BA Direct Entry Pilot.

[jetstreamrider]

Can someone inform me as to how soon after day one successful candidates can expect the day two interview? Is it likely to be the very next day or is this unusual?

Thanks!!

[peacekeeper]

Hi,

When I received the invitation all the slots had been booked, around 5 days later new slots arrived and the total time between day 1 and 2 was a little over a month.

Good luck!

[flyboy146]

Anyone who did day 1 last week had anything back?

[FlyingGreen]

Flyboy146-
Was in mid-week and haven't heard anything yet-I imagine it will be early next week.

[EMB-145LR]

I went through stage one a couple of weeks back. Took three working days to hear the good news.

[Iver]

Congrats EMB-145LR! I know you have been trying for awhile. Gives the rest of us who have been trying for awhile hope. Will be interesting to see if you get allotted LH or SH.

[EMB-145LR]

Thanks Iver, unfortunately I'm not at the offer stage quite yet. Just passed day one, in for day two very soon.

[Iver]

Good luck! If BA does not work, at least you could apply to the well-paying majors in the States. I met a retired Delta Captain visiting the UK recently and he said his son made roughly $200K last year as a Delta MD88/90 FO with some overtime flying (green slips). At least you have options. Good luck!

[EMB-145LR]

Thanks Iver. You're absolutely right. The prospects at the majors on this side of the Atlantic are extremely good at the moment. It's very refreshing to see things finally falling in the pilot's court.

[Lead]

Can anyone on the 320 at BA please help me out with what their roster was for say a random month last summer then a random one this winter?

I work for an airline where we have grey days, not days off but days where nothing is rostered. IE a rostered day off is protected, so that if you land after midnight, you cannot have a day off that following day. I assumed this was pretty standard among the non-loco airlines, do BA have protections on their days off?

So when you guys say 5 on 2 off etc, are you at work every day on?

Can anyone kindly post a (say JULY & DEC) roster that meets the target hours in full like this for example?

1 LHR-AGP-LHR-LBA (hotel)
2 LBA-LHR-PRG-LHR
3 LHR-CAG-LHR-AMS (hotel)
4 AMS-LHR-RAK (hotel)
5 RAK-LHR-NCL-LHR
6 OFF
7 OFF
8 OFF
9 LHR-CAI-LHR
10 ...
11 ...
12 blah blah blah
13
14
...


thanks for any help, really appreciate it.

[cessna152]

Hi all,

Out of interest does anyone know:

1. if based at LHR, how many nights per month on average would you expect to spend at the hotel away from your base? I understand it depends on your biddings and seniority, but how would it typically look like for a new joiner on the 320?

2. how many legs per day do you fly as a junior on SH with almost no control on your roster?
how busy can you expect to be? how many hours/y.?

Thanks a lot

[ETflyer]

Just to add to the last two questions:

How long can a new joiner on the a320 expect to wait before going long haul preferably on 777 fleet?

[bex88]

Lead.

This month

5 on 2 off, 6 on 3 off, 6 on 4 off. All working days. 17 days in a shorter month. In the summer it was similar but 19-20 days work. TASS or grey days as you call them evaporated with the shortage of 320 guys.

Generally three day tours made up of 3 sectors (hotel) day 2, 2 sectors (hotel) day 3, 3 sectors (home). Two day tours are 3 sectors day one and two. There are some long two sector day trips which tend to be senior and 4 sector days which tend to be junior.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

How long can a new joiner on the a320 expect to wait before going long haul preferably on 777 fleet?

Engagement freeze is 5 years on type. You will likely have to wait longer to get onto a LH fleet. At the moment the wait is around 6 years but the situation changes regularly. You may even get a move before the 5 year freeze is up. The 777 is becoming the fleet to be on due route network, and hence the preference of senior F/Os moving across from the 747, so it could be a longer wait if that is your chosen posting.

If you join on SH you will work hard - my figures for days off are similar to Bex. I'm working as hard as I did at ezy, if not harder if you count total hours at work. Nightstops vary with seniority. New joiners will be on blind lines, often these will comprise 3-4 day trips working weekends, with a few day trips thrown in. SH is no picnic and gets worse by the year, once EASA FTLs arrive things will get really fun.

All that said, still a good contract, still a decent career to be had. There isn't much better out there, as long as you count patience as a virtue and don't mind wearing a silly hat ;)

[Lead]

Thanks all

[BugSpeed]

Hi All,

Trying to find course mates.

Can anyone with an April start date PM me! Cheers!

[Lead]

The guys on long haul, 777, 747. Are your trips mostly one local night bullets? Or do you get some 2 or 3 night layovers?

Cheers

[wiggy]

Over the years (747,777) single nights are increasingly the norm unless:
Either of the sectors demands two local nights (i.e.long range stuff..and who knows how that will work once EASA is implemented on long haul)
...or there's a grandfather agreement still in place (the almost legendary west coast agreement that covers LAX and SFO but not SEA...and again ditto regarding EASA),
..or if there isn't a daily service - often happens when a new route is introduced.

Worse case I personally experienced a long time back as a junior captain and trip line holder on the 747 was 5 single night stop eastern seaboards in a calendar month....(4 of which were JFK. I actually like New York but even I have my limits.) I'm not suggesting that's the norm or even frequent but I'd suggest junior guys onto the 747 are going to be doing a lot of single nighters unless they can pick up a long range trip in a seeded blind line or are prepared to go places where you don't want to spend more than 24 hours!!

[4468]

Hi wiggy.
I'd suggest junior guys onto the 747 are going to be doing a lot of single nighters unless they can pick up a long range trip in a seeded blind line or are prepared to go places where you don't want to spend more than 24 hours!!
Have you given much thought to how the proposed new Bidline system will affect the allocation of trips? It could see a very significant change to the system we know?

[wiggy]

Hi

TBH I'm still at the 'N' stage of 'NUTA' when it comes to the new Bidline:8

I suspect one of our other regular contributors might hopefully have some educated views on the subject....

[ppilots]

I am lucky enough to have just landed in the holding pool. Does anyone have any idea when the June courses are being released? I believe most the May courses have been allocated with lots of guys going A320.

Does anyone know how far through the '300 pilots required for 2015' we are?

[bex88]

If the rumours are right then I think we are a way off finding the 311 that Crystal says we need. Third hand info but Iberia pilots have said there could be an option for them to join BA with the option of a return to IB. As I said though third hand and unverified source. The crux would be that recruiting 300 is going to take a long time and certainly all year to get online. CAP is at 92hrs in March so we are short

[peacekeeper]

Hi,

Anyone in the sim on March 4th, drop me a PM.


P.s During our lunch chat we were told there were around 150 through the door so far this year.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

once EASA FTLs arrive things will get really fun

Not strictly true, maybe more detail of your concerns required Rudder.
Maybe not for the guys that stack their work to one side, ignore FRM and enjoy nice runs of days off however...Works both ways surely?

[Black Pudding]

I can't believe how stupid some people are by posting dates they are either in the sim or at an interview, day 1 etc etc

[Lead]

Have BA management been offering yearly RPI pay increases? Better than, worse than RPI?

[Boing7117]

Unless you're known in this forum and you're planning on pulling a sickie for your assessment - what is the problem with discussing assessment dates?

[anson harris]

The small number of candidates attending every day mean that you're highly likely to be identifiable. The people who run the assessment programme read this website. Do you want them to know that you are trying to discuss the sim before you meet on the day? That could be viewed as distorting the result I guess. It's up to you but I don't think it's the best idea in the world.

[Boing7117]

If people successful enough to get to the sim stage are looking to try and buddy up beforehand with their prospective sim partner via this forum then that can only be a good thing.

Getting to the sim stage means the job is there for you to lose. A couple of PM's and a meet up prior to the sim might make the difference between getting the job and not.

The worst idea in the world is knowing who your sim partner is on this forum and not doing anything about it.

[wiggy]

I have been known to be wrong :cool: but TBH guys given the workload most are under at BA at the moment I suspect very few of the assessors or those in management are going to be spending time data mining/cross referencing posts on this forum in an attempt to identify individuals....

That said there's nothing wrong with being a little discrete....

[peacekeeper]

Black Pudding

If I could live with that kind of paranoia, maybe I could work in Doha too. Don't take life so seriously, a couple of people meeting up pre sim to get to know each other and have chat about pitch and power settings is at worst proactive. If I didn't get a job because of that I'd have to start wondering why I applied in the first place.

Good luck with it all.

[Black Pudding]

Peacekeeper

You said "If I could live with that kind of paranoia, maybe I could work in Doha too"

Are you trying to say I am paranoid ? How would you know, have we met or are you just assuming this based on where my pprune says my location is. And if I do live in Doha, what has living here got to do with being paranoid. You not being able to live in Doha is your problem, not mine.

"Don't take life seriously" Really. People on this thread have applied for a job, is this not a serious thing to some people.

The point I am trying to make is this. Companies do spend time trying to find information about future employees and this will include using the internet, facebook, pprune and linkedin. I have 2 friends who both attended interviews in the last 3 years who were asked if they were such a person on pprune. Both had been rumbled. All it takes is for a company to spend 20 minutes looking at all your post on here and they will make a second guess on the type of person you are. Positive or negative. Posting what dates you have a sim or selection does nothing but risk a company making a judgment on you before they have even met you. It's like putting a photo on a CV. You are giving the selection team nothing but a face and this does nothing but let them make a judgment on you even before they have met you. As for being prepared for a sim. Best thing to do is make sure you yourself are prepared. As for your sim buddy, that's his problem, you just make sure you are prepared. In this world, you will fly with knob heads who have poor CRM or whose ability is poor. Having a poor sim partner may give you the opportunity to be able to show you can cope with either. Again, posting dates you have your sim I think will do more harm than good.


Good luck.

[kirungi1]

As for your sim buddy, that's his problem,

..could be her problem too!

[peacekeeper]

Black Pudding,

I think your paranoid purely because you worry about things like that. I agree that one has to be careful about social media, that's a factor in everyday life now. But it's something to be aware of with every posting on the internet, if your comfortable with the image and views you portray openly, then what is there to worry about? Believe me, the group interview and personal interview will expose your personality anyway, good or bad.

Of course a bit of caution is prudent, but so is doing everything you can to prepare and I personally believe that being more relaxed before a high pressure situation gives you spare capacity. I'm more relaxed when I know the people I have to work with and I have a vested interest that they succeed as well.

Regarding Doha, having flown with colleagues who were not allowed to have their passports for the duration of their 3 months notice period despite not having their LPC renewed, the impression they gave was that you had to be very careful about what you think and say. One was disciplined for taking his crew water from one aircraft to another during a swap, effectively saving the company a bottle of water. Thankfully, British Airways is a bit more sensible than that!

Please read my comment of 'Don't take life too seriously' and amend to, 'Relax, no-one is trying to catch you out, be yourself, peace and love'

[wiggy]

I think this needs to be kept in proportion.

We know that the BA "manager, recruiting", posted here within the last year.

We know (well some of us do) that the the company and/or some at BALPA were unhappy with the level of detail being posted here with respect to recruiting requirements/fleet plans quite recently but that didn't result in a "witch hunt" and a search for names, just a "please don't do it" passed on via the BALPA forum.

Given the above it would be sensible to assume when posting that "someone" in the office might cast an occasional eye over this thread.

If you post your sim time and date somebody in BA recruitment might notice but on the other hand I doubt very very much anyone at BA is going to be asking pprune for details of PMs ...just be sensible.

[Lead]

Can anyone enlighten me as to what the pilot only share scheme is about? Are they bought pretax? Buy x get y free?

Thanks.

[Juan Tugoh]

PSOP is dead. It was supposed to be a share scheme but BA forgot to ask IAG if it would be okay to have such a scheme, IAG did not allow it so PSOP became a monetary reward paid at the same value as the shares. It is not an ongoing thing and is extremely unlikely to be repeated. If you are not already a BA pilot PSOP is irrelevant.

[wiggy]

Juan

I was going to make similar comment about that scheme but thought better of it...I'm not sure I could have been as polite and diplomatic as you were.

Well done..:ok:

[GS-Alpha]

I think the previously agreed final year of the PSOP was 2014 so theoretically, we should get another 'virtual' share option following the results on Friday. Does anyone know what the virtual share price was last year?

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Virtual shareprice - bit like the virtual weekends off that magically change when pilots get forced assigned work over them instead!

[Lead]

Thats interesting, my phone offer contained something along the line of entry into 'pilot only share scheme'.

Is the pension based on 95% of long haul salary on PP24?

I've seen a couple of rosters of very junior guys on the 320, some of the (usually domestic) duties seem pretty repetitive and tiresome. Can anyone nearer the top share their roster for any given month? Where are the best night stops on the 320 etc.

Finally, in terms of swapping. If you had 4 single day trips, followed by a few days off, is it easy to swap out the day trips for a four or five day trip etc to aid commuting?

Similarly, if you have banked hours, can you just ping a duty from your roster into the ether? IE you have 10 hours banked, and want to get rid of an AMS for example. can you just.... get rid of it?

[wiggy]

I'm no expert on shorthaul but I'll give it a go:

If you had 4 single day trips, followed by a few days off, is it easy to swap out the day trips for a four or five day trip etc to aid commuting?

A shorthauler should be able to tell you for certain - Sounds to me like dropping a load of day trips to pick up a unallocated single trip from the company pot ( using the computer system, eMaestro) might be a challenge..I guess you might perhaps get more luck swopping directly with an individual....

Similarly, if you have banked hours, can you just ping a duty from your roster into the either? IE you have 10 hours banked, and want to get rid of an AMS for example. can you just.... get rid of it?


That's a very definite "that depends" :hmm:. You're trying to drop work back into the pot and not picking anything else up in return. The company really isn't keen on having "uncovered" work. If there's already "x" amount of unallocated trips in the pot on the days involved (where "x" is a monthly changing variable defined by BA, often 1), and/or the days involved are one's where pilots might not be keen to pick up the work you want to drop (e.g. bank holidays, some :rolleyes:... weekends) then you might not be able to drop the work, regardless of your banked hours....the computer or someone in the office will simply say "no".


I suspect that's as clear as mud and in any event the rules on this are changing from month to month at the moment, dependent on pilot numbers and the whim of certain managers, but HT is of some H.

[clearofconflict]

Wiggy has it about right,

Swapping back into emaestro with that amount of work would be an impressive feat. Most guys use iBid or similar to contact each other and do peer to peer swaps so to speak. Having said that the FTL's still govern what can go on.

With bank, certain days will be embargoed if there is already work in the pot so its not as easy as it seems.

Fundamentally, the more senior you are the better chance you have of making your life fit. Simples.

[bex88]

Short haul FO, not at the bottom but no way near the top either.

Re dropping trips: if there is more than one trip uncovered you cannot bank withdrawl or swap. If you have a trip covering 19/20 and you want to drop it you can't if there is any more than one uncovered trip reporting or operating on or over the 19/20th. Same applies for trip trades. If you are on a blind line you can trade but it must be for a higher credit trip (more work). I have had hours in the bank for nearly a year and have not found anything that is worth using them for. Recently I tried to drop a Sunday day trip but was not allowed. There was no uncovered work but ops declared it a closed day.

Best night stops: Budapest (not min rest one) Vienna (same applies) Glasgow :} Edinburgh, Newcastle during freshers week :ok:. Lay overs in Istanbul, Lisbon etc. Any mid haul routes are quite senior as are high credit day trips and Irish stuff. The less popular stuff is things like Paris, Brussels, Frankfurt, Düsseldorf, Nice (but only in the winter) Scandinavian stuff but again in the winter. Usually you get a mix even at the bottom but some trips get hoovered up by senior bidders. I have never had an Istanbul or a Cairo. Rarely get any mid haul trips, unless a Turkish airlines crew gets kidnapped then I get loads of Beiruts all of a sudden.

If you happy with your current deal then why move? It will be frustrating and hard here to begin with but it does get better in time.

[CAT C]

Just a check on the status of the interview lately - I know in the past it's all been competency based.

Anyone that's attended recently confirm the format is the same? Is it still all "tell us about a time" or are there any technical questions thrown in these days?:ok:

[twice round the hold]

Did the sim early part of this week. The wait is killing me.

Just wondering if anyone has been successful if there were cracks in the CRM? I had quite a vocal sim partner who tried to take control of a lot of the exercise, even when I was PF. He was quite hard to contain and did quite a lot of point scoring (calling 'altitude' when I was 20ft high etc). I did my best to stay composed and manage the operation, but at times it was quite hard. He would interrupt my briefings etc. Managed to get most of my NOTECHS in (wish I'd known that BA like TDODAR though!). Gave consideration to crew, passengers, ops and commercial considerations etc. but we just didn't gel too well as a team, it often felt like I was single pilot and I found my partner quite overbearing (although I don't think I let on).

Really worrying that it will be the undoing of me. Flew ok, although I had to go around due to a slightly rushed approach that I didn't feel comfortable with. I think I supported him well when he was PF, offered help when needed etc. I just came away feeling quite disappointed that we hadn't worked better together as a team.

Currently flying up norf' and would love to return South.

[ask26]

"I had to go around due to a slightly rushed approach that I didn't feel comfortable with."

Possibly the thing that might get you the job - a big thing at the moment rigidly following Stable Approach Criteria, sounds like the right call in that case. Good luck.

[Juan Tugoh]

The decision to go-around rather than continue with a rushed approach will do you no harm at all, the opposite in fact. Don't worry about the point scoring oppo, the assessors know the type well and don't like it. The last thing you want on the flight deck is a competition. How you coped with it will be key. Good luck!

[Leecolette]

I have an application in for the DEP scheme but have recently had 12 months away from flying due to having a baby so am wondering what impact that might have on my application or if there are any particular recency requirements?

Grateful for any insights.

[SinBin]

4 years ago, I went around on my sim detail too, just coming up to my 4 year interview at BA for SFO now! At the end of my detail, the trainer, said it was a good decision to go around. Point scoring is not on the list of NOTECHs which BA looks for! From the sound of it, you might be ok.....

[massiveheed]

On my sim detail 4 years ago neither my partner or myself managed a landing. I lost the localiser he (we ) forgot to get the weather and saw nothing at mda. Two go arounds both nearing our 4 year anniversary at Ba .

[EMB-145LR]

Don't worry, I'm waiting to hear too. Did the sim last week and I think my wife is ready to kill me as I keep over analysing every mistake and decision. I don't think they're looking for perfection, I went around on my approach too, and my sim partner and I obviously came from very different operations. He was very talkative and verbalised everything, where as at my company we tend to discuss a decision and then make it without lots and lots of reviewing and verbalising every rudder deflection or roll input. It's just a case of different cultures and SOPs. I'm sure BA take that into account. We got along reasonably and didn't scream at each other and stayed safe.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as you did what you normally do and were yourself, then you've presented yourself with integrity and BA will decide whether you fit their mould. It's their train set after all.

I'm currently flying in the US, and we do somethings very differently, and I know I made at least one silly mistake because of that. But I took ownership of it as soon as I realised I was wrong.

I think they just want to see the real you in the sim to see if you're trainable, humble and not a total berk! Don't beat yourself up about it, I think most people do better than they think.

I'm 50/50 as to whether I did enough. Good luck!

[VJW]

Good luck to the two lads waiting to hear back, sounds like you both did ok.

[BugSpeed]

To all who have recently been through / are still going through the hoops:

The waiting is the worst bit, followed in second place by the self-induced pressure. You need to master both.

It is human nature to over analyse and focus on the bad however, you will find out. If it's a yes - brilliant; if not then at least the waiting is over and you can find the resolve to hopefully apply again.

Speaking from personal experience of X successful selections - I felt the pressure this time around like never before. It took all my NOTECH skills to master the nerves from Day 1 to Day 3.

Just keep calm and try not to bite too many finger nails off.

[Harry palmer]

How many more places are left to fill? Any thoughts about when the next opening will be? Round Two!

[anson harris]

There are about 300 spaces to fill. They have filled roughly a quarter of that.

[Harry palmer]

Would have thought more slots were filled by now as we were told 100 of the 312 required were filled last year. Although are they having difficulty filling slots now, not enough people getting through selection. I'm up for a recall if required ; ) wishful thinking!

[EMB-145LR]

On Day Two in mid February, we were told they had hired about half of the intake for 2015 so far. All hiring now seems to be on to the Airbus fleet with DEPs mainly going to LHR and FPPs going to LGW.

[anson harris]

That was from the person that knows, so...

[Toast30]

With so many vacancies still to fill is it likely that selection may open again soon?

[Juan Tugoh]

Any news yet Twice Around?

[twice round the hold]

No news yet!

BTW we were told by LC that about 150 of the 311 had been hired so far at the lunch on my day two.

[anson harris]

By the way I'm talking about actual starts. About 1/4 of the planned number of pilots have started at BA.

[Harry palmer]

Cheers AH all clearer on the numbers front.

[Harry palmer]

Are people still getting called for day one assessments. Very much hope I get another shot for next year.

All the best to those who got through and still with a shot.

[peacekeeper]

Hi,

Has anyone recently been offered a course after being put in the hold pool? If so, how long was the wait and any surprises on the fleet?

[EMB-145LR]

Anyone still waiting to hear the result of their sim from last week? It's been just over a week for me now and my wife is going to leave me if I carry on being such an unbearable git for much longer!! Unfortunately my sim partner got bad news yesterday, so I'm a little on edge.

[twice round the hold]

I got the no yesterday EMB, as did a couple of others I've been in touch with. Perhaps no news is good news for you? Fingers crossed for you pal.

[Flight714]

It's been asked before but anyone a little more "in the loop" ;) with BA recruitment than the rest of us have any idea when they might open up for fresh DEP applications? Ta muchly.

[VJW]

twice around the hold, sorry to hear your news. I can never get past the verbal reasoning, so keep your chin up. I'm interested to hear if your sim partner passed?!

[Harry palmer]

Ditto after a similar day out!

[Juan Tugoh]

Twice Round, sorry to hear you didn"t get in.

[EMB-145LR]

Still waiting to hear at this end. It's been nearly two weeks now. I'm sure they have their reasons and it's just a case of being patient.

Has anyone from this round of recruitment waited this long after the sim? Was the answer negative or positive? This is my dream job, so I'm sure it will be worth the wait if I get it. Everyone I know of from my week has heard back either way now, I even know of a couple of guys who have heard from last week.

[Harry palmer]

Might be worth an email to waterside mate, does seem longer than average for an answer.

[Permafrost_ATPL]

Anybody managed to get sim feedback after the sim after a "No"? I emailed the address included in the Unfortunately email, requesting a feedback chat over the phone. Never got a reply.

So here we are. Five years later, all the way to the sim check again, thought it went quite well, and none the wiser. Hey-ho, I still sit in the LHS of 320 flying around Europe. I suppose it must me less challenging than sitting in the RHS of a 320 flying around Europe :E

[EMB-145LR]

Sorry, just to clarify Permafrost_ATPL, are you still waiting to hear the result of your recent sim, or are you waiting for feedback? When were you in for the final stage?

[Harry palmer]

Still no joy EMB, give them a shout.

[EMB-145LR]

I'm not going to bug them. On the day they said it could take up to two weeks. I'm sure they have their reasons. The wait is painful though.

[Harry palmer]

I bet, everyone I know so far hasn't waited more than 5 days either way so wonder why there's a big wait for you and as far is I've heard each sim pair has heard their result at the same time.

[EMB-145LR]

It's definitely taking a lot longer for me than anyone else I know that's been through the process recently, but like I said, I'm sure they have their reasons. Perhaps my application is a little more complex with me living and working outside of the EU?

[Permafrost_ATPL]

I did get the "No thank you" from the sim. But in that email it said please get in touch to receive feedback. So I did get in touch. And got not feedback.

[VJW]

Permafrost_ATPL pick up the phone mate.

Same advice for EMB too, I don't think calling will alter their decision mate. They are human (I think, have yet to get to day two and actually interact with anything other then a joystick and some verbal tests :) ), could easily have thought they've emailed you and haven't. Sounds silly but a lad I know who passed recently, with relatively low hours got an email saying he's going on the B747, only to be called 5 mins later and told sorry that email was for someone else keep reading the 320 manuals..

[Wirbelsturm]

Guys,

It probably won't help your anticipation but just to throw some light onto the process and alleviate the conceived pressure on the recruitment team!

BA still has, at it's core, the mentality and structure of a nationalised industry. There are some progressive departments, primarily being those directly facing the customer, but many operate in their own 'bubble' and communicate completed tasks only to those department dependent upon them.

A classic example is that of 'commercial' deciding what aircraft, routes, loads etc. hence the required flying programme with it's associated hull numbers and thus crewing numbers and then dropping it onto the laps of Flight Ops and Training.

Once that has been done budgets and targets are set and the whole training programme grinds into action and recruitment levels and aircraft courses are decided. Unfortunately, constantly, the requirements generated by commercial are affected by various 'external and internal' influences which have a trickle down affect on training and recruitment leading to a change in annual targets and the ability to adequately crew specific hull types.

So, whilst I am sure you are all waiting with baited breath for your answers the simple fact is that recruiting may well be adjusting their position based on a new edict from above and having to rework their plans to take differently qualified pilots (ZFT to LH?) instead of their initial remit of crewing to SH. I'm sure that doesn't help those who might otherwise have got a place on SH when the push to DEP LH came in but just take it as not being a reflection of your ability 'per se' but more a reflection of the fluid, ever changing requirements of the company.

Hope that helps.

[kirungi1]

wirbelsturm, definitely agree with your account.

[Harry palmer]

Are people still getting invited to day one? Is the 2015 recruitment comming to a close now with more recruitment for 2016 up and coming from a fresh campaign which I very much hope is the case.

[EMB-145LR]

Thanks for the insight wirbelstrum. Of those I know that have received the good news in the last two weeks, all of them have gone into the hold pool as opposed to being given course dates. None of those I know that have got the call have had heavy time, in fact most are Flybe chaps coming from the EJet or Q400.

It's certainly never boring at BA! I'll continue trying to be patient! :)

[Harry palmer]

Is anyone else in a similar position as EMB 145? See there guys still in the process at day 2 and sim?

[EMB-145LR]

I know of one person who recently passed stage two and who's currently waiting for a sim slot for stage three.

I believe the training department is very busy and quite backed up at the moment.

[eckhard]

Just to keep some info trickling in:

I heard directly from a very reliable source that BA will recruit just over 300 this year and around 200 per year for the foreseeable future. The source then added that, of course, that was based on the current plan, which was subject to change!

So, if your heart is set on BA and you are not successful this time, keep trying! They need you!

[Harry palmer]

I very much hope that's the case.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

The plan is always, ahem, "fluid" but I think there is cause for optimism if you want to join BA in the next few years.

There are a number of factors combining that will quite likely result in a fair number of senior folk decide to retire a bit earlier than planned or at least go part time. The (slow) demise of the 747 fleet and senior guys who don't wish to do another conversion course, the new dawn of FTL changes and rostering practices, changes to pension laws etc all seem to be having an effect. Retirements of the chaps reaching 65 start again in 2016 (but not in any great number until we get into the next decade). Finally there is some expansion with SH slots slowly being changed into LH with the resultant increase in pilot numbers that requires.

So it is quite possible the next few years will see a constant demand of approx 200 pilots per annum. Good news for anyone who wants to join. And for those who didn't quite get in, lots of space in here if you fancy another go in 6-12 months. There are plenty of BA pilots who had more than one go at selection roulette!

And good luck to all those waiting, fingers crossed for good news :ok:

[wiggy]

B.M.R.R....

I think that's a pretty fair assessment.

You rightly mention "the new dawn of FTL changes and rostering practices".....IMHO that new dawn is a two edged sword for many prospective DEPs. Anyone planning on joining needs to be aware that the consequences of changes to the rostering system "Formerly Known as Bidline" :rolleyes: are only just making themselves apparent to the end users....It's a long and complicated story but Bidline has changed radically from the animal it was even a year back and even the most senior are now finding that it's increasingly difficult to protect time off/lifestyle...I'd certainly caution taking advice about BA rosters from anyone who used to work for BA, even if they left the company relatively recently.

The good news for prospective joiners is that judging by conversations I've had downroute or at LHR quite a few senior'ish pilots are planning on taking part time or leaving if they are financially in a position to do so. The bad news is that many full time short haulers seem to be struggling to maintain any sort of "quality" home life - the introduction of "full EASA" across the board later this year is just going to add to the fun and games across all fleets....

Certainly many colleagues in my peer group ( mostly those who joined in the late 80's/early 90's as DEPs) are now planning on retiring in the next year or two, even those who are already on part time contracts. I think what's going to happen overall is that some of the extremely senior will hang on for the glory in being on page one of a Status list, the juniors will hang on in the hope of being elevated into a more comfortable position/fleet replacing the significant amount of "attrition" that may happen in the main from the middle order seniority in Long Haul........

( P.S. I promise to stop editing now..)

[JRK110]

wiggy, while we all agree that t&cs are on the slide, even if bidline isn't what it was, having even a little influence over rostering is still more than that enjoyed by those of us here in loco-land (nil). :}

[NigelOnDraft]

having even a little influence over rostering is still more than that enjoyed by those of us here in loco-land (nil). Are many in LoCo land not on fixed roster patterns e.g. 5-2-5-3 or whatever?

[wiggy]

having even a little influence over rostering is still more than that enjoyed by those of us here in loco-land (nil)

Fair enough. But just for info we are now seeing instances of people having work assigned (i.e. added) to their rosters prior to final publication, despite them them already successfully bid to work over the monthly target (CAP). In one extreme case on the 744 last month an individual was assigned extra work into a gap on his line despite having already bid to achieve almost 100 hours, and similar has happened on the 380 this month. It is also possible, now, for the company to remove work from your line and then add trip(s) to improve your efficiency. This was possibly a price worth paying to avoid being drafted at the aircraft side on arrival for a duty the next day but it's still a major, major change, hence my warning about not taking too much notice of those now outside BA who still paint a rosy picture of Bidline. Fundamentally now, outside of leave, it's pretty much impossible for an individual to protect or predict specific days off in a month (we don't have a fixed pattern of days on/days off).

Just to be clear I'm not looking for sympathy (I know where to find that in the dictionary, thanks ) and I accept that's probably what you guys are used to in the LoCos, especially if you don't work to a fixed pattern, I'm just pointing we are all headed for being in the same boat.....don't join BA because of the rostering system...some who can are thinking of leaving because of it.

[Juan Tugoh]

The Bidline people are used to is now dead. As wiggy has said the effects of this are still being discovered but it is a game changer. Life at BA is changing significantly, and not for the better.

Still, it seems to suit certain commuters from Canada.

[bex88]

:eek: Canada now who could that be? :}

The reality is this for new guys on SH. Blind lines. Working to CAP or above with most if not all weekends on. 5-6 on followed by 2 off and repeat. About 9-10 days off per month. I am spending 90+hrs each week away from home in March.

The good points.........I don't have to worry to much about job security but we are all aware we need to keep working hard to protect this. The salary is competitive and when I have needed time off for sickness or dependency the company has always been good to me. There are many opportunities but patience is a virtue.

I am happy enough but if I won the euro millions I would probably ask for the 50% option......actually not probably but definitely. Given my choices again I may have taken up the big orange offer but all in all its not something you can turn your nose up at.

[anson harris]

Most people that won the euro millions, including almost every pilot I know, would retire immediately. The fact that you had to think about whether you would go 50% or not says quite a lot about BA.

[bex88]

What can I say. I enjoy take off and landing..........you have to have a break from the wife and kids at some point......maybe the 33% option would work.

[Chief Willy]

Another option is to try and get an LGW base on SH. No "bidline" to deal with (they use Carmen at Gatwick) and you also get trump days for those all important weekends off, I am not sure how many though, but this can be a lifesaver for junior bods there.

A lot fewer nightstops, but this should mean being in your own bed most nights.

Some other slight differences from LHR in how leave works, as a general rule I think it is easier to take all your leave at LGW as you don't have to worry about making "cap" and thereby having to work wrap days. In the winter at LGW apparently it is easy to get extra days off attached to either side of leave but expect to be worked hard during the rest of the month. Days at work are more efficient with no time wasted in airside cafes (lots of this at LHR... very boring) waiting for your next sector, and turn arounds are short. Reserve blocks at LGW are only 4 or 6 days (28 days at LHR), but this does mean you'll probably do a reserve stint in most months.

I'll caveat that with saying I am not sure if they will offer LGW bases to new joiners as I think DEPs are only being offered LHR, but you can try and bid to move to LGW in the first annual fleet bid (again, no guarantee you'll be allowed to move across).

[wiggy]

Chief W

"....get an LGW base on SH. No "bidline" to deal with (they use Carmen at Gatwick) and you also get trump days for those all important weekends off,

I think the fact that you've brought LGW and Carmen up as an option speaks volumes about what has happened to the "industry leading roster bidding system" recently..

(...euromillions win...me? Out of the door in an instant, much to the relief of many :E )

[Lead]

If you go over a certain amount of credit hours, say 80 or something, do you get paid the extra as overtime?

So a 100 hour roster would be worth good money at least?

[LuckOfTheDraw]

Hi guys. Some interesting info here.

Can anyone tell me what the B747 roster and lifestyle is like at the moment?

I'll be starting soon so would like to have an idea what to expect.

Thanks for any input, and good luck to you who are still going through the selection process.

[ReallyAnnoyed]

Just as a little supply of information regarding low cost rostering. Here in orange land, I have not once had a day off changed and the roster for existing bases is still 5 earlies, 3 days off, 5 lates, 4 days off for 17 weeks followed by 4 weeks of random roster with minium 10 days off (have been given 12 the last 4 reserve periods). All new bases and FOs (fixed pattern available in most bases after 1 year as SFO) are random roster, but as far as I am aware, rostering can not touch your days off once they are rostered.


I have flown into a day off maybe a handful of times in just under a decade. Never by more than half an hour.


This is not meant as a pissing contest, but there seems to be some confusion as to how rostering is in the low cost world.

[wiggy]

ReallyAnnoyed

Thanks for the input..

as far as I am aware, rostering can not touch your days off once they are rostered.

That effectively was the intention behind the recent changes to Bidline...once your roster is finally published, for good or bad, the company cannot make any further changes (obviously excluding the likes of down route delays).

As you may have sensed from some comments here there are some who feel too much was thrown under the bus in order to achieve that aim :oh:.

[EMB-145LR]

Just wanted to say thanks for all of the encouragement and advice from many people on these boards. I joined the pool this morning. Very excited. Keep the faith to those of you waiting to hear.

[Harry palmer]

Well done fella, hope I have better luck next time! Still
Gutted.

[kirungi1]

EMB-145LR; Well done and good luck :ok:

[flite idol]

Congrats EMB. Good for you and well done.

[Lead]

Is anyone able to answer my question above re overtime/generally high hours?

[Juan Tugoh]

Lead, the answer is no

The overtime system at BA is complex, as not all hours are paid off, some go into the bank. Others are paid off but a lot depends on when the extra work is picked up and how. The simplistic scenario you ask about does not apply.

[Lead]

Thanks Juan

[Widebdy]

Are we at the latter end of the current recruitment or is there still day one assessments going on?

[SinBin]

311 this year, similar number required next year, this from a senior manager to me last week!

[Superpilot]

Great news but I'm a little dumbfounded. How does an airline go from hiring a trickle of pilots each year to over 300 without expansion?

[wiggy]

No need to be dumbfounded, it's the BA way.

How does an airline go from hiring a trickle of pilots each year to over 300 without expansion?

Quite easily. "They" have wanted to run the op with minimum recruitment for a long time...think bonuses....

However:

1. There are now genuine signs of a forthcoming retirement bulge....:ok:

2. IMHO "they" were critically under manned last year, which "they" just got away with, by the skin of "their" teeth, by driving through changes to the rostering system. Having used that remedy once "they" can't do it again....

As SinBin has said, at last management are now publicly saying they need more pilots.

In the meantime it's going to be an interesting few months with an increasing number of folks already hitting the 900 hour bell early in the summer season.

[binsleepen]

Hi Superpilot,

BA are expanding, The slots aquired from BMI are slowly being turned into longhaul routes which require more pilots than short haul routes. Also next year is the start of retirements again, altough only a few expected more people are going part time.

[EMB-145LR]

Do BA tend to run type rating courses for new hires over the summer, or do they take a break to ensure that it's all hands on deck for late July/all of August as some other airlines are known to? If so, when do new hire courses tend to restart? Hoping to get plucked out of the pool soon!

[Harry palmer]

Very much hope next years requirements are as quoted or a similar figure. After falling at the last hurdle in the 74 sim I very much would like another crack, hopefully with a better outcome. Any ideas when a new campaign will open?

[Threethirty]

I see recruitment has opened again...

[TryHarder]

Great news - I see that most of the positions are A320 SH from Gatwick or Heathrow...

Could anyone tell me if those are likely to be run as single-day flights, or would it be more of a 4-5 day 'tour' of short haul sectors?

Thanks

[Dozza2k]

As far as I know, at the moment LGW base for 320 has no nightstops

LHR, is a mix of day trips and 2/3/4/5 day tours.

[EMB-145LR]

While we're talking about nightstops, how easy is it for a junior LHR FO to get mainly day trips on the A320 fleet? If living within an hour of LHR, what sort of trips would provide the best quality of life for a new joiner with a young family?

[pollypilot]

Just heard from a friend of mine that BA are recruiting Direct Entry Pilots again :)


Check out their careers website for details.


Getting my application ready now.....

[SinBin]

With the levels of recruitment on at the moment, you won't stay junior for very long, and day trips are easy to come by, only had 1 blindline in my time at BA. They're not the most popular trips as they usually carry low credit (ie you have to work more days to meet CAP) the higher credit day trips are usually hoovered up by more senior bods! For instance there are a few charters this summer that carry 9hr+ credit for one day's work, a typical GVA and back carries 4hr30 credit, so you get my drift. The other thing to remember is swapping is very easy at BA, all done online mutually between pilots on the emaestro system.

[Harry palmer]

Still inside the 12 month rule : ( ! How come its opened again so soon with guys still being assess from last years applications? Will it open again towards the end if the year?

[EMB-145LR]

To be fair to BA, it's been nearly six months since they closed the last window. If they need more bodies to fill positions before the end of the year, then why not open the window again? Many people who weren't in a position to apply back in October 2014 may well now be able to. I'm sure your chance will come again HP.

[SkyRocket10]

Training capacity is a huge issue this year. I believe BA have re-opened in the hope of attracting more rated applicants and thus reduce the training footprint. We need guys on line this summer, not six months, which is effectively how long it will take for a non rated applicant accepting an offer to release to line.

[BASHLH]

We had a letter from the Chief Pilots today, obviously I can't post it here but there was a section dedicated to growth & recruitment. It confirmed 311 new pilots this year & SIMILAR NUMBERS NEXT YEAR REQUIRED. So good news for those of you wishing to apply/re-apply..... There will be plenty of opportunities for all :ok:

I hope this brings a ray of light to a few! Good luck to those that are in the process or about to apply in this Newly opened round.

[wiggy]

BASHLH

We had a letter from the Chief Pilots today, obviously I can't post it here ....

Oh go on, you know you want to.

As well as the sunny bit you mention about recruiting there were the cuddly feely bits about never being late (regardless of the state of the ground infrastructure and how long it takes to park your car - I think the record for that is over an hour) and hints/concerns over sickness levels /fatigue (despite the state of the Short Haul flying program) :E, I think the rest was mostly along the lines of "morale", "leave" and "cancelling until"..or something similar.

Anyhow joking aside :E it is going to be an interesting summer for short haul, from what I've heard all the DEPS were needed on line yesterday so I suspect the recruiting will continue full speed ahead for quite a while.

P.S. In all seriousness you're right...don't post that letter.

[JaxofMarlow]

Then maybe time they reviewed their selection procedure.

Instead of rejecting pilots with glowing records from other top rated UK and overseas airlines at stage one.

There were reports on another thread of a couple selected from UK LOCO who didn't cut the mustard when training started.

[JaxofMarlow]

rossjmc. Your post about me makes no sense. Gloat ! Why would I gloat. Still at the LoCo. And no, it is not rubbish. Officially utilising a "right to return".

And if you think the computer tests indicate anything significant and are not biased to those closer to their "education days employed playing computer games" instead of those having to devote their time working and bringing up children then you are really silly.

And, as I assume (but might be wrong) you have been selected, then who is it gloating by posting on here ?

[EMB-145LR]

Having just gone through the process I found it to be incredibly fair and balanced. There are no secrets to it, do your homework, prepare comprehensively and you'll make it through each stage. BA were nothing but extremely fair, friendly and efficient the whole way through. I've never been through such a well balanced selection, despite working for three previous airlines.

All the information you need to pass is out there. That coupled together with well focused preparation and a good attitude will get you through.

In the last 24 hours I've had two people send me private messages asking me to send them a copy of my application so that they can see what they need to put on their applications and in their essay questions to 'tick the boxes'. Frankly I think that attitude is appalling. I put an awful lot of time and energy into my application, thinking of the qualities I have to offer BA and what they can offer me in return. If you have to ask to copy another persons application then you may as well not bother applying. It's lazy, deceitful and shows no real initiative or drive. There are no shortcuts. If you want it, work for it. Even the much debated computer tests can be prepared for.

Believe me, I know how bitter rejection can taste, I have had my fair share of knock backs. Passing the BA process is very achievable but it takes a lot of hard graft, including focusing on areas that may not initially seem too relevant to our jobs. They set the standard, it's their trainset after all.

Good luck to everyone applying.

[JaxofMarlow]

It is fair to say EMB-145LR that everyone was particularly pleased you got in.

I suppose it is human nature for those that get in think all is wonderful and those that fail the computer tests don't.

Thats life.

Will leave it at that so SinBin can wake up.

[EMB-145LR]

It's a fair comment that I probably have a rosier view than many because of the outcome of my assessment. I would also say that I would never have made it through if it wasn't for a lot of the help, tips and encouragement that I received from total strangers on these forums. For that I am extremely grateful and it was wonderful to see such a good side to the community.

In turn I am more than happy to answer questions and give tips if it's of any help to anybody. However asking to basically copy an application is just poor form.

I should add that although this was my first time through the BA process, I had been through the very similar CityFlyer process on three separate occasions and I never once made it as far as the sim. That was very tough to take, especially in view of the fact that I had hundreds of hours on the type they operate and was approaching a command at my last company, but it's their prerogative.

As I said, if I can be of any legitimate help to anyone, then please feel free to PM me. I have a lot of good faith to repay many people on these boards.

[A and C]

Sounds to me that you could make a few quid selling those answers just like those people who sell a Compass test practice program.

[Superpilot]

I devoted an entire 3 week period to preparation and still failed (I think quite miserably). I'm still two-minded about about trying again in 4 months. On one hand, a career eventually flying big metal (if only to taste it) sounds appealing but on the other hand I know that this kind of testing is not meant for cynical types like me and I'm not very likely to pass. Maybe I should stay put because about 25 FOs from my firm have left for BA recently, 25-50 more over the next two years could mean a quicker time to command. Or should I be cynical about that too? :\

[flybypilot]

Does anyone know how long it takes to be called from the hold pool at the moment? I am a non-rated pilot and got in a few weeks ago, I understand there is a fast track for rated guys but wouldn't mind other peoples recent experiences!

[Harry palmer]

I very much hope the stated recruitment numbers become a reality towards the end of the summer when my 12 months are up. Can anyone recommend some practice books for the verbal reasoning that (really did) help. I got through last time but I can't say I felt confident of success at day one. I used assessment day for prep and didn't really ace them to the point of appearing on countdown. So if there are any better options to try I want to be able to get through again. Totally gutted at being so close this round and having meet so many guys that had passed before and fell at day one this year I would like at least to enjoy two days at waterside again. To all that succeeded best of luck.

[highfive]

I remember many years ago,in the mid 90s, BA opening recruitment, onto all fleets. However the interviews were so exacting that they failed to get the numbers required. They re opened it 6 months later, and asked for 2000 hours jet as a minimum.
Moto of the story is be patient.

A hasty application now that is not successful, will result in a freeze being served. BA may remove their space cadet entrance requirements later this year for good old fashioned flying experience.

Don't be frozen out .. Like I was !

[Wirbelsturm]

I know that this kind of testing is not meant for cynical types like me

Oh, I don't know about that, I passed and I'm as cynical as you can get!!!

Now don't get me started on the touchy, feely management letter!!! :eek:

[wiggy]

Rex

Fair comments,. What folks need to be aware of is that BA is very much "process" driven, especially at management level and once a process is decided, such as selection and recruitment, getting it changed is a bit like doing a U turn in a supertanker.

I rather suspect some in flight ops, including recruitment (and perhaps "commercial"..the lot that "own" this summer's time table ) are beginning to realise that they need more pilots on line now, or not later than cease work tonight. Whether that gives them enough leverage over the other interested parties to succeed in getting the recruiting process streamlined we will have to wait and see.

Hope it all works out for you.

[binsleepen]

Hi all,

I didn't get into BA until my third attempt. First time I failed at day 1, second time I got into the hold pool and then got timed out only for them to reopen recruitment 3 months later. It really sucked, but if you want something enough you have to put it behind you, learn from the experience, and try again and again if necessary. It took me 5 years from first applying until I got in.

It must be very difficult to design tests that give everybody a fair chance but what they have is what you have to pass. If you don't like it you don't need to apply but I would be very surprised if the determination shown, by applying multiple times until one is successful, was not taken into account.

The maths and English comprehension tests are self explanatory, you can practice for it.

The interview, as most of you will know, is competency based i.e. give me an example of when you were a hero/tool, brave/coward etc. get friends and families to think of examples of this type of question and think of answers from both everyday life and the flying job.

The group test is widely discussed and common sense should give you an idea of how best to approach it.

The computer tests have been massively reduced since I first went through but I understand a big clue is to read carefully what you have to do.

The Sim, this is the chance for you to show that you are the sort of guy/girl that someone else would be happy to sit next to for 4 sectors a day or a 10 hour flight to somewhere and then go out for a drink. You clearly have to be reasonably competent at flying the sim and show an increasing learning curve but no-one expects you to be Chuck Yeager (don't take the 747 sim supersonic).

I hope this is of some help to those who have been unsuccessful and are waiting to try again.

edited to add: I have just looked at the job ad for FO and one of the requirements is,
You will be passionate about a career as a pilot with British Airways.
By reapplying after a failure you are clearly demonstrating this.

All the best

[Harry palmer]

Some good sensible input above. Maybe a total 6 month application hold would be more sensible to all that fell at any stage. Would benefit all involved both candidates and BA itself. If you were good enough to be selected for assessment from your application you are interesting to them, if you pass the day one tests you tick that box, if you pass day two you display the personnel qualities they are looking for, the sim goes either way on the day, bad day, nerves etc. so to see these people again ASAP could be a better and easier way. After all you are the same person when it comes to tests, interviews and group exercises. I'm not saying guys should jump stages but at least be able to reapply when the position becomes open, how you perform again is based on your own merit.

And yes it's been 6 months for me but not 12 lol ; )

I think the system of selection is fair and well run, all be it hard work but the 12 month ban on reapplication could be changed.

Roll on September!

[Wirbelsturm]

Simply put, it's pretty much a people based lottery.

It very much depends upon how you feel on the day, how the interviewers feel on the day and how the rest of the candidates feel on the day.

Yes there are warts in the system and yes the company is well aware of them but, the simple truth is, that is the 'warts' are the same for all candidates then that makes it, fundamentally, fair.

That is all the company wants, is a fair and equal selection process. It's human nature to have good and bad days and if you happen to 'luck out' then great but if you don't then unlucky but that sums up a 'day at work' really.

Can't ask fairer than that can you.

[no sponsor]

There's plenty of info in the old big thread about what they are looking for in the sim. Some of it written by those who did the assessments. It takes time to trawl through it, but there is some very useful snippets.

[JammedStab]

So where are the new hires coming from typically? Any from the Middle East or is it too much of a pay cut for them.

[ManagedPath]

Would anyone who has made the transition from mil to BA mind getting in touch via a PM? Many questions and don't want to clog up the bandwidth.

Don't wish to pry or embarrass anyone, but are the BA payscales in the public domain? If so which one would apply to SH A320 FOs.

Much appreciated:ok:

[BASHLH]

I was safety pilot for a New DEP on day one a few weeks ago from Emirates. I've met other FO's down route/on crew bus etc that have come from Qatar & Etihad in the 2011 Recruitment campaign. All have their own personal reasons for coming home, most said they enjoyed it while it lasted but didn't want to have a 40 year career in the ME. Good job but not a long term career for them.

However I have friends from my OAT vintage (calling Oxford OAT is vintage these days) that are out with Emirates/Etihad & love it. So it's purely down to personal choice of what works for you & your family etc. Equally I've heard several crewmers that a few guys have left BA for Etihad/Emirates etc. No airline is perfect! I imagine tho the bulk of DEPs are still coming from Easy/Monarch & alike. BA is not the be all & end all but as a long term stable career it works for me, especially if you want to be in the UK or Europe!

All the best to those applying.

[kirungi1]

...especially if you want to be in the UK or Europe!

BASHLI; huge influence on QOL :ok:

[safelife]

To all those bitching about not being able to apply again in this round:
Lufthansa bans applicants who failed any stage, for LIFE!
You just have to have had a bad day and will never be able to attend again...
...just a perspective.

[Nikonair]

I've just been informed that I've been invited to attend the initial assessment at LHR. Found some good information so far on prune, but still wondering if that information is still valid.

[kirungi1]

Nikonair; Its been suggested that most of that information is still valid. Congrats & good luck :ok:

[EMB-145LR]

Nikonair, congratulations! As kirungi1 said, everything is still valid, the only note I'd add is that the computer tests changed in 2011 and again were altered slightly last year. However, that's all covered in the later posts on here. All the best, and good luck!

[Nikonair]

Thanks guys! I didn't expect to survive the initial CV screening etc. so pleasantly surprised by the invite.
The info on the changed tests is somewhere in this topic or other ones? I've dug up quite a few old topics but a bit scared I missed some left and right.

Timing is in my disadvantage though :ooh: I've got my 6 months sim the week prior, so I hop i'll find enough time in-between flying and preparing for the sim to prepare as best I can for the assessment.

edit: Found the updated information after trawling through this topic.

[go around flaps15]

Hi guys. Does anyone have any idea is there many more long haul courses planned?

Also just to answer a previous posters questions about where certain applicants are coming from. Purely because I worked there in the past I personally know of 10 coming from Ryanair (two skippers but mainly SFIs, and line FOs) who are going on mainly the 747 and one or two on the A320. I know of a few from Easy and Monarch and one guy from Thomson. Obviously there are guys from elsewhere but those are the guys I know.

[Dreamshiner]

Applied on Friday.

Invite to Assessment on Monday.

A couple of lovely phone calls which is polar opposite to dealings with any other airline.

Prep software and keyboard ordered.

Booked assessment today around current roster. To be honest I'm very happy where I am, maybe oddly the best position to be in to pursue something with them.

Fingers crossed.

Can a mod contemplate amending post #1 with a list of the most pertinent information from all the posts in this thread, otherwise if anyone could suggest any post numbers that saves hours of skim reading I'd really be obliged.

[GS-Alpha]

Does anyone else find it amazing that people come to this thread because they are applying to BA and fancy a job; they have loads of really useful information right at their fingertips so all they need to do is read through it, and yet they still would quite like it if someone else could do the donkey work and wade through the posts to find the relevant information for them? I came through the system as a cadet. When I showed up to do the tests, there were no practice examples, and no pprune helpful hints. You just showed up and did your best. The tests are designed to detect your ability to learn and adapt.

[Globally Challenged]

You were lucky .... when I were a lad ..... etc ;-)

[Jetdriver]

Can a mod contemplate amending post #1 with a list of the most pertinent information from all the posts in this thread, otherwise if anyone could suggest any post numbers that saves hours of skim reading I'd really be obliged.

Sure! Contact me privately and I will quote you my hourly rate for doing this for you. However, I think you will find it more cost effective to simply.....do it yourself! :rolleyes:

[Superpilot]

Alternatively...

One has painstakingly gone through each page (albeit around August of 2014) of this thread, and the BA DEP one from last time around to put together a Word document. One is willing to sell if the price is right :E

[Dreamshiner]

Typical pilot remarks.

I remember reading through this forum when folk helped each other rather than looking for a kickback. However we are Thatcher's children, so what do you expect.

GS-Alpha, I take it you showed up for your school/uni exams and were happy to rely on the knowledge you absorbed over the past few months? Or did you hit the past papers .... oh right .... thought so.

However now we do have PPRuNe however if you advocate returning to knotty rope, and sextants over shiney MCDU/FMC's then crack on.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

GS-Alpha, I take it you showed up for your school/uni exams and were happy to rely on the knowledge you absorbed over the past few months? Or did you hit the past papers .... oh right .... thought so.


Hit the past papers, you mean, like, do the study yourself?

What a novel concept!




Read the bloody thread.

[Dreamshiner]

As in, this thread is littered with petulant behaviour and the quality content is lost among discussions like this

[andymiff]

Hi, after screwing up my assessment last November, may I ask what prep software and keyboard you have ordered. I need to prep better for my next shot.

[bex88]

It is my understanding that the 311 target for this year is largely A320 fleet. Approx 50 to LH on the 747 a few rated guys to the 787 and I believe that has now been achieved and remaining placement is A320.

Internal bids for 2016 open soon and further LH placement will come from valid bids prior to external recruitment........that's this mornings plan anyway

[nick14]

Doesn't sound like much hope for long haul for new guys then.

[nrn]

Has anyone heard anything from recruitment after Monday?

[Stay or Go]

Anyone scheduled for the 11th May induction followed by the A320 rating? PM me please. Looking to connect.
Good luck to all those applying!

[wiggy]

Doesn't sound like much hope for long haul for new guys then.

Sadly for some, yes, OTOH it takes the process back to the way it generally has run in the past with Long Haul slots filled by internal bids.

As far as I'm aware BA have only ever recruited DEPs directly to Long Haul when forced to, by, say, a lack of training capacity and/or short haul being so attractive nobody wanted to leave ( stop laughing at the back, it has happened..a long long time ago...).

I suspect that this apparent return to near normality, whilst a blow to prospective DEPs, will be a relief to some already in BA Shorthaul....then again as was pointed out that was the plan this morning, so don't give up hope.

[Down in front]

Has anyone heard anything from recruitment after Monday?

Yep - I applied on the 11th and got my invite to day 1 yesterday

[nick14]

I was hoping for long haul based on my circumstances and current location.

Let's see how far I get before I worry!

[SinBin]

As someone who has been in BA for 4 years I would be mighty upset next year if I lost out to a long haul slot to a DEP.

[pudoc]

I know 4 DEPs going onto LH and only 1 onto SH. None of which have wide body experience.

[nick14]

Likewise however I fear that for this round of recruitment it will be mainly SH.

[Stocious]

Unless you want to be a very junior blindline holder for the next five ish years, that may turn out to be a good thing if you want at least some control over your roster!

[GS-Alpha]

When I went to uni, I was examined on things I'd been taught over the last three years not months, and no I didn't do any past papers - they were not available. University was about being taught a subject - not just passing an exam.

My point was that there is no need to do previous practice for the tests because they are designed to detect your ability to learn and adapt. If you are rubbish when you start off, it's really not a problem. The areas where you do need to be good are your team skills, and I made this point too. I was actually attempting to be helpful, and get you targetting the important areas that you can't just learn and adapt to on the day, but that seems too have flown overhead.

[bex88]

Nice idea about showing learning and its a valid point but it relates to the sim part of the interview process. You best hit the mark in all the papers and aptitude tests otherwise you won't get the chance to show you can learn. That's my experience of it from the past years

[billybuds]

To be fair Stocious I joined early this year onto LH and got myself a tripline with the weekend I wanted off in May.

[Stocious]

It does happen I grant you, just not as often as if you were moving steadily up the seniority list.

[Wirbelsturm]

As someone who has been in BA for 4 years I would be mighty upset next year if I lost out to a long haul slot to a DEP.

As they would need to put you through a conversion course then recruit a DEP into your SH position and put them through a conversion course, I'm afraid, they would recruit direct DEP to LH, thus incurring only a single conversion course, as long as a shortage of experience is evident on the SH fleets or a training backlog exists.

Might be a bit of a wait I'm afraid.

[wiggy]

Maybe Wirbs, and I'm sure that's how the bean counters will always view it.

OTOH if large numbers of our short haul colleagues coming out of basic/initial freeze, or for that matter those currently stuck on the 76, are denied a move by a significant continuation of DEPs to the 747/777/787, simply for economic reasons, I think the BALPA reps could be in for an interesting time.......

[Wirbelsturm]

I think the BALPA reps could be in for an interesting time.......

Very true Wiggy, it seems the rumblings have started already! :E

[bex88]

No BA SH pilots allowed to move to a LH slot in favour of DEP? That would be enough for us on SH to seriously consider all options available to show our feelings. We would see our career progression stall, salary suppressed and life work balance seriously effected.....Again!

LH is not for everyone but I would be very angry if the option was taken away. If we are to become career short haul then give us the 5 on 4 off rosters over the 6 on 2 off we have now and put us on parity with LH pay.

[wiggy]

No BA SH pilots allowed to move to a LH slot in favour of DEP?

bex

I'm not sure such a move would be actually banned unless BA reverts to being BEA and BOAC....at which point I rather suspect BALPA in short haul at BA would be finished.

I think the move of the training facilities from Cranebank to west base this year allowed the company to credibly claim a lack of training capacity, and trigger significant recruiting direct to some of the Long Haul Fleets. It will be very tough for BA to use the same excuse again in the foreseeable future. That said given the nature of the beast and the costs flat/cost cutting mantra I wouldn't be surprised if BA suggested it again to our negotiators.....Hedging my bets I'd guess that whilst we'll continue to see DEPs there will be probably be far fewer onto Long Haul for a while.

Looking on the bright side, when you do move, which you surely will, you'll always be above the current DEPs on your status list.

[GS-Alpha]

Bex, sadly the company will argue we should consider ourselves lucky we ever have the option to change fleets through choice. BALPA will be fearful of short haul being split off from BA altogether, removing forever the ability to move to long haul. They will therefore convince everyone not to rock the boat, and maybe even to take some kind of pay reduction in order to fund the continued ability to transfer when training can cope.

[Widebdy]

The information and feedback on the DEP threads are very accurate. The approach I took was to take the time to read the threads, open a word document and copy/paste all relevant information into one place. The new computer test is the only part of Day one that can not be practised.

[GS-Alpha]

BALPA were well and truly beaten by the company during Openskies, back when they had both a strong pilot mandate and rock solid legal advice. Despite the union's protestations that they are impotent because the pilots are not united, this is in my opinion just spin to keep people paying their subscriptions. My first fifteen years have seen BALPA negotiate 'clever' deals that turn out to be worse than what the company were asking for in the first place. I expect the next fifteen to be no different. In my opinion, we'd achieve exactly the same result if the company simply asked for some volunteers to form a pilot negotiaton/communicaton body, and gave them credit for their non-flying duties.

Please consider your expectations managed.

[wiggy]

GS

There's a risk of continuing the drift but nevertheless I think this is worth briefly persuing on this recruitment thread since I've seen optimistic claims elsewhere about why people should join BA because of BALPA's strong influence on the company.

TBH at a strategic level (often at company council and certainly above) these days I think BALPA in all it's forms is struggling to counter the lobbying power/spend of the industry. OTOH a local level I've always found most of the individual reps in BA to be very very good at helping sorting out difficulties, even if it means ruffling a few feathers with those in the office.

Re Openskies

they had...... rock solid legal advice.

As I heard it that was the nub of BALPAs problem. they thought they had - it turned out they didn't, but we never found out all the gory details.

[SR71]

Looking from the outside in, I think I somewhat agree with wiggy.

EASA FTL's got onto the statute book because of the significant airline lobby. Airline managements across Europe are exploiting the legislative landscape to their advantage knowing it will be years before even a concerted Union lobby will "catch up" so to speak.

There certainly doesn't look like there needs to be a prohibition on swapping fleets in BA, especially when the economics of the swap make sense, but that "luxury" seems to me, just that, a "luxury".

One hopes that regardless of any dashed personal expectations (I always thought Senior SH BA pilots could pretty much generate a LH lifestyle via bidding anyway - although being a LH pilot myself, I honestly don't really understand the lure of the LH lifestyle!), BA pilots stick together, as they're a far more potent force within the industry when they stand united.

[Juan Tugoh]

Thanks to BALPAs weakness or perhaps because it suits certain commuters within the BACC, bidding has been neutered within BA. Even the most senior are affected by this and the days of being able to bid for what you like and avoiding the stuff you don't have ended. Still, on the bright side, it may persuade some not to stay until they die in harness, there maybe more churn soon.

[nick14]

Sounds like the bidline system has changed. Could anyone inthe know share a recent a320 roster?

Thanks

[wiggy]

nick

Sounds like the bidline system has changed.

At the risk of repetition ... yes indeed, whether that's for good or bad depends on your POV.

If you (or anybody else for that matter) starts hearing tales from someone on the joys of Bidline ask them when they last worked as BA Flight Crew. If it's longer ago than the end of '14 than frankly you're probably better off politely ignoring the input.

(but sorry, can't help with the roster but FWIW a final roster in isolation, in itself, might not tell the whole story, you'd need to see the road travelled.....).

[bex88]

I don't think its the lure of LH that has got many wanting to escape SH but the changes to SH making life really hard. I was away from home for 90 duty hours a week in March. Many are saying the only way to survive SH is to go part time.

You know it's bad when guys in the LHS A320 are considering a bid back to RHS on a LH fleet. The roster I saw for a junior P1 is horrible. 10 days off in a month and a line full of poor credit trips and 4 sector days. A junior P2 is not much better. Then you look at a 777 line with heavy crew and three trips in a month with 15 days off a month.............grass is always greener and all that but since SH got stuffed it's only a matter of time before LH gets it too.

I have no issues staying on the SH fleet but I don't feel I pilot should be made to feel he has little or no choice but to bid off based on the wide gulf in lifestyle between the two.

[The Mixmaster]

Thanks to all the guys in the know who've posted on this so far. Could anyone outline in a bit more detail the extent of the recent changes to bidline? Can you still bid for a line of work or has that facility now been completely removed for more generic bidding options such as earlies/mids/lates/overnights/day trips etc. Cheers in advance:ok:

[GS-Alpha]

Wiggy

As I heard it that was the nub of BALPAs problem. they thought they had - it turned out they didn't, but we never found out all the gory details.

I believe that is indeed correct. The problem now is that no matter how much money BALPA throw at their legal advice, they will never trust that it is rock solid and therefore they will never again challenge BA head on. All they can do is tweak agreements to the extent that the company allows them to. Any negotiating body could do that. On a local level; one of my friends was sacked for something he did not do. He was a BALPA member and received very poor advice from the union which ultimately cost an innocent man his job.

[bex88]

You can still bid for lines of work and they are awarded based on seniority. If you are in the bottom 25% then forget it you are on blind lines. Over three years in and since the temporary but now permanent changes came in it's been blind lines for 9 months in a row now.

You can trade trips still but there are now so many restrictions it is very difficult to actually trade without the computer saying no because it's a code L, or a closed day or my personal favourite because there are more than -1 uncovered trips. I am still waiting for the no because there is a y in the day requested.

Since we changed from flying pay to a fixed flight pay allowance CAP has increased substantially. If you do get a trip line you can now be force assigned extra work even if you are above CAP. That Friday you wanted off and got.....na only kidding here is a day trip.

I have flown for three airlines and this one is by far the most demanding of your time. Would I have joined with the benefit of what I know now.......probably not no.

[wiggy]

Can you still bid for a line of work

You can, but now even if you get a line and have hit or exceeded the monthly per capita target the company have the right, prior to the rosters becoming final, of dropping an extra trip(s) onto your line if there is space available, or even re-jigging your line to make space available for an extra trip..I think this months celebrated case is a long haul guy who had well over 90 hours credit on his line and then still had an extra trip dropped onto his roster...right in the space he'd tried to keep free by working harder in the rest of the month....

in short the downside now is that outside of leave you have zero solid control over days off until final rosters are published. OTOH the management can no longer ring you up on an off day or meet you at the aircraft side and hit you with an extra trip at very short notice.

[Wirbelsturm]

Then you look at a 777 line with heavy crew and three trips in a month with 15 days off a month

Wow! Please show me those where you can also achieve CAP that doesn't involve a 9 day LHR-SIN-SYD-SIN-LHR! I must be missing them! ;)

It is very hard on SH at the moment. The letter passed around the company last week alluded to the slim possibility that, maybe, perhaps, possibly management got the crewing levels wrong last summer. Either that or we all went sick over the weekend 'spikes' as 'da management' like to call them.

Hopefully the recruiting will allow top end movement and a bit more of a breather on the line without the need for management to fudge, nudge and cajole the figures to avoid a CAP over run.

Time will tell. :-) Interestingly there is almost zero interest from the RHS LH for applying for LHS SH. Odd that isn't it. :}

[bex88]

Ok hands up perhaps we were guilty of finding a plumb line but I assure you yesterday when bitching about it we looked on Ibid and compared two random lines. 3 trips, at CAP and 15 days off. Either way it kicks the arse out of multi sector days, day trips and 10 days off in a month. What really grates now is the 7am pick up on a domestic to shuttle down to LHR to then have to sit about for three hours before your next link. This has started to become quite common since EASA FTL's

Next you will be saying the cheese board has been removed

[EMB-145LR]

I was assigned LHR Airbus last week starting at the end of July. I have heard of one 747 course too, although I don't know of anyone personally that's been offered it.

[bex88]

A320.......Long haul slots could come up but we need to see how the manpower plan shapes up. That's the actual words from LC. 220 pilots have been offered places with a requirement of 311

[Shaman]

.... the management can no longer ring you up on an off day or meet you at the aircraft side and hit you with an extra trip at very short notice.
What? No more changes of roster after publication? Incredible - well done the BALPA reps!

[Juan Tugoh]

.... the management can no longer ring you up on an off day or meet you at the aircraft side and hit you with an extra trip at very short notice.
What? No more changes of roster after publication? Incredible - well done the BALPA reps!

Yep by screwing up Bidline so that you are now essentially rostered rather than have any real bidding rights, forced draft is no more. In my 14 years at BA I have never been forced drafted but I have used bidding to create a relatively comfortable set of rosters. That ability is gone now and Bidline is dead. The current BACC will be remembered as the ones that failed to defend BLRs and were partners, with BA in supervising the end of BLRs.

Well done the BALPAS reps! - yeah, right.

[Shaman]

... In my 14 years at BA I have never been forced drafted but I have used bidding to create a relatively comfortable set of rosters. That ability is gone now...
And how long do you think that was going to last - welcome to the real world. Anyway, you are over-reacting - no ability to have some control over your work at all - really?

[wiggy]

Perhaps a less emotive description of the changes would be that under "old" Bidline you had a high degree of control over days off, and the more senior you were, the more control you had. Yes, there was the chance of being "drafted" at short notice but there were legitimate ways of constructing your roster to protect specific days. Under Bidline as it works today you have much less control. I think the major bone of contention for many is that you can be over the monthly CAP and the company can still stick extra work on the line and/or they can shuffle trips around to generate a gap to drop work into....I'm not sure I'd describe that as "welcome to the real world", I'd described it as being stuffed.....:\

That said there is indeed still some degree of control. There's still the protection of non assignable days such as leave, and as a back stop the possibility of swoping a trip with a colleague to generate a gap where you need it, however that is becoming increasingly problematic due to everybody's workload and will become even more difficult under EASA.

Ultimately if you join BA in the knowledge that in a month with no non-assignable days (e.g. leave, Duty Free week) you have no guaranteed choice or clarity as to your days off until final rosters are published you'll handle it fine.

...and that's all I want to say about that...:p

[nrn]

Does anyone have some experience with latestpilotjobs interview preparation?

[Boing7117]

I suppose it all depends on where you're coming from that determines how well you'll handle the roster at BA.

I'm used to a minimum of 4 sector days, usually 5 on, 2 off, 6 on, 3 off but it's definitely not fixed.

I can bid for leave but in practice I get it when the company are prepared to fit me in.

I can ask for 4 days off a year and be guaranteed to have them off (provided I get my request in 2 months before the date in question).

I can request up to 4 days off for the roster in two months time, but they are not guaranteed (I averaged 2 of these a month in my career).

I get £2/hr flight pay.

Including the BA flight allowance, I currently earn £15k less than a BA counterpart.

I'll be getting a FREE, globally recognised, globally employable type rating (a one-off in this day and age)

From this FO's point of view, BA looks a damn sight more rosy than many on here are making out.

I'll look forward to seeing whether the grass really is greener.

[Flight714]

Boing7117 - think I know where you work mate and yeh BA for all its faults and I'm sure is not how it was in the fabled "golden days" is still a damned sight better than 95% of alternative plane driver work places. I know I'll be jumping round the room if I'm given a start date and celebrating my pay rise of 30-40%!

To that end, may I second NRM's question on latestpilotjobs - how would you guys and girls who have gone through the process rate it? I've heard the numeracy questions aren't particularly representative...does it simulate the multitasking aptitude test with any degree of accuracy?

Ta all.

[PaulFrank]

The flight director/shapes game on lpj is similar to, but not exactly the same as, the BA test version. That is about only test that comes close(ish) to the ones used by BA.

[Stay or Go]

Whilst studying for the assessments I only concentrated on Maths and Verbal reasoning. I didn't give any time to the computer based assessments. I think you have either got it or you haven't with them, us 80's babies are fortunately from the playstation generation and believe that if you could play one of them you shouldn't have too many worries when it comes to the tests.
Best of luck to all who have applied.

Anyone on the 11th May intro course? PM me. Looking for friends......

[Glen King]

Wide body,

2 guys I know who simmed recently got Airbus and a 75 rated mate got 76, so there are a few long haul slots available. I think it's luck of the draw but type ratings don't seem to factor usually. My sim is imminent and happy either way should the gods be smiling. :ok:

[max_drift]

Hi folks,

Looking for some advice on whether I should apply. I've done all the usual lists etc, and it can be taken for a given that there would be a financial gain in moving to BA (assuming I could jump through the requisite hoops), but lifestyle is making me have doubts and I'm wondering if there's anyone who has jumped from a similar position would care to share some thoughts.

Currently on a TP with a base in Scottish home town. Happy with the job (mostly), command ready and not a million miles off happening, and both mine and mrs_drift's majority of family and friends living nearby. The money isn't fantastic, and even LHS will still just be TP money, but not starving, and have a reasonable amount of input into my roster. Moving Mrs_D South would have a significant career impact for her and although she likes the idea of a change, I suspect would result in frequent trips north, so really I'm looking at commuting.

Assuming the rules stay the same and I'm not struck down before retirement, I've a smidge over another 30 years of doing this, and the itch to ditch the TP is growing, but the non-flying life is good just now and I'm certain would suffer.

Anybody jumped in and care to share their thoughts/experience?

[ETOPS]

Moving Mrs_D South would have a significant career impact for her

So why not commute?

[binsleepen]

Glen King,

No body is coming onto the 767 as it goes out of service in mid 2017. People who are on it are being denied moves to other fleets to avoid wasteful training of new guys for such a short time. This was from a senior manager in the last 7 days.

Max Drift.

Why not apply and give it your all. You will only have a dilemma if you actually get offered a slot. In the meantime use it as an opportunity to keep your interview and selection skills up to date.

Regards

[wiggy]

Why not apply and give it your all. You will only have a dilemma if you actually get offered a slot.

Good advice....

max, you may well get a pay rise by moving to BA, but the other hand don't forget to factor in the cost of buying/living etc etc in the south east in the financial calculations(apologies ahead of time if you've already done that).

As for commuting as an option, yep, certainly possible for Long Haul and certainly possible on a short Haul part time roster....whether it's really possible and sustainable on the sort of rosters full time short haulers are working these days ( and over which you'll have almost zero control) I'll leave for somebody else to answer.

[Glen King]

Binsleepin

Must be a breakdown in communication then as another friend has been given a July start date on the 767 as well. Must have their wires crossed. I don't think SH or LH matters that much to either.

[no sponsor]

I'd say that commuting on a full time SH roster would be almost impossible. The early starts at LHR would often mean you coming in the night before. There are a few "commuting" lines in the bid pack, but they are always going to the mega senior guys.

The real pain in the ass are the long times spent sitting in the canteen (particularly at weekends) waiting 2, 3, or even 4 hours for the next flight. This has no impact on credit for the trip and it makes the days very long. It's totally inefficient and certainly no low cost airline ( which we are compared to when it suits BA for cost comparison) has that. As a result, you spend a long time at work, for not a lot of credit in many lines of work. This has the by-product of allowing you to come in to work for another day, bcoz the 10 hour day you just worked only counts for 6 hours of credit. BALPA completely missed the ball on that one, and I'd suspect the very few SH reps there are on the BACC don't tend to experience those lines of work, so it's not on the radar. Perhaps the reps could pop into the canteen in T5 and gauge opinion from the many crews sat around waiting on any given day.

We can't get back what we gave up, or purposely chose not to negotiate for the 'greater good', so it ain't going to change for the better. BALPA sold EASA as allowing us to spend more time at home bcoz we can work harder when at work, but the reality is we are working harder and spending more days at work. Commuting for a new joiner would be very difficult.

[aerowhisperer]

No body is coming onto the 767

I was offered 767 just yesterday.

[Megaton]

I commuted from Glasgow for 5 years whilst on short and, although I wouldn't describe it as a fun experience, it was (4 years ago) manageable. I can't comment on the feasibility of commuting on current rosters but it depends how determined you are to leave your family where they are. It does cost to commute and I eventually got fed up forking out cash for b & b's and the generally soulless existence. On the other hand, if you're playing the long game and are young enough, it might be worth it in the short term while you hold out for long haul.

[EMB-145LR]

Just out of interest, how does the LCY-SNN-JFK operation work for Airbus crews? Is it a separate sub-fleet with crew assigned to doing that and nothing else? I've read various conflicting reports. I know it's relatively senior, but I was wondering how the nuts and bolts of it work for LCY trained crews? Do they tend to operate a normal short haul schedule out of LHR, with one or two JFK trips thrown in for good measure? Do LCY crews have to go through an internal selection process, or is it purely seniority driven?

[4468]

LCY-JFK fleet is, like EVERYTHING else in BA, based on seniority alone. Nothing else. It's a sub-fleet, and won't be available to any new joiner with less than 7-8 years in the company as it's a very cushy number.

Full time commuting from Scotland on SH sounds like quite a challenge at the moment. So max_drift, don't underestimate happiness!

[Cliff Secord]

Interesting reading about the viability of commuting BA short haul. I'm a bit too old for BA and frankly not interested anyway. I doubt I would fit their profile, they probably wouldnt want me and thats fine as it doesn't (hard to belive I know) appeal to me anyway in absolute truth.

Anyway, it's interesting reading, especially off the back of the nightstop thread.

I commute currently on long haul. It's too easy to gloss over commuting and how it'll work with say 2 days off. It's tempting to think it'll work out but the reality is if you live over a few hours drive away any longer is a simple plain nightmare and down right impossible/pointless if you have to fly up to Scotland or Ireland. Reading of short haul guys on BA it seems it's mostly 2 days off. If you're in Scotland/Eire. How you going to do that? Honestly it'll be 1 local night at home. Maybe 5 nights a month. I do a block of 10-14 days at home in a go which is nice but downside is you're away for a stretch but prefer that to dabbing my toes into home for 24 hours before being away all week again. Just food for thought. As a commuter myself, if you've home/family more than a few hours drive away think carefully about your lifestyle. My rambling point being don't gloss over the commuting details like I did years back. It's actually the most important point unless you plan to up sticks and move.

[fa2fi]

As a short haul LCC commuter I'll give you my tuppence worth. First if I were you I would stay where you are. I can't comment on how things work for BA but I work the similar non fixed pattern as BA.

When you finish late you have to go back to your accommodation for a 3/4 hours sleep then get the first flight out in the morning. By the time you commute home, faff about getting home from the airport you're nearly at lunch time. You also have to try being civil to your loved ones when you're shattered having had next to no sleep and been up since 0500 to get that first flight Northbound. Red bull will your new best mate.

If you've just got 2 days off then it's likely 24 hours at home, 48 if you have three days off. You'll spend your life looking up flights, living out of a case. Then what if there's no seats on the plane? I live a 5 hour car or train ride back to base and that'll likely be worse for you being north or the border. Sometimes when I have two days off finishing on a late and starting back on an early, I just stay down in base as its not worth the trip back as there's no time to account for rest and recovering from the previous work week and preparing for the coming week.

Family events will become a thing if the past, your social life will tumble, you'll go long periods without seeing friends and even your family. If you've got relatives who aren't in the best of health either then it's really no fun being miles away from them.

It's all well and good flying a shiny jet and the wage that goes with it, but you can't put a price of being at home with your loved ones and friends and that alone is worth sticking at the TP gig for. I know I would.

Either that or you both move. Commuting without a fixed pattern for a short haul airline is not sustainable long term.

[binsleepen]

Aerowhisperer,

I was offered 767 just yesterday.

Congratulations, I have to say though that I am very surprised as it flies in the face of everything I have been told as recently as Wednesday lunchtime. It just shows that the latest plan in BA is only valid for 24 hours, after that its anyones guess.

Regards

[aerowhisperer]

binsleepen,


I guess that puts it in the same league as most other airlines in the UK then! ;-)


For info, my timeline from start to finish was:


Applied early Oct 14 (A)
Invitation to assessment 15 days later (A+15 days)
Assessment day one in Jan 15 (A+15 weeks)
Assessment day one result four days later
Assessment day two in Mar 15 (A+22 weeks)
Assessment day two result next day
Simulator assessment two weeks later (A+24 weeks)
Simulator result (by email) 11 days later
Offer in April (A+29 weeks)

[wiggy]

Re the 767....I think the plan depends on who you talk to.

AFAIK the '76 is in the fleet plan until at least 2018 and hence are not formally (in BA speak) a dying fleet.I know many of the present P2s on the '76 are being denied a move elsewhere (the subject of yet another heated debate elsewhere), being told that's down to a lack training capacity and/or lack of P2s on the type - which is credible if BA are indeed recruiting on to the aircraft.

aerowhisperer - firstly congratulations....secondly just be aware that since the '76, whilst not dead yet, is slowly running down, you may well have to do another conversion course before your engagement/initial freeze times out, and that might not be on to a type of your choice......

[bex88]

Fa2fi

Has hit the nail on the head for commuting on SH if you are junior and full time. Everyone I know who is a commuter has or is just going 75%. A friend of mine had in the past been on the phone to me almost in tears because he could not cope. The strain was pulling his family apart and he was in no state of mind to fly so had to take a few days off. The guys flying 75% seem to cope much better because they can always ensure some family time each month.

Max drift: I would apply and go for it. If you get through then you have some serious talking to do with the family. I would have reservations about commuting but if you want a fresh start then it could be for you. Once an hour or so outside of London house prices really do drop off and lifestyle improves. The BA package is good by industry standards in the UK and with 30 odd years to go I thing you would be throwing a career option away for short term comfort.

[LoopGuru]

Part-time has been mentioned a few times now. Out of curiosity, how easy is it to go part-time as a new joiner?

[bex88]

A colleague of mine just got it after three years

[nrn]

Does anyone know, how many questions you need to get right on the numerical and verbal reasoning part? Ish?

[JamesHerriot]

I have Sky Test Prep for Middle East, any ideas what parts of this are relevant to BA DEP computer tests ??
Thanks

[Lead]

Can anyone tell me what PD means on a BA roster?

If it is some kind of leave, is it included in the 6 weeks you get from the company?

Cheers.

[GS-Alpha]

I believe PD means 'Right to request' part time days off.

[ChaseIt]

To those that have applied! how long from date of application to the first assessment day? trying to get an idea of the average...

[avigator]

I have gone through the info on here, highly appreciated.
Got the books. Just wondering if the cockpitweb software is of any use as it's not really a bargain.

[747 Downind]

Anyone been swimming in pool for sometime?
My arms are starting to ache, was never that good at wet drills anyway!
I'm gonna need a life jacket at this rate!
Back to the assessment, people argue whether it is suited to choosing the best pilots. Well, I wouldn't want to answer that but it is suited I'd say to those that put the hard work in. I've applied twice before and got knocked back at the screening stage, but this time my mental attitude was different. You have to buy into the concept and accept it's their show and you must prove to them you really want it!
This time I worked meticulously over a 5 month period leaving no stone unturned..did my research and prepped, it paid off! Ask yourself how much you want it and how much you are willing to work for it. It's been the hardest airline assessment I've ever done but I believe it's worth it!
Best of luck to those applying.

[Wirbelsturm]

Anyone been swimming in pool for sometime??

'Rumour' is that the pool could well be empty of swimmers by this summer. :ok:

[EMB-145LR]

747 Downind, how long have you been swimming for? My course date was offered exactly one month after getting the email to say I'd passed the sim. Fingers crossed you'll get a call soon.

Does anyone have a copy of the latest PP34 pay scale? PPJN used to have a full breakdown, but it's since disappeared.

[itsnotwhoyouknow]

James Herriot

Only the multidimensional aspect of it. None of the others are used!

[747 Downind]

EMB 145-LR: It's been 5 weeks now, I'm grateful to know the pool will be emptied..the waiting is tender hook stuff though!! Ring ring...will it be BA..oh no more PPI sales foke!!!:*

[bex88]

Emb 145-LR

I have got a file of the pay scales. What do you want to know? Starting? Top? SH, MH, LH, pensionable pay, OT hourly rate?

Any BA BALPA member can access it but i would not want to just publish it

[EMB-145LR]

Thanks Bex88. I'm just trying to work out roughly how much my salary will go up each year after my first year as an Airbus LHR FO with the company?

[bex88]

It's about £1400 odd pounds a year. If/when you choose to go LH its approx 2k increments

Start year one is £54k. You will then get your FPA at £597 a month (I think that's the current rate on Airbus) and duty pay @ £3.50 per duty hour from check in to clear.

[EMB-145LR]

Fantastic info, thanks very much!

[aerowhisperer]

For all those asking about timescales, I hope this helps:


http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/538503-ba-direct-entry-pilot-77.html#post8955102

[Baden Powell]

Just got the second Dear John letter in a year; before bidding is closed (May 10th, 2015) I got knocked back and for the second time in a row not even invited for the first round, having prepared screening questions and texts of 600 and 300 words, with plenty of motivation music. So how can one 'meticulously' prepare for this? Is there a secret password that opens Sesame? Reason for rejection surely can't be my experience (I'm type rated on 787 , and TRI on 737, 14000 h total and 10000 PIC on wide body...). Age perhaps? (48) So what's the magic word that opens the gates?

[twice round the hold]

Hoping to get a second shot at BA later this year.

It seems that all recruitment is now on to the A320 with a few exceptions.

What is the lifestyle like now on the Airbus at LHR? How many nightstops per month for a junior FO? Are they long enough to see the city your staying in any more? How many days off average per month? How many sectors per day? Is a take home of around £4000-4200 realistic first year? Is trip trading possible and easy to do, or do the company discourage swaps?

Sorry for asking so many questions, it now just seems hard to get up to date information on this stuff.

[Feck]

You beat me to it, twicehold. I'm hearing lots of rumours of how hard A320 FOs are working but little first-hand. Grateful for any info.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Ladies and Gents,

Joining BA as a junior pilot, you will find yourself in blind line territory, so you can put in preferences for the trips that you want, however on saying that last month I noticed a hell of a lot of junior guys on trip lines.

I typically find myself with anything from 11 to 15 days off a month, depending on leave duty free weeks etc.

Trips now range from single day trips, to 5 day trips if that is what you desire. There appear to be more and more 4 sector days kicking around, with early reports and late finishes.

Night stopping these days will provide you enough time to go out and about if you would like to go and see the cities. However, there are rumours kicking around that IAG are looking to change hotel locations, mainly airport hotels.

Yes there is an electronic swapping facilities through the intranet and one bid line program. The beauty of this system is there is so much uncovered work you often find yourself with the ability to re-write your own roster if what you get on a blind line doesnt suit you, and it always gives you options to pick up overtime if you would like to earn extra bunce.

I personally, am enjoying BA I have been there 3 years, its a great place to be, with lots of options and is a stable environment. Even in the time I have been there there has been lots of movement and change with commands, guys moving to long haul, new routes, new aeroplanes.

Hope that helps.

All the best.