All borders to reopen.

[Ragnor]

Operations from all airlines now starting to cancel flights into SYD.

I didn’t expect anything less. I think January is cactus for NSW based crew. Even for McIdiot over in the West and Dictator Dan who had a smug smirk on his face whilst very proudly locking Sydney out will feel the effects. QLD TAS and SA well those poor ppl will be ruined. Like it or not or want to accept it Sydney/NSW really prop up the tourism/travel industry. I’ve seen it first hand in the last two months.

[Oriana]

Gladys and the NSW CMO were a bit mousy about who was and wasn't exempt from quarantine requirements. There might be some fuel here.

Department Of Foreign Affairs staff not required to quarantine on arrival. (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/dec/16/foreign-affairs-officials-allowed-to-skip-hotel-quarantine-when-returning-to-australia)

[wheels_down]

I didn’t expect anything less. I think January is cactus for NSW based crew. Even for McIdiot over in the West and Dictator Dan who had a smug smirk on his face whilst very proudly locking Sydney out will feel the effects. QLD TAS and SA well those poor ppl will be ruined. Like it or not or want to accept it Sydney/NSW really prop up the tourism/travel industry. I’ve seen it first hand in the last two months.
The amount of aircraft based in Melbourne and Brisbane that cycle in/out of a Sydney is quite significant. Sydney gone and up to half the work for some carriers from Sydney and Melbourne bases also.

Victoria out of action was not as severe, lost a limb. We have lost the guts essentially here.

[Bodie1]

Why have people got a problem with government officials, military being exempt from the hotel quarantine FFS.

[Ladloy]

I didn’t expect anything less. I think January is cactus for NSW based crew. Even for McIdiot over in the West and Dictator Dan who had a smug smirk on his face whilst very proudly locking Sydney out will feel the effects. QLD TAS and SA well those poor ppl will be ruined. Like it or not or want to accept it Sydney/NSW really prop up the tourism/travel industry. I’ve seen it first hand in the last two months.
I thought Gladys' 'Gold standard' contact tracing would save the day?

[jrfsp]

[QUOTE=Bodie1;10950813]

I'm in NSW at the moment, I've been caught up in lockdowns but am fortunate enough to have escaped most of it, I wouldn't be anywhere else, I'm lucky, I'm with family. I'd take Gladys in charge any day than a smug ****wit who's lucky enough to have the natural resources to keep a state afloat. Face it, you've got nothing else, a backwater really. If you left the federation no one would care.[QUOTE=Bodie1;10950813

Ahhh yes that backwater with the natural resources.....which requires a huge aviation sector, with hundreds of pilots of who have managed to keep their jobs / hours thanks to Covid being kept out of the state. We might not be flying around in flash new A380s etc, but flying the clapped out F100s, Dash 8s, 146s gives many junior pilots that first leg up in the commercial sector and has been the only bright spot during this whole Covid business.

[Ragnor]

I thought Gladys' 'Gold standard' contact tracing would save the day?

Its been three days mate. If this was Victoria it would be 300 already we have all seen it before. Contact tracing has at least identified all origins except 3. Patient zero which they suspect has left the country and the two today which are not a concern as they are in the LGA of the original cluster.

Sydney being out of action will have a big effect on airline/tourism but not the same as pre October as at least Vic SA TAS NT QLD can travel. But they will all notice NSW/SY not traveling.

[chookcooker]

I thought Gladys' 'Gold standard' contact tracing would save the day?
it may still. However the borders, now they’re shut aren’t opening for a few weeks minimum. Damage done. Unfortunate timing.

[Buster Hyman]

Dictator Dan who had a smug smirk on his face whilst very proudly locking Sydney out
When the heat is off and he can point the blame at someone else, he’s almost giddy with glee! There’ll be a puff piece in the papers about how he’d never let his mother go to Sydney or some other PR garbage...the cult of Dan is alive and well in Victoria province.

[dr dre]

Even though I’ve probably done it myself.....

..... maybe time for us all to cool off a bit. The conversation is getting a bit heated and it’s becoming a case of state v state, left v right, Lib v lab, no one would miss you if you left etc. It’s been bad enough this year without anonymous people in the industry we’re meant to have a lifelong passion for yelling at each other for no real benefit.

Let’s just be thankful at Christmas we don’t have a country with an out of control pandemic raging and people dying en masse.

[currawong]

Enough of the interstate animosity already. Its juvenile.

Standard practice to throw up a cordon around affected areas. Its called containment.

Or would you prefer all areas affected?

Chances are, every state will have its turn at an outbreak.

If it can be limited to one state at a time, the nation as a whole can continue to function and provide support for the affected state.

[Turnleft080]

Already see a difference between Dan and Gladys.

Dan is Labor = hard lockdown = sever the economy.
Gladys is Liberal = minimal lockdown = keep the economy flowing.

Interesting contrast. Time will tell what's the best option.

[currawong]

Already see a difference between Dan and Gladys.

Dan is Labor = hard lockdown = sever the economy.
Gladys is Liberal = minimal lockdown = keep the economy flowing.

Interesting contrast. Time will tell what's the best option.

Alternately, Hard Border = NO lockdown = economy unaffected

Except we all know its not that simple in any of the examples given.

[SOPS]

That's awesome for you. What comes across quite often from West Australians is the smug 'we're in near total freedom.' Well you've got that because you've got an insular clown who is lucky enough to have remote borders and a state that virtually no Australian wants to be in apart from West Australians. Your state has always had a massive chip on its shoulder and you now see payback. What Mc****wit does, anybody could do. What Gladys, Hazzard & Chant does is try and manage the virus holistically, it's obvious they are trying to manage the virus, the economy and people's mental health.



I'm in NSW at the moment, I've been caught up in lockdowns but am fortunate enough to have escaped most of it, I wouldn't be anywhere else, I'm lucky, I'm with family. I'd take Gladys in charge any day than a smug ****wit who's lucky enough to have the natural resources to keep a state afloat. Face it, you've got nothing else, a backwater really. If you left the federation no one would care.

If you don’t want to be in WA.. don’t come here. Why all the anger?

[SOPS]

That's awesome for you. What comes across quite often from West Australians is the smug 'we're in near total freedom.' Well you've got that because you've got an insular clown who is lucky enough to have remote borders and a state that virtually no Australian wants to be in apart from West Australians. Your state has always had a massive chip on its shoulder and you now see payback. What Mc****wit does, anybody could do. What Gladys, Hazzard & Chant does is try and manage the virus holistically, it's obvious they are trying to manage the virus, the economy and people's mental health.



I'm in NSW at the moment, I've been caught up in lockdowns but am fortunate enough to have escaped most of it, I wouldn't be anywhere else, I'm lucky, I'm with family. I'd take Gladys in charge any day than a smug ****wit who's lucky enough to have the natural resources to keep a state afloat. Face it, you've got nothing else, a backwater really. If you left the federation no one would care.

If you don’t want to be in WA.. don’t come here. Why all the anger?

[maggot]

Alternately, Hard Border = NO lockdown = economy unaffected

Except we all know its not that simple in any of the examples given.
unaffected for some particularly if selling rocks to.
china. Resource companies run WA.

[SOPS]

As the night goes on .. it looks like not only WA is closing the border to NSW.

[WhisprSYD]

I thought Gladys' 'Gold standard' contact tracing would save the day?

it still will. It’s only 4 days since the cluster became evident. There were 30 new cases yesterday, 28 which were immediately linked to the cluster and 2 more that weren’t far away from.

For perspective in Vics 2nd wave Dan started locking down suburbs when the daily new cases hit 75 and more than half of those had no known link, the response here by Gladys has been much quicker.

The short memories I’ve seen by some victorians have been incredible. Especially considering NSW took ALL their HQ arrivals so that they could sort out their backyard and gave every opportunity for them to get on top of.. it wasn’t until new cases were in the hundreds that the border was shut last time.

2 days of low double figures and you’ve got Dan joining the rest of the border idiots. Way to help your mates..

[blubak]

Enough of the interstate animosity already. Its juvenile.

Standard practice to throw up a cordon around affected areas. Its called containment.

Or would you prefer all areas affected?

Chances are, every state will have its turn at an outbreak.

If it can be limited to one state at a time, the nation as a whole can continue to function and provide support for the affected state.
Nobody in their right mind wants any borders closed,its time people saw the real reason for their closure instead of going some ridiculous revenge theory.
Nobody can deny how well NSW has managed this virus & even now despite not making masks mandatory they are doing everything to get it under control as quickly as possible.
Instead of accusing Andrews of being happy about closing the border & smirking as he announced it why not consider the massive risk involved if he doesnt.
The flow of people heading south would be out of control & if just a couple of them were infected it could well be the start of another disaster here in vic.
The anger of NSW people should be directed at the 2 boomers who thought the law didnt apply to them,they need to be singled out & made pay in the highest way possible.
Lots of people in vic dont like Andrews as im sure lots in nsw dont like Gladys but we have to accept their decisions & here in vic we have paid dearly for 1 really bad decision he made but right now i think the vast majority support his decision to close the border & in reality the option of doing nothing could spell disaster.
Lets hope the numbers over the next few days let us all enjoy xmas in the best way.

[Ragnor]

The anger of NSW people should be directed at the 2 boomers who thought the law didnt apply to them,they need to be singled out & made pay in the highest way possible.


I couldn't agree more, these two need to have the full extent of the law thrown at them. I still don't understand the point of public health orders if there is no retribution for breaking them. They are meaningless really.

[KRviator]

2 days of low double figures and you’ve got Dan joining the rest of the border idiots. Way to help your mates..Just thinking a bit of data would help show the anger in NSW towards other states and their reactions... Data is sourced from the BTRE airport traffic data (https://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/airport_traffic_data) to September 2020 and ABS population data (https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/national-state-and-territory-population/latest-release) to 30 June 2020.

Interesting viewing when you consider which state premiers seem to be quite happy to lock out an entire state, vs a region when they themselves refuse to pull their weight! I guess the simple solution is for Gladys to do what Danistan did, and simply refuse to accept any more international arrivals. I do wonder what other states would be willing to pick up the slack to get 2/3rds of travellers home so NSW can get on top of this outbreak....:hmm:
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1740x721/pprune_poparr_f45fde7fb3c3fe14aae41d0887c1b1581b2a3cb7.jpg
EDIT: Apologies, I dunno why the image is so large in the post, I didn't make it that bit in the first place!

[WingNut60]

Headline in West Australian newspaper this morning : THE BOOM IS BACK - BUSINESS CONFIDENCE IN WA ECONOMY HITS 13-YEAR HIGH

And you want us to do what?????????????

[Bodie1]

it’s becoming a case of state v state

Since when has it not been? The politics is a disgrace. Interesting that approval ratings of state premiers prior to covid had sunk to 19% but once the fear and hysteria had been whipped up, high 60's. Fear, disaster, hysteria. Sheep unable to think for themselves, easily manipulated.

If you don’t want to be in WA.. don’t come here. Why all the anger?

I'm not there now with no intention to ever be. Anger? Whatever you want to call it, calling out self interest and sheep unable to think for themselves probably. Wash you effing hands, cover you mouth and nose when you cough or sneeze, even better, wear a mask. Have a bit of consideration for people around you.

[Progress Wanchai]

Headline in West Australian newspaper this morning : THE BOOM IS BACK - BUSINESS CONFIDENCE IN WA ECONOMY HITS 13-YEAR HIGH

And you want us to do what?????????????

The technical definition of Utopia is a place that hits its high point in the middle of a global pandemic and the nation’s first recession in 30 years. Congratulations are due indeed!!

Can understand why the residents of WA are renowned for searching for highs using alternative means.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

seen the massive windfalls that have come their way, that no current generation will ever see.
You mean windfalls like the baby bonuses, 1st home buyers schemes, superannuation guarantee, low single figure interest rates, private health insurance rebate schemes etc etc...that the current generations get?

[Bodie1]

Okay Boomer

[goodonyamate]

You mean windfalls like the baby bonuses, 1st home buyers schemes, superannuation guarantee, low single figure interest rates, private health insurance rebate schemes etc etc...that the current generations get?


All of those combined won’t even touch the sides of the massive increase in property prices, lower mortgages needed when buying their first homes, mortgage payments as a percentage of income, increase in share markets, and participating in tax schemes etc that weren’t all tracked electronically. Yet....it’s always ‘give me more’ and ‘how dare the younger generations’

[kingRB]

You mean windfalls like the baby bonuses, 1st home buyers schemes, superannuation guarantee, low single figure interest rates, private health insurance rebate schemes etc etc...that the current generations get?

These aren't "windfalls", they are the Government's never ending expansion of monetary supply through woeful fiscal and monetary policies. They've inflated those markets enormously. The pain of which is being felt by the younger generations as they are increasingly priced out of them.

[SOPS]

Borders are really slamming shut. Now Victorians arriving from Sydney after midnight tonight won’t be allowed back into Victoria. Hotel quarantine is not even an option. They have to remain in NSW!!


And the road blocks are going back up in QLD.

[Fonz121]

Borders are really slamming shut. Now Victorians arriving from Sydney after midnight tonight won’t be allowed back into Victoria. Hotel quarantine is not even an option. They have to remain in NSW!!


And the road blocks are going back up in QLD.


Came here to comment on the same thing regarding Victoria. Surely that can’t be legal?

"In terms of people arriving after midnight Monday, the very strong message is anyone, Victorian or otherwise, coming in from the Greater Sydney area or Central Coast area will not be able to enter the state," Jeroen Weimar said.

"We are not offering mandatory hotel quarantine as an option."

[Lapon]

Came here to comment on the same thing regarding Victoria. Surely that can’t be legal?

"In terms of people arriving after midnight Monday, the very strong message is anyone, Victorian or otherwise, coming in from the Greater Sydney area or Central Coast area will not be able to enter the state," Jeroen Weimar said.

"We are not offering mandatory hotel quarantine as an option."

Pretty short sighted. Drive a desperate person into a corner and they will take desperate action aka just deny having travelled through those places in the first place and enter unrestricted.

Most people want to do the right thing, but dont do your best to impede them. Better to let them into hotel iso than encourage them to cheat the system

[getaway]

think many Sydneysiders going to Qld, will simply say on their pass that they live somewhere else in NSW.

You don't have to carry a drivers licence & plenty of cars are registered at a different address to home address. All our company cars are registered at head office, which is nowhere near where I live.

[Kickstarter]

Jetstar sale - $59 SYD/BNE or BNE/SYD for departures 6JAN-31March. Think they sell some seats departing before 8JAN why nutter Qld premier says she'll open Qld border to everyone.

[Ragnor]

WOW! Dan the man hey. That guy is a real piece of work hey.

[601]

think many Sydneysiders going to Qld, will simply say on their pass that they live somewhere else in NSW.

You don't have to carry a drivers licence & plenty of cars are registered at a different address to home address. All our company cars are registered at head office, which is nowhere near where I live.

Better brush on the Qld Regs.

Obligations for driving in QueenslandWhen driving in Queensland on your valid interstate or overseas licence, you must:


drive only the class of motor vehicle authorised on that licence
comply with your licence conditions (if any)
show your licence to a police officer when asked to do so.

[KRviator]

You have 48 hours to produce your licence in Queensland. You should carry it with you, you do not have to. Reference is s.58(3) of the Police Powers Responsibilities Act.

[currawong]

think many Sydneysiders going to Qld, will simply say on their pass that they live somewhere else in NSW.

You don't have to carry a drivers licence & plenty of cars are registered at a different address to home address. All our company cars are registered at head office, which is nowhere near where I live.

You haven't applied for a pass yet have you?

:}

"Just write anything, you will be right" went out about the same time the prosecutions started....

[Lazyload]

The thread title is now so wrong. I rename it to "Only one border must close" .Yes, that's right. We didn't invent the virus here. It arrived by air or sea. Australia is an island, so in the national interests we just now need to bite the bullet and stop all international passenger flights. All of them. No more tourists, no more repatriations, no more incoming pax or transiting aircrew from anywhere, period. I'm appalled that the new highly contagious virulent strain from the UK has now been detected in Australia. Whereas the EU is already stopping UK flights, Australia is wide open. Enough. Don't let them depart or turn them back midair.

[Bend alot]

The thread title is now so wrong. I rename it to "Only one border must close" .Yes, that's right. We didn't invent the virus here. It arrived by air or sea. Australia is an island, so in the national interests we just now need to bite the bullet and stop all international passenger flights. All of them. No more tourists, no more repatriations, no more incoming pax or transiting aircrew from anywhere, period. I'm appalled that the new highly contagious virulent strain from the UK has now been detected in Australia. Whereas the EU is already stopping UK flights, Australia is wide open. Enough. Don't let them depart or turn them back midair.

Marine and Air Cargo crew exempt I assume, and Diplomats and others exempt and their aircrew.

[Global Aviator]

The thread title is now so wrong. I rename it to "Only one border must close" .Yes, that's right. We didn't invent the virus here. It arrived by air or sea. Australia is an island, so in the national interests we just now need to bite the bullet and stop all international passenger flights. All of them. No more tourists, no more repatriations, no more incoming pax or transiting aircrew from anywhere, period. I'm appalled that the new highly contagious virulent strain from the UK has now been detected in Australia. Whereas the EU is already stopping UK flights, Australia is wide open. Enough. Don't let them depart or turn them back midair.

No worries Pauline.

What about all the Aussies trying to get home that have had multiple flight cancellations? Aussies that get called and given 24 hours notice to get on a repat flight? Aussies that want to come home full stop. I suggest you pick up your passport and have a read of the pages..............

How many other passenger flights are coming in? Apart from A listers on Globals to Byron?

Yes 100% the system needs to be fixed to be bullet proof but while you’ve got states and territories not working as a team ya got no hope. For instance why is Howard Springs not being fully utilised? Get the ADF in if necessary but use the facility, it’s the closest thing to a purpose built quarantine facility Aus has, get all 3500 beds going. Easy? No! Doable? Yes!

I think we are better than F off we’re full!

[Servo]

The thread title is now so wrong. I rename it to "Only one border must close" .Yes, that's right. We didn't invent the virus here. It arrived by air or sea. Australia is an island, so in the national interests we just now need to bite the bullet and stop all international passenger flights. All of them. No more tourists, no more repatriations, no more incoming pax or transiting aircrew from anywhere, period. I'm appalled that the new highly contagious virulent strain from the UK has now been detected in Australia. Whereas the EU is already stopping UK flights, Australia is wide open. Enough. Don't let them depart or turn them back midair.

Any links to the virulent, highly contagious UK strain being found here in Oz. First time I have heard it mentioned.

[Trampdave]

Just strayed onto this thread and I am honestly in an absolute shock! Are all Ozzys gripped with fear or is it just a special bunch here? Is the whole island going insane? Did anyone tell u that this is not an ebola outbreak?
There are tens of thousands of cases every day in europe, and the live goes on (though stupidely restricted). Most my friends and I including families have had it, and all that has happened were headaches, some had fever, kids absolutely nothing. Yes, it can be dangerous for some, just like numerous other diseases.
For how long are u willing to stop your lives? You really think u can outsmart such a virus by isolation? And what if u get other strains? Covid 21, 22, 23...? How long can your economy idle and your government print more money to compensate for sitting still? Is freedom to choose just an empty word now?

[benttrees]

Kerry Chant said it this morning in her brief

[Bend alot]

Just strayed onto this thread and I am honestly in an absolute shock! Are all Ozzys gripped with fear or is it just a special bunch here? Is the whole island going insane? Did anyone tell u that this is not an ebola outbreak?
There are tens of thousands of cases every day in europe, and the live goes on (though stupidely restricted). Most my friends and I including families have had it, and all that has happened were headaches, some had fever, kids absolutely nothing. Yes, it can be dangerous for some, just like numerous other diseases.
For how long are u willing to stop your lives? You really think u can outsmart such a virus by isolation? And what if u get other strains? Covid 21, 22, 23...? How long can your economy idle and your government print more money to compensate for sitting still? Is freedom to choose just an empty word now?
Think us and our economy are doing better than Sweden by a factor of X.
Certainly better than Britain and the USA.
Glad you got it and zero basically effects - How was the flight in the US recently? about to get tested I hear.

Sounds like a lovely flight for the rest of the pax while 3 doing CPR.

[Ragnor]

What will it take. If you’re stuck over seas well sorry it’s time we look after the mother land. No more extensions for diplomats apranetly zoom is awesome movie stars well you’re lower than the scum on my feet you can’t wait. Time to look after the greater good Australia. I really wish Gladys take the strong approach and stop international arrivals.

[Servo]

Kerry Chant said it this morning in her brief

Thanks. Just had a link pop up on my news feed. Who says Google is not monitoring what we say and write.

Not something we need. Article stated, Chant refused to say whether the people with the UK strain were in hotel quarantine.

Why is information being withheld? I get a feeling that state and federal politicians and their advisors are withholding a lot of information.

[currawong]

Limited international arrivals, as we have now, should not be a problem.

IF handled correctly.

Turns out, somewhat surprisingly, they are not being handled correctly.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Just strayed onto this thread and I am honestly in an absolute shock! Are all Ozzys gripped with fear or is it just a special bunch here? Is the whole island going insane? Did anyone tell u that this is not an ebola outbreak?
There are tens of thousands of cases every day in europe, and the live goes on (though stupidely restricted). Most my friends and I including families have had it, and all that has happened were headaches, some had fever, kids absolutely nothing. Yes, it can be dangerous for some, just like numerous other diseases.
For how long are u willing to stop your lives? You really think u can outsmart such a virus by isolation? And what if u get other strains? Covid 21, 22, 23...? How long can your economy idle and your government print more money to compensate for sitting still? Is freedom to choose just an empty word now?

Yes mate, most on this forum are a special kind..

We are nothing more than scared school kids, and we’re screwed unless these vaccines do the trick...

It’s what happens when you’ve been a nanny state for so long, you just do what Mummy tells you “to stay safe”.

I used to be proud to say I was an Australian - now it’s a tad embarrassing.. we’re a bunch of sheep..

[getaway]

You have 48 hours to produce your licence in Queensland. You should carry it with you, you do not have to. Reference is s.58(3) of the Police Powers Responsibilities Act.
e medicare card or passport is all that's required. Don't have to provide an address. This nonsense has gone on way too long.

[getaway]

Yes mate, most on this forum are a special kind..

We are nothing more than scared school kids, and we’re screwed unless these vaccines do the trick...

It’s what happens when you’ve been a nanny state for so long, you just do what Mummy tells you “to stay safe”.

I used to be proud to say I was an Australian - now it’s a tad embarrassing.. we’re a bunch of sheep..
luckily guns are strill legal. I'm getting a big one for Xmas. Watch out.

[Bodie1]

Are all Ozzys gripped with fear or is it just a special bunch here?

Dude, it's pathetic. You should live amongst this embarrassment. You should have seen the airports and highways, it was like armageddon. Pathetic and embarrassing.

The worst group are the boomers, petrified ninnies, their parents would be disgusted.

[halfmoon]

I've clicked on numerous surveys and it seems 90% want a lockdown to occur in Sydney to stop this latest spread.

[getaway]

Dude, it's pathetic. You should live amongst this embarrassment. You should have seen the airports and highways, it was like armageddon. Pathetic and embarrassing.

The worst group are the boomers, petrified ninnies, their parents would be disgusted.
while Delta is now flying Americans to EU without restrictions(they might have to wear a mask) & no quarantine. Delta looking to do the same to Asia.

[SOPS]

Dude, it's pathetic. You should live amongst this embarrassment. You should have seen the airports and highways, it was like armageddon. Pathetic and embarrassing.

The worst group are the boomers, petrified ninnies, their parents would be disgusted.
Us ‘ Boomers’ are not so keen on seeing Australia turn into the USA or the UK.. with thousands of deaths. But that’s just us. ( or me).

[Ragnor]

One things we can agree on. We are not Australian, we are not in this together we are more individual than ever our states divided by an imaginary line each having its own set of rules a federal goverment that’s totally powerless which has really only been realized to us with the outbreak of this pandemic. Some what ashamed on how other Australians are treating other Australians. If you’re in Aviation, tourism or hospitality be prepared for these open close borders which will be against NSW mostly as the risk is higher due to higher international arrivals When Victoria gets its next community case I hope McIdiot and the rest of them lock them out just to see Dan smug face then.

[Ascend Charlie]

I am very happy to be in Oz, where 20 cases make news and 1 death is a headline. Not like Europe or Trumptown with 300,000 dead and tens of thousands more cases every day, hospitals loaded to the max, medical staff run off their feet.

In regional QLD, no lockdowns, no cases, and back in April, no toilet paper. But all good now, only difference is, no tourists.

[Green.Dot]

There are tens of thousands of cases every day in europe, and the live goes on (though stupidely restricted).

How long can your economy idle and your government print more money to compensate for sitting still? Is freedom to choose just an empty word now?

You’d be hard pressed to get many Aussies (pilots included who want borders open) to agree with you that the UK strategy has been better.

Right now the figures say our economy is doing much better than Europe and our hospitals have spare capacity.

Not saying all this to be smug, just acknowledging we have got lucky with our geographical position and mining resources propping up the economy, and yes it can all come crashing down overnight.

Thoughts with everyone doing it tough around the world, hope you can have a good Christmas under the circumstances.

[blubak]

One things we can agree on. We are not Australian, we are not in this together we are more individual than ever our states divided by an imaginary line each having its own set of rules a federal goverment that’s totally powerless which has really only been realized to us with the outbreak of this pandemic. Some what ashamed on how other Australians are treating other Australians. If you’re in Aviation, tourism or hospitality be prepared for these open close borders which will be against NSW mostly as the risk is higher due to higher international arrivals When Victoria gets its next community case I hope McIdiot and the rest of them lock them out just to see Dan smug face then.
That may well happen but i dont believe borders are being closed because it makes the premier of another state feel good.
Why is it that NSW is still allowing gatherings of 300 people & still only recommending masks.
The leading infection experts are still trying to make sense of these 2 decisions so in reality the NSW premier is really her own worst enemy right now despite having done an outstanding job over many many months.

[Green.Dot]

One things we can agree on. We are not Australian, we are not in this together we are more individual than ever our states divided by an imaginary line each having its own set of rules a federal goverment that’s totally powerless which has really only been realized to us with the outbreak of this pandemic. Some what ashamed on how other Australians are treating other Australians. If you’re in Aviation, tourism or hospitality be prepared for these open close borders which will be against NSW mostly as the risk is higher due to higher international arrivals When Victoria gets its next community case I hope McIdiot and the rest of them lock them out just to see Dan smug face then.

I think Dan is a moron of the highest order. The clusterf*vck in Victoria was caused by incompetence, a lack of oversight and since then there has been little ownership of the mistakes and lie after lie.

But I don’t disagree with him closing the border to Sydney in the SHORT term- Melburnians don’t deserve another lockdown under his regime. I’ll disagree if he pushes for 28 days no community transmission in re opening, that will take months.

[Ragnor]

Any way they're closed 250 million lost to QLD alone is estimated, QLD to their credit have indicated an end date to revisit the open back up day being 8th January at the earliest. What are the other states going to do? SA, VIC NT and TAS don't have a plan yet WA well mcidiot will wait until March I suspect. By comparison to size SA recent Parafield was much worse by percentage other states except WA seem to open quickly to SA. yesterday 15 (0.041899% positive from test conducted) from 38,500 test is a huge turn out best in the country to date.

As for mask, well Glayds is relying on everyone being accountable and not making the mask mandatory this has worked so far, however, could it have prevented this Avalon outbreak who knows as patient zero can not be identified but suspicions is it was an international arrival hence mask wouldn't have mattered as this person should have been isolating anyway. As of this morning international crew are going 1 of 2 government hotels instead of going to 1 of 22 so this is good start on fixing that hole in the cheese. Next weak link is now international exemptions allowing ppl to isolate at home.

[currawong]

Yeah no big deal.

Meanwhile, in California ICU capacity has tanked and mass fatality protocols activated...

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201218/covid-has-southern-california-icu-capacity-at-zero

Other regions reporting at more than 100%

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/09/us/covid-hospitals-icu-capacity.html

[601]

Originally Posted by KRviator View Post (https://www.pprune.org/showthread.php?p=10951511#post10951511)
You have 48 hours to produce your licence in Queensland. You should carry it with you, you do not have to. Reference is s.58(3) of the Police Powers Responsibilities Act.
e medicare card or passport is all that's required. Don't have to provide an address. This nonsense has gone on way too long.

That only applies under the Road Use Management Act or the Heavy Vehicle National Law (Queensland);
The Public Health Act 2005 gives the Police wider powers.

[Bodie1]

You think you can outrun nature do you? Good luck with that.

As a mate of mine said, "look at the upside mate, no one has died of old age since March"

[Ladloy]

You think you can outrun nature do you? Good luck with that.

As a mate of mine said, "look at the upside mate, no one has died of old age since March"
No one ever dies of old age.

[Bodie1]

Watch the morning briefing and see how real professionals deal with this, Chant, Berijiklian :ok:

[WhisprSYD]

Watch the morning briefing and see how real professionals deal with this, Chant, Berijiklian :ok:

Yep 👍🏼

and the irony in all the ‘ha the gold standard’ sarcasm that was across social media 2 days ago now that it seems like NSW’s gold standard tracing is going to (fingers crossed) get this under control in under a week

[Ragnor]

They're the best in the world. Also with them doing an exceptional job is the public which is following the direction and rules being put in place in a very dynamic environment so Sydney ppl are just as much to thank.

[Bodie1]

I've had to travel through the 3 eastern states quite a bit during the last 8 months, the difference between the states is marked. Being nannied into Stockholm Syndrome in VIC, the constant jingoism in QLD by quite possibly the dumbest politician in Australia (Miles) and the just get on with it in NSW.

Watching the southern and northern borders this morning is embarrassing. Thinking of a couple of mates and the inevitability of them being stood down again after probably the toughest 9 months of their lives, the destruction of hundreds of millions into the economy and family businesses. Well done Australia, 'We're all in this together'

[1A_Please]

luckily guns are strill legal. I'm getting a big one for Xmas. Watch out.
BNEA320 is trying to get his latest pseudonym banned to add it to his collection.

[wheels_down]

Watch the morning briefing and see how real professionals deal with this, Chant, Berijiklian :ok:
Big difference today compared to the previous few days. They stumbled on the first few days, and whilst what is going on behind closed doors leaves other states for dead, the car crash media briefings didn’t put faith in many. Looks like the PR team cleaned a few things up.

She left Sutton and Dan for dead today. Incredibly detailed and they most certainly know what’s going on it appears.

You don’t really need to question contact tracing after seeing today’s performance. Watching months of Victoria briefings you just walk away full of skepticism. Always so many questions left unanswered. Too much unknown and guesswork. No matter how smooth talking Dan and Brett make it.

[Ragnor]

Well our boomers are at it again. 70yr old that’s supposed to stay home being an Avalon resident was fined for breaching the health order. Decided to go to Ulladulla leisure centre for a swim.

[currawong]

"NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian says infections slipping through the cracks of hotel quarantine are "inevitable", after a case linked to the scheme was confirmed today."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-22/nsw-hotel-quarantine-cases-inevitable-as-third-emerges/13007030

:hmm:

[Trampdave]

I am very happy to be in Oz, where 20 cases make news and 1 death is a headline. Not like Europe or Trumptown with 300,000 dead and tens of thousands more cases every day, hospitals loaded to the max, medical staff run off their feet.

In regional QLD, no lockdowns, no cases, and back in April, no toilet paper. But all good now, only difference is, no tourists.

I m sure a caged monkey in a zoo would be just as happy talking its wild counterpart. 😉

[Potsie Weber]

CDC quarantine guidelines now suggest if no symptoms and have negative test on day 5, a 7 day isolation period is adequate (10 days if no symptoms and no test). At the very least, this should be a reduced requirement for border imposed isolation.

[blubak]

They're the best in the world. Also with them doing an exceptional job is the public which is following the direction and rules being put in place in a very dynamic environment so Sydney ppl are just as much to thank.
Have never doubted the leaders in NSW, vic stuffed up in a big way but i think to their credit they have really turned that around & in reality all the opposition can do is still play poltics.
No govt will please everyone & even the govt you vote in may not give you what you think they should,all the people following the rules imposed will give the best result & overall thats what is happening.
I have friends in a couple of european countries who would give anything to be living here right now so who is better off?? Easy answer i would have thought.

[WingNut60]

I m sure a caged monkey in a zoo would be just as happy talking its wild counterpart. 😉
Not sure which part of the EU you live in, but if I want to leave the state in which I live I need to travel 1400 km (distance to the nearest border).
If I want to go to Sydney then that figure doubles plus some.
This state has not had a case of virus in-the-wild or Covid death in over 250 days.
The only restriction of which I know and with which I am required to comply (other than my federal government imposed, monkey's cage travel restrictions) is to leave my telephone number when visiting certain venues.
Unemployment in the state is very slightly above the level it was pre-Covid and as I said in an earlier post, business confidence is reportedly at a 13 year high.

Now tell me again, why am I supposed to feel like a monkey in a cage?

[blubak]

Not sure which part of the EU you live in, but if I want to leave the state in which I live I need to travel 1400 km (distance to the nearest border).
If I want to go to Sydney then that figure doubles plus some.
This state has not had a case of virus in-the-wild or Covid death in over 250 days.
The only restriction of which I know and with which I am required to comply (other than my federal government imposed, monkey's cage travel restrictions) is to leave my telephone number when visiting certain venues.
Unemployment in the state is very slightly above the level it was pre-Covid and as I said in an earlier post, business confidence is reportedly at a 13 year high.

Now tell me again, why am I supposed to feel like a monkey in a cage?
Correct,ok there are some restrictions right now which are not perfect by any means but like i said previously look at europe.
I feel lucky to be in oz right now,it is not perfect but putting it in perspective where would you rather be?

[WingNut60]

Correct,ok there are some restrictions right now which are not perfect by any means but like i said previously look at europe.
I feel lucky to be in oz right now,it is not perfect but putting it in perspective where would you rather be?
Anywhere in Oz except,perhaps, within about a 200 km radius of Westfield Chatswood.
And that has nothing to do with Covid.

[KRviator]

This state has not had a case of virus in-the-wild or Covid death in over 250 days.Please tell the rest of us why that might be? Surely it wouldn't be because your esteemed leader refused to pull his weight with international arrivals during the initial stages of the pandemic - preferring to let other states carry the load, while at the same time, crowing about how good his measures have been? And surely that wouldn't be because he hasn't prepared said state for its' own COVID outbreak, instead preferring to whinge about how only "2,000 tests is four times the normal number and that's why people were turned away from getting tested" while NSW can successfully test over 44,000 people in one day!

Any turkey can close the borders and say "Look how good we have done!", that's not the real measure of success - particularly when you are not your own nation, but part of a federation of states. Though I guess I shouldn't be surprised - WA didn't even sign up to Federation when everyone else did, that came weeks later when they finally decided they should be part of Australia....

While I am rightly critical of the NSW Government on many levels, I would say they have been the most successful - and the most reasonable - in the entire thing. They have brought back more Australian's through Sydney since March than all the other states combined! They have done so, notwithstanding they have had several outbreaks and have only closed one border once and even then it took a serious outbreak to trigger that, and they have proven many times they can get on top of any outbreaks fairly rapidly. And even now when when dealing with their most significant outbreak in months, at a time when other states are shutting NSWelshmen out, they continue to bring significantly more Australian through Sydney than other states.

Nope, I wouldn't be proud to say I'm from Qld or WA when talking about a COVID response....

[Derfred]

CDC quarantine guidelines now suggest if no symptoms and have negative test on day 5, a 7 day isolation period is adequate (10 days if no symptoms and no test). At the very least, this should be a reduced requirement for border imposed isolation.

Ahh, but that's based on accepting a 90% containment of COVID, which they now deem acceptable, given the circumstances in the US.

If you want 100% containment, you still need 14 days, sorry. The incubation period of COVID hasn't changed.

[blubak]

Please tell the rest of us why that might be? Surely it wouldn't be because your esteemed leader refused to pull his weight with international arrivals during the initial stages of the pandemic - preferring to let other states carry the load, while at the same time, crowing about how good his measures have been? And surely that wouldn't be because he hasn't prepared said state for its' own COVID outbreak, instead preferring to whinge about how only "2,000 tests is four times the normal number and that's why people were turned away from getting tested" while NSW can successfully test over 44,000 people in one day!

Any turkey can close the borders and say "Look how good we have done!", that's not the real measure of success - particularly when you are not your own nation, but part of a federation of states. Though I guess I shouldn't be surprised - WA didn't even sign up to Federation when everyone else did, that came weeks later when they finally decided they should be part of Australia....

While I am rightly critical of the NSW Government on many levels, I would say they have been the most successful - and the most reasonable - in the entire thing. They have brought back more Australian's through Sydney since March than all the other states combined! They have done so, notwithstanding they have had several outbreaks and have only closed one border once and even then it took a serious outbreak to trigger that, and they have proven many times they can get on top of any outbreaks fairly rapidly. And even now when when dealing with their most significant outbreak in months, at a time when other states are shutting NSWelshmen out, they continue to bring significantly more Australian through Sydney than other states.

Nope, I wouldn't be proud to say I'm from Qld or WA when talking about a COVID response....
Over 20000 tests in vic yesterday,over 40000 in nsw,forget about the past,forget about who is red or blue,what is important now is how important the public consider doing the right thing is & these figures speak for themselves.
Lets enjoy xmas & just do the right thing,u may not like the government or the cho or the restrictions in place but like i have said before imagine living in europe right now,a relative who works in the medical system in the netherlands just told me today they have a government with no b..ls,people just go f u.

[Trampdave]

This state has not had a case of virus in-the-wild or Covid death in over 250 days.
The only restriction of which I know and with which I am required to comply (other than my federal government imposed, monkey's cage travel restrictions) is to leave my telephone number when visiting certain venues.

Now tell me again, why am I supposed to feel like a monkey in a cage?

Well congratulations. It almost seams like people have stopped dying alltogether in your state. 😉

if travel resteictions dont bother you, then u are obviously not in the aviation industry or happily retired and u dont give it a ... For the rest of us, its a huge deal, like not having a job since march for instance.
A huge cage is still a CAGE if u cannot leave it as u please!

[Trampdave]

Correct,ok there are some restrictions right now which are not perfect by any means but like i said previously look at europe.
I feel lucky to be in oz right now,it is not perfect but putting it in perspective where would you rather be?

Many people in totalitarian states feel lucky to be there as well, cause they dont realize how sick and f..ked up the whole thing is. 😉

[Green.Dot]

Looks like ScoMo has had enough of open/shut borders...

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6218094040001

[Ragnor]

I bet all those police will love being recalled from leave to do this.

[KRviator]

And the NT has already revoked the Hotspot classification for the vast majority of Sydney! In place for 4 days and already reviewed and rescinded based on NSW's testing & handling of the outbreak.

Let's see how many months WA takes...I'm tipping a 1:1 ratio, 1 day NT:1 month WA. I might be able to get back to work by Easter...That'll be after the WA election too!Acting Northern Territory Chief Minister Nicole Manison says the NT has revoked a "large majority" of the declared hotspots in Greater Sydney.

This means that Sydneysiders quarantining in the NT will be released this afternoon — although anyone who has been to the northern beaches area will have to stay put.

"A number of suburbs that are already directly located around the outbreak will remain as hotspot areas," Ms Manison said. "What I can say is that the Greater Sydney area, including the Blue Mountains along with the Central Coast, will be removed effective immediately."

On Sunday, the NT declared Greater Sydney — including the Blue Mountains, Illawarra and the Central Coast — a coronavirus hotspot. The Northern Beaches local government area was declared a hotspot on Thursday last week.

Ms Manison said a full list of the remaining hotspot suburbs would be listed on the NT Government's coronavirus website shortly. She warned the Northern Territory would not hesitate to add more suburbs to the list if needed.

"Please know that if anything changes we will not hesitate to act quickly if we have to in the coming days," Ms Manison said. "The Territory has been the safest place in the country and that has been for good reason. "Every decision on every day for the last 10 months has always been about keeping Territorians safe and putting them first, and that is something that we will never change." Source (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-24/nt-coronavirus-breaking-hotspot-syndey-status-revoked/13013308)

[LapSap]

Not aviation related but I’m intrigued at the apparent softly softly approach to the superyacht that has turned up in Cairns with 14 pax (1 positive) and 6 crew.
No knowledge of international marine law but presumably, just like an international flight, you can’t just rock up without prior notice to immigration authorities.
It seems the authorities are more worried about where the vessel has been than anything else.
It’s unclear what nationality any of them are but if any are non-Australian citizens, how can the operator of the vessel even consider setting sail for Australia with the current restrictions?

[SOPS]

Not aviation related but I’m intrigued at the apparent softly softly approach to the superyacht that has turned up in Cairns with 14 pax (1 positive) and 6 crew.
No knowledge of international marine law but presumably, just like an international flight, you can’t just rock up without prior notice to immigration authorities.
It seems the authorities are more worried about where the vessel has been than anything else.
It’s unclear what nationality any of them are but if any are non-Australian citizens, how can the operator of the vessel even consider setting sail for Australia with the current restrictions?

I was thinking the same thing!

[KRviator]

It's Queen$$$$$land - where money talk$ and bull$hit walks. So long as they're bringing in more $$ to the state than your average Joe Citizen, you're welcome. Just ask Tom Hank$, or the AFL player$.

Allowing sporting codes and entertainment stars to enter Queensland from hotspot states and overseas brings "a lot of money into the state" and has flow-on health effects, according to Chief Health Officer Jeannette Young.

[coaldemon]

Yachts are tracked inbound. What do you think the various surveillance and Satellite assets do all day. Friend of mine inbound from Vanuatu had to have a Txpdr onboard and give notice that they were intending to dock in Bundaberg 8 days out. Would be very surprised if this yacht was not tracked all the way.

[currawong]

It's Queen$$$$$land - where money talk$ and bull$hit walks. So long as they're bringing in more $$ to the state than your average Joe Citizen, you're welcome. Just ask Tom Hank$, or the AFL player$.



Um. Yeah....

"Cricket Australia (CA) says the Indian touring party will quarantine in Sydney instead of Brisbane."

"When Queensland raised objections earlier this week, CA approached NSW."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-22/indian-cricketers-quarantine-in-sydney-not-brisbane/12804356

[Sunfish]

Close all international borders for the foreseeable future.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-29/coronavirus-queensland-records-first-case-south-african-strain/13010534

[Joker89]

Close all international borders for the foreseeable future.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-29/coronavirus-queensland-records-first-case-south-african-strain/13010534

hyperbole but probably accurate. The fear of death from a respiratory illness didn’t seem to matter when 2000 people were dying a month in Australia last year. Now it’s probably close to zero.

[Climb150]

Close all international borders for the foreseeable future.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-29/coronavirus-queensland-records-first-case-south-african-strain/13010534
North Korea style. Just pray that China keeps buying timber and coal from us.

Let's do it.

[SOPS]

Community outbreak just being reported in Victoria. Here we go again!!

[Green.Dot]

Community outbreak just being reported in Victoria. Here we go again!!

Standing by for McGowan announcement

[highflyer40]

Yachts are tracked inbound. What do you think the various surveillance and Satellite assets do all day. Friend of mine inbound from Vanuatu had to have a Txpdr onboard and give notice that they were intending to dock in Bundaberg 8 days out. Would be very surprised if this yacht was not tracked all the way.

They are not going to use valuable satellite time to keep track of all commercial and pleasure craft in Australian waters. The same for surveillance radar. No country has the ability to monitor ALL of its airspace along the coast let alone surface vessels where range would be severely limited. The Australian requirement is only for a maximum of 96 hours notice of entering waters. All you have to do is send an email to a specified address with your approximate arrival date and arrival port. You do not need to wait for approval or clearance. Proof you sent the email is good enough. Once in port you may not leave the boat until border security has cleared you though.

[thisishardtochoose]

Community outbreak just being reported in Victoria. Here we go again!!

All apparently linked to Sydney outbreak

[SOPS]

Standing by for McGowan announcement
Funny you should say that .. posted on the ABC, 20 minutes ago.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-30/wa-open-border-with-vic-at-risk-after-melbourne-covid-cases/13022364


Updated to add.. just reported that an Emergency Meeting underway now in WA to consider a border shut down with Victoria.

[jrfsp]

Well where are all the people on this forum criticizing the state premiers for closing borders.....???

Didnt close fast enough it seems....

[Ladloy]

Wtf is gladys doing. Get it sorted.

[rattman]

So am I missing something Gladys tells everyone to stay at home for new years but the fireworks is still going head as planned.

If that correct am I only thinking that is a incredably stupid idea ?

[dr dre]

Wtf is gladys doing. Get it sorted.

Small government, let the free market sort it out, can’t hurt the economy blah blah blah.

It’s pretty obvious now we need the vaccine here ASAP. The current Federal government plan to have it completed by October is too late. Even the Conservatives in the UK are rolling out their vaccination schedule to have an effective end to the pandemic by Northern Spring, 6 months before Australia according to their Health Secretary. Now obviously the situation is worse over there but no reason our government can’t expedite the arrival and rollout of the vaccine here as much as possible and show us they’re going to make it priority one.

But I can’t see much about it, on the PM’s FB page a few touchy feely messages for Sydney, a cheesy Christmas message, some military personnel being sent to Fiji, some religious message, but very very little about the vaccine and the plan to bring it here ASAP, which should be priority one.

[Climb150]

So where exactly did the Northern Beaches outbreak originate? Usually the news takes delight in blaming "foreign flight crews" and "returned travellers".

Do we have a Victoria style lapse of protocol here that nobody will admit?

[Ragnor]

Well Dan will not loose his 60 odd days he has another column “cases squired interstate” that’s the blame column. Vic will do a hard border closure to NSW and WA will close to Vic standby for Queen P up in the north they will close by weeks end. Get ready for stand downs

[Green.Dot]

Well where are all the people on this forum criticizing the state premiers for closing borders.....???

Didnt close fast enough it seems....

Just taking a stab in the dark but could be because domestic pilot salaries are directly linked to borders being open and people buying tickets to fly somewhere?! This is a pilot forum after all.

I won’t even argue whether it’s right or wrong to close anymore- it’s pointless. 10 cases a day has the same effect as a 1000. Some borders shut and consumer confidence disappears. SA govt tells people to come home from NSW being one such example. 2021 will drag on just as much as 2020 I suspect. :ugh:

[Climb150]

So borders close whenever someone sneeze's now but you will wait 6 months for vaccinations to start?

[Green.Dot]

So borders close whenever someone sneeze's now but you will wait 6 months for vaccinations to start?

Bring on the vaccinations tomorrow. No arguments from me. But just another thing out of mine (and your) control. :ok:

[Australopithecus]

Has anyone seen published any coherent plan to distribute and administer the vaccine doses when they finally do arrive? Watching the USA train wreck from afar reveals that poor planning is a disaster: their current rate means more than four years to vaccinate 75% of their population.

The local medicines authority here insists on conducting their own data review before they approve any vaccine for local use despite competent authority approvals overseas. Why? Protecting their turf in the face of obvious immediate need?

[Ladloy]

Well Dan will not loose his 60 odd days he has another column “cases squired interstate” that’s the blame column. Vic will do a hard border closure to NSW and WA will close to Vic standby for Queen P up in the north they will close by weeks end. Get ready for stand downs
60 day streak has now been flipped to 0

[C441]

The local medicines authority here insists on conducting their own data review before they approve any vaccine for local use despite competent authority approvals overseas. Why?
The local medical authorities in the UK and US have given emergency 'approval' for the use of couple of vaccines because their situation is critical and bordering on unmanageable. Ours is not.

Some months ago most medical authorities around the world, including here, suggested that the complete results of testing of a number of the vaccines would be complete in March. I guess it was on that basis that the Australian Government set it's timeline.

[galdian]

60 day streak has now been flipped to 0

Seriously - why would anyone have expected anything else??

Dealing with a new virus with mutations, for all the pain Vic appears to have demonstrated that if people isolate/don't travel the spread stops.
Conversely, of course, once travel starts again there will be new cases as sure as night follows day.

Anyone who thinks this virus can be eliminated is nuts.
At best maybe it can be controlled whilst life goes on - some people will get sick, some may die but at some stage the siege mentality has to give way to getting on with life and taking the knocks.

Federally at some stage the govt gotta say "enough", Australia is one country and must look to move forward as one.

Maybe the removal of additional funding to states who don't want to "move forward as one" would give pause for thought?
Don't have the answer but at some stage a tipping point has to be reached where the good of Australia has to override the perception/whim of individual state and territory leaders.

With the present mentality W.A. will NEVER open again - and that is both bull**** and intolerable.

[compressor stall]

And don’t think that the vaccine will mean borders open to those who are vaccinated in a vaccine passport (yellow fever style).
Now gaining awareness mainstream but the vaccine doesn’t appear to stop you catching and spreading it. Rather it stops YOU getting sick but you might still be able to spread it all the same.

[Australopithecus]

The local medical authorities in the UK and US have given emergency 'approval' for the use of couple of vaccines because their situation is critical and bordering on unmanageable. Ours is not.

Some months ago most medical authorities around the world, including here, suggested that the complete results of testing of a number of the vaccines would be complete in March. I guess it was on that basis that the Australian Government set it's timeline.

Yes, but the emergency use authorisations weren’t slapdash, and full licences won’t be issued before March anyway.

[Australopithecus]

And don’t think that the vaccine will mean borders open to those who are vaccinated in a vaccine passport (yellow fever style).
Now gaining awareness mainstream but the vaccine doesn’t appear to stop you catching and spreading it. Rather it stops YOU getting sick but you might still be able to spread it all the same.

Yes, so eventually the unvaccinated will be the at-risk population, same as for any illness. The wilfully unvaccinated should feature how prominently in our future border closures?

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

With the present mentality W.A. will NEVER open again - and that is both bull**** and intolerable.

Any aircrew subject to the WA hotel quarantine system can expect to be treated little better than a criminal - orders barked at you, little common courtesy, and seemingly no awareness that air transport might actually be of benefit to WA.

Since that’s their attitude, as far as I’m concerned, any returning WA residents should only be allowed to re-enter Australia through Perth, and not via any of the eastern states. And when international aircrew start bring vaccine supplies into the country, WA can be last cab off the rank to receive them.

(and yeah, I know this is divisive & unhelpful etc, but right now I don’t care - just a bit fed up with the arrogant smug attitude)

[WingNut60]

Federally at some stage the govt gotta say "enough", Australia is one country and must look to move forward as one.

Maybe the removal of additional funding to states who don't want to "move forward as one" would give pause for thought?
Don't have the answer but at some stage a tipping point has to be reached where the good of Australia has to override the perception/whim of individual state and territory leaders.

With the present mentality W.A. will NEVER open again - and that is both bull**** and intolerable.

If ScoMo thought he could get away with that he'd have done it by now.
His government was elected with a two seat majority, lost that majority for a while, but now has it back.

He would be on a flogging to nothing if he was to further tread on the toes of three (of six) Labor states while pushing a federalist wheelbarrow over closed borders.
He tried it for a while by backing Clive Palmer's High Court challenge but someone must have had a whisper in his ear.

[Vag277]

In 2018-19, Western Australia's gross state product was A$260.6 billion (14% of Australia's GDP), making it the nation's most productive state with a GSP per capita of A$100,367 (compared with the national average of A$74,605).

Perhaps the less productive states should pay attention. In 1933, 2/3 of the voting population voted in favour of secession. Only the pommy government at the time stopped it from happening.

[goodonyamate]

And don’t think that the vaccine will mean borders open to those who are vaccinated in a vaccine passport (yellow fever style).
Now gaining awareness mainstream but the vaccine doesn’t appear to stop you catching and spreading it. Rather it stops YOU getting sick but you might still be able to spread it all the same.

very true, however once everyone who is not medically unable has had the vaccine, then it should be free for all. The world could do with a fee less anti vaxxers who continue to sprout their hours of research from YouTube whilst on the ****ter.

anti vax = no rights as far as I’m concerned.

[compressor stall]

very true, however once everyone who is not medically unable has had the vaccine, then it should be free for all. The world could do with a fee less anti vaxxers who continue to sprout their hours of research from YouTube whilst on the ****ter.

anti vax = no rights as far as I’m concerned.
Yes for clarity - I should have mentioned they prob won’t open until such time that a pre determined percentage of the population has been vaccinated. (I wasn’t intending to consider the scourge of anti vaxers)
That will be the next political football “war” - determining that percentage. Cue opposition politicians with nothing to lose saying the number is 25% below the figure determined by the relevant CMO.

[Transition Layer]

Any country who believes they can eliminate the virus before a vaccine is rolled out is displaying nothing but sheer arrogance. We aren’t better than anyone else, we’ve been lucky and have plenty of things working in our favour like low population density, geographical isolation and lots of sunshine with an outdoor based lifestyle.

If you want to see arrogance, look at the WA Premier, who thinks he is a hero and is absolutely brutal in following his hard border policy for two reasons:

(1) It keeps the mining companies happy and making money. He knows where his bread is buttered!
(2) It’s popular with the public narrative of “screw everyone over East”. Not to mention that plenty of the population are employed directly or indirectly in mining (see point 1).

Let’s start tackling it as one country, enough of this state by state nonsense!

[Australopithecus]

The current thinking from Anthony Fauci is that in America approx 85% vaccination rate is required. Different population densities and cultural behaviour would change that, but I don’t know if anyone can say by how much

[DanV2]

Just in: South Australia imposing "hard border" with NSW excluding regional border towns and returning SA residents (which will be undergoing mandatory self-isolation with regular police checks).

IMO, I wonder how long will it be before returning SA residents' "mandatory self isolation" becomes "mandatory hotel isolation at own expense" in SA.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-31/sa-border-restrictions-in-response-to-nsw-coronavirus-outbreak/13023328

[brokenagain]

Covid: How close is the light at the end of the tunnel? (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55280701)

This article from the BBC from earlier this month makes a valid point regarding the amount of people that need to be vaccinated, and why the impetus is on vaccinating the elderly first.

“There are 12 million over-65s (in the UK). Once significant numbers are vaccinated, the risk of the NHS being overwhelmed disappears and the high number of excess deaths being seen across the population dwindles.How long will that take? Well, GPs managed to vaccinate the over-65 population against flu in a little over two months this autumn - 77% came forward for the jab”.

[non_state_actor]

About time jobkeeper was turned off so this border madness can end. None of this would be ocurring if the States actually had to pay for it.

[Australopithecus]

Just out of curiosity...if the borders were open but infections still simmering along at a low rate what fraction of the usual traffic do you think would exist? Enough to sell paying loads, or would people behave rationally do you think?

[Potsie Weber]

Just out of curiosity...if the borders were open but infections still simmering along at a low rate what fraction of the usual traffic do you think would exist? Enough to sell paying loads, or would people behave rationally do you think?

Exactly how do you keep infections simmering along at a low rate without lockdowns or severely restricting people’s movements?

[SOPS]

Any country who believes they can eliminate the virus before a vaccine is rolled out is displaying nothing but sheer arrogance. We aren’t better than anyone else, we’ve been lucky and have plenty of things working in our favour like low population density, geographical isolation and lots of sunshine with an outdoor based lifestyle.

If you want to see arrogance, look at the WA Premier, who thinks he is a hero and is absolutely brutal in following his hard border policy for two reasons:

(1) It keeps the mining companies happy and making money. He knows where his bread is buttered!
(2) It’s popular with the public narrative of “screw everyone over East”. Not to mention that plenty of the population are employed directly or indirectly in mining (see point 1).

Let’s start tackling it as one country, enough of this state by state nonsense!

90 percent of West Australians think he is a hero. All those that work in mining do. All those pilots that have kept flying aircraft to mine site all year do. All the people in WA that have a fairly normal life do. I fail to see your pint.

On another note.. I think WA’s hard border will be up again within the next 24 hours.

[myshoutcaptain]

All those pilots that have kept flying aircraft to mine site all year do.

Except if you’re in mainline you’re still sent on flights that attract an isolation requirement on return to WA rather than having other bases operate the service saving the isolation requirements and giving more work around. VA have taken off all WA crew.

[Transition Layer]

90 percent of West Australians think he is a hero. All those that work in mining do. All those pilots that have kept flying aircraft to mine site all year do. All the people in WA that have a fairly normal life do. I fail to see your pint.

On another note.. I think WA’s hard border will be up again within the next 24 hours.

He hasn’t managed the situation through any skill or
expertise, he’s actually made the easiest of decisions by simply throwing up a fence. He’s also made some slip ups along the way, deviating from the “medical advice” line and mentioning things like people going on holidays from WA spending their money “over east” instead of in WA.

He could also eliminate the road toll tomorrow if he banned cars, but what good would that do?

[Potsie Weber]

He hasn’t managed the situation through any skill or
expertise, he’s actually made the easiest of decisions by simply throwing up a fence. He’s also made some slip ups along the way, deviating from the “medical advice” line and mentioning things like people going on holidays from WA spending their money “over east” instead of in WA.

He could also eliminate the road toll tomorrow if he banned cars, but what good would that do?

Comparing cars/road toll to COVID Is stupid. What’s your solution?

[Turnleft080]

Time to roll out these 15min test kits. Test the test kits. Get 20 people 10 already covid positive and 10 that are not and check the accuracy.
If all 10 positives are accurate and the other 10 are negative as per the real covid test then impliment these immediately.
All the negatives fly on the day. Even if it means arriving at the airport much earlier do this test and if
all good everyone in that pressurised tube is covid free keeping borders OPEN.

[Australopithecus]

Exactly how do you keep infections simmering along at a low rate without lockdowns or severely restricting people’s movements?

You don’t, obviously. I am always bemused at pilots clamouring for open borders as though that would restore the loads and the industry to normal. From the start of modern pandemics aviation has always spread the problem. More aviation won't fix that.

[Australopithecus]

Time to roll out these 15min test kits. Test the test kits. Get 20 people 10 already covid positive and 10 that are not and check the accuracy.
If all 10 positives are accurate and the other 10 are negative as per the real covid test then impliment these immediately.
All the negatives fly on the day. Even if it means arriving at the airport much earlier do this test and if
all good everyone in that pressurised tube is covid free keeping borders OPEN.

But given the incubation period travellers would still have to quarantine which would kill the demand anyway. Its not like coming to the Gold Coast is that compelling in the first place.

[dr dre]

Exactly how do you keep infections simmering along at a low rate without lockdowns or severely restricting people’s movements?

If Gladys had gone hard just prior to Christmas ala what Steven Marshall did in SA in November Sydney could’ve been enjoying a Covid free NYE. Instead she went for a half assed approach, concentrating on the Northern Beaches whilst the virus is now all over the city and no mask mandate. And they’re letting NYE fireworks and the cricket go ahead??? Insanity, I’d like to find out who will profit from those events and how they’re connected to the NSW Liberals.

Say what you will about the Victorian government they’ve gone for mandatory masks indoors, capacity restrictions and tighter borders less than 24hrs after the cases were announced, which gives me more confidence they’ll remain on top of the outbreak than Gladys will.

You don’t, obviously. I am always bemused at pilots clamouring for open borders as though that would restore the loads and the industry to normal.

100,000 aviation jobs lost in the US this year without a single US state border closure.

[Transition Layer]

Comparing cars/road toll to COVID Is stupid. What’s your solution?
You’re quite right. We’ve all got much more chance of dying in a car accident!

[dr dre]

You’re quite right. We’ve all got much more chance of dying in a car accident!

Nope, USA 2019 road toll 35,000, 2020 USA Covid deaths 350,000. UK 2019 road toll 1900, Covid toll 69,000.

That’s what happens if the virus is left to run around unchecked, and don’t forget those places have had some mask mandates and restrictions in place.

[Transition Layer]

Nope, USA 2019 road toll 35,000, 2020 USA Covid deaths 350,000. UK 2019 road toll 1900, Covid toll 69,000.

That’s what happens if the virus is left to run around unchecked, and don’t forget those places have had some mask mandates and restrictions in place.
I’ll rephrase. If you’re in good health, not overweight, and under 80, the car accident would surely be a more likely cause of death.

I’m not advocating for “letting it rip”, just a common sense national based approach. Take the power away from the State Premiers. Define a hotspot, define a cluster. Allow people to book holidays and plan to see relatives with some sort of confidence. The current situation in Australia is getting ridiculous.

[Potsie Weber]

I’ll rephrase. If you’re in good health, not overweight, and under 80, the car accident would surely be a more likely cause of death.

I’m not advocating for “letting it rip”, just a common sense national based approach. Take the power away from the State Premiers. Define a hotspot, define a cluster. Allow people to book holidays and plan to see relatives with some sort of confidence. The current situation in Australia is getting ridiculous.

So now you want to change the constitution?

The enemy in containing the virus is the people, not the government. If more people applied a bit more common sense and a bit more caution, then the virus could probably be managed. Unfortunately that’s not happening and enforced restrictions are required.

[GaryGnu]

So now you want to change the constitution?

Yep, with the honourable exception of NSW, the collective responses of all state governments to COVID have amply demonstrated that jurisdictions with such parochial concerns should be nowhere near the levers of executive power. Get rid of all of them.

Along with that, I agree with Transition Layer

I’m not advocating for “letting it rip”, just a common sense national based approach. Take the power away from the State Premiers. Define a hotspot, define a cluster. Allow people to book holidays and plan to see relatives with some sort of confidence.

The national government that pays the bills should get to make the decisions.

[jrfsp]

Or how about Gladys should have nipped this in the bud al la SA....but no.....now the country's aviation sector is up **** creek again with ever increasing border closures when the country was so so close to getting fully open

[Green.Dot]

WA-VIC GONE.

F*^k you COVID and the horse you rode in on.

[wheels_down]

The fate of many lies with Miss P. If she puts up her walls again then it’s Domestic at a standstill until March. VIC <=> QLD corridor keeping many aviation workers away from standowns.

[Buster Hyman]

So now you want to change the constitution?
When Betty Windsor finally 'kicks the Corgi', there'll be a renewed push for a Republic. If the Pro Republicans move to centralise power away from the States, then they'll probably get over the line. Especially after the way these clowns have descended their responses into farce.

[compressor stall]

In 2018-19, Western Australia's gross state product was A$260.6 billion (14% of Australia's GDP)



If you divide 100 by the 6 states and NT (ignoring the ACT) you get 14. So the percentage of GSP of the Australian economy is exactly average.

You've chosen to look at the resident population to say it's above average GSP per capita. What about GSP per sq km? Then it's below average as it should be 33% as it occupies 1/3 of the area of the country?

[The The]

Was hoping 2021 might be looking good at least domestically. With the current outbreaks and a more contagious strain spreading worldwide, I think we can pretty much write-off at least the first 6mths of 2021.

[blubak]

Or how about Gladys should have nipped this in the bud al la SA....but no.....now the country's aviation sector is up **** creek again with ever increasing border closures when the country was so so close to getting fully open
How many times & by how many experts has she been told to make masks mandatory,i really cant work out what her problem us in doing so,the reaction she is getting from other states is because of her seemingly opposition to mandating them,its not a big deal,ffs just wear 1.

[Turnleft080]

And don’t think that the vaccine will mean borders open to those who are vaccinated in a vaccine passport (yellow fever style).
Now gaining awareness mainstream but the vaccine doesn’t appear to stop you catching and spreading it. Rather it stops YOU getting sick but you might still be able to spread it all the same.

So another words vitamin D and zinc do the same thing as a vaccine as I was ridiculed for the last 9 months. The only diff one might give you
side effects the other doesn't. D and zinc have been tested for thousands of years the other for 8 weeks.
Sorry, how foolish of me, where in a pandemic someone has to make money.

[Ragnor]

I’m a fan of Sco mo, now not so sure. still stalling until March to roll this vaccine out it’s time to lead the country approve it get it out have ppl vaccinated. Actually what’s the point no vaccine is 100% effective as long there is one persons with covid that state will be locked out. 2021 is going to be worse than 2020 ppl.

[dr dre]

Was hoping 2021 might be looking good at least domestically. With the current outbreaks and a more contagious strain spreading worldwide, I think we can pretty much write-off at least the first 6mths of 2021.

You can write it off until the level of vaccination is sufficient. The current plan has this for October 2021. I’d be lobbying the federal government for a faster rollout. The UK are aiming to get to their critical level by Northern spring:

Second vaccine clears path out of pandemic by Spring - UK's Hancock (Health Secretary) (https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-britain-vaccine-hanco/second-vaccine-clears-path-out-of-pandemic-by-spring-uks-hancock-idUSKBN2940MW)

[dr dre]

So another words vitamin D and zinc do the same thing as a vaccine as I was ridiculed for the last 9 months. The only diff one might give you
side effects the other doesn't. D and zinc have been tested for thousands of years the other for 8 weeks.
Sorry, how foolish of me, where in a pandemic someone has to make money.

Oh FFS the last thing we need at this time is this quackery. Just get the jab and end it.

[Turnleft080]

Oh FFS the last thing we need at this time is this quackery. Just get the jab and end it.
Gladly take it if you can prove it won't effect any other part of the human body long term and I would have more confidence if the
companies can provide liability. They don't, so what does that mean they don't trust their own product.

[Ragnor]

Your choice Turnleft don’t take it completely up to you. Just be prepared to not be able to travel interstate or international if you’re a pilot well maybe look for another career. Because the federal and state governments will require some kind of vaccination moving forward to enter Australia and move within.

[601]

If the Pro Republicans move to centralise power away from the States,
Please enlighten all of us on how that might occur?

[dr dre]

If you guys think we’re going to have a major constitutional rewrite to remove power away from the states to close borders in a health emergency forget it. It’s never going to happen. The High Court has ruled states have these powers and it is constitutionally legal. Australia has a very poor record of approving referendums, only 8 of the 44 referendum questions posed to the Australian people have been approved and generally for minimalist changes that are accepted by both sides of politics.

The truth is the border restrictions are very popular with the general public. All premiers who institute them have been or will be re-elected. Keeping the virus out has probably allowed more work in hospitality than stand downs in aviation. Sydney’s hospitality would’ve been crushed on NYE despite Gladys’s attempt at an open economy.

The way to get around this is to remove the reason for the health emergency in the first place. One, quarantine in remote areas to reduce capital city spread (this latest NSW/Vic outbreak was spread from one mystery traveller on the northern beaches) and then expedite the rollout of the vaccine to allow a herd immunity to be in place within a few months like the UK are doing. Both of which should be done by the Federal Government which for the most part has been MIA.

[Buster Hyman]

Please enlighten all of us on how that might occur?
Probably through a process of deliberation, consultation and debate. Seemed to work in 1901.:rolleyes:

[WingNut60]

If you guys think we’re going to have a major constitutional rewrite to remove power away from the states to close borders in a health emergency forget it. It’s never going to happen. ..........
Yep. I'd like to know which four of the six states would be voting in favour to get that one past.

[galdian]

Removal/amendment of state powers is a debate for the future.

Right now I need the Feds to have the "big picture" for Australia and not get bogged down in the political power plays of individual states/territories.

The Feds are dolling out a ****load of extra $$, I'd like those $$ to be allocated to the states/territories who can work with the Feds for the "big picture".

Those leaders who can't - or won't - are free to do so, I'm sure losing the $$ would not be a concern to their clear conscience.
Whether or not their constituents/business leaders/community leaders et al would agree worth nothing as compared to the leaders clear conscience - be interesting to see how THAT panned out.

I don't think it's unfair for funds to be allocated where they will benefit Australia the best overall.

[Turnleft080]

Just like the price of petrol goes up overnight and takes 3 weeks to come down.
Eight cases yesterday all borders close. ZERO cases in VIC today borders remain closed for 3 weeks if it stays at zero.

[GaryGnu]

dr dre no one suggesting constitutional reform seriously suggests that it could be done quickly enough to affect the current COVID situation. Nor do they think it could be done easily, as both you and Wingnut point out.

I don't think that means we shouldn't try.

State governments represent provincial jurisdictions separated by lines on a map that are in no way reflective of the way people live their increasingly interconnected lives. State borders were probably made irrelevant by mass production of the personal motor vehicle. That irrelevance is accentuated by widespread availability of air transit.



Both of which should be done by the Federal Government which for the most part has been MIA.


While I may not agree with your prescription for dealing with COVID, I do agree that crises of this magnitude are best dealt with by Federal/National Governments.

Perhaps a Federal/National Government deprived of the ability to devolve responsibility, power and blame to non-existent State Governments would be more likely to step up and solve the next COVID scale problem that comes along.

[Green.Dot]

Just like the price of petrol goes up overnight and takes 3 weeks to come down.
Eight cases yesterday all borders close. ZERO cases in VIC today borders remain closed for 3 weeks if it stays at zero.

As I said yesterday 10 cases might as well be 1000 when it comes to the knock on effects in aviation

[brokenagain]

Another 18 today for Vic.

5 actually, 3 of which are returned overseas travellers already in quarantine.

[dr dre]

.

Perhaps a Federal/National Government deprived of the ability to devolve responsibility, power and blame to non-existent State Governments would be more likely to step up and solve the next COVID scale problem that comes along.

Are you saying taking over responsibility for immigration and quarantine as they are constitutionally obligated to and making the expedited rollout of this vaccine their number one priority over the next few months are things the current Federal Government can only do if you remove any other body they can lay blame on and delegate responsibility to, until there’s no one left to blame but themselves?

Sounds like a pretty pathetic government. You could probably apply the things you said about states being irrelevant in a time of mass air travel, digital communication and globalisation to the nation state as well.

I keep hearing thats it’s time for Australia to become one, to act as one instead of 8 divided entities. If that’s the case then the one who should be putting in place that idea of Australia acting as one is the leader of Australia. Where is he? It’s well past time he stepped up and applied some real leadership skills. But as the bushfires showed he’s got no idea how to lead in a crisis and just delegates responsibility to others. Scotty from Marketing for real. It’s like every lesson of airline command training is being thrown out the window.

C’mon, act as a leader, take responsibility for international quarantine and get this vaccine here ASAP!

[Buster Hyman]

I keep hearing thats it’s time for Australia to become one, to act as one instead of 8 divided entities. If that’s the case then the one who should be putting in place that idea of Australia acting as one is the leader of Australia.
You've answered your own question. He doesn't have the authority to arbitrarily dissolve State powers hence why you are 'hearing things'.

But as the bushfires showed he’s got no idea how to lead in a crisis and just delegates responsibility to others.
State responsibility. No need for the PM to 'take command' when the established responsibilities are known to, well, most people.

C’mon, act as a leader, take responsibility for international quarantine and get this vaccine here ASAP!
Well, I guess that's one delegation he could take back. Shouldn't take long to establish all the networks & responsible people to enact this after they take it back from the States.

[Australopithecus]

From The Age:

Morrison rejects 'very dangerous' rush to approve vaccineBy Nick BonyhadyThe Prime Minister and Chief Medical Officer have rejected calls to rush through approvals for a coronavirus vaccine.

Scott Morrison and Professor Paul Kelly said at a press conference on New Year’s Day that the situation in Australia was different to overseas because there were far fewer cases of coronavirus here, giving the Therapeutic Goods Administration time to assess each vaccine thoroughly for safety and effectiveness.

"With a vaccine you don't rush to failure, that would be very dangerous to Australians,” Mr Morrison said.

Those who suggested otherwise, the Prime Minister said, were "naive".

While the country waits for a vaccine, Professor Kelly said the government had pushed Victoria to step up its coronavirus testing in conversations between health ministers and medical officers.

Countries such as the US and UK that have started vaccinating people have done so with emergency approval of the vaccine, not full approval as with other vaccines.”

I cannot believe this. The normal full licence process takes years. The emergency use authorisations issued by every other western nation of note uses the same strict oversight guidelines and processes, just with the data available today. If we wait until the data set is large enough to give comfort to some bureaucrats then we really won't have an industry left. Morrison is a smirking lightweight who only recognises leadership so that he can stab it in the back.

[dr dre]

[h2][size=13px]I cannot believe this. The normal full licence process takes years. The emergency use authorisations issued by every other western nation of note uses the same strict oversight guidelines and processes, just with the data available today. If we wait until the data set is large enough to give comfort to some bureaucrats then we really won't have an industry left. Morrison is a smirking lightweight who only recognises leadership so that he can stab it in the back.

Maybe if Airlines offered free freight transport of the vaccine into and around Australia in exchange for the Federal Government expediting the rollout of it? It's pretty ridiculous for Greg Hunt to say implementing the vaccine earlier would be "irresponsible and reckless" considering the states are not willing to allow any outbreaks until herd immunity is reached. It seems to me as if the Feds are going to play politics as a FU to the states just to spite them.

So the question then asked is, if the Federal government are ending jobkeeper in March but aren't going to have enough herd immunity to allow an easing of restrictions until October, what happens in the intervening 7 months? Does it make Australians desperate and angry only to have it resolved and the Federal government's pandemic response declared a success immediately before the next Federal Election, which can be called at any time from August 2021 to September 2022?

Labor calls for Australia's Covid vaccine rollout to be accelerated (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/23/labor-calls-for-australias-covid-vaccine-rollout-to-be-accelerated)

[Mach E Avelli]

Ah, but we from the Land Down Under always know more than everyone else. Proof of this can be found in our aviation legislation, which far exceeds world's best practice.
So far Australia has fared very well, thanks mainly to being an island and having a relatively compliant population. But if we are last in the world to come out of restrictions we will pay a terrible economic price.
For once I am firmly on the side of the Opposition - let's bloody DO IT and get the jabs asap.

[stickshaken]

Gladly take it if you can prove it won't effect any other part of the human body long term and I would have more confidence if the
companies can provide liability. They don't, so what does that mean they don't trust their own product.

Turnleft080 I agree with you. At this point nobody can indicate what the long term side affects will be, especially the medical profession.

There is a lot of money to be made with this vaccine and there are certainly many big stakes at risk. Maybe some research into which countries have to most to gain, and have controlling interests in these drug companies may raise several eyebrows.

For flight crew, you’d be an absolute fool to prematurely take an unknown substance such as this vaccine without considering what effect that could have on your medical down the track, or worse if an adverse reaction occurs on the flight deck with several hundred or so passengers sitting behind you.
I wonder what casa thinks of this, and what effect this has on your loss of license / life insurance policies.
Time will tell.

[Australopithecus]

Do some non-social media research on vaccine side effects and the timelines thereof. Let’s assume that its a binary choice: taking the vaccine before a medical renewal or getting covid-19. Which do you think would be worse by a factor of a million? That’s right. The covid-19 disease.

Some airlines provide critical thinking skills development courses. Just saying...

[dr dre]

Do some non-social media research on vaccine side effects and the timelines thereof. Let’s assume that its a binary choice: taking the vaccine before a medical renewal or getting covid-19. Which do you think would be worse by a factor of a million? That’s right. The covid-19 disease.

Some airlines provide critical thinking skills development courses. Just saying...

This is what worries me. If there's even a small amount of anti-vaxxerism in an industry that needs this vaccine can you imagine the level of resistance to take the vaccine in the general public? It may not even be over before year's end if there's this level of unscientific rubbish being spread around to the point where the required immunity level isn't reached on schedule?

[TBM-Legend]

Fast forward ten or so years:

Ad appears - "If you had a CV19 vaccination in 2021 please contact Smith, Smith and Smith Attorneys at Law and join the millions in our Class Action!"

[Australopithecus]

And if you didn’t, and now have permanent organ damage, do you get to sue some w@nker on social media? How about if you’re dead? Or how about if someone else is living in your fine house because you took a permanent 60% pay cut when your airline folded? FFS.

[kingRB]

For flight crew, you’d be an absolute fool to prematurely take an unknown substance such as this vaccine without considering what effect that could have on your medical down the track, or worse if an adverse reaction occurs on the flight deck with several hundred or so passengers sitting behind you.
I wonder what casa thinks of this, and what effect this has on your loss of license / life insurance policies.
Time will tell.

That's why I wouldn't go anywhere near it until AVMED and CASA approves it for flight crew. I believe the FAA have already in the US. Hopefully puts some responsibility back on the regulator. I won't be holding my breath though.

Do some non-social media research on vaccine side effects and the timelines thereof. Let’s assume that its a binary choice: taking the vaccine before a medical renewal or getting covid-19. Which do you think would be worse by a factor of a million? That’s right. The covid-19 disease.

Some airlines provide critical thinking skills development courses. Just saying...

That non social media research as you put it probably would mean you are aware that many people that contract it may not even have symptoms. Then develop their own immunity to it, no difference to the result of a vaccine. But that's worse by a factor of a million is it?

[dr dre]

That's why I wouldn't go anywhere near it until AVMED and CASA approves it for flight crew. I believe the FAA have already in the US. Hopefully puts some responsibility back on the regulator. I won't be holding my breath though.

CASA (on it's website) doesn't specifically approve any vaccine, the only info about vaccines is in the medication recommendations section where they say wait 24hrs post vaccination until operating. If the FAA already have approved it, and the TGA are expected to in January, I don't see why CASA will object.

[neville_nobody]

So the question then asked is, if the Federal government are ending jobkeeper in March but aren't going to have enough herd immunity to allow an easing of restrictions until October, what happens in the intervening 7 months?

Here's a thought. In those intervening 7 months the State governments may actually have to be economically responsible for once.

Does it make Australians desperate and angry only to have it resolved and the Federal government's pandemic response declared a success immediately before the next Federal Election, which can be called at any time from August 2021 to September 2022?

The entire federal government response has been basically destroyed by State Policies. The only thing that will get the State's attention will be some mass redundancies and a few bankruptcies. Unfortunately I fear that will come from the Aviation Sector.

[JustinHeywood]

....That's why I wouldn't go anywhere near it [Covid vaccine] until AVMED and CASA approves it for flight crew.?

Good grief.
Please give CASA a ring with your concerns and let us know how you go.

[Australopithecus]

That's why I wouldn't go anywhere near it until AVMED and CASA approves it for flight crew. I believe the FAA have already in the US. Hopefully puts some responsibility back on the regulator. I won't be holding my breath though.



That non social media research as you put it probably would mean you are aware that many people that contract it may not even have symptoms. Then develop their own immunity to it, no difference to the result of a vaccine. But that's worse by a factor of a million is it?

Why no it isn’t in fact. I was taking poetic licence. In actual fact Covid-19 is much worse than that. I will save you the time: if infected, with any of the current known mutations you have an approximately 2% chance of dying, and an approximately 20% chance of having a lengthy long-covid illness or permanent disability. If you get the vaccine you have a demonstrated zero chance of dying, and a possibility of an easily treated allergic reaction approximately 1 in 2 million times.

Aviation is never coming back without a wide scale vaccination programme, and I would not be surprised to see them made mandatory by employers, governments and health care providers. .

[kingRB]

Why no it isn’t in fact. I was taking poetic licence. In actual fact Covid-19 is much worse than that. I will save you the time: if infected, with any of the current known mutations you have an approximately 2% chance of dying, and an approximately 20% chance of having a lengthy long-covid illness or permanent disability.


you'll need to provide some citations there if you want to state it as fact- otherwise i'll just dismiss it as the very "social media research" BS that you were on about in your original post, and typical hyperbole with this subject. As far as I am aware there is precisely zero peer reviewed studies or widespread research being conducted on "lengthy long-covid illness or permanent disability", because there is nothing new or unique about it. It has no greater risk factor of lasting ongoing symptoms that differs at all to previous SARS Coronavirus or Influenza.

[De_flieger]

you'll need to provide some citations there if you want to state it as fact- otherwise i'll just dismiss it as the very "social media research" BS that you were on about in your original post, and typical hyperbole with this subject. As far as I am aware there is precisely zero peer reviewed studies or widespread research being conducted on "lengthy long-covid illness or permanent disability", because there is nothing new or unique about it. It has no greater risk factor of lasting ongoing symptoms that differs at all to previous SARS Coronavirus or Influenza.

Those statements are incorrect.

There are numerous peer reviewed studies completed or being done into the long-term health effects of coronavirus due to the numbers of people experiencing long term symptoms or organ damage. You can read about one study that was done at St Vincents Hospital (Sydney) here: Australian study finds COVID-19 'long haulers' suffer symptoms months after coronavirus infection (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-23/long-term-effects-of-covid-study-in-medical-journal/13007498) or one that was done in the UK here: Southmead Hospital publishes pioneering research on long term effects of coronavirus (https://www.nbt.nhs.uk/about-us/news-media/latest-news/southmead-hospital-publishes-pioneering-research-long-term-effects-coronavirus). There are many others out there, I don't want to spam you or the message board with links, but there is a lot of research being done in hospitals in many different countries all over the world including Australia and the USA on this exact topic, these results can be found relatively easily via Google taking you to their publishers or research organisations.

[chookcooker]

Fast forward ten or so years:

Ad appears - "If you had a CV19 vaccination in 2021 please contact Smith, Smith and Smith Attorneys at Law and join the millions in our Class Action!"
Never go full retard

[JJ 789]

Why no it isn’t in fact. I was taking poetic licence. In actual fact Covid-19 is much worse than that. I will save you the time: if infected, with any of the current known mutations you have an approximately 2% chance of dying, and an approximately 20% chance of having a lengthy long-covid illness or permanent disability. If you get the vaccine you have a demonstrated zero chance of dying, and a possibility of an easily treated allergic reaction approximately 1 in 2 million times.

Aviation is never coming back without a wide scale vaccination programme, and I would not be surprised to see them made mandatory by employers, governments and health care providers. .

Actually go check your figures again on the CDC website. I as a 33 year old have a miniscule chance of dying if I contract COVID. Look at the average age of death for COVID-19. It's not even a high consequence infectious disease (downgraded in the UK back in March).
Also while you're at it, have a look at the figures for the Pfizer vaccine in the UK. Almost 3% of people who have received it have had some sort of reaction / side effect which had them seeking medical attention, missing work etc.
So yeah, give me COVID thanks :)

[kingRB]

Those statements are incorrect.

There are numerous peer reviewed studies completed or being done into the long-term health effects of coronavirus due to the numbers of people experiencing long term symptoms or organ damage. You can read about one study that was done at St Vincents Hospital (Sydney) here: Australian study finds COVID-19 'long haulers' suffer symptoms months after coronavirus infection (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-23/long-term-effects-of-covid-study-in-medical-journal/13007498) or one that was done in the UK here: Southmead Hospital publishes pioneering research on long term effects of coronavirus (https://www.nbt.nhs.uk/about-us/news-media/latest-news/southmead-hospital-publishes-pioneering-research-long-term-effects-coronavirus). There are many others out there, I don't want to spam you or the message board with links, but there is a lot of research being done in hospitals in many different countries all over the world including Australia and the USA on this exact topic, these results can be found relatively easily via Google taking you to their publishers or research organisations.

So like I said, nothing unique or new. An inference was made that Covid 19 has statistical percentage of permanent disability and ongoing effect. If there was any basis to that claim it would be being looked into as a matter of urgency. It's not.

[De_flieger]

So like I said, nothing unique or new. An inference was made that Covid 19 has statistical percentage of permanent disability and ongoing effect. If there was any basis to that claim it would be being looked into as a matter of urgency. It's not.

No, not at all. I don't know how you drew that conclusion from what I wrote. As the links I posted showed, and there are many other ongoing research projects along these lines in Australia and elsewhere, there is a basis to that claim regarding long term effects, and it is being looked at as a matter of urgency. One of the studies found that among hospitalised patients, approximately three quarters of them were suffering long term effects three months later. Another in Australia found 40% of those infected (not necessarily hospitalised) were still experiencing symptoms at the approximate three month mark. It is an active and ongoing field of research, despite what you say.

[currawong]

Interesting the assumption that federal control of the situation would be any different, namely better, than what we have already.

Could go either way....

[kingRB]

No, not at all. I don't know how you drew that conclusion from what I wrote.

The claim was made by Australopithecus. I believe the figure stated was 20% of infections result in some form of permanent disability.

As the links I posted showed, and there are many other ongoing research projects along these lines in Australia and elsewhere, there is a basis to that claim regarding long term effects, and it is being looked at as a matter of urgency.
One of the studies found that among hospitalised patients, approximately three quarters of them were suffering long term effects three months later. Another in Australia found 40% of those infected (not necessarily hospitalised) were still experiencing symptoms at the approximate three month mark. It is an active and ongoing field of research, despite what you say.

I never said there wasn't possible long term effects from it. What I said was there is absolute zero difference in its ongoing effects where reported, and any other known respiratory virus. Certainly none that is causing any adverse effects we haven't seen before. The links you posted show nothing more than acknowledgement of that fact :
"This research helps to describe what many coronavirus patients have been telling us: they are still breathless, tired, and not sleeping well months after admission. Reassuringly, however, abnormalities on X-rays and breathing tests are rare in this group. Further work in the DISCOVER project will help us to understand why this is, and how we can help coronavirus sufferers."

[Australopithecus]

Actually go check your figures again on the CDC website. I as a 33 year old have a miniscule chance of dying if I contract COVID. Look at the average age of death for COVID-19. It's not even a high consequence infectious disease (downgraded in the UK back in March).
Also while you're at it, have a look at the figures for the Pfizer vaccine in the UK. Almost 3% of people who have received it have had some sort of reaction / side effect which had them seeking medical attention, missing work etc.
So yeah, give me COVID thanks :)

To be clear, I don’t care if you get vaccinated or not. . You will have skin in the game.I will not. Chances are you will be exactly in the vast group of your contemporaries that emerge free of lasting damage or even inconvenience. If not, well, you rolled the dice...

WRT to the side- effects of the Pfizer vaccine in the UK. Really? Examine the data and the commentary and then get back to me. The trial set was plenty large enough to reveal issues. They didn’t arise in the phase 3 trials, but they do in the twittersphere? Someone had better rewrite my statistical analysis texts then. Sore triceps and a short duration low grade fever are part of the standard reaction to vaccines.

[aussieflyboy]

Apparently there’s a large (and growing) group of crew boycotting all WA flying on Monday the 11th of January as an ‘incentive to change’ Mr McGowans random border closure policy.

I can’t imagine this being very legal in the industrial sense however I’m not too sure? I guess there may be a bout of the 1 day cold getting around. Could be interesting if the media get hold of the idea.

[Australopithecus]

In reply to King RB. :

I am not going to satisfy your demand for citations when you can search them yourself. Check the British Medical. journal, Lancet, and the New England Journal of Medicine . They are all free. If you lack a solid grounding in the life sciences, it won’t take you that much time and cross-referencing to get the gist. The elemental take-away is that in the tug-of-war between virus and vaccine, in the context of being able to retain a CASA, or any other, medical, there is a set of probabilities that reflects, mathematically, your comparative risk. Since the set of Covid-19 sufferers is 80 million ish, and the general CFR and Case long term effects are being quantified, the question then becomes what is the comparative risk of not being vaccinated. The younger you are, obviously, the more you can afford to entertain pig-ignorant superstition in the place of actual, you know-science. Go ahead...I would be keen to know if actual experience in the CASA regulatory environment is as forgiving and risk-rewarding as you obviously seem to think it would be.

Best of luck, and a safe and Happy New Year.

Oh by the way...I didn’t, in fact, claim 20% permanent disability. Read it again.

[WingNut60]

................as an ‘incentive to change’ Mr McGowans random border closure policy.


In what way are you seeing his policy as random?
He has closed every state and territory border at some stage when they have had active Covid cases.

I'm just not seeing random. Happy to be enlightened.

[Green.Dot]

Apparently there’s a large (and growing) group of crew boycotting all WA flying on Monday the 11th of January as an ‘incentive to change’ Mr McGowans random border closure policy.


Good luck with that.

McGowan didn’t bat an eyelid when a Billionaire launched a high court challenge against the WA Govt. The pilots won’t win any hearts of 90% of the WA population either.

[dr dre]

Good luck with that.

McGowan didn’t bat an eyelid when a Billionaire launched a high court challenge against the WA Govt. The pilots won’t win any hearts of 90% of the WA population either.

Agreed, I have no clue what this supposed action will achieve. At best a few FIFO shift changes are delayed by a day, and no one in any position of power even realises or cares that it happened.

At worst it hits the papers and those involved could face legal action for unauthorised organised industrial action, and be torn apart by the media. There’ll be no sympathy, every slur used against pilots who take any form of action (they’re all on $500k per year, they only work two days a week, flying is all automated anyway) will be spread all across the news and they’ll win no supporters.

There’s more diplomatic and constructive ways to deal with this.

[Ragnor]

I thought Dan had a solid rock plan for covid even employing a covid commander to oversee it. Hard border closure now they’re running for the hills in Victoria. You would think tho, after the last mess up they had they would be prepared but typical labour gov can’t prepare for anything this is why WA closes ASAP when one case occurs they can’t cope either.

Victoria testing centers close being un able to keep up that is madness at its best, they want ppl to get tested but can’t test ppl. What is Dan doing down there, nothing obviously!

[kingRB]

In reply to King RB. :

I am not going to satisfy your demand for citations when you can search them yourself. Check the British Medical. journal, Lancet, and the New England Journal of Medicine . They are all free. If you lack a solid grounding in the life sciences, it won’t take you that much time and cross-referencing to get the gist.

I don't need to go looking to find the evidence, I didn't make the claims. It's on you to substantiate what you said. It shouldn't be difficult if all the evidence is so apparent.


Oh by the way...I didn’t, in fact, claim 20% permanent disability. Read it again.

Didn't you? One of us has a reading comprehension problem then.
if infected, with any of the current known mutations you have an approximately 2% chance of dying, and an approximately 20% chance of having a lengthy long-covid illness or permanent disability.

[wheels_down]

Great work NSW throwing Vic under the bus. Masks now Gladys? Your about 3 weeks too late.

Vic was just unlucky. Could have been any state that got this one.

Go on, you take your annual leave whilst the poor folks of Victoria are suffering as a result of your arrogance.

[Green.Dot]

Less cases in NSW than Vic today. Talk about passing on a baton made of dynamite to a bunch of people who have just had f%€¥en enough.

Where was Annastacia in the relay race when you need her? :ugh:

Your contact tracing no doubt sh#ts all over Victoria but fcvk you Gladys for not mandating masks when we are now wearing them AGAIN under a dictator d!ck who will be relishing round 3 of this crap.

Rant complete. :}

[Ragnor]

So many angry at NSW, I told you all we are the best at handling this. As demonstrated we are single little country’s on one island no one wanting to learn or work with the virus. NSW could have show Vic the way.

Also let’s not forget the clusters Victoria residents started in Sydney back in May, June.

[SHVC]

Great work NSW throwing Vic under the bus. Masks now Gladys? Your about 3 weeks too late.



The arrogance! Victoria has had plenty of time to prepare they obviously have not. Covid is here for years to think otherwise is even more arrogant.

[Potsie Weber]

So maybe McClown’s shutting of the WA border to all NSW on Dec 19 wasn’t such a stupid idea?

[airdualbleedfault]

Hate to admit I was thinking the same thing Potsie

[myshoutcaptain]

So maybe McClown’s shutting of the WA border to all NSW on Dec 19 wasn’t such a stupid idea?

Retrospective isolation for crew backdated to anyone’s guess and just landing in a state other than WA constitutes entering that State even if you don’t leave the aircraft!.

No other crews have the restrictions McGowan has applied to WA crews but still expects FIFO and cargo to continue.

Whilst the population moves freely unabated the crews are locked at home.

[aussieflyboy]

Retrospective isolation for crew backdated to anyone’s guess and just landing in a state other than WA constitutes entering that State even if you don’t leave the aircraft!.

No other crews have the restrictions McGowan has applied to WA crews but still expects FIFO and cargo to continue.

Whilst the population moves freely unabated the crews are locked at home.

Our company has just about given up rostering crew to NSW and Vic from WA. The whole crew goes sick to avoid the 2 weeks quarantine.

[myshoutcaptain]

Our company has just about given up rostering crew to NSW and Vic from WA. The whole crew goes sick to avoid the 2 weeks quarantine.

About time Jayne and Alan had a chat and sorted it then.

You’d think Airline Pilot and Flight Attendant would classify as Transport and Logistics. Rolling testing like a Kenworth driver.

Maybe we should offload anything in the hold other than bags.

[Ragnor]

About time Jayne and Alan had a chat and sorted it then.

You’d think Airline Pilot and Flight Attendant would classify as Transport and Logistics. Rolling testing like a Kenworth driver.

Maybe we should offload anything in the hold other than bags.

Not sure what AJ and JH would achieve. I think the states would much prefer if all airlines didn't fly each premier does not give to hoots about QF, JQ, VA Rex etc for them it would be one less place they have to send resources to so they could use them on the border.

[Angle of Attack]

Why all the bickering? Who cares about states and their premiers, they are basically pawns on a chess board. Perth, Brisbane they will be next, it will get out regardless. The weakest link in this whole mess is the Hotel Quarantine System, every outbreak has come from failings in it. There needs to be a solution to quarantine overseas arrivals in remote locations away from population centres without workers mixing with the general population. Maybe I’m simplistic but this is where the weakest link is, why not fix it? While you import active cases of the virus into the middle of our Capital cities I see this Wash, Rinse, repeat continuing until early 2022. 2021 is going to be if anything worse than last year with this bunch of inert politicians around.

[Sunfish]

The weakest link is $#@#ing air transport!

[dr dre]

this is where the weakest link is, why not fix it?

Feds don’t want to spend the money. Hotels that would be usually full of international travellers are empty so cheaper to put returnees there and service those hotels with cheap migrant labour working two jobs to get by, than create temporary remote quarantine with a higher paid FIFO workforce.

[Dannyboy39]

Why all the bickering? Who cares about states and their premiers, they are basically pawns on a chess board. Perth, Brisbane they will be next, it will get out regardless. The weakest link in this whole mess is the Hotel Quarantine System, every outbreak has come from failings in it. There needs to be a solution to quarantine overseas arrivals in remote locations away from population centres without workers mixing with the general population. Maybe I’m simplistic but this is where the weakest link is, why not fix it? While you import active cases of the virus into the middle of our Capital cities I see this Wash, Rinse, repeat continuing until early 2022. 2021 is going to be if anything worse than last year with this bunch of inert politicians around.
Nauru maybe?

[blubak]

I thought Dan had a solid rock plan for covid even employing a covid commander to oversee it. Hard border closure now they’re running for the hills in Victoria. You would think tho, after the last mess up they had they would be prepared but typical labour gov can’t prepare for anything this is why WA closes ASAP when one case occurs they can’t cope either.

Victoria testing centers close being un able to keep up that is madness at its best, they want ppl to get tested but can’t test ppl. What is Dan doing down there, nothing obviously!
His plan involves mandatory wearing of masks,Gladys has been told by every authority in the country to do the same & now 3 weeks later,she decides to.
She doesnt want to stop people going to the cricket because it might inconvenience them,oh how nice of her.

[Ragnor]

His plan involves mandatory wearing of masks,Gladys has been told by every authority in the country to do the same & now 3 weeks later,she decides to.
She doesnt want to stop people going to the cricket because it might inconvenience them,oh how nice of her.

So because Dan makes ppl wear mask and locks them up for 111 days, he is doing a great job?

[murder most fowl]

How many sporting codes have continued this year with fans in attendance though other outbreaks? Its an outdoor venue with plenty of space and COVID plan in place.

[blubak]

So because Dan makes ppl wear mask and locks them up for 111 days, he is doing a great job?
Never disputed his stuff up with hotel quarantine but whether u like it or not(& i certainly didnt) he got a result.
Isnt the aim to keep the numbers as low as possible?,that it seems is what is in place now but the virus hasnt gone away so we need to all do everything possible to achieve that whether u vote lib or lab not really important right now.

[Green.Dot]

How many sporting codes have continued this year with fans in attendance though other outbreaks? Its an outdoor venue with plenty of space and COVID plan in place.

I can’t recall too many large crowds this year when there were known clusters in the community but please correct me if I am wrong.

Remember back in July when Perth Stadium was to host 22,000 and lots of reservations about it. That was when Perth was getting negligible community cases a day (maybe zero, I can’t find the data.)

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-crowd-at-optus-stadium-in-perth-causes-panic-a-huge-gamble/news-story/6d6888db76e979e684217c9175131b19

Meanwhile at the SCG fans are being asked to “cheer quietly”. Yeah that will work after a few schooners. Am I the only pessimist here? Great if they pull it off, but it will go down as one of the stupidest decisions in history if it fuels the fire.

https://www.reuters.com/article/cricket-test-aus-ind/shhhh-fans-urged-to-cheer-quietly-at-scg-amid-covid-outbreak-idINKBN2940EN

[NzCaptainAndrew]

With 10% of Israel's population already vaccinated, why is Australia lagging so far behind?

[Ragnor]

You make a very fine point Blubak.

Keep the numbers low that was the sim back in March NSW has been doing that everyone else seems eradication is the aim now. Never going to happen as long as international arrivals are coming business remain open and ppl move around.

Now we have 7 individual country’s on one island that have different ideas normality will never return.

[wheels_down]

With 10% of Israel's population already vaccinated, why is Australia lagging so far behind?
No Vaccine has got approval yet. All those countries are essentially going ahead regardless of approval for emergency use only. Essentially they are victims of their own incompetence.

We are lucky to have the ability here to cross check

[dr dre]

No Vaccine has got approval yet. All those countries are essentially going ahead regardless of approval for emergency use only. Essentially they are victims of their own incompetence.

We are lucky to have the ability here to cross check

No, they have an emergency use approval which was granted after full phase 3 trials for safety and effectiveness were completed.

The problem is the Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) is expected to grant full approval to one or more of the vaccines sometime this month, yet the federal government’s rollout plan isn’t starting until March and won’t be completed until October. All this time and they haven’t made a comprehensive plan for storage, transport, public education, testing sites, staff etc. They haven’t pumped as many resources into the TGA to expedite proper vaccine rollout. As other nations have shown it can be rolled out quickly, our government just don’t want to spend the money or something else.

Airlines should be lobbying them to help distribute it as quick as possible.

[lc_461]

There was an interview done by the QLD CHO I think that described the rollout as one of the biggest logistical exercises ever done. Australia is one of the most decentralised populations in the world. Don't forget some communities in regional Australia don't even have a hospital with doctors.. Israel couldn't be more than 1/20th of the land mass.
Traditionally government is not great at large projects (remember the census...). I know it is upsetting for those in aviation (myself included), but I'd rather them take an extra few weeks to sort out the logistics and supply chain and try and get it right. The alternative is an almost certain clusterf#ck. I think Australia also has a much better chance of higher community coverage and take up by going through the proper channels rather than emergency protocols.
You have to remember for lots of the public (especially WA and QLD where little to no effort is being put into social distancing anymore), the virus is not impacting life and they are skeptical as to why they should even bother with the vaccine.. There was an article for Singapore or Korea where only 50% said they would bother with the vaccine due to skepticism about the emergency protocols. That would be a worst case scenario here. The same thing happened at the height of the first wave with the Covidsafe app, now a white elephant. Govt only has once chance to get it right with the population, and I think in this case they are spot on.

[patty50]

If they don’t get vaccine messaging right they will find themselves with millions of people refusing it. Vast majority of people who don’t want ordinarily take vaccines and give them to their kids. How does rushing the rollout and approval alleviate their concerns.

Blocking interstate travel is fine if 5% refuse but if 70% refuse then what are you going to do? Will be hilarious when Alan’s only customers are bedwetting boomers.

[dr dre]

l Australia is one of the most decentralised populations in the world. Don't forget some communities in regional Australia don't even have a hospital with doctors.. Israel couldn't be more than 1/20th of the land mass.

Australia’s population is concentrated in several urban centres near the coast. We’re 86% urbanised, one of the world’s highest, so apart from some very sparse remote communities which will benefit from government funded vaccination programs it’ll actually be easier to vaccinate Australians.

If they don’t get vaccine messaging right they will find themselves with millions of people refusing it. Vast majority of people who don’t want ordinarily take vaccines and give them to their kids. How does rushing the rollout and approval alleviate their concerns.

We have no jab no play. That’s worked, and flu vaccine uptake was around 70% for 2020. Employers will make it mandatory, schools will make it mandatory, it’ll be mandatory to travel, the elderly and vulnerable will desire it. The vast majority of people aren’t anti-vaxxers, unless influential people with an agenda are allowed to perpetuate that message in the media.

[Ragnor]

Employers can enforce vaccinations re write of policy include covid vaccination. All of us here that work for QF or JQ have had Hep B, Measles, Rubella and chicken pox vaccinations these are all a requirements employment well it was for me anyway.

[WingNut60]

Employers can enforce vaccinations re write of policy include covid vaccination. All of us here that work for QF or JQ have had Hep B, Measles, Rubella and chicken pox vaccinations these are all a requirements employment well it was for me anyway.
And for international travel, as with other serious transmissible diseases, your protests may well be irrelevant if either the receiving or returning country requires proof of immunisation.
Commuting back and forth to Colombia a couple of years ago I was asked to produce my yellow card every time on return to Oz.
Same when travelling to or returning from Mozambique from ZAF.

Going back a long way, I also remember the mandatory shots for entry at Paya Lebar for those without a valid yellow card entry.
A small queue walking in from the Concorde only to be told to roll up their sleeves and being inoculated with an air blast.
I think that was for small pox.

[Ragnor]

Health Minister just announced that every Australian will have been able to receive the vaccine/Vaccines by October 2021. “The government will make available free and voluntary administration of the vaccine by October”

The rest will be left up to states and business if it will be mandatory for entry/employment I’m guessing.

[lucille]

It’s all about perception. I’ll bet that if the vaccine was for say Ebola and only 70% effective, there would be a 100% of the population queued up for a week in the blazing sun to get a jab. After all, 70% effective is still pretty good odds.

But for Covid? I sense a lot of pushback against getting vaccinated from otherwise sensible people. Clearly, they don’t believe it’s as “deadly” as has the mass hysteria would have it. And even more curious, this same cohort is more than happy with border closures and lockdowns and the loss of civil liberties to save their precious lives. Go figure.

When the time comes, it will be interesting to see just how many of my broader circle will actually volunteer to get the jab. I know that I will.

[patty50]

Again forcing people is easy when you only have relatively small numbers of people unvaccinated.

I know a large number of people in my personal and professional circles who have no desire to get it. Educated, intelligent people whose lives haven’t changed much aren’t too fussed. Most people (unlike pilots) can go get another job if their boss gets too uppity.

Scomo won’t stare down premiers reliant upon Commonwealth grants, how is he going to force 15 million Australians to take it with an election next year.

[Ragnor]

He said he won’t force anyone to get the jab, Gov is making it free and voluntary. Fed Gov will make entry to Australia mandatory tho so don’t travel abroad if you don’t want it.

As we all know states control their own border each state could require vaccination proof before entry if not just travel inside your own state for ever.

There are ways to make this voluntary uptake of it mandatory without making it mandatory from a fed gov perspective. Just be prepared not to be able to do a lot if you don’t take it.

[wheels_down]

I don’t think interstate will be a mandatory requirement surely? That will burn the airlines again for people have fights booked and miss getting the jab due to unavailability.

WA will probably want it as a mandatory entry requirement.

[Ragnor]

I bet you would of said 12 months ago states wouldn’t shut the relatives of dying people out, but they did. All bets are off moving forward I believe and until this covid is eradicated world wide this is the new normal. Premiers don’t give a hoot about airlines.

[Ladloy]

I bet you would of said 12 months ago states wouldn’t shut the relatives of dying people out, but they did. All bets are off moving forward I believe and until this covid is eradicated world wide this is the new normal. Premiers don’t give a hoot about airlines.
And why should they. We only care if we're directly affected by it. I'm sure if you were in the construction industry right now you wouldn't give a rats arse about the borders closing shut, especially if it means you can continue working.
​​​​

[Ragnor]

Hey I agree with you 100% if you’re not affected you don’t even know covid exist. I have plenty of mates in the construction industry I’m lucky enough to be employed by one now.

Until those guys want to go on a holiday and wonder why flights are $1000 one way to Brisbane $5000 to NZ and so on. All will be affected eventually.

[currawong]

Everyone that has a border, has restricted it in some way.

Only one is closed to departures.

There is a ban on all overseas travel, unless granted an exemption.

Bet you would not have picked that 12 months ago either.

Makes the cost of airfares a moot point.

[jrfsp]

Everyone that has a border, has restricted it in some way.

Only one is closed to departures.

There is a ban on all overseas travel, unless granted an exemption.

Bet you would not have picked that 12 months ago either.

Makes the cost of airfares a moot point.

Indeed....Will be interesting what happens in March when Job Keeper / Seeker supplement ends, If people are struggling to make ends meet, holidays are the first thing to go

[blubak]

Hey I agree with you 100% if you’re not affected you don’t even know covid exist. I have plenty of mates in the construction industry I’m lucky enough to be employed by one now.

Until those guys want to go on a holiday and wonder why flights are $1000 one way to Brisbane $5000 to NZ and so on. All will be affected eventually.
The airlines can charge or advertise a fare for whatever amount they want,doesnt mean anyone has to buy it.
There are plenty of great holiday destinations in everyones home state so when you go looking for a flight to an interstate destination & you dont like what you see pricewise,forget supporting greedy airlines & jump in the car.

[601]

All this time and they haven’t made a comprehensive plan for storage, transport, public education, testing sites, staff etc. They haven’t pumped as many resources into the TGA to expedite proper vaccine rollout
Citation please?

[Square Bear]

Airlines should be lobbying them to help distribute it as quick as possible

The way I see it is that the Countries that have used emergency provisions to circumvent the usual vaccine approvals are countries that are in much more dire straits than Australia will likely be in prior to March.

I personally do not see that getting aircraft flying, or pilots back on full time salary actually fits the bill for spreading up the approval process of the vaccine here in Australia at all.

Of course if it comes down to human life, for sure, spread up the approvals.

And whilst there are some on here that won’t hear of any opposing view to their myopic one....that is my take, like it or lump it.

Cheers.

[Ragnor]

the Victorian Gov is a disgrace, get yourself sorted and hire resources.Coronavirus Australia live news: Swamped testing sites turn away thousandsCOVID-19 testing sites across Melbourne closed within an hour of opening on Sunday, swamped by thousands of Victorians requiring tests after returning from NSW and further stressed by health staff taking holiday leave.

Despite the temporary closures and lack of staff, Victorian health authorities processed more tests than their NSW colleagues on Saturday — 22,477 samples compared to 18,923 — although that remains far short of the more than 40,000 daily tests undertaken at the height of the second coronavirus wave.

By 9.30am on Sunday, the Department of Health and Human Services listed drive-through sites in Darebin, Keysborough and West Footscray as “over capacity, no further accepted”. Cars were also turned away from the Melbourne Sports and Aquatic Centre in Albert Park, which was listed as a three-hour wait, and sites in Chadstone, St Albans and Broadmeadows had waiting times of more than two hours.



But Jeroen Weimar, who is co-ordinating Victoria’s COVID-19 response, defended the long waiting times for testing.

“There was a 35 per cent uplift in the total number of tests delivered in the south and southeastern suburbs yesterday compared to the day before so we are getting the numbers through,” he said. “Our frontline staff have been working phenomenally hard for that entire period and we have seen a significant number of people rightly take some well-*deserved leave as we see across the wider sector, so we have had to gear up and mobilise,” he said.

“The choice we faced before Christmas was, do you hold people over and not let them go on leave after absolutely flogging themselves for nine months (or) do you say, ‘no, you have to stand around the testing stations on the off chance’ … we took a view that we needed to have the right balance of resources.”

The DHHS has identified a number of new exposure sites, with the number of infections in the state reaching 50.

New locations on Sunday included Brighton Beach on December 29 between midday and 3pm, Angus and Cootes Jeweller at Southland Shopping Centre on December 28 between 2.30pm and 2.50pm and the Costco Moorabbin on December 30 between 4pm and 5.50pm.

Queensland Chief Health Officer Jeannette Young said there would not be any border restriction on Melbourne or Victoria “at this stage”. “But we’re keeping a very, very close eye on that,” she said on Sunday, after Victoria reported three new local cases.

Another Melbourne location, Grape & Grain in Moorabbin, which had yet to appear in DHHS warnings, said it would remain closed after staff tested positive.

The DHHS plans to boost testing capacity by extending hours, recalling staff, bringing on board agency staff and opening more pop-up and drive-through sites.

The Victorian branch of the Australian Nursing and Midwifery Federation posted a message on Facebook seeking “urgent support” from nurses and midwives to work in testing sites across the state on behalf of Torrens Health and the health department: “Shift lengths will vary from between six and 10 hours; travel and meal allowances are available in some circumstances.”

“I think 60,000 people made the right decision … to come back; I am confident the vast majority will follow through and say, right, I need to make sure I get tested because I don’t want to put myself at risk,” Mr Weimar said.

[Sunfish]

I’m sick of all this bull about trapped citizens both internationally and locally in NSW and elsewhere. These people have only themselves to blame unless they have suffered an accident rendering them unfit to travel when warnings were first given.

IF YOU TRAVEL ANYWHERE AT ALL, YOU SHOULD HAVE A ‘GET HOME’ PLAN!

In regard to Covid 19, blind freddy could tell you that there was a finite chance that Victorian and other borders would close sometime after a case was detected in NSW, but the stupid idiot Victorians still stupidly: (a) Had made plans to visit NSW, (b) Did not abandon said plans immediately the scale of the outbreak became apparent, (c) did not have either a plan or the brains to immediately get across the border once the speculation started!

FFS, I visited The Mornington Peninsula for a few days after Christmas but even for that trip, I told the wife “any hint of covid 19 in Melbourne and we are out of here right now” and back to our place in country Victoria. There is simply no excuse for not having a “bug out plan” right now. Our neighbours kids work in mines in Queensland. They were home for Christmas, then decided to go camping at New year and voila! They now will do 14 days quarantine on return to Queensland today. Other friends had booked a Noosa resort and until yesterday thought they could go today! How dumb do you have to be! Any travel away from your region is risky right now.

Internationally when travelling we always carry a few thousand US Dollars - enough to get us two tickets home or to a stable country in the event of a natural disaster or emergency of some kind. In some places you also need to keep your passport with you. Be aware that credit cards may not work in a disaster and there is no substitute for a handful or two of American dollars most places on the globe.

[Double_Clutch]

I’m so proud of you Sunfish

[brokenagain]

You’re my hero Sunfish.

[chookcooker]

You’d make a great pilot Sunfish

[Sunfish]

To make myself clear, non essential travel where you can’t get home within 24 hours by car is a risk in this environment. Public transport, including airlines, is an unacceptable risk.

[brokenagain]

Thanks for clarifying.

[turbantime]

Keep beating that chest Sunfish, no one cares what you think anymore.

[tipan13]

You’d make a great pilot Sunfish
😂😂😂😂😂


With Daniel Craig stepping down as James Bond, I can really see an opening for Sunfish being cast in the next Bond movie 😂

[currawong]

Meanwhile, in other news, KPMG estimates the latest slip up in NSW to have cost $32 billion, so far.

Go team.:D

[DirectAnywhere]

I think it’s time for Sunfish to write a book.

He should title it “Drive! Life lessons from the cockpit of the BoomerMobile”.

[SRFred]

Meanwhile, in other news, KPMG estimates the latest slip up in NSW to have cost $32 billion, so far.

Go team.:D

Have you missed a decimal point? I thought they said $3.2 billion.

[currawong]

Have you missed a decimal point? I thought they said $3.2 billion.

You are right, of course. $3.2 billion.

Either way, its a lot...

[WingNut60]

You are right, of course. $3.2 billion.

Either way, its a lot...
Any truth in the rumour that Gladys is at a JW convention in Tahiti

[Sunfish]

Bodie:
Posts: 233
You Sunfish, are nothing but an A-Grade MORON. An entitled, retired boomer. This scenario has very little effect on you. You've had your fun and this is now all about you. I dunno what the answers to this mess are but giving 60,000 Victorians 24-48 hours notice to get across a border, when clearly, they have been encouraged by various governments to get out and support the hospitality and tourism sectors is a low prick of an act.

At no stage prior were Victorians warned that if they leave the state they may be subject to this type of action. In fact, all of the messaging has been 'we're open for christmas'. 60,000 Victorians misunderstood government messaging to not leave the state? Drunk with power, no accountability. Making decisions that have huge economic and personal impact knowing that another government is picking up the tab.


Let me get this straight, you actually believe what any Government says??

You reckon that 60,000 Victorians are entitled to rely on what some ex union official stooge says on TV? The epidemiologists have already told you that the pandemic is a work in progress and that the response is not going to be consistent over time.

So it’s somehow “not fair” that some people are inconvenienced by the need to act quickly to prevent further damage to Victoria? You are the entitled one.

The pandemic demands quick thinking - by Government and by individuals. Whining about inconsistencies and inconvenience as you do is not a very good look, apart from being a waste of time.

To put that another way, we were told a few hours ago that one potential infection site is Chadstone shopping mall, the other is Grain and Grape bottle shop for four shifts. Don’t you understand that the potential is there for hundreds of cases appearing after the incubation period followed by immediate lockdown of suburban melbourne again. Here’s a tip, get prepared for handling that at twelve hours notice, or are you going to act surprised and demand a weeks grace?

[neville_nobody]

To make myself clear, non essential travel where you can’t get home within 24 hours by car is a risk in this environment. Public transport, including airlines, is an unacceptable risk.

Unacceptable to whom exactly?? To the elderly, maybe. For a couple of teenagers or children I would doubt it. But that's OK we'll blown up the economy, bankrupt the state, indebted the younger generation, take away their freedoms just so you can 'feel safe'.

If it's unacceptable to you personally that's fine you can stay home, but we shouldn't be destroying the country just because some 60 year old+ folks are a bit rattled. It is complete madness.

Last week NSW had 51 new cases out of a population of 5 million people with 1 hospitalisation. The ENTIRE COUNTRY of 25 Million people has 26 people in hospital due to Covid. That's 0.000104% of the population with none of those are in ICU. And for that we have gone and blown the whole country up.