All borders to reopen.

[empacher48]

How so???????

A hotspot defined in the New Zealand/Australia Green Zone travel bubble would be defined as 10 cases in the community per day in urban areas and 3 cases per day in rural areas in either country. This requirement was made by the Australian Federal Government.

NZ hasn’t opened a bubble with the whole of Australia because their own requirements is 28 days of no community transmission in Australia. Something that hasn’t happened yet.

The Federal Government opened borders to NZ based on the hotspot definition. Then closed the border with one hour notice to NZ for a single case.

NZ is now looking at a travel bubble with states that follow their own elimination strategy. At this stage only Queensland and WA. The NZ, Queensland and WA governments know where they stand. A single case appears anywhere and the borders close.

[Global Aviator]

A hotspot defined in the New Zealand/Australia Green Zone travel bubble would be defined as 10 cases in the community per day in urban areas and 3 cases per day in rural areas in either country. This requirement was made by the Australian Federal Government.

NZ hasn’t opened a bubble with the whole of Australia because their own requirements is 28 days of no community transmission in Australia. Something that hasn’t happened yet.

The Federal Government opened borders to NZ based on the hotspot definition. Then closed the border with one hour notice to NZ for a single case.

NZ is now looking at a travel bubble with states that follow their own elimination strategy. At this stage only Queensland and WA. The NZ, Queensland and WA governments know where they stand. A single case appears anywhere and the borders close.

Don’t forget the little ole NT accepting Kiwis..... Is that reciprocal? Have any Kiwis actually ventured North? Was a big hit in the media then went quiet, well yes I suppose it is the NT after all.

https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12781312

[Turnleft080]

In hindsight.
Going back to good old hindsight, right back, if the whole world (The whole planet) did a Victorian style lockdown even tougher i.e.
7.8 billion people stay at home, zero movements in planes/trains/buses/trams/cars/ships, a total shutdown of all industries not for 14 take it to 30 days.
That would make a good movie "The day the earth stood still". Sorry month.

However, the virus would of been suppressed and eliminated as Australia has done in every municipality. If that was done say a year ago, the second half of last
year would be virus free and the world today would be like 2019 covid free. How would this been implemented?
The WHO would of sent an APB to every government/state government. After all its the worlds governments that fund the WHO.
Drastic yes, could LA, NY, London shut down just like Melbourne. Well in hindsight they should have. Extreme short term pain
for long term gain.

Someone really stuffed up in hindsight. Next time a new virus is discovered like this then the WHO must act immediately and I mean immediately, not
ponder and monitor the situation in Wuhan which was about 3 months of procrastination. In hindsight the WHO should of advised
the Wuhan government to place a 30km ring of steal no one goes out, no one comes in. Then the virus would of been
suppressed and eliminated within the 30km radius. I wonder if we will learn from this.

[dr dre]

In hindsight the WHO should of advised
the Wuhan government to place a 30km ring of steal no one goes out, no one comes in. Then the virus would of been
suppressed and eliminated within the 30km radius. I wonder if we will learn from this.

The virus was in France in mid December 2019 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52526554) in a patient with no history of recent international travel. Which is a sign of how quick it can spread and why Australia is quick to stop any outbreaks.

[Icarus2001]

However, the virus would of been suppressed and eliminated as Australia has done in every municipality. If that was done say a year ago, the second half of last
year would be virus free and the world today would be like 2019 covid free. No No NO.

That is not how it works. The virus would still exist and as soon as there is movement then it spreads. That is the point. It is impractical to expect to eliminate Covid. It is like trying to eliminate influenza, another corona virus, or the common cold. It is virtually impossible. That is why the talk was about "flattening the curve" to protect the health system. Then a few months ago there was a subtle shift to trying to eliminate the virus. Which is crazy talk.

PS. Australia has NOT "eliminated the virus in every municipality".

[currawong]

In hindsight.
Going back to good old hindsight, right back, if the whole world (The whole planet) did a Victorian style lockdown even tougher i.e.
7.8 billion people stay at home, zero movements in planes/trains/buses/trams/cars/ships, a total shutdown of all industries not for 14 take it to 30 days.
That would make a good movie "The day the earth stood still". Sorry month.

However, the virus would of been suppressed and eliminated as Australia has done in every municipality. If that was done say a year ago, the second half of last
year would be virus free and the world today would be like 2019 covid free. How would this been implemented?
The WHO would of sent an APB to every government/state government. After all its the worlds governments that fund the WHO.
Drastic yes, could LA, NY, London shut down just like Melbourne. Well in hindsight they should have. Extreme short term pain
for long term gain.

Someone really stuffed up in hindsight. Next time a new virus is discovered like this then the WHO must act immediately and I mean immediately, not
ponder and monitor the situation in Wuhan which was about 3 months of procrastination. In hindsight the WHO should of advised
the Wuhan government to place a 30km ring of steal no one goes out, no one comes in. Then the virus would of been
suppressed and eliminated within the 30km radius. I wonder if we will learn from this.

You really have been on a bender for the last 12 months haven't you.

[Ragnor]

NZ do not want a bubble with Australia, Australia close to NZ because of this new strain (rightly so they did it with Brisbane) Jacinta has a sook and try to call Australia out. She should be happy that we wont be bothering her for a while about a bubble.

Next more important issue, why is Australia still closed to it self domestically? even the media have given up on borders not even mentioning it.

[PoppaJo]

Why cannot every single state border, open tomorrow? I see no reason why they can’t. When you stand back, and look at the current play of events, its nothing but madness.

My employer has stood down staff for the next few weeks. Then when looking at the current numbers, and I’m sick of hearing of all my friends about to sell the home, completely not necessarily, does not need to happen.

Domestic Market should have been thriving next month.

[currawong]

Whether its states, or local government areas or even individual suburbs, generally the policy has been "open when possible, restricted when necessary".

If cases had not escaped international quarantine again and again, we would have been unrestricted months ago.

[goodonyamate]

A hotspot defined in the New Zealand/Australia Green Zone travel bubble would be defined as 10 cases in the community per day in urban areas and 3 cases per day in rural areas in either country. This requirement was made by the Australian Federal Government.

NZ hasn’t opened a bubble with the whole of Australia because their own requirements is 28 days of no community transmission in Australia. Something that hasn’t happened yet.

The Federal Government opened borders to NZ based on the hotspot definition. Then closed the border with one hour notice to NZ for a single case.

NZ is now looking at a travel bubble with states that follow their own elimination strategy. At this stage only Queensland and WA. The NZ, Queensland and WA governments know where they stand. A single case appears anywhere and the borders close.

as SComo said...if you can’t go from nsw to qld then you most certainly won’t be going from NZ to QLD. Palachook and McGoose don’t control that border.

[wheels_down]

Why cannot every single state border, open tomorrow? I see no reason why they can’t. When you stand back, and look at the current play of events, its nothing but madness.

My employer has stood down staff for the next few weeks. Then when looking at the current numbers, and I’m sick of hearing of all my friends about to sell the home, completely not necessarily, does not need to happen.

Domestic Market should have been thriving next month.
Buy a lotto ticket your wish was granted.

[No Idea Either]

Palachook says QLD open next week........😀😀😀😀

[WingNut60]

Does anyone have a logical explanation for how the person in NZ managed to get through two weeks in quarantine and two negative tests and then come down ill several days after being released from quarantiine.
Looks about as likely as virgin birth to me.

[RubberDogPoop]

How about...they interacted in their last two days in quarantine with passengers that were in the early stages of their own stay? Not a lot of virginity required...

[WingNut60]

How about...they interacted in their last two days in quarantine with passengers that were in the early stages of their own stay? Not a lot of virginity required...
Exactly. But I thought that couldn't happen.
I am just a bit surprised that there hasn't been a bit more noise about the circumstances of it happening.

[Servo]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-25/new-zealand-covid19-community-transmission-auckland/13088496

They are still trying to trace how she became infected, whether from touching something, aircon or some other way. All very interesting.

What I find surprising is someone going on holiday to Europe, including working in Spain whilst there was a pandemic about. Came home, quarantined for 14 days and goes on another holiday within NZ. Obviously it is not stopping her from living her life.

The HQ system is the BIG hole in the swiss cheese at the moment. Hopefully it wont be Australia's or NZ's undoing.............

[DHC8 Driver]

In hindsight.
Going back to good old hindsight, right back, if the whole world (The whole planet) did a Victorian style lockdown even tougher i.e.
7.8 billion people stay at home, zero movements in planes/trains/buses/trams/cars/ships, a total shutdown of all industries not for 14 take it to 30 days.
That would make a good movie "The day the earth stood still". Sorry month.

However, the virus would of been suppressed and eliminated as Australia has done in every municipality. If that was done say a year ago, the second half of last
year would be virus free and the world today would be like 2019 covid free. How would this been implemented?
The WHO would of sent an APB to every government/state government. After all its the worlds governments that fund the WHO.
Drastic yes, could LA, NY, London shut down just like Melbourne. Well in hindsight they should have. Extreme short term pain
for long term gain.

Someone really stuffed up in hindsight. Next time a new virus is discovered like this then the WHO must act immediately and I mean immediately, not
ponder and monitor the situation in Wuhan which was about 3 months of procrastination. In hindsight the WHO should of advised
the Wuhan government to place a 30km ring of steal no one goes out, no one comes in. Then the virus would of been
suppressed and eliminated within the 30km radius. I wonder if we will learn from this.

Given that new or mutant viruses emerge continuously, following your proposal, we would have to lock the world down forever! Whilst I agree that a more assertive approach by the WHO may have alleviated much of the pain and suffering we have endured from Covid19, I don't believe that a worldwide lockdown would be either desireable or feasible.

[currawong]

This day one year ago I had to overnight at a well known east coast destination.

At check in everyone else in the que was wearing a mask.

All had clearly just arrived from China, none had taken the time to book ahead...

It was at that point I realized they might know something that we didn't.

[Green.Dot]

Low-cost airlines may be ‘better positioned’ for 2021 challengeshttps://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/aviation-outlook-low-cost-airlines-may-be-better-positioned-for-2021.html

[WhisprSYD]

This day one year ago I had to overnight at a well known east coast destination.

At check in everyone else in the que was wearing a mask.

All had clearly just arrived from China, none had taken the time to book ahead...

It was at that point I realized they might know something that we didn't.

it’s amazing the early signs that were missed by many at the size of the problem ahead..
around this time last year I was contemplating taking the kids to Chinatown to watch the CNY celebrations, but had been following some of the news on Twitter and thought better of it.

Funnily enough my in-laws flew in on CSN early/mid January 2020 and my father in law developed ‘the worst flu he’s ever had’ a couple of days after landing with a cough that hung around for about 6 weeks..
was on his ass for 2 weeks so naturally isolated, but no word about testing back then.

[blubak]

Palachook says QLD open next week........😀😀😀😀
Did it in her usual'look how good i am' bitch face attitude.
What about showing some respect & talking to NSW premier first,she really is a piece of work.

[WhisprSYD]

Did it in her usual'look how good i am' bitch face attitude.
What about showing some respect & talking to NSW premier first,she really is a piece of work.

not to mention the announcement came at the same time as a request to the fed government for more support for their struggling tourism industry

[Ragnor]

She has finally realised tourism industry does not work without tourist. Hopefully Sco Mo cuts all this JK and funding of certain sectors. It just might make these premiers think a little more rationally.

[601]

Did it in her usual'look how good i am' bitch face attitude.

I feel as though I am back in Kindy with her "media events"

Now now boys and girls we have to be goody goodies for a couple more days before you can go outside or before Gran can come from Sydney for a visit.

[blubak]

She has finally realised tourism industry does not work without tourist. Hopefully Sco Mo cuts all this JK and funding of certain sectors. It just might make these premiers think a little more rationally.
Its taken her a long long time to work that fact out,i guess she has had too many media events to front up to!
I have read many comments that point this out over the last 9 months or so & now she has finally had to admit it.
Talk about double standards,describes her perfectly.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

One of Anna's staff must have misread the calendar and told her NSW School Holidays start on Monday.

[Ragnor]

Queen P was on the tube this morning trying to out more pressure on the Federal Government Sco Mo has a thin line to walk on here with an election at the end of the yr. Queensland Ppl know she had decimated tourism with her knee jerk un educated over reactions to borders. Now Sco Mo will have to clean up her mess.

[Green.Dot]

Well there you go Almighty Anastasia. Keeping Queenslanders “safe” (lol) has come at a cost.

The state of all world economies will be very interesting come the end of the year.

[WhisprSYD]

Queen P was on the tube this morning trying to out more pressure on the Federal Government Sco Mo has a thin line to walk on here with an election at the end of the yr. Queensland Ppl know she had decimated tourism with her knee jerk un educated over reactions to borders. Now Sco Mo will have to clean up her mess.

might be giving her too much credit here, but it’s actually pretty shrewd politically..

1. ‘Slam borders shut’ to keep her QLDers safe in the lead up to the election.

2. Continue the scaremongering until there’s a sniff of a federal election.

3. Open up to the dirty southerners at the same time you request more federal help to prop up the industry you helped decimate

4. Put the liberal government in a position where the state that unexpectedly won them the last election may hit 20% unemployment in the lead up to an election unless you keep the money printers going..

[601]

4. Put the liberal government in a position where the state that unexpectedly won them the last election may hit 20% unemployment in the lead up to an election unless you keep the money printers going..
ScoMo should tell her to fund JobKeeper after March, let her stew for a while and then , just before the Fed election, announce that Qld is broke and that the Feds will pickup the bill.

[Ladloy]

This thread reads like a QAnon thread. You've all lost the plot.

[Ragnor]

This thread reads like a QAnon thread. You've all lost the plot.


I don't want my tax dollars funding another premier draconian measures and to support business that suffered with the border closures that were not necessary at certain times and were closed longer than needed. Yes we have lost the plot.

NSW tourist business are doing fine thats because it was appropriately managed, something Queen P can not understand.

[rattman]

This thread reads like a QAnon thread. You've all lost the plot.

They never had a plot to start with to lose

[Ascend Charlie]

Palabtfsplk's favourite saying was: "I won't be bullied by any of those Liberal governments!" when they were gently urging her to open up. Idiot.

[Foxxster]

Palabtfsplk's favourite saying was: "I won't be bullied by any of those Liberal governments!" when they were gently urging her to open up. Idiot.

The problem for the Queensland Labor Govt headed by the chuck is they are broke. Years of profligate spending has meant their state debt..

Queensland's debt levels will balloon to almost $130 billion within four years, ...In September's fiscal economic update for the 2020-21 financial year, the Government predicted the state's debt would reach almost $102 billion by mid next year.

Today, Mr Dick revealed Queensland's total gross debt was now forecast to hit $122.668 billion by 2022-23, and about $130 billion by 2023-24.


So with only about 5 million people, Queenslanders have a state debt that is per capita almost equal to the current federal debt, so they have federal debt times two. Or to put it more simply, around $26,000 per person of state debt. So a family of 4 has over $100,000 of state debt ....and its increasing year by year and Labor has no ability even in good times to reverse it.

The chuck should STFU and stump up some state money that the morons who voted for her can pay back via state charges. They can then suffer the consequences of their stupid actions. But then that is not what the left side of politics is all about. Someone else is always meant to pay.

as for anyone voicing an opinion that is not of the left being labeled QAnon. Seriously is that the latest label the idiot lefties are going to use along with any “ist” like their favourite racist or “phobe”. Such labels are used by morons who have no valid argument as a weapon to silence any dissenting opinions from their so called correct far left view. Which ironically has the hallmarks of fascist regimes.

[John Eacott]

Queen P was on the tube this morning trying to out more pressure on the Federal Government Sco Mo has a thin line to walk on here with an election at the end of the yr. Queensland Ppl know she had decimated tourism with her knee jerk un educated over reactions to borders. Now Sco Mo will have to clean up her mess.

What election at the end of this year? Next Federal election can be any time up to 2023.

I'm riding down to Mexico tomorrow (another Border Pass needed, but I've lived with them for the past 9 months in our Border Bubble) and will be ready to turn around the moment the inevitable reinstatement of the Borders is instigated by the Princess. I thought Dan was bad enough but our Premier is trying to emulate his Command and Control :ugh:

[SOPS]

Mark has opened the border to QLD and Victoria. He has said that at the slightest hint of an outbreak they will shut again..and I quote..”or worse.” NSW has to wait a bit longer.

[WingNut60]

What election at the end of this year? Next Federal election can be any time up to 2023.



Not quite correct. Next Fed election must occur on or before 21 May 2022 if for both houses, otherwise 03 September.
Earliest date is 07 Aug 21.

[WingNut60]

Mark has opened the border to QLD and Victoria. He has said that at the slightest hint of an outbreak they will shut again..and I quote..”or worse.” NSW has to wait a bit longer.
Can you give us a source for that "quote"?

[Ragnor]

McGoose does not want to open to NSW it’s political for him he is making it way to obvious. After watching that press conference of him trying to rip into Gladys was very laughable. It’s a shame tho, you would think Queen P desperate and very desperate plea it was to government for her poor tourism industry that she ruined herself that the Western Australian public would see right through McGoose BS, but, no they will vote the village idiot in again.

2023 latest for an election. Crikey where are you living mate.

[dr dre]

the Western Australian public would see right through McGoose BS, but, no they will vote the village idiot in again.

You do realise the kid running the WA Liberal party atm fully supports and endorses the state’s border policy?

[Ragnor]

I do, only because the public are brain washed in believing McGoose policy and realize they can’t change their opinion so close to an election.

[Ladloy]

The problem for the Queensland Labor Govt headed by the chuck is they are broke. Years of profligate spending has meant their state debt..

Queensland's debt levels will balloon to almost $130 billion within four years, ...In September's fiscal economic update for the 2020-21 financial year, the Government predicted the state's debt would reach almost $102 billion by mid next year.

Today, Mr Dick revealed Queensland's total gross debt was now forecast to hit $122.668 billion by 2022-23, and about $130 billion by 2023-24.


So with only about 5 million people, Queenslanders have a state debt that is per capita almost equal to the current federal debt, so they have federal debt times two. Or to put it more simply, around $26,000 per person of state debt. So a family of 4 has over $100,000 of state debt ....and its increasing year by year and Labor has no ability even in good times to reverse it.

The chuck should STFU and stump up some state money that the morons who voted for her can pay back via state charges. They can then suffer the consequences of their stupid actions. But then that is not what the left side of politics is all about. Someone else is always meant to pay.

as for anyone voicing an opinion that is not of the left being labeled QAnon. Seriously is that the latest label the idiot lefties are going to use along with any “ist” like their favourite racist or “phobe”. Such labels are used by morons who have no valid argument as a weapon to silence any dissenting opinions from their so called correct far left view. Which ironically has the hallmarks of fascist regimes.
The conspiracy theories on this thread are insane, not to do with left or right wing ideologies. That being said, perhaps only ACT would be close to a left wing government. The rest sit in the right wing authorative quadrant.

[Dannyboy39]

So this morning I’ve just booked (with a free 48 hour cancellation of course) hotels in Brisbane and Adelaide between 6-21 December coming from England for the Ashes tests which are due to held on this date - cost comes to around 1200 GBP which is very reasonable. The first test expected to start on 8 Dec however Cricket Australia are having to put into the schedule the possibility of a 14 day quarantine again.

Not booked flights as of yet but BA are offering vouchers up until Easter 2023 if you don’t want to travel, but expected to cost 900 GBP all in.

Some mighty deals out there and I just hope that the Aussies come to their senses by that time. More than happy to significantly contribute to the economy that is the wonderful country that is Australia.

[Maggie Island]

Some mighty deals out there and I just hope that the Aussies come to their senses by that time.

If I were you I wouldn’t set my expectations that high... even if you make it into the country there’s every chance you’d miss the series or your flight home due to petty state politics.

[SRFred]

Some mighty deals out there and I just hope that the Aussies come to their senses by that time. More than happy to significantly contribute to the economy that is the wonderful country that is Australia.

Yeah well put them into extended quarantine as it will probably be the only way the Aussie cricket team can win.

[blubak]

So this morning I’ve just booked (with a free 48 hour cancellation of course) hotels in Brisbane and Adelaide between 6-21 December coming from England for the Ashes tests which are due to held on this date - cost comes to around 1200 GBP which is very reasonable. The first test expected to start on 8 Dec however Cricket Australia are having to put into the schedule the possibility of a 14 day quarantine again.

Not booked flights as of yet but BA are offering vouchers up until Easter 2023 if you don’t want to travel, but expected to cost 900 GBP all in.

Some mighty deals out there and I just hope that the Aussies come to their senses by that time. More than happy to significantly contribute to the economy that is the wonderful country that is Australia.
So i take it you want the borders opened up with no restrictions for anyone who wants to come to australia?
We will do just fine within australia as we move forward & get the domestic economy & travel industry back to where it needs to be.
The countries that need to 'come to their senses' as you put it are the ones that currently cant control the spread of the virus,i believe the UK are 1 of them!

[Dannyboy39]

So i take it you want the borders opened up with no restrictions for anyone who wants to come to australia?
We will do just fine within australia as we move forward & get the domestic economy & travel industry back to where it needs to be.
The countries that need to 'come to their senses' as you put it are the ones that currently cant control the spread of the virus,i believe the UK are 1 of them!
I’m absolutely not saying the U.K. did the right thing, Australia are receiving plaudits over here. However we cannot stay in our own bubble forever. By October in theory both countries should be fully vaccinated - so what is the problem? Right now is clearly not the time to be travelling and the likes of O’Leary have been conspicuous by their silence of late.
I just find it ridiculous that a quarantine in one state is not good enough for another state? It’s like airport security, you have to clear it at every connecting country despite the same standards generally everywhere.

[blubak]

Palabtfsplk's favourite saying was: "I won't be bullied by any of those Liberal governments!" when they were gently urging her to open up. Idiot.
Its not all that long ago that the queen was bleating away & telling us what great shape the state was in & how tourism was exploding with places booked out well in advance.
There were many comments out there from the tourism operators denying her claims & now its easy to see whose facts were correct.
She hasnt lost a cent of her income whilst sending qld deeper into debt.

[Ragnor]

They voted for her, and it was not a little margin either. Sco Mo better not send a cent to them tourist operators. Queen P kept them safe we all knew it wouldn’t be cheap.

[patty50]

Dannyboy, with all due respect you have no clue what the sentiment on the ground is here. We have no desire for foreign tourists, similarly WA doesn’t care about east coast tourists.

And insofar as you mention the almighty tourist dollar, our economy loses significantly more money from aussies going overseas than we gain from foreign visitors. The money being spent on big ticket purchases locally right now is eye watering and more than covers whatever contribution the Barmy Army might bring.

There is no chance whatsoever that borders will be open to foreign tourists in 2021.

[currawong]

Border restrictions cost, outbreaks cost more. Lots more.

Handy interactive map showing where all the jobkeeper payments are going.

https://taylorfry.com.au/articles/where-do-people-receiving-jobkeeper-live/

[blubak]

They voted for her, and it was not a little margin either. Sco Mo better not send a cent to them tourist operators. Queen P kept them safe we all knew it wouldn’t be cheap.
Dont think you can blame the tourism operators,many of them have put their whole life into making their business successful.
If Scomo does assist,it needs to be a 1 on 1 deal directly with those operators & completely by passing queen P & her ongoing meddling & lies.

[McLimit]

Dannyboy, with all due respect you have no clue what the sentiment on the ground is here. We have no desire for foreign tourists, similarly WA doesn’t care about east coast tourists.

And insofar as you mention the almighty tourist dollar, our economy loses significantly more money from aussies going overseas than we gain from foreign visitors. The money being spent on big ticket purchases locally right now is eye watering and more than covers whatever contribution the Barmy Army might bring.

There is no chance whatsoever that borders will be open to foreign tourists in 2021.

OMG.....................The arrogance is breathtaking. Could you be any more insular?

The stupidity of your comments will come back to bite.

[currawong]

Dont think you can blame the tourism operators,many of them have put their whole life into making their business successful.
If Scomo does assist,it needs to be a 1 on 1 deal directly with those operators & completely by passing queen P & her ongoing meddling & lies.

Why not fix the problem at its source?

Quarantine escapes (regardless of state) without which there would be no justification for further restrictions.

If the first line of defense works, the second line should not be needed.

[DirectAnywhere]

Perth into a 5 day lockdown. McGowan has asked other states to prevent inbound travel to WA.

Hotel quarantine failure, yet again.

[Ragnor]

Queen P can fix that mess she made with QLD money, they have given 200million for VA they can give QLD tourism operators some cash. I have zero sympathy here for this they overwhelmingly voted for her knowing the out come just like Western Australian residents they fell for the politics. QLD are just suffering now for it.

[hoss58]

News.com just reporting Perth going into a 5 day lock down from 6pm Perth time.

[On eyre]

Perth into a 5 day lockdown. McGowan has asked other states to prevent inbound travel to WA.

Hotel quarantine failure, yet again.

Its his border he wants to close but it’s getting too close to election time for McClown to have the goulies to do that. P*** weak.

[Lookleft]

Not just Perth but the south-west as well. So from being the great commentator of the West to being scared as a rabbit down a hole for the sake of 1 case in the community! Unbelievable.

[SOPS]

Can you give us a source for that "quote"?

I think we can see what he meant.

[hoss58]

Not just Perth but the south-west as well. So from being the great commentator of the West to being scared as a rabbit down a hole for the sake of 1 case in the community! Unbelievable.


And they did it all on their own. No help from leper colonies in the east required.

Hoss 58

[jrfsp]

I mean WAs reaction was always going to happen.

However, how many further escapes from HQ will we have this year??? How much do these lockdowns costs? Where is Socmo?

100 years ago we had to sense to have purpose built quarantine facilities away from major centres .now we stick them in the major capitals. This wont be the last epidemic...

[Foxxster]

News.com just reporting Perth going into a 5 day lock down from 6pm Perth time.

and medical workers are being trained in the new test regime.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=4vkx_1612017960

[Ragnor]

WA are so unprepared for this its hilarious.

[brokenagain]

Everybody except Western Australians.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/400x373/7efcead8_9f50_4d91_b2d5_92d3ff28507d_4a3242a96fa468f663cab40 caa8e6a61feab0c4d.jpeg

[blubak]

Not just Perth but the south-west as well. So from being the great commentator of the West to being scared as a rabbit down a hole for the sake of 1 case in the community! Unbelievable.
Just looking at the list of places nominated as possible exposure sites,1 of them is a servo with a date of 13 jan whereas the rest of them are 28 & 29 jan.
Could be this hotel quarantine worker had been working more than 1 job,isnt that a big no no.
See what the clown has to say about that.

[Dannyboy39]

Dannyboy, with all due respect you have no clue what the sentiment on the ground is here. We have no desire for foreign tourists, similarly WA doesn’t care about east coast tourists.

And insofar as you mention the almighty tourist dollar, our economy loses significantly more money from aussies going overseas than we gain from foreign visitors. The money being spent on big ticket purchases locally right now is eye watering and more than covers whatever contribution the Barmy Army might bring.

There is no chance whatsoever that borders will be open to foreign tourists in 2021.
Of course in-migration is a vote winner everywhere... not! Especially in a place like Australia! As I say, by October everyone in both countries should have protection. And then at that point, what is the problem?

[goodonyamate]

Re WA, as much as I too want to say f@&k you mcgoose, It was always going to happen, my hope now is that the lockdown contains it, and we can all get back to work soon.

maybe now you won’t be such a smug prick.

best of luck to those in WA

[blubak]

Of course in-migration is a vote winner everywhere... not! Especially in a place like Australia! As I say, by October everyone in both countries should have protection. And then at that point, what is the problem?
Many people might have protection but unless community spread stops there is no chance of our international border being open without a guarantee that the people being allowed in either have a test with a negative result or go into quarantine at their own expense.
Nobody knows what it going to happen as 2021 progresses but 1 thing for sure is that the aus govt are not going to risk covid being brought here.
That is not saying we will not get cases(perth has 1 now) but as far as uncontrolled international borders go i think its very wise you having refundable hotel accomodation & from what i have been reading BA have suspended services to oz for many months.
Overseas residents may think the oz government are crazy imposing restrictions such as those in place now but i think you will find a majority of people here support what is in place & for those of us in victoria we are very aware of what a large outbreak does to our everyday freedom & on that point i have no issue with stating our govt run hotel quarantine caused it but it is us(the residents) who have buckled down to get where we are now & in all honesty overseas visitors are not high on our priority list.
We appreciate you wanting to come here & spend money however in 2021 that may not happen..

[Keg]

I was in WA in December in that short period that NSW people were allowed to roam free. It was amazing seeing the lack of social distancing going on at pubs around the city. Lots of of tracking people via the WA government app they require everyone to have so you’d think their contact tracing would be spot on but scratch below the surface and it was complacency central.

WA has had 8 months to put in place it’s processes to deal with what was always inevitable. It appears they’ve done SFA given the shortage of masks in all supermarkets.

Some comparisons with NSW and the most recent outbreak. NSW ‘locked down’ the northern beaches for a bunch of days due to a couple of super spreader events. Meanwhile the rest of the city masked up, checked in our app everywhere we went including gyms, cafes, restaurants, etc, socially distanced, and got on with life. Six weeks later we’ve had zero Covid for 14 days. Even when locked down my understanding the northern beaches residents could still exercise for as long as they liked, weren’t required to wear masks whilst doing so, and were allowed to do so with others. WA has said one hour for exercise, (why? What does it matter if someone exercises outdoors for three hours), with one other person, and locked people down who are literally hundreds of km away from the outbreak.

What. A. Joke. Talk about getting the government you deserve!

[NumptyAussie]

Re WA, as much as I too want to say f@&k you mcgoose, It was always going to happen, my hope now is that the lockdown contains it, and we can all get back to work soon.

maybe now you won’t be such a smug prick.

best of luck to those in WA

I am not so sure that he was smug prick, possibly steadfast in his attempt to keep the virus from spreading in a state with a small population that is distributed over a massive area (and with its tertiary hospitals in the metropolitan area), but I concur with the prick sentiment.

[Keg]

Now that WA has had community spread, I wonder if they’ll still insist on other jurisdictions such as NSW getting to 28 days before they open up to us?

[Dannyboy39]

Many people might have protection but unless community spread stops there is no chance of our international border being open without a guarantee that the people being allowed in either have a test with a negative result or go into quarantine at their own expense.
Nobody knows what it going to happen as 2021 progresses but 1 thing for sure is that the aus govt are not going to risk covid being brought here.
That is not saying we will not get cases(perth has 1 now) but as far as uncontrolled international borders go i think its very wise you having refundable hotel accomodation & from what i have been reading BA have suspended services to oz for many months.
Overseas residents may think the oz government are crazy imposing restrictions such as those in place now but i think you will find a majority of people here support what is in place & for those of us in victoria we are very aware of what a large outbreak does to our everyday freedom & on that point i have no issue with stating our govt run hotel quarantine caused it but it is us(the residents) who have buckled down to get where we are now & in all honesty overseas visitors are not high on our priority list.
We appreciate you wanting to come here & spend money however in 2021 that may not happen..
I do wonder what the A380 drivers and all of the other long haulers are thinking at the moment... they're probably too busy doing their duty being Amazon delivery drivers by now.

I think the Australian response has been laudable, but whilst it is fashionable to bring up the drawbridge to Johnny Foreigner with any sign of Covid, surely it is completely unsustainable in the long term. How is locking down a whole city for ONE case a sustainable and measured response, with the armory of testing, contact tracing and vaccines. I say that as a member of UK Labour. That said, looking on the echo chamber that is Twitter, it seems to have been lapped up.

It is so endemic in the global population, there is widespread medical agreement that it'll become a seasonal illness akin to the flu, needing top up vaccination.

Look at NZ - strictest of strict quarantine rules, someone does 14 days in the stalag and STILL gets sick. You can't keep it out forever I hate to say.

[currawong]

All of which takes us further away from getting back to or close to normal.

[bolthead]

I'm no fan, but the deputy NSW premier was on the money when he said words to the effect of - McGowan better be careful because it might bite him on the bum! No daily testing for guards arranged for 20 days after national decision to do it. Well done.

[dr dre]

However, how many further escapes from HQ will we have this year??? How much do these lockdowns costs? Where is Socmo?


This is what epidemiologists were saying in November last year, since then we’ve had 2 more hotel outbreaks and nothing has been changed:

South Australian cluster shows we need to stop hotel quarantine in cities: epidemiologist (https://www.abc.net.au/radio/melbourne/programs/mornings/sa-cluster-shows-we-need-to-stop-hotel-quarantine-in-major-citie/12886556)

Infectious diseases expert and epidemiologist Mary-Louise McLaws told Virginia Trioli the Adelaide cluster shows why hotel quarantine programs should be shut down in favour of purpose built quarantine stations.
"Hotel quarantines were a great idea to get Australians and residents back home, but it should only have been an interim idea," Professor McLaws said.
"We do need to start thinking about a purpose built environment."

South Australia’s COVID outbreak - Adrian Esterman Professor of Biostatistics and Epidemiology, University of South Australia (https://theconversation.com/south-australias-covid-outbreak-what-we-know-so-far-and-what-needs-to-happen-next-150160)

In a situation like this, we should ask why we continue to operate high-risk quarantine hotels in the middle of a city. It would be much safer to quarantine people away from communities, like we did on Christmas Island (https://theconversation.com/yes-theres-merit-in-quarantining-people-on-christmas-island-to-prevent-the-spread-of-coronavirus-130879) earlier in the pandemic.

This will not be the last hotel outbreak before a critical level of vaccination is reached.

[Ragnor]

I bet we don’t see huge lines of ppl getting tested in Perth tomorrow. Do they even know how to set up testing clinic and able to turn a test around in less than 24hrs. Mr Barilaro will be having a little chuckle to himself now.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

I don’t know whether McGowan’s a smug prick or not, but someone over there certainly is. This really hasn’t aged well, has it?

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/906x1498/9fd8f3ae_625c_4c58_b16a_a76626049f33_5c0c0b87afdb957da008d00 a571cca8ba37a4804.jpeg

[WipperSnapper]

I bet we don’t see huge lines of ppl getting tested in Perth tomorrow. Do they even know how to set up testing clinic and able to turn a test around in less than 24hrs. Mr Barilaro will be having a little chuckle to himself now.

Wow the hatred towards West Australians is ridiculous. It's 38 degrees here today and the hospital closest to us has a line of people outside in the sun around the corner and down the street. People are responding and getting tested, same as everywhere else when there's been an outbreak.

I agree there is a ridiculous amount of "she'll be right, it ain't here" by a large proportion of the community here. They are also the people who didn't buy masks when this thing hit, even as recent as when Brisbane locked down McGowan was still telling people to buy masks because we will need them if we get an outbreak. Why would shops stock them here if people aren't buying them? They aren't government run.

As recent as yesterday's press conference he was saying hotel quarantine should be a Federal run program at remote locations but Scomo doesn't want that so we have to deal with the situation as best we can. He comes across smug and a lot of people that I interact with have been saying it's only a matter of time until we get a case and he will get slaughtered by the east coast media for the way he is carrying on.

What's our alternative though? He was elected well before this mess, the opposition government has stood behind him on border closures since about May last year and their party is an absolute shambles?

[compressor stall]

WS - I guess you haven't repeatedly been abused by the WA public as you walk along the street in your mask to your crew transport or the COVID test?

To be fair it did happen in QLD a bit, but that was always at nighttime and they were pissed on XXXX at the bar over the road from the hotel. Not at lunchtime, nor repeatedly.

[KRviator]

I bet we don’t see huge lines of ppl getting tested in Perth tomorrow. Do they even know how to set up testing clinic and able to turn a test around in less than 24hrs. Mr Barilaro will be having a little chuckle to himself now.Oh, they have testing clinics - that appear to only be able to handle 500 (no, there's not a missing '0') on a normal day. Here's yet another of McGoose's examples of excellence...

Frustration as WA's COVID clinics struggle
Premier Mark McGowan says almost 2000 people presented at clinics on Thursday, about four times the usual daily number. source (https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7060993/frustration-as-was-covid-clinics-struggle/?cs=14231)Yesiree! Here's the gold standard folks! 2,000 tests a day and you have to turn people away in WA. What did NSW get around the same time? Nearly 70,000 tests done in a single day?!?

And here's another one - from only a few minutes ago!
By about 4.30pm, the clinic on Beaufort Street had run out of COVID-19 testing swabs as people flooded in after Premier Mark McGowan announced there was community spread from a nearby Maylands resident.source (https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/wa-coronavirus-live-perth-enters-five-day-lockdown-after-hotel-security-guard-tests-positive-to-covid-19-20210131-p56y8a.html#p51twz)Nothing quite like a testing centre with no test kits, is there?

[WingNut60]

I think we can see what he meant.
If you're going to quote someone, and indeed quote them in bolded script, then you need to be able to substantiate your quote.

Otherwise you're simply telling lies to emphasise your contention.

[WingNut60]

WA are so unprepared for this its hilarious.
What makes you think that??

[Ragnor]

The above link for starters.

[WingNut60]

Yesiree! Here's the gold standard folks! 2,000 tests a day and you have to turn people away in WA. What did NSW get around the same time? Nearly 70,000 tests done in a single day?!?


Because on Thursday, there was no known Covid in the wild in WA and had not been for 38 weeks.
Why even 2000 people presented for testing is beyond me.

Different this afternoon - within hours of the announcements being made.

[Ladloy]

Because on Thursday, there was no known Covid in the wild in WA and had not been for 38 weeks.
Why even 2000 people presented for testing is beyond me.

Different this afternoon - within hours of the announcements being made.
​​​​​​This is the right response. They have kept the virus out of the community for so long that their dream run doesn't require widespread testing like its counterparts. McGowan has also made the recommendation to close the borders to WA, in line with his own rules.

[aussieflyboy]

Why even 2000 people presented for testing is beyond me.


If you’ve been in QLD, NSW and VIC your required to get tested on day 11 after your return - this is what most of those tests are - not sick people

[SOPS]

It amazes me to see the joy people are
heaving at seeing an outbreak in WA. I thought you all wanted the borders to open, so that things can go back to “normal”,and you can go flying again.

We get an event in WA, that has the potential to shut borders hard again, and you could not be happier. It’s very strange.

( remember, the individual in question, could have spread it to someone that has already flown to the Eastern States and it is currently spreading in the east.. I hope that’s not the case.)

[Keg]

As recent as yesterday's press conference he was saying hotel quarantine should be a Federal run program at remote locations...

It’s one of the most idiotic proposals known to man kind. Introduces a whole bunch of risk transferring people with Covid from their point of arrival vast distances by bus, or air and then bus, to a remote location. Then you don’t have the critical mass of support workers required to run a proper quarantine system and need to ship people in. You also don’t have the same level of medical support available if someone gets seriously crook. And if it does get out into the community in that ‘remote location’ you then have to shut down that entire quarantine facility because the odds are you don’t have any surge capability of other staff to come in and take the place of those staff now in isolation.

[compressor stall]

SOPS - No joy from me for reasons of jobs, economy and social life. However having had random strangers in Perth CBD abuse and yell at my crew on many occasions over the past 7 months as we were wearing masks (sometimes in uniform and sometimes without) I can't help but feel a little bit of karma striking down those individuals.

[currawong]

SOPS - No joy from me for reasons of jobs, economy and social life. However having had random strangers in Perth CBD abuse and yell at my crew on many occasions over the past 7 months as we were wearing masks (sometimes in uniform and sometimes without) I can't help but feel a little bit of karma striking down those individuals.

Would you characterise Victorians on the basis of the actions of the sovereign citizen movement?

Neither would I.

[601]

Could be this hotel quarantine worker had been working more than 1 job,isnt that a big no no.

Second job as a ride share driver no less

[compressor stall]

Would you characterise Victorians on the basis of the actions of the sovereign citizen movement?

Neither would I.No of course not and you know it. Did you notice my feelings were directed and limited to “those individuals” who by the way on every occasion did not appear “fringe” in any way. From the times we understood the words, the abuse was about going back east, not that COVID is a myth.

I chose not to direct any feelings of karma towards the two policemen on a compliance check who berated the sleeping crew for not answering their doors at lunchtime in a timely manner when the crew had arrived at dawn and were leaving that evening. Nor any other people involved in other “interesting” WA COVID experiences too numerous to list.

[dr dre]

It’s one of the most idiotic proposals known to man kind.

"one of the most idiotic proposals known to man kind"? Like I posted above, multiple prominent Australian epidemiologists (https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/is-it-time-for-a-national-approach-to-hotel-quaran) were calling for a remote Quarantine program (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-22/coronavirus-hotel-quarantine-does-the-system-need-improving/12901574) last year. This was also suggested in the National Review of Hotel Quarantine (https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020/10/national-review-of-hotel-quarantine.pdf) by the AHPPC last year:

The Australian Government has the capability to declare a human health response zone, as seen with evacuations of early quarantine cohorts to national facilities or State/Territory facilities gazetted for this purpose, including the Learmonth RAAF base or immigration detention facilities, and the Northern Territory’s Howard Springs facility

Introduces a whole bunch of risk transferring people with Covid from their point of arrival vast distances by bus, or air and then bus, to a remote location.


Not if you fly them directly there. There's plenty of remote airports with runways capable of international widebody flights in this country. Temporary accommodation, medical and CIQ can be constructed quickly if we have the will to do it.

Then you don’t have the critical mass of support workers required to run a proper quarantine system and need to ship people in.


The mining industry gets around this by paying their workers good money. Maybe they could work 2 weeks on, 2 weeks quarantine, 2 weeks off for a few months? Yes it would be expensive, but far less than the cost of all these major city outbreaks.

You also don’t have the same level of medical support available if someone gets seriously crook.


Temporary medical support at the remote location, aeromedical evacuation on standby to more intensive care facilities as well. Yes this does introduce a risk to a major city, but far far less than quarantining all travelers in a major city rather than a solitary case or two.

And if it does get out into the community in that ‘remote location’ you then have to shut down that entire quarantine facility because the odds are you don’t have any surge capability of other staff to come in and take the place of those staff now in isolation.

It would be a remote location where personnel are confined from outside communities. Surge capability would come at a cost but again far less than all these capital city breakouts that are detrimental to the economy.

I'm sure if this nation's professionals put their minds together (with the necessary funding) they could come up with workable solutions. Problem is the government just doesn't want to spend the money, or they're thinking the vaccine rollout is close enough now that minor outbreaks won't pose a large scale threat soon.

If you ask me housing international arrivals smack bang in the middle of major cities is an idiotic idea.

[nonsense]

I was in WA in December in that short period that NSW people were allowed to roam free. It was amazing seeing the lack of social distancing going on at pubs around the city.
Curiously I was in Sydney around the same time (2nd week of December), where I was also amazed at the lack of masks or distancing compared to Melbourne!

[zanthrus]

An outbreak of 1. What a load of ****!
F U McCLown! I will not comply. Get F#%Ked!

[aviation_enthus]

It amazes me to see the joy people are
heaving at seeing an outbreak in WA. I thought you all wanted the borders to open, so that things can go back to “normal”,and you can go flying again.

We get an event in WA, that has the potential to shut borders hard again, and you could not be happier. It’s very strange.

( remember, the individual in question, could have spread it to someone that has already flown to the Eastern States and it is currently spreading in the east.. I hope that’s not the case.)

Probably has something to do with the condescending attitude from the WA Premier in particular towards all the eastern states when they’ve had an outbreak.....

Even watching from overseas (as I am), most expat Aussies were waiting for WA to cop it. McGowan will be tested now, so his actions better back up all the talk of the last few months!!

The only certainty in this pandemic is if you haven’t had another outbreak yet it’s only a matter of time!!

[SOPS]

An outbreak of 1. What a load of ****!
F U McCLown! I will not comply. Get F#%Ked!

And if it breaks out.. and we get locked down for a 100 days and you can’t fly, .. you will be ok with that?

[goodonyamate]

Probably has something to do with the condescending attitude from the WA Premier in particular towards all the eastern states when they’ve had an outbreak.....

and from a few of the WA posters here.....

yep there’s a little bit of karma for being such pricks to the rest of Australia. Especially those with the belief that WAxit is a real thing and you’d survive or even prosper once off the funding of the rest of us. To you, I say ‘eat it’.

to the rest of WA, it sucks, 5 days will be over before you know it. Do some stuff around the house, hang with the kids, and let’s get back to work ASAP.

[blubak]

Curiously I was in Sydney around the same time (2nd week of December), where I was also amazed at the lack of masks or distancing compared to Melbourne!
Even when the syd outbreak was at a critical level(just before xmas) i remember seeing hundreds of people at the fish markets & shopping centres not wearing masks or not standing apart.
I guess this is what happens though when people have a choice.
Im sure everyone is aware that in melbourne masks are still compulsory in shopping centres etc & its really odd to ever see someone not complying.
We would all rather not have to wear them but if it helps stop a case spreading or starting i am more than happy to do it & live as freely as possible.

[dr dre]

I will not comply. Get F#%Ked!

Great, could you please let us know how comfortable the seats are in the back of a paddy wagon, I’ve always wondered.

Also do they throw you into a big holding cell once you get to the station with a whole bunch of other arrestees just like in the movies?

By any chance could you also film your interaction with police when you are “not complying”, I do enjoy watching those “Karen” videos. Are you going to scream about your “constitutional rights” or claim you “don’t recognise the authority of the police”?

[Chronic Snoozer]

Great, could you please let us know how comfortable the seats are in the back of a paddy wagon, I’ve always wondered.

Also do they throw you into a big holding cell once you get to the station with a whole bunch of other arrestees just like in the movies?

By any chance could you also film your interaction with police when you are “not complying”, I do enjoy watching those “Karen” videos. Are you going to scream about your “constitutional rights” or claim you “don’t recognise the authority of the police”?

Won’t need to. He’ll just flash his ASIC. ;-)

[Ragnor]

It amazes me to see the joy people are
heaving at seeing an outbreak in WA.

Its not an outbreak, despite what McClown is feeding you.

[Keg]

"

The Australian Government has the capability to declare a human health response zone, as seen with evacuations of early quarantine cohorts to national facilities or State/Territory facilities gazetted for this purpose, including the Learmonth RAAF base or immigration detention facilities, and the Northern Territory’s Howard Springs facility.

Howard Springs is already being used. It is hardly a ‘remote isolation facility’ with decent hospitals and a decent size city with all their capability about a 20 minute drive away. You’re proposing Learmonth for goodness sake. Anything near to them that can deal with the sort of things we’re talking about? Imagine the outcry were we quarantining people in the sort of accommodation available at a bare base.

Oh but now you want to have staff on standby in case there is an outbreak, using the Flying Doc and introducing massive risk for them if they need to move people to a capital city hospital, doing FIFO for the quarantine the workers on site for the two weeks they’re working, then quarantine them somewhere else for two weeks (and what about the workers looking after these people who are now quarantining, what are the rules for them), before allowing them a couple of weeks back in the community? Plus you now need to organise a bunch of repat flights from all corners of the globe direct to this ‘remote place’.

Sure, we can solve this problem with truck loads of money and about 12 months to get suitable accomodation available at Learmonth for your idea. In the mean time we do precisely what with those trying to get back into Australia?

Come back to me when you’re fair dinkum dre.

[Keg]

And if it breaks out.. and we get locked down for a 100 days and you can’t fly, .. you will be ok with that?

Why should it ‘break out’? Northern beaches of Sydney had 30 cases in a single day on December 20. Meanwhile those of us in the Southern side of Sydney wore our masks, ensured social distancing, and got on with life. Less than six weeks later and we’ve had zero Covid for fourteen days. No lockdown required.

[jrfsp]

I mean we stick refugees with complex medical needs on Christmas Island / PNG etc.....

We have indigenous people living with complex medical needs in extremely remote communities that health care managed to serve......

And the "Celebs" are allowed to isolate at the country houses.....But no lets stick the return travellers in the CBD what a good idea

[dr dre]

Plus you now need to organise a bunch of repat flights from all corners of the globe direct to this ‘remote place’.


In that case the government should contract these flights to Australian airlines who are familiar with operating into remote CTAFs, rather than mostly use foreign carriers as is done now. This would be a benefit to Australian pilot jobs.

about 12 months to get suitable accomodation available


The Chinese managed to build a temporary hospital within 10 days. Why can't we erect temporary accommodation within a similar time frame, even in a more remote location? Or use existing mine accommodation as is being proposed in Queensland? Doesn't have to be a 5 star hotel, tented accommodation could probably suffice for most returnees.

My main point is the current system of storing returned travelers in CBD hotels is not working. So unless we want this to be happening for most of the year we're going to have to think of a solution. Some more concrete form of quarantine will have to be implemented, otherwise these events will keep occurring. One simple thing could be the paying of quarantine staff a decent salary so they don't need a second job and a housing allowance so they can rent a place alone for the duration of their contract. There's not going to be a solution to this that doesn't involve spending money.

[1A_Please]

Howard Springs is already being used. It is hardly a ‘remote isolation facility’ with decent hospitals and a decent size city with all their capability about a 20 minute drive away. You’re proposing Learmonth for goodness sake. Anything near to them that can deal with the sort of things we’re talking about? Imagine the outcry were we quarantining people in the sort of accommodation available at a bare base.

Oh but now you want to have staff on standby in case there is an outbreak, using the Flying Doc and introducing massive risk for them if they need to move people to a capital city hospital, doing FIFO for the quarantine the workers on site for the two weeks they’re working, then quarantine them somewhere else for two weeks (and what about the workers looking after these people who are now quarantining, what are the rules for them), before allowing them a couple of weeks back in the community? Plus you now need to organise a bunch of repat flights from all corners of the globe direct to this ‘remote place’.

Sure, we can solve this problem with truck loads of money and about 12 months to get suitable accomodation available at Learmonth for your idea. In the mean time we do precisely what with those trying to get back into Australia?

Come back to me when you’re fair dinkum dre.
The problem is that remote camps just won't have the capacity. Up until last week, international arrivals into hotel quarantine were capped at 4127 per week. This may increase on 15/2 but it is equally likely that WA will ask for a temporary suspension whilst it sorts out its outbreak of 1!

To get remote camps accepting these sorts of numbers per week (and even then we accept that this isn't enough), we would need a remote camp capacity of over 8000. Currently Howard Springs has a capacity of 600 which limits it to 300 arrivals per week though the government has announced a plan to increase capacity to 850. Those 300 per week are outside the hotel quarantine capacity limit.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Ms Berejiklian said health authorities were acting “quickly and swiftly” to screen all people who had arrived in NSW from WA since January 25, but maintained the need for a proportionate response. (That’s the term we’re looking for!)

“NSW has a standing policy of keeping our borders open, and that’s what we’ll continue to do.“Ms Berejiklian said authorities were still only aware of the single case in WA and were acting accordingly.

“Please judge NSW on our record of how we manage things here. It’s not for me to suggest what other premiers should do. I leave that up to them,” she said.

“McGowan serves, down 0-5, but Berejiklian absolutely smokes the return down the line. 0-40.”

Gladys’ Border Control (https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-tracking-wa-arrivals-but-border-will-stay-open-premier-20210201-p56ydo.html)

[jrfsp]

The comment on quarantine was the most interesting:
"In relation to Mr Dutton I want to make this point. He is the Minister for Home Affairs. They have the responsibility for quarantine under the Constitution. But he does not want to do that. So therefore, it has fallen to the states to perform the role that Mr Dutton should be performing under the Constitution. So he should not be criticising when we are doing the task he should be performing. Under the Constitution, quarantine, it is the responsibility of the Commonwealth -- section 15.
[The federal government has access to] Defence bases, Christmas Island, sometimes very remote places and they are not doing it and refused to do it so therefore the state is doing it so I urge Mr Dutton not to be a critic."

[currawong]

No of course not and you know it. Did you notice my feelings were directed and limited to “those individuals” who by the way on every occasion did not appear “fringe” in any way. From the times we understood the words, the abuse was about going back east, not that COVID is a myth.

I chose not to direct any feelings of karma towards the two policemen on a compliance check who berated the sleeping crew for not answering their doors at lunchtime in a timely manner when the crew had arrived at dawn and were leaving that evening. Nor any other people involved in other “interesting” WA COVID experiences too numerous to list.

Credit where it is due compressor stall, your opinion is based on your own personal experience.

I cannot fault you on that.

Your position is a giant leap ahead of many, who appear to be getting played by elements of the media.

Those that would orchestrate conflict for the sake of selling newspapers or clicks.

[Keg]

The very first ‘national cabinet’ made the decision that the states would handle the quarantine in the respective states. They had the capability which the federal government lacked at the scale required. The hospitals, the coppers, the contracts for security people, the processes, are all things that states do on a regular basis but the feds do not do across the nation.

So its a bit rich that having signed on to do this- thus ensuring the jobs go mostly to who the state Premiers wanted them to go to- that they now try and disown it when all of a sudden they’ve decided it’s too hard and they need to blame someone for locking down their state when they shouldn’t.

Dre, let me be very specific. Precisely what ‘remote location’ are you proposing for these quarantine facilities? 1A Please has already spoken of some of the logistic issues relating to the numbers of beds required so exactly where are you putting this new town that you want to knock up in 10 days or so?

Sure the Chinese cobbled together some shipping containers and called it a ‘hospital’ but I’m not sure that’s the sort of thing we should be considering when you’re going to lock people inside it for 14 days in the middle of nowhere during an Australia summer. Then again, I’m not sure the Australian people would be prepared to agree to the Chinese way of doing things when it comes to things like the environment, WHS, industrial relations, working hours, pay and conditions, etc.

[dr dre]

Keg, you seem to be good at poking holes in proposed solutions but don’t seem to willing to put up too many of your own. Even in your beloved NSW there have been lockdowns and restrictions on multiple occasions as a result of quarantine hotel breakouts (or in NSW’s case ignoring of government granted home quarantine).

A lot of prominent epidemiologists and leaders in Australia are calling for remote quarantine. Qld is investigating it. Have you a better idea? Should we quarantine hotel workers to the same hotel and pay them handsomely?

Unless we’re prepared to do this until a critical level of vaccination is reached? Maybe the Feds have run the numbers and have said it’s not worth it as vaccination will be coming quicker than originally proposed?

[Clare Prop]

We need to stop international arrivals altogether until there is a secure quarantine facility, preferably run by the Feds, for ALL arrivals to go to, a long way from capital cities. Time to stop propping up multi national hotel chains and face reality They are not designed as quarantine facilities and clearly not fit for that purpose.

When I was there late last year Christmas Is facility was full of ex-con non citizens who had been moved there from Northam and will remain there until their countries of citizenship agree to take them back. Rottnest Island has already been used as a quarantine facility when we had all the cruise ships arriving. Would be sad to have it shut off to the rest of us again but I think this will be the only way as a temporary fix until a purpose built federal run remote facility is available.

As for those of you who harbour such hatred towards us Sandgropers..why do you care if the borders are controlled if you hate this part of the country so much? Maybe we don't want that kind of spite and negativity here. Jealous that we have a budget in surplus maybe? McGowan is our elected leader, whatever you may think of him he is always consistant.

[SOPS]

I agree Clare. All International arrivals have to stop until they can be placed a long way from the city.

[1A_Please]

I agree Clare. All International arrivals have to stop until they can be placed a long way from the city.
The politics of doing this is very difficult so it won't happen. As I explained upthread, there is no likelihood of the remote capacity required to replace hotel quarantine will be available in the medium term. .

The whole purpose of track and trace is the ability to jump on any potential escapes. NSW showed it is possible and Qld also managed. Victoria was hopeless back in July but has spent significantly in duplicating NSW's systems since so hopefully is now under control. Even now, it looks like WA probably doesn't have an issue apart from a trigger-happy premier.

[dr dre]

The whole purpose of track and trace is the ability to jump on any potential escapes. NSW showed it is possible and Qld also managed. Victoria was hopeless back in July but has spent significantly in duplicating NSW's systems since so hopefully is now under control. Even now, it looks like WA probably doesn't have an issue apart from a trigger-happy premier.

You do realise all those outbreaks in all those states (plus SA) triggered various border restrictions and lockdowns? All of which affect harm domestic air travel? So for an airline employee the current track and trace for quarantine outbreak system is not working to allow confidence for travel bookings therefore from that point of view it needs to be changed.

[601]

about 12 months to get suitable accomodation available
Remember this company
They built an international airport in 18 months.
Already has internation flight operating there.
purpose-built quarantine facility (https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/01/wellcamp-airport-owner-pitches-purpose-built-quarantine-facility/)

[1A_Please]

You do realise all those outbreaks in all those states (plus SA) triggered various border restrictions and lockdowns? All of which affect harm domestic air travel? So for an airline employee the current track and trace for quarantine outbreak system is not working to allow confidence for travel bookings therefore from that point of view it needs to be changed.
Yes, but those closedowns were because of trigger-happy premiers not because there was a significant outbreak. The only potential outbreak since Victoria's troubles was NSW and they managed it well and it never got away from them. The only reason there was border closures in that case was because the premiers of Vic, SA, WA and Qld are bedwetters who don't trust their own systems and more interested in their approval ratings than their states' economies. Until we get past closing down as a first resort rather than last, air travel will continue to suffer.

[dr dre]

Well that's not going to happen. It's pretty clear by now what the response will be to a hotel outbreak. The solution is to stop the hotel outbreaks from occurring in crowded cities in the first place.

Remember this company
They built an international airport in 18 months.
Already has internation flight operating there.
purpose-built quarantine facility (https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/01/wellcamp-airport-owner-pitches-purpose-built-quarantine-facility/)

Yep that type of facility at Wellcamp is what we need to move towards.

[Green.Dot]

I’m kind of with Dre on this one. Yes logistically and financially it is a BIG undertaking. But throw enough money and resources at something and pay the right people enough $$$ to do fly in, fly out work and it CAN be done.

Given the number of similar hotel “scare” events we have had in a small number of months I suspect the $ invested would soon be recouped (vaccine or no vaccine), but this is purely speculation, like most of our thoughts.

[601]

Well that's not going to happen. It's pretty clear by now what the response will be to a hotel outbreak. The solution is to stop the hotel outbreaks from occurring in crowded cities in the first place.

We appear to have had three outbreaks from HQ of the more contagious strain, one in Brisbane, one in Perth and one in NZ.
The Perth one is too soon for a determination of how the breach occurred.
The method of the breach in Brisbane has not been released or they cannot determine how it happened and we are being mushrooms.
I have not seen any information as to how the NZ breach occurred..

Before any more increase in the numbers in HQ is made, we need to determine how these breached occurred and the changes made to prevent such breaches.

[currawong]

Regardless of where quarantine is, it is imperative that the staff quarantine as well.

Simple protocol that has somehow been overlooked from our bank of corporate knowledge this time around.

FIFO quarantine staff?

Single escapes will become plane loads of escapes.

No point in repeating and amplifying our current failures in a different location.

[WingNut60]

Before any more increase in the numbers in HQ is made, we need to determine how these breached occurred and the changes made to prevent such breaches.

Yes. I suspect that the lack of detail being made public about these events is as much because of the potential embarrassment to those controlling as it is embarrassment to those being controlled.

[Green.Dot]

Regardless of where quarantine is, it is imperative that the staff quarantine as well.
.

Yeah agreed, I should have been clearer, I was implying 14 day quarantine for staff after their 2 week shift etc. 1 month on, 1 month off, you will get no shortage of staff paid 200k. It’s small bikkies in the grand scheme of things.

[Foxxster]

Yeah agreed, I should have been clearer, I was implying 14 day quarantine for staff after their 2 week shift etc. 1 month on, 1 month off, you will get no shortage of staff paid 200k. It’s small bikkies in the grand scheme of things.

i imagine then that not only would the inbound passengers have to be confined to their Individual rooms for the duration of their quarantine but so would the staff guarding them, cleaning etc.

That is once they return to their own quarters. After all if one of them becomes infected, they would then spread it to the rest of the guards if they are all living in their own compound and allowed to eat together and otherwise socialise.

But then who guards them?

[compressor stall]

But then who guards them?

Easy: You have another set of guards to guard the guards at the end of their shifts and during their 2 week isolation at the end of their rotation. You will get away with a few less guards though per shift. Then you need another set of guards to guard the guards guarding the guards. And so on. Then at the end of the conga line of duty guards, you have, as W.E. Bowman of Rumdoodle fame described, a small boy guarding himself.

[Keg]

Even in your beloved NSW there have been lockdowns and restrictions on multiple occasions as a result of quarantine hotel breakouts (or in NSW’s case ignoring of government granted home quarantine).

What state are you in? Certainly not NSW! There has been one lockdown since May last year. It was the northern beaches on December 20 when they had 30 cases in a day. It was one region in a city of 6 million. Other than that there has been social distancing and mandated mask wearing in shops- the latter only for about a month.

All in all, life is pretty normal for these times and certainly shouldn’t be classed as ‘lockdowns or restrictions on multiple occasions’.


A lot of prominent epidemiologists and leaders in Australia are calling for remote quarantine.

By definition epidemiologists are not experts in logistics. Their purview also doesn’t take into account the other myriad costs of their advice. It is for politicians to take their advice, weigh it up with the various costs and plans in place and make a decision. So far our politicians have shown to be mostly pretty woeful with lots of knee jerk panic and very little leadership. Only have to listen McGowan press conference to see that in action.

Should we quarantine hotel workers to the same hotel and pay them handsomely?

Perhaps but I don’t have a good handle on the numbers of people they’re using at each hotel, how they’re rostered, what the testing regime is like, how they go about cleaning, what the risk profile is for individual workers, etc. Perhaps I’ll leave that one to the experts.

I do know that building suitable accommodation for quarantining people in Learmonth is going to take a long time, cost a lot of money, decrease the risk to the cities somewhat (yay!), create significant hardship on individual workers, create some hardship on towns, stretch regional infrastructure to the limit, etc.

I do laugh at the isolations requirements forced on crew returning from Covid ‘hotspots’ like Narita, Singapore, Shanghai and Hong Kong given the precautions crew are taking whilst there but in the mean time the security bloke working directly with infected people is allowed to roam around the country side and WA hadn’t even instituted daily testing despite agreeing 2 1/2 weeks earlier that they’d get onto that.

[plainmaker]

I note with some interest some of the proposals being promulgated here. The use of mining villages would be a nightmare. The purpose of quarantine is to isolate the infected person from the community, AND ALSO from every other person in the same facility. Anyone who has worked FIFO at a mining compound will know just how claustrophobic Dongas are, and would be quite unsuitable for isolation purposes.

Think facilities that (a) offer a modicum of comfort (you are going to spend 14 days cooped up); (b) have a series of rooms that can isolate persons from one another (even floors) and (c0 offer the logistics of rapid medical intervention if needed plus food and ancillary support. So the Hotel property close to to the entry point seems the most logical option (unless you utilise all the unoccupied prison cells - dooh! there are few of those and even then most 'inmates' are not in lockdown 24/7.

The mismanagement of quarantine has been about the human factors - minimum wage individuals working 'security'. Perhaps an ADF/Borderforce management would be the better option.

Those who propose regional / remote locations (including for crew) - be careful what you wish for.

[jrfsp]

You do realise that Howard Springs is essentially dongas?

[PoppaJo]

I recall Qatar and Emirates saying they are not coming here if inbound arrivals are heading to the bush. NSW Government also had issues working with the International Airlines also saying, it’s all too hard, we are not coming. And that was just sorting out hotel arrangements, let alone other extreme proposals.

Can’t cut off the freight corridors, the numbers some are pulling in are huge. Outbound is also significant for some at the moment.

Hundreds of flight crews are still overnighting in the major capitals daily. The risk is still alive.

[dr dre]

I recall Qatar and Emirates saying they are not coming here if inbound arrivals are heading to the bush.


Great opportunity for Australian airlines with knowledge and experience of remote aerodrome operations to fill the gap, increase Australian pilot employment and gain some leverage for more sensible crew quarantine arrangements.

[neville_nobody]

Great opportunity for Australian airlines with knowledge and experience of remote aerodrome operations to fill the gap, increase Australian pilot employment and gain some leverage for more sensible crew quarantine arrangements.



Problem will be additional to the expense is you are then putting many more Cabin Crew and to a lesser extent Pilots, at risk of Covid. Anyone who does the charter will then be quarantined for two weeks.

However if the state governments of Australia want to play the zero Covid game then this is what it will cost. Maybe they can starting footing the bill for their policies this time around.

[Global Aviator]

It is pretty much what QF are doing with the repat charters to Darwin is it not? Problem is they are few and far between.

I read the last flight had 144 pax, previously 172 pax?

The limit is Howard Springs not having capacity. It is currently at 600? Looking to go to 850? It is a 3000 bed facility so why not ramp up staff and logistics and use it? It’s there, it’s built. There are also other ex worker camps around the country that could be utilised. Get the inbound charters to use the facilities.

Keep the required airlines coming with a handful of pax, cargo and outbound options.

The above immediately reduces the amount of pax requiring capital city quarantine, thus in less numbers it would be less risk?

QF, JQ and Virgin would love the 1000+ people a week coming out of quarantine and needing to get a domestic flight south.

In a situation like the above everyone is a winner.

[jrfsp]

While its still early in the piece, it seems WA Gov have done a good job of standing up testing capacity and contact tracing, contrary to all the naysayer's posts

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

There is no way that the airlines bringing people back home - those being almost entirely foreign airlines (because Aussie ones (and there's really only one) will not do it because there is no money in it) - will fly directly to a remote point in the GAFA with a minuscule capped pax load if there is nothing there for them to take out again ie full pax load or freight. That's all that's keeping them doing it out the capital cities now.
Great opportunity for Australian airlines with knowledge and experience of remote aerodrome operations to fill the gap
Which Australian airlines who also have the ability to operate long haul international would they be? As I said, we now only have one airline capable of international operations. The idea that the Aus Govt will charter innumerable QF flights (at great QF demanded expense) to cherrypicked destinations overseas at the frequency the foreign carriers are currently flying is ludicrous.

[KRviator]

While its still early in the piece, it seems WA Gov have done a good job of standing up testing capacity and contact tracing, contrary to all the naysayer's postsA total of 3,171 coronavirus tests were conducted in WA yesterday, compared to the daily average of about 500, after a hotel security guard working at the Four Points by Sheraton Perth tested positive to coronavirus.Source (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJdMUlWUnHc&feature=youtu.be)3,171 tests in 24 hours and they're skiting about that? :rolleyes: When they can get above 10,000 tests a day people might sit up and take notice, but until then, the whole "Look how good we've done!" commentary from McGoose & his lackeys is nauseating. NSW is still pushing over 10,000 tests a day without the threat of an outbreak. And at the height of the latest NSW outbreak they were a bees d!ck from cracking 70,000 tests in a day.

3,000 tests a day - when you've active community transmission and are concerned about it really getting out in the community? Pi$$-weak if you ask me.

[StudentInDebt]

3,171 tests in 24 hours and they're skiting about that? :rolleyes: When they can get above 10,000 tests a day people might sit up and take notice, but until then, the whole "Look how good we've done!" commentary from McGoose & his lackeys is nauseating. NSW is still pushing over 10,000 tests a day without the threat of an outbreak. And at the height of the latest NSW outbreak they were a bees d!ck from cracking 70,000 tests in a day.

3,000 tests a day - when you've active community transmission and are concerned about it really getting out in the community? Pi$$-weak if you ask me.There were c16,500 tests conducted yesterday, are you sitting up yet?

[Ragnor]

McClown said 15,000 test were conducted in the last 24hrs, and in his arrogance compared it to Sydney’s Avalon saying theirs is higher testing rate per capita. This guy is a real clown.

I wouldn’t trust this clown either, he waited 11hrs to tell gov there was a case which is against covid protocol. I will cover up any further positives.

[Ladloy]

McClown said 15,000 test were conducted in the last 24hrs, and in his arrogance compared it to Sydney’s Avalon saying theirs is higher testing rate per capita. This guy is a real clown.

I wouldn’t trust this clown either, he waited 11hrs to tell gov there was a case which is against covid protocol. I will cover up any further positives.
The response of the government and public has been applauded and praised. The only criticism should be the worker having a second job.

[compressor stall]

The response of the government abd public has been applauded and praised. The only criticism should be the worker having a second job.

Que? Why hang it on the worker? He was permitted to have a second job (admittedly not for much longer). And praise the Government? What?? The WA Government should be copping a barrage for not introducing best practices from other states in a timely manner, although admittedly in this case they are very lucky the worker had apparently not worked the second uber driver job.

If I was running the inquiry, I'd be questioning the disparity between the extensive PPE worn by the AUSMAT team and others in the lobby vs the minimal level of PPE issued to the security guards in the less ventilated confines of the corridors.

[Ladloy]

Que? Why hang it on the worker? He was permitted to have a second job (admittedly not for much longer). And praise the Government? What?? The WA Government should be copping a barrage for not introducing best practices from other states in a timely manner, although admittedly in this case they are very lucky the worker had apparently not worked the second uber driver job.

If I was running the inquiry, I'd be questioning the disparity between the extensive PPE worn by the AUSMAT team and others in the lobby vs the minimal level of PPE issued to the security guards in the less ventilated confines of the corridors.
Sorry I'll rephrase, allowing the worker to have a second job. In terms of copping a barrage, didn't see Gladys cop one for the Northern Beaches

[Icarus2001]

Whether the worker had a second job...... mmmmm..... even if that was not the case, soon by regulation, then they can still go drinking, eating, socialising etc which entails contacting lots of people. Alternatively their second job may involve less contact with other people by its very nature, after hours console operator at a no service station for example.
The guy had a second job and was allowed to, not his fault.

[Ragnor]

Let’s see if McIdiot can publicly thank Gladys for the use our water bombers, she was kind to send one over today.

[NumptyAussie]

Let’s see if McIdiot can publicly thank Gladys for the use our water bombers, she was kind to send one over today.

Possibly Gladys is returning the favour?

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/McGowan/2019/11/WA-firefighters-providing-much-needed-relief-for-NSW-and-QLD.aspx

[dr dre]

Possibly Gladys is returning the favour?

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/McGowan/2019/11/WA-firefighters-providing-much-needed-relief-for-NSW-and-QLD.aspx

Too true Numpty, despite the bovine excrement that has been dished out between states both in and out of this forum, when chips are down we help each other out. Even with the pandemic teams of nurses were sent from WA to assist Victoria at the height of their outbreak.

[jrfsp]

Let’s see if McIdiot can publicly thank Gladys for the use our water bombers, she was kind to send one over today.

Just when i thought the thread couldnt get any lower....I thought all Australians knew that bushfires are off limits for making making political jokes / jibes.

Thankfully the fire authorities across the country (and internationally) have a long history of co-operation and helping each other. Also the air firefighting fleet is managed by the NAFC and receives funding support from the Australian Government as well as State and Territory Governments. (But yes the 737 is directly purchased by NSW and is available for loan by other states
https://nafc.org.au/

[SOPS]

Now there is a possible leak in a hotel in Victoria. These international arrivals are definitely the weak link. I don’t have the answer.. but the hotel system is causing problems.

[SOPS]

Well.. here we go again. And listening to the places the person has been, was he/ she driving an Uber?

[jrfsp]

Well.. here we go again. And listening to the places the person has been, was he/ she driving an Uber?

Indeed...this is becoming madness. We need to stop all incoming arrivals ASAP until we have a purpose built system.

[TimmyTee]

How many transmission cases have occurred at the Howard Springs facility? Maybe there's something to it..

[Fonz121]

This just in: Person who works daily with potential Covid cases gets Covid.

Who cares? Deal with it NSW style and get on with it.

[dr dre]

Who cares? Deal with it NSW style and get on with it.

Which still involved restrictions, lockdowns, isolation and testing requirements which affects confidence for travel.

Hate to sound like a broken record but the person wouldn’t be travelling all over the city after work if they weren’t in a city......

[McLimit]

Which still involved restrictions, lockdowns, isolation and testing requirements which affects confidence for travel.

- Targeted, rational, pragmatic lockdowns.
- Rational, proportional, pragmatic restrictions.
- Contact traced isolation, risk based isolation.
- Outstanding community response to testing requested from leaders, not hysterical premiers.
- Confidence dented by hysterical, politically motivated, non-leaders.

[Dannyboy39]

- Targeted, rational, pragmatic lockdowns.
- Rational, proportional, pragmatic restrictions.
- Contact traced isolation, risk based isolation.
- Outstanding community response to testing requested from leaders, not hysterical premiers.
- Confidence dented by hysterical, politically motivated, non-leaders.
100%. You can’t shut the world down for one case.
1000 people in the Australian Open bubble in isolation due to one worker case. They clearly wouldn’t have all come into contact within them... probably not even 1%.

[McLimit]

100%. You can’t shut the world down for one case.

Oh yes you can brutha. Hysterical, non-proportionate rot.

[Australopithecus]

All of those targeted, rational, proportionate measures are great until other states shut their borders. Which leaves us in the same quagmire of endless shutdowns and vanishing travel demand.

Absolutely all of the human and economic disaster of the past year is a direct result of wishful, magical thinking on the part of our governments. Time to restrict international quarantine to dedicated facilities.

[Sunfish]

Dannyboy: 100%. You can’t shut the world down for one case.
1000 people in the Australian Open bubble in isolation due to one worker case. They clearly wouldn’t have all come into contact within them... probably not even 1%.


Maths wasn't your strong subject at school was it?

You can shut down now for one discovered case for perhaps 14 days, or,

You can ignore that one case for the next two weeks and then shut the whole State down for three to six months while we try to deal with the hundreds of cases that one case has spawned.


Your choice.

[KRviator]

Absolutely all of the human and economic disaster of the past year is a direct result of wishful, magical thinking on the part of most of our governments.Fixed it. It got out in Victoria in a big way. It's got out in NSW, Qld and WA as well. The only rational response out of all of the HQ outbreaks was from Gladys with the targeted lockdown of the Insular Peninsula while keeping the rest of the city (and borders) open. Granted she took about 9 months too long to mandate masks on transport and the like, but that is a preventative measure to guard against an outbreak, not a response to one.

There comes a point where someone has to call time on goings-on.

Doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different result is madness. Note that, so far as I'm aware, neither NSW Health, Qld Health or the mob in WA can positively tell you how it got out of HQ! And it looks like it might be the same in Mexico as well.

If they don't know how it spread in "quarantine" then how can they stop it in the future? And that being the case, if they are not assured they can prevent it in the future, any ongoing HQ is a pointless exercise so long as you have trigger-happy politicians playing God with their borders and the Australian people - because when it does get out again, as it most certainly will, there goes the border, there goes travel, weddings, funerals and jobs.

The simple, though politically incorrect & unpalatable answer, to me seems to be an immediate halt on all international passenger arrivals. Yes, we will still need HQ for the aircrew on freighters, but that is a tiny percentage of that required now, and their time here in quarantine is maybe 10% of that of passengers, with consequent lower interaction with the hotel staff & guards, etc.

[dr dre]

A factor which prompted a different health response between states was the NSW Northern Beaches outbreak was not of the new more transmissible mutation, whereas the WA and Qld ones were.

With the new mutation obviously defeating previous quarantine protocols new measures will have to be looked at.

[Deaf]

Interesting timing in Vic- seems to have taken debate on extension of state of emergency off the table

[chookcooker]

If only there was a vaccine for this virus.....

[Ragnor]

We have all worked our butts off to we pretty much had eradicate the virus, but the leak in the international arrivals causing the WA cases. DA of Vic however has purposely trucked in 1500 internationals for the tennis causing the latest. When does it stop

[Australopithecus]

If only there was a vaccine for this virus.....​​​​​​

...available now, in sufficient quantity, and with enough time to have an effect. Even with all of that though, international arrivals will still leak virus out of quarantine facilities and the unvaccinated will still be at risk. The only way forward is a wider air gap between the arrivals and the public.

[chookcooker]

I must be imagining that europe and the USA are vaccinating at immense rates currently. They must be magicking up all their stock.
US alone has administered over 30,000,000 shots to our..... 0
but yes, it’ was absolutely impossible to hasten the process.
We announced we wouldn’t approve the vaccines until feb and the drug makers allocated stock accordingly.

[Global Aviator]

How many transmission cases have occurred at the Howard Springs facility? Maybe there's something to it..

Well said! Plenty of cases IN Howard Springs but none that I’ve heard jumping to the workers. HS is always going to get cases due to the nature of where the flights are coming from.

Alas it seems to work.

Ramp up HS to maximum capacity!!!

[Icarus2001]

With the new mutation obviously defeating previous quarantine protocols new measures will have to be looked at. Again...here we are five days after his positive test (Saturday night) and still no more cases. Try a rough cost benefit analysis on closing all businesses, closing schools, stopping FIFO shift changes and preventing people leaving Perth to holiday around the state. Imagine a rough number. Now weigh that against one security guard who at most had contact with 189 people. 138 of which have tested negative so far. Mind boggling over reaction. Is that an election I see over there...

[neville_nobody]

Again...here we are five days after his positive test (Saturday night) and still no more cases. Try a rough cost benefit analysis on closing all businesses, closing schools, stopping FIFO shift changes and preventing people leaving Perth to holiday around the state. Imagine a rough number. Now weigh that against one security guard who at most had contact with 189 people. 138 of which have tested negative so far. Mind boggling over reaction. Is that an election I see over there...


But you can't put a price on everyones safety.............

Interestingly they locked up his housemates in quarantine (not in their own home) yet they hadn't tested positive but McGowan was absolutely sure that they will test positive in the near future. Here we are five days later and still nothing anywhere, let alone his close contacts.

[compressor stall]

What is becoming evident is that at times the UK strain is insanely infectious, but most of the other time it would appear not to be.

ie. Local and internationally, people have repeatedly picked it up in Q with no face to face contact, yet have not (to date) spread it widely themselves in society, despite being in a position of being able to do so..

AUNZ are probably in a unique position to monitor this as the outbreaks here as so isolated that the pathways of transmission are able to be determined.

[neville_nobody]

Any chance of false positives?? I don't really understand the ins and outs of the covid testing, however it seems strange that someone can get a highly contagious strain remotely but not be able to spread it to their close contacts.

[SOPS]

WA has just shut its borders to Victoria again. You can come but will require to Q for 14 days, was not clear if you will need permission to come to WA.

[Chad Gates]

SOPS

Just for clarification, WA haven’t shut the border again, they are just not moving to the very low risk category that was scheduled to happen tonight. So all stays as is for now.

[SOPS]

SOPS

Just for clarification, WA haven’t shut the border again, they are just not moving to the very low risk category that was scheduled to happen tonight. So all stays as is for now.

Thanks for that.. 👍👍

[WingNut60]

Interestingly they locked up his housemates in quarantine (not in their own home) yet they hadn't tested positive but McGowan was absolutely sure that they will test positive in the near future. .........
Based on reports from the UK and elsewhere, that was a perfectly reasonable assumption.
What would not have been reasonable was to presume the opposite.

That they have not tested positive (so far) simply points to the behaviour of the virus being perverse.

[Dannyboy39]

But you can't put a price on everyone’s safety.
Yes indeed. I will wear a stab proof vest and body armour when crossing the road tomorrow.

[Icarus2001]

But you can't put a price on everyones safety............. I am pretty sure you have your tongue in cheek there. Everything has a price, everything.

Todays latest numbers...In total, 191 close contacts have now been linked to the security guard's case, and 156 have tested negative.Another 258 casual contacts have been identified and 200 of those have tested negative.

From here...https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-04/wa-records-no-new-local-coronavirus-cases-for-fourth-day/13121834

[McLimit]

Maths wasn't your strong subject at school was it?

And evidence wasn't yours obviously.

You can shut down now for one discovered case for perhaps 14 days, or,

You can ignore that one case for the next two weeks and then shut the whole State down for three to six months while we try to deal with the hundreds of cases that one case has spawned.

So everything you constantly mouth off about regarding risk doesn't apply here? Your blind fear is pathetic, it's embarrassing.

The clown in WA is making an absolute fool of himself, meanwhile, your hero in Melbourne appears to have taken a leaf out of Glady's book. If he locks down Melbourne again his hero status will disappear quick smart, apart from the fact that his blatant hypocrisy, choosing money over public health with the tennis, but he didn't months ago. Then again, with people like you panicking the way you are, I'd lock you up as well.

So many contradictions from your heroes, must be confusing for you?

Your choice.

Well clearly it's not our choice.

[compressor stall]

Any chance of false positives?? I don't really understand the ins and outs of the covid testing, however it seems strange that someone can get a highly contagious strain remotely but not be able to spread it to their close contacts.
If they're getting a genome match I don't think that there could be a false positive (unless the two were side by side in the lab....)

[blubak]

Dannyboy:

Maths wasn't your strong subject at school was it?

You can shut down now for one discovered case for perhaps 14 days, or,

You can ignore that one case for the next two weeks and then shut the whole State down for three to six months while we try to deal with the hundreds of cases that one case has spawned.


Your choice.
Yes cant argue with that scenario,again no arguing the initial hotel quarantine stuff up here in vic but right now the govt are dammed if they do & dammed if they dont.
Heard a political points scoring statement from the vic opp leader stating Andrews took too long to make his announcement last night,maybe just maybe he still had facts/data coming in.
Theres always people who think they can do better(& maybe they can) but whether u like him or not i believe andrews is doing his utmost right now to stop any spread.
Hes not perfect by any means but for f sake,to those who think they can do better & put politics before fact,just look at what other countries are going through right now,its not a free world anywhere & relatively speaking the alternative is not great.

[maxter]

Was Morrison 'trigger-happy' to shut down travel to NZ over just 1 case?

[1A_Please]

Was Morrison 'trigger-happy' to shut down travel to NZ over just 1 case?
He shut down travel from NZ; travel to NZ has never been quarantine-free at the choice of NZ Govt.

Andrews won't go to shutdown on this outbreak as shutting down will mean he has no choice but to admit the tennis was a mistake and he would have to cancel it.

[Deaf]

He shut down travel from NZ; travel to NZ has never been quarantine-free at the choice of NZ Govt.

Andrews won't go to shutdown on this outbreak as shutting down will mean he has no choice but to admit the tennis was a mistake and he would have to cancel it.

Fiona Patten said no more blank cheque - 12hrs later outbreak

[Ragnor]

I wish chairman DA would put as much effort into Australians getting back to work as he is for the AO international players.

[Keg]

A factor which prompted a different health response between states was the NSW Northern Beaches outbreak was not of the new more transmissible mutation, whereas the WA and Qld ones were.

And yet the QLD one yielded only one or two additional cases- all close contacts already in isolation with the patient zero- despite the original HQ worker travelling on public transport for a few days whilst infectious.

So far the ‘highly transmissible’ case in Perth who travelled all over the city has yielded precisely zero additional cases. Sure it may be another few days before a case or two emerge but it appears that

With the new mutation obviously defeating previous quarantine protocols new measures will have to be looked at.

You’d like to think so because the current system of locking down cities for a week at a time for a single case isn’t going to cut the mustard going forward. Interesting to note too that from Friday Perth transitions to virtually their previous protocols. This means a crew arriving from NSW on Saturday is still required to isolate (for up to 14 days but probably only a week until the end of the 28 day cycle) because of the status that WA still has NSW in. This is despite the fact WA had a case roaming the community less than a fortnight ago. It’s complete BS.

[Icarus2001]

Exactly Keg, there is no consistency or overall logic but our leaders have the cheek to say that they are following medical advice, as they all do something different.

[KRviator]

Exactly Keg, there is no consistency or overall logic but our leaders have the cheek to say that they are following medical advice, as they all do something different.I'm reminded of a joke I read somewhere maaany years ago.

A bloke goes to a party with his Doctor wife and gets talking to the other quacks. He casually mentions he's got a pain in the chest occasionally.
The cardiac specialist says "It could be angina which can lead to a heart attack, you'd better come and see me next week!"
The Orthopaedic specialist says "It could be anything from a cracked rib to a spinal injury, you'd better come and see me next week as well!"
The Oncologist says "It could be cancer or a tumour, you'd better come and see me next week, too!"
His wife overhears the conversation and casually says "It's just heartburn, the silly bugger knows what causes it, but won't stop eating spicy food, no matter how much I tell him not too! A glass of Gaviscon and he's right as rain!

The problem with blindly following what a CHO describes as "Medical advice" is it is just that. Medical advice. It does not consider the broader socio-economic consequences of that advice! And that is where the Premiers need to have the cojones to say "the medical advice says <This> but the consequences of following that advice will lead to <That> so we're going to compromise and do <This> instead". In a similar vein Scone Airport recently tried to implement an 8-foot-high, barb-wire-topped fence between the airport and residential properties adjoining the airport, based on the recommendations of a "wildlife expert". The Council's own data showed there was less than 1 roo on the airport per month. Several residents argued against the proposal in the Council meeting, that the proposal was bollocks and Council agreed, overruling the recommendations in the "expert report" and going with a 5-foot fence. The point being, just because someone is an "expert" at something doesn't make them right! Experts built the Titanic, a lone amateur (reportedly) built the ark.....

Anyway, if the Politicians (and CHO's) were "sooooo concerned" with preventing fatalities, they would immediately ban tobacco products, a proven cause of many thousands of Australian deaths every single year! But will they? Pfft! Not a chance. Why? Because 5000+ deaths from smoking is socially acceptable. 1000+ deaths in motor accidents is socially acceptable for the convenience of the motor car - yet we blindly accept lockdowns & border closures on "medical advice" when the health system is capable of handling the expected case load should we not do any of those things.

So why is COVID different to the previous norms?

[DHC8 Driver]

I'm reminded of a joke I read somewhere maaany years ago.

A bloke goes to a party with his Doctor wife and gets talking to the other quacks. He casually mentions he's got a pain in the chest occasionally.
The cardiac specialist says "It could be angina which can lead to a heart attack, you'd better come and see me next week!"
The Orthopaedic specialist says "It could be anything from a cracked rib to a spinal injury, you'd better come and see me next week as well!"
The Oncologist says "It could be cancer or a tumour, you'd better come and see me next week, too!"
His wife overhears the conversation and casually says "It's just heartburn, the silly bugger knows what causes it, but won't stop eating spicy food, no matter how much I tell him not too! A glass of Gaviscon and he's right as rain!

The problem with blindly following what a CHO describes as "Medical advice" is it is just that. Medical advice. It does not consider the broader socio-economic consequences of that advice! And that is where the Premiers need to have the cojones to say "the medical advice says <This> but the consequences of following that advice will lead to <That> so we're going to compromise and do <This> instead". In a similar vein Scone Airport recently tried to implement an 8-foot-high, barb-wire-topped fence between the airport and residential properties adjoining the airport, based on the recommendations of a "wildlife expert". The Council's own data showed there was less than 1 roo on the airport per month. Several residents argued against the proposal in the Council meeting, that the proposal was bollocks and Council agreed, overruling the recommendations in the "expert report" and going with a 5-foot fence. The point being, just because someone is an "expert" at something doesn't make them right! Experts built the Titanic, a lone amateur (reportedly) built the ark.....

Anyway, if the Politicians (and CHO's) were "sooooo concerned" with preventing fatalities, they would immediately ban tobacco products, a proven cause of many thousands of Australian deaths every single year! But will they? Pfft! Not a chance. Why? Because 5000+ deaths from smoking is socially acceptable. 1000+ deaths in motor accidents is socially acceptable for the convenience of the motor car - yet we blindly accept lockdowns & border closures on "medical advice" when the health system is capable of handling the expected case load should we not do any of those things.

So why is COVID different to the previous norms?

The answer is simple. The numbers in Australia are low because of the restrictions being implemented around the country. The goal is to avoid the situations playing out in the USA and UK.

[601]

So far the ‘highly transmissible’ case in Perth who travelled all over the city has yielded precisely zero additional cases. Sure it may be another few days before a case or two emerge but it appears that

Maybe the ‘highly transmissible' is not applicable in hot weather.

[WingNut60]

Maybe the ‘highly transmissible' is not applicable in hot weather.
A very good point. I am sure that there are others left wondering right now how you can have a person infected with the B117 variant, living in close contact with three others and who went on what can only be described as a comprehensive jaunt around a good portion of the Perth metropolitan area over a period of several days and did not pass the contagion on to another single person.
As I said yesterday. This is perverse.

[Icarus2001]

KRviator you are spot on with your analysis of experts in my opinion. Expert advice in context! That is how we ended up with compulsory bicycle helmets in Australia when the rest of the world mostly manages without such rules. Medical advice was they should be mandatory and no user group was powerful enough to lobby against the AMA advice.
The answer is simple. The numbers in Australia are low because of the restrictions being implemented around the country. The goal is to avoid the situations playing out in the USA and UK.
I understand that but come on, ONE CASE in Perth and nearly 200 contacts of his test negative and they still are locked down. Madness. McGowan is playing to the WA anti East coast sentiment and has his eye on a landslide at the election.

[dr dre]

And yet the QLD one yielded only one or two additional cases- all close contacts already in isolation with the patient zero- despite the original HQ worker travelling on public transport for a few days whilst infectious.

The report into that case hasn't been released yet, but the worker may have been aware of their position, they mask have worn a mask, socially distanced, limited their interactions with others. But what we do know is that strain B.1.1.7 is more transmissible if it spreads unchecked into the community (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7003e2.htm). It's much easier to contact trace the close contacts of one case than three. I think the WA government also admitted lowers levels of social distancing in WA factored into their decision making, and not having a real world experience of contact tracing as well. Maybe it'll be different if it happens again?

So far the ‘highly transmissible’ case in Perth who travelled all over the city has yielded precisely zero additional cases.


Again, he may have been cognizant of his possible status and socially distanced. A majority of those infected are not "super spreaders" (https://www.6pr.com.au/why-wa-has-dodged-a-bullet-amid-patient-903-mystery/). I do know that if there was a spread of this more transmissible variant in the community the same people who are criticising governments for being too strict would then be complaining that the government failed to pull out all stops to prevent it.

You’d like to think so because the current system of locking down cities for a week at a time for a single case isn’t going to cut the mustard going forward. Interesting to note too that from Friday Perth transitions to virtually their previous protocols. This means a crew arriving from NSW on Saturday is still required to isolate (for up to 14 days but probably only a week until the end of the 28 day cycle) because of the status that WA still has NSW in. This is despite the fact WA had a case roaming the community less than a fortnight ago. It’s complete BS.

Perth isn't "virtually going back to their previous protocols", masks will still be required for a week. And resident domestic aircrews are exempt from the 14 day isolation from NSW into WA. Yes it changes.

At times on this forum I've been accused of not being sympathetic to the plight of air crew who want regular air travel resumed ASAP. Nothing is further from the truth, I want that too. I'm just aware that the new variant getting into the community will probably cause more grief overall than limited restrictions being applied to keep community cases at zero.

If remote quarantine is too hard for some maybe purpose built facilities on the outskirts of cities? Looking at the aircon and airflow in these facilities? Looking at restricting workers to the facility whilst working there and then a quarantine period after with limited movement when they are off duty? Deliver food to their home so they don't have to visit every supermarket in the city? Provide them a self contained apartment so they can live alone? Just trying to think of some solutions to this current hotel quarantine mess.

Of course the ultimate solution is immunisation. I suspect the true reason the Feds aren't too keen on remote quarantine is they've seen the effects of immunisation programs in countries like Israel, which first started vaccinating just 6 weeks ago, and possibly have done the sums and figured out it's cheaper to just accept a few more CBD hotel breakouts before a critical level of vaccination is reached rather than construct purpose built facilities. Already there seems to be cautiously optimistic talk this week of an earlier than expected opening of international borders, it seems the large scale effects of vaccination are better than hoped.
​​​​​​
​​​
Madness. McGowan is playing to the WA anti East coast sentiment and has his eye on a landslide at the election.

This is a bit of a side issue for me but I do find it a bit hypocritical that the side of politics which usually complains about governments pandering to minorities and minorities having too much say in the political process is now complaining that a government is acting on the wishes of the overwhelming majority. Not nice to be in a minority is it?

[WingNut60]

I understand that but come on, ONE CASE in Perth and nearly 200 contacts of his test negative and they still are locked down. .......

OK, so how many cases of the B117 variant do you think are necessary in the wild before you implement a lock-down?
Would your answer be "Never", by any chance?

If so, please refer Melbourne statistics June thru October.

[jrfsp]

So far the topic of reopening the international border has not been brought up. Under what circumstance will this happen unrestricted?

Im thinking it could be well into next year

[Global Aviator]

International borders??? Who has a crystal ball! :{

[Icarus2001]

OK, so how many cases of the B117 variant do you think are necessary in the wild before you implement a lock-down?
Would your answer be "Never", by any chance? Ten is a nice number.

If a couple of his contacts tested positive then there is a trend, which means more can be expected.
Also think about the travelers FROM WA who are in quarantine in other states based on ONE infection in Perth a week ago. Should they be allowed out of their 14 day quarantine given Perth comes out today at 6pm WST?

[DHC8 Driver]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-05/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid19-national-cabinet/13122610


Multi-million dollar quarantine facility to be built near Toowoomba? Unrestricted opening of international borders is a dream.

[Ragnor]

AstraZeneca vaccine is set to have full approval by next week was reported today. That could speed travel up. It was good to hear the PM speak about acceptable levels of the virus moving forward. Covid needs to be treated like any other disease once the vaccine rolls out.

[Chronic Snoozer]

The report into that case hasn't been released yet, but the worker may have been aware of their position, they mask have worn a mask, socially distanced, limited their interactions with others. But what we do know is that strain B.1.1.7 is more transmissible if it spreads unchecked into the community (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7003e2.htm). It's much easier to contact trace the close contacts of one case than three. I think the WA government also admitted lowers levels of social distancing in WA factored into their decision making, and not having a real world experience of contact tracing as well. Maybe it'll be different if it happens again?

It may be more transmissible but the measures to keep it at bay are largely the same. I argue that compliance with existing hygiene protocols is the issue. The premiers are not helping themselves by using hyperbole to justify their actions. The federal government finally mandated mask wearing in airports and on flights when this could have been done months ago without having to learn of a ‘new, highly transmissible strain’ of COVID. The introduction of mandatory negative COVID tests before travel to Australia could have been enacted prior to Jan 2021.

In light of this we learn that in the WA quarantine hotel, there were a mixture of quarantining travellers and other guests, and no mandatory mask-wearing for security guards. Don’t you think we deserve better risk management than that from Health Departments given what we already have learned from a number of serious outbreaks? If you put someone in a dead boring job for 12 hours straight, how long does it take for them to violate one of the protocols, even innocently, due to the lack of stimulus in that role? Perhaps if there was better supervision of existing protocol compliance the entire SW Australian seaboard would not have needed lockdown. The lockdown feels over-compensatory in light of latent basic errors in quarantine management.

As for WA allegedly not having real world experience in contact tracing, come again? They’ve had 10 months of no COVID in the community to prepare for this, learning all the while from other states’ the do’s and don’t’s of outbreak management so forgive me if I’m just a little incredulous at that reasoning. I’m not against lockdowns of varying degrees, if there is a logic to it and a little bit of explanation of the ‘medical advice’ where it differs significantly from other CMOs. It’s not too much to ask for is it?

Clearly, the most recent example would be Victoria and WA’s respective responses this week.

[currawong]

Ten is a nice number.

If a couple of his contacts tested positive then there is a trend, which means more can be expected.
Also think about the travelers FROM WA who are in quarantine in other states based on ONE infection in Perth a week ago. Should they be allowed out of their 14 day quarantine given Perth comes out today at 6pm WST?

No, because we found the trend or threshold approach to be a disaster.

Remember this? From June 2020....

"However, while the numbers for Victoria are increasing, they're not necessarily cause for alarm."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-18/why-is-victoria-experiencing-an-increase-in-cases/12366884

From two cases to second wave in no time at all.

[dr dre]

I’m not against lockdowns of varying degrees, if there is a logic to it and a little bit of explanation of the ‘medical advice’ where it differs significantly from other CMOs. It’s not too much to ask for is it?


Morrison addressed that himself in this ABC live blog of his press conference (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-05/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid19-national-cabinet/13122610) today (about half way down):

Morrison says the difference between cities like Brisbane and Perth versus Melbourne and New South Wales dealing with cases is that "we are very confident about how Victorians and New South Wales residents would respond".

"Both Western Australia and Queensland haven't had much game time for their systems, with their contact tracing and things like that, as other states have had.

[Dannyboy39]

I’m sorry but as an outsider looking in, that’s one of the most bollocksworthy statements I’ve seen from a politician in this pandemic.

[Icarus2001]

Chronic Snoozer, this is a great summary of how I feel...
Perhaps if there was better supervision of existing protocol compliance the entire SW Australian seaboard would not have needed lockdown. The lockdown feels over-compensatory in light of latent basic errors in quarantine management.

[currawong]

I’m sorry but as an outsider looking in, that’s one of the most bollocksworthy statements I’ve seen from a politician in this pandemic.

You are in the UK, right?

[dr dre]

You are in the UK, right?

“I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands”.......

[Dannyboy39]

“I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands”.......
Hey... I didn't say it was the only one! I didn't vote for that clown...

[Foxxster]

Morrison addressed that himself in this ABC live blog of his press conference (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-05/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid19-national-cabinet/13122610) today (about half way down):

Morrison says the difference between cities like Brisbane and Perth versus Melbourne and New South Wales dealing with cases is that "we are very confident about how Victorians and New South Wales residents would respond".

"Both Western Australia and Queensland haven't had much game time for their systems, with their contact tracing and things like that, as other states have had.


You have to realise that there is also politics in Morrison’s statement. So do not read anything into that statement.

He knows full well there is a WA election coming up. And with the Liberals already way behind he is deliberately playing it nice with the WA premier so as not to put the state liberals in a more negative light as it appears WA voters are happy with the current handling of the pandemic. Rightly or wrongly.

I would expect the language to change a little after the election.

[dr dre]

You have to realise that there is also politics in Morrison’s statement. So do not read anything into that statement.

He knows full well there is a WA election coming up. And with the Liberals already way behind he is deliberately playing it nice with the WA premier so as not to put the state liberals in a more negative light as it appears WA voters are happy with the current handling of the pandemic. Rightly or wrongly.

I would expect the language to change a little after the election.

The State Libs have zero chance of winning that poll, it doesn’t matter what comes out of Morrison’s mouth. I’d say if anything he’s thinking of his own next Federal Election and not losing WA seats.

After the state election it’ll be April, the vaccine program will be well underway, a lot of critical groups should have been vaccinated, the risk profile will change and there’ll be a change in health advice and actions, so the language will change from all. No one can say for sure how much, I wouldn’t expect full unrestricted international travel of course by that stage but steps will be made.

[WingNut60]

The State Libs have zero chance of winning that poll, it doesn’t matter what comes out of Morrison’s mouth. I’d say if anything he’s thinking of his own next Federal Election and not losing WA seats.


Mr Morrison won't be in any hurry to go to the polls, I suspect.

[Icarus2001]

The pundits seem to disagree WingNut, he wants to bask in the sweet spot at the end of 2021 as restrictions start to lift and the future looks rosey.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/commentisfree/2021/jan/31/morrison-wants-to-bask-in-the-post-pandemic-glow-expect-an-election-this-year

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/politics/australian-politics/2021/01/09/scott-morrison-election-2021/

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-02/scott-morrison-political-dilemma-election-covid-19-vaccine/13109674

[Foxxster]

The State Libs have zero chance of winning that poll, it doesn’t matter what comes out of Morrison’s mouth. I’d say if anything he’s thinking of his own next Federal Election and not losing WA seats.

After the state election it’ll be April, the vaccine program will be well underway, a lot of critical groups should have been vaccinated, the risk profile will change and there’ll be a change in health advice and actions, so the language will change from all. No one can say for sure how much, I wouldn’t expect full unrestricted international travel of course by that stage but steps will be made.

Also very true. The WA liberals may have no hope of winning but they want to lose by a lesser margin. Any negative outbursts from Canberra could mean losing additional seats.

The possibility of a Federal election around September this year is as you say also a major consideration....as I have heard if things go bad enough in WA alone, it could be enough to swing things . And it appears at the state level at least, the libs are in serious trouble there.

[WingNut60]

The pundits seem to disagree WingNut, he wants to bask in the sweet spot at the end of 2021 as restrictions start to lift and the future looks rosey.

Yes well, we'll see how that goes for him.
We'll see how popular he is after he brings in this year's budget.

Jobs and growth is starting to look a bit fragile

[Ragnor]

You really can’t hold the federal government accountable for the budget deficit when they spent so much on the ppl. So Mo will be popular as he is now.

[WingNut60]

You really can’t hold the federal government accountable for the budget deficit when they spent so much on the ppl. So Mo will be popular as he is now.
I didn't say I did. But I also would not over-estimate his popularity.
We'll see.

[rcoight]

Mr Morrison won't be in any hurry to go to the polls, I suspect.

He’ll romp home, whether the election is later this year or next.

The ALP have no chance under Albo - or anyone else - while they continue to ignore their traditional base in favour of inner city greens.

[Icarus2001]

Yes well, we'll see how that goes for him.
We'll see how popular he is after he brings in this year's budget.

I can see the man in the street...”Save us Albo you are only hope”

Yep, the man in the street knows that the best people to fix the economy and get us moving are a group of ex union officials parachuted into safe seats. Too funny.

[601]

That is how we ended up with compulsory bicycle helmets in Australia when the rest of the world mostly manages without such rules.

At least in Oz, we have a vessel in which we can deliver the mangled brains to their mother.
This especially applies to the morons who ride with their helmet other than on their head, correctly fastened.

I have witnessed three bicycle accidents caused by uneven or protruding road surfaces which, judging by the damage to the helmets, would have resulted in serious brain injury.

.

[SOPS]

The Labor Party is too focused on the latte sipper Greens in the city. Once upon a time.. they were the party for let’s say.. the coal miners. All they want to do now is shut down coal mining.: well perhaps they do.. no they don’t .. umm we can’t really say.

Until Albo and his inner city mates go back to their base .. they have no hope in hell of winning an election.

Shorten got caught out by this at the last election.. telling the late sippers he was against coal .. and trying to explain to the miners, why he wasn’t.

For many reasons, this is going to be a fun year.

[Climb150]

At least in Oz, we have a vessel in which we can deliver the mangled brains to their mother.
This especially applies to the morons who ride with their helmet other than on their head, correctly fastened.

I have witnessed three bicycle accidents caused by uneven or protruding road surfaces which, judging by the damage to the helmets, would have resulted in serious brain injury.

.
A 2006 BMJ study showed that in states which had helmet laws, the amount of cycling to work had reduced by about one third.[53] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet_laws#cite_note-Robinson-53) Other evidence strongly suggests that promotion or compulsion of helmet use deters cycling.

“Australia is one of only two countries in the world with fully enforced mandatory helmet law. The number of people who ride a bike isn't increasing and there has been no decrease in the number of bike rider fatalities.Oct 31, 2018

Good to see Australia is keeping us all safe from super dangerous bicycles

[Foxxster]

He’ll romp home, whether the election is later this year or next.

The ALP have no chance under Albo - or anyone else - while they continue to ignore their traditional base in favour of inner city greens.

Albo is done. Plibersek has already announced she is after his job for anyone listening. She has raised her profile this year, taking a regular spot on a talkback radio station and if anyone thinks that little confrontation with Craig Kelly was anything but her saying she was leader in waiting then wake up. Apparently Tony Burke has also cleared up a few issues from his past, very quietly so expect something from him, perhaps deputy to Plibersek or to run as leader.

And before anyone says , no she will wait until after the election. Or wait, what about those new rules they brought in regarding electing a new leader. Plibersek is a leftie just like Albo and if or more likely when Albo loses, the federal ALP are sure not going to elect another leftie to lead them. So Plibersek has to make her move before the election. She also is too old to wait for the time after the next leader after Albo. And with an election tipped for September, she is going to have to act quickly. Hence the recent confrontation with Kelly. Expect to see and hear a lot more of her and probably Burke.

[Ragnor]

Albo will loose the election, TP will wait till after that then take the reins. TP will build her profile even more over the next 3-4 yrs and loose that election. The Labor party is not the Labor party anymore they're more aligned with the greens than ever before and until they can distance themself they will loose the blue collar workers gradually.

The Nationals are requesting the Liberals that rural Australia Agriculture, coal, manufacturing be protected in any Australian policy transition to net zero carbon emissions by 2050 and they will cross the floor to protect regional Australia and their party’s identity. Sco Mo does this he will smash the next election and the next.

[wheels_down]

I think it’s safe to say there won’t be any government changes throughout this entire decade. Federal and State. Scotty will be the longest serving PM. Dan will be the longest serving Premier.

Largely due to failures of the opposition in every market.

[layman]

Climb150

97% of fatal bicycle accident victims were not wearing a helmet

74% of severe injuries (mainly head trauma) were not wearing a helmet

Mandatory or not, wearing a helmet seems to be the safer option

[dr dre]

The Nationals are requesting the Liberals that rural Australia Agriculture, coal, manufacturing be protected in any Australian policy transition to net zero carbon emissions by 2050 and they will cross the floor to protect regional Australia and their party’s identity.

If you haven’t noticed the rhetoric from the government has changed in the last 2 months, may have coincided with a change of government in Washington.......

Exact words from the PM - “the political debate about reaching a carbon-neutral future is over”....

Anyway enough thread drift, bad enough we’re arguing about politics and pandemics here, arguing about politics and CC is JB territory.....

[Chronic Snoozer]

A 2006 BMJ study showed that in states which had helmet laws, the amount of cycling to work had reduced by about one third.[53] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet_laws#cite_note-Robinson-53) Other evidence strongly suggests that promotion or compulsion of helmet use deters cycling.

“Australia is one of only two countries in the world with fully enforced mandatory helmet law. The number of people who ride a bike isn't increasing and there has been no decrease in the number of bike rider fatalities.Oct 31, 2018

Good to see Australia is keeping us all safe from super dangerous bicycles

It’s not the bicycles, it’s gravity and Mother Earth that are dangerous. Dive back into that study and find out how many serious head injuries and concussions were prevented. Is it so different to mandating seat belts? Popularity of cycling is affected by a number of factors not least of which is proper infrastructure and urban sprawl.

[WingNut60]

He’ll romp home, whether the election is later this year or next.

The ALP have no chance under Albo - or anyone else - while they continue to ignore their traditional base in favour of inner city greens.
You must be reading my post up-side down.
I said nothing about Lib vs Lab.
I agree, Albanese has no show.
But I'm not at all sure that it's going to be ScoMo up front when the next election comes around.
But hey, wouldn't this all be better in another thread.

[krismiler]

Australian bicycle helmet laws vary from state to state, most will allow Sikhs an exemption, except for New South Wales where they feel that the protection offered by a turban isn't quite up to that of a proper helmet.

Motorcycle use requires a helmet in all states with no exceptions on religious or medical grounds, except for Tasmania where the transport department may approve a medical exemption.

[Climb150]

Hmmmm 195 countries and 2 have mandatory helmet laws for adults. I guess the rest of the world is just too dumb to see how forward thinking we have been over the last 30 years.

[dr dre]

But hey, wouldn't this all be better in another thread.

Absolutely, soon someone will suggest bike helmets can prevent virus infection.

[Icarus2001]

Only if the bicycle helmets were lined with aluminium foil.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/350x347/weirdalfoil_2322_d7d71910b771f2f4d6c342ec7895c3338f96f339.jp g

[DirectAnywhere]

This thread just went full retard.

[McLimit]

just went full retard

You reckon 'just' ?

[rattman]

This thread just went full retard.
its been full RWNJ / Retard for the last 10-20 pages

[601]

Absolutely, soon someone will suggest bike helmets can prevent virus infection.

I did not want to raise this but, none of the group I ride with, who all wear helmets, have caught the virus.:ok:

[DirectAnywhere]

You reckon 'just' ?
Fair call!!

[goodonyamate]

I did not want to raise this but, none of the group I ride with, who all wear helmets, have caught the virus.:ok:

same with the ones in mine who wear Lycra. Could be on to something here.

[galdian]

Maybe lycra suits with bicycle helmets/caps should be the new QF uniform, the virus wouldn't stand a chance! :ok:

Mind you the aesthetics on some of the flight crew would be....interesting the word?? ;)

[goodonyamate]

Maybe lycra suits with bicycle helmets/caps should be the new QF uniform, the virus wouldn't stand a chance! :ok:

Mind you the aesthetics on some of the flight crew would be....interesting the word?? ;)


there are already a few who wear sizes a few too small. The buttons are just begging to be let free.

the uniform you suggest would however be an improvement on the current one

[Climb150]

The thread may have gone full r*tard, but it's now much more interesting to read!

[Foxxster]

The thread may have gone full r*tard, but it's now much more interesting to read!


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/225x225/552f8027_2d40_4311_a648_e1f84c4c80de_09c1aeb48e993d2d1f1ea9b 0e9dfa623d55a68e1.jpeg

[Ladloy]

its been full RWNJ / Retard for the last 10-20 pages
It's a beautiful echo chamber with a river of **** rigbt down the middle of it.

[SOPS]

So we now have leaks from HQ in NSW and Vic. Let’s see where this goes.

HQ and returning travellers are the big weak point.

[McLimit]

I think we all know where it's going:

- Andrews would normally shut the state down, but now that he has an international tennis event, miraculously, he now has full confidence in the contact tracing. We will hear very little of the expert medical advice. Because, well they will have nothing to do with the 'decision' to not lock down.

- NSW will remain open, not lock any States out and deal with the case pragmatically.

- WA will lock both NSW & VIC out of WA.

- QLD will lock NSW out but not VIC, petty vendetta against NSW but will want to prove to Morrison that she's not being reactionary (remaining open to VIC) in an effort to secure financial support.

- SA will lock both NSW & VIC out. But no one really gives a ****.

Australians will rejoice in the nationally consistent approach to covid cases.

Victorians - will go about the business, looking suspiciously at anyone within 1.5m. Out of sight and at home they'll be ****ting themselves, shaking uncontrollably at the thought of another lockdown. Sunfish will dig out his Harvard MBA notes, his Mayo Clinic medical notes and his vaccination card from the Spanish (American) Flu, Andrews has him on speed dial so we will have to wait for a pprune response from him. As an aside, Sunfish is not Andrews expert medical advisor, Sunfish would have locked down indefinitely sometime last April.

NSWelshmen - couldn't really be ******, they know the government can be trusted (well, that word may be a little strong) to not behave like a pack of morons, locking down at 2 mins notice, well not locking down at all.

QLD'rs - Will ring 4BC en-mass (Jonesy will be frothing at the mouth wondering how they got through the switchboard) and thank Annie for keeping them safe whilst most of their family plot on excel spreadsheets when it will all end for them. Being heavily reliant on tourism, locking tourists out repeatedly and at short notice tends to have an effect on your bottom line.

South Australians - well..............:hmm:

West Australians - They'll hear something on triple m about some virus over east whilst dropping off their Malloo at the Holden dealer for a sub woofer upgrade. They can spot an easterner accent at 200m, that's what keeps them safe, they know their fellow WA comrades are safe so are quite happy to have them within 400mm of their person

[Green.Dot]

Brilliant McLimit, very funny and not far off the truth :D

[Sunfish]

Yes McLimit, very funny and I'm now in vaccination group 1b. I guess you have to wait until 2022 with the rest of the Fifteen year olds.

You can scream and yell all you like about the unfairness of it all but RPT air travel is dead and its going to remain that way.

[Green.Dot]

Once you get your vaccine Sunfish why don’t you enjoy your retirement instead of p*ssing it away on PPRUNE. We 15 years olds don’t have anything better to do until we get access to the vaccine.

[ruprecht]

Yes McLimit, very funny

You should have stopped there.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

RPT air travel is dead and its going to remain that way.

I think we can file that one along with your recent claim that ‘six months ago Victoria was cactus, now it’s NSW and Qld’s turn’.

it must be exhausting to live in a constant state of near-hysterical paranoia.

[Telfer86]

The biggest threat the Australian Pilot cohort have is the Victorian Socialist Left Govt getting back into the hotel quarantine game

Two cases last four days , from two different hotels

One announced very late last night

Just put the airline recovery back by another three months & possibly much longer

[SHVC]

International sports people must be more valued than Australian residents lively hoods. Australian open has been nothing but drama, and do Australians really want it here at the moment!