BA Direct Entry Pilot.

[VinRouge]

How much is Brexit going to influence working at BA in the future. Looking from the perspective of joining around this time?

http://www.darksouls-thebook.com/images/how-long-is-a-piece-of-string.jpg

[GS-Alpha]

WW has always said Brexit will have limited effect on IAG. He's never (as far as I am aware) specifically said how he thinks it will alter BA's bottom line, but BA currently provides the vast majority of IAG's profits, so he either expects this to continue or that the other airlines within the group will take over. There are many who believe Brexit will result in a huge hit to BA's premium customer base, but that all depends on what Brexit actually means. Personally, I think the negotiations will continue for such a lengthy period of time with no real direction, that people will just get bored of it all and businesses will either bumble along without any innovative plans for the future, or they will leave the UK and get on with growing.

[wiggy]

Brexit and BA: nobody knows (or if they do they are not saying anything).

Brexit is just one of many variables that could effect recruiting next year.

[Easy Street]

Can anyone advise on the thinking behind requiring a type rating (any) and 500hrs for the latest round, when the expense of a TR course would be needed for most recruits anyway? Could it be that ‘fresh’ fATPL holders typically fail more TR courses or line training, or is it about speeding up line training and reducing the need for training captains?

[RexBanner]

As far as I understand it, the type rating requirement covers the candidate for ZFT training which I suppose is where BA are coming from. As far as the recruitment process goes (for those that have moaned about it), I was as fierce a critic of this as any having failed the computer aptitude tests twice. However I discovered on the third attempt at it that they just required some preparation and work (indeed that goes for the whole process). Any commercial pilot worth a grain of salt can pass them given the effort and application, I know because I’m living proof. So if you really want to work for BA then you might have to work for it, nothing wrong with that.

[Easy Street]

Thanks Rex. I hadn’t thought of the ZFT angle. Where does the TR requirement leave military pilots with >500hrs ME who would otherwise be eligible for ZFT though? Seems to exclude them somewhat arbitrarily.

[bex88]

Easy street. If you're a Service Pilot in the Royal Air Force, Royal Navy, Royal Marines or Army Air Corps, you can apply via our Managed Path – Direct Entry Pilot Scheme (lifted from the experienced pilots recruitment page) I am not sure this is currently active for the current recruitment as it does specify a type rating. Under the requirements it just says a type rating and 500 flying hours. It does not specify what type rating as it’s open recruitment to both SH and LH and the hours do not state on type. I would assume they would love a load of type rated pilots with hours for DEP money and a minimum training footprint. However they are probably relatively few in number. I would say you need to get in contact with LC or LA or any other inside contact you have to ask some questions. I do fly with a good number of relatively recent ex military recruits.

[cessnapete]

Some ex Service pilots joined BA LH, 744, 787.777,A380 on the last tranche as DEP. Mainly ex Voyager as they get EASA A330/350 TR in RAF ,as conversion by Air Tanker use civilian pilots. Hence ZFT qualified. (Had to have done their ALTP exams in spare time of course)

[VinRouge]

Some ex Service pilots joined BA LH, 744, 787.777,A380 on the last tranche as DEP. Mainly ex Voyager as they get EASA A330/350 TR in RAF ,as conversion by Air Tanker use civilian pilots. Hence ZFT qualified. (Had to have done their ALTP exams in spare time of course)

Plus a fair few C17, A400M and Herc mates without the Type Rating too, taken on via DEP, whom will also qualify for ZFT (effectively you get an unfrozen ATPL upon completion of the Type rating with the company, hours dependent).

Problem with waiting for managed path, its only opened about 3 times in the time I served and doesnt really offer that much more to the applicant than offered as part of DEP these days.And yes, 14 ATPL plus the joys of completing the CPL Skills and IR on a twin piston......

[cessnapete]

Pity the days are gone when we took a ride as a civvy IRE in a Herc or Tristar to qualify the RAF guys for a civil IR. We all flew the same Airways!!
Common sense departs again. Although prob didn't do the Service pilot retention stats much help.

[Easy Street]

[on the last recruitment cycle] a fair few C17, A400M and Herc mates without the Type Rating too, taken on via DEP, whom will also qualify for ZFT (effectively you get an unfrozen ATPL upon completion of the Type rating with the company, hours dependent).

These are the people who I think will feel unfairly excluded by the TR requirement this time round. I don’t fall into the category but I wonder if the TR requirement can be ‘overlooked’ for those that do...

[VinRouge]

These are the people who I think will feel unfairly excluded by the TR requirement this time round. I don’t fall into the category but I wonder if the TR requirement can be ‘overlooked’ for those that do...

I am not convinced it is a requirement if you take a close look at the DEP application.

Current type rating and a minimum of 500 flying hours (not including simulator time) on a Zero Flight Time (ZFT) qualifying aircraft, ideally with flying experience on this type within
the past 12 months. Preference for the longhaul fleets will be given to those currently flying
a jet type with a MTOM of 25 tonnes or greater and holding an unfrozen ATPL (A)
NB - for information on the EASA ZFT requirement please refer to CAP 804 section
FCL.730.A.

My understanding is that most of the RAF's AT fleet are ZFT qualifying... again, doesn't affect me, but for those that suspect it does, I think it would be worth clarification.

[Don Logan]

Can anyone share the current day 1 tests for BA these days. I went 4 years ago but I believe there have been some changes to the tests recently?? Any advice much appreciated. 😃

[angelo26]

Can anyone share the current day 1 tests for BA these days. I went 4 years ago but I believe there have been some changes to the tests recently?? Any advice much appreciated. 😃

Hi, I was studying on latestpilotjobs and it seems that verbal reasoning has changed...

[Globally Challenged]

Does this mean people have started to be offered assessments for the DEP application?

I was just wondering that too.

[NukeHunt]

Anyone else having issues with the on line application form?
I can fill in the type rating section just fine, but it will not let me answer the 3 questions below. It doesn't let me click in the box to type out my answers.

[zero/zero]

Seems like all has gone quiet until the application closes? Perhaps they're waiting to see how successful all the A320 interviews go

They have been offering assessments in May, about 3/4 different dates available ...

[Meg9]

Anyone has done the first day selection in the last year? There is some talk of some of it having changed, but I can't find something concrete.
I did the selection 3 years ago when it was verbal and numerical reasoning, the multitasking test with ATC and system monitoring, and the multitasking crosshairs/countdown/shapes ?
Does anyone know if this is still the case?

Cheers! :ok:

[Redthruster]

Anyone else having issues with the on line application form?
I can fill in the type rating section just fine, but it will not let me answer the 3 questions below. It doesn't let me click in the box to type out my answers.
Yeah I'm having exactly the same issue. Just been on hold to BA I.T. dept for over an hour but no one is answering! Any idea when the closing date is, can't find it on the application.

[Shadyxc1]

Yeah I'm having exactly the same issue. Just been on hold to BA I.T. dept for over an hour but no one is answering! Any idea when the closing date is, can't find it on the application.
Did you have any luck getting this sorted?

[VinRouge]

Did you have any luck getting this sorted?
Click the top box.

Fill in your hours.

Use the Tab key to move the cursor down.

[Fabu]

Yeah I'm having exactly the same issue. Just been on hold to BA I.T. dept for over an hour but no one is answering! Any idea when the closing date is, can't find it on the application.
same issue, any luck? closing date has been moved up to this Friday, 18th.

[captain.weird]

I got an email offering an assessment but when I click to book it says “no entries”.

Has anyone had any experience of this? Do they email you when more dates become available or do you just need to keep checking it yourself?

May I ask when you've sent your application in?

[ChaseIt]

I got an email offering an assessment but when I click to book it says “no entries”.

Has anyone had any experience of this? Do they email you when more dates become available or do you just need to keep checking it yourself?

Got the email last night, clicked straight on the link and it showed available dates.... Go back today and get ‘no entires’... Either slots are tight or something has gone wrong... sent them an email, see what happens I guess

[Phantom4]

BA application should be carefully considered and not rushed.HR department can recognise that immediately.

[klm1234]

QUOTE=The Foss;10147068]

I think there was only the odd place on those dates as I know a guy who booked onto one of them a week or so ago. I could see three as soon as I got the email then by the time I’d checked when I could make it (only 10 mins or so) all were gone. Sent an email too.

I am having the same issues. Checked it couple of time it still show “no entries so far”

[V1_cut]

Can anyone recommend what to use to prep for day 1, latestpilotjobs.com any good?

[Gabbers]

More dates available now.

[NLP]

What so you’re saying because I had everything ready for when it opened this is rushed?
Anyone who is in the industry who is interested would have known it was opening.
Last time I missed out, work got in the way and I spent ages getting everything ready then they closed it early!!!
Rushed!! No just had everything prepared.

Don't worry about these silly comments. You are 100% right. The BA recruitment team is full of pragmatic and nice people. They all want as many suitable applicants as possible and are not looking for an excuse to turn people down. Well done on applying quickly and your preparations. It all helps in getting your name on the seniority list as quick as you can.

[JV]

I should not even be on this thread, but, as an early retired and inconsequential Canadian, who flew numerous general aviation aircraft, and numerous airliners, mostly for charter operators (think britannia, monarch, and the like), long haul and short haul, big and narrowbody, and one asian national carrier doing long haul, I must say that being a pilot in the UK sounds awfully complicated. And yes, have flown into the UK numerous times, along with the rest of Europe. Just part of the job.

After a fair amount of outright bankruptcies, mass layoffs, and constant seasonal layoffs, it just so turned out that I had to get many new type ratings with the new employer, and all paid by the employer. So, none of this type rated requirement was going on. At the end of the day, it was just another airplane to learn. People of my ilk actually got fed up by going onto yet another course, just to fulfill employment requirements.

The two main carriers here, and, all of the American carriers, hire non type rated pilots all the time, and they provide all of the training. However, there are no cadet programs, people tend to have at the very least, 2000 to 5000 hours of flying time in anything that flies. Even if you had a type rating on one of their aircraft, it would mean little or nothing, since initial job awards are solely based on seniority driven openings.

I feel for you guys, aviation life in Britain sounds very hard...........

Cheers

[JV]

Nope. Born in Canada and it is the only passport I have. So could never work in Europe in any case, pointless to even pursue an EASA/JAA/UK license or type rating. Do have two european born parents though, so I could have gotten the passport at least, but again, no point since I was installed in a life and a job over here.

[PressTheTit]

Can any swimmers confirm if there has been any comms to the holdpool of late? I received an email back in Feb informing me that other people had been offered jobs (something about salt and wounds). 2 years of swimming now and no idea if i’ve a gold badge or indeed drowned. Have I missed the most recent Webinar?

[Planefan2981]

Hi guys,

This is my first time getting through to the first assessment. For those that have done it before, it is similar to the way other airlines programme their computer based tests or is it something totally different?

cheers.

[cessnapete]

I should not even be on this thread, but, as an early retired and inconsequential Canadian, who flew numerous general aviation aircraft, and numerous airliners, mostly for charter operators (think britannia, monarch, and the like), long haul and short haul, big and narrowbody, and one asian national carrier doing long haul, I must say that being a pilot in the UK sounds awfully complicated. And yes, have flown into the UK numerous times, along with the rest of Europe. Just part of the job.

After a fair amount of outright bankruptcies, mass layoffs, and constant seasonal layoffs, it just so turned out that I had to get many new type ratings with the new employer, and all paid by the employer. So, none of this type rated requirement was going on. At the end of the day, it was just another airplane to learn. People of my ilk actually got fed up by going onto yet another course, just to fulfill employment requirements.

The two main carriers here, and, all of the American carriers, hire non type rated pilots all the time, and they provide all of the training. However, there are no cadet programs, people tend to have at the very least, 2000 to 5000 hours of flying time in anything that flies. Even if you had a type rating on one of their aircraft, it would mean little or nothing, since initial job awards are solely based on seniority driven openings.

I feel for you guys, aviation life in Britain sounds very hard...........

Cheers
J V
Not complicated at all! It’s a buyers market at the moment lots of recruitment too few pilots. Most Legacy airlines have a well trodden recruitment process to get the best applicants and weed out the weak.
In the UK we even take on non type rated pilots with 250 ish total hours out of reputable training schools and put them straight onto A320/B737 types.

[VinRouge]

J V
Not complicated at all! It’s a buyers market at the moment lots of recruitment too few pilots. Most Legacy airlines have a well trodden recruitment process to get the best applicants and weed out the weak.
In the UK we even take on non type rated pilots with 250 ish total hours out of reputable training schools and put them straight onto A320/B737 types.
HR still have a good go at turning those applying those for selection into Aviation HR experts.

[AirUK]

Can anyone confirm the current time to command on long haul in BA? Many thanks.

[Right Engine]

Can anyone confirm the current time to command on long haul in BA? Many thanks.

About 19-20 years at the moment.

Although over the next 15 years roughly half of the community will retire.

[Tricia Takanawa]

Right Engine,

Many thanks, that confirms what I'd heard. Doesn't sound as though it would be worth me joining in my mid-30s - I'm hoping to wind down a bit by my mid-50s (if I can afford it!), even if the retirement bulge might mean it comes forward by a couple of years.

You also need to factor in the lack of lifestyle for the first 5+ years in your mid 30's. Many sell BA as a lifestyle choice. But the reality is far from ideal, with most weekends at work, and 2+ periods of reserve every year. Not great if your past 30, with a family and very little time to reap the rewards at the end of the career, as a JUNIOR LH skipper.

[AirUK]

Tricia,

Another good point to consider - thank you.

[GS-Alpha]

Also, by the time you’ve been in the company long enough to finally be earning above market rate, you’ll be so knackered you’ll be needing part time, so you won’t actually end up reaping those rewards.

[reeko]

Any news of more assessment invites?

[Meg9]

Hi guys,

This is my first time getting through to the first assessment. For those that have done it before, it is similar to the way other airlines programme their computer based tests or is it something totally different?

cheers.

Hi Planefan2981, could you share what your day 1 was like ? did you use anything like latestpilotjobs to prepare?

thank you!

[Serenity]

Anyone still waiting for a reply to assessments in first week of May.
If you don’t hear for three weeks, are they just finding you sim slots??

[SinBin]

I joined at 34, was told I’d not get a even a short haul command at Gatwick for 16 years, but I got that in 4, then a Heathrow one 4 months later. Anything can happen, you never know. Been in 7 years now, checking iBid every month shows between 5-10 leavers per month, most not going to 65.

[AirUK]

I joined at 34, was told I’d not get a even a short haul command at Gatwick for 16 years, but I got that in 4, then a Heathrow one 4 months later. Anything can happen, you never know. Been in 7 years now, checking iBid every month shows between 5-10 leavers per month, most not going to 65.

Is LH that fluid though?

[SinBin]

Is LH that fluid though?
Not up to now, but it’s falling all the time, and who knows?

[wiggy]

Well it certainly is fluid but I’d not like to predict which way.....LH commands used to around the 15 year mark, recently however I’ve flown with several guys who are coming up to 20 years in the RHS and they are not being held back by being particularly selective in what they have bid for.

Logically I suspect you’ll see the time to command slide back down to more normal levels as retirements and a few resignations kick in so those that have already joined might benefit.

[Tay Cough]

If you use 18-20 years as a benchmark, you’ll be about right. It may go slightly more junior than that but it’s the holy grail for most people so don’t expect it to go wildly junior. My first opportunity for a LH command was at eighteen and a half years. It’s currently sitting at about 18.

I do do a lot of short (three day, two crew) trips on the 400 but that suits me. The senior mostly seem to head for South Africa.

[GS-Alpha]

I’d say it is currently sitting at 19 years. I’m hoping for one at between 19 and 20 years, although I suspect there may actually be a blip upwards next year so it may take 21.

[RexBanner]

Don’t forget, however, that long haul is increasingly the long term future of this company.

[V1_cut]

Just wondering if anyone knows how long it takes to get back to you after the day 1 of assessments?
cheers

[pilotting]

Just wondering if anyone knows how long it takes to get back to you after the day 1 of assessments?
cheers

For how long are you waiting currently? or do you have the result of assessment day 1 already?

[C212-100]

Hello all,

Any idea if this recruitment drive is only for the A320 fleet or coudl be for any fleet depending on experience?

Regards,

[angelo26]

Hi all,

Any feedback from someone who has recently attended day 1?

thanks

Regards
Angelo26

[Deano777]

I haven't attended but a friend has and he said they've ditched the crosshairs and shapes test.

[angelo26]

I haven't attended but a friend has and he said they've ditched the crosshairs and shapes test.


Thanks!
So there are 3 exercise, maths-english and the flight crew test, correct?
Regards

Angelo26

[DDobinpilot]

I did the assesment 2 years ago, I have heard from friends who have done it that they have ditched the crosshairs test. So just Maths, Verbal Reasoning and TCAS type computer test. It sounds like they have also increased the time limit on the maths test but might be wrong?

I understand they got rid of their old Verbal reasoning test and replaced it with an "easier" one, can anyone confirm if the Maths test is still the same one?

[angelo26]

Hi,
This morning I received the email that some slots for day 1 were uploaded, nevertheless as soon as I logged in all the slots were gone.
Anyone had luck with that today?those sots were in june or july?

regards

[Reacher19]

Hi,
This morning I received the email that some slots for day 1 were uploaded, nevertheless as soon as I logged in all the slots were gone.
Anyone had luck with that today?those sots were in june or july?

regards

Slots available. Check back now

[captain.weird]

Anyone with the latest info about day one? Experiences, notes, links for exercising.. All will be much appreciated!

[C212-100]

Hi,
This morning I received the email that some slots for day 1 were uploaded, nevertheless as soon as I logged in all the slots were gone.
Anyone had luck with that today?those sots were in june or july?

regards

Hi angelo26,

There were slots available in June and first 2 days of July.

cheers.

[angelo26]

Slots available. Check back now
Just booked now! thanks!
The uploaded slots are from july the 3rd until july the 16th
Any feedback would be great!
Good luck all
Regards

[RJ100]

Just tried and its showing no slots available

[Machpoint85]

Hi all!
I'm doing Day 1 early July.

Does anyone know which tests are in effect at the moment?
Which tool is best to prepare? Skytest?

[donogca]

Anybody having issues booking stage 2? No dates available all week.

[DriverJake]

Hi

Does anyone please have any info on day 1 assessment? Any info anyone has would be much appreciated. PM's gratefully accepted!!

Cheers and thanks in advance.

DJ

[Exiled Martian]

Good Evening Fellas & Females,

Just signed in to echo the sentiments of request directly above regarding Day 1 & beyond.

Can anyone who has already been on this well trodden path give us new hopefuls an insight into what to expect come Day 1 please? The Maths & Verbal reasoning is crystal clear. Just need some concrete clarity into what exactly does the modern CBT assessment entail? (shapes/ILS tracking/Hand info processing? classic skytest profile or?).

Feel free to Pass the Mustard :ok:

Regards

E.M

[ManualFlight787]

Anyone got any information for stage 1 of the assessment? Any recommendations on what software/tools to use to prepare would be highly appreciated too!

Happy to receive PMs and thanks in advance :)

b]You can’t use the Private Messaging system, add url links or images until you have an established posting history.[/b]

[Barry Landing]

Anyone able to share what the current hold pool waiting times are for LH & SH?

Cheers,

Bazza

[Flaplesslanding]

Stage 1; Maths test, multi choice answers and not too hard. Verbal reasoning, again not too hard, and quite clear cut, just read everything carefully. Finally there is the BA capacity test, which is the TCAS style one with a couple of systems to look after as well.

The classic PILAPT flight director/shapes/numbers isn’t used any more.

[TeabagRA]

Slots available...gogogo

[Littleoldme]

Stage 1; Maths test, multi choice answers and not too hard. Verbal reasoning, again not too hard, and quite clear cut, just read everything carefully. Finally there is the BA capacity test, which is the TCAS style one with a couple of systems to look after as well.

The classic PILAPT flight director/shapes/numbers isn’t used any more.


hello, Are the maths test graphical like the SHL practice questions?

[captain.weird]

Is latestpilotjobs a must or not?

[DriverJake]

Stage 1; Maths test, multi choice answers and not too hard. Verbal reasoning, again not too hard, and quite clear cut, just read everything carefully. Finally there is the BA capacity test, which is the TCAS style one with a couple of systems to look after as well.

The classic PILAPT flight director/shapes/numbers isn’t used any more.

thanks. Much appreciated!

[Machpoint85]

Do they provide a calculator for the math tests?

[Dupre]

Do they provide a calculator for the math tests?

No calculator allowed. But they do provide a pencil and paper.

[Dupre]

I'd like to prepare for my upcoming sim by having a look at Aerad charts like they use, and an example flight plan so I can see the format.

Does anyone know where to find copies (out of date is fine too!)?

Thanks a lot, please feel free to PM me if you can help.

[Machpoint85]

No calculator allowed. But they do provide a pencil and paper.

Thank you very much :)

[Tricia Takanawa]

I'd like to prepare for my upcoming sim by having a look at Aerad charts like they use, and an example flight plan so I can see the format.

Does anyone know where to find copies (out of date is fine too!)?

Thanks a lot, please feel free to PM me if you can help.


BA now use Lido charts. A google image search for Lido Charts brings loads of examples up.
From memory, you don't get a proper flight plan, just a basic fuel plan, very basic route and NOTAMS/Weather. So no need to study that.

For the BA sim assessment concentrate on CRM and pilot competencies more. They expect you to make basic errors as they recognise that people don't fly the 747 in basic modes every day. Its more how the two of you address this as a team.

[PressTheTit]

I'd like to prepare for my upcoming sim by having a look at Aerad charts like they use, and an example flight plan so I can see the format.

Does anyone know where to find copies (out of date is fine too!)?

Thanks a lot, please feel free to PM me if you can help.

https://www.navigraph.com/ViewNews.aspx?newsId=70

When I was prepping for my Sim, I got a one month subscription for €7.50 and printed all of the latest Lido plates from here. Good Luck

[bex88]

Revise, verbal reasoning and mental maths. Pen and paper stuff. Estimation, areas etc that kind of stuff. Fractions, percentages, long and short division and multiplication.

group excersise, just be yourself. Don’t sit there and say nothing and don’t take the ball and run with it yourself. In my group I was forced into the later because everyone just looked at each other and we would still be sitting there now unless I had got things moving. If needs be get it going but start distributing tasks to involve others and towards the end if needs be pull everyone together to come up with an answer between you but resist telling them what the answer is.

sim: you can’t prepare for it really. You can fly a 747 perfectly and still won’t get in if your CRM is not what they want. Again if everyone played the game I would still be in the sim answering a question with a question and making no real progress. Just make an effort to include your colleague, ask them for another option and if you can get a TDODAR in there a PPP and a bottom line for your decision then you will be pretty much ok. BA is very different from the airlines I was at before so it can feel pretty alien. It’s more of a “I know what I expect to do and how I am going to do it but I need to check that you know what we are going to do and how we are going to do it” that way we are both working to the same plan. Other airlines were far more “this is what I will do, got it?”

Hope that makes sense

[Littleoldme]

Revise, verbal reasoning and mental maths. Pen and paper stuff. Estimation, areas etc that kind of stuff. Fractions, percentages, long and short division and multiplication.

group excersise, just be yourself. Don’t sit there and say nothing and don’t take the ball and run with it yourself. In my group I was forced into the later because everyone just looked at each other and we would still be sitting there now unless I had got things moving. If needs be get it going but start distributing tasks to involve others and towards the end if needs be pull everyone together to come up with an answer between you but resist telling them what the answer is.

sim: you can’t prepare for it really. You can fly a 747 perfectly and still won’t get in if your CRM is not what they want. Again if everyone played the game I would still be in the sim answering a question with a question and making no real progress. Just make an effort to include your colleague, ask them for another option and if you can get a TDODAR in there a PPP and a bottom line for your decision then you will be pretty much ok. BA is very different from the airlines I was at before so it can feel pretty alien. It’s more of a “I know what I expect to do and how I am going to do it but I need to check that you know what we are going to do and how we are going to do it” that way we are both working to the same plan. Other airlines were far more “this is what I will do, got it?”

Hope that makes sense

Thats great feedback, thank you, is there much in the way of graphical questions like the SHL stuff?

[BitMoreRightRudder]

And just like that, Bex has nailed it. That is exactly the advice I would give, in a nutshell. Think like that and don’t crash or attempt a landing off a crazy approach, and i reckon you’ve cracked the sim. And group exercise come to think of it.

[phonetic]

I should not even be on this thread, but, as an early retired and inconsequential Canadian, who flew numerous general aviation aircraft, and numerous airliners, mostly for charter operators (think britannia, monarch, and the like), long haul and short haul, big and narrowbody, and one asian national carrier doing long haul, I must say that being a pilot in the UK sounds awfully complicated. And yes, have flown into the UK numerous times, along with the rest of Europe. Just part of the job.

After a fair amount of outright bankruptcies, mass layoffs, and constant seasonal layoffs, it just so turned out that I had to get many new type ratings with the new employer, and all paid by the employer. So, none of this type rated requirement was going on. At the end of the day, it was just another airplane to learn. People of my ilk actually got fed up by going onto yet another course, just to fulfill employment requirements.

The two main carriers here, and, all of the American carriers, hire non type rated pilots all the time, and they provide all of the training. However, there are no cadet programs, people tend to have at the very least, 2000 to 5000 hours of flying time in anything that flies. Even if you had a type rating on one of their aircraft, it would mean little or nothing, since initial job awards are solely based on seniority driven openings.

I feel for you guys, aviation life in Britain sounds very hard...........

Cheers

I have the same background as you, except I'm a dual Canadian/British passport holder, and dual TCCA/EASA ATPL holder. About 9 type ratings for many of the same reasons as you, flown in Asia also.

I think this comment is nonsense. Maybe you should have gotten your EASA licence, and worked in the UK (not on a validation) before making those comments. You might see things differently. Then again, the majority of Canadian pilots (not necessarily you btw) are scared to death of the EASA ATPL exams, as most would never get through them.

Additionally, your comment about hour requirements, and no cadet programs is grossly outdated. In the 90's, and early 2000's, these comments would have rung true, but not in 2018.

To be honest, I feel worse for the Canadian kids who can't/won't make any money in their careers. You'd make more money as a TTC bus driver in Canada nowadays. It's a shame.

Cheers!

[hans brinker]

I have the same background as you, except I'm a dual Canadian/British passport holder, and dual TCCA/EASA ATPL holder. About 9 type ratings for many of the same reasons as you, flown in Asia also.

I think this comment is nonsense. Maybe you should have gotten your EASA licence, and worked in the UK (not on a validation) before making those comments. You might see things differently. Then again, the majority of Canadian pilots (not necessarily you btw) are scared to death of the EASA ATPL exams, as most would never get through them.

Additionally, your comment about hour requirements, and no cadet programs is grossly outdated. In the 90's, and early 2000's, these comments would have rung true, but not in 2018.

To be honest, I feel worse for the Canadian kids who can't/won't make any money in their careers. You'd make more money as a TTC bus driver in Canada nowadays. It's a shame.

Cheers!

So, not Canadian, dual EU/USA passport, flew in EU (on a full JAA ATPL) for a decade, and for the last decade in the USA. I have only 6 type ratings.. I don't know about the bus drivers here, but a second year FO at pretty much any non-regional is making over $100K. Over 95% of the people getting on at such places have over 2000 hours. There is ONE ab-initio program (JetBlue) up and running, and it starts with a 4 year degree, followed by a year or two of flight instructing, ALL PAID FOR BY THE STUDENT, around $200K). Beginning pilots go to the regionals and make (including sign-up bonusus) $65K/year. Again, I know nothing about Canada, but I definitely prefer the current situation here over the situation in the EU. Correct me if I am wrong, but none of the legacies hire of the street, if you don't do the approved school and are young enough you can forget about getting in (possibly different at BA, my experience is KLM/DLH). If you can't get onto a legacy your options are Ryanair/WOW/Vueling/Wizz/NAS and so on: temporary/zero hour contracts, no union protections, no social security. Never thought I would say it but aviation is a dumpster for starting pilots in the EU compered to the US.

[am111]

Never thought I would say it but aviation is a dumpster for starting pilots in the EU compered to the US.

This is just plain wrong. I'm a newly qualified European pilot, married to an American so have the right to work in both the EU & US, so I've looked into this.

The main difference is that newly qualified cadets such as myself, rightly or wrongly, can get into the right hand seat of a commercial air liner with <200 hours. In the US (not sure on Canada) you have to do 1000 odd hours of instructing/crop dusting/parachute drops/banner towing for a hell of a lot less than a Ryanair FO. Ryanair and easyJet have or are ending the temporary/zero hour contracts, they're recognising unions and social security is built into our taxes. Now, I'm not saying their T&Cs are as good as the legacies, but I know where I would much rather do my first 1500 hours. And its my understanding from there you can get into any of the European majors off the street. In the US you have to go through a regional and have a university degree before the Majors will even look at you.

[Guynemer]

Hi guys,

I attended stage 2 (interview and group exercise) of the A30 DEP First Officer recruitment offer on the 21st May, and I got an e-mail beginning of June telling me that I passed this stage.

However the mail was stating that there was no slot available at the moment for the next stage (simulator assessment).

Just to know, is there anyone here who is in the same position? Any idea about when these slots might be released? Anyone already invited for the upcoming sim assessment? During the lunch break at Waterside, we were told that the sim assessments would probably be in June but it seems that they are busy now, with all the applications received.

By the way, I would be more than happy to keep in touch with the persons who did their interview + group exercise on the 21st May or similar period. Feel free to send me an email. Would be nice to have a chat.

Thanks a lot in advance.

You can’t use the Private Messaging system, add url links or images until you have an established posting history.

[hans brinker]

This is just plain wrong. I'm a newly qualified European pilot, married to an American so have the right to work in both the EU & US, so I've looked into this.

The main difference is that newly qualified cadets such as myself, rightly or wrongly, can get into the right hand seat of a commercial air liner with <200 hours. In the US (not sure on Canada) you have to do 1000 odd hours of instructing/crop dusting/parachute drops/banner towing for a hell of a lot less than a Ryanair FO. Ryanair and easyJet have or are ending the temporary/zero hour contracts, they're recognising unions and social security is built into our taxes. Now, I'm not saying their T&Cs are as good as the legacies, but I know where I would much rather do my first 1500 hours. And its my understanding from there you can get into any of the European majors off the street. In the US you have to go through a regional and have a university degree before the Majors will even look at you.

so it seems like ryr is finely being forced to improve, great! Also, yes you need a 4 year degree, but if you do an aviation degree you can get your flight training including ATP theory done during those 4 years, that takes a lot of people more than 2 years in the EU, yes you will not go directly into a legacy, but regional pays better than Ryanair. Maybe things are changing with the Lagacy carriers in the EU, but I personally don’t know any who got hired there unless they were young and did the “approved” school, in the USA people get hired by the mayors and nobody cares what flight school you did. I don’t agree with the requirement for 1500 hours in the USA, flew with enough 200 hr guys to know that won’t make a difference. Having said that, it takes most people a year or so to get enough time after their college (1500 hrs is only for non college flight training), you make $15.000 or go to a LLC in the EU, pay €30.000 for a type rating and get a half year summer contract, (or a 5 year bond, so if you get that job offer, you’re still paying).

[VJW]

When did this turn into a USA vs EU thread?

[hans brinker]

When did this turn into a USA vs EU thread?
Wish I knew?

[SinBin]

Anyway BA DEP recruitment.........Who cares about USA or EU, at BA post Brexit Britain concerns working in neither!

[EMB-145LR]

I would say less than a third of BA's recruitment comes from cadets and new flight school graduates. About 50% are probably DEPs from other airlines and the rest are probably Managed Path pilots leaving the military.

[captain.weird]

Guys what were your scored before going to the day 1 test for verbal reasoning?

[DDobinpilot]

Mixed, sometimes good, sometimes bad. I would concentrate on finding a method of doing the questions as quickly as possible. When I was doing the practice ones I would read the whole passage then answer the questions, but I found this quite slow going as I'd end up rereading the passage about 3 or 4 times during the question answering process. I found it better to read the question then look in the passage for an answer as it usually was contained within one sentence.

[wiggy]

Ladies/Gents...

I'll just chuck this into the mix for prospective joiners because I suspect some of you will no doubt be planning to "commute" to/from LHR, perhaps on a frequent basis...

Current inmates are aware that BA carried out an audit of peoples pre work travel arrangements a month or two back...the assurance given was that the idea was only to weed out and perhaps warn those who obviously fancied themselves as some later day Marco Polo.. . It now seems BA have perhaps taken a very hard line with a few and are going to sanction those who they feel have been, to use the phrase being thrown around a lot in this context.."taking the @@@@" with their travel plans.

Unfortunately ATM we have no idea as to exactly what the company are defining as "taking the @@@@" , i.e. at present we have no idea of the position of the line between what BA management think is acceptable and what they think is unacceptable in terms of a journey prior to report.....

So the point of this post is to warn that if asked at interview: "if we offer you a job where will you live? " ..the best answer might be: "Well, Windsor might be nice, but a bit expensive..but I've always fancied Hounslow or Longford"...

Once we've got a handle on what BA regard as acceptable I (or I'm sure somebody else) will post it here...

.

[Pickled]

The net seems to be closing in on commuters who normally travel more than 90 minutes to work, by any mode of transport. BA may now effectively require these employees to position closer to LHR the day before a duty and stay overnight (at their own expense) to ensure they are seen to be adequately rested before report. An EASA recommendation may be implemented as a requirement.

The roster pattern, even on long haul, is trending towards only 2 days off between trips. This travel requirement could mean very few nights at home for those that live outside a normal 90 minute journey time.

Once BA management start a drive towards a goal they normally get what they want. Anyone considering joining BA should plan on a requirement to live within 90 minutes travelling time of report.

[groundbum]

BA probably woke up to the so called Marco Polo's :p when their Pilot got arrested for being drunk before a LH at Gatwick, and it turned out he'd commuted from JNB the night before! Shades of the ATR42 crash in Buffalo where the pilots commuted from all over the US then slept in crew room chairs. The NTSB was less than imprssed at the time.

G

[cessnapete]

The long commute has been going on for a long time in BA. Some 20 odd years ago as a junior B744 Capt. I turned up for a Dtw trip and was joined by the co-pilot at briefing. (2 pilot sector) First he got up my nose moaning about going to Dtw, he was very senior and spent his time in high allowance trips to Hkg and Nrt etc.
At top of climb out, I noticed his eyes drooping and less than total concentration. On asking if he felt OK, he said he was very tired as he had arrived overnight from Newark USA where he lived, on the jump seat, and 4 hours before our flight. !! I wasn't impressed.

[Pickled]

90 minutes is not a long commute to LHR. It is still uncertain exactly how this will be resolved, but it is clear that anyone thinking of joining should very seriously consider where they may need to live.

[wiggy]

90 minutes is not a long commute to LHR. It is still uncertain exactly how this will be resolved, but it is clear that anyone thinking of joining should very seriously consider where they may need to live.




Yep...On another forum some kind individual posted a map showing the 90 minute (driving) isochrone ( no, I hadn't until then either...) centered on LHR....I think that must have come as a shock to more than few..

Link to the charting website here..

https://app.traveltimeplatform.com/#

[bex88]

My commute takes about 1:10 - 1:15 most of the time but according to that map I am not within 90 minutes. More to the point if BA are so concerned why do they continue to roster me trips with the minimum time at base. 12hr 30 minus the 3 hours commuting (still within the rules you see) 9:30 rest really........strangely they are not bothered about that. Secondly who if anyone will be within 90 minutes when they dig up the M25 to build the third runway. Probably not an issue as we will all be retired but it’s a thought.

[GKOC41]

My commute takes about 1:10 - 1:15 most of the time but according to that map I am not within 90 minutes. More to the point if BA are so concerned why do they continue to roster me trips with the minimum time at base. 12hr 30 minus the 3 hours commuting (still within the rules you see) 9:30 rest really........strangely they are not bothered about that. Secondly who if anyone will be within 90 minutes when they dig up the M25 to build the third runway. Probably not an issue as we will all be retired but it’s a thought.
bex88
They are not worried about you they are worried about long distance commuters (albeit you could argue is that 90 mins by road or plane?)
The sleepy scientists will tell you there is no difference driving another 90 minutes for 3 hours rather than watching Eastenders and Coronation Street then driving 90 mins.
What they will be looking for is unreasonable commuting e.g. over night as per the previous comments, or long distance then hanging around in crew rooms etc.
It can't be any coincidence that the two (may have changed) UK AOC's with approved FRMS both have commuting protocols with their Crew members.
What "they" want from you is for "we" BA and you as a crewmember being concerned about your colleague having commuted all night/day then undertaking long FDP / delays / bad weather at destination etc.
My own personal opinion is that the majority of BA crew members manage their commuting, as always it's the usual 5% that Airline management spend 95% of their time dealing with (probably even less at BA)

[Mister Geezer]

Short of putting electronic tags on the ankles of BA pilots, it's nigh on impossible for the company to monitor ones travel movements to such a degree. Commuters will still commute and there has been a recommendation in CAP371 long before EASA was created, that suggested that travel time should be limited to 90 mins and this has been causally overlooked by some for a long time.

The only source of information that BA could access with ease, is ones use of their staff travel and especially on BA flights. However if you booked a standby ticket on another airline, would BA have easy access to the listing history without involving the other airline? Those not using staff travel or traveling by road will still have a great degree of carte blanche with how they choose to plan their journey to LHR, with them being totally off the radar, so to speak.

There has been a large degree of trust placed by airlines that their pilots professionalism will extend to how they plan their travel arrangements to work, however trust is really all they can exercise. I can't see this changing anytime soon at BA or any other airline for that matter.

[RexBanner]

The net seems to be closing in on commuters who normally travel more than 90 minutes to work, by any mode of transport......Anyone considering joining BA should plan on a requirement to live within 90 minutes travelling time of report.

More realistically translated as; BA has a bee in its bonnet at the moment about commuting which it has monitored for a short period of time in order to satisfy the regulator that they are taking the issue seriously. BA has gone through the motions and made all the right noises after which a blind eye will be turned (because realistically they can do nothing else) until the next auditing period with the same results. Rinse and repeat.

[wiggy]

More realistically translated as; BA has a bee in its bonnet at the moment about commuting ....

From what I've heard it is not just "commuting" from home to work that BA have taken a dislike to. I'm not sure if you've seen the latest newsletter/headsup about this out of BALPA but it seems the company has also taken issue with some end of holiday travel arrangments/timings.. " Not quite sure what the problem is but it may be BA's handling/understanding of the EASA rules regarding acclimatisation.

In any event it does seem BA have found an excuse to really look hard at any use of Staff Travel by crew members, whether you are off duty or even on leave...

[RexBanner]

Other airlines have already flagged this issue, Wiggy but it’s been found that it’s legally unenforceable because it violates the EU working time directive mandating that work must not impact upon your leave.

[wiggy]

Other airlines have already flagged this issue, Wiggy but it’s been found that it’s legally unenforceable because it violates the EU working time directive mandating that work must not impact upon your leave.




Yep, I heard ( and I guess you did too) that opinion expressed when "we" brought in EASA FTLs at BA - Given the language used when the company incorporated the rules into the Ops manual (not staying silent on an issue, the use of "should"/"would"/"must") some aspects of the rules have the potential to impinge on leave. I know it suited some in the office (both at BA and at BALPA) to leave it as a grey area because of the implications for the company of being seen to control leave days and the BALPA classic of "don't ask a question if you think you might like the answer...unfortunately for both sides it looks like the audit has shone a light on exactly this issue and some individuals have ended up in the doo daahh...

What do you reckon the solution is? Flying crew (flight and cabin) wanting to use their two weeks leave for a two week holiday simply having to take that time off in Europe/Africa/ the Gulf only...or the company granting extra leave/wrap days for travelling, or the company having a rewrite of the FTLs??:E

( Edit to add: Anyone wondering what this has to do with DEP recruitment - BA have been quite happy to use the staff travel package, and/or the ability to "commute" by air", as a recruitment carrot....)

[hunterboy]

Just to clarify any confusion that some people may have, it is the fact that BA were interpreting the EASA rules to say you had to be acclimatized to your home base at report for your next duty. If you had been on holiday on the West coast or down in Oz say, you would need potentially 5 nights at base to acclimatize. That would have to come off your holiday time. In addition, due to the vagaries of staff travel, even when confirmed, you couldn’t cut it too fine, and would have to allow a day or so leeway. That could mean, a 2 week holiday actually only being 1 week away.
Thankfully, someone in BA saw sense and there’s was a shift in interpretation to you only have to be able to legally operate your next duty after your holiday in a non acclimatized state.

[RexBanner]

Word on the street (as others have stated before and confirmed by discussion with DFO) is that this is purely about a hardcore minority of long haul commuters positioning themselves overnight then reporting to duty same day as arrival at Heathrow. If that’s true I can’t see much of a problem with the company’s attitude unless it’s the thin end of the wedge and they start coming after everybody else. I can’t see that’s realistic though given that greater than three quarters of BA crew probably commute in some form or another (ie outside the 90 minutes) and that BA’s own 2 hour to the car park call out time on reserve contravenes what it technically means to be rested in OMA.

[Buter]

Other airlines have already flagged this issue, Wiggy but it’s been found that it’s legally unenforceable because it violates the EU working time directive mandating that work must not impact upon your leave.
Shoot me a link to that if you have it handy, dude.

B

[GKOC41]

Other airlines have already flagged this issue, Wiggy but it’s been found that it’s legally unenforceable because it violates the EU working time directive mandating that work must not impact upon your leave.
Not heard of that one it's also likely that BA crew have more leave than the WTD minimum.
2 things to remember.
BA have to protect the BA brand.
BA have a duty to protect their Staff members.
Its now covered in both Operator and Crew members responsibilities.
The biggest risk for many crew members is not whilst on duty, but the drive home.
Commuting becomes an issue for all commuters when an individual f@@ks it up.

[RexBanner]

it's also likely that BA crew have more leave than the WTD minimum.

Irrelevant as this impinges on every potential leave block, the legislation does not cease to apply if you have greater than a set amount of leave. Trust me, this came up at easyJet in particular. The legislation exists and, although I post an inordinate amount on pprune, I’m not quite sad enough (yet) to be trawling through relevant EU Directives to post links on pprune in my time off. It’s there though, if you fancy you can do the spade work and have a look.

[Hussar 54]

Other airlines have already flagged this issue, Wiggy but it’s been found that it’s legally unenforceable because it violates the EU working time directive mandating that work must not impact upon your leave.


Just to say that the rumour mill for a long time has had it that almost 50 % of LH's LH crews live in Majorca.....

Same thing here - everyone reckons, and I've no reason to doubt it, that the first few departures out of NCE, MRS and TLN every morning are more than 50% AF staff commuting up to CDG and ORY...

Just saying - because of it suits AF and LH, then It's highly unlikely to legally impact BA crews in the future....

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

Blimey.....I saw the initial notice about this last week (or was it an email?).....anyway.....all getting a bit heavy this isn't it!

Thanks for the link Wiggy, I've just had a look and found I'm just inside the magic 90 minute net. Do we think this is a case of a few idiots spoiling it for everyone else or is this just BA being heavy handed? Didn't like the tone of what I read from the company at all.

Having commuted by air in a previous airline many moons ago I know how tough it is trying to keep the plates spinning. There were a few back then that took the p*** and in the end it nearly ruined it for the rest of us. Luckily the CC got involved and came up with a sensible solution with the company. Hopefully this will get resolved without public executions on the T5 roundabout!



Yep...On another forum some kind individual posted a map showing the 90 minute (driving) isochrone ( no, I hadn't until then either...) centered on LHR....I think that must have come as a shock to more than few..

Link to the charting website here..

https://app.traveltimeplatform.com/#

[hunterboy]

I think the last execution would be the manager that stirred up this hornets nest. I can imagine many crew following the letter of the EASA regs and OMA and the operation grinding to a halt, especially down route at disturbed rest in hotels.

[Flightrider]

The EASA FTL issue in relation to leave has been tested with the CAA by another airline where the same question had arisen. The definitions of this in ORO.FTL.105 are quite specific in that you can only move between conditions of acclimatisation and non-acclimatisation via a duty, which is then defined as a task that the crew member performs for the operator. You therefore cannot become non acclimatised as a result of travel around your leave under the EASA FTL scheme and so insisting on the full minimum time at base after leisure travel is not a requirement. Clearly none of this removes the individual crew member's responsibilities (ORO.FTL.115) to be adequately rested before their duty and to plan and use their rest before a duty. However, any operator seeking to impose MTB between a period of leave and your next duty is on a very sticky wicket.

Commuting covers the same, but there can be no question that some current commuting practices of which I think we've probably all seen examples over the years are pretty outrageous. I always used to suggest that if you had to explain your movements over the last 24 hours over the PA to your passengers then if you could do so without all of them wanting to get off your aircraft as a result of what you'd just told them, you were probably on the side of reasonableness. I can't imagine many passengers staying seated to fly with you if you'd just arrived four hours earlier from a commute in from the US. Your colleagues probably wouldn't be too chuffed either. The folk who turned up and demanded first rest in the bunk due to the length of their journey to work were taking the p*** out of their colleagues, I always thought.

[angelo26]

Hi all!
On july the 3rd I had my assessment day 1 and I passed it.
I received a mail stating that no slots were available for day 2 and that they will be in touch with me soon.
Any idea how long could take that?

Regards

Angelo26

[VJW]

Angelo how is it you were waiting for a day 3 simulator assessment December 2016, and now you're being made to start everything again? I thought you passed then and had entered the pool?!

[klm1234]

Hi all!
On july the 3rd I had my assessment day 1 and I passed it.
I received a mail stating that no slots were available for day 2 and that they will be in touch with me soon.
Any idea how long could take that?

Regards

Angelo26

I am waiting as well! I passed mine on the 2nd of July!

[angelo26]

Angelo how is it you were waiting for a day 3 simulator assessment December 2016, and now you're being made to start everything again? I thought you passed then and had entered the pool?!

Hi!
Unfortunately i didn't passed the sim assessment and yes I have to do everything from the beginning.

Regards

Angelo26

[Bjdm18]

Hi all!
On july the 3rd I had my assessment day 1 and I passed it.
I received a mail stating that no slots were available for day 2 and that they will be in touch with me soon.
Any idea how long could take that?

Regards

Angelo26

Hi gents!

Recently completed my day 1 assessment. Does anyone know when you’ll get the result?

Cheers!

[Mizar]

Hi All,

any recommendations on where to stay around lhr b&b, guest houses and so on for the ground school of the training.

cheers
mizar

[NLP]

Hi Mizar,

I would reccomend the Premier Inn at terminal 4. It's the most convenient option imo. Get yourself a business account and the standby rate is £51,-. If you're lucky and book early you can get the non-flexible rate for £29,- (that's not via the business website). It's a 20 min walk to the training centre or 5 mins by car/bus. Rooms on 2nd and 3rd floor have fridges and irons.

[wiggy]

I think Mizar will need his/her BA e-mail account to be up and running before he can get a business account..and I’d second the advice about checking the general public rates before making a business booking.

[fullhouse]

Hi,

Does anyone know if on joining BA you are issued a company flight/nav bag?

Cheers

[FullWings]

Hi,

Does anyone know if on joining BA you are issued a company flight/nav bag?

Cheers
Not now as far as I’m aware (I did get given a plastic one 28 years ago, so standards are slipping ;))

You do get a company iPad, which is much lighter considering the amount of charts it contains...

[Thegreenmachine]

Has anyone been invited for a sim assessment? Please send me a PM if so.

[wiggy]

Hi,

Does anyone know if on joining BA you are issued a company flight/nav bag?



I’ll admit for some reason :oh: that comment made me chuckle....

As has been said you get issued an iPad and a uniform, luggage etc is down to the individual...

[VinRouge]

I’ll admit for some reason :oh: that comment made me chuckle....

As has been said you get issued an iPad and a uniform, luggage etc is down to the individual...


you can claim tax back on flight cases as it's a business expense. Same with any active noise reduction headphones for use whilst deadheading or in augmented rest. Sun glasses too.

Speak to.your Balpa rep.

[overstress]

VinRouge, I think that's covered by the BALPA negotiated FREA (Fixed Rate Expense Allowance) - no individual items will be claimable. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

[wiggy]

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim50051

(BA provide noise cancelling headsets on the flight deck)

As far as flight cases and HMRC are concerned, like overstress I've always thought that was covered by the FREA : "the industry wide FRE for airline pilots, and other flight deck crew (see EIM50052 (https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim50052)) does not include anything for items of normal luggage, although the pilot’s flight case is included"... that's from:

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim50055

[angelo26]

Hi all,
I have just booked stage 2.

P.s.
I have a UK CAA issued licence but I want to renew my type rating in Italy with an Italian SFE.
Do you know what forms and what documents will be requested by the UK CAA.

Sorry for the Offtopic.

Regards,

Angelo26

[GetTheQRH]

The BA website list all their salaries as 'Competitive' which makes it hard to try and make any sort of judgement on when deciding to move there from another airline.

Does anyone know what the Year 1 DEP FO (probably LGW) salary is? PilotJobsNetwork says £58,864 but not entirely sure how accurate this is.
TIA

[Dupre]

The BA website list all their salaries as 'Competitive' which makes it hard to try and make any sort of judgement on when deciding to move there from another airline.

Does anyone know what the Year 1 DEP FO (probably LGW) salary is? PilotJobsNetwork says £58,864 but not entirely sure how accurate this is.
TIA

That figure is very accurate.

[cessnapete]

I have a mate DEP on LH type LHR based, joined couple or so years ago. Nearer £70G now with all the add ons.

[RexBanner]

Repeating Dupre’s Post the figure is very accurate. Yes all in you’re potentially looking at over £70k but that very much depends on many factors now that they’ve taken away the fixed flying pay. For instance sickness, multiple reserve periods that aren’t particularly busy, months with leave and/or pre-assignments, they’ll all dent your take home. Plus if you’re looking to buy a property you can forget borrowing against the variable elements of the salary any more (at least not until you’ve been with the company for two years and can produce twelve months of payslips and even then banks will only take into account half of it). So that figure is very relevant despite being seduced by the extras.

[8029848s]

It would take you 28 years in BA to break even with Easyjet in terms of total income based on time scale to command as it stands.

All depends on what you want from life / a job.

BA is not the answer for all.

[EllanVannin]

It would take you 28 years in BA to break even with Easyjet in terms of total income based on time scale to command as it stands.

.

Absolute nonsense.

You can make all kinds of assumptions about things like time to command, time to long haul, whether you should include the roughly 1000 GBP/month downroute allowances BA pilots get paid that easyjet guys to not, the fact the BA total pension contribution is around 50% higher than easyjet, easyjet loyalty bonus, money earned per actual day at work etc. We could argue those things till we are bored to tears. Lies, damned lies and statistics (and all that). Frankly you can argue it both ways.

However, how on earth you came up with 28 years to break even takes some doing.

[geardown1]

Hey guys, does anyone know how long they take for any initial response, after the submitting CV part? I got the immediate email to say the application was in, but is there a standard response time?

Thanks!

[RexBanner]

Not on PP34 you don’t.

[8029848s]

Its not rocket science guys...use excel......2/3 years to a command in Easy Jet Ryanair, considerably longer in BA to achieve the four figures in BA which is actually on SH command below the others carriers and yes...bingo...28 years plus or minus.

Ok the pension in BA is slightly better but we are almost identical on BA SH in terms of hours / productivity than Easy Jet / Ryanair.

If you live in the regions, even Jet2 makes more sense unless you crave long haul...in which join Virgin and have 5 days rather than 1/2 off before your next flight in BA.

Trust me...at the present caps, and we are 400 pilots short, you are highly likely to be ill, fatigued, or divorced in BA if things continue as they are.

[SinBin]

It’s not that bad at BA, shall we steer the thread back to BA DEP recruitment as opposed an easy v ba v jet2 thread, there are other places for that. If it’s money you’re after go and fly in China. BA has a new CC, so things may or may not get interesting over the next few months. DEP recruitment opened up again, now requiring just 100 sectors with a TR which satisfies the ZFT requirement. This may or may not be less than 500 hours.

[RexBanner]

unless you crave long haul...in which join Virgin and have 5 days rather than 1/2 off before your next flight in BA.

Maybe on the 787 with all the engine issues at the moment. Certainly not true for the guys on the A330 and this is before all the issues with the 787 engines kicked off. Trip two days off, trip two days off was certainly true for the Airbus roster that I saw at VS. Plus do you really think it’s a secure place to work now Branson has sold it? Even when he owned it if you were bouncing around the bottom of the seniority list you were in dire peril whenever someone so much as sneezed on Wall St.

[bex88]

I have been looking at the whole BA/EZY deal for a while. I ran the figures a few days ago and it takes 21 years at BA to match the basic at EZY including their loyalty bonus. (SH Captain on PP34) Allowances are roughly similar so forget that one. The difference is pension. BA offer me 16.5% (avc’s you see) where EZY offer you 7%. Essentially BA pay a lower basic but your pension or deferred pay is greater. If I were to change one thing about my position it would be to live closer to Heathrow. The commute is crap but honestly I can’t live around London. That leaves a commute. It’s only just over an hour but it’s a ball ache. Live near London I would take BA. Live near a regional airport I would take a LOCO with the hope of a base move one day. BA is a good company generally but if you are not fussed with LH or don’t like living out of a suit case or a Van in a truck stop then there are better options.

Saw that managed path has opened which is great news.

[3Greens]

virgin has 750 hour annual limit, so there’s a slight advantage there. Absolute gold dust that kind of contract these day.

[Barcli]

bex88 said "Saw that managed path has opened which is great news. "
Whats that then ?

[wiggy]

It’s the specific pathway/scheme for those joining from the military (and yes I agree with bex...it is good news)...

https://careers.ba.com/military-scheme

[zero/zero]

virgin has 750 hour annual limit, so there’s a slight advantage there. Absolute gold dust that kind of contract these day.

And then last year they posted a loss in pretty favourable industry conditions. We’ll see how long the contract lasts

[4engines4longhaul]

Well the 750 limit has been here for the 22 years I have been at Virgin, and management have stated they are quite happy with this arrangement

[Dupre]

Bringing the thread back to BA DEP issues.....

I'd like to add a couple of links that might be useful for anyone going to a simulator assessment, if you have never seen a Lido chart before. (in the sim, I found the assessors to be really helpful, but I still found it useful to know where to look on the chart for critical things like MSA, DA/MDA etc).

Approach charts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_ICV95idqU

SIDs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAp3X8veYYo&index=6&list=PLlb9XFrolmioKc-UCL92uKeNpK03SGaQC

STARs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQcS0TAzQgU&index=3&list=PLlb9XFrolmioKc-UCL92uKeNpK03SGaQC

[zero/zero]

Has any in the latest recruitment drive been offered start dates or is it still long term swimmers?

[RexBanner]

All I know is we need you guys on board ASAP. Caps ridiculously high for months now.

[SinBin]

And the more we get, the better it becomes!

[hunterboy]

Dupre...Many thanks for the links to the Lido videos. There was more tuition there than I received from BA on
the use of the Lido charts. I certainly learnt a thing or two.

[captain.weird]

Has any in the latest recruitment drive been offered start dates or is it still long term swimmers?

Are there a lot of swimmers now then?

[pilotting]

Hi guys,
Been browsing the internet, but could not get any info on the BA rosters.
Can anyone tell how many days you can expect to be off on LH and SH per month?
I assume this will also differ in summer season and winter season?

Thanks!

[bex88]

Pilloting: now there is a question. Extreme answer followed by a realistic one. CAP is 90hrs and minimum credit per day is 4:30 so if you are junior doing the crap nobody else wants then you will see 10 days off. If your senior and picking exactly what you want (JSS supposedly will allow this with some built in safe guards designed by BALPA to ensure fairness ��....yeah right) you could reach CAP in about 10-12 days. Ok the reality is probably somewhere in the middle. 12 days off if your junior and perhaps 15 days off if your senior and you bid for max credit trips.

Thats SH. Cannot really comment on LH too much. But some working days LH start at 8 or 9 in the evening or end at 6-7 in the morning so it can throw it out a bit. It’s like a night DME on SH. I don’t view it as two days work but officially it is

[pilotting]

Thanks Bex88! really helpful!

[G SXTY]

At the risk of getting lynched by my SH colleagues, my junior LH roster has around 14 days off, plus or minus a couple. That said, my fleet is having a relatively quiet period due to certain, ahem, technical issues – I can’t speak for the triple or jumbo guys.

And while some LH ‘days’ might finish at 0800, I’m usually so knackered that the rest of that day is a write-off, and often the following day as well.

[WhatTheDeuce]

Short haul junior trash - Above CAP and 13 days off in August and only one evening where I won’t be having dinner at home with my family. Pretty standard month, definitely can’t complain about lifestyle. (Although I probably will)

Pay could be better and I’ve got high hopes for the new BACC, feel like the tide has turned and we’ve got great expectations of what can be achieved if we’re prepared to get behind them.

[Enzo999]

Short haul junior trash - Above CAP and 13 days off in August and only one evening where I won’t be having dinner at home with my family. Pretty standard month, definitely can’t complain about lifestyle. (Although I probably will)

Pay could be better and I’ve got high hopes for the new BACC, feel like the tide has turned and we’ve got great expectations of what can be achieved if we’re prepared to get behind them.

Gatwick I guess?

[WhatTheDeuce]

Heathrow. Clean slate after JSS comes in though, as far as lifestyle goes watch this space I guess?

[RexBanner]

I wouldn’t worry too much about JSS just yet. I don’t think we’re even close to its implementation right now. Not enough pilots, software issues plus the elephant in the room of the BMI zippering issue which isn’t even close to getting resolved. I honestly wouldn’t be at all surprised if we’re sat here this time next year still using bidline.

[clvf88]

Has anyone else been waiting several weeks for a sim assessment dates to be released?

[overstress]

Hi guys,
Been browsing the internet, but could not get any info on the BA rosters.
Can anyone tell how many days you can expect to be off on LH and SH per month?
I assume this will also differ in summer season and winter season?

Thanks!

Would have said in LH there's not really a seasonal difference in how hard you work - on my fleet it's simple - flat out all the time :ugh:

[wiggy]

Would have said in LH there's not really a seasonal difference in how hard you work - on my fleet it's simple - flat out all the time :ugh:

Yep.....

As for JSS, much as many would like to see it’s introduction delayed I suspect the quite reasonable gripes from the troops won’t change a thing. I hope I am wrong but I suspect once recruitment and training have got enough bods on the line it will be introduced faster than a rat up a drainpipe....and then to borrow a phrase, it’s “posh blindlines” for everybody.

[g118]

Has anyone else been waiting several weeks for a sim assessment dates to be released?

Same condition. 3 weeks no news yet. 2nd day at the end of June.

[RexBanner]

I suspect once recruitment and training have got enough bods on the line it will be introduced faster than a rat up a drainpipe....

I hear you, Wiggy but the BMI zippering issue needs to be resolved first. The two parties are absolutely miles apart at the moment, there no easy solution that’s going to satisfy both parties and I would suspect it ain’t going to get resolved any time soon. Even without zippering of BMI Pilots we already have strong suspicions (if not confirmation) JSS isn’t going to come in by the end of the year because of the difficulties of introducing around Christmas. By the time they get enough bods on the line that’s gonna be edging towards summer 2019 and the company will again be nervous around introducing it at a time that potentially compromises rostering over the summer (as they were this time around). It’s not necessarily hope over expectation.

[iburnthings]

Been invited for stage 2 interview/group assessment, been reading through every page of this thread to get prepared but was wondering if anyone has attended recently and got any recent updates?

[wiggy]

the BMI zippering issue needs to be resolved first. The two parties are absolutely miles apart at the moment, there no easy solution that’s going to satisfy both parties and I would suspect it ain’t going to get resolved any time soon.

And lo, in the space of 24 hours the plan (from AB's e-mail) is to launch JSS ASAP with a dual list for the 320 ......

[bex88]

Nice! the junior BMI guys get stuffed. That said even the senior ones too. Join at the bottom and stay at the bottom for your entire career. No progression from a rostering stand point. No choice, low to no roster satisfaction and all enforced by BALPA. I even took this up with AB and all I got was a shrug of the shoulders.

[wiggy]

I won't pretend that I have followed the zipper debate in minute detail but I do know it was a source of great angst (putting it politely) among many long served BA shorthaulers so there are obviously two sides to that debate. I got the impression from AB's e-mail that running with a dual list wasn't exactly something the company wanted to do and it was something that was going to be subject to continued negotiation...

More interesting (to me anyhow) is the fact that management are willing to back down slightly/temporarily on this issue, which was a blocker to introducing the new rostering system, and accept the hassle of two lists, all in order to get rid of Bidline and get JSS up and running quickly....you'd almost think management think there is something in it for them :E

[BASHLH]

Nice! the junior BMI guys get stuffed. That said even the senior ones too. Join at the bottom and stay at the bottom for your entire career. No progression from a rostering stand point. No choice, low to no roster satisfaction and all enforced by BALPA. I even took this up with AB and all I got was a shrug of the shoulders.

Steady on bex... all EMBA as it were have had the choice from day 1 to go to LH in the RHS, continue in the LHS or take up until recently out of seniority protected commands. In fact all the Commands this & last year were protected... only 2016 saw it drop to & past their seniority. Not bad considering they joined BA in 2012 having commands & RHS LH since day one, whilst others senior to them had to sit out their 5 year engagement freeze. But I like others didn’t complain as it was the deal that was signed. If they’re junior & in the bubble that’s their choice! Could have gone to LH & be nearly 50% for example on the jumbo.... & if I’m not mistaken it was the bmi list that chose to turn down the last zipper solution not the BA list.... Not a bmi bash but let’s state the facts, most feel they’ve done very well. It’s the same for BA guys, was on the bus the other day & a junior BA SH skipper was complaining he’d gone down 3 or 4% & it wasn’t fair.... we’ll could have gone to LH.... his choice, you only have to be junior once!

Anyway back to the thread... good luck to those applying.

[Tay Cough]

Steady on bex... all EMBA as it were have had the choice from day 1 to go to LH in the RHS, continue in the LHS or take up until recently out of seniority protected commands. In fact all the Commands this & last year were protected... only 2016 saw it drop to & past their seniority. Not bad considering they joined BA in 2012 having commands & RHS LH since day one, whilst others senior to them had to sit out their 5 year engagement freeze. But I like others didn’t complain as it was the deal that was signed. If they’re junior & in the bubble that’s their choice! Could have gone to LH & be nearly 50% for example on the jumbo.... & if I’m not mistaken it was the bmi list that chose to turn down the last zipper solution not the BA list.... Not a bmi bash but let’s state the facts, most feel they’ve done very well. It’s the same for BA guys, was on the bus the other day & a junior BA SH skipper was complaining he’d gone down 3 or 4% & it wasn’t fair.... we’ll could have gone to LH.... his choice, you only have to be junior once!

Anyway back to the thread... good luck to those applying.



The trouble is, the EMBA FOs, who got their commands based on their ACTUAL seniority (nothing to do with BMI), were forced back into the BMI bubble against their will. Why is that allowed?

[8029848s]

Bex88.... No choice, low to no roster satisfaction and all enforced by BALPA. I even took this up with AB and all I got was a shrug of the shoulders.

I think you will find Bex88, Balpa have done exactly what they are there to do...consult members, ballot, and when no agreement was reached escalate this as a failure to agree with the company.

Bigger battles ahead, such as the up coming pay negotiations, which will have a far greater effect on the careers and lives of all the pilots within BA.

Maybe this is why Flt Ops capitutaled on it??

[BASHLH]

The trouble is, the EMBA FOs, who got their commands based on their ACTUAL seniority (nothing to do with BMI), were forced back into the BMI bubble against their will. Why is that allowed?

I couldn’t agree with you more Tay... they should be in the BA list, especially if they want to be! I’m sure I’ve read somewhere some pony about MPE to maintain circa 145.... it’s all political & the initials IG I bet have all to do with it!

Good luck to those applying.

[RexBanner]

Makes no difference to you Kendrick, it only affects the ex BMI captains and all of them are senior to you wherever they end up anyway. This thread is historically known for thread drift (guilty in that respect myself) so don’t worry too much about it.

Personally I think JSS will be better for Short Haul (virtually no one wants a mixture of daytips and tours which is all 90% of the Triplines are, although it remains to be seen how effectively you can build a roster consisting of either day trips or tours and a lot will depend on seniority/knowing the correct JSS tweaks). I suspect for Long Haul it will be a ****show compared to Bidline, but who knows?

[Deano777]

So is this thread way off track now or is all this relevant?

[wiggy]

The BMI issue and it's ultimate resolution - perhaps, perhaps not.

JSS - well if someone is planning on joining BA because it they have been led to believe it has a "world leading rostering system" then I'd suggest it's introduction in place of Bidline, the lifestyle control it does or doesn't afford, and the sort rosters it will produce are highly relevant to a recruitment thread..

[Deano777]

Yes, wiggy, I was alluding to the bmi issue. I'd like to think pilots were joining for a collective number of reasons rather than specifically the rostering system but clearly that's subjective and highly individual.

[clvf88]

JSS - well if someone is planning on joining BA because it they have been led to believe it has a "world leading rostering system" then I'd suggest it's introduction in place of Bidline, the lifestyle control it does or doesn't afford, and the sort rosters it will produce are highly relevant to a recruitment thread..

Wiggy - with a view of bringing this thread back on topic, could you offer a very brief explanation on the difference between the two. I've heard Bidline and JSS mentioned countless times, but I've got no idea on what they are, other than the introduction of JSS seems to be very unpopular. I'm sure it would be appreciated by many, myself very much included!

[RexBanner]

Bidline: essentially the company publish the Trip Lines (each individual line is a roster) 6 weeks or so in advance of the month in question. The pilot workforce then bids for these lines of work in seniority order. So in theory the most senior pilot in the seat in question is effectively writing his own roster as he knows exactly what trips he will be doing and also the days off. Pilots will bid for lines based on weekends off or destinations or, in the case of the most senior, both of these variables hence the notion of writing your own roster. There are only so many trip lines, those who don’t have the required seniority for any of their choices of lines will have their roster written for them by the company with the reconstituted trips of what is left over (blind line).

JSS: No real control whatsoever. You’re just expressing preferences for days off or particular types of trips/destinations but there is no guarantee that you will get any of what you want. It is not anywhere near as transparent as bidline. Still very seniority driven but there will also be inhibitors in place to stop the most senior just going to Cape Town (or insert your own desirable destination) four times a month. There are very real fears that inserting all of these inhibitors will end up in the programme being corrupted away from its original design, see the case of Carmen down in Gatwick where, in an attempt to please everybody, they have ended up with a programme that pleases nobody. That’s why Wiggy and others (including myself) have just described it as posh blindlines as even the most senior will have absolutely no idea what their roster will contain until the day of publication.

So whats new in that, you may perfectly reasonably ask if you’re coming from another airline. Trouble is it’s a severely retrograde step in being able to do what you want when you want and have control over the whole process, something that has been a unique selling point of BA for many years but is about to be a thing of the past.

[Emma Royds]

That’s why Wiggy and others (including myself) have just described it as posh blindlines as even the most senior will have absolutely no idea what their roster will contain until the day of publication.




Which has proven to be the sparkling jewel in the crown for the management of those of us that fly the (black, white, red and green) flag at another legacy carrier. A 'bidding' system as described here can generate questionable satisfaction on a consistent basis. If BA are allowed to 'massage' the roster to enhance productivity, then years of seniority could be worthless, if undesirable trips 'suddenly' appear out the blue, once your roster is published.

It is far harder to fight change, once it has been implemented!

[Paddingtonbear]

Ok, is somebody able to tell me (I'm new to the pool, with alternative options......) what are the benefits of joining BA? I've no interest in LH and the only draw I can honestly see is the ability to do a bit of upper class travel. That, along with the hat doesn't cut it for me.

[clvf88]

Bidline: essentially the company publish the Trip Lines (each individual line is a roster) 6 weeks or so in advance of the month in question. The pilot workforce then bids for these lines of work in seniority order. So in theory the most senior pilot in the seat in question is effectively writing his own roster as he knows exactly what trips he will be doing and also the days off. Pilots will bid for lines based on weekends off or destinations or, in the case of the most senior, both of these variables hence the notion of writing your own roster. There are only so many trip lines, those who don’t have the required seniority for any of their choices of lines will have their roster written for them by the company with the reconstituted trips of what is left over (blind line).

JSS: No real control whatsoever. You’re just expressing preferences for days off or particular types of trips/destinations but there is no guarantee that you will get any of what you want. It is not anywhere near as transparent as bidline. Still very seniority driven but there will also be inhibitors in place to stop the most senior just going to Cape Town (or insert your own desirable destination) four times a month. There are very real fears that inserting all of these inhibitors will end up in the programme being corrupted away from its original design, see the case of Carmen down in Gatwick where, in an attempt to please everybody, they have ended up with a programme that pleases nobody. That’s why Wiggy and others (including myself) have just described it as posh blindlines as even the most senior will have absolutely no idea what their roster will contain until the day of publication.

So whats new in that, you may perfectly reasonably ask if you’re coming from another airline. Trouble is it’s a severely retrograde step in being able to do what you want when you want and have control over the whole process, something that has been a unique selling point of BA for many years but is about to be a thing of the past.

Thank you for taking the time to explain that - much appreciated and very informative :ok:

[Buter]

Ok, is somebody able to tell me (I'm new to the pool, with alternative options......) what are the benefits of joining BA? I've no interest in LH and the only draw I can honestly see is the ability to do a bit of upper class travel. That, along with the hat doesn't cut it for me.
Without a reference, eg, “compared to Ryanair, what are the benefits,” the question is meaningless.

If if you have no interest in long haul, think you’ll do a lot of upper class travel, don’t want to wear the stupid hat and you have other options, hop out of the pool, son, here’s your towel. Seriously, you’ll be miserable here.

As for the “ doesn’t cut it for me” comment... I’m pretty sure our community will be alright without you.

Good luck with with your career, sir.

Cheers

Buter

[zero/zero]

Ok, is somebody able to tell me (I'm new to the pool, with alternative options......) what are the benefits of joining BA? I've no interest in LH and the only draw I can honestly see is the ability to do a bit of upper class travel. That, along with the hat doesn't cut it for me.

Can never understand why you would go through the considerable time and effort of applying if you need someone else to convince you. Not to mention the waste of a interview/sim slot for someone who actually is interested in joining.

They had 1000 applicants in a 2 week recruiting window so they can probably struggle on without you.

[Paddingtonbear]

Thank you for the honest assessment.

[wiggy]

Morning all, Firstly may I commend RexB’s descriptions of both Bidline and JSS to the house....

Paddington..

Unless you have a burning desire to do shorthaul out of London I can’t see why BA would be of interest, though TBF I don’t live the BA shorthaul dream...

As for travelling in Premium cabins.... I’m not sure how the recruiters / advertising sells that benefit but you have a very limited number of those particular tickets and despite everything there are no guarantees about getting on a flight and where you will end up seated (and it can get really difficult if you are travelling as a family ).

Many a staff traveller with First or Club entitlement has ended up on a jumpseat......

[Paddingtonbear]

Thanks Wiggy.

I did put a huge effort into this. In fact, I'm not ashamed to admit it was my fourth attempt. If anything, merely passing this process is satisfying in itself.

I have obviously followed this thread with great interest and ask my original question based on reports from people who are very obviously within BA at the moment, and can tell me how it is.

Cheers and all the best to those applying.

[g118]

Hello everyone, thanks for all of those who post interesting info for the ones of us still in the application process. I’ve been waiting for. sim dates for a month already after receiving a mail telling me I had passed day 2. Anyone in the same condition. Anyone knows if it’s going to be 767 or 747. New to the forum so cannot receive any PM it seems. Any info would be very appreciated. Thanks.

[Dupre]

I believe it's 767 unless advised otherwise.

Just keep checking regularly for slots... they normally go on around 1-3 weeks ahead, and they get taken very quickly.

good luck!

[Dupre]

Question for those in the know... Will A320 LGW migrate to JSS on it's introduction, or will they stay with Carmen?

[RexBanner]

Question for those in the know... Will A320 LGW migrate to JSS on it's introduction, or will they stay with Carmen?

Still Carmen AFAIK.

[Littleoldme]

Hello, may I ask if people going through the interview stage received technical questions or was it just competency based questioning? Thank you in advance��

[binsleepen]

Hi Paddington,

Personally if you have no interest in LH why join what is predominately a LH airline. The grief of doing multiple sectors out of Heathrow on a day in day out basis for a a 40+ year career doesn’t make sense. If you want to be home every night you would be much better off working for an airline outside London where the cost of housing is more reasonable, the commute quicker, time to command generally quicker with associated better pay.

However, the reasons I enjoy LH is the opportunities to visit places that I would never visit on holiday. To take my son with me to Chile to see the penguins in the Tiera Del Fuego or my family to Tokyo after sector swapping to turn a 4 day trip into a 6 day trip. To go whale watching on a 4 day San Francisco trip or visit the Aztec temples in Mexico.

On LH you only need to commute 4 or 5 times a month with the same number of departures and arrivals from Heathrow. Like all jobs there are downsides and frustrations as well, but as an individual you need to work out what your priorities are and then find a job where you will get the greatest percentage satisfaction to live your life.

Regards

[hunterboy]

Good advice above. I know it is obvious to most, but some may need reminding that this is only a way of earning to money to live. If you can make the job work for you and enjoy it at the same time, then you will never work a day in your life.
BA isn’t for everybody. Those that are here seem to enjoy the job, or at least pretend to. The only problem is spending too much time at work enjoying yourself. Hence the old cliché of the BA skipper on his/her third spouse. It can be difficult holding down a home life as the long haul part of the job is great fun, if tiring, staying in pretty decent hotels with like-minded people, especially now legacy crews are on the decline. The danger is it is possible to treat the job as one long holiday, to the detriment of loved ones at home.

[Serenity]

Has the latest open vacancy advert closed already??

[wiggy]

The only problem is spending too much time at work enjoying yourself. Hence the old cliché of the BA skipper on his/her third spouse. It can be difficult holding down a home life as the long haul part of the job is great fun, if tiring, staying in pretty decent hotels with like-minded people, especially now legacy crews are on the decline. The danger is it is possible to treat the job as one long holiday, to the detriment of loved ones at home.






I’m hoping the above is slightly TIC, at least in part...I know it can be “fun” at times but I don’t think I’ve heard the day stop DXB being described as fun, there are other some real "bullets" with almost minimum rest, and the joys of one or two of our ME/African slips....As to the “like minded people” :)..well if it is who I am thinking of they can be a breath of fresh air but they can also sometimes produce some real "duty of care" issues for the senior managers on the crew, who have been known to end up sorting out problems with management and/or medics and/or others at oh’dark thirty in the morning...

I would however agree on balance Long Haul is isn’t a bad gig, and certainly better than SH at BA but it’s not all a bed of roses, and BTW top tip - the trick to being a BA skipper on their first marriage after 30 plus years (and despite rumours and stereotyping there are a lot of us about) is not doing anything stupid and not going home and telling the other half what a fantastic time you just had.. .

[bex88]

I have been pretty negative on BA SH and there are good reasons for that. I then asked myself what is it that I do not like? Is it that I don’t like my job or is it that I just have a really good home life? The problems here are little more than delays due to ATC in Europe, workload and rostering due to a error in manpower planning and BALPA selling out SH to protect LH. A quote from a friend of mine on LH. “Nobody gives a sh&t about SH, it’s never even talked about other than to say they are never going back”. Something has to change. I know a number of captains who are considering going RHS LH to escape. If you only desire SH and being at home BA is not it, if you want options then that’s very different.

It’s easy to piss and moan from a privileged position but on balance there are jobs I have had which I would love to go back too, but BA whilst not perfect is not bad enough to leave either and if JSS destroys my home life (probable) then there are options such as part time.......which I understand Klaus hates and wants to stamp out, or ditching the 4th stripe for RHS LH.

Applications closed? Probably......remember how keen we all used to be.

[RexBanner]

there are options such as part time.......which I understand Klaus hates and wants to stamp out

Klaus can go screw himself. By law BA has to provide part time options. Rather than bitch and moan about it he should consider why so many people (including myself, a soon to be PP4 SH FO and about to put the RTR request in as soon as some home renovations are made) feel they have to go part time in order to make life work..

[hunterboy]

I gather the rumours about restricting part time were to restrict the current numbers. This would mean new part timers having to wait until an existing part timer retired or gave it up. Apparently some other countries run it that way?
Wiggy....it was slightly tongue in cheek.....I was having a good day....usually I’m the guy that retires early to bed to “chill and watch some Netflix”....I manage to avoid the duty of care stuff as I’m nowhere to be seen......:)

[wiggy]

.I manage to avoid the duty of care stuff as I’m nowhere to be seen......https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

very wise.....:ok:

[RexBanner]

I gather the rumours about restricting part time were to restrict the current numbers. This would mean new part timers having to wait until an existing part timer retired or gave it up.
On a temporary basis whilst the crew numbers are low it’s probably the current score until they’ve got more people in but as a permanent long term policy they’d be on an extremely sticky wicket trying that. I’d guess that rumour will remain unrealised.

[hunterboy]

Hopefully the new p/t options with JSS will help with any problems of p/t availability.

[JPJP]

Klaus can go screw himself. By law BA has to provide part time options. Rather than bitch and moan about it he should consider why so many people (including myself, a soon to be PP4 SH FO and about to put the RTR request in as soon as some home renovations are made) feel they have to go part time in order to make life work..




Wow.

The name ‘Klaus’ is very familiar. I thought that it couldn’t possibly be the same one. It is. And the same trail spreads itself across three countries, and four airlines.

It’s an ill wind that blows.

[SandwichOfficer]

Another email today from BA asking me to book my interview, but still no slots - I checked 1 hour after the email was sent. Were there any available today?

[Thegreenmachine]

Another email today from BA asking me to book my interview, but still no slots - I checked 1 hour after the email was sent. Were there any available today?

Checked this morning myself and didn’t have any available.

[SandwichOfficer]

was that for an interview slot or a sim slot?

interview slot

[clvf88]

Another email today from BA asking me to book my interview, but still no slots - I checked 1 hour after the email was sent. Were there any available today?
Did stage II at the beginning of July. I've logged in to check literally hundreds of times between now and then but no sim slots available.

[Thegreenmachine]

was that for an interview slot or a sim slot?
Apologies. Yes I’m waiting to book a sim, not an interview.

[g118]

Did stage II at the beginning of July. I've logged in to check literally hundreds of times between now and then but no sim slots available.

Same situation. It seems No slots have been loaded yet.

[Raven86]

Hi all,

i have passed stage 1 and will be hopefully booking stage 2 very soon. Has anyone passed/gone through stage 2 and could offer some insight, particularly on the personal interview?
much appreciated.

[Mansnothot]

Another email today from BA asking me to book my interview, but still no slots - I checked 1 hour after the email was sent. Were there any available today?

Its an automated system mate, there haven’t been any sim slots released for at least 5 weeks. Only 1 slot opened up for the 21st of August because a guy I know cancelled his. And it was gone in a minute. Just keep checking!

[cycles gladiator]

Some slots out for September.

[Mansnothot]

Some slots out for September.

Yeah got a text from my mate this morning, luckily got myself booked in for 13/9. Happy days. Hope you all got a date in too!

[g118]

Some slots out for September.

:ok: Good luck to everyone in the process, last step. Anyone with info on how long is the wait in the pool.

[Mansnothot]

:ok: Good luck to everyone in the process, last step. Anyone with info on how long is the wait in the pool.

Ive heard there’s currently about 40 people in the pool and they will only be in there while they get dates and classes formed.

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

:ok: Good luck to everyone in the process, last step. Anyone with info on how long is the wait in the pool.

According to recent internal comms, the hold pool has been emptied, refilled, emptied again and is gradually being added to. In short, the demand is definitely there so I would expect a short dip in the pond if that. I think it's purely a training capacity issue.

Best of luck!

[klm1234]

How long did it take to get the results of stage 2 ?

[clvf88]

How long did it take to get the results of stage 2 ?

1 week, to the day.

[Raven86]

1 week, to the day.


could you guys guys shed any light on stage 2?

[Raven86]

Got an email this morning apologizing for the delay of the result of stage 2, and to expect it by tomorrow at the latest (did stage 2 last tuesday)

how did it go Kendrick?

[Danny212]

Any junior FO's SH care to share current take home pay? I know its variable based on X, Y and Z. But a rough figure would be great based on the summer months.

[Enzo999]

Any junior FO's SH care to share current take home pay? I know its variable based on X, Y and Z. But a rough figure would be great based on the summer months.

About £4500 to £4700 in busy summer months, £3900 to £4100 in quieter months. (Little over time included in these figures, LHR FO year 2).

[Danny212]

About £4500 to £4700 in busy summer months, £3900 to £4100 in quieter months. (Little over time included in these figures, LHR FO year 2).

Really appreciated that! Thanks!!

[SK1]

What about the average take home pay for a LH FO?

[captain.weird]

A380 only possible for 320 rated guys? Or also nonrated?

[Stocious]

What about the average take home pay for a LH FO?

Basic pay at PP1 is identical, but you'll earn more in TAFB payments (Time away from base). How much more you'll take home as a result is dependent on your spending habits down route to a degree!

A380 only possible for 320 rated guys? Or also nonrated?

Also open to non rated, but the fleet doesn't usually take many DEPs. Maybe 20 in the past 5 years or so.

[RexBanner]

Any junior FO's SH care to share current take home pay? I know its variable based on X, Y and Z. But a rough figure would be great based on the summer months.

Take Home:
July £4880
August £4960

PP3 mind. No overtime. Wild horses couldn’t drag me in on days off.

[Paddingtonbear]

Any junior FO's SH care to share current take home pay? I know its variable based on X, Y and Z. But a rough figure would be great based on the summer months.

Anybody care to share the same info, but for Gatwick base?

[bringbackthe80s]

Wild horses couldn’t drag me in on days off.

Says quite a bit about the job!

-just kidding-

[RexBanner]

There’s another reason for that (commuting) my time at home is more valuable than they could ever pay ;)

[Danny212]

Take Home:
July £4880
August £4960

PP3 mind. No overtime. Wild horses couldn’t drag me in on days off.

Thanks!! @Rex Banner

[Meg9]

Anyone else also in the holdpool that know roughly how long it's taking to get a call?

Thanks!

[zero/zero]

Apparently A320 peeps are getting very quick dips in the pool. Others a bit longer (but not that long).

I heard they’ve changed the system so you get one email with an offer, 24 hours to accept and then kicked out of the pool if you reject.

[Meg9]

Yeah, I got that email too! I don't think they want people hanging back for LH offers if they have been given a SH start date...

Hopefully not long! :)

[Littleoldme]

How long are people waiting on average for their sim assessment? Been waiting approx 3 weeks now for a sim slot.... is that pretty much the case for everyone at the moment?

thanks in advance

[737 Jockey]

Heard recently that BA SH is really struggling due to Pilot shortage. Is that true? I’m not sure what exactly was meant by struggling? Are they cancelling any flights?

[NLP]

Heard recently that BA SH is really struggling due to Pilot shortage. Is that true? I’m not sure what exactly was meant by struggling? Are they cancelling any flights?

Nothing is being cancelled, but we've been working our nuts off. It has been a very busy year and there are a lot of new guys/girls starting on the 320 at the moment.

[Barcli]

"Nothing is being cancelled, but we've been working our nuts off. It has been a very busy year and there are a lot of new guys/girls starting on the 320 at the moment. "
And it will be worse next year ..... and the year after ... and the year after that.....

[RexBanner]

Might not be news to you Barcli but it’s happening in every industry in every company so get over it. Got a mate who’s got a good job in the Home Office, he was telling me their official mantra is “do more with less”. We’re actually reasonably insulated in the aviation industry comparison with the demands of the real world..

(listen to me being the positive voice of reason for once :) )

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

I was in for my 6 monthly reset at the weekend and the 767 sim was absolutely flat out with recruitment. Apparently it's been that way for the last 6 months or so.

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

Might not be news to you Barcli but it’s happening in every industry in every company so get over it. Got a mate who’s got a good job in the Home Office, he was telling me their official mantra is “do more with less”. We’re actually reasonably insulated in the aviation industry comparison with the demands of the real world..

(listen to me being the positive voice of reason for once :) )


We are slightly insulated at BA that's for sure. But the penny smart pound stupid culture is still rife throughout the business.

And "Do More With Less".....I've just thrown up a bit. The people that usually come up with such slogans are often living the high life with gold plated final salary pensions to look forward to.

[Thegreenmachine]

Sim slots available. Anybody booked to go in October please get in touch!

Edit : can't pm you back as your inbox is full!

[DriverJake]

Has anyone gone into Stage 1 exams with a passport that was valid for less than 12 months? If so, did they accept it?
Yes, I did. They never mentioned it as I think it’s just for ID. I also took my Drivers Licence just in case. My other passport was with the Visa people so I took a copy of that one along too but didn’t need it. Good luck!

[Mansnothot]

I did my sim on the 13th of September, got the email that I was in the holdpool on the 17th, and got the call today the 21st, for a January start date on the 320 at LHR. Im not 320 rated at the moment btw. So things can move very quickly!

[NineInchSnail]

Hi Folks,

Can someone share some feedback or recommend the best online prep company for the assessment day at BA headquarters with MGIB, TTB and computer-based capacity test?

Thanks in advance

9"

[JStone]

I used skytest, its very similar but there are some differences.

[captain.weird]

I did my sim on the 13th of September, got the email that I was in the holdpool on the 17th, and got the call today the 21st, for a January start date on the 320 at LHR. Im not 320 rated at the moment btw. So things can move very quickly!

What is your experience?