All borders to reopen.

[dr dre]

I don’t think Mark McGowan as given a flying Fxxk what the Federal Government thinks anytime in the last 2 years. And if you think what is going on right now in the Eastern States is sustainable…. Enjoy.

Well it's coming to WA. Comments from the Chief Health Officer over the weekend (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-08/omicron-effect-wa-covid-modelling-out-of-date/100697198):

Dr Robertson said waiting to open the border until after other states' infection rates peaked wouldn't make a difference.

"[Post-peak] they'll still have large numbers of cases within their community, so the actual total cases in the community will still be widespread," he said.


He doesn't consider high case numbers in the east a reason for delaying reopening.

Similar comments from McGowan (https://thewest.com.au/news/coronavirus/border-watch-was-february-5-reopening-date-set-but-omicron-may-mean-more-restrictions-says-mark-mcgowan-c-4977546):

When announcing the date on Monday Mr McGowan said it was “locked in” barring “some unforeseen emergency or catastrophe which we can’t predict”.

Asked whether he would consider 25,000 daily cases in NSW a catastrophe, Mr McGowan said no.



Patients being prepared for at home treatment rather than in hospital treatment (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-06/wa-plan-for-covid-monitoring-at-home/100740726).

From the Government (https://www.wa.gov.au/government/announcements/wa-proceed-safe-transition-plan-february-5-2022) site:

Western Australia will embark on its Safe Transition Plan as announced last month from 12:01am on Saturday 5 February, 2022.

The locked-in transition date


It's coming. 25 days, 11 hours and 28 minutes until the "Hermit Kingdom" is over. Best mentally prepare for it now.

[De_flieger]

Well it's coming to WA
———
It's coming. 25 days, 11 hours and 28 minutes until the "Hermit Kingdom" is over. Best mentally prepare for it now.
It’ll never get in by road, that’s for sure. The locals will refuse to let it merge on at the freeway onramps, because the ability to merge is not the WA way, then it’ll be aggressively tailgated by a meth’d-up tradie in a lifted Ford Ranger with sand tyres until it flees. 😉

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

It’ll never get in by road, that’s for sure. The locals will refuse to let it merge on at the freeway onramps, because the ability to merge is not the WA way, then it’ll be aggressively tailgated by a meth’d-up tradie in a lifted Ford Ranger with sand tyres until it flees. 😉

…and even if it got in, it’d take forever to get to Perth because there’ll be 2 locals driving side-by-side, 30 km/h below the limit, and ignoring all the signs that say ‘keep left unless overtaking’.

[neville_nobody]

I don’t think Mark McGowan as given a flying Fxxk what the Federal Government thinks anytime in the last 2 years.

Until of course there is a Federal Labor Government when suddenly all his policies will change.

[SHVC]

Now that a AO tennis player was Visa cancellation was over turned. What does this mean for Australians that were not allowed back unvaccinated who may have had it?! This guy has been an anti vaxer from the start. This country is a dead set joke.

[ANCDU]

Now that a AO tennis player was Visa cancellation was over turned. What does this mean for Australians that were not allowed back unvaccinated who may have had it?! This guy has been an anti vaxer from the start. This country is a dead set joke.

From what I understand Australian citizens are currently allowed back in unvaccinated post infection with medical proof. The problem with the tennis player is that he was given advice by tennis Australia and the Victorian Government that only applied to Australian Citizens of which he is not. Even after his victory in his appeal he is technically still in Australia illegally.

[goodonyamate]

If you’re unvaccinated, isn’t there 14 days quarantine?

[Lead Balloon]

From what I understand Australian citizens are currently allowed back in unvaccinated post infection with medical proof. The problem with the tennis player is that he was given advice by tennis Australia and the Victorian Government that only applied to Australian Citizens of which he is not. Even after his victory in his appeal he is technically still in Australia illegally.How can that be, when he has a visa?

[ManillaChillaDilla]

This debacle illustrates well the last 2 years.

This once great country really is in a shambolic state these days.

MCD

[Lead Balloon]

And this year is going to be a bigger debacle than the previous two…

[WingNut60]

For the first time in my life the Australian Open may actually be entertaining

[Chronic Snoozer]

How can that be, when he has a visa?

Like this.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/australian-open/czech-tennis-player-renata-voracova-leaves-australia-over-visa/news-story/68cd48ca4ac815c3f700264f73f6fe1b

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-08/czech-tennis-player-renata-vor%C3%A1%C4%8Dov%C3%A1-deported-from-australia/100746080

If they deported this player I can't see how they cannot deport Djokovic, without knowing the exact details.

Either way it appears to be a gold standard cluster****

[ANCDU]

How can that be, when he has a visa?

it’s an e visa application, similar to the border applications here. If all the boxes are ticked correctly ( whether truthfully or not) an e visa is issued electronically and you show that on arrival to Australia with the supporting paperwork.

It specifies on the e visa paperwork and the website when you apply that it does not guarantee entry to Australia and that the final decision rests with Border Force on arrival.

[Lead Balloon]

...and the Border Force's 'final decision' on arrival was challenged and overturned by the Federal Circuit and Family Court of Australia.

It was reported in all the papers...

[unobtanium]

It specifies on the e visa paperwork and the website when you apply that it does not guarantee entry to Australia and that the final decision rests with Border Force on arrival.

the same ignorant, power tripping border force on TV who think speaking louder helps non english speaking people understand english?

[Buster Hyman]

Just illustrates that the Legislation wasn't tight enough & exemplifies the regular 'Policy on the run' that both sides of the floor have experience in. I didn't think he should've been allowed to enter but the Courts have decided so I hope they don't use discretionary powers here.

[SHVC]

I don’t think they will use discretionary powers after a court ruling, that will present more issues. However, it’s been reported he was not truthful on his declaration by not disclosing travel to Belgrade. He definitely has turned Australia in to the laughing stock of the world, as if we were not already. He had also outlined other issues that independents are jumping all over on the eve of an election which will create turmoil for the Libs. Our politicians really need to have a hard look at themself. Australia really needs to let go of these rules around COVID now, does seem unfair a person with the finances can challenge and win whilst normal Australians have had their lives up turned by these rules.

[t_cas]

It is rather straightforward.

He came to play a game.

He is not vaccinated.

He is not an Australian citizen.

I need to be vaccinated to have Coffee at my local cafe. I am an Australian citizen. I live here.

[C441]

...and the Border Force's 'final decision' on arrival was challenged and overturned by the Federal Circuit and Family Court of Australia.

Not exactly. Border Force's decision was not challenged, the manner in which it was applied was challenged successfully. Transcripts show they had told NDj they'd give him until 8:30am to contact someone to assist him with his request for a visa but then acted at 7:42 to deny him a visa. It was that action that the judge found to be outside the law and it is for that reason that the Immigration Minister can still revoke Djokovic's visa if he so wishes.

[Lead Balloon]

Not exactly?

Yes exactly.

And as each minute passes the Immigration Minister becomes less likely to pretend to be big and bwave.

[galdian]

...and appears Border Force are looking into whether answer(s) he made in his visa application were misleading or dishonest.

Make it very interesting if the visa was granted based on such responses.

I'd call it 30 all at the moment.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Interesting that he just happened to get the required infection about a couple of weeks before having to travel to Melbourne. What was his plan if he didn't get infected? After all, he'd already been issued the visa by then.

[MickG0105]

Interesting that he just happened to get the required infection about a couple of weeks before having to travel to Melbourne. What was his plan if he didn't get infected? After all, he'd already been issued the visa by then.
Interesting timeline and actions taken by the fellow, that's for sure. Apparently tested positive on 16 December, then tested negative six days later on the 22nd, and appears to have not taken any precautions against infecting others between the two tests.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Meanwhile....Back At The Ranch.......

WA set to pull the curtin down - again - on Thursday 13th....(unlucky for some...) according to the latest from the 'usual suspect' news sources.....
(Apols to Casablanca)

Feb 5th looking a bit 'sus'..??
No doubt, more to follow....

Cheeerrrsss...

[Transition Layer]

Meanwhile....Back At The Ranch.......

WA set to pull the curtin down - again - on Thursday 13th....(unlucky for some...) according to the latest from the 'usual suspect' news sources.....
(Apols to Casablanca)

Feb 5th looking a bit 'sus'..??
No doubt, more to follow....

Cheeerrrsss...
‘Curtin’ as in one of our finest PMs? (A West Australian as well). Or are you suggesting some kind of lockdown?

[Chronic Snoozer]

‘Curtin’ as in one of our finest PMs? (A West Australian as well). Or are you suggesting some kind of lockdown?

I think it's a blanket lockdown.

[Icarus2001]

Griffo how can “they” pull the curtain down anymore? Locked out to all other jurisdictions with a 14 day quarantine.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Not quite 'all' Mr I.,

From the WA Gov site......
'The N.T. will transition from 'high risk' to 'extreme risk' under W.A.'s controlled border from 12.01am Thurs 13th Jan 2022'

The NT has been open until this but with restrictions, e.g. 'Approved Traveller' with a G2G Pass.
Under 'Extreme Risk' the list of 'approved travellers' is significantly reduced.......is what the site says.

'Google' WA Lockdown news.......for more detail.

See yas all.......sometime.......

[Transition Layer]

Lockdown different to border closures Griffo, think you’re getting a bit confused with the terminology.

The “island within an island” is once more and SOPS is sitting at home loving life, feeling safe! :yuk:

[SOPS]

Lockdown different to border closures Griffo, think you’re getting a bit confused with the terminology.

The “island within an island” is once more and SOPS is sitting at home loving life, feeling safe! :yuk:

All good here.. thanks Transition 👍

[goodonyamate]

Lockdown different to border closures Griffo, think you’re getting a bit confused with the terminology.

The “island within an island” is once more and SOPS is sitting at home loving life, feeling safe! :yuk:


for another few weeks. Then he’ll be on here whinging about ‘the east’ and how selfish we all are. WA is lining up to be the biggest basket case of all.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hey Mr. TL,

I didn't say WA was 'in lockdown'.......What I did say was that if you want more details, then 'Google WA Lockdown news'......THAT is the heading I used to get to the site, THAT is all.... (Lurve your current address by the way...)
Aussies from other states can still get here - SUBJECT TO the various conditions / quarantine / testing.
"Under the 'extreme risk' category, the list of approved travellers is significantly reduced, and includes.......It then goes on

Hey Mr G.,
Re 'WA is lining up to be the biggest basket case of all'....
You might well be correct.

A 'popular' opinion over here is that the WA Gummint has allowed the WA Health System to deteriorate so far, that it is now incapable of being able to address / accommodate the number of patients expected should this virus 'get out of hand'.
Our hospitals simply could not cope. We don't have sufficient Nursing Staff either. Ambulance 'ramping' is at an all time high without the virus....
That is a 'popular' opinion.
Cheers

[Swanrider]

"...a popular opinion"... really :ugh: Are you serious?
What rock have you been hiding under not to see the bleeding obvious for the past three years in Perth?
It's cold hard FACT, not opinion and I see it daily, first hand! Multiple ambulances lined up outside the hospitals with sick pax waiting on board, even before the day has started.
It's no joke when multiple Hospitals call their Code Blue or Yellows even without any Covid issues.
A huge red flag indicating blatant long-term neglect, underfunding and mismanagement by the megalomaniac "Sneakers" McClown Govt, who is sitting a huge pile of gold coins. "Emporer with no clothes..."?
His neglect of the aviation industry there is the same.
TripleM Perth Tuesday morning talk back with Baz Zemplas had 4 out of the 5 callers saying open the border immediately, as it's killed businesses, families, Ag & crops (the list goes on).
Put simply, WA with just 2.4 million people is not self-sustaining. It requires industry, labour, cash & goods from interstate and overseas for the whole economy to survive. The last two years it's only been treading water, with only the public sector (Govt/Councils etc) being happy as Larry with their regular untouched incomes. It's been a private sector pandemic as many a business has shut shop for good. Just look around the city at all the vacant shops for lease. Sure, nowhere near as bad as Melbourne but still the same effect.
A wise man mentioned to me last week that this "pandemic" is not one about covid now but one about people's IQ. :D

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

All of 'that' is a 'popular opinion' Mr S

I have neither the resources nor the time to answer your emotive response - I would rather just deal with the facts.
Nor am I able to actually CHANGE any of the above.

The facts ARE, as you so elequently describe.....

Unfortunately, I am NOT able to actually CHANGE any of the above, being just ONE of 'the great unwashed'.

I have pointed out that the hospitals are 'up to their armpits' - and YOU have verified that.

I did not even venture into the 'economics' of WA food supplies being supported by the 'Eastern States', as those various companies have chosen, a looong time ago, to close processing facilities in WA to 'SAVE $'s', and increase their profit margins.
Just the same as various 'industries' purchasing everything from clothing to building supplies etc etc from....CHINA??
NOT under my CONTROL
In MY 'younger days', almost EVERYTHING was 'Made in Australia'. But it cost.......That means it was 'cheaper' to import 'stuff' from 'overseas'.
Unfortunately, ALL of those 'domestic factories' have CLOSED. You didn't work in the Motor Vehicle industry by any chance??
No difference.
Please feel free to 'vent ya spleen' on them.
Happy New Year.

Perhaps you can assist in this matter...???

I'll leave YOU to 'read between the lines'......
Ta Ta

[Derfred]

If a public hospital doesn’t have ambulances ramped and an 18 month waiting list for surgery, it is considered “over-resourced”.

A bit like an airline - if it’s not constantly running 40 minutes late then the turnaround times are too generous and the aircraft are “under-utilised”.

Governments like to waste money on everything other than what is actually important to the population - like education, health, and a viable manufacturing industry.

Obviously a lack of quality health-care staff wouldn’t have anything to do with pay and conditions, would it?

[Shot Nancy]

Dear SR and EFSOG,
I see you guys as being in agreement,
Love Shot.

[SOPS]

In my younger days… things were made in Australia or England. My mother ( now 86) before I was born, worked at a company that made boxes to put ( amongst other things) .. washing machines. And guess what???… it was next door to the Simpson washing machine factory in Sydney.

[Derfred]

And our Govt, faced with the prospect of spending maybe $1B/year for maintaining an automotive manufacturing industry in the country, chose to spend $100B during covid just to try to keep the economy ticking. I’d rather my son get an apprenticeship at Holden.

[cessnapete]

Griffo how can “they” pull the curtain down anymore? Locked out to all other jurisdictions with a 14 day quarantine.



Omicron proving a non event to the fully vaccinated here in UK. Mandatory isolation being cut to 5 days next week.

[Icarus2001]

Yes but our media keep up their tactic of focussing on total case numbers. Funny they never mention each day how many people have fully recovered from their infection. I guess that 98.5% of people infected is not newsworthy.
As long as they keep playing that game then people will be fearful, which is their aim. People are missing the point, we will all get it.

SOPS I see Facebook groups with a petition calling for McGowan to keep the border closed in WA until it is “safe” to open. When do you think that will be? If the rest of the country has Covid in varying levels then WA could never open up.

[dr dre]

SOPS I see Facebook groups with a petition calling for McGowan to keep the border closed in WA until it is “safe” to open. When do you think that will be? If the rest of the country has Covid in varying levels then WA could never open up.

Does it relate to this change.org petition (https://www.change.org/p/mark-mcgowan-don-t-open-wa-s-borders-until-it-is-safe)? In that case don't worry, it only has 28,000 signatures, or 1% of the state's population. The one calling for borders to remain closed in vaccine free 2020 attracted 10x as much support (https://www.change.org/p/scott-morrison-and-clive-palmer-support-mark-mcgowan-to-keep-west-australian-border-closed). And apart from a few extremist epidemiologists there's no one of substance backing this petition, even the AMA toned down their calls (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-11/covid-divide-widens-in-wa-ahead-of-planned-reopening/100747722) for borders remaining closed recently. The Chambers of Minerals and Energy, and Commerce and Industry support reopening and that's pretty much all that matters.

And if governments did what every petition called for them to do then we'd have no "religious discrimination" bill (https://www.change.org/p/religious-discrimination-bill-stop-the-coalition-s-handmaid-s-tale-bill?source_location=discover_feed) about to be enacted and we'd have a Royal Commission into Murdoch media (https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/nov/03/kevin-rudd-petition-seeking-royal-commission-into-murdoch-media-nears-500000-signatures).

[Chad Gates]

Even Basil is saying we must open up now. There doesn’t seem to be any movement from MM on the date. Not yet anyway. Remember everyone thought Bill Shorten would be PM.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Does it relate to this change.org petition (https://www.change.org/p/mark-mcgowan-don-t-open-wa-s-borders-until-it-is-safe)? In that case don't worry, it only has 28,000 signatures, or 1% of the state's population. The one calling for borders to remain closed in vaccine free 2020 attracted 10x as much support (https://www.change.org/p/scott-morrison-and-clive-palmer-support-mark-mcgowan-to-keep-west-australian-border-closed). And apart from a few extremist epidemiologists there's no one of substance backing this petition, even the AMA toned down their calls (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-11/covid-divide-widens-in-wa-ahead-of-planned-reopening/100747722) for borders remaining closed recently. The Chambers of Minerals and Energy, and Commerce and Industry support reopening and that's pretty much all that matters.

And if governments did what every petition called for them to do then we'd have no "religious discrimination" bill (https://www.change.org/p/religious-discrimination-bill-stop-the-coalition-s-handmaid-s-tale-bill?source_location=discover_feed) about to be enacted and we'd have a Royal Commission into Murdoch media (https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/nov/03/kevin-rudd-petition-seeking-royal-commission-into-murdoch-media-nears-500000-signatures).

To be fair there are some good arguments in that petition. The other petition is over a year old so it stands to reason it has more signatures and was done at a time when there wasn't widespread vaccination, so hardly apples and apples. I expect the AMA and industry are all still keeping their powder dry to see what happens in the next fortnight.

[WingNut60]

Might want to be careful as it could implode on him when WA folk see everyone else going to Bali but they are still locked in. Since there is no State election due the voters may take it out on the Federal Labor.

SMART TRAVELLER - INDONESIA BULLETIN You must meet COVID-19 testing requirements and quarantine on arrival at a hotel for 7 days. If you test positive for COVID-19 on arrival or on day 6 of quarantine, you will be transferred to a hospital for treatment at your own expense. All possible and confirmed cases of the COVID-19 Omicron variant, including close contacts such as accompanying family members, must then isolate for 10 days at a hospital. This may be at significant personal expense. Contact your travel provider for up-to-date details.

It's a wonder there is any Covid in NSW..... what with everyone being on holidays up in Bali

[nivsy]

It's a wonder there is any Covid in NSW..... what with everyone being on holidays up in Bali
Yes absolutely... the world does not circulate around Bali....I mean who would even want to be there at the moment?

[SOPS]

Out of interest …how many flights a day are operating from the Eastern States to Bali at the moment?

[Jester64]

Yes absolutely... the world does not circulate around Bali....I mean who would even want to be there at the moment?

Why would someone not want to be in Bali at this current time?

[chookcooker]

Why would someone not want to be in Bali at this current time?
you might catch a cold

[nivsy]

Why would someone not want to be in Bali at this current time?
A mandatory 7x24 hours quarantine is set for fully vaccinated travellers.....I believe this is still valid?

[Jester64]

A mandatory 7x24 hours quarantine is set for fully vaccinated travellers.....I believe this is still valid?

thanks you are correct. I thought they were quarantine free for fully vaccinated

[nonsense]

Yes but our media keep up their tactic of focussing on total case numbers. Funny they never mention each day how many people have fully recovered from their infection.

Is this what you're looking for?



https://covidlive.com.au/report/active-per-population



https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/983x593/untitled_408ae6fc7990742f63e79b492c392efc1aa7d168.png

[Icarus2001]

Not really, how many people have RECOVERED from the infection. Never see it reported.

[Cunning_Stunt]

Yes they are. If you check the COVID live website , they are listed day by day. Just scroll down the page for each state.

[Icarus2001]

I don’t think you understand my point.
Yes I can go and research it and find the numbers myself but I am saying that our ever helpful media only REPORT total cases, deaths, hospitalisations etc
They do not offer the number of recoveries.
Their focus is only on the doom and gloom and how bad it all is.
Their barely disguised glee when the new terrifying Omicron variant arrived. Unfortunately it did not play their game as it is less damaging than Delta. Hardly ever see that mentioned do you?

[MickG0105]

... but I am saying that our ever helpful media only REPORT total cases, deaths, hospitalisations etc
They do not offer the number of recoveries.
Their focus is only on the doom and gloom and how bad it all is.
​​​​​​...

When has it ever been any different for pretty much anything else? The news media don't cover ordinary events. The only time that the media covers survivors is where the act of survival was extraordinary ... Man fights off shark. Baby survives plane crash. That sort of thing.


...
Their barely disguised glee when the new terrifying Omicron variant arrived. Unfortunately it did not play their game as it is less damaging than Delta. Hardly ever see that mentioned do you?
The reporting that Omicron is less severe than Delta is there if you look.

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/health/omicron-five-times-less-severe-than-delta/news-story/d9cf06005369222d94c89dd0db654d9d
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/omicron-up-to-70-per-cent-less-likely-to-cause-hospitalisation-than-delta-research-suggests-c-5070312
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-23/early-studies-suggest-omicron-hospital-risk-less-than-delta/100722338
https://thewest.com.au/news/coronavirus/studies-indicate-omicron-milder-than-delta-c-5066060
https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2022/01/01/omicron-causes-a-less-severe-illness-than-earlier-variants
https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/health/new-studies-reveal-why-omicron-variant-is-less-severe/news-story/6f9b7a17359ecc62775b19da975f2f36
https://www.cnet.com/health/medical/new-data-shows-omicron-causes-less-severe-disease-than-delta-leads-to-fewer-hospitalizations/

[cLeArIcE]

I don’t think you understand my point.
Yes I can go and research it and find the numbers myself but I am saying that our ever helpful media only REPORT total cases, deaths, hospitalisations etc
They do not offer the number of recoveries.
Their focus is only on the doom and gloom and how bad it all is.
Their barely disguised glee when the new terrifying Omicron variant arrived. Unfortunately it did not play their game as it is less damaging than Delta. Hardly ever see that mentioned do you?
When we read an article about aviation, we all react with laughter at how little the media know about aviation, can't even get basic facts correct etc. If you apply the same rule to everything that you read, you won't be disappointed.
My biggest pet hate is opinion articles... Your a journalist, your a no body. Unless your opinion is about journalism, what would I care about your opinion on health, the economy Or aviation etc.

[Transition Layer]

Out of interest …how many flights a day are operating from the Eastern States to Bali at the moment?
None that I’m aware of due to afore mentioned quarantine restrictions into Bali.
However Jetstar has re-commenced flights to Phuket from Sydney and Melbourne, arguably a much better place to visit anyway.

[cbradio]

None that I’m aware of due to afore mentioned quarantine restrictions into Bali.
However Jetstar has re-commenced flights to Phuket from Sydney and Melbourne, arguably a much better place to visit anyway.

No international flights from anywhere into Bali. Its set up but no one flying direct there. Pretty much all quarantine done in Jakarta (a few in Manado and Surabaya.)

[Angle of Attack]

2 years in we are still whinging, what a cluster, We might achieve quarantine free travel after 2 years lol, forget WA though they are long gong.

[SHVC]

QF international could run into issues with their U.S flights. I didn’t even know the UK had a “avoid travel” to Australia. US have just upgraded their travel advice for their citizens to avoid travel to Australia. This is a long way from over I guess.

[Consol]

QF international could run into issues with their U.S flights. I didn’t even know the UK had a “avoid travel” to Australia. US have just upgraded their travel advice for their citizens to avoid travel to Australia. This is a long way from over I guess.
Just about every country has a warning about every other country and travel insurance probably won't cover you against C19 as a result. There needs to be a significant step back in view of very reduced risks.

[WingNut60]

Just about every country has a warning about every other country and travel insurance probably won't cover you against C19 as a result. There needs to be a significant step back in view of very reduced risks.
Insurance companies take a step back from an opportunity to not pay out?
Good luck with that.

[Xeptu]

Is it time to review where we are at. Here in South Australia we opened the border on the understanding that we are all vaxxed, we are all going to be infected, few of us will require hospitalisation and very few will die. What we didn't expect is that we will still require testing and isolation if you are infected or suspect you may be infected.
The consequence of that is that business is seriously nobbled worse than previous restrictions when borders were closed. Some schools not reopening, serious supply chain disruption at transport and production level. While I can't speak for the state, I am of the view that if we knew this would be the outcome we would never have supported opening the borders.
West Australians should know what to expect when they open their borders, I wouldn't judge if they didn't.

[43Inches]

Nothing is new, the US and UK have been through the exact same thing, and still going through it. Shops and businesses in the high spread areas are closed and supply chains and maintenance all reduced due to sickness. I think the last data out had 1/3rd of businesses in affected areas still closed to avoid contracting covid/staff shortages. The only difference is our death toll is starting from a much lower base, and we're in a much better position fiscally. Like it or not, Australia is still much better off than much of the world, until now anyway.

[Xeptu]

Almost half our staff are required to isolate for the next 10 days, half of them don't even know if they are actually infected. The other half of our staff can't function without them, we are about to close the doors, we'll take orders but can't provide a supply date. How long will that be acceptable.

[43Inches]

I agree the forced isolation is a dogs breakfast, but the other option is your workforce all gets sick at once. Maybe that's ok as it gets it over and done with, but how long does each one stay sick, and 'what ifs' the length of a piece of string. I'm hearing a lot of people taking sick leave from being worked off their feet due to shortages in various workplaces, which will only add to the problems.

The problems in construction are ridiculous, with numerous trades from different companies all working in confined spaces, it only takes one idiot to come to work sick and a schedule for several worksites and multiple companies is sent backwards a week or two.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

New Info....
Announced at 1930 WST, CH 7, WA Premier;

Because of the effects of the 'Omicron' version of the virus, - As at 5th Feb., the 'hard borders' will remain but with more focus on compassionate grounds.

See the WA Gov site for more details.
T'ain't borders 'open' as expected...as yet......
That is all...for now.

p.s. I gotta add, when asked by a 'journo' if WA's Health System situation has anything to do with this decision, Mr Premier said something like, no, our WA Health System
is healthy and strong...or words to that effect.

Has anybody else noticed a resemblance to the character 'Frank Burns' from 'M*A*S*H*....when these claims are made....??
Maybe its just moi.......

[dr dre]

Because of the effects of the 'Omicron' version of the virus, - As at 5th Feb., the 'hard borders' will remain but with more focus on compassionate grounds.

But if you get to come in you have to isolate, as do all others in that household. What a joke. There's no way they can police that.

Actually it's probably just a way to keep Covid slowly spreading out into the community so eventually he can reopen but not have to have it seem as if a fixed decision of his was the cause, ie passing the buck.

He can't even claim WA is better than anywhere else because of the mask mandates and event restrictions.

[aussieflyboy]

I look forward to when McClown has to fly commercially somewhere, I imagine a glass of red wine will accidentally be spilled on him 😝

[airdualbleedfault]

. Has anybody else noticed a resemblance to the character 'Frank Burns' from 'M*A*S*H*....when these claims are made....??
Maybe its just moi.......

Nope, it's not just you

[SOPS]

Well it's coming to WA. Comments from the Chief Health Officer over the weekend (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-08/omicron-effect-wa-covid-modelling-out-of-date/100697198):



He doesn't consider high case numbers in the east a reason for delaying reopening.

Similar comments from McGowan (https://thewest.com.au/news/coronavirus/border-watch-was-february-5-reopening-date-set-but-omicron-may-mean-more-restrictions-says-mark-mcgowan-c-4977546):



Patients being prepared for at home treatment rather than in hospital treatment (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-06/wa-plan-for-covid-monitoring-at-home/100740726).

From the Government (https://www.wa.gov.au/government/announcements/wa-proceed-safe-transition-plan-february-5-2022) site:



It's coming. 25 days, 11 hours and 28 minutes until the "Hermit Kingdom" is over. Best mentally prepare for it now.

Really? Things seemed to have changed.

[Jester64]

Really? Things seemed to have changed.

Apparently only of this morning, if we are to believe anything McGowan says. What a sad night for our federation.

[SOPS]

Apparently only of this morning, if we are to believe anything McGowan says. What a sad night for our federation.

According to late night media reports here.. things changed about 4pm yesterday when the latest numbers of deaths came out from the Eastern States. An a Emergency Meeting was called.. and plans started to change.

[Jester64]

According to late night media reports here.. things changed about 4pm yesterday when the latest numbers of deaths came out from the Eastern States. An a Emergency Meeting was called.. and plans started to change.

Exactly why the covid death definition needs to be redefined

[SOPS]

But if you get to come in you have to isolate, as do all others in that household. What a joke. There's no way they can police that.

Actually it's probably just a way to keep Covid slowly spreading out into the community so eventually he can reopen but not have to have it seem as if a fixed decision of his was the cause, ie passing the buck.

He can't even claim WA is better than anywhere else because of the mask mandates and event restrictions.

I hate to tell you this … they can police that. My next door neighbour’s son and family got permission to come and see her on compassionate grounds ( my neighbour is 90) from Queensland. They arrived a week ago. They have been allowed to quarantine with my neighbour, with her, in her home. The Police arrive at random times, twice a day, every day, to check they are all home. So yes, they can police it.

[Ladloy]

Exactly why the covid death definition needs to be redefined
Yeah move those goalposts

[Lead Balloon]

They did it with the definition of 'close contact'...

[dr dre]

I hate to tell you this … they can police that. My next door neighbour’s son and family got permission to come and see her on compassionate grounds ( my neighbour is 90) from Queensland. They arrived a week ago. They have been allowed to quarantine with my neighbour, with her, in her home. The Police arrive at random times, twice a day, every day, to check they are all home. So yes, they can police it.

He indicated more will be coming in under compassionate exemptions. More police needed to check on them. When in isolation those in the same household will have to isolate too. Like that's going to happen. Increased arrivals = increased chances of spread. The hotel quarantine system was leaky enough.

So it seems like he wants more chances of community breakouts whilst also appearing to be tough, so he doesn't have to take responsibility for allowing large numbers of cases in. He doesn't want to have put his name to a date to avoid any backlash, so just let them seep in.

If Airlines had any guts they'd announce a snap end to all flights into WA, so none of those compassionate arrivals can actually get in anyway. Just keep one per day for essential freight only, no passengers.
They could also announce a grounding of FIFO flights, using the excuse of crews being distracted. Now THAT would force a change in minutes.

If Morrison had any guts (he doesn't) he'd just stop all those extra booster shots coming into the state, saying if WA won't follow the national plan they can fund their own vaccines. But when you have a failed marketing manager as PM who only knows spin you never get substance or action.

[Potsie Weber]

I hate to tell you this … they can police that. My next door neighbour’s son and family got permission to come and see her on compassionate grounds ( my neighbour is 90) from Queensland. They arrived a week ago. They have been allowed to quarantine with my neighbour, with her, in her home. The Police arrive at random times, twice a day, every day, to check they are all home. So yes, they can police it.

Cracking waste of police resources, grilling every person arriving into WA and going house to house checking on isolations. Meanwhile, assaults are up 14% on 5yr average and domestic violence up 19%.

https://www.police.wa.gov.au/crime/crimestatistics#/

[Ladloy]

They did it with the definition of 'close contact'...
Sure did, in line with the US and UK, backed by big business and not by the scientific community. The states agreed to the new definition too, so it's not an argument of bipartisanship. Why we would follow suit with those countries is beyond me.

Airports are now empty, supermarket shelves are empty, casual workers throughout the country are on LWOP and now we have the trucking industry and Scomo asking for child forkies. What a timeline.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

If Airlines had any guts they'd announce a snap end to all flights into WA, so none of those compassionate arrivals can actually get in anyway. Just keep one per day for essential freight only, no passengers.

Why even have the one freight flight per day? If McGowan and his supporters want to remain cut off from the rest of Australia (while constantly sneering at what’s happening in other states), then they can remain cut off. Properly.

[PoppaJo]

If Airlines had any guts they'd announce a snap end to all flights into WA, so none of those compassionate arrivals can actually get in anyway. Just keep one per day for essential freight only, no passengers.

.
They pretty much already have. Jetstar has pulled out for the moment, probably won’t return for a few months. VA and QF only have one flight a day over to the East Coast.

[vne165]

So it seems like he wants more chances of community breakouts whilst also appearing to be tough, so he doesn't have to take responsibility for allowing large numbers of cases in. He doesn't want to have put his name to a date to avoid any backlash, so just let them seep in.

Nailed it Dre.
What a spineless twerp he is.

[tossbag]

Does anybody really care? Who's going to WA anytime soon? I think it is time for people to move on from WA and whatever it is they want to do. So long as the FEDS are still getting the taxes they are owed out of the joint, all good.

[ExtraShot]

Nailed it Dre.
What a spineless twerp he is.

Yep. Dre is on the money. It’s exactly what he’s doing.

In the mean time, what a stunning waste of police resources to keep tabs on all those evil G2G holders, while crime everywhere else here runs rampant.

And still no published plan to fix the hospital mess. Two years of absolute Covid free luxury to get us ready and he completely wasted it. What an utter disgrace.

[mostlytossas]

Hate to rain on your parade but here in SA word on the street is the majority of the population wishes SA would do the same though probably too late now. Since the borders were opened the city is deserted, traders are complaining about no customers and/or staff as too many are off due to being a close contact. Flights are being cancelled and shops closed because of the above. Consensus now is it is worse than when we had borders closed and brief lock downs to control it. Phrase often used is that this has back fired on the State and Federal government and big business that pushed the "let it rip " scenario in the first place. Just saying.

[Ladloy]

Hate to rain on your parade but here in SA word on the street is the majority of the population wishes SA would do the same though probably too late now. Since the borders were opened the city is deserted, traders are complaining about no customers and/or staff as too many are off due to being a close contact. Flights are being cancelled and shops closed because of the above. Consensus now is it is worse than when we had borders closed and brief lock downs to control it. Phrase often used is that this has back fired on the State and Federal government and big business that pushed the "let it rip " scenario in the first place. Just saying.
Same in Tasmania which has an economy built on tourism. Locals are furious.

[Lead Balloon]

A big problem in SA - I've back and forward many times in the last few years - is that the 'locals' were lulled by the low infection numbers into going lax on the mitigation strategies. If I had a buck for each time I saw someone with his or her nose hanging out of the top of a mask, failure by a business to insist on check in and no social distancing during my most recent visit, I'd be very rich. A complete change from the previous visit.

The East coast has just about reached the end of the beginning of the practical long-term response to the pandemic. SA will catch up in the next couple of months. Standby for many more deaths.

The sovereign nation of WA? Who knows. I suppose it will depend on if and when the money runs out.

[travelator]

The problem is not the virus, it’s the ridiculous arbitrary isolation requirements. I caught it, was sick enough to have one day off work. But no, I had to take a week off, as did my wife. What should have been a single day loss of productivity became 10, multiple this by 100,000 people per day and it’s no wonder the country is coming apart at the seams.

All for a deadly killer virus that was subdued by a couple of Panadol.

[vne165]

McGowan has crab-walked away from a decision that has been set in stone for months. Hundreds of thousands of individuals and tens of thousands of businesses have planned around this hard date.
He has done this because either;
- He knows the virus is in the community and cannot be stopped. So he doesn't want to be blamed for this due to open borders (The Dre theorem), or
- He is deluded into thinking he can control it and will shortly return the good burghers of WA (who have done everything asked of them and more) back into lockdown, as open borders would have precluded this.

Either option is cynical, politically expedient and a disgrace.
There is white-hot seething anger amongst the many folks I engage with in WA.

You cannot hold a compact of the sort he did, imploring all that was needed was to meet a vaccination rate threshold, and then renege without consequence.
His electoral goose is cooked I suspect and hope.

The remainder of the country has lanced the boil, as unpleasant as that is in the short term.
WA must lance it too, eventually. The can cannot be kicked down the road forever.

[ChrisJ800]

Im in Tassie. At least before the border opening we locals were able to go to restaurants and pubs and do some support of local tourism. Now since the 'Opening' every time you step outside you are conducting a risk assessment on when you will catch covid or be a close contact needing a personal lockdown. Ive had enough and heading to Philippines next month. At least there they have built free quarantine facilities designed with fresh air in mind and lots of outside walking around by inmates. Better than being locked into a hotel room where you cant open windows.

[BuzzBox]

The sovereign nation of WA? Who knows. I suppose it will depend on if and when the money runs out.

What money would that be?

[Clare Prop]

The problem is not the virus, it’s the ridiculous arbitrary isolation requirements. I caught it, was sick enough to have one day off work. But no, I had to take a week off, as did my wife. What should have been a single day loss of productivity became 10, multiple this by 100,000 people per day and it’s no wonder the country is coming apart at the seams.

All for a deadly killer virus that was subdued by a couple of Panadol.

Absolute lunacy, 12 staff from Fiona Stanley hospital in 14 days iso because a positive guy went to the ED.
Good luck finding panadol, I can only function with osteoarthritis with Neurofen, unable to find either on the shelves because of people panic buying. Not fun trying to get around at the moment.
However am glad he is taking a more gradual approach to opening the borders for now because once Pandora's box is opened that's it.
If Gladys and her successor hadn't made such a mess of things perhaps we wouldn't be in this situation now.

[vne165]

It's already been opened Clare. Too late.

[SOPS]

McGowan has crab-walked away from a decision that has been set in stone for months. Hundreds of thousands of individuals and tens of thousands of businesses have planned around this hard date.
He has done this because either;
- He knows the virus is in the community and cannot be stopped. So he doesn't want to be blamed for this due to open borders (The Dre theorem), or
- He is deluded into thinking he can control it and will shortly return the good burghers of WA (who have done everything asked of them and more) back into lockdown, as open borders would have precluded this.

Either option is cynical, politically expedient and a disgrace.
There is white-hot seething anger amongst the many folks I engage with in WA.

You cannot hold a compact of the sort he did, imploring all that was needed was to meet a vaccination rate threshold, and then renege without consequence.
His electoral goose is cooked I suspect and hope.

The remainder of the country has lanced the boil, as unpleasant as that is in the short term.
WA must lance it too, eventually. The can cannot be kicked down the road forever.

I would say it’s very polarising. Because lots of people I engage with think it’s a great plan to stay shut.. while others hate it. I don’t know of anyone ‘sitting on the fence”.

[tossbag]

If Gladys and her successor hadn't made such a mess of things perhaps we wouldn't be in this situation now.

What mess would that be?

Living in lala land, McGowan has done a great job convincing you all that you're Peter Pan and can live forever. Hate to break it to you, but humans die. Humans may even die from a respiratory virus when they have one or several co-morbidities, which are the overwhelming majority of deaths.

In NSW, VIC and now QLD you can choose to live on your feet or die on your knees.

It is possible to avoid the virus by choosing not to go out to high risk venues or areas, washing your hands, wearing a mask, being considerate. It's great to have a choice.

Lala land is convinced it is chaos on the East Coast, you are getting filtered news, news that picks and chooses the narrative. The facts are rare. There is no chaos here, you can travel interstate, overseas. Apart from the ridiculous remnants of the fear campaign, life is pretty good. The East has accepted that you can't eliminate a virus, the west believes in fairytales.

[Torukmacto]

Im in Tassie. At least before the border opening we locals were able to go to restaurants and pubs and do some support of local tourism. Now since the 'Opening' every time you step outside you are conducting a risk assessment on when you will catch covid or be a close contact needing a personal lockdown. Ive had enough and heading to Philippines next month. At least there they have built free quarantine facilities designed with fresh air in mind and lots of outside walking around by inmates. Better than being locked into a hotel room where you cant open windows.

Im living in Philippines , just getting over covid ( no big deal ) , omnicron is part of life , people moving around , life is good , I don’t listen to news so no idea what politicians are saying . Good luck getting here .

[logansi]

What a lot of people who get upseat about the current situation in QLD, SA, Tassie don't seem to understand is that the same thing will happen when WA opens up, that could be today, it could be February 5th or it could be July. Omicron will rip through WA like the Eastern states at some point in time. Wouldn't it be better for the nation if we all did it together?

[Angle of Attack]

It’s obviously a fairly even split about 50/50 on the opinion of people in WA, either very happy to stay closed or completely against it.
WA provides only 15% of National GDP and if their borders stay closed it’s still a win for the Nation as royalties go to the whole country as well.
They should just keep it closed and then 50% will be happy and it’s tough for the other 50% but just start working on voting him out. McGowan was just talking now and he portraying that it is some type dystopian hell anywhere east WA. I just got back from the States, took the kids to Disneyland,
was a great trip, and get news that WA has done this, they need to get out into the world and see their policy is really only being pursued in China and Hong Kong. Feel sorry for the families that still can’t reunite. I see there will be more exemptions on Compassionate grounds, exemption equal a ton of red tape if anyone has had anything to do with travel to WA the last 2 years. QF should just give up on the Perth -London flights from now on, if any new variant comes along it will be back to the closing credits of Get Smart, all the doors again will close to WA.

[Xeptu]

The situation is diabolical. We are unable to operate, not only because of our own staff isolation requirement, but because of everyone else's. Businesses are falling over like a row of dominoes. If the 10 day isolation requirement hasn't been lifted by the end of this month, we have no choice but to place ourselves in a state of voluntary lockdown.

To those in WA, keep your borders shut, because this situation is worse than any virus.

[Lead Balloon]

WA provides only 15% of National GDP and if their borders stay closed it’s still a win for the Nation as royalties go to the whole country as well.Are you sure that royalties charged on e.g. mining outputs in WA go anywhere other than into the WA government's pocket? Company tax and other taxes are a different matter.

[SandyPalms]

I think all Perth based QF flight crew (both cabin and pilots) should start assessing which of the other bases they would be prepared to live in. Alan is pissed. LHR is toast, and there won’t be any expansion.

[Transition Layer]

I think all Perth based QF flight crew (both cabin and pilots) should start assessing which of the other bases they would be prepared to live in. Alan is pissed. LHR is toast, and there won’t be any expansion.
Speculation or source? (not disagreeing with you…I think Perth long haul bases are on thin ice.)
At least SOPS is happy in retirement

[BuzzBox]

Speculation or source? (not disagreeing with you…I think Perth long haul bases are on thin ice.)
At least SOPS is happy in retirement

McGowan's critics have been quite vocal about their displeasure, but a lot of people are quietly pleased about the decision.

[SandyPalms]

Speculation or source? (not disagreeing with you…I think Perth long haul bases are on thin ice.)
At least SOPS is happy in retirement

Just my own speculation. 787/A330 people especially, 737 less so, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a “base balancing” as a sort of amnesty.

[Chad Gates]

McGowan's critics have been quite vocal about their displeasure, but a lot of people are quietly pleased about the decision.

I feel that MM would have been devastated by the front page of the West Australian today. It looks like he may have lost their support.

[BuzzBox]

I feel that MM would have been devastated by the front page of the West Australian today. It looks like he may have lost their support.

Yes, it's interesting how they've done a complete 180 on him, going from fawning obsequiousness to baying for his blood. Mind you, I'm not sure he cares.

[dr dre]

Speculation or source? (not disagreeing with you…I think Perth long haul bases are on thin ice.)
At least SOPS is happy in retirement

Well here's the text from the press release:
Timing to reinstate Qantas’ Perth-London route, which is currently operating via Darwin and was due to return to Western Australia in late March 2022, is under review.
Note the use of language. "Timing to reinstate". Trying to extract a glimmer of hope out of a very negative day, this would indicate they eventually want to return. If they wanted to pressure the WA government they could've use language like "the viability or long term future of the Perth London route is under review". A browse of the Australian Frequent Flyers Forum shows the Darwin stopover isn't particularly popular, if it were to be a long term option they would need extensive terminal and lounge upgrades which may not even be possible from the space available. They'd probably use SIN instead.

We know just yesterday they have been in recent talks over PER-JNB. They returned to PER-LHR as soon as the aborted opening date was confirmed, and soon after announced PER-FCO. So no secret they see money to be made out of Perth, and unlike pilots business people tend to forget about grudges if there's money to be made. They know however money will only be made with open borders, so I'd expect any confirmation of those international routes will happen post a new opening date. As for the 330 we know there's enough domestic transcontinental travel that it will be needed after border reopening so doubt that will go in the long term.

So if I was PER based LH crew I wouldn't be browsing real estate listings in other states just yet. Thing is there's still a lot of unused capacity out there, A380s, which won't all be back in the air by year's end. If there was so much potential flying out there those 380s would be back ASAP and perhaps those 787s and 330s would be deployed elsewhere, but that doesn't seem to be. In that press release the group Domestic capacity is only going to 60% until this blows over so I even east coast bases won't be flying at max hours for the foreseeable future. I think what may be likely is a return to rolling stand downs, no doubt airlines will lobby for more government assistance to keep going until WA finally reopens. The estimate is now for group Domestic capacity to be at 60% til this blows over. You can also expect a lot of talk about "remaining competitive" to prepare for future EBA negotiations.

As to that new date, it's up in the air.

On one hand due to McGowan not having the balls to own a specific date, he may hope there's further spread of the Omicron cases and more seeping in with some compassionate returnees in Feb, so after the East Coast waves reduce (which they are starting to peak now) he can reopen but have an excuse that means he doesn't have to own that decision.

At the other extreme if he wants 80-90% boosted that won't be until June, and then there's zero chance they'll open up at the start of winter. So then Oct/Nov as a minimum, and then the elderly will be almost a year from their booster.

I think at this stage the eventual reopening could be a coin toss anywhere from Feb-Nov.

Also comments from the Chamber of Minerals and Energy warning about delaying reopening too much, These are the guys who supposedly the most important in the state:

https://thewest.com.au/news/kalgoorlie-miner/free-visas-for-international-travellers-could-stem-staff-shortages-in-resources-sector-says-peak-body-c-5377922

[Chad Gates]

Yes, it's interesting how they've done a complete 180 on him, going from fawning obsequiousness to baying for his blood. Mind you, I'm not sure he cares.


It’s on total display at the checkout of every grocery store, newsagent, bakery etc…… all day, in every town in WA, calling him an “abject failure”. If he doesn’t care, he’s not much of a politician.

It’s going to be a long 3 years for him. With only the support of an unknown percentage (my guess would be for less than 50%) of the WA population (and that will diminish over time) and what now seems to be none of the media, he’s cooked.

[galdian]

It’s on total display at the checkout of every grocery store, newsagent, bakery etc…… all day, in every town in WA, calling him an “abject failure”. If he doesn’t care, he’s not much of a politician.

It’s going to be a long 3 years for him. With only the support of an unknown percentage (my guess would be for less than 50%) of the WA population (and that will diminish over time) and what now seems to be none of the media, he’s cooked.

OK what have I missed?

MM is in government, as the leader, with only two opposition members in parliament.

The people of WA voted him in with the majority to "go nuts, fill yer boots, the second coming has arrived".

He doesn't have to appeal to the people, only to his own party....or at least keep them in control.

Simples really! :ok:

[Xeptu]

Meatloaf is dead, once was a legend

[SHVC]

east coast bases won't be flying at max hours for the foreseeable future. I think what may be likely is a return to rolling stand downs, no doubt airlines will lobby for more government assistance to keep going until WA finally reopens.


Borders are open, there is flying, because pax numbers are down and pilots are not rostered max hrs is not cause for stand downs. If they do use use this and unions allow them to, what happens in 2028 if this is over and the usual February quiet is on?! It almost would make the work force casuals allowing stand downs all the time. It’s just the cost of doing business and QF must wear the wage bill.

[WingNut60]

Yes, it's interesting how they've done a complete 180 on him, going from fawning obsequiousness to baying for his blood. Mind you, I'm not sure he cares.
Do you actually accept the front page of the West Australian as authoritative?
A couple of days ago they were crowing at GT's prowess as the best aviation journalist / guru on the face of the planet.

[SOPS]

It’s on total display at the checkout of every grocery store, newsagent, bakery etc…… all day, in every town in WA, calling him an “abject failure”. If he doesn’t care, he’s not much of a politician.

It’s going to be a long 3 years for him. With only the support of an unknown percentage (my guess would be for less than 50%) of the WA population (and that will diminish over time) and what now seems to be none of the media, he’s cooked.

We must be going to different shops. 😁

[dr dre]

Just to provide a glimmer of slightly more positive news.

The secret CHO health advice has been published.

Benefits of COVID-19 booster shots in WA would start to wane after March: Chief Health Officer (https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/benefits-of-covid-19-booster-shots-in-wa-would-start-to-wane-after-march-chief-health-officer-20220121-p59qae.html)

Important points:

WA could reach 75 per cent booster coverage by March 2.
Beyond that date, the waning of protection from boosters is anticipated to offset this gain, particularly among the elderly and healthcare workers who were boosted early, and decisions on future [opening] dates would require further modelling
“Any decision on opening dates should consider the potential for twin outbreaks if the peak or post-peak period is expected to fall in the winter influenza season.”


Reading that WA Health have openly admitted that opening up much later beyond early March could cause significant problems. So maybe, just maybe, there's a hope it may only be a delay of 4 weeks. Or enough that the peak doesn't hit the same time as the flu and other viruses, so potentially no later than April.

And I think what stuffed McGowan yesterday was not so much the delay but the new lack of a plan and subsequent date. Even the AMA that had previously been calling for a 4 week delay have come out very strongly against this indefinite plan:

AMA WA president Mark Duncan-Smith calls for urgent border reopen date to be announced (https://thewest.com.au/news/coronavirus/ama-wa-president-mark-duncan-smith-calls-for-urgent-border-reopen-date-to-be-announced-c-5394136)

So there's three previous Pro McGowan or strong borders groups, the WA AMA, the Chamber of Minerals and Energy and the West Australian, that have really savaged McG over yesterday's announcement and the lack of a definite date.

[dr dre]

Borders are open, there is flying, because pax numbers are down and pilots are not rostered max hrs is not cause for stand downs. If they do use use this and unions allow them to, what happens in 2028 if this is over and the usual February quiet is on?! It almost would make the work force casuals allowing stand downs all the time. It’s just the cost of doing business and QF must wear the wage bill.

Not saying I think it should happen, but what I think will happen.

They can probably use the continued WA closure to justify more stand downs across all bases as a result of overall domestic capacity reduction.

But hopefully the info in the last post I made can give hope that this delay will be short lived, as even they know that the effect of waning immunity on the elderly is more serious than not as many kids vaxxed.

[SOPS]

Leaving aside arguments about an opening date, that Health Department release is interesting. If booster shots start wane….can we expect to need a shot every 6 months from now on.?

[Chad Gates]

Is that the first time we’ve ever seen any of the health advice? I can’t remember ever seeing any over the last 2 years. That they feel the need to release it is interesting in itself.

[dr dre]

If booster shots start wane….can we expect to need a shot every 6 months from now on.?

The European Medicines Agency admitted that frequent boosters (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-booster-shots-risk-overloading-immune-system-ema-says#:~:text=European%20Union%20regulators%20warned%20that,t o%20the%20European%20Medicines%20Agency.) given every 6 months would be useless and have no real effect. Instead shots should be timed to coincide with your flu season shot, just prior to winter.

Is that the first time we’ve ever seen any of the health advice? I can’t remember ever seeing any over the last 2 years. That they feel the need to release it is interesting in itself.

Maybe to cool off speculation it would be a longer term closure? Maybe they think they can get away with a 4 week delay but want to remain vague about the exact date until closer, seeing they've already broken one promise.

[Potsie Weber]

There is a chance McGowan won’t have a particularly difficult decision in a month or so. Testing rates in WA are dismally low with the current outbreak and his border decision has very much split the state in half. This is on top of increasing opposition to his heavy handed vaccine mandates and smugness over other states and countries. A huge number of WA residents are 1st generation interstate or overseas immigrants and are fed up with him. His latest stunt could well be a tipping point.

Never before have I seen local social media posts wishing COVID to start spreading in WA, today I have seen plenty. Plenty of comments on the radio too about no longer being so compliant with checking in, vaccine status or booster shots. There is a real growing sense of anger and increasing numbers actively willing to let COVID rip, don’t check in, ignore exposure site info and don’t get tested. Four cases today that can’t be linked, this could explode very quickly and the borders become meaningless.

[dr dre]

Four cases today that can’t be linked, this could explode very quickly and the borders become meaningless.

What I found interesting was the Rio Tinto workers at the airport picked up in preflight screening.

One would've assumed they were asymptomatic and not linked to any known cases. So they rocked up at the airport thinking there was no reason that they could potentially be infected. So there must be more quiet spread going on in the city unawares. So Covid zero won't come back, and even in hot weather and masks it must be ready to go exponential.

Again it links in with my theory that McG just doesn't have the balls to own a reopening date and take the blame for letting the virus in. So hopefully it takes off and he has an excuse to deflect criticism.

More weight to that theory (http://Dr Robertson recommended health workers moving to WA from interstate after February 5 should have their quarantine time reduced to seven days of home isolation and they should be able to work in their second week after arriving to boost staffing levels.):

Dr Robertson recommended health workers moving to WA from interstate after February 5 should have their quarantine time reduced to seven days of home isolation and they should be able to work in their second week after arriving to boost staffing levels.

So ordinary people have to do 14 days at home, but healthcare workers can go to work after 7 days straight into the middle of hospitals and aged care homes? McGowan surely must want an outbreak

[Xeptu]

You don't need to be in any rush to let the virus in, it will happen all by itself. when it does happen if you think life is going back to normal you are seriously deluded. We in SA would never have agreed to this if we knew what was going to happen. like us as it was, you are not experiencing any inconvenience at all at the moment, that's all about to change, Supply shortages, business closed, can't do much because nothing is open at least the way you expect it to be and for what, so we can travel, well that's not going to plan either. I deeply regret supporting opening the borders, but you guys don't take our advice and experience for it, you just jump straight in there and do it, don't say you weren't warned. I don't want to hear your whining after the event.

[Torukmacto]

You don't need to be in any rush to let the virus in, it will happen all by itself. when it does happen if you think life is going back to normal you are seriously deluded. We in SA would never have agreed to this if we knew what was going to happen. like us as it was, you are not experiencing any inconvenience at all at the moment, that's all about to change, Supply shortages, business closed, can't do much because nothing is open at least the way you expect it to be and for what, so we can travel, well that's not going to plan either. I deeply regret supporting opening the borders, but you guys don't take our advice and experience for it, you just jump straight in there and do it, don't say you weren't warned. I don't want to hear your whining after the event.
if you don’t jump in how do you get to the other side ?

[Xeptu]

I don't know, all I know is that we are shutting down all operations at the end of the month, anyone who drills holes in the ground will shut down soon afterwards, like us we are all falling over like a row of dominoes, I don't have the answers, except that it wasn't like this when the borders were closed.

[dr dre]

You don't need to be in any rush to let the virus in, it will happen all by itself. when it does happen if you think life is going back to normal you are seriously deluded. We in SA would never have agreed to this if we knew what was going to happen. like us as it was, you are not experiencing any inconvenience at all at the moment, that's all about to change, Supply shortages, business closed, can't do much because nothing is open at least the way you expect it to be and for what, so we can travel, well that's not going to plan either. I deeply regret supporting opening the borders, but you guys don't take our advice and experience for it, you just jump straight in there and do it, don't say you weren't warned. I don't want to hear your whining after the event.

I see this type of comment a lot but no acknowledgement of reality.

1, there will always be a reopening wave, whether you open up at 90% double vaxxed or 99% triple vaxxed. The case rise will be exponential and the media will fearmonger about it. This is inevitable. The only option is to never reopen and use "crush and kill" full lockdowns if there's an outbreak permanently.

2, people react to what the media feeds them. Fearmonger non stop about cases, people will be too afraid to step outside. Ambulance services and Emergency Departments are reporting most Covid cases using rushing to use those services have mild symptoms and have overreacted.

3, rules designed to stop the original version or Delta aren't appropriate for Omicron. Most are reporting a day or two needed off work, but rules dictate a full 7 days off work. This affects staff shortages considerably.

4, the Omicron wave is having a lower effect on health systems than even the most optimistic predictions. SA has about 200-400 ICU beds, currently 33 occupied with those tested positive to Covid, this has peaked or is very close to.

5, not sure about SA but Victoria definitely isn't hiding away from the AO tennis crowds I can see. WA broadcaster admits Sydney isn't locking itself (https://www.6pr.com.au/swings-and-roundabouts-sydney-no-ghost-town-says-gareth-parker/) away despite popular WA opinion.

As someone in WA I've noticed the mask wearing and slight cases in the community has caused a noticeable decrease in public movement already. Until the wave passes it will remain.

[Xeptu]

The expectation was to let the virus do its thing, that's what we understood, we are vaxxed we are ready, that's not what is happening, we are required to isolate, get tested, what for. This is madness, everything and I mean everything is going to stop within a month at this rate if the government or health advise continues on this path.

[Keg]

The next couple of months are still going to be hard work. After that we’ll likely be through the worst and coming out the other side.

Well, those of us outside of WA will be. WA will still have that storm ahead of them. It’s coming. They’re just delaying the inevitable.

[Xeptu]

Except that there is no way to know that. There is more likely to be yet another variant. Personally I believe that WA has made the right decision for now, 20% productivity for the rest of us is not sustainable for much longer. We can't recover from the economic domino effect all that quickly, which means things will get worse before they get better. We must either live with the virus or don't, there is no half way measure. I think your couple of months is ambitious.

[SHVC]

MM is a terrible leader he gloats about his surplus budget he has had over two yrs now to prepare, he has definitely proven he is not a critical or forward thinker. WA has made a bad choice, WA will slow the country down when they decide it’s safe because they will have the same mess that East states have now. NSW is showing signs of stabilization with hospital numbers and ICU (numbers irrelevant who bloody cares how many have it).

im from WA have family and friends there still and looking at social media post they are well over it, they were happy it was a zero case state but continuing to miss family, friends, weddings, births you all get it the list goes on. MM better organize his ducks for the next pandemic. I think the mental impact on residents over there will come forth very quickly.

Next steps that really need to happen is media control (yeah I wish) if anyone has watched 17:00 news reporter UH spends a good 5 minutes scaremongering ppl on cases. That’s not what needs to be reported. The breakdown of cases, death etc is not relative to what actually is happening. If it were to be stripped back to actual deaths from COVID and in hospital because of COVID the numbers will be much much less.

[Xeptu]

We are ALL over it, regardless of where you come from. Just don't go believing that with the borders open things will get better and you'll be able to travel, because that's not what's going to happen. Ask any business in SA, the border has only been open 8 weeks and it's an economic catastrophe already.

[goodonyamate]

We are ALL over it, regardless of where you come from. Just don't go believing that with the borders open things will get better and you'll be able to travel, because that's not what's going to happen. Ask any business in SA, the border has only been open 8 weeks and it's an economic catastrophe already.

is that because of the virus or the ridiculous isolation rules. What a pathetic nation Australia is, shameful.

[SHVC]

Exactly, Australia is pathetic! Reason why S.A business and east coast business are struggling is because the politicians are so hell bent on case numbers. It has even been said here that ppl have had to take 7-14 days off work what normally would be 1-2 days off. People having to isolate because of the close contact rubbish for over 7 days is killing progress. As I’ve said earlier the real factual numbers need to be worked out- going to hospital with a broken leg and testing positive whilst there is a COVID hospital number when it should really be they went to hospital because of the broken leg, that does not make news I guess.

[ManillaChillaDilla]

The arrogance of Mcgowan is simply unbelievable.

No border closure can overcome nature. Thats what we are dealing with at the end of the day.

As Keg says, prolonging the inevetable, at the expence of an entire state and perhaps the country.

Moronic.

MCD

[Xeptu]

is that because of the virus or the ridiculous isolation rules. What a pathetic nation Australia is, shameful.

Well that's debateable, The issues for us is supply and staff. We can't get what we need and half our own staff are in isolation, the other half can't function without them. We have made the decision we will do the Australia Day thing, then suspend all operations for a month. Hopefully beyond that we will have sufficient supply and staff for a reboot. It's all we can do, we are unable to operate as things are.

[Chad Gates]

I find this very interesting. Yesterday the front page of the West Australian called MM an abject failure. Today it calls him a liar. This newspaper (if you can even call it that, but let’s be honest, it’s the only newspaper West Australians read) used to gush over him only 2 days ago.

[BuzzBox]

…let’s be honest, it’s the only newspaper West Australians read)….

What utter crap.

[Chad Gates]

Sorry buzz, can you tell me where I can find another WA newspaper? And I don’t mean online.

[BuzzBox]

Don't change the goal posts Chad. That's not what you said the first time.

[Chad Gates]

Yes it is buzz. You’re trying to change the goalposts. I always said newspaper, and that’s what I meant. Anyway the point is, the only newspaper you can buy in WA has turned on Mark.

[Icarus2001]

Anyway the point is, the only newspaper you can buy in WA has turned on Mark. See now you are just making yourself look silly.
The Australian newspaper is readily available in WA. As are others to a lesser degree.

[Chad Gates]

Yep true. The Australian however is not a West Australian newspaper.

I would suspect most would understand my point. Arguing about whether you can buy the SMH in Perth is not really what I’m getting at.

[Lead Balloon]

Chad said "another WA newspaper", not "another newspaper in WA". Chad is correct.

[dr dre]

I find this very interesting. Yesterday the front page of the West Australian called MM an abject failure. Today it calls him a liar. This newspaper (if you can even call it that, but let’s be honest, it’s the only newspaper West Australians read) used to gush over him only 2 days ago.

Yep. They've torn into him:

Mark McGowan’s border backflip: The seven claims the Premier made that don’t stack up (https://thewest.com.au/news/coronavirus/mark-mcgowans-border-backflip-the-seven-claims-the-premier-made-that-dont-stack-up-c-5392959)

The front page of tomorrow's The West Australian #auspol

Also to note the two side pieces on the front page. Snap poll saying 70% of WA believes he should have had the health system ready by Feb 5. And mystery cases picked up in random screening. It's already spreading.

[BuzzBox]

Yes it is buzz. You’re trying to change the goalposts. I always said newspaper, and that’s what I meant. Anyway the point is, the only newspaper you can buy in WA has turned on Mark.

Err, no. You said "it’s the only newspaper West Australians read". The West Australian might be the only daily WA newspaper, but it is NOT the only newspaper West Australians read, as you originally claimed. 'National' newspapers such as The Australian and the Australian Financial Review are widely available and are widely read. The Australian has always been extremely critical of McGowan, so it's not like West Australians have never been exposed to anti-McGowan views before now.

[BuzzBox]

Chad said "another WA newspaper", not "another newspaper in WA". Chad is correct.

Except that's not what he said the first time.

[Jester64]

We are ALL over it, regardless of where you come from. Just don't go believing that with the borders open things will get better and you'll be able to travel, because that's not what's going to happen. Ask any business in SA, the border has only been open 8 weeks and it's an economic catastrophe already.

With borders open, things get worse before they get better. With borders closed, things stay the same. You have make your move at some point.

[BuzzBox]

Also to note the two side pieces on the front page. Snap poll saying 70% of WA believes he should have had the health system ready by Feb 5.

That result is hardly surprising, given the government had already announced it would reopen on 5 Feb. The West asked a question to get the result it wanted. Channel 7 yesterday conducted another poll that asked the question: "Do you agree with McGowan's decision", or something similar. Some 73% of respondents said YES.

Here's another view: ‘Who wants to get sick?’: Why the west will mostly back Mark McGowan (https://www.smh.com.au/national/who-wants-to-get-sick-why-the-west-will-mostly-back-mark-mcgowan-despite-backflip-20220121-p59q4e.html)

[Jester64]

That result is hardly surprising, given the government had already announced it would reopen on 5 Feb. The West asked a question to get the result it wanted. Channel 7 yesterday conducted another poll which asked the question: "Do you agree with McGowan's decision", or something similar. Some 73% of respondents said YES.

That’s because three-quarters of the population voted for him and place their trust in him to make the best decisions for WA. A day before the announcement, if the question read “should we be opening and do you want to open on 5th FEB, 73% would have said yes. What I’m trying to say is that he has most of WA wrapped around is finger, whatever he says is the right thing to do, they believe it and don’t question it.

[SHVC]

It was first reported this would go against Sco Mo and Co for the fed election as they couldn’t get into WA for the campaign and MM could do each way Albanese work for him. It could also have the opposite effect on first glance. I e never looked forward to an election as much as this one, except the last one.

[dr dre]

Err, no. You said "it’s the only newspaper West Australians read". The West Australian might be the only daily WA newspaper, but it is NOT the only newspaper West Australians read, as you originally claimed. 'National' newspapers such as The Australian and the Australian Financial Review are widely available and are widely read. The Australian has always been extremely critical of McGowan, so it's not like West Australians have never been exposed to anti-McGowan views before now.

The AFR and Australian have a circulation in WA of about 14,000 and 9,000. The West Australian 130,000. It's also the paper that sits in cafes, doctor's offices etc that people have a quick browse of for a few minutes, and for the last two days for the first time they've been getting very anti-McGowan headlines. Have a look at the West's website as well and you'll see articles mostly disagreeing with this decision. As well as their subsidiary PerthNow website which similarly has about 10x the online viewership in WA than the AFR or Oz.

[dr dre]

It was first reported this would go against Sco Mo and Co for the fed election as they couldn’t get into WA for the campaign and MM could do each way Albanese work for him. It could also have the opposite effect on first glance. I e never looked forward to an election as much as this one, except the last one.

Liberals would be better off keeping Morrison out of WA. Whilst people (myself included) don't agree with McGowan's backflip I put ultimate blame on our fracturing as a nation on the guy that's meant to be in charge of the whole thing. Where has Morrison been over this decision? I haven't heard a peep from him and if he has opened his mouth no one is really listening as his credibility is now shot.

Whilst state governments have been doing their own thing the last two years and a lot have excused the PM's lack of action on an inability to control them, a good federal government with strong and effective leadership and good forward planning could've pulled the nation in one direction. As Howard did over the 1996 gun laws. McGowan's failure of leadership is only second to Morrison. That's what happens when the failed marketer sacked by John Howard who got pre selection and then party leader through some dubious actions or being the last man standing. You get all spin no substance, and I think many have seen through him for a while now.

[neville_nobody]

Whilst state governments have been doing their own thing the last two years and a lot have excused the PM's lack of action on an inability to control them, a good federal government with strong and effective leadership and good forward planning could've pulled the nation in one direction. As Howard did over the 1996 gun laws. McGowan's failure of leadership is only second to Morrison. That's what happens when the failed marketer sacked by John Howard who got pre selection and then party leader through some dubious actions or being the last man standing. You get all spin no substance, and I think many have seen through him for a while now.


Small problem of a High Court case that gifted Mc Gowan all his power.

Morrison should have grabbed the bulls by the horns from day 1 that might have worked as Mc Gowan didn't want locked borders until he realised it was popular. However even doing that was a grey area in terms of who was responsible for what.

[BuzzBox]

Where has Morrison been over this decision? I haven't heard a peep from him and if he has opened his mouth no one is really listening as his credibility is now shot.

There is only one reason for Morrison's absence in the current debate: the looming Federal election. He knows darned well that McGowan still enjoys a huge amount of support. If Morrison pushes too hard the LNP will lose more votes in several marginal seats that could make or break the next election. He saw the backlash that occurred in WA when the Commonwealth Government supported Palmer's High Court challenge. The Commonwealth subsequently withdrew and since then Morrison has largely kept quiet about WA and McGowan.

[SOPS]

There is only one reason for Morrison's absence in the current debate: the looming Federal election. He knows darned well that McGowan still enjoys a huge amount of support. If Morrison pushes too hard the LNP will lose more votes in several marginal seats that could make or break the next election. He saw the backlash that occurred in WA when the Commonwealth Government supported Palmer's High Court challenge. The Commonwealth subsequently withdrew and since then Morrison has largely kept quiet about WA and McGowan.

Very well said.

[SHVC]

I guess maybe an easy answer to Sco Mo absence is accountability, secretly he most likely likes that the premiers are controlling the health orders. Imagine each way Albo now if Sco Mo was responsible he would be saying the Libs are responsible for every death and every other problem associated with this mess.

[Clare Prop]

You don't need to be in any rush to let the virus in, it will happen all by itself. when it does happen if you think life is going back to normal you are seriously deluded. We in SA would never have agreed to this if we knew what was going to happen. like us as it was, you are not experiencing any inconvenience at all at the moment, that's all about to change, Supply shortages, business closed, can't do much because nothing is open at least the way you expect it to be and for what, so we can travel, well that's not going to plan either. I deeply regret supporting opening the borders, but you guys don't take our advice and experience for it, you just jump straight in there and do it, don't say you weren't warned. I don't want to hear your whining after the event.
This is what I am hearing from friends in SA and QLD. They wish their premiers had waited a bit longer too.
The worry isn't so much having to deal with the virus as 14 days of house arrest for a triple vaxxed negative testing healthy individual who has been unlucky enough to become a "close contact".
The current iso requirements would have meant we would be without healthcare workers and all industries grinding to a halt within a week or two of throwing open the borders. No jobkeeper, cashflow boost etc this time.
McGowan's last "lockdown grant" was only given to a very very small selection of businesses affected - he lost a massive amount of support when that promise turned out to be an email to the vast majority saying "You are not eligable for this grant".
If you are going to let it rip then why bother with iso?
Sure McGowan has lost a lot of support, but from what I hear the majority of people are very relieved he hasn't just gone from hard border to no border overnight.

[Jester64]

Very well said.

If SCOMO wins the election, I think the feds will up the pressure somehow on McGowan and the border wouldn’t remain closed much longer after the election win (if he wins)

[dr dre]

If SCOMO wins the election, I think the feds will up the pressure somehow on McGowan and the border wouldn’t remain closed much longer after the election win (if he wins)

May 14 or 21 will be the most likely dates for the next election. However it looks as if WA will be open well before then. If the current low rate of spread around the city doesn't exponentially grow to the point where the border becomes redundant, then there is a narrow window for reopening laid out in the following article below:

COVID WA: Why Mark McGowan may have to open border sooner (https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/covid-wa-why-mark-mcgowan-may-have-to-open-border-sooner--c-5398047)

“This [booster coverage] is expected to have a significant impact on [Omicron] modelling up to the end of March,” he said.

In his written advice to push back the February 5 reopening date, Chief Health Officer Andy Robertson gave the clearest indication yet WA would reconnect with the world in the autumn.

He said the added protection of booster shots would start to wane from the end of March, particularly among the elderly and healthcare workers who were the first to get a third dose.

He told the Premier that any decision on a new opening date should consider the potential for “twin outbreaks” if the COVID peak or post-peak period was expected to fall in the winter flu season.

WA Health had planned for the peak to be about two months after February 5, with hospital occupancy typically best in February, March and April.

The PCR testing regime was expected to collapse under the demand caused by the fast-spreading variant, meaning rapid antigen tests would be crucial. By February 27, just over 25 million were expected to be available and a further 37.75 million by late March.

So basically elderly and healthcare workers have been boosted over the last month. The peak of booster protection starts to wane from late March. Meaning you would want maximum protection around this time. You also don't want too much occupancy in winter, with a dual viral spread happening simultaneously. More RATs will be available then too. So if you open at the start of March the peak should be late March when the protection is highest. Then through April the cases reduce and a few weeks later hospitalisations too, so by the start of winter Covid won't be as much of an issue and then ready for influenza and RSV.

Now if that reopening was delayed as you suggested til after the mid May election the wave would be right through winter, with much less effectiveness of boosters in the elderly and simultaneous Covid and Flu outbreaks. That would be a bit of a disaster in the health system and obviously bad PR so even McGowan would want to avoid this.

My bet would be a early to mid March reopening date. Although he may have gotten some kudos for delaying the date what I think has screwed him is the lack of an alternative. Even the previously cautious AMA has urged him to quickly set a new date.

[Jester64]

He doesn’t act on health advice, he hides behind it. I remember watching the debate between Zak and Mark pre-election and when asked by a reporter “will you open the border after the vaccine rollout?” his answer was “if the health advice says so”. That’s when I knew it’s not his intention to open until covid magically ceases to exist. His backflip just proves that.

[aviation_enthus]

This is what I am hearing from friends in SA and QLD. They wish their premiers had waited a bit longer too.
The worry isn't so much having to deal with the virus as 14 days of house arrest for a triple vaxxed negative testing healthy individual who has been unlucky enough to become a "close contact".
The current iso requirements would have meant we would be without healthcare workers and all industries grinding to a halt within a week or two of throwing open the borders. No jobkeeper, cashflow boost etc this time.
McGowan's last "lockdown grant" was only given to a very very small selection of businesses affected - he lost a massive amount of support when that promise turned out to be an email to the vast majority saying "You are not eligable for this grant".
If you are going to let it rip then why bother with iso?
Sure McGowan has lost a lot of support, but from what I hear the majority of people are very relieved he hasn't just gone from hard border to no border overnight.

But in SA and QLD how much of that public concern comes from a failure of leadership?

QLD has played politics with the border throughout the pandemic (QLD hospitals for Queenslanders). She’s also played on the “southerner” sentiment. So it’s a natural reaction for people to be apprehensive when “those people” are allowed back in.

SA has a clear bias towards extremely cautious rules. “Don’t touch the ball at the AFL” comes to mind! Lockdown over the pizza shop anyone?

Tasmania has similar problems with onerous rules but no one cares about Tasmania so it doesn’t get mentioned.

What I mean by failure of leadership is our various Premiers mostly failing to lead from the front and guide people towards opening and rising cases. They needed to make a rational argument why we should open AND then drop the obsession with case numbers and isolation rules.

The fact case numbers are still widely reported shows we are focusing on the wrong thing. The isolation rules also show we aren’t focusing on the right thing. The whole idea of a close contact shouldn’t even exist anymore. The only rules should be for people with actual symptoms, stay home. Everyone else should be allowed to continue to work until they actually get sick.

Because at the end of the day, the risk of serious illness or death does NOT exist anymore. The statistics for death/ICU are getting close to influenza. Which is to be expected after we did what we were told and got vaccinated. Plus Omicron is a milder version than Delta.

[Jester64]

But in SA and QLD how much of that public concern comes from a failure of leadership?

QLD has played politics with the border throughout the pandemic (QLD hospitals for Queenslanders). She’s also played on the “southerner” sentiment. So it’s a natural reaction for people to be apprehensive when “those people” are allowed back in.

SA has a clear bias towards extremely cautious rules. “Don’t touch the ball at the AFL” comes to mind! Lockdown over the pizza shop anyone?

Tasmania has similar problems with onerous rules but no one cares about Tasmania so it doesn’t get mentioned.

What I mean by failure of leadership is our various Premiers mostly failing to lead from the front and guide people towards opening and rising cases. They needed to make a rational argument why we should open AND then drop the obsession with case numbers and isolation rules.

The fact case numbers are still widely reported shows we are focusing on the wrong thing. The isolation rules also show we aren’t focusing on the right thing. The whole idea of a close contact shouldn’t even exist anymore. The only rules should be for people with actual symptoms, stay home. Everyone else should be allowed to continue to work until they actually get sick.

Because at the end of the day, the risk of serious illness or death does NOT exist anymore. The statistics for death/ICU are getting close to influenza. Which is to be expected after we did what we were told and got vaccinated. Plus Omicron is a milder version than Delta.

Getting close to what we had with influenza, and despite those numbers of deaths, there was not even a whisper of upcoming masks lockdowns or border closures. It would have taken a lot more influenza deaths before any of those measures would have been introduced. What’s the difference now? The word ‘covid’ splashed on all media headlines, combined with the number of stoopid people in Australia and we have the resultant fear.

[BuzzBox]

Here's the advice given to McGowan by the WA Chief Health Officer. Most of it has been ignored by the media.

CONTROLLED BORDER TRANSITION ARRANGEMENTS (https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2022-01/CHO-HA-190122.pdf)

[SRFred]

Seems that link doesn't exist anymore. LOL

[BuzzBox]

My apologies. The link still worked earlier this afternoon, but has since been taken down. It was published yesterday afternoon as part of an article by WA Today:

Benefits of COVID-19 booster shots in WA would start to wane after March: Chief Health Officer (https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/benefits-of-covid-19-booster-shots-in-wa-would-start-to-wane-after-march-chief-health-officer-20220121-p59qae.html)

Edit: They changed the link. The advice can now be viewed here:

CONTROLLED BORDER TRANSITION ARRANGEMENTS (https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2022-01/CHO_HA_190122.pdf)

[Angle of Attack]

Very nice health advice to print such nice formal letters lol, pity the WA health system is still a cesspit of disgrace! With all due respect I lived in Perth 25 years ago and the health system was absolute disaster back then, just shows you can’t fix stupid. And Stupid tends to be at a high level in remote cities. The Feds should move to remove them from Australia and invade and destroy them one day later, best outcome for all.😂

[aviation_enthus]

My apologies. The link still worked earlier this afternoon, but has since been taken down. It was published yesterday afternoon as part of an article by WA Today:

Benefits of COVID-19 booster shots in WA would start to wane after March: Chief Health Officer (https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/benefits-of-covid-19-booster-shots-in-wa-would-start-to-wane-after-march-chief-health-officer-20220121-p59qae.html)

Edit: They changed the link. The advice can now be viewed here:

CONTROLLED BORDER TRANSITION ARRANGEMENTS (https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2022-01/CHO_HA_190122.pdf)

So given all this, if they don’t announce a “firm” date to open around late February/March then when?

If there’s no community transmission then either (assuming they get the current cases under control), it’ll be an easy excuse to hold off longer.

So if not March, then they delay again significantly to avoid the winter surge of other illnesses.

So I see it as either March or January/February 2023.

[BuzzBox]

So given all this, if they don’t announce a “firm” date to open around late February/March then when?

Who knows? One of the CHO's recommendations was "develop a recommended case number threshold for opening the international and interstate borders, if outbreaks occur prior to the planned opening date". If the current outbreak keeps growing, then McGowan's hand might be forced.

[WingNut60]

.. I lived in Perth 25 years ago and the health system was absolute disaster back then............
Oh? You mean during the government of Richard Court? (1993 - 2001) and John Howard (1996 until he became the only Australian Prime Minister to lose his seat while in office)

[Jester64]

If SCOMO had any balls, he would drop the arrival caps into WA. As far as I’m aware, this falls under federal jurisdiction, but the current 250 arrivals per week was made on request by the WA state government. McGowan would then have no choice but to home quarantine all the arrivals. At least get Australian’s home. But no, SCOMO needs to look after the needs of his party’s re-election before the needs of Australians stranded abroad.

[aviation_enthus]

Who knows? One of the CHO's recommendations was "develop a recommended case number threshold for opening the international and interstate borders, if outbreaks occur prior to the planned opening date". If the current outbreak keeps growing, then McGowan's hand might be forced.

Which as I believe Dr Dre said, might actually be the intention.

If it does get away from him and cases rise, he can argue that he “did everything to save WA residents” but the virus got through anyway due to (probably) “those pesky eastern states ruining our lives”.

He’ll get to save face vs opening up and. HIM being the reason the virus is there.

[BuzzBox]

Which as I believe Dr Dre said, might actually be the intention.

If it does get away from him and cases rise, he can argue that he “did everything to save WA residents” but the virus got through anyway due to (probably) “those pesky eastern states ruining our lives”.

He’ll get to save face vs opening up and. HIM being the reason the virus is there.

Dr Dre’s ‘bet’ of mid-to-late March was based on the CHO’s advice re booster efficacy, hospital bed availability, etc, which sounds reasonable. If McGowan doesn’t open then, he’ll need to wait until after the winter illness peak, but then we’re potentially back to needing further boosters to ensure maximum protection. So, mid-to-late March seems quite likely, but all bets are off if the current outbreak gets out of hand.

You can dream up other excuses for McGowan’s decision to delay the 5 Feb reopening, but the advice from the CHO clearly recommended such a decision.

[dr dre]

Dr Dre’s ‘bet’ of mid-to-late March was based on the CHO’s advice re booster efficacy, hospital bed availability, etc, which sounds reasonable. If McGowan doesn’t open then, he’ll need to wait until after the winter illness peak, but then we’re potentially back to needing further boosters to ensure maximum protection. So, mid-to-late March seems quite likely, but all bets are off if the current outbreak gets out of hand.

You can dream up other excuses for McGowan’s decision to delay the 5 Feb reopening, but the advice from the CHO clearly recommended such a decision.

I would say early to mid March. Australia wide cases peak in the Omicron wave 17 days after they took off, the UK about 3 weeks. In Queensland they peaked a month after borders open, about 2-3 weeks after spread really took off. From the UK and South Africa we can see Omicron waves last about 6-7 weeks, a rapid rise followed by a rapid decrease. Already beginning to see the start of a similar decrease in Australia. We can expect by mid Feb the East Coast wavs to have mostly subsided, meaning more RAT tests and health staff available for WA if they started their wave just after that.

March 2 was named in the CHO health advice document. March 5 is the next Saturday. I'd reckon those are the most likely candidates.

Push back domestic flying by a month, but the additional international services planned out of Perth shouldn't be effected, as they weren't scheduled to start til late March or April.

If McGowan doesn’t open then, he’ll need to wait until after the winter illness peak, but then we’re potentially back to needing further boosters to ensure maximum protection.

Israel found a 4th shot to be ineffective, and the European Medical Agency has said more than 3 shots can be harmful to the immune system. They recommended the boosters be timed to co-incide with prior to winter, so March-May in the Southern Hemisphere which is when we usually get flu shots. So you won't see the next round of mass vaccinations in Australia until March-May 2023.

[BuzzBox]

I would say early to mid March.

I agree. The 'mid-to-late March' bit was an error on my part.

Israel found a 4th shot to be ineffective, and the European Medical Agency has said more than 3 shots can be harmful to the immune system.

I did say 'potentially'. The Israeli study found the fourth dose was ineffective at preventing symptomatic infection with Omicron, despite a significant increase in antibodies. However, the study was very small and did not answer the question of protection against serious illness, particularly amongst those with compromised immune systems (https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-study-on-4th-shots-for-covid-is-bad-news-but-not-as-bad-as-it-seems/). The EMA's Marco Cavaleri said that "While use of additional boosters can be part of contingency plans, repeated vaccinations within short intervals would not represent a sustainable long-term strategy" because it hypothetically increases the risk of overloading people's immune systems (https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/eu-drug-regulator-says-more-data-needed-impact-omicron-vaccines-2022-01-11/). The comment was related to the long-term use of successive boosters, not specifically to a second booster (ie fourth dose). The point being that much of this stuff is at the cutting edge of science and the jury is still out on many questions. As Cavaleri said, more data and research is needed to support decisions one way or the other. Clouding the issue further is the fact that current vaccines were not designed to target the Omicron variant and thus require the use of a booster to provide protection. The picture might well change again if Pfizer has an Omicron vaccine available in March, as has been claimed (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/10/covid-vaccine-pfizer-ceo-says-omicron-vaccine-will-be-ready-in-march.html), or if yet another variant emerges.

I think it's fair to say the next few weeks will be 'interesting', particularly if the current outbreak continues to grow, as I suspect it will.

[SOPS]

https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australian-travellers-may-be-locked-out-of-europe-as-omicron-surges-20220123-p59qhy.html

Lets open up and get people flying. It’s all going to plan.

[Jester64]

SOPS are you still flying for a living?

[SOPS]

SOPS are you still flying for a living?

No. But I’m still have plenty of friends that are or wish they were.

[Jester64]

No. But I’m still have plenty of friends that are or wish they were.

And do you want those friends to return to flying? The position, tone and the garbage mainstream media links you post indicate otherwise.

[Xeptu]

And do you want those friends to return to flying? The position, tone and the garbage mainstream media links you post indicate otherwise.

And here we go agen, just because someone doesn't agree with you they are an antivaxxer, political activist, ra ra ra. I'm in SA, I supported opening the borders, I am triple vaxxed, our business is closing at the end of the month for lack of supply and staff. I deeply regret opening the borders, I will not be having a fourth jab because I conclude it doesn't work according to my expectations. If we need to close the borders again down the track for all the same reasons we will. McGowan is right to keep the borders closed for now and I don't give a **** what the rest of the aviation community think about that. Have a nice day.

[Jester64]

Missing my point completely.Take his latest link for example - first of all it’s a “may be locked out” not an “is being locked out”, secondly not all EU (including Italy and Greece, possibly two of the biggest EU markets for Aussies) will adopt the proposal, thirdly as soon as cases drop, Australia will quickly be removed from the red list.

Now you don’t have to be Einstein to come up with these possibilities, but he doesn’t seem to want to highlight the positives. Just the negatives, as indicated by his line:

[/QUOTE] Lets open up and get people flying. It’s all going to plan.[QUOTE]

Whilst he is free to speak in whatever manner, he’s doing no one any favours, especially his out of work friends.

Regarding the above link, no evidence of critical analysis, just has to throw in a doom and gloom statement. To me this just sounds like depression or resentment for the industry he is no longer part of. I hope it’s not, for his sake

[Jester64]

And here we go agen, just because someone doesn't agree with you they are an antivaxxer, political activist, ra ra ra. I'm in SA, I supported opening the borders, I am triple vaxxed, our business is closing at the end of the month for lack of supply and staff. I deeply regret opening the borders, I will not be having a fourth jab because I conclude it doesn't work according to my expectations. If we need to close the borders again down the track for all the same reasons we will. McGowan is right to keep the borders closed for now and I don't give a **** what the rest of the aviation community think about that. Have a nice day.

and here we go again, your position / stance is directly attributable to your personal circumstance / situation. Have a nice day

[SOPS]

https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/lockdownlike-conditions-heap-pressure-on-businesses-across-australia/news-story/a9e77fcf06e31ec31c99a69e074a3202

Its not just aviation. It’s everywhere. ( of course it could be just be main stream media garbage.) In my opinion, the opening of the borders around Australia was a mistake.

Especially when I hear the Prime Minister best idea to keep supply chains going, was to let 16 year olds drive fork lifts.

[SOPS]

and here we go again, your position / stance is directly attributable to your personal circumstance / situation. Have a nice day

And your poison/ stance isn’t, Jetstar?

[Jester64]

It would actually be beneficial for me to have WA close it’s borders. But I don’t believe it’s the right thing to do.

[Xeptu]

and here we go again, your position / stance is directly attributable to your personal circumstance / situation. Have a nice day

Yes! along with the attitude of the rest of the state and damn NSW Govt/Health to hell for their cavalier we know better attitude, despite having been present in VIC and failed to learn the lessons and failures back then.
WA will be effected soon enough, opening the borders isn't going to change anything. you are not going back to normal, you won't be flying again anytime soon, borders or no borders, everything is coming to a grinding halt. Tourism and Travel is the very last think on anybody's mind if at all. This is going to take months to recover from and more likely a year and it only started 8 weeks ago.
P.S It's not so much our professional departments, it's the public service not what it used to be. They couldn't organise a root in a brothel.

[Jester64]

Yes! along with the attitude of the rest of the state and damn NSW Govt/Health to hell for their cavalier we know better attitude, despite having been present in VIC and failed to learn the lessons and failures back then.
WA will be effected soon enough, opening the borders isn't going to change anything. you are not going back to normal, you won't be flying again anytime soon, borders or no borders, everything is coming to a grinding halt. Tourism and Travel is the very last think on anybody's mind if at all. This is going to take months to recover from and more likely a year and it only started 8 weeks ago.

Opening the borders gets loved ones re-united. That’s what I care about. Freedom of movement is restored. That’s what I care about, not having it blocked by a virus that has such an incredibly low fatality rate. As for the logistical nightmare cases are causing, change the isolation rules.

[Xeptu]

Opening the borders gets loved ones re-united. That’s what I care about. Freedom of movement is restored. That’s what I care about, not having it blocked by a virus that has such an incredibly low fatality rate. As for the logistical nightmare cases are causing, change the isolation rules.
no-one would argue with that. but that's not what going to happen, everything stops, you still can't travel at least for very long and you are left with even bigger problems. We are used to make a call and it's delivered or nip down to the store and get it yourself, wait till it's, sorry mate I don't have any and don't know when I will. when that stops your own business/ activity, now what. Do what we are doing close up for a month re-access after that.

[SHVC]

When will MM announce a lockdown to crush this virus? He has been quick to act previously. This only means one thing. MM knows the horse has bolted and he is in the war room coming up with a plan to open sooner than later now. I have noticed over the last few days in SY the airport has got busy again in the last week either it’s ppl just going home or the initial fear of omicron etc could be over and confidence is slowly on the up.

[turbantime]

have noticed over the last few days in SY the airport has got busy again in the last week either it’s ppl just going home or the initial fear of omicron etc could be over and confidence is slowly on the up.
Definitely noticed this as well. I’m hoping the initial fear is subsiding as the general population gets used to living alongside the virus. The bed wetters are still pretty vocal on social media calling for more restrictions to keep them ‘safe’ though. It’s more likely people heading home after their holidays but one can only hope.

On the isolation requirements; one of our family member, who is a doctor, tested a ‘weak positive’. Had a “tickle in his throat” one morning and did a RAT as he works in ED. By next day, is completely asymptomatic and negative RAT. His wife is also an ED doctor. Both now have to isolate for 7 days despite both showing no symptoms and coming up negative on RAT. Both had boosters. We’ll need to treat this like any respiratory virus to get back to normal. Remember the days when you stayed home until you felt better? For some it was a few days, for others it was only one day and then back into it? That’s where this needs to be heading.

[Jester64]

Definitely noticed this as well. I’m hoping the initial fear is subsiding as the general population gets used to living alongside the virus. The bed wetters are still pretty vocal on social media calling for more restrictions to keep them ‘safe’ though. It’s more likely people heading home after their holidays but one can only hope.

On the isolation requirements; one of our family member, who is a doctor, tested a ‘weak positive’. Had a “tickle in his throat” one morning and did a RAT as he works in ED. By next day, is completely asymptomatic and negative RAT. His wife is also an ED doctor. Both now have to isolate for 7 days despite both showing no symptoms and coming up negative on RAT. Both had boosters. We’ll need to treat this like any respiratory virus to get back to normal. Remember the days when you stayed home until you felt better? For some it was a few days, for others it was only one day and then back into it? That’s where this needs to be heading.

well said.

Hey SOPS, should PER go into lockdown or just let the current outbreak grow?

[Chronic Snoozer]

well said.

Hey SOPS, should PER go into lockdown or just let the current outbreak grow?

"Let it grow, let it grow
Can't hold it back anymore"

.......sorry. :bored:

[Torukmacto]

Definitely noticed this as well. I’m hoping the initial fear is subsiding as the general population gets used to living alongside the virus. The bed wetters are still pretty vocal on social media calling for more restrictions to keep them ‘safe’ though. It’s more likely people heading home after their holidays but one can only hope.

On the isolation requirements; one of our family member, who is a doctor, tested a ‘weak positive’. Had a “tickle in his throat” one morning and did a RAT as he works in ED. By next day, is completely asymptomatic and negative RAT. His wife is also an ED doctor. Both now have to isolate for 7 days despite both showing no symptoms and coming up negative on RAT. Both had boosters. We’ll need to treat this like any respiratory virus to get back to normal. Remember the days when you stayed home until you felt better? For some it was a few days, for others it was only one day and then back into it? That’s where this needs to be heading.

Agree , it feels like the majority have had enough , fear fatigue setting in and the east coast have decided it’s time to take their life back . Daily infections coming down , deaths unfortunately will take awhile to come down but they will . Having an election has made things worse , politicians on both sides inclined to pander to the bed wetters instead of doing what’s needed . Media trying to wring the last out of it and once something else gets our attention they will change direction to stoke the fears again .

[dr dre]

well said.

Hey SOPS, should PER go into lockdown or just let the current outbreak grow?

Won't make a difference now.

24 local cases, a doubling of last week's rate. I'd say it's starting to get away from them. Let's see how many FIFO workers test positive in preflight screening this week.

At this rate the border may even be open BEFORE Feb 5, as they have said that uncontrolled local spread will make it redundant.

[Jester64]

Exactly. Won’t be surprised to see a gradual reopening to start within the next 4 weeks.

[Keg]

There is no hiding under the doona until this passes over. It’s coming for everyone eventually. We’re one freaking nation. The internal borders should be open. End of story.

[Jester64]

When you have a significant part of the WA population, including the Premier turning their backs on the many stranded Australians abroad, sadly not all of us think of Australia as one.

[aviation_enthus]

no-one would argue with that. but that's not what going to happen, everything stops, you still can't travel at least for very long and you are left with even bigger problems. We are used to make a call and it's delivered or nip down to the store and get it yourself, wait till it's, sorry mate I don't have any and don't know when I will. when that stops your own business/ activity, now what. Do what we are doing close up for a month re-access after that.

But you yourself have said the isolation requirements are what’s making everything fall apart.

It’s not the numbers that are actually sick to the point they can’t work. Most people could go back to work after a few days. While asymptomatic cases wouldn’t be off work at all. It’s the isolation requirements that are based on the old “COVID zero” idea.

So what do you hope to achieve by your suggestion of “closing the borders again” ??

That strategy made sense back in 2020 when there was hardly any cases in Aus, it makes absolutely no sense now.

And yes as others have said, freedom of movement and seeing family is a reason to open up after almost two years of this rubbish. We have vaccines, we have testing facilities, we have had 18 months or more to prepare health strategies. What more do we need? It’s not going away.

[Xeptu]

There is no hiding under the doona until this passes over. It’s coming for everyone eventually. We’re one freaking nation. The internal borders should be open. End of story.
Not quite end of story. I agree with you but before you open the borders, it must not be with isolation requirements, to do so will only nobble the economy and that is vastly worse than any virus. When you open the borders you do so accepting that there will be hospitalisations and some of those will die, probably in the order of hundreds. If your not willing to accept that then don't open the borders.

[dr dre]

Not quite end of story. I agree with you but before you open the borders, it must not be with isolation requirements, to do so will only nobble the economy and that is vastly worse than any virus. When you open the borders you do so accepting that there will be hospitalisations and some of those will die, probably in the order of hundreds. If your not willing to accept that then don't open the borders.

Or people rushing Emergency Departments (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/because-of-the-naive-covid-zero-message-many-australians-cant-come-to-terms-with-catching-covid) or triple 0 calls (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-04/covid-patients-calling-000-for-help-with-symptoms/100736390) for what are mild symptoms that don't require emergency care.

Those who have been infected but have no more symptoms should be able to return to work with a mask or negative RAT, not be out of action for 7/14 days.

[Xeptu]

Or people rushing Emergency Departments (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/because-of-the-naive-covid-zero-message-many-australians-cant-come-to-terms-with-catching-covid) or triple 0 calls (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-04/covid-patients-calling-000-for-help-with-symptoms/100736390) for what are mild symptoms that don't require emergency care.

Those who have been infected but have no more symptoms should be able to return to work with a mask or negative RAT, not be out of action for 7/14 days.

Agreed, to be clear, we made the decision to open up, we are vaxxed, we are ready. We didn't know there would be a govt/ health objective to still contain the virus, WHY, if you were going to do that, don't open the borders. 8 weeks ago we wouldn't have known about a virus in SA, just the same as WA is today. Today we are all closing down, we cannot operate under these conditions. It's going to take months to recover from this mess.

[dr dre]

Tourism and Travel is the very last think on anybody's mind if at all. This is going to take months to recover from and more likely a year and it only started 8 weeks ago.


Nah it'll come back quicker than ever, it already has:

EU Commercial flights in December 2021: closest yet to 2019 figures (https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20220112-1)

December Was Aviation’s Top Month In 2021 Despite Omicron (https://simpleflying.com/december-2021-top-aviation-month/)

[dr dre]

Agreed, to be clear, we made the decision to open up, we are vaxxed, we are ready. We didn't know there would be a govt/ health objective to still contain the virus, WHY, if you were going to do that, don't open the borders. 8 weeks ago we wouldn't have known about a virus in SA, just the same as WA is today. Today we are all closing down, we cannot operate under these conditions. It's going to take months to recover from this mess.

So it appears the problem isn't the virus but the countermeasures being used.

Therefore the impetus should be to change Covid measures rather than keep the border closed.

[Xeptu]

Nah it'll come back quicker than ever, it already has

I can't speak for figures and someone else's experience, all I can tell you we are shutting down all operations at the end of the month for a month, 16 staff directly effected, half pay and a mix of annual leave to get them through, if supply is restored I expect we'll be operational by about mid april, that's going into winter, our off season. This situation is a fair spanking among all of us in the business community in SA. All i'm trying to do is make you guys in WA aware of what to expect if you take the same path.

[Jester64]

Australia hit its vaccination target. If everyone stopped pissing their pants and didn’t RAT or PCR themselves due to fear for a virus that is currently giving an extremely high survival rate, and left the testing to those only in hospital, we would have just 5,000 active cases instead of 1.1 million

[Xeptu]

My commander and chief (she who must be obeyed) says we were at 130% of capacity 4 weeks ago, now we are at 20% those numbers won't be reported until after July and won't come up in the figures until October, those economic numbers as a state is going to be frightening.

[Icarus2001]

All i'm trying to do is make you guys in WA aware of what to expect if you take the same path.

Of course if WA waits another month, they will get the same result.

If WA waits another three months, they will get the same result.

This is the point you and SOPs seem to ignore, there will never be a better time to open.

[dr dre]

Of course if WA waits another month, they will get the same result.

If WA waits another three months, they will get the same result.


Actually if they wait another three months the result will be far worse. Another three months will be the start of May. The peak efficiency of the vaccinations of the elderly is in late March. Open up in 3 months and the wave will go well into winter, combined with an Influenza and RSV wave. It'll really make hospitals suffer and McGowan's poll numbers too.

The best result will be an opening before the middle of March. Anything after will be noticeably worse.

Omicron is however well established in the community. If they theoretically did not allow another person to cross the border again there's enough local cases that there'll be a massive wave when winter hits. And the elderly boosters will have really waned by then. It'd be a disaster.

That's basically what the CHO himself has written in the advice presented.

There's so much fear now that people who test positive will panic and flood EDs and 000 like in the east. All they can do is ensure there are sensible rules for health staff to ensure the workforce isn't depleted and they can triage and calm down the "worried well" as they are called.

Any rules for other workers will have an effect on the economy as a whole. As does media fearmongering.

The direction of the pandemic in WA is pretty much set now. I'd say the only question is if the current wave takes off exponentially to render the borders moot, or if they can hold out to at the absolute latest mid March.

[Icarus2001]

Personally I would like to see an inquiry into the role of the media in making the C19 outbreak appear far worse than it is which in turn has led politicians to jump at shadows.
The behaviour of the media as a whole has been unconscionable. A disease with greater than 98% survival rate and they have people scared of leaving home.
They simply get away with saying whatever they want with never any consequences as no one polices the media. What a great system.

[Xeptu]

Of course if WA waits another month, they will get the same result.

If WA waits another three months, they will get the same result.

This is the point you and SOPs seem to ignore, there will never be a better time to open.

OK you go ahead and do it, it's your business. knock yourselves out. We don't import anything from WA anyway, it has no impact upon us at all. It's solely a decision for West Australians.

So long as you understand all that's going to change is that you'll tank your economy and lose your localised freedoms.

[Icarus2001]

So long as you understand all that's going to change is that you'll tank your economy and lose your localised freedoms

Again, how will delaying the opening by a month or three months change that outcome? It won’t.

Hot off the press…https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-23/wa-records-24-new-covid-cases-but-all-linked-to-existing/100776210

[turbantime]

Judging by the crowds at various sporting events being conducted right now, it does seem that South Australians seem to be particularly spooked by the virus. It makes sense as the two largest cities have effectively been living with this for the last two years albeit with some restrictions. Rest of the country are just going through a cognitive adjustment. And yes, the media is the main culprit here.

[Chronic Snoozer]

It's solely a decision for West Australians.

No it's not. It's solely the CHO and Premier that tell me what to do. I don't get to make decisions.

[Xeptu]

Judging by the crowds at various sporting events being conducted right now, it does seem that South Australians seem to be particularly spooked by the virus. It makes sense as the two largest cities have effectively been living with this for the last two years albeit with some restrictions. Rest of the country are just going through a cognitive adjustment. And yes, the media is the main culprit here.

The media has nothing to do with it, we are not spooked by the virus, we know all about it the same as the rest of the world, we are responding to it's impact.

[Icarus2001]

Well here is that impact….


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1298x990/de045741_5ed5_48d3_8ed3_f79d907cb519_fd0e169e767a4bc6619199c 8e4662dfe71aba80a.jpeg
Your average healthy Australian would do well to worry about dying from something other than Covid 19.

[Xeptu]

[QUOTE=Icarus2001;11173977]Well here is that impact….

And our impact has little to do with illness and death as a consequence of any virus. anyway I've said all I can, do or don't do.

[Jester64]

Well here is that impact….


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1298x990/de045741_5ed5_48d3_8ed3_f79d907cb519_fd0e169e767a4bc6619199c 8e4662dfe71aba80a.jpeg
Your average healthy Australian would do well to worry about dying from something other than Covid 19.

But McGowan said we need time to get the children vaccinated.

[Lead Balloon]

Well here is that impact….


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1298x990/de045741_5ed5_48d3_8ed3_f79d907cb519_fd0e169e767a4bc6619199c 8e4662dfe71aba80a.jpeg
Your average healthy Australian would do well to worry about dying from something other than Covid 19.
Are you suggesting that there is no causal connection between the outcomes described in those graphs and the mitigation strategies such as vaccinations and lockdowns? To put this question another way, are you suggesting that the graph would be the same without any vaccinations, lockdowns or other actions?

[Icarus2001]

Good question, I believe it would be very similar. Why would it not?

[Torukmacto]

Nothing to fear but fear itself .

Car accidents , pneumonia, smoking , bad food , suicide, all kills and we accept this as part of living . We will come to accept covid is just another thing that can get us especially as we age or get sick . The anguish of deciding to allow it be part of life is really a big problem much bigger than covid will ever be .

[Ladloy]

But McGowan said we need time to get the children vaccinated.
because they are the primary spreaders. 0-20 age group are the primary source of infection for Omicron and Delta.

[Maggie Island]

because they are the primary spreaders. 0-20 age group are the primary source of infection for Omicron and Delta.

Good try!


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x400/1642968243_2195e883acc16a0477ce18a157a1e0eae57be849.png

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100745538

The last year(ish) has been a fairly clear demonstrator that a teacher is more likely to transmit the virus in a school setting than students.

[Ladloy]

Good try!


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x400/1642968243_2195e883acc16a0477ce18a157a1e0eae57be849.png

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100745538

The last year(ish) has been a fairly clear demonstrator that a teacher is more likely to transmit the virus in a school setting than students.
If there were equal numbers of students to teachers yes. Remember these numbers are skewed because schools had stringent closure procedures for any outbreaks to prevent spread.

[Wizofoz]

Good question, I believe it would be very similar. Why would it not?

Because the vaccine prepares the immune system for the virus, and means there is a much lower chance of hostpitilisation and death. Those stats are incontravertible. That you would make this statement is unbelievable.

[Wizofoz]

Nothing to fear but fear itself .

Car accidents , pneumonia, smoking , bad food , suicide, all kills and we accept this as part of living . .

No, we don't. We spend billions mitigating the risks of car accidents, From traffic laws to design standards to licencing and enforcemment. We restrict peoples freedom in order to save as many ilves as practical. The same with food standards and mental health measures. We have made huge efforts to reduce the risk from smoking.We don't let ANY activity with that kind of risk just "let rip".

[minigundiplomat]

No, we don't. We spend billions mitigating the risks of car accidents, From traffic laws to design standards to licencing and enforcemment. We restrict peoples freedom in order to save as many ilves as practical. The same with food standards and mental health measures. We have made huge efforts to reduce the risk from smoking.We don't let ANY activity with that kind of risk just "let rip".

Either you live in WA/NZ or if not, you need to move there and you can all be scared together.

[Icarus2001]

Wizofoz, I was talking about the age profile not total numbers.

[Wizofoz]

Either you live in WA/NZ or if not, you need to move there and you can all be scared together.

Thankyou for a meaningless reply that addressed my post in exactley zero meaningful ways.

Do you wear a seatbelt, or is that giving in to fear?

[Wizofoz]

Wizofoz, I was talking about the age profile not total numbers.

Fine- though I think you'll find the profile among unvaccinated skwes maore toward younger serious cases.

[Torukmacto]

No, we don't. We spend billions mitigating the risks of car accidents, From traffic laws to design standards to licencing and enforcemment. We restrict peoples freedom in order to save as many ilves as practical. The same with food standards and mental health measures. We have made huge efforts to reduce the risk from smoking.We don't let ANY activity with that kind of risk just "let rip".
All correct , I’m not saying don’t put a seatbelt on I’m not saying drink to excess or take up smoking . Of course we try to reduce deaths and protect the vulnerable. Get vaccinated , reduce exposure and keep good hygiene but accept there will be infections and deaths like we accept there will be deaths from car accidents and smoking and get on with living .

[Wizofoz]

All correct , I’m not saying don’t put a seatbelt on I’m not saying drink to excess or take up smoking . Of course we try to reduce deaths and protect the vulnerable. Get vaccinated , reduce exposure and keep good hygiene but accept there will be infections and deaths like we accept there will be deaths from car accidents and smoking and get on with living .

Yes. AND be aware of the dangers- which is also called being afraid. Now, road laws, mitigation measures, food standards- they vary from place to place depending on a large number of variables- to say way approach is right and another is wrong is short sighted.

[43Inches]

We don't accept road deaths, or smoking deaths, which is why we have ever reducing road speeds, and ridiculous slow points to reduce the average speed of traffic. Smoking will most likely be banned by 2030, with some nations already banning it for age groups. Sugar and fatty foods will be the next agenda. Why, because it all comes down to how much cost we are prepared to accept to fund the health system and aged care vs freedom of choice. You wonder why not alcohol, well at present its widespread use for recreation prevents much measures against it, however the forces are already at work to curb that. Prohibition showed that for drugs of addiction curbing general use when it's accepted by the community is just too difficult for sudden changes.

[Jester64]

because they are the primary spreaders. 0-20 age group are the primary source of infection for Omicron and Delta.

primary spreaders who by being double vaccinated give just a 4% protection against transmission according to to state daddy himself. He has said ‘to keep our children safe’

[Jester64]

No, we don't. We spend billions mitigating the risks of car accidents, From traffic laws to design standards to licencing and enforcemment. We restrict peoples freedom in order to save as many ilves as practical. The same with food standards and mental health measures. We have made huge efforts to reduce the risk from smoking.We don't let ANY activity with that kind of risk just "let rip".

the point is we accept a certain number of road deaths otherwise vehicles would be banned completely. McGowan didn’t accept ANY death from Covid previously, hence he shut the borders to enforce Covid 0

Same with cigarettes - we accept a number of deaths despite all the death reducing initiatives we have. We could adopt what NZ and Singapore is thinking of introducing - a total ban on the young generation taking up smoking which eventually will eliminate cigarettes from legal existence after some time.

the point is we need to accept Covid deaths as well

apples to oranges of course as vehicles are needed and Covid isnt. But the acceptance of death is the similar point.

[Torukmacto]

If it was proven banning alcohol would stop covid in its tracks ( as well as car accidents , family breakups and health issues ) would Australians agree to prohibition of alcohol ? Highly unlikely ! I can hear the masses now saying , covids just a flu , does not kill many , let’s just have a beer , calm down and get on with it .

[Wizofoz]

the point is we accept a certain number of road deaths otherwise vehicles would be banned completely. McGowan didn’t accept ANY death from Covid previously, hence he shut the borders to enforce Covid 0

Same with cigarettes - we accept a number of deaths despite all the death reducing initiatives we have. We could adopt what NZ and Singapore is thinking of introducing - a total ban on the young generation taking up smoking which eventually will eliminate cigarettes from legal existence after some time.

the point is we need to accept Covid deaths as well

apples to oranges of course as vehicles are needed and Covid isnt. But the acceptance of death is the similar point.

Sure- but it's a cost/benefit analysis. Bear in mind, Covid ALSO adversley effects the ecconomy the "let her rip" crowd claims to value- we've kept a decent amount of ecconomic activitey going while keeping damage to a minimum. Even McGowan knows therewill be a time deaths are inevitable, but is of the opinion that damage can be minimized and that it's worth the longer restrictions.

I don't neccessarliy agree with him, but I do see hos point.

[Jester64]

Two steps forward, one step backwards. I think most of Australia would rather that then to have the nation sit on its hands indefinitely. I’m pretty sure the ‘let it rip’ crowd would also be calling for changes to the isolation rules.

[dr dre]

Sure- but it's a cost/benefit analysis. Bear in mind, Covid ALSO adversley effects the ecconomy the "let her rip" crowd claims to value- we've kept a decent amount of ecconomic activitey going while keeping damage to a minimum. Even McGowan knows therewill be a time deaths are inevitable, but is of the opinion that damage can be minimized and that it's worth the longer restrictions.

I don't neccessarliy agree with him, but I do see hos point.

There's some very early indications as the peak in cases has passed over east that people are now going out and spending in the economy again. Wednesday's public holiday will be an interesting comparison, I'm not sure what the situation is over east but in WA there's already trepidation over the Skyworks and numbers will probably be down there and at other public events. Very quickly the argument that WA is having a relatively normal period of holiday economic activity compared to the east is going to be a moot point.

There is a very brief window when the optimal protection from the boosters is going to be - March, in addition to the risk of allowing an outbreak in winter.

No doubt relevant businesses and the media will push him on this point. AJ on local Perth radio this morning said they are going to talk to the government and want some type of assurance about dates regarding the Perth London route, and pretty much said they have a deadline of about a week before deciding whether or not to keep it going via Darwin for either April or the peak (dry) season. As an aside he does seem to want the route to eventually return to Perth as a first preference and seems to want assurances or other commitments to keep that service in Perth for the months after it's scheduled to restart, whether it's firm dates or money or something.

Qantas CEO says customers are ‘extremely disappointed’ about WA border shut out (https://www.6pr.com.au/qantas-ceo-says-customers-are-extremely-disappointed-about-wa-border-shut-out/)

[SHVC]

Not sure how others are, here we have had February wiped clean. Sounds like no one is traveling at all. Just as I thought SY was getting busy again.

[minigundiplomat]

Thankyou for a meaningless reply that addressed my post in exactley zero meaningful ways.

Do you wear a seatbelt, or is that giving in to fear?

mate I’m double jabbed and I’ve had covid. To be honest, if I hadn’t have tested I’d have never have known. Family of varying ages have experienced cold like or mild flu like at worst.

get jabbed and move on - there’s no need to root the economy any more than it has been. It isn’t 2020, we know what we’re dealing with, there’s vaccines and it’s mutating into weaker strains.

if you all want to huddle up and hide, that’s fine, but let the rest of us get on with paying taxes to fund the health system.

[Jester64]

mate I’m double jabbed and I’ve had covid. To be honest, if I hadn’t have tested I’d have never have known. Family of varying ages have experienced cold like or mild flu like at worst.

get jabbed and move on - there’s no need to root the economy any more than it has been. It isn’t 2020, we know what we’re dealing with, there’s vaccines and it’s mutating into weaker strains.

if you all want to huddle up and hide, that’s fine, but let the rest of us get on with paying taxes to fund the health system.

Australia has a sick obsession with case
numbers and testing. 1,119,442 active cases with 1,119,050 in mild or less condition. 392 in serious or critical condition, with 138 on ventilators. And those reported case numbers are likely to be 10% of the actual case numbers, according to some state health authorities. Wake up Australia

[goodonyamate]

Judge in the defamation case with Palmer and McGowan has ruled McGowan must travel to NSW for trial. Watch that slimy piece of sh&$ try and weasel his way out of quarantine. He’s got two choices, do the hotel quarantine and taste his own medicine. He’ll probably get some respect for that. Or, the more likely outcome is he snakes his way out of it because he sees himself as too important. He’ll be smashed by all media. If he now opens, it will look like he’s only done it so he doesn’t have to quarantine. He’ll try to hide behind the ‘worlds best medical advice’ , but again, the media will smash him.

Good one Justice Lee.

[SOPS]

Judge in the defamation case with Palmer and McGowan has ruled McGowan must travel to NSW for trial. Watch that slimy piece of sh&$ try and weasel his way out of quarantine. He’s got two choices, do the hotel quarantine and taste his own medicine. He’ll probably get some respect for that. Or, the more likely outcome is he snakes his way out of it because he sees himself as too important. He’ll be smashed by all media. If he now opens, it will look like he’s only done it so he doesn’t have to quarantine. He’ll try to hide behind the ‘worlds best medical advice’ , but again, the media will smash him.

Good one Justice Lee.

Before you start getting all excited and frothing at the mouth, the Premier has already stated this morning he will do 2
weeks quarantine. And in fact, he does not have to, as politicians are exempt. But he had stated he is happy to do it.

[cessnapete]

Glancing through the previous posts posts on this subject, there seems to be various strains of Omicron depending on your Geography! The strain where I live ,which for the fully vaccinated, is more of an inconvenience than a dangerous illness. All my family and I contracted it over New Year, no more symptoms than the usual UK Winter sniffles, Fully recovered after 8/9 days. Although there are still many infections, hospitalisation and deaths are falling (Mainly the unvaccinated need hospitalisation)
Most restrictions on the public are being removed in the next week, or so, as are mandatory testing for travel in and out of the Country. And nearly full A380s fly happy pax to SA, USA and the Gulf.

Then there seems to be the far more dangerous Omicron strain feared for example, in China, parts of Australia and New Zealand which require full Isolation,no travel, and vast Lockdowns??

[minigundiplomat]

Glancing through the previous posts posts on this subject, there seems to be various strains of Omicron depending on your Geography! The strain where I live ,which for the fully vaccinated, is more of an inconvenience than a dangerous illness. All my family and I contracted it over New Year, no more symptoms than the usual UK Winter sniffles, Fully recovered after 8/9 days. Although there are still many infections, hospitalisation and deaths are falling (Mainly the unvaccinated need hospitalisation)
Most restrictions on the public are being removed in the next week, or so, as are mandatory testing for travel in and out of the Country.

Then there seems to be the far more dangerous Omicron strain feared for example, in China, parts of Australia and New Zealand which require full Isolation,no travel, and vast Lockdowns??

the election variant

[cessnapete]

May have change of PM this year,, but no General Election for a couple of years!! Are you saying the C19 stats and medical experts here are politically motivated in their advice to the public??

[Jester64]

Before you start getting all excited and frothing at the mouth, the Premier has already stated this morning he will do 2
weeks quarantine. And in fact, he does not have to, as politicians are exempt. But he had stated he is happy to do it.

I would be happy to as well if I was on 400K to spend 2 weeks at home on the payroll

[minigundiplomat]

May have change of PM this year,, but no General Election for a couple of years!! Are you saying the C19 stats and medical experts here are politically motivated in their advice to the public??

in Australia and NZ - yes. It’s been 100% politics for at least rhe last year

[The The]

Before you start getting all excited and frothing at the mouth, the Premier has already stated this morning he will do 2
weeks quarantine. And in fact, he does not have to, as politicians are exempt. But he had stated he is happy to do it.

Politicians are exempt exempt from inbound restrictions but must still do 2wks home quarantine. If Marko does that at his home, his whole family has to quarantine as well.

[SOPS]

Politicians are exempt exempt from inbound restrictions but must still do 2wks home quarantine. If Marko does that at his home, his whole family has to quarantine as well.

You are 100 percent correct.

[Buster Hyman]

Just need NSW to introduce a short term C*ckhead quarantine rule.

[WingNut60]

............. If Marko does that at his home, his whole family has to quarantine as well.
But then, why would he do that?