All borders to reopen.

[Bend alot]

Well it looks Mr Gunner struggling to hold onto a majority, his keep the border closed campaign slogan didn't have the effect he wanted should of been a slam dunk re election. Voters looking for certainty in time of crisis.
NT governments over the past years have only been surpassed in quality by the front page of the NT Times.

The CLP was voted out when MR Gunner took the helm, politics in the NT at that time put shame to the Rudd Gillard Rudd & Tony and Malcolm debacles combined.

Mr Gunner himself could easily challenge Trump for Tweet/comment of the day.

Well before Covid and including the CLP the economy has been declining, a walk down the mall is evident - not even the historic pub survived (this is Darwin do not forget).

Gunner getting re-elected is pretty amazing.

[Bend alot]

New York got hit hard and ended up in a 3 month lock down.

They came up with a re-open plan and reached the target June 7, the following day phase 1 of 4 was started.

Clearly they are still very nervous of this pandemic (after first hand experience) but they have a published plan based on a number of things some are cases per day and number of hospital & ICU beds available, all pretty sensible stuff.

https://gothamist.com/news/coronavirus-statistics-tracking-epidemic-new-york

https://www.rochesterregional.org/news/2020/02/coronavirus-in-new-york

Interesting they have border restrictions via a formula also a less than 24 hour exclusion.

[volare_737]

A quick question for you guys in Oz. I am trying to get home to Perth but at the moment there are only flights to Sydney. Can one stay in transit in Sydney and then ones arrive in Perth quarantine for 14 days, or would I have to quarantine in Sydney for 14 days as well. I know its not about the subject of this thread but looks like some of the guys would know. Thanks

[Chad Gates]

No. You must quarantine in the city of entry.

[Bend alot]

A quick question for you guys in Oz. I am trying to get home to Perth but at the moment there are only flights to Sydney. Can one stay in transit in Sydney and then ones arrive in Perth quarantine for 14 days, or would I have to quarantine in Sydney for 14 days as well. I know its not about the subject of this thread but looks like some of the guys would know. Thanks
Show less (https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/department-of-the-premier-and-cabinet/covid-19-coronavirus-travel-wa#)Travellers who have been in Victoria or New South Wales in the previous 14 days will not be allowed into WA, unless they fall into one of the following categories:


certain senior Government Officials
certain active military personnel
a member of the Commonwealth Parliament and any members of their staff travelling with them
a person carrying out functions under a law of the Commonwealth
the Premier of WA and any members of the Premier's staff
a person coming to WA at the request of the Chief Health Officer or the Director General of Health
any person (other than an airline or maritime crew member) responsible for transport or freight and logistics services into or out of WA
In addition, persons falling into the above categories are required to comply with certain hygiene requirements during the 14 days after the date they entered WA.

If you have been in Victoria or New South Wales in the previous 14 days and do not fall into the above categories, you will not be permitted to enter WA unless you have written approval from the State Emergency Coordinator (or a person authorised by the State Emergency Coordinator) and comply with any terms and conditions imposed on entry to WA. This may include quarantine requirements.

[compressor stall]

A quick question for you guys in Oz. I am trying to get home to Perth but at the moment there are only flights to Sydney. Can one stay in transit in Sydney and then ones arrive in Perth quarantine for 14 days, or would I have to quarantine in Sydney for 14 days as well. I know its not about the subject of this thread but looks like some of the guys would know. Thanks
Currently with that plan you'd the 14 days federal quarantine in Sydney when you arrive. My reading of the state regs (with the caveat that I'm more familiar with the aircrew exemptions, rather than for Joe public) says that you'd then you need to go somewhere else than NSW/VIC to quarantine then apply for a G2G pass to enter WA. If you think of QLD as you will have to quarantine again in QLD as you have been in NSW as a hotspot.
Then when you get to WA you'd have to quarantine again.
Study very carefully the directions in https://www.wa.gov.au/government/document-collections/covid-19-coronavirus-state-of-emergency-declarations#travel-and-border-state-wide

Note that you will need to consider multiple documents there - the original directions, then 4 amendments. Print them out, get a highlighter put them in reverse date order and good luck!

You will be best served flying straight in to PER on EK or Qatar if you can wait. Even business class might be cheaper in the long run (not having to pay multiple quarantine and flights and hotels - there aren't flights every day to Perth these days).

And these regulations are dynamic. They can change at a day's notice and don't care that you have a ticket....

[White Knight]

Norway is cracking down heavily on travel to and from a host of European neighbors where Covid is making a startling comeback.

Mainly because of a massive increase of random testing throughout Europe. Here in Spain the average age of Covid positives is around 35 years old (compared to 60 plus back in April) and well over fifty percent of them are asymptomatic... Hospitalizations are happening but at a far lower rate! Hardly startling...

[Bend alot]

Mainly because of a massive increase of random testing throughout Europe. Here in Spain the average age of Covid positives is around 35 years old (compared to 60 plus back in April) and well over fifty percent of them are asymptomatic... Hospitalizations are happening but at a far lower rate! Hardly startling...
Got any links or stats on your claims?

What is the average Covid positive age of 35 relevant too?

Spain a comparable country? I find Spain and Italy more comparable.

[volare_737]

Thanks guys !! What is this world coming to ?????

[compressor stall]

Thanks guys !! What is this world coming to ?????
The rest of the world seems to be getting on with it and generally accepting the lifestyle trade offs Not here. :(

[Bend alot]

The rest of the world seems to be getting on with it and generally accepting the lifestyle trade offs Not here. :(
Any examples?

Most of the World still seem cautious, very few "getting on with it" but your list will be interesting.

[SOPS]

Due to the Europeans need for a summer holiday every year ( and I worked in Europe for 17 years .. so I know how it works) .. it seems that outbreaks are being reported again. I don’t understand why they can’t all stay put at home for a year.

[currawong]

The rest of the world seems to be getting on with it and generally accepting the lifestyle trade offs Not here. :(

The rest of the world closed their schools. Many are yet to reopen.

Australia is one of about half a dozen that didn't, albeit a couple of weeks distance ed. for some, but open nonetheless.

Alongside Taiwan, Singapore and yes, Sweden.

Yes here.

[Bend alot]

The rest of the world closed their schools. Many are yet to reopen.

Australia is one of about half a dozen that didn't, albeit a couple of weeks distance ed. for some, but open nonetheless.

Alongside Taiwan, Singapore and yes, Sweden.

Yes here.
Sweden closed (stopped education) for all students above 15 years old - all universities were closed.

Sweden will reopen universities and upper secondary schools from mid-June, Prime Minister Stefan Löfven told a press conference on Friday.

[blubak]

Currently with that plan you'd the 14 days federal quarantine in Sydney when you arrive. My reading of the state regs (with the caveat that I'm more familiar with the aircrew exemptions, rather than for Joe public) says that you'd then you need to go somewhere else than NSW/VIC to quarantine then apply for a G2G pass to enter WA. If you think of QLD as you will have to quarantine again in QLD as you have been in NSW as a hotspot.
Then when you get to WA you'd have to quarantine again.
Study very carefully the directions in https://www.wa.gov.au/government/document-collections/covid-19-coronavirus-state-of-emergency-declarations#travel-and-border-state-wide

Note that you will need to consider multiple documents there - the original directions, then 4 amendments. Print them out, get a highlighter put them in reverse date order and good luck!

You will be best served flying straight in to PER on EK or Qatar if you can wait. Even business class might be cheaper in the long run (not having to pay multiple quarantine and flights and hotels - there aren't flights every day to Perth these days).

And these regulations are dynamic. They can change at a day's notice and don't care that you have a ticket....
No problems with almost 30,000 at the footy yesterday though-no risk there🙄

[Turnleft080]

Dan Andrews wants another 12 months of state of emergency till Sept 21. Power has now gone to his head.
This needs to be blocked and not passed by the house. If it is then borders closed till then. I thought Sept 20 was
driving me to the brink. He want's another 12 well if that happens I can sense a coup by the people.

[Slezy9]

If it is then borders closed till then. I thought Sept 20 was
driving me to the brink. He want's another 12 well if that happens I can sense a coup by the people.

You do realise that Dan Andrews hasn't closed any borders??

Who’s going to lead the coup? You with your garlic strung around your neck?

[Turnleft080]

You do realise that Dan Andrews hasn't closed any borders??

Who’s going to lead the coup? You with your garlic strung around your neck?

Well this has got me so furious, I have actually written to the Governor of Victoria, the Honourable Linda Dessau AC
to express my views and asking her to sack the government with immediate effect. If Kerr can do it you can do it.
Good idea garlic with kababs tonight.

[currawong]

Well this has got me so furious, I have actually written to the Governor of Victoria, the Honourable Linda Dessau AC
to express my views and asking her to sack the government with immediate effect. If Kerr can do it you can do it.
Good idea garlic with kababs tonight.

Good that you had a word with the boss. Matter should be sorted in no time.

:D

[Stickshift3000]

Dan Andrews wants another 12 months of state of emergency till Sept 21. Power has now gone to his head.

The State of Emergency provisions under Vic's Public Health & Wellbeing Act allows directions to be made to reduce public health risk (such as: wearing of a face mask in public places, etc).

It can only currently be in place for a 6 month duration (that date is coming up very soon); the Vic government is proposing to make it a maximum of 18 months. Passing this bill would result in government spending less $$ drafting new legislation every time the State of Emergency lapses.

This is completely unrelated to the border closure (by NSW).

[Xeptu]

Well this has got me so furious, I have actually written to the Governor of Victoria, the Honourable Linda Dessau AC
to express my views and asking her to sack the government with immediate effect. If Kerr can do it you can do it.
Good idea garlic with kababs tonight.

I can just imagine what you wrote, you're probably on the national terrorist list now then.

[1A_Please]

The State of Emergency provisions under Vic's Public Health & Wellbeing Act allows directions to be made to reduce public health risk (such as: wearing of a face mask in public places, etc).

It can only currently be in place for a 6 month duration (that date is coming up very soon); the Vic government is proposing to make it a maximum of 18 months. Passing this bill would result in government spending less $$ drafting new legislation every time the State of Emergency lapses.

This is completely unrelated to the border closure (by NSW).
You are being very kind saying it is saving drafting cost; Andrews is never scared of spending a dollar if it suits him. It gives the government the power to declare laws without putting them before parliament. It allows the government to suspend laws without reference to parliament. It means parliament may not sit until some time next year. It is a dangerous precedent and very un-Australian.

[Xeptu]

Good advice, I'm reading up on some good books doing up a Boeing 707-436 1:144 BOAC and a stack of exercises and I'm sleeping ok.
Thanks thisishardtochoose and xeptu. Good health to all.

You're welcome mate.

[Bend alot]

Good advice, I'm reading up on some good books doing up a Boeing 707-436 1:144 BOAC and a stack of exercises and I'm sleeping ok.
Thanks thisishardtochoose and xeptu. Good health to all.
If you want the really good food - top range organic with advice in Victoria.

My sister has done it on scale for 30+years on a pro basis,
wholesale and retail not just in Australia.

Keep calm and pm if needed.

[slats11]

From the outset, this has been one very strange virus. Most infectious diseases are most virulent where they originate, and become pprogressively less dangerous as they spread. The opposite is true for COVID with China (apparently) having very small numbers per capita relative to the rest of the world. Decidedly asymmetrical.

I wonder.

The median age of death (all causes) in Australia is about 81. The median age of death for Australians who died of COVID is 83. So COVID is more skewed towards the elderly than is all cause mortality.

Approx 5% of the Australian population is older than 80. That compares with about 1% older than 80 in China.

So just how noticeable would COVID be in a country with only 1% older than 80? Is China really free of COVID? Or does it simply fly under the radar with so few older than 80? Especially when the party line is that it is under control. Maybe some elderly Chinese are dying of "old age", while younger Chinese are simply getting a "cold." I am not sure how much testing they are doing for COVID in China. Maybe they have decided to "eradicate " it and get on with business.


On a related point, this article makes you wonder about the wisdom of wide societal lockdowns.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/covid-19-counter-measures-should-age-specific-martin-kulldorff

[Buster Hyman]

"Hello. On behalf of Chairman Dan, we'd like to thank you for calling the Peoples Democratic Republic of Victoria.
Our line is busy at the moment, however, a Comrade will speak to you soon as your call is important to us.
If you wish to report a breach of COVID restrictions, please press 1.
If you'd like to report the incorrect or lack of mask usage, please press 2.
If you'd like a mandatory Vaccine injection, please press 3 & ask for Scott.
If you'd like to leave Victoria, please hold the line and one of our Socially Inclusive Security staff will be with you shortly."

:mad:

[Ladloy]

"Hello. On behalf of Chairman Dan, we'd like to thank you for calling the Peoples Democratic Republic of Victoria.
Our line is busy at the moment, however, a Comrade will speak to you soon as your call is important to us.
If you wish to report a breach of COVID restrictions, please press 1.
If you'd like to report the incorrect or lack of mask usage, please press 2.
If you'd like a mandatory Vaccine injection, please press 3 & ask for Scott.
If you'd like to leave Victoria, please hold the line and one of our Socially Inclusive Security staff will be with you shortly."

:mad:
Too much Sky News?

[KRviator]

Clive Palmer's case returns to the Federal Court at 1415 AEST today. Stay tuned!

He's arguing under s.92 of the constitution though, so even if he loses, there's still scope for another challenge under s.117. The interesting bit though, according to WA's CHO:
WA's Chief Health Officer Andrew Robertson told the Federal Court there was little public health justification for keeping WA closed to the five other states and territories that had eliminated coronavirus.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

"Eliminated' or just not enuf testing performed as yet..... I wonder....??

[Turnleft080]

last night I said a coup, a Warsaw uprising well reading todays newspapers I'm not far off the mark.
Darren Hinch's Justice party was going to back it last night, this morning doesn't look like he going to cross the floor.
Dan needs 4 to cross the floor for another 12 months of this nonsense. Only 1 at this stage Animal party.
He needs another 3 and I don't think he's going to get them.
Relax Buster we still got a little bit of democracy left before the hammer and sickle flag goes up.
What happens in 3 weeks will be interesting though.

[slats11]

"Eliminated' or just not enuf testing performed as yet..... I wonder....??

I reckon they understand this virus pretty well. Getting on with business and picking fights in all directions, while we are trying to find our way out of this social and economic mess.

[Stickshift3000]

What happens in 3 weeks will be interesting though.

In 3 weeks?

You simply let the State of Emergency lapse for a single day (State Mask Off Day?) then it can be reinstated for a further 6 months... Vic government knows this.

[Turnleft080]

In 3 weeks?

You simply let the State of Emergency lapse for a single day (State Mask Off Day?) then it can be reinstated for a further 6 months... Vic government knows this.

What happens in 3 I meant, do we stay in a state of disaster or do we downgrade to a state of emergency. Do we stay at stage 4 or downgrade to stage 3.
I heard from ministers on radio (forgot their names) even if we had zero cases stage 3 would be the lowest. Incredibly amazing.

Let me pour more fuel over the fire. Gil Mclachlan should fire a warning shot off Spring street stating 'if you win an extra 12 months of SOE then no
football for the whole state next year'. Not one game. Gil has no choice.

[thisishardtochoose]

What happens in 3 I meant, do we stay in a state of disaster or do we downgrade to a state of emergency. Do we stay at stage 4 or downgrade to stage 3.
I heard from ministers on radio (forgot their names) even if we had zero cases stage 3 would be the lowest. Incredibly amazing.

Let me pour more fuel over the fire. Gil Mclachlan should fire a warning shot off Spring street stating 'if you win an extra 12 months of SOE then no
football for the whole state next year'. Not one game. Gil has no choice.

You do realise that Dan is only trying to extend the TOTAL LIMIT of SOE which is 6 months currently. This in no way shape or form means that we will be in these restrictions for the whole period of extra 12 months. Just like now SOE can only be extended in blocks of 4 weeks each.

I hope this makes sense, MSM and the opposition party have done their absolute best to avoid this particular detail.

[Turnleft080]

You do realise that Dan is only trying to extend the TOTAL LIMIT of SOE which is 6 months currently. This in no way shape or form means that we will be in these restrictions for the whole period of extra 12 months. Just like now SOE can only be extended in blocks of 4 weeks each.

I hope this makes sense, MSM and the opposition party have done their absolute best to avoid this particular detail.
Yeah got it, though it's like no one is on the same page. To many ego's and they are all trying to be the lead actor in a movie.
Speaking of movie's the whole government should watch Apollo 13, and see how a group of people on the ground deal with stress
in trying to save a spacecraft. Remember the line work the problem, failure is not an option. Well the government is failing the
state with no limits no objective. Suppression or elimination. Victorians want to know the limits, the objective so we can plan ahead.
Maybe they should do a CRM course learn to keep everyone in the loop. Learn to be a leader not a dictator. Learn the Swiss cheese effect.
The holes all lined up with hotel quarantine.

[currawong]

And yet in NSW no "State of Emergency" required as the provisions contained therein (VIC) are available for general use regarding matters of public health without any further formality.

"The New South Wales Government doesn't even need to declare a state of emergency to deal with a public health issue.

The state's Health Minister, Brad Hazzard, can make any direction he needs to reduce or remove the risk of COVID-19 in an area, to segregate or isolate people, or to block access to any part of NSW."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-25/australia-state-of-emergency-declaration-victoria-restrictions/12592714

[Turnleft080]

And yet in NSW no "State of Emergency" required as the provisions contained therein (VIC) are available for general use regarding matters of public health without any further formality.

"The New South Wales Government doesn't even need to declare a state of emergency to deal with a public health issue.

The state's Health Minister, Brad Hazzard, can make any direction he needs to reduce or remove the risk of COVID-19 in an area, to segregate or isolate people, or to block access to any part of NSW."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-25/australia-state-of-emergency-declaration-victoria-restrictions/12592714

Struth, almost sounds like my plan B I wrote #776.

[Buster Hyman]

Remember the line work the problem, failure is not an option.
There's also a great moment where Gene Kranz admonishes the NASA Director saying "With all due respect, sir, I believe this is gonna be our finest hour."....yeah, nah....

[slats11]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/technology/china-twitter-disinformation.html?auth=login-email&login=email

COVID PSYOPS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations_(United_States)

Having inflicted this on the world and then sent the world into a tailspin, China is getting down to business and aggressively pushing its international agenda

It does seem strange that early efforts to influence the world focussed on Italy. But then of course, China recognised the huge number of residents from Wuhan who were working in Italy - with multiple daily direct flights between Wuhan and Milan.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/china-italy-and-coronavirus-geopolitics-and-propaganda/
With friends like this, who needs enemies

[KRviator]

So, after downloading, printing and reading through the full judgement in Palmer v Western Australia (No4) (https://www.judgments.fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/591513/J201221.pdf) today, several things are apparent from Justice Rangiah's judgement.

Firstly, and most importantly, it appears Justice Rangiah found essentially in favour of WA in as much as their "hard border" is the singular most effective way to prevent the importation and consequent spread of Covid-19 into WA. Other measures, he wrote, were not as effective as the border closure, even though it had limitations in providing exemptions for certain people. These comments appear to reinforce WA's stance that they will not remove their "hard border" to any state until there is zero community transmission, which the judgement defines as "two incubation periods" totalling 28 days. The reason for that is to prevent "Border hopping" ie NSW-NT-WA when NSW-WA is currently prohibited.

The hearing was conducted with the agreement of all parties as to whether the border restrictions were currently justified (at the time of the hearings) - not whether they were justified when implemented. Notably the hearings were conducted 27-31 July, almost smack in the middle of the Victorian outbreak, and it is notable reading through the judgement that that outbreak - and the flow on one in NSW attributed to it - appeared to heavily influence both the experts opinion and the Justice's thinking.

The judgement was only concerned with the public health aspects of the case - there was no discussion able to consider the social, economic or constitutional aspects of it. That'll come later with Clive going to the High Court to continue his s.92 challenge, though I can foresee that being a bit harder now the Federal Court has found the Border Closures, essentially, justifiable.

The other notable thing from reading the judgement was it appeared - to me at least - to focus almost entirely on the absolute worst-case outcome should Covid-19 1. Be imported into WA and 2. be allowed to run rampant with community transmission. This is despite the judgement also finding WA has strong surveillance and testing systems, and has been successful in containing outbreaks in the past. (Pg. 67 [296]) which would appear more reasonable given what has gone on elsewhere, in NSW and Qld for example.


Food for thought should Clive lose his s.92 case and you want to go to WA anytime until a vaccine is found.......

[currawong]

I don't think Clive Palmer should get any tax payers money.

That is what he is trying for when he attempts to sue a government.

The public purse is not a slush fund for Mr Palmer to dip into whenever he feels the need to refinance.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Re - # 1051 - 'NO football for the whole state next year, not one game...' .
WA has a very nice new stadium, thankyou, full capacity around 60K bodies, or around 30K with 'virus separation'. Still MORE than any other avbl. (?)

Put ALL teams into a 'bubble' in WA, and play ALL games over 'ere.....for the foreseeable future.
A lot (most) of the players get paid VERY well, thankyou, so THAT should stop the whingers who want to stay 'home with mum'.....
Wot's it to be luv? Me or the $'s..?? Standing by for answers to that.........

CHEERRRSSS.....

[KRviator]

I don't think Clive Palmer should get any tax payers money. That is what he is trying for when he attempts to sue a government.

The public purse is not a slush fund for Mr Palmer to dip into whenever he feels the need to refinance.Maybe not. But, when the WA Government rushed through that bill last week in an attempt to legislate their way out of mediation with Mineralogy my spidey senses started tingling. I'm tipping there's a better than even chance of him being awarded quite a few $$ and the WA Government knew that and tried to worm their way out of it. If they were so sure they were "right", why the legislation at all? Why the paranoia about getting it signed off before Clive could ratify his ruling in a Qld court....

[Stickshift3000]

Maybe not. But, when the WA Government rushed through that bill last week in an attempt to legislate their way out of mediation with Mineralogy my spidey senses started tingling. I'm tipping there's a better than even chance of him being awarded quite a few $$ and the WA Government knew that and tried to worm their way out of it. If they were so sure they were "right", why the legislation at all? Why the paranoia about getting it signed off before Clive could ratify his ruling in a Qld court....

I agree. If someone is legally owed money due to a government decision, government should not be able to introduce legislation blocking that from occurring. That government has done so is as good as admitting guilt that the monies were originally owed.

Replace the figure of Clive Palmer with Glen Buckley's situation... it doesn't pass the pub test!

[Turnleft080]

Potential covid treatments are being patronisingly dismissed. Sutton and Andrews smirk their way when it comes to these questions
at the press conferences. These present drugs could save all age care deaths by a third. That is not just coming from Bolt but a lot of doctors out their.
Wether you like him or don't check out his sky report last night, it's on the tube. What currawong said at post #1054 and I said at #776 is now being splurged on TV networks.
I can even see a law suit coming on against the gov due to all these deaths. All started with hotel quarantine. Can be done. Erin Brockovich won.
If it wasn't for the Victorian debacle domestic airline ops would be at 60/70/80% by now. The borders would be open (even the WA one) and no lockdowns
anywhere except age care.

[dr dre]

Potential covid treatments are being patronisingly dismissed. Sutton and Andrews smirk their way when it comes to these questions
at the press conferences. These present drugs could save all age care deaths by a third. That is not just coming from Bolt but a lot of doctors out their.
Wether you like him or don't check out his sky report last night, it's on the tube.


I did. Bolt is still a snake oil salesman.

The Belgian Study (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920303423) he touts as an example of HCQ success had a non-HCQ group that was a median of 11 years older than the HCQ group, and had higher rates of co-morbidities like smoking and CVD. So not too earth shattering and not an unbiased study which is why the scientific community has not changed their opinion on HCQ.

Ivermectin? No valuable clinical trials have been concluded so anyone touting it as a miracle cure at this point is time is selling unproven snake oil. Here's a Professor of Pharmacology (he may know what he's talking about) explaining some of the limitations of that particular treatment (https://theconversation.com/ivermectin-is-still-not-a-miracle-cure-for-covid-19-despite-what-you-may-have-read-144569).

I love how Bolt sneers down on the National COVID task force director's qualifications, "he's just an Associate Professor (and the Head of Clinical Research in the Department of Infectious Diseases at Monash University)" and chastises the Medical Chiefs for "overlooking the role of Zinc and Ivermectin" (the debunking link above was from a Clinical and Experimental Pharmacology Researcher and Head of Pharmacy at Uni of Sydney, I think he would know that Zinc exists, Andrew).

[Xeptu]

If it wasn't for the Victorian debacle domestic airline ops would be at 60/70/80% by now. The borders would be open (even the WA one) and no lockdowns
anywhere except age care.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing mate. While the victorian debacle is unfortunate no doubt, it has identified the 17% that couldn't care less about the pandemic and more than happy to share it around. That alone would have made containment within the nation impossible. We know that 17% are in every state, so we in the unaffected states are grateful to victoria for exposing that weakness.
That issue alone will keep our borders closed for a while yet.

[slats11]

https://www.magic.co.nz/home/news/2020/08/nz-should-move-to-similar-approach-to-covid-as-sweden--who-speci.html

The WHO is now suggesting less restrictive lockdowns, that NZ should consider some sort of modified Swedish approach, and that countries have to come to terms with living with the virus.

Seems odd given the purported success of lockdowns in China. Unless of course they were not so successful after all

[Stickshift3000]

The WHO is now suggesting less restrictive lockdowns, that NZ should consider some sort of modified Swedish approach, and that countries have to come to terms with living with the virus.

Seems odd given the purported success of lockdowns in China. Unless of course they were not so successful after all

The difference is that in China anyone breaching the laws will be beaten, locked up or killed, or all three. The residents take government directions seriously.

Edit: China has disclosed occasional cases when detected, after restrictions were lifted.

[Turnleft080]

So in the last 4 posts we have a snake oil salesman, 17% think the pandemic is a myth, lets do a Sweden, beatings, lock ups and killings.
Put all these in a blender and we might get a new road to a pathway in Dan's speech in 2 weeks.

[slats11]

It’s not a myth.

But elimination and simply wishing it away os not a valid strategy. No country has eliminated this.

as we learn more, our strategy needs to evolve. With no good options, we are left with identifying the least bad.

[currawong]

Is anyone able to share the science as to how parasite treatments potentially work as an anti-viral?

Not knocking anything, just having trouble understanding the concept as the target and mode of action are quite different.

[slats11]

In addition to its anti malarial effects, HQ has anti-inflammatory effects (mainly through reduced cytokines production) and hence is used by rheumatologist as a 2nd line drug for a variety of conditioned.

It may also have some antiviral activity (cytokines again, but multiple additional postulated Mechanisms). These effects can be observed at high concentrations in lab tests, but it is not clear these mechanisms are significant at concentrations safely achieved in clinical use. Bleach and 70% alcohol also work in lab.
https://pmj.bmj.com/content/early/2020/05/28/postgradmedj-2020-137785

However the current best evidence (Recovery trial) is that it’s not helpful for COVID.
https://www.recoverytrial.net/

[slats11]

https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/story/6899220/covid-19-alert-after-confirmed-case-travelled-on-central-coast-train/?cs=6157


This is one reason why elimination is most likely not achievable. It is so subtle, and it’s peak infectivity is 1 day prior to symptoms appearing.

Many people don’t get symptoms at all. How can you eliminate something you can’t detect?

[currawong]

In addition to its anti malarial effects, HQ has anti-inflammatory effects (mainly through reduced cytokines production) and hence is used by rheumatologist as a 2nd line drug for a variety of conditioned.

It may also have some antiviral activity (cytokines again, but multiple additional postulated Mechanisms). These effects can be observed at high concentrations in lab tests, but it is not clear these mechanisms are significant at concentrations safely achieved in clinical use. Bleach and 70% alcohol also work in lab.
https://pmj.bmj.com/content/early/2020/05/28/postgradmedj-2020-137785

However the current best evidence (Recovery trial) is that it’s not helpful for COVID.
https://www.recoverytrial.net/

Thanks, slats11.

[blubak]

Potential covid treatments are being patronisingly dismissed. Sutton and Andrews smirk their way when it comes to these questions
at the press conferences. These present drugs could save all age care deaths by a third. That is not just coming from Bolt but a lot of doctors out their.
Wether you like him or don't check out his sky report last night, it's on the tube. What currawong said at post #1054 and I said at #776 is now being splurged on TV networks.
I can even see a law suit coming on against the gov due to all these deaths. All started with hotel quarantine. Can be done. Erin Brockovich won.
If it wasn't for the Victorian debacle domestic airline ops would be at 60/70/80% by now. The borders would be open (even the WA one) and no lockdowns
anywhere except age care.
Isnt covid treatment/vaccine a federal govt issue??
Im sure i saw scomo at the astrazeneca plant recently big noting himself,that was just before he came out & said the vaccine would be compulsory & then in the next breath reversed that decision.
Of course the hotel quarantine is a stuff up as is the aged care but aged care is federally funded & should be controlled properly by them however they have seen fit to continue to underfund it & turn it into the circus it now is.
Scomo apologised for it the other day but no action announced,he needs to fix it now rather than tell us they are looking into it.
Maybe decent pay & proper training might be a start but that would go against his union bashing & casualisation of the workforce agenda,no wonder the big business leaders continually praise him.

[Ladloy]

Isnt covid treatment/vaccine a federal govt issue??
Im sure i saw scomo at the astrazeneca plant recently big noting himself,that was just before he came out & said the vaccine would be compulsory & then in the next breath reversed that decision.
Of course the hotel quarantine is a stuff up as is the aged care but aged care is federally funded & should be controlled properly by them however they have seen fit to continue to underfund it & turn it into the circus it now is.
Scomo apologised for it the other day but no action announced,he needs to fix it now rather than tell us they are looking into it.
Maybe decent pay & proper training might be a start but that would go against his union bashing & casualisation of the workforce agenda,no wonder the big business leaders continually praise him.
Well said.

[Stickshift3000]

Isnt covid treatment/vaccine a federal govt issue??
Im sure i saw scomo at the astrazeneca plant recently big noting himself,that was just before he came out & said the vaccine would be compulsory & then in the next breath reversed that decision.

That was right before announcing Australia had secured a vaccine supply, only to be later told it was a letter of intent, and that CSL may not have the manufacturing capabilities for this yet-to-be-invented vaccine anyway. He did come from marketing, right?

[Ragnor]

Hopefully these idiotic premiers out their personal career aspirations aside for one minute and put the people/ country first! WA FIFO workers are being affected with ships pilots running short and Mcgowen demanding they live in WA so the resource set core could be short of workers if it keeps going and QLD denied a pregnant women entry for emergency surgery which resulted in one of the two twins dying as they had to fly to Sydney.

[KRviator]

Hopefully these idiotic premiers out their personal career aspirations aside for one minute and put the people/ country first! WA FIFO workers are being affected with ships pilots running short and Mcgowen demanding they live in WA so the resource set core could be short of workers if it keeps going and QLD denied a pregnant women entry for emergency surgery which resulted in one of the two twins dying as they had to fly to Sydney.I was going to say if this was the case from a week ago, I didn't think she had lost the baby, but you are correct, it has just appeared this morning. Here's one article. (http://www.mygc.com.au/ballina-woman-loses-twin-baby-after-being-denied-entry-to-queensland/)

As for the FIFO's, I am one of them. I couldn't temporarily move to WA early in the piece due to kids specialists and the KRviatrix being a NSW Health manager, but we have now got the telecommuting and teleheath setups in place so we can move, but we are simply forbidden from entry to WA because we live in NSW. So are colleagues from Victoria. My employer is hurting badly as a result of interstate FIFO crew not being allowed back in to WA. The "temporary" move was supposed to be for 3 months. Then it was extended by 2 months. Now you are expected to be there indefinitely because no one knows when WA will reopen their borders - which as was found in the Palmer (No4) case above, will only happen when the "eastern states" have had no community transmission for 28 days. NSW's best 3 runs have been 22, 13 and 10 days. They've got no hope of 28 days!

[compressor stall]

I had a cabbie in Perth this week complaining about how bad business was as he was taking me to the airport.

I told him the best way to fix things for him was for WA to open its border. More flying = more people =. more taxis.

He clearly didn't like the idea, but had no reply and changed the topic.

[LapSap]

And from this morning’s SMH :

”It can also be revealed desperate Australians who are trying to get back to the country are being coached by government officials to start GoFundMe-style crowdfunding campaigns if they are running out of money, as international travel has ground to a near halt during the coronavirus pandemic.”

F#*! Me.
This is their idea of MANAGING the situation rather than reacting to the hand-rail holding brigade.
We really are a 3rd world country now.

[Ragnor]

Yes I agree. The way most of Australia is handling this is pure madness. I guess we continue to live like this for the foreseeable future. Only option now is get a good job before 1000s join you.

[Chronic Snoozer]

And from this morning’s SMH :

”It can also be revealed desperate Australians who are trying to get back to the country are being coached by government officials to start GoFundMe-style crowdfunding campaigns if they are running out of money, as international travel has ground to a near halt during the coronavirus pandemic.”

F#*! Me.
This is their idea of MANAGING the situation rather than reacting to the hand-rail holding brigade.
We really are a 3rd world country now.

I won't have you impugning Australia's reputation like that. We are the cleanest 3rd world country.

[Chronic Snoozer]

I was going to say if this was the case from a week ago, I didn't think she had lost the baby, but you are correct, it has just appeared this morning. Here's one article. (http://www.mygc.com.au/ballina-woman-loses-twin-baby-after-being-denied-entry-to-queensland/)

That is disgraceful. Common sense, well it's just something we used to talk about and use. And this quote, if true and in relation to this poor woman's plight, beggars belief - “People living in NSW they have NSW hospitals. In Queensland we have Queensland hospitals for our people,” the Premier had said.

[dr dre]

That is disgraceful. Common sense, well it's just something we used to talk about and use. And this quote, if true and in relation to this poor woman's plight, beggars belief -

The story has been blown out of proportion. There was nothing stopping the transfer of this patient to Qld for emergency care. For whatever reason medical staff declined to do this and waited 16hrs for medevac to Sydney:

Brisbane Times understands the woman would not have needed an exemption to travel to Queensland because her case was considered emergency care

Dr Young said emergency care was still being offered to people from northern NSW in the same way it had been throughout the pandemic and before.“Anyone can come across the border in an emergency. The police do not stop ambulances, they do not stop LifeFlight helicopters,” she said.

“Queensland provides emergency services to the northern part of NSW and none of that has changed.”


https://www.smh.com.au/national/queensland/queensland-is-compassionate-premier-insists-after-unborn-baby-s-death-20200828-p55q7e.html

[blubak]

And from this morning’s SMH :

”It can also be revealed desperate Australians who are trying to get back to the country are being coached by government officials to start GoFundMe-style crowdfunding campaigns if they are running out of money, as international travel has ground to a near halt during the coronavirus pandemic.”

F#*! Me.
This is their idea of MANAGING the situation rather than reacting to the hand-rail holding brigade.
We really are a 3rd world country now.
All deaths in victoria today from aged care,hope the govt officials coaching the travellers desperate to return are not the same ones responsible for the running of the aged care system,its fine for the media to keep high lighting the victorian hotel quarantine fiasco but the aged care shortcomings need to be on the medias agenda every day & the blame put exactly where it needs to be for this disgusting situation.

[MrPeabody]

According to media reports a bunch of Victoria's finest covidiots are planning a mass demonstration to protest against stage 4 lock-downs on September 5th. Apparently they have over 8,000 signed up for Melbourne and 35,000 combined across other major cities.
With nightly protests in the Nong and still getting over a hundred cases a day as we near the end of week 4, I can't see us getting out of stage 4 on the 13th!

[wheels_down]

Get the tanks on the street. Whatever it takes to stop these clown doing anything that will drag this thing on and on and on.

I think the majority of Melburnians would not care less if a law was introduced to taser every single one of them.

[neville_nobody]

The madness will end as soon as the federal government turns off the free money. Once that happens all the states will have to open up and life will go on. The current circumstances have come about because none of the states are wearing any economic liability for their actions they are all being propped up by tax payer dollars from Canberra.

[jrfsp]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-28/economists-urge-caution-border-reopening-coronavirus/12604796?section=business

Very much depends which side of the fence (or border) you sit. There have been certain sectors which have been very successful (particularly resources) in maintaining BAU through minimising Covid risk (as a result of border closure)

[Turnleft080]

Get the tanks on the street. Whatever it takes to stop these clown doing anything that will drag this thing on and on and on.

I think the majority of Melburnians would not care less if a law was introduced to taser every single one of them.

Tiananmen square replay all part of the belt and trousers agreement or is that now dissolved.

[Cafe City]

The story has been blown out of proportion.


Oh, right. Thats ok then....
So what proportion would you think appropriate from the deceased twin's perspective?

[wheels_down]

Tiananmen square replay all part of the belt and trousers agreement or is that now dissolved.
Considering there is thousands of mystery cases still under investigation, it’s going to be wafer thin timing getting off Stage 4 in the next fortnight. Let alone a protest extending that for another few weeks.

Melbourne needs to ride out September in similar form to clear the backlog of those under investigation.

Regional Vic should be pulled back to Level 2 and a more hardline approach between metro and regional.

[Turnleft080]

If stage 4 went any further than 2 weeks I think Vics will then pull the pin. Cases expected to go under 100 by next week then 50 in the last week.
Listening to commentators today they expect stage 3 for metro and stage 2 for regional. That's tolerable.
Correct me if I'm wrong, that would mean no more 8pm curfew, no more 5km restriction, a few more people at weddings/funerals, no go to work permit.

[currawong]

"National and state security officers, police or health or emergency services workers responding to an emergency in Queensland (eg a paramedic driving an ambulance across the border to transport a patient with life threatening injuries) and maritime crew entering Queensland in accordance with the protocol for maritime crew are not required to complete the Queensland Border Declaration Pass."

https://www.qld.gov.au/border-pass/general

Show me a state premier that is not following the advice of that states chief health/ medical officer.

[Stickshift3000]

"National and state security officers, police or health or emergency services workers responding to an emergency in Queensland (eg a paramedic driving an ambulance across the border to transport a patient with life threatening injuries) and maritime crew entering Queensland in accordance with the protocol for maritime crew are not required to complete the Queensland Border Declaration Pass."

https://www.qld.gov.au/border-pass/general

Show me a state premier that is not following the advice of that states chief health/ medical officer.

There are currently many knowledge gaps in this unfortunate story; I'm absolutely not downplaying the significance of this at all. How, and at what stage, was the quarantine exemption requested (prior to the emergency? Did NSW Health try and take the patient to Qld - why not? Did the patient go through the correct avenues (at the right time) to get taken to Brisbane? Simply asking some legitimate questions.

Hopefully this sad issue has shaken a bit of sense into the Qld premier - particularly after their disgraceful (and untrue) 'Qld hospitals are for our people only' comment. I hope that comment didn't influence the events that unfolded here.

[lc_461]

I really hope that this starts to result in a change in public opinion on the state border closures. Gold Coast Hospital has always been the main referral centre for northern NSW as far south as Grafton I believe. In the same way that people as far south and east as Batemans Bay and Bega in NSW end up in Canberra Hospital if they require complex care.
Without knowing the details, it is possible that a miscommunication or misconception that 'QLD is closed' led to the decision that QLD is not an option. Or maybe it was OK for the patient to go, but not her spouse (how do you console your wife who just lost a child from your 14 days of hotel quarantine?). Therefore rather than follow the normal procedure of an urgent transfer to Brisbane (the nearest tertiary centre), they may have had to 'call around' so to speak. I'd speculate there were sadly many holes in Swiss cheese and burecratic bungles which ultimately led to this devastating outcome.
There have been plenty of news stories about QLD in recent times including people missing cancer treatments, not being able to accompany disabled children for medical appointments at the childrens hospital etc.
I'm not political but the comments last week "QLD hospitals are for queenslanders" was just pathetic... I didn't realise the state governments were funding Medicare!!!!

[KRviator]

Show me a state premier that is not following the advice of that states chief health/ medical officer.Here you go...
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/120x150/mark_mcgowan_300px_375px_54c624ea751f5cafde6a471fc28f5b2554c c60c1.png

Chief Health Officer Andrew Robertson conceded there was little public health justification for keeping the border closed to South Australia, the Northern Territory, Queensland, the ACT and Tasmania, which had eliminated community spread.Source (https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/less-than-one-per-cent-wa-s-chief-health-officer-under-pressure-to-explain-border-closure-during-palmer-trial-20200728-p55g3x.html)Dr Robertson, in his report of 24 June 2020 expresses the opinion that ifthe border restrictions were removed, the liklihood of imporation of COVID-19 would be low. Pg 51. [216]
Dr Robertson states that, although the risk of disease re-introduction is very difficult to quantify, he would estimate it at less than 10%. However, the risk is not equal for all jurisdictions, with the major risk posed by Victoria. He considers the risk from jurisdictions other than Victoria is less than 1% Pg. 52 [217]

[TBM-Legend]

Let's reopen Port Arthur, Pentridge and Corowa

[dr dre]

There are currently many knowledge gaps in this unfortunate story; I'm absolutely not downplaying the significance of this at all.

Most of the information seems to have come from a call in to a talkback radio station from the patient's father. It's a sad situation but some things aren't so accurate. For instance it would not have taken 16 hours for a medevac flight to Sydney to be arranged in an emergency case.

How, and at what stage, was the quarantine exemption requested (prior to the emergency?

It wasn't. Clinicians from RPA in Sydney were consulted (https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/queensland-is-compassionate-premier-insists-after-unborn-baby-s-death-20200828-p55q7e.html) and the decision was made to do the surgery in Sydney so no need to apply for a quarantine exemption (they would not have needed anyway because it was an emergency case)

Did NSW Health try and take the patient to Qld - why not?

It won't be known for privacy reasons but that must have been the assessment of local medical staff at the time.

Did the patient go through the correct avenues (at the right time) to get taken to Brisbane?

They wouldn't have needed too, because it was an emergency case no quarantine restrictions (as confirmed by the Qld Chief Health Officer). But Qld Health have also confirmed no request was sought from the patient.

It's a sad situation but there is nothing in this story that was the fault of any government for instituting border restrictions (which do not apply if it is an emergency medical case). It has been misrepresented by the media, and seized upon by those looking for a political angle.


Without knowing the details, it is possible that a miscommunication or misconception that 'QLD is closed' led to the decision that QLD is not an option.

It's been known that essential medical care is exempt from border restrictions when the restrictions were instituted. I'm sure the medical staff in NSW close to Qld know far more about this than the posters on this forum.

My guess is they made an assessment that the situation was not critical enough to warrant a medevac so a lower priority transfer was arranged. Unfortunately the situation deteriorated after the patient made it to Sydney.

[Xeptu]

You guys can stop blaming our premiers for closed borders, they are doing what we the citizens of the state (83%) want them to do and that's close the borders quarantine the infected.
Medical advice has nothing to do with our borders, we have listened to the arguments and conclude it's still high risk because we know the remaining 17% won't help contain the pandemic, they don't give a ****, if your 17% infects our 17% our state will fall just the same as Victoria.
Before we agree to open our borders one of two things must happen, a vaccine or a quick test similar to the lick drug test that can identify an infected person within minutes. That will change how we manage the virus and our borders.
About Canberra and funding. The states fund Canberra by way of taxes, Canberra doesn't produce anything it's a cost and good at borrowing money that the states have to pay for.

The Good news.
The vaccine developed in South Australia is going well and exceeds expectations.
What we know
It works
What we don't know
For how long it will work, it must be good for at least 9 months and ideally 12 months.
The vaccines efficacy. No vaccine is 100% effective, (they don't work for everyone) but must be in the high 90's%
Whether or not there are any health risks as a consequence of the vaccine.

The vaccine should be ready for production by April 2021, provided it passes all the required tests. It will still take 12 months to distribute and vaccinate most of the population.

From what I understand, I would anticipate a change in border controls by mid 2021, most likely (hopefully) due to a quick test becoming available. everyone is working on it.

Finally; no-one wants the borders closed any longer than necessary, that said and as it applies to the Airlines, no-one is rushing off on holidays when the border opens either
One shouldn't have the expectation that once the borders are open domestic travel will return to 100%, there will still be a way to go for international travel including cruising.

[Ragnor]

This tragedy will get messy as more is revealed. Those words spoken by Anastasia last week regarding QLD hospitals are for QLD people have come back to haunt her.Mum told to head south: doctorEXCLUSIVENATASHA ROBINSON
https://theaustralian.smedia.com.au/HTML5/get/NCAUS-2020-08-29/image.ashx?kind=block&href=NCAUS%2F2020%2F08%2F29&id=Pc0011800&ext=.jpg&ts=20200828162656NSW doctors treating a pregnant woman whose twin babies needed urgent surgery claim senior clinicians at Queensland’s Mater Hospital told them that “given the political situation” of border closures the mother should be transported 750km south to Sydney rather than be operated on in Brisbane.

A political row over border closures has gained intensity after it emerged that one of the twin girls carried by Ballina mother Kimberley Brown died after intrauterine surgery performed by doctors at the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney.

On August 13, an obstetrician at Lismore Base Hospital in northern NSW spoke with the director of maternal fetal medicine at the Mater Hospital and discussed Ms Brown’s urgent need for surgery. Lismore paediatrician Chris Ingall, who sits on the executive of the medical staff council at Lismore Base Hospital and has spoken directly with Ms Brown’s treating obstetricians, said the case was agreed by all clinicians to be urgent.

“The Mater Hospital agreed it was an urgent case but they said given the political situation the woman needed to be sent to Sydney,” Dr Ingall said.

Mater denies the claim. “We didn’t deny access and always were happy to provide care if RPA weren’t able to do so,” a spokesperson said.

Patients requiring emergency medical care are allowed to be treated in Queensland hospitals despite the border closure, but Dr Ingall said that in practice, doctors were facing bureaucratic barriers to getting patients urgent care.

“We at this point here are totally bamboozled by the answers we’re getting from both the governments and also the hospitals,” Dr Ingall said. “Because we need to get a double tick. We need to get a tick on both the bureaucratic and political masters and also the health administrators that cases are an emergency. So we’ve got no way of telling what is going to happen.”

The Northern NSW Local Health District said surgery in Brisbane would not have been a feasible option because Ms Brown would have been required to quarantine in Queensland for 14 days before having surgery.

Queensland Health says, however, that emergency cases receive urgent care. It’s unclear whether Ms Brown’s case qualified as an emergency despite doctors on both sides of the border agreeing the situation was urgent.

“While the preferred location for the family to give birth was at a hospital in Brisbane, under the Queensland Border Direction at the time, the woman and her partner would have had to quarantine in a government hotel for 14 days, at their own expense, prior the procedure,” said Northern NSW Local Health District chief executive Wayne Jones.”

Ms Brown’s babies, which at the time were 24 weeks’ gestation, were affected by twin-to-twin transfusion syndrome, in which twins share one placenta and the blood flow of one baby is channelled through the other. Ms Brown required highly specialised intra-uterine surgery that could only be performed in Sydney or Brisbane.

“The twin that’s giving blood to the other twin doesn’t grow as well. So that’s what was happening here and it was being closely monitored,” Dr Ingall said.

“But it got to a point where the smaller twin was in jeopardy. And the surgery requires actually in utero surgery to stop the twin-totwin transfusion from occurring.”

Ms Brown and her husband Scott remain in Sydney as doctors monitor the progress of the surviving twin. Ms Brown’s father, Allan Watt, told The Weekend Australian he had “done nothing but cry for the last 24 hours”.

“The other bub is struggling along and they want to keep her in the womb until she’s 28 weeks,” he said. “If they had both been at 28 weeks there would have been a fair chance of saving the other bub, but she was just too young to be born.”

Mr Watt, who is in Ballina while his wife and daughter are in Sydney, said their family had been “divided” by border closures and travel restrictions. Despite the Queensland health department saying exemptions were not necessary in emergency cases, it is understood the family was told that a medical exemption was needed for Ms Brown to cross the border.

“They took the option to go to Sydney because it would take too long to get an exemption,” Mr Watt said.

Mr Watt said his daughter waited at Lismore Base Hospital for 16 hours before she was flown by air ambulance to RPA to undergo emergency surgery. Mr Brown took a Jetstar flight to Sydney and arrived there 10 hours before an air retrieval flight carrying his wife landed at 1am.

Dr Ingall said it was not possible to determine whether Ms Brown’s baby would have survived if she had received surgery sooner in Brisbane. “It is possible that if she’d been quickly transferred to Brisbane, she may have had a better outcome. That’s a possibility.”

[Stickshift3000]

From what I understand, I would anticipate a change in border controls by mid 2021, most likely (hopefully) due to a quick test becoming available. everyone is working on it.

That timeframe seems realistic.

This Aussie company has developed a rapid 15-minute test, it's around 6-9 months away due to patient trials and regulatory approval:

https://www.anteotech.com/covid-19/

[Bend alot]

Or maybe it was OK for the patient to go, but not her spouse (how do you console your wife who just lost a child from your 14 days of hotel quarantine?).


I'm not political but the comments last week "QLD hospitals are for queenslanders" was just pathetic... I didn't realise the state governments were funding Medicare!!!!
A recent SBS show on migration to Australia had partner visa application that had the couple separated in different countries for 4 years, race off to the bathroom to overdose after the visa was refused. Luckily the film crew reacted quickly. These applications are very hash and often have long periods of separation of families - the government know this and are happy with it being normal.

As for hospital funding - Public hospitals are funded by the state, territory and Australian governments, and managed by state and territory governments.

Almost 68% of total health expenditure during 2013–14 was funded by governments, with the Australian Government contributing 41% and state and territory governments nearly 27%.

But yes her comment was pathetic.

[currawong]

KRviator -

Why not quote the rest of the article that you link?

"Asked by Commonwealth Solicitor-General Stephen Donaghue QC if his advice to keep the border closed was based on an assumption he had to work on and all-or-nothing approach, Dr Robertson agreed "

“But the other risk is that you would then become dependent on the decisions of another state for them opening their borders, so if they opened their borders, then people could pass through the state into your state without restriction.”

Despite the small risk, his advise is to remain closed.

[Turnleft080]

The only reason why you would close a border is not allow the clingons attack you and annihilate the whole human race.
I do believe though we have homo sapiens on each side of the border of the same species.
Covid is not as bad as Clingons. Clingons will kill all 26 million of us. Covid will only kill a minuscule of people with serious underlying
conditions. The only other reason to close a border is to catch a criminal on the run.

[Bend alot]

In June 2019 14.7% of all Australian Workers were aged between 55 -64 years, another 4.7% were over 65 years - almost 20% of the work force.

Healthcare is one of the largest industries with an older workforce.

Protecting the vulnerable, opening up and just living with it - would be an interesting project - lots of lost talent.

https://www.aigrouptalent.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Ai-Group-factsheet-older-workforce-2019.pdf

[Bend alot]

Covid will only kill a minuscule of people with serious underlying
conditions.
Several groups of Australians are at higher risk than the general population of being infected with COVID-19 and a higher risk than the general population of developing severe symptoms once infected.
* Older Australians: starting at age 60, there is an increasing risk of disease , and this risk increases with age. The highest risk of serious illness and death is in people older than 80.

* People with compromised immune systems and/or existing chronic health conditions: these existing conditions, like diabetes, heart disease, lung disease, and autoimmune conditions. can make it harder for peoples's immune systems to fight the virus.

* Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are at risk because of the higher rate of conditions in these populations.

* People living in group residential settings such as detention facilities and aged care facilities, where infections can spread quickly.

https://ama.com.au/article/latest-information-covid-19

In 2016 - 21.4% of the population were 60 or over (and growing).

[Xeptu]

The only reason why you would close a border is not allow the clingons attack you and annihilate the whole human race.
I do believe though we have homo sapiens on each side of the border of the same species.
Covid is not as bad as Clingons. Clingons will kill all 26 million of us. Covid will only kill a minuscule of people with serious underlying
conditions. The only other reason to close a border is to catch a criminal on the run.

Turnleft my old mate, how many times do I have to tell you it's not about dying. If we lost the number of medical staff you have, that would collapse our entire health system and unlike us you wouldn't be able to send anyone to help. Not that there are too many putting their hands up for that.

[Turnleft080]

Bend a lot, what your saying in last two posts is pretty much what I said in #776.
80% of us can get working now. 20% lockdown.
Here is another thing about borders. If every state/territory registered say 20 cases each then we are all on a level playing field.
What difference does it make. The only difference is if the aliens attack. Then all the states would then work together. Far fetched yeah but the principle
is interesting. Funny that.

[Turnleft080]

Turnleft my old mate, how many times do I have to tell you it's not about dying. If we lost the number of medical staff you have, that would collapse our entire health system and unlike us you wouldn't be able to send anyone to help. Not that there are too many putting their hands up for that.
Ah ha Xeptu my old mate. The health system has already collapsed. Read in an article 50% not bothering to go to GPs/hospitals to do check ups on heart/cancer other conditions.
Apparently heart disease and cancer have fallen off the map. Your saying April for a Covid vax. That's when their will be a spike with all other diseases.
Still think clingons are a greater threat.

[currawong]

The problem with that is that 20 cases can become 100 cases literally overnight. See definition of "exponential".

A national framework defining a "hotspot " may go some way to helping the situation, but then the problem becomes one of enforcement.

Case in point with VIC.

Toughest and earliest but let down by enforcement of said measures.

Personally, I'm all for using the same measures as Taiwan.

But the time to move on that was Dec.31 2019, like Taiwan.

[Bend alot]

Bend a lot, what your saying in last two posts is pretty much what I said in #776.
80% of us can get working now. 20% lockdown.
Here is another thing about borders. If every state/territory registered say 20 cases each then we are all on a level playing field.
What difference does it make. The only difference is if the aliens attack. Then all the states would then work together. Far fetched yeah but the principle
is interesting. Funny that.
No quite - that is just 20% of the work force not 20% of the population. (non workers and workers under 60 with health conditions,severe obesity etc diabetes is 1.25 million people alone up to 54 years old)

They not only need protection if they were singled out for "lockdown" but they also need to be replaced in the workforce.

2016 in the medical workforce 33.7% males and 17.8% females were 55 years or older.

A quick look across the top end of Australia finds 2 hospitals with ICU beds, both with similar numbers of patients and bed numbers in 2018/19. Cairns reported being over capacity, so Darwin would be similar. Both this time of year attract lots of tourists. Excepting 20 cases in the North would make a level playing field - does not pass the pub test.

I am interested in how your idea of "isolating the vulnerable" would actually entail such as what isolation would consist of, how services are supplied, what the compensation would look like (or the age discrimination lawsuits from Clive, Gina & Twiggy) given you can not discriminate by age in the workplace. Also how the hospitals would hope with a second/third wave as people other than vulnerable still get sick with this.

Currently in many places (in Australia) travel is possible even if a 2 week isolation or quarantine is required (not always the case) then movement is pretty normal - should there never be a vaccine how long would your age lock-down last indefinite? Given retirement age is 66 and vulnerable age starts at 60, not a lot of incentive for people near 50 to work - Sell the house, the cars, the kids and live it up before lock-down.

[Bend alot]

Well this is responsible of people!

On Friday, NSW Health data revealed half of those who have tested positive took three days to self-isolate.

[Xeptu]

The only other reason to close a border is to catch a criminal on the run.

Well there you go, the 17% that don't give a **** about infecting other people and are happy to lie, cheat, abscond, cross a state border and attempt to disappear into the community are exactly that. Criminals on the run.

[Buttscratcher]

......and then everyone in Melbourne went to the friggin beach!

Muppets!

[slats11]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html

This is interesting.

The PCR tests can be extremely sensitive at detecting COVID virus. So sensitive they can test sewage to see if there are infected people in a city.

The PCR amplifies the viral RNA with each cycle. You can run as many cycles as you want in order to crank up the sensitivity. The fewer cycles required to turn positive, the more virus on the swab. The more cycles required to turn positive, the less virus on the swab.

Looks like no one in USA has agreed how many cycles constituted a real positive (who may get sick and may infect others) from someone with minuscule traces of virus that pose zero risk.

Most experts suggest the test should be limited to 30 cycles.

But most tests do 40 cycles.

If you stopped after 30 cycles and called the test negative, 90 % of current positive results would be negative. So USA would have 4000 meaningful infections each day rather than 45,000 cases.

This helps explain all the asymptomatic cases - the test is repeated until it turns positive, even though most of these positives won’t get sick.

It also means we have been quarantining and isolating many people who are not going to get sick and who won’t infect others.

If China are still testing, maybe they have set a much lower cycle threshold. And thats why numbers are way down there.

[currawong]

China does not count positives tests that remain asymptomatic.

"The tally of confirmed cases was further suppressed, with the Government initially not including clinical diagnoses and later excluding people who test positive without symptoms.

But public pressure helped forced China's National Health Commission to rectify those omissions, even though it continues to exclude asymptomatic cases from the headline daily figure of cases."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-30/china-enjoys-beer-festival-during-coronavirus-recovery/12594828

[Buster Hyman]

......and then everyone in Melbourne went to the friggin beach!

Muppets!
Did they? News to me, I stayed home all weekend. Lots of my neighbors were home as well so clearly, not everyone.:hmm:

[nonsense]

......and then everyone in Melbourne went to the friggin beach!
Muppets!
Living near the beach, I drive along Beach Road to go shopping.
And yes, most afternoons the bike path and walking track along the beach are crowded while the shopping centre is deserted.

[Turnleft080]

......and then everyone in Melbourne went to the friggin beach!

Muppets!

Rather be a muppet than a Dan Andrews puppet.

[Ragnor]

The opportunity to suppress this virus with social distancing, limiting numbers in groups etc has passed. We had the winter to achieve this and now that the warmer months are coming people will congregate in the masses in the outdoors which could possibly make this virus run out of control up and down the eastern states. I have been informed off a reliable source that the NSW and VIC border will be closed until February so it is time to plan for the future.

The real question that needs to be answered by these premieres that continue to play god for political gain- What is the plan to generate jobs and what is the economic road map? the borders are closed we don't need to hear that every press conference anymore. I want to hear a plan for real action now what are you going to do?!

[Turnleft080]

Well there you go, the 17% that don't give a **** about infecting other people and are happy to lie, cheat, abscond, cross a state border and attempt to disappear into the community are exactly that. Criminals on the run.

I was wondering when you would comment on my criminals on the run quote. I set it up so you would answer it with 17% couldn't give a toss, meaning 83% are in favour of lockdowns.
How about we take away their toy? Jobkeeper.
Then 83% would be saying "OPEN THOSE BLOODY BORDERS I GOT A FAMILY TO FEED".
State premiers love power, they eat it night and day. They even supplement with vitamin P.

[KRviator]

You guys can stop blaming our premiers for closed borders, they are doing what we the citizens of the state (83%) want them to do and that's close the borders quarantine the infected.
Medical advice has nothing to do with our borders, we have listened to the arguments and conclude it's still high risk because we know the remaining 17% won't help contain the pandemic, they don't give a ****, if your 17% infects our 17% our state will fall just the same as Victoria.
Before we agree to open our borders one of two things must happen, a vaccine or a quick test similar to the lick drug test that can identify an infected person within minutes.And what do you foresee happening if neither of those things come to fruition? Just keep the WA border closed for all eternity because that's what 2.2M people want? What about the other 23M Australian citizens? You don't think they should have a say in being able to enter WA? WA residents need to realise they are not their own country - even if they'd like to be - and the Constitution was framed so as to give protection to an individual citizen from protection against a State singling out their residence as grounds for discrimination. Same for trade & commerce.

[Turnleft080]

The opportunity to suppress this virus with social distancing, limiting numbers in groups etc has passed. We had the winter to achieve this and now that the warmer months are coming people will congregate in the masses in the outdoors which could possibly make this virus run out of control up and down the eastern states. I have been informed off a reliable source that the NSW and VIC border will be closed until February so it is time to plan for the future.

The real question that needs to be answered by these premieres that continue to play god for political gain- What is the plan to generate jobs and what is the economic road map? the borders are closed we don't need to hear that every press conference anymore. I want to hear a plan for real action now what are you going to do?!

Funnily enough remember the last few days of last summer when Bondi and Manly beaches were packed lapping up good sun (you know what UVA/UVB does to covid as I expressed before) their was
not one case of transmission, until the Sea Princess docked.
Funnily enough the European summer is about to end and cases flatlined because of the warmth. France, Italy, Germany, Spain their cases will now increase coming into winter. Hope they don't though.
Same can be said for North America. Texas & Florida I can't explain though. US news reports suggest that walking in and out of air condition rooms could be a factor.
From the graphs thus far I find Covid spreads more easily in winter than in summer.

As far as jobs and economic road map, I think Dan will talk to the private sector today. Details to come.

[Xeptu]

I was wondering when you would comment on my criminals on the run quote. I set it up so you would answer it with 17% couldn't give a toss, meaning 83% are in favour of lockdowns.
How about we take away their toy? Jobkeeper.
Then 83% would be saying "OPEN THOSE BLOODY BORDERS I GOT A FAMILY TO FEED".
State premiers love power, they eat it night and day. They even supplement with vitamin P.

Well actually no we won't. The economy in our state is pretty much back to normal. Our covid wards are empty and our reserve staff waiting to be called are still waiting, hopefully we won't need to call upon them. The only ones on jobkeeper are about half the state based airline staff and a significant number of the tourism industry. Otherwise you would'nt know there's a crisis going on. It's really important to us to keep covid out here, we can't depend upon any other state for our essential services, nor can we access them. We are pretty much self contained. We produce everything we need locally To allow covid in would collapse our health system and most likely our essential services as well. we really don't want to end up like Victoria and possibly NSW as well.
The only thing we can't do is travel outside of our state, unless you want to mandatory quarantine at your own expense when you return. We can wait. It's not a big ask. when the quick test arrives we will review our position.

[blubak]

......and then everyone in Melbourne went to the friggin beach!

Muppets!
Same applies to Sydney!,check out the pics of coogee beach on sunday.
Im sure theres plenty of people on the beaches in every state when the sun is out.

[Xeptu]

And what do you foresee happening if neither of those things come to fruition? Just keep the WA border closed for all eternity because that's what 2.2M people want? What about the other 23M Australian citizens? You don't think they should have a say in being able to enter WA? WA residents need to realise they are not their own country - even if they'd like to be - and the Constitution was framed so as to give protection to an individual citizen from protection against a State singling out their residence as grounds for discrimination. Same for trade & commerce.

Well both of those things will happen, you just need to be patient. Being an Airline discussion it comes as no surprise you think the way you do. A pandemic hasn't happened like this for 100 years, Airlines are the first effected and the last to recover when there's a crisis, an industry hazard. The last 30 years of growth in air travel hasn't happened before either, you have grown up with it, it's natural to think that is forever. Well nothing is forever, airlines will again be deeply impacted by something like this, all it would take is an armed conflict to break out between China and the USA, that would be even worse than a pandemic. One thing is for sure air travel will change one way or another eventually. It's just another issue we can't keep ignoring, like plastics in the ocean.

[Square Bear]

According to Federal Treasury data, five local governments — Exmouth, Shark Bay, Dundas, Augusta-Margaret River and Denmark — had 50 per cent or more businesses apply for the payment.

That was the highest number of all the States and Territories.

Closing the borders totally is a good idea,.....as long as you don’t live in those local Govt areas I suppose.

Always has been, and always will be...Western Australia and the rest of Australia. Probably keep the borders closed even when the pandemic is over. Now all they need is their own military, customs, consular, currency, taxation, education welfare system.etc etc

[Stickshift3000]

According to Federal Treasury data, five local governments — Exmouth, Shark Bay, Dundas, Augusta-Margaret River and Denmark — had 50 per cent or more businesses apply for the payment.

That was the highest number of all the States and Territories.

I'm not surprised. The majority of their tourism income traditionally comes from international and eastern state visitors.

Always has been, and always will be...Western Australia and the rest of Australia. Probably keep the borders closed even when the pandemic is over. Now all they need is their own military, customs, consular, currency, taxation, education welfare system.etc etc

Just like a bigger version of the Principality of Hutt River! :bored:

[Chris2303]

Three months since the OP and borders, Tasman included, are still locked up.

[Xeptu]

According to Federal Treasury data, five local governments — Exmouth, Shark Bay, Dundas, Augusta-Margaret River and Denmark — had 50 per cent or more businesses apply for the payment.

That was the highest number of all the States and Territories.

Closing the borders totally is a good idea,.....as long as you don’t live in those local Govt areas I suppose.

Always has been, and always will be...Western Australia and the rest of Australia. Probably keep the borders closed even when the pandemic is over. Now all they need is their own military, customs, consular, currency, taxation, education welfare system.etc etc

Those businesses employ very few people, it's not a major drain. It's not like a manufacturing plant that employs hundreds.

As for our military, well special ops and half the navy is based here, :) just saying

[KRviator]

Well both of those things will happen, you just need to be patient. Being an Airline discussion it comes as no surprise you think the way you do. A pandemic hasn't happened like this for 100 years, Airlines are the first effected and the last to recover when there's a crisis, an industry hazard. The last 30 years of growth in air travel hasn't happened before either, you have grown up with it, it's natural to think that is forever. Well nothing is forever, airlines will again be deeply impacted by something like this, all it would take is an armed conflict to break out between China and the USA, that would be even worse than a pandemic. One thing is for sure air travel will change one way or another eventually. It's just another issue we can't keep ignoring, like plastics in the ocean.Conveniently didn't answer the question though.

"A vaccine will come, I promise". Standard politician speak.

So I ask again, what do you foresee as happening if a vaccine (or quick test as you said) doesn't become available? Should the desire of those 2.2M people in WA outweigh the wishes - and the constitutional right to not be penalised based on their state of residence - of the other 23 million Australian citizens to keep the WA border closed?

I think the way I do because I look at the big picture. A statistical human live in Australia is valued at $4.6M AUD ($4.2M 2014 adjusted for inflation) Source (https://www.pmc.gov.au/sites/default/files/publications/Value_of_Statistical_Life_guidance_note.pdf). The political response to this pandemic, including border closures, lockdowns, etc, has seen a $90 billion turnaround in the budget, from a projected $5B surplus to an $85B deficit and it isn't stopping there. The statistical value of that is nearly 20,000 lives saved, true. But that is only the current cost - not the costs going forwards which I reckon would be an order of magnitude higher. To what end? We lost more people from the common flu last year, and much more again in 2017. Hell, lung cancer kills nearly 9,000 people every year - yet Governments refuse to ban tobacco!

The response to this pandemic needs to be proportional and reasonable, yet a border closure while effective yes, is not the be-all and end-all, for the judge in the recent Palmer v WA trial found other reasonable alternatives exist to a hard border closure. Mandatory hotel quarantine has been found - legally - to present no increase in risk to the current border closure. In WA's case, though, the issue is one of capacity.

[Ragnor]

WA can stay closed, I would vote to turn off the Fed money they can look after themself. QLD premier just saying now that borders will remain closed she will not be moved she said she won’t worry about the economy until the health of QLD is assured. So she does not give any economic road map out of this or understand that one I needed not even entertaining a balance of learning to live with it. QLD VIC and TAS are really dragging their feet in the sand with this.

I have a genuine fear of what our great country will look like this time next year Aviation aside which by the looks will not be the same by density and by what carriers we have.

[Xeptu]

[QUOTE=KRviator;10874556]Conveniently didn't answer the question though.

"A vaccine will come, I promise". Standard politician speak.

So I ask again, what do you foresee as happening if a vaccine (or quick test as you said) doesn't become available? Should the desire of those 2.2M people in WA outweigh the wishes - and the constitutional right to not be penalised based on their state of residence - of the other 23 million Australian citizens to keep the WA border closed?[QUOTE]

Then I'll be bold and answer the question. We would continue doing what we are doing, keep the borders closed and find a way to allow easier access to the state without risking exposure to general population, something like inbound services into a central hub like merredin and setup a screening and quarantine operation before allowing travellers to continue into the state. I'm sure it won't come to that though.

[Ragnor]

Xeptu who will want to come to Australia to have to isolate on a random island and when our own citizens can’t travel domestically?

[Xeptu]

WA can stay closed, I would vote to turn off the Fed money they can look after themself. QLD premier just saying now that borders will remain closed she will not be moved she said she won’t worry about the economy until the health of QLD is assured. So she does not give any economic road map out of this or understand that one I needed not even entertaining a balance of learning to live with it. QLD VIC and TAS are really dragging their feet in the sand with this.

I have a genuine fear of what our great country will look like this time next year Aviation aside which by the looks will not be the same by density and by what carriers we have.

We would'nt have any objection to cutting off federal funding all together if it comes to that, so long as you don't expect us to contribute to it either.

[Xeptu]

Xeptu who will want to come to Australia to have to isolate on a random island and when our own citizens can’t travel domestically?

Unless they plan to stay awhile, probably not many, but then International visitors are out of the question for any state at this point in time.

[Bend alot]

According to Federal Treasury data, five local governments — Exmouth, Shark Bay, Dundas, Augusta-Margaret River and Denmark — had 50 per cent or more businesses apply for the payment.

That was the highest number of all the States and Territories.

Closing the borders totally is a good idea,.....as long as you don’t live in those local Govt areas I suppose.

Always has been, and always will be...Western Australia and the rest of Australia. Probably keep the borders closed even when the pandemic is over. Now all they need is their own military, customs, consular, currency, taxation, education welfare system.etc etc
Dundas is an interesting one!
It is great to see % used to make a point! 50% businesses sounds a lot, but the total population of all these places is only around 20,000 people ( I used a near replacement for Dundas). As mentioned tourism is a big part to these places as is backpacker labour.

Denmark had a population of 2,558; however, the population can be several times the base population during tourist seasons.

Denham is the administrative town for the Shire of Shark Bay (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shire_of_Shark_Bay), Western Australia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Australia). At the 2016 census (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Australian_census), Denham had a population of 754. Denham survives as the gateway for the tourists who come to see the dolphins at Monkey Mia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_Mia),

The Shire of Augusta Margaret River had a population of over 14,000 at the 2016 Census (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Australia_Census), about half of whom live in the towns of Margaret River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_River,_Western_Australia) and Augusta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusta,_Western_Australia). Margaret River is a small town south of Perth in western Australia, known for its craft breweries, boutiques and surrounding wineries. Beaches and surf breaks line the nearby coast, whose waters host migratory whales.

Dundas is the name of an abandoned town in the Goldfields-Esperance Region (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfields-Esperance) of Western Australia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Australia). The town is located about 22 kilometres (14 mi) south of Norseman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norseman,_Western_Australia). Norseman is a town located in the Goldfields-Esperance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfields-Esperance) region of Western Australia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Australia) along the Coolgardie-Esperance Highway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolgardie-Esperance_Highway), and the last major town in Western Australia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Australia) before the South Australian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Australia) border 720 kilometres to the east. At the 2016 census (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_in_Australia#2016), Norseman had a population of almost 600.

Exmouth is a small resort town on Western Australia’s North West Cape. It’s a gateway to nearby Ningaloo Marine Park with its coral reefs, colourful fish and migratory whale sharks. Nowadays, the town relies more on tourism than the US military station for its existence. At the 2016 census (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Australian_census), Exmouth had a population of 2,486. At the height of the tourist season, the population swells to 6,000.

[Xeptu]

Nothing has changed for the moron xeptu. Probably gets government money in the bank every fortnight so doesn’t care.

You do know that WA stands for Western AUSTRALIA right? You want to go it alone, then you should lose all privileges and rights that come with being Australian. Because at the moment, you aren’t.

How about you pull your head in, stop your whining and fix the problem in your own state, That way the borders can be opened and you won't need to whine about the unaffected states counter measures to your problem.

[dr dre]

According to Federal Treasury data, five local governments — Exmouth, Shark Bay, Dundas, Augusta-Margaret River and Denmark — had 50 per cent or more businesses apply for the payment.

That was the highest number of all the States and Territories.

Closing the borders totally is a good idea,.....as long as you don’t live in those local Govt areas I suppose.



Do you have a link to that data? I suspect the 50% may have come from JK applications in April/May, when even intrastate travel was restricted prior to Easter. After those restrictions were lifted it seems intrastate tourism is booming and places like Exmouth and Broome are doing quite well.

It wouldn’t be much of a stretch to say WA would have the lowest Jobkeeper uptake rate now of any state, and Victoria the highest.

[blubak]

Those businesses employ very few people, it's not a major drain. It's not like a manufacturing plant that employs hundreds.

As for our military, well special ops and half the navy is based here, :) just saying
Be interesting to actually hear what the owners of these businesses think about it not being a major drain & also the people who work in them.
Wont be a concern of course to a premier still sitting in his luxury residence,still raking in his normal salary & eligible for a life long taxpayer funded pension.
I doubt many small business owners are happy to be told theyre not important.

[Xeptu]

unaffected because you dont pull your weight.
Never have. My head is out because dumbasses like you are actively promoting and encouraging idiots like Palaszczuk and McGowan to continue with CCP like measures. You’ve basically given the finger to the rest of Australia.
unaffected...so you’d have no idea of the effect this is having on people. You just sit there sucking up taxpayer money.

dont even get me started about the sh$t you go an about on the QF thread. No knowledge, no idea, just an armchair expert with nothing better to do. Use your retirement to go and sail a boat or something. The aviation world doesn’t need your constant gloating and negativity.

4 cases in NSW today. All traced. What do you define as ‘under control’...zero transmission for 2 cycles? Not going to happen. Look at NZ, QLD, even your own WA. Tracing, targeted lockdowns/isolation and testing is the best way.

still a good chance Palmer will win...the high court considers the economic and social impacts, rather than just the health ones. Even the federal court deemed some states as ‘low risk’. There is no reason at all not to be open to those states.

Whatever! If it makes you feel better making it personal, you fill your boots. I really don't mind.

[Buster Hyman]

How about you pull your head in, stop your whining and fix the problem in your own state, That way the borders can be opened and you won't need to whine about the unaffected states counter measures to your problem.
Perhaps Victoria could withhold it's GST collection to do that, especially if Chairman Dan's little CCP deal gets the chop. Be interesting if a Border closure also affected the flow of cash...

[goodonyamate]

Whatever! If it makes you feel better making it personal, you fill your boots. I really don't mind.

no it doesn’t. Does it make you feel better getting on here and telling everyone we have no idea what’s coming and we’ll be lucky if we aren’t made redundant etc etc? You do t think that’s personal? So get off your high horse. You’ve been making it personal all along.

[Xeptu]

no it doesn’t. Does it make you feel better getting on here and telling everyone we have no idea what’s coming and we’ll be lucky if we aren’t made redundant etc etc? You do t think that’s personal? So get off your high horse. You’ve been making it personal all along.

Wrong Thread, different purpose and in any case what you read isn't necessarily what was meant.

[BuzzBox]

unaffected because you dont pull your weight.
Never have...You just sit there sucking up taxpayer money.

That statement is so typical of the ill-informed nonsense espoused by the 'wise men of the East'. Perhaps you could tell us which State contributes the most to Australia's export economy? I'll give you a little hint; it's not NSW or Victoria...

[goodonyamate]

That statement is so typical of the ill-informed nonsense espoused by the 'wise men of the East'. Perhaps you could tell us which State contributes the most to Australia's export economy? I'll give you a little hint; it's not NSW or Victoria...

my comment was in relation to the repatriation of Australians. Should have specified.

[KRviator]

That statement is so typical of the ill-informed nonsense espoused by the 'wise men of the East'. Perhaps you could tell us which State contributes the most to Australia's export economy? I'll give you a little hint; it's not NSW or Victoria...And there it is. Australia's export economy. Not Western Australia's economy. Australia's economy. All fine and good to be part of the Federation when they want it to be, but the instant something doesn't go their way, "Phuck you Jack, I'm alright!"

[goodonyamate]

And there it is. Australia's export economy. Not Western Australia's economy. Australia's economy. All fine and good to be part of the Federation when they want it to be, but the instant something doesn't go their way, "Phuck you Jack, I'm alright!"


Spot on. AUSTRALIA.

there is no reason WA, SA, TAS, NT can’t have full and free movement. Too soon to call on NSW and QLD. Vic...obvious.

[Xeptu]

my comment was in relation to the repatriation of Australians. Should have specified.

Nope, after careful review of your previous few posts, it pretty much looks directed at me personally.

[dr dre]

unaffected because you dont pull your weight.
Never have. My head is out because dumbasses like you are actively promoting and encouraging idiots like Palaszczuk and McGowan to continue with CCP like measures. You’ve basically given the finger to the rest of Australia.


All the way through these borders restrictions of the last few months I’ve noticed how all those who oppose the restrictions limit their anger to the premiers of WA and Qld, but ignore the premiers of SA and Tasmania who have instituted similar or even tougher restrictions (Tasmania closed completely until December 1).

Makes me think a lot of the anger is based on political ideology.

[Ragnor]

We will find out October 31st what the residents of the sunshine state really think! Anastasia Cairns stunt this morning of 11 million for projects, just might not be enough when it was reported that QLD tourism industry slated to loose 2.2B by end of the year.

[goodonyamate]

All the way through these borders restrictions of the last few months I’ve noticed how all those who oppose the restrictions limit their anger to the premiers of WA and Qld, but ignore the premiers of SA and Tasmania who have instituted similar or even tougher restrictions (Tasmania closed completely until December 1).

Makes me think a lot of the anger is based on political ideology.

they are equally as guilty. However, They have not put an endless timeline on their closures. McGowan has, and Palaszczuk also has. Statements like ‘in line with medical advice’ are meaningless, as the medical advice differs between federal and state level.

I still maintain it’s too early to call on QLD, NSW and VIC. The rest of the states and territories should be open to each other. Locking out people from other states with zero or very few cases is nothing more than political.

[Xeptu]

We will find out October 31st what the residents of the sunshine state really think! Anastasia Cairns stunt this morning of 11 million for projects, just might not be enough when it was reported that QLD tourism industry slated to loose 2.2B by end of the year.

just curious, do you think the opposition should it win government, open the borders, is this an opposition election platform.

[Bend alot]

All the way through these borders restrictions of the last few months I’ve noticed how all those who oppose the restrictions limit their anger to the premiers of WA and Qld, but ignore the premiers of SA and Tasmania who have instituted similar or even tougher restrictions (Tasmania closed completely until December 1).

Makes me think a lot of the anger is based on political ideology.
QLD, SA and NT have pretty similar restrictions.

Tasmania are continuing "travel restrictions" until Dec 1.

Non-Tasmanian residents, who are not classified as Essential Travellers (https://coronavirus.tas.gov.au/travellers-and-visitors/essential-travellers), are required to quarantine in government-designated accommodation.

https://coronavirus.tas.gov.au/travellers-and-visitors/coming-to-tasmania

I think this is a summary of travel in Australia. But my be errors pretty hard to work out* If you live in WA you can travel without quarantine/isolation to every state and territory except Tasmania that requires quarantine on entry . But not return to WA.


* If you live in SA you can travel without quarantine/isolation to NT, QLD.

Quarantine/isolation on return from Victoria, NSW and ACT.

Quarantine on entry into Tasmania.


* If you live in NT travel without quarantine/isolation to SA, QLD, NSW (except greater Sydney) and ACT.

Quarantine on arrival to Tasmania and on return from Greater Sydney and Victoria.


* If you live in QLD travel without quarantine/isolation to SA and NT.

Quarantine on arrival to Tasmania and on return from NSW, ACT and Victoria.


* If you live in NSW travel without quarantine/isolation to ACT.

Quarantine on arrival to Tasmania, SA and QLD and on return from , ACT and Victoria.

[LapSap]

Well actually no we won't. The economy in our state is pretty much back to normal. Our covid wards are empty and our reserve staff waiting to be called are still waiting, hopefully we won't need to call upon them. The only ones on jobkeeper are about half the state based airline staff and a significant number of the tourism industry. Otherwise you would'nt know there's a crisis going on. It's really important to us to keep covid out here, we can't depend upon any other state for our essential services, nor can we access them. We are pretty much self contained. We produce everything we need locally To allow covid in would collapse our health system and most likely our essential services as well. we really don't want to end up like Victoria and possibly NSW as well.
The only thing we can't do is travel outside of our state, unless you want to mandatory quarantine at your own expense when you return. We can wait. It's not a big ask. when the quick test arrives we will review our position.

As long as you realize it cuts both ways... Its not just up to you.
Don't be surprised when YOU are ready to travel, that the option may not be open to you.
I'll vote for that.

[Stickshift3000]

QLD, SA and NT have pretty similar restrictions.

Tasmania are continuing "travel restrictions" until Dec 1.

Non-Tasmanian residents, who are not classified as Essential Travellers (https://coronavirus.tas.gov.au/travellers-and-visitors/essential-travellers), are required to quarantine in government-designated accommodation.

https://coronavirus.tas.gov.au/travellers-and-visitors/coming-to-tasmania

I think this is a summary of travel in Australia. But my be errors pretty hard to work out* If you live in WA you can travel without quarantine/isolation to every state and territory except Tasmania that requires quarantine on entry . But not return to WA.


* If you live in SA you can travel without quarantine/isolation to NT, QLD.

Quarantine/isolation on return from Victoria, NSW and ACT.

Quarantine on entry into Tasmania.


* If you live in NT travel without quarantine/isolation to SA, QLD, NSW (except greater Sydney) and ACT.

Quarantine on arrival to Tasmania and on return from Greater Sydney and Victoria.


* If you live in QLD travel without quarantine/isolation to SA and NT.

Quarantine on arrival to Tasmania and on return from NSW, ACT and Victoria.


* If you live in NSW travel without quarantine/isolation to ACT.

Quarantine on arrival to Tasmania, SA and QLD and on return from , ACT and Victoria.

We'll take anyone down here in Vic - no conditions attached! :E

[Xeptu]

As long as you realize it cuts both ways... Its not just up to you.
Don't be surprised when YOU are ready to travel, that the option may not be open to you.
I'll vote for that.

I personally won't be travelling interstate for any reason before the borders are open, I understand and accept that. If I "MUST" travel interstate then I agree to accept those conditions and requirements expected of me and anyone else, both arriving in another state and upon my return. Is that what you meant.

[LapSap]

I personally won't be travelling interstate for any reason before the borders are open, I understand and accept that. If I "MUST" travel interstate then I agree to accept those conditions and requirements expected of me and anyone else, both arriving in another state and upon my return. Is that what you meant.

No, no, no.
You are much too presumptuous.
I mean regardless you “MUST” travel interstate, you won’t mind the rest of us saying, “sorry pal, you’re not going anywhere for the foreseeable- or indeed unforeseeable future.”?

Care to elaborate on what you would classify as “MUST”?

[Xeptu]

No, no, no.
You are much too presumptuous.
I mean regardless you “MUST” travel interstate, you won’t mind the rest of us saying, “sorry pal, you’re not going anywhere for the foreseeable- or indeed unforeseeable future.”?

I'm sorry, if you want a meaningful response you'll have to be clearer on what you mean by this statement.

[Xeptu]

Care to elaborate on what you would classify as “MUST”?

Whilst a State of Emergency exists, I would define "MUST" as to render assistance to another State or Party in need of assistance.

[Square Bear]

Dr De, as requested....

admittedly an ABC report, most others are behind a paywall, and I wasn’t going to Treasury to find the direct reference for you. ABC NEWS REPORT (https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj27_38r8brAhX0ILcAHSJ-DR8QFjAAegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc.net.au%2Fnews%2F2020-08-23%2Fregional-wa-records-high-jobkeeper-application-rates%2F12575752&usg=AOvVaw1WjymJLPinejYxGQGDd7oi)

Seems to me that some states (NSW about the only exception) are using the pandemic to either hide inefficiencies or promote agendas,

...take QLD, the Premier in her daily live news report says that the State has one Covid case today...and the press and citizen are hyperventilating, up iin arms..but no-one questions the fact that the State debt is close to a 100 Billion dollars in debt...DEFLECTION...QLD has destroyed its financial, but nothing to see here.

The WA Premier sticks to his guns about closing the borders to keep the disease out, but not that long ago he was spruiking that Interstate FIFO could bring their families over, settle in WA and financial assistance would be given.

Purpose to convince those from the Eastern States that even though you will live a zillion miles from your family and friends, WA is a great place to live. AGENDA....WA does not have to rely on FIFO.

And using a giant State Origin mentality to peruse those aims.

SAD really.

[KRviator]

The WA Premier sticks to his guns about closing the borders to keep the disease out, but not that long ago he was spruiking that Interstate FIFO could bring their families over, settle in WA and financial assistance would be given. Purpose to convince those from the Eastern States that even though you will live a zillion miles from your family and friends, WA is a great place to live. AGENDA....WA does not have to rely on FIFO..We briefly considered that "offer" - my employer did up a whole pack with draft figures etc - and we both wholeheartedly rejected it outright. We would be, literally, several tens of thousands of dollars worse off if we were to relocate to WA, and that is with the relocation assistance on offer. And that's not counting the hundreds of thousands of QF FF points we'd lose over years to come as well from not going back east. Oh, there's also the annoying little problem of being the other side of the country from everyone we know and care about. Having to find new paediatricians and other specialists but according to McGowan "Come to WA, here's $20K!". :yuk:

What that idiot doesn't realise about interstate FIFO is this: If enough WA residents did the bloody work, the big miners wouldn't NEED interstate FIFO! The simple fact is, they can't or won't do it, particularly in more highly specialised roles, which is why not only the big players, but even contractors will offer FIFO roles with fully-paid-for flights back to Sydney, Brisbane, etc. Kind of makes me wonder if that was the reason they excluded both FIFO Specialists and non-specialists from the Closing the Border direction amendment that was signed back in July...:mad:

[Ragnor]

There should be uproar across the NT about this. Borders closed means borders are closed.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12608080

[C441]

Here in Queensland I’m waiting for Annastacia to close the border between the suburbs south and west of Brisbane and those to the north and east using the same rationale that has been used to close the NSW/Qld border. Premier, if you let any of those contagious Covid clowns over to this side of the river we won’t vote for you! :rolleyes:

[Turnleft080]

Here in Queensland I’m waiting for Annastacia to close the border between the suburbs south and west of Brisbane and those to the north and east using the same rationale that has been used to close the NSW/Qld border. Premier, if you let any of those contagious Covid clowns over to this side of the river we won’t vote for you! :rolleyes:
Struth, I thought Marg Thatcher was bad.

[Bend alot]

There should be uproar across the NT about this. Borders closed means borders are closed.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12608080
NT border is not closed!

Scomo has closed international borders - NT is happy for visitors/workers from low COVID areas, as are some other states.

The link seems the Vanuatu government does not want it's citizens to leave its country mostly.

[Bend alot]

Here in Queensland I’m waiting for Annastacia to close the border between the suburbs south and west of Brisbane and those to the north and east using the same rationale that has been used to close the NSW/Qld border. Premier, if you let any of those contagious Covid clowns over to this side of the river we won’t vote for you! :rolleyes:
Containment lines is not a bad idea - best sort the LINES before it is required - so they are known.

[currawong]

Dr De, as requested....

admittedly an ABC report, most others are behind a paywall, and I wasn’t going to Treasury to find the direct reference for you. ABC NEW REPORT (https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjG97Oq9sTrAhVJxzgGHVkaBKoQFjADegQIBBAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Faustralianaccountantnetwork.com.au%2Fnews&usg=AOvVaw1WQ_PssZNq-Os4Id1GQmBT)

Seems to me that some states (NSW about the only exception) are using the pandemic to either hide inefficiencies or promote agendas,

...take QLD, the Premier in her daily live news report says that the State has one Covid case today...and the press and citizen are hyperventilating, up iin arms..but no-one questions the fact that the State debt is close to a 100 Billion dollars in debt...DEFLECTION...QLD has destroyed its financial, but nothing to see here.

The WA Premier sticks to his guns about closing the borders to keep the disease out, but not that long ago he was spruiking that Interstate FIFO could bring their families over, settle in WA and financial assistance would be given.

Purpose to convince those from the Eastern States that even though you will live a zillion miles from your family and friends, WA is a great place to live. AGENDA....WA does not have to rely on FIFO.

And using a giant State Origin mentality to peruse those aims.

SAD really.

Might want to fix that link up....

[baylover]

Relax, we are Australians, we will recover.

[White Knight]

Struth, I thought Marg Thatcher was bad.

She was never bad matey. But she was hard as nails and did what needed doing - with the unions, Scargill, the Argies in '82, helping to end the Cold War (it was the Soviets who christened her the Iron Lady after all) with Reagan and Gorbachov just for starters! Best PM we've ever had in the UK...

[Ragnor]

Relax, we are Australians, we will recover.


There is absolutely no doubt we will recover, I fear that the damage we are doing to our nation and its citizens are far worse than the virus itself.. That's my issue with the border closures they're not required and have certainly divided our nation. I thought we were Australian guess we are not.

[blubak]

We will find out October 31st what the residents of the sunshine state really think! Anastasia Cairns stunt this morning of 11 million for projects, just might not be enough when it was reported that QLD tourism industry slated to loose 2.2B by end of the year.
Thats all she can afford,hope all the tourism operators vote for her.

[601]

fruit pickers from Vanuatu to travel to the Northern Territory
Are these pickers coming into Oz so that the our unemployed do not miss out on their mango smoothie while eating their smashed avocado in the big smoke?

[Ragnor]

International borders are closed which me and no pickers even if Vanuatu allow them to. We can’t have our smashed mango and eat it also.

[zanthrus]

I am just ignoring the whole lot and travelling as required for work anywhere they send me.

[Green.Dot]

I wonder if any Victorian based airlines/aviation businesses might jump in on this class action?

DA and his incompetent Govt has cost many many jobs and loss of earnings for businesses both in Vic and elsewhere.

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/vic-class-action-233952091.html

[Stickshift3000]

Why stop at state border closures? I imagine there are some power-hungry municipal councils that might wish to close their border... :E

Ridiculous isn’t it? Well, the state closures are no different, just a bigger geographic scale.

[Turnleft080]

The news as of now it looks like us VICs are going to enjoy another 6 months of state of emergency.
Greens MP Samantha Ratnam mysteriously comes out of maternity leave to pass the bill.
(That has the feel of Judas doing the breakaway and visiting the high priest house to pick up his 30 pieces of silver).
Then speaking of the next gospel it will come on fathers day in the matter of 2 road maps.
Really looking forward to coming up to the T intersection. Most likely the left sign will say 'more pain, misery, job redundancies this way'
and the right sign will say 'really more pain, misery, job redundancies this way'.
This is an extract from the Montypython/Yes minister ministeries, governing for all. Bless

[Square Bear]

In Qld the Premier has stated that the borders will not open until there have been two complete 14 day cycles of no community transmission.


Really...is that even possible? Even NZ, a country held up as doing a great job is not achieving that at the moment.

At least WA is doing it for its own purpose (and realistically upfront about it) ....not chasing the impossible dream like the QLD Premier is.

[Turnleft080]

https://youtu.be/FINwOHk3hus

I say hear hear!!

[Bend alot]

https://youtu.be/FINwOHk3hus

I say hear hear!!
A few details on protecting the elderly and vulnerable - WAS requested a few posts ago with just a few MINOR details please.

If you can not dot that - please stop posting the same rubbish.

[currawong]

This played on SBS last night.

It is well worth a look, despite being in the UK context.

Skip to 24:00 if you want to see one of the presenters (young healthy male) requiring a defib. due post covid syndrome.

https://youtu.be/1wPmds8W5pc

[Turnleft080]

Vic numbers reducing rapidly 70 for the last 2 days some profs even expecting single digits this coming weekend.
Then the so called 2 road maps will be revealed. Say the road maps maintain cases under 10.

What if all states/territories for a period of 14 or 21 days register 5 cases or below.
Would it be logical, maybe intelligent if all states premiers agreed to make masks compulsory nationwide
with your sanitise bottle with you. Now would everyone on here agree borders then can open.???
That could be end of Oct start of Nov. Based only on predicted cases.

[Bend alot]

V
What if all states/territories for a period of 14 or 21 days register 5 cases or below.
Would it be logical, maybe intelligent if all states premiers agreed to make masks compulsory nationwide
with your sanitise bottle with you. Now would everyone on here agree borders then can open.???
That could be end of Oct start of Nov. Based only on predicted cases.

First part first - What if all states/territories for a period of 14 or 21 days register 5 cases or below.

[currawong]

Vic numbers reducing rapidly 70 for the last 2 days some profs even expecting single digits this coming weekend.
Then the so called 2 road maps will be revealed. Say the road maps maintain cases under 10.

What if all states/territories for a period of 14 or 21 days register 5 cases or below.
Would it be logical, maybe intelligent if all states premiers agreed to make masks compulsory nationwide
with your sanitise bottle with you. Now would everyone on here agree borders then can open.???
That could be end of Oct start of Nov. Based only on predicted cases.

Of course its possible.

But as we have seen unlikely.

Why?

Covid safe app? No it might penetrate my tinfoil hat

Mask? No I can't breath.

Any other reasonable measure? No the government cannot tell ME what to do.

This could have been more of less over months ago....

[Turnleft080]

First part first - What if all states/territories for a period of 14 or 21 days register 5 cases or below.

If for example all states/territories for a period of 14 or 21 days registered 5 cases or below, then
wouldn't be logical, if all states premiers open up the borders. The whole country to wear masks and have mini sanitiser
bottle with them. Transmission would be very negligible under these conditions would it not.

[Turnleft080]

Of course its possible.

But as we have seen unlikely.

Why?

Covid safe app? No it might penetrate my tinfoil hat

Mask? No I can't breath.

Any other reasonable measure? No the government cannot tell ME what to do.

This could have been more of less over months ago....
Yep agreed, governments have forgotten how we lived pre covid.

[currawong]

You sir, have a very short memory.

"So I look at people with face masks on and I see people that have been brain washed by governments.
They have no effect. Thank you cdc."

Or was that not you?

[blubak]

In Qld the Premier has stated that the borders will not open until there have been two complete 14 day cycles of no community transmission.


Really...is that even possible? Even NZ, a country held up as doing a great job is not achieving that at the moment.

At least WA is doing it for its own purpose (and realistically upfront about it) ....not chasing the impossible dream like the QLD Premier is.
She lives in a different world,talks about 'queenslanders',i thought a 'queenslander' was an older style house with verandahas etc so that it remained cool during the summer months.
Under a verandah somewhere is probably a good place for her😂

[Turnleft080]

You sir, have a very short memory.

"So I look at people with face masks on and I see people that have been brain washed by governments.
They have no effect. Thank you cdc."

Or was that not you?
Bloody oath that was me. When I go outside walk down the street everyone just looks down with gloomy eyes.
You can see the body language and concern, that their businesses are fading.
What adds to the fury the dirty filthy sinky art degree Greens, have gone to the Labour brothel
to vote in 6 more months of more power. Dan has us dangling with strings enjoy the puppet show.

[SOPS]

I can tell you one thing. As long as Mr Palmer continues to bomb the airwaves here in WA trying to get the borders open and criticising the Premier... there is no way the WA border will open.
The more he advertises, the more the majority of people are happy to keep the borders closed. And the more the people of WA support the Premier.

[dr dre]

A few details on protecting the elderly and vulnerable - WAS requested a few posts ago with just a few MINOR details please.

If you can not dot that - please stop posting the same rubbish.

Agreed. All it is is rubbish, just like everything out of the mouths of Chris Kenny and his HCQ-snake oil pushing Sky After Dark mates. A former Liberal Party spin doctor praising two of his mates

Makes me sick to hear him pretend he’s looking out for the “welfare of the youth”. They’ve never cared about the youth (not their target demographic), and have been happy to push agendas like their anti same sex marriage campaign that mental health experts warned us would increase mental health issues amongst youth.

It’s solely a political attack on his political enemy. He quotes statistics from Peter Collignon (an infectious diseases Clinician and Professor of Microbiology) but fails to mention Collignon has said Victoria’s restrictions are the reason the infection rate was being turned around. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-10/victoria-coronavirus-cases-stabilise-other-grim-records-broken/12539306)

Interesting data too, that Professor Collignon has promoted, nations that have suffered the least economic decline have also done the best at preventing deaths (https://ourworldindata.org/covid-health-economy).

But among countries with available GDP data, we do not see any evidence of a trade-off between protecting people’s health and protecting the economy. Rather the relationship we see between the health and economic impacts of the pandemic goes in the opposite direction. As well as saving lives, countries controlling the outbreak effectively may have adopted the best economic strategy too.


Didn't see Chris Kenny talk about that......

[currawong]

Price vs cost of not locking down.

Early data from China.

"As these policies prevented greater economic losses and more deaths, the Wuhan Lockdown is a policy with significant potential benefits."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-00545-4#Fig4

[Ragnor]

The hypocrisy reins in QLD. No quarantine for 400 AFL officials but every day Aussies are being punished on the border towns.

[thisishardtochoose]

The hypocrisy reins in QLD. No quarantine for 400 AFL officials but every day Aussies are being punished on the border towns.

They are quarantined.... get your facts right please

[KRviator]

They are quarantined.... get your facts right pleaseAAhh, no, they won't be. Which is precisely why Perth didn't get it - they would have required everyone to quarantine for 7 days before the game and the AFL said, "yeah, naah". Source (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/09/02/afl-explains-why-perth-wasnt-awarded-hosting-rights-to-2020-grand-final/). Second source (https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/locked-in-afl-boss-announces-historic-first-as-grand-final-details-confirmed-c-1285849).
McLachlan confirmed Western Australia’s commitment to border closures and mandatory quarantine removed Optus Stadium from the final stage of the bidding process.

Amazing how a mother can't go with her 2-day-old newborn baby to hospital in Queensland, because "she lives in NSW" - though nowhere near any active cases - yet the Qld Government has rolled out the red carpet, sans quarantine, to 400 AFL officials from the greatest COVID outbreak in the country at present...:ugh::mad:

Is this what we have become as Australians? Is this who we want to be?

[currawong]

The hypocrisy reins in QLD. No quarantine for 400 AFL officials but every day Aussies are being punished on the border towns.

FYI.

I live in a border town. I cross the border for work daily.

Have not missed a day through all of this.

You might want to check your sources.

[currawong]

AAhh, no, they won't be. Which is precisely why Perth didn't get it - they would have required everyone to quarantine for 7 days before the game and the AFL said, "yeah, naah". Source (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/09/02/afl-explains-why-perth-wasnt-awarded-hosting-rights-to-2020-grand-final/). Second source (https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/locked-in-afl-boss-announces-historic-first-as-grand-final-details-confirmed-c-1285849).


Amazing how a mother can't go with her 2-day-old newborn baby to hospital in Queensland, because "she lives in NSW" - though nowhere near any active cases - yet the Qld Government has rolled out the red carpet, sans quarantine, to 400 AFL officials from the greatest COVID outbreak in the country at present...:ugh::mad:

Is this what we have become as Australians? Is this who we want to be?

You do know they arrived over a month ago?

And were quarantined at that time?

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-afl-s-mass-exodus-up-to-170-kids-to-head-to-queensland-20200728-p55gcs.html

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-s-quarantine-hub-a-template-for-future-confinements-20200730-p55h2q.html

[blubak]

[QUOTE=KRviator;10876573]AAhh, no, they won't be. Which is precisely why Perth didn't get it - they would have required everyone to quarantine for 7 days before the game and the AFL said, "yeah, naah". Source (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/09/02/afl-explains-why-perth-wasnt-awarded-hosting-rights-to-2020-grand-final/). Second source (https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/locked-in-afl-boss-announces-historic-first-as-grand-final-details-confirmed-c-1285849).


Amazing how a mother can't go with her 2-day-old newborn baby to hospital in Queensland, because "she lives in NSW" - though nowhere near any active cases - yet the Qld Government has rolled out the red carpet, sans quarantine, to 400 AFL officials from the greatest COVID outbreak in the country at present...:ugh::mad:

Is this what we have become as Australians? Is this who we want to be?[/QUOTE
Well said,she likes all the glory but when something she doesnt like comes up all you get is excuses.
I guess though when you are trying to get every dollar to save your state from bankruptcy you have to go to desperate measures .

[Ragnor]

They are quarantined.... get your facts right please
I have, I also seen the news conference today announcing the move. If only everyone else was afforded the same quarantine rules of being out in the fresh air in the golf course. Nope they’re all locked tightly away like criminals

The AFL CEO flew to QLD yesterday so he hasn’t been there a mo th

[KRviator]

You do know they arrived over a month ago? And were quarantined at that time?You do know they'll be travelling interstate for the finals? And won't be quarantined when they go back?
WA Premier Mark McGowan had also played down expectations by indicating they would not sacrifice their hard border to chase the event. However WA still hopes they will be able to host a game in week one of the finals if they finish in the top two of the ladder.However Port Adelaide chairman David Koch is expecting to host all of their home finals in Adelaide, including a home preliminary final if they win that right.Source (https://www.afr.com/companies/sport/brisbane-s-afl-grand-final-a-reward-for-keeping-the-season-alive-20200902-p55rms)

[currawong]

You do know they'll be travelling interstate for the finals? And won't be quarantined when they go back?


You mean like for game one in WA?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-16/afl-returns-to-perth-stadium-amid-coronavirus-crowd-fears/12461094

[thisishardtochoose]

You do know they'll be travelling interstate for the finals? And won't be quarantined when they go back?


You do know they travel the day off the game and straight out of the state day off the game in most instances.
They have also been living in their own hubs for the whole season without mingling with the crowds or the general public, so in essence yes they are being quarantined with some other rules relaxed for the players.

I for one am genuinely grateful that's the case as some form of normalcy during these days is amazing.

[thisishardtochoose]

Oh and I am a firm believer our domestic borders should be open for at least WA, SA, NT, TAS, QLD. Once the situations ease in NSW and VIC I hope all domestic borders open up

[Xeptu]

Oh and I am a firm believer our domestic borders should be open for at least WA, SA, NT, TAS, QLD. Once the situations ease in NSW and VIC I hope all domestic borders open up

So do we. The reason we haven't opened up to the other states is because, health issue aside, we don't want to crash our economy and end up chasing the virus around the state trying to contain it. We are of the view that is playing catchyup, which is more than likely going to get away from the tracers. Essentially this is whats happened in victoria, that has shown to be a catastrophy. NSW will be the decider if it's possible to do it, we'll know by Christmas. We need to find a way to make sure that those crossing our borders are in fact not from the high risk group, as has already occurred and continues to occur in all of those States.

[thisishardtochoose]

Amazing how a mother can't go with her 2-day-old newborn baby to hospital in Queensland, because "she lives in NSW" - though nowhere near any active cases
[/i]

Did this not get debunked? Didn't the Truth come out that the family was indeed allowed into QLD? Correct me if I am wrong but didn't QLD health come out and say they were never approached regarding this and that emergencies do not require any sort of exemption?

[currawong]

Did this not get debunked? Didn't the Truth come out that the family was indeed allowed into QLD? Correct me if I am wrong but didn't QLD health come out and say they were never approached regarding this and that emergencies do not require any sort of exemption?

Yup.

Whoever made the call that sent them south was uninformed.

[Ragnor]

They were not allowed in by QLD health. QLD health said it was logistically to hard because of the QLD gov. It was reported in The Australian last week.

[currawong]

I presume it was an emergency...

"Patients requiring emergency care and entering Queensland via ambulance, aeromedical retrieval or formal interstate hospital transfer will not be subject to the border requirements on the next page"

https://www.health.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/1003463/patient-factsheet-essential-care-qld-border-restrictions.pdf

[Ragnor]

Not according to Dr Ingall

Mum told to head south: doctor
EXCLUSIVE

NATASHA ROBINSON

NSW doctors treating a pregnant woman whose twin babies needed urgent surgery claim senior clinicians at Queensland’s Mater Hospital told them that “given the political situation” of border closures the mother should be transported 750km south to Sydney rather than be operated on in Brisbane. A political row over border closures has gained intensity after it emerged that one of the twin girls carried by Ballina mother Kimberley Brown died after intrauterine surgery performed by doctors at the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney. On August 13, an obstetrician at Lismore Base Hospital in northern NSW spoke with the director of maternal fetal medicine at the Mater Hospital and discussed Ms Brown’s urgent need for surgery. Lismore paediatrician Chris Ingall, who sits on the executive of the medical staff council at Lismore Base Hospital and has spoken directly with Ms Brown’s treating obstetricians, said the case was agreed by all clinicians to be urgent. “The Mater Hospital agreed it was an urgent case but they said given the political situation the woman needed to be sent to Sydney ,” Dr Ingall said. Mater denies the claim. “We didn’t deny access and always were happy to provide care if RPA weren’t able to do so,” a spokesperson said. Patients requiring emergency medical care are allowed to be treated in Queensland hospitals despite the border closure, but Dr Ingall said that in practice, doctors were facing bureaucratic barriers to getting patients urgent care. “We at this point here are totally bamboozled by the answers we’re getting from both the governments and also the hospitals,” Dr Ingall said. “Because we need to get a double tick. We need to get a tick on both the bureaucratic and political masters and also the health administrators that cases are an emergency. So we’ve got no way of telling what is going to happen.” The Northern NSW Local Health District said surgery in Brisbane would not have been a feasible option because Ms Brown would have been required to quarantine in Queensland for 14 days before having surgery. Queensland Health says, however, that emergency cases receive urgent care. It’s unclear whether Ms Brown’s case qualified as an emergency despite doctors on both sides of the border agreeing the situation was urgent. “While the preferred location for the family to give birth was at a hospital in Brisbane, under the Queensland Border Direction at the time, the woman and her partner would have had to quarantine in a government hotel for 14 days, at their own expense, prior the procedure,” said Northern NSW Local Health District chief executive Wayne Jones.” Ms Brown’s babies, which at the time were 24 weeks’ gestation, were affected by twin-to-twin transfusion syndrome, in which twins share one placenta and the blood flow of one baby is channelled through the other. Ms Brown required highly specialised intra-uterine surgery that could only be performed in Sydney or Brisbane. “The twin that’s giving blood to the other twin doesn’t grow as well. So that’s what was happening here and it was being closely monitored,” Dr Ingall said. “But it got to a point where the smaller twin was in jeopardy. And the surgery requires actually in utero surgery to stop the twin-totwin transfusion from occurring.” Ms Brown and her husband Scott remain in Sydney as doctors monitor the progress of the surviving twin. Ms Brown’s father, Allan Watt, told The Weekend Australian he had “done nothing but cry for the last 24 hours” . “The other bub is struggling along and they want to keep her in the womb until she’s 28 weeks,” he said. “If they had both been at 28 weeks there would have been a fair chance of saving the other bub, but she was just too young to be born.” Mr Watt, who is in Ballina while his wife and daughter are in Sydney, said their family had been “divided” by border closures and travel restrictions. Despite the Queensland health department saying exemptions were not necessary in emergency cases, it is understood the family was told that a medical exemption was needed for Ms Brown to cross the border. “They took the option to go to Sydney because it would take too long to get an exemption,” Mr Watt said. Mr Watt said his daughter waited at Lismore Base Hospital for 16 hours before she was flown by air ambulance to RPA to undergo emergency surgery. Mr Brown took a Jetstar flight to Sydney and arrived there 10 hours before an air retrieval flight carrying his wife landed at 1am. Dr Ingall said it was not possible to determine whether Ms Brown’s baby would have survived if she had received surgery sooner in Brisbane. “It is possible that if she’d been quickly transferred to Brisbane , she may have had a better outcome. That’s a possibility.” Copyright © 2020 News Pty Limited

[KRviator]

Did this not get debunked? Didn't the Truth come out that the family was indeed allowed into QLD? Correct me if I am wrong but didn't QLD health come out and say they were never approached regarding this and that emergencies do not require any sort of exemption?Two different instances - which is bad enough when you think about that!

The one I referred to (The Lismore mum whose newborn was medi-vac'd to Brisbane) was granted an exemption into Queensland but not into the hospital. The hospital refused entry to be with her newborn son, unless they had undertaken 2 weeks quarantine. The ABC Report on it (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-17/qld-hospital-rejects-nsw-mother-of-sick-newborn-amid-covid-fears/12564936)
Yup. Whoever made the call that sent them south was uninformed.Does it really matter whether they were misinformed or not? The situation should not have put the medical staff in that position (to be able to be misinformed) in the first place...When it comes only a matter of days after the Queensland Premier proudly stood in front of the media pack and proclaimed "Queensland Hospitals are for Queenslanders!" you can well understand how they became misinformed, if indeed that is what happened.

[currawong]

" The Northern NSW Local Health District said surgery in Brisbane would not have been a feasible option because Ms Brown would have been required to quarantine in Queensland for 14 days before having surgery."

Incorrect.

"Inpatient (receiving care in a hospital ward) If you are admitted into a hospital, you will need to complete your quarantine at the hospital."

https://www.health.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/1003463/patient-factsheet-essential-care-qld-border-restrictions.pdf

:rolleyes:

[currawong]

Two different instances - which is bad enough when you think about that!

The one I referred to (The Lismore mum whose newborn was medi-vac'd to Brisbane) was granted an exemption into Queensland but not into the hospital. The hospital refused entry to be with her newborn son, unless they had undertaken 2 weeks quarantine. The ABC Report on it (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-17/qld-hospital-rejects-nsw-mother-of-sick-newborn-amid-covid-fears/12564936)
Does it really matter whether they were misinformed or not? The situation should not have put the medical staff in that position (to be able to be misinformed) in the first place...When it comes only a matter of days after the Queensland Premier proudly stood in front of the media pack and proclaimed "Queensland Hospitals are for Queenslanders!" you can well understand how they became misinformed, if indeed that is what happened.

Have a look at the link.

Looks pretty straightforward to me.

Or are the medics getting their info from the tabloids?

[Derfred]

The version of the story I read, was that they contacted Brisbane, and were told that they could be accommodated, “but only if the RPA in Sydney could not accommodate them”.

I’m sorry I don’t have the link to that story at hand, but it was probably one of the links posted here earlier.

We are all pilots here... so that strikes me as a rule-book definition of knowing when to call a “Mayday”.

If you are in charge of an aircraft in distress, and fail to call “Mayday”, you may be denied or delayed to your nearest/safest port of call. If you subsequently crash as a result, that then becomes your fault.

It’s pretty clear that if the NSW doctors had put her in an ambulance bound for the nearest suitable hospital (i.e. Brisbane), they would not have been delayed. The doctors would have known that.

It appears they were happy to wear the 16 hour delay to Sydney, rather than declare an emergency. That was their decision, not the Premier of Queenslands’.

Nobody here knows whether the decision would have made any difference to the outcome.

That might sound callous. It also might sound callous to infer that I am blaming the doctor in northern NSW for a poor decision. I am not.

At the end of the day, an unborn baby failed to make it at 24 weeks which was already at high risk due to an existing complication. Premature births at 24 weeks do not survive. I am not going to second-guess the decisions of the doctors, any more than I or any of you would expect a doctor to second guess what I might do in charge of an aircraft in flight with a serious problem.

Maybe, just maybe, the doctors knew the outcome would have been the same regardless of which hospital she ended up at. Maybe not. None of us know, and neither do the media, who are trying to beat up a story.

Edited note: Ragnor has reposted the article above referencing that Brisbane could have looked after her if RPA could not. The associated levels of emergency risk communicated between the.health experts Involved cannot be determined from the article.

[dr dre]

This discussion of that emergency medical incident sounds like clueless members of the general public arguing on the internet about their theories of why a plane crashed based solely on a what they read in a couple of news articles.

I’m sure our medical professionals took the actions they believed were appropriate with the patient based on their knowledge at the time.

[Derfred]

Thank you Dr Dre

[Ragnor]

Anyway it is what it is no point arguing over quotes and what state is doing what, absolutely nothing can be done to move our country forward. All we can do is witness it sink into the oblivion. The honest truth I have discovered, if you're not affected you don't care and the vast majority of the population couldn't care about airlines or a tourist operator in another state.

[Xeptu]

Anyway it is what it is no point arguing over quotes and what state is doing what, absolutely nothing can be done to move our country forward. All we can do is witness it sink into the oblivion. The honest truth I have discovered, if you're not affected you don't care and the vast majority of the population couldn't care about airlines or a tourist operator in another state.

Not quite right, people do care, it's a case of what can we do about it in the same way as climate change and plastics in the ocean. One only needs to think about those issues pre -covid, what were your thoughts and what did you do then, it's exactly the same. Opening the borders and pretending the pandemic doesn't exist isn't going to fix the problem, it's only going to make it worse. One step at a time.

[rattman]

Two different instances - which is bad enough when you think about that!

The one I referred to (The Lismore mum whose newborn was medi-vac'd to Brisbane) was granted an exemption into Queensland but not into the hospital. The hospital refused entry to be with her newborn son, unless they had undertaken 2 weeks quarantine. The ABC Report on it (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-17/qld-hospital-rejects-nsw-mother-of-sick-newborn-amid-covid-fears/12564936)
Does it really matter whether they were misinformed or not? The situation should not have put the medical staff in that position (to be able to be misinformed) in the first place...When it comes only a matter of days after the Queensland Premier proudly stood in front of the media pack and proclaimed "Queensland Hospitals are for Queenslanders!" you can well understand how they became misinformed, if indeed that is what happened.


Stop lying they were given an exemption to enter queensland, she initially delayed from entering the ICU until they had sorted infection control. Next day she was allowed to enter the ICU in full protective gear, by the time the reports where published she had already visited the child. A few days later the child and the family returned to lismore

[KRviator]

Stop lying they were given an exemption to enter queensland, she initially delayed from entering the ICU until they had sorted infection control. Next day she was allowed to enter the ICU in full protective gear, by the time the reports where published she had already visited the child. A few days later the child and the family returned to lismoreI don't appreciate being called a liar, champ - particularly when you've provided no evidence she was indeed reunited with her newborn "after" the original articles were published. However this article (https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/relief-for-mum-separated-from-baby/4081277/) states she was not reunited with her infant until after he was returned to Lismore. Do you have any reference to verify your claims these two articles are incorrect?

Despite Ms Northfield and her husband Glen getting permission from NSW and Queensland authorities to travel north to visit Harvey, Brisbane's Royal Brisbane and Women's Hospital told the heartbroken couple their visit was "too high-risk" due to and they would have to quarantine for 14 days. ut today, Ms Northfield was finally reunited with baby Harvey after he was brought back to hospital in Lismore.

And This story (https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/mum-reunited-with-newborn-after-being-separated-due-to-covid-border-closure-c-1249539) reports the parents were "Forced to return home"...
The couple were forced to return home and saw their newborn over video call. “I just want him to know how much I love him,” Chantelle said at the time. On Tuesday, the parents were finally reunited with their son.

The couple at the birth of their son, left, and baby Harvey back in Lismore, right. After his condition improved, baby Harvey was flown back to Lismore to be with his parents.“Harvey was brought back to the Nursery at Lismore Hospital and came straight into my arms after a long 4 days,” Chantelle wrote on Facebook.

[MrPeabody]

So here we are heading to the end of week 5 of stage 4 lock-down and we get 113 new cases in the last 24 hours. We entered stage 3 again on July 8th and on July 22nd face masks became compulsory. There's a lot of people out and about; and I don't think they give a crap.

[Ragnor]

I am curious as to why numbers are so high in ML still, even with ppl moving about I'm sure the majority are doing the right thing.

[Xeptu]

Are the testers being tested daily, these are vulnerable if there's an issue with PPE, which clearly there is due to number of medical staff infected already. It only takes one asymptomatic spreader among them. One of our own weaknesses we identified.

[thisishardtochoose]

I am curious as to why numbers are so high in ML still, even with ppl moving about I'm sure the majority are doing the right thing.

A lot of ongoing outbreaks, a couple of days ago Brett Sutton mentioned there being still over 100 active outbreaks

[IFEZ]

Ragnor - I'd say the vast majority are doing the right thing. Victorians are no different to any other people in Australia. Problem is Victoria is being led by a bunch of inept, incompetent but extraordinarily arrogant fools who dropped the ball on hotel quarantine and once it got out into the community their contact tracing system was exposed as being totally undermanned and inadequate, which allowed the virus to completely get away from them and the only way to stop it was to impose another harsh lockdown. The problem is, they STILL haven't fixed the contact tracing problem and until they do, we're never going to get on top of this. Wouldn't surprise me if they extend Stage 4 to end of September now.
Example :- Someone I know was just informed that their child has been identified as a 'close contact' of another child who has just tested positive and has to be isolated. Problem is, they were informed about this 8 DAYS after the child tested positive. Like I said, we'll never get on top of it under those circumstances. How many others have been unwittingly spreading it at the local supermarket, workplace, school etc due to delays like this..? Victoria is right royally screwed at the moment. I'm not a fan of border closures but I can understand why they're doing it.

[blubak]

A lot of ongoing outbreaks, a couple of days ago Brett Sutton mentioned there being still over 100 active outbreaks
1/3 of cases are in the healthcare system & of the 15 deaths 8 or 9 of them are from past couple of weeks which have just come through,14 out of the 15 are from aged care.
The fed govt run the aged care system so they should be answering the questions as to why there is the delay in deaths being reported & also why these deaths are occuring.
Blame Andrews for what hes responsible for but dont put blinkers on when you see facts u dont like,brett sutton is a professor not a fool so those happy to criticise should think about what he is not what state hes working in.

[MrPeabody]

The LGA's of Wyndham, Hume, Brimbank, Hobsons Bay, Moreland, Maribyrnong and Melton have had the highest case rates in the last 2 weeks; with the exception of Maribyrnong, these LGA's also have some of the lowest testing rates. A number of these have been right up there since the beginning when the genie was let out of the quarantine bottle.

[Ragnor]

Gladys said today she had that phone call with Anastasia about the border, Anastasia told her two incubation periods without community transmission Gladys told her you’re requesting the impossible. I have not posted the storey which is in today’s Australian live updates.

Anyone here over the federal and states rules of parliament and out constitution?

Sco Mo said in question time today borders will be open before Xmas! Does he have the power to overrule a state premier and if so why has he not done so for even the simplest things like medical and contract workers?

[Xeptu]

Gladys said today she had that phone call with Anastasia about the border, Anastasia told her two incubation periods without community transmission Gladys told her you’re requesting the impossible. I have not posted the storey which is in today’s Australian live updates.

Anyone here over the federal and states rules of parliament and out constitution?

Sco Mo said in question time today borders will be open before Xmas! Does he have the power to overrule a state premier and if so why has he not done so for even the simplest things like medical and contract workers?

She also said she will raise it with her health officials, so it wasn't a blanket refusal and Scomo did not say that. Have another listen to his speech, the media may well have said that.

[brokenagain]

Make the states fund JobKeeper and watch the restrictions come tumbling down.

[Xeptu]

Make the states fund JobKeeper and watch the restrictions come tumbling down.

That might be a problem for Victoria where most of the jobkeeper payments are and their borders are not closed.

[wheels_down]

The problem is Anastasia is too unpredictable. We can’t be opening and closing. NSW might maintain 10 cases a day for a month then all of a sudden record 20 and she locks them out again. You then don’t get that border open for months. Madness.

I actually pity AJ and all his employees who have to put up with this BS. By all means vote her out folks.

[Xeptu]

The problem is Anastasia is too unpredictable. We can’t be opening and closing. NSW might maintain 10 cases a day for a month then all of a sudden record 20 and she locks them out again. You then don’t get that border open for months. Madness.

The real issue is that no-one truly believes having community transmission is containable. Most believe it will blow out and NSW will end up where VIC is. Just quietly the medical professionals believe NSW will fall by Christmas. If they are wrong and NSW does a sterling job and keeps it contained, then that's a fair call for the other states to consider following NSW lead.

[DirectAnywhere]

The problem is Anastasia is too unpredictable. We can’t be opening and closing. NSW might maintain 10 cases a day for a month then all of a sudden record 20 and she locks them out again. You then don’t get that border open for months. Madness.

I actually pity AJ and all his employees who have to put up with this BS. By all means vote her out folks.

This has been the problem since day one. No-one has ever bothered to either set or state the criteria for border openings. It’s an ad-hoc, scattergun process, varying between each state and territory, rather than a national approach in the national interest.

Having said that, Queensland’s CHO stated today they want to see 28 days with no community transmission in NSW before considering opening the border. As Gladys said, we may never see that. If there’s no vaccine, or it’s not completely effective, based on their own criteria, Queensland may stay closed to southern states in perpetuity.

It’s a frankly ridiculous state of affairs and our political leaders should hang their collective heads in shame at their inability to plan a way forward in the best interests of ALL Australians. If they want to stay shut then so be it but find a nationally agreed position, state what it is, and prepare Australians for what is to come.

If there has ever been a stronger scenario in the last 120 years arguing for the abolition of the states entirely, I fail to see it.

[Xeptu]

What is the Federal Governments criteria for opening the International border. Start with that first.

[brokenagain]

Just quietly the medical professionals believe NSW will fall by Christmas.

Source? Or this is just your usual hyperbole.

[Ragnor]

Xeptu- You are getting a kick out of seeing thousands of lives destroyed. You seem very happy and content that the reaction of premiers will be worse than the virus itself.

[Xeptu]

Source? Or this is just your usual hyperbole.

My very well integrated family members, you can call it hyperbole from me personally if you wish. It doesn't make any difference.

[Xeptu]

Xeptu- You are getting a kick out of seeing thousands of lives destroyed. You seem very happy and content that the reaction of premiers will be worse than the virus itself.

Did you get a kick out of those who lost everything from the bushfires, Your position is no different, it's the same argument.

[KRviator]

Not even close, Xeptu!

The bushfires were a natural disaster. COVID could also be described as a national disaster. Maybe. However, the issue being discussed here is not COVID itself, but the Government response to COVID, and that is what most of have an issue with. Bushfires you can defend against, you know your enemy, you can, if you deem it necessary, prepare your property. If you choose not to do so, and you lose your house, then I'm sorry, but perhaps building among the gum trees with minimal protection wasn't the right idea in the first place but that's as far as it goes for me. If you've done everything right, got a dam or tank, diesel firefighter pump, PPE and hose reels about your house and you still lose it, then you should be supported.

The difference is one of personal responsibility and ability of the individual to control the outcome. With COVID, we have none of that.

Do I want to catch it? Not at all. But I would rather take the chance of catching it, but wear PPE, wash my hands, not pick my nose etc, and have a fully functioning country and economy than what we have now - Governments at each others throats, a budget deficit that will take generations to pay off and tens of thousands of people unemployed.

[ruprecht]

Can I have my 2011-2012 flood levy back?

[brokenagain]

Xeptu is safely ensconced in his cave, so screw everyone else. I’d rather take my chances with coronavirus than be living in my car relying on food stamps within 12 months. And at the current rate, the latter is a much more likely occurrence.

[Xeptu]

Statements clearly made by someone who has never lived in the regions, you don't have any of that in a bushfire either and the outcome is the same, arguably less for you, you still have your house. So when the fires were finally out, where were you, did you join us installing water tanks and demountable accomodation, or was it just thoughts and prayers.

[Ragnor]

Did you get a kick out of those who lost everything from the bushfires, Your position is no different, it's the same argument.

No o did not. That’s a random comment. I helped rebuild those around me donated what I could.

But that comment makes a lot of sense you have had misery recently I feel for you. But don’t sit there behind your keyboard wishing it on others and be happy that others are being destroyed.

[Xeptu]

But don’t sit there behind your keyboard wishing it on others and be happy that others are being destroyed.

I'm actually offended, where on earth do you get the notion I wish it on others. I have always my entire life done what is in the best interest of the greater majority. Your problem is not recognising you are not in that majority.

[dr dre]

If there has ever been a stronger scenario in the last 120 years arguing for the abolition of the states entirely, I fail to see it.

Zero chance of that happening. That would require the biggest re-writing of the Constitution in history. Australians are notoriously reluctant to change the Constitution, only 8 out of 44 referendums have passed for minor issues. Even relatively straight forward changes for a minimal Republican model failed. Abolition of the states would never get through. I think WA, and maybe others, would rather secede than be ruled from Canberra on the other side of the continent.

The way out of this will be a national road map, but that would take a competent Federal government. Apart from putting us into debt giving pay rises to some casual and part time workers our current government has been quite clueless on how to guide us through this crisis. They've been more than happy to follow the Premiers and Arden's lead, and cowardly hide behind Clive Palmer. They refused to debate Australia's first recession in 3 decades yesterday in Parliament. So it's no surprise some Premiers feel they have to take the initiative on their own.

[Xeptu]

Can I have my 2011-2012 flood levy back?

Thankyou for your statement, our customers are very important to us. Had you filed your RU467 variation form and submitted it for review by the due date and passed scrutiny of our over sight committee, you may have been eligible for a refund, Sadly I must inform you that your application exceeds the statute of limitations and therefore is rejected. Due to our departments cost recovery and efficiency program and the time it took to locate your original flood levy statement, we will apply our amended application fee of $90.58 to your rates levy for the next financial year.

[DirectAnywhere]

Zero chance of that happening. That would require the biggest re-writing of the Constitution in history.

Yup, I know it. Doesn't hurt to dream though.

[Chronic Snoozer]

This has been the problem since day one. No-one has ever bothered to either set or state the criteria for border openings. It’s an ad-hoc, scattergun process, varying between each state and territory, rather than a national approach in the national interest.

Having said that, Queensland’s CHO stated today they want to see 28 days with no community transmission in NSW before considering opening the border. As Gladys said, we may never see that. If there’s no vaccine, or it’s not completely effective, based on their own criteria, Queensland may stay closed to southern states in perpetuity.

It’s a frankly ridiculous state of affairs and our political leaders should hang their collective heads in shame at their inability to plan a way forward in the best interests of ALL Australians. If they want to stay shut then so be it but find a nationally agreed position, state what it is, and prepare Australians for what is to come.

If there has ever been a stronger scenario in the last 120 years arguing for the abolition of the states entirely, I fail to see it.

28 days of no community transmission to consider opening. Lets say that happens. What if the very next day sees 5 cases QLD will close the border faster than you can say disease infested. No point having opening criteria without publicising the criteria for shutting the border.

[goodonyamate]

This is the biggest over reaction in history. Efforts are not directed in the right areas.
target protection for the elderly and vulnerable. The rest of us should be getting on with life with the appropriate precautions. Palaszczuk and McGowan have no idea what it means to be Australian. Remove all government subsidies, have them find their own medical care. Perhaps that will remind them. +1 on the flood levy.

My dad lives in QLD. Been a labor voter all his life. Wouldn’t spit on Palaszczuk he says. Both parents moving out of QLD ASAP. Disgusted with the place.

[blubak]

The problem is Anastasia is too unpredictable. We can’t be opening and closing. NSW might maintain 10 cases a day for a month then all of a sudden record 20 and she locks them out again. You then don’t get that border open for months. Madness.

I actually pity AJ and all his employees who have to put up with this BS. By all means vote her out folks.
Yes,she is a dreamer whereas Gladys is a realist & doesnt crap on & on about how good she is.
That picture of her holding the footy is an absolute embarrasment & shows (as usual) its all about her.
I havent heard her bleating about how much its costing her bankrupt state to host the afl gf & how much revenue will come from 30,000 fans.

[Bend alot]

This is the biggest over reaction in history. Efforts are not directed in the right areas.
target protection for the elderly and vulnerable.

This statement comes up often - but NEVER has anyone supplied any information on how or how long details. I am very interested to hear more about protecting the vulnerable (that group includes the elderly by the way).

[Xeptu]

This statement comes up often - but NEVER has anyone supplied any information on how or how long details. I am very interested to hear more about protecting the vulnerable (that group includes the elderly by the way).

Me too, along with the benefits to an unaffected state opening its border and allowing the virus in.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Quarantine shenanigans (https://www.watoday.com.au/national/queensland/footage-shows-relaxed-scenes-from-afl-hub-amid-calls-for-exemption-overhaul-20200903-p55s74.html)

You can't make this stuff up. There is some blue ribbon hypocrisy going on here. Nothing to do with an election I'm sure.

[KRviator]

Me too, along with the benefits to an unaffected state opening its border and allowing the virus in.So the WA Premier has stated he will not open the borders until the rest of the nation has achieved 28 days COVID-free.

My question to you is: What happens if (when) that is not achieved?

[Xeptu]

So the WA Premier has stated he will not open the borders until the rest of the nation has achieved 28 days COVID-free.

My question to you is: What happens if (when) that is not achieved?

Wait until the virus burns itself out.

[Bend alot]

Quarantine shenanigans (https://www.watoday.com.au/national/queensland/footage-shows-relaxed-scenes-from-afl-hub-amid-calls-for-exemption-overhaul-20200903-p55s74.html)

You can't make this stuff up. There is some blue ribbon hypocrisy going on here. Nothing to do with an election I'm sure.

I suggested this type (similar) quarantine arrangement before - a one in all in approach at resorts. All arrive together and all depart together 14 days later.

If one case emerges then it is restart of quarantine for all.

[wheelyfunny]

Name and Shame?

How is it - half of us are doing the right thing - yet some people persist to do the wrong thing and continue to operate and break laws after being penalised...?

[Chronic Snoozer]

So the WA Premier has stated he will not open the borders until the rest of the nation has achieved 28 days COVID-free.

My question to you is: What happens if (when) that is not achieved?

We keep having holidays in WA.

[Ragnor]

Oh those naughty AFL players from Richmond good to see they're having a blast and taking the pi$$.

Ensure those borders are shut air tight tho Anastasia.

[blubak]

Oh those naughty AFL players from Richmond good to see they're having a blast and taking the pi$$.

Ensure those borders are shut air tight tho Anastasia.
No no no,she cant shut them if theres a $ involved,got to recoup some losses somehow.

[Bend alot]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2020-09-03/vanuatu-workers-arrive-in-darwin-to-pick-mangoes/12621234?fbclid=IwAR1w-3rAzK3ScU1hNUozVebxjCRYGnZscD1UDN59duM5rSAEB_A5qb4d3ks

Well done NT.

[Ragnor]

Not really, massive kick in the guts to unemployed Aussies. Oh we are not Aussies anymore anyway the federation is on course for a break up

[Bend alot]

Not really, massive kick in the guts to unemployed Aussies. Oh we are not Aussies anymore anyway the federation is on course for a break up
If you read it - they are still well short on labour in the local market and trying to get more "Aussies" to get the product in the box.

If you have ever tried picking mangoes, you would be aware it is not for everyone and not everyone is/can be good at it.

As soon as the borders are open will we see you apply? - I will not try it again.

[LapSap]

Oh those naughty AFL players from Richmond good to see they're having a blast and taking the pi$$.

Ensure those borders are shut air tight tho Anastasia.

Well it turned out to be a pretty expensive piss-take.
Waiting for the cries of discrimination to follow no doubt...

[Square Bear]

We keep having holidays in WA.]

So if you leave the “Sovereign State of WA” and perhaps visit Relo’s or friends in say QLD, NSW will you be able to return, or are you banished from the Kingdom for ever...at least until the whole country has had 28 days of no community transmission.

if that is the case, maybe we will see a movie such as Papilion on WA Devil Island?

[SOPS]

So if you leave the “Sovereign State of WA” and perhaps visit Relo’s or friends in say QLD, NSW will you be able to return, or are you banished from the Kingdom for ever...at least until the whole country has had 28 days of no community transmission.

if that is the case, maybe we will see a movie such as Papilion on WA Devil Island?

To paraphrase the Eagles... “ You can check out anytime you like.. but chances are, you won’t be allowed back.”