it from a patient.

The point of that is that even if they put nursing and healthcare staff on quarantine hotels staffing rosters, COVID might have got out anyway. Something other governments are starting to realise by calling and restricting the number of inbound OS pax.

This outbreak - although not great - is a sharp wakeup call to all if governments are trying to eliminate this virus from AU. Better now than in 3 months when everything is more relaxed and it would travel further and faster.

[Australopithecus]

Not the lowest bidder because there wasn’t a tender process, but yeah, a sector not known for its high mensa membership, unsupervised, untrained, and ill-equipped with PPE. This virus demands vigilance and rigorous hygiene practices to overcome. Instead, we got wishful thinking and “she'll be right, mate”

[wheels_down]

July’s roster is about to go down the Toilet.

Dan about to isolate Melbourne. Geelong to escape. News coming out soon.

[currawong]

"The point of that is that even if they put nursing and healthcare staff on quarantine hotels staffing rosters, COVID might have got out anyway. Something other governments are starting to realise by calling and restricting the number of inbound OS pax."

That is incorrect also.

The inbound numbers are being limited because quarantine facilities are reaching capacity.

[Stickshift3000]

The inbound numbers are being limited because quarantine facilities are reaching capacity.

Incorrect.

The number of international arrivals currently in Vic quarantine is not particularly high at all as at today. In fact, not even all hotels that have been used for quarantine are currently in use today.

Inbound international flights have been turned away to other Aus destinations so that Vic can improve it's quarantine practices and procedures. While the practices are being changed wouldn't be a great time to receive hundreds of people per day.

[Buster Hyman]

YMAV might get busy....

[Stickshift3000]

"The point of that is that even if they put nursing and healthcare staff on quarantine hotels staffing rosters, COVID might have got out anyway".

Each Vic quarantine hotel has a team of full time nursing staff stationed at it (around the clock). There are also full time Department of Health and Human Services staff on site at each hotel (around the clock).

I personally know of one nurse and several health staff that have become infected through hotel quarantine arrangements.

[Turnleft080]

July’s roster is about to go down the Toilet.

Dan about to isolate Melbourne. Geelong to escape. News coming out soon.

Speaking of toilets as of right now all dunny paper yibbida yibbida that is all.

[SOPS]

Melbourne is down for six weeks. Hope they have lots of toilet paper. And South Australia is calling in the Army to close off its border to Victoria.

[Bend alot]

You are right, I mean the Ruby Princess only had 340 cases of Covid and it’s not like that many people died on it...

Bit like the MAX cases - but they all died!

Total the number of pax and the resulted deaths on the cruise ships & you will find they have lower numbers than general city out breaks in many countries, given the average age - even more surprising.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_cruise_ships

Diamand & Ruby Princess are outstanding exceptions in case numbers.

[currawong]

Incorrect.

The number of international arrivals currently in Vic quarantine is not particularly high at all as at today. In fact, not even all hotels that have been used for quarantine are currently in use today.

Inbound international flights have been turned away to other Aus destinations so that Vic can improve it's quarantine practices and procedures. While the practices are being changed wouldn't be a great time to receive hundreds of people per day.

Stick, compressor stall said "other governments".

One of which said this today -

"We want to make sure that we keep people safe in our hotels, but if we are inundated with a lot of returnees to Western Australia we will struggle to provide the level of care that we expect."

FWIW the VIC capacity for providing quarantine has shown itself to be very limited indeed.

Unfortunately.

[Green.Dot]

Worth a read & watch. To the imbecile in charge of hotel security (Ie Dan) thanks for putting the economy, our jobs and mental health even further back...

https://www.tr.news/daniel-andrews-accountable/?fbclid=IwAR0VIQzrC5KbDjo_TgqQKFja_ciaPJJEXWm40dGbXrHymGz5N3 ThWbSz0SA

[Global Aviator]

There are still many repatriation flights being organised, simple fact.

Yes the government decides where they must go, ultimately quarantine decision.

I fear while plane loads are still inbound the flare ups will continue.

[Slezy9]

I fear while plane loads are still inbound the flare ups will continue.

I’m afraid the genie might be out of the bottle in VIC. I hope I’m wrong but it’s worse in VIC than it has been at any time. It needs to be locked down hard now. Not some half arsed effort. You can still get a hair cut FFS.

[blubak]

Worth a read & watch. To the imbecile in charge of hotel security (Ie Dan) thanks for putting the economy, our jobs and mental health even further back...

https://www.tr.news/daniel-andrews-accountable/?fbclid=IwAR0VIQzrC5KbDjo_TgqQKFja_ciaPJJEXWm40dGbXrHymGz5N3 ThWbSz0SA
So you believe everything this guy is saying?
The BLM protestors were told not to attend the protest but did they listen,each & every 1 of them decided to attend against every piece of advice given & even if it had been made illegal,do u think they would have all stayed home?
I agree the hotel security could definitely have been handled better but 1 person(as in andrews) cant be in every part of the state every minute of the day,the actual guards are the ones who have most to answer for & the companies they work for.
Its very easy to criticise but remember its not the premier or anyone else in his government thats out there & not adhering to the rules,its members of the community continuing to ignore what theyre being asked to do.
And before you ask,NO I DIDNT VOTE FOR HIM.

[chazwazza14]

I agree the hotel security could definitely have been handled better but 1 person(as in andrews) cant be in every part of the state every minute of the day,the actual guards are the ones who have most to answer for & the companies they work for.
Its very easy to criticise but remember its not the premier or anyone else in his government thats out there & not adhering to the rules,its members of the community continuing to ignore what theyre being asked to do.
And before you ask,NO I DIDNT VOTE FOR HIM.

I believe the point is that Dan Andrews put these security companies in place to take care of the quarantine. Every other state has used police (local or federal) or the defence force, along side health and border staff. Dan used a contractor, who then used a sub contractor, so there is no accountability. When there is no accountability, you have people who don’t care, you have people that have less training, and this leads the breaks in protocol. So it falls back on Dan and his decision to use his union backed security companies, instead of government employees.

[Turnleft080]

It looks like Josh frying-pan is about to extend job keeper, aviation keeper, whatever keeper. Your the man Dan.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Worth a read & watch. To the imbecile in charge of hotel security (Ie Dan) thanks for putting the economy, our jobs and mental health even further back...

https://www.tr.news/daniel-andrews-accountable/?fbclid=IwAR0VIQzrC5KbDjo_TgqQKFja_ciaPJJEXWm40dGbXrHymGz5N3 ThWbSz0SA

Blokes who post videos like this need to be held accountable.

[directimped]

It looks like Josh frying-pan is about to extend job keeper, aviation keeper, whatever keeper. Your the man Dan.
What is the point of your post ?

[Ragnor]

if Josh goes ahead with Aviation keeper, where will it stop. Tourism keeper? Hospitality keeper? Taxi driver keeper it will never end. Aviation has been hit hard but not only aviation as been affected. The umbilical chord needs to be cut at some point and September 27th should still be it, and yes jobs will go, even possibly mine.

[blubak]

Blokes who post videos like this need to be held accountable.
The commentator in this video really needs to have a look at himself,if he thinks he knows so much why is he associated with some news organisation thats basically unheard of.

[IWannaFly2020]

if Josh goes ahead with Aviation keeper, where will it stop. Tourism keeper? Hospitality keeper? Taxi driver keeper it will never end. Aviation has been hit hard but not only aviation as been affected. The umbilical chord needs to be cut at some point and September 27th should still be it, and yes jobs will go, even possibly mine.

Not really. The government has chosen to shut the industry down, to protect a minority. They should also protect those who have had their jobs sacrificed for this. Aviation keeper should align with UK style wage subsidy and be 80% of persons wage up to $5k a month limit.

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

if Josh goes ahead with Aviation keeper, where will it stop. Tourism keeper? Hospitality keeper? Taxi driver keeper it will never end. Aviation has been hit hard but not only aviation as been affected. The umbilical chord needs to be cut at some point and September 27th should still be it, and yes jobs will go, even possibly mine.
The difference is that those industries, while they won’t thrive, can still survive on business from within each state. The aviation industry in this country relies on intrastate travel.

[dr dre]

The commentator in this video really needs to have a look at himself,if he thinks he knows so much why is he associated with some news organisation thats basically unheard of.

That “commentator” is one of those far right “patriots” who have been rising in prominence over the last few years. He’s also a convicted wife basher who used a wooden chopping board to bash his ex wife (https://www.thejc.com/news/world/avi-yemini-jewish-spokesperson-for-tommy-robinson-convicted-of-assault-against-former-wife-1.486946).

You’ve got to think of the mental capacity of people who post uneducated rubbish from the utter filth of society like this guy and pass it off as “science”.

[ozbiggles]

I think you also have to think about the mental capacity of those who believe it.

[blubak]

That “commentator” is one of those far right “patriots” who have been rising in prominence over the last few years. He’s also a convicted wife basher who used a wooden chopping board to bash his ex wife (https://www.thejc.com/news/world/avi-yemini-jewish-spokesperson-for-tommy-robinson-convicted-of-assault-against-former-wife-1.486946).

You’ve got to think of the mental capacity of people who post uneducated rubbish from the utter filth of society like this guy and pass it off as “science”.
Perfect,that says it all!
Fair chance hes a regular at protests too,u know the ones where they are told to stay home but ultimately decide they know better & then try to blame others for causing the consequences.

[Mach E Avelli]

There are still many repatriation flights being organised, simple fact.

Yes the government decides where they must go, ultimately quarantine decision.

I fear while plane loads are still inbound the flare ups will continue.

The 'plane loads of inbounds' are no longer the problem. It is easy for the authorities to identify, test and quarantine the limited number of arrivals from overseas.

The problem now is the unrelenting retards already loose in our community who ignore best advice from medical experts and run around infecting others. A token fine won't deter these idiots - in any case most would not be able to pay a fine. Cutting their dole should be an option, but the civil liberties mob would raise a stink at that idea. Mandatory testing for anyone posing a risk is also something much needed, and again opposed by the bleeding heart brigade.
Perhaps tracking cuffs like they fit to criminals out on parole in some places needs to become mandatory for anyone subject to a quarantine order, but again the civil libertarians would object.
Offenders need to be removed to somewhere out of the general populous like a big jail in the desert. Ground zero at Maralinga would be ideal.

[kingRB]

That “commentator” is one of those far right “patriots” who have been rising in prominence over the last few years. He’s also a convicted wife basher who used a wooden chopping board to bash his ex wife (https://www.thejc.com/news/world/avi-yemini-jewish-spokesperson-for-tommy-robinson-convicted-of-assault-against-former-wife-1.486946).

You’ve got to think of the mental capacity of people who post uneducated rubbish from the utter filth of society like this guy and pass it off as “science”.


were you able to specifically address what was incorrect or non factual in that video, or do you just prefer to stick to the ad hominem approach?

[ozbiggles]

Are you able to show one that is correct? Without using YouTube as a ‘credible’ source?

Some other standard questions
Did 9/11 have some other conspiracy about it?
Did the moon landing actually occur?
Was there only one shooter of JFK?
Was Trevor Chappel following CIA orders to bowl underarm to destabilise Aus Nz relations and create a starting point for WWIII?

[Stickshift3000]

The 'plane loads of inbounds' are no longer the problem. It is easy for the authorities to identify, test and quarantine the limited number of arrivals from overseas.

The problem now is the unrelenting retards already loose in our community who ignore best advice from medical experts and run around infecting others. A token fine won't deter these idiots - in any case most would not be able to pay a fine. Cutting their dole should be an option, but the civil liberties mob would raise a stink at that idea. Mandatory testing for anyone posing a risk is also something much needed, and again opposed by the bleeding heart brigade.
Perhaps tracking cuffs like they fit to criminals out on parole in some places needs to become mandatory for anyone subject to a quarantine order, but again the civil libertarians would object.
Offenders need to be removed to somewhere out of the general populous like a big jail in the desert. Ground zero at Maralinga would be ideal.

Yep, that and numerous systemic breakdowns in critical government checks and protocols:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-08/nsw-coronavirus-breach-as-passengers-from-melbourne-not-screened/12433286

[Lookleft]

The assessment of the factual basis of any you tube presentation of "the facts" and "this is where the media gets it wrong" is that it is BS. That is relevant for either wing of the political parrot that is being spruiked. Too much of this crap gets "shared" and "liked" on social media without anyone just doing a quick search of the organisation behind the presentation. If you wouldn't put their leaflets in a letter box drop then don't spread it around on the internet.

[Section28- BE]

Article link here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-08/nsw-coronavirus-breach-as-passengers-from-melbourne-not-screened/12433286


Passengers on a flight from Melbourne to Sydney last night disembarked without being screened by NSW Health officials, in a major breach of the state's coronavirus protocols.
......

rgds
S28

[directimped]

Article link here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-08/nsw-coronavirus-breach-as-passengers-from-melbourne-not-screened/12433286



rgds
S28
Where are all the Dan haters now?

[Stickshift3000]

The assessment of the factual basis of any you tube presentation of "the facts" and "this is where the media gets it wrong" is that it is BS. That is relevant for either wing of the political parrot that is being spruiked. Too much of this crap gets "shared" and "liked" on social media without anyone just doing a quick search of the organisation behind the presentation. If you wouldn't put their leaflets in a letter box drop then don't spread it around on the internet.

We live in the age of misinformation..!

[Ragnor]

Surely everyone does not believe that we will be in this good position in two weeks time?! Have to be honest with ourselves. NSW should have closed the borders ASAP not given 72hrs notice. There is now 3 confirmed cases in ACT two traveled to ML one was a close contact those three went to markets went to Belconnen shopping centre who knows how many they could have affected. School holidays plenty Victorians travelling, COVID will run rampart again in two or three weeks.

[Stickshift3000]

Where are all the Dan haters now?

To ensure fairness the NSW government probably felt the need to treat these air arrivals as they did the arrivals from the Ruby Princess. They have a pretty good record for this type of thing.

[Chris2303]

Dan used a contractor, who then used a sub contractor, so there is no accountability. When there is no accountability, you have people who don’t care, you have people that have less training, and this leads the breaks in protocol.

There is accountability.
The subbies are accountable to the prime contractor
The prime contractor is responsible to the government department that hired them (and I'm picking that isn't Dan personally)
The Government department is responsible to their political masters

[DirectAnywhere]

Surely everyone does not believe that we will be in this good position in two weeks time?! Have to be honest with ourselves. NSW should have closed the borders ASAP not given 72hrs notice. There is now 3 confirmed cases in ACT two traveled to ML one was a close contact those three went to markets went to Belconnen shopping centre who knows how many they could have affected. School holidays plenty Victorians travelling, COVID will run rampart again in two or three weeks.

I suspect that Queensland will announce a delay to its border opening to NSW for another few weeks. I think there’s real concern in NSW Health that potentially infected travellers have had unrestricted access to NSW. It’s going to be a lot harder to put this genie back in the bottle than in March.

[Buster Hyman]

Where are all the Dan haters now?
They're in lockdown.:hmm:

[wheels_down]

Dan needs a story to divert some attention away from his blunders.

Oh here comes the next biggy, top job Jetstar!

[Ragnor]

[QUOTE=

Oh here comes the next biggy, top job Jetstar![/QUOTE]

Yeah good one mate you’re a real specimen. It’s NSW health and AFP to stop and screen passengers entering from ML.

[currawong]

Yeah good one mate you’re a real specimen. It’s NSW health and AFP to stop and screen passengers entering from ML.

Not how it is being reported...

"An email from Sydney Airport leaked to the ABC claims Jetstar breached NSW Government health orders by allowing travellers on flight JQ520, which landed at 6:53pm, to get off without being checked."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-08/nsw-coronavirus-breach-as-passengers-from-melbourne-not-screened/12433286

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/passengers-from-melbourne-leave-sydney-airport-without-covid-screening-20200708-p55a68.html

https://7news.com.au/travel/coronavirus/jetstar-flight-from-melbourne-allowed-to-disembark-at-sydney-airport-without-covid-screening-c-1153369

[wheels_down]

Yeah good one mate you’re a real specimen. It’s NSW health and AFP to stop and screen passengers entering from ML.

Garbage

As part of the procedure, Jetstar handover the manifest and passengers to the Health Department at the gate.

The did not. They just let them all off. They managed to get about two thirds of them back by chasing after them all.

Nine said health officials and authorities were grilling Jetstar staff at the gate soon after on why they did not follow instructions.

[Green.Dot]

I think you also have to think about the mental capacity of those who believe it.

Hopefully the $3 million enquiry will tell all. But what we do know is the Victorian Government used sh*te IQ security for hotel quarantine.

This is the match that has lit up the bushfire. COVID-19 is wild again just when we were winning the fight (in Australia at least).

If you are happy to live with the Australian economy going into a full depression, lose your job with more redundancies on the cards and watch your friends & family not able to work in other sectors as a direct result of this then you are a more forgiving person than me.

[Green.Dot]

An MPs view on it for those who didn’t like the guy in the other video...

https://www.2gb.com/that-incompetent-fool-mp-calls-for-daniel-andrews-sacking-as-melbourne-locks-down/

[Bodie1]

Doesn't matter the source, they'll find a problem with it.

The message is the same.

[andrewr]

The problem now is the unrelenting retards already loose in our community who ignore best advice from medical experts and run around infecting others.

Pilots are not an exception. I know pilots who went flying during the first lock down when they were not supposed to be leaving their homes. A couple of weeks ago there was a fly-in in Victoria when gatherings were supposed to be limited to 10 people.

Yesterday someone was telling me that the lockdown does not apply to recreational flying. Everyone has an excuse why the rules should not apply to them.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Pilots are not an exception. I know pilots who went flying during the first lock down when they were not supposed to be leaving their homes. A couple of weeks ago there was a fly-in in Victoria when gatherings were supposed to be limited to 10 people.

Yesterday someone was telling me that the lockdown does not apply to recreational flying. Everyone has an excuse why the rules should not apply to them.

the lockdown absolutely applies to recreational flying.

Its not one of the 4 reasons to leave your home is it? (Supplies, education, medical, giving care).

the authorities could be even stricter this lock down if you take off from a Melbourne metro aeridrome and fly to ththe country

[ozbiggles]

Green dot, I’m not sure what you are using my quote for? Mine was in regards to freaks on YouTube and their followers. Nothing to do with the SNAFU with the hotel guards in Victoria. That one speaks for itself. There’s seems to be in the Victorian Government culture a reluctance to use defence assets. No surprise given the deputy chief medical officers social views. They are taking medical advice from someone who can’t even control herself on Twitter. Unfortunately the Victorian situation although not unexpected has set the aviation cause back a number of months. I think however that is more to do with the nature of the virus and could happen in any of the states.

[andrewr]

the lockdown absolutely applies to recreational flying.

Yes, I was suggesting that as pilots we need to look at ourselves and our fellow pilots.

Another example is Gordon Rich-Phillips, who was flying around the state during the first lockdown and giving pilots a bad name. A reminder that with ADSB everyone can see who you are and where you go. (Also probably Avplan and OzRunways if you use the traffic features.)

[Chronic Snoozer]

Apparently the McG hard border is as porous as chicken wire.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/perth-had-14-flights-arrive-from-melbourne-this-week-but-authorities-won-t-say-how-many-were-on-board-20200708-p55a8s.html

[Green.Dot]

Green dot, I’m not sure what you are using my quote for? Mine was in regards to freaks on YouTube and their followers.

Apologies if I misunderstood mate, I thought you were questioning the content of the video 👍

[Bodie1]

Unfortunately the Victorian situation although not unexpected has set the aviation cause back a number of months.

Months? Maybe a year or two. Victoria's share of Australian GDP is about 25% plus the effect it has on other states GDP by not functioning. It's not simply a case of it's residents having another 6 weeks at home, it's cancellation of business, business confidence, is it going to happen again? What business would ramp back up to have this bull**** happen again. The airline industry is an immediate casualty of this mess. For others it will be a slow burn, others still, immediate. Plus the unseen effects, mental health etc.

He is incompetent and has now cost the economy billions.

[wheels_down]

Jetstar had fairly solid capacity plans from July onwards so that is all gone now. Bulk of it cycles through Victoria. Essentially it pushes them back 4 months. That’s another half a Billon dollar plus burden for the QF group.

I wouldn’t expect Melbourne to Queensland until November. There will be a fairly long monitoring period once the lockdown is over to see if Victoria can manage. Anastasia will be in no hurry to open her state up to Victoria as seen previously.

Any NSW spike and you can forget going anywhere this year.

[Green.Dot]

https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/failure-after-failure-for-tough-talking-andrews-20200705-p5596l

[Turnleft080]

Coronavirus Cases: 8,886
Deaths: 106
Recovered: 7,487

ACTIVE CASES
1,293
Currently Infected Patients
1,285 (99%)
in Mild Condition

8 (1%)
Serious or Criticalfrom worldometers.

They are the present numbers. Check out the recoveries. Not a bad ratio. This is got to be the final 6 weeks. No more extensions.
If we flatten the curve again well and good. If we don't then health officials have got to go herd immunity. Healthy people who
catch it have a 99% of recovery. Sick people who catch it have a 95% of recovery. Those with high lung infections i.e. lung cancer,
emphysema, COPD, need to be locked down. Those 106 unfortunate deaths 95% of them had those chronic conditions.
Those percentages are rough figures from the CDC which have the experts.
Which way will the government go. Which way do you want to go with this.

[Ragnor]

Jetstar had fairly solid capacity plans from July onwards so that is all gone now. Bulk of it cycles through Victoria. Essentially it pushes them back 4 months. That’s another half a Billon dollar plus burden for the QF group.

You base this on what facts? I understand capacity into and out of Victoria is affected, QLD NSW and other states showing strong demand loads have been over 175 to sold out everywhere I’ve been. 4 months is a made up figure unless you have facts stating otherwise if so please share. How is it a burden to QANTAS group? I feel you’re comments are coming from a emotional and personal perspective.

[Green.Dot]

How is it a burden to QANTAS group? I feel you’re comments are coming from a emotional and personal perspective.

Unless a miracle happens over the next 6 weeks in Victoria I’d say wheels_down is close the money. The exact monetary figure is anyone’s guess but it will be substantial.

It doesn’t matter what state you live in, consumer confidence nationally will fall following the Vic spikes.

[Ragnor]

He/She maybe right, I’m sure QF group will not spend 1 cent more than it has to on any part of the group unless it’s to buy Cobham, If JQ is a burden I’m sure they won’t let it be as I’m sure if any part of QANTAS mainline is a burden it will go also. No one is safe at the moment.

[Green.Dot]

He/She maybe right, I’m sure QF group will not spend 1 cent more than it has to on any part of the group unless it’s to buy Cobham, If JQ is a burden I’m sure they won’t let it be as I’m sure if any part of QANTAS mainline is a burden it will go also. No one is safe at the moment.

I don’t think wheels_down was targeting JQ. Completely agree with the above.

[zanthrus]

Let the 1% die. If they don’t then great. Move along nothing to see here. Reopen everything in the economy and let’s get on with life. This lockdown will do more damage to health than the disease. Totally over this farce now.

[ozbiggles]

You are quoting figures from Australia.
If you want to let it rip (thanks for volunteering your old folks and probably yourGP as tribute) then do the figures for the American figures or that now fallen star of Sweden who’s chief epidemiologist now admits he got it wrong.
The Victorian figures now are trending worse then when all this started so the stats for your argument are probably shortly to be outdated,

Anyway this may be the least of our issues as we poke China in the eye over mini China.

[exfocx]

Apparently the McG hard border is as porous as chicken wire.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/perth-had-14-flights-arrive-from-melbourne-this-week-but-authorities-won-t-say-how-many-were-on-board-20200708-p55a8s.html

Maybe you should look up the what's allowed and what isn't, the border closure has never been a hard closure. Flights between the states and from OS have been allowed from day one, as has vehicle traffic and there are processes in place to handle it. To call WA's border closure porous is ignorant.

[wheels_down]

You base this on what facts? I understand capacity into and out of Victoria is affected, QLD NSW and other states showing strong demand loads have been over 175 to sold out everywhere I’ve been. 4 months is a made up figure unless you have facts stating otherwise if so please share. How is it a burden to QANTAS group? I feel you’re comments are coming from a emotional and personal perspective.

It’s been based on no more outbreaks after September. Post Melbourne lockdown from September Anastasia won’t be opening the gates immediately. That’s a fact. Victoria won’t be opening up immediately also. It’s a staged reopening as seen last month. Dan Andrews will be as cautious as ever, he can’t afford another blunder on reopening otherwise he is gone. Job Keeper ends also soon after. There will be a period of 4-8 weeks of monitoring the numbers soon after opening. If they manage to keep a lid on it then it’s now November and we can start opening up Tourism.

The burden for any airline especially QF and
VA is the prolonged cash burn. Jetstar had significant plans in capacity for the next half out of Melbourne. Melbourne is a large Jetstar base. Alan and Gareth were fairly bullish in regards to domestic capacity in the next half. They had to, no choice, need to reduce that cash burn. Another 4 months of standstill will just drag that cash burn on and on. Not much opportunity to reduce it.

You just hope there isn’t an outbreak in NSW. I’m not overly confident Melbourne can keep a lid on it either after September.

Essentially we need to wait until Mid to Late September to see how Melbourne goes during round 2 in order to work out where we go next.

[SOPS]

WA borders just got a lot tighter. Both national and international. People who were coming from Victoria to work on the mines and things like that.. no longer can. If you have been in Victoria in the last 14 days.. you are no longer allowed to come into WA, no matter what reason you have. The only exception are transport and freight workers. More to come ...

[directimped]

Let the 1% die. If they don’t then great. Move along nothing to see here. Reopen everything in the economy and let’s get on with life. This lockdown will do more damage to health than the disease. Totally over this farce now.
So 2 or 300,000 dead (in Australia) but more likely over a million in ICU. The hospitals will be completely overwhelmed and they will be digging mass graves like they did in New York. That means if your car or plane crashes then no hospital bed for you sorry, you can die on the street.

Sounds nice to me, I vote you first

[Bodie1]

So 2 or 300,000 dead (in Australia) but more likely over a million in ICU. The hospitals will be completely overwhelmed and they will be digging mass graves like they did in New York. That means if your car or plane crashes then no hospital bed for you sorry, you can die on the street.

Hysterical, demented garbage. You should start a youtube channel, or apply for a news dot com gig.

[Stickshift3000]

If you have been in Victoria in the last 14 days.. you are no longer allowed to come into WA, no matter what reason you have. The only exception are transport and freight workers.

So... you still can come into WA from Vic with the right reason?

[brokenagain]

Its interesting looking at Sweden’s well publicised figures. Both total cases and deaths on a significant decline without harsh lockdowns. I wonder if in years to come we’ll look at their solution as better overall in the long term? Let it run its course rather than rolling lockdowns for who knows how long.

Worldometer Sweden Coronavirus Cases (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/)

[directimped]

Hysterical, demented garbage. You should start a youtube channel, or apply for a news dot com gig.

1% of the Australian population is 250,000. It should be pretty obvious that not everybody dies from the virus, in fact most recover but some end up in ICU. Australia has ~2500 ICU beds (as of March, could be more now). Pretty simple maths, right?

Or are you one of these "it's all a hoax!" people? We're shutting down society for fun or because "comrade dan" is a closet commie and wants to steal our liberties ? ...........

What bull**** are you going to come up with next?

[Bodie1]

Hoax? Where do you draw that conclusion? Who said it was a hoax? Apart from a few of Chairman Dan's comrades.

What bull**** are you going to come up with next?

Can't be any worse than the hysterical bull**** you're coming up with.

[Alice Kiwican]

WA borders just got a lot tighter. Both national and international. People who were coming from Victoria to work on the mines and things like that.. no longer can. If you have been in Victoria in the last 14 days.. you are no longer allowed to come into WA, no matter what reason you have. The only exception are transport and freight workers. More to come ...

Except for major AFL clubs it seems! Hmmm.....

[SOPS]

Except for major AFL clubs it seems! Hmmm.....
Apparently because all AFL clubs are now out of Victoria.

[aviation_enthus]

If you want to let it rip (thanks for volunteering your old folks and probably yourGP as tribute) then do the figures for the American figures or that now fallen star of Sweden who’s chief epidemiologist now admits he got it wrong.

No and No.

The Swedish government is having a review to see what can be done BETTER now they’re past the worst of it. NOT because they think they’ve done the wrong thing.

Like any sensible government should after this is over.

The Swedish mortality rate is now back to average. The UK mortality rate is also back to average.
There are studies now suggesting the UK mortality rate may actually be lower for the next 1-5 years because COVID brought some deaths forward.

Nobody likes losing their loved ones. I’m not about to volunteer mine either. But the longer this goes on, the better the information available gets.

No this is not the Flu.
But neither is it SARS or MERS.
Lets try to stick to some facts instead of the worst case ‘what if’ that’s always presented by most of the media.

[neville_nobody]

Its interesting looking at Sweden’s well publicised figures. Both total cases and deaths on a significant decline without harsh lockdowns. I wonder if in years to come we’ll look at their solution as better overall in the long term? Let it run its course rather than rolling lockdowns for who knows how long.

Taiwan are the country that have picked the right path through this. They have one of the lowest death rates per million and haven't blown up their economy or turned it into a Police State. Unfortunately though the whole world isscared of China so Taiwan's success has been downplayed or ignored.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Taiwan are the country that have picked the right path through this. They have one of the lowest death rates per million and haven't blown up their economy or turned it into a Police State.

Hong Kong also, masks are common place there, seems to be key to stopping the spread of the virus

[Chronic Snoozer]

Maybe you should look up the what's allowed and what isn't, the border closure has never been a hard closure. Flights between the states and from OS have been allowed from day one, as has vehicle traffic and there are processes in place to handle it. To call WA's border closure porous is ignorant.

Maybe you should have a word. "West Australian Premier Mark McGowan has defended the state's hard border amid a spike in coronavirus cases in Victoria."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-21/wa-coronavirus-update-sunday/12377760

If it wasn't porous then why the need to tighten entry even further?

[ozbiggles]

No and No.

The Swedish government is having a review to see what can be done BETTER now they’re past the worst of it. NOT because they think they’ve done the wrong thing.

Like any sensible government should after this is over.

The Swedish mortality rate is now back to average. The UK mortality rate is also back to average.
There are studies now suggesting the UK mortality rate may actually be lower for the next 1-5 years because COVID brought some deaths forward.

Nobody likes losing their loved ones. I’m not about to volunteer mine either. But the longer this goes on, the better the information available gets.

No this is not the Flu.
But neither is it SARS or MERS.
Lets try to stick to some facts instead of the worst case ‘what if’ that’s always presented by most of the media.


ok, so he didn’t say this then?

Sweden's top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight COVID-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.

"If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done," Anders Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish Radio.

But you are right when you say it is not SARS or MERS
Covid has killed a bucket Load more people than they have...And that’s the facts Jack.

[Green.Dot]

And I’m sure 99.999% of Taiwanese people can follow rules. If they don’t there are clear consequences. Meanwhile in Australia...

[ozbiggles]

And just to prove it is not only the yobbos who can’t follow the rules, check out the crew selfie and story in this one.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-09/lone-melbourne-to-sunshine-coast-passenger-in-hotel-quarantine/12437938?utm_source=abc_news&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_content=mail&utm_campaign=abc_news

[aviation_enthus]

"If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done," Anders Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish Radio.

Ok well I read his comments as saying there’s a better way if they encountered it again. I’ll point out he never specifically said ‘I was wrong’ but he did say ‘somewhere in between’ Sweden and the rest of the world. Not totally disregarding their approach or the rest of world.

Again, any decent government could make the same comment:
“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today”
We would do.... ???

My point with COVID vs SARS/MERS is the average mortality. If you want to go for total deaths, a bad flu season still kills more people. I’m arguing that the overbearing response of a lot of countries will not work long term. There will have to be some sort of risk vs reward discussion to decide what each individual country want. That depends on how bad they’ve got it IE; every response will be different.

[Sunfish]

For the morons who think “let the 1% die”, etc. The problem children, is that the mechanics of a pandemic will see the hospitals completely overwhelmed. It’s not about the. number of deaths it’s about the RATE OF CASES PRESENTING. The entire medical system gets overwhelmed and collapses. Think 100,000 people all trying to get medical attention at once at one hospital.

That means you break a leg, you die. Difficult birth you die. Heart attack you die. accident you die. There will be no medical treatment available at a all for anything. No pharmacies either. Your baby gets sick, it dies.

Under those conditions the economy stops. People don’t go to work. Food doesn’t get delivered. Power generation stops. Petrol stations close. Supermarkets can’t open. Panic, Riots, looting, crime collapse. That is what happens. You had a tiny taste a few months ago.

That is why the doctors talk about smoothing the curve, blunting the peak, etc.

You should be aware that Governments have been very carefully monitoring stuff like food and energy supplies for this reason.

[currawong]

Why are people still spruiking Sweden as an example? It has one of the highest Covid 19 fatality rates in the world.(adjusted for population, of course)

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million

Why are people still spruiking the Swedish economy? It has tanked there like everywhere else.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html

Why are people still spruiking herd immunity? Research is showing it to be a non starter, without a vaccine at least.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/vaccine-reach-herd-immunity-scientists/story?id=71662733

[Angle of Attack]

Agreed Sunfish, let the 1% die would result in a spike of probably close to 10% higher deaths than usual due to all other problems unable to be treated due to no hospital capacity. So that 250000 could turn into one or 2 million deaths over an un specified period depending on the time frame of COVID patients presenting, probably a couple of years.
However on the flip side stop start lockdowns will destroy people’s livelihood and increase deaths due to other causes too. This virus will keep doing this and outbreak constantly.... at some point I think a tactic of protecting the vulnerable and letting it run through the general population may be the only option in the future, Vaccine? Haha right, no effective one will ever appear, this virus is here for good.

As for international flying if we persist with lockdowns after each outbreak (which are going to occur again and again) forget 1 year, it could stretch out to 3-5 years until meaningful travel becomes an option.

[Bend alot]

Its interesting looking at Sweden’s well publicised figures. Both total cases and deaths on a significant decline without harsh lockdowns. I wonder if in years to come we’ll look at their solution as better overall in the long term? Let it run its course rather than rolling lockdowns for who knows how long.

Worldometer Sweden Coronavirus Cases (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/)
Yes very interesting! look at what they count!!!!!!

It is only the city!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Numbers there are very very poor - now count the rural (no figures available), but from memory the do count aged care in the "official numbers" that other countries do not.

[Jeps]

As for international flying if we persist with lockdowns after each outbreak (which are going to occur again and again) forget 1 year, it could stretch out to 3-5 years until meaningful travel becomes an option.

I agree. What airlines will be around after that period of time to do the flying? The Air Force?

[Slezy9]

And just to prove it is not only the yobbos who can’t follow the rules, check out the crew selfie and story in this one.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-09/lone-melbourne-to-sunshine-coast-passenger-in-hotel-quarantine/12437938?utm_source=abc_news&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_content=mail&utm_campaign=abc_news

Fark me. How dumb can you be?? Do Jetstar not have procedures in place to minimise the risk of spread?? We are not allowed out of the cockpit while passengers are boarding or disembarking.

[compressor stall]

Fark me. How dumb can you be?? Do Jetstar not have procedures in place to minimise the risk of spread?? We are not allowed out of the cockpit while passengers are boarding or disembarking.

Got to agree. Very very stupid. And totally contrary to Government Health advice to Airline Operators.

Should the pax (or a crew member) subsequently test positive, it could be very awkward.

[Turnleft080]

It's probably a government sponsored flight would it be more economical to put the 5 pax on one flight instead of two.

[vne165]

+1 Sunfish, well said. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[No Idea Either]

Sunfish, those effects have been explained again....and again....and again.........but some don’t seem to see the correlation. It’s ‘I’m alright jack‘ until you stub your toe/get bitten by a mozzie, it gets infected and you DIE because you couldn’t get the right antibiotics because you couldn’t get in to see a doctor or into a pharmacy. Turning up at an emergency department won’t help either.....’you are number 543 in the queue, we’ll get to you when we can.’ 24hrs later you’re dead from sepsis. Pretty simple concept really🥺🥺🥺🥺
Alarmist? Maybe but that is the fundamental ‘flattening the curve‘ reasoning.

[Dewa_Gede_70]

Easy.....Stay the FCUK HOME 🤬🤬🤬🤬

[Green.Dot]

And use the military for hotel security

[Turnleft080]

Forget masks and face shields. Why doesn't Dan's government issue NASA space suits with HEPA filters.
They would be cheaper than the deficit. The 6 weeks would be reduced to 3 and the curve flattened.
In fact it would be eradicated. Crazy maybe.

[Green.Dot]

288 cases in Victoria today. Well done Dan. You have screwed Oz

[directimped]

For the morons who think “let the 1% die”, etc. The problem children, is that the mechanics of a pandemic will see the hospitals completely overwhelmed. It’s not about the. number of deaths it’s about the RATE OF CASES PRESENTING. The entire medical system gets overwhelmed and collapses. Think 100,000 people all trying to get medical attention at once at one hospital.

That means you break a leg, you die. Difficult birth you die. Heart attack you die. accident you die. There will be no medical treatment available at a all for anything. No pharmacies either. Your baby gets sick, it dies.

Under those conditions the economy stops. People don’t go to work. Food doesn’t get delivered. Power generation stops. Petrol stations close. Supermarkets can’t open. Panic, Riots, looting, crime collapse. That is what happens. You had a tiny taste a few months ago.

That is why the doctors talk about smoothing the curve, blunting the peak, etc.

You should be aware that Governments have been very carefully monitoring stuff like food and energy supplies for this reason.
I think that some people on this forum are not smart enough to understand this simple concept. It's easier to claim covid is a hoax or dan is a commie who wants to steal everyone's civil liberties :rolleyes:

[Turnleft080]

POSITIVE TESTS IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS:
June 26 – 30
June 27 – 41
June 28 – 49
June 29 – 75
June 30 – 64
July 1 – 73
July 2 – 77
July 3 – 66
July 4 – 108
July 5 – 74
July 6 – 127
July 7 – 191
July 8 – 134
July 9 – 165
TODAY – 288

So thats 1562 cases in 2 weeks. If those 1562 are in reasonable good health then they will not die. They may get sick though they will not die.
Remember recovery rates are in the high 90% range.
We have had 4 deaths in 48 days Australia wide. VIC only 2 in the last 48 days and those deaths did have underlining conditions.
The numbers are fact. It looks like Dan wants total eradication.
It will be interesting to see what the numbers are in 2 weeks. It looks like more cases, I hope no deaths.
That could indicate the virus is weakening by herd immunity.
Stay healthy people.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

POSITIVE TESTS IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS:
June 26 – 30
June 27 – 41
June 28 – 49
June 29 – 75
June 30 – 64
July 1 – 73
July 2 – 77
July 3 – 66
July 4 – 108
July 5 – 74
July 6 – 127
July 7 – 191
July 8 – 134
July 9 – 165
TODAY – 288

So thats 1562 cases in 2 weeks. If those 1562 are in reasonable good health then they will not die. They may get sick though they will not die.
Remember recovery rates are in the high 90% range.
We have had 4 deaths in 48 days Australia wide. VIC only 2 in the last 48 days and those deaths did have underlining conditions.
The numbers are fact. It looks like Dan wants total eradication.
It will be interesting to see what the numbers are in 2 weeks. It looks like more cases, I hope no deaths.
That could indicate the virus is weakening by herd immunity.
Stay healthy people.

theres a lag of 1-2 weeks for deaths, as those diagnosed with COVID deteriorate.

Heard imunity reauires 60% of the community to have been infected, so far Australia wide 0.032% have been infected, so I believe that theory is flawed.

There is also no evidence that the virus has mutated to be one any more or less infectious, direst quote from Prof Brett Sutton in today’s briefing.

[compressor stall]

So thats 1562 cases in 2 weeks. If those 1562 are in reasonable good health then they will not die. They may get sick though they will not die.
Remember recovery rates are in the high 90% range.
We have had 4 deaths in 48 days Australia wide. VIC only 2 in the last 48 days and those deaths did have underlining conditions.
The numbers are fact. It looks like Dan wants total eradication.
It will be interesting to see what the numbers are in 2 weeks. It looks like more cases, I hope no deaths.
That could indicate the virus is weakening by herd immunity.
Stay healthy people.
The virus is not weakening through herd immunity. There is some evidence that the really hard hit poor areas of NY have antibodies in the 60+% range which is starting to get to the herd immunity zone. However the wealthier (less pigmented) areas of NY it's barely in double figures. Second wave territory.

It's not just Dan that wants eradication. It's the country. Every other state (and NZ) is expecting it too, and has almost achieved it.

Notable that a full review of procedures in national quarantining of inbound returning travellers has been formally announced, as well as the cutback to the numbers. Respective governments are very aware that there are many weak links in the quarantine chain - and the security guards were the weakest.

[LapSap]

Don’t look now, but.....

‘Unknown pneumonia’ deadlier than coronavirus sweeping Kazakhstan, Chinese embassy warns
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3092563/chinese-embassy-warns-deadly-unknown-pneumonia-kazakhstan

[compressor stall]

Don’t look now, but.....

‘Unknown pneumonia’ deadlier than coronavirus sweeping Kazakhstan, Chinese embassy warns
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3092563/chinese-embassy-warns-deadly-unknown-pneumonia-kazakhstan
That's been disputed by the Kazahks...

[Turnleft080]

Don’t look now, but.....

‘Unknown pneumonia’ deadlier than coronavirus sweeping Kazakhstan, Chinese embassy warns
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3092563/chinese-embassy-warns-deadly-unknown-pneumonia-kazakhstan

Well they can have it. Do want chips with that.

[currawong]

Don’t look now, but.....

‘Unknown pneumonia’ deadlier than coronavirus sweeping Kazakhstan, Chinese embassy warns
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3092563/chinese-embassy-warns-deadly-unknown-pneumonia-kazakhstan

"In response to these reports, the Ministry of Health of the Republic of Kazakhstan officially declares that this information does not correspond to reality," the statement read.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/10/asia/kazakhstan-pneumonia-intl-hnk-scli-scn/index.html

[Turnleft080]

Oxford epidemiologist pushes herd immunity. article in THE AUSTRALIAN 8th July. by Jacquelin Magnay

One of the worlds top epidemiologists has urged Australia to abandon a lockdown strategy against Coronavirus and look to the Swedish model
of developing herd immunity. Sanetra Gupta, professor of theoretical epidemiology in the department of zoology at the University of Oxford, says
Australia is adopting a selfish and selfish-congratulatory approach which is misguided and will have a negative long-term consequence and urged
the country to look at the latest evidence to decide it's tactics. She said the Australian government changed its approach and let the virus-which 80-90%
of the population will only get asymptotically spread naturally, with intense protections for those most vulnerable, it would in the long term help protect all
of the Australians from future viral threats and also avoid the most damaging short term economic impacts for the underprivileged.

The most recent scientific research shows that between 30-80% of the population has natural immunity to coronavirus because the body's T-cells
recognise the threat from having had other cold and flu viruses. Scientists believe having coronavirus causes people's immune systems to develop antibodies
and T-cell responses to future viruses. Professor Gupta said: " One of the reasons why I'm not worried about this virus is a running theme in research work
is how previous exposure to viruses protects you from incoming threats." She warned that suppression of the virus did not work and lockdown simply
resulted in some parts the population being more exposed to the virus when it next flared up. She said,"There is no way lockdown can eliminate the virus
and so it's not at all surprising once you lift lockdown in areas it will flare up again. That is what we are seeing in southern USA, and in Australia.
In places where it has already swept through, a proportion of people are immune and you are not seeing it come back."
She said instead of lockdowns governments should focus energies on shielding the elderly and those with comorbidities to protect them as much as possible.
Professor Gupta said countries that had closed off borders were not ensuring populations remained exposed to the virus at some point, but long term it was unsustainable.
"You can only lock down for so lock down unless you choose to be in isolation for eternity so that's not a good solution," she said.
She said Australia may think it is an effective short-term strategy but there are long term consequences. "Being self-congratulatory,'we have kept it out', is misplaced.
Professor Gupta said Sweden's measured social-distancing approach had offered greater protections for the entire region because Scandinavia now had high levels of immunity.
Professor Gupta said Swedes "have done quite well in terms of deaths". She said Denmark and Norway, which locked down and have had lower deaths rates, may yet find next wave difficult.


This now begs the question. Dan will flatten the curve, cases will slide down to a few after 6 weeks. Then the borders open, stage 3 abandoned
until another cluster breakout and hey presto we go into another 6 week lockdown. Victorians won't take that. The above article has to come into play.

[Bend alot]

Sweden has a fairly good death rate when compared to Belgium - other than that it is a long bow.

[Xeptu]

This theory was debunked weeks ago. The latest research reports blood clots in recovered patients in multiple organs and severe blood clotting in the deceased ones. That most likely points to a longer term ticking time bomb.

[currawong]

Oxford epidemiologist pushes herd immunity. article in THE AUSTRALIAN 8th July. by Jacquelin Magnay

One of the worlds top epidemiologists has urged Australia to abandon a lockdown strategy against Coronavirus and look to the Swedish model
of developing herd immunity. Sanetra Gupta, professor of theoretical epidemiology in the department of zoology at the University of Oxford, says
Australia is adopting a selfish and selfish-congratulatory approach which is misguided and will have a negative long-term consequence and urged
the country to look at the latest evidence to decide it's tactics. She said the Australian government changed its approach and let the virus-which 80-90%
of the population will only get asymptotically spread naturally, with intense protections for those most vulnerable, it would in the long term help protect all
of the Australians from future viral threats and also avoid the most damaging short term economic impacts for the underprivileged.

The most recent scientific research shows that between 30-80% of the population has natural immunity to coronavirus because the body's T-cells
recognise the threat from having had other cold and flu viruses. Scientists believe having coronavirus causes people's immune systems to develop antibodies
and T-cell responses to future viruses. Professor Gupta said: " One of the reasons why I'm not worried about this virus is a running theme in research work
is how previous exposure to viruses protects you from incoming threats." She warned that suppression of the virus did not work and lockdown simply
resulted in some parts the population being more exposed to the virus when it next flared up. She said,"There is no way lockdown can eliminate the virus
and so it's not at all surprising once you lift lockdown in areas it will flare up again. That is what we are seeing in southern USA, and in Australia.
In places where it has already swept through, a proportion of people are immune and you are not seeing it come back."
She said instead of lockdowns governments should focus energies on shielding the elderly and those with comorbidities to protect them as much as possible.
Professor Gupta said countries that had closed off borders were not ensuring populations remained exposed to the virus at some point, but long term it was unsustainable.
"You can only lock down for so lock down unless you choose to be in isolation for eternity so that's not a good solution," she said.
She said Australia may think it is an effective short-term strategy but there are long term consequences. "Being self-congratulatory,'we have kept it out', is misplaced.
Professor Gupta said Sweden's measured social-distancing approach had offered greater protections for the entire region because Scandinavia now had high levels of immunity.
Professor Gupta said Swedes "have done quite well in terms of deaths". She said Denmark and Norway, which locked down and have had lower deaths rates, may yet find next wave difficult.


This now begs the question. Dan will flatten the curve, cases will slide down to a few after 6 weeks. Then the borders open, stage 3 abandoned
until another cluster breakout and hey presto we go into another 6 week lockdown. Victorians won't take that. The above article has to come into play.

"A new study from China shows that antibodies can disappear in two to three months."

https://abcnews.go.com/US/vaccine-reach-herd-immunity-scientists/story?id=71662733

[layman]

Bend alot

Belgium is counting differently to most countries

”Belgian officials say they are counting in a way that no other country in the world is currently doing: counting deaths in hospitals and care homes, but including deaths in care homes that are suspected, not confirmed, as Covid-19 cases”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52491210

Compared to some other countries that have only been counting confirmed cases and still
others that were not counting deaths in aged care.

Probably still too early to be reliable, but the ‘excess deaths / funerals’ is probably going to be the most reliable indicator of how countries / states have fared.

[currawong]

Bend alot

Belgium is counting differently to most countries

”Belgian officials say they are counting in a way that no other country in the world is currently doing: counting deaths in hospitals and care homes, but including deaths in care homes that are suspected, not confirmed, as Covid-19 cases”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52491210

Compared to some other countries that have only been counting confirmed cases and still
others that were not counting deaths in aged care.

Probably still too early to be reliable, but the ‘excess deaths / funerals’ is probably going to be the most reliable indicator of how countries / states have fared.

Ask and ye shall receive...

Everything above the dotted line is excess, everything below was going anyway.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

[layman]

currawong

Many thanks. I’ve seen snippets of this information elsewhere but not such wide-ranging summary.

The ‘whole-of-world’ report in 5(?) years time will make for sobering reading.

[currawong]

layman,

Never happen sorry. From Our World in Data -

"Excess mortality is unfortunately available for very few countries, and because the required data from previous years is lacking this will continue to be the case. When the goal is to monitor a global pandemic then this is a major limitation of this metric."

[Green.Dot]

Re: New York this is a good article.

https://nypost.com/2020/07/10/herd-immunity-played-no-role-in-decreasing-nyc-covid-19-cases-doctor/

they acknowledge that herd immunity was not a player but the city is now dealing with it to some extent through people’s changed behaviours.

NY deaths... case numbers paint a similar trend...


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x657/f5520494_5656_496d_96a0_a9a85425dc15_a7164c817cbd447357236ce f9809ef28335fadfe.jpeg


Before you shoot me down- no I don’t think we should “let it rip” but I have grave concerns for our kids economic future should we decide to do another 59 lockdowns on the off chance a vaccine is successful.

Strong people I know who have never had mental health issues are feeling the pinch with no direction from the government other than to go in to hiding for the foreseeable future.

[layman]

currawong

Thanks ... my hope then becomes that even with limited data, the experts in epidemiology & statistics being able to develop ‘sensible’ analysis & suggestions for future directions.

Green.Dot

Health, economics & politics - what a wicked problem the world is (we are!) dealing with.

Open up, infections grow, health system starts to struggle, business confidence declines.

Lock down & infections decline, health systems take a breather, but business activity (& jobs) also decline.

Lots of pain for lots of people whichever direction is taken.

[ampclamp]

The thrust of this thread has aged like prawns in the summer sun.

The Victorian experience highlights how quickly this can get away and how the barriers go back up again..

[Turnleft080]

So much for closing the VIC/NSW border. A little cluster or spot fire has jumped the fence to Liverpool/Campbelltown.
What might that mean? Lockdown 1 failed because we are now into week 1 of 6 of lockdown 2. Wether we go stage 3 or
rumour has it stage 4 tomorrow, Dan's government has 5 weeks to flatten the curve again. May well he do that.
Everything opens up again like a flower, and it just needs another indiscretion, numbers go up again. Lockdown 2 failed.
A lockdown 3 is economically out of the question. The people will have a say on that. Only one way to go.

[SHVC]

Well I agree, lockdown has failed. Gladys was doing a great job until closing the border, that should of been instant only allowing resident to return to home but she gave notice and every COVID carrier and their dog was allowed to race across.

QLD will close to NSW by weeks end SA extending their close to NSW/ACT now Aviation and many other industry’s face a very different outlook.

[normanton]

As soon as one case appears in QLD from NSW/VIC the borders will close. Nightmare.

[wheels_down]

As soon as one case appears in QLD from NSW/VIC the borders will close. Nightmare.
I don’t think Anastasia will even wait for one case. Election looming she will isolate herself from the rest of the states before the virus jumps across and will probably win her an election while the others down south lose control.

Interesting few days ahead.

[zanthrus]

Open up, get herd immunity make economy prosper. let the sickest die, move on. Lock down is clearly not working and the "cure" does more damage than the disease.

[SHVC]

Open up, get herd immunity make economy prosper. let the sickest die, move on. Lock down is clearly not working and the "cure" does more damage than the disease.

Until your wife, your child your mother or father dies from it. Then you still happy with herd immunity which is going just great in Sweden....

[wheels_down]

They are finding blood clots in many recovered patients. Herd Immunity’s days have long sailed.

Could every recovered person suffer medium to long term ramifications? Nobody knows, I sure wouldn’t want to be apart of that experiment.

Top Global doctors are still saying there just is not enough data on the virus yet and what it does to the body. It’s no Influenza.

[Bend alot]

Open up, get herd immunity make economy prosper. let the sickest die, move on. Lock down is clearly not working and the "cure" does more damage than the disease.
Any facts on your term "herd immunity" making economy prosper?

Is like the statement of Covid and airline passenger never been infected in flight - sounds good for an argument, but utter rubbish in reality.

Just not the data around for either statement to be proven or disproved.

$10 a pax has contracted Covid - 19 on a flight, and 5 cents herd immunity is the answer is my current bet.

[Buster Hyman]

They are finding blood clots in many recovered patients.
Has the US stockpiled Warfarin yet?:hmm:

[aviation_enthus]

With the new outbreaks in Victoria it’s worth asking ‘the viewers at home’...

What is Australia’s strategy with COVID??

To be honest I’m not sure if it’s eradication or suppression.....

Once upon a time the ‘flatten the curve’ campaign was followed by messages from various politicians about giving the health system time to prepare and reduce the pressure on ICU beds.

I remember reading back when the cases dropped off that Victoria alone had created (or planned) 4000 new ICU beds to cope with the predicted outbreak. What happened to all those beds?

How many of you know that the Australian government has restricted international arrivals to 4,175 people per week?? TOTAL!! To bad if you’re an Australian citizen who needs to go home for various reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with ‘swanning around on holiday’...

Meanwhile in the many other parts of the world people are trying to get on with life the best they can.

Bouncing between hard lockdowns and easing off and back again will destroy any economy Australia has left. Some sort of middle ground has to be found. Masks on, social distancing, build more ICU beds and PROPERLY isolate the vulnerable (especially in nursing homes etc).

The various state governments need to start building the view that there will be cases within the community. What we have now is this huge fear of ANY cases. There needs to be a proactive look at what limits the spread of the virus while still allowing as many people as possible to go about their day. A lockdown is not the answer.

If a vaccine is really the answer, that’s 18 months or more away. Until then is the Australian population going to accept continued lockdowns for the inevitable out breaks? Are various industries going to survive with the international borders effectively closed? Will domestic tourism survive with the various state border closures? Will Qantas, VA MK2 or any other airline survive such a long period of uncertainty?

[Bend alot]

I remember reading back when the cases dropped off that Victoria alone had created (or planned) 4000 new ICU beds to cope with the predicted outbreak. What happened to all those beds?




I read a few days ago Victoria was around 80 or 85% capacity of ICU beds at the time. They also talked of the extra 4,000 ICU beds that can be made available and they had trained some nurses for ICU and they also had extra ventilators available.

The read was the ICU beds were like going from economy to premium economy - far short of business or first classes.

My guess is they will not want to try the reserve ICU beds as they can not afford another enquiry.

[Australopithecus]

On herd immunity: By now we should have all read that recent studies show that detectable antibodies in recovered patients diminish rapidly in just a few months, Immune responses are more complex than that however, and there don’t seem to be any peer-reviewed studies on T-cell response over time. The herd immunity theory of slowing Covid-19’s spread sounds good in theory, but as yet there are no facts in evidence that it is effective or long-lasting.

The Swedish laissez-faire model has resulted in a higher per-capita death rate with exactly the same economic damage compared to its Scandinavian peers. There is obviously lots of short term pain on that road with an uncertain and unquantifiable reward.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/sweden-s-grim-covid-19-result-more-death-and-nearly-equal-economic-damage-1.4300102

[SHVC]

Herd immunity is fine Until one of your family members dies from COVID-19.

on another note, few promising vaccines getting around the world.

https://www.modernatx.com

[Australopithecus]

Yeah, I should have written that it sounds plausible. Personally I think that as a government policy its immoral and criminally negligent.

[alphacentauri]

Herd immunity is fine Until one of your family members dies from COVID-19

Economic destruction is fine, until you are the one out of a job and cannot support your family.

Pick one.....

[ozbiggles]

And there’s the rub

You can’t have one.You get both.

Everyone who has opened up now has the second wave. Use the USA, States having to shutdown as their hospitals fill up and even more people die than just the ones with Covid. Welcome to Pandemic town.

Victoria having to draft in the troops to drive the ambulance as they expect to have to stand down staff as they get infected.

[HabuHunter]

Australopithecus said: “The Swedish laissez-faire model has resulted in a higher per-capita death rate ...“


While it seems intuitively to be the case, that statement is not proven and shouldn’t be stated with such authority. It may be correct or it may not be.

Sweden’s death rate while higher than its immediate neighbours is still lower than the UK, Belgium, Germany, Spain and Italy... all of whom locked down. Some other countries that did NOT lock down such as South Korea, Taipei and others have really low death rates.

Correlation does not prove causation.

[michigan j]

Economic destruction is fine, until you are the one out of a job and cannot support your family.

Pick one.....
I'm out of work and money is a very tight. Have had to withdraw super to make ends meet.

But I am very pleased that my immunocompromised mother and father with heart disease dont have to contend with Covid thanks very much.

Honestly, what choice would you make?

[SHVC]

Economic destruction is fine, until you are the one out of a job and cannot support your family.

Pick one.....

I am out of job 😀 don’t think I’ll be getting a flying job anytime soon either.

[alphacentauri]

I'm out of work and money is a very tight. Have had to withdraw super to make ends meet.
You are not in the position I describe. I meant you have no money.

Honestly, my choice would be to let the virus run its course, with no lockdowns.

You can’t have one. You get both.
Not sure I agree with that statement.

[Bend alot]

You are not in the position I describe. I meant you have no money.

Honestly, my choice would be to let the virus run its course, with no lockdowns.


Not sure I agree with that statement.

Having no money is a very hard position to be in in Australia, almost impossible if you are a citizen or a PR holder.

Not a country on the planet has or are letting this virus run it's course, ALL are doing some preventative form of action - possibly the first time in history.

If this virus just cleared mostly the old (the pensioners collecting government cash and medical services) I doubt the government would be so concerned and splashing all the cash, so it is possible they are greatly concerned about it wiping out too many tax payers & need skilled workers immediately. This would require mass skilled worker migration to fill the immediate gaps for skilled workers.

I hope the government/s take a bit of time and work on when, where and how lock-downs happen if required & if I and my family need to take a bit more pain for that, it is ok with me.

Aviation is an industry that is taking a big hit, but it certainly will return.

[LapSap]

With the new outbreaks in Victoria it’s worth asking ‘the viewers at home’...

What is Australia’s strategy with COVID??

........

I'm with aviation-enthus on this.
Several countries, including Australia, seem to be unclear on what their end game is.
With no certainty of a vaccine coming along soon, some authorities seem to be hoping that by locking down, they will reach some kind of miraculous nirvana where everybody will be 100% safe.
Safe from what??
Before this pandemic, around 160,000 people died globally every day - of something. It may sound callous to say but there is every likelihood your immunocompromised mother and father with heart disease (and my 94 year old mum and 90 year old father or myself!) would succumb to something else in the next 5 years. Covid-19 is just another thing out there that is trying to get us and we have to deal with it like we deal with many other things.
To quote aviation-enthus again, the only sustainable way to deal with this is "Some sort of middle ground has to be found. Masks on, social distancing, build more ICU beds and PROPERLY isolate the vulnerable (especially in nursing homes etc)."
Are you really happy to continue living the way we are right now for the next 30 years if no vaccine comes along??? If not, what do you think is going to suddenly change?

[Bodie1]

I'm out of work and money is a very tight. Have had to withdraw super to make ends meet.

So am I and so did I, as well as organise payment 'holidays' on the car and home.

But I am very pleased that my immunocompromised mother and father with heart disease don't have to contend with Covid thanks very much.

Well, they sort of do, whether they are part of a lockdown or not. You cannot and will not be able to protect them from every single covid risk.

Honestly, what choice would you make?

You can protect your vulnerable folk just as well at home as can Chairman Dan, wait, hang on, you're probably much better off protecting your own than some arseclown trying to wrap himself in political glory.

Targeted lockdowns, if you don't play the covid game, you get your postcode locked down with the boys and girls in jungle green looking after you. Hotel isolation for returning travellers (including Danni).

State border closures are INSANE. There is NO covid in regional areas of VIC, but hang them, make them pay. Don't tell me this isn't about politics when QLD taxpayers are paying for Labor Party ads on high rating radio shows boasting about locking Victorians out of QLD.

[Australopithecus]

Australopithecus said: “The Swedish laissez-faire model has resulted in a higher per-capita death rate ...“


While it seems intuitively to be the case, that statement is not proven and shouldn’t be stated with such authority. It may be correct or it may not be.

Sweden’s death rate while higher than its immediate neighbours is still lower than the UK, Belgium, Germany, Spain and Italy... all of whom locked down. Some other countries that did NOT lock down such as South Korea, Taipei and others have really low death rates.

Correlation does not prove causation.

Kindly refrain from selectively quoting me. You clipped out the part where I wrote “Scandinavian neighbours”.

Its pointless to compare their death rate with countries run by populist clowns and populations intent on expressing their “freedumbs”

Denmark death rate 105/million pop
Norway death rate. 47/million
Finland death rate. 59/million

Sweden death rate 549/million

51/2 times higher than Denmark, 11 1/2 times higher than Norway.

sometimes post hoc, ergo propter hoc is a real thing.

[BNEA320]

The problem is that international travel in ALL forms aviation related has never ever been stopped from day dot into and out of Australia. Too many coverups and lies being told about this subject to the Australian public.
How can we contain a virus by isolating innocent Australians, closing boarders, destroying business and so on, and then ! continue allowing infected international travellers to arrive into Australia.

The only way to help the Australian economy and to stop the decline of Aviation in Australia and other business's, before its too late is stop all international travel before Australian aviation becomes decimated passed the point of return.
you seem to believe cases mean deaths. It all depends who gets corona. No healthy people have died, only oldies & others with diminished immunity.

Can't keep closing down a state just because of a few cases. Only 6 deaths in Qld, while at same time around 100 deaths on roads. Put it in perspective.

[Stickshift3000]

There is no 'one model fits all' scenario as to how this pandemic is playing out around the world. There has to be a reasoned, rational trade off between health (deaths), the economy and future prosperity. We have to accept that deaths will occur from COVID, if we don't we might as well spend all day inside wrapped in cotton wool.

The lockdowns have no doubt increased mental health issues, substance abuse, domestic violence and suicide rates. These issues will continue to increase as the economy goes to sh!t when government wage support ceases.

Unfortunately many governments (not all) will try anything to reduce the death numbers, regardless of whether those folk were 90+, immuno-compromised or generally just outlived their life expectancy. The negative media associated with any deaths is behind much of this aim - totally removed from the reality of the situation just to grab a few clicks on a news article.

What's the solution? I don't know.

'Flattening the curve' (infection suppression through restricted activities) was done in an effort to not overwhelm ICU bed availability. I'd suggest that if ICU beds are still available, then restrictions can be eased, however there appears to be around a 7-10 day lag on infections and ICU intake. This severely increases the difficulty for governments making policy on the fly.

People will continue to flout the rules as it suppresses their daily activities and, let's face it, the virus is hardly life-threatening to the majority; I can hardly blame them.

[Australopithecus]

Reply to BNEA320:

Don’t be a Cnut. The tide of Covid isn’t inevitable, and it can be turned back. And who the hell are you to decide? And stop spouting lies. Healthy people have died. Young healthy people. And you should be aware that there are lots of very bad outcomes for many survivors too. Outcomes that will diminish their health for the rest of their lives.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnut_the_Great

[Xeptu]

The 300 health care workers that died on the job in the UK alone would be disappointed to here they were oldies and health compromised anyway.

[Stickshift3000]

The 300 health care workers that died on the job in the UK alone would be disappointed to here they were oldies and health compromised anyway.

The tipping point is when there are no more ICU beds available to treat the sick that have life-threatening illnesses (of any cause).

[currawong]

As HabuHunter points out, South Korea and Taiwan have done very well indeed.

For reasons that would not, at this point, work in Australia.

Contact tracing methodology seen there would be too "intrusive".

Removal of all those who test positive to a government facility until deemed fit would be too "draconian".

Huge fines for failure to report symptoms "Orwellian".

Get used to the idea of those and we might get back to normal. Personally, I don't think there is a snowballs.

[Turnleft080]

To quote aviation-enthus again, the only sustainable way to deal with this is "Some sort of middle ground has to be found. Masks on, social distancing, build more ICU beds and PROPERLY isolate the vulnerable (especially in nursing homes etc)."

Lapsap regarding the above sentence.

1. Masks- should only be worn if you have or tested positive with covid. If you have 100 people tested negative masks are pointless.
Additionally they reduce your O2 by 20% because your recycling some of your CO2 which is a by product (waste) once the red blood cells have finished it's job of transporting O2.
Hence all your body organs are getting 20% less O2. Well that's really good for your brain.
If you get sneezed on your mask is supposed to protect you. Like hell. Your hair, ears, forehead, neck, shoulders, shirt, pants, are totally coated with the virus.
Then you touch your mask, enough said. Don't forget your swimming goggles if you wear a musk, tear ducts absorb everything that's in front of you.
Minor points they mentally drag you down, can't see your lips move while talking, and you feel claustrophobic adding emotional stress.

2. Social distancing- Who came up with 1.5m. Really WHO came up with this shizen. If you sneeze in still air your particles will travel 5-7m they are released at 200kph.
Kylie Mole/Billie Eilish "der."

3. ICUs- Hospitals are places were you should avoid if you can. It's your last resort. If they put you on drugs and shizen food, they destroy gut lining. Well that's good for you immune system.
If they put you on a ventilator it does the breathing for you. To have one on, your lungs are in a pneumonitis state. Mucus is building in your alveolus and that needs to be coughed up.
You really think they would have a tube in there (the lungs) to vacuum out the gunk. If they don't it's like drowning in your own fluids. Please tell me 570,000 haven't died like this.
Your grandma and your great, always boiled some water, throw the tea towel over you and breath deep. A sauna and a hot shower has the same effect.
Notice you cough up a lot of mucus during it. Viruses hate hot saturated air.

4.-Isolate the vulnerable. Good idea. They have been doing that since Ancient Egypt, Roman Empire though our present day emperors will lockdown everything.

[LapSap]

To quote aviation-enthus again, the only sustainable way to deal with this is "Some sort of middle ground has to be found. Masks on, social distancing, build more ICU beds and PROPERLY isolate the vulnerable (especially in nursing homes etc)."

Lapsap regarding the above sentence.

1. Masks- should only be worn if you have or tested positive with covid. If you have 100 people tested negative masks are pointless.
Additionally they reduce your O2 by 20% because your recycling some of your CO2 which is a by product (waste) once the red blood cells have finished it's job of transporting O2.
Hence all your body organs are getting 20% less O2. Well that's really good for your brain.
If you get sneezed on your mask is supposed to protect you. Like hell. Your hair, ears, forehead, neck, shoulders, shirt, pants, are totally coated with the virus.
Then you touch your mask, enough said. Don't forget your swimming goggles if you wear a musk, tear ducts absorb everything that's in front of you.
Minor points they mentally drag you down, can't see your lips move while talking, and you feel claustrophobic adding emotional stress.

2. Social distancing- Who came up with 1.5m. Really WHO came up with this shizen. If you sneeze in still air your particles will travel 5-7m they are released at 200kph.
Kylie Mole/Billie Eilish "der."

3. ICUs- Hospitals are places were you should avoid if you can. It's your last resort. If they put you on drugs and shizen food, they destroy gut lining. Well that's good for you immune system.
If they put you on a ventilator it does the breathing for you. To have one on, your lungs are in a pneumonitis state. Mucus is building in your alveolus and that needs to be coughed up.
You really think they would have a tube in there (the lungs) to vacuum out the gunk. If they don't it's like drowning in your own fluids. Please tell me 570,000 haven't died like this.
Your grandma and your great, always boiled some water, throw the tea towel over you and breath deep. A sauna and a hot shower has the same effect.
Notice you cough up a lot of mucus during it. Viruses hate hot saturated air.

4.-Isolate the vulnerable. Good idea. They have been doing that since Ancient Egypt, Roman Empire though our present day emperors will lockdown everything.

Turnleft080, you’re clearly an expert on all matters Covid, so I will bow to your greater knowledge.
Suffice to say that none of those things individually are meant to be a solution but add layers of mitigation.
Having survived SARS in Hong Kong when there were up to 30 fatalities a day in a population of Just under 7 million then, there was no question it was a good idea to wear a mask on the MTR or bus. You see, unlike ‘tough Aussies’ we don’t feel silly wearing a mask in public and I don’t appear to have lost too many brain cells. I’m still in HK and have been wearing a mask the whole day at work as required by my employer. Does it help? I think it does. Does it do such tremendous harm, I don’t see any negative effects so far.
It would seem most of the objections are coming from people who feel their personal freedoms eroded.
If that’s you, please feel free to ride the HK MTR at peak time without a mask.

[currawong]

Turnleft080 -

"Hence all your body organs are getting 20% less O2. Well that's really good for your brain."

Given this is a professional pilots forum I would urge you to reconsider that statement.

Or go back to pilot school.

You decide.

[Australopithecus]

Turnleft080...

The whole point of masks is to prevent a pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic infected individual from spreading the virus. Its for the protection of others. Its a demonstration of civility and consideration for others.

Also...your assertion that a gas permeable mask somehow reduces your O2 intake is as astonishing as it is wrong.

[LapSap]

Turnleft080 -

"Hence all your body organs are getting 20% less O2. Well that's really good for your brain."

Given this is a professional pilots forum I would urge you to reconsider that statement.

Or go back to pilot school.

You decide.

Thanks currawong.
Beat me to it.
https://hypoxico.com/altitude-to-oxygen-chart/

Clearly been spending too much time at 8000 ft.

[Turnleft080]

If that’s you, please feel free to ride the HK MTR at peak time without a mask.

I'II have a go at that. The more viruses I'm exposed to the better. That way you start to build up immunity. That way your anti bodies get more stronger.
Here is an interesting thought. Just say you put your new born in a space suit for 10 years and for the first time he/she takes the space suit off.
A cold, dirt under the finger nail, any food past it's used by date could kill. Why? No immunity build up. The immune system will not recognise these foreign bodies.
So before I go to HK,I will dose up on garlic/ginger,onion,Vit C, Vit D, (all that good stuff you get organically) and a stack of fermented food with trillions of good bacteria.
I will not forget to drink 8 glasses of water either. Don't forget what our mate Hippocrates said in 370BC. Food is your medicine and medicine is your food.

PS. I'm listing to a Melbourne radio station (3aw) as I type, they had a 40 year practiced doctor (Dr Ross) on. He mentioned sunlight alone kills Covid-19.
If you sneeze in the open in direct sunlight exposed to UVA/UVB the virus dies instantly within 30sec. If you sneeze inside a closed room the virus will
lurk around for 24 hours +. So when a government closes the beach they got know idea. As I mentioned before governments scare me not the virus.
Goodnight good health.

[Turnleft080]

Turnleft080...

The whole point of masks is to prevent a pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic infected individual from spreading the virus. Its for the protection of others. Its a demonstration of civility and consideration for others.

Also...your assertion that a gas permeable mask somehow reduces your O2 intake is as astonishing as it is wrong.

I've actually seen people take off the mask, take a few deep breaths then put back on again.
I've seen people drive around windows up with a face mask on. It made me suffocate. Got to laugh
.

[Stickshift3000]

If that’s you, please feel free to ride the HK MTR at peak time without a mask.

I'II have a go at that. The more viruses I'm exposed to the better. That way you start to build up immunity. That way your anti bodies get more stronger.
Here is an interesting thought. Just say you put your new born in a space suit for 10 years and for the first time he/she takes the space suit off.
A cold, dirt under the finger nail, any food past it's used by date could kill. Why? No immunity build up. The immune system will not recognise these foreign bodies.
So before I go to HK,I will dose up on garlic/ginger,onion,Vit C, Vit D, (all that good stuff you get organically) and a stack of fermented food with trillions of good bacteria.
I will not forget to drink 8 glasses of water either. Don't forget what our mate Hippocrates said in 370BC. Food is your medicine and medicine is your food.

PS. I'm listing to a Melbourne radio station (3aw) as I type, they had a 40 year practiced doctor (Dr Ross) on. He mentioned sunlight alone kills Covid-19.
If you sneeze in the open in direct sunlight exposed to UVA/UVB the virus dies instantly within 30sec. If you sneeze inside a closed room the virus will
lurk around for 24 hours +. So when a government closes the beach they got know idea. As I mentioned before governments scare me not the virus.
Goodnight good health.

Are you Pete Evans?

If not, you should meet up with him, you have a lot in common and could be friends.

[Awol57]

I for one feel better knowing that "the virus dies instantly within 30sec".

[Turnleft080]

Who is Pete Evans? Got no idea. Never herd of him.
However as you mentioned him I googled him. He is a chef. Yes his website mentioned what I mentioned. Well, well, well. How about that.
Their you go I'm 55 and I studied Hippocrates when I had to do an assignment on him in primary school. I have never looked back.
Cheers for the info.

[Cdash]

MEL preparing to become the sole entry point into the country very soon. Currently setting up 40+ hotels for quarantine and a hospital to be the dedicated covid hospital.

A week ago I would have said tough on Victorians as borders will remain shut for them but it had the potential to allow the wheels to keep turning in other states, also a bubble between those other states and NZ if they could manage to keep their cases down.
This week Sydney looking just as bad, the country can’t afford to close off the two largest cities for the foreseeable future.

interesting times my friends

[Turnleft080]

I for one feel better knowing that "the virus dies instantly within 30sec".

To back up your statement remember when the first lockdown occurred at the end of summer and thousands turned up on
Bondi & Manly beaches on that beautiful sunny day. The government or councils said you idiots, where closing the beaches.
Not one case showed up afterwards. Why? Due to UVA/UVB, sunlight penetrating your skin to make Vit D boosting your immune system.
That's why your body is innate. It's intelligent. It's designed to thrive on this planet. Food water oxygen exercise. Simple.
Then a few days later I think a boat called the Ruby Princess docked a boat with no HEPA filters with there air-conditioning.

[ozbiggles]

There was plenty of sunlight available on the Ruby Princess so what does that say about your Vitamin D theory?

I don’t ask for your response for any other reason than a good laugh.

[rmm]

This week Sydney looking just as bad, the country can’t afford to close off the two largest cities for the foreseeable future.

Lets hope the NSW govt ring fence these outbreaks early. I thought this was the plan all along for post curve flattening outbreaks.
I hope they don't sit back like dithering Dan and let the thing get out of control before acting.

[Jeps]

Lets hope the NSW govt ring fence these outbreaks early. I thought this was the plan all along for post curve flattening outbreaks.
I hope they don't sit back like dithering Dan and let the thing get out of control before acting.

Seen the new reports this morning? Think it might be already too late.

[BNEA320]

Seen the new reports this morning? Think it might be already too late.
govts should stop trying to stop spread but protect the oldies & vulnerable & their carers. Open all borders & all businesses without any restrictions whatsoever.

[ozbiggles]

govts should stop trying to stop spread but protect the oldies & vulnerable & their carers. Open all borders & all businesses without any restrictions whatsoever.

Because that is working so well...

You notice in Victoria we are now losing health care workers, police and others because they have to self isolate, which by world standards is a pretty small outbreak? To the extent already the plan is to have the ADF driving the ambulances because there will not be enough paramedics? Shortly if they don’t put the genie back in the bottle It won’t matter what is wrong with you. The probability of you dying will increase because you won’t be able to get a cop or paramedic to you in the timeframe you needed.

[Turnleft080]

Because that is working so well...

You notice in Victoria we are now losing health care workers, police and others because they have to self isolate, which by world standards is a pretty small outbreak? To the extent already the plan is to have the ADF driving the ambulances because there will not be enough paramedics? Shortly if they don’t put the genie back in the bottle It won’t matter what is wrong with you. The probability of you dying will increase because you won’t be able to get a cop or paramedic to you in the timeframe you needed.


Ozbiggles your scaring me. You sound like a politician. All doom and gloom. Sounds like catching Covid is an automatic death sentence.
Aus numbers: 10500 cases: 8000 recoverd, 2400 mild condition, 28 in ICU, 111 deaths.
In bold is recoveries. How is that for a good number? Probably healthy people. The mild conditions: the healthy will recover the rest will go to ICU and your looking at 98% recovering.
Those with pre existing morbid conditions still have a chance of survival depending on their immune system. The chances are small for 10500 cases.
Regarding Vit D. Try living in the very high or very low lats with no sun for 6 months.
I think your primary school science teacher once said,"if we didn't have a sun we would not survive."
We would be prone to all viruses end of planet.

[Xeptu]

Try not to confuse Recovered with Cured, they are very different things. At this point in time, outcome is still a roll of the dice.

[HabuHunter]

Kindly refrain from selectively quoting me. You clipped out the part where I wrote “Scandinavian neighbours”.

Its pointless to compare their death rate with countries run by populist clowns and populations intent on expressing their “freedumbs”

Denmark death rate 105/million pop
Norway death rate. 47/million
Finland death rate. 59/million

Sweden death rate 549/million

51/2 times higher than Denmark, 11 1/2 times higher than Norway.

sometimes post hoc, ergo propter hoc is a real thing.


Apologies mate, I didn’t mean to selectively quote you, I just did it for the sake of brevity.
But your reply makes me wonder because I did acknowledge your original comment re neighbours.

This is what I said and I still think it’s accurate. I don’t understand your comment about populist clowns and freedumbs.



“Sweden’s death rate while higher than its immediate neighbours is still lower than the UK, Belgium, Germany, Spain and Italy... all of whom locked down. Some other countries that did NOT lock down such as South Korea, Taipei and others have really low death rates.”

Correlation does not prove causation.

[ozbiggles]

Ozbiggles your scaring me. You sound like a politician. All doom and gloom. Sounds like catching Covid is an automatic death sentence.
Aus numbers: 10500 cases: 8000 recoverd, 2400 mild condition, 28 in ICU, 111 deaths.
In bold is recoveries. How is that for a good number? Probably healthy people. The mild conditions: the healthy will recover the rest will go to ICU and your looking at 98% recovering.
Those with pre existing morbid conditions still have a chance of survival depending on their immune system. The chances are small for 10500 cases.
Regarding Vit D. Try living in the very high or very low lats with no sun for 6 months.
I think your primary school science teacher once said,"if we didn't have a sun we would not survive."
We would be prone to all viruses end of planet.

I agree, the Australian numbers are good. And that is my point, if we turn them into American numbers percentage wise then not so good.

Im all for the state borders opening and the ‘Tasman bubble’ ASAP, probably a small delay with Victoria now however. I now, used to be, in the aviation workforce. I would like nothing more than to see the remaining pilots flying their backsides off. But I don’t want to see the ‘good’ results we have now turn into what we see overseas.

I watched the ABC Australia American correspondent Kathryn Diss I think it is talking about her experience having just recently caught it in the news today. She looks good and admits it was a mild case. When she talks about it as a mild case it is pretty stuffed up. She still has a pulse rate sitting 20 beats per minute higher than it used to and some other lingering effects. She is 30 years old, listen to her describe what is going on and tell me you wish that on any young person.

As for my primary school science teacher, I think I was staring outside at 747s flying by when she spoke.

[currawong]

Who is Pete Evans? Got no idea. Never herd of him.
However as you mentioned him I googled him. He is a chef. Yes his website mentioned what I mentioned. Well, well, well. How about that.
Their you go I'm 55 and I studied Hippocrates when I had to do an assignment on him in primary school. I have never looked back.
Cheers for the info.

55? Really? Couple of months ago you told us you were 60.

Gone back to pilot school yet?

Or do you still think 20% less oxygen is .... well, you know the rest.

[jrfsp]

Getting back to the borders....the issue remains if VIC/NSW pursue an suppression strategy, the borders to the other states will not open while they have elimination. We need to have a whole country solution.

[morno]

Would all the “it’s not a bad virus” people mind going and getting infected, then tell us about the aftermath and whether you’re still able to maintain a class 1 medical?

Because I certainly don’t want to follow your idea of just letting it run rampant, getting it, then finding that perhaps your ‘science’ (Pilots, we’re experts in everything right, just ask us) is incorrect and I’m now not able to keep my Class 1.

I don’t think our colleague in Vietnam who spent months on a ventilator (I think he was a fairly healthy bloke beforehand) and ECMO, would quite agree with the idea of letting it run rampant, especially now that his lungs are probably ruined for the rest of his life and unlikely to ever fly again.

Just have a think about all that.....

[Section28- BE]

Shall 'just' leave, this here (and not engage, lock & load):

Link: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-16/recovering-from-coronavirus-in-the-united-states-of-america/12414554

Rgds all/be well!!!
S28- BE

[Turnleft080]

55? Really? Couple of months ago you told us you were 60. ----- Sorry about my fluctuations depends on how I'm feeling in morning. Knee joints are 30. Off for a run.

Gone back to pilot school yet? ----- I'm thrusting on beautifully always looking for a lift though sick and tired of those that want to weigh me down and drag me in the mud.

Or do you still think 20% less oxygen is -well, you know the rest. ------ If only our lungs could speak- STOP GAGGING ME YOU DRONGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Will Dan wear a musk. Now that's a good Q&A.

[glekichi]

1. Masks- should only be worn if you have or tested positive with covid. If you have 100 people tested negative masks are pointless.
Additionally they reduce your O2 by 20% because your recycling some of your CO2 which is a by product (waste) once the red blood cells have finished it's job of transporting O2.
Hence all your body organs are getting 20% less O2. Well that's really good for your brain.
If you get sneezed on your mask is supposed to protect you. Like hell. Your hair, ears, forehead, neck, shoulders, shirt, pants, are totally coated with the virus.
Then you touch your mask, enough said. Don't forget your swimming goggles if you wear a musk, tear ducts absorb everything that's in front of you.
Minor points they mentally drag you down, can't see your lips move while talking, and you feel claustrophobic adding emotional stress.

2. Social distancing- Who came up with 1.5m. Really WHO came up with this shizen. If you sneeze in still air your particles will travel 5-7m they are released at 200kph.
Kylie Mole/Billie Eilish "der."


So can you not see how your point no.2 contradicts no.1?

Absolutely people should be wearing masks to prevent such situations. Not 24/7 but definitely in crowded places and in close contact. The lack of O2 and CO2 buildup fake news has been debunked time and time again.

If sensible mask wearing and distancing (1.5-2m is enough for non-sneeze particles) can be implemented, you can keep the spread at bay without going full lockdown.
Flatten the curve without shutting down society.

The virus doesn't appear to be that bad compared to whats already getting around, except for the rapid spread causing a breakdown in the healthcare system.
Locking down borders forever is not sustainable. NZ is going to be hit very hard if they keep it up.
Countries and states should be opening up to places with similar levels of success in controlling the virus in their populations through practical measures, ie, social distancing and masks, etc.
It doesn't need to be zero.

That said I doubt Australians and Kiwis can adapt to wearing masks that are there to help others and are not for their own benefit.

People will go as far as to spread bull**** like O2 levels an CO2 concentrations to avoid it.
How dare we interfere with god's own perfectly designed respiratory system? (They say wearing clothes and sunscreen interfering with god's own perfectly designed skin)
We aren't good at frequent hand washing.
I still saw someone at Woolies, in the midst of this outbreak and well before it was under control, rub their nose on fruit in order to give it a really good sniff and make sure it was ripe...

Thus the huge initial spike we saw pre-lockdown that had us on a trajectory like that of Italy or the US.
I was against the lockdown, but if we cant adapt......

We need to change and adapt and learn to live WITH it to keep the curve flattened until its done the rounds and/or a vaccine is developed, or the alternative it to just build a big wall around the country to keep out those infected foreigners and forget tourism or business travel altogether for a couple of years.

[morno]

I’ll just leave this here....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-16/georgia-thought-her-coronavirus-would-last-a-couple-of-weeks/12444716

Anyone concerned about contracting this and then possibly not being able to maintain a medical? I know I am. Run rampant? No thanks.

There’s a great bunch of clowns in here that make themselves think they have degrees in medicine and epidemiology.

[Turnleft080]

Morno. My only concern for this women, as I read through the article was hoping I get to the part on what drugs she was administered throughout her 3 months.
At no stage throughout the article a doctor or a epidemiologist actually indicted or (she didn't say what she was taking) to recover from this thing.
She was blasé initially though i.e. she was fine, it will probably pass because I'm 31 and healthy.
Well if that was me I would very seriously nuke the bastard, no not sudafed it I'm talking 20 raw cloves of garlic chopped in half and swallow. Not all at once, over a day with food.
Plus 4 litres of water. This thing dehydrates you fast.
I know I'm not a med expert or an epidemiologist as you mentioned though that's what I would do. I would give it a shot see how it goes. With flu I always win.
I know covid is not the flu but the way I treat the very first symptom of URTI is garlic. In today's environment I would 10 fold the problem.
If you want to grill me or think I'm a nut case I can take that.
Theirs like 15 health benefits in taking garlic everyday.
Anyway glad she is recovering.
Good health everyone.

[glekichi]

Wouldn't all of that in the article apply to most with any form of pneumonia?

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Morno. My only concern for this women, as I read through the article was hoping I get to the part on what drugs she was administered throughout her 3 months.
At no stage throughout the article a doctor or a epidemiologist actually indicted or (she didn't say what she was taking) to recover from this thing.
She was blasé initially though i.e. she was fine, it will probably pass because I'm 31 and healthy.
Well if that was me I would very seriously nuke the bastard, no not sudafed it I'm talking 20 raw cloves of garlic chopped in half and swallow. Not all at once, over a day with food.
Plus 4 litres of water. This thing dehydrates you fast.
I know I'm not a med expert or an epidemiologist as you mentioned though that's what I would do. I would give it a shot see how it goes. With flu I always win.
I know covid is not the flu but the way I treat the very first symptom of URTI is garlic. In today's environment I would 10 fold the problem.
If you want to grill me or think I'm a nut case I can take that.
Theirs like 15 health benefits in taking garlic everyday.
Anyway glad she is recovering.
Good health everyone.

There you have it ladies and gentlemen, tell the boys at Oxford to down tools, some nut job on PPRUNE just solved the COVID crisis. Garlic! The cure we’ve been looking for! Can’t wait to hear the Nobel Prize speech Turn Left!

[Turnleft080]

There you have it ladies and gentlemen, tell the boys at Oxford to down tools, some nut job on PPRUNE just solved the COVID crisis. Garlic! The cure we’ve been looking for! Can’t wait to hear the Nobel Prize speech Turn Left!

Got to say I got a laugh out of that. A Nobel. If Greta Thurnburg can do it, anyone can do it. Thanks mate my shout

[Sunfish]

Garlic! What a good way to enforce social distancing.

[Stickshift3000]

440 new cases in Vic today.

Not surprising, as the numbers will continue to lag behind lockdown restrictions for at least another week.

[Section28- BE]

And ex ABC today- link here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-17/coronavirus-melbourne-doctor-suppression-or-elimination/12462518

rgds
S28- BE

[Turnleft080]

It turns out 428 cases. Just another point of view. Split the group. Put 214 on my garlic extravaganza and place 214 on standard medications.
Which group would recover faster.

[Chris2303]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12348849Covid 19 coronavirus: Winston Peters takes aim at Australia over virus 'looseness'

To be fair we have an election in 63 days

[BNEA320]

Qatar to fly AKL/BNE/DOH from August 3 using an A350-1000. Don't think they have traffic rights AKL/BNE/AKL but maybe they'll get temporary traffic rights ?

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/292467/qatar-airways-intends-to-resume-auckland-service-from-aug-2020/?highlight=qatar

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

It turns out 428 cases. Just another point of view. Split the group. Put 214 on my garlic extravaganza and place 214 on standard medications.
Which group would recover faster.

hahaha

thanks for taking my comment in the spirit it was intended!

Very good idea

[Stickshift3000]

It turns out 428 cases. Just another point of view. Split the group. Put 214 on my garlic extravaganza and place 214 on standard medications.
Which group would recover faster.

Perhaps you could also dose half of them with turmeric? Surely nothing could survive the garlic & turmeric 1, 2 knockdown combo?!

Dozens of research institutes and private companies working feverishly on vaccines and therapies, and the answer was in the bottom of our pantries and being added to our lattes all along...

[wheels_down]

The Premier of SA spoke to the media tonight and said he will have his borders closed, on his words, for a very very long time to Victoria and NSW. I read this as months not weeks.

His first case in nearly three weeks of nothing, today, was none other than a Jetstar pax that flew in from Melbourne.

Looks like SA will join QLD with a monitoring period post lockdown of 4-8 weeks watching Victoria and see if they can handle it.

It appears that August to October the dial is not going to shift much at all on the capacity front. Hopefully the thing washes away in the back end of this timeframe so we can start opening up from November otherwise the ramifications are financially dire for the industry if we don’t. Anastasia is clearly going to play hardball with the southern states in terms of reopening.

[Ragnor]

You hate JQ Wheels Down, could of been a pax on any flight even your beloved carrier.

[Turnleft080]

https://amgreatness.com/2020/05/04/the-failed-experiment-of-social-distancing/

Oh wait their's more.

In today's HeraldSun 18/07/20 page 32 paragraph 5 half way down. Quote "While Australia has drawn widespread praise globally for its initial reaction,
broad lockdowns are not the best way to fight renewed outbreaks, according to experts from Europe, Britain, the US, and the WHO." end quote.

I take it no one at the HearldSun proof read the article or advised any government minister for publishing the article. Surely they have egg on there face now.
Sutton and Andrews are treating us no different to lab rats. We are an experiment.
Remember his language about 2 weeks ago, "if you walk outside your front door you will kill people or yourself. This is a very deadly decease.
What you should of said Dan is ' if you walk outside your front door you have a 99.7% chance of not dying and a 0.3% chance of dying.
In the wash up they will be found out.

[Turnleft080]

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/

If you scroll down you will come up to the following.

Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36 (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article#r36)). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

So I look at people with face masks on and I see people that have been brain washed by governments.
They have no effect. Thank you cdc.

[Buster Hyman]

How on Earth will they be able to make exorbitant profits out of masks if you keep posting things like that TL80? :=

[Turnleft080]

How on Earth will they be able to make exorbitant profits out of masks if you keep posting things like that TL80? :=

They can go back to what they were originally manufacturing, curtains and underwear.

[morno]

I see yet another flurry of international arrivals into Sydney airport this morning. Most from China, China Eastern - Air China - China Southern to name a few.
Are we missing something here ?

No. They’re mostly freight with possibly a few pax who go into mandatory quarantine. Don’t bother with conspiracy theories

[currawong]

This would seem to be topical.

Warning: science

https://youtu.be/0Tp0zB904Mc

[Stickshift3000]

In today's HeraldSun 18/07/20 page 32 paragraph 5 half way down. Quote "While Australia has drawn widespread praise globally for its initial reaction, broad lockdowns are not the best way to fight renewed outbreaks, according to experts from Europe, Britain, the US, and the WHO”.

Yeah because things have worked out so well in Europe, Britain & the US...

[Bend alot]

Good to see NSW and Victorians take things seriously .

Grow up!

[Australopithecus]

This would seem to be topical.

Warning: science

https://youtu.be/0Tp0zB904Mc

Thanks for posting that. I have now become a superspreader of that video.

[Turnleft080]

Thanks for posting that. I have now become a superspreader of that video.

Yep, seems to be working 1 in 10 wearing them this morning when I went shopping and a few with their noses exposed.

[Bodie1]

He had me right up to the point he said 'We're all in this together.'

Stop the video at 7:18 and you won't hear the nauseating, vomit inducing drivel, but still get a very good message.

[HabuHunter]

Thanks for posting the vid on mask wearing Currawong. But it does not tell the whole story.

The video shows excellent footage of how masks stifle the airflow. There is no debate as to whether a mask slows down and blocks the airflow of the breath...of course it does.
However there is more to consider than just airflow.

The strict scientific studies on the effectiveness of masks show conflicting results except for masks worn in professional medical settings. In other words, we just don’t know if widespread mask wearing by the general population will makes things better .....or worse.

A big problem is that masks should only be touched twice, once when putting on and once when taking off. Most people constantly touch their masks, and then touch other things, potentially spreading the virus even more than if they hadn’t worn the mask.

The video below shows two Professors talking about masks and the need for evidence based decision making. They don’t advocate mask wearing based on the available scientific studies.

https://youtu.be/Z3plSbCbkSA

[Chronic Snoozer]

So I look at people with face masks on and I see people that have been brain washed by governments.

I don’t. I see people with a willingness to understand the situation, a preparedness to act in the best interests of themselves, their loved ones and others, and a level of trust that the health experts advising the governments are best placed to provide guidance on best practice.

COVID 19 deaths thus far approx. 600K in 7 months or so. Arguably that’s about 2800-3000 (tel:2800-3000) deaths per day, 2-3 times a higher rate than influenza, for which there is a vaccine AND which is not a coronavirus, and that is in spite of the application varying degrees of lockdown, social distancing and increased emphasis on hygiene.

[Australopithecus]

Yep, seems to be working 1 in 10 wearing them this morning when I went shopping and a few with their noses exposed.

And you were of course one of them, right?

[Turnleft080]

As of Wed it is now compulsory. Dan has now full operational control of your life.
Hope you can breath people. Like a tax it won't come off.

[Turnleft080]

And you were of course one of them, right?

99.7%.

You have a better chance of getting run over than getting covid.

[morno]

Geez you’re a fu**wit. Believe in chemtrails too?

Stay away from my family so they don’t catch Covid

[Turnleft080]

Geez you’re a fu**wit. Believe in chemtrails too?

Stay away from my family so they don’t catch Covid

No problem. Will do. Stay away from bowl cancer as well 120 died this week.

[rattman]

Geez you’re a fu**wit. Believe in chemtrails too?

Stay away from my family so they don’t catch Covid


To keep up with the chem trail quota now that planes are grounded they have impregnated masks with the chemtrail chemicals. Dictator dan is working for the illuminati

[JustinHeywood]

.... Stay away from bowl cancer as well 120 died this week.


Yikes! I'll stay away from bowls of all descriptions from now on - and I'll definitely be following your advice for all things medical / epidemiological.

[currawong]

"Despite being close to China, Taiwan has stopped the COVID-19 with general screening strategy and encouraging people in Taiwan to wear a mask"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7270822/

I would hasten to add that disregarding information coming from China and the WHO in the early stages seems to have played a role in their success...

[Turnleft080]

https://youtu.be/eXWhbUUE4ko

Since this is a youtube day
We gonna mask you all the way
Do you think Dan is making a lie
Of course not we want you to mentally die.

[Turnleft080]

Turnleft080...

Also...your assertion that a gas permeable mask somehow reduces your O2 intake is as astonishing as it is wrong.

https://www.technocracy.news/blaylock-face-masks-pose-serious-risks-to-the-healthy/

Australopithecus: Again, we need all the O2 we can get. Why block it. It's your life support.

[dr dre]

Since this is a youtube day
We gonna mask you all the way
Do you think Dan is making a lie
Of course not we want you to mentally die.

Countries in east Asia where mask wearing is prominent and cases per 1 million people:
Vietnam 4
Taiwan 19
Thailand 46
China 58
Japan 191
Hong Kong 237
South Korea 268
Malaysia 271

Now some selected non East Asian countries:
Germany 2417
Italy 4039
UK 4331
Russia 5245
Israel 5367
Sweden 7650
USA 11577
Chile 17195

So whatever East Asian countries are doing its undeniable they’re doing better than comparable first world Western countries. And part of this must be related to greater acceptance of mask wearing, which was prominent culturally in Asia even before this pandemic.

Asian collectivist mindset and greater emphasis on social wellbeing rather than western culture of individual rights and resistance to authority may be the explanation.

So whilst some here may say mask wearing is the sign of a dictator enforcing brutal authority on the populace, those of more Asian mindset will probably say it’s the sign of effective government leadership and a society all willing to chip in for the greater good.

[Turnleft080]

So whilst some here may say mask wearing is the sign of a dictator enforcing brutal authority on the populace, those of more Asian mindset will probably say it’s the sign of effective government leadership and a society all willing to chip in for the greater good.[/QUOTE]

During BLM they wanted to change the name of the state of Victoria.
People's Not so Democratic Socialist Republic of Danastan.

Right I want you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, and you please come over here.
That will be a $200 fine for being maskless. You do not have the right for appeal. It must be paid in 48 hours.
Do I make myself clear.

[currawong]

If it means the airline pilots can get their jobs back, I'll do it.

[HabuHunter]

Countries in east Asia where mask wearing is prominent and cases per 1 million people:
Vietnam 4
Taiwan 19
Thailand 46
China 58
Japan 191
Hong Kong 237
South Korea 268
Malaysia 271

Now some selected non East Asian countries:
Germany 2417
Italy 4039
UK 4331
Russia 5245
Israel 5367
Sweden 7650
USA 11577
Chile 17195

So whatever East Asian countries are doing its undeniable they’re doing better than comparable first world Western countries. And part of this must be related to greater acceptance of mask wearing, which was prominent.

Dr Dre, you can’t use those statistics to say the reason must be related to mask wearing. It may or it may not be the case.
Off the top of my head I can think of a couple of reasons that might explain why Asia is fairing better. First off, it’s known that sunlight affects the lifespan of the virus, most of Asia is in the tropics, maybe that’s why? Or the fact that most of the Asian countries have a much younger population than the western countries. The point is, we don’t really know why Asia in general is fairing pretty well. It’s probably a combination of things which together have helped out, and may or may not include masks.

[Turnleft080]

If it means the airline pilots can get their jobs back, I'll do it.

Come Thursday I think it means I'm going to have a criminal record.

[thisishardtochoose]

So whilst some here may say mask wearing is the sign of a dictator enforcing brutal authority on the populace, those of more Asian mindset will probably say it’s the sign of effective government leadership and a society all willing to chip in for the greater good.

During BLM they wanted to change the name of the state of Victoria.
People's Not so Democratic Socialist Republic of Danastan.

Right I want you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, and you please come over here.
That will be a $200 fine for being maskless. You do not have the right for appeal. It must be paid in 48 hours.
Do I make myself clear.[/QUOTE]

I certainly hope no one has to ever deal with you inside a cockpit ever again. Grow the f up.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Come Thursday I think it means I'm going to have a criminal record.

I think you’ll find that after Thursday when you go to the supermarket and 80-90% of people are wearing masks, it’ll be an odd feeling not to be wearing one.

Pretty strong WHO data that wearing masks cuts transmission of the virus dramatically.

1.5% transmission rate between 2 people if they’re both wearing a mask is the stat I heard on the radio.

[Turnleft080]

I certainly hope no one has to ever deal with you inside a cockpit ever again. Grow the f up.[/QUOTE]

People that swear and abuse in a flight deck, line up the last piece of swiss cheese.

[Rashid Bacon]

Wuhan Dan, two standards Dan, Dan Danastan - whatever you call him, he has completely missed the boat. Telling everyone to accept responsibility while not publicly taking it himself. His stuff ups have effectively closed down a large part of this country rather than opening it up.:mad:

[Ragnor]

Real questions here are, does Victoria have millions of mask on hand for people to purchase and the shops that sold a mask yesterday for $2 will that mask still be $2 tomorrow! Demand will strip out supply here

[thisishardtochoose]

Wuhan Dan, two standards Dan, Dan Danastan - whatever you call him, he has completely missed the boat. Telling everyone to accept responsibility while not publicly taking it himself. His stuff ups have effectively closed down a large part of this country rather than opening it up.:mad:

What would you like dan to do? There's no playbook for dealing with Pandemics, I sincerely hope we never have to go through one of these ever again but cut the man some slack. Not one other person would want to be in his position right now.

[SOPS]

Wuhan Dan, two standards Dan, Dan Danastan - whatever you call him, he has completely missed the boat. Telling everyone to accept responsibility while not publicly taking it himself. His stuff ups have effectively closed down a large part of this country rather than opening it up.:mad:

And he told everyone to stay at home. Now he is forcing people out to queue up to by masks. He has lost control of this, big time!!!

[thisishardtochoose]

Real questions here are, does Victoria have millions of mask on hand for people to purchase and the shops that sold a mask yesterday for $2 will that mask still be $2 tomorrow! Demand will strip out supply here

From what Dan said in the press conference, state has ordered 2 million masks, with the first shipment to arrive this week. These will be handed out to workplaces with urgent need as they arrive (please someone with more information correct me if I am wrong)

[Ragnor]

I didn’t listen to the conference. 2 million! Hopefully he has another 2 million on order for end of the week, they don’t seem very durable. This should of happened a week ago, I feel NSW should also follow suit now hit it hard from the start not allowing numbers to increase to a level where VIC is now.

[Australopithecus]

What would you like dan to do? There's no playbook for dealing with Pandemics, I sincerely hope we never have to go through one of these ever again but cut the man some slack. Not one other person would want to be in his position right now.

why sure there is. Attached is the playbook commissioned by the Obama administration which shouldn’t be too hard to adopt to local needs. Of course the idiot Trump ignored all of it because: Obama

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6819268/Pandemic-Playbook.pdf

[normanton]

What would you like dan to do? There's no playbook for dealing with Pandemics, I sincerely hope we never have to go through one of these ever again but cut the man some slack. Not one other person would want to be in his position right now.
You mean the same guy who stood in front of the media and said "why would you want to go to SA"?

The same guy who told everyone not to go to Anzac day, but then allowed thousands to protest for the black lives matter movement? Not only allowed it, but directly said no one will be fined.

The same guy who allowed private security guards to monitor hotel quarantine guests?

The list goes on! He should have been sacked months ago.

[Turnleft080]

What would you like dan to do? There's no playbook for dealing with Pandemics, I sincerely hope we never have to go through one of these ever again but cut the man some slack. Not one other person would want to be in his position right now.

What can Dan do. Lockdown the sick, and get the healthy back to work. I have been saying that since March.
With this new mask policy, all borders, all states, should open up on Thursday. If they don't what are we waiting for?
Four more weeks of this, people are starting to bleed from the inside. I'm starting to crack myself. Sorry if I upset you though I'm over this.

[Ladloy]

You mean the same guy who stood in front of the media and said "why would you want to go to SA"?

The same guy who told everyone not to go to Anzac day, but then allowed thousands to protest for the black lives matter movement? Not only allowed it, but directly said no one will be fined.

The same guy who allowed private security guards to monitor hotel quarantine guests?

The list goes on! He should have been sacked months ago.
Were you saying the same when 3000 people were allowed off a cruise ship in Sydney which killed 30 people? NSW reported 18 cases today. They're only 3 weeks behind Vic. I hope to see you screaming from the rooftops that Gladys should be sacked when we see NSW hit the second wave and we are at 100+ daily new cases.

[Rashid Bacon]

What would you like dan to do? There's no playbook for dealing with Pandemics......

There's no playbook for pandemic's, but there sure is culpability about ensuring guards at hotels do the job they are supposed to do. If he had managed that right (as they seem to have done in every other state) we would not be in this calamitous situation now.

Why are people continually apologising for this clown ??

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

What can Dan do. Lockdown the sick, and get the healthy back to work. I have been saying that since March.
With this new mask policy, all borders, all states, should open up on Thursday. If they don't what are we waiting for?
Four more weeks of this, people are starting to bleed from the inside. I'm starting to crack myself. Sorry if I upset you though I'm over this.

ahh, the ‘lock down the sick’ idea! Sounds beautiful in its simplicity, but like most issues, it’s more complex than that.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/03/heres-why-it-wont-work-just-isolate-elderly-vulnerable/%3foutputType=amp

I was also thinking along these lines at the beginning of the pandemic (for the sake of my career) but unfortunately an objective analysis of all facts showed this isn’t possible.

Add to that, I was in the ‘its just a flu’ camp for the first few weeks too! Some of my quotes certainly haven’t aged well.

[thisishardtochoose]

You mean the same guy who stood in front of the media and said "why would you want to go to SA"?

The same guy who told everyone not to go to Anzac day, but then allowed thousands to protest for the black lives matter movement? Not only allowed it, but directly said no one will be fined.

The same guy who allowed private security guards to monitor hotel quarantine guests?

The list goes on! He should have been sacked months ago.

1. Why would you go to SA? The reason SA escaped from getting high number of cases is quite literally because no one goes there in my opinion. QLD, NSW, VIC got most of the cases purely for the fact that these 3 states get more international travellers hence more people carrying the virus. Note up until recently these were the only 3 states that were taking in any form of Repatriation flights.

2. As far as I remember he explicitly said to not go to those protests. All the other major cities in Australia had these protests (much bigger than Melb in some cities) but no transmission and even in Melbourne it has proven to be very low cases which are not linked in any way shape or form. So no you cannot blame the increase of cases on BLM protests.

3. Private Security guards have been used widely across all the other states as well. NSW had caught some sleeping on the job. The only reason anyone has any sort of a problem with this is because some idiot couldn't keep it in his pants. This idiot didn't have the brain space to compute that these people were being isolated for some reason.

Then there were families who decided the rules that were in place didn't exist for them, people even thought regardless of having being diagnosed with this disease they were allowed to go visit their family.

Honestly, yes Dan could have done things better but in my opinion majority of the blame lies with the people of Victoria (including I). I for one would not want Dan's job and I am pretty sure nor would anyone on this thread or the opposition party (thank god they aren't in power).

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

1. Why would you go to SA? The reason SA escaped from getting high number of cases is quite literally because no one goes there in my opinion. QLD, NSW, VIC got most of the cases purely for the fact that these 3 states get more international travellers hence more people carrying the virus. Note up until recently these were the only 3 states that were taking in any form of Repatriation flights.

2. As far as I remember he explicitly said to not go to those protests. All the other major cities in Australia had these protests (much bigger than Melb in some cities) but no transmission and even in Melbourne it has proven to be very low cases which are not linked in any way shape or form. So no you cannot blame the increase of cases on BLM protests.

3. Private Security guards have been used widely across all the other states as well. NSW had caught some sleeping on the job. The only reason anyone has any sort of a problem with this is because some idiot couldn't keep it in his pants. This idiot didn't have the brain space to compute that these people were being isolated for some reason.

Then there were families who decided the rules that were in place didn't exist for them, people even thought regardless of having being diagnosed with this disease they were allowed to go visit their family.

Honestly, yes Dan could have done things better but in my opinion majority of the blame lies with the people of Victoria (including I). I for one would not want Dan's job and I am pretty sure nor would anyone on this thread or the opposition party (thank god they aren't in power).

This is too rational for PPRUNE.

please take you logical/radical ideas elsewhere!

[Rashid Bacon]

As far as the protests go - were people seriously going to take his advice and "not go". Clearly not.

Hotel guards - In other states there was much more supervision. Also ask Dan the man about the security contracts that were offered to several companies who refused as the money on offer wouldn't cover costs. You get what you pay for. In the end, he paid for crap and got exactly that.

It's reasonable to expect prudent and sensible leadership with adequate processes to manage and monitor this sort of stuff. External assistance should have been here in much greater numbers weeks and months ago.

Now it may be months before even domestic borders fully open.

[Xeptu]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x495/victoria_6913ac5dbf5899c7d26a44c5ef5fd5362c1ba6aa.jpg

[currawong]

Emulate the successful.

Its not that hard...

[Boe787]

Taiwan the most successful....no lockdown.....masks mandatory in public and on public transport
masks readily available....eg 711 stores and subsidised by government according to my mate there.
25 million people on an island half the size of Tasmania, 7 deaths and around 430 cases.

[thisishardtochoose]

As far as the protests go - were people seriously going to take his advice and "not go". Clearly not.

Hotel guards - In other states there was much more supervision. Also ask Dan the man about the security contracts that were offered to several companies who refused as the money on offer wouldn't cover costs. You get what you pay for. In the end, he paid for crap and got exactly that.

It's reasonable to expect prudent and sensible leadership with adequate processes to manage and monitor this sort of stuff. External assistance should have been here in much greater numbers weeks and months ago.

Now it may be months before even domestic borders fully open.

1. Didn't the NSW government try make the protests illegal yet the courts over ruled the decision? I can guarantee you if Dan had tried to do the same thing you all would be complaint about "loss of democracy". Damned if you Damned if you don't.

2. Can you guarantee that with more supervision this idiot security guard would not have slept with the person? Didn't stop the guards from sleeping with all this "extra supervision" in NSW did it?

3. You'll see when Australians start embracing/normalising wearing of masks domestic travel will return sooner than later. But it's people like Turnleft080 who will make it very much difficult to do so costing us all our own jobs and livelihoods then in turn complain about losing jobs and livelihoods.

[dr dre]

Emulate the successful.

Its not that hard...

Here's some more data. Compared with the infection rates of East Asian nations that I posted in post #469 there's one outlier, Singapore. That nation had traditionally had a policy of discouraging their citizens from wearing masks. It's infection rate is currently 8000 per 1mil, putting it into the territory of Western nations. They have since reversed their policy on mask wearing in April, and have suffered a decline in infections since.

We really should be looking to our fellow members of the Asia-Pacific and fighting the pandemic as they successfully have, not how it's being fought in countries we traditionally considered as more similar (cough USA/UK cough).

[thenavman]

1. Why would you go to SA? The reason SA escaped from getting high number of cases is quite literally because no one goes there in my opinion. QLD, NSW, VIC got most of the cases purely for the fact that these 3 states get more international travellers hence more people carrying the virus. Note up until recently these were the only 3 states that were taking in any form of Repatriation flights.

They actually did pretty well over in SA if you look at the case numbers per capita. At the start of the pandemic they had the 2nd highest number of cases per capita and even now have had higher number of historical cases per capita than QLD, WA and NT. They had very high rates of testing and good contact tracing that got some genuine community transmission under control early on. Victoria on the other hand had very low rates of testing until the recent outbreak.

[Bend alot]

Here's some more data. Compared with the infection rates of East Asian nations that I posted in post #469 there's one outlier, Singapore. That nation had traditionally had a policy of discouraging their citizens from wearing masks. It's infection rate is currently 8000 per 1mil, putting it into the territory of Western nations. They have since reversed their policy on mask wearing in April, and have suffered a decline in infections since.

We really should be looking to our fellow members of the Asia-Pacific and fighting the pandemic as they successfully have, not how it's being fought in countries we traditionally considered as more similar (cough USA/UK cough).
Singapore had enviable rates even within Asia - Expat workers were and are still the downfall in "infection" rates. Death rates that are very close to the top and exceptionally low even within Asia.

And personally I trust Singapore's reported cases of infection and death rates more than some other Asian numbers reports

[42...]

why sure there is. Attached is the playbook commissioned by the Obama administration which shouldn’t be too hard to adopt to local needs. Of course the idiot Trump ignored all of it because: Obama

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6819268/Pandemic-Playbook.pdf



Oh, so please don't ignore while the plan was in place, it was never funded: Obama. To busy giving phones to his voters.

[Sunfish]

Private security guards were used in Melbourne because Minister Pakula is allegedly beholden to their union, at least according to the Liberals. Political correctness prevented reaching out to racial and religious non english speaking minorities as well.

The result is that the vector in Victoria has been the low paid immigrant workforce. Security guards, meat workers, and now assistants in aged care centers.

‘’It’s now about to go through prisons. Victoria police by the way has SFA masks available at present, so they can’t do much either.

[-41]

Oh, so please don't ignore while the plan was in place, it was never funded: Obama. To busy giving phones to his voters.
Your facts won't work here. Suggest you study the recent events in Portland, such a glowing example of the Left. Hasn't Fauci been in charge of pandemic response since hmmmmmm 1984? but yeah its all orange mans fault, Facebook tells me so.

[Turnleft080]

So Dan wants us to wear a mask while driving.

They found that about a third of the workers developed headaches with use of the mask, most had preexisting headaches that were worsened by the mask wearing, and 60% required pain medications for relief. As to the cause of the headaches, while straps and pressure from the mask could be causative, the bulk of the evidence points toward hypoxia and/or hypercapnia as the cause. That is, a reduction in blood oxygenation (hypoxia) or an elevation in blood C02 (hypercapnia). It is known that the N95 mask, if worn for hours, can reduce blood oxygenation as much as 20%, which can lead to a loss of consciousness, as happened to the hapless fellow driving around alone in his car wearing an N95 mask, causing him to pass out, and to crash his car and sustain injuries. I am sure that we have several cases of elderly individuals or any person with poor lung function passing out, hitting their head. This, of course, can lead to death.

Dr. Russell Blaylock, author of The Blaylock Wellness Report (https://w3.blaylockwellness.com/Health/BWR/Offers/BWR-Renewal/?oRef=mixi) newsletter, is a nationally recognized board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer.


I wish the that F wit turnleft would just POQ and just shut up he does not know what he is talking about. He is a terrible rat spreading all sorts of horse droppings.
Thanks Thisishardtochoose. Drive safely all and good health.

[rattman]

So Dan wants us to wear a mask while driving.

They found that about a third of the workers developed headaches with use of the mask, most had preexisting headaches that were worsened by the mask wearing, and 60% required pain medications for relief. As to the cause of the headaches, while straps and pressure from the mask could be causative, the bulk of the evidence points toward hypoxia and/or hypercapnia as the cause. That is, a reduction in blood oxygenation (hypoxia) or an elevation in blood C02 (hypercapnia). It is known that the N95 mask, if worn for hours, can reduce blood oxygenation as much as 20%, which can lead to a loss of consciousness, as happened to the hapless fellow driving around alone in his car wearing an N95 mask, causing him to pass out, and to crash his car and sustain injuries. I am sure that we have several cases of elderly individuals or any person with poor lung function passing out, hitting their head. This, of course, can lead to death.

Dr. Russell Blaylock, author of The Blaylock Wellness Report (https://w3.blaylockwellness.com/Health/BWR/Offers/BWR-Renewal/?oRef=mixi) newsletter, is a nationally recognized board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer.


I wish the that F wit turnleft would just POQ and just shut up he does not know what he is talking about. He is a terrible rat spreading all sorts of horse droppings.
Thanks Thisishardtochoose. Drive safely all and good health.



Ahhh yeah the chemtrails, antivaxor who is selling his own formulations that have 'excitotoxins' to promote regrowth of the brain

https://vaccineconspiracytheorist.********.com/2011/06/quack-of-day-dr-russell-blaylock.html

[blubak]

What would you like dan to do? There's no playbook for dealing with Pandemics, I sincerely hope we never have to go through one of these ever again but cut the man some slack. Not one other person would want to be in his position right now.
Realistically do you think he likes having to do all this??
Its easy for others to write on here & criticise but overall we should consider ourselves lucky we have someone who cares & is doing his best.
Yes of course hes made mistakes but is there anyone who hasnt.
Just on the subject of the BLM protestors-where are they all now?
Oh thats right,they are trying to find another reason to protest about now,the BLM issue has gone away,not important any more.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

So Dan wants us to wear a mask while driving.

They found that about a third of the workers developed headaches with use of the mask, most had preexisting headaches that were worsened by the mask wearing, and 60% required pain medications for relief. As to the cause of the headaches, while straps and pressure from the mask could be causative, the bulk of the evidence points toward hypoxia and/or hypercapnia as the cause. That is, a reduction in blood oxygenation (hypoxia) or an elevation in blood C02 (hypercapnia). It is known that the N95 mask, if worn for hours, can reduce blood oxygenation as much as 20%, which can lead to a loss of consciousness, as happened to the hapless fellow driving around alone in his car wearing an N95 mask, causing him to pass out, and to crash his car and sustain injuries. I am sure that we have several cases of elderly individuals or any person with poor lung function passing out, hitting their head. This, of course, can lead to death.

Dr. Russell Blaylock, author of The Blaylock Wellness Report (https://w3.blaylockwellness.com/Health/BWR/Offers/BWR-Renewal/?oRef=mixi) newsletter, is a nationally recognized board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer.


I wish the that F wit turnleft would just POQ and just shut up he does not know what he is talking about. He is a terrible rat spreading all sorts of horse droppings.
Thanks Thisishardtochoose. Drive safely all and good health.

Don’t surgeons wear masks for hours at a time?

if it really had the kind of effect you’re suggesting the entire medical industry would be screwed