Ryanair Interview and Sim Assessment (merged)

[david123]

hi to all, i have be invited for a Ryanair assessment at East Midlands,
i wanted to know if anyone has any information on the assessment day, in particular to the technical paper and the sim check

thank u, any information would be greatful

[stepdown]

There are 66 pages of information in this thread alone. How much more information do you want? Seriously - its worth your while going over these pages and you will find an abundance of information....possible every single type of question that has ever been asked at a Ryanair interview. You just need to get your finger out and go through it.

[intercooler]

Well said!

[nick14]

Yes Tech questions like what are the V speeds and in what order do they come. How does a jet engine work, what is radiation fog, questions on my previous types (seneca) critical engine on seneca and boeing, Vmca/Vmcg.

Personal interview was the usual why did you get into flying, what did you enjoy/dislike about your training, would you do anything different, why should we hire you, tell us about RYR.

All very relaxed although I was shaking like a leaf :O

N

[Reluctant737]

Nick,

What the hell is it about those places!? I have always prepared 110% for all the interviews I've had for flying jobs/scholarships etc, and the night before I always feel very confident.

But it always happens on the morning of the day! I get the s**ts (literally), feel nauseous, so then I begin smoking, but I can't smoke too much because I'll stink for the interview etc etc...

The drive calms me somewhat, but the WORST bit is when you walk in the interview room and everybody's sat down, and once you've all exchanged pleasantries and handshakes, there's that awful silence for a few seconds whilst they gather their thoughts together!

But I must have done something right last year because I got the job - it's funny, I never have problems with interviews for other jobs, but for flying, it's always the same old story. No problem at all with flying tests etc though, and I'm calm as calm when flying, so I'm not sure what it is!

Hehe, I'm a funny guy!

[nick14]

I have no idea,

Was realy confident through all my training and test etc, its only when im sat in a room with 2 people looking at my licences I seemed to have a mental block at one point. He asked me " so how do our jet engines work?" It took me by surprise and I had to think about it, its one of the simplest bleeding questions we could hope to be asked!!

It may be the fact that most of my day was spent waiting in suspence, I was the last one there and didnt get intot the interview untill 4:30 having arrived at around 8:20. Not good to sit and stew!

Like you I must have done something right.:E

Nick

[Reluctant737]

Maybe we're just shakers :E

[g1344304]

Hey guys, quick question. I passed the assessment and ash sent the email to confirm the training offer to which I replied that I would accept the training offer. This was just over a week ago and I have heard nothing since. Has anyone else experienced the same thing or should I call ash to check he got it? My email has a habit of not getting through junk filters.

btw for tech questions I didnt get asked about how jet engines worked cos I have an aero eng degree but instead they asked me what I saw as the fture of propulsion in aviation so we chatted about unducted fans and we also talked about T-tails, their advantages/disadvantages and why they are used. I also got asked a lot about SOPs, what I think of them and would I ever go against them.

[nick14]

Don't worry about the acceptance email,

I sent mine about a month ago and had my first communication back yesterday so don't stress.

The next email will probably be about converting your licence to IAA.

N

[g1344304]

Cheers nick, how much does that cost again?

[Mikehotel152]

g1344304 - I presume they tailored your tech questions to your background, hence the questions about unducted fans. Or, at least, I hope they do because I've no idea what unducted fans are! :uhoh:

[g1344304]

yes hey did Mike, we were talking about my degree and they asked me what parts I enjoyed so I said my Propulsion modules and I tried to steer my answer towards how jet engines work so he stopped me and said "we know that you know jet engines and turbo fans work so we arnt going to ask that" (crafty bugger) so he asked me where I see the future of propulsion

However I didnt learn anything to do with unducted fans at uni and my answer just comes from a general interest in aviation, from reading books and magazine articles over the years. Unducted fans are also called propfans and there is a page on wikipdia about them. Easyjet announced a concept plane last year that they wanted designers to create that had prop fans. They wanted it to replace their fleet in 2015 and it also had forward swept wings. So really this question wasnt crafted to my universty experience, just my aviation general knowledge. A boo I would definatly recommend for this sort of thing is Aircraft Flight by R H Barnard and D R Philpott which I did pick up for University. It covers loads of innovations like unducted fans and oter types of propulsion and things like forward swept wings and its all in plain english with no mathematics.

[nick14]

329 euro's,

Just gave the IAA a ring and they said that they will only need photocopies of the last few pages of your logbook, (it mentions the actual logbook on the form but no need to send that).

Id love to learn more about propulsion techniques and unducted fans etc, any interesting websites?

Nick

[g1344304]

just wikipedia mainly but I'm sure there are more out there. Propfans will offer huge fuel avings n the future if they get implemented. The biggest problem with them is cabin noise (blade tips go supersonic) and danger of a blade breaking and entering the cabin so they will probably be rear mounted. Passenger opinion is also quite low due to the wierd looking blades sticking out in all directions. Here are some articles about them or planes they ae associated with:

Propfan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propfan)
McDonnell Douglas MD-94X - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_MD-94X)
Antonov An-70 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-70)
Green sky thinking - carbon credits and the propfan comeback?-12/06/2007-Los Angeles-Flight International (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/06/12/214519/green-sky-thinking-carbon-credits-and-the-propfan.html)
easyJet.com - The ?easyJet ecoJet?: to cut CO2 emissions by 50% by 2015 (http://www.easyjet.com/en/News/easyjet_ecojet.html)

and here is a picture of easyjets concept:
Google Image Result for http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/07/ecojet11.jpg (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/07/ecojet11.jpg&imgrefurl=http://i.gizmodo.com/280092/easyjet-shows-off-its-ecojet-with-giant-orange-man&usg=__5Jxson5a850F2wlMFdnhOn6Tcic=&h=450&w=800&sz=47&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=M-OAoxv-p5IOLM:&tbnh=80&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Deasyjet%2Becojet%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Do ff)

enjoy

[jimsmitty01]

I also got the acceptance email from the assessment on the 17th Feb, but the next thing Ash said I would get would be all the paper work in the post. 2-3 weeks from when I got the acceptance email. So not expecting anything just yet.

Nick14, can you remember what docs you got in the post and how long it took?

Cheers!

[Halfbaked_Boy]

g1344304,

Thanks very much for that, I'll have a good time reading it :ok:

[nick14]

Yes,

Nothing. I have recieved only emails, one the acceptance email and the most recent one is the licence conversion.

I spoke to a friend who had called brookfield and he said they were drawing up the contracts for us that we should be getting in the next few weeks.

Nick

[bornfree]

Just wondering if there are any downsides (short or long-term) to having to convert to an Irish licence as part of the cadet recruitment process at Ryanair? Useful to hear from those who have been through this.
bf

[zerotohero]

Your OPC does not last as long on a JAA, some end of the month plus 6 month thing, the IAA one means your in the sim a little less.

I have been flying for nearly a year on the JAA though, my IAA is ready just need to go pick it up, you have to get one as per your contract.

[whizzer]

Just a quick note for those thinking about converting ur JAA to IAA.
Once u have got ur type rating from SAS or CAE make sure u get it on ur JAA licence first before u get it converted.
It costs a whole lot less doing it that way rather than converting then ading it on to ur new IAA licence.....i only found this out when i was sitting in the IAA office n dublin....AAARGGGHHH !!!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

[nick14]

We have been requested to get the licence converted before TR course.

How much more expensive.......

[Rikki]

Hi guys and Gals,

I dont mean to intentionally rehash anything that has been already stated in this thread but im dying for some info on RYR.

I want to know if anyone knows if they are taking ANY experienced FO's at the moment. I have 1800hoursTT and 1500 of that is on a JAR25 A/C (Avro RJ).

I do not have a 737 rating.

I know that there is no way in the door of RYR without one so i would have to self fund myself and pay the 30K ish for a rating.

Would i then go in as a low hour guy or would there be an element of a fast track through the line training and onto a decent wage or is it as if i had 200 hours? i.e. 90 sectors and 65euro per block hour?

Any genuine info would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers

R

[Donfranco77]

Hi eveybody...I have the ass. the 17th of March (ten days from now), if some other guys/girls will have it in the same day please contact me to share infoes :)

[zerotohero]

Rikki

You would probably do your line training on the 45euro rate, not sure how many sectors you would require having JAR25 hours but say the normal 70 rate to be safe, after that you would go on to the higer rate of 85.50Euros an hour for greater than 1500 Jar 25 hours.

but I suspect that because you wont be a cheap option as F/O for the company for the normal year + you wont get the job! I hope I am wrong there, but Ryanair is a money making machine and as there not short on 250hr applicants that will be cheaper for longer I dont see you getting a look in.

I really hope I am wrong, Good luck.

[smith]

I know that there is no way in the door of RYR without one so i would have to self fund myself and pay the 30K ish for a rating.



I believe you have to apply online (and pay the fee), be invited for assesment (and pay the fee), be interviewed and sim assessed, then be accepted on an approved type rating course.

I don't think it is possible just to spend 30k on the type rating and get employed, there is a selection process you know?

[g1344304]

Is it true that you are bonded to brookfield for two years after completing your TR?

[jimsmitty01]

Does anyone know where I can get hold of a Boeing 737-800 Computer Based Training CD?

Willing to pay a bit for it, would really appreciate any leads. I want to get ahead of the game for my TR which is in the coming months.

Thanks alot,

[downwind]

get this;

http://www.cpat.com/p-programs.aspx?pid=6

[nick14]

Thanks for the link downwind!:ok:

looks good but at $375 and $70 postage its a little out of my price range when I will be paying again in May.:ugh:

N

[nick14]

what is this bit*cough* torre*cough* stuff? I have a feeling its a download thingy...

Hear it branded around by a few people, obviously being very carefull in terms of legalities etc.......

Might have to google something,

N:E

[SW_US]

Ryanair hiring US Citizens?

[nick14]

Got a JAR licence?

They might do if you have

Nick

[SW_US]

Nope, just the standard issue FAA tickets. Hopefully ICAO gets rid of this ridiculous FAA & JAA not being compatible nonsense soon.

[LAX]

SW_US

If you have a command on the 737 and the right to work in Europe the answer is yes. You will have to get your licence indorsed by the IAA. 12 months from that date you will be expected to sit all 14 of the JAR written exams to get your full JAR licence issued.

If:

You dont have a command on the 737.
The right to work in Europe - ie marrying some bimbo (like marryin some mexican gal to get a green card).

Then think you will be struggling.

Good luck

[quant]

guys you need to read the following:

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/365373-robert-mugabe-pb-ryanair-gets-pilots-vote-yes.html

[Mr M.]

Good morning,

I received las friday an e-mail from CAE requiring my CV, could I expect to be called these days??

Thanks.

[Johny Cash]

hello everybody,

I have recently applied for Ryanair and they have answered me, that they do not need pilots now. I applied through the CAE website as I'm applying for the cadet program. I'm copilot on King Air with approx. 1500 hr TT. Was it the wrong way? Do I still have to fill in the application form of Ryanair on the website and pay for the 50 pounds or €? To me the application form on the website is only for captains. Somebody can tell me a possible reason. Have they stopped recruiting now?

Appreciate any response

[Topper_Harley]

Johny Cash,

I got a call for assessment very recently and a mate of mine was just offered a spot on the TR course so they are recruiting. It appears RYR never seem to stop recruitment completely from what I have experienced through people I know and have trained with etc.

As for your question on if your applying through the correct route, I have no idea. All I casn tell you is I applied as a cadet directly to the recruitment officer which was the advise given to me by the flight school I attended. As your a FO, I cannot say if thats the route of enquiry you should take or not.

[Zlin246]

hey there,

Anyone recently get offered TR starting 24th Aug EMA/7th Sept CAE? Looking to get in touch with anyone thinking of sharing accomodation. Would be great if we could get a group together.

Cheers,

[bananaman2]

hello folks,

Just wondererd if anyone has been offered an assessment recently? was called by CAE a couple of weeks back and was told they would be forwarding my CV but have not heard anything since. A couple of mates of mine had an assessment a couple of weeks back but that's all i've got to go on.

Cheers

[TheGlide]

well the last Type Rating date as far as im aware is Oct .
Il be waiting 8months from passing assesment to starting the type rating
so i assume the next type ratings will be November ,
Surely there in no rush for recruitment at this early stage ...

[Mattman1907]

Anyone on the assessment day on 22nd of April?

[Bambe]

Cheapest sim in Europe....

Bruges Air College (http://www.brugesaircollege.be/)

When I went there I only met people preparing their Ryanair sim. So far, they all passed! The instructor is amazing (Retired pilot from the Sabena, thousands of hours on type).

[someday somehow]

bambe, do you know whats the easiest and cheapest way to get to bruges from uk?

[Airsey]

So does anyone know whether the TR course is 7-8 weeks from the date of induction, or from the date of the continuation of training after the induction week (if you know what I mean).

AS

[vlieger]

bambe, do you know whats the easiest and cheapest way to get to bruges from uk? Cheapest, fastest and most convenient way would be to take the Eurostar from London (Kings Cross). 59 pounds return if booked 2 weeks in advance, plus included in the ticket is a train ticket to any Belgian station, so you get to Bruges easily.

[nick14]

The induction week is just that, the actual Type rating starts on the week following, I think its around 6-8 weeks depending.

Nick

[Mikehotel152]

Hi Guys and Girls,

What is the view on paying for sim test prep, particularly if you have done a FFS MCC and are short on time before the assessment day?

Many thanks,

MH152 :ok:

[bfisk]

Well I didn't do any sim practice (did MCC in king air FNPT2 a few months earlier), no prob, although the interviewers wondered why I didn't prepare for the sim. Did buy a force feedback joystick for MSFS and did some basic attitude flying, worked a treat, got accepted, but got a better offer in between so I turned RYR down.

Also be aware of the following, which I think may be the case, although this is pure speculation: on the assessment day, "all of us" arrived early (20-30 minutes-ish) and "all of us" were in nice suits, very polished and clean. "All of us" were non-airline-experienced, experience ranging from 200hrs to around 2000hrs flight instructing/caravan/etc. At the last moment a few other "candidates" showed up, all casual dressed, claiming to have thousands of hours airline experience. All nice fellows though. They followed along the brief/chart discussion etc along with the rest of us, but in retrospect they seemed very interested in us, how we interpreted the charts etc. They were paired and no one saw them later (to my knowledge).

Now these chaps may have genuinely been there for a direct entry command assessment, OR they could in fact have been part of the assessment. Checking out communication skills, group dynamics, etc etc. Anyone else having seen anything similar??

[Mikehotel152]

Cheers, interesting comments bfisk. :ok:

[Stelios1984]

Hi, just a quick one... does anyone know of the preferred method Ryanair use for letting people know if they have passed an assessment? Be it positive or negative?

[Lexico]

If it's negative they will send you an email... If its positive they will phone you, may ask you another HR question though over the phone before saying you have been accepted, but I think by that time you are in already. They asked me a few questions on the phone before saying I had passed the assessment. Good luck to you! :ok:

[Swinglow]

If negative they will email you. If positive they will give you a call but it will usually take at least a weak to get the call. I think the email comes within days after, but I'm not sure. Of course this is a generalization, probably not true for every case....
A couple of nervous days checkin' the inbox:\

[Lyndon24]

Hmmm if u do fail,..are u able to apply again? If so is there a time period?? Or once failed need not apply?

[DeltaTangoCork]

You can re-apply after twelve months of your original assessment, apparently it's not too uncommon either!

[Mikehotel152]

probably not true for every case....

What if there's no decision in over two weeks? :uhoh:

[Alltheway]

Hi, Hope you don't mind the pm.

I have a RyanAir Assessment next Thursday and wondered what questions HR asked you on the call back please?

Any help greatly appreciated.

[Alltheway]

Hi, Hope you don't mind the pm.

I have a RyanAir Assessment next Thursday and wondered what questions HR asked you on the call back please?

Also, any questions you may remember from the Technical and HR side would be great.

I know there are posts but your the most recent.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Happy Flying.

[Rob1975]

I think one of the first questions is... do you intend joining BALPA? :eek:

[BigNumber]

Surely the first question is 'are your finances are in place!?' :}

[TheGlide]

cmvidini All the questions they ask you can find with the search function .
They havent changed much .
Be more worried about the sim!!Its hard to control the beast ..
In the interview you can still get answers wrong and they will take you on.
i think there just looking to see your personallity...

[TheBeak]

On PPJN it says that Ryanairs policy is not to Re-Hire, what exactly does this mean? I know that PPJN is not FACT necessarily. But to pay £30K for a TR, get paid next to F all on a type that is getting more and more pointless to have on your licence and then just get slung out? You'd have to be crazy......How long is the contract on offer, offered for? Has anyone not been re-hired from it?

[Alltheway]

FAO - The Glide. Do you have a word document with them all on, i've started compiling but to search through all the cra* is taking an eternity.

The Beak - Can find the info your referring to. Can you provide a link please? Its something i'll certainly ask next week.

[thebeast]

Beak what ppjn refers to is that if you leave for another company but then for whatever reason try to return to Ryanair its unlikely you will get back into Ryanair (although in some cases it has happened).

[TheBeak]

Ah ok, that's fair enough I guess!

cmvidini just check www.ppjn.com (http://www.ppjn.com)

[Alltheway]

The Beak, I'm reading differing opinions on Brookfield Vs RyanAir Contracts. Would you happen to know the differences/preference please? In short, how long would the Brookfield contract be for upon completion and what is the pay scale.

Thanks again.

[TheBeak]

I don't fly for Ryanair so I couldn't give you a definitive answer. Having read what I read on PPJN, I had a look on the Ryanair cadets scheme through the Oxford TRTO. Within there it says:

Successful candidates are then offered an opportunity to fly for Ryanair on a full time basis following successful completion of the B737-800 type rating course.


Full time does not mean permanant though. So beware.

As I understand Brookfield contracts are the only contracts on offer to cadets starting right now. So again, beware. Correct me if I am wrong on that one though.

I'd be interested to hear how long a contract people are actually offered with the Brookfield contract? Is it a rolling 6 or 12 month contract? Or does it not need any renewal?

I don't suppose it really matters, if they want you to go, they'll just work you so little that you can't afford to stay. I am sure it hasn't happened yet but standby......

[MVE]

I hear that Ryanair are now laying off Brookfield pilots at the end of their 6 month contracts, coincidentally when they have to pay them more! surprise surprise.

[Alltheway]

Dear MVE,

Where did you hear this, i'm going for assessment tomorrow and would like more information.

[smith]

I hear that Ryanair are now laying off Brookfield pilots at the end of their 6 month contracts, coincidentally when they have to pay them more! surprise surprise.

Best thing that FR has ever done if true. It may stop all these little wannabe's prostituting themselves and ruining the industry for all the decent people.

[MVE]

A colleague on the flight deck has 3 friends from flight school who have all been put on 6 months unpaid leave just when they were due to go on to the higher pay rate and they have been told not to expect a vacancy at the end of the 6 months.....you would have to be bonkers to go anyd work for these people or beyond desperate!

I predicted this would happen a couple of months ago, I said it would be in Ryanairs interest to keep people running through their type rating scheme (and making a profit off them by overcharging for the course) and lay people off at the end of the 6 months when they would cost them significantly more!
sadly seems I was correct....:mad:

It is easy for me (and others) who have jobs and seniority in a company to tell you youngsters or less experienced individuals not to work for these people but you must wake up and smell the coffee when it comes to this company!

[Callone]

Hy Guys any report about experienced copilot called for the selection process?
I am 4500 hrs total and i would like to apply if there is any chance

Thank for the info
:}

[Mikehotel152]

Best thing that FR has ever done if true. It may stop all these little wannabe's prostituting themselves and ruining the industry for all the decent people.

:confused:

That's an obnoxious comment. Revelling in others' misfortune is hardly an attractive personality trait and one commensurate with being a 'decent' person. If you are a commercial pilot, smith, you too were a 'little wannabe' once upon a time.

And it's hardly the fault of those who aspire to a career in commercial aviation that the industry is on its knees, with the only feasible way in being via Ryanair and similarly exploitative airlines.

[TheBeak]

Callone, you could be in with a shot by chance. Only for a few months though......

From PPJN:

85 First Officers needed for next three months - email [email protected] with full CV, JAA FCL, Class One Medical euro zone passport and covering letter.

......that said you will need to be 737NG rated.

Good Luck.

[smith]

my terms and conditions and pension have totally been eroded since fr came along. I feel like a bus driver now and its all down to the mercenary fr cadets. I refuse to fly with anyone who "pays to fly" my bosses don't like it but hey ho. A pilot who owe's £70-100k then gets paid peanuts or else has to pay for line hours can't, repeat can't, have their mind fully focused on their job what with loan repayments, mortgage/rent repayments, council tax, gas, leccy, food etc etc etc its just not safe unless your daddy is Donald Trump.

Any of you wannabe mercenaries come on the flight deck with me, don't expect a warm welcome, coz ur ruining my salary etc.

Anyway if you really want to get in then get punted out in six months, go for it, it will be worth it in the long run .......... NOT!!!

[jimsmitty01]

So Smith.... how did you start your career then? What's keeping you on your high horse?

[smith]

I am on my high horse because I wasn't bent over a barrel by management, got respect from management, didn't pay a penny for type or line training, got a fair remuneration for my work and didn't have to pay for a bottle of water off the cart, my uniform or a hotel room when I was away from base. Is that fair enough.

The problem is the fr wannabe's are ruining that for everybody including themselves.

[Mikehotel152]

Yes, it's fair that you shouldn't have to pay for your bottle of water and we all know that terms and conditions have deteriorated over the last 50 years. What you fail to point out is that terms and conditions have deteriorated in all industries over the last 50 years.

Nevertheless, you ought to go and grind your axe elsewhere. As you know - unless you've had your head in some deep sand - we haven't much choice in the matter if we want to fly for a living. You weren't bent over a barrel because there wasn't a barrel back then.

It's very odd that you should spend your spare time denigrating young pilots on a Wannabe forum. Your personal attacks on fellow victims of this :mad:ppy situation and your holier-than-thou attitude merely reflects poorly on you, not us.

[Stelios1984]

Mikehotel152

I COMPLETELY AGREE, and I'm sure you speak for many of us.

"I didn't pay for this, I didn't pay for that..." well good for you that I'm sure you managed to start your career in better times - congratulations. If this is your attitude, then I'm sure NOBODY would like to get in the cockpit with you. I would certainly turn around and refuse to fly with an egoist such as you as it would compromise passenger safety.

If, as you say, people are (have) prostituting themselves, then how can others compete? Like me, I would rather not pay for a Type Rating, however, I am faced with this or watching my colleagues and many other people jump ahead of me and possibly never get my dream job.

The fact of the matter is, with Ryanair, you see what you get, if it's not for you then hey. However, I'm hopeful I will suitably impress, fly a brilliant aircraft, for an extremely strong and expanding company, and be with them for many years and in turn actually earn back EVERY PENNY of the type rating cost in tax rebate.

I say good luck to any cadet, in such hard times anyone who manages to have even a sniff of a job deserves to be happy. It's hard work out there.

[TheBeak]

and in turn actually earn back EVERY PENNY of the type rating cost in tax rebate

How does that work then?

[smith]

In a lot of us BALPA member unionised airlines there are many captains who refuse quite rightly to fly with cadets who pay for line hours or do them for free. We actually think that a young lad with thousands and thousands of pounds debt hanging over him is more dangerous than any of us egotist pilots you talk about.

Can you imagine the PA to passengers "and my first officer who is paying us to fly you to Benidorm today is......."? half of the plane would walk off!!!

You can dress it up all you want and I sympathise with you in these current times but its just not right. And remember its not a career you are starting with FR its 6 months before you are chucked on the scrapheap and another lamb to the slaughter takes your place.

My mate from Uni graduated with a first class law degree, at the time there was no jobs for him in the area he wanted to work at, did he go running to the law firms saying he would pay to work for them? NO. Did he wait until the job he wanted came along?YES. Are him and his colleagues now charging £150 an hour for their services? Do they have great pension schemes? YES (well until recently :O lol), do they have a free water fountain in the office?YES.

Listen guys, I understand your plight and wish you all the best, I really do, just so long as it doesn't affect my T's&C's somewhere down the line which one day ultimately it will.

[MVE]

Hear Hear Smith, there are those that read experience as ego and common sense advice as trying to put a stop to their 'dream' job. There won't be any dream jobs left if Ryan are able to recruit naive kids willing to pay for that 'dream' job! :ugh:
You are not employed by Ryanair you are contracted by another comany, you have zero employement protection and zero influence over your T's and C's, frankly the only influence you have is how far you bend over before you get shafted by o'loadmouth and don't quote me how much you get paid to justify working for that outfit when you have pension, parking, food, water, hotels, medical, uniform holidays etc etc to pay for....:mad:

[Mikehotel152]

Smith,

While I don't agree that it's entirely fair, I think your latest post articulates your views more diplomatically that the first one! :)

Nevertheless, many would find your point about not wishing to fly with pilots bearing mountains of debt, somewhat odd. For many years pilots have been joining legacy carriers and turboprop operators alike after graduating from integrated FTOs costing over £50,000. Inexperience and stress are undoubtedly dangerous, but having a job and being paid enough to make your loan payments is a great tonic!

It is a career many of us are starting. Whatever the unsubstantiated rumours about the scrapheap on 500 hours, I think most cadets would not hesitate to take the 500 hours and the possibility of a long term job with Ryanair over unemployment with no means to repay their stressful debt.

I'm pleased that your mate finally got the job he wanted in the Legal industry. He is a case in point. Tenacity and sacrifice are two valuable characteristics and your mate's story is echoed in the lives of many 'wannabe' pilots who are chasing every opportunity to get on the first step of the career ladder. But the legal profession is a different kettle of fish. Your mate's qualifications didn't expire after a year or so and his debt wasn't as high as that carried by pilots.

But talking about terms and conditions in other industries, the career path for a lawyer is typically:

A-Levels - free but no earnings.
Degree - £15,000 debt.
Law School - £10,000 debt.
Similar challenge getting a training contract as getting a first job in aviation, followed by:
Trainee Solicitor (1st year) - £12,000 pay.
Trainee Solicitor (2nd year) - £13,500 pay.
Newly qualified Solicitor - £21,000 pay.
After 3 years and charging £150 per hour to clients - £30,000 pay.

Of course, your mate may be working in the City of London earning a lot more than your typical High Street lawyer. That said, all lawyers are trained to the same standards and, except for those who have rich parents, all make the same financial sacrifices. With the global slowdown, it's harder than ever to get into the legal profession, but the costs of doing so are higher than the example I give above. Lawyers and pilots actually face a similarly cr:mad:ppy start to their careers. More experienced lawyers don't spend their time denigrating wannabe lawyers! :E

MVE - Nobody said working for Ryanair was the 'dream', but making a start in the industry is. But thanks for your constructive comments. Slating Ryanair is easy, getting a job in Aviation isn't.

[GAQ]

Just wanted to say hi to the guys who were at the assessment Thursday the 28th of May.
Hope that you got a positive ansewers! :ok:

Cheers!

[Alltheway]

Hi GAQ,

Were you offered a place?

[GAQ]

Hey cmvidini (http://www.pprune.org/members/63167-cmvidini)!

Yeah, they called me the day after and said I passed. Just waiting for a TR date. Think it'll be quite some time. At least six months if I've understood everything correctly. (They didn't say though)

Were you there?

[Alltheway]

Yep I was there. I've been offered a cheaper Type and Job Opportunity, still on the 737 so taking that instead. Wish you all the best - Try to get a RyanAir contract after the TR, you'll have less chance of being furloughed when its time for them to start paying you.

[GAQ]

cmvidini (http://www.pprune.org/members/63167-cmvidini):

Ok! That sounds good! Where are you gonna do the TR and how much is it?

For the moment I'm just happy to have been accepted =).
Heard from a friend within Ryan that they were gonna expand quite a bit next year (but you never know), so I'll just hang around 'til they give me a call.


Cheers!

[Swinglow]

That would be after safety pilot released since you are paid during line training, although they deduct 20e/psbh until line check is passed.

[Alltheway]

Do you know what the pay is during Line Training?

[Swinglow]

60e/psbh - 5,5 for sim - 20 for l/t =34,5e/psbh

[Alltheway]

Thanks, how many hours/month are usual?

[Day_Dreamer]

I am looking for "Proof" not rumour that RYR are laying off pilots (Cadets) after they reach their 500 hour payrise.
It would be a major factor in the decision making process for low hours pilots either Integrated or Modular.

Currently my research supports the fact that, Pilots are not being laid off or having their yearly hours significantly reduced upon reaching the 500 hour point.
The only pilots that I have heard of who are at risk, are those who after 6 months, have not reached the required standard at their OPC, even these have been given more training at RYR expense, and I am glad to say are in a minority.
Some have failed to reach the standard on their type rating course and left the course, others have been asked to undertake more training at their own expense.

Those of you who think that if you can pay, you get a job are sadly deluded as there is a standard set in RYR as in all other airlines, below which you simply fail the course paying or not.
RYR standards are some of the highest in the industry LoCo or Legacy.

Further research has shown that most air carriers in Europe would happily have SSTR's as they are more cost effective and offer less risk to the company.
So I consider that they are here to stay in one form or another, call it what you like Cadet programs or SSTR's.

My T&C's over the years have been reduced (erroded) long before LoCo's appeared in Europe, mostly due to the CAA changes in F.T.L's post Bader report.
Even today they are being attacked by the bean counters in management, and nothing has been done through union representation.
I.E. Lets this change go through or we must make redundancies !!!!

Those of you who can factually answer my questions please reply, others who might know someone etc, please keep it zipped as without fact I am not interested.

[Rhodes13]

Day Dreamer haven't heard anything at all about this and believe me IF it were happening the cockpit FM would be all over it and we would be hearing about it till the cows come home. Mentioned it to friends and haven't heard anything either so as far as I'm aware not true.

But hey let people make uninformed speculation after all if you believe some people we are take your pick a) whores, b) scum etc etc and have single handedly bought aviation to its knees. :eek:

[Day_Dreamer]

Rhodes13
As a group Ryanair pilots are some of the finest men and women in the Industry.
Much of what we read on here is sour grapes and people who jump on a bandwagon to brighten their sad lives.
Too many persons seek to make RYR the cause for all aviation's ill's, but are too jaundiced to see through the wood for the trees.

As for union membership its a personal matter and only the individuals can make that decision.
There are two sides to every argument, but in the case of RYR its waters are muddied by the add concerns of the Brookfield pilots, and overseas contracts.
Outside of the UK unionisation needs to be on a country to country basis so collective negotiations for all the pilots cannot work, even with the consent of the employer who in this case will be obstructive and are based in another country.

The only way for this to work are local councils for each country with elected representatives negotiating directly with management, possibly associated with IFALPA.

RYR is currently the only main employer in town, so they can and will dictate the terms.
Those who join get exactly whats on the box, no more no less, ultimately a fairly paid job in new aircraft.
Yes it should be the same for all but in a downturn with more demand than jobs, I cannot see there being any change until the reverse is true.

[Hobbit]

DayDreamer, while most of what you say is true, Ryanair does not necessarily give what they promise. In my short time with Ryanair (3 years) my contract was altered at least every 4 months and never to my benefit! They were only small changes, but each one nibbled away at my terms and conditions.

Now the 5/4, new aeroplanes and pleasant colleagues were great but the pervasive blame culture of management was neither attractive nor condusive to a safe operation in my opinion. This is an unquantifiable negative that would make me think twice before applying for my old job again.

Having said all of that, when one talks to American colleagues Ryanair is a fresh green pasture of opportunity so perhaps rather than damning those who agree to the Ryanair contract we should more encourage them to make their decision with eyes wide open?

[Day_Dreamer]

Hobbit

RYR is not the only management with a so called blame culture, or who are cutting T & C's.
It is becoming endemic in the industry. (Here people will blame RYR) but its not unusual as accountants rule the roost.
What can we do about fuel cost ? (Hedge) what can we do about other costs ? (Hit the easy targets Crew)

This is going off topic, so I shall say no more on the subject.

Those wishing to Join RYR it will be on a Brookfield contract, few if no RYR contracts being issued.
You know what is on offer, so its your choice take it or leave it !! but there are many out there to take your place.
As a cadet the choice is the unemployment que or a shinny new 737, great people to work with and a better salary than most other air carriers.

You know what your getting into, so its your choice !!!

[dand07]

Havent seen any activity regarding assesments etc on here for a while. Has anybody got an interview/assesment coming up ?

[Callsign Kilo]

I often try to be honest a possible about FR, in many cases I will let what is being said be said...but some of this is utter drivel. I'll take a few quotes of certain individuals replying to this thread.

And remember its not a career you are starting with FR its 6 months before you are chucked on the scrapheap and another lamb to the slaughter takes your place.

Utter sh1te. Where are these people who have been chucked out the door after 6 months in FR? In an airline with a rumour mill the size of O'Leary's gob, I have heard nothing..nout...nada on this subject. I have colleagues who are based throughout the FR network...not a whisper from any! To have a matter with such considerable extent not being openly spoken about internally is completely out of character in this organisation.

Something that I find quite ironic is that I have been in FR for nearly a year. Last month I did more hours than I have ever flown during my time at Ryanair. That figure even surpassed the amount that I flew during line training - when my hourly rate was at its lowest (Ohh, and by the way that was an hourly rate I was being paid...not the other way about). So that shoots this little ditty down in flames of glory.

Can you imagine the PA to passengers "and my first officer who is paying us to fly you to Benidorm today is......."? half of the plane would walk off!!!

And to be completely anal, Benidorm is a resort served by an airport called Alicante (ALC)!

And this one...And remember its not a career you are starting with FR

As much as Ryanair management are critisised (and often righty so I will add) their plans of expansion would be served a massive kick in the jacksy if they couldn't offer and indeed support a career path for it's pilots. Command Upgrades are occuring now....FACT. FOs are encouraged to enter the training department as SFIs.....FACT. TRI/TRE courses are being advertised internally....FACT. The Command Upgrade process is entered after 700 hrs in FR and your second sim after the initial LST....FACT.

In a lot of us BALPA member unionised airlines there are many captains who refuse quite rightly to fly with cadets who pay for line hours or do them for free.

Who is this BALPA member unionised airline that you so speak of....
...it cant be Easyjet, bmi, Thomas Cook or Astraeus. They have all had pay-as-you-fly schemes. Notably Ryanair haven't.

We actually think that a young lad with thousands and thousands of pounds debt hanging over him is more dangerous than any of us egotist pilots you talk about.

So no cadets...who do you work for then? Because the majority of cadets have debt and the majority of airlines employ or have employed cadets.

Listen guys, I understand your plight and wish you all the best, I really do, just so long as it doesn't affect my T's&C's somewhere down the line which one day ultimately it will.

Well if Ryanair pilots are all quite willing to be shafted then you are obviously willing to as well. Your T&Cs are not going to be directly effected by something Ryanair management does. They aren't the benchmark. Plus, if your T&Cs are so rightly important to you then use BALPA (you are a member, right?). That's what hundreds of Ryanair and BRK pilots are doing in the UK right now....FACT. They are fighting for T&Cs, choice of contract, the status of their profession.

What are you and others doing??...jumping on the 'it's all Ryanair's fault' bandwagon. That's one of the easiest things to do in the world. I am sick to the teeth of people from the outside pissing in, creating rumours to unsettle people and in turn suit their own agendas. You and others are totally correct, this airline isn't perfect...but show me one that is! At least there are people out there fighting for change rather than sitting on there arse adding to the lies and conspiracy theories that people seem to get a hard-on over!

[Vone Rotate]

Has anyone had a sniff at an assessment in the last couple of weeks?
I applied via CAE and was told to expect a telephone interview. They said if it does not come in 4 weeks I am to consider myself unsuccessful.:uhoh:

They also said recruitment has slowed right down however the 4 week rule still applies. I have a little over a week till my 4 weeks is up.

Any thoughts?

[MVE]

Boo Hoo :{ Callsign Kilo, You work for an outfit that whether you like it or not is ruining the industry for the rest of us!

As to Ryanair not having a pay to fly scheme, what the hell do you call paying for your type rating and 'cadet' flying for six months:mad:

[Callsign Kilo]

MVE - Boo Hoo...who the fecks crying? Except for you and all your mates who keep trumpeting on about big bad Ryanair and how Ryanair pilots are a bunch of cowards with no back bone!

If you want to harp on about 'pay-to-fly' then go back to the very beginning when you decided that you wanted to fly for a career. Unless you were in the RAF or were part of a pre 9-11 sponsorship scheme then you did exactly that. 'Payed to fly.'

And as for the TR. Well, you got me bang to rights on that one. I and everyone else had to pay for it. Do I regret it...no. Would I have prefered not to...absolutely. Maybe I should have been one of those people who should have stood up, wove a big stick in front of the industry and said 'no, I'm not paying for anything.' Then I would have been in the same place as I was for the 12 months after I finished my CPL/IR...nowhere!

So single handedly me and my mates have ruined the industry for you. Maybe you should take a step back and consider that maybe this industry is ruining itself. And where do you get this 6 months cadet flying crap from? Just another one of those mythical tales I'm afraid.

[Rosberg]

Hi,

I attended the assesment day in East Midlands at 5th February and fortunately got THE call confirming I had been selected for a type-rating course a little over a week later:). The first start date that they offered was in August, but two months later I got a call and was told that that course was cancelled and that the next available for me would be in October.

Anyone here that has been offered a TR course with start on 12th October? I was rather surprised to hear that the whole TR course would be held at East Midlands since I thought CAE and OAA in Stockholm were the only FTOs offering Ryanair TRs. Has anyone heard about courses beeing held at EMA? The facilities and instructors at least seemed very good during the assesment day.
Any suggestions about accomodation for approx. 2 months in that area?
Feel free to PM me with answers or questions concerning the matter.

Terveisiä (Finnish)

[Flyingstig]

Hi guys. I appreciate that most people here are going through this process at the beginning of their careers, and I sympathise! However, I am at the other end, and looking for a job. Does anyone have any ideas re the timescale etc for DE Capts?
I have applied on line and been put forward by Brookfield.

[smith]

Callsign Kilo

As long as you can hang out at the vegetable aisle at sainsbury's in your two gold bars and aviator shades, I am sure it will have been worth the £100k+.

[TheBeak]

It's a fair comment though I have nothing against Callsign Kilo. Some peoples greatest reason to be in this is for the status. And I didn't see any 'invite only' sign or rules for this thread.

I really am interested to know, how do you guys and girls pay for your TR after all the training costs? Just ask the bank you have used to increase your debt based on the job?

[TheBeak]

Do you want some ketchup for your chip mate? I think someone needs to settle down and their name rhymes with band07. It does matter why people do it, it really does, intention is everything. If someone is doing it for the status they are likely to be self obsessed and uninterested in personal improvement and development.

as long as they do that job professionally and most importantly safely.

Based upon my points above I would say they wont be safe in non-normal situations if they are in it for the status. They are unlikely to go the extra mile and really learn their aircraft or laws of the air. If they are in it for the love of flying then they are.

'Good tactics can save even the worst strategy. Bad tactics will destroy even the best strategy - General George Patton'

Tactics being the reason for the person being in the industry and strategy being the persons ability.


It's interesting that no one ever seems to answer the question - How did you manage to pay for your TR with Ryanair after having paid for all your training? Did you extend your loan with the same bank? I really am interested to know and for the amount of times I have asked it and it has been overlooked I am starting to think people are ashamed to answer.

[McNulty]

It's interesting that no one ever seems to answer the question - How did you manage to pay for your TR with Ryanair after having paid for all your training? Did you extend your loan with the same bank? I really am interested to know and for the amount of times I have asked it and it has been overlooked I am starting to think people are ashamed to answer.


Ashamed to answer? Maybe instead you should start to think that its none of your ****ing business how people pay for a type rating. Might explain why people dont answer your question.

Just for the record i went around mugging old ladies until i had enough money to pay for it. Was hard work but very rewarding.

[TheGlide]

Hi

Im a future cadet on a type rating course,could someone tell me the best area for accommadation near the airport in East Midlands ?I know there was a post somewhere on the best places but cant find it.

Regards

[TheBeak]

Maybe instead you should start to think that its none of your ****ing business how people pay for a type rating

McNulty you need your head read. I asked a simple question and you feel the need to resort to vulgarity. You have not only missed the point of working hard and being selected to do something but you have missed the point of what this thread is for. I was mearly asking as I am interested to hear if banks are willing to lend on the basis of a rolling contractural job offer after already lending so much.

Now to answer like that you VERY definately demonstrate the traits of shame and embarrassment. You, my friend , have the mother of all chips on your shoulder, I hope you don't take it into the workplace.


Just for the record i went around mugging old ladies until i had enough money to pay for it. Was hard work but very rewarding.

Alot of truth is said in jest. It wouldn't surprise me if you did.

[Mikehotel152]

How did you manage to pay for your TR with Ryanair after having paid for all your training? Did you extend your loan with the same bank? I

Even the Ryanair interviewers aren't impertinent enough to ask that question! :}

[Flyingstig]

I used to be a regular visitor and ocassional contributor on Prune. I have not been back for some years, and now I know why.
I posted a genuine enquiry hoping for some genuine info from a fellow professional.
Most of what I see is a lot peurile bickering, abuse and generally infantile posting.
What a shame.

[McNulty]

TheBeak: I dont understand what you mean when you say i missed the point about working hard and being selected to do something, can you clarify?

Anyway joking aside, my story is that i started training when the industry was booming not too long ago. During that time i knew people who were getting 4, 5 and more interviews after getting their ir. However by the time i finished oil cost around 150 and the recession was just hitting - and the airlines had stopped hiring.

I considered doing an instructors rating, because instructing had always interested me. However a couple of friends of mine that had not made it through the ryanair selection process had gotten instructor ratings and could not find any work. I sent hundreds of cvs and got absolutely zero interviews....except one of course. After passing the ryanair selection process i was pretty happy about it considering i had several friends who didnt make it and were now totally out of job options just like i would have been if i had been rejected.

Unfortunately the reality of having to pay for the rating wasnt quite so pleasing - so yes, the bank extended my loan on the basis that the type rating would lead to employment with ryanair. I'm not ashamed to admit it, i now get paid to fly 737s and shudder at the thought of the situation 99% of graduates find themselves in.

Would you have done differantly in my position? I have no qualifications other than my licences and would have faced most likely several years if not longer (or never) of waiting for another job opportunity. The type rating itself was tough....hard, hard work - but i made it through and passed the lst first time without having to pay for any extra training through sheer hard work and determination. I certainly felt shafted not getting at least some form of salary while i was putting in all that blood, sweat and tears so that i could go out afterwards and make money for ryanair - but hey, i had NO other options.

So there you go, im not ashamed - that was what i was faced with when i qualified and that isnt my fault or the fault of any other poor chump with 200hrs and a frozen atpl.

[TheBeak]

And that's a much better, informative response, so thank you.

TheBeak: I dont understand what you mean when you say i missed the point about working hard and being selected to do something, can you clarify?


If you are going to leave me to assume, I'll tend to assume the worst, it's just the way I am. However now you have offered a detailed response, I completely understand your situation, can see your point and agree you have done well to get all done without any 'extras'.

Don't be ashamed.

Cheers.

[Mikehotel152]

McNulty's story of hard work and sacrifice is actually more common than a lot of people realise, hence why we become a little prickly when accused of thoughtlessly ruining the industry for the more established players. Cast your minds back to when many of us were considering training to become commercial airlines pilots. Here are some quotes from pprune which helped us make up our minds to follow our dreams:-

...in fact the hiring market is red hot, the JAA Frzn ATPL is cheaper in real terms than the old CAP509 course was that it replaced and there has never been a better time to train...Competition for your first job is vicious and nasty. Nevertheless - the hiring market is as hot as it is likely to get.

and

...like me you might still self sponsor your way through the Modular route and become a debt free Captain on a modern jet before you are 30. It can be done.

These words were typed in July and October 2006 by a moderator well known to the Wannabe forums. In fairness, there were also many discenting voices even back then in 2006, but the mood was generally very upbeat and encouraging!

Times change, of course, but many people currently searching for jobs or taking the Ryanair route are not 'trolls'.

[Callsign Kilo]

Callsign Kilo

As long as you can hang out at the vegetable aisle at sainsbury's in your two gold bars and aviator shades, I am sure it will have been worth the £100k+.

Smith, that must be one of the most pathetic, childlike statements that I have seen on this website. Give yourself a tremendous pat on the back for coming up with that one! Again, yet another comment based on generalisations, assumptions and pettiness!

Needless to say, it suprises me little given the amount of sh1te that you spout about Ryanair and the airline industry in general!

[woofly31]

Has anyone out there recently followed the Brookfield cadet route or is currently just getting started that can confirm the pay and basing policy during training and after line check. Does the pay yo yo a great deal or can you feel safe that you won't be on the wrong side of the Bank Manager at the end of the Month. Do you get to suggest a choice of base or is it a lotto with an overseas post most likely for new joiners with a long wait to get to the base of your choice ?:ok:

[adwjenk]

woofly31,

Pay does yo yo and has done over the past 9 months I have been with the company, anything from 2.5k to 6.4k all these figures are before tax so please remeber tax and NI has to come out. But it does keep the bank at arms length with regards to the loans, but having a over draft is very useful!!

Base wise there is now a UK freeze so you will most likly be able to line train within the UK but for a base since there is no movement in or out of the UK you will be being based in mainland europe! These freeze is set to last till the end of the year where it will then be lifted or continued!

Good luck

[smith]

Kilo

Needless to say, it suprises me little given the amount of sh1te that you spout about Ryanair and the airline industry in general!

I feel that you are just trying to make youself feel better about the decisions you have made and convince yourself that you are right and I am wrong.

[Callsign Kilo]

Smith, my old chum...I need not convince myself of anything. I am perfectly happy with my career and indeed my projected path. As I said, and reiterate, Ryanair aren't perfect, however many of the imperfections are often outweighed by what I have experienced, achieved and can achieve in the airline. Other things could be improved and possibly might. In the meantime, no one is trying to convince anyone that FR is a career airline; however the skills that you develop here are transferable and desirable to any other. History proves that and many treat FR that way. Others don't, and remain happy with their lot.

To many, this is a balanced view of what Ryanair is. Something that you are incapable or indeed unprepared to grasp. I don't care what your reason is for doing so either, but I can probably make some assumptions based on your blatant displays of petulance. Good luck in your career, my old friend - with whoever or whatever that may be?? I hope no one from the 'outside' makes such an outspoken, cascading, ill-informed and biased attack on whatever you do or what choices you have made. :)

[Avadoo]

If you have 73NG Command experience Bob it will most likely be quite straightforward on the tech stuff, limitations, personal experience stuff etc.
I think for the experienced D/E guys its more about convincing them you will fit in, keep your head down and are able to fully adopt the company SOP's. (even recently some DE guys have found the latter aspect quite challenging)

Ryanair are just looking for guys to turn up, do a good job, on time, save a bit of fuel then take their money and go home. If that basic relationship suits you all should be well but if you are looking for Smoked Salmon, Vintage Malt, red carpets and a big pat on the back, then don't bother attending. HTH!

[somethink]

Hi guys

I have just completed training and have a JAA ATPL(f) Issued in the UK.

I understand from reading this thread that I would be required (obviously if accepted by Ryanair) to convert to an IAA license. Does this also mean that I need to pay for an IAA medical or is my JAA class 1 medical acceptable?

Thanks for any hekp on this.

[somethink]

With reference to my post above, my JAA Class 1 medical was issued in the UK.

Any help from Ryanair pilots (or anyone else) would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[jonjon]

they accept UK CAA class one...When transfering your licence, you'll have to call the CAA to transfer your medical file to the IAA, with a fee of £50.
Even once with your IAA licence, you can still get your recurrent check done it the UK and sent it off to the IAA...

hope this helps

[THD]

hey,

Is ryanair still doing assessments for cadets or is it on hold.

[stefair]

Hi,
Do people completing the RYR MCC with CAE in Amsterdam still have to do the sim ride in East Midlands? Thank you.

[stefair]

Can someone please shed some light on this? I take it you will have to do the sim assessment anyway, no? Thank you.

[FlyBoyFryer]

Stefair,

I suspect you will. In fact, I would go so far as to say... count on it!

I got severely messed around (could use more colourful language than that but it's a Sunday afternoon) by CAE in this respect when I did my RyanAir 737 MCC course with them last year February. Not only did they lie open-faced to us when I queried this which you're asking (i.e. would we have to undergo a sim ride check during the RYR interview - it had been specifically PROMISED to us that we wouldn't) but they then also took over 3 months to arrange that interview after we passed (which was no mean feat considering the crap instruction on offer). All of which meant recency of sim skills had pretty much gone out the window by the time I got to East Midlands for the interview proper. CAE even had the audacity to claim they had helped us out by saving us the cost of the sim ride... which we were never meant to take in the first place!! So, if you can keep smiling after being lied to AS WELL AS stay hot on a full motion sim after time away (your interview may not happen for months... you have to consider that it could take even longer than it did for the group I was in?!), good luck to you.

I acutally took the matter to a solicitor here in the UK (after being effectively lied to by CAE) - I was informed that I did have a legal case but it would be difficult to prove given international law and that it's not a simple case of mis-representation (it's more complicatedthan that but I won't bore you with the details here - PM me if you want to).

True's Bob - CAE got their highly paid lawyers to weasle their way out of it by sprouting all kinds of nonsense and then finally pointing me to a court of law in Belgium if I wanted to take things further. Obviously, the prospect of taking a large company to court in another country is daunting to say the least - consider the financial implications to begin with?

The cherry on the top? I still have copies of both CAE and RyanAir's website pages which connfirm that no sim ride would be necessary if you did the MCC with CAE - this information was still publicly listed after I had completed the MCC course! When my solicitor started formal correspondence with CAE, both companies very quickly changed their websites!

Critically, you will find no reassurance of not having to sit a sim ride after completing a CAE MCC on their websites now.

Again, and if you would like proof, PM me and I'll send you copies of the web pages they had before I kicked off all hell with them...

In Summary:

Avoid CAE at all costs is my advice - they are unscrupulous and don't give a flying monkey (excuse the pun) about trainees. Line 'em up, hose 'em down... move on! Rinse, repeat, et al.

[GAQ]

Hey guys,

I was accepted for the type rating with Ryanair in May of this year. Is there anyone who was accepted around that time that has heard anything about a course start?

Talked to my former school today and they said something about a course start in March next year, haven't heard anything from Ryanair themselves though.

Cheers!

[stefair]

Does anyone know when RYR will be running selections again?
Also, do you guys know whether the No Airline Experience requirement is strictly followed by RYR or have people with say a little TP experience still been invited for selection for the cadet program or does any airline experience automatically disqualify you from joining as FO? Thank you.

[Airsey]

No experience isn't a requirementat all? I had several hundred TP hours and was invited in for an assessment and got the job as an FO. But if you are rated on a TP, know it inside out because most of my questions were based on my aircraft, and they seemed pleasantly impressed with my answers. Sim ride didn't go fantastic for me, but i guess it went well enough to pass. So yeah, good luck and all the best for the future! :ok:

[jimmyjetplane]

Anyone been to they have to do the assessment again, if its been 12 months since their assessement....? even though the passed!! What a scenario that could be!!:ugh:

[jimsmitty01]

you have to do the sim assessment again if it has been more than 9 months since your original interview... even if you were successful the first time around..

[stefair]

Hi,
Would those of you having been invited for selection with RYR please state your age? I called CAE today and was denied an answer to that question so I am wondering why they were not allowed to say. Thank you. Much appreciated.

[TheBeak]

Stefair, of course they wouldn't be able to say. There are more than the average 'younger' people passing though there will of course be older people. There are more than the average Irish people passing though of course there are other nationalities. Just focus on yourself, your knowledge and your flying and hope with all your might that you are 'lucky' enough to get an interview. From the nature and number of your questions, you seem to be doing your own head in over this. You aren't going to force the situation. And you certainly aren't going to nail Ryanair on the grounds of discrimination or sus them out as to what profile they want - they do what they want, when they want, how they want - they are a monopoly - you win all the properties on one side of the board and put houses on them and you can be too. Then you'll see.

[GAQ]

Stefair;

I was accepted in May and I am 24 yo. It shouldn't matter too much how old you are, just go there and show them how it's done and you'll be fine!

/G

[stefair]

They did not say. All they said was RYR are continuing to recruit but at a slower pace. According to them - and I am not exaggerating - they have "several hundreds of suitable candidates to choose from"... Crazy. Plain crazy.

[AI101]

STEFAIR
Its not crazy but its the truth they do infact have a total of more than 500 cadets on their books, they have the upper hand and can choose who they like and the sims get tougher as time goes on.

[ask26]

If you have 1000 hours experience on the 737, does that pretty much rule you out of Ryanair (1300TT) or will CAE or whoever else does recruitment consider you?

[irishpilot1990]

What is the current situation with regard to people starting type ratings or in hold pool?
Are Ryanair conducting any/many interviews?
where are people on their line training having to move too?

P.S Question is not directed at people who are on to bad mouth ryanair and dont have any direct connection/experience to company.sick reading crap from people who are playing chinese whispers!!!:}

[Mikehotel152]

Type Rating courses are starting in November, December and January.

Interviews are taking place in the coming weeks.

First bases will probably be abroad, but we live in hope!

:ok:

[108.9]

Yep, should be going to Stockholm in Feb! :ok:

[jonnyboy102]

Is anyone else starting the TR on 25th Jan at EMA?

[Airbusfreak]

anybody get a call this week?????

[TheBeak]

They seem to be calling alot of people at the moment.

[Tim Wortley]

I'm posting this to tell my story and to hopefully spread some light and good news, rather than the usual doom and glom that usually plagues these forums!
I started my flight training with SAA in January last year, spent a year in the states, passed the ATPL first time, then went to Sweden between March and July this year, completed the CPL/ME/IR first time in Sweden. Did the Ryanair MCC at OAA in Stockholm. Then after 2 months of searching I had a phone call from Ryanair, I then did the assessment, passed the assessment and now I'm waiting to hear about the T/R, which is rumoured to be early in the new year.
So believe me it is possible to get a job as a cadet at the moment and good luck to anyone applying.
Keep the faith!

[greg_magnum]

Anyone going for the assessment on the 22nd oct???

[738fly]

Hi all,

I have had my start date for my Ryanair TR - 23rd Nov EMA / 7th Dec CAE, Just wondering if anyone else on here is starting then? Would be nice to get to know a few others pre-course :)

ps. Please no slagging about FR, I know what I am getting into thank you.

[nheke]

Hi!

Only for info, when did you the interview? I am saying that because I heard that they were very very delayed....

Thanks and good luck:ok:

[738fly]

Had the interview late April, Was told to expect a start date Nov/Dec but then I read all sorts of rumours on here and didnt expect to start until next spring, Fortunately got a call late Sept asking if I could make Nov! Very surprised, Can't wait :ok:

Cheers and good luck to you too whatever you are doing ;)

[douk2k]

I thought it would be a good idea to start this thread.

If you are on the Type rating course starting on 25th January please post on here.

Will be great to know who will be joining me!!!

All the Best

[9sampsona]

I am on the 25th jan course with TR in Stockholm! Join the group on facebook!

[GAQ]

Anyone starting the TR at EMA Jan 18 / Feb 1?

Cheap places to stay at during the TR at EMA?

[Rank_Ace]

Anyone starting type on feb 15/ march 1 in EMA

Send me a message

[Wetstart]

Does anyone start in March? Send me a pm to share infos

[dand07]

Same applies anyone starting type rating 15th march amsterdam contact me!

[fpuentegomez]

Hi all,
I'm a low hour cadet (225 hrs), just came out of school, and I'm considering RYR as a true alternative.
I would like that people who have taken the assesment/sim/interview, would give an estimate of the price they have paid for everything (assesment fee, housing, means of transport used), but just of the selection process.
TIA

[chesthair]

Starting the course

[Mikehotel152]

You are all whores. Thanks for dragging this industry into the gutter.

Obviously one of life's intellectuals.

[LAX]

ipokijuhyt

oh dear. Love them or hate them probably the only airline in europe hiring and promoting right now. Guys can accept the terms and conditions or decline them.....probably the best thing to do given the cost. Their choice.

But, as an American is it fair to say by taking a job in europe you are ultimately stopping someone at the bottom of the ladder getting their first step in the job market here? Supply and demand?

Engage your brain my friend before calling people w-@?es

[antonov09]

"You are all whores. Thanks for dragging this industry into the gutter"




Very generalistic post by yet another idiot on this forum.

[Allioth]

Hi to all,
I've been invited to the assessment day by Ryanair on the 18th of December in Stansted.
Anyone else for that date? If yes, let me know and we can meet! It will be a lot easier if we know eachother before the sim!
I'm also going to Brugge (Belgium) for a sim preparation next monday and tuesday (7th and 8th) of december. That sim costs 85 euros an hour with the instructor included... Anyone intrested?
Hope to hear from someone else!!
Regards!
Allioth

[smith]

Very generalistic post by yet another idiot on this forum

Not really, I happen to agree with the post.

[TheBeak]

I loved the post, concise and to the point!

[antonov09]

I happen to disagree with you. But thats democracy. Is that concise enough for you Beak?

[smith]

Very true antonov, we all have the right to make up our own minds.

Are you or are you trying to be a ryanair mule?

[mad_jock]

Point of order.

I am led to believe by colleagues that whores charge for there services.

So I can't really see how it could apply to ryan air cadets.

[smith]

Antonov

No not and never will be a ryanair mule.

Mad Jock

A whore allows herself to be defiled by her "employer".

A ryanair mule allows his/herself to be defiled by their employer!!!

[blackred1443]

According to irishpilot
Most of the guys with issues are guys who had experience elsewhere, and hence Ryanair do not want...jealousy is a bitch!

What are they jealous of - the fact you have to pay a specified accountant 3% of your gross salary per annum and a one off fee of 500 euro to set up your company,no sick pay, no permenant contract, no loss of licence, no holiday pay, no pension, no guarantee of hours per month, the dodgy tax affairs, pay for your own lpc/opc,the 33k this costs you,the fact your actions are having a direct effect on t&c across the industry,the fact your or mummy and daddys bank balance had as much to do with you getting the job as did your performance during your sim check,or the fact you had to pay for your sim check and interview

As for the experienced 737 pilots who have the misfortune to be unemployed right now, they are probably desperate for a job but dont for a minute fool yourself into thinking many of them are jealous of you
They maybe very annoyed about what is happening in the industry as a result of these pay to fly schemes that ryr and the rest offer but i doubt they are jealous.

Not 6 years ago my friend i got my first job flying a jet, i got paid from day one, i got put up in a hotel during my type rating,line training and for a month after my line training had finished to allow me time to find my own accomodation, i had a pension,private health care, loss of licence holiday pay, sick pay, and i didnt have to pay for my type rating.
I basically got everything you don't get.Now thats something worthy of jealousy

Be under no illusion irish pilot you employer thinks nothing of your worth, he sees you a someone who legally must sit in the right seat,and sees how recruiting you is a source of revenue nothing more. He doesnt rate your contribution as a pilot or believe in your worth, hence your terms and in my opinion you agreed with him when you signed the contract.He doesn't offer sick pay because he doesnt care if you fall ill, cant work, cant pay your mortgage,car loan etc. Many will feel sorry for your naivety, but very few are jealous.

To answer your question, no i wouldn't be at home sitting on my bum waiting for the next boom. I tend not to sit at home on my bum just because things are going wrong. There are other options. Before you tell me ryr are they only employer in a planet in a world of nearly 7 billion people, people don't.

Take care

[antonov09]

Blackred1443 you make reference to "mummy and daddy" in your previous post with regard to paying for training etc. I know plenty of Ryanair guys that funded their training by themselves and were not reliant on "mummy and daddy". They did that to help and enhance their careers. A lot of them are now both sfi's and captains. Yes they don't have sick pay, yes they don't have pensions, yes they don't have holiday pay.
But what do they have?
Well they have have lot of hours on the 737, they are paid very well( a hell of a lot more than me! and I have pension, sick pay, and holidays), and they all genuinely enjoy what they do and really enjoy working for Ryanair. And if all goes tits up with Ryanair they will f:mad:k off out to the far east because they have loads of Jar 25 time. The point is they wont be sitting here in 3 or 4 years time still waiting for something to happen renewing their MEIR;s.Various points you bring up are just not true! E.G. previous quote from Blackred--- Ryanair interview/simulator assessment- £1000. You were in fact £740 out. :ugh:

[smith]

Antonov, you talk a load of ****e!!!

They did that to help and enhance their careers.

Diminish their careers don't you mean?????

Even the check-out girl in ASDA gets a sick pay, pension, uniform and doesn't have to sleep in her car in the carpark.

WAke up and stop talking out your arse!!!!!!!! ( * )

[One9iner]

:ugh:I love a good tart

[antonov09]

You sound like a girl thats just come on her period. Sleeping in cars. What the F:mad:k are you on about. What a load of bollox.

[TheBeak]

I disagree Antonov, I think Smith makes perfect sense. And that isn't me having something against you personally. Putting monetary values aside, how can a company justify making their workers pay for their uniform? It's absurd when they are posting 200 million + Euro profits.

If you don't think that Ryanairs bubble is going to burst, then why do you think MOL has talked about leaving in 2-3 years time? See:

Ryanair Boss Will Quit In Three Years | Self-Catering-Breaks News (http://www.self-catering-breaks.com/news/52421545.html)

O?Leary to leave Ryanair in about 3 years (http://www.asap.co.uk/news/o%E2%80%99leary-to-leave-ryanair-in-about-3-years-5634607.html)


Ryanair CEO says expects to quit in 2-3 years | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSGEE5AR04J20091128)


He knows. 'Rats always flee a sinking ship' as they say. This business model is a very short term, overly engineered pile of crap. Ryanair is literally infecting every airline in most corners of the world. And do you think that 3000 on a 737-800 with Ryanair is going to help you get into an airline beyond Ryanair? Do you know anyone that was at Excel? Maybe 6 years ago it might have but not anymore. The wonderful Ryanair put an end to that being possible when they showed the industry that there are enough cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell ends out there that are willing to spend an extortionate amount of money to legally do what an expensive, relatively experienced FO can do for pay. You lot have bitten the hand that feeds you. As always inertia is a key factor here and for something this large, you wont feel the effects of what you have done for a little while. But when you feel it, there'll be nothing you can do - at least you'll have realised your 'dream'. Don't take all this personally, I am sure in a bar or a a cockpit we'd all get on well (though no doubt some 19 year old Ryanair 'pilot' who is going through adolescence will say otherwise), you are doing what you need to do, but you really are ruining it for the rest of us and for yourselves in the future. Enjoy it while it lasts.

As for the sim costing a grand or £260 - unless you live at the location it's will cost you anywhere between £20 and a few hundred to get there, you may need a hotel too. I don't suppose they provide lunch either or a drink do they? No? I didn't think so. It all adds up.

If they needed you, they'd pay for you.

[lucair84]

Hi all,

first post on pprune... about to start my MCC at CAE on 1st feb...i havent booked anything, but thats what i really think would be best. Doesn anybody advise me better parc aviation? I really want to get a job now, as all of you, have spent way to much money for this training, and things as ive heard are going very bad. I have lotsa friends flyin for RYN and everyone is happy. They are obvs all young as i am. Any hint you can give me? U recon it would be better for me then to do it at cae? Ive heard that if ur performance on the course are standard (read excelent) they can arrange an interview... Has anybody did MCC there? Thanks everybody, take care all.:)

[FlyBoyFryer]

Firstly, hello to you Lucair84 and welcome to PPRuNe, I trust you'll enjoy the community!

As for the information you've requested re: a MCC at CAE, I would draw your attention to a recent former post of mine:

#1425 (http://www.pprune.org/5187281-post1425.html) (permalink (http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/222538-ryanair-interview-sim-assessment-merged-72.html#post5187281))

If you've already booked the course and/or have your heart set on it, I just hope you have a better experience with CAE than I and the others on my course did.

As for Parc Aviation, a friend of mine completed his MCC with them instead of CAE. He seemed happy enough with the instruction, course material and equipment used. I do believe, however, the 737 sim they made use of then was an older model (737-200, could be wrong) so it didn't have Flight Directors on the PFD... something you can expect to work with during the RyanAir interview, assuming you get one!

All the best,

Ciao!

[lucair84]

Flyboy

Thank you very much for ur hints, i did hear that parc uses the 737 200 so no FD on PFD, but as you said thats what the interview is based on (if I do get one) while CAE uses the 800's. Im pretty confident I will, i hate being negative about all this right now even if i ve heard way too much stuff... and im honestly sick of it, i just wanna find a flying job and get my ass on an airplane beaing paid (a lil, but still better than pay 250 quid an hour for a be76 lol)

Ciao!

[Callsign Kilo]

The wonderful Ryanair put an end to that being possible when they showed the industry that there are enough cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell ends out there that are willing to spend an extortionate amount of money to legally do what an expensive, relatively experienced FO can do for pay.

Jesus Beak, sometimes I think you live in a world where you believe airlines should be run as exclusive flying clubs for their pilots. Commercial aviation, like every other business in existance, has a sole purpose to make money. And to make money, amongst other things, you must control your costs. Lets take it away from an aviation perspective, so bare with me here.

Nov, 2008 - Car maker, Honda announces plans to close its Swindon plant creating fears for 4800 jobs. Speculation remains that the company will chose to relocate its operation in order to lower future costs.

Feb, 2009 - Computer company, Dell cuts 2000 jobs in Limerick in order to transport its operations to Poland where it can pay cheaper wages.

Aug, 2009 - Drinks giant director, Bryan Donaghey, admits that 700 jobs in Diageo Scotland could move overseas in order to lower costs

The list goes on. All these companies are exploring avenues in order to lower costs. So back to aviation....

Why do airlines employ cadets? Going by Oxford's figures, that lean and ever so efficient flag carrier of ours, employed almost 140 of their starry eyed cadets (assuming that's what they were) between 2005 and 2008. Why didn't they take on 140 DE FOs with JAR25 time? Probably because they wanted to give the Oxford lads a head start in life! (along with all the other integrated cadets that they took on from FTE, Cabair and CTC).

Why does the likes of Easyjet, Thomas Cook and Monarch get such a stiffy over the CTC Wings and Flexicrew schemes? Surely because they produce a superior kind of cadet First Officer? Not because of the fact that they can stick them on some 6 month contract, pay them 1K a month and then say toodle pip? Ahh, but they didn't pay for their TR? No, but they paid for it indiretly by fronting up the overinflated course cost with CTC and then accepting 1K a month for up to and including 100 hours of multicrew experience. I'll let you do the maths on that one in order to calculate an hourly rate!

What's the hidden reason for Aer Lingus persuing a UK AOC? Is it the same reason as why their Belfast and Gatwick crews aren't employed on the same salaries, terms and conditions as their Dublin counterparts?

The list again goes on. So I'll bring you back to your point about doing something for less - IT'S FECKIN EVERYWHERE MATE!! Or maybe we will just brand this lot and everyone else that does something for less as a 'scab' and 'parasite' as well?

I like to think of myself as a resonably level head type of fella who can often see the wood for the trees. If you seek out any of my posts on the matter you will see that the whole scenario that we find ourselves in as relatively new pilots stinks, completely and utterly. The SSTR and paying over the odds for training is nothing new. It had grown with monumental popularity long before either of us logged our first hour in a Cessna. Yet you take the moral high ground, just because you were fortunate enough for some now defunct airline to pay for your TR and give you a nice jacket and a cap with a bit of gold braid on it.

Here's a theory that you are probably unwilling to accept. Lets reintroduce your, 'I'm more holly than though' statement of...
that there are enough cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell ends out there that are willing to spend an extortionate amount of money to legally do what an expensive, relatively experienced FO can do for pay.

You went to OXFORD did you not? Modular or Integrated, you paid above and beyond the average cost for a UK issued CPL/IR and MCC. So why go to a school that talks about 'first officer direct,' has some two striped wonder peering out of the DV window of some airliner in it's latest brocher and bangs on about schemes with Flybe, BA, TCX and Netjets every second minute? Ws it because you were happy to wait your place in the que or was it because you wanted to maximise your chances of going directly to the RHS? Does this then make you a self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell end because you gave two fingers to the traditional route, while all the other guys that spent the bare bones on their training spend there time instructing, dropping parachutes and towing gliders (if they are lucky!)

Discuss

[spanner the cat]

Sorry Callsign Kilo but your post rather makes Beaky's point - although as you rightly point out RYR aren't the only ones doing it. It's a festering sore in the industry but it has to be said that RYR have headed the plunge to the bottom. Indeed previous logic - where you needed experience to get a job has been turned on its head. Now you can't get a job unless you have no experience as you're not a cash opportunity for your employer.

I think BA does the cadet-thang because they are more easily able to mould their recruit into something that resembles a Nigel. They took on a lot of DEP's as well and the Cadets cost them a lot more to train - although aren't paid as much. I wouldn't quite lump BA in with RYR and Co.

I did traditional route myself and aside from the fact that it was fun and I learned a lot - I'd have been very pleased going straight into the RHS of a big shiny jet as would most.

The bottom line is that these guys don't understand what it is that they're doing to their future T's & C's. They'll see it one day, but not yet and I hope it isn't too late by then; and I think we know what the answer is to that one too.

Spanner

[CaptainElectron]

The handbags are out! :D

[go around flaps15]

My first post on here. I have been working for Ryanair for a couple of years. I do understand what the Beak is saying about degrading terms and conditions. Im also sorry to see he is unemployed(737 jockey).
But I dont regret joining Ryanair.Even if I do one day find myself unemployed. I have had 3 good years with them and I enjoy every minute of it. But there you go I am a selfish so and so. I always have been, but I dont really care.

[PPRuNeUser0165]

Could someone please explain to me what it is exactly that I am doing to my future T+C's by joinging RYR??

Just because if it is that the future will be SSTR for every company, and no sick pay and no holiday pay etc, then unfortunaltly it is just progression from the airline industry, and I am sorry but that is what happens. That is self emplyment for you!
Callsign Kilo is exactly right, why would any airline not want to save money?? Especially after a 'slump' period where for the airlines that survived cash is a little short to come by! Let me see, pay my staff stupid sums of money, keep getting every bill and expense they put our way, feed them, water them, chuck in some parking for their drop top and make sure they look good in their tailored Hugo boss suits, or make them fork out a bit with their decent saleries and in two months time they still have a job!
I am sorry to say it but it is life! Just get use to it. As a cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell end, I am one happy camper to have those T+C's for the rest of my life! Like I said on a previous post, I have had it all my current working life and so why shouldnt it continue??
Dont get me wrong, I do feel for people that have had it nice and cushty all there lives and are used to being paid for not doing any work or because you are feeling a little off.... cough HANGOVER!
If you dont like the way the industry is going GET OUT! Poeple keep suggesting ASDA?? I am sure your 4 bars will look good stacking shelves!

Dont hate the player, hate the game!!:E

[Callsign Kilo]

Thank you spanner for your input

I am not naive enough to believe that people such as TheBeak don't have a point. It's how they choose to present that point is what goads me. It's one of the easiest things in the world to form an agenda, make a few generalisations to fit with that agenda and then point the finger. It is even easier to do this when you believe that you sh1t smells sweeter than everyone elses, when many may infact believe that it doesn't.

Two things that we agree on

1. The traditional self-improver route no longer holds any real substance. I have said this before and I believe it to be very sad. The quality and standards of professional pilots will drop as a result.

FTOs have latched on to the fact that this route is no longer viable and acitvely hammer home alliances with airlines, TRTOs etc. Look at any integrated school and even beyond for examples. Airlines have fully grasped this pattern and are aware of what they can get away with. SSTRs, part-time contracts, cadet salaries, pay-to-fly schemes, ridiculous bonds etc.

2. T&Cs have taken a nose dive and yes indeed, the likes of Ryanair need to take the blame. The problem is that from day one you enter the debate of 'will I, won't I.' Will I go integrated, will I pay for a type rating, will I pay for line hours? In an era where an expectation of rapid transit through the training system to the RHS is set in stone, there is very little done or to show for the 'won't I' arguement. I'm not saying that this should be the case, however it is the case. Doing things the traditional way is no longer viable so it no longer features.

Thridly, with my point on basic economics. You will always find someone who will do something for less. I have seen some of the most moralistic, self-righteous people behave this way. The airline industry is no different. It was ruined years ago, long before the sniffy nosed 19-22 year old Ryanair cadet ,that TheBeak likes to preach his 'hallelujah's' to, grew out of short pants!

This industry doesn't owe anyone anything. That's the cold hard fact of it now - like it or not. Something which sadly was once a job for life, with massive salaries, massive benefits and massive subsidies has now fallen by the wayside. It's one hell of a mess, but no one collectively, from the ground upwards, has done anything to stop it. And no one ever will. Sure you can point the finger and say its all 'such and such' at fault. We can all do that, it achieves nothing

[TheBeak]

Tommyg737 you are either trying to coerce an argument or you really do have a very short sighted outlook on life. Without the players there is no game. I 'hate' the players.

Why do airlines employ cadets?......

Up to now other airlines schemes and Ryanair were incomparable - Ryanair used and abused and other airlines offered a mutual investment in each other via bonded TRs/ reduced salaries. Of course Easyjet is now following suit via CTC and are quite frankly making themselves look very slow, unimaginative and silly. Flybe still offer a relatively good package which requires no monetary investment from the trainee. As for the other airlines - let's wait and see what they do, we are yet to see much movement that would give some substance to comment on anywhere. Sure we could discuss Wizz Airs scheme in which they charge 51000 Euros for a training package - but then they are owned by the same :mad: as Ryanair.

Thridly, with my point on basic economics. You will always find someone who will do something for less. I have seen some of the most moralistic, self-righteous people behave this way. The airline industry is no different. It was ruined years ago, long before the sniffy nosed 19-22 year old Ryanair cadet ,that TheBeak likes to preach his 'hallelujah's' to, grew out of short pants!


And that's what it boils down to, my whole point, we are left with the lowest common denominator flying the fare paying public through the skies.

You will always find someone who will do something for less.

The words you missed off the end are 'if they can'. Which is where in most cases the 'mummy and daddy' factor springs in. Who gives a :mad: about experience anymore, if it's legal and it's cheap, it's best. It's a short term attitude. I have said what I have said as clearly as I can be bothered to say it in my last post. No one can prove the future and it really boils down to whether you care about what lies ahead or if you are more than busy and happy with the present. If you fit the former profile the future of an airline pilot is incredibly worrying. If you sit more in the later camp, like tommyg737, then you will probably learn the hard way. What you don't know CAN hurt you. Start looking ahead.

Callsign Kilo, you offer a constructive argument and I ask you and others who are going to comment to keep it respectful and mannerly rather than allow this thread to descend into the usual slanging match that it always does.

[Rhodes13]

keep it respectful and mannerly rather than allow this thread to descend into the usual slanging match that it always does.

Shouldn't you take your own advise beak and try to refrain from calling people bellends, whores and scabs?

Perhaps what is good for the goose is good for the gander?

[PPRuNeUser0165]

The Beak you hate everyone! But i am just a cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell end, so what would I know or care really!!! Hence the self centered bell end responce earlier!
You havent answered my question??
What am I actually doing to my future T+C's by joining RYR now??

[TheBeak]

You don't have Ts and Cs, the airline does. With regards to Ryanair and less severely the industry? You have set a downward trend for your future earning, your future prospects and your future net worth. You are losing security. You are losing the long view. You are losing FULL STOP.

[PPRuNeUser0165]

Thankyou The Beak! Atleast now I trully understand what my personal actions are doing to this industry through YOUR opinion!
Still going to do it though, I would be mad to and mad not to! But then again I am a cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell end!
Hahahahahahahahaha!
Safe flying to all us bell ends and you the beak!

[go around flaps15]

"cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell ends" Quote from the Beak. And then you preach about slanging matches. You are an absolute hypocrite.

[dick byrne]

Lets all shed a tear for the moaning, hypocritcial Beak, who has just conterdicted himself with regard to "slanging matches" . This user is in a bad place. His credibility now at very very all time low.

[TheBeak]

cheating: a deception for profit to yourself.
self centred/ egoistic: limited to or caring only about yourself and your own needs.
Queue Jumping: Cutting in line, also known as line/queue jumping, butting, budging, skipping, ditching, breaking, or pushing in.
impatience - restlessness: a lack of patience; irritation with anything that causes delay
Bell end: The glans penis; A stupid or contemptible person.

All are justifiable descriptive words of someone that is looking to bypass the system and heiracrchy that is in place and destroy what is a wonderful, fantastic, envyable and respectable career.

[Rhodes13]

beak I too can look up words in a dictionary but what you seem to be conveniently ignoring is that those words used in the CONTEXT in which you use them become as you say "a slanging match" and deeply offensive in certain aspects! How would you like it if I walked up to you on the street and called you a scab and a whore?

But hey when you have no argument you seem to resort to this dictionary prowling! :ugh:

It strikes me that the words you use to describe the others you so disdain could be applied quite aptly to yourself. Surely this is a severe case of the pot calling the kettle black?

[Mikehotel152]

And that's what it boils down to, my whole point, we are left with the lowest common denominator flying the fare paying public through the skies.

Not true, I'm afraid. That's where the theory falls apart. There are enough good pilots emerging from modular and integrated courses who are willing to invest in their careers to the tune of £30K to satisfy Ryanair's demand for low-hour cadets without them employing idiots.

Blaming Ryanair cadets for ruining the industry is like crying over spilt milk. It's utterly pointless, explains nothing, and helps no-one, even though it makes everyone else feel a little better about themselves.

[smith]

Ok, ok, ok!!!!

There are always gonna be two sides to every story. In this case its the "I'll buy myself a job" brigade vs the "I want to preserve my t's &c's" brigade.

We can argue ad nausiem about the pro's and cons of each particular viewpoint but at the end of the day we all know that the Ryanair whore, scum, parasite, mule or whatever is advancing this profession and bringing it to new levels.

'nuff said, thread closed!!!!

[Callsign Kilo]

Callsign Kilo, you offer a constructive argument and I ask you and others who are going to comment to keep it respectful and mannerly rather than allow this thread to descend into the usual slanging match that it always does.

Pathetic. You are losing any remaining credibility that you once had here. Disguised in your milignant tone was some truthfulness, understanding and concern. However applying demeaning words to people and then attempting to portray the context that you use them as being justifiable is just being a clever dick! To then request that your words aren't contested in the same manner that you use them stinks of hypocrisy. You, after all, set the tone here!

And that's what it boils down to, my whole point, we are left with the lowest common denominator flying the fare paying public through the skies.

It's always, always, always going to be a factor. In any form of recruitment for any flightdeck position. Cost limitation is playing major fiddle. However I can only see your 'lowest common denominator' statement as an anaolgy between the 'cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell end' comment that you made earlier. And by that you imply Ryanair pilots.

The thing that gets me Beak is that you go on about bucking the system, you talk about the experience factor and give us flowery dictionary discriptions to suit the purpose of your words.

'Bypassing the system and the heirarchy in place'

Tell me this, what did you understand about 'the system' when you went to Oxford, apart from what they and a few others told you? What experience level did you have when you first walked on to the flightdeck of your 60t plus 737? Was there a system in place that you bypassed? What about all the SEP instructors, air taxi pilots and turboprop operators that applied for your job and didn't get it? Surely it's justifiable for them to apply the same logic to you?

We can argue ad nausiem about the pro's and cons of each particular viewpoint but at the end of the day we all know that the Ryanair whore, scum, parasite, mule or whatever is advacing this profession and bringing it to new levels.

'nuff said, thread closed!!!!

Piss-off smith! You subscribed to this arguement when you added your demeaning tone, shooting down anyone and anybody who you felt fit. You're an arse!

Ohh my, I can use nasty words too! I'll go and get the Collins English dictionary and give you a definition to justify my statement!

[go around flaps15]

Hey smith What car would you recommend I need to buy to sleep in? I earned nigh on 5000 euros last month, all my loans are paid off but I cant afford anywhere to live? So what car am I going to sleep in?

[smith]

Trust me I've seen it with my own eyes and had a good laugh about it with security in the car park who told me it is a regular occuurrance. Not really a laughing matter, more of a safety matter in I'd say.

I am delighted you earned €5,000 last month, I'm not going to tell you how much I earned as I am not as insecure as yourself that I have to tell all and sundry what my salary is. I really don't need to blow smoke up my own arse like that.

If I were you I'd go for the Chevrolet Escalade, just like Tiger Woods, you might even be able to pull a bird like his as well!!!!

Good Luck whatever you do.

[go around flaps15]

The reason I said I earned that much last month was to show up your rediculous (sleep in cars) comment for what it was. As regards the ladies I am suitably attached and quite happy thank you very much. The audience is now in Smith. Bravo:D

[Superpilot]

A friend did 30 hours last month. He's been with Ryanair for about 18 months. That's less than €2,000! Oh and he's at a roaming base right now so all hotel bills are he's to pick up. This poor chap is struggling to make ends meet because he's hours have been reduced and at the same time Ryanair continues to hire more cadets.

Either Ryanair are staffed by incredibly stupid people without a clue on how to split workload amongst their pilots, or very clever people who know just how to squeeze every penny out of their workforce (the new starters being cheaper than guys with 18 months on the line). I think every FR pilot should offer their opinions as to which one it is.

[TheBeak]

Tell me this, what did you understand about 'the system' when you went to Oxford, apart from what they and a few others told you? What experience level did you have when you first walked on to the flightdeck of your 60t plus 737? Was there a system in place that you bypassed? What about all the SEP instructors, air taxi pilots and turboprop operators that applied for your job and didn't get it? Surely it's justifiable for them to apply the same logic to you?


As always everyone is more than happy to change the subject. And if there isn't an opportunity to change the subject then you create one by having a go at TheBeak. I went to OAA yes and I paid for it myself bar a small loan which was no risk to anyone. I applied to airlines and passed an interview - if I didn't I'd have worked, probably done an instructor rating and kept on applying - much like I am now (minus the FI rating because that too would be a waste of money right now). And I did it all on my own. I think I have had 3 hours paid for in my flying training by someone else. I am sure the other FTO leavers applied to airlines as well so I don't feel I bypassed the current system - I am sure you'll agree - though I have probably bypassed what is the correct system in my mind.

As someone said, the industry doesn't owe you a living, so don't try and buy it and make it owe you one. The market is always right, until some silly medaling little short termist comes and does something to artificially alter it for 'their' time. Ryanair is a classic example. Do this scheme at risk of stunting your potential.

[go around flaps15]

Over 3 years now. I not on the Brookfield contract.

[Rhodes13]

Superpilot if your friend is away from assigned base then he will be earning more money than standard. 20 Euros per sbh so that will cover all the extra expenses he will incur. So I fail to see how he will be out of pocket?

As to doing the 30 hours this month yeah its ****ty but thats a whole other argument. You should also ask your friend how many hours has he done since April?

Beak people are't changing the subject, what they are doing is putting holes in your argument! Funny how you deem it irrelevant how you went about getting into this industry and attack others that are going about it in a similar way to you!

You state you haven't bypassed the current system and then slate people are are currently operating to the now more current system. Do I agree with it? No but thats the way it is in Europe!

Blaming Ryanair for the demise of terms in this industry is frankly stupid. How come you aren't on the Fragrant Harbour forums berating international cadets for being willing to accept a package less than the current DESO's. How come you're not on the Astreus forums berating them for operating Aer Lingus aircraft for a fraction of what the Aer Lingus pilots are getting paid? Are you picketing Jet2 lambasting them about their part time contracts and low pay? Or how about Easy with summer only commands and new differing pay scales? Or indeed any airline that offers lower pay to start off? Where are you on the whole eagle jet pay to fly schemes which incidentally were offered by some of UK's charter operators?

Strangely you seem to be quiet about all these other airlines but feel the need to constantly comment on Ryanair? Why is that?

One more question for you beak, when you joined your airline were you on full pay from day one or a reduced cadet salary?

[Callsign Kilo]

As always everyone is more than happy to change the subject. And if there isn't an opportunity to change the subject then you create one by having a go at TheBeak.

Didums, feeling a bit persecuted? It isn't nice is it? I'll tell you what Beak, I don't see it as subject change. I'm bringing a debate to the table in order to expand upon the rationale of this topic. When you started talking about cheaters and que jumpers, bypassing systems and hierarchies, replacing experience with limited experience you landed yourself right in it. Of course it suits your arguement when you want to apply this to the Ryanair cadet, however you are happy to ignore it when it is applied to the route that you embarked upon.

You got your foot into the door of XL (I am assuming this is who it was) because you went to Oxford. You made the conscious decision to train at Oxford because you believed it would get you into somewhere like XL. You trained, like me, when recruitment was bouyant and Oxford were displaying hard evidence that their training route worked. Inexperienced cadets were going straight to the rhs of a jet or heavy prop. Sure you paid a premium, but you gave yourself a better chance of being a 'first officer direct.' The odds were stacked in your favour. You would likely bypass the more traditional route. This is the card that Oxford were playing when I was selected in mid to late 2005. I didn't end up going, but that's irrelavent. My point has been made.

Since then the aviation industry has evolved a tad. As have the likes of Oxford. The XL, TCX, BA and NetJets alliances are confined to the history books for the foreseeable future. Since 2005 Oxford have purchased both GECAT and Parc and offer a direct path from CPL/IR/MCC/JOC to SSTR. They are actively promoting this 'train now be best placed for the future' bollox. They also like to indirectly associate themselves as a leading supplier of cadets to.... GUESS WHO? I am pretty sure, just like in 2005, that they completely bypass talking about a traditional self improvement route. It's unfortunately as dead as the dodo.

You see what I am getting at here. Large, well renouned schools like Oxford will touch the vast majority of potential trainees (whether they actually go there or not is a different matter) and in turn set the expectation level of what the industry requires and has to offer. It happened to you, it happened to me and it will happen to just about anyone who chooses to listen.

Things have turned for the worst in the last year and a half. You have lost a job, and despite disliking the tone of some of your posts, I am truely sorry for that. You have a right to feel raw, however by lambasting certain individuals as a silly medaling little short termist comes and does something to artificially alter it for 'their' time. you are bringing attention to yourself. Because there are a sh1t load of people out there who believe that the route that you took did exactly the same thing!

Deep down, when it comes down to it you have decided to attack a scheme and a category of individuals that reside within that scheme as being the font of all evil. I had to delve into past threads, however here it is..

must add to my post, the Ryanair pilots I don't like are the 18-22 year olds who have done a tin pot degree/no degree, done a full integrated course and then the TR with Ryanair. Those are the 'pilots' I speak of.

Add to that, the bank of 'Mummy & Daddy' and 'hell hath no fury'

Someone added something like 'Dont hate the player, hate the game' and it was dismissed as being an off the cuff remark. I believe there is a certain element of truth to that. The whole concept of waiting around and not selling yourself short isn't seen at the moment and no one can actually forsee when it will apply either. As a result it's knocking the chances of others in finding employment. There's the real problem here, and as I said before, it's crap. It's washing through the industry from the top down.

[TheBeak]

I genuinely couldn't feel less persecuted.

With regards to the player/ game analogy - You can not disagree that there is no game without the players - I hate the players, they are the people that enable this. I could say the same about a serial paedophile. Don't hate him/her - hate his/her 'game' (And no I am not comparing Ryanair pilots to Paedophiles, I am just using something impacting to prove a point). The very fact that the both of you give credence to this player/ game model to me shows you know that what you are doing is not right. It's an expression used by people who are comfortably arrogant that they are doing something they know is wrong, but they are benefitting from it so they don't 'care' for peoples opinions. It is an expression used by people trying to shift the blame or responsibility.


So I fail to see how he will be out of pocket?

He isn't 'out of pocket' ,that is, at this point he is probably at least breaking even, relatively speaking. But he is down on where he should be.

Strangely you seem to be quiet about all these other airlines but feel the need to constantly comment on Ryanair? Why is that?



Because Ryanair are the people who started it, are monopolising the market place and are deliberately devaluing the industry by taking suggestable people with a desperate/ impatient mind. I'd imagine 95% (or more) of FTO leavers apply to Ryanair. I'd imagine in fact that they are the most applied to airline of all. It's all because they have created this false economy and false opportunity. A false opportunity because the circumstances have been forced. You are being manipulated.

We could debate this forever and a day, it is getting pointless, there are 3 very defined camps - Those that disagree with Ryanair, those that are grateful to Ryanair for the chance and those that couldn't give a crap.

One more question for you beak, when you joined your airline were you on full pay from day one or a reduced cadet salary?

A reduced salary. A salary though all the same. No lump sum 'all the risk for me' payment up front. No extortionate TR fee.

[Rhodes13]

Beak but surely joining on a reduced salary you were in effect paying for your type rating as well?

Why shouldn't you have been paid full salary from day one? After all the company is profiting from you as they have to provide the sims and trainers and they get you for a pittance whilst you're on your reduced "cadet salary" Tell me were you still not piloting the aircraft and performing duties as described?

As for the no risk from you I think you'll find if you left the company/ failed the type you would have been personally responsible for the debt you now owe the company which would have charged a premium for the said type.

It seems you contradict yourself more and more with your ever increasing posts! I still notice you gloss over the other companies I mention and the fact that you helped perpetuate what the companies started by joining the likes of OAA! And once again you are factually wrong in stating that RYR started the whole pay for type rating stuff. It was around in the 70's! How do I know, well my former employer openly bragged about buying his first type on a 707 and then working for Air Berlin! How does that fit into your whole theory Beaky?

As to being persecuted perhaps if you didn't espouse so much crap people would lay off you!

As to be the young chap out of base care to explain how is down on where he should be? As to barely breaking even having done that a few times I know for a fact you can normally bank about half to a 1/3 of your extra allowances by being sensible, not bad for a bit of a change.

[EK4457]

Rhodes 13, youre digging a hole here.

The vast majority of airlines who provide TRs take their costs out of your salary before tax. Agreed.

However, RYR make you pay for an over priced TR upfront AND start you on a highly reduced rate of pay for the first 500 hours, thats after recieving NO pay for approx 2-3 months during training. A significant 'double whammy'.

Why shouldn't you have been paid full salary from day one?

RYR give you nothing on day one. And two. And three.... You get the idea.

I also think you are way too dissmissive about the benefits of having a TR provided by the company. No risk (an airline, to my knowledge, has never charged for a failed TR), no inital outlay, far more tax efficient, the airline will try to get the best price for training and not overcharge (ahem).

You also have a guaranteed salary, pension, sickness...... I mean the list goes on.

I know that if you have 1000 hours on type and if you get a full month of flying and if you are at your home base, then you can get a good paycheck that month.

But thats not every month by a long shot. And it costs a fortune to get there.

Guys, it's a bad deal. Trust me. Where MOL is involved, he will get the best deal for himself at all costs.

Oh, and he HATES pilots. Fact.

EK

[Rhodes13]

EK4457 to an extent I agree with you, but ole beaky here is saying that by paying for a type your are destroying the market. I am simply pointing out that one way or another you pay for your type. As they say there is no such thing as a free lunch. Lets also not pretend that those companies that do pay for your type are doing it from the kindness of their hearts, they do it because its a lovely tax write off and they can save on FO costs at the same time.

Having been here for nigh on 2.5 years I can say that the treatment could be better but thats a fact of most companies and when I chat to friends and family they say exactly the same thing about their companies both here in the UK, Europe and to the Far East and Australia.

For the record pay during the first 500 hours is respectable. I never struggled to put food on the table once and managed to pay down the type rating loan.

What I take issue with is the Beaks constant assertions that RYR is SOLEY to blame for the current state of pilots remuneration! Its not and to believe that is stupid in the extreme. Rather MOL represents what has become of all management positions recently where the all might dollar is the most overriding concern above all else.

Need we look at other carriers for example? A quick browse through pprune reveals that most companies are doing exactly what RYR has done.

Then we have these moronic assertions by beak that having a 737 rating is worthless and that having time on a JAR 25 aircraft is also worthless. Gee I better go and tell the companies that I interviewed with that some jumped up little twerp who because his airline went tits up feels that he has to tell all asunder how to operate their lives!

I agree with WWW on this that now is not the time to start training but if you have that little ticket in your hands then realistically at the moment RYR is pretty much the only game in town. Why should people be berated called whores and scabs for simply trying to do what is best by themselves and families?

Surely as beak has on many times avoided answering during the boom years no one cared one iota how you got there and indeed it was simply a race to see who could spend the most money and get into a shiny jet asap. Now the tables have turned and pilots are under attack due to an oversupply of said pilots Beak wants everyone to stop what they are doing because he is out of a job. Sorry doesn't work. He took the risk and now that risk has bitten him in the ass.

Does RYR have issues? Yes, is it a bad place to work? No. Would I recommend it to a family member? Yes as at the moment what choice do you have? Have I enjoyed my time at RYR? Definitely and I can thank them for being in the position I am in now and for that I am grateful.

[Torque Tonight]

I've just stuck my head back in after a few weeks and find myself amused and unsurprised to read the same old people still banging on about the same old stuff. I often feel the urge challenge some of the erroneous statements on here but increasingly feel that any comment on Ryr threads is utterly futile in the face of such divided opinion.

EK4457,

I also think you are way too dissmissive about the benefits of having a TR provided by the company. No risk (an airline, to my knowledge, has never charged for a failed TR), no inital outlay, far more tax efficient, the airline will try to get the best price for training and not overcharge (ahem).

You also have a guaranteed salary, pension, sickness...... I mean the list goes on

That's all wonderful. Really. I would have jumped at an opportunity like that. Now tell me where I can find such a scheme. Go on, I'm waiting.

The industry has changed, and from the point of view of pilots, not for the better. This is an unfortunate fact of life. Ryanair-type policies are more a symptom of the state of the industry, not the cause. The Beaks of this world can pontificate all they like about the way things SHOULD be, and the old-hands can reminisce about their T&Cs back in the day. Some of us, though, have to make the best of the situation as it stands now, and to be quite blunt about it, doing my bit to resist the decline in T&Cs in the airline industry is f--k all use if I'm unemployed or working in Starbucks with 1000hrs of professional flying under my belt. This is the ugly side of a free market economy and there's virtually nothing you can do to change it. Tough times for sure, but I didn't break the global aviation industry - it was already broken.

[smith]

One more question for you beak, when you joined your airline were you on full pay from day one or a reduced cadet salary?

I thought in FR you did not get paid a salary as a newbie FO, I was under the impression you had to start up your own company or something. Yes I know it sounds surreal but that was what I was told.

[lucair84]

I thought that this thread was only for ryr interviews...here we are only talking bad about them and what they do so "wrong", which I'm already sick of hearing it. Some of you might advise me to change thread if I dont want to hear it, but I ask you kindly to follow the thread. If you want to throw bad stuff about ryr just open a new thread named "how bad ryr is". Sorry for interrupting your "debates".
Luca

Ps: I perfectly agree with torque tonight

[PPRuNeUser0165]

ok so I need to ask a question that's off the current topic but almost on the actual topic of the thread!
I need to pay my TR money. (before you all start it's my money not the bank or mummy and daddy's.) and I need to pay CAE who are in the Netherlands and so would like it in euros, however the problem I have is that the robbing banks are wanting to charge around 1.08 euros to the pound instead of the actual exchange rate of around 1.10! Doesn't sound like alot but actually is around 600 pounds!!!!
Can anyone give me advice on how I may get an exchange rate that resembles the actual rate and not one to make OUR banks money?

I am even asking you the beak!!!
Many thanks guys,
Happy landings!

[Airbusfreak]

anyone any news about assessments coming up? cheers... no replies from thebeak please this forum is supposed to be about interviews and pilots looking for jobs not people giving their unwanted opinion about ryanair

[captain_quagmire]

however the problem I have is that the robbing banks are wanting to charge around 1.08 euros to the pound instead of the actual exchange rate of around 1.10! Doesn't sound like alot but actually is around 600 pounds!!!!

The 0.02 is their margin, they are not going to do it for free after all:=

1.08 is a very good deal considering the current rate as well to be honest.

[PPRuNeUser0165]

I completely agree, ofcourse the banks need to make money, but how can they justify 600 pounds?? 0.02 is nothing when you are wanting to exchange 500 pounds for your holiday but surely when exchanging great numbers of sterling to euros a fix charge would make more sence?? I already pay the banks enough just for using my account!!

[captain_quagmire]

I fully agree but thats the way it is unfortunately.

I recently changed some money on XE.com, i was wanting 100 euros. The best i could get was 1.08ish

so i was looking at getting 108 euros, of course theres and exchange fee of £10!

So i ended up paying £104 for 100 euros:ugh::ugh::ugh:. I think they saw me coming and i certainly wont be using them again for changing small amounts!

[TheBeak]

Airbusfreak, you never replied to the PM you sent me a while back.

Unless you have a friend or colleague with a euro account (probably someone who has a business that does some form of trade overseas), and they are willing to do you a favour, then you are going to have to pay the bank.

[lesgonard]

"must add to my post, the Ryanair pilots I don't like are the 18-22 year olds who have done a tin pot degree/no degree, done a full integrated course and then the TR with Ryanair. Those are the 'pilots' I speak of." - thebeak


"I am 22, have a PPL and have the money to complete the rest of my ATPL training with Oxford through their 'Waypoint' programme. I also have the opportunity to go to Sandhurst and be in the Army for 4 years and then do my pilot training. I do not have a degree though I did do a couple of years at uni doing Mechanical Engineering." - thebeak's first post

Theberk,

In your first ever post, you disclose that you are 22 years old, have dropped out of your degree and "have the money" to attend an integrated course at OAT. Please explain the discrepancies between these statements.

[go around flaps15]

Now that is interesting!

[TheBeak]

Mmmmm very interesting when you don't have the full story. Where is the discrepancy? The only similarity is 22 years old which was the later part of the range quoted in my comment. I didn't pay for a TR but I did pay for my training......with MY money thank god.

I earned/ am earning my money as a broker, there's good money in it Les.
:}

[lesgonard]

The discrepancy thebeak, if it needed to be pointed out, is that you are 22, have no degree and completed an integrated course. I take no issue with either one of these facts but from your previous comment, it would appear that you do. An embarassing inconsistency in my view.

You are very quick to judge and scoff at others and I thought would extend the same courtesy.

[hollingworthp]

OAA's Waypoint is a modular course - albeit the most expensive one around.

[Airbusfreak]

this forum has now officially nothing to do with pilots who are looking for a job with ryanair all these posts should be moved to the generic ryanair forum.

[captain_quagmire]

I also have the opportunity to go to Sandhurst and be in the Army for 4 years and then do my pilot training

Ah now we know, your like that prat off the most recent series of the Apprentice that did selection at sandhurst purely so that they can go telling everyone that they passed it.


I earned/ am earning my money as a broker

In actual fact beak, are you Ben from the Apprentice?

That would explain your immaturity and childish attitude to all.

[LAX]

I think Callsign Kilos post pretty much blows any of beakys arguments out of the water. Paid a premium to go to OAA to have a few doors opened but it backfired.

Beaky - If you are a an unemployed 737 driver from XL, all the best and good luck. Only thing I can suggest is you head south to the jungle or desert - like many of your XL colleagues - get yourself a 1000hrs total and return to Europe when the market picks up. Thats what I and many others had to do a few years ago. I'm sure you will come back with some interesting CRM stories:eek: Sadly also today many redundancies at TFly announced and many of them experenced 737 drivers.

airbusfreak

Not much newbee training going on at the moment, however, since the base freeze ended in August there have been lots of command upgrades and a steady stream of F/O's promoted to SFI's which ultimately makes room for those at the bottom of the ladder. Recruitment of direct entry captains also continues. The RYR website NEWS section is always a good source of information. Extra aircraft announced for LPL, BRS, ALC, CRL, etc, new routes and now a base in Norway. PAX loads remain good, especially flights between UK and Ireland - as always. Hopefully this should offer some hope to those starting out - if your prepared to accept the terms and conditions::{ :ugh:

[hollingworthp]

In actual fact beak, are you Ben from the Apprentice?

I KNEW I had heard that Sandhurst line somewhere before!!

[captain_quagmire]

"I am 22, have a PPL and have the money to complete the rest of my ATPL training with Oxford through their 'Waypoint' programme. I also have the opportunity to go to Sandhurst and be in the Army for 4 years and then do my pilot training. I do not have a degree though I did do a couple of years at uni doing Mechanical Engineering." - thebeak's first post

I earned/ am earning my money as a broker, there's good money in it Les.

Let me get this straight.

Im guessing you left school at 18?
so you went to uni "for a couple of years", so lets assume 2 years.
So you dropped out at 20? assuming you didnt have a gap year?
You then walked into a job as a broker and managed to earn enough money in two years to fund all your training? + fund a PPL as well?
Whats a trainee Broker starting on then? 20k-30k max?

Come on beak lets see some answers.

[TheBeak]

You then walked into a job as a broker and managed to earn enough money in two years to fund all your training? + fund a PPL as well?
Whats a trainee Broker starting on then? 20k-30k max?


Yup for a relatively small brokerage owned by a friend of a friend.
20-30K max as a commodity broker? Are you kidding me? Times them by 5 as a minimum.

Im guessing you left school at 18?


17

so you went to uni "for a couple of years", so lets assume 2 years.
So you dropped out at 20? assuming you didnt have a gap year?


19

[blackred1443]

You have stumped them now beak, a young adult that doesn't need daddys cheque book to help make his/her way in life.good on you buddy. at least you know what you have, you bought, unlike 75% of these pay to fly kids who are still breast fed at 22! If i wore a hat i would tip it to you

And for what its worth i did the same post 9/11. And i reckon i could make my way now without daddy flashing the cash, however bad it is.It might take me time but i would get there. Its all about using your initiative and thats something daddy cant buy you. Remember the only airplanes that fly now are 737s with a harp on the tail in europe.....:ugh:.Due to the ryr revolution no light twins/turbo props fly in africa or asia or anywhere else.

You can just imagine the interview at ryr hq, so little jonny how did you get to where you are? Well daddy provided the security for my cpl and meir loan, and for my type rating daddy provided the money/security too, and i can afford to work for $%^& all because daddy will support me. Oh well clearly your just what we want little jonny, someone with no patience, clearly incapable of making your own way in life, no initiative, the foresight of a mayfly, and whose life stoy will be about as interesting and inspiring as reading the recipe for a full english breakfast -oh yes, daddy bought me a job!

Of course danny the 737 f/o with 2000 hrs on type who is out of work with a mortgage and 2 kids cant afford this crap so he get shafted.

Oh well it should make for some interesting conversations up front in a few years when the capt is a guy that got shafted by these pay to fly heroes who are in the right!

[ei-flyer]

beaky you say in your location you are 'everywhere', but you talk like an englishman so on that i shall base my assumption.

to go to uni requires UCAS points.

this requires A levels or similar two year course to accumulate said points.

you left school when 17.

the youngest you can be upon starting aforementioned course is 16.

again, it takes two years...

doesnt add up mate and youre losing credibility as we speak.

hell i'd have thought about it if you'd said you were a broker at 18 cos that's believable, but your dates just don't add up.

small brokerage? doesnt matter if its tiny or youre the ceo of coleman you have massively undercut the earnings of most in this industry, and thats because its more believable than telling people you earn 100k +

[TheBeak]

doesnt add up mate and youre losing credibility as we speak.

Ah no, not again in this forum. That must be the tenth time I have lost credibility on here and had it proclaimed by someone on behalf of everyone - I'd give examples but I can't be bothered, read through the last 2 pages or so and you'll see. At least I must still have some for me to keep on losing credibility.

Now to answer some completely irrelevant questions to the thread in the hope that I can restore my 'credibility' with you all.:{

beaky you say in your location you are 'everywhere', but you talk like an englishman so on that i shall base my assumption

Yes I am British.

to go to uni requires UCAS points.


Uh no it doesn't, and certainly not in this socialist country. Just being from the wrong part of London, if you know what I mean, can get you in. That aside, yes, in my case, I had more than enough UCAS points - not that they have ever done me any good.

you left school when 17.


We've established now that you can read.

the youngest you can be upon starting aforementioned course is 16.


Is it? I am sure I saw a story about a little 13 year old Indian girl going to Oxford to read Maths in The Sun. I must have imagined it.

Here is a timeline for you peanut brain:

Aged 17 and a half I left school and went to uni for just off two years. I left at 19. Whilst there I did the selection for the Army. On leaving I had already set up a sort of 'apprenticship' (just like Ben) with a friend of a friend (He was actually a friends, friends brother). I started on a small salary and learned, had a go, met the right people which is important in this industry and benefitted from an incredible financial period.


small brokerage? doesnt matter if its tiny or youre the ceo of coleman you have massively undercut the earnings of most in this industry, and thats because its more believable than telling people you earn 100k +

I don't understand what you are saying there and I don't think you understand what commodity broking is.


Blackred, as always buddy, cheers.

[One9iner]

I think the point here, is that TheBeak went into the OAA course, and things haven't worked out as planned - this doesn't mean things won't in the future. TheBeak, some years later is now telling people not to make the mistakes he made, or at least, understand what you are doing when signing up for OAA/CTC/Cabair etc...

I don't disagree that TheBeaks comments can sometimes come across as repetitive and negative, but really, credibility on an internet forum? Does it exist?

However, there is nothing wrong in repeatedly telling people not to self fund type ratings and line training !

Now, maybe back to the thread anyone?

[One9iner]

It's become very hostile in here - more than the normal banter.

Although I'm not looking to enter RYR or a Brookfield contract, I do watch this thread as a source of information. I'm not defending TheBeak, but can we return to the subject; and not dwell on a RYR/Brook/Easy/CTC discussion?

What are the current intake dates? numbers? pass rates? new/bases? etc... etc...

[TheBeak]

Everyone should just ignore beak.

Mmmm, great advice however the people you are attempting to speak to do not believe in uniting against a cause. They are in it for themselves and so will have their say and have their dig.


Everyone should refuse to fly until they have their type training provided, they are paid appropriately and they are given a permenant contract. If they needed you they'd commit to you and pay for you.

I am not trying to wind people up, I am giving the best advice I can, based upon my very real experiences.

[captain_quagmire]

Everyone should refuse to fly until they have their type training provided, they are paid appropriately and they are given a permenant contract. If they needed you they'd commit to you and pay for you.

Absolutely agree with you, but its just not going to happen really is it!

Ryanair TRs have been going for sometime now and will continue as long as they need staff(they wont just keep putting people through them, they froze them last year remember).

I genuinely dont believe that ryanair is the problem whatsover, looking over on the T+c's forum it would seem many out there believe EZY to be a big problem. I for one agree with them, Flexicrew and CTC is an utter disgrace and i blame them for the main decline in T's+C's. I see they are being offered work as CC now! Wont be long before they are asked to clean and Deice A/C's as well!

Brookfields been going a fair while, granted the % of BRK's against employees in the company has risen.

Lets not forget those companies like ATP that do that outrageous scheme with BMI whereby your paying around £150 per hour to fly passengers!!!! Any one paying for line training deserves to be shot in my opinion!


I fully understand your frustrating at having jet time and seeing lots of newbies slipping into Ryanair, but its not going to change. SSTRS have been around for decades, its these companies that have pushed it one step further are the ones that people need to be put off.

I genuinely wish you all the best and you WILL get back into the air again.

[go around flaps15]

It's funny reading your post about how you think a Ryanair interview works. Little Jonny this and little Jonny that. What kind of twoddle are you on about? How would you know anything about how things are done at Ryanair? You are just generalising about stuff that you want to believe in! Stop talking bollox! How the hell could anyone take you seriously when you can't even put a grammatically correct sentence together?:ugh:

[G CEXO]

Just read a couple of posts on the previous page and wanted to share my opinion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone getting financial help from their parents whether it be a security on a loan of even better, cash.

Some people are just luckier than others and it really isn't nice for people to envy. :=

Finally, as your probably thinking which category I fall in, I am one of the lucky few in the industry who has full financial and welfare supprt from his parents. I do not at all take this for granted and believe to be blessed by God and very very lucky.

You have two choice:

1. work hard and pay for it yourself.
2. have it paid for you if your parents are happy to do so.

Both options are morally and ethically right.

[blackred1443]

Its amazing you can always spot when you have struck a nerve.....because mammys boy throws his toys out of the pram.
As for talking trash i really fail to see how, whoever is involved in a ryr interview/sim check and is sponsored by mummy and daddy in their early twenties is unlikely to have had to make their own way in life. Though i assume goaround flaps you are going to prove me wrong? i certainly hope so. Who wants to hear about the life of someone who need mum and dad to flash the cash so that they can make their way in their chosen career. Its hardly inspiring now is it?
Lets run a little survey of the people on this thread
Who has paid for their licences and 737 type rating in ryr without relying on the bank of mum and dad?

To answer your question goaround flaps I know quite a bit about the ryanair selection process. I've had quite a few mates go through it though i have never done it i must admit. Not an indepth knowledge but enough to know that your chequebook plays a significant role in the process, without this you are not going to be successfull. That says it all really doesn't it. You see i have NEVER had to buy a job. On principal i am not sure i could. i dont see why i should need to give my employers 33k and sign up for a pathetic contract just so i get a job.

There is a growing contigent across the industry who are sick of having the bank of mum and dad ruin this career.

As for my grammar and punctuation, its pretty poor i will admit. No worse than yours though my friend. Your missing the apostrophy in "cant". Now how can i be expected to take someone seriously who forgets an apostrophy.
Poor spelling,grammar or punctuation has very little to do with intelligence or the validity of ones opinion. Where as swearing in an attempt i think has alot to do with it, of this i too am also guilty. I'm entitled to mine you are entitled to yours.

PS Cexo I have two jet ratings paid for 2 different employers, my parents did not pay for my flight training, or instructors rating. Trust me i am in no way envious of your parents' helping you. Whatever i get in life i want to know i was the one that got it. I do not want to have to rely on my folks to help me. Again just my opinion

[go around flaps15]

Now you did get me with one mistake. Please do forgive me for that. As for "mummy and daddy", I never got a penny off them for my training or type rating. I paid for the whole lot myself. I have been working for Ryanair for a number of years, and I got to where I am because I worked hard for it. Do you expect me to apologise to you, and all the other unemployed 737 jockeys out there for where I am now?

[blackred1443]

Did i ask you to apologise?
Did I say you got money from your parents?

PS It wasn't your only mistake because you missed the apostrophy in "its" also.

[smith]

SSTR's have been around for decades

Remember CAE in Amsterdam and SAS academy in Sweden provide a highly valuable service in this area.

If it weren't for companies such these with a caring approach to aviation this industry would be in a complete mess.

[go around flaps15]

No you did not ask me to apologise. But I asked the question to you. Do you expect me to? P.S. You don't work for Ryanair and you really know didly squat about them, their interview process or anything worth posting about Ryanair, apart from that they supposedly only employ little Jonnies who are bankrolled by "mummy and daddy". Thats all you have to offer.

[blackred1443]

I seem to recall that you are in RYR for 3 years, i looked at your post history. Can i ask why did you pay for a type raing 3 years ago when the job market was at its peak?Was it the only job you could get at the time? Did you sign up to a BRK contract with the jobs market at its peak?if so why?Just curious

To answer your question, do i think you should apologise? It really depends on the terms you are on and how you feel about degrading terms for others. if you got a job three years ago with the market at its peak and found yourself paying for a TR, signing up to a BRK contract with the hopeless terms they offer then i think you have contributed to these crap terms we are faced with today. Again i dont really know enough about your personal circumstances to say whether or not you should apologise. Its really not for me to say. Other than i didnt ever sigh up to such a deal.

As for me knowing diddly squat about ryr and its recruitment let see. I know there is a MCC course in dublin where you pay way over and above the going rate to be placed on the top of the pile cv wise for ryr.
I also know that ryr charge for the sim check and interview about £300 i believe.Imagine that, they rate your skills that highly they want you to pay to be tested! I know the interview involves a few tech questions, then a bit of the hr stuff, then you are asked to specify your 3 base preferences. You then get a call if successfull saying pay the 33k and you do your course in east mids or amsterdam through cae.
On completion of line training you are offered 3 bases and you accept one,you may not be given very long to decide where you end up based. it can be a case of base offer friday morn, decide by lunch time and start there monday. Live the dream!
Pay rates 20 euro till safety pilot is gone, 35 till 750, then 75 euro thereafter approx.
BRK contract offers no sick pay,lol,pension,holiday pay, pay for your own lpc/opc, no crewfood, but free water yeehaaa! You are clearly a valued member of the team!
You have to set up a company with 3 other ryr pilots,you are only given a list with 3 accountant to choose from.....i wonder why!!?
One of these accountants charges 500 euro to setup the company then 3% of your gross salary per annum there after.

To get back to the recruitment process though you PAY for the assessment and PAY for your job so where is the risk for ryr. If you fail the TR who cares the next candidate can fill you seat at no cost to ryr. So where is the incentive for ryr to be stringent during the recruitment day. Infact i would imagine they make a tidy sum on the TR so devils advocate would say the more that gets through the more money they make! Let face it....its not quite the BA or even the EZY selection process!!

I will let you in on a secret, i did both within the last three years and they didnt charge me for the selection day or tell me to pay for my TR or ask me to setup my on company if i was successfull!

As for the comment i don't work for RYR, your dead right i don't and please god i hope i never will have to.No offence but if the only offer on the table was a BRK contract at RYR i think i rather pack it all in. And i mean that. While we are on the subject though technically neither does anyone on a BRK contract work for ryr, they work for BRK!!So by your logic even BRK contractors who fly ryr aircraft know nothing about ryr then!!

[antonov09]

Interview £260. And I believe 56 after line training not 75 until 750 hours. Did BA and EZY turn you down? Are you employed at the moment?

[blackred1443]

Ya i am employed thank god,as a pilot in a relatively secure airline (if there is such a thing at the moment!)too which is a bonus!neither turned me down.

[stefair]

Everyone seems to be complaining about RYR lowering T's & C's in the industry but is this really true?

A major European airline is seeking 120 FO's for their 320/737 fleet these days and said to be expanding pretty heavily. TR's are all paid for by that very company while a reduced salary is already paid during TR training. After line release new copilots are paid a full salary and are entitled to staff travel, benefits and LOL after one year with the company. Uniform is provided.

Life goes on despite RYR.

[jimmyjetplane]

Smith.....the caring approach to aviation that those companies have might just come from the millions they make!! don't kid yourself that's just bollocks mate!

Jimmy

[lucair84]

QUOTE
You have to set up a company with 3 other ryr pilots,you are only given a list with 3 accountant to choose from.....i wonder why!!?
One of these accountants charges 500 euro to setup the company then 3% of your gross salary per annum there after

Can someone explain this?

[go around flaps15]

No I am not on the Brookfield contract. I payed for the type rating because it was an offer, and it was my first offer, I had family working for Ryanair (still are) and Im Irish! I have not looked back. I have no training debts anymore I paid them all off. I love going to work, I love working with great people. Its that simple. I dont care about deteriorating terms and conditions, because I am happy with mine(how selfish-boo hoo). Ryanair are selecting the best of the best at the moment because they can afford to. Its the only gig in town at the moment. Just because you can pay for your type rating does not mean you will get a start. Its true believe it or not. They interview 16 cadets a week, on some weeks they have only taken 2 from the 16. You belittle the selection process but they have a couple of ex Aer Lingus guys that say yay or nay on every cadet that walks through the door(if you dont perform to a very high standard flying that sim raw data its most definitely a nay). For most cadets it is that. P.S. The pay rates you posted about the brookfield contract are wrong.

[blackred1443]

Im not sure its the only gig in town but at least your happy.Enjoy.After the money you have spent to be there, you deserve to.

Are you on a fulltime RYR employee on a RYR contract with pension, lol, sick pay, holiday pay, basic salary etc. Im just curious because i know a few people that entered at a similar time that are on BRK contracts. When/if you get an upgrade will you have to switch to BRK contract?
Also the quality of candidate, i have no idea of as i have never been involved in RYR selection. My only issue is that no matter how good or bad the individual is if they don't have the funds they don't get a job. That is dangerous in my opinion.I imagine RYR make a nice sum on the TR so the temptation must be to TR as many as possible. We all know how much MOL loves a healthy profit

PS this might make you laugh....after i posted my rant on how crap the terms at ryr are someone sent me a PM asking me where they should send their CV and how could they get in contact with the people who run the MCC i mentioned and telling me that they don't care how much it costs, they are desperate to sign up!!!i kid you not. I give up!:ugh:

For some odd reason it seems they think i am involved in ryr rrecruitment

[go around flaps15]

Yes I am full time. So who do you work for blackred? I have given you some insight in my world, a world that you belittle on a daily basis pretty much. So tell me a bit about your world ? How do you find it? What do you fly? When did you join? Where did you train? Will you stay there? When are you up for command or are you LHS? Im just interested and curious.