All borders to reopen. [Archive] - Page 31

Gnadenburg

18th Aug 2021, 02:00

I don't have any issue with the vaccine, but that's only because I'm old and it probably isn't going to matter either way. I'm more concerned about the virus itself and it's impact upon my grandchildren. We haven't really been introduced to it yet, only the corona its trojan horse. We don't know anything about it other than it's very long and complex. That surely has to mean lots of capabilities. It really does have us by the short and curlies, so I don't think we should be judging anyone for anything just yet.

Yes, who knows the effects of home schooling and an already retarded Australian education system, when your grandkids have to compete with the world that saw COVID in a different light? They'll inherit debt and higher taxes too and have seen politicians cowering to extract voter support instead of a genuine way out of COVID.

If our COVID response was genuinely about our children and their futures, we would have had a better response from all.

43Inches

18th Aug 2021, 02:08

Yes, who knows the effects of home schooling and an already retarded Australian education system, when your grandkids have to compete with the world that saw COVID in a different light? They'll inherit debt and higher taxes too and have seen politicians cowering to extract voter support instead of a genuine way out of COVID.

If our COVID response was genuinely about our children and their futures, we would have had a better response from all.

USA $6 trillion in covid stimulus funding, all debt, another $2-$4 trillion slated to get around $10 trillion USD in debt directly due to covid economic stimulus. That equates to $22,000 to $28,000 USD per capita.

Australia $250 billion AUD in direct economic stimulus, no significant more debt due in forward estimates(due to stimulus that is). That's about $8000 USD per capita. Pretty clear who's kids will deal with more debt.

Those figures don't even factor in direct covid costs such as loss of economic activity and the general cost of health care issues spread out over time, especially for long covid.

The UK meanwhile, is going to be screwed paying for the NHS for the next decade at least, unless they unwind some benefits.

Who has the best balance of trade of those 3 to pay off the debt it incurs?

Capn Rex Havoc

18th Aug 2021, 02:27

43Inc - The US is coming out of this economically - Everything is open--- Aus - well cranking up the debt- A billion per week? I don''t know the numbers but that per capita spread you mentioned is gonna close pretty quickly.

(Oh and for my eyes can you every time you type "dieing" can you please change it to "dying")

Gnadenburg

18th Aug 2021, 02:33

We have a completely different economy to the USA. Comparing the two is borderline irrelevant. We have different challenges and vulnerabilities going ahead. How responsible you think the COVID fiscal response is for this country, is dependant upon your view of how quickly these challenges and vulnerabilities can present. Soft, selfish and lacking national cohesion. Not great for future generations.

43Inches

18th Aug 2021, 02:34

Everything is open--- Aus - well cranking up the debt- A billion per week? I don''t know the numbers but that per capita spread you mentioned is gonna close pretty quickly.

Not entirely true, USA is still down 30% closure on SMEs. Some result of permanent closure, some closed by choice to avoid the virus and others waiting for the economy to pick up. While things may be open, there is a general fear of the virus subduing travel and trade among some populations. This will continue for a while. The reason the US economy is doing ok at the moment is that Biden pumped a few thousand bucks into every household 3-4 months ago. If something is not done relatively soon about the financial situation in the US there is going to be some severe pain for them coming.

Britain opened and growth has since stalled slightly due to similar reasons. A big drag on the UK economy is isolation of affected workers not being able to be productive. You still can't work while infected, which means all those positive cases, plus their families and close contacts are non productive, effectively like a lockdown.

We have a completely different economy to the USA. Comparing the two is borderline irrelevant. We have different challenges and vulnerabilities going ahead. How responsible you think the COVID fiscal response is for this country, is dependant upon your view of how quickly these challenges and vulnerabilities can present. Soft, selfish and lacking national cohesion. Not great for future generations.

Balance of trade is all that matters, how the economy produces it, who cares, if you spend more than you make like the UK and US, you eventually have to face your debtors. US is already seeing inflation creep up, this is not ideal. Your claim is that our children will be worse off than the rest of the world. There's absolutely no proof of that, in fact the complete opposite is true. And if you think we lack social cohesion, well you need to look at the rest of the world more closely.

43Inches

18th Aug 2021, 02:44

Dont worry about the economy guys, the Chinese will bail us out!

Australia is on the nose with China at the moment, very little investment from them coming our way any time soon. However they are still buying our stuff on a massive scale, so there is that.

But hey, ScoMo signed a deal to sell Tim Tams and Vegemite to the UK.

Capn Rex Havoc

18th Aug 2021, 02:47

This is from Chris Uhlmann - The Sydney Morning Herald -

You might call it a form of Stockholm syndrome, except that Sweden chose another path. Here, of course, the cognoscenti decried it as a failure because over 14,000 died of the disease. But how are we defining success? In worldwide mortality charts (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality) Sweden does no worse than some nations that enforced swingeing restrictions, while our pursuit of the fool’s errand of COVID Zero has seen us level every liberty, destroy educations and livelihoods and shut ourselves off from the world.

As noted here before, it took us 230 years, but we finally managed to perfect the prison colony. (https://www.smh.com.au/link/follow-20170101-p57mq7) We have even invented a perverse new “Covese” lexicon where “freedoms” are not rights, but gifts bestowed by premiers and where the police complain of “illegal family gatherings”.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/scott-morrison-has-little-control-over-australia-s-destiny-or-his-own-20210817-p58jdy.html

Xeptu

18th Aug 2021, 02:50

43Inches

18th Aug 2021, 03:01

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1460x680/sweden_gdp_growth_2x_e17b479be603cab4a86a1afb1ea1bc2f5d394f5 9.png
Swedish GDP growth rate.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1460x680/australia_gdp_growth_2x_dd8e7b9d8334ffda93aebafd1949505ad30e 19f4.png
Australian GDP growth.

So Sweden sacrificed 14,000 people to be about the same as Australia, sounds like a good trade :bored:. They have also spent Billions in Covid stimulus, so not much different in that respect either.

KRviator

18th Aug 2021, 03:18

So Sweden sacrificed 14,000 people to be about the same as Australia, sounds like a good trade :bored:. Except they are out working, visiting family, travelling, and - begad! - going to the playground without getting arrested! Yep, that does sound like a pretty good trade to me. :hmm:

They have also spent Billions in Covid stimulus, so not much different in that respect either.Except....They are out working, visiting family, travelling and - begad! - going to the playground without getting arrested! That still sounds like a pretty good trade to me....:ugh:

14,000 (their deaths) * 2.5 (our pop over theirs) = 35,000 Aussie deaths. 35,000 * 5.0M AUD = $175B AUD in 'statistical lives lost', without considering anything else. Still seems like a pretty good trade to me...:mad:

Turnleft080

18th Aug 2021, 03:19

Speaking of China, given apparently their vaccine doesn't work all that well. Their containment and eradication policy must work pretty well since they are doing the best by far than anyone else in the world.
Yep, they gave shipments to India did they not. India in a few months have gone from 500,000 cases down to a managable 25,000 cases in a few months. Whatever **** is in that injection I want some baby.

43Inches

18th Aug 2021, 03:30

https://www.berlin.de/corona/en/measures/

That is the current list of restrictions in Berlin, a lot of activities such as going to a restaurant, require either proof of vaccination or proof of negative covid test.

Germany lost 90,000 to the virus, if you applied Swedens death rate to Germany they would have lost 125,000. But that's not even a fair comparison as Germanys population density is way higher than Swedens by a significant factor and it's smack bang in teh middle of the EU meaning lots of traffic through it. At a guess you could double that 125,000 for Germany quite easily in adjusting for density had they let it rip.

https://www.government.se/articles/2021/05/government-plan-for-phasing-out-restrictions/

BTW, if Sweden was so open why are they lifting restrictions progressively?

And here they are;

https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/current-rules-and-recommendations

43Inches

18th Aug 2021, 03:41

But nobody has been factoring death data due to lockdown restrictions. Also, people not being able to visit a hospital due to 'other' health conditions.

So mostly, the data is flawed.

Already done that earlier, suicide rates are actually lower for 2020/21 than 2019, seems life pressures from work and travel exceed lock down pressures. Who would've thought it was more relaxing to stay at home and watch tv with the family. Pretty sure mortality rates for stupid activities also took a dive during lockdown, so it had positive outcomes for a lot of things as a side effect.

The only real argument is that we are sacrificing rights during the lockdown, and how far do you go.

43Inches

18th Aug 2021, 04:05

I agree it's all part and parcel, the stats are just that, numbers assigned to a chart. Now suicide rate might be stable but yeah there might be 50% are due to lockdown. The key really is, how much does locking down cost vs staying open, how many would suicide because they lose a family member to covid and feel lost and alone, what mental health effects would that have on the survivors if they knew they could have done more?. How many will blame themselves for bringing covid into their family and causing the death of a loved one.

It's not as though you let everyone die and suddenly everyone is going to be happy, pretty sure those affected will have grief, regret and anger. So the mental health issue applies to both cases of lockdown or not.

So far all indicators are it saves lives and in the long run you are no worse off than other countries economically that have had to deal with covid. Yes we sacrifice active freedoms, but, part of the community in affected countries cant leave home due to fear. Which is better? time might give us an answer, or maybe not...

turbantime

18th Aug 2021, 04:09

43Logic,

Did you take into account people not being able to access normal medical treatment, or the people that should off received normal medical treatment but were too scared of covid to get the medical treatment?
What makes you think that these same people would come forward for treatment if we let the virus rip through the population?

The rest I agree with.

SOPS

18th Aug 2021, 04:25

If you know anyone from WA that is currently in NSW and they want to
go home.. tell them to leave today.

I am pretty sure that the border will be shut to everyone from NSW as from tomorrow. No exceptions. Nil, nada, no way. And unless The Golden Girl can get the cases down, it could remain like that for the rest of the year.

I don’t want to know how you think this is a good/ bad/ terrible idea. I’m just warning people what I am pretty sure is about to happen.

Turnleft080

18th Aug 2021, 05:02

Turban,

Like I said, get rid of the testing and the lockdowns and lets see how bad this 'virus' really is.

Every day, I watch the media conferences. The fear campaign is incredible.
Plus the higher the cases per day, the more fear they will express. Gladys and Chant almost look like they are about to have a heart attack. Would be interesting to check their blood pressure during the conference. You are ruining my chances of re-election. That's what happens when you run with the science solutions with having total disrespect for common sense ones. To put that another way, we need to live with the planet not against it.

ruprecht

18th Aug 2021, 05:11

compressor stall

18th Aug 2021, 05:17

Talk of banning everybody except those who they constitutionally cannot.

43Inches

18th Aug 2021, 05:22

I would not be surprised if McGowan pushes to secede from Australia shortly, and I'm not joking.

They tried once before in 1933, got the votes but then lost power.

Capn Rex Havoc

18th Aug 2021, 06:02

43 In Now suicide rate might be stable but yeah there might be 50% are due to lockdown.
I saw a psychologist on the abc news last night who was saying that the suicide rate in teenagers has skyrocketed. The statistics she provided eclipses the "deaths" due Covid. She also said she is now seeing small children who are self harming due to the lockdown measures and home schooling.

43Inches

18th Aug 2021, 06:25

https://www.coronerscourt.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-06/Coroners%20Court%20Monthly%20Suicide%20Data%20Report%20-%20May%202021.pdf

You can read for yourself, no real change in stats or skyrocketing in any particular age group. That's victoria alone though.

MickG0105

18th Aug 2021, 06:33

43 In
I saw a psychologist on the abc news last night who was saying that the suicide rate in teenagers has skyrocketed. The statistics she provided eclipses the "deaths" due Covid. She also said she is now seeing small children who are self harming due to the lockdown measures and home schooling.
Do you have a name for that psychologist or any details on the statistics she quoted?

Foxxster

18th Aug 2021, 06:37

Its not about the facts anymore, its about identity politics !

SAD

nobody will say it.

but look at where the cases are. South west Sydney predominantly and also western Sydney.

you want to know why Gladys won’t do a proper lockdown there, Because she is afraid of being called racist. Yep. Afraid of being called racist by the kind of people who have just taken over in Afghanistan. There are hundreds of them in that part of Sydney. More like thousands. We saw them at their finest a few years ato at that protest in the centre of Sydney where they had their five year old children hold up signs saying behead all infidels. Did anyone really think they are going to worry about lockdown laws.But everyday we get Gladys at her press conference saying pretty please stay at home if you live in that area. Pwease. For gods sake.

43Inches

18th Aug 2021, 06:39

And that's the simple reason Dan just locks down the whole city or whole state, the suburb thing is a minefield of opinions.

Paragraph377

18th Aug 2021, 06:51

Do you have a name for that psychologist or any details on the statistics she quoted?
Mick, try googling the information. You seem to be proactive at googling statements or reports that support your premise that everything isn’t that bad. You are always on here saying how well the economy is going and how things are better than they seem. I call bollocks. There are countless economists online discussing how many businesses are failing. There are equally as many psychologists mentioning how counselling services are out of control. There are countless medical experts telling us that lockdowns are causing people to cancel doctors visits and things like cancer are going undiagnosed. Sure, online shopping, camper van and caravan sales and vehicle sales have skyrocketed. But ask the tourism operators and businesses, the taxi and transport industry and the hotel/motel industry how things are going and it’s a different story. Our economy has been broken in half. We have now been saddled with decades more debt. Using rigged stock market prices and inflated house prices as a measure of a strong economy is an absolute false reading.

WYOMINGPILOT

18th Aug 2021, 07:05

“All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)” I think somebody missed that memo.

43Inches

18th Aug 2021, 07:05

The hallmark of a capitalist economy is simply survival of the fittest, regardless of the situation. There is no such thing as a normal economy, it changes like life itself, a business this year might be gone next year depending on what it specialises in and demand dictates.

Business failure is just part of the process, sounds harsh, but hence the term "that's business".

Covid is just a blip or hurdle to make business adapt, could be this is the new normal and we are seeing the extinction level event for face to face companies that has been coming since the internet spawned. The measure of a countries economic output is its GDP, so if that is not changing much, business is coping or adapting enough. I provided the bankruptcy stats for 2019 a while back, was easy to see that the stats were down for 2020/21, why, a bad business loses more cash when its operating in harsh competition, than when its hibernating. The good businesses have "pivoted " to online and takeaway. Yeah general revenue is down across the board, but this ain't no depression, and when things do open up, people will spend their arses off. That's also why there has been no mass layoffs apart from aviation and tourism.

Gnadenburg

18th Aug 2021, 07:23

This isn't a blip. It's crushing in its inconsistency for business. It is more like a military occupation. This would be more apparent if Australia was not insulated in a number of ways.

MickG0105

18th Aug 2021, 08:12

Mick, try googling the information.
That's my first recourse. I found nothing, hence the question to the Capn.

You seem to be proactive at googling statements or reports that support your premise ...
Yes, using readily accessible verified data to support an argument or contention ... what a novel approach!

You are always on here saying how well the economy is going and how things are better than they seem.

Am I? Always on here saying how well the economy is going? Near as I can tell I haven't said boo about the performance of the Australian economy since the 7th and that was simply to state the facts that while the Australian economy shrank in 2020, by Q1-21 the economy had recovered such that it was larger than in Q4-19.

And when have I ever said 'things are better than they seem'? I generally look to quote data - it is what it is.

Separately there was our exchange relating to inflation here, in the US and Europe. You might recall that exchange was where you posted a link to an article that contradicted the point you were trying to make.

Ninthace

18th Aug 2021, 08:22

So many people putting trust in the Prime Minister and Premiers comments that once this magical number of 70 to 80% vaccination is reached, it will be freedom all around! Really? Show me the evidence. Show me the accurate data to prove that this will be the case, that 80% will do the trick. Not 81% and not 89.6% but 80% apparently. Show me the risk modelling factoring in known and latent risks.!

You might want to look at the UK data. Over 75% double jabbed, going on for 90% single jabbed, around 25k positive tests per day yet hospital admissions and deaths are low. We are suffering but we are functioning with the aid of ongoing public health measures. Most of us still mask up in shops and such, clean our hands and so on. It is not ideal, but things are returning to some semblance of normal.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

machtuk

18th Aug 2021, 08:24

43 In
I saw a psychologist on the abc news last night who was saying that the suicide rate in teenagers has skyrocketed. The statistics she provided eclipses the "deaths" due Covid. She also said she is now seeing small children who are self harming due to the lockdown measures and home schooling.

That's the hidden tragedy of all this BS! The younger ones will suffer & the grubby Govt couldn't care less as most don't vote! Remember grubby politicians face reelection so Its all about staying popular and in a cushy job!

Green.Dot

18th Aug 2021, 08:30

You might want to look at the UK data. Over 75% double jabbed, going on for 90% single jabbed, around 25k positive tests per day yet hospital admissions and deaths are low. We are suffering but we are functioning with the aid of ongoing public health measures. Most of us still mask up in shops and such, clean our hands and so on. It is not ideal, but things are returning to some semblance of normal.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

Yep. Get vaccinated.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x879/30d2dd7d_53bc_47d2_89d7_0fa6e3e42897_dcb2f20c05a3cf0f603e52a cc4003768bbd98194.jpeg

SOPS

18th Aug 2021, 08:58

nobody will say it.

but look at where the cases are. South west Sydney predominantly and also western Sydney.

you want to know why Gladys won’t do a proper lockdown there, Because she is afraid of being called racist. Yep. Afraid of being called racist by the kind of people who have just taken over in Afghanistan. There are hundreds of them in that part of Sydney. More like thousands. We saw them at their finest a few years ato at that protest in the centre of Sydney where they had their five year old children hold up signs saying behead all infidels. Did anyone really think they are going to worry about lockdown laws.But everyday we get Gladys at her press conference saying pretty please stay at home if you live in that area. Pwease. For gods sake.

No one was brave enough to say it up to now. Foxxster has nailed it.

Lead Balloon

18th Aug 2021, 09:30

It also happens to be the area in which the lion's share of drug money is laundered, and that's for the whole of Australia. People who distribute drugs as a vocation are generally unperturbed by minor irritations like laws.

Ladloy

18th Aug 2021, 09:56

nobody will say it.

but look at where the cases are. South west Sydney predominantly and also western Sydney.

you want to know why Gladys won’t do a proper lockdown there, Because she is afraid of being called racist. Yep. Afraid of being called racist by the kind of people who have just taken over in Afghanistan. There are hundreds of them in that part of Sydney. More like thousands. We saw them at their finest a few years ato at that protest in the centre of Sydney where they had their five year old children hold up signs saying behead all infidels. Did anyone really think they are going to worry about lockdown laws.But everyday we get Gladys at her press conference saying pretty please stay at home if you live in that area. Pwease. For gods sake.

The whole state is in some sort of lockdown now. If she didn't want to he called racist she may as well blanket the harsher rules throughout the state. Racism theory doesn't add up.

Lead Balloon

18th Aug 2021, 10:11

KRviator

18th Aug 2021, 10:21

That's my first recourse. I found nothing, hence the question to the Capn.I'm not sure I've read the same article, but I've seen several that seem to support that position. Here's but two...Every day, paediatrician and child psychiatrist Alberto Veloso sees children as young as five struggling with anxiety, depression and thoughts of harming themselves. But what is different is the number of those seeking help has gone up drastically during the pandemic.

"We are getting a 30 to 40 per cent increase in referrals and increasing demand that we have trouble keeping up [with]," Dr Veloso said. "We now have a waitlist. To see one of our clinicians is a couple of months. Source (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-18/melbourne-lockdown-mental-health-brett-sutton-response-covid/100384122)With Victoria undergoing its sixth lockdown, residents in rural areas of the state are waiting up to three months to see a psychologist, as the strain of repeated stay-at-home orders continues to grow.

Boort psychologist Naomi Malone said that, in every lockdown, more people sought help, and waiting times had blown out. "With our little practice, we usually get one or two enquiries a day, but [during] the last lockdown we had 30 enquiries a week," Dr Malone said. Source (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-06/lockdown-psychologist-waiting-times-country-victoria/100356292)Bear in mind these articles deal exclusively with those that have the courage to reach out for help. I don't know the percentage breakdowns of those that do, vs those that don't, but I'm fairly confident in saying it's heavily skewed towards those that don't and that being the case, there's an awful lot of people out there who need that help but aren't getting it....

MickG0105

18th Aug 2021, 10:39

I'm not sure I've read the same article, but I've seen several that seem to support that position. Here's but two...Bear in mind these articles deal exclusively with those that have the courage to reach out for help. I don't know the percentage breakdowns of those that do, vs those that don't, but I'm fairly confident in saying it's heavily skewed towards those that don't and that being the case, there's an awful lot of people out there who need that help but aren't getting it....
Yep, thanks for that. I found the ABC piece that featured Dr Veloso talking about increased demand for mental health services. That increased demand is not in dispute - I'm involved with a crisis support service and we've seen a 20 percent increase in demand since the pandemic started.

What I could not find was a psychologist that was on the ABC news last night who was saying that the suicide rate in teenagers has skyrocketed. Hence the question to the good Capn.

Lead Balloon

18th Aug 2021, 10:44

Yay! Australia's disgraceful rate of suicide is remaining stable. Go Australia!

Paragraph377

18th Aug 2021, 11:51

Increases in those needing counselling services and those committing suicide during COVID;
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/100305640

An estimated 2,500 cancer diagnosis missed in Victoria alone during COVID. That is just one State, as an example;
https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2021/cancer-diagnoses-drop-covid-19-lockdowns

Airlines, tourism, transport, hospitality, healthcare, live entertainment, gyms, health clubs and yes retail - all smashed. Many people think that because online sales are up that means the overall retail trade is up. Wrong, retail is made up of more than Amazon and EBay. ABC article;
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/100305954

My reason for posting this is because I’m so sick of people saying ‘most sections of the economy are good’, except for aviation. Bull****.

43Inches

18th Aug 2021, 12:26

No one said the economy was "good", the economy is "fine", that is we are not in recession or depression. But compared the rest of the world we are doing OK.

The argument is over how many businesses will/have failed because of covid strategy vs how many are dying. You can talk about mental health, businesses shutting down, etc, all the severe effects of this are RBS monitored, and the results in are that no mass suicides are happening and no mass bankruptcy is going on.

That does not mean people are not getting mentally or economically stressed, they are, but are they suicidal and going out of business, NO.

Look at the list of things that stress a person out, number 1 - Death of a loved one, financial stress is down the line about number 7. If you think being open and letting people die is somehow better for mental health than what is currently happening you are misguided. How many would be considering suicide after they bring covid home and infect and kill their loved ones.

If you think its better for the economy when small businesses close because their owners died of covid or masses of workers are on sick leave for isolation or until testing negative, you are misguided. If you think having 30% of your population scared to leave home because they will get sick is good for the economy, you are misguided. If you think the economic losses due to increased amounts of long term sick due to long covid will not cost the economy a huge amount, you may, well you know the drill.

Seriously if you think mental health and economic issues are only part of the lockdown solution, you may need a jackhammer to loosen up that grey matter.

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/the-implications-of-covid-19-for-mental-health-and-substance-use/

Thats from the USA, the pandemic in general is causing all the same issues, its not a "lockdown" thing.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7503043/

A study on Sweden being more free, found mental health issues were no different than Italy or China which had severe lockdowns.

Ninthace

18th Aug 2021, 14:30

SOPS

18th Aug 2021, 15:04

Or you could have a look at this
https://biblescienceforum.com/2021/07/17/a-manufactured-illusion-dr-david-martin-with-dr-reiner-fuellmich/
realise it is all BS and regain the1hr:22min you would have wasted.

https://medika.life/reiner-fuellmich-fact-checked-and-exposed-as-a-covid-conspiracy-con/
https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2021/07/fact-check-david-martin-interview-does-not-prove-that-there-are-no-variants-that-there's-no-pandemic-and-that-COVID-19-isn't-novel.html

And what worries me is that it appears that there are people here, that I assume are in charge of large jet aircraft, actually believe this conspiracy crap. It really concerns me.

( Although I must admit, now that I’m fully vaxed, my 4G phone has great 5G reception 😂😂)

hamfists

18th Aug 2021, 19:52

It may all be bull**** but if you’re trying to find truth on ABC, Reuters, AP, The New York Times or the American news networks you’ll be out of luck..the BBC is about 50/50

I don’t know what they teach in journalism school but it doesn’t include any sort of investigation

Xeptu

18th Aug 2021, 19:58

And what worries me is that it appears that there are people here, that I assume are in charge of large jet aircraft, actually believe this conspiracy crap. It really concerns me.

( Although I must admit, now that I’m fully vaxed, my 4G phone has great 5G reception 😂😂)

Morning All :) It's certainly eyebrow raising but when you think about it it's no different to God fearing people that think they're off to heaven when they die.

RodH

18th Aug 2021, 20:40

Paragraph377

18th Aug 2021, 20:58

Morning All :) It's certainly eyebrow raising but when you think about it it's no different to God fearing people that think they're off to heaven when they die.
If there is a higher source I doubt he would want the heavens infected with COVID. I don’t want to be the one though that has to tell that to those who believe they have a higher calling (politicians, elitists, airline CEO’s etc)

Gnadenburg

18th Aug 2021, 21:54

I read in the ABC News web site this morning that our illustrious Qld. premier has asked for 100 Commonwealth troops to be stationed along the NSW border to keep those pesky infected NSW people out of the Sunshine State.
Things are getting pretty nasty and desperate ATM.
No way things will change much until most of us have had two doses of the vaccine.
Until then Chaos will reign supreme.

Crossed the border 12 times into QLD and back to NSW on my hike yesterday afternoon. Beautiful! Didn't see a Queenlander. Glad they are being kept safe by Annastacia.

C441

18th Aug 2021, 22:02

I read in the ABC News web site this morning that our illustrious Qld. premier has asked for 100 Commonwealth troops to be stationed along the NSW border to keep those pesky infected NSW people out of the Sunshine State.
Things are getting pretty nasty and desperate ATM.
No way things will change much until most of us have had two doses of the vaccine.
Until then Chaos will reign supreme.
And then there's this from the 'beloved' Qld CHO…..:rolleyes:
“One case of Delta means we need a lockdown ... until we get 70 per cent of our population vaccinated,” she said on Wednesday. “If we don’t find the first case, we won’t be locking down for one or two weeks, we’ll be locking down for months.”

KRviator

18th Aug 2021, 22:11

Gnadenburg

18th Aug 2021, 22:16

No one said the economy was "good", the economy is "fine", that is we are not in recession or depression. But compared the rest of the world we are doing OK.

As we should be! We are a bountiful and lucky country. We are benefiting from world-wide stimulus driving a healthy balance of payments. There is confidence Australia's economy will bounce back quickly from the Delta blip. But is it a given with current leadership? Somebody has to say, moving forward into a post-COVID world, some Australians will have to die.

COVID is round one from the CCP btw. However which way you look at it. Australia needs a strong economy and strong leadership. We've been exposed in our COVID response on many fronts inviting CCP interference.

I'm sure there are never-ending links to support this argument but I won't fall into the trap of thinking anyone here clicks on them.

Foxxster

18th Aug 2021, 22:17

But, C441 she has kept 'em safe up there. She's done so well, she's been promoted to Governor of Queen-P's-Land.

Yep. A real top effort. You just have to look past the devastated families who missed seeing their dying relatives, or their funerals, the infant who was flown from the Northern River's to Sydney instead of Brisbane for treatment and died as a result and the comment that if you're rich enough, you can buy your way in to the state.

But she's kept them safe! No matter the cost!

and done a wonderful smear job on AstraZeneca purely for political purposes. She and her health nutter knew full well the weakness of the federal libs especially Morrison was the lack of Pfizer. But there was plenty of AstraZeneca. So we get the chook making up bull**** stories so she can get Pfizer and the quack doing a hatchet job on AstraZeneca not once but twice. Keeping Queensland safe. I think not.

Foxxster

18th Aug 2021, 22:23

None of the state of NSW is in 'lockdown'. The Local Government Areas in Sydney in which most of the cases are arising are not in 'lockdown'.

When the areas in Sydney in which most of the cases are arising are actually 'locked down', NSW will move from half-arsed to fully-arsed. The difficulty with going fully-arsed in those areas is that many of the residents are not used to and are not inclined to do what they've been told by the 'authorities'.

The same does not apply to much of the rest of NSW.

and they are of a group that is very vocal and quick to shout racist. And they are a group fully supported by the leftist agitators. That is why they are not property locked down.

when 550 out of 630 cases are in their area. And then same proportion of cases has been repeated for the last 6 or 7 weeks then it becomes a very expensive sick joke on the premier. Too scared of being called racist. How pathetic.

43Inches

18th Aug 2021, 22:36

To bring some sanity back to this argument;

The Western suburbs are just indicative of how and where communicable diseases best spread. Low socioeconomic areas with large family groups, hence why I said last year that Sydney was just lucky they got away with opening when Melbourne got it bad. Last year it was Melbourne that got it in the Western suburb groups and it spread among large family/school group areas. This year in Sydney and Melbourne is no different. Northern suburbs Sydney outbreak, rich people, small families, low population density, little social interaction. Easy to contact trace. Western suburbs, poorer families, more casual floating workforce, large families that congregate to assist and help each other out, large religious gatherings and following of all faiths (not just one particular faith). More dense and interactive population. Lower education levels also leads to mistrust of the system so can be hard to have any control over, especially rules about not visiting family etc.

I remember a few years back driving with a friend around town, next thing surrounded by all these colored folk in gowns and head-dress, friend turns and seriously asks. "Are you worried living among all these Muslims?", I responded "Dude these are Sikhs".

I don't know what Gladys has done other than single out certain shires. Dan got in early with community leaders and the like even donating funds to some local ethnic youth groups to help spread the message in those areas, he's also been keen to keep the focus on the virus and not particular suburbs or cultures.

Turnleft080

18th Aug 2021, 23:33

SHVC

18th Aug 2021, 23:36

Borders will not be opening anytime soon, Victoria 59% increase today and appears to be trending upwards. NSW finds itself in almost the same position as Victoria this time last yr, except Victoria numbers started to drop, NSW is yet to peak epidemiologist said this morning NSW will peak by 30% each incubation period. Going off that restrictions are not expected to ease until January 2022 and travel domestically March 2022. Last Airline standing will be????

Turnleft080

18th Aug 2021, 23:54

layman

18th Aug 2021, 23:55

43Inches

19th Aug 2021, 00:04

Foxxster

19th Aug 2021, 00:05

Just looking at reported vaccination rates, more than 95% in the 70+ age group in the ACT have received at least one dose (83+% Australia wide).

95% of ACT 70+ year olds should be double-dosed by mid-November.

Ever the optimist, why can’t all age groups reach a 95% vaccination rate?

Supply & the ability to deliver being the main limitations ... assuming we can get past ‘vaccine hesitancy’

a large cohort who do not want to get vaccinated are females of childbearing age. And more generally the young who the virus doesn’t effect as much as the elderly. While the overall US % was nearing 70% fully vaccinated, the younger age group was only 44%. And remember their experience has been a hell of a lot worse than ours in terms of deaths per million. So as our actions are heavily shaped by our own lived experience, it may be even more difficult to get our younger age groups up to the required 70% , 80%+

minigundiplomat

19th Aug 2021, 00:26

and done a wonderful smear job on AstraZeneca purely for political purposes. She and her health nutter knew full well the weakness of the federal libs especially Morrison was the lack of Pfizer. But there was plenty of AstraZeneca. So we get the chook making up bull**** stories so she can get Pfizer and the quack doing a hatchet job on AstraZeneca not once but twice. Keeping Queensland safe. I think not.

anyone who thinks the lockdowns are about anything but the politics needs to buy some magic beans next time they’re at the market. Listen to Chairman Dan, McGoose and Queen P at their pressers, and listen to how many times they reference NSW - over and over again. They see the lack of Pfizer and situation in NSW as political capital and hammer it every day. That’s why you’re locked dow or locked up.

Ladloy

19th Aug 2021, 00:33

anyone who thinks the lockdowns are about anything but the politics needs to buy some magic beans next time they’re at the market. Listen to Chairman Dan, McGoose and Queen P at their pressers, and listen to how many times they reference NSW - over and over again. They see the lack of Pfizer and situation in NSW as political capital and hammer it every day. That’s why you’re locked dow or locked up.
Maybe if Gladys didn't play politics to begin with we wouldn't be in this mess. Now we've spread delta across to NZ. It's easy to reference NSW when they have single-handedly ****** two nations.

galdian

19th Aug 2021, 00:33

So accept the virus has a greater impact on different age groups and target appropriately.

70+...95% 60-70...80% 40-60...66% below 40...50%....................or similar.

Hopefully the targets would be well exceeded, the minority who choose not to/desire not to be vaccinated should be of no concern.

ruprecht

19th Aug 2021, 00:58

Agent_86

19th Aug 2021, 01:02

681 in SYD today...

SOPS

19th Aug 2021, 01:07

681 in SYD today...

Thats the trigger for WA. I feel sorry for people from WA currently in NSW. They may not get home for months.

PoppaJo

19th Aug 2021, 01:14

Thats the trigger for WA. I feel sorry for people from WA currently in NSW. They may not get home for months.

The writing has been on the wall for a good month now.

KRviator

19th Aug 2021, 01:16

Thats the trigger for WA. I feel sorry for people from WA currently in NSW. They may not get home for months.You lot voted for him. Overwhelmingly. You reap what you sow...

Scooter Rassmussin

19th Aug 2021, 01:21

you have more hope getting to WA via India, they refuse to book locals into Hotel Quarantine even at your own expense .

Chris2303

19th Aug 2021, 01:34

681 in SYD today...

21 in AKL as at 1300NZST

Foxxster

19th Aug 2021, 01:36

21 in AKL as at 1300NZST

that escalated quickly.

Chris2303

19th Aug 2021, 01:38

that escalated quickly.

And likely to be more during the day

SOPS

19th Aug 2021, 01:43

21 in AKL as at 1300NZST

Originating from Sydney. Onya Gladys …. Gold Standard… we do it differently in NSW.

KRviator

19th Aug 2021, 01:54

SOPS

19th Aug 2021, 02:01

Can't blame Gladys for that one...They haven't had travel from Sydney since 22 June, IIRC.

You're better off asking how it got out out of quarantine. Or else, you should really lay the blame at the feet of the guilty party - those bloody Indians who came up with the Delta variant.

ok… but it’s from Sydney

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/19/up-to-100-may-already-be-infected-in-new-zealand-covid-outbreak-modelling-says

minigundiplomat

19th Aug 2021, 02:09

Maybe if Gladys didn't play politics to begin with we wouldn't be in this mess. Now we've spread delta across to NZ. It's easy to reference NSW when they have single-handedly ****** two nations.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/police-to-interview-infected-melbourne-couple-about-road-trip/news-story/5f5c29438163c149465d24bfa57fa17c

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/un-court-upholds-genocide-conviction-for-ratko-mladic-20210609-p57zae

Short memories. We’ve had plenty of Victorians fleeing Chairman Dan’s gold standard, spreading COVID as they go. Up here in Cairns, we can tell when Victorian’s are 3 days into lockdown by the sudden influx of Victoria - The Lockdown State plates as victorians flee.

43Inches

19th Aug 2021, 02:16

Why try and ignore facts and change history.

One Victorian spread it to one NSW at the start. Victoria then beat it, NSW played politics, played with fire and the fire got loose. No one else is playing politics with this, the comments coming from other leaders is frustration that NSW screwed the pooch and now it's rife everywhere. Since then large numbers of people that have visited NSW or from there have traveled interstate with it and spread it in numbers that grow rapidly, including NZ.

This outbreak is squarely on the NSW gov and Gladys and her team, remember that at the polling booth.

It is possible to beat it when numbers are low, Melbourne proved that. Wait too long while numbers simmer, well then it's chasing your tail like Sydney is doing right now.

Had NSW done what everyone else had done instead of trying to prove some misguided contact tracing worked and just locked down hard we could be having this conversation in a pub anywhere in Australia.

Ladloy

19th Aug 2021, 02:19

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/police-to-interview-infected-melbourne-couple-about-road-trip/news-story/5f5c29438163c149465d24bfa57fa17c

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/un-court-upholds-genocide-conviction-for-ratko-mladic-20210609-p57zae

Short memories. We’ve had plenty of Victorians fleeing Chairman Dan’s gold standard, spreading COVID as they go. Up here in Cairns, we can tell when Victorian’s are 3 days into lockdown by the sudden influx of Victoria - The Lockdown State plates as victorians flee.

And that's a reasonable excuse to be mad. It doesn't detract from the NSW government's mishandling.

MickG0105

19th Aug 2021, 02:33

ok… but it’s from Sydney

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/19/up-to-100-may-already-be-infected-in-new-zealand-covid-outbreak-modelling-says
As it says in the article you have provided a link to;

The [New Zealand] government closed the trans-Tasman bubble (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/new-zealand-shuts-australia-travel-bubble-as-sydneys-covid-outbreak-worsens) on 25 July after the outbreak in New South Wales. Anyone returning from New South Wales was required to go to into quarantine. Travellers from Victoria were required to self-isolate for three days and produce two negative tests. But New Zealanders returning from other parts of Australia were given a week-long grace period to return without having to isolate. Those travellers were required to have a pre-departure test before arrival but the emergence of the virus has raised questions over whether that line of defence was breached.

Ardern said there was 100% compliance with the rules made on the closure of the bubble, but despite this health officials would be producing a list of all arrivals from Australia into New Zealand during that period and contacting them again.

So, quarantine-free travel to New Zealand ceased three weeks ago; Adern maintains that there has been 100 percent compliance with pre-departure testing, quarantine and self-isolation measures since then; and yet they are have an outbreak. It is very likely that one of two things has happened; either the measures that the New Zealand government put in place were not entirely effective or there hasn't been 100 percent compliance. Either/or or both, they are factors entirely within the remit of the New Zealand government.

Gnadenburg

19th Aug 2021, 02:40

remember that at the polling booth.

Just what Australia needs. Another partisan political influencer!

Paragraph377

19th Aug 2021, 02:56

https://coronavirusexplained.ukri.org/en/article/pub0008/

Perhaps some of these ‘mystery’ infections have come via the post with your Mail, EBay purchases, Amazon deliveries, Uber eats and flower deliveries? Have our fearless politicians and their CMO’s explored this possibility? Time to shut down everything and go into underground bunkers (only if you have a vaccine passport) and pop back up in 3 years time. Like a post-nuclear winter.

Turnleft080

19th Aug 2021, 03:44

21 in AKL as at 1300NZST
Those bloody Bondi surfers from 7 weeks ago that couldn't hold on, did their business in the pond and it just happens to turn up in the Auckland harbour. Welcome to the party pals.

Torukmacto

19th Aug 2021, 03:50

250,000 infections would get us out of this quicker . Fear would have lines at vaccination centres , federal government would flood country with vaccines and we would forget this whack a mole attitude .

43Inches

19th Aug 2021, 03:51

Just what Australia needs. Another partisan political influencer!

I couldn't give a damn Gnads, not my state, however I don't want to hear anyone complaining in her next term when she stuffs it again and you had the chance to remove her. That's where the public have their chance to say if these policies were right or wrong. If you don't understand it's your vote that determines policy in these times, then you are lost.

Why do you think McGowan keeps slamming borders shut to WA. Because he won an election in a complete wipeout of the opposition during covid. That result gave him the mandate to keep doing it as needed and more, whether that was the intention of the voters or not, that's what they endorsed.

Chronic Snoozer

19th Aug 2021, 04:25

Thats the trigger for WA. I feel sorry for people from WA currently in NSW. They may not get home for months.

And a big vote of confidence in WA's hotel quarantine. It works fine when the majority of people aren't infected....McGowan is rightfully sh1t scared about the parlous state of affairs in the state's health system.

ruprecht

19th Aug 2021, 04:32

Despite al the rhetoric, quite a few people in WA have relatives in “The East”, not to mention all the British expats who live there.

Sooner or later, WA is going to have to open up.

blubak

19th Aug 2021, 05:04

Melbourne figures out. 57 cases, 44 in iso, leaving 13 in the community which is the danger figure. Funny how Vic gov like to leak this stuff around 0830am, and NSW go all out bang at 1100am. Days of our lives stuff.
54 out of the 57 are linked & from looking at the past few days they are often able to link the mystery cases pretty quickly.
Many of the cases announced today are a result of 13 day tests which have still come up positive so a further 14 day quarantine for those individuals.
Andrews said although they would much rather see low numbers this is not a day to panic over the numbers as it was somewhat expected.
Last year was a disaster down here but to give them some credit it looks like it is under control & not exploding all through the state or even the suburbs.

Lead Balloon

19th Aug 2021, 05:22

A rough graph of the current options and projections:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1368x890/673fb867_0a63_4307_8645_fbb964385bab_9a8cfd3f323df76659a8b09 03840500d4a68bc9c.png

lc_461

19th Aug 2021, 05:29

Much easier to prove, to persuade a person in the age range that gets hit by 20-50% mortality rates that vaccinating is in their interest. As you can see reading back the main issue is the younger folk believing it's like the flu, until they get it and then somehow changing their tune, add to that some well placed conspiracies and bad media.

If you again reference the ACT - the day they opened registrations for 30-39 years olds something like 10K registered in 24 hours. I think overwhelmingly young people are ready and wanting to be vaccinated. They are after all the ones bearing the economic brunt, having to manage home schooling and worried about their parents and children getting unwell at both ends of the age spectrum. Also, they are the ones "superspreading" via workplaces. Until now, unless they meet the criteria, they haven't been eligible for vaccination. Thousands in NSW/ACT/VIC have got AZ in the last few weeks because they are sick of waiting.
Anecdotally, the largest group needing to sway is 50-70 year olds unwilling to get AZ, "waiting for Pfizer". Everyone can make their own choice re vaccination - but I really hope they don't get priority over young people who haven't had the 'choice'.

Xeptu

19th Aug 2021, 06:36

Sooner or later, WA is going to have to open up.

Probably later, much later, very much later :)

SOPS

19th Aug 2021, 06:42

I couldn't give a damn Gnads, not my state, however I don't want to hear anyone complaining in her next term when she stuffs it again and you had the chance to remove her. That's where the public have their chance to say if these policies were right or wrong. If you don't understand it's your vote that determines policy in these times, then you are lost.

Why do you think McGowan keeps slamming borders shut to WA. Because he won an election in a complete wipeout of the opposition during covid. That result gave him the mandate to keep doing it as needed and more, whether that was the intention of the voters or not, that's what they endorsed.

And listening to talk back today, it seems most ( not all ) people are 100 percent behind Mark.

goodonyamate

19th Aug 2021, 08:54

And listening to talk back today, it seems most ( not all ) people are 100 percent behind Mark.

only old retired blokes with no life who don’t fly anymore yet still frequent aviation sites listen to WA talkback. Either way, I wouldn’t call a talkback audience a good sample.

he’s done a great job. Last month, ambulance ramp hours blew through 5000 in a month. That’s 5000 hours of an ambulance sitting outside an ED with a patient inside, unable to get treatment, and with the ambulance unable to be redeployed elsewhere. It’s no wonder he’s so **** scared of COVID.

he’s done nothing. He’s a pathetic man who jumps onto the latest public opinion issue and follows the masses.

so while you smugly sit in WA now jumping on here every day to share the latest tidbit of minor information and take joy in the decline or end of many pilots careers, remember that not too far into the future, when WA residents see the rest of Australia getting on with life while you’re stuck in the one place (may not bother you personally but it will annoy many expats and others), we’ll be sitting here flipping the bird at you lot saying ‘couldn’t give a toss’

SOPS

19th Aug 2021, 09:30

only old retired blokes with no life who don’t fly anymore yet still frequent aviation sites listen to WA talkback. Either way, I wouldn’t call a talkback audience a good sample.

he’s done a great job. Last month, ambulance ramp hours blew through 5000 in a month. That’s 5000 hours of an ambulance sitting outside an ED with a patient inside, unable to get treatment, and with the ambulance unable to be redeployed elsewhere. It’s no wonder he’s so **** scared of COVID.

he’s done nothing. He’s a pathetic man who jumps onto the latest public opinion issue and follows the masses.

so while you smugly sit in WA now jumping on here every day to share the latest tidbit of minor information and take joy in the decline or end of many pilots careers, remember that not too far into the future, when WA residents see the rest of Australia getting on with life while you’re stuck in the one place (may not bother you personally but it will annoy many expats and others), we’ll be sitting here flipping the bird at you lot saying ‘couldn’t give a toss’

I assure you I take no joy in the end of anyone’s job in aviation.. I have many friends still working or tying to work in aviation.

goodonyamate

19th Aug 2021, 09:44

I assure you I take no joy in the end of anyone’s job in aviation.. I have many friends still working or tying to work in aviation.

i genuinely hope that’s the case. We get it. Can’t deny WA is in a good place now. McGowan has done NOTHING outside of lock everyone out and claim victory. People are so focussed on COVID they forget about the other stuff. Those ambulance times are diabolical. He won’t spend a cent of all WA’s apparent riches on basic amenities for the public, so where does it all go. When covid does get there, he’s finished.

Chronic Snoozer

19th Aug 2021, 12:48

i genuinely hope that’s the case. We get it. Can’t deny WA is in a good place now. McGowan has done NOTHING outside of lock everyone out and claim victory. People are so focussed on COVID they forget about the other stuff. Those ambulance times are diabolical. He won’t spend a cent of all WA’s apparent riches on basic amenities for the public, so where does it all go. When covid does get there, he’s finished.

McGowan has done a politician's Bradbury.

Turnleft080

19th Aug 2021, 14:03

Gladys said today we now have to live with this virus. ( Where did this common sense come from). Well if they started with that philosophy from scratch, we wouldn't be in this mess now. Then Scotty says we must suppress the virus. Making up policy on the spot. Next question the UK opened up at 50% with a population of 63 mil. Then want us to open up at 80% with a population of 25 mil. Um, our CHOs obviously failed elementary mathematics never mind physiology talk about that another time.

Australopithecus

19th Aug 2021, 20:08

If we had started with that philosophy a lot more of us wouldn’t be in this mess now because they'd be dead. So you’re right on that point. Someone failed elementary mathematics, that’s for sure.

43Inches

19th Aug 2021, 22:09

Today the talk in NSW is 70% fully vaxxed is the threshold, with most venues including Gyms and such being allowed open with provision you have to present proof of full vaccination to enter. This is finally in line with what the euro zone is doing. Not arguing if it's right or not to persecute non vaxxers, but that is what is happening overseas and is working to get those businesses going again.

Looks a lot like some of the trouble stirring group have suddenly depart this realm, willingly or not who know's.

MickG0105

19th Aug 2021, 22:11

A new study out of the UK released in pre-print - Impact of Delta on viral burden and vaccine effectiveness against new SARS-CoV-2 infections in the UK’ by Koen B. Pouwels et al. (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ndm.ox.ac.uk/files/coronavirus/covid-19-infection-survey/finalfinalcombinedve20210816.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjMh7K3i77yAhX48XMBHXEfD6EQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1jMN1rrjcRYa_BRdrBT52W)

Some interesting professional commentary on same here (https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-preprint-looking-at-the-impact-of-the-delta-variant-on-vaccine-effectiveness/).

minigundiplomat

19th Aug 2021, 22:46

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/828x985/e4433e7a_c437_4dd8_a92b_e74a3ec97226_d5516565d7aa4cea0441703 ae1db8eb9f78382eb.jpeg

Potsie Weber

19th Aug 2021, 23:15

Foxxster

19th Aug 2021, 23:22

Well it appears that today old Gladys will finally overcome her fear of being labelled a racist and introduce tougher lockdown measures in some suburbs. Strange how this comes after weeks of inaction but the day after reports of people in the state liberal party making plans to select a new leader should she either step aside, not likely or be forced out. Nothing like seeing your own job on the line to focus the mind and actually do the right thing.

as for 70% and those fully vaccinated might be allowed to go back to the gym or get a haircut. Well big deal. And why have we not actually seen the complete details of what happens at 6 million vaccines. That seems to have been forgotten. And the full details of what happens at 70% and then at 80%. Are we five years old. That is how we are being treated. Or has it taken the useless health public servants two months to do what should take two days.

Turnleft080

19th Aug 2021, 23:40

No Bali holidays until 2028! Maybe this will see the sandgropers revolt on State Daddy and his zero COVID!

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/coronavirus/covid-19-west-australians-may-not-be-able-to-travel-to-bali-until-2028-ng-b881974867z
Bali will find a way. The Russians will flood the market with their stack of charter operators. Just like they did after the bombing. The Russians are coming. They love Bali more than us. Russian men that is.

43Inches

19th Aug 2021, 23:43

as for 70% and those fully vaccinated might be allowed to go back to the gym or get a haircut. Well big deal.

I think you miss the point that if Gyms and Salons are allowed to open then everything else will be as well. Just need a few political kicks in the bum to reopen those borders.

Bali will find a way. The Russians will flood the market with their stack of charter operators. Just like they did after the bombing. The Russians are coming. They love Bali more than us. Russian men that is.

Bali is not open anyway, even if you wanted to go, from what's been said its' empty and has been gutted. I think most are missing the point that a lot of places wont let you in unless you are fully vaccinated anyway, even if Australia does let you out. A lot of posters keep talking like this has only affected Australia somehow.

Foxxster

19th Aug 2021, 23:58

I think you miss the point that if Gyms and Salons are allowed to open then everything else will be as well. Just need a few political kicks in the bum to reopen those borders.

Then what is the 80% for if everything is already open. The complete lack of any detail is utterly disgraceful. Nine weeks and we have nothing except the last day a rumour that we can go to the gym. They need to take a very large broom through the health department bureaucracy and do a major cull.

Bali is not open anyway, even if you wanted to go, from what's been said its' empty and has been gutted. I think most are missing the point that a lot of places wont let you in unless you are fully vaccinated anyway, even if Australia does let you out. A lot of posters keep talking like this has only affected Australia somehow.

I have an awful feeling that international travel will be plagued by the problems the uk are having with their traffic light system for countries. One day a country is green, the next it turns orange or red. It is the same situation we have here with border closures. Who is going to book anything when at a whim you can get stuck overseas in two weeks quarantine or need to do the same when you return. Or simply cannot go .

Xeptu

20th Aug 2021, 00:01

Then there's the question of will the US recognise all vaccines as part of their vaccine passport requirements or just theirs.

43Inches

20th Aug 2021, 00:01

I have an awful feeling that international travel will be plagued by the problems the uk are having with their traffic light system for countries. One day a country is green, the next it turns orange or red. It is the same situation we have here with border closures. Who is going to book anything when at a whim you can get stuck overseas in two weeks quarantine or need to do the same when you return. Or simply cannot go .

Yeah It's pretty much playing out like the states here overseas with international borders. I can't see normal international holidays being a thing for a number of years.

Foxxster

20th Aug 2021, 00:04

Then there's the question of will the US recognise all vaccines as part of their vaccine passport requirements or just theirs.

the uk still cannot travel directly to the us for this reason, but us residents can travel to the uk. I think AstraZeneca is the issue. The us hasn’t approved it so have not used it themselves. It was a sticking point a couple of months ago when they started negotiating. Appears it hasn’t been resolved.

WingNut60

20th Aug 2021, 00:11

Yeah It's pretty much playing out like the states here overseas with international borders. I can't see normal international holidays being a thing for a number of years.
One significant driver that's not getting much of a mention here is overseas students.
I am aware that universities have ramped up distance ed. and on-line tutoring but I am sure that is not as financially rewarding as having dorms full of foreign students.

43Inches

20th Aug 2021, 00:11

the uk still cannot travel directly to the us for this reason, but us residents can travel to the uk. I think AstraZeneca is the issue. The us hasn’t approved it so have not used it themselves. It was a sticking point a couple of months ago when they started negotiating. Appears it hasn’t been resolved.

I was reading the other day that the AZ issue was purely the issues with the final phase testing not having sufficient over 65s in the cohort. For some reason AZ is not even seeking approval from the FDA for use within the US, so who knows if that will be fixed. As for it being the reason for not being let into the US I have no idea on that.

One significant driver that's not getting much of a mention here is overseas students.
I am aware that universities have ramped up distance ed. and on-line tutoring but I am sure that is not as financially rewarding as having dorms full of foreign stude

It was definitely in the news early on, but public sentiment is way off on those lot. Letting a few students in from places like China or India to fill the coffers of perceived rich/rorting universities is a political minefield.

minigundiplomat

20th Aug 2021, 00:13

I have an awful feeling that international travel will be plagued by the problems the uk are having with their traffic light system for countries. One day a country is green, the next it turns orange or red. It is the same situation we have here with border closures. Who is going to book anything when at a whim you can get stuck overseas in two weeks quarantine or need to do the same when you return. Or simply cannot go .

that was an issue a few months back but on the whole has been resolved. It’s nothing like the nonsense we have here.

Xeptu

20th Aug 2021, 00:25

I can just see it coming, The vaccines are good for about 5 months before you need a booster, eventually that probably won't be free. How many shots do I take before I conclude do I really need to be doing this.

Capn Rex Havoc

20th Aug 2021, 00:31

43In - Looks a lot like some of the trouble stirring group have suddenly depart this realm, willingly or not who know's.

Who exactly, are you referring to here, and what "trouble" have this fictitious group of yours been causing?

nomilk

20th Aug 2021, 00:33

Germany and Singapore start a "vaccinated travel lane". Lots of tests, but opening up for business travellers and tourists.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-vaccinated-travel-lane-which-allows-travel-without

Global Aviator

20th Aug 2021, 00:35

Then there's the question of will the US recognise all vaccines as part of their vaccine passport requirements or just theirs.

The answer is yes, like many countries. They will accept any WHO recognised vaccine.

Xeptu

20th Aug 2021, 00:39

43In -

Who exactly, are you referring to here, and what "trouble" have this fictitious group of yours been causing?

Bueller! he's having a day off

43Inches

20th Aug 2021, 00:41

Germany and Singapore start a "vaccinated travel lane". Lots of tests, but opening up for business travellers and tourists.

VTL flights is new, and airlines already offering it. So you can only get on the flight if you are fully vaccinated, looks like more and more you will be corralled into getting vaccinated whether you like it or not. That or you will be never leaving the country.

KRviator

20th Aug 2021, 00:46

So you can only get on the flight if you are fully vaccinated, looks like more and more you will be corralled into getting vaccinated whether you like it or not. That or you will be never leaving the country. your home state.Fixed it for you.

Turnleft080

20th Aug 2021, 00:57

Yeah It's pretty much playing out like the states here overseas with international borders. I can't see normal international holidays being a thing for a number of years.
Back up a bit. Lets get back to the objective. That is to get to this so called 70/80%. When that happens everyone has a differing opinion of who and what opens. Scotty himself said, we treat this like the flu. If that's the case, then that means we go back to living 2019 style. Pollies will squabble over this as we know. This comes to another question? One death is way to many at the moment with present lockdowns, what number will they accept when we get to 80%.
Just one good thing came out of yesterday. That is, Gladys said "we have to learn to live with the virus and we have to look at hospitalisations numbers instead of cases."

-41

20th Aug 2021, 01:09

How will the Feds encourage recalcitrant State leaders to introduce sensible privileges to the vaccinated? For instance, what passive measures do they have to penalise Mcgowan without losing federal seats in WA.

Xeptu

20th Aug 2021, 01:12

SOPS

20th Aug 2021, 01:22

43Inches

20th Aug 2021, 01:23

Back up a bit. Lets get back to the objective. That is to get to this so called 70/80%. When that happens everyone has a differing opinion of who and what opens. Scotty himself said, we treat this like the flu. If that's the case, then that means we go back to living 2019 style. Pollies will squabble over this as we know. This comes to another question? One death is way to many at the moment with present lockdowns, what number will they accept when we get to 80%.
Just one good thing came out of yesterday. That is, Gladys said "we have to learn to live with the virus and we have to look at hospitalisations numbers instead of cases."

I think today they pretty much announced what is going to happen, hit 70%, venues that are vulnerable to virus spread, pubs, Gyms, restaurants can open with proof of vaccination required to attend. Businesses will be fine because one, they can trade and two, it gives them some control over having sick loss of productivity. I think that's pretty much saying what is going to happen for at least the next year or few. If it works out in NSW and people accept it, then Vic, Qld and SA will follow. WA, who knows, McGowan was given a clear mandate in this years election what they do, forget them, that's up to West Aussies to sort out for themselves, let the rest of Australia deal with their problems first.

-41

20th Aug 2021, 01:24

43Inches

20th Aug 2021, 01:27

-41

20th Aug 2021, 01:32

You want to penalise Mark and hope they won’t lose Federal seats. Good luck with that.
Couldn’t care less whom is in power, they are all inept. Selfishly just want to get back to racing narrow bodies across the bight, and earn a living again.

Feds can legislate who can enter the country. States can use emergency powers to control movement within a state, including quarantine.
Thanks. Will have to get that sorted, I am hoping big business will turn the screws on Mcgowan.

Capn Rex Havoc

20th Aug 2021, 01:42

The answer is yes, like many countries. They will accept any WHO recognised vaccine.

I believe Canada wasn't accepting AstraZenica.......

Then there's the question of will the US recognise all vaccines as part of their vaccine passport requirements or just theirs. US does not have a vaccine passport system.

Chris2303

20th Aug 2021, 01:48

31 total in NZ today, including 3 in WLG.

1500 update from the PM will advise on lockdown extensions

I find it a little bit ironic that she is being lauded for her handling but she is the one who let the virus in. Mind you, we'd all be dead by now if the other lot were in power.

WingNut60

20th Aug 2021, 01:57

Can the Federal government open a quarantine free international route for travellers with the immunisations, SIA-PER. or does WA have the ability to close the international border?
Mcgowan's latest declaration of no Bali travel until they are zero cases covid free. Who actually runs the Federal borders ?
Are you sure he said that?

The only reference that I can find is Ross Taylor saying "“He (McGowan) effectively said until Bali is COVID zero, West Australians aren’t going back,” Taylor said."
That's one way to read what he said.
I believe that what he said was "border closures and targeted lock downs will remain options even when 80 per cent of the population has been vaccinated"
As the president and founder of the "Indonesia Institute Incorporated" he may have particular concerns about this possibility but I think this response tends towards being a "knee-jerk" reaction.

Now, for the others, if your hearing has been affected by multiple years of skolling Resch's drain water in the local bowlo then maybe you heard him say something different.
But it's not what I heard him say.

cynphil

20th Aug 2021, 02:27

I believe Canada wasn't accepting AstraZenica.......

US does not have a vaccine passport system.

Canada does accept Astra Zeneca…

MickG0105

20th Aug 2021, 02:41

I believe Canada wasn't accepting AstraZenica.......

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1943x798/screenshot_20210820_123933_chrome_485ae38ca8b426802a8af811fc 3b2eca4dcc41ff.jpg
From https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/covid-vaccinated-travellers-entering-canada

Turnleft080

20th Aug 2021, 04:35

KRviator

20th Aug 2021, 05:14

Here we go again....:ugh::mad:

A mother in northern New South Wales has been denied entry to Queensland for vital tests on a cyst on her four-month-old baby's brain, as border restrictions tighten.

Amy Gerang-Hall, who lives at Bangalow in the NSW north coast border region, had received a medical exemption to cross the border with her daughter, Davina, for a specialist MRI scan. However, Queensland Health has since told Ms Gerang-Hall it is treating all NSW patients as if they were from a hotspot.

"If we were to go there, we could only go into the Emergency Department and her neurologist would have to come and see her there, and everyone would be in PPE [Personal Protective Equipment]. "But she needs to have an MRI, which means she would have to go to the MRI department, and because that was in the hospital, we weren't allowed."And from abit further down in the article:
Chris Ingall, a paediatrician in Lismore, NSW, said he was concerned border complications were placing infants' and children's lives at risk.Dr Ingall said it felt like déjà vu from a similar situation in 2020.

"Even last weekend we had four babies and children who required emergency care.

"Three of those four we had to send down to Newcastle because Queensland Health dictated that the parent would have to go into separate, self-funded hotel accommodation for two weeks of quarantine away from their child," he said. "So, the parents say, 'Look, I will just have to go south, even though I am moving away from my supports and family' and so forth. "We have babies who are breastfeeding, establishing breastfeeding, who have bowel obstructions, who have respiratory illness requiring ventilator support.

"There is this intractable Queensland Health approach, which I think is putting children's and babies' lives at risk."

It's been a year since Ballina couple Kimberley and Scott Brown lost one of their unborn twins. After suffering pregnancy complications, Ms Brown was flown to Sydney for emergency surgery, instead of a much closer Queensland hospital due to the border closure.Source (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-20/tough-qld-border-restrictions-nsw-baby-refused-vital-brain-scan/100393322)

ruprecht

20th Aug 2021, 05:55

I’d like my QLD flood levy back, please.

compressor stall

20th Aug 2021, 06:01

Noticed on some FIR NOTAMs overseas no Q required if vaccinated… but second jab must be not more than 9 months old.

booster certificates anyone?

SOPS

20th Aug 2021, 07:35

West Australians have until midnight Wednesday to get home. After that, it’s too late. And I’m guessing it will be until a least the end of the year, but I hope I’m wrong.

KRviator

20th Aug 2021, 07:38

I'm going to absolutely pi$$ myself when it gets into WA. Even if I'm off work for another 6 months, it'll be worth it...:}

SOPS

20th Aug 2021, 07:42

I'm going to absolutely pi$$ myself when it gets into WA. Even if I'm off work for another 6 months, it'll be worth it...:}

I hate to point this out, but Delta has already been in WA. A women came back from Sydney in June and later tested positive for Delta. On the one case alone, Perth and Mandurah went into a hard and fast lockdown for 4 days.. and the outbreak was controlled.

WingNut60

20th Aug 2021, 08:23

West Australians have until midnight Wednesday to get home. After that, it’s too late. And I’m guessing it will be until a least the end of the year, but I hope I’m wrong.
The warning has been in the winds for several days now.
There are no surprises here.

It'll be pretty hard for someone to claim that they "got caught"

Turnleft080

20th Aug 2021, 09:00

The warning has been in the winds for several days now.
There are no surprises here.

It'll be pretty hard for someone to claim that they "got caught"
Meanwhile back in Vic, Dan was more angry ( like not happy Jan add) saying "the government done our bit if numbers rise it is entirely your fault. We will lockdown harder." I didn't think we could lockdown any harder. I heard on 3aw take off one more hour off exercise, extend curfew 8pm-6am, kill the gardeners and take away. "On a knife edge".

Chronic Snoozer

20th Aug 2021, 09:43

I'm going to absolutely pi$$ myself when it gets into WA. Even if I'm off work for another 6 months, it'll be worth it...:}

Yes champ. That's the attitude to have.

MickG0105

20th Aug 2021, 09:43

I have been trying to find info (maybe someone can) on the sudden disappearance of the Wuhan, Alpha, Beta, Gamma variants. On most graphs they are down to < 2%. Vaccines pretty march started at the beginning of the year so it wasn't the vaccines that kicked them out. Did the Delta variant just push them aside. ...
It's straightforward evolution, survival of the fittest, where fitness is measured in infectiousness.

The coronavirus has the potential to throw up a mutation every time it infects a cell and produces more of itself (ie. each 'generation'). Some of the mutations yield nothing in particular but every once in a while a mutation that changes the spike protein will make that variant more infectious. If that new variant is significantly more infectious and occurs in a relatively uninfected population, it's off to the races. Typically the more infectious variant outperforms its forebear and becomes the new dominant strain, initially in that population. The wonder of international air travel tends to be what connects a new variant to broader populations.

Thus when the 'original' Wuhan reached the UK that relatively uninfected population become the feedstock for the alpha-variant, about 50 percent more contagious than the original. In South Africa the original variant threw up the beta-variant, again about 50 percent more contagious than the original. Gamma probably first developed in South America but manifested itself in Japan. Delta appears to be one of the first variants on a variant, in that it almost certainly mutated from a non-original strain, likely alpha-variant, in the Indian population. It is estimated to be 60 percent more infectious than alpha and thus quickly dominated the previous dominant variant.

There's also been a raft of other variants - epsilon, zeta, eta, theta, etc - recorded that have bobbed in a specific sub-populations but that have either been not significantly more infectious than their forbear or emerged too late such that they couldn't achieve dominance.

PoppaJo

20th Aug 2021, 09:47

Melbourne is about to explode and it appears a Kiwi like lockdown is being announced in the morning, for the whole state.

Turnleft080

20th Aug 2021, 10:28

It's straightforward evolution, survival of the fittest, where fitness is measured in infectiousness.

The coronavirus has the potential to throw up a mutation every time it infects a cell and produces more of itself (ie. each 'generation'). Some of the mutations yield nothing in particular but every once in a while a mutation that changes the spike protein will make that variant more infectious. If that new variant is significantly more infectious and occurs in a relatively uninfected population, it's off to the races. Typically the more infectious variant outperforms its forebear and becomes the new dominant strain, initially in that population. The wonder of international air travel tends to be what connects a new variant to broader populations.

Thus when the 'original' Wuhan reached the UK that relatively uninfected population become the feedstock for the alpha-variant, about 50 percent more contagious than the original. In South Africa the original variant threw up the beta-variant, again about 50 percent more contagious than the original. Gamma probably first developed in South America but manifested itself in Japan. Delta appears to be one of the first variants on a variant, in that it almost certainly mutated from a non-original strain, likely alpha-variant, in the Indian population. It is estimated to be 60 percent more infectious than alpha and thus quickly dominated the previous dominant variant.

There's also been a raft of other variants - epsilon, zeta, eta, theta, etc - recorded that have bobbed in a specific sub-populations but that have either been not significantly more infectious than their forbear or emerged too late such that they couldn't achieve dominance.
Thanks for that MickG0105. Makes you wonder, the longer you lockdown the more time their is to generate a new variant.

Potsie Weber

20th Aug 2021, 10:50

What happens when we get to the end of the Greek alphabet for variants? Is that when this ends or do we move onto Roman numerals?

MickG0105

20th Aug 2021, 10:59

Thanks for that MickG0105. Makes you wonder, the longer you lockdown the more time their is to generate a new variant.
You're welcome.

And yes and no on the latter. Each infected person is an incubator for a potential new variant. If you keep the number of infected down, you reduce the likelihood of a new, significantly more infectious variant emerging. Further, if you have measures in place to limit spread you can prevent a new variant from gaining a foothold. That's why the way out of this is likely to be multifaceted - at the very least a combination of vaccination and some infection control measures.

Lead Balloon

20th Aug 2021, 11:00

That's why the Omega strain is going to be 'interesting'. We need to hope against hope that the 'light at the end of the tunnel' isn't the glow of the Omega or some other strain that's mutated to luminescence.

Paragraph377

20th Aug 2021, 11:30

I’m still curious as to one thing - if ‘technically’ they don’t know/can’t prove how or what caused the virus, or what causes it to mutate, then how can the Government actually know what the real solution for eradicating it is? Are lockdowns, masks and the current vaccines really going to work long term? Where does root cause come into this - it’s pretty difficult to resolve this pandemic if you don’t even know what the root cause is in the first place? For Melbourne to go into lockdown 6 times it shows that the current measures are not effective because the virus does keep coming back and spreading.

TBH, I don’t need a lecture in the theories of mask wearing and lockdowns to minimise the spread, I get it. I’m looking at the prospect of this - if you don’t know what causes the problem how can you truly fix it? Because with these variants it looks like we could be doing this tango for years, and that is not only unsustainable, it is not addressing the root cause, and without a root cause how can they create a workable ‘fix’?

PoppaJo

20th Aug 2021, 11:31

I know the rest of the year is going to be tough down south but sweet Jesus.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_kennett/status/1428663173716987909

ScepticalOptomist

20th Aug 2021, 12:01

MickG0105

20th Aug 2021, 12:17

I’m still curious as to one thing - if ‘technically’ they don’t know/can’t prove how or what caused the virus, or what causes it to mutate ...
The mechanism by which coronaviruses replicate and mutate is very well understood - the RNA replication process that occurs after a coronavirus infects a cell is markedly less accurate than DNA replication. Each time a replication occurs the RNA creates a protein sequence and that protein sequence is then used to create a new strand of RNA - the protein sequence is a bit like a negative in photography or a mould in casting. Because of the inherent weakness in RNA replication there is a very small chance that the protein sequence could change slightly so you end up with a very, very slightly flawed negative or mould. Those changes result in the next generation of RNA that is printed/cast being changed every so slightly. When you have many, many replications occurring many, many times as you would get in a large infected population, basic probability favors that the virus will adjust. It is straightforward evolution but on a very, very condensed timeline because of a) the relatively very short inter-generarional cycle time and b) the relatively poor accuracy of the replication process. Most of the time the small 'misprints' or 'miscasts' (mutations) that arise have no effect whatsoever on how the coronavirus interacts with its target hosts but every once in a while they do.

And you don't need to know how or what "caused" the original coronavirus to emerge, once you have mapped it genetically then you're on your way to dealing with it.

Chronic Snoozer

20th Aug 2021, 12:18

I know the rest of the year is going to be tough down south but sweet Jesus.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_kennett/status/1428663173716987909

How responsible, from a former politician. How many likes is he after?

Chronic Snoozer

20th Aug 2021, 12:21

The mechanism by which coronaviruses replicate and mutate is very well understood - the RNA replication process that occurs after a coronavirus infects a cell is markedly less accurate than DNA replication. Each time a replication occurs the RNA creates a protein sequence and that protein sequence is then used to create a new strand of RNA - the protein sequence is a bit like a negative in photography or a mould in casting. Because of the inherent weakness in RNA replication there is a very small chance that the protein sequence could change slightly so you end up with a very, very slightly flawed negative or mould. Those changes result in the resulting next generation of RNA changing every so slightly. When you have many, many replications occurring many, many times as you would get in a large infected population, basic probability favors that the virus will adjust. It is straightforward evolution but on a very, very condensed timeline because of a) the relatively very short inter-generarional cycle time and b) the relatively poor accuracy of the replication process. Most of the time the small 'misprints' or 'miscasts' (mutations) that arise have no effect whatsoever on how the coronavirus interacts with its target hosts but every once in a while they do.

And you don't need to know how or what "caused" the original coronavirus to emerge, once you have mapped it genetically then you're on your way to dealing with it.

So stopping the spread is also the key to stopping mutations which spread faster, so stopping the spread is also key to stopping mutations which spread faster, so..................?

dr dre

20th Aug 2021, 12:27

I know the rest of the year is going to be tough down south but sweet Jesus.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_kennett/status/1428663173716987909

Government members denying this tonight. It doesn’t seem logical considering cases this time last year were in the hundreds and the lockdown ended in October, and no one has ever extended a lockdown by 4 months.

I think it’s just Kennett suffering relevancy deprivation syndrome, trying to attract clicks for his “Dictator Dan must go!” column in the Herald Sun today, or a distraction from his stuff ups at the Hawks.

MickG0105

20th Aug 2021, 12:29

So stopping the spread is also the key to stopping mutations which spread faster, so stopping the spread is also key to stopping mutations which spread faster, so..................?
Yes, yes and, in anticipation, yes. It's worth noting that after 18 months and some what? 200 million cases globally (likely many more than that) there have thus far really only been three or four variants of significant concern. That said, best not to tempt fate if you can avoid it.

601

20th Aug 2021, 12:34

For Melbourne to go into lockdown 6 times it shows that the current measures are not effective because the virus does keep coming back and spreading.

We did it last year, but we were dealing with a less infectious variant. .
The measures most likely would be effective against this latest variant if EVERYONE took personal responsibility to stop the spread.

Turnleft080

20th Aug 2021, 13:26

We did it last year, but we were dealing with a less infectious variant. .
The measures most likely would be effective against this latest variant if EVERYONE took personal responsibility to stop the spread.
Lockdowns are like Chemo. Yes, you may kill the virus and you kill everything else with it. The longer the lockdown the longer it suppress your brain never mined the virus. Now calling it covid fatigue. Net result, all this crap lowers your immune system emotionally mentally and physically. Great, just what you want in a pandemic.

Chronic Snoozer

20th Aug 2021, 13:33

Yes, yes and, in anticipation, yes. It's worth noting that after 18 months and some what? 200 million cases globally (likely many more than that) there have thus far really only been three or four variants of significant concern. That said, best not to tempt fate if you can avoid it.

These numbers are staggering. 4.88 billion doses administered. 35 million doses a day worldwide. Should have those trial results shortly.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=OWID_WRL

Foxxster

20th Aug 2021, 22:29

A quite effective treatment. Just approved in the uk. I wonder how long it will take us to approve it. Don’t worry, there’s no hurry or anything. Take your time. Only been used in the US for the last nine months. Might be handy to have now in the middle of the Indian variant with cases and hospitalisations spiralling .

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9911205/UK-approves-Covid-antibody-drug-medical-watchdog-finds-PREVENT-infection.html#comments

Green.Dot

20th Aug 2021, 22:33

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-21/israel-shows-what-life-looks-like-at-80-per-cent-vaccinated/100394760

WTF is wrong with our media? This should be a positive story. Yes, case numbers in Israel have spiked significantly but guess what? Deaths are right down compared to “a non-vaccinated Israeli population” It’s buried deep within the story.

Australia has fck all hope with ABC spreading fear and continuing to focus on case numbers. I too wish we could eliminate COVID, we thought we could, I’m glad we gave it a go, but it’s not going to happen. Accept it Australia.

ruprecht

20th Aug 2021, 22:42

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-21/israel-shows-what-life-looks-like-at-80-per-cent-vaccinated/100394760

WTF is wrong with our media? This should be a positive story. Yes, case numbers in Israel have spiked significantly but guess what? Deaths are right down. It’s buried deep within the story.

Australia has fck all hope with ABC spreading fear and continuing to focus on case numbers. I too wish we could eliminate COVID, we thought we could, I’m glad we gave it a go, but it’s not going to happen. Accept it Australia.
From the article:
The death rate is also much lower, despite the surging cases.

Thats all you need to know.

I listen to ABC radio, and I’m growing tired of presenters who are paid by the government telling me how “we’re all in this together”. :hmm:

Foxxster

20th Aug 2021, 22:50

61 cases in Victoria today up from 55 yesterday.

Turnleft080

21st Aug 2021, 01:03

61 cases in Victoria today up from 55 yesterday.
Press conference just delivered. Wasn't to bad, I thought he was going to chain us to the furniture.

Foxxster

21st Aug 2021, 01:11

Press conference just delivered. Wasn't to bad, I thought he was going to chain us to the furniture.

another 16 cases overnight so add those to the total they announced this morning.

Chris2303

21st Aug 2021, 01:15

21 new cases in AKL - total now 51 including 6 in WLG

Foxxster

21st Aug 2021, 01:17

832 for NSW today. 825 local plus 7 from overseas. Good effort Gladys. Now is the time to bunker down you said yesterday. At the start of week 9. Is that what the health advice said. Not at the start of week 1 or the start of week 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or the start of week 8. No it said wait until the state liberals start making plans to replace you and make it known they are doing so. So week 9 it is. But she is acting only on the health advice. Strange how the chief health officer didn’t give a straight answer when asked if she had given the premier advice to go harder earlier. Strange how the health minister said the health advice is not going to be released when the question was asked at one of the press conferences. It was asked after the chief health officer was asked her question to which she gave a politicians non answer.

but they are acting only on the health advice and don’t you forget it.

SOPS

21st Aug 2021, 01:19

832 for NSW today. Good effort Gladys. Now is the time to bunker down you said yesterday. At the start of week 9. Is that what the health advice said. Not at the start of week 1 or the start of week 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or the start of week 8. No it said wait until the state liberals start making plans to replace you and make it known they are doing so. So week 9 it is. But she is acting only on the health advice. Strange how the chief health officer didn’t give a straight answer when asked if she had given the premier advice to go harder earlier. Strange how the health advice is not going to be released when the question was asked.

but they are acting only on the health advice and don’t you forget it.

Gladys…. Gold Standard. And I’m pi$$ed off at ScoMo ( and I vote for him), he encouraged her.

rattman

21st Aug 2021, 01:20

Good effort Gladys.

Truly gone for gold, vic relegated to silver

Chronic Snoozer

21st Aug 2021, 01:23

832 for NSW today. Good effort Gladys. Now is the time to bunker down you said yesterday. At the start of week 9. Is that what the health advice said. Not at the start of week 1 or the start of week 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or the start of week 8. No it said wait until the state liberals start making plans to replace you and make it known they are doing so. So week 9 it is. But she is acting only on the health advice. Strange how the chief health officer didn’t give a straight answer when asked if she had given the premier advice to go harder earlier. Strange how the health minister said the health advice is not going to be released when the question was asked at one of the press conferences. It was asked after the chief health officer was asked her question to which she gave a politicians non answer.

but they are acting only on the health advice and don’t you forget it.

Give it a rest would you. They can’t deal with the outbreak by looking in the rear view mirror. If people aren’t compliant, that’s not the government’s fault, is it? This constant sniping and heckling of the government(s) is just wasting bandwidth.

Turnleft080

21st Aug 2021, 01:24

Truly gone for gold, vic relegated to silver
WA came last in the heat and didn't even make the final. NSW and VIC definitely in the best lanes.

Foxxster

21st Aug 2021, 01:28

Give it a rest would you. They can’t deal with the outbreak by looking in the rear view mirror. If people aren’t compliant, that’s not the government’s fault, is it? This constant sniping and heckling of the government(s) is just wasting bandwidth.

maybe you should read what I said more carefully. Then realise what is actually driving their actions. Then realise they need to be held to account.

as for the relaxation of restrictions. Well there are three thresholds. 6,000,000 vaccines, 70% vaccinated, 80% vaccinated. We are currently at about 5.7 million vaccines and will get to 6 million by Monday. Has anyone seen a definitive official list of what will be relaxed. Or for the 70% or 80% marks. Why haven’t they been released, at week 9 of this shambles.

PoppaJo

21st Aug 2021, 01:29

Gladys keeps speaking in riddles it gives me a headache. Switched over to Dan at least it’s bloody clear and straight to the damn point.

Foxxster

21st Aug 2021, 01:30

Gladys keeps speaking in riddles it gives me a headache. Switched over to Dan at least it’s bloody clear and straight to the damn point.

And have you noticed that she has deliberately got others to speak at the press conferences so she has less time to be questioned.

Chronic Snoozer

21st Aug 2021, 01:43

maybe you should read what I said more carefully. Then realise what is actually driving their actions. Then realise they need to be held to account.

I did. Sounds like a whinge. Unless Good effort Gladys was meant to be genuine praise.

Why haven’t they been released, at week 9 of this shambles.

Just list for us your qualifications for dealing with pandemics again?

Look, I’m all for accountability etc but I am neither qualified nor in a position to make that assessment. I doubt you are. Is Sweden’s the right approach? Is New Zealand’s? How about we have less of the histrionics, sit on our hands like good pilots, and see how this pans out before calling for heads? There is very little we can do on this bulletin board about it anyway.

rattman

21st Aug 2021, 01:46

And have you noticed that she has deliberately got others to speak at the press conferences so she has less time to be questioned.

And its being held in a smaller room so they fit in less reporters and there for less questions and assuming only the tame ones get invited

Chronic Snoozer

21st Aug 2021, 01:46

Gladys keeps speaking in riddles it gives me a headache. Switched over to Dan at least it’s bloody clear and straight to the damn point.

I gave up listening to the pressers about 1023 iterations ago. There’s only so many ways to say the same thing, and journos seem to be just looking for words to hang the politicians on. It’s very ‘depressing’.

Turnleft080

21st Aug 2021, 01:49

Gladys keeps speaking in riddles it gives me a headache. Switched over to Dan at least it’s bloody clear and straight to the damn point.
"Can I just say, look, can I just say for one more time, that we are following the health advice, please! please! please! stay home, the health advice says this is beatable. Can I just say please! please! please! we are all in this together."

Turnleft080

21st Aug 2021, 01:52

And its being held in a smaller room so they fit in less reporters and there for less questions and assuming only the tame ones get invited
The ABC ones. Always Bloody Correct.

Foxxster

21st Aug 2021, 02:46

Protests in Sydney and a larger one in Melbourne. Wonderful….

volare_737

21st Aug 2021, 02:51

43Inches

21st Aug 2021, 03:05

The media is part of all the fear mongering and unfortunately 95 percent of Australians just follow what comes out of the square tube and refuse to think for themselves !!!

Thankfully that is complete crap and MOST Aussies WILL be vaccinated in the coming months. Add to that MOST Aussies followed the rules and kept the death toll to a minimum while we reached that target. Those that didn't did not change anything, except possibly increase the death toll slightly and lengthen the lockdowns, thanks to those selfish individuals we went from a relatively open vaccination period to martial law. The media is completely to blame for vaccine hesitancy and SloMo for putting all eggs into one vaccine at the start causing a slower rollout. As for anti vaxxers, they are what they are, always there for ANY vaccine and not able to be delt with as they are not rational. Protesters are led mostly by a small group of Anti-vaxxers combined with anarchists playing games with the populace. I mean seriously you get Nazis protesting occasionally, I'm not particularly worried about them coming back to power, so a few hundred even thousands out of 5 million in each state protesting lockdowns ain't really news. Community sentiment is definitely way against them even to the point of thinking they are just mindless idiots. This is not BLM with 10s of thousands protesting that actually makes them look like a reasonable segment of the community.

Transition Layer

21st Aug 2021, 03:07

I gave up listening to the pressers about 1023 iterations ago. There’s only so many ways to say the same thing, and journos seem to be just looking for words to hang the politicians on. It’s very ‘depressing’.
Why do they even need a daily press conference? Just inflating their own self importance, especially people like CHOs who no one even knew existed before this mess.
Simply publish a press release with the numbers, reinforce the current restrictions, and only appear when it’s absolutely necessary. The non-conforming public aren’t listening to the politicians anyway!

Torukmacto

21st Aug 2021, 03:12

Thankfully that is complete crap and MOST Aussies WILL be vaccinated in the coming months. Add to that MOST Aussies followed the rules and kept the death toll to a minimum while we reached that target. Those that didn't did not change anything, except possibly increase the death toll slightly and lengthen the lockdowns, thanks to those selfish individuals we went from a relatively open vaccination period to martial law. The media is completely to blame for vaccine hesitancy and SloMo for putting all eggs into one vaccine at the start causing a slower rollout. As for anti vaxxers, they are what they are, always there for ANY vaccine and not able to be delt with as they are not rational. Protesters are led mostly by a small group of Anti-vaxxers combined with anarchists playing games with the populace. I mean seriously you get Nazis protesting occasionally, I'm not particularly worried about them coming back to power, so a few hundred even thousands out of 5 million in each state protesting lockdowns ain't really news. Community sentiment is definitely way against them even to the point of thinking they are just mindless idiots. This is not BLM with 10s of thousands protesting that actually makes them look like a reasonable segment of the community.

plus 1 ! Well said

43Inches

21st Aug 2021, 03:15

Why do they even need a daily press conference?

I can attest that standing up and facing your people/customers when something goes wrong is far more effective than a press release. They can look you in the eye, and feel more relaxed about what you saying is true, and from your own mouth, whatever. Daily briefings I would say is expected by the older of the community, as a mark of respect that they are paying attention and acknowledging what is going on.

Xeptu

21st Aug 2021, 03:18

Give it a rest would you. They can’t deal with the outbreak by looking in the rear view mirror. If people aren’t compliant, that’s not the government’s fault, is it? This constant sniping and heckling of the government(s) is just wasting bandwidth.

We really don't mind, really it gives extra thrust to our "we told you so" statement.
17% of the population don't give a ****, they are in every state, NSW and VIC have the biggest population so therefore have the most of them. Reining them in now because you didn't apply your lockdowns to everyone will be almost impossible.
Set them all free, take the fuel away permit vehicles only, enforce the borders, that's all you can do now.

Green.Dot

21st Aug 2021, 03:35

Expect more of this to come…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-21/anti-covid-lockdown-protesters-clash-with-police-in-melbourne/100396458

People really starting to lose the plot

SOPS

21st Aug 2021, 03:58

Expect more of this to come…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-21/anti-covid-lockdown-protesters-clash-with-police-in-melbourne/100396458

People really starting to lose the plot

Carrying signs saying ‘ vaccine kills’ and calling people waiting for a Covid test .. sheep.

Lockdown is not causing them to lose the plot.. they have not been right in the head for a long time.. probably since their mother dropped them at birth.

Green.Dot

21st Aug 2021, 04:08

How many days you been in lockdown since this all began SOPS?

I don’t support their behaviour but I don’t think you are one to judge if they are/are not losing the plot.

43Inches

21st Aug 2021, 05:17

I don’t support their behaviour but I don’t think you are one to judge if they are/are not losing the plot.

I've come across a few of the organisers of this stuff by association with friends. The leadership group spread completely fabricated material about the government wanting to murder its population and using vaccines to control us, etc etc wild conspiracy stuff. Lots of anecdotal evidence of "I knew xx who died of xx and they had xx vaccine". Then the old mental health thing that the government is not telling the truth about suicides and business failures. It's basically cult mentality where they all just listen to one guy overall and spread their message. With of course a few tag-a-longs with their families to fill out numbers. Thing to look out for, if all your information is being fed by one individual or small group leading you all, you might just be in a cult.

There are of course a few lost individuals in the group that feel genuinely about this.

The feel in my community (in Melbourne) is that they would have all these protesters jailed if they could.

I spent a lot of time undoing the rot with family and friends that have fallen for their stuff, thankfully they are coming round to vaccinate soon.

industry insider

21st Aug 2021, 05:30

Foxxster wrote:

832 for NSW today. 825 local plus 7 from overseas. But with the incubation period, these are figures from 7-10 days ago. Cases seem to double every couple of weeks so unless the circuit breakers work, which they show little sign of doing, reported cases in NSW could be over 1200 per day by the end of the month. Real cases are probably 1200+ now but we just don't know yet.

PoppaJo

21st Aug 2021, 05:46

Foxxster wrote:

But with the incubation period, these are figures from 7-10 days ago. Cases seem to double every couple of weeks so unless the circuit breakers work, which they show little sign of doing, reported cases in NSW could be over 1200 per day by the end of the month. Real cases are probably 1200+ now but we just don't know yet.
Cases have been doubling weekly now not weeks.

In fact cases are now doubling every 6 days. Reducing as each day passes, so we are now in surge mode.

Not sure how she will spin her words as she does when we start cracking the 0000s. You can’t have 2/3000 cases a day and keep spinning the same bull**** as she does for the next 2 months. Those are resignation numbers.

Andrews gave weddings across regional Vic today 120 mins notice to wrap it up. Gladys gave them half a week.

lineupandwait

21st Aug 2021, 05:55

Cases have been doubling weekly now not weeks.

In fact cases are now doubling every 6 days. Reducing as each day passes, so we are now in surge mode.

Not sure how she will spin her words as she does when we start cracking the 0000s. You can’t have 2/3000 cases a day and keep spinning the same bull**** as she does for the next 2 months. Those are resignation numbers.

Andrews had Weddings today 120 mins to wrap it up. Gladys have them half a week.

1000's a day is called living with it. If you're uncomfortable with it and not vaccinated go get AZ.

Time to move on and stop reporting case numbers.

PoppaJo

21st Aug 2021, 06:03

1000's a day is called living with it. If you're uncomfortable with it and not vaccinated go get AZ.

Time to move on and stop reporting case numbers.
Why are people uncomfortable with it? The ****show of many departments that reside in Canberra is purely to blame.

I get the point. The day will soon arrive. We need to know about case numbers in the short term, as we are largely still unvaccinated, and so Sydney can start planning how overrun the health department is about to be in the next 3 months.

People don’t want AZ and there is nothing we can do about that’s, just accept it, and now we start to deal with the fallout from waiting for PZ. I’ve had AZ and so has all my kids who are under 40.

KRviator

21st Aug 2021, 06:11

Not sure how she will spin her words as she does when we start cracking the 0000s. You can’t have 2/3000 cases a day and keep spinning the same bull**** as she does for the next 2 months. Those are resignation numbers.I sound like a Gladys apologist, but what will her pulling the pin achieve? Yes she should have locked Sydney down sooner - no argument there, but they had no reason to believe their previous successes with the Alpha variant wouldn't be replicated against Delta. We now know that to be false, but you live and learn....

The UK daily figures (with 87.4 / 76.0% vaccinated) are for 37,314 cases & 114 deaths today (Source (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/)). The UK population is 68.2M. Australia's population is 25.8M (37.8%) & NSW's is 8.2 (12%). Apply those percentages to the UK numbers, and you'll be in for a surprise - 14,000 daily cases Australia-wide, and 4,400 in NSW alone! And remember - those numbers are in a population that is within 4% of our ultimate vaccination target.

Iceland a country of just 368,000 people, has achieved 71% of the total population fully vaccinated, and 84% of those 12+ are fully vaccinated (Source) (https://www.covid.is/statistical-information-on-vaccination). And their current caseload? 61 new cases today, against a 14-day average 369/100K (Source) (https://www.covid.is/data). Extrapolate those numbers to our population and you get 4,200 new cases today - and a 14-day average of 95,000 cases (or 6,800 a day). And they're at 84% fully vaccinated for everyone over 12!

But don't worry if you live in Western Australia - Mark McGowan can stop it! He's said so!

sumtingwong

21st Aug 2021, 06:24

It's basically cult mentality where they all just listen to one guy overall and spread their message. With of course a few tag-a-longs with their families to fill out numbers. Thing to look out for, if all your information is being fed by one individual or small group leading you all, you might just be in a cult.

You mean such as Dan disciples, McClown cart followers, unelected ‘experts’, bureaucrats and large sections of the media?

Xeptu

21st Aug 2021, 06:32

People don’t want AZ and there is nothing we can do about that’s, just accept it, and now we start to deal with the fallout from waiting for PZ. I’ve had AZ and so has all my kids who are under 40.

I've done both shots of AZ, I would have chosen AZ anyway, all our health professionals recommend AZ purely because the method for producing it has been around for decades, yes there are risks there always has been with every vaccine. PZ has risks too, this swelling issue around the heart muscle can't be good. It hasn't gone unnoticed that has been played down to the point we don't even hear about it anymore, probably because of the fear it will go the same way as AZ with respect to hesitancy.

43Inches

21st Aug 2021, 07:19

You mean such as Dan disciples, McClown cart followers, unelected ‘experts’, bureaucrats and large sections of the media?

Again if you get all your information from one source you are now at the mercy of their bias and direction.

One tool you are given to deal with mental health issues is to be rational about information, make sure it agrees and is consistent with reality. If your information is at odds with what is actually happening then you are suffering an episode, being fooled. Now that can be easy to deduce through grounding or might be hard depending if you are surrounded by influences feeding the delusion. Basically check information provided to you, refer to different sources and see if it makes sense relative to what is actually happening and ask for trusted opinions from people relevant to the situation. If it's just isolated information highlighting some conspiracy then it's most likely bogus/fake, especially if fed through anonymous sources. Also look for highly edited or out of context interviews or snippets of data, without seeing the actual study it refers to, half truths are the easiest to make convincing.

Turnleft080

21st Aug 2021, 07:39

The reason people are angry or infuriated is the method. It's Dan's way or the highway. No one else has a say. Their is no middle ground. Every decision is done behind closed doors. I bet their are hundreds of GPs and Profs out their also wanting know the public health advice. Sutton and Chant are just broadcasters reading a script. Good work if you can get it at $12,000 a week.

machtuk

21st Aug 2021, 09:46

I wonder how all the Dan lovers/followers are feeling these days? Still feeling the love are we?
The grubby lunatic is out of control yet they still believe the daily BS & would follow the grub right off a cliff!
the lunatic wants many days in a row of zero cases before he opens the cell doors, good luck with that its gunna be a lonely Xmas for many!

43Inches

21st Aug 2021, 10:05

They've lost it now, too much non compliance in Sydney and Melbourne for lockdown to work. It's heading towards the great "let it rip" regardless of what the public/pollies want.

Xeptu

21st Aug 2021, 10:41

They've lost it now, too much non compliance in Sydney and Melbourne for lockdown to work. It's heading towards the great "let it rip" regardless of what the public/pollies want.

Indeed it is, sad they didn't get enough vaccinated. now the remaining states have to get more draconian with our borders.

DirectAnywhere

21st Aug 2021, 10:42

People are tired and fatigued of COVID compliance. The NSW lockdown is having a real impact, with an Reff of 1.2-1.3, down from R0 of >5. It's going to be harder to convince people of that as case numbers climb.

Non-compliance will become wider spread. Just got to hope the vaccinations start to have a real impact on hospitalisations and deaths, as much of the populace is about at the end of its tether when it comes to doing what they're told. It's going to be hard to find that point of inflection where you can push lockdowns as far as possible without losing all trust and faith with the public. It's a dangerous time.

hamfists

21st Aug 2021, 11:05

We all get our information from somewhere..we all have to take what we’re given in faith since the information comes faster and in volumes that don’t allow us to analyse. As anyone that like me, is a lifelong sceptic, questions everything ..by the time the onion is peeled and half the information that is sold as fact becomes discredited, it’s last weeks fish n chip paper. The public has moved on and most believe opinion is fact.

when was the last time anyone issued a public retraction?

Turnleft080

21st Aug 2021, 13:03

Indeed it is, sad they didn't get enough vaccinated. now the remaining states have to get more draconian with our borders.
Actually the NSW/VIC border should be lifted. What difference does it make. Both states have now cross pollinated. Why not form their own covid bubble. Other states nick off. Your 3 months behind us and way too clean.

Xeptu

21st Aug 2021, 14:40

Actually the NSW/VIC border should be lifted. What difference does it make. Both states have now cross pollinated. Why not form their own covid bubble. Other states nick off. Your 3 months behind us and way too clean.

A fair call too and one those two states may consider if VIC loses control as well. Just don't think you'll be allowed to travel into any other state because you won't. SA is already looking at a transport hub near the border to turn the prime movers around (swap trailers)

hamfists

21st Aug 2021, 20:53

True..after all Dan has proven before that he can take a small localised outbreak in a community and turn it into a citywide death plague by following world best practice (but long disabused by the WHO and the United Nations) extreme lockdowns

Gnadenburg

21st Aug 2021, 21:47

A fair call too and one those two states may consider if VIC loses control as well. Just don't think you'll be allowed to travel into any other state because you won't. SA is already looking at a transport hub near the border to turn the prime movers around (swap trailers)

Vaccines should be diverted to VIC & NSW for the time being outside of any program for the vulnerable or frontline staff in WA. That's if we are all in this together?

However, Australian state borders are porous. They are being breached daily. Comically so from what I've seen. The chance of wider outbreaks in the other States still likely. I just hope the morons in charge accept this and don't keep adding to the COVID bill.

Ladloy

21st Aug 2021, 22:17

Jesus the skynews brigade comes out on a Sunday morning.

Gnadenburg

21st Aug 2021, 23:07

Not sure what your point is?

I don't want to be a Cassandra. However, for a look beyond Christmas, perhaps the whole of the financial year, it may be reasonable to take a look at Israel today. Now combine that snapshot with the individual policies of the Australian Premiers. It's a basket case scenario for aviation and the wider economy.

SHVC

22nd Aug 2021, 00:21

No matter how you look at it, the whole country is fked! Vic going into a complete lockdown along with NSW has assured Australia falls rapidly and deep in to recession until next yr. this is much worse than this time last yr, although we have the vaccine which means nothing to the premiers covid zero is still sought after other than NSW.

Thursday will be an interesting day for a lot of us, see what the forecast is and if there will be further VR or even CR with in the group. I did read from an uncredited source, I didn’t look into it as I didn’t care really but BA have scheduled flights from March 2022, they’re optimistic with that.

VH-ABC

22nd Aug 2021, 00:39

The QANTAS group SHVC?

DirectAnywhere

22nd Aug 2021, 00:59

Torukmacto

22nd Aug 2021, 01:13

Not being from NSW I’m only seeing Gladys’s recent work and I think she is leading the country the right way . Mistakes have been made but so has every other politician on the planet . She said we have to come to terms with it as it’s here to stay , she tried to keep economic loss to a minimum before this outbreak forced her hand . Outbreaks in western suburbs , aboriginal communities and aged care facilities staffed by anti-vaxers are weak points that she has tried to respond to quickly . She is getting more vaccines in for the vulnerable and on the front foot with vaccinating young people , that’s been happening overseas for months . She was first to nominate a % that would allow her to open things up . It’s reported the nsw power brokers have numbers to topple her and she would lose an election ,yet she is staying the course that seems to my uneducated brain a way through this **** storm while all the other premiers look to winning next election in a landslide by pandering to people’s fears by locking everyone up so they feel safe in their beds at night . The pendulum will swing and the money men in Canberra will gain the upper hand once vaccinations reach %70 and support to the states gets reduced .

Chris2303

22nd Aug 2021, 01:13

71 total in NZ with 6 in WLG.

All linked to that woman who travelled from SYD.

If she'd kept the border closed................

compressor stall

22nd Aug 2021, 01:16

I'm going to put 10 bucks on NSW residents being able to travel overseas (excluding NZ) before they're allowed to travel to WA. Anyone want to take it?
.
Agree except I’ll wager more on it!
Actually opening international borders would be a pretty strong tool in the Fed’s playbook to get recalcitrant states in line.
Vic is now out of control and won’t be eliminated by lockdown. Not sure if it’s in the news yet but sources tell me it has spread regionally beyond Shepparton.
By November VIC and NSW open for business and the rest of the country isolate….

SHVC

22nd Aug 2021, 01:25

I will bet $100 on it, the unrest will run riot in QLD when they see NSW and Victorians booking a flight to Europe next yr.

Xeptu

22nd Aug 2021, 01:28

I'm going to put 10 bucks on NSW residents being able to travel overseas (excluding NZ) before they're allowed to travel to WA. Anyone want to take it?

We are in the nightmare scenario for domestic aviation. I'm struggling to see a way out of it. The only leverage Morrison has left is to cut support payments once we hit 80% national vax rates and hope the outcry and misery unleashed is sufficient to bend the will of the premiers. The man is a eunuch right now, confined to giving people money while the premiers make all the decisions.

I'm struggling to understand your logic. What makes you think we in the largely unaffected states and that's all of us outside of NSW and VIC would want to even risk damage to our business and economy by opening our borders before we are confident we can.

PoppaJo

22nd Aug 2021, 01:33

I live in regional outback QLD and you are correct, the community here will need to be dragged kicking and screaming to get it. They all were horrified that I had the AZ and my kids also. I also remind them that Dr Young is a delusional old witch with that needs to resign. I was nearly arrested.

I reminded them of the consequences when we stop reporting cases numbers and it rips though these outback areas in future years, they didn’t have a care in the world. They will in the future however.

Xeptu

22nd Aug 2021, 01:33

I will bet $100 on it, the unrest will run riot in QLD when they see NSW and Victorians booking a flight to Europe next yr.

Except that they will all be broke by then, so I doubt anyone from NSW and VIC will be going anywhere for a while yet. Probably the very last to travel.

Green.Dot

22nd Aug 2021, 01:37

There is hope ahead with potential acceptance amongst state leaders, but I still can’t see WA coming to the party anytime soon…

https://apple.news/AYaDjpjC3TbCYqiwJJoskng

SHVC

22nd Aug 2021, 01:38

The logic is NSW and Vic will have different travel freedoms, not able to fly domestically but internationally. I cant wait for the Emperor and Queen P to keep the ppl convinced covid zero is the only way of living.

KRviator

22nd Aug 2021, 01:49

I'm struggling to understand your logic. What makes you think we in the largely unaffected states and that's all of us outside of NSW and VIC would want to even risk damage to our business and economy by opening our borders before we are confident we can.So the question to you, Xeptu is when would you, personally, be comfortable opening the WA border to NSW/Vic? Because, from where I sit in NSW, I'll have the opportunity to fly to Bali before I can get to Bunbury...And if McGowan won't reopen the border to NSW because of the risk, I dare say there's not a snowballs chance he'll reopen it internationally!

murder most fowl

22nd Aug 2021, 01:51

SHVC

22nd Aug 2021, 01:53

I have read so thing a while back Dubai want the open off Australia, that could very well happen now. I can’t imagine the tennis players isolating like they did this yr at the 2022 open when the can easily go to another country freely. F1 that could very well go also.

Xeptu

22nd Aug 2021, 02:19

So the question to you, Xeptu is when would you, personally, be comfortable opening the WA border to NSW/Vic? Because, from where I sit in NSW, I'll have the opportunity to fly to Bali before I can get to Bunbury...And if McGowan won't reopen the border to NSW because of the risk, I dare say there's not a snowballs chance he'll reopen it internationally!

So the question is to me personally ok and so my answer is my personal opinion at this time. Firstly Bali no longer exists, there would be no point going there even if you wanted to, probably for at least the next couple of years. WA opens and closes its borders to those states and territories dependant on both risk assessment and management. The border hasn't remained permanently shut.

Before WA opens it's border to NSW or VIC, firstly I would expect most if not all west australians to have been vaccinated as would be those intending to enter the state. There will still be requirements such as mask wearing in public places where people in any numbers would be. Random testing can be expected in the larger work places. I would expect a close monitoring of Europe and Israel to see what their longer term experience is.

I wouldn't expect to see these thresholds achieved and therefore border restrictions or closure much before mid 2022

I would expect west australians along with all the other largely unaffected states and territories to be comfortable with that expectation for at least another 12 months yet.

SHVC

22nd Aug 2021, 02:35

I don’t think our economy and way of life fit in with your expectations.

Xeptu

22nd Aug 2021, 02:37

I don’t think our economy and way of life fit in with your expectations.

Our economy is doing just fine thanks and you are entitled to your opinion just the same

Bad Adventures

22nd Aug 2021, 02:53

It’s pretty simple really. Include children aged 12 to 15 in the 80% then let it rip. Frydenburg has said he’ll turn off the taps if the States don’t fall into line. Voters will soon turn on Kim Jong Mclown and Queen P when the rest of us are enjoying our summer vacation in Europe.

SHVC

22nd Aug 2021, 02:58

You must of had a few bad hands dealt in life Xeptu! You seem to be taking great joy at others misery and pain.

Dannyboy39

22nd Aug 2021, 03:09

For me the difficulty comes in the transition from 'double dougnut' press conferences to '200 positive, 4 deaths, all good'. The politicians have taken the short term gain and immense popularity of zero covid and now they are stuck.

We are in danger of becoming a hermit nation in the meantime. The French sent a second string rugby team as the others didn't want to quarantine. Same will happen with the Ashes, IF it still goes ahead. No barmy army tourists spending money. Will Australia lose the F1? How about Australian Open tennis? Will the government give them all special exemptions? That will do down a treat with voters who want the same treatment for Australians.
Clearly a huge policy shift, but Australia needs to come into line with the majority of the rest of the world which is gradually opening up to the vaccinated. Whilst these policies stay in place, I cannot see the Ashes or Australian Open or the next F1 race happening this coming summer.

Governments are also failing to understand how the vaccine actually works - yes, the vaccine reduces your chances of getting it by around 75% but there is infection because the vaccine works in the lungs and not in the upper respiratory tract. So you’re going to get positives but that is a sign the vaccines are working as intended!

Also - models which governments love to cite. The U.K. has proven that these are constantly overplaying impacts of the virus. Whilst our case numbers are still stubbornly high, the numbers of people hospitalised are still below the best case predictions by about 20%.

Xeptu

22nd Aug 2021, 03:13

You must of had a few bad hands dealt in life Xeptu! You seem to be taking great joy at others misery and pain.

You must be kidding me, how the f$#k do you conclude that. I understand your position I have been there myself more than a couple of times in my aviation career.

Prior to the year 2000, it was 5 years in the right hand seat of a turboprop to a command or picked up by the majors, grounded, merged, redundant about every 10 years and start agen, Then China happened, opened it's doors to the biggest population in the world to the tourism industry. Never before happened and 20 years of wow!! how is this even possible who would have thought. But end it would and I did tell the newbies it's not normally like this, it's unprecedented, this bubble will burst. So here we are, you guys don't know anything else, how it was precovid was the norm for you. So believe me I know what you are feeling when the music stops.

rez125

22nd Aug 2021, 05:17

Except that they will all be broke by then, so I doubt anyone from NSW and VIC will be going anywhere for a while yet. Probably the very last to travel.

Broke? Haven't been so busy in my profession ever.

There are plenty of people in Vic making good money and we cannot wait to spend it!

Xeptu

22nd Aug 2021, 05:27

Broke? Haven't been so busy in my profession ever.

There are plenty of people in Vic making good money and we cannot wait to spend it!

Glad to hear it mate, at least there's some good news out of VIC

DirectAnywhere

22nd Aug 2021, 07:36

I'm struggling to understand your logic. What makes you think we in the largely unaffected states and that's all of us outside of NSW and VIC would want to even risk damage to our business and economy by opening our borders before we are confident we can.
Hi Xeptu, the logic is simply that Covid zero is dead in NSW. Like it or not, COVID is on its way to becoming endemic in NSW, possibly Vic too unless they can get on top of things. It's feasible to see a scenario in four months where NSW residents will be able to book their summer school holiday trip to Aspen or Fiji but won't be able to drive to Queensland or fly to WA to see nanna for Christmas.

We're in this situation because of a f&&k up in NSW, no doubt, but we are where we are. There will be a price to be paid in NSW in terms of lives, again no doubt. We will probably be seeing thousands of cases a day in NSW and tens of deaths a day by December, but that situation is inevitably coming now, like it or not. Vaccines will blunt the impact but COVID is here to stay. Other states are paying a price in different ways, but have the luxury still of making decisions about when they open up and to whom of they want to retain their COVID-zero status. So be it. As a domestic pilot, none of this is good news to me but I'm just giving my opinion as to the way things might play out. It's up to the state and territory governments if and when they open up. I'd rather see things open up as soon as we hit 80%, but that's self interest talking and seems unlikely given commentary from various premiers and chief ministers, in spite of what the PM wants.

Short story, I'm not sure if it's legal to open international borders in one state only but, if it is, I think it's likely that NSW residents will be travelling overseas before they will travel to WA unless things change somehow. Educated guess, but it's feeling that way to me.

Xeptu

22nd Aug 2021, 08:36

DirectAnywhere

First let me say I feel your pain and extend that to all those vast majority in both NSW and VIC doing all the right things.
I agree with all that you are saying except any possibility of any of the borders opening this year.

I don't think NSW Health has their head around what is coming in the next week or so. You'll know they are in trouble when they call for help and it won't be there like it was for VIC, our staff don't want to do it again, our states know that and are doing everything they can to assure that doesn't happen. We don't have an endless supply of ICU staff. NSW knew that too and it didn't seem to matter to them.

layman

22nd Aug 2021, 12:47

Not the first time this site has been cited. The "Our World in Data" web site has a variety of graphs showing death rates from 2015 to the present.

The "Excess Mortality" graph (default country is the US) shows substantially higher death rates in 2020. Data is a little behind for 2021 e.g. United Kingdom is 'only' up to July 26, 2021.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-raw-death-count

Change country to Australia and you'll see our figures are not that much different from our average since 2015.

But if you care to look at a few others such as, Belgium, Italy, Sweden, United Kingdom, and they all show significant 'excess deaths' during 2021. Russia is also showing another substantial rise in 2021. United Kingdom figures to 26 July seem to be starting an upward trend just one week after their reducing restrictions.

Our advantages as an island have helped but I guess, despite their many fumbles, it would appear that Australian governments (and the vast majority of the population) have managed Covid fairly well ... at least in keeping the death toll down.

aviation_enthus

22nd Aug 2021, 16:39

I'm struggling to understand your logic. What makes you think we in the largely unaffected states and that's all of us outside of NSW and VIC would want to even risk damage to our business and economy by opening our borders before we are confident we can.

What damage??

The only “damage” that will be inflicted by opening up AFTER +80% of people have been vaccinated, will come from Premiers like McGowan forcing lockdowns for no reason.

People WANT to travel. People WANT to go and an spend money on dinner/movies/AFL/etc. People WANT to live their lives, you only have to look to Europe and the USA to see the massive rebound in demand when vaccinations are at a high level and restrictions are removed.

If the vaccines work as the evidence suggests (high 90% reduction in hospitalisations), the health system will be able to cope with the expected cases in ICU.

There is NO excuse for a lockdown or border restrictions if the WA/QLD health system is able to cope with the expected number of hospitalisations. NONE.

”oh but what about Echo/Foxtrot/Gulf variant?!”

NOPE!

We have a vaccine that can be modified, we have a testing regime to identify cases and new variants, we have had 18 months to prepare medical facilities to deal with this, when we get to 80% vaccinated, the government should basically get out of the way and let people get on with their lives.

If Covid is going to be a long term, endemic issue, then the various state health departments will have to adjust their resources to deal with a change in requirements. Same as dealing with any other disease. That may mean more ICU places, or more staff trained to deal with respiratory disease etc.

In NSW the % of patients in ICU with COVID is still well under 10%. Numerous medical professionals have stated they are busier but nowhere near stretched. They could triple the numbers in ICU with Covid and still be ok.

SHVC

22nd Aug 2021, 20:39

McGowen and Palachook are now reneging on their national cabinet agreement (again)

Saying that it was agreed before the NSW outbreak and now needs to be revised. I’m not sure what these two want, are they really that stupid to think you can eradicate covid yeah we had a good run but now it’s over. What do they expect in 5yrs time, expecting UK and US be at zero before allowing those travelers into their state?
Makes no sense their expectations moving forward.

Rabbitwear

22nd Aug 2021, 21:19

Unfortunately all the premiers will come up with an excuse not to open . The vaccine will not change anything . If it does open the majority of people will catch COVID , even the vaccinated will become ill , may lose medical etc , we are heading into very dangerous territory as pilots and it appears there is no solution, only the strong will survive .

Gnadenburg

22nd Aug 2021, 22:19

You'll know they are in trouble when they call for help and it won't be there like it was for VIC, our staff don't want to do it again, our states know that and are doing everything they can to assure that doesn't happen. We don't have an endless supply of ICU staff. NSW knew that too and it didn't seem to matter to them.

Who are you? "Our staff" or in other threads "My girls" in relation to West Australian nurses? Are you a spokesperson for West Australian medical staff?

You promote fear and insularism; with more than a little parochial smugness. What an ordinary Australian attitude.

McGowen and Palachook are now reneging on their national cabinet agreement (again)

Saying that it was agreed before the NSW outbreak and now needs to be revised. I’m not sure what these two want, are they really that stupid to think you can eradicate covid yeah we had a good run but now it’s over. What do they expect in 5yrs time, expecting UK and US be at zero before allowing those travelers into their state?
Makes no sense their expectations moving forward.

Delta will hit these places because an Underground Railway of sorts will form easily with porous borders. Civil disobedience will spill out with no hope in sight. There are desperate people irrationally locked out, away from their livelihoods and loved ones. Everyday the hardship and hard luck stories are on the increase. A destructive political and social showdown is looming. How terribly sad.

Xeptu

22nd Aug 2021, 22:32

What damage??

The only “damage” that will be inflicted by opening up AFTER +80% of people have been vaccinated, will come from Premiers like McGowan forcing lockdowns for no reason.

People WANT to travel. People WANT to go and an spend money on dinner/movies/AFL/etc. People WANT to live their lives, you only have to look to Europe and the USA to see the massive rebound in demand when vaccinations are at a high level and restrictions are removed.

If the vaccines work as the evidence suggests (high 90% reduction in hospitalisations), the health system will be able to cope with the expected cases in ICU.

There is NO excuse for a lockdown or border restrictions if the WA/QLD health system is able to cope with the expected number of hospitalisations. NONE.

”oh but what about Echo/Foxtrot/Gulf variant?!”

NOPE!

We have a vaccine that can be modified, we have a testing regime to identify cases and new variants, we have had 18 months to prepare medical facilities to deal with this, when we get to 80% vaccinated, the government should basically get out of the way and let people get on with their lives.

If Covid is going to be a long term, endemic issue, then the various state health departments will have to adjust their resources to deal with a change in requirements. Same as dealing with any other disease. That may mean more ICU places, or more staff trained to deal with respiratory disease etc.

In NSW the % of patients in ICU with COVID is still well under 10%. Numerous medical professionals have stated they are busier but nowhere near stretched. They could triple the numbers in ICU with Covid and still be ok.

So lets address what you said here, everything you say here has merit "if" your right.
NSW has the largest ICU capability in the nation, double the capacity of any other state. That's important to remember. NSW Health despite what they say that they have planned and ready for, are not. Nothing can prepare them for what's coming and the "few" of their staff that served alongside our staff in VIC know it.
By late September we expect NSW to be calling for help, by mid October the scenes in the media won't be pleasant and that will continue for at least a month well into November.

With that forecast in mind what are the chances of any of the other states following their lead and even think about opening borders.

43Inches

22nd Aug 2021, 22:48

Delta will hit these places because an Underground Railway of sorts will form easily with porous borders.

Not what is showing if borders are closed tight, as opposed to letting workers through, say from Sydney to Melbourne, which sparked Melbourne's latest outbreak. Whether I agree that's a fair and balanced method, not the point.

Civil disobedience will spill out with no hope in sight. There are desperate people irrationally locked out, away from their livelihoods and loved ones. Everyday the hardship and hard luck stories are on the increase. A destructive political and social showdown is looming. How terribly sad.

The main issue with civil disobedience is just those that are not following the rules, which may account for 1-5% of the population, say 50,000-250,000 in Sydney or Melbourne. These are not the protesters or trouble makers, just those going out and spreading the thing within their community, this is the quiet growing number that is killing any chance of lockdowns ending before vaccination targets are reached.

The protesting minority is less than 0.1% of the population, strangely enough you are more likely to die of covid than attend a protest on "freedom". That said these individuals are having no real impact on lockdowns, and are just causing trouble and most likely pushing authorities to further restrictions, hence why most of the public think they are fools. The only effect they may actually have is make restrictions worse, mass protests and rioting just results in martial law.

The protests in Melbourne were an anarchists perfect dream, thugs rushing police, kids involved and getting sprayed, remember those setting these things up revel in that. Not whether you are free.

Xeptu

22nd Aug 2021, 23:04

You promote fear and insularism; with more than a little parochial smugness. What an ordinary Australian attitude.

Ah! of course it's monday the call centre brigade are back.
Spoken like a true chinese national beating to a different drum.

LapSap

22nd Aug 2021, 23:16

galdian

22nd Aug 2021, 23:40

The average australian is increasingly accepting that when we get to a point where all those who can/will are vaccinated then the validity of lockdowns become increasingly questionable.
The average australian is also increasingly accepting that at some stage we have to live with this and accept a level of sickness, hospitalisation, ICU and death; being vaccinated will lessen the effects of Covid, Covid cannot be eliminated.

The timeline is nominally end of this year, the Feds will make it clear - they already are - there will be no hope for financial assistance to lockdown states after this time; there'll probably be assistance/infrastructure grants available for states who won't lockdown.
I would hope and expect there will always be assistance at the ground level for any states that require it.

ScoMo will run a February campaign on the basis of as far as possible everything being open by Easter school holidays.
Labor will have trouble balancing their support for Comrade Dictators Vs the peoples reasonable expectations that "we're vaccinated, lets go": ScoMo will win (whether you think he should or not's irrelevant).

The average australian may wear lockdowns for now, once all are vaccinated they won't because common sense says it's no longer a valid (or as valid) approach.

Paragraph377

22nd Aug 2021, 23:48

Civil disobedience has started. This is just the beginning. It was inevitable. “When people lose everything, and have nothing left to lose, they lose it”. For many of us on here, we have a measure of wealth already. COVID does have an impact, but not to the extent that it will set us back 40 years. For other people, their $200 per week delivering junk mail is all that they have. Take that away and they have nothing. That’s why politicians are idiots. Sitting fat and happy on their own little rich bubbles with no concept of how the other 99% live. It will only get more volatile as the more desperate people become.

43Inches

22nd Aug 2021, 23:58

For other people, their $200 per week delivering junk mail is all that they have. Take that away and they have nothing.

You do realise these people are not locked down, I say hello to my local junk-mailers and paper rounders as I walk around my 5 km limit. BTW I have a mate that was a major store chain manager who did a paper round while earning $300,000 a year, why, cause he liked doing it, he is a bit strange, don't sleep etc, but all the same don't just assume who is delivering your papers. He runs his own business now making a few million.