All borders to reopen.

[WingNut60]

My wife had her first jab from a DOCTOR a couple of weeks ago too. Our local medical clinic appears to be running a roster for the DOCTORS to be coming in on Sundays to deliver jabs to their existing patients.

Judging by the number of phone calls related to bookings and managing a waiting area with 5 minute appointment times while I was waiting for her , I would say that it was quite arduous and doubtful it’s a money spinner at all.

PS. I’ll admit to normally being on the opposite side of politics to Dr Dre and some others no doubt but I’m getting fed up with the Good Cop/Bad Cop routine that Morrison has been playing the past few months. Get rid of the supercilious cheesy grin Scott and start taking Federal responsibility instead of duck-shoving everything to everybody else.
OK, thanks. We've established that DOCTORS do still give vax jabs.
Just hasn't been my experience for a very long time.

In a world where surgeons now get the theatre nurses to open and close for them I guess it's re-assuring that some doctors still involve themselves in the mundane side of their profession.

[Fonz121]

My partner got their second Pfizer jab this morning at the biggest hospital vaccine clinic in Qld. Four people were there. In other words it was dead.

They need a vaccine carrot ASAP. Announce some kind of privilege for those who are vaccinated. It can be a gimmick like in Ohio (all those vaccinated are entered into a lottery for a million dollars). Or it could be freedom of movement. The latter would be much preferred, but just do something ffs.

The Aus Open and F1 are now saying they’ll be taken overseas if our borders don’t change as the players will refuse to quarantine again.

[cloudsurfng]

Perhaps the issue with federal responsibility is a few rogue premiers who want things done ‘a different way’.

truth is, we’ll never know what happens in national cabinet when these things are discussed, as it’s secret and separate from parliament. We only hear what they want us to hear. For all we know Scotty could have a plan but it’s being scuttled by premiers. Or Scotty could not have a plan, and premiers now think they all know best.

[Potsie Weber]

My partner got their second Pfizer jab this morning at the biggest hospital vaccine clinic in Qld. Four people were there. In other words it was dead.

They need a vaccine carrot ASAP. Announce some kind of privilege for those who are vaccinated. It can be a gimmick like in Ohio (all those vaccinated are entered into a lottery for a million dollars). Or it could be freedom of movement. The latter would be much preferred, but just do something ffs.

The Aus Open and F1 are now saying they’ll be taken overseas if our borders don’t change as the players will refuse to quarantine again.

Absolutely, we are already 2.8m doses behind the revised target (1st dose by 31 Dec). At current rate, it will take another 30mths to fully vaccinate the adult population. It will take the cancellation of big sporting events for at least some people to realise what a hermit nation we are becoming, even that will unlikely do too much to speed things up.

[Foxxster]

We are the victims of our own success.

If we had gone through what the UK, USA, Italy, Spain and now India have then we would be queuing up. The truth is most Australians haven’t been that affected either financially or by the virus itself. And few would have had a relative or friend who has been hospitalised or died from it. With the exception of no international travel things are back to normal.

Maybe we need to raise taxes now to pay back the debt or put towards those still affected. Might sharpen people’s minds as to the cost of keeping things closed due to low vaccination rates. Of course you would need bi partisan agreement which would never happen.

And In fact the well off are going to get tax reductions apparently.

[dr dre]

Well everyone's favourite Premier Gladys has given the number of people she wants vaccinated in NSW before she'll open international borders:

“In NSW, we know that we need to do at least around 10 million jabs to get the majority of our population vaccinated,” Ms Berejiklian said.

So far, 926,242 vaccine doses have been administered by NSW Health, the GP network and Commonwealth clinics.

“We have around 6 million adults and you would think at least 5 million should be vaccinated before we can have those conversations,” Ms Berejiklian said.


NSW 9 million vaccines away from considering open (international) borders: Premier (https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-9-million-vaccines-away-from-considering-open-borders-premier-20210517-p57sku.html?ref=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss_feed)

[anson harris]

I really hate the title of this thread and the way it makes my heart skip a beat every time I read it.

[Ladloy]

Well everyone's favourite Premier Gladys has given the number of people she wants vaccinated in NSW before she'll open international borders:



NSW 9 million vaccines away from considering open (international) borders: Premier (https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-9-million-vaccines-away-from-considering-open-borders-premier-20210517-p57sku.html?ref=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss_feed)
Feds ****** us there.

[SHVC]

Tennis players have said they’re not willing to do another round of HQ so are not willing to do that for the open to go ahead. Doha or Dubai are in the running to take that slam off Australia. For the F1 to happen there is no chance of HQ as there is less than 14 days between the previous round.

Australia needs to wake up and keep living once these events leave our shores they’re gone forever and it would be a shame. Time to open up otherwise stop wasting money on a pointless vaccination program.

[minigundiplomat]

Had my 1st jab last Friday in a clinic in FNQ, and they were doing a brisk trade. I had to sit around for 15 minutes afterwards and watched; there were 8 chairs in the waiting room and pretty much every time someone got up, someone new came in and sat down.

[lc_461]

Tennis players have said they’re not willing to do another round of HQ so are not willing to do that for the open to go ahead. Doha or Dubai are in the running to take that slam off Australia. For the F1 to happen there is no chance of HQ as there is less than 14 days between the previous round.

Australia needs to wake up and keep living once these events leave our shores they’re gone forever and it would be a shame. Time to open up otherwise stop wasting money on a pointless vaccination program.

These are the kind of things that need to happen to try and change public opinion... either in terms of increasing vaccination coverage or just reopening the border in general. If Joe and Jane Public's life starts to be affected in more of a way than missing out on their annual Bali holiday, we might start to see some good momentum.

[RodH]

In my local medical clinic it's the Dr. who gives the injection. Most other vaccinations are administered by nursing staff who are qualified.
The turn over of patients is quite quick so someone must be making quite a few dollars doing this simple task.
Maybe I'm a bit cynical but why only the Dr. and not the usual nurses? As a previous poster put it " maybe a money spinner " here!!
Anyway the quicker it's done the sooner we can get everyone vaccinated and try to return to some sort of normalcy.

[SHVC]

It is more efficient for a Dr to have a suitably qualified Nurse that can do it and not have a Dr supervise every injection, that being one that has completed an immunization course about 18hrs of study. A Nurse that has not completed it needs a Dr to supervise each injection therefore not efficient they may as well do it themself. Remember the Dr still has their regular patients that are seeing them for other more serious illness.
The vaccination program with a qualified Nurse is far more profitable for the Dr. A surgery that can do as little as 150 per week can be excess of $15,000 over 6months just for doing them.

[Foxxster]

I also understand the legal requirements around these new vaccines is different to normal flu and travel type vaccines. Simply because these are new and therefore the reactions of patients hasn’t been as well documented as other vaccines which have been around for years. So a doctor has to be around in case of adverse reactions. This is why your local chemist wharehouse isn’t doing them.

And money spinner. The AstraZeneca vaccine is being sold by them at cost. The Pfizer and others are not. I saw a table of the costs per vaccine and it was something like $10 for Astra and $30 for Pfizer. Multiply that by billions and … I might go get some Pfizer shares.

In initial deals with the U.S. government, Pfizer and BioNTech's vaccine costs $19.50 per dose, compared with $15 for Moderna's shot, $16 for Novavax's program, $10 for Johnson & Johnson's vaccine and $4 for AstraZeneca's.

The publication reports that Pfizer and BioNTech approached European officials seeking €54 per dose, or €27 billion for 500 million doses, last summer.While officials negotiated the price down to €15.50 per dose,


Cost is another inhibiting factor with Moderna's vaccine coming in at $37 per jab while Pfizer & BioNTech state theirs will cost around $20 per dose.. University of Oxford and AstraZeneca ..also significantly cheaper than its counterparts at just $4 per dose.

[morno]

I also understand the legal requirements around these new vaccines is different to normal flu and travel type vaccines. Simply because these are new and therefore the reactions of patients hasn’t been as well documented as other vaccines which have been around for years. So a doctor has to be around in case of adverse reactions. This is why your local chemist wharehouse isn’t doing them.

And money spinner. The AstraZeneca vaccine is being sold by them at cost. The Pfizer and others are not. I saw a table of the costs per vaccine and it was something like $10 for Astra and $30 for Pfizer. Multiply that by billions and … I might go get some Pfizer shares.

In initial deals with the U.S. government, Pfizer and BioNTech's vaccine costs $19.50 per dose, compared with $15 for Moderna's shot, $16 for Novavax's program, $10 for Johnson & Johnson's vaccine and $4 for AstraZeneca's.

The publication reports that Pfizer and BioNTech approached European officials seeking €54 per dose, or €27 billion for 500 million doses, last summer.While officials negotiated the price down to €15.50 per dose,


Cost is another inhibiting factor with Moderna's vaccine coming in at $37 per jab while Pfizer & BioNTech state theirs will cost around $20 per dose.. University of Oxford and AstraZeneca ..also significantly cheaper than its counterparts at just $4 per dose.

In covid clinics in Qld (at my local one anyway), run by Qld Health, the nurses administer it and there’s no doctor in the building.

[Foxxster]

In covid clinics in Qld (at my local one anyway), run by Qld Health, the nurses administer it and there’s no doctor in the building.
interesting.

because I definitely remember hearing that doctors have to be there. That is also why there is the mandatory 15 minute observation period after the vaccine. Oh, maybe ignore my post. Also see now they have taken expressions of interest from community pharmacies…

maybe due to the large numbers worldwide they have relaxed the requirements.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/doh-confirms-personal-attendance-not-needed-to-cla

[SHVC]

QLD health may be different, in NSW there has to be a Dr in the building or in the room depending on the Nurses qualifications.

[morno]

interesting.

because I definitely remember hearing that doctors have to be there. That is also why there is the mandatory 15 minute observation period after the vaccine. Oh, maybe ignore my post. Also see now they have taken expressions of interest from community pharmacies…

maybe due to the large numbers worldwide they have relaxed the requirements.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/doh-confirms-personal-attendance-not-needed-to-cla

There’s always at least one nurse immuniser present who is qualified in advanced life support. Having a doctor sitting around for the very rare occasion that they’d be required is a waste of money and their time.

[Foxxster]

Well everyone's favourite Premier Gladys has given the number of people she wants vaccinated in NSW before she'll open international borders:



NSW 9 million vaccines away from considering open (international) borders: Premier (https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-9-million-vaccines-away-from-considering-open-borders-premier-20210517-p57sku.html?ref=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss_feed)


well I have just heard that the total number of deaths she will accept is ZERO. This was in response to the CEO of Virgins comments saying we have to open up and accept that some people will die. You know like the flu every year… She, the CEO that is has been crucified all day for her insensitive comments.

so we can see where this is going or more accurately not going. International borders are going to remain firmly shut and any decision is going to err well and truely on the side of EXTREME caution. The state premiers and the PM have well and truly painted themselves into a very small corner.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9589943/Gladys-Berejiklian-hits-accused-agreeing-Virgin-Australia-boss.html

[Don Diego]

The desire to make a buck is what made those words pop out of her mouth (JH), no surprise there, as long as the cashier is busy she couldn’t care less. The template for a successful election is simple, you lot can carry on and bitch all you like but it is too late, the die has been cast.

[Agent_86]

The desire to make a buck is what made those words pop out of her mouth (JH), no surprise there, as long as the cashier is busy she couldn’t care less.

And the cashier is ready to pay out Ms Jayne and the rest of the Exec. Team to the tune of $42.4m to get things moving for the Business!

[Lookleft]

If its all about the money for JH then its all about the politics for the state premiers and the PM. The Tassie election has shown that anyone coming down hard on Covid border protections will win an election. If you want to know why the international borders are shut until October 22 then just look up when the next Federal election is due. JH and AJ want the borders open for their own self interest and the PM wants them closed for his, very simple logic

[601]

My partner got their second Pfizer jab this morning at the biggest hospital vaccine clinic in Qld. Four people were there. In other words it was dead.
Strange as a close friend (RN working for Qld Health testing quarantine staff) had to source and get her jab in her own time. Non was offered by Qld Health.

[Fonz121]

All QLD Health staff have received various emails telling them how they can get the jab.

[LapSap]

All QLD Health staff have received various emails telling them how they can get the jab.

Seems a rather nebulous sort of strategy?
Why not actively pursuing and facilitating them at their place of work???
I realize not all want it but isn’t the goal to try to get the vast majority done?
From my experience, sending staff numerous emails full of platitudes begging them to do something is doomed to fail.

[morno]

Because you can’t just rock up to anywhere and give them a jab (by Australian standards anyway). You need the facilities to keep the vaccines plus also if something goes wrong, you need the ability to treat a patient.

[aviation_enthus]

PS. I’ll admit to normally being on the opposite side of politics to Dr Dre and some others no doubt but I’m getting fed up with the Good Cop/Bad Cop routine that Morrison has been playing the past few months. Get rid of the supercilious cheesy grin Scott and start taking Federal responsibility instead of duck-shoving everything to everybody else.

Hear, Hear!!

I know deep down it won’t be enough, but I think public opinion is starting to swing more and more against the “Prime Minister of Announcements”. Even been some critical articles against the PM in News Ltd papers.

He’s had his chance to lead and has clearly shown he doesn’t have what it takes. The PM of our country should have the ability to guide the country and take the people with him. Not make regular empty announcements and govern by what the latest Newspoll tells him...

“A manager does what’s right”

“A leader does the right thing”.

[601]

He’s had his chance to lead and has clearly shown he doesn’t have what it takes.
By what standard do you make that call.
Against Trump, Boris, Biden, or the much touted European countries.
Last 7 Days Europe (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1139048/coronavirus-case-rates-in-the-past-7-days-in-europe-by-country/)

[Fuel-Off]

601, I see what you're trying to do there but allow me to show the numbers that actually matter.

This is the false equivalency that the Australian Government and to a certain extent the media, are constantly bashing into people's skulls: Cases = deaths, one for one. Cases are going up, but the deaths are way down now that the vaccines are seemingly living up to their promise - and that's with certain variants floating around. The EU is opening up to vaccinated tourists even to US citizens. The vaccine was never meant to eradicate virus but just to lessen the severity of the disease to something more manageable like the flu. Australia is on the wrong side of the drag curve with this one.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1408/coronavirus_data_explorer_d1cda81f64801e87039ea04277ab8e228e 21a85a.png
.

[Tucknroll]

601, I see what you're trying to do there but allow me to show the numbers that actually matter.

This is the false equivalency that the Australian Government and to a certain extent the media, are constantly bashing into people's skulls: Cases = deaths, one for one. Cases are going up, but the deaths are way down now that the vaccines are seemingly living up to their promise - and that's with certain variants floating around. The EU is opening up to vaccinated tourists even to US citizens. The vaccine was never meant to eradicate virus but just to lessen the severity of the disease to something more manageable like the flu. Australia is on the wrong side of the drag curve with this one.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1408/coronavirus_data_explorer_d1cda81f64801e87039ea04277ab8e228e 21a85a.png
.

First closed last open does have its advantages. The advantages just aren’t for the very small group involved in international operations.

[Fuel-Off]

Which advantages do you allude to? Australia's Covid free status is tenuous at best. Just look at Taiwan and Singapore the so called 'gold standard' of handling the pandemic are now experiencing spikes in infection with so-so vaccination programs. Do you really want to go into lockdown every time ONE single case breaks through? That's not sustainable and the economic recovery seems to be heavily reliant on a hotel quarantine system that can be best described as 'leaky'.

Fuel-Off :ok:

[aviation_enthus]

By what standard do you make that call.
Against Trump, Boris, Biden, or the much touted European countries.
Last 7 Days Europe (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1139048/coronavirus-case-rates-in-the-past-7-days-in-europe-by-country/)

Ok I’ll counter that with:

Show me a tough decision he’s made that went against public opinion at the time??

Closing the border doesn’t count. Public opinion clearly supported that back in March.

He constantly ducks and weaves any blame, makes regular announcements that have no real bearing, the decisions he does make are popular or follow public opinion (not lead it!).

Like I and others have said, a good leader should be able to make a decision and then bring the public with him. Scotty from marketing has never done that.

- how many travel bubbles has he announced?
- how many times has he announced something new to do with the vaccine?
- a large number of the new defence spending announcements were “already included in the $250B announced last year”

I could go on....

And don’t try and throw in the standard “look at the UK/USA” counter argument. The ONLY countries we should be comparing ourselves to is countries with similar geographic advantages (islands). The UK isn’t included in this list because they are so reliant and connected to the EU.
- Singapore
- Taiwan
- South Korea
- New Zealand
- Japan

How do we stack up against them?

[Tucknroll]

Which advantages do you allude to? Australia's Covid free status is tenuous at best. Just look at Taiwan and Singapore the so called 'gold standard' of handling the pandemic are now experiencing spikes in infection with so-so vaccination programs. Do you really want to go into lockdown every time ONE single case breaks through? That's not sustainable and the economic recovery seems to be heavily reliant on a hotel quarantine system that can be best described as 'leaky'.

Fuel-Off :ok:

i agree, that’s one of the advantages of delaying opening of borders, a near zero Covid infection rate in Australia. The vaccination rollout has been slow and poorly managed, but we shouldn’t be rushing to open until the rollout is completed.

Why? Aside from the obvious benefits of not having loads of sick and dead Australians, there is the massive comparative economic benefit:

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/oecd-ups-australia-s-growth-to-4-5pc-20210309-p57909

[ruprecht]

but we shouldn’t be rushing to open until the rollout is completed.

I would be interested in your definition of “completed”.

[ozbiggles]

Ok I’ll counter that with:

Show me a tough decision he’s made that went against public opinion at the time??

Closing the border doesn’t count. Public opinion clearly supported that back in March.

He constantly ducks and weaves any blame, makes regular announcements that have no real bearing, the decisions he does make are popular or follow public opinion (not lead it!).

Like I and others have said, a good leader should be able to make a decision and then bring the public with him. Scotty from marketing has never done that.

- how many travel bubbles has he announced?
- how many times has he announced something new to do with the vaccine?
- a large number of the new defence spending announcements were “already included in the $250B announced last year”

I could go on....

And don’t try and throw in the standard “look at the UK/USA” counter argument. The ONLY countries we should be comparing ourselves to is countries with similar geographic advantages (islands). The UK isn’t included in this list because they are so reliant and connected to the EU.
- Singapore
- Taiwan
- South Korea
- New Zealand
- Japan

How do we stack up against them?

OK then, I have nothing better to do - 7 day average new cases 19 May 21
Singapore - 39
Taiwan - 186
South Korea - 641
New Zealand - 2
Japan - 5,578

Australia - 6 ( no current local acquired cases)

I'm sure the age newspaper is missing you in the comments section. I'm not a Scomo fan, but he is the PM of a country that if it hasn't had the best response, it is in the top 5 so you are just going to have to sux it up.

I could go on.

[aviation_enthus]

OK then, I have nothing better to do - 7 day average new cases 19 May 21
Singapore - 39
Taiwan - 186
South Korea - 641
New Zealand - 2
Japan - 5,578

Australia - 6 ( no current local acquired cases)

I'm sure the age newspaper is missing you in the comments section. I'm not a Scomo fan, but he is the PM of a country that if it hasn't had the best response, it is in the top 5 so you are just going to have to sux it up.

I could go on.

The Age?! Hahaha yeah sure. Just because I don’t think Scomo has great job makes me left wing huh??

Its not just about cases either. What about the way the treat returning citizens? I’ll bet we are near the bottom of that list then.

Not one of those countries threatened jail time for citizens trying to get home.... If you can’t understand why that’s a really bad policy, I’m not going to argue with you here.

Vaccine rollout: (doses per 100)
- Singapore: 60 per 100
- South Korea: 9.7 per 100
- Australia: 13 per 100
- New Zealand: 9.6 per 100
- Japan: 6.0

Singapore is the clear standout there. But we are so far down the list, we are only surrounded by relatively poor countries. Pretty much every single other “Western” country is so far ahead it’s not funny. We are supposed to be producing 1M AZ doses a week plus the 100K+ Pfizer doses, yet we can only manage 400K actual vaccinations?!

We had “one of the best responses” because we are an island. NOT because of our illustrious leadership.

For reference Australia had one of the lowest rates of mortality back in 1919 as well. But I guess that was also down to amazing leadership right? Couldn’t be anything to do with geography....

[Foxxster]

Meanwhile in Queensland.

Setting a wonderful example. Utterly unbelievable. Staggering…

https://www.9news.com.au/videos/health/premier-cho-yet-to-receive-covid-vaccine/ckownhwui00230irwa6lb8skw

[Foxxster]

The Age?! Hahaha yeah sure. Just because I don’t think Scomo has great job makes me left wing huh??

Its not just about cases either. What about the way the treat returning citizens? I’ll bet we are near the bottom of that list then.

Not one of those countries threatened jail time for citizens trying to get home.... If you can’t understand why that’s a really bad policy, I’m not going to argue with you here.

Vaccine rollout: (doses per 100)
- Singapore: 60 per 100
- South Korea: 9.7 per 100
- Australia: 13 per 100
- New Zealand: 9.6 per 100
- Japan: 6.0

Singapore is the clear standout there. But we are so far down the list, we are only surrounded by relatively poor countries. Pretty much every single other “Western” country is so far ahead it’s not funny. We are supposed to be producing 1M AZ doses a week plus the 100K+ Pfizer doses, yet we can only manage 400K actual vaccinations?!

We had “one of the best responses” because we are an island. NOT because of our illustrious leadership.

For reference Australia had one of the lowest rates of mortality back in 1919 as well. But I guess that was also down to amazing leadership right? Couldn’t be anything to do with geography....


ok we get it, you hate the Liberals and particularly Morrison.

since WuHu flu started, over 500,000 people have returned. I think they have been treated pretty well, and not one jailed. The legislation to do so has been there for a while.. bad policy, well in extreme circumstances if you deliberately put other people’s lives in danger and cause a lockdown coatings billions then I think jail is the appropriate response. Again in extreme circumstances and again no one has been charged with this despite 500,000 people having returned . So perhaps stop your hyperventilating.

the vaccine rollout has not been successful to date but is ramping up. The issues surrounding the AstraZeneca vaccine and blood clots has certainly not helped, just ask the Qld premier and chief health officer (see link above) There were also supply issues. But even given that, things should have gone better. I guess all those poor little federal health public servants couldn’t cope having to actually do something for once in their lives.

but overall, I think the federal govt has done a reasonable job, compare it to other countries our case rates and death rates are substantially lower than comparable countries. Our economy is bouncing back.

let’s ask Albo what he would do…. Well um, I can’t really say. I mean you would have to look at each case individually. But whatever the government is doing is wrong.

[Clare Prop]

I went to one of the covid vax centres yesterday. It had taken hours on hold and eventually two days for someone to call me back to book a vaccination. When I got there there were about 500 empty plastic chairs and about 30 staff twiddling their thumbs. People getting vaccinated? Including me, about 5. A couple had walked in without appointments and were able to get vaccinated straight away, so I could have got it two weeks ago if I'd known that was an option.
If I'd waited for my GP I would have had to find a day when she is there, take half a day off work, been stuck in a waiting room for an hour or more. At the vaccination centre I was done and out the door including 15 minute wait after vax in less than 20 minutes.
If people won't get vaccinated for whatever reason they can't blame the government.

[aviation_enthus]

ok we get it, you hate the Liberals and particularly Morrison.

Why does any criticism of the PM automatically mean someone hates the Liberals? For the record I could not bring myself to vote for Bill Shorten, so the Liberals were the only other option. I was even happy to give Morrison a chance after Hawaii (I didn’t really think bushfire management was his job anyway). But since then he’s just got more disappointing. Like I said, too many announcements and not enough results.



since WuHu flu started, over 500,000 people have returned. I think they have been treated pretty well, and not one jailed. The legislation to do so has been there for a while.. bad policy, well in extreme circumstances if you deliberately put other people’s lives in danger and cause a lockdown coatings billions then I think jail is the appropriate response. Again in extreme circumstances and again no one So perhaps stop your hyperventilating.

Just because the legislation exists, doesn’t make it right or morally acceptable to use it. Any country on the planet has an obligation to its citizens. Allowing access is one obligation. By all means apply quarantine requirements, but jail time for trying to come home is morally wrong. When a whole bunch of conservative commentators also think it’s wrong (Bolt, Sky News, The Australian, etc) don’t you question what we’ve become as a country? What are we sacrificing in the name of “safety”? Even Bob Katter disagreed FFS!!


let’s ask Albo what he would do….

Probably similar things with the border (any shade of government should have done that), but I would hope Labor would have been better at the vaccine rollout. I would have thought they wouldn’t find jail to be a “good” health outcome either....

[Obba]

I'm fully vaccinated.
My Partner in the UK is fully vaccinated.
I hold a valid UK Passport and I can't fly to the UK to see her...!

She's UK and as it's a de-facto relationship, she is at the bottom of a very big pile to be exempted to fly here (been refused 5 times by Immi). Money for Quarantine never a problem – as all tests to be fulfilled – Nope!

This is a political game now. Next year elections will be Scotty saying "See how I saved you all, travel is now open, vote for me..."

I know a fair few people (me included), who have not seen family for over a year. We're not voting for him because we believe it's political now – yes a grudge vote!
These are real people with family and relationships being prevented by the Gov.

The Health Minster's power given under the Act which allows him to recommend to the government to stop Australians entering Australia was only given under the premise of 'An emergency inside Australia'.

Fail enough if there were a billion poisonous snakes roaming around. "Hey, we won't let you in until we sort out the snakes..."

There is no emergency in Australia. Therefore his (Health Minister's), power in this case is invalid...

It's actually illegal to say no to any Australian passport holder who wishes to enter his home land, under this Act.

[Cafe City]

Ok I’ll counter that with:

Show me a tough decision he’s made that went against public opinion at the time??

Closing the border doesn’t count. Public opinion clearly supported that back in March.

He constantly ducks and weaves any blame, makes regular announcements that have no real bearing, the decisions he does make are popular or follow public opinion (not lead it!).

Like I and others have said, a good leader should be able to make a decision and then bring the public with him. Scotty from marketing has never done that.

- how many travel bubbles has he announced?
- how many times has he announced something new to do with the vaccine?
- a large number of the new defence spending announcements were “already included in the $250B announced last year”

I could go on....

And don’t try and throw in the standard “look at the UK/USA” counter argument. The ONLY countries we should be comparing ourselves to is countries with similar geographic advantages (islands). The UK isn’t included in this list because they are so reliant and connected to the EU.
- Singapore
- Taiwan
- South Korea
- New Zealand
- Japan

How do we stack up against them?

Absolutely in agreement on the Feds abrogating their responsibilities.
Morrison is giving me the ****s now.
Look at the frigging mess we have now with the vaccine rollout and the lack of direction provided to the public. All this has played into the hands of the anti-vax mob who are gaining more and more seemingly sensible people into the conspiracy ranks.
What seems glaringly absent is any form of Govt advertising campaign to dispel all these myths and explain properly wtf is going on.
During the early days of HIV AIDS , there were concerted campaigns run on FTA TV to educate everybody on the truths and fiction of how it was contracted.
I know we’re in the IT age now where people obtain their ‘advice’ from multiple sources but surely the Govt should be running something on TV to counter the absolute morons like the hairdresser on the Gold Coast and her whacky followers.

[brokenagain]

It doesn’t help that the major news organisations in this country announce with great hoopla and flashing red ‘Breaking News’ headlines every time someone has an adverse reaction to the vaccines.

Fear porn = clicks = more revenue.

[Dannyboy39]

More naval gazing from Morrison today. “But, but, but, U.K.!!”

I was in London for the last two days for the first time since 2019. The place is definitely showing signs of getting back to some sort of normality. Whereas before the transport hubs were at like 200% of capacity, right now it’s around 50% but a lot of people now fully vaccinated and a lot of young people wanting to get on with their lives. The pubs are full with restrictions but museums and tourist attractions reopened this week and it felt like a really big reopening. In 1 months time, in theory stadiums can reopen at 100% capacity.

For how much longer can the Au government look down on “countries like the U.K.” and say we’re better than you?

[SOPS]

More naval gazing from Morrison today. “But, but, but, U.K.!!”

I was in London for the last two days for the first time since 2019. The place is definitely showing signs of getting back to some sort of normality. Whereas before the transport hubs were at like 200% of capacity, right now it’s around 50% but a lot of people now fully vaccinated and a lot of young people wanting to get on with their lives. The pubs are full with restrictions but museums and tourist attractions reopened this week and it felt like a really big reopening. In 1 months time, in theory stadiums can reopen at 100% capacity.

For how much longer can the Au government look down on “countries like the U.K.” and say we’re better than you?
Let’s wait and see how you go when all the people come back from those Amber destinations that the “need” to holiday in. And how is that outbreak of the Indian variant going?

[Dannyboy39]

Let’s wait and see how you go when all the people come back from those Amber destinations that the “need” to holiday in. And how is that outbreak of the Indian variant going?
Well at some point international travel needs to reopen. An amber country means that you have to home quarantine for 10 days upon return. As for case numbers, it has been flat for quite a few weeks now. 0.003% of tests done right now are positive.

[brokenagain]

And how is that outbreak of the Indian variant going?

Worldometer (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/)

Dropping pretty sharply.

[601]

Just because the legislation exists, doesn’t make it right or morally acceptable to use it. Any country on the planet has an obligation to its citizens. Allowing access is one obligation. By all means apply quarantine requirements, but jail time for trying to come home is morally wrong. When a whole bunch of conservative commentators also think it’s wrong (Bolt, Sky News, The Australian, etc) don’t you question what we’ve become as a country? What are we sacrificing in the name of “safety”? Even Bob Katter disagreed FFS!!
There was NO ban on people coming from India. There was a ban on flights from India. If you left India and quarantined in a third country for 14 days you could then enter Australia, as the cricketers did.
The ban also had a cutoff date.
The penalty for breaching a direction under the bio-security act has been there since 2011.

How do we stack up against them?

How about we pick a comparable democratic and cultural alike country like Canada.
Canada (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/canada/) Total Cases 1,352,121 Total Deaths 25,162 Active cases 57,970 Total/Mil 35,549 Death/Mil 662 Population 38,035,132 (https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/canada-population/)
Australia (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/) Total Cases 30,003 Total Deaths 910 Active Cases 106 Total/Mil 1,165 Death/Mil 35 Population 25,761,598 (https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/australia-population/)

I was in London for the last two days for the first time since 2019. The place is definitely showing signs of getting back to some sort of normality. Whereas before the transport hubs were at like 200% of capacity, right now it’s around 50% but a lot of people now fully vaccinated and a lot of young people wanting to get on with their lives. The pubs are full with restrictions but museums and tourist attractions reopened this week and it felt like a really big reopening. In 1 months time, in theory stadiums can reopen at 100% capacity.
For how much longer can the Au government look down on “countries like the U.K.” and say we’re better than you?

Well I and all my friends have been able to go about our daily business and getting on with their lives since August last year.

Dropping pretty sharply.
Did you actually check the daily new cases?
Still bouncing around above 250,000. There is no sharp drop, only a "flattening of the curve"

[aviation_enthus]

There was NO ban on people coming from India. There was a ban on flights from India. If you left India and quarantined in a third country for 14 days you could then enter Australia, as the cricketers did.
The ban also had a cutoff date.
The penalty for breaching a direction under the bio-security act has been there since 2011.


No ban?? How do you explain the PM clearly threatening jail time for arriving citizens that been in India in the last 14 days?

That my friend is a ban. Jail time for citizens was also a threat NO OTHER country made against its own citizens.

Not everyone has the cash to stay in a tropical resort for 14 days. On top of this, would you believe a large majority of countries have restrictions on non-citizens entering their country? This means there’s only a handful of choices to spend your 14 days waiting to avoid jail. Plus on top of this you’d probably need an extra flight to get there. AND be at the mercy of short notice restrictions being applied while you are in transit. Risking you being stranded. Again.

I don’t care if it had a cutoff date, it should have never been applied in the first place.

[bekolblockage]

Well I and all my friends have been able to go about our daily business and getting on with their lives since August last year.



Well lucky you and your friends and your insular little lives.

I worked overseas but regularly (read weekly!) came back and forth to Australia to see my immediate family and parents until March last year.
My career got thrown in the bin without the ability to do that. I would have been ok to reduce that to maybe once every 3 months. Idid manage to go back for one 6 month stint but after very nearly being refused to leave the country by an overzealous BF goon, even tho I had a copy of my work contract with me and owned my own flat overseas and resided there for over 20 years, it became evident I wasn’t even going to be permitted to see them once a year.

Carry on sipping your lattes with your friends.

[Dannyboy39]

Well I and all my friends have been able to go about our daily business and getting on with their lives since August last year."

I'm delighted to hear it... let me just get into my time machine.

[Dannyboy39]

That my friend is a ban. Jail time for citizens was also a threat NO OTHER country made against its own citizens.
The UK has been threatening £10,000 fines and up to 10 years in prison for the worst "offenders". Like in Australia, it is an empty threat.

[Troo believer]

What most of us on this forum have been saying for months is get vaccinated as soon as you can or face the consequences. When, not if, the virus breaks out once again you’d better be vaccinated. Apparently since the 4 cases have been found in Melbourne, people are booking in large numbers to get vaccinated. For those that think fortress Australia is the way to manage our way out of this. Ask yourselves how long are you prepared to wait? How long before we can enjoy some semblance of normality. How long will you have to wait or are prepared to wait to once again get in the flight deck and do what you aspired to do from day one? Ostriches are flightless birds. Don’t become one too.

I was talking with a crew that just returned from LAX last week. Tom Bradley terminal was packed, just like it was pre COVID. Masks on, people travelling, except of cause to Australia.

Four Corners tonight just articulated this perfectly.

https://youtu.be/22qHFXNI0mo

[aviation_enthus]

What most of us on this forum have been saying for months is get vaccinated as soon as you can or face the consequences. When, not if, the virus breaks out once again you’d better be vaccinated. Apparently since the 4 cases have been found in Melbourne, people are booking in large numbers to get vaccinated. For those that think fortress Australia is the way to manage our way out of this. Ask yourselves how long are you prepared to wait? How long before we can enjoy some semblance of normality. How long will you have to wait or are prepared to wait to once again get in the flight deck and do what you aspired to do from day one? Ostriches are flightless birds. Don’t become one too.

I was talking with a crew that just returned from LAX last week. Tom Bradley terminal was packed, just like it was pre COVID. Masks on, people travelling, except of cause to Australia.

Four Corners tonight just articulated this perfectly.

https://youtu.be/22qHFXNI0mo

Standby for the “don’t need to go overseas anyway, just explore Australia” style comment..... 🙄

The comment sections of anything online are filled with exactly this sort of thing. The general public don’t care mate!!

I agree with you though. Australians need to get on with it and they should be making a bigger issue out of the fact it’s taking so bloody long!! Not even for travel reasons, look at Taiwan. Another large outbreak is simply a matter of time.

We travelled to the USA recently and plan on heading to Europe this (northern) summer. As vaccinated travellers mind you.

PS I’m not stuck in “fortress Aus”, before the rest of you worry about me bringing it back...

[SOPS]

I’m thinking ... here go the borders again.

[jrfsp]

I’m thinking ... here go the borders again.

All states have been very measured in their response lately...including WA - but it will depend on VICs ability to contain the spread......

The problem is, even with open borders, the restrictions on masks, large events, work meetings etc etc will put a large number of people off travelling anyway

[flyhigh787]

Too many resurgence recently in many countries and even with vaccination, people are still getting infected... Hopefully things get better soon.

[Transition Layer]

Too many resurgence recently in many countries and even with vaccination, people are still getting infected... Hopefully things get better soon.

Vaccines don’t stop infection, they stop you dying.

Seatbelts don’t stop car accidents, they stop you dying.

[flyhigh787]

Vaccines don’t stop infection, they stop you dying.

Seatbelts don’t stop car accidents, they stop you dying.

Thats right. However the general reaction in 2020 was that the virus will go away once vaccines are out but now its a different story.

[ruprecht]

Thats right. However the general reaction in 2020 was that the virus will go away once vaccines are out but now its a different story.

reaction or expectation? It has been known for a while now that the vaccines prevent severe illness and death. The focus will need to move from cases to death/illness once more people are vaccinated.

[halfmoon]

The future of australia...rolling lockdowns, cancelled bubbles, curfews, border closures, tracking apps, quarantine, separated families, hermit state.

[ozbiggles]

The future of australia...rolling lockdowns, cancelled bubbles, curfews, border closures, tracking apps, quarantine, separated families, hermit state.

The future of Australia...low Covid death rate, good economy, low unemployment mostly open domestic borders and freedom of movement and responsible measures to ensure it continues. If you are really in the USA it just makes your comments even more ridiculous.

[LostWanderer]

The future of Australia...low Covid death rate, good economy, low unemployment mostly open domestic borders and freedom of movement and responsible measures to ensure it continues. If you are really in the USA it just makes your comments even more ridiculous.

Is this for real? Assuming this isn't an utterly sarcastic response...First part is correct on death rate, the rest I'd love to know your evidence? We are going to be in trouble if this country doesn't open up soon. Only so much money and so many jobs will be created from domestic tourism, and I can assure you that is far from what it once was right now. Who wants to fly when there could be a city/state lockdown at a moments notice? Absolutely some are and good for them, but certainly no one I know wants to plan a holiday even 2 weeks down the road and find they are locked down for that time away or can't get home - as some unlucky SA folk are discovering right about now.

Unfortunately Halfmoon nailed it. We are in for some bad times if this goes on into mid-late 2022 or even early 2023 as some have predicted. The economy isn't as rosy as you may like to think, we have had it good for too long...And this is all assuming China doesn't get any more aggressive with their currently increasing anti-Australia rhetoric. A closed country and even a partially crippled export industry ain't gonna be pretty my friend.

[dysslexicgod]

I assume everyone here is vaccinated or is going to be ASAP?

I would also query that if this virus killed twenty somethings and thirty somethings as efficiently as it kills 80 year olds, would the preservation of airline careers still be a priority for you?

[dysslexicgod]

Lost Wanderer: We are going to be in trouble if this country doesn't open up soon. Only so much money and so many jobs will be created from domestic tourism, and I can assure you that is far from what it once was right now.

I beg to differ. The economy is elastic and smart parts of it are already well advanced in rebuilding themselves to prosper in the new normal. Wishing for a return to "the old days" (AKA 2019) is pointless and a waste of your valuable time. It isn't going to happen EVER because many changes are permanent.

Australians spent upwards of $60 billion annually overseas before COVID. That money is now deployed locally, which you would know if you have tried booking a domestic holiday.

[Troo believer]

Lost Wanderer:

I beg to differ. The economy is elastic and smart parts of it are already well advanced in rebuilding themselves to prosper in the new normal. Wishing for a return to "the old days" (AKA 2019) is pointless and a waste of your valuable time. It isn't going to happen EVER because many changes are permanent.

Australians spent upwards of $60 billion annually overseas before COVID. That money is now deployed locally, which you would know if you have tried booking a domestic holiday.


Join date April 2021. What skin in the game do you have? None I expect. Another troll pushing their ignorant point of view.

Inbound and outbound passenger numbers from Australia have dropped from about 900,000/ month to about 40,000 per month. Since March last year there have been more people leaving than arriving by about 10,000/month. The only reason the economy is growing at the moment is due to a massive government injection. Deficit. Take it away and watch what happens. It’s a fools paradise and not sustainable. If you’re not involved in aviation go somewhere else. If indeed you are involved in aviation, what possible reason do you have for preventing international travel? We’d love to know.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-resilience-ranking/

[ozbiggles]

Join date April 2021. What skin in the game do you have? None I expect. Another troll pushing their ignorant point of view.

Inbound and outbound passenger numbers from Australia have dropped from about 900,000/ month to about 40,000 per month. Since March last year there have been more people leaving than arriving by about 10,000/month. The only reason the economy is growing at the moment is due to a massive government injection. Deficit. Take it away and watch what happens. It’s a fools paradise and not sustainable. If you’re not involved in aviation go somewhere else. If indeed you are involved in aviation, what possible reason do you have for preventing international travel? We’d love to know.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-resilience-ranking/

So if people don't agree with you Troo they should go somewhere else? Bad luck.

It is possible for people to think beyond their own circumstances and think of the big picture.

Even some pilots believe the international travel should be prevented to areas where it is not safe to do so. I'm one of them.

All things considered the economy is doing OK considering it had to take on a 1 in a hundred year event. Now comes the repair so it can be ready for the next unknown unknown.

Check out Taiwan's present circumstances if you want to know what happens with your course of action.

[Troo believer]

So if people don't agree with you Troo they should go somewhere else? Bad luck.

It is possible for people to think beyond their own circumstances and think of the big picture.

Even some pilots believe the international travel should be prevented to areas where it is not safe to do so. I'm one of them.

All things considered the economy is doing OK considering it had to take on a 1 in a hundred year event. Now comes the repair so it can be ready for the next unknown unknown.

Check out Taiwan's present circumstances if you want to know what happens with your course of action.

And what’s that? Look at Taiwan’s vaccination rate? Click on the link from my previous post. Here it is for you. Note the vaccination rate for Taiwan.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1274/a6f6ded3_76f4_4eff_9570_1fe6cbdde05d_814780e0562a0d1d40df0fc f873948f55aa0d8c0.jpeg
I never said open the border without restrictions either but reading the rhetoric from the likes of you and others that pluck crap out of thin air in order to shock for their own gain is quite frankly piss poor. Stick to facts. Pilots are meant to be intelligent but I’m having my doubts with the few morons pushing an agenda that’s not sustainable on this thread. Lock the borders until when? When COVID is eradicated world wide? Is that your solution?

[ozbiggles]

And note the resilience score for Australia with it's current rules set?

I'll give you some time to pick up your dummy.

[aviation_enthus]

Check out Taiwan's present circumstances if you want to know what happens with your course of action.

Not sure a comparison with Taiwan is useful to your argument....
- island
- quarantine restrictions on arrival
- democracy
​​​​​​- reasonable health system
Seems pretty similar to Australia to be honest, oh and they even have a more pathetic vaccine roll out than we do!! Never thought I’d say that, but there you go...

If you really want to use Taiwan, it’s a perfect example of what could happen in Australia. An outbreak in a largely unvaccinated population.... Ring any bells???

[ozbiggles]

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

AE, That's the exact point I'm trying to make to those who are saying throw open the borders so pilots may fly international beyond the current green zone.

Taiwan is in the middle of an out break with a 7 day average of new cases over 400 (sorry if those facts are a bit shocking to you Troo). The leading suspect for how it got into the country and spread....airline pilots who only have to do 3 days in isolation.

https://www.traveller.com.au/taiwan-grounds-china-airlines-after-covid19-outbreak-among-pilots-h1vr9j

[Troo believer]

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

AE, That's the exact point I'm trying to make to those who are saying throw open the borders so pilots may fly international beyond the current green zone.

Taiwan is in the middle of an out break with a 7 day average of new cases over 400 (sorry if those facts are a bit shocking to you Troo). The leading suspect for how it got into the country and spread....airline pilots who only have to do 3 days in isolation.

https://www.traveller.com.au/taiwan-grounds-china-airlines-after-covid19-outbreak-among-pilots-h1vr9j

So tell us then what quarantine requirements does the New Zealand government require of its returning aircrew? Do you even know?

None from Asia and two days and a negative pcr if returning from the USA (designated high risk). Did the crew from Taiwan practice quarantine whilst away overseas ? We do as do the Kiwis yet they have sfa quarantine and we have 14 days. What happens if a returning Kiwi crew member comes back positive? No quarantine, roaming around infectious and low and behold COVID into Australia via the back door from NZ and yet they’ve just locked out Victorians from travel. Wrong again mate but keep trying.

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/201224_requirements_nz_based_air_crew_final_interim.pdf

[blubak]

So if people don't agree with you Troo they should go somewhere else? Bad luck.

It is possible for people to think beyond their own circumstances and think of the big picture.

Even some pilots believe the international travel should be prevented to areas where it is not safe to do so. I'm one of them.

All things considered the economy is doing OK considering it had to take on a 1 in a hundred year event. Now comes the repair so it can be ready for the next unknown unknown.

Check out Taiwan's present circumstances if you want to know what happens with your course of action.
Agreed the economy is doing ok & probably not a good idea to fly to unsafe areas & as far as people needing to think beyond their own circumstances HOW TRUE.
We have idiots here in victoria using public transport & not wearing a mask,we have others such as a mature couple i saw a couple of weeks ago going into a pub/bistro & when told to register their response was 'oh,do we have to' & then yesterday a drive show host mocking the new mask restrictions by telling people if they were at a wedding to just walk around with a glass of champagne & then a mask is not required.
What hope have we got with ignorant selfish people amongst us.

[dysslexicgod]

Troo Believer, I understand your pain at your loss. However you are stuck up that river in Egypt - denial.

‘’You can open all borders if you like, but nobody here is interested in outbound tourism because we can’t get travel/health insurance for Covid - yet.

‘’Inbound tourism is not practical either until we can demonstrate the level of infection control necessary to protect our population.

‘’That means nobody is going to spend disposable income on international travel, some of that money is redirected into the domestic economy. Domestic tourism is thriving. I know that from personal observations.

Face it, what we had is gone and it’s never coming back. Something new is going to take its place. You can spend your energy two ways; pining about what you lost or building your new future. Your choice.

[brokenagain]

Meanwhile, 50% of all American adults have received their first doses. Fortress Australia is going to be left behind the rest of the western world over the next 6 months.

[Cirressna]

Face it, what we had is gone and it’s never coming back. Something new is going to take its place. You can spend your energy two ways; pining about what you lost or building your new future. Your choice.

This kind of 'fortress' rhetoric is old, dangerous and needs to start to be called out more often. It's this style of talk that is responsible for the predicament we are in now re vaccines and hesitancy. You'll find it in the comments of any news article/facebook post related to borders or aussie covid. Usually baby boomer and white (yes, important because you have little/no family overseas - o/s travel isn't just holidays). Just the small scare down in Vic has driver vaccine rates through the roof so the tides are changing. From personal experience, everyone we know has done their token domestic holiday and is now dumping their savings in the offset for an o/s trip when borders open.

I constantly see alarmist rebuttles to any border argument 'WELL DO YOU WANT TO END UP LIKE INDIA?!!' or my favourite 'ONE WORD, INDIA.'
We're not a third world country the size of QLD with 1.35 billion people crammed in. End of story.

Let's keep it really simple, not like the old capt's briefs
Let's call up to the vaccine rollout 'Phase 1' and the part we are in now vaccinating, 'Phase 2'
Let's compare to to our big friends the US/UK whom we share a lot with culturally.

USA/UK
Phase 1 = bad
Phase 2 = good

AU/NZ
Phase 1 = good
Phase 2 = bad

And note the resilience score for Australia with it's current rules set? I'll give you some time to pick up your dummy.

This reference to how we did in Phase 1 is no longer relevant, it's done, dusted, finito. We need to move forward onto phase 2.

The vaccines have now been proven against all variants (including the more contagious NOT more deadly Indian variant).
Like a few others have said, once the vaccine rollout hits that golden number, we need to stop counting cases. The world will open again - here's a fun experiment, go to flightradar24 on global view and filter to show any aircraft 767 or larger. You may be surprised.

[dysslexicgod]

Cirruscessna: This kind of 'fortress' rhetoric is old, dangerous and needs to start to be called out more often. It's this style of talk that is responsible for the predicament we are in now re vaccines and hesitancy. You'll find it in the comments of any news article/facebook post related to borders or aussie covid. Usually baby boomer and white (yes, importantant because you have little/no family overseas - o/s travel isn't just holidays). Just the small scare down in Vic has driver vaccine rates through the roof so the tides are changing. From personal experience, everyone we know has done their token domestic holiday and is now dumping their savings in the offset for an o/s trip when borders open.


.....We who have actually been taught and practiced business strategy know that the smartest and safest way to deal with potential change is to engage with it. The dumbest, stupidest, response to potential change is to put your fingers in your ears and scream "make it go away!". Yet that is what I see so many doing right here.....

It is obvious that for now the days of mass international travel are finished, at least for the time being, until we can solve the problem of preventing infection of our populations with Covid 19. The main vector for Covid 19 as far as Australia is concerned is international air travel. That means you and your employer. In equity fairness and natural justice, that means your career and profitability, despite what Virgins CEO may believe, are of no account at all compared to the life of an octogenarian in a nursing home. Zip, nada, nothing. YOU are the problem.

Instead of whining about boomers and white males and pining for the past, you might like to contribute to solutions based on a few general observations...

- The days of hubbing through places like Dubai where you can rub shoulders for a few hours with the creme de la creme of Africa, the Middle East and Asia on your way to Europe are gone until you and your fellow travellers possess ironclad protection against Covid.

- The days of using an A380 are similarly numbered for the above reason.

- At present, there is no travel insurance available that covers Covid, let alone excess hospital capacity for non citizens in the rest of the world.

- While health passports will need to be reinstated, their integrity is currently problematic.

- Present solutions in place in Europe and the USA do not necessarily translate to Australia since their risk profiles are different thanks to land borders,, etc.

-Solutions we might adopt may be too expensive or inappropriate for developing countries.

You might like to think about the above instead of just screaming "make it go away!"

[Foxxster]

Meanwhile, 50% of all American adults have received their first doses. Fortress Australia is going to be left behind the rest of the western world over the next 6 months.


we are progressing well despite a pretty poor start. With the arrival of large numbers of Pfizer vaccine, the mass vaccine centres and the 40+ age group now allowed, the rate will continue to accelerate.
Doesn’t help when you have a certain premier and their chief health officer both as yet unvaccinated and being in the over 50 age group,should have received the AstraZeneca vaccine but have stated they don’t want that one , only the Pfizer.

oh, and I did try and warn people but was shouted down, So I will repeat what I said, both the head of retail at Sydney airport and also Deloitte partner Chris Richardson have stated numbers of international travellers won’t return to what is was for at least two years.

For Australia, some form of quarantine will remain for some incoming travellers for some time," Deloitte partner Chris Richardson wrote.
"That keeps international travel (both inbound and outbound) pretty weak in 2022, and it may not return to pre-pandemic levels until 2024."
Much of Mr Richardson's forecasts rely on the speed of Australia's COVID-19 vaccination rollout, which he predicts to overtake that of the virus mutating.
"Central to the speed of that grind will be the ongoing tug-of-war between mutations and vaccinations," he wrote.
"But we continue to see vaccinations as the more likely winner of that struggle.
"So although some pain will linger – particularly as the mutations mean international borders will remain less-than-fully open for longer – most of Australia's economy looks on course to be close to pre-pandemic normal by Christmas 2021."


listen to these people…

3.61 million vaccines so far..

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=OWID_WRL

[ruprecht]

- The days of hubbing through places like Dubai where you can rub shoulders for a few hours with the creme de la creme of Africa, the Middle East and Asia on your way to Europe are gone until you and your fellow travellers possess ironclad protection against Covid.

Ironclad protection? Do you mean zero risk?

Good luck waiting for that…

[minigundiplomat]

That means you and your employer. In equity fairness and natural justice, that means your career and profitability, despite what Virgins CEO may believe, are of no account at all compared to the life of an octogenarian in a nursing home. Zip, nada, nothing. YOU are the problem.

'kay - stop with the bold font, you're coming across as a Herald Sun reader. All of us are going to die - every last one of us, especially octogenarian's, who will probably die sooner.... that's not an opinion, its a scientific fact (not some projection from a CMO). We're all going to die, regardless of COVID or any mutant turtle strain so can we stop pretending we are all going to live forever if we keep the borders closed?

[ozbiggles]

'kay - stop with the bold font, you're coming across as a Herald Sun reader. All of us are going to die - every last one of us, especially octogenarian's, who will probably die sooner.... that's not an opinion, its a scientific fact (not some projection from a CMO). We're all going to die, regardless of COVID or any mutant turtle strain so can we stop pretending we are all going to live forever if we keep the borders closed?

Yep, lets all start drinking more, driving faster, take more drugs and breaking more rules because we are all going to die sometime....that is your projection, not some CMO which you seem to think you are smarter than. Aviation (to come back a little closer to topic) is all about risk mitigation. Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead doesn't work in a Pandemic.

[ruprecht]

Yep, lets all start drinking more, driving faster, take more drugs and breaking more rules because we are all going to die sometime....

Sounds like a good weekend :p

[Bend alot]

Lots of the folk in favor of logging a few more hours early on in this event wanted to believe all sorts of numbers.

Back then they were saying how well life in Sweden was, and their action was the role model for all to follow.

Those voices are still loud, but sing a different song. The - Lets log hours now song just vax.

[ozbiggles]

Sounds like a good weekend :p

Well I haven't been subject to a ramp test since March last year so there have been some benefits.

[jrfsp]

Ah well looks like SA has caved first, i wouldnt be surprised if the other states, bar NSW follow suit

[SOPS]

With SA gone, I am sure WA won’t be far behind.

[Troo believer]

Yep, lets all start drinking more, driving faster, take more drugs and breaking more rules because we are all going to die sometime....that is your projection, not some CMO which you seem to think you are smarter than. Aviation (to come back a little closer to topic) is all about risk mitigation. Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead doesn't work in a Pandemic.

We are still waiting for your response to the question about Taiwan and its quarantine requirements for aircrew. You are wrong and know it but continue on with the lockdown narrative without any thought of the future. You didn’t address the comparison posted with respect to NZ crew and their own quarantine requirements. You’re basically full of sh*t just like a few others here. Patronising opinionated but with no facts to back up your arguments except generalisations based on nothing more than crap.

At some point in the near future, whether it be this year or next, the government will start relaxing quarantine restrictions once herd immunity is achieved. Contracting COVID will be relatively common. It’s inevitable but for some they’re **** scared, hence the diatribe about keeping the fortress intact for their own selfish reasons. Good luck with that. You either adapt to the new paradigm or find another island.

[ozbiggles]

We are still waiting for your response to the question about Taiwan and its quarantine requirements for aircrew. You are wrong and know it but continue on with the lockdown narrative without any thought of the future. You didn’t address the comparison posted with respect to NZ crew and their own quarantine requirements. You’re basically full of sh*t just like a few others here. Patronising opinionated but with no facts to back up your arguments except generalisations based on nothing more than crap.

At some point in the near future, whether it be this year or next, the government will start relaxing quarantine restrictions once herd immunity is achieved. Contracting COVID will be relatively common. It’s inevitable but for some they’re **** scared, hence the diatribe about keeping the fortress intact for their own selfish reasons. Good luck with that. You either adapt to the new paradigm or find another island.

I see you are still looking for your dummy!

[blubak]

Ah well looks like SA has caved first, i wouldnt be surprised if the other states, bar NSW follow suit
The original case came from SA hotel quarantine so im guessing the media will get stuck into Marshall just like they would into Andrews if it was a case escaping from Vic hotel quarantine,im guessing no chance.

[Green.Dot]

The original case came from SA hotel quarantine so im guessing the media will get stuck into Marshall just like they would into Andrews if it was a case escaping from Vic hotel quarantine,im guessing no chance.

I hope so. Only good bit of the latest outbreak in Melbourne is not seeing DAs smug face on TV.

[Troo believer]

I see you are still looking for your dummy!

Still waiting for your response. You threw the grenade mate not me. Back it up with the infinite wisdom you apparently possess. Come on what have you got? Back it up. I have. No dummy spit but I see you have your foot planted deeply in your mouth. Waiting waiting waiting.

Ozbiggles seriously
Fake news. Bull**** science. Flawed logic. False information.

[aviation_enthus]

The original case came from SA hotel quarantine so im guessing the media will get stuck into Marshall just like they would into Andrews if it was a case escaping from Vic hotel quarantine,im guessing no chance.

No chance!

Why would they when the “original case” arrived in Victoria back on the 4th May. He even got tested on May 10th after developing symptoms. So since then it’s been a Victorian problem. It’ll be a Victorian failure when their contact tracing is unable to keep up as well!!

How many chances has Victoria had to prove their incompetence? Plenty so far.

[aviation_enthus]

Just to put another rumour to bed....

You CAN get travel insurance right now, even with COVID coverage. Despite what some of you keep insisting, a quick google search shows:

Not only do airlines offer it as part of the ticket!!
- Emirates
- Fly Dubai

Insurers:
- AIG
- staysure
​​​​​​- AXA (with 20% discount if you’re vaccinated)

That was what I found in a quick 30 sec Google search.

If you take your head out of the sand, the rest of the world is actually trying to find a way forward. We will be left behind with the current “zero risk” approach. Nothing in life is “zero risk”.

[Troo believer]

Just to put another rumour to bed....

You CAN get travel insurance right now, even with COVID coverage. Despite what some of you keep insisting, a quick google search shows:

Not only do airlines offer it as part of the ticket!!
- Emirates
- Fly Dubai

Insurers:
- AIG
- staysure
​​​​​​- AXA (with 20% discount if you’re vaccinated)

That was what I found in a quick 30 sec Google search.

If you take your head out of the sand, the rest of the world is actually trying to find a way forward. We will be left behind with the current “zero risk” approach. Nothing in life is “zero risk”.

Nice work.

So Ozbiggles and Dyslexicod have both been discredited by a little research and a strong bull**** meter. Credibility ZERO.

[dysslexicgod]

From the Good2Go travel insurance website: If you are purchasing a new Domestic Travel Insurance policy on or after 25 November 2020, the following is a summary of what is covered and not covered for COVID-19.

Due to the widespread media reports on COVID-19, and the World Health Organization (WHO) announcement declaring COVID-19 a pandemic, COVID-19 is a foreseen or known event. Therefore, subject to the paragraph below, any losses for trip cancellation, trip delay and/or additional expenses caused by or due to COVID-19 are not considered unexpected, unknown and/or unforeseeable, and will not be covered under the terms and conditions of all Leisure Travel Insurance policies underwritten by AIG Australia Limited.

However, if you are diagnosed with COVID-19 after the purchase of an individual Leisure Travel Insurance policy and such diagnosis is made prior to departure, you will be covered for trip cancellation, provided you have a valid, confirmed and documented diagnosis at the time of departure. If you are diagnosed with COVID-19 while on a covered trip, you will be covered for additional expenses, provided you have a valid, confirmed and documented diagnosis and provided your trip was not in conflict with any state, territory, federal government or health authority travel advisory, restrictions or warnings. However, such coverage is always subject to you meeting all other terms and conditions of your policy........

..and similar from the medibank travel insurance website: "

We don’t provide cover for

If the government bans travel to the country or part of the country you are travelling to before or during your trip, such as through “Do Not Travel” warnings.
Government directed border closures.
Some benefits are not covered if your trip includes a multi-night cruise.
Mandatory quarantine or self-isolation requirements related to cross border, area, region or territory travel."



Troo believer and Aviation Enthusiast, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

None of you know about "fine print" do you? Didn't think so.

As I said earlier, if Covid19 killed 20 somethings and thirty somethings like you, and not your parents and grandparents, you would be screaming from the rooftops for total lockdown.

You will have to wait for your inheritance a little longer my friend.

[Bend alot]

Just to put another rumour to bed....

You CAN get travel insurance right now, even with COVID coverage. Despite what some of you keep insisting, a quick google search shows:

Not only do airlines offer it as part of the ticket!!
- Emirates
- Fly Dubai

Insurers:
- AIG
- staysure
​​​​​​- AXA (with 20% discount if you’re vaccinated)

That was what I found in a quick 30 sec Google search.

If you take your head out of the sand, the rest of the world is actually trying to find a way forward. We will be left behind with the current “zero risk” approach. Nothing in life is “zero risk”.


You can get Croc Insurance in the NT.

https://www.traveller.com.au/covid19-travel-insurance-insurers-offering-cover-for-coronavirus-but-not-border-closures-h1v1rc

[aviation_enthus]

From the Good2Go travel insurance website:

Troo believer and Aviation Enthusiast, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

None of you know about "fine print" do you? Didn't think so.

As I said earlier, if Covid19 killed 20 somethings and thirty somethings like you, and not your parents and grandparents, you would be screaming from the rooftops for total lockdown.

You will have to wait for your inheritance a little longer my friend.

Great, you found a couple of Australian travel insurers that don’t cover COVID. Completely ignored the facts (and companies) I referenced to prove otherwise.

Besides that, why would ANY Australian travel insurer even bother offering COVID coverage when Australians are banned from travelling overseas??


Want fine print???
(From the Emirates INCLUDED travel insurance)

What you are covered for:
We will pay up to the amount shown in the table of benefits for the necessary and reasonable costs as a result of You becoming ill (including due to any Epidemic or Pandemic), being injured or dying during Your Trip.

https://www.emirates.com/ae/english/before-you-fly/multi-risk-travel-insurance/

https://c.ekstatic.net/ecl/documents/before-you-fly/multi-risk-travel-insurance-policy.pdf?h=iXnWg1w5AXks7Yecg7Fk1Q

Oh and I’m perfectly happy to wait for my inheritance.... Trying to point out some common sense seems to require more patience though!

[Bend alot]

Great, you found a couple of Australian travel insurers that don’t cover COVID. Completely ignored the facts (and companies) I referenced to prove otherwise.

Besides that, why would ANY Australian travel insurer even bother offering COVID coverage when Australians are banned from travelling overseas??


Want fine print???
(From the Emirates INCLUDED travel insurance)

What you are covered for:
We will pay up to the amount shown in the table of benefits for the necessary and reasonable costs as a result of You becoming ill (including due to any Epidemic or Pandemic), being injured or dying during Your Trip.
!

I never plan on sickness or injury on my trips & may or may not have taken "travel insurance"

It is no different with this insurance - the stuff I need covered post Covid is not covered only if I get sick or injured.

I have lost a number of things on trips in the past 15 months ___ None of your "new insurances" would cover those losses, as I was not sick or injured by it.

[Troo believer]

From the Good2Go travel insurance website:

Troo believer and Aviation Enthusiast, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

None of you know about "fine print" do you? Didn't think so.

As I said earlier, if Covid19 killed 20 somethings and thirty somethings like you, and not your parents and grandparents, you would be screaming from the rooftops for total lockdown.

You will have to wait for your inheritance a little longer my friend.

No mate no idea about fine print. 40 years of flying but never read the fine print. How stupid of me. How the fu*k did I get my command not reading the fine print.
BTW, How’s the Cherokee going.

[dysslexicgod]

Phew! It’s a good thing that I can read occasionally. Enthusiast: The Emirates policy does not cover Australian ticket holders in the associated list and in any case. read general exclusions 13 and 22.​​​​​​. If the government says “don’t travel” and you do, well, you are SOL.

‘’I’m amazed at how trusting you are of insurers. Me? Not much.

‘’Sorry but I have to go and chase a wombat off my lawn.

P.s. I’d love a Cherokee if I could find one. Last I heard, sales of light aircraft and experimental kits were booming, as are caravan and 4WD, nobody is spending on international travel, but that is off topic.

[aviation_enthus]

Phew! It’s a good thing that I can read occasionally. Enthusiast: The Emirates policy does not cover Australian ticket holders in the associated list and in any case. read general exclusions 13 and 22.​​​​​​. If the government says “don’t travel” and you do, well, you are SOL

Yes I’ll give you that, however you could argue being given a specific exemption to travel (through the application process) means you would be covered.

Also the fact the Australian government bans ALL international travel is sort of the point of this thread.... If they allowed you to leave there are actually a growing number of countries that will let you in.

Besides, the point I was trying to make was that you CAN get travel insurance with COVID coverage.


‘’I’m amazed at how trusting you are of insurers. Me? Not much.

Again, making some other dig instead of just sticking to the debate.....

[blubak]

No chance!

Why would they when the “original case” arrived in Victoria back on the 4th May. He even got tested on May 10th after developing symptoms. So since then it’s been a Victorian problem. It’ll be a Victorian failure when their contact tracing is unable to keep up as well!!

How many chances has Victoria had to prove their incompetence? Plenty so far.
The SA health authorities have confirmed he caught the virus in an adelaide quarantine hotel so isnt that a failing in the SA hotel quarantine system.

[dysslexicgod]

Indications are that Victoria goes into lockdown shortly.

[minigundiplomat]

Yep, lets all start drinking more, driving faster, take more drugs and breaking more rules because we are all going to die sometime....that is your projection, not some CMO which you seem to think you are smarter than. Aviation (to come back a little closer to topic) is all about risk mitigation. Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead doesn't work in a Pandemic.

It's ok to be a scared little bunny wabbit - we'll keep you safe from the scary killer virus.

Drinking isn't banned, driving fast isn't banned, just taxed, injecting rooms are ok in Brett Sutton land. Cancer kills many more people in Australia, but we havent banned sunbathing, smoking or red meat - you're argument is pure 'whataboutery'.

How about we all get vaccinated and open up, and those that are scared little bunny wabbits give up work and lock themselves away?

[Foxxster]

Indications are that Victoria goes into lockdown shortly.

yes seems like a 7 to 10 days lockdown. Up to 25 new cases. And meanwhile Victorians are racing to cross into NSW and potentially spread the virus to Sydney.

once again the grossly incompetent Victorian tracing systems has stuffed up …

[StudentInDebt]

Also the fact the Australian government bans ALL international travel is sort of the point of this thread.... If they allowed you to leave there are actually a growing number of countries that will let you in.The Australian government does not ban all international travel, it is highly restricted however.

[minigundiplomat]

once again the grossly incompetent Victorian tracing systems has stuffed up …

But the system is 'gold standard', Dan said so.......

[blubak]

yes seems like a 7 to 10 days lockdown. Up to 25 new cases. And meanwhile Victorians are racing to cross into NSW and potentially spread the virus to Sydney.

once again the grossly incompetent Victorian tracing systems has stuffed up …
More like the selfish public has stuffed up,people that think qr codes dont apply to them,people that think wearing a mask on public transport doesnt apply to them & people who think they are above any law they dont like.
These are facts,you are just assuming the contact tracing system is stuffed because it suits your political agenda.
How stuffed is scomos vaccination system,he prefers to make himself look like the fool he is with embarrasing photo opportunities.

[minigundiplomat]

Hey Citizen Blubak,

please pass on my regards for a speedy recovery next time you see your glorious chairman.

[blubak]

Hey Citizen Blubak,

please pass on my regards for a speedy recovery next time you see your glorious chairman.
Not going to comment on scomo??
Hes a hero.

[Foxxster]

More like the selfish public has stuffed up,people that think qr codes dont apply to them,people that think wearing a mask on public transport doesnt apply to them & people who think they are above any law they dont like.
These are facts,you are just assuming the contact tracing system is stuffed because it suits your political agenda.
How stuffed is scomos vaccination system,he prefers to make himself look like the fool he is with embarrasing photo opportunities.


from the March lockdown

Victoria’s highly touted new digitised contact-tracing system has been hindered by defects since it went live in January, with flaws so serious that tracers stopped calling close contacts during a crucial period just days before the state went into lockdown last month.

A Health Department source told The Sunday Age contact tracing calls to close contacts had to be paused for hours on February 8 after it was discovered tracers had been given the wrong list and were calling people linked to a cluster at a Thai restaurant in Black Rock in January, rather than those potentially exposed to coronavirus cases in active outbreaks.

numerous reports this morning of stuff ups. But keep deflecting to Scomo to suit your political agenda. How many did Dan kill.. over 800 wasn’t it.

as for the selfish public. It is up to the state government to enforce QR codes and mask wearing etc.

[ruprecht]

I’m no fan of Daniel Andrews, but what the hell is this?

How many did Dan kill.. over 800 wasn’t it.

[Foxxster]

I’m no fan of Daniel Andrews, but what the hell is this?

oh, you missed the entire enquiry did you, you know where nobody was responsible. Nobody received those emails even though they actually did. Refusing federal help, or did they. Wasn’t me or him or her…. Lies upon lies by Andrews and others. …

don’t try and play cute

[ozbiggles]

It's ok to be a scared little bunny wabbit - we'll keep you safe from the scary killer virus.

Drinking isn't banned, driving fast isn't banned, just taxed, injecting rooms are ok in Brett Sutton land. Cancer kills many more people in Australia, but we havent banned sunbathing, smoking or red meat - you're argument is pure 'whataboutery'.

How about we all get vaccinated and open up, and those that are scared little bunny wabbits give up work and lock themselves away?

Really? Did you get your kindy kid to write that for you? Actually no, they would have been a bit better at understanding.

Where did I say banning any of those things or mention elimination? They are all risked manged just like the Covid19 response is.

But I'm not being fair. I should wait until your children are home to help you with your response.

[ruprecht]

don’t try and play cute

Some of us are cute without trying…

Mate, I don’t live in Victoria, and even if I did I wouldn’t be voting for Andrews. Maintain the rage, though: you’re doing a cracking job.

[SOPS]

WA border closed to Victoria as of 10.00 am WST today. Only people with special exemptions will be allowed in. Don’t know what happens if you are already in the air.

[aviation_enthus]

More like the selfish public has stuffed up,people that think qr codes dont apply to them,people that think wearing a mask on public transport doesnt apply to them & people who think they are above any law they dont like.
These are facts,you are just assuming the contact tracing system is stuffed because it suits your political agenda.
How stuffed is scomos vaccination system,he prefers to make himself look like the fool he is with embarrasing photo opportunities.

Facts??

How many inquiries have found the Victorian contact tracing system to be inadequate?

How many inquiries have found the Victorian hotel quarantine system inadequate?

QR code’s? Why has it taken Victoria 6 months longer than NSW to implement this?

If you want to talk about the facts, at least acknowledge the massive weaknesses reported in the Victorian Governments OWN reports!! That’s not a “political agenda”.

While we are on that topic, every single state has had an outbreak from hotel quarantine. It’s only Victoria that has failed the follow up contact tracing.

Scomo also has a lot to answer for with the slow vaccine rollout. The way it’s setup is to complicated and hard to access.

[PoppaJo]

My son went to use a QR code at a place in Victoria yesterday and it was an ineligible version (non gov version) and wouldn’t let him do it. The business sort just shrugged it off and didn’t assist.

[rattman]

yes seems like a 7 to 10 days lockdown. Up to 25 new cases. And meanwhile Victorians are racing to cross into NSW and potentially spread the virus to Sydney.

once again the grossly incompetent Victorian tracing systems has stuffed up …

Got a mate who is a truck driver crossed the VIC / SA border about the 2 hours after the press conferance. 1 1/2 to 2km queue of caravans

[jrfsp]

More like the selfish public has stuffed up,people that think qr codes dont apply to them,people that think wearing a mask on public transport doesnt apply to them & people who think they are above any law they dont like.
These are facts,you are just assuming the contact tracing system is stuffed because it suits your political agenda.
How stuffed is scomos vaccination system,he prefers to make himself look like the fool he is with embarrasing photo opportunities.

I mean the stuff up is back on HQ, this is the 17th leak in 6 months.....

[Ladloy]

I mean the stuff up is back on HQ, this is the 17th leak in 6 months.....
1 in every 200th HQ case leaks into the community.

[dysslexicgod]

Been in TAS and SA in the last few weeks. Both have respectable contact tracing systems. You cant get out of the arrival hall in Hobart without "checking in", SA requires pre approval from Police and a border check. Both are serious about QR codes everywhere to the point where retailers wont serve you unless you have checked in.

Victoria? La! La! La! No border checks and a broken and unenforced QR system. Dan Andrews is an idiot.

Suggestion now is that seven days won't be enough.

[jrfsp]

And we're about to repatriate people from India back into HQ....what could possibly go wrong.

[Dannyboy39]

Indications are that Victoria goes into lockdown shortly.
Is this not indicating that quarantines and travel restrictions don’t actually work and only slows it down? Designing it to buy time to get people vaccinated and get an adequate surveillance system in place.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Vaccinate, Vaccinate, Vaccinate.

Its not that hard a concept, yet some people here in Oz are borderline simpletons.

[Foxxster]

Vaccinate, Vaccinate, Vaccinate.

Its not that hard a concept, yet some people here in Oz are borderline simpletons.

which one.

because I hope you aren’t talking about AstraZeneca. If so better have a stern word to the chook in Qld. She wants the Pfizer. So you can’t blame the general populace if our dear leaders, well at least one and her health chief aren’t prepared to get it.

[ScepticalOptomist]

which one.

because I hope you aren’t talking about AstraZeneca. If so better have a stern word to the chook in Qld. She wants the Pfizer. So you can’t blame the general populace if our dear leaders, well at least one and her health chief aren’t prepared to get it.

The chook and her chihuahua are simpletons. Anyone who reckons they’re anything other than a couple of clowns also falls into the same category!

[KRviator]

Vaccinate, Vaccinate, Vaccinate.

Its not that hard a concept, yet some people here in Oz are borderline simpletons.Concept? No. But getting the vaccination if you want it? That appears to be the hard part...But who care's, the politicians still get their 15% superannuation & pensions and can work from home...

[Troo believer]

The chook and her chihuahua are simpletons. Anyone who reckons they’re anything other than a couple of clowns also falls into the same category!

Correct. They don’t understand science nor statistics. Vaccination IS the only way out. Otherwise you are just pissing into the wind. Sorry Ladies.

[jrfsp]

Correct. They don’t understand science nor statistics. Vaccination IS the only way out. Otherwise you are just pissing into the wind. Sorry Ladies.

While i completely agree, news out of the UK shows 1 in 10 in hospital with covid have been fully vaccinated. "The data that we have is that in the hotspot areas around one in 10 of those in hospital are people who have had both jabs. "The fact that 90% are people who have not yet been double vaccinated gives us a high degree of confidence that the vaccine is highly effective but it also shows - the fact there's 10% who have been double vaccinated - that it isn't 100% effective."
We will need to accept a number of deaths, while this will be no different to other diseases it will be a difficult sell for the government when unlike the rest of the world we are not used to it. Don't expect to open the border until after the election.

[Tucknroll]

While i completely agree, news out of the UK shows 1 in 10 in hospital with covid have been fully vaccinated. "The data that we have is that in the hotspot areas around one in 10 of those in hospital are people who have had both jabs. "The fact that 90% are people who have not yet been double vaccinated gives us a high degree of confidence that the vaccine is highly effective but it also shows - the fact there's 10% who have been double vaccinated - that it isn't 100% effective."
We will need to accept a number of deaths, while this will be no different to other diseases it will be a difficult sell for the government when unlike the rest of the world we are not used to it. Don't expect to open the border until after the election.

Got a reference for that?

[dysslexicgod]

You need to be thinking statistics.

1. You get ill if your body is infected with say 10,000,000 virus particles and your immune system can only neutralise 99,999,999 of them before your cells make another 10,000,000. You get better if your body can destroy virus particles faster than they can be made. If its the reverse, you die. Think something like Spitfire production vs ME109 to get the idea.

2. What a vaccine does is give your immune system a head start in battle#1.

3. A pandemic is a similar statistical exercise you need R0 to go to less than one to beat it. Anything that reduces the infection rate helps, vaccines, lockdowns etc.

Which brings up JRFSp's comment. It doesn't matter if a vaccine is only "90%" protective o an individual. What matters is getting R0 less than one. The vaccine doesnt have to be 100 percent effective to end the pandemic.

[jrfsp]

Got a reference for that?

Sure: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-57265134?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=60af6ee1e7130202defa3b07%26Hancock%3A%20One%20in %2010%20in%20hospital%20with%20Covid%20have%20had%20both%20j abs%262021-05-27T10%3A10%3A00.726Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:6413af48-c2ad-4dee-9431-4f55eb09075e&pinned_post_asset_id=60af6ee1e7130202defa3b07&pinned_post_type=share

[compressor stall]

Wow. Quoting a conservative MP’s claims made in the House of Commons as a basis of fact. Impressive.

Serious studies suggest otherwise.

[Foxxster]

While i completely agree, news out of the UK shows 1 in 10 in hospital with covid have been fully vaccinated. "The data that we have is that in the hotspot areas around one in 10 of those in hospital are people who have had both jabs. "The fact that 90% are people who have not yet been double vaccinated gives us a high degree of confidence that the vaccine is highly effective but it also shows - the fact there's 10% who have been double vaccinated - that it isn't 100% effective."
We will need to accept a number of deaths, while this will be no different to other diseases it will be a difficult sell for the government when unlike the rest of the world we are not used to it. Don't expect to open the border until after the election.


well that’s perhaps worse than expected. Or is it, can’t think at the moment.

stats are 57.6% have one vaccine
35.4% have had both

so that 10% of admissions relates only to the 35.4% which leaves 57.6% - 35.4% = 22.2% with only one shot. One shot is significantly less effective than two.

so there must be another 10% or so of admissions of people who have had only one of the two shots.

I would have thought with over a third of the population fully vaccinated and we were all told these were 90% + effective that there would be a lot less than 10% of total hospital admissions from this group. Sounds like these vaccines are not anywhere near as effective as first thought as being admitted to hospital clearly indicates a serious condition which is what the vaccines were meant to stop.

[Foxxster]

Not sure where he was getting the 10% figure from. I sure hope it is inaccurate.
which it appears to be.

The study analysed a quarter of all hospital patients in England, Scotland and Wales between early December and early April, and is one of the first to look at the impact of vaccinations on the numbers of people subsequently admitted to hospital with Covid-19.

It suggests that around 1% of hospital admissions between December and April were of people with Covid who had already had one vaccine dose.

The study found higher numbers of Covid hospital admissions around the time of vaccination and soon after, before the jab had started to work. Admissions then tailed off as protection from the vaccine built up.

[Troo believer]

Yes they’re are effective against DEATH or severe COVID. Some hospitalisations are inevitable. No two humans are the same. There is no silver bullet. Just because you’re in hospital doesn’t mean it’s necessarily severe disease. Depends on the state’s relevant policy. Qld I believe will admit you if you are COVID positive but I’m not 100% sure on that. Each state or country has varying requirements for admission.

From the CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7018e1.htm
“In a multistate network of U.S. hospitals during January–March 2021, receipt of Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccines was 94% effective against COVID-19 hospitalization among fully vaccinated adults and 64% effective among partially vaccinated adults aged ≥65 years.”

[Fuel-Off]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1041x207/uk_health_stats_f3b25fda7db000df8a4656d9bd9b4094011d0f03.png
Source: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

So... that would make from a country's population of 66.7 million what... 95 people? 95 out of 66.7 million in hospital with covid who have been vaccinated. I'm sure the NHS can handle that amount. Not to mention that we don't know whether those people had been fully vaccinated. As in two doses, and at least three weeks after the last dose. If they hadn't - NEWSFLASH "Man with holes in umbrella gets wet when it rains".

But then, the PM needs to actually get a cohesive vaccination program sorted, but that seems rather illusive for a failed advertising executive. If you think SloMo is really acting in the country's best interest, you're gravely mistaken. Just wait until after the election, the so-called 'medical advice' will miraculously change to be in favour of opening the borders.

Fuel-Off :ok:

[blubak]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1041x207/uk_health_stats_f3b25fda7db000df8a4656d9bd9b4094011d0f03.png
Source: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

So... that would make from a country's population of 66.7 million what... 95 people? 95 out of 66.7 million in hospital with covid who have been vaccinated. I'm sure the NHS can handle that amount. Not to mention that we don't know whether those people had been fully vaccinated. As in two doses, and at least three weeks after the last dose. If they hadn't - NEWSFLASH "Man with holes in umbrella gets wet when it rains".

But then, the PM needs to actually get a cohesive vaccination program sorted, but that seems rather illusive for a failed advertising executive. If you think SloMo is really acting in the country's best interest, you're gravely mistaken. Just wait until after the election, the so-called 'medical advice' will miraculously change to be in favour of opening the borders.

Fuel-Off :ok:
As far as i am aware if someone who has been vaccinated does get the virus their symptoms will me a lot less than non vaccinated & the risk of dying almost eliminated.
So what you say in your 1st paragraph backs that up i think.
The pm has done nothing to have a robust vaccination program in place,as you allude to he is in no way acting in the country's best interest.
Instead of embarrasing himself doing a photo shoot hanging out of an aircraft window he needs to take control of the mess he is presiding over.
Interesting how quiet he has been the last couple of days,wonder why that could be.

[Foxxster]

Perhaps we should be sending some of these to Victorians to enjoy during their lockdown.

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B00A2HD40E

[CFD]

"news out of the UK shows 1 in 10 in hospital with covid have been fully vaccinated"
Well there are statistics and statistics. The UK prioritised vaccinations as in Australia by priority groups. My guess would be some of the hospitalisations may well have nothing to do with covid but more the underlying health condition and they just happen to have covid.
Latest data shows 65-90% reduction in symptomatic disease, 75-95% reduction in hospitilisation, 95-99% reduction in mortality after 2 doses and depending on vaccine type.
Source: COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 21 (publishing.service.gov.uk) (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/990096/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_21.pdf)

[Guptar]

A few people here are mis-understanding the area of complex medicine and complex medicl conditions.
I have had in my family all my life with complex medical conditions so I have spent lots and lots of time in hospital waiting rooms.
Firstly, many people don;t understand the notion of "effectivness". I'll post a video that shows it's almost a random rumber based on a single study. It often has no relation to the numbers generated after say 5 years of use.

I have read the reprt from the NHS twice and can't find the refference to the 1in10 in hospital who have been vacinated.
However, it could be true, but for a different reason. A vaccination does not stop you getting the virus (as believed by lots lf people in the community), but for people with complex medical conditions who are fully vaccinated, getting covid (or influenza or dozens of other viruses) can cause a cascade of other problems which puts them in hospital. Their immune system may be combating Covid quite successfully, but due to the fragility of their other systems you ger a rapidly cascading set of other sytem problems. I suspect this is the case in the NHS numbers but will have to wait a few years for a full study to be be published.

I have a step-daugter in this position - she has been sent to hospital by helicopter 7 times through her life for this exact reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jMeJjVm5k0

[CFD]

Apologies Guptar.
My post was in reply to the statement news out of the UK shows 1 in 10 in hospital with covid have been fully vaccinated that someone else posted. I then made the point about other health conditions as you have. The NHS report that I quoted was just to make the point about the correct numbers if one had both doses of a vaccine.... it was not to back up the assertion of 10% of admissions have covid. That may or may not be true, I do not know. I was just referencing my source for those numbers.

[SOPS]

SA now closed to all of Victoria.

[Troo believer]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1560x2000/c3a1eb64_7e80_4333_9632_71ceff1ffa31_1bd1b2a357ab8d3bed5a38e d009dcd9ca273601f.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1520x2000/4c97e40d_ec34_4b67_b2ac_7fa957b54797_5253465fddc2407cbaa0bba 0a40d42726cfd7e52.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x2000/0544443d_1cb7_4b56_b7f6_cd6033d101fd_a6e20ca8db67544f8289811 1d8e8ae7aaf5f31b4.jpeg

[Bend alot]

Has it not been 3 day lockdowns for other states recently? - to get on top of things, when community cases happen.

7 or even 10 days is not an incubation period - Victoria must be well behind the 8 ball compared to other states.

[dr dre]

Vaccine hesitancy is only going to increase given the ridiculous fearmongering some media have taken over vaccines:

The front page of tomorrow's The West Australian.

The border isn’t getting reopened without the vaccine rollout being completed so this is just fuelling the fire.

[Green.Dot]

Completely agree Dre. WA (and many Australians) living in their own little temporary dream land. One day (soon enough) their Utopia will burn down without decisive action to vaccinate the masses.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Vaccine hesitancy is only going to increase given the ridiculous fearmongering some media have taken over vaccines:


1 in 88000 chance of getting a blood clot with the Astrazeneca. If there was a 1 in 88000 change of your engine blowing up you wouldn't go flying.

The sheep like ignorance of Australian is disconcerting. Australia is not a day advanced since March last year wrt to implementing reopening of the country. These rolling lockdowns are a bloody joke. What metric is the vic government using to allow the lockdown to be lifted? 5 days with no community spread?, 7 days 20 days? No policy. What about with vaccinations? Will Morrison open the international borders after 50% of the population is vaccinated? 60, 80, 20? Who knows. All Morrison wants is to get reelected.

Hotels for quarantine? what an absolute joke.

Reductions in group gatherings - but you can have 40000 people sitting next to each other in a football stadium.

In the last Vic lockdown (as this one) only essential workers can go to work. YET THEY HELD THE AUSTRALIAN OPEN. It is a an embarrassment.

No job keeper now, so I feel sorry for the Aussie workers that are going to devastated by this latest lockdown.

[Bend alot]

WA very recently had a otherwise fit and healthy person die soon after getting vaccinated (about 2 weeks) - official cause of death was still to be determined as of last weekend.

I don't read the papers, but heard nothing about this other than from an employee of the deceased sisters.

[Green.Dot]

1 in 88000 chance of getting a blood clot with the Astrazeneca. If there was a 1 in 88000 change of your engine blowing up you wouldn't go flying.

Yes you would. That’s why they started putting more than one engine on aeroplanes.

They didn’t call the Constellation the world’s best 3 engine airliner for nothing!

[dr dre]

Completely agree Dre. WA (and many Australians) living in their own little temporary dream land. One day (soon enough) their Utopia will burn down without decisive action to vaccinate the masses.

Well it isn’t just WA, I used that front page as an visual example but media all across Australia have pushed these scare mongering stories and then we wonder why vaccine hesitancy is high all across the country.

The fact Australia is only at 10% coverage whereas most first world and a lot of third world countries are approaching or above 50% is a failure of a lot of parties, the media need to be held to account but at the end of the day it’s the federal government who need to reign them in and they’ve failed to do so.

[Buster Hyman]

I'm sure it was merely coincidence that the Vic State of Emergency was due to expire in a day or two and could only be extended with another 'emergency'...

[dr dre]

I'm sure it was merely coincidence that the Vic State of Emergency was due to expire in a day or two and could only be extended with another 'emergency'...

Not true at all. It has been continuously extended every month of the pandemic (https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/202105/State%20of%20Emergency%20Extension.pdf).

[WingNut60]

........the media need to be held to account but at the end of the day it’s the federal government who need to reign them in...........
I always get a chuckle out of that one.
When did you last see that happen. Especially from a government that is heavily reliant on the ScoMo sound bites for its very existence.

[ruprecht]

Scott Morrison's secret for political success is to always be the bearer of glad tidings, never the bearer of bad news. To make someone else carry the can when things go wrong.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Vaccine hesitancy is only going to increase given the ridiculous fearmongering some media have taken over vaccines:

The front page of tomorrow's The West Australian. (https://twitter.com/westaustralian/status/1398274060501532678?s=20)

The border isn’t getting reopened without the vaccine rollout being completed so this is just fuelling the fire.

I wonder if Kerry has had the vaccine.

[Clare Prop]

the media need to be held to account but at the end of the day it’s the federal government who need to reign them in and they’ve failed to do so.
I agree with your post apart from this bit,do you really want the feds to have the power to censor the press?
I had the AZ and no side affects at all. It may immunise me from getting a bad case of Covid, but it doesn't give any other advantages whatsoever. If being vaccinated meant you didn't have to get locked down every time the hotel quarantine system leaks then people might be more likely to take it up.

[dr dre]

I agree with your post apart from this bit,do you really want the feds to have the power to censor the press?

Not censoring the press but debunking false info.

What Morrison and Hunt should do is show leadership, call a press conference where they show data and facts informing the public on how minuscule the risks are of the vaccine in comparison to Covid, have it in conjunction with all state premiers too. Get in the media with firm statements and explain the seriousness of not getting vaccinated. Morrison should even get an AZ vaccine live to show he wasn’t playing safe by staying with Pfizer.

Do that every day for the rest of the year if need be.

Of course it won’t happen as all he is about is photo ops and good PR. A small target approach and locking up the border until the election is over. He is not prepared to take any risks, just keep borders shut and hand out money to win an election.

[LapSap]

Not censoring the press but debunking false info.

What Morrison and Hunt should do is show leadership, call a press conference where they show data and facts informing the public on how minuscule the risks are of the vaccine in comparison to Covid, have it in conjunction with all state premiers too. Get in the media with firm statements and explain the seriousness of not getting vaccinated. Morrison should even get an AZ vaccine live to show he wasn’t playing safe by staying with Pfizer.

Do that every day for the rest of the year if need be.

Of course it won’t happen as all he is about is photo ops and good PR. A small target approach and locking up the border until the election is over. He is not prepared to take any risks, just keep borders shut and hand out money to win an election.

Absolutely in violent agreement with you again dr dre.
Total failure on the part of the Feds to not having a campaign to debunk the absolute crap being espoused by some.

And thumbs up to ruprecht as well- as I’ve said before, I’m sick of his good cop/bad cop routine.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

European Disease control data - from 28 MayWeekly surveillance summaryOverall situation

At the end of week 20 (week ending Sunday 23 May 2021), three countries in the European Union/European Economic Area (EU/EEA) had reported increasing case notification rates and/or test positivity. Case rates in older age groups had not increased in any countries; one country reported increasing hospital or intensive care unit (ICU) admissions and/or increasing occupancy due to COVID-19, and no countries reported increasing death rates. Absolute values of several indicators, including hospital and ICU occupancy, remained high, but trends for a number of indicators were stable or decreasing in several countries. Moreover, the median cumulative uptake of at least one vaccine dose among adults aged 18 years and above in the EU/EEA is 41.7% and increasing, as reported in the COVID-19 Vaccine rollout overview (https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/vaccine-roll-out-overview).

Recent changes to the report

Country-level figures showing age-specific vaccine uptake aligned with key epidemiological indicators (age-specific case and death rates, hospital/ICU occupancy and admissions due to COVID-19) in Section 5.

Trends in reported cases and testing


By the end of week 20, the 14-day case notification rate for the EU/EEA, based on data collected by ECDC from official national sources in 29 countries, was 132 (country range: 9-467) per 100 000 population. The rate has been decreasing for seven weeks.


Among the 24 countries with high case notification rates (at least 60 per 100 000 population), an increase was observed in one country (Denmark). Stable or decreasing trends in case rates of 1–12 weeks’ duration were observed in 23 countries (Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia, Estonia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain and Sweden).

Based on data reported to The European Surveillance System (TESSy) from 23 countries for people over 65 years old, high levels (at least 60 per 100 000 population) or increases in the 14-day COVID-19 case notification rates compared with last week were observed in 13 countries (Belgium, Cyprus, Czechia, Estonia, Greece, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Poland, Romania, Slovenia and Sweden).

Notification rates are dependent on several factors, one of which is the testing rate. Weekly testing rates for week 20, available for 29 countries, varied from 616 to 73 134 tests per 100 000 population. Denmark had the highest testing rate, followed by Austria, Greece, Cyprus and Czechia.



Among the 13 countries in which weekly test positivity was high (at least 3%), no countries had observed an increase in test positivity compared with the previous week. Test positivity remained stable, or had decreased, in 13 countries (Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Estonia, Germany, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Poland, Slovakia, Spain and Sweden).

Hospitalisation and ICU


Pooled data from 23 countries for week 20 show that there were 5.7 patients per 100 000 population in hospital due to COVID-19. According to weekly hospital admissions data pooled from 19 countries, new admissions were 3.6 per 100 000 population.

Pooled data from 18 countries for week 20 show that there were 1.4 patients per 100 000 population in ICU due to COVID-19. Pooled weekly ICU admissions based on data from 13 countries show that there were 1.2 new admissions per 100 000 population.

Hospital and/or ICU occupancy and/or new admissions due to COVID-19 were high (at least 25% of the peak level during the pandemic) or had increased compared with the previous week in 20 countries (Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovenia, Spain and Sweden). However, in 23 countries, there were decreases in these indicators compared with the previous week.


Mortality


The 14-day COVID-19 death rate for the EU/EEA, based on data collected by ECDC from official national sources for 30 countries, was 31.0 (country range: 0.0-105.0) per million population. The rate has been decreasing for four weeks.


Among the 21 countries with high 14-day COVID-19 death rates (at least 10 per million), no increases were observed. Stable or decreasing trends in death rates of 1–9 weeks’ duration were observed in 21 countries (Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia and Spain).

Variants of concern (VOC) and variants of interest (VOI)


Sequencing capacity varies greatly across the EU/EEA; 12 EU/EEA countries (Belgium, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Norway and Poland) met the recommended level of 10% or 500 sequences of SARS-CoV-2-positive cases sequenced and reported to the GISAID EpiCoV database (https://www.gisaid.org/) by 25 May 2021, or to TESSy by 23 May 2021 (data referring to the period 3 May to 16 May 2021). During the same period, 11 countries sequenced and reported between 60 and 499 samples, while seven countries sequenced and reported <60 samples or did not report data.

Among the 12 countries with the recommended level of 10% or 500 sequences reported per week in the period from 3 May to 16 May 2021, 10 had a valid denominator. The median (range) of the VOC reported in all samples sequenced in the period in these 10 countries was 90.4% (69.2–95.8%) for B.1.1.7, 0.8% (0.0–8.0%) for B.1.351, 0.3% (0.0–5.1%) for B.1.617, 0.2% (0.0–7.9%) for P.1 and 0.0% (0.0–1.3%) for B.1.1.7+E484K.

The median (range) of the VOI reported in all samples sequenced in the period for these 10 countries was 0.0% (0.0–0.9%) for B.1.525, 0.0% (0.0–0.3%) for B.1.620 and 0.0% (0.0–0.0%) for B.1.621. A list of current variants of concern and variants of interest for the EU/EEA is published on ECDC’s website (https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/variants-concern).


Long-term care facilities (LTCFs)


Based on data reported to TESSy from seven countries (Belgium, France, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Slovenia and Sweden), in week 20, the pooled incidence of COVID-19 cases among LTCF residents was 64.2 per 100 000 LTCF beds, the pooled incidence of fatal COVID-19 cases was 6.6 per 100 000 LTCF beds, and 5.4% of participating LTCFs reported one or more new COVID-19 cases among their residents.

Open the borders, let's get back to normal again.....

[Buster Hyman]

Not true at all. It has been continuously extended every month of the pandemic (https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/202105/State%20of%20Emergency%20Extension.pdf).
Yeah, you got me there. More than a day or two, June 4th to be precise but, thanks for saving me having to prove my own point.

EMA 2013 Section 30 (3) If the Minister considers it necessary to do so, the Minister may extend the period of appointment under subsection (2) for a further period not exceeding 12 weeks or further periods each of which must not exceed 12 weeks.(3) If the Minister considers it necessary to do so, the Minister may extend the period of appointment under subsection (2) for a further period not exceeding 12 weeks or further periods each of which must not exceed 12 weeks.

On a side note, have we reached peak madness yet?
https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/the-ghan-passengers-left-in-the-outback-after-melbourne-covid-lockdown/news-story/ced1615fe260b78b6ae2a7e36bb5880f

[Foxxster]

Not censoring the press but debunking false info.

What Morrison and Hunt should do is show leadership, call a press conference where they show data and facts informing the public on how minuscule the risks are of the vaccine in comparison to Covid, have it in conjunction with all state premiers too. Get in the media with firm statements and explain the seriousness of not getting vaccinated. Morrison should even get an AZ vaccine live to show he wasn’t playing safe by staying with Pfizer.

Do that every day for the rest of the year if need be.

Of course it won’t happen as all he is about is photo ops and good PR. A small target approach and locking up the border until the election is over. He is not prepared to take any risks, just keep borders shut and hand out money to win an election.

what a pity old chook up in Qld and her chief health officer still have not been vaccinated. Waiting for the Pfizer apparently. Can’t have that blood clot forming AstraZeneca vaccine.

and wonder why others are hesitant. Nothing like leadership.

[Chronic Snoozer]

what a pity old chook up in Qld and her chief health officer still have not been vaccinated. Waiting for the Pfizer apparently. Can’t have that blood clot forming AstraZeneca vaccine.

and wonder why others are hesitant. Nothing like leadership.

Really? Leadership from politicians to motivate people to vaccinate? One minute they are pilloried for doing something and the next they’re pilloried for NOT doing something. It doesn’t help that pollies aren’t getting vaccinated but Scomo copped a spray because he did get a jab. Then he copped more because it was Pfizer!

[Foxxster]

Really? Leadership from politicians to motivate people to vaccinate? One minute they are pilloried for doing something and the next they’re pilloried for NOT doing something. It doesn’t help that pollies aren’t getting vaccinated but Scomo copped a spray because he did get a jab. Then he copped more because it was Pfizer!

i think most if not all state premieres and yes ScoMo have got the vaccine.

that is leadership

NOT getting it and waiting for the Pfizer vaccine when there are clearly people fearful of getting it due to the clotting issue is disgraceful. And waiting for the Pfizer vaccine …

anyone who was wavering has well founded grounds now for not getting the AstraZeneca jab themselves…

The post I was responding to mentioned getting state premiers to cooperate with the federal govt. we just had Labor Victoria blame the feds for their own latest incompetence. But then Dan is never to blame for anything bad.

and we have labor qld premier not getting vaccinated.

good luck getting any cooperation from those two states.
the only positive from the negligent Victorian situation is at least people are queuing up to get vaccinated now.

[Chronic Snoozer]

i think most if not all state premieres and yes ScoMo have got the vaccine.

that is leadership

NOT getting it and waiting for the Pfizer vaccine when there are clearly people fearful of getting it due to the clotting issue is disgraceful. And waiting for the Pfizer vaccine …

anyone who was wavering has well founded grounds now for not getting the AstraZeneca jab themselves…

The post I was responding to mentioned getting state premiers to cooperate with the federal govt. we just had Labor Victoria blame the feds for their own latest incompetence. But then Dan is never to blame for anything bad.

and we have labor qld premier not getting vaccinated.

good luck getting any cooperation from those two states.
the only positive from the negligent Victorian situation is at least people are queuing up to get vaccinated now.

Yes. Whatever works. Tough situation (the pandemic, not all the other sh!t) all round for politicians, we shouldn’t be too hard on them. I can see what the federal government was trying to do and I also can see why the States went their own way. It’s one thing to tap on our keyboards and be critical and quite another to stand up in front of the media, constituents and business leaders to deliver a decision which is not going to be popular, trusting the public servants around you have given you the right data/information/facts/statistics. Would you honestly want to be in their shoes? There’s obviously a lot going on behind the scenes which we are not privy to. Not long to go now.

[Foxxster]

Yes. Whatever works. Tough situation (the pandemic, not all the other sh!t) all round for politicians, we shouldn’t be too hard on them. I can see what the federal government was trying to do and I also can see why the States went their own way. It’s one thing to tap on our keyboards and be critical and quite another to stand up in front of the media, constituents and business leaders to deliver a decision which is not going to be popular, trusting the public servants around you have given you the right data/information/facts/statistics. Would you honestly want to be in their shoes? There’s obviously a lot going on behind the scenes which we are not privy to. Not long to go now.

actually I would hate being any world leader or indeed state leader now.

same goes for being treasurer or health minister / head of health.

having said that I think there are certain behaviours that are unacceptable. Like not getting vaccinated.

[Guptar]

This Dr is remarkably sensible for an American.
His chanel attempt to present an unbiased medically based view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wosyaWiDR2U

[kingRB]

Amazing how much context seems to be presented for vaccine related deaths and injury, but not so much for Covid 19 itself :rolleyes:

[Duck Pilot]

Got more chance of getting hit by a bus than getting blood clots post the jab.

Getting vaccinated is common sense in my opinion. It is also common sense for the authorities to allow vaccinated people to travel freely anywhere in the world and be exempt from quarantine.

[Bend alot]

It is also common sense for the authorities to allow vaccinated people to travel freely anywhere in the world and be exempt from quarantine.


You are kidding right?

You do know that you can still get COVID and spread it after the jab don't you.

[Dannyboy39]

You are kidding right? You do know that you can still get COVID and spread it after the jab don't you.
So where and how does it end? Even more so after a negative PCR test? Evidence shows that transmission is significantly diminished.

Meanwhile, in the "dangerous UK", the roads last night were chok-a-block going to domestic resorts as a holiday weekend and good weather finally comes around.

[Fuel-Off]

You do know that you can still get COVID and spread it after the jab don't you.
All the more reason for the country to vaccinate! I know that's pretty difficult because it's not like we make it in country or anything.

Oh that's right...

Fuel-Off :ok:

[Angle of Attack]

So when should we open up? 6 months after being vaccinated? 12 months? If you have had the opportunity to have the vaccine and refused well you should be released to the hounds. And don’t whinge about people with disorders and immune problems, that’s always been the case and Influenza picks them off regardless. You need to make precautions if you are immuno compromised anyway…

[Duck Pilot]

Having endured significant financial stress as a result of the pandemic like most in the aviation industry, I simply don’t care what the armchair experts and those who haven’t been significantly effected think.

Get Jabbed, it’s the best defence we have now which will support our health and economy to get back to some form of normalcy - whatever that we be in 5 years.

[Chronic Snoozer]

So when should we open up? 6 months after being vaccinated? 12 months? If you have had the opportunity to have the vaccine and refused well you should be released to the hounds. And don’t whinge about people with disorders and immune problems, that’s always been the case and Influenza picks them off regardless. You need to make precautions if you are immuno compromised anyway…

We shouldn't open up until an interest group of scientists says so in the Lancet. :yuk:

[Chronic Snoozer]

You are kidding right?

You do know that you can still get COVID and spread it after the jab don't you.

Like the flu?

[Bend alot]

Some very self-centered people with very narrow views that think they have done it hard during this World Wide pandemic.

Pretty much no country other than North Korea has enough immunity to open up yet and many other countries simply do not have the resources, funds or capability to vaccinate even a small percentage of the citizens that want to get vaccinated - for many it will only ever be a dream to get vaccinated.

Here in Australia a first World nation we have hardly touched the surface with vaccinations (so much so it is embarrassing).

Yet the High and Mighty think that just because they have been fortunate enough to get vaccinated, that the World should instantly open up just for them!

Bugger the rest of the World Citizens, that you can easily infect by carrying the virus to what even destination you feel you have the right to visit.

Must love the self-righteous arrogance of some.

[Duck Pilot]

Some very self-centered people with very narrow views that think they have done it hard during this World Wide pandemic.

Pretty much no country other than North Korea has enough immunity to open up yet and many other countries simply do not have the resources, funds or capability to vaccinate even a small percentage of the citizens that want to get vaccinated - for many it will only ever be a dream to get vaccinated.

Here in Australia a first World nation we have hardly touched the surface with vaccinations (so much so it is embarrassing).

Yet the High and Mighty think that just because they have been fortunate enough to get vaccinated, that the World should instantly open up just for them!

Bugger the rest of the World Citizens, that you can easily infect by carrying the virus to what even destination you feel you have the right to visit.

Must love the self-righteous arrogance of some.

So how have you been directly effected by the pandemic?

I’ve been out of full time employment for over 12 months, compounding unpaid debts over my head and I have recently had to sell my car in an attempt to financially recover. I elected not to go on the doll and worked my way out of the mess, which I have successfully done,

How dare you refer to me as being self centred and opinionated and all the rest of the drivel - that’s an insult!

Anyone who has been stood down, terminated from their employment or business owners who were forced into restricting or ceasing their business activities, due to the pandemic would probably feel the same way as I do. Overall I haven’t done to bad getting through the mess, however I know others have and still are suffering financial stress and potential ruin. We need a solution, the vaccines are the best we have now to reduce the deaths and bring things back to some form of normalcy.

[Fuel-Off]

Yet the High and Mighty think that just because they have been fortunate enough to get vaccinated, that the World should instantly open up just for them!

Not quite. I think most on here are calling for a pathway from this crisis. To move Australia from these ceaseless knee jerk lockdowns. What is the official word from the Federal Government? A little tid bit burried somewhere in the latest Federal Budget that somewhat whispers the point the country might open mid 2022. That we might have everyone vaccinated by the end of 2021.

The UK has a public plan to open the country, provided nothing dramatic changes. The EU is planning to open to vaccinated travellers in this year's Northern summer. The US is tipped to reach 90% vaccination by end of July (if current inoculation rates continue at their current pace). Phuket (not the rest of Thailand) will be opening to vaccinated tourists later this year.

We have heard nothing but doom and gloom and buck passing from SloMo. At least Boris Johnson and Joe Biden have announced time frames to get their countries out. Our PM knows that it would be to his political detriment if he were to place any time based targets to policy as he has failed to meet any he has set himself thus far.

But apparently Australia can wait. Experts and Melbournians would beg to differ.

Fuel-Off :ok:

[Bend alot]

So how have you been directly effected by the pandemic?

I’ve been out of full time employment for over 12 months, compounding unpaid debts over my head and I have recently had to sell my car in an attempt to financially recover. I elected not to go on the doll and worked my way out of the mess, which I have successfully done,

How dare you refer to me as being self centred and opinionated and all the rest of the drivel - that’s an insult!

I work in aviation, general aviation and have since the mid 80's - I have like pretty much everyone else in this industry have been "directly effected" financially and other.

I learnt from this experience - there is a lot of things that make a life.

[SHVC]

This latest outbreak is what our country needed, good kick up the a$$ to go get vaccinated so we can get on with it. Melbourne seeing record numbers for the uptake even lining up for hours already this morning.

[Bend alot]

Not quite. I think most on here are calling for a pathway from this crisis. To move Australia from these ceaseless knee jerk lockdowns. What is the official word from the Federal Government? A little tid bit burried somewhere in the latest Federal Budget that somewhat whispers the point the country might open mid 2022. That we might have everyone vaccinated by the end of 2021.

The UK has a public plan to open the country, provided nothing dramatic changes. The EU is planning to open to vaccinated travellers in this year's Northern summer. The US is tipped to reach 90% vaccination by end of July (if current inoculation rates continue at their current pace). Phuket (not the rest of Thailand) will be opening to vaccinated tourists later this year.

We have heard nothing but doom and gloom and buck passing from SloMo. At least Boris Johnson and Joe Biden have announced time frames to get their countries out. Our PM knows that it would be to his political detriment if he were to place any time based targets to policy as he has failed to meet any he has set himself thus far.

But apparently Australia can wait. Experts and Melbournians would beg to differ.

Fuel-Off :ok:
Good post Fuel-Off.

Our governments (Australia) have not been united (they are self-centered) and have no real future plan/path for next week, next month or next year.

Our opening up of borders around the World should happen in my opinion after we sort our own back yard we as a country clearly are far from that.
After that we should assist our near neighbors particularly in the South Pacific to have sufficient vaccination levels and evacuation procedures for visitors. After that assist in the greater World with vaccination and evacuation/isolation procedures of visitors.

When the World is on a somewhat equal risk level vs vaccination uptake we can look at open borders for ALL.

Many will think this World level of Vaccination and evacuation/isolation is not our responsibility or over the top - it should be looked at at a practice run for the next event.

[Duck Pilot]

I’ve learnt from experiences as well like most others - I just don’t like to be insulted on a public forum for expressing my opinion.

Happy Sunday 😀

[Maggie Island]

We have heard nothing but doom and gloom and buck passing from SloMo. At least Boris Johnson and Joe Biden have announced time frames to get their countries out. Our PM knows that it would be to his political detriment if he were to place any time based targets to policy as he has failed to meet any he has set himself thus far.



This just in, politicians play politics! Absolute shocker!!!:}

Consider Melbourne lucky - they haven’t been overrun by rodents (yet).

[blubak]

This latest outbreak is what our country needed, good kick up the a$$ to go get vaccinated so we can get on with it. Melbourne seeing record numbers for the uptake even lining up for hours already this morning.
I think you have hit the nail on the head(many will disagree of course).
There is risk in everything we do but it doesnt stop us doing it in almost all the decisions we make.
In my humble opinion we need to get vaccinated to reduce the risk of lockdowns,virus spread & maybe dying in extreme cases.
Surgery comes with a risk of dying but if somebody happens to pass whilst having surgery we dont see it on the front page of a newspaper or have every media drive show host telling you how risky it is to have surgery.
Keep it up melbourne😀

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Vaccination or no vaccination - The government NEEDS to outline a plan for opening the borders. The reality is you will NEVER get 100 percent of the population vaccinated. Unless you want to have a forced inoculation - mandatory with military intervention. Unfortunately, If that was to occur, I reckon the brainwashed sheepish public would accept compulsory vaccination.

[Sparrows.]

https://thenewdaily.com.au/opinion/2021/05/27/astrazeneca-risk-clots-death/

[Foxxster]

This just in, politicians play politics! Absolute shocker!!!:}

Consider Melbourne lucky - they haven’t been overrun by rodents (yet).

the same Melbourne now in its fourth lockdown. Estimated to cost over a BILLION dollars.

the same Melbourne or Victoria squealing that the federal government won’t pay for their gross incompetence.

NSW has had a single QR code since the middle of last year. Victoria managed to get to the same point only a couple of days ago. Despite being told in the middle of last year to get a single government code.

their online vaccination system crashed and still isn’t working.

And of course their hotel quarantine where Dan thought he knew better than anyone else and went his own way with dire consequences.

[PoppaJo]

To be fair on Victoria, Canberra could come to the party on the remote quarantine front in that state, the proposal is excellent from what I’ve been told, and of course fix its jab rollout. Two key projects that could prevent these events. I understand the point in regards to the Feds not constantly bailing out states every month, however they could do a better job at the stuff they are responsible for. Avalon construction should have started by now. Hurry the **** up!

Not overly sure contact tracing is at fault either here. From what I gather this last week has been the biggest contact tracing effort ever during this pandemic. Sydney hasn’t been tested like that yet. My son went to the footy, was contacted very soon after. Impressive considering they are chasing up tens of not hundreds of thousands of people in the last week.

I know an aircrew who had a positive as a pax back in the Sydney Christmas mess. NSW health contacted him 6 days later.

[SHVC]

Remote quarantine is not the answer, Sco Mo has said he supports remote quarantine as he is in talks with Vic and seems to favor their proposal as it will increase foreign students. This is a sector that is struggling just like aviation it is also loosing millions maybe even billions, however, he did say remote quarantine is to increase the arrival cap not maintain current levels.

The only solution is get vaccinated! U.S.A has 2 million additional ppl traveling as it’s a holiday weekend they are getting on with life their domestic capacity is increasing ten fold compare to is as we fluff around over few cases and send our grand children further into the oblivion with debt.

I like Sco Mo and the gov we have they are doing a much better job than if labor were in power just my opinion other will say otherwise. Sco Mo has failed miserably getting the word out on this vaccine tho, we need the fact the ppl need the facts instead of ppl reading Facebook headlines and watching the project and their misleading stories. Sco Mo needs to get the facts out there I suggest all read then share this link anyway possible so ppl can make a better informed decision after speaking with their GP.

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/05/patient-information-sheet-on-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-and-thrombosis-with-thrombocytopenia-syndrome-tts.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2DtBrlQzIKzRp4xYD-uIASy6MzKToP5aQ08Uvd6VPUrt2Y0UlGR4-z1hc

then we have the actual reporting events through the TGA the cases are very low. The general consensus is, not getting vaccinated is much worse than getting vaccinated.
https://www.tga.gov.au/periodic/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-safety-report-06-05-2021

[SOPS]

The problem is leaks out of HQ. What I still fail to understand is just how many Australians are overseas and want to come home?

The number was originally reported at around 30000. Then there was 10000 in India that wanted to come back.

It’s reported in the paper today, that 47000 people have gone trough HQ in Perth alone since this began.

So my question is, when will the numbers start to decrease?

[PoppaJo]

So my question is, when will the numbers start to decrease?
When we stop letting people leave. I know many who have gone overseas for boyfriends, girlfriends, ‘study’, funerals, weddings.

[Asturias56]

"The reality is you will NEVER get 100 percent of the population vaccinated"

And of course you don't need to - most sources reckon that over 60% fully vaccinated is probably enough - especially if that includes all the at risk groups. 25% or so of the population is under 20 and has extremely low death rates

If the UK can vaccinate 59% with one shot and 37% with two shots in a few months there really should be no reason why Australia can't be open by October

[PoppaJo]

The only solution is get vaccinated!
Deputy PM at some presser again today saying ‘it’s not a race’

FFS make it a race!

[blubak]

Deputy PM at some presser again today saying ‘it’s not a race’

FFS make it a race!
Scomo in NZ doing photo shoots as per normal.
Needs to be here but as usual he has more important issues to address.

[josephfeatherweight]

Deputy PM at some presser again today saying ‘it’s not a race’

FFS make it a race!

Absolutely!

[dr dre]

Deputy PM at some presser again today saying ‘it’s not a race’

FFS make it a race!

The finish line is after the next election date. Constitutionally it has to be by May 2022. Politically when the polls are in the government's favour. They won't make any change on the border until after the election as the country wants to feel "protected" and even if it seeps in and just a very few unvaccinated elderly die then the media will go to town on them. It's a consequence of a zero Covid strategy.

We lockdown and close borders to protect the vulnerable until the vaccine arrived but here's where I draw the line:

Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt said 53 of the 76 residents at the home had consented to be vaccinated.


Arcare Maidstone aged care worker tests positive - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-30/victoria-records-five-new-local-covid-cases/100176658)

If 30% of aged care residents do not consent to be vaccinated then it's their problem.

The logical solution would be to open up after every over 50 has had access to the vaccine. Of course a few elderly would die and the media would explode in fear so the government does SFA.

[mattyj]

So once we're all vaccinated, what have the Wuhan bioweapons lab got in store for us next??

[blubak]

To be fair on Victoria, Canberra could come to the party on the remote quarantine front in that state, the proposal is excellent from what I’ve been told, and of course fix its jab rollout. Two key projects that could prevent these events. I understand the point in regards to the Feds not constantly bailing out states every month, however they could do a better job at the stuff they are responsible for. Avalon construction should have started by now. Hurry the **** up!

Not overly sure contact tracing is at fault either here. From what I gather this last week has been the biggest contact tracing effort ever during this pandemic. Sydney hasn’t been tested like that yet. My son went to the footy, was contacted very soon after. Impressive considering they are chasing up tens of not hundreds of thousands of people in the last week.

I know an aircrew who had a positive as a pax back in the Sydney Christmas mess. NSW health contacted him 6 days later.
I watched the vic govt news conference today & despite what many others think i have to agree they are doing a very good job.
We can go on about whats happened in the past & it was definitely a stuff up but realistically whats being done right now is what matters.
The testing numbers a couple of weeks back were around 15000/day,now its triple that so the logistics involved to achieve that is nothing to be sneezed at.

[SHVC]

most sources reckon that over 60% fully vaccinated is probably enough

Please attach link to your sources. Most I look at are a lot higher than 60%. Lets start with fact to much BS is being spread.

[Tucknroll]

A few timely facts for the echo chamber.

The economy is growing, in fact The last two quarters of growth (https://www.rba.gov.au/chart-pack/au-growth.html) have been the highest rates of growth in the last 30 years. Our hospitals are able to deal with the very few covid cases that we are seeing In fact they are doing it incredibly well (https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2021/214/1/outcomes-patients-covid-19-admitted-australian-intensive-care-units-during-first). Over the course of the pandemic the majority of Australians have enjoyed a domestic life almost completely unaffected by the virus. Most businesses that needed to, including small businesses (https://www.asbfeo.gov.au/news/news-articles/small-business-sector-demonstrates-resilience-covid-crisis-report), still operating have adapted and are able to profitably operate in the current environment. The prediction of a massive business failure rate following the ending of jobkeeper simply hasn’t eventuated. Both the unemployment rate and underemployment rate (https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/labour/employment-and-unemployment/labour-force-australia/latest-release) have reduced last month. The unemployment rate has decreased for the 10th consecutive month.

The federal government has a strong mandate for continuing with the current policy. This Lowy poll (https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/covidpoll-2021) from earlier this month shows a 95% approval rating for how the government has handled Covid. This poll was conducted after the rollout was delayed and widely reported (https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/4-ways-australias-covid-vaccine-rollout-has-been-bungled-158225) as ‘bungled.’ I think even with the current Melbourne lockdown, you’ll find overwhelming support for the government’s handling of Covid. Virtually no one wants open borders.

Most of the people here are just shouting into the wind.

[ruprecht]

This Lowy poll (https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/covidpoll-2021) from earlier this month shows a 95% approval rating for how the government has handled Covid.

The Lowy result is below:

Almost all Australian adults (95%) say that Australia has handled COVID-19 well, with a 22-point jump in those saying Australia has handled COVID-19 ‘very well’

I don’t see the government mentioned there.

[Troo believer]

Tucknroll,

The borders are already open. Not completely but open nonetheless with obvious quarantine caveats. If you advocate strict border closure, that means no one enters period, yet about 1000 people per day are arriving. What will it be? No one is advocating opening up to pre COVID levels yet, so why do you keep pushing it in order to scare people?

I hazard at a guess that the government’s mandate is evaporating quickly at the moment. The press is turning in tune with the consensus that vaccination is the key. Look at the response in Victoria. Its economic suicide to remain a hermit nation into the future. It’s not sustainable.

Pray tell what do you do for a living? Has it anything at all to do with professional aviation?

Keep pushing your mantra but the majority here disagree with your opinions. You’re probably an anti vaxer to boot.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/it-is-a-race-and-the-vaccine-rollout-is-crucial-20210530-p57wei.html

[Tucknroll]

I don’t see the government mentioned there.

Sure, but I think that is implied within the question as governments set policy. Perhaps you could give your interpretation of the question?

“Overall, how well or badly do you think each of the following countries have handled the COVID-19 coronavirus outbreak so far?”

[Tucknroll]

Tucknroll,

The borders are already open. Not completely but open nonetheless with obvious quarantine caveats. If you advocate strict border closure, that means no one enters period, yet about 1000 people per day are arriving. What will it be? No one is advocating opening up to pre COVID levels yet, so why do you keep pushing it in order to scare people?

I hazard at a guess that the government’s mandate is evaporating quickly at the moment. The press is turning in tune with the consensus that vaccination is the key. Look at the response in Victoria. Its economic suicide to remain a hermit nation into the future. It’s not sustainable.

Pray tell what do you do for a living? Has it anything at all to do with professional aviation?

Keep pushing your mantra but the majority here disagree with your opinions. You’re probably an anti vaxer to boot.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/it-is-a-race-and-the-vaccine-rollout-is-crucial-20210530-p57wei.html

Economic suicide? The figures just aren’t showing that. Look at my original post, we have had the two largest quarters of economic growth in the last 30 years. Our economy is the envy of the OECD.

As for what I do, I’m a long haul pilot, currently stood down. I have been for over a year now.

My previous post wasn’t stating an opinion. It was stating statistics. I’m not an anti vaxxer, but your supposition is an example of poorly aimed insults thrown at people who tell you inconvenient facts that you don’t want to hear.

[ruprecht]

Sure, but I think that is implied within the question as governments set policy.

Implying is the realm of marketing. :hmm:

If you want a survey on government policy, then you need to include questions on government policy.

[Troo believer]

What’s the deficit looking like? Keynesian economics fit for a crisis but is it sustainable and for how long. Massive tax breaks, infrastructure spending, low interest rates and eye watering private debt pumping a housing bubble is not a long term proposition.

Still didn’t answer the question. Do you want borders closed or not? Status quo or a gradual opening up similar to what’s happening with NZ? What will it be?

You have a vested interest like myself to get back to work. No one is advocating for rash changes since we are so far behind the UK and the USA we can watch and learn. After all we played COVID well for the first half of the game, and then convinced ourselves that we were the winners with the second half yet to be played. The USA and the UK played a woeful first half, no question, but the second half is on script. Pollies have always said that borders will open gradually from the get go, so why the opposition?

Where and when is the end point?

[aviation_enthus]

Economic suicide? The figures just aren’t showing that. Look at my original post, we have had the two largest quarters of economic growth in the last 30 years. Our economy is the envy of the OECD.

The “figures” are showing the effect of the massive sugar hit provided by the government stimulus plus super release plus 6 months of accumulated savings (for those still working).

In the medium term all this goes away.

Just about the only reason GDP has grown since 2008 is the high immigration rate we’ve had. Closed borders mean the population is expected to decline over the next 12-24 months. Once that stimulus runs out, watch the economy stagnate.

[aviation_enthus]

The federal government has a strong mandate for continuing with the current policy. This Lowy poll (https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/covidpoll-2021) from earlier this month shows a 95% approval rating for how the government has handled Covid. This poll was conducted after the rollout was delayed and widely reported (https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/4-ways-australias-covid-vaccine-rollout-has-been-bungled-158225) as ‘bungled.’ I think even with the current Melbourne lockdown, you’ll find overwhelming support for the government’s handling of Covid. Virtually no one wants open borders.

Most of the people here are just shouting into the wind.

If you actually listened to the “people shouting in the wind” you’d probably notice a lot of them are frustrated with the apparent lack of plan from the Feds on when things will reopen.

Comments from the PM like:

”it’s not a race”

”borders MAY reopen in 2023”

Does not fill anyone with hope they have any f****** idea what comes next.

Australians are happy with the “way things have been handled” because they haven’t experienced any alternative. Plus the outside world has basically been presented as the zombie apocalypse. But is the border opening dependent on an opinion poll or the various levels of governments doing their job and LEADING the country forward?

The ONLY way forward is to vaccinate as many people as possible as FAST as possible. Nothing else offers any protection. We’ve had 17 different outbreaks from HQ and this will continue on until eternity with the current border restrictions. Closing the border is not a sustainable medium term option, vaccination is the only way out of this mess.

GET ON WITH IT!!

[SHVC]

Good news is Victoria can’t keep up with vaccinations they’re turning ppl away. Now we just need outbreaks in the other states and territories to get a kick up the a$$.

Also, could someone tell me what this J.Weimar fellow is actually supposed to be doing? Doesn’t seem a lot.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Good news is Victoria can’t keep up with vaccinations they’re turning ppl away. Now we just need outbreaks in the other states and territories to get a kick up the a$$.

Also, could someone tell me what this J.Weimar fellow is actually supposed to be doing? Doesn’t seem a lot.


People just need a little motivation sometimes!

[WingNut60]

People just need a little motivation sometimes!
That's what he said.

[ScepticalOptomist]

That's what he said.

And I agreed with him. :-)

[SHVC]

Victorians being keen as to get jabbed now. Theoretically speaking, if all of Vic residents get the jab and the other states and territories are still fluffing in the wind. that would mean we would have to close off to Vic because there would be no need for them to test for the virus it would become the common flu there, thats why we want the vaccine right?! This will be interesting for sure.

[minigundiplomat]

There’s a new Vietnamese killer mutant death strain looming into the horizon according to the media...

it just reminds me of the war between Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia; never seems to approach any end.

[Foxxster]

With all this scaremongering over the AstraZeneca vaccine….

ooops.

https://youtu.be/LO3g0jCO6v8

[Asturias56]

All vaccines work, none increase your chance of death significantly, if at all. Compared to the risk from Covid you're always better off having the vaccine

[dr dre]

With all this scaremongering over the AstraZeneca vaccine….

ooops.



That’s because for about two months from late Jan to late March France and Germany restricted use of AZ to under 65. Persons in that cohort will have a lower risk of dying of natural causes in the weeks after the vaccine compared to the older age bracket who got mostly Pfizer so overall this has skewed the death rate to being higher overall for Pfizer.

And you’d realise that if you got your news from a better source than RT.

[blubak]

All vaccines work, none increase your chance of death significantly, if at all. Compared to the risk from Covid you're always better off having the vaccine
Agree 100%,basically nobody thinks twice about vaccinating their kids,nobody thinks twice about being vaccinated if needed to enter a country on a holiday destination where its required & even if somebody does have complications after the jab it doesnt make headlines.
People have reactions to the common flu vaccination but lots still have it,just saying...

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Agree 100%,basically nobody thinks twice about vaccinating their kids,nobody thinks twice about being vaccinated if needed to enter a country on a holiday destination where its required & even if somebody does have complications after the jab it doesnt make headlines.
People have reactions to the common flu vaccination but lots still have it,just saying...

The testing for these vaccines have not been remotely as rigorous as previous vaccines.......

One used to choose to go to another country and choose whether to get vaccinated or not.....

[Fonz121]

...and choose whether to get vaccinated or not.....

Has this changed?

[Foxxster]

That’s because for about two months from late Jan to late March France and Germany restricted use of AZ to under 65. Persons in that cohort will have a lower risk of dying of natural causes in the weeks after the vaccine compared to the older age bracket who got mostly Pfizer so overall this has skewed the death rate to being higher overall for Pfizer.

And you’d realise that if you got your news from a better source than RT.

oh I realise an awful lot about what was going on in Europe and the political games they were playing with the AstraZeneca vaccine. In fact I know more than you I would gamble.

as you missed the point entirely of my post I will make it simple for you.

the scaremongering, yes if you’d paid attention you would have spotted i used that word, over the AstraZeneca vaccine has been verging on hysterical. With every case of clotting and every death making headlines. And with little facts surrounding it in terms of how rare it really is. However seeing as the Pfizer vaccine also has complications as per the study then why no spotlight on it. People die with Pfizer, and more than AstraZeneca per this report. Underlying facts don’t matter to the mainstream media or many in the general public.

Hope that was patronising enough .

[turbantime]

oh I realise an awful lot about what was going on in Europe and the political games they were playing with the AstraZeneca vaccine. In fact I know more than you I would gamble.

as you missed the point entirely of my post I will make it simple for you.

the scaremongering, yes if you’d paid attention you would have spotted i used that word, over the AstraZeneca vaccine has been verging on hysterical. With every case of clotting and every death making headlines. And with little facts surrounding it in terms of how rare it really is. However seeing as the Pfizer vaccine also has complications as per the study then why no spotlight on it. People die with Pfizer, and more than AstraZeneca per this report. Underlying facts don’t matter to the mainstream media or many in the general public.

Hope that was patronising enough .
That’s not exactly how you presented your argument in your original post. FWIW, I came to a similar conclusion to De Dre. I’m glad you’ve cleared that up now, but it might be worthwile expanding on your point of view in the future.

[Bula]

You have to die of something. At the end of the day you will get the flu, and whether you like it or not you will get Covid, or a mutation of the original Covid 19.

Have the jab, don’t have the jab. Whatever works. Just don’t regret not having the jab when it’s too late.

We have a circuit breaker in this country. Enough time for everyone to make up their own mind. Rely on herd immunity, or risk death associated with a jab. Herd immunity only works when we have enough people brave enough to protect their family by putting their lives on the line. Melodramatic?

Herd immunity has worked with disease and infection of similar R values, so make a choice and let’s move on.

[601]

If you actually listened to the “people shouting in the wind” you’d probably notice a lot of them are frustrated with the apparent lack of plan from the Feds on when things will reopen.

So you want a plan set in concrete when the thing you are planning against is a moving target.
Best have a flexible idea that can change with the moving target.

A good example is QF62. If they had stuck with the "plan" as per the checklist, what would have been the outcome?

We have to deal with what is thrown at us.
Different variants, restrictions of AZ being released from Europe, vaccine hesitancy, etc.

Who thought in March 2020 that we have had less that 1000 deaths in Oz.
Be bl000y thankful that our management has been one of the most successful.
We have an awful lot of "experts" marched out by the media saying we should do this or should have done that.
I would rather go with their cohort who are advising the Government who would have access to the latest information.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Has this changed?
For some, yes
https://simpleflying.com/alliance-vaccination-requirement/

[Foxxster]

The testing for these vaccines have not been remotely as rigorous as previous vaccines.......

One used to choose to go to another country and choose whether to get vaccinated or not.....


very interesting..

from this guy

Byram Bridle, Associate Professor of Viral Immunology at the University of Guelph in Canada . Note the captions are not completely correct. Probably done by a robot.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8LsXGC-g9As

[ScepticalOptomist]

So you want a plan set in concrete…..

Be bl000y thankful that our management has been one of the most successful.


No, we just want A plan. One that is based on sound data and analysis - not a knee jerk reaction.

There hasn’t been any “management” - it’s been a farce - the fact we are an isolated island is what has “saved” us.

The monkeys in charge haven’t managed to get quarantine right, nor implemented a strategy to “open up”. They are reactive and care more about how they look politically than doing the right thing by the country.

The easily impressed and molly
coddled think they’re being “kept safe”.

Lets see what the exit strategies look like and compare notes in a few months time. I reckon we’re not going to be on top of the pack.

[ruprecht]

So you want a plan set in concrete when the thing you are planning against is a moving target.
Best have a flexible idea that can change with the moving target.

The only plan the government is interested in is the plan to get re-elected. Everything else is a sideshow.

[Buster Hyman]

very interesting..

from this guy

Byram Bridle, Associate Professor of Viral Immunology at the University of Guelph in Canada . Note the captions are not completely correct. Probably done by a robot.

Non bot version here...

https://omny.fm/shows/on-point-with-alex-pierson/new-peer-reviewed-study-on-covid-19-vaccines-sugge

[ManillaChillaDilla]

What we are seeing is the political CFIT from both state and federal governments.

The constant failings and avoidable deaths simply cant be explained away.

The smugness of the Federal mob is excrutiating to watch and will have long term consequences for us all.

Professional scum.

MCD.

[jrfsp]

Another case of transmission in HQ, this time in Perth - no risk to the community by the looks of it which is good.

"But it works 99.9% of time"

[Green.Dot]

And at the good old Pan Pacific in Perth. Good thing none of the airline crews stay there.:ugh:

[DirectAnywhere]

The smugness of the Federal mob is excrutiating to watch and will have long term consequences for us all. Professional scum.

Impressive to watch the PM throw Brendan Murphy under the bus in question time today rather than admit that, yes, indeed, the vaccine rollout is a race or admit to any shortcomings in his government's role in it. Disgusting.

[C441]

Impressive to watch the PM throw Brendan Murphy under the bus in question time today rather than admit that, yes, indeed, the vaccine rollout is a race. Disgusting.
Brendan Murphy seems to be quite comfortable with the PM's response in question time….

Brendan Murphy defends Scott Morrison as Labor accuses Prime Minister of deflecting blame (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-01/scott-morrison-brendan-murphy-covid-vaccine-rollout-race/100182520)

[601]

One that is based on sound data and analysis
And as the sound data and analysis change, shall we stick to a now outdated Plan A, or adjust our plan to suit the changing sound data and analysis??

[aviation_enthus]

And as the sound data and analysis change, shall we stick to a now outdated Plan A, or adjust our plan to suit the changing sound data and analysis??

You don’t seem to understand the point multiple people have been making....

Plan A was: “close the border”

Based on almost 18 months of “sound data and analysis” the follow on is????

”crickets”

[ScepticalOptomist]

You don’t seem to understand the point multiple people have been making....

Plan A was: “close the border”

Based on almost 18 months of “sound data and analysis” the follow on is????

”crickets”

Precisely. This is what people like 601 are missing. The knee jerk “shut the border” between the states is WAY outdated - there has been no further development of the plan nor any nuance applied to it.

Anyone who dares question the plan gets the usual “but look what’s happening over there!”

We have zero idea domestically and even less idea what to do internationally.

We will be left quivering like scared children long after the world gets back to business unless the government get a crack on.

[Foxxster]

I think a major issue is the supply of the Pfizer vaccine. I understand it will not be available in large quantities, 1 million a week, until October under current contracts. Currently the number is around 300,000 a week. The bulk of our vaccines are the AstraZeneca. Which has had the scare campaign surrounding it both here and in many other countries.

the Pfizer is needed for a large number of the remaining unvaccinated as they are under 50 or are over 50 but holding out due to the scare campaign, yes including the chook premier in Queensland.

given that, our vaccination rates are still ramping up. Now at 4.24 million. But realistically we are not going to have wide scale opening of international borders until we have at least 50%+ vaccinated, similar to other countries that have or are considering some international travel. Which isn’t going to be until the end of this year at the earliest. And I suspect the same will relate to state borders as well.

having mentioned the scare campaign, that audio report I linked to has some potentially disturbing developments surrounding these vaccines. Which could have very wide implications.

[Lookleft]

Plan B has nothing to do with data or analysis but everything to do with the electoral cycle. Most of the population is quite happy with closed borders and the appearance of a strong government response. Look at the response to getting the vaccine now that there is an outbreak in Victoria. Two weeks ago very few were fronting up for the jab now fear of getting the disease is causing long queues. The next election is due next year well before October 2022. By then memories of closed borders and slow vaccine rollouts will be faded and the incumbent government will look like geniuses.

[megle2]

I’m with Lookleft, the election is Plan B, Plan C is the one you should be referring to

[cessnapete]

I think a major issue is the supply of the Pfizer vaccine. I understand it will not be available in large quantities, 1 million a week, until October under current contracts. Currently the number is around 300,000 a week. The bulk of our vaccines are the AstraZeneca. Which has had the scare campaign surrounding it both here and in many other countries.

the Pfizer is needed for a large number of the remaining unvaccinated as they are under 50 or are over 50 but holding out due to the scare campaign, yes including the chook premier in Queensland.

given that, our vaccination rates are still ramping up. Now at 4.24 million. But realistically we are not going to have wide scale opening of international borders until we have at least 50%+ vaccinated, similar to other countries that have or are considering some international travel. Which isn’t going to be until the end of this year at the earliest. And I suspect the same will relate to state borders as well.

having mentioned the scare campaign, that audio report I linked to has some potentially disturbing developments surrounding these vaccines. Which could have very wide implications.

Oh dear, Re the AZ 'scare". The risk of the AZ vaccine data shows it's far more dangerous to a refuse the vaccine, than the tiny proportion of possible blood clotting.
Large proportion of UK has,(me), and is still having the AZ. So we're all doomed here??

[Cafe City]

Absolutely infuriated with the farce of the vaccine rollout.
Just saw Brisbane 9 News story showing every man and his dog getting Pfizer while a huge % of Phase 1a have not had their first shot!
Muggins here did as we were told and booked for our 1b shots several weeks back and will be another 10 days til I have my first shot.
What the absolute F are you doing Feds and Qld Health?!!!!!!

[Buster Hyman]

Absolutely infuriated with the farce of the vaccine rollout.
Just saw Brisbane 9 News story showing every man and his dog getting Pfizer while a huge % of Phase 1a have not had their first shot!
Muggins here did as we were told and booked for our 1b shots several weeks back and will be another 10 days til I have my first shot.
What the absolute F are you doing Feds and Qld Health?!!!!!!
This whole thing has degenerated into a mud slinging, party aligned mess & there's plenty of blame to share around Federal & State, Libs & Labor! God help us if we ever needed a genuine War Cabinet! :rolleyes:

[Foxxster]

Oh dear, Re the AZ 'scare". The risk of the AZ vaccine data shows it's far more dangerous to a refuse the vaccine, than the tiny proportion of possible blood clotting.
Large proportion of UK has,(me), and is still having the AZ. So we're all doomed here??


being in the UK, you must be fully aware of the European response to AstraZeneca. Care to explain that to us. And why it is not be used in Australia for the under 50 age groups.

I’ll save you some work..

People under 40 will be offered an alternative to the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine where possible and while infection rates remain low, following a recommendation from government advisers.It comes after the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) reviewed the speed and uptake of Covid vaccines in the UK and the latest figures on very rare blood clots after first shots of the AstraZeneca vaccine.


now I am not agreeing with those responses, just pointing out what has happened here and around the world. And yes, there are plenty in the over 50 age group waiting for the Pfizer vaccine because they have been scared off AstraZeneca, including one of our state premiers.

meanwhile..Pfizer's Covid vaccine is the 'probable' cause of heart inflammation in a very small number of people who get the jab, Israel's Health Ministry claimed today.

Analysis of the jab rollout there found there had been 148 cases of myocarditis, the medical name for swelling in the heart, shortly after the patient had been vaccinated.

A total of 275 cases have been spotted so far out of around five million people given the Pfizer jab in Israel, which has had one of the world's most successful jab rollouts. The remaining 127 are thought to have happened later so a link was unclear

shouldn’t there be a scare campaign against Pfizer now.

[Chronic Snoozer]

This whole thing has degenerated into a mud slinging, party aligned mess & there's plenty of blame to share around Federal & State, Libs & Labor! God help us if we ever needed a genuine War Cabinet! :rolleyes:

Dr Strangelove

[Chronic Snoozer]

The 'fast moving beast' (https://www.smh.com.au/national/scientists-find-no-evidence-strain-is-fast-moving-beast-20210602-p57xfk.html)

[ScepticalOptomist]

The 'fast moving beast' (https://www.smh.com.au/national/scientists-find-no-evidence-strain-is-fast-moving-beast-20210602-p57xfk.html)

Of course!

Politics to extend state of emergency etc far more likely a reason that the “Victorian” strain is so “deadly”…

[Cafe City]

Of course!

Politics to extend state of emergency etc far more likely a reason that the “Victorian” strain is so “deadly”…

Yes. The “Humphrey Applby’s” of all Govts are working overtime right now.
More spin than an aft loaded Chipmunk.