All borders to reopen.

[BNEA320]

https://www.travelweekly.com.au/article/wondering-when-international-travel-will-restart-this-new-chart-could-hold-the-answer/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_term=&utm_content=Wondering%20when%20international%20travel%20will %20restart%3F%20This%20new%20chart%20could%20hold%20the%20an swer&utm_campaign=Travel%20Weekly%3A%20Thursday%2028%20May%202020 (https://www.travelweekly.com.au/article/wondering-when-international-travel-will-restart-this-new-chart-could-hold-the-answer/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_term=&utm_content=Wondering%20when%20international%20travel%20will %20restart%3F%20This%20new%20chart%20could%20hold%20the%20an swer&utm_campaign=Travel%20Weekly%3A%20Thursday%2028%20May%202020 )



& this paragraph in particular …



According to the proposed timetable, Aussies would be able to travel to New Zealand and the Pacific from 1 July, with travel to other countries deemed safe under a bilateral health agreement to restart from 10 September.

However, it appears all international travel wouldn’t resume until after 15 December.

The Tourism Restart Taskforce is planning for all domestic travel, including domestic expedition cruises, to restart from 5 June.


& my guess, jobkeeper & jobseeker to go early, as country can't afford it. As it is, GST will have to increase. To what ? 15%, 20% or more ?

[Colonel_Klink]

It’s calling for all domestic travel to start from June 5.

So by next Friday you think the WA, NT, QLD, SA and TAS state governments are all going to open their borders. You are absolutely kidding yourself. It’s more likely the state borders open from July 1 and borders open to NZ by some time in September.

And what do you mean the country can’t afford JK and JS? Australia still has one of the lowest government debts amongst OECD nations. The RBA governor has basically said we can afford to borrow more and spend it on things that will grow the economy. This is especially the case when the cost of borrowing is so cheap at the
moment.

You need to understand that government debt is not the same as household debt.

And are you also suggesting the government is going to double a consumption tax at the point where consumption is at its lowest because the country is in recession? That would be a massive economic blunder - and there is no way the government will go anywhere near something like that.

[BNEA320]

It’s calling for all domestic travel to start from June 5.

So by next Friday you think the WA, NT, QLD, SA and TAS state governments are all going to open their borders. You are absolutely kidding yourself. It’s more likely the state borders open from July 1 and borders open to NZ by some time in September.

And what do you mean the country can’t afford JK and JS? Australia still has one of the lowest government debts amongst OECD nations. The RBA governor has basically said we can afford to borrow more and spend it on things that will grow the economy. This is especially the case when the cost of borrowing is so cheap at the
moment.

You need to understand that government debt is not the same as household debt.

And are you also suggesting the government is going to double a consumption tax at the point where consumption is at its lowest because the country is in recession? That would be a massive economic blunder - and there is no way the government will go anywhere near something like that.
no fed govt wants to announce that GST is being increased, but at some point, one will have to. There's also a problem, that those getting $750 a week for doing nothing in many cases, don't want to go back to work & when dole is reduced to what it was, many dole bludgers will scream, they can't live on that, even though many have cash jobs on the side.

[Islandlad]

no fed govt wants to announce that GST is being increased, but at some point, one will have to.
Before the thread grows could you make the Title more specific to Australia, NZ and any Pacific border? There will be many different area specific borders people are waiting to open (which may close again).

Thanks and good luck.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

The body proposing the June 5 timeline is Federal.

Good luck convincing the State governments to follow it.

[The The]

Western Australia and New Zealand are to be the first to open up the Trans Tasman bubble. Large number of expat NZ'ers in WA and big immediate tourism potential for both sides, winter skiing in NZ and warm sunshine in Northern WA.

You heard it here first!

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Western Australia and New Zealand are to be the first to open up the Trans Tasman bubble. Large number of expat NZ'ers in WA and big immediate tourism potential for both sides, winter skiing in NZ and warm sunshine in Northern WA.

You heard it here first!

Media reports this week to the contrary. Vic, ACT and NSW most likely to open first to NZ. Reports of a possible proving flight on July 1 CBR to WLG.

No disrespect to WA, but the vast majority of tourism dollars and Kiwi Expats come fro the east coast. Perth is a pretty small city and I can’t see many people flying 7 hrs to AKL then 2 hrs down to ZQN to hit the slopes. Or vice versa kiwis up to Broome.

[cloudsurfng]

Whilst the state dictators can control their own borders, international approval is a federal matter. No way Scomo will reward the petulant states that refuse to allow Australians in, with holidays to one of the greatest places on earth....and nor should he. It will be ACT, NSW and VIC subject to NZ approval of course.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

BNEA320,

As much as we all want travel to resume ASAP, cherry picking news reports and creating misleading threads on PPRUNE isn’t going to make it happen any faster, no matter how many exclamation points you use!!!!!!!!!!

[normanton]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the NZ PM has stated many times that there will be no travel to AUS until all of our internal borders are removed.

It ain't happening any time soon.

[Chris2303]

More and more NZers do not want the border open until Australia is reporting zero new cases. If NZ can do it even Aussies can do it.

Don't listen to Winston - what he says is of no import.

[Ragnor]

Zero new cases? Well better seddle in and wait for a vaccine because zero target will not happen.

[rmm]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the NZ PM has stated many times that there will be no travel to AUS until all of our internal borders are removed.

It ain't happening any time soon.

She may have changed her tune,
https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/travel-group-says-australia-new-zealand-bubble-could-open-in-september-20200527-p54x16.html

"New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said on Wednesday she spoke to her Australian counterpart Scott Morrison on Tuesday and both were keen to move forward with the idea “as quickly as we can”.
"It won't be too long before we are ready," she said at a press conference."

https://www.smh.com.au/national/legal-challenges-to-border-closures-have-legs-experts-say-20200525-p54w8a.html

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said on Monday the creation of a bubble – or safe travel zone – between Australia and New Zealand was not conditional on state border relaxation.
"It's contingent on Australia signalling that they are ready," she said. "They may choose to open up while they have some internal border restrictions. They may choose to wait. I see that as a matter for Australia."

[ivan ellerbai]

could you make the Title more specific to Australia, NZ and any Pacific border?

Why? Isn't where it's posted specific title enough?

PPRuNe Worldwide (https://www.pprune.org/pprune-worldwide-8/) > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific-90/)
Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

[Buttscratcher]

.... with holidays to one of the greatest places on earth..

You're taking the piss, right?

[Chris2303]

Zero new cases? Well better seddle in and wait for a vaccine because zero target will not happen.

NZ has had zero new cases for the last 6 days.

[chookcooker]

They’re gonna be in a pretty small bubble if that’s the pass mark then. Good luck NZ economy

[plainmaker]

A small note to BNEA320
GST revenue goes back to the States, not the Commonwealth (although a Commonwealth Agency collects it). So as per your 'proposed' GST increase will have ZERO effect on Commonwealth Debt. And you can bet, if the GST rate was increased, the States would be falling over one another to get their 'entitlement'.
Plainmaker.

[ozbiggles]

None so blind as those that will not see.

[cloudsurfng]

You're taking the piss, right?

not at all. The South Island is incredible, I’d live there in a heartbeat.

PS life for me is about skiing and hiking.....

[AmarokGTI]

“ALL BORDERS TO REOPEN”

Well what a stupid title. Of course they will. At some point. Do you work for the Daily Mail?

[Section28- BE]

Ex- 'plainmaker'

A small note to BNEA320
GST revenue goes back to the States, not the Commonwealth (although a Commonwealth Agency collects it). So as per your 'proposed' GST increase will have ZERO effect on Commonwealth Debt. And you can bet, if the GST rate was increased, the States would be falling over one another to get their 'entitlement'.
Plainmaker.

Hearin you Mr 'plain-fabricator': Is, NOT all this 'support'/welfare/child-care (in point of Fact ref, this), etc. funded/fully franked at 100 cents in 'the' dollar, and beyond- at this time....???

How, would 'one' pull 'this'- out of a GST increase/blunt TOOL......???? and have any Economy remaining to move forward, with..???

Repeat the same actions,........ and then, expect a.......????

Rgds all
S28- BE

[CSTGuy]

Well if one was to read back through many of BNEA320’s posts and threads, he/she ain’t the sharpest pilot/economist/commentator/rumour mongerer going around.....

[machtuk]

Australia is the most disfunctional fractured country on the planet! We have huge potential but not in this lifetime!

[normanton]

Australia is the most disfunctional fractured country on the planet! We have huge potential but not in this lifetime!
haha I suggest you go read CNN!

[wishiwasupthere]

Australia is the most disfunctional fractured country on the planet! We have huge potential but not in this lifetime!

Yeah, nah.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/681x450/f4768061_f76b_4059_afcd_ebead197d8f5_8288a53f36a966f8cac14d5 d36f544c9db86b5f7.jpeg

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Australia is the most disfunctional fractured country on the planet! We have huge potential but not in this lifetime!

apart from maybe NZ, I challenge you to name a country where you’d rather be right now

[Global Aviator]

Maybe on an island with Mr Wilson!!!

[galdian]

Maybe on an island with Mr Wilson!!!

Yeah, nah - on an island with Robin (Anne Heche), at least might get a bit of "social" intercourse. ;)

[exfocx]

apart from maybe NZ, I challenge you to name a country where you’d rather be right now


Oh, let me see. Taiwan, S. Korea, Japan!

[Slezy9]

Australia is the most disfunctional fractured country on the planet! We have huge potential but not in this lifetime!

You following events in the USA?

[Double_Clutch]

Another well informed post by BNEA320!?!?!?
Genius - of course the borders will open (at some point). How about we come back an revisit this thread when they all actually reopen!

maybe he is trying to bolster his business and bookings?

[thorn bird]

My old dad used to say he wanted to retire with a pub on a tropical Island.

With no customers!

[TT738]

NSW, Victoria to miss out in New Zealand’s travel bubble plan

https://www.news.com.au/travel/destinations/new-zealand/nsw-victoria-to-miss-out-in-new-zealands-travel-bubble-plan/news-story/5fe5aa77e322a184fe6dbf851d45d32d

It seems NZ might be open to Qlders before southerners.

Guess it's up to scomo. Don't think anna chukka in qld has any say on international borders, or am I wrong ?

[BNEA320]

NSW, Victoria to miss out in New Zealand’s travel bubble plan



It seems NZ might be open to Qlders before southerners.

Guess it's up to scomo. Don't think anna chukka in qld has any say on international borders, or am I wrong ?
good for NZ & Qld economies, but bad for Australian ski resorts. Vaguely remember that BNE & OOL had combined around 12 nonstop flights a week to Queenstown in mid winter 2019.

[Duck Pilot]

Can’t see it being attractive for anyone going into Queensland until they lift the isolation restrictions, unless they absolutely need to go there.

14 days locked up in Brisbane in isolation is painful!!!

[KiwiAvi8er]

Can’t see it being attractive for anyone going into Queensland until they lift the isolation restrictions, unless they absolutely need to go there.

14 days locked up in Brisbane in isolation is painful!!!

The whole basis of the trans Tasman bubble is to waive the isolation requirements.

[TT738]

Can’t see it being attractive for anyone going into Queensland until they lift the isolation restrictions, unless they absolutely need to go there.

14 days locked up in Brisbane in isolation is painful!!!
word on the street is, after weekend protest debacle with virtually no social distancing among 20,000 people, that social distancing will be gone & Qld border will be open in less than 2 weeks, unless massive jump in cases of corona.

[NZScion]

The whole basis of the trans Tasman bubble is to waive the isolation requirements.
Correct. There is already a skeleton schedule of flights from MEL, SYD and BNE to AKL operated by NZ.

[DanV2]

NSW, Victoria to miss out in New Zealand’s travel bubble plan

https://www.news.com.au/travel/destinations/new-zealand/nsw-victoria-to-miss-out-in-new-zealands-travel-bubble-plan/news-story/5fe5aa77e322a184fe6dbf851d45d32d

It seems NZ might be open to Qlders before southerners.

Guess it's up to scomo. Don't think anna chukka in qld has any say on international borders, or am I wrong ?

Thanks for the update, BNEA320!

[TT738]

Correct. There is already a skeleton schedule of flights from MEL, SYD and BNE to AKL operated by NZ.
surely the schedule can be cranked up very quickly ? Many people have flights booked already & even if they had to go via AKL or CHC or WLG to get to ZQN, it's not the end of the world.

Noted that VA had around 8 flights a week BNE/ZQN nonstop last winter.

[Chris2303]

Despite what you Aussies may think there will be NO trans Tasman or Pacific flying involving New Zealand until the New Zealand Government says so.

[TT738]

Despite what you Aussies may think there will be NO trans Tasman or Pacific flying involving New Zealand until the New Zealand Government says so.so we have to wait til 6pm news tonight or "tomorrow" ? NZ deputy PM seems to think it was "yesterday"

Think it's already been decided & they are just working out how to announce it, so they don't look even more stupid (pollies that is)

[lc_461]

There is no valid political reason for the QLD border to be opened to NZ before it could be to domestic travel. Which the Premier has said multiple times in the last week, even if no cases, rainbows and butterflies, won't be before July 1.

[Chris2303]

so we have to wait til 6pm news tonight or "tomorrow" ? NZ deputy PM seems to think it was "yesterday"

Think it's already been decided & they are just working out how to announce it, so they don't look even more stupid (pollies that is)

The deputy PM is playing politics because there is a reasonable chance he will be chucked out on 19 Sep.

The whole cabinet decides, taking into account the "expert advice" and also the increasing mood of the people not to reopen.

Oops - sorry mods - I'm feeding the troll

[DanV2]

word on the street is, after weekend protest debacle with virtually no social distancing among 20,000 people, that social distancing will be gone & Qld border will be open in less than 2 weeks, unless massive jump in cases of corona.

Much like how you claimed that REX got "Fast Tracked" approval for Jets to be added to their AOC and that they would be starting next year, isn't that right BNEA320?

[CamelSquadron]

According to press reports, borders are set to open between WA, SA and NT and possibly QLD in the first stage of openings with the rest to follow afterwards - to be announced within days.

[ozbiggles]

July 1 is my bet for Domestic borders to fall, followed shortly by the bubble. The protests funnily enough have swung the politics. Now the same premiers who looked so tough have been proven to be weak. The protests could also be what ‘stuffs’ it as well.
No doubt Qantas want to have it happen ASAP so they can take advantage of the VA situation. All is fair in love and war.
Rex are probably happy with the status quo

[f1yhigh]

One of the protesters confirmed positive in Melbourne. The protests have undone all the hard work we've put in. Expect second wave in Australia and for interstate borders to remain closed :ugh:

[gordonfvckingramsay]

One of the protesters confirmed positive in Melbourne. The protests have undone all the hard work we've put in. Expect second wave in Australia and for interstate borders to remain closed :ugh:

Unbelievable! One wonders how many lives and livelihoods of all races could be in the balance as a result.

[Potsie Weber]

One of the protesters confirmed positive in Melbourne. The protests have undone all the hard work we've put in. Expect second wave in Australia and for interstate borders to remain closed :ugh:


Hopefully it could go the other way if there is no or very little spread from this case. Could be the catalyst for opening the borders!

[rmm]

The organizers are now talking about planning mass rallies for refugees.

[Angle of Attack]

Even if there were several hundred cases from the protests I still think it should not affect border openings, this thing is here for the long term, we just need to deal with it, there has never been a successful Corona type virus vaccine produced....ever! It mutates too fast just like the normal flu.

[Anti Skid On]

Whilst there is ANY community transmission NZ will not be open for business. The small blip in Melbourne will set their chances back Queensland has got a far better chance (which is **** for me as my family are in Melbourne)

[Anti Skid On]

NSW, Victoria to miss out in New Zealand’s travel bubble plan

https://www.news.com.au/travel/destinations/new-zealand/nsw-victoria-to-miss-out-in-new-zealands-travel-bubble-plan/news-story/5fe5aa77e322a184fe6dbf851d45d32d

It seems NZ might be open to Qlders before southerners.

Guess it's up to scomo. Don't think anna chukka in qld has any say on international borders, or am I wrong ?
Nothing to do with SCOMO, NZ will decide who is allowed in by themselves

[SandyPalms]

Nothing to do with SCOMO, NZ will decide who is allowed in by themselves
And Scomo will decide if Kiwis are allowed in here. Our border is also closed. I don't think the bubble would be only for the benefit of NZ. So it has everything to do with Scomo.

[mostlytossas]

SA has today announced its borders will be open for unrestricted travel on July 20. Don't know about other states. Also stated there might be a relaxation before that with other states with no or little new cases such as WA ,Tas and NT. Problem with Tassie is most people need to travel through Vic or more importantly Melbourne to get here.

[Duck Pilot]

Anything mentioned about other Pacific Nations being part of the so called bubble?

[Duck Pilot]

Many thanks angryrat, that’s good news.

[Tinstaafl]

As much as I want to come home to visit my parents & siblings etc, you do *not* want to open borders to anyone coming from the US. COVID-19 'management' has been utterly abysmal here. It is in no way under control, let alone improving here.

[theSOD]

Looks like CHC may be gearing up for more international travel.

I am currently serving day number 5/14 of quarantine in Auckland. Customs have just notified me that they are busy arranging a charter flight for those who's home is in the South Island and that a new quarantine facility in Chirstchurch has been opened. Auckland is probably reaching capacity quickly and with the add of the Tokyo service to AKL and the SQ service to CHC it was only a matter of time.

This would be a great start to getting Aussie travellers in to the South Island much quicker if more flights are being established and the bubble is approved

[TT738]

just saw the longest TV ad ever for Japanese skiing. Someone knows something. You don't spend big bucks on TV ads unless you've got something to sell.

[morno]

just saw the longest TV ad ever for Japanese skiing. Someone knows something. You don't spend big bucks on TV ads unless you've got something to sell.

Probably just a marketing company who thought advertising was a good idea. Doesn’t mean anything.

[TT738]

Probably just a marketing company who thought advertising was a good idea. Doesn’t mean anything.or, more probably, someone at Japanese &/or Australian govt level has told them international border between Australia & Japan will be open in Sept without any restrictions. You don't spend millions on TV ads on a whim.

BTW, saw the ad which must have run for 90 seconds, 3 times in the one movie last night.

Look on the bright side, MORE WORK FOR PILOTS !!!!

Also, Qld govt can't decide to open border with NSW on July 10, maybe sooner. The overpaid public servants, as usual, can't make any decision.

[morno]

Haha, you're dreaming buddy. Get back to your travel agency

[Asturias56]

Tahiti full reopening to tourism from 15th July - subject to testing, masks etc etc

[Bad Adventures]

Air New Zealand back into Japan.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2020/06/15/air-new-zealand-to-resume-auckland-narita-route/

[Australopithecus]

New Zealand recorded two new cases today out of the blue. Both were visitors from the UK allowed in on compassionate grounds. Unfortunately they were allowed to travel by automobile, so another trace and isolate exercise will be necessary. Which will, I am sure, be a bucket of cold water on hasty plans to open any bubbles.

[segfault]

New Zealand recorded two new cases today out of the blue. Both were visitors from the UK allowed in on compassionate grounds. Unfortunately they were allowed to travel by automobile, so another trace and isolate exercise will be necessary. Which will, I am sure, be a bucket of cold water on hasty plans to open any bubbles.
It happened to South Australia as well and I question the judgement of people who decide these cases. A large number of foreign arrivals in Victoria are turning out to be covid positive. We should take that as a warning.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Well, WA is still 'closed' at the borders.....Don't know for how much longer though.

WA Premier not sayin' much in the way of a 'timeline'.......

Cheers

[Ragnor]

As long as QLD, Tasmania and SA open up who cares what WA does.

[kingRB]

SA's borders now reopen to WA/NT/TAS

[Asturias56]

Until there is a vaccine you'll continue to get cases unless you shut down ALL (no exceptions) international travel until there is a vaccine - a few cases, especially if they aren't life threatening, may be the price you pay to save the economy.

[PilotLZ]

You don't even need to shut down all international travel. Community transmission always remains a possibility because nobody can guarantee that zero recorded cases equal zero real cases. No country can test all its population even once, let alone on a regular basis, to eliminate any possibility of some dormant asymptomatic case somewhere. So, the inherent risks of people mixing up remain as the price to be paid for a functional society (hence, functional economy).

[Australopithecus]

Until there is a vaccine you'll continue to get cases unless you shut down ALL (no exceptions) international travel until there is a vaccine - a few cases, especially if they aren't life threatening, may be the price you pay to save the economy.

But how do you predict which cases are going to be fatal, which visitor is a super spreader, what clusters will result?
There are some very bad long term outcomes for some survivors of Covid-19 that don’t seem to be part of the discussion either.

It appears that elements of the public have decided that economic bounty trumps public health. So far even the worst of the pandemic has occurred with social awareness and social controls to one degree or another. If we are going to ignore those then the second wave will be much worse than the first.

[Ragnor]

Well with Victoria now recording increasing numbers 21 today I doubt anyone will be letting them into their state. Hope a certain protest group are proud of them selfs.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Well with Victoria now recording increasing numbers 21 today I doubt anyone will be letting them into their state. Hope a certain protest group are proud of them selfs.

15 of those are returned travellers in hotel quarantine, so the headlines are a little misleading.

[ozbiggles]

What the Victorian figures do show is a relatively high rate of people returning from overseas do have this virus which means it will be even less likely international travel will kick off anytime soon outside the bubble.

[Pundit]

Ragnor the protestors have nothing to do with the current increasing numbers. Their impact is still 7 days away

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

What the Victorian figures do show is a relatively high rate of people returning from overseas do have this virus which means it will be even less likely international travel will kick off anytime soon outside the bubble.

I heard a figure of 4% of returned travellers are testing positive to COVID

[ozbiggles]

And looking at the heat the darling of the media Jacinda is taking today in NZ for 2 compassionate UK travers with Covid getting loose in the country makes it a good case study in bad politics in letting people back in. Sad but true.

[Ragnor]

Ragnor the protestors have nothing to do with the current increasing numbers. Their impact is still 7 days away


Yes they do. 9 of them are confirmed as being at the protest, the the new cases who are now testing positive can as per medical guidelines infect 2.5 people. A second wave is imminent now.

[ozbiggles]

Where is the figure of 9 coming from? I have heard of two so far. I don’t support protesting in the middle of a pandemic and I suspect it will lead to a worldwide increase but I haven’t heard the number of 9 from Melbourne? Regardless it will further slow down getting flying again.

[currawong]

Well, not this border...

"Australians hoping for an overseas holiday have had their hopes dashed, with the Tourism Minister saying the nation's border is likely to stay closed until next year."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-17/borders-likely-closed-until-next-year-coronavirus-restrictions/12365978

[kev2002]

Tasman might be an exception

https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/121866162/australia-says-border-likely-closed-to-2021--but-still-hope-for-kiwis

[Icarus2001]

"Australians hoping for an overseas holiday have had their hopes dashed, with the Tourism Minister saying the nation's border is likely to stay closed until next year."

More catastrophising from the unhelpful media. If you read his actual words it is far from settled. Asked whether that meant the border would not open until next year, he said, "I think that is more likely the case".

The reality is he just does not know.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

If the Victorian numbers keep going the way they are, we might not even get state borders open. The various premiers have given themselves enough wiggle room to keep them closed as the proposed dates are only tentative.

[michigan j]

Yes they do. 9 of them are confirmed as being at the protest, the the new cases who are now testing positive can as per medical guidelines infect 2.5 people. A second wave is imminent now.

I do hope they didnt go to the Westfields...

[ozbiggles]

Seems money has now trumped the state premiers passion for health and their minders have instructed them the voters majority is now in favour of opening borders. SA, NT next QLD all fighting for tourists and uni students. All a very political game. WA will try and be tough but collapse
I’m particularly enjoying the bit when they say we will open on 17 July because then we will be able to have x weeks of seeing transmission rates. So if they go up on 16 July like they are going to keep their borders shut? You can predict what they will do pretty easy, even the when, which is about 24 hours after the first state moves.

[Chad Gates]

If you need any more proof this state border closure is about politics and nothing more, the WA transport minister Rita Saffioti has just blamed the slow uptake of people using Perth public transport on "mixed messages from over East". Yes, that's right, people not getting on buses in Perth is Sydney and Melbourne's fault. WTF!

[The Banjo]

8.1 percent unemployment in WA might rattle the cage a little...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-18/wa-unemployment-rate-soars-past-8-per-cent-worst-in-nation/12368608

[ExtraShot]

8.1 percent unemployment in WA might rattle the cage a little...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-18/wa-unemployment-rate-soars-past-8-per-cent-worst-in-nation/12368608


Dont forget the 3.5 million people on Jobkeeper are recorded as employed.

Come end of September when the payments stop, these unemployment rates will most likely get seriously ugly.

[f1yhigh]

Are job keeper payments being extended for certain industries?

[Ragnor]

No! Deloitte has approach the Gov already to extend Jobkeeper for VA employees. September is when it will end.

[unexplained blip]

Where is the figure of 9 coming from? I have heard of two so far. I don’t support protesting in the middle of a pandemic and I suspect it will lead to a worldwide increase but I haven’t heard the number of 9 from Melbourne? Regardless it will further slow down getting flying again.

Three is the number I have read (for Victoria) but also it is being said that they didn't catch it at the protest. If that second part is true then it is trouble with a capital T. It means that out of 20000 people who attended, three at random were COVID positive. Extrapolating that, you have 750 Vic cases existing in the wild over the past fortnight. Bang. So I do hope the three +ve cases not being caught at the rally is bollocks. Having one in 20000 turning up with COVID can be put down to chance and a weighted coin, and not down to an indicator of a skyrocketing infection level since restrictions were first relaxed.

[currawong]

This graphic from another thread, posted by exfocx is worth a look

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/2562261/

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Three is the number I have read (for Victoria) but also it is being said that they didn't catch it at the protest. If that second part is true then it is trouble with a capital T. It means that out of 20000 people who attended, three at random were COVID positive. Extrapolating that, you have 750 Vic cases existing in the wild over the past fortnight. Bang. So I do hope the three +ve cases not being caught at the rally is bollocks. Having one in 20000 turning up with COVID can be put down to chance and a weighted coin, and not down to an indicator of a skyrocketing infection level since restrictions were first relaxed.

with the amount of testing going on I doubt (and hope) this is the case. For some perspective, 15,000 tests yesterday and they found 4 community transmission cases (the rest attributed to contacts with known cases/hotel quarantine), and that is considered a bad day.

[patty50]

One thing to keep in mind is the false positives that seem to be coming out which get retracted or the cases that go from unknown contact to known days later as happened in NSW with one of the weekend cases. It makes the news that day but the retractions don’t.

A false positive rate of <1 in 10000 is pretty good.
They are testing huge numbers so obviously there will be hiccoughs, most of the world would consider these utterly inconsequential. We saw the consequences here after the sad death in Queensland.

[Ragnor]

I agree, people need to listen and take direction. Stay home let’s not ruin the hard work everyone has done in all industry's. Now is not the time to be selfish and think you can do what you like.

[Buster Hyman]

Today’s figures from Victoria are concerning to say the least. 25 new cases and only 1 of those a returned traveller. I’m glad to see the Victorian government is being proactive but it’s hard to govern idiots. Reports of people being told to isolate and then going to work or family gatherings only to infect people. Some of those had just been tested, SMH.

Victorians are risking a second wave and while I’ve been against extended border closures, surely if Victorians can’t get their act together, there could be a case for border restrictions for Victorians. It would be a shame for the rest of the nation to be restricted or infected because one state doesn’t get their act together.
Some, not all of us. My eldest had to get a test & we all sat tight until the negative results came back but you're right, some selfish clowns walk amongst us. We all laughed at China Dans retort to SA when they threatened to keep us out, but who's having the last "laugh" now?

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Today’s figures from Victoria are concerning to say the least. 25 new cases and only 1 of those a returned traveller. I’m glad to see the Victorian government is being proactive but it’s hard to govern idiots. Reports of people being told to isolate and then going to work or family gatherings only to infect people. Some of those had just been tested, SMH.

Victorians are risking a second wave and while I’ve been against extended border closures, surely if Victorians can’t get their act together, there could be a case for border restrictions for Victorians. It would be a shame for the rest of the nation to be restricted or infected because one state doesn’t get their act together.

most victorians are doing the right thing and are annoyed at those who aren’t. I’d be happy if the borders remain closed with Victoria for an extra month or two (whatever is required) to allow the rest of the country to open up.

[Green.Dot]

most victorians are doing the right thing and are annoyed at those who aren’t. I’d be happy if the borders remain closed with Victoria for an extra month or two (whatever is required) to allow the rest of the country to open up.

And then what? In two months time the same selfish morons still won’t follow rules and we will be no better off. A free country means there is little punishment to deter these gits who don’t have as much to lose as you or I. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to work out what would happen to the same people in China if they protested against the rules...

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

And then what? In two months time the same selfish morons still won’t follow rules and we will be no better off. A free country means there is little punishment to deter these gits who don’t have as much to lose as you or I. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to work out what would happen to the same people in China if they protested against the rules...

i think the hope is that Victoria can achieve a similar result as NSW if restrictions are temporarily reimposed and new cases can be kept within the capabilities of the contact tracers

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-advice/victorian-premier-suggests-travel-ban-between-nsw-and-vic/news-story/778213d37f4359e5f911561666a19df8

even travel to NSW from Victoria may now be restricted, I really can’t see QLD and the other states opening up to Victoria now

[SOPS]

It’s goodbye to open borders

[PoppaJo]

Dan has just extended state of emergency in a Victoria until July 19.

[normanton]

It's not enough. Shut the state down. The morons ****ed it with the protests. Now they ****ed it for the rest of us.

[Ragnor]

I find it odd that Dan Andrews has dodged answering the actual cause of the increase in community transmissions. No one has or is game to mention BLM protest in fear of any retribution because Dan Andrews didn’t appose the protest. He would rather blame honest family’s having a catch up as the primary cause. 20 odd extra cases a day is more than a family bbq.

[normanton]

And yet he has the balls to stand in front of the media and question why anybody would want to travel to SA.

****, I dunno Dan? Maybe they want a holiday where the risk of catching COVID doesn't exist, or maybe they want to go visit a state who doesn't have a corrupt ****ing government.

[BuzzBox]

I find it odd that Dan Andrews has dodged answering the actual cause of the increase in community transmissions. No one has or is game to mention BLM protest in fear of any retribution because Dan Andrews didn’t appose the protest. He would rather blame honest family’s having a catch up as the primary cause. 20 odd extra cases a day is more than a family bbq.

Apparently not:

Victoria has reported 19 more coronavirus cases overnight, including clusters from a large family gathering that has spread across nine households.

One person who already had the virus has infected 11 family members after attending a family gathering in Keilor Downs in Melbourne's north-west.

In a separate case of family transmission, another member of a family in the northern suburb of Coburg has been confirmed to have the virus, bringing the number of infections in that family to 14 across multiple households.

"We have had lots of families, extended families, coming together and having lunch, dinner, other social gatherings, and people not staying home if they have got mild symptoms, and then spreading the virus to family members, who then take it to their workplace, take it to their school," Victoria's Minister for Health Jenny Mikakos told reporters on Sunday morning.

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/new-victoria-covid-cases-delay-easing-20200620-p554k0

[Ragnor]

Well put a shout out to a journalist, I am sure they look at this site. If one of them actually tried to do their job do a little investigating and find real origin of the last 50 cases in the last few days in Victoria I bet there will be more than what Andrews would care to admit that attended a mass gathering a few weeks ago. Pi$$ weak of Andrews to blame family’s I think, he needs to provide proof it was otherwise. His position is almost untenable now needs to be gone!

[CamelSquadron]

Build a wall around Victoria.....and make it permanent....nothing good has ever come out of Victoria anyway.....:)

(in jest)

[Global Aviator]

Build a wall around Victoria.....and make it permanent....nothing good has ever come out of Victoria anyway.....:)

(in jest)

Well it would be a wall around Mexico... :)

[Green.Dot]

Build a wall- could create some jobs- I’m in!

[exfocx]

Well put a shout out to a journalist, I am sure they look at this site. If one of them actually tried to do their job do a little investigating and find real origin of the last 50 cases in the last few days in Victoria I bet there will be more than what Andrews would care to admit that attended a mass gathering a few weeks ago. Pi$$ weak of Andrews to blame family’s I think, he needs to provide proof it was otherwise. His position is almost untenable now needs to be gone!


A nice no evidence claim, typical of conspiracy theorists. So Dan made it up with no supporting evidence and the (Victorian) CMO & DCMO just went along with it?

[Ragnor]

Wouldn’t be the first time politicians BS on anything. Just imagine blaming any of the BLM protesters.....imagine the s$it storm that would create we are in an environment now where the majority can’t speak without being punished by the minority. The total breakdown of where the cases originated does not add up and Andrews will be responsible personally for this second wave and possibly any deaths that’s why they will cover as many as they can.

I am not conspiracy theorist but I can smell a rat from a mile away.

[ozbiggles]

Would it be a red rat by any chance?

[aussieflyboy]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x465/8feafe27_c7b2_4368_8cfb_592e624aaba1_fab0fa36be59de5eebd5bad 29eba5f750ff5accb.jpeg
WA is making good progress on its border trench...

[exfocx]

Wouldn’t be the first time politicians BS on anything. Just imagine blaming any of the BLM protesters.....imagine the s$it storm that would create we are in an environment now where the majority can’t speak without being punished by the minority. The total breakdown of where the cases originated does not add up and Andrews will be responsible personally for this second wave and possibly any deaths that’s why they will cover as many as they can.

I am not conspiracy theorist but I can smell a rat from a mile away.

You just can't make this stuff up! I'd suggest you remove your nose from the area where your backside is located as it's not rat you're smelling. The bolded above; on what grounds do you make that claim, your ATPL? The bit in red is just a childish rant; yeah, the majority are being discriminated, vilified and murdered by the minority. lolololol.

Seriously, use some common sense if you can get away from your bias (you want it to be BLM). The source of the infections claim is coming from the state cv-19 medical team. I've no doubt that if he was lying we'd be hearing about it.

M.Oz.G.A.

[exfocx]

Aussieflyboy lolololol. WA will secede one or the other!

[Buster Hyman]

Happy to pile in on China Dan, but it appears to be Family transmission. The BLM protests have not contributed to the spike...yet.
Of those new cases, one is a close contact of a Keilor Downs family, taking the total number linked to that outbreak to 11 spread across nine households. Another new case is linked to a Coburg family, taking that outbreak to 14, and three are linked to the Stamford Plaza Hotel, bringing that outbreak to 13.

[thisishardtochoose]

Happy to pile in on China Dan, but it appears to be Family transmission. The BLM protests have not contributed to the spike...yet.

Keilor Downs family has been attending work/family gatherings and sending their kids to school despite testing positive to covid. But yes let's just blame the BLM protesters :ugh:

[ozbiggles]

BLM protestors have a noble cause, but they have no idea what the outcome of the public gathering could do or will do, endangering the very people they were seeking to protect. As these family community transmission show this thing will bolt out of the gates if given the opportunity. The implication will be borders shut down longer and aviation held back even longer. It was a stupid ideological thing to do and damaged their cause and that of getting the country and aviation going.

[dr dre]

Three weeks after they began, it looks like the protests in the US have NOT caused an increase in COVID infections:

There’s No Evidence That Protests Have Caused a Coronavirus Surge (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/no-evidence-that-protests-have-caused-a-coronavirus-surge.html)

[clark y]

The big problem with Victoria has been the inconsistencies with the rules from day one.
Ignoring the travelling and concentrating on the social/gathering aspects.
Firstly we are locked down with some fairly strict rules including things like "essential shopping only". OK, we have to beat this virus yet Bunnings not restricted? It should have been closed to non-ABN holders. This caused a few to question the process.
Now we are having weekly demonstrations. The first was deemed illegal and participants told not to go. The police stated that enforcing it was "not feasible". 3x $1600 fines were issued at a later date. The Victorian government has the ability to fine individuals up to $20,000 due to state of emergency powers etc. Who cares that the demonstrators washed their hands-should do it anyway. As for masks, protestors actually would love that- it's a chance to hide if it gets ugly. It's interesting seeing public areas and noting the difference in ratios of mask wearers compared to these events.
I understand the Victorian government didn't want a fight like the US but by doing nothing has undermined it's population's will to bother. Who cares whether there is an outbreak stemming from this or not? If one does occur we can all shout "told you so", if it doesn't, great we've dodged a bullet. The fact that the government demands and threatens daily yet allows certain activities justs creates divide. Why should I bother staying home, no-one else does.
Lock-down fatigue is now becoming very real, people are frustrated and now we are being threatened with door to door visits and the locking down of suburbs.

[rmm]

Keilor Downs family has been attending work/family gatherings and sending their kids to school despite testing positive to covid. :ugh:

Shouldn't they be rounding them up and placing them in a secure hotel like returned travelers?

[normanton]

Three weeks after they began, it looks like the protests in the US have NOT caused an increase in COVID infections:

There’s No Evidence That Protests Have Caused a Coronavirus Surge (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/no-evidence-that-protests-have-caused-a-coronavirus-surge.html)
Thats like claiming the virus doesn't spread on aircraft. Lol.


Lock-down fatigue is now becoming very real, people are frustrated and now we are being threatened with door to door visits and the locking down of suburbs.
Good. Because they are ****ing it for the rest of us. They should all be wound and up placed in an isolation hotel.

[exfocx]

BLM protestors have a noble cause, but they have no idea what the outcome of the public gathering could do or will do, endangering the very people they were seeking to protect. As these family community transmission show this thing will bolt out of the gates if given the opportunity. The implication will be borders shut down longer and aviation held back even longer. It was a stupid ideological thing to do and damaged their cause and that of getting the country and aviation going.


Just listened to the Fed Gov CMO on ABC RN and his concern with the BLM protests wasn't actually transmissions, but that it would move other people to say stuff it, if they can we can!

[ozbiggles]

I agree with that too ex. It is a discipline thing and whether people agree or disagree with how we got to where we are I think we all agree if we drop the ball now on treating Covid as the threat it is, then it will just sux (gave up trying to think of a clever word for it). That will be another hit to the aviation world.

[Green.Dot]

Just listened to the Fed Gov CMO on ABC RN and his concern with the BLM protests wasn't actually transmissions, but that it would move other people to say stuff it, if they can we can!

Simple solution- those who can’t adhere to the rules get their welfare (JobKeeper/JobSeeker/dole/whatever) terminated for 3 months. Reoffend- make it 12. Fines don’t work, we all know they will never get paid.

[exfocx]

Simple solution- those who can’t adhere to the rules get their welfare (JobKeeper/JobSeeker/dole/whatever) terminated for 3 months. Reoffend- make it 12. Fines don’t work, we all know they will never get paid.


Sorry, but I don't agree with that view point and I don't agree with the large % of the community who view a protest such as BLM (inequality etc) as the same as a gathering at the footy or a concert etc. These protests are bloody small in comparison and are held in limited numbers, not the same as 30 odd major sporting events (AFL, NRL, A-League, NBL,ANL, night clubs, pubs and w/end sport club gatherings etc,where the total numbers would likely be over 1/2 mil pw, EVERY week.

[thisishardtochoose]

Shouldn't they be rounding them up and placing them in a secure hotel like returned travelers?

ah you would hope so, but I don't think the taxpayers would like to foot the bill for someone else's incompetence

[ozbiggles]

Why not? We have to foot the bill for that all the time!

ex I understand why the BLM is such a big event but the point is there are no crowds at the footy, cricket, soccer etc etc because we were told they are the rules to keep as many people as safe as possible. The BLM protestors were told that and marched anyway. One of the main reasons Aus and NZ shutdown so hard was to protect the indigenous population who were thought to be most at risk if this pandemic took hold in those countries. It strikes me as worse than ironic. The family transmissions we are now seeing out of Victoria and the effect that will now occur because of that shows the immaturity of their decision to march (maybe not as reckless as a political rally held indoors) It will directly effect aviation in this country getting back on its feet (it is after all an aviation site).

[machtuk]

We are such a weak, divided and corrupt nation, these restrictions etc where never going to work effectively long term! Get used to living in a country that flounders from one cock up to another!

[Green.Dot]

These protests are bloody small in comparison and are held in limited numbers, not the same as 30 odd major sporting events (AFL, NRL, A-League, NBL,ANL, night clubs, pubs and w/end sport club gatherings etc,where the total numbers would likely be over 1/2 mil pw, EVERY week.

Sorry what large sporting crowds are you referring to? Biggest one I have heard of was 2000 in Adelaide a week or so ago. And I wasn’t specifically referring to BLM, more so people who have knowingly tested positive and then think it’s a good idea to go to a family BBQ or go to work.

But that’s ok, let’s just keep breaking the law and getting away with it- seems to be the Australian way!

[exfocx]

Sorry what large sporting crowds are you referring to? Biggest one I have heard of was 2000 in Adelaide a week or so ago. And I wasn’t specifically referring to BLM, more so people who have knowingly tested positive and then think it’s a good idea to go to a family BBQ or go to work.

But that’s ok, let’s just keep breaking the law and getting away with it- seems to be the Australian way!


Green.Dot, (Simple solution- those who can’t adhere to the rules get their welfare (JobKeeper/JobSeeker/dole/whatever) terminated for 3 months.) Sorry, took your comment to be directed broadly against those who break the rules. My comments are in relation to people complaining that if BLM (etc) protests are okay then so is their ability to socialise like the old days (****, hope it doesn't become a reality to view previous norms like that!).

Laws came be made to be whatever the gov of the day wants. QLD outlawed protest marches without a permit in the 70s & 80s (and Joh said none would be given!), so sometimes laws were made to be broken, and no I think those idiots moving around when they have been quarantined isn't an exception, though obviously imo protests are different.

[missy]

Shouldn't they be rounding them up and placing them in a secure hotel like returned travelers?
Maybe, but apparently these "secure" hotels aren't that secure, not policed by the defence forces and many travellers have "checked out" prior to the 14 days quarantine period

[thisishardtochoose]

many travellers have "checked out" prior to the 14 days quarantine period

do you have a source regarding this?

[Stickshift3000]

The hotels I worked in as an authorised officer that housed quarantined travellers were very secure. Very little chance of getting out, let alone without being seen and caught.

The potential penalty for an individual not following the mandatory quarantine direction for overseas arrivals is nearly $20,000 (120 penalty units). All in quarantine are made ware of this on arrival.

[rmm]

Maybe, but apparently these "secure" hotels aren't that secure

It would appear from media reports that the contract security guards are more the issue, not the detained guests.

[benttrees]

The Queensland government, or QIC, has agreed that:
“both Bain Capital and Cyrus Capital Partners - the auction's two final bidders - cut deals with the Queensland government's representatives to keep the airline based in Brisbane in return for about $200 million in benefits.”

If Queensland aren’t going to open their borders, this would appear to be a poor investment.

[Chris2303]

https://australianaviation.com.au/2020/06/australias-border-to-stay-shut-until-vaccine-found-hints-minister/?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=23062020"AUSTRALIA’S BORDER TO STAY SHUT UNTIL VACCINE FOUND, HINTS MINISTER"

[brokenagain]

And if no vaccine is found?

This is all getting ridiculous. When did ‘flatten the curve’ change to eradication? We can’t live in a bubble forever. At some point the government is going to have to have an acceptable level of risk. It’ll be no good if we eradicate coronavirus in a year or two but we’re living in our cars surviving off food stamps. The chance of most Australians catching it let alone dying from it are minute, yet the chances of ending up in major economic hardship is significant due to the destruction of not only our industry but many others.

[TT738]

And if no vaccine is found?

This is all getting ridiculous. When did ‘flatten the curve’ change to eradication? We can’t live in a bubble forever. At some point the government is going to have to have an acceptable level of risk. It’ll be no good if we eradicate coronavirus in a year or two but we’re living in our cars surviving off food stamps. The chance of most Australians catching it let alone dying from it are minute, yet the chances of ending up in major economic hardship is significant due to the destruction of not only our industry but many others.& yet NYC is now open for business & UK relaxing restrictions. Many are not taking any notice of social distancing after the protests.

This can't go on. Politicians have to be very careful now.

[ozbiggles]

I think it is pretty clear, other than the bubble the international borders will not be open until in my guess late next year best case. The reaction to even a small at this stage breakout in Victoria and everything the feds say I present as evidence. My guess is also based on Qantas, AirNZ and most likely VA parking their big jets in the desert now. You don’t do that for anything less than 6 months. I would love to see evidence against that but I see none or a very least an overwhelming amount saying it’s all a score of zero ( not yet competent) for just about anything EDTO.

[dolphi]

Not letting Australians leave the country in my opinion is quite disturbing. It feels to me like we're living in a communist country. I understand that we can't go travelling and return to Australia like nothing happened but if they can put measures in place for international students, they can put measure in place for Australians wishing to travel. There are many options!

[ElZilcho]

And if no vaccine is found?

This is all getting ridiculous. When did ‘flatten the curve’ change to eradication? We can’t live in a bubble forever. At some point the government is going to have to have an acceptable level of risk. It’ll be no good if we eradicate coronavirus in a year or two but we’re living in our cars surviving off food stamps. The chance of most Australians catching it let alone dying from it are minute, yet the chances of ending up in major economic hardship is significant due to the destruction of not only our industry but many others.

For us in NZ, it changed while we were all in lockdown. We were sold on flattening the curve, the overnight it changed to Eradication. Now every time someone tests positive while in border quarantine it’s national news (admittedly the boffins did screw up letting people out un tested).

With the election approaching (on both sides of the Tasman I believe) those in charge will continue to do what’s popular. For us, that means saint Jacinda will continue to make serious faces on TV and preach about the wellbeing of NZ citizens... until the money runs out of course, but she’ll probably be re-elected by then.

[Bodie1]

until the money runs out of course

Just print more money.

[currawong]

The hotels I worked in as an authorised officer that housed quarantined travellers were very secure. Very little chance of getting out, let alone without being seen and caught.

The potential penalty for an individual not following the mandatory quarantine direction for overseas arrivals is nearly $20,000 (120 penalty units). All in quarantine are made ware of this on arrival.

Indeed. But not before this individual broke quarantine several times and used public transport while doing so.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-15/man-jailed-for-breaching-coronavirus-quarantine-by-leaving-hotel/12149908

As for flattening the curve versus eradication?

Not that long ago flattening the curve was the best we dared hope for.

Eradication may just be possible short/ medium term for some nations.

[galdian]

Just print more money.

If you're going to make smartarse/moronic comments then at least use emoji's or else far too many will take you seriously, I for one have no doubt you were aiming for humour. :ok:

You were - weren't you....:eek:

See what I did there - observation and rectification all tied up in a neat little bow! :p:p:p

Cheers

[Bodie1]

galdian, who/how is this all to be paid for? Is the magic money fairy stumping up? It's all well and good to say 'we can't put the economy ahead of lives' but the thought process that some people have that eradication will ever be achieved defies belief.

There is no plan. If the solution to Victoria's spike in cases is to re-lock down every time there's a spike? Well, how long will that go on? Years? Decades? WA, QLD, SA and TAS will all experience new cases at some point, what are they going to do?

I'm interstate for work. I just cancelled a flight to VIC because heading down there and back here will now see me in for a 3rd two week isolation period. I'm just one person. How many of that massive sale of Jetstar fares will get cancelled and re-scheduled? And this is just one segment of the economy that is dealing with ridiculous uncertainty.

The economy will not be able to pay for this for a whole lot longer. The only solution is to..............print more money ;) (there's your emoticon)

[Green.Dot]

There is no plan. If the solution to Victoria's spike in cases is to re-lock down every time there's a spike? Well, how long will that go on? Years? Decades? WA, QLD, SA and TAS will all experience new cases at some point, what are they going to do?

100% agree. What is the plan going forward? The goal posts certainly appear to have been moved to eradication. It won’t succeed, unless those in power are happy to let their grandkids live in poverty for the rest of their lives

[Ragnor]

No link link provided yet, But, EU is considering closing all their borders to Americans. If Australia truly wants eradication all international flights need to be turned back and stooped from coming. Seeing what happened in Victoria with hotel isolation, outbreaks can still occur. .

[73to91]

What I cannot get my head around is why there have been international pax flights into Oz. Who are the Australians returning home?

Surely most intelligent Australians got home to Australia when they could have and yet they are still coming in.

This link https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/flights.aspx
shows arrival dates from Apr 1st into Sydney.

[morno]

What I cannot get my head around is why there have been international pax flights into Oz. Who are the Australians returning home?

Surely most intelligent Australians got home to Australia when they could have and yet they are still coming in.

This link https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/flights.aspx
shows arrival dates from Apr 1st into Sydney.

People actually do work overseas. God forbid they continue to do so :ugh:

[galdian]

Bodie

Apology for maybe bad choice of words, just having some fun. ;)

On a previous thread I had a vigorous discussion when the $60Billion error was discovered that we had "saved" that money, others felt it was there to be spent.

Just seen another person has died in Vic, total 103 nationwide. I would also note that a fair few others also died - cancer, flu, heart attacks....whatever. But we don't worry about them.

The agenda is being controlled by individuals who's mindset has changed from containment to eradication - and this is accepted and tolerated, every day we aren't getting back to "normal" is another death by a thousand cuts to the economy.

Also the two states huffing and puffing the most are Labor - the party generally with the least care about money and the greatest faith it grows on trees or left at the bottom of the garden by the money fairies.

My only thought is maybe ScoMo should clearly point out the federal government will happily assist with funding to the states - but not unreasonably primarily to the states that are helping themselves and the rest of Australia to move forward.

[Bend alot]

Most states and territories have been able to make harsh decisions to bring the virus to a contained and controlled position, but not all states.

When this can not be controlled (including compliance) when cluster numbers and cases are low - what possibility will these states have with multiple large clusters and high case numbers.

I am not a believer in giving everyone "participation awards" and it is simple to over fly Victoria, at least till they get a C- for control and containment.

[Bodie1]

Apology for maybe bad choice of words, just having some fun.

No apology required mate, I know you were jiving but it was a good segue for me ;)

[thisishardtochoose]

The problem is the borders internationally have never ever been closed from day dot, it is a great misconception that Australians believe our borders are closed.

You only have to look at Flightaware to see so many internationals arrivals and departures continuing into and out of Australia. Especially from high risk countries.

Most if not all of these said flights are Cargo Only and with some of them being repatriation flights. So yes our borders are closed to tourists.

[Ragnor]

What is the problem with Daniel Andrews?! This guy is so incompetent. He has sent the military away leaving only 150 thinking he has it under control.

[Xeptu]

It doesn't matter if the border are open or not, we over 50's are not travelling anyway. Everyone I have spoken to about it states straight off the bat, oh yes! I can hardly wait, then when you ask what if you get sick and then the answers that matter come out. Oh well I would have to be vaccinated, why I say what if there isn't one. then there are new questions, if I get infected, where will I be treated, how will I be treated, who's paying for that and most importantly how do I get home. So there you have your answer, we won't be travelling for quite a while yet and most of our young people can't afford to anyway. This means there isn't going to be cruise ships and airliners filled with tourists anytime soon.

[DirectAnywhere]

What is the problem with Daniel Andrews?! This guy is so incompetent. He has sent the military away leaving only 150 thinking he has it under control.

Media reports indicate that it was because the Victoria Police Union was unimpressed with the idea of military personnel performing certain roles in quarantine hotels. Seriously. Great to see that even in these times the Andrews government can be held
to ransom by public sector unions.

[Lookleft]

Dan Andrews used to be indecisive but now he is not so sure.

[ScepticalOptomist]

It doesn't matter if the border are open or not, we over 50's are not travelling anyway. Everyone I have spoken to about it states straight off the bat, oh yes! I can hardly wait, then when you ask what if you get sick and then the answers that matter come out. Oh well I would have to be vaccinated, why I say what if there isn't one. then there are new questions, if I get infected, where will I be treated, how will I be treated, who's paying for that and most importantly how do I get home. So there you have your answer, we won't be travelling for quite a while yet and most of our young people can't afford to anyway. This means there isn't going to be cruise ships and airliners filled with tourists anytime soon.

Amongst the bunch of my parents friends - all over 65, and most over 70, the attitude is a little different - as intrepid travellers, they’re chomping at the bit to get out and “live” again - being holed up is worse than a death sentence for them..

Thankfully the world is made up of all types!

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

The Northern Territory have announced they will push through with their July 17 open date, but will not allow visitors from areas deemed hotspots (requiring a statutory declaration to be filled out).

This seems like a good strategy to manage the health risks of opening the borders.

Maybe requiring an ID check upon arrival to bolster this policy would be worth pursuing.

[Buster Hyman]

Seriously. Great to see that even in these times the Andrews government can be held to ransom by public sector unions.
And another good CFA Leader gone too thanks to his Union pandering...anyway, I recall how good it was to have all State & Fed Govt. leaders working towards the same goal. That seems to have gone by the wayside now.:(

[White Knight]

Not letting Australians leave the country in my opinion is quite disturbing. It feels to me like we're living in a communist country. I understand that we can't go travelling and return to Australia like nothing happened but if they can put measures in place for international students, they can put measure in place for Australians wishing to travel. There are many options!

In total agreement with you here! So many 'Aussies' come from so many other countries (my own family included) yet can't travel in the foreseeable future. Especially now as a lot of the rest of the world has realised that we're going to have to live with this virus (with it's very low mortality rate) and there may never be a vaccine or cure!

[ozbiggles]

I have no problem with people travelling. As long as they sign up for a 14 day stay at their cost in a ‘guarded hotel’ on their return. Be good for the local hotel industry. Plus they will need to pay for any medical bills they incur as no travel insurance will cover them.
No exceptions on the 14 day in a hotel room. People can’t be trusted to stay at home in self quarantine.
Do they want to go with that rule set in place?

[Slezy9]

In total agreement with you here! So many 'Aussies' come from so many other countries (my own family included) yet can't travel in the foreseeable future. Especially now as a lot of the rest of the world has realised that we're going to have to live with this virus (with it's very low mortality rate) and there may never be a vaccine or cure!

Maybe they should apply for an exemption? It took minutes and I’m only a PR of another country. If your relatives are from other countries then they don’t even have to apply. They can leave on the other countries passport.

[Xeptu]

Amongst the bunch of my parents friends - all over 65, and most over 70, the attitude is a little different - as intrepid travellers, they’re chomping at the bit to get out and “live” again - being holed up is worse than a death sentence for them..

Thankfully the world is made up of all types!

That's exactly my point, they are all saying that, yeah bring it on lets go, until you present them with, what will you do if you become infected in a foreign country.
No Insurance cover
No Health Care
Possibly hospitalised
Not allowed to travel even if you are physically able
All at you own cost

What they say they will do and what they will do when presented with the opportunity are two very different things.

[theSOD]

That's exactly my point, they are all saying that, yeah bring it on lets go, until you present them with, what will you do if you become infected in a foreign country.
No Insurance cover
No Health Care
Possibly hospitalised
Not allowed to travel even if you are physically able
All at you own cost

What they say they will do and what they will do when presented with the opportunity are two very different things.

Truer words have never been spoken.

However, you will still get the short sighted that wont give it a thought and they'll potentially reap what they sow in some far away land. The airlines wont mind.. They've got your dollars! :E

[Bend alot]

In total agreement with you here! So many 'Aussies' come from so many other countries (my own family included) yet can't travel in the foreseeable future. Especially now as a lot of the rest of the world has realised that we're going to have to live with this virus (with it's very low mortality rate) and there may never be a vaccine or cure!
What you are describing is the Bridging Visa E, this border closure is much less restrictive than the BVE that can never get travel rights..

The mortality rate in Australia is fairly low, not so in many other countries. Closed cases of Covid-19 World Wide is a 9% mortality rate, recently improved from 12% last week.

[ScepticalOptomist]

That's exactly my point, they are all saying that, yeah bring it on lets go, until you present them with, what will you do if you become infected in a foreign country.
No Insurance cover
No Health Care
Possibly hospitalised
Not allowed to travel even if you are physically able
All at you own cost

What they say they will do and what they will do when presented with the opportunity are two very different things.

Of course they want to do it safely - things will settle down and improve, faster than most expect, and solutions to the problems will surface one way or another.

I realise this is a great place for the doom and gloom paraders, but I think things will improve quicker than most anticipate.

We have been dealing with with virus properly for about 3 months. A lot has changed in that time, a lot more will
change in the next 3-6months.

[Xeptu]

The solution to the problem is a vaccine, so two years of international border closures is realistic at this point along with a deep and long global recession. The effects of which will be felt in about 3 months.

[ruprecht]

The solution to the problem is a vaccine, so two years of international border closures is realistic at this point along with a deep and long global recession. The effects of which will be felt in about 3 months.

No, “a” solution is a vaccine. If we get 2, 3 or 5 years down the track without a vaccine, what then?

[Xeptu]

In the absence of a vaccine and unless the virus is eradicated by stopping it's transmission, we'll be back to the days when no-one went on overseas holidays.

[dr dre]

I don’t think people are getting the main problem here. All the talk of statistics, case fatality rates, R-noughts etc is well and good, but that’s not what’s driving discourse at the moment. Taking some recent headlines straight off the news.com.au page (yes it’s tabloid but it’s also what a lot of Australians read so...):

“Expecting up to 25 cases: Hundreds Flying In From Virus Hotspots”
“Returned Travellers Refusing Virus Tests”
“Surprise Party Infects 18 Guests”
“Scary 9 Day Virus Milestone”
“This Virus Isn’t Going Anywhere”

ANY new cases of this virus are being treated as a tabloid media tragedy. To the point where the media have lost all focus on any rational plans to live with this virus, and solely create headlines to scare the public which politicians in turn have to react to. People obviously want something close to eradication.

Victoria has 29 new cases and media reports it as an utter disaster. Yesterday Germany had 500 new cases, Spain 400, Italy 200 and France 300 but over there things are getting back to normal, borders are reopening without restriction and airlines are flying again. I’m sure the lack of fearmongering news sites like news.com.au helps with their mindset

[brokenagain]

The solution to the problem is a vaccine, so two years of international border closures is realistic at this point along with a deep and long global recession. The effects of which will be felt in about 3 months.

In the absence of a vaccine and unless the virus is eradicated by stopping it's transmission, we'll be back to the days when no-one went on overseas holidays.

Your previous predictions of Australia’s outbreak being worse than Europe and the US, and the complete worldwide closure of all borders for a month didn’t even come close to fruition, so Nostradamus you are not.

While a vaccine may never be found, what is as important is the further progression of effective treatments, and considering the time, money and effort spent researching those at the moment and how far they’ve already come in only 3 or 4 months, I feel they will be the key to things improving going forward.

[Xeptu]

Never volunteer and never be the first. If in 5 years from now those recovered cases need to be permanently strapped to an O2 bottle just for some sort of normality or there are any fertility issues arising, that's an even bigger problem and not just to our health system. Lets keep the numbers low until we know what we're dealing with and what acceptable risk is. Dying from it only appears to be the biggest risk at this point.

[Buster Hyman]

Never volunteer and never be the first.
And never make sweeping statements.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Never volunteer and never be the first. If in 5 years from now those recovered cases need to be permanently strapped to an O2 bottle just for some sort of normality or there are any fertility issues arising, that's an even bigger problem and not just to our health system. Lets keep the numbers low until we know what we're dealing with and what acceptable risk is. Dying from it only appears to be the biggest risk at this point.

Wow - you are a glass half empty type! :-)

Life is way too short to take it all so seriously. The world shall go on, like it always has!

[Bend alot]

In the NT -The Territory stayed safe by closing our borders to all states.

In the next step, we will stay safe by keeping our borders closed to suburbs and hot spots that are not safe.

This is about being prepared – using the four weeks we gave ourselves to be prepared.

From the 17th of July: if your suburb or local government area has been declared a coronavirus hot spot, then you will not be permitted free access to the Territory.

You will be required to self-quarantine for 14 days. And it will be enforced.

In addition to the current arrival information, you will be required to declare if you have been in, or travelled through, a hot spot in the last 28 days.

Making a false statement in a statutory declaration is against the law. If we find you have lied on the border form – been to a hot spot but told us that you hadn’t – it could mean a prison sentence of up to three years.

If you are from interstate and you live in a hot spot area, your own government is telling you the area is not safe, and you should be in lock down.

If you are meant to be in lock down, then you shouldn’t be leaving your home. You shouldn’t be coming here.

If you do leave your home and come here, we will lock you down, and if you break our rules, we can lock you up.

So don’t come here.

For everyone else – the 99 per cent of Australia that’s safe – we will be open, and we can’t wait to see you.

[currawong]

Bend alot -

Not really hard and perfectly reasonable under the circumstances.

But some will lose their proverbial over it.

As always.

[wheels_down]

Dan is closing Tulla until mid July.

[SOPS]

Dan is closing Tulla until mid July.

Is that all flights or just international ones?

[thisishardtochoose]

Is that all flights or just international ones?

Has asked all International Repatriation flights to be moved to other cities for the next 2 weeks

[ozbiggles]

Well down wheels down, an excellent demo of why you have to check what you read on the internet.

[DanV2]

On a related note, AA has now cancelled/pushed back the resumption of SYD and AKL to LAX until early 2021.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/american-airlines-plans-october-restart-for-sydney-auckland

[Chris2303]

According to the proposed timetable, Aussies would be able to travel to New Zealand and the Pacific from 1 July, with travel to other countries deemed safe under a bilateral health agreement to restart from 10 September.

Nice to see that the travel agent was wrong AGAIN!

And now with the outbreaks in Victoria stopping all international flights and in NSW the chances of September for Trans Tasman and Pacific are looking even more remote

[BNEA320]

Nice to see that the travel agent was wrong AGAIN!

And now with the outbreaks in Victoria stopping all international flights and in NSW the chances of September for Trans Tasman and Pacific are looking even more remote
& uk open to 75 countries from next week with no insane restrictions or quarantine. Tourism restart task force said 1 july for nz but ardern wants to play dictator before she gets booted in September

[Slezy9]

& uk open to 75 countries from next week with no insane restrictions or quarantine. Tourism restart task force said 1 july for nz but ardern wants to play dictator before she gets booted in September

How many times can someone be wrong before they give up?? Border Quarantine works when implemented properly.

[BNEA320]

How many times can someone be wrong before they give up?? Border Quarantine works when implemented properly.
cannot believe any pilot doesn't want to work.

quarantine totally unnecessary. Healthy people don't die from corona. Most don't even know that have it. Only the unhealthy should be in lock down and their carers

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

& uk open to 75 countries from next week with no insane restrictions or quarantine. Tourism restart task force said 1 july for nz but ardern wants to play dictator before she gets booted in September

The UK has over 300,000 cases and 43,000 deaths, do you really think that emulating their policies is the best idea?

Jacinda Ardern approval ratings are skyrocketing in NZ because of her strict border controls.

BNEA320, it is embarrassing how wrong you are on this issue, please give it a rest.

[BNEA320]

The UK has over 300,000 cases and 43,000 deaths, do you really think that emulating their policies is the best idea?

Jacinda Ardern approval ratings are skyrocketing in NZ because of her strict border controls.

BNEA320, it is embarrassing how wrong you are on this issue, please give it a rest.
yes uk is right in opening borders. They should have locked down unhealthy though. Think ardern will be booted. Many hate her with a passion. She's killed economy like here. All depends how dumb nz electorate is.

maybe new govt in qld and nz soon

[ScepticalOptomist]

The UK has over 300,000 cases and 43,000 deaths, do you really think that emulating their policies is the best idea?

Jacinda Ardern approval ratings are skyrocketing in NZ because of her strict border controls.

BNEA320, it is embarrassing how wrong you are on this issue, please give it a rest.

You are missing his point.

Number of infected increasing due to more testing finding more cases.

Number of hospitalisations reducing, as is rate of death from those infected.

Check out the data - not the headlines.

UK - https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

There is more to the story than the mass fear generating headlines.

[BNEA320]

And only the unhealthy die. Complete over reaction by govts here.

so uk economy will kick off nicely next week & we still have state border closures here. Crazy.

if my life had be ruined by insane govt decisions I'd be wanting to take revenge on govt.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

You are missing his point.

Number of infected increasing due to more testing finding more cases.

Number of hospitalisations reducing, as is rate of death from those infected.

Check out the data - not the headlines.

UK - https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

There is more to the story than the mass fear generating headlines.

So what is your contention? Open the borders to all and sundry? Allow the elderly and immunocompromised to be the sacrificial lambs for the sake of preserving our high paying jobs?

Speaking as a stood down pilot, I have zero issue with taking 12-18 months of reduced/no pay for the sake of the greater good.

Use this period to spend time with family, work in another industry, study or simply have a break and get into a normal sleeping routine.

Those that wollow in self pity will remain bitter and twisted about a situation that is beyond our control, those who accept what is happening and look at the big picture may actually come out the end of this with a positive experience.

[BNEA320]

So what is your contention? Open the borders to all and sundry? Allow the elderly and immunocompromised to be the sacrificial lambs for the sake of preserving our high paying jobs?

Speaking as a stood down pilot, I have zero issue with taking 12-18 months of reduced/no pay for the sake of the greater good.

Use this period to spend time with family, work in another industry, study or simply have a break and get into a normal sleeping routine.

Those that wollow in self pity will remain bitter and twisted about a situation that is beyond our control, those who accept what is happening and look at the big picture may actually come out the end of this with a positive experience.
we should have locked down the unhealthy & their carers & on one else. Can still do that.
you seem to forget that govt policies here led to more deaths than Corona. .... suicide overdoses dv. Depression ruined lives. Looks like jobkeeper/jobseeker might end early or be highly modified.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

we should have locked down the unhealthy & their carers & on one else. Can still do that.
you seem to forget that govt policies here led to more deaths than Corona. .... suicide overdoses dv. Depression ruined lives. Looks like jobkeeper/jobseeker might end early or be highly modified.Here’s why it won’t work to just isolate the elderly and vulnerable
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/03/heres-why-it-wont-work-just-isolate-elderly-vulnerable/

Have a read of something outside the echo chamber of your own opinion.

[ScepticalOptomist]

So what is your contention? Open the borders to all and sundry? Allow the elderly and immunocompromised to be the sacrificial lambs for the sake of preserving our high paying jobs?



No mate, was just pointing out that you’d missed his point.

I don’t know what the best way to handle this problem is - I believe keeping the STATE borders closed is ridiculous. AUSTRALIA has enough medical resources to deal with any community infection now. The media led hyper fear regarding the current Victorian clusters is amusing - what were we trying to achieve again? Zero cases? An unburdened health system?
We aren’t seperate kingdoms, we are the one country. One economy that is bleeding badly due to poor management at the state level.

I’m also stood down, and have been since March. I have enough resources tucked away to be fine with no pay until late next year. No self pity here - but the more I read the data, and ignore the headlines, the clearer the picture becomes.

We all have our opinions - some are learned, others are just plucked. Either way, there’s no need to shout down the opinions that don’t match our own.

Stay safe, enjoy the time off, and question everything! :-)

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

No mate, was just pointing out that you’d missed his point.

I don’t know what the best way to handle this problem is - I believe keeping the STATE borders closed is ridiculous. AUSTRALIA has enough medical resources to deal with any community infection now. The media led hyper fear regarding the current Victorian clusters is amusing - what were we trying to achieve again? Zero cases? An unburdened health system?
We aren’t seperate kingdoms, we are the one country. One economy that is bleeding badly due to poor management at the state level.

I’m also stood down, and have been since March. I have enough resources tucked away to be fine with no pay until late next year. No self pity here - but the more I read the data, and ignore the headlines, the clearer the picture becomes.

We all have our opinions - some are learned, others are just plucked. Either way, there’s no need to shout down the opinions that don’t match our own.

Stay safe, enjoy the time off, and question everything! :-)

sounds like we’re on a similar page!

I’m happy for state borders to be opened, perhaps with restrictions on those from hotspots (ala NT & NSW).

BNEA320’s opinion is that international borders should be opened, which I strongly disagree with.

[Australopithecus]

After admitting you don’t know the best way to handle the virus is you then opine that closing the borders is ridiculous. Apart from that cognitive dissonance, can you not see that there is no middle ground with the virus? Either we eradicate it or we deal with surges with more lock-downs and the whole whack-a-mole endless crisis. Or we could always adopt the populist approach and let it burn through the population and hope that immunity is robust and long-lasting, neither of which is currently in evidence.

[ozbiggles]

And only the unhealthy die. Complete over reaction by govts here.

so uk economy will kick off nicely next week & we still have state border closures here. Crazy.

if my life had be ruined by insane govt decisions I'd be wanting to take revenge on govt.

There have been quite a few health care workers die from this thing after caring for those infected with Covid. I’m pretty sure they were healthy when they started work at the beginning of this.

And you think the UK economy will be kicking off nicely? Really, please don’t give anyone close to you financial advice anytime soon.

And then we get into insurrection talk, I hope the CIA don’t scan PPrune.

[rmm]

Healthy people don't die from corona.

A quick google shows 151 doctors and more than 40 nurses have died in Italy from coronavirus disease (that was dated April)

[Bend alot]

- I believe keeping the STATE borders closed is ridiculous. AUSTRALIA has enough medical resources to deal with any community infection now.
Any evidence to back up the medical resources?

The large cities have enough resources to cover small numbers (outbreaks) in the community, should we start getting +1000 new cases a day - we simply do not have enough ICU beds, Vic has had 5 or so ICU beds this past few days.

Pick a rural town of 5,000 people and introduce the virus, then follow the Gray Nomad (with or without symptoms) interaction and location for a 2 week period over many towns and public locations.

RFDS will need extra funding to transport the country folk to the ICU beds with ventilators.

[currawong]

State borders are not closed and never have been.:ugh:

Restricted, not closed.

Closed to discretionary travelers, ie tourists but open to pretty much everyone else.

Have just been issued a new border pass for QLD. Conditions imposed same or tougher than prior to "opening".:D

Get over it. Be it drought, bushfires or Covid 19, without a TV 99% of Australians would not even be aware of it.

Sad but true.

[ozbiggles]

The RFDS have got extra funding for Covid ops...Is it enough...? hopefully we will never get to find out. I suspect if the workload got heavy other assets such as the military would also come into play. A story today from the Qld papers said they had 250 applicants for the Mount Isa job so pilots aren’t an issue!

In terms of medical resources the HPPC has been advising there is no need to close state borders so they seem comfortable with the resources available. If they didn’t know then no one would.The states are only shut ( or restricted Curra 😁) for the premiers ratings. The HPPC are also the ones saying to keep the international borders shut. I find myself agreeing with that state of play, in my learned view.

[Bend alot]

The RFDS have got extra funding for Covid ops...Is it enough...? hopefully we will never get to find out.

It is never enough!

Not sure if you are aware, but with closed borders state and international (Worldwide) and other tough restrictions, the mortality rate of resolved cases has been dropping.

Just a couple or maybe 3 weeks ago of all known resolved cases 12% were in death, today it stands at 8%. When this first got serious in Australia, the intrusive test results were taking around 5 days to get a result, now we get the result often same or following day. There is also a saliva test that is much more pleasant to take. Closed boarders have allowed us to get better prepared.

Victoria is a classic example that we are not fully prepared to open borders, having the virus around in small numbers is manageable but allowing exponential growth and not being able to put a cap on it extremely fast is the problem.

Government employees will tow the government line - Scomo's focus is on the economy, his employees will tailor discussion toward that focus.

Now if we just open everything up and let it go wild - we could loose much of or indigenous population, destroying many tribes and their culture and tourism that it generates. Then get placed on many countries no go travel list due to our high levels of virus, destroying more tourism when we open international boarders for many more years to come.

Several states are opening up borders soon, responsible one will shut them fast in cases rise even in small numbers.

[Turnleft080]

Dan is closing Tulla until mid July.

Just like Nero burning Rome down to the ground. Don't forget people if you go outside
your postcode we will crucify you. Don't expect that state to pay for it either.
Buy your own planks of wood from Bunnings and the Covid police will do the rest.
From the honourable Emperor Dan

[ozbiggles]

Section 2B has some competition

[White Knight]

There have been quite a few health care workers die from this thing after caring for those infected with Covid. I’m pretty sure they were healthy when they started work at the beginning of this.


Bit of a stupid statement: Because they're health workers they must be healthy??? I've seen so many many morbidly obese doctors and nurses in the UK it defies belief.

[Australopithecus]

Bit of a stupid statement: Because they're health workers they must be healthy??? I've seen so many many morbidly obese doctors and nurses in the UK it defies belief.

And how do you know the body mass of deceased health care workers? Dr Li Wenliang wasn’t obese, and neither were most of the deceased health care workers I have seen mentioned since. We really don’t want to go down the road of deciding who is expendable and who isn’t for what should be obvious reasons.

[Chris2303]

And only the unhealthy die.

So the 20-30 year olds in the USA are not healthy?

[ozbiggles]

Really White Knight, that is your contribution? Okkkkkkkkkkk.

[currawong]

https://www.travelweekly.com.au/article/wondering-when-international-travel-will-restart-this-new-chart-could-hold-the-answer/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_term=&utm_content=Wondering%20when%20international%20travel%20will %20restart%3F%20This%20new%20chart%20could%20hold%20the%20an swer&utm_campaign=Travel%20Weekly%3A%20Thursday%2028%20May%202020



& this paragraph in particular …



According to the proposed timetable, Aussies would be able to travel to New Zealand and the Pacific from 1 July, with travel to other countries deemed safe under a bilateral health agreement to restart from 10 September.

However, it appears all international travel wouldn’t resume until after 15 December.

The Tourism Restart Taskforce is planning for all domestic travel, including domestic expedition cruises, to restart from 5 June.


& my guess, jobkeeper & jobseeker to go early, as country can't afford it. As it is, GST will have to increase. To what ? 15%, 20% or more ?


Here we are how many weeks on and...

"The reopening of Queensland's borders to interstate visitors will do little to revive the state's crippled tourism sector."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-04/coronavirus-queensland-holiday-flights-now-borders-to-open/12407718

[Buster Hyman]

International arrivals into Sydney airport to be capped at 450 per day, affecting flightsBy Natassia ChrysanthosInternational arrivals into Sydney airport will be capped at 450 people per day as the city faces pressure on its capacity to quarantine returned travellers.

The limit comes into effect at midnight tonight and will last until July 17, with the possibility of extension.

It also restricts each incoming flight to a maximum of 50 passengers.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade’s Smart Traveller website says the Victorian government’s request to pause all international passenger flights into Melbourne for two weeks had placed pressure on Sydney’s quarantine facilities.

“If you’re scheduled to fly into Sydney in the coming days and weeks, confirm your itinerary and onward travel plans with your airline,” it says.

The Australian High Commission in the United Kingdom in a statement said it anticipated international flights into Sydney would be disrupted.

“This will mean some flights may no longer be viable and therefore will not operate,” the statement said.

It advised prospective travellers to confirm their itineraries with their airline and to check the High Commission’s Facebook page for updates.

Yeah, that'll work...

[ozbiggles]

Seems to be a bit of a reaction going on to something to be announced at such short notice. That will teach the Victorians to try and do things for their mates.

[normanton]

Andrews should grow some balls and close Victoria’s borders for the sake of the country. What a joke. Anyone who broke quarantine rules down there, including security guards, should be jailed.

[Australopithecus]

What stunning ineptitude on the part of the Victorian government. Well, except not many people would be actually stunned at the display of gross mismanagement. The defence of our borders got moved to quarantine hotels, yet the military was sidelined in favour of the bozo sector of private security.

The fifty per flight cap would surely render the whole idea moot from a cost perspective. Perhaps Morrison should just pause the entire inbound passenger services for a couple of weeks until we see if we can stuff the genie back into the bottle.

[PoppaJo]

Cut Melbourne off from the Regional areas. Essentially the entire of Metro Melbourne keep isolated from everywhere else. Lock down Metro Melbourne.

Cut Geelong off from Melbourne. Bendigo etc...

[ozbiggles]

And how do you propose to achieve that? Tanks on the streets? Police on every road? Any idea of how may roads that would be?

[PoppaJo]

Only 5 Major roads out of Metro Melbourne. Geelong/Bendigo/Ballarat can be cut off with the closure of Princess/Western/Calder.

Let Melbourne sort out its own problems. Don’t punish regional areas. These places will be glad to cut ties with Melbourne and can thrive without them.

[ozbiggles]

So regional Victoria can do without access to the major hospitals, medical specialists, food distribution centres, mental health specialists, the list can go on and in more normal times the transport hubs. You quote 3 highways that need to be cut off....do you think there might be a thousand entry and access points to those roads? How many checkpoints would you need to police that? And then you need to stop people flying in the regions too just to keep it aviation related.

[Square Bear]

NZ is Quite often held up by the AUS press as the shining light world leader in its success in combatting Covid 19...and I agree totally they have done a fantastic job. Their “score sits at 306 cases per 1 million population , and sadly 4 deaths per 1 million population. For a country that does a Lot of testing that is an extremely admirable achievement.

Now The AUS press suggest that due to the latest “mistep” by “Chairman” Dan (the Australian Newspaper ref) AUS Is in the land of Covid frefall.

A quick google search shows that the latest figure for AUS are 328 cases per 1 million population, and sadly 4 deaths per 1 million population. So despite the issues in Victoria it would seem AUS is not on the path to Armageddon, AND is on par with NZ which upheld as doing such a fantastic job in beating the “Bastard”.

Perhaps some State Premiers should start acting like Australians rather than Redneck pre Federation thinkers they are presently portraying.

Not only does the Aviation industry need borders to be free, so do the businesses that rely on travellers of all ilk.

So perhaps the State Premiers work out how to solve their internal outbreaks, and allow access through the states.

[brokenagain]

If COVID has taught me anything, it’s how many people don’t know the difference between ‘border’ and ‘boarder’.

[Lookleft]

The problem is Melbourne is the new Ruby Princess. I don't blame the other States for denying access to Victorians. Chairman Dan made some big statements about how Victoria was leading the country in covid management, now he just looks like an idiot.

[Green.Dot]

A complete moron but not quite as stupid as the minister who should have been supervising the hotel quarantine. Well done Labor, your ties with the unions and insistence to use “old mates” security company and their “guards” will haunt you for years to come. And haunt Australia.

[Bend alot]

So perhaps the State Premiers work out how to solve their internal outbreaks, and allow access through the states.

State and territory governments fund most of the spending for community health services.

Very much like funding for the RFDS - each state looks after itself, mostly with a uneven distribution of funds from the Feds.

[Bodie1]

I returned from overseas, was quarantined in a Sydney, NSW hotel. The NSW Police and Army managed this process. The process on implementing the co-operation between the defence force and NSW Police was obviously extremely well managed. At all times I was treated with respect, at the same time it was clear that this process was serious. The defence force personnel were on every floor (I can only assume this as I was on the 9th floor and saw them there).

It was clear that you weren't leaving that hotel, let alone your floor or your room.

Daniel Andrews does what he is told by the union bosses. He is a useful idiot. He has proven over and over again that he has no decision making authority. He is a puppet of the factions.

Anyone who has attended any event where these 'security' personnel are used knows they have the respect of no one. To say they 'command' authority is a joke. And looking at the actions of a few of them, have no integrity.

Well done Chairman Dan.

[brokenagain]

Police forcing people to remain inside their Flemington housing commission apartments sounds very similar to the stories of buildings in Wuhan being welded shut to keep people inside. It’s Chairman Dan’s socialist utopian dream coming true!

[Ragnor]

It’s what is needed to save rest of the country.

[dr dre]

The defence of our borders got moved to quarantine hotels, yet the military was sidelined in favour of the bozo sector of private security.


What makes you think military personnel would’ve been acted any differently? Here’s some bozo Australian soldiers deciding to blatantly break lockdown restrictions themselves. (https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12147812)

Police forcing people to remain inside their Flemington housing commission apartments sounds very similar to the stories of buildings in Wuhan being welded shut to keep people inside. It’s Chairman Dan’s socialist utopian dream coming true!

Isn’t it funny how all you guys who bashed China for being an authoritarian dictatorship by locking it’s citizens in their apartments in January when the virus hit there, then turned around in March and denounced China for not locking their citizens in their apartments faster and sooner than they did to supposedly stop the spread of the virus overseas?

If Dan A locks people in their apartments to stop the virus spread he’s an authoritarian dictator, but then if he doesn’t and the virus spreads the same people would call him an incompetent disease spreader who should’ve lockdown harder to prevent virus spread.

What you’re seeing is politics at work. The same reason why the premiers of QLD and WA have been slammed for border closures but the premiers of TAS and SA have basically escaped criticism for doing the exact same thing. I wonder what the difference is....?

[-41]

dr dre, the results speak for themselves, Victoria is infested others are not.

[currawong]

I feel some sympathy for Premier Andrews, in spite of the obvious.

He moved early, he moved hard. I suspect because he knew the public/ public servants he was dealing with.

That it failed in implementation is inexcusable.

The thin line we walked before that had people squealing is nothing compared to where we are heading now.

[rmm]

Why did he take so long too act? One security guard was associated with the first family cluster. Had he properly quarantined this group and their contacts
we might not be where we are today. Why he let it get out of control before he acted is beyond me.

[Green.Dot]

What makes you think military personnel would’ve been acted any differently? Here’s some bozo Australian soldiers deciding to blatantly break lockdown restrictions themselves. (https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12147812)

Probably the fact that they did hotel security successfully in other states.

Soldiers playing up outside of work ain’t a good look for defence, but when in uniform and under the direction of their superiors they will perform their duties diligently.

[currawong]

He does not have much to work with.

This is who is responsible for "the response to communicable disease incidents and emergencies".

https://youtu.be/0Ex6H-S5JIw

And for balance...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-05/victorian-deputy-chief-health-officer-captain-cook-tweet-cleared/12215532

[Bodie1]

What makes you think military personnel would’ve been acted any differently?

That was a serious question was it?

If Dan A locks people in their apartments to stop the virus spread he’s an authoritarian dictator

The 'Chairman Dan' comments are more about the nanny state he is trying to create in Victoria. Having lived in 3 states, Victoria is the Beijing of Australia.

[Stickshift3000]

I worked numerous shifts as a health practitioner in Vic’s hotel quarantine system. I witnessed numerous infection control shortcomings, and not just with the security guards as the media portrays. It should all come out in the inquiry.

I’m not partial to either side of politics; it wouldn’t have mattered which side was in charge. The same incompetent department staff would have overseen the under resourced and overworked staff at the front line.

[Ragnor]

I’m not partial to either side of politics; it wouldn’t have mattered which side was in charge. The same incompetent department staff would have overseen the under resourced and overworked staff at the front line.

Well no you’re wrong. both sides of politics have done very well in other states and territories.

Dan Andrews is the problem here.

[Square Bear]

Bodie 1

I'd say by Dr D's comments "What makes you think military personnel would’ve been acted any differently?" he simply see that a rent a cop on 20 bucks an hour, working Uber in his off shift is a just the same as one the would have to put his life on the line to protect those that make such idiotic statements......hard hat on for the vitriol or trolling that may follow.

[Bodie1]

Well no you’re wrong. both sides of politics have done very well in other states and territories.

Dan Andrews is the problem here.

Totally. 100%

[Bodie1]

I'd say by Dr D's comments "What makes you think military personnel would’ve been acted any differently?" he simply see that a rent a cop on 20 bucks an hour, working Uber in his off shift is a just the same as one the would have to put his life on the line to protect those that make such idiotic statements......hard hat on for the vitriol or trolling that may follow.

I'm hearin' ya! Let the outraged and the trolls go hard.

[Buster Hyman]

The same incompetent department staff would have overseen the under resourced and overworked staff at the front line.
Having worked in the VPS, I can assure you that incompetence is a prerequisite for career advancement!

[normanton]

I assume we can now rename the thread?

[Slezy9]

I assume we can now rename the thread?


May I suggest BNEA320 wrong again?

[SOPS]

Yes. It should be renamed... all borders will be closed UFN.

[DanV2]

May I suggest BNEA320 / TT738 wrong again?

Fixed it for you :)

[Green.Dot]

This looks to be getting a lot worse on a national economic scale before it will get better. Victoria was a key element in the growth of a domestic market but I think Dan The Union Man and his security guards have screwed everything including the pooch

[ozbiggles]

I think you will find the troops involved in that little party in Townsville will be regretting it for the rest of their careers and rightly so. The fines they got hit with will be the easy part. I see some of the troops doing this Hotel gig getting their morning briefings before heading out. They are left in no doubt what will happen if they stuff up.