All borders to reopen.

[Slezy9]

The bloke is a massive ********. Eliminate the virus............yeah, right mate. That's gunna happen.

Hello, New Zealand calling!

[KRviator]

Hello, New Zealand calling!Yep, they eliminated it. Sure did. Was going great for so long.Then Poof! Like a magic trick it was back - and they still don't know where it came from.

Just like NSW did, just like Qld...

Wash, rinse, repeat.

[empacher48]

Yep, they eliminated it. Sure did. Was going great for so long.Then Poof! Like a magic trick it was back - and they still don't know where it came from.

Just like NSW did, just like Qld...

Wash, rinse, repeat.

You do realise that elimination in the middle of a global pandemic is not a one shot deal? Do it once and never see it again?

The epidemiologist meaning of elimination is to remove it from society and then, as it reappears in the community, as it will, have zero tolerance for it remaining.

It’s a process, that will continue until it stops being a pandemic and becomes endemic.

There have been 5 outbreaks of COVID in the community since June 2020, only the August outbreak required any change to the alert levels. The other 4 were handled without changing much of the way life is in NZ.

The most recent change after the last case of community transmission (18th November) was compulsory masks on all forms of public transport.

[getaway]

Worst case scenario USA, --------- against Australia
Population 330,000,000 -----------------25,000,000

Total cases 23,400,000 ------------------ 28,647
Deaths 389,900 -------------------------------- 909
Total recoveries 13,800,000 ------------- 25,860
Active cases with covid 9,200,000 ------- 1,878
IN ICU 29,222 ------------------------------------ 1
Deaths per 1,000,000 = 1173 ----------------- 35

Haven't got health care workers though you reckon they would be healthy in the first place if their dealing with sick people
as their profession. As you can see the Aus numbers are influenced with harsh lockdowns, curfews, international air restrictions.
The USA hardly did any of that plus their diet is crap they all live on top of each other hence the large numbers.
I understand the problem, people should not be scared of the virus you should be scared of your own immune system.

Planet earth is located at the right temperature from the sun to sustain life. Provided is O2 and H2O and they alone
will produce fungi, moulds, viruses, germs. The bloke upstairs then decided to invent humans, and he provided them
with a immune system to fight them off. I believe that's been going on for the last 10,000 years.
Guess what, it will continue for the next 10,000 and 10,000 after that. What are we scared of?
these numbers are very dodgy.

Total deaths in USA in previous years seem to be, if you can believe anything online anymore, between 2.7 & 2.9 million (that's over 7,000 a day). Figures for 2020 don't seem to have been released yet, but maybe slightly higher in 2020 than in 2019, but not 300,000 or 350,000 more & 2021 is expected by many to be less than 2020, perhaps 2.7 or 2.8 million.

With hospitals in USA claiming bonus payments for patients with covid 19, think many might not be dying from covid but with covid & there is a huge difference.

Time will tell.

We all will die at some point. Guarantee it.

Everyone needs to get it into perspective & play down the media hype.

Watch out when the flu hits. That's really deadly.

[KRviator]

You do realise that elimination in the middle of a global pandemic is not a one shot deal? Do it once and never see it again?
Of course I know that!

I'm not stupid enough to think you can completely eradicate the thing so long as you have international arrivals entering the country. Just like Gladys, the NT Premier and even - to a certain extent now she's been re-elected, Anna-Stayaway. The person you need to convince is Mark McGowan.

He's so hell-bent on this 'concept' of eradication that he thinks it means exactly that. Eradicate, gone, never-to-be-seen-again. Sadly, that isn't the reality. It is out there. It will get out of hotel quarantine again, we will have ongoing community transmission, no matter how well we try not to. And that's the point I made about EnZed. They had "eliminated" it, but it got back and they can't tell you how. Neither can NSW, nor Qld explain how their recent outbreaks made it out of the hotel quarantine system. But it did - and Mark McGoose did his usual trick of closing the door to stop the boogeyman, nevermind the action NSW and Qld took contained it quickly and effectively. If you have an ongoing caseload of 1:1,000,000 citizens, that's an outstanding effort in the global scheme of things. But that isn't good enough for ol' Mark.

So long as we have asreclowns like that, who think the only way to manage an outbreak interstate is to block all arrivals from that state, then that is more of an issue than the virus itself. Nevermind that WA has testified they can handle a COVID caseload of 5,000 active cases in their state. They don't want any and will stop at nothing to ensure it stays that way, no matter the (financial/emotional/personal) cost!

[lc_461]

Early in the pandemic there was an outbreak in TAS... later VIC, NSW, SA had their turn, then QLD. Only a matter of time for WA/ACT/NT - the challenge will be, particularly for WA - if there is an outbreak, is how their systems will cope. They haven't really been 'stress tested'. The population doesn't appear to be in a pandemic mindset. I would argue there are similar concerns for the NT with a large indigenous population, or ACT with a very small hospital system and very mobile community...

[The The]

Early in the pandemic there was an outbreak in TAS... later VIC, NSW, SA had their turn, then QLD. Only a matter of time for WA/ACT/NT - the challenge will be, particularly for WA - if there is an outbreak, is how their systems will cope. They haven't really been 'stress tested'. The population doesn't appear to be in a pandemic mindset. I would argue there are similar concerns for the NT with a large indigenous population, or ACT with a very small hospital system and very mobile community...

Yes it's unbelievable the way McGowan is behaving, WA is riding on luck that an outbreak hasn't happened, they are doing nothing special and the population is ulatra-lax. Its a time bomb and he may ultimately be the biggest goose ever!

[blubak]

Early in the pandemic there was an outbreak in TAS... later VIC, NSW, SA had their turn, then QLD. Only a matter of time for WA/ACT/NT - the challenge will be, particularly for WA - if there is an outbreak, is how their systems will cope. They haven't really been 'stress tested'. The population doesn't appear to be in a pandemic mindset. I would argue there are similar concerns for the NT with a large indigenous population, or ACT with a very small hospital system and very mobile community...
Couldnt agree more,there will be an outbreak there at some stage & apart from declaring a hard border since this all started,he hasnt had to deal with how to control it.
He likes to bleat about how good he is but his success is not based on how he has dealt with community transmission.
Other states have had to battle outbreaks( 1 in particular due to a massive stuff up) but in all cases now & not disputing how there are still rules affecting a lot of our movement around the country,the actions taken have worked.
McGowan hasnt been tested yet as far as a response goes.

[Ragnor]

McGoose wouldn’t be able to handle any case of community transmission he has been able to brainwash all of WA to think how good he has handled this in reality he has done nothing special. Where is the opposition in all of his questioning his border closure etc. it’s like it’s a one party show in WA

[WingNut60]

Couldnt agree more,there will be an outbreak there at some stage & apart from declaring a hard border since this all started,he hasnt had to deal with how to control it.
He likes to bleat about how good he is but his success is not based on how he has dealt with community transmission.


Please review your facts.
You may not remember but the West Australian voting public does.

31 March 2020The Department of Health has reported nine new cases of COVID-19 overnight, bringing the State’s total to 364.
All the new cases are from the Perth metropolitan area and all are self-isolating at home.
Four of the confirmed cases are travellers who have returned from overseas and three are close contacts of overseas travellers.
There are currently 54 confirmed COVID-19 patients in Perth metropolitan hospitals, with 12 in ICU.
The number of recovered cases in WA is now 48.


You may not have heard about the above.
It was difficult to hear at that time above Beryl's bleating that it wasn't her fault that the people got off the Ruby Princess and headed straight for the leagues clubs.

[C441]

McGoose wouldn’t be able to handle any case of community transmission he has been able to brainwash all of WA to think how good he has handled this in reality he has done nothing special. Where is the opposition in all of his questioning his border closure etc. it’s like it’s a one party show in WA
They're in the same Covid 'cone of silence' that Albo and the other opposition leaders around the country find themselves in. Whilst the 'leaders' have a daily press conference to announce their latest policy adjustment, the opposition will find it hard to heard unless they offer something significantly different. This in itself comes with the risk of never being able to prove it's likely value but easily denounced by said 'leader' with almost no chance of ever being proved wrong.

[KRviator]

So, of those 9 you've just quoted, 4 arrived from overseas with the Pestilence, three caught it from one of those 4 arrivals, leaving just two cases that look to be a function of 'community transmission'. I'd be really interested to know just how many "unknown" or genuine community cases WA has really had overall, compared to the other states.

McGoose has not had to deal with an outbreak of unknown source, as has SA, Qld or NSW, and he is riding high on his ability to do two things. 1 - fail to take in WA's fair share of international arrivals early in the piece, instead, leaving it to the likes of NSW & Victoria to handle the majority of international travellers returning to Australia, which essentially means his "0" number is built on a lie and, 2 - his knee-jerk reaction to any outbreak nationwide by closing the borders to keep his treasured "0" number, notwithstanding WA has testified (in open court, remember) that their health system can handle 5,000 active cases of COVID in the community at any one time.

If it can handle that many cases, then why close the border? Why deny 23,000,000 citizens their right to travel to WA if they so choose? The answer to that is simple. IT is no longer about COVID so much as it is about his chances of re-election. WA has staked their entire COVID response on, essentially, thumbing their nose at everyone else, with little real preparedness or meaningful attempt at a common way of dealing with it and ScoMo lacks the balls to call him out on it.

I'm sure NSW could replicate WA's achievement of "no cases for 8 months" if Gladys restricted international arrivals through Sydney from the nominal 2,450 per week to "only" 500 per week like Perth did. OR maybe they could be like Tasmania, and take zero international arrivals, instead, relying on the goodwill of other states to carry the entire risk of an outbreak, and then close our borders to travelers from those states anyway?

[WingNut60]

I'm sure NSW could replicate WA's achievement of "no cases for 8 months" if Gladys restricted international arrivals through Sydney from the nominal 2,450 per week to "only" 500 per week like Perth did. OR maybe they could be like Tasmania, and take zero international arrivals, instead, relying on the goodwill of other states to carry the entire risk of an outbreak, and then close our borders to travelers from those states anyway?

Selective ignorance.

It has been documented here on several occasions that since last September, on a per capita basis, WA has taken (slightly) more returnees than any other state.
That remains correct even now after the recent reductions to 2450 and 512 respectively.

For those who think (sic - presumes capability to think) that W.A. has not had cases of unknown origin please take the time to check here WA Covid statistics (https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/359bca83a1264e3fb8d3b6f0a028d768)

[Ragnor]

Per capita basis on taking citizens has zero relevance, if we are to be going down this route WA should be taking double the amount of any state as they have more per square meter space available for internationals to quarantine.

[WingNut60]

Per capita basis on taking citizens has zero relevance, if we are to be going down this route WA should be taking double the amount of any state as they have more per square meter space available for internationals to quarantine.
Is that the best you can come up with?
Per capita reflects proportional capability to manage arrivals, quarantine, enforcement, hospitals, etc.

Pls refer "Capability to think" in my previous post.

[jrfsp]

I would have actually thought it should be proportionate to the amount of people actually living in that state...or as a proportion of pre covid intl arrivals.

[Clare Prop]

Plus we had to deal with Artania and Magnifica and freight ships with covid positive members. I haven't heard anyone here in WA complain about how McGowan has handled things. Compared to the debacles in some of the other states we have done pretty well, but yes there is an element of luck in that the ones that have escaped from quarantine haven't been positive.

[neville_nobody]

I haven't heard anyone here in WA complain about how McGowan has handled things. Compared to the debacles in some of the other states we have done pretty well, but yes there is an element of luck in that the ones that have escaped from quarantine haven't been positive.

The people who reside in safe Labor seats aren't complaining. However plenty of farmers aren't happy as they can't get staff for harvest. Hospitality will be next cab off the rank. If it goes on long enough it will spread to mining. There is an article today in the AFR about a Pub who can't get a chef because of the border arrangements. As a result the Pub now has reduced hours. That cost the owner money.

Eventually the people in the safe Labor electorates will start complaining when they have to pay Rockpool prices at their local Pub and the plumber cost $1000 to change a few washes. However by the time this occurs McGowan will be safely into his second term, so he doesn't care.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

leaving it to the likes of NSW & Victoria to handle the majority of international travellers
To be fair, SYD and MEL were the two busiest International ports. When flying pretty much stopped, those few airlines left flying were still pretty much SYD and MEL usual carriers. BNE's problem was the business is all Pacific island, or hubbed through SIN, HKG or the middle east, and all those places locked down tight. You couldn't transit through them, so you couldn't get to BNE. China stopped. If it hadn't been for QR and Doha, BNE would have had no international business at all. For a while there, it was the only thing flying. Sure there's been the odd adhoc repat, but not many. Aviation policy in this country is SYD-centric anyway. It's probably the only airport most of the pollies could think of.
I also think NSW didn't have mandatory quarantine for domestic arrivals from interstate? This was what brought the Intl Pax cap on for arrivals into BNE, because the hotel supply was filled up with interstate detainees as a priority, with intls getting what was left.
Once domestic quarantine eased, many BNE (and other areas) hotels said they did not want quarantine pax back, as they were busier with intrastate tourism, and didn't want the hassles, issues , and restrictions that quarantine brought. They were happy to take the business when it was the only business, but they don't need or want it now.

[SOPS]

What I would like to know is, how is it possible that there are about 18000 Victorians locked out of their own home State, but Tennis Australia can bring in 1200 players and hangers on for a stupid game?

[neville_nobody]

What I would like to know is, how is it possible that there are about 18000 Victorians locked out of their own home State, but Tennis Australia can bring in 1200 payers and hangers on for a stupid game?

Because some of us are more equal than others. Get used to that ideal under the current State Government. It's all about them controlling people's lives, that's how totalitarians think.
Alan Joyce is getting fired up over the issue too.

[Sunfish]

The tennis players are here because of a long standing agreement and three months of very detailed planning (I was advised by someone who has a part in it) and a comprehensive organisational plan. When each Victorian can provide the same undertakings and level of detail, they can get special treatment too.

Having said that, I'm not certain that the tennis crew will abide by the undertakings.

Some of you still don't understand that this is a dynamic situation that changes hour by hour. Of course its not fair, life isn't fair. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time you will cop it.

The moral of the story is don't travel unless you have to, have backup plans, listen to the news hourly and be prepared to move fast.

As an example, I was told last night about someones kids with grandkids on a beach holiday in Queensland or NSW, not sure which, their parents literally threw everything into the car, grabbed their kids off the beach, not even stopping to change them out of their sandy wet bathers, and made it back across the Victorian border just in time.

I am also aware of various mine workers who claim to have driven parts of the Newell at 180 KMH to beat border closure deadlines. They are now "Locked in" at their mines apparently for another month because the company wont accept FIFO workers from BNE or SYD.

Stamping your little foot and crying "its not fair" is not a useful response to the pandemic. Another covid mutation has happened in Brazil and Europe (Britain?) has just banned all travellers from South America as a result.

[jrfsp]

China is building a massive quarantine centre of 33ha.....yet here we are with CBD hotels.....i wonder how many outbreaks we'll have this year, particularly if it is spread through AC systems....Howard springs type arrangements seem the way to go.

[WingNut60]

............However plenty of farmers aren't happy as they can't get DIRT CHEAP staff for harvest..

There. I fixed that bit for you.
But hey........lack of backpackers? Isn't that under Federal Government control?
And wouldn't they just be displacing returning Australian from flights ? And jobs?

Eventually the people in the safe Labor electorates will start complaining when they have to pay Rockpool prices at their local Pub and the plumber cost $1000 to change a few washes.
A bit late with that one mate. That happened years ago.
And with the West Australian economy booming the price of lager is not high on anyone's list of concerns.

[WingNut60]

China is building a massive quarantine centre of 33ha.....yet here we are with CBD hotels.....i wonder how many outbreaks we'll have this year, particularly if it is spread through AC systems....Howard springs type arrangements seem the way to go.

I agree. That's why I suggested Curtin or Learmonth some several posts back.
Reported yesterday that McGowan is pushing the same idea.

China is fortunate in having those re-education camps out west in Xinjiang on which to model their quarantine facility.
And if China needs 33 ha then, Oz will need just 1/2 ha. (Scale it)

[zanthrus]

Who in Australia gives a toss what China is or isn’t doing. They released this bio weapon on us and bleat and complain when we call them on it. No more coal wine iron ore food for you China, at least from OZ.

[jrfsp]

Who in Australia gives a toss what China is or isn’t doing. They released this bio weapon on us and bleat and complain when we call them on it. No more coal wine iron ore food for you China, at least from OZ.

Well considering they are our largest trading partner...largest export market, largest intl student demographic, largest intl tourist market by number and by $ spend, etc etc......id say pretty damn important

[Paragraph377]

All these COVID scared pilots on this thread, studying the virus to the enth degree and becoming some sort of mini super guru’s in the field of viruses. It’s not the virus that has crashed the global economy, it’s the stupid politicians that have killed off the economy, tourism and everything else. Grow a set, get on with life, deal with it don’t let it be the only obsession you have. It is one of many viruses that kills people annually. They panicked, they’ve created a monster (shutting down the world over and over) and now they cant undo the monster.

[Dannyboy39]

So closing off the borders cost $3bn across Australia from lost tourism over Christmas. How much does that equate per case?

Another question for the border extremists wanting to banish people to Christmas Island... a big proportion of the western world is vaccinated with the Pfizer, Moderna or AZ vaccine (I mention these by name as I see Australian politicians are citing supposed “problems” with AZ). All vulnerable people are vaccinated. In six months a big proportion of Australia has “herd immunity”. There are however background transmissions without hospitalisation.

What is the danger to the Australian public? Or is this 1 case and you’re out policy going to continue forever and ever?

[blubak]

Because some of us are more equal than others. Get used to that ideal under the current State Government. It's all about them controlling people's lives, that's how totalitarians think.
Alan Joyce is getting fired up over the issue too.
If alan joyce thinks he knows so much why doesnt he advise the irish govt on how to control the cases over there!
Was over 8000 in 1 day early this week & currently around 4000.
Im sick of people like him with no medical qualifications trying to impress his money orientated views.
He needs to butt out of things he doesnt know f all about.

[dr dre]

a big proportion of the western world is vaccinated with the Pfizer, Moderna or AZ vaccine (I mention these by name as I see Australian politicians are citing supposed “problems” with AZ). All vulnerable people are vaccinated. In six months a big proportion of Australia has “herd immunity”. There are however background transmissions without hospitalisation.

What is the danger to the Australian public? Or is this 1 case and you’re out policy going to continue forever and ever?

No scientist or medical expert has ever said the goal of the immunisation program is 100% eradication of the virus from existence everywhere on the planet.

The goal is to stop the pandemic. Not stop a virus. To prevent most cases of severe disease amongst vulnerable populations, to stop health system overload, to prevent mass death.

The reason why people are concerned about low numbers of cases now is the population and especially vulnerable groups are not immunised. With no real social distancing and a high reproduction number the virus can spread exponentially and overwhelm health system as we’ve seen in so many other countries. A mass vaccination program removes this risk, and therefore changes the health practices and advice that is issued for isolated cases of the virus.

This really isn’t difficult stuff, it’s pretty basic disease control knowledge you would learn in the first year of a medical degree.

Few vaccines prevent infection. Here is why that's not a problem (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-07/why-few-vaccines-prevent-infection/13037274)

[Ragnor]

If alan joyce thinks he knows so much why doesnt he advise the irish govt on how to control the cases over there!
Was over 8000 in 1 day early this week & currently around 4000.
Im sick of people like him with no medical qualifications trying to impress his money orientated views.
He needs to butt out of things he doesnt know f all about.

In AJ defense as it seems you did not read the article today he was having a go at DA for allowing tennis players and wanting international students into the country. DA won’t even allow Victorian residents to cross the border to go home that’s why AJ is getting fired up.

[neville_nobody]

What is the danger to the Australian public? Or is this 1 case and you’re out policy going to continue forever and ever?

The danger is the implementation of totalitarianism under the guise of a public health campaign. How long can these "states of emergency" continue? Decades?

He needs to butt out of things he doesnt know f all about.

No his point is the hypocrisy. Banning Australian Citizens from visiting dying relatives/funerals/weddings etc because of the "chance" of spreading Corona Virus, yet letting in a bunch of Tennis players, from Countries with large Corona Virus outbreaks, one of whom is still testing positive. Either it's a Public Health emergency or it isn't.

Let's be honest the current state of play with State Borders is going destroy all interstate RPT aviation if it goes on for another year.

[Icarus2001]

No his point is the hypocrisy. Banning Australian Citizens from visiting dying relatives/funerals/weddings etc because of the "chance" of spreading Corona Virus, yet letting in a bunch of Tennis players, from Countries with large Corona Virus outbreaks, one of whom is still testing positive. Either it's a Public Health emergency or it isn't.

Exactly. How long until the attitude of the carefully "brainwashed" public changes. The media are playing along with the need for lock down at present but that will change, especially when they get a whiff that the mood of the great unwashed has changed.

[Paragraph377]

The danger is the implementation of totalitarianism under the guise of a public health campaign. How long can these "states of emergency" continue? Decades?
No his point is the hypocrisy. Banning Australian Citizens from visiting dying relatives/funerals/weddings etc because of the "chance" of spreading Corona Virus, yet letting in a bunch of Tennis players, from Countries with large Corona Virus outbreaks, one of whom is still testing positive. Either it's a Public Health emergency or it isn't.
Let's be honest the current state of play with State Borders is going destroy all interstate RPT aviation if it goes on for another year.

Here here!!! Finally a voice or reason in amongst a thread of panic merchants. Nobody is looking at the health costs of increased mental health issues, people with cancers etc going undiagnosed, exponential increase in suicides globally, not to mention the immeasurable financial hit. Effing bureaucrats shutting down entire States and countries if there is just a whiff of a single person with the virus. FFS, enough of this ****. Protect the elderly as best you can and get on with life. Learn to live with it. The majority of people, over 98%, who get it survive!!! If you are a fat diabetic American or an oil loving cigarette smoking European then you are highly vulnerable and you only have yourself to blame. For the time being wash your hands, wear a bloody mask in public but get on with life. FFS

[Bodie1]

No scientist or medical expert has ever said the goal of the immunisation program is 100% eradication of the virus from existence everywhere on the planet.

You might want to let that bogan redneck premier know.

[FlareHighLandLong]

So, can anyone tell me right now what it looks like in late April, When every vulnerable Australian has been immunised (or offered it). 4 millions doses by the end of March should have covered that, and we’re now working our way down the age groups.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-07/australia-coronavirus-vaccine-brought-forward-mid-february/13039078
(and let’s accept that they achieve the target)

what does the Re-opening look like? I’m thinking:

the departure restriction becomes indefensible (if it wasn’t already)
crew have reduced home isolation but must be vaccinated. Still strict Covid while away

a coupe of months later (June?) quarantine becomes home quarantine and/or reduced for people who can show they have been vaccinated with one of the approved vaccines (one of the approved Aussie ones, Pfizer, moderna, AstraZeneca by then, and in accordance with the Australian evidence standard which we assume is implemented). State border closures can no longer be justified (if they ever were)
Crew are still required to follow strict Covid rules while away, but no restrictions on return.

at some point (sep?) nobody enters the country without an approved vaccine.
crew allowed normal behaviours on trips, and no quarantine on return.

[dr dre]

Nobody is looking at the health costs of increased mental health issues
No increase in suicide rate so far (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/09/suicide-figures-show-no-increase-in-rate-in-nsw-or-victoria-during-covid). Probably attributable to jobkeeper.

people with cancers etc going undiagnosed,
No real change in Medicare and PBS payouts from 19 to 20 (https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/health-care-quality-performance/covid-impacts-on-mbs-and-pbs/contents/impact-on-mbs-service-use), after a short decrease in March/April, suggesting the same amount of medical services were being accessed in 2020 as 2019.

not to mention the immeasurable financial hit.
USA and Europe took a bigger financial hit, due to the pandemic currently raging through those places. All in all Australia's lock it out policy has done the best job.

The majority of people, over 98%, who get it survive!!!
A CFR of 2% (disregarding health system pressures, and long term complications) is actually really bad.

If you are a fat diabetic American or an oil loving cigarette smoking European
Australia has a higher obesity rate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate) than Belgium, France, Italy, Spain and a higher or comparable smoking rate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita) than the UK, Sweden, Chile, Ireland which have all been hammered by the pandemic. Which suggests similar infection and death rates would present here if we "just learnt to live with it".

[dr dre]

crew have reduced home isolation but must be vaccinated. Still strict Covid while away

a coupe of months later (June?) quarantine becomes home quarantine and/or reduced for people who can show they have been vaccinated with one of the approved vaccines (one of the approved Aussie ones, Pfizer, moderna, AstraZeneca by then, and in accordance with the Australian evidence standard which we assume is implemented). State border closures can no longer be justified (if they ever were)
Crew are still required to follow strict Covid rules while away, but no restrictions on return.

at some point (sep?) nobody enters the country without an approved vaccine.
crew allowed normal behaviours on trips, and no quarantine on return.

That's a pretty fair guess I reckon. It'll be a staggered return in any case. I think the big change will be when herd immunity is reached, last's year's flu vaccine got to 60% before winter, no reason with a free vaccine and a massive public relations campaign Covid vax couldn't be done sooner or wider.

[Ragnor]

EK are terminating flights to SY, ML and BN indefinitely in January. EK will still fly twice a week to PH

Dubai-Brisbane (EK430), January 16
Brisbane-Dubai (EK431), January 17
Dubai-Sydney (EK414), January 18
Sydney-Dubai (EK415), January 19
Dubai-Melbourne (EK408), January 19
Melbourne-Dubai (EK409), January 20

[Paragraph377]

No increase in suicide rate so far (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/09/suicide-figures-show-no-increase-in-rate-in-nsw-or-victoria-during-covid). Probably attributable to jobkeeper.


No real change in Medicare and PBS payouts from 19 to 20 (https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/health-care-quality-performance/covid-impacts-on-mbs-and-pbs/contents/impact-on-mbs-service-use), after a short decrease in March/April, suggesting the same amount of medical services were being accessed in 2020 as 2019.


USA and Europe took a bigger financial hit, due to the pandemic currently raging through those places. All in all Australia's lock it out policy has done the best job.


A CFR of 2% (disregarding health system pressures, and long term complications) is actually really bad.


Australia has a higher obesity rate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate) than Belgium, France, Italy, Spain and a higher or comparable smoking rate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita) than the UK, Sweden, Chile, Ireland which have all been hammered by the pandemic. Which suggests similar infection and death rates would present here if we "just learnt to live with it".

You cherry pick what suits you in your response. Firstly, quoting Government published statistics is akin to believing we have reptilians living amongst us. Anyone believing the Government has already been fooled.

Secondly, our financial hit has been huge. Maybe big corporations and large companies are weathering things, just, but try telling your theory of “it’s not too bad here” to the tens of thousands of businesses that have gone to the wall. The real impact of COVID is yet to be seen. We are still in the early days of this maelstrom. The full impact is on its way.

[Predator Jock]

We are still in the early days of this maelstrom. The full impact is on its way.
I agree with Para377. The Great Depression ‘began’ in 1929 but it took four years before it bottomed in some countries, with many still flat at the start of WW2. Demand went off a cliff. Ever wonder why your grandparents or great grandparents never threw anything out and we’re constantly coming up with ways to repair the unrepairable? Back in the day they weren’t going to the pub to pay Rockpool prices or having a plumber come in to change washers. They were busy tightening their belts and making do.

It’s going to be unpalatable to many but eventually we will be best served by coming to terms with being the quarry and paddock for 1.7 billion eager customers. Put it to the voters.

[goodonyamate]

Paragraph377-One thing you forgot was the requirement for 1000’s more solicitors.
There will be mass class actions and law suit‘s before this is all over.

hopefully against McGowan, palachook and Andrews personally.

[dr dre]

You cherry pick what suits you in your response. Firstly, quoting Government published statistics is akin to believing we have reptilians living amongst us. Anyone believing the Government has already been fooled.


So where’s the “real” info then mate? I’ve tried to back up my statements with official sources and hard data but all you do is decry “that’s BS” and then offer nothing of your own?

Reminds me of this:


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/503x610/4460b029_ef98_46f8_a32e_b87fc036916c_bb19e845530748b240ef571 c542b8987dd2d8f4b.jpeg

[neville_nobody]

Frank Swain might want to remember he who pays the piper calls the tune, which has becomes a bit of an issue in more recent times. You only need to look at all the recanting so-called scientists did when Jeffry Epstein died and all their funding dried up.

[dr dre]

Oh no so now all the “so called scientific experts” are on the pay check of the globalist paedophile cult! Please enlighten us how this is linked to pizzagate, Q-Anon and the great reset, and how Trump will save us from it all.....

[Vag277]

...and the fred publics think airline pilots are intelligent!!!!!

[neville_nobody]

Oh no so now all the “so called scientific experts” are on the pay check of the globalist paedophile cult! Please enlighten us how this is linked to pizzagate, Q-Anon and the great reset, and how Trump will save us from it all.....

No nothing to do with that. Epstein was privately funding eugenic research but when he died so did the funding. The scientist then came out and said their research should be discounted.

I'm sure a few large corporations have spun research one way or another to suit their ends as well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/31/business/jeffrey-epstein-eugenics.html

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/09/what-kind-researcher-did-sex-offender-jeffrey-epstein-fund-he-told-science-he-died

[SOPS]

Positive cases arriving with the Tennis people.... here we go again!!!!

[CaptCloudbuster]

The tennis players are here because of a long standing agreement and three months of very detailed planning (I was advised by someone who has a part in it) and a comprehensive organisational plan. When each Victorian can provide the same undertakings and level of detail, they can get special treatment too..

Some of you still don't understand.....

The moral of the story is don't travel unless you have to, have backup plans, listen to the news hourly and be prepared to move fast.

All that beautiful planning and yet our betters & overlords still didn’t understand what a terrible risk they were playing with the peasants!

Moral of the story is unless you’re big business, a celebrity, a sportsperson or Uber rich you’ll do what the overlords say not what they do.Two coronavirus cases reportedly confirmed on Australian Open chartered flight into Melbourne (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-16/coronavirus-cases-onboard-australian-open-chartered-flight/13063920)

[Chris2303]

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/covid19-nsw-vic-qld-live-updates-uk-strain-in-brisbane-sydney-cluster-border-closures/live-coverage/1cedc370a09487c7a50c2e0c62c8f1b4?fbclid=IwAR3BwB4AB5RNPacYop 9x0qpCM1iY1wEYTDdvDDY7P8hvoOYxD0Q6TrRJ2lE

[layman]

neville_nobody (and others)

As asked before, what verifiable information do you offer in place of published scientific research?

You seem to omitting the effect of ‘peer review’ from your attempt at disparagement of scientific research (and government statistics).

I would have been very surprised (we’ll never know now) if research sponsored by Epstein would have been published in a recognised scientific journal.

Peer review culls most of the ‘not proven‘/‘not verifiable‘/‘not repeatable’ from publication and is independent of the money. If you’ve been through academic ‘peer review’ you’ll understand just what a blood sport it can be.

There is generally more to be gained by proving some research has issues than the actual research itself.

[neville_nobody]

As asked before, what verifiable information do you offer in place of published scientific research?

You seem to omitting the effect of ‘peer review’ from your attempt at disparagement of scientific research (and government statistics).

I would have been very surprised (we’ll never know now) if research sponsored by Epstein would have been published in a recognised scientific journal.

Peer review culls most of the ‘not proven‘/‘not verifiable‘/‘not repeatable’ from publication and is independent of the money. If you’ve been through academic ‘peer review’ you’ll understand just what a blood sport it can be.

There is generally more to be gained by proving some research has issues than the actual research itself.

I am not arguing that. Just saying things need to be read in balance and taken with a grain of salt. Not everything is black and white and not all scientific research or government data is 100% honest.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

neville_nobody (and others)

As asked before, what verifiable information do you offer in place of published scientific research?

You seem to omitting the effect of ‘peer review’ from your attempt at disparagement of scientific research (and government statistics).

I would have been very surprised (we’ll never know now) if research sponsored by Epstein would have been published in a recognised scientific journal.

Peer review culls most of the ‘not proven‘/‘not verifiable‘/‘not repeatable’ from publication and is independent of the money. If you’ve been through academic ‘peer review’ you’ll understand just what a blood sport it can be.

There is generally more to be gained by proving some research has issues than the actual research itself.
Don't mistake "peer review" as any sort of gold standard. It does not guarantee that the research is the truth, and it does not guarantee that vested interests are not at work. There is often no process to follow, or level to achieve to claim peer review status. There is little proof that it actually improves anything. It's become a rubber stamp catch-all to stifle debate.

[dr dre]

Don't mistake "peer review" as any sort of gold standard. It does not guarantee that the research is the truth
Not everything is black and white and not all scientific research or government data is 100% honest.

When you are claiming, without the relevant medical qualifications, that the scientific derived consensus on this pandemic is incorrect you had better provide some very, very solid evidence and be prepared to have it stand up to massive amounts of scrutiny. Otherwise you really are just sprouting conspiracy theories.

and it does not guarantee that vested interests are not at work

One could say that some pilots who want things to get back to how they were before this happened have a vested interest in minimising and downplaying any risks associated with the pandemic or just outright claiming it's a hoax and claiming all restrictions that affect their income like border closures are pointless. Therefore they are more susceptible to fall for pseudoscience and propaganda.

I understand the hardships plenty in this industry are facing. That's why we need to listen to the medical experts and follow their advice (social distancing, remote quarantining, mass uptake of the vaccine) in order to get back to normal as soon as safely possible.

[Joker89]

Dre, you seem to live in a fantasy land where everything the government says (and supported by their paid “expert” lap dogs) is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

there are as many studies in support of and against lockdowns. There is no consensus.

what is clear is this is a political wet dream and these chief medical officers are basking in their glory of being important rule makers for the only time in their lives. They don’t want this to end.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

When you are claiming, without the relevant medical qualifications, that the scientific derived consensus on this pandemic is incorrect you had better provide some very, very solid evidence and be prepared to have it stand up to massive amounts of scrutiny. Otherwise you really are just sprouting conspiracy theories.
I wasn't claiming that at all. I was rebutting the comment that peer review is the be all and end all of the argument.

Royal Society of Medicine (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1420798/)
Nature (https://www.nature.com/news/publishing-the-peer-review-scam-1.16400)
NY Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/05/upshot/peer-review-the-worst-way-to-judge-research-except-for-all-the-others.html)
Science Alert (https://www.sciencealert.com/this-study-just-revealed-why-the-peer-review-process-sucks-so-much)
Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_review)

Etc etc.

[Paragraph377]

Mr Dre, why don’t you come out and support the WHO’s October 2020 statement that lockdowns shouldn’t be the only option adopted? It would seem Jeannette Young and Daniel Andrews haven’t been listening. And the QLD Premier along with lapdog Young shut down a city of 2.2m people for 3 days due to 1 solitary case.

Oh well, I guess some people on here are so scared and have so much of fear of a virus that they are prepared to be brainwashed by the Government establishments who lie and deceive with every word they speak. Some peoples comfort blanket is strange indeed.

[dr dre]

I wasn't claiming that at all. I was rebutting the comment that peer review is the be all and end all of the argument.


Those articles are mostly highlighting some issues with the scientific peer review process and suggesting improvements, not saying the peer review process should be discarded completely, to be replaced by....what?

Yes, there are some papers and articles published saying that lockdowns don't work, or more accurately say that current lockdown measures should be altered. However, there is a lot, and I mean a lot, of other articles, statements, evidence and authoritative opinion by far more scientists and medical experts saying they do work, and have produced identifiable results.

So what I say is that if the vast bulk of epidemiologists and public health experts aren't convinced by or entertaining this alternate opinion out there then why should I? Why should anyone posting here, unless they have a secret double life as an epidemiologist? Why do some without any authority to tell scientists they're wrong continue to do it? It has a psychological basis (https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/covid-19-conspiracy-theorists-victims-050056112.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cDovL20uZmFjZWJvb2suY29tLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEOlKvEr18vM88clDsT_PyhMFoUBUE6M422xg3 twvEC-LyfCX9QbBNBuR-JjEdeR9ZNuYb1qEUGZ4MsiDhGee8hC-bukNlKfFsPlsF0wtUKiTRv0qHAOWjWw0aJGI4yQTWNy9mNLZOtdXu20a9IqG eTEFCXLpKAySHnauV7XhudE&guccounter=2).

Conspiracy theorists have freed themselves from the lies of The Establishment, the Deep State, the Mainstream “Fake-News” Media. They, and their robust group of like-minded science-deniers, are the only ones who know the real truth. They know something — a lot of things, actually — that the rest of us don’t. They laugh at what fools we are for falling prey to obvious political agendas of scientists who are, after all, notorious for making baseless claims, duh. Everyone who does not share their ideas is a gullible idiot.

There is nothing to be done to dissuade these self-professed experts of their rightness. The fact that scientists live and work by a code that requires them to revise their hypotheses when new data is presented only confirms their belief. Scientists are sometimes wrong, but they, the conspiracy theorists, have always been right. And every new news article, every new study, every new expert opinion, only serves as further evidence that the world is against them.

[dr dre]

Mr Dre, why don’t you come out and support the WHO’s October 2020 statement that lockdowns shouldn’t be the only option adopted?

It was more one statement from a WHO doctor than an official WHO position but his words were taken out of context and misrepresented, in fact his position is pretty much grounded in scientific consensus.

WHO is right: lockdowns should be short and sharp. Here are 4 other essential COVID-19 strategies (https://theconversation.com/who-is-right-lockdowns-should-be-short-and-sharp-here-are-4-other-essential-covid-19-strategies-148175)

No, the WHO Didn’t Change Its Lockdown Stance or ‘Admit’ Trump Was Right (https://khn.org/news/fact-check-world-health-organization-did-not-change-its-lockdown-stance-or-admit-president-trump-was-right/)

My biggest concern is with the "this virus is no worse than the flu, let's just get back to how things were before ASAP" types though.

[Paragraph377]

My biggest concern is with the "this virus is no worse than the flu, let's just get back to how things were before ASAP" types though.
Well don’t concern yourself too much as Jeanette Young, Palasczuk, Danny Andrews et al have us all in their safe grasp. Perhaps you can offer them some of your expert experience in COVID matters Dre? With the amount of COVID knowledge and insight you are endlessly posting here that would be a better use of your time. I think the majority of pilots on here are interested in flying again ASAP rather than wanting to hide in a basement with a paper mask on.

Incidentally, my biggest concern is with the “we are happy to see additional millions of people unemployed and our Nations bUsinesses folding and our country being saddled with an extra 30 years worth of debt for future generations” types.

[dr dre]

Well paragraph377 we would want similar things. For the most part the road map is clear on the way out. If can remote quarantine or do the best to prevent outbreaks from hotels (some states are doing this) and then we run a successful immunisation program that gets the required level of herd immunity soon we could be on the way to seeing the most risky parts of this pandemic over in 6 months and the disruptions to the industry mostly gone by year's end.

[Paragraph377]

Well paragraph377 we would want similar things. For the most part the road map is clear on the way out. If can remote quarantine or do the best to prevent outbreaks from hotels (some states are doing this) and then we run a successful immunisation program that gets the required level of herd immunity soon we could be on the way to seeing the most risky parts of this pandemic over in 6 months and the disruptions to the industry mostly gone by year's end.

Now you’re talking! Agree

[Kickstarter]

according to Australia lamb corp we'll be locked up with Berlin like walls til 2031.

Search Australia day lamb advert on you tube. Watch the long version that goes for 2 min 30.

I doubt we'll be locked up much longer, or we'll have civil war/coup d'etat

Luckily it's insanely easy to get a very powerful gun.

.https://youtu.be/7g0kCnnTeMg

[thisishardtochoose]

Well don’t concern yourself too much as Jeanette Young, Palasczuk, Danny Andrews et al have us all in their safe grasp.

You missed your Liberal mates in SA and Tassie, both of whom did fast lockdowns. SA being somewhat of a very big overreaction too.

Quite literally the only premier in Aus that seems to be against this approach is Morrisons lapdop in NSW

[Ragnor]

I bet Danny A is regretting the tennis now. They’re testing positive left right and centre also complaining about the hotel food and conditions this will be interesting 14 days.

[Green.Dot]

Cry me a river tennis players. People have busted their gut to make this tournament happen for you to give YOU an income. Get on the next plane out of town if you can’t handle 14 days in a hotel which 99.9% of returned travellers have to endure.

Pfft 2 weeks tennis uncurrent. Try 12 months not flying an aeroplane.

[WingNut60]

Incidentally, my biggest concern is with the “we are happy to see additional millions of people unemployed and our Nations bUsinesses folding and our country being saddled with an extra 30 years worth of debt for future generations” types.

Western Australian unemployment rate is sitting at 6.0%, almost exactly where it was at the end of 2019.
Western Australian business confidence has been reported at a 13 year high.
The Western Australian government has declared a $2.2 billion dollar surplus for Y2020.
You can't get a booking at any of our tourist areas - they're fully booked.

WA is not experiencing "additional millions of people unemployed". Nor are our states businesses folding.
And the rate at which the state is being saddled with debt remains largely unchanged.
As for federal debt, better to have a chat with ScoMo.

The single biggest current threat to that position is for some virulent, ****-brained expeditioner to fly in and head straight to a night out at six of our (open, and unrestricted) night-spots.

Now tell me again, what is McGowan supposed to be doing wrong?

[currawong]

Dre, you seem to live in a fantasy land where everything the government says (and supported by their paid “expert” lap dogs) is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

there are as many studies in support of and against lockdowns. There is no consensus.

what is clear is this is a political wet dream and these chief medical officers are basking in their glory of being important rule makers for the only time in their lives. They don’t want this to end.

:}

No mate. I would say they are busting for it to end.

Have you ever, ever seen a public servant happy about doing extra work?

Neither have I.

[dr dre]

Now tell me again, what is McGowan supposed to be doing wrong?

He’s a member of a left wing party who is very popular and almost certain to be re-elected and the amount of pilots who consume nothing but right wing media is significant. That right wing media pretty much tells them to hate any Labor leader without question.

There’s a thought that if he dropped all border restrictions then domestic travel would pretty much automatically return to pre pandemic levels. This is despite every other part of the world that has not restricted travel has seen a massive drop off in demand while the virus is spreading throughout that country. For instance, with the exception of the remotely located Hawaii, not for one moment have any of the other 49 US states enacted borders, yet 100,000 US aviation jobs have been lost this year. The only way things get back to normal is with the ending of this pandemic, not quickie openings of borders.

[bekolblockage]

He’s a member of a left wing party who is very popular and almost certain to be re-elected and the amount of pilots who consume nothing but right wing media is significant. That right wing media pretty much tells them to hate any Labor leader without question.

There’s a thought that if he dropped all border restrictions then domestic travel would pretty much automatically return to pre pandemic levels. This is despite every other part of the world that has not restricted travel has seen a massive drop off in demand while the virus is spreading throughout that country. For instance, with the exception of the remotely located Hawaii, not for one moment have any of the other 49 US states enacted borders, yet 100,000 US aviation jobs have been lost this year. The only way things get back to normal is with the ending of this pandemic, not quickie openings of borders.

Of those 100,000 , how many would you say were related to the International sector of their operations?? My impression was that domestic was still humming along at a moderate pace.

[WingNut60]

In "normal" times, what percentage of Australian domestic passenger travel does east-west travel constitute?
If it's more than 15% I'd be very surprised.

My prediction? When normalcy resumes, it will NOT return as it was pre-Covid. At least, not for that east-west travel.
Once the initial rush of repatriation and family re-unions has run its race it might settle down to about 70% of previous, if you're lucky.
Business has learned very well that a lot of the inter-state business travel can be accommodated very efficiently and cheaply with video-conferencing.
Mining companies have already announced their displeasure at reliance on inter-state FiFo.
And without businesses paying for PER-MEL-SYD_BNE jaunts the price of economy flights is sure to go up.

And AJ is sure to want another look at the viability of the connector onto the mid-night horror Perth-London.

[dr dre]

Of those 100,000 , how many would you say were related to the International sector of their operations?? My impression was that domestic was still humming along at a moderate pace.

If you call a 50% cut humming along. Most US flying is domestic, and carriers like Southwest that operate almost exclusively domestic are still cutting sectors by 40%. Low demand is the cause.

American Airlines Cuts November Schedule by Nearly Half ‘to Match Low Demand’ (https://www.aviationpros.com/airlines/news/21157175/american-airlines-cuts-november-schedule-by-nearly-half-to-match-low-demand)

[currawong]

Of those 100,000 , how many would you say were related to the International sector of their operations?? My impression was that domestic was still humming along at a moderate pace.

Does not really answer the question but does give some indication -

https://www.tsa.gov/coronavirus/passenger-throughput

[dr dre]

And AJ is sure to want another look at the viability of the connector onto the mid-night horror Perth-London.

Most indications were that before the last series of outbreaks domestic travel, including east west, was looking at a return to similar numbers as pre pandemic.

But all indications are PER-LHR will be one of the first international routes to return because it is one of the best money spinners, a monopoly atm. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if more direct routes are added, these flights are actually quite popular.

[Green.Dot]

It might be 50% of the normal flight schedule, but in terms of pax carried I reckon it’s sitting at around 25-30% of the pre COVID levels. Will be interesting to see the official stats if they release them.

[Clare Prop]

Western Australian unemployment rate is sitting at 6.0%, almost exactly where it was at the end of 2019.
Western Australian business confidence has been reported at a 13 year high.
The Western Australian government has declared a $2.2 billion dollar surplus for Y2020.
You can't get a booking at any of our tourist areas - they're fully booked.

WA is not experiencing "additional millions of people unemployed". Nor are our states businesses folding.
And the rate at which the state is being saddled with debt remains largely unchanged.
As for federal debt, better to have a chat with ScoMo.

The single biggest current threat to that position is for some virulent, ****-brained expeditioner to fly in and head straight to a night out at six of our (open, and unrestricted) night-spots.

Now tell me again, what is McGowan supposed to be doing wrong?

Hear hear! WA is doing very nicely, don't forget we've also had to deal with cruise ships and other vessels with infected people on board. I wasn't a huge fan of McGowan before all this (mainly due to the Barry Urban debacle) but he has shown, like some other premiers, that consistancyin leadership is what is needed. Others and their flip flopping around and trying to shift the blame around hasn't done any good in their states has actually killed rather a lot of people.

All my friends in the tourism industry have said they are busier than ever, booked up months ahead and having trouble getting staff to keep up with the demand. Sandgropers are realising that they live in the best place in the world and wanting to explore it more, especially after intrastate borders were lifted. Shopkeepers unable to get stock in fast enough to keep up with demand.

As for flying, my aviation business is busier than ever.

[Dannyboy39]

according to Australia lamb corp we'll be locked up with Berlin like walls til 2031.

Search Australia day lamb advert on you tube. Watch the long version that goes for 2 min 30.

I doubt we'll be locked up much longer, or we'll have civil war/coup d'etat

Luckily it's insanely easy to get a very powerful gun.

.https://youtu.be/7g0kCnnTeMg
Who knew that Aussies had a sense of humour!? ;-)

[ScepticalOptomist]

Hear hear! WA is doing very nicely, don't forget we've also had to deal with cruise ships and other vessels with infected people on board. I wasn't a huge fan of McGowan before all this (mainly due to the Barry Urban debacle) but he has shown, like some other premiers, that consistancyin leadership is what is needed. Others and their flip flopping around and trying to shift the blame around hasn't done any good in their states has actually killed rather a lot of people.

All my friends in the tourism industry have said they are busier than ever, booked up months ahead and having trouble getting staff to keep up with the demand. Sandgropers are realising that they live in the best place in the world and wanting to explore it more, especially after intrastate borders were lifted. Shopkeepers unable to get stock in fast enough to keep up with demand.

As for flying, my aviation business is busier than ever.

Its this sort of parochial BS that’s killing the “Australian Spirit”. Our forefathers would be ashamed.

[benttrees]

Agreed. I heard McClown a few weeks back in the media refer to an occurrence as “unWest Australian” !!! So West Australians, apparently, have a different set of values now !

[WingNut60]

Agreed. I heard McClown a few weeks back in the media refer to an occurrence as “unWest Australian” !!! So West Australians, apparently, have a different set of values now !
You do realise that Beryl does not have carte blanche to define "Australian values", right?

[currawong]

"Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt said on Sunday morning the lack of transmission of the UK strain of COVID-19 showed there was, "very, very clear evidence that the Australian system had been tested and tested again and continues to function".

Given that Federal involvement is quite limited, that is quite a statement.

Tennis players?

On individual exemptions granted by the Department of Home Affairs, Australian Government.

As international arrivals, of course.

Blindingly obvious, probably a surprise to some...

[benttrees]

What’s your point ?

[currawong]

Derive your own conclusions from the facts presented.

Far be it from me to tell you what to think.

[benttrees]

Sorry, my question was to WingNut60.

[WingNut60]

That Western Australia has every right to decline becoming a NSW clone.

We made that point when we initially declined to join the Federation.
The feeling hasn't changed much in the intervening 120 years.

[dr dre]

Agreed. I heard McClown a few weeks back in the media refer to an occurrence as “unWest Australian” !!! So West Australians, apparently, have a different set of values now !

Parochialism has always been a tactic used by Political leaders of all stripes, a quick google search reveals every single state and territory has had the use of the term "Un-SA/NT/Qld/Tassie" etc.

I'd go a step further and say the term "Un-Australian" is equally as meaningless, because when ever someone is challenged to list these uniquely Australian values they just rattle off common standards of human decency.

[Capt Fathom]

And in those 120 years, WA has happily accepted the generosity the Commonwealth has offered!

[WingNut60]

And in those 120 years, WA has happily accepted the generosity the Commonwealth has offered!
And vice versa.....or are you suggesting that WA has not played it's part?
Give us the right to jump ship and you might be surprised by the result.

[galdian]

And vice versa.....or are you suggesting that WA has not played it's part?
Give us the right to jump ship and you might be surprised by the result.

If successful the interesting question would be whether WA Independent (or whatever you want to call it) would waste money on a defense force.

That would determine whether the Chinese are resisted or welcomed with open arms when they decide to colonise WA Independent (or whatever you want to call it) for the iron ore.

For once the cry "the world's most remote capital" will ring true as you're left to fight your own battles as you see fit.
Plus all that remoteness for re-education camps and all that desert for burying bodies - wet dreams for the current Chinese dictatorship.

[601]

Now tell me again, what is McGowan supposed to be doing wrong?

I think things would have been a little different if each state had to pick up the tab for all the measures that the Feds have poured directly to the populous.

[Transition Layer]

As I understand, this particular forum is for Australia, New Zealand and the South Pacific.

You uber-parochial Westralians can go get your own forum where you can praise McClown for the simplest of COVID strategies - one which decimates aviation by the day, and has had a huge impact on the airline workers of WA with unnecessary and irrational quarantine requirements.

He has enacted a simple plan for a state of simple people. Enough is enough.

[SOPS]

As I understand, this particular forum is for Australia, New Zealand and the South Pacific.

You uber-parochial Westralians can go get your own forum where you can praise McClown for the simplest of COVID strategies - one which decimates aviation by the day, and has had a huge impact on the airline workers of WA with unnecessary and irrational quarantine requirements.

He has enacted a simple plan for a state of simple people. Enough is enough.

Enough is enough of what? WA opens its borders and all flying in Australia goes back to normal? Is that what you are saying? Then WA is the heart of the nation.. perhaps we should move the ACT over here.

[Transition Layer]

Enough of the border decisions based on popular politics instead of real health issues.

Everyone knows there’s very little chance domestic aviation will go back to normal any time soon but with McCoward’s knee jerk policies in place, the chance is zero.

[Ragnor]

I would love to see WA have a succession McClown supreme ruler all ties to be cut with Australia. That means paying you’re own health care, unemployment, financing and rehabilitating remote communities oh don’t forget you need to defend your self you will need Army, Navy and Air Force most of those will be Australian citizens they will have to return to the mother country.
WA ppl think they could do it alone just because of a little iron ore I’d would love to see it happen. Please let’s vote it has mine.

[goodonyamate]

And vice versa.....or are you suggesting that WA has not played it's part?
Give us the right to jump ship and you might be surprised by the result.

no worries. You lose all federal funding. You lose your passport. You can’t call yourself West Australian’ because you’re not part of Australia. You have mining. Great. Other trade? Perhaps these countries you trade with will decide to ‘renegotiate’ terms. Who controls the waters off your coastline? Not Mcclown. Who controls your air rights? Not Mcclown.

All you ‘let us leave and things will be better’ morons really have no idea, and continuously prove that maybe you’re not the smartest people in the room.

[Vag277]

The arrogance and ignorance of some is sad. GST breakdown state by state 2018-19 State GST share per dollar of Total GST distribution $m VIC 98c $16,830M WA 47c $3,255M NSW 85c $18,030M SA $1.47 $6,751 M
and here for how much WA supports the rest of the country: https://www.dfat.gov.au/sites/default/files/australia-state-territory-2018-19.pdf for balance of payments data.

WA earns 36% of Australian export income but only spends 11% of the import expenditure. About half the exports go to China.. WA would potentially be better off alone. In 1933 the population voted overwhelmingly to secede. With respect to names, only WA and SA are named as part of Australia. The other mainland states seem to cling to the motherland!

[Ragnor]

McGowan land should have a long and prosperous future then. All the best.

Anyway, preliminary reports have a hotel worker and a police officer returning positives in hotel quarantine in Melbourne. Let’s hope they can control the tennis players also.

[blubak]

McGowan land should have a long and prosperous future then. All the best.

Anyway, preliminary reports have a hotel worker and a police officer returning positives in hotel quarantine in Melbourne. Let’s hope they can control the tennis players also.
5 people in total now infected from the tennis charter flights,i would have thought these people would be a really low risk group considering the testing regime etc they go through.
I know there are plenty on here saying borders should be open & more people allowed back into the country but of the people outside our borders,how many have it & how many are going to spread it?
Quarantine is the only way to control it & there are limits on every service that can be provided.

[WingNut60]

no worries. You lose all federal funding. You lose your passport. You can’t call yourself West Australian’ because you’re not part of Australia. You have mining. Great. Other trade? Perhaps these countries you trade with will decide to ‘renegotiate’ terms. Who controls the waters off your coastline? Not Mcclown. Who controls your air rights? Not Mcclown.

All you ‘let us leave and things will be better’ morons really have no idea, and continuously prove that maybe you’re not the smartest people in the room.
No worries to you too. You lose all West Australian revenue. We buy a printing press and make our own passports. We can proudly call ourselves "West Australian’ or anything else we like.
We have mining. Other trade? (2019 - WA produced 58% of Australia's wheat exports, >60% of LNG exports).
Domestic banana production is adequate for WA market. You can keep yours.
Perhaps those countries we trade with will agree to ‘renegotiate’ improved terms.
We get to control the waters off our coastline and actually allocate some resources to this side of the continent.
And yes, we get to control our air rights - funded by over-flight charges paid by "eastern Australians" heading for Europe.

Then let's see how the five remaining states establish equitable voting rights in the senate.
You know, majority of the people in the majority of the states. Or maybe you don't.
Or set yourselves up as a US style republic - 1st president Beryl. Replace the Cook statue at Kurnell with one of Beryl and Daryl.
I'd give it twenty years before inter-state rivalry turned into civil war.

[WingNut60]

Son: Please daddy... what's the other side of the Blue Mountains.

Father : We don't talk about that son. It's too horrible.
Just a wasteland full of old mining excavations and unsophisticated barbarians.
(Hushed voice) - They don't even have leagues clubs

[Green.Dot]

A few arrogant twats on here.

If and when China come for a “visit” I know where there will be heading. You laugh, but...

What will you do? Fend them off with 30 clapped out F100s or come back sucking up to Mamma’s teat? By then Mum might have just had enough.

[WingNut60]

A few arrogant twats on here.

If and when China come for a “visit” I know where there will be heading. You laugh, but...

What will you do? Fend them off with 30 clapped out F100s or come back sucking up to Mamma’s teat? By then Mum might have just had enough.
Well there we can agree.
I can't see the Chinese wanting anything from the "remaining states".
Not unless they're into leagues clubs and female impersonators.

[WingNut60]

A few arrogant twats on here.
.
Hmmmm...lives in HGK.
Calls people twats.

Which passport do you use up there? The Aussie one or your Pommie one?
How's CX treating you?

[Green.Dot]

You will need more bait ya Clown.

[galdian]

The arrogance and ignorance of some is sad. GST breakdown state by state 2018-19 State GST share per dollar of Total GST distribution $m VIC 98c $16,830M WA 47c $3,255M NSW 85c $18,030M SA $1.47 $6,751 M
and here for how much WA supports the rest of the country: https://www.dfat.gov.au/sites/default/files/australia-state-territory-2018-19.pdf for balance of payments data.

WA earns 36% of Australian export income but only spends 11% of the import expenditure. About half the exports go to China.. WA would potentially be better off alone. In 1933 the population voted overwhelmingly to secede. With respect to names, only WA and SA are named as part of Australia. The other mainland states seem to cling to the motherland!

Vag when the Chinese colonise WA Independant (or whatever you wish to call it) they won't be buying the iron ore any more, it will be appropriated, any wealth generated will be directed to the CCP under the leadership of the Glorious Leader Xi Jinpin and after suitable re-education the colony will be provided by the CCP with enough to survive but little more. You of course will be grateful to Xi Jinpin for his abounding generosity.

Think I read HK bureaucrats have 1 month in which to pledge allegiance - not to Hong Kong but the Chinese Communist Party.
Hope WA residents note the pledge - may need to use it in the not too distant future! ;)

[Global Aviator]

WA has its own international Airforce, plenty Singaporean planes, after all don’t they own Pearce now?

[JJ 789]

As a West Australian (I hate even saying that as we are one country), I feel like that I am one of the few that aren't blinded by McGowan and his cult following. He's an embarrassment to the country and is showing that he really has no idea how to handle this crisis. Making WA a fortress is his only tool. So many people I've spoken to (friends, family etc) worship him like he's a god. Makes me feel like maybe I'm totally missing something. But it's good to see outsiders from other states see exactly how useless he is.
I've sent emails to my local Labor MP asking what the plan going forward is, how long can they keep shutting us off from the rest of the country for. Nothing... Won't return my calls. Blocked me from all social media for asking general questions.
Feels like WA has become a dictatorship in a sense...

[Oriana]

The only thing more annoying than Queensland exceptionalism, is WA exceptionalism.

What will you do when you end up a quarry?

[Kickstarter]

tomorrows headline ...

China offers Fiji etc. AUD$100 billion loan(which they'll never ever repay), then few Chinese fighter jets will land at NAN & few Chinese aircraft carriers/destroyers will "visit" Suva & Lautoka ports, "permanently".

[Chronic Snoozer]

As a WA lurker, I cringe when I read this thread. Rednecks both sides of the border. Not everyone wants to secede and I'm wary of the Dragon. Yes WA does well but the wealth is for all Australians to benefit from. We can't drink all the beer and wine ourselves, it just wouldn't be healthy.

[Chronic Snoozer]

As a West Australian (I hate even saying that as we are one country), I feel like that I am one of the few that aren't blinded by McGowan and his cult following. He's an embarrassment to the country and is showing that he really has no idea how to handle this crisis. Making WA a fortress is his only tool. So many people I've spoken to (friends, family etc) worship him like he's a god. Makes me feel like maybe I'm totally missing something. But it's good to see outsiders from other states see exactly how useless he is.
I've sent emails to my local labour MP asking what the plan going forward is, how long can they keep shutting us off from the rest of the country for. Nothing... Won't return my calls. Blocked me from all social media for asking general questions.
Feels like WA has become a dictatorship in a sense...

McGowan has painted himself into a corner with this approach. It is very difficult now to start risk managing when you've been risk avoiding all this time. One slip up and he will get hurt at the polls - not fatally but hurt all the same. That to me points to more a political framework for dealing with the pandemic than a health and safety one. Very tough for the opposition to attack.

[currawong]

Interesting pattern emerging.

Those most satisfied with the measures taken by any particular state are those resident.

Those least satisfied are those residing elsewhere.

Seems to extend internationally...

[jrfsp]

In other news, looks like international wont happen until 2022...pretty much as expected, but could be even longer

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/widespread-overseas-travel-unlikely-for-australians-in-2021/news-story/3d84c7bd3dff15b132e53ebb7e014e7c

[dr dre]

I’ll say one thing about the WA hard border policy, it ensured mining companies went back to their previous shifts after the swing time was doubled at the start of the pandemic, to limit movement, (ie back to two weeks on instead of 4). This led to a return of intrastate flying to previous levels, whilst at the expense of interstate flying, so I guess some people win, some lose. If a looser border was enacted then would mining companies increase their swing time again, leading to a decrease in intrastate flying? Who knows, they’re the ones who really run the state.

Despite most of the anger here directed at one state leader truth is most states are taking a hard line when community transmission occurs (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-16/border-restrictions-covid-qld-nsw-vic-sa-tas-act-wa-explained/13063796), changing borders, isolation requirements, testing requirements, hot spots, points of entry requirements on an hourly basis sometimes. This pretty much stuffs up forward planning for travel from any state to another.

There has been one person pretty much absent in this debate however. If, like so many people here want, we are meant to act like one country, where is the leader of that country? MIA. Too afraid to make hard choices as it might lose him his 2 seat majority.

I’m glad they stepped up the start of the vaccine program, although it would be better to ensure the required numbers are immunised well before the original end of October. Another thing he can show some leadership on is federal control of quarantine away from cities.

It doesn’t take much to show some leadership Scotty.....

[currawong]

Technically, international quarantine is a federal responsibility.

It was made so shortly after the Spanish Flu epidemic, in order to settle disputes and inconsistencies between the states regarding, you guessed it, borders and quarantine.

[dr dre]

Technically, international quarantine is a federal responsibility.

It was made so shortly after the Spanish Flu epidemic, in order to settle disputes and inconsistencies between the states regarding, you guessed it, borders and quarantine.

That was actually made so about 20 years BEFORE the 1918 flu:51. Legislative powers of the ParliamentThe (Federal) Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:

(ix) quarantine;

[Ragnor]

tomorrows headline ...

China offers Fiji etc. AUD$100 billion loan(which they'll never ever repay), then few Chinese fighter jets will land at NAN & few Chinese aircraft carriers/destroyers will "visit" Suva & Lautoka ports, "permanently".

I am pretty sure this is already happening, have you not seen all the infrastructure being built in FiJi already.

[Dannyboy39]

In other news, looks like international wont happen until 2022...pretty much as expected, but could be even longer

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/widespread-overseas-travel-unlikely-for-australians-in-2021/news-story/3d84c7bd3dff15b132e53ebb7e014e7c
With supposed herd immunity achieved by October? I guess he’s just remaining conservative and narrowing expectations, but it’s hard to look at this article without incredulity.

[777Nine]

The arrogance and ignorance of some is sad. GST breakdown state by state 2018-19 State GST share per dollar of Total GST distribution $m VIC 98c $16,830M WA 47c $3,255M NSW 85c $18,030M SA $1.47 $6,751 M
and here for how much WA supports the rest of the country: https://www.dfat.gov.au/sites/default/files/australia-state-territory-2018-19.pdf for balance of payments data.

WA earns 36% of Australian export income but only spends 11% of the import expenditure. About half the exports go to China.. WA would potentially be better off alone. In 1933 the population voted overwhelmingly to secede. With respect to names, only WA and SA are named as part of Australia. The other mainland states seem to cling to the motherland!

I hope that happens and then they can shut their borders off for good. Oh and they can take Clive Palmer as well :)

[neville_nobody]

WA would potentially be better off alone. In 1933 the population voted overwhelmingly to secede. With respect to names, only WA and SA are named as part of Australia. The other mainland states seem to cling to the motherland!

So how do feel about conscription for all WA children?

Seceding would be the biggest own goal in the history of the world.

[currawong]

That was actually made so about 20 years BEFORE the 1918 flu:51. Legislative powers of the ParliamentThe (Federal) Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:

(ix) quarantine;

Yes and no.:)

"Under section 51(ix) of the Constitution, the Commonwealth has power over the states regarding quarantine. Where state and Commonwealth laws are inconsistent, the Commonwealth law prevails.(10) However, this principle proved less clear-cut than its drafters probably intended"

"Before an amendment to the Act in 1912 the Commonwealth did not have the power to act in response to a number of diseases, such as a measles epidemic aboard a ship. The states had the power, but no resources, to take quarantine measures"

"In 1920 the Act was amended to address these constitutional and administrative problems. Section 2A(3) was inserted to give the Commonwealth power to override state legislation by proclamation in an emergency."

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp0405/05rp03

[Ragnor]

I’m not a lawyer, does that mean the commonwealth can override the states, but choose not to?

[Lookleft]

Have a look at the link Ragnor. It does not override the States ability to close its borders and apply restriction in response to a public health threat. It does explain why the States have no authority over which vaccines are selected and how it is distributed as an example.

[Transition Layer]

It does explain why the States have no authority over which vaccines are selected and how it is distributed as an example.
Someone better tell McClown and his offsider Cook. He thinks he can call the shots on that too. Maybe he should pay for it then!

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/covid-19-vaccine-not-compulsory-in-wa-as-500-000-to-receive-jab-in-february-20210113-p56tsv.html

[dr dre]

Someone better tell McClown and his offsider Cook. He thinks he can call the shots on that too. Maybe he should pay for it then!



Actually no, the federal government selected and bought the vaccine supply and distributed to the states proportioned by population who are responsible for health.

So according to all applicable legislation, division of powers and the National Covid Vaccine Policy once the WA government get the vaccine they are the ones calling the shots in regards to locations, staff, etc.

And having at look at their plans it’s no different from any other state in terms of priority.

I realise you don’t like the WA Government’s border approach but you don’t have to blow a gasket every time they’re mentioned in the press, otherwise you’re going to have an unhappy life.

[Bodie1]

dr dre, are you in hotel isolation? Have you been there for 10 months?

[Transition Layer]

I realise you don’t like the WA Government’s border approach but you don’t have to blow a gasket every time they’re mentioned in the press, otherwise you’re going to have an unhappy life.


You’re dead right. McGowan will probably ride this popularity ground swell forever and I’m going to have to live with his smug face on TV for the rest of my unhappy life!

Please make it stop! :hmm:

[WingNut60]

You muppet, you do realise there's another way or two to Europe? I bet you drive a HSV ute right?
Not if you aspire to non-stop, there isn't.

And I bet you drive a Hyundai Ioniq, right?
Or perhaps, don't have a licence yet?

[Bodie1]

Not if you aspire to non-stop, there isn't.

I'd make 5 stops to bypass your bogan mecca.

Nissan Navarra, although, the k's I'm doing at the moment an i30 would do me nicely, made from steel mined from your cesspit.

[currawong]

Mystery to me why people that harbour such a dislike for any particular locality are so concerned when they cannot go there....

:rolleyes:

[WingNut60]

mystery to me why people that harbour such a dislike for any particular locality are so concerned when they cannot go there....

:rolleyes:
👍👍👍 .

[WingNut60]

Treasurer Josh Frydenberg rules out making changes to unwind GST deal with WA

Looks like Beryl lost another round

[Fonz121]

With the treasurer saying jobkeeper won’t be extended, what assistance can those of us who are employed but not getting a wage expect to receive?

I assume we won’t be eligible for Jobseeker due to the fact that we apparently have jobs. Is there anything at all we’ll be able to access (genuine question)?

Its pretty poor form from the LNP. If you haven’t already, may I suggest a quick email to your local federal member.

[galdian]

Mystery to me why people that harbour such a dislike for any particular locality are so concerned when they cannot go there....

:rolleyes:

It's not that, I'm trying to look at how individual leaders have done things rather than political labelling, as the whole CV19 is a moving target personally I think some have handled it better than others.

NSW and Vic having screwed up at the start have both been forced to develop reasonable contract tracing to deal with inevitable outbreaks when people start moving around.

McGowan has preached eradication, if they have instituted contract tracing it's unclear to what extent and it's never been tested in anger, ongoing response is to hide under the bedcovers and operate as a hostage state.

I can see how I'd be looking to come into the state election campaign as opposition - "if you never want to see your east coast grandkiddies ever again that's your choice vote McGowan, if you think that's not really the way to live life better think of the other bloke".
Nuanced of course and local issues to ask about the future/past failures raised ie standard political stuff but do NOT not allow the messiahic "I saved you you must vote for me" crap that Queen P was allowed to run with unhindered by a piss weak clueless opposition in QLD.

[dr dre]

I can see how I'd be looking to come into the state election campaign as opposition - "if you never want to see your east coast grandkiddies ever again that's your choice vote McGowan, if you think that's not really the way to live life better think of the other bloke"

Actually the “other bloke” (opposition leader Zak Kirkup) is in agreement now with McGowan on border closures. He “fully supported and endorsed” the decision to apply a hard border to Qld.

It’s a moot point, he’s unlikely to retain his seat anyway at the election (holds it on a 0.7% margin) and the Libs are going to be wiped out in March.

[Maggie Island]

McGowan holds the highest approval rating of any modern politician in Australia, the March election is effectively a formality. If I were the WA Libs I’d be more concerned about the following election.

If I were McGowan I’d be spending more time talking to federal Libs to try to wheel and deal some programs that would benefit both parties.

[Kickstarter]

heard a rumour that China is quietly offering very cheap loans in the Pacific. As many billions as these island nations want (that they'll never ever be able to repay).

We better all start learning mandarin.

[rattman]

heard a rumour that China is quietly offering very cheap loans in the Pacific. As many billions as these island nations want (that they'll never ever be able to repay).

They have been doing world wide for years. Mainly concentrating in africa but have been doing it in the pacific as well. Just not to same scale of africa

[getaway]

They have been doing world wide for years. Mainly concentrating in africa but have been doing it in the pacific as well. Just not to same scale of africa
wait for it. If Pacific Island nations don't get tourists soon, China will be in like flynn.

[Paragraph377]

With the treasurer saying jobkeeper won’t be extended, what assistance can those of us who are employed but not getting a wage expect to receive?

I assume we won’t be eligible for Jobseeker due to the fact that we apparently have jobs. Is there anything at all we’ll be able to access (genuine question)?

Its pretty poor form from the LNP. If you haven’t already, may I suggest a quick email to your local federal member.

Deputy PM Michael McCormack reckons there are heaps of fruit picking jobs up for grabs. You can even earn $3,000 per week, make lots of friends, enjoy an adventure. Wow, that is an amazing opportunity. I wonder if the Ministers family and friends have embarked on this lucrative opportunity?

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.news.com.au/finance/work/careers/mccormack-tells-jobless-to-turn-off-netflix-go-bush-for-work/news-story/98b00343eb7faac19d85134def1ae737

I guess it is just fortunate that no crisis that we face ever disadvantages our Politicians. They still collect a ludicrous salary, they have their Superannuation PROTECTED under legislation, they don’t lose their businesses and they don’t have to pay for their own utilities, offices, vehicle etc. Complete scum.

[getaway]

start learning the words to this song for your future "masters"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DqvweTYTI0Monty Python - I Like Chinese

[601]

the March election is effectively a formality.
How may time have we heard that before!!

[Ragnor]

WA is a lost cause McClown will do McClown things write off seeing loved ones etc for at least another two months.

Queen P has been very quiet on this front what’s her next move keep it shut or open up before end of the month maybe 1st Feb?

JQ are standing crews down in ML and SY base for Feb SY has lost 70% of flying. Maybe Miss Jayne is going to strike on AJ and take her frequent flyers back.

[Turnleft080]

Fantastic game of cricket at the Gabba, oh Mr Mclown so sorry you missed out on your test match due to your East German philosophy.

[dr dre]

Fantastic game of cricket at the Gabba, oh Mr Mclown so sorry you missed out on your test match due to your East German philosophy.

Only 5,000 people attended the Gabba for the final day, 12% of capacity, you really think they’d be disappointed on not hosting an event that would barely be bringing in any revenue? I think the real money in sports is made in TV rights, you could host the Test match in Birdsville, as long as enough watched the broadcast it’d be profitable.

[Foxxster]

heard a rumour that China is quietly offering very cheap loans in the Pacific. As many billions as these island nations want (that they'll never ever be able to repay).

We better all start learning mandarin.

As others have said, this is old news. Look up China Vanuatu or China Fiji and perhaps more worryingly China PNG. Last month, Papua New Guinea signed a memorandum of understanding to build a $200 million "comprehensive multi-functional fishery industrial park" on Daru Island. Google Daru. There isn't much there, including fish.

As Jeff Wall, a long time adviser to the PNG Government, wrote in the Australian Strategic Policy Institute's publication The Strategist this week, "the town of Daru is the closest PNG community to Australia. Even though it is around 200 kilometres from the Australian mainland, it is very close to the islands of the Torres Strait that are within our northern border."

so, in reality, they will build a massive wharf complex, big enough to take very large warships.. and perhaps a few fishing boats which will hover around sensitive Australian military facilities and have lots of strange aerials on them. They may even build an airport, you know to fly those non existent fish out back to China .

[Foxxster]

I made a comment before about what would happen when the virus mutates to a variant that renders the current vaccines useless or close to it.

if anyone thinks this will all end in 6 or 9 months when a significant portion of the world population is vaccinated...well..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9163677/Coronavirus-UK-Scientists-start-developing-new-Covid-vaccines-cope-variants.html#comments

[dr dre]

I made a comment before about what would happen when the virus mutates to a variant that renders the current vaccines useless or close to it.

if anyone thinks this will all end in 6 or 9 months when a significant portion of the world population is vaccinated...well..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9163677/Coronavirus-UK-Scientists-start-developing-new-Covid-vaccines-cope-variants.html#comments

Stop reading too much Daily Mail or you’ll fearmonger yourself into a frenzy.

COVID mutates slower than the flu.
COVID strains are more genetically similar than the various flu strains are.
Mutations don’t necessarily render current vaccines useless.
Getting immunised against basic SARS-COV-2 will provide a level of protection against all strains, some more so than others.

Vaccines can be targeted to new strains of the virus. Every year scientists use forecasted predictions to choose which 4 influenza strains should be included in that year’s flu shot.

When you get your yearly flu shot in autumn does it bother you that scientists are already trying to work and predict what strains should be in the vaccine for the following season? Because that’s essentially what the article you posted is talking about if you strip away the usual Daily Mail tabloid hyperbole.

Fact check: COVID-19 and influenza vaccines too different to be directly compared (https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-covid-influenza-vaccines/fact-check-covid-19-and-influenza-vaccines-too-different-to-be-directly-compared-idUSKBN28I2UE)

[Ragnor]

Seeing domestic borders will remain closed to each other in various ways slowly killing off domestic flying. How will QF handle what seems an indefinite grounding of its international pilots and aircraft? JQ has a different EBA QF have a RIN which would most certainly send the group broke if done.

[wheels_down]

I think the shift will now start to move toward the ongoing financial viability of the QF group to continue operations. A injection from somewhere will be needed before the year is out, and sadly much debt will be carried beyond this. Much more than originally planned.

You can see why Virgin is keeping its operation bare bones and holding off signing new contracts with vendors at the moment.

I don’t think laying off more workers is yet the answer. They will need the revenue and scale when this thing drops off to repay all this debt. They need the employees. Shrinking the operation isn’t the answer.

I’d be more concerned around 787 Long Haul Low Cost vanishing compared to anything else.

[Ragnor]

I'm not concerned about the LCC 787 going. That was always going to happen regardless of Covid-19.

[jrfsp]

I think the A321s would have replaced that 787s probably anyway....by the looks of it the A321 XLR should just about have the range for all of Asia, if from OOL or CNS which tends to happen with north Asian routes now anyway. I cant see HNL coming back.

[wheels_down]

I guess it’s a more an issue with, they own these 788s and they can’t sell them for what they want. Was window before all this started to offload 3.

Norwegian has blown that plan by flooding the market with them.

However they might need them now to borrow against them.

[jrfsp]

Well indeed, i dont think the 787-8s would have great re sale value either, only option would be to transfer to QF to replace 330s on lease, but even that wouldn't be a cheap option, and on short - medium routes the A330s are actually able to hold their own fuel wise and would probably have less capacity than the 332s

[thisishardtochoose]

Fantastic game of cricket at the Gabba, oh Mr Mclown so sorry you missed out on your test match due to your East German philosophy.

If thats why you think the test match didn't happen in Perth then I have a bridge to sell you, btw absolute gem of a game though

[Sunfish]

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/its-killing-younger-people-new-covid-strain-reportedly-emerging-within-brazilian-amazon

Its killing younger people. Still want to open the borders dickheads?

[SOPS]

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/its-killing-younger-people-new-covid-strain-reportedly-emerging-within-brazilian-amazon

Its killing younger people. Still want to open the borders dickheads?

It only kills us boomers. The young ones are all ok to go.. open the borders and let it rip. That is the case is it not, Sunny??

[ScepticalOptomist]

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/its-killing-younger-people-new-covid-strain-reportedly-emerging-within-brazilian-amazon

Its killing younger people. Still want to open the borders dickheads?

We sure do.

[Ragnor]

With the WA election getting momentum, WAxit party is gaining a little momentum. Do WA residents think this would be a good thing and would vote for CP old throw a ways?

[chookcooker]

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/its-killing-younger-people-new-covid-strain-reportedly-emerging-within-brazilian-amazon

Its killing younger people. Still want to open the borders dickheads?

you’ll be fine with your $1000 cash in your bumbag and all ya numpty.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

The single biggest current threat to that position is for some virulent, ****-brained expeditioner to fly in and head straight to a night out at six of our (open, and unrestricted) night-spots.
Why would someone want to go to ALL of WA's night spots?

[WingNut60]

Why would someone want to go to ALL of WA's night spots?
Very drole. But the answer is obvious.................primarily because they're ****e-brains from the eastern states, and we don't have hundreds and hundreds of leagues clubs to go to.
And our bowling clubs (not bowlos, never bowlos) are not staffed with sufficient drag queens to keep the ****e-brains happy..

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

....and we don't have hundreds and hundreds of leagues clubs go to.
That explains the angst....Frustration!

And our bowling clubs (not bowlos, never bowlos) are not staffed with sufficient drag queens to keep the ****e-brains happy..
Then you need to employ more! Keep that vibrant economy bustling along! If you don't have a choice of leagues clubs, at least get the bowling clubs up to scratch!

[jrfsp]

Gladys today has reportedly said she wants Pacific / NZ bubble to start......not sure if she got the memo that its actually her state holding up proceedings.....and that they have their own governments that make those decisions, oh wait NZ has a labour gov....

[PoppaJo]

Well indeed, i dont think the 787-8s would have great re sale value either, only option would be to transfer to QF to replace 330s on lease, but even that wouldn't be a cheap option, and on short - medium routes the A330s are actually able to hold their own fuel wise and would probably have less capacity than the 332s
78s are all heading to the Alice. Starting this week I believe, unless engine tests disagree.

Airshow is November, can’t sit down at the farm forever. However remains to be seen how much foreign stuff even comes down this year.

[michigan j]

Gladys today has reportedly said she wants Pacific / NZ bubble to start......not sure if she got the memo that its actually her state holding up proceedings..

How is NSW holding this up?

[Ragnor]

This thread needs to be renamed “all borders to remain closed”

[jrfsp]

How is NSW holding this up?

Because of the recent cases of community transmission. There will be no bubbles until we have a sustained period of no community transmission.

[dr dre]

With the WA election getting momentum, WAxit party is gaining a little momentum. Do WA residents think this would be a good thing and would vote for CP old throw a ways?

No, it’s a micro party being given some media coverage, not momentum. They’ll have as much as a contribution to Australian Politics as the Motoring Enthusiasts Party.

[michigan j]

If you were in Greater Sydney (which typically includes Wollongong, the Central Coast and the Blue Mountains) any time on or after December 21, you cannot enter the ACT, South Australia, Western Australia or Victoria. You are also banned from Queensland (https://www.covid19.qld.gov.au/government-actions/border-closing), but only if you were in the Greater Sydney hotspot during the previous 14 days.

Tasmania, meanwhile, rates Sydney and Wollongong only as “medium risk”, so people who have visited these areas can enter the island state but must quarantine for 14 days. Tasmania has no restrictions on arrivals from the Central Coast or Blue Mountains.

Victorians can still travel to NSW, the ACT, the Northern Territory, SA and Queensland, but not WA (https://www.wa.gov.au/government/announcements/wa-hard-border-returns-victoria-tonight).

Queensland has asked everyone who has recently been in Victoria to get tested, and barred them from visiting health facilities and aged-care or disability homes.

Tasmania allows anyone in from Victoria unless they have visited particular high-risk venues (https://www.coronavirus.tas.gov.au/travellers-and-visitors/coming-to-tasmania/travel-alert) (although when I checked, Victoria’s own list (https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/case-locations-and-outbreaks) of “close contact” exposure sites was more up-to-date).

[Ragnor]

Don't forget SA, by their accord SY is still running rampart with he virus, earliest they expect to consider opening is Feb 2nd.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Because of the recent cases of community transmission. There will be no bubbles until we have a sustained period of no community transmission.

Then you can pretty much forget about it at least until the vaccination program’s complete, because as long as we have people coming into the country from COVID-ridden places elsewhere, there will be occasional outbreaks into the community.

I wonder what happened to the original aim of ‘suppression’, which seems to have been arbitrarily changed to ‘elimination’ by some?
What’s the point of a federally-agreed definition of a hotspot, if the states just impose their own definitions, seemingly at random?
Why have a closed border between two places that both have very low rates of infection? It just means the low risk of transmission is on one side of an invisible line on the ground and not the other - doesn’t reduce the overall risk to the Australian population, which is what this should really be about, rather than making individual state governments look good.

I’m all for lockdowns &/or border closures where they make sense, but can’t see how some of what’s going on really helps in the big scheme of things.

[jrfsp]

Then you can pretty much forget about it at least until the vaccination program’s complete, because as long as we have people coming into the country from COVID-ridden places elsewhere, there will be occasional outbreaks into the community.

I wonder what happened to the original aim of ‘suppression’, which seems to have been arbitrarily changed to ‘elimination’ by some?
What’s the point of a federally-agreed definition of a hotspot, if the states just impose their own definitions, seemingly at random?
Why have a closed border between two places that both have very low rates of infection? It just means the low risk of transmission is on one side of an invisible line on the ground and not the other - doesn’t reduce the overall risk to the Australian population, which is what this should really be about, rather than making individual state governments look good.

I’m all for lockdowns &/or border closures where they make sense, but can’t see how some of what’s going on really helps in the big scheme of things.

My point is, we cant lecture to other counties about a bubble when they have chosen elimination and we have chosen suppression. And by elimination i'm talking about community elimination. NZ has the same HQ system but seems to have far less issues with outbreaks.... albeit far less people are moving through their system

And it seems (rightly or wrongly) that the general public is on board with the idea of no community transmission (state election results)

[Dannyboy39]

Elimination is never going to happen, unless that TV advert of the huge border walls across state is going to happen. It is so endemic in the population globally already.

[Dannyboy39]

I guess it’s a more an issue with, they own these 788s and they can’t sell them for what they want. Was window before all this started to offload 3.

Norwegian has blown that plan by flooding the market with them.

However they might need them now to borrow against them.
There is a very limited SLB market for widebodies right now (there was before the pandemic), so airlines are going to in for an awakening to find out what they’re going to go for.

[Chris2303]

Gladys today has reportedly said she wants Pacific / NZ bubble to start......not sure if she got the memo that its actually her state holding up proceedings.....and that they have their own governments that make those decisions, oh wait NZ has a labour gov....

Let's just forget that the vast majority on NZers do NOT want an open border for some considerable time. I, for one, would be happier if we had no arrivals whatsoever.

[Ragnor]

It crazy how divisive the population is on this, one mob wants to live under a rock for the next few yrs because they’re so scared and most likely believe every little media beat up they read. The others just want to continue to live (that’s me) in a modified way as normal as possible to 2019.

Aus and NZ will be vaccinated by yrs end do NZ still not want anyone in their country? It has to end at some point and we continue to live. All well and good to not be affected by this now, but there are 100s of 1000s ppl that are what do they do for employment or to see their family etc!

UK have been vaccinating since December is it to early to tell if it is working or not? Italy want it so bad they’re looking at suing Pfizer due to not giving it to them.

[blubak]

Let's just forget that the vast majority on NZers do NOT want an open border for some considerable time. I, for one, would be happier if we had no arrivals whatsoever.
I guess u are a kiwi?
I can understand your feelings about arrivals,we in victoria had a very hard time after the virus went rampant after the govt stuffed up(i dont dispute their f up for 1 moment) however they have turned it around & its because we followed the rules.
Most of us living in vic are i would say very fearful of a 3rd wave & that is why rightly or wrongly we dont look favourably on arrivals or borders being left open when risks are possible.
I know many will disagree with these sentiments & many will think we are fools believing govt spin however we do not have a lot of choice & right now we love our freedom.

[dr dre]

UK have been vaccinating since December is it to early to tell if it is working or not?

An article on the early results here (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55734257)

Israel has had the most vaccinated, after two weeks the immunised population has had a 1/3rd decline in infections compared to the non immunised group. The effect of the vaccine on lowering infection rates will become stronger after the second dose.

The effect of the vaccine on reducing serious illness, death and the strain on the health system in Israel, which is the real purpose of the vaccine, should start to be seen by the end of the week according to the article. If the trial results are replicated in real life then it should have a significant effect.

[wheels_down]

What’s the plan when Canberra turns the tap off in 8 weeks? If Jetstar want to stand down it’s Sydney or Melbourne base again in April, May, June, the consequences are quite dire for all these workers.

If Canberra want to cut the government assistance to zero, fair enough, it’s had its run, however push all foreign arrivals to inland to prevent any spread around the states, to keep the domestic tourism alive.

The focus for the next half needs to be on keeping domestic tourism and travel alive. Less talk about international let’s try and protect and look after our own backyard for the next year.

I am seeing a lot of talk around International bubbles and so forth, we seem to have enough trouble keeping our states open let alone abroad.

[Dannyboy39]

Let's just forget that the vast majority on NZers do NOT want an open border for some considerable time. I, for one, would be happier if we had no arrivals whatsoever.
How often is any sort of migration a vote winner? Many people would choose to keep borders closed forever and ever.

[Ragnor]

What’s the plan when Canberra turns the tap off in 8 weeks? If Jetstar want to stand down it’s Sydney or Melbourne base again in April, May, June, the consequences are quite dire for all these workers.

Well if it’s dire to domestic ML and SY based pilots, just imagine what it is like for a QF380 skip about to go less than JK. Is there a word worse than dire for international pilots?!

[currawong]

On suppression vs elimination.

It has pretty much taken an elimination approach to achieve suppression.

Hard to control, but not impossible.

Certainly harder than anticipated a year ago, when it was thought a two week shutdown would beat it.

Pity it didn't.

[Buster Hyman]

This thread needs to be renamed “all borders to remain closed”
Nah, with all these State Clowns controlling borders, it really just depends on what time you’re looking at the thread!

[Angle of Attack]

No disrespect to WA but quoting export volumes vs import volumes etc etc, doesn’t cut it. WA produces 15% of the National GDP. The point is in the developed states there is much more to the economy than digging crap out of the ground.WA would be invaded by Australia within weeks of secession basically to stop them getting invaded by anyone else. Don’t get me wrong I lived in WA in a past life and I know how you feel, but your wrong, your basically a mine with nothing else and you need to live elsewhere to realise it. I know it makes you feel good to believe your better, but unfortunately your not, the vast swathe of services come from the Commonwealth, not your state. I’m not saying any Eastern state is better either, I’m one of these rare types that is actually Australian, the whole point that we have become wealthy is unity, not stupid Trumpism division.

But if you really want to break it off go ahead, it would actually be comical watching that debacle!

[Potsie Weber]

No disrespect to WA but quoting export volumes vs import volumes etc etc, doesn’t cut it. WA produces 15% of the National GDP. The point is in the developed states there is much more to the economy than digging crap out of the ground.WA would be invaded by Australia within weeks of secession basically to stop them getting invaded by anyone else. Don’t get me wrong I lived in WA in a past life and I know how you feel, but your wrong, your basically a mine with nothing else and you need to live elsewhere to realise it. I know it makes you feel good to believe your better, but unfortunately your not, the vast swathe of services come from the Commonwealth, not your state. I’m not saying any Eastern state is better either, I’m one of these rare types that is actually Australian, the whole point that we have become wealthy is unity, not stupid Trumpism division.

But if you really want to break it off go ahead, it would actually be comical watching that debacle!

In the developed states, do they teach the difference between your and you’re?

[McLimit]

The effect of the vaccine on reducing serious illness, death and the strain on the health system in Israel, which is the real purpose of the vaccine, should start to be seen by the end of the week according to the article. If the trial results are replicated in real life then it should have a significant effect.

The vaccine is only 'reducing serious illness, death and strain on the health system?'

The vaccine doesn't eliminate the virus?

So, the State/s in Australia that have stated their policy is virus elimination or haven't stated that is their policy but it really is, WILL NEVER, EVER open their borders??

If that is the case, if I were NSW (for they appear to be the only State in Australia behaving rationally), at commencement of immunisation I would immediately close borders to all Australian States that are persuing the 'eliminate' policy. I would then commence negotiations with every vaccinated country and territory in the rest of the world for a resumption of travel and all that goes along with it. Trade, Tourism, Business, Family Reunion, Sporting Events, Conventions..............LIFE................

[WingNut60]

No disrespect to WA but quoting export volumes vs import volumes etc etc, doesn’t cut it. WA produces 15% of the National GDP. The point is in the developed states there is much more to the economy than digging crap out of the ground.WA would be invaded by Australia within weeks of secession basically to stop them getting invaded by anyone else. Don’t get me wrong I lived in WA in a past life and I know how you feel, but your wrong, your basically a mine with nothing else and you need to live elsewhere to realise it. I know it makes you feel good to believe your better, but unfortunately your not, the vast swathe of services come from the Commonwealth, not your state. I’m not saying any Eastern state is better either, I’m one of these rare types that is actually Australian, the whole point that we have become wealthy is unity, not stupid Trumpism division.

But if you really want to break it off go ahead, it would actually be comical watching that debacle!
15% of GDP from 10% of the population.
Hardly enough that. Poor effort indeed.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/707x321/dddddddddd_ccb844acde8ad4ba5d038675d63d98a0519dad3a.jpg

[Angle of Attack]

Thanks Potsie,

You have basically emulated the whole WA thing in one post, a simple grammatical error becomes a big deal over there, don’t worry I get it, I know how it is. I’m not a hater against WA, at all FFS I lived there for quite a few years, but I felt the sense of us and them when I lived there 20 years ago.
But lets be honest, WA would be pilfered within weeks if any secession occurred, Get over it you REQUIRE Australia to survive, that’s the simple of it, also the other states provide 85% of GDP would tend to indicate you don’t have a real economy apart from digging **** out of the ground. Over here we actually make money by commerce, a foreign subject over there, in fact NSW commerce contributes more GDP than the entire WA. I know WA does have commerce, but last financial year it was about 0.2% of GDP. You suckers are stuck to the real engine of the economy while making these insane assertions that your saving the country...Oh yeah sounds like McGowen...

[Angle of Attack]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1570x1159/8d325528_5481_4142_9820_92ac30c0e90c_c2f949b0e015ca2ff24ef7d 3f5a99b34d3846392.jpeg

[Angle of Attack]

Wing nut,
now your going on GDP per Capita? Give me a break, that has nothing to do with it
What has something to do with it is WA is 15% of the entire economy, basically a mid tiered minnow,
We lead and McGowan cowers, basically he’s an idiot let’s be frank. You people think WA’s economy is
so important and I get that, when you live in an isolated place you actually believe that and it’s not your fault.

live the dream!

[WingNut60]

And you just can't see that it's exactly that patronising BS that infuses every West Australian with a burning desire to go it alone.

[dr dre]

And you just can't see that it's exactly that patronising BS that infuses every West Australian with a burning desire to go it alone.

C’mon wingnut60, you know the amount of West Aussies with a “burning” desire to “go it alone” is minuscule. I know 28% wanted secession on an opinion poll, but there’s a big difference between saying “ummmm yeah secession doesn’t sound that bad” when asked by an opinion pollster and actual tangible steps to make it so.

There’s no protests happening, no politicians want it, the WAxit party is a micro party of Palmer failures who’ll have no political sway at the next election and the real people who run the state (BHP, Rio) don’t want it.

It serves no useful purpose on this thread to pretend there’s a groundswell of grassroots movement for secession.

[KRviator]

Shame the spot price of iron ore is so high. Can only wonder what would have happened to McGoose's state budget and the influence on his hard border if it hadn't contributed to such a big surplus.

But, as the saying goes...What goes up, must come down!

[WingNut60]

C’mon wingnut60, you know the amount of West Aussies with a “burning” desire to “go it alone” is minuscule. I know 28% wanted secession on an opinion poll, but there’s a big difference between saying “ummmm yeah secession doesn’t sound that bad” when asked by an opinion pollster and actual tangible steps to make it so.

There’s no protests happening, no politicians want it, the WAxit party is a micro party of Palmer failures who’ll have no political sway at the next election and the real people who run the state (BHP, Rio) don’t want it.

It serves no useful purpose on this thread to pretend there’s a groundswell of grassroots movement for secession.
Yes. That does not represent reality.
What I should have said was that it drives a burning resentment at being forced to listen to that patronising BS at every turn.

Yes, WA is lucky to be able to capitalise on our mineral wealth and agriculture.
Both are subject to cyclic highs and lows. NSW and Victorian exports are too.
While smuggly denigrating WA do they ever consider the probable impact on their sacred financial services division if they were to lose 46% of their revenue.
Or that the services division might just follow the money.
Plenty of banks in the world.

And any conjecture at a Chinese invasion that focuses only on WA is pure wet dream

[currawong]

I think people are largely missing the point regarding borders and the like.

More to do with ability (or lack thereof) to deal with a major outbreak, than parochialism, politics, space aliens or whatever.

ICU capacity is a good indicator of that ability.

NZ went tougher, ICU places per capita substantially less than Australia.

Western Samoa, less again. A full on sitting of parliament decides entry on an individual case by case basis there.

But keep up the state hate sledging.

Makes you look smarter.:ok:

[Chronic Snoozer]

C’mon wingnut60, you know the amount of West Aussies with a “burning” desire to “go it alone” is minuscule. I know 28% wanted secession on an opinion poll, but there’s a big difference between saying “ummmm yeah secession doesn’t sound that bad” when asked by an opinion pollster and actual tangible steps to make it so.

There’s no protests happening, no politicians want it, the WAxit party is a micro party of Palmer failures who’ll have no political sway at the next election and the real people who run the state (BHP, Rio) don’t want it.

It serves no useful purpose on this thread to pretend there’s a groundswell of grassroots movement for secession.

The irony of your commentary is that it isn't up to WA to secede, the rest of Australia would have to agree to it via a referendum would they not? I was in the WA museum the other day - this very question is posed in one of the displays and a very unscientific counter method used to allow visitors to answer the question "Do you think WA should secede?". The pile of counters for yes was definitely greater than that for no.

And any conjecture at a Chinese invasion that focuses only on WA is pure wet dream No, they are way more subtle than that.

[ruprecht]

I was in the WA museum the other day - this very question is posed in one of the displays and a very unscientific counter method used to allow visitors to answer the question "Do you think WA should secede?". The pile of counters for yes was definitely greater than that for no.

The question could have been: “Do you think people from ‘The East’ are really lizard people in disguise?” and the results would have been similar. :p

[Chronic Snoozer]

The question could have been: “Do you think people from ‘The East’ are really lizard people in disguise?” and the results would have been similar. :p

I think that is in the school curriculum. :p

[dr dre]

The irony of your commentary is that it isn't up to WA to secede, the rest of Australia would have to agree to it via a referendum would they not?

Well, it’s complicated. In the 1933 attempt (spurred by economic discontent at the time) they went to petition the British parliament, which they believed had sovereignty at the time. The British said that the 1931 Statue of Westminster prevented them from interfering in Australian Federal matters. The movement died out.

Lang Hancock started another attempt in the 70’s during the first Iron Ore boom. It got some traction in the press and they fielded some politcial candidates but that died out within time, as this “attempt” will too.

There’s no mention in the Constitution about leaving the Federation, I assume barring a civil war Federal Parliament would have to grant assent, which they won’t.

I was in the WA museum the other day - this very question is posed in one of the displays and a very unscientific counter method used to allow visitors to answer the question "Do you think WA should secede?". The pile of counters for yes was definitely greater than that for no.

I reckon if I posed that question in any state - “Should NSW/Vic/whoever secede if the residents of this state will benefit economically?” the results would be a clear Yes too. It doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.

This thread having devolved into secession talk anyway is pointless, even if WA or any state did secede I doubt it would have a major effect on the amount of people travelling between cities once the pandemic is over, which therefore wouldn’t have too much of an effect on airline jobs, which is what this thread should be about anyway.

[Ragnor]

Vic has mostly opened up, that’s a good start. Hopefully Queen P announces next Friday the same. SA won’t open until Feb but at least they have a date

[WhisprSYD]

Vic has mostly opened up, that’s a good start. Hopefully Queen P announces next Friday the same. SA won’t open until Feb but at least they have a date

yeah good start, but who has a clue to figuring out the traffic light system.

northern beaches LGA with 150+ cases since mid December can come in, but Canada Bay LGA with 0 cases since October can’t...

:ugh:

[Ragnor]

Canada bay can go to Vic unrestricted. It’s just one LGA that can’t go. But you’re correct this traffic light system who can make sense of it.

[WhisprSYD]

Canada bay can go to Vic unrestricted. It’s just one LGA that can’t go. But you’re correct this traffic light system who can make sense of it.

Ok, I must of missed that update today

[michigan j]

even if WA or any state did secede I doubt it would have a major effect on the amount of people travelling between cities once the pandemic is over, which therefore wouldn’t have too much of an effect on airline jobs, which is what this thread should be about anyway.

Good summary - but remember that would also involve a CASA and a CASWA, and international relations between them.

[Bend alot]

WA had/has a policy of dividing the state into sections that get travel restrictions when/if they get community COVID cases.

If they simply applied that to other states and territories, that would be a good start.

SA, QLD, VIC, NT & NSW could be broken up into many zones and only the zone/s (that everyone knows in advance) get shut down if a cases evolve.

[Ragnor]

It is already applied to NSW, in the form of LGA at the current minute Cumberland is the only LGA not allowed to enter Victoria. Why that is I have no idea very random.

[KRviator]

It is already applied to NSW, in the form of LGA at the current minute Cumberland is the only LGA not allowed to enter Victoria. Why that is I have no idea very random.Qld, the NT and, IIRC SA also had LGA-Specific restrictions on entry vs locking out the whole state, WA being the holdout with their typical "EVERYONE in NSW is a risk to us" attitude.

Yet McGoose wants Gladys to "go with the majority and eliminate the virus...." but it seems to me I can travel almost anywhere in the country from my country-NSW LGA, except WA.

[Ragnor]

When will QLD make a decision are they wanting 28 days still?! SA earliest opening to Sydney is February 2nd for 14 days.

[wheels_down]

Looks about Monday 15th for Sydney/Queensland to open, IF things stay at zero.

So if Sydney pickup another case this coming week its basically game over until March 1.

Rex looking doubtful. Dan will follow his colleague up north. The question is how long will it last also once the gates are open. 30 days seems a good figure to put cash on.

Why even bother trying to travel domestically this year. Confidence had most certainly dropped off in the last 30 days, well from the conversations I’ve picked up.

[Bend alot]

Interesting is WA have on their web page requirements for very low, low and medium risk states.

They also state what very low and low is as per community COVID 19 numbers - BUT THEY have not followed their own public info! On this QLD should only have risen to low, from very low as only 2 cases were in the community in last rolling 14 - they state up to 5 cases of rolling 14 days is a low category risk state or territory.

[dr dre]

On this QLD should only have risen to low, from very low as only 2 cases were in the community in last rolling 14 - they state up to 5 cases of rolling 14 days is a low category risk state or territory.

The higher classification came from the outbreak being of the B117 mutation which has a higher risk of transmissibility, which is why all states applied restrictions on Queensland straight away. Normal protocols and classifications had to be altered to take into account the higher risk of exponential growth outpacing contact tracing ability, it’s a testament to the hotel worker who was infected that they limited their contact whilst working in a high risk job.

If you do a little bit of looking you’ll see there’s hard science behind these decisions, it isn’t all a conspiracy.

[Ragnor]

Why even bother trying to travel domestically this year. Confidence had most certainly dropped off in the last 30 days, well from the conversations I’ve picked up.

Thats interesting, conversations I’ve had with travelers and what I have seen indicates the opposite. Ppl just want to be able to move around see their family, holiday and do business. It will come back just like November. But, mostly likely closing again in April because of one case.

[ANstar]

Interesting is WA have on their web page requirements for very low, low and medium risk states.

They also state what very low and low is as per community COVID 19 numbers - BUT THEY have not followed their own public info! On this QLD should only have risen to low, from very low as only 2 cases were in the community in last rolling 14 - they state up to 5 cases of rolling 14 days is a low category risk state or territory.
Also worth pointing out it was QLD that asked for all states to declare BNE as a hotspot... which then triggered the border restrictions.

[Bend alot]

The higher classification came from the outbreak being of the B117 mutation which has a higher risk of transmissibility, which is why all states applied restrictions on Queensland straight away. Normal protocols and classifications had to be altered to take into account the higher risk of exponential growth outpacing contact tracing ability, it’s a testament to the hotel worker who was infected that they limited their contact whilst working in a high risk job.

If you do a little bit of looking you’ll see there’s hard science behind these decisions, it isn’t all a conspiracy.
They have had about 14 days to amend the website! not very hard.

Very little science - distance and population density are a key factor - and truth is there was no real community transmittions of that strain even though the ground zero case used public transport. The only community case was her partner.

Got some science for that 70% more contagious variant or just luck?

Actual fact in Australia by science is it is less transmittable here, or am I missing the science on that?

Up to 5 days infectious in the community and all.

The numbers and rates of this virus are weird across the World but the stats within countries are pretty consistent after around 6 months after the first cases/second waves. They can be both good and bad and many countries (I have visited or lived) are pretty honest on such things. But the stats are way off what I expected.

[dr dre]

Very little science - distance and population density are a key factor - and truth is there was no real community transmittions of that strain even though the ground zero case used public transport. The only community case was her partner.

Could have used a mask, could have been in an empty part of the train, could have coughed/sneezed into the elbow, could have not been shedding at that time.....

Got some science for that 70% more contagious variant or just luck?


Lineage-specific growth of SARS-CoV-2 B.1.1.7 during the English national lockdown (https://virological.org/t/lineage-specific-growth-of-sars-cov-2-b-1-1-7-during-the-english-national-lockdown/575)

Covid-19: New variant raises R number by up to 0.7 (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55507012)

Actual fact in Australia by science is it is less transmittable here, or am I missing the science on that?

Single clusters are rarely good to form conclusions from. We know that if strain B1.1.7 gets into the community it does spread more than previous dominant strains. This is seen in nations which have had large outbreak of it.

Take Ireland for example. For the most part they were doing a good job with the pandemic. That all changed with the new mutation becoming the dominant variant. Now their health system is beginning to reach capacity.

[Bend alot]

Could have used a mask, could have been in an empty part of the train, could have coughed/sneezed into the elbow, could have not been shedding at that time.....



Lineage-specific growth of SARS-CoV-2 B.1.1.7 during the English national lockdown (https://virological.org/t/lineage-specific-growth-of-sars-cov-2-b-1-1-7-during-the-english-national-lockdown/575)

Covid-19: New variant raises R number by up to 0.7 (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55507012)



Single clusters are rarely good to form conclusions from. We know that if strain B1.1.7 gets into the community it does spread more than previous dominant strains. This is seen in nations which have had large outbreak of it.

Take Ireland for example. For the most part they were doing a good job with the pandemic. That all changed with the new mutation becoming the dominant variant. Now their health system is beginning to reach capacity.
Try Botswana almost same number of cases as Australia - far fewer deaths and 1 10th the population.

New mutation to date is nothing outside both UK and South Africa (note Botswana is next door to south African strain).

If you think both the South African and UK variants are not in Botswana - I quote the Castle.

All the links and stuff still mean nothing look at Sweden originally the great model - then not. then we are still not sure (but certainly not a great model) they may end up not too bad.

What does seem to work (in affected state) is a hard fast large lock down - in Australia. That has worked in a number of states with the outbreaks. TAS, QLD and SA spring to mind.

[Joker89]

Take Ireland for example. For the most part they were doing a good job with the pandemic. That all changed with the new mutation becoming the dominant variant. Now their health system is beginning to reach capacity.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/cf663-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-friday-22-january/

200 odd in ICU, actually looks like it’s under control. As is Sweden

[dr dre]

200 odd in ICU, actually looks like it’s under control.

Totally under control, that’s barely anyone in the ICU, I’m sure there’s heaps more space left.......

‘Urgent need of volunteers’ — Irish hospitals on the brink with just 26 ICU beds left in entire country (https://extra.ie/2021/01/23/news/irish-news/urgent-need-of-volunteers-irish-hospitals-on-the-brink-with-just-26-icu-beds-left-in-entire-country)

As is Sweden

They’re totally under control as well man, totally......

Covid-19 forces Swedish hospitals to delay 'necessary surgery' - Every one of the country's 21 regional healthcare authorities reported being in a "strained" or "very strained" situation, with the regions of Jönköping and Uppsala telling SR that they were having to postpone urgent operations on cancer or heart patients (https://www.thelocal.se/20210109/hospitals-in-sweden-forced-to-delay-necessary-operations)

But hey, just the flu right......

[Joker89]

200 out of 4 million people, what a disaster, median age of death 82

your link for Sweden is 2 weeks old, check the daily infection and death rates for the last few days.

you mention Sweden a lot yet you probably don’t know anyone living there or ever lived there yourself.

The only impact to normal people lives is the local
swimming pool and ice rink is closed. Kids still attending primary school. Grand parents not forbidden to visit their loved ones. And life goes on without the political bull crap Australia dishes out on a daily basis.

the fact is people get sick from a range of things, unfortunately some of these people die at an earlier age than is desirable. Can’t ever change that. You sprout a lot of garbage of health systems coming close to collapse. Where is the evidence of it actually happening. More people died in December 1993 in Sweden than April 2020. Also, there is basically zero flu now so look at excess mortality before preaching doomsday predictions.

[morno]

You sprout a lot of garbage of health systems coming close to collapse. Where is the evidence of it actually happening.

California. Paramedics told not to transport patients to hospital who have a grim outlook, and I’m not just talking about Covid patients. Paramedics told to limit the use of oxygen, due to low supply.

I can’t be arsed finding links to the stories that proves it, but they’d be very easy to find.

[Climb150]

California. Paramedics told not to transport patients to hospital who have a grim outlook, and I’m not just talking about Covid patients. Paramedics told to limit the use of oxygen, due to low supply.

I can’t be arsed finding links to the stories that proves it, but they’d be very easy to find.

Seems to be a bit of a scaremongering by the news networks. This from NPR,

Well, actually, it is best practice to resuscitate patients in cardiac arrest in the field where they are found. That is our normal protocol in LA County. So the shift towards not transporting patients who do not have restoration of pulse is a relatively small change. These patients have very limited chance of survival. And so these are the patients that we're asking the paramedics to call in to our base hospitals, discuss with the base physician and determine if further resuscitation is futile and therefore terminate resuscitation on scene. We are continuing to resuscitate patients in cardiac arrest, and we continue to transport all patients in whom our paramedics are able to resuscitate in the field
Another gem from the same article,

And I say that because I see how people are still congregating in groups and making decisions to have family gatherings or New Year's parties. And these decisions are what continues to impact our health care system.

So the LA ambulance system is being overwhelmed by people who probably seem not to take advice seriously.

[blubak]

Could have used a mask, could have been in an empty part of the train, could have coughed/sneezed into the elbow, could have not been shedding at that time.....



Lineage-specific growth of SARS-CoV-2 B.1.1.7 during the English national lockdown (https://virological.org/t/lineage-specific-growth-of-sars-cov-2-b-1-1-7-during-the-english-national-lockdown/575)

Covid-19: New variant raises R number by up to 0.7 (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55507012)



Single clusters are rarely good to form conclusions from. We know that if strain B1.1.7 gets into the community it does spread more than previous dominant strains. This is seen in nations which have had large outbreak of it.

Take Ireland for example. For the most part they were doing a good job with the pandemic. That all changed with the new mutation becoming the dominant variant. Now their health system is beginning to reach capacity.
Numbers in ireland are down from 8000 a day to around 2000 with generally 60+ deaths per day.
Their govt are saying no relief from restrictions till at least end of feb however it seems you can still go for an overseas holiday with the govt response being,you shouldnt go!
Puzzles me somewhat when you read that & also only a requirement to have a test within 72hrs of returning.

[dr dre]

The only impact to normal people lives is the local swimming pool and ice rink is closed. Kids still attending primary school. Grand parents not forbidden to visit their loved ones. And life goes on without the political bull crap Australia dishes out on a daily basis.

There’s a ban there on gatherings above 8 (https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud), 10 sqm per person in public areas, ban on non essential entry from outside EU, total ban on UK and Denmark, non essential public buildings closed til Feb. Mask recommendations issued for the first time in December. Plus a lot of nursing homes have chosen to close to visitors so grand parents visits are limited. And High schools switched to remote learning. Life certainly isn’t back to normal there.

Where is the evidence of it actually happening.

You don’t think “necessary and urgent” heart and cancer surgery being delayed is a problem?

More people died in December 1993 in Sweden than April 2020. Also, there is basically zero flu now so look at excess mortality before preaching doomsday predictions.

They had their deadliest November since 1918. Excess mortality was clearly above average (https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Excess_mortality_-_statistics&oldid=509982) in 2020, as was the same in every European country.

Sweden’s strategy has given them a death rate 10 times higher (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) than their Nordic brethren in Norway and Finland and 3 times higher than Denmark.

But the most telling thing is that even the King of Sweden admitted their strategy has been a failure. Their Prime Minister has admitted it was a failure (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-23/swedish-prime-minister-admits-strategy-to-stop-virus-fell-short). Even their Chief Epidemiologist back-pedalled (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/03/868567924/swedens-coronavirus-response-chief-acknowledges-potential-for-improvement). You can’t try to rehabilitate what they’ve done now if they themselves have admitted it was a mistake.

[dr dre]

Numbers in ireland are down from 8000 a day to around 2000 with generally 60+ deaths per day.


That’s because the nation was been in a lockdown since the end of last month. Tough measures are working, but the pandemic is still a serious issue if you fail to do anything.

[Ragnor]

The main thing is Australia can almost open up domestically again, I’m busting for a holiday.

[WingNut60]

The main thing is Australia can almost open up domestically again, I’m busting for a holiday.
It's a bit hot in Broome at this time of year but our south coast regions are always good ................if you can get a booking!
Good luck with that.
Plus, of course, we don't know which "Denmark" you are supposed to be in.

[KRviator]

The main thing is Australia can almost open up domestically again, I’m busting for a holiday.Why would anyone risk booking anything interstate? Someone only has to sneeze in Cobar and McGowan is likely to reinstate the hard border. I'm flabbergasted Anna-Stayaway "only" implemented a hotspot-based approach with the Avalon & Berala outbreaks. I mean, who would have thought someone at Dubbo would have less risk of bringing the Pestilence to Queensland than someone from Drummoyne? Everyone knows WA is the leader here, and the NT, Victoria, SA, Queensland and even Tasmania are all wrong with their health advice.

Nope, if I want a holiday, it'll be somewhere relatively local.

[Turnleft080]

Why would anyone risk booking anything interstate? Someone only has to sneeze in Cobar and McGowan is likely to reinstate the hard border. I'm flabbergasted Anna-Stayaway "only" implemented a hotspot-based approach with the Avalon & Berala outbreaks. I mean, who would have thought someone at Dubbo would have less risk of bringing the Pestilence to Queensland than someone from Drummoyne? Everyone knows WA is the leader here, and the NT, Victoria, SA, Queensland and even Tasmania are all wrong with their health advice.

Nope, if I want a holiday, it'll be somewhere relatively local.
Us lepers in Melbourne from July to Oct last year had wonderful local holidays.
It was called going to the supermarket and strolling the magnificent scenery of food items in
their natural habitat called shelves.

[Global Aviator]

Us lepers in Melbourne from July to Oct last year had wonderful local holidays.
It was called going to the supermarket and strolling the magnificent scenery of food items in
their natural habitat called shelves.

Gotta keep the humour alive!!!

People will travel.

The only difference is having a get out quick contingency plan!

[Ragnor]

Ppl will travel and this mornings announcement will give the traveling public confidents now.

The next issue is, how will the state premiers react when there is a covid case July when most of the population is vaccinated.

NZ just went two months now they have that nasty strain even after a negative result this is here for the long term McGoose and Queen P need to accept that.

[KRviator]

NZ just went two months now they have that nasty strain even after a negative result this is here for the long term McGoose and Queen P need to accept that.<sarcasm> Point of order, good sir. They are the Premier's of their states! They don't have to "accept" anything! The buck stops with them, remember! </sarcasm>

On a serious note though, all that means is they will likely mandate 4 weeks quarantine for interstate travelers, instead of 2 weeks. At the travelers expense remember.

After all, if you can afford to travel with the economy the way it is, you can afford to spend $8,000 in "hotel" quarantine costs! Unless you're a sportsman, actor, own a newspaper or are the BFF of a politician, in which case, you can quarantine wherever you damn well please....

[Transition Layer]

That’s because the nation was been in a lockdown since the end of last month. Tough measures are working, but the pandemic is still a serious issue if you fail to do anything.

dr dre,

Are you by any chance an actual Doctor? You seem to have some very strong opinions on this topic. And you also seem to fail to empathise with Pilots who are advocating a loosening of State border restrictions in Australia, in the faint hope more of us will get back to work.

[Australopithecus]

You don’t need to be a doctor to not empathise with the craven, self-serving cries to open borders and damn the torpedos. The pilots here advocating free travel seem to discount the public not actually wanting to fly to a hot spot. Even the borders that are open currently are not seeing paying loads on many of the few flights. Additionally, readers here have to wade through some real drivel and occasional anti-boomer screed which does not do your case any good.

[Green.Dot]

Pax numbers certainly aren’t matching the hype that the airlines have been talking up even now that travel is unrestricted between many states.

School holidays are almost over- Feb and March will no doubt be underwhelming. Hopefully Easter & next school holidays will bring more joy, but this will all be subject to how many more knee jerks we see from leaders between now and then.

[KRviator]

You don’t need to be a doctor to not empathise with the craven, self-serving cries to open borders and damn the torpedos. The pilots here advocating free travel seem to discount the public not actually wanting to fly to a hot spot. Even the borders that are open currently are not seeing paying loads on many of the few flights. Additionally, readers here have to wade through some real drivel and occasional anti-boomer screed which does not do your case any good.Likewise, you don't need to be a pilot to understand the current "open-closed-open-partially closed (for now, we'll see tomorrow morning, maybe) - nope, still open for now" régime of the various *cough* leaders *cough* does nothing whatsoever to build confidence in the ability of Australian's to feel safe travelling interstate, without either being screwed over on arrival (WA) or on their return (Victoria/Qld). Look at that idiot Victorian Police Minister (or whatever he was) that said "I see no problem whatsoever driving non-stop from the Queensland Border tothe Victorian Border, if you want to get home" (slightly paraphrased, but you get the idea).

Why on earth would you book a holiday interstate if there's the slightest chance you could be up for 14 days quarantine on your return, assuming you actually made it to your holiday destination in the first place, or weren't forced to quarantine there?

As for the anti-boomer sentiment, I don't subscribe to it much, but it is undeniable that the major beneficiaries of the border closures (to 'keep them safe' remember) and resultant economic damage are the boomers, while those most affected by the economic carnage are those generations that follow...

[morno]

My wife tells me that she’d like to travel to Sydney to see friends. No flippin’ way would I risk letting her because we certainly can’t afford 2 weeks quarantine if they suddenly close the borders. She agrees.

There’s what I imagine would be a pretty common conversation in many households in Australia right now.

[Dannyboy39]

*cough* leaders *cough*..
Don’t do that, you’ll put the PPRuNe server into quarantine and no one from outside able to enter for 100 years.

[Bend alot]

My wife tells me that she’d like to travel to Sydney to see friends. No flippin’ way would I risk letting her because we certainly can’t afford 2 weeks quarantine if they suddenly close the borders. She agrees.

There’s what I imagine would be a pretty common conversation in many households in Australia right now.
The worst part is booking a ticket/s and all that goes with a holiday (no refundable pre paid hire car & other) and waiting for that flight to get airborne.

It is not great but not so bad going into 14 days self isolation on return because of a few cases many miles away but in the state you visited.

But I have already booked another domestic interstate flight.

[Ragnor]

So.... this one does not want an open trans Tasmin bubble but has the hide to call out Aussies for being over reactive.Coronavirus: Trans-Tasman bubble in trouble, Jacinda Ardern sayshttps://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/4d895690f6061d4bdbeba909e1eed673?width=650 (https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/4d895690f6061d4bdbeba909e1eed673)New Zealanders have been temporarily barred from quarantine-free travel to Australia following a highly infectious strain of COVID was identified on the North Island. Picture: Brett Costello

Robyn Ironside (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/author/Robyn+Ironside)
Aviation Writer
@ironsider (https://twitter.com/ironsider)


Australia’s reaction to a highly infectious COVID case in New Zealand could dash hopes of a trans-Tasman bubble being established before Easter.

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on Tuesday described Australia’s three-day halt to quarantine-free travel by New Zealanders as disappointing, and a potential threat to a trans-Tasman travel arrangement.

Australia had allowed New Zealanders to visit without the need to quarantine since late last year, but the same privilege has not been afforded to Aussies.
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/29c4b596f096982e31a393acb6c2c767?width=320 (https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/29c4b596f096982e31a393acb6c2c767)Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern. Picture: Getty Images On Monday, Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt announced any kiwis arriving in Australia over the next 72-hours would be required to go into hotel quarantine, after a woman tested positive to a highly infectious South African strain of COVID-19 on Saturday.

The woman had been in hotel quarantine in Auckland and only returned a positive test a week after she was released.

Anyone else who had arrived in Australia from New Zealand since January 14 was urged to get tested and self-isolate until a result was returned.

Australia’s response to the case frustrated the travel industry, and Ms Ardern said she had “expressed her disappointment” in a phone call with Scott Morrison on Monday night.

“I conveyed the confidence that we have in our systems but also just acknowledged that if we are to enter into a trans-Tasman bubble we will need to be able to give people confidence that we won’t see closures at the borders that happen with very short notice over incidents that we believe can be well managed domestically,” she said.

Asked if the response was an “over-reaction” to a single COVID case, Ms Ardern said “ultimately it was a decision for Australia”.

“I certainly shared my view (with Mr Morrison) that this was a situation that was well under control, that we have had experiences in New Zealand with these situations in the past, if we’re going to run a trans-Tasman arrangement we need to be able to manage situations like this.”

Ms Ardern said she remained hopeful a trans-Tasman bubble could be established with Australia by the end of March.

“We are continuing to pursue it but what we will need to establish is a way that we can have that arrangement without seeing such disruption over events that may happen from time to time,” she said.

“One of the challenges is not every state (of Australia) has the same approach as New Zealand and that difference does add a level of complication.”

There had been no further cases in New Zealand linked to the woman with the South African strain. Of 16 close contacts identified, 15 had returned negative tests and one test was still pending.

[DirectAnywhere]

Yup, the rank hypocrisy from the federal government is remarkable. One case in NZ, shut the borders, yet protest against premiers who do the same.

You can't have your cake and eat it Scott, Josh Et al. Either one case is a threat, or it's not. It's the inconsistency that's killing any chance of a recovery in aviation.

[Buster Hyman]

The worst part is booking a ticket/s and all that goes with a holiday (no refundable pre paid hire car & other) and waiting for that flight to get airborne.
You've just described Sub-Load travel.

[turbantime]

Yup, the rank hypocrisy from the federal government is remarkable. One case in NZ, shut the borders, yet protest against premiers who do the same.

Equally hypocritical are Jacinta’s remarks. She complains about Australia closing borders yet she keeps her borders closed to Aus.

[Ragnor]

Yes Jacinta..... Sco Mo reacted the same as he did with QLD few weeks ago.

[WingNut60]

Yup, the rank hypocrisy from the federal government is remarkable. One case in NZ, shut the borders, yet protest against premiers who do the same.


Thanks for that. I thought that it was going to go unremarked.
Where is the hyperbole when it's one of your own.

[Sunfish]

Idle chatter. The Doctors are determining the strategies, not the politicians. The strategies and hence restrictions must change at least as fast as the virus does or we go under. We now are dealing with:

1) A British strain that is 70% more infectious.

2) A South African strain that is more infectious and more lethal.

3) An emerging Brazilian strain from Manaus that is apparently more lethal to younger people.

4) Evidence of long term neurological damage in younger people as well as apparently permanent damage to organs.

5) An outbreak in New Zealand of the South African strain that potentially has already crossed the Tasman.

Most of you seem not to understand that the threat from the virus is to do with logistics not lethality (we hope). By that I mean that the virus may not lethal to you personally but it is totally lethal to our health system because we can run out of all medical supplies (materials and people) quite easily and that causes secondary deaths from untreated conditions.

Under these circumstances "opening borders" is not possible as Britain and Europe have found out.

As for local travel, Air travel is absolutely out. You need a car in case you have to make a run for your state border. Then there is the inconvenience; friends kids spent 6+ hours in the queue at YMML on return from Queensland last night.

[empacher48]

Equally hypocritical are Jacinta’s remarks. She complains about Australia closing borders yet she keeps her borders closed to Aus.

At least you know where you stand with Jacinda and the State Governments. However the Federal Government has done an almighty back flip with regards to what Australians consider a Hotspot.

[601]

However the Federal Government has done an almighty back flip with regards to what Australians consider a Hotspot.

How so???????

[Global Aviator]

Idle chatter. The Doctors are determining the strategies, not the politicians. The strategies and hence restrictions must change at least as fast as the virus does or we go under. We now are dealing with:

1) A British strain that is 70% more infectious.

2) A South African strain that is more infectious and more lethal.

3) An emerging Brazilian strain from Manaus that is apparently more lethal to younger people.

4) Evidence of long term neurological damage in younger people as well as apparently permanent damage to organs.

5) An outbreak in New Zealand of the South African strain that potentially has already crossed the Tasman.

Most of you seem not to understand that the threat from the virus is to do with logistics not lethality (we hope). By that I mean that the virus may not lethal to you personally but it is totally lethal to our health system because we can run out of all medical supplies (materials and people) quite easily and that causes secondary deaths from untreated conditions.

Under these circumstances "opening borders" is not possible as Britain and Europe have found out.

As for local travel, Air travel is absolutely out. You need a car in case you have to make a run for your state border. Then there is the inconvenience; friends kids spent 6+ hours in the queue at YMML on return from Queensland last night.

As I wait to board I can assure you air travel is most definitely not out. One just needs to have contingencies if required. Don’t be so alarmist, travel and tourism industries need people flying to recover.