All borders to reopen.

[De_flieger]

Indeed. Both completely inappropriate IMO…
Well, that's your opinion. If you really want to see inappropriate behaviour, check out - as mentioned by 43Inches - The Herman Cain Award (https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/)for a neverending stream of people mocking and insulting doctors, public health efforts and insulting people who get vaccinated as cowards, weak, sheep and so on, then dying of an illness that could have been largely prevented with vaccination. A lot of them have been vehement defenders of freedom of speech, loudly insisting that anyone who gets offended by what they say are snowflakes and possibly communists, so it's only fair that their own words are remembered as being proven wrong in the most permanent of ways, surely they wouldn't be offended by others exercising that same freedom of speech by remembering their own words?

And why is it called the Herman Cain Award? Because after downplaying the seriousness of covid, insisting it was a media beatup and then proceding to die of covid, his pre-scheduled twitter post went out post-mortem, claiming that covid wasn't as lethal as the media claimed.

[dr dre]

Indeed. Both completely inappropriate IMO…

Then what is an appropriate way to stop people thinking horse dewormer is better for Covid than a vaccine?

All the medical advice, studies, recommendations, awareness campaigns etc haven’t changed the minds of these people. The FDA trying to tell people in a joking manner that horse dewormer is bad is too offensive apparently. Trying to stop misinformation being pushed on Fox or Sky News is “denying freedom of speech” apparently.

So the message doesn’t get through, and it costs society through increased infections, healthcare costs and deaths.

Well, that's your opinion. If you really want to see inappropriate behaviour, check out - as mentioned by 43Inches - The Herman Cain Award (https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/)for a neverending stream of people mocking and insulting doctors, public health efforts and insulting people who get vaccinated as cowards, weak, sheep and so on, then dying of an illness that could have been largely prevented with vaccination. A lot of them have been vehement defenders of freedom of speech, loudly insisting that anyone who gets offended by what they say are snowflakes and possibly communists, so it's only fair that their own words are remembered as being proven wrong in the most permanent of ways, surely they wouldn't be offended by others exercising that same freedom of speech by remembering their own words?

True - the same types who’ve been crying about “snowflakes” and “don’t get so offended” over the last few years are now crying that their feelings are upset when they’re told to stop taking HORSE DEWORMER.

[Torukmacto]

Murdoch has somehow registered sky news under entertainment. So he can say anything and no one can stop him as it’s just entertainment . No journalistic standards apply , no fact checking , nothing .

[Gnadenburg]

How about this for utter hypocrisy by the Qld. Premier.

The story below is an excerpt from the ABC news web site and it appears that again there are different rules for sports people and VIP's. and they are coming from a hot spot in Sydney

"The play in question is the NRL jetting in about 100 league officials, players' wives, girlfriends and children into Brisbane from the COVID-19 hotspot of Sydney. "

The Qld. Govt has sanctioned this little visit.

How can our citizens be told to take things seriously and how important it is to maintain social distancing etc. and that these rules are vital if we are to beat this Pandemic when things like this happen. The Premier even states that she is very concerned about " border hopping " that puts Queenslanders at risk!!! and yet this happens.



It's her hypocrisy that enables many to justify "border hopping". I was up on an unmanned border crossing yesterday and many people crossing over. Some for their work, others to see family. A lot of them Queenslanders who have livelihoods in NSW. It will only get worse. The State borders are porous.

[ExtraShot]

Then what is an appropriate way to stop people thinking horse dewormer is better for Covid than a vaccine?

I don’t know if you necessarily have to convince everyone though? The best you can do is be open, honest, and provide the facts, repeatedly. Get to as many as you can. I mean, some people are going to ingest things they shouldn’t no matter what.

Theres always going to be people you can’t get through to. Especially in the US where people seem to have much more freedom to do what they like.

I’ve discussed ad nauseam with some friends who were anti vax or vax hesitant (surprisingly a couple of them I’d definitely classify as of the left of politics, one even pretty far left) about the efficacy of vaccines, vaccine safety, vaccines as a pathway to normality and an organisations’ rights for mandates… in spite of the evidence some people will believe what they will, I don’t know how you change that.

As long as you can get 80% plus of a total population and even higher for the most vulnerable, and the people who refuse to get it can’t attend high risk environments, how much more is suppose to be done? In the end they’ve taken the risk of not being vaxxed or relying on a substance that won’t work and they’re free to do it.

[cLeArIcE]

No need to worry, our old mate Darwin will hopefully take care of all of this over the next few months.

On a different note, I don't understand this need for compassionate travel for funerals. To see loved one's before they die, of course but for the funeral?
Yeah, It's a nice to be with with family and grieve under normal circumstances but, it's hardly necessary. It's not going to bring them back is it? Especially If they died of Covid.
No better way to honour the dead of a pandemic then to bring a bunch Of people together in a church or building to hug, cry and touch each other whilst paying a small fortunate for the pleasure. :rolleyes:
If only there was another way of sharing that power point presentation full of old photos and sad music. Humans are weird. So emotionally needy.

[Xeptu]

No need to worry, our old mate Darwin will hopefully take care of all of this over the next few months.

On a different note, I don't understand this need for compassionate travel for funerals. To see loved one's before they die, of course but for the funeral?
Yeah, It's a nice to be with with family and grieve under normal circumstances but, it's hardly necessary. It's not going to bring them back is it? Especially If they died of Covid.
No better way to honour the dead of a pandemic then to bring a bunch Of people together in a church or building to hug, cry and touch each other whilst paying a small fortunate for the pleasure. :rolleyes:
If only there was another way of sharing that power point presentation full of old photos and sad music. Humans are weird. So emotionally needy.

So true, if only they would die all at once, then we could cremate them all at the same time, no need for funerals at all then, there is precedent for that you know.

[43Inches]

On a different note, I don't understand this need for compassionate travel for funerals. To see loved one's before they die, of course but for the funeral?
Yeah, It's a nice to be with with family and grieve under normal circumstances but, it's hardly necessary. It's not going to bring them back is it? Especially If they died of Covid.
No better way to honour the dead of a pandemic then to bring a bunch Of people together in a church or building to hug, cry and touch each other whilst paying a small fortunate for the pleasure. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies2/icon_rolleyes.gif
If only there was another way of sharing that power point presentation full of old photos and sad music. Humans are weird. So emotionally needy.

While I share your point of view regarding death many don't. The need for funerals is a complex ideal based on your culture, religion, beliefs, morals, and many other things. It's very hard to understand an individuals feeling for this so it really has to be accommodated for. You could apply the same to all religions because if I don't believe in it, why should other people, so does half the population have to stop being religious.

How we grieve is very much up to the individual, some can write it off and move on, others need finality and closure, which is what a funeral represents. Some cultures the grieving goes on for years beyond the funeral with multiple dates you gather and remember. You just have to be tolerant of others sensitivities and if they are not hurting anyone, why not try to make them feel better about a bad situation.

[Xeptu]

While I share your point of view regarding death many don't. The need for funerals is a complex ideal based on your culture, religion, beliefs, morals, and many other things. It's very hard to understand an individuals feeling for this so it really has to be accommodated for. You could apply the same to all religions because if I don't believe in it, why should other people, so does half the population have to stop being religious.

How we grieve is very much up to the individual, some can write it off and move on, others need finality and closure, which is what a funeral represents. Some cultures the grieving goes on for years beyond the funeral with multiple dates you gather and remember. You just have to be tolerant of others sensitivities and if they are not hurting anyone, why not try to make them feel better about a bad situation.

I do think it was written in the same context as my response, A WARNING!

[Xeptu]

A Nation in Crisis is a Nation vulnerable

Step one. create a mandate everyone will agree with.
Step two, enforce the mandate
Step three remove anyone and anything that does not support the mandate
Step four delegate responsibility for any further mandates to a single entity
Step five create any mandate that entity wants.

[43Inches]

A Nation in Crisis is a Nation vulnerable

The biggest worry is McGowan, any real push for the commonwealth to 'punish' WA for not opening borders can only strengthen his position. With his approval ratings and some good spin he could easily push a move to secede from the commonwealth and align with more lucrative foreign trade. If you want a conspiracy look there. WA is more likely to hold the commonwealth to financial ransom than the opposite. What would the feds do without the massive boost they get from WAs mining trade.

[KRviator]

What would the feds do without the massive boost they get from WAs mining trade.Not have to give WA their "fair share" of the GST revenue, worry about Fleet Base West, or the other defence assets deployed to WA, Ronny could be relocated from Pearce to Sale and they could offload the maintenance for the Trans-Australian Railway from the border back to WestRail.

All at a time the iron ore price looks like heading south in the next few years. Perfect time to do it!

The more important question would be for McGowan: How you gonna run a surplus with iron ore prices back around $60/tonne?

[cLeArIcE]

Look I'm not saying to hell with humanity As you can probably tell I am not a religious person ,:E nor am I particularly emotional kind of person. A Millennial that still embraces the "stiff upper lip" approach to most things in life. ( I don't know if that unusual or not).
But I 100% believe in live and let live. If you are not hurting anyone, you do what you want to do through life. I acknowledge we all deal with grief and death very differently. I couldn't care less if my family throw my body in a dumpster. I'm dead. I don't need it. But I'm aware I'm not normal in that regard.
All I'm asking is that right now, at this moment in time, is this nicety really necessary?

[Xeptu]

The biggest worry is McGowan, any real push for the commonwealth to 'punish' WA for not opening borders can only strengthen his position. With his approval ratings and some good spin he could easily push a move to secede from the commonwealth and align with more lucrative foreign trade. If you want a conspiracy look there. WA is more likely to hold the commonwealth to financial ransom than the opposite. What would the feds do without the massive boost they get from WAs mining trade.

WA doesn't need to do that, all it needs to do is build desal plants all the way up the coast and feed an unlimited water supply into about 200km's inland, then open that up to agriculture, Cities would emerge all along the coast which would make it the biggest population in the biggest state that will dwarf Eastern Australia. To secede would be plain dumb.

The plan is to be the biggest state, with the biggest population, in one country on one continent.

[Xeptu]

All I'm asking is that right now, at this moment in time, is this nicety really necessary?

Yes it is! and it can still be conducted safely in the same way football teams come into the state, no differently.

[Lead Balloon]

The biggest worry is McGowan, any real push for the commonwealth to 'punish' WA for not opening borders can only strengthen his position. With his approval ratings and some good spin he could easily push a move to secede from the commonwealth and align with more lucrative foreign trade. If you want a conspiracy look there. WA is more likely to hold the commonwealth to financial ransom than the opposite. What would the feds do without the massive boost they get from WAs mining trade.Bring it on!

Anyone who thinks that WA always has been an always will be a net contributor to the Commonwealth is a poor student of history. And raising and running a defence force is kinda spendy.

[SHVC]

McClown will be exposed for the inept leader he is, his success was on the back of literally doing nothing. Anyone can close a border keep other Australians out and ride that wave. Now that Victoria appears to be changing their rhetoric as of today they see zero covid a fantasy. no mention of it today but I would think international will be on the cards for Victorians come yrs end. Gladys reiterated 80% and international travel is on and reading an article today, FiJi wants to open with NSW in December. So we will see a few interesting political motions come December. How long will McGoose and Anna stay away try to keep convincing their ppl zero is the only way. Remember just a few hrs ago Queen P back flipped after only 24hrs on the no entry to QLD after the backlash about the NRL family’s. I bet a few QLDnrs would like to visit FiJi also!

[Xeptu]

I don't understand why WA takes so much heat over this issue, SA a liberal Gov state is firm with WA, as is TAS and the NT. Why is it all about WA and QLD

[43Inches]

Anyone who thinks that WA always has been an always will be a net contributor to the Commonwealth is a poor student of history.

They have also pushed for Secession on numerous occasions since federation, one time actually having a referendum which overwhelmingly favored such. Recently public opinion has waned on the topic, but who knows, at all other times Perth was no more than a country town. Now it's a self sufficient city with a wheatbelt and thriving economy and very good ties to a certain large Asian country that would ensure no one played with the goods.

And raising and running a defence force is kinda spendy.

The Australian federal goons are the only mugs playing that game. New Zealand just keeps a token force to stop piracy in their waters and that's about it. WA could just sign up to trade vs protection deals with China and wouldn't need more than a few patrol boats, they don't have the US hang ups the rest of Australia panders to. Again McGowan has shown he leans towards Asia as partners.

I bet a few QLDnrs would like to visit FiJi also!

I'd like to visit Fiji, but even if it was open it's riddled with covid right now, you are almost 100% guaranteed to get it if you go there. You actually would be safer holidaying in Western Sydney with no mask.

[SHVC]

I don't understand why WA takes so much heat over this issue, SA a liberal Gov state is firm with WA, as is TAS and the NT. Why is it all about WA and QLD

What!!! No come back, are you seeing the light now. it’s purely how they go about the border issues. WA and QLD premiers are by far the worst they literally don’t care what they say or who they hurt. Marshmallow and the others know how to speak to ppl like adults. Imagine saying QLD hospitals are for QLDners come on that is just one. Other premiers don’t ban their residents whilst allowing any revenue making event or person to enter freely.

[KRviator]

I don't understand why WA takes so much heat over this issue, SA a liberal Gov state is firm with WA, as is TAS and the NT. Why is it all about WA and QLDBecause your muppet of a Premier says "You're from <X> You will not enter, I don't care if you've got a dying relative, or you're a West Australian who went to <X> to bury your mother, you aren't coming back". He also says "I don't care where your National FIFO crew live, if they're from <X> you'll have to get your employees from WA, I don't care how much of a specialist they are, or how critical they are to your business, get your employees from WA, because the other's aren't coming back."

SA, Tasmania and the NT all allow compassionate travel. They all allow residents to return to SA/NT/The Apple Isle and they all allow essential FIFO crew to enter, subject to relevant restrictions.

McGowan won't.

And now, with the brouhaha about the WA hospital crisis, the reason for McGowan's antics is becoming clear. It isn't about keeping Covid out because Covid is a mean and nasty virus. It's because your health system is at crisis point without Covid. And when not if Covid gets in to WA, he's going to want to hope your health system is in a much better place than it is now!

As for Anna Stay-Away, well, there's only so many babies you can kill by refusing their mother treatment before people crack the ****s. There's only so many nurses who work for NSW Health but live in Qld that you can refuse entry to before people get the ****s. There's only so many NRL families you can allow entry to the state to while rejecting genuine residents trying to return home before people get the ****s, and all of the above, people see right through. OF course, it doesn't help when your CHO openly admits you can buy your way into the Sunshine State, while at the same time torpedoing the AZ vaccine rollout...

I haven't seen the SA/Tasmanian/NT Government carry on like either WA or Qld have...

[43Inches]

I haven't seen the SA/Tasmanian/NT Government carry on like either WA or Qld have...

That is the crux of it, WA and QLD have sprouted some clangers and are treating this like some sort of competition for sporting events, but at the same time, restricting movement of compassionate cases.

Tasmania seems to have a fairly balanced approach with measured closures to vulnerable areas but still accessable. SA has just followed the others and kept quiet, as well as sent Delta into Melbourne and Sydney, so we can't fully forgive them. That's probably why they have stayed quiet.

[Xeptu]

Oh I see, well it may come as a complete surprise but SA doesn't even allow residents to return from VIC or NSW at the moment,. I really liked the nickname Marshmellow at least he hasn't been left out.
I do agree about QLD CMO torpedoing the AZ vaccine, that was just plain dumb, we don't hear about heart muscle swelling anymore from Pfizer, probably for the same reason.
The labor premiers do take a bit of crap from their liberal counterparts and the PM, it's customary for labor to reply with a headbutt, rather than a handshake, afterall it was the PM that banned them :)

P.S are you saying if we do the compassionate thing you'll ease up on the labor premiers, or will it still be open season.

[Xeptu]

I remember decades ago there was a comedy sketch that use to run on the ABC titled "how green is my cactus" all puppets with similar names ripping off our politicians and leaders, I did enjoy that show, anyone remember it.

[SOPS]

I remember decades ago there was a comedy sketch that use to run on the ABC titled "how green is my cactus" all puppets with similar names ripping off our politicians and leaders, I did enjoy that show, anyone remember it.


it still is on radio… I love the show.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Green_was_my_Cactus

[43Inches]

This might be what you are looking for....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WkwReHGpnQ

Rubbery Figures.

That was the TV puppet show, 'How Green was my Cactus' is the radio show and is still going.

[Xeptu]

Yep that's it both really funny shows. How badly has Craig Kelly screwed up, anyone taking bets on a single seat including his own.

[Lead Balloon]

I would have thought it manifestly self-evident. If the Commonwealth had a power beyond those listed in s 51 to ensure that the states complied, they would exercise that power and you would see compliance. That's not happening. Draw your own conclusions.Oh dear. Good try.

Even us nobodies can google "national implied power" or "nationhood power" or "vertical fiscal imbalance".

[machtuk]

Because your muppet of a Premier says "You're from <X> You will not enter, I don't care if you've got a dying relative, or you're a West Australian who went to <X> to bury your mother, you aren't coming back". He also says "I don't care where your National FIFO crew live, if they're from <X> you'll have to get your employees from WA, I don't care how much of a specialist they are, or how critical they are to your business, get your employees from WA, because the other's aren't coming back."

SA, Tasmania and the NT all allow compassionate travel. They all allow residents to return to SA/NT/The Apple Isle and they all allow essential FIFO crew to enter, subject to relevant restrictions.

McGowan won't.

And now, with the brouhaha about the WA hospital crisis, the reason for McGowan's antics is becoming clear. It isn't about keeping Covid out because Covid is a mean and nasty virus. It's because your health system is at crisis point without Covid. And when not if Covid gets in to WA, he's going to want to hope your health system is in a much better place than it is now!

As for Anna Stay-Away, well, there's only so many babies you can kill by refusing their mother treatment before people crack the ****s. There's only so many nurses who work for NSW Health but live in Qld that you can refuse entry to before people get the ****s. There's only so many NRL families you can allow entry to the state to while rejecting genuine residents trying to return home before people get the ****s, and all of the above, people see right through. OF course, it doesn't help when your CHO openly admits you can buy your way into the Sunshine State, while at the same time torpedoing the AZ vaccine rollout...

I haven't seen the SA/Tasmanian/NT Government carry on like either WA or Qld have...


well said KR -)
McClown is on par with the lunatic Andrews, both out to destroy people's hopes and dreams one way or another!

[Chronic Snoozer]

And now, with the brouhaha about the WA hospital crisis, the reason for McGowan's antics is becoming clear. It isn't about keeping Covid out because Covid is a mean and nasty virus. It's because your health system is at crisis point without Covid. And when not if Covid gets in to WA, he's going to want to hope your health system is in a much better place than it is now

Well now that you've caught on, do things he says and does make a bit more sense? He'd be an idiot to allow an excessive number of cases to develop if he knows the hospital system can't cope. Which is kind of how this whole pandemic thing kicked off.....

[Ladloy]

well said KR -)
McClown is on par with the lunatic Andrews, both out to destroy people's hopes and dreams one way or another!
how was sky news tonight?

[KRviator]

Well now that you've caught on, do things he says and does make a bit more sense? He'd be an idiot to allow an excessive number of cases to develop if he knows the hospital system can't cope. Which is kind of how this whole pandemic thing kicked off.....No, it does not. His CHO testified under oath that the WA health system is capable of handling 5,000 Covid cases, with, IIRC, 500 per day increase - and that was a year ago!

Dr Robertson estimates that for 100 new cases per day (or 1,000 active cases), 130 hospital beds and 25 ICU beds would be required, and 14 deaths expected; while for 500 new cases per day (or 5,000 active cases), 650 hospital beds and 124 ICU beds would be required, and 70 deaths expected. These numbers would remain within the capacity of the Western Australian health system to manage, but would substantially increase the burden upon the health system. Source (https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/publications/tabledpapers.nsf/displaypaper/4013612a35098f05cf02a186482585de000df967/$file/3612.pdf)

Fixing a health system in crisis is not a quick or easy task, and to use that as an excuse to deny people their constitutionally-guaranteed right to travel without being penalised simply because they live in a particular state is a very slippery slope - particularly when your own CHO testified under oath that your current state health system could manage with upto 500 new cases per day!

Because if that is going to be the excuse he uses to keep the border closed after the nation hits the 80% target, where does it end for him? What will the trigger be to reopen the WA border - given the WA health system is on a knifes edge without any Covid cases?

[SHVC]

Where does it end for QLD. They’re a league of their own. The dribble coming out of that pelican CMO of theirs and Queen P. They are making up $hit to scare their ppl to keep it closed.

WA may have come to their senses today they are making it mandatory for health care workers to be vaccinated by end of month for the “inevitable” arrival for delta.

[Tucknroll]

I do hope everyone realizes the irony in accusing Palaszczuk and McGowan of despotism while the Liberal Premier is the one who has imposed the harshest, longest restrictions on civil liberties on her citizens in living memory. I imagine many of those criticizing QLD and WA are sitting in lockdown hammering on their keyboards with kids screaming in the background counting down the minutes to their one hour of physical exercise permitted per day.

If you’re going to accuse politicians of ineptitude, perhaps look at the place where you aren’t allowed more than 5km from your house because of mismanagement. If you’re accusing politicians of acting against the will of the people, maybe avoid those who have won their respective state elections by record breaking landslides.

[Xeptu]

I believe 80% double dosed is sensible as I'm sure all the leaders do regardless of what they say publicly. We know the worst thing you can do is allow people to count down the days to freedom day. Not only is it crushing it's dangerous, it's most likely the reason VIC has lost control of it, someone's spreading it.

All I really want to see is that those in the food bowl and particularly the wheat belt right across across the country into western NSW, are vaccinated. Most are not, they are miles from anywhere and when they come to town you better be ready with that vaccine, or get it to them. Harvest from NOV, if it gets into those communities, it's all over, there will be more to worry about than open borders and freedoms.

[SHVC]

I believe 80% double dosed is sensible as I'm sure all the leaders do regardless of what they say publicly. We know the worst thing you can do is allow people to count down the days to freedom day. Not only is it crushing it's dangerous, it's most likely the reason VIC has lost control of it, someone's spreading it.

All I really want to see is that those in the food bowl and particularly the wheat belt right across across the country into western NSW, are vaccinated. Most are not, they are miles from anywhere and when they come to town you better be ready with that vaccine, or get it to them. Harvest from NOV, if it gets into those communities, it's all over, there will be more to worry about than open borders and freedoms.

you didn’t watch question time today? WA and QLD have those same issues, except they are not allowing the skilled labor in to harvest so those crops because they don’t have it. The whole country is in a mess at the moment and will be for a loooong time.


Tuck
I do hope everyone realizes the irony in accusing Palaszczuk and McGowan of despotism while the Liberal Premier is the one who has imposed the harshest, longest restrictions on civil liberties on her citizens in living memory. I imagine many of those criticizing QLD and WA are sitting in lockdown hammering on their keyboards with kids screaming in the background counting down the minutes to their one hour of physical exercise permitted per day.

Are you sure about that? Actually a labor premier that has the
“world “ record for locking up their citizens. By all accounts Sydney stay at home is not all that strict compared to what others have done.

[Xeptu]

you didn’t watch question time today? WA and QLD have those same issues, except they are not allowing the skilled labor in to harvest so those crops because they don’t have it. The whole country is in a mess at the moment and will be for a loooong time.

Yeah that's the wheat belt. We don't use imported labour, it's Farmers working with Farmers. $8B over 6 weeks. What you're talking about are the fruit growers, they have always used imported workers, Australians (city people) won't do it, too busy going to the beach. Market Gardens are closer to the cities and operate all year round, that's your tomatoes, potatoes, anything that's pulled out of the ground.

[StallsDeep]

Gladys sounds like she’s accepting an Oscar every time she holds a press conference. If she thanks enough people it just might seem like she’s doing a good job. Noticed she’s been saying “died with covid” lately too, seems like she’s prepping for deniability come the inevitable disaster that will be October and November.

Surely they have all realised by now that the current rate of vaccinations won’t continue to 80%?

[WingNut60]

I believe 80% double dosed is sensible as I'm sure all the leaders do regardless of what they say publicly. We know the worst thing you can do is allow people to count down the days to freedom day. Not only is it crushing it's dangerous, it's most likely the reason VIC has lost control of it, someone's spreading it.

All I really want to see is that those in the food bowl and particularly the wheat belt right across across the country into western NSW, are vaccinated. Most are not, they are miles from anywhere and when they come to town you better be ready with that vaccine, or get it to them. Harvest from NOV, if it gets into those communities, it's all over, there will be more to worry about than open borders and freedoms.
We can organise a booze bus to out into the country areas but the concept of a large mobile vaccination clinic seems to be beyond common comprehension.

[Xeptu]

I really worry about it, they really need to be vaccinated now, there are a few that happen to be within a couple of hundred k's from a major centres vax'd but any further out than that are not. For WA about Narrogin to Norseman, then from SA Streaky right across to Griffith NSW, big area. I fear the Nation will be in deep crisis by then. They just don't seem to understand the magnitude of those logistics and the ones that do are too busy with the Cities problems. It's going to be a clusterf#%k.

[SHVC]

Gladys sounds like she’s accepting an Oscar every time she holds a press conference. If she thanks enough people it just might seem like she’s doing a good job. Noticed she’s been saying “died with covid” lately

Thisjusbthe way it should have always been reported. Someone dying Tuesday afternoon then announcing the cause at 11am Wednesday morning. A lot of deaths that shouldn’t had been have been “caused” by covid.

[sherburn2LA]

Life in the penal colonies

Life in the penal colonies

[rattman]

Yeah that's the wheat belt. We don't use imported labour, it's Farmers working with Farmers. $8B over 6 weeks. What you're talking about are the fruit growers, they have always used imported workers, Australians (city people) won't do it, too busy going to the beach. Market Gardens are closer to the cities and operate all year round, that's your tomatoes, potatoes, anything that's pulled out of the ground.

Farmers got used to scamming backpackers for WHV extensions now suddenly its wont someone think of the farmers.

[43Inches]

Farmers got used to scamming backpackers for WHV extensions now suddenly its wont someone think of the farmers.

Not all farmers, just some, like other parts of the community there are some that take advantage of everything cheap thinking it's best. I know a few other fruit growers that pay top dollar during picking season to ensure fruit is harvested quickly and in good condition, and they employ repeat pickers that come every season as they are reliable, some from the city. It's not easy work, but rewarding financially for those that do the job well and work for the right employer. The other option is to not care about quality and just employ cheap as possible, which is usually a sign of poor business acumen.

Harvest is no different, you want the right people operating millions of dollars of machinery in combination with millions of dollars of crops. Harvest at the wrong time, wrong moisture etc etc etc, you could lose tons of yield. Hit rocks, posts etc in afield with a combine, not only the damage bill, but the loss of work/harvest while the vehicle is repaired.

[Xeptu]

No, it does not. His CHO testified under oath that the WA health system is capable of handling 5,000 Covid cases, with, IIRC, 500 per day increase - and that was a year ago!

It should be noted that this was before or around the time our ICU techs were in VIC roughly 60% of them between WA and SA. These will not be infected a second time and that hasn't got anything to do with the health system or government in either state. Both states are aware they do know that.

[Xeptu]

Harvest is no different, you want the right people operating millions of dollars of machinery in combination with millions of dollars of crops. Harvest at the wrong time, wrong moisture etc etc etc, you could lose tons of yield. Hit rocks, posts etc in afield with a combine, not only the damage bill, but the loss of work/harvest while the vehicle is repaired.

The Wheat Belt, Wheat, Sheep, Wool, Feed Stock (hay) we would never use backpackers, the farmer (owner) is always the header operator and the neighbouring farmers operate the chase vehicles and silo runs. It's flat out almost non stop busiest time of the year.

I have a satellite photo somewhere of the wheat belt in harvest at night somewhere, it looks like the busiest place on earth

[Foxxster]

Thisjusbthe way it should have always been reported. Someone dying Tuesday afternoon then announcing the cause at 11am Wednesday morning. A lot of deaths that shouldn’t had been have been “caused” by covid.

The chief health officer was asked about this around a week ago. She answered that in many cases it was impossible to tell whether WuHu flu killed them or other conditions. So they die WITH WuHu flu not because of it. So the daily death list, which is getting really boring and should be dropped is people who die WITH WuHu flu not necessarily FROM it.

Although that doesn’t get mentioned as it is bad politics when the idea is to scare people into getting vaccinated.

and before people jump in, I am all for vaccinations and have had both mine. But that is what is playing out to get the masses done.

[43Inches]

The Wheat Belt, Wheat, Sheep, Wool, Feed Stock (hay) we would never use backpackers, the farmer (owner) is always the header operator and the neighbouring farmers operate the chase vehicles and silo runs. It's flat out almost non stop busiest time of the year.

Wool/feed can be forgiving but as you know Wheat/grain don't wait for anyone, delay the harvest, lose yield. There is still a lot of advertising (right now) for general hands to help out, marshaling etc. Imagine if your header operator gets tested positive for covid a week before harvest, not good, while it is an isolated job in itself would they even be fit to drive especially if older. I know some that would want the ventilator fitted to the cab so they could still harvest.

The chief health officer was asked about this around a week ago. She answered that in many cases it was impossible to tell whether WuHu flu killed them or other conditions.

The UK mortality stats had the the difference as "due" to covid being 75% of cases "with" covid so it's not a huge difference, just take 25% off death rates and you will be close. The "with" covid stat still has to be covid as a causal factor, not the overall cause of death, which could be multiple things, again understanding how deaths are recorded needs to be understood. If the patient died and it had nothing to do with covid at all, but they had covid in their system, covid will not be on the factors list. For instance, "patient decapitated by sword, massive trauma to neck area", even if they had severe covid, that would not be listed as a covid related death.

If the patient could have survived but covid possibly affected their recovery then it gets listed as "with" covid. IF they reattached the patients head and they were recovering, but then Covid killed them via a lung infection then it would become "due" to covid.

[Xeptu]

Wool/feed can be forgiving but as you know Wheat/grain don't wait for anyone, delay the harvest, lose yield. There is still a lot of advertising (right now) for general hands to help out, marshaling etc. Imagine if your header operator gets tested positive for covid a week before harvest, not good, while it is an isolated job in itself would they even be fit to drive especially if older. I know some that would want the ventilator fitted to the cab so they could still harvest.

There will be plenty of jobs, these are employed by Grain Corp, they operate the weight bridge, silos, this is when the virus is most likely to get in and spread. It would be catastrophic.

[minigundiplomat]

Wool/feed can be forgiving but as you know Wheat/grain don't wait for anyone, delay the harvest, lose yield. There is still a lot of advertising (right now) for general hands to help out, marshaling etc. Imagine if your header operator gets tested positive for covid a week before harvest, not good, while it is an isolated job in itself would they even be fit to drive especially if older. I know some that would want the ventilator fitted to the cab so they could still harvest.



The UK mortality stats had the the difference as "due" to covid being 75% of cases "with" covid so it's not a huge difference, just take 25% off death rates and you will be close. The "with" covid stat still has to be covid as a causal factor, not the overall cause of death, which could be multiple things, again understanding how deaths are recorded needs to be understood. If the patient died and it had nothing to do with covid at all, but they had covid in their system, covid will not be on the factors list. For instance, "patient decapitated by sword, massive trauma to neck area", even if they had severe covid, that would not be listed as a covid related death.

If the patient could have survived but covid possibly affected their recovery then it gets listed as "with" covid. IF they reattached the patients head and they were recovering, but then Covid killed them via a lung infection then it would become "due" to covid.

Complete BS - UK fatality stats included anyone who died within 28 days of testing positive, irrespective of cause or nature of their death.

[43Inches]

Complete BS - UK fatality stats included anyone who died within 28 days of testing positive, irrespective of cause or nature of their death.

You do know how stupid that sounds right, and the numbers would be 10 times higher if that were the case, as with the US. The numbers would be 1000s per day right now if someone that had just tested positive with covid in the last 28 days was also listed as a covid death related. Car crashes, cancer patients, heart attack victims would all be classified with covid, just due to how many have covid in those countries, its not like Australia where we have tiny case numbers. The mortality statistics for the UK has exact process of what is included or not, hence why the 75% statement I made earlier.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales/latest3.Deaths due to COVID-19 registered in July 2021The doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death, and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in our user guide (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/methodologies/userguidetomortalitystatisticsjuly2017#cause-of-death-coding).

Since March 2020 (when the first deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) were registered in England and Wales), where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate it was the underlying cause of death in most cases (88.9% in England, 87.3% in Wales). In July 2021, COVID-19 was the underlying cause of death for 83.5% of deaths that mentioned COVID-19 on the death certificate in England and 80.5% in Wales. For more information on our definition of COVID-19 deaths, see Section 10: Measuring the data (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales/july2021#measuring-the-data).


We use the term "due to COVID-19" when referring only to deaths with an underlying cause of death of COVID-19. When taking into account all of the deaths that had COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, whether as an underlying cause or not, we use the term "involving COVID-19".

Our definition of COVID-19 (regardless of whether it was the underlying cause or mentioned elsewhere on the death certificate) includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain (U07.2). For example, a doctor may have clinically diagnosed COVID-19 based on symptoms, but this diagnosis may not have been confirmed with a test. Of the 125,684 deaths due to COVID-19, 4,015 (3.2%) were classified as "suspected" COVID-19. Including all 141,519 deaths involving COVID-19, "suspected" COVID-19 was recorded on 3.2% (4,594 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19 in England and Wales. For more information on the ICD-10 definition of COVID-19, see Section 8 of the methodology article (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/methodologies/coronavirusandmortalityinenglandandwalesmethodology#internat ional-classification-of-diseases-codes-for-covid-19).

[Xeptu]

The chief health officer was asked about this around a week ago. She answered that in many cases it was impossible to tell whether WuHu flu killed them or other conditions. So they die WITH WuHu flu not because of it. So the daily death list, which is getting really boring and should be dropped is people who die WITH WuHu flu not necessarily FROM it.

Although that doesn’t get mentioned as it is bad politics when the idea is to scare people into getting vaccinated.

and before people jump in, I am all for vaccinations and have had both mine. But that is what is playing out to get the masses done.

To be honest when I look at how we are travelling, I'm only interested in those that were infected, known to be suffering symptoms and died under the age of 70

[minigundiplomat]

You do know how stupid that sounds right, and the numbers would be 10 times higher if that were the case, as with the US. The numbers would be 1000s per day right now if someone that had just tested positive with covid in the last 28 days was also listed as a covid death related. Car crashes, cancer patients, heart attack victims would all be classified with covid, just due to how many have covid in those countries, its not like Australia where we have tiny case numbers. The mortality statistics for the UK has exact process of what is included or not, hence why the 75% statement I made earlier.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales/latest


https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN29J2TH

[43Inches]

I'll just re-post the same thing as you are quoting Reuters over the actual people who compile the data,

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales/latest)3.Deaths due to COVID-19 registered in July 2021
The doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death, and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in our user guide (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/methodologies/userguidetomortalitystatisticsjuly2017#cause-of-death-coding).

Since March 2020 (when the first deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) were registered in England and Wales), where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate it was the underlying cause of death in most cases (88.9% in England, 87.3% in Wales). In July 2021, COVID-19 was the underlying cause of death for 83.5% of deaths that mentioned COVID-19 on the death certificate in England and 80.5% in Wales. For more information on our definition of COVID-19 deaths, see Section 10: Measuring the data (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales/july2021#measuring-the-data).
Quote:
We use the term "due to COVID-19" when referring only to deaths with an underlying cause of death of COVID-19. When taking into account all of the deaths that had COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, whether as an underlying cause or not, we use the term "involving COVID-19".

Our definition of COVID-19 (regardless of whether it was the underlying cause or mentioned elsewhere on the death certificate) includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain (U07.2). For example, a doctor may have clinically diagnosed COVID-19 based on symptoms, but this diagnosis may not have been confirmed with a test. Of the 125,684 deaths due to COVID-19, 4,015 (3.2%) were classified as "suspected" COVID-19. Including all 141,519 deaths involving COVID-19, "suspected" COVID-19 was recorded on 3.2% (4,594 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19 in England and Wales. For more information on the ICD-10 definition of COVID-19, see Section 8 of the methodology article (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/methodologies/coronavirusandmortalityinenglandandwalesmethodology#internat ional-classification-of-diseases-codes-for-covid-19).

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-data-idUSKBN29J2TH

Did you actually read what that article says?

It's a fact check on that headline and the outcome at the bottom says it finds the headline as false.... so I'm not sure why you posted something that says what you are asserting is false anyway.

[minigundiplomat]

You can requote whatever you want if it tells the story you want, Champ. Up until the back end of 2020 the UK was classing any death within 28 days of a positive positive test as COVID. I can also link the Public Health England paper if you wish.

You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.

Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.

People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.

[43Inches]

You can requote whatever you want if it tells the story you want, Champ. Up until the back end of 2020 the UK was classing any death within 28 days of a positive Covid test as positive. I can also link the Public Health England paper if you wish.

You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.

Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.

People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.

You seem to forget you just posted a link to a story that fact checked your own line and said it was false, you obviously are not even reading your own research well enough let alone be able to judge any other opinions.

You better stop thinking before that bean of yours implodes.

The 28 and 60 day cutoffs are made to exclude outliers to get better ideas when estimating numbers.

A COVID-19 death is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID-19 disease (e.g. trauma).

That is the definition most are working with and the cut-off (28 days) was implemented to avoid over estimations.

[Cirressna]

Try the government website (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/)

[StudentInDebt]

It seems there a difference between how NHS England records deaths with a COVID positive result and how the ONS records them. Since the NHS figures only include deaths in hospital, they are generally lower than the ONS figures. Lots of fun reading on the PHE methodology for those with time on their hands available at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/phe-data-series-on-deaths-in-people-with-covid-19-technical-summary

[machtuk]

You can requote whatever you want if it tells the story you want, Champ. Up until the back end of 2020 the UK was classing any death within 28 days of a positive positive test as COVID. I can also link the Public Health England paper if you wish.

You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.

Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.

People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.


You are wasting yr time dealing with '43' he's a prolific rapid fire poster on a mission spending a huge chunk of his life in fear and trying to support it, makes for amusing reading if not at times boring reading though -)

[43Inches]

England uses two methods of counting Covid deaths, PHE uses the 28 day list, to rapidly estimate numbers and ONS which is measured from actual data such as death certificates and such. PHE you must have tested positive to be included in the estimate regardless of certificate notice. At the early stages there was no time frame on PHE data, which recently caused it to blow out in numbers so they restricted it to 28 days and 60 days dependent on other factors. When compared to ONS data the PHE data is within 25%, as I stated earlier. So the documented death data and mortality statistics are definitely similar, anything beyond a few weeks old is going to be corrected by ONS data. The gov data has adjusted the statistics to show the 28 day data, but if you click on that the ONS data is readily available to reference.

Prior to the 28 day limit the real death rate was somewhere between ONS and PHE, after the limit the actual numbers are said to be slightly higher than both.

You are wasting yr time dealing with '43' he's a prolific rapid fire poster on a mission spending a huge chunk of his life in fear and trying to support it, makes for amusing reading if not at times boring reading though -)

Happy you bothered to mention me, and wasted some of your time, BTW I have no fear of covid, fully vaxxed and happily wandering around even in areas full of it. I'm just trying to reason with the concrete girders that have formed between some ears who continue to quote rubbish and use information that is obviously wrong.

But keep posting you really do amuse me, and my small mind.

PS, one thing that really does confuse me, can you actually debate anything, or are you not smart enough to actually contribute and not just stir the pot on occasion when you get angry and want to launch a sarcastic remark in a passive aggressive manner by pretending to talk to another poster? Its sort of a mark of a person with low self confidence and worth that you cant back your own agenda with your own information.

[minigundiplomat]

Sorry 43,

meant to respond earlier but I have a life and I didn’t want to spend it on PPrune anymore than I wanted to live in fear.

Have a good weekend - spread some fear or whatever makes you feel worthwhile.

[43Inches]

Not sure why I would spend all day on a forum, when I can pop in and out throughout the day and peruse what floof has been posted and fire off a quick reply.

In anycase I have done nothing but point out where the statistics come from. If you find the UK Office for National Statistics (ONS) and what they do scary and live in fear of them, I'm truly sorry. I suppose some people are afraid of numbers and letters for some reason, it's quite obvious some can not interpret them clearly. :E

[StallsDeep]

I must be a sucker for punishment because I find myself tuning in everyday to hear what Gladys has to say. Someone behind the scenes has managed to convince her that cases will peak in the next fortnight, and it didn’t in even pass the gross error test in her head. The NSW curve is just beginning, and even with 70% of the adult population vaccinated that still leaves 1.6 million people in greater Sydney of which the virus can rip through. The strain on the already overwhelmed hospitals will be immense.

I was thinking today perhaps an increase to the tax rate for non essential workers still able to work (mostly those working from home) to subsidise a properly distributed and revamped job keeper might be fairer on those of us unable to continue operating. Something like a 60% flat tax ought to do it.

[Foxxster]

I must be a sucker for punishment because I find myself tuning in everyday to hear what Gladys has to say. Someone behind the scenes has managed to convince her that cases will peak in the next fortnight, and it didn’t in even pass the gross error test in her head. The NSW curve is just beginning, and even with 70% of the adult population vaccinated that still leaves 1.6 million people in greater Sydney of which the virus can rip through. The strain on the already overwhelmed hospitals will be immense.

I was thinking today perhaps an increase to the tax rate for non essential workers still able to work (mostly those working from home) to subsidise a properly distributed and revamped job keeper might be fairer on those of us unable to continue operating. Something like a 60% flat tax ought to do it.


perhaps a new tax on all those recently sold Sydney properties. And of course future sales. Investment property or not.

[exmexican]

Sounds like a while since you were on a farm! Plenty of backpackers operating big harvesting machinery in all areas. Your description of neighbours working in teams sounds idyllic, but not widely adopted in modern times. With many farms using multiple harvesters or contract harvest operators, the owner is more likely to be found coordinating the process, marketing grain, and filling in where needed. Some smaller farms don’t even own a harvester. Too much $$$ siting in the shed for 10-11 months of the year. That said, your description reminds me of my late teens on our small family farm. Big brother in the harvester, the only vehicle with aircon, Dad moving bins and support equipment, and me hammering down dusty track getting as many 8 tonne truckloads in to the local silo as I could!

[rattman]

Sounds like a while since you were on a farm! Plenty of backpackers operating big harvesting machinery in all areas. Your description of neighbours working in teams sounds idyllic, but not widely adopted in modern times. With many farms using multiple harvesters or contract harvest operators, the owner is more likely to be found coordinating the process, marketing grain, and filling in where needed. Some smaller farms don’t even own a harvester. Too much $$$ siting in the shed for 10-11 months of the year. That said, your description reminds me of my late teens on our small family farm. Big brother in the harvester, the only vehicle with aircon, Dad moving bins and support equipment, and me hammering down dusty track getting as many 8 tonne truckloads in to the local silo as I could!

Its more the unskilled parts, like any sort of picking where they are used to imported labor that they have been able to exploit / scam for years. Now with the backpacker shortage farms / industry that have rep for fair employment are taking all the small pool of australians willing to work these jobs. I am doing banana's this year and got a good offer from a mango company thats desperate to get some guaranteed staff, but damn I hate mango's. The big harvesting contractors are considered essential workers and having minimal issues getting through borders

[Ladloy]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-04/tasmania-covid-roadmap-border-reopening-vaccination-rate/100431784

Tasmania aiming to open at 90%. Where is the criticism from the feds and the murdoch press?

Bizarre isn't it?

[chookcooker]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-04/tasmania-covid-roadmap-border-reopening-vaccination-rate/100431784

Tasmania aiming to open at 90%. Where is the criticism from the feds and the murdoch press?

Bizarre isn't it?
“Acting Premier Jeremy Rockliff, who is also the Health Minister, stressed that Tasmania would continue to follow the national plan, "but we want to ensure that every single person has the opportunity to be vaccinated in Tasmania".”

from the article YOU posted

[JustinHeywood]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-04/tasmania-covid-roadmap-border-reopening-vaccination-rate/100431784

Tasmania aiming to open at 90%. Where is the criticism from the feds and the murdoch press?

Bizarre isn't it?

Yeah, better stick to the ABC then mate, it’ll tell you what you want to hear.

[dr dre]

Yeah, better stick to the ABC then mate, it’ll tell you what you want to hear.

Quotes from the Tasmanian Health Minister and Acting Premier on when they see the reopening happening?

[Ladloy]

“Acting Premier Jeremy Rockliff, who is also the Health Minister, stressed that Tasmania would continue to follow the national plan, "but we want to ensure that every single person has the opportunity to be vaccinated in Tasmania".”

from the article YOU posted

"I don't think I can give a precise answer to that [the figure for reopening borders], but the higher the better, and the closer to 90 per cent that's achievable, the better," he said.

That comment would boil the blood of 90% of the PPRUNE echo chamber if made by a health minister in WA, Vic or QLD.


Yeah, better stick to the ABC then mate, it’ll tell you what you want to hear.


The article has a direct quote from the health minister in Tasmania. Not an analysis or an opinion piece, it is actually a direct report

[chookcooker]

"I don't think I can give a precise answer to that [the figure for reopening borders], but the higher the better, and the closer to 90 per cent that's achievable, the better," he said.

That comment would boil the blood of 90% of the PPRUNE echo chamber
Not if, unlike you, they can read.

[dr dre]

"I don't think I can give a precise answer to that [the figure for reopening borders], but the higher the better, and the closer to 90 per cent that's achievable, the better," he said.

That comment would boil the blood of 90% of the PPRUNE echo chamber if made by a health minister in WA, Vic or QLD.


The NT announced at 80% they’ll only consider moving the quarantined out of Howard Springs into home detention, hardly any extra freedom there, and the Chief Minister has said the wants more than 80% vaxxed to protect the indigenous in the Territory. SA said they’d look at “nuanced” arrangements post 80% and may still lockout individual LGAs from entry. The ACT wants “well over 80%” vaccinated. WA said once they get to 80% it’d be a gap of about 6 weeks to have a final chance for any stragglers to get a shot. Queensland may have the least clear messaging with suggestion they want kids, then maybe not, who knows. Then Tasmania came out and said they would prefer closer to 90% vaxxed. Victoria is too concerned with their own problems to really think about reopening to the rest.

So in reality it isn’t going to be a free for all the day the average vax rate hits 80%, every other State or Territory has indicated their reopening will be more staggered, more gradual than the “let it rip” idea some seem to think it will be.

[Xeptu]

I think even Gladys is wishful thinking now, NSW ICU will be at capacity in a week and that's double the capacity of any other state. How does she figure the peak will be in two weeks when the numbers are still rising.

[SOPS]

I think even Gladys is wishful thinking now, NSW ICU will be at capacity in a week and that's double the capacity of any other state. How does she figure the peak will be in two weeks when the numbers are still rising.

The Gold Standard Girl, took some really bad advice from whoever told her that it would all be getting better in 2 weeks. Probably the same person that told her not to lock down after the first case.

[galdian]

The Gold Standard Girl, took some really bad advice from whoever told her that it would all be getting better in 2 weeks. Probably the same person that told her not to lock down after the first case.

Well when Victoria last year was in lockdown and NSW wasn't she WAS Gold Standard.

Amazes me the number of people who can't have an overview but, more importantly, dredge up the past just to have a whinge and a pissing contest; the future can only be directed by what is happening now and the actions that will be taken tomorrow and ongoing.
I would have thought the future was more important, to too many apparently not.

Much as I dislike Andrews credit where due - he's now admitting Covid Zero is impossible, what actions will follow time will tell but at least the basis has been reset to something realistic.
Whilst up north the incumbent Premier - with a 10+ seat majority and no election for 3+ years - is playing politics about borders which may lead some to delay having vaccinations, when Delta does hit be interesting to see how she deflects criticism about those who get Delta, who were sicker than they should have been, who ended up in hospital or ICU or died - when it need not have happened, or at least been lessened, with vaccination.

[43Inches]

I disagree that there was ever any gold standard, there was luck last year that it didn't spread or start in the high population density suburbs. Melbourne got it in the west among the working population that spread it around town and got into the aged care facilities before they had procedures and standards to deal with covid.

This year the NSW government was pretty much negligent in the way it handled Delta. One month before NSW got its first case they were laughing at Victorias lockdown and calling Sutton the Vic CHO incompetent for suggesting Delta was far more transmissable and that they just had no idea. Sutton had suggested that only casual contact was required rather than the full 20 minute exposure that had been the case with the earlier strain. It was quite clear that NSW was playing politics in avoiding a lockdown and throwing mud at the Andrews gov at the same time. When they got the first case, they stubbornly held out to avoid immediate embarrassment that they had to lockdown also, and well, we all know how that went. And what else did they have to warn them, maybe the data from the rest of the world about Delta as well....

So when a lot of us criticise Gladys and co it's for good reason, we may well have been open and operating close to normal had NSW followed Vics advice rather than playing politics. BTW prior to NSW going ballistic with numbers Scomo was also agitating against lockdows, suddenly after NSW lost the plot he about faced and makes a speech that lockdowns are necessary until vaccinated.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Who needs the borders open anyhow when we have a “State Daddy” to worship on Fathers Day?


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1307/b93b9423_9188_4ffe_a5af_2d3c4a24855b_5a29770cd650ac86c7e0605 dfb8dcf1620a4b123.jpeg

[601]

So when a lot of us criticise Gladys and co it's for good reason, we may well have been open and operating close to normal had NSW followed Vics advice rather than playing politics.

So what advice has Dan followed this time??

[43Inches]

So what advice has Dan followed this time??

Nothing he could do, locked it down, but the fall out from Sydney sent too many back into Victoria and spread it there. Delta was only controllable with a few cases in the community, the Sydney removalists spread it to several locations in Victoria plus some others moving interstate and it was all over. Now its way ahead of what contact tracing can do and lockdown is just plugging holes in the failing dam until the vaccination rate gets up.

[Xeptu]

Well lets have a go at an overview. NSW doesn't have any say in opening any borders in any practical sense. The NSW plan is to end lockdowns and remove restrictions at 70%, how does that reduce infection numbers (rate) and what do you do with those that require critical care (ventilated icu) when that is already at capacity. (about a week or two away) How is that not a crisis in anyone's book and what do you think the rest of the nation will be thinking at 80% vaccinated in NSW only (first) at this stage.

[unexplained blip]

Lets just see what is actually happening once we reach 70%/80%, and especially what the ongoing vaccination pace is as we cross the thresholds. All premiers and their friends are busy putting words out there to try and stimulate as much demand as possible. Nothing they are saying now is a particularly a 'core promise', they may as well be threatening Year 8s into doing their homework. Their collective underlying fear will be a vaccination rate stalling somewhere near 80% cover, as that will leave us sinking back into the mud. In order to avoid that, and the political poison of a COVID peat fire that never ends, they will say whatever they think they need to right now.

I don''t think each individual states is really following that much of a different path in reality. Put any state leadership in any other states' shoes and you would get roughly the same response. There are bugger all true degrees of freedom, unless prepared to go balls-out loony to one end of the spectrum or the other.

[Xeptu]

It's a balancing act between the need to take urgent action and get vaccinated with whatever you can get right now and creating a freedom day for which people will take quite literally.

[krismiler]

In countries with a high vaccination rate, once you get to about 80% coverage it starts to taper off quite noticeably. You never hit 100% due to people who can't or won't take the vaccine.

The first 80% are those that are keen and able for the jab, they get done as soon as they can.The remainder are less interested, live in remote locations or are medically unable.

Tasmania would be waiting a very long time if they want 90%.

[PoppaJo]

Fantastic work Anna these pics are now making global headlines of our state luncheon that went on today down at Tweed. Not to mention the live Sunrise interview during that week with people jumping the border live on TV in the backdrop.
Embarrassing. I’m actually embarrassed to be an Queenslander. Send me back to Singapore.

In fact I’ll even head back to the land of Gladys and Dan where we won’t live like Hermits come December unlike us up north.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/daa657e4_448e_4d26_9007_f49695b2cb31_288a5c32d21a63018db89b5 690e6bf601515a97f.jpeg

[Transition Layer]

"I don't think I can give a precise answer to that [the figure for reopening borders], but the higher the better, and the closer to 90 per cent that's achievable, the better," he said.

That comment would boil the blood of 90% of the PPRUNE echo chamber if made by a health minister in WA, Vic or QLD.





The article has a direct quote from the health minister in Tasmania. Not an analysis or an opinion piece, it is actually a direct report

The difference between the leaders of SA/NT/TAS and the likes of WA/QLD, is that the leaders of the smaller states don’t feel the need to impart their infinite wisdom and arrogance on others. McGowan and Palachook will jump at any chance to get in front of the media and explain how the rest of the country is doing it wrong. I don’t hear that from the others, they just seem more concerned with their own jurisdictions. Or perhaps it just doesn’t get the same sort of air time.

Emperor MaoGowan and Queen P have made themselves targets and turned the rest of the country against them.

[SOPS]

The difference between the leaders of SA/NT/TAS and the likes of WA/QLD, is that the leaders of the smaller states don’t feel the need to impart their infinite wisdom and arrogance on others. McGowan and Palachook will jump at any chance to get in front of the media and explain how the rest of the country is doing it wrong. I don’t hear that from the others, they just seem more concerned with their own jurisdictions. Or perhaps it just doesn’t get the same sort of air time.

Emperor MaoGowan and Queen P have made themselves targets and turned the rest of the country against them.

I can’t speak the Premier of QLD, but I don’t think Mark McGowan gives a flying f$$k about what the rest of Australia thinks about him.

[Xeptu]

If I were a Premier, my order of priority in what people think would be, The greater majority of the people within the state I serve. The Cabinet, The State Party, Australians Generally, The leaders of other states, opposition leaders of other states. That then would put Scomo and Gladys at the very bottom of my list.

[chookcooker]

If I were a Premier, my order of priority in what people think would be, The greater majority of the people within the state I serve. The Cabinet, The State Party, Australians Generally, The leaders of other states, opposition leaders of other states. That then would put Scomo and Gladys at the very bottom of my list.
the first in your list are a fickle bunch. Sway with the breeze.

[galdian]

I can’t speak the Premier of QLD, but I don’t think Mark McGowan gives a flying f$$k about what the rest of Australia thinks about him.

Well with only 2 opposition members in parliament barring any internal revolts McGowan can - as can Queen P - act as Hitlers (although maybe McGowan as the somewhat successful Hitler, Queen P as the comic relief Mussolini).

What WOULD be nice is that, after their terms of unbridled power, they could point to what that absolute power has allowed THEM, as THE PREMIERS, to achieve in improving - on a state level - the plight of the aboriginals which everyone talks about....but any real and tangible change/improvements all too hard, apparently. Now THAT could be leadership.

The chances of that happening? :* They are politicians after all.

[Xeptu]

the first in your list are a fickle bunch. Sway with the breeze.

Fickle or not, they are who I serve, a good leader does not sway, that doesn't mean cannot re-evaluate, adapt, change direction, but must be supported and always in the best interests of the greater majority.

[galdian]

Fickle or not, they are who I serve, a good leader does not sway, that doesn't mean cannot re-evaluate, adapt, change direction, but must be supported and always in the best interests of the greater majority.

Bull****.

With his absolute majority he is the potential of Hitler incarnate.
He doesn't have to be a leader - just a manipulator.

I wonder who his Goebbels is?

And the peasants must applaud. :D

[Xeptu]

Bull****.

With his absolute majority he is the potential of Hitler incarnate.
He doesn't have to be a leader - just a manipulator.

I wonder who his Goebbels is?

And the peasants must applaud. :D

At least you can be grateful to live in a country where you can have that opinion as twisted as it is.

[SOPS]

Bull****.

With his absolute majority he is the potential of Hitler incarnate.
He doesn't have to be a leader - just a manipulator.

I wonder who his Goebbels is?

And the peasants must applaud. :D

Well it has finally happened.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[galdian]

Well it has finally happened.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Well learnt something - Godwin's Law, interesting article.

Sad the opinionated fail to read the "potential" in my comments.

Would one disagree that with such absolute majorities McGowan and Queen P COULDN't be Hitlers?
"Nah we'll avoid that part, hard to bull**** around that..." doesn't suit our narrative.

Just thought I'd try and breakup the incessant musing and wisdoms from one poster in particular that just goes on...and on...and on... and...

What do they say - go fishing, catch a whale...! :ok:
Cheers

[601]

Godwin's Law,
When do we start to talk about this for the 20%.
Darwin Awards (https://darwinawards.com/)

[WingNut60]

Well learnt something - Godwin's Law, interesting article.

Sad the opinionated fail to read the "potential" in my comments.

Would one disagree that with such absolute majorities McGowan and Queen P COULDN't be Hitlers?
"Nah we'll avoid that part, hard to bull**** around that..." doesn't suit our narrative.

Just thought I'd try and breakup the incessant musing and wisdoms from one poster in particular that just goes on...and on...and on... and...

What do they say - go fishing, catch a whale...! :ok:
Cheers
Those who think that McGowan enjoys the majority that he has by way of some kind of uber mind manipulation and propaganda must be oblivious to the state of the opposition in WA.
It's all there to see. No secrets about it.

If they keep on the same track that they're on now they'll be lucky to have ANY seats in the next parliament.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Those who think that McGowan enjoys the majority that he has by way of some kind of uber mind manipulation and propaganda must be oblivious to the state of the opposition in WA.
It's all there to see. No secrets about it.


Yes it is. All there to see. https://www.watoday.com.au/politics/western-australia/wa-opposition-raises-concerns-about-half-million-dollar-bureaucrat-paid-more-than-his-boss-20210903-p58oof.html

[SHVC]

QLD are OK with ppl hugging an sharing a meal on a plastic border over the weekend, I would of thought all those disobedient QLDnrs be sent to quarantine for touching infected NSW ppl. Australia is sinking to a new low each day with how we treat each other.

[43Inches]

Just a historical point, the NSDAP (Nazi party) with Hitler as leader received 36% of total votes with a voter turn out of around 80% in the 1932 German Presidential elections. The German system did not elect outright leadership but all parties governed in coalition. Paul von Hindenburg won the Pesidential rights with 53% of the vote. Due to stability issues over the course of 1932/33 Hindenburg handed the position of Chancellor to Hitler and the NSDAP quickly moved to assume complete power and Hitler became a Dictator.

There were two Parliamentary elections that year, July and November, the NSDAP received 37% on 84% turn out in July and then 33% on 80% turnout in November.

McGowan won an election with 60% of the primary vote on 85% turnout, so it's not really a comparison to what the NSDAP did in 1932/33. Also McGowan has not sought to remove democratic process. Is he acting appropriately as the leader of WA? that's up to WA citizens to decide, they voted for him. Anyone outside WA screaming at McGowan, you might as well be screaming at Xi Jinping to change Chinese border policy.

** I just re-edited this original instead of continuing the thread on Nazi history....

[Xeptu]

Just a historical point, the NSDAP (Nazi party) with Hitler as leader received 36% of total votes with a voter turn out of around 80% in the 1932 German parliament elections. The German system did not elect outright leadership but all parties governed in coalition. Paul von Hindenburg won the Pesidential rights with 53% of the vote. Due to stability issues over the course of 1932/33 Hindenburg handed the Presidency to Hitler and the NSDAP quickly moved to assume complete power and Hitler became a Dictator.

McGowan won an election with 60% of the primary vote on 85% turnout, so it's not really a comparison to what the NSDAP did in 1932/33. Also McGowan has not sought to remove democratic process. Is he acting appropriately as the leader of WA? that's up to WA citizens to decide, they voted for him. Anyone outside WA screaming at McGowan, you might as well be screaming at Xi Jinping to change Chinese border policy.

Actually Hindenberg died and Hitler decided not to appoint a new president, instead took the role of both President and Chancellor and became Fuhrer.

[43Inches]

Sorry, yeah I used the term president, when I meant Chancellor, Hitler was in effective power from that point. He gained ultimate power when Hindenburg died and basically dissolved the dual system giving Hitler and the Nazis absolute rule with no checks. Prior to his death Hindenburg was basically just approving whatever the Nazis ask for anyway as he had pretty much no choice.

We could go on, but it has very little to do with democratically elected "State Daddy's" closing borders.

[MickG0105]

Just a historical point, the NSDAP (Nazi party) with Hitler as leader received 36% of total votes with a voter turn out of around 80% in the 1932 German parliament elections.
37.36 percent with an 84.06 percent turnout. Source (http://www.gonschior.de/weimar/Deutschland/RT6.html).

[WingNut60]

Yes it is. All there to see. https://www.watoday.com.au/politics/western-australia/wa-opposition-raises-concerns-about-half-million-dollar-bureaucrat-paid-more-than-his-boss-20210903-p58oof.html
No. I was talking more about stuff like this from this morning's West Australian newspaper.

The West releases 700 pages of secret Clan texts (https://thewest.com.au/politics/liberal/the-west-releases-700-pages-of-secret-whatsapp-text-messages-sent-between-the-clan-liberal-powerbrokers-ng-b881979764z)

Read thousands of text messages between Clan members revealing shocking details and name-calling – including labelling a senior woman a ‘toxic cow’ – as calls grow for Liberal powerbrokers to resign. (https://thewest.com.au/politics/liberal/the-west-releases-700-pages-of-secret-whatsapp-text-messages-sent-between-the-clan-liberal-powerbrokers-ng-b881979764z)

[Clare Prop]

Compare McGowan with HItler? Nobody is being gassed, no countries are being invaded and he won the last election in a landslide. This comparison shows a lot of ignorance. The key to his success is that he has been entirely consistant throughout. He's not perfect by any means, but he is not Hitler. He is a popular leader and doing a good job with Covid. When people start comparing others to Hitler they lose all their credibility.

The reason McGowan is so widely supported here is because we have a covid free lifestyle, while Gladys in Wonderland tells us we have to live with her mistakes (we've already had to live with the consequences of her Ruby Princess disaster). We don't have to live with her appalling, deadly mistakes. We want to keep the virus at bay until the vaccination rates are high enough to safely open the borders. NO matter what party you may support, he does represent the majority view here, that we won't be dictated to by someone like Gladys. Remember it is on her watch that allegedly infected drug dealers from Sydney have been taking the virus to aboriginal communities if you really must bring that card up.

We actually don't care what other states think we should do, others may scoff, but it is exactly this kind of sneering at the West from locked down states with destroyed economies which shows that we are a very different bunch of Australians. So McGowan doesn't want covid deaths of West Australians on his conscience like Dan and Gladys have? Why is that a bad thing?

Maybe all the sour grapes are because we are hosting the Grand Final in our Covid free state? Or just jealous that we can go about our daily lives without restrictions or masks?

[De_flieger]

No. I was talking more about stuff like this from this morning's West Australian newspaper.
Behind a paywall.:( Can't read.

[De_flieger]

Well learnt something - Godwin's Law, interesting article.

Sad the opinionated fail to read the "potential" in my comments.

Would one disagree that with such absolute majorities McGowan and Queen P COULDN't be Hitlers?
"Nah we'll avoid that part, hard to bull**** around that..." doesn't suit our narrative.


Yes, "one" would disagree. It's a ludicrous comparison. In a year or two if enough people feel they've done a bad job or the other mob would do better, they'll be out on their ears. Happens fairly regularly. McGowan won for a bunch of reasons, not least his Covid response which was, whether you like it or not, consistent and has been effective. WA is effectively living an unaffected lifestyle with the exception of interstate/overseas travel. Most people I talk to are fairly happy about things. Want to go to the beach, a bar with live music and 500 other people, or a Grand Final? You can do that. And the Liberals flip-flopped around, put the work experience kid up as their leader and can now hold a party meeting on the back of a moped. Maybe in a couple of years they'll make some sort of recovery.

[SOPS]

Compare McGowan with HItler? Nobody is being gassed, no countries are being invaded and he won the last election in a landslide. This comparison shows a lot of ignorance. The key to his success is that he has been entirely consistant throughout. He's not perfect by any means, but he is not Hitler. He is a popular leader and doing a good job with Covid. When people start comparing others to Hitler they lose all their credibility.

The reason McGowan is so widely supported here is because we have a covid free lifestyle, while Gladys in Wonderland tells us we have to live with her mistakes (we've already had to live with the consequences of her Ruby Princess disaster). We don't have to live with her appalling, deadly mistakes. We want to keep the virus at bay until the vaccination rates are high enough to safely open the borders. NO matter what party you may support, he does represent the majority view here, that we won't be dictated to by someone like Gladys. Remember it is on her watch that allegedly infected drug dealers from Sydney have been taking the virus to aboriginal communities if you really must bring that card up.

We actually don't care what other states think we should do, others may scoff, but it is exactly this kind of sneering at the West from locked down states with destroyed economies which shows that we are a very different bunch of Australians. So McGowan doesn't want covid deaths of West Australians on his conscience like Dan and Gladys have? Why is that a bad thing?

Maybe all the sour grapes are because we are hosting the Grand Final in our Covid free state? Or just jealous that we can go about our daily lives without restrictions or masks?


Where is the like button when you need it?

[KRviator]

Maybe all the sour grapes are because we are hosting the Grand Final in our Covid free state? Or just jealous that we can go about our daily lives without restrictions or masks?No mate. Sour Grapes because what WA has achieved has been through good luck, nothing more, and certainly not good management, and not pulling their weight, all the while thumbing their nose at other states and telling them "This is how it should be done!". I dunno about you, but most every Aussie I've met takes a fairly dim view of people not pulling their weight and letting others carry the can...

Sure, if you want to bring in less than your percentage of returning Australians, you're more than welcome to. But NSW has consistently brought in two, two-and-a-bit times it's fair share since the border bollocks began. The same goes for airfreight...You don't see queues of FedEx or DHL planes heading in to Perth, do you? And of course, each of those crews needs to be transported to HQ, managed while in HQ and transported back to the airport, with the risk that entails.

Australia as a whole, has been happy to let NSW handle the lions share of the returning traveler & airfreight task, yet having the gall to penalise their citizens when it gets out of HQ, tut-tutting Gladys and her team for their perceived failings, because, you know, Tasmania has been Covid free for a year - but has taken in sweet FA international arrivals of any description for the vast majority of that timeframe...

For example, since April 2020-June 2021 (last month for which BTRE figures were available), this is the incoming passenger load:

Adelaide: 19,969
Brisbane: 112,276
Hobart: 1,314 - Only started taking international arrivals April/May & June 21, was 0 for the 12 months before that.
Melbourne: 81,570 - Took 0 in during Aug/Sep/Oct 2020 when they had their outbreak
Perth: 48,243
Sydney: 245, 951 - nearly 50% of all international arrivals, and almost as much as every other city combined


But you keep kicking back with the AFL grand final and the door closed to keep the boogey man out, all the while with a hospital system unable to cope with baseload cases without having to cancel elective surgeries. I'm sure your State Daddy has got it under control.

[galdian]

I used the "Hitler" remark regards the absolute control both McGowan and Queen P possess, hopefully they would look to actually achieve something tangible and with long term vision.
That same absolute control could also be used negatively, don't expect it to be but lets wait and see.

The deeper aspects of Herr Hitlers activities never even crossed my mind, I am surprised it crossed the minds of others.

It comes down to whether you believe Delta can be eliminated, I don't believe it can be, yes for now WA is in an envious position but I expect Delta will move through all of Australia - just the nature of the beast.
The challenge will be when Delta lets loose in WA and the degree to which the State Government has prepared.

As for the GF circumstances dictate it cannot be held in Vic, hopefully will be a great game at a great stadium in front of a capacity crowd. Enjoy! :ok:

Cheers.

[Torukmacto]

Compare McGowan with HItler? Nobody is being gassed, no countries are being invaded and he won the last election in a landslide. This comparison shows a lot of ignorance. The key to his success is that he has been entirely consistant throughout. He's not perfect by any means, but he is not Hitler. He is a popular leader and doing a good job with Covid. When people start comparing others to Hitler they lose all their credibility.

The reason McGowan is so widely supported here is because we have a covid free lifestyle, while Gladys in Wonderland tells us we have to live with her mistakes (we've already had to live with the consequences of her Ruby Princess disaster). We don't have to live with her appalling, deadly mistakes. We want to keep the virus at bay until the vaccination rates are high enough to safely open the borders. NO matter what party you may support, he does represent the majority view here, that we won't be dictated to by someone like Gladys. Remember it is on her watch that allegedly infected drug dealers from Sydney have been taking the virus to aboriginal communities if you really must bring that card up.

We actually don't care what other states think we should do, others may scoff, but it is exactly this kind of sneering at the West from locked down states with destroyed economies which shows that we are a very different bunch of Australians. So McGowan doesn't want covid deaths of West Australians on his conscience like Dan and Gladys have? Why is that a bad thing?

Maybe all the sour grapes are because we are hosting the Grand Final in our Covid free state? Or just jealous that we can go about our daily lives without restrictions or masks?

Won in landslide as he kept covid out , lost in landslide when state gets caught out when delta cases explode and WA unprepared and health systems fail ? It’s only a matter of time .

[Clare Prop]

Who knows what next election will bring, but he is the leader we need right now. Plus we have almost no opposition.

Show me a state or territory that doesn't have a health system teetering on the brink of being overwhelmed? All the more reason not to have to accept Gladys and Clive's infected hordes to come here right now.

Not pulling our weight? We've had more international arrivals in hotel quarantine per capita than NSW. We have sent medical staff over East to help. We have helped the contact tracers. We been able, due to being covid free, to keep on digging up rocks to keep the Australian economy afloat. We have had to manage infected ship crews coming to collect those rocks. We haven't allowed infected drug dealers to travel from the cities to Aboriginal communities. We have a thriving tourism sector, the main problem here being staff shortages to deal with demand.

Comparisons with Hitler show total ignorance of history and to many are very offensive. No genocide is happening here. We haven;t had a Covid death for about 18 months. It is two Eastern states that are presiding over the deaths of minorities. Not WA.

We watch the situations unfold over East in horror and disbelief. Most of us have loved ones over there and it is very worrying. Nobody I know is gloating. The NSW situation is a result of the premier's ego, not good management.

[ruprecht]

For a people that don’t care what people think about them, Western Australians spend a lot of time talking about what people think about them. :rolleyes:

[Potsie Weber]

Won in landslide as he kept covid out , lost in landslide when state gets caught out when delta cases explode and WA unprepared and health systems fail ? It’s only a matter of time .

I think he won in a landslide more because there lacked any opposition. Harvey quit leadership in Nov 2020 leaving poor Zac to fight the March election. He conceded defeat even before Election Day. The libs policies were a shambles and their costings laughable. Even die hard liberal voters were dismayed.

The libs never would have won, but they may have been able to retain a few more seats to help keep labor in check. Labor is now unassailable for probably the next 2 elections and McGowan beyond reproach. I don’t think we are talking Nazi Germany here, but McGowan and Labor and Sheriff Dawson certainly don’t need to worry too much about any opposition scrutiny. No better example than the utterly incompetent Roger Cook, he’s not going anywhere despite putting the COVID free health system on its knees.

[Clare Prop]

For a people that don’t care what people think about them, Western Australians spend a lot of time talking about what people think about them. :rolleyes:
So it's OK to come onto Pprune and slag off the sandgropers and then roll your eyes when we exercise a right to reply?
Last time I looked this forum was for all Australians. How about start your own exclusive Eastern States forum if you don't want any comments from West Australians?

[SHVC]

Righto we get WA ppl love Lord McGowen, I don’t know why he has not done anything to better WA really, delta is closer than you think maybe AFL grand final will be the seeding event. Anna stay away is quietly $hitting herself I would bet. Father’s Day yesterday who knows how many infectious NSW ppl that gave hugs and those naughty NRL players and to top it off as the CMO said today the biggest hole are truckies. Tick tok, enjoy Xmas lockdown NSW and VIC will have a beer for you all in the pub.

[De_flieger]

I used the "Hitler" remark regards the absolute control both McGowan and Queen P possess, hopefully they would look to actually achieve something tangible and with long term vision.
That same absolute control could also be used negatively, don't expect it to be but lets wait and see.

The deeper aspects of Herr Hitlers activities never even crossed my mind, I am surprised it crossed the minds of others.

You honestly thought that people's primary association with Hitler was the proportion of votes he got, and the lack of opposition in German domestic politics in the early 1930s? And not the Holocaust and Second World War? Doesn't sound particularly believable to me....:rolleyes:

[Clare Prop]

Delta has been in Fremantle harbour for weeks, doesn't mean we have to let it into the community.
Not all credit goes to the politicians, it also goes to the citizens, most of whom are doing the right thing to keep us all safe; and the medical professionals and quarantine staff. We don't have massive protests...because there is nothing to protest about or maybe we are busy getting on with our normal, unrestricted daily lives.

[Clare Prop]

You honestly thought that people's primary association with Hitler was the proportion of votes he got, and the lack of opposition in German domestic politics in the early 1930s? And not the Holocaust and Second World War? Doesn't sound particularly believable to me....:rolleyes:
I worry about the level of education in this country. That anyone at all can cherry pick Hitler and the Nazi regime and try to apply it to todays Australian politicians defies belief.
Those who do not learn the lessons of history etc etc

[WingNut60]

Righto we get WA ppl love Lord McGowen, I don’t know why he has not done anything to better WA really, delta is closer than you think maybe AFL grand final will be the seeding event. Anna stay away is quietly $hitting herself I would bet. Father’s Day yesterday who knows how many infectious NSW ppl that gave hugs and those naughty NRL players and to top it off as the CMO said today the biggest hole are truckies. Tick tok, enjoy Xmas lockdown NSW and VIC will have a beer for you all in the pub.
We know that it's only a matter of time; inevitable.

It's just that we'd rather not welcome it with open arms as Beryl seems to want to do.

[C441]

Show me a state or territory that doesn't have a health system teetering on the brink of being overwhelmed? All the more reason not to have to accept Gladys and Clive's infected hordes to come here right now.
As is the case here in Queensland, some are confusing allowing free travel between states after 70 and/or 80% have been fully vaccinated, with allowing free travel now. At the moment nationally we have about 30% fully vaccinated and 50% partially; a reasonable way to go to reaching the desired numbers.

Apart from maybe a few posters on this forum and elsewhere, no-one is suggesting W.A. open it's borders to everyone now, but once a consistent vaccination coverage of that magnitude has been reached then let's start to relax the borders and manage the virus so we can become a productive, cohesive nation again, not one that seeks an 'advantage' for the sake of (largely) political gain alone.

[chookcooker]

Fuhrer now stating he wants 90% AND then two months afterwards before opening borders.

[43Inches]

I think he won in a landslide more because there lacked any opposition. Harvey quit leadership in Nov 2020 leaving poor Zac to fight the March election. He conceded defeat even before Election Day. The libs policies were a shambles and their costings laughable. Even die hard liberal voters were dismayed.

This is one downside to mandatory voting. If voting was optional a low voter turn out could remove any mandate as it shows voters saw no options they liked. In Australian politics the turn out is always high, because you are forced to vote, so with singular options it looks like you have a mandate of numbers. It's very hard to know whether people agree with his policies or just voted as he was the lessor of the evils. Opinion polls can be manipulated by just polling suburbs you know will agree with your views, so even those can be misleading. Maybe we need another option on the voting cards marked "all options are imbeciles", although I think Mr/Mrs Imbecile will probably get voted in.

[Xeptu]

For example, since April 2020-June 2021 (last month for which BTRE figures were available), this is the incoming passenger load:

Adelaide: 19,969
Brisbane: 112,276
Hobart: 1,314 - Only started taking international arrivals April/May & June 21, was 0 for the 12 months before that.
Melbourne: 81,570 - Took 0 in during Aug/Sep/Oct 2020 when they had their outbreak
Perth: 48,243
Sydney: 245, 951 - nearly 50% of all international arrivals, and almost as much as every other city combined

Well NSW didn't have too, we are only supposed to be returning Australian Citizens, still about 40,000 to go, maybe NSW should focus on them instead. I note she did say "wouldn't that be wonderful" if we can do that by Christmas. But then that can be viewed as failure recovery action.

[Icarus2001]

In Australian politics the turn out is always high, because you are forced to vote, Sorry, cannot agree. We are forced to turn up and have our name signed off as voted. What we write or do with the ballot paper is up to us. Plenty of opportunity to register lack of approval. Ultimately we know we have to vote for someone or else the system will fall apart.

[galdian]

You honestly thought that people's primary association with Hitler was the proportion of votes he got, and the lack of opposition in German domestic politics in the early 1930s? And not the Holocaust and Second World War? Doesn't sound particularly believable to me....:rolleyes:

I've explained my reference to Hitler.

If you wish to feign scepticism and call me a liar there's bugger all I can do about that, fill yer boots.

[43Inches]

https://www.idea.int/data-tools/data/voter-turnout/compulsory-voting

Ultimately we know we have to vote for someone or else the system will fall apart.

Not sure what falls apart when you remove the random votes by people that don't really care who wins and just cross anything or the first on the list. Look at the map and see how many countries on that list are strong democracies and apply compulsory voting. Australia is about the only stable democracy on it that practices such.

[Xeptu]

Not sure what falls apart when you remove the random votes by people that don't really care who wins and just cross anything or the first on the list. Look at the map and see how many countries on that list are strong democracies and apply compulsory voting. Australia is about the only stable democracy on it that practices such.

Well that would still be a vote :) informal voters just drop a blank unmarked ballot paper in the box, but most just have their name crossed off and walk out.

[ruprecht]

Fuhrer now stating he wants 90% AND then two months afterwards before opening borders.

Looks like McGowan is secretly hoping that covid will sneak in so he won’t have to make a decision.

Or… he’s doing his bit for Albo.

[SHVC]

Well NSW didn't have too, we are only supposed to be returning Australian Citizens, still about 40,000 to go, maybe NSW should focus on them instead. I note she did say "wouldn't that be wonderful" if we can do that by Christmas. But then that can be viewed as failure recovery action.

Wow! You really are a savage. NSW which I agree should be letting residents return home. It’s on the inside their passport also. I really hope WA stays closed well into next yr and the price of the ore tanks to $50 tonne!

[43Inches]

Well that would still be a vote https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif informal voters just drop a blank unmarked ballot paper in the box, but most just have their name crossed off and walk out.

It would be interesting to see what voter turn out would be without the mandatory system, and what changes it would bring to candidates. Overseas the voter turn out is used heavily to show how much interest the public has in policy and direction and political engagement.

Well NSW didn't have too, we are only supposed to be returning Australian Citizens, still about 40,000 to go, maybe NSW should focus on them instead.

It's funny that number has been 40,000 since March LAST year. It's stayed at 40,000 every time they mention returning Australians, so it's either a BS number or they are letting as many Aussies leave each time they bring some back. Either that or some of those overseas Australians are multiplying like rabbits in boredom.

[Xeptu]

Wow! You really are a savage. NSW which I agree should be letting residents return home. It’s on the inside their passport also. I really hope WA stays closed well into next yr and the price of the ore tanks to $50 tonne!

Well that's more likely to have a bigger impact upon Australia more than the people of WA.

[Potsie Weber]

Wow! You really are a savage. NSW which I agree should be letting residents return home. It’s on the inside their passport also. I really hope WA stays closed well into next yr and the price of the ore tanks to $50 tonne!

That will also have a big effect on the Federal Government’s revenue and the extra money they can pump into COVID relief. A shift of $10 per tonne for iron ore, hits the federal government by about $2b.

[Lead Balloon]

$2b per annum? Chump change for the biggest spending federal government in Australian history.

A short dose of running its own defence force and 'stopping the boats' itself would be very 'character building' for WA, I reckon.

[dr dre]

Fuhrer now stating he wants 90% AND then two months afterwards before opening borders.

More technically it was 80%-90% and a grace period for any stragglers to get a shot.

The rate of vaccine uptake per day is about 0.7%, so it’s quite possible once hitting 80% the time to high 80’s could only be about two weeks, basically I think they’re going until the rate of increase begins to level off (ie you start running into the anti-vaxxers). This is probably what all states with low Covid at the moment will aim for, Tasmania, ACT and NT have pretty much said so too. Once all’s said and done it’ll probably only be an extra a month or so.

But the supply of vaccines is increasing too, Moderna coming online soon so the supply is going to increase to two million per week (from about 1.3 million per week start of August) which should bring the dates to hit targets forward considerably.

Even with a grace period I think a nationwide Christmas reopening is possible.

[Ladloy]

That will also have a big effect on the Federal Government’s revenue and the extra money they can pump into COVID relief. A shift of $10 per tonne for iron ore, hits the federal government by about $2b.
They've been printing money since 2013 when they said "back in the black". 200m net debt from Labor government and about 800m since 2013. I don't think they're worried about extra money anymore.

[Xeptu]

They've been printing money since 2013 when they said "back in the black". 200m net debt from Labor government and about 800m since 2013. I don't think they're worried about extra money anymore.

I have always wondered what money is actually, is it really worth anything, if the world collapsed, money would be the very last thing anyone would want to trade with, so what is it really worth.

[43Inches]

As long as you don't print more money than what others are printing who cares. The US has given up trying to curb spending since Trump got in, problem is, who's going to collect on the debt... China on the other hand just prints money, and then fixes its currency value to stop it going high enough to affect business, so presently, cash currency is worth almost nothing in reality as no one is holding it to any value at all. There is most likely a big shake up coming that will force a change in how wealth is determined, but who knows what, when and how that will manifest.

All money does is make things with no value have perceived value. I can buy a litre of milk for $1, but a 400ml bottle of water is $4... now would you swap 4 litre of milk for 400ml of water? but we effectively do that each day in millions of transactions.

[Xeptu]

Interesting isn't it, if you want my wheat, lamb, wool, beef, pigs, milk. I want your, fruit, vegetables and any manufactured products I need, if you can't trade with anything I want then you need to be a part in producing those things I do. This provides some insight to a post apocalypse world. Skills and Knowledge rules.

[43Inches]

Petrol prices in Australia are a good example of being played for fools, they make the price artificially float up and down up to 40%. Therefore there is no direct price for any individual service station to compete on, the consumer gets sick of playing the game of waiting until its cheap and just fills up whether its 50 cpl or $1.50 pl. It's a mass unofficial collusion that the gov don't want to touch for whatever reason. What is a litre of petrol worth, well apparently somewhere between $1 and $1.75 at the moment, funny that the price of oil or processing has not changed much... Imagine if the price of milk floated between $1 and $2 a litre, milk gets processed and transported by trucks the same way petrol does and the price does not fluctuate.

The other one that doesn't make sense at the moment, Beef farmers are getting record prices for meat. Abattoirs and butchers are going out of business, so what is failing? Why are the farms getting record prices but the processing is failing?

[Xeptu]

Petrol prices in Australia are a good example of being played for fools, they make the price artificially float up and down up to 40%. Therefore there is no direct price for any individual service station to compete on, the consumer gets sick of playing the game of waiting until its cheap and just fills up whether its 50 cpl or $1.50 pl. It's a mass unofficial collusion that the gov don't want to touch for whatever reason. What is a litre of petrol worth, well apparently somewhere between $1 and $1.75 at the moment, funny that the price of oil or processing has not changed much... Imagine if the price of milk floated between $1 and $2 a litre, milk gets processed and transported by trucks the same way petrol does and the price does not fluctuate.

In my experience, the value of anything is what other people are prepared to pay for it. It gets a bit complicated when its something you must have.

[43Inches]

In my experience, the value of anything is what other people are prepared to pay for it. It gets a bit complicated when its something you must have.

The point is using a remote currency confuses value, it's very easy to part with wads of cash for an item you didn't really want, but if you had to trade it for something of value you would consider the transaction far more.

[Xeptu]

The point is using a remote currency confuses value, it's very easy to part with wads of cash for an item you didn't really want, but if you had to trade it for something of value you would consider the transaction far more.

In a collapsed world, you can bring me all the cash and gold bullion you want, but sorry we have no use for it.

[machtuk]

Fantastic work Anna these pics are now making global headlines of our state luncheon that went on today down at Tweed. Not to mention the live Sunrise interview during that week with people jumping the border live on TV in the backdrop.
Embarrassing. I’m actually embarrassed to be an Queenslander. Send me back to Singapore.

In fact I’ll even head back to the land of Gladys and Dan where we won’t live like Hermits come December unlike us up north.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/daa657e4_448e_4d26_9007_f49695b2cb31_288a5c32d21a63018db89b5 690e6bf601515a97f.jpeg

This would have to be the most tragic picture of this whole bull**** mess! Australia's version of the Berlin Wall created by modern day criminal lunatics!

[Tucknroll]

More technically it was 80%-90% and a grace period for any stragglers to get a shot.

The rate of vaccine uptake per day is about 0.7%, so it’s quite possible once hitting 80% the time to high 80’s could only be about two weeks, basically I think they’re going until the rate of increase begins to level off (ie you start running into the anti-vaxxers). This is probably what all states with low Covid at the moment will aim for, Tasmania, ACT and NT have pretty much said so too. Once all’s said and done it’ll probably only be an extra a month or so.

But the supply of vaccines is increasing too, Moderna coming online soon so the supply is going to increase to two million per week (from about 1.3 million per week start of August) which should bring the dates to hit targets forward considerably.

Even with a grace period I think a nationwide Christmas reopening is possible.

Demand for vaccines currently outstrips supply. This is going to be reversed soon and it will present a more clear picture of the proportion of the population who are unwilling to get vaccinated. I think that number may well be in excess of 20% of the adult population. I think the government knows this too, that’s why there is a massive push to influence those around you and for employers to pressure their workers to do it, you need to agree to do the latter if you want to get a Covid safe plan for your business in NSW.

The number of people resistant to vaccination will increase as the lower age limit is reduced. People can be pressured into getting a jab they’re skeptical about, it’s harder to pressure someone into getting their kid vaccinated with a vaccine they don’t trust.

So far the only country in the world to achieve 80% of their population vaccinated is Malta.

[Clare Prop]

Like the comparison of state premiers with Hitler, now we have a plastic barricade being compared to the Berlin Wall. A barrier where people were shot by snipers if they tried to cross. More hyperbole and trivialising a dreadful time in history.

Saw on TV the other day a weepy sob story of a person unable to "go home" across the same barrier, while on camera in the background people were jumping over it!

[SHVC]

Do we really need to reference the WA premier to a figure in history that is better forgotten. As bad as he is at running a state, he is not that! No one is being shot at the wall also, if anything, it just makes Australia (if that’s what we still call this island) look bloody terrible to the world. May as well keep international border closed who would want to come here after seeing how we treat each other.

[aussieflyboy]

Like the comparison of state premiers with Hitler, now we have a plastic barricade being compared to the Berlin Wall. A barrier where people were shot by snipers if they tried to cross. More hyperbole and trivialising a dreadful time in history.

You don’t think you’ll get shot if you ran past the numerous QLD Police officers at the airport without answering their stupid questions?

Why do they have their weapons attached if they’re not prepared to use them. They are not required to have weapons attached at all times however they all have them on at the airport…

[43Inches]

You don’t think you’ll get shot if you ran past the numerous QLD Police officers at the airport without answering their stupid questions?

Why do they have their weapons attached if they’re not prepared to use them. They are not required to have weapons attached at all times however they all have them on at the airport…

They have weapons to deal with threats such as armed offenders and terrorists etc etc... If you run past a police officer or border control agent at a checkpoint illegally you will become a criminal and they have the right to arrest you. No police officer in Australia can shoot you on sight without a valid safety reason to do so. The freedom protests were a good example where police are charged and beaten yet not shooting at random protesters who are disobeying the law.

Again comparing Australia with truly evil past iterations of government and control is just stupid and shows complete lack of empathy for the survivors of those events and lack of education.

The pictures of the people jumping over roadworks barriers is not akin to the Berlin wall, it's akin to jumping the median strip on a busy freeway. The danger is not getting shot by police it's spreading covid and getting hit by a car. The pictures just mean police have footage of you and can charge you at any time they wish from video evidence, they don't need to shoot you. If they can be bothered you will get a fine or summons for court in the mail in the next 12 months.

PS if you have a passport or drivers licence the facial recognition software will give the police your name and address in about 10 seconds, it's then just a matter of whether they think it's worth their time to charge/fine you.

[MickG0105]

... Why do they have their weapons attached if they’re not prepared to use them. They are not required to have weapons attached at all times ...
That's not correct. Uniformed Queensland Police officers are required to carry a Service firearm in a Service issued holster which is to be worn on a Service issued utility belt when on duty unless authorised by the District officer.

[Gnadenburg]

For the border hoppers, QLD Police Officers are accessing your iPhone to see where you've been. "Significant Locations" is the hardware. Happened to me yesterday whilst hiking up on the border. Nice guy, believed in what he was doing, however, what a shameful mess of a country.

[Gnadenburg]

In a collapsed world, you can bring me all the cash and gold bullion you want, but sorry we have no use for it.

As you know, what you have will just be taken off you by those with better weapons.

[Ladloy]

Scotty off for a holiday again. I guess there's not much to do when you handball your responsibility to the states

[SHVC]

For the border hoppers, QLD Police Officers are accessing your iPhone to see where you've been. "Significant Locations" is the hardware. Happened to me yesterday whilst hiking up on the border. Nice guy, believed in what he was doing, however, what a shameful mess of a country.
Of course, you don't have to let them search your phone without probable cause, even then, they still need a warrant.

[SHVC]

Scotty off for a holiday again. I guess there's not much to do when you handball your responsibility to the states

holiday? wouldn't call it that. Just a citizen that applied for a travel permit (you know, those papers we need to leave home lawfullly in this crazy a$$ country) to leave one state and to enter another and was granted the exemption provided he stayed in his residents upon return only leave for essential reasons. Which is what he is doing.

I applied for a permit Sunday also and was approved will you give me grief!

[Lead Balloon]

Just one of many, many examples that prove there is no lockdown and the borders aren't closed. It's one of the reasons so many people don't take the 'rules' seriously.

[dr dre]

Of course, you don't have to let them search your phone without probable cause, even then, they still need a warrant.

I’m not sure that’s the case in Australia:

Police searches without a warrant (https://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/Find-legal-information/Criminal-justice/Police-and-your-rights/Police-searches-without-a-warrant)

It’s pretty much a grey area.

There was a US Supreme Court case that said police generally need a warrant to search a phone, and that’s maybe why there’s an idea that extends to Australia as well.

[SHVC]

They need probable cause, police just cant walk up to you and search you.

I think your issue is with AB, surprisingly who also sits on the side of Labor. Sco mo has done nothing wrong, he went through the correct process and was approved then exercised that to travel back to NSW.

Mr AFL on the other hand was denied by McGoose then gave EM cheek about it, he let others that were less needed to be there than EM. This GF will be interesting playing at 19:00 WST I'm thinking it could well be the lowest viewership in and AFL GF history.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

From the ABC
NSW residents have been warned police will be checking the vaccination records of anyone enjoying new freedoms next week as the state records 1,220 new COVID-19 cases.
A small number of new freedoms around outdoor recreation for the fully vaccinated come into effect next week (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/nsw-eases-some-covid-restrictions-for-fully-vaccinated-people/100408546) and Deputy Premier John Barilaro said police would monitor people's vaccination status from Monday.


Am I the only one who is concerned by this? Key words - "new freedoms". WTF. I always thought that outdoor recreation in my country was a an inalienable right.

[Keg]

For the border hoppers, QLD Police Officers are accessing your iPhone to see where you've been. "Significant Locations" is the hardware.

Whist I have no significant qualms adhering to the various health directions I made a decision a couple of years back that I would not let Apple (and now the QLD police) see my ‘significant locations’ and thus it’s not enabled on my phone.

[Xeptu]

Whist I have no significant qualms adhering to the various health directions I made a decision a couple of years back that I would not let Apple (and now the QLD police) see my ‘significant locations’ and thus it’s not enabled on my phone.

It's pretty hard not to these days. The metadata (celltower info) is stored by your service provider, it's no where near as accurate as your handset data but good enough. An android handset is almost impossible to hide.

[machtuk]

From the ABC


Am I the only one who is concerned by this? Key words - "new freedoms". WTF. I always thought that outdoor recreation in my country was a an inalienable right.

its the start of Govt sanctioned discrimination, human rights abuse and segregation, class division in a third world country with a first world facade!

[Xeptu]

its the start of Govt sanctioned discrimination, human rights abuse and segregation, class division in a third world country with a first world facade!

Nobody seems to mind when a company does it, like over in the QF Mandate thread.

[601]

Demand for vaccines currently outstrips supply.
Did you forget to count the 1.5 million AZ jabs sitting in GP fridges?

[Icarus2001]

This GF will be interesting playing at 19:00 WST I'm thinking it could well be the lowest viewership in and AFL GF history.

Where did you get that idea?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-07/afl-grand-final-start-time-revealed/100440842

5:15pm WST

[PoppaJo]

Looks like Mr Perrottet is starting to prepare for the kill.

[Keg]

It's pretty hard not to these days. The metadata (celltower info) is stored by your service provider, it's no where near as accurate as your handset data but good enough. An android handset is almost impossible to hide.

Yes but the local copper asking to see my phone can’t get the metadata by looking at it.

[AerialPerspective]

As you know, what you have will just be taken off you by those with better weapons.

Funnily enough, all those against a republic should consider while expressing adoration of the royals that the above is EXACTLY how they got into the castles - by their predecessors having better (swords at the time, in size or numerically) and nothing more.

[AerialPerspective]

Yes but the local copper asking to see my phone can’t get the metadata by looking at it.

If someone stopped me when I was acting within the law, demanding to see my phone, I would be asking first "do you suspect me of committing crime", second "if so, what exactly is your probable cause" and if neither of those apply "where is your search warrant".

AND, NO. I haven't been watching too many US TV shows, I live in the only State with something approximating a Bill of Rights which spells out precisely how and under what circumstances Police can stop you.

Happily, my experiences with the State Police have been that of professionalism on the part of their officers at all times (the Police Force I refer to, yes located in Australia, is consistently rated one of the most respected in the world by it's citizens). I've never had a reason to stand my ground so to speak. But I don't believe genuine concern that a crime MAY have been committed should be allowed to lazily go unchecked via exaggeration of their powers as law enforcers either.

[neville_nobody]

The problem is the current system is that it relies on authorities "doing the right thing". How long are these "emergency powers" going to be kept alive? How many years am I not going to be able to travel freely within my own country? Australia has just become a pseudo Authoritarian State with 7 Countries within a country. Police checking up on citizens all in the name of "safety". Interrogation at borders about "where have you been in the last 14 days?" Is this going to continue for years to come?

Whilst everyone pans the USA there is a reason why they behave like they do are the fact they don't have Police checkpoints all over the country and Police stopping people asking what they have been doing. The problem is in Australia the pandemic may be used as an excuse for a new normal. Good luck getting a State Premier to rescind their new found power.

[Chronic Snoozer]

If system ain't broke why try to "fix" it?? := :ok:

Cheers

So we don't have "royal" programming on free to air.

[KRviator]

Did anyone see the latest from NSW Health? Confiscation of goody bags (https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/nsw-health-limits-residents-of-lockeddown-tower-block-to-six-beers-per-day/news-story/0e387ceccee145a611ddb6e38872d3d5) containing excessive amounts of alcohol for those in apartment blocks that are under quarantine! You're now limited to one six-pack, or 1 x 375ml bottle of sprits per day, per man, perhaps.

A NSW Police spokeswoman said Police officers are not confiscating alcohol delivered to residential buildings, and do not have powers to do so. In all residential lockdown locations, NSW Police are there to ensure compliance with the Public Health Orders and assist NSW Health if required,” the Police spokeswoman said.A spokeswoman for the Sydney Local Health District said when NSW Health took control of apartment buildings for the purposes of limiting the spread of coronavirus, the buildings became subject to alcohol consumption restrictions.That's the scariest bit, right there. The Police do not even have the legal authority to confiscate these items, but someone acting under the authority of the NSW Health Department apparently "does".

Police, in all states and territories are bound by strict legal guidelines on what they can and can't do, particularly regarding searches and seizures (ie, as hinted at by A P above, need a "reasonable suspicion" to search you, they can't just open your care packages willy-nilly), yet it would appear the same checks and balances do not apply to NSW Health. And that's downright scary when you realise the implications of it.

And in other news: 324 new cases in Victoria today. Good to see that Hard lockdown, arresting kiddies for using a playground and the Melbourne curfew is working, eh? Or is it just the nature of the beast with Delta, that once it get's a decent toe-hold, it's going to spread no matter what you do?

[galdian]

So we don't have "royal" programming on free to air.

You do know you can either change channels or turn the idiot box off altogether?
That'd fix those pesky royals. :ok:

You're welcome.

[Chronic Snoozer]

You do know you can either change channels or turn the idiot box off altogether?
That'd fix those pesky royals. :ok:

You're welcome.

Yes I’m aware how a TV works but thanks for the instruction. However, it’s hard to put out a fire if you keep feeding it oxygen.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Did anyone see the latest from NSW Health? Confiscation of goody bags (https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/nsw-health-limits-residents-of-lockeddown-tower-block-to-six-beers-per-day/news-story/0e387ceccee145a611ddb6e38872d3d5) containing excessive amounts of alcohol for those in apartment blocks that are under quarantine! You're now limited to one six-pack, or 1 x 375ml bottle of sprits per day, per man, perhaps.

That's the scariest bit, right there. The Police do not even have the legal authority to confiscate these items, but someone acting under the authority of the NSW Health Department apparently "does".

Police, in all states and territories are bound by strict legal guidelines on what they can and can't do, particularly regarding searches and seizures (ie, as hinted at by A P above, need a "reasonable suspicion" to search you, they can't just open your care packages willy-nilly), yet it would appear the same checks and balances do not apply to NSW Health. And that's downright scary when you realise the implications of it.

And in other news: 324 new cases in Victoria today. Good to see that Hard lockdown, arresting kiddies for using a playground and the Melbourne curfew is working, eh? Or is it just the nature of the beast with Delta, that once it get's a decent toe-hold, it's going to spread no matter what you do?

Bloody scary, the act itself, and the fact that we as a nation of “free” people aren’t screaming out.

We have become the biggest pussy push overs it’s embarrassing.

As an aside, most infectious disease experts seem to agree that once case numbers hit 100 per day with an R > 1, there’s no reeling it back in to zero. NSW, and now VIC have seen that - soon the rest will follow unless we get vaccines up high enough quick smart.

[WingNut60]

..................... - soon the rest will follow unless we get vaccines up high enough quick smart.

Is there any real-world example to show that a 70, 80 or 90 percent vaccination rate will actually curtail infection rates?
Is there any real-world example that clearly shows that vaccination rates, on their own, are having any recognisable effect on infection rates?

[Torukmacto]

Most of us will get covid , getting vaccinated won’t stop infection .

[WingNut60]

Most of us will get covid , getting vaccinated won’t stop infection .
Thanks for the opinion but I was asking about real world examples.

[Dannyboy39]

Is there any real-world example to show that a 70, 80 or 90 percent vaccination rate will actually curtail infection rates?
Is there any real-world example that clearly shows that vaccination rates, on their own, are having any recognisable effect on infection rates?
Certainly not in the U.K. where we are not far off 90%. There is chatter here that getting the virus once vaccinated in many cases could actually be slightly beneficial in giving enhanced immunity.

[Agent_86]

McGowan now saying WA will remain 'closed' to the East Coast until April 2022 :rolleyes:

[ruprecht]

McGowan now saying WA will remain 'closed' to the East Coast until April 2022 :rolleyes:

Nothing to do with the federal election due around then… :hmm:

[dr dre]

McGowan now saying WA will remain 'closed' to the East Coast until April 2022 :rolleyes:

That was a "maybe", a slowest case scenario used for budget estimates. Increased supplies of Pfizer and Moderna should push vaccination to 80-90% by November, and even with a grace period there is still a good chance of a reopening by Christmas.

Last year in early October budget documents assumed WA would remain closed to the rest of the country until April-Jun 2022. They actually opened up mid November.

[titan12]

Latest news by US Secretary of Airlines Association are that they might be accepting vaccinated tourists in November.

[unexplained blip]

Is there any real-world example to show that a 70, 80 or 90 percent vaccination rate will actually curtail infection rates?
Is there any real-world example that clearly shows that vaccination rates, on their own, are having any recognisable effect on infection rates?

Malta

And before anyone reaches for the UK as a key example, do not compare infection rates under restrictions at lower vax % with infection rates without restrictions at higher vax %

What will catch out the dumb buggers resisting the vax is that COVID can run asymptomatic or I-couldn't-give-a-rats mild-symptomatic through the responsible types and then polish off the nutters and self-important. Good frikkin riddance.

[Gnadenburg]

If the medical system breaks down, who gets the ICU bed? The vaccinated or unvaccinated? Will a medical triage system be influenced by politicians? Leaving the unvaccinated who chose in all likelihood, a preventable hospitalisation, to stomp up and down about their right to intensive care.

I get the feeling within the next six months, it could all become very ugly and even more divisive than closed State borders, if the medical system bursts at the seams.

[coaldemon]

Supposedly the Vaccinated will be protected enough to not be in ICU. We will see.

[43Inches]

Supposedly the Vaccinated will be protected enough to not be in ICU. We will see.

The UK, USA, all of Europe and Israel have plenty of data over millions of cases that Vaccinations reduce severity of symptoms by up to 97% once fully administered. Some gain full immunity, while others will suffer no more than mild flu like symptoms, a small proportion of the vulnerable can get severe symptoms and even die, that is normal for any vaccine. Covid Vaccines have shown to be very effective as well as very safe compared to almost any other medicine, with very low severe side effects compared to even over the counter drugs like Aspirin or Panadol, considering the massive amount of doses administered so far. And don't bring up long term effects, if you take Panadol or Aspirin long term you will need to be regularly tested for kidney failure, the same with many other common drugs used to treat various common ailments. Why regular blood tests are required when on these medications long term.

You can still end up in ICU for a number of other reasons. That has always been the issue that covid patients chew up hospital resources that are needed for other things. That's why elective surgeries have been delayed to free up beds and staff.

A big Friday night on a long weekend can swamp a cities ICU capability, add 100 covid patients and then what.

[StudentInDebt]

You can still end up in ICU for a number of other reasons. That has always been the issue that covid patients chew up hospital resources that are needed for other things.I don’t think this point is fully appreciated by anyone without an understanding of how an ICU unit works when treating Covid patients. The resourcing needed and precautions that have to be taken dramatically reduce the capacity that a “Friday night” generates. This then knocks on to downstream units such as HDU, ED and surgery.
Saying they’ve had 18 months to prepare doesn’t mean the healthcare systems are actually in a position to cope, they’ve spent the time firefighting the other issues that are endemic in our underfunded, under resourced and understaffed hospitals.

[43Inches]

Saying they’ve had 18 months to prepare doesn’t mean the healthcare systems are actually in a position to cope, they’ve spent the time firefighting the other issues that are endemic in our underfunded, under resourced and understaffed hospitals.

The government always says they have provided beds, 100 more beds here, 800 more beds there. It's easy to build wings and add equipment, but you can not reach into a bag and pull out doctors and nurses without many years of lead time, we already import a huge amount of doctors due to the shortfall here. Add to that specialist doctors, surgeons and nurses who are actually useful in ICU. The idea is just to make em work longer and more isolated, all the while exposed to a virus that could incapacitate them for years, yeah, great for the health system.

[Agent_86]

Tthere is still a good chance of a reopening by Christmas

Highly unlikely given McGowan has been interviewed by several local WA News outlets and has stated the same rhetoric that the border opening to NSW, ACT & VIC will be months away. In the meantime WA is open to SA/TAS/NT & QLD (with Quarantine).

[rattman]

If the medical system breaks down, who gets the ICU bed?.

In NSW case they are still working on the document. I sail with some ER / Doctors and while we are not NSW the basics has been discussed by all states. The basics of the ER system as it stands is most serious case gets attention first. In the a case of a complete melt down of ICU system the reverse will be instigated. The case with the best chance of survival will be treated first also to a lessor extent the one that going to take less time in the ICU. The big difference is medical staff will also have the ability to withdraw care for anyone if their chances of survival get to low. Vacination helps with all of these things, so all other things being equal if the vacinated person has a better chance of survival they will get the bed. That will the consideration regardless of it being covid, car accident , drug overdose. They will be looking at the patients and treating the one with the best chance of survival

**edit** think the numbers have stabilised enough in NSW that it wont get to that point so its hopefully a moot conversation

[SHVC]

Supposedly the Vaccinated will be protected enough to not be in ICU. We will see.

Fully vaxed patients in ICU has remained steady in NSW for sometime, as of today only 17% fully vax in ICU. (https://covidlive.com.au/nsw)

[KRviator]

Fully vaxed patients in ICU has remained steady in NSW for sometime, as of today only 17% fully vax in ICU. (https://covidlive.com.au/nsw)I do believe the 36 figure isn't fully vaccinated, if I'm looking at the same figure you are (36) as it says it doesn't discriminate between one or both vaccinations. But you are still right, it has been static all week, despite a 20% increase in ICU Covid patients.

I'd be really interested in knowing if any of those 36 have significant co-morbidities. The KRviatrix and I both had our 2nd shots last week. Didn't bother me in the slightest, but it sat her on her asre for 2 days, in bed with the chills, then feverish, then the chills again and that made me wonder, if we were to both get Covid, without being vaccinated, would I be one of those to shrug it off and she'd wind up in ICU? I dunno?

[43Inches]

The Israeli study on Pfizer was pretty telling that in the two weeks after the first jab you were not much better off than those with none, but by day 24, which was double jab and 10 days you virtually had no chance of severe symptoms. So it's pretty critical to think of "fully vaccinated" as double dose plus 2 weeks.

[SHVC]

Either one or two doses, the data is there. 1 dose is better than no dose.

WA not allowing NSW in at all for Xmas

QLD if I read it correctly are allowing essential workers into QLD.

[rattman]

Either one or two doses, the data is there. 1 dose is better than no dose.

WA not allowing NSW in at all for Xmas

QLD if I read it correctly are allowing essential workers into QLD.

Essential workers have always been allowed in QLD just people were trying to use the NSW definition of essential and not the QLD. Now the border bubble is back, hell froze over today. Bruz actually thanked the QLD government for it during the morning press conference

[Potsie Weber]

Fully vaxed patients in ICU has remained steady in NSW for sometime, as of today only 17% fully vax in ICU. (https://covidlive.com.au/nsw)

From the NSW surveillance report ending 21 August

Of the 1,692 people hospitalised as a result of COVID-19 in the current outbreak, 248 (15%) people were in ICU of which 211 (85.1%) were unvaccinated or whose vaccination status is unknown, and 35 (14.1%) were partially vaccinated or had a single dose within 14 days. There were 2 (0.8%) fully vaccinated cases admitted to ICU.

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/covid-surveillance-report-20210904.pdf

[machtuk]

Got my coercion letter from the corrupt Govt yesterday begging me to take the poison up the ass, I feel wanted-)
The fear continues for so many, amongst these pages, love it! -)

[43Inches]

Got my coercion letter from the corrupt Govt yesterday begging me to take the poison up the ass, I feel wanted-)
The fear continues for so many, amongst these pages, love it! -)

I would be scared as well if someone told me it went in there!

I just got it in the shoulder....

[JustinHeywood]

Got my coercion letter from the corrupt Govt yesterday begging me to take the poison up the ass, I feel wanted-)
The fear continues for so many, amongst these pages, love it! -)

Living in fear? Come on.

So many brave ‘Freedom Fighters’ scared of a jab in the arm.

It’s only a little prick. I’m pretty sure you’ve seen one of those.

[SHVC]

NSW 80% double dose has already been pushed back 4 weeks (early December) because of the hesitancy of the 16-39 yr olds. I can see NSW and the country struggling to get to this arbitrary 80% that no where else in the world is mandating. F$&k living in indefinite lockdowns because of this every age group is eligible for a vaccine now, set a date, stick to it anyone else or state that wants to stay away let them.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

It’s not all vaccine hesitancy, young people trying to book vaccine are already into late November just for their first jab , and it should be their choice to have Pfizer if they want it .

[SHVC]

It’s not all vaccine hesitancy, young people trying to book vaccine are already into late November just for their first jab , and it should be their choice to have Pfizer if they want it .

It surprises me that they think Pfizer is better, I guess reading Facebook on the can whilst dropping a deuce is the best way to inform one self. When they go to a doctor for a tetnus shot does anyone choose which 1 of about 6 different brands they could have?!

[DirectAnywhere]

It’s not all vaccine hesitancy, young people trying to book vaccine are already into late November just for their first jab , and it should be their choice to have Pfizer if they want it .

Had to see my GP yesterday about something unrelated to COVID, but we were discussing the vaccine rollout. His surgery is administering Pfizer and he believes that within the next couple of weeks he will have more supply than he can use, to the point of needing to advertise to avoid wastage as they don’t have ultra cold storage. He says his next problem will be simply finding enough arms to put the stuff in to. His is a largish local practice, maybe 10 GPs.

Notably, I can’t even make a booking via the state health website yet for the under-16, the over-16 is booked for November but my GP now says he should be able to get them both in before the end of September based on anticipated supply. Remember also that a lot of people in SYD and MEL have now taken AZ, rather than Pfizer, to get whatever was available earlier. So, in short, things may be about ramp up rapidly in relation to MRNA vaccine supplies (Moderna coming online too) if my GP is correct. I hope so. If you’re a “young people” it’s worth starting to check with your GP.

[rmcdonal]

It surprises me that they think Pfizer is better, I guess reading Facebook on the can whilst dropping a deuce is the best way to inform one self. When they go to a doctor for a tetnus shot does anyone choose which 1 of about 6 different brands they could have?!
The difference is the type of vaccine, not the brand. The tetanus shots are all the same thing, but AZ and Pfizer are two different types of vaccine.
It's not hard to find information about either of them, or to speak to a doctor and get the same info, you can do both while on the toilet. Probably the biggest issue with the vaccines right now is that the protection doesn't kick in till about 2 weeks after the second shot, so being able to get both shots done within a month (Pfizer) brings the time frame for protection down significantly when compared to AZ which is months longer.

[DirectAnywhere]

so being able to get both shots done within a month (Pfizer) brings the time frame for protection down significantly when compared to AZ which is months longer.

This is no longer the case as per updated advice from ATAGI.

https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/learn-about-covid-19-vaccines/about-the-vaxzevria-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1439x516/c9f5b59f_4583_4af4_bb86_fd9b64498c1b_daf68b8858cfbfc7c5bf439 9041db648a07cadd0.jpeg

[turbantime]

NSW 80% double dose has already been pushed back 4 weeks (early December) because of the hesitancy of the 16-39 yr olds. I can see NSW and the country struggling to get to this arbitrary 80% that no where else in the world is mandating. F$&k living in indefinite lockdowns because of this every age group is eligible for a vaccine now, set a date, stick to it anyone else or state that wants to stay away let them.
I can’t seem to find any information suggesting the timeframe has been pushed back?

[ScepticalOptomist]

I can’t seem to find any information suggesting the timeframe has been pushed back?

Will hit the mark sooner I thought?

[Angle of Attack]

Yes ATAGI has recommended AZ to 4 weeks in certain states but it results in a less effective vaccine. But if your facing imminent exposure to COVID that is the best advice. It’s still in the high 80% for serious disease compared to mid 90% for the full 12 week gap, but it’s pretty much insignificant for healthy people.

[Derfred]

ATAGI’s job is to recommend what’s best for the nation. Not for you as an individual.

To find out what’s best for you, as an individual, talk to your GP.

They might not give you a black and white answer, but they might be able to direct you to data… proper data, not the **** you are reading on facebook or pprune or your preferred blogger.

Then you can decide.

[rattman]

Yes ATAGI has recommended AZ to 4 weeks in certain states but it results in a less effective vaccine. But if your facing imminent exposure to COVID that is the best advice. It’s still in the high 80% for serious disease compared to mid 90% for the full 12 week gap, but it’s pretty much insignificant for healthy people.

Yes the advice changes on zones / areas example the official advice is

The Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) (https://www.health.gov.au/committees-and-groups/australian-technical-advisory-group-on-immunisation-atagi) recommends the COVID-19 vaccine by Pfizer (https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/learn-about-covid-19-vaccines/about-the-comirnaty-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine)is preferred in adults aged under 60 years.

it then says later

Noting the current constrained supply of the Pfizer vaccine, ATAGI also recommends adults under the age of 60 who do not have immediate access to the Pfizer vaccine should consider the benefits and risks (https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/covid-19-vaccination-weighing-up-the-potential-benefits-against-risk-of-harm-from-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca) of earlier protection through the AstraZeneca vaccine.

This recommendation is in the context of an outbreak increasing the risk of people contracting COVID-19 – and hence the increased benefit vaccination provides.

But more the specific original question, atagi recommend a earlier but less effective protection if you are in an area suffering an outbreak currently

Given the heightened risk of people becoming infected, ATAGI’s advice in responding to such an outbreak of the COVID-19 delta strain (https://www.health.gov.au/news/atagi-statement-on-use-of-covid-19-vaccines-in-an-outbreak-setting) is that anyone who has received a AstraZeneca vaccine more than 4 weeks ago should contact their vaccine provider to arrange their second dose as soon as possible.

[Foxxster]

I am sure you have all already seen this but it is the first time I have.. shows just how low the traffic volumes are at Sydney airport. Scroll down for the graphs.

https://flightaware.com/live/airport/YSSY

[White Knight]

I think these screenshots are quite telling too... In conjunction with Foxxter's post above.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x563/img_7975_f9175063f61b8e212c8942332219d68a243fd3ed.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x563/img_7976_850dab537b9e566dad13fe2aa21a0e8ac556e9f6.jpg

[lc_461]

Is it to early to start feeling a bit of optimism?
NSW, VIC, SA I think trialing home quarantine for some domestic travelers. SA/TAS both quietly announced they will open their borders around 80%ish without sensationalism.
Slightly calmer rhetoric from QLD CHO now that her favourite vaccine is available to all..
ACT and NSW approaching/have hit 80% first dose with still many young people booked for a first dose..
ScoMo appearing to support more international travel by November..

I feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel for our industry for the first time in months.

[SHVC]

NSW has no choice but to open up mid November when 80% is reached. You can book flights to FiJi early December I think. I can almost guarantee you will be able to travel to London, LA and Fiji before you can visit rattle and rum in cairns and that other place WA I think it’s called.

[layman]

Probably very much an outlier, but a 69 year old gentleman was released from Westmead hospital earlier this month, 399 days after being admitted with Covid

Are there still any doubters about being vaccinated / encouraging 'everyone' to become vaccinated?

[Angle of Attack]

Hi layman,
yes it’s an outlier case but it’s generally true that COVID patients hang around in hospital beds and in particularly ICU way longer than anyone else,
this is the main problem the long term stays Covid patients need compared to almost anything else.

[Turnleft080]

As of today 5km has extended to 10, 2 hours of exercise 4, skate board parks open, a few more at the picnic park if vaccinated, and the AMA are screaming this is going to overload the hospital system. Lets see how they react to Dan's press conference tomorrow when he brings out the Melways.

[dr dre]

Challenges in Singapore also, with 78% of total population fully vaxed- 97/98% of over 16s (can someone tell me how they did that ?)



An effective government, a collectivist mindset which places the importance of a harmonious, well functioning society above any individual rights, and no politicians spreading anti vax messages (https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/kelly/13479832) in the media.

They’re just a smarter, more mature society than Australia is.

[PoppaJo]

An effective government, a collectivist mindset which places the importance of a harmonious, well functioning society above any individual rights, and no politicians spreading anti vax messages (https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/kelly/13479832) in the media.

They’re just a smarter, more mature society than Australia is.
Well functioning that’s for sure. My ex colleagues at Scoot have been getting paid for the last 18 months. Meanwhile over here we’ve got executives fighting for bonuses while front line staff are selling homes, cars, essentially going bankrupt.

What an absolute cluster**** we are here.

[ScepticalOptomist]

An effective government, a collectivist mindset which places the importance of a harmonious, well functioning society above any individual rights, and no politicians spreading anti vax messages (https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/kelly/13479832) in the media.

They’re just a smarter, more mature society than Australia is.

And don’t forget, they’re a police state - what the government says, goes. There is no free thought by the people. Normally that’s a **** way to live, but during a pandemic, it works!

[Icarus2001]

What sort of leader shuts down a public transport system to prevent people protesting?

I am embarrassed to live in a country that thinks this is okay.

[No Idea Either]

What sort of leader shuts down a public transport system to prevent people protesting?.

I know it’s a fine line Icarus, but they shut it down to prevent ‘spreading’ 1st, protesting 2nd😒😒

[KRviator]

That's democracy, you know. Trampling on peoples right to peacefully protest the Government decision that makes their protesting "illegal"...

All from the State whose CHO declared that "Never again, would we get over 300 cases a day - not on my watch!" - and remember, this being the person who is making these Public Health Orders that restrict gatherings, funerals, weddings....

[machtuk]

Who would have thought that in these modern times Australia, a once proud nation for equality would now be leaders in oppression, discrimination & abuse human rights all because of corrupt politicians with their un-elected stooges behind the scenes out of control about a flu virus that has a very high rate of recovery! Unbelievable!

[Turnleft080]

Word on the Vic “roadmap” is 90% vax for interstate travel.

Devastating if true as we’ll probability never get there. That’s not a roadmap but a dead end.

Might as well close down all tourism businesses now if that’s the case.
Heard on the radio retail will open up on 5th Nov that goes with interstate travel. That's according to the model still a bloody long way to go.

[PoppaJo]

Home run folks.

Like him or hate him. Vic has a plan.

What’s the plan up north and out west? That’s right. Sweet F All.

Lets get NSW/VIC up and running together that brings back a huge amount of Domestic workers back into the fray.

[dr dre]

Heard on the radio retail will open up on 5th Nov that goes with interstate travel. That's according to the model still a bloody long way to go.

That seems to be what is being suggested, interstate travel around the first week of November:

Victoria’s Roadmap: Summary of proposed restriction levels (https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-09/210919%20-%20Roadmap-Delivering%20the%20National%20Plan.pdf)

There was a deleted post here seemingly talking about some new “90%” target, that seems to be a furphy, there’s no mention of it anywhere I can see.

[DirectAnywhere]

That seems to be what is being suggested, interstate travel around the first week of November:

Victoria’s Roadmap: Summary of proposed restriction levels (https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-09/210919%20-%20Roadmap-Delivering%20the%20National%20Plan.pdf)

There was a deleted post here seemingly talking about some new “90%” target, that seems to be a furphy, there’s no mention of it anywhere I can see.

Yeah, that was me sorry. Someone sent me a screenshot with some 90% details but I couldn’t (and can’t) verify it so I deleted it. As you said, looks like a furphy. Apologies.

[krismiler]

Singapore is now running at about 1000 new cases a day with 900 currently in hospital of which 100 are serious and 18 in the ICU.

However 98% of cases have no or mild symptoms now that 82% of the population are vaccinated. Most of those seriously ill are unvaccinated and over 60 with underlying health conditions.

Home recovery is now the default for vaccinated people up to the age of 69 who test positive.

Case numbers have risen dramatically but serious cases have remained at a manageable level and the ICUs are at about 10% capacity with COVID patents.

For those under 60, fully vaccinated, without major health issues, the risk is very minimal.

[Ladloy]

Vic modelling on the roadmap shows peak of 4500 daily cases and 2200 deaths by January. Imagine delta with no vaccines.

[machtuk]

The fear continues!

[PoppaJo]

Vic modelling on the roadmap shows peak of 4500 daily cases and 2200 deaths by January.
Old Mate out west just went into cardiac arrest.

[unexplained blip]

Vic modelling on the roadmap shows peak of 4500 daily cases and 2200 deaths by January. Imagine delta with no vaccines.

Rubbish modelling, not "enveloped" by a comparable reality in say Malta, Denmark (etc), or even UK. Malta running at about 1 death p.w., Transpose to Vic pro-rata to population that is 10 p.w throw in fudge factor lets say 30. As a pro analyst/mathematician (incl COVID) such dumb projection (or mis-interpretation of a scenario by the media) sh**ts me to death. Several sets of modellers in Au have trouble exercising their theory beyond what a simple spreadsheet can manage, they can't handle time-varying vax rates and are basically modelling long-run steady state on the edge of in-control say 80% vax 18+.

There may be a few hundred deaths, a few dozen shockers but otherwise the people who pass were close to edge anyway. Vic roadmap is too slow and even over the past 4-5 days compliance has visibly slipped... Dan will have a severe crisis of authority before 23 Oct. That is a reality as important as the physics of disease transmission, and must be worked within.

Should be dropping outside masks immediately and permitting workplaces to be at or above 1/3 full if majority fully vaxxed.

[Taggert]

Vic modelling on the roadmap shows peak of 4500 daily cases and 2200 deaths by January. Imagine delta with no vaccines.

Don't these so called experts get sick of being proven wrong?

[kingRB]

For those under 60, fully vaccinated, without major health issues, the risk is very minimal.

fixed it for you

[SOPS]

Old Mate out west just went into cardiac arrest.


We love our life here. Hope we can keep the pox out as long as possible. The Golden Girl seems happy to spread it all over Australia. And ScoMo.. who I used to vote for. Right now.. we no longer need a Federal Government ( ScoMo is the PM for NSW)…

[SHVC]

We love our life here. Hope we can keep the pox out as long as possible. The Golden Girl seems happy to spread it all over Australia. And ScoMo.. who I used to vote for. Right now.. we no longer need a Federal Government ( ScoMo is the PM for NSW)…

So what’s the plan WA? Stay locked away forever, current border closure is already having drastic labor shortages over there. McGowen has not done a thing to improve WA health position which is a disaster on all fronts that’s just one of real reason for his hard stance, he wouldn’t want to be exposed. He is more than happy to ride the high of the ore boasting about saving Australia, all in all, all this is doing is deflecting Lord Daddy of the west failing as a Premier. NSW has a plan to move on, it will be without the West and QLD good luck enjoy a very long 2022 with short sharp lockdowns because you have to quach the virus when another truckie from NSW comes to deliver goods.

[Maggie Island]

Old Mate out west just went into cardiac arrest.

Hopefully he hasn’t been keeping an eye on the Iron ore price recently!

[White Knight]

Hey SHVC. Don’t waste breath on SOPS and the ‘tin-foil hat’ nonsense he comes out with; he alluded to being a tin-foil hat wearer in the ME forums a couple of days ago. I think that also means ‘hiding under rocks’ and ‘being scared of life’…

Can’t believe the nonsense still coming out of Oz over EIGHTEEN months after this pandemic started!

[Bend alot]

Singapore is now running at about 1000 new cases a day with 900 currently in hospital of which 100 are serious and 18 in the ICU.

However 98% of cases have no or mild symptoms now that 82% of the population are vaccinated. Most of those seriously ill are unvaccinated and over 60 with underlying health conditions.

Home recovery is now the default for vaccinated people up to the age of 69 who test positive.

Case numbers have risen dramatically but serious cases have remained at a manageable level and the ICUs are at about 10% capacity with COVID patents.

For those under 60, fully vaccinated, without major health issues, the risk is very minimal.

Since the start Australia has had 1,162 deaths.
Deaths below 50 years old = 19 male and 5 female, that is a total of 24 deaths under 50.
That just over doubles at below 60 to a total of 61 deaths.

[KRviator]

We love our life here. Hope we can keep the pox out as long as possible as long as the Iron Ore price stays above $100 a tonne. The Golden Girl seems happy to spread it all over Australia. And ScoMo.. who I used to vote for. Right now.. we no longer need a Federal Government ( ScoMo is the PM for NSW)…Fixed your quote for you.

Let's see how receptive the WA population is to closed borders when your State Daddy runs a budget with a few billion deficit instead of riding on the coat-tails of the major miner's...Because, let's face it, the reason, the only reason WA was able to produce a budget surplus, was the iron ore boom. It wasn't good management so much as good luck - or else your State Daddy and his Government would have been producing a surplus every year for the past 4 they were in Government, without increasing Government debt in years to come, you'd have to think.... To quote from that kids movie Monsters Inc, "Your luck will run out, eventually..."

[Qwark]

Fixed your quote for you.

Let's see how receptive the WA population is to closed borders when your State Daddy runs a budget with a few billion deficit instead of riding on the coat-tails of the major miner's...Because, let's face it, the reason, the only reason WA was able to produce a budget surplus, was the iron ore boom. It wasn't good management so much as good luck - or else your State Daddy and his Government would have been producing a surplus every year for the past 4 they were in Government, without increasing Government debt in years to come, you'd have to think.... To quote from that kids movie Monsters Inc, "Your luck will run out, eventually..."

When was that WA vote for independence again? Maybe the push for independence will go conveniently quite !!!

[Turnleft080]

Vic modelling on the roadmap shows peak of 4500 daily cases and 2200 deaths by January. Imagine delta with no vaccines.
Hold that thought. Lets go back to April 2020, when Dan said we will spend 1.3m in the coming months to set up 4000 ICU beds extra PPE etc. Well, if he kept his word, never mind the present lockdown their would not of been a lockdown this year. That was the plan even without a vaccine back then. With those beds in place today, absolute zero reasons to be in lockdown. As it stands, their is about 500 ICU beds at the moment. That is the biggest failure, never mind vaccine roll out.

[SHVC]

Vic has a road map now, QLD have an idea about when to open their border today now also. If it was not bad enough the federal government had an arbitrary 80% vaccination rate QLD want 90%. QLD currently only 59.3% first dose one could guess it would be well into 2022 before that 90% number is reached, say good by to the xmas rush for all the airlines only so many SY-ML and FiJi flights you can do.

The silver lining in NSW with 81% first dose infection rates have have stabilized over the last two weeks and have even started to indicate a decrease with today being the first time below 1000 with testing rates still high (124650 today) Victoria is on the increase, but, with their increase in vaccination should see the same trend as NSW. This should allow NSW and VIC to be able travel further abroad to other countries for xmas and even Easter.

[ScepticalOptomist]

…QLD currently only 59.3% first dose one could guess it would be well into 2022 before that 90% number is reached…

Actually QLD will hit 90% double vaccinated for 16yrs+ about the 20th December.

https://m.covidbaseau.com/vaccinations/

[SHVC]

Oh, that’s just a forecast. QLD will slow down and struggle to get near 80%.

[dr dre]

Vic has a road map now, QLD have an idea about when to open their border today now also. If it was not bad enough the federal government had an arbitrary 80% vaccination rate QLD want 90%.

You got a confirmed source for that, because all I can see is this article from the Daily Mail (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10008065/Covid-Australia-Queenslands-borders-remain-closed-nation-hits-90-cent-vaccination.html) which, if you look past the factual errors and spelling mistakes, uses phrases like “is set to”, “is understood”, “could” (ie no firm information) and quotes no sources.

[SHVC]

90% (https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/coronavirus/palaszczuk-set-to-reopen-queensland-at-90-per-cent-vaccination-rate/video/3a9713a4b5324ba7e6a0a121ba4f9270)It has been on the news all afternoon.

[DirectAnywhere]

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.news.com.au/national/queensland/news/palaszczuk-government-rejects-reports-queensland-will-stay-closed-until-90-per-cent-vaccine-coverage/news-story/1d343d1532ae612837d26d4af674e231%3famp

Thats only an hour old. Palaszczuk told reporters Jeanette Young would like to see up to 90% but looks like she has pushed back on it and won’t be waiting until 90% to reopen. Pretty fair chance QLD would never get to 90% anyway if you’ve got Palmer, Christensen and Kelly running around.