All borders to reopen.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Not really.

Yes the B117 variant is more highly contagious (https://theconversation.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-covid-19-variants-153366).

So why hasn’t it easily spread in Australia? A couple of reasons. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-06/uk-variant-of-coronavirus-is-more-infectious-what-about-spread/13126870)Workers in high risk jobs were maintaining social distancing aware of their higher risk probably. Good contact tracing and quick testing.

Hotter weather also means less chance of spread. But the answer isn’t to look the other way and let it spread just because it’s warm, as a latent amount of virus in the community could explode by winter, and whilst the vaccine is on the way the program won’t be completed by October.

So you can see the logic in stopping this variant (or any variant really) not being allowed to spread around even at a low level now.

You’re not a Victorian by any chance? :-)

[dr dre]

You’re not a Victorian by any chance? :-)

No, and neither are these professors of infectious diseases and virology from NSW and Queensland who give a science based not politically based answer to the question of why the new strain hasn’t wreaked havoc in Australia yet. (https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coronavirus/2021/02/09/uk-coronavirus-strain-australia/)

[ScepticalOptomist]

No, and neither are these professors of infectious diseases and virology from NSW and Queensland who give a science based not politically based answer to the question of why the new strain hasn’t wreaked havoc in Australia yet. (https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coronavirus/2021/02/09/uk-coronavirus-strain-australia/)

Well then you’re agreeing with my earlier premise that the premiers are sprouting fear and lies, and that we’re a dumb bunch for believing them.

The professors in that article quite clearly state that whilst the new strain is more contagious it really isn’t that great a concern to us as we have effective controls in place.

Dan the man from stalag-Victoria during the “grilling” said that this strain was WAY more dangerous to us and “not like the 2020 virus”.

Which was a load of ****e, and he should’ve been properly grilled - hence my original post.

[jrfsp]

Since when has BJ been interested in health advice....over 100K have died on his watch.

The problem in Australia is that unless Dan got Vic back to 0 cases, then it would be the outlier in the country, and would remain locked out from interstate travel. Rightly or wrongly, Short sharp lockdown has been adopted by AU / NZ (Bar NSW),

[SHVC]

Guessing 3 cases in Victoria today, it is battle stations again Dan is switching to guns. Big JW (who I still don't know what he does) has a big announcement at 10:30 could be another snap lock down on its way!

[Ladloy]

Guessing 3 cases in Victoria today, it is battle stations again Dan is switching to guns. Big JW (who I still don't know what he does) has a big announcement at 10:30 could be another snap lock down on its way!
No new exposure sites and the 3 cases have been connected to other cases home. They also been home since the outbreak.

[SHVC]

I don’t think cost is really an issue considering Victoria quick brain snap lockdown cost 1 billion dollars.

[White Knight]

Since when has BJ been interested in health advice....over 100K have died on his watch.


What a stupid comment. The UK's 65,000,000 population in an area the size of VIC, the UK being geographically a crossroads for world travel unlike the Cul-de-Sac that is Australia and the far older population. Of course there will be a lot of deaths! The fact is the lethality is extremely low for people under 65 years old!

Maybe you should see the latest headlines in the UK about the expected extra 100,000 Cancer deaths in the next year (affecting all ages severely) because the illness has been undiagnosed or untreated due to the Covid flap. And that's just the Big C. Time to look past the BS now...

[havick]

What a stupid comment. The UK's 65,000,000 population in an area the size of VIC, the UK being geographically a crossroads for world travel unlike the Cul-de-Sac that is Australia and the far older population. Of course there will be a lot of deaths! The fact is the lethality is extremely low for people under 65 years old!

Maybe you should see the latest headlines in the UK about the expected extra 100,000 Cancer deaths in the next year (affecting all ages severely) because the illness has been undiagnosed or untreated due to the Covid flap. And that's just the Big C. Time to look past the BS now...

Problem is Australia has gone all in with the govt/media scare tactics, too hard to reverse course now without looking stupid.

[Ladloy]

I can't wait to go back flying with all you tinfoil hat wearers. Should make for a fun ride.

[601]

Problem is Australia has gone all in with the govt/media scare tactics, too hard to reverse course now without looking stupid.
So, as a nation, we are stupid for looking at what was happening overseas and adopting a course of action that has allowed us to have a reasonable existence in our daily lives.

The only industries that are feeling the effects are the industries that rely heavily on tourism, including aviation.
In Oz, try getting a chippie, tiler or plumber or try to book your yacht in to get it bottom cleaned.
Some industries are going gangbusters.

I would rather be in this state of relative normality than looking at another 3 months of being locked up indoors.

[DirectAnywhere]

I said it a few weeks ago and I'll say it again, Australian governments are going to have a really hard time selling the fact that increasing COVID cases and some deaths are an acceptable outcome in a post-vaccination Australia.

Will Mark McGowan, who's sitting on an 80% plus approval rating and looks likely to destroy the WA Liberals in a few weeks, be willing to stay open if there are any COVID cases in the eastern states, and any risk at all that Mr or Mrs Jones in their nursing homes may be one of the few people whom the Pfizer vaccine doesn't protect?

Reducing the number of deaths in the US from 4000 to 400 a day would be seen as a triumph. 4 deaths a day in Australia would be unacceptable. Not sure how Scotty from Marketing is going to sell that one, and his comments yesterday that vaccinations "should" see an end to lockdowns and border closures, frankly, doesn't fill me with confidence.

[McLimit]

Well that's what happens when you create fear, panic and hysteria for your own political means. It's been a real education reading what that sort of rot does to seemingly intelligent people (like Sunfish). You kind of expect it from the uneducated 50% or so.

[WhisprSYD]

So, as a nation, we are stupid for looking at what was happening overseas and adopting a course of action that has allowed us to have a reasonable existence in our daily lives.

The only industries that are feeling the effects are the industries that rely heavily on tourism, including aviation.
In Oz, try getting a chippie, tiler or plumber or try to book your yacht in to get it bottom cleaned.
Some industries are going gangbusters.

I would rather be in this state of relative normality than looking at another 3 months of being locked up indoors.

its all relative though.. if you are happy to live in your own little neighbourhood bubble and work locally then yeah what’s been going on is fine - but the fact that we haven’t had a significant breakout and/or a covid related death in Australian in 4-5 months SHOULD give us the confidence to be able to travel and work freely across our country without fear of being locked up or locked out of your home state!

Because tradies are busy does that mean we shouldn’t give a flying $&@! that there are people who haven’t been able to see their elderly and close to dead relatives in Perth for more than a 2 week window in over 12 months? Or that there have been literally hundreds of thousands who have been stood down and relying on government handouts to feed their families?

we’re lucky, we are isolated, and other than one example in vic last year the combination of quarantine and track/trace/isolate has kept Australia for the most part covid free.. so why the fear?

[Dannyboy39]

In Oz, try getting a chippie, tiler or plumber or try to book your yacht in to get it bottom cleaned.
Some industries are going gangbusters.

I would rather be in this state of relative normality than looking at another 3 months of being locked up indoors.
For what it’s worth. it’s probably just as hard to get one of these in the U.K. at present despite the numbers of cases.

[3Greens]

Approved through the normal process per other vaccines.

Not under emergency use provisions or under a temporary authorisation.

Due in large part to having the luxury of time to do so, due to the low rates of infection.

well, given that all manufacturers of the vaccines are only applying for emergency use as phase 3 trials are still ongoing, then the Australian approval is exactly the same as every other regulatory body. In the case of Pfizer and AZ, the study will not complete until 2023. This is normal procedure for a phase 3 clinical trial. Your assertion that Australia has somehow approved the vaccine in a differant way is incorrect. Granted they’ve had sight of an expanded phase 3 in the real world scenario and at scale, but it’s still an EUA and NOT full approval of a vaccine.

[Transition Layer]

Here is a classic example of why the various Health Officers around the country have been given way too much authority. They simply don’t understand the social and economic consequences of their decisions, and merely see things only from a health perspective. The Premiers need to weigh up the decisions accordingly.

Dr Jeannette Young in QLD, is quoted in today’s SMH:

“I really don’t like having to recommend to the Premier that we close borders,” she said. “It’s not helpful, it’s very unnatural as well. But I think it was important that you minimise the risk of new cases. I never realised how many people travel every single day [between NSW and Queensland].”

[SOPS]

Here is an interesting aside.. as looking at it from a view point as my new job as a train diver.

There is a web site called ..the man in seat 61.. it’s very interesting about rail travel.

It seems many overnight services in Europe, that were stopped a few years ago, are being started again. People are sick of the airport/ low cost /COVID experience.

I’m not suggesting it will happen here .. just throwing it in for a bit of interest.

[dr dre]

well, given that all manufacturers of the vaccines are only applying for emergency use as phase 3 trials are still ongoing, then the Australian approval is exactly the same as every other regulatory body. In the case of Pfizer and AZ, the study will not complete until 2023. This is normal procedure for a phase 3 clinical trial.

Phase 3 trials are more about studying the efficacy of the vaccine rather than safety (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phases_of_clinical_research).

Phase 1 and 2 are more about safety, and if a vaccine is found to be unsafe it generally appears in phase 2.

Any serious side effect like anaphylaxis will show up within the first 15 minutes, that’s why they get you to stay at the injection site for a while after receiving the shot. Still that’s only at a rate of 4.5 per million (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/world/the-vaccines-are-quite-safe-and-side-effects-are-rare-the-cdc-reports.html) for Covid vax.

This article (https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-vaccine-monitoring-idUSKBN2AC2G3) explains why vaccines are safe and have been approved whilst some continuing studies are ongoing.

You can trust the world’s overwhelming body of scientific and medical expertise, and not listen to those brain dead morons who protested around the country yesterday like Pete Evans.

[McLimit]

Still that’s only at a rate of 4.5 per million (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/world/the-vaccines-are-quite-safe-and-side-effects-are-rare-the-cdc-reports.html) for Covid vax.

mmmm, let's all think about that for a moment. The same people that want to lock up a state for one case of covid, that's one in 2.589 million..........

You're expecting them to accept the one in 4.5 million? Not a chance bro, I reckon McClown should reject the vaccine and 'keep western australians safe' with 'an abundance of caution' he is after all 'the most popular premier' ever. And that's what it's all about folks, popularity and numbers.

[neville_nobody]

You're expecting them to accept the one in 4.5 million? Not a chance bro, I reckon McClown should reject the vaccine and 'keep western australians safe' with 'an abundance of caution' he is after all 'the most popular premier' ever. And that's what it's all about folks, popularity and numbers.

I reckon the narrative will change as soon as he is safely settled in his second term. He is going to be destroyed economically if he keeps up the current act. WA is reliant on immigrant labour due to lack of population, and they don't have any right now. Mining, Farming, Hospitality plus major public works. He will see runaway wage inflation, public works blowouts, cancelled projects, businesses shutting down if he keeps going the way it is. There are plenty of news articles now about businesses unable to find labour in WA so he won't want that to keep going. If he does nothing eventually he'll get tapped on the shoulder by the minerals council telling him to open the border or else. It also gives a free hit to the Libs who can run the mantra of Labor can't manage the economy.

[McLimit]

I read your comment with interest and respect it, but his ego, like most politicians will put personal popularity above all else. He will hold out for as long as possible. Australians are piss weak on this front. It will take pushing the economy over there to pert near economic collapse before anything changes. And of course, you have to deal with the 50% of the population you've just pushed close to mental collapse with fear, anxiety and chaos. How do you now go to them and say, yeah, all good now? Just my opinion of course and not worth a pince of ****!

[dr dre]

mmmm, let's all think about that for a moment. The same people that want to lock up a state for one case of covid, that's one in 2.589 million..........

You're expecting them to accept the one in 4.5 million? Not a chance bro, I reckon McClown should reject the vaccine and 'keep western australians safe' with 'an abundance of caution' he is after all 'the most popular premier' ever. And that's what it's all about folks, popularity and numbers.

Seriously, what are you talking about? WA is implementing the vaccine program from next week just like every other state in the nation.

If you’re trying to make a comparison to the use of a lockdown for a small number of cases (which every state has done btw) that argument has been done and dusted and it’s time to move on.

It is the introduction of this vaccine that will change the environment that caused those lockdowns to be implemented.

[McLimit]

Uhhhm, I didn't say they weren't vaccinating, I'm saying that there will still be cases of covid AFTER everyone is vaccinated. What's McClown going to do when there are covid cases in other states (and yours) but everyone is vaccinated? I'm saying, your friend McClown will seal borders regardless of vaccination.

[dr dre]

Uhhhm, I didn't say they weren't vaccinating, I'm saying that there will still be cases of covid AFTER everyone is vaccinated. What's McClown going to do when there are covid cases in other states (and yours) but everyone is vaccinated? I'm saying, your friend McClown will seal borders regardless of vaccination.

Health advice that triggered border closures was based on an unvaccinated population. Reaching various levels of immunisation changes that. It’s not a hard concept to understand.

In response I’ll ask this: If you think the conspiracy is states will just continue to lock borders forever why are they bothering spending money and resources vaccinating people? Why not just keep borders closed forever and use the money elsewhere?

Funny thing is, is that in response to the latest Melbourne outbreak/lockdown WA wasn’t even the strictest other state in response, SA implemented a hard border 48hrs prior to WA. And you’ll find WA has now adopted a more sensible approach to crew isolation as well.

[McLimit]

Health advice that triggered border closures was based on an unvaccinated population. Reaching various levels of immunisation changes that. It’s not a hard concept to understand.

Dude, read the health advice now, look at the damage that has been done in other health areas. Your 'not hard concept' may be understood by intelligent people but it doesn't seem to be understood by an epidemiologist that's looking at one problem in isolation.

conspiracy

Who said ANYTHING about a conspiracy?? Mate, I'm far removed from a Pete Evans. I'm looking at the broader picture. And I'm looking at behaviours.

[Stardoggas]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/715x494/screenshot_20210221_131536_da19b34a7f9f6bda4a9e73c19f8ee1449 bed86f7.jpg

[regitaekilthgiwt]

And you’ll find WA has now adopted a more sensible approach to crew isolation as well.

Hahahahahaha ah no. They are still as stupid as ever. But at least the rest of Australia isn’t as <can’t write the rest here as it’s not socially acceptable>.

[dr dre]

Watched the mens final and after the match the chair of TA in her final speech for the weekend, gave a subtle hint to
the premiers about opening up the borders by the remark,' 2021 is going to be a great year with the introduction of the vaccine'.
Then followed a stack of boos from the crowd. I found that hilarious.

Well most of the crowd were fervently supporting a player who’s made some stupid statements on vaccines recently so not really surprised they had that reaction.

In better news a study out from the UK showing 95% of over 70s have had a vaccine dose (https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-95-per-cent-of-over-70s-in-great-britain-given-vaccine/), the number who have declined one despite being offered? Only 1%.

[fl dutchman]

Well most of the crowd were fervently supporting a player who’s made some stupid statements on vaccines recently so not really surprised they had that reaction.

In better news a study out from the UK showing 95% of over 70s have had a vaccine dose (https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-95-per-cent-of-over-70s-in-great-britain-given-vaccine/), the number who have declined one despite being offered? Only 1%.


Boris in the UK is now saying All over 50s will be offered at least one vaccination by 15 April. Also All adults will be offered one vaccination by July, Meaning all adults will have been offered Two vaccines by Sept/Oct. (About 66 million population)

From what I hear Australia will have vaccinated all adults by Sept/Oct.

So does that mean by say October 21 the Australian borders will then open to international travelers from the UK. Allowing people to see there Sons, Daughters, Grandchildren and Parents again. Or is the current situation going to go on forever.

[1A_Please]

Boris in the UK is now saying All over 50s will be offered at least one vaccination by 15 April. Also All adults will be offered one vaccination by July, Meaning all adults will have been offered Two vaccines by Sept/Oct. (About 66 million population)

From what I hear Australia will have vaccinated all adults by Sept/Oct.

So does that mean by say October 21 the Australian borders will then open to international travelers from the UK. Allowing people to see there Sons, Daughters, Grandchildren and Parents again. Or is the current situation going to go on forever.
It will depend on a few things.
One thing will be green-zone routes. This will be end-to-end flights with no transit passengers joining along the way. For example, SQ will not be able to use its SIN hub to have pax join and leave the flights to and from other destinations. Obviously this would favour someone like QF who can operate LHR-PER non-stop. BA or VS could also do the same. Airlines like EK or SQ that rely on exploiting their well-located hubs to fill their planes will continue to be in a world of pain.
It is also likely that pre-flight testing will also remain so before boarding airlines will require proof of vaccination along with a negative test within the previous 72 hours. Hopefully 14 days quarantine won't be required on arrival or the whole process is doomed.

Realistically, Australia has been very cautious throughout the whole pandemic and I wouldn't be planning on int'l flights before 1 January 2022.

[Dannyboy39]

I really don’t get the need for testing if you’ve had the vaccine. Not saying you’re wrong, but if you’re fully protected, what are you looking for? A new variant?

[morno]

I really don’t get the need for testing if you’ve had the vaccine. Not saying you’re wrong, but if you’re fully protected, what are you looking for? A new variant?

The vaccine won’t entirely stop you getting covid from my understanding, it’ll just reduce the effects of getting it. I guess while it’s still so prevalent worldwide, the chance is still there that you can be carrying it.

Maybe when numbers have come right down worldwide, the risk of an inbound traveller carrying it will be greatly reduced, then the need for pre-flight testing will become unnecessary.

[PoppaJo]

1/3 Cairns is on Jobkeeper. This wonderful place is on the verge of collapse.

Annastacia nowhere to be seen.

https://twitter.com/ABCthedrum/status/1363707049343811584?s=20 ​​​​​​​

[Chris2303]

I really don’t get the need for testing if you’ve had the vaccine. Not saying you’re wrong, but if you’re fully protected, what are you looking for? A new variant?

Because you aren't necessarily fully protected especially, as you say, against mutations

[jrfsp]

1/3 Cairns is on Jobkeeper. This wonderful place is on the verge of collapse.

Annastacia nowhere to be seen.

https://twitter.com/ABCthedrum/status/1363707049343811584?s=20 ​​​​​​​

TBH Cairns has been in decline for years, while its sad, it needs to reinvent itself as a city to live in, not just for holidays. Even with domestic travel, it wont make up for the lack of international tourists. The spending habits are vastly different.

[Dannyboy39]

The vaccine won’t entirely stop you getting covid from my understanding, it’ll just reduce the effects of getting it. I guess while it’s still so prevalent worldwide, the chance is still there that you can be carrying it.

Maybe when numbers have come right down worldwide, the risk of an inbound traveller carrying it will be greatly reduced, then the need for pre-flight testing will become unnecessary.
And here you have ladies and gentlemen the reason why foreign traveller quarantines will continue seemingly indefinitely and exactly what I predicted would happen. The purpose of the vaccine is to protect against severe disease, not necessarily mild infection. If this policy comes in, the world will never reopen. We are only finding the Kent variant for example, because the UK has half of the world's genomic testing. Seemingly a Nigerian variant was found around Christmas, but you never hear about it because no one is looking for it.

Hypothetical situation - I have a booking from LHR-DXB-BNE from 6 Dec 2021 (FWIW I have) - I have had two doses of the vaccine, as have all Australians who want one. I then present with asymptomatic Covid-19 which the vaccine is protecting me from getting mildly ill. I have to shell out £150 for a test too, which I can afford, but clearly don't want to pay out. Who am I endangering?

Viruses mutate - that is what they do. All vaccines, albeit some less so, protect against disease, but all protect against severe disease. I don't mind getting a little bit sick as long as I don't end up in hospital clearly.

[currawong]

Hypothetical situation -

Get yourself a fundamental understanding of how vaccines work.

:ok:

[patty50]

Hypothetically if someone was desperate to come for the Ashes they might try their luck convincing whoever they can that it’s in everyone’s best interest that the rules change to accommodate them.

We don’t let other communicable diseases rip through society just because we have vaccines.

[KRviator]

We don’t let other communicable diseases rip through society just because we have vaccines.Just preventable ones. Smoking and lung cancer for example...

[Dannyboy39]

We don’t let other communicable diseases rip through society just because we have vaccines.
I’ve read this back three times and I haven’t a clue what you’re trying to convince.

[Dannyboy39]

Hypothetical situation -

Get yourself a fundamental understanding of how vaccines work.

:ok:
I have a fair understanding - they intend to prevent severe disease and in this case significantly reduce transmission. Am I wrong?

[BA_Baracas]

Hypothetically if someone was desperate to come for the Ashes they might try their luck convincing whoever they can that it’s in everyone’s best interest that the rules change to accommodate them.

We don’t let other communicable diseases rip through society just because we have vaccines.



So what metric are you waiting for to allow international travel again?
Personally, I have no need or desire to travel to Oz anymore, but I don’t quite get what your strategy is.

Zero COVID cases? If so you’re never gonna see international travel again.
The vaccine will prevent severe disease, but won’t stop transmission.
If full vaccination is not good enough for you then what is?

There will be future mutations, nothing can be done about that and this virus is going nowhere. Either we learn to live with it, or life even close to what we knew, is over.

Personally, I’d like to learn to live with it. Life as it is right now is not for me

[SHVC]

That’s it BA! Each state premier (except Gladys) have installed fear about this virus for their political gain. Now the vaccine is rolling out there must be a common ground for acceptable level of the virus, as there is for others. The problem is the baby boomers and bogans that have all this fear inside them will let those same politicians know. It will be interesting to see what rhetoric McGoose pushes after his March election. Will he stick hard to zero cases then we’ll WA f$&ked royally as they have no work force. I think WA is f$&kef royally anyway as the baby boomers and bogans there will not change their thought process about the virus. Queen P up on the North well her actions are being seen now and her carnage is becoming very apparent everyday, I wonder if she pushed her CMO to make those comments about not realizing that so many ppl travel etc, surely a Dr couldn’t be that stupid!

[Going Nowhere]

Take a trip up to FNQ and have a look at the effects of the lack of tourism.

CNS is deserted. It’s quite sad to see and it’ll take a very long time to restore the confidence of travellers from the Southern states. They’re the ones who spend the big $$$ domestically.

[Global Aviator]

Yep borders need to come down and concentrate on the national approach.

2021 should be a booming year for domestic tourism. VIC/NSW snow fields for winter, NT/QLD for the dry, remote Australia, WA so much to offer, Tassie.

Aus has it all, no not ideal as people like me love overseas travel but for now Aus will do, open the borders, keep them open and promote AUSTRALIAN DOMESTIC TOURISM.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

There's a reason people didn't holiday in Australia pre-COVID, and it hasn't gone away. It's farkin expensive!! Especially so if you have a family and are tied to peak times such as school holidays etc. in an environment where you are a captive market.

[Global Aviator]

There's a reason people didn't holiday in Australia pre-COVID, and it hasn't gone away. It's farkin expensive!! Especially so if you have a family and are tied to peak times such as school holidays etc. in an environment where you are a captive market.

I certainly agree, however this year there ain’t many other options. Stay home or travel domestically (yes even in your own backyard). School holidays will be interesting! Now if only everything apart from the airfares were more affordable! People will still travel.

[blubak]

Yep borders need to come down and concentrate on the national approach.

2021 should be a booming year for domestic tourism. VIC/NSW snow fields for winter, NT/QLD for the dry, remote Australia, WA so much to offer, Tassie.

Aus has it all, no not ideal as people like me love overseas travel but for now Aus will do, open the borders, keep them open and promote AUSTRALIAN DOMESTIC TOURISM.
Very hard on the asian countries that rely so much on australian tourists but for now to keep us safe & as covid free as possible & to support our domestic tourism the dollars we have in our pockets need to be spent in our own backyard.
There are so many great destinations in every state that can be enjoyed & right now the places & people that rely on tourism need & want our business.

[jrfsp]

There's a reason people didn't holiday in Australia pre-COVID, and it hasn't gone away. It's farkin expensive!! Especially so if you have a family and are tied to peak times such as school holidays etc. in an environment where you are a captive market.

100% ...Lots of people are having long weekends here and there, but waiting for Asia to reopen for big holidays

[patty50]

I’ve read this back three times and I haven’t a clue what you’re trying to convince.

We have vaccines for many communicable diseases.

We still spend huge amounts of money on education, transmission control, contact tracing etc. We don’t go “we have a vaccine and will learn to live with it”.

Measles, whooping cough, hepatitis B, influenza all have significant non-vaccine public health measures despite high vaccination rates. I’d imagine COVID will be the same.






If full vaccination is not good enough for you then what is?

Either we learn to live with it, or life even close to what we knew, is over.



Danny is indignant at even having a test to go travelling, wants to bring whatever new mutation he’s acquired with him quarantine and test free because he’s had a vaccine.

Life here in Aus is basically normal, we have QR codes everywhere to check in and tape on the ground but other than that you’d have no idea of much happening. It’ll be hard for us to give that up to have whinging poms providing Bondi Rescue fodder.

[McLimit]

There will be future mutations, nothing can be done about that and this virus is going nowhere. Either we learn to live with it, or life even close to what we knew, is over.

Personally, I’d like to learn to live with it. Life as it is right now is not for me

You have absolutely no place in this country, let alone society. I don't want anybody new in my backyard, let alone my country.

I think Daniel Andrews is the consumate politician, he always tells me the truth, tells it to me straight. Both he and VicPol are on the same page and that's what you want, the police in the back pocket of the ruling party.

Annie up in Queensland, she's keeping me safe, when the virus was running rampant in QLD, the hospitals were over run, all ventilators used, she ensured that queensland hospitals were for queenslanders only. We have a saying up in queensland 'we're all in this together' and when those hospitals were secured for us, we proved that all us queenslanders were indeed all in it together. NSW was good enough to let the overflow into the tweed hospital, even though we told them to eff off when they wanted to come up to gods country hospitals.

That Western Australian bloke, how good is he? Mr 80% he's keeping me safe, and everybody else in Australia, quick with advice to every other state that they too can eliminate the virus, well, except NSW if his advice to funnel every returning Australian through Sydney airport and hotels is to be followed. Bloody NSW taking all the flotsam and jetsam. What a hole, they all walk around the streets like there's no bloody cases, it's irresponsible and just damn dangerous, next thing you know they'll be letting friggin' kiwis in, FFS.

Don't start me on that bloody dangerous and irresponsible state, NSW, not keeping anybody bloody safe, what a bloody fool the premier is, not keeping anybody safe.

When you look at who's gotten us through all the hard times in this country, throughout history, it's our precious boomers, god love em. Can we just listen to them when they say 'I'm scared, I'm petrified' 'Annie told me I'd be dead within days if I didn't vote her back in' 'Dan told me I'd be dead within days, because the one case that caused lockdown was spreading at an unprecedented rate......to the two other people' 'Mark told me I'd be dead within days, while the one case they picked up was spreading at unprecedented rates to........no one'

I know who I trust and believe you fools.

[DHC8 Driver]

You have absolutely no place in this country, let alone society. I don't want anybody new in my backyard, let alone my country.

I think Daniel Andrews is the consumate politician, he always tells me the truth, tells it to me straight. Both he and VicPol are on the same page and that's what you want, the police in the back pocket of the ruling party.

Annie up in Queensland, she's keeping me safe, when the virus was running rampant in QLD, the hospitals were over run, all ventilators used, she ensured that queensland hospitals were for queenslanders only. We have a saying up in queensland 'we're all in this together' and when those hospitals were secured for us, we proved that all us queenslanders were indeed all in it together. NSW was good enough to let the overflow into the tweed hospital, even though we told them to eff off when they wanted to come up to gods country hospitals.

That Western Australian bloke, how good is he? Mr 80% he's keeping me safe, and everybody else in Australia, quick with advice to every other state that they too can eliminate the virus, well, except NSW if his advice to funnel every returning Australian through Sydney airport and hotels. Bloody NSW taking all the flotsam and jetsam. What a hole, they all walk around the streets like there's no bloody cases, it's irresponsible and just damn dangerous, next thing you know they'll be letting friggin' kiwis in, FFS.

Don't start me on that bloody dangerous and irresponsible state, NSW, not keeping anybody bloody safe, what a bloody fool the premier is, not keeping anybody safe.

When you look at who's gotten us through all the hard times in this country, throughout history, it's our precious boomers, god love em. Can we just listen to them when they say 'I'm scared, I'm petrified' 'Annie told me I'd be dead within days if I didn't vote her back in' 'Dan told me I'd be dead within days, because the one case that caused lockdown was spreading at an unprecedented rate......to the two other people' 'Mark told me I'd be dead within days, while the one case they picked up was spreading at unprecedented rates to........no one'

I know who I trust and believe you fools.

Interesting rant. Have you tried Valium.

[WingNut60]

Interesting rant. Have you tried Valium.
He's the bloke who hits the brakes AFTER he's run into the gum tree.

[McLimit]

Interesting rant. Have you tried Valium.

You're a bloody ranter, you ranter :ok:

Have you tried Valium.

How would you know about Valium? Good is it?

[McLimit]

He's the bloke who hits the brakes AFTER he's run into the gum tree.

Leave old mate pineapple driver alone, he's backing you up Boomer :ok:

[Transition Layer]

You have absolutely no place in this country, let alone society. I don't want anybody new in my backyard, let alone my country.

I think Daniel Andrews is the consumate politician, he always tells me the truth, tells it to me straight. Both he and VicPol are on the same page and that's what you want, the police in the back pocket of the ruling party.

Annie up in Queensland, she's keeping me safe, when the virus was running rampant in QLD, the hospitals were over run, all ventilators used, she ensured that queensland hospitals were for queenslanders only. We have a saying up in queensland 'we're all in this together' and when those hospitals were secured for us, we proved that all us queenslanders were indeed all in it together. NSW was good enough to let the overflow into the tweed hospital, even though we told them to eff off when they wanted to come up to gods country hospitals.

That Western Australian bloke, how good is he? Mr 80% he's keeping me safe, and everybody else in Australia, quick with advice to every other state that they too can eliminate the virus, well, except NSW if his advice to funnel every returning Australian through Sydney airport and hotels is to be followed. Bloody NSW taking all the flotsam and jetsam. What a hole, they all walk around the streets like there's no bloody cases, it's irresponsible and just damn dangerous, next thing you know they'll be letting friggin' kiwis in, FFS.

Don't start me on that bloody dangerous and irresponsible state, NSW, not keeping anybody bloody safe, what a bloody fool the premier is, not keeping anybody safe.

When you look at who's gotten us through all the hard times in this country, throughout history, it's our precious boomers, god love em. Can we just listen to them when they say 'I'm scared, I'm petrified' 'Annie told me I'd be dead within days if I didn't vote her back in' 'Dan told me I'd be dead within days, because the one case that caused lockdown was spreading at an unprecedented rate......to the two other people' 'Mark told me I'd be dead within days, while the one case they picked up was spreading at unprecedented rates to........no one'

I know who I trust and believe you fools.

Brilliant McLimit :ok:

At least one person here understands your satire! :}

[BA_Baracas]

We have vaccines for many communicable diseases.

We still spend huge amounts of money on education, transmission control, contact tracing etc. We don’t go “we have a vaccine and will learn to live with it”.

Measles, whooping cough, hepatitis B, influenza all have significant non-vaccine public health measures despite high vaccination rates. I’d imagine COVID will be the same.






Danny is indignant at even having a test to go travelling, wants to bring whatever new mutation he’s acquired with him quarantine and test free because he’s had a vaccine.

Life here in Aus is basically normal, we have QR codes everywhere to check in and tape on the ground but other than that you’d have no idea of much happening. It’ll be hard for us to give that up to have whinging poms providing Bondi Rescue fodder.


Fair enough...

I have no skin in the game now, my Aussie grandparents are no longer with us, but still intrigued by how things are panning out back there.

My point is, there will always be new mutations, vaccines aren’t gonna stop that. The only way you’re going to keep them out is to keep the doors shut indefinitely. If you’re happy with that solution, then good on ya, you’ve played a blinder.
I still have family and friends there tho, and I know how much you like to travel. So I can’t quite work out your endgame.


And I wouldn't worry about the whinging poms too much, they have plenty of other places desperate to take their money.

[fl dutchman]

My Son, Daughter and Grandchildren are all Australian citizens living in WA.

I have not seen them for over a year now. If the plan is to never have any cases even when the vaccine is rolled out, the borders will have to remain shut forever and I am unlikley to see them ever again.

I am not alone with this situation of course. No doubt it is causing a great deal of heartache for many other people as it is for my family and myself.

As it stands I am not a close enough relative as a parent to get an exception to enter Australia.
If one of them became terminally ill or died its "possible" that I would be allowed in. But we do not want that to happen of course.

I can understand the logic of wanting to keep the borders closed right now, The Australian Government and the State Premiers have done a very good job of Protecting Australian citizens from the virus,

However even with vaccines there will be cases but much less in numbers than without the vaccine. Severe illness and deaths will also be significantly be reduced.

The vaccine should help control Covid while letting society return to normal rather like the seasonal Flu is controlled with a modified vaccine to cope with variants each year. So where is this policy of total elimination going. Is there ever going to be a way out.

Surely the time must come when citizens with overseas close relatives in my case a parent can once again come to Australia to see there family.

Personally I would be happy to Take a covid test before departure to Australia, Produce a vaccination certificate. Go into a 14 night or whatever Quarantine. Get another couple of tests before being released into society all at my own cost.

If 1500 or whatever the number was of Tennis people, Actors TV stars etc are allowed in why are close families being kept apart causing so much misery.

Sorry to rant on but wonder what the general opinion is regarding this.
..

[WingNut60]

My Son, Daughter and Grandchildren are all Australian citizens living in WA.

I have not seen them for over a year now. If the plan is to never have any cases even when the vaccine is rolled out, the borders will have to remain shut forever and I am unlikley to see them ever again.

I am not alone with this situation of course. No doubt it is causing a great deal of heartache for many other people as it is for my family and myself.

As it stands I am not a close enough relative as a parent to get an exception to enter Australia.
If one of them became terminally ill or died its "possible" that I would be allowed in. But we do not want that to happen of course.

I can understand the logic of wanting to keep the borders closed right now, The Australian Government and the State Premiers have done a very good job of Protecting Australian citizens from the virus,

However even with vaccines there will be cases but much less in numbers than without the vaccine. Severe illness and deaths will also be significantly be reduced.

The vaccine should help control Covid while letting society return to normal rather like the seasonal Flu is controlled with a modified vaccine to cope with variants each year. So where is this policy of total elimination going. Is there ever going to be a way out.

Surely the time must come when citizens with overseas close relatives in my case a parent can once again come to Australia to see there family.

Personally I would be happy to Take a covid test before departure to Australia, Produce a vaccination certificate. Go into a 14 night or whatever Quarantine. Get another couple of tests before being released into society all at my own cost.

If 1500 or whatever the number was of Tennis people, Actors TV stars etc are allowed in why are close families being kept apart causing so much misery.

Sorry to rant on but wonder what the general opinion is regarding this.
..
I do not believe that there is any intention of the federal government to "lock the international borders forever".
You would need to ask ScoMo about that.

But, two genuine questions

a) did you have any intention of visiting Australia in this last year or within the next 12 months or of your family doing the reverse trip in that period?
b) how often would you do so - COVID notwithstanding.

[Clare Prop]

Sorry to rant on but wonder what the general opinion is regarding this.
..

I'm seeing more of my UK family than ever. We have a regular Zoom catch up which is great fun. It's actually brought us all closer together and I haven't had to spend a fortune to drag myself across the world once a year then drive all over England in the rain to see them one at a time. Best of all I get to see my little great-niece regularly, something I missed with my niece and nephews.

So we just need to adapt and make the most of the technology that we have these days.

Plus enjoy having the time and money to appreciate this beautiful country we live in.

[ScepticalOptomist]

You have absolutely no place in this country, let alone society. I don't want anybody new in my backyard, let alone my country.

I think Daniel Andrews is the consumate politician, he always tells me the truth, tells it to me straight. Both he and VicPol are on the same page and that's what you want, the police in the back pocket of the ruling party.

Annie up in Queensland, she's keeping me safe, when the virus was running rampant in QLD, the hospitals were over run, all ventilators used, she ensured that queensland hospitals were for queenslanders only. We have a saying up in queensland 'we're all in this together' and when those hospitals were secured for us, we proved that all us queenslanders were indeed all in it together. NSW was good enough to let the overflow into the tweed hospital, even though we told them to eff off when they wanted to come up to gods country hospitals.

That Western Australian bloke, how good is he? Mr 80% he's keeping me safe, and everybody else in Australia, quick with advice to every other state that they too can eliminate the virus, well, except NSW if his advice to funnel every returning Australian through Sydney airport and hotels is to be followed. Bloody NSW taking all the flotsam and jetsam. What a hole, they all walk around the streets like there's no bloody cases, it's irresponsible and just damn dangerous, next thing you know they'll be letting friggin' kiwis in, FFS.

Don't start me on that bloody dangerous and irresponsible state, NSW, not keeping anybody bloody safe, what a bloody fool the premier is, not keeping anybody safe.

When you look at who's gotten us through all the hard times in this country, throughout history, it's our precious boomers, god love em. Can we just listen to them when they say 'I'm scared, I'm petrified' 'Annie told me I'd be dead within days if I didn't vote her back in' 'Dan told me I'd be dead within days, because the one case that caused lockdown was spreading at an unprecedented rate......to the two other people' 'Mark told me I'd be dead within days, while the one case they picked up was spreading at unprecedented rates to........no one'

I know who I trust and believe you fools.

Love your sense of humour!!

Had a great chuckle - thanks!

[McLimit]

At least one person here understands your satire! https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

Thanks TL, apparently it was a rant? Keh? :}


Love your sense of humour!!

Had a great chuckle - thanks!

SC

:ok: I admit to laughing at my own humour a little too much :}

[BA_Baracas]

I'm seeing more of my UK family than ever. We have a regular Zoom catch up which is great fun. It's actually brought us all closer together and I haven't had to spend a fortune to drag myself across the world once a year then drive all over England in the rain to see them one at a time. Best of all I get to see my little great-niece regularly, something I missed with my niece and nephews.

So we just need to adapt and make the most of the technology that we have these days.

Plus enjoy having the time and money to appreciate this beautiful country we live in.

That’s great, but are you happy to do that indefinitely? Because until Australia is willing to accept that if the doors are eventually opened there is no way of keeping the virus out, then that’s where you’re headed.

If so there’s gonna be a lot of very unhappy Australians in the tourism and hospitality sectors.

[McLimit]

I have not seen them for over a year now. If the plan is to never have any cases even when the vaccine is rolled out, the borders will have to remain shut forever and I am unlikley to see them ever again.

I don't think I'd call myself a proud Australian, mainly because I'm not nationalistic, jingoistic or boganistic. But what I can say is I've never been more embarrassed or ashamed of being Australian. What you are seeing is a bunch of ninnies taking control of the narrative, it's downright xenophobic. To listen and read the interstate rivalry is pathetic and it's now extended to keeping you 'foreigners' out. This despite Australia becoming one of the most diverse nations on the earth.

But, what we'll do is make sure the people who've made this nation their new home can't see family and friends and not allow Australians with family overseas to see theirs, Haven't seen my daughter for 18 months now, add probably another year to that. Whomever asked the question, how many times did you see them prior to covid? I made 6 monthly trips to see her. Whomever you are that 'hasn't seen more of their family since covid started'........on zoom and skype? You're serious are you? Zoom satisfies your need to embrace your loved ones? That's a bit strange to me, sorry.

spy v spy: xenophobia, it stinks and is disgraceful.

[McLimit]

That’s great, but are you happy to do that indefinitely? Because until Australia is willing to accept that if the doors are eventually opened there is no way of keeping the virus out, then that’s where you’re headed.

I will bet my bottom dollar, that a vaccine will make zero difference to lockdown policy that clown in WA is running, one case, lockdown.

If so there’s gonna be a lot of very unhappy Australians in the tourism and hospitality sectors.

Queensland tourism is collapsing, the Queensland premier was arrogant and stupid enough to think that internal tourism would keep the economy alive, that's what a 'Queensland is for Queenslanders' policy will do for you. Now she's begging for federal handouts.

[Angle of Attack]

Closing Credits of “Get Smart” Roll!

Boom Qld border shut tonight to NZ, they had 2 more high school kids in Auckland test positive who were in managed isolation. I’m expecting 2 more years of this crap, it will get better slowly but it will still be crap. International? I’m thinking late 2022 by the way these clowns are operating.

[fl dutchman]

I do not believe that there is any intention of the federal government to "lock the international borders forever".
You would need to ask ScoMo about that.

But, two genuine questions

a) did you have any intention of visiting Australia in this last year or within the next 12 months or of your family doing the reverse trip in that period?
b) how often would you do so - COVID notwithstanding.

Yes I did I was due to travel over on the day the borders closed. I was actually checked in and waiting for a taxi to the airport when I heard I could not travel. Since then I have been re booked on 4 subsequent flights at various dates. All eventually cancelled.

I normally visit 3 times per year.

My next booking is towards the end of 21. Booked it as something to look forward to assuming the vaccine here and in Australia would make a difference by then, fingers crossed, but is unlikely to fly unless the authorities rethink the border situation.

[WingNut60]

Yes I did I was due to travel over on the day the borders closed. I was actually checked in and waiting for a taxi to the airport when I heard I could not travel. Since then I have been re booked on 4 subsequent flights at various dates. All eventually cancelled.

I normally visit 3 times per year.

My next booking is towards the end of 21. Booked it as something to look forward to assuming the vaccine here and in Australia would make a difference by then, fingers crossed, but is unlikely to fly unless the authorities rethink the border situation.

Only time will tell, I suppose, but I think (yep, my opinion) you're booking probably scrapes in as a realistic goal.
Once widespread vaccination has been achieved then I can't see any point maintaining a general lock on international borders.
But I can't imagine ScoMo just suddenly saying "OK, we're open again. Come on in" either.
I'm expecting a few provisos. Vaccination certificates, etc.

I wish you well.

[jrfsp]

Closing Credits of “Get Smart” Roll!

Boom Qld border shut tonight to NZ, they had 2 more high school kids in Auckland test positive who were in managed isolation. I’m expecting 2 more years of this crap, it will get better slowly but it will still be crap. International? I’m thinking late 2022 by the way these clowns are operating.

Who cares, its a non reciprocal agreement with NZ anyway. We're almost at the point of unrestricted domestic travel - how stupid would it be if we let covid enter from NZ, can you imagine the consequence - lockdowns, public uproar etc. The risk seems tiny, but is it worth the risk when we have waited so long to get to this point, especially when its a non-reciprocal bubble.

[Angle of Attack]

Public uproar? I’ll tell you a little secret buddy, every single outbreak since a year ago has been linked to ****ty hotel quarantine. The only interstate infection was to NSW while VIC was having hundreds of cases per day.
Let that sink in for a while, while you are dreaming, unrestricted domestic travel will get destroyed just when it seems it’s all ok, I’ll give it another 2 years until they sort it. 2 more cases in managed isolation in Auckland? You have to be ****ting me, this is ridiculous.

[Angle of Attack]

Again I will repeat the only interstate infection has been from VIC to NSW when they had hundreds of cases per day, yeah there was a couple of chicks that travelled to QLD but only caused a few cases. Oh I just realised you live in WA, forget all I said, just live in your isolation, that’s much better!

[Angle of Attack]

The risk is so tiny that the wings will detach from the aircraft when we fly them so let’s negate that risk? You sand gropers are so fing stupid you don’t even realise it

[Angle of Attack]

If you think domestic borders are now in a nirvana good on you, they will be slammed shut multiple times for the rest of this year. Until people actually rise up and tell these idiots nothing will change.

[jrfsp]

Why don’t you pop a couple of valium and get yourself off to bed, must be late over there —wouldn’t want you bursting a blood vessel over that keyboard

[McLimit]

AoA, valium has popped up as a tool quite a few times on this thread, maybe it's a western stater thing? Maybe that's what they're on?

Hasn't seemed to have calmed their state of paranoia though?

[Chronic Snoozer]

If you think domestic borders are now in a nirvana good on you, they will be slammed shut multiple times for the rest of this year. Until people actually rise up and tell these idiots nothing will change.

They’re just following the health advice of the CMOs.

[SHVC]

Queen P in the North is requesting an urgent national cabinet meeting because a Dr broke the rules now the roll out is being hampered. The way she is carrying on it is further killing public confidence when the Federal Gov is at no fault here.
every medical practitioner is aware that the course must be completed to administer the vaccine.

[Australopithecus]

An article in The Atlantic discusses the American perspective on when the pandemic can be declared over. There are a few similarities but of course there is a wide gulf between them and how the states and people here view risks and responsibilities.

The article mentions that once covid deaths approximate the annual flu toll might be an appropriate milestone to re-open society and borders. That seems to be a measured view, given that Covid-19 will be with us forever.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/02/how-know-when-pandemic-over/618122/

[Australopithecus]

Queen P in the North is requesting an urgent national cabinet meeting because a Dr broke the rules now the roll out is being hampered. The way she is carrying on it is further killing public confidence when the Federal Gov is at no fault here.
every medical practitioner is aware that the course must be completed to administer the vaccine.

Have you ever heard of a health care protocol that allows injections without two party patient ID and dose confirmation? That doctor bypassed the mandatory training too, all of which points to a larger individual problem as opposed to something systemic.

[SHVC]

My wife is a Dr, she has not done the course and is well aware she can not administer the vaccine. This Dr should of know also. this Dr was employed by the very health agency providing the course.

[Foxxster]

Oh dear, I wonder if Mr Joyce has seen this.

Summer holidays hang in the balance after the World Health Organisation (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/world-health-organization/index.html) urged against using vaccine passports to facilitate international travel.

It said proof of a jab should not be required because there remain 'critical unknowns regarding the efficacy of vaccination in reducing transmission'.

The WHO added that inoculated passengers should not be able to sidestep existing travel restrictions designed to reduce Covid.
Setting out the WHO stance, the interim position paper states: 'At the present time, it is WHO's position that national authorities and conveyance operators should not introduce requirements of proof of COVID-19 vaccination for international travel as a condition for departure or entry.'It is a fresh blow for both holidaymakers and tourism bosses hoping vaccine passports will pave the way for overseas trips.

That people should be mandated to have a vaccine to enjoy greater freedom is a politically divisive issue being fought out in national capitals.

The WHO's paper also says: 'National authorities should choose public health interventions that least infringe on individual freedom of movement.'

[Australopithecus]

I don’t quite understand the WHO: they were about six weeks late declaring the pandemic. They have engaged in appeasement with China regarding origins and reporting. Now they are engaged in hand-wringing over some “right” that is certainly not a given, nor does it acknowledge any nation's absolute right to decide conditions of entry.

There is no way that this policy is going to fly.

[Foxxster]

I don’t quite understand the WHO: they were about six weeks late declaring the pandemic. They have engaged in appeasement with China regarding origins and reporting. Now they are engaged in hand-wringing over some “right” that is certainly not a given, nor does it acknowledge any nation's absolute right to decide conditions of entry.

There is no way that this policy is going to fly.

oh to call them grossly incompetent is being far to kind. They are the WuHan Health Organisation, the head bought and paid for by China.

yes, see attached as per their press releases. They, like many / most UN organisations are not fit for purpose.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/566x906/ea17807b_4f6d_4aa9_9611_7e408b50df83_325ce2f862470d6f888442a e00216d618881214f.jpeg

[SOPS]

When this all started, I started a thread ‘ Is the WHO fit for purpose?’. I don’t think it is. It’s been led by China from the start.

[WingNut60]

Queen P in the North is requesting an urgent national cabinet meeting because a Dr broke the rules now the roll out is being hampered. The way she is carrying on it is further killing public confidence when the Federal Gov is at no fault here.
every medical practitioner is aware that the course must be completed to administer the vaccine.

Not quite correct, apparently. The vaccination program in aged care facilities including the necessary training is a federal government-managed initiative.
“Vaccination for residents and staff will be made available through residential aged care facilities where they live or work, and it will be administered through an in-reach workforce provider,” Minister Hunt said.
“Healthcare Australia will be providing the vaccination workforce in New South Wales and Queensland, and Aspen Medical will be responsible for the other states and territories.

[Angle of Attack]

Never heard of Valium, well I’ve heard of it but never taken it. Pfizer, AstraZeneca and presumably Moderna Vaccines have shown 100% efficacy in preventing serious disease and hospitalisation with COVID19. Now with a vaccinated population that pretty much makes Covid19 less dangerous than the common flu. In a good year high hundreds die in a bad year high thousands die from flu in Aus, Is McClown still going to close the borders if there is an outbreak of COVID? I think this is the question going into the future, politicians have made out this COVID is like AIDS times 10 when it isn’t. Shut the borders for Flu? Because the Flu was pretty much non existent last year it will come back with vengeance this year or next.

[McLimit]

He will close it for 1 case the arseclown.

[SHVC]

Not quite correct, apparently. The vaccination program in aged care facilities including the necessary training is a federal government-managed initiative.

I meant the fed gov is not responsible for rogue Drs. This Dr would of know they were not qualified.

[dr dre]

Never heard of Valium, well I’ve heard of it but never taken it. Pfizer, AstraZeneca and presumably Moderna Vaccines have shown 100% efficacy in preventing serious disease and hospitalisation with COVID19. Now with a vaccinated population that pretty much makes Covid19 less dangerous than the common flu. In a good year high hundreds die in a bad year high thousands die from flu in Aus, Is McClown still going to close the borders if there is an outbreak of COVID? I think this is the question going into the future, politicians have made out this COVID is like AIDS times 10 when it isn’t. Shut the borders for Flu? Because the Flu was pretty much non existent last year it will come back with vengeance this year or next.

Well you’ve mostly answered your own question. There is a difference between a virus spreading unchecked through a naive population vs an immunised one. That’s what the health advice is based on. Just need the required number of vaccinations first.

So if Premiers are just going to keep borders closed forever then why are they all signing up to the National Vaccine strategy? Bit of a costly exercise if nothing will change huh?

There is a difference now between Covid and influenza, given there is a vaccine to the flu and a level of immunity in the population. The whole point of the vaccine program is to make Covid like the flu. Because there was a larger uptake of the flu vax last year (from about 20 to 70%) this caused the flu season to be substantially less (along with hand sanitising, awareness of illness and more isolation).

You won’t get any information right now from any government about a change to border policy because they have more pressing issues to deal with, although they’re now starting to be discussed at a higher level at national cabinet.

The WA Health Minister was asked about a change to border and quarantine policy on local radio recently and said the vaccinations will change the requirements around quarantine at some point in the future, but that will come after sorting out distribution and supply of the vaccine, and encouraging people to take it.

[McLimit]

Yeah/nah, he'll close it for one case. One thing we've learn't from this is that epidemiologists have now become god and other medical doctors are unheard.

[WingNut60]

I meant the fed gov is not responsible for rogue Drs. This Dr would of know they were not qualified.
The federal government appointed a contractor to perform a critical function that included ensuring that their representatives were properly trained and accredited to perform those critical tasks.
They failed to do that.

That is why Hunt is looking for heads to chop off while simultaneously diving for cover.

Much like the castigation that Daniel Andrews has been subject to for appointing incompetent security contractors.

[Foxxster]

The federal government appointed a contractor to perform a critical function that included ensuring that their representatives were properly trained and accredited to perform those critical tasks.
They failed to do that.

That is why Hunt is looking for heads to chop off while simultaneously diving for cover.

Much like the castigation that Daniel Andrews has been subject to for appointing incompetent security contractors.

yes partly true. But you forgot the bit about Andrews being offered help by the commonwealth government in relation to hotel quarantine and him refusing it on more than one occasion and then blatantly lying about it despite emails proving it.

as a general point though, while aged care is a federal responsibility the vaccine rollout should really be a state responsibility as they are the ones who employ the doctors and nurses en masse in hospitals. The federal government is not equipped or practiced in delivering this kind of service.

[minigundiplomat]

Because there was a larger uptake of the flu vax last year (from about 20 to 70%) this caused the flu season to be substantially less

You're saying that with a straight face?

[dr dre]

You're saying that with a straight face?

Yep, one study here (https://theconversation.com/heres-why-the-2017-flu-season-was-so-bad-86605) showing a 27% flu vaccine uptake in Australia in 2017. And although the data is still being processed the 2020 flu vaccine uptake is certainly substantially more, from an estimated 60% (https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/wellbeing/2020/05/28/flu-shot-herd-immunity/) to approximately 70% uptake. (https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/Article/2020/09/01/Australia-tracks-35-jump-in-flu-vaccine-shipments)

If we could get those numbers with the totally free Covid vax this industry would be back on track.

[WingNut60]

yes partly true. But you forgot the bit about Andrews being offered help by the commonwealth government in relation to hotel quarantine and him refusing it on more than one occasion and then blatantly lying about it despite emails proving it.

as a general point though, while aged care is a federal responsibility the vaccine rollout should really be a state responsibility as they are the ones who employ the doctors and nurses en masse in hospitals. The federal government is not equipped or practiced in delivering this kind of service.
Not defending Andrews at all. And don't disagree with your assertion that responsibility for the vaccine rollout should be a states responsibility.
But it isn't. It IS a federal responsibility so Mr Hunt needs to come out from under his desk and perhaps explain the selection process that saw the contract going to a company that, within a few days of starting the vaccination operation, made a very serious cock-up of it.

[WingNut60]

Yep, one study here (https://theconversation.com/heres-why-the-2017-flu-season-was-so-bad-86605) showing a 27% flu vaccine uptake in Australia in 2017. And although the data is still being processed the 2020 flu vaccine uptake is certainly substantially more, from an estimated 60% (https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/wellbeing/2020/05/28/flu-shot-herd-immunity/) to approximately 70% uptake. (https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/Article/2020/09/01/Australia-tracks-35-jump-in-flu-vaccine-shipments)

If we could get those numbers with the totally free Covid vax this industry would be back on track.
That is both interesting and surprising.
I am sure that there will be some really interesting analyses come out of this little episode in a year or three.

I had already assumed that the very low flu count in 2020 was mainly the result of social distancing and increased attention to personal hygiene.

[Square Bear]

And although the data is still being processed the 2020 flu vaccine uptake is certainly substantially more, from an estimated 60% (https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/wellbeing/2020/05/28/flu-shot-herd-immunity/) to approximately 70% uptake. (https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/Article/2020/09/01/Australia-tracks-35-jump-in-flu-vaccine-shipments)

Haven’t found a source that backs your numbers (and not saying they are not there, but) ...however quite an amount of that 2020 uptake could very well be attributed to the fact that those who wished to visit loved ones in aged care we’re required to produce a certificate, or at the very least declare that they had had the “flu shot” prior to moving past the front desk.

For each Care Resident you might find that there were quite a number of “flu shot” recipients who would otherwise not have been injected..

Numbers and percentages are one thing, reasons for uptake are another.

But I have no doubt you have an argument that counters that....(sigh).

[601]

But it isn't. It IS a federal responsibility so Mr Hunt needs to come out from under his desk and perhaps explain the selection process that saw the contract going to a company that, within a few days of starting the vaccination operation, made a very serious cock-up of it.

So the next time a pilot stuffs up the CEO is to blame??
I have always said that you can have a s#!t load of rules and regs but it is the nut holding the levers or in this case the needle, who can still stuff up.
It is always someone fault other than the person who actually stuffed up.

[WingNut60]

So the next time a pilot stuffs up the CEO is to blame??
I have always said that you can have a s#!t load of rules and regs but it is the nut holding the levers or in this case the needle, who can still stuff up.
It is always someone fault other than the person who actually stuffed up.
But that is the logic that has been applied to Daniel Andrews for the last 194 pages.
Why would you want to change it in this case?

You know......the buck stops here.

[C441]

But that is the logic that has been applied to Daniel Andrews for the last 194 pages.
Why would you want to change it in this case?
From a discussion with those in both events there is a difference. In the Victorian quarantine case, the securing/security of the hotels was contracted out to private operator who were expected to know what to do; that is minimal direction from the relevant authority.
In the case here in Queensland, the contract with the provider did state the requirements and the contractor agreed that they would be met and their staff were qualified. In the end it was basically a case of negligence on the part of the administering doctor. A friend who has been administering the vaccine indicated that it would be arguably incompetent to have administered all four doses from one vial, even if he'd had no more than his normal qualifications. As she said, if he'd followed his normal procedure it would not have happened. A failure to follow SOPs I guess.

[WingNut60]

From a discussion with those in both events there is a difference. In the Victorian quarantine case, the securing/security of the hotels was contracted out to private operator who were expected to know what to do; that is minimal direction from the relevant authority.
In the case here in Queensland, the contract with the provider did state the requirements and the contractor agreed that they would be met and their staff were qualified. In the end it was basically a case of negligence on the part of the administering doctor. A friend who has been administering the vaccine indicated that it would be arguably incompetent to have administered all four doses from one vial, even if he'd had no more than his normal qualifications. As she said, if he'd followed his normal procedure it would not have happened. A failure to follow SOPs I guess.
I'm not questioning at all the degree of incompetence of the administering doctor. Even I'd have known not to give the full bottle, that aspect has been covered on TV multiple times.
And ask any nurse, many doctors don't know how to give injections anyway. They so seldom need to do it.

I am just a bit jaded after reading nearly 200 pages of attributing blame for every minor detail to the the person in the highest position THAT THE CONTRIBUTOR DOES NOT LIKE.

[wheels_down]

Fox and Co laughing all the way to the bank again, courtesy of the Victorian Labor party.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/politics/victoria/running-with-foxes-daniel-s-dining-and-dealings-with-go-to-billionaire-20210225-p575yu.html

[Foxxster]

Fox and Co laughing all the way to the bank again, courtesy of the Victorian Labor party.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/politics/victoria/running-with-foxes-daniel-s-dining-and-dealings-with-go-to-billionaire-20210225-p575yu.html


ha. Not only a Labor premier doing the bidding of his billionaire mate but Bill Kelty , ex union official also best mates with the billionaire. And yet Labor and their supporters scream how the Liberals are the party of billionaire mates and interests. And these same Labor supporters are too stupid to realise the big unions sold out workers as did the Labor party ,one and the same, to big business decades ago. We saw that with Bill the pieman Shorten during the union Royal Commission.

and of course people like Simon Bourke federal Labor were regular guests at the billionaire Pratt family ski lodge.

But this article is yet more proof Andrews needs to resign or be forced out.

examples of Labor and unions selling out workers, especially penalty rates, doing the bidding of big business.

Both Coles and the Shop, Distributive & Allied Employees Association (SDA) had fought for years to keep the previous deal which paid tens of thousands of workers less than the minimum rates of the award, the basic wages safety net.

The old deal slashed - or did not pay at all - penalty rates and other entitlements in exchange for modest increases in hourly pay.The SDA is well known for its conservative social positions whether on abortion, euthanasia and for many years on same sex marriage.

It is the largest affiliate of the ALP and has substantial political sway in Labor and the ACTU.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace/huge-pay-rise-for-coles-workers-after-scrapping-of-cosy-union-deal-20180811-p4zwwo.htmlBurger

giant McDonald's is underpaying its Australian workers tens of millions of dollars a year under a cosy deal struck with Labor's largest union affiliate that excludes weekend penalty rates.

A Fairfax Media investigation has found the Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees Association (SDA) negotiated a 2013 agreement under which some McDonald's employees are paid nearly one-third less than the award – the minimum pay and conditions safety net.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace/hamburgled-mcdonalds-coles-woolworths-workers-lose-in-union-pay-deals-20160518-goycw5.html

[DirectAnywhere]

There was an article on The Australian online today regarding an extension to Jobkeeper for the aviation sector (behind paywall). I can't find it now. It looks like it might be happening but perhaps the strategic leak from the Treasurer's office was a little too early and the article's been pulled until it can be more opportunely leaked/ announced.

[Foxxster]

There was an article on The Australian online today regarding an extension to Jobkeeper for the aviation sector (behind paywall). I can't find it now. It looks like it might be happening but perhaps the strategic leak from the Treasurer's office was a little too early and the article's been pulled until it can be more opportunely leaked/ announced.

https://www.newcastlestar.com.au/story/7145762/frydenberg-considering-aviation-support/

[Joker89]

ha. Not only a Labor premier doing the bidding of his billionaire mate but Bill Kelty , ex union official also best mates with the billionaire. And yet Labor and their supporters scream how the Liberals are the party of billionaire mates and interests. And these same Labor supporters are too stupid to realise the big unions sold out workers as did the Labor party ,one and the same, to big business decades ago. We saw that with Bill the pieman Shorten during the union Royal Commission.

and of course people like Simon Bourke federal Labor were regular guests at the billionaire Pratt family ski lodge.

But this article is yet more proof Andrews needs to resign or be forced out.

same deal happening in QLd with a toowoomba Quarantine center at well camp

[jrfsp]

Public uproar? I’ll tell you a little secret buddy, every single outbreak since a year ago has been linked to ****ty hotel quarantine. The only interstate infection was to NSW while VIC was having hundreds of cases per day.
Let that sink in for a while, while you are dreaming, unrestricted domestic travel will get destroyed just when it seems it’s all ok, I’ll give it another 2 years until they sort it. 2 more cases in managed isolation in Auckland? You have to be ****ting me, this is ridiculous.

Still ridiculous? 14 cases and counting

[McLimit]

Still ridiculous? 14 cases and counting

Holy snapping duck**** :eek: meanwhile, there's a death in Australia every 3 minutes and 13 seconds but..............Nobody cares unless the covid boogey man gets a boomer.

[Joker89]

Holy snapping duck**** :eek: meanwhile, there's a death in Australia every 3 minutes and 13 seconds but..............Nobody cares unless the covid boogey man gets a boomer.

haha, ain’t that the truth

[Icarus2001]

If you die WITH Covid it appears to be recorded as a Covid death. Apparently being hit by a bus is a result of the virus.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/more-than-70-of-covid-19-deaths-had-pre-existing-c

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/death-certificate-data-covid-19-as-the-underlying-cause-of-death/

[Foxxster]

Still ridiculous? 14 cases and counting

yep, but there might be more. They need to anally probe people as it is more accurate. The nasal probe gives more false negatives apparently. All together now, bend over and spread em.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9313905/Japan-asks-China-stop-carrying-anal-swabs-citizens.html

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

If you die WITH Covid it appears to be recorded as a Covid death. Apparently being hit by a bus is a result of the virus.

/ (https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/death-certificate-data-covid-19-as-the-underlying-cause-of-death/)

Except that isn’t what your linked articles are saying. If Covid isn’t either a contributory or underlying cause, then it isn’t (or at least shouldn’t be) recorded as a Covid death. As I understand it, it basically comes down to a question of ‘would this person still be alive if they didn’t have Covid-19?’ Someone who is flattened by a bus while they have Covid is not considered to have died from from Covid..

[Foxxster]

Except that isn’t what your linked articles are saying. If Covid isn’t either a contributory or underlying cause, then it isn’t (or at least shouldn’t be) recorded as a Covid death. As I understand it, it basically comes down to a question of ‘would this person still be alive if they didn’t have Covid-19?’ Someone who is flattened by a bus while they have Covid is not considered to have died from from Covid..


seem to have a problem in the UK. The actual quantity unknown, could be a few, might be a lot.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9305405/Grieving-relatives-demand-inquiry-loved-ones-wrongly-certified-virus-victims.html

[dr dre]

seem to have a problem in the UK. The actual quantity unknown, could be a few, might be a lot.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9305405/Grieving-relatives-demand-inquiry-loved-ones-wrongly-certified-virus-victims.html

C’mon Daily Mail? Quoting anonymous funeral directors (no formal qualifications needed) and anonymous unqualified family members who don’t want to accept their relations died of Covid for some reason?

We have factual evidence the pandemic is causing more death than usual, and that’s due the much higher excess death figures in every country affected by it. It’s the overwhelmed ICUs now with an increasingly younger cohort, the health staff running out of oxygen, important surgery being cancelled, ambulances told to not transport patients due to full hospitals, frontline health workers describing the conditions are the worst they’ve ever seen, the mass graves, etc

I know a lot of pilots want to believe medical experts are idiots and got it wrong (or are liars in some grand conspiracy). The facts aren’t with you. There is a serious pandemic, measures had to be taken and it caused negative effects to the aviation industry.

[Icarus2001]

There is no doubt Covid is killing people in significant numbers. The fatality rate somewhere between 2% and 3%.

I am certainly not a conspiracy theorist but I know that if there is an incentive to pad the figures then it will happen.

Reading your post, you are certainly correct about the "excess death rate" being a useful measure. I did wonder though about these...

important surgery being cancelled which would no doubt lead to people dying who could, with surgery, have survived...

ambulances told to not transport patients due to full hospitals again that would mean people who would normally be admitted and treated being turned away.

So not all the excess deaths are due to Covid directly, some are no doubt as a result indirectly as they were not treated or even admitted to hospital. Also the numbers of people avoiding presenting at a doctor or hospital with symptoms (not Covid) because they do not wish to be a burden on the NHS.

frontline health workers describing the conditions are the worst they’ve ever seen, the mass graves, etc Mass graves in the UK? Really? Where?

[Icarus2001]

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&time=earliest..latest&country=GBR~NZL~AUS&region=World

This is an interesting graph of excess deaths. Its shows that for short periods in the UK summer the excess death rate was NEGATIVE. Meaning less people were dying than the usual average.

[Fonz121]

Half of the expected doses given in first week. It’s not like they haven’t had time to plan this. Useless twats.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-02/charting-australias-covid-vaccine-rollout/13197518?nw=0

[cynphil]

I expect in Australia the timeline will be pushed out past the planned end of Oct 2021 for all who want the jab....how far out, is anyone’s guess! And this may have some effect on international, unfortunately.

[dr dre]

So not all the excess deaths are due to Covid directly, some are no doubt as a result indirectly as they were not treated or even admitted to hospital. Also the numbers of people avoiding presenting at a doctor or hospital with symptoms (not Covid) because they do not wish to be a burden on the NHS.

Mass graves in the UK? Really? Where?

Those excess deaths wouldn’t have occurred had the beds not be filled up by Covid patients, had ambulances not been otherwise occupied etc. So directly or indirectly it was the pandemic which caused that excess death.

Mass graves were dug in the United States (https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/new-york-buries-dozens-in-mass-graves-on-hart-island-as-death-toll-from-coronavirus-increases-c-970605) and Brazil (https://au.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/grim-photos-show-extent-of-staggering-virus-deaths-100659097.html), morgues were overfilled in Italy (https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/1887160/italys-dead-overwhelm-morgues-as-virus-toll-tops-8-000) and Spain (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/3/24/spains-makeshift-ice-rink-morgue-takes-first-delivery-of-corpses), amongst others.

[Icarus2001]

Check my maths...

Assuming 20,000,000 people to vaccinate, over eight months, March to October...

That requires 2,500,000 people per month to be vaccinated.

Assuming thirty days in a month, that requires 83,333 people PER DAY to be vaccinated.

OR

March to October is 245 days. 20,000,000 people into 245 days requires 81,632 PER DAY vaccinated.

Perhaps 20,000,000 is too ambitious?

[dr dre]

Check my maths...

Assuming 20,000,000 people to vaccinate, over eight months, March to October...

That requires 2,500,000 people per month to be vaccinated.

Assuming thirty days in a month, that requires 83,333 people PER DAY to be vaccinated.

OR

March to October is 245 days. 20,000,000 people into 245 days requires 81,632 PER DAY vaccinated.

Perhaps 20,000,000 is too ambitious?

The Pfizer vaccine needs special storage, transport and staff, but other vaccines like AZ can be transported and injected by GPs and pharmacists like a flu vaccine.

At the moment there’s less than a dozen vaccination sites in each state for Pfizer, as opposed to hundreds of GP clinics and Pharmacies that will be available when the more easily distributed vaccines come on line. So the rate of vaccination will shoot right up.

The UK has triple the population and is vaccinating up to 400,000 per day (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833). So Australia could get up 130,000 per day for the same rate and according to that math would only need 80,000 per day to reach the October target.

So it’s easily achievable, and for most Australians who are located in major urban centres should get access within months. The later time frame will be to get the vaccine to more remote communities I would say.

[Icarus2001]

Pharmacies? Will they be able to provide the injection? Only with a nurse on staff surely?

[dr dre]

Pharmacies? Will they be able to provide the injection? Only with a nurse on staff surely?

Nope. Most pharmacists can give a flu vaccine (and a whole host of other shots). No nurse required.

Pharmacies and GPs to participate in coronavirus vaccine rollout from phase 2a - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-31/coronavirus-vaccine-rollout-pharmacies-greg-hunt-covid-19/13106730)

[Foxxster]

C’mon Daily Mail? Quoting anonymous funeral directors (no formal qualifications needed) and anonymous unqualified family members who don’t want to accept their relations died of Covid for some reason?

We have factual evidence the pandemic is causing more death than usual, and that’s due the much higher excess death figures in every country affected by it. It’s the overwhelmed ICUs now with an increasingly younger cohort, the health staff running out of oxygen, important surgery being cancelled, ambulances told to not transport patients due to full hospitals, frontline health workers describing the conditions are the worst they’ve ever seen, the mass graves, etc

I know a lot of pilots want to believe medical experts are idiots and got it wrong (or are liars in some grand conspiracy). The facts aren’t with you. There is a serious pandemic, measures had to be taken and it caused negative effects to the aviation industry.​​​​​​

come on, dismissing something solely because you don’t like the source.

so did this happen or not. I guess not simply because it was reported in the Daily Mail.

Layla Moran, the Liberal Democrat MP who chairs the all-party parliamentary group on coronavirus, said: ‘The Government should call a public inquiry into the handling of the pandemic immediately with an interim investigation into all Covid deaths that should report as soon as possible

did this happen. I guess not solely because it was reported in the Daily Mail. Notice the quotes in both extracts.

Tory MP Paul Bristow, a member of the Commons health committee, said: ‘It’s almost certain that a number of deaths have been wrongly attributed to Covid-19.

‘Not only has this skewed figures when data has been so important in deciding how we respond to the pandemic, it has caused distress and anxiety for relatives.

‘Whether we have received the most appropriate figures should definitely be considered in any future inquiry

Did Clare really say this. Obviously not as it was reported in the Daily Mail.

Professor Clare Gerada, former chairman of the Royal College of GPs, said: ‘When this all comes out in the wash, we will find out we have over-recorded Covid-19 as a cause of death.’


we get it you don’t like the Daily Mail and therefore EVERYTHING reported in it is completely false. As I said in my previous post, the amount of over reporting may be a little or maybe a lot but what is certain is that it appears there has been some.... despite your ridiculous dismissal of the article.

[dr dre]

The way experts count the actual toll of a pandemic is excess mortality.

Every verified data source puts it much higher than in previous years:

An additional 104,520 people have died since March 2020 across the UK. Since the onset of the pandemic there have been six deaths for every five people who would be expected to die in an average year.

Excess deaths are fatalities above the five-year average and are seen as the gold standard in interpreting how many people have died as a result of the pandemic.

UK's excess death toll since start of Covid pandemic passes 100,000 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/02/uk-excess-death-toll-since-start-of-covid-pandemic-passes-100000)

Comparing that to the recorded 96,000 COVID deaths (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/) in the UK to around that time and the figures are similar enough to match.

Wondering whether or not some (and it would be a very small percentage) of recorded Covid deaths in the UK were classified incorrectly does not invalidate the health response to the pandemic.

[minigundiplomat]

The UK records every death within 28 days of a positive COVID test as a COVID death, regardless of whether they died on a ventilator or under a train.


People die, it is the one undisputed fact of life. You can move statistics around, call it excess deaths or anything you like, but none of us are staying around forever, and I am not sure when we, as a society, became so arrogant that we felt natures laws no longer apply to us. The medical profession need to rebalance their view of risk, or hand control back to politicians, but either way people will still die every year.

I know someone who died in a Melbourne care home from COVID, so I dispute neither its existence or virulence; but the individual was late 80's, morbidly obese, with alzheimers and emphysemia. Was the cause of death COVID? or was COVID a contributory factor in the same way that pneumonia is classified?

There is now a Brazilian strain - this sh1t is going to roll on for years. Its time we learned to live with it before the cancelled surgeries, undiagnosed cancers and mental health issues eclipse a virus with a 1.9% mortality rate.

[dr dre]

The medical profession need to rebalance their view of risk, or hand control back to politicians, but either way people will still die every year.


If the medical profession were secretly controlling politicians then we’d have bans on things like Tobacco, Alcohol advertising, Trans Fats, junior contact sports etc.

In reality we had a dangerous virus spread uncontrolled outside of Australia for a year before a vaccine was available. It is the vaccine that will ensure we can manage this risk to an acceptable level. That way the pandemic subsides and we manage it like a respiratory illness. Future variants are managed with different targeted seasonal vaccines, like influenza.

So yes this is how we are “learning to live with this”

[lc_461]

Check my maths...

Assuming 20,000,000 people to vaccinate, over eight months, March to October...

That requires 2,500,000 people per month to be vaccinated.

Assuming thirty days in a month, that requires 83,333 people PER DAY to be vaccinated.

OR

March to October is 245 days. 20,000,000 people into 245 days requires 81,632 PER DAY vaccinated.

Perhaps 20,000,000 is too ambitious?

Although the numbers sound high, in the pre-Christmas rush as a country I think COVID testing eclipsed 100K per day. The physical testing and vaccination process takes about the same amount of time.

[A320 Flyer]

Saw in the papers today McClown wants to keep the borders closed beyond COVID. He might win this election but the place will be decimated if he gets his way on this one

[jrfsp]

Saw in the papers today McClown wants to keep the borders closed beyond COVID. He might win this election but the place will be decimated if he gets his way on this one

https://www.watoday.com.au/politics/western-australia/wa-premier-mark-mcgowan-wants-to-keep-border-controls-beyond-pandemic-20210301-p576r5.html

Its only regarding inspections of freight at the border, which during covid increased and uncovered more drugs than normal.....No need to blow it out of context.

[McLimit]

If the medical profession were secretly controlling politicians then we’d have bans on things like Tobacco, Alcohol advertising, Trans Fats, junior contact sports etc.

Ya reckon? And put themselves out of work? What would they do instead, go out and get their pilot's licence?

[neville_nobody]

Its only regarding inspections of freight at the border, which during covid increased and uncovered more drugs than normal.....No need to blow it out of context.



Originally he said they wanted to track everybody inbound and keep the hard border. He was looking into keeping the G2G App as passport control. Everyone would have to apply to enter WA.

By the afternoon he had changed his mind. Or had it changed for him.

[Icarus2001]

The "hard border" was only deemed legal for virus control, not at the whim of a premier who likes the idea.

[A320 Flyer]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/828x1792/372efea4_afe8_4549_9b13_dc7c7ff096fb_6b728a2b2e388454f8a9f8e ca93cd685c0b7eb53.jpeg

[Buster Hyman]

The "hard border" was only deemed legal for virus control, not at the whim of a premier who likes the idea.
Yes, I think S117 should put an end to that one.

In the meantime, Comrade Chairman is looking to extend his Emergency powers, and the Watermelons are right behind him! :suspect:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/victoria-s-state-of-emergency-set-to-be-extended-until-december-20210302-p576zs.html

[Icarus2001]

An update to my figures above.

I calculated around 82,000 vaccinations were required each day to be on target for October. See by maths above.

I just saw on the ABC that their graph showed 198,000 required per day. (It must be true as it was on tv)

I guess they are allowing for TWO shots per person, I only allowed for ONE.

[Dannyboy39]

Yes, I think S117 should put an end to that one.

In the meantime, Comrade Chairman is looking to extend his Emergency powers, and the Watermelons are right behind him! :suspect:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/victoria-s-state-of-emergency-set-to-be-extended-until-december-20210302-p576zs.html
This is insanity looking from afar. In the short term, right; but 9 months??

[Australopithecus]

I imagine that chief health officers are counselling that Covid might be the gift that keeps on giving to neo-potentates everywhere. Already you can read worrisome advice that the pace of mutations might result in a mutant strain able to escape* the vaccines.

*(immunologist term. Means what you think it does)

The Cassandra-like cautions suggest that we may still end up back at square one dealing with this virus. So nine months worth of scope is either crazy cautious or fetchingly innocent. Someone wake me when its over.

[goodonyamate]

https://www.watoday.com.au/politics/western-australia/wa-premier-mark-mcgowan-wants-to-keep-border-controls-beyond-pandemic-20210301-p576r5.html

Its only regarding inspections of freight at the border, which during covid increased and uncovered more drugs than normal.....No need to blow it out of context.

important for Mcclown to support the local meth dealers. Nothing like boosting your homemade supply. Moron.

[dr dre]

I imagine that chief health officers are counselling that Covid might be the gift that keeps on giving to neo-potentates everywhere. Already you can read worrisome advice that the pace of mutations might result in a mutant strain able to escape* the vaccines.

*(immunologist term. Means what you think it does)

The Cassandra-like cautions suggest that we may still end up back at square one dealing with this virus. So nine months worth of scope is either crazy cautious or fetchingly innocent. Someone wake me when its over.

All the scientific commentary I've seen has stated that scientists don't believe current mutations will "escape" the vaccine.

Coronavirus: a single ‘escape mutant’ shouldn’t render a vaccine useless (https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-a-single-escape-mutant-shouldnt-render-a-vaccine-useless-153812#:~:text=On%20a%20more%20reassuring%20note,these%20vac cines%20less%20effective%20overall.)

First vaccine received gets your immune system to create antibodies against SARS-COV-2, which the human body doesn't have unless you've been infected. For next season, probably around the time you usually get a flu vaccine you get a Covid vaccine as well. In time both vaccines may be able to be delivered simultaneously. With mRNA technology we can develop these vaccines targeted towards the expected strains at record speed.

It's actually quite exciting to see how the revolution in medical technology will defeat this pandemic.

[Joker89]

It's actually quite exciting to see how the revolution in medical technology will defeat this pandemic.

yes that deadly Spanish flu really dragged on compared to this one, it also came back again and again, if only modern technology was around to shave a few months off 100 years ago. We have come so far.

[Derfred]

It’s strange, isn’t it Dr Dre.

When I talk to my family, they have a reasonable understanding of the virus, the vaccine, and the repercussions.

When I talk to my neighbours, they have a reasonable understanding of the virus, the vaccine, and the repercussions.

When I go to the shops, or the pub, or a restaurant, they have a reasonable understanding of the virus, the vaccine, and the repercussions.

When I go to work, and talk to my fellow pilots, they have a reasonable understanding of the virus, the vaccine, and the repercussions.

But when I look at PPRuNe, all I see is crap like this:

yes that deadly Spanish flu really dragged on compared to this one, it also came back again and again, if only modern technology was around to shave a few months off 100 years ago. We have come so far.

[Joker89]

Haha, if you truly believe this pandemic has been controlled by governments and modern medical science that’s a matter for you. Dan Andrew’s thanks you for your vote.

[601]

But when I look at PPRuNe, all I see is crap like this:
And in certain sections of the media.

[LoganShawn17]

I understand people,who vote for borders to be open. But if you are a freelancer working with employee monitoring software installed, you can work even at home. I'm talking about IT now

[IWannaFly2020]

Seems Howard Springs is the solution. 2000 people a fortnight. How is QF going to have enough planes and crews to do it??

[On eyre]

Seems Howard Springs is the solution. 2000 people a fortnight. How is QF going to have enough planes and crews to do it??

The Alliance jungle jet shuttle 😜

[Global Aviator]

2000 people a fortnight is good news, so does it mean it ramps up to a rolling 2000 people in the facility? 172 in at a time on the 787. Great news for the domestic airlines as most also need a domestic flight on release.

International travel ain’t gunna open up until no quarantine on arrival, can’t see it happening this year.

To the original topic... ALL DOMESTIC BORDERS SHOULD BE OPEN NOW AND STAY OPEN.

[Transition Layer]

When Australia can safely resume international travel, according to epidemiologist (https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-vaccination-level-needed-before-international-travel-can-resume-epidemiologist-dr-tony-blakely/52f9bb09-b776-4ec4-ad57-407db43b3305)

[Icarus2001]

International travel ain’t gunna open up until no quarantine on arrival, can’t see it happening this year. That seems to be a reasonable assessment.

New Zealand is an obvious starting point, almost there now.

Bali bubble? Fiji bubble?

[SHVC]

I think Bali will be one of the last places on earth that Oz open up to.

[Icarus2001]

I think Bali will be one of the last places on earth that Oz open up to. Why? The Island can easily be controlled, in fact the local authority there is talking about a bubble around the resort area of the island.

I would think the US, India and Brazil are probably more risk.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Surely one criteria for international destinations to open as "bubbles" is direct flights, no transit. So the Perth to London flight would be great except the UK is awash with Covd19.

[601]

Why? The Island can easily be controlled, in fact the local authority there is talking about a bubble around the resort area of the island.

Sorry. I spilt my rum and coke.

[Dannyboy39]

Why? The Island can easily be controlled, in fact the local authority there is talking about a bubble around the resort area of the island.

I would think the US, India and Brazil are probably more risk.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Surely one criteria for international destinations to open as "bubbles" is direct flights, no transit. So the Perth to London flight would be great except the UK is awash with Covd19.
Awash? The numbers are well down. A million tests done on a day last week and around 0.5-1% of tests coming back positive. Some way to go, but by late spring we will be back in a much better place.

[Derfred]

Danny, that is still “awash” by Aus standards...

[Global Aviator]

Why? The Island can easily be controlled, in fact the local authority there is talking about a bubble around the resort area of the island.


I love that thinking and it makes perfect sense. It is however still Indonesia with the inherent problems attached. It would be fantastic if places like this could find a way.

Alas until Straya can get its own ****e together and keep all interstate borders open, ZERO CHANCE. Oooohhhh 3 cases in Kuta, righto all Aussies that were in Kuta you now have XYZ requirements on top of ABCDEFGH requirements that you already had prior to leaving.......... Just like being on a flight to Darwin from Melbourne when mid-flight it was decided you left a hot spot.

I just can't see international travel until there is no requirement for quarantine on return. For holiday makers until that time it is a holiday plus 14 days and $2500+.

Open all domestic borders, keep them open with confidence and pump the hell out of domestic tourism and keep fingers crossed for New Zealand for winter, otherwise its the Southern Alps for the snow.

[Icarus2001]

Awash? The numbers are well down. A million tests done on a day last week and around 0.5-1% of tests coming back positive. Some way to go, but by late spring we will be back in a much better place.

UK: 4700 new cases this week, 65 deaths this week. Total deaths 125,000
Australia: 100 cases, 0 deaths this week. Total deaths 909.

Population UK: 66.6 million
Population Australia: 25.4 million

66.6/25.4 = 2.6

Yes, I would call that awash despite the "numbers are well down".

[Transition Layer]

UK: 4700 new cases this week, 65 deaths this week. Total deaths 125,000
Australia: 100 cases, 0 deaths this week. Total deaths 909.

Population UK: 66.6 million
Population Australia: 25.4 million

66.6/25.4 = 2.6

Yes, I would call that awash despite the "numbers are well down".

The UK is well and truly trending in the right direction though.

It’s time to look forward and find a way out, and cut out this sort of alarmist language like “awash”. The media have cultivated this type of fear throughout this pandemic unfortunately.

[Icarus2001]

The UK is well and truly trending in the right direction though.
I agree with you. In the context of my comment about travel bubbles, they are awash compared to many, many other states.

[Dannyboy39]

The last surveillance data last week came back roughly to 1 in 250 having the virus. Meaning that 249 in 250 do not have it. Trending in the right direction for sure but not there yet.

But we have a vaccine in the arms of a third of the population which has high efficacy after one shot of almost eliminating severe disease and significantly reduces transmission.

[Dannyboy39]

I agree with you. In the context of my comment about travel bubbles, they are awash compared to many, many other states.
No one is doing the level of testing of the UK. Nor anywhere near the amount of genomic sequencing. Testing has actually reduced in the USA or never been in the same league in many western states.

[ruprecht]

With all the coverage of Harry and Meghan, I thought covid was over.

[LapSap]

With all the coverage of Harry and Meghan, I thought covid was over.

Agree. Who would have thought ‘B grade American actress marries all round good guy with castle and hates MIL’ would take up the first 10 mins of the news last night....
I know, the right thread is over on JB.......

why is the US still so inept with dealing with this? Totally dysfunctional public health system? Complete lack of personal discipline due to whatever Amendment they want to quote?? Or just their utter insularity in all things global??

[layman]

Quarantine for international arrivals.

A friend of a friend of a friend (it is a rumour network) heard that DFAT are working on quarantine possibly being required for a further 18 months to 2 years.

Hopefully not (& needs to be verified) but something to keep in mind

[Dannyboy39]

Quarantine for international arrivals.

A friend of a friend of a friend (it is a rumour network) heard that DFAT are working on quarantine possibly being required for a further 18 months to 2 years.

Hopefully not (& needs to be verified) but something to keep in mind
It is clearly a very popular policy. Why not keep it going forever? Keeps out all ailments and everyone in Oz can spend their hard earned in Oz. What's not to like?!

[dr dre]

Quarantine for international arrivals.

A friend of a friend of a friend (it is a rumour network) heard that DFAT are working on quarantine possibly being required for a further 18 months to 2 years.

Hopefully not (& needs to be verified) but something to keep in mind

I think most would assume the current level of quarantine to the last quarter of this year. After that there may be loosening of restrictions in a phased return to a pre Covid norm, it may involve travel bubbles, it may involve home quarantine, it may involve quarantine only from certain countries with high infection rates. Whatever will happen will probably happen in gradual phases. DFAT also may want to keep the quarantine structure on standby in case there’s a significant outbreak somewhere in the next two years.

So yeah, I’d say DFAT having at least a quarantine framework as a backup for up to two years is something they’d consider. Doesn’t necessarily mean it will be two more years of the international border being closed exactly as it is today.

[LapSap]

It is clearly a very popular policy. Why not keep it going forever? Keeps out all ailments and everyone in Oz can spend their hard earned in Oz. What's not to like?!

I hope you’re being sarcastic...
Sorry if I’m a bit thick at the moment.
Some of us actually had international careers ended by this virus. (Not just flying). Why would you wish that for ever?

[Icarus2001]

I think the NSW premier is spot on with what she says here. That is how I feel anyway.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6238116721001

[Dannyboy39]

I hope you’re being sarcastic...
Sorry if I’m a bit thick at the moment.
Some of us actually had international careers ended by this virus. (Not just flying). Why would you wish that for ever?
Of course I’m not. Australian money for Australian people only. Tourist attractions, sporting events, jobs and universities should only be for the locals. Of course we can let in rich people, movie, sports and pop stars - they actually contribute unlike the little people.

It’s the year 2035 and WA has just entered its 24th lockdown having kept cases down to just 46 since the pandemic started. The locals are lauding it up, but the Goose is confident that the big 25 foot high wall that is along the domestic border will be able to come down eventually as cases globally completely diminish. Qantas have dumped all of their A380s as the route from Brisbane to Cairns struggled to make any money for them.

I believe this is a very interesting time and an amazing opportunity for Australia to concentrate purely on its own people to provide the business/ tourism etc. I am actually hoping that Australia becomes less reliant on international people and more reliant on its own people. I'm glad there's a drain in certain professions and industries....let's fill it with Aussies. I'm glad there's a shortfall in tourism...let's promote Aussies to fill the void...etc etc. This is a self-sufficient country so let's take advantage of it

[BA_Baracas]

I believe this is a very interesting time and an amazing opportunity for Australia to concentrate purely on its own people to provide the business/ tourism etc. I am actually hoping that Australia becomes less reliant on international people and more reliant on its own people. I'm glad there's a drain in certain professions and industries....let's fill it with Aussies. I'm glad there's a shortfall in tourism...let's promote Aussies to fill the void...etc etc. This is a self-sufficient country so let's take advantage of it


👍
For the foreseeable future, that looks the only option...

[Asturias56]

"This is a self-sufficient country so let's take advantage of it"

But its not is it (2018 numbers) - cars, computers, oil, aircraft......................#1 Machinery (AUD$46.2 billion)Representing about 14% of Australian imports, machinery formed Australia’s largest import in 2018. The level of machinery imports has consistently been high, also representing $47.2 billion worth of Australia’s imports in 2016. This is not surprising given the investment in infrastructure and construction around Australia. Australians import everything ranging from computers and generators to centrifugal pumps, which are essentially ‘capital’ goods that help Australians make other goods.
#2 Oil (AUD$43.9 billion)Mineral fuels represent around 13.3% of Australian imports, and this rapidly grew by around 33% from 2017 to 2018. Australia imports mainly all its oil and is on the path to becoming 100% reliant on imports for petroleum in 2030. Just over half of Australia’s imported refined petrol is imported from refineries in Singapore, followed by refineries in South Korea and Japan.
#3 Vehicles (AUD$43.6 billion)Vehicles account for over 13% of Australia’s imports. In 2018, this included the importation of cars, trucks, automobile parts, tractors, trailers and more. Cars alone accounted for $24.3 billion in imports. The importation of specialised vehicles grew significantly. Imports of special purpose vehicles grew by up to 97% from 2017, whilst the imports of armoured vehicles and tanks escalated by over 16%.
#4 Electrical machinery and equipment (AUD$37.1 billion)Australians love using electrical equipment – so it contributed around 11.3% of Australia’s imports in 2018. By far, the number one electrical piece of equipment forming the bulk of Australian imports were mobile phones, including smartphones. This alone accounted for about AUD$12.3 billion in Australian imports. The import of solar power products also increased significantly by 62% compared to 2017, as did electric generating sets and converters which increased by just over 52%.
#5 Medical/technical equipment (AUD$12 billion)Optical, technical and medical equipment account for around 3.7% of Australian imports. This includes goods like electro-medical equipment such as x-rays and blood fractions.
#6 Pharmaceuticals (AUD$11.8 billion)Pharmaceuticals account for about 3.6% of Australian imports. The importation of items such as medicines and medical devices is heavily regulated, and many pharmaceuticals are prohibited from entering into Australian borders by the Department of Health and Australian Border Force.
#7 Gems and precious metals (AUD$9.5 billion)Representing around 2.9% of Australian imports, gems and precious stones are at #7 on the list. Australians love their jewellery and this plays a critically important role in international trade. Diamonds alone generated about AUD$624 million in value whilst jewellery altogether formed about AUD$1.4 billion in import value.

#8 Plastics and plastic articles ($AUD9.2 billion)

Plastic is a large international business, and it accounted for about 2.8% of Australian imports in 2018.

#9 Iron or steel articles (AUD$7.2 billion)

Coming in at number nine are iron and steel articles, accounting for around 2.2 per cent of Australian imports in 2018. This was a significant increase from the previous year.

#10 Furniture, bedding and lighting (AUD$6.9 billion)

Last but not least, Australians continue to invest in home furnishings, explaining why the importation of furniture, bedding and lighting accounted for 2.1% of all imports.

[WingNut60]

#1 Machinery (AUD$46.2 billion)Representing about 14% of Australian imports, machinery formed Australia’s largest import in 2018..........................

And if your entire fleet of 797's is leased out of Aruba? Is that counted as an import?
And if not, why not and what is it then if not an import?

[Icarus2001]

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=45e00fd2-1a7b-442d-a6b5-4c91944cdf89

https://www.abf.gov.au/importing-exporting-and-manufacturing/importing/how-to-import/types-of-imports/importing-aircraft

The internet is amazing.

[WingNut60]

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=45e00fd2-1a7b-442d-a6b5-4c91944cdf89

https://www.abf.gov.au/importing-exporting-and-manufacturing/importing/how-to-import/types-of-imports/importing-aircraft

The internet is amazing.
Some lengthy reading in that lot but I'm not sure that it answers my question(s).

I understand about registration and payment of duty.
But I have not yet come across anything that clarifies or categorises subsequent leasing payments.

If you are going to send the value of an aircraft out of country every, say, five years for the life of the aircraft then does that fall into the "value of imports" basket or not?

Maybe I just need to read it all again.

[blubak]

I think the NSW premier is spot on with what she says here. That is how I feel anyway.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6238116721001
She is very knowledgeable in her thinking & assessment of where we are unlike Queen P who is now telling us how qld is the place to holiday,shows again how out of touch she is.
Her fabulous holiday destinations will remain virtual ghost towns for a very long time due to her continual gloating in the media during the height of the pandemic,many people i have spoken to say they will never spend a $ in qld again & she hasnt got the message yet about the damage she has done.

[Foxxster]

She is very knowledgeable in her thinking & assessment of where we are unlike Queen P who is now telling us how qld is the place to holiday,shows again how out of touch she is.
Her fabulous holiday destinations will remain virtual ghost towns for a very long time due to her continual gloating in the media during the height of the pandemic,many people i have spoken to say they will never spend a $ in qld again & she hasnt got the message yet about the damage she has done.

apart from the resentment towards her and her utter buffoon deputy, I think the main issue for Qld and WA is the very very real possibility of yet another snap border closure. Same probably for Victoria. And this will endure until the vast majority of people have been vaccinated. At which point hopefully the respective premiers might take a more sensible approach to any new cases. And that won’t be until at least August or September.

[Buster Hyman]

She is very knowledgeable in her thinking & assessment of where we are unlike Queen P who is now telling us how qld is the place to holiday,shows again how out of touch she is.
Her fabulous holiday destinations will remain virtual ghost towns for a very long time due to her continual gloating in the media during the height of the pandemic,many people i have spoken to say they will never spend a $ in qld again & she hasnt got the message yet about the damage she has done.
Eventually, I probably will go back to QLD or WA for a holiday, but not for a very long time.:suspect:

[Derfred]

You aren’t welcome in Queensland, Buster.

Queensland resorts are for Queenslanders.

[blubak]

You aren’t welcome in Queensland, Buster.

Queensland resorts are for Queenslanders.
Might be the only people in qld soon,1 new case in a brissy hospital,full lockdown coming???

[Keg]

Is now the time to slam the NSW border shut and start making panicky and juvenile statements about how appalling QLD systems are? That seems to be the way QLD has been working the last 12 months!

[Mach E Avelli]

W.A.wetting themselves again. Where most of the world considers a 14 day incubation period adequate, these guys have decided on 28. My daughter was in MEL for a few hours between connecting flights two weeks ago. Apparently at about that time one case was traced to MEL airport, so anyone who spent any time there and arriving in PER since is now a suspect and must self isolate, depending on how long they were in transit. If no more cases, they will be let loose some time next week but they have been warned that if any more cases pop up from that source they will probably have to do another 14 days.
Meantime those of us who spent time with her have no restrictions. Where is the science behind this?

[dr dre]

Might be the only people in qld soon,1 new case in a brissy hospital,full lockdown coming???

No. Looks like the infected doctor had limited community exposure.

Probably should look at stepping up the rollout to all 1A/1B workers ASAP, as it seems not all healthcare staff at that hospital who had contact with the patient had been in 1A (or had chosen to not take the vaccine). Latest change of plans is that the rollout end date of October is now apparently for the first AZ dose, second dose and full immunity to be done by December. At this stage.

[zanthrus]

Mach E Avelli. I fly to Melbourne and back to Perth twice each week. Last year I was in lockdown continuously for 3 months at home thanks to our idiot leader McClown and his WAPOL Nazis. Every 3 days my new WA entry started my 14 days over again. Never got COVID and I likely never will. Never doing self isolation again! Not using WA Safe or Vic Safe or any other Nazi tracking apps. I refuse to comply with any more of this madness. Our Nazi Governments can all get stuffed!

[SHVC]

He is your elected leader, enjoy the next 4yrs of his rash decisions, the worst part is LNP will be wiped out so he will have free rain on anything unchallenged.

[Dannyboy39]

Mach E Avelli. I fly to Melbourne and back to Perth twice each week. Last year I was in lockdown continuously for 3 months at home thanks to our idiot leader McClown and his WAPOL Nazis. Every 3 days my new WA entry started my 14 days over again. Never got COVID and I likely never will. Never doing self isolation again! Not using WA Safe or Vic Safe or any other Nazi tracking apps. I refuse to comply with any more of this madness. Our Nazi Governments can all get stuffed!
And the vaccine isn’t a race apparently? It sounds like they enjoy locking people down for one case.

[Keg]

At least WA seems to be doing well on the vaccine rollout (https://covidlive.com.au/).

[Buster Hyman]

You aren’t welcome in Queensland, Buster.

Queensland resorts are for Queenslanders.
LOL! You're right. I've already lived through the 80's so no need to see it again.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Well, it does appear that 'The Tribe Has Spoken'.......

As at 8:15PM WST., in the WA State Elections, Mark 'Shut The Gate' McGowan, has 46 seats....and the Libs have 2......

TOTAL Control...by the one party.

[SOPS]

Well, it does appear that 'The Tribe Has Spoken'.......

As at 8:15PM WST., in the WA State Elections, Mark 'Shut The Gate' McGowan, has 46 seats....and the Libs have 2......

TOTAL Control...by the one party.
It seems we are happy here in WA.

[SHVC]

WA people have voted its crazy how this pandemic makes people think. The real questions is, what did they even vote for? Do they even know why they voted for him? What has McGowen actually done other than close up shop at a sniff of COVID. His whole time in office is made on closing his border not dealing with the problem. I would go as far as even saying Queen P is better at this guy at dealing with the pandemic.

Let’s say Corona virus doesn’t exist, What has he done in his time?

[thorn bird]

"TOTAL Control...by the one party."
In reality total control by one person, who's first priority will be to gerrymander himself as emperor for life.

Thereafter let the corruption begin, lucky bugger is going to end up a very wealthy man.

[Ladloy]

"TOTAL Control...by the one party."
In reality total control by one person, who's first priority will be to gerrymander himself as emperor for life.

Thereafter let the corruption begin, lucky bugger is going to end up a very wealthy man.
The federal Liberal Party is corrupt to the core, maybe he is just taking leaf from their book.

[blubak]

The federal Liberal Party is corrupt to the core, maybe he is just taking leaf from their book.
Libs were never going to win but why wasnt scomo over there working his ass off trying to at least get some votes for his party instead of embarassing himself at a photo shoot with his 2 thumbs up salute looking like a complete d...head alongside all the other smiling assasains

[SRFred]

Perhaps because he thought his Jobkeeper/Jobseeker handouts would help the Libs. In fact I suspect Labor benefited from them and had they not existed MeGowan might have had to act differently with his "lock downs".

[Ladloy]

Perhaps because he thought his Jobkeeper/Jobseeker handouts would help the Libs. In fact I suspect Labor benefited from them and had they not existed MeGowan might have had to act differently with his "lock downs".
I'd say WA probably had the least amount of businesses on the jobkeeper program.

[WingNut60]

It's amusing to read the rant from the east when it's patently obvious that you are all so intently focused on yourselves that you can't see anything other than "the West are idiots".

There is no doubt that Covid played a large part in the Labor win.
But that isn't what drove the size of the swing and certainly not the massive swing in the usually gold-label Liberal seats.

Ask yourselves, if you can, WHY ScoMo wouldn't touch this election with a barge pole.
Or WHY the usually far-right, steely-eyed, business leaders were running promotions for McGowan.

It certainly had nothing to do with restoring over-priced flights to your Meccas of the East.
And it had very little (I'd say nothing) to do with Covid or lock-downs.

I'll give you a bit of time to take off your ****e-coloured glasses and see if you can work it out.
Hint! You won't find your answers on the Channel 9 breakfast show and not from down at the leagues club either.

[blubak]

I see there is a new case in NSW,it is a person who works in 2 quarantine hotels.
I didnt think working in 2 different workplaces was allowed if you were employed in hotel quarantine?
It will be interesting to see what this results in,if it was in vic all the ministers,dept heads etc would be hung out to dry already with comments such as Incompetent etc etc however i am not in any way defending how it was run here last year.
The nsw govt have done a great job but this case just shows that no matter how good a system is,its not foolproof.
Hopefully its contained really quickly & doesnt result in more lockdowns etc.

[dr dre]

The real questions is, what did they even vote for? Do they even know why they voted for him? What did they vote for? Well I guess they didn’t vote for the WA Liberal party. A party which at the start of the pandemic wanted borders shut, then wanted borders open and aligned themselves with Clive Palmer, then a few months later wanted an even harder border with less exemptions for aircrew (https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/liberals-take-aim-over-thousands-exempt-from-wa-s-14-day-isolation-rules-20200812-p55kyi.html), then finally were happy with McGowan’s policy. Maybe showing a bit of consistency during a health crisis would be appreciated by the public.

I would think the very poor choice of leaders, Liza Harvey, a nobody, and Zak Kirkup the work experience kid harmed them too. Not to mention the party’s preselection disasters which led them to nominate candidates like 5G truthers (https://amp.smh.com.au/national/wa-liberal-candidate-quits-over-blog-post-linking-covid-19-to-5g-towers-20210128-p56xcb.html) and Trump supporting conspiracy nuts (https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/liberal-candidate-for-jandakot-under-fire-over-religious-views-20210306-p578dx.html). It’s going to be tough for the party to recover in the state with no talent and they won’t even be the official opposition. Despite the usual “fought on state issues” talk the Federal Libs would be in fear I reckon.


"TOTAL Control...by the one party."
In reality total control by one person, who's first priority will be to gerrymander himself as emperor for life.


Nope, good thing about Australia is our electoral boundaries are set by an independent Electoral Commission, as opposed to the US where politicians can gerrymander themselves to permanent wins.

[neville_nobody]

It's amusing to read the rant from the east when it's patently obvious that you are all so intently focused on yourselves that you can't see anything other than "the West are idiots".


It is not like that at all. The East Coast realise they are part of a whole nation and we all rely on each other to keep the country working. Ultimately State Borders are only administrative however in WA it seems they believe it's a border to another country.

Anyway the party is going to end pretty quickly in WA when they run out of workers to actually do anything from cooking a steak, to engineering a road or a building. Always has been a Boom/Bust economy that has relied on staff from overseas and interstate. If it's too hard to actually get there and work then noone is going to do it. McGowan has painted himself into a policy corner. Do you either change your border policy that got you elected and look like a hypocrite or do you keep your border policy and blowup your economy??

[WingNut60]

Nope, good thing about Australia is our electoral boundaries are set by an independent Electoral Commission, as opposed to the US where politicians can gerrymander themselves to permanent wins.

The predominant gerrymander in WA is the electorates for the upper house - tilted so heavily in favour of conservative parties that Labor has not had a majority in the upper house for 50 years or more.
But to change it, of course, you need a majority in the upper house.

So every Liberal-CP government for 50 years has had both houses and that is deemed to be perfectly OK, no problem at all.
But the prospect of a Labor government holding both houses is touted as being a disaster in the making, calamity will befall us, the sky is falling, the sky is falling.
What a bunch of hypocrits.

As for the lower house, while I am sure McGowan is felling very self-satisfied, smug even.
50 : 9 is not really much different than 30 : 29 - it's still just a simple majority.
And anything passed by the lower house still has to get past the "Farmers' House" across the other side of the corridor.

[WingNut60]

It is not like that at all. The East Coast realise they are part of a whole nation and we all rely on each other to keep the country working. Ultimately State Borders are only administrative however in WA it seems they believe it's a border to another country.

Anyway the party is going to end pretty quickly in WA when they run out of workers to actually do anything from cooking a steak, to engineering a road or a building. Always has been a Boom/Bust economy that has relied on staff from overseas and interstate. If it's too hard to actually get there and work then noone is going to do it. McGowan has painted himself into a policy corner. Do you either change your border policy that got you elected and look like a hypocrite or do you keep your border policy and blowup your economy??

Any jurisdiction that relies heavily on resources is always going to be at the mercy of the international resources markets and global fluctuation in trade. But what we're talking about there resembles Australia as a whole as much as it resembles just WA.
If you don't have a manufacturing sector to speak off then that's always going to happen.
In my lifetime I can not remember a downturn in the WA economy that was not associated with an equivalent downturn in the Australian economy and, more generally, a downturn in the western world economies.

As for availability of labour, you can hardly blame McGowan because ScoMo has the international borders closed.
And I think your assessment of our reliance on inter-state labour is grossly inflated.

And finally, I'm left wondering how many trips Cuddly Clive has made to WA since the border has been open.
Maybe he didn't really need to come at all.

I see that no one has taken a stab at my question in Link 3959 yet.

[Transition Layer]

It's amusing to read the rant from the east when it's patently obvious that you are all so intently focused on yourselves that you can't see anything other than "the West are idiots".

There is no doubt that Covid played a large part in the Labor win.
But that isn't what drove the size of the swing and certainly not the massive swing in the usually gold-label Liberal seats.

Ask yourselves, if you can, WHY ScoMo wouldn't touch this election with a barge pole.
Or WHY the usually far-right, steely-eyed, business leaders were running promotions for McGowan.

It certainly had nothing to do with restoring over-priced flights to your Meccas of the East.
And it had very little (I'd say nothing) to do with Covid or lock-downs.

I'll give you a bit of time to take off your ****e-coloured glasses and see if you can work it out.
Hint! You won't find your answers on the Channel 9 breakfast show and not from down at the leagues club either.

I don’t know the answer, and I’ve had a think about it. But what I do know is that the traditional life long Liberal voters I spoke to who were all praising McGowan, were simply voting Labor this time because “he’s done a great job during COVID and kept us safe”. I didn’t hear a single reason other than that. These are small business owners, retirees and mostly high income earners. I would say that’s where the ~13% swing has come from.

McGowan revved up the parochialism perfectly during COVID, and doubled down recently with ad campaigns promising to keep FIFO jobs away from the filthy interstate people. Very clever politics, no doubt. Even more impressive and hilarious is that he’s from NSW :p

[WingNut60]

I don’t know the answer, and I’ve had a think about it. But what I do know is that the traditional life long Liberal voters I spoke to who were all praising McGowan, were simply voting Labor this time because “he’s done a great job during COVID and kept us safe”. I didn’t hear a single reason other than that. These are small business owners, retirees and mostly high income earners. I would say that’s where the ~13% swing has come from.

McGowan revved up the parochialism perfectly during COVID, and doubled down recently with ad campaigns promising to keep FIFO jobs away from the filthy interstate people. Very clever politics, no doubt. Even more impressive and hilarious is that he’s from NSW :p
I'll give you three hints - Goiran, Collier & religious fanatacism.

The push against inter-state FiFo's is being driven by the mining companies. They much prefer FiFo's over mining towns full of families.
FiFo's are much easier to sack.
But they're much cheaper if you can just get them from Perth (or Busselton).

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

A320's, 168 seats, twice a week into YBLN these days.....

KA-CHING go the Council coffers....at last..!!

[brokenagain]

It’s all elementary. Now that McGowan has won the election, watch the hardline approach to border closures soften, as they did for PalaceChook and Gunner after they won their respective elections. If anyone thinks the measures were primarily based on health outcomes and not political ones, they’re kidding themselves.

[WingNut60]

It’s all elementary. Now that McGowan has won the election, watch the hardline approach to border closures soften, as they did for PalaceChook and Gunner after they won their respective elections. If anyone thinks the measures were primarily based on health outcomes and not political ones, they’re kidding themselves.
Possibly, though currently being quoted as saying that "he will not hesitate to put the hard border back up", in reference to current Qld and NSW cases.

I'd have thought that there will be a softening anyway as target vaccination goals are achieved. October, maybe?

[De_flieger]

WA people have voted its crazy how this pandemic makes people think. The real questions is, what did they even vote for? Do they even know why they voted for him? What has McGowen actually done other than close up shop at a sniff of COVID. His whole time in office is made on closing his border not dealing with the problem. I would go as far as even saying Queen P is better at this guy at dealing with the pandemic.

Let’s say Corona virus doesn’t exist, What has he done in his time?
Delivered a budget surplus in 2019/2020 (ie pre-covid) and again in 2020/2021? That's generally seen as a pretty good thing. High employment. Hasn't spent time fighting pointless culture wars and defending alleged rapists - admittedly lately that's more a Federal Liberal thing, but it probably explains why Zac Kirkup hasn't seemed that keen for help from the Federal side lately, especially after the Feds briefly supported Clive Palmer's court challenges to force open the WA borders.

On the other hand, the local Liberals, having conceded the election a couple of weeks out, went to the polls arguing they should be supported locally with local candidates to prevent Labor having too much power, then put forward a bunch of religious nutters who have previously and publicly opposed gay marriage as being against god's wishes, and then refused to let those candidates answer questions when the media asked if they still held those views, among other counter-productive decisions.

If you want to get into really local issues, at my local polling booth yesterday, mid-morning, so with plenty of time still to vote, Labor and the Greens both had their volunteers handing out cards and talking to people. In contrast the Liberals had a pile of how-to-vote cards sitting on a table with a water bottle stopping them blowing away in the breeze, and no-one in sight. Even their own volunteers had given up!

[Transition Layer]

It’s all elementary. Now that McGowan has won the election, watch the hardline approach to border closures soften, as they did for PalaceChook and Gunner after they won their respective elections. If anyone thinks the measures were primarily based on health outcomes and not political ones, they’re kidding themselves.
It’s already happened. Only applying quarantine to those from NSW hotspots, not the entire state.

Counting hasn’t even finished in the election and the rhetoric has changed. You couldn’t make this **** up.

[SHVC]

Yes, if this were two weeks ago hard border would of been raised over 1 case. ppl landing from NSW or QLD just being told they have to go into hotel gaol. McGowen is definitely a goose.

[neville_nobody]

Looks like the voters of WA have been duped.

[WingNut60]

Looks like the voters of WA have been duped.
Still wearing those ****e-coloured glasses I see.

[SOPS]

I don’t get it. The ‘ security guard’ that has sparked the latest out break in NSW was working a 2 different hotels, PLUS he has a full time office job. I thought this stuff had been stopped, and they were only allowed one job. Or have I missed something ??

[WingNut60]

I don’t get it. The ‘ security guard’ that has sparked the latest out break in NSW was working a 2 different hotels, PLUS he has a full time office job. I thought this stuff had been stopped, and they were only allowed one job. Or have I missed something ??
Pleeeeeeeeeeeease. Questioning of NSW ist verboten.
Just move along. Nothing to be seen here.

[blubak]

I don’t get it. The ‘ security guard’ that has sparked the latest out break in NSW was working a 2 different hotels, PLUS he has a full time office job. I thought this stuff had been stopped, and they were only allowed one job. Or have I missed something ??
I asked the same thing yesterday(post 3960).
I didnt think they could work at more then 1 workplace?
No government can monitor their workers 24 hours a day but if the rules have been broken by this guy an explanation is needed,not an excuse!
The people working in these hotels need to take responsibility for their actions,hopefully this doesnt turn into something we dont need or want right now.

[cloudsurfng]

I don’t get it. The ‘ security guard’ that has sparked the latest out break in NSW was working a 2 different hotels, PLUS he has a full time office job. I thought this stuff had been stopped, and they were only allowed one job. Or have I missed something ??

"outbreak"? Its ONE case so far. Hardly an outbreak. Your description has just shown what brainwashing will do. The multiple jobs thing is bull****. Should not be allowed. Yes, the west are stupid. So are the North, South, East and middle. If there's one thing this **** has shown me, it is what a bunch of dumbasses Australians really are. 'Baaaaaaaaaa'. F*&king morons.

[jrfsp]

It seems to have gone unnoticed here, but as of today, all borders are open unrestricted across the country.

Lets see how long it lasts...

[Chronic Snoozer]

It seems to have gone unnoticed here, but as of today, all borders are open unrestricted across the country.

Lets see how long it lasts...

A day after the WA election. How ironic. Now the WA CHO is talking to the media about 'hotspots' all of a sudden.

WA Chief Health Officer (https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/travellers-from-nsw-to-perth-must-get-covid-19-test-quarantine-wa-health-advises-20210314-p57anb.html)

But despite this: Federally controlled travel bubble with NZ (https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/new-zealand-safe-travel-zone)

WA does this: The travel bubble between Australia and New Zealand is managed by the Commonwealth Government, and Western Australia is not included in this travel bubble. (https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/department-of-the-premier-and-cabinet/covid-19-coronavirus-travel-wa)

[layman]

“Outbreak of one case”

Italy went from 1 case to 170,000 in 6 weeks; New York from 12 to 200,000 in less than 7 weeks.

We’re better prepared now but it can very quickly get away from us.

Probably not quite to our standard of medical care but, at the beginning of this year, Sri Lanka went from <10/day to nearly 1,000/day in a matter of weeks.

[1A_Please]

“Outbreak of one case”

Italy went from 1 case to 170,000 in 6 weeks; New York from 12 to 200,000 in less than 7 weeks.

We’re better prepared now but it can very quickly get away from us.

Probably not quite to our standard of medical care but, at the beginning of this year, Sri Lanka went from <10/day to nearly 1,000/day in a matter of weeks.
If we are not able to handle a small outbreak now without resorting to a full lockdown, the responsible state government should resign. Massive amounts have been spent on contact-tracing protocols that use a 3 ring approach to quarantine any potential outbreak. State Governments need to accept that a small outbreak does not constitute failure; it is reality. Even Victoria should be able to handle an outbreak of 30 to 50 cases now without panic and lockdown.

[krismiler]

Discussion is going on about a travel bubble with Singapore by July.

https://simpleflying.com/australia-singapore-travel-bubble/

Thailand is looking at no quarantine for vaccinated travellers around the same time.

The door may be slowly starting to crack open,

[ScepticalOptomist]

If we are not able to handle a small outbreak now without resorting to a full lockdown, the responsible state government should resign. Massive amounts have been spent on contact-tracing protocols that use a 3 ring approach to quarantine any potential outbreak. State Governments need to accept that a small outbreak does not constitute failure; it is reality. Even Victoria should be able to handle an outbreak of 30 to 50 cases now without panic and lockdown.

Exactly right!

[KRviator]

Blood clots found in 37 people out of 17 million recipients of AstraZeneca vaccine
A British virologist says international concerns about the AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine causing blood clots must be put in perspective.

Associate professor Sterghios Moschos says 17 million people have received the AstraZeneca jab so far and blood clots have been found in just 37 recipients.

10 European nations have now suspended the AstraZeneca rollout, over Norwegian concerns about blood clots. Source (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-16/covid-19-latest-coronavirus-live-updates-australia-vaccine-png/13250634#:~:text=Blood%20clots%20found)I'm curious...

If 1 or 2 cases in NSW/Vic/SA is enough for WA to reintroduce their hard border what will be a sufficient number of cases for WA to halt the AZ vaccine rollout due to possible adverse side effects?
After all, 1 case in NSW is 1:8,500,000 people. Even two cases is 1:4,250,000. Call it 10 cases and that's definitely grounds for closing the WA border innit? So that's 1:850,000.

However blood clots have been reported in 37 people from 17,000,000 vaccinated. That's 1:460,000.

Reckon the WA CHO will "act with an abundance of caution" and call a stop to the AZ vaccine rollout? After, it needs to be seen in perspective. Can't go risking the health of their state from a couple of cases in a state of over 8 million, but potentially fatal clotting issues with a risk an order of magnitude higher?? No wuckka's mate!

[WingNut60]

I'm curious...

If 1 or 2 cases in NSW/Vic/SA is enough for WA to reintroduce their hard border what will be a sufficient number of cases for WA to halt the AZ vaccine rollout due to possible adverse side effects?
After all, 1 case in NSW is 1:8,500,000 people. Even two cases is 1:4,250,000. Call it 10 cases and that's definitely grounds for closing the WA border innit? So that's 1:850,000.

However blood clots have been reported in 37 people from 17,000,000 vaccinated. That's 1:460,000.

Reckon the WA CHO will "act with an abundance of caution" and call a stop to the AZ vaccine rollout? After, it needs to be seen in perspective. Can't go risking the health of their state from a couple of cases in a state of over 8 million, but potentially fatal clotting issues with a risk an order of magnitude higher?? No wuckka's mate!
Nebulous? Tenuous? One of the above.

[Buster Hyman]

I'm curious...

If 1 or 2 cases in NSW/Vic/SA is enough for WA to reintroduce their hard border what will be a sufficient number of cases for WA to halt the AZ vaccine rollout due to possible adverse side effects?
After all, 1 case in NSW is 1:8,500,000 people. Even two cases is 1:4,250,000. Call it 10 cases and that's definitely grounds for closing the WA border innit? So that's 1:850,000.

However blood clots have been reported in 37 people from 17,000,000 vaccinated. That's 1:460,000.

Reckon the WA CHO will "act with an abundance of caution" and call a stop to the AZ vaccine rollout? After, it needs to be seen in perspective. Can't go risking the health of their state from a couple of cases in a state of over 8 million, but potentially fatal clotting issues with a risk an order of magnitude higher?? No wuckka's mate!
I think you need to draw up two sets of numbers here. One for pre-election, and one for post-election.

On a side note, does this mean that the EU will let us have our shipment of AZ now? :suspect:

[Dannyboy39]

What hasn’t been said is that these countries are seemingly ignoring real world data from a country that has more experience with the vaccine than them (UK), who found that the prevalence of these clotting findings are actually less in the vaccinated population. There are also events associated with the Pfizer vaccine which seems to have been completely ignored.

The whole world seems to have got themselves into a position that no one gets sick naturally.

By stopping the rollout, they are causing unnecessary deaths.

[Hasherucf]

Italy went from 1 case to 170,000 in 6 weeks; New York from 12 to 200,000 in less than 7 weeks.



Mistakes were made in early days. In NY Gov Cuomo put Covid patients in nursing homes, we wouldn't do that now.

Both are high density populations and Italy has a social structures that has multi generations under the same roof.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

RE ' The whole world seems to have got themselves into a position that no one gets sick naturally...'

I can honestly say that ...'I used to eat a lot of 'natural foods' , until I found that most people die of 'natural causes'.....

Cheersss.... if you survive......

[krismiler]

In Australia in 2018 there was a death rate of 5 women per 100 000 giving birth, and between 2009 and 2018 251 women died during pregnancy or within 42 of the end of pregnancy.

This could be reduced to zero if people stopped having children.

[StudentInDebt]

In Australia in 2018 there was a death rate of 5 women per 100 000 giving birth, and between 2009 and 2018 251 women died during pregnancy or within 42 of the end of pregnancy.

This could be reduced to zero if people stopped having children.
I think it would be reduced to 0 if women stopped becoming pregnant, rather than "if people stopped having children".

[Ladloy]

In Australia in 2018 there was a death rate of 5 women per 100 000 giving birth, and between 2009 and 2018 251 women died during pregnancy or within 42 of the end of pregnancy.

This could be reduced to zero if people stopped having children.
That's a terrible comparison.

[SHVC]

McGoose is becoming a one man army, he is taking on the additional role of state treasurer. Becoming the u,it ate dictator.

[dr dre]

McGoose is becoming a one man army, he is taking on the additional role of state treasurer. Becoming the u,it ate dictator.

Not that unusual at all. The WA Treasurer was usually the WA Premier until 2001. Colin Barnett also held both roles for a while. JBP did both roles in Qld for years. Since 2000 the Premier/Treasurer role has been held concurrently by one person for periods of time in NSW, SA, Tasmania, Victoria, the ACT and the NT. The current leaders of NT, ACT and Tasmania are also that respective jurisdiction's current Treasurer. In fact it's only the Federal Government in which there has usually been a separation between the roles of Premier/PM and Treasurer. You'd have to go back to 1949 when Ben Chifley was PM to find a dual PM/Treasurer.

[SOPS]

McGoose is becoming a one man army, he is taking on the additional role of state treasurer. Becoming the u,it ate dictator.


And with the two safest Liberal seats having gone to Labor in the last coupe of hours, today, I would think your average West Australian is quite happy.

[volare_737]

What hasn’t been said is that these countries are seemingly ignoring real world data from a country that has more experience with the vaccine than them (UK), who found that the prevalence of these clotting findings are actually less in the vaccinated population. There are also events associated with the Pfizer vaccine which seems to have been completely ignored.

The whole world seems to have got themselves into a position that no one gets sick naturally.

By stopping the rollout, they are causing unnecessary deaths.


haha - "The whole world seems to have got themselves into a position that no one gets sick naturally". Thats the best statement I have heard in a long time !!!! And sooooo true !!!

[Capt Fathom]

Western Australia is not a State! It is a state of mind!

[krismiler]

In 2020, 276 people died in road accidents in Queensland. That’s 3 every 4 days but we accept it because we can’t live without transport. Some people will die because of the vaccine, however a 100% safe vaccine won’t happen, there is a risk with any medical treatment but we accept that the benefits outweigh the risks and go ahead.

A small percentage of the population are allergic to peanuts and in severe cases that can lead to death yet peanuts are widely available with little control over their sale.

[nomorecatering]

If you have a low blood platelet count, consult a GP before getting the COVID vaccine.

ITP is quite common.

COVID can cause ITP

COVID vaccine can cause ITP in some cases. 150 out of 400 million recipients

Flu vaccine can cause ITP, so can other medicines and foods.

https://www.hematology.org/covid-19/covid-19-and-itp

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n699/rr-6\

I just wonder how the leaders and population will react when the next bad flu season hits. in 2017 4,500 people died from flu.

[compressor stall]

I wouldn't call rates of less than 1 in 10,000 "quite common".

And there is a big "do you suffer form auto immune disorders" on the consent form.

[Mach E Avelli]

Meanwhile back at the brains trust, the Vic Government seeks to contract more CBD quarantine hotels. YOUR taxes at work.
What is that definition of insanity again? Something about doing the same thing over & over while expecting a different outcome.

[Icarus2001]

Well since Victoria is not accepting overseas arrivals who is in quarantine there?

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/no-sign-of-flights-returning-but-victoria-set-to-contract-more-hotels-to-quarantine-program-20210319-p57cb0.html

[jrfsp]

Back on the topic of borders, Prof Murphy said today, "hopefully international travel will be possible in 2022". They keep moving the expectations further back. In 2020, they were hopefully for 2021, now its 2022. Even then it sounds like measures will still remain. "We might think about for example reducing the length of quarantine, or more home quarantine, particularly for vaccinated people. Our risk tolerance will change over the second half of this year. I think what I've said is nobody can really predict what will happen with international borders, I'm hopeful that pretty good international travel will happen next year but it's just too early to tell because there are things we don't know about the vaccines yet."

Currently my only incentive for vaccination is the possibility of international travel - if this is still heavily restricted, I wont be going and might hold off on vaccination.

[lc_461]

Back on the topic of borders, Prof Murphy said today, "hopefully international travel will be possible in 2022". They keep moving the expectations further back. In 2020, they were hopefully for 2021, now its 2022. Even then it sounds like measures will still remain. "We might think about for example reducing the length of quarantine, or more home quarantine, particularly for vaccinated people. Our risk tolerance will change over the second half of this year. I think what I've said is nobody can really predict what will happen with international borders, I'm hopeful that pretty good international travel will happen next year but it's just too early to tell because there are things we don't know about the vaccines yet."

Currently my only incentive for vaccination is the possibility of international travel - if this is still heavily restricted, I wont be going and might hold off on vaccination.

The way I see it, the more vaccinated the population is, the more likely those making decisions will be prepared to increase their risk tolerance. Europe has ballsed up their vaccine rollout, but the UK and US are really powering ahead. The vaccine has demonstrated a very strong ability to reduce mortality and hospitalisation. If hospitals are not being overrun and citizens are not dying of covid, then the government will be forced to treat it like any other communicable disease.

The initial challenge is changing the mindset at state level. Now the election cycles have passed, there also seems to be positive noises in that area.. WA for example didn't lock out NSW last week as they have before and QLD CHO has indicated a reduced appetite for lockdowns... Haven't heard any bleatings about "Qld hospitals for Qlders' since the election.

I think we have reason for optimism in our industry.. but only if as a population in Australia we work for the greater good... ie i'm in an age bracket that is unlikely to die of Covid - but I will take either the AZ or Pfizer vaccine as soon as it is available.

[Foxxster]

So you will still need to quarantine even if you have had the vaccine, and presumably by 2022, everyone or near to it, but especially the vulnerable groups will have been vaccinated. WTF is that ****e. God almighty, look at the mortality rates without a vaccine, in the UK and Australia, the average age of death of covid patients is 82. It really isn’t that horrific for most people. No it really isn’t. Now add a vaccine. It becomes like the flu.

what the hell is really going on here. I understand international travel may not be viable to countries who have not vaccinated a significant proportion of their population. The UK and the US at least are well on track already to achieve that. While Europe has cocked it up for political reasons and perhaps because they want to use their own vaccine. But you would hope they would have at least all their vulnerable groups done by the end of this year.

it is all beyond ridiculous now...

[zanthrus]

My tolerance for this stupidity reached zero some time ago.

I refuse to quarantine, social distance use a mask or use the tracking apps in ANY state.

Life goes on. Stuff the Govt’s and their Nazi gestapo police.

[goodonyamate]

My tolerance for this stupidity reached zero some time ago.

I refuse to quarantine, social distance use a mask or use the tracking apps in ANY state.

Life goes on. Stuff the Govt’s and their Nazi gestapo police.

sounds like every boomer I know.

[Guptar]

I second Zanthrus and I'm not a boomer.

[JJ 789]

I agree with Zanthrus too and I'm definitely not a boomer.

[goodonyamate]

So none of you wear masks in the airport? And if you get contacted by whoever and are instructed to isolate for some reason you just won’t do it?

my comment t about boomers was simpmy in reference to the behaviours I saw from then in my area when this all kicked off. After lockdown. They were the only ones not following the guidelines. I heard a few comment how great it was as the coffee shops were emptier. Let’s not forget those two that started the northern beaches outbreak.

[Foxxster]

So none of you wear masks in the airport? And if you get contacted by whoever and are instructed to isolate for some reason you just won’t do it?

my comment t about boomers was simpmy in reference to the behaviours I saw from then in my area when this all kicked off. After lockdown. They were the only ones not following the guidelines. I heard a few comment how great it was as the coffee shops were emptier. Let’s not forget those two that started the northern beaches outbreak.


strange because in places like the UK and I suspect here also, it is the twenty somethings that are the main offenders. I can’t see many boomers going to secret raves or having house parties with a hundred people, etc etc.,, but continue your anti boomer rant. And I don’t think it was boomers who were bonking the hotel guests in isolation they were meant to be guarding....