All borders to reopen. [Archive] - Page 29

common cents

7th Aug 2021, 04:13

From The Lancet April 2021

Vaccine efficacy is generally reported as a relative risk reduction (RRR). It uses the relative risk (RR)—ie, the ratio of attack rates with and without a vaccine—which is expressed as 1–RR. Ranking by reported efficacy gives relative risk reductions of 95% for the Pfizer–BioNTech, 94% for the Moderna–NIH, 91% for the Gamaleya, 67% for the J&J, and 67% for the AstraZeneca–Oxford vaccines.
ARRs tend to be ignored because they give a much less impressive effect size than RRRs: 1·3% for the AstraZeneca–Oxford, 1·2% for the Moderna–NIH, 1·2% for the J&J, 0·93% for the Gamaleya, and 0·84% for the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccines.
ARR is also used to derive an estimate of vaccine effectiveness, which is the number needed to vaccinate (NNV) to prevent one more case of COVID-19 as 1/ARR. NNVs bring a different perspective: 81 for the Moderna–NIH, 78 for the AstraZeneca–Oxford, 108 for the Gamaleya, 84 for the J&J, and 119 for the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccines.

So you may assume worst case that all of Australia gets infected. Roughly 26 million cases. If we all in the words of minister Hazardous “go for gold and vaccinate baby” that means that only 25781512 of us will be infected. Based on NNV of 119 for Pfizer.
Awesome!

But it would end lockdowns.
IFR of Covid calculated at a mean of 0.23% across all ages and sex. Refer to below.

Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data
John P A Ioannidis
a Meta-Research Innovation Center at Stanford (METRICS), Stanford University, 1265 Welch Road, Stanford, California 94305, United States of America.
Correspondence to John P A Ioannidis (email: [email protected]).
(Submitted: 13 May 2020 – Revised version received: 13 September 2020 – Accepted: 15 September 2020 – Published online: 14 October 2020)
Across 51 locations, the median COVID-19 infection fatality rate was 0.27% (corrected 0.23%)

Probably comparable to the flu in younger populations. Certainly south of 0.23%.
So ARR of severe cases and death was NOT an end point In Pfizer clinical trial data so it was not reported.
CDC recently reported on 9000 breakthrough cases with 835 hospitalisations and 130 deaths. Reported by CDC.
Israel recently reported on 1692 breakthrough cases with hospitalisation of 596 and 364 deaths. Reported by Israeli Health Ministry.
How effective are these vaccines at reducing severe cases and death? You do the numbers.
I refuse to draw any conclusions from media reports and YouTube doctors.
No concrete peer reviewed data yet but real world data not painting a good picture.

For what it’s worth I am waiting on my 2nd Pfizer jab so no attacks please.

Making statements like 43 inches “go get vaccinated and get on with it” are misguided.
The government wants a way out of lockdowns. So they are pushing experimental vaccines because that’s what everyone else is doing.
For those of you who do not want to participate in this global vaccine experiment I say you are entitled to your freedom to choose. I for one will not hold it against you.
No one has the right to push an idea or an ideology on anybody.
Especially when you consider that the benefits of vaccine whilst real are probably grossly over exaggerated.

Keg

7th Aug 2021, 04:19

Actually you can attend funerals and weddings via the internet now, might not be ideal but like everything else doing well you can do it therefore not missing any ceremony.

Seriously? Have you farewelled anyone significant to you in the last 18 months? Watching on from home and then not being able to commemorate their memory together with others? It’s not the same. Not even close. The lowest point for me in this entire crap shoot of the last 18 months was watching the funeral of this hugely significant mentor of mine online and separated from my friends.

Not only did I miss the funeral, but the commemoration and gathering we had planned for 12 months on of his death (because we couldn’t gather together 12 months ago) has also been cancelled due to lock downs.

So excuse me if I call ‘bull sh!t’ on that sentiment 43Inches. It’s not an acceptable alternative. We all acknowledged the short term need. It should not become the default long term solution.

Global Aviator

7th Aug 2021, 04:28

If you think Vaccinations are the answer, just look around you. Countries like the U.S with a high population vaccinated, are still trying to mandate draconian laws!!!

Thats the US. Imagine what the Fu.kers gonna do here!!!!!!!!

Nope you are incorrect, I don’t see the USA trying to mandate anything draconian. Mandating wearing of masks if not vaccinated in many states - yep. Closing domestic borders - nope, allowing residents and oh Visa holders to enter - yep, allowing a flood of immigrants from Mexico - yep, life going on pretty much as normal despite Delta singing - yep.

Also the big push is vaccination, get vaccinated coming from both sides of the fence, whoops bad terminology as .............

Oh and my source, me I’m currently in the USA

Global Aviator

7th Aug 2021, 04:42

machtuk

7th Aug 2021, 04:59

Thanks for posting that 'pithblot', a great summarybut it's lost on a certain few who simply are dedicating their lives to debunk anyone's eless opinion/beliefs, something you aren't apparently allowed to have in their sad eyes -(

43Inches

7th Aug 2021, 05:04

Seriously? Have you farewelled anyone significant to you in the last 18 months? Watching on from home and then not being able to commemorate their memory together with others? It’s not the same. Not even close. The lowest point for me in this entire crap shoot of the last 18 months was watching the funeral of this hugely significant mentor of mine online and separated from my friends.

Last week actually, how I know you can do it online. I will add though we all mourn differently so it suffices for me to watch a service and reflect in my own way.

Thanks for posting that 'pithblot', a great summarybut it's lost on a certain few who simply are dedicating their lives to debunk anyone's eless opinion/beliefs, something you aren't apparently allowed to have in their sad eyes -(

You can have an opinion, however when you make it public you are influencing other people. And affecting public debate, so you better have your **** in order and thick skin as you will get judged. If you are not critical of what you read and blindly follow others statements without questioning, then good for you, not my style.

Making statements like 43 inches “go get vaccinated and get on with it” are misguided.
The government wants a way out of lockdowns. So they are pushing experimental vaccines because that’s what everyone else is doing.
For those of you who do not want to participate in this global vaccine experiment I say you are entitled to your freedom to choose. I for one will not hold it against you.
No one has the right to push an idea or an ideology on anybody.
Especially when you consider that the benefits of vaccine whilst real are probably grossly over exaggerated.

You can choose to not vaccinate as I've said before that's your choice, my choice is to ask people to get vacinated for their own good as all science says thats in your interest. If you want to push your anti vax on people, go for it, but show some actual evidence of why other than crackpot science and misunderstood stats with no medical understanding. Saying I'm misguided, well offer some real proof not that tripe you posted, we have been through that covid IS killing 2.5% of those infected in Australia, so don't dig up some rubbish stats that are far from the mark. All you have to do is divide those dead vs those infected. Where your source gets .23% from is monkey science.

Here's the hard stats, covid season 950 odd deaths, vs 36,000 infections that's 2.6% death rate and since the covid is still active the death rate is lagging indicator vs infections. The US with much larger infection rate and deaths is about the same mortality rate. So far the flu over the same period has killed 36 people from 22,000 diagnosed cases with probably 10 times that actual cases of mild flu that never get diagnosed. Taking diagnosed cases alone leaves a death rate of 0.01%. Ok you can believe some guy reporting stats that are pulled from their arse or you can just see the stats from readily available sources.

43Inches

7th Aug 2021, 05:48

Also go get vaccinated, and get on with it.

Then we can leave lockdown. I can go back to work and leave you guys to go back to bickering about CASA and whatever.

common cents

7th Aug 2021, 05:59

43 Inches
You have once again demonstrated that you do not understand facts.
No point showing me the CFR that’s a snapshot of the top of the pyramid.
The whole picture is revealed when you know the IFR.
The guy from Stanford knows what he is talking about. You clearly don’t.
But don’t let your misguided ignorance get in the way. Keep posting have at it.

Anti Skid On

7th Aug 2021, 06:01

I feel like I have just walked into a QAnon group.

Nobody seems to have mentioned long covid and how it has screwed people. Do you really think Australia would be better if they had followed, say, the UK strategy? Looking from across the ditch, yes that place not in lockdown, but with super tight borders, it is very clear that NSW is a complete mess, largely by politicians saying one thing, then allowing people to do something different. Lockdown should be lockdown, no Bunnings trips, no surfing trips to Bondi, etc. You go all in or you forget it; you simply can't do it half hearted

43Inches

7th Aug 2021, 06:03

common cents
43 Inches
You have once again demonstrated that you do not understand facts.
No point showing me the CFR that’s a snapshot of the top of the pyramid.
The whole picture is revealed when you know the IFR.
The guy from Stanford knows what he is talking about. You clearly don’t.
But don’t let your misguided ignorance get in the way. Keep posting have at it.

Actually no, I responded to your tripe you posted, which is copy paste with no explanation as to what you are talking about. Just reading his actual study notes, the levels of seroprevalence was mostly estimated. I severely doubt its accuracy based on what Australia is experiencing, with our testing levels it seems most cases are being caught in the net, therefore IFR and CFR will be very similar.

https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

I feel like I have just walked into a QAnon group.

I get the feeling they all got sick of actual facts being presented in another thread and started another one.

minigundiplomat

7th Aug 2021, 06:10

Actually no, I responded to your tripe you posted, which is copy paste with no explanation as to what you are talking about.

I get the feeling they all got sick of actual facts being presented in another thread and started another one.

Have you considered changing your name to Karen? I bet you’ve already got the haircut and the managers number on speed dial.

dr dre

7th Aug 2021, 07:02

CDC recently reported on 9000 breakthrough cases with 835 hospitalisations and 130 deaths. Reported by CDC.
Israel recently reported on 1692 breakthrough cases with hospitalisation of 596 and 364 deaths. Reported by Israeli Health Ministry.
How effective are these vaccines at reducing severe cases and death? You do the numbers.
I refuse to draw any conclusions from media reports and YouTube doctors.
No concrete peer reviewed data yet but real world data not painting a good picture.

I don’t know where you go those numbers from but here’s some info about breakthrough cases in the US and Israel:

COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html)

Why you shouldn't be concerned when more vaccinated people are getting infected than unvaccinated - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-06/coronacheck-israel-higher-numbers-vaccinated-people-infected/100353540)

The calculated risk of being hospitalised from a breakthrough case after vaccination? 0.004%

The calculated risk of dying from a breakthrough case after vaccination? 0.001%

The current death rate from Covid in Australia is around 2.5%, let’s just say 2%.

So you are 2000 times less likely to die from Covid post vaccination.

I think the real world data is painting a great picture on the effectiveness of vaccines.

mattyj

7th Aug 2021, 07:22

Great posts common cents and pithblot

Us and Them

43Inches

7th Aug 2021, 07:37

That vid mentions Fiji, they are getting smashed by Covid at the moment due to allowing travelers in, was only a matter of time for them playing with fire before it bit hard. Virtually no cases prior to June 2021, now approaching 36,000 with deaths accelerating. Hopefully it stays centered in Suva and does not get out to the Islands and villages The hospitals there are not equipped for this battle at all.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-22/fiji-two-pregnant-women-died-covid-19/100312726

Fiji has the highest number of infections per capita in the world, but the government has refused to institute a lockdown, saying it would "kill jobs and could kill the country's future".

Interesting to note that 25-30,000 of the cases are from Central District which is a maximum of about 200,000 population. That means case rate is approaching 15% of the population and still rising rapidly, if the undetected seroprevelance rate was as high as indicated by the earlier mentioned study the whole area should be infected by now.

common cents

7th Aug 2021, 08:09

[QUOTE=dr dre;11091106]I don’t know where you go those numbers from but here’s some info about breakthrough cases in the US and Israel:

COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html)

Why you shouldn't be concerned when more vaccinated people are getting infected than unvaccinated - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-06/coronacheck-israel-higher-numbers-vaccinated-people-infected/100353540)

The calculated risk of being hospitalised from a breakthrough case after vaccination? 0.004%

The calculated risk of dying from a breakthrough case after vaccination? 0.001

From your link
CNN (https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/31/health/fully-vaccinated-people-breakthrough-hospitalization-death/index.html)broke down the CDC's statistics (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html) which included 6,587 breakthrough cases as of July 26. Dividing these by the vaccinated population — 163 million at the time — the broadcaster concluded that less than 0.004 per cent of fully vaccinated people experienced a breakthrough case that led to hospitalisation, with less than 0.001 per cent dying from COVID-19.

You’re kidding me right?
CNN broadcaster data.

dr dre

7th Aug 2021, 08:25

You’re kidding me right?
CNN broadcaster data.

Nope, not kidding you at all.

6587 divided by 163,000,000 is 0.004%.

43Inches

7th Aug 2021, 08:25

The key part of that CDC report on breakthroughs,

Vaccine breakthrough cases occur in only a small percentage of vaccinated people. To date, no unexpected patterns have been identified in the case demographics or vaccine characteristics among people with reported vaccine breakthrough infections.

So this is nothing unexpected or out of the ordinary. However it comes from a dataset that is as below;

National surveillance relies on passive and voluntary reporting, and data might not be complete or representative.

common cents

7th Aug 2021, 08:39

Nope, not kidding you at all.

6587 divided by 163,000,000 is 0.004%.

Thanks for the maths lesson.
Ok. You go with CNN and presumably other media outlets for your factual data.
I’ll refer to the more traditional sources.
Just curious was that peer reviewed by the ABC ? Or was it Fox News?

dr dre

7th Aug 2021, 08:44

Sorry common cents, I’m missing your point.

Are you saying that the breakthrough infections are far higher, or the rate of infections are far higher than the minuscule figures provided in the links I posted?

If so could you post the sources where you got your information?

EDIT:

If you’re referring to your post #7020 and the excerpt from the Lancet where you claim the absolute vaccine reduction risk (ARR) is around 0.84-% and therefore 25.78 million Australians will be infected despite being vaccinated?

Then you’ve totally, totally taken that study the wrong way and blown those numbers out of proportion, again, here’s a debunking of your point:

Fact Check-Why Relative Risk Reduction, not Absolute Risk Reduction, is most often used in calculating vaccine efficacy (https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-thelancet-riskreduction-idUSL2N2NK1XA)

43Inches

7th Aug 2021, 09:03

If you’re referring to your post #7020 and the excerpt from the Lancet where you claim the absolute vaccine reduction risk (ARR) is around 0.84-% and therefore 25.78 million Australians will be infected despite being vaccinated?

Then you’ve totally, totally taken that study the wrong way and blown those numbers out of proportion, again, here’s a debunking of your point:

Fact Check-Why Relative Risk Reduction, not Absolute Risk Reduction, is most often used in calculating vaccine efficacy (https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-thelancet-riskreduction-idUSL2N2NK1XA)

That's what I was trying to get at earlier, I couldn't work out what all the mass of numbers were about and they made no sense. It seemed like half a data dump taken out of context.

The other issue of un-accounted for virus in the community and the seroprevelance rate. To have the IFR drop to .23% that would assume in the US for instance that there is 10 times the cases in the community over documented.

The seroprevelance rate study in Sydney found the rate to be barely 3 x the notified cases and that was from pretty sparse data, only 38 positives in 5000 tests. So that could possibly drop the current CFR from 2.6 to just over 0.8% IFR.

If you applied IFR to Influenza it would be like 0.0001%. Calculating IFR is basically witchcraft and educate guesswork due to trying to know what you don't know, if you knew, it would be CFR.

mattyj

7th Aug 2021, 10:22

For two days last week that VAERS data was revised up to 12000 deaths..then back down to 6800 odd..no explanation why.

mattyj

7th Aug 2021, 10:25

Turnleft080

7th Aug 2021, 10:34

SOPS

7th Aug 2021, 11:04

Moderna and Pfizer both have warnings about myocarditis and pericarditis on the safety data. I’m interested if anyone has had their Pfizer vaccine then gotten an aviation medical soon after and had unusually high blood pressure readings..?

I could be wrong.. but my feeling is, without being vaccinated you may end up with very very low blood pressure readings.. as in zero over zero.

mattyj

7th Aug 2021, 11:08

Without a vaccine or without a competent doctor with the dozens of excellent therapies that have been developed since the start of 2020.

Torukmacto

7th Aug 2021, 11:12

Having struggled with low blood pressure this could work out perfectly.

turbantime

7th Aug 2021, 11:24

Without a vaccine or without a competent doctor with the dozens of excellent therapies that have been developed since the start of 2020.
I love these uninformed comments. If you end up in hospital, especially in ICU, you get pumped a cocktail of ‘therapies’ to keep you alive. Each one of those with comes with side effects, some which could be long lasting. It literally is a last ditch effort to keep your pulse going. Not to mention the long term complications from the disease. Then there’s the vaccine with mild short term effects (AZ rare issues aside) which keep you out of hospital. I know what I prefer.

Ninthace

7th Aug 2021, 11:51

If you read across to the main Covid thread in jet blast you will find an informed assessment of myocarditis,
Myocarditis risks (https://www.pprune.org/showpost.php?p=11090571&postcount=16874)

43Inches

7th Aug 2021, 12:08

If you read across to the main Covid thread in jet blast you will find an informed assessment of myocarditis,
Myocarditis risks (https://www.pprune.org/11090571-post.html)

We covered the myocarditis stuff a while back, we're just stuck in a loop at the moment with a couple of clowns just making recurring statements of the same things they were shot down for 100 posts ago. I get the feeling they are bored telemarketers.

dr dre

7th Aug 2021, 12:43

Moderna and Pfizer both have warnings about myocarditis and pericarditis on the safety data. I’m interested if anyone has had their Pfizer vaccine then gotten an aviation medical soon after and had unusually high blood pressure readings..?

High blood pressure is neither a symptom of Myocaridtis or Pericarditis. In fact in both of those conditions it is LOW blood pressure that is a potential symptom, not high blood pressure.

Did you study up on any of those conditions before you made that post?

dr dre

7th Aug 2021, 12:50

For two days last week that VAERS data was revised up to 12000 deaths..then back down to 6800 odd..no explanation why.

Yes there is. I simply googled “VAERS” and this was the third google news search result:

Fact Check-6,000 VAERS reports were deleted for being foreign entries, CDC says (https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2P91JS)

There is an explanation, a very simple one. You use language in your posts to hint at a massive conspiracy, but the answers are out there to anyone who does the most simple fact checking.

Honestly it’s getting ridiculous now.......

dr dre

7th Aug 2021, 12:51

we're just stuck in a loop at the moment with a couple of clowns just making recurring statements of the same things they were shot down for 100 posts ago.

In total agreement

turbantime

7th Aug 2021, 13:06

Honestly it’s getting ridiculous now.......
Agreed. The utter lack of cognitive ability of some of these posters are a real worry. Even more worrying is that these people are in charge of aircraft.

Xeptu

7th Aug 2021, 13:10

Agreed. The utter lack of cognitive ability of some of these posters are a real worry. Even more worrying is that these people are in charge of aircraft.

Are we sure about that. Maybe it's time to think up a technical question that only we would know. But then we 'll probably get into an argument over that :)

turbantime

7th Aug 2021, 13:13

I get the feeling they are bored telemarketers.
You may just have stepped on to a gem here without knowing it. I infiltrated a closed conspiracy theory/anti-vaccine closed group once. The ‘leaders’ of this group encourage their flock to go out and spread the word/raise awareness/open people’s eyes etc. Then you see these people go out and try and spread the false information as repetitively as they can. If it is debunked, they attack the source as they’re unable to refute the facts. It’d be quite comical if it wasn’t so serious.

dr dre

7th Aug 2021, 14:13

Agreed. The utter lack of cognitive ability of some of these posters are a real worry. Even more worrying is that these people are in charge of aircraft.

There’s an identified cognitive condition that describes it, the Dunning Kruger effect. It’s people who are so unintelligent they don’t have the capacity to realise they are incorrect (you don’t know what you don’t know).

The best example I can think of in Australia with vaccines is Federal MP and failed furniture salesman Craig Kelly, so dumb he actually thinks he’s uncovered the secrets behind Covid and vaccines that all the top scientists and doctors have missed:

Federal MP Craig Kelly’s relentless war on COVID vaccines. (https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/kelly/13479832)

Aussie Bob

7th Aug 2021, 22:36

The Dunning Kruger effect eh Doc. Not possible at all that you suffer slightly? You, the single most avid "pro covid narrative" proponent on this board anywhere. In fact when I look at your recent posts I find zero on anything aviation at all. Thanks for your advice, fortunately I learned early to always seek a second opinion.

Are you a big Pharma shill Doc? (This is a fair question Mods, look at this guys history of posting)

43Inches

7th Aug 2021, 22:49

I infiltrated a closed conspiracy theory/anti-vaccine closed group once. The ‘leaders’ of this group encourage their flock to go out and spread the word/raise awareness/open people’s eyes etc. Then you see these people go out and try and spread the false information as repetitively as they can. If it is debunked, they attack the source as they’re unable to refute the facts. It’d be quite comical if it wasn’t so serious.

Nothing new unfortunately, it's pretty standard cult mentality. One egotistical leader that may or may not believe in the real purpose just getting kicks from leading a bunch of halfwits on a anarchist roadtrip. Send out the sheep and see what fun we can have causing chaos.

Unfortunately most of the general public don't understand the fact there are individuals out there hell bent on things you don't like. Rapists, Murderers, etc a lot get kicks from doing what they do, some even enjoy it, no manor of education, confinement or torture will change them. The same goes for those that want to go against society in general and spread misinformation. So is it safe to walk dark alleys at night alone, hell no, and never will be until you cure mental illness.

Same thing applies to governance, anything you inform the community to do, know that part of the community will go against it, why, because they just want to make trouble. They won't listen to facts or figures or whats best, they just want to cause trouble and cause mayhem, even at the expense of safety and common sense, and have a laugh when they see people react to them. Reasonable debate over the issues is fine, that's another thing and leads to outcomes, I'm referring to those that just oppose for the sake of it.

Then there's just the stupid, uneducated and straight forward insane.

That's what you fight against when you want something good for the general public.

Are you a big Pharma shill Doc?

Comments like that are regurgitated straight from the shepherds mouth.

blubak

7th Aug 2021, 23:00

I love these uninformed comments. If you end up in hospital, especially in ICU, you get pumped a cocktail of ‘therapies’ to keep you alive. Each one of those with comes with side effects, some which could be long lasting. It literally is a last ditch effort to keep your pulse going. Not to mention the long term complications from the disease. Then there’s the vaccine with mild short term effects (AZ rare issues aside) which keep you out of hospital. I know what I prefer.
Perfectly said,when you are ill you take what is given without questioning where or how or how many trials were undertaken on it.
When you get a prescription from the chemist,do you sit down & study the warnings about side effects on the leaflet or do you just accept what your gp has told you to take?
When you decide to travel on an aircraft,do you insist on verifying the pilots experience!!
It seems like we are finally on the right track with getting people vaccinated not helped of course by our fed govt stuff up but the time is coming when the unvaccinated will realise their rights may not equal the majority of the population,that is their choice.

sumtingwong

7th Aug 2021, 23:04

This thread was somewhat informative in the beginning.
Now it’s just a circle jerk of a few self righteous, self appointed arbiters of truth posters, one hand on their mates appendage, and the other, patting their own backs congratulating themselves on how superior they are to those with a different opinion, those asking some questions.

It’s gotten pretty boring, so ill move on, but perhaps the only thing left to ask you fellas is, who had to eat the Sao?

Whatever floats your boat eh.

43Inches

7th Aug 2021, 23:08

This thread was somewhat informative in the beginning.
Now it’s just a circle jerk of a few self righteous, self appointed arbiters of truth posters, one hand on their mates appendage, and the other, patting their own backs congratulating themselves on how superior they are to those with a different opinion, those asking some questions.

Here comes the insults cause they have lost the debate, or whatever it was they were trying to do.

Are you in opposition, uneducated, or just too stupid to understand what is being said? As one of those leads to childish insults.

sumtingwong

7th Aug 2021, 23:11

I’m guessing the sao eater was you then.

See ya.

Gnadenburg

7th Aug 2021, 23:17

It's moved to Facebook. Seems some of our aviation friends, the smarter than everyone else pilots, seem happy to post crap that's probably from state sponsored interference and disinformation teams ( CCP and Russians ).

dr dre

7th Aug 2021, 23:18

https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/27/covid19-pcr-tests-are-scientifically-meaningless/?fbclid=IwAR3G6Fuq8C-8XW7szL43scbKOYFx78irq52A6ZQCRdZmPMWiHTqD_2jv4Zo

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

Conspiracy?

No

EUA withdrawal for CDC COVID-19 PCR test is due to the development of newer tests that help save time and resources, not because the test is faulty (https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/eua-withdrawal-for-cdc-covid-19-pcr-test-is-due-to-the-development-of-newer-tests-that-help-save-time-and-resources-not-because-the-test-is-faulty/?fbclid=IwAR1Gial35RJf41qsqilTbJXt5XJbjQbplvfdXsathoBpDt0kxD Eb92XlMAQ)

As far as thread direction yeah it did deviate from Aviation a long time ago, but until the pandemic is sorted out it’s going to prevent any meaningful level of travel and airline industry employment. The only thing that will restore the industry to some semblance of what it was is when enough of society gets vaccinated, so I really can’t understand why any pilot would be opposed to the vaccine.

This could be a place where we help overcome vaccine hesitancy using verified science and get as many vaccinated as possible, or it could be a place where personal insults are thrown, your choice.

43Inches

7th Aug 2021, 23:31

Ill say it one more time, as I don't care who you are, how smart you are, I really couldn't give two hoots; but I care for the community in general which includes you clowns;

GO AND GET VACCINATED!

Then the borders will reopen and aviation can start to recover.... anything else just prolongs this misery and keeps me posting drivel here.

Lead Balloon

7th Aug 2021, 23:45

Here comes the insults cause they have lost the debate, or whatever it was they were trying to do.

Are you in opposition, uneducated, or just too stupid to understand what is being said? As one of those leads to childish insults.Oh dear.

Pot calling kettle. Pot calling kettle.

I get all the statistics and epidemiology and science and where they logically and inexorably lead, so far as the effective response to the pandemic - in isolation - goes.

But your strategic position is still based on a value judgment, with which others may reasonably and appropriately disagree.

There are many other causes of death and disease, the effective and scientifically-based response to which is obvious, in isolation. However, nothing happens in isolation from the real world.

A far greater cost is being paid to save a life potentially lost to this virus than is paid to save a life potentially lost to other causes. That's not an outcome driven by statistics and science and logic.

Vilifying someone for pointing out that fact - for it is a fact - is more than a little hypocritical.

43Inches

7th Aug 2021, 23:51

Vilifying someone for pointing out that fact - for it is a fact - is more than a little hypocritical.

Fight fire with fire, you respond to the stone as its cast. Response is not causation.

Otherwise they just keep throwing stones.

There are many other causes of death and disease, the effective and scientifically-based response to which is obvious, in isolation. However, nothing happens in isolation from the real world.

A far greater cost is being paid to save a life potentially lost to this virus than is paid to save a life potentially lost to other causes. That's not an outcome driven by statistics and science and logic.

Now in answer to that, let's look at the USA, a country ravaged by Covid, the direct stimulus injection to keep the country afloat is now up to $6 trillion USD, That's $20,000 USD per person there, in a country thats had few lockdowns and an aggressive vaccination push. Now add to that treatment in a health system of 38 million suffers and 616,000 deaths to date. The loss of productivity from absenteeism alone could run into billions, if not trillions. So there is much much more than lock down kills a few businesses and causes mental anguish. Australia has got away with less than $10k per person needed in stimulus to keep the economy healthy. The health care system has had minimal penalty and absenteeism is fairly low as business is restricted anyway. So the average cost financially when spread across the population is far less in Australia than the US. If you compare to the UK we are so far ahead its just not funny, the NHS has debts now they will be paying for years and its still adding up, I don't think they even have any idea what its going to cost in the long run, but it sure as hell would be less if they had contained the virus.

Lead Balloon

7th Aug 2021, 23:54

That doesn't seem to be very scientific.

Gnadenburg

8th Aug 2021, 00:01

Out of interest and keeping the discussion relevant and on track. It would be great to hear from the main protagonist here, for perspective on their arguments and positions.

1) Has your aviation position been affected by COVID? Say redundancy or serious financial loss.

2) Did you qualify for government handouts such as job keeper?

3) Would you vaccinate if required to do so to keep your job a a pilot? Or would you walk away from flying if it deemed a critical industry requiring vaccination?

For myself.

1) Yes.

2) No.

3) Yes.

WingNut60

8th Aug 2021, 00:05

3) Would you vaccinate if required to do so to keep your job a a pilot? Or would you walk away from flying if it deemed a critical industry requiring vaccination?

3) Yes.

I presume that you're answering the first half of the question?

43Inches

8th Aug 2021, 00:05

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes - have already vaccinated

Had to use the super payout scheme to stay ahead, getting government benefit supplements now, which anyone who has had their annual wage fall below about $80-$100k is elligible for if you have a family. Its a bit of a pain to sign up centrelink if you havn't done it before but the payments definitly help.

Gnadenburg

8th Aug 2021, 00:11

I presume that you're answering the first half of the question?

I can reword the question though basically I'm asking, would you vaccinate to keep your job?

Or walk away based on principle?

PPRuNeUser0184

8th Aug 2021, 00:11

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes - fully vaccinated.

It's not about whether you keep your job or not. Its not about the individual.

Anyone who doesn't wish to get vaccinated (due to having a massive sense of entitlement) and be part of protecting society, their community, their friends and their family is quite frankly a selfish prick.

43Inches

8th Aug 2021, 00:17

The Banjo

8th Aug 2021, 00:39

I don't believe in forcing vaccinations on people, I'm just pushing that they do and trying to change their minds on the issue. If it gets to workplaces forcing you, then I don't need to 'spread the word' anymore, and I genuinely believe that should not occur.

No person should be forced to have the jab. The choice SHOULD BE have a jab or go away and find another job.

It is not difficult really,

Turnleft080

8th Aug 2021, 00:47

Torukmacto

8th Aug 2021, 00:50

1 Yes made redundant
2 No , living off savings
3 Yes Double vaccinated at first opportunity

PoppaJo

8th Aug 2021, 04:51

Just to the news regarding todays numbers. QLD recording 9 and opening at 4pm today and VIC recording 11.
According to maths and the so called modelling science, I take that is a difference of 2. However, one state remains
in total 5km chains and a measly $1billion loss.
QLD all in isolation

VIC 0 in isolation.

So Vic in the last 24 hours last had 40 not in isolation. Sort of heads south pretty quickly after then they will probably find out later this week

Duck Pilot

8th Aug 2021, 06:03

Cairns has just gone into lockdown….

turbantime

8th Aug 2021, 06:16

Have a look at https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/weekly-reports.aspx
Go to sections 5&6 of the report. It’ll show how the vaccines are protecting against infections and severe disease during the current NSW outbreak.

MickG0105

8th Aug 2021, 08:46

43Inches

8th Aug 2021, 08:48

Notable that there are more people aged 29 and under in ICUs than there are people aged 70 and over.

But also much fewer deaths this run, dropping that death rate below 1% now. Most likely due to that lack of older folks in ICU.

galdian

8th Aug 2021, 09:29

But also much fewer deaths this run, dropping that death rate below 1% now. Most likely due to that lack of older folks in ICU.

Just asking: which is more a concern, death in (predominantly oldies) or the long CV effects on life expectancy/quality (predominantly youngies) ??

Simple Q, PLEASE don't bombard with millions of reports/stats or whatever.
Ever heard of "gut feeling"?

Cheers

Lookleft

8th Aug 2021, 10:29

I suppose it depends on how Covid has affected you as to your perspective. Just for interest this is how a covid survivor feels.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-07/covid-19-delta-victorian-outbreak-teacher-vaccination-plea/100358420

Xeptu

8th Aug 2021, 10:33

I "can" make some comment on that question based on personal experience among my little group albeit I have not been infected that I am aware of.

Our girls aged between 30 and 60 returned infected from VIC, none of them can say they are fully restored to precovid condition.
All of them have a variety of strange occurrences, bruising that comes and goes mainly on the arms hands and legs, but the most concerning ones are fatigue and breathlessness episodes, these occur without warning, mostly at rest or sleeping, only one of the four is serious enough to occasionally need to reach for the oxygen mask. She is presumably a Long Covid statistic, because of the need to have available oxygen. The others don't require oxygen at least yet, but they are the younger, we don't know which way that's going to go long term.
We also don't actually know how you become a Long Covid statistic, two of the youngest ones are reluctant to declare it.
Fatigue, can last hours, varying in degree from unable to stand up unassisted to not able to lift a coffee cup. Breathlessness, comes on suddenly without warning and can last up to 20 mins. Varies from sit up and take a few deep breaths to reach for the oxygen mask.

The official statistic we think is 15% effected become Long Covid sufferers, we don't know how that is derived. Based on those we know that went to VIC discussing it among themselves, we think it's more like 1 in 3.with the two concerning symptoms.

In answer to the question, none of us have been overly concerned about the risk of dying from Covid, Long Covid however has our undivided attention.

43Inches

8th Aug 2021, 10:34

I feel both are just as bad, from a community care stance. Although if you look at it from an economic point of view long term sickness in the young is the one you really want to avoid, that will cost big bucks for years to come. That's from the standpoint of loss of productivity and reliance on benefits/care. To me that's going to be the huge issue for the UK with its NHS system, being entirely taxpayer funded. The US can get away with it due to their system being more user pays (a lot), so there is more burden on the individual rather than the community. Australia being closer to the UK system would want to avoid long term mass disabilities.

turbantime

8th Aug 2021, 11:01

Xeptu

8th Aug 2021, 12:29

That is one heck of a warning tale. All the anti-whatever’s talking about 98-99% survival rate need to read your story. Survival does not equal recovery. The long term effects are significant. Thanks for sharing your story.

I have a good story! One of them says she loses feeling in her finger tips and feet. Some describe it as numbness and others loss of feeling.
Partner gets in the passenger seat, she's driving, starts the engine and immediately goes to about 4500rpm, for about 10 seconds before she realises her foot is pressing on the accelerator.

WTF he says, well I can't feel my foot she says, well you're not driving he says and she's still in denial.

blubak

8th Aug 2021, 21:48

That is one heck of a warning tale. All the anti-whatever’s talking about 98-99% survival rate need to read your story. Survival does not equal recovery. The long term effects are significant. Thanks for sharing your story.
The people listening to the anti everythings need to read it also,very likely it will be too late to change their mind if they get it.
Have just been reading the booking system for the under 40s group has gone into overdrive since the announcement yesterday that they can get it.looks like people are really keen which is great for all of us.

WingNut60

8th Aug 2021, 21:58

Vaccination hesitancy in the boomers? I blame it on the Lotto.

After 20 years of buying Lotto tickets and thinking you're going to win at 134,000,000 to one then a mere 300,000 : 1 must seem like a dead certainty.

Foxxster

8th Aug 2021, 22:08

Vaccine hesitancy is high in the area of Sydney where the virus is now running wild. And compliance is at its lowest in the same area.

As for the end of Sydney lockdown. Apparently not until grand final day which is early October. That is if we continue to meet vaccination rate targets. Some restrictions may be lifted beforehand but the majority will be in place until at least then. Strap in.

SHVC

8th Aug 2021, 22:48

ManillaChillaDilla

8th Aug 2021, 23:14

43Inches

8th Aug 2021, 23:23

Franco in Vic gave himself a 15% payrise in the middle of last year just as his policies were killing the most vulnerable in our society!

If you mean Dan, that was addressed, the public service awarded a payrise to all Victorian state politicians, it's an independent review board. Dan was against it and has donated it all to charity and was asking his cabinet to do the same, however he did not enforce they did, probably because he can't.

AerialPerspective

8th Aug 2021, 23:33

At the end of the day the rest of the world provides an interseting comparison as to how this has been mishandled in Australia.

Politics is simply a game inhabited by those who by reason of extending their own gravy trains, are first and formost interested in themselves. To be in politics they have to be.

NSW and Victoria are good examples of " leaders " who have forgotten that they work for us. Not the other way around.

Franco in Vic gave himself a 15% payrise in the middle of last year just as his policies were killing the most vulnerable in our society!

If protecting the comunity and our country was the priority, we wouldnt be in this current shambolic state.

Its the politicians olympics and death by a thousand cuts for the populus.

At what point did this conduct become ok?

MCD

Yeh, let's not let facts get in the way of an accusation. In Victoria, there is an independent remuneration tribunal which is at arms length to government, it sets the salaries of Members of the Victorian Parliament, senior Public Servants, Councillors throughout the State and and Government operated Corporations (e.g. VicRoads, TAC, et al).

It was specifically set up by the current government to take the determination of government related salaries out of the hands of the Parliament because of previous accusations of self-serving and being out of touch. Among it's board members are an expert in workplace remuneration, I believe a former industrial relations judge.

Most Victorians support the State Government and the Premier, it's why his government was re-elected in a landslide and why he is widely supported with respect to the management of Covid, unless you get all your new from Sky News after-dark.

Every major project that was promised upon initial election (Level Crossings, for example), has been running ahead of schedule. We have had more work done on repairing our roads and upgrading infrastructure than any government for decades. Even the outliers and nutters on Sky News admitted after the last election that Andrews' government got re-elected because people like it when infrastructure is promised and delivered.

Used to live in NSW, didn't mind Gladys viewing her from afar but she lost me when she refused to lock down the State and look what's happened.

Yes, the overwhelming majority of politicians are self-serving and only there because they failed at everything else beforehand - however, in assigning blame and/or malfeasance, I'd be looking in the direction of Mr "I don't hold a hose", "sports-rorts", "carpark rorts", "community safety rorts", "robodebt", "National Fraudband Network", "Censusfail", "Aged-care disaster" and the fact he only barely got re-elected in 2019 because of Clive and the stupid opposition presenting a policy platform to out-complicate Hewson's GST.

AerialPerspective

8th Aug 2021, 23:36

If you mean Dan, that was addressed, the public service awarded a payrise to all Victorian state politicians, it's an independent review board. Dan was against it and has donated it all to charity and was asking his cabinet to do the same, however he did not enforce they did, probably because he can't.

Thanks. I forgot about him donating the payrise to charity but I knew about the tribunal. Like I said in my response, never let the facts get in the way when bashing politicians.

43Inches

8th Aug 2021, 23:49

Thanks. I forgot about him donating the payrise to charity but I knew about the tribunal. Like I said in my response, never let the facts get in the way when bashing politicians.

I was watching his live Covid talk in the morning when he addressed that issue. He said it wasn't right for him to tell the other politicians whether they deserved it or not, hence why he hasn't acted on it, but was donating all rises during the pandemic to charities.

Interesting to note when you search up him donating, there is virtually no news coverage, infact most is liberal biased propaganda twisting his donation into some sort of inaction or failure. Have to remember the opposition also got a pay rise at the same time, and yes some of them have also pledged to donate the proceeds.

I will say I'm generally not pro Dan, but I have liked his leadership during the pandemic, I know that's a hot topic, but just my opinion. I live in his state, and have many pre-pandemic things I don't like about Dan and the Labor tribe.

layman

9th Aug 2021, 04:28

layman

9th Aug 2021, 04:32

On the weekend was speaking to someone who had Covid about August(?) last year.

Most days good but some days ‘crashing’ by mid-afternoon; just plain tired.

Over 70 but a keen bush walker & tennis player pre-Covid. Not doing either now.

Foxxster

9th Aug 2021, 05:19

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-09/sydney-covid-patients-redirected-to-wollongong-hospital/100361200

Sydney numbers are high but I wouldn’t have thought them catastrophic and yet patients are already being diverted to Wollongong.

I don’t this as a reflection on Sydney hospitals just the additional workload Covid places on staff & facilities.

We’re going to need high levels of vaccination AND continued application of pandemic protocols for a while yet.

sydney is going to be locked down until at least early October, another 2 months. At least.

the problem is the length of time WuHu flu patients spend in icu. Normally a patient might spend a few days there, maybe a week if severe. The average for WuHu flu is more like 3 weeks. Or 21 days. So one WuHu flu patient is equivalent to about 5 or 6 normal patients.

SOPS

9th Aug 2021, 05:30

Foxxster

9th Aug 2021, 05:37

Boe787

9th Aug 2021, 05:55

Potsie Weber

9th Aug 2021, 06:02

Restriction eased in October then what? NSW will not be welcomed anywhere because the other states will be no where near a level of covid vaccination level. Strap in for the long haul if you’re i. Aviation, tourism industry we have a loooooong ride yet.

This! National Cabinet strategy is to aim for ZERO community spread. McGowan has stated this as the only option. Even once vaccination targets are reached across Australia, it’s hard to see states opening up to other states where community transmission is not under control. Thinking once we get to 80% we are sweet is not the way it is going to play out.

80% plus only controlled community spread, plus lockdowns plus closing borders plus quarantine is something we will be seeing for several more years.

KRviator

9th Aug 2021, 06:02

And we have a man ( who is currently in hospital with Covid), who thought it would be a good idea to leave his lock down area in Sydney and travel to Byron Bay to spread some love, just before he would be admitted to hospital. This intelligent idea has now prompted calls for Byron Bay and surrounds to be locked down.

What part of …. Stay at Home.. aren’t these morons getting?Fuctifino, SOPS. Fuctifino.

Then there was the phuckwit who, despite being a close contact of a Newcastle case, left the Newcastle LGA on the train, and has caused Armidale to go into lockdown. Fast forward two days and what happens? Another asreclown leaves Newcastle and goes to Tamworth visiting a host of businesses. Cue the Tamworth lockdown from 1700 today. I needed to go to Tamworth this week That ain't gonna happen now.

I guess since they've set the precedent by not arresting / charging / jailing people that break the lockdown rules, there's no longer any real incentive to abide by them. A $1,000 fine? Pfft. Most of these pricks probably won't pay it anyway.

I wish I thought differently. But I am over it. I really do not care if he lives or dies. And if he lives I would drag him off to jail for the rest of his selfish stupid life. Yes really. Same with anyone else who does this. And there have been several. Fines are not enough. Lock them up for a very very long time.

this is not a fooking joke. It is costing Sydney a BILLION a week. How may have died already in this latest outbreak. How many taken their own lives or have been tipped into mental illness, lost their life’s work and savings.

F*ck them. Just lock them away. Forever. They are responsible for deaths and billions in economic damage. I don’t care how old or young they are. F*ck themCouldn't agree more. I abide by the rules. My family abides by the rules - as do most PPruner's I'd suspect, and we'd rightly expect tea, no biscuits if we knowingly break them.

So why are these scrotes different?

43Inches

9th Aug 2021, 06:48

So why are these scrotes different?

Simple answer, for contact tracing to work people have to be not afraid to tell the truth, no matter how stupid. I agree with the above posts that he should be drawn and quartered, but it can send the wrong message and people start to clam up about movements in fear of being penalised.

As I've said before you just have to account for the stupid when setting rules.

A bit like death penalties can make offenders more ruthless when faced with it and cost the society more than the idea they may get away with some life after incarceration.

SOPS

9th Aug 2021, 07:01

Foxxster

9th Aug 2021, 07:10

Simple answer, for contact tracing to work people have to be not afraid to tell the truth, no matter how stupid. I agree with the above posts that he should be drawn and quartered, but it can send the wrong message and people start to clam up about movements in fear of being penalised.

As I've said before you just have to account for the stupid when setting rules.

A bit like death penalties can make offenders more ruthless when faced with it and cost the society more than the idea they may get away with some life after incarceration.

well you just give them another incentive

don’t cooperate immediately and face 20 years
cooperate and face only 10 years

the current situation is obviously NOT working

people are being contacted a week or two after visiting a place telling them they are a close contact because people are not cooperating with contact tracers. Sharpen their minds with a lengthy jail sentence.

this is not a minor crime. It is a crime that costs billions, that causes serious illness and even death. That is not minor. It needs to be treated like what is it. An EXTREMELY SERIOUS crime against society. And no that is not hyperbole.

blubak

9th Aug 2021, 08:31

Lead Balloon

9th Aug 2021, 08:32

3Greens

9th Aug 2021, 08:34

We were having similar conversations here in the U.K. last April/May time as the original virus took hold across the country. Lockdown 1 was pretty well respected. Shops just, roads deserted, and people pretty much stayed at home. Lockdown 2 and 3 were differant. Shops had various interpretations of “essential” and so did the public when considering their movements. I guess it’s a natural part of human behaviour to become apathetic to it all if it doesn’t seem to personally effect them.
as things stand. We are pretty much back to normal here now, in fact I’ve just returned from a holiday in the Spanish islands which, apart from masks inside shops etc, was ops normal and it was lovely to see busy airports again.
the U.K. has made many many mistakes dealing with the virus, largely led by inept politicians who have u-turned several times, made several errors in judgement and even been caught breaking their own lockdown rules.
however, we are where we are, and now the vaccine rollout has gone extremely well, cases are still in their throusands per day but deaths are low and the hospitals are not now at a risk of becoming overwhelmed... the actual aim of any vaccine after all.
if there was somehow a way to combine Australia’s original containment with the U.K. Vaccine rollout and youd have a pretty good way to deal with a Coronavirus pandemic. As it is, Australia is going to have a bloody hard time to convince the populous to get the vaccine, which is after all the only way out of all of this.
you just can’t let it rip amongst the unvaccinated. Yes it has a high survival rate for the fit and healthy. But it does fill up hospital beds and you don’t want to be turned away for that heart attack or broken leg because the hospitals are full.

SOPS

9th Aug 2021, 08:45

And....apparently hasnt checked in at many or maybe all places he has visited & hasnt been at all co operative in revealing his movements.
Its 1 thing to blame governments for being slack or not doing what is expected of them but for somebody(& theres many others im sure) to act like this guy has is,as you say just beyond belief & no doubt the 'i didnt understand' or 'i have been victimised' line is yet to come.
So sick of these self entitled selfish morons.

Jails have hospitals, do they not? Put him in one of them. He might start remembering where he has been in Byron. And I’m sorry.. but if I hear “
he didn’t understand because English is a second language”, as far as I am concerned he can be deported back to where ever his first language is.

dr dre

9th Aug 2021, 08:45

This! National Cabinet strategy is to aim for ZERO community spread. McGowan has stated this as the only option. Even once vaccination targets are reached across Australia, it’s hard to see states opening up to other states where community transmission is not under control. Thinking once we get to 80% we are sweet is not the way it is going to play out.

80% plus only controlled community spread, plus lockdowns plus closing borders plus quarantine is something we will be seeing for several more years.

Actually No. The National Cabinet Plan (https://www.pm.gov.au/sites/default/files/media/national-plan-060821_0.pdf) isn't aiming for zero community spread after Phase C, which is at 80% vaccination. All states are due to hit that target by December. The WA CHO made this statement (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-18/wa-hard-lockdown-approach-pathway-out-of-covid/100301206): WA's Chief Health Officer Andrew Robertson wants to see at least 80 per cent of the WA population vaccinated before we get to a point where lockdowns and border closures are no longer needed.

The key is vaccination numbers, and 70% initially, then 80% more firmly, to end restrictions.

rattman

9th Aug 2021, 08:46

And I will update myself… Byron Bay and surrounding areas have just been locked down. These people must be put in jail.

And if social media is to be believed police are chasing his two kids who traveled with him

Jails have hospitals, do they not? Put him in one of them.

Cant put positive people into jail. They are fighting hard to keep it out of jails because it will rip through jails like its a cruise ship. Also part of the reason prisoners and jail staff were like 1A or 1B in priority Also note hes a staunch antivaxer

Foxxster

9th Aug 2021, 08:52

And if social media is to be believed police are chasing his two kids who traveled with him

Cant put positive people into jail. They are fighting hard to keep it out of jails because it will rip through jails like its a cruise ship. Also part of the reason prisoners and jail staff were like 1A or 1B in priority Also note hes a staunch antivaxer

well I am sure they can find a secure place for one person. He will only be contagious for a week or two. Not much out of a ten or twenty year sentence he should get.

Foxxster

9th Aug 2021, 08:56

So we put infected people who deliberately ignore the lockdown rules into gaol? Would that be in a goal with unvaccinated warders and inmates?

If only Australia had proper quarantine facilities into which people could be put into secure and properly guarded isolation. We could incarcerate the deliberate non-compliers there, without risking others.

(I do laugh at those justifying pollie payrises on the basis that they were decided by an independent remuneration tribunal. Even assuming they're truly independent - pull the other one, it plays Jingle Bells - they operate within a legislative framework that can be amended. For those who haven't been paying attention, the various legislatures have been creating laws like confetti over the last 18 or so months in response to the Covid threat. Amazing that they couldn't fit in the passing of a one sentence amendment to change the operation of the remuneration legislation temporarily. Truly amazing.)

they are all vaccinated. They were amongst the first, for obvious reasons.

as for quarantine stations. If you are referring to using them for returning Australians then none of the major outbreaks including this one would have been stopped by using them.

but for those that break the rules I am sure something could be arranged. They could isolate at home using ankle bracelets until no longer contagious which would only be a week or two. No that hard really is it.

Lead Balloon

9th Aug 2021, 09:01

[T]hey are all vaccinated. They were amongst the first, for obvious reasons.Bollocks.

And, due to minimum length requirements on this forum: Complete bollocks.

highflyer40

9th Aug 2021, 09:03

The people listening to the anti everythings need to read it also,very likely it will be too late to change their mind if they get it.
Have just been reading the booking system for the under 40s group has gone into overdrive since the announcement yesterday that they can get it.looks like people are really keen which is great for all of us.

This is a reply I posted in the Coronvirus thread but thought I would also put it here as it is direct correlation to the above stories as well.

“The problem with just quoting the stats for deaths is it does not take into account the wider ramifications. Someone I work with is in her early 30’s and runs half marathons all the time. She caught CV19 and like you said was floored for 2 days and then back to normal…. A week later and we haven’t seen her for 4 weeks. She can barely get out of bed and can’t climb one flight of stairs without taking a break midway through. Doctors have told her this could last weeks, months or years. They just don’t know.

There are many more out there who are suffering debilitating effects of the virus than have died from the virus.”

John Eacott

9th Aug 2021, 09:16

And I will update myself… Byron Bay and surrounding areas have just been locked down. These people must be put in jail.

I was super lucky this morning: tasked by BloodBikes Australia to Lismore Hospital to pick up his COVID sample to take to Brisbane for genomics tracing, then I was cancelled and the Lismore medical courier sent instead.

No doubt I would have been sent into lockdown had I ridden there and back :eek:

Potsie Weber

9th Aug 2021, 11:57

Actually No. The National Cabinet Plan (https://www.pm.gov.au/sites/default/files/media/national-plan-060821_0.pdf) isn't aiming for zero community spread after Phase C, which is at 80% vaccination. All states are due to hit that target by December. The WA CHO made this statement (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-18/wa-hard-lockdown-approach-pathway-out-of-covid/100301206): WA's Chief Health Officer Andrew Robertson wants to see at least 80 per cent of the WA population vaccinated before we get to a point where lockdowns and border closures are no longer needed.

The key is vaccination numbers, and 70% initially, then 80% more firmly, to end restrictions.

Mark McGowan has stepped up criticisms of Gladys Berejiklian's response to Sydney's COVID-19 outbreak, declaring her comments indicating the need to "live with" the Delta variant were "totally wrong". "I just want to be totally clear - we cannot accept that position. We don't live with it. We don't tolerate it. We don't let it linger," he said.

"We suppress it and we get rid of it. That is the Australian approach to the virus."

Mr McGowan previously hinted at enforcing an indefinite hard border with NSW unless the state can "crush and kill the virus".

"We still reserve the right to lockdown in specific locations if absolutely necessary.

I strongly doubt that even with 80% vaccinated, WA will have an open border to NSW if there are still hundreds of cases per day. I think it was on the radio a few days ago that McGowan said the national cabinet agreement was zero community transmission.

rattman

9th Aug 2021, 12:03

I was super lucky this morning: tasked by BloodBikes Australia to Lismore Hospital to pick up his COVID sample to take to Brisbane for genomics tracing, then I was cancelled and the Lismore medical courier sent instead.

No doubt I would have been sent into lockdown had I ridden there and back :eek:

Yeah avoid lismore like the plague. The 2 kids of the byran bay man have been caught are in lismore hospital apparently

Transition Layer

9th Aug 2021, 12:11

Mark McGowan has stepped up criticisms of Gladys Berejiklian's response to Sydney's COVID-19 outbreak, declaring her comments indicating the need to "live with" the Delta variant were "totally wrong". "I just want to be totally clear - we cannot accept that position. We don't live with it. We don't tolerate it. We don't let it linger," he said.

"We suppress it and we get rid of it. That is the Australian approach to the virus."

Mr McGowan previously hinted at enforcing an indefinite hard border with NSW unless the state can "crush and kill the virus".

"We still reserve the right to lockdown in specific locations if absolutely necessary.

I strongly doubt that even with 80% vaccinated, WA will have an open border to NSW if there are still hundreds of cases per day. I think it was on the radio a few days ago that McGowan said the national cabinet agreement was zero community transmission.

McMaoan better be careful sprouting off that sort of nonsense or he’ll never get anywhere near 80%. You need the threat of cases to get people vaccinated. No cases, no threat of community transmission and you’ll struggle to even get past 70%. His loyal subjects, the apathetic bogan majority in WA, have been lulled into a false sense of security thanks to him. The national vaccine stats confirm it.

Although part of me thinks it may be his plan after all. The closed border is winning him votes and no one can leave to spend their money in more interesting parts of the country or the world...he probably doesn’t care if 80% is ever reached, because it gives him the power to stay shut for a lot longer.

SOPS

9th Aug 2021, 12:51

McMaoan better be careful sprouting off that sort of nonsense or he’ll never get anywhere near 80%. You need the threat of cases to get people vaccinated. No cases, no threat of community transmission and you’ll struggle to even get past 70%. His loyal subjects, the apathetic bogan majority in WA, have been lulled into a false sense of security thanks to him. The national vaccine stats confirm it.

Although part of me thinks it may be his plan after all. The closed border is winning him votes and no one can leave to spend their money in more interesting parts of the country or the world...he probably doesn’t care if 80% is ever reached, because it gives him the power to stay shut for a lot longer.

Please be careful . We are not bogans. My wife and I are both fully vaxed with AZ. We are very happy with what Mark does ( and are life long Liberal voters).

Please think twice before you make these sweeping statements .

nonsense

9th Aug 2021, 13:19

There’s an identified cognitive condition that describes it, the Dunning Kruger effect. It’s people who are so unintelligent they don’t have the capacity to realise they are incorrect (you don’t know what you don’t know).

The Dunning Kruger effect isn't a "cognitive condition", we're all prone to it; and it's not about a lack of intelligence.
The Dunning Kruger effect is about ignorance and confidence; it's about ignorance breeding confidence; a certain level of understanding helps one understand just how little one does know.

You've demonstrated it quite well by claiming it's about intelligence.

WingNut60

9th Aug 2021, 13:26

Although part of me thinks it may be his plan after all. The closed border is winning him votes and no one can leave to spend their money in more interesting parts of the country or the world...he probably doesn’t care if 80% is ever reached, because it gives him the power to stay shut for a lot longer.
No bogans here either. Two more days and my wife and I will be fully vaxxed.
That this is only happening now has absolutely nothing to do with Mark McGowan but falls 100% into ScoMo's lap.

The closed border is winning him votes and no one can leave to spend their money in more interesting parts of the country or the world...he probably doesn’t care if 80% is ever reached, because it gives him the power to stay shut for a lot longer.
The closed border is winning him no votes at all. The freedom of movement, continuing employment and freedom from disease is certainly a vote winner though.
You see, most West Australians are quite capable of forgoing pilgrimages to the Sydney Bowlo provided they are still gainfully employed, healthy, enjoying an otherwise unencumbered lifestyle and don't have to worry about how they can get to Grandad and Nan's funeral.

As for the travel, we should be OK for SA, VIC, QLD, NT and Tassie again before too long.
And we'd still be able to commute with NZ if Beryl hadn't screwed the pooch.

dr dre

9th Aug 2021, 13:40

I think it was on the radio a few days ago that McGowan said the national cabinet agreement was zero community transmission.

It's this episode from ABC Radio (https://www.abc.net.au/radio/perth/programs/drive/drive/13478294) last Friday starting from 24 minutes into the program. It's clearly stated the National Cabinet goal is for suppression with no community transmission given our current vaccination rates (18%), not future rates (70/80%). Currently the nation is in Phase A, in which no community transmission is the goal agreed to by all states. Then when you get to Phase B and C (https://www.pm.gov.au/sites/default/files/media/national-plan-060821_0.pdf) that changes. The WA government has made statements saying the 70% to 80% vaccination rate is when hotel quarantine and lockdowns (https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/mark-mcgowan-says-80-per-cent-of-australia-needs-to-be-vaccinated-before-hotel-quarantine-ends-c-3188042) can be ended.

EDIT:

Here's the Doherty Institute modelling (https://www.doherty.edu.au/uploads/content_doc/DohertyModelling_NationalPlan_including_adendmum.pdf) that was used in formulating the decisions made by National Cabinet. Check out the tables on page 17 and 18. The numbers of cases, hospital admissions, ICU admissions and deaths are noted at various levels of vaccine coverage. Although the higher rates of coverage at 70 and 80% markedly decrease the numbers they are still somewhat prevalent, but all states and territories and the feds signed off on the Roadmap based on this modelling. So all States and Territories are acknowledging there will be some spread and fatalities, just at much more manageable numbers with a high level of vaccination.

aviation_enthus

9th Aug 2021, 15:39

Penalties are clearly not sufficient deterrent…..fines don’t matter to some…so perhaps if they seem to like moving around….take their drivers licence and passport from them for 5 Years!
As alluded to in previous posts, these transgressions are costing the country billions, so we need tougher penalties.

Or perhaps you guys getting all worked up about this could realise NO system will have 100% compliance.

No current law has 100% compliance.

So if the “health response” can’t cope with a small minority breaking the rules, the system needs to be strengthened.

Transition Layer

9th Aug 2021, 20:51

No bogans here either. Two more days and my wife and I will be fully vaxxed.
That this is only happening now has absolutely nothing to do with Mark McGowan but falls 100% into ScoMo's lap.

The closed border is winning him no votes at all. The freedom of movement, continuing employment and freedom from disease is certainly a vote winner though.
You see, most West Australians are quite capable of forgoing pilgrimages to the Sydney Bowlo provided they are still gainfully employed, healthy, enjoying an otherwise unencumbered lifestyle and don't have to worry about how they can get to Grandad and Nan's funeral.

As for the travel, we should be OK for SA, VIC, QLD, NT and Tassie again before too long.
And we'd still be able to commute with NZ if Beryl hadn't screwed the pooch.

Good for you getting jabbed, but you and SOPS are not the people I was referring to. I live in Perth, I mix in various cross circles of the community. I am well aware of the vibe out there. It is one of apathy when it comes to getting vaccinated. I hope I’m wrong, but happy to revisit this in 4 months time when I suspect WA will still be at the bottom of the jab tally, hovering around 65%. Unless of course there’s a sustained breakout in which case there will no doubt be vaccine queues and panic.

As for your comment about the border policy keeping people gainfully employed, have a look around mate. You’re on a pilot forum. I think very few people here would now have a more secure job thanks to Chairman McMaoan!

blubak

9th Aug 2021, 21:22

Yeah avoid lismore like the plague. The 2 kids of the byran bay man have been caught are in lismore hospital apparently
I guess they dont believe the virus is real either or maybe their father has changed his mind now.

WingNut60

9th Aug 2021, 21:37

As for your comment about the border policy keeping people gainfully employed, have a look around mate. You’re on a pilot forum. I think very few people here would now have a more secure job thanks to Chairman McMaoan!

You're correct. I wasn't singling out industry groups. And McGowan's policies have obviously had a significant intermittent, impact on the inter-state aviation sector.
But my office is directly under the approach to 24 - intra-state traffic doesn't seem to have suffered much while the mining sector is still protected by McGowan's policies and still very bullish.

But tell me, how is inter-state and intra-state aviation doing in NSW at the moment? Gonna hang that off McGowan too?

SHVC

9th Aug 2021, 22:04

You're correct. I wasn't singling out industry groups. And McGowan's policies have obviously had a significant intermittent, impact on the inter-state aviation sector.
But my office is directly under the approach to 24 - intra-state traffic doesn't seem to have suffered much while the mining sector is still protected by McGowan's policies and still very bullish.

But tell me, how is inter-state and intra-state aviation doing in NSW at the moment? Gonna hang that off McGowan too?

NSW problems are caused by NSW government, today Chant and Hazzard are to front a parliamentary inquiry (which is as pointless as national cabinet) over the advice she provided to NSW government about when Sydney needed to lockdown.

NSW is as cooked as a Turkey on xmas day, for me, the most frustrating thing is ppl know they wont get criminally charged with anything. Its now time to charge these rule breakers they need to be in a court and going to the clink its happening daily these clowns doing their own thing.

StudentInDebt

9th Aug 2021, 22:47

Good for you getting jabbed, but you and SOPS are not the people I was referring to. I live in Perth, I mix in various cross circles of the community. I am well aware of the vibe out there. It is one of apathy when it comes to getting vaccinated. I hope I’m wrong, but happy to revisit this in 4 months time when I suspect WA will still be at the bottom of the jab tally, hovering around 65%. Unless of course there’s a sustained breakout in which case there will no doubt be vaccine queues and panic.
Or the resources sector insist that all employees/contractors are vaccinated as a condition of employment. Should see a pickup in the uptake!

Foxxster

9th Aug 2021, 22:50

NSW problems are caused by NSW government, today Chant and Hazzard are to front a parliamentary inquiry (which is as pointless as national cabinet) over the advice she provided to NSW government about when Sydney needed to lockdown.

NSW is as cooked as a Turkey on xmas day, for me, the most frustrating thing is ppl know they wont get criminally charged with anything. Its now time to charge these rule breakers they need to be in a court and going to the clink its happening daily these clowns doing their own thing.

it is truly unbelievable. The latest I heard this morning about this clown who went to Byron bay after visiting his covid positive wife is that he is saying he went there to look at a property to purchase. And you guessed it, there is an exemption in the lockdown rules that say you can leave your area for such a purpose. There is no distance limit put on how far you can go. So it looks like yet another fork up by our wonderful public servants. Just like the non compulsory measures for the driver who started all this. And there would be plenty of these useless public servants on two hundred thousand a year plus who gave the thumbs up to these rules. Yet none will suffer any consequences. They have also not lost a single cent since this all started 18 months ago.

having said that, I would hope he can be charged with public endangerment having visited his covid positive wife before going.

dr dre

9th Aug 2021, 22:59

it is truly unbelievable. The latest I heard this morning about this clown who went to Byron bay after visiting his covid positive wife is that he is saying he went there to look at a property to purchase. And you guessed it, there is an exemption in the lockdown rules that say you can leave your area for such a purpose. There is no distance limit put on how far you can go.

Of course. The real estate industry and property developers have a stranglehold on all governments but especially Berejiklian and her deputy Barilaro, up to their necks in property developer influence. Housing price growth and real estate sales will always be maintained, that’s non negotiable.

KRviator

9th Aug 2021, 23:20

The WA CHO made this statement (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-18/wa-hard-lockdown-approach-pathway-out-of-covid/100301206): WA's Chief Health Officer Andrew Robertson wants to see at least 80 per cent of the WA population vaccinated before we get to a point where lockdowns and border closures are no longer needed.

The key is vaccination numbers, and 70% initially, then 80% more firmly, to end restrictions. So what is his plan if we do not achieve that figure? Because, so far as I can tell, there isn't one! These are "targets", these 70%, 80% figures, and while they are based on "health advice" they do not provide any guideline or response should these goals not be met! But also from that article:
Jaya Dantas from Curtin University's School of Population Health says it is a "hugely ambitious target". I am not sure at this stage whether we will reach 80 per cent," Professor Dantas said. No country has reached even 70 per cent. The USA and the UK are slightly over 50 per cent of the population.Meanwhile, in Iceland...Iceland is experiencing its worst Covid-19 pandemic outbreak. That’s despite near-total vaccination levels. And what Delta’s doing there may now be a sign of things to come for Australia. The small island nation of 357,000 citizens has become a case study of the effectiveness of vaccination against the Delta mutation.

Some 96 per cent of all Icelandic women over 16 have received at least one vaccine dose. The figure for men is about 90 per cent. In total, 86 per cent of the population has been fully vaccinated.But my office is directly under the approach to 24 - intra-state traffic doesn't seem to have suffered much while the mining sector is still protected by McGowan's policies and still very bullish.Actually, not quite true. My employer is desperately crying out (begging might be a better term...) for crew to do significant overtime (residential) or change from their contracted 2/2 to indefinite 2/1 roster's (FIFO) due to the effect the border restrictions are having on their interstate FIFO crew, offering many thousands of dollars in incentives, LAFHA and the like to try to keep things moving. But that carrot is running out, particularly for a lot of interstate FIFO Driver's who have been held hostage by WA for more than a year. They want to go home to see their families, and they're becoming increasingly prepared to do just that and wear the lost AL or go on LWOP knowing they can't get back in to WA, no matter how hard the major ore producers insist interstate FIFO crew are essential to their operations.....

WA's budget has been kept afloat by record iron ore prices, nothing more. I can only wonder what their response would have been if the spot price was back in 2016 levels, below $50 a tonne...

Global Aviator

9th Aug 2021, 23:49

Singapore is pretty close!

https://www.gstatic.com/onebox/sports/logos/flags/singapore_icon_square.png
Singapore
Total doses given 8.04M
People fully vaccinated 3.81M
66.8 % fully vaccinated

Torukmacto

10th Aug 2021, 00:11

Singapore is pretty close!

https://www.gstatic.com/onebox/sports/logos/flags/singapore_icon_square.png
Singapore
Total doses given 8.04M
People fully vaccinated 3.81M
66.8 % fully vaccinated

Singapore’s Goverment can tell the people of Singapore what is going to happen and that’s what happens . Better to compare to Australia to democracies like India , U.K. or America to see where we might be heading ? Being an island has delayed what’s coming that’s all .

dr dre

10th Aug 2021, 00:13

So what is his plan if we do not achieve that figure? Because, so far as I can tell, there isn't one! These are "targets", these 70%, 80% figures, and while they are based on "health advice" they do not provide any guideline or response should these goals not be met! But also from that article:

Well I guess the plan, as agreed to by National Cabinet, is to remain in Phase A, so lockdowns and restrictions.

But I don’t think that’ll happen, just to clarify the rates of 70 and 80% are based on the over 16 population, not total population. So that would boost Australia’s rate to 23% at the moment, and then you have the UK over 70% of over 18s, Canada at 71% of over 12s, and the trend line in vaccinations in those countries is still heading upwards so Australia’s targets should be achievable.

Meanwhile, in Iceland...

Also, meanwhile, in Iceland (from the same news.com.au article which in typical news.com.au fashion sensationalises the headline but buries less fearing mongering info deep in the article):The latest outbreak – despite its size – has so far claimed none (lives).

It (the vaccine) is limiting hospitalisation and death.

Iceland’s government is not discouraged.

“Evidence shows that the vaccines used in Iceland protect about 60 per cent of those fully vaccinated against any kind of infection caused by the Delta variant of the virus and over 90 per cent against serious illnesses,” Iceland’s Director-General Bryndís Kjartansdóttir said.

“About 97 per cent of those infected have mild or no symptoms.”

For a more sensible take on the situation in Iceland check out this:

Fact Check-COVID-19 cases in Iceland are not proof that vaccines are ineffective (https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-iceland-vaccines-idUSL1N2P918F)

AerialPerspective

10th Aug 2021, 00:13

Singapore’s Goverment can tell the people of Singapore what is going to happen and that’s what happens . Better to compare to Australia to democracies like India , U.K. or America to see where we might be heading ? Being an island has delayed what’s coming that’s all .

Last time I checked, 'America' was a continent (two in fact), named for Amerigo Vespucci which contained several obvious non-democratic states. Perhaps the United States and Canada is what you meant????

Global Aviator

10th Aug 2021, 00:18

Singapore’s Goverment can tell the people of Singapore what is going to happen and that’s what happens . Better to compare to Australia to democracies like India , U.K. or America to see where we might be heading ? Being an island has delayed what’s coming that’s all .

The below from lazy googling.

USA - 51%

https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/

UK - 68.5% to 76.9%

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/vaccines

Foxxster

10th Aug 2021, 00:39

We have to remember that actions tend to be shaped by our own lived experience. And fortunately or perhaps unfortunately our experience of WuHu flu in Australia has been very different to most other countries. Look at the case and death rates per million population for countries like the uk or the us and compare them to Australia. It has only been due to the latest Sydney outbreak that our vaccination rates have really ramped up. If our politicians are talking about rates of 80%, good luck. Come back this time next year. Getting from 70 to 80% will be a very different story than getting from 40 to 50 or even 50 to 60. Fingers crossed I am wrong .

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Agent_86

10th Aug 2021, 01:09

356 in NSW today and 3 deaths :eek:

PoppaJo

10th Aug 2021, 01:12

SHVC

10th Aug 2021, 01:38

It’s scary now, last yr the nation was at the same position in relation to covid. Now, we have NSW that will be isolated for the foreseeable future, are company already knows this and has requested LWOP applications for SY base only. Thanks Gladys and you have the hide to be still saying this is a hard lockdown nothing more they could of done!

There is never accountability with these politicians 1 Billion a week is just a number.

Transition Layer

10th Aug 2021, 03:22

StudentInDebt

10th Aug 2021, 03:26

Xeptu

10th Aug 2021, 03:51

SOPS

10th Aug 2021, 05:24

I think it’s truly wonderful that people like SOPS and WingNut60, neither of whom are working Pilots, like to come onto a Pilot forum and explain how awesome closed borders are and what a great man McClown is. WingNut tells us everything is fine because the approach to RW24 is busy. FFS! :rolleyes:.

For the record, I don’t think closed borders are awesome. However, I have quite a few friends that are flying in WA every day and I do think that’s awesome. And while we can keep things under control they can keep flying.

in other news, it seems our friend in Ballina does not believe the virus exists.

blubak

10th Aug 2021, 08:04

.

For the record, I don’t think closed borders are awesome. However, I have quite a few friends that are flying in WA every day and I do think that’s awesome. And while we can keep things under control they can keep flying.

in other news, it seems our friend in Ballina does not believe the virus exists.
I wonder what he thinks he has got if his belief is the virus doesnt exist,he obviously cares a lot for his wife too if the story about her being in a syd hospital with covid is correct.
I guess it will never happen in nsw from the way gladys talks but maybe a curfew is what is needed.
If the numbers continue to show there are many out in the community every day infected with the virus it seems to me the only way to stop the spread is to stop people moving around as they are,guess im stating the obvious there.

blubak

10th Aug 2021, 08:09

It looks like the NSW border is done until Q1 next year. December could be challenging, nobody in and nobody out. Fatigue will start to bite as people will want out.

Andrews and McGowan won’t have a bar of it.
I dont think its just those 2 that wont have a bar of it,its possible none of the others will have a bar of it.
If all the other states can keep clean there is a good chance of travel between most states except nsw of course,hopefully this will happen & get people flying again soon.

machtuk

10th Aug 2021, 11:20

As long as the fear out there remains high in the community the hopes & dreams of millions will be kept squashed by the lunatics in charge!

SOPS

10th Aug 2021, 13:23

Well you don’t have to worry. Clive Palmer is now taking out Court Procedures to stop the roll out of vaccines in WA. Im not sure why.. but if this goes ahead (which I’m sure it won’t), but if it did .. we will have to put up a wall of steel to all of the East Coast.

I would love to know what planet Clive lives on.. or what he smokes.

Icarus2001

10th Aug 2021, 14:15

but if it did .. we will have to put up a wall of steel to all of the East Coast. Or not. We could actually do something different, you know like Europe, the UK, USA.

601

10th Aug 2021, 14:20

WA's budget has been kept afloat by record iron ore prices, nothing more. I can only wonder what their response would have been if the spot price was back in 2016 levels, below $50 a tonne...
I didn't know that the WA Govt was paid for the iron ore that was sold. Silly me thought that they got royalties $/ton or am I mistaken.

WingNut60

10th Aug 2021, 14:56

I didn't know that the WA Govt was paid for the iron ore that was sold. Silly me thought that they got royalties $/ton or am I mistaken.
Correct, but volumes are certainly up on the back of the higher prices.

Actually getting some of our GST back has been pretty handy too.

Climb150

10th Aug 2021, 18:04

Correct, but volumes are certainly up on the back of the higher prices.

Actually getting some of our GST back has been pretty handy too.

GST has nothing to do with mining royalties.

WingNut60

10th Aug 2021, 21:18

GST has nothing to do with mining royalties.
I don't remember saying that it had.

The context was the source of WA's relative prosperity at the moment.
WA's budget has been kept afloat by record iron ore prices, nothing more.
It's not all coming from mining royalties.

MickG0105

10th Aug 2021, 23:29

I didn't know that the WA Govt was paid for the iron ore that was sold. Silly me thought that they got royalties $/ton or am I mistaken.
Yes, in this case you are mistaken. Royalties on iron ore exports are levied largely on an ad valorem basis, that is as a percentage of the commodity price index value per tonne that is re-calculated on a regular basis (six monthly I think) using the market price. For direct shipment of unbeneficiated (unconcentrated) iron ore the royalty rate is 7.5 percent of the index value of the shipped product.

If you compare Western Australian state royalty revenue from say 2017-18, when iron ore was trading under $1 per tonne, with last year, with iron ore in the $1.50 and upwards range, there's a difference of over $3 billion or about 60 percent ($5.21 billion in 2017-18 versus $8.29 billion for 2020-21). Over half of the increased total revenue between those two budgets ($28.5 billion versus $34.1 billion) is driven by royalties, which are in turn driven by the iron ore price.

WingNut60

11th Aug 2021, 00:52

Yes, in this case you are mistaken................
True. But many people are misled into thinking that the spot pricing reflects actual revenue.
The vast bulk of the iron ore sold from W.A. is sold on long-term contracts which are at a rate considerably below the oft-quoted newspaper headline prices but are a more secure revenue source for the larger producers.

Ladloy

11th Aug 2021, 02:21

344 cases today. What a gold standard **** up

KRviator

11th Aug 2021, 02:37

344 cases today. What a gold standard **** upBit harsh I think. Delta doesn't seem to be playing by the extant rules.

Consider the UK, 89% of eligible adults with their 1st does, 75% have had both. Yet they still racked up 23,510 new cases yesterday, and 146 deaths. Source (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/)

"Australian-ising" that would give 8,965 new cases Oz-wide and 55 deaths, based on Australia's population being 38% of the UK.
"NSWelsh-anising" it would give 2,889 new cases in NSW and 18 deaths. based on NSW's population being 12% of the UK.

And remember, that's with 75% of their adults having had both vaccinations!

SOPS

11th Aug 2021, 03:05

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-11/police-to-charge-sydney-man-who-sparked-byron-bay-covid-lockdown/100368176

Our friend from Byron.

Police have charged a Sydney man who travelled to Byron Bay, and subsequently sparked a COVID-19 lockdown in the area.

Zoran Radovanovic, from Rose Bay, travelled to the popular holiday destination with his two children last month.

Police allege Mr Radovanovic, 52, made the journey without a reasonable excuse.

The shires of Byron, Richmond Valley, Lismore and Ballina were on Monday put into a seven-day lockdown and numerous exposure sites were listed.

They're all within the Queensland-NSW border zone where locals have been allowed to travel across state lines for "permitted purposes", including grocery shopping.

The future court attendance notice will be served on Mr Radovanovic, who remains at Lismore Base Hospital with strict bail conditions after testing positive for COVID-19.

His two children have also tested positive for COVID-19.

"The 52-year-old man from Rose Bay will be charged with breaching the public health order after he travelled from Sydney to Byron Bay and surrounding areas without reasonable excuse and for breaching public health orders," said NSW Police Assistant Commissioner Peter McKenna.

Mr Radovanovic will be required to appear at Lismore Court on September 13 and will be under strict bail conditions until then.

"I would appeal to all members of community regardless of where you come from to abide by these public health orders," said Assistant Commissioner McKenna.

"It is the only way we are going to stop this virus spreading in regional NSW and keep our community safe."

Health authorities in NSW confirmed no new cases had been identified in the area in the 24 hours to 8:00pm yesterday.

Turnleft080

11th Aug 2021, 03:25

The most disturbing comment from Dan this morning was "I will do anything to protect you from this virus". This
is after a heckler, probably someone thats gone to the wall, was heard in the background.
What ever happened to looking after our own health that's been happening since Adam & Eve
decided to go to the disco. However, the advice from public health is to follow the science.
What a magnificent comment, something thats written in stone from the University of spinology.
The smirks, show the extent of the spin.

Chris2303

11th Aug 2021, 03:35

344 cases today. What a gold standard **** up

If citizens would do as they were told there would be a gold standard etc

Ladloy

11th Aug 2021, 03:44

Bit harsh I think. Delta doesn't seem to be playing by the extant rules.

Consider the UK, 89% of eligible adults with their 1st does, 75% have had both. Yet they still racked up 23,510 new cases yesterday, and 146 deaths. Source (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/)

"Australian-ising" that would give 8,965 new cases Oz-wide and 55 deaths, based on Australia's population being 38% of the UK.
"NSWelsh-anising" it would give 2,889 new cases in NSW and 18 deaths. based on NSW's population being 12% of the UK.

And remember, that's with 75% of their adults having had both vaccinations!
well we're on our way and don't forget deaths lag behind case numbers. She could have locked it down earlier but she had to play politics

itsnotthatbloodyhard

11th Aug 2021, 03:53

well we're on our way and don't forget deaths lag behind case numbers. She could have locked it down earlier but she had to play politics

I’m not sure it really matters much when she decided to apply the lockdown, given that so many people out there are failing to abide by it anyway.

Lead Balloon

11th Aug 2021, 04:03

^^^This^^^

No point making a rule and not being willing and able to enforce it effectively. That's the half-arsed way of doing it.

MickG0105

11th Aug 2021, 04:17

True. But many people are misled into thinking that the spot pricing reflects actual revenue.
The vast bulk of the iron ore sold from W.A. is sold on long-term contracts which are at a rate considerably below the oft-quoted newspaper headline prices but are a more secure revenue source for the larger producers.
The manner in which iron ore export contracts are structured has changed significantly over the years. Long gone are the days of the Japanese steel industry calling in BHP and Hamersley sales execs and essentially setting an annual price. Once Chinese demand created a seller's market the pricing structure evolved to include regular price reviews; first six monthly, then quarterly and eventually to what we see these days where most contracts have a monthly price review mechanism.

So, yes, there is a difference between spot and contract prices but the margin is nowhere near what it once was.

It was that evolution in contract pricing that led the WA government to make more frequent adjustments to the commodity index value that is applied to calculate royalty payments.

Ladloy

11th Aug 2021, 04:25

I’m not sure it really matters much when she decided to apply the lockdown, given that so many people out there are failing to abide by it anyway.
That's because it's not being enforced and that comes down to politics. They don't want to be seen as too authoritarian but it just prolongs this outbreak.

gerry111

11th Aug 2021, 04:46

If you compare Western Australian state royalty revenue from say 2017-18, when iron ore was trading under $1 per tonne, with last year, with iron ore in the $1.50 and upwards range, there's a difference of over $3 billion or about 60 percent ($5.21 billion in 2017-18 versus $8.29 billion for 2020-21).
I reckon you meant iron ore trading at under $100 per tonne and subsequently over $150.

MickG0105

11th Aug 2021, 05:03

I reckon you meant iron ore trading at under $100 per tonne and subsequently over $150.
D'oh! Yes, quite correct. Can I blame the error on feeling a bit foggy after my second AZ shot yesterday?

Lead Balloon

11th Aug 2021, 05:16

That would be the bluetooth chip that's been injected into you! It will be interesting to see which of Bill and Belinda takes over control of your life, their having been give a 50/50 split of the assets on divorce.

machtuk

11th Aug 2021, 06:14

Paragraph377

11th Aug 2021, 07:48

Foxxster

11th Aug 2021, 08:13

^^^This^^^

No point making a rule and not being willing and able to enforce it effectively. That's the half-arsed way of doing it.

another 500 army personnel will be coming to Sydney

I mentioned that we would be in lockdown in Sydney until the grand final weekend in early October. Well now Gladys says until November at least. Until we get 70% vaccinated. And then what. They still can’t or won’t tell us what restrictions will be lifted. They are still working through that. Because 8 weeks of lockdown already just isn’t enough time.

and as for Byron man, well apparently the police have told the health idiots that the health regulations need to be re written. Which will start tomorrow. I wonder if that will take eight weeks. In the meantime, let’s all plan our vacations. Just make sure you book in to inspect a property at your holiday destination. Yes I know Byron man has just been charged but who knows if it will stick. Seeing as the rules are having to be re written. I mean that surely could be used by him in defence.

Lead Balloon

11th Aug 2021, 08:29

When the enforcement of the lockdown rules involves the ADF and police physically restraining people from moving in breach of the lockdown laws, as the ADF and police have interpreted them, and the ADF and police incarcerate those who resist, Australia will have finally reached the end of the beginning of the response to this pandemic.

Pray, to whichever deity you subscribe, that the Omega strain takes its time.

Turnleft080

11th Aug 2021, 08:43

Regarding COVID, may I add how these hypocritical political bull**** artists have allowed famous actors, sports people, wealthy people and even their political selves through the system regardless of domestic and international lockdowns, because why - they contribute to the economy! Really? Here is a fact - unlocking the effing lockdowns and allowing business and normal activities to flourish WILL ALSO CONTRIBUTE TO THE ECONOMY. You absolute morons…..

If the whole friggen country opened all domestic borders right now and mandated masks and sanitiser (Australia wide) which prevent the spread,
the hospitalisations would be no different as they now. Dealing with recalcitrant premiers is the reason why business are collapsing and all of us not flying.

The SA Olympians just did 14 days quarantine in NSW and now have to do an extra 14 days of iso in SA. They are fully vaxed
and all negative. Makes you wonder if this 70% quota is load of spin as well. As someone said 7 governments, 1 country.

cessnapete

11th Aug 2021, 09:04

It is troubling to see the contrary advice still being pushed by Politicians Down Under. Obviously here in Europe, big mistakes were made in hindsight at the beginning of the C19 saga. But now with some 80% vaccination in the whole population in the UK over a reasonable period, some proven data is now available.
AZ is overwhelmingly safe and still in use.
The medical opinion is that C19 is here to stay, 0 infections are unattainable in the long term, unless like NZ you are happy to Lockdown seemingly indefinitely with no travel. ( Unless you own Google!)
Mass vaccination 80% + can bring back some normalcy, even works with the D strain.
Comments for example re not having the vaccination during pregnancy runs completely opposite to the UK National Health Service now officially recommending vaccination when pregnant , due to the real danger of contacting C19 during this time.
We must try and avoid mixed messages Worldwide.

KRviator

11th Aug 2021, 09:29

We must try and avoid mixed messages Worldwide.We've got the NSW Premier and her CHO saying "Get the AZ vaccine if it's available, Covid is more of a risk than blood clots". We've got the Qld Premier and her CHO saying "I wouldn't give it to my worst enemy - what if they died! I don't want that particular death on my conscience."

We can't even avoid mixed messages across the Tweed River yet alone an international border! :mad::ugh:

Potsie Weber

11th Aug 2021, 09:38

If the whole friggen country opened all domestic borders right now and mandated masks and sanitiser (Australia wide) which prevent the spread,
the hospitalisations would be no different as they now. Dealing with recalcitrant premiers is the reason why business are collapsing and all of us not flying.

The SA Olympians just did 14 days quarantine in NSW and now have to do an extra 14 days of iso in SA. They are fully vaxed
and all negative. Makes you wonder if this 70% quota is load of spin as well. As someone said 7 governments, 1 country.

Why on earth did they bring the athletes back through Sydney in the first place?

Turnleft080

11th Aug 2021, 10:01

Why on earth did they bring the athletes back through Sydney in the first place?

Don't know maybe because JAL don't fly to ADL. Another "Yes Minister" script.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-11/sa-covid-quarantine-rules-slammed-australian-olympic-committee/100369432

KRviator

11th Aug 2021, 10:03

Seriously? You can't make this stuff up...From 7:00pm the Walgett Shire LGA will be under stay-at-home orders for a week, as well as Bogan, Bourke, Brewarrina, Coonamble, Gilgandra, Narromine, and Warren. Health authorities say a man who returned a positive COVID test is from Walgett, 230km east of Bourke, and was in Dubbo and Bathurst during his infectious period.

AAhh, grashopper, but where exactly was this Covid test undertaken?

He was tested on Saturday while in custody at the prison in a routine screening procedure for new inmates. He was released on bail on Monday.

He was confirmed as a COVID-positive case this afternoon.Source (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-11/covid-case-walgett-dubbo-bathurst-jail-lockdown/100369258)

What the hell happened to "Thou shall isolate until zee test is negative"? Keep the asrehole in prison until his test comes back, and then release him on bail. FFS.

ruprecht

11th Aug 2021, 11:03

another 500 army personnel will be coming to Sydney

Just when they thought their tours in the Middle East were over.

601

11th Aug 2021, 13:31

No point making a rule and not being willing and able to enforce it effectively. That's the half-arsed way of doing it.

Why does it need to be "enforced"
I get it.
It has to be "enforced" on the same cohort who zoom past me at traffic lights when I stop on the red, or the person who crossed a train line when the boom gates are down and the lights flashing.

Or is this the start of a Darwinian period in human history?

WingNut60

11th Aug 2021, 13:55

Why does it need to be "enforced"
I get it.
It has to be "enforced" on the same cohort who zoom past me at traffic lights when I stop on the red, or the person who crossed a train line when the boom gates are down and the lights flashing.

Or is this the start of a Darwinian period in human history?
It needs to be enforced because this group are intent on dragging you onto the train lines with them.

SOPS

11th Aug 2021, 14:40

It needs to be enforced because this group are intent on dragging you onto the train lines with them.

Having lived in “other countries “ for many years.. some people don’t believe laws apply to them. At the moment .. they should all be arrested .

hamfists

11th Aug 2021, 21:11

3 out of 4 of the big airlines in the USA have backed out of vaccine mandates because the staff and unions aren’t having it

ScepticalOptomist

11th Aug 2021, 21:46

Doherty institute modelling for Delta - up to 5000 or so deaths across Australia if no lockdowns imposed and virus left unchecked.

Is that an ‘acceptable’ number? Each one of us has a different opinion. Those unaffected by the devastation to livelihoods will have a differing view than those of us most affected.

We are getting close to “let it rip”.

Lead Balloon

11th Aug 2021, 22:11

FIFY: We are getting close to it ripping, whether we like it or not.

SHVC

11th Aug 2021, 22:45

Thanks to Gladys gold standard it’s ripping in NSW East to as far west as the border now. North as Balina only a matter of days before Albury is hit.

Liklik balus

11th Aug 2021, 22:53

Turnleft080

11th Aug 2021, 23:59

Fellow Victorian Ppruners, the further 1 week lockdown extension that was announced yesterday will AGAIN be extended by another week. Buckle up until August 26!
And I so advise!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaagh!!!
Nothing new. It's government policy. The virus was designed to have a 14 day incubation period.
Always add 14 days to any mystery case.
As I say that another thought just came through. What if the virus was the same as the flu incubation
period of 3 days. I don't think lockdowns would never eventuate.

Climb150

12th Aug 2021, 00:53

3 out of 4 of the big airlines in the USA have backed out of vaccine mandates because the staff and unions aren’t having it

The one that hasn't backed down is the one with the most international flying.

Non story.

SOPS

12th Aug 2021, 01:09

There are reports now that the ACT will go into lock down shortly.

Paragraph377

12th Aug 2021, 01:37

There are reports now that the ACT will go into lock down shortly.
It would be nice if the Politicians were to lose their livelihoods and feel the same pain as everybody else. But of course, if there was a risk of that happening to them the word ‘lockdown’ wouldn’t even exist. Arrogant, contemptible assholes.

SOPS

12th Aug 2021, 01:49

There are reports now that the ACT will go into lock down shortly.

7 day lock down confirmed.
NSW has fallen.

SHVC

12th Aug 2021, 01:56

So NSW, VIC and ACT in lockdown, QLD heavily restricted how do these decision makers think the general population can survive. It’s definitely looking liking the cure is worse than the disease.

Ladloy

12th Aug 2021, 02:11

So NSW, VIC and ACT in lockdown, QLD heavily restricted how do these decision makers think the general population can survive. It’s definitely looking liking the cure is worse than the disease.
Until our double dose vaccination rates are above 80% I strongly disagree.

Paragraph377

12th Aug 2021, 02:24

Until our double dose vaccination rates are above 80% I strongly disagree.

Oh please. Or until they change the target to 91% or the current measures don’t work for the new variants, or all preschoolers, cats and dogs need to now be vaccinated, so let’s lock it all down again blah blah blah. These wankers are making it up on the run. Governments aren’t capable of organising a church picnic let alone protecting its people through a real emergency. Anyone who accepts the BS coming from the Governments mouths is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Xeptu

12th Aug 2021, 02:45

Oh please. Or until they change the target to 91% or the current measures don’t work for the new variants, or all preschoolers, cats and dogs need to now be vaccinated, so let’s lock it all down again blah blah blah. These wankers are making it up on the run. Governments aren’t capable of organising a church picnic let alone protecting its people through a real emergency. Anyone who accepts the BS coming from the Governments mouths is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Clearly you don't think there should be any lockdowns at all, which essentially means "let it rip" Can I ask you what your expectation is of how life will be if we do that.

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 02:52

Can I ask you what your expectation is of how life will be if we do that.

The recent cancellation of bus services because of an outbreak in the depot is a good reminder that things wont be normal with high covid in the community. And businesses will be making equally less income because half the population would be too scared to leave home, basically what is happening overseas.

ruprecht

12th Aug 2021, 02:59

The recent cancellation of bus services because of an outbreak in the depot is a good reminder that things wont be normal with high covid in the community. And businesses will be making equally less income because half the population would be too scared to leave home, basically what is happening overseas.
Aggressive suppression is needed until everyone eligible has been offered the vaccine. After that, I imagine society will become increasingly non-compliant with restrictions.

Paragraph377

12th Aug 2021, 03:14

Clearly you don't think there should be any lockdowns at all, which essentially means "let it rip" Can I ask you what your expectation is of how life will be if we do that.
So you think locking down the entire ACT with a financial impact of hundreds of millions of dollars, probably more, because 1 person has COVID, is a great idea for a virus that infects around 1% of the population with deaths mainly occurring in the over 80 years of age bracket?Seriously, you people have lost the plot. This is insanity.

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 03:24

Here's some interesting stats,

From the 15th to the 28th July 2019 Victoria registered 204 (54 businesses) personal insolvencies including business owners.

From 12th of July to 25th July 2021 only 41 (11 businesses) insolvencies were recorded.

Since the 13th of July 2020 the insolvency figure has not risen above 100 per fortnight.

https://www.afsa.gov.au/about-us/statistics/quarterly-personal-insolvency-statistics

Why the figure has dropped so much, no idea, it's way against what even I was thinking.

Paragraph377

12th Aug 2021, 03:42

Xeptu

12th Aug 2021, 03:43

So you think locking down the entire ACT with a financial impact of hundreds of millions of dollars, probably more, because 1 person has COVID, is a great idea for a virus that infects around 1% of the population with deaths mainly occurring in the over 80 years of age bracket?Seriously, you people have lost the plot. This is insanity.

It's not about what I think and you are clearly a bit behind the current state of the pandemic. you haven't answered the question.

Paragraph377

12th Aug 2021, 03:50

It's not about what I think and you are clearly a bit behind the current state of the pandemic. you haven't answered the question.
And I’m not going to answer the question as it will only see me labelled as a conspiracy theorist and create space for ongoing attacks. I will leave it to you serving pilots/epidemiologists (jack of all trades) to continue with your belief that these shutdowns are the key to future happy days. 👍

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 03:53

Trusting Government statistics is like putting trust in a rapist at a school carnival that he won’t offend.

Just an idiotic statement, everything in the economy agrees with the figures. As I've said all along there is no evidence of extra bankruptcies, suicides etc. You need to get your head checked if you are starting to think the world is against you, that is known as Paranoia, and is a mental illness.

House prices are up, inflation is creeping up, unemployment is down. A survey of businesses has found 20% of business is struggling to find enough workforce etc etc.

If you are a Pilot, well these are the hard times the old pilots have talked about. Part of the job, boom bust etc.

Now there were some extra bankruptcy protections added in 2020, but the rate should have been much higher by now with the 6 month period ended for the first round.

Xeptu

12th Aug 2021, 03:55

And I’m not going to answer the question as it will only see me labelled as a conspiracy theorist and create space for ongoing attacks. I will leave it to you serving pilots/epidemiologists (jack of all trades) to continue with your belief that these shutdowns are the key to future happy days. 👍

Ok, in that case don't be coming in here and telling us we're all insane and there's a better way of doing this without telling us what that is exactly.

Turnleft080

12th Aug 2021, 04:03

Until our double dose vaccination rates are above 80% I strongly disagree.
You do realise they threw darts at a board to come up with that number. It's what public health do on
Friday nights when they get on the beers. Because they are so faceless who's to say that I'm wrong.

ruprecht

12th Aug 2021, 04:09

If you are a Pilot, well these are the hard times the old pilots have talked about. Part of the job, boom bust etc.

We lived in a hole in the road…

Xeptu

12th Aug 2021, 04:19

What Pandemic? The Economical Pandemic?

If we're doing it wrong then by all means call it out. But you must provide a solution on which is the right way, Then we will peer review that.

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 04:21

You do realise they threw darts at a board to come up with that number. It's what public health do on
Friday nights when they get on the beers. Because they are so faceless who's to say that I'm wrong.

Over a year ago they knew the answer, I watched an Interview back then listing the vaccination rate and the number they said then was 80-90%. The magic number was 60% actual immunity rate in the population required to curb and significantly slow community transmission. Then factor that by Vaccine efficacy of say mean 75% which is where the 80% required vaccinated population comes from. The issue was that getting above 75% would be hard due to issues like people who cant take the vaccine and anti vaxxers.

Paragraph377

12th Aug 2021, 04:22

If we're doing it wrong then by all means call it out. But you must provide a solution on which is the right way, Then we will peer review that.
Oh dear, the Chairman of the ‘I’m Scared Of COVID’ fan club has spoken once again.

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 04:32

The only real way out, is for everyone to be on the same page and call it out. There needs to be accountability, in which, nobody seems to be taking!!!!!!

What do you want accountability for? that's just a sweeping statement politicians use when they have no mud to throw on an opposite.

Paragraph377

12th Aug 2021, 04:34

Just an idiotic statement, everything in the economy agrees with the figures. As I've said all along there is no evidence of extra bankruptcies, suicides etc. You need to get your head checked if you are starting to think the world is against you, that is known as Paranoia, and is a mental illness.

House prices are up, inflation is creeping up, unemployment is down. A survey of businesses has found 20% of business is struggling to find enough workforce etc etc.

If you are a Pilot, well these are the hard times the old pilots have talked about. Part of the job, boom bust etc.

Now there were some extra bankruptcy protections added in 2020, but the rate should have been much higher by now with the 6 month period ended for the first round.

You are serious, right? So all those city cafe’s are doing fine? So the tourism industry is doing wonderful and not bleeding to death? Those thousands of taxi’s in the lockdown cities are doing a roaring trade? Mate, take a look at every sector and not just one or two areas. And you think that rising inflation is a good thing? Again, try studying finance. And finally, good old house prices being pushed up by people panicking about getting a home at any cost. Yep, no bubble or risk there.

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 04:43

You are serious, right? So all those city cafe’s are doing fine? So the tourism industry is doing wonderful and not bleeding to death? Those thousands of taxi’s in the lockdown cities are doing a roaring trade? Mate, take a look at every sector and not just one or two areas. And you think that rising inflation is a good thing? Again, try studying finance. And finally, good old house prices being pushed up by people panicking about getting a home at any cost. Yep, no bubble or risk there.

Never said everyone was doing fine, just the majority, as always. However you are getting worked up about what you think is happening, rather that what is.

The Australian house bubble has been tipped to burst since the Howard years, guess what, its still bubbling, and the reasoning is sound. Australia can afford it. The reality is that Joe Older Guy who has owned property in the inner city for 50 years can just sell up his house and buy an apartment or bigger house in the burbs and still have cash left. He then gives his kids a leg up into the housing industry and they buy a house in the burbs or city, keeping the prices up. Until that cash runs out Aussie homes will stay high. A large proportion of home owners own their house outright. Again don't base your beliefs on just what is your situation. Good mate is a 50+ year real-estate agent in the suburbs, he sees no end to the prices steadily rising, unless of course something completely left field happens, way worse than covid.

BTW a year ago both of us though house prices would crash due to Covid, we were very wrong.

Xeptu

12th Aug 2021, 04:50

SOPS

12th Aug 2021, 04:50

And the morons from Sydney continue to surprise ……

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/two-woman-fined-5452-each-for-flying-sydney-to-melbourne-while-infectious/news-story/47f858f9dcc78047b04bbb33318d3e3c

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 04:51

Exactly 43, thats exactly whats happening. The so called 'National Cabinet' needs to come clean, let the people that elected them see the documents they base their decisions on. They are Public Servants, not Dictators. Your 'sweeping' responses are a farce for the rest of the community that have their own intelligence!

Ermm, when I post the documents for all to see the nutters just say its not correct and the government are lieing. So it would be a waste of money for them to post anymore because, most of the community trust they are doing the right thing, and those that don't wont trust them to release the truth anyway. The conspiracy theorist will always see a conspiracy, so you just ignore that part of the community and let them rant, is the usual government methodology.

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 05:11

Most of the community trust what they are doing?

Like I said, your sweeping statements are a farce!

Im not going to engage with you

They are sweeping statements as what happens on state and federal levels is about what the majority of the community want. And the general view from surveys is that the majority support what is being done.

70% of Victorians approve of the way Premier Andrews is handling his job, but 76% say the Victorian Government should compensate small business - Roy Morgan Research (http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8518-victorian-stage-4-restrictions-september-10-2020-202009091315)

A poll taken during Melbourne's long lockdown last year.

?Mortgage stress? near record low in mid-2021 - Roy Morgan Research (http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8743-mortgage-risk-during-covid-19-pandemic-may-2021-202107190449)

Mortgage stress also down this year.

I could dig up more statistical facts, but you would just regard them as sweeping statements.

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 05:19

Its people like yourselves that refuse to know the truth. Whats more disturbing, is that your pushing an Anti-Vaxx / Conspiracy campaign. If you believe in Extinction Rebellion, in which you probably do, we are all going to die anyway so.. Who cares!!

What a weird and wonderful conclusion. All the things that you seem to be standing for you accuse us of?

Dannyboy39

12th Aug 2021, 05:19

They are sweeping statements as what happens on state and federal levels is about what the majority of the community want. And the general view from surveys is that the majority support what is being done.

70% of Victorians approve of the way Premier Andrews is handling his job, but 76% say the Victorian Government should compensate small business - Roy Morgan Research (http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8518-victorian-stage-4-restrictions-september-10-2020-202009091315)

A poll taken during Melbourne's long lockdown last year.

?Mortgage stress? near record low in mid-2021 - Roy Morgan Research (http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8743-mortgage-risk-during-covid-19-pandemic-may-2021-202107190449)

Mortgage stress also down this year.

I could dig up more statistical facts, but you would just regard them as sweeping statements.
I wish people (including politicians) wouldn’t put as much credence on these straw polls… there was a poll in the U.K. recently that said 20-25% of people didn’t want nightclubs to open again or borders to ever open, Covid or not.

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 05:23

I wish people (including politicians) wouldn’t put as much credence on these straw polls… there was a poll in the U.K. recently that said 20-25% of people didn’t want nightclubs to open again or borders to ever open, Covid or not.

There is nothing wrong with that poll, I could imagine many religious and other pious members of society have those feelings. The fact they are only 25% means they should not be catered for. Prohibition happened in the US because of those types getting into power. Using that to discredit poll statistics is wrong, the poll is what it is. The accuracy depends on the credibility of the poll method and sample size.

Polls/Surveys are essential for governance, you cant hold a referendum for every decision. But you do need to ensure most are in the public interest.

SOPS

12th Aug 2021, 05:27

Morons from Sydney?

Your another farce.

You people are filled with nothing but emotion, are rude and its becoming quite disturbing.

Ive noticed their are just a small bunch of people on here, tagging each other along, abusing everyone else and have no idea really about the bigger picture.

Its people like yourselves that refuse to know the truth. Whats more disturbing, is that your pushing an Anti-Vaxx / Conspiracy campaign. If you believe in Extinction Rebellion, in which you probably do, we are all going to die anyway so.. Who cares!!

You are so wrong. How am I pushing an anti vaxx campaign ?? I’m fully vaxed. As for Extinction Rebellion .., spare me!!!

However if people want this lock down madness to end, people have to stop moving around while they are infectious and get vaccinated. What’s so hard about that!

And please Blackout explain the ‘truth’ that we refuse to know.

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 05:32

I was referring to this bunch pushing your an anti vaccs / conspiracy theorist if you dont follow and believe the diatribe coming from their keyboard mouths.

You only get called out if you make a statement that is disagreed with. If you want to debate it, come up with evidence of your argument and show us you are right. Modern society evolves through debate of topics, not just one statement and that's it. My sweeping statements as you see fit to call them come from statistical data, no emotion or creative mental gymnastics going on.

Emotive would be saying "everyone is going broke and suiciding" when the data sets say the complete opposite. Another emotive statement would be The so called 'National Cabinet' needs to come clean, let the people that elected them see the documents they base their decisions on. They are Public Servants, not Dictators. As its based on your thought that some conspiracy happening and no actual fact of collusion or wrongdoing.

If you feel down and out, see a doctor, chat with some friends, don't go saying everyone else is the same.

Paragraph377

12th Aug 2021, 05:40

43 inches also believes that Greta Thunberg, Elon Musk, Richard Branson and Bill Gates are well meaning intellects, almost visionaries, who absolutely know better than any other human being on earth.

I've said it before - politicians/governments are the biggest bunch of lying, deceitful bull**** peddling parasites on this planet. They spin, twist, deflect and manipulate at every given opportunity. How any adult in this day and age could believe a single word, report or statistic that these people produce is absolutely beyond me. And to add to that - apparently they care about our wellbeing? HA HA HA. Nothing they do is for the little person. It is always about self interest, self preservation and self entitlement.
Cloud cuckoo land has blanketed so many it is frightening.

Lead Balloon

12th Aug 2021, 05:41

[T]here is no evidence of extra bankruptcies, suicides etc. ...

House prices are up, inflation is creeping up, unemployment is down. A survey of businesses has found 20% of business is struggling to find enough workforce etc etc.

If you are a Pilot, well these are the hard times the old pilots have talked about. Part of the job, boom bust etc.

Now there were some extra bankruptcy protections added in 2020, but the rate should have been much higher by now with the 6 month period ended for the first round.

[W]hat happens on state and federal levels is about what the majority of the community want. And the general view from surveys is that the majority support what is being done.

Mortgage stress also down this year.Then it must follow that Australia should continue with random international and state border closures and capital city shutdowns, indefinitely, etc etc. They are evidently 'good' for us. Your statistical facts prove it.

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 05:42

Now here is some questions for those so opposite;

One, What is the conspiracy being brought upon us, that is, what does each state government gain by locking us down as opposed to allowing free and open business?

Two, What will you learn from getting to view the minutes from national cabinet meetings (other than government meetings are awkward and boring)?

Three, What would be your solution to the problem at hand, instead of lockdown that is and border closures?

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 05:46

Then it must follow that Australia should continue with random international and state border closures and capital city shutdowns, indefinitely, etc etc. They are evidently 'good' for us. Your statistical facts prove it.

Statistical fact does mean all could not be better, that is twisting the meaning. My reasoning is all is not that bad, and that the lockdown while having some effect are not doom and gloom.

I spose Its trying to move people from glass half empty to glass half full. The glass is still less full than it could be, but it definitely ain't a depression out there, it doesn't even qualify as a recession anymore.

Paragraph377

12th Aug 2021, 05:54

Statistical fact does mean all could not be better, that is twisting the meaning. My reasoning is all is not that bad, and that the lockdown while having some effect are not doom and gloom.

I spose Its trying to move people from glass half empty to glass half full. The glass is still less full than it could be, but it definitely ain't a depression out there, it doesn't even qualify as a recession anymore.

OMG. “Twisting the meaning”. I’ve read everything now. You e lost your argument with that statement mate. And and we aren’t in a depression or recession because wait for it, you say so! Gold! If that’s the case and everything is good, go ask the Reserve Governor as to why they are printing money. Go on. Give him a call. FFS. Stick with your glass half full dream. You obviously need that comfort blanket.

Lead Balloon

12th Aug 2021, 05:54

43Inches

Your questions are framed in way that suggest anyone who disagrees with you is a conspiracy theorist.

First, the efforts of all governments are aimed at saving an estimated 30,000 lives. Unfortunately, they are half-arsed efforts and may end up with the worst of both worlds (subject of course to your statistical facts showing that the economy is going great guns doing fine). They are 'lockdowns' in name only. The borders aren't 'closed'.

Secondly, transparency, even if demonstrating that the minuted meeting was awkward and boring, used to be a 'thing' in a liberal democracy.

Thirdly, do what the words mean. "Lockdown". "Close" the borders. Then we'll see how your statistical facts and the popularity of the state premiers go.

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 05:55

43 inches also believes that Greta Thunberg, Elon Musk, Richard Branson and Bill Gates are well meaning intellects, almost visionaries, who absolutely know better than any other human being on earth.

I don't know any of them personally, only one I dislike is Branson, just a rich moron. Gates at least has donated most of his wealth, as a person don't know the guy. Thunberg, good on her, having the guts to stand up for what you believe in at that age, anyone that wants to attack her cause shes a young girl talking about world issues get over it, I think you just have inferiority complexes or just feel emasculated because she has more balls than most men, have to say I havn't heard or listened to much of what she's said, but she's welcome to any opinion. Musk, not sure on him, rich like Branson, seems more philanthropic, other than that acted like a goose when the Thais didn't want his submarine.

Not sure what my views on them amounts to, but there you go...

43Inches

12th Aug 2021, 06:00

Your questions are framed in way that suggest anyone who disagrees with you is a conspiracy theorist.

Simply because if you read back a large proportion of those against have mentioned at some point there is some conspiracy happening, hence the lockdowns. Most others have provided some form of reasoning to their thinking and broadened the debate.

FFirst, the efforts of all governments are aimed at saving an estimated 30,000 lives. Unfortunately, they are half-arsed efforts and may end up with the worst of both worlds (subject of course to your statistical facts showing that the economy is going great guns). They are 'lockdowns' in name only. The borders aren't 'closed'.

Never said the economy was going great guns, I said it was doing fine.

OMG. “Twisting the meaning”. I’ve read everything now. You e lost your argument with that statement mate. And and we aren’t in a depression or recession because wait for it, you say so! Gold! If that’s the case and everything is good, go ask the Reserve Governor as to why they are printing money. Go on. Give him a call. FFS. Stick with your glass half full dream. You obviously need that comfort blanket.

You sound like you just jumped off the deep end there, are you OK?

Technical Recession is measured as two quarters of negative growth, the economy grew in the March quarter so no, not my opinion. There's also markers based on employment and Australia is well ahead on that. And if an economy is not even in recession its hardly going to be in Depression.

BTW answered earlier the difference between Australia and the US in spending stimulus during the pandemic, we are currently spending less than half per capita than the USA in proping up our economy. Which is why inflation in the US is kicking off up to 5 % now.

Paragraph377

12th Aug 2021, 09:03

Simply because if you read back a large proportion of those against have mentioned at some point there is some conspiracy happening, hence the lockdowns. Most others have provided some form of reasoning to their thinking and broadened the debate.

F

Never said the economy was going great guns, I said it was doing fine.

You sound like you just jumped off the deep end there, are you OK?

Technical Recession is measured as two quarters of negative growth, the economy grew in the March quarter so no, not my opinion. There's also markers based on employment and Australia is well ahead on that. And if an economy is not even in recession its hardly going to be in Depression.

BTW answered earlier the difference between Australia and the US in spending stimulus during the pandemic, we are currently spending less than half per capita than the USA in proping up our economy. Which is why inflation in the US is kicking off up to 5 % now.
Inflation is out of control in the USA, Europe and Australia. That actually isn’t a good thing. You really think all these nations have sustainable debt levels? I don’t think so. Printing money (QE), negative interest rates, they are all just desperate measures to keep the reaper away. Just kicking the can farther down the road. A reckoning there will be. The ponzi scheme will come crashing down, maybe not this month or this year, but it is inevitable. Bubbles galore - bonds, vehicles, housing. The clock is ticking. Anyway, it was fun sparring, each to their own and best wishes and all of that stuff. Cheers

A320 Flyer

12th Aug 2021, 09:37

Inflation is out of control in the USA, Europe and Australia. That actually isn’t a good thing. You really think all these nations have sustainable debt levels? I don’t think so. Printing money (QE), negative interest rates, they are all just desperate measures to keep the reaper away. Just kicking the can farther down the road. A reckoning there will be. The ponzi scheme will come crashing down, maybe not this month or this year, but it is inevitable. Bubbles galore - bonds, vehicles, housing. The clock is ticking. Anyway, it was fun sparring, each to their own and best wishes and all of that stuff. Cheers

Jesus you must get a lot of dinner invitations…..

MickG0105

12th Aug 2021, 10:21

Inflation is out of control in the USA, Europe and Australia.

Out of control?!

The annual inflation rate for the US for the 12 months ending April 2021 was 4.2 percent, for the 12 months ending May it was 5.0 percent, for June 5.4 percent and for July it was similarly 5.4 percent. In other words, after rising steeply earlier in the year as the economy recovered inflation is showing signs of plateauing.

In Europe the annual inflation rate for the 12 months ending April was 2.0 percent, for the 12 months ending June it was 2.2 percent. Neither particularly high nor showing signs of being out of control.

In Australia the annual inflation rate for the 12 months ending June was 3.8 percent, with nearly half of that headline rate coming from the September quarter 2020 bounce back of 1.6 percent (the preceding quarter, June 2020 was -1.9 percent). That 1.6 percent will drop out of the 12 monthly calculation when the next quarter's rates are calculated. With underlying inflation running at around 1.6 percent our September quarter's annual inflation rate will likely be around 3 percent, falling to around 2.8 percent by the end of the year.

SOPS

12th Aug 2021, 11:12

At the risk of Blackout making wild accusations……

Idiots from Sydney continue to crate chaos … this girl should be in jail.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-12/hunter-covid-source/100373210

KRviator

12th Aug 2021, 21:42

Maybe it's about time a business owner who has lost $$ due to the lockdowns takes their own civil action against one of these scrotes? Being declared bankrupt just might be enough to put them off, because it seems the $1000 fine sure ain't cutting it.

I'm also interested to know this birds ethnicity, because so far few-to-none of these overt rule-breakers seem to be particularly 'Australian' if you go by their names or faces...

Lead Balloon

12th Aug 2021, 22:08

And naturally a stack of Canberrans bugged out to the south coast to avoid the 'lockdown'.

Standby for cases in Batemans Bay and surrounds.

So half-arsed.

layman

12th Aug 2021, 22:23

KRviator

Profiling using names & faces mightn’t tell you much

Had an Indian born & educated student with a very English name (something like John Brown)

Also had many Australian born & raised students with names like Sabah, Dimitar, Najeev...

Or are you thinking of the Deputy-Premier’s daughter (& friends) breaking isolation to party in Queanbeyan?

Cafe City

12th Aug 2021, 22:57

And naturally a stack of Canberrans bugged out to the south coast to avoid the 'lockdown'.

Standby for cases in Batemans Bay and surrounds.

So half-arsed.

Including all the pollies who just about trampled each other in the rush to get to the airport to get back to their home States in time!
Pity the bunch of ass-clowns didn’t get stuck there or caught up in isolation.

Paragraph377

12th Aug 2021, 23:13

Out of control?!

The annual inflation rate for the US for the 12 months ending April 2021 was 4.2 percent, for the 12 months ending May it was 5.0 percent, for June 5.4 percent and for July it was similarly 5.4 percent. In other words, after rising steeply earlier in the year as the economy recovered inflation is showing signs of plateauing.

In Europe the annual inflation rate for the 12 months ending April was 2.0 percent, for the 12 months ending June it was 2.2 percent. Neither particularly high nor showing signs of being out of control.

In Australia the annual inflation rate for the 12 months ending June was 3.8 percent, with nearly half of that headline rate coming from the September quarter 2020 bounce back of 1.6 percent (the preceding quarter, June 2020 was -1.9 percent). That 1.6 percent will drop out of the 12 monthly calculation when the next quarter's rates are calculated. With underlying inflation running at around 1.6 percent our September quarter's annual inflation rate will likely be around 3 percent, falling to around 2.8 percent by the end of the year.

Well the OECD doesn’t necessarily agree that there is a guarantee of an inflation slowdown or a plateau likely globally. Highest levels since 2008 is hardly ‘under control’.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/06/02/economy/inflation-oecd/index.html

MickG0105

13th Aug 2021, 00:16

Well the OECD doesn’t necessarily agree that there is a guarantee of an inflation slowdown or a plateau likely globally. Highest levels since 2008 is hardly ‘under control’.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/06/02/economy/inflation-oecd/index.html

The OECD may not agree that there is a "guarantee" of an inflation slowdown or a plateau but that is most assuredly their oft stated expectation. Did you not read the following in the very article that you have provided a link to?

The OECD expects the jump in inflation will fade by the end of the year as supply chains disrupted by the pandemic get back up to speed and production capacity returns to normal.

"The OECD expects the jump in inflation will fade by the end of the year ..."

A fairly clear statement and one that reflects the view outlined previously in the OECD Economic Outlook, Volume 2021 Issue 1 (https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/edfbca02-en/index.html?itemId=/content/publication/edfbca02-en&_ga=2.171085351.68670872.1628812316-1988407505.1628292280)

A new, much-debated risk is the possibility of higher inflation. Commodity prices have been rising fast. Bottlenecks in some sectors and disruptions to trade are creating price tensions. These disruptions should start to fade towards the end of the year, as production capacity normalises and consumption rebalances from goods towards services.

And the expected slowdown in inflationary pressures is baked into the OECD's inflation forecasts for 2022 (https://data.oecd.org/price/inflation-forecast.htm),

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1752x944/screenshot_20210813_101253_chrome_d4b4a748c6e6d382c75a99f2e4 8c0a8a749b0bbd.jpg

Does that look "out of control"?

PoppaJo

13th Aug 2021, 01:12

FUBAR.....yep

Chronic Snoozer

13th Aug 2021, 01:16

The OECD may not agree that there is a "guarantee" of an inflation slowdown or a plateau but that is most assuredly their oft stated expectation. Did you not read the following in the very article that you have provided a link to?

"The OECD expects the jump in inflation will fade by the end of the year ..."

A fairly clear statement and one that reflects the view outlined previously in the OECD Economic Outlook, Volume 2021 Issue 1 (https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/edfbca02-en/index.html?itemId=/content/publication/edfbca02-en&_ga=2.171085351.68670872.1628812316-1988407505.1628292280)

And the expected slowdown in inflationary pressures is baked into the OECD's inflation forecasts for 2022 (https://data.oecd.org/price/inflation-forecast.htm),

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1752x944/screenshot_20210813_101253_chrome_d4b4a748c6e6d382c75a99f2e4 8c0a8a749b0bbd.jpg

Does that look "out of control"?

Just keep printing money then I guess.....now where's my wheelbarrow?

43Inches

13th Aug 2021, 01:42

Interesting that Australia copied the US inflation at a lower rate through to 2021, and then diverged lower at Q2 2021. That's despite the US having vastly different response to Australia. I assume US stayed higher due to the Stimulus cheques kicking in around March 2021, hence the divergence. Also everything post Q2 2021 is a forecast so a best guess at what it will be. It could keep climbing.

Dannyboy39

13th Aug 2021, 03:10

What has inflation got to do with border restrictions?

Anyway, in the news here in the U.K. today is ECB CEO Tom Harrison is talking to the Australian government about the possibility of players families joining the England cricket team for the Ashes which start in December.

In essence, if this doesn’t happen - the Ashes will
not go ahead this year.

Do I expect any compassion or flexibility - when they subject athletes to 28 day quarantine… err no.

SOPS

13th Aug 2021, 03:30

And…even if you are from WA but stuck in NSW, unless you have had one Covid vax and a negative test, you are no longer allowed into Western Australia.

English cricket players families, I doubt it.

neville_nobody

13th Aug 2021, 03:34

Well it looks like this whole border situation has become unhinged.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/mcgowan-considers-requiring-proof-of-vaccination-from-nsw-travellers-20210813-p58ihr.html

WA supercharges border rules under ‘high’ and ‘extreme’ risk categoriesWestern Australia will place its harshest measures yet on travellers from COVID-infected states, including having to prove they have received at least one vaccine dose and have recorded a negative PCR test in the three days before their departure.

The changes come under an overhaul of WA’s COVID-19 state classifications, which include stricter testing and vaccine rules under its ‘high risk’ category and the introduction of an ‘extreme risk’ category that will see travellers having to complete two weeks hotel quarantine.

The changes are the most significant boosts to border controls since the hard border was introduced at the beginning of the pandemic and come as New South Wales announced a record 390 new cases and two more deaths.

The new high-risk category will be triggered when a state records a daily average of 50 new community cases, while the extreme risk category will be declared when an average of 500 new community cases is recorded.

The new rules will only apply to people who have an exemption to enter the state, but with 61 people driving from New South Wales on Thursday and 41 people expected on Friday, Mr McGowan said there was still a significant risk.

Mr McGowan said New South Wales would be upgraded to ‘high risk’ on August 17.

“What is happening in New South Wales continues to be a growing concern for their own citizens and for the entire country, given it is continually seeding the virus into other states,” he said.

“These criteria are very tough, this hasn’t been done before in Australia ... we’ve done it for other overseas countries, we haven’t done it between the states, but I think it’s entirely fair.

“These are tough measures, but they’re necessary to protect the state, and they’re needed, as soon as possible.”

Chief Health Officer Andy Robertson, who provided the health advice informing the new border rules, said the testing and vaccine proof requirements were introduced to reduce infection risks.

“We know that that vaccines do reduce both the infection rate of somebody who’s vaccinated and obviously the spread from that person. This was a good opportunity to actually strengthen that and decrease the risk of importation into WA,” he said.

Under the new high-risk rules, approved travellers will be subject to all medium-risk restrictions as well as proof of a negative COVID-19 PCR test in the 72 hours prior to their departure, proof of at least one dose of the COVID-19 vaccine, and the requirement to use the G2G Now app while in quarantine.

Approved travellers under the new extreme risk category will also be required to complete two weeks of mandatory hotel quarantine at a state facility and also receive an additional COVID-19 test on day five.

For ‘extreme risk’ situations, exemptions will be restricted to only Commonwealth state and specialist functions.

However, for the high-risk category compassionate exemption guidelines will be adjusted to allow stranded West Australians to return home.

What it’s saying is if you are a Western Australian in New South Wales and you’re despairing about coming home, it gives you a pathway to come back provided you are vaccinated,” Mr McGowan said.

He also announced from midnight Friday, the ACT would be designated a ‘medium risk’ jurisdiction, which will restrict travel to WA to exempted travellers only and require them to self-isolate for 14 days.

South Australia will also be downgraded to a low-risk category, which will allow travel without exemption but also requires 14 days self-isolation.

DirectAnywhere

13th Aug 2021, 03:51

Just taken me four days to get a result so not sure how effective that is going to be.

Turnleft080

13th Aug 2021, 04:09

Just taken me four days to get a result so not sure how effective that is going to be.
If you get tested at a airport station, tell them your flight crew or hold an ASIC and they accelerate the process and you
get a result in 6 hours.

DirectAnywhere

13th Aug 2021, 04:13

Turnleft080

13th Aug 2021, 04:32

Sure, that might work for me but what about Joe Public who needs a negative result within the previous 72 hours to enter WA? I think my wait was a bit longer than average but the wheels are coming off in NSW - make no mistake. There is a struggle now to maintain public transport services with hundreds of workers in isolation.
The last 18 months has laid the foundation for more red tape. The states are holding this country to ransom. The rest of the world are now
antigen testing. That could be done here, but no, to busy squabbling, over it's accuracy which is very high.

PoppaJo

13th Aug 2021, 04:50

SOPS

13th Aug 2021, 05:12

Sure, that might work for me but what about Joe Public who needs a negative result within the previous 72 hours to enter WA? I think my wait was a bit longer than average but the wheels are coming off in NSW - make no mistake. There is a struggle now to maintain public transport services with hundreds of workers in isolation.

Gladys did not want to lock down to protect the economy. What she did not seem to realise was the fact if you have a lot of sick people, you don’t have an economy.

compressor stall

13th Aug 2021, 05:46

If you get tested at a airport station, tell them your flight crew or hold an ASIC and they accelerate the process and you get a result in 6 hours.

Even better would be some enlightened airports around the world where it’s a 60 minute PCR turnaround. That’s full PCR, not the lessser antigen.

blubak

13th Aug 2021, 07:21

This really is the start of what is going to be a long road ahead for the newly exiled NSW.

Nobody will want a bar of them for god knows how long.

I’d be happy for all states to firm up the border even with extreme measures to get the remainder of the domestic market moving again. We need to cut them off and get what’s left open and flowing again.
That is a real possibility,the borders into every other state from nsw are going to be as tightly controlled as possible & by doing that it will hopefully enable most of the other states to open up to each other.
Daniel Andrews said today he would have thought it wasnt too hard for airlines to check permits of people flying from nsw to other destinations & i must say i agree with him,isnt it in the interests of the airlines to stop people flying to places they shouldnt be going to & help stop the spread which ultimately will get other borders & states open to each other.

DirectAnywhere

13th Aug 2021, 07:44

Daniel Andrews said today he would have thought it wasnt too hard for airlines to check permits of people flying from nsw to other destinations & i must say i agree with him,isnt it in the interests of the airlines to stop people flying to places they shouldnt be going to & help stop the spread which ultimately will get other borders & states open to each other.

That's true to a point, but the couple that flew in to Melbourne from Sydney the other day did so on Green Zone permits ie. they didn't tell the truth. Airlines and their staff have no capacity or authority to check people's stories. Someone lies on their application, turns up with a green zone or exempt worker permit, how are airlines possibly supposed to check this?

Also, each state has different entry and permit requirements and different software systems, GTG passes, SAPol passes, Q passes, check-in apps, QR codes etc. and the requirements change so frequently that they are virtually impossible to keep up with. Again, there is a strong argument for a nationally consistent approach with national hotspot definitions and permit requirements - but if we'd been able to achieve any national consensus on anything we probably wouldn't need any such systems, but I digress.

It's possibly another layer in the defence to some extent, but don't expect it to be a panacea. Checks would still need to be performed on arrival at whatever the destination may be.

ruprecht

13th Aug 2021, 08:16

That is a real possibility,the borders into every other state from nsw are going to be as tightly controlled as possible & by doing that it will hopefully enable most of the other states to open up to each other.
Daniel Andrews said today he would have thought it wasnt too hard for airlines to check permits of people flying from nsw to other destinations & i must say i agree with him,isnt it in the interests of the airlines to stop people flying to places they shouldnt be going to & help stop the spread which ultimately will get other borders & states open to each other.
The airlines aren’t there to police every state premier’s thought bubble.

turbantime

13th Aug 2021, 08:26

The airlines aren’t there to police every state premier’s thought bubble.
There’s not even a requirement to do an ID check for domestic travel, and they want them to check for correct passes? As someone else pointed out, how does airline staff verify the pass holders haven’t lied?

PoppaJo

13th Aug 2021, 08:40

The airlines aren’t there to police every state premier’s thought bubble.
Actually he was pretty brutal towards the airlines in the presser, what did he say, taxpayers have been bailing out the airlines as such, so time for them to start doing something for us...

Perhaps it would just be easier to scrap Melbourne to Sydney flights at the moment all together. I recall last year only one flight a day between the pair at its worst.

Turnleft080

13th Aug 2021, 08:53

Actually he was pretty brutal towards the airlines in the presser, what did he say, taxpayers have been bailing out the airlines as such, so time for them to start doing something for us...

Perhaps it would just be easier to scrap Melbourne to Sydney flights at the moment all together. I recall last year only one flight a day between the pair at its worst.
Don't be surprised. That's standard from Dan. He doesn't understand business. He has never run a business. For him to talk about airline business is out
of his depth. He is a money counter, bean counter, he only knows politics and how to win elections. Westgate tunnel project will cost
us another 3.3 billion and no finish date.

ruprecht

13th Aug 2021, 10:02

Actually he was pretty brutal towards the airlines in the presser, what did he say, taxpayers have been bailing out the airlines as such, so time for them to start doing something for us...

Sounds like he’s doubling down on a stupid thought bubble and trying to shift the blame.

“I want a hard border but I’m not prepared to police a hard border”.

unobtanium

13th Aug 2021, 10:30

Westgate tunnel project will cost
us another 3.3 billion and no finish date.

The CFMEU will guarantee that and more, why stop the gold plated gravy train for there members? They certainly have the country by its balls. Maybe airline unions could learn a thing or two.

Ladloy

13th Aug 2021, 19:43

The CFMEU will guarantee that and more, why stop the gold plated gravy train for there members? They certainly have the country by its balls. Maybe airline unions could learn a thing or two.
Wait until you learn about gas and coal lobbying!

chookcooker

13th Aug 2021, 22:52

The airlines aren’t there to police every state premier’s thought bubble.
The vast majority of interstate travel this past 18 months for me has involved different police/DHS officers giving different instructions.
I saw a captain told to isolate for 14 days and the FO let go free.
Captain blew up and spoke to a supervisor from DHS who said he was fine to go.
and that’s officials only policing their own state rules.
How a 20 year old at check in is supposed to understand the daily evolving rules for the 8 other state/territories and police them is patently ridiculous.

43Inches

13th Aug 2021, 23:00

How a 20 year old at check in is supposed to understand the daily evolving rules for the 8 other state/territories and police them is patently ridiculous.

They don't interpret the rules at all, the company mandates all passengers have ID checked prior to boarding, the check in officer just goes through the list of pre-boarding items that have to be checked for. Same time they are asking if you are carrying dangerous goods, physically assessing passengers for dangers, such as being intoxicated, aggressive behavior, etc, etc. The airline includes it in the ticket conditions of carriage. Checking a vaccination stub is a no brain activity, they have it or not, not like trying to identify a passenger that could possibly be sneaking a dangerous good on board, be drug affected or be up to no good. If not at check in, do it at boarding.

BTW, rights do not apply to airline travel in regards to this as airlines don't count as common carriers for the purpose of public transport, so they have the right to refuse travel of anyone.

SHVC

13th Aug 2021, 23:17

Emperor of the West is wanting to make mandatory vaccination for NSW to enter his promise lands. If QF cant make it mandatory without being liable for side affects, would McGoose be held liable if I'm walking around peel and drop because I have had a reaction?

StudentInDebt

13th Aug 2021, 23:31

The vast majority of interstate travel this past 18 months for me has involved different police/DHS officers giving different instructions.
I saw a captain told to isolate for 14 days and the FO let go free.
Captain blew up and spoke to a supervisor from DHS who said he was fine to go.
and that’s officials only policing their own state rules.
How a 20 year old at check in is supposed to understand the daily evolving rules for the 8 other state/territories and police them is patently ridiculous.Rather than relying on airlines to interpret the mish-mash of border passes, perhaps the solution to pre-screening boarding passengers lies in the hands of the states themselves. If states want to have effective screening, they need a system similar to the TSA on flights to the USA - prior to entering the boarding area passenger passes are checked by representatives of the state of destination and fly/no-fly decisions are made there.
I’m not advocating for this sort of thing btw and I don’t see it being adopted, but if you make your bed, lie in it.