Ryanair Interview and Sim Assessment (merged)

[rotorwills]

Just adding my twopence. It appears to me that in a couple of years there may well be a lack of pilots. Based upon the thoughts that our illustrious science people along with profit seeking drug companies will have a stranglehold on this virus. Given that thought along with credible thoughts that there will be the natural loss of pilots from age and other considerations. Now are the training outfits operating to fill the usual conveyor belt of new pilots at a level to just cover the natural loss elements. I don't think so. When will they get back up to steam. Hmmm, will some outfits be still in business after this episode of disruption?

So with a sort of overview, shorthaul will recover quicker, I think we can all agree on that, and with a Mr O Leary looking to take advantage, just based upon his modus of operations, if I were looking at a starting a career in aviation Ryanair would be very high on my list, in fact it would most likely the only one I would dream of serious consideration. Just to comment on a few posts throwing in the thoughts that Ryanair are looking to add to their revenue stream by recruiting cadets to make a profit from the fees required is tantamount to gross stupidity. No furtheR comments required as if common sense doesn't indicate that then don't wish to engage.

My advice for a student aspiring to become one of us, then if the financial strains can be tolerated then it is acceptable pathway.

The world is changing and the posts condemning the TR cost with no guarantees need to wise up. You get nowt for nowt these days. No one owes you a living, never mind the joy that flying can provide to dedication to our industry that permeates through and dissolves the negative haters of our business, some love and enjoy.

People spend a third of their life sleeping, a third working, and a third at other things. I know spending a third of my life working in an environment I love is my hearts desire. Sleep, of course is required for the body.

the other third, about 0.000001% on this forum. But it's worthwhile just to try and help another by posting truth. Advice, no, I recall my late dads advice, when I was in my teens, never took it, but that's for another time and place.

Good luck to all new candidates aspiring to join us in the air.

[A320LGW]

No one does owe us a living, the same way no one owes to offer o leary to effectively fly his planes for free.

Again, yes, you get nowt for nowt. You get a bonded rating, you are expected to pay it back with your service. That is a fair give and take. What you are proposing is giving them everything for nowt.

How did I and thousands around the world get our ratings paid for without being extorted obscene amounts of money by our companies? Myself included and not too long ago either. How did as recent as 2019 RYR cadets only pay 5k and 25k bonded? Pandemic you say, well hello but by the time these guys are actually needed there will be no more pandemic.

Your mentality is the reason this industry is in this state and the rest of us are left to pick up the pieces to salvage what we can. You and those like you accept the obscene as acceptable, what a disgrace to the profession.

[Contact Approach]

Absolutely spot on.

[rotorwills]

A320LGW

oh dear, how sad.

as I said I don't respond to the no common sense brigade lot.

leave it at that, as all can see very clearly from this as well, so many senseless posts you have made.

[PPRuNeUser0156]

If you think those that are urging caution and questioning a scheme that costs an exorbitant amount of money with absolutely ZERO guarantee of employment or financial protection are ones without common sense then you need your head examining.

If I had common sense I’d be alarmed as to why the recruiters are deleting questions they don’t like the look of on LinkedIn? some as simple as ‘what are the employment prospects after completion’ is that not a valid question ?

[A320LGW]

Table this contract onto any flight deck right now. What would the crew reactions be?

"oh wow great go for it!" or "I despair"?

We know the truth. Disgrace to the profession as I said, we need a clown emoji on this forum, apt in these circumstances.

[Contact Approach]

Time will tell whether this was right or wrong, the first batch of cadets have now started TR albeit via distance learning.

[Flying Clog]

Well, there's one born every minute.

[Contact Approach]

rotorwills

As you have made it clear you dont respond I am curious as to why you actually responded?

[Hogos]

A320LGW

Me and my generation didn't have this opportunity, (or at least not all of us), maybe we've been unlucky, or maybe we are not as good as your generation.
Considering that it's not only a job but also a vocation, I would say, there's still somebody trying to get some other chances before throwing in the towel.

[D9009]

Don't be put off by the "experts" posting on here.

BA and British Midland were selling type ratings on the B737 and B757 for £10,000 back in the 1980s which at todays prices is around £26,000 - many of those who took advantage of this scheme while waiting for a job to come up are now sitting in the LHS at BA and I'm sure they don't consider themselves "a disgrace to the profession".

[Contact Approach]

That is an entirely different case altogether! Those guys went on to have long and successful careers with mainline airlines. We are not harping on about paying 30k for a TR, we are harping on about the lack of any guaranteed employment and the huge risk put onto cadets at an extremely fragile time. Ryanair are undoubtably gambling with your money not theirs.

[YankeeZulu]

It would be glad to keep this subject for feedbacks only...
Create an other one if you want to debate indefinitely.

Anyone with a recent feedback ? I will be very interested in :)

[BoeingLudo737]

Contact Approach

Your comments are definitely bias and you have a personal dislike towards the airline. Not sure why you have to put a negative comment on this thread every single day.

There are many people who went on to have a successful and long career with ryanair who paid 30k many years ago so your argument doesn't make any sense whatsoever

[PPRuNeUser0156]

Go read his post again.

€30k isn’t the issue. It’s the lack of guarantee or monetary protection in place that people have the main issue with when spending that level of money.

It’s not unreasonable to expect some form of protection or guarantee.

€5k and €10k you would argue that the risk is worth it without a guarantee as you end up with a type rating which costs more than €10k to acquire.

€30k with no protection or guarantee is unreasonable and entirely unethical.

[D9009]

Contact Approach and Flying Greek In fact these type ratings by BA and BM carried no guarantee of a job, they were sold as a stand alone with no obligation on either side. One guy I know never managed to get a job with BA even though he'd done the TR with them. BA warned that there was no guarantee of employment before you did the course - they were using it as a lucrative way to occupy the sims and the training department after the Trident crews had all done their conversion courses, if I recall there was a short article in the Log about it.
Most of the people who paid for these TRs were from GA and had 1000s of hours, but the airlines wanted TRs and glass cockpit time.
All I'm pointing out is that this is not the first time that jobs are scarce and Type Ratings are for sale.
All the guys and girls that I personally knew at the time eventually found jobs on jets, but not necessarily with the airline that did the TR.
YankeeZulu It might be an idea to learn a little about the industry you profess to be interested in

[Antonio Montana]

Bond Avaition did a similar scheme in the early 2000's right up to the demise of Astraeus. You.paid £30k (ish) got rated on the 73 or 75, then paid for 100 hours on type. No guarantee of a job at the end. All in the UK put of London, Manchester and Birmingham (I think). They ran the courses every few months and were always busy. So no it's not just one company.

[RobVetta]

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

I have attended an Assessment in Bergamo and I would like to share my feedback with you guys. Wall of text incoming.


I was asked to attend an assessment in Dublin, but I turned it down because of COVID. Then I was contacted again a couple of months later for another assessment in Bergamo.
After I voiced my worries about the lack of real hiring opportunities, the PR guy replied "sounds like you got your information from pilot forums. Those are unreliable and full of negativity". I never even mentioned pilot forums once, so Ryanair is probably aware of the online rumors that surround its assessments. It might even have eyes on this very thread.

I accepted the appointment, paid 350€, and got my confirmation and briefing package. The package contains basic info about the sim layout and procedures; you are supposed to study it. (Please don't ask me to share it).
There is also a list of necessary documentation, such as passport, CV, license, medical, and other stuff. You also need to bring 2 written references, dated and manually signed, and a signed Flight School Report. The references can come from previous employers, a teaching body that is NOT a flight school (university or high school are good), or a person that has known you for more than 5 years and is not a relative. You also need a negative COVID test taken in the last 72 hours, and they don't even accept Rapid Antigen tests.
The references were a major pain in the a** to get, would've been nicer if they told me earlier that I would need them! I suggest to get yours ready as soon as possible.

Anyway, the assessment day comes. I show up on time (despite the place being hard as hell to find), get my temperature taken, and move into a large classroom with the rest of the applicants. There were 8 of us, all dressed to impress with shirts and ties and jackets and whatnot.
A friendly PR guy shows up and gives a brief presentation about Ryanair, the assessment that awaits us, and what we should expect if the assessment is successful. Long story short, you have to pay 30k upfront (no bonds) for the Type Rating; afterwards you'll be offered a 6-month long Training Contract with Airline Flight Academy, including Base Training and a flimsy salary.
They don't guarantee you a First Officer job at the end of the training, but they stated "this is not a pay to fly, we do have a need for pilots and we do want to hire you". Way easier said than done, but at least they're putting in the effort... realistically, if you started training now, you could expect to be working in summer 2022 (maybe).

The PR guy leaves and an experienced Captain gives us a briefing about the simulator. Then we are split into couples, we receive the approach plates, and each couple has to agree on a briefing that includes both the flight profile and the callouts.

Then, I strap in for the most interminable and nerve-wrackingly tense wait. Since each couple takes roughly 2 hours in the simulator, if you are as unlucky as I was and get picked to be the last one, you're in for a wild ride - you're left with your assessment colleagues and your crippling anxiety for hours, with little else to do other than scroll your phone and pray.
And their vending machines had nothing in store but ice cream. Don't be like me - bring food.

Anyway, while couples are in the sim, other candidates are individually picked for the HR and technical interview. You sustain both of them at the same time, and it lasts about half an hour.
The technical questions are fairly complex, but not too specific (nothing close to those stupid ATPL questions). I was asked about the pros and cons of swept back wings, the meaning of High Bypass, and a quick crosswind calculation. Keep in mind they might ask you stuff about the Boeing 737 (seating capacity, type of engine, maximum altitude/cruise speed, or the advantages of the 737 MAX over the 800 version). I don't think they want you to know everything about the plane, they probably just want to know if you've been curious about it and did some research - take the Ryanair Corporate website, Fleet page, as an example.
Also, don't try to guess if you don't know. My questions clearly got increasingly difficult with time: they probably want to see what is the limit of your knowledge, and what you do when you don't know things.

For the HR part, the interviewer was friendly and easy-going, but his English was a bit hard to understand. He asked many things about my CV, then inquired about my hobbies and my plans if I happened to lose my license. Then he asked what I would do if I realized that the Captain was not fit to fly. Everyone got a similar question - mine was "the Captain just lost his loved one and is depressed", my partner's was "the Captain is sleepy and can barely stand".
Finally, I was asked a question that seemed tailored specifically to me. It depicted a particular scenario that I, and I specifically, would be super upset about. No doubt the HR guy was putting me to the test (I even pointed out "ouch, if you were trying to hit one of my weakspots, you nailed it!"). Just answer honestly, and don't pretend to be someone you aren't.

Finally, it was Simulator time. You receive no extra briefings or tips: pick Right or Left seat, pick PF or PM, and that's it - you're being evaluated.
For a neophyte to large turbine aircraft like me, the sim was hard. Not impossible, but hard. We were assigned a very basic SID and even that was challenging: I found the 737 exuberant, with a nasty tendency to overspeed. At least you can use the FD's during takeoff, which is a huge help.
You then perform simple maneuvers, such as climbs, turns and descents; then the assessor, playing the Senior Cabin Crew, contacts you about an emergency in the cabin. You have to perform FORDAC and NINTS with the help of your PM, and call for checklists if you need them. The best choice is generally to return to the home airport, and if you require vectors to skip the approach, they might decide to comply. The approach is flown raw data with no FD's (which is hell). You might need to go around if you're not stabilised.
Do I suggest to take a preparatory course? Eh, your choice. At the end of the session, I felt I could do a little better if I did it again immediately afterwards, thanks to the experience I acquired. But a single hour isn't much.

And then it was go home time. They'll contact me within 2 weeks, and if I pass, I will be able to start a Type Rating Course within 6 months. Wish me luck!

[Contact Approach]

Good luck!

[iome]

Probably the most helpful and by far on topic post I've seen here in a while.

Thank you for sharing, people like you will be glad to read it and will benefit from it.

Beside the short spell after 2017, Ryanair has never guaranteed a job with them. They go as far training contract.
Why would they offer more and then get stuck with you if the industry suffers?

I joined like you over 15 years ago, no regrets. I'm where I want to be, I still have a salary, I still fly and all despite the negative/bitter pilots trying to convince me I wouldn't get a job offer after.

Best of luck to you, see you around

[kendrick47247]

Beside the short spell after 2017, Ryanair has never guaranteed a job with them. They go as far training contract.
Why would they offer more and then get stuck with you if the industry suffers?


😂... because that is how a normal business operates.

[The Foss]

RobVetta

There are Ryanair HR staff that watch this thread (and others) and do even post from time to time. Yes PPRUNE is pretty negative however it is also his JOB to get these assessments and courses filled. Choosing to believe someone because they are telling you what you want to hear is simply confirmation bias.
Why would Ryanair be doing this if there are no real vacancies? Well first of all it is at no risk to them. They are gambling with YOUR money. Secondly, having a surplus of pilots works in their favour to put downward pressure on Ts and Cs and accelerating the ‘race to the bottom’. And we as pilots are funding that for them...

With regards to P2F, again they are telling you what you want to hear. I’m sorry but your description above of paying 30k upfront for a ‘6 month training contract’ consisting of a TR, base training and line training but no job is the very definition of pay to fly.

[BoeingLudo737]

We were all waiting for the first negative post of the day

[A320LGW]

It takes a special kind of blind to see harsh reality as negative and therefore false. Just sign up pay your 30K get the show on the road. You'll be having 60hr rosters come July and you can laugh with your crew on days off over a steak dinner about the idiots who said you wouldn't be flying and you'd be getting paid less than your rent :O

[kendrick47247]

BoeingLudo737

Current pilots are giving out the most realistic information possible (they have no dog in the fight) but because it doesn’t fit some people’s dream, it’s being discounted as lies/negativity/pulling the ladder up behind them.

These pilots have no reason to lie to you, they aren’t trying to take 30k from you.

If I was to be cynical about any post here, it would be from RobVetta. It may well be a very detailed account from an interviewee, or it may be a post from someone who has a job to make this scheme seems as trustworthy and worthwhile as possible.

[Contact Approach]

BoeingLudo737

I really don’t understand this mentality. Cleary you’re part of the ryr HR team or otherwise you care little for anyone else’s welfare. Paying 30k plus all expenses to start a TR with a training provider with no legal attachment to Ryanair in this current climate is simply madness. Why not wait until at the very least their fleet is airborne, not sat idle at STN and there’s a defined, more certain way out of this mess. Most of the line are sat idle at home so where will you fit in? It’s very likely these guys won’t complete their LT in the fixed time available and then what? Your advice on how it was great 5 years ago because everyone did it isn’t going to help them then is it?

For those who may not be in the know then it appears at surface level that Ryanair are offering FO jobs across Europe & N.Africa, however the reality doesn’t quite match up and that is what the majority of us are trying to say. Just make sure you know what you are getting into and you know all the facts. It’s simply prudent to do so.

[D9009]

If you consider that Ryanair have 210 B737 8200s on order and IAG have a letter of intent for 200 Max 8 and Max 10s, having a type rating without obligation to the training provider must surely put you in a better position than not having a type rating.
I would imagine that an NG TR could be converted to Max fairly easily.

[A320LGW]

Those aircraft will arrive over many many years and they are replacements for the current NG fleet, similar to how up until 2019 they were still receiving 737NGs from a deal agreed upon nearly 2 decades ago. It is not 400 new aircraft + 400 current aircraft.

[Contact Approach]

What has this got to do with the current situation we find ourselves in? Are you saying you’d be happy to pay 30k to sit in a hold pool for the foreseeable future? Have you ever even been in a hold pool? Usually its over a fixed term and is subject to meeting currency requirements and business demand. It also requires you to gain employment elsewhere until such time you get a call. When or if that may be is anyones guess...

[D9009]

I wouldn't recommend that anyone paid any money at all in order to become an airline pilot - I didn't, I was sponsored, I've never paid for a type rating, however, you will have noted that this is not a new situation, people have paid for type ratings before and it has worked out for them. I'm just making an observation based on my 39 years in the industry.

[Contact Approach]

D9009,

Those on here will say that’s not the new norm... but if people took your advice the end result would not be what is currently on offer! The irony...

[Jwscud]

If you think that IAG MAX LOI is worth anything more than a massive 787 discount in exchange for good PR I have a bridge to sell you.

[HotelAlpha1]

If the LT isn't completed within the 6 months training contract then said contract is extended. Not too sure if this is on a rolling basis, fixed term or if it depends on the individuals circumstances.

People here are quite rightly pointing out the risks associated with such an opportunity but the rewards far outweigh the risks IMO. People need to realise though, that RYR aren't trying to grab 30k off you. They couldn't care less, there's a huge surplus of pilots right now and very little opportunities and they rightly know that people will cough up the money. IMO ALL TR should be sponsored/bonded but sadly this is just the situation we find ourselves in just now.

It has already been pointed out but I'd reiterate the point that - THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN RYR's METHOD OF TAKING ON CADETS - TRAINING CONTRACTS FOR LT, many who've went down this route have went on to have massively successful careers. The only thing that changed in the past was the price. RYR are in a strong position but have lost huge amounts over the last year, so yes, of course they're going to cut costs in any way they can, like most LCC's would - so it's not a surprise its 30k. Despite this always being the method of hiring cadets, I understand that we are now faced with a different set of circumstances that we haven't faced before. HUGE uncertainty. RYR from what I can see have always been clear that this is for Summer 2022 growth. Not Summer 2021, but 2022. Now with that being said, this summer looks like it could have great potential, there's certainly some encouraging signs but time will tell. There's no doubt however next year will be the one. RYR don't want to be LT guys during what could possibly be their busiest summer to date. So, by starting LT this year, everyone is prepared for next. It remains to be seen whether LT will be dragged out this year if need be or whether it will be done a close to the standard time as possible and then put on unpaid leave as such - should the expected recovery forecast for this year not materialise. That being said, like I mentioned earlier, the signs are there for this year. EU countries already making early commitments to being open for tourists. This combined with the incredible speed of the vaccine rollout should make for a great summer and strong winter.

I see they're also letting people delay TR start dates by 6 months like they always have done. This is VERY reassuring and encouraging as it let's you see how others get on first - the 'guinea pigs' as such. Its something i'd strongly advise anyone applying for this to do. I know 2 TR classes have already started and are due to start LT early-mid June. So, say your due to start TR in sept and the first TR class finish LT in aug/sep and don't move on to a RYR contract - you simply wouldn't join and the flip-side being - if they do get contracts then it adds some more certainty.

Look guys, just be aware about what your signing up for - do the research, listen to people who've been there and done that, talk to current RYR pilots. You're gonna hear positives and negatives like you would in most companies, in any line of work. **One thing I would add is that you must be wary of some of the posts on here, some of the guys make valid points and are trying to help but there's some who aren't as helpful and are filling this forum with BS.** It's down to yourself at the end of the day to weigh up the pro's and con's and decide accordingly but like I say, there certainly is encouraging signs but don't rush the decision.

[BoeingLudo737]

Contact Approach

Clearly you hate Ryanair and your arguments are getting boring

[Contact Approach]

Open a nice bottle of red and enjoy yourself.

[Flying Clog]

The problem is, RyanAir is just soooo easy to hate.

[The Foss]

It has already been pointed out but I'd reiterate the point that - THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN RYR's METHOD OF TAKING ON CADETS - TRAINING CONTRACTS FOR LT
Sorry this is false - Ryanair have not always arranged for pilots to sign up to ‘training contracts’ before. Training was provided by Ryanair who also took responsibility for future training/renewals and offered a job dependant on successful completion of the course.
Now they are distancing themselves completely, placing responsibility for licence renewals on the trainee and making clear the point that this is a 6 month training contract, not a job offer. It may work out for those taking the gamble, it may not. But this is definitely not the way it’s always been.

[HotelAlpha1]

The Foss

Ladies and Gents, This the BS I warned you about. This is why it's absolutely critical and do your own research, speak to the relevant people and don't listen to people like this.

The foss - I strongly suggest you look up CAE, Blue sky aviation etc etc etc and also take note of Dashcam's post.

[Dashcam]

I think my previous post in response to Thefoss was deleted as it had contact numbers on, let’s try again without those.

A RYR training contract from 2007 when the training provider was CAE (now AFA):



RYANAIR.COM
THE LOW FARES AIRLINE

RYANAIR BOEING 737-800 TRAINING COURSE

_______________
C/O Ryanair Flight Operations

Dear ________,

Congratulations on successfully completing the Initial Ground-school and Simulator elements of the Ryanair B737 -800 type-rating course with our approved Training Organisation. We are pleased to offer you this fixed-term training contract as Second Officer Boeing 737-800 in Ryanair Ltd. (hereafter referred to as Ryanair) which is subject to your signed acceptance of the specific terms and conditions outlined in this document.

1. Position

This is a 6 month fixed-term training contract with a commencement effective from the start date of Base Training.

(a) Work Permit
This contract and any subsequent permanent contract offer is subject to you having unrestricted right to work anywhere in the EU (if subsequently you are offered a permanent position).
(b) Term
It must be clearly understood that this is a fixed-term training contract only (6 months) and that should a permanent position be available within Ryanair at the end of this contract you will be considered for that position provided your performance and suitability during the term of this training contract has been satisfactory. In the event that you fail to successfully complete your training then your contract will be terminated.
(c) Accommodation / Expenses / Transport
You will be responsible for your own accommodation and transport for the duration of this training contract and no expenses will be payable by Ryanair.
(d) Training Pay .
The Training Pay under section 5 of this contract will be paid and effective from the start date of Base Training (in accordance with section 5 of this contract).
(e) Licence / Medical Costs
Any costs associated with the upkeep of your licence such as medical costs will be your own responsibility. Any contract with Ryanair will be terminated in the event that you do not obtain and maintain licence validation from the appropriate aviation authority.
(f) Licence
On commencing the type rating course you are required to hold a JAR FCL CPL Licence (with all ATPL exams passed) and a Class 1 JAA Medical. Within the fIrst six months of joining Ryanair you are required to transfer your JAR FCL Licence to the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) and take out an IAA JAR FCL Licence.

Any contract with Ryanair will be terminated in the event that you do not maintain a JAR FCL Licence from the appropriate aviation authority. If you refuse to take out an IAA JAR FCL Licence your contract will be terminated.

2. Line Training

Your B737-800 Line Training will be carried out by Ryanair. This Line Training will be at a cost of STG£90 per sector to Ryanair. Should you fail to honour the full term of this contract or should you fail to accept any offer of a permanent position with Ryanair you will be liable to repay to Ryanair the cost of your line training to that point (the estimated cost of your line training will be STG£6,000).

3. Term

Your training contract will commence upon successful completion of your base check with our Approved Training School to a standard acceptable to the Irish Aviation Authority and Ryanair. This training agreement will terminate six months from that date.
The company reserves the right to extend this training contract or to offer you a permanent contract at the end of this period, however, under no circumstances, should this be considered a guarantee of future employment. If for whatever reason you fail to fulfil the terms and obligations of this Training Contract (for clarity this means you must be available for training for the full six months) you will liable to repay the Base Training costs of €5,072 (€845 per circuit) as well as any line training costs incurred as specifIed in Clause 2 above.

4. Training Hours & Base

Due to the nature of our training, irregular hours, including rostered day or night shifts, are a condition of your training contract. Your line training will take place at any of Ryanair's existing or new European Bases.

5. Training Pay

Your training pay will be at the equivalent rate of €15,000 (Fifteen thousand euro) gross per annum in accordance with section 1 (d) of this training contract. Training pay is paid monthly in arrears into your bank account. This payment will only become effective after commencement of Base training. No other payments will be made for the duration of this contract.



6. MEDICAL EXAMINATION

You must be prepared to be examined by the Company's Medical Officer or his nominee at any time during the course of your training contract at the request of the Chief Pilot or his nominated deputies.. Any medical report generated from that examination will be the property of Ryanair Limited.

7. APPLICABLE LAW

The contractual relationship between Ryanair and you shall at all times be governed by the laws in effect and as amended from time to time in the Republic of Ireland.

8. EXAMINATION FOR SUBSTANCE ABUSE

You must be prepared to be tested for illegal substance by the company's Medical Officer or his nominee at any time during the course of your training contract at the request of the Chief Pilot or his / her nominated deputies. Any medical report generated from that medical examination will be the property of Ryanair. Failure of a substance abuse test will be regarded as gross misconduct and may result in termination of this training contract.

9. TERMINATION OF TRAINING CONTRACT

Whilst Ryanair is committed to honouring the full term of this contract it must be clearly understood that in the event of unforeseen circumstances in the aviation industry eg: acts of terrorism etc., it may be necessary to terminate this contract prior to the full term being completed, in which case training payments will cease on date of termination.

Finally, congratulations on being offered a place on a Ryanair Boeing 737 -800 Training Course.

I, _______________, confirm that I have read, understand and accept the contents of this training contract.

Signed by: ________________ Date

Signed on behalf of Ryanair Limited:

Personnel Date

[The Foss]

HotelAlpha1

I know your claim was false because I and many others joined in the last 10 years without just a 6 month training contract. You are spreading misinformation to claim it’s always been this way. As I said, it’s a gamble that may work out, it may not and some people COULD get their fingers severely burned by this. So go ahead and apply that BS tag to your own post next time

[Fixedgear]

I think this whole scheme worked well for everyone when Ryanair was growing and at the same time was losing hundreds of pilots per year who were moving to greener pastures (and the sandpit). At the moment though everyone is holding on to their position in the hope they will fly some hours this year. Will there be place for the new guys when the company is already this overstaffed? You can not compare the current situation with any pre-Covid period and creating the expectation that career progression will be the same is absolute nonsense.

[YankeeZulu]

Anybody with feed-back from today's assessments in Bergamo? :)

[Billetos]

Wassup y’all

Here’s my feedback


First of all we did the briefing with the HR guy which was really helpful and answered all the questions we had for him. He told us what to expect if we get hired and what we need to do. That lasted for about 30 minutes.

After that one of the assessor captains did the briefing, focusing more on the 737 cockpit layout and the profiles. He helped a lot especially those who had no kind of experience on the 737(APS MCC or Assessment prep). He then explained to us that they’re not going to judge mistakes on the flight that much if we show a tendency of correcting them. Then paired us into crews taking into account the experience everyone had on the 737.


The HR questions were:

1. Tell us about yourself.
2. What did you do before applying or while waiting for the call.
3. Where do you see yourself in five years.
4. If it’s worth for Ryanair buying the 737 Max 200.
5. What traits should a good leader have.
6. If you see your captain not being in the mood to fly or he’s tired or he’s miss behaving, what do you do.
7. Hobbies/interests.
8. They saw my degree in economics so they asked me what is going to happen on the fares after Ryanair gets their 737 Max.
9. When can you start.
10. If you are the manager of a basketball team and you are playing for the cup final and your best player is injured and is not allowed by the doctors to play but he tells you that he wants to play, what do you do? Do you take the risk or do you lose the final? How are you going to motivate your team?
11. Do you prefer being a leader or a follower on a project? Tell us an example.
12. How do you feel about the 30k type rating cost.
13. Did you do an assessment preparation and where?
14. Where did you do the MCC and why that aircraft?(for me it was the 737)


The technical interview consisted of the following questions:

1. 737NG and 737MAX differences.
2. Differences between their engines. (Bypass,EPR,Efficiency,size)
3. If you’re at 260ft at a QNH of 1005, what is the pressure altitude.
4. DA42 electrical system, Vne, Max demonstrated crosswind.
5. What is metar? If you see FZRA what do you do?
6. What is freezing rain?
7. Differences between freezing rain and sleet.
8. Clear ice - what is it? Is it dangerous.
9. Why do you prefer the Boeing over the airbus and why didn’t you apply for Aegean Airlines?(greek airliner operating the A320 fleet)
10. If you are on a 270° heading and the wind is coming from 300°/20knots, what is the crosswind and how do you calculate it?


The entire HR/Technical interview was done in a really informal and friendly way with none of them asking tricky questions or difficult ones. They were both pretty helpful and didn’t try to stress anyone of the candidates.


The sim assessment:

It was East Midlands for the entire group.
SID: Rwy 27 TNT 2N
ILS 27 with radar vectors.

I was the PF first because I had some experience on the 737 so the assessor put me first.
He allowed time for me to setup, brief my PM and he even helped us on the setup part, explaining to my PM where to find all the switches and the navaid selections for when his turn comes, due to his lack of experience in the 737 sim.

He didn’t want me to brief the emergency, they really want to see you fly so keep the briefing short and precise with only open ended questions to avoid confirmation bias.

We flew the SID with F/D on up to the point that we intercepted the inbound radial to TNT. He then told me to do some turns with 30° and 45° angle, first with the F/D ON so we can take a look at the attitude indicator (Don’t take that for granted, not everyone tried turns with the F/D on).The F/D was then switched OFF for the remainder of the assessment. After that we did some air work including 30°,45° turns, climbs and descends, climbs with constant speed and constant V/S, descends with constant speed and V/S, leading to a combination of all these together.

Then he asked me to tell him our whereabouts (Radial and distance) from the EME NDB and what HOLDING ENTRY is required in case I need to go back to the station. He also asked me if we need to intercept a QDM/QDR, what heading should we follow. They only want you to answer, not to actually do it. He also asked me and my PM to point where we think we are on the APPROACH PLATE.

Then came the emergency situation, for me a passenger collapsed on the way to the toilet and the passengers were panicking. I handed over controls to my PM telling him to continue flying this heading, speed and altitude before answering to the Cabin crew call. I told him to stand by and I will get back to him after I discuss the situation with my copilot. I did a TDODAR, again asking open ended questions, I informed the ATC and I called the cabin crew to do a NITS briefing, clearly stating that he should keep me informed about any change, I did a PA where the assessor stopped me telling me that the PA was completed (they really appreciated the PA because it showed good CRM skills to them). I then setup the aircraft for the ILS 27 East Midlands and I briefed my PM asking him to call altitudes and distances for the flap and gear configuration.

He gave us Radar Vectors for the approach and allowed many miles to intercept the LOCALIZER (around 14 in my case / around 15 to my PM when his turn came up). He helped my PM when it was his turn telling him what N1% he should fly during the approach and what to setup. My ILS was spot on so he gave us no reason to go around maybe because the whole session as PF was perfect. My PM on the other hand had to go around because the unstable approach criteria were out of limits. It would be best to do a quick DODAR or PIOSEE after the go around before letting the assessor reposition you back to 10 miles final.

The sim assessment then came to an end and he told us that we will receive the answer within a weeks time.


On a personal note I would like to give some advice to the next candidates:

Firstly and most importantly, always be yourself and don’t try to show off your technical knowledge on the 737 - it doesn’t work and it will leave the assessor with a bad opinion of you especially if you mess up.

If you don’t know the answer on a question be honest and simply tell them that you don’t know the answer!

Always try to help the other candidates, wether that is on the sim or before their technical interview. (Especially in the sim the assessor will form a great opinion of you if you show that you care about others and not only for yourself).

Try rehearsing the answers that might come up during the HR interview at home before going for the assessment. It really helps being fluent and having a well structured answer.

And finally, it would really benefit you giving some money for a simulator assessment preparation. It’s an opportunity that doesn’t come everyday in your life so don’t feel bad for spending a small amount of money to feel more ready and relaxed during the “big day”.

Hope my experience helps others!

[eckhard]

Great description, thanks for posting and hope you get in!

[Fnlpilot]

Hi,

I'm still wondering are there more applicants like me who didn't get any invitation to the pre assessments after filling the AFA form? Or are there applicants who have got the invitation to the pre assessments recently? I filled mine in December as ready to pay the 30K but I haven't received any invitation or reply whatsoever. I've been practicing the cut-e tests for a few months now and obviously they have filled a few courses with applicants already with the interviews running as well, wondering if it's still sensible to keep practicing for the tests..

[Antoine3]

Great feedback, thanks a lot!

[hsilva7]

Fnlpilot

I also haven’t received anything yet...

[Mikegoesflying]

I am not entirely sure how they sort through the applications, but I applied in the last days of December 2020. And I got an email from AFA that is was invited to do the online assessment sometime in the first week of February. Approximately two weeks after doing the online assessment I got an email stating that my online assessment was successful and that I would be added to a holding pool, and that I would be contacted in due time for setting up the actual physical assessment. And a day later I was offered two possible dates to attend the assessment in Bergamo, Italy.

As a piece of advice, I would not focus too much on those cut-e tests. Sure it is great to just go through them to get a feel of the actual tests but in my opinion, your time is much more well spent digging through your old ATPL notes if you are a bit rusty, as this is also part of the online assessment and most certainly will be part of the technical questions you will get if you get to the actual physical assessment.

[JackTorrance]

@Fnlpilot
I also haven’t received anything yet...applied on December 16th

[eimin]

Fixedgear

sensible comment for once, couldn't agree more.

[RobVetta]

Billetos thanks, THIS is the kind of comments that should go with this post.
It seems your HR questions mirrored mine, especially the one about the captain not being fit to fly, and a very specific question about a very specific situation (the basketball one).

Fnlpilot during my assessment, most of the candidates did the Cut-E test between April and September 2020. Ryanair might have a ton of applications to sort out, so don't worry if yours take a while.

[PapaMike737]

Hello everyone,

quick feedback of my assessment in Bergamo!We got East Midlands RWY 27 TNT2N Departure, plenty of time to brief your colleague before and the charts they are using are navtech plates.

For the takeoff profile, they dont want you to touch the thrust levers neither as PF or PM and let the autothrust do its thing.

Also they want very short briefings, they didn’t even want an emergency briefing and all checklists are done by the assessor, they just want to see that the candidate is thinking about them.

After takeoff follow the FD bars, at 1500 AGL climb thrust, 3000 AGL Bug up. When established on radial FD off and some airwork which consisted of: 45° turns, acceleration to 280 kts and decelarating back to 220, turns combined with decents/climbs and decents with steady fpm in our case 700 fpm. At some point he told my PM that he has control and I had to tell him where we are regarding to the EME NDB. He also wanted to know what kind of entry I would fly on the current QDM for a holding.

Then we were intercepting QDM/QDRs and the cabin called me that there is a passenger who is not responding to anything.

I told him that he should look for an doctor and call me back if there are any news.

He did after a minute and told me there is no doctor and that the passenger looks like he is dead.

I handed my controls to my PM and did a quick FORDEC.

After that I gave a PAN PAN to ATC and requested immediate landing and what time we can expect for landing.

Then I briefed the cabin with a NITS briefing.

The assessor told us at that stage that the emergency is over and he will reposition us for ILS 27 and give us vectors. Meanwhile I tuned the navaids and briefed for the approach.

I configured the plane early for landing with flaps 5 and speed 170 knots.

I was a little bit low at the end on the glide but everything in the limits.

They also briefed us in the morning in case of getting a small deviation like more than 1000 fpm or below/above 1 Dot deflection not to go around immediately if there is a trend of correcting.

For the interview:

HR : All in all the questions were very specific and can’t be generalized.

Also how I would manage a bad decision of a captain.

Technical interview was very hard for me.

He asked a lot about flightplanning:

Fuel calculations: what is included (Trip, Final Reserve, Alternate, Contingency)
ETOPS
Does Ryanairs Boeings do have ETOPS?
How much Boeings does Ryanair have?
What is Fog? And how does it form? What kinds?
What is TEM? (if I remember correctly, I didnt know what he mean)
1x Calculation for pressure altitude which was really easy: 260 ft altitude on qnh 1005 what is pressure altitude? Answer: 500 ft
What is a sea breeze and what to expect during approach?
Swept wings : Advantages/disadvantages and how does it work?
Differences between MAX/NG

That's what I still remember.

Be calm, don't rush things, they will give you time for everything!
This was the fairest interview and assessment I've ever had.

I wish everyone who is considering this route best of luck!

[hsilva7]

Hello guys,

do you know if RYR is still recruiting for their TR PROGRAM?
are they still asking people to do the online assessments?

I have submitted my application on the 11th January but I haven’t received any invitation yet...
do you think it’s normal?

thanks

[Raph737]

Jesus christ mate the information it is literally one page back...

[CaptainJim]

A320LGW

The profession has been a disgrace for many years so what’s new? Belittling newcomers won’t solve anything. You don’t care about them, they don’t care about you and Ryanair certainly don’t but that’s the LOCO mentality.

Perhaps you should spend your time volunteering at BALPA or ECA and try to get some positive work done to stop these airlines exploiting people. Euro Loco pilot pay is almost on par with US regionals now but at least they have the opportunity to move up and eventually make it to the Majors where Senior Captains can make north of $500k with overtime, even the average FO makes more than a Euro LOCO Captain. What’s the difference between the US and EU? UNIONS!

With all the experienced pilots that have lost their jobs in the Middle East and Asia on the market it’s going to be a bumpy road ahead in EASA land unless something changes.

[misteredin2]

hsilva7

Hi! I sent my documents Monday this week. Tuesday afternoon they sent me a link to make a payment of 55€, after which I received another link with 10 exercises to complete within 72hrs, which I finished today.

Less than two hours later they replied with an email saying that I passed the online assessment and am invited to a live assessment session on April 7th in Rome. Of all my friends who have applied (around 20) one has failed the online assessment and one has failed the simulator.

Let’s see how it goes. Will keep you posted.

[JackTorrance]

They called you the next day you applied?
I've applied three months ago, I think my application it's in the recycle bin now...
How many friends of your 20 have been called?
Thanks

[misteredin2]

Check on the ryanair website, or try to contact them. Have you uploaded all the required documents? All my friends but those 2 have been taken.

[hsilva7]

Hi misteredin2,

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I have just received, today, my invitation for the online pre-assessment (almost 3 months after my application)...

Are the exercises of the online pre-assessment like the ones present on the link bellow?
https://airlineassessmentprep.com/irish-low-cost-carrier-assessment-preparation/

If I understood correctly I have 5 days to register on the AON website and pay the 55€ fee, and then the clock starts ticking with a max 3 days to complete the entire assessment, right?

thanks

[david1990]

Hi guys
first id like to congratulate all of you who managed to pass the assessment.
Im just curious what did they promise you during the assessment where they gonna take you because before the COV19 started RYR had around 500 surplus of pilots and now they want to fly 80% of schedule ( what i dont think so they will do) and they hire even more people. Crazy...smells so strong like just @moneymaking
and they always talk about getting people for summer 22 but if they needed you for summer 22, they would start TR during winter not now.
be careful guys....

[SLDN]

misteredin2

Can you be more specific? What kind of exercises?

[DaveSpart]

To all those who recently have been invited/accepted interviews for the new cadet scheme, Congratulations! You kept your knowledge and skills through these tough/trying times and that is something to be proud of!

However, I wouldn't forgive myself if I din't leave a warning here, noting it will probably go to waste in the non stop circle jerk of "the dream job".
I fully understand that in the current climate you want to take any job offer, let alone to operate a 737, but please, be very cautious of what you get in to.

Why would RYR hire cadets when the full pilot body has signed for a 4 year significant pay cut (20%) due to lack in demand?
Why would they hire cadets when there is a very large supply or rated guys and gals available tomorrow?

RYR is using the type rating scheme as a quick means of extra revenue. 30k for a type rating while it cost them well below 20k. Now I hear you saying already, "well at least then we have a job that pays well and move on etc." keep dreaming, regardless of how the recruitment team present this: there is no guaranteed job offer connected to the training contract. The only thing you will get for your 30k is learn how to press Vnav, take some base training pictures for the gram and be on your way to unemployment (exciting).

And say even if you do somehow end up flying on the line be prepared for a very disappointing reality check, the job is not the glamour the instagram "influencers" make it out to be. They would hype up a job as a garbage collector to random people online to compensate for their lack of self worth. You will join a company that is brutal to its employees to the point where they will close a base meaning the entire workforce & their families have to move just to prove a point. The money will be a half of what they "promise" when you sign on, and I will bet you a 10er you will not get a base even in the same country as you would like (or even the same company for that matter), Bucharest here we come!

Sorry to bring such a negative rant, but having been in this company for a couple of years I truly wish I listened to the advice from people who were/are RYR and who told me to stay far, far away. There are still descent employers out there, but they are quickly disappearing when companies who profit on P2f schemes do so well.

Good luck to you wether you pursue this route or not, things will hopefully turn around at some stage, and if not, plenty of well paying jobs outside of aviation where you don't need to wake up at 04:00 5 days in a row.

regards,
A worn out VNAV presser.

[FlyingStone]

Why would they hire cadets when there is a very large supply or rated guys and gals available tomorrow?

RYR have always preferred cadets to experienced people and have only hired the latter when the influx of cadets combined with exodus of staff wasn't enough to keep aircraft flying.

[The Foss]

Because they are desperate enough to queue up to pay 30k for a 0 hour contract... that is why they are ‘preferred’ over experienced pilots who may only need a short OCC but are generally directly employed and not self funding the training

[HotelAlpha1]

david1990

Starting TR's in winter would mean you'd be completing LT in spring 2022 with some most likely doing it into summer. This is the exact scenario RYR are trying to avoid.

[HotelAlpha1]

DaveDurban

Don't know where to start with this post? the insecurity towards fellow pilots? button pusher? complaining about 4am starts? the general lack on interest in aviation? the full post?

This type of attitude epitomizes everything that is wrong with the industry. What a real shame!

"A worn out VNAV presser" :ugh:

[A320LGW]

@hotelalpha who are you and what are your credentials? You signed up 2 years ago and every single one of your 8 posts has been on this thread.

Anyone with one eye can see what is going on here. The rest who are blind and won't see logic if it punched them in the face are beyond guidance, they will themselves come to realise the mistake they are making.

[Contact Approach]

HotelAlpha1

Its clear you have no family commitments and are too young to yet understand the intricacies and burden of financial responsibility and or married life. Your peer is simply telling you facts based on their experience. This scheme currently is not a viable career path for anyone with the slightest ounce of common sense or responsibility.
For anyone who truly wishes to go ahead proceed only knowing the full facts.

[HotelAlpha1]

A320LGW Well Done, you know how to look at someone's post history and joining date:D. Frankly it's none of your business but if you're hinting at something which I think you may be then you're WAY off the mark. I'm here giving my twopence on this particular subject and if you look at my previous posts you'll see I've tried to balance both sides of the argument unlike yourself and a few select others which frankly is a shame.

To suggest anyone who signs up for the scheme is "blind" is blatant ignorance, massive lack of perspective and to be honest - disrespectful, especially towards fellow aviators.

I personally don't see why they will come to "realise the mistake" but that's possibly because....THERE IS NO MISTAKE - It's a calculated gamble in the next step of flight training just like every step in the past stages of their training was, albeit with more risk/cost IMO, a gamble that we will see in the not too distant future if it has paid off or not.

Now you've also said they "won't see logic if it punched them in the face are beyond guidance" which begs the question why do you continue to spam this otherwise useful thread with your nonsense? Yes none of us here agree with the whole 30k type rating or paying anything towards a type rating for that matter but you sir have clearly got an agenda towards this particular carrier.

You should take your own advice, let this thread be used for what is supposed to be used for and take you're opinions over to a new thread.

[HotelAlpha1]

Contact Approach

I disagree with that last part of you're statement but I do fully agree with the first part. I'd be of the opinion that It would be too risky (at this point in time) had you a family/other responsibilities to consider but again that's why I've been trying to balance both sides here.

What's not fair is for those without said commitments and interest in the scheme are being fed mis-information on here with fake contracts/t&c's.

[Contact Approach]

If you have more accurate and up to date information to add to what I have already posted by all means share it so that you can set the record straight.

[kitenation]

Lucky you to be able to „gamble 30k€” where if you do it with a little of planning itd not much less than the complete cost of 0-ATPL training. The guys are just trying to warn people. Just think about it, nów much pilots they need if 2 years ago they were offering 20k€ for joining RYR if u were rated giving a bond for those who were not. I myself have a lot of friends in RYR flying there for years now on unpaid leave.

its all find as long as u are rich guy from Home riaking nothing. But many people are so blinded and naive to Try to take loans just to sign in for the training.

[HotelAlpha1]

Contact Approach

Sorry I didn't necessarily mean yourself but anyway it's things people have claimed e.g.:
-Little to no hours over winter, contract potentially in April
- employment subject to individual performance (no sick days)
- will be on zero hours with a ryr contractor
- cadets sign contact on day 1 and are unable to see before paying full TR fee.

I know this isn't true because I know people currently on this scheme and what they've told/showed me was confirmed by someone working for the company on social media over the weekend which is there for all to see.

[HotelAlpha1]

kitenation

Not me personally sir but I agree and all for making people aware//warning them of things but its got to be balance IMO, something a few on here aren't accepting.

Sadly yeah I agree that this scheme is for a select few as mentioned previously which of course is wrong and it shouldn't be the case.

[Contact Approach]

This industry is all about timing and like kitenation points out, simply, now is just not the time. Keep the day job, keep your ratings current, try to get flying when possible and times will get better. I fear those committing to this scheme aren’t giving their sponsors the full picture and living on past laurels. The past is NOT representative of the future just now, no airline I know of is short of crew based on demand well beyond 2022.

The future is still very much undecided so the worst position to be in would be to take out a loan for this course and get little to no flying done this year, which is very likely. You will finish inexperienced and may lack confidence if sat around for months/years until something happens. You are not employed by Ryr during line training so they WILL fly their guys first to keep them current. You will likely have to renew your own TR and god only knows if Ryr will take you back a few years down the line.

Guys/Girls, just wait it out and if a recovery actually happens then by all means weigh up the risks, but for now this whole scheme is just a money spinner.

[misteredin2]

hsilva7

all but the personality test were exactly the same.

[Wilco152]

Can you remember were the technical questions the same as in airlineassessmentprep.com?

[Xavelha]

Contact Approach

I second this, that’s pretty much what needs to be said. The guys are struggling to keep current atm, but ryr won’t definitely say no to whoever queued to pay 30k to enter the draft to sit on a 737.

[BoeingLudo737]

Please stop disseminating incorrect info on this thread. Not sure what your real agenda is but it's getting a bit ridicolous at this stage.

Attention all: Stop reading Contact Approach's false comments

[Pilot1323]

Guys, quick question. I received the invitation for the online pre assessment. I'm training on latestpilotjobs, all the exercises are sort of good except the bloody moving dots, on hard level i can get right 1 or 2 out of 15, and it's just guessing. For me it's really impossibile to count them. Any one has some tips or tricks in order to deal with that specific exercise? Thanks a lot in advance!!!

[arrowcapitan]

BoeingLudo737

Contact Approach is not spreading false info . He is right !! The T&C are degrading very fast !!

[Contact Approach]

BoeingLudo737

He/She is clearly part of the Ryr team so take what they say with a pinch of salt.

The fact remains, now is not the time. Just wait.

[Less Hair]

Looks like the FAA certified the MAX 8 200 yesterday. No EASA yet.

[rotorwills]

When EASA certify the Max8 200, it changes the game. RyanAir are reported to have 210 on order. This gives them a real edge. They can dispose of most of their present fleet into a returning healthy market and possibly get more than they initially paid Boeing. 197 pax provides excellent opportunity's. They pay their crew primary less than their competitors which puts them at the front of the queue. They will need crew of course and one may suppose that a conveyor belt of new cadets is necessary to ensure they stay below of competition in terms of crew costs.

My view supports the need to get recruits. They aren't so stupid as to promise jobs at the completion of training but if the trainee is competent then i would expect a job with them would be a certainty.

[Pilot1323]

PapaMike737

Thanks a lot for your feedback! I sent you a private message should you have any time to give it a look I would super appreciate it. Thanks again!

[dutchier]

Hi

Anyone knows how to solve the multitasking test? The lining up the airplane with the runway and solving the sums and deduct etc I get but what about the ''RREVX'' ''NQUAO'' ''MCRIBB'' I get them wrong every single time and don't seem to get the logic?

[Polirised89]

It's simple just when you see 2 characters same is correct when all the characters are different then is wrong. So "RREVX''- correct, ''NQUAO'' - wrong, ''MCRIBB"- correct. Hope it helps.

[BoeingLudo737]

Contact Approach

If someone disagrees with you they are the ryr team?

[Climb150]

So RYR are still taking money for assessment for a job most won't be offered or even start til 2022 at the earliest. After they have bought back all the laid off pilots.

I should start a RYR Interview prep business.

[arrowcapitan]

unfortunately this offer is for low hour pilots coming out from school not for pilots with 1000's under their belt . I hope in the end those who were laid off by FR get their jobs back .

[Climb150]

I'm saying RYR will bring back all the current pilots they have sitting at home before any of these people get a call. I doubt the current crews will be called back this year.

[dirk85]

For those hoping in a quick recovery take a look at Ryanair financial year report. They will close fy 2021 with almost 1 billion loss, which is not bad all things considered, but they still predict barely to break even in 2022.
Better than most companies, but just to give you an idea if how long it’s going to take to go back to 2019 levels.

Ryanair expects to report a loss of between €800m and €850m Low-fares airline Ryanair has reduced its loss forecast in respect of the 12 months to March 31 this year.

Ryanair has said it expects to report a loss of between €800m and €850m in its financial year 2021.

In February the airline said it expected to report a loss of between of between €850m and €950m for the period, in what it said would be “the most challenging year in Ryanair’s 35 year history.”

The Ryanair Group's full-year traffic was 27.5 million for the 12 months to March 31, down from 149 million in its financial year 2020, which ended at the early stages of Covid-19 restrictions across Europe.

The airline’s passenger numbers were impacted over the last 12 months by Covid-19 travel restrictions.

Year-end cash at 31 March was over €3.15bn, down from €3.5bn in December.

In a statement today the airline said Easter travel restrictions and a delayed traffic recovery into the peak summer season means that financial year 2022 traffic is likely to be towards the lower end of its previously guided range of 80 million to 120 million passengers.

Ryanair said that while it is not possible at this time to provide meaningful profit guidance in respect of its financial year 2022, “we do not share the recent optimism of certain analysts as we believe that the outcome for FY22 is currently close to breakeven.”

[Pilotser]

Hi guys,
has someone from the first courses in February, already finished the T/R?

[PPRuNeUser0156]

when most of the ground school is distance learning over zoom with considerable self study, I highly doubt it!

[iome]

FR2102 are coming up the the last fixed based sessions this week... my guess they'll be done by mid May in the SIM. might be a wait for base trng

[Contact Approach]

Might be a wait for an employment contract also...

[Climb150]

So Ryanair aren't rebounding and hiring like crazy? Who could have predicted that!

[iome]

Cadet training now starting in Bergamo too, possibly two more locations in Europe.

The deal is, type rating now and unpaid leave until summer 2022.
​​​​​Unpaid leave make it sounds like you are an employee, but make no mistake ... You aren't!

[Perseas]

Who has attended Ryanair's cadet webinar yesterday? They seemed very pissed when they were asked about the no job guarantee thing asking us to stop reading :mad: full of negativity in pprune 😄

[Airone2977]

Just out of curiosity ? TR validity is 12 months, so I wonder how things are going to work for the cadets.
Before the pandemic, they had a very clever rule to put cadet in the sim every 21 days before LT, would it be the same here ? What about renewal, who's paying for that ?

[Contact Approach]

Guys,

Your TR will have to renewed by yourself at your own cost. Ryanair have no commitments to you whatsoever.

Just wait until next year and see how things are, wait for ops to return to semi normal levels and recruitment elsewhere to open up. Do not waste 30K right now.

Ryanair have no intention of you flying anytime soon.

[PPRuNeUser0156]

Perseas

They were pissed because they don’t have an answer and can’t spin it into a positive.

The ridiculous thing is they all post on LinkedIn saying ‘Welcome to Ryanair’ when their next customer posts about the joy of being accepted, further misleading people.

There’s a reason that webinar was closed off and it’s because they want an echo chamber of false positivity and nobody to ask them any difficult questions on what the REALITY actually is.

If the recruitment team/airline have nothing to hide, they should publish the contract and clearly outline every risk and provide a breakdown of the salary etc. Better yet, just engage with the difficult questions on LinkedIn rather than just deleting them and blocking the person who asks it.

[The Foss]

iome

I’d heard the same. Not the time to be rushing into it. What happens when the demand finally comes, are they going to prioritise the fresh cadets that have just completed their training or the ones going in now that will have potentially not flown for a year and have no hours on the line.. they’ll require a decent amount of re-training and will have put themselves to the back of the queue.

[Mikegoesflying]

iome

That is simply not correct the training contract is for type rating, base training, and a fixed term training contract lasting for 6 months from the completion of base training. So yes you may be put on leave for a couple of months depending on when your base training is completed. But for anyone starting type rating this summer with a time schedule of approximately 1 month of distance learning followed by 2 months of training at a training center then base training and lastly, a 6 month fixed term training contract it is not likely that people will be on leave for more than a few months

Secondly, I would like to say that this "opportunity" is definitely not for everyone, but that being said if you are not in a pinch money-wise and if you don't mind possibly being on leave for a short time go for it.

[Fixedgear]

FlyingGreek

Exactly that. And the ATOs are complicit. The likes of AFTA, Aviomar, Bartolini Air, VA etc feed this scheme by recommending to their students to sign up for it. They do this knowing very well that there is a big chance these cadets will pay the 30K and will never be called up by Ryanair after the 6 month training contract is finished. Whether the ATOs involved get a kickback from RYR or do this to attract customers to their failing businesses we will not know, but they should at least be held accountable over time for not telling the full truth, creating false positives and neglecting their duty of care towards their students, thus pushing young people further into debt on the false promise of employment.

We all know that the more cadets get into debt to pay for the training, the more desperate they are to get a job and the quicker they will accept ultra-low terms and conditions to work. This in turn will be exploited by the airline to drive down the pay for established crew even further.

What we can do as an industry in order to keep the next generation of pilots out of harms way and to protect our own position is to stop recommending these ATOs for training. Some have build up a stellar reputation over the years but seem to have no qualms (mis)using that reputation in these difficult times to make an extra buck on the backs of the young people that in good faith trust their guidance. Hopefully in time these training organisations will come to the conclusion that the reputational damage inflicted by being associated with this scheme makes it not worthwhile being part of it.

For anyone considering to sign up for it, don't. Wait till RYR starts offering the bonded TR again, only then there is a guaranteed job with acceptable terms and conditions waiting for you after your initial 6 month training contract is over.

[Banana Joe]

What happens next year if all these cadets will be flying instead?:rolleyes:

I am not defending this scheme in any way, but this is grossly similar to what it used to be until mid-2018 and it has worked out for many also in here, and Covid hopefully won't be forever. Look at all the US carriers again hiring in full swing.

I see too much hypocrisy here, hidden behind the current crisis caused by the pandemic. A crisis that will be temporary.

[The Foss]

If every single one of these cadets is flying it means the whole industry will have recovered massively which would be great news. If that’s the case, it’s likely Ryanair would have to offer the bonded scheme again, especially with a reduced number set to be coming out the training schools for the next couple of years.
Overall it’s a lot of risk for very little reward, as if the industry doesn’t rebound you’re in a very bad position, but if it does rebound this opportunity (and likely better ones) will be there anyway. Sometimes it’s best to sit on your hands rather than jump straight in. There is still a lot of uncertainty so comparing it to pre 2018 when you were pretty much guaranteed 800+ annual hours straight from completion of line training and a command in 3.5 years isn’t really realistic.

[Perseas]

FlyingGreek

They tried to be very positive but with no any strong arguments to support it. In their powerpoint presentation they said that traffic will be 80% of pre-covid levels in summer 21 and 100% pre-covid levels in winter 21-22. Also they said that the price of the type rating won't change for the next 5-7 years minimum and that only ryanair will be hiring cadets in the following years(!!!). They insisted that we do the ryanair aps mcc as well. When they were asked about the job guarantee thing they said that it has always been the same, even before covid. You have to pass the assessment, the training and we do want you to work for us etc etc but nothing more.

[Contact Approach]

Absolute nonsense. All of it.

I know for a fact Aer lingus will be recruiting low houred guys within the next 5 years for certain.

Ryanair appear desperate, it’s obvious for all to see. Like FG rightly points out, if it was as rosy as they make out they’d provide all the info you need to make the right decision. If they needed you they’d also remove the thorn in their side and provide some sort of guarantee for those starting TR that employment would come at some point.

They’re simply profiting from the circumstances they find presently which favours only them and not the cadets.

You are worth more than that. Just wait until things pick up and give yourself a chance.

[Banana Joe]

The Foss

It seems to me Ryanair are planning on recruiting cadets only from a few selected schools in the future.

[Perseas]

Contact Approach

I didn't believe a thing they said. 100% pre-covid traffic levels in winter 21-22? Only ryanair will be hiring cadets in the next years? Seriously? The only thing that did make sense was that salaries will have restored to pre-covid levels in 2024. Another thing that sounded suspicious was that after the 6-month training we will be provided with ryanair or "employment agency" contract.. At the webinar we couldn't post our questions until they were approved by them. You could feel their discomfort when they read the no job guarantee questions. And there were many of them.
Obviously, I am not going to apply until I see with my own eyes that aviation is restoring and that the first cadets do fly. 30 k is a huge amount of money to spare it for nothing.

[Fixedgear]

Banana Joe

Many things will be uncertain during the coming recovery but one thing that is absolutely 100% sure is that RYR will not restrict their cadet intake to those from a few selected schools.

Dealing with just a few selected schools would go against Ryanair's fundamental modus operandi for the simple reason that that would create a superficial pilot shortage by unnecessarily restricting the choice in applicants. Ryanair needs the net to be as wide as possible so that there are always plenty of candidates for the jobs going. Only in that way they can keep downward pressure on terms and conditions.

[The Foss]

Banana Joe

Never going to happen. Even EasyJet ended up scrapping their Oxford/CTC only policy. Ryanair relies on a surplus of pilots either in the company or queuing to enter to keep Ts and Cs down. Conditions improved a few years ago when they lost both that internal and external surplus. Why would they impose restrictions and a potential shortage on themselves?

[Contact Approach]

Hahahahaha!! Ryanair being selective!? Are you actually joking? Just checking it’s not April 1st.....

[SimoFly]

As many of you have already mentioned Ryanair is not looking for pilots to hire right after type rating. At the moment they are looking to sell their type ratings with the possibility of an employment in April 2022. If you guys want to see the price change you should wait, maybe in the future the price will come down to an acceptable price.
As long as they have naive cadets paying for basically nothing there is no reason for Ryanair to bring down the price as they mentioned in the webinar. I heard of so many bad experiences that made me more cautious in front of these decisions unfortunately there are people that are impulsive and are eager to make the move NOW, they might eventually get a job but one thing is sure they are driving down terms and conditions for everyone else.
I don't agree that Ryanair will be the only airline hiring cadets in the future, as they mentioned in the webinar. Many other airlines have hired cadets in the past and they will in the future when this pandemic will be under control.
Just be patient!

[Contact Approach]

Ryanairrecruitment

If you’re inundated with applications across Europe then surely your time would be better spent sorting said applications and assessing people instead of posting here on Pprune. Why bother unless theres something in it for you? You don’t need anymore crew right now and Ryanair are well known for protecting only themselves so to suggest you’re here on a genuine basis is laughable.

You can’t bluff people into spending 30K on false hope and negative speculation, frankly it’s poor form. To suggest those shouldn’t pursue a career due to “negative mindset” based on not taking your bait is shameful.

Your green neighbours will be taking low houred guys, bonding them and paying them from day 1...

So unprofessional.

oh dear, what absolute waffle and a misconstrued idea of reality, you are better off applying to another airline, Eurowings, Luftie?, Sun Express...

At least they actually pay their staff.

[Contact Approach]

Well who’s talking rubbish now? Jan 2020 they were looking for 100 with further needed summer 2020. The direct entry criteria had no hours requirement only that you held a current CPL / IR and medical. Applicants varied from recently graduated modular/integrated students through to 787 Captains, with no preference over one another. The TR was bonded with a reduced salary for two years - 65K going to 85K after the bond. You also get something called a contract of employment before you begin, strange that huh?

Cadets with no flying experience are the 15 you talk about and they were fully funded by the Airline.

I do feel for you though... O’leary is really making you work hard for those coins these days huh? Do you have to pay for your internet connection by the hour?

[Xavelha]

Can’t actually believe they created a Pprune profile :oh:
do you get paid more for this ? Or is it part of your contract ? Genuinely curious

the need alone to have to come here and fight like a keyboard warrior just shows how low you can go. If this is what you do publicly, can’t imagine what you do privately. Oh wait I actually do...

[PPRuNeUser0156]

Ryanairrecruitment

This must be a troll account. I find it hard to believe a genuine professional would write this kind of dross.

[flyfan]

@ Xavelha: This account is there since Jan 2019 according to the stats on the left side, so it wasn't specifically made for these posts. :ok:

[Xavelha]

yeah because that makes it so much better :ugh:

[jonesyinthesky]

Ryanairrecruitment, as an ex RYR pilot keep up the good work and i am sure there are many cadets across Europe who will be happy to have a job at RYR, i was one of those and had no problem paying €30k back in the day on a Mc Ginley contract, i got command within 4 years, two years in left hand seat then left to do long haul, these doubters sound like disgruntled ex pilots or rejected candidates.

[Contact Approach]

Hahahaha! You can’t make this stuff up. It’s like on of those reviews you see on scam ad saying all the right things when in fact it ‘s merely a scam.

As has been pointed out countless times guys. JUST WAIT UNTIL THINGS RETURN TO NORMAL. Ryanair will be more than happy to take your money in the future and it will always be an option. But wait until there’s some actual demand for flying again. Whats the point in rushing into a TR course now when you won’t be needed until at least summer 2022 and that’s not guaranteed. There’s no queue and there’s no need to worry about places as they have said themselves here they will be hiring thousands in the next few years. The worst position you can put yourself in is to have completed a TR and a few sectors before a long time out on the sidelines before getting back into it. That will do no favours to your confidence or competency. The HR guys above haven’t the foggiest about flying aeroplanes, they’re just here to milk the cow - waterboys.

[Xavelha]

jonesyinthesky

this is pure comedy, looking for a Base Captain job are we ?

[jonesyinthesky]

is it forbidden on here to speak positively about a previous employer that set me up on my future career? i do not work for them anymore so i am not looking for a base captain job, why do you guys waste your time on a thread that is supposed to be about interviews and sim assessments?

[Contact Approach]

Because people are being taken for a ride and they ought to know the facts. You of all people should know that.

What’s wrong with waiting to see how things play out?

[Banana Joe]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but if they see this question, is there also any foreseen recruitment for Direct Entry type rated applicants if the market starts picking up? :O​​​​​​

[Contact Approach]

They’ve make it quite clear that they will only recruit cadets... I do wonder why!?

[Perseas]

Because they adapt better to Ryanair's SOPs! That's what they said 😃

[Flying90]

Ryanairrecruitment

Thank you for hosting the webinar, I am almost finishing flight training and then I will apply for the €30K program.

To all the frustrated pilots who can’t afford the TR, see y’all! This page is for information concerning assessment, and not to express your salted opinion.

[flyfan]

Ryanairrecruitment

Ermmm...ok. I posted one (neutral) answer regarding when your account was created. Nothing more, nothing less. I find it kind of unfriendly, to say at least, to receive this answer; especially from a professional account representing an airline.

[Contact Approach]

Ryanair are that desperate they’ve actually come here to cry fake news. Those who have contributed here are all offering sound advice. Why wouldnt you want to know all of the facts before parting with 30k for a job that currently does not exist.

If Ryanair were so sure this was as good as it gets they wouldn’t be here slagging people off they’d be putting the facts straight and giving you all the answers, after all this is the Ryanair interview and assessment thread right?

So c’mon Ryanairrecruitment put the record straight, prove us all wrong and provide the valuable information these people are seeking so they can see what it is they are getting themselves into... or is that not what you want?

And to save those from saying this is a job then here is the very meaning by definition:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1265x807/9619b768_219e_437d_8335_36c9003b2f86_5ce9335a2900f1c4aa09406 bb7825e608fe0a764.jpeg

[Flying90]

Contact Approach

I would really want to know where you get your information from? I personally have 2 close friends who work for Ryanair now and they started a few years ago, same thing 30k upfront etc.

How do you know you dont get a job? Because as I read your comments you are basically already assuming Ryanair will not offer you a job after the TR

[Contact Approach]

I get my information from people going through this very scheme now. Two years ago is irrelevant because there wasn’t a pandemic and the world wasn’t closed.

You do not sign anything but a training contract which covers TR, base training and line training, there’s zero guarantee you will be offered a job when that finishes. This may have worked in the past when the world was flying and people just wanted their hours then leave for greener pastures however that is no longer the case. No one is flying and no one will leave for sometime to come. Pay has been frozen until 2024 that tells you all you need to know in terms of a realistic demand forecast.

So ask yourself: when will you be needed and what guarantee do you have that that will be summer 2022? How will you keep yourself and your rating current between finishing the training contract and being employed? If or when that even happens.

Ask your mates how much flying they’ve done in 12 months and you’ll have your answer. Also, If no one can move on and demand isn’t there for sometime to come where are you going to fit in?

Like i said previously I am happy for Ryanairrecruitment to correct me if I am wrong. I have a hunch they won’t offer anything constructive though.

[Flying90]

What I am trying to say is that it was always like this, always cadets paid for the TR and there was never a job guarantee. (With airlines like RYR hiring cadets)

Before I started my ATPL training I investigated and it was pretty clear for me that I would have to pay the TR myself. Or the airline has some kind of bond or the TR needed to pay upfront. It seems that many people are surprised by the fact that they need to pay for their own TR and now are frustrated because they only calculate the cost of the ATPL and probably thought that this investment was enough to bring them in the cockpit.

Off course this scheme is risky without a job guarantee but it always been like that, some people suggest here to wait. I know guys that finished and waited…waited… and waited… And are still waiting..

[Contact Approach]

In 2019 the TR cost was 5k and included a bond, there was a level of commitment from both sides. Right now there’s zero commitment from Ryanair and all the risk is on the cadet. Would you buy a car for 30k if there was a chance it may be delivered sometime in the future but it wasnt guaranteed? probably not. You could even argue that at least you get a 737 TR but its all but useless without the hours on type, less so in todays market.

The guys you know are waiting because realistically that is all you can do right now.

[Flying90]

Well the cost are still the same, you end up still paying 30K, off course the risk with the 5K is much different but at the end the cost are the same.

What I hear from friends who are working actually for RYR that this offer is not too bad. If they hire you they need you, they will not train you and afterwards tell you that you can go home.
If you start now and finish in 6/8 months the world looks allot different, if not. Well then probably you will be flying not much. Its a risk, but the guys who find jobs quickly take risk and don’t sit in home waiting for better times.

It its a offer, maybe in the future there will be a better one, but when?
The more time you wait the more difficult it will be to find a job.

- If anyone could give me some recent tips for the assessment, appreciate it!

[Fixedgear]

they will not train you and afterwards tell you that you can go home.

Actually they will.

And they won't need you after your training, but need you now for your 30K.

[Contact Approach]

they will not train you and afterwards tell you that you can go home.

They will and they have. Just ask the guys who were training as covid hit. You are sorely mistaken if you think otherwise.

[Flying90]

One of my friends works as a LTC for Ryanair and he tells me that the cadets he trained have had the same scheme as this and they all got hired afterwards.

Clearly the line training takes much longer due to COVID but they are flying and as soon as there are more flights they will be scheduled more. But they still receive salary its not that they are done after the training.

Like Banana Joe said, this deal will not be for everybody. If you have the finance’s and you are willing to take a risk, go for it.

[Fixedgear]

I find it kind of unfriendly, to say at least, to receive this answer; especially from a professional account representing an airline.

Ryanairrecruitment seems to have deleted his falsehoods

[Contact Approach]

Flying90,

Its a fixed term 6 month line training contract with Bluesky Aviation, not Ryanair. Its 16K pro rata excluding a small addition per block hour. How are you going to relocate pay rent, fuel food and any loan repayments on that?
When that ends you go back home and thats that.

[Flying90]

Thats not what I am being told. My information comes from pilots from RYR and the cadets are offered a job afterwards.

Like I said, the deal is not for everybody if you don’t have the finance’s the offer is not for you. But if you do have, than with the basic salary you should have just enough to cover or almost cover your living expenses.

[Contact Approach]

I am telling you what the current cadets are being offered.

If you don’t want to listen then by all means go for it. Just don’t complain if it doesn’t work out.

[Fixedgear]

Flying90

Ryanairrecruitment, is that you?

[kendrick47247]

Flying90

Your lack of knowledge and experience of the industry shines out in all of your posts.

You are being given sound advice from others and simply spouting “if you have the money it’s fine”; precisely what Ryanair is wanting to hear.

Being a pilot involves a huge amount of risk based analysis and risk mitigation. What you’re suggesting is an incredibly poor example of both.

Highly experienced LTC in RYR currently on (maximum) 1 flight a week, but sure they need all these fresh new cadets... or just their cash?

Wake up :ugh:

[SimoFly]

I would like to reiterate the advice I gave on my previous post and the one given by many others before me. WAIT, be patient for a couple more years lets see how this thing develops.
As I said, it's true that Ryanair might give you a job at the end of training, but don't think that it will come easily (pay for type 30k + living expenses during the type + living expenses during base training + living expenses during the supernumerary flights + living expenses during unpaid leave + living expenses during line training).
It does not show good judgment if you make a decision impulsively on a rush with this amount of risk.
There will be airlines recruiting, not sure when but they will eventually need pilots. Let's not forget what was happening before the pandemic, the Asian and middle east carriers were recruiting so aggressively and that caused many opportunities here in Europe. Seeing the fleet orders from such airlines could potentially suggest a similar outcome in the future. The last thing to consider is pilots retiring, many pilots have taken the pandemic as an opportunity to accept early retirements and although this does not justify a recruitment campaign for many European airlines at the moment it will be an opportunity when things return to pre-pandemic levels.

[Flying90]

kendrick47247

Your tone and ‘’positive’’ mindset will get you there mate.

Pilots are risk evaluators, I agree. This offer is not great but it's the only offer at this moment for cadets.

Cadets come to this forum to find information regarding the assessment but will find people like yourself who are only complaining and complaining..

Good luck!

[PPRuNeUser0156]

Great, you see that it’s the only offering at the moment. Now go a little further and ask yourself why they decided to open this scheme in the middle of the lowest point in aviation history?

Maybe just maybe it’s because they know a load of naive low hour pilots will be desperate to get into an airline and they can take advantage of that. They currently have zero competition so they can milk it as much as possible.

They come on here and talk a load of rubbish instead of showing everyone why it’s so great.


Also for anybody that thinks ‘why would they get rid of you after all that training?’ SIMPLE they haven’t invested a single penny in you, that’s why they can easily get rid.

[Contact Approach]

Flying90,

I personally don’t care if you wish to go ahead with this scheme. I’m just providing you with the facts based on what those are being offered right now, not two years ago. If you choose not to listen then thats on you.
Those who have recently started have done so accepting the risk and we’ll soon find out if that pays off.

Your general attitude comes across as extremely poor and it won’t do you many favours in any airline i know. Humility goes a long way.

Good luck.

[Bealzebub]

Might be wise not to read too much into a username as well? Particularly when it is a bit too obvious.

[Dashcam]

Completely agree. The one that is apparently stating the facts and trying to give sound advice, is clearly doing anything but. I’ve also noticed contact approaches false T&Cs being shared on LinkedIn and doing the rounds. The one that is also telling people that they won’t make it in the industry with the way they come across on here. Well, getting information completely wrong also doesn’t work well in the industry. hmm I wonder what he’s like with following SOP’s?

[Contact Approach]

Prove me wrong then.

I thought so.....

my false T&C’s actually turn out to be real T&C’s and they make some here look really stupid.

Like I say, just bloody wait!

[Dashcam]

They’re not though are they pal.

‘Training contract with Blue Sky Aviation’ - Incorrect

‘Cadets are paid 16K’ (later changed your mind to 15k) - Incorrect

‘Total earnings at best 6k’ - Incorrect

‘Employment contract once received will be a zero hour contract’ - Incorrect

‘Training contract not issued until day 1’ -Incorrect (it’s issued weeks before commencement date)

and the best one yet: ‘Further employment subject to performance (NO SICK DAYS)’ - Incorrect

I mean that last one is laughable, as if they would penalise you for having to take sick days, especially during a pandemic.

I’d suggest checking your sources again.

[Contact Approach]

You are entirely incorrect. The line training contract is with blue sky aviation and the list continues, I know because one of my mates is doing it right now!

This gen is direct from the horses mouth.

The resistance I’ve had on this thread is alarming considering I present factual Gen and at no cost to myself. The mind boggles.

[Dashcam]

Nope, you’re still wrong.

Id maybe double check those facts with your ‘mate’ before you spout a load of nonsense on here next time.

[PPRuNeUser0156]

So if all of that is incorrect...I presume that you would have the correct information to share?

[Contact Approach]

Dashcam

C’mon then bigboy, prove me wrong.

Its funny how all these clowns say I’m wrong without backing it up with anything but :mad:.

Ive got the contract, I can read what it says.

[Dashcam]

Be my guest buddy.

Copy some word for word statements from the contract to back up your facts, and I’ll see if it agrees with what I actually have here (Not with something I’ve heard off a mate).

Take some time off Pprune perhaps, it will do you some good.

I’ve got better things to do with my time (like talking to a brick wall), than coming on here just to be called a clown.

[Bloated Stomach]

I once visited a brothel and asked the prostitute if she would be happy to pay me so that I can train her up. She can then move on to bigger and better wonderful things. She declined and said "I'm a prostitute, not a Ryanair cadet"

[PPRuNeUser0156]

Dashcam

So to be clear, you have time to say someone else’s claims are all wrong without providing any of the ‘factual’ information to prove it so?

You can just publish what’s written in the contract if ‘you have it there’ as you say then let people make their own mind up as to what’s true and what isn’t.

[Dashcam]

I cannot publish something that doesn’t exist in the contract. For example, no where does it suggest that taking sick days during training would have a negative impact on the likelihood of being offered an employment contract.

If you go back to my previous posts I have corrected him on things like exact pay already.

Im just trying to set the record straight with a few things. Fair enough if you don’t agree with the cadet scheme etc, but please don’t just make stuff up.

[hec7or]

I would imagine that when the major airlines start recruitment, they'll be looking for young pilots who are current and motivated rather than wise old sages who have been sitting it out waiting for the airlines to come begging.

[Contact Approach]

Dashcam


Contract Details

6 month fixed term contract with 3rd party - not Ryanair.
Cost: 30,000 Euros plus assessment fees, security pass, uniform, accom, food etc.
Salary reduced 20% to £16,800 for UK guys. 16,800 Euros for EU guys. Plus £12.83/SBH. Paid onwards from Base Training.
UK guys get UK contracts, EU get EU contracts.
No salary during TR so will have to relocate at their own expense for LT at short notice.
Base allocation likely UK guys UK and EU guys EU. Cadets don’t know their actual allocation until after BT.
After the 6 month contract employment is subject to performance and business demands. Leave expected.
This is a fixed term 6 month training contract only with a 3rd party provider. Not an offer of employment with Ryanair.


Am I wrong Dash? Now if you’d like to add anything useful to this thread then by all means do.

Like i said. Just wait until there is suitable business demand and you should be ok .

[Dashcam]

Yes these are correct, although adding things like ‘leave expected’ is just a matter of opinion, it does not say this. You just can’t help yourself. I admire it in a way.

Let’s just hope things pick up sooner rather than later hey, all the best.

[Contact Approach]

They have been told to expect leave... potentially starting summer 2022. But who actually knows what is going to happen? There are many grey areas which favour the company and not the cadet.

Contrary to popular belief I don't hate Ryanair. I just want people to be aware of all the facts. There has been a race to the bottom for many years and not one of us prosper from it. This scheme merely adds flames to the fire.

I’d prefer to fly with FO’s who can afford to eat and don’t feel under pressure to work when they’re sick. I also prefer to place confidence in a recruitment policy which rewards competency and motivation over those who can afford to pay/gamble and with great risk. It’s pretty simple stuff really.

[Perseas]

Dashcam

Do I get payed during type rating? No
Do I CERTAINLY get a contract with Ryanair after successful completion of line training? No
A friend of mine got hired in Ryanair just a couple of months before covid outbreak. He had already 1500+ hours in jet. He didn't pay a single penny for the type rating. On the contrary, he was paid from the very first moment he started the type rating. Do you see any similarity to the 30 k - no job guarantee - no Ryanair contract - no salary during type rating thing?
And guess what? Ryanair dismissed him during covid outbreak just like many other pilots. Why exactly does Ryanair need cadets now when they have already dismissed experienced pilots?
​​​​​​What are you trying to sell? Stop playing with young pilots hopes and dreams to raise money. We are noone's puppets.

What every sensible person is saying is that we should wait and see when aviation will recover and not rush things. There is no job demand for low hour pilots now. None whatsoever. And no-one knows when that will change.

[PPRuNeUser0156]

Just a little aside, Braathens in Sweden have just started recruiting and seemingly no requirement on minimum hours on their ATR fleet (no cost for TR either I believe)

EASA licence + EU passport and ability to speak a Scandinavian language are required. Signs of recovery are appearing in the industry and Ryanair’s claim of ‘they’re the only ones that will hire low hours in the next 5-7 years’ is already proven to be rubbish.

Another great sign is that I hear the Jet2 apprentices that were all recruited at the back end of 2019/early 2020 have been told that they’re potentially coming back around June/July, this isn’t concrete but good to hear nonetheless.

[The Foss]

Dashcam

Out of curiosity Dashcam, have you signed up for this training programme yourself?

[rotorwills]

Could it be that some airlines are looking at taking on young recruits in order to keep their costs down in order to try and stay in business.

I am not at all convinced that particularly Jet2 retaking on apprentices, as alleged, in fact a couple of Jet2 colleagues are saying they have had little to no communication from the company. They say they are all in the dark.

Given that RyanAir are providing TR for cadets then entrance to 1500 hour jet blokes may be more difficult due to expected influx of raw aircrew. My RyanAir contacts claim that they are to reintroduce command upgrades shortly. There has been a loss of captains in the last 18 months and now that they anticipate flying the Max look to expand their business at the expense of their competitors who are more hamstrung somewhat.

I will be certainly interested in watching the outcomes in the next 12 months or so. Of course this does not help anyone looking for comfort in desire to become an airline pilot.

[The Foss]

I wouldn’t be at all surprised at jet2 bringing in apprentices now as it’s at zero risk to them. In fact the apprentices get paid significantly less for the jobs they do (eg. Flight planning) than the regular workers. If at the end of the term there’s no flying jobs available, the most likely outcome would be an extension of the ‘apprenticeship’.

[Andyswr456]

Hi all, I´m new and I was looking for some infos about the new application for FR during the pandemic because I was thinking about it and I'm looking for some other details.


Contact Approach

Are the contract employment based on performance and business demand. Cadet´s performance 🤔 and business demand (=pandemic evolution)? What if the thing will go better? Will be the cadets hired with a third part agency? Any ideas or infos?

If I'm not wrong, this are identical to the old conditions before the intro of the bond because a friend of mine applied for FR and received a contract with condition similar to this with no job guarantee at the end of the TR, with the upfront payment of the TR and no fix base for about 6 months if I remember but it is up to every single person to accept or deny this "offer".

It not older than a couple of months and anoher one is still open, that 2 german airline was/are looking for pilot and to be honest the conditions were not so different apart from the TR to be paid.
Today ALL the airline which hire, are going to offer contract of six months and all the offer are based on the evolution of the pandemic (its clearly stated in every single application.
Obviously the moment is the worst one and every single airline is trying too survive but we all do not know in six months what is going to happen (we got the vaccine, the people could travel again) and if so all the industry will start to recover maybe continental traffic faster than intercontinental

[Contact Approach]

If you compare the T&Cs and salaries between Europe and the USA you will see a massive difference. Now ask yourself, why is that?

[Czibola]

I have received the training contract and I am required now to pay the training fee but it says 30,000.00€ excluding VAT. Does anyone know what it means? Maybe it’s going to be more than 30 000 later? I have my own company (LTD) and I would like to transfer the money from the company account to get an invoice issued so I could put it into my expenses. Do anyone know how does it work? Thank you for your answers in advance!

[Andyswr456]

Generally if is 30k excluding VAT at the end it should be more than 30k.
In another thread there are this kind of infos regarding the new TR scheme.. "Cost - back then it was in the region of €26-28k however this could be offset against tax, so eventual cost came out in the region of €15-17k. Now it is €30k with no expenses allowed, so the actual cost to the individual has almost doubled"

[m_w]

Czibola

What does your ltd company do? Is it aviation/aircraft operation related? If not, how could you possibly count it as a genuine expense necessary for the operation of the company?

[speed13ird]

Contact Approach

If you are not earning a comparable salary, then I think you may already know the answer.

[kitenation]

As m_w said, if ur company is flying / piloting related u will be able to deduct the TR from your profits. But ONLY in sucha a case, or if u change the profile of the company for such (i.e. u will be able to deduct it from future earnings as 737 pilot, being it in RYR or not). As for VAT, as a rule in the UE, professional training is exempt from VAT, so there should not be any on top. I know UK is not int the UE anymore, but their VAT regulations are pretty much the same as they were (with some exeptions concerning cross border transactions).

[kendrick47247]

Czibola

I’ll start by saying that this forum is definitely not the best place to get concrete tax advice.

With regards to the TR and your limited company: the nature of your business it’s not relevant, as other posters have stated.

[SID PLATE]

The rate of VAT in Ireland is back to 23%, so €30,000 becomes €36,900 ?

[Chief Willy]

I’m amazed Ryanair dont charge even more. They could charge €100k for the rating under the current terms with no promise of a job and still get people showing up.

To my utter amazement people are showing up for day 1 at integrated flight schools a year into this aviation-destroying pandemic. It shows that the market for training isn't just price inelastic, it is demand inelastic too. Kids will pay any amount of money for even the slightest sniff of an instagram moment in a aircraft cockpit.

[iome]

Good news for the new joiners, we had UK wide videoconference yesterday.

It was confirmed the number of cadets needed is between 600/700 and there will be no holding pool as such.

Every cadet will begin line training after type rating with no delay.

See you guys soon.

[Dox]

Isn't there any news for rated captains?

[Banana Joe]

Or rated FO's? :8

[DaveSpart]

I'm sorry Iome, but in what delusional world do you live in that this is good news?
In the video conference management confirmed that current staff WILL have to take part time/ UNpaid leave over autumn/winter because there won't be enough flights going around for current staff/ let alone cadets.

So if by good news you mean: there is a opportunity to pay 30K for a typerating/ linetraining, after which you will be put on unpaid leave till summer than sure, great news.
As always, RYR is not letting a good crisis go to waste and using corona as a final push to get labour cost to a new low in commercial aviation and reintroducing a pay 2 fly scheme.

I truly feel sorry for those in/just out of flight school with delusional ideas about being an airline pilot and the associated lifestyle. You will get a reality check real quick once you sign on with the Irish mafia.

[DaveSpart]

Dox

In house CU's are only planned for late autumn/winter, with a huge backlog of those. So I don't expect RYR to take in DEC's for the next year/2 years. Unless maybe you want to pay them for the pleasure of pressing VNAV like the cadets, I'm sure they are willing to take you in.

Good luck!

[PilotLZ]

You asked why LCCs want cadets despite the great number of unemployed experienced pilots out there? The previous couple of posts contain a big part of the answer. Because it's easy to give your own definition of "normalcy" to someone who doesn't know otherwise. Someone fresh out of flight school can obviously be made to believe that it's OK to make one pay for a TR and then send them on unpaid leave for 6-9 months. Why? Because he/she still hasn't seen anything different from that. Those are the very same people who are shocked to find out that other establishments provide their crews with accommodation at the company's expense when out of base and even with a free shuttle from the hotel to the airport.

[truckflyer]

speed13ird

Well how many SFO's with 6 years experience earn up to $250.000 a year? (in Europe)
Equally how many Captains with 10 years seniority earn between $350.000 - 450.000 a year (in Europe)?

How many SCCM earns up to $100.000 in Europe?

This is flying for US's most famous LoCost airline, SWA.

Europe / UK are shafted because of companies like RYR / Wizz, who represent the bottom pit of the gravy train, trying their best to make sure being airline pilot pays slightly more then packing shelves at Tesco. But be happy and smile as you get shafted.

[FlyingStone]

6 years of experience or 6 years seniority in the company? Because SWA requires 2500h total and 1000h turbine PIC preferred (more or less mandatory, unless they are desperate for pilots). So it will take quite a while to get 1000h PIC, before one even meets the minimum requirement to join. Oh, and add the time and the cost of a 4-year degree to that.

Having a glance here (https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/southwest_airlines), you can see that only 219 of their pilots are aged less than 40 (will be 65 in 2046 or later), so it's not like year 6 pilot is 25 - most likely it's double that age.

I bet if you are in the left seat of a European LCC by 25 on a 6-figure salary and invest the money right, you won't be far off from the average USA pilot - remember, not everyone makes it to the majors there at the age of 23, and a lot of people are stuck in regionals for life.

And at the end, it's all sticks and stones - they've got the right to live and work in the USA, most of us don't, so those jobs aren't accessible anyway.

[truckflyer]

I think those numbers are slightly outdated, I have full copy of the current TC's, which to be honest are pretty amazing (not the forget the 11% profit share bonus) but still in the end it's as you say sticks and stones, as us from Europe can't work there.

But the point I am trying to make is the fact that airlines in Europe / UK, have cheapened the profession, also in Europe before it used to be you needed 1000 - 1500 hours to even get a chance to get a jet job, then along came Ryanair and many others, who saw there was an opportunity to take advantage of eager pilots willing to do anything to get a job, including paying for their own training and working for peanuts. For those who say Europe does not have the possibility for this development, I say that is nonsense. When I first got into aviation that was the standard way, work as instructor for few years, get some hours, join a TP operator and get multi crew experience and 1000 - 1500 hours, and then straight to the big airlines. The ones who destroyed this natural development route was the likes of Ryanair. And Europe has been lucky because during this "trial" there was never a major accident, such as the Colgan Air accident, which lead to major changes in the US.

Add the cost of their training and period of low pay, and I still struggle to see it will end up equal.4 -5 years in the regionals, and you could get into a company like SWA, I am just using them as an example as they are LoCo and I have friends working there, and when comparing work packages, it is amazing to see the difference. Then again SWA has a very strong union, which is big part of their success. My friend who is there, is in his early 40's already with over 10 years in the LHS.

Having a limit of hours to join, example 1500 hours, would ensure protecting the industry and the TC's of the pilot profession, and with mandatory union membership for new joiners. Many might not see the advantage of union membership, specially new young pilots who when join think it's not of much use, until we have a situation like now with this current pandemic. We have seen companies do what they want, because there is a lack of unity within the company among the pilots, so in the end we are own worst enemies.

The previous "carrot" was that you would join and within 5 - 6 years you will be in the LHS, however this pandemic has changed this "structure" - new FO's joining are going to be exploited to the full on zero hour contracts, until the airlines manage to find some kind of sustainable recovery over the next few years. Equally there will be thousands of experienced FO's , in the bottle neck for upgrades. At one point we can reach a level where airlines will not be doing upgrades for several years, but of course they will continue to need "cheap" FO's who are willing to pay for their training and working for below liveable salary.

Before the pandemic there was an outlook of genuine short term shortage, companies where willing to do more to get flight crew, however now it has all be reset to probably the worst time ever in the industry, there will be man pilots not returning to the flight deck for many various reasons, some will have discovered life outside the Cockpit is not that bad, others simply will not be able to find a job and go out of currency. Because in reality, there are no new jobs out there available at the moment, that could not be filled by pilots who lost their livelihood the last 15 months.

[FlyingStone]

1500h requirement in Europe would be practically impossible to achieve, as the GA market is nowhere large enough to sustain this. FAA 1500h rule applies to turboprop airliners (ATR, Dash 8, ...) as well, but even if we would forego this requirement, the number of turboprops in operation have been reducing in the past years and I don't see them coming back with large part of short-distance regional travel being replaced with high-speed train where this is feasible.

I bet there would also be an enormous push from nearly all airlines in Europe against this, particularly the ones that prefer to hire only tabular rasa pilots - when was the last time e.g. Lufthansa mainline hired anybody who didn't go thorugh their ab-initio flight training school?

100% union subscription sounds great, but you can't make it mandatory, according to current labour laws around Europe, as people are free to join a union... or not.

[Polirised89]

Regarding the FI route, all of you saying is good to go and become FI after finishing your CPL. My question to you guys are you happy paying €120k for training and be trained by unexperienced FI? You just can't see the bigger picture which is low training quality and potentially wrong airmanship mentality from the day one which will stay for the rest of the career. I had an option to go the FI route but I questioned my self if I was on the shoes of the trainee would it be fair. Most of the FI's they just fly to gain hours nothing personal just make my hours and who cares, if you choose the FI route you need to be passionate about the teaching and be patient. The moral of the above is don't be selfish. Happy landings.

[rogue leader]

Or don't overpay €120k for training, very little of which goes to the instructor, to get a short-cut to a RHS in a jet as an un-experienced FO - look at the bigger picture :ugh:

[Perseas]

Polirised89

Seriously who pays 120k to become a pilot? I payed around 51k all included, even examiner fees, and If I had made some more thorough research I would have decreased the cost even more. During my training I flew with many instructors. Some experienced more some less. I didn't face any problem with anyone and all were properly trained. Having a pilot job today is something great, airliner or FI, it doesn't matter so long as you pay your rent and log some hours.

[truckflyer]

FlyingStone

Of course the airlines would not want the 1500 hour rule, it would not suit their pockets. But with the current amount of pilots looking for jobs in Europe, it would take many years before there would be need for new "cadets". There is flying to get these hours in Europe or outside Europe, but it demands a lot more effort and you need to be much more motivated to want to do this. It does not just depends on mum/dad's bank anymore, you actually need to want to achieve your goal by much hard work and making sacrifices. No longer depending on over paying the FTO who has an airline agreement, who all take their own little cuts of the massive amount students pay for their training. The integrated ones paying 120K or more, are more or less paying "double" of what it would cost if you did it modular. Everyone I know who did modular when I did it, eventually managed to get a job, but sure it took much more effort and work, but they reached their goals in the end anyway.

It's funny how this route used to work fine before, when it was not expected that your first job had to be on an A320 or 737.
This route would kill of the FTO's charging 120K for their corrupt integrated courses, trying to lock out everyone else doing modular route or their way to reach their career goals.

As for the complaint about "unexperienced FI's, what a load of nonsense, most of those FI's start of training PPL students, the ones doing CPL and IR / ME, would always have much more experience, hence your trainers would have more experience as you take different ratings.

I am going to be blunt, if you in these times go and pay £100K or more for an integrated flight course, you are showing serious lack of judgement. And these FTO's selling these courses should stop selling lies.

You can get all done in your own time for probably around £50K, and you have just as good chance to get a job when you have completed the course as anyone else, specially in a :mad: company like RYR.

[hargreaves99]

I know a new Ryanair FO who did his type rating just before Covid hit (around Jan 2020). He was posted to Poland, did a few flights then was sent home. He has been home ever since, on no pay.

[truckflyer]

This highlights the issue. What Ryanair needs and wants are 2 different things.

Ryanair wants to have hundreds of pilots sitting waiting "ready to work" for the ramp up, but how the Pilots will survive until they really need them, they don't care about. It's great loads of readily trained pilots waiting, specially when they don't need to pay them anything.

[iome]

Why would they care? Why is that Ryanair problem?
Those cadets are lucky to get to fly a 737 over some crappy metroliner

[hargreaves99]

the guy I know has pretty "comfortable" parents who bankrolled his integrated training, he's pretty young, so I guess he can afford to live rent-free and "wait it out".

what a business.

[rotorwills]

Looks like RyanAir does have what they want. They do have pilots ready to work so what do they need then? Yes of course it's great that they don't pay them, RyanAir we know are ruthless. So fortunate that I never worked for them and never will. They provide stepping stones of a sort for a route to become an airline pilot, which many, for their sins, aspire to. No reason to knock them they just run a business, plenty of sharks in the business world.

[truckflyer]

Professional / Profession = a person engaged in a specified activity, as a main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.

Stepping stone? Within European aviation, there is not much left regarding "stepping stones" Even the so called "major airlines" now have their own "low cost" airlines, or they have been redefining their TC's, pulling it downwards towards Ryanair / Wizz, so they can as they say be able to "compete" with the Low Cost operators.

Paying over 30,000 now for a TR, to sit and wait at home that you might get called for a duty within the next 3 years and you are not able to pay your loans or pay to live life seems like a bad deal for me. Then again if "bank of parents" are bank rolling you, you probably have not really grown up and learned about taking personal responsibility yet.

[BoeingLudo737]

Please get your facts right and do a bit of research. You keep talking about random stuff which make no sense. I hope you are not a pilot as I wouldn't like to spend a single minute with you in a cockpit.

[rogue leader]

Which "facts" do you disagree with particularly?

[Chief Willy]

It seems we are getting one step closer to the role of an FO being voluntary, the “reward” being flight hours that get you nearer your command.

Ryanair is no stepping stone, they are a huge success story, it will soon be one of the only major airlines in europe, and the largest at that. Where do you plan on stepping to? I am not aware of a single other “better” airline with even the hint of thinking about recruiting any time over the next few years. In the UK Virgin/BA will not need “off the street” pilot recruits for the best part of this decade. Between them they have over 1,000 pilots in priority return pools, no planned expansion above 2019 levels, and very very few age 65 retirements.

If you join Ryanair expect it to be your career airline. If you are ok with that, and the conditions that go with it then fill your boots. If you are not, then perhaps choose a different career.

[truckflyer]

BoeingLudo737

Not much substance from you is there? You poor sensitive snowflake soul. With your love for Ryanair's business model, you don't need to worry about sharing the cockpit with me. I don't belong to those who believe you should need to lower your expectations that much to follow your Magenta line.

Instead of constant ad hominem response, you should rather put some substance to your defence of this airline you love so much, I suspect you are afraid to reveal to much of your true colours if you did. Ryanair has gone from people believing it's a "stepping stone" to becoming your "Final Destination", and wait and see how many will be able to work until retirement age working full time for such companies. Bon voyage.

[hargreaves99]

Basically the airline industry has turned into what the helicopter industry has been like for years

ie..

a) if you can afford to drop £120,000 on your training, and...
b) you are young (ie under 30), and...
c) you can afford to "wait it out", and...
d) be prepared to move anywhere, and
e) you can put up with anything....

... then you might have a career.

[A320LGW]

The pilots recently 'hired' and doing line training right now whilst current RYR pilots are home on unpaid leave will be on here complaining next year that they are home on unpaid leave, whilst new cadets are being hired and doing line training ..

So goes the circle of life.

[iome]

No Ryanair pilot is home unpaid. Unless you are talking about the various contractors that enjoyed a reduced taxation and overall higher earnings. They are service providers, most of them despise unions and were happy to make more money than the regular guys.

Something along the line "you've made your bed, now lie in it"

[hargreaves99]

Well, the guy I know has been at home for months on "flight pay only". ie no pay

[Banana Joe]

The guy you know is probably a contractor then.

[DaveSpart]

iome

Your continues stream of nonsense really makes me wonder from what angle you are coming here. Iome is some sort of nickname for Eddie Wilson?
Ryanair has not paid a single pilot since Covid unless they where actively flying that month, with the exception of annual leave pay. Crews were entirely dependant on Furlough schemes by the respective country, which in some cases was as low as €600 a month, (1/10th of most skipper salaries) and RYR did not top this up.

So please, stop your spew of complete nonsense, you look like a tool who has no idea whats going on.

[A320LGW]

iome

Sorry to inform you that you are mistaken. I would agree the contractor type tend to be the anti union type. In this case however there are Ryanair employed pilots who are currently making their claim to IALPA and BALPA regarding this whole cadet line training fiasco whilst they are home on unpaid leave.

[iome]

DaveDurban

😁 Someone is feeling the heat.

What nonsense? I replied to a post saying crew sat home unpaid, which is untrue. Only the contractors are home unpaid, but that is in the nature of their employment.
The rest are getting paid, as you rightly said, through furlough, ERTE, cassa integrazione, you name it.
I never said who paid what. Your attack is unnecessary.

Not one duty in May, all C19 and only got £2500. Some countries offer better schemes, I hear Greece is not good at all whilst Italy one of the best although some delays in getting paid due to their employment laws.

EW you say? Paranoia LVL 100

Anyways I hope your day get better.

[Contact Approach]

What a profession! Pay 120K for training, pay another 30k for a job and then get paid absolutely nothing with rights less than those at maccy D's. Short sighted is an understatement!

[Subnet]

Hi ! The questions are from the whole ATPL question bank but without calculations

[viviti]

Hi guys,
Message for whoever did the pre assessment with Ryanair in the last months
Anyone remember the 3 video interview question?

[Subnet]

For me it was :
-What was the hardest part of your flight training ?
-Why Ryanair ?
-What could you bring us ? (Something like that)

[Ld0]

Hi,
I was asked -Why do you wanna work for Ryanair, -Why should we hire you, -What was the hardest part of your training.
Other people got -Tell us about yourself - Tell us something interesting about you - What would you do if a captain doesn't follow SOPs -Why do you wanna be a pilot
Good luck!

[Perseas]

"Why should we hire you?"
They really have a sense of humour :)

[iome]

First batch of cadets 2021 are starting line training next week.
STN FOs will be pissed, more furlough days

[JackTorrance]

I knew they are starting the base training, not the line training..

[BoeingLudo737]

There are people doing line training

[Contact Approach]

iome

I was wondering about this? Whats the general thoughts of the current FOs who aren’t flying due to the LT cadets? Cheaper labour for RYR I guess....

[A320LGW]

They started this week and FOs across all 80+ bases should be pissed, as should anyone who cares about this profession.

[Jetdriver]

Thread continued Here (https://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/641998-ryanair-interviews-sim-assessments-2-a.html)