All borders to reopen. [Archive] - Page 37

AerialPerspective

21st Dec 2021, 09:02

Sadly true. That fact makes a mockery of democracy, doesn’t it? And what’s worse, social media has provided an unstoppable infection vector for stupidity.

Democracy is fine, what it makes a mockery of is the pathetic state of education and the fact that enough are too dumb or uninformed to spot when they're being fed BS people simply can't be bothered if they hear the magic words, even from a certifiable liar....... "tax cut".... there is a proportion of the Australian electorate who are the quintessential 'Charlie Brown' to 'Lucy' of Peanuts fame - she holds the ball every year for Charlie Brown to kick, every year she promises she won't pull it away at the last second, causing CB to fall on his arse, like she does every year and every year Charlie falls for it.... same here, ScoMo says "tax cut" and all the morons vote based on it and every time after the election they find out the fine print says "in 3-4 years time"....

AerialPerspective

21st Dec 2021, 09:05

Always a creep, doubly so when campaigning for re-election.

Please don't insult creeps. I'm sure there are creeps with, in fact, a cockroach crawling up some toilet wall somewhere, with more redemptive tissue than the happy-clappy-slogan-bogan.......

Buster Hyman

21st Dec 2021, 11:20

A mockery of Democracy? Come to Victoria if you want to see that!

601

21st Dec 2021, 11:59

Always a creep, doubly so when campaigning for re-election.
Obviously an opinion not shared by everyone.

Who knew that Scotty decided whether States or parts of States would lock down? I thought lockdowns were not his responsibility...
The PM is responsible for everything - You obviously have not been paying attention to the media or listening to the State Premiers.

Doors Off

21st Dec 2021, 12:12

The system is broke - big time! We have tyranny increasing, Ozziegarch property “portfolio” owners, corruption running crazy from local to Federal and Federal MP’s who, on average own 4.1 properties - whilst we have homeless people and schools that can’t afford text books or run a Physics class.

The corrupt circus, that is “Parliament” is a disgrace. Self interest, in the main, will always take front stage. However, whether or not we still have our jobs, the fact that we can’t travel domestically, is now - nonsensical.

The Public service office types and the MP’s are living the dream. Guaranteed income, work from home from their Holiday homes are as out of touch as XiPing and the Tsars.

Ladloy

21st Dec 2021, 19:46

Democracy is fine, what it makes a mockery of is the pathetic state of education and the fact that enough are too dumb or uninformed to spot when they're being fed BS people simply can't be bothered if they hear the magic words, even from a certifiable liar....... "tax cut".... there is a proportion of the Australian electorate who are the quintessential 'Charlie Brown' to 'Lucy' of Peanuts fame - she holds the ball every year for Charlie Brown to kick, every year she promises she won't pull it away at the last second, causing CB to fall on his arse, like she does every year and every year Charlie falls for it.... same here, ScoMo says "tax cut" and all the morons vote based on it and every time after the election they find out the fine print says "in 3-4 years time"....
Or the fine print says that you need to make almost triple the median wage to receive the cut.

43Inches

21st Dec 2021, 20:42

Hmm, "democracy is broken".

I find this thread funny, first you say it's broken in some way that the states acting in line with the majority beliefs of their population, which is democracy in action. In WAs case getting re-elected mid pandemic with a massive margin, NSW with high popularity ratings and even Victoria with reasonably high approval even with all the other state issues going on outside of Covid. Democracy is the will of the people, so saying that the PM should be over-riding the states policies to satisfy the few would be, hmm, dictatorship. Then talking about underfunded public education, which is a socialist policy, again moving away from choice into the theme of we all have to pay for it whether we want it or not. If you want more funding for your schools, get on the bandwagon, make it known to your local MP as a major issue above everything else, same for hospitals and the rest. Yes a lot of voters are just backing red or blue or names and know little about policy, however the election is decided by the educated as they swing with whats best. All the 'not so electoral savy' will do is prevent one or the other side being wiped out, giving some stability to the govern vs opposition mantra. BTW I don't see massive protests against compulsory, mandated voting.

Ascend Charlie

22nd Dec 2021, 03:53

And I can think of nothing worse than Prime Minister Albo.

Wait, yes I can, Clive Palmer. Julia Gillard. Any Green person.

Aussie Bob

22nd Dec 2021, 05:36

This thread is a laugh. Started in May 2020, it will no doubt make two years and by that time we will be discussing 7 different countries. I see old mate in WA has just sealed his border even tighter :-)

Ladloy

22nd Dec 2021, 08:55

And I can think of nothing worse than Prime Minister Albo.

Wait, yes I can, Clive Palmer. Julia Gillard. Any Green person.
Is Albo worse than Scomo? If so, why?

Angle of Attack

22nd Dec 2021, 08:56

Ascend Charlie, well if your tired and retired you fit right in to crusted old right wing numbnuts. I just love how you deny anyone a gong except your crusted on Liberal party, brought on most likely by your upbringing. Enjoy your retirement, the tide will wash away most of you next year. Enjoy buddy! 👍

Angle of Attack

22nd Dec 2021, 09:01

Aussie Bob

22nd Dec 2021, 09:25

Is the passage of legislation the hallmark of a good PM? Just asking.

The one piece of legislation the feds should pass is to end the individual states closing their borders. We could become Australia again. I won’t hold my breath waiting.

Angle of Attack

22nd Dec 2021, 09:39

The Feds have absolutely no authority to pass such legislation, it’s called Federation, and we are behold to the State Premiers, full stop.

SOPS

22nd Dec 2021, 09:44

Western Australia is now closed off to the rest of the country, It is not up to the PM. Its up to the Premiers.

Buster Hyman

22nd Dec 2021, 10:21

PM trying to keep the country open. Premiers playing power games. Roll on a referendum and put an end to this stupidity! We need one clear voice & direction, doesn’t matter what Party.

(Never seen a Republican model I liked, but if one gets put up to abolish States, then it’ll get a Yes from me!)

SHVC

22nd Dec 2021, 10:22

Scomo is a basically corrupt marketing puppet that has passed less than 20% of the legislation that Gillard did in 4 times the amount in office. Anyone that hasn’t realised this yet must be brain dead or stupid. Everything he says turns to nothing and anything he does has been useless. You can’t polish a turd…

WOW! Such strong comments! You forget Labour pollies are just as bad. Covid aside, you are totally blind to the each way betting idiot Albo on all fronts. He stands for nothing like the rest of those labour fools.

SHVC

22nd Dec 2021, 10:24

Western Australia is now closed off to the rest of the country, It is not up to the PM. Its up to the Premiers.

Actually, closed to the World. Australia does not care barley made news over here. It’s is what WA voted for, this is what they want.

Angle of Attack

22nd Dec 2021, 11:15

SHVC, no I’m just saying the facts, I’m not a LABOR supporter (note the spelling) , a brand new independent would be quite frankly superior to Scomo atm, he has lost the F ing plot. I support diluting these fat arsed major parties and making them work for their money, this bull crap about stability has been spruiked since the 60’s, Bring it! Boomers will now sledge me, but hey prepare for death losers, your time is about to end! Lol!

Clare Prop

22nd Dec 2021, 14:08

Western Australia is now closed off to the rest of the country, It is not up to the PM. Its up to the Premiers.

Not until Boxing Day.

Ladloy

22nd Dec 2021, 20:45

WOW! Such strong comments! You forget Labour pollies are just as bad. Covid aside, you are totally blind to the each way betting idiot Albo on all fronts. He stands for nothing like the rest of those labour fools.
So why is the LNP better? What policies make them stand out?

SHVC

22nd Dec 2021, 22:35

Ladloy

22nd Dec 2021, 23:06

LNP handling of the pandemic is one. if Labor was in, no way they would of had the balance sheet like LNP had to support JK, JS and business support. Lower taxes, balls to have stronger national security the list goes on.

A vote for labor in my opinion is a vote for the Greens and all the independents, imagine that JL bogan in the upper house she is terrible. One of the policy of Labor is this net zero rubbish. Albos plan of reducing emmisions by 43% by 2030 which will be 7.5yrs away by the time election is done and he has moved in without a sustainable plan to get there. If Labor gets in they will bow down to Xi, with sorry speeches and hugs. At least PD and SM have the balls to make Australia number 1. Many more of their policy’s are rubbish.

The current PM is not that bad, we know what he stands for at least and he is a heck of a lot better than each way albo. Recent announcements SM has made in Labor strong holds in QLDare very good ideas although the truck apprentiship should of been thought of 10+ yrs ago with expat drivers.
I would hope PD takes the reins one day he will make a fine PM.
The current balance sheet is worse than it has ever been, even before covid. The LNP has accrued more debt than any other Aus government in history with no plan to pay it back. Not. One. Single. Plan. Lower taxes from the LNP is also a myth. Most taxpayers will have a tax rise when the tax offset is removed next year. High income earners will get huge savings costing the budget even further.

Dutton doesn't like China but he sure acts like he wants the same as China. Internet surveillance, social media censorship. We'll be accruing social credits to go with all that debt in no time. Labor also agrees with everything the LNP has done on the Chinese policy level.

SOPS

23rd Dec 2021, 03:31

Mask mandates. Capacity limits back. No singing and dancing in doors. Does not seem like the Premiers are listening to the PM at all.

Ascend Charlie

23rd Dec 2021, 06:24

Gillard's passing of a bucketful of legislation doesn't make her a good PM. It just makes more red tape. We need fewer laws, not more. Just better laws.

The LNP has accrued more debt than any other Aus government in history
Would that perhaps be through the JobKeeper payments, which kept small businesses like mine alive, and allowed me to continue employing people? Our unemployment numbers are amazingly low, which isn't helping me at all, I need more workers. So do the restaurants.

All Albo does is squawk out the one-liners written for him to be a sound grab, no depth, and his only policy seems to be to bag the LNP, not promote the country.

Icarus2001

23rd Dec 2021, 06:25

No dancing unless you are at a wedding.

How does the virus know the difference?

Transition Layer

23rd Dec 2021, 06:57

Western Australia is now closed off to the rest of the country, It is not up to the PM. Its up to the Premiers.
And now McGowan is sh!tting his pants just a few days from Xmas with mask mandates and other restrictions over ONE case. When asked why no lockdown, he replied “because of our very high vaccination rate…one of the highest in the world”. Well if the rate is so high, then why not open the borders?

Karma is a b!tch though and McGowan deserves a dose of it. WA may well be locked down by New Years Eve once this spreads during Xmas gatherings. Bring it on, and hopefully we won’t have to wait til Feb 5 for some common sense to finally prevail.

Torukmacto

23rd Dec 2021, 06:58

Time to join the party Mark , let it rip !

dr dre

23rd Dec 2021, 07:05

Would that perhaps be through the JobKeeper payments, which kept small businesses like mine alive, and allowed me to continue employing people?

No, National debt has been rising under Labor and then Liberal governments since the GFC, Covid and JobKeeper has only accelerated it.

Anyway some interesting news out of the McGowan press conference today about the spread in Perth. He said that if there was enough community spread the planned February 5th reopening becomes redundant.

So that all important date, you know the title of the thread “All Borders to Reopen” may be imminent.

Transition Layer

23rd Dec 2021, 07:33

Anyway some interesting news out of the McGowan press conference today about the spread in Perth. He said that if there was enough community spread the planned February 5th reopening becomes redundant.

So that all important date, you know the title of the thread “All Borders to Reopen” may be imminent.
We can only hope dr dre

NumptyAussie

23rd Dec 2021, 07:44

And now McGowan is sh!tting his pants just a few days from Xmas with mask mandates and other restrictions over ONE case. When asked why no lockdown, he replied “because of our very high vaccination rate…one of the highest in the world”. Well if the rate is so high, then why not open the borders?

Karma is a b!tch though and McGowan deserves a dose of it. WA may well be locked down by New Years Eve once this spreads during Xmas gatherings. Bring it on, and hopefully we won’t have to wait til Feb 5 for some common sense to finally prevail.

You do seem to be rather an unpleasant fellow wishing Covid on people.

Transition Layer

23rd Dec 2021, 07:47

You do seem to be rather an unpleasant fellow wishing Covid on people.
Yep…I would hate for fully vaccinated healthy people to get a runny nose and sore throat. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night.

StudentInDebt

23rd Dec 2021, 08:26

Yep…I would hate for fully vaccinated healthy people to get a runny nose and sore throat. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night.what about the people who spend weeks in ICU units, go on to develop long-COVID or die?

dr dre

23rd Dec 2021, 08:50

what about the people who spend weeks in ICU units, go on to develop long-COVID or die?

Well the vast, vast majority of people in ICUs are unvaccinated.

We’ve now reached a point where Australia’s high vaccination levels will mostly keep ICUs from overflowing. Every leader is now pretty much abandoning those who’ve chosen to not take a vaccine. And Australia has, through want of getting out of lockdowns or mandates, one of the highest vaxxed adult populations.

Those who die of Covid are now matching standard excess mortality, which means they’re not causing a massive increase in death. Check out this graph of UK excess mortality for instance:

Excess Mortality in England (https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiYmUwNmFhMjYtNGZhYS00NDk2LWFlMTAtOTg0OGNhNmFiN GM0IiwidCI6ImVlNGUxNDk5LTRhMzUtNGIyZS1hZDQ3LTVmM2NmOWRlODY2N iIsImMiOjh9)

Spikes around early 2020 and winter 20/21 but now more in line with expected numbers. Basically the populations vulnerable to influenza now the ones vulnerable to Covid (so make sure they’re vaccinated and avoid contact if contagious please).

The prevalence of long Covid after vaccination is still unknown, however it’s probably safe to say you’re less likely to get symptoms, the symptoms will probably be mild, and the time they persist for measured in weeks rather than months. Here’s a good article to read:

Do vaccines reduce your risk of long COVID? Here's what we know so far - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021-11-21/long-covid-vaccines-what-the-science-says/100631774)

SOPS

23rd Dec 2021, 09:08

Yep…I would hate for fully vaccinated healthy people to get a runny nose and sore throat. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night.

I am lost for words.

Buster Hyman

23rd Dec 2021, 09:26

Labor also agrees with everything the LNP has done on the Chinese policy level.
Like signing up for the CCP's Belt & Road debt trap?

StudentInDebt

23rd Dec 2021, 09:27

Well the vast, vast majority of people in ICUs are unvaccinated.

We’ve now reached a point where Australia’s high vaccination levels will mostly keep ICUs from overflowing. Every leader is now pretty much abandoning those who’ve chosen to not take a vaccine. And Australia has, through want of getting out of lockdowns or mandates, one of the highest vaxxed adult populations.

Those who die of Covid are now matching standard excess mortality, which means they’re not causing a massive increase in death. Check out this graph of UK excess mortality for instance:

Excess Mortality in England (https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiYmUwNmFhMjYtNGZhYS00NDk2LWFlMTAtOTg0OGNhNmFiN GM0IiwidCI6ImVlNGUxNDk5LTRhMzUtNGIyZS1hZDQ3LTVmM2NmOWRlODY2N iIsImMiOjh9)

Spikes around early 2020 and winter 20/21 but now more in line with expected numbers. Basically the populations vulnerable to influenza now the ones vulnerable to Covid (so make sure they’re vaccinated and avoid contact if contagious please).

The prevalence of long Covid after vaccination is still unknown, however it’s probably safe to say you’re less likely to get symptoms, the symptoms will probably be mild, and the time they persist for measured in weeks rather than months. Here’s a good article to read:

Do vaccines reduce your risk of long COVID? Here's what we know so far - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021-11-21/long-covid-vaccines-what-the-science-says/100631774)People are still people, regardless of how misguided or stupid they may be. I for one do not believe this is worthy of minimising the impact of their death or suffering regardless of their impact on my career or family life.

Transition Layer

23rd Dec 2021, 09:30

I am lost for words.
That’s a first

NumptyAussie

23rd Dec 2021, 09:30

Yep…I would hate for fully vaccinated healthy people to get a runny nose and sore throat. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night.

Well, I would not wish ill on anyone.

dr dre

23rd Dec 2021, 09:50

People are still people, regardless of how misguided or stupid they may be. I for one do not believe this is worthy of minimising the impact of their death or suffering regardless of their impact on my career or family life.

In terms of death numbers? Yeah it’s a tragedy, but we lost something like 1000-3000 Australians per year from Influenza and Pneumonia, media age 88, most years and didn’t fuss too much.

By all accounts vaccines will keep the Covid toll much lower than that. There’s not a single serious scientist who thinks Covid will be eliminated, just become endemic, so it will remain but not cause a large public health issue.

Transition Layer

23rd Dec 2021, 10:12

Well, I would not wish ill on anyone.
Nor would I, and that’s not what I said. I was referring to the fact that the sooner WA lives with covid the better, and if that means an out break now they so be it. It can’t remain closed off forever despite what people like SOPS would like. The Premier has already praised the very high vaccination rate and how it puts us in a good position (no mention of his poorly run Health System though).

News from the Imperial College today has Omicron 40-45% less likely to result in hospitalisation, so my comment about runny noses seems pretty appropriate. We aren’t talking about the initial Alpha strain, wiping out hordes of unvaccinated elderly in nursing homes. We are dealing with a milder strain in a highly vaccinated population. Chalk and cheese, so don’t fear the C!

NumptyAussie

23rd Dec 2021, 10:21

Nor would I, and that’s not what I said.

"WA may well be locked down by New Years Eve once this spreads during Xmas gatherings. Bring it on,"

Aye...

morno

23rd Dec 2021, 10:28

what about the people who spend weeks in ICU units, go on to develop long-COVID or die?

Would you prefer to keep hiding under the blankets for years?

It’s inevitable that people will die, but they already do every year with the flu.

SOPS

23rd Dec 2021, 10:28

Nor would I, and that’s not what I said. I was referring to the fact that the sooner WA lives with covid the better, and if that means an out break now they so be it. It can’t remain closed off forever despite what people like SOPS would like. The Premier has already praised the very high vaccination rate and how it puts us in a good position (no mention of his poorly run Health System though).

News from the Imperial College today has Omicron 40-45% less likely to result in hospitalisation, so my comment about runny noses seems pretty appropriate. We aren’t talking about the initial Alpha strain, wiping out hordes of unvaccinated elderly in nursing homes. We are dealing with a milder strain in a highly vaccinated population. Chalk and cheese, so don’t fear the C!

Keep it up mate. I have just nursed my wife through cancer in the last year. She is going well., fully vaxed.. but with a highly compromised immune system. But I’m sure she will just be a statistic in your dream to fly a shiny jet. There are many sides to this story.

Transition Layer

23rd Dec 2021, 10:29

"WA may well be locked down by New Years Eve once this spreads during Xmas gatherings. Bring it on,"

Aye...
See above…spread equals reality for WA and the end of the “blissful bubble”.

Transition Layer

23rd Dec 2021, 10:34

Keep it up mate. I have just nursed my wife through cancer in the last year. She is going well., fully vaxed.. but with a highly compromised immune system. But I’m sure she will just be a statistic in your dream to fly a shiny jet. There are many sides to this story.
Sure “mate”, let’s just stay closed forever to protect your wife and thousands others like her. That will fix the problem!

I wish her all the best but please, the link between your wife’s health and the careers of Pilots is a little tenuous don’t you think?

Ladloy

23rd Dec 2021, 11:11

Like signing up for the CCP's Belt & Road debt trap?
Federal Labor isn't the same as Victorian Labor. The same can be said for state and federal LNP.

JJ 789

23rd Dec 2021, 13:36

Keep it up mate. I have just nursed my wife through cancer in the last year. She is going well., fully vaxed.. but with a highly compromised immune system. But I’m sure she will just be a statistic in your dream to fly a shiny jet. There are many sides to this story.

As unfortunate as your wife's situation is, the vast majority of us shouldn't be punished and be able to get on with living our lives.

Doors Off

23rd Dec 2021, 13:41

Well, so good to read (mostly) some open debate, without clickbait and (in the main) vitriol amongst participants. That is a wonderful thing.

Reading through the comments above, there appears to be a consistent disappointment in the two main coalitions (Green/Labor and LNP). The similarities between said “options” is startling! How do we affect change? Vote Independent I guess.

We live in an amazing country and democratically, we have the opportunity to shape the free money people in the Government, to actually earn said money. Let us consider our votes for real policy next year.

Ladloy

23rd Dec 2021, 20:42

StudentInDebt

23rd Dec 2021, 21:11

Would you prefer to keep hiding under the blankets for years?

It’s inevitable that people will die, but they already do every year with the flu.No, I was writing in response to what I believed to be a rather callous attitude towards what COVID represents for those who don’t just get a cold from it. If it’s inevitable that people die, why do we bother with medicine an public health measures at all?

Icarus2001

23rd Dec 2021, 22:29

Just to be clear the survival rate is somewhere between 98% and 98.7%.
The flu is around 99.5% survival rate.
The aged and the unhealthy are over represented in the fatalities.

43Inches

23rd Dec 2021, 22:52

The flu is around 99.5% survival rate.

Make that 99.9%, CDC data on the 2018-2019 flu season was 28,000 deaths vs 29,000,000 symptomatic cases (asymptotic cases are not tested for in flu). Flu causes 3-4 deaths per 100,000 population in the USA on average.

Covid in the US is running at 98.4% survival rate on all suspected cases including asymptotic. So if you changed that to vs symptomatic cases only the number could easily be 95% or such. Covid is running at 250 deaths per 100,000 population in the US. Most other western nations with high covid have similar data.

PS I use the US as an example and the UK at times as they have rules that dispel a lot of the myths, such as death count from flu or covid must be 'due' to covid, not died with covid etc... It has to be listed as the actual cause of death and not as a sub item.

Also you don't have to be 'unhealthy' to die from covid, any condition that already stresses the heart or lungs will complicate covid recovery. Diabetics and asthmatics are highly susceptible to it, whether from being unfit, or just carrying the condition. Certain diabetics are due to unhealthy lifestyle, a lot are not by choice at all, and ageing is not a choice either, neither is asthma.

SHVC

24th Dec 2021, 02:23

PoppaJo

24th Dec 2021, 02:45

I lost some of my roster purely due low demand, was pretty quiet last week and even this week. Probably are about twice as heavy in capacity vs what is actually needed.

I wouldn’t expect much to change in the next month. If we are cycling months of high cases, the public will continue to be spooked by the fear from politicians and the media.

‘Brisbane on Edge’ when I flicked on the TV today. FFS.

SHVC

24th Dec 2021, 02:53

Sydney is bursting at the seems, the JQ check in is overwhelmed. I guess the punters want out of Sydney. Majority of the flights that were canceled were ML-SY, 12 today in total. I think the appetite to head north will be met with caution for some time. This could be rex jet time to shine, or are they canceling also? no mention of them.

Transition Layer

24th Dec 2021, 03:19

Make that 99.9%, CDC data on the 2018-2019 flu season was 28,000 deaths vs 29,000,000 symptomatic cases (asymptotic cases are not tested for in flu). Flu causes 3-4 deaths per 100,000 population in the USA on average.

Covid in the US is running at 98.4% survival rate on all suspected cases including asymptotic. So if you changed that to vs symptomatic cases only the number could easily be 95% or such. Covid is running at 250 deaths per 100,000 population in the US. Most other western nations with high covid have similar data.

PS I use the US as an example and the UK at times as they have rules that dispel a lot of the myths, such as death count from flu or covid must be 'due' to covid, not died with covid etc... It has to be listed as the actual cause of death and not as a sub item.

Also you don't have to be 'unhealthy' to die from covid, any condition that already stresses the heart or lungs will complicate covid recovery. Diabetics and asthmatics are highly susceptible to it, whether from being unfit, or just carrying the condition. Certain diabetics are due to unhealthy lifestyle, a lot are not by choice at all, and ageing is not a choice either, neither is asthma.
Out of curiosity, how do the flu death total numbers in 2020/2021 compare to previous years?

Icarus2001

24th Dec 2021, 03:55

Also you don't have to be 'unhealthy' to die from covid, any condition that already stresses the heart or lungs will complicate covid recovery. Diabetics and asthmatics are highly susceptible to it,

Which is the very definition of unhealthy is it not!

NumptyAussie

24th Dec 2021, 04:42

[QUOTE=Transition Layer;11160329]Out of curiosity, how do the flu death total numbers in 2020/2021 compare to previous years?[/QUOTE

Have a look for yourself

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release

MickG0105

24th Dec 2021, 04:46

Out of curiosity, how do the flu death total numbers in 2020/2021 compare to previous years?
From the CDC's 2020-2021 Flu Season Summary;
What was the 2020-2021 flu season like?Flu activity was unusually low throughout the 2020-2021 flu season both in the United States and globally, despite high levels of testing. During September 28, 2020–May 22, 2021 in the United States, 1,675 (0.2%) of 818,939 respiratory specimens tested by U.S. clinical laboratories were positive for an influenza virus. The low level of flu activity during this past season contributed to dramatically fewer flu illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths compared with previous flu seasons. For comparison, during the last three seasons before the pandemic, the proportion of respiratory specimens testing positive for influenza peaked between 26.2% and 30.3%. In terms of hospitalizations, the cumulative rate of laboratory-confirmed influenza-associated hospitalizations in the 2020-2021 season was the lowest recorded since this type of data collection began in 2005. For pediatric deaths, CDC received one report of a pediatric flu death in a child during the 2020–2021 flu season. Since flu deaths in children became nationally notifiable in 2004, reported flu deaths in children had previously ranged from a low of 37 (during 2011-2012) to a high of 199 (during 2019-2020).
What are possible explanations for the unusually low flu activity?COVID-19 mitigation measures such as wearing face masks, staying home, hand washing, school closures, reduced travel, increased ventilation of indoor spaces, and physical distancing, likely contributed to the decline in 2020-2021 flu incidence, hospitalizations and deaths. Influenza vaccination may also contributed to reduced flu illness during the 2020–2021 season. Flu vaccine effectiveness estimates for 2020-2021 are not available, but a record number (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/vaccine-supply-distribution.htm) of influenza vaccine doses (193.8 million doses) were distributed in the U.S. during 2020-2021.

You can read the full report here (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/season/faq-flu-season-2020-2021.htm#anchor_1627000307956).

Foxxster

24th Dec 2021, 05:20

Looks like open borders and high demand have taken their toll on JQ the hardest. Multiple flights canceled due COVID isolation requirements leading to a shortage of Pilots, cabin crew and other staff. VA experiencing the same however QF canceling due lack of demand.

about 80 domestic flights cancelled

A Sydney Airport spokeperson said at least 80 domestic flights had been cancelled across all airlines. While Jetstar was forced to make last-minute cancellations, both Qantas and Virgin Australia informed passengers earlier this week that their flights scheduled for Friday had been cancelled.

It is understood that most of Qantas’s cancellations had been made to consolidate services due to lower-than-expected demand during the Christmas period, and that the airline is not suffering from staff shortages.

A Virgin Australia spokesperson said there had been only one unplanned flight cancellation announced on Friday, with passengers booked on other cancelled services for Friday informed earlier this week and most moved on to other flights within an hour of their original booking.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/dec/24/more-than-100-flights-cut-between-sydney-and-melbourne-as-staff-are-sidelined-over-covid

SHVC

24th Dec 2021, 05:30

Jetstar shortages are two mainly the COVID isolation requirements. Multiple spilts, cabin crew and front line staff are having to isolate because of the long turn around for the PCR test which in most cases is 3+ days.

Aussie Bob

24th Dec 2021, 08:58

So much for the vaccine then ....

Doesn't stop you getting it
Doesn't stop you transmitting it
Doesn't negate the need for wearing masks
Doesn't negate the need to get tested
Doesn't negate the need to isolate
Only works for 6 months then you need a booster
In short, an abject failure

All for something 99.9% of healthy people survive.

Merry Christmas PPRUNE 's

megle2

24th Dec 2021, 19:41

Bleat on Bob, as you said in your post “ it works “ so let’s run with it

Merry Christmas

Ex FSO GRIFFO

25th Dec 2021, 09:16

And here I was thinking that the VACCINE may determine the degree of SEVERITY, or lack thereof, of the EFFECT of said virus on the recipient / sufferer....

I don't particularly want to experiment and see how it may affect me / my Grandies.... Had me 2 shots, and willing to back up for the third.

Just sayin'........

Cheers
p.s. I respect ya 'rights'....just keep ya distance from moi.....

PoppaJo

26th Dec 2021, 01:40

SOPS

26th Dec 2021, 01:57

Here we go. SA first to start jumping at shadows and impose restrictions. Not sure when they are planning on ‘living with it’. Queensland better hang on, restrictions normally cost me half my roster right off the bat.

Yes. I was just thinking.. this whole ‘ let’s open up and live with it thing’ is working really well.. isn’t it?

Icarus2001

26th Dec 2021, 04:06

Yes. I was just thinking.. this whole ‘ let’s open up and live with it thing’ is working really well.. isn’t it? I would be very interested to hear your alternative to that? Toot toot.

aussieflyboy

26th Dec 2021, 05:01

I had a Covid test 85 hours ago in NSW and still don’t have a result. I imagine the vast majority of people entering QLD from NSW have not told the truth on the border pass.

A dumb requirement by the useless QLD gov has put a huge strain on NSW Covid testing sites for now no reason at all.

Torukmacto

26th Dec 2021, 06:31

Bring on the omicron parties .

Angle of Attack

26th Dec 2021, 08:42

The whole fing idea of having a PCR test to travel domestically was pretty well known to be a **** idea from the start, just proves that you basically have to be a di$head to be in state politics to start, the fools that couldn’t get into the real federal parliament. I’ve had enough and so has 90% of other people they just lie and do what they like, no one checks you anyway, you need to be able to enforce your **** not just crap on like babies. It’s everywhere F off tests and grow up, QLD will have 8k-15k cases a day within a couple of weeks, live with it!

Angle of Attack

26th Dec 2021, 08:56

Let’s not beat around the bush, Spurrier from SA is way out of her league and has been since the start, she has actually been an immense embarrassment for anyone living in SA, she’s now going back to bull crap restrictions from las year lol, what a completely ineffective leader. Pathetic, totally out of her element. These so called health experts are just a bunch of chums getting jobs from mates, it’s ridiculous.

ozbiggles

26th Dec 2021, 11:04

[QUOTE=Aussie Bob;11160427]So much for the vaccine then ....

Doesn't stop you getting it
Doesn't stop you transmitting it
Doesn't negate the need for wearing masks
Doesn't negate the need to get tested
Doesn't negate the need to isolate
Only works for 6 months then you need a booster
In short, an abject failure

All for something 99.9% of healthy

So after 2 hundred years of vaccine use and two intense years of scrutiny of what vaccines do…that is what you think vaccines were meant to do? Please, keep speaking up for the anti Vaxxers….they are a dying breed.

Radgirl

26th Dec 2021, 11:38

doesnt stop you getting it - no but reduces risk that exposure leads to infection

doesnt stop you transmitting it - we used to agree but data in November shows vaccination halves risk of transmission

doesnt negate the need for wearing masks - nothing to do with science. Masks are a political decision and few politicians have any scientific knowledge. I agree, cloth masks and FFP2 masks have little and possibly no effect. In hospitals all staff and patients should wear FFP3 or N95 masks because hospitals have been a major source of infection

doesnt negate the need for testing - no because vaccines were developed to halve the risk of hospitalisation or death NOT infection, and testing reduced cross infection. Different strands to control. I could be persuaded that with Omicron we should stop testing and mix whereupon the wave would finish in 4-6 weeks with less economic damage. Just need to protect the immunosupressed

Only works for 6 months then you need a booster - long term I suspect it will be annual.....like flu vaccination. Indeed covid 19 may well replace or supplant flu so no change in number of vaccinations

In short an abject failure - if you are referring to the politicians or the modellers or the scare mongers then I agree. If you are talking about the dozen or so poor vaccines then I agree. If you are talking about Uger Sahin who is responsible for the mRNA vaccines (with his own money) then no these vaccines have possibly saved a million lives, will be modified within 90 days for future mutations and the technology is already being developed for oncology. Another million women's lives will be extended this decade due to avoiding death from gynaelogical cancers alone.

43Inches

26th Dec 2021, 21:45

Which is the very definition of unhealthy is it not!

Managed diabetes, asthma, hypertension etc can all exist in a healthy person that may well be more healthy than any of us, ie the management puts the person back to that of a healthy individual who is well aware of their problems. Add a disease that attacks the lungs and heart and combined with these conditions and that same person may become critically ill or die due to complications. More than likely you will know numerous people with diabetes, asthma or hypertension that just don't talk about it, but manage it quietly, the later being very common in anyone over 50. Like mental illnesses few people that have lived with these conditions let everyone know they have it.

Talking about comorbidity like they are some small portion of the community, and somehow most likely that persons choice or lifestyle results shows a lot of ignorance to how prevalent these conditions are and how they manifest.

Please, keep speaking up for the anti Vaxxers….they are a dying breed.
And that is the entire point, they are dying, not the vaccinated, and we are trying to sway their opinions so they don't lead others down the same garden path of delusion and death. It's sad to hear 70 years olds worried about what will happen to them in 20/30 years from a vaccine when the virus will kill you now, or a pregnant woman worried about her unborn child when the vaccine is proven to do no harm at all to pregnancy yet the virus has killed thousands of expectant mothers due to their low immunity, I personally know 2 that passed with child (both early 30s) as a result of not being vaccinated and contracting covid, the science is solid, the data is there in mass numbers, and not being vaccinated is stupider than smoking or drinking during pregnancy.

Now that being said we are moving into a phase of the virus now where its harm rate, of omicron, has dropped significantly, especially for the vaccinated. That doesn't mean you cant still get delta, however the high case numbers are mostly the new, low severity version. You still don't want to catch it, like flu or any other disease, but like Victoria and NSW are showing the case numbers are rising, but hospitalisation and deaths are steady. The need for closed borders has ended, vaccination rates are high, systems are prepared, just wear masks and practice good hygiene and don't hug and kiss strangers and lick windows (or other fixtures) and you should be fine.

BTW I do think the spread difference between NSW and Vic is directly related to mask policy.

WingNut60

26th Dec 2021, 22:29

.......................the need for closed borders has ended, vaccination rates are high.......

Except that. if in my age group bracket, the vaccination that you received is now deemed to be damned near useless and, because of factors unfathomable, you will not be able to get a booster for another month.
That despite the government-run campaign exhorting us to "just go and get a booster".

Whenever the word "just" is used in a promotion you can safely presume that it's a crock.

43Inches

26th Dec 2021, 23:15

Except that. if in my age group bracket, the vaccination that you received is now deemed to be damned near useless and, because of factors unfathomable, you will not be able to get a booster for another month.
That despite the government-run campaign exhorting us to "just go and get a booster".

I'm in the 'at risk' group as well, my folks are well into the high risk age group and so on being well over 60 and some in their 80s. The vaccine does not 'stop working' at 5-6 months, it just starts to reduce in effectiveness, so where it had 90% protection it might drop to 60% protection, the booster just kicks it back up to higher levels. Really just depends on what you consider acceptable protection for the circumstance. If Omicron is as docile as stated then even with 50% protection it probably would stop any severe infection, just the problem if you encounter any remaining delta, which is still circulating in Melbourne.

43Inches

26th Dec 2021, 23:31

I'm not adding this to make fun of the individual, but to highlight that it's still a very dangerous virus to dice with. Part of fighting any virus is to alleviate the stress on the body while it copes naturally, which is what part of the focus of treatment is. This guy thought his strength and fitness would carry him through with some oxygen, but the stress on his body led to cardiac arrest and death. Which is a common way it can end you.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10345933/Anti-vaxxer-kickboxing-champion-refused-acknowledge-Covid-discharged-dies.html

Get vaccinated, and if you need to be in hospital, go there and let them help.

WingNut60

26th Dec 2021, 23:51

I'm in the 'at risk' group as well, my folks are well into the high risk age group and so on being well over 60 and some in their 80s. The vaccine does not 'stop working' at 5-6 months, it just starts to reduce in effectiveness, so where it had 90% protection it might drop to 60% protection, the booster just kicks it back up to higher levels. Really just depends on what you consider acceptable protection for the circumstance. If Omicron is as docile as stated then even with 50% protection(that one depends on who you believe also) it probably would stop any severe infection, just the problem if you encounter any remaining delta, which is still circulating in Melbourne.

Quite a few real & implied "probabilities" in your surmise.
And being, like your parents, in the high risk age group I am not at all impressed by a national directive to "just get vaccinated" when the same government will not allow me to do so.

Atagi 24 Dec

ATAGI recommends bringing forward the minimum interval between the primary course and the booster dose from 5 months to 4 months as soon as practical, noting the holiday period. It is understood that this is achievable from 4 January, although some providers may have flexibility to administer before that time.
In addition, as soon as practicalities allow, ATAGI recommends providing boosters to all eligible adults from a minimum of 3 months following the second dose of the primary course.

.....and the practicality is that the earliest that I can get a booster is 5-1/2 months after my last A-Z shot.

I can't help but suspect (strongly suspect) that either the vaccine, hardware or resources for administering same are simply not available.
But hey, you won't win a federal election by admitting that.

Australopithecus

27th Dec 2021, 00:41

SOPS

27th Dec 2021, 00:45

I heard a Professor of Viral Disease ( or something like that) from UWA interviewed last week. He said that anyone that has had AZ should get a third shot ASAP as AZ is almost useless against omicron.

WingNut60

27th Dec 2021, 01:00

Yeah, the booster program for A-Z recipients is skewed against you. You can try your luck at a chemist. My wife went in and explained that she was a carer and she got the booster 3 weeks before she was due. Of course the next day they changed the recommendation from 5 to 4 months anyway.

You would need to luck onto a pharmacy with vaccine.
All pharmacies & clinics in this area advise that they are not taking bookings until vaccine becomes available and that is not expected until the middle of January.

They can cut the recommendation to 3 days and it still won't get me a booster before 5-1/2 months.

C441

27th Dec 2021, 01:30

If you're in Brissy and you're now eligible for a booster, shop around. I previously had an appointment for 5 months and a day after 2nd dose but was able to move that forward to Jan 4th (2 weeks earlier and closer to home) with a little search on Hotdoc. (https://www.hotdoc.com.au)

Jester64

27th Dec 2021, 01:51

Australopithecus

27th Dec 2021, 01:54

You would need to luck onto a pharmacy with vaccine.
All pharmacies & clinics in this area advise that they are not taking bookings until vaccine becomes available and that is not expected until the middle of January.

They can cut the recommendation to 3 days and it still won't get me a booster before 5-1/2 months.

Why isn’t it available now? Some local chemists here have Moderna, and I got a Pfizer booster last week at a local clinic.

WingNut60

27th Dec 2021, 02:22

Why isn’t it available now? Some local chemists here have Moderna, and I got a Pfizer booster last week at a local clinic.
Bl..dy good question. If you have an answer I'll be keen to hear it.

SOPS

27th Dec 2021, 02:28

Useless as in preventing severe illness, or useless as in preventing infection?

Actually.. that is a very good question.

theheadmaster

27th Dec 2021, 05:33

Bl..dy good question. If you have an answer I'll be keen to hear it.

I happened to be listening to the news when they announced that you could get a booster 5 months after initial vaccination course. As luck would have it, the announcement was made 5 months after my initial course, so I booked immediately and had my booster done at the local chemist a week later. The pharmacist told me they were surprised by the announcement, as it happened immediately AFTER chemists had to put in their vaccine order. She told me that I was lucky I booked straight away, as they were expecting demand would outstrip supply as they were unable to amend their order after the changed time frame announcement. Make of that what you will, being third hand information, but it appears consistent with people here not being able to get boosters this month.

Jester64

27th Dec 2021, 09:39

Actually.. that is a very good question.

It's the kind of question you should be asking yourself before swallowing the crap the mainstream media feeds you and especially before regurgitating the same misleading statement to others

SOPS

27th Dec 2021, 10:38

It's the kind of question you should be asking yourself before swallowing the crap the mainstream media feeds you and especially before regurgitating the same misleading statement to others

And your information comes from where? Information from YouTube?

Jester64

27th Dec 2021, 10:41

And your information comes from where? Information from YouTube?

I can assure you I use YouTube for more entertaining purposes

SOPS

27th Dec 2021, 11:03

I can assure you I use YouTube for more entertaining purposes

So please inform us of what you know. And who told you what you know. My Doctor rang me today to tell me to get my third shot in two weeks.. as I have had AZ. I assume she is telling me crap, because she listens to MSM?

Jester64

27th Dec 2021, 11:22

WTF are you on about?? I have not provided this forum any information or opinion regarding covid or the vaccine. You however provided us with a very significant and possibly misleading statement regarding the vaccine and Omicron, which I questioned you on. You then admitted to not knowing the answer. So I’m calling you out on spreading possible misinformation.

Connie Wings

29th Dec 2021, 10:52

Permits permits permits! As there is a lot of focus on the world 1 male tennis player refusing to prove vaccination to be able to play in the slam in Melbourne, he has already been registered to play. I would of thought given the current rules of entry for international arrivals he would be sent to HQ for 14 days if he does not provide evidence, there fore not to much of an issue at state level unless he does go to HQ and still try’s to compete. How would victorians feel if DA made an exemption for NJ to play!

Well, I gess this pandemia has shown worldwide that simply we are all the same, so far. It seems to me that selfish attitudes do not fit in this world anymore, and getting vaccinated is a humanitarian reason and has made the difference, saving lives. My conclusion is that no exemption should take place, in respect to Australians, as well as wordlwide people. Talking about athletes, they should be the examples so far, with good attitudes, otherwise think about lockdowns as a consequence of new COVID waves, which also affects their activities. Let's say, a very good example is RF, full of titles inside and also outside the courts.

Troo believer

29th Dec 2021, 11:06

After much fanfare and backslapping, Qantas will no longer operate to London from early January. Emirates code share tickets only. Loads have obviously plummeted on the back of the UK’s current infection explosion, crushing any demand for travel to London.

goodonyamate

29th Dec 2021, 11:41

Chris2303

29th Dec 2021, 19:06

goodonyamate

29th Dec 2021, 19:37

QF1 is still showing as operating 27JAN

I also checked a number of dates, which showed flights still operating. They are definitely cutting the frequency, however I dont think stopping altogether. I thought maybe 3 days a week or something. Not great for the crew now every port is classed as a D

Chris2303

29th Dec 2021, 20:39

I thought maybe 3 days a week or something.

And in fact that's what they announced recently

Transition Layer

30th Dec 2021, 05:44

I also checked a number of dates, which showed flights still operating. They are definitely cutting the frequency, however I dont think stopping altogether. I thought maybe 3 days a week or something. Not great for the crew now every port is classed as a D
The fairly significant change to Tier D for all ports has been nicely slipped into the manual without any explanation, while the managers enjoy their Christmas break. Classic Qantas :rolleyes:

aussieflyboy

30th Dec 2021, 08:21

Are Qantas and Virgin paying for the RAT kits for domestic staff overnighting at different ports?

compressor stall

30th Dec 2021, 10:24

More importantly it sounds like close contacts causing a whole aircraft to isolate is a thing of the past (except WA). That’s got to give a lot of hope to the travel industry.

SOPS

30th Dec 2021, 10:32

More importantly it sounds like close contacts causing a whole aircraft to isolate is a thing of the past (except WA). That’s got to give a lot of hope to the travel industry.

Except… when a whole lot of people are sick.. because of these “wonderful” new laws … who will be on the aircraft and going on holidays ?

Icarus2001

30th Dec 2021, 10:37

Except… when a whole lot of people are sick.. because of these “wonderful” new laws … who will be on the aircraft and going on holidays ? Most people will have a cold for about a week. I know two people who have had it, vaxxed, a bad cold they said.

Chad Gates

30th Dec 2021, 11:06

turbantime

30th Dec 2021, 11:36

Most people will have a cold for about a week. I know two people who have had it, vaxxed, a bad cold they said.
Friends of ours had a headache for 2-3 days with no other symptoms (fully vaxxed). The bedwetters like SOPS have had their time in the sun; time to go back to hiding in a cave.

Fonz121

30th Dec 2021, 12:52

The fairly significant change to Tier D for all ports has been nicely slipped into the manual without any explanation, while the managers enjoy their Christmas break. Classic Qantas :rolleyes:

If this is an attempt to stem the loss of crew I think they will find it achieves the opposite. 14 day trips contained in a hotel room? No thanks.

Clare Prop

30th Dec 2021, 14:11

Just for those outside WA who actually care what we think (I know, I’m certain nobody does), every mate I’ve spoken to over the festive season, all of whom are not in the aviation industry say “let it rip, it’s time”. SOPS is now very much in the minority. We are all looking forward to reconnecting.

Really? Your mates must be very blessed, that they can afford to be put into isolation for 14 days with no income, perhaps repeatedly, and with no compensation. Because the problem now isn't the disease, it is the fact that even the triple vaxxed are going to be forced out of the workforce if they are within cooee of a coughing backpacker.

I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.

goodonyamate

30th Dec 2021, 17:47

The fairly significant change to Tier D for all ports has been nicely slipped into the manual without any explanation, while the managers enjoy their Christmas break. Classic Qantas :rolleyes:

all reverting to Tier C 👍🏻

I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.

very much looking forward to seeing who state daddy blames when it all turns to **** over there. The picture he paints about ‘the east’ is not quite accurate. Has he spent a single dollar on extra beds in hospitals etc? It’s amusing. I’ll give Maogowan one thing, he’s better at marketing than Scotty from marketing! Come feb 5th I guess you and SOP’s will be running in circles with steam coming out of your ears. Granted, perhaps the last 2 years have been relatively ‘normal’ for you over there, I wouldn’t know, I’d rather be amongst ‘the chaos in the east’ than the plethora of meth heads I used to come across in Perth city, but all you’ve done is kick the can down the road. Bought some time to prep your health system. But all he’s done is have press conferences.

Transition Layer

30th Dec 2021, 18:39

Really? Your mates must be very blessed, that they can afford to be put into isolation for 14 days with no income, perhaps repeatedly, and with no compensation. Because the problem now isn't the disease, it is the fact that even the triple vaxxed are going to be forced out of the workforce if they are within cooee of a coughing backpacker.

I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.

Did you even listen to what happened today with the announcement from ScoMo? 14 days is a thing of the past.

You and SOPS should build a big house with a moat and ride this out there. The rest of us will catch it in the next few months and live happily ever after. Even your hero Lord McGowan said today that we can’t keep the borders closed forever. Finally I agree with him on something! February 5 will happen whether you like it or not.

P.S. We must move in very different circles. Friends of mine outside aviation realise the time has come to open. McGowan’s fear mongering is wearing thin.

Maggie Island

30th Dec 2021, 19:27

Australopithecus

30th Dec 2021, 20:00

As a West Australian I don’t trust the Emperor to honour that 5 Feb date, but do agree that he’ll have to capitulate sooner rather than later. I have a feeling the Iron Ore price won’t be particularly helpful to us this year either. Whoever wins federal government is in for an unpleasant mess.

Yesterday I was wondering how soon we can expect to see the GST start to creep up to 20%. My guess is within a year of the election.

Fonz121

30th Dec 2021, 20:47

all reverting to Tier C 👍🏻

Where was this seen or heard?

morno

30th Dec 2021, 21:20

Really? Your mates must be very blessed, that they can afford to be put into isolation for 14 days with no income, perhaps repeatedly, and with no compensation. Because the problem now isn't the disease, it is the fact that even the triple vaxxed are going to be forced out of the workforce if they are within cooee of a coughing backpacker.

I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.

Mate it’s a lot harder to be considered a close contact anymore (WA excluded right at this very moment, but your emperor has even agreed with the new definition in principle), so the chances of ending up in 7 (what most of the country are reverting to for the vaccinated) days quarantine is much less.

How much longer would you like to hide under the bed covers for?

Tucknroll

30th Dec 2021, 21:52

rattman

30th Dec 2021, 21:55

dr dre

30th Dec 2021, 22:56

So NSW are at 21,151 cases today it’s nearly double yesterday’s figure and worse than the worst case predictions. Those are only the people who wanted, or were able to get tested. Our healthcare system is under stress and can’t handle the exponential increase in case numbers, the hospital and lab workers are at breaking point already and we’ve only just begin this wave. Industry bodies are warning of collapse. Testing centres are closing because labs can’t handle the testing load.

Open up by all means, but anyone who is welcoming this flood is insane.

NSW ICU Beds tota (https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/hospitals-prepare-emergency-plans-for-icu-operations-to-reach-overwhelming-status-20210906-p58p9g.html)l: 1550

Estimated baseline non Covid ICU beds occupied (https://www.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-09/Intensive_Care_Capacity.pdf) at any one time: 387

September peak (https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-hospitalised/nsw) at 50% fully vaxxed: 242 (meaning all occupied ICU beds at 41% of max capacity)

Now: 69 ICU beds occupied, meaning total occupied ICU beds at 29% of capacity.

Now can you please define "breaking point" and "collapse" because that to me seems to be very far away from "collapse".

This is backed up by Prof Peter Collignon (he says NSW can get up to 2000 ICU beds if needed):

Pandemic is now 'endemic' on Australia's east coast - ABC PM (https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/pm/pandemic-is-now-endemic-on-australias-east-coast/13691696)

dr dre

30th Dec 2021, 23:04

I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

I'm in WA and not a single person I've spoken to has said that. I've had medical professionals who have told me they're desperate to start traveling again. And Police sick of manning border checkpoints as glorified customs and wanting to get back on the street and hunt real crooks.

Poll also showing 2/3rds of West Aussies want to open Feb 5 or sooner so that's the majority opinion:

WA border: West Aussies keen to reopen on February 5 - if not sooner (https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/coronavirus/wa-border-west-aussies-keen-to-reopen-on-february-5-if-not-sooner---despite-covid-explosion-in-nsw-vic-c-5039379)

Even McGowan yesterday was talking tougher internal restrictions in masks and vaccine passports because of surging cases post Feb 5 reopening, not one hint dropped that the border opening would be cancelled.

Really? Your mates must be very blessed, that they can afford to be put into isolation for 14 days with no income, perhaps repeatedly, and with no compensation.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.

McGowan also confirmed WA would move to the looser definition of close contact and shorter isolation periods after the opening as cases increase.

Chad Gates

31st Dec 2021, 00:00

Really? Your mates must be very blessed, that they can afford to be put into isolation for 14 days with no income, perhaps repeatedly, and with no compensation. Because the problem now isn't the disease, it is the fact that even the triple vaxxed are going to be forced out of the workforce if they are within cooee of a coughing backpacker.

I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.

Yes, really. Most of them, but not all, are in the mining industry in some capacity. One is the divisional director of a massive, and I mean massive, engineering company in Perth, and he is the most adamant it’s time to move on. They are not frightened at all. And I would also add, he was by far (irritatingly so) the biggest supported of the border policies 12 months ago. Things have moved on. If you are scared, live in your bedroom, it’s no skin off my nose.
More than ever I feel heartened by what I’m hearing in the community. Your friends in the medical fraternity seem to be the only group against it. I guess that’s because it will it increase their workload. That sucks, but that’s life.

dr dre

31st Dec 2021, 00:11

\
More than ever I feel heartened by what I’m hearing in the community. Your friends in the medical fraternity seem to be the only group against it. I guess that’s because it will it increase their workload. That sucks, but that’s life.

Actually groups like the AMA are against it because it'll decrease their workload, not increase it. The more hospital beds are filled up with Covid patients mean the less money made from elective surgeries, especially in the private sector. That's where the cash is earned, not monitoring patients in an ICU, mostly done by a nurse. It's pure self interest for these doctors, so watch out for a lot of these statements by groups like the AMA because it's purely their financial motivations at play, not any concern for public health. They are the doctor's union after all.

To show you how little the AMA is "concerned" about public health they also opposed the use of pharmacists in administering Covid vaccines (https://www.ama.com.au/ama-rounds/12-february-2021/articles/gps-not-pharmacists-best-placed-vaccine-rollout), all vaccines in fact. That would mean less business for GP clinics, and if they had gotten their way our vaccine rollout would've been further delayed and more people probably would have died.

Jester64

31st Dec 2021, 00:32

Except… when a whole lot of people are sick.. because of these “wonderful” new laws … who will be on the aircraft and going on holidays ?

By ‘a whole lot’, do you mean the 0.1% of REPORTED infections that experience anything other than mild or no symptoms?

Chronic Snoozer

31st Dec 2021, 02:08

I'm in WA and not a single person I've spoken to has said that. To be clear, how many people is that?

IPoll also showing 2/3rds of West Aussies want to open Feb 5 or sooner so that's the majority opinion:

WA border: West Aussies keen to reopen on February 5 - if not sooner (https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/coronavirus/wa-border-west-aussies-keen-to-reopen-on-february-5-if-not-sooner---despite-covid-explosion-in-nsw-vic-c-5039379)

Poll published on 22nd Dec, prior to the shenanigans with close contact definitions, RAT shortages, PCR test delays and the like and when the 7 day rolling average of cases was likely much less than today. Do the survey today and see what the result is. I love these scientific surveys - 811 people, not exactly ABS standard is it? And from marketers.

Credit where credit is due, the decision to set Feb 5 as the opening date, although perhaps maligned, has proven to be prudent.

PoppaJo

31st Dec 2021, 09:38

43Inches

31st Dec 2021, 09:54

By ‘a whole lot’, do you mean the 0.1% of REPORTED infections that experience anything other than mild or no symptoms?

Not sure what world you live in but flight crew can't operate with a cold let alone covid, so if crew test positive for covid they must ground themselves as required by their medical issue and if it lasts more than 7 days a DAME has to re-certify them before they can fly again. That means if the infections do spread significantly, as we have already seen numerous cancellations will occur from crew shortages. This will apply to a large number of industries, this has already occurred in the UK, USA and Europe. In the US and UK hospital staff and doctors are now reluctant to come in on overtime as they are over worked and tired causing a lot of staffing issues. There is a big difference between being a possible contact and isolating from work for a day or so until tested and testing positive and having to wait out until negative test, which could be however long. I cant see any world where you would be allowed to operate as flight crew or even travel while knowingly carrying a contagious virus.

Thirsty

31st Dec 2021, 10:27

I still can’t believe we are talking about borders, with vaccine rates the envy of the world.

We need to start talking out how we are about to very soon, exit the pandemic, with the opportunity to be the first in the world. No Social distancing, No PCRs, no masks, No QR. If you feel like your about to drop dead, you go to the Emergency. If you feel like you have a cold, you stay at home and burn sick leave.

Boosters done by May. We need to spend the May to July quarter transitioning away, and August onwards we need to drop every, single, bloody thing.
Given the response and changes in the last week in official circles, I would venture the pandemic is officially now over in Australia. Finished. Done. Milestones achieved.
Those that were going to be vaccinated have been done so. Those that have successfully avoided vaccination - you are on your own. They don't care any more. Officialdom have been promised a total cure by the vaccine companies last year, they pushed the vaccines while minimising spread, and along comes Omicron and makes the whole exercise rather obsolete. No more booster shots. No more certificates. No more QR codes. No more contact tracing. No more isolation. No more lockdowns. No more masks. Just get the awful four day weak flu with horrid symptoms, get over it, and life goes on! Once we all have the antibodies (naturally, or vaccine induced), the pandemic is over. The virus will run out of hosts to infect, and will die a swift death. Those that will die from it, tough luck. We will keep some hospital beds put aside for you, but we have lost interest.
Just in time for second anniversary.
Other nations are on different timescales on the very same pattern. Their bell curve is different shaped, and they are at different phases of it. Omicron rages and dominates, pushing out all others.

Is that the way you see it proceeding in the New Year?

Jester64

31st Dec 2021, 11:20

Not sure what world you live in but flight crew can't operate with a cold let alone covid, so if crew test positive for covid they must ground themselves as required by their medical issue and if it lasts more than 7 days a DAME has to re-certify them before they can fly again. That means if the infections do spread significantly, as we have already seen numerous cancellations will occur from crew shortages. This will apply to a large number of industries, this has already occurred in the UK, USA and Europe. In the US and UK hospital staff and doctors are now reluctant to come in on overtime as they are over worked and tired causing a lot of staffing issues. There is a big difference between being a possible contact and isolating from work for a day or so until tested and testing positive and having to wait out until negative test, which could be however long. I cant see any world where you would be allowed to operate as flight crew or even travel while knowingly carrying a contagious virus.

My comment was in response to a previous comment of “a whole lotta people gonna get sick”, not ‘a whole lotta crew gonna get infected’.

t_cas

1st Jan 2022, 05:37

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/joe-hildebrand-national-cabinet-lies-are-coming-home-to-roost-with-omicron/news-story/6e37caf4cfc5ae218082f69f3ddc3c32

Torukmacto

1st Jan 2022, 06:24

If we ever get rid of the 3 tier Australian system and it’s the states that go their demise will be traced back to this pandemic .

Ladloy

1st Jan 2022, 06:35

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/joe-hildebrand-national-cabinet-lies-are-coming-home-to-roost-with-omicron/news-story/6e37caf4cfc5ae218082f69f3ddc3c32
If we did this 6 months ago we would have a much higher death rate. Hildebrand is a first class flog.

AerialPerspective

1st Jan 2022, 13:30

If we did this 6 months ago we would have a much higher death rate. Hildebrand is a first class flog.

Agreed. Stating prior to an interview on Studio 10 with Rosie Batty, he said that "women too scared to report child abuse have no excuse".

Of course, as is usual with his species, once they get called out for making a sh-tty comment, they come out and apologise and society moves on. Well, it shouldn't. He opened his mouth, he formed the words in his head, then he spoke them. He's a sensationalist and was looking for a bite. Apologising is just saying "I shouldn't have said it because now I'm worried I'll get sacked". There's no remorse at all.

I put him in the same category as that troglodyte that was running the ACL - who said "If SSM becomes law, it will lead to the sort of things that happened in Germany in 1933".

One thing I despise about society these days is that people who make disgusting comments like that, while entitled to their opinion, should not be allowed to just apologise and move on. The apology is just BS, the comment was made while fully conscious and in possession of what is presumably a reasonably functioning brain. Happily in the latter case, he left ACL and launched a political career which died before it started. Good. Wish someone would end Hilderbrand's career. Who ARE these people anyway?? What qualification of life do they have to pontificate to others??

Not the first time this moron has opened his mouth and spewed utter crap.

minigundiplomat

1st Jan 2022, 16:11

From first hand experience Omicron is a bad cold. Time to restart the world

CaptCloudbuster

1st Jan 2022, 21:45

From first hand experience Omicron is a bad cold. Time to restart the world

Based on a sample size of one:rolleyes:

Icarus2001

1st Jan 2022, 22:12

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/12/28/omicron-less-severe-but-still-dangerous

https://www.health.gov.au/health-alerts/covid-19/symptoms-and-variants/omicron

Despite the media frothing at the mouth with the arrival of Omicron, forecasting the end of life as we know it, there has been plenty of studies now that show Omicron is less virulent but more easily transmissbale.

The former deputy CHO for Australia spoke about it early on and suggested it be allowed to spread as the dominant strain as it is more mild than Delta.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/dr-nick-coatsworths-omicron-fury/news-story/dde0189168861a0aa43c7b431eca49da

twentyelevens

2nd Jan 2022, 00:17

One thing I despise about society these days is that people who make disgusting comments like that, while entitled to their opinion, should not be allowed to just apologise and move on. The apology is just BS, the comment was made while fully conscious and in possession of what is presumably a reasonably functioning brain. Happily in the latter case, he left ACL and launched a political career which died before it started. Good. Wish someone would end Hilderbrand's career. Who ARE these people anyway??

What qualification of life do they have to pontificate to others??.

What qualifications do you have that has allowed you to pontificate to others through some 230 pages of this Karens thread AP?

Ladloy

2nd Jan 2022, 00:33

Has there been any indication by NSW health as to what hospital bed capacity may be? Hospitalisations tend to lag by a week or two behind onset.

Icarus2001

2nd Jan 2022, 00:37

One thing I despise about society these days is that people who make disgusting comments like that, while entitled to their opinion, should not be allowed to just apologise and move on.

The challenge is WHO gets to decide what is a disgusting comment?

There is a small but vocal group of people who will howl you down if you suggest soneone with a penis is a man or only women menstruate.

SOPS

2nd Jan 2022, 02:04

From first hand experience Omicron is a bad cold. Time to restart the world

The thousand people in hospital in NSW may disagree with you.

Icarus2001

2nd Jan 2022, 02:34

SOPS when someone who is very sick or is perhaps eighty years old and being supported by multiple medications, gets a cold, they are often sent to hospital.
I asked above but you sped past like a train past closed points...
What would you do with the W.A. border?

Ladloy

2nd Jan 2022, 03:40

Jester64

2nd Jan 2022, 03:42

The thousand people in hospital in NSW may disagree with you.

Thousands of people in hospital due to contagious respiratory viruses is nothing new. In 2019 Australia had over 4,000 admitted to hospital in one winter flu season.

At time of writing, 188,723 active cases (true case count likely to be much higher), with just 48 on ventilators Australia wide.

43Inches

2nd Jan 2022, 04:29

In 2019 Australia had over 4,000 admitted to hospital in one winter flu season.

While I agree Omicron is shaping up to be less severe, that is 4000 admissions over a season or year, not at one time. Most of which are overnights for observation not long stays. The problem is the surge in cases is definitely leading to a responding increase in hospitalisations, even if O is 10 times less severe than D it's spreading at 100 times the rate, so overall more will require hospital and deaths are to come. Again when dealing with large numbers in the population game statistics just take over and numbers spit out of the grinder. Also for most of Australia the tap is jammed open now, there's no more control over the numbers at all so we are going to deal with it in whatever way it chooses now, not how we choose.

Jester64

2nd Jan 2022, 04:49

While I agree Omicron is shaping up to be less severe, that is 4000 admissions over a season or year, not at one time. Most of which are overnights for observation not long stays. The problem is the surge in cases is definitely leading to a responding increase in hospitalisations, even if O is 10 times less severe than D it's spreading at 100 times the rate, so overall more will require hospital and deaths are to come. Again when dealing with large numbers in the population game statistics just take over and numbers spit out of the grinder. Also for most of Australia the tap is jammed open now, there's no more control over the numbers at all so we are going to deal with it in whatever way it chooses now, not how we choose.

SA premier:

"We see a lot of admissions but also a lot of people are leaving hospital on a daily basis after their conditions have stabilised”.

Cases are going to increase, deaths are going to happen. Keeping the border closed does more harm than what 48 people on ventilators per 188,000 reported cases does. Come 5th Feb the bedwetters and bootlickers in Western Australia are in for a rude awakening.

turbantime

2nd Jan 2022, 06:31

The thousand people in hospital in NSW may disagree with you.
I have family members that work in various Sydney hospitals. This is very different to the delta wave.

They swab every single person that is being admitted. This inevitably leads to an increase in numbers as many are asymptomatic and are there for other ailments. On top of that, many are anxious after testing positive, and as one family member puts it: “they add sauce to their story, so we have no option but to admit them.” Obviously there are some that do require treatment for Covid but are not hooked up to high flow oxygen etc. Their stay is also 24-48 hours on average now.

While I agree that we have to careful not to overwhelm the system based purely on sheer numbers, this ‘wave’ is different and that’s coming from people working in the emergency departments.

Jester64

2nd Jan 2022, 06:48

My wife has two cousins working in the system also, 1 doctor, 1 nurse. What they’ve said is the majority of cases are discharged within one to two days and don’t require ICU / ventilation. He said / she said of course, but the numbers speak for themselves….2000 current covid hospitalisations with 2.5% of this 2000 requiring ventilation. And the majority of that 2.5% are unvaccinated. What I haven’t seen data on is how many of the ICU patients deliberately chose not to vaccinate themselves?

Interestingly what the nurse said is that they can’t seem to cope with the influx of mentally ill patients they are presented with (especially in Melbourne), and this is a direct result of the lockdowns in 2021 according to Kids Helpline and Beyond Blue etc.

43Inches

2nd Jan 2022, 07:38

Interestingly what the nurse said is that they can’t seem to cope with the influx of mentally ill patients they are presented with (especially in Melbourne), and this is a direct result of the lockdowns in 2021 according to Kids Helpline and Beyond Blue etc.

Emergency mental health issues are an issue all the time for the major city hospitals, it's one of the departments that's massively understaffed. As for increases in people seeking mental health help there is two sides to this, some of it is lockdown related, but a big chunk are those now finding the time to deal with these issues while on lockdown and seeking help. I've seen some pretty big blowups of mental health cases trying to get prescription meds off general staff, who can't do anything until a qualified doctor can see the history. Usually ends up with security staff and a generally bad day for all involved. Remembering that an ED visit by a mentally ill patient is usually when they have been off meds for some time, this ain't someone having a blue moment cause they can't see the girlfriend, more likely shouting and trying to kill things or themselves. There may also be a lot of cases of drug dependent cases that cant get their normal supply of whatever going off the rails. One thing that was suprising is that suicide rates fell during all lockdowns, seems worklife and financial pressures are worse than lockdown, who would've thought.

Jester64

2nd Jan 2022, 09:32

Emergency mental health issues are an issue all the time for the major city hospitals, it's one of the departments that's massively understaffed. As for increases in people seeking mental health help there is two sides to this, some of it is lockdown related, but a big chunk are those now finding the time to deal with these issues while on lockdown and seeking help. I've seen some pretty big blowups of mental health cases trying to get prescription meds off general staff, who can't do anything until a qualified doctor can see the history. Usually ends up with security staff and a generally bad day for all involved. Remembering that an ED visit by a mentally ill patient is usually when they have been off meds for some time, this ain't someone having a blue moment cause they can't see the girlfriend, more likely shouting and trying to kill things or themselves. There may also be a lot of cases of drug dependent cases that cant get their normal supply of whatever going off the rails. One thing that was suprising is that suicide rates fell during all lockdowns, seems worklife and financial pressures are worse than lockdown, who would've thought.

I often see that line thrown around on social media about how suicide rates are down, but the only data I could find was referring to the statistics on 2020. 2021 was a much different story for Melbourne, and the press reports have come out from various organisations saying that admissions to ED due self harm have sky rocketed in 2021, especially from the adolescent demographic. If you have a link about the suicide rate for 2021 please share it. It’s worthy to note that attempted suicide and ED admissions is something that whilst not resulting in suicide, it’s still an event which can be life altering, and takes up resources in an already stretched system.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/mental-health/attempted-suicide-rates-among-victorian-teenagers-soar-by-184-per-cent-in-past-six-months-kids-helpline-reveals/news-story/db9d5136075a7c7edf4750a0391b0653%3famp

minigundiplomat

2nd Jan 2022, 10:02

Based on a sample size of one:rolleyes:

I’m currently in the UK and just about everyone I know has had it, or has it. Almost 200k cases a day and deaths are down 30+% but feel free to lock yourselves up again.

43Inches

2nd Jan 2022, 10:26

I often see that line thrown around on social media about how suicide rates are down, but the only data I could find was referring to the statistics on 2020. 2021 was a much different story for Melbourne, and the press reports have come out from various organisations saying that admissions to ED due self harm have sky rocketed in 2021, especially from the adolescent demographic.

https://www.aihw.gov.au/suicide-self-harm-monitoring/data/suspected-deaths-by-suicide/data-from-suicide-registers

That's the data for Victoria which is up to date to September, there is a spike there, but generally the year is down. Also have to remember these were attempts that were successful. In 2020 there is the usual spike before the lockdowns even started, just the post christmas malladies which has us all returning to reality after party season. But overall the general consensus is that while calls for assistance were up, actual attempts at suicide were no more than usual. Its also key to remember that peaks/troughs could be due to group suicides etc, not just individuals as what happened in Melbourne at the start of 2021 where a group of school friends decided to go together.

There is some interesting data there though, looks like NSW was much more affected than Victoria and QLD in the attendances. Vic had a slight decline from 20-21 and NSW had a sharp rise and then decline. Despite having much shorter lockdowns and less impact on daily life. If you take out the sharp rises in NSW and Vic pre lockdowns it really is level pegging.

I'm in no way saying lockdown was easy on people, but most people are mentaly tough, it takes a lot to knock a person down to that level and usually requires some sort of local environmental push and lack of intervention. For instance its a classic sociopathic trait to claim you are going to kill your self for attention to get their way, teenagers often also resort to this with no actual intention, so this can answer in part some increases in calls for help. And yes a lot are real and serious, who knows but their psyche professionals.

Jester64

2nd Jan 2022, 10:51

But overall the general consensus is that while calls for assistance were up, actual attempts at suicide were no more than usual.

Not according to Kids Helpline for Victorian teenagers. This is the headline for the article I linked, actual numbers can be found within the article: Attempted suicide rates among Victorian teenagers soar by 184 per cent in past six months, Kids Helpline reveals

43Inches

2nd Jan 2022, 10:56

One is a sensationalised news article, the one I provided is actual records and statistical data from Coroners, ambulance attendances etc.. 184% is way off the charts and in no way is anywhere near the data for both actual deaths and callouts for Victoria, which over the Pandemic has only recorded a increase of 1-2% for calls for suicidal intentions and a reduction in actual attempts. So either the ambulance and coroners are fudging data or the data used for the news article has misunderstood something.

Telecall help lines are also a huge magnet for APDs suffers to target to push an agenda without any attendance of the situation to verify an actual event. Where ambulance attends and records actual signs and such, and then issues a bill...If they are too late, especially children will go to the coroner.

Kids help line and Beyond blue and the rest all form a critical service for first point of contact, unfortunately a lot of calls still are spurious trouble makers. I'm sure if any of the operators thought it was seriously going to self harm then an ambulance will be called.

Jester64

2nd Jan 2022, 10:59

I get that, but as you said there is a difference between attempted suicide and successful suicide. What Kids Helpline is referring to is the increase in attempted suicide amongst that particular demographic.

MickG0105

2nd Jan 2022, 11:10

Not according to Kids Helpline for Victorian teenagers. This is the headline for the article I linked, actual numbers can be found within the article:Attempted suicide rates among Victorian teenagers soar by 184 per cent in past six months, Kids Helpline reveals
The problems with that particular report were addressed six months ago - https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen-286.html#post11075660

43Inches

2nd Jan 2022, 11:11

Sorry I should have said at the bottom of the data page I provided there is a next page selection where you can view ambulance call-out for ideation/attempts and actual self harm.

I have no doubt some will be casualties of these measures, others not, but the statistical line is basically no different and like we watch hospitalisations for Covid for how bad it is, these stats are also used by those in charge to assess lock down measures etc.... We will probably never know the reasons of each, its a sensitive topic for all involved, unless of course there is some sort of inquiry. NSW and Victorias different approach to lock-downs may be directly down to these figures.

MickG0105

2nd Jan 2022, 13:15

Telecall help lines are also a huge magnet for APDs suffers to target to push an agenda without any attendance of the situation to verify an actual event.

What are trying to say here?

Kids help line and Beyond blue and the rest all form a critical service for first point of contact, unfortunately a lot of calls still are spurious trouble makers.
... a lot of calls still are spurious trouble makers. ??!! You're saying this based on what?

43Inches

2nd Jan 2022, 20:32

... a lot of calls still are spurious trouble makers. ??!! You're saying this based on what?

They don't publish the data anymore as highlighting it causes more instances and copycats. Back a number of years ago KHL was going through some issues of needing more funding but some sources were saying it had as much as 1 in 3 calls were hoaxes. Point that came out was while there are a lot of crank calls, 2/3rds or more of calls were serious and real, meaning they do provide an essential first point of call for real sufferers.

Again as I said earlier these lines provide an essential service, but going off call rates to them without actual confirmation data that all cases are real is difficult to relate. I can imagine the lockdowns also were conducive to a lot of bored kids and mental cases willing to flood these lines with mess for cheap kicks. With 000 the hoaxes are logged with severe penalties, yet they still occur at regular intervals, the data from Ambulance and Police attendance to a scene or event is well documented so reliable information to gather rates from.

You have to also remember that KHL 'Duty of care interventions' are just the information being passed onto Ambulance and Police for further investigation and possible attendance, then it will obviously be added to those services data.

turbantime

2nd Jan 2022, 22:33

WingNut60

2nd Jan 2022, 23:16

One for you SOPS, as alluded to in my post.
https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/up-to-half-of-nsw-covid-hospital-patients-went-in-for-something-totally-different-and-were-positive-in-routine-testing/news-story/603db6feed20422b3e8b57fd0e159fdb
I am sure that there is an element of truth in this however I'd like to see some verified numbers rather than generalisations.

"Up to half" is like the current ad on TV that says "up to 100% ..........."
Both actually mean "some" unless there are real numbers to back the claim.
Mr Hazzard has an agenda to push.

MickG0105

2nd Jan 2022, 23:40

They don't publish the data anymore as highlighting it causes more instances and copycats. Back a number of years ago KHL was going through some issues of needing more funding but some sources were saying it had as much as 1 in 3 calls were hoaxes. Point that came out was while there are a lot of crank calls, 2/3rds or more of calls were serious and real, meaning they do provide an essential first point of call for real sufferers.

Again as I said earlier these lines provide an essential service, but going off call rates to them without actual confirmation data that all cases are real is difficult to relate. I can imagine the lockdowns also were conducive to a lot of bored kids and mental cases willing to flood these lines with mess for cheap kicks. With 000 the hoaxes are logged with severe penalties, yet they still occur at regular intervals, the data from Ambulance and Police attendance to a scene or event is well documented so reliable information to gather rates from.

You have to also remember that KHL 'Duty of care interventions' are just the information being passed onto Ambulance and Police for further investigation and possible attendance, then it will obviously be added to those services data.
Based on fairly extensive experience in that service sector I know that "hoax" calls are vanishly rare. "Unwelcome calls", a category that includes hoax calls together with abusive calls, make up less than 3 percent of calls taken. That is pretty consistent across all services.

PoppaJo

2nd Jan 2022, 23:45

Biden- 500 million free RATs for the population
Boris- 2 per person for all each week
Morrison- MAYBE pensioners might get a subsidy if they are lucky. Everyone else, $$$

Torukmacto

2nd Jan 2022, 23:58

Biden- 500 million free RATs for the population
Boris- 2 per person for all each week
Morrison- MAYBE pensioners might get a subsidy if they are lucky. Everyone else, $$$
It would be frustrating to have got omnicron and not know due no test kit . I guess if people feel crook they could assume they have it and get info out on social media but it’s best to know for sure to avoid embarrassment of posting with just the flu .

WingNut60

3rd Jan 2022, 00:08

43Inches

3rd Jan 2022, 00:35

Based on fairly extensive experience in that service sector I know that "hoax" calls are vanishly rare. "Unwelcome calls", a category that includes hoax calls together with abusive calls, make up less than 3 percent of calls taken. That is pretty consistent across all services.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-15/what-happens-when-there-is-an-accidental-triple-zero-call/10494444

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/nearly-10000-false-calls-to-000-emergency-line-in-past-year/news-story/571cd8a90e0d7673e4c095cab2a59ad5

https://www.9news.com.au/national/triple-0-pranksters-putting-lives-at-risk/b4b8d181-a921-45e9-a72f-d764d333d6dc

For 000 pranks are up to about 10% of calls on average for emergency services and 30% on average are nuisance, non emergencies, accidental, hang-ups and butt dials etc.

Most of the helplines/prevention lines don't disclose rates of hoaxes anymore as they are funded on calls taken. Since the big blow up that happened 20 years ago in Victoria with KHL and such I'm pretty sure they keep the figures close to home. As I said earlier when it went to ask for further funding from the then Vic gov numbers as high as 1 in 3 nuisance calls was banded around. A lot of teens falsely reporting their mates for fun, pretending to be sick 5 year olds etc, they are out there. Maybe kids have grown up in the 2020s, less pranks and stupidity, sure sounds like it with 5 years olds contemplating suicide, I had no idea what being alive actually was at that age, let alone wanting to end it all.

Speaking of apparent inconsistency in reporting (or tabulating statistics), am I the only one scratching his head wondering why Victoria has a daily "new case" rate approx. 1/3 that of NSW (4829 / 13944 - 7-day avg.) yet Victoria has a reported death rate double that of NSW (6 / 3 - 7-day avg.)

Victoria still has a large chunk of left over delta cases. As far as case differences, I think Melbournians are still sticking to masks and stuff, so maybe that's making a difference or, all the Victorians with it are adding to NSW and QLD numbers while on holiday.

Jester64

3rd Jan 2022, 00:46

43Inches

3rd Jan 2022, 00:50

Got me, but that sort of data is just hard to find. And I'm not in the mood for some deep mining at the moment. I also noted that a lot of negative press from the KHL turmoils years ago have been removed from the net.

Jester64

3rd Jan 2022, 00:51

All good 👍🏻

MickG0105

3rd Jan 2022, 01:16

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-15/what-happens-when-there-is-an-accidental-triple-zero-call/10494444

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/nearly-10000-false-calls-to-000-emergency-line-in-past-year/news-story/571cd8a90e0d7673e4c095cab2a59ad5

https://www.9news.com.au/national/triple-0-pranksters-putting-lives-at-risk/b4b8d181-a921-45e9-a72f-d764d333d6dc

For 000 pranks are up to about 10% of calls on average for emergency services and 30% on average are nuisance, non emergencies, accidental, hang-ups and butt dials etc.

We're not talking about 000, are we? We were talking about crisis support services such as Kids Helpline, Beyond Blue and the like. The service that I have been with for 12 years tracks unwelcome calls, such as hoax calls, closely. A decade ago the unwelcome call rate hovered around 5 percent; it's now less than 3 percent. And that's for all unwelcome calls - the vast majority of those are abusive or "explicit" calls.

... I also noted that a lot of negative press from the KHL turmoils years ago have been removed from the net.
What?! You think that Kids Helpline have the chops to expunge records from the internet?!

43Inches

3rd Jan 2022, 05:23

What?! You think that Kids Helpline have the chops to expunge records from the internet?!

Kids Help Line, aka Yourtown aka Boystown aka De La Salle brothers aka Catholic church Rome. Just because they take public funding and donations does not mean they are short of legal support or don't know how to suppress information.

WhisprSYD

4th Jan 2022, 00:51

Speaking of apparent inconsistency in reporting (or tabulating statistics), am I the only one scratching his head wondering why Victoria has a daily "new case" rate approx. 1/3 that of NSW (4829 / 13944 - 7-day avg.) yet Victoria has a reported death rate double that of NSW (6 / 3 - 7-day avg.)

Perhaps the National Cabinet could consider implementing standardised reporting at their next meeting.

Delta.

Info released today indicated 74% of those in ICU in NSW are Delta, so there is still a bit of it around.
Up until a week or so ago I’d suggest most of the Victorian cases numbers were still from their Delta outbreak. That’s obviously flipped this week with their positive case rate catching NSW’s

blubak

4th Jan 2022, 05:50

Biden- 500 million free RATs for the population
Boris- 2 per person for all each week
Morrison- MAYBE pensioners might get a subsidy if they are lucky. Everyone else, $$$
Morrison is currently copping a charge of $120 per pcr test by the processing labs but he says he cant afford to provide rat tests. I would have thought the rats were a much cheaper alternative even at $50 for 5.

SOPS

6th Jan 2022, 04:33

This is different. Scott said lockdown were a thing of the past. So the NT is having a “lockout” instead. If your not vaccinated you can’t leave home.

Icarus2001

6th Jan 2022, 06:20

This is different. Scott said lockdown were a thing of the past. So the NT is having a “lockout” instead. If your not vaccinated you can’t leave home.

Now come on Big G, that is not quite correct. There are THREE reasons to leave home allowed, going to work is not one of them.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-06/nt-covid-numbers-michael-gunner/100741026

Anyway you have not answered my previous question....What would YOU do about the WA border?

SOPS

6th Jan 2022, 06:54

Now come on Big G, that is not quite correct. There are THREE reasons to leave home allowed, going to work is not one of them.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-06/nt-covid-numbers-michael-gunner/100741026

Anyway you have not answered my previous question....What would YOU do about the WA border?

Well, at the moment, looking at what is happening in the Eastern States, I would leave the border as it is. Mainly because I know the WA hospital system is already close to breaking point. ( and you are correct, there are three reasons to leave home in the NT, if your not vaccinated).

Edit… for what it’s worth, Dr Andrew Miller from the AMA, is currently on the radio saying that opening the WA borders now is complete madness. But that’s only his opinion.

Potsie Weber

6th Jan 2022, 07:59

Well, at the moment, looking at what is happening in the Eastern States, I would leave the border as it is. Mainly because I know the WA hospital system is already close to breaking point. ( and you are correct, there are three reasons to leave home in the NT, if your not vaccinated).

Edit… for what it’s worth, Dr Andrew Miller from the AMA, is currently on the radio saying that opening the WA borders now is complete madness. But that’s only his opinion.

If WA doesn’t open sometime within the next couple of months, then when do they? WA has had 2yrs of time and loads of money to prepare for living with COVID, it seems they have invested little of either in anything apart from keeping borders shut. The experts are saying Omicron will likely peak within the next week or so for eastern states, so WA opening up sometime in February seems to be not such a bad idea. If WA doesn’t open within next couple of months, it will likely have to stay shut until after winter to avoid a worse situation. By then the next variant will be on the rise and the merry-go-round continues.

Icarus2001

6th Jan 2022, 08:41

Thanks for the answer SOPS but the other question is when would you open?

If not Feb then when?

Difficult I know but ambulance ramping has been going in on WA for YEARS.

Perhaps a five billion dollar surplus is less important than a good hospital system?

Jester64

6th Jan 2022, 08:44

Well, at the moment, looking at what is happening in the Eastern States, I would leave the border as it is. Mainly because I know the WA hospital system is already close to breaking point. ( and you are correct, there are three reasons to leave home in the NT, if your not vaccinated).

Edit… for what it’s worth, Dr Andrew Miller from the AMA, is currently on the radio saying that opening the WA borders now is complete madness. But that’s only his opinion.

The WA health system has been at breaking point for years, yet life still went on without restrictions.

The number of people on ventilators nation-wide is still not even in triple digits, and we have anywhere from 400,000 to 4,000,000 active cases (the true case count will never be known).

40 odd people die every day in WA. Covid may see this increase to 42 at maximum? just by looking at the current case fatality rate for Australia.

There is always going to be a whinge from AMA, as doctors and nurses might not be able to take leave when they want it, or may be forced into overtime in 2022. Sound familiar??

What exactly is happening over east? And don’t tell me case numbers because that’s irrelevant now. The number of ICU patients are actually less now than what they were months ago.

Icarus2001

6th Jan 2022, 11:31

You know it would be interesting if every time the media mentioned the AMA they said it like this…..

“ The doctors official the union, the AMA says that….”

We as a pilot group need to learn a great deal from them.

goodonyamate

6th Jan 2022, 19:13

The AMA are a farce. They masquerade as ‘doctors who care’ but the reality is they represent their members, who stand to lose that mentioned above as well as MONEY when their elective surgeries are cancelled due to COVID patients. Typical Australian media. No facts, just click bait.

WA are going to get smashed. Depending on what happens here with timing etc. it’s feasible that the day WA opens, the rest of Australia locks them out. Now wouldnt that be a laugh.

43Inches

6th Jan 2022, 22:41

There is always going to be a whinge from AMA, as doctors and nurses might not be able to take leave when they want it, or may be forced into overtime in 2022. Sound familiar??

More stress on public sector doctors means more leave and join the private sector, directly meaning higher costs to the entire system and another step up in the medicare levy and jumps in private health insurance. Like everything there is a reaction to the actions going on now. Everyone screaming that hospitals need to be better to cater for more patients in preventable pandemics should be the first to open their wallets, or have we not learnt who pays in the end for all of this? No such thing as "free tests" we are all paying for them, no such thing as "free health care" we are paying for it, we just pay a premium via Private insurance or tax surcharges.

The AMA are a farce. They masquerade as ‘doctors who care’ but the reality is they represent their members, who stand to lose that mentioned above as well as MONEY when their elective surgeries are cancelled due to COVID patients.

What's farcical about that statement? The AMA is a voice for doctors, a quasi union, so yes it speaks for it's members. The AMA is not some advocate for the general public, they are a membership association for doctors and healthcare issues. So anything that negatively affects doctors or working conditions they will be against. If you are looking for advice that balances the needs of healthcare workers vs the economy or freedoms, that's what the health departments and ATAGI are for. Ask a doctor (the AMA) whats best for the public, of course you get a biased answer towards making things better for health care workers, like asking AFAP or AIPA what's best for the public, it will be in opening things up, as that's best for aviation and pilots.

If you want real answers to what is best, a panel of specialists that look at everything from the medical aspects to the affects on social interactions to business etc.

Have we got so dumb to not realise that speaking to relevant invested parties always results in answers biased towards that group? Like voting for the Libs in Australia and somehow thinking they wont give big business buddies a big step up every time.

goodonyamate

7th Jan 2022, 03:41

More stress on public sector doctors means more leave and join the private sector, directly meaning higher costs to the entire system and another step up in the medicare levy and jumps in private health insurance. Like everything there is a reaction to the actions going on now. Everyone screaming that hospitals need to be better to cater for more patients in preventable pandemics should be the first to open their wallets, or have we not learnt who pays in the end for all of this? No such thing as "free tests" we are all paying for them, no such thing as "free health care" we are paying for it, we just pay a premium via Private insurance or tax surcharges.

What's farcical about that statement? The AMA is a voice for doctors, a quasi union, so yes it speaks for it's members. The AMA is not some advocate for the general public, they are a membership association for doctors and healthcare issues. So anything that negatively affects doctors or working conditions they will be against. If you are looking for advice that balances the needs of healthcare workers vs the economy or freedoms, that's what the health departments and ATAGI are for. Ask a doctor (the AMA) whats best for the public, of course you get a biased answer towards making things better for health care workers, like asking AFAP or AIPA what's best for the public, it will be in opening things up, as that's best for aviation and pilots.

If you want real answers to what is best, a panel of specialists that look at everything from the medical aspects to the affects on social interactions to business etc.

Have we got so dumb to not realise that speaking to relevant invested parties always results in answers biased towards that group? Like voting for the Libs in Australia and somehow thinking they wont give big business buddies a big step up every time.

completely agree 43. My point was the media portray the AMA as some association of dogooders with only the public interest at heart, whereas in actual fact, they are exactly as you describe.

SOPS

7th Jan 2022, 03:49

The WA health system has been at breaking point for years, yet life still went on without restrictions.

The number of people on ventilators nation-wide is still not even in triple digits, and we have anywhere from 400,000 to 4,000,000 active cases (the true case count will never be known).

40 odd people die every day in WA. Covid may see this increase to 42 at maximum? just by looking at the current case fatality rate for Australia.

There is always going to be a whinge from AMA, as doctors and nurses might not be able to take leave when they want it, or may be forced into overtime in 2022. Sound familiar??

What exactly is happening over east? And don’t tell me case numbers because that’s irrelevant now. The number of ICU patients are actually less now than what they were months ago.

What’s happening over East? Well let’s have a look today. Most elective surgery cancelled in NSW, along with singing dancing. QLD is thinking about delaying return to school dates and asking people to stay inside for the next 6 weeks ( a lock down when your not having a lock down.)

Shops running out of food because there are no staff to deliver it or stock shelves because they are sick or isolating.

It’s all going so well.

Maggie Island

7th Jan 2022, 03:53

-41

7th Jan 2022, 05:19

So why hasn’t Emperor McGowan who frequently paraded his “protector and defender of the West” act over the last two years - opted to delay the 5 Feb reopening?

Mark’s busy on holiday. the ANF survey was sent out to family members this week whom work in nursing. Maybe May ?

Chad Gates

7th Jan 2022, 07:17

Mark’s busy on holiday. the ANF survey was sent out to family members this week whom work in nursing. Maybe May ?

While I wouldn't doubt MM could go back on his word, a survey from the nurses union to union members is not a particularly earth shattering interest piece. I think we know people in the medical fraternity aren't looking forward to it.

Chad Gates

7th Jan 2022, 07:49

My best friends wife works for a private health care company. A massive green one, with their own hospitals etc…….that most in WA would know. She isn’t a nurse, a doctor or even work in the hospital, but works in supply. Today they were advised that from Monday, they will be required to work from home indefinitely ( the same thing happened in March 2020) due to the border opening on Feb 5th.

SOPS

7th Jan 2022, 09:15

shortshortz

7th Jan 2022, 09:44

You can’t have a healthy economy without healthy people.

Food is starting to become scarce on supermarket shelves.

People are told to work from home. Local cafes, delis, lunch bars suffer.

Wait until it’s fuel running short. And Jet A1. This all continues to pan out really, really well.

You serious?
It's an inevitable wave that wil peak in three weeks and then we're done. Everyone back to work post infection with immunity - wave dies out. Four weeks to hold out isn't much after two years

Maggie Island

7th Jan 2022, 09:48

Food is starting to become scarce on supermarket shelves.

As much as I love to sensationalise the destruction and demise of East Coast cities I think you’ve been swallowing too much A Current Affair

43Inches

7th Jan 2022, 09:57

Everything that's happening at the moment is more of an annoyance than anything close to a system failure or collapse of civilisation. Yes some businesses will be losing a lot of cash to sick leave and more cautious consumers don't splash cash on the great end of pandemic exhale. Until we have Soviet style bread lines happening I don't think it will do more than apply some mild brakes to what is well preforming Australian economy. I think we are very used to just getting what we want whenever we want for reasonable prices, suddenly when we have to wait for something it must be the end of the world. By the way, anyone else notice milk has gone up about 20% by sneaky stealth. Inflation is what the real enemy will be in this recovery.

SOPS

7th Jan 2022, 10:59

As much as I love to sensationalise the destruction and demise of East Coast cities I think you’ve been swallowing too much A Current Affair

Not normally my thing.. but I just checked the ABC

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100739894

Icarus2001

7th Jan 2022, 13:00

This all continues to pan out really, really well. SOPS, again with the chicken little routine, what would you be doing differently? Keep Australia locked down indefinitely?
Take a look at Sweden… no lockdowns….have a look at their infection rate now.

Jester64

7th Jan 2022, 14:16

What’s happening over East? Well let’s have a look today. Most elective surgery cancelled in NSW, along with singing dancing. QLD is thinking about delaying return to school dates and asking people to stay inside for the next 6 weeks ( a lock down when your not having a lock down.)

Shops running out of food because there are no staff to deliver it or stock shelves because they are sick or isolating.

It’s all going so well.

Yeah but they have their borders open. When the border opens, along with any new variant, temporary adjustments will need to be made. Transitioning to living with the virus is going to have hiccups. If it means no dancing for a while, or a shortage of toilet paper or home
schooling again then so be it. But it will be temporary and they will come out on the other side better for it.

Xeptu

7th Jan 2022, 18:18

Yeah but they have their borders open. When the border opens, along with any new variant, temporary adjustments will need to be made. Transitioning to living with the virus is going to have hiccups. If it means no dancing for a while, or a shortage of toilet paper or home
schooling again then so be it. But it will be temporary and they will come out on the other side better for it.

Pure speculation, how is this any different to lockdowns, when the borders were closed you would never have known there was a pandemic, Today in SA every 5th person is isolating, there are more restrictions and shortages now than there was when the borders were closed and for what exactly.

Jester64

7th Jan 2022, 20:43

Pure speculation, how is this any different to lockdowns, when the borders were closed you would never have known there was a pandemic, Today in SA every 5th person is isolating, there are more restrictions and shortages now than there was when the borders were closed and for what exactly.

Nothing speculative about the NSW border being open, which is what I’m referring to.

I agree with the border closed, you would never have known there was a pandemic - except for the fact that you can’t enter the state.

You guys are unbelievable. The borders are open in most states and our industry can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but some are still not happy because their little state bubble has been disrupted. I say again - when a state opens their border and goes from covid 0 to living with covid, there will be a transition period with temporary restrictions put in place, but thank christ the border remains open for the sake of our industry.

Xeptu

7th Jan 2022, 21:19

Nothing speculative about the NSW border being open, which is what I’m referring to.

I agree with the border closed, you would never have known there was a pandemic - except for the fact that you can’t enter the state.

You guys are unbelievable. The borders are open in most states and our industry can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but some are still not happy because their little state bubble has been disrupted. I say again - when a state opens their border and goes from covid 0 to living with covid, there will be a transition period with temporary restrictions put in place, but thank christ the border remains open for the sake of our industry.

The state borders opening is/was inevitable, That in my opinion is necessary. The issue now is what difference has it made and the answer to that question is undeniably worse as it continues so around the rest of the world as well. I don't share your optimism with respect to "temporary" nor do I believe our or anybody else's industry will be any better off, at least for the next couple of years.

Torukmacto

7th Jan 2022, 21:34

Sister just diagnosed with omnicron, lives in NSW and is getting on with it , wants borders to remain open . Cousin got it last week , lives in vic and his job involves a lot of interstate travel and he wants nothing closed off . My mother in her mid 70’s 12 months from miraculously surviving stage 4 colon cancer ( immunotherapy) that spread to liver who has nothing to gain from opening borders wants country opened up . She could be excused for wanting borders closed as she a pensioner with some horrible experiences but brave enough to see what needs to happen to get country going plus the mental health issues lockdowns are causing . Omicron won’t take years to disappear . I got respect for these people .

Jester64

7th Jan 2022, 21:50

The state borders opening is/was inevitable, That in my opinion is necessary. The issue now is what difference has it made and the answer to that question is undeniably worse as it continues so around the rest of the world as well. I don't share your optimism with respect to "temporary" nor do I believe our or anybody else's industry will be any better off, at least for the next couple of years.

What difference has it made? People are now able to enter most parts of Australia from abroad and from within. That means people can re-connect, freedom of movement is restored for citizens and it also means the recall of many pilots. It’s also meant job offers for me and most of the unemployed pilots I know. To me that’s a sign of the industry being ‘better off’.

Thank christ both federal and state governments don’t share your view and think that life will be better off with the borders closed. You’re on the wrong forum to be whinging about the borders being opened. I get how SOPS does because he is happier driving trains then flying planes. I’d take a guess that you are retired from this industry also?

Wizofoz

7th Jan 2022, 23:01

What difference has it made? People are now able to enter most parts of Australia from abroad and from within.

Plus the rapidly filling ICUs, cancelled elective surgeries, exhausted health care workers and rising deaths.

Happy days!

Yes it was inevitable that borders re-open- but only now high vaccination rates are maing it JUST managable.

Climb150

7th Jan 2022, 23:04

Plus the rapidly filling ICUs, cancelled elective surgeries, exhausted health care workers and rising deaths.

Happy days!

Yes it was inevitable that borders re-open- but only now high vaccination rates are maing it JUST managable.

Which hospital ICU's are being over run?

Wizofoz

7th Jan 2022, 23:06

Which hospital ICU's are being over run?
Where did I say any were?

Jester64

7th Jan 2022, 23:11

Plus the rapidly filling ICUs, cancelled elective surgeries, exhausted health care workers and rising deaths.

All of which was expected. Things happening faster with the new variant, could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

Wizofoz

7th Jan 2022, 23:16

All of which was expected. Things happening faster with the new variant, could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

Yes. But you were implying restrictions should have been lifted earlier. That would have been a disaster.

Blessing? Infections are up 3000% on two weeks ago. ICU admissions are a two week lagging indicator. 3000% of current ICU admissions exceeds current capacity by about 50%. We are in trouble,

Jester64

7th Jan 2022, 23:37

Yes. But you were implying restrictions should have been lifted earlier. That would have been a disaster.

Blessing? Infections are up 3000% on two weeks ago. ICU admissions are a two week lagging indicator. 3000% of current ICU admissions exceeds current capacity by about 50%. We are in trouble,

You have me mistaken if you think that I’ve been implying that the borders should have reopened earlier.

FWIW, quotes from an article published yesterday: “Experts say Omicron will likely have more recorded cases but will place a similar strain on the system as the flu season.

Data from the NSW government’s 2017 epidemiology report showed that 9330 people were hospitalised from *influenza and a further 6539 were hospitalised with influenza as a secondary illness.”

Get a grip mate. Just 72 on ventilators Australia wide and 269 serious / critical.

What I mean by blessing in disguise is that if
Omicron rips through the entire population on the east coast very quickly, the infection numbers will fall very rapidly. Combine that with very high rates of vaccinations and the east coast will be in a good position.

Wizofoz

8th Jan 2022, 00:08

FWIW, quotes from an article published yesterday: “Experts say Omicron will likely have more recorded cases but will place a similar strain on the system as the flu season.

Data from the NSW government’s 2017 epidemiology report showed that 9330 people were hospitalised from *influenza and a further 6539 were hospitalised with influenza as a secondary illness.”

Get a grip mate. Just 72 on ventilators Australia wide and 269 serious / critical.

What I mean by blessing in disguise is that if
Omicron rips through the entire population on the east coast very quickly, the infection numbers will fall very rapidly. Combine that with very high rates of vaccinations and the east coast will be in a good position.

An article published where?

9330 cases FOR THE YEAR- NOT all at once. There are over 1700 hostpitilisations NOW and that will likely rise 10 fold in the comming weeks- likewise "just" 72 on ventilators- most of them would have been infected around 2 weeks ago- what's the percentage increase that 72 represents from a month ago? project that forwrd and we run out of ventilators- and that'sfor ANYONE who needs one- very quickly.

Anyway, we are both conjecturing- do you a deal. We will both post here on 29th of the month- I predict we will at or very near caoacity for ICUs and ventalators- you think differently?

Maggie Island

8th Jan 2022, 00:13

Anyway, we are both conjecturing- do you a deal. We will both post here on 29th of the month- I predict we will at or very near caoacity for ICUs and ventalators- you think differently?

I don’t think I’ve ever been this picky on prune, but damn your deal would have so much more gumption if you could spell ventilator.:8

Jester64

8th Jan 2022, 00:31

Xeptu

8th Jan 2022, 01:38

What difference has it made? People are now able to enter most parts of Australia from abroad and from within. That means people can re-connect, freedom of movement is restored for citizens and it also means the recall of many pilots. It’s also meant job offers for me and most of the unemployed pilots I know. To me that’s a sign of the industry being ‘better off’.

Thank christ both federal and state governments don’t share your view and think that life will be better off with the borders closed. You’re on the wrong forum to be whinging about the borders being opened. I get how SOPS does because he is happier driving trains then flying planes. I’d take a guess that you are retired from this industry also?

Not really what I meant. The decision to open up and let it rip has been made, well do that then. To be telling us we have to isolate if infected, get tested if you think you are, cancel events, work from home, etc etc, is "POINTLESS". It's everyone for themselves, our own individual decisions will determine what happens to our economy/recovery. right now all I'm seeing is closed, not available, delayed due to staff shortages. Surely this wasn't the plan. What will I be doing in the short term, not venturing very far from home, I'm sure I'm not alone.

Jester64

8th Jan 2022, 02:20

Not really what I meant. The decision to open up and let it rip has been made, well do that then. To be telling us we have to isolate if infected, get tested if you think you are, cancel events, work from home, etc etc, is "POINTLESS". It's everyone for themselves, our own individual decisions will determine what happens to our economy/recovery. right now all I'm seeing is closed, not available, delayed due to staff shortages. Surely this wasn't the plan. What will I be doing in the short term, not venturing very far from home, I'm sure I'm not alone.

Good to hear it’s not what you meant, because it’s certainly not what you said…anyhow of course it wasn’t the plan, the plan was based on the Delta. Omicron threw a spanner in the works with its transmissibility.

Xeptu

8th Jan 2022, 02:40

Good to hear it’s not what you meant, because it’s certainly not what you said…anyhow of course it wasn’t the plan, the plan was based on the Delta. Omicron threw a spanner in the works with its transmissibility.

I don't think what I said initially is of any significant difference. Omicron was present in Australia when our borders opened in SA as is the newest variant IHU, not yet detected in Australia. there will be plenty more yet. It is what it is. Unless the omega strain breaks out somewhere we don't even need to hear about it anymore.

Jester64

8th Jan 2022, 02:55

It was present when the border opened yes, but the plan to open and the modelling used to construct the plan was based on the Delta.

Xeptu

8th Jan 2022, 03:09

It was present when the border opened yes, but the plan to open and the modelling used to construct the plan was based on the Delta.

And I would say the plan to open was purely a political decision, any modelling was about what to expect as a consequence of that decision. I don't believe any of us expected that we would still be isolating, staying home, getting tested when we are not all that unwell, having our supply chains disrupted, staff shortages, cancelling anything. Opening up was supposed to end all that and so it should, at least from a government perspective. we the people will decide what happens from here as a consequence of our own individual decisions and actions. If the majority just get on with it, recovery, if on the other hand they stay home and isolate, recession. The current policy and directions are not helping recovery.

Jester64

8th Jan 2022, 03:32

And I would say the plan to open was purely a political decision, any modelling was about what to expect as a consequence of that decision. I don't believe any of us expected that we would still be isolating, staying home, getting tested when we are not all that unwell, having our supply chains disrupted, staff shortages, cancelling anything. Opening up was supposed to end all that and so it should, at least from a government perspective. we the people will decide what happens from here as a consequence of our own individual decisions and actions. If the majority just get on with it, recovery, if on the other hand they stay home and isolate, recession. The current policy and directions are not helping recovery.

Mate I agree with you there - you won’t find me going and getting tested voluntarily.

Xeptu

8th Jan 2022, 03:49

Mate I agree with you there - you won’t find me going and getting tested voluntarily.

And that's the question I'm asking really. Now that the borders are open and the virus is spreading like wildfire, I expect to be infected. I'm doing everything I can not to be. Until I know what the impact upon me personally is as a consequence of being infected, I don't intend doing much or going anywhere, even if that takes weeks, months, years. Once I am or have been infected I don't expect to have to comply with any pointless health directions.
So the question is, is everybody else doing or plan to do anything any differently.

dr dre

8th Jan 2022, 13:26

An article published where?

9330 cases FOR THE YEAR- NOT all at once. There are over 1700 hostpitilisations NOW and that will likely rise 10 fold in the comming weeks- likewise "just" 72 on ventilators- most of them would have been infected around 2 weeks ago- what's the percentage increase that 72 represents from a month ago? project that forwrd and we run out of ventilators- and that'sfor ANYONE who needs one- very quickly.

Anyway, we are both conjecturing- do you a deal. We will both post here on 29th of the month- I predict we will at or very near caoacity for ICUs and ventalators- you think differently?

How many ventilators and ICU beds in NSW? About 2000 each (https://thewest.com.au/news/coronavirus/nsw-breaks-aust-record-with-825-new-cases-c-3745516).

How many currently in use for Covid patients? 145 ICU beds and 40 Ventilators (https://covidlive.com.au/nsw). Approx 387 ICU beds (https://www.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-09/Intensive_Care_Capacity_0.pdf) taken up with non Covid patients at any one time, so total ICU capacity not even 30% yet. And a good proportion of those were incidental, somewhere between 25-50%.

If you're going to predict that ICU and ventilators will be very near capacity (90%+) by 29/01 then you'd better be hoping for a massive increase, as data from South Africa and Europe has shown the Omicron wave peaks in about a month, so should be on the downswing by late Jan.

dr dre

8th Jan 2022, 13:38

Blessing? Infections are up 3000% on two weeks ago. ICU admissions are a two week lagging indicator. 3000% of current ICU admissions exceeds current capacity by about 50%. We are in trouble,

You are making a huge logical fallacy in that statement. You are assuming that the rise in cases is matched by a exact rise in hospitalisation/ICU admission, whereas most acknowledge increased infectiousness but decreased severity with Omicron, up to 80% less severe (https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/safrica-study-suggests-lower-risk-hospitalisation-with-omicron-versus-delta-2021-12-22/). It's why South Africa suffered about 1/6th the hospitalisation of their Delta wave. I'd expect ICU admissions to level out much lower, and then we really don't know the breakdown of those admitted for Covid reasons and those admitted for other reasons who test positive for regular screening, and are counted in official numbers. They may be asymptomatic. You can hardly say Covid is overloading hospitals then. About 75% of those in ICU in NSW have Delta (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-04/nsw-records-highest-hospitalisation-and-covid-cases/100736056?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=twitter&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web) not Omicron, so what we are seeing is the end of the Delta wave in hospitals, not so the recent rise in cases. The increasing Omicron cases will not cause a similar rise in hospital admissions/ICU

The length stay in hospitals is also lower, from 8 down to 2.8 days (https://www.smh.com.au/world/africa/new-south-african-hospital-data-supports-signs-omicron-is-milder-than-delta-20211212-p59gub.html) on average. I don't know too much about the disease treatment but I imagine you can't be admitted to hospital for Covid, get sent to the ICU, get put on a ventilator, get taken off a ventilator, be monitored back to the ICU, then downgraded to general wards and then discharged all within 2 and a half days, so the severity of the illness and strain on hospitals is surely lower with Omicron.

Wizofoz

8th Jan 2022, 20:33

You are making a huge logical fallacy in that statement. You are assuming that the rise in cases is matched by a exact rise in hospitalisation/ICU admission, whereas most acknowledge increased infectiousness but decreased severity with Omicron, up to 80% less severe (https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/safrica-study-suggests-lower-risk-hospitalisation-with-omicron-versus-delta-2021-12-22/). It's why South Africa suffered about 1/6th the hospitalisation of their Delta wave. I'd expect ICU admissions to level out much lower, and then we really don't know the breakdown of those admitted for Covid reasons and those admitted for other reasons who test positive for regular screening, and are counted in official numbers. They may be asymptomatic. You can hardly say Covid is overloading hospitals then. About 75% of those in ICU in NSW have Delta (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-04/nsw-records-highest-hospitalisation-and-covid-cases/100736056?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=twitter&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web) not Omicron, so what we are seeing is the end of the Delta wave in hospitals, not so the recent rise in cases. The increasing Omicron cases will not cause a similar rise in hospital admissions/ICU

The length stay in hospitals is also lower, from 8 down to 2.8 days (https://www.smh.com.au/world/africa/new-south-african-hospital-data-supports-signs-omicron-is-milder-than-delta-20211212-p59gub.html) on average. I don't know too much about the disease treatment but I imagine you can't be admitted to hospital for Covid, get sent to the ICU, get put on a ventilator, get taken off a ventilator, be monitored back to the ICU, then downgraded to general wards and then discharged all within 2 and a half days, so the severity of the illness and strain on hospitals is surely lower with Omicron.

You are not wrong, but there are a lot of maybes and we thinks there. The way Omicron is spreading, it can BE a much less severe ailment on average and still hugely effect our health system. ICU beds don't grow on trees, in particular in terms ofpersonelle, and we only ever had as many as we thought we needed in "normal" times. Hostpitals in the US are facing an absolute crisis- admittedly in places where the Trump factor has led to loow vaccination rates, but we are in for a pretty torrid time.

Wizofoz

8th Jan 2022, 20:34

How many ventilators and ICU beds in NSW? About 2000 each (https://thewest.com.au/news/coronavirus/nsw-breaks-aust-record-with-825-new-cases-c-3745516).

How many currently in use for Covid patients? 145 ICU beds and 40 Ventilators (https://covidlive.com.au/nsw). Approx 387 ICU beds (https://www.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-09/Intensive_Care_Capacity_0.pdf) taken up with non Covid patients at any one time, so total ICU capacity not even 30% yet. And a good proportion of those were incidental, somewhere between 25-50%.

If you're going to predict that ICU and ventilators will be very near capacity (90%+) by 29/01 then you'd better be hoping for a massive increase, as data from South Africa and Europe has shown the Omicron wave peaks in about a month, so should be on the downswing by late Jan.

I hope you're right.

Wizofoz

8th Jan 2022, 20:36

Mate I agree with you there - you won’t find me going and getting tested voluntarily.

And thus any pretence of a responsible individual vanishes...

Jester64

8th Jan 2022, 21:19

And thus any pretence of a responsible individual vanishes...

Key word being voluntary. As for being responsible - I don’t interact with anyone I consider vulnerable. If I am displaying symptoms I would do as I’ve always done and stay home until no longer being symptomatic. The playbook is changing, even the government discourages unnecessary testing.

Wizofoz

8th Jan 2022, 21:21

Key word being voluntary. As for being responsible - I don’t interact with anyone I consider vulnerable. If I am displaying symptoms I would do as I’ve always done and stay home until no longer being symptomatic. The playbook is changing, even the government discourages unnecessary testing.
No, they discourage unneccessary PCR testing. Taking 15 minutes to do a RAT and find out what you're dealing with is just base level responsible behaviour.

Jester64

8th Jan 2022, 21:27

No, they discourage unneccessary PCR testing. Taking 15 minutes to do a RAT and find out what you're dealing with is just base level responsible behaviour.

So if I don’t have any symptoms, I’m supposed to take a RAT everyday this year to make sure I don’t step out in public whilst being covid positive?

Wizofoz

8th Jan 2022, 21:35

So if I don’t have any symptoms, I’m supposed to take a RAT everyday this year to make sure I don’t step out in public whilst being covid positive?

Ss pilots, we are supposed to be on a 7 day rolling test regime- not to much to ask.

Airlines are cancelling thousands of flights due to staff shortages- making sure you aren't spreading it to work mates, causing ecconomic damage in the process, should be high in the mind of a supossed "get things going" advocate.

Jester64

8th Jan 2022, 21:48

Ss pilots, we are supposed to be on a 7 day rolling test regime- not to much to ask.

Airlines are cancelling thousands of flights due to staff shortages- making sure you aren't spreading it to work mates, causing ecconomic damage in the process, should be high in the mind of a supossed "get things going" advocate.

I said voluntary testing. If my employment mandates a rolling 7 day test, I would comply with that.

You are entitled to your opinion on how others should behave, but based on the fallaciousness of your previous arguments, I don’t value them highly at all.

Wizofoz

8th Jan 2022, 21:50

I said voluntary testing. If my employment mandates a rolling 7 day test, I would comply with that.

You are entitled to your opinion on how others should behave, but based on the fallaciousness of your previous arguments, I don’t value them highly at all.

Based on your total lack of compassion for others, mutual.

Jester64

8th Jan 2022, 21:57

Based on your total lack of compassion for others, mutual.

Please enlighten me how you come to the conclusion I lack total compassion for others based on what I’ve written. Generally curious as to how your braìn works.

wishiwasupthere

8th Jan 2022, 22:06

Ss pilots, we are supposed to be on a 7 day rolling test regime- not to much to ask.

We are? Reference please.

Wizofoz

8th Jan 2022, 22:40

Please enlighten me how you come to the conclusion I lack total compassion for others based on what I’ve written. Generally curious as to how your braìn works.

You're happy to walk around asymptomatic and ignorant of it, infecting those around you. Now please point out where any of my reasoning was fallacious.

Wizofoz

8th Jan 2022, 22:41

We are? Reference please.
Class exemption for domestic aircrew to enter Queensland.

Going Nowhere

8th Jan 2022, 22:51

Class exemption for domestic aircrew to enter Queensland.

It should apply to any aircrew who overnight in a hotspot and then return to QLD. PCR within the previous 7 days or RAT within the previous 72 hours.

Seems pointless these days really…

Jester64

8th Jan 2022, 23:03

You're happy to walk around asymptomatic and ignorant of it, infecting those around you. Now please point out where any of my reasoning was fallacious.

Dr Dre pointed it out very nicely.

I am free to walk around asymptomatic as we all are, and have been doing our entire lives. Because I CHOOSE not to voluntarily RAT myself doesn’t mean I am ignorant to the fact I may infect others. I may infect them, as they have infected me. If I don’t infect them, the next person will. That’s where we are at on the eastern seaboard. Get with it mate. Everyone is going to get infected. With our high level of vaccination, we can now treat it like how we treated the flu. That’s the words of the PM. Did you test yourself for influenza when the flu was rife in Australia or wherever you were in the world prior to this pandemic, even though you were asymptomatic? Hell, I bet you didn’t even test yourself if you displayed symptoms. You probably just stayed home like I would have.

Wizofoz

8th Jan 2022, 23:29

Dr Dre pointed it out very nicely.

I am free to walk around asymptomatic as we all are, and have been doing our entire lives. Because I CHOOSE not to voluntarily RAT myself doesn’t mean I am ignorant to the fact I may infect others. I may infect them, as they have infected me. If I don’t infect them, the next person will. That’s where we are at on the eastern seaboard. Get with it mate. Everyone is going to get infected. With our high level of vaccination, we can now treat it like how we treated the flu. That’s the words of the PM. Did you test yourself for influenza when the flu was rife in Australia or wherever you were in the world prior to this pandemic, even though you were asymptomatic? Hell, I bet you didn’t even test yourself if you displayed symptoms. You probably just stayed home like I would have.

So why do you need me to explain why you are irresponsible and uncompassionate when you articu;ate it so well yourself?

Jester64

8th Jan 2022, 23:37

Like I said, I wanted to see how your brain works. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Torukmacto

8th Jan 2022, 23:50

Why test ? If your double vaccinated, healthy , no underlying health issues just stay home and follow health advice ? Why are we in a made panic to get a test ? It’s just using up resources and added costs . We all going to get it , do we need it confirmed ? It’s more of a mental health issue now than a physical problem . What if we turned off the news , social media for a week , calmed down and reset this would be a lot easier .

Xeptu

8th Jan 2022, 23:52

The purpose of opening the borders was to accept the virus and get on with it. So that is the mindset. That's the decision.
I agree that there is still a need to protect vulnerable people, I believe it is reasonable to be tested virus free prior to entering a hospital, a medical facility, an aged peoples home or any or vulnerable peoples facility, except entry via a dedicated facility covid entry point, where procedures are in place.

For anywhere else it's on us to decide if you want to risk being there, whatever that risk may be and whatever procedures you decide as a family in your own space.

I don't see the need for mandatory isolation or testing for any other reason, all that's going to do is nobble our businesses even further and for longer. I don't see the need for government controlled checkins and compliance requirements in public places other than what I have already stated.

PoppaJo

9th Jan 2022, 08:28

planedriver

9th Jan 2022, 09:38

dr dre

9th Jan 2022, 10:58

Going to be a struggle to even fly the way it’s going, I am watching crews dropping like flies at the moment. This coming fortnight is going to be tough. On the plus side it appears the public is staying away at the moment so hopefully not too many inconvenienced.

What I think that this pandemic is showing is how much all employers in all industries have relied on workers coming into work while sick. We've all done it, come in with just a "minor virus" or come back to work after a cold a day or two before we should have. Don't want to piss off the boss too much.

What we're seeing now is the effect on society if everyone had a full week off after a contagious illness, as they really should, to prevent passing it on. Have a think if people took a full 7 days off after every cold or illness they got in winter 2019 or before and how disrupted a business would be. Industries work their employers to the bone, and employ only the bare essential number. The best thing would be to increase sick leave and for companies to employ enough workers to cover those who are sick. But once this pandemic is over I think those phone calls pressuring workers to come to work while sick or return ASAP will resume.

SOPS

9th Jan 2022, 11:14

Wizofoz

9th Jan 2022, 11:31

What I think that this pandemic is showing is how much all employers in all industries have relied on workers coming into work while sick. We've all done it, come in with just a "minor virus" or come back to work after a cold a day or two before we should have. Don't want to piss off the boss too much.

What we're seeing now is the effect on society if everyone had a full week off after a contagious illness, as they really should, to prevent passing it on. Have a think if people took a full 7 days off after every cold or illness they got in winter 2019 or before and how disrupted a business would be. Industries work their employers to the bone, and employ only the bare essential number. The best thing would be to increase sick leave and for companies to employ enough workers to cover those who are sick. But once this pandemic is over I think those phone calls pressuring workers to come to work while sick or return ASAP will resume.

When i worked for easyJet they had the usual problem of flight attemdents taking much more sick leave than the rest of the workforce.

Their solution? They hired a third-party medical service, so if an employee called in sick, they would be transfered to a nurse.

Conversations went like this-

"Hi- I've got a cold, I need two days off sick".

"What do you do?"

"Flight attendent".

"Oh- well the guide-lines say that flightcrew need seven days off in the event of respitory infection, so I'll mark you sick for the week?"

"Err, yes- yes that would be fine...."

The system didn't last long....

chookcooker

9th Jan 2022, 11:37

completely agree 43. My point was the media portray the AMA as some association of dogooders with only the public interest at heart, whereas in actual fact, they are exactly as you describe.
it’s worse than that, the AMA president is often introduced in media as “One of Australia’s Top Doctors”. I certainly don’t call the head of my union “one of Australians top pilots”.

Jester64

9th Jan 2022, 11:47

I have just come from our local supermarket here in Perth. The shelves are getting empty. Speaking to the owner ( it’s an iGA ), he said there are big supply problems from the Eastern States. I just saw the QLD Premier saying she is worried about keeping the lights on, water running and food on the shelves. NSW is changing isolation rules to try and keep food on the shelves. Flights are being cancelled because of lack of crew and/ or passengers ( I’m surprised about the lack of passengers, I kept hearing about how opening the borders will release a huge pent up demand… it seems sick people don’t like to travel.)

I am waiting to see how long it takes to affect fuel supplies.

Hospitals admissions continue to climb. ICU admissions continue an upward trend. Available health care workers continue a downward trend as more get sick.

I could continue…. So I just want to check. This was the plan, wasn’t it? Open up and all will be normal. That was the idea, was it not? Just checking.

SOPS…Omicron threw a spanner in the works with its transmissibility. What’s happening is due to Omicron, not the border opening. Omicron is more transmissible, but less severe so it comes with some benefit. They made the best decision at the time based on the information available at the time, as do we as pilots. A new threat has presented itself in the form of a new variant, so that threat has to be dealt with, and if needed, the mission will be changed. They are changing the rules regarding isolation in critical industries, they’ve changed the testing requirements etc. The new threat is not ICU or ventilator shortage, it’s supply chain and labour shortage. Which would you rather have? You honestly sound petrified.

Regarding the upward trend in hospitalisations, that’s always going to happen. But take a look at the numbers in NSW: 38 on ventilators with 1962 spare ventilators. SA Health for example have come out and said whilst their case numbers are more than what they forecast, their actual ICU are less then forecast.

dr dre

9th Jan 2022, 12:51

I could continue…. So I just want to check. This was the plan, wasn’t it? Open up and all will be normal. That was the idea, was it not? Just checking.

When you've got the media highlighting every case load in every bulletin, massively long lines for testing, archaic rules that enforced close contact isolation, people afraid to go out and get tested lest they have to isolate and still quite a few that believe Covid is highly fatal then yeah that leads to a decrease in consumer sentiment. In addition to border rules still in effect, some states still requiring PCR testing and we also ahve a nation that is used to generally low case numbers.

But we do know that once waves have passed people travel again. Ryanair's second half 2021 loads matched their second half 2019 loads (https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-2021-strong-passengers/#:~:text=Overall%20for%20the%202021%20calendar,million%20fro m%20July%20to%20December.). Miami International Airport processed more passengers (https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/what-pandemic-miami-airport-sets-thanksgiving-travel-record/2641020/) in November 2021 than November 2019.

It'll happen in Australia too once the initial post opening wave has passed, give it a month or so.

goodonyamate

9th Jan 2022, 17:37

SHVC

9th Jan 2022, 20:20

Either open and stop this isolation rubbish or close all borders now and go back to lockdown, as it stands now we are not really open. Society can not function they way it is heading, I’m currently trying to navigate a closed day care, buy food as they shelfs are empty and many other things.

SOPS

10th Jan 2022, 02:07

but you’re not open. You’re still living in hermit land. Oh that’s right. You don’t want to open so families can be reunited etc. you just want supplies from the eastern states. So stay closed, but take supplies. I guess a trip to the local IGA is pretty much all you’ve got these days. Is that the plan yeah?

Life is normal here thanks. Very few restrictions. ( basically none). No one has died from covid. I’m pretty sure no one is in ICU. Life is pretty good in the hermit kingdom.

Jester64

10th Jan 2022, 02:12

Life is normal here thanks. Very few restrictions. ( basically none). No one has died from covid. I’m pretty sure no one is in ICU. Life is pretty good in the hermit kingdom.

Being a WA resident and unable to return your own state / home / job / family is not normal.

Jester64

10th Jan 2022, 02:21

Life is normal here thanks. Very few restrictions. ( basically none). No one has died from covid. I’m pretty sure no one is in ICU. Life is pretty good in the hermit kingdom.

That definition of normal is unsustainable and you know it, McGowan knows it and the federal government knows it. It’s why WA is opening in FEB.

SOPS

10th Jan 2022, 02:32

That definition of normal is unsustainable and you know it, McGowan knows it and the federal government knows it. It’s why WA is opening in FEB.

I don’t think Mark McGowan as given a flying Fxxk what the Federal Government thinks anytime in the last 2 years. And if you think what is going on right now in the Eastern States is sustainable…. Enjoy.

Jester64

10th Jan 2022, 02:36

I don’t think Mark McGowan as given a flying Fxxk what the Federal Government thinks anytime in the last 2 years. And if you think what is going on right now in the Eastern States is sustainable…. Enjoy.

I didn’t say he did give a f*ck what the feds thought…but he has come out and said that the border needs to open at some point and that the virus will come in and that WA will need to live with it, but it wouldn’t be happening until very high levels of vaccination are achieved. Well now they are…

With regards to your previous post, who’s now dying over east? It’s the unvaccinated, the terminally ill, the extreme elderly (who if the vaccine doesn’t stop them dying from covid, than they were not going to live much longer anyway) and the extremely unlucky ones. It’s not much different to a bad flu season, a time where you and every other person who is calling for the WA border to remain closed were happy to enjoy exercising freedom of movement to cross state borders despite a virus killing over 1,200 per year. You didn’t give a **** back then, now all of a sudden your circumstances have changed so you give a **** now? You piss me off SOPS, me me me me

What’s happening over east is not sustainable, but it is being managed, and it’s only going to be temporary.