All borders to reopen.

[Fuel-Off]

My airline still requires all crew to have the little yellow booklet showing all our vaccinations. Agree with the sentiment above that the (to use an already tired term) 'new norm' will have international (or even interstate) travellers to be vaccinated, and hence for the yellow book to be needed again. No inoculation, no travel. At least that would bring our industry a bit of much needed normalcy.

Fuel-Off :ok:

[wheels_down]

Wow. Auckland back on Stage 3 tomorrow. Rest of NZ stage 2.

Outbreaks incoming...

[SOPS]

Wow. Auckland back on Stage 3 tomorrow. Rest of NZ stage 2.

Outbreaks incoming...

And NT closing borders for the next 18 months!!!

I have never been into conspiracy theories.. but the way this thing pops up
with no known source .. it’s almost like there are ‘ sleeper agents’ that are dropping it into the population.

[wheels_down]

Gunner is just trying to show some authority. I think most of our friends in the NT can see through his BS.

[Turnleft080]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/08/covid-19-auckland-entering-alert-level-3-from-midday-wednesday.html
Struth 4 cases. Lockdown stage 3 for only 3 days.
So if Jacinta was Victoria's premier we would need to get to 4 cases for stage 3 to occur. Wow just wow.

[Fonz121]

Crisis over everyone. Russia has a vaccine.

[Turnleft080]

Crisis over everyone. Russia has a vaccine.
Let me guess a shot of vodka into the arm.

[brokenagain]

So if Jacinta was Victoria's premier we would need to get to 4 cases for stage 3 to occur. Wow just wow.

Absolute incredible over reaction, but it’s the rod that it seems politicians on both sides of the Tasman have made for their own backs. It’s the only reaction available to them after all their complete eradication rhetoric.

[SOPS]

Gunner is just trying to show some authority. I think most of our friends in the NT can see through his BS.

You may well be right, wheels down. However, as a counterpoint, if I put a post on here a year ago, describing what is going on now .. you would have said I was full of BS.

[Turnleft080]

The news from NZ shows complete eradication does not work. Thus lockdowns don't work. It's proven. End of story. I wonder if Dan can understand this.
Engage plan B. Hope he's got one.

[Buster Hyman]

Plan B? Early election perhaps?

[compressor stall]

T. I wonder if Dan can understand this. Engage plan B. Hope he's got one.

As long as WA / NT / QLD / TAS have effectively zero community transmission, Dan (and Gladys) can only have one outcome - elimination.

The state borders will not open whilst one side has zero community transmission and the other has some community transmission. It would be political suicide for the zero transmission premier.

Dan (and Gladys) have only one option for the unity of this country - and that is to get elimination.

I don't think it's the best approach (due to precisely what's happened in NZ) but they are being held to ransom by the economy of the country (and the airline industry) to do anything else.

[Stickshift3000]

The news from NZ shows complete eradication does not work. Thus lockdowns don't work. It's proven. End of story. I wonder if Dan can understand this.
Engage plan B. Hope he's got one.

Eradication is not the goal in Victoria.

Suppression is the strategy, with the goal of not overwhelming hospital intensive care units.

[blubak]

Eradication is not the goal in Victoria.

Suppression is the strategy, with the goal of not overwhelming hospital intensive care units.
Fair enough to have that goal but whats being done about the deaths from aged care,over 60% of the total deaths from that sector.
I read a statement from the minister responsible for that sector,he indicated the claims about poorly funded etc being untrue,he obviously lives in another world.
Dont think it wont happen in another state.

[ruprecht]

Fair enough to have that goal but whats being done about the deaths from aged care,over 60% of the total deaths from that sector.
I read a statement from the minister responsible for that sector,he indicated the claims about poorly funded etc being untrue,he obviously lives in another world.
Dont think it wont happen in another state.
There are two ways out of a nursing home:

1. You go to the morgue.

2. You go to hospital, and then you go to the morgue.

[empacher48]

I don't think it's the best approach (due to precisely what's happened in NZ) but they are being held to ransom by the economy of the country (and the airline industry) to do anything else.

It’s not a fair call to make to say that elimination has failed in NZ. From the 1st of April our Director-General of Health in NZ has said elimination cannot be defined as a single point in time, but is an going process where flare ups and new cases will be discovered. But once new cases have been discovered all measures, including new lockdowns, will be implemented in order to control the spread.

The government has always tried to explain to the public that just because we’ve had no community transmission in NZ, doesn’t mean the worldwide pandemic has gone away. As seen in Melbourne all you need is an error in your Quarantine and Managed Isolation facilities to let it out. At least the errors made in Melbourne have shown once again, act fast before you loose control.

So yes, we’ve gone from no community transmission and will likely be locked down in Auckland for a few weeks or a month. But as we saw in NZ during April, lockdown works. But you just don’t do it once, you do it when you have to and if we have to do this every 5 months until such time treatments or vaccines are available, then so be it.

Our boarders won’t be open until mid next year. ScMo has already said for Australia it won’t be NZ to individual states, but to Australia as a whole.

Here is hoping the phase 3 trials prove successful later this year.

[Stickshift3000]

Fair enough to have that goal but whats being done about the deaths from aged care,over 60% of the total deaths from that sector.
I read a statement from the minister responsible for that sector,he indicated the claims about poorly funded etc being untrue,he obviously lives in another world.
Dont think it wont happen in another state.

There is a fairly large disparity in the number of cases in private versus public aged care facilities.

Scrupulous private operators that have been cost-cutting can't deliver the same standard of care using their highly casualised (and poorly paid) work force.

The Minister that you refer to is possibly commenting only on public facilities that rely on government funding.

[Turnleft080]

The news from NZ shows complete eradication does not work. Thus lockdowns don't work. It's proven. End of story. I wonder if Dan can understand this.
Engage plan B. Hope he's got one.
Well here is my plan B. Lockdown all age care and all 70 years old above. Lockdown those under 70 with health conditions.
All healthy under 70 back to work. Everyone keeps their mask on every one has a sanitiser bottle and social distance etc. so transmission is very small.
Everyone needs to boost their immune system markedly as I have portrayed before, to have minimal effects for any illness for that matter. Get rid of those chemical stresses.
What the government doesn't tell you is the percentage rates from not dying from this. What ever graph you prefer it will show 98% above 70s of surviving and 99.6% for healthy
people of surviving covid. That 2% and 0.4% is what is emphasised every press conference.
The TV commercial with that 30 year old, that was released yesterday only shows that 0.4%. What the add didn't say did she have a underlying condition.
That's my model. If every state implicated this we can get back to work.

Another thing, lockdowns. Why do they lower your immune system? Your anti-bodies and T-cells (defence shield) also fall asleep in this lockdown (like living in a bubble.)
They need to be active they go to war every min of the day to fight of all pathogens. They need exposure. That's how they get stronger. That's how we survive from our ancestry.

[Xeptu]

Not to alarm anybody, but Mad Max took place in 2021. Just sayin :)

[Xeptu]

The TV commercial with that 30 year old, that was released yesterday only shows that 0.4%. What the add didn't say did she have a underlying condition.

Yes it did and no she didn't, but she does now.
The greater majority of Australians want eradication and no-one gives a **** what you think.

[goodonyamate]

And the greater majority of Australians should be looking at NZ and thinking “maybe eradication isn’t possible...how do we live with this thing”

[Xeptu]

roundup all those that don't want eradication and move them to Melbourne. Problem solved.

[Turnleft080]

Those managing the pandemic live in the cities and inner burbs, the ones that slap themselves on the back and tell everyone how good we australians are.
The ones that have never seen a Bushfire/Flood emergency escape plan. The ones that don't even have a fire blanket let alone a fire extinguisher in their own homes, you could be one of them. So don't be too surprised if the Pandemic Management turns out to be an Epic Fail.
Just trying to find a comment that you and I agree on Xeptu. Found one, "So don't be too surprised if the Pandemic Management turns out to be an Epic Fail."

[Xeptu]

That's right, management of the virus is likely to fail. That doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't even bother to try. Given there are 4 states and territories that have done very well, with a few management stumbles but by and large successful, tells us that eradication is feasible and the preferred option. Our state has our fair share of "who cares" people too and that's a concern, that's why it's important to do everything we can to keep the virus out. you can choose to be part of the solution or part of the problem. You Sir right now are part of the problem.

[Turnleft080]

That's right, management of the virus is likely to fail. That doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't even bother to try. Given there are 4 states and territories that have done very well, with a few management stumbles but by and large successful, tells us that eradication is feasible and the preferred option. Our state has our fair share of "who cares" people too and that's a concern, that's why it's important to do everything we can to keep the virus out. you can choose to be part of the solution or part of the problem. You Sir right now are part of the problem.
No I'm not part of the problem. NZ has just proved that eradication doesn't work. If you can eradicate this then we may as well lockdown for the common cold
lockdown for the flu. Even though we have a flu jab it only protects you 40 to 60% of the time as it says on the vile. So even if you get the shot you can still catch the flu.
I know we differ, yours is eradicate mine is learn to live with it. Interesting argument. Mask on. Cheers and isolated beers.

[Ragnor]

Other states and territories may have done “very well” NSW and Victoria did all the heavy lifting in terms of incoming international repatriation flights. WA, QLD,SA and NT barely lifted a finger did SA and NT even take anyone? If the load was shared outcome would be most different.. now other states and territories won’t have a bar of us, in return at least we should send them the bill for looking after their residents.

[On eyre]

Other states and territories may have done “very well” NSW and Victoria did all the heavy lifting in terms of incoming international repatriation flights. WA, QLD,SA and NT barely lifted a finger did SA and NT even take anyone? If the load was shared outcome would be most different.. now other states and territories won’t have a bar of us, in return at least we should send them the bill for looking after their residents.

Well SA did take quite a few actually and managed them properly so no community transmission from them.

[Xeptu]

Yes you are part of the problem and there will be no living with it, that is the decision of the majority. There is nothing more to say about it.

[goodonyamate]

Took a survey did you?

or do you just get all your info from Facebook

[Xeptu]

Online Survey, every week, the question on closed borders supported by 83%, follow up asking 10 random people, do you think the state border should be open or closed. The result is pretty much inline with the online surveys. Don't you do surveys in your state.

Let me put it another way. If you came onto our private property arguing that by your presence the chance of any of us have only a 0.04% chance of dying and even then that would only be 0.00001% of the population. I would still shoot you in the face.

[Bend alot]

did SA and NT even take anyone?


More than 430 people have been taken to the Darwin facility, some from Wuhan and some from the Diamond Princess cruise ship in Japan.

This was very early on - The two hottest COVID spots at the time.

[ruprecht]

I would still shoot you in the face.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x281/39d36625_0df9_4b70_b235_72a693079166_fe18c04b79b67599db93061 dedca0243978929ad.gif

[Turnleft080]

Yes you are part of the problem and there will be no living with it, that is the decision of the majority. There is nothing more to say about it.
Eradication. For that to happen everyone sits in a 5km bubble for the next 2 years. The curve will go up and down forever. Job keeper finishes in March.
Everyone will just fall off the cliff. The plan B, I suggested seamed to of worked for thousands of years. Isolate the sick and venerable, keep the healthy working.
Though isolating the healthy has never been done before in our civilisation. All governments around the world obtained these instructions from the WHO.
Here is the crux of this argument Xeptu.
The only thing I agree on in a lockdown, is locking the virus in it's nucleus stage. The WHO sat on their hands for a month. The word Covid is a red flashing light
not a master caution they should of immediately placed a 30km wall on Wuhan with a 10km transgression zone. No one goes in or out. Prohibited. That's when you can now eradicate it.
Though it jumped the wall (non wall) and it's all over the world now. That's why you cannot eradicate it. It's spread. The virus has done it's thing. Plan A cannot be accomplished.
Anyone else got a plan B. We know Andrew's gov have stuffed up, but more anger should be directed to that WHO mob.

[brokenagain]

Let me put it another way. If you came onto our private property arguing that by your presence the chance of any of us have only a 0.04% chance of dying and even then that would only be 0.00001% of the population. I would still shoot you in the face.

Best you lock yourself away on your property and not drive a car if you’re truly worried about risk.

[KRviator]

Sydney Airport International Arrivals 13/8/20: ANA879 (787-9/246 seats), ANZ103 (787-9/302 seats), UAL863 (787-9/252 seats), QR908 (777-300/354 seats), ETD454 (787-9/299 seats).
Melbourne International Arrivals 13/8/20: CSN321 (A330-300/284 seats)

Total capacity to the east coast: 1737 available seats. Though you could probably say only 50% of those would be filled due to social distancing.

And then there's Perth:

0 arrivals. Zero. Zip. Nada. Oh, they only allow 525 international arrivals per week anyway. Yet they have the gall to tell half the country they can't travel to WA "because we don't have Covid over here"...Maybe they should start pulling their weight.

[Awol57]

Sydney Airport International Arrivals 13/8/20: ANA879 (787-9/246 seats), ANZ103 (787-9/302 seats), UAL863 (787-9/252 seats), QR908 (777-300/354 seats), ETD454 (787-9/299 seats).
Melbourne International Arrivals 13/8/20: CSN321 (A330-300/284 seats)

Total capacity to the east coast: 1737 available seats. Though you could probably say only 50% of those would be filled due to social distancing.

And then there's Perth:

0 arrivals. Zero. Zip. Nada. Oh, they only allow 525 international arrivals per week anyway. Yet they have the gall to tell half the country they can't travel to WA "because we don't have Covid over here"...Maybe they should start pulling their weight.Caps on international passenger arrivalsNational Cabinet agreed that existing caps on international passenger arrivals would continue in order to manage and maintain quarantine arrangements across jurisdictions.

Until 24 October the following will apply subject to further advice on quarantine capacity:

Sydney – limit of 350 passenger arrivals per day;
Perth – limit of 525 passenger arrivals per week;
Brisbane – limit of 500 passenger arrivals per week;
Adelaide – limit of 500 passenger arrivals per week;
Canberra, Darwin – passenger limits on each flight to be discussed with jurisdictions on a case-by-case basis;
Hobart – no international flights

https://www.pm.gov.au/media/national-cabinet-7aug2020

I mean its great you have a lot of available seats but really it's 350/1737 seats in Sydney. But don't let any facts get in the way

[Xeptu]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/274x184/madmax_63f3b11dc59227a0c4f55ff678b8ca6e4dd8beab.jpg
Badass :) MadMax occurred in 2021

[BDAttitude]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x363/3dayswithoutcovid_b9e539440d984aa120aca28c8bbcce11598b65d9.p ng

[KRviator]

Caps on international passenger arrivals
National Cabinet agreed that existing caps on international passenger arrivals would continue in order to manage and maintain quarantine arrangements across jurisdictions.

Until 24 October the following will apply subject to further advice on quarantine capacity:

Sydney – limit of 350 passenger arrivals per day;
Perth – limit of 525 passenger arrivals per week;
Brisbane – limit of 500 passenger arrivals per week;
Adelaide – limit of 500 passenger arrivals per week;
Canberra, Darwin – passenger limits on each flight to be discussed with jurisdictions on a case-by-case basis;
Hobart – no international flights

https://www.pm.gov.au/media/national-cabinet-7aug2020

I mean its great you have a lot of available seats but really it's 350/1737 seats in Sydney. But don't let any facts get in the wayFair call. I'll defer to your Google-fu, apparently mine is not as good...

But the point remains WA has themselves limited international arrivals to barely 20% of Sydney's limit, despite their population being 1/3 of NSW's so they will have a disproportionately lower case count, yet they still accuse pretty much every resident of NSW/Vic of having The Pestilence and refusing them access to WA.

[Xeptu]

But the point remains WA has themselves limited international arrivals to barely 20% of Sydney's limit, despite their population being 1/3 of NSW's so they will have a disproportionately lower case count, yet they still accuse pretty much every resident of NSW/Vic of having The Pestilence and refusing them access to WA.

Absolutely and that's why NSW is on a knifes edge. should it fall its borders will close. QLD then has no choice but to close also. Perhaps then we can get on with the business of eradicating the virus and stop community transmission. If arrivals can't be manged properly, quarantined and contained, then we have to stop that too.

[KRviator]

But, Mexico aside, the states have proven they can manage new arrivals, be that domestic travellers or international passengers. Mandatory quarantine works, and works well, when it is enforced. If that means in a Government facility, so be it. You want to travel, you have to pay for it - and that is fair I think.

[Bend alot]

Regardless of local population of each state, the above incoming number of arrivals is reasonably similar (above 100 below 500).

But each arrival has the same chance of having Covid 19, the same chance of a mild or serious case and the same chance of requiring a ICU bed. Each arrival is unknown.

We do know the total number of ICU beds, medical resources, funding, and cost of delivery across the states and territories and that is disproportional.

Fed funding (millions) for WA is $2,521 while NSW and Vic get $7,212 & $5,876 respectively.

It is clear Vic has gone into overload on it's health system, so it is logical that WA with a much smaller budget will have a much smaller ability to deal with a Covid breakout. Far less than half that of Vic given the cost of delivery in WA.

Xeptu - We can not stop arrivals of our citizens, some are being "evicted" from countries they are currently in, they need some place to go.

[Xeptu]

Xeptu - We can not stop arrivals of our citizens, some are being "evicted" from countries they are currently in, they need some place to go.

Agreed and I'm not suggesting we should. It appears the states have that intake managed and is under control.

[Bend alot]

It is clear we are going to have border and quarantine issues for some time.

Being isolated for 2 weeks stuck in a room sucks.

But if we could group quarantine with say up to 200 people within a fixed location such as a resort it would be a lot more bearable. You could use the restaurants, bars, tennis courts or even the 9 hole golf course on some, all with the other 200 people - a little bubble. But 14 days is still a long time in that bubble.

So mix it up, have a cluster of bubbles use 4 resorts (4 day, 4 days, 3 days & 3 days) all with the same people travelling at the same time. More a mini holiday while quarantining. The resorts could be in different states. If any come down with Covid the show is over and it is lock down for 2 weeks, but that is a risk I would take. But clear this quarantine and have full access to the state you exit as if you were a local.

A trial could be set up within a state to get the logistics worked out, then expand the model nationwide as a goal to use for international arrivals. Possible to have test done before departure, results would be back before you departed the first resort. Resort staff would need to be part of the bubble possibly on a x on x off cycle.

Obviously there is much to consider and cost would be a factor, but we have some pretty good resorts scattered around this country and spending 3 or 4 days within it's walls/fences is far from feeling like doing time.

It is an alternate quarantine method that could create jobs and get the economy moving.

[compressor stall]

It is clear we are going to have border and quarantine issues for some time.

Being isolated for 2 weeks stuck in a room sucks.

But if we could group quarantine with say up to 200 people within a fixed location such as a resort it would be a lot more bearable. You could use the restaurants, bars, tennis courts or even the 9 hole golf course on some, all with the other 200 people - a little bubble. But 14 days is still a long time in that bubble.

So mix it up, have a cluster of bubbles use 4 resorts (4 day, 4 days, 3 days & 3 days) all with the same people travelling at the same time. More a mini holiday while quarantining. The resorts could be in different states. If any come down with Covid the show is over and it is lock down for 2 weeks, but that is a risk I would take. But clear this quarantine and have full access to the state you exit as if you were a local.

A trial could be set up within a state to get the logistics worked out, then expand the model nationwide as a goal to use for international arrivals. Possible to have test done before departure, results would be back before you departed the first resort. Resort staff would need to be part of the bubble possibly on a x on x off cycle.



And then one person shows symptoms on day 10 and is positive so everyone in the bubble is a close contact. Then they ALL start their 2 weeks again. Rinse and repeat. You'll be in there for a lot longer than 2 weeks on average, and end up with a lot more people infected. And who pays for that.

On the pro side, EK require negative PCR test for all pax before boarding - to be shown at checkin - so there are fewer positive cases travelling.

[Xeptu]

Hopefully we'll have a portable test that is reliable and returns a result in a couple of minutes. I know they're working on it. Mandatory quarantine for everyone, whether you're infected or not won't be required then. A game changer.

[Mach E Avelli]

Hopefully we'll have a portable test that is reliable and returns a result in a couple of minutes. I know they're working on it. Mandatory quarantine for everyone, whether you're infected or not won't be required then. A game changer.
Ah, but mandatory testing would then be required. I can just see the civil libertarians going along with that. They'd be terrified that Big Brother would steal our DNA - all the better to convict us of some heinous crime.

[Square Bear]

When the Feds stop JobKeeper for the Tourism industry (give responsibility to the States) watch QLD relax the borders....$B100 debt and climbing which will see the Govt step down from the high ground, NT next.

WA..guessing they can’t keep making laws against Big Clive, or secede (haha)

Really, if it continues long enough, the country has to end up under Federal Control.

Anyway...hope the Ruskies are on a winner........and telling the truth!!

[Section28- BE]

When the Feds stop JobKeeper for the Tourism industry (give responsibility to the States) watch QLD relax the borders....$B100 debt and climbing which will see the Govt step down from the high ground, NT next.

WA..guessing they can’t keep making laws against Big Clive, or secede (haha)

Really, if it continues long enough, the country has to end up under Federal Control.

Anyway...hope the Ruskies are on a winner........and telling the truth!!

Weeell- our 'local' Broad-Sheet (not controlled by Rupert), reckons- That, 'they' (the Ruskies) have 'it' nailed/drilled.......?????

Link here: https://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncategorized/australia-puts-in-express-order-for-1000000-doses-of-russias-shiny-new-covid-19-vaccine/

'We' here, are in year #9 of a Drought and don't get out much- but, do get all our outside news ex the Diamantina's finest....., 'apparently' Scomo is acting proactively as well, and all over 'it'......

rgds
S28- BE

[Ragnor]

Fully loaded Antonov with Ruskies bringing the Vaccine now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyvY2GK9B3M

[Xeptu]

He's pretty brave if it's true he vaccinated his own daughter with it.

[Section28- BE]

Link here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-14/border-force-ruby-princess-qantas-virgin-manifest-coronavirus/12550558

rgds
S28- BE

[Stickshift3000]

Link here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-14/border-force-ruby-princess-qantas-virgin-manifest-coronavirus/12550558

A fine display of government incompetence.

It would have been relatively straight forward under public health legislation to put all Ruby Princess passengers into mandatory quarantine while awaiting test results.

[Green.Dot]

A fine display of government incompetence.

It would have been relatively straight forward under public health legislation to put all Ruby Princess passengers into mandatory quarantine while awaiting test results.

Everything was underestimated about this virus in the early days. Only the Asian nations that learnt the hard way with SARS etc seemed to go hard early.

[73qanda]

The assumption that responsibility for stopping passengers board aeroplanes lay with others was pervasive
— governments and airlines looked to Border Force but Border Force said the power was with airlines.


This is a fancy way of saying that within all the organisations involved, none of the high paid executives showed any real leadership.
It’s a scarce commodity now days, and most can’t quite cope with the concept of doing something that they know is right, but will potentially have negative impacts for them personally.

[Turnleft080]

Sad as it is and unfortunate as it is, if this is not an old peoples disease, then why does he have to provide
the ages of the deaths at each press conference. If he provides the ages, then it feels like Dan is insinuating it's an old people's disease.
Or conversely is he trying to insinuate it's a young people's disease.
Just say the number. (Hope no numbers). We don't need to know the ages. We don't need to know wether its male/female.
If your going to disclose ages then disclose any underlying conditions. No, we can't do that, we must shock & awe
not go about it with common sense and practicability.

The post I wrote, "This is my plan B....etc" on 12 Aug, I copied and paste it to Channel 7s House of Wellness, of course, I wasn't really expecting a reply.
To my surprise, I did get a reply though due to copyright, I don't think I'm allowed to place the email here. I would if allowed.
Though if I can say, Gerald Quigley agreed me. Good news on the percentage recovery rate isn't good media news. Leave it at that.
No, I don't want a friggen medal, it's just a friggen recommendation for all businesses to friggen get back to work.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

What I really would like to know is,

IF AFL teams can be put into a 'bubble' and the games go on, then why oh why cannot our most vulnerable people - aka the 'Elderly', (one of which I hope to be in the future, as the alternative is cold and dark - some say...) why cannot the 'elderly' be put into a 'bubble' also..??

One way may be is to stop the number of staff who work 'part time' in several facilities, into having all staff work only in the ONE facility, with very regular testing.
This may preclude the virus from travelling from one facility to another....

e.g. IF 'Country Vic' is virus free, as many have stated on the radio etc, then why not transfer as many as possible to 'Country' locations until the Vic 'MEL' city folk have been dealt with?

Or, alternatively, just shoot all of the collingwood supporters - would be a good start........??Devil

[Buster Hyman]

Problem was, the bubble they were in are called Nursing Homes, and it didn't work.

[Slezy9]

Problem was, the bubble they were in are called Nursing Homes, and it didn't work.

Because of the casualisation of the workforce, very few people have sick leave, so they go to work sick.

[Xeptu]

It should'nt come as any surprise it was an epic fail given it was left to pollies and department heads to manage it. I remember when scomo announced we are prepared. The girls retorted straight away "no we're not, we haven't even started to prepare". Since then largely as an unaffected state much prep has been made, there are still some weaknesses around PPE, decontamination and disposal procedure, which obviously Vic hasn't got right yet either. Changes are being made almost on a daily basis as we learn from VIC
There's not too many (medical staff) putting their hands up to go help VIC for fear of infection. For you turnleft, dying is well down their concern list..

[Turnleft080]

Maybe Dan should just take a look at this
and have a little bit of a faith. On sky 4 days ago.

https://youtu.be/93jI7Gl3yic

[Pearly White]

He's pretty brave if it's true he vaccinated his own daughter with it.
He'd be more brave if he vaccinated HIMSELF with it.

[Turnleft080]

It should'nt come as any surprise it was an epic fail given it was left to pollies and department heads to manage it. I remember when scomo announced we are prepared. The girls retorted straight away "no we're not, we haven't even started to prepare". Since then largely as an unaffected state much prep has been made, there are still some weaknesses around PPE, decontamination and disposal procedure, which obviously Vic hasn't got right yet either. Changes are being made almost on a daily basis as we learn from VIC
There's not too many (medical staff) putting their hands up to go help VIC for fear of infection. For you turnleft, dying is well down their concern list..
I pretty much agree though at some stage the way we are going it's unsustainable. Dying is not on anyone's list.
The clip above can get us back working tomorrow. The Prof thinks he can kill the virus in 6 to 8 days with a drug that's been around since 1975.

[Stickshift3000]

Maybe Dan should just take a look at this
and have a little bit of a faith. On sky 4 days ago.
https://youtu.be/93jI7Gl3yic

"You will hit safety problems far sooner than you will hit efficacy.”

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-australia-sydney-doctor-claims-cheap-head-lice-drug-could-cure-covid19-and-should-be-used-now/news-story/24b930fcec5e4ef33127b13d4356b0aa

Doesn't seem too promising to me.

[Xeptu]

He admits he's not a virologist, why would you ask a naturopath for advice while you're having a heart attack.

[Icarus2001]

Dying is not on anyone's list. On the contrary, it is on everyone's list.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Tick - Tick - Tick - Tick........................

[highflyer40]

And then one person shows symptoms on day 10 and is positive so everyone in the bubble is a close contact. Then they ALL start their 2 weeks again. Rinse and repeat. You'll be in there for a lot longer than 2 weeks on average, and end up with a lot more people infected. And who pays for that.

On the pro side, EK require negative PCR test for all pax before boarding - to be shown at checkin - so there are fewer positive cases travelling.

The downside for EK is hardly anyone will fly with them. It’s a ball ache of a process to go through.

[Xeptu]

I pretty much agree though at some stage the way we are going it's unsustainable.

Well if it can't be eradicated and we are all ready to give up, we can adopt north koreas approach, one active case, bang, no active cases, one active case , bang, no active cases. Although in the civilised world we could do it more humanely rather than just shooting them in the face :)

[kingRB]

I would still shoot you in the face.

we could do it more humanely rather than just shooting them in the face :)

Dude are you a licensed firearms owner? I really hope you aren't. You seem to have a disturbing fascination there.

[Xeptu]

eveyone in the regions are firearms owners, but unlike you guys in the city we are responsible with our guns, we keep them locked up in a gun safe and don't go around shooting people like you guys in the city

[kingRB]

Yeah, you just post about shooting people on forums :rolleyes: Maybe you need to check that "fit and proper person" requirement then.

[Xeptu]

well It's predicated on the collapse of civilisation as we know it, if you came onto our property desperate needing help and willing to follow instructions, we would help you of course, but if you came in like you own the place helping yourself to whatever you want, we would shoot you in the face. seems perfectly reasonable for a fit and proper person wouldn't you agree.

P.S If it's the misses aiming at you, your safer if you keep still, she couldn't hit the barn door at 20 paces

[kingRB]

not particularly - if you are a licensed owner, (which you didn't actually answer) - posting crap like that never helps anyone in the licensed firearm community. If you honestly believe us "guys in the city" don't have firearms legally and responsibly secured and "go around shooting people" you have a very warped sense of reality.
To the point you sound like you're the last one that should have firearms around them.

[Xeptu]

yes yes, lots of guns, but I need them, why do you have a firearm living in the city. If you really want to go down this path, what types and calibre do you own and for what purpose

[Turnleft080]

eveyone in the regions are firearms owners, but unlike you guys in the city we are responsible with our guns, we keep them locked up in a gun safe and don't go around shooting people like you guys in the city


"Are you talking to me punk. Well are you."
In Chicago, 2,249 people have been shot this year. That is 695 more than 2019.Data through Wednesday, July 29 2020

The Chicago Tribune crime team tracks shooting victims in Chicago.

[Stickshift3000]

I live in the city, have a firearms licence, along with firearms. The rest is my business only.

[Xeptu]

Surely not turnleft, can this possibly be something else we agree on :)

[Turnleft080]

Surely not turnleft, can this possibly be something else we agree on :)

Sorry Xeptu I fluffed my lines, I'm sure this guy can do it better. Good night mate.

https://youtu.be/8Xjr2hnOHiM

[dr dre]

Maybe Dan should just take a look at this
and have a little bit of a faith. On sky 4 days ago.

https://youtu.be/93jI7Gl3yic

The guy is a gastroenterologist, not a professional in infectious viral respiratory diseases nor is there any evidence he has personally treated any number of COVID patients. This treatment only killed SARS-COV-2 in a petri dish in a lab at a dosage level too high for to human consumption. (https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/insufficient-evidence-to-currently-support-ivermec) No proper clinic trials have been conducted (bar from a poor quality study conducted in Bangladesh of all places) and actual infectious diseases clinicians and researchers in this country have stated in that article that there’s no evidence the treatment at a dosage level safe for humans would be effective. So essentially he’s a quack (in this regard) selling unproven snake oil just like all the Hydroxychloroquine quacks.

And have a think why he went on one of the most ridiculous programs on TV, Sky News’s Outsiders, to sprout this rubbish. This untested snake oil treatment is only being pushed by the usual media loons like Rowan Dean and Miranda Devine. But of course it’s all just a secret conspiracy by the pro-vaccine lobby or Marxists hell bent on destroying our economy or whatever nonsense these garbage peddlers decide to sprout today......

[Guitar Joe]

Respectfully Dr Dre, there’s an awful lot of ad hominem, appeals to authority and straw man in your argument.
You may well end up being correct that Ivermectin in conjunction with zinc and an antibiotic, as stated by Dr Borody, proves to not be effective. Time will tell. I personally think that any potential treatment should be vigorously pursued until it proves to be ineffective. After all, I am continually told this is about “saving lives”.

I pose these questions for the casual reader in response to Dr Dre’s post above:

Is Dr Borody only able to discover treatment protocols in gastroenterology? Are treatment protocols in Respiratory diseases rendered useless if found or administered by doctors from another specialty?
Don’t all treatment protocols begin life by demonstrating efficacy in a petrie dish?
Is the efficacy of a drug determined by which news or opinion outlet gives it airtime? Would the drug work if The Project or CNN interviewed Dr Borody?

[blubak]

Because of the casualisation of the workforce, very few people have sick leave, so they go to work sick.
100% spot on,drive down wages,drive down conditions,gets the votes from all in the community who listen to the union bashing companies & governments.
They like the glory but avoid the questions later.

[kingRB]

The guy is a gastroenterologist, not a professional in infectious viral respiratory diseases nor is there any evidence he has personally treated any number of COVID patients. This treatment only killed SARS-COV-2 in a petri dish in a lab at a dosage level too high for to human consumption. (https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/insufficient-evidence-to-currently-support-ivermec) No proper clinic trials have been conducted (bar from a poor quality study conducted in Bangladesh of all places) and actual infectious diseases clinicians and researchers in this country have stated in that article that there’s no evidence the treatment at a dosage level safe for humans would be effective. So essentially he’s a quack (in this regard) selling unproven snake oil just like all the Hydroxychloroquine quacks.

And have a think why he went on one of the most ridiculous programs on TV, Sky News’s Outsiders, to sprout this rubbish. This untested snake oil treatment is only being pushed by the usual media loons like Rowan Dean and Miranda Devine. But of course it’s all just a secret conspiracy by the pro-vaccine lobby or Marxists hell bent on destroying our economy or whatever nonsense these garbage peddlers decide to sprout today......

you obviously didn't bother watching the interview because that's not what he said at all. You're conflating the Ivermectin study(s) against his claimed actual treatment of people. He's said the dosage level can be reduced and remain effective by mixing it with Zinc and another antibiotic. Calling him a quack is disingenuous and once again you're playing at character assassinations instead of addressing the facts being put forward. He's a professor with proven credentials and treatments, apparently quite famous for revolutionary treatment of stomach ulcers. The bloke obviously has some idea what he's talking about. If his claims have any basis, given they are on EXISTING therapies why the hell wouldn't we give it the benefit of the doubt and research them further? If he's wrong then so be it. But you're saying since the interview was done on Sky News with Rowan Dean so it all must be some far right loonacy so we should ignore this guy and a potential treatment for something currently having catastrophic impact on the world? Try detaching from your partisan view on the world once every now and again.

[novice110]

The rate of casualisation of the workforce in Australia has been steady for about 20 years, around 25%.

Without these employment opportunities, the unemployment rate would be higher.

I agree though, this minority will have to go to work sick at times just to put food on the table. Be it flu or Covid.

[Bend alot]

The rate of casualisation of the workforce in Australia has been steady for about 20 years, around 25%.

Without these employment opportunities, the unemployment rate would be higher.

I agree though, this minority will have to go to work sick at times just to put food on the table. Be it flu or Covid.
It all depends on how you compile stats to get statistics.

For both men and women there has been a surge in permanent part-time employment in the past twenty years—more than quadrupling for men and more than doubling for women. Casual part-time employment also grew strongly for men—up by 326,000 or 96 per cent.

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp1718/CasualEmployeesAustralia#:~:text=Prevalence%20of%20casual%20 employees%20is,average%20of%2025%20per%20cent.

Labour hire is not mentioned in that report, certainly been a growth industry in aviation over the last 20 years. They should be counted as casual employment, but they are not employees.

When I look back over the last 20 odd years, most of the people were in full time employment. Casual employment was the domain mostly for children and students & part time the domain of mothers mostly. Today is a very different picture, Full time is uncommon as in an open ended contract, 2-5 year contracts are very common, contractors are very common, casual still students with a strong mix of working visa holders. Outsourcing in aviation has increased and I expect that is the same in other areas.

I expect it is only 25% because the way the numbers were counted.

[novice110]

Fair enough it might be higher than reported as you say due to the method of counting.

Part time and labour hire would have sick leave provisions though, wouldn't they ?

[ruprecht]

NSW health has two lists, one for “isolate and get tested immediately”, and one for “monitor symptoms”. I know some people working casually in aged care, if they visit ANYWHERE that has had a Covid case, they have to isolate for 14 days, and because they are casual that’s two weeks unpaid.

Say you have a household reliant on a single casual wage. What percentage of workers are going to do the right thing after they’ve lost a few weeks pay?

[Bend alot]

Fair enough it might be higher than reported as you say due to the method of counting.

Part time and labour hire would have sick leave provisions though, wouldn't they ?
Labour hire NO in most cases in aviation anyway, (Independent contractors)

This link states that the ABS changed how they count things a few years ago.

https://mckellinstitute.org.au/app/uploads/McKell-Institute-Queensland-Understanding-Insecure-Work-in-Australia-1-2.pdf

Also for interest from 1990 to 2002 the average labour hire growth per year was 15.7% (no sign of slowing), the bulk of these are/should be casual employees of the labour hire firms.

Closed boarders are a big problem for these employees - 2 weeks no pay + hotel quarantine costs + no job security.

[ZAZ]

Borders open SA/Vic NOT SA POL flying down the border as we speak MIA to MGB at 200 knots hoping to see people hotfooting into SA from COVIC-20 lol.
People in the 40 k buffer zone like Nelson now prohibited under SA Police orders!
Oddly enough Rex in and out ML MTG daily and SH101 doing some arnav at YHML after coming in from Tassie via EN yesterday?
So some pilots have flying gigs!

[Green.Dot]

Borders open SA/Vic NOT SA POL flying down the border as we speak MIA to MGB at 200 knots hoping to see people hotfooting into SA from COVIC-20 lol.
People in the 40 k buffer zone like Nelson now prohibited under SA Police orders!
Oddly enough Rex in and out ML MTG daily and SH101 doing some arnav at YHML after coming in from Tassie via EN yesterday?
So some pilots have flying gigs!

Looks like S28- BE’s writing style is rubbing off on others!

[Stickshift3000]

Looks like S28- BE’s writing style is rubbing off on others!

Thought I was reading a NOTAM for a second...

[dr dre]

Is Dr Borody only able to discover treatment protocols in gastroenterology? Are treatment protocols in Respiratory diseases rendered useless if found or administered by doctors from another specialty?
Don’t all treatment protocols begin life by demonstrating efficacy in a petrie dish?
Is the efficacy of a drug determined by which news or opinion outlet gives it airtime? Would the drug work if The Project or CNN interviewed Dr Borody?

No, and I’m not using Ad Hominems in my criticism.

At no point I’m saying a Gastroenterologist is not able to discover treatment protocols in other fields, but have a think why a Gastroenterologist is touring a cure that a Senior Biomedical Research Fellow who did the actual petri dish study has said more work needs to be done on in order to know if the safe level of Ivermectin that can be given to humans will have an effect on the virus. Or why an Infectious Disease Professor and Clinician heading up an Australian COVID trial has said he hasn’t seen any of this supposed data, and the study from Bangladesh was of poor quality. Why do two people with more knowledge of COVID treatment and research dispute this Gastroenterologist’s statements? Why does a senior Molecular Pharmacologist at Uni of Adelaide say this:

When asked about the drug’s potential in treating coronavirus, Dr Ian Musgrave, a molecular pharmacologist from the University of Adelaide, said: “Oh no, not Ivermectin.”

“No, it‘s not a cure for COVID-19,” Dr Musgrave added.

“It works in test-tube experiments, but is unlikely to work clinically as it is hard to achieve effective plasma concentrations. No clinical trials data are available yet and in the absence of any public data, claims of the high efficacy are to be taken with a grain of salt.”


What the interesting thing is is that there already is a treatment, Remdesivir, that has already been approved by the TGA as a COVID treatment. (https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/news/australia-tga-remdesivir-approval/)It has been shown in clinical trials to reduce disease length in patients with severe symptoms, although it definitely isn’t being touted as a “miracle cure”.

Makes me think those sprouting Ivermectin are doing it for political or financial reasons, like the Hydroxychloroquine pushers are.

[601]

Why do two people with more knowledge of COVID treatment and research dispute this Gastroenterologist’s statements? Why does a senior Molecular Pharmacologist at Uni of Adelaide say this:

Because some people cannot think outside the square.
usual media loons like Rowan Dean and Miranda Devine

Shooting the messenger again.

[PoppaJo]

Lock Melburnians in. Nobody in, nobody out. Unless your freight.

Let Regional Victoria become its own state essentially. Jetstar can use Avalon to service the people of Regional Vic, use the Geelong crew. Until the people of Melbourne can control themselves.

Perhaps then they might get the message.

[Arnold E]

I dont know how closed a closed border is, reading the Adelaide Advertiser on Thursday there were 12 QANTAS arrivals to Adelaide from Melbourne alone and 15 Virgin arrivals from Melbourne, there were many more arrivals from all over the place

[PoppaJo]

Arnold the media are just posting what they see on airport websites or boards, which defaults to the pre covid schedule.

Idiots on morning TV the other day having a crack at a Politician because there was 20 flights a day between ML and SY. The truth is there was 2.

[Green.Dot]

Lock Melburnians in. Nobody in, nobody out. Unless your freight.

Let Regional Victoria become its own state essentially. Jetstar can use Avalon to service the people of Regional Vic, use the Geelong crew. Until the people of Melbourne can control themselves.

Perhaps then they might get the message.

Poppa, I can almost guarantee if The Hotel Quarantine debacle (which has been proven to be the primary cause of the second wave) happened in a state where the weather is much better at this time of year (Queensland comes to mind) would have resulted in even less adherence to the lockdown rules and an even bigger outbreak.

But that’s ok, you continue to blame the Melburnians, you and Dan will get along real well.

99% of us are doing the right thing and really love wearing masks everywhere and going in for a COVID test every time we get a cough.

I can only assume you have got lucky and live in a state with a slightly more competent Government with lower COVID numbers (for now)?

[Xeptu]

99% of us are doing the right thing and really love wearing masks everywhere and going in for a COVID test every time we get a cough

Entirely agree with everything you wrote in that post green.dot, our state would have been no different. One thing though, we don't intend to allow stay at home quarantine because of what we are hearing in the media that 1 in 4 infected stay at home quarantines are not home when checked. If that's true then you need to sort that.

[Stickshift3000]

99% of us are doing the right thing and really love wearing masks everywhere and going in for a COVID test every time we get a cough.

Absolutely.

Of the roughly 3000 active cases in Vic, 2000 or so are related to the aged care sector.

That leaves 1000 or so cases spread via other means, in a state with a population of 6.3 million. Pretty low rate of illness!

[Xeptu]

Your first concern should be how and why so many medical staff, clearly there is something wrong with PPE and or decontamination and disposal procedures. That's why ours don't want to come over and help. I hope you're not suggesting by "pretty low rate of illness" (for now) it's no big deal.

[Bend alot]

Do boarders closures work?

If we take the recovered cases and the death cases in each state we get the following death rates.

Vic 3.6%
NSW 1.7%
WA 1.4%
SA 0.87%
QLD 0.5%

If Vic proceeds at this rate of 3.6% of the remaining cases we can expect another around 300 deaths in coming days.

[PoppaJo]

Absolutely.

Of the roughly 3000 active cases in Vic, 2000 or so are related to the aged care sector.

That leaves 1000 or so cases spread via other means, in a state with a population of 6.3 million. Pretty low rate of illness!

8000 active cases.

Poppa, I can almost guarantee if The Hotel Quarantine debacle (which has been proven to be the primary cause of the second wave) happened in a state where the weather is much better at this time of year (Queensland comes to mind) would have resulted in even less adherence to the lockdown rules and an even bigger outbreak.
I wish. Go live in places like Wyndham or Melton. Demographic, Mass Housing, Dirty Bogans, Nobody gives two ****s.

Wyndam and Melton cases are trending up.

Half the wankers I’ve kicked off over the years are from Melton or Hoppers. Absolute rot of the earth destroying it for everyone else.

[Buttscratcher]

https://youtu.be/aCbfMkh940Q

[Stickshift3000]

8000 active cases.

Apologies, you are correct. I misread the numbers.

[Derfred]

UNSW Adjunct Professor Bill Bowtell, one of Australia's leading public health strategists [...] strongly advocates the kinds of measures seen in New Zealand and thinks Australia should follow their goal of eliminating community transmission."There seemed to be decisions made by the Federal and Victorian governments that they would not learn from and adopt what was going on next door in New Zealand and even closer to home in Queensland and Western Australia," he said.

"I don't think the strategies adopted by those two governments have worked out very well.

"We would have been much better off to have adopted the New Zealand approach in the first place."

In June, NSW, which had been the worst-affected state in Australia before Victoria's second wave, had three weeks without community transmission, and Mr Bowtell said that was a good target to aim for.

That could again be achieved by shifting to stricter lockdowns, like in New Zealand.

"It's like extinguishing the embers of a bushfire. It's better than waiting until the flames are 10 metres high," Mr Bowtell said.

"It is better than dealing with hundreds of new cases a day."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-16/which-countries-have-zero-cases-of-coronavirus-how/12555562

[morno]

FFS it’s BORDERS, not BOARDERS :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[lc_461]

I'm beginning to think these epidemiologists, however esteemed, are becoming unhelpful by making a running commentary. Its easy to criticise initial strategies in hindsight. Many of these scientists now appear to be relishing their time in the limelight...
But the constant differing opinions being sprouted daily just add to people's angst and spread confusion in the community.
One scientist advocating for a full lockdown for example may not demonstrate the scientific consensus. BUT that loudest voice has made it to national TV... next minute political pressure... a positive feedback loop driven by hysteria and getting further away from peer reviewed scientific consensus.

I'm not saying i'm against lockdown etc, just that IMO things in the community would be better if the media stopped giving these guys air time and instead the scientists provided their valuable insight direct to the government.

[ruprecht]

How many epidemiologists are on jobkeeper?

[Whispering T-Jet]

How about this for a contrary view: Sweden's Success (https://jordanschachtel.substack.com/p/swedens-success-is-kryptonite-for) before the lockdowners quote the early deaths in Sweden, they admit they stuffed up on aged care. Look at Sweden's current data for this week - nothing is closed and they have way less deaths than Vic. because they now have herd immunity. The death rates per million this week in the UK and Sweden are lower than Australia.
Meanwhile in NZ and Vic. everyone who just started to get their jobs back has been slammed again. Are we going to shut down for six weeks every three months indefinitely?

People who advocate hard lockdowns are inevitably on the public payroll have suffered nothing - Vic. Public Servants just got a pay rise to rub your noses in it. Vic PS Payrise July 2020 (https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/victorian-public-servants-win-pay-rise-20200721-p55e4z.html)

[Bend alot]

How about this for a contrary view: Sweden's Success (https://jordanschachtel.substack.com/p/swedens-success-is-kryptonite-for) before the lockdowners quote the early deaths in Sweden, they admit they stuffed up on aged care. Look at Sweden's current data for this week - nothing is closed and they have way less deaths than Vic. because they now have herd immunity. The death rates per million this week in the UK and Sweden are lower than Australia.
Meanwhile in NZ and Vic. everyone who just started to get their jobs back has been slammed again. Are we going to shut down for six weeks every three months indefinitely?

People who advocate hard lockdowns are inevitably on the public payroll have suffered nothing - Vic. Public Servants just got a pay rise to rub your noses in it. Vic PS Payrise July 2020 (https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/victorian-public-servants-win-pay-rise-20200721-p55e4z.html)
There are a number of reports on Sweden's approach to Covid-19 not many make the bold claim as the above author that it is clear it is a success.

Many/most say it is still far to early to know yet, but currently from a medical point of view Sweden is a failure of comparable neighbouring countries. Of the comparable countries the economic comparison can not be made as the data is not yet available to compare, they say comparing Sweden economy with the EU is disproportionate as tourism is not a large part of the economy unlike Italy and others.

Other points made are August is pretty much a shut down month in Sweden, it takes 70% for heard immunity (Sweden may have 20%), and the myth Sweden did not shut down anything or have much in the way of restrictions. Sweden did have restrictions, mask recommendations, travel restrictions and restaurants and bars close or reduce hours BUT mostly as recommendations (that they mostly followed).

I am not sure your advocate claim is correct.

[rcoight]

Makes me think those sprouting Ivermectin are doing it for political or financial reasons, like the Hydroxychloroquine pushers are.

You are completely wrong about Hydroxychloroquine.
Countries that allow and encourage its use (in the correct combination with other drugs and in the correct dose) have a far lower case fatality rate than countries that have banned or discouraged its use. That’s a fact.

It’s ironic - and obvious - that it’s your political views that so clearly drive your opinions.

[currawong]

How about this for a contrary view: Sweden's Success (https://jordanschachtel.substack.com/p/swedens-success-is-kryptonite-for) before the lockdowners quote the early deaths in Sweden, they admit they stuffed up on aged care. Look at Sweden's current data for this week - nothing is closed and they have way less deaths than Vic. because they now have herd immunity. The death rates per million this week in the UK and Sweden are lower than Australia.
Meanwhile in NZ and Vic. everyone who just started to get their jobs back has been slammed again. Are we going to shut down for six weeks every three months indefinitely?

People who advocate hard lockdowns are inevitably on the public payroll have suffered nothing - Vic. Public Servants just got a pay rise to rub your noses in it. Vic PS Payrise July 2020 (https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/victorian-public-servants-win-pay-rise-20200721-p55e4z.html)

What is called "Herd Immunity" is currently more likely due to increased awareness of infection control.

"Numerous diseases have been eliminated in many countries thanks to herd immunity produced by vaccination programmes. But herd immunity is not something that can be achieved by natural infection."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-15/coronavirus-herd-immunity-unlikely-without-vaccine/12559298

[Stickshift3000]

UNSW Adjunct Professor Bill Bowtell, one of Australia's leading public health strategists [...] strongly advocates the kinds of measures seen in New Zealand and thinks Australia should follow their goal of eliminating community transmission.

A public health 'strategist' would say that - their strategy is to protect public health.

An economist would probably have the opposite opinion.

I'm not particularly vested in one approach over the other; there are conflicting opinions depending on what the short term and longer term goals are. Australia is doing pretty well (on the whole) compared to many other countries.

[Turnleft080]

How about this for a contrary view: Sweden's Success (https://jordanschachtel.substack.com/p/swedens-success-is-kryptonite-for) before the lockdowners quote the early deaths in Sweden, they admit they stuffed up on aged care. Look at Sweden's current data for this week - nothing is closed and they have way less deaths than Vic. because they now have herd immunity. The death rates per million this week in the UK and Sweden are lower than Australia.
Meanwhile in NZ and Vic. everyone who just started to get their jobs back has been slammed again. Are we going to shut down for six weeks every three months indefinitely?

People who advocate hard lockdowns are inevitably on the public payroll have suffered nothing - Vic. Public Servants just got a pay rise to rub your noses in it. Vic PS Payrise July 2020 (https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/victorian-public-servants-win-pay-rise-20200721-p55e4z.html)
Mr Whispering T-jet. Let me make it clear, when it comes to press conferences in the press gallery you are not to ask questions on other countries/states successes.
In fact you really are not to ask questions, in case you put myself or any other minister for that matter on the spot. Let me make it perfectly clear, the model we are working on is coming on nicely.
Now really really, I want to make it very very clear and reassure all Victorians the model has 4 weeks to go and then the model will be disclosed. However, I cannot disclose the model now
due to that fact the model has not been tested before. I realise a lot of people are under severe stress and pressure though that is what the modelling is all about. I couldn't make it any clearer than that.
For clarity sake let the model do it's thing and we will be over this. I know I'm repeating myself, though the jingle "we are all in this together" is the clearest message of all.
As to rubbing our noses into pay rises well that was clear went you elected me. Are we all clear on that. Righto then, I'm off and going home to work on my model.

[dr dre]

You are completely wrong about Hydroxychloroquine.
Countries that allow and encourage its use (in the correct combination with other drugs and in the correct dose) have a far lower case fatality rate than countries that have banned or discouraged its use. That’s a fact.

Great news, got a link from a reputable source to back up your “fact”?

Here’s the National Prescribing Service (https://www.nps.org.au/hcq-and-covid-19) strongly advising against using HCQ.
Here’s the results of a scientific study (https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-why-hydroxychloroquine-doesn-t-block-the-coronavirus-in-human-lung-cells) showing HCQ has no useful effect on the virus.
Here’s a study showing patients treated with HCQ (https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/hydroxychloroquine-study-covid-19-data/) didn’t have better outcomes.

I couldn’t find any reputable study showing data regarding your claim above. Although some studies may have shown hope 4/5 months ago it seems all decent medical authorities including Australia are now advising against its use. I know a lot of people are desperate to find a miracle cure (the best we have at the moment is the somewhat effective and medically approved Remdesivir) but that doesn’t mean latching on to snake oil pushed by quacks makes it work.

[rcoight]

Well, you wouldn’t find anything, would you, if your only sources of information are the ABC etc?

i don’t care about the politics. Facts are facts.

I do also find it hilarious that you tout Remdesivir, as though those who champion it aren’t massively compromised. Do some proper research, FFS.

If these graphs and statements are wrong, please let me know how.

And, I’m afraid, “because they are on Sky News” isn’t a valid reason.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/a7ea782f_e0fa_4d81_8ce8_b652b0cbcd80_1b1341f8443de24096391f0 c7eff3f3a15c207d8.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/0f3e1a0c_0b15_4d73_b1a3_36271897aecd_080ce75bf8487d378b6216f bad6ca568c19df8a3.jpeg

[Slezy9]

Well, you wouldn’t find anything, would you, if your only sources of information are the ABC etc?

i don’t care about the politics. Facts are facts.

I do also find it hilarious that you tout Remdesivir, as though those who champion it aren’t massively compromised. Do some proper research, FFS.

If these graphs and statements are wrong, please let me know how.

And, I’m afraid, “because they are on Sky News” isn’t a valid reason.

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Did you even read dr dre’s links? The ABC wasn’t one of them... and your rebuttal is a couple of photos of your tv?!? Haha.

[dr dre]

Well, you wouldn’t find anything, would you, if your only sources of information are the ABC etc?
i don’t care about the politics. Facts are facts.
I do also find it hilarious that you tout Remdesivir, as though those who champion it aren’t massively compromised. Do some proper research, FFS.
If these graphs and statements are wrong, please let me know how.
And, I’m afraid, “because they are on Sky News” isn’t a valid reason.


The first graph of deaths per million conveniently leaves out several countries with low CFR on the second graph that would place them high on the deaths per million count (like Chile at 546)

All the actual CFR's of the nations in red have been grossly overestimated, France for instance has an estimated actual CFR of 0.5% (https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6500/208), which would put it below all the pro-HCQ nations. Most of the other European nations would be down there as well. In any case real scientists will only calculate actual CFR after the pandemic is over. (https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m1113)

Saying those nations with low CFRs "allowed or encouraged" HCQ use is also incorrect. HCQ trials in Israel were stopped (https://www.universalhub.com/2020/study-presidents-nostrum-beth-israel-confirms) after researchers found high heart disease risks in patients. Clinical trials in South Korea (http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200617000332) were stopped as well. There's no evidence people in those "low CFR" nations actually took HCQ in widespread doses.

Countries that have a very low CFR (like this one, NZ, Singapore) that have never had widespread HCQ use are not included on the second graph. Malaysia, included on the first graph as a "HCQ success story", has stated HCQ had zero effect on their cases (https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2020/06/602538/dr-noor-hisham-malaysia-drops-use-hydroxychloroquine-covid-19).

There's so much cherry picking going on in those graphs backpackers will be out of work on farms for a decade.

From an aviation perspective if we want to get the industry back and thriving best we listen to actual experts who know what they're talking about and use peer reviewed data when crafting their advice, rather than quacks pushed by former Ad Men and Gossip Columnists on Sky News's Outsiders.

[Green.Dot]

The hurt is going to continue for a while yet....

QLD Premier says their borders will not open until NO community transmissions in NSW and Victoria.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-17/queensland-borders-to-stay-shut-coronavirus-nsw-victoria/12564532

[DanV2]

The hurt is going to continue for a while yet....

QLD Premier says their borders will not open until NO community transmissions in NSW and Victoria.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-17/queensland-borders-to-stay-shut-coronavirus-nsw-victoria/12564532

Looks like a WA-lite version of the border closure (SA/NT/TAS till open). I wonder if there will be people that would take quarantine via SA/NT before entering Qld.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Don't be tooo hard on him Mr Morno.....he does say he lives in a tent........

Cheeerrrsss....

[DirectAnywhere]

The hurt is going to continue for a while yet....

QLD Premier says their borders will not open until NO community transmissions in NSW and Victoria.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-17/queensland-borders-to-stay-shut-coronavirus-nsw-victoria/12564532

You might almost think there was an election in the offing. :hmm: Wait until after the election when Jobkeeper comes to an end, thermal coal prices fall a bit further and Chinese beef sanctions start to bite. Her priorities may change a little then.



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[Xeptu]

You might almost think there was an election in the offing. :hmm: Wait until after the election when Jobkeeper comes to an end, thermal coal prices fall a bit further and Chinese beef sanctions start to bite. Her priorities may change a little then.

So she loses an election to the opposition who has the exact same problem. Opening borders isn't going to change it.
All time highest National debt, household debt and personal debt, with an unprecedented burn rate. Buy now pay later, Super withdrawals, add to that a 14% plus unemployment rate. When it all comes to an end, it's unimaginable as to how deep and how long. Whether a state border is open or not is only a little issue.
It would be more expensive if people went to QLD and remained there.

[Ragnor]

Federal Government really needs to step in here beginning with cutting jobkeeper and have the states fund it themself, having these rogue premiers making rules up as they go demanding the unachievable to open borders is crazy talk. I hope they dont all sit around and high five each other in 5 yrs when we are in a depression Virgin, QANTAS are just a memory and many other company’s are no longer, but, hey saved a few elderly.

We need to learn to live with it that’s all there is to it.

[Turnleft080]

Federal Government really needs to step in here beginning with cutting jobkeeper and have the states fund it themself, having these rogue premiers making rules up as they go demanding the unachievable to open borders is crazy talk. I hope they dont all sit around and high five each other in 5 yrs when we are in a depression Virgin, QANTAS are just a memory and many other company’s are no longer, but, hey saved a few elderly.

We need to learn to live with it that’s all there is to it.
I've been advocating this for ages. Here is an example of learning to live with it. Just to recall, I wrote this last week. However, Dan is only entrenched in Plan A.
Well here is my plan B. Lockdown all age care and all 70 years old above. Lockdown those under 70 with health conditions.
All healthy under 70 back to work. Everyone keeps their mask on every one has a sanitiser bottle and social distance etc. so transmission is very small.
Everyone needs to boost their immune system markedly as I have portrayed before, to have minimal effects for any illness for that matter. Get rid of those chemical stresses.
What the government doesn't tell you is the percentage rates from not dying from this. What ever graph you prefer it will show 98% above 70s of surviving and 99.6% for healthy
people of surviving covid. That 2% and 0.4% is what is emphasised every press conference.

Or get all those so called Dr Quacks that are suppressed by all organisations to exercise some leverage to demonstrate they can reduce symptoms.

[Green.Dot]

Federal Government really needs to step in here beginning with cutting jobkeeper and have the states fund it themself, having these rogue premiers making rules up as they go...

We need to learn to live with it that’s all there is to it.

100% Ragnor, well said. With the exception of Victoria (maybe NSW?) there is no reason that every other state and territory shouldn’t have free borders between them with the contact tracing in place. This is becoming madness.

[Xeptu]

We need to learn to live with it that’s all there is to it.

And that's exactly what we are doing. Close all borders, prevent community transmission, maintain robust testing regimes. quarantine the infected. enforce procedures.
Those that are not doing so well, lift your game, you're letting the team down. Well done everyone else.

[brokenagain]

Bang on Ragnor. We’re being held hostage by state premiers who lets face it, biggest concern is being re-elected.

[Green.Dot]

Those that are not doing so well, lift your game, you're letting the team down.

I guess you are talking about Dan again?

[Xeptu]

I guess you are talking about Dan again?

Not at all, nothing to do with Dan, if fact I don't recall ever mentioning Dan.

My advice to the 17% minority that believe the borders should be open is be careful where you express those opinions, my guess is you haven't lost anyone or even know anyone who has been infected, expressing those views openly could reach the ears of someone who has and still overly emotional, enough to take matters into their own hands. That would be equally inappropriate.

[Ragnor]

Lock the elderly up no visitors strict rules for the staff- after all if we are all out of a job who will pay the nurses wage or how will the gov fund any aged care facilities. Everyone wants that little bit of a handout from the Gov but no one seems to want to sacrifice or change their way of life, wear a mask hygiene and lets move on.

I have lost family members to illness other than Covid, influenza being one, we didn't shut up shop for that and not that I would expect the country to either. I cant wait for NT come forward for a Gov hand out they must be struggling big time with out the tourist dollar.

Anyway I will happily admit, I am choosing economy now over health because without economy there is no healthcare.

[blubak]

And that's exactly what we are doing. Close all borders, prevent community transmission, maintain robust testing regimes. quarantine the infected. enforce procedures.
Those that are not doing so well, lift your game, you're letting the team down. Well done everyone else.
What has this outstanding premier of yours done for the families of the 14000 people who died of dementia in australia last year.
aYes,u know the answer,nothing!!
All she knows how to do is try & make herself look good & bleat on about qld this,qld that blah blah blah.
THE BANKRUPT STATE is what should be on the number plates.

[Xeptu]

You are missing the point. We are a democracy and we do what the greater majority want, particularly if it's a two third majority, it doesn't matter what the issue is.
You are entitled to an opinion and democracy encourages that, what you're not entitled to do is act on that opinion, that's why we have so many rules and penalties.
The majority says the economy is not our first priority at this point in time. We'll let you know when it is.

[Green.Dot]

The majority says the economy is not our first priority at this point in time. We'll let you know when it is.

Xeptu, since you obviously have inside information can you please ask the leaders of the highlighted states/territories why they insist on playing silly buggers with each other with such low ACTIVE case numbers?

I guess NZ will cut off the North Island from South soon based on their numbers?


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[layman]

Perhaps because active cases can grow rather rapidly:
https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-active-cases/vic
Active Cases in Victoira
1 May: 53
1 June: 71
1 July: 370
1 Aug: 5,919
17 Aug: 7,474

[Ragnor]

QUOTE=Xeptu;10863079]
The majority says the economy is not our first priority at this point in time. We'll let you know when it is.[/QUOTE]

Can you substantiate what the majority “says” you may/may not(mean) say or ‘said’ cant wait to see your data

[Turnleft080]

As Prime Minister of the best country in the world I will not allow, schemers, vicious poisonous snakes, urinators of the back lanes
operate state governments with the audacity of bringing the economy to it's knees. To all premiers of this once noble country
I will strike you down like a bolt of lightning from a cumulonimbus cloud if you commit treason of the highest order. Holding your
own state to ransom is playing the most stupidest political football. If all states do not open up there borders with immediate effect
I have no option here forth with to surrender all GST dividends.

[Green.Dot]

#TL0804PM.

[vne165]

"I have no option here forth with to surrender all GST dividends."

Turnleft, if only it were so.

[Xeptu]

Can you substantiate what the majority “says” you may/may not(mean) say or ‘said’ cant wait to see your data

No because I don't need to, that's your job if you have a problem with what the majority says, may/may not mean.

[Xeptu]

As Prime Minister of the best country in the world I will not allow, schemers, vicious poisonous snakes, urinators of the back lanes
operate state governments with the audacity of bringing the economy to it's knees. To all premiers of this once noble country
I will strike you down like a bolt of lightning from a cumulonimbus cloud if you commit treason of the highest order. Holding your
own state to ransom is playing the most stupidest political football. If all states do not open up there borders with immediate effect
I have no option here forth with to surrender all GST dividends.

No problem Mr. Prime Minister, so we just stop paying the said GST payments in the first place.

[Turnleft080]

No problem Mr. Prime Minister, so we just stop paying the said GST payments in the first place.

Ah ha, Mr Xeptu my favourite politician of the state variety. May I offer you a beer, we have vicious poisonous snake venom, freshly squeezed
uric acid from the bladder, or we can go for the best flavour of the month Covid on tap. My shout "2 Covids on tap thanks". Now this beer is
amazing it will give instant herd immunity, provide no more social distancing, and you can throw kero on all your masks and burn them.
As we speak every pub in country will have it by tonight. Oh! Guess what? It means you have no choice but to open the border. Now what was that
about GST?

[Xeptu]

Ah ha, Mr Xeptu my favourite politician of the state variety. May I offer you a beer, we have vicious poisonous snake venom, freshly squeezed
uric acid from the bladder, or we can go for the best flavour of the month Covid on tap. My shout "2 Covids on tap thanks". Now this beer is
amazing it will give instant herd immunity, provide no more social distancing, and you can throw kero on all your masks and burn them.
As we speak every pub in country will have it by tonight. Oh! Guess what? It means you have no choice but to open the border. Now what was that
about GST?

We would call that a vaccine beer and we would be delighted to re-open our borders and host the footy grand final
P.S we still don't want to collect GST for you, we would rather ditch that, annex ourselves from the commonwealth and re-instate retail tax.

[Bend alot]

Protect the elderly and the "sick"

All persons that have been doing that for the last many years are on about minimum wage or independent contracting on less than the minimum wage.

All with all of your approval - those in Victoria, that is like your guards for quarantine and you have all been happy with elderly cost and security costs for years (so you get a better road or garbage collection).

So now they have an important role - what should they be paid?

Yeess most these employees do not even get sick leave.

[Xeptu]

well we now have plenty of pilots and flight attendants to fill these very important roles

[Bend alot]

well we now have plenty of pilots and flight attendants to fill these very important roles
Showering old folk is one thing, but many have several clients a day 3-5 a day across many suburbs in their own homes or units - how on Earth do we protect them?

Both of them old/sick and the staff that do this work.

These people are not confined (nor is there the room or staff) to nursing homes or medical centres - they also mostly live in our neighbourhoods.

P.S many are self supported retirees to live where they currently live without any or much pension, after many years of hard work to get this country where it is - they deserve a bit of respect.

[highflyer40]

I've been advocating this for ages. Here is an example of learning to live with it. Just to recall, I wrote this last week. However, Dan is only entrenched in Plan A.
Well here is my plan B. Lockdown all age care and all 70 years old above. Lockdown those under 70 with health conditions.
All healthy under 70 back to work. Everyone keeps their mask on every one has a sanitiser bottle and social distance etc. so transmission is very small.
Everyone needs to boost their immune system markedly as I have portrayed before, to have minimal effects for any illness for that matter. Get rid of those chemical stresses.
What the government doesn't tell you is the percentage rates from not dying from this. What ever graph you prefer it will show 98% above 70s of surviving and 99.6% for healthy
people of surviving covid. That 2% and 0.4% is what is emphasised every press conference.

Or get all those so called Dr Quacks that are suppressed by all organisations to exercise some leverage to demonstrate they can reduce symptoms.

The underlined quote is the biggest problem with your proposal. With social distancing there are so many companies, shops, industries that just can’t Make it work economically.

Social distancing also happens to be the last thing that will be removed when we come out the other side.

Our whole economy is built on packing people in not distancing themselves.

[Xeptu]

Aaaah! the space, it's deafening

[Turnleft080]

The underlined quote is the biggest problem with your proposal. With social distancing there are so many companies, shops, industries that just can’t Make it work economically.

Social distancing also happens to be the last thing that will be removed when we come out the other side.

Our whole economy is built on packing people in not distancing themselves.
Only threw social distancing in the sentence just to be politically correct. I can take it out if you wish. What diff does it make. A sneeze can travel 4-8m depending
on wind velocity. Only complying with the WHO gazette. Of course they know nothing about pandemics as we discovered from Dec to Feb. A mask and satanise would do the trick though.
Then all businesses can get cracking.
It's like going to the doctor to get your blood pressure check. Your blood pressure is high only because your stressed visiting a doctor. Here is some meds to lower your BP.
Or don't bother taking my BP because it's self regulating. It fixes itself. It will increase decrease if I'm in a stressed state or not. It's superfluous. Social distancing superfluous if your wearing a face mask.
I think I said way back in March/April if people build up there immune system, symptoms would be minor. Make it as bullet proof as you can.
I also said you shouldn't be scared of the virus, what is scary is how governments react to it. A total revelation back then. Not any more.

[Green.Dot]

Perhaps because active cases can grow rather rapidly:
https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-active-cases/vic
Active Cases in Victoira
1 May: 53
1 June: 71
1 July: 370
1 Aug: 5,919
17 Aug: 7,474

If other states like WA were genuinely concerned about their low number of COVID cases exploding they would have permanently isolated their ever-so-vulnerable mining areas and workers from Perth itself.

At this present time there is no good reason why WA shouldn’t be allowing restriction free travel with states like QLD/SA/NT/TAS. By all means review that on a daily basis.

If the Premiers continue to push the “safe health of their citizens” as their reasoning then they should be consistent and also stop non essential travel for INTRAstate flying. Eg PER-BME, BNE-CNS for fear of spreading it further. Oh wait- that would effect their own state economy. Silly me!

The term “Aussie Fighting Spirit” is dead.

[kiwi grey]

Lock the elderly up no visitors strict rules for the staff- after all if we are all out of a job who will pay the nurses wage or how will the gov fund any aged care facilities.
Let's put some flesh and skin on this beast

You are proposing to sentence all the elderly of Australia to indefinite confinement in their rest homes, with no chance of discharge other than in a box, and no chance of remission of sentence? Seems a little harsh as a reward for decades of faithful taxpaying and community contribution.

You are telling my Dad that he must observe (it would certainly not be celebrate) his one hundredth birthday in the company only of his wife of seventy years, without any of their four children, ten grandchildren and three great-grandchildren. That is certainly not the Australia he chose to live in after six years of war service, including combat flying in both Indian and Pacific Ocean theatres.

Shame on you

[Biggles_in_Oz]

It's like going to the doctor to get your blood pressure check. Your blood pressure is high only because your stressed visiting a doctor. Here is some meds to lower your BP.
Or don't bother taking my BP because it's self regulating. It fixes itself. It will increase decrease if I'm in a stressed state or not. It's superfluous.
Nah... I've got 40+ years of my BP history and there was a very marked improvement after I was put on a common med.

[Ragnor]

Yet WA QLD are pushing to host AFL/NRL grand finals which will attract financial gain for them but don’t let mum and dad in with the caravan to sit on the beach the inconsistency is a joke with these states.

Yes I am sorry for your dad being in an aged care but you’re willing to sentence generations to multiple life times of debt and high taxes each week this goes on we sink further into the oblivion. Lock the aged care up times arrived for tough decisions unfortunately the elderly and vulnerable need to be separated.

[ruprecht]

You are telling my Dad that he must observe (it would certainly not be celebrate) his one hundredth birthday in the company only of his wife of seventy years, without any of their four children, ten grandchildren and three great-grandchildren. That is certainly not the Australia he chose to live in after six years of war service, including combat flying in both Indian and Pacific Ocean theatres.

Shame on you

What do you think is happening now? Where I am in NSW, the only relatives allowed into a nursing home are for residents under end-of-life care.

That's it, and that will be it until we ease lockdowns. Want to bet when that will be?

[brokenagain]

with no chance of discharge other than in a box

At the risk of sounding crass, that’s 1 of 2 ways you leave a nursing home anyway. The other way is still in a box but via a stopover in hospital.

[Xeptu]

At the risk of sounding crass, that’s 1 of 2 ways you leave a nursing home anyway. The other way is still in a box but via a stopover in hospital.

It's also 1 of 2 ways you leave the Covid Ward and ICU, except that has nothing to do with old age, you only have to be there.

[ruprecht]

It's also 1 of 2 ways you leave the Covid Ward and ICU, except that has nothing to do with old age, you only have to be there.
If it has nothing to do with old age, why does every news bulletin contain the age of the Covid victims?

[Turnleft080]

Ruprecht we are on the same page I wrote this 4 days ago:


Sad as it is and unfortunate as it is, if this is not an old peoples disease, then why does he have to provide
the ages of the deaths at each press conference. If he provides the ages, then it feels like Dan is insinuating it's an old people's disease.
Or conversely is he trying to insinuate it's a young people's disease.
Just say the number. (Hope no numbers). We don't need to know the ages. We don't need to know wether its male/female.
If your going to disclose ages then disclose any underlying conditions. No, we can't do that, we must shock & awe
not go about it with common sense and practicability.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Ruprecht we are on the same page I wrote this 4 days ago:


Sad as it is and unfortunate as it is, if this is not an old peoples disease, then why does he have to provide
the ages of the deaths at each press conference. If he provides the ages, then it feels like Dan is insinuating it's an old people's disease.
Or conversely is he trying to insinuate it's a young people's disease.
Just say the number. (Hope no numbers). We don't need to know the ages. We don't need to know wether its male/female.
If your going to disclose ages then disclose any underlying conditions. No, we can't do that, we must shock & awe
not go about it with common sense and practicability.

I think he gives a breakdown of the age/genders to make people realise that these are real people that are dying, not just statistics. They cant give much more info than that for the sake of the families privacy.

[Turnleft080]

As the premier of Pineapplestan
A notice to all Cane Toads of Australia. Be advised your chain and shackles was a thing in the past. Their are no restrictions. Please continue to roam and cross
all borders of this country at your free will. Go forth and multiply as per your species regulations dictate with no social distancing and do raise your middle finger to all those
humanoids that are log jammed at the border. You own them one for all those Dunlop/Olympic tyre marks that you have tattooed on your backs.

[jrfsp]

So TAS will keep borders closed until at least 1 December, can bet on WA lasting well into 2021 then....there goes the bumper summer / xmas traffic

[Turnleft080]

I think he gives a breakdown of the age/genders to make people realise that these are real people that are dying, not just statistics. They cant give much more info than that for the sake of the families privacy.
Real people. What do the fake ones look like?
In the wash up, if we come to a royal commission at the end of all this, when your in a state of emergency or disaster some of these privacy regs need to be lifted for the greater good of better health.

[Blueskymine]

So TAS will keep borders closed until at least 1 December, can bet on WA lasting well into 2021 then....there goes the bumper summer / xmas traffic

I’d imagine just like Easter - that’s what they want. Christmas will be a time of movement and flare ups. So if they can delay until the quieter travel period post Feb, then the risks are reduced.

I don’t see WA opening up until there is a vaccine. Then a condition of entry will be vaccination.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Real people. What do the fake ones look like?
In the wash up, if we come to a royal commission at the end of all this, when your in a state of emergency or disaster some of these privacy regs need to be lifted for the greater good of better health.

Its humanising the deaths.

Are you familiar with the saying 'one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic'

[Turnleft080]

Its humanising the deaths.

Are you familiar with the saying 'one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic'
Agreed on that but I do hope autopsies are being conducted to provide more info for us and for future generations
on how this thing is killing. i.e. blood samples, lung tissue all that kind of stuff. Everyone is eager to know.

[morno]

Agreed on that but I do hope autopsies are being conducted to provide more info for us and for future generations
on how this thing is killing. i.e. blood samples, lung tissue all that kind of stuff. Everyone is eager to know.

Yes, they are. Apparently they’re full of garlic. See, your stupid idea has no merit.

On a serious note, a lung on a deceased person that has been subjected to Covid looks like it’s been boiled. Tell me that something similar wouldn’t happen in a mild case.

How about our fellow pilot in Vietnam who was otherwise in good health, then spent several months in a coma on ECMO and by a miracle has recovered. His lungs are basically screwed beyond repair and he struggles to do anything these days.

I hope you get this apparent “no fuss” disease buddy, and then you can tell us how you faired afterwards.

The idea of “boosting your immune system” is the biggest crock of **** I’ve ever read by the way.

[Turnleft080]

Yes, they are. Apparently they’re full of garlic. See, your stupid idea has no merit.

On a serious note, a lung on a deceased person that has been subjected to Covid looks like it’s been boiled. Tell me that something similar wouldn’t happen in a mild case.

How about our fellow pilot in Vietnam who was otherwise in good health, then spent several months in a coma on ECMO and by a miracle has recovered. His lungs are basically screwed beyond repair and he struggles to do anything these days.

I hope you get this apparent “no fuss” disease buddy, and then you can tell us how you faired afterwards.

The idea of “boosting your immune system” is the biggest crock of **** I’ve ever read by the way.
Well to lower it, all your got to is, consume lots of sugar, lots of salt, lots of bad fats, stay locked in, don't breath fresh air, don't bother doing
any exercise and hay presto you have a weakened immune system. Any disease will knock on your door and it's party time.
However, if you did the reverse to what I said, then the moment they knock on your door, you will be able to blow them away in the style of hasta la vista baby.
You be the terminator don't let them terminate you.

[Bend alot]

Agreed on that but I do hope autopsies are being conducted to provide more info for us and for future generations
on how this thing is killing. i.e. blood samples, lung tissue all that kind of stuff. Everyone is eager to know.
As asked above (to a degree) how do we isolate and protect ALL the elderly not in "nursing homes" and the staff that service this massive industry (not in nursing homes) and who will pay?

It is and has been a mega industry and the poor get "aged care" we have had current affairs programs about it for many years - most are trash.

MANY never attend - but they are still elderly (and many Baby boomers!!!!) yet you still require them "protected".

Can you put your proposal forward how you will "isolate" them have them "looked after" and how it is "funded" till a vaccine has been approved and available at an affordable cost.

Gray Nomads is a industry that many want a part of in every state/territory - you want to lock them up?

[highflyer40]

Yes, they are. Apparently they’re full of garlic. See, your stupid idea has no merit.

On a serious note, a lung on a deceased person that has been subjected to Covid looks like it’s been boiled. Tell me that something similar wouldn’t happen in a mild case.

How about our fellow pilot in Vietnam who was otherwise in good health, then spent several months in a coma on ECMO and by a miracle has recovered. His lungs are basically screwed beyond repair and he struggles to do anything these days.

I hope you get this apparent “no fuss” disease buddy, and then you can tell us how you faired afterwards.

The idea of “boosting your immune system” is the biggest crock of **** I’ve ever read by the way.

Agree completely. Yes those dying from the virus may be in the at risk groups and the elderly but the big unknown is how it affects the young and healthy.

There are numerous studies out there but the problem is this is so new that nothing has been able to be done in a coordinated and in depth study. Early studies are saying that 10-15% of all people tested positive are still suffering from long term damage that is getting worse once the virus has been eradicated.

Just tried to attach a link to the 2 reports but can’t seem to get it to work. Sorry but if you google it you should be able to find numerous articles.

[dr dre]

Agree completely. Yes those dying from the virus may be in the at risk groups and the elderly but the big unknown is how it affects the young and healthy.

There are numerous studies out there but the problem is this is so new that nothing has been able to be done in a coordinated and in depth study. Early studies are saying that 10-15% of all people tested positive are still suffering from long term damage that is getting worse once the virus has been eradicated.

That isn’t necessarily limited to COVID patients only, it is well known that those who have been infected with influenza suffer long term effects as well:

Long term outcomes in survivors of epidemic Influenza A virus infection (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17497-6)

5 Ways the Flu Can Affect Your Health Even After You Feel Better (https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/flu-long-term-effects)

[highflyer40]

That isn’t necessarily limited to COVID patients only, it is well known that those who have been infected with influenza suffer long term effects as well:

Long term outcomes in survivors of epidemic Influenza A virus infection (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17497-6)

5 Ways the Flu Can Affect Your Health Even After You Feel Better (https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/flu-long-term-effects)

Even from that article it states that 80000 died all last year from flu. There have already been 175000 in 6 months this year.

Yes the same long term conditions can happen with influenza as well... the kicker is there is a vaccine for influenza there is not and will not be one for Covid for quite some time if ever.

Current cases of Covid are at 22M if the 10-15% is remotely accurate that is 2.2-3.3M of all ages not just the elderly that are going to have problems in life moving on to one degree or another. All this after 6 months.

It is worth keeping up the precautions we have been (not saying it’s all correct, there have been and will be more screw ups) for the moment until we know more.

[slats11]

Multiple independent data is converging on the conclusion that (in Europe and USA) this thing is almost over.

There has not been a 2nd wave ANYWHERE IT HAS ALREADY SIGNIFICANTLY PASSED THROUGH. Yes there have been some more cases in Europe over recent weeks, but colleagues on the ground say it is different now - "there are cases, but they are not sick and not needing hospital like before." This suggests these cases represent enhanced capacity of testing and finding the milder cases who flew under the radar earlier on.

[QUOTE][https://jbhandleyblog.com/home/2020/7/27/lockdownlunacythree/QUOTE]

Australia and NZ didn't dodge a bullet. We delayed it. For a bit.

Consider this


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x1334/img_1179_635798f051540523c6a6f92ea3aba2e0312bb9b8.png

[Turnleft080]

That isn’t necessarily limited to COVID patients only, it is well known that those who have been infected with influenza suffer long term effects as well:

Long term outcomes in survivors of epidemic Influenza A virus infection (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17497-6)

5 Ways the Flu Can Affect Your Health Even After You Feel Better (https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/flu-long-term-effects)
Read both articles and was trying to get to the part of good nutrition. I read it again still could find it.
Don't you hate it when someone rips out the last chapter of a book.

[morno]

Read both articles and was trying to get to the part of good nutrition. I read it again still could find it.
Don't you hate it when someone rips out the last chapter of a book.

What, where you pump yourself full of garlic and think you’re invincible?

Turnleft, I don’t dispute the fact that good nutrition is a part of good health in general, but you’re so full of **** if you think it’s the be all and end all to never getting sick from things like the flu and even Covid. Where’s your independently reviewed research papers on the topic for Covid 19?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Well, for what 'tis worth, the WA Premier yesterday cancelled the Perth Royal Agricultural Show (The Show - literally hundreds of people and family businesses employed normally ), citing the crowd factor, the 'separation' factor and the cleaning of the 'various surfaces' etc .to be uncontrollable.

So I guess he means 'business'.....or lack thereof - and please pardon the pun.

[Ragnor]

Out of curiosity, what are these state and territory premiers doing to support their local business? WA show cancel, various NT, QLD and TAS do these premiers expect Fed Gov support for their own causes problems?

[Turnleft080]

Out of curiosity, what are these state and territory premiers doing to support their local business? WA show cancel, various NT, QLD and TAS do these premiers expect Fed Gov support for their own causes problems?

Ragnor your almost leaning to what I said in March and a day ago:
You shouldn't be scared of the virus, what is scary is how governments react to it. A total revelation back then. Not any more.
Dan Andrews now saying the ADF are nothing but a side show.

[currawong]

No surprises here really...

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

Or here...

https://www.australia.gov.au/covid-19-mythbusting

[LapSap]

I admit my naivety of the Constitution.
Is there the ability for the Federal Gov to ultimately overrule State Premiers on border closures?
Granted, perhaps now is not yet the time but at some point if a renegade State refuses to allow the country to operate as one, can anything be done about it??

[Buster Hyman]

I admit my naivety of the Constitution.
Is there the ability for the Federal Gov to ultimately overrule State Premiers on border closures?
Granted, perhaps now is not yet the time but at some point if a renegade State refuses to allow the country to operate as one, can anything be done about it??
I may be wrong (I was wrong once before...). but I think that's a Referendum question.

[Xeptu]

I admit my naivety of the Constitution.
Is there the ability for the Federal Gov to ultimately overrule State Premiers on border closures?
Granted, perhaps now is not yet the time but at some point if a renegade State refuses to allow the country to operate as one, can anything be done about it??

No state can close its borders to other australian states except in a state of emergency. No premier would maintain a state of emergency if its parliament says there isn't one. (the majority of its citizens) to do so would trigger a leadership challenge or an election.
Can the Federal Government overrule a State Government with respect to a state of emergency, NO
Can the high court direct a state to end its state of emergency, YES, but its never happened.

[blubak]

Well, for what 'tis worth, the WA Premier yesterday cancelled the Perth Royal Agricultural Show (The Show - literally hundreds of people and family businesses employed normally ), citing the crowd factor, the 'separation' factor and the cleaning of the 'various surfaces' etc .to be uncontrollable.

So I guess he means 'business'.....or lack thereof - and please pardon the pun.
Oh,so its ok for Optus stadium to have crowds at the footy games that are held there but the crowds going to the show are causing risks.
I guess every seat & every surface are deep cleaned after every footy game & the footy fans will never attend a game if they feel unwell to any degree,how perfect,great decision premier.

[KRviator]

No state can close its borders to other australian states except in a state of emergency. No premier would maintain a state of emergency if its parliament says there isn't one. (the majority of its citizens) to do so would trigger a leadership challenge or an election.
Can the Federal Government overrule a State Government with respect to a state of emergency, NO
Can the high court direct a state to end its state of emergency, YES, but its never happened.However, the high court can, and has before, ruled under Section 117 of the constitution that a state body cannot impose laws or acts that unfairly penalise citizens who are not resident in the legislating state unless it is necessary to do so (stat e elections etc.). IF a Challenger can show the risk of NSW/Vicc residents entering WA for example, is no greater or worse than a Qld resident, then the WA government has a serious problem.

Palmer's challenge isn't s.117 though, he's having a go at them through s.92 relating to his business interests and freedom of trade.

[Turnleft080]

Oh,so its ok for Optus stadium to have crowds at the footy games that are held there but the crowds going to the show are causing risks.
I guess every seat & every surface are deep cleaned after every footy game & the footy fans will never attend a game if they feel unwell to any degree,how perfect,great decision premier.

To add more great decision making Vic testing has dropped one third. The curve that is bending south rapidly does not represent the true number of cases.
So let me make it clear once again my fellow (East Germans oops sorry did I just say that out loud), if this continues stalag 4, I meant stage 4 may have to continue well past Sept possibly to Christmas.
Your new rations will now include driving to a park to do your exercise. Remember do not break 5km or 1 hour the Covid troops will be flying their drones.

[Xeptu]

However, the high court can, and has before, ruled under Section 117 of the constitution that a state body cannot impose laws or acts that unfairly penalise citizens who are not resident in the legislating state unless it is necessary to do so (stat e elections etc.). IF a Challenger can show the risk of NSW/Vicc residents entering WA for example, is no greater or worse than a Qld resident, then the WA government has a serious problem.

Palmer's challenge isn't s.117 though, he's having a go at them through s.92 relating to his business interests and freedom of trade.

Quite correct, do you think a challenger would win that argument and even if the challenger did, by the time a ruling was handed down the crisis would be long over.

[KRviator]

Quite correct, do you think a challenger would win that argument and even if the challenger did, by the time a ruling was handed down the crisis would be long over.Absolutely - and that's what they're counting on. The cost to bring such an action would be astronomical, particularly if the High Court awarded costs against the challenger if they were to lose.

[Stickshift3000]

To add more great decision making Vic testing has dropped one third. The curve that is bending south rapidly does not represent the true number of cases.

Alternatively, there may be reduced reasons for people to come forward for testing.

Most likely because there are less people out there showing potential symptoms...

[TimmyTee]

To add more great decision making Vic testing has dropped one third. The curve that is bending south rapidly does not represent the true number of cases.


Couldn’t that easily be explained by the fact that common colds and viruses aren’t being spread so much? Even the flu rate has plummeted. So without all these additional sickies, wouldn’t there naturally be less people going to get tested due to symptoms? (Whether thats symptoms from covid or otherwise)?

[Turnleft080]

Alternatively, there may be reduced reasons for people to come forward for testing.

Most likely because there are less people out there showing potential symptoms...
Might need to go back to stage 3, to test more, to increase the cases so that we go back to stage 4.
This we be on tv soon called "Yes Minister series 3."

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

To add more great decision making Vic testing has dropped one third. The curve that is bending south rapidly does not represent the true number of cases.
So let me make it clear once again my fellow (East Germans oops sorry did I just say that out loud), if this continues stalag 4, I meant stage 4 may have to continue well past Sept possibly to Christmas.
Your new rations will now include driving to a park to do your exercise. Remember do not break 5km or 1 hour the Covid troops will be flying their drones.

If people are going out less, wearing masks and social distancing, then it stands to reason that people are also catching less colds and other illnesses that would have symptoms which would require testing.

That is a partial if not full reason for the drop in testing.

[brokenagain]

Qantas CEO calls for "national framework" on domestic border (https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-national-framework-domestic-borders)

Obviously he has a vested interest, but I could not agree more. There is absolutely no reason why there can’t be free travel between the likes of WA/SA/Qld/NT/Tasmania. When the goal posts were moved from ‘flattening the curve’ to ‘elimination’ by the state premiers, we became hostages to their political whims, and desires for re-election.

[jrfsp]

When 95% of the WA population support a hard border, why would they change it.

QLD today had a case from an as yet unknown source

[clark y]

Victoria had a miracle today with just under 2300 active cases getting better!

[neville_nobody]

The States will drop their borders the second they have to actually start paying for the consequences.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

They must have all had garlic bread with dinner, the PPRUNE miracle cure!

[Turnleft080]

They must have all had garlic bread with dinner, the PPRUNE miracle cure!

Re busting the myth busters. The WHO must very very worried.

[Turnleft080]

Not even AJ announcing 2.7 bill loss rings any bells in these premiers about opening borders. Couldn't give any horse droppings about it.
Then the SA premier wouldn't allow 2 age workers to cross the Vic/SA border to do work at an age care centre, though it certainly ok to
bring in 200 students from Singapore overnight.

[Buster Hyman]

Shortage of Doctors in Tasmania. They can't get across the border restrictions...:ugh:

[Angle of Attack]

The rumour is if nothing changes in a couple of months they will shut shop completely and let the feds figure out this mess. There’s only so far you can go...

[Angle of Attack]

All for 11 people in hospital outside Victoria, pretty sad really

[PoppaJo]

The best thing everyone can do is simply vote out these delusional Labor clowns.

Starting this Saturday with the fool who wants to close down his state for 18 months. Based on what ****** evidence! Get rid of him.

[Ragnor]

Aviation and tourism aside- More serious problems are starting to rise due to these borders being closed. Farmers expecting a massive haul due to coming out of a drought which they dearly need. Normally contractors from VIC and NSW would venture north to QLD for the harvest and work their way down back to VIC as it starts later further south.Even with VIC border closed NSW faces the same issue due to lack of labor and the machinery required. Then there is our NZ brothers/sisters that come across and earn their seasonal money, we do not have enough shearers in NSW/VIC for the upcoming spring work another serious issue rising, wonder if PETA will get involved in that!

Allan Joyce is 100% correct, there needs to be a national frame work on opening up. It still mind fu$ks me that we are all closed of to each other. We are currently doing 2 flights a day (QantasLink doing even more) to YBNA full loads 372 passengers a day from the supposed hot spot of Sydney, by QLD assumptions Ballina area should be a petri dish of Covid-19, guess one case makes it a hot spot.

Border closures are having much more of an effect to our economy than the grounding of tourism. Unfortunately one premier is making it a political election campaign which I think will stick unless a Liberal government gets elected.

[Chris2303]

That's the problem with your Federal/State constitution.

Is it time perhaps to get rid of state governments?

And, yes, I am being serious

[Ragnor]

Time for State Gov to be review for sure, we have local councils that really take care of the local work.

[blubak]

That's the problem with your Federal/State constitution.

Is it time perhaps to get rid of state governments?

And, yes, I am being serious
There would be plenty of support for that,how many ministers do we have with the same title & all trying to do the same job without much success.
The only thing in common is they all get a nice lifetime pension from our taxes & whilst holding their ministerial post they are all happy to tell us how hard they work & what a great job they do.
1 country,1 government,time to get rid of the rest,see how they like jobkeeper!

[Buster Hyman]

There would be plenty of support for that,how many ministers do we have with the same title & all trying to do the same job without much success.

If Comrade Dans China deal isn't enough of a catalyst for change, then we're all screwed.

[GaryGnu]

That's the problem with your Federal/State constitution.

Is it time perhaps to get rid of state governments?

And, yes, I am being serious

It's waaaaaaaaay past time for that. The borders debacle has just crystalised it further.

[Chris2303]

It's waaaaaaaaay past time for that. The borders debacle has just crystalised it further.

NZ has managed so far with locking Auckland down at level 3 with the rest of the country at level 2. True there have been some minor hiccups but travel exemptions exist where necessary.

[blubak]

Not even AJ announcing 2.7 bill loss rings any bells in these premiers about opening borders. Couldn't give any horse droppings about it.
Then the SA premier wouldn't allow 2 age workers to cross the Vic/SA border to do work at an age care centre, though it certainly ok to
bring in 200 students from Singapore overnight.
More back slapping from these morons who like you to believe they care,no dispute that Andrews has made a big error with the hotel issue but overall i think he has done a pretty good job(lots will disagree of course).
Listened to Scomo speaking after nat cabinet meeting,more nothing,no decision,excuse excuse excuse,doesnt want to offend anyone,needs to man up!

[Ragnor]

Blubak, I could not agree more. Sco Mo really needs to grow a set not worry about offending everyone and stop delivering speeches than mean nothing or making announcements that only cost more money.

He keeps banging on starting the economy he surely is not really helping to start the economy, his next election is about May 2022 plenty of time for him, QLD is next in October they’re playing the political covid card for that one. I guess we will see what QLD really think of the border closure in October.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

FYI......
Tonight's ABC News (Fri 21st) reporting that WA Premier says it may be 'well into the next year' before WA's borders are declared 'open'.
March & beyond got a mention.....For what its worth.....

That is all.....

[On eyre]

[QUOTE=Ex FSO GRIFFO;10866767]FYI......
Tonight's ABC News (Fri 21st) reporting that WA Premier says it may be 'well into the next year' before WA's borders are declared 'open'.
March & beyond got a mention.....For what its worth.....

That is all.....[/QUOT

Used to have a lot of respect for sandgropers but rapidly losing that with this guy.

yep - f**k you Jack - I’m alright comes to mind.

[Buster Hyman]

So, if we make it a condition that border closures also include GST monies from excluded States as well, would that change their mind? I bet VIC & NSW would welcome the retention of their collected GST...to aid in the recovery, and pay off some Chinese loans of course.

[Green.Dot]

These Premiers are morons. Do they have a hidden agenda to make every Australian airline go bankrupt? And what about all the associated industries?

I feel so sorry for our kids- we are watching our economy and their future being trashed through lack of proactivity when at least half of the country should have restriction free travel (at this very moment, yes the situation could change).

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

FYI......
Tonight's ABC News (Fri 21st) reporting that WA Premier says it may be 'well into the next year' before WA's borders are declared 'open'.
March & beyond got a mention.....

Guess when the WA state election is?

Pandering to his core voter base and to hell with the rest of you.

[Ragnor]

QLD have 9 new cases ( 3 are on a cargo ship off TSV) this morning, QLD really need to learn to live with it, the strategy of eliminating it is not working for them. Maybe Gladys could show Anastasia how its done and hand her play book over to her.

[Green.Dot]

QLD have 9 new cases ( 3 are on a cargo ship off TSV) this morning, QLD really need to learn to live with it, the strategy of eliminating it is not working for them. Maybe Gladys could show Anastasia how its done and hand her play book over to her.

Gladys seems to be the only one with a spine willing to accept some risk in the interests of keeping the economy going and for that I say good job. Their low case numbers speak for themselves proving that a balance can be found- even with a basket case of a State bordering it & the Ruby Princess fiasco.

[blubak]

Gladys seems to be the only one with a spine willing to accept some risk in the interests of keeping the economy going and for that I say good job. Their low case numbers speak for themselves proving that a balance can be found- even with a basket case of a State bordering it & the Ruby Princess fiasco.
Yes agree 100%,doesnt stand up & bleat about how good she is unlike her northern counterpart.
Bet Anastasia wont be telling us how good she is today as her state sinks further towards bankruptcy.
Feel sorry for all the tourism operators up there who will never see another $ from the southern states spent at their business again.
Is she going to stage the AFL grand final with a crowd of 30 allowed🙄

[Ragnor]

QLD is the laughing stock of the country, they want AFL, NRL Grand finals but won’t let a pregnant mother in northern NSW with twins to be emergency flown to a hospital for surgery, they had to be taken to Sydney luckily they all survived.

How are they bank rolling the 200million to pay Bain?

[Bend alot]

QLD have 9 new cases ( 3 are on a cargo ship off TSV) this morning, QLD really need to learn to live with it, the strategy of eliminating it is not working for them. Maybe Gladys could show Anastasia how its done and hand her play book over to her.
Coincidentally VIC had 9 new Covid deaths yesterday (they still have 626 in hospital inc 40 in ICU) and Victoria are jumping with joy with their face-masks on, at only 179 new cases.

Queensland persons can travel greater than 5km (24 hours a day).

Cairns Airport announced (19-Aug-2020) Brisbane-Cairns intrastate route is the busiest route in Australia.

NSW does not have border closures - they don't need to. Victoria closed it's borders and Queensland also, the other states either have low/no cases or border closures.

[Bend alot]

https://blueswandaily.com/cairns-airport-brisbane-to-cairns-route-the-busiest-in-the-country/

Cairns Airport announced (19-Aug-2020) Brisbane-Cairns intrastate route is the busiest route in Australia, as airlines are increasing capacity into Cairns from intrastate and selected interstate destinations, indicating the region is well poised to see a strong return in visitor numbers as momentum continues. From the beginning of Sep-2020, Cairns will see the return of 11 times weekly Gold Coast service and Jetstar will resume twice weekly service to Darwin. Jetstar is also increasing service to Adelaide to six times weekly from 19-Aug-2020 and then to daily from 01-Sep-2020. Brisbane-Townsville, and Brisbane-Mackay are now the second and third busiest routes nationally.

[Slezy9]

NSW does not have border closures - they don't need to. Victoria closed it's borders and Queensland also, the other states either have low/no cases or border closures.

I’m sorry to butt into your “Labor = bad” echo chamber. But you’re incorrect. NSW will not allow people who have been in VIC into NSW. VIC has no border restrictions.

[Bend alot]

I’m sorry to butt into your “Labor = bad” echo chamber. But you’re incorrect. NSW will not allow people who have been in VIC into NSW. VIC has no border restrictions.
I do not see it as a red or blue team - but stand corrected on Vic borders and NSW have border "restrictions".

[rattman]

I’m sorry to butt into your “Labor = bad” echo chamber. But you’re incorrect. NSW will not allow people who have been in VIC into NSW. VIC has no border restrictions.

And the intitial reason for the QLD / NSW border closure is that NSW allowed people in from VIC so they could lie and travel onto QLD. (The 3 women charged for doing that exact thing ) Act is under the same condition even tho they haven't had a positive for a week or 2

What I find funny is that there are always people from NSW and VIC ****ting on QLD for being the 'redneck state' but soon as the borders are closed its the worst thing ever and how dare QLD

[Green.Dot]

What I find funny is that there are always people from NSW and VIC ****ting on QLD for being the 'redneck state' but soon as the borders are closed its the worst thing ever and how dare QLD

No one is currently arguing about NSW and VIC being locked out. This is now about how stupid WA/QLD/NT/SA/ACT and TAS are for not working together and destroying their own economies.

[Bend alot]

NSW put border restrictions in place on 8 July (prior to this they were open).

Passenger numbers for the prior month (June).

Brisbane Airport : 184,616
Sydney Airport : 172,000

Both these numbers are well down on pre-Covid and I expect Sydney took in more international arrivals than Brisbane. Given the disproportionate population of the two states and QLD had closed borders till July 10 - it sure looks like one state is doing better than the other.

Interestingly for the same month the passenger numbers for a few other airports (we got out done by the Kiwi's)

Heathrow Airport : 320,283
Auckland Airport : 231,600
Hong Kong : 59,000
Changi : 48,200

[Bend alot]

No one is currently arguing about NSW and VIC being locked out. This is now about how stupid WA/QLD/NT/SA/ACT and TAS are for not working together and destroying their own economies.
Only Scomo.

“I think a national leader should have been able to bring all of the states and territories together,” Ms Palaszczuk said. “Frankly, I‘m a bit sick that Queensland has been singled out as opposed to South Australia, and Tasmania, just to name a few"

[Square Bear]

And the intitial reason for the QLD / NSW border closure is that NSW allowed people in from VIC so they could lie and travel onto QLD.

:ugh: And the very same girls could have just as easily flown from Vic to Qld and transited to a flight to NSW. But hey, don't let the truth get into the way of a good story, especially is you are a parochial type.

And with this weeks QLD outbreak in a secure Detention Centre in Brisbane it shows that even putting severe (and even some idiotic and compassionless) restrictions in place, it is highly unlikely that you will stop the transmission...especially on the east coast which doesn't benefit from the longer distances of separation as does the Sovereign Principality of Western Australia.

[Bend alot]

:ugh: And the very same girls could have just as easily flown from Vic to Qld and transited to a flight to NSW. But hey, don't let the truth get into the way of a good story, especially is you are a parochial type.

And with this weeks QLD outbreak in a secure Detention Centre in Brisbane it shows that even putting severe (and even some idiotic and compassionless) restrictions in place, it is highly unlikely that you will stop the transmission...especially on the east coast which doesn't benefit from the longer distances of separation as does the Sovereign Principality of Western Australia.
The 6 relevant cases (more test results to come) in QLD are related to 1 worker. It is unknown how that person contacted Covid-19 at this stage so the "outbreak" shows nothing much at the moment.

Given the other states have not changed their border restrictions with Queensland at this time is an indicator of that outbreak, and the response to it.

The girls are just one example of NSW and the ACT being used to gain illegal access to QLD - NSW was happy to facilitate these actions for the sake of a few $'s for THEIR economy, sort of had the opposite effect. Had NSW been a responsible player they would have put restrictions on border travel with VIC early but even after it was clear VIC was a basket case they did nothing - the result is they are excluded as much as VIC even though they seem to have good case tracking capabilities.

[Square Bear]

The girls are just one example of NSW and the ACT being used to gain illegal access to QLD - NSW was happy to facilitate these actions for the sake of a few $'s for THEIR economy, sort of had the opposite effect.

Bend a lot, I can't understand how you can attribute this to NSW or ACT, the girls merely transited NSW and LEGALLY returned to QLD of which they were residents, and entitled too. The illegal actions were theirs alone by the making of false declarations of where they had been, and not some giant conspiracy whereby NSW facilitated entry to QLD. In fact people quite often legally transit SYD from MEL enroute to BNE as on many occasions this has been or is the ONLY flight connections on the day. I have done it myself whereby it was the only way possible to travel between MEL and BNE.

As I said, don't let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy tale, eh....Contrails, 5G Towers next perhaps? :)

[Ragnor]

The girls are just one example of NSW and the ACT being used to gain illegal access to QLD - NSW was happy to facilitate these actions for the sake of a few $'s for THEIR economy, sort of had the opposite effect. Had NSW been a responsible player they would have put restrictions on border travel with VIC early but even after it was clear VIC was a basket case they did nothing - the result is they are excluded as much as VIC even though they seem to have good case tracking capabilities.

Just the opposite, Gladys is proving by not doing knee jerk reactions having a very capable team with contact tracing and high testing you can achieve the original goal set by Dr Murphy NSW has done that well our cases over past 2 months proves it. The Cross roads hotel perfect example of NSW exemplary work being able to manage this pandemic. It would be good if the other states could manage this pandemic as well as NSW then we all could be back at work.

How is NSW/ACT responsible for these girls traveling to QLD their home state? NSW and VIC residents could easily say QLD need to control their criminals, these girls after all were on a shop lifting holiday to their southern states.

[layman]

So why is NSW stopping ACT residents from driving from a Covid-19 free area in regional Victoria? There was a small window where you could travel from Albury to Canberra. It would have taken us longer to drive to Albury(5.5-6 hours), with another 3.5 hours to Canberra (about 9-10 hours all-up), than to drive direct from where we are in Victoria (~5.5hours)

Our only alternative now is a train to Melbourne, bus / taxi to Tullamarine, fly to Canberra, taxi home. Too many potential points of exposure for people of our vintage.

If borders were open, they could 'time-stamp' us when we cross the Vic/NSW border, and again when we're home. We could drive non-stop (well maybe a toilet break). If they want to track us, we can supply GPS data from multiple sources (in-car, phone, watch).

As it is we're 'stuck' until NSW lifts it border restrictions.

[Bend alot]

Just the opposite, Gladys is proving by not doing knee jerk reactions having a very capable team with contact tracing and high testing you can achieve the original goal set by Dr Murphy NSW has done that well our cases over past 2 months proves it. The Cross roads hotel perfect example of NSW exemplary work being able to manage this pandemic. It would be good if the other states could manage this pandemic as well as NSW then we all could be back at work.

How is NSW/ACT responsible for these girls traveling to QLD their home state? NSW and VIC residents could easily say QLD need to control their criminals, these girls after all were on a shop lifting holiday to their southern states.
They are/were responsible due to the fact they allowed "unrestricted" travel to people from Victoria knowing fully well that Victorians were not permitted travel to other states. They put NO control measures in place to respect the other states restrictions that may not have such effective tracing methods or medical resources.

This left the ACT and NSW to be abused by lying people such as the girls that would normally have been put in quarantine on entry.

The ACT and NSW were not required to do anything to assist QLD with this problem, that is exactly what they did. Since Queensland's "honesty declaration" was not working they had to make it harder for people from Victoria to enter - that resulted in the weak link being shut.

Had NSW assisted in some way in providing new arrivals into it's state from Victoria, the NSW/QLD border may well still be open.

The only real good thing, is people then needed to fly into QLD not drive.

[rattman]

Just the opposite, Gladys is proving by not doing knee jerk reactions having a very capable team with contact tracing and high testing you can achieve the original goal set by Dr Murphy NSW has done that well our cases over past 2 months proves it. The Cross roads hotel perfect example of NSW exemplary work being able to manage this pandemic. It would be good if the other states could manage this pandemic as well as NSW then we all could be back at work.

How is NSW/ACT responsible for these girls traveling to QLD their home state? NSW and VIC residents could easily say QLD need to control their criminals, these girls after all were on a shop lifting holiday to their southern states.

You talking like this was done to penalise NSW residents, no one has ever said NSW is responsible, but she took the actions that she believes to protect the state and most of the people I have talked to are generally OK with it. I work in tourism and I jobless atm and will be for a while and open QLD or not theres no way enough people will come back to QLD to make it even a drop in the bucket of lost business. Apart from tourism most localised businesses are trading generally like theres no real change. Its funny that NSW is getting indignent that the border was closed, when gladys announced the NSW/ VIC closure after qld announced the QLD / NSW closure. Maybe gladys could have prevented it by announcing a NSW / VIC closure earlier.

[Joker89]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/15/we-could-open-up-again-and-forget-the-whole-thing/

from another thread

[Green.Dot]

Maybe gladys could have prevented it by announcing a NSW / VIC closure earlier.

Or maybe if Australia’s most arrogant politician - Dan Andrews decided to do hotel quarantine the same way as the other states he wouldn’t be giving everyone else a giant headache. Intriguingly he still has many loyal followers who trust him and refuse to believe he and his Government are to blame. That I cannot understand.

[Bend alot]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/15/we-could-open-up-again-and-forget-the-whole-thing/

from another thread
11 days ago.

Norway is cracking down heavily on travel to and from a host of European neighbors where Covid is making a startling comeback.

The latest countries to be added to its “red” list are France, (https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarathiessen/2020/08/09/paris-masks-mandatory-outdoors-amid-virus-surge-france/#601cd336f076) the Czech Republic, Switzerland, Monaco, and several parts of Sweden. Which basically means tourists from these places are no longer welcome, with travel restrictions reimposed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarathiessen/2020/08/11/france-switzerland-sweden-norway-travel-covid-red-list-europe/#2a380ad93186

[Ragnor]

They are/were responsible due to the fact they allowed "unrestricted" travel to people from Victoria knowing fully well that Victorians were not permitted travel to other states. They put NO control measures in place to respect the other states restrictions that may not have such effective tracing methods or medical resources.

This left the ACT and NSW to be abused by lying people such as the girls that would normally have been put in quarantine on entry.

The ACT and NSW were not required to do anything to assist QLD with this problem, that is exactly what they did. Since Queensland's "honesty declaration" was not working they had to make it harder for people from Victoria to enter - that resulted in the weak link being shut.

Had NSW assisted in some way in providing new arrivals into it's state from Victoria, the NSW/QLD border may well still be open.

The only real good thing, is people then needed to fly into QLD not drive.

HaHaHa good one, weak link really? NSW is by far doing the best, we have achieved the goal set at the start. Also in case you missed the news conference from Anastasia she was very keen to close the border the moment she opened them every morning she would use the word "slam"she wanted to make a statement she has now. We just have to wait until October to see if all of QLD agree. Victorian visitors to NSW mandatory quarantine was in effect from August 5th after the two went on their criminal adventure so your honesty declaration is really about QLD residents LYING on said declaration but yet, we all pay. My point is NSW is dealing with it learning to live with it the other states are not their solution is to shut shop no questions and no real answers to why. I agree with VIC border closure for obvious reasons but once they get to consistent numbers like NSW then I would be happy to go to Melbourne.

[Bend alot]

HaHaHa good one, weak link really? NSW is by far doing the best, we have achieved the goal set at the start. Also in case you missed the news conference from Anastasia she was very keen to close the border the moment she opened them every morning she would use the word "slam"she wanted to make a statement she has now. We just have to wait until October to see if all of QLD agree. Victorian visitors to NSW mandatory quarantine was in effect from August 5th after the two went on their criminal adventure so your honesty declaration is really about QLD residents LYING on said declaration but yet, we all pay. My point is NSW is dealing with it learning to live with it the other states are not their solution is to shut shop no questions and no real answers to why. I agree with VIC border closure for obvious reasons but once they get to consistent numbers like NSW then I would be happy to go to Melbourne.
Many countries have great protections when it comes to drugs, some less so.

What has happened with international travel is knowing where people have crossed borders and the correct controls of borders being meet = tracing.

NSW is the weak link for other states as they are/were the host of a parasite state - anyone in Victoria given the option would try escape phase 4.

You can stop repeating NSW has done well with trace and control - we agree! You just let transients use that as an advantage and that cost you.

Then people with suspicious movements get "extra attention" when they have transited a "red flag" country via a safe country. It worked very well.

Had NSW had quarantine with Victoria earlier the girls from QLD would have not been able to do that trip as they did - it would have cost them a few handbags and a few weeks in NSW before hitting Logan.

If we get rid of state governments the folk from VIC and NSW hold to many cards as we see, toss a coin as to the boat we would be in - but the toss would take months to land and we would then be in the VIC state of bad affairs either way. Local governments are mostly a joke and most corrupt (land development).

[Joker89]

11 days ago.

Norway is cracking down heavily on travel to and from a host of European neighbors where Covid is making a startling comeback.

The latest countries to be added to its “red” list are France, (https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarathiessen/2020/08/09/paris-masks-mandatory-outdoors-amid-virus-surge-france/#601cd336f076) the Czech Republic, Switzerland, Monaco, and several parts of Sweden. Which basically means tourists from these places are no longer welcome, with travel restrictions reimposed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarathiessen/2020/08/11/france-switzerland-sweden-norway-travel-covid-red-list-europe/#2a380ad93186

cant see how your post is relevant to the article. I’m in Sweden and when I arrived there was zero care given on where I had been. And there is no Armageddon.

[Square Bear]

Had NSW had quarantine with Victoria earlier the girls from QLD would have not been able to do that trip as they did - it would have cost them a few handbags and a few weeks in NSW before hitting Logan.

Bendalot,
No wish to belabour the point, nor extend the debate (my last word on the issue btw), but .....whilst some MEL BNE flights do connect through SYD, direct flights are available and indeed if those young female adults (I won't use your words girls as that insinuates that they were of an age without legal reasoning, which they were definitely not) were to travel from MEL to BNE tomorrow they would be able to purchase a ticket on VA 341, departure MEL 1700hrs DCT MEL arrive 1910 for the bargain price of $215.

That being the case, perhaps you might blame NSW for allowing overflight flights between VIC and QLD? Or we can simply shut the Aviation industry completely down and save cross contamination, but, .those few of us (collectively) with jobs joining the rest on the eventual dole line once Jobkeeper finishes (which it will).

IMHO, State of Origin mentality belongs on the football field, not for something so serious as this, but when you have a Premier (one I also share BTW) that appears to see this as such, I understand that the believers tend to follow suit.

And as a died in the wool Queenslander, I applaud the Premier of NSW for her measured approach and response to what is thrown at her, and consider it a more realistic one than that taken by the isolationist leaders of this country.

Cheers

[Bend alot]

Bendalot,
No wish to belabour the point, nor extend the debate (my last word on the issue btw), but .....whilst some MEL BNE flights do connect through SYD, direct flights are available and indeed if those young female adults (I won't use your words girls as that insinuates that they were of an age without legal reasoning, which they were definitely not) were to travel from MEL to BNE tomorrow they wold be able to purchase a ticket on VA 341, departure MEL 1700hrs DCT MEL arrive 1910 for the bargain price of $215.
Cheers


Exactly and then would have required mandatory hotel quarantine, only avoided because NSW did not require anything - BUT now have shut the border = hindsight a little late.

The girls did have a right to enter home state at all times - they avoided a key factor of quarantine by using NSW (P.S not my word "girls" mate blame another poster).

[Bend alot]

:ugh: And the very same girls could have just as easily flown from Vic to Qld and transited to a flight to NSW.

The first use of the word "girls" I found.

Happy to be corrected as you try to belittle me.

[compressor stall]

Up until 2 weeks ago there were 2 extremes. The NZ / QLD / TAS / WA model of elimination on one hand and the US style on the other.

We now have seen how elimination doesn't work. NZ and QLD are perfect examples of this. And the US model doesn't either. Where's the middle ground?

The longer our state borders stay shut, the less likely Virgin Mk 2 will emerge. And the less likely QF will survive as the airline we know it.

Our economy can't survive this intra country divide. Open the state borders, allow travel. Mandate masks in public places where you interact others outside your bubble. I understand that it will be political suicide for a premier of a COVID free state to do so, but what's worse? The economy can't survive, the handouts can't continue for ever. Forget Tassie and WA for now - just get QLD NSW VIC and maybe SA going again and people back to work. With their economies recovering Tassie will likely come to the party and maybe WA will maybe they won't. Does that matter? ;)

It needs public acceptance for this - the jobs of most of the readership of this BB rely on it.

[Joker89]

The answer CS is that the politicians in Australia and NZ have whipped up the fear for their own political gain. They cannot extract themselves from this. They only care about their own jobs.

The only thing harder than getting a public servant to make a decision is getting them to reverse that decision.

case in point the mask debarcle. Saying that masks could actually make things worse is probably the most negligent thing to come out of anyone’s mouth.

[compressor stall]

Re masks - to be fair, very early on that was medical opinion. I have medical folk in my family and I remember reading out something from the CDC back in March-ish saying that masks were the way forward and it was met with serious scepticism.

And Dan and Gladys are being held to ransom by every other state leader to achieve elimination.

[Ragnor]

Well it looks Mr Gunner struggling to hold onto a majority, his keep the border closed campaign slogan didn't have the effect he wanted should of been a slam dunk re election. Voters looking for certainty in time of crisis.

[Global Aviator]

Talking to many from different countries Aus comes up. Common point, isn’t Australia one country? Watching the news it is more like lots of little countries. Not to mention previous changes of the PM, at least ScoMo hasn’t been attacked during this and is haven a crack.

Travel bubbles in the Asia Pac are starting, Singapore - En Zud will be interesting.

I’m with CS on this get the economy moving.

Masks, whatever the research one thing that’s masks DO do is make people conscious of the issues all the time. It does make you think. Personally I hate em but that’s life.

Straya is pretty much locked down, residents cannot even come back with daily quotas. However keep an eye on the news for flying in foreign workers to do jobs Aussies to fooken lazy to do? To me this is the biggest madness in these current times.

[currawong]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/15/we-could-open-up-again-and-forget-the-whole-thing/

from another thread

I can only recommend you might want to fact check the statements made, the currency of the information and the source on that one.

"Spiked" is a rag phoenixed from "Living Marxism", journal of the British Revolutionary Communist Party, for example.

To say back in May that the pandemic was essentially "over" has been shown to be somewhat premature...

[Turnleft080]

Vic has gone from state of emergency, then state of disaster, it's now starting to feel like a state of desperation.
It's half time in stage 4 and according to Sutton we will never ever see case numbers in their 300/400s again.
Big call brother. Final siren blows in 3 weeks I'm eager to know what the score will end up. I've listened to a lot of talk back on radio and the patience, frustration, is starting to run thin just like mine, just like yours.
We know the final siren will blow in 3 weeks, however will go to the tribunal either to extend Stage 4 or go to a lower number. Jacinta and Anastasia have now understood that elimination is impossible.
If QLD cases increase (In the words of a footy commentator ) the election is going to be a cracker.