All borders to reopen.

[aviation_enthus]

If a nationally consistent and effective response to a pandemic is not squarely within the Commonwealth’s executive power, I’ll cartwheel nude down Northbourne Avenue.

Some elements can be nationally consistent and within the Commonwealth’s executive power…
- quarantine arrangements
​​​​​​- border restrictions
​​​​​​- funding allocations for various extra health measures (Eg purchase of vaccines)

Actually paying medical staff to run health departments is NOT, hence its subject to the whims of various Premiers.

The Commonwealth has already differed and f****d around with their responsibilities, why do you think a “national approach” would make us better off?!

Plus I think some of the response to a pandemic SHOULD be more local. Australia is a massive country, restrictions in Perth wouldn’t even be relevant to Broome, let alone the East Coast. Within QLD is hard enough with 2000 km between Brisbane and Cairns.

To be honest, why can’t we have some states trying things slightly differently? I think it’s actually a strength having this flexibility within our system of government. How else would we find out if different measures are better or worse in the Australian context?

For all the drama in the USA, they had 50 states doing their own thing with regards to local lockdowns, masks, restrictions, etc. The information that comes out of various reviews over the next 6-12 months will be fascinating.



It’s just that Scotty wants to be able to spread the blame.

Yes!
But…
It also requires the Premiers to do their jobs, in the areas allocated to them (like the health response!) arguably most have been struggling with that too…

[Lead Balloon]

The top search response is for the Australian Parliament House's Parliamentary Paper No 63 - Commonwealth Executive Power and Accountability Following Williams (No 2) (https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Senate/Powers_practice_n_procedures/pops/pop63/c07) (where Williams (No 2) is Williams v Commonwealth (No. 2) (2014) 252 CLR 416, as opposed to Williams v Commonwealth (2012) 248 CLR 156 (Williams (No. 1)).

Apart from the problem that "nationhood power" is essentially a legal construct that sits outside of the Constitution, there's prior High Court precedent, specifically Williams (Nos 1 and 2), that has found that the concept of a "nationhood power" does not trump the the division of legislative responsibilities spelled out in S.51. In the cases where the High Court has found that the "nationhood power" provides a legitimate basis for the Commonwealth exercising a power not otherwise articulated it has been largely related to S.61 - for example, Davis v Commonwealth (1988) 166 CLR 97 regards the Commonwealth's power to establish the Australian Bicentennial Authority.

Then there's the matter of what exactly is "nationhood power"? The High Court has found that it is an implied executive power derived, in part, from Australia’s national status. And the only reason that the concept of "nationhood power" gets a run is that when the Constitution Act was passed in 1901, there were certain external national powers that Australia could not at that time exercise. For example, at the time Australia could not declare war or enter treaties. It was only after the retreat of the Crown through things like the Imperial Conferences of 1926 and 1930, the passage of the Statute of Westminster and the corresponding Australian legislation, the Statute of Westminster (Adoption) Act, and finally the Australia Acts, that Australia had the opportunity to fully exercise external powers.

With regards to what exactly falls under "nationhood power", the High Court routinely relies on a definition provided by Justice Mason in Victoria v Commonwealth and Hayden (the AAP Case) (1975) 134 CLR 338; specifically he describd it as ‘a capacity to engage in enterprises and activities peculiarly adapted to the government of a nation and which cannot otherwise be carried on for the benefit of the nation'. It's often referred to as 'peculiarly adapted' test although the 'which cannot otherwise be carried on' element is also important.

On the basis that a determination on how best to manage health matters had been made at the outset of federation, there's an argument that the 'peculiarly adapted' test was done and dusted 120 years ago - the determination was that the Commonwealth was not 'peculiarly adapted' to manage the nation's health, that would be an activity that would be 'otherwise be carried on for the benefit of the nation' by the states. The fact that that arrangement was tested by a pandemic less than two decades later could be seen as an argument in its favour.

Further, without having to invoke "nationhood power" to support a Federal power grab, there are a range of mechanisms to provide for a nationally coordinated and effective response to national health emergencies, things like the Australian Health Ministers’ Advisory Council, the Australian Health Protection Principal Committee, the Advisory Committee on Vaccines and the like.


That'd be a matter for the High Court - just in case, you would probably want a summer hearing on the matter.
The High Court ultimately decides these things? Who knew?

It’s as nearly as startling a revelation as viruses being virulent.

I’m not sure how a Schools Chaplaincy Programme has quite the national significance as an existential threat like a pandemic. But I suppose it depends on one’s religious views. Perhaps Chaplains can pray our way out of the pandemic.

Any second year law student analysis of the vertical fiscal imbalance and section 96 of the Constitution, and the implications for the Commonwealth’s powers?

Aviation enthus: 18 months in, and we don’t have a nationally-consistent definition and understanding of what an essential worker is. Brilliant. And it’s not a ‘one or the other’ (Federal or State) doing ‘everything’ argument. It’s about who should be in charge and why.

[mattyj]

Please do yourself a favour and read the Australian Constitution.


..don’t do that! If you ever wanted to stand for public office that would make you ineligible

[Turnleft080]

A bit like a PROB40 on a TAF yeah?
:}
I will wether that.
Thanks Mr Dot.

PROB40 TEMPO 1623/1703 SEV TURB NSW/VIC REGION FROM ASSOCIATED POLITICAL TROUGH

[Green.Dot]

I will wether that.
Thanks Mr Dot.

PROB40 TEMPO 1623/1703 SEV TURB NSW/VIC REGION FROM ASSOCIATED POLITICAL TROUGH

Ha ha, good one. If only COVID was a TEMPO

[SHVC]

Ouch, 19 new cases for Vic seems to be running away already. NSW predicted to have 111 today. Liberal Vs Labor battle techniques, who will win.

[Foxxster]

Ouch, 19 new cases for Vic seems to be running away already. NSW predicted to have 111 today. Liberal Vs Labor battle techniques, who will win.

well given that number for NSW , expected as it is, we will definitely see harsher measures announced this morning. Which I suspect will look VERY much like the current Victorian ones….

[SHVC]

Fox, I bloody hope so. I’m a Glady fan but SY ppl are not doing the right thing and she is worried about upsetting them. Time to close everything down tonight, if she does we could come out of this by early September if she doesn’t well this will dribble on well into 2022 and NSW being locked out of rest of the country.

[Liklik balus]

Buckle up people!!
The Victorian lockdown will be extended AT LEAST until next weekend, maybe longer......and so I do advise. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!!!

[Foxxster]

Fox, I bloody hope so. I’m a Glady fan but SY ppl are not doing the right thing and she is worried about upsetting them. Time to close everything down tonight, if she does we could come out of this by early September if she doesn’t well this will dribble on well into 2022 and NSW being locked out of rest of the country.

you can put your house on it, assuming you still have it… we will be in FULL, proper lockdown this time tomorrow. Will be announced this morning… major embarrassment to Gladys. And the nsw health experts. Again. Remember why we are in this cluster …. in the first place.

[MickG0105]

The High Court ultimately decides these things? Who knew?

It’s as nearly as startling a revelation as viruses being virulent.

Yes, I know. I have this propensity to state facts, even going so far as stating what might be self-evident to some ... as terrible as it is I've got to say that I still find it preferable to the alternatives.


Any second year law student analysis of the vertical fiscal imbalance and section 96 of the Constitution, and the implications for the Commonwealth’s powers?

Apologies but I don't know any second year law students.


I’m not sure how a Schools Chaplaincy Programme has quite the national significance as an existential threat like a pandemic. But I suppose it depends on one’s religious views. Perhaps Chaplains can pray our way out of the pandemic.

If you do manage to find a second year law student get them to explain the doctrine of precedent and legal principles. You might also consider what former Chief Justice Spigelman noted on the topic of trying to do end runs on the Constitution:It is not permissible to approach the Constitution on the basis that whatever is in the institutional interests of the Commonwealth must be the law.

[SOPS]

you can put your house on it, assuming you still have it… we will be in FULL, proper lockdown this time tomorrow. Will be announced this morning… major embarrassment to Gladys. And the nsw health experts. Again. Remember why we are in this cluster …. in the first place.


I really hope Gladys wakes up today.

[PoppaJo]

Victoria will have problems with leakage for as long as this is alive in Sydney. It will be a question of how many days post this short lockdown, they go before the next leak arrives. Sydney are stuck with this active in the community for at least August and into September. How do we protect Victoria for those two months?.

Would be great if we could invest in rapid testing. If the FedEx crew had been, the chances of all this going on would have been greatly reduced. All foreign based aircrew should be at a minimum on arrival and exit. They are only here for 24/48 hrs.

Brisbane to Cairns set to be the number one route again

[ScepticalOptomist]

Or we could actually stop panicking about “cases” and accept that the horse has bolted.

The elderly are mostly protected now, and out of all the “young” infected, none have died. A zero CFR.

Time to get a grip and stop being so scared by the scary media reporting.

[-41]

Victoria will have problems with leakage for as long as this is alive in Sydney. It will be a question of how many days post this short lockdown, they go before the next leak arrives. Sydney are stuck with this active in the community for at least August and into September. How do we protect Victoria for those two months?.

Would be great if we could invest in rapid testing. If the FedEx crew had been, the chances of all this going on would have been greatly reduced. All foreign based aircrew should be at a minimum on arrival and exit. They are only here for 24/48 hrs.

Brisbane to Cairns set to be the number one route again

I stopped following the NSW debacle, is there any credible evidence detailing the FedEx crew tested positive in AUSTRALIA other than what been implied by the political press release. I did read a article where an Independent journalist was unable to attain any proof from the NSW government Or FedEx to back up this claim.

The horse has bolted through the gate, however the timeline is interesting as I would have expected international crew to be CV tested on arrival. My personal experience has been they take less than 12 hours for a text message response from the lab following the test at the domestic terminal. Surely a international crew would have then been advised via public health officials to isolate or been quarantined to prevent transmission by the crew.

How long would a freight crew layover be ? Why did the test results take longer than the layover in this case, I get mine prior to sign on for the next day.

.

[Green.Dot]

NSW predicted to have 111 today.

you have a reliable insider! Rarely seen on this site!

[Foxxster]

NSW ..111 new cases, 29 in community. Premiers press conference..

further actions from today..

until July 30, people in western Sydney 3 local govt areas have to stay …cannot leave for work or any other reason unless health or emergency workers. Liverpool, Bankstown and one other..

from midnight, only CRITICAL retail to remain open… they have a list of what is critical on website.

no car pooling allowed

until July 30, NO CONSTRUCTION WORK, at all across Sydney. Including large construction ie commercial sites. Plus residential. Except emergency repairs.

of course July 30 will be a moveable date…

[Torukmacto]

At some stage ( hopefully soon ) numbers won’t be released . It’s here to stay . Get on with it should be the line from Goverment.

[Foxxster]

At some stage ( hopefully soon ) numbers won’t be released . It’s here to stay . Get on with it should be the line from Goverment.


won’t be until December at the earliest. We need to get vaccinated rate right up to at least around 60%+ probably more like 70%. I would think around feb or March next year..

gladys has mentioned 80% which is ridiculous. That would take us until this time next year as I suspect rates will start to flatten right off once we get around the 65% to 70% mark.

[SOPS]

NSW ..111 new cases, 29 in community. Premiers press conference..

further actions from today..

until July 30, people in western Sydney 3 local govt areas have to stay …cannot leave for work or any other reason unless health or emergency workers. Liverpool, Bankstown and one other..

from midnight, only CRITICAL retail to remain open… they have a list of what is critical on website.

no car pooling allowed

until July 30, NO CONSTRUCTION WORK, at all across Sydney. Including large construction ie commercial sites. Plus residential. Except emergency repairs.

of course July 30 will be a moveable date…


That must have hurt Gladys to say that. I wonder if people will obey.

[Foxxster]

That must have hurt Gladys to say that. I wonder if people will obey.


yep, just waiting for a gloating response from chairman Dan. He won’t be able to resist. Maybe the chook will chime in as well although she will probably keep quiet as she is off to Japan is she not.

as for people obeying. Well hmmm. They have had quite a police presence out west recently. Western Sydney that is.

[Turnleft080]

won’t be until December at the earliest. We need to get vaccinated rate right up to at least around 60%+ probably more like 70%. I would think around feb or March next year..

gladys has mentioned 80% which is ridiculous. That would take us until this time next year as I suspect rates will start to flatten right off once we get around the 70% mark.

70%. We have that already in the over 70 population. If you mentioned that 12 months ago, oh yes, that would warrant all borders to open.
You take that any day. Though not today because the goal posts change daily on the rhetoric of suppression forget bending the curve.

[PoppaJo]

Popcorn and Sky News tonight lol.

[SHVC]

Have the Alpha and Beta strains fizzled out or attained herd immunity? what I'm trying to ask, is this virus like an annual influenza that mutates except C-19 mutates quicker?

[blubak]

yep, just waiting for a gloating response from chairman Dan. He won’t be able to resist. Maybe the chook will chime in as well although she will probably keep quiet as she is off to Japan is she not.

as for people obeying. Well hmmm. They have had quite a police presence out west recently. Western Sydney that is.
Had a listen to nsw presser & now the vic 1.
To be honest i still think Gladys is trying to be nice & taking a soft approach,the facts & answers coming from the vic officials are very matter of fact & they definitely seem to be right up with whats happening.
There is no doubt that the average person must do the right thing & hopefully that happens.
It was mentioned that somebody did a runner at melb airport on wed night,that somebody is now $5k out of pocket!

[Max Tow]

won’t be until December at the earliest. We need to get vaccinated rate right up to at least around 60%+ probably more like 70%. I would think around feb or March next year..

gladys has mentioned 80% which is ridiculous. That would take us until this time next year as I suspect rates will start to flatten right off once we get around the 65% to 70% mark.

Yes, but the problem is that there is no road-map from our squabbling leaders showing what happens when we reach a stage where all who wish to be vaccinated have been offered the jabs. That will probably get stuck at around the 60-70% seen in other countries, given the hold-outs and the thoroughly confused messages. When this happens, hopefully by year end, I suspect the majority of the population will have had enough of the endless "whack-a-mole" of lockdowns, however justifiable these were in the pre-vax times.

Currently the push to get vaccinated is all "stick" (getting or spreading the virus is a bad thing) and no "carrot" (when you and x% of us are vaccinated, you'll be able to do things that the unvaccinated can't). Hence we have the ridiculous Catch-22 of airlines being grounded because people are saying that there's no point in getting vaccinated because they still won't be able to travel.

What I'd like to see is for the government to set a target date by which it expects all to have been offered vaccination, after which we will for a while move on to a two-tier level of activity, much as we do with smokers and non-smokers. Sure, there are those few who cannot be vaccinated for genuine health reasons, but as with other diseases, their best defence is to be surrounded by as many as possible who have been protected. For those able but unwilling, fair enough, you are free to make your own decisions, but life for the rest of us will at some stage just have to move on. The average annual death toll in Oz from flu is reckoned to be around 2k pre-covid, so I guess that sets a benchmark for what will be acceptable.

As one with perhaps two or three decades left on this earth, I'm pretty near done with holding the pause button.

[Green.Dot]

This isn’t rocket science. End of 2021 everybody who is vaccinated gets a 2k rebate. Everybody who hasn’t pays a 2k levy. People that haven’t had the pain of extended lockdown, still working and think their state is “safe” should be able to easily afford it.

[Foxxster]

First case of WuHu flu in the Olympics village. And the games haven’t even started yet. What a fecking sick joke this farce is going ahead.

[DirectAnywhere]

Had a listen to nsw presser & now the vic 1.
To be honest i still think Gladys is trying to be nice & taking a soft approach,the facts & answers coming from the vic officials are very matter of fact & they definitely seem to be right up with whats happening.

To be fair, the Vic staff have had much more practice at delivering bad news, but there is no doubt their comms are far stronger than NSW at the moment.

This morning's press conferences were a stark contrast. Removing the NSW premier and VIC minister from consideration, while I have no doubt Kerry Chant is very capable, her public speaking is simply poor. She stumbles over words and can't structure a phrase on the fly to clearly communicate her point to the level that some of what she says is incomprehensible.

Jeroen Weimar on the other hand is clear, succinct and well across his brief. He doesn't waffle, provides straight answers to straight questions and isn't afraid to say if he doesn't know. He exudes confidence and control.

[jrfsp]

What the hell is wrong with people:

Breaking: Police have charged three removalists who allegedly knew they had COVID-19 but still travelled from Sydney to the state’s Central West.Just after 2:30pm yesterday, officers spoke to four men in Molong, about 300km from Sydney, after receiving information they had travelled from West Hoxton, in the Liverpool local government area (LGA).

These men are not the removalists that travelled from NSW to Victoria, sparking an outbreak there.

[SOPS]

What the hell is wrong with people:

Breaking: Police have charged three removalists who allegedly knew they had COVID-19 but still travelled from Sydney to the state’s Central West.Just after 2:30pm yesterday, officers spoke to four men in Molong, about 300km from Sydney, after receiving information they had travelled from West Hoxton, in the Liverpool local government area (LGA).

These men are not the removalists that travelled from NSW to Victoria, sparking an outbreak there.

I am starting to think the problem lies in the fact there is a group of people who dont think any of this alpplies to them.

[Bend alot]

Is it clear?

Can we work at Bankstown Airport on Monday?

[blubak]

To be fair, the Vic staff have had much more practice at delivering bad news, but there is no doubt their comms are far stronger than NSW at the moment.

This morning's press conferences were a stark contrast. Removing the NSW premier and VIC minister from consideration, while I have no doubt Kerry Chant is very capable, her public speaking is simply poor. She stumbles over words and can't structure a phrase on the fly to clearly communicate her point to the level that some of what she says is incomprehensible.

Jeroen Weimar on the other hand is clear, succinct and well across his brief. He doesn't waffle, provides straight answers to straight questions and isn't afraid to say if he doesn't know. He exudes confidence and control.
Yes,the vic officials are better versed at delivering bad news,cant argue with that.
And your comparison between Kerry Chant & Weimar is pretty spot on,her stumbling & hesitation makes listening very hard & from then on in her message is basically lost.
Not an easy job im sure but if she wants people to take notice i think she needs to improve or appoint somebody else to speak.

[blubak]

I am starting to think the problem lies in the fact there is a group of people who dont think any of this alpplies to them.
I am sure that is the case,it seems there is always somebody who thinks its all a joke or the rules arent for them & they know best.
Of course if they get fined or questioned,they then claim victimisation & of course there are lots that listen.

[mattyj]

The vaccines only stop you from getting hospital level disease..it’s doing zero to stop the positive cases and zero to stop transmission..see Israel, UK, California etc..get vaccinated if you like..it’s not going to end the pandemic

[Max Tow]

The vaccines only stop you from getting hospital level disease..it’s doing zero to stop the positive cases and zero to stop transmission..see Israel, UK, California etc..get vaccinated if you like..it’s not going to end the pandemic


Thanks for that. Your reported combination of effects (reduction in level of severity for those vaccinated) & non-effects (but having a vaccinated majority will not reduce the rate of transmission with severe consequences to the non-vaccinated) is one of the best arguments I've heard for getting off the fence....

If there are few hospitalisations, the number of positive cases will become less newsworthy - who counts flu & cold cases these days?

[mattyj]

The media..it’s their new thing

[jrfsp]

So while lots of aussies cannot get home - we allow trolls like this sky news favourite into the country (how on earth were they granted entry) - deliberately trying to break the HQ rules

https://www.smh.com.au/national/katie-hopkins-admits-to-breaking-hotel-quarantine-rules-in-sydney-20210717-p58al3.html

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/katie-hopkins-trolls-sydneys-lockdown-from-hotel-quarantine/news-story/5b5d8398e3255a8407d848eb1f2a44cb (https://www.smh.com.au/national/katie-hopkins-admits-to-breaking-hotel-quarantine-rules-in-sydney-20210717-p58al3.html)

[SOPS]

So while lots of aussies cannot get home - we allow trolls like this sky news favourite into the country (how on earth were they granted entry) - deliberately trying to break the HQ rules

https://www.smh.com.au/national/katie-hopkins-admits-to-breaking-hotel-quarantine-rules-in-sydney-20210717-p58al3.html

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/katie-hopkins-trolls-sydneys-lockdown-from-hotel-quarantine/news-story/5b5d8398e3255a8407d848eb1f2a44cb (https://www.smh.com.au/national/katie-hopkins-admits-to-breaking-hotel-quarantine-rules-in-sydney-20210717-p58al3.html)
She should be put on the next plane out.

[MickG0105]

The vaccines only stop you from getting hospital level disease..it’s doing zero to stop the positive cases and zero to stop transmission..see Israel, UK, California etc..
"... a growing body of evidence suggests that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines also reduce asymptomatic infection and transmission. Substantial reductions in SARS-CoV-2 infections (both symptomatic and asymptomatic) will reduce overall levels of disease, and therefore, viral transmission in the United States. However, investigations are ongoing to assess further the impact of COVID-19 vaccination on transmission." CDC Science Brief: COVID-19 Vaccines and Vaccination (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html)

​​​​​​"... In April, Public Health England reported results of a large study of COVID-19 transmission involving more than 365,000 households with a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated members. It found immunisation with either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine reduced the chance of onward virus transmission by 40–60%." Royal Australian College of General Practitioners, Mounting evidence suggests COVID vaccines do reduce transmission (https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/mounting-evidence-suggests-covid-vaccines-do-reduc)

Just because people who have been vaccinated are returning positive test results (breakthrough infections) does not mean that vaccination is doing zero to stop transmission. The incidence of breakthrough infections tells you nothing about onward transmission.

[SHVC]

Interesting read. Also, all the trick drivers in protest today in sydney this afternoon of loosing pay and work. Now some workers outside aviation and tourism are affected they can have a taste of what we have been experiencing. Hopefully more get vaccinated out of it.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/world/north-america/the-us-is-seeing-a-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated-as-covid-cases-increase-in-49-states-20210717-p58ail.html

[Max Tow]

MickG0105: Bravo, but your ever patient and courteous explanations do rather remind me of Brad Raffensperger trying to explain vote integrity to Donald Trump.

[PoppaJo]

105 cases tomorrow according to Mr TikTok.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Interesting read. Also, all the trick drivers in protest today in sydney this afternoon of loosing pay and work. Now some workers outside aviation and tourism are affected they can have a taste of what we have been experiencing. Hopefully more get vaccinated out of it.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/world/north-america/the-us-is-seeing-a-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated-as-covid-cases-increase-in-49-states-20210717-p58ail.html


Those poor truck drivers losing 2 weeks worth of work… my heart bleeds.

[SHVC]

My heart does not!

[blubak]

Interesting read. Also, all the trick drivers in protest today in sydney this afternoon of loosing pay and work. Now some workers outside aviation and tourism are affected they can have a taste of what we have been experiencing. Hopefully more get vaccinated out of it.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/world/north-america/the-us-is-seeing-a-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated-as-covid-cases-increase-in-49-states-20210717-p58ail.html
If my short term memory serves me correctly,wasnt it truck drivers that caused a lot of this particularly a few who had a work permit but decided they didnt like the rules.
Also,heard some yelling & shouting relating to human rights coming from a group in 1 of the 3 locked down LGA's in sydney.
Fair chance the rules dont suit them either & as you say it will give them a taste of what many aviation workers are still going through.

[blubak]

105 cases tomorrow according to Mr TikTok.
16 in vic today,all linked to current outbreak.
Just on the nsw issue,i read Gladys said she didnt enforce a stricter lockdown sooner because she didnt have health advice to do it,thats a worry!

[Chronic Snoozer]

16 in vic today,all linked to current outbreak.
Just on the nsw issue,i read Gladys said she didnt enforce a stricter lockdown sooner because she didnt have health advice to do it,thats a worry!

Why? At least that is consistent with what she has been saying all along.

[Torukmacto]

Canadian friend of mine just landed in Canada from Asia where he was fully vaccinated then tested at airport on arrival and walking the streets a few hours later , no quarantine for returning nationals who are vaccinated. He was not vaccinated in Canada . Seeing his elderly mother and some business the back to Asia . No fuss no mass hysteria no threats just common sense from a country who are living with it and getting on with life . Australia will get there in time .

[Turnleft080]

105 cases tomorrow according to Mr TikTok.
Spot on brother. Any chance of Tattslotto numbers.

[PoppaJo]

Spot on brother. Any chance of Tattslotto numbers.
Not me. Check this funny blokes social channels at about 10pm and you can miss the circus the following day at 11am.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jonbernardk/status/1416373982744367109

[Lead Balloon]

It will be interesting to see what happens during Eid al Adha in Sydney, due to start tomorrow but depending on the sighting of the moon. Some people take God’s laws more seriously than e.g. Gladys’s laws.

(Cue Mick to manage the message on Islamic rules and traditions during Eid al Adha and their relationship with man-made laws…)

[turbantime]

Looks like we’re in this mess for longer

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-18/freedom-day-looms-in-england-despite-coronavirus-surge/100295326?utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web

[Turnleft080]

It will be interesting to see what happens during Eid al Adha in Sydney, due to start tomorrow but depending on the sighting of the moon. Some people take God’s laws more seriously than e.g. Gladys’s laws.

(Cue Mick to manage the message on Islamic rules and traditions during Eid al Adha and their relationship with man-made laws…)
Gladys having Armenian heritage, why not it's a claytons lockdown anyway start cooking those kababs, inshallah.

[Redongo]

She should be put on the next plane out.

Probably what’s she’s after…. Free publicity!!

Nothing to see here…. Move on

[WingNut60]

Canadian friend of mine just landed in Canada from Asia where he was fully vaccinated then tested at airport on arrival and walking the streets a few hours later , no quarantine for returning nationals who are vaccinated. He was not vaccinated in Canada . Seeing his elderly mother and some business the back to Asia . No fuss no mass hysteria no threats just common sense from a country who are living with it and getting on with life . Australia will get there in time .
Flying in from Asia to, let's say, Vancouver.
1761 deaths so far.

Yep, any Australian city could have that too.
If it was really that important that someone should have the right to enter without quarantine.

And you failed to mention that this arrangement has only been in place since 05 July.

[Foxxster]

Looks like we’re in this mess for longer

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-18/freedom-day-looms-in-england-despite-coronavirus-surge/100295326?utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web


Not interested in number of cases. Number of hospital admissions and deaths are the important numbers. Both of which are down substantially in relation to the number of cases. And the uk is around 53% fully vaccinated. So the number admitted to hospital and the number of deaths will fall even further for a given number of cases once that % gets to the required number of about 70%.

we won’t be there until at least December, more like February next year.

Netherlands is only about 43% fully vaccinated.

[WingNut60]

16 in vic today,all linked to current outbreak.
Just on the nsw issue,i read Gladys said she didnt enforce a stricter lockdown sooner because she didnt have health advice to do it,thats a worry!

Yes, a real worry. When the talking head that you've appointed to give you the advice that you appointed her to give fails to give you that advice.

[Foxxster]

It will be interesting to see what happens during Eid al Adha in Sydney, due to start tomorrow but depending on the sighting of the moon. Some people take God’s laws more seriously than e.g. Gladys’s laws.

(Cue Mick to manage the message on Islamic rules and traditions during Eid al Adha and their relationship with man-made laws…)


the areas under most restrictions in western Sydney contains the same area that had the highest recruitment for ISIS, was where the people that protested in Sydney holding up behead all infidels signs, oh that was their 5 year old children holding up those signs, and who have already held a protest yesterday against the latest measures.

Now most people living there are not like that, but there are at least several hundred who are. At least.

[Green.Dot]

Looks like we’re in this mess for longer

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-18/freedom-day-looms-in-england-despite-coronavirus-surge/100295326?utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web

Yet another Australian media scare mongering campaign almost purely focussing on case numbers. I don’t think now is the time to let COVID run its course in Aus with our currently pitiful vaccination stats but I certainly think the UK is justified in its actions.

[Torukmacto]

Flying in from Asia to, let's say, Vancouver.
1761 deaths so far.

Yep, any Australian city could have that too.
If it was really that important that someone should have the right to enter without quarantine.

And you failed to mention that this arrangement has only been in place since 05 July.

Toronto is where he is . Many older people die and some have coronavirus it’s sad but a fact of life . Vaccinations and some basic precautions will improve chances .

[MickG0105]

Gladys having Armenian heritage, why not it's a claytons lockdown anyway start cooking those kababs, inshallah.
She's a Christian, Armenian Apostolic, but sure, a bit of thread drift into religion will doubtless lift the tone.

[Lead Balloon]

Indeed. And the one true religion - Pastafarianism - provides the explanation for and solution to Covid-19. Blessed be the Quob!

[Turnleft080]

She's a Christian, Armenian Apostolic, but sure, a bit of thread drift into religion will doubtless lift the tone.
Yep, first state to adopt christianity in year 301AD. They also have traditions to celebrate throughout the year.
Back to the topic, as the above news item mentioned, the English are opening up at 53% vaxed. Australia are at 13%. So 40% to go.
Thats if our fantastic health advisers are in line with the British experts.

[Bend alot]

Is it clear?

Can we work at Bankstown Airport on Monday?
Was a serious question and non the wiser.

[Foxxster]

Was a serious question and non the wiser.

not sure the exact nature of your question however if you work in one of the infected, sorry affected areas in western Sydney currently under house arrest then you can still enter the danger zone and work and return home as usual.

which yes, sounds completely ridiculous but there you are. If that doesn’t answer your question, please be more specific.

[Redongo]

I see that various politicians are hyperventilating about deporting Katie Hopkins after her (taking the p**s) comments from Hotel quarantine…. That exactly what she wants…free publicity!

Move on…nothing to see here. Ignore.

More importantly I was interested to see that apparently the NSW Govt has made an exception to caps on entry from overseas for “Big Brother” Contestants to Australia… good to see the famous Australian double standards are still diligently being applied! Oh dear.

[WingNut60]

Toronto is where he is . Many older people die and some have coronavirus it’s sad but a fact of life . Vaccinations and some basic precautions will improve chances .
I remember an old rationalisation that was sort of folklore in Thailand that allowed devout Buddhists to eat fish.
The rationalisation was, that they would have drowned anyway.

The assertion that it's "only older people and they would have died anyway" reminds me of that rationisation.
It flies in the face of common morality but, hey, if it suits your argument.........................

One thing is certain, that without massively increased vaccination rates, either in Toronto or Sydney, infection rates, hospitalisations and additional deaths will not be improved by loosening travel restrictions.

And for the record, while case rates in Ontario are reasonably stable at the moment, of the additional 176 cases on Friday, just 21 were over the age of 60.
33 were school-aged. Of which, 15 were aged between 4 and 8 years old.

[Bend alot]

not sure the exact nature of your question however if you work in one of the infected, sorry affected areas in western Sydney currently under house arrest then you can still enter the danger zone and work and return home as usual.

which yes, sounds completely ridiculous but there you are. If that doesn’t answer your question, please be more specific.

I did expect the answer to be ridiculous - thanks for confirmation.

[Aussie Bob]

“the truth is that while many people will contract this virus that it’s clear, just as people get the flu each year, it is a more severe condition than the flu, but for the vast majority … around 8 in 10 is our advice, it will be a mild illness and it will pass.”

Not me, this was one Scott Morrison in March last year. Nothing has changed except he was being pessimistic. About 1 in 10 might get something a bit more severe than the flu and about 1 in 500 might end up in hospital. The vast majority will not even get it. Don't take my word for it, just watch the stats that the ABC is giving us. Over 1000 "cases" in NSW so far, the majority of which had to have the test just to find out they are in fact "a case". After a positive test they are sent home to isolate. Oh, and we have had a death, a lady in her '90s. There is an enormous difference between a "case" and someone sick with covid.

For this we are expected to take a vaccine that is not a vaccine but a new MRA, never tried before experiment that will only protect us from others that have had the same "vaccine".

Let's open up all the borders and end the lockdowns now please.

[chookcooker]

Not me, this was one Scott Morrison in March last year. Nothing has changed except he was being pessimistic. About 1 in 10 might get something a bit more severe than the flu and about 1 in 500 might end up in hospital. The vast majority will not even get it. Don't take my word for it, just watch the stats that the ABC is giving us. Over 1000 "cases" in NSW so far, the majority of which had to have the test just to find out they are in fact "a case". After a positive test they are sent home to isolate. Oh, and we have had a death, a lady in her '90s. There is an enormous difference between a "case" and someone sick with covid.

For this we are expected to take a vaccine that is not a vaccine but a new MRA, never tried before experiment that will only protect us from others that have had the same "vaccine".

Let's open up all the borders and end the lockdowns now please.
none of this is accurate.

[mattyj]

I don’t know why people keep quoting such low numbers for the UK..they have huge numbers of vaccinated

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833


So far, more than 46 million people have had a first vaccine dose - almost 90% of the adult population - and more than 35 million - around two-thirds of adults - have had both doses.


still on a massive cases spike (even though cases don’t, and never have, actually meant anything)

[PoppaJo]

Potentially highly sensationalist garbage, however Seven News this evening at 830pm a story on FedEx Flight 77

https://mobile.twitter.com/7NewsSpotlight/status/1416192204347895809

[blubak]

Yes, a real worry. When the talking head that you've appointed to give you the advice that you appointed her to give fails to give you that advice.
I wonder what her advice will be after she sees the footage of bondi today,hundreds walking around,very few masks,surfboards being carried around,got to get out in the sun i guess,why would you bother staying home??
Admittedly melb weather was cool today but when i walked to my local park there were people out however i would say mask wearing was at least 98%,i just wonder why its so hard in nsw for people to get the message.

[Aussie Bob]

none of this is accurate.

Non of any of this is accurate. The truth is, nobody knows what the truth is. I certainly don't, I post opinion! Feel free to disagree.

[Ladloy]

Not me, this was one Scott Morrison in March last year. Nothing has changed except he was being pessimistic. About 1 in 10 might get something a bit more severe than the flu and about 1 in 500 might end up in hospital. The vast majority will not even get it. Don't take my word for it, just watch the stats that the ABC is giving us. Over 1000 "cases" in NSW so far, the majority of which had to have the test just to find out they are in fact "a case". After a positive test they are sent home to isolate. Oh, and we have had a death, a lady in her '90s. There is an enormous difference between a "case" and someone sick with covid.

For this we are expected to take a vaccine that is not a vaccine but a new MRA, never tried before experiment that will only protect us from others that have had the same "vaccine".

Let's open up all the borders and end the lockdowns now please.
As of right now 1 in 17 cases are in hospital and that's early figures as there's a lag in hospitalitions. 18 in ICU, 7 on ventilators (flip a coin on survival if you get to the ventilator). As for saying people are taking the test without expecting a positive result, I'm sure by week two it's not just a 'case'. The wprst part of the disease is in the second or third week, while most getting tested are early into their dirst week.

Long term, persistent symptoms known as Long covid are found in 1 in 5 cases. Serious heart issues and lung issues are to be expected by long covid. Give me the jab and I'll be happy to end lockdowns and open borders.

[PoppaJo]

According to the Kairouz Probability Theorem we have a total of 109 cases tomorrow

[Turnleft080]

According to the Kairouz Probability Theorem we have a total of 109 cases tomorrow
In that case, Gladys, don't bother with tomorrow's presser, just use today's and dubb 105 to 109.

[SHVC]

With 109 cases consistently being around the 100 for a week now Melbourne on a knifes edge. This will only take 60 days to get under control and be allowed to travel again. Two biggest city’s out now Aiviation back to a stand still almost.

[blubak]

With 109 cases consistently being around the 100 for a week now Melbourne on a knifes edge. This will only take 60 days to get under control and be allowed to travel again. Two biggest city’s out now Aiviation back to a stand still almost.
Like somebody previously posted,nobody really knows what the truth is so we have to go with opinions & some we agree with & some we dont so heres mine.
It is true that vic is on a knife edge but it seems like the community transmission is well under control whereas in nsw at least 25% of the daily cases have been out doing their own thing(take a look at bondi yesterday) which of course relates to the willingness of people to listen to advice.

[aviation_enthus]

For this we are expected to take a vaccine that is not a vaccine but a new MRA, never tried before experiment that will only protect us from others that have had the same "vaccine".

The mRNA “vaccines” are not new… They also been tried before…

“While an mRNA vaccine has never been on the market anywhere in the world, mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans before, for at least four infectious diseases: rabies, influenza, cytomegalovirus, and Zika.”

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/89998

The reason none of these went into full production was a lack of urgency or money. There’s already a “normal” vaccine for rabies and influenza, Zika virus basically ceased to be a threat.

The MASSIVE difference with the mRNA Coronavirus vaccines is the huge amount of money throw at them and the orders placed by the US Government to ensure they got developed as fast as science would allow.

The idea for mRNA vaccines was thought up in the early 1990’s. There has been 30 years of research and development to get to the point of allowing the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines to be created so fast.

Moderna (the company) was set up in 2010 with the aim of bringing mRNA drugs to market. They had already started to pivot towards vaccines prior to 2019.

BioNTech was also set up to take advantage of the development of mRNA in medicine.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

While the COVID vaccines may be the first approved mRNA vaccines, the technology behind them has been under development for decades. Just shows what a lot of money and attention can do…

[DirectAnywhere]

Like somebody previously posted,nobody really knows what the truth is so we have to go with opinions & some we agree with & some we dont so heres mine.
It is true that vic is on a knife edge but it seems like the community transmission is well under control whereas in nsw at least 25% of the daily cases have been out doing their own thing(take a look at bondi yesterday) which of course relates to the willingness of people to listen to advice.

Vic seems to be largely on top of this. I think we can expect a few days extension perhaps but it looks pretty good to be done within two weeks.

NSW is a mess and will be for weeks at the very least, if not months. Gladys is rattled. Communication is poor. Messaging is getting lost.

The message for governments is now stark and very clear - any community transmission, lock down immediately to minimise both the health and economic impacts, at least until an appropriate percentage of the population is vaccinated, whatever that may be.

[blubak]

According to the Kairouz Probability Theorem we have a total of 109 cases tomorrow
13 cases in vic today,all linked to current outbreak.
Almost 55000 tests yesterday so definitely heading the right way.

[SHVC]

NSW is out for at least 12 weeks. Vic will be back in two. My tik tok prediction.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

The message for governments is now stark and very clear - any community transmission, lock down immediately to minimise both the health and economic impacts, at least until an appropriate percentage of the population is vaccinated, whatever that may be.

Whoa, hang on there. That solution is DEFINITELY NOT the way to go. The fear mongering is unbelievable. Mildura has 1 case, and you think Locking down Portland and every other regional town is acceptable. LOCKDOWNS are not the answer for infection cases that are not remotely close to overwhelming the health system. What is necessary is contact tracing and subsequent close contact isolation. Wearing of masks, and washing of hands. (interesting how the hand washing messages of the past have vanished), and getting vaccinated. Lockdowns are causing more deaths from suicide in Australia as a result of economic hardships resulting from business collapses and stand downs than Octogenarians who have passed.

A disturbing trend of media sensationalism I noticed yesterday is the reporting in the vein of "Disturbing exposure sites increases to 280". WTF! who care about the number of exposure sites. The number of deaths is important, and the number of ICU admissions. Seriously - reporting the death of 92 year old from covid, is hardly responsible. Get some perspective Australians.

[DirectAnywhere]

Whoa, hang on there. That solution is DEFINITELY NOT the way to go. The fear mongering is unbelievable. Mildura has 1 case, and you think Locking down Portland and every other regional town is acceptable. LOCKDOWNS are not the answer for infection cases that are not remotely close to overwhelming the health system. What is necessary is contact tracing and subsequent close contact isolation. Wearing of masks, and washing of hands. (interesting how the hand washing messages of the past have vanished), and getting vaccinated. Lockdowns are causing more deaths from suicide in Australia as a result of economic hardships resulting from business collapses and stand downs than Octogenarians who have passed.

A disturbing trend of media sensationalism I noticed yesterday is the reporting in the vein of "Disturbing exposure sites increases to 280". WTF! who care about the number of exposure sites. The number of deaths is important, and the number of ICU admissions. Seriously - reporting the death of 92 year old from covid, is hardly responsible. Get some perspective Australians.

It's pretty clear that solution IS the way to go, and is the model all state governments will be following until we reach the mythical unicorn of herd immunity by vaccination. Doesn't matter what I think, or what you think, the evidence is clear. Vic should be on top of their outbreak inside two weeks while NSW will be 6 weeks to the end of the current planned lockdown, but no-one of any expertise expects it to end there. Contact tracing cannot withstand the the transmissability of current variants. I wish it were otherwise, but if wishes were horses....

[601]

Contact tracing cannot withstand the the transmissability of current variants.

It would if people followed the health directions.

I attended an outdoor event yesterday that required a Check In. While I was in a position to observe the Q-Code, I saw two people check - about 10% of all who passed the sign during that period.

During the main event, a family of 5 adults and one child sat about 3 metres away from us. None of the adults were wearing masks.

Instead of the media highlighting this B$ about how people are frightened of police, the media should be reinforcing the requirements of the health directions.
We seem to get a lot of reporting on the excuses of why people cannot get a jab. Where is their social responsibility?

I wonder if they have the same fear about paramedics and ventilators.

[Max Tow]

The fear mongering is unbelievable....Lockdowns are causing more deaths from suicide in Australia as a result of economic hardships resulting from business collapses and stand downs....

Lest you be accused of your own bit of fear mongering, do you have any evidence to back up your claim of a substantial increase in suicides in Australia as a result of lockdown?
I'm genuinely interested as the overseas studies I've seen do not support.

[Chronic Snoozer]

A disturbing trend of media sensationalism I noticed yesterday is the reporting in the vein of "Disturbing exposure sites increases to 280". WTF! who care about the number of exposure sites. The number of deaths is important, and the number of ICU admissions. Seriously - reporting the death of 92 year old from covid, is hardly responsible. Get some perspective Australians.

Yes the obsession with deaths and cases is distracting. In the meantime noone has mentioned the 415 deaths in the first three months of the year due to influenza and pneumonia. At some point COVID deaths will become just another paragraph in this list.

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release

[WingNut60]

................... At some point COVID deaths will become just another paragraph in this list.

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release

That is quite likely but your post conceals a common non sequitur; that because we have become inured to a certain death rate from other causes then if we just open up right now then COVID will be just like the flu.
This is a very common argument from those who just want to open up. Those people should refer back to the Victorian outbreak of 2020 or the current one in NSW.

The deaths and disability being caused now is despite the control measures being taken.
And if you're concerned about the mental anguish caused from being locked down and out of work think what losing your wife and eldest daughter might do to you.

[WingNut60]

Lest you be accused of your own bit of fear mongering, do you have any evidence to back up your claim of a substantial increase in suicides in Australia as a result of lockdown?
I'm genuinely interested as the overseas studies I've seen do not support.

Or, on another tack, have a look at the 20% increase in gun violence deaths in the US over the 12 month period of Trump's "let it run" policy.
Only a few thousand additional lives lost. Hardly worth counting. Puny by comparison to the deaths from Covid in the Trumpdom.

[MickG0105]

Lockdowns are causing more deaths from suicide in Australia as a result of economic hardships resulting from business collapses and stand downs than Octogenarians who have passed.

That contention is often repeated but there is little hard data to support it and some hard data that actually contradicts it.

Three states - Queensland, New South Wales, and Victoria - have released their 2020 suspected deaths by suicide data for 2020. As the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare notes (https://www.aihw.gov.au/suicide-self-harm-monitoring/data/covid-19),

In all cases there is no evidence to date of any increase relative to previous years.

Suspected deaths by suicide in Victoria, the lockdown state of 2020, were essentially unchanged from the previous two years. In fact, the 699 suspected deaths by suicide for 2020 was slightly lower than in 2019 (718) and similar to 2018 (700). Moreover, if you look at suicides by month throughout the lengthy second 2020 lockdown (June - October), they average below the annual average for 2020.

New South Wales recorded a nearly 5 percent year-on-year drop in suspected deaths by suicide in 2020, with 898, as opposed to 944 in 2019.

The Queensland data is mixed. Noting that they have only reported for the first seven months of 2020 (to 31 July), the headline data shows a slight increase in suspected deaths by suicide for that period, 454, when compared to the 445 for the same period in 2019. Queensland Police Service reports for the same period indicate that COVID-19 may have contributed towards 28 suspected suicides, through either or a combination of - affecting mood, coping, stress and anxiety; employment; social isolation; changes in access to healthcare support; relationship breakdown; and finances. Of note in that QPS reporting, "finances" was mentioned in only one case (relatedly "employment" was mentioned in 11 cases, which may have included the single "finances" case).

Any data-based discussion on suicide numbers and rates is hampered in the first instance by the fact that there is no national register. The states, except for South Australia, manage their own registers - South Australia doesn't have one at all. Secondly, there's the lag in reporting. Presently there is no good data for this year.

We won't see the national data for 2020 until around October this year but based on the numbers from the eastern states it is very likely that 2020 will have been only the sixth year since 2006 when suicides are down year-on-year against the prior year.

[MickG0105]

Yes the obsession with deaths and cases is distracting. In the meantime noone has mentioned the 415 deaths in the first three months of the year due to influenza and pneumonia. At some point COVID deaths will become just another paragraph in this list.

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release
Possibly no one has mentioned it because they show a marked improvement on previous years.

As always, read the details (per your link).


Influenza

There has not been a death certified due to influenza since late July 2020.

Pneumonia

The number of deaths due to pneumonia has been largely below average since late April 2020.
Between January and March 2021, deaths due to pneumonia were 84 (16.8%) below the 2015-19 average and 148 deaths (26.3%) below the same point in 2020.



So, zero in the Influenza deaths column and 148 fewer deaths from Pneumonia column when compared to the previous year. Form your own views as to what might be contributing to those outcomes.

[PoppaJo]

The TikTok leaker has apparently been busted. Still no reason why Health couldn’t release the stats at say 9am, rather than dragging it out 15 hours.

[ruprecht]

The deaths and disability being caused now is despite the control measures being taken.


I will agree with you right up until the day everyone who is eligible for the vaccine has been offered one.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Possibly no one has mentioned it because they show a marked improvement on previous years.

As always, read the details (per your link).



So, zero in the Influenza deaths column and 148 fewer deaths from Pneumonia column when compared to the previous year. Form your own views as to what might be contributing to those outcomes.

Mate, I don't want to get into a debate about the statistics. I've read them. I linked them because I thought they were of interest. Obviously some of the actions taken due to COVID have affected the tally of deaths due to other respiratory diseases. I was merely reflecting on CRH's point about distracting media coverage.

And if you read the details you will have noted that influenza and pneumonia are linked for a good reason.

[Chronic Snoozer]

That is quite likely but your post conceals a common non sequitur; that because we have become inured to a certain death rate from other causes then if we just open up right now then COVID will be just like the flu.
This is a very common argument from those who just want to open up. Those people should refer back to the Victorian outbreak of 2020 or the current one in NSW.

The deaths and disability being caused now is despite the control measures being taken.
And if you're concerned about the mental anguish caused from being locked down and out of work think what losing your wife and eldest daughter might do to you.

Nowhere have I suggested opening up or that COVID is just like the flu.

[jrfsp]

looks like SA about to fall as well

[WingNut60]

Nowhere have I suggested opening up or that COVID is just like the flu.
Then what was your point? That media reports are distracting? Yep, I'll go along with that.

[Foxxster]

And the Olympics farce continues. Why the hell is it going ahead. Covid in the Olympics village and now… all before the start ..

Six British Olympic athletes and two team staff are self-isolating in their hotel rooms in Tokyo after being identified as close contacts of a passenger who subsequently tested positive for coronavirus on their plane to Japan, the British Olympic Association has announced.

According to a statement, the individual who has tested positive is not a member of the Team GB delegation but was a close contact during their flight to Japan on Thursday.

It comes as Olympic organisers revealed two athletes tested positive for coronavirus in Tokyo, as the South African football team announced that two of their players - Thabiso Monyane and Kamohelo Mahlatsi - had tested positive.
Mahlatsi and Monyane are the first athletes in the village to be reported positive, adding to the uncertainty around the Tokyo Olympics that are to open on Friday after being delayed a year by the pandemic. Video Analyst Mario Masha from the South African squad also tested positive on arrival in Tokyo as the team prepares to face hosts Japan on Thursday.

[jrfsp]

And the Olympics farce continues. Why the hell is it going ahead. Covid in the Olympics village and now… all before the start ..

Six British Olympic athletes and two team staff are self-isolating in their hotel rooms in Tokyo after being identified as close contacts of a passenger who subsequently tested positive for coronavirus on their plane to Japan, the British Olympic Association has announced.

According to a statement, the individual who has tested positive is not a member of the Team GB delegation but was a close contact during their flight to Japan on Thursday.

It comes as Olympic organisers revealed two athletes tested positive for coronavirus in Tokyo, as the South African football team announced that two of their players - Thabiso Monyane and Kamohelo Mahlatsi - had tested positive.
Mahlatsi and Monyane are the first athletes in the village to be reported positive, adding to the uncertainty around the Tokyo Olympics that are to open on Friday after being delayed a year by the pandemic. Video Analyst Mario Masha from the South African squad also tested positive on arrival in Tokyo as the team prepares to face hosts Japan on Thursday.

Indeed - i do feel sorry for the Japanese though, the investment in the Olympics would be astronomical! It should have been cancelled with all the host cities pushed back 4 years. ie Japan to host it in 2024.

[SOPS]

Indeed - i do feel sorry for the Japanese though, the investment in the Olympics would be astronomical! It should have been cancelled with all the host cities pushed back 4 years. ie Japan to host it in 2024.


It’s just about money for the IOC. Japan is in a worse position now ( Covid wise) than it was last year, when the games were canceled. The whole thing will be a disaster.

[jrfsp]

This vaccination advertisement has just been launched by various Aussie arts groups and its miles ahead of the Fed Govs ad - but that's not surprising.

https://youtu.be/fDfug35d5fU

[Foxxster]

Well those two removals people, the brothers who along with one other who were WuHu flu positive and went out west.., their mother in her 50s has just been found dead in her house. Dead of covid. Of course I feel sorry for them but they were quite happy to potentially spread it around so there’s that,

[Chronic Snoozer]

Then what was your point? That media reports are distracting? Yep, I'll go along with that.

Yes the obsession with deaths and cases is distracting. It’s there in my original post. Questions?

[jrfsp]

as expected SA basically going into semi lockdown

[SOPS]

So I would expect WA to close to SA shortly. Everyone might as well close to everyone else and just be done with it!!!

[SHVC]

Gladys said to 80% vaccination rate for no restrictions. Any one want to guess the odds of getting to that?! I reckon...... never.

[jrfsp]

The sooner we accept the need to vaccinate teenagers the better

[cloudsurfng]

Gladys said to 80% vaccination rate for no restrictions. Any one want to guess the odds of getting to that?! I reckon...... never.

coatsworth says 50%, then life back with some restrictions around mask use and people per square metre.

[jrfsp]

coatsworth says 50%, then life back with some restrictions around mask use and people per square metre.

The problem with this is how palatable is that way of living, certainly wouldn't be entertained prior to an election? Particularly where vast swathes of the country live the pre-covid way of life.

I guess we can all see how it pans out in Europe, many places are re-imposing restrictions with that level of vaccination (Netherlands as one example)

[SHVC]

coatsworth says 50%, then life back with some restrictions around mask use and people per square metre.

Gladys said 80%. State premiere over rules any fed.

[unobtanium]

Gladys said 80%. State premiere over rules any fed.

Incorrect, its "HEALTH ADVISE" that rule's over any state premiere, or fed, or common sense.

[blubak]

Well those two removals people, the brothers who along with one other who were WuHu flu positive and went out west.., their mother in her 50s has just been found dead in her house. Dead of covid. Of course I feel sorry for them but they were quite happy to potentially spread it around so there’s that,
I dont think the cause has been confirmed,if she was ill due to covid why wasnt she getting medical attention?
I think there may be more to this,maybe guilt ridden & decided she couldnt face her mistake any longer,i guess we will find out soon enough.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

I agree. This sounds suspect. Did she die FROM Covid or WITH Covid .....?

[mattyj]

The uk has 90% of all eligible citizens with one shot..and their cases have dropped right back to basically zero right..oh and they have fantastic levels of mask compliance..and until a few hours from now they’ve been in a draconian lockdown..and it’s summer when respiratory viruses are at lowest ebb..woohoo. Everything Australia has to look forward to once everyone bends to the will of their masters :rolleyes:

[SHVC]

When has common sense been used lately. Gladys said 80 and that’s what she will do.

[3Greens]

The uk has 90% of all eligible citizens with one shot..and their cases have dropped right back to basically zero right..oh and they have fantastic levels of mask compliance..and until a few hours from now they’ve been in a draconian lockdown..and it’s summer when respiratory viruses are at lowest ebb..woohoo. Everything Australia has to look forward to once everyone bends to the will of their masters :rolleyes:

the U.K. most certainly hasn’t been in a draconian lockdown until today. Today is just the move to step 4, which is essentially all restrictions come to an end. The only difference from yesterday to today really is that night clubs can open and mask wearing in no longer a legal requirement indoors.
Cases are still high, but deaths remain very very low and so do hospital admissions. It’s a fact of life that we have to live with this disease now. For context, 40 people died yesterday in the U.K. with Covid. 500 people died of cancer and the same of heart related disease.

[WingNut60]

..........and their cases have dropped right back to basically zero right..........................

Eh? 48,000 new cases on the 18th.
Not quite zero.

[Turnleft080]

Eh? 48,000 new cases on the 18th.
Not quite zero.

How's this for an estimation. Where the UK are right now is where Australia should be by Christmas. It must go ballistic and ballistic it will.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/uk-covid-cases-could-hit-200000-a-day-says-neil-ferguson-scientist-behind-lockdown-strategy-england

[mattyj]

Can anyone believe that Neil Ferguson is still allowed to give his opinions publicly?!

[mattyj]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-why-is-there-a-surge-in-winter-viruses-at-the-moment-12354845

this RSV immunity debt crisis in NZ is frightening because it actually does kill little kiddies (unlike Covid)

[Lead Balloon]

I agree. This sounds suspect. Did she die FROM Covid or WITH Covid .....?ABC news just said "from", twice.

Would be good to know when that finding was made and the qualifications of the person who made it.

Interesting watching the finger pointing between governments and their medical advisors at the moment.

[MickG0105]

The uk has 90% of all eligible citizens with one shot..and their cases have dropped right back to basically zero right...
​​​​​​Is "basically zero" a zero with four other figures in front of it?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1493/screenshot_2021_07_19_18_54_14_1_a0f68ce7e3ebba31a4ab436b91b 615a2b8b09ce0.png


...oh and they have fantastic levels of mask compliance..and until a few hours from now they’ve been in a draconian lockdown..
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/739x415/images_100__155cca51a5a80aac0122c0f0f086fdc29f93a122.jpeg
Wembley Stadium, London - 30 June 2021
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/764x401/images_99__5063944b95e3efff2c6cd946cc6f508b65f1ec02.jpeg
And Wembley Stadium, London - 11 July 2021

Very mask compliant, very draconian.

I'm guessing there's a bridge somewhere that's being overrun by goats.

[Lead Balloon]

The UK is going to be a very interesting experiment to watch.

Happy 'Freedom Day' UK! Good luck...

[mattyj]

Wembley was a special exemption under previously agreed to EUFA rules:

“Face coverings must be worn upon entry to the stadium and in all indoor areas. You can take it off ONLY when seated in view of the pitch," says the guide.

Fans have to show either proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test result to be uploaded 48 hours before the entry into the stadium.”

otherwise the masking is strict in the UK

[Lead Balloon]

Define "strict" and explain how it has been enforced in practice.

The UK is as well-disciplined on C-19 precautions as its priapic PM.

[MickG0105]

Wembley was a special exemption under previously agreed to EUFA rules:

“Face coverings must be worn upon entry to the stadium and in all indoor areas. You can take it off ONLY when seated in view of the pitch," says the guide.

Sure, let's leave aside the fact that no one in the v Germany and v Italy photos is seated, let's look at the arrivals when face coverings were required.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/650x437/images_2021_07_19t195514_142_ca477848d178010fb82e788aa477295 a3d5242e9.jpeg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/678x452/images_2021_07_19t195432_890_ca149c9ba03f9b1960e30dde7465bc3 c0463f6dc.jpeg

Fantastic compliance?

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/780x438/210711142618_01_leicester_square_0711_exlarge_169_5494d4cd3c 39324e495efdaeb0a3e81b4f161840.jpg

Evidence of a draconian lockdown?

[KRviator]

From their data (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/) for the 18th July, 48,161 new daily cases, with 28 deaths. Corrected for population (66.65v25.36) gives 18,325 new cases and 10 deaths for an Australian "equivalent".

And yet everyone is up in arms about, what? 120 new cases total here? Puh-lease....:ugh:

Oh, and that's with 87.9% of their adult population having had their first dose and 68.3% having had their second dose!

[Turnleft080]

Can anyone believe that Neil Ferguson is still allowed to give his opinions publicly?!
I can say the same for all the CHOs, they operate with tunnel vision, one goal only, we must squash this virus into the ground and do this at any cost.
We will see if this bloke is wrong or right. I have more interest what will happen in the next 2 weeks in the UK than here in Melbourne.

[minigundiplomat]

I have enjoyied watching the Australian Media (and Pruners) pass judgement on the UK’s opening up today, particularly the ABC.

The vaccine rollout here has been like watching old people shag, and the state premiers have repeatedly prioritised politics over mental health or business. Even now the nation is a hermit of North Korean magnitude and still has no credible blueprint for opening up international borders.

But hey, let’s judge the actions of other nations that have managed to vaccinate a meaningful proportion of their populations and are attempting to move on.

[WingNut60]

And yet everyone is up in arms about, what? 120 new cases total here? Puh-lease....:ugh:


That's because they have gone from an actual zero (0) on 18 May to 48,000 today.
Despite 87.9% of their adult population having had their first dose and 68.3% having had their second dose!

[minigundiplomat]

That's because they have gone from an actual zero (0) on 18 May to 48,000 today.
Despite 87.9% of their adult population having had their first dose and 68.3% having had their second dose!

ill speak slowly, maybe you’ll keep up. The vaccines don’t stop you catching Covid, they reduce the virulence to something comparable with lflu. Start getting over case numbers. Regardless of vaccines they are going up.

Or just stay locked up forever.

[Fonz121]

That's because they have gone from an actual zero (0) on 18 May to 48,000 today.
Despite 87.9% of their adult population having had their first dose and 68.3% having had their second dose!

The last time they had 7-day average case numbers as high as today they were getting 1200 deaths a day. This time, with the vaccine, it’s down to 40. So if your point is that the vaccine isn’t doing anything, you are horribly mistaken.

[Green.Dot]

That's because they have gone from an actual zero (0) on 18 May to 48,000 today.
Despite 87.9% of their adult population having had their first dose and 68.3% having had their second dose!

I hope you do more study for your next sim/check flight than you do with your vaccine research.

Not sure how many times it has to be explained that being vaccinated doesn’t mean you can’t get COVID.

What is happening in the UK right now is extremely encouraging. Cases are back through the roof but deaths and hospitalisations are ACCEPTABLY low. (Standing by for comment saying “what if it was your mother or father?”)

When Australia follows suit with a suitably vaccinated population we have a lot to look forward to towards the end of the year.

[minigundiplomat]

Not sure how many times it has to be explained that being vaccinated doesn’t mean you can’t get COVID.

What is happening in the UK right now is extremely encouraging. Cases are back through the roof but deaths and hospitalisations are ACCEPTABLY low. (Standing by for comment saying “what if it was your mother or father?”)

When Australia follows suit with a suitably vaccinated population we have a lot to look forward to towards the end of the year.

Totally agree,

but the fed and state governments (and the media) need to stop with the case numbers. They WILL go up, and the public need to understand this.

[Green.Dot]

Totally agree,

but the fed and state governments (and the media) need to stop with the case numbers. They WILL go up, and the public need to understand this.

As unpleasant as the recent outbreaks and associated lockdowns are right now for many Australians I think longer term it is probably the best thing that could have happened to us for exactly the reasons you have said.

[WingNut60]

What you guys do not seem to understand is that Australia does not have the UK's vaccination rates and is not likely to any time soon but you ALL speak as though the best thing all round would be to throw the gates wide open right now.
Three more weeks and I and all of my close family and friends will have had our second A-Z. After that, you can open up whatever you like - just make sure that it's NSW first.
You might get a job with Rex for a while.

[ruprecht]

you ALL speak as though the best thing all round would be to throw the gates wide open right now..

Oh stop your sooking, no one is saying that - except maybe that bloke who eats nothing but garlic. :rolleyes:

[minigundiplomat]

[QUOTEYou might get a job with Rex for a while.[/QUOTE]

I’d say you even got a better outlook with Covid than with Rex.

[machtuk]

Will be interesting to see what the comments are going to be like this time next year when lockdown No 15 is being extended by the Vict lunatic! This lunacy will never end!

[jrfsp]

Doesnt look like investors are believing Boris's hype....global sell off in markets around the world...biggest sell off is in travel stocks, IAG was the biggest decline on the FTSE 100

[Climb150]

Doesnt look like investors are believing Boris's hype....global sell off in markets around the world...biggest sell off is in travel stocks, IAG was the biggest decline on the FTSE 100

Stock markets these days go up and down like yo yos. The Dow can be 1000 down one day and up 1200 the next. When we see a trend and not spikes you can start worrying.

[Green.Dot]

What you guys do not seem to understand is that Australia does not have the UK's vaccination rates and is not likely to any time soon but you ALL speak as though the best thing all round would be to throw the gates wide open right now.


I think most of us do understand. See post #6067 if you don’t believe me…

“Yet another Australian media scare mongering campaign almost purely focussing on case numbers. I don’t think now is the time to let COVID run its course in Aus with our currently pitiful vaccination stats but I certainly think the UK is justified in its actions.”

[Ladloy]

Will be interesting to see what the comments are going to be like this time next year when lockdown No 15 is being extended by the Vict lunatic! This lunacy will never end!

If you want to get mad at someone, divert your hatred towards the PM. We're in this feedback loop because of him.

[blubak]

If you want to get mad at someone, divert your hatred towards the PM. We're in this feedback loop because of him.
And all he does is post figures that try to make his dismal failure look like a success. Guess thats what marketing people do,suck you in by throwing any facts & figures around to actually distract from the real facts.

[jrfsp]

Is it a race yet?

Hope the ink isnt dry on the budget figures

[KRviator]

That's because they have gone from an actual zero (0) on 18 May to 48,000 today.
Despite 87.9% of their adult population having had their first dose and 68.3% having had their second dose!UUmmm....What's that about an 'actual zero (0)' on May 18??
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1366x768/uk18may_ae6de5bcb392ec9b25c2d02bc28e7e76eb54b6bc.jpg

[DirectAnywhere]

Pretty sure that zero on that date (or around it) was deaths. First zero death day since the start of the pandemic rings a bell.

[C441]

If you want to get mad at someone, divert your hatred towards the PM. We're in this feedback loop because of him.
We are in this "feedback loop" because all of our various government's 'leaders' - including the PM - are acting in an adversarial, politically driven manner designed to impact on the political landscape, not in the best interests of the whole Australian population. One would hope that when this pandemic is less of a hourly (minutely if there were such a word) news bite, a decision will be made by a very brave politician or two, to ensure that we react as a nation not a conglomerate of States, to deal with any future similar event.

I doubt however, there will ever be a politician with the guts to do such a thing……...

[SOPS]

West Australians in South Australia are being told to come home now.. ASAP. I think a border closure is about to happen.

[KRviator]

Pretty sure that zero on that date (or around it) was deaths. First zero death day since the start of the pandemic rings a bell.Yep, you're right. Sounds like WingNut has crossed threads...

West Australians in South Australia are being told to come home now.. ASAP. I think a border closure is about to happen.There's still a couple of jurisdictions McGowan hasn't locked out yet, but I've no doubt he'll get there. It'd be amusing if it wasn't so disgraceful that a NZ citizen from Auckland can freely travel to WA, but an Australian citizen in Armidale cannot. Neither have had any Covid cases in their area, but I guess that's what "health advice" is...Locking out 78% of the Australian people from one of their own states, and requiring another 8.5% to quarantine when they get there. I guess the remaining 3% from Tasmania and the Territory can keep WA's interstate tourism industry going.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/889x575/waborder20jul_76a60a087045905938b45deba6209025aa188789.jpg

[SHVC]

This is becoming crazier by the day. The world is opening up and we are still in this lockdown cycle.

[PoppaJo]

This is becoming crazier by the day. The world is opening up and we are still in this lockdown cycle.
I can’t see this way of life going away until at least December 31.

I would expect rolling Sydney leaks across August and September.

[mattyj]

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-how-well-covid-19-vaccines-work-against-the-delta-variant#Vaccines-vs.-delta-variant

a bit of a comparison.
New Zealand only contracted Pfizer and Israeli data is suggesting that its efficacy drops off pretty quickly against delta. Fully vaccinated people are being hospitalised now and Pfizer is talking about boosters..I got a bad feeling about this

[jrfsp]

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-how-well-covid-19-vaccines-work-against-the-delta-variant#Vaccines-vs.-delta-variant

a bit of a comparison.
New Zealand only contracted Pfizer and Israeli data is suggesting that its efficacy drops off pretty quickly against delta. Fully vaccinated people are being hospitalised now and Pfizer is talking about boosters..I got a bad feeling about this

i read dropping to 60% after only 6 months....not good

[SHVC]

Astra Zeneca ppl the drug of choice

[43Inches]

Astra Zeneca ppl the drug of choice

That one has a an efficacy of only 63% to begin with, would be interesting to see how effective that is after 6 months if Pfizer is down to 60%.

[mattyj]

At least I won’t have to hide my needle tracks at the medical anymore

[Ladloy]

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-how-well-covid-19-vaccines-work-against-the-delta-variant#Vaccines-vs.-delta-variant

a bit of a comparison.
New Zealand only contracted Pfizer and Israeli data is suggesting that its efficacy drops off pretty quickly against delta. Fully vaccinated people are being hospitalised now and Pfizer is talking about boosters..I got a bad feeling about this
Boosters have almost always been planned, especially in the older age brackets as their immune response is not as strong as their younger counterparts. There's a lot of ongoing research currently in what combinations of vaccines give the strongest protection.
Watch this space.

[Turnleft080]

i read dropping to 60% after only 6 months....not good
Anybody thinking about 60% about March last year would take that against any variant. That was the hope back then.
After all that is all your going to get when you get flu shot. What was the 4th stage Scomo ruling, we must live with this like the flu.
Don't forget you have 98.0% of not dying unvaccinated, so that figure must be higher if vaccinated.

[SOPS]

And Tasmania is now shut to South Australia. There will be nowhere left to fly soon.

[Gnadenburg]

and Israeli data is suggesting that its efficacy drops off pretty quickly against delta. Fully vaccinated people are being hospitalised now and Pfizer is talking about boosters..I got a bad feeling about this

Israeli data is suggesting vaccines are preventing serious illness from COVID. 93% versus 97% previously. Yes, more people are getting COVID with the Delta mutation. That could even make sense considering such a high percentage of the adult population vaccinated now.

You can play with stats or take a look at Israel's neighbour to see how an unvaccinated population coping. I guess Syria isn't a nation anymore, however, Lebanon is and is facing turmoil.

[Gnadenburg]

And Tasmania is now shut to South Australia. There will be nowhere left to fly soon.


Has me wondering, how many reluctant vaxers, here on this thread, have lost their flying jobs due COVID? So many seem comfortable that our economic resilience is guaranteed again.

A prolonged pandemic will get to you eventually.

[Turnleft080]

And Tasmania is now shut to South Australia. There will be nowhere left to fly soon.
Add Queensland to that now.
My hypothetical is coming to fruition. That is, if every state/territory recorded half a dozen cases,
then closing the borders is superfluous. Everyone state is equal. It's a political border with the same surroundings either side of it.

[jrfsp]

Add Queensland to that now.
My hypothetical is coming to fruition. That is, if every state/territory recorded half a dozen cases,
then closing the borders is superfluous. Everyone state is equal. It's a political border with the same surroundings either side of it.

And the NT.

And parts of regional NSW will now join the club into lockdown, expect the border to QLD and others will fully close now

Interestingly yesterday the USA has UPGRADED its COVID travel advisory to the highest level, backtracking on the idea of restarting transatlantic travel to the UK, seems they are increasingly worried about delta variant. The new advice from the US says: "Because of the current situation in the United Kingdom, even fully vaccinated travellers may be at risk for getting and spreading Covid-19 variants."

[SHVC]

Now Orange, country town in NSW to lockdown from midnight. How long is this madness going to continue!

[jrfsp]

Now Orange, country town in NSW to lockdown from midnight. How long is this madness going to continue!

I wonder if it will even get a mention by GB tomorrow, she doesnt like to go into the details

[PoppaJo]

I hope the UK has much success being a case study letting it rip at 70% as we will have enough trouble entering the 70s let alone waiting it out to hit the 80s. We cannot wait another year to reach a magical number to then end lockdowns.

We should have a timeframe of perhaps the end of Jan or Feb, regardless of what vaccine number we arrive at, it’s then game over and it just needs to ‘rip’.

We need to start preparing for the masses clogging up the Health system in 2022. Perhaps that might scare people into getting the jab. Start building make shift portable tents and morgues in preparation for the last quarter who have no interest. The scenes in Manhattan last year reminded me of a war zone.

[Foxxster]

And the NT.

And parts of regional NSW will now join the club into lockdown, expect the border to QLD and others will fully close now

Interestingly yesterday the USA has UPGRADED its COVID travel advisory to the highest level, backtracking on the idea of restarting transatlantic travel to the UK, seems they are increasingly worried about delta variant. The new advice from the US says: "Because of the current situation in the United Kingdom, even fully vaccinated travellers may be at risk for getting and spreading Covid-19 variants."


i wonder if they have given approval to allow visitors who have been vaccinated with AstraZeneca. Of course it is not approved for use in the US so has not been used at all. And it was a major sticking point with negotiations with the uk. The US were refusing entry to those that had used it. That is another sticking point in opening up the world. So many vaccines which are not considered equal by any means. Especially the Chinese one. Where a lot of our inbound will be coming from…

[SRFred]

Now Orange, country town in NSW to lockdown from midnight. How long is this madness going to continue!

Actually it is three shires around Orange that are locked down ie Orange, Blayney, and the Cabonne Shires . The question is how long before they lock all of rural NSW, and effectively the ACT, down?

[nomorecatering]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jMeJjVm5k0&t=146s

[nivsy]

So of all Australia, only WA and Tasmania are not in some form of lockdown the moment. How are Qantas and Virgin and any other likely to survive?

Having already cancelled 10 sectors I'm giving up...it's not worth the bother

[minigundiplomat]

I can’t believe this is the same Australia that pushed back the Japanese at Kokoda, fought at Crete and flew bombing missions over Germany.


where did some you park your balls?

[Foxxster]

More Olympics farce..I wonder if the chook is walking around in a hazmat suit.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9806095/Olympic-chiefs-refuse-rule-CANCELLING-Tokyo-Games-Covid.html

[From a distance]

I can’t believe this is the same Australia that pushed back the Japanese at Kokoda, fought at Crete and flew bombing missions over Germany.


where did some you park your balls?

Same Australia, different Australians. The ones at Kokoda, Crete and over Germany were a brave and great generation.

[machtuk]

We've all heard that Lord Byron saying......only this one I've modified for these times......."the premiers mark their states with ruin- their control stops with the borders"....

We are a troubled nation as in a rudderless ship, without direction, without a destination, without resolve, other than division which I see amongst these pages! -(

[601]

where did some you park your balls?
Certainly not outside a vaccine clinic.

[Turnleft080]

Now Orange, country town in NSW to lockdown from midnight. How long is this madness going to continue!
How mad? According to public health advice, it's ok to have heart disease, it's ok to have cancer, it's ok to have diabetes 2, it's ok to have liver or kidney disease
but don't you ever ever think about catching Covid. You are not to die of covid, not on my watch. Oh! you have a knee replacement, I'm sorry, your just have
to endure your knee pain. Your pain is the countries gain. Make that 3 fold, mental financial and surmountable stress. Thats the science. Trust the public health advise.

[AerialPerspective]

Same Australia, different Australians. The ones at Kokoda, Crete and over Germany were a brave and great generation.

I tend to think the times have bred a generation that reacts more emotionally to being unfriended on FB than a WWII or WWI soldier would have reacted to losing a leg.

[mattyj]

Keep taking away my freedom and see..

[Ninthace]

How mad? According to public health advice, it's ok to have heart disease, it's ok to have cancer, it's ok to have diabetes 2, it's ok to have liver or kidney disease
but don't you ever ever think about catching Covid. You are not to die of covid, not on my watch. Oh! you have a knee replacement, I'm sorry, your just have
to endure your knee pain. Your pain is the countries gain. Make that 3 fold, mental financial and surmountable stress. Thats the science. Trust the public health advise.
Think your rant through. If you do not make an effort to contain Covid, will you end up with more of less hospital places free to treat other conditions and more or less people to run those hospitals?

[mattyj]

False equivalence… Evidence of immunity debt growing around the world indicates the hospitals are going to fill up anyhow because of our masking and lockdowns

[SHVC]

Just watching that idiot KS on 9s morning show dear mongering everyone. He was saying how bad delta is and comparing to the UK saying they had 46,000 new cases and 96 deaths saying the UK are plummeting back to a lockdown out of those I couldn’t find any info on how many of those deaths were vaccinated. But Seriously WTF his statements make it clear that ppl want zero, we are all f&$ked royally.

[MickG0105]

False equivalence… Evidence of immunity debt growing around the world indicates the hospitals are going to fill up anyhow because of our masking and lockdowns
As to hospitals filling up due to "immunity debt", the New Zealand Institute of Environmental Science and Research (ESR) filing ESR data highlights surge of respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) (https://www.esr.cri.nz/home/about-esr/media-releases/esr-data-highlights-surge-of-respiratory-syncytial-virus-rsv-new-news-page/) notes:

While there were sporadic cases previously, the increase of RSV cases in New Zealand in 2021 was reported by the national viral laboratory network shortly after re-opening the borders with Australia in late-April. ...
“The exponential increase is very sharp. The absence of RSV last winter meant there is a young cohort of children from last year, plus a new cohort this year, who have not been exposed to the seasonal virus,” says Dr Huang. ...
Despite the sharp increase, rates of RSV infection are still less than pre-COVID levels.

Further, the most recent weekly Severe Acute Respiratory Infection (SARI) surveillance report (https://www.esr.cri.nz/our-services/consultancy/flu-surveillance-and-research/) issued by the ESR notes:

The rate of hospitalisations due to Severe Acute Respiratory Infection (SARI) has continued to decrease after several weeks of increasing rates. The rate is now again below the seasonal baseline threshold and the historical average rate for this time of year. Respiratory Syncytial virus (RSV) was the virus most commonly detected through SARI surveillance in the past week (with high RSV test positivity, ~45%), and these hospital admissions in the Auckland region are predominantly in children under 5 years old.

So, "rates of RSV infection are still less than pre-COVID levels", the hospitalisation "rate is now again below the seasonal baseline threshold and the historical average rate for this time of year" and "rate of hospitalisations due to Severe Acute Respiratory Infection (SARI) has continued to decrease".

[ManillaChillaDilla]

It doesnt matter what industry you are in.

If you are trying to run a business big or small, this current situation is beyond impossible.

The incompetance loop is running overtime and self perpetuating.

These idiots have destroyed our country.

MCD.

[dr dre]

I tend to think the times have bred a generation that reacts more emotionally to being unfriended on FB than a WWII or WWI soldier would have reacted to losing a leg.

Do you realise it was the WW1 generation that wore masks, closed borders, instituted quarantine, instituted lockdowns, closed venues and schools, cancelled events over the 1918 H1N1 pandemic? Was that generation similarly weak?

Funny enough if you read the history of it all there were similar complaints the states were acting too independently and the Hughes federal government at the time wasn't strong enough in enforcing a consistent approach across the commonwealth.

[Ladloy]

Do you realise it was the WW1 generation that wore masks, closed borders, instituted quarantine, instituted lockdowns, closed venues and schools, cancelled events over the 1918 H1N1 pandemic? Was that generation similarly weak?

Funny enough if you read the history of it all there were similar complaints the states were acting too independently and the Hughes federal government at the time wasn't strong enough in enforcing a consistent approach across the commonwealth.
https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-border-closures-nsw-victoria-history-spanish-flu-pandemic-1919/c153c897-e916-4f05-b499-afa400642b97

[Tucknroll]

It doesnt matter what industry you are in.

If you are trying to run a business big or small, this current situation is beyond impossible.

The incompetance loop is running overtime and self perpetuating.

These idiots have destroyed our country.

MCD.

The economy is 1.1% larger than it was pre-covid

Employment is at 4.9% which is the lowest it’s been in a decade. Participation rate is stable.

GDP is up 1.8% for the first quarter of 2021

[mattyj]

That’s quantitative easing and injecting that printed cash into the economy

[mattyj]

So, "rates of RSV infection are still less than pre-COVID levels", the hospitalisation "rate is now again below the seasonal baseline threshold and the historical average rate for this time of year" and "rate of hospitalisations due to Severe Acute Respiratory Infection (SARI) has continued to decrease".

yet the DHBs are in the media complaining about being overrun and there was 500 cases in children’s hospitals

[MickG0105]

yet the DHBs are in the media complaining about being overrun and there was 500 cases in children’s hospitals
"were" in the media, past tense.

And of course, yes, let's turn to the media for our facts, what would the bodies that actually capture, analyse and report the data know?

As the ESR notes there was most assuredly a very significant spike in RSV cases but the case count has subsequently declined such that they are now back to historical baselines. It's called regression to the mean.

[ChrisJ800]

The economy is 1.1% larger than it was pre-covid

Employment is at 4.9% which is the lowest it’s been in a decade. Participation rate is stable.

GDP is up 1.8% for the first quarter of 2021

Re first point and third point yes larger economy is good for miners and for home owners but there are plenty who are none of these and have to work even if sick in order to survive. For example, Removalists.

Regarding the 2nd point I had to take early retirement in March 2020 so not on the stats and my wife is a casual and her hours are only 70% of pre covid and zero during a lockdown bu again not on your stats.

[Torukmacto]

Many given up looking for work I’d suspect and many just hanging in to worried to quit .

[KRviator]

The economy is 1.1% larger than it was pre-covid

Employment is at 4.9% which is the lowest it’s been in a decade. Participation rate is stable.

GDP is up 1.8% for the first quarter of 2021Never mind that pesky $160-something budget deficit. Someone else'll pick up the tab...And don't forget GDP dropped 7% in the Mar-Jun quarter last year, and 0.3% before that. We're barely back where we were 18 months ago...Oh, and "employment" is, IIRC, defined as working but 1 hour a week or more. Work half a casual shift a week? Great, you've contributed to reducing unemployment. How many of those 95.1% of "employed" people got paid a full 38 hours a week over the last 6 months? Certainly not me - or mot of us here, I would suggest...

[jrfsp]

Sydney airport might want to rethink the buyout offer.....the numbers in NSW arnt looking good

[Green.Dot]

It’s official. The situation is proper f*%#ed in Australia right now.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x520/d507cdec_8dd8_42dd_b363_c78fd620c933_20956fa7c617614cbf611c7 4dd329c7f17ad9730.jpeg

[SHVC]

Well going of the last few days in Sydney Gladamir will keep it locked down till December at least. Community transmission still on the up, but that should be going down lockdown for almost 4 weeks.

United recently announcing they’re withdrawing passenger and Cargo services until October only a matter of time before others follow suit

[PoppaJo]

Waiting this outbreak out until December for herd immunity or as close as possible will destroy the state.

Let’s wait until next week to see if things start to drop. It did seem near impossible in Melbourne however they did get there eventually.

[minigundiplomat]

The economy is 1.1% larger than it was pre-covid

Employment is at 4.9% which is the lowest it’s been in a decade. Participation rate is stable.

GDP is up 1.8% for the first quarter of 2021

Well ****, as Einstein points out, we’ve never had it so good, what I can’t understand is why nobody thought of a global pandemic as an engine for growth earlier?

I’ve had one AZ and have the second next week. I’m not a COVID denier, and neither do I believe it’s a 5G conspiracy. Like most on here, I’ve spent my entire career in an environment of regulatory compliance, so if I’m told to stay indoors or wear a mask I’m hardwired to comply.

But for those of you sitting there (many of you in government jobs) telling yourself Australia has done an awesome job, you are completely deluded. This country’s management of this virus has been a ****show of epic proportions. Geography spared us from mass infection and jobkeeper blunted some of the economic pain.

Closing international borders was a good decision, but executed by both feds and state government like 3 year olds finger painting with their own poo.

National cabinet has produced zero collaboration or consensus and merely legitimised state premiers who have repeatedly proved to be low talent administrators driven purely by reelection. In Qld the bag lady, sorry CMO, has actually sabotaged the vaccine rollout she supposedly supports.

The vaccine rollout (sorry feds, this one is all you) was a day late and a dollar short, and world class in terms of lethargy in delivery and confused messaging.

We now find ourselves a laughing stock, or we would do if the media reported any news outside of Australia or NZ, and confined to a miserable and dystopian world of often politically driven lockdowns and decimated consumer confidence, whilst the vaccine rollout continues at a rate even Burkina Faso would be ashamed of.

Yet we sit at home watching the ABC news and tutting about decisions made in the US or UK in a very different environment. Take a bow Australia

[Green.Dot]

Great post minigun, well summed up!

[ScepticalOptomist]

Well ****, as Einstein points out, we’ve never had it so good, what I can’t understand is why nobody thought of a global pandemic as an engine for growth earlier?

I’ve had one AZ and have the second next week. I’m not a COVID denier, and neither do I believe it’s a 5G conspiracy. Like most on here, I’ve spent my entire career in an environment of regulatory compliance, so if I’m told to stay indoors or wear a mask I’m hardwired to comply.

But for those of you sitting there (many of you in government jobs) telling yourself Australia has done an awesome job, you are completely deluded. This country’s management of this virus has been a ****show of epic proportions. Geography spared us from mass infection and jobkeeper blunted some of the economic pain.

Closing international borders was a good decision, but executed by both feds and state government like 3 year olds finger painting with their own poo.

National cabinet has produced zero collaboration or consensus and merely legitimised state premiers who have repeatedly proved to be low talent administrators driven purely by reelection. In Qld the bag lady, sorry CMO, has actually sabotaged the vaccine rollout she supposedly supports.

The vaccine rollout (sorry feds, this one is all you) was a day late and a dollar short, and world class in terms of lethargy in delivery and confused messaging.

We now find ourselves a laughing stock, or we would do if the media reported any news outside of Australia or NZ, and confined to a miserable and dystopian world of often politically driven lockdowns and decimated consumer confidence, whilst the vaccine rollout continues at a rate even Burkina Faso would be ashamed of.

Yet we sit at home watching the ABC news and tutting about decisions made in the US or UK in a very different environment. Take a bow Australia

What he/she/they said!!

[Xeptu]

Beautifully written! minigundiplomat. Politicians though are ordinary elected australians like us, unlike the the public service that's supposed to be qualified professionals executing the will of the people. It's clearly not what it used to be, all the good ones soaked up by the private sector and replaced by a bunch of new Australians, with level 4 English at best that the private sector wouldn't employ, they will become the next generation of senior public servants.
On a completely different note, China appears to be doing quite well with only 40 or so cases a day for the largest population in the world, extraordinary achievement don't you think.

[Transition Layer]

Well ****, as Einstein points out, we’ve never had it so good, what I can’t understand is why nobody thought of a global pandemic as an engine for growth earlier?

I’ve had one AZ and have the second next week. I’m not a COVID denier, and neither do I believe it’s a 5G conspiracy. Like most on here, I’ve spent my entire career in an environment of regulatory compliance, so if I’m told to stay indoors or wear a mask I’m hardwired to comply.

But for those of you sitting there (many of you in government jobs) telling yourself Australia has done an awesome job, you are completely deluded. This country’s management of this virus has been a ****show of epic proportions. Geography spared us from mass infection and jobkeeper blunted some of the economic pain.

Closing international borders was a good decision, but executed by both feds and state government like 3 year olds finger painting with their own poo.

National cabinet has produced zero collaboration or consensus and merely legitimised state premiers who have repeatedly proved to be low talent administrators driven purely by reelection. In Qld the bag lady, sorry CMO, has actually sabotaged the vaccine rollout she supposedly supports.

The vaccine rollout (sorry feds, this one is all you) was a day late and a dollar short, and world class in terms of lethargy in delivery and confused messaging.

We now find ourselves a laughing stock, or we would do if the media reported any news outside of Australia or NZ, and confined to a miserable and dystopian world of often politically driven lockdowns and decimated consumer confidence, whilst the vaccine rollout continues at a rate even Burkina Faso would be ashamed of.

Yet we sit at home watching the ABC news and tutting about decisions made in the US or UK in a very different environment. Take a bow Australia
Brilliant :D

[Turnleft080]

Beautifully written! minigundiplomat. Politicians though are ordinary elected australians like us, unlike the the public service that's supposed to be qualified professionals executing the will of the people. It's clearly not what it used to be, all the good ones soaked up by the private sector and replaced by a bunch of new Australians, with level 4 English at best that the private sector wouldn't employ, they will become the next generation of senior public servants.
On a completely different note, China appears to be doing quite well with only 40 or so cases a day for the largest population in the world, extraordinary achievement don't you think.
Totally agree, and Peter Costello was one of those good ones. If he became PM, how different this country would be today. Even if he came back today, he would landslide election after election.

[ManillaChillaDilla]

Well ****, as Einstein points out, we’ve never had it so good, what I can’t understand is why nobody thought of a global pandemic as an engine for growth earlier?

I’ve had one AZ and have the second next week. I’m not a COVID denier, and neither do I believe it’s a 5G conspiracy. Like most on here, I’ve spent my entire career in an environment of regulatory compliance, so if I’m told to stay indoors or wear a mask I’m hardwired to comply.

But for those of you sitting there (many of you in government jobs) telling yourself Australia has done an awesome job, you are completely deluded. This country’s management of this virus has been a ****show of epic proportions. Geography spared us from mass infection and jobkeeper blunted some of the economic pain.

Closing international borders was a good decision, but executed by both feds and state government like 3 year olds finger painting with their own poo.

National cabinet has produced zero collaboration or consensus and merely legitimised state premiers who have repeatedly proved to be low talent administrators driven purely by reelection. In Qld the bag lady, sorry CMO, has actually sabotaged the vaccine rollout she supposedly supports.

The vaccine rollout (sorry feds, this one is all you) was a day late and a dollar short, and world class in terms of lethargy in delivery and confused messaging.

We now find ourselves a laughing stock, or we would do if the media reported any news outside of Australia or NZ, and confined to a miserable and dystopian world of often politically driven lockdowns and decimated consumer confidence, whilst the vaccine rollout continues at a rate even Burkina Faso would be ashamed of.

Yet we sit at home watching the ABC news and tutting about decisions made in the US or UK in a very different environment. Take a bow Australia

Very well written. The post of the year so far.

MCD

[Transition Layer]

Beautifully written! minigundiplomat. Politicians though are ordinary elected australians like us, unlike the the public service that's supposed to be qualified professionals executing the will of the people. It's clearly not what it used to be, all the good ones soaked up by the private sector and replaced by a bunch of new Australians, with level 4 English at best that the private sector wouldn't employ, they will become the next generation of senior public servants.
On a completely different note, China appears to be doing quite well with only 40 or so cases a day for the largest population in the world, extraordinary achievement don't you think.
Yep, bloody amazing. Check out FR24 over China right now - looks a bit healthier than Australia!

[Lead Balloon]

So predictable.

Scotty hides behind the medical experts' advice on the question: "How do we battle Covid-19?", when the political heat ramps up due to the costs (the real costs) of acting on that advice.

The medical experts say - correctly - that it's always Scotty's job to make the decision whether to act on the advice. The medical experts aren't in a position to make the cost/benefit decision.

(And minigundiplomat: You're off with fairies. All of this is fantastic for Australia's economic numbers. That's why we should all be celebrating and encouraging further lockdowns and border closures.)

[Nulli Secundus]

What is making commentary now primarily outside of Australia is the condition known as Long Covid. Up to ten body system can be affected producing heart attacks and brain abnormalities with no ability yet to treat these conditions. One professor from Bristol noted that following the 1918 Flu pandemic Parkinson disease rose significantly and that around half a million Brits may end up with Long Covid. He is particularly concerned for children as their brains are developing. I feel health specialists realise the highest priority must be to prevent people acquiring the disease so that not only is there less immediate strain on the health system, but a 'dormant' dilemma is not seeded within the post covid patient group.

In our country we're almost set up to fail. We basically build homes and holes (housing and mining). Politicians make believe using highly visible business activity to reassure the average voter they're safe, that they have a sense of future certainty. It gains the politician kudos. Without the 'busy-feel' and the associated media releases, Australian politician have nothing. That is their A game. I say never again buy the notion '......... keeping Australians safe.....' The truth is more like ......... ' ...... making Australians think they're safe........'.

My point is decades of spin, deception, scheming and individual failures has meant proper governing skills and the chance to develop those skills has been forfeited, lost forever. You never get a day back. We all let it happen mostly because we felt busy and safe.

Now the real game is on.

The Australian politicians' A game won't work anymore but that won't stop them trying it. Health professional such as epidemiologists are generally not heavy hitters.......... smart, intelligent and wise but up against a politician hell bent on busy = safe, I don't hold a lot of hope for sound leadership out of this turmoil. The last eighteen months would say there's good reason to be concerned.

[minigundiplomat]

So predictable.

Scotty hides behind the medical experts' advice on the question: "How do we battle Covid-19?", when the political heat ramps up due to the costs (the real costs) of acting on that advice.

The medical experts say - correctly - that it's always Scotty's job to make the decision whether to act on the advice. The medical experts aren't in a position to make the cost/benefit decision.

(And minigundiplomat: You're off with fairies. All of this is fantastic for Australia's economic numbers. That's why we should all be celebrating and encouraging further lockdowns and border closures.)

And happy to be so, however unpopular that position is. I’ve said all I have to say and won’t be posting anything further. But before I go, I’ll just pose a question.

Australia used to be THE global benchmark in courage, tenacity, resilience and innovation. When did we become fearful, silent and pearl clutching automons that acquiesce to anything and question nothing?

[Turnleft080]

Queen P about to jump for joy in half an hour. Let me guess, we will get a "This will put Brisbane on the map", comment. Hope the borders are open by then.

[PoppaJo]

Queen P about to jump for joy in half an hour. Let me guess, we will get a "This will put Brisbane on the map", comment. Hope the borders are open by then.
She will probably still be there in 2032. Scotty not so sure.

[mattyj]

Long Covid afflicts almost exclusively those that previously suffered from hypochondria

[KRviator]

So now she has Queensland Olympics for Queenslander's to add to their Queensland Hospitals. Wonder if anyone south of the Tweed River will be allowed to attend?

[Green.Dot]

No surprise here. WA vaccination rates behind the rest of the country. At the end of the day many regions unaffected by COVID don’t give a stuff about the rest of us copping it.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-21/wa-covid-19-vaccination-rates-fall-behind-australia/100312320

[Ladloy]

Long Covid afflicts almost exclusively those that previously suffered from hypochondria
Got a source for that, champ?

[Turnleft080]

Just been listing to 3aw and Dr Ross Walker (a Sydney doc) stated the original Wuhan strain was 5 times more deadly than this delta variant. The Delta variant is only 5 times
more spreadable, though not as deadly. Interesting, all the Chants, Youngs, Suttons declare it's a killer, more deadly than anything, a beast.
The 5 that have sadly passed in NSW were all unvaccinated. That is all your going to get, from NSW health. Any comorbidities, well your not to know.
Also mentioned, 2 of the ICU patients at the moment are Obese. He works in hospitals and I guess news gets around. Just shows governments want to brainwash our minds
with fear, and dower facts. However, slowly slowly bit by bit, little bits of news like this will bring out the truth. You might be able to get a podcast of this tomorrow 'Nights with Dennis Walter'.

[Cloudee]

Just been listing to 3aw and Dr Ross Walker (a Sydney doc) stated the original Wuhan strain was 5 times more deadly than this delta variant. The Delta variant is only 5 times
more spreadable, though not as deadly. Interesting, all the Chants, Youngs, Suttons declare it's a killer, more deadly than anything, a beast.
The 5 that have sadly passed in NSW were all unvaccinated. That is all your going to get, from NSW health. Any comorbidities, well your not to know.
Also mentioned, 2 of the ICU patients at the moment are Obese. He works in hospitals and I guess news gets around. Just shows governments want to brainwash our minds
with fear, and dower facts. However, slowly slowly bit by bit, little bits of news like this will bring out the truth. You might be able to get a podcast of this tomorrow 'Nights with Dennis Walter'.
Nothing like selective quoting and drawing your own conclusions. Here's what you Dr Ross Walker really thinks about how well the government and the health minister, Greg Hunt, have done in combating covid. Slighly different to your take.

Interview with Dr Ross Walker, 2GB Healthy Living, on the COVID-19 vaccine roll out | Health Portfolio Ministers (https://www.health.gov.au/ministers/the-hon-greg-hunt-mp/media/interview-with-dr-ross-walker-2gb-healthy-living-on-the-covid-19-vaccine-roll-out)DR ROSS WALKER:

Greg, can I say, firstly, congratulations to you and your medical team for what you've done in the management of COVID. And I know there's been a few hiccups with the vaccine, but obviously the roll out's going to occur.

But also it's, in many ways, overshadowed the extraordinary achievements with all of the other things, you know, other aspects of medicine you've done. Some of the great drugs you've been able to get on through the PBS for people who otherwise has to pay so much money and couldn't afford it.

So really, I'm in awe of you as our Health Minister, and I hope you stay in the position for many years to come.

[MickG0105]

Nothing like selective quoting and drawing your own conclusions. Here's what you Dr Ross Walker really thinks about how well the government and the health minister, Greg Hunt, have done in combating covid. Slighly different to your take.

Interview with Dr Ross Walker, 2GB Healthy Living, on the COVID-19 vaccine roll out | Health Portfolio Ministers (https://www.health.gov.au/ministers/the-hon-greg-hunt-mp/media/interview-with-dr-ross-walker-2gb-healthy-living-on-the-covid-19-vaccine-roll-out)DR ROSS WALKER:

Greg, can I say, firstly, congratulations to you and your medical team for what you've done in the management of COVID. And I know there's been a few hiccups with the vaccine, but obviously the roll out's going to occur.

But also it's, in many ways, overshadowed the extraordinary achievements with all of the other things, you know, other aspects of medicine you've done. Some of the great drugs you've been able to get on through the PBS for people who otherwise has to pay so much money and couldn't afford it.

So really, I'm in awe of you as our Health Minister, and I hope you stay in the position for many years to come.
That was back in April, wasn't it? Here's (https://www.3aw.com.au/podcast/healthy-living-full-show-podcast-july-18th/) his most recent views on the current situation in Sydney. At 6:30 he acknowledges the extraordinary job that the NSW CMO has done to date, but goes on to disagree with her outdoor masking advice.

[601]

Queen P about to jump for joy in half an hour. Let me guess, we will get a "This will put Brisbane on the map", comment.

How times change.
Queen P gave an emphatic "no" to the idea of an Olympic bid when first raised by the SE Qld Mayors

[Muttley Crew]

Well ****, as Einstein points out, we’ve never had it so good, what I can’t understand is why nobody thought of a global pandemic as an engine for growth earlier?..............you are completely deluded............a ****show of epic proportions. .......3 year olds finger painting with their own poo.............a day late and a dollar short........ world class in terms of lethargy in delivery and confused messaging........We now find ourselves a laughing stock........even Burkina Faso would be ashamed of.......Take a bow Australia

Your post appears to have struck a chord with those easily entertained by little more than uncouth pontifications bestrewed with the odd expletive. If you haven't worked in a contract tracing centre in each state and in a health care covid clinic in each state then you already don't know a majority of how the situation has been managed, in each state. It also sounds as though you're lacking in awareness of how each of the federated states operates as a part of our nation. About the only point you may've hit on the head, albeit inadvertently, is the political nature of some of the so-called "lockdowns" but you'd like to think even the dimmest of observers could see that for what it is. Still, you appealed to the peanut gallery so, well done to you. Please post some links to media reports from outside Australia indicating this country is a "laughing stock" to the rest of the world.

[sumtingwong]

Still, you appealed to the peanut gallery so, well done to you.

And here you post as self appointed Lord of the peanuts.

Condescending hypocrite.

[aviation_enthus]

If you haven't worked in a contract tracing centre in each state and in a health care covid clinic in each state then you already don't know a majority of how the situation has been managed, in each state.

What a load of garbage.

So only those involved in the health system are allowed to judge or pass comment?

The measures used to combat the virus are wide ranging and affect everyone. We are all “end users” in this system. It would be much better (and more sustainable) if there was more weight put on the opinions of normal people! The lack of balance in weighing up restrictions is what got us to this point to start with. And before you get your knickers in a twist, by more weight I mean more than the 0% currently applied. It’s been 100% “health advice” for the last 18 months.

Please post some links to media reports from outside Australia indicating this country is a "laughing stock" to the rest of the world.

If you’re looking for opinion/commentary having a go at Australia’s policies so far, you won’t find it. Believe it or not, but the various talking heads around the world have better things to do! It’s only Aussies in Australia that think they’re that important.

But there’s plenty of factual reporting covering the various restrictions in place. If you bothered to read them you would find almost universal disappointment and anger from Australians stuck overseas looking back. They are the ones that care. They are also “end users” of the farcical quarantine system. Which is another example of COVID policy that hasn’t progressed (for the benefit of all) since it was implemented. Here’s a good summary article to save you the hassle.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/13/how-long-can-australia-go-on-like-this-how-the-world-viewed-feeble-covid-vaccine-rollout

[mattyj]

Can someone please make a list of specific qualifications and recent experience that qualifies a person to have an opinion on Covid 19

at this point from observation it appears the requirement is a PHD in a medicine field, a masters in health management, and 18 months of continuous failure in a bureaucratic government health position

[mattyj]

Speaking of things we’re not allowed to reference, the CDCs VAERS website is now reporting 12500 deaths “adjacent” to getting a Covid vaccination. (Of course the criteria for apportioning blame to the vaccine is not the same as the criteria for apportioning blame to Covid when a death occurs so ignore this number)

also the VAERS website is known to be unreliable (*cough underreports *cough) so disregard

[blubak]

Queen P about to jump for joy in half an hour. Let me guess, we will get a "This will put Brisbane on the map", comment. Hope the borders are open by then.
She did very well considering it was a foregone conclusion as basically nobody else wanted it.
Hope shes got some money put aside for the infrastructure.
Maybe hidden in a Qld bank thats only for Queenslanders🤭

[ManillaChillaDilla]

Your post appears to have struck a chord with those easily entertained by little more than uncouth pontifications bestrewed with the odd expletive. If you haven't worked in a contract tracing centre in each state and in a health care covid clinic in each state then you already don't know a majority of how the situation has been managed, in each state. It also sounds as though you're lacking in awareness of how each of the federated states operates as a part of our nation. About the only point you may've hit on the head, albeit inadvertently, is the political nature of some of the so-called "lockdowns" but you'd like to think even the dimmest of observers could see that for what it is. Still, you appealed to the peanut gallery so, well done to you. Please post some links to media reports from outside Australia indicating this country is a "laughing stock" to the rest of the world.
Thanks for the laugh mate.

I needed that and really enjoyed your sarcastic humour. Keep them coming!!.

I think the general consensus is that Aiustralia is a laughing stock from within its borders. Forget about looking for comentary from overseas.

" Bestrewed". Love it. Is that like " Strewth " guvna?

MCD

[MickG0105]

Speaking of things we’re not allowed to reference, the CDCs VAERS website is now reporting 12500 deaths “adjacent” to getting a Covid vaccination.
Where are you getting 12,500 deaths from? The CDC summary as of 19 July 2021 states '6,079 reports of death':

Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 334 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 13, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,079 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.
That's the CDC's bolding.

[Gnadenburg]

Speaking of things we’re not allowed to reference, the CDCs VAERS website is now reporting 12500 deaths “adjacent” to getting a Covid vaccination. (Of course the criteria for apportioning blame to the vaccine is not the same as the criteria for apportioning blame to Covid when a death occurs so ignore this number)

also the VAERS website is known to be unreliable (*cough underreports *cough) so disregard

How old were they? Any underlining health issues?

I live in an Australian retirement town. God's Waiting Room. Many look like they'll be dead in weeks. Overweight and immobile. Yet we are surround by beaches and fine food. Western societies sure have some major health concerns beyond COVID.

[Aussie Bob]

Speaking of things we’re not allowed to reference, the CDCs VAERS website is now reporting 12500 deaths “adjacent” to getting a Covid vaccination. (Of course the criteria for apportioning blame to the vaccine is not the same as the criteria for apportioning blame to Covid when a death occurs so ignore this number)

Speaking of things we are not allowed to mention, it is always a good idea to research impartially both sides of the argument without bias. Given that we have zero debate in this country and "its our way or the highway" a little research of the "opposition" and what they say can fill in the big picture

https://www.globalresearch.ca

The truth is, nobody knows what the truth is

[Green.Dot]

Looking to the future as far as I am concerned this is all you have to look at.

If you can’t see the positives in this graph for the UK you are either stupid, or want to live in a bubble forever.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/948x1059/6845f969_d6ab_470f_8320_55457cada52e_8de700f087bbec5e45899af 73c42ef1660f4a406.jpeg

Acknowledging Australia isn’t there with vaccinations YET, but when we get there I truly hope the Australian Govt/Premiers show some balls and follow the UKs lead.

[dr dre]

Speaking of things we are not allowed to mention, it is always a good idea to research impartially both sides of the argument without bias. Given that we have zero debate in this country and "its our way or the highway" a little research of the "opposition" and what they say can fill in the big picture

Middle Ground Fallacy Examples to Spot During an Argument (https://www.developgoodhabits.com/middle-ground/)

https://www.globalresearch.ca

The truth is, nobody knows what the truth is

Yes, there is a verifiable truth, and you’re not getting it from that website (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/global-research/):

Overall, we rate GlobalResearch a Tin Foil Hat Conspiracy and Strong Pseudoscience website based on the promotion of unproven information such as the dangers of Vaccines and 9-11 as a false flag operation.

[dr dre]

Looking to the future as far as I am concerned this is all you have to look at.

If you can’t see the positives in this graph for the UK you are either stupid, or want to live in a bubble forever.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/948x1059/6845f969_d6ab_470f_8320_55457cada52e_8de700f087bbec5e45899af 73c42ef1660f4a406.jpeg

Acknowledging Australia isn’t there with vaccinations YET, but when we get there I truly hope the Australian Govt/Premiers show some balls and follow the UKs lead.

And that’s just more solid evidence to debunk anti-vaxxers.

The difference between UK and Australia being the UK has administered first dose to 90% and second dose to 70% of the adult population, Australia is at 29% and 11% respectively.

[common cents]

Telling graph!
But.....Sky news reporting that the death rate in US is 0.5/100000 in largely unvaccinated group. Death rate in UK is 0.4/100000 in largely vaccinated group.
Maybe that Dr Ross is onto something.

[43Inches]

[QUOTE]I live in an Australian retirement town. God's Waiting Room. Many look like they'll be dead in weeks. Overweight and immobile. Yet we are surround by beaches and fine food. Western societies sure have some major health concerns beyond COVID.[/QUO

Lifestyle choices are generally not contagious and therefore you have the choice whether to die from obesity and its related diseases. Covid is a Virus, when one person gets it and acts irresponsibly they can pass it onto someone who has done everything right and they die from it. Also being a virus it has an evolutionary drive to exist, the longer it stays in a community, and the wider it spreads, the more likely it will change and adapt to its hosts defenses, the same way in which it jumped host species to start this off.

One of the sad realities of letting covid run in the community is that those in aged care and those that are vulnerable will be shut off from having a normal life and consigned to a jail like existence, again comes down to what price is freedom for the rest of us. I have family in aged care, and they are have been in lockdown for most of this pandemic. Are you all willing to work hard all life and then be jailed in retirement instead of being able to travel? What is done to the old and frail in this instance will set the tone for how you are treated later in life.

As far as deaths from vaccines, the general medical stance is what is the benefit verses the cost. When you undertake corrective surgery for a condition the doctor will inform you of the risk, normally in percentage, some common procedures like joint replacement can be around the 0.5% rate of death, way higher than any vaccine. There is a vast difference between the death rate of 1 in 100 thousand vaccine deaths vs 1 in 100 deaths from the virus it protects against, which can easily climb to 1 in 20 deaths if the health system is overwhelmed. The WHO considers a acceptable death rate as better than 1 in 10,000.

One set of news that does apply to our group is that I learned of another Pilot in the US who is looking at permanent grounding from the aftereffects of Covid, stay away from it, get vaccinated, then keep staying away from it.

[MickG0105]

Speaking of things we are not allowed to mention, it is always a good idea to research impartially both sides of the argument without bias. Given that we have zero debate in this country and "its our way or the highway" a little research of the "opposition" and what they say can fill in the big picture

https://www.globalresearch.ca

Bob, I advocate looking at different views and perspectives but with a finite amount of time I'm simply not going to be allocating much of that to stories about the Pfizer vaccine being laced with graphene oxide or that mRNA vaccines are permanently altering the human genome.

The truth is, nobody knows what the truth is
And no, leaving aside the logical invalidity of that statement, there are plenty of objective, testable truths.

[mattyj]

for some reason they’ve revised the number back down again..for a brief time it was 12000 plus

“Between December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) received 12,313 reports of death among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.

UPDATE: As of 2:30 PM CT on July 21, 2021, the CDC's website modified the number of VARS reports related to COVID-19 vaccination deaths from 12,313 to 6,079, through July 13, 2021. The CDC's webpage Last Update date remains July 19, 2021.”

[dr dre]

You guys keeping posting those numbers without ever including this statement on the exact same page:

FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines.

You keeping repeating those figures but never include that statement. Every time you do someone sensible here points out that CDC statement, but you guys continue to post that rubbish again and again as if you’ve just made some incredible discovery the “brainwashed sheeple” aren’t aware of.

Can’t you see people on this page aren’t falling for this?

[43Inches]

for some reason they’ve revised the number back down again..for a brief time it was 12000 plus

It may be because the WHO only just released a definition of what constitutes a death related to the vaccine. Specifically related to low platelet count of those that died from clots post Jab. Others may have been ruled out as coincidental deaths, not caused by the vaccine. You have to remember the causation is not clearly understood, but they now have an understanding around the circumstance, so can verify if it was due to vaccine or not, or at least rule out those that were definitely not.

[chookcooker]

And that’s just more solid evidence to debunk anti-vaxxers.

The difference between UK and Australia being the UK has administered first dose to 90% and second dose to 70% of the adult population, Australia is at 29% and 11% respectively.
Nah the dumb fvcks will just say it’s proof Delta is less dangerous

[mattyj]

A virus mutating to become less virulent but more contagious is normal

[MickG0105]

for some reason they’ve revised the number back down again..for a brief time it was 12000 plus

“Between December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) received 12,313 reports of death among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.

UPDATE: As of 2:30 PM CT on July 21, 2021, the CDC's website modified the number of VARS reports related to COVID-19 vaccination deaths from 12,313 to 6,079, through July 13, 2021. The CDC's webpage Last Update date remains July 19, 2021.”
Okey doke, so that has been pulled from a secondary source. I think we've previously covered the problem with relying on secondary reporting of primary source data.

To further underscore the problem with secondary and higher reporting, the CDC does not use phrases like 'COVID-19 vaccination deaths' with regards to the VAERS reporting data. In fact they go out of their way to repeatedly stress that Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.

Any reporting that passes off VAERS reporting as 'COVID-19 vaccination deaths' is somewhere between so woefully ignorant as to be useless and so maliciously disingenuous as to be dangerous.

[Max Tow]

[QUOTE=43Inches

One of the sad realities of letting covid run in the community is that those in aged care and those that are vulnerable will be shut off from having a normal life and consigned to a jail like existence, again comes down to what price is freedom for the rest of us. I have family in aged care, and they are have been in lockdown for most of this pandemic. Are you all willing to work hard all life and then be jailed in retirement instead of being able to travel? What is done to the old and frail in this instance will set the tone for how you are treated later in life.

[/QUOTE]

Agree with you on the comparative risk analysis (which our leaders and health authorities seen unable to convey), but your paragraph on the elderly is confusing to me - you seem to conclude that they will be imprisoned either way, whether through letting covid run, or in protective lockdown with everyone else?

However, to bite the bullet of your warning re the elderly, I would suggest that our economic ability to provide for this section of society (which was already under growing strain with retiring baby boomers and increased retired life expectancy) is dependent upon the younger part of the population being able to get back to wealth creating work that can underpin such welfare.

I would add that I'm elderly, fully vaccinated (AZ, nil ill-effect) and with no intention of being "jailed in retirement", as you put it!

[bekolblockage]

You guys keeping posting those numbers without ever including this statement on the exact same page:

FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines.

You keeping repeating those figures but never include that statement. Every time you do someone sensible here points out that CDC statement, but you guys continue to post that rubbish again and again as if you’ve just made some incredible discovery the “brainwashed sheeple” aren’t aware of.

Can’t you see people on this page aren’t falling for this?

Thank you dr dre. Well said.
Whenever I come to read this and other threads I generally go straight to your posts.
They help me avoid the utter tripe written by several of the other posters.

[43Inches]

A virus mutating to become less virulent but more contagious is normal

Not normal, there is no normal behavior for virus in general. The main theory is that if a virus kills its host too quickly it will not survive, or pass on to another host. Covid as we all know is not as deadly as Ebola, so it has a long way to go before it is immobilising its host before given chance to transmit. Some viruses have become less virulent, some maintained the same and our systems adapted. Others were vaccinated or became dormant, or died out, there's suggestion the black death is just as deadly now as it was back in medieval days.

However, to bite the bullet of your warning re the elderly, I would suggest that our economic ability to provide for this section of society (which was already under growing strain with retiring baby boomers and increased retired life expectancy) is dependent upon the younger part of the population being able to get back to wealth creating work that can underpin such welfare

Australia is far away from ever not being able to afford that, they could cancel the submarine program overnight and double the aged care pension and still have change.

[MickG0105]

A virus mutating to become less virulent but more contagious is normal
You need to be careful with statements like that. As viruses mutate the more transmissible mutations tend to dominate because they can outpace their less transmissible forebears in spreading throughout a population. It is unsurprising that the Delta-variant is more transmissible than previous dominant variants but it is largely happenstance that it is less virulent (has a lower case fatality rate).

Ebola, West Nile virus, and the Spanish flu are all examples of viruses that became more virulent after mutating. We also routinely see seasonal flus that are more deadly than their previous strain.

[TBM-Legend]

A virus mutating to become less virulent but more contagious is normal


How do you know that?

PPRUNE has become DRPRUNE it seems....

[Gnadenburg]

You guys keeping posting those numbers without ever including this statement on the exact same page:

FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines.

You keeping repeating those figures but never include that statement. Every time you do someone sensible here points out that CDC statement, but you guys continue to post that rubbish again and again as if you’ve just made some incredible discovery the “brainwashed sheeple” aren’t aware of.

Can’t you see people on this page aren’t falling for this?

Yes. Well put.

This was my connection to living in a coastal community with very old and visibly unhealthy Australians. They are getting vaccinated in large numbers knowing the COVID lessons from decadent and slothenly societies such as the USA. Of course, they are still dying in the same week, month or year as being vaccinated. Doesn't mean the vaccine is killing them.

[Gnadenburg]

And out of interest ( again ) can reluctant vaxers post as to whether they've lost their livelihoods in aviation due to COVID?

[Max Tow]

Australia is far away from ever not being able to afford that, they could cancel the submarine program overnight and double the aged care pension and still have change.

I think you're somewhat missing my point. Whether the nation's wealth is spent on submarines or aged care, it is only created by a sufficient element of the population being out and about labouring, paying taxes and buying goods & services.

Remove the current Chinese willingness to pay record prices for our fortunately socially-distanced mineral production (which happy circumstance owes nothing to our political decision makers) and the country would be (will be?) in deep trouble. Hiding in caves may be a short term expedient while awaiting a solution but it isn't the way out. Science is.