All borders to reopen.

[601]

Two cases last four days , from two different hotels
Are both so called "medi hotels"

Why haven't they adopted Qld method of transferring anyone who tests positive in HQ to a isolation ward on a hospital?

Don't the CMOs in each State talk to each other or are they gagged?

[bekolblockage]

International sports people must be more valued than Australian residents lively hoods. Australian open has been nothing but drama, and do Australians really want it here at the moment!

I’d piss off the lot of them..
Can’t stand that Tiley guy- heard him sprouting off on the radio a few weeks about his private jet and how he was having trouble getting it cleaned and serviced and stocked with champers for the trip here.
GFY.

[Telfer86]

The Leaders of Vic gave a late night press conference on Wednesday after first positive

They were very boastful about their expertise in hotel quarantine etc & then began bragging about "helping & advising" the other states
with hotels & apparent expertise in contact tracing

Talking up some new hypothesis about spread through air - some new mechanism of spread that nobody else seems to know about. All just a
mystery & thus nobody can be responsible - same as findings of last years inquiry

Really don't understand why Fed Govt gave them a second chance after last years massive disaster & the whitewash "inquiry"

The camera loving ones seem to have gone to ground today

[McLimit]

Yes McLimit, very funny and I'm now in vaccination group 1b. I guess you have to wait until 2022 with the rest of the Fifteen year olds.

Great comeback there old man :ok:

You can scream and yell all you like about the unfairness of it all but RPT air travel is dead and its going to remain that way.

Dude, sense of humour gone south? Lighten up.

[goodonyamate]

Yes McLimit, very funny and I'm now in vaccination group 1b. I guess you have to wait until 2022 with the rest of the Fifteen year olds.

only too happy to let you iron out any bugs for us. Cheers for taking one for the team :ok:

Edit-please note tongue in cheek...everyone just chill a bit.

[McLimit]

only too happy to let you iron out any bugs for us. Cheers for taking one for the team https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

:}

At least they can do a peer reviewed study on the effects of covid vaccine on senility.

[wheels_down]

For a start HQ Hotels should not be mixing in with the General Public. Whilst they might be separated by floors, it appears that’s not the issue with this escaping.

Had no idea that was even occurring. I thought it was just logic you isolated these hotels away from the General Public.

[Sunfish]

It's really instructive reading comments here. Pilots are indeed unique.

Do you see websites where chippies comment on brain surgery? Plumbers arguing quantum physics?

But commercial pilots on Covid 19 epidemiology? Well that's obviously informed comment.....

[Square Bear]

For a start HQ Hotels should not be mixing in with the General Public. Whilst they might be separated by floors, it appears that’s not the issue with this escaping.


For a fact it was happening in Perth CBD.

[Chronic Snoozer]

It's really instructive reading comments here. Pilots are indeed unique.

Do you see websites where chippies comment on brain surgery? Plumbers arguing quantum physics?

But commercial pilots on Covid 19 epidemiology? Well that's obviously informed comment.....

Yeah I know what you mean. Facebook has been strangely quiet when it comes to the pandemic. Also, I’ve never seen brain surgeons discuss carpentry on their social chat sites nor physicists discussing leaky taps on theirs. Weird.

[LapSap]

Also, I’ve never seen brain surgeons discuss carpentry on their social chat sites nor physicists discussing leaky taps on theirs. Weird.

Hardly surprising- neither have I.
Shall we take that as an apocryphal statement?How many surgeon and physicist chat sites do you actually read as a matter of interest??!!

[Potsie Weber]

It's really instructive reading comments here. Pilots are indeed unique.

Do you see websites where chippies comment on brain surgery? Plumbers arguing quantum physics?

But commercial pilots on Covid 19 epidemiology? Well that's obviously informed comment.....


Well you’re not a professional pilot? WTF are you doing on here then?

[morno]

Well you’re not a professional pilot? WTF are you doing on here then?

Sunfish pretends he knows how to run an airline and is an IR expert, apparently. Ohh and he was quite **** at building a home build once. At least that’s what he sounds like, with all his worries about CASA and his home build.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Also, I’ve never seen brain surgeons discuss carpentry on their social chat sites nor physicists discussing leaky taps on theirs. Weird.

Facebook / Reddit are full of people from all walks of life / vocations discussing the same things you read here. This site is in no way unique.

Whether the discussion is informed / educated etc is a different argument.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Facebook / Reddit are full of people from all walks of life / vocations discussing the same things you read here. This site is in no way unique.

Whether the discussion is informed / educated etc is a different argument.

Hardly surprising- neither have I.
Shall we take that as an apocryphal statement?How many surgeon and physicist chat sites do you actually read as a matter of interest??!!

I was being ironic. Sigh.

[Sunfish]

Morno

The biggest fool can say the Sun is shining but that doesn't make it dark outside.

Yes, I know very little about aviation having only worked for one airline and one defence/aerospace company apart from I.T, Government and the commercialization industry including sitting on the Board of a medical start up.

I received a private briefing from two key Covid investigators from the Peter Doherty Institute in March last year, the contents of which I shared on Pprune at the time which proved substantially correct.

The response I received then from one or two of your colleagues was exactly the same as yours.

If you continue to reject advice out of hand, no matter, or rather because of, the source, then you and your industry deserve your fate.

I still get tidbits, but I rarely share them.

[SHVC]

HQ again in ML, women testing positive on day 16 this afternoon 2 days after leaving HQ same scenario as NSW on Sunday.

Have all the virologist got it wrong from the beginning and the incubation period is longer than 14 days or they’re getting infected whilst in HQ due to failures in the system not addressed yet!

[jrfsp]

Indeed....seems more and more likely that airbourne transmission is happening inside the HQ system....

How many times does the system need to leak before its replaced.....Howard Springs type set up is the way to go....Outdoor, individual cabin set up.

[RVDT]

Have all the virologist got it wrong from the beginning and the incubation period is longer than 14 days or they’re getting infected whilst in HQ due to failures in the system not addressed yet!

Unzud has had 2 cases similar - UK variant?

[KRviator]

At what point are "they" going to say "Enough is Enough!"?? It's got out of HQ pretty much everywhere in Oz, NZ and even The Democratic Peoples Republic of Westralia, both during the 14-day period, and after.

I mean, if a pilot were to land gear up, they learn from it and odds are they don't bloody do it again, do they? How many more times is it going to get out, resulting in border closures, travel restrictions, missed funerals & cancelled weddings?

[Sunfish]

Kraviator - from one of the planners, not me; "We know we are going to have occasional outbreaks because perfect HQ is not statistically possible. We then have to rely on the contact tracing system to protect us."

Please also understand that all Premiers are acting on medical advice.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Hotel Quarantine WA (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-09/quarantining-australians-sound-alarm-on-public-at-covid-hotels/13132426)


Members of the public are also welcome to book rooms at the Pan Pacific Perth, another quarantine hotel.

In a statement, a WA Health spokesperson confirmed two Perth quarantine hotels were open to the public, saying both had to "meet strict requirements" and ensure that "the hotel is clearly divided into two very separate areas".



WA Premier Mark McGowan said the use of quarantine hotels by members of the public had been "queried at length" with medical advisors, and the advice was that "it is not a risk".

More than 2 million people endured a snap five-day lockdown in Perth (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-01/wa-coronavirus-lockdown-prompts-hotel-quarantine-questions/13108632) and surrounding areas last week.

The shutdown was sparked by a single case of coronavirus contracted by a young security guard working at the Four Points by Sheraton hotel.

A review into the breach is ongoing and WA Health Minister Roger Cook has now made it mandatory for all workers in high-risk areas of hotel security to wear masks and eye protection.

[Potsie Weber]

Perth Hyatt! How do divide this into 2 very separate areas?

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/550x410/980444c9_689c_4e76_b2b3_2a48937632f7_b92d17e0715371ff5f8cd68 732a39b22adf70285.jpeg

[DirectAnywhere]

Please also understand that all Premiers are acting on medical advice.

I’d bet London to a brick that the medical advice would have been remote quarantine.

Their political masters will have told the experts that’s not happening, make do with what you’ve got and provide ‘advice’ on the basis that hotel quarantine is the only option. That’s their ‘medical advice’. I suspect some politicians are regretting that decision, except the Feds who’ve managed to duck their constitutional responsibility with flair and aplomb.

The Holiday Inn/ Travelodge was a dive when it opened in the 70’s. It would be well past its use by date now and I can’t imagine the A/C would be up to scratch to prevent aerosol transmission either - as recent events would indicate all too well.

[jrfsp]

Perth Hyatt! How do divide this into 2 very separate areas?

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/550x410/980444c9_689c_4e76_b2b3_2a48937632f7_b92d17e0715371ff5f8cd68 732a39b22adf70285.jpeg

Probably some warning tape across the divide...."do not cross", im sure the virus knows this

[McLimit]

Please also understand that all Premiers are acting on medical advice.

They are accepting medical advice that suits their political agenda. Anybody who trusts a politician in this environment is fool.

[Global Aviator]

They are accepting medical advice that suits their political agenda. Anybody who trusts a politician in this environment is fool.

Only in this environment...............

[currawong]

Remote quarantine, "controversial" a year ago...

"concerned about poor hygiene standards"

"too scared to touch their beds"

"worse than a prison"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-04/wuhan-evacuees-frustrated-after-first-night-on-christmas-island/11927300

[SOPS]

HQ is the problem. And it appears this new UK strain is showing positive after 16 days or more. Either we stop International Arrivals.. or we put them at isolated paces ( Christmas Island for example), for at least one month. 14 days it appears is no longer enough.

[morno]

Morno



Yes, I know very little about aviation having only worked for one airline and one defence/aerospace company apart from I.T, Government and the commercialization industry including sitting on the Board of a medical start up.

I received a private briefing from two key Covid investigators from the Peter Doherty Institute in March last year, the contents of which I shared on Pprune at the time which proved substantially correct.

The response I received then from one or two of your colleagues was exactly the same as yours.

If you continue to reject advice out of hand, no matter, or rather because of, the source, then you and your industry deserve your fate.

I still get tidbits, but I rarely share them.

I’ll take the official advice over something that a cranky old dude on pprune dishes out

[Dannyboy39]

HQ is the problem. And it appears this new UK strain is showing positive after 16 days or more. Either we stop International Arrivals.. or we put them at isolated paces ( Christmas Island for example), for at least one month. 14 days it appears is no longer enough.
Why not go the whole hog and feed the 1 meal a day of gruel and replace hotel rooms with metal bars...

[dr dre]

HQ is the problem. And it appears this new UK strain is showing positive after 16 days or more. Either we stop International Arrivals.. or we put them at isolated paces ( Christmas Island for example), for at least one month. 14 days it appears is no longer enough.

Very unlikely cases beyond 14 days incubation are suddenly showing up in Australian hotel quarantine. As the Vic CHO said yesterday it’s far more likely that the traveler was infected somehow during their last days of hotel quarantine and developed symptoms a few days out of quarantine.

It’s the hotel system that needs changing.

[WingNut60]

And once you've infected a healthy person during their stay in your quarantine hotel, do you then charge them for the following 3 weeks in quarantine / hospital?

Seems like an open door for a damages suit.

[Australopithecus]

The government is charging a hotel quarantine fee to arriving passengers. As you say, the door is open for damages, wide enough to drive a bus full of lawyers through.

[Foxxster]

I’d bet London to a brick that the medical advice would have been remote quarantine.

Their political masters will have told the experts that’s not happening, make do with what you’ve got and provide ‘advice’ on the basis that hotel quarantine is the only option. That’s their ‘medical advice’. I suspect some politicians are regretting that decision, except the Feds who’ve managed to duck their constitutional responsibility with flair and aplomb.

The Holiday Inn/ Travelodge was a dive when it opened in the 70’s. It would be well past its use by date now and I can’t imagine the A/C would be up to scratch to prevent aerosol transmission either - as recent events would indicate all too well.


I heard an interview from an expert from ANU yesterday. He said remote quarantine was NOT feasible.

[McLimit]

I heard an interview from an expert from ANU yesterday. He said remote quarantine was NOT feasible.

What?? You're saying there's an expert contradicting an expert?? No way champ. Doesn't fit the narrative.

[McLimit]

Take some time to read the breathtaking arrogance from someone who had over 800 people die from decisions he was responsible for

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews has insisted his state won’t take as many returned travellers as NSW because his quarantine system has “higher standards”.

“This is not about boasting, it’s just a fact,” Premier Andrews told a press conference on Monday.

Victoria is due to increase its arrival limit from 1,120 to 1,310 next week in response to Prime Minister Scott Morrison ending a temporary reduction of numbers nationwide. However, these figures are substantially lower than NSW, which will return its cap to 3,010.

“We will have less capacity because we have a different model and I lead higher standards,” said Premier Andrews.

“I can say it because it’s true. And whether that’s convenient for people or not, is not really my concern. There’s not 3,500 private security working in our system. Do I need to go any further than that?

“If I was to align many of the criticisms that have been levied, over a long period of time, with what we do now, I’m very confident that we have a system that is worthy of being copied by others, and it is.

“If it was anything other than one of the best systems – the AMA over in WA were calling it the gold standard – they’re not terms I use, but that’s what they said, if it was anything other than a good system, then I doubt very much that the first ministers across the country would have agreed to copy it.

“It’s not a point of criticism of anyone else. They can speak to their systems. I’m simply making the point that we will not be getting to 3,000, because I don’t believe that 3,000 would be safe. That’s my judgment, and I’ll be accountable for that.”

Premier Andrews also listed the improvements made to the system following last year’s second wave of COVID cases that killed 801 people and is thought to have originated from the hotel quarantine system.

“We’ve ripped out the air conditioning in a number of these places and put new systems in, we’ve changed the way air flows, we rip up the carpet in all the common areas … so hallways for instance, and lino is put down so we can clean shared spaces where there could be a transmission to industrial standards,” he said.

“No one else does this. There’s 50 other points where we do things differently, sometimes significantly differently, sometimes it’s a smaller thing, but when you add all that together, it’s a very risk averse model.

“It needs to be, and I can’t rule out further changes.”

Nationwide, from 15 February, the new limits will be:

NSW 3,010 (now 1,505);
Queensland 1,000 (now 500);
Victoria 1,310 (now 1,120);
SA 530 (now 490);
WA 512 (now 512);
Total 6,362 (now 4,127).

In January, temporary cuts to the caps formed part of the biggest overhaul of the quarantine program since its inception, and also included a provision for passengers to wear masks on all domestic and international flights; for hotel staff to be tested daily and for ex-pats to require a negative result before boarding a repatriation flight.

Arrival caps were introduced in July and sat at 4,000, before increasing to 6,500 at the end of 2020 and then decreasing to just over 4,000 in January 2021.

Critics have argued limits have stopped Australians abroad being able to return home by reducing availability and increasing prices.

"I'm not having a go but......." What a load of horse****. Megalomainiac, narcissist, sociopath.

Also, you lot from other States wonder why NSW shakes their heads at you lot.

[ruprecht]

Sticking healthy people in hotels with closed windows for 14 days and making them breathe recycled air with an airborne pathogen lurking is a recipe for disaster.

This is not going to end anytime soon.

[Green.Dot]

Take some time to read the breathtaking arrogance from someone who had over 800 people die from decisions he was responsible for



"I'm not having a go but......." What a load of horse****. Megalomainiac, narcissist, sociopath.

You lot from other States wonder why NSW shakes their heads at you lot.

Bro, almost anyone in the industry thinks he is a f#}kwit. Our thoughts won’t stop him getting re-elected though.

[McLimit]

I know mate, but finally that ****wit is putting on paper how much of an a-hole he is. Meanwhile, the 'I stand with Dan' lemmings will ensure he remains in power for some time to come.

Bro, almost anyone in the industry thinks he is a f#}kwit. Our thoughts won’t stop him getting re-elected though.

Except Sunfish, he loves him :hmm:

[KRviator]

So let's look at those new numbers, then consider them as a function of the Australian population.

Interestingly, though completely unsurprisingly, NSW is again carrying the lions share of the incoming passenger load, vastly over and above their fair share. And as has been proven many times over, from all states, this bug can get out of HQ. This bug will get out of HQ again. But the likes of QLD and WA in particular, see absolutely no issue with closing their borders to NSW as a result of that leakage, even though they are happy to let NSW process the overwhelming majority of returning travellers - and in the case of WA, demanding "28 days pestilence free" before they'll even think about reopening their borders. The WA hard border to NSW went up 05 April 2020, reopened 08 December, was reintroduced December 17 and remains current. That's a total of 303 days (over 80% of the last year) of NSWelshmen being unable to travel to WA, either at all, or without quarantining.

Perhaps Gladys needs to call their bluff.... "Alright you lot, you want to lock out NSW citizens over 1 case when we're doing the heavy lifting, fine! I'm closing our HQ system for returning passengers. You want them home? You deal with it. We've done our bit for the cause, and I'm not going to have my constituents punished through border closures, lost holidays, cancelled weddings and missed funerals because you're a bunch of selfish, paranoid & un-Australian asreholes!"
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/464x299/hqcomp_fb12c7f04cb6540fce509ce6ab60bf0b291fc807.jpg

[LapSap]

I heard an interview from an expert from ANU yesterday. He said remote quarantine was NOT feasible.

An expert in what? Medicine? Transport logistics? Security? Air conditioning?
Not feasible from what perspective?
If he/she meant “hard work” or it might upset somebody rather than feasible, then tough sh1t. Get on with it.

[Telfer86]

Quite incredible that Andrews is boasting after nearly 1000 deaths

Does anyone believe the "aerosol transmission" being promoted by Andrews Govt right now to explain latest infections of HQ in Melbourne ?

When will Qld & Tasmania close their borders to Victoria again ?

(can't figure out why Qld would still be open to Vict , when they closed to parts of WA , but I am dumb so maybe someone could explain this to me)

Update Midday: Now two staff from Airport Travelodge infected , building evacuated more infections expected. Talking about a nebuliser or something
, looking like a breakdown in basic protocol or lack of commonsense. Also a staff infection at City Hyatt

So is Melb facing an illusive , highly complex mode of transmission that is so much more difficult than anywhere else ? or is it just a breakdown of basic sh*t same as July 2020 ?

[neville_nobody]

About time a few premiers were summoned to a meeting in Canberra about the functioning of the Commonwealth. The fact there are a few out there who think they are a independent country in itself is a concern. The hypocrisy of it is that they still want federal grants and welfare paid for them and for the people from other states to defend them when a Chinese Armada turns up at their doorstep yet they won't enable the constitution to function as it is written.

[WingNut60]

About time a few premiers were summoned to a meeting in Canberra about the functioning of the Commonwealth. The fact there are a few out there who think they are a independent country in itself is a concern. The hypocrisy of it is that they still want federal grants and welfare paid for them and for the people from other states to defend them when a Chinese Armada turns up at their doorstep yet they won't enable the constitution to function as it is written.
Regarding "want ...................the people from other states to defend them when a Chinese Armada turns up at their doorstep".
We may wish it, but we know better than to expect it.
And I can't help but see the irony in your expecting that an Asian invasion would target WA to the exclusion of the "eastern states".

[jrfsp]

About time a few premiers were summoned to a meeting in Canberra about the functioning of the Commonwealth. The fact there are a few out there who think they are a independent country in itself is a concern. The hypocrisy of it is that they still want federal grants and welfare paid for them and for the people from other states to defend them when a Chinese Armada turns up at their doorstep yet they won't enable the constitution to function as it is written.

"about the functioning of the Commonwealth" Quite right, they are responsible for quarantine after all!

[SOPS]

It looks like Melbourne has community transmission again. Another lock down coming??

[Foxxster]

An expert in what? Medicine? Transport logistics? Security? Air conditioning?
Not feasible from what perspective?
If he/she meant “hard work” or it might upset somebody rather than feasible, then tough sh1t. Get on with it.

go to the 59.30 mark.

Professor Peter Collingnon.

https://medicalschool.anu.edu.au/people/academics/professor-peter-collignon-am
he is a professor at the ANU, infectious disease expert. Goes for about 10 minutes. He goes through a number of things very well. And I think much better qualified than anyone posting here.

https://www.2gb.com/podcast/drive-with-jim-wilson-full-show-february-8/

[McLimit]

We may wish it, but we know better than to expect it.

We put well deserved **** on you, but really? You think that?

[bekolblockage]

So DA has reversed the decision to increase overseas intake numbers due to the “load” on the system.
I heard the tail end of the federal briefing last week and could have sworn I heard the CMO state that l, at that moment, there were a total of 9 Covid patients hospitalised in the whole of Australia and zero in ICU. (1 as of a day or so ago I understand ).
Is this the “load” he is talking about?

[clark y]

So apparently now this new strain is a hyper-infectious mutant strain.


https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/premier-dan-andrews-says-hyperinfectious-mutant-strains-a-wicked-enemy/news-story/a2e3b16ce1a698372b02f60e20444095

[Telfer86]

All very high powered Dan & the gang talking about hyper infective mutant strains & thermo nuclear vortex effect spread through nebulisers

Does anyone believe this s**t ?

[WingNut60]

We put well deserved **** on you, but really? You think that?
121 years of narking, patronising disparagement and we're supposed to feel warm and fuzzy about the eastern states? Really?

[jrfsp]

Well AMA Victoria seems to...id imagine they are fairly qualified to comment.....All comes back to hotels not being suitable for quarantine purposes…how many times do we need to be told.

Taken from ABC:"The AMA's Julian Rait said risks posed by new highly infectuous strains highlighted the need for better air flow at these sites.

"The use of these nebulisers then this emphasizes there's need for greater scrutiny of the ventilation in hotel quarantine and we also need to look at it much more carefully because we know of the variants arising from the UK and South Africa and so," he said.

On Twitter, he said that many city hotels were "woefully inadequate" for quarantine purposes.

"The AMA would like to see the original ventilation audit to demonstrate that the Holiday Inn was safe to use in the first place," Professor Rait tweeted.

[Foxxster]

Well AMA Victoria seems to...id imagine they are fairly qualified to comment.....All comes back to hotels not being suitable for quarantine purposes…how many times do we need to be told.

Taken from ABC:"The AMA's Julian Rait said risks posed by new highly infectuous strains highlighted the need for better air flow at these sites.

"The use of these nebulisers then this emphasizes there's need for greater scrutiny of the ventilation in hotel quarantine and we also need to look at it much more carefully because we know of the variants arising from the UK and South Africa and so," he said.

On Twitter, he said that many city hotels were "woefully inadequate" for quarantine purposes.

"The AMA would like to see the original ventilation audit to demonstrate that the Holiday Inn was safe to use in the first place," Professor Rait tweeted.

you are talking about Victoria. Who have shown themselves to be utterly incompetent. And when caught out, are led by someone whose default position is to blatantly and repeatedly lie.

if anyone thinks that a remote site managed ,using that word extremely loosely, by these fools would be any better than their keystone cops hotel quarantine then you need medical help yourselves. Of the psychiatric variety.

[Telfer86]

All is well Premier Andrews had assured us that our HQ is superior to that of NSW - "that is just a fact" & he also told us we teach the other states about
all this stuff in his late night conference after 1st infection (1 week ago)

He has also assured us that guests will be asked not to use nebulisers & requested us not to blame or become angry with the man who did as that would just be mean

The other states just don't understand they are backwards we are the superior "education state"

All fixed now

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

121 years of narking, patronising disparagement and we're supposed to feel warm and fuzzy about the eastern states? Really?

To be fair, Queensland and Tasmania have always copped plenty of narking, patronising disparagement as well. So would SA, except that nobody cares enough about it to be bothered.

[WingNut60]

To be fair, Queensland and Tasmania have always copped plenty of narking, patronising disparagement as well. So would SA, except that nobody cares enough about it to be bothered.
Very correct

[jrfsp]

SA now looking to close to greater MEL, i reckon TAS, NT, ACT maybe QLD will follow

[Telfer86]

SA & NT were closed at least a few days ago

We got the best hotel quarantine in the world

We got the best hotel quarantine in the world

We got the best hotel quarantine in the whole wide world

And we can all thank Uncle Dan..........

[SOPS]

SA closed to greater Melbourne from midnight. WA will follow shortly after I think.

[Telfer86]

They were already closed or required 14 days quarantine as does NT
Tas & Qld obviously so desperate for any tourist dollar still open (though Tas closed to some Melb Suburbs including CBD)

But the great news is that that Labour Socialist Left ideals & dictums have not been compromised


We got the best hotel quarantine in da world .........

[currawong]

Interestingly, though completely unsurprisingly, NSW is again carrying the lions share of the incoming passenger load

:}

KRaviator - you appear to be attributing a politician with altruism.

As the two are mutually exclusive I suggest you look elsewhere for a reason...

I would suggest money, as thats what usually drives them.

Is ($$)mandatory($$) hotel quarantine cashflow worth maxing out while it lasts?

All down to risk management I suppose.

[SHVC]

Every time DA opens his mouth an outbreak occurs, remember June last year his comment to SA “why would anyone want to go to SA” boom hard lockdown 900 dead. DA has a go at Premier Gladys telling her that his HQ is superior and now it’s happening again. Time for DA to go he is incompetent.

[McLimit]

121 years of narking, patronising disparagement and we're supposed to feel warm and fuzzy about the eastern states? Really?

I 100% support you guys moving on, best for everybody I reckon.

[McLimit]

Time for DA to go he is incompetent.

That's NOT going to happen, they love him down there. The more he lies, the more he locks them down, the more they love him.

[clark y]

Victoria is OK for now because the tennis is on.

[Buster Hyman]

Chairman Dan is the Donald Trump of Oz Politics.

[WingNut60]

I 100% support you guys moving on, best for everybody I reckon.
Yes. I'm afraid we'll never be able to provide the degree of forelock tugging and subservience that the "old states" believe to be their due..

[McLimit]

Yes. I'm afraid we'll never be able to provide the degree of forelock tugging and subservience that the "old states" believe to be their due..

Well balanced chips on both shoulders :ok:

[McLimit]

To be fair, Queensland and Tasmania

Nah, Tassie can stay, pretty cool joint, great whisky and beer.

[TWT]

They were already closed or required 14 days quarantine as does NT
Tas & Qld obviously so desperate for any tourist dollar still open (though Tas closed to some Melb Suburbs including CBD)

But the great news is that that Labour Socialist Left ideals & dictums have not been compromised


We got the best hotel quarantine in da world .........

In SA's case, that's incorrect. SA only required a test on arrival followed by self isolation until a negative test was returned. Then another test on Day 5 and Day 12.

I know this because I had planned to travel to SA next week.

[SOPS]

Different rules again


https://www.news.com.au/national/south-australia/french-naval-group-chief-executive-granted-exemption-from-hotel-quarantine-in-adelaide/news-story/accfbcc66cda29eb06dd88a3d4671f08

[currawong]

Hey McLimit, do you think this -

Take some time to read the breathtaking arrogance from someone who had over 800 people die from decisions he was responsible for

Might have something to do with why -

Also, you lot from other States wonder why NSW shakes their heads at you lot.

Seems you want it both ways.

Or does the need for a three week lockdown not fit the narrative...

[McLimit]

Ahhhh, 3 week lockdown? Lockdown where? What are you talking about?

[McLimit]

Different rules again

And why should he not be given an exemption??

[compressor stall]

Re the MEL Holiday Inn outbreak. To be fair, the same nebuliser driven outbreak (assuming that's what happened) could have happened in any other state undertaking hotel floor Q ( NT, not looking at you :) ). Personal baggage from your flight is certainly not searched in WA. Had he sick man arrived into Perth with his nebuliser, the same infection would have happened to a similar number of people and they may have been worse off with (until last week) no community mask wearing and limited testing.

SOPS - if you read the fine print of most the states, such exemptions have always been in the fine print. I'm not as intricately familiar with SA's as I have been with every other state, but I'd be surprised if it was different.

[currawong]

Ahhhh, 3 week lockdown? Lockdown where? What are you talking about?

The (Christmas) Northern Beaches outbreak, source remains undetermined.

"Also, you lot from other States wonder why NSW shakes their heads at you lot."

Indeed.

:hmm:

[currawong]

Re the MEL Holiday Inn outbreak. To be fair, the same nebuliser driven outbreak (assuming that's what happened) could have happened in any other state undertaking hotel floor Q ( NT, not looking at you :) ). Personal baggage from your flight is certainly not searched in WA. Had he sick man arrived into Perth with his nebuliser, the same infection would have happened to a similar number of people and they may have been worse off with (until last week) no community mask wearing and limited testing.

SOPS - if you read the fine print of most the states, such exemptions have always been in the fine print. I'm not as intricately familiar with SA's as I have been with every other state, but I'd be surprised if it was different.

Virus is airborne; it gets around fine with or without help...

[601]

could have happened in any other state undertaking hotel floor Q

If you test positive while in HQ in Qld, you are transported to a Covid ward at a hospital. You do not stay in HQ.

[compressor stall]

If you test positive while in HQ in Qld, you are transported to a Covid ward at a hospital. You do not stay in HQ.
Not in WA you don't. And you can also develop symptoms between the test a couple of days in and the ~10 day test.

Virus is airborne; it gets around fine with or without help...
Yes, clearly evidenced elsewhere. But likely the nebuliser helped it spread significantly.

[WingNut60]

If you test positive while in HQ in Qld, you are transported to a Covid ward at a hospital. You do not stay in HQ.
Seems eminently sensible.

[McLimit]

The (Christmas) Northern Beaches outbreak, source remains undetermined.

As has been pointed out so many times, a targeted lock down of a couple of LGA's NOT a whole city and NOT for a single case.

[Sunfish]

One of the Holiday Inn infected is in ICU and not doing well - 38 years old.

[SHVC]

One of the Holiday Inn infected is in ICU and not doing well - 38 years old.

This is the same person that owned the nebuliser, who would already have medical issues may asthma something unknown to the public. Nothing too see here cant blame every ICU case on C-19

[lc_461]

Re the MEL Holiday Inn outbreak. To be fair, the same nebuliser driven outbreak (assuming that's what happened) could have happened in any other state undertaking hotel floor Q ( NT, not looking at you :) ). Personal baggage from your flight is certainly not searched in WA. Had he sick man arrived into Perth with his nebuliser, the same infection would have happened to a similar number of people and they may have been worse off with (until last week) no community mask wearing and limited testing.

SOPS - if you read the fine print of most the states, such exemptions have always been in the fine print. I'm not as intricately familiar with SA's as I have been with every other state, but I'd be surprised if it was different.


In the early days of the pandemic nebulisers were banned for use in many hospitals, as were 'aerosol generating procedures'. I doubt in this case it could have been avoided. Someone got sick, maybe they already had respiratory issues and had their own nebuliser, which they used, leading to this spread in a place not designed to contain aerosols.

If however, the scenario was that the patient tested positive, became unwell and then was GIVEN this treatment by authorities... then that is a massive clusterf*ck on behalf of the VIC Health team/ whoever manages HQ at the moment, seemingly against their own hospital procedures.

[WingNut60]

As has been pointed out so many times, a targeted lock down of a couple of LGA's NOT a whole city and NOT for a single case.
So I'll ask again, if not for a single case then what is the correct number?
Please cite your expert reference for the correct number.

"More than one" is a meaningless but nefarious answer.

[KRviator]

Well, considering the WA CHO testified in court that their health system can successfully manage 500 new cases per day the answer is obviously not "1". That would utilise 650 hospital and 124 ICU beds, but would remain within the capability of the WA health system. That being the case, I would say anything more than 500 new cases per day, based on a population of 2.66 million should be the trigger to require a lockdown, because anything less than 500 can be managed by the (existing) health system. Your reference is Palmer v Western Australia (No 4) [2020] FCA 1221 [86] (https://www.judgments.fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/word_doc/0011/591914/J201221cor.docx?v=0.1.1).

If you want to extrapolate that to other states, on the assumption all health systems have the same capacity, that is 1,200 cases a day for Mexico and 1,500 for NSW. And that's per day remember....

[StudentInDebt]

That would utilise 650 hospital and 124 ICU beds, but would remain within the capability of the WA health system. given the WA health system only has 111 ICU beds I’m not sure this would allow the system to carry on in its’ usual form. The WA health COVID response plan (https://audit.wa.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Report-5_-Transparency-Report-Current-Status-of-WA-Healths-COVID-19-Response-Preparedness.pdf) suggests that ward closures and the use of private hospital capacity would be required to ramp up the ICU capacity and hospitals have plans to implement COVID/Non-COVID areas. This means routine operations and treatment may have to be cut back, I presume that’s what he meant by substantially increase the burden upon the health system..
Pretty sure most WA residents would rather see their Aunty Doris have a hip replacement than 500 new cases per day.

[Potsie Weber]

The (Christmas) Northern Beaches outbreak, source remains undetermined.

"Also, you lot from other States wonder why NSW shakes their heads at you lot."

Indeed.

:hmm:

undetermined or covered up?

[WingNut60]

...........I would say anything more than 500 new cases per day, based on a population of 2.66 million should be the trigger to require a lockdown, because anything less than 500 can be managed by the (existing) health system. ........

You forgot to mention the other half of the quoted sentence, the bit that mentions 70 deaths.
But then, that'd be OK, wouldn't it?

While you, Clive and Beryl may agree, apparently the Federal Court of Australia did not.

[KRviator]

You forgot to mention the other half of the quoted sentence, the bit that mentions 70 deaths.I didn't forget, nor intentionally omit it. You asked for a specific number of cases, I gave what I consider to be a reasonable number of cases based on testimony from a state CHO - incidentally the same one who also champions "28 days COVID free" to allow his state border to reopen to the rest of the country, and to hell with the socio-economic cost of that 28-day delay.
But then, that'd be OK, wouldn't it?To me, YES, it would! I make no secret of that fact, nor apologies for it. But in saying that, I am happy to accept personal responsibility for my health, and tolerate minor inconveniences (masks/social distancing/hand sanitiser on entry, for eg) to allow life to continue as normally as possible, as it does in NSW (who has kept borders open almost entirely throughout...). By the same token, I don't smoke so, personally, I don't consider the 8,000-odd deaths from preventable lung cancer a year as being "OK". But hey, the rest of Australia seems to think that killing 8,000 citizens a year by the sales of tobacco products is perfectly fine! So who's right?

My point is, if the Government has had a financial model for acceptable risk (including death) v reward for decades, and they threw it out the window for COVID. However, the Government - of all persuasions - is happy to rake in the billions of dollars from tobacco excise, despite knowing it is one of the leading causes of preventable deaths in Australia.

You can't have it both ways.

[StudentInDebt]

I didn't forget, nor intentionally omit it. You asked for a specific number of cases, I gave what Iconsider to be a reasonable number of cases based on testimony from a state CHOYou gave based on the summing up of his testimony by the court, the full paragraph ends
These numbers would remain within the capacity of the Western Australian health system to manage, but would substantially increase the burden upon the health system.

[KRviator]

Yes I did, and yes it does.

What is your point?

[jrfsp]

The issue with having active covid cases, regardless of borders, is that it kills demand. People are generally not willing to take the risk - especially so for corporate travel. Without corporate travel the golden triangle - and many other routes would be half, if not less, their standard capacity - and we can forget about yield

[StudentInDebt]

Yes I did, and yes it does.

What is your point?That your figure of 500 new cases per day should not be used as a threshold for a lockdown as you’ve taken it in isolation from the rest of the summation. There would be a significant impact on the provision of WA’s health services well before that figure is reached.

[dr dre]

The issue with having active covid cases, regardless of borders, is that it kills demand. People are generally not willing to take the risk - especially so for corporate travel. Without corporate travel the golden triangle - and many other routes would be half, if not less, their standard capacity - and we can forget about yield

Yep. Air travel has been decimated in nations where borders have remained open too, so I don’t know why people here think open borders would suddenly mean a return to normality. I remember in March before any borders were closed passenger numbers were plummeting, the free market was choosing not to travel whilst this pandemic is active.

This slowdown of aviation is because of a worldwide health crisis and it’ll be over when the health crisis is no longer an issue, not borders.

[Sunfish]

Lets get one thing straight...

Since the prohibition on cruise ships and an isolated case or two on cargo ships, there is only one other way that the country is now subjected to receiving infected individuals - international air travel.

That firstly means that bleating by international pilots and airlines is just that - self interested crap. The Federal Government and the states have already been overly generous, in my opinion, in permitting any international arrivals of passengers at all.

Given that generosity, it is even worse when we hear International pilots carping about lockdown conditions, etc., when the need for such measures is directly caused by their employers activities.

It should also be of interest to domestic RPT pilots because without the constant stream of infected individuals from overseas we would have beaten this virus by now and could have reopened the whole domestic RPT and tourism market

My suggestion is that there should be only two quarantine locations Christmas and Manus Islands. No one gets to land here unless they are tested Covid free for fourteen days.

[currawong]

Well, considering the WA CHO testified in court that their health system can successfully manage 500 new cases per day the answer is obviously not "1". That would utilise 650 hospital and 124 ICU beds, but would remain within the capability of the WA health system. That being the case, I would say anything more than 500 new cases per day, based on a population of 2.66 million should be the trigger to require a lockdown, because anything less than 500 can be managed by the (existing) health system. Your reference is Palmer v Western Australia (No 4) [2020] FCA 1221 [86] (https://www.judgments.fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/word_doc/0011/591914/J201221cor.docx?v=0.1.1).

If you want to extrapolate that to other states, on the assumption all health systems have the same capacity, that is 1,200 cases a day for Mexico and 1,500 for NSW. And that's per day remember....

"Can manage", but why would you want to?

As long as this thing is allowed to replicate, like in Europe it can and will mutate (remember not that long ago viewed as unlikely) and possibly come up with something that can defeat our efforts at vaccination.

Then its back to square one.

I don't want to go all the way back to square one. Do you?

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Sunfish accusing other people of ‘bleating’ and ‘carping’ has just made my day. :ok:

[Global Aviator]

Lets get one thing straight...

Since the prohibition on cruise ships and an isolated case or two on cargo ships, there is only one other way that the country is now subjected to receiving infected individuals - international air travel.

That firstly means that bleating by international pilots and airlines is just that - self interested crap. The Federal Government and the states have already been overly generous, in my opinion, in permitting any international arrivals of passengers at all.

Given that generosity, it is even worse when we hear International pilots carping about lockdown conditions, etc., when the need for such measures is directly caused by their employers activities.

It should also be of interest to domestic RPT pilots because without the constant stream of infected individuals from overseas we would have beaten this virus by now and could have reopened the whole domestic RPT and tourism market

My suggestion is that there should be only two quarantine locations Christmas and Manus Islands. No one gets to land here unless they are tested Covid free for fourteen days.

Seriously Christmas Island and Manus Island? Yeah that’s a great solution, logistically very easy to achieve and really helps getting cargo into Aus, brilliant.

Let’s look at what is currently working, erm Howard Springs! There have been no cases escape, so now maybe it’s time to ramp up the facility and capability. No doubt Wagner’s will get their way and build another purpose built facility next to Wellcamp. HQ is far from perfect but what is the actual percentage of cases that have escaped into the community? So the holes in the ole Swiss need to be filled in. Perfect it ain’t but it’s all that is currently available.

Or the old fook off we’re full, is that what you prefer. Best tell that to all the Aussies who have been trying to get home since March. Some with over 8 cancelled flights, others paying huge fares due to the caps. The QF charter flights are great but nowhere near enough.

I certainly want all kinds of travel back, even domestic travel without having to worry about borders and quarantine.

The solution?

[McLimit]

To me, YES, it would! I make no secret of that fact, nor apologies for it.

HEAR, HEAR!

But in saying that, I am happy to accept personal responsibility for my health, and tolerate minor inconveniences (masks/social distancing/hand sanitiser on entry, for eg) to allow life to continue as normally as possible, as it does in NSW (who has kept borders open almost entirely throughout...).

I will take the consequences of personal responsibility, everyday of the year and twice on Sundays. How society ever let itself get to the point where cretins are thanking State Premiers for 'keeping me safe' from something that can be controlled by washing your ******* hands and not ******* coughing and sneezing on people is beyond my comprehension.

By the same token, I don't smoke so, personally, I don't consider the 8,000-odd deaths from preventable lung cancer a year as being "OK". But hey, the rest of Australia seems to think that killing 8,000 citizens a year by the sales of tobacco products is perfectly fine! So who's right?

So the Premier that's keeping you safe from the flu is allowing thousands of their residents to suck a pox into your lungs, and a fair smack them to die, all because it makes them back a few quid in federal taxes?

My point is, if the Government has had a financial model for acceptable risk (including death) v reward for decades, and they threw it out the window for COVID. However, the Government - of all persuasions - is happy to rake in the billions of dollars from tobacco excise, despite knowing it is one of the leading causes of preventable deaths in Australia.

Sooooooo, medical ethicists have been making decisions on who lives/who dies in hospitals for decades, where the money is best spent and on who based on value to the community and economy. But NOW.......NOW, all of a sudden this is HORRENDOUS!!!

You can't have it both ways.

It appears you can have it both ways if you are from a certain age group and generation. To my way of thinking there appears to be a significant degradation in your mental thought processes once you get to this age, all of a sudden the risks you weighed up and took in your younger years go out the window and you now want to be all nice and cosy in your cotton wool. Problem is, everyone else in the community pays the price.

[SOPS]

On the 3pm news Mr McGowan is hinting the hard border with Victoria might come back.

[SHVC]

How is DA still in control of Victoria! It’s Febuary he has canceled ANZAC day already but hey let’s hold a tennis match. This guy is flawed on every way.

[compressor stall]

My suggestion is that there should be only two quarantine locations Christmas and Manus Islands. No one gets to land here unless they are tested Covid free for fourteen days.

Stupidest thing I have read so far on this thread, and that's saying something.

[PoppaJo]

On the 3pm news Mr McGowan is hinting the hard border with Victoria might come back.
Most of Victoria couldn’t give two ****s. I think the same could be said for most of the country.

[SOPS]

How is DA still in control of Victoria! It’s Febuary he has canceled ANZAC day already but hey let’s hold a tennis match. This guy is flawed on every way.

No Anzac Day, but BLM marches and Tennis are all fine?

[WingNut60]

Most of Victoria couldn’t give two ****s. I think the same could be said for most of the country.
Correct. So why the constant bleating on this thread?

[Telfer86]

TWT you are right , I just had a quick glance. But that is the point really convoluted , complex rules that are continually changing

Looks like WA will shut to Vict , Qld now have restrictions & are watching very closely

Staff infected from two quarantine hotels in Melb, the nebuliser theory is a wonderful red herring. Took Dan & the gang less than
two months to muck up hotel quarantine yet again after the July 2020 master class. Still all boasting about how how the Vics are the best & we teach all the plebs
from the other states how to hotel quarantine

There will be more transmissions from other quarantine hotels in Melbourne , nothing is more certain

These characters have destroyed aviation & travel not Alan or Jayne or even CASA

Oh yes we couldn't do Anzac day ,but "Mums the word" for BLM , Dan went to ground for a couple of days

PJ : well maybe those who have commercial interests that cross interstate borders or work for airlines or any hotac related field or drive a taxi or simply want a
holiday in WA do actually give as you say a sh## or two

[currawong]

Hey McLimit, let me see if I've got this right...

You are concerned about risk aversion in others.

But are risk averse when it comes to the economy...

"You can't have it both ways."

"It appears you can have it both ways"

Yes, it appears you can. :ok:

[SOPS]

Two more cases just now.. here we go again!!!


And now there are people able to slip past staff to deliver a PlayStation to a room!! It’s all going so well. I bet by Saturday, cases in Melbourne will be in the 100s!!

[goodonyamate]

Two more cases just now.. here we go again!!!


And now there are people able to slip past staff to deliver a PlayStation to a room!! It’s all going so well. I bet by Saturday, cases in Melbourne will be in the 100s!!

pretty sure you’re in WA (or SW China, same sort of ‘leadership’ style) where the brainwashin and fear mongering is at its finest.

the 2 cases are household contacts of previous cases. Is it great? No. But lets put it in perspective. It’s not like it’s running rampant just yet. Unless you’re considering a future in WA politics, in that case keep the FUD up.

[Green.Dot]

Two more cases just now.. here we go again!!!


And now there are people able to slip past staff to deliver a PlayStation to a room!! It’s all going so well. I bet by Saturday, cases in Melbourne will be in the 100s!!

Can we just get NSW to take over the HQ & contact tracing for Vic, lock Dan up in prison, throw away the key and then we can get on with life?

[blubak]

pretty sure you’re in WA (or SW China, same sort of ‘leadership’ style) where the brainwashin and fear mongering is at its finest.

the 2 cases are household contacts of previous cases. Is it great? No. But lets put it in perspective. It’s not like it’s running rampant just yet. Unless you’re considering a future in WA politics, in that case keep the FUD up.
Absolutely right,'put it in perspective'.
Theres always going to be a risk & when someone bends or breaks the rules including concealing a neubiliser the risk becomes a fact.
Then you have the people in quarantine who are making accusations about staff not wearing masks etc whilst not wearing a mask themselves (watch the newsclip & you will see the loudmouth).
There are plenty of people who have made mistakes & of course Andrews made a big 1 but this virus is being controlled & it seems many on here just take pleasure out of every piece of negative news they can focus on just like the time wasters ringing up radio talkback programs & complaining because they have nothing better to do.

[SHVC]

The AO is worth to much money to ML shame that ANZAC day isn't worth as much to DA tho. After its completion and tennis players are gone then he will consider locking down ML. If he does it now the threat of loosing the open is a real possibility I bet there wont be advanced announcement about cancelling the F! in November if cases are happening in June!

[blubak]

Two more cases just now.. here we go again!!!


And now there are people able to slip past staff to deliver a PlayStation to a room!! It’s all going so well. I bet by Saturday, cases in Melbourne will be in the 100s!!
And i guess you believe the guy who slipped past staff(if that is the case) did the right thing??
Lets keep the negativity going,the media are reporting 4 or 5 new cases today,they were in fact actually announced yesterday & all linked to holiday inn case but that fact doesnt get headlines.

[Foxxster]

Two more cases just now.. here we go again!!!


And now there are people able to slip past staff to deliver a PlayStation to a room!! It’s all going so well. I bet by Saturday, cases in Melbourne will be in the 100s!!


heard just now another snap 5 day lockdown is planned. I imagine they will wait for today’s and possibly tomorrow’s case numbers but seems quite likely.

[SHVC]

Snap 5 day lockdown archives what?? Incubation period is at least 14 days. WA and QLD were just lucky further cases didn’t emerge definitely not a result of “snap” lock downs and “slamming” the borders shut.

[KRviator]

"Can manage", but why would you want to?I don't want 500 cases, however, as to why I would want to?

Maybe to keep Australia as one nation, rather than the 6 different micro-nations we have become. Maybe to give certainty to everyone from tourist operators to airlines to Joe Q Public and his dying father that 'ol Joe can get to his funeral. Maybe because I live in NSW and work in WA and would like to actually get paid at some point to keep my house - because I have not been to work for nearly a year, am not eligible for JobKeeper (employer turnover hasn't dropped enough) and am not eligible for any Centrelink benefits ("You're still employed, you haven't resigned nor been sacked".) Maybe because I don't consider it fair for NSW to have brought home tens of thousands more Australians than any other state with the risk of an HQ-breach that that entails - yet they are getting screwed over time and time again by Premiers who won't do their fair share. Maybe because I think people should themselves take responsibility for their healthcare & wellbeing instead of praising scumbags like McGowan "who kept us safe for so long". Or maybe it is because I firmly believe if you give a politician an inch, they'll take a mile. People endorsing the locking out of 30% of Australia's citizens over one case, whose source is known only reinforce such punitive measures remain acceptable for the smallest infraction of anything the CHO, Police Minister (in his role as EMO) or Premier might dream up in future, and I think that is wrong.

Take your pick of any of the above. If there is a genuine risk, fine. One case in 8.5 million people is not a genuine risk to a state that warrants a border closure, no matter how you try to show it is.
As long as this thing is allowed to replicate, like in Europe it can and will mutate (remember not that long ago viewed as unlikely) and possibly come up with something that can defeat our efforts at vaccination.

Then its back to square one.

I don't want to go all the way back to square one. Do you?So wash your bloody hands, wear a mask and don't sneeze over people in the food court at the local shops. Take some responsibility for your own wellbeing instead of expecting Australia to bend over and take it up the asre "to keep you safe".

[dr dre]

I don't get it.

All of you complain that states that lockdown when outbreaks occur say they should follow NSW's approach and just use contact tracing (even though they did a partial lockdown) because otherwise it destroys the economy.

Now in Victoria you're all piling on DA for....... using contact tracing and keeping the economy going during a major income event (the AO)

It seems people just decide who to like/hate based on what political party the person involved belongs to and then they look for evidence solely to back up that position.

[Chronic Snoozer]

So wash your bloody hands, wear a mask and don't sneeze over people in the food court at the local shops. Take some responsibility for your own wellbeing instead of expecting Australia to bend over and take it up the asre "to keep you safe".

And get tested. Amen.

[Potsie Weber]

Snap 5 day lockdown archives what?? Incubation period is at least 14 days. WA and QLD were just lucky further cases didn’t emerge definitely not a result of “snap” lock downs and “slamming” the borders shut.

A snap lockdown gives contact tracers a chance to try and get ahead of the virus and identify and quarantine those potentially at risk of having been exposed. That takes time. It’s a good idea, but the downside is that it is preceded by panic buying and people fleeing the lockdown area, which is not good for containment.

[SHVC]

I don't get it.

All of you complain that states that lockdown when outbreaks occur say they should follow NSW's approach and just use contact tracing (even though they did a partial lockdown) because otherwise it destroys the economy.

Now in Victoria you're all piling on DA for....... using contact tracing and keeping the economy going during a major income event (the AO)

It seems people just decide who to like/hate based on what political party the person involved belongs to and then they look for evidence solely to back up that position.

Maybe the issue is DA and the Vic goverment are putting international sporting events ahead of Australian people and Australian livelihoods. Look at what is happening now not even two months ago Victorian residents couldn’t even cross their own border to get home. They allow the Australian open importing foreign ppl purposely for a sporting event whilst canceling Australian national day which is far more important than any AO and F1 event.

[Telfer86]

Mystery modes of transmission with hyper mutant ninja infective ability, the naughty guest used a nebuliser, so it couldn't have been a breakdown
of basic infection control , breach of discipline or any fault of the Govt

Was the CHO of Victoria biting his tongue or trying very hard not to laugh when he was agreeing that the nebuliser was a "plausible theory indeed"

Uber driver accidently delivered a nebuliser to the other hotel Grand Hyatt instead of a pizza , where other transmission to staff occurred

Victoria leads the world with hotel quarantine procedures , Dan tells us all the other states learn from us & come asking humbly for advice

The fact that Vict had a little issue to deal with in 2020(circa 900 dead people) and didn't accept international arrivals from July until December in no way diminishes
the superiority of Dan & the gang with hotel quarantine

He also took the great leap forward to invent the "traffic light" system to judge the plebs outside Victoria

No doubt there will be excitable buzzword baby talk in todays press conference , we might see just a little bit of self-congratulations and "shout outs" to the incredible team

Before you can say "Dans your Uncle" yes another lockdown , transmission from two Hotels in less than two months after second chance

You show em Dan , you tell em

[Lockhart]

Melbourne about to announce 5 day lockdown just like Perth a few weeks ago. Not confirmed cabinet is meeting.

[SRFred]

CHO ..... Chief Humour Officer ..... rather sad situation actually.

[Telfer86]

The guy was just wincing as he was saying it , somehow I don't guys like the former Fed CMO would have played along

More months of stand downs on the way for flight & cabin crew

[WingNut60]

A snap lockdown gives contact tracers a chance to try and get ahead of the virus and identify and quarantine those potentially at risk of having been exposed. That takes time. It’s a good idea, but the downside is that it is preceded by panic buying and people fleeing the lockdown area, which is not good for containment.

Now, with a lock-down imminent, the major supermarkets COULD initiate buying limits in advance.
But they won't, will they?

[WingNut60]

Maybe to keep Australia as one nation, rather than the 6 different micro-nations ....................

The hurdle to that is, not all of Australia wants to be moulded on the image of NSW.

[jrfsp]

Melbourne airport cafe worker, worked 8 hour shift before testing positive....potentially spreading all around the country

[SHVC]

So DA hard kick down again only 4 reason to leave home! Australian Open better be canceled now as it does not fall into the 4 reasons.

[Buster Hyman]

It seems people just decide who to like/hate based on what political party the person involved belongs to and then they look for evidence solely to back up that position.
Unfortunately, whilst being correct in this statement, it still starts at the top. There was early consensus, a national Cabinet etc, but it has devolved along party lines in finger pointing and willy waving (for those with one). The point scoring and posturing is just phenomenal.

I doubt there's a legal pathway for the Feds to assume responsibility, but I'd be interested to know if the GG can have an impact here.

[Sunfish]

The scary number, whose name I forget, is the reinfection time. The time from when a person is infected until they start infecting others. That number for "ordinary" Covid is something like 4-5 days. This new British variant that is causing us grief has a period of 48 to 72 hours.

That means that the victim is infectious before or at the same time as they develop symptoms.

The Five day lockdown is to enable the contact tracers to keep up with the virus. There are already about a thousand contacts isolating in Victoria.

What you should be concerned about is anyone who has traveled through terminal 4.

[jrfsp]

I just cannot understand why we are continuing with this madness..how many more shutdowns will it take before quarantine is moved out of major cities

[murder most fowl]

I just cannot understand why we are continuing with this madness..how many more shutdowns will it take before quarantine is moved out of major cities

Scomo is a true politician. He won't stop international arrivals yet as it will make him look heartless and over the top. Let the states stuff up hotel quarantine until the people demand a change.

He used to blow up about border closures, now not a peep. It doesn't change anything and makes him look powerless compared to the premiers. He knows which way the wind blows.

[SOPS]

I think a push for change is coming. To move HQ out of the cities.

[rcoight]

....It seems people just decide who to like/hate based on what political party the person involved belongs to and then they look for evidence solely to back up that position.

With respect - and I sometimes agree with what you have to say - you are as guilty of this as anyone else here.

[McLimit]

You Bloody Champion Glady's :ok: The voice of reason.

[McLimit]

It seems people just decide who to like/hate based on what political party the person involved belongs to

Not me, I partially decide who I like and trust based on whether they're a liar.

and then they look for evidence solely to back up that position.

Plenty of evidence to back up my decision.

[cessnapete]

Just for information, does Australia/ NZ have a vaccination programme in place.? We can’t eliminate C19 in the long term, and vaccines seem the way out to a life of some normalcy worldwide.
Or is the idea to stay shut off from the rest of the World with a 0 infection C19 policy, as they fortunately have now.

[Global Aviator]

I think a push for change is coming. To move HQ out of the cities.

Tick tock tick tock more QF on the clock....... Howard Springs surely makes sense to ramp up! It is there, has 3000 beds, yes needs a ****e load of logistics to get more staff ready. However to date it has shown it works. Arrivals from hotspots constantly. I’ve only been bleating on about this for 6 months.

I’d put money on Wagner’s and Wellcamp to.

Now the real common sense one........ Cruise ships off shore......

[Square Bear]

So DA hard kick down again only 4 reason to leave home! Australian Open better be canceled now as it does not fall into the 4 reasons

Daniel Andrews has declared the AO Stadium as a workplace and the Tennis Players and support staff are declared as ESSENTIAL WORKERS, which means the AO goes on sans spectators.

In his interview he also stated that discussion should be had to stop Australian citizens from overseas coming back to Australia.

Hardly surprising I suppose, Andrews has form for locking Victorians out of their home State, so I guess he is now simply ramping it up to stop Australians returning to Australia no matter what State they are from.

Thankfully he is only the Victorian Premier and his failing are confined to that State.

[KRviator]

Thankfully he is only the Victorian Premier and his failing are confined to that State.No...They're not. His failings can - and have - had nationwide ramifications. And that's a serious problem.

The WA border is supposed to reopen to NSW without restriction from 2359 Tuesday. That will not happen if a Mexican spreads so much as a sniffle in NSW. Look what happened last time, open for, what, a week? Then closed for another 2 months.

[dr dre]

Not me, I partially decide who I like and trust based on whether they're a liar.


Jeez is there a politician out there who hasn’t lied at one point in time? I bet everyone of them has told a veritable lie at least once.

[McLimit]

OK, I'll tighten it up for you. A serial liar, one that has no qualms throwing all around him under the bus, one who lies about his part in 800 deaths. Granted, Gladys may have lied about 1 or 2 roots, but so have I, but neither of us are in the aforementioned league.

[currawong]

I don't want 500 cases, however, as to why I would want to?

Maybe to keep Australia as one nation, rather than the 6 different micro-nations we have become. Maybe to give certainty to everyone from tourist operators to airlines to Joe Q Public and his dying father that 'ol Joe can get to his funeral. Maybe because I live in NSW and work in WA and would like to actually get paid at some point to keep my house - because I have not been to work for nearly a year, am not eligible for JobKeeper (employer turnover hasn't dropped enough) and am not eligible for any Centrelink benefits ("You're still employed, you haven't resigned nor been sacked".) Maybe because I don't consider it fair for NSW to have brought home tens of thousands more Australians than any other state with the risk of an HQ-breach that that entails - yet they are getting screwed over time and time again by Premiers who won't do their fair share. Maybe because I think people should themselves take responsibility for their healthcare & wellbeing instead of praising scumbags like McGowan "who kept us safe for so long". Or maybe it is because I firmly believe if you give a politician an inch, they'll take a mile. People endorsing the locking out of 30% of Australia's citizens over one case, whose source is known only reinforce such punitive measures remain acceptable for the smallest infraction of anything the CHO, Police Minister (in his role as EMO) or Premier might dream up in future, and I think that is wrong.

Take your pick of any of the above. If there is a genuine risk, fine. One case in 8.5 million people is not a genuine risk to a state that warrants a border closure, no matter how you try to show it is.
So wash your bloody hands, wear a mask and don't sneeze over people in the food court at the local shops. Take some responsibility for your own wellbeing instead of expecting Australia to bend over and take it up the asre "to keep you safe".

Hang in there mate.

Things will turn a corner, for the better, in about 18 days.

Just have to keep a lid on it till then.

[DirectAnywhere]

I think a push for change is coming. To move HQ out of the cities.

I think you may be right. I suspect this may well be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Dan Andrews' primary political concern now is how to get Vic out of lockdown and keep it out. He can't continue like this. There will be a revolt at some stage.

I'm forecasting Victoria's temporary ban on international arrivals may become more permanent. People stuck overseas are not his political problem, they're a federal problem and people are blaming the federal government for it. Banning any international arrivals will keep the virus out while simultaneously turning a state quarantine problem in to a federal one and, given the federal government is from the other camp, I think he'll be more than happy to do it at this point.

Other Labor premiers may follow suit. Watch this space I reckon.

[SOPS]

I think you may be right. I suspect this may well be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Dan Andrews' primary political concern now is how to get Vic out of lockdown and keep it out. He can't continue like this. There will be a revolt at some stage.

I'm forecasting Victoria's temporary ban on international arrivals may become more permanent. People stuck overseas are not his political problem, they're a federal problem and people are blaming the federal government for it. Banning any international arrivals will keep the virus out while simultaneously turning a state quarantine problem in to a federal one and, given the federal government is from the other camp, I think he'll be more than happy to do it at this point.

Other Labor premiers may follow suit. Watch this space I reckon.

I agree. Mark McGowan has been asking the Feds for months for the ability to use Christmas Island (and other places) for months. I can see him saying.. ok, we can’t cope, only 200 ( insert a number) arrivals per week now.

[Angle of Attack]

Well whippedy doo, I think the only benefit of this outbreak is that the media are now seriously asking if hotel quarantine is safe. I don’t care how many thousands or millions of people you process through hotel quarantine, the fact is that there are leaks pretty much every couple of weeks. How expensive will be the 5 day lockdown in VIC? How expensive was Perth, Brisbane and previous Mel lockdown? I’ll tell you how expensive, thousands more times expensive than if you had listened to the epidemiologists a year ago saying Hotel Quarantine is a Short term solution and built/ramped up facilities with remote cabins like Howard Springs/wellcamp etc. Sometimes I really doubt the health advice line the pollies make when this obvious one has been ignored. But I feel a change and I think the public won’t accept taking these infected Australians anymore unless they are dealt with appropriately. Get them out of hotels limit the numbers and put them only in Gold Standard facilities like Howard Springs.

[PoppaJo]

Certainly a rush on Biz Jets from Avalon and Essendon in the last few hours for the well heeled looking to get out of the place.

[Square Bear]

put them only in Gold Standard facilities like Howard Springs.

You do realise that Howard Springs is a mere 30 minute drive from the Darwin CBD, a mere 12 mins drive from Palmerston City, and is situated within Howard Springs? Where do you think that the Quarantine workers come from...at a quick guess .... if not the Darwin CBD, most likely its suburbs and what the bet they frequent the Shops, Pubs etc where everyone else in Darwin goes.

Anyway, who would have thought life was fraught with such dangers, ...might cancel my Licences (Aviation, Car, Motorbike, and Jet-ski and sell my pushy and get rid of my jogging shoes...damn, almost forgot, my surfboard, body board and snorkelling equipment....plus...plus...plus.

Point is, yes manage the risk...and some Politicians seem to manage it better than others, and seem to have less need to hyperventilate or make populous statements when they get in front of a microphone or TV camera.

But, hey....at least I can sit back and watch the Australian Open Elite "Essential Workers" play tennis in the gazetted Work Place whilst locked up. :ok:

(Politcal spin ...just love it, makes my day when I see it)

[Lockhart]

I think a push for change is coming. To move HQ out of the cities.
However, according to the fantastic scientists and health scholars they have come to the conclusion that
city hotels, are very adequate a third lockdown was just a bad luck situation.
A 5 day lockdown is just the entree. It will take that amount of time to find a few more cases, and
then Mr Dan will offer the main course come Wednesday. It's like he got bored after 122 pressers last year
and he needs another dose.

[blubak]

I agree. Mark McGowan has been asking the Feds for months for the ability to use Christmas Island (and other places) for months. I can see him saying.. ok, we can’t cope, only 200 ( insert a number) arrivals per week now.
In agreeance here too,its probably time now that the federal govt takes the job of looking after australian citizens & puts a system in place that they control.
If scomo likes the NSW system which has worked very well,that is what he needs to use but whatever is decided the feds need to run it with their rules,their staff & no input from any state.
The guy who was using the neubiliser is claiming he told authorities he had it,maybe he did,maybe he didnt,we will never know.
Whatever the truth is & whoever we decide to blame the fact remains these outbreaks are crippling travel & the economy whilst the blame game continues & scomo stands by & watches without deciding anything.
There have been outbreaks from HQ in a few states now & it will happen again somewhere but there seems to be a united front unfolding from many states now saying the feds need to take notice,have a look at the comments from the qld act premier today..

[SHVC]

So, for everyone that thinks HQ should occur in remote areas where would you suggest? what township do you propose to dump these internationals? where do these internationals land? not including military QLD has a few airports that can handle it NSW maybe one, VIC has one other (Avalon) so point is there will always be double handling of infectious ppl in the transport from plane to donga. Then a bus might break down 200km from destination imagine that what a nightmare punters just had a 12hr flight and now 2hrs into a 4.5hr bus ride good luck controlling them.

Just say, if Sco Mo caves to this idea he ask each state and territory leader to nominate a regional area within their own state for this new quarantine facility, where do you think Dan will nominate? the mad man of the west wants to use another island FFS he doesn't even want them in his state. I would like to hear what the Toowoomba residents think of Pooches idea she even said she would want the workers to live there at this new camp hope she will pay 6 figures ill do it, but her election has cone and gone has yrs to get the ppl to like her again.

The issue here is Dan, he is the worst kind remember last year he said the buck stops with him he is ultimately responsible etc well he has not taken any responsibility and washed his hands clean but thinks he is in a position to have digs at other states well wake up Dan you need to call other states and get some advice on handling this.

[currawong]

Go back a few months, the debate was suppression vs elimination.

Elimination was "unrealistic". Suppression was the way forward for our situation.

This is what suppression looks like.

[LapSap]

https://www.smh.com.au/national/victoria/contact-tracing-faltered-as-hyper-infectious-covid-strain-pushes-state-into-lockdown-20210212-p5723f.html

Ah yes, The Gold Standard.

[Green.Dot]

The issue here is Dan, he is the worst kind remember last year he said the buck stops with him he is ultimately responsible etc well he has not taken any responsibility

Did anyone actually expect him to change?

And this to take the “gold standard” award at the national HQ championships....

https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-feel-like-a-criminal-traveller-says-he-told-authorities-about-nebuliser-20210212-p571ze.html

If the average Victorian doesn’t feel let down by their Government (again), they should.

[lucille]

Green.Dot... indeed However the population in Australia has been terrified into submission. The polls say that Victorians think the sun shines out of Dan’s rear end. Queenslanders reflected the odious PM all because they felt she “saved” them from certain death. I’m guessing the Vics also feel a lifetime Debt of gratitude to Dan for saving them from a horrible certain death.

There is no light at the end of this tunnel.

[jrfsp]

While Howard Springs is hardly remote, if it did escape into the community, the economic cost of shutting down what is really a fairly minor population centre would be far less for the national economy, and "only" impacting 150K ish people.

I think the real success of howard springs is the fact that its not a hotel - with risk of transmission is greatly reduced, with individual cabins with their own air con. The nebulizer incident would be far more unlikely in this setting.

[Green.Dot]

While Howard Springs is hardly remote, if it did escape into the community, the economic cost of shutting down what is really a fairly minor population centre would be far less for the national economy, and "only" impacting 150K ish people.

Using similar logic I would have thought Cairns, Townsville and Rocky would be good options. Would fill up hotels supporting an already struggling tourism industry. Long enough runways, customs, quarantine & each is a suitable divert complimenting the others. Hospitals, the works. Wouldn’t fit in line with the Chooks “keeping QLDers safe” mantra though and wouldn’t get up with North QLD MPs.

[SOPS]

SHVC... Christmas Island was used at the very beginning of this mess. There is no good reason why it can’t be used again.

[Lockhart]

If you google earth, Curtin Air Base their is so much room you could build a city around it. Hundreds of dongers
a med unit etc. Fly straight in, quarantine 14 days, once cleared return to your own state. Do this on a ongoing rolling
basis you cold all aussies home soon enough. Put it this way this, operation would be so much cheaper
than a total state lockdown.

[currawong]

It is rapidly becoming academic where quarantine is anyway.

At the end of the month, quarantine, border and frontline medical are to be vaccinated.

Which will break the chain right where the problem lies.

[On eyre]

It is rapidly becoming academic where quarantine is anyway.

At the end of the month, quarantine, border and frontline medical are to be vaccinated.

Which will break the chain right where the problem lies.

Not necessarily - as I understand it vaccination will protect that person from becoming seriously ill from the virus. It is still unsure whether vaccination will stop the subsequently infected person from being contagious and thereby possibly passing the virus on. I stand to be corrected on this however.

[Dannyboy39]

Not necessarily - as I understand it vaccination will protect that person from becoming seriously ill from the virus. It is still unsure whether vaccination will stop the subsequently infected person from being contagious and thereby possibly passing the virus on. I stand to be corrected on this however.
66% reduction in transmission for AZ, I’m not sure about the other vaccines.

Not enough for Australia I guess though...

[SHVC]

UK seem to be having good results not sure if it’s the vaccine or the lockdown tho.

[Lockhart]

Not necessarily - as I understand it vaccination will protect that person from becoming seriously ill from the virus. It is still unsure whether vaccination will stop the subsequently infected person from being contagious and thereby possibly passing the virus on. I stand to be corrected on this however.
So another words it reduces Covid-19 down to flu status or even better. So what's the problem? If you catch it, so what it's not going to kill you.
Then you may as well lockdown for flu, which no one has done in all the winters that have passed.

[blubak]

Green.Dot... indeed However the population in Australia has been terrified into submission. The polls say that Victorians think the sun shines out of Dan’s rear end. Queenslanders reflected the odious PM all because they felt she “saved” them from certain death. I’m guessing the Vics also feel a lifetime Debt of gratitude to Dan for saving them from a horrible certain death.

There is no light at the end of this tunnel.
I dont think the sun shines where you suggest so you are assuming a lot.
Everybody can decide for themselves who they believe is to blame or where the blame lies.
I believe the guy who had the neubiliser has run to the age newspaper making claims he is innocent,i thought he was in icu in a serious condition,im sure i am mistaken though as the government are to blame!
A couple of weeks ago we had tennis players telling the media how badly they had been treated & they didnt understand the rules but it wasnt too many days later apologies were issued by many of the same people but anyway im sure again that is the fault of the government.
I have listened to Andrews today along with Sutton & the testing commander & just a short time ago Prof Kelly,the chief med officer.
Are they all idiots/fools?,mmm maybe they are but i dont think so.
I spoke to a relative in a european country this morning & she said she wished their govt had acted quickly instead of them now being in a lockdown with no end in sight & daily numbers around 1000 & up to 100 deaths per day.

[currawong]

" For most pathogens and most people, a vaccinated person cannot pass on the disease at all."

"Most vaccines do completely eliminate the pathogen or prevent it ever becoming established"

" I have been an immuno-geneticist for 20 years"

From a parallel thread over on Middle East. Contributor is double_barrel

[rattman]

66% reduction in transmission for AZ, I’m not sure about the other vaccines.

Not enough for Australia I guess though...
Numbers, new infections and a deaths, world wide are on the decline. Its not one thing, its a combination of things

[brokenagain]

Coronavirus Worldwide Graphs (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

Worldwide daily cases have been declining for over a month now, and are at the lowest rate since October last year. Or course it’s not reported in the news, good news doesn’t sell.

[blubak]

Coronavirus Worldwide Graphs (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

Worldwide daily cases have been declining for over a month now, and are at the lowest rate since October last year. Or course it’s not reported in the news, good news doesn’t sell.
Spot on,its only the negative headlines that make people take notice.

[dr dre]

Worldwide daily cases have been declining for over a month now, and are at the lowest rate since October last year. Or course it’s not reported in the news, good news doesn’t sell.

I wonder if some who claim “the media are lying to us” actually read the media that supposedly isn’t reporting this news?:

Coronavirus R number falls below 1 in UK for first time since July - The Guardian (https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/12/coronavirus-r-number-falls-below-one-in-uk-for-first-time-since-july)

Global COVID-19 cases declined 17 per cent last week, WHO says - 9 News

​​​​​​​ (https://amp.9news.com.au/article/9dc78144-20ee-4cf9-8033-4a1badd8acb3)Seeds of hope as new global COVID-19 case numbers sag - SBS News (https://www.sbs.com.au/news/audiotrack/seeds-hope-new-global-covid-19-case-numbers-sag)

[Clare Prop]

So, for everyone that thinks HQ should occur in remote areas where would you suggest? what township do you propose to dump these internationals? where do these internationals land? not including military QLD has a few airports that can handle it NSW maybe one, VIC has one other (Avalon) so point is there will always be double handling of infectious ppl in the transport from plane to donga. Then a bus might break down 200km from destination imagine that what a nightmare punters just had a 12hr flight and now 2hrs into a 4.5hr bus ride good luck controlling them.

Just say, if Sco Mo caves to this idea he ask each state and territory leader to nominate a regional area within their own state for this new quarantine facility, where do you think Dan will nominate? the mad man of the west wants to use another island FFS he doesn't even want them in his state. I would like to hear what the Toowoomba residents think of Pooches idea she even said she would want the workers to live there at this new camp hope she will pay 6 figures ill do it, but her election has cone and gone has yrs to get the ppl to like her again.

The issue here is Dan, he is the worst kind remember last year he said the buck stops with him he is ultimately responsible etc well he has not taken any responsibility and washed his hands clean but thinks he is in a position to have digs at other states well wake up Dan you need to call other states and get some advice on handling this.

Here in the West we have the "bare bases" Curtin and Learmonth, taxpayers have paid for massive runways that could take international flights, RFDS for anyone that gets really sick, just like anyone else in the bush.
RAAF bare bases - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAAF_bare_bases)

[WingNut60]

.............the mad man of the west wants to use another island FFS he doesn't even want them in his state...........

Though not exactly "in his state", Christmas Island has very close ties with W.A. and is, to a large extent, administered and supported from W.A.
If you had ever forced yourself to go west of the Penrith Panthers Leagues Club you might know about that.

Downside of even considering Christmas Island is 7000 ft runway.
It is serviced from W.A. by using 737s only.

[SHVC]

That’s all well and good, but how do you look after all these ppl in these remote places like Learmonth and Curtin?! McGoose wants to keep it out of the indigenous communities among other like FIFO you’re just moving it closer. I just watched McGoose press conference seems he is unable to string a sentence together unless he is reading a script sounds very disconnected with what is actually happening when he speaks.

[WingNut60]

That’s all well and good, but how do you look after all these ppl in these remote places like Learmonth and Curtin?! McGoose wants to keep it out of the indigenous communities among other like FIFO you’re just moving it closer.
A security fence and a 30 km walk through the spinifex to an aboriginal community is less incentivising for most people than "out the back door for a Big Mac then hit the leagues clubs".

I just watched McGoose press conference seems he is unable to string a sentence together unless he is reading a script sounds very disconnected with what is actually happening when he speaks.
At least he might know how to use punctuation in a sentence. You know, full stops, capital letters, commas and stuff.

[Clare Prop]

Christmas has got ex cons whose visas have been cancelled, waiting to be deported. Christmas Island detention centre site of riot as detainees set fires - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-06/reports-of-riot-at-christmas-island-detention-centre/13036366)

The detention centre is a federal facility, not a state one.

[Dannyboy39]

Coronavirus Worldwide Graphs (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

Worldwide daily cases have been declining for over a month now, and are at the lowest rate since October last year. Or course it’s not reported in the news, good news doesn’t sell.
Most of Europe is in lockdown currently - heck I've not seen my family for around 7 weeks now. As we've seen, as soon as lockdowns end, the virus comes back... if that doesn't sound obvious. If there wasn't a real reduction in cases, something would've been wrong.

My theory is that the vaccine is taking more of an effect than what people are reporting - most of the people receiving it, certainly in the UK, will be the most exposed to it (i.e. health workers / elderly). Perhaps a situation where if someone has had a vaccine, they are less likely to go for a test thinking they are totally protected.

Case numbers are not the only indicator - I understand in Turkey they have reduced testing, but their case positivity rate has shot up? The UK were doing 300,000 tests a day, whereas a country in Eastern Europe where I was flying to semi-often was doing about 3,000 a day.

[DirectAnywhere]

Avalon is the obvious one. Long runway, lots of open space to place temporary accomodation.

Established water and electricity infrastructure. Close enough to major hospitals for those that may require that level of support and intervention.

[WingNut60]

Christmas has got ex cons whose visas have been cancelled, waiting to be deported. Christmas Island detention centre site of riot as detainees set fires - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-06/reports-of-riot-at-christmas-island-detention-centre/13036366)

The detention centre is a federal facility, not a state one.

Correct. And can probably (?) not be used as a quarantine facility while it is being used for immigration detainees.
Also, take a look at my previous post regarding runway length.

But what's your point with regard it being a federal facility and not state?

[Sunfish]

latest word is that the Victorian 5 day lockdown will be extended to 2 weeks.

[dr dre]

latest word is that the Victorian 5 day lockdown will be extended to 2 weeks.

Although it could be extended I was reading this in another forum, and it seemed that people were misinterpreting the State of Emergency order (which will always be made for a minimum 2 weeks) with the Lockdown order. Only 1 positive case today is good news.

[wheels_down]

latest word is that the Victorian 5 day lockdown will be extended to 2 weeks.
I think that was pretty well cleared up today. That is an order drafted by a Legal that 14 days.

As he said. No surprises in the next 4 days. And we are back to last Thursday’s setup.

However one single surprise then you can bet 2 weeks.

[Angle of Attack]

Quarantine centres historically not in remote locations, they were close but just outside of the cities. The only reason I say Howard Springs is gold standard is because the rooms are individual cabins with no stagnant corridors. They all have a veranda and items can be delivered safely as it’s outdoors. I don’t care where you build them, build them in the suburbs if you wish but individual Dongers are the way to go, there is almost no chance of aerosol transmission if protocols are followed. The fact is that almost all the epidemiology experts have been stating this pretty much since a year ago. You can’t trust State Governments, they quite frankly aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed, basically they couldn’t make it to Federal Government and went to the next best thing.

[Double_Clutch]

What “Phase” will pilots fall into, regarding the vaccine?

[SHVC]

Depends, could be 1B if they see pilots as 'critical and high risk workers' I would imagine cabin crew would fall in this category. If not that, definitely 2A I believe Pilots would be 'other critical and high risk workers'

[RodH]

Just a thought?
From memory there is an island about 500k south of Melbourne that started off as a penal colony a couple of hundred years ago so maybe that would be an ideal spot to quarantine everyone who arrives in Australia . Would be easy to set up as they already have had training in locking people up as soon as they arrived in Australia, sure it was a while ago but I'm sure they could restart the locking up process and it's too far to swim to the mainland so there's no escape until the detainees are better.
I hope Scott and Dan read this as it will surely help them.

[empacher48]

Just a thought?
From memory there is an island about 500k south of Melbourne that started off as a penal colony a couple of hundred years ago so maybe that would be an ideal spot to quarantine everyone who arrives in Australia . Would be easy to set up as they already have had training in locking people up as soon as they arrived in Australia, sure it was a while ago but I'm sure they could restart the locking up process and it's too far to swim to the mainland so there's no escape until the detainees are better.
I hope Scott and Dan read this as it will surely help them.​​​​​​

Stuff: Hundreds fly from MIQ in NZ to Australia (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300228947/miq-as-a-transit-lounge-hundreds-fly-to-australia-soon-after-leaving-isolation)

There already seems to be a group of islands a few thousand kilometres east of Australia that are providing Quarantine for Australians coming back home. It appears cheaper and easier than doing it in Australia.

At least the country doesn’t go into full-blown lock downs when there are breaches in the MIQ system..

[dr dre]

What “Phase” will pilots fall into, regarding the vaccine?

International crew classed as 1A. Domestic crew 1B. There should only be a few weeks difference between those two groups, so most active pilots should have access to the vaccines within the next few months.

[SHVC]

International pilots are treated no different unless you can provide another reference to what the government website has. 1A has border force that’s as close to a pilot you will get, 1B earliest for aircrew no way they’re going ahead of health care and aged care workers. Pilots are not that important.

[SRFred]

Just a thought?
From memory there is an island about 500k south of Melbourne that started off as a penal colony a couple of hundred years ago so maybe that would be an ideal spot to quarantine everyone who arrives in Australia .

Not only that heaps of money has been spent in recent years restoring Port Arthur ready for "clients".

[Lockhart]

In Vic, 1 case yesterday, 2 cases today, come Monday tomorrow is pretty much d-day regarding Wednesday announcement.
Is 1 or 2 per day enough to lift the lockdown or not. If lockdown continues and job keeper finishes that will be like dropping a nuke on Vic.
I remember lockdown 2, went for 2 weeks then extended to 6 weeks finished up being 4 months. I don't think Dan's got the guts
to do a three peat of this. Victorian citizens will just rebel.

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

International pilots are treated no different unless you can provide another reference to what the government website has. 1A has border force that’s as close to a pilot you will get, 1B earliest for aircrew no way they’re going ahead of health care and aged care workers. Pilots are not that important.
I think you’ll find you’re wrong and dr dre is right.

[dr dre]

The “border workers” 1A classification isn’t necessarily just ABF personnel, it’s all who have a role in international travel, like International airport workers with face to face contact with travellers (https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/Media-releases/2021/First-for-COVID-19-vaccine-and-vaccination-hubs-in-WA) (pilots I believe included in this, in addition to being “travellers” themselves).

For the 1B classification that includes “critical workers” such as people working in supply and distribution of essential goods and services (https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020/11/atagi-preliminary-advice-on-general-principles-to-guide-the-prioritisation-of-target-populations-in-a-covid-19-vaccination-program-in-australia_0.pdf) which would encompass pilots.

[jrfsp]

3 new cases in NZ, connected to airport catering staffer. Lets see if the bubble gets dropped again.

[Global Aviator]

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6232038133001?fbclid=IwAR1M7HtTCNTwHiDFvs3a5PPHgg9z-MIzXzj0ib3-RRByG8E8o9FmSmpxCzU

And...... HS Q being ramped up

[jrfsp]

US marines arriving into Darwin will be provided quarantine facilities at RAAF Darwin, and "The Marine force has rented a secure facility outside Darwin – understood to be Bladin Point, about 20km south of Darwin – for the majority of personnel to complete their quarantining". Source: The guardian.

So we can find suitable facilities for US marines, but for our own citizens, lets put them in hotels in the CBD....Shows where the Fed gov's priorities are...

If im not mistaken, the facilities at Bladin point will be the former 'immigration holding centre', essentially donga's, not unlike Howard Springs. EDIT. The bladin point village, former INPEX workers village, accommodation for up to 750 people!!

How many facilities are there like this around the country.....

[C441]

So we can find suitable facilities for US marines, but for our own citizens, lets put them in hotels in the CBD....Shows where the Fed gov's priorities are...
I'm not sure that facilities suitable for a few hundred US Marines would necessarily be equally suitable for families, including children, returning from o/s.

[brokenagain]

I'm not sure that facilities suitable for a few hundred US Marines would necessarily be equally suitable for families, including children, returning from o/s.

I’d love to see civvies being put up in Tin City on the RAAF base for 2 weeks. Scomo would hear their whinging all the way from Engadine.

[Duck Pilot]

I’ve heard on a Melbourne talk back radio station the other day of potentially using cruise ships as quarantine facilities, together with Puckapunyal Army Base. Probably an effective means to prevent people from escaping!

[Lockhart]

3 new cases in NZ, connected to airport catering staffer. Lets see if the bubble gets dropped again.New Zealand is imposing a three-day lockdown in its most populous city beginning Sunday, after three new locally transmitted Covid-19 cases were reported on Saturday.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced the lockdown for Auckland, home to 1.5 million people, during a news conference on Sunday. The lockdown will end at 11:59 p.m. on Wednesday.


She defiantly has more intelligence than Dan by 2 days.

[currawong]

At least the country doesn’t go into full-blown lock downs when there are breaches in the MIQ system.

Um, stage 4 for Auckland and stage 3 for the rest of the country as of about now.

Yes, the bubble is off.

Yes, you could quarantine in NZ then travel on to Australia within the bubble.

If you booked today, your slot would come up in.....June.

:rolleyes:

[empacher48]

Um, stage 4 for Auckland and stage 3 for the rest of the country as of about now.

:rolleyes:

Try Level 3 for Auckland and 2 for the rest of the country. Level 4 cannot be put in place for individual provinces and is country wide only.

As in August, because the contact tracing team hasn’t figured out where they got it from, lock down to make sure it’s not being spread through the community without people knowing.

Unlike the community cases a few weeks ago, in November and October where the source can be traced back to MIQ, no alert levels were changed because contact tracers and genomic testing could identify a source.

If the contact tracing is good enough and you can quickly find the source and close contacts NZ does not change alert levels.

When there is no clear source, then yes alert levels change.

Compare NZ’s reaction to Victoria or WA, if NZ know where the case came from and close contacts are known (takes no longer than 24 hours for NZ contact tracers to identify close contacts, 48 hours for casual and casual+ contacts), so in the case of the Holiday Inn situation NZ would not have changed alert levels for that.

[SHVC]

Does it matter, what ever lock down there is its a massive set back to recovery. NZ has just reaffirmed that you cant eliminate this virus as they have seen twice now.

[empacher48]

Does it matter, what ever lock down there is its a massive set back to recovery. NZ has just reaffirmed that you cant eliminate this virus as they have seen twice now.

Elimination is not a one shot wonder and forget about it. It’s an acceptance that humans and human made processes do fail and having no tolerance for letting the virus rage rampant in society.

NZ has successfully eliminated the virus in its community 6 times now, twice using changes to alert levels and 4 times now using simple contact tracing without changing the alert levels. They have eliminated the virus twice as often without sweeping changes to society.

They have recorded 2,330 total cases and 25 deaths through a pandemic, while keeping a far more liberal border quarantine process than Australia.

[SHVC]

Chill out bro. As you pointed out, NZ eliminated it 6 times so they have not eliminated it because it’s come back 6 times. Maybe they have just stopped waves of it like NSW. Point is you will never eliminate this virus even with the vaccine.

[empacher48]

Chill out bro. As you pointed out, NZ eliminated it 6 times so they have not eliminated it because it’s come back 6 times. Maybe they have just stopped waves of it like NSW. Point is you will never eliminate this virus even with the vaccine.

I am chill, however, NZ has eliminated it.

But the world will not eradicate it.

As the epidemiologists keep saying elimination is not a point in time, but a continual process of outbreaks, crushing them and moving on.

We can eliminate it as we have done with things like typhoid and to an extent measles. The diseases are still out there, won’t be going away in a hurry, but it does not run rampant and out of control. It is a very easy process, vaccine is one step, more effective treatments are the next step. Until these two methods are widespread, social methods of control are the only guaranteed way to continue elimination.

Australia has eliminated the virus, evidence of lockdowns going on in states and the zero tolerance attitude for rampant disease spread is elimination. Each state may use the social tools available at its disposal and vary between states how they are used, but all methods witnessed across all states of Australia are an elimination process.

The world has only eradicated smallpox and it took a very very long time and a multi-national response of elimination in each country.

It may appear to be semantics; elimination vs eradication but both have very different outcomes, although as individual countries work towards elimination, eventually we will reach eradication, if it’s possible.

[neville_nobody]

We can't afford to eliminate it. It will bankrupt all airlines, tourism, cafes, restaurants etc. The amount of food being wasted by the Perth and Melbourne lockdowns alone is disgraceful, both on a financial and ethical point of view.

There will be 3rd world countries who simply will just have to live with it as they can't play the lockdown game as that will kill people through starvation and poverty

[clark y]

I hope the vaccine works as advertised or the timeframe to a successful eradication may be too long and we will and up as one of those 3rd world countries.

[Chris2303]

I hope the vaccine works as advertised or the timeframe to a successful eradication may be too long and we will and up as one of those 3rd world countries.

Will end up as a third world country????

[Lockhart]

I’ve heard on a Melbourne talk back radio station the other day of potentially using cruise ships as quarantine facilities, together with Puckapunyal Army Base. Probably an effective means to prevent people from escaping!
Heard from the same radio station I think, that the Fox group that own Avalon want to set up the airport as a quarantine base with quarantine facilities
which they think will take 8-10 weeks. Lindsay being Dan's best mate is asking for a little bit of cash for this to go ahead.

[clark y]

Chris2303, yeah I know but given time we'll lose our status of being "the only third world country where you can drink the water".

[WingNut60]

................... The amount of food being wasted by the Perth and Melbourne lockdowns alone is disgraceful, both on a financial and ethical point of view.


Sorry? I can't speak for Melbourne but what is your source for food wasteage in Perth?
Why would there be? Food going out of date in restaurant freezers over the five day lockdown?
I am sure there was some but doubt that it was measureable.

[601]

The amount of food being wasted by the Perth and Melbourne lockdowns alone is disgraceful, both on a financial and ethical point of view.
I am sure that the elderly would rather some food being buried that they being the centre of the burial.

[Hasherucf]

I can't help to think that Qantas will have to lay off or put 1000's of staff on standdown at the end of Jobkeeper. Virgin will finish 3000 jobs at the end of March.

I'm sure Scomo and Joyce have already had this conversation. Not seen any reporting about this topic. Unless Scomo is going to pull a rabbit out of the hat by the end of March it's gonna be a bloodbath.

[neville_nobody]

Sorry? I can't speak for Melbourne but what is your source for food wasteage in Perth?
Why would there be? Food going out of date in restaurant freezers over the five day lockdown?
I am sure there was some but doubt that it was measureable.

In the past weeks there has been several newspaper articles from restaurateurs in both Perth and Melbourne and a high profile seafood distributor who are all destroying fresh food that can't be sold due to snap lock downs by governments.
The seafood distributor claimed it was over a million dollars worth of produce. You can't hold seafood for over a week in your fridges.

If this continues as is then it's only the beginning. There will be bankruptcies in hospitality and tourism and if the State Governments continue with the uncertainty as to what is going on, the airlines will follow as there is no demand for travel as the population has no idea if they will be allowed to leave their home. A lock down over Easter would probably be the worst possible scenario for airlines as they are claiming that travel is looking good at that time. If all that gets shut down then it could be the beginning of the end for aviation.

[wheels_down]

I’m not overly familiar with the respective EBAs and the technical terms surrounding them, but can’t say Virgin move staff from JobKeeper to Unpaid leave?

Virgin is bare bones as it is I don’t really see the point in laying off Domestic NG crews which is the bulk of team members.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

If you think things are bad now , wait till winter , especially in the south , it will spread like wildfire and then our jobs will evaporate.
The move away from jobkeeper means nothing to the companies, sure they were able to milk a little for themselves but having the staff lose jobkeeper is no skin off the companies nose .

[neville_nobody]

For pilots it will just mean you are part time or stood down until you are made redundant or bankruptcy which ever occurs first.

I can't see any airline receiving a bail out from government regardless of circumstances.

The only real solution for airlines is for the State Governments to actually agree on not shutting the borders all the time. However it will take some significant financial shock before they are dragged kicking and screaming to that position. We only have to look at QLD, they shut down the State then expect a Federal Government handout. Until they and the general population start taking in the wallet it won't change.

[ruprecht]

The move away from jobkeeper means nothing to the companies, sure they were able to milk a little for themselves but having the staff lose jobkeeper is no skin off the companies nose .

Yeah, not so sure about that.

The only reason I’m not taking any leave is because of jobkeeper. Once jobkeeper ends I will start emptying my leave bank. I’m confident I’m not the only one.

[ManillaChillaDilla]

Scooter and Neville nailed it.

The end of JobKeeper means the end of employment for many. Ironically timed around Easter.

Those taking day off payments while others go broke unfortunately typify the sad state of affairs within Australia as a whole.

MCD.

[Servo]

Yeah, not so sure about that.

The only reason I’m not taking any leave is because of jobkeeper. Once jobkeeper ends I will start emptying my leave bank. I’m confident I’m not the only one.

I dont have any leave or LSL left. Already used it all up :( we are on the precipice of disaster at home.

[wheels_down]

Scooter and Neville nailed it.

The end of JobKeeper means the end of employment for many. Ironically timed around Easter.

Those taking day off payments while others go broke unfortunately typify the sad state of affairs within Australia as a whole.

MCD.
Why does it mean the end of employment? Stood down for another 6 months does not equal unemployment? It equals no cash coming in.

What cost to Virgin is there by having its crews stood down for 6 months without pay, vs making them redundant? I mean if they are going to be stood up in 6 months what’s the point of paying out a redundancy? Jayne will do whatever is cheaper in the long term.

[ruprecht]

Scooter and Neville nailed it.

The end of JobKeeper means the end of employment for many. Ironically timed around Easter.

Those taking day off payments while others go broke unfortunately typify the sad state of affairs within Australia as a whole.

MCD.

My point is that once jobkeeper ends there will be an extra cash drain on the the airlines as some employees start using their leave. I’m unclear whether the airlines have factored this into their cash reserve calculations.

[currawong]

Try Level 3 for Auckland and 2 for the rest of the country. Level 4 cannot be put in place for individual provinces and is country wide only.

As in August, because the contact tracing team hasn’t figured out where they got it from, lock down to make sure it’s not being spread through the community without people knowing.

Unlike the community cases a few weeks ago, in November and October where the source can be traced back to MIQ, no alert levels were changed because contact tracers and genomic testing could identify a source.

If the contact tracing is good enough and you can quickly find the source and close contacts NZ does not change alert levels.

When there is no clear source, then yes alert levels change.

Compare NZ’s reaction to Victoria or WA, if NZ know where the case came from and close contacts are known (takes no longer than 24 hours for NZ contact tracers to identify close contacts, 48 hours for casual and casual+ contacts), so in the case of the Holiday Inn situation NZ would not have changed alert levels for that.

You are right of course. Typo on my part.:O

You are also right that it had been eliminated.

Reintroduced through a leaky quarantine and eliminated again.

I am of the belief that the current method of control, swift, brief restrictions in order for contact tracers to catch up is the best they have come up with so far.

It has worked, well and a precautionary 3 or 5 days is stand out better than a reactive 3 weeks or months.

[DirectAnywhere]

My point is that once jobkeeper ends there will be an extra cash drain on the the airlines as some employees start using their leave. I’m unclear whether the airlines have factored this into their cash reserve calculations.

The language and tone from the Feds around support for specific industries such as tourism and aviation is starting to soften. Frydenburg was interviewed on AM this morning. Given his language, you’d expect to see economy wide measures such as Jobkeeper end but a new package of support for specific industries only (that can’t be called Jobkeeper but would be materially similar) announced in the next few weeks.

Start about 4 mins in. Sabra Lane mentions aviation specifically, Frydenburg discusses QF cancelling 1500 inbound flights to QLD in January and goes on to say specific industry measures are under consideration now. In other words, I think, DON’T PANIC.


https://www.abc.net.au/radio/adelaide/programs/am/am/13133946

[Lockhart]

My point is that once jobkeeper ends there will be an extra cash drain on the the airlines as some employees start using their leave. I’m unclear whether the airlines have factored this into their cash reserve calculations.
Well this is a rumour network and what I heard at around 5.25pm while the radio was in the background, a worker in the construction industry was advised
don't bother coming to work till the end of March. What does the construction industry know that we don't? He couldn't could he, put
Vic into a 4 week lockdown. The first was called a circuit breaker.

He wasn't prepared to make any call today. It was 1 case today.
Well I hope I'm wrong, very very wrong, though if cases are 1 tomorrow and the next I wonder what the hell Dan is going to say on Wed.
Maybe I'm tapping into Dan's brain to much and he might just think 'well job keeper ends in March, why not March. That's time on my side'. This guy loves stress and
he enjoys applying stress to others.

[wheels_down]

though if cases are 1 tomorrow and the next I wonder what the hell Dan is going to say on Wed.
.
‘There is a 14 day incubation period’
‘UK Strain’
‘This isn’t the 2020 Virus we are dealing with here’
‘For all we know it could be spreading like wildfire’
‘We need to be absolutely sure’
‘I don’t apologise for taking the medical advice’

Extend for a further 9 Days. :hmm:

[SRFred]

Remember he has a ticking clock on his emergency powers and they expire in a couple of weeks.

[Lockhart]

About 3 weeks ago wasn't their a chap 26yo that had the UK strain went to a stack of places in the Glen Waverley area
such as Bunnings, Dan Murphy's then when found out that he had the virus isolated though all the hot spots he visited
produced no other cases. No lockdown then and 2 cases today connected to the Holiday Inn so no community transmission.
If the same tomorrow then lockdown should and will end tomorrow.

[highflyer40]

I'm not sure that facilities suitable for a few hundred US Marines would necessarily be equally suitable for families, including children, returning from o/s.

Im also not sure that facilities (or lack there of) would be suitable for your law abiding citizens following the rules. Should an Australian citizen who has been living their life overseas and just found out their parent has 1 month to live so chooses to fly home (accepting quarantine) be expected to live in a military camp for 2 weeks? What the military may accept and the public will accept or two completely different things... rightly so.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Dan Andrews grilling (https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/leigh-sales-challenges-daniel-andrews-at-daily/13157362)

[Green.Dot]

Dan Andrews grilling (https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/leigh-sales-challenges-daniel-andrews-at-daily/13157362)

Nice work Leigh, very valid questions for the struggling businesses.

Judging by his lack of composure under the pressure of an interview, no surprise he can’t keep a clear mind during the decisions/or lack of he has made since Jan 2020.

2 or more cases tomorrow and the lockdown fun will continue I reckon.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Nice work Leigh, very valid questions for the struggling businesses.

Judging by his lack of composure under the pressure of an interview, no surprise he can’t keep a clear mind during the decisions/or lack of he has made since Jan 2020.

2 or more cases tomorrow and the lockdown fun will continue I reckon.

He’s fronting the presser but in reality he is ‘following advice’. Perhaps Sutton should have been asked the questions as well.

[Sunfish]

Assuming no new community transmission by tomorrow night I think we will unlock. The lockdown plan assumed a hundred or more new cases, we aren't anywhere near that......yet.

[1A_Please]

Assuming no new community transmission by tomorrow night I think we will unlock. The lockdown plan assumed a hundred or more new cases, we aren't anywhere near that......yet.
The question is whether unlock is back to where we were last week or a different level of restrictions and therefore only a partial reopening. Typically we haven't immediately reopened completely and have had a stepped approach. Who knows this time? He wants a full stadium for the AusOpen finals as it looks good on TV so may be we will go straight back this time. He never discloses the medical advice he uses (probably because it doesn't exist) so whatever he does he will say it is consistent with the medical advice.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Barely a grilling..

When he stated this isn’t the 2020 virus but the “highly contagious” UK variant, that is about to run rampant - why does no one challenge?

Unbelievable the crap these guys are allowed to sprout unchallenged.

So many people are absolutely buying into the continuing fear campaign BS.

We are a dumb bunch here in Aus nowadays.

[SHVC]

Even dumber that we will be one of the last countries to be vaccinating. Two have full approval but they’re still fluffing around first jab scheduled 25th Feb.

[dr dre]

Barely a grilling..

When he stated this isn’t the 2020 virus but the “highly contagious” UK variant, that is about to run rampant - why does no one challenge?

Unbelievable the crap these guys are allowed to sprout unchallenged.

So many people are absolutely buying into the continuing fear campaign BS.

We are a dumb bunch here in Aus nowadays.

Not really.

Yes the B117 variant is more highly contagious (https://theconversation.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-covid-19-variants-153366).

So why hasn’t it easily spread in Australia? A couple of reasons. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-06/uk-variant-of-coronavirus-is-more-infectious-what-about-spread/13126870)Workers in high risk jobs were maintaining social distancing aware of their higher risk probably. Good contact tracing and quick testing.

Hotter weather also means less chance of spread. But the answer isn’t to look the other way and let it spread just because it’s warm, as a latent amount of virus in the community could explode by winter, and whilst the vaccine is on the way the program won’t be completed by October.

So you can see the logic in stopping this variant (or any variant really) not being allowed to spread around even at a low level now.

[1A_Please]

Even dumber that we will be one of the last countries to be vaccinating. Two have full approval but they’re still fluffing around first jab scheduled 25th Feb.
Initial shipment of Pfizer only arrived in Australia yesterday. It needs to be checked that it has not degraded during shipping and then be shipped on a per-capita basis to each capital city. This is probably inefficient but politically unavoidable. Initial A-Z vaccinations have not yet arrived in country and real rollout of it won't commence until CSL ramps up local production next month.

We are fortunate to be one of the safest countries in the world when it comes to Covid-19. US, UK etc had to rush approval of vaccinations in advance of official sign-off by those countries drug agencies. We had the luxury of waiting and seeing if there were any issues with these drugs not detected in pre-release testing. Regardless, the vaccination program will run for 6-8 months so there is little likelihood of any borders opening in the meantime particularly as it will also depend on other countries rolling out a vaccination program throughout their populations. Unfortunately, there is no shortcut back to anything approaching normal.

[SHVC]

I don’t think we will see normal for years.

[wheels_down]

The new and improved vaccines which will most likely arrive in around a year rendering the current obsolete, and will be next years final mission.

Vaccinate this year with the first concept.
Vaccinate next year the bullet proof version 2.

2023 onwards it starts to die off.

Xmas of 2023 we are in the green. Full steam ahead.

25/26 recruitment should start to pickup in this industry. Concerns around pilot numbers probably a few years before entering the next decade.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Not really.

Yes the B117 variant is more highly contagious (https://theconversation.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-covid-19-variants-153366).


From the link - With that said, the basics of how we’re supposed to live our lives and how we’re supposed to control this are essentially unchanged. The mitigation measures that we have in place, things like social distancing, wearing a mask, avoiding indoor shared spaces, reducing any unnecessary risks, are still the best measures that we have to try to control this.

And that is the nub of the problem. Is ‘more highly contagious’ significantly different to ‘highly contagious’? By how much? (Could it be worse than a fate worse than death?)

Language like this doesn’t stop the virus. Hyper-infectious (https://www.abc.net.au/radio/newsradio/daniel-andrews-announces-snap-coronavirus-lockdown/13153786). Hyperbole perhaps.

And belies instances like this Perth Outbreak (https://www.abc.net.au/radio/newsradio/perths-covid-patient-tests-positive-for-highly/13111554), where there was oddly no transmission beyond patient zero.

And is disputed routinely by epidemiologists (https://www.3aw.com.au/epidemiologist-disputes-premiers-claim-that-covid-variant-is-moving-at-hyper-speed/).

I’m not sure the evidence-based case has ever been succinctly made by politicians for measures above and beyond what are already in place for COVID MK 1. Nor is the raw ‘health advice’ shared or explained when it differs significantly from other states’ CMOs.

As for Dan’s claim ‘we’re not going to shop around for advice’, it beggars belief that health officials wouldn’t share information and base their decisions on what works best rather deliberately choose to go their own way, which is how I take that comment.

[jrfsp]

The uptake of the vaccine will be interesting, particularly of the AZ vaccine, if further boosters are required. Its not like the population is as risk of catching COVID unlike most parts of the world.

[Buster Hyman]

So many people are absolutely buying into the continuing fear campaign BS.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x705/capture_65369317d418c77aca3a7fc65b383f5ab5c45be8.jpg

[Chris2303]

I don’t think we will see normal for years.

I agree entirely.

Even then it won't be the normal that we used to know

[Dannyboy39]

Initial shipment of Pfizer only arrived in Australia yesterday. It needs to be checked that it has not degraded during shipping and then be shipped on a per-capita basis to each capital city. This is probably inefficient but politically unavoidable. Initial A-Z vaccinations have not yet arrived in country and real rollout of it won't commence until CSL ramps up local production next month.

We are fortunate to be one of the safest countries in the world when it comes to Covid-19. US, UK etc had to rush approval of vaccinations in advance of official sign-off by those countries drug agencies. We had the luxury of waiting and seeing if there were any issues with these drugs not detected in pre-release testing. Regardless, the vaccination program will run for 6-8 months so there is little likelihood of any borders opening in the meantime particularly as it will also depend on other countries rolling out a vaccination program throughout their populations. Unfortunately, there is no shortcut back to anything approaching normal.
They were absolutely not rushed in the U.K. and USA. And the Aus authorities have approved it anyway?

[dr dre]

The uptake of the vaccine will be interesting, particularly of the AZ vaccine, if further boosters are required. Its not like the population is as risk of catching COVID unlike most parts of the world.

More publicity of pandemics and health awareness spurred last year’s flu vaccine uptake to roughly 70% of the Australian population (https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/Article/2020/09/01/Australia-tracks-35-jump-in-flu-vaccine-shipments).

With Covid Vax it will surely be more, given Covid has greater consequences, there was no government publicity campaign for the flu vax, and most importantly a Covid vax will be free for all as opposed to fluvax which a lot of people had to pay for.

[currawong]

They were absolutely not rushed in the U.K. and USA. And the Aus authorities have approved it anyway?

Approved through the normal process per other vaccines.

Not under emergency use provisions or under a temporary authorisation.

Due in large part to having the luxury of time to do so, due to the low rates of infection.