All borders to reopen.

[dr dre]

90% (https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/coronavirus/palaszczuk-set-to-reopen-queensland-at-90-per-cent-vaccination-rate/video/3a9713a4b5324ba7e6a0a121ba4f9270)It has been on the news all afternoon.

On Sky “News”, with the usual “is expected to”, “is said to be” and “is set to” with no confirmed quotes or plans, in an article from Peter Gleeson, who’s pretty dumb, even for a Sky “News” hack.

It would be good if whoever’s staffing the various Murdoch entities to talk to each other because their other publication, news.com.au is carrying the quotes of the Premier’s spokesperson denying that article:

Queensland government rejects reports state will stay closed until 90 per cent vaccine coverage (https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/news/palaszczuk-government-rejects-reports-queensland-will-stay-closed-until-90-per-cent-vaccine-coverage/news-story/1d343d1532ae612837d26d4af674e231)

[krismiler]

In Singapore, no one fully vaccinated and below 70 years old has died or been in the ICU. Only 0.38% of fully vaccinated patients in their 70s has been in the ICU or died, this rate is actually lower than for unvaccinated people in their 30s which is 0.84%.

Vaccination rates were going up at about 1% per day but tailed off quite sharply after 80% coverage was reached.

A 90% rate will take a very long time to achieve and isn’t really a practical aim before opening up in Australia.

[ScepticalOptomist]

90% (https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/coronavirus/palaszczuk-set-to-reopen-queensland-at-90-per-cent-vaccination-rate/video/3a9713a4b5324ba7e6a0a121ba4f9270)It has been on the news all afternoon.

Yeah except there wasn’t a firm figure given, but a “maybe” waffle answer. She will do what the polling and public pressure dictate. She’s a true politician in all the worst ways.

[C441]

Thats only an hour old. Palaszczuk told reporters Jeanette Young would like to see up to 90% but looks like she has pushed back on it and won’t be waiting until 90% to reopen.
It seems that Jeanette's advice is not so desirable when it doesn't meet the political narrative. Might be time for her to assume her Governor's duties.

[DirectAnywhere]

It seems that Jeanette's advice is not so desirable when it doesn't meet the political narrative. Might be time for her to assume her Governor's duties.

Looks like she might have backflipped on the backflip though. Non-committal today when asked about the 90% figure. Avoided giving a number, waiting for Doherty modelling to national cabinet in a fortnight. Meanwhile the tourism industry is screaming for certainty. Muppet.

About 12 mins in if you can bear to watch it.

https://youtu.be/RC0unbcBLMU

Direct quote from the Qld Premier, 21/9/21

“National Cabinet is working on a national plan. We are waiting for further information to come from the Doherty Modelling to National Cabinet in a fortnight’s time,” she said.

[Icarus2001]

She claims NATIONAL PLAN now after doing her own thing, just like McClown. Muppets.

[dr dre]

I wonder if most people have read the “National Roadmap”.

It’s a one page PDF.

National Plan to transition Australia’s National COVID-19 Response (https://www.pm.gov.au/sites/default/files/media/national-plan-to-transition-australias-national-covid-19-response-30-july-2021.pdf)

Phase C at 80%:

Measures may include:

Maximise vaccination coverage

Minimum ongoing baseline restrictions,
adjusted to minimise cases without lockdowns

Highly targeted lockdowns only

Continue vaccine booster programme;

Exempt vaccinated residents from all domestic restrictions;

Abolish caps on returning vaccinated Australians;

Allow increased capped entry of student, economic, and humanitarian visa holders;

Lift all restrictions on outbound travel for vaccinated Australians;

Extend travel bubble for unrestricted travel to new candidate countries (Singapore, Pacific)

Gradual reopening of inward and outward international travel with safe countries and proportionate quarantine and reduced requirements for fully vaccinated inbound travellers.

There’s actually nothing in concrete about interstate borders. It is up to individual jurisdictions, like the NT which has said they want more than 80% or Tasmania which has said they’re aiming for 90%.

The point about “exemption of vaccinated residents domestic restrictions” could be interpreted to mean interstate travel for vaccinated residents, but it’s a vague sentence.

The National Roadmap is actually quite lacking in specific detail. Even lockdowns are only used in a “highly targeted” manner, but leaving questions about how that is defined.

[SHVC]

Ahh yes the road map!! Filled with arbitrary numbers and rubbish ideas no where else seems to have such a plan, Australia can do anything bettter. Meanwhile in ML a rioter filled a bottle with urine and hurled it at a journalist our country is no better than any 3rd world $hit hole at the moment. These governments are making sure they send us to economic ruin also. 2022 is shaping up to be one hell of a ride.

[havick]

The national roadmap is so vague, every sentence could be validly interpreted in many different ways. Did they consult CASA to write it?

[43Inches]

A road map that the main road is not controlled by a human at all is going to be vague. It's like letting 10,000 cows loose at one en of a paddock and then asking for the road map of which way they will travel to the other end for feed and water.

The whole idea of drawing up a map for something intangible is just stupid, all it is for is opposition screamers to yell at something when it doesn't go exactly as planned. Where every educated person knows, we are waiting on the right signals to open up, so the goal posts are variable depending on what the virus does next. It's like lets draw a road map for our way out of Afghanistan, and then the Taliban don't follow your rules, dammit, why didn't they stick to our plan....

[Potsie Weber]

Following on from today’s earthquake, the Victorian government has admitted their roadmap possibly has a few cracks in it!

[minigundiplomat]

If we weren’t an international laughing stock, we are now. Only a matter of time before North Korea offers to send peacekeepers to Victoria.

[machtuk]

Just popped in to see/read the same prolific habitual posters saying the same bull****/fear, love it:-)
Now where was I? Oh yeah out in the community un-vaxed & oddly enuf I'm still alive, much to the horror of those that believe I ought to be dead, several times over:-)lol
BTW Australia has always been a laughing stock, couldn't organize a root in a brothel:-)

[benttrees]

Are you seriously posting/gloating on a Professional Pilots forum about a fact that is keeping a very large amount of us out of a job ?

[SOPS]

Just popped in to see/read the same prolific habitual posters saying the same bull****/fear, love it:-)
Now where was I? Oh yeah out in the community un-vaxed & oddly enuf I'm still alive, much to the horror of those that believe I ought to be dead, several times over:-)lol
BTW Australia has always been a laughing stock, couldn't organize a root in a brothel:-)

Seriously… you think that’s a good thing? On a forum like this? You need help.

[Troo believer]

There is a direct statistical correlation between individuals of low cognitive function and vaccine hesitancy.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8133799/

“In conclusion, people with lower scores on standard tests of cognitive function reported being less willing to take up the future offer of vaccination for COVID-19. It is possible that erroneous social media news reports have complicated decision-making. Special efforts should be made to communicate clear information about vaccine efficacy and safety so that everyone—including those who report being less likely to choose vaccination—can make well-informed choices.”

Which group are you in? For or against? Those still pushing the it’s my right not to be vaccinated crap are effectively saying I’m a bit slow on the uptake here yet reinforce the Dunning Kruger Effect of believing their own bullish t.

Watching the moronic behaviour during the Melbourne protest yesterday, it was obvious that the cohort was at the bottom end of the gene pool when intelligence was handed out.

Im not too smart to think how smart I am but certainly not dumb enough to think I’m smart.

[dr dre]

Just popped in to see/read the same prolific habitual posters saying the same bull****/fear, love it:-)
Now where was I? Oh yeah out in the community un-vaxed & oddly enuf I'm still alive, much to the horror of those that believe I ought to be dead, several times over:-)lol
BTW Australia has always been a laughing stock, couldn't organize a root in a brothel:-)

Be careful.

We’re several months behind the rest of the world, but it will be like this soon if you don’t get vaccinated:

Sorry Anti Vaxxer (https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/)

Herman Cain Award (https://old.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/)

All the people featured on those two sites thought they were safe, not elderly, not at risk, had a healthy immune system so no vaccine needed. They weren’t going to be part of a “medical experiment”, they weren’t going to be “sheep” and “blindly obey Dr Fauci and Bill Gates”. They didn’t fall victim to “big pharma” and the lies of the “lame stream media”.

And after all those posts there’s usually a post about testing positive but no need to worry as they have a “healthy immune system”. Then a post asking for Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine. Then a post from their partner or family member informing everyone that person is in hospital on a ventilator. And then the ultimate post of their demise.

This should be a wake up call, these are people aged between 30-60 who maybe healthy or have minor underlying conditions like high blood pressure or being slightly overweight (the overweight BMI is lower than you think) that a large number of people who think they’re otherwise healthy have.

Please, do the right thing by yourself, your family, your friends, your community, your workmates and your industry and get vaccinated.

[Troo believer]

Nailed it
prepared to take Ivermectin but won’t get a vaccine. Natural selection folks.

https://youtu.be/aHZxOpKJ85I

[rattman]

Nailed it
prepared to take Ivermectin but won’t get a vaccine. Natural selection folks.

https://youtu.be/aHZxOpKJ85I


Like my dad wont get vaxxed but asked me the other about using mail forwarders to get ivermectic from india

[SRFred]

Like my dad wont get vaxxed but asked me the other about using mail forwarders to get ivermectic from india

Send him up here and we can put him through the drenching race with the sheep, no worries!

[machtuk]

I see the inept corrupt Govt now say Moderna is only avail for up to 59 yrs olds yet recently I heard that anyone over 16 was eligible, any wonder this country is a working clusterf*ck!

[Derfred]

Why do you care?

[Scooter Rassmussin]

There is no doubt that Borders will not open probably for the foreseeable future.
I see QF group will go into administration, wipe most of their debt and come back leaner and meaner, watch this space !

[Green.Dot]

There is no doubt that Borders will not open probably for the foreseeable future.
I see QF group will go into administration, wipe most of their debt and come back leaner and meaner, watch this space !

I tend to disagree and remain more optimistic about the future than ever. Why? Most Joe Bloes have had enough and share similar views to me.

For those of us who have had both doses of vaccines we want to live our lives and are no longer concerned about contracting COVID. Sure I’d rather not get it but if it kills me in the process after being double vaccinated so be it. Truth is Australia still living under a rock 18 months on is slowly killing all of us.

[WingNut60]

....................... Truth is Australia still living under a rock 18 months on is slowly killing all of us.

Largely because ~ 50% of the eligible population are NOT yet double vaccinated.

[Green.Dot]

Largely because ~ 50% of the eligible population are NOT yet double vaccinated.

Correct, but like it or not we are getting towards our targets

[Ladloy]

Largely because ~ 50% of the eligible population are NOT yet double vaccinated.
and is the fault of the federal government. If we accepted the pfizer deal we'd be laughing right now, instead we're way behind the rest of the developed world.

[galdian]

and is the fault of the federal government. If we accepted the pfizer deal we'd be laughing right now, instead we're way behind the rest of the developed world.

...and if the crystal ball had been more accurate and predicted the media misinformation misrepresentation beatup ****storm about AZ things might have been different.

You'll have your chance to "stick it" to ScoMo sometime in the next 8 months or so.
Don't think you will succeed though, enough time for ScoMo to put lipstick on the past and I don't think enough will vote for Albanese....but how about we wait and see, wouldn't be the first time I've misjudged things.

Reading posts from people who can only bang on about the past - and jeez it's been a brutal 18 months - is just outright depressing.
If your intention is to feed on that depression - free razorblades anyone?? - then press on, you're being unfortunately far too successful in your pursuit IMHO.

For everyone else there is today (you're alive, beats being dead surely?) and with vaccinations ramping realistic expectations that 2022 should/will be heading in the way of "normal".

Cheers.:ok:

[Green.Dot]

Galdian, well said mate. :D And completely agree, the media have done just as much harm to this country while trying to navigate COVID than any Fed/State Govt (Lib or Labor). Saying that the media also appear to be turning a corner in favour of living a life beyond COVID.

[chookcooker]

and is the fault of the federal government. If we accepted the pfizer deal we'd be laughing right now, instead we're way behind the rest of the developed world.
what Pfizer deal?

[Ladloy]

what Pfizer deal?
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/millions-of-doses-pfizer-approached-australia-first-for-vaccine-deal-20210908-p58pv6.html

https://mobile.twitter.com/actualfredsmith/status/1410806121233719298

[SHVC]

Why hasn’t lord daddy if the west put Victoria on extreme risk scale. He didn’t hesitate doing it to NSW, from a numbers perspective (positive results/test conducted) Victoria’s outbreak has been worse than NSW pretty much from the get go.

[WingNut60]

Why hasn’t lord daddy if the west put Victoria on extreme risk scale. He didn’t hesitate doing it to NSW, from a numbers perspective (positive results/test conducted) Victoria’s outbreak has been worse than NSW pretty much from the get go.
Have you ever heard of the AFL Grand Final ........................?

On another note, from another thread, UK is now offering booster shots to anyone over 50 YO starting today.

[SOPS]

Why hasn’t lord daddy if the west put Victoria on extreme risk scale. He didn’t hesitate doing it to NSW, from a numbers perspective (positive results/test conducted) Victoria’s outbreak has been worse than NSW pretty much from the get go.

Um.. it’s is from Wednesday. He gave people 4 days to get home.

[SHVC]

Yes after the GF how convenient. My point is he closed to NSW much sooner than he closed to Vic which from a comparison Victoria outbreak is much worse.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Yes after the GF how convenient. My point is he closed to NSW much sooner than he closed to Vic which from a comparison Victoria outbreak is much worse.

Sounds like an outbreak of common sense. Gives sandgropers till Wednesday night to get back to WA. What else have you got to complain about?

[StudentInDebt]

Yes after the GF how convenient. My point is he closed to NSW much sooner than he closed to Vic which from a comparison Victoria outbreak is much worse.Announced on Friday 20th August to be implemented on Thursday 26th, seems like he gave people in NSW longer - https://www.wa.gov.au/government/announcements/update-controlled-border-nsw

[AerialPerspective]

...and if the crystal ball had been more accurate and predicted the media misinformation misrepresentation beatup ****storm about AZ things might have been different.

You'll have your chance to "stick it" to ScoMo sometime in the next 8 months or so.
Don't think you will succeed though, enough time for ScoMo to put lipstick on the past and I don't think enough will vote for Albanese....but how about we wait and see, wouldn't be the first time I've misjudged things.

Reading posts from people who can only bang on about the past - and jeez it's been a brutal 18 months - is just outright depressing.
If your intention is to feed on that depression - free razorblades anyone?? - then press on, you're being unfortunately far too successful in your pursuit IMHO.

For everyone else there is today (you're alive, beats being dead surely?) and with vaccinations ramping realistic expectations that 2022 should/will be heading in the way of "normal".

Cheers.:ok:

Except it's not just the vaccines, it's the promising to come home from Hawaii then not doing so until 4 hours earlier than he would have, then blaming his kids for wanting a holiday, then saying "I don't hold a hose mate", then forcing people to shake his hand for a photo opportunity, then not delivering the promised funds for rebuilding, but finding thousands for a Twitter 'Ad' for the LNP saying what a great job they're doing, then gutlessly writing a letter to Macron then claiming "the French were told" - add to that Robodebt, all the stuff ups with aged care, the NBN that cost twice as much and was half the system it was planned to be at half the cost and now they're going to spend billions more on fibre to the premises to make it what it should have bloody well been.

Covid is just another example of how this vacuous moron ducks responsibility or confrontation then throws others under the bus or uses weasel words or worse yet, just refuses to answer questions.

On top of that, all these morons marching in the streets saying their 'freedoms' have been taken away, all sleepwalk into a voting booth and vote for a government that has introduced draconian laws that allow even the military to spy on citizens.

Give me a break. The only place for retrospectiveness here is if the numb-skulls that voted for this Christian fascist at the last election had actually not just followed the crowd we may not have been in this position at all - the US had to deal with Trump and for all the criticism of Biden, he's been there 8 months and nearly 70% of the US is double vaccinated.

[SOPS]

Except it's not just the vaccines, it's the promising to come home from Hawaii then not doing so until 4 hours earlier than he would have, then blaming his kids for wanting a holiday, then saying "I don't hold a hose mate", then forcing people to shake his hand for a photo opportunity, then not delivering the promised funds for rebuilding, but finding thousands for a Twitter 'Ad' for the LNP saying what a great job they're doing, then gutlessly writing a letter to Macron then claiming "the French were told" - add to that Robodebt, all the stuff ups with aged care, the NBN that cost twice as much and was half the system it was planned to be at half the cost and now they're going to spend billions more on fibre to the premises to make it what it should have bloody well been.

Covid is just another example of how this vacuous moron ducks responsibility or confrontation then throws others under the bus or uses weasel words or worse yet, just refuses to answer questions.

On top of that, all these morons marching in the streets saying their 'freedoms' have been taken away, all sleepwalk into a voting booth and vote for a government that has introduced draconian laws that allow even the military to spy on citizens.

Give me a break. The only place for retrospectiveness here is if the numb-skulls that voted for this Christian fascist at the last election had actually not just followed the crowd we may not have been in this position at all - the US had to deal with Trump and for all the criticism of Biden, he's been there 8 months and nearly 70% of the US is double vaccinated.

So, I assume you think Bill ‘ let me jog for the camera at any opportunity ‘, would have been a better PM?

And, right now, as we speak, WA is hosting a huge Covid free, mask free, restriction free Grand Final.

If you think after this, there will be any pressure to open the border, think again. No one here wants Gladbags .. we have to live with it and people will die.. it may not last here.. but at the moment life is good. We will keep Mark, you can have Gladys.

[Icarus2001]

Just on one point AerialPerspective, ScoMo is correct, he does not hold a hose but more than that FIRES are well and truly STATE issues, not federal in any way. Now I do agree that going on holiday was not a good look but in a practical sense the PM can and does work from anywhere.

[Transition Layer]

Sounds like an outbreak of common sense. Gives sandgropers till Wednesday night to get back to WA. What else have you got to complain about?
No one should ever be locked out of their home state. It’s horrible and inhumane. Residents should always be allowed to return, and then carry out the necessary quarantine requirements.

[Chronic Snoozer]

No one should ever be locked out of their home state. It’s horrible and inhumane. Residents should always be allowed to return, and then carry out the necessary quarantine requirements.

I agree. Or the country for that matter. But that wasn't the complaint of the OP, it was about inconsistent, allegedly, application of existing 'rules' regarding WA border closures between NSW and VIC. Turns out it wasn't the case.

[murder most fowl]

And, right now, as we speak, WA is hosting a huge Covid free, mask free, restriction free Grand Final.

Have you noticed the crowds at sporting events overseas?

[KRviator]

And, right now, as we speak, WA is hosting a huge Covid free, mask free, restriction free Grand Final.And the only reason WA managed to get the GF for the first time since Federation? A global pandemic - it certainly didn't get it on its' merits!If you think after this, there will be any pressure to open the border, think again. No one here wants Gladbags .. we have to live with it and people will die.. it may not last here.. but at the moment life is good. We will keep Mark, you can have Gladys.Never would I have thought I would see such division between the states in my lifetime. Many of use here, including me, spent many years in the Defence Force serving Australia, not NSW or Qld, yet here we are, the nations largest state, telling the nation's most populous states "Phuck youse lot, we're doing great here and don't give a shyte about what's happening anywhere else, so long as we've got our mining royalties and our Grand Final."

Our forefathers would be turning in their graves seeing what has become of the nation they built, and in many cases died, protecting.... :yuk:

[neville_nobody]

If you think after this, there will be any pressure to open the border, think again. No one here wants Gladbags .. we have to live with it and people will die.. it may not last here.. but at the moment life is good. We will keep Mark, you can have Gladys

I think after your economy blows up next year people will be screaming to open the borders. Everyones happy until it hits their back pocket. The miners will be first and it will flow down from there. They can afford inflated wages alot of other industries can't.

[Green.Dot]

SOPS you certainly aren’t coming across as a team player. People on the other side of the country are at breaking point, and you rub their noses in what they are missing. Pull ya head in.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

I hope that no one in that Optus stadium had covid.......

[Transition Layer]

I hope that no one in that Optus stadium had covid.......
I sincerely hope someone did. An outbreak in WA is the only hope of boosting vaccination rates and rejoining the rest of the country anytime soon.

[dr dre]

I think after your economy blows up next year people will be screaming to open the borders. Everyones happy until it hits their back pocket. The miners will be first and it will flow down from there. They can afford inflated wages alot of other industries can't.

That won’t just affect one state, it’ll affect the whole country. Iron ore is 50% of Australia’s exports, we’ve put all eggs in one basket and that basket is quite fragile, there’s a mine in the west African nation of Guinea that is planning to be outputting 10% of Australia’s total output from that one location alone in a decade.

Long term it’ll hurt the entire nation and all industries, including aviation, and even completely open borders won’t be able to make up for it.

[galdian]

Except it's not just the vaccines, it's the promising to come home from Hawaii then not doing so until 4 hours earlier than he would have, then blaming his kids for wanting a holiday, then saying "I don't hold a hose mate", then forcing people to shake his hand for a photo opportunity, then not delivering the promised funds for rebuilding, but finding thousands for a Twitter 'Ad' for the LNP saying what a great job they're doing, then gutlessly writing a letter to Macron then claiming "the French were told" - add to that Robodebt, all the stuff ups with aged care, the NBN that cost twice as much and was half the system it was planned to be at half the cost and now they're going to spend billions more on fibre to the premises to make it what it should have bloody well been.

Covid is just another example of how this vacuous moron ducks responsibility or confrontation then throws others under the bus or uses weasel words or worse yet, just refuses to answer questions.

On top of that, all these morons marching in the streets saying their 'freedoms' have been taken away, all sleepwalk into a voting booth and vote for a government that has introduced draconian laws that allow even the military to spy on citizens.

Give me a break. The only place for retrospectiveness here is if the numb-skulls that voted for this Christian fascist at the last election had actually not just followed the crowd we may not have been in this position at all - the US had to deal with Trump and for all the criticism of Biden, he's been there 8 months and nearly 70% of the US is double vaccinated.

My point was about the negativity of some just being depressing after 18 **** months.
Hopefully the vaccinations will see 2022 heading to something approaching normal - usual normal or "new normal" or however you want to view it, should be a hell of a lot better than the last 18 months. Seems too hard for some to see it that way.

The political was in direct answer to the posters comment.
They're all as bad as each other, bugger all leadership anywhere that I can see, some dislike ScoMo, some dislike Albo....whatever.
I just stated my thought that at present ScoMo will beat Albo at the next election - wasn't saying he'd be a worthy or deserving winner but in a two horse race that's how I see the result.

Cheers

[MickG0105]

... Iron ore is 50% of Australia’s exports, ...

Less than 40 percent of commodity exports by value, actually.

[Lead Balloon]

And falling...

[YBRM]

The refusal to open the WA border has been a well hidden lie folks.
It has absolutely nothing to do with protecting the mining industry (they're all vaccinated), but everything to do with the absolute failure in the hospital system here, led no less than the ever boasting Labour Government.
As we speak, hospitals here are running at maximum capacity, and that's without Covid in the state.
Fact is that they can't cope with you rocking up with a broken leg, let alone a half a dozen Covid patients needing ICU and O2 machines.
The media seems to not see a need to highlight this fact.......

[WingNut60]

Less than 40 percent of commodity exports by value, actually.
But then ..............



https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/895x415/abs_0a1e1eaf8804092238eece51d6aca514914216ed.jpg


From ABS 2018-19 - the most recent stats that I could find.
Iron prices would need to drop a long way before that 44% (for all export commodities) dropped below the next nearest (Qld).

[WingNut60]

The refusal to open the WA border has been a well hidden lie folks.
It has absolutely nothing to do with protecting the mining industry (they're all vaccinated), but everything to do with the absolute failure in the hospital system here, led no less than the ever boasting Labour Government.
As we speak, hospitals here are running at maximum capacity, and that's without Covid in the state.
Fact is that they can't cope with you rocking up with a broken leg, let alone a half a dozen Covid patients needing ICU and O2 machines.
The media seems to not see a need to highlight this fact.......
I'm not sure that the WA Govt ever specifically said that the border was being closed to protect the mining industry.
Though that is at least partially true and taken as a given.

But anyway, what do you see as being a quick fix for the current situation with hospital waiting times?

[AerialPerspective]

Just on one point AerialPerspective, ScoMo is correct, he does not hold a hose but more than that FIRES are well and truly STATE issues, not federal in any way. Now I do agree that going on holiday was not a good look but in a practical sense the PM can and does work from anywhere.

Yes Icarus, that is true, firefighting is a State responsibility but to effectively quarantine (no pun intended as will be revealed below) the Commonwealth and ScoMo from any responsibility is to ignore reality. First, every previous PM on both sides, including Howard, stayed in the country in summer during what was expected to be a serious time for fires across the country. Secondly, as all on this forum would know, the Commonwealth is responsible for the disposition of ADF assets if allocated to fires/cleanup/support and the Commonwealth has sole responsibility for the registration and certification of aircraft and components which is how the States get their firefighting assets approved to fly here - so, in fact, the Commonwealth is central to the effort and for him (ScoMo) to go away then offer a pathetic excuse such as "... the States didn't ask for help..." is not just excuse-making but callous and ignorant on his part.

While we're on the subject of responsibility. Quarantine is NOT a State responsibility, yet ScoMo was more than happy to suggest it being flicked to the States and has done virtually zero to do anything about taking it back when it has proved that hotels are not designed for quarantine for an airborne disease. Based on his record to date, I have no doubt he orchestrated this so he could blame the States when it went bad, which it did.

Aged Care is a Commonwealth responsibility too - ScoMo is happy for States with a high infection/death rate in FEDERALLY CONTROLLED Aged Care facilities to be blamed for that too, but - and this is an old story with him - his government was warned specifically that the Aged Care sector needed reform and that something such as disease outbreak would be devastating and as usual, he and his band of no-hopers just kicked the can down the road and hoped for the best, including that pathetically inept moron he had running Aged Care who couldn't even estimate how many infections and/or deaths there had been and again fobbed off responsibility after yet another disaster.

Numerous warnings were given about Robodebt and his shower insisted it was all legal and moral - it took a decision in the High Court to ORDER the government to cease and desist on the basis, I believe it was the Justices of the Court that said "... it is nothing more than a State sponsored extortion racket...." (or words to that effect).

None of this is to have a go at you at all, as you were just pointing out a fact about responsibilities but the track record shows that this government and the concept of responsibility are distant strangers.

Every government has its problems and screw ups but this lot have elevated it to a fine art, their true medium is obfuscation of process (sports and 'everything else' rorts, etc.) and to lie, prevaricate and shift blame for things they could have been reasonably expected to know and/or act on earlier.

Not telling the French President until the night before cancelling a major contract, providing the weasel word BS answer to the Porter affair "I'm not his boss anymore" is not just disgusting, it's amoral - and this bloke claims to be a Christian.......

[AerialPerspective]

My point was about the negativity of some just being depressing after 18 **** months.
Hopefully the vaccinations will see 2022 heading to something approaching normal - usual normal or "new normal" or however you want to view it, should be a hell of a lot better than the last 18 months. Seems too hard for some to see it that way.

The political was in direct answer to the posters comment.
They're all as bad as each other, bugger all leadership anywhere that I can see, some dislike ScoMo, some dislike Albo....whatever.
I just stated my thought that at present ScoMo will beat Albo at the next election - wasn't saying he'd be a worthy or deserving winner but in a two horse race that's how I see the result.

Cheers

Absolutely, I wasn't intending to argue with you, just basically state that if there were any morality or justice, this lot would be tossed out on their a-ses, in fact should have been in 2019 and yep, I fully expect there'll be a chance he'll win and if he doesn't, I'm sure there'll be stuff ups by a PM Albo down the track but I find it hard even based on previous LNP governments to expect the level of rorting, obfuscation, lying, corrupt and police-state mentality that has followed this particular government for its entire existance.

As for the electorate, their principal driver in throwing out Rudd and the ALP in 2013 was the entire Rudd/Gillard/Rudd saga - seems that doesn't bother the electorate anymore since they have still voted for a party that did exactly the same thing - not just the Liberals but the Nationals as well.

It has been a sh-t 18 months and I hope (and like you, expect) that things will improve but considering how well we came through the GFC, I just wonder if there might have been a bit less prevarication and a bit more quick action had ScoMo not been there.

[AerialPerspective]

So, I assume you think Bill ‘ let me jog for the camera at any opportunity ‘, would have been a better PM?

And, right now, as we speak, WA is hosting a huge Covid free, mask free, restriction free Grand Final.

If you think after this, there will be any pressure to open the border, think again. No one here wants Gladbags .. we have to live with it and people will die.. it may not last here.. but at the moment life is good. We will keep Mark, you can have Gladys.

I don't know who you were responding to, but it doesn't seem to be me as you appear to be stating what I think anyway.

I have no opinion on Shorten, but I do think based on their handling of previous crises that an ALP government might have been a bit more pro-active in getting ready for this, I don't think Shorten would have gone on an overseas holiday when the country was on fire. Bill never lit the world on fire with his personality and he carried a substantial amount of baggage into the job, including not learning from the lesson of previous oppositions in that presenting a large target gets you beaten. I do however think that franking credits was a totally sensible policy and overdue - it was one of those bribes that Howard dolled out when it cost practically nothing and it has now grown to a ridiculous level - BUT, they should have grandfathered it, to not do so was dumb and arrogant.

I don't actually blame WA for staying closed, if they've basically got to zero covid virtually, why would you open yourself up to the disaster that is Gladwrap.......

[Lead Balloon]

Numerous warnings were given about Robodebt and his shower insisted it was all legal and moral - it took a decision in the High Court to ORDER the government to cease and desist on the basis, I believe it was the Justices of the Court that said "... it is nothing more than a State sponsored extortion racket...." (or words to that effect).That didn't happen. What happened was even more morally egregious.

The Federal Court (not High Court) action was settled without the Commonwealth admitting liability. That's so that the government could claim - and of course has claimed - that no court has found the extortion racket to be unlawful.

A few of the victims had earlier taken the Commonwealth to the AAT, and the Commonwealth would capitulate before any adverse finding. There were plenty of warnings from the AAT, but of course the AAT is not a court...

[MickG0105]

... there’s a mine in the west African nation of Guinea that is planning to be outputting 10% of Australia’s total output from that one location alone ...
Doubtless you have seen the shipping distance from Guinea to China, and are aware of the sort of sovereign and geopolitical risks involved.

[AerialPerspective]

That didn't happen. What happened was even more morally egregious.

The Federal Court (not High Court) action was settled without the Commonwealth admitting liability. That's so that the government could claim - and of course has claimed - that no court has found the extortion racket to be unlawful.

A few of the victims had earlier taken the Commonwealth to the AAT, and the Commonwealth would capitulate before any adverse finding. There were plenty of warnings from the AAT, but of course the AAT is not a court...

I stand corrected....... and in no surprise or shock that it was worse than I had stated.... as for the AAT, it's a well known fact that occasionally, governments of all persuasions nominate or appoint their 'mates' to government bodies - but since 2013, the Federal Government has practically changed the complexion of the AAT by appointing anyone with any link to the LNP - at least one person I can think of in NSW was appointed who's qualifications were allegedly being a Flight Attendant with a major airline and a dedicated supporter of Tony Abbott. I'm not saying the person was a bad individual, just that if the bar has been lowered to that extent, what background or basis are individuals using for their decisions on the AAT.

Fair Work Australia is another example, where the Feds have effectively increased the size of the Fair Work Commission so people of their 'line of thought' or ideology now dominate it. As I stated above, both parties have been known to appoint the occasional mate (Hawke appointing the opposition leader he replaced as GG, etc., McGowan appointing Kim Beazely as State Governor, etc.) but like with so many other things, this current federal government has elevated it to an art form.

Let me see, stealing money off poor people, locking up a family on an island at the cost of millions then finally issuing visas only to leave one of them out (a child) so they can say they did a compassionate thing when they know they did it in a way to obfuscate as usual, doing nothing about Aged Care, cutting funding to everything they don't like, stacking tribunals and courts with their apologists, knowing there's a problem, doing nothing then ducking for cover, refusing to sack a person with a giant question mark over them, then when asked if he has any comment saying "I'm not his boss anymore", rorting every cent that can quietly rort to basically buy votes in marginal LNP seats.

No wonder they don't want a Federal ICAC.......

[Lead Balloon]

Agree entirely. I do laugh that in the mid-2000s a coalition government was on a path to abolish the Commonwealth AAT. Now it's a dumping ground for political mates and others owed favours.

I also laugh at those who think Labor will set up a Federal ICAC with any teeth when it's Labor's next turn in government. The current chest-beating from opposition is easy and risk-free.

[AerialPerspective]

Agree entirely. I do laugh that in the mid-2000s a coalition government was on a path to abolish the Commonwealth AAT. Now it's a dumping ground for political mates and others owed favours.

I also laugh at those who think Labor will set up a Federal ICAC with any teeth when it's Labor's next turn in government. The current chest-beating from opposition is easy and risk-free.

Agree. The only likelihood of it happening is if there is a a proposal and it has amendments forced by the cross-bench and happens at the same time as a critical piece of legislation, enabling those holding the balance of power in the Senate to force it to have teeth.

I completely disagree with the LNP's weak as water proposal in this area but I do agree that there would need to be some sort of catch all that prevents the wasting of public money, if, for instance, a politician inadvertantly carried a paper clip out of the building BUT, it does need to address obvious corruption via a set of basic principles I think.

I don't know why, but it puts me in mind of the manifesto of the Monster Raving Loony Party in the UK....... "If we are elected, we will immediately establish a frivolous fraud squad, in order to take on fraud that is not serious enough for the serious fraud squad."

Another of theirs - "We will ban greyhound racing, in order to stop the country going to the dogs."

[PoppaJo]

Miles today. Why would we open borders and let the virus in this Christmas. I don’t think it’s what Queenslanders want.

Yes Miles!!! It’s what I want. Open the frickin borders, let’s infect everyone and just get the hell on with things right? I mean everyone’s going to get infected anyway right!??

Fools.

[Bend alot]

"The community cases have actually gone up since reaching 80 per cent coverage, in part because we're allowing more social events for those who are vaccinated and, I dare say, more fatigue at the control measures," Mr Cook told the ABC.
"One main lesson from across South-East Asia is that it is incredibly hard to prevent Delta's spread and, as Singapore shows, even high vaccination rates will not help that much,"

Singapore, like Australia, has also not yet opened COVID vaccinations up to children aged under 12.

Dr Leong said 80 per cent was "not good enough because it can still burden the hospital system very significantly and there will be too many excess deaths".

"The numbers are mind-boggling, given what's possible over the next few weeks," he said.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison set a vaccination target as part of his four-step opening plan for Australia (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-04/covid-opening-strategy-federal-state-differences-on-plan/100432944), with phase C triggered when double vaccination reached 80 per cent.

However, Australia's threshold is actually lower because it is based on the population aged over 16.

Singapore's threshold is based on the total population.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-13/singapore-has-80-per-cent-vaccination-but-life-is-not-normal/100450154

[SRFred]

I also laugh at those who think Labor will set up a Federal ICAC with any teeth when it's Labor's next turn in government. The current chest-beating from opposition is easy and risk-free.

You mean like South Australia where all the polles voted to reduce the powers of their ICAC, LOL

[layman]

A Federal ICAC with ‘teeth’ will require a change of govt.

FOI was pushed through parliament in the 1st 6 months of the Hawke govt.

Gareth Evans said he only had 6 months before fellow ministers would start to realise the implications & want to water it down (or not pass it all).

[Lead Balloon]

Yep. If some fundamental change isn't legislated within the first 6 or so months of a new government, it's almost certainly doomed to gather dust until the next election.

[unexplained blip]

I'm not sure that the WA Govt ever specifically said that the border was being closed to protect the mining industry.
Though that is at least partially true and taken as a given.

But anyway, what do you see as being a quick fix for the current situation with hospital waiting times?

Not being in WA and not being in favour of under-investing in health, however, supply of trained medical staff would be the limiting factor, as opposed to (say) any shortage of mullah or will. Those staff take a long time (longer than his COVID episode) to make/acquire. If someone in WA Govt recognised the health system as a vulnerability then the main reasonable/viable course of action would be to keep the threats out, rather than attempt to build up response capacity when the personnel are not available.

The health sector is very well versed in restricting supply of trained professionals in order to preserve salaries and hierarchy. The widespread use of telehealth has been by necessity and it took the emergence of COVID to break down the institutional barriers. The long term question is around whether the health sector is prepared to improve its scalability and flexibility post-COVID. Otherwise the blame for capacity shortfalls will continue to lie equally between govt and the sector itself IMHO.

[SOPS]

SOPS you certainly aren’t coming across as a team player. People on the other side of the country are at breaking point, and you rub their noses in what they are missing. Pull ya head in.


As in a team player… let it into WA and go for it? As Gladys says…. We will live with it and people will die..? That’s the team player plan?

[WingNut60]

Not being in WA and not being in favour of under-investing in health, however, supply of trained medical staff would be the limiting factor, as opposed to (say) any shortage of mullah or will. Those staff take a long time (longer than his COVID episode) to make/acquire. If someone in WA Govt recognised the health system as a vulnerability then the main reasonable/viable course of action would be to keep the threats out, rather than attempt to build up response capacity when the personnel are not available.

The health sector is very well versed in restricting supply of trained professionals in order to preserve salaries and hierarchy. The widespread use of telehealth has been by necessity and it took the emergence of COVID to break down the institutional barriers. The long term question is around whether the health sector is prepared to improve its scalability and flexibility post-COVID. Otherwise the blame for capacity shortfalls will continue to lie equally between govt and the sector itself IMHO.
Not far off the mark as part of the basis for a long-term strategy.
Again, I'm not sure there is a quick fix in there though.
And I don't think there is any quick fix at all that doesn't involve opening the border to skilled immigration.

ScoMo, over to you.

[unexplained blip]

... And I don't think there is any quick fix at all that doesn't involve opening the border to skilled immigration.


Amen to that... although maybe the last thing Asia would need right now is Australian carrots being waved in front of their doctors and nurses.

[layman]

Heard today from a friend who's daughter works as a doctor in a SE Qld hospital.

Little / no elective surgery as they are keeping beds 'free' for the expected post 70-80% Covid surge.

Adding this to the tales of 'ramping' in a number of states, it would seem that the hospitals are likely to be the limiting factor when attempting to open up (capacity and/or staffing)

[WingNut60]

Heard today from a friend who's daughter works as a doctor in a SE Qld hospital.

Little / no elective surgery as they are keeping beds 'free' for the expected post 70-80% Covid surge.

Adding this to the tales of 'ramping' in a number of states, it would seem that the hospitals are likely to be the limiting factor when attempting to open up (capacity and/or staffing)
Talking to a friend in Alberta this morning - Edmonton hospitals are full to the brim with all elective surgery on hold.

Alberta vaccination rate - 82.3% - at least one jab - 12 Y.O.+
- 73.4% FULLY VACCINATED - 12 Y.O.+

Since Jan 1, 2021, 0.3% of people with one dose (9,228/3,070,711) were diagnosed with COVID-19 14 days after the first immunization date

Since Jan 1, 2021, 0.4% of people with two doses (12,307/2,753,156) were diagnosed with COVID-19 14 days after the second immunization date

87.8% of cases (162,507/185,093) since Jan 1, 2021 were unvaccinated or diagnosed within two weeks from the first dose immunization date

87.3% of hospitalized cases (7,366/8,442) since Jan 1, 2021 were unvaccinated or diagnosed within two weeks from the first dose immunization date

80.1% of COVID-19 deaths (871/1,088) since Jan 1, 2021 were unvaccinated or diagnosed within two weeks from the first dose immunization date

I am told that ICU space is currently being allocated on a "best chance of survival" basis.

[Gnadenburg]

I am told that ICU space is currently being allocated on a "best chance of survival" basis.

This is why I think the reluctant vaxers on this thread are mugs. COVID is largely a preventable disease by vaccination and ICU care still offers survivability with breakthrough infections.

So they've droned on within these pages, holier than thou, smarter than thou, yet you can bet, when they or their family start coughing themselves to death, they will want an ICU bed. It is not unlikely that if the medical system broke down, the triage system would be brutal, with many older vaccinated Australians denied ICU beds to protect the reluctant vaxers now commanding intensive medical care (despite their choice not to vaccinate ).

[Scooter Rassmussin]

I still say Borders to never open and QF group administration in 2022 !

[PoppaJo]

I still say Borders to never open and QF group administration in 2022 !
Also is considerable cash burn in off shore parts of the business like Jetstar Japan and Singapore which really need to be cut loose. Those will be bleeding for a long while yet.

[KRviator]

I still say Borders to never open and QF group administration in 2022 !The million dollar question is "Will Joe Q Public really give a damn if QF goes under because of the border bollocks?" and following on from that "Will Joe Q Public take it out on the politicians at the ballot box?"

Going by what is purported to be the sentiment in WA & Qld, the answer is a clear and unequivocal "NO!"

[cloudsurfng]

I still say Borders to never open and QF group administration in 2022 !


The share price would seem to indicate otherwise.

[Icarus2001]

AerialPerspective, thanks for the polite reply, a surprise on this forum. I cannot disagree with most of what you say. Have you really checked the location of all previous Australian PMs over summer to claim they stayed home? If so I tip my hat to you. It is odd that ScoMo as a marketing person, seems blind to what gets referred to now as the “optics” of a situation. Going on holiday, forced shaking hands etc. Howard had a much better nose for the impact and read the mood well.
As for ScoMo upsetting the French, well, C’est La Vie. A storm in a teacup whipped along by left leaning media. Have we forgotten about the Rainbow Warrior and nuclear testing in Muroroa Atoll? How did the French react to our concerns? So the Australian government put our interests ahead of the French in a wise decision to (finally) go nuclear. Let them eat cake.

[neville_nobody]

The share price would seem to indicate otherwise.

The share price doesn't indicate solvency of a company. Share price could be sky high and you wake up to find they are shuttering the joint.

[KRviator]

The latest from Red Rat:Qantas reroutes direct Perth to London flight, delays Sydney, Melbourne flights amid border restrictions
Christmas reunions could be off the cards for some West Australians, after Qantas announced it would delay introducing more flights between Perth and both Sydney and Melbourne due to WA’s border restrictions.

Limited flights currently operate on routes between Perth and both Sydney and Melbourne, and more flights will not be added until at least the beginning of February. In a statement, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce said the changes followed talks with WA authorities.

"Based on our discussions with Western Australia we know their borders won't be open to New South Wales and Victoria until early next year, so we've sadly had to cancel the flying we had planned on those routes in the lead-up to Christmas," he said.Qantas said it would continue to conduct return flights between Perth and both Melbourne and Sydney five times a week to maintain "minimum connections" for those who are granted permission to travel into WA.

"At this stage, WA doesn't intend to open to international travel until sometime next year, so we'll unfortunately have to temporarily move our Perth-London service until at least April 2022," Mr Joyce said.

Qantas had flagged the possible change in late August, but confirmed the decision on Monday. Mr Joyce said the London flight would instead depart from Melbourne and stop in either Darwin or Singapore, depending on the outcome of conversations with Northern Territory authorities.

"We look forward to operating this flight via Perth again when circumstances allow," Mr Joyce said. Qantas said it was still on track to "gradually restart" international travel from December 18.

Mr Joyce said in August it would be a "terrible shame" if people could travel to London before they could travel to Perth – a comment WA Premier Mark McGowan swiftly rejected at the time. Source (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-27/qantas-direct-perth-to-london-flight-rerouted-wa-covid-borders/100494302)What's that? The State Daddy thinking people from Sydney & Melbourne won't be able to Perth, Scotland, before they can get to Perth WA?

Seems Qantas thinks differently. With a bit of luck, the NT Government will see the benefit of having QF keep QF9/10 going via Darwin long after McGowan pulls his head out of his asre.

[dr dre]

The latest from Red Rat:What's that? The State Daddy thinking people from Sydney & Melbourne won't be able to Perth, Scotland, before they can get to Perth WA?

Seems Qantas thinks differently. With a bit of luck, the NT Government will see the benefit of having QF keep QF9/10 going via Darwin long after McGowan pulls his head out of his asre.

Well with NT Chief Minister Gunner's statements I don't know how they'll reconcile this:

"Speaking to ABC Radio Darwin on Tuesday morning, Mr Gunner said it was unlikely the Territory's hard border with New South Wales and Victoria would drop before December 25. I can't see — certainly in New South Wales — I can't see that clearing up before Christmas," Mr Gunner told the program. It's more the method of quarantine and whether they're hotspots or not. I can't see that cooling before Christmas."

"Chief Minister Michael Gunner says more than 80 per cent of people in the Northern Territory may need to be fully vaccinated to avoid future snap lockdowns."

“We have 20 ICU beds in the Territory. We can probably assign eight of them for Covid patients.”

With those statements I can't see the NT government allowing travelers from either NSW, Victoria or the UK wander around freely come this Christmas, so I'd say more likely to be going via Singapore temporarily.

They'll definitely come back to Perth-London, they have stated this quite clearly in their press release today. The reason for this is simple:

2016 Census those born in either England, Scotland or Ireland by City:
Perth 215,382
Sydney 189,409
Melbourne 166,768
Darwin 5,596

[KRviator]

The Territory hard border with NSW has nothing whatsoever to do with being able to transit through Darwin airport.

In the same manner as if you flew from Hobart-Sydney, overnighted in Sydney and then caught your flight to Darwin, you are not taken to have been in a Covid hotspot. You are not "entering the NT" until you leave Darwin airport per se' - and the NT allows travellers from outside a hotspot to transit through a hotspot to get to the NT if needed, by staying overnight. Same as I currently hold valid passes to enter both Qld and Victoria so long as I do not leave the airport grounds and then fly back out of the state - but I cannot enter either by road. :ugh:

[SOPS]

I can tell you one thing for sure. If ScoMo doesn’t stop this “ all borders must be open by Christmas “ stuff , he won’t be PM for much longer because he will lose every seat in WA. I know people, here in WA, who want the borders ( including the international one), closed permanently. It doesn’t matter if you think that is silly or not, the general feeling in WA is to keep things as they are. And if QF takes it ball and goes home, I don’t think many people will mind.

[PoppaJo]

Expect the airlines to shift capacity elsewhere and Perth will return to the place of high airfares for the foreseeable future. It will be cheaper to fly Perth to East Coast via Singapore, but why should the airlines keep hanging around waiting though.

People do reach breaking point eventually you can’t stay shut off forever.

[dr dre]

I can tell you one thing for sure. If ScoMo doesn’t stop this “ all borders must be open by Christmas “ stuff , he won’t be PM for much longer because he will lose every seat in WA.

Actually last Roy Morgan poll had the LNP up in WA in the federal vote by a slight margin, and any other poll didn't show a huge jump to the ALP.

I know people, here in WA, who want the borders ( including the international one), closed permanently.

Any hard evidence for that being widespread? I found an opinion poll from October (https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/west-australian-poll-shows-significant-support-for-the-easing-of-the-states-hard-border-c-1465725) last year, when there was no vaccine and Victoria's large outbreak had occurred, and even then a majority wanted more clarity when things would open. There were also polls with some questions like "should borders be open a various vaccine rates? or should states be forced to open? etc, but I've never seen a poll asking about a forever closure, and any poll of Secessionism was a minority, and then probably answered in the affirmative as a joke. Even in that case it doesn't mean a permanent close. And do those people you know WA is actually open to more jurisdictions today than NSW is?

[cloudsurfng]

I can tell you one thing for sure. If ScoMo doesn’t stop this “ all borders must be open by Christmas “ stuff , he won’t be PM for much longer because he will lose every seat in WA. I know people, here in WA, who want the borders ( including the international one), closed permanently. It doesn’t matter if you think that is silly or not, the general feeling in WA is to keep things as they are. And if QF takes it ball and goes home, I don’t think many people will mind.


there are stupid people everywhere I guess. WA just seems to have a higher per capita amount

[dr dre]

The Territory hard border with NSW has nothing whatsoever to do with being able to transit through Darwin airport.


At the end of the day the amount of people flying from Hobart to Sydney to overnight then to Darwin then to London would be quite limited. The goal is to have people who would wander around the city and then spend some money in the local economy, and I don't think the NT is at a stage where they are ready for that at Christmas from overseas or NSW. If you're talking about just connecting domestic flights transferring to an international flight, WA allows transit for passengers through the terminal, up to 8 hrs or 72hrs if they want to spend it in a quarantine hotel. I take it the NT's rules around Christmas would be similar, and Perth Terminals are better sized to take transit passengers at the moment than Darwin, although I think it'd more likely be Singapore temporarily due Changi's better pandemic transit setup.

[SOPS]

Actually last Roy Morgan poll had the LNP up in WA in the federal vote by a slight margin, and any other poll didn't show a huge jump to the ALP.



Any hard evidence for that being widespread? I found an opinion poll from October (https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/west-australian-poll-shows-significant-support-for-the-easing-of-the-states-hard-border-c-1465725) last year, when there was no vaccine and Victoria's large outbreak had occurred, and even then a majority wanted more clarity when things would open. There were also polls with some questions like "should borders be open a various vaccine rates? or should states be forced to open? etc, but I've never seen a poll asking about a forever closure, and any poll of Secessionism was a minority, and then probably answered in the affirmative as a joke. Even in that case it doesn't mean a permanent close. And do those people you know WA is actually open to more jurisdictions today than NSW is?


I know of one big poll …it was called the State Election. That was fought on one major issue, Mark McGowans border policy. I think the results speak for themselves. And the state budget, released earlier this month, assumed a gradual reopening of international borders between July and September 2022.

[KRviator]

I know of one big poll …it was called the State Election. That was fought on one major issue, Mark McGowans border policy. I think the results speak for themselves.Indeed they do.

As a one-trick-pony, McGowan excels. Keeping people focussed on his Covid response - which, let's face it - was nothing more than shutting the door to keep the boogey man out kept people from scrutinising his management of the rest of the state, for example, the health system that has had negative trends in key measures for the last several years, where ambulance ramping is currently at record levels and elective surgeries are having to be cancelled because the existing system - that he's overseen for years, remember - cannot cope. It truly is no wonder he is so desperate to keep Covid out of WA, because god knows the WA health system isn't capable of managing itself right now - without Covid!

But yep, he won the vote because he kept attention away from where it needed to be and their citizens lapped it up. :yuk:

[dr dre]

I know of one big poll …it was called the State Election. That was fought on one major issue, Mark McGowans border policy. I think the results speak for themselves. And the state budget, released earlier this month, assumed a gradual reopening of international borders between July and September 2022.

Budget assumptions forecast a worse case scenario, and aren't always accurate.

Last year's budget assumed a WA Border closure until April 2021, as outlined in this headline in this news.com.au (https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/western-australia-plans-to-keep-border-closed-until-april-2021/news-story/2c7fef67decd118732712a428be96394) article published on October 7th which announces it like a it's a definite confirmed decision:

Western Australia plans to keep border closed to April 2021
Details buried within the federal budget apparently reveal a quiet plot to keep one Australian state's borders closed for six more months

What day did they announce the ending of the complete hard border to all states? October 29th, 22 days later.

[AerialPerspective]

AerialPerspective, thanks for the polite reply, a surprise on this forum. I cannot disagree with most of what you say. Have you really checked the location of all previous Australian PMs over summer to claim they stayed home? If so I tip my hat to you. It is odd that ScoMo as a marketing person, seems blind to what gets referred to now as the “optics” of a situation. Going on holiday, forced shaking hands etc. Howard had a much better nose for the impact and read the mood well.
As for ScoMo upsetting the French, well, C’est La Vie. A storm in a teacup whipped along by left leaning media. Have we forgotten about the Rainbow Warrior and nuclear testing in Muroroa Atoll? How did the French react to our concerns? So the Australian government put our interests ahead of the French in a wise decision to (finally) go nuclear. Let them eat cake.

No problem Icarus, I haven't checked but there was a program I saw around the time it happened (I should have said all 'recent' PMs, meaning the last 30-40 years) and in the program they went through with someone who had researched it, the PMs that had instead stayed at home or spent their holidays in summer at a favourite holiday spot - I think for Howard, it was Hawkes Nest.

Yes, for someone with that background, it is unfathomable that he would not understand that concept. I just think he is intellectually incapable of seeing the obvious a la 'gee, this could blow up in my/our face(s)' as you state Howard, and I would add; Keating, Hawke, Rudd, even Abbott and Turnbull, etc. all seemed to be able to gauge with a few exceptions as always - e.g. Howard remained silent on the 'actual' situation with the Tampa to let the electorate go with the flow to win the election, then was very careful afterward to manage any mention of it - his government's relentless and disgusting pursuit of Andrew Wilkie who essentially was a whistle blower on the matter is, I believe, one of the real reasons Wilkie was never going to back the LNP in 2010 as it was his opportunity to stick the knife deep into people who had made his life hell for telling the truth.

As for the French, yes, I was just noting that a true statesman(person????) with guts and decency would have said to Macron months ago, this is a sh-t show and we're becoming concerned it's not what we want - rather than, as he always does, never considering the potential mess then trying to avoid it or manage it which I think just means he is essentially lazy minded and gutless. I know this might upset some people, but religion has no special protection from criticism as far as I'm concerned and I would just say, it's not entirely surprising considering that he is too lazy to think past invisible man in the sky stuff and attends a religious institution where people 'speak in tongues' and the like. I don't think you can be a forward thinker if you accept that nonsense without question - and surprisingly for a 'Christian' he seems to have no morality that I can detect.

However, I was just saying to someone the other day - the only power that the French have exercised in the Pacific that I have seen in my lifetime has been to try and avoid for as long as possible the granting of independence to their former colonies, preferring instead to let off nuclear bombs in their backyard and then laughingly claim that Tahiti and New Caledonia, et al are 'part of metropolitan France'....... when question about his specific objection to these tests in Parliament one day I can only echo then PM Paul Keating's response something like "... most other Nations who have nuclear weapons, which we also object to them testing, such as the Chinese, at least have the decency to do it in their own back yard. Then we have this fallacy that it's part of France - Oh, yes. There are Polynesians all the way down from Aix-en-Provence. They pop out of the woodwork. They are doing Polynesian dances in the back end of the Loire Valley, in the walled city of Carcassone, in the lovely humidity of Aix-en-Provence. There are Polynesians everywhere." Love him or hate him, it was a perfect response to the hypocrisy of the French testing and even more fitting now they are claiming to be a 'Pacific Power'.

Hmmm, I think they were not a Pacific power when the Japanese were rampaging through the Pacific in WWII, when Australians and Americans were dying to stop them in PNG, no French around then - What's that I say "You were fighting off Hitler"....... Yes, and I wonder who was helping you....

So, yeh, very little sympathy for the French who I think were looking to take Australia's ridiculous request of turning a nuclear sub into a diesel-electric and milking it for everything it was worth.

At least, despite the way it was made, the right decision has now been made where we hopefully get some version of the Virginia Class SSN which is years ahead of everyone else. I've seen some reporting that we might not be able to lease subs from the USN but I notice in their inventory, among the Los Angeles Class which are slowly being retired, there are at least two Los Angeles Class SSNs in 'reserve'.

[SHVC]

I for one, couldn't care less if WA permanently closed domestically and internationally. I actually hope they do stay closed as planned for April 2022. You can all watch us from a far moving on with life.

[PoppaJo]

Vax numbers out. Queensland nowhere in sight. 80% might need to be downgraded for SA/NT/WA/QLD to 70%.

Canberra and Geelong looking like will be the most vaccinated jurisdictions on earth if they keep going.

Great work Dr Young.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1073x773/4993907b_279f_4ac0_adcd_d0d5a513c8b3_059c12d89a813adb10c6143 f9918885a30902e32.jpeg

[AerialPerspective]

The Territory hard border with NSW has nothing whatsoever to do with being able to transit through Darwin airport.

In the same manner as if you flew from Hobart-Sydney, overnighted in Sydney and then caught your flight to Darwin, you are not taken to have been in a Covid hotspot. You are not "entering the NT" until you leave Darwin airport per se' - and the NT allows travellers from outside a hotspot to transit through a hotspot to get to the NT if needed, by staying overnight. Same as I currently hold valid passes to enter both Qld and Victoria so long as I do not leave the airport grounds and then fly back out of the state - but I cannot enter either by road. :ugh:

It should be noted however that NT (and the ACT) are not States and don't have the same powers.

Both are Commonwealth Territories and they have local legislatures ONLY because the Commonwealth granted them, they have Senate representation ONLY because the Commonwealth granted them 2 Senators each and their citizens can vote in Constitutional Referenda only because the Commonwealth instigated a constitutional amendment in the 70s to allow their votes to count toward a national total in a referendum but not contribute of course to the majority of State(s) vote and anything they pass in their Assemblies can be overridden by an Act of the Commonwealth Parliament - witness the NT's Euthanasia legislation some years back, overridden immediately by the Commonwealth Parliament.

As such, neither have 'State's Rights' so whether people agree or not, if the Commonwealth Parliament says they open up, then they open up. That would of course cause an almighty sh-t-storm, especially if there were covid deaths as a result so I won't hold my breath for the current government to do such a thing (or any future federal government for that matter).

[Colonel_Klink]

I can tell you one thing for sure. If ScoMo doesn’t stop this “ all borders must be open by Christmas “ stuff , he won’t be PM for much longer because he will lose every seat in WA. I know people, here in WA, who want the borders ( including the international one), closed permanently. It doesn’t matter if you think that is silly or not, the general feeling in WA is to keep things as they are. And if QF takes it ball and goes home, I don’t think many people will mind.


Respectfully, it actually does matter what these people think. The idea of having the border closed permanently is nothing short of idiotic and that point needs to be clearly articulated to these people.

We elect our politicians to lead the country and not take these populist positions that are currently taking place (A fanciful concept I know). What the WA and QLD premiers are doing is made all the more disgraceful by the fact that they have both recently been re elected. They can move away from popularism and lead their states (and in turn the rest of the country) out of the pandemic towards Covid Normal.

Love him or hate him, what John Howard did after Port Arthur with gun control was incredibly unpopular with his voter base - but he knew it was the right thing to do and so acted decisively and lead the country through that turbulent time. That was one of the last times a political leader in this country has actually had the courage of their convictions to make an unpopular decision.

Keeping the state borders closed is disastrous for the economy in the long run, is disastrous for those that are away from home / family for whatever reason and is slowly but surely killing the aviation industry (rather relevant given this is a professional pilot forum).

So I will call it out now - anyone that is advocating for state borders to remain closed once the country reaches 80% vaccination rate should be quickly told in no uncertain terms to pull their heads in.

[Lead Balloon]

As such, neither have 'State's Rights' so whether people agree or not, if the Commonwealth Parliament says they open up, then they open up. That would of course cause an almighty sh-t-storm, especially if there were covid deaths as a result so I won't hold my breath for the current government to do such a thing (or any future federal government for that matter).It would create a bottom burp, not a sh_t-orm, for precisely the reason you identified. And the ACT's borders are effectively open, anyway. The Chief Minister has already acknowledged that it's not practical to try to keep them closed.
Love him or hate him, what John Howard did after Port Arthur with gun control was incredibly unpopular with his voter base - but he knew it was the right thing to do and so acted decisively and lead the country through that turbulent time. That was one of the last times a political leader in this country has actually had the courage of their convictions to make an unpopular decision.Hear! Hear!

I think the tobacco plain packaging legislation was another example. Well done the Gillard government.

And Tony Abbott made the correct call on the subs replacement.

If there's a change of government at the next federal election and a federal ICAC with real teeth is not immediately legislated by the incoming Labor government, it's another few years at least of waiting until there's any hope of it being implemented.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Respectfully, it actually does matter what these people think. The idea of having the border closed permanently is nothing short of idiotic and that point needs to be clearly articulated to these people.

We elect our politicians to lead the country and not take these populist positions that are currently taking place (A fanciful concept I know). What the WA and QLD premiers are doing is made all the more disgraceful by the fact that they have both recently been re elected. They can move away from popularism and lead their states (and in turn the rest of the country) out of the pandemic towards Covid Normal.

Love him or hate him, what John Howard did after Port Arthur with gun control was incredibly unpopular with his voter base - but he knew it was the right thing to do and so acted decisively and lead the country through that turbulent time. That was one of the last times a political leader in this country has actually had the courage of their convictions to make an unpopular decision.

Keeping the state borders closed is disastrous for the economy in the long run, is disastrous for those that are away from home / family for whatever reason and is slowly but surely killing the aviation industry (rather relevant given this is a professional pilot forum).

So I will call it out now - anyone that is advocating for state borders to remain closed once the country reaches 80% vaccination rate should be quickly told in no uncertain terms to pull their heads in.

Couldn’t agree with you more.

[dr dre]

Vax numbers out. Queensland nowhere in sight. 80% might need to be downgraded for SA/NT/WA/QLD to 70%.



You realise more supply was given to NSW then Victoria over the last few months due to the situation in those states?

[Green.Dot]

As in a team player… let it into WA and go for it? As Gladys says…. We will live with it and people will die..? That’s the team player plan?

Spot on, everyone in a team has to do some heavy lifting at some stage. Assuming WA is in fact in team Australia?

[lc_461]

Team Australia.. ACT leading the way in nearly every metric. And also 'donating' 10% of their allocation to the surrounding NSW region without making a song and dance...
Labor govt as well.

[WingNut60]

Spot on, everyone in a team has to do some heavy lifting at some stage. Assuming WA is in fact in team Australia?
Team Australia? No problem.
Team Gladys? I don't think so.

[KRviator]

Team Australia? No problem.
Team Gladys? I don't think so.Guess you'd be happy for Gladys to stop all international arrivals coming through Sydney airport then? I mean, since she's not in your team anymore....I'm sure the 77,000 extra people that came in through Sydney over and above NSW's fair share appreciate Gladys being a team player and shouldering the lions share of the risk.

Here's the latest BTRE international passenger data (https://www.bitre.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/webmonthlyairportjune2021.xlsx), from April 2020 to June 2021 (the latest month for which figures are available). The percentages are those of inbound travelers of the total, and the state percentage of the total Australian population, (https://www.abs.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/australias-population-grew-13-cent) to show which states are pulling their weight and who isn't. I'm guessing (as the data does not distinguish either way) that the BTRE excludes repatriation flights, as Darwin should have significantly more than that shown, but it'd be unlikely to skew the percentages significantly over 500,000 returnee's.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/730x316/borderpercentages_a3b1bfa636f4537c69efe56d989b9e30b6b67ac5.j pg

[galdian]

Team Australia? No problem.
Team Gladys? I don't think so.

Gladys (and to a lesser extent Chairman Dan) have decided at some stage crash through or crash will be required. That time - for them - is now.

Totally depends on whether you believe Delta can be eradicated/suppressed or similar.
Personally I don't think it can be, others may disagree, fair enough.

I believe Delta will force all states/territories to have their own crash through or crash moments.
I can't see - logically - any other expectation.

Cheers.

[Potsie Weber]

Respectfully, it actually does matter what these people think. The idea of having the border closed permanently is nothing short of idiotic and that point needs to be clearly articulated to these people.

We elect our politicians to lead the country and not take these populist positions that are currently taking place (A fanciful concept I know). What the WA and QLD premiers are doing is made all the more disgraceful by the fact that they have both recently been re elected. They can move away from popularism and lead their states (and in turn the rest of the country) out of the pandemic towards Covid Normal.

Love him or hate him, what John Howard did after Port Arthur with gun control was incredibly unpopular with his voter base - but he knew it was the right thing to do and so acted decisively and lead the country through that turbulent time. That was one of the last times a political leader in this country has actually had the courage of their convictions to make an unpopular decision.

Keeping the state borders closed is disastrous for the economy in the long run, is disastrous for those that are away from home / family for whatever reason and is slowly but surely killing the aviation industry (rather relevant given this is a professional pilot forum).

So I will call it out now - anyone that is advocating for state borders to remain closed once the country reaches 80% vaccination rate should be quickly told in no uncertain terms to pull their heads in.

I don’t think it’s as simple as that. Howard brought in gun control to prevent people dying, opening up a COVID free state, even at 80% vaccination, will cause a spike in deaths from zero to wherever. NSW and VIC are lucky in a way, they don’t have to make that decision, to willingly allow COVID in. They will likely see a rise in deaths, but they aren’t going from COVID zero, and I believe that makes it very different. I wonder what Chairman Dan’s attitude would be if Victoria was sitting on zero COVID at the moment? Even NSW might be more hesitant if they had zero COVID and WA or QLD had significant community spread.

Im in no way saying COVID zero is a viable strategy, but I do understand the decision to open up from COVID zero is not that straight forward.

[galdian]

I don’t think it’s as simple as that. Howard brought in gun control to prevent people dying, opening up a COVID free state, even at 80% vaccination, will cause a spike in deaths from zero to wherever. NSW and VIC are lucky in a way, they don’t have to make that decision, to willingly allow COVID in. They will likely see a rise in deaths, but they aren’t going from COVID zero, and I believe that makes it very different. I wonder what Chairman Dan’s attitude would be if Victoria was sitting on zero COVID at the moment? Even NSW might be more hesitant if they had zero COVID and WA or QLD had significant community spread.

Im in no way saying COVID zero is a viable strategy, but I do understand the decision to open up from COVID zero is not that straight forward.

No offence - but who the f**k cares what Chairman Dan might/might not do if Victoria was zero COVID.
We're NOT - and NSW is NOT - so what's the way forward?

Look forward...like, you know...the future rather than...the past. :ugh:

Cheers.

[WingNut60]

Gladys (and to a lesser extent Chairman Dan) have decided at some stage crash through or crash will be required. That time - for them - is now.

Totally depends on whether you believe Delta can be eradicated/suppressed or similar.
Personally I don't think it can be, others may disagree, fair enough.

I believe Delta will force all states/territories to have their own crash through or crash moments.
I can't see - logically - any other expectation.

Cheers.
Yes. I agree.
But I think that time is when everyone who wants to get vaccinated has either been vaccinated or has had a reasonable opportunity to do so.
And not before.

[galdian]

Yes. I agree.
But I think that time is when everyone who wants to get vaccinated has either been vaccinated or has had a reasonable opportunity to do so.
And not before.

I thought that's what all the "70%, 80%" stuff was about in determining when things could/should open up?
Completely agree it should me more looked at as everyone who wants to be vacc'd has had the opportunity, I would hope that approximates the 70-80% stuff which appears accepted as the baseline to work from.

Then lets just throw in a few "90%" comments to confuse the punters - leadership at its best.

Cheers

[WingNut60]

I thought that's what all the "70%, 80%" stuff was about in determining when things could/should open up?
Completely agree it should me more looked at as everyone who wants to be vacc'd has had the opportunity, I would hope that approximates the 70-80% stuff which appears accepted as the baseline to work from.

Then lets just throw in a few "90%" comments to confuse the punters - leadership at its best.

Cheers
The 70 / 80% proposal has NEVER been sufficiently explained to the Oz public.
Ask most which group the 70 - 80% applies to and they'll have no idea.
And do the masses understand that these rates are all about keeping the health systems in functioning order and that preventing deaths is only a side-benefit?
I doubt it.

And to relax controls before everyone who wants it has had the opportunity for double vaccination is morally reprehensible.

[neville_nobody]

And to relax controls before everyone who wants it has had the opportunity for double vaccination is morally reprehensible.

But leaving people to die alone, blowing up the economy, taking away people's lively hood, destroying businesses isn't???

[PoppaJo]

Looks like Queensland’s time is up.

A outbreak is about the only thing that will get this woeful vax rate up. My fellow citizens up here need a massive kick up the ar$e.

[WingNut60]

But leaving people to die alone, blowing up the economy, taking away people's lively hood, destroying businesses isn't???
That's not happening on this side of the continent.
But may well happen if the controls are relaxed too early.

[No Idea Either]

But she says ‘there’s no need to panic’ PoppaJo, not yet at least….maybe after the grand final though, then she’ll panic. Oh the hypocrisy of it all………

[WingNut60]

But she says ‘there’s no need to panic’ PoppaJo, not yet at least….maybe after the grand final though, then she’ll panic. Oh the hypocrisy of it all………
Principles vs $$$$$$

[Chronic Snoozer]

The 70 / 80% proposal has NEVER been sufficiently explained to the Oz public.
Ask most which group the 70 - 80% applies to and they'll have no idea.
And do the masses understand that these rates are all about keeping the health systems in functioning order and that preventing deaths is only a side-benefit?
I doubt it.

And to relax controls before everyone who wants it has had the opportunity for double vaccination is morally reprehensible.

As is sitting on a billion dollar surplus while overseeing a maxed-out health system; COVID not included.

[WingNut60]

As is sitting on a billion dollar surplus while overseeing a maxed-out health system; COVID not included.
I confess that, luckily, I have no idea of the extent to which the WA Health system is maxed out, or otherwise.
Nor do I know where the problem might lie. I last heard that the Fiona Stanley Hospital had floors still empty.
I suspect that it's mainly about lack of staff rather than facilities. I stand to be corrected.

McGowan is doing himself no favours by failing to respond to the criticism.

But I do refer to my previous post; what is the quick fix for the current situation?
I can see no improvement in staffing levels until the international border opens and immigration resumes.

[Lead Balloon]

Yep. It has little to do with money and much to do with expertise.

Without immigration Australia's public health system would collapse. That's why there's an ongoing scramble to import expertise through Australia's 'closed' international borders.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Yep. It has little to do with money and much to do with expertise.

Without immigration Australia's public health system would collapse. That's why there's an ongoing scramble to import expertise through Australia's 'closed' international borders.

Why not pay nurses etc what they're worth? Why the need for immigration? PPP could be the reason. There's plenty of problems money can fix.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/wa-doctors-think-about-early-retirement-going-private-as-morale-in-hospitals-plummets-20210928-p58vb0.html

And to be fair they are claiming to be doing something about it but it's questionable why this wasn't done sooner.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/more-staff-beds-services-state-government-injects-billions-into-struggling-health-system-20210808-p58guu.html

[Lead Balloon]

Questionable? It's unquestionably abject incompetence.

But because Australia's used to make the quickest buck the laziest way, it's become highly dependent on the immigration Ponzi scheme. It's impossible to grow enough doctors and nurses quickly enough locally, because it's just that.

[Green.Dot]

Looks like Queensland’s time is up.

A outbreak is about the only thing that will get this woeful vax rate up. My fellow citizens up here need a massive kick up the ar$e.

So Anna, will it be go ahead with the NRL grand final or keep Queenslanders safe? I know you are completely genuine with the later, so surely money won’t be a consideration will it? :}

[galdian]

Wasn't Queen P having a soiree of her couple of hundred/thousand closest money contributors in the near future.

Now will THAT continue, one must get one's priorities straight.

[SHVC]

The NRL GF will go ahead no doubts there. Come Tuesday tho, state wide lockdown have to quach the virus, QLDnrs you’re doing a great job blah blah blah. Whilst NSW, ACT and Victoria will very much enjoy a 2019 style xmas I think QLD will be spending it alone and isolated not only from the country, but, even their next door neighbors. .

[ChrisJ800]

They only start lockdowns in school holidays!

[layman]

Victoria reported 1,438 cases yesterday.

Also reported that 93% of these cases were unvaccinated.

In a couple of weeks about 7% of theses cases will end up in hospital (~100) with about 1% (~14) likely to end up in ICU.

The unvaccinated are going to cause the hospital system grief for some time yet.

[AerialPerspective]

News in the last few hours which I'm sure everyone has heard via other means but Gladys has resigned. Expects the party to elect a new leader/Premier in the next few days and she will also resign from Parliament.

Apparently the ICAC Inquiry hasn't gone away and she's seen a sword and fallen on it.

[blubak]

Victoria reported 1,438 cases yesterday.

Also reported that 93% of these cases were unvaccinated.

In a couple of weeks about 7% of theses cases will end up in hospital (~100) with about 1% (~14) likely to end up in ICU.

The unvaccinated are going to cause the hospital system grief for some time yet.
Thats a huge % unvaccinated,i guess there will always be those who shout conspiracy but for the average guy in the street why would you take the risk.

[lc_461]

With ScoMo opening the international borders, I can now feasibly travel Sydney to Singapore, before I can go to Brisbane or Perth. Or Adelaide or Hobart for that matter.
A pleasing step but still incredibly frustrating!

[StudentInDebt]

With ScoMo opening the international borders, I can now feasibly travel Sydney to Singapore, before I can go to Brisbane or Perth. Or Adelaide or Hobart for that matter.
A pleasing step but still incredibly frustrating!is that correct?

https://safetravel.ica.gov.sg/australia/atp/notice
Short-term visitors with travel history to Australia, within the last 21 days before departure for Singapore, will not be allowed to enter Singapore with effect from 2 July 2021, 2359hrs (Singapore time). Please refer to the press release here (https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/updates-on-border-measures-for-travellers-from-australia-and-guangdong-province-mainland-china) issued by the Singapore Ministry of Health (MOH) dated 30 June 2021.

With immediate effect, applications for the ATP for short-term visitors travelling from Australia will be suspended until further notice.

[Colonel_Klink]

News in the last few hours which I'm sure everyone has heard via other means but Gladys has resigned. Expects the party to elect a new leader/Premier in the next few days and she will also resign from Parliament.

Apparently the ICAC Inquiry hasn't gone away and she's seen a sword and fallen on it.

Let’s hope this has no bearing on NSW’s plan to open up….

[Angle of Attack]

is that correct?

https://safetravel.ica.gov.sg/australia/atp/notice
Quote:
Short-term visitors with travel history to Australia, within the last 21 days before departure for Singapore, will not be allowed to enter Singapore with effect from 2 July 2021, 2359hrs (Singapore time). Please refer to the press release here (https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/updates-on-border-measures-for-travellers-from-australia-and-guangdong-province-mainland-china) issued by the Singapore Ministry of Health (MOH) dated 30 June 2021.

With immediate effect, applications for the ATP for short-term visitors travelling from Australia will be suspended until further notice.

Not sure about SIN, that info is a little old but UK and USA will be fine. I think there is a slight issue with the US recognising the Aussie AZ but that will be sorted. If SIN still hold the same requirements well, they are destroying their hopes of them being an effective hub carrier. In fact I think a lot of the big hub carriers futures are in doubt.

[AerialPerspective]

Let’s hope this has no bearing on NSW’s plan to open up….

I doubt it will, but it's probably more bad news for Morrison, a scandal in the biggest State and one he's accused of being PM of (a la 'Prime Minister for NSW') as it's one of the States he has to hold in next years election. Although there has been some signs (such as not confirming he's going to Glasgow later in the year) that some are pointing to as potential that we could be looking at a November/December Federal Election. IMHO that would be idiotic, just out of lockdown to put poeple in queues at polling places just to make sure there's every chance for the virus to spread.......

[Ladloy]

I doubt it will, but it's probably more bad news for Morrison, a scandal in the biggest State and one he's accused of being PM of (a la 'Prime Minister for NSW') as it's one of the States he has to hold in next years election. Although there has been some signs (such as not confirming he's going to Glasgow later in the year) that some are pointing to as potential that we could be looking at a November/December Federal Election. IMHO that would be idiotic, just out of lockdown to put poeple in queues at polling places just to make sure there's every chance for the virus to spread.......
Judging by the 'should've been Dan' content on social media I doubt there will be any effect on voting intention.

[Green.Dot]

Judging by the 'should've been Dan' content on social media I doubt there will be any effect on voting intention.

Difference is Dan wouldn’t have resigned or stepped aside. So we’d be stuck with him regardless, just like now. Sadly the slogan hasn’t aged well.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x517/1004f5df_8da0_4625_b781_dd669c4b755e_39e27c7ab917f66c2d49967 e51c20a4bad19888e.jpeg

[Ladloy]

Difference is Dan wouldn’t have resigned or stepped aside. So we’d be stuck with him regardless, just like now. Sadly the slogan hasn’t aged well.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x517/1004f5df_8da0_4625_b781_dd669c4b755e_39e27c7ab917f66c2d49967 e51c20a4bad19888e.jpeg
That's a big assumption

[AerialPerspective]

Judging by the 'should've been Dan' content on social media I doubt there will be any effect on voting intention.

Maybe check the reputation of the LNP in the Hunter and surrounding regions, all areas the Feds need to hold or gain to retain office. Despite ScoMo's perceived actions during Covid, he and his government really deserve to lose for what has now been 9 years of failure on every front and yet another revolving door of PMs - I'm really looking forward to the fibre I'm now going to get to my house (NBN) after this shower said it was too expensive, then spent billions more to replace copper with copper and are now planning to spend billions on top to put the fibre in anyway. That is just one example, apart from threatening to lock up journalists, lawyers and anyone else who goes against them (many volunteer organisations have been screwed by this government because of their comments against its social policies such as robo-debt and the like), stacking the FWC and the AAT, the latter with people with zero experience but an affiliation to their ideology, allowing the aged-care sector to descend into chaos despite being warned. Too many others to list, including rorts that basically paid their way to an election victory and were deliberately hidden. Jesus Christ, back a few years ago, Dutton even considered raiding the journalist and other person(s) who he thought might have leaked the 'Au Pairs' info.

I don't care what people think of the ALP, they couldn't possibly be worse than these morons.

And, just a tip, social media (aka 'twitter storms' and 'trending' on facebook) are basically an amplification of a vocal minority, they do not represent reality. The Victorian people on a whole are widely supportive of Dan Andrews - the so-called protesters are NOT protesters, they are rancid scum who throw rocks, bottles and urine on police and journalists and desecrate public property and they do not confine themselves to those acts either, with many health organisations having had to direct their nurses and doctors to remove or cover up any identifying clothing or badges/passes to avoid what has happened recently, including abuse of health workers in the street on their way to work and the closure of a vaccination hub because health workers were abused and were doused in urine. Not many Victorians have problems with the police dousing them in capsicum spray or using rubber bullets because they are sick to death of these morons on our streets (not to mention the thousands of cases of Covid that have resulted).

I actually think there's a coiled spring in the electorate that is just waiting to take out all it's frustrations on Morrison and his government.

The last election (2019) when people were all saying the ALP and Shorten were going to trounce the LNP, I was saying that the election was going to be a LOT closer than everyone and the polls were saying. This time I estimate it will be a lot LESS close than people expect, there is a feeling out there that just one too many lies and BS excuses has been spouted by the happy-clappy-slogan-bogan and like happened with Howard, he just lied too many times and eventually people decided whatever came next was worth a try.

I'm not taking a position or advocating what should happen, despite my feelings about the pathetic performance of this government (I could say the same about pink bats) but just what I see in comments people make to me, there is a palpable sense of anger and it's not what is imagined to be portrayed by the rioters and their Sky After Dark amplification system.

[Keg]

If Twitter was the real world the Greens would be in charge, the entire nation would be in lock down, and those fortunate to be working would be paying 60% in tax.

[43Inches]

Judging by what I see on my feeds a lot of 'Dan' haters don't even live in Victoria. Same as those hating on McGowan are not from WA. Not saying that anti Dan people don't exist in Victoria and Melbourne, they most definitely do, but a lot of the waft is from people not in that state. As far as the so called tradie protests, every tradie I know hates them because they blame them for not being able to work, not Dan. Apparently there's a glut of 'only used once' hi-vis work wear on ebay since the protests.

and those fortunate to be working would be paying 60% in tax.

That's not far off the true situation for any high earner when you add in GST, import duties, hidden taxes and stamp duties, fuel exise, etc etc.

[Ladloy]

If Twitter was the real world the Greens would be in charge, the entire nation would be in lock down, and those fortunate to be working would be paying 60% in tax.
If you're the top 5% of income earners maybe, but a quick look through their taxation policy there's nothing to say they want to increase tax on the median income.

[Telfer86]

Its hard not to bite on Political Dogma you have to put up with in Vic

Number plates that proudly proclaim "The Education State" , my understanding is that the calibre of year 12 standards in Vic is now pretty much the lowest
of the mainland states from likely at the to in 70/80s (thanks Joan)

Can somebody answer me this please

Cases currently circa 1500 per day in Melbourne/Vict (its a one city state), and rising rapidly - could bust through 3000 in a couple of weeks (& let's just
hope that does not happen)

Who will let Melb people into their state for Christmas - 80 days away ?

WA definite no, Tas seems very cautious - I would say no

Qld probably no ? ; story the other day about a ton of qld residents being locked out camping on NSW border , waiting to return to Qld for long time now

SA , not sure ; NT - who knows

NSW again not sure , the challenge might be getting back to Victoria from NSW

Great the vax rates are going up but even at >70% , nudging 80% of over 16s are the non-covid states really going to say
yes we don't give a rats about your case numbers , they have no relevance - the Vics are more than welcome to travel to our state

Would very much like to take a break from Melb (full vax etc) , but for the life of me would not understand why a covid-free jurisdiction would
let us in as we will bring death & destruction to you

Why also is Vict talking about "opening up" and easing restrictions when the graph of +ve case numbers is looking , well really rather vertical
What am I missing in this little scenario , why can't I see the happy & wonderful picture(succulent Roast Turkeys & families together from all over Australia)
that the Politicians seem to repeat & repeat & repeat ?

[SHVC]

Because you have to open up, you can not stay locked away expecting to get to and stay at zero covid it’s lunacy. Open the god damn country up.

[PoppaJo]

Would very much like to take a break from Melb (full vax etc) , but for the life of me would not understand why a covid-free jurisdiction would
let us in as we will bring death & destruction to you



Watch these idiots up North here shortly. They will open up, and as it should, virus in and people infected. Borders closed and Lockdown imposed. Life will be good down South.

Anna won’t be imposing lockdown restrictions on me at 90%. Police can fine me all they want. Absolute madness. Canavan will have a meltdown.

[KRviator]

Even Jacinda has revoked her "Covid-Zero" target today. I do thoroughly enjoy how politicians everywhere weasel out of their previous commitments.

Under mounting pressure, Ms Ardern said her strategy was never to have zero cases, but to aggressively stamp out the virus.We don't want Covid Zero but we do want to aggressively stamp out the virus. Idungeddit...:ugh:

[Ladloy]

Even Jacinda has revoked her "Covid-Zero" target today. I do thoroughly enjoy how politicians everywhere weasel out of their previous commitments.

We don't want Covid Zero but we do want to aggressively stamp out the virus. Idungeddit...:ugh:
That was always part of the plan though? Not to weasel but to progressively move to living with covid ONCE the vaccine numbers are reached. Gladys just forced it early resulting in more deaths.

[Fuel-Off]

[QUOTE=Gladys just forced it early resulting in more deaths.[/QUOTE]

Good luck with getting people vaccinated promptly with no virus about. Look no further than those sand gropers out West and banana benders up North. They lag behind the rest of the country with vaccinations because there's no virus!

The outbreaks that NSW and VIC are experiencing now is the cricket bat to the face that the country needed to collectively wake up the population that they are not immune from this worldwide pandemic.

[PoppaJo]

Good luck with getting people vaccinated promptly with no virus about. Look no further than those sand gropers out West and banana benders up North. They lag behind the rest of the country with vaccinations because there's no virus!

The outbreaks that NSW and VIC are experiencing now is the cricket bat to the face that the country needed to collectively wake up the population that they are not immune from this worldwide pandemic.
We are screaming out for a Delta outbreak. Everyone needs a massive kick up the ar$e up here.

Quite astonishing how many people in my local area have no interest in any vaccine. I reckon not even half my street has had it.

[blubak]

We are screaming out for a Delta outbreak. Everyone needs a massive kick up the ar$e up here.

Quite astonishing how many people in my local area have no interest in any vaccine. I reckon not even half my street has had it.
Better make sure the chook gets her money for hospitals before that happens but as a safeguard just encourage everyone to get jabbed,it really doesnt hurt!

[Ladloy]

Good luck with getting people vaccinated promptly with no virus about. Look no further than those sand gropers out West and banana benders up North. They lag behind the rest of the country with vaccinations because there's no virus!

The outbreaks that NSW and VIC are experiencing now is the cricket bat to the face that the country needed to collectively wake up the population that they are not immune from this worldwide pandemic.
Vaccine levels would have been adequate with more vaccine supply, much earlier than planned. They had the chance to do so.

[Fuel-Off]

Vaccine levels would have been adequate with more vaccine supply, much earlier than planned. They had the chance to do so.

Supply would never had been an issue if the government had ordered enough of the stuff in the first place. How many phone calls did Pfizer make to the Health Minister before he picked up the phone (compared to the other way round - like it should've been). Worldwide, governments were making deals in July, ours didn't make one until NOVEMBER and yet we were 'ahead of the queue'. And the media generated hysteria around AZ - talk about an abortion.

But of course both State and Federal governments were resting on their laurels, no covid, we're all safe and it's not a race (to get vaccinated). Complacency set in and Australia is a good six months behind the rest of the world from opening up again (in QLD and WA's case, if ever).

Sydney and Melbourne certainly were the 'outbreaks we had to have' (sorry Mr Keating).

[SHVC]

The feds did order enough vaccine they had two choices they made it and supply would never had been an issue. The media tarnished the AZ so bad no one wanted it. The same issue could of happened if they went with Pfizer and it’s issues with the heart.

[43Inches]

AZ stuffed up about November last year when its final trial was not accepted by the FDA due to not enough over 60s being included in the cohort. That is when the media first latched onto it, and then they followed up when it started having the clot issues. AZ is partly to blame for the media issues because of how they handled the final trial. They still haven't bothered to try to re-certify with the FDA as they really don't care, hence why its not available in the USA. The issue the feds had is that they put all their eggs in the AZ basket and didn't want to bargain with the other makers. The UK, Europe, USA all had large amounts of doses from at least 2 or 3 manufacturers. Australia was left with AZ and a dribble of Pf due to the poor planning at the start.

BTW Fiji has been using a lot of unwanted Australian AZ to get its population up above 50% DD. I found this amusing FAQ note in the Fiji's Department of health;Is the COVID-19 vaccine evil?

This claim has no scientific basis and is not based on fact. What we do know is that getting a COVID-19 vaccine can help protect you and those around you against the COVID-19 disease.


Can science prove a vaccine evil? or not...

[shortshortz]

Vaccine levels would have been adequate with more vaccine supply, much earlier than planned. They had the chance to do so.

Risk compensation would've driven it, CSL was making plenty of AZ back in February

[601]

The issue the feds had is that they put all their eggs in the AZ basket and didn't want to bargain with the other makers.
Not quite correct. Better do a little more research.

So, no, I don’t blame the media. If the politicians reported the true state of the nation, the vaccines, the risks, the data, and actually honoured the population and the media with the intelligence to interpret the real facts, then I think most of us would feel respected rather than assuming we are being lied to every time they open their mouths.

The trouble I have with the media is that we are fed the media's opinion of the news, not the factual news.
I had the AZ as soon as I could get it based on what facts I could read, not the opinion on the so called jurnos we have in OZ.

One of the other problems is that we are have to many "authorities" in Oz.
One approves a vaccine for use by over 16 yo based on trials and another contradicts that approval limiting the use to a particular cohort.
This is what the media in Oz loves, a conflict, especially if they can involve our elected reps.

[Derfred]

I had the AZ as soon as I could get it based on what facts I could read, not the opinion on the so called jurnos we have in OZ.

So did I. Except that I had mine in March, before any negative AZ news came to light.


The trouble I have with the media is that we are fed the media's opinion of the news, not the factual news.


Agreed. Once the Astra-Zeneca TTS side-effect became news in Australia in April 2021, I could not find one major news outlet in Australia who was interested in providing the actual data. On either side of the political media fence that is so prevalent in this country, The data was easily obtainable, I subsequently discovered, on the UK public health website. Interestingly, that data did not support what our politicians were saying, nor did it support what our left nor right leaning media were saying. It was as if either no-one cared about the truth, or the entire media and political system considered that the truth didn’t matter anymore.

The argument seemed to have devolved into pure politics and/or spin.

The Governments of the Day (all of them, Fed and State), enjoyed palming off the decision making to non-elected “Health Officials”. That was worse, because the “health officials” ended up coming across as even more biased than the politicians! Did they provide the data? No. Did they provide any evidence for their decisions? No. Was there any transparency to the data flow that led to their decision making processes? No. Could they be questioned? No.

The decisions were being made on “the best available medical advice”. Well, I can’t argue about that. It’s midnight and I have an itchy arse. The best available medical advice to me right now is coming from my dog, and you might prefer that I don’t share what he is suggesting.

But my dog knows where his next feed comes from, and he will provide whatever medical advice is necessary to ensure he gets a feed tomorrow morning, no matter how unpalatable or how unnatural it might feel for him right now.

For those of you who have got to this part and have read my entire post (jokes aside), ask yourself - am I pro AZ or am I anti AZ? Or am I arguing something else?

[MickG0105]

... CSL was making plenty of AZ back in February
Not really. They had batches of the AstraZeneca vaccine in production but nothing had reached the pre-release fill and finish stage until late March.

[Clare Prop]

People forget that a lot of eggs, 51m doses, were in the University of Queensland basket before their trial had to stop.

[PoppaJo]

Victoria surging ahead in second doses. Looks like Victoria will be as little as 10 days behind NSW 80% for its 80%. Game over down south in 3 weeks.

Queensland nowhere in bloody sight. Game over up here in 2022 it seems.

[KRviator]

Victoria surging ahead in second doses. Looks like Victoria will be as little as 10 days behind NSW 80% for its 80%. Game over down south in 3 weeks.

Queensland nowhere in bloody sight. Game over up here in 2022 it seems.They need to. I don't think they'll tip over 2,000 during the weekend due lower testing numbers, but next week I wouldn't be surprised to see 2,000-2,250 new cases a day.

And remember kiddies, Cases are baaaaad, mmkay? :ugh:

Here's a nice pretty graphic (yes, it's from The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-interactive/2021/oct/08/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-australia-vaccination-rate-progress-how-many-people-vaccinated-percent-tracker-australian-states-number-total-daily-live-data-stats-updates-news-schedule-tracking-chart-percentage-new-cases-today), but base data is apparently State Health Dept figures) that gives a nice visual representation as to how the various states are tracking. Of course, the multi-billion-dollar question is "What good are target dates if the Premiers don't give a fig about them anyway?!?"
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/889x575/vaxtgtdates_f15e8c62b376eb71434ea92c40f391611b831215.jpg

[Ladloy]

They need to. I don't think they'll tip over 2,000 during the weekend due lower testing numbers, but next week I wouldn't be surprised to see 2,000-2,250 new cases a day.

And remember kiddies, Cases are baaaaad, mmkay? :ugh:

Here's a nice pretty graphic (yes, it's from The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-interactive/2021/oct/08/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-australia-vaccination-rate-progress-how-many-people-vaccinated-percent-tracker-australian-states-number-total-daily-live-data-stats-updates-news-schedule-tracking-chart-percentage-new-cases-today), but base data is apparently State Health Dept figures) that gives a nice visual representation as to how the various states are tracking. Of course, the multi-billion-dollar question is "What good are target dates if the Premiers don't give a fig about them anyway?!?"
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/889x575/vaxtgtdates_f15e8c62b376eb71434ea92c40f391611b831215.jpg
Sydney will explode next week (case rate being shown the week after) too. Everyone finally gets their freedom and hopefully the anti vaxxers don't flood the hospitals like in the US.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

Sydney will explode next week (case rate being shown the week after) too. Everyone finally gets their freedom and hopefully the anti vaxxers don't flood the hospitals like in the US.

As the vaccine doesn’t work on approximately 2-3% of people they may need hospital beds for those vaccinated, assuming 6 million people that’s 120,000 to 180,000 extra beds needed for the next 12 months or less , MELBOURNE the same .
So I’d assume borders to close fairly early in the new Year .

[SOPS]

As soon as NSW and Victoria explode, you can forget any hope of WA borders coming down, Mark McGowan had stated clearly he is waiting to see what happens on the Eastern States.

[601]

Victoria has reported a record 1965 new COVID-19 cases in the past 24 hours, and five further deaths.
That would be 7600 equivalent Australia wide.

[dr dre]

As soon as NSW and Victoria explode, you can forget any hope of WA borders coming down, Mark McGowan had stated clearly he is waiting to see what happens on the Eastern States.

“Explode!” Very dramatic.

Actually a change in tone this week, the WA Health Minister spoke about how masks will be reintroduced (https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7454859/wa-vaccine-dodgers-to-face-consequences/) prior to reopening borders and flagged capacity limits. Also stated that reopening will be towards the end of the year (not next year) in line with other currently Covid Zero states, and warning unvaccinated they’ll face restrictions once reopening.

All of this talk to start shifting the mindset of the population to get used to a “living with Covid” mindset rather than a zero one, and it’s the type of talk that is required now.

[aviation_enthus]

That would be 7600 equivalent Australia wide.

Thats assuming a nice even distribution of cases. Which given the size of our country is highly unlikely.

Even the difference between Vic and NSW right now isn’t close to what you are suggesting.

The USA had peaks in different states at different times.

The UK had waves move through different regions as well.

So did China.

I could go on…

[aviation_enthus]

As soon as NSW and Victoria explode, you can forget any hope of WA borders coming down, Mark McGowan had stated clearly he is waiting to see what happens on the Eastern States.

Yes don’t worry, I’ve noticed all the experts are out already peddling the doom and gloom that is about to befall NSW cause the new Premier has brought forward some easing of rules.

Same doom and gloom was pushed in the UK right before they eased up (at a much lower vaccination rate too!!). But low and behold, the worst didn’t happen and life resumed.

Australia will open eventually. WA will get cases again. You’re living in a dream land if you think WA can hide forever. Eventually the virus will get in, so you’re all better off getting vaccinated and opening up.

[brokenagain]

As soon as NSW and Victoria explode, you can forget any hope of WA borders coming down, Mark McGowan had stated clearly he is waiting to see what happens on the Eastern States.

Watch the tune of Sandgropers start to change once they see New South Welshmen and Victorians travelling overseas.

If only Chairman MaoGowan had spent the last 18 months bolstering his faltering health system instead of playing border politics he might not be in this position where he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Same goes for Palacechook and her work experience child deputy premier up north.

[krismiler]

In Singapore, the experience has been that +98% of COVID cases have little or no symptoms, 1% need oxygen and 0.2% in the ICU. Most of those needing oxygen or ICU are over 60 years old. Almost all deaths have been unvaccinated senior citizens with underlying health problems.

As of yesterday 83% of the population are vaccinated, booster shots are being offered to those who were jabbed 6+ months ago.

[Chris2303]

As of yesterday 83% of the population are vaccinated, booster shots are being offered to those who were jabbed 6+ months ago.

What was the primary vaccine and are they using the same manufacturer's product for the booster?

[krismiler]

The primary was Pfizer-Biontech and all three jabs I had were the same brand. As of yesterday, 98.4% of those infected have little or no symptoms, probably because there are so few unvaccinated people left to become ill and drag the average down if they catch the virus.

1.3% need oxygen, 0.1% ICU and 0.2% have died. 83% of the population are fully vaccinated with 85% having had at least one dose. New cases 3700 yesterday.

I hope the Australian government is watching Singapore's experience carefully. Daily case numbers rocketed over the last month, however the numbers in hospital on oxygen or in the ICU increased at a far lower rate and was easily manageable.

[KRviator]

November 1st looks like a goer.But only in and out of the East Coast it seems...

Westyrannical Australia appears to be quite happy to stay in their Covid-Zero bubble.

Western Australia could remain closed for months after the international border ban is lifted but Premier Mark McGowan says it’s not a “big problem”.

Asked what he thought about the possibility of most Australians being able to fly to Paris but not Perth during a Friday press conference, Mr McGowan said: “I don’t think that is a big problem. Western Australia will open up internationally at some point in time and it’s probably just a difference of months between us and other states, in particular Victoria and NSW,” he said.

“If that means in the interim we don’t have mass deaths, we don’t have huge dislocation in our economy, we don’t have lots of people losing their jobs, well then I think the choice is clear. “We wait till it’s safe.”Then there's But the WA Premier confirmed his expectation the reopening date would be “sometime next year” and claimed initially international travel would be a “NSW thing”. It’s really a NSW thing at this point in time,” he said. “I think the view is that if people from NSW want to fly overseas and come back they’re really not adding to the risk because NSW is highly infected.”

Mr McGowan said international travel was unlikely to change the risk profile in NSW which is currently in the middle of a major Delta outbreak of the virus. Source (https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/politics/paris-open-perth-closed-mcgowan-defends-tough-travel-controls-after-pm-lifts-border-ban/news-story/23f80bb9a5b0ca9cb2ea7ec2aa506363)

Of course, then there's this pearler:
Speaking on Friday afternoon, McGowan said people could fly to Sydney and then out of the country when the international travel ban lifts - but they may not be allowed back into Western Australia.

“My advice would be don’t do that unless you want to spend a lot of time in Paris or NSW,” he said. Source (https://7news.com.au/travel/mark-mcgowan-says-was-international-border-wont-reopen-according-to-pms-timeline-c-4123738)Nothing like being able to fly home from Paris, but not continue on to Perth... :ugh:

[Transition Layer]

This guy must really dislike his own family in NSW. Guess he doesn’t want them coming to Xmas in Rocko! They can FaceTime him from Singapore, it’s the same time zone at least :}

[machtuk]

McClown now has the worlds longest Covid (rabbit) proof fence, the idiot is welcome to it!

[Ladloy]

But only in and out of the East Coast it seems...

Westyrannical Australia appears to be quite happy to stay in their Covid-Zero bubble.

Then there's

Of course, then there's this pearler:
Nothing like being able to fly home from Paris, but not continue on to Perth... :ugh:
The price you pay for being virtually unaffected for the last 18 months.

[PoppaJo]

I sincerely hope if a positive person finds themselves on say, a ML-SY flight next month once borders are open, the entire manifest and crew does not need to isolate for a fortnight.

I see a Virgin flight today, one kid positive, everyone into isolation at a medi hotel.

Going to be positive kids on all flights shortly as they don’t have a vax approved yet.

[dr dre]

This guy must really dislike his own family in NSW. Guess he doesn’t want them coming to Xmas in Rocko! They can FaceTime him from Singapore, it’s the same time zone at least :}

Actually you might have some reason to be hopeful, the Health Minister this week indicated reopening would be, like all other states, around “end of the year”. We know the Covid chief has been given a Dec 31 deadline, the mining industry has been mandated and remote indigenous communities will preparing to be be separately isolated whilst the rest of the state is open. That was a concern that the entire state would be isolated while remote community vax rates remained low but now it seems they’ll independently isolated whilst the rest of the state is open. We know the WA first doses plus forward bookings are over 80% and pretty much all get one dose get two, and as the need for vaccines in NSW is decreased this can be redistributed elsewhere. I believed they’ve bought bookings forward which has also bought the projected 80% date forward too.

Seems to be a change in tone, with the government now taking about mask mandates and capacity restrictions in order to change the mindset of population. My personal thought is a hustle to get vaccinated pre Christmas and a reopening close to it, and I think they’ll be very close to when Qld, SA, Tas and NT open, a matter of a few weeks at most.

[Ladloy]

I sincerely hope if a positive person finds themselves on say, a ML-SY flight next month once borders are open, the entire manifest and crew does not need to isolate for a fortnight.

I see a Virgin flight today, one kid positive, everyone into isolation at a medi hotel.

Going to be positive kids on all flights shortly as they don’t have a vax approved yet.
isolation rules are no longer 14 days

[Potsie Weber]

isolation rules are no longer 14 days


primary close contact in Victoria is still 14 days.

[ChrisJ800]

Im guessing home quarantine after an international inbound flight will only be available if you are in driving distance of an international airport like SYD or MEL. I live in Tas so does that mean I still need to pay for hotel quarantine where I land and then additional home quarantine once I get back to Tas?

[KRviator]

The SA Premier: "I reckon our borders will be open by Christmas, so everyone can have family over!" :ok:
The SA Health CEO: "Aaaahhh...no...":=South Australia's top health bureaucrat has contradicted the expectations of the state's Premier, expressing doubt about a plan to scrap COVID-19 quarantine requirements for fully vaccinated interstate travellers by Christmas.

Last week, SA Premier Steven Marshall said he was hopeful that anyone looking to travel to SA who had been double vaccinated and had not been to any exposure sites "will be able to come back and enjoy a relatively normal Christmas". "I think people, this Christmas, can look forward to having people coming from interstate to spend time with them," he said on Wednesday. "People can have some confidence that as we get closer to Christmas there will be pathways for people to come back, and that we'll also be avoiding statewide lockdowns."

But SA Health chief executive Chris McGowan today indicated that that deadline may be premature.

"It's not our expectation that there'll be no quarantine requirements even for double vaccinated people at this stage," Mr McGowan told a parliamentary committee. When asked whether he was aware of any health advice suggesting that, by December 25, there would be no requirement for quarantining "if you're coming from interstate", Mr McGowan responded: "It may have come from someone else, but it hasn't come from me." Source (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-11/sa-health-chief-pours-doubt-on-christmas-covid-19-deadline/100529064)

What is it with these McGowan blokes and their border policies? Are they bloody brothers or something?!? So what's that about following the "Health Advice" there, Premier?

[PoppaJo]

Health officials need to take a back seat now, those people’s time in the spotlight is over, this is where the Premiers need to grow a pair and start taking control. The old witch up north still runs rings around our so called leader. She needs to be sacked.

Dr Chant must feel like a third wheel now. It’s Dom’s show now. I would expect her resignation fairly soon.

Great to see someone taking control.

[dr dre]

The SA Premier: "I reckon our borders will be open by Christmas, so everyone can have family over!" :ok:


Even before the SA CHO's comments today Steven Marshall had said he would wait until vaccination rates were even (https://eminetra.com.au/sa-to-wait-for-vaccine-equity-before-opening-borders/233573/) across all SA Local Government Areas before easing border restrictions. Some LGAs in SA, in the Northern suburbs of Adelaide and rural areas primarily, are running about 20% behind the state average. So the Premier has a good excuse himself to not open up when the overall state average hits 80%.

Tasmania said they'd be aiming for 90% vaccinated, and the NT Chief Minister wants more than 80% to protect the territory's indigenous population. So they're all including little caveats to not open up if they deem that so.

What I think they're waiting for is NSW to be the canary in the coalmine and see how they do over the next 6 weeks. If hospitals aren't overwhelmed it'll bode well for reopening. If NSW hospitals are overwhelmed then the other states have a get out of jail card that wouldn't have had they set a firm reopening date.

[43Inches]

The only state I see holding out closures past Christmas will be WA. I can't see a reason for the East coast to remain closed, which is how much of the populace will see it. That will make it hard for any premier to keep shut and prevent dissent. McGowan is still riding on his electoral mandate, forget about WA. They will stay shut for a while yet.

Melbourne the weather has been good lately, everyone down the beach and in parks. Reminds me of the old Sunday trading rules with people out and about but shops and pubs closed. The lockdown is really only in name now, people are doing mostly what they want. I hear cars racing, doing burnouts at night as usual well past curfew. If the police are policing it they are not doing much. This is probably why the numbers are jumping up.

[Daylight Robbery]

As the rest of the world has shown, it's not about the number of infections once you move on from lockdowns and isolation. But rather the number of hospital admissions and serious illness/ deaths. Once you open up, the number of Covid-19 positive cases is no longer strictly relevant. We are probably all going to brush up against this virus in the next couple of years. Get vaccinated and stay healthy to ensure the best personal outcome from the inevitable contact.

[Xeptu]

Is anyone else asking the question of how does NSW decision to open on Nov 1st work in a practical sense. Presumably returning Australians can come home without a need to quarantine. What happens when 10,000 returning Australians return to Sydney and none of them live in NSW.

[Lead Balloon]

They'll spend a lot of money in NSW, for which we New South Welshmen will thank them!

[KRviator]

And there we have it folks. Quarantine-free international travel into and out of NSW from the 1st of November (2021 for the nay-sayers who would say it's not Nov 1 this year :}).

Looks like you can go from Sydney to Paris before you can go to Perth. Or Brussels before you can go to Brisbane. Or Milan before you can go to Melbourne.

What a great C(o?)untry we live in.

Too bad The Dom isn't going to ban outright unvaccinated travellers. Let other states deal with them and the risk for a change! :mad:
NSW to scrap quarantine for international arrivals from November 1 in major policy shift

NSW will open its borders to fully vaccinated international travellers — who will no longer need to quarantine in hotels, or at home — from next month.

Key points:

Unvaccinated travellers will still have to enter hotel quarantine but there will only be around 200 spots per week
NSW is the first state or territory to lift the requirement for quarantine
People from Sydney will not be able to travel to regional NSW until November 1

In a major policy shift, Premier Dominic Perrottet announced people from his state would "be travelling to Bali before Broome" when the reforms come into effect on November 1.
People wanting to arrive in Sydney from overseas will need to show proof they've received a TGA-approved vaccine, and undertake a PCR test for COVID-19 before they board their flight. "We are opening Sydney and NSW to the world, and that date will come in on November 1. [We] will work closely with the Commonwealth to ensure protections are in place so we keep people safe [as we] rejoin the world," Mr Perrottet said.

Since March 2020 all states and territories have required all overseas passengers to quarantine in hotels, at their own expense, for 14 days. Last month, then-premier Gladys Berejiklian announced a trial of home quarantine for eligible international arrivals but her successor, Mr Perrottet, has now pressed fast-forward on this transition. NSW is the only state to announce quarantine-free international travel. All interstate borders to NSW remain closed.

"We can't live here in hermit kingdom. So many businesses [here] rely on tourism for business and trade," Mr Perrottet said. Anyone who is not fully vaccinated will still be required to enter hotel quarantine but there will only be 210 spots available per week. Tourism Minister Stuart Ayres said the November 1 date was chosen as it gave airlines two weeks to put on extra flights to NSW. The announcement comes as the state recorded 399 locally acquired COVID-19 cases and four deaths in the 24 hours to 8:00pm yesterday. Source (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-15/nsw-records-399-covid-19-cases/100541348)

[Ladloy]

Is anyone else asking the question of how does NSW decision to open on Nov 1st work in a practical sense. Presumably returning Australians can come home without a need to quarantine. What happens when 10,000 returning Australians return to Sydney and none of them live in NSW.

Also find it bizarre that Scomo said one thing but NSW said another.

[Climb150]

Is anyone else asking the question of how does NSW decision to open on Nov 1st work in a practical sense. Presumably returning Australians can come home without a need to quarantine. What happens when 10,000 returning Australians return to Sydney and none of them live in NSW.

Maybe they will rent an air bnb or go to a reasonably priced hotel. I don't think you have to prove you are a resident in NSW.

[SHVC]

WA and rest of the country are in lockdown, they just don’t realize it yet!

[ScepticalOptomist]

Is anyone else asking the question of how does NSW decision to open on Nov 1st work in a practical sense. Presumably returning Australians can come home without a need to quarantine. What happens when 10,000 returning Australians return to Sydney and none of them live in NSW.

No. Just happy to see some common sense approaches finally. Now The Chairman and The Chook need to follow suit in the next few weeks and we can get on with it finally. Even WA will follow soon enough.

All the scaremongers and nay sayers will have to find another topic to bleat about!

[Xeptu]

WA and rest of the country are in lockdown, they just don’t realize it yet!

I believe the remaining states won't be that far behind NSW including WA. I don't think a NSW Open International Border, at least for returning Australians will be all that meaningful until the remaining states open up. I still think it will be early next year before we see any real effect.

[SHVC]

WA can stay closed I personally don’t care what happens there. QLD won’t be able to justify staying closed past their 80% target and will open. if you have seen Queen P speak lately she is slowly admitting it. Eastern states will move on, leaving WA behind and McGoose will jump up and down trying to get more air time. When he decides to open next yr it will go un noticed as we have already been enjoying what we were enjoying in 2019.

[SOPS]

I don’t think this new NSW policy will cause other states to open up. I think it will have the reverse effect. It gives the other states the perfect exude not to open any borders, as there is no longer an control of the virus in NSW. I really think this is the perfect excuse they need to shut the rest of the country down, not open it up.

[Xeptu]

WA can stay closed I personally don’t care what happens there. QLD won’t be able to justify staying closed past their 80% target and will open. if you have seen Queen P speak lately she is slowly admitting it. Eastern states will move on, leaving WA behind and McGoose will jump up and down trying to get more air time. When he decides to open next yr it will go un noticed as we have already been enjoying what we were enjoying in 2019.

I don't think any state intends to remain closed beyond 80% double dose, albeit not completely restriction free.

I admire your optimism with regard to what you think you'll be enjoying once the NSW International Border is open. I don't think anything major will occur quickly.

[SHVC]

It’s better than the pessimistic forecast yourself and others have! Like Sco said, Mo if not at 80% then when?! Can’t stay closed forever. All your lord daddy had to do was improve the health system, instead, all he wanted to do was throw Barbs and carry on same as the North witch. DP wants to rejoin the world and he has my vote for that.

[Xeptu]

It’s better than the pessimistic forecast yourself and others have! Like Sco said, Mo if not at 80% then when?! Can’t stay closed forever. All your lord daddy had to do was improve the health system, instead, all he wanted to do was throw Barbs and carry on same as the North witch. DP wants to rejoin the world and he has my vote for that.

I don't see it as pessimistic, certainly not intended that way, I'm a realist and say it like it is. Most people I know and speak to aren't interested in overseas travel any time soon. Most want back into cruising ships, can hardly wait, but then they say they there not biting at the bit to be the first. It's about how does all that translate into a practical sense.

[cloudsurfng]

I don't think any state intends to remain closed beyond 80% double dose, albeit not completely restriction free.

I admire your optimism with regard to what you think you'll be enjoying once the NSW International Border is open. I don't think anything major will occur quickly.


the enjoyment will be the opportunity for overseas family to travel here, in my case to see family I haven’t seen for 4 years, who’ve missed the birth of both my children, and who have never met their grandkids. Something that the thousands of expats in WA, under the dictator McGowan, are unable to do. It’s not like it is a ‘return to normal’ but it’s certainly a big step in the right direction. Someone had to take the lead, NSW will be criticised by the other hypocritical premiers for not sticking to the national plan, who themselves have chucked the plan in the bin anyway. just look at the headless chickens in qld running around bumping in to each other. Bigger fools you won’t find.

[theheadmaster]

Victoria has announced that from midnight 19 October, fully vaccinated travellers from an orange zone will not need to quarantine. Fully vaccinated from red zone need negative test 72 hours prior to travel and another on arrival. No quarantine after negative test after arrival. This follows from Victorian health order that all airport workers (and I believe including overnighting crew) required to be vaccinated.

[Xeptu]

the enjoyment will be the opportunity for overseas family to travel here, in my case to see family I haven’t seen for 4 years, who’ve missed the birth of both my children, and who have never met their grandkids. Something that the thousands of expats in WA, under the dictator McGowan, are unable to do. It’s not like it is a ‘return to normal’ but it’s certainly a big step in the right direction. Someone had to take the lead, NSW will be criticised by the other hypocritical premiers for not sticking to the national plan, who themselves have chucked the plan in the bin anyway. just look at the headless chickens in qld running around bumping in to each other. Bigger fools you won’t find.

I agree with you on visiting family, certainly domestically. I'm optimistic that all the states will be open for that by Christmas. the rollout is on track, but of course it can't be said officially that the borders will be open, in case something goes pear shaped. The down side is that there won't be a lot of notice when that happens.

[SHVC]

NSW will be open, open to international that’s all that matters to me. They won’t be opening and closing international like other states do domestically.

[Xeptu]

NSW will be open, open to international that’s all that matters to me. They won’t be opening and closing international like other states do domestically.

That's actually the Federal Governments call and what the remaining states do will largely impact upon that.

[rattman]

That's actually the Federal Governments call and what the remaining states do will largely impact upon that.

yes and no they can say no quarantine, but ultimately its up to the feds. Not like they have any real choice about the decision. I would be surprised if it was announced without consultation. But 2UE are saying the announcment was

[SOPS]

Before you all get too excited….

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/pm-blindsided-by-noquarantine-detail-in-nsws-border-reopening-announcement/news-story/562ef0a9157048ce4c04de20dc84b559

[Xeptu]

I'm not sure the Feds can open the International Borders to just one state. An overly enthusiastic new Premier perhaps.

[GaryGnu]

The Federal Government can decide who can cross the border into Australia and the conditions under which they do so. Sure the Feds could impose a quarantine requirement but then they would have to administer and deliver it. That is something they have shown no inclination to take on since March 2020.

NSW is getting out of the quarantine game for vaccinated arrivals from 01 November. Who is going to take over?

The moment an international traveller steps foot outside a terminal they will be free to do as they wish inside NSW.

The real question is how long the other states/territories will be able to justify their own quarantine requirements from now on.

[Xeptu]

The Federal Government can decide who can cross the border into Australia and the conditions under which they do so. Sure the Feds could impose a quarantine requirement but then they would have to administer and deliver it. That is something they have shown no inclination to take on since March 2020.

NSW is getting out of the quarantine game for vaccinated arrivals from 01 November. Who is going to take over?

The moment an international traveller steps foot outside a terminal they will be free to do as they wish inside NSW.

The real question is how long the other states/territories will be able to justify their own quarantine requirements from now on.

Not sure what you mean here, it contradicts itself. The Federal Government is unlikely to open the International Borders until all the States are ready and agree to do so.
In the case when one or two states are holding out, then the borders can still be open Nationally and any restrictions into any one state is on that state alone.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Brilliant political play by the NSW Premier. Will force Morrison to actually take responsibility and make a decision that will have personal Political consequences for him. Will Morrison decide to finally take up the Fed quarantine responsibility or decide to ban / allow unfettered double vaccinated inbound travel?

[GaryGnu]

Not sure what you mean here, it contradicts itself. The Federal Government is unlikely to open the International Borders until all the States are ready and agree to do so.

Perhaps I am succumbing to my own optimism Xeptu. But equally, I cannot see how you can be so adamant about what the Feds will or will not do. Effectively, the NSW government is sending a signal to Canberra, and elsewhere, saying "we are ready, let 'em in". I for one hope that the Feds respond by saying "OK, here they come".

In the case when one or two states are holding out, then the borders can still be open Nationally and any restrictions into any one state is on that state alone.

So what about the inverse situation where one state is ahead of the others and is prepared to accept the risk and reward of allowing travellers across the border?

[Icarus2001]

So what if ScoMo says the international border is now "open" with no quarantine reqquirement on arrival for vaccinated travellers.

Perth Airport is now open for business.

McGowan says no way. His authority ends at the airport boundary does it not? Federal land and all that, AFP jurisdiction not WAPOL.

Would be an interesting little exercise.

[Xeptu]

Brilliant political play by the NSW Premier. Will force Morrison to actually take responsibility and make a decision that will have personal Political consequences for him. Will Morrison decide to finally take up the Fed quarantine responsibility or decide to ban / allow unfettered double vaccinated inbound travel?

I understood there will be no quarantine for any double vaxxed inbound passengers anywhere. Only the unvaxxed, but then you can't come in anyway, it's a double vaxxed and a negative test prior to departure. Quarantine is federal anyway for International Inbound Passengers. I'm not sure about outbreaks and close contacts sent into quarantine, I think that's State.

[Xeptu]

So what if ScoMo says the international border is now "open" with no quarantine reqquirement on arrival for vaccinated travellers.

Perth Airport is now open for business.

McGowan says no way. His authority ends at the airport boundary does it not? Federal land and all that, AFP jurisdiction not WAPOL.

Would be an interesting little exercise.

Oh come on, if the state is closed to arrivals that's it, no different to a domestic turn around enroute, which has happened.

[SOPS]

ScoMo has just said that the Federal Government controls the borders. No tourists yet. Only returning Australians will be allowed to start with.

[Xeptu]

So what about the inverse situation where one state is ahead of the others and is prepared to accept the risk and reward of allowing travellers across the border?

Then the International Borders are open and thus ends the National State of Emergency. An individual state can remain closed to both either or International or Domestic Travel.

That wasn't the plan though, it was all of us together, I wouldn't be surprised if it happens in stages as you say.

[SHVC]

I'm not sure the Feds can open the International Borders to just one state. An overly enthusiastic new Premier perhaps.

They can, and they just did. NSW open for returning Australians and immediate family which is being looked at to being expanded to parents, permanent residents are also allowed to freely leave for holiday and return with no quarantine into NSW with proof of TGA approved double vaccination. Sco Mo also said “Australians are allowed to leave freely” meaning WA residents are free to leave Aus and return, however, will be subject to their own state requirements getting to their residents where ever that is.

[Xeptu]

They can, and they just did. NSW open for returning Australians and immediate family which is being looked at to being expanded to parents, permanent residents are also allowed to freely leave for holiday and return with no quarantine into NSW with proof of TGA approved double vaccination. Sco Mo also said “Australians are allowed to leave freely” meaning WA residents are free to leave Aus and return, however, will be subject to their own state requirements getting to their residents where ever that is.

Another case of what was said and what is understood to have been said. All of the states have been open to returning Australians albeit in limited numbers and on occasions no entry at all to an individual state. Australians leaving can but not so freely and returning has always been subject to conditions.

[KRviator]

They can, and they just did. NSW open for returning Australians and immediate family which is being looked at to being expanded to parents, permanent residents are also allowed to freely leave for holiday and return with no quarantine into NSW with proof of TGA approved double vaccination. Sco Mo also said “Australians are allowed to leave freely” meaning WA residents are free to leave Aus and return, however, will be subject to their own state requirements getting to their residents where ever that is.And that could be what The Dom is looking forward to.

If McGoose or Anna-Stayaway continue to refuse permission to enter to anyone who has been in NSW, then any QLD/WA residents can fly back in to Oz, and will have to stay in NSW spending their $$ there rather than their home state. Who knows, he might even convince a few of them to stay in NSW with the logic "We did the righty by you, your own Premier turned their back & disowned you!" :}

[Icarus2001]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen-427.html#post11126653)
So what if ScoMo says the international border is now "open" with no quarantine reqquirement on arrival for vaccinated travellers.

Perth Airport is now open for business.

McGowan says no way. His authority ends at the airport boundary does it not? Federal land and all that, AFP jurisdiction not WAPOL.

Would be an interesting little exercise.
Oh come on, if the state is closed to arrivals that's it, no different to a domestic turn around enroute, which has happened.


Domestic is a different beast to international.

[SHVC]

Another case of what was said and what is understood to have been said. All of the states have been open to returning Australians albeit in limited numbers and on occasions no entry at all to an individual state. Australians leaving can but not so freely and returning has always been subject to conditions.

Yeah ok what ever. We all know you’re dead set against moving on and living. Ppl will be able to enter NSW that’s what was said.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Quarantine is federal anyway for International Inbound Passengers.

Always has been per the Constitution. “National Cabinet” convened and SCOMO conveniently palmed off his responsibility to the States. My point is he now has to actually make a decision and wear the consequences.

SOPS above reports he’s done just that.

[dr dre]

I believe the remaining states won't be that far behind NSW including WA.

The CEO of Cricket Australia revealed today the discussions regarding the next Ashes test series that've been ongoing between the relevant parties and governments, indicating the series will go ahead as scheduled and they're happy with the negotiations with the WA government regarding the viability of the fifth test in Perth.

The 4th test ends in Sydney on Jan 9 and then the 5th test starts in Perth on the 14th. Obviously isn't going to be a 14 day quarantine in place by then.

[Buster Hyman]

Wow. After all this time, people still don't know how the Quarantine arrangements work between Federal & State. :rolleyes:

[Xeptu]

Yeah ok what ever. We all know you’re dead set against moving on and living. Ppl will be able to enter NSW that’s what was said.

Mate that's really not fair, I'm a realist and say it like it is. The New NSW Premier does not have the powers to open his International Border, that's a Federal Government responsibility.

Now just a heads up, Emperor McGowan is likely to have some fun in the media with the new Liberal Premier, don't take it too seriously.

P.S We need a title for the new King of Liliput following the Slaying of Queen Gladys

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Now just a heads up, Emperor McGowan is likely to have some fun in the media with the new Liberal Premier, don't take it too seriously.



McGowan is a man who doesn’t look like he’s ever had a moment’s fun in his entire life.

[SHVC]

I’m a realist as much as you, and what DP has done is put SM balls in a noose! He went one way sco mo has now made it his own political agenda to go against him as he does not want to upset the voters of other states.

McGowen is a person that actually has not done a thing in his life! WA is an absolute mess he is riding the closed border covid wave and the that is the main reason he won in a landslide!

Now Gladys, her resignation is the best thing that happened to NSW I was a fan of her but her saying one thing doing another was getting old. Remember her saying the 11am would stop but the next day, the next day and after that there she was still doing them.

[Xeptu]

I’m a realist as much as you, and what DP has done is put SM balls in a noose! He went one way sco mo has now made it his own political agenda to go against him as he does not want to upset the voters of other states.

McGowen is a person that actually has not done a thing in his life! WA is an absolute mess he is riding the closed border covid wave and the that is the main reason he won in a landslide!

Now Gladys, her resignation is the best thing that happened to NSW I was a fan of her but her saying one thing doing another was getting old. Remember her saying the 11am would stop but the next day, the next day and after that there she was still doing them.

Mostly agreed, however that's politics, if a politician is going to appear in the media and sprout sh#t then they should expect a hosing down, that's what we Aussies do. The new King of Lilliput won't be any different, except he has the luxury of joining the race in the last 50 metres. Personally I think he's blown it already, lets see what happens.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

I am trying to leave Australia, but have been denied an exit exemption. Good to know Australia is no better than North Korea. Surely, I can ignore this stupid travel exemption now.

[Ladloy]

I’m a realist as much as you, and what DP has done is put SM balls in a noose! He went one way sco mo has now made it his own political agenda to go against him as he does not want to upset the voters of other states.

McGowen is a person that actually has not done a thing in his life! WA is an absolute mess he is riding the closed border covid wave and the that is the main reason he won in a landslide!

Now Gladys, her resignation is the best thing that happened to NSW I was a fan of her but her saying one thing doing another was getting old. Remember her saying the 11am would stop but the next day, the next day and after that there she was still doing them.
Now we have a NSW premier who thinks he is the PM. To his credit Scomo hasn't been PM since the bushfires.

[SHVC]

DP will not be the savior, he is not even an elected leader of the ppl and to be honest he most likely wouldn’t be when the time comes, his time may be short lived! But, he is stirring the pot instead of a “conversation” or “we will look at it” he is actually doing and wanting to make it happen. To his credit that is putting pressure on all states, territories and his own liberal federal compatriots which is what this country needs wether you like it or not.

I say this, or write. Think of our national anthem and the words in it do they apply now?!! I’ve never been an advocate to change it, but, after covid and how our country has acted towards one another it certainty is not worthy anthem for us now.

[Xeptu]

Mate I'm hearing what you say and I genuinely feel for those in Melb, Syd and SE Queensland in that order, you guys have had it really tough the rest of us are grateful we don't live there.
For the rest of us that hasn't been our experience, the worst for us has been remembering to take your face mask with you when we want to go into a public place.
Yes we want the borders open and something like it was pre covid, but we're not in any rush, it's important to get everyone vaccinated. 80% double vaxxed is a good place to start the opening process. It's going to happen and if everything goes to plan before Christmas. The majority of Australians aren't feeling the pain some of you are.
We also know it's going to take time, pre covid normality isn't going to just happen on opening day, it's more like many many months.

[dr dre]

Yes we want the borders open and something like it was pre covid, but we're not in any rush, it's important to get everyone vaccinated. 80% double vaxxed is a good place to start the opening process. It's going to happen and if everything goes to plan before Christmas.

Just to reiterate NSW will be well above 80% double jabbed by Nov 1st, Victoria around 70%, QLD, SA, WA and NT around 60%.

The reason NSW can open to non quarantine international travel by then but no other state isn’t some strike of genius or great management on park of their government, it’s simply because they are more vaccinated as a result of receiving priority and allocation and having an a outbreak and lockdown which drove them to be vaccinated.

The other states will change their tune as their vax rate increases, although we want them to do it now they’ll wait further to get a more accurate picture before setting dates. Even NSW waited until 78% fully vaxxed until making this decision with a two week warning. It’s probably not as realistic for the Covid zero states to give their reopening plans now at 55% vax rates.

Tasmania is still aiming for a covid zero and going for a 3 day lockdown this weekend due to a loose positive case. That won’t happen in about 6-8 weeks.

[Clare Prop]

WA is an absolute mess he is riding the closed border covid wave and the that is the main reason he won in a landslide!


This absolute mess has the lowest unemployment rate of all the States as well as being the only State with a budget surplus of billions. People can go about their lives freely without masks etc, we have not had any restrictions for several months.
He won in a landslide because there was basically no opposition! He has a mandate for the closed border whether you like it or not.
It is extraordinary to have people in locked down covid infested states, relying on WA resources to provide the funds for their welfare, jeering at us.

Covid has been sitting in ships in Fremantle harbour and we have managed not to have it spreading everywhere, that is down to the people as well as the government. From the Ruby Princess onwards NSW has been unable to kepp it under control.

[dr dre]

People can go about their lives freely without masks etc, we have not had any restrictions for several months.

Even with that the WA government has (smartly) begun to talk about the need for some indoor mask mandates, capacity limits and restrictions on unvaccinated persons (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-14/mcgowan-offers-glimpse-into-life-with-covid-in-wa/100538028) when borders come down. This gets the public used to the idea of living with the virus.

[PoppaJo]

Just to reiterate NSW will be well above 80% double jabbed by Nov 1st, Victoria around 70%, QLD, SA, WA and NT around 60%.

Victoria is only about 11/12 days at the moment behind NSW and will hit 80% on the 31st October if they keep it going.

Vic cracks 90 a bit over a week later and is forecasted to overtake NSW in total % Second dose mid to late November.

Queensland would be lucky to crack those numbers this calender year. Love the change of tune from Dr Young up here now... ‘Covid is coming for you’. Good riddance. Way too late now.

[KRviator]

This absolute mess has the lowest unemployment rate of all the States as well as being the only State with a budget surplus of billions. Brought about by the surging spot price in a single commodity - that's not good management, that's good luck. Nothing more. And despite your State Daddy's surplus, you still have a health system that is unable to cope with scheduled elective surgeries without a Covid-induced-response affecting the system. It's no wonder he has to keep it out...

It is extraordinary to have people in locked down covid infested states, relying on WA resources to provide the funds for their welfare, jeering at us.It's also extraordinary to expect NSW to carry the lions share of the risk of international arrivals and airfreight yet those states whose Citizens transit through Sydney Airport, those states whose time-sensitive freight transits through Mascot, are more than happy to lock out NSW's Citizens.
From the Ruby Princess onwards NSW has been unable to kepp it under control.On the contrary, until the arrival of Delta, NSW managed all outbreaks while keeping the economy relatively open with targeted lockdowns. They didn't stop taking international arrivals like Victoria did when they had their outbreak, they didn't have a sook about the number of arrivals and demand they be halved like McGowan did - while still expecting NSW to pick up the slack - and they didn't say "we ain't taking anyone" like Tasmania did.

Be realistic, WA has got where it is though good luck, not good management. Any child can close the door to keep the boogy man out - and that's all McGowan has done, viable opposition or not. He hasn't managed WA's fair share of international arrivals, nor the volume of air freight that Sydney handles, and he's run the health system into the ground. On just about every measure, the WA health system has been trending badly for the last several years, where most other states have been static or showed improvements - the only thing that'll likely be able to turn that around is the budget surplus - because god knows you'd be totally screwed without it!

[Colonel_Klink]

The majority of Australians aren't feeling the pain some of you are.


There is about 15 million people that make up the populations of NSW and VIC all of whom have been under increased restrictions this year.

So the minority of Australian’s might not be feeling the pain - but it’s about time those minorities started acting in the National (read majority) interest and that we have consistent plan with known targets to work towards. It’s absolutely ludicrous that we still don’t know when:
- QLD will open up to VIC / NSW
- WA will cease all restrictions on arrivals from states that have even a tiny number of cases

And I won’t let the Eastern states off the hook, it’s also equally stupid that:
- NSW opens international arrivals on November 1, but no word on arrivals from Victoria
- That Victoria (at 2000 cases a day) still considers the ACT a red zone (at 30 cases a day and a population that sees 95% of people with at least a single dose of vaccine)
- That Victoria allows someone to arrive from NSW, travel to regional Vic and then lockdown within 25km of that location, yet someone in Melbourne can’t travel to regional Victoria.

This country has well and truly lost the plot….

[Xeptu]

It's also extraordinary to expect NSW to carry the lions share of the risk of international arrivals and airfreight yet those states whose Citizens transit through Sydney Airport, those states whose time-sensitive freight transits through Mascot, are more than happy to lock out NSW's Citizens.
On the contrary, until the arrival of Delta, NSW managed all outbreaks while keeping the economy relatively open with targeted lockdowns. They didn't stop taking international arrivals like Victoria did when they had their outbreak, they didn't have a sook about the number of arrivals and demand they be halved like McGowan did - while still expecting NSW to pick up the slack - and they didn't say "we ain't taking anyone" like Tasmania did.

Sure but then NSW sent only a handful of medical staff to help in VIC pre vaccine, now we have hundreds of long covid sufferers, other than VIC mostly from SA and WA, including my own and we don't know when if ever that will end. if anyone has the right to sook we do.

[Transition Layer]

This absolute mess has the lowest unemployment rate of all the States as well as being the only State with a budget surplus of billions. People can go about their lives freely without masks etc, we have not had any restrictions for several months.
He won in a landslide because there was basically no opposition! He has a mandate for the closed border whether you like it or not.
It is extraordinary to have people in locked down covid infested states, relying on WA resources to provide the funds for their welfare, jeering at us.

Covid has been sitting in ships in Fremantle harbour and we have managed not to have it spreading everywhere, that is down to the people as well as the government. From the Ruby Princess onwards NSW has been unable to kepp it under control.

I’ll happily wear a mask indoors at shops etc and adhere to other restrictions for the next year if it means I can come and go from WA freely. The problem is the selfish majority in this state who believe they are free simply because they can visit a pub, or travel to Margs, or Exmouth or Broome won’t be willing to do the same. That’s not freedom people. You are prisoners in this sh1t show of a state

[Xeptu]

I’ll happily wear a mask indoors at shops etc and adhere to other restrictions for the next year if it means I can come and go from WA freely. The problem is the selfish majority in this state who believe they are free simply because they can visit a pub, or travel to Margs, or Exmouth or Broome won’t be willing to do the same. That’s not freedom people. You are prisoners in this sh1t show of a state

I'm sure if you weren't stood down or one of your family members impacted by covid you wouldn't be thinking the way you do. we are not prisoners, we have boundaries, it's temporary and necessary. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, maybe chat to someone in VIC who is deeply impacted for perspective.

[SOPS]

I'm sure if you weren't stood down or one of your family members impacted by covid you wouldn't be thinking the way you do. we are not prisoners, we have boundaries, it's temporary and necessary. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, maybe chat to someone in VIC who is deeply impacted for perspective..

Where is the like button??

[dr dre]

I’ll happily wear a mask indoors at shops etc and adhere to other restrictions for the next year if it means I can come and go from WA freely. The problem is the selfish majority in this state who believe they are free simply because they can visit a pub, or travel to Margs, or Exmouth or Broome won’t be willing to do the same.

The rate of mask compliance I observed during all of the 3 lockdowns, then during the two weeks of mandatory masks after was very high, to the point anyone without a mask stood out like a sore thumb. Almost all people were willing to wear them, and that included the two weeks after the lockdown with no Covid circulating in the community.

So I’m fairly sure the rate of mask compliance will
be high when mandated due to a reopening with some Covid circulating around.

[Transition Layer]

I'm sure if you weren't stood down or one of your family members impacted by covid you wouldn't be thinking the way you do. we are not prisoners, we have boundaries, it's temporary and necessary. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, maybe chat to someone in VIC who is deeply impacted for perspective.

Ahh the irony… I have family in Victoria who I can’t visit, nor can they visit me. My flying colleagues in Victoria have more liberties than me in terms of moving around the country.

Sounds like you’re suggesting I should be grateful to live in WA. As a Pilot coming and going from the state, I’m regularly made to feel like a criminal, just for doing my job. Enough is enough!

You wouldn’t understand as I know you’re not in the industry. You’re just a McGowan fan boi

[Transition Layer]

The rate of mask compliance I observed during all of the 3 lockdowns, then during the two weeks of mandatory masks after was very high, to the point anyone without a mask stood out like a sore thumb. Almost all people were willing to wear them, and that included the two weeks after the lockdown with no Covid circulating in the community.

So I’m fairly sure the rate of mask compliance will
be high when mandated due to a reopening with some Covid circulating around.

My point is that given a choice between closed borders and no masks, with Marky keeping people safe, OR open borders with potential mask mandates, the inbred bogan majority of WA would prefer the former. The pathetic vaccine rates suggest the same.

[dr dre]

My point is that given a choice between closed borders and no masks, with Marky keeping people safe, OR open borders with potential mask mandates, the inbred bogan majority of WA would prefer the former. The pathetic vaccine rates suggest the same.

1. They’re not going to be given that choice. Premier, Health minister, Police chief have all said a reopening will occur with a mask mandate and capacity restrictions, and there’s no opposition party calling to remain closed off with no masks, nor can I think of any external pressure group organising protests to remain closed off without masks.

2. The vaccine uptake was low due to supply being diverted to NSW. The uptake of the available vaccine in the state is rated as “Fully Utilised” with little to no spare available in the last Health Department weekly update (page 18 here (https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/10/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-update-11-october-2021.pdf)).

3. The number of first doses plus bookings for doses in the state is over 80% (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-06/wa-new-years-eve-deadline-80-per-cent-covid19-vaccine-target/100516790), so the required amount of people are intending to take it up.

4. All indications on WA, Qld and SA reaching 80% within a week of each other in early December (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-02/charting-australias-covid-vaccine-rollout/13197518). Now I’ve been watching those projected target dates semi religiously over the vaccine rollout and they’ve pretty much remained in that position for a while. This means the rate of uptake in the Covid free states is steady and all will hit their targets around that time. Very unlikely now any state will fall short.

So there’s reason and evidence to be positive about the situation, messaging is now changing towards a reopen and living with Covid mindset.

[Clare Prop]

My point is that given a choice between closed borders and no masks, with Marky keeping people safe, OR open borders with potential mask mandates, the inbred bogan majority of WA would prefer the former. The pathetic vaccine rates suggest the same.

You clearly loathe everything about WA and its inhabitants so why can't you just let it go, surely you don't actually want to come to this state and we don't want arrogant "easten staters" who think they are sooo superior to come here and sneer at us inbred bogans.

So why not focus your bitterness and hatred elsewhere?

[SOPS]

You clearly loathe everything about WA and its inhabitants so why can't you just let it go, surely you don't actually want to come to this state and we don't want arrogant "easten staters" who think they are sooo superior to come here and sneer at us inbred bogans.

So why not focus your bitterness and hatred elsewhere?


Well said Clare.👍👍👍

[Xeptu]

TL

Can I ask why you choose to live in a place with people you hate, surely you would be happier at home with your family in NSW, why do you wait.

[Transition Layer]

Geez, looks like I’ve upset the McGowan fan club tonight! All 3 of you are here at the same time…what are the odds?

[Buster Hyman]

Still not a fan of going Republic, but if this is the best that the Commonwealth/States can do, then sign me up if a Republic can introduce one Government, one plan, and all going in the same direction!

[WingNut60]

Still not a fan of going Republic, but if this is the best that the Commonwealth/States can do, then sign me up if a Republic can introduce one Government, one plan, and all going in the same direction!
Like the U.S., do you mean?

Or do you just mean a republic where the most populous states can impose their self-proclaimed superiority over the smaller states?

[Clare Prop]

Geez, looks like I’ve upset the McGowan fan club tonight! All 3 of you are here at the same time…what are the odds?
Not a particular fan of McGowan, However your saying that people in WA are "inbred bogans" says more about you than it does about us.