All borders to reopen.

[NumptyAussie]

Just need NSW to introduce a short term C*ckhead quarantine rule.
I guess that Scott Morrison better not travel to Canberra then?
Wait, I misread your post. Morrison will be ok, he is a long term cockhead!

[SHVC]

Seems ppl can’t wait to vote a bigger c**khead in.

[neville_nobody]

Politicians are exempt exempt from inbound restrictions but must still do 2wks home quarantine. If Marko does that at his home, his whole family has to quarantine as well.

And McGowan is benefiting from NSW's more liberal position too. If they were following his "abundance of caution" model he'd be locked up for a month, two weeks in NSW then 2 more in WA.

[Square Bear]

I guess that Scott Morrison better not travel to Canberra then?
Wait, I misread your post. Morrison will be ok, he is a long term cockhead!

Perhaps those forum posters that also fit the C*ckhead mould should look at their travel plans....mmmh.

But, hey, bet there would be support for "Each Way Albo" to enter each of the Labor Fiefdoms to sprout his offer, whilst denying Morrison entry, or the Indies, or the Greens, etc etc....nice way to shut down fair democracy.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

As long as 'Albo' is 'head honcho' of the opposition, that is where 'they' will remain OI rekkon......

Come on next election...or is that 'chinese' for my next wish from the 'good fairy'..??

[SRFred]

And McGowan is benefiting from NSW's more liberal position too. If they were following his "abundance of caution" model he'd be locked up for a month, two weeks in NSW then 2 more in WA.

The two weeks on return to the state of Wait Awhile is correct but NSW should be enforcing the two weeks quarantine while the medical profession check to see what version of delusion he is suffering from. We wouldn't want to spread his disease in NSW and other states.

[Chad Gates]

He has no intention of opening the border this year. unless I’m not interpreting this properly. Read the bit about the quarantine facilities.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-27/mark-mcgowan-admits-new-quarantine-rules-inconsistent/100783900

[dr dre]

He has no intention of opening the border this year. unless I’m not interpreting this properly. Read the bit about the quarantine facilities.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-27/mark-mcgowan-admits-new-quarantine-rules-inconsistent/100783900

I don't think you're interpreting it properly. Those quarantine facilities are also being built in Queensland and Victoria, and they already have one in the NT (Howard Springs), yet those places are open. These facilities are more about long term needs for quarantine in the future (to avoid what happened in this pandemic with so many Australians being kept outside the country for so long), or the accommodation of a large group of people in a facility for other purposes.

WA proposals for future entry do include quarantine on unvaccinated arrivals, so in the context of this current pandemic it may be about them and then putting them into a purpose built quarantine facility rather than hotels, whilst vaccinated travelers (hopefully soon) are not required to quarantine.

In terms of when WA will open to the vaccinated? Probably when more RATs arrive and workable close contact rules have been finalised to avoid workforce disruptions seen in the east over the last month. Meeting with mining companies to finalise those rules tomorrow and there should be 25 million RATs in the state by end of February. Other reasons like declining booster protection in the already boosted elderly and impending winter surge will require WA to be open soon, I still predict this delay to extend no more than early March, about 4 weeks from original.

[Chad Gates]

I do hope you’re right doc. I just don’t understand why hotel quarantine facilities would be all chocked up going into August if the border is indeed open.

[dr dre]

I do hope you’re right doc. I just don’t understand why hotel quarantine facilities would be all chocked up going into August if the border is indeed open.

It's a 500-1000 bed facility.

Unvaccinated travelers still have to do 14 days quarantine. That's only about 35-70 new people coming into the camp per day. Even now with the extreme risk to all other states there's far more entrants into the state as a whole per day.

So if they were estimating about 2000 international arrivals per day that's only about 3.5% of the estimated arrivals who could be accommodated in this facility. It could hold those who come down with symptoms inflight, or those who test positive on arrival. Or any other diseases, say another Ebola outbreak?

Given that it'll only hold 35-70 new entrants per day at maximum theoretical capacity then it isn't going to be used for the vast majority of people planned to come into the state, only the very few who need to quarantine for a specific reason. And this discounts the greater number of domestic arrivals who are now coming from a non Covid Zero locations, so essentially and practically the same level as international arrivals.

Now if they were planning on a 20-50,000 bed facility then I'd say Covid zero is the long term plan. As they aren't then a long term hard border is not the plan as far as I can see.

[SHVC]

And to think the country is worried about plastic straws.

Let’s waste 2 RAT kits per child per week for no benefit. If you presented to a lab for PCR test with no symptoms they would send you away.

[dr dre]

I do hope you’re right doc. I just don’t understand why hotel quarantine facilities would be all chocked up going into August if the border is indeed open.

And in addition to what I posted above I've just found this article just posted which explains those comments a bit better. States the Quarantine Facility is not going to be used for mandatory isolation once borders open. What it'll be used for is travelers who test positive and need to isolate, but don't have a place to isolate because the hotel quarantine system has been shut down.

The premier said WA had to keep its hotel quarantine system operational because once the borders reopened, there would be infected people with nowhere to isolate. He said the hotels would be needed until at least July or August when the federal government’s Bullsbrook quarantine hub opened. (https://7news.com.au/news/coronavirus/was-hard-border-to-soften-as-cases-grow-c-5464973)

So the comments regarding the purpose built Quarantine facility aren't a long term plan for a hard border. It's simply for those who need a place to isolate once the border reopens and the hotel quarantine system has been shut down.

[neville_nobody]

In terms of when WA will open to the vaccinated? Probably when more RATs arrive and workable close contact rules have been finalised to avoid workforce disruptions seen in the east over the last month. Meeting with mining companies to finalise those rules tomorrow and there should be 25 million RATs in the state by end of February. Other reasons like declining booster protection in the already boosted elderly and impending winter surge will require WA to be open soon, I still predict this delay to extend no more than early March, about 4 weeks from original.

What happened to him saying he was waiting for triple vaccination or has that been canned already because it didn't poll very well? I read the AMA have got stuck into him about the irrationality of his decision making.

[dr dre]

What happened to him saying he was waiting for triple vaccination or has that been canned already because it didn't poll very well? I read the AMA have got stuck into him about the irrationality of his decision making.

Yeah I think the backlash was greater than he thought. Even the previously sympathetic West Australian newspaper has gotten stuck into him since last week's delay. There is some benefit to waiting to get as many people boosted as possible before allowing higher spread (assuming this current wave doesn't take off, and seeing it has hit nightclubs and festivals it probably will). So the triple dose mandate was implemented for 75% of the workforce and generally not a source of discontent, and predictions are 75% booster rate should be hit by March 2. But unlike the drive to get to 80-90% double vaxxed there now is a latest possible time they can hold off for. Late March is peak booster efficiency in the already boosted elderly, and the wave will take 6-8 weeks to pass through, so it definitely has to open up in March for it to end before winter.

[cessnapete]

Puzzled from afar, while presently watching a nearly full arena at a tennis match in Victoria. Have WA identified a more deadly strain of Omicron, than other parts of Australia, that need a China style lockdown/isolation?

[Torukmacto]

Puzzled from afar, while presently watching a nearly full arena at a tennis match in Victoria. Have WA identified a more deadly strain of Omicron, than other parts of Australia, that need a China style lockdown/isolation?
No one outside of WA can answer ? It’s a mystery to us all .

[unobtanium]

Puzzled from afar, while presently watching a nearly full arena at a tennis match in Victoria. Have WA identified a more deadly strain of Omicron, than other parts of Australia, that need a China style lockdown/isolation?

they can't handle any omicron cases as the hospital's are full already even with zero cases.

[Icarus2001]

they can't handle any omicron cases as the hospital's are full already even with zero cases.

Full hospitals with ambulance ramping up to four hours but McGowan does have $5.6 billion surplus.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-09/wa-budget-5-point-6-billion-surplus-but-no-border-reopening-date/100438990

[Australopithecus]

I am not convinced the WA lockdown means much to eastern states aviation activity. There are no border restrictions here in the engine room of the economy*, yet the terminals are pretty much deserted, and the few flights well under capacity. I am just starting a roster and will be lucky to do half of my pre covid hours.

*gratuitous piss take of WA

[dr dre]

I am not convinced the WA lockdown means much to eastern states aviation activity. There are no border restrictions here in the engine room of the economy*, yet the terminals are pretty much deserted, and the few flights well under capacity. I am just starting a roster and will be lucky to do half of my pre covid hours.

*gratuitous piss take of WA

QF, which were planning on 100% of pre Covid domestic capacity and 30% of international capacity around now. When the Xmas/NY wave hit the east coast that went down to 70% of Domestic capacity, and 20% of International capacity for Feb/March. WA's extended closure only took that domestic number down from 70 to 60% for Feb/March.

For instance all Honolulu flights have been suspended until the end of March.

[Australopithecus]

I heard on ABC this morning that households managed to squirrel away 240 Billion dollars in the last two years, and companies likewise had savings. While the government is calling this an “economic war chest”, it remains to be seen how this translates into pent-up demand. Since the building industry is unable to absorb all of those funds I am hoping that the punters rush back into travel.

As an aside, I can drive 77kms to the airport unfettered now-a once fantasy that isn’t that delicious after all.

[KRviator]

It sure as hell ain't our household. I did the numbers last month on the assumption I'd be going back to work next week. We (I) have lost about $350,000 due to the WA border closure. That's made up of slightly under two years lost salary (but still increasing now....), about 10 months worth of accrued annual & long service leave I had saved and was forced to take, $50,000 in lost superannuation and $15,000 in lost bonuses - and a lot of my FIFO colleagues are in a similar situation.

I'd love to know who's been able to save that kind of coin, because it is nearly $9,500 for every man, woman and child in the country.

[minigundiplomat]

I’ve lived in 6 countries and worked long term in numerous others; I have never seen accrued household wealth and savings used as a metric of a nations financial well-being.

GDP, GNP, Exports, Reserves - yes.

How much Wayne and Shirl have in the bank - nope.

[Torukmacto]

Article is behind paywall but has Mark had another thought this morning ?

[dr dre]

Article is behind paywall but has Mark had another thought this morning ?

There was a change to entry requirements for students that'll have a minor effect on overall travel, but the probably more significant thing is the outbreak of Covid in the iron ore mines, and now the big miners are pushing for a change to the less restrictive close contact rules. McGowan is initially resisting but more cases will only inevitably bring about that change, which is an important step in transition.

[Ladloy]

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/coronavirus/mark-mcgowan-did-the-right-thing-by-delaying-western-australias-reopening-scott-morrison-says/news-story/e9ac6ed4b514e3a0a4644d4e45350916

[KRviator]

I think Alan Joyce said it better, comparing WA to North Korea. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-04/alan-joyce-likens-wa-border-rules-to-north-korea/100804344)

Maye AJ would have more luck getting McCoward to pull his head out of his asre than Scotty from Marketing, "If you don't open the border by 28th Feb, QF9+10 will go via Darwin forevermore!"

[dr dre]

I think Alan Joyce said it better, comparing WA to North Korea. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-04/alan-joyce-likens-wa-border-rules-to-north-korea/100804344)

Maye AJ would have more luck getting McCoward to pull his head out of his asre than Scotty from Marketing, "If you don't open the border by 28th Feb, QF9+10 will go via Darwin forevermore!"

I think McGowan has the "sort of" upper hand. He knows there's enough local UK born in WA that there is always going to be a market for direct flights, plus there are practical limitations in Darwin with terminal and apron size etc.

AJ also probably knows that the delay is likely to be short lived, several weeks or so. Probably won't effect those services which weren't due to restart until April. But he needs to make headlines some how to put the pressure on, so you then get those attention grabbing comparisons.

I would even say the pressure being put on WA by airlines to open up is more due to their need to make profits in domestic interstate flying. No doubt the coffers of airlines have taken a big hit in January and upcoming in February and March. Approx 40% drop in domestic capacity, mostly due to the drop in demand from the eastern states. That's were the real money is made. They also know interstate flying in and out of WA will help restore that lost revenue.

So I'd say the pressure from Joyce is more to announce a date to restore confidence in booking on the domestic network primarily.

[blubak]

I think Alan Joyce said it better, comparing WA to North Korea. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-04/alan-joyce-likens-wa-border-rules-to-north-korea/100804344)

Maye AJ would have more luck getting McCoward to pull his head out of his asre than Scotty from Marketing, "If you don't open the border by 28th Feb, QF9+10 will go via Darwin forevermore!"
Its interesting to note that AJ never criticises the Hong Kong regime over their border being virtually closed.
I dont agree with what is happening in WA but why doesnt he compare HK to Nth Korea! I guess its because he likes to think he is important here in oz but hasnt got a set big enough to publicly criticise the Chinese & its not too long ago he found out with the failed JQ Hong Kong fiasco just how important he is up there.

[dr dre]

Its interesting to note that AJ never criticises the Hong Kong regime over their border being virtually closed.
I dont agree with what is happening in WA but why doesnt he compare HK to Nth Korea! I guess its because he likes to think he is important here in oz but hasnt got a set big enough to publicly criticise the Chinese & its not too long ago he found out with the failed JQ Hong Kong fiasco just how important he is up there.

No, read my post above. Airlines make their profits off domestic flying. They need the WA border open for domestic profits first and foremost.

[BuzzBox]

I think McGowan has the "sort of" upper hand. He knows there's enough local UK born in WA that there is always going to be a market for direct flights, plus there are practical limitations in Darwin with terminal and apron size etc.

AJ also probably knows that the delay is likely to be short lived, several weeks or so. Probably won't effect those services which weren't due to restart until April. But he needs to make headlines some how to put the pressure on, so you then get those attention grabbing comparisons.

I would even say the pressure being put on WA by airlines to open up is more due to their need to make profits in domestic interstate flying. No doubt the coffers of airlines have taken a big hit in January and upcoming in February and March. Approx 40% drop in domestic capacity, mostly due to the drop in demand from the eastern states. That's were the real money is made. They also know interstate flying in and out of WA will help restore that lost revenue.

Well said. Joyce knows full well there's more money to be made by routing direct flights to Europe through Perth instead of Darwin. Silly comparisons between WA and North Korea might grab headlines, but McGowan is unlikely to change course over such petty tantrums.

[BuzzBox]

Its interesting to note that AJ never criticises the Hong Kong regime over their border being virtually closed.
I dont agree with what is happening in WA but why doesnt he compare HK to Nth Korea! I guess its because he likes to think he is important here in oz but hasnt got a set big enough to publicly criticise the Chinese & its not too long ago he found out with the failed JQ Hong Kong fiasco just how important he is up there.

Hong Kong is a very sensitive subject in Beijing and Joyce knows that public criticism of the Chinese could damage Qantas' business into China. Have a look at what Beijing did to Cathay Pacific when that airline's leaders took a hands-off approach to staff involvement in the 2019 demonstrations in Hong Kong.

[KRviator]

FEBRUARY 21 2022 - Save the date. That is when (double vaccinated) tourists & tennis players are allowed quarantine-free entry to Victoria, NSW, Queensland, SA, Tasmania, the NT & the ACT.

Those wishing to enter The Democratic Peoples Republic of McGowanland will have to wait until until at least 2023 and will need to show proof of having had their 5th booster, a negative PCR test in the 48 hours prior to travel & agree having their movements tracked 24/7 for the first 21 days using the SafeWA app. *

Scott Morrison makes major travel announcement
Prime Minister Scott Morrison has made a major announcement on international travel following a high-level meeting.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has announced fully vaccinated travellers will be allowed back into the country from February 21.

A high-level meeting of the federal national security committee met on Monday to discuss when the border could reopen to international tourists. Under current restrictions only Australian citizens and permanent residents, their families, and those with certain visas and exemptions are allowed to enter the country. But two years after he first shuttered the borders, Mr Morrison declared double vaccinated arrivals would be welcomed back.

“If you’re double vaccinated, we look forward to welcoming you back to Australia and I know the tourism industry will be looking forward to that,” he told reporters in Canberra. Unvaccinated arrivals will still need to apply for a travel exemption and will have to provide proof they cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. Mr Morrison said the high profile deportation of Novak Djokovic should serve as a warning to those seeking to bend the rules.

“Your visa is one thing but your entry into Australia requires you also to be double vaccinated,” Mr Morrison said. “I think events earlier in the year should have sent a very clear message to everyone around the world that is the requirement to enter into Australia.”But in a twist, incoming tourists will not be required to have received a third dose of the Covid-19 vaccine, even if the nation’s expert immunisation panel expands the definition to include the booster dose.

Mr Morrison said chief medical officer Paul Kelly signed off on the double dose arrangement, given the “various arrangement” of third doses across the different countries.The announcement will come as welcome news for the tourism sector smashed by the pandemic. Asked if he could assure the sector he would not pull the rug from under them prior to the reopening, Mr Morrison indicated it was unlikely. “The fact is here in Australia, the variant is here in Australia. And for those who are coming in who are double vaccinated, they don’t present any greater risk than those who are already here in Australia,” he said.

“It's a sensible and I think very important move for us to make as we sort of, as best as we possibly can this year drive Australia back to a position of as much normality as we can achieve.” Source (https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/scott-morrison-makes-major-travel-announcement/news-story/d20b1a50a55ff735d40018c7869cc216)
*Statement may or may not be true

[Icarus2001]

This will only serve to make WA look even more backward.

I think McGowan will have to open in March.

[WingNut60]

*Statement may or may not be true
We knew that already. We saw who posted it.

[KRviator]

We knew that already. We saw who posted it.Perhaps I should run for the position of State Daddy of WA then?

Afterall, you can't believe a thing he says, either...:=

[SHVC]

This will only serve to make WA look even more backward.

I think McGowan will have to open in March.

Well I think you’re off the mark. MM saying just now there is no date, re affirming deaths are out of control referencing QLD. WA is to remain closed without a date in sight. Not even committing to a vaccination number.

He is still running with, he is the lord savior and saving lives.

[aussieflyboy]

The muppet WA State Gov are advertising on Melbourne radio (3AW and TripleM) for people to move to WA for a ‘better life’. Can’t even get in the joint and they’re spending tax payers money on rubbish ads! Common sense would say spend some money on your hospitals and reduce ambulance waiting times…

[601]

The muppet WA State Gov are advertising on Melbourne radio (3AW and TripleM) for people to move to WA for a ‘better life’. Can’t even get in the joint and they’re spending tax payers money on rubbish ads! Common sense would say spend some money on your hospitals and reduce ambulance waiting times…
Gee they have moved on in Qld. The ads are on TV.
Maybe there is no TV in Vic?

[Angle of Attack]

The so called deaths out of control in QLD is because a ****load of boomers decided not to get vaccinated or decided to resist the booster, I mean you can’t make this **** up these idiots are dying because of their own choices, they deserve to die if they haven’t taken all the precautions so far. WA is now ****ting over QLD on vaccination rates, that’s the reason right there. What else can I say? You deny, you die, it’s pretty bloody simple if your an old bastard.

[dr dre]

Well I think you’re off the mark. MM saying just now there is no date, re affirming deaths are out of control referencing QLD. WA is to remain closed without a date in sight. Not even committing to a vaccination number.


The new reduced isolation and close contact protocols were announced 10 days ago. Back then MM was saying they would only be implemented in a “very high” caseload environment.

There were 9 local cases that day, 22 the next. Today there were 26. Hardly the definition of “very high”, yet here we are.

My point being his language changes when it needs to, often on the day. The announcement of the “very high caseload environment” today was a surprise to me, I thought this step was going to come in a few weeks when cases hit the hundreds and then a reopening weeks later. So they’ve jumped ahead of the timeframe I was thinking they were going to do.

They CHO is doing a review of opening options by 4 weeks from their original delay, which is next week. One could surmise they’re implementing that reopening plan now, and should be opening by March.

[SHVC]

Well now Australia is joining the world Feb 21st, WA may as well open up.

If he does decide to open in March (optimistic) WA will have to do a full opening 0-100 because the eastern states have opened international borders it would be pointless for WA to just open domestically with restrictions and closed internationally. MM has messed this up and missed his chance to open “safely” as he calls it.

[blubak]

The so called deaths out of control in QLD is because a ****load of boomers decided not to get vaccinated or decided to resist the booster, I mean you can’t make this **** up these idiots are dying because of their own choices, they deserve to die if they haven’t taken all the precautions so far. WA is now ****ting over QLD on vaccination rates, that’s the reason right there. What else can I say? You deny, you die, it’s pretty bloody simple if your an old bastard.
It would be interesting to see how many of the deaths are of people who didnt get vaccinated but i think your analysis is pretty much spot on. The other thing that intrigues me is the people saying they are not anti vaxxers but are not getting it because its mandated. Theres lots of decisions we make or do in our lives that are based on being told by someone or some authority to do it.

[t_cas]

Lost in all this narrative is; what developments are there in actual treatment of the condition.

Regardless of vax no vax…..

An individual gets Covid, is told to isolate at home. No support or treatment advice is actually given apart from, “call an ambulance” if things go south.

Throughout this entire event. The medical profession has been hobbled by politics and bull****. At what point have doctors been left to treat patients without the fear of breaking some health directive or eco-political agend?

The overall medical outcome In this country is terrible. So many questions……

[Australopithecus]

Let me guess…Invermectin fan? Hydrochloroquine?

And WTF is an eco-political agenda?

[fl dutchman]

So, Mc Gowan is now issuing the daily Covid cases figures split into 3 categorys. Local cases, Interstate traveler cases and International arrival cases.

He is also listing the death figures from other states in his press briefings.

The highest case figures today are Interstate travelers.

Wonder if he is going to use these figures to further restrict inbound travel. Or something else on his agenda.

[Icarus2001]

The overall medical outcome In this country is terrible That is just flat out wrong. By any measure our health outcomes are some of the best in the world.
Give one example where this is not the case.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Just a thought.......

A 'Particular Problem' in WA at the mo., is that the hospitals are ALL 'understaffed', nurses and docs are run 'off their combined feet', ambulance ramping is 'rampart'.

Due to staff shortages due the Virus and 'isolations'......

So, naturally, the WA Gummint HAS TO cancel 'non urgent' surgery, and 'other treatments' so as to leave 'some beds' available for the inevitable......following the
introduction of people - yes fellow humans - back into WA ('cause they actually live here' / 'used to live here'...) BUT.....they MIGHT bring in the 'dreaded lurgy'.

So, 'we' politicians just 'close the gate'.......ZIMPLES!!! To protect our 'authority AND our jobs' of course.....WHO SAID THAT???

No names......But without an 'effective' opposition....(in WA).....WOT CAN ONE DO??

Even some business leaders are re-locating to the 'East' 'cause they reckon they cannot do business here to an adequate satisfaction.....so they say.

So, the PM opens the gates to INTL arrivals by air, and then what? Does the WA Premier say 'NYET'..??

Interesting times ahead methinks.

Cheers .....

[cessnapete]

Just a thought.......

A 'Particular Problem' in WA at the mo., is that the hospitals are ALL 'understaffed', nurses and docs are run 'off their combined feet', ambulance ramping is 'rampart'.

Due to staff shortages due the Virus and 'isolations'......

So, naturally, the WA Gummint HAS TO cancel 'non urgent' surgery, and 'other treatments' so as to leave 'some beds' available for the inevitable......following the
introduction of people - yes fellow humans - back into WA ('cause they actually live here' / 'used to live here'...) BUT.....they MIGHT bring in the 'dreaded lurgy'.

So, 'we' politicians just 'close the gate'.......ZIMPLES!!! To protect our 'authority AND our jobs' of course.....WHO SAID THAT???

No names......But without an 'effective' opposition....(in WA).....WOT CAN ONE DO??

Even some business leaders are re-locating to the 'East' 'cause they reckon they cannot do business here to an adequate satisfaction.....so they say.

So, the PM opens the gates to INTL arrivals by air, and then what? Does the WA Premier say 'NYET'..??

Interesting times ahead methinks.

Cheers .....

What is all the apparent fear about Omicron anyway in WA? All my family, and many aquantances have had it this year. No real problems. In my case 70+, nearly symptomless, perhaps a sore throat, nothing more than the usual sniffles we get in our normal UK Winter. All clear in 8 days. (Easy to check/test, as the Pharmacies have an ample supply of free Lateral Flow self test kits, and free on line from our NHS)
For the majority of the fully vaccinated, life is almost back to normal. Fortunately the prevelant C19 strain now seems to be more an inconvenience than a debilitating illness.

[ChrisJ800]

My wife and I left Tasmania last week and are now in Philippines. No issues as got a PCR covid test at Melb airport and got result in 40min. No testing or quarantining in Philippines since 1st Feb. Everyone is just getting on with things here. We do need to show our International vax printout to get into many shopping malls and banks and wear a mask indoors. There is not the atmosphere of fear that Oz pollys and media keep whipping up.

[t_cas]

Let me guess…Invermectin fan? Hydrochloroquine?

And WTF is an eco-political agenda?ecopolitics1
[ ek-oh-pol-i-tiks, ee-koh- ]SHOW IPA

noun (used with a singular verb)
the study of politics (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/politics) as influenced by economic (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/economic) power.

Apologies for the inappropriate use of the hyphen.
Why the judgement and assumption shags?

Jist pointing an observation out.

[t_cas]

That is just flat out wrong. By any measure our health outcomes are some of the best in the world.
Give one example where this is not the case.

I can understand your point of view regarding Covid. The overall outcome for the public is not very good. I am referring to the cancellation of elective (cat 3,2) surgery; the reluctance and inability to either attend or secure appointments with GP’s and specialists for general healthcare.
The real damage is that every other ailment and condition does not enter a lockdown just because of the pandemic.
There is no need for me to give you one case. If you have no one in your circle affected, then I would say you are very lucky.

[601]

****load of boomers decided not to get vaccinated
Of all the "boomers" I know, not one has not been fully vaxxed.

As to the un-vaxxed that I know, all are 40 something who think that either COVID is a conspiracy, the vaxs are experimental, because the Govt is pushing the vaxs or their health (vegan) life style will beat it.

.I am referring to the cancellation of elective (cat 3,2) surgery;
Again, I don't know of any who have had elective surgery cancelled.
The only cancellation I know of is the closing of the fracture clinic in a large regional hospital.

[WingNut60]

Of all the "boomers" I know, not one has not been fully vaxxed.


Yeah. I thought that one must have been after too many Bundys too.
I know only one boomer who is unvaxxed and he's so far into conspiracy theories that he makes Graham Hood look sane.

[t_cas]

Again, I don't know of any who have had elective surgery cancelled.
The only cancellation I know of is the closing of the fracture clinic in a large regional hospital.[/QUOTE]

This has been reported. Contact any major hospital and ask about elective surgery. It is fact.

[Icarus2001]

There is no need for me to give you one case.

So if there is no need for you to show evidence of your assertion then I will go with this...
That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.
Have a great day.

[BuzzBox]

So, Mc Gowan is now issuing the daily Covid cases figures split into 3 categorys. Local cases, Interstate traveler cases and International arrival cases.

The distinction between 'local' or 'travel-related' cases seems sensible. For example, today's (9 Feb) total was 94 cases, but only 14 of them were local. The others were either in home isolation or hotel quarantine, isolated from the community.

McGowan and Sanderson (Health Minister) have used the high number of interstate traveller cases to defend their decision to continue the quarantine requirements for travellers. According to the Health Minister: “Had we not made the decision to update our safe transition plan these people would be in our community and our locally acquired cases numbers would likely be growing rapidly.” As things stand, the number of local cases has remained relatively stable. That said, the true number of local cases might be masked by the relatively low testing rate.

[t_cas]

So if there is no need for you to show evidence of your assertion then I will go with this...
That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.
Have a great day.

Eyes wide shut.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

https://youtu.be/kkSPlmaSC1A

[SHVC]

Atagi has updated their advice on vaccine with C-19, DA of Victoria has conceded defeat with his 3 vax rule. My question what will MM of WA enforce on international travelers? As an Australian I’m required to have shots to enter WA and fulfill my employment obligations. What will the international tourist be subject to?

[BuzzBox]

Atagi has updated their advice on vaccine with C-19, DA of Victoria has conceded defeat with his 3 vax rule. My question what will MM of WA enforce on international travelers? As an Australian I’m required to have shots to enter WA and fulfill my employment obligations. What will the international tourist be subject to?

As of 8 Feb:
(a) a direct international arrival who enters Western Australia and meets both the vaccination requirements and the additional requirements must comply with the self-quarantine requirements; and

(b) a direct international arrival who enters Western Australia and does not meet both the vaccination requirements and the additional requirements must comply with the centre quarantine requirements

"Vaccination requirements" means a full course of an approved COVID-19 vaccine plus a booster vaccination. So, an international tourist who is fully vaccinated and boosted must self-quarantine at a suitable premises for 7 days (plus testing requirements). An international tourist who is fully vaccinated but not boosted must go to hotel quarantine for 14 days. Under Commonwealth rules, an international tourist (ie non-citizen/resident) who is not vaccinated will be denied entry to Australia.

https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2022-02/20220208-Consolidation-COVID-Transition-Border-Directions-No4.pdf

[SHVC]

So WA is still going full hog with this COVID thing.

[Maggie Island]

So WA is still going full hog with this COVID thing.

give em another 28 days:E

[cessnapete]

Still no information on this Omicron strain that is about to decimate WA, fill hospitals, and possible mass fatalities . And requires a China style isolation. The Omicron we have in Europe is a very mild affliction for the majority of the vaccinated.. Most of my family have had it in the New Year, and fully recovered without any serious symptoms, in 7/9 days. In my case, unless I had tested positive I would not of known I had the infection. In fact rather than further social restrictions, most are being cancelled in the next few weeks. And the UK now does not require any Testing for entry, for the fully vaccinated. .

[Transition Layer]

Has anyone checked on SOPS - are they OK? They’ve been awfully quiet on here since case numbers in WA have started to climb. Really hope the massive numbers of hospitalisations (zero) aren’t causing too much grief.

Or just maybe SOPS can’t reach the keyboard from their hiding spot under the bed.

I’m loving how this is playing out in WA. Rapidly rising case numbers, rapidly falling support for McGowan, an apathetic population refusing to get tested and a slow uptake for boosters.

You reap what you sow McClown. It’s now just a matter of days til WA rejoins the Nation. And not a moment too soon!

[WingNut60]

.......rapidly falling support for McGowan, an apathetic population refusing to get tested and a slow uptake for boosters.


Yeah, I really liked the West Australian headliner yesterday supporting your statement (above) - "One out of four West Australians oppose McGowan's continuing border policies". Or words to that effect.

Now, if one out of four = 25% then doesn't..................................???????

[Jester64]

Todays front page showed that his approval rating has reduced from 91% in September 2020, to 77% in October last year and now at 64%. I'd call that rapidly falling support.

[Chad Gates]

115 cases of community transition in WA, compared to 14 from travellers. You have far more chance of catching Covid at SOPS place, than you do from a traveller. His insistence that the borders are “working” is showing him to be a complete boofhead.

[KRviator]

Yeah, I really liked the West Australian headliner yesterday supporting your statement (above) - "One out of four West Australians oppose McGowan's continuing border policies". Or words to that effect.

Now, if one out of four = 25% then doesn't..................................???????Then there's today's headline...People’s Voice poll shows Mark McGowan’s approval rating has dropped to 64 per cent amid WA border backflip (https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/peoples-voice-poll-shows-mark-mcgowans-approval-rating-has-dropped-to-64-per-cent-amid-wa-border-backflip-c-5705369)

A nearly 30% drop in approval rating in a matter of months.I don't believe even ScoMo at his worst, or even Gladys with her bonk-buddy & ICAC problems managed to achieve such a rapid fall in their ratings.

Must be a West Australian thing....

EDIT: And just saw another report that The Pestilence has made it into the Tom Price Primary School (https://thewest.com.au/news/pilbara/tom-price-primary-school-first-school-in-north-west-to-report-a-covid-case-c-5722811)...Watch Rio Tinto throw a tanty if they have to shut down their TP, Para or Marandoo operations should it take off....

[SHVC]

If it’s up there, it has taken off. Lord Daddy will save you all haha. Ethos was always going to be the end result WA people just can’t see it.

[dr dre]

Yeah, I really liked the West Australian headliner yesterday supporting your statement (above) - "One out of four West Australians oppose McGowan's continuing border policies". Or words to that effect.

Now, if one out of four = 25% then doesn't..................................???????

I think you've confused yesterday's headlines with a snap poll taken after the border decision, when cases in the east were just coming off peak. A majority were in favour of the decision, but a majority also thought McGowan should have done more to prepare the health system. Not exactly a ringing endorsement, and after the delay seeing cases plummet over east, big events like the Australian Open fill stadiums, WA make some steps towards responding like increasing RAT supply and increasing booster uptake I think now the support for delaying reopening will have decreased.

The border will be down by early next month at the latest, probably with an announcement early next week. Given the BHP CEO said 2 days ago he wants it open McGowan will do as he is told.



I’m loving how this is playing out in WA....... a slow uptake for boosters.



Actually WA has pulled ahead (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-02/charting-australias-covid-vaccine-rollout/13197518) of all bar ACT and Tasmania on total shots, and is second placed behind ACT on boosters, and a fair bit above NSW and Queensland on boosters.

[Chad Gates]

So, nobody is signing in anyway, but if you accidentally do, the answer is “I was there for about one hour and forty five minutes”

Sweet. The testing lines just got shorter.

[KRviator]

If it’s up there, it has taken off. Lord Daddy will save you all haha. Ethos was always going to be the end result WA people just can’t see it.Of course it has. That WA seems to think they "only" have 200 cases is laughable. TP doesn't have a particularly huge FIFO population compared to other Pilbara sites either, being more geared towards residential employees, so it wont be as simple as saying "Stay in your donga" - and the majority of FIFO's that do work out of TP stay in town and go to the bottlo, Woolies, the chicken shop, mixing it up with the Resi's anyway...

So, nobody is signing in anyway, but if you accidentally do, the answer is “I was there for about one hour and forty five minutes”I'd almost forgo tonight's $80M if that pub would release their CCTV showing the State Daddy there for more than the magic 2 hours...But of course, then he couldn't come to Sydney for the defamation trial as he'd be in Iso...

[Transition Layer]

Actually WA has pulled ahead (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-02/charting-australias-covid-vaccine-rollout/13197518) of all bar ACT and Tasmania on total shots, and is second placed behind ACT on boosters, and a fair bit above NSW and Queensland on boosters.
You’re quite right. I saw these numbers myself today and was very surprised. Although it’s possibly a result of the mandate for boosters in WA being much wider reaching than many other states.

[Angle of Attack]

It’s now about to explode the case numbers indicate this. The only worry I have is the delayed border opening is going to cause a Slaughterhouse in WA aged care homes. It’s basic maths and I can’t believe the WA government doesn’t see this, Mad Max is over life is great in the East but now we are about to see a disaster in the West, what a debacle….I can’t believe they didn’t predict this, what an idiot…

[Angle of Attack]

I find it ironic that yet again the WA outbreak was from a completely flawed hotel quarantine system, Jesus 2 years and still can’t get it right. I honestly believe politicians are in general completely useless. It’s sad but true.

[BuzzBox]

I find it ironic that yet again the WA outbreak was from a completely flawed hotel quarantine system, Jesus 2 years and still can’t get it right. I honestly believe politicians are in general completely useless. It’s sad but true.

Try some basic fact checking. The current outbreak in WA did not originate from the hotel quarantine system. It started with a returned traveller who entered WA from Tasmania on 2 January, when Tasmania was considered ‘medium risk’. The traveller was only required to do 14-days of self-isolation at a suitable premises, not hotel quarantine. The returned traveller tested positive some time after arriving in WA, but in the meantime had infected a casual contact who was out and about in the community.

[Chad Gates]

The omicron outbreak started when a hotel Quarantine worker at the Pan pacific contracted it. I believe it was the next day, a security guard at the Hyatt also got omicron. It’s been bubbling along ever since. And now, it going crazy because most West Australians have had enough, and are spreading it through indifference.

[BuzzBox]

The omicron outbreak started when a hotel Quarantine worker at the Pan pacific contracted it. I believe it was the next day, a security guard at the Hyatt also got omicron. It’s been bubbling along ever since. And now, it going crazy because most West Australians have had enough, and are spreading it through indifference.

If you bothered to read the updates provided by the Health Dept, you would know the two infected workers at the quarantine hotels did NOT cause a wider outbreak. All their close contacts were traced and isolated and either tested negative or were isolated while they were infectious. Genetic testing showed the outbreak that is now starting to accelerate originated with the returned traveller from Tasmania.

[BuzzBox]

Actually WA has pulled ahead (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-02/charting-australias-covid-vaccine-rollout/13197518) of all bar ACT and Tasmania on total shots, and is second placed behind ACT on boosters, and a fair bit above NSW and Queensland on boosters.

I don't know where the ABC pulls its data, but yesterday's WA Health Dept figures show the following:

First doses: 98.6% (ages 12 and over)
Second doses: 95.1% (ages 12 and over)
Third doses: 54.3% (ages 16 and over)

The third dose rate has been increasing at a little over 1% per day. If that continues, then around 70% of those aged 16 and over will have received a booster by the end of the first week in March.

An article in today's The West Australian claims that hospital workers were told in a presentation by WA's health bosses that the health system is "preparing for a short, sharp peak in infections from mid-March". They supposedly claimed that "West Australians are so heavily vaccinated against COVID that the State’s Omicron wave will potentially peak lower than anywhere else in Australia."
https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/wa-health-bosses-say-high-rates-of-covid-vaccination-will-flatten-omicron-peak-due-next-month-c-5735237#coral_thread

[StudentInDebt]

If you bothered to read the updates provided by the Health Dept, you would know the two infected workers at the quarantine hotels did NOT cause a wider outbreak. All their close contacts were traced and isolated and either tested negative or were isolated while they were infectious. Genetic testing showed the outbreak that is now starting to accelerate originated with the returned traveller from Tasmania.You can prove anything with facts

[tossbag]

"West Australians are so heavily vaccinated against COVID that the State’s Omicron wave will potentially peak lower than anywhere else in Australia."

Good luck with that.

[Chad Gates]

Fair enough Buzz. I can’t find that, but I’ll take your word for it.

[morno]

March 3, the new February 5

[vne165]

Thank goodness...

[PoppaJo]

When’s McGowan flying to Sydney to face off Clive? Good timing hey.

[BuzzBox]

When’s McGowan flying to Sydney to face off Clive? Good timing hey.

McGowan is due to appear in court in Sydney between 26-28 Feb. He said during the press conference that he wants to avoid accusations like the one you're trying to make and he will therefore do the full 7 days of self-isolation at a hotel on his return from Sydney.

[Maggie Island]

As good old George W once said after trapping on a carrier “mission accomplished”. Mods I think it’s time to put this thread out to pasture (along with the last two years…)

[KRviator]

March 3, the new February 5Which year???

[Chronic Snoozer]

Which year???

This year, 2002.

[aussieflyboy]

McGowan better bring a fresh shirt if flying commercially. I’ve heard there’s quite a substantial cash prize for the first cabin crew to nail him with a ‘spilled’ coffee.

[vne165]

Aussie - where can I donate?

[Turnleft080]

Which year???
Funny you should say that. My dads record collection contains a 7 inch vinyl single released by RCA records of Zager & Evans "In the year 2525". When someone mentions WA or MM, I think of that one hit wonder. It's in my head.

[morno]

Which year???

Lets not be too specific :E

[SHVC]

Welcome back to the West! Headline in todays Australian. Should be The West rejoins Australia and the world. Bunch of muppets that government is.

[KRviator]

Question is - how many people are going to be willing to risk it, given McGowan's proclivity for shutting the border mid-flight, or changing the date that was "Locked in"...

Apart from immediate family and interstate FIFO crew going to work, I don't think the tourist market will rebound as quickly as they're hoping, and as a tourist, there's not much in WA that I cannot get elsewhere in Oz, that doesn't have the risk of a disrupted holiday.

[minigundiplomat]

Question is - how many people are going to be willing to risk it, given McGowan's proclivity for shutting the border mid-flight, or changing the date that was "Locked in"...

Apart from immediate family and interstate FIFO crew going to work, I don't think the tourist market will rebound as quickly as they're hoping, and as a tourist, there's not much in WA that I cannot get elsewhere in Oz, that doesn't have the risk of a disrupted holiday.

i don’t disagree - but if you’re heading to Qld in lieu of WA, remember Palachook was open and closed like a bedside drawer in a brothel until recently…..

peoples memories are shorter than we expect.

[airdualbleedfault]

i don’t disagree - but if you’re heading to Qld in lieu of WA, remember Palachook was open and closed like a bedside drawer in a brothel until recently…..

peoples memories are shorter than we expect.
Indeed they have , apparently Mcclown still has a 64% approval rating, they ain't too bright over there :}

[Jester64]

Indeed they have , apparently Mcclown still has a 64% approval rating, they ain't too bright over there :}

Meaning they approve whatever he says and does. A lot of people took this as two-thirds actually wanted the borders to stay closed - which wasn’t what the surveys / polls were asking, they simply agreed with his decision, but the majority of us wanted it open at some point in the near future, because two-thirds of them agreed with him for a 05FEB reopening right until the point he back-flipped, then they agreed with his back-flip.

Anyhow bring on the reopening and the increase in recruitment activity that we can see happening amongst the QF group. I’ve been lucky, wish the same for others.

[BuzzBox]

...because two-thirds of them agreed with him for a 05FEB reopening right until the point he back-flipped, then they agreed with his back-flip.

It is a fallacy that two-thirds agreed with the 5 February reopening right up until the point he back-flipped. The truth is that we simply don't know, because the only poll on the subject took place on 21 December, a month before McGowan deferred the reopening. At the time of that poll, the effect of Omicron on the Eastern States was not apparent. Another poll that was taken a few days after the so-called 'backflip' found that some 71% of respondents agreed with the decision. The best we can say is that a lot of people changed their mind about reopening some time over the course of the month between the first and second polls.

The insinuation that West Australians are a bunch of lemmings who hang off McGowan's every word is quite simply wrong and, frankly, offensive.

[Jester64]

It is a fallacy that two-thirds agreed with the 5 February reopening right up until the point he back-flipped. The truth is that we simply don't know, because the only poll on the subject took place on 21 December, a month before McGowan deferred the reopening. At the time of that poll, the effect of Omicron on the Eastern States was not apparent. Another poll that was taken a few days after the so-called 'backflip' found that some 71% of respondents agreed with the decision. The best we can say is that a lot of people changed their mind about reopening some time over the course of the month between the first and second polls.

The insinuation that West Australians are a bunch of lemmings who hang off McGowan's every word is quite simply wrong and, frankly, offensive.

There were more polls and surveys done other than what was published on the front page of the West Australian. Can’t recall the date of them but they were with reference to the 05FEB reopening.

Apologies, I didn’t mean to cause offence but it’s just my opinion that a huge cross-section of the community do trust and hang onto every word he says. I’m a West Aussie and I’ve seen it amongst those around me.

[BuzzBox]

There were more polls and surveys done other than what was published on the front page of the West Australian. Can’t recall the date of them but they were with reference to the 05FEB reopening.

Apologies, I didn’t mean to cause offence but it’s just my opinion that a huge cross-section of the community do trust and hang onto every word he says. I’m a West Aussie and I’ve seen it amongst those around me.

I'd be interested to see these other 'polls and surveys'. I did find another poll reported in The West Australian on 8 January. That poll found that 40% of respondents were in favour of reopening, 40% opposed and 20% unsure. That's a massive drop in support from the 21 December poll and it seems clear to me that public opinion was changing well before McGowan deferred the reopening.

[Jester64]

I'd be interested to see these other 'polls and surveys'. I did find another poll reported in The West Australian on 8 January. That poll found that 40% of respondents were in favour of reopening, 40% opposed and 20% unsure. That's a massive drop in support from the 21 December poll and it seems clear to me that public opinion was changing well before McGowan deferred the reopening.

So just over one-third disagreed according to that published poll. Anyhow, borders are fully opened Australia wide for domestic and international travel come 03MAR. Great news for our industry right? Signing off this thread before I get banned again :{

[SRFred]

Anyhow, borders are fully opened Australia wide for domestic and international travel come 03MAR. Great news for our industry right? Signing off this thread before I get banned again :{

No, WA still requires G2G permits if approved for you, Australians must be triple jabbed but overseas people only double jabed. It is a sick joke!

[SHVC]

International is finally open today bring much needed tourist dollar for our industry. The embarrassment that Australia is continues, tourist get off their plane and walk into an empty train station as these drivers hold our state to ransom again.

[MikeHatter732]

The embarrassment that Australia is continues, tourist get off their plane and walk into an empty train station as these drivers hold our state to ransom again.

Maybe you should do some research on what actually is causing the stop work today (does a think called lockout ring a bell), rather than carrying on with your typical anti-union malarkey.

[cLeArIcE]

Maybe you should do some research on what actually is causing the stop work today (does a think called lockout ring a bell), rather than carrying on with your typical anti-union malarkey.
100% this. Someone in the NSW government been on the phone to AJ for advice?

[KRviator]

International is finally open today bring much needed tourist dollar for our industry. The embarrassment that Australia is continues, tourist get off their plane and walk into an empty train station as these drivers hold our state to ransom again.UUhh, yeah nah.

Thousands of ST crew (not just Driver's, but Guards, PSS's and CSA's too, they're all covered by the same EA) are at their depot's, signed on and ready, willing and able to work a train. Transport for NSW unilaterally cancelled every service today after losing a pair of court cases for PIA over the weekend, that allowed Sydney Trains crews to enforce a "work to published roster" arrangement and decline any service alterations.

The Union & ST argued in court for and against the PIA, ST lost and rather than accommodate their loss and still run services, even at a reduced frequency, spat the dummy and cancelled everything a'la AJ a few years ago.

You'll note the early headlines referred to it as a "strike", this ain't the case, and now the headlines, from the Daily Mail through to News.Com.Au & the ABC are starting to tell it like it is - a TfNSW decision to cancel the trains, not a "strike" or Industrial Action...

[MikeHatter732]

UUhh, yeah nah.

Thousands of ST crew (not just Driver's, but Guards, PSS's and CSA's too, they're all covered by the same EA) are at their depot's, signed on and ready, willing and able to work a train. Transport for NSW unilaterally cancelled every service today after losing a pair of court cases for PIA over the weekend, that allowed Sydney Trains crews to enforce a "work to published roster" arrangement and decline any service alterations.

The Union & ST argued in court for and against the PIA, ST lost and rather than accommodate their loss and still run services, even at a reduced frequency, spat the dummy and cancelled everything a'la AJ a few years ago.

You'll note the early headlines referred to it as a "strike", this ain't the case, and now the headlines, from the Daily Mail through to News.Com.Au & the ABC are starting to tell it like it is - a TfNSW decision to cancel the trains, not a "strike" or Industrial Action...

SHVC was clearly having his morning coffee watching Sky news.

[Ladloy]

SHVC was clearly having his morning coffee watching Sky news.
Boomer Breakfast

[unobtanium]

International is finally open today bring much needed tourist dollar for our industry. The embarrassment that Australia is continues, tourist get off their plane and walk into an empty train station as these drivers hold our state to ransom again.

The embarassment starts the minute they land into a disgrace of an airport, then get barked at by border force goons (WE SPEAK ENGLISH HERE), after finally picking up what remains of their bag, join the 200m long bag search que, then finally get out of the terminal and get immediately robbed by dodgy limo drivers or overpriced train tickets.

[morno]

The embarassment starts the minute they land into a disgrace of an airport, then get barked at by border force goons (WE SPEAK ENGLISH HERE), after finally picking up what remains of their bag, join the 200m long bag search que, then finally get out of the terminal and get immediately robbed by dodgy limo drivers or overpriced train tickets.

It’s easier and less robbery at a third world Asian country

[blubak]

UUhh, yeah nah.

Thousands of ST crew (not just Driver's, but Guards, PSS's and CSA's too, they're all covered by the same EA) are at their depot's, signed on and ready, willing and able to work a train. Transport for NSW unilaterally cancelled every service today after losing a pair of court cases for PIA over the weekend, that allowed Sydney Trains crews to enforce a "work to published roster" arrangement and decline any service alterations.

The Union & ST argued in court for and against the PIA, ST lost and rather than accommodate their loss and still run services, even at a reduced frequency, spat the dummy and cancelled everything a'la AJ a few years ago.

You'll note the early headlines referred to it as a "strike", this ain't the case, and now the headlines, from the Daily Mail through to News.Com.Au & the ABC are starting to tell it like it is - a TfNSW decision to cancel the trains, not a "strike" or Industrial Action...
I would have thought that working to a published roster was exactly what syd trains would be expecting of their employees.
If suddenly syd trains didnt like the roster they had published,maybe they should be looking at their rostering dept for an answer-its not up to the employees to point out the anamolies in a roster.
Bit like an airline CEO suddenly deciding he doesnt like the conditions in an EA that has been in existence for quite a period of time & has either his signature or an authorised officer of his airline's signature on it when it was agreed to.

[KRviator]

I would have thought that working to a published roster was exactly what syd trains would be expecting of their employees.Getting quite off topic but....

On the contrary, ST publishes a "Master Roster" for each depot, that has dozens of different lines on it, each line corresponds to an individual driver, and tells them what specific job they'll be doing each day, so the Driver can roughly plan their lives, as each specific job has details of each train they'll drive throughout the shift. What ST has been doing - due to chronic understaffing - is swapping driver's jobs between them, or requiring a, say, Sydney Central driver to cover Hornsby working, and in turn, stuffing them around by getting them home later than their (original, Central) roster said. The other problem that is ongoing is the rostering of Driver's to repeatedly work on their RDO's and getting peeved when they refuse. This is the norm, rather than the exception and is solely due to ST not having enough staff, to the point they're basically running the network on the goodwill of the crew doing overtime.

A rough corollary would be rocking up to work a nice 0900-1700 day flying Syd-Bne-Mel-Syd triangle and being told "Oh, the previous crew booked off sick, and we're still short over west, so now you're doing Syd-Drw-Per-Kta-Per-Kta-Per-Syd and getting home god knows when. CityRail had this very same issue back in 2004 when crews got jack of working continuous OT and said "Enough's enough. Family time is more important!" and the network virtually collapsed then too. Everything old is new again...

The other point the union is making regards the new NIF Mariyung trains (https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/current-projects/mariyung-fleet) and the ST dream to have them setup as Driver-Only-Operation, with no Guards on board, and the associated job losses. I've worked DOO freighters for 12 years and wouldn't wish DOO working in the Sydney Metro passsenger network on anyone. Yes, I know it can be done, but I firmly believe it shouldn't be done...Driver-Only working, especially on freighters, is quite enjoyable if you're a bit introverted but the way in which ST (and Metro in Melbourne) want it to be done is not as safe as having a Guard on board, no matter what the Transport Minister says...

[Lead Balloon]

But surely train drivers are like plane drivers. Just turn up whenever told at short notice, drive the train (plane) wherever told at short notice, be responsible for the management of the safety of all of the passengers for 10 plus hours, shut down and peel off home and relax. How hard could it be?

[KRviator]

But surely train drivers are like plane drivers. Just turn up whenever told at short notice, drive the train (plane) wherever told at short notice, be responsible for the management of the safety of all of the passengers for 10 plus hours, shut down and peel off home and relax. How hard could it be?You'd be surprised, but it's actually not like that for the most part. Some shifts ("Local Relief" or "Standby" types) yes, but they're the exception rather than the rule.

The job itself is not "hard" per se' and you can be re-tasked if your originally-assigned train is cancelled, but "forecast rosters" are something that has been (very) hard fought for in various depots over time and they are a major selling point for companies in attracting and retaining crew. Ie Your Master Roster has you doing Shift pattern "Central-05A"and the actual working of "Central-05A" may be "All stations to Penriff, then All stations to North-Sydney & have crib. Pick up next train at North Sydney and work all stations to Berowra then all stations to Central & signoff at time xx:xx." You know your signon time, your distance travelled (as you can get km-based payments if you work over X km's) and your signoff time down to the minute (if everything works normally). An actual Sydney Trains job diagram is shown in this video at the 15s mark. Apparently I can't just link it, it shows the actual preview instead of the BBcode text...:ugh:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poxoz4MIilA&t=15s

Some depots have what is known as "Blank line" or "Pencil" working, where you know your RDO's and that is it. You don't know what you're doing tomorrow until you sign off today and the working is almost exactly as you describe. ie my old signoff phone call would be "Cheers, KR, got you off at 1600, job for tomorrow is 0300 on, work train 1535 to Walgett and load." Other depots have specific rostered sign-on times(and usually signoff as well, when things are running well) for the typical working of that depot (usually container & passenger trains) as they run to a timetable. Blank line working, though, is shyte. You can't plan a damn thing, fatigue is a major problem and consequently so is retention, so some companies actively market their forecast rosters in their job ads, like PN do here. (https://www.seek.com.au/job/55928782)

The ST problem they have created for themselves through lack of recruitment, is twofold. One is the ongoing requirement to have crews work on their RDO's just to run a 'normal' timetable and the other is the constant changing of roster's (with the attendant changes in signon/signoff times) to try to cover the normal timetable (or services they deem a priority) without sufficient crew to do so.

[SOPS]

You'd be surprised, but it's actually not like that for the most part. Some shifts ("Local Relief" or "Standby" types) yes, but they're the exception rather than the rule.

The job itself is not "hard" per se' and you can be re-tasked if your originally-assigned train is cancelled, but "forecast rosters" are something that has been (very) hard fought for in various depots over time and they are a major selling point for companies in attracting and retaining crew. Ie Your Master Roster has you doing Shift pattern "Central-05A"and the actual working of "Central-05A" may be "All stations to Penriff, then All stations to North-Sydney & have crib. Pick up next train at North Sydney and work all stations to Berowra then all stations to Central & signoff at time xx:xx." You know your signon time, your distance travelled (as you can get km-based payments if you work over X km's) and your signoff time down to the minute (if everything works normally). An actual Sydney Trains job diagram is shown in this video at the 15s mark. Apparently I can't just link it, it shows the actual preview instead of the BBcode text...:ugh:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poxoz4MIilA&t=15s

Some depots have what is known as "Blank line" or "Pencil" working, where you know your RDO's and that is it. You don't know what you're doing tomorrow until you sign off today and the working is almost exactly as you describe. ie my old signoff phone call would be "Cheers, KR, got you off at 1600, job for tomorrow is 0300 on, work train 1535 to Walgett and load." Other depots have specific rostered sign-on times(and usually signoff as well, when things are running well) for the typical working of that depot (usually container & passenger trains) as they run to a timetable. Blank line working, though, is shyte. You can't plan a damn thing, fatigue is a major problem and consequently so is retention, so some companies actively market their forecast rosters in their job ads, like PN do here. (https://www.seek.com.au/job/55928782)

The ST problem they have created for themselves through lack of recruitment, is twofold. One is the ongoing requirement to have crews work on their RDO's just to run a 'normal' timetable and the other is the constant changing of roster's (with the attendant changes in signon/signoff times) to try to cover the normal timetable (or services they deem a priority) without sufficient crew to do so.

We have our rosters 5 weeks ahead. You can basically see what shifts you have from the “guide rosters”, 2 years ahead. If I could be bothered, I can see my RDOs, 3 years ahead. RDOs are set in concrete and can’t be touched. Sign off time is sign off time.. incase of a major disruption and you go past sign off time.. you are straight into overtime. ( so usually the will get you “off traffic’ to avoid this.)

[Fairdealfrank]

Thousands of ST crew (not just Driver's, but Guards, PSS's and CSA's too, they're all covered by the same EA) are at their depot's, signed on and ready, willing and able to work a train. Transport for NSW unilaterally cancelled every service today after losing a pair of court cases for PIA over the weekend, that allowed Sydney Trains crews to enforce a "work to published roster" arrangement and decline any service alterations.

What's with all the initials?!

Need to explain/write it out in full as many on PPRUNE are not in the rail industry and/or not Australian.

[dr dre]

Well there it is.

642 days later (and 9600+ posts, a forum record I believe) the title of this thread has finally come to fruition.

[vne165]

And not a moment too soon.
The irony of re-opening just as cases peak seems to be lost on many.

McGowan's support appears to have declined significantly over the last few months.
Will be interesting to see where it goes form here.

[Chad Gates]

And the funny thing is, even with thousands (at least soon to be) of cases, life here is still pretty much normal. Not "lockdown like conditions" as MM and his cronies (and memebers of this forum) liked to tell us. Even MM acknowledged last night the their were other "consequences" of the closed border. It's now time to move on. Many Labor Backbenchers will lose their seats in the next election as the Libs who voted Labor to "reward" MM will all flow back, and we can return to a functioning democracy in WA. Hooray!

[BuzzBox]

The irony of re-opening just as cases peak seems to be lost on many.

No, the irony is that some people don't understand that it made little sense to keep the border closed once Covid got in and case numbers started increasing, which is precisely why the border has now been reopened.

[BuzzBox]

And the funny thing is, even with thousands (at least soon to be) of cases, life here is still pretty much normal. Not "lockdown like conditions" as MM and his cronies (and memebers of this forum) liked to tell us.
Maybe that's because WA now has one of the highest vaccination rates in Australia, and because of the restrictions and changes to close contact definitions, isolation rules, etc that were introduced as soon as case numbers started to increase? Other states didn't do that until well after case numbers exploded, by which time it was all a bit late. The whole point of McGowan's approach is to slow the spread and prevent a repeat of the situation that occurred in NSW and Victoria as case numbers peaked. Time will tell, but so far it seems to be working. Omicron first entered WA in early January and it's taken two months for cases to start rapidly increasing. Compare that to NSW, where cases exploded within several weeks.

Many Labor Backbenchers will lose their seats in the next election as the Libs who voted Labor to "reward" MM will all flow back, and we can return to a functioning democracy in WA.
I certainly look forward to more balance within WA's parliament, but I somehow doubt that "all" the seats will flow back to the LNP by the next election. The Libs in particular were decimated and it will take years for them to rebuild their brand in WA. As things stand, they are a basket case and their few elected representatives utterly ineffective at getting any kind of message across.

[Potsie Weber]

Now it is just the utter stupidity of the level 2 restrictions that WA has to deal with. 30,000 allowed to go to Optus stadium, but grandad can’t go watch kids play community sport at local oval. 150 limit for pubs, the Camfield equates that to one person per 23sqm. 10 people max in your backyard for a bbq. Year 3 kids in masks despite worldwide evidence that masks for young kids are useless, they constantly fiddle with them and don’t wear them properly. If you are unvaxxed, even an unvaxxed West Australian, the only way you can come to WA is via internationally.

if this is all based on the CHO’s health advice, then it’s time WA got a new CHO, the guy is nuts.

[tossbag]

if this is all based on the CHO’s health advice, then it’s time WA got a new CHO, the guy is nuts.

It's remarkable the difference between a hysterical, fear mongering, non practicing medical doctor, puppet of the politician, Jeannette Young (QLD) to the CHO now, Dr John Gerrard, practicing and qualified. Apparently he's able to interpret 'the science' in a practical and sensible way. There'll be no governorship for him!

[BuzzBox]

Now it is just the utter stupidity of the level 2 restrictions that WA has to deal with. 30,000 allowed to go to Optus stadium, but grandad can’t go watch kids play community sport at local oval. 150 limit for pubs, the Camfield equates that to one person per 23sqm. 10 people max in your backyard for a bbq. Year 3 kids in masks despite worldwide evidence that masks for young kids are useless, they constantly fiddle with them and don’t wear them properly. If you are unvaxxed, even an unvaxxed West Australian, the only way you can come to WA is via internationally.

if this is all based on the CHO’s health advice, then it’s time WA got a new CHO, the guy is nuts.

Perhaps try reading the CHO's advice, before throwing brickbats?
TRANSITION TO LEVEL 2 PUBLIC HEALTH AND SOCIAL MEASURES (https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2022-02/CHO-HA-28022022.pdf)

[vne165]

Thanks Buzz, that's helpful.
What was the date of WA's first day of this outbreak?

[Chad Gates]

Reading the health advice doesn’t change the inconsistencies the community see in the new rules. You may disagree with everything everybody else says Buzz, but that doesn’t make you right. The community are rightly asking questions about the insanity of the inconsistencies. I won’t continue with the politics I earlier mentioned, but I disagree with you.

[BuzzBox]

Thanks Buzz, that's helpful.
What was the date of WA's first day of this outbreak?

The index case was a returned traveller from Tasmania who, as I recall, entered WA on 2 January. The first local transmission occurred less than a week later.

[BuzzBox]

Reading the health advice doesn’t change the inconsistencies the community see in the new rules. You may disagree with everything everybody else says Buzz, but that doesn’t make you right. The community are rightly asking questions about the insanity of the inconsistencies. I won’t continue with the politics I earlier mentioned, but I disagree with you.

Disagree with me about what, in particular? I didn't say there weren't inconsistencies in the restrictions and even McGowan has admitted as much.

[vne165]

The index case was a returned traveller from Tasmania who, as I recall, entered WA on 2 January. The first local transmission occurred less than a week later.

So we are approximately 55 days then.
If I understand the modelling correctly, shouldn't we be at 400 hospitalisations under the most optimistic scenario with Level 2 restrictions in place early enough?

[BuzzBox]

So we are approximately 55 days then.
If I understand the modelling correctly, shouldn't we be at 400 hospitalisations under the most optimistic scenario with Level 2 restrictions in place early enough?

Possibly, but the most optimistic scenario also shows peak hospitalisations about 55 days from '0' and we're clearly nowhere near the peak. It's not entirely clear what '0' actually represents; is it the day of the first local transmission, or something else?

In any case, the accuracy of the modelling obviously depends on a lot of assumptions that might not eventuate. The Dept of Health's Omicron modelling (https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2022-02/20220223WA-Health-COVID-Modelling_0.pdf) also states the following:
...it is anticipated that these are conservative estimates and, as result of the WA population being significantly more vaccinated than other Australian jurisdictions and other nations when the outbreak commenced, the actual effect may be lower cases and bed requirements.

[KRviator]

You'd want to hope their hospital system can handle it, because to an outsider, it sure as hell looks like they've got problems as it is!

I don't think any graph I've seen since this whole thing kicked off explains his absolute terror of Covid in WA as well as this one does...And remember - this is without a Covid impact on the WA health system...He must be such a proud State Daddy, overseeing a near 20-fold increase in ambulance ramping since he took office.:yuk:
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/747x437/capture_f17f8f1438fd15ef9d2ed52deffc9812352604e8.jpg

[BuzzBox]

You'd want to hope their hospital system can handle it, because to an outsider, it sure as hell looks like they've got problems as it is!

I don't think any graph I've seen since this whole thing kicked off explains his absolute terror of Covid in WA as well as this one does...And remember - this is without a Covid impact on the WA health system...He must be such a proud State Daddy, overseeing a near 20-fold increase in ambulance ramping since he took office.:yuk:

The claim that ambulance ramping has increased "near 20-fold" is somewhat misleading, given the large variation in the data from month-to-month. The highest monthly ramping figure is certainly about 20 times the lowest figure, but that 'high score' only occurred once. That said, ambulance ramping has significantly increased since early 2017. The WA Liberal Party analysed the ramping data using the total annual ramping hours. On that basis, ramping increased from a total of 9819 hours in 2017, to 52,435 hours in 2021; over a five-fold increase. https://www.waliberal.org.au/state-news/libby-mettam/annual-ambulance-ramping-figures-more-than-double-in-2021/

[vne165]

Day 56 of the Omicron scarient , cases hospitalised dropped by 1 to a grand total of 21.
A total of 2,137 new infections recorded. No ICU admissions, no further fatalities.
Hospitals not in meltdown yet.

[Chronic Snoozer]

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/watch-live-health-minister-amber-jade-sanderson-to-provide-covid-19-update-20220310-p5a3hd.html

18000+ cases in WA, just 80 in hospital, none on ventilators. None of this is fascinating except that 50% of those in hospital are unvaccinated.

[Ladloy]

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/watch-live-health-minister-amber-jade-sanderson-to-provide-covid-19-update-20220310-p5a3hd.html

18000+ cases in WA, just 80 in hospital, none on ventilators. None of this is fascinating except that 50% of those in hospital are unvaccinated.
That is fascinating and differs from other states in terms of vax and unvax ratios

[vne165]

They are forecasting the peak in cases within the next week, hospitalisations peak a week or ten days later.
Just seems nothing like watching what happened in the East in recent times.
It's been a very hot summer, record breaking actually.
Lot's of folks here suspect that may be playing a part in the low overall numbers.

[Transition Layer]

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/watch-live-health-minister-amber-jade-sanderson-to-provide-covid-19-update-20220310-p5a3hd.html

18000+ cases in WA, just 80 in hospital, none on ventilators. None of this is fascinating except that 50% of those in hospital are unvaccinated.
Could it be that unvaccinated even with mild symptoms are being hospitalised out of precaution due to their vaccination status?

[BuzzBox]

Could it be that unvaccinated even with mild symptoms are being hospitalised out of precaution due to their vaccination status?

No, they're being hospitalised because they are seriously ill and need that level of care. Less than two per cent of WA's population is unvaccinated, yet that cohort accounts for around half the hospital admissions to date.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Total and complete scare mongering....... Those numbers in hospital are statistically insignificant. I still can't get my head around why, vaccinated folk are so paranoid and scared to associate with unvaccinated folk.

[Bend alot]

Hospitals are also used to isolate people that can not do it where they live - like people from aged care with mild symptoms.

I did not hear the vax status of the last 2 deaths in WA.

They normally get shouted out under 1 condition/status.

WA is said to have BA2 variant of about 50% (it has been in Australia since Jan contrary to the news report yesterday).

[Ladloy]

Hospitals are also used to isolate people that can not do it where they live - like people from aged care with mild symptoms.

I did not hear the vax status of the last 2 deaths in WA.

They normally get shouted out under 1 condition/status.

WA is said to have BA2 variant of about 50% (it has been in Australia since Jan contrary to the news report yesterday).
Unless nsw and vic do it differently to WA, I have never heard of mild cases in hospitals to prevent spread.

[ChrisJ800]

I moved from Oz to Philippines 5 weeks ago. Best move I ever did. Everyone is getting on with life here. Need to wear masks even outside but bars are all open!

[Chronic Snoozer]

Total and complete scare mongering....... Those numbers in hospital are statistically insignificant. I still can't get my head around why, vaccinated folk are so paranoid and scared to associate with unvaccinated folk.

What scaremongering and who's paranoid? They're just statistics.

[Turnleft080]

Total and complete scare mongering....... Those numbers in hospital are statistically insignificant. I still can't get my head around why, vaccinated folk are so paranoid and scared to associate with unvaccinated folk.
Speaking of the unvaxed, US airlines will bringing back unvaxed staff. That will be a bit of ammunition for the folk at QF & VA that are taking on their unfair dismissal cases.

https://tickernews.co/airline-company-to-allow-unvaccinated-employees-back-to-work/

[SHVC]

No not really! America is another country. What goes on there is no precedence for what goes on here.

[43Inches]

Employees that were placed on unpaid leave last year because they were unvaccinated against COVID-19, due to a medical or religious exemption will now be able to return to work

That seems to imply that only those that were put on leave with exemptions will be welcomed back, not those that chose not to be vaccinated.

I moved from Oz to Philippines 5 weeks ago. Best move I ever did. Everyone is getting on with life here. Need to wear masks even outside but bars are all open!

Hope that's just a raz up, good luck if you get sick of anything, or are you maintaining your Aussie citizenship so you can evac back to safety on our taxes when your expedition goes awry? There are downsides to the third world you know, like random cities there being held by Islamic extremists etc... hope that's better than not being able to go to a pub, however not sure where that is in Australia at present. I went to the pub yesterday for a meal and drink, sans mask.

I also enjoyed my drink without the threat of a terrorist bombing me or being taken hostage for being foreign looking to be used as a bargaining chip.

Reconsider travel to the Philippines due to COVID-19. Additionally, exercise increased caution due to crime, terrorism, civil unrest, and kidnapping. Read the entire Travel Advisory.

That's the current travel warning for the Philippines. BTW I didn't even think of Covid while enjoying my meal, let alone being in danger. I don't think there's even a place I eat/drink at in Melbourne or Sydney where I even worry about my wallet being stolen.

[Bend alot]

Unless nsw and vic do it differently to WA, I have never heard of mild cases in hospitals to prevent spread.
You can not even get what Health advice is based on from NSW or QLD - so you hear nothing for or "against" my friend.

SA, well they got some info FOI - and no delay cops back to work.

The Health Advice was brilliant - take a look.

[43Inches]

Aged care in Victoria/NSW will isolate you in your room with covid or close contact, unless you are very high risk, then you will be moved to hospital to be monitored so if you deteriorate you can get the highest level of medical care quickly if needed. The hospital is not used as a quarantine facility.

[Wizofoz]

What scaremongering and who's paranoid? They're just statistics.

Rex is scared of statistics that don't fit his narrative.

[KRviator]

What scaremongering and who's paranoid? They're just statistics.You only have to look at the narrative from McGowan or his CHO as regards NSW or Victoria.

"Lockdown like conditions (https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/lockdownlike-conditions-heap-pressure-on-businesses-across-australia/news-story/a9e77fcf06e31ec31c99a69e074a3202)" (because we have to wear a mask indoors, and check in - big woop), "Thousands and thousands of deaths I want to avoid (https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/state-of-uncertainty-coming-to-terms-with-covid-19-in-wa-20220126-p59rhf.html)" (While neglecting to mention 48.6% of all returning Australian's came home via Sydney after he wimped out on his agreed "1000 a week", and halved it, then halved it again to only 256). "By watching NSW you can see what works and what doesn’t work. " (Guess bringing home so many people for the good of the nation "doesn't work", eh...

I could go on, but really, what's the point? If you cannot accept that such things have been happening for the last two years, then nothing I say will change your mind...

[WingNut60]

........................."Thousands and thousands of deaths I want to avoid" .........................Location Cases Deaths

New South Wales 1.45M 1,975

Victoria 1.12M 2,640

Western Australia 39,226 12 13

Yep, obviously a rabid propagandist
I'm glad I'm not your grandmother

I could go on, but really, what's the point? .................
And yet you do?

[Chronic Snoozer]

You only have to look at the narrative from McGowan or his CHO as regards NSW or Victoria.

"Lockdown like conditions (https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/lockdownlike-conditions-heap-pressure-on-businesses-across-australia/news-story/a9e77fcf06e31ec31c99a69e074a3202)" (because we have to wear a mask indoors, and check in - big woop), "Thousands and thousands of deaths I want to avoid (https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/state-of-uncertainty-coming-to-terms-with-covid-19-in-wa-20220126-p59rhf.html)" (While neglecting to mention 48.6% of all returning Australian's came home via Sydney after he wimped out on his agreed "1000 a week", and halved it, then halved it again to only 256). "By watching NSW you can see what works and what doesn’t work. " (Guess bringing home so many people for the good of the nation "doesn't work", eh...

I could go on, but really, what's the point? If you cannot accept that such things have been happening for the last two years, then nothing I say will change your mind...

I wasn't looking at any narrative and certainly don't look to politicians for narrative. What do the numbers tell us? Well, back of the fag packet calculations tell me that if you are unvaccinated there is a 30-40 times greater chance of contracting COVID and ending up in hospital, based on the numbers quoted in that article. Seems like a good thing nearly 95% of WA is vaccinated.

I also find the WA CHO's letter outlining his recommendations for applying restrictions pre and post border opening to be clear and logical. Seems like things are turning out as projected or better.

https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2022-01/CHO_HA_190122.pdf

You can object to the manner in which the outcome is reached however my point was really the outcome.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/044/247/297.png

[MLKNWL]

Hope other countries could open their border soon, such as China, otherwise, economics will be a problem. also, slow down the development of the aviation industry.

[Eclan]

That seems to imply that only those that were put on leave with exemptions will be welcomed back, not those that chose not to be vaccinated.
Everyone. Discrimination on medical status is not allowed. Well, not unless the gov and courts think it's okay just this time. Anyone here see the irony and the cause for concern in that? Probably not.

Hope that's just a raz up, good luck if you get sick of anything, or are you maintaining your Aussie citizenship so you can evac back to safety on our taxes when your expedition goes awry?
Jesus, man, he only moved not long ago and I'm sure before that he had a lifetime of paying taxes, maybe even more than you, so I think we can allow him a little leeway. I'd rather pay his way back home than the filth the ALP have, on our behalf, recently deemed welcome back in this country from Syria.

There are downsides to the third world you know, like random cities there being held by Islamic extremists etc... hope that's better than not being able to go to a pub, however not sure where that is in Australia at present.
Cities held by islamic extremist? Entire cities? Are you talking about the Phillipines or Afghanistan?

I went to the pub yesterday for a meal and drink, sans mask. I also enjoyed my drink without the threat of a terrorist bombing me or being taken hostage for being foreign looking to be used as a bargaining chip.You missed the Lindt seige but I suppose that was relatively small-scale (unless you were one of the dead). But I get your point, not as much terrorism here. Yet. Here's a list so far:

Sydney Yugoslav General Trade and Tourist
Agency bombing (1972) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Yugoslav_General_Trade_and_Tourist_Agency_bombing)
Sydney Hilton bombing (1978) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Hilton_Hotel_bombing)
Sydney Israeli consulate and Hakoah Club
bombings (1982) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Israeli_Consulate_and_Hakoah_Club_bombings)
Russell Street bombing (1986) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Street_bombing)
Turkish consulate bombing (1986) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_Turkish_consulate_bombing_in_Melbourne)
French consulate bombing (1995) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_French_consulate_bombing_in_Perth)
Endeavour Hills stabbings (2014) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Endeavour_Hills_stabbings)
Lindt Cafe siege (2014)
Parramatta shooting (2015) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Parramatta_shooting)
Queanbeyan stabbing attacks (2017) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Queanbeyan_stabbing_attacks)
Brighton siege (2017) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Brighton_siege)
Mill Park stabbing (2018) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Australia#Mill_Park_stabbing_(February_2018))
Melbourne stabbing attack (2018) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Melbourne_stabbing_attack)

I didn't even think of Covid while enjoying my meal
It's disturbing that you even need to mention that and smacks of Stockholm Syndrome which is alive and well especially down there in Victoria where the dictator will likely be voted back in soon.

I don't think there's even a place I eat/drink at in Melbourne or Sydney where I even worry about my wallet being stolen.
Not yet but it's coming. The next generation will be dealing with it though and cursing some of the decisions of this and earlier gens.

[43Inches]

Cities held by islamic extremist? Entire cities? Are you talking about the Phillipines or Afghanistan?

Suggest you read the news more and look up what happened in Marawi in the Phillipines before posting. Then there's just the murders and killings committed by the government to curb the drug problems, or opposition parties, depending on who you talk to.

You missed the Lindt seige but I suppose that was relatively small-scale (unless you were one of the dead). But I get your point, not as much terrorism here. Yet. Here's a list so far:

Sieges by mentally disturbed individuals happen everywhere, these are terrorist attacks in name only with very low death tolls which don't exceed the average domestic dispute siege, more people are dying in GA aircraft accidents in Australia than actual terrorist events. Mass killings via bombs and shootings don't happen in Australia, again shows you have very limited experience outside of this country.

Not yet but it's coming. The next generation will be dealing with it though and cursing some of the decisions of this and earlier gens.

By the time that happens it will be open gang warfare in the UK and US, we will still be better off. Demographics here just don't reflect why these are issues overseas, despite the sensationalism.

It's disturbing that you even need to mention that and smacks of Stockholm Syndrome which is alive and well especially down there in Victoria where the dictator will likely be voted back in soon.

Not sure why you are dredging Covid back up again when we are pretty much back to normal here.

My point still stands though, if you want to leave Australia, go for it, I'm not going to stop anyone, or even dissuade them. Just make sure you hand in your passports and don't cry for help from the Aussie consulate when your new homeland does something that is really draconian and you want a free pass home. I really want my taxes to fix my roads and provide infrastructure I can use, not fund somebody elses follies that wants to avoid paying tax by living o/s for a few years, there's already enough wasted with government.

PS I'll still go and spend 6 months in Euroland for holidays, nothing wrong with that, but I'll still pay taxes at home here.

[Eclan]

Suggest you read the news more and look up what happened in Marawi in the Phillipines before posting. Then there's just the murders and killings committed by the government to curb the drug problems, or opposition parties, depending on who you talk to.
Well, you said cities - plural - are held by terrorists. I asked because I wanted to know if you believe this is or were just being sensationalist or even just making up stuff. Yes a city was fought over, it's not great but no cities there are "held by terrorists." I'm sure Chris is staying in a nice area of which there are many and not worried about having his head removed. It's a bit melodramatic to suggest he'll end up whacked just by living in a nice area of that country.

Sieges by mentally disturbed individuals happen everywhere, these are terrorist attacks in name only with very low death tolls which don't exceed the average domestic dispute siege, more people are dying in GA aircraft accidents in Australia than actual terrorist events. Mass killings via bombs and shootings don't happen in Australia, again shows you have very limited experience outside of this country.
You appear to have missed the point or misinterpreted it as sarcasm.

My point still stands though, if you want to leave Australia, go for it, I'm not going to stop anyone, or even dissuade them. Just make sure you hand in your passports and don't cry for help from the Aussie consulate when your new homeland does something that is really draconian and you want a free pass home. I really want my taxes to fix my roads and provide infrastructure I can use, not fund somebody elses follies that wants to avoid paying tax by living o/s for a few years, there's already enough wasted with government.
Well, no, your point on that never did stand I'm afraid. You already did try to dissuade him with fear-mongering over terror and getting sick. I doubt Chris needs a nanny. He's already paid his taxes and is welcome to retire wherever he wants, without your approval. Demanding he hand in his passport is a cheap, silly and emotionally-ignorant shot to take. He's paid his taxes and is entitled to all the wonderful benefits of this great socialist country, wherever he's living. Personally offended by it? Tough titties. I hope he milks it for all it's worth.

[KAPAC]

Just to balance out the picture your painting of the selfish expat who is using up all of Australians resources while stumbling from one disaster to another while overseas .
Most expats do very well overseas , career wise , socially and financially . Never ask for any help while sending large amounts of wealth back to Australia , investing it into property and super and not a single cent of Australian tax payers money was used on them while they created this wealth . Over %5 of Australians live overseas . Many come back multi millionaires , stimulating the Australian economy by paying taxes , school fees and using private health . Not sure why you fear the expat so much ?

[43Inches]

Just to balance out the picture your painting of the selfish expat who is using up all of Australians resources while stumbling from one disaster to another while overseas .
Most expats do very well overseas , career wise , socially and financially . Never ask for any help while sending large amounts of wealth back to Australia , investing it into property and super and not a single cent of Australian tax payers money was used on them while they created this wealth . Over %5 of Australians live overseas . Many come back multi millionaires , stimulating the Australian economy by paying taxes , school fees and using private health . Not sure why you fear the expat so much ?

My comments were aimed not at all expats but ones that think somehow life in a third world country beats living in Australia. Just because they can do what they want due to the wealth they gathered in Aus, and don't give a damn that people are starving and living in squaler around them. But hey they are fine...

[KAPAC]

Your talking about me then , I’m currently living in a third world country and it is because it’s cheap to live . Losing my job flying I could have taken family back to Australia and put them straight in government schools used free health care .
My daughter is cooking food to sell at her school to raise money for underprivileged kids in the country we live in . We donate time and money plus help out wife’s family with education and health . Teach my kids to leave a place in better shape than they find it . I’m now employed again and we kept our assets , kids in good school . We are very grateful we could live in this country and it’s worked well for them and us . No issues , respect locals and their culture . There is good and bad everywhere . Only added to maintain some balance for what I find to be very aggressive and negative posts .

[43Inches]

Your talking about me then , I’m currently living in a third world country and it is because it’s cheap to live . Losing my job flying I could have taken family back to Australia and put them straight in government schools used free health care .
My daughter is cooking food to sell at her school to raise money for underprivileged kids in the country we live in . We donate time and money plus help out wife’s family with education and health . Teach my kids to leave a place in better shape than they find it . I’m now employed again and we kept our assets , kids in good school . We are very grateful we could live in this country and it’s worked well for them and us . No issues , respect locals and their culture . There is good and bad everywhere . Only added to maintain some balance for what I find to be very aggressive and negative posts .

I did say it about was those that dont give a damn about those around them. From what you say you are not who Im talking about.

However its always rosy in the third world until you get sick and die or become disabled from something as simple as an inflamed appendix. I know this first hand, lost some good freinds to very simple illness. And half of those were wealthy and could afford the besy treatment available there.

[KAPAC]

Wealthy people die of similar diseases in Australia .
We could go on like this for years . I’m happy to give your posts balance but I do work so going to be hard keeping up .

[Eclan]

My comments were aimed not at all expats but ones that think somehow life in a third world country beats living in Australia. Just because they can do what they want due to the wealth they gathered in Aus, and don't give a damn that people are starving and living in squaler around them. But hey they are fine...
Why do you care if someone you've never even met enjoys living in the Philipines? Who made you the morals arbiter? Sounds more like you got caught being sanctimonious and are now trying to justify it. Now you're concerned about starving Filipinos? (They might be third world but they don't actually starve there.) Is there any cause you won't take up?

[43Inches]

Wealthy people die of similar diseases in Australia .
We could go on like this for years . I’m happy to give your posts balance but I do work so going to be hard keeping up .

Not sure what you are trying to prove here, but basic stats show Australian will outlive most third world nations by 10 to 20 years, some pacific islanders can expect to live 30 years less. That is even before you take into account that births and deaths in slum conditions are rarely recorded, so the actual differences could be much higher.

Eclan, you sound like you wouldn't care that a portion of those living in these areas are doing so for illegal reasons like underaged sex and so on. But then you think having money gives you the right to do anything.

[ChrisJ800]

Im the one in Philippines. Worked hard in Oz, paid more taxes than most. Saved my Super. And now enjoy a low cost of living retirement in Philippines. Whats the problem? Many other retired ozzies here.

[KAPAC]

Not sure what you are trying to prove here, but basic stats show Australian will outlive most third world nations by 10 to 20 years, some pacific islanders can expect to live 30 years less. That is even before you take into account that births and deaths in slum conditions are rarely recorded, so the actual differences could be much higher.

Eclan, you sound like you wouldn't care that a portion of those living in these areas are doing so for illegal reasons like underaged sex and so on. But then you think having money gives you the right to do anything.

Again , quoting life expectancies of third world countries, using selected data to get your way . So if a fit Australian leaves Australia where average life expectancy is 75 for a male and lands in Philippines where male life expectancy is 54 he will drop dead as he steps onto the tarmac . I could argue life expectancy for an Australian male pensioner for example , could increase in the Philippines, they could afford private medical care , if he has a good partner he’d be eating fresh seafood and vegetables daily , nagged to exercise regularly . As the previous poster confirms it’s a option .

[Gnadenburg]

Envious of you expats living in the Phillipines. Don’t bother trying to explain your happiness here. Former Australian expats get it. Dreary Australian suburbians perhaps not.

[SOPS]

I really don’t get this whole argument. I spent 25 years overseas. 17 in Europe and 8 in the ME ( that 8 was a mistake). But I’m home now, and very happy. I really can’t see the issue… you make a choice…sometimes you do what yo have to do. And I can tell you…I paid huge taxes living in Europe for 17 years. Also thanks to working for a great company that put a lot into my pension ( superannuation fund) plus my extra contributions, I’m ok. But I was living as a “normal” person…was not not doing some “expat” life style as some imagine here.

[Gnadenburg]

Self-funded retirees should be celebrated by this country. If you had to become an expat for awhile to do that, so be it. Many of my aviation mates left Aussie unemployed and came back financially independent- now either working or enjoying the very relaxing pace of retirement.

There’s even a book that motivates Australians abroad to invest smart and retire back home without taking a cent off the government. All within the ever changing rules of government taxation policy and investing in Australia. The Aussie Expat – The Luckiest Person on Earth”

Every young Aussie pilot I meet, I tell them go aboard. See the world and invest smart. Come back anytime, jets have proliferated here, pay is very low, and the jobs will always be here IMO.

[Eclan]

Eclan, you sound like you wouldn't care that a portion of those living in these areas are doing so for illegal reasons like underaged sex and so on. But then you think having money gives you the right to do anything.
So are you trying to say obliquely you think he's a paedophile just because he wants to live in the Philippines?

Regarding money - sounds like you have none. Are you one of these angry, socialist lefties who thinks the rich should be taxed more and the poor (you) taxed not at all while people who work harder pay for you and your freebies? Oh, and the rich should have their passports taken away if they go outside the tax zone.

I'd suggest you're on thin ice with the paedo accusation.

[ChrisJ800]

Im yet to meet or know of a pedo here but met a couple in sydney, one being a teacher of mine. I dont understand your poison thinking. Ive been married for 28 years and she is with me here. Dont make elon musk asumptions like he made on the thai cave rescuer. Most people are good. Lets get back on topic.

[43Inches]

Love how you fight facts with "just because I haven't met one". Facts about the third world are just that, there is no balance or anything you can argue that alters that they are referred to as developing or third world for a reason. Sadly it's well known what a lot of Aussies go to the Philippines for, and it's not the weather, same as Thailand. BTW I know several survivors of the this abuse who have married Aussies living there to hopefully get out, the hubby moves back when they get sick and old as they know the deal with the health system. Get here and realise that the Australian system will help them escape their abusive husband where over there the rich pricks would just pay the police off if the wife dared to leave and even return them to the situation. I've attended when the black vans arrived and whisked them away to safety. Here, once they get a friend group they can get real help and be removed and renamed, rehoused, which is why it might take several years before they leave to trust our system is not like there. Yes there are a few expats who are good, normal and do the right thing, but from what I've seen it seems in the minority in that country. When someone says they are going to a place to escape 'draconian' rules, such as covid restrictions usually means they like the 'no rule' lifestyle and what nefarious activities it brings with it. And we are talking about expats who go to certain third world countries not expats in general.

Again , quoting life expectancies of third world countries, using selected data to get your way . So if a fit Australian leaves Australia where average life expectancy is 75 for a male and lands in Philippines where male life expectancy is 54 he will drop dead as he steps onto the tarmac . I could argue life expectancy for an Australian male pensioner for example , could increase in the Philippines, they could afford private medical care , if he has a good partner he’d be eating fresh seafood and vegetables daily , nagged to exercise regularly . As the previous poster confirms it’s a option .


Actually you show the complete lack of understanding of why the life expectancy is lower. Food standards and health regulations are lax, water quality and infrastructure is poor, medical facilities, equipment and skilled staff are lacking. So yes you could be fit and healthy, fall down the stairs on arrival and be admitted to hospital and die from something that in Australia would be an overnight stay. People live shorter lives on average because as you age you require more specialist help to stay healthy. A good friend couldn't afford his basic blood thinners OS because there was no subsidised medicine programs there and they cost over $200 a month, he was healthy and sporting. Used tried and tested local remedies that they swore by that thinned the blood, guess what died 2 years later of a massive clot. I could go onto more cases I know where burst appendices, easily fixed heart issues and a million other things will kill you prematurely, all which would be almost day procedures and a couple of bucks a month in susidised meds. I also know several doctors that volunteer their services to the third world and can tell you how un-balanced any argument about health truly is, especially in poorer Asia and Oceania.

And all these health issues are before you get to public disorder issues and such.

Again these are just facts, not trying to tell you whether to go or not, that is your decision. I'm just presenting the counter to an argument that moving to the third world is a good retirement move, or you are somehow way better off than being in Australia. There's a good chance I have family, cousins, good friends that will put you up for a night in many Asian and Oceania countries (locals) and tell you what to avoid so that your naivety doesn't kill you before the third world does.

[Icarus2001]

Again these are just facts,

Yes, facts like these…

Yes there are a few expats who are good, normal and do the right thing, but from what I've seen it seems in the minority in that country.

[Gnadenburg]

I once climbed a remote mountain in the Central Phillipines and low and behold, out of the mist a WW2 bomber sat strewn over a ridge line. Twelve went into cloud and eleven came out, going onto bombing Tojo up Luzon way. I loved the adventure of the Phillipines. You were a goner of course living that kind of life and adventure, if anything went wrong, but wow you felt alive. There’s little remote medical care but that’s your choice and you know the risks.

Funnily enough I wonder if Aussies going to Queenstown, the adventure capital of the Southern Hemisphere, realise they’d get better medical care in the Phillipines? I don’t think there’s any IC units in QT.

Salute the pprune retirees in PH. Don’t be dismayed by some of the commentary here.

[43Inches]

Ok I'll apologise for that, it is an exageration, not 'fact'. Just personal experience got ahead of me, when you have dealt with the scum of the earth you can get an idea they are all like that, but there is an awful lot of them, more than you would like. There's a pretty well set up group that deals with them here in Australia, not much that can be done in the Philippines though, too much corruption involved.

[43Inches]

I once climbed a remote mountain in the Central Phillipines and low and behold, out of the mist a WW2 bomber sat strewn over a ridge line. Twelve went into cloud and eleven came out, going onto bombing Tojo up Luzon way. I loved the adventure of the Phillipines. You were a goner of course living that kind of life and adventure, if anything went wrong, but wow you felt alive. There’s little remote medical care but that’s your choice and you know the risks.

Funnily enough I wonder if Aussies going to Queenstown, the adventure capital of the Southern Hemisphere, realise they’d get better medical care in the Phillipines? I don’t think there’s any IC units in QT.

Salute the pprune retirees in PH. Don’t be dismayed by some of the commentary here.

But that is being aware of the risks, not making out that its somehow perfectly safe and normal.

I'm not going to dissuade someone from climbing Mt Everest, but if you make out its perfectly safe and akin to walking up Mt Dandenong on a warm Autumns night you have rocks inbetween the ears.

As far as the Queenstown comment, you do realise it's one town vs a whole country you are comparing there. I mean there's no ICU in Williams creek, but sure as hell you could get an air ambo there and transit to a capital city in a very short time, all covered by your insurance, or ambo membership.

[WingNut60]

Immediate admission at Bumrungraad or queued for five hours in an ambulance outside Royal Perth Hospital?
Hmmmm....? Which one should I pick?

Or, which one is third world?

[Gnadenburg]

An Aussie holidaying in QT probably doesn’t realise that come a jet boat or skiing accident, medical care would be better in metro- Manilla. Not going to argue with you and your creative scenarios as I know both places very well. QT is loaded with high-net worth Aussies avoiding tax on their foreign businesses. I take the piss out of them, exposing themselves and family to Third World medical risk for dollars they can well afford not to have.

[43Inches]

Immediate admission at Bumrungraad or queued for five hours in an ambulance outside Royal Perth Hospital?
Hmmmm....? Which one should I pick?

Or, which one is third world?

To be fair Bumrungraad is a private hospital, RPH is a public hospital. If you have private insurance in either place you can skip ambulance queues and go to your private of choice. The major difference is in public hospitals.The Difference Between Public and Private Hospitals in ThailandThe difference in Thailand between public and private hospitals is not so much about the quality of healthcare, especially in the larger cities, but more about ease of access and overall comfort. For a Westerner, it is easy and straightforward to make an appointment at a private clinic or hospital. A public clinic or hospital will generally require a first-time visitor to walk-in before being able to make appointments. Seeing a doctor on the same day without an appointment for a non-life-threatening condition generally requires arriving at the clinic between 6 and 7 in the morning. Once admitted to a public hospital, the conditions are much less comfortable than in a private one, with many more beds to a room, and often with outdated equipment and facilities. In rural areas, public hospitals may not have the equipment or specialists capable of handling major trauma injuries or severe illnesses. For some, this means choosing a permanent location in Thailand that allows access to Bangkok’s hospitals. For those who must make use of Thailand’s public hospital system, but want to avoid the long wait times and have access to nicer facilities, it is worth seeking out purchasing private medical services or using premium clinics within the government-run system.

[43Inches]

An Aussie holidaying in QT probably doesn’t realise that come a jet boat or skiing accident, medical care would be better in metro- Manilla. Not going to argue with you and your creative scenarios as I know both places very well. QT is loaded with high-net worth Aussies avoiding tax on their foreign businesses. I take the piss out of them, exposing themselves and family to Third World medical risk for dollars they can well afford not to have.

The argument is not whether the care is available there, but what time frame it would arrive. As long as there is a good paramedic service with fast transit via air service to a major hospital you will be a lot better off. No country has perfect hospitals designed for major trauma in every town, but having fast access to first aid, stabilising treatment, followed by quick transit to the required treatment is key. QT is not really comparable, you have many options available for quick evac. Get sick in somewhere like Fiji, and your closest decent hospital is in Australia or New Zealand, and the local paramedics (if they even have them) and hospitals are haphazard to stabilise you at best.

The paramedic/ambulance service is another thing that you would have to add in, no point having the best hospital if you have to get yourself there in an emergency. Reminds me of the woman in Bairnsdale that had her whole face ripped off by a milking machine that grabbed her hair, fast paramedic attendance and rapid transit to Melbourne meant she survived and had her face reattached.

I mean you could argue all the billionaires living in Portsea in Victoria are miles from hospital access, except that a paramedic will attend in minutes and then helicopter have them in the city in mere minutes.

At least Phillipines has a single emergency number now which is only about 5 years old using 911. Even then it's recommended you have the number of a local private ambulance provider for timely attendance.

[WingNut60]

To be fair Bumrungraad is a private hospital, RPA is a public hospital. If you have private insurance in either place you can skip ambulance queues and go to your private of choice. The major difference is in public hospitals.
As far as I know, it is NOT possible to skip ambulance queues for ED admissions at any hospitals in WA

No strictly private hospitals (or joint private / public) that I know of even have an ED in the true sense of the word.

[Eclan]

It sounds like an argument over assisted death, does he really want to die or is someone influencing him? Why does one guy's decision to make his own choices on a place to live bother some people so much? It's bizarre.

Chris, it sounds like you're a big boy and you made big boy decisions. That seems to frighten some people but you should enjoy yourself and feel free, in the worst case, to make full use of our medical system that you helped pay for, when you need it. That's a right you don't even need to earn, it's part of our system. In the meantime enjoy the many amazing aspects of life there and ignore the rants of people who've never set foot outside Australia apart from Bali and assume anyone else is a paedophile.

Anyone else in need of the comfort of a nanny state, needing to live on the taxes of "rich pricks" richer than you, don't venture out, stay home and watch Q&A to reinforce your beliefs.

Immediate admission at Bumrungraad or queued for five hours in an ambulance outside Royal Perth Hospital?
Hmmmm....? Which one should I pick?

Or, which one is third world?
Good point, Wingnut, and they probably have first rate internet, too.

[43Inches]

As far as I know, it is NOT possible to skip ambulance queues for ED admissions at any hospitals in WA

No strictly private hospitals (or joint private / public) that I know of even have an ED in the true sense of the word.


It depends on the treatment, heart attack needs a cat lab, more and more privates have private cardiac wards now that the ambulance can offer to take you to such ERs if the public is busy. Hollywood/Ramsey in Nedlands is one of these.

Ambulance ramping is when the ER ward is full and no suitable alternate is available, so if options are available to treat a patient they can go there.

Shortages of ambulances in Australia are more a cultural issue, mostly occurring on Friday/Saturdays due to drunks, drugs and other weekend reasons.

[43Inches]

It sounds like an argument over assisted death, does he really want to die or is someone influencing him? Why does one guy's decision to make his own choices on a place to live bother some people so much? It's bizarre.

Chris, it sounds like you're a big boy and you made big boy decisions. That seems to frighten some people but you should enjoy yourself and feel free, in the worst case, to make full use of our medical system that you helped pay for, when you need it. That's a right you don't even need to earn, it's part of our system. In the meantime enjoy the many amazing aspects of life there and ignore the rants of people who've never set foot outside Australia apart from Bali and assume anyone else is a paedophile.

Anyone else in need of the comfort of a nanny state, needing to live on the taxes of "rich pricks" richer than you, don't venture out, stay home and watch Q&A to reinforce your beliefs.


Good point, Wingnut, and they probably have first rate internet, too.

I think you have a big issue with what is general advice/reality vs being told not to do something. It's more that you don't like what the reality is and are annoyed that someone else has a contrary view. I really don't care what you choose to do, just don't say somethings better or worse without facing reality, people will disagree with you. Nothing has been said other than insults to tell me I need to reconsider my opinion, I haven't once said that they should not live there, or go there, just pointing out the realities of third world living and not doing so at the cost of others, whether locals or Aussie taxpayers. Don't care if you've worked hard, so have the rest of us.

[MickG0105]

As far as I know, it is NOT possible to skip ambulance queues for ED admissions at any hospitals in WA

No strictly private hospitals (or joint private / public) that I know of even have an ED in the true sense of the word.
The Ramsay Private Hospitals at Nedlands and Joondalup and St John of God Private at Murdoch all have properly kitted out EDs. As you'd expect, it's not free. For obvious reasons there's currently a trend in private hospitals offering that level of service.

[Eclan]

I think you have a big issue with what is general advice/reality vs being told not to do something. It's more that you don't like what the reality is and are annoyed that someone else has a contrary view. I really don't care what you choose to do, just don't say somethings better or worse without facing reality, people will disagree with you. Nothing has been said other than insults to tell me I need to reconsider my opinion, I haven't once said that they should not live there, or go there, just pointing out the realities of third world living and not doing so at the cost of others, whether locals or Aussie taxpayers. Don't care if you've worked hard, so have the rest of us.

He never said it is "better" but simply implied it is better for him.

You don't care what anyone chooses to do? One guy says he moved overseas and it's the best move HE ever made and you're now 25,000 words into some serious ranting dragging in medical care, hospitals, terrorism, taxation, paedophilia and child-abuse, money-envy and general entitlement with yourself as the adjudicator on what's allowed and what isn't.

You are plain-wrong about the Aussie system covering him. Now you're complaining about being insulted but if you're going to be some kind of self-designated font of knowledge and opinion on all things, sorry, but you need to take the lumps when you get it wrong on all counts including simple comprehension of the original post!

You DO care if he's worked hard because you've cast aspersions on his taxation responsibilities. It's a bit late to go back on that now. You have some serious issues with tall poppy syndrome not the least of them. Take a week in the Boracay and unwind and see the place for yourself, then come back and rant with at least some basis in fact.

[43Inches]

He never said it is "better" but simply implied it is better for him.

You don't care what anyone chooses to do? One guy says he moved overseas and it's the best move HE ever made and you're now 25,000 words into some serious ranting dragging in medical care, hospitals, terrorism, taxation, paedophilia and child-abuse, money-envy and general entitlement with yourself as the adjudicator on what's allowed and what isn't.

You are plain-wrong about the Aussie system covering him. Now you're complaining about being insulted but if you're going to be some kind of self-designated font of knowledge and opinion on all things, sorry, but you need to take the lumps when you get it wrong on all counts including simple comprehension of the original post!

You DO care if he's worked hard because you've cast aspersions on his taxation responsibilities. It's a bit late to go back on that now. You have some serious issues with tall poppy syndrome not the least of them. Take a week in the Boracay and unwind and see the place for yourself, then come back and rant with at least some basis in fact.

There you go a rant of insults again with nothing meaningful at all. I actually don't care at all about what he's done as you have completely misunderstood that none of my comments are aimed at this mysterious person you are talking about and are general in nature. You are the only one aiming at one person in general, its quite obvious.

You DO care if he's worked hard because you've cast aspersions on his taxation responsibilities. It's a bit late to go back on that now. You have some serious issues with tall poppy syndrome not the least of them. Take a week in the Boracay and unwind and see the place for yourself, then come back and rant with at least some basis in fact.

I think your assumptions are that I haven't traveled, in fact I've lived in many countries overseas, which is why I have a lot of knowledge about the local systems and processes. And can call out the BS naivity you pedal in the guise of somehow proving me wrong for your ego. I mean I've only talked about health systems, we could go into corruption and many other things, but you will just deny it exists. Of course there are wonderful places to visit overseas, go do it, I do recommend it, but will you find many places better than Australia to call your home and raise a family in an overall sense, good luck. After all that's what this argument is about.

I do hope you get your BP checked soon, you sound like a bitter person in general which is genuinely bad for your health.

[ChrisJ800]

Unsubscribing. Im off sailing on my boat here and flying ultralights. Ive been to a hospital and dentist here and yes i pay cash but its good value. Bye.

[KAPAC]

My son got sore throat and a temp , it’s 11 pm at night at the height of covid . Wife goes into full muma bear mode . In the next 3 hours we had two online consultations with a paediatrician who was home asleep , blood tests , pcr tests , helicopter on standby , a bed at St Luke’s Manila on standby and access to a 24 hour pharmacy .
2 am were told he’s got infected throat , cost came to about $40 Aussie . paediatrician said pay him when we see him next . I refused the helicopter offer and said I’d drive him if required as I know helicopters can be full IFR with auto land but all crewed by ex military and no IFR rating . That’s the difference , you got to understand the limitations and know where the threats are .

Bumrungrad is a fantastic hospital .

There are many Aussies here who will get no where near the average life span of an Australian male but Im confident to say if they where in Australia they would also have little chance of getting to the average either . Just an observation .

[43Inches]

That’s the difference , you got to understand the limitations and know where the threats are .

And that's all I've been saying, in regards to overseas living.

I mean St Lukes is still a private hospital, so it would be interesting the cost if you actually had to stay there and I'm sure the treatment would be fantastic. Also the medivac heli would have been a private service as well at cost. Not sure how much insurance covers everything though.

That being said everything you are talking of there would be covered by insurance in Australia or free if using the public services. Telehealth appointments, nurse on call etc, all free. Ambulance is paid for, but you can avoid that if you have simple ambulance cover , or comprehensive health insurance, or are a pensioner.

To be fair the Phillipines is not squarely third world, it just has developing country aspects, if you have insurance and or money you can live quite well, as Chris is doing from the sound of it. Would I trade Aussie lifestyle for life there, no, not my cup of tea. Are you better off there, I would still argue no, as there are many problems that can still ruin your day that just don't exist in Australia, and I don't wish to deal with it in retirement. Fill your boots if you do.

My major issues for me personally would be water quality and repeated exposure to Malaria and Dengue if you are there for enough wet seasons. At least the treatments for those are getting better.

[KAPAC]

And that's all I've been saying, in regards to overseas living.

I mean St Lukes is still a private hospital, so it would be interesting the cost if you actually had to stay there and I'm sure the treatment would be fantastic. Also the medivac heli would have been a private service as well at cost. Not sure how much insurance covers everything though.

That being said everything you are talking of there would be covered by insurance in Australia or free if using the public services. Telehealth appointments, nurse on call etc, all free. Ambulance is paid for, but you can avoid that if you have simple ambulance cover , or comprehensive health insurance, or are a pensioner.

To be fair the Phillipines is not squarely third world, it just has developing country aspects, if you have insurance and or money you can live quite well, as Chris is doing from the sound of it. Would I trade Aussie lifestyle for life there, no, not my cup of tea. Are you better off there, I would still argue no, as there are many problems that can still ruin your day that just don't exist in Australia, and I don't wish to deal with it in retirement. Fill your boots if you do.

My major issues for me personally would be water quality and repeated exposure to Malaria and Dengue if you are there for enough wet seasons. At least the treatments for those are getting better.

Got to have insurance unlike Australia .

[Gnadenburg]

The argument is not whether the care is available there, but what time frame it would arrive. As long as there is a good paramedic service with fast transit via air service to a major hospital you will be a lot better off. No country has perfect hospitals

I wasn’t arguing, I was stating facts with empirical evidence. Aussies would be surprised at the lack of emergency facilities in Queenstown. I know people who have been driven to Dunedin in a very bad way, in private vehicles, due lack of emergency care. You are way safer in metro-Manila. It’s not what you’d expect front the adventure capital of the Southern Hemisphere. But hey, I can’t out-google you I can just go on personal experience.

We are way off topic anyways? As I said at the time and it seems we are getting sone reflections now of Australia’s COVID response, we should be nationally embarrassed.

[Rataxes]

Standby for a reply now arguing the definition of "argument."

[Flying Binghi]

Interesting…

“…Actuaries Australia estimate the increase in deaths in the first five months of the year was 12% higher than expected. They are the most conservative. The Australian Bureau of statistics (ABS) though calculates that so far in the first half of 2022 there were some 13,500 deaths more than the historical average. If they are correct that would be 17% above normal…”

https://joannenova.com.au/2022/10/10000-mysterious-excess-deaths-in-australia-that-no-one-wants-to-talk-about/

[Ladloy]

Interesting…

“…Actuaries Australia estimate the increase in deaths in the first five months of the year was 12% higher than expected. They are the most conservative. The Australian Bureau of statistics (ABS) though calculates that so far in the first half of 2022 there were some 13,500 deaths more than the historical average. If they are correct that would be 17% above normal…”

https://joannenova.com.au/2022/10/10000-mysterious-excess-deaths-in-australia-that-no-one-wants-to-talk-about/
are tinfoil hats sold on the merchandise page of this website?

[dr dre]

Interesting…


Not at all. There’s a rational explanation for that, and it’s has been reporting on openly by credible sources (in contrast to that conspiracy site’s “no one wants to talk about it” message).

Bascially Covid, long Covid complications and other infectious diseases. Not “vaccine injury”.

'No credible evidence' vaccines are behind rising Australian deaths (https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101527734)

[Global Aviator]

I laugh at some of the medical comments re some places.

Google medical tourism.

[Flying Binghi]

Not at all. There’s a rational explanation for that, and it’s has been reporting on openly by credible sources (in contrast to that conspiracy site’s “no one wants to talk about it” message).

Bascially Covid, long Covid complications and other infectious diseases. Not “vaccine injury”.

'No credible evidence' vaccines are behind rising Australian deaths (https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101527734)


Many of the so-called “long covid” symptoms are much the same as the ‘symptoms’ of hysteria.

As to vaccine injury..? We’ll see in time I guess.

I suspect many of the current extra deaths are related to the virus hysteria stoping people having a doctor visit to check out that lump, or nagging cough, or such, and leading to undiagnosed medical conditions that if treated earlier would not have caused a death. What we got is a lot of government lockdown created deaths.

What we gots now is a building score card. In one column we got deaths due to government incompetence and hysteria in some people. In the other column we gots death due to the actual effects of the china virus. Of note is the fact that the average age of the claimed deaths due to the china virus is about the same as the age of all cause death… Hmmm……:hmm:
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[Rataxes]

Not at all. There’s a rational explanation for that, and it’s has been reporting on openly by credible sources (in contrast to that conspiracy site’s “no one wants to talk about it” message).

Bascially Covid, long Covid complications and other infectious diseases. Not “vaccine injury”.

'No credible evidence' vaccines are behind rising Australian deaths (https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101527734)
In fairness that article quotes words and phrases such as "likely" and "more likely" and "plausible" none of which is indicative of scientific proof of something. Karen went on to say the provisional data ...."does not show anything at all that attributes death to vaccines or not." An honest statement. And of course the data are provisional. You know what that means.

The absence of available credible evidence does not disprove its existence; this is a scientific fundamental. No doubt the next eight years of "testing" will be enlightening.

[kingRB]

'No credible evidence' vaccines are behind rising Australian deaths (https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101527734)

This was my favourite part

According to the study, the results suggested that YouTube comments sections could function as "under-regulated epistemic spaces" in which conspiracy theories could flourish.

Because general dialogue, discussion and speech from the public obviously needs to be "more regulated" in response. Got anything to say that might go against the approved narrative? That needs regulation.
Sounds more and more like the Chinese Communist party every day.

[dr dre]

Because general dialogue, discussion and speech from the public obviously needs to be "more regulated" in response. Got anything to say that might go against the approved narrative? That needs regulation.
Sounds more and more like the Chinese Communist party every day.

Nah let’s discard what medical professionals have to say in favour of the YouTube comments section……. /s

Either way the war was fought and won, the anti vaxxer/Covid Hoax movement has pretty much died in the backside, and the world has moved on. Only the crazies still harp on about it.

[kingRB]

Nah let’s discard what medical professionals have to say in favour of the YouTube comments section……. /s


The problem is these people are advocating to make that choice for them - not allow them to make that determination themselves.

You defeat bad ideas and mistruths by discussion and education of facts - not by censoring what people can and can't say. The only people seeking to stop speech are the ones that have something to hide, or don't have objective truth on their side.

[dr dre]

On the contrary it’s been proven that misinformation can be lethal. The average Joe doesn’t have the knowledge to interpret what is right or wrong, and can easily fall for disinformation if it is persuasive enough.

[Rataxes]

On the contrary it’s been proven that misinformation can be lethal. The average Joe doesn’t have the knowledge to interpret what is right or wrong, and can easily fall for disinformation if it is persuasive enough.
Some people refer to the above as Darwin's Theory of Evolution or, more accurately, Natural Selection, at work. The Flynn Effect is over, IQs are declining and doing the thinking for everyone (aka nannyism) is partly to blame. The left would have you believe this is all a good thing but then wonder why idiots get hurt.

Only the crazies still harp on about it.
Like you? You seem particularly drawn to this topic, again and again. You seem to have something to prove and convince everyone (or possibly yourself) of. Buyer's remorse?

[kingRB]

On the contrary it’s been proven that misinformation can be lethal. The average Joe doesn’t have the knowledge to interpret what is right or wrong, and can easily fall for disinformation if it is persuasive enough.


I see - and who gets to make the decision who the "average joe" is then? Who gets to decide who's permitted to speak and who's not then? Who decides what is permitted to be spoken?
This leads only to one place = the State knows what's best for you, you'll shut up and comply

[MickG0105]

... , IQs are declining and doing the thinking for everyone (aka nannyism) is partly to blame. ...
The data tends not to support that notion. Singapore, often recognised as the Nanny-state, has one of the highest national average IQs. Same same with Finland and Germany - routinely ranked high as Nanny-states also rank highly on national average IQs.

[Ladloy]

Some people refer to the above as Darwin's Theory of Evolution or, more accurately, Natural Selection, at work. The Flynn Effect is over, IQs are declining and doing the thinking for everyone (aka nannyism) is partly to blame. The left would have you believe this is all a good thing but then wonder why idiots get hurt.


Like you? You seem particularly drawn to this topic, again and again. You seem to have something to prove and convince everyone (or possibly yourself) of. Buyer's remorse?

The data tends not to support that notion. Singapore, often recognised as the Nanny-state, has one of the highest national average IQs. Same same with Finland and Germany - routinely ranked high as Nanny-states also rank highly on national average IQs.
and to counter Rataxes, Singapore is most definitely a right wing authoritarian country.

[1A_Please]

Good to see this thread resuscitated in memory of our multi-personality contributor BNEA320. He is still around posting on other boards with yet more pseudonyms.

[Flying Binghi]

Nah let’s discard what medical professionals have to say in favour of the YouTube comments section……. /s

Either way the war was fought and won, the anti vaxxer/Covid Hoax movement has pretty much died in the backside, and the world has moved on. Only the crazies still harp on about it.

Oh, I think there’s a bit more to happen yet. For one, the upcoming litigation is still in the evidence gathering phase..:hmm:


Lets have a look-see at what some of the so-called experts had to say. From two years ago, epidemiologist Raina Macintyre talks on TV and exposes her incompetence:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylljz-gUHMI

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[kingRB]

Sorry Binghi - you've been determined to be an average-joe, and therefore lack the knowledge to determine whether she was right or wrong. Please regulate your speech to stop spreading misinformation

[1A_Please]

Good to see this thread is as bonkers as ever.

[Flying Binghi]

Sorry Binghi - you've been determined to be an average-joe, and therefore lack the knowledge to determine whether she was right or wrong. Please regulate your speech to stop spreading misinformation

;)







…………

[Flying Binghi]

Reporter Avi Yemini covers the latest court case related to the china virus… hysteria:
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.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qWhGtbaSeBY

[Ladloy]

Reporter Avi Yemini covers the latest court case related to the china virus… hysteria:
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.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qWhGtbaSeBY
Ah yes the reporter who beats his wife with a chopping board.

[Flying Binghi]

ah yes the reporter who beats his wife with a chopping board.

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[Ladloy]

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As your best friend, Adam Bandt would say "Google it, mate".

[Lezzeno]

Ah yes the reporter who beats his wife with a chopping board.

That justifies the actions of Victoria Police does it?

[Flying Binghi]

As your best friend, Adam Bandt would say "Google it, mate".

?

Whats the background of a currently officially Australian accredited journalist got to do with the interview of the chap that were assaulted by the Police ?

Ladloy, perhaps you have some information that would cause Avy Yemini to lose his accreditation ?
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:hmm:

[Ladloy]

?

Whats the background of a currently officially Australian accredited journalist got to do with the interview of the chap that were assaulted by the Police ?

Ladloy, perhaps you have some information that would cause Avy Yemini to lose his accreditation ?
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:hmm:
What accreditation? Is this the whole $30 press pass accreditation? He plead guilty for assault for throwing a chopping board at his ex wife's head. Can you show me old mates accreditation?

[Flying Binghi]

Continuing the back grounding…

Covid-19: Researcher blows the whistle on data integrity issues in Pfizer’s vaccine trial


https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635



And whats one of the ways to corrupt data…


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WveCXtr3zVM

[Flying Binghi]

What accreditation? Is this the whole $30 press pass accreditation? He plead guilty for assault for throwing a chopping board at his ex wife's head. Can you show me old mates accreditation?

Ladloy, seems all yer got is to try and divert and to attack the reporter..:hmm:


Others have tried that… An apology from Victoria Police:


”…On each occasion, Mr Yemini was wrongfully arrested and detained by members of Victoria Police whilst reporting for Rebel News…”


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_FwYnqB3S4U

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Life is back to pre covid normals in the USA. Domestic flights are close to 100 percent full, and only the very occasional mask seen. Was in Belgium recently - nada- no masks, no social distancing, crowds at fairs, and markets - all pre covid normal. What a great scam that has been perpetrated on the world.

[tossbag]

Ahhhhh, that's right, cos every dipsh!t reporting the news graduated from CSU with a journalism degree.

You can believe Avi, nothing to hide.

History will look back on VicPol for exactly what they are, government backed thugs, a branch of the government, like the Stasi. The figurehead of the cult of Dan. No one will ever wonder why or how the Jonestown mob swallowed the poison, they'll just look at Victoria.

[dr dre]

Life is back to pre covid normals in the USA. Domestic flights are close to 100 percent full, and only the very occasional mask seen. Was in Belgium recently - nada- no masks, no social distancing, crowds at fairs, and markets - all pre covid normal. What a great scam that has been perpetrated on the world.

Did you miss the bit in the middle where everyone got vaccinated? That’s why the world is back near a “pre covid norm”, it’s not rocket science…..

[Flying Binghi]

Did you miss the bit in the middle where everyone got vaccinated? That’s why the world is back near a “pre covid norm”, it’s not rocket science…..

Hmmm…I’m not vaccinated for the china virus..:cool:

From what I can see most of the world did not get a china virus vaccine…


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aYyoiFEUq-Y

[dr dre]

Hmmm…I’m not vaccinated for the china virus..:cool:

From what I can see most of the world did not get a china virus vaccine…


Actually over 70% (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html) of the world did, and you were already told in the JB thread why Africa’s lower rate did not affect it as much (average age).

It’s a bit redundant to have this conversation on a forum for professional pilots, when the vast, vast majority of Australian professional pilots have taken a vaccine. Almost some jobs didn’t require it, most did (including all airline pilots). Those who didn’t get vaccinated would’ve totalled no more than 0.2% per company.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Dr Dre, I think its less than 70% total vaxed for the US, anyway, the point is there are ZERO rules, displays of vax details, wearing of masks etc, I’m guessing Australia is still a nanny state, and covid fear still abounds….

[Bend alot]

Did you miss the bit in the middle where everyone got vaccinated? That’s why the world is back near a “pre covid norm”, it’s not rocket science…..
Vaccinated against what?

The latest version raising alarms is an emerging subvariant of Omicron called BA.2.75.2 (https://www.who.int/activities/tracking-SARS-CoV-2-variants). It’s already gained the ability to evade the immunity provided by current vaccines and can’t be neutralized by many of the antiviral drug treatments available. So far, the strain has been reported (https://outbreak.info/situation-reports?pango=BA.2.75) in 47 countries and in 39 U.S. states,

https://time.com/6216760/ba-2-75-2-centaurus-omicron-variant-vaccine/

[ScepticalOptomist]

Vaccinated against what?

The latest version raising alarms is an emerging subvariant of Omicron called BA.2.75.2 (https://www.who.int/activities/tracking-SARS-CoV-2-variants). It’s already gained the ability to evade the immunity provided by current vaccines and can’t be neutralized by many of the antiviral drug treatments available. So far, the strain has been reported (https://outbreak.info/situation-reports?pango=BA.2.75) in 47 countries and in 39 U.S. states,

https://time.com/6216760/ba-2-75-2-centaurus-omicron-variant-vaccine/


No one cares anymore apart from the perpetually scared.

From the moment we’re born, we’re dying.

[ThunderstormFactory]

Dr Dre, I think its less than 70% total vaxed for the US, anyway, the point is there are ZERO rules, displays of vax details, wearing of masks etc, I’m guessing Australia is still a nanny state, and covid fear still abounds….

This is incorrect. Besides the fact that you are required to be vaccinated to even enter the country, masks are still required in Texas of all places at certain locations such as federal buildings and hospitals/medical buildings. Also you’ll see quite a high percentage of customer facing jobs’ employees wearing masks; more than back home anyway.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Besides the fact that you are required to be vaccinated to even enter the country, not if you are American

lots of places have signs still up requiring masks - totally ignored by people, no one gives a **** anymore.

[Gunner747400]

not if you are American

lots of places have signs still up requiring masks - totally ignored by people, no one gives a **** anymore.
So the same as here.

Stop spouting crap.

[Flying Binghi]

Actually over 70% (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html) of the world did, and you were already told in the JB thread why Africa’s lower rate did not affect it as much (average age).

It’s a bit redundant to have this conversation on a forum for professional pilots, when the vast, vast majority of Australian professional pilots have taken a vaccine. Almost some jobs didn’t require it, most did (including all airline pilots). Those who didn’t get vaccinated would’ve totalled no more than 0.2% per company.

Hmmm… so its 70% now. A couple of posts ago it were everyone got vaccinated…

“…Did you miss the bit in the middle where everyone got vaccinated? That’s why the world is back near a “pre covid norm”, it’s not rocket science…”

:hmm:


Meanwhile, over in Germany the investigations continue. Could it be that the ‘vaccines’ were never really all that effective, a placebo perhaps…

“…The mRNA vaccines are having little or no effect on the severity of the infection, it’s becoming clear. Now this has been confirmed by Germany’s Minister of Health, Karl Lauterbach at a Parliamentary hearing in Berlin yesterday…”


https://notrickszone.com/2022/10/25/incredible-shrinking-vaccine-efficacy-health-minister-concedes-severe-cases-not-prevented/

[Bend alot]

No one cares anymore apart from the perpetually scared.

From the moment we’re born, we’re dying.


Oh many still care and still push to get others vaccinated - even though the manufactures admitted "2 doses do little if anything against omnicron variant" you need a "booster (mostly not required in Australia) to have "reasonable" protection against the new variant.

So many still are perpetually sheeply scared, and will wear masks while swimming if they are mandated or told to do so on 7/9/abc/sbs or the cartoon network.

How it would be nice they did not care anymore or better still look over the past 2 years & how the narrative has changed - remember the ventilator shortage? that one went silent very early ( I guess you can get them by the dozen on ebay now).

[dr dre]

Meanwhile, over in Germany the investigations continue. Could it be that the ‘vaccines’ were never really all that effective, a placebo perhaps…


Did you read a few sentences further on:

“People come to the hospitals and survive the illness because they were vaccinated. And if they weren’t vaccinated, then the course of the illness would be much more serious and more people would die.”

[Bend alot]

Did they supply the data and evidence for that comment or (like all others) is privy info that the statement was made?

Please supply the transparent link from the govt announcements and how that decision/statement/mandate was formed - or is it top secret info you can not handle?

WA McClown banned unstabbed from bottle shops - within a few weeks it was safe to sell booze to unstabbed again!!

Your health is not important in things like that! But that is what they told you & many believe it was for the safety.

Really - got to get my pig with wings to play Santa with much of the rubbish - now being confirmed as WRONG/INCORRECT most importantly as POLITICAL.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

NY Supreme Court orders reinstatement of fired untaxed staff, with backpay, says “Being vaccinated does not prevent an individual from contracting or transmitting COVID 19” Adding that the mandates were “about compliance”
….

[Flying Binghi]

Did you read a few sentences further on:

“People come to the hospitals and survive the illness because they were vaccinated. And if they weren’t vaccinated, then the course of the illness would be much more serious and more people would die.”

Except that originally people were told if they get vaccinated they would not get the virus. Then it changed to..

“…When a German parliamentarian asked Lauterbach why so many vaccinated people were winding up hospitalized with COVID despite being vaccinated after being promised they would get only mild cases, the Health Minister could no longer deny it, conceding vaccinated people were indeed suffering in hospitals from severe cases. Lauterbach was left with no choice – he had to concoct a new promise: If you get vaccinated, you won’t die of serious COVID in the hospital…”


https://notrickszone.com/2022/10/25/incredible-shrinking-vaccine-efficacy-health-minister-concedes-severe-cases-not-prevented/

[Flying Binghi]

Did you read a few sentences further on:

“People come to the hospitals and survive the illness because they were vaccinated. And if they weren’t vaccinated, then the course of the illness would be much more serious and more people would die.”

Or… We could have a look-see at this study:

“…study of five million clients of US Veterans Affairs health services found that for the vaccinated, reinfection resulted in more serious health outcomes than their initial infection. In other words, vaccination including boosters did not decrease the risk of reinfection among clients of US veterans health services but did increase the severity of symptoms. Nor did vaccination provide any more protection against reinfection than the unvaccinated had…”


https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-1749502/v1

Comments via: https://hatchardreport.com/dr-helen-petousis-harris-backtracked-on-her-previous-overwhelmingly-pro-vaccine-advice-and-said-enough-is-enough/


:hmm: (https://hatchardreport.com/dr-helen-petousis-harris-backtracked-on-her-previous-overwhelmingly-pro-vaccine-advice-and-said-enough-is-enough/)

[Kent Based]

Or… We could have a look-see at this study:

“…study of five million clients of US Veterans Affairs health services found that for the vaccinated, reinfection resulted in more serious health outcomes than their initial infection. In other words, vaccination including boosters did not decrease the risk of reinfection among clients of US veterans health services but did increase the severity of symptoms. Nor did vaccination provide any more protection against reinfection than the unvaccinated had…”


https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-1749502/v1



It's worth actually reading that link. The study says nothing of the sort re vaccination increasing severity of symptoms. It would be incredible if the study really said that as the whole world would be jumping on it.

The guy who you quoted seems a little unreliable. He's notorious for copying made up facts and disclaims any responsibility for that. He is not even a medical doctor. He has given different accounts of what subject he is a doctor in!

It's bad form to link to a report and then show a summary of it which is made up BS.

[Flying Binghi]

It's worth actually reading that link. The study says nothing of the sort re vaccination increasing severity of symptoms. It would be incredible if the study really said that as the whole world would be jumping on it.

The guy who you quoted seems a little unreliable. He's notorious for copying made up facts and disclaims any responsibility for that. He is not even a medical doctor. He has given different accounts of what subject he is a doctor in!

It's bad form to link to a report and then show a summary of it which is made up BS.

Hmmm… if he is a “little unreliable” then you can offer up some quotes of same… ?..:hmm:

Re the study. I revisited the study that I linked to via The Hatchard Report (THR) and noted it were an abstract of a pre-print dated 17/June/22. Following the link at that site gives the current release published 10/November/22. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02051-3

The THR claims were made reference the pre-print version. As I am unable to read the full pre-print version I do not know what changes were made for publication so am unable to comment on veracity of the conclusions that THR made. I am yet to fully read the current release.



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[Kent Based]

I just showed you an example where what he claimed is not substantiated in the report you linked.

Perhaps you can tell us what your quoted Dr is a doctor of?

[Bend alot]

About a years back pay for 5 drivers. They are running up fast atm at the Fairwork place.

https://rebekahbarnett.substack.com/p/unvaccinated-sydney-train-drivers

[Flying Binghi]

I just showed you an example where what he claimed is not substantiated in the report you linked.

Perhaps you can tell us what your quoted Dr is a doctor of?

That’s it then. Only one example..:hmm:

As to his Dr claims… https://hatchardreport.com/about-guy/


Certainly a bit of a ‘different’ sort of chap..;)

[Kent Based]

I'm pointing out the claim re the vaccinated is baseless. You added the links yourself and there's enough in them to show the report doesn't back his claim.

Your latest link has added nothing to make me believe anything he says.

[TimmyTee]

Who could have guessed that the climate change denying guy also is against vaccinations!?

[Flying Binghi]

Who could have guessed that the climate change denying guy also is against vaccinations!?

I spot a Bot…

;)

[Flying Binghi]

I'm pointing out the claim re the vaccinated is baseless. You added the links yourself and there's enough in them to show the report doesn't back his claim.

Your latest link has added nothing to make me believe anything he says.

:)

I don’t agree with every thing posted on the site: https://hatchardreport.com/


…back to the research papers. Kent Based, you do understand the difference between the preprint and published versions of a research paper ?



:hmm:

[slats11]

Or… We could have a look-see at this study:

“…study of five million clients of US Veterans Affairs health services found that for the vaccinated, reinfection resulted in more serious health outcomes than their initial infection. In other words, vaccination including boosters did not decrease the risk of reinfection among clients of US veterans health services but did increase the severity of symptoms. Nor did vaccination provide any more protection against reinfection than the unvaccinated had…” (https://hatchardreport.com/dr-helen-petousis-harris-backtracked-on-her-previous-overwhelmingly-pro-vaccine-advice-and-said-enough-is-enough/)

Fear-mongering nonsense..

This VA study (like the VA long Covid study) is junk. An observational study looking for associations. That's it.

The group that got reinfected was way sicker at baseline.
Look at Supp table 1 and Supp table 6 (support data is where authors bury all the data they have to include, but know that the lay press will never read).
Way more lived in residential aged care (nursing homes) - 6.8 V 2.6%
More type 2 diabetes - 36% V 32%
More anxiety (23 v 15%) and depression (21 v 15%) - these are very significant comorbidities regarding propensity to report other symptoms)
During the FIRST infection, those patients who subsequently got reinfected were more likely to be admitted to hospital (18% V 9%), more likely to be admitted to ICU (5 V 2%), and more likely to receive antivirals & immunomodulators (17 V 12%) compared to those who didn't get reinfected. than those who didn't get infected.

The reinfected group also had a far poorer immunisation history than those who were not reinfected. Thus, 62% of those not reinfected had received no immunisations, while 87% of those reinfected had received no immunisations (this is historical data which is why these numbers are so low)

So those who got reinfected were sicker across a range of measures, had received fewer vaccinations. and their 1st infection was (not surprisingly) more severe than those who did not get reinfected.

This study only shows that frailer sicker non-immunised people do worse. That's it.