NEWCASTLE - 8

[Jamesair]

In statistics it differentiates between flights operated as part of a package holiday (inclusive tour) and ad hoc charter flights (one off charters) which in NCL's case would appear under the "other" heading.

[canberra97]

Well it amazes me that some so called aviation professionals have never come across the term IT.

Am glad others do, it just shows how much people actually don't take anything in as the term is widely used in the airline / airport industry.

[AerRyan]

Asked a few in work today, I'd say about half of who I asked had heard the term "inclusive tour", but only one had seen it referred to as IT.

Anyway learn something new everyday, this is a discussion forum after all, no need for the extreme hostilities seen here. Doesn't paint a good picture of the people in our industry, we're not all short headed!

[ash666]

Anyway learn something new everyday, this is a discussion forum after all, no need for the extreme hostilities seen here. Doesn't paint a good picture of the people in our industry, we're not all short headed!
---------

Agreed. :ok:

[highwideandugly]

For my tupence worth,it's a very common term in the aviation industry..maybe some take these terms in with interest,while others don't!

[SWBKCB]

In the olden days, the world really was divided into scheduled and IT (with the odd one-off charter), but in the days of easyJet and Jet2 it's largely archaic - should have been dropped when charters started selling flight-only.

[Jamesair]

I agree with that....most IT listed flights are mixed... seat only/package

[EK77WNCL]

To change topic, how are people feeling about the impending/long awaited new routes... Particularly EZY to Berlin, which is IMHO a huge step in the right direction, and the barrage of new FR routes to Gdansk, Madrid, Warsaw and Wroclaw. I'm hoping they all bring in at least some inbound tourism but personally I'm going to Warsaw in December with my mam, Berlin in January with 3 mates and seriously looking at Madrid in April/May... Cities I've been interested in but only taken seriously since direct flights became available

Despite the bad feelings around FR, I definitely feel it will improve profitability at NCL because it keeps the airport busier after the based A/C leave, and should hopefully, slightly improve seasonality with the increase in year round flights

I do have doubts about just how many people actually want to fly to so many new destinations, but we did have a daily flight to Berlin and Krakow, so if the demand was there 10 years ago, why isn't it there now?

I hope this is the growth we've missed out on the last few years, and I think we could be close to 5mppa for 2016 and almost guaranteed it for 2017

If TFS and LPA work out for EZY I wonder if they might jump in on FNC since TOM have left and LS haven't increased frequency (LF's on LS/TOM on 2 weekly 738's were healthy - and they left within a few hours of eachother)

Legacy growth, I think, will be limited... I think BA will decrease but AF/KL/EI/EK will stay healthy, perhaps with limited scope for growth. I'm more doubtful for x2 daily EK now since EY/QR at EDI and more A380's at MAN, but sustaining the daily 77W shouldn't be a problem at all

[AerRyan]

Berlin and Krakow are emerging city destinations which so far have managed to make a market for themselves wherever they are introduced. Great routes to have for the airport.

[northumberlandairway]

If the recent additions to NCL's offerings are indicative of a new city based, rather than bucket and spade focused, mindset from Easyjet and Ryanair, would it be too much to hope to see the return of a service to Milan and Oslo?

[ash666]

I would love to see Milan and Oslo available along with non-bucket and spade Spanish cities even if it's just Madrid.

[SWBKCB]

Madrid is what we wanted RYR to do - a previously unserved major destination, so hopefully expanding the market and not just nicking market share.

Berlin is EZY doing what they do with shortish city runs - don't be surprised if they drop it again in a couple of years for CDG or AMS.

The three RYR polish routes are odd, mainly in terms of them all starting at once - presumably RYR have spotted an underserved polish market in the North east. I don't think these are primarily aimed at the city break market.

I think the city break market in the NE is limited - once people have been somewhere they want to go somewhere else, which is why we get this rotation of city destinations.

[ash666]

once people have been somewhere they want to go somewhere else.
-------------

That's a big advantage with Madrid. From there you can go to Seville, Zaragoza, Valencia, Granada.......

[LiamNCL]

Iceland would be nice

[northumberlandairway]

I agree on quite a few points here. Madrid was a surprise and let's hope it proves sustainable.


Also the NE is a limited market, of that there is no doubt. With that in mind 2 or 3 rotations a week to any city break destination is more than enough for Newcastle. At one point there seemed to be virtually daily flights to the likes of Budapest, Berlin SXF and Bergamo. That just seemed to be plain silly to me.


Anyone looking at a map would see that Poland was massively underserved in the North East full stop. Despite Brexit we are going to have a reasonably sized Polish population for a while and I would have thought the Jet2 flights to Krakow would have only scratched the surface there. By the way Wroclaw is surprisingly lovely and definitely worth a visit.


Finally every month a fresh batch of 18 year olds arrive on the flight scene who may want to explore Europe. Admittedly Ibiza is much more appealing to them than Gdansk, but my point is there will be a time when these young people emerge into the market for city breaks. This is happening now, demographics change constantly. And who knows? If they like it they might go twice.

[EK77WNCL]

Our biggest downfall is the lack of middle class, people who may have 2 holidays (likely 1 long haul, 1 short/medium haul) and 1 or 2 city/weekend breaks every year

If we had that we could be talking 10mppa and a much wider range of destinations and frequencies. Look at Bristol... Traveling down there regularly, it always amazes me just how similar Bristol and Newcastle are, I feel at home down there and so much is practically identical, except they are more wealthy. It could be argued they have a larger catchment but having BHX, LHR, CWL, EXT and NQY siphoning off a sizeable amount of theirs, probably has a similar effect to 50% of our catchment being in the sea.

In my eyes Newcastle is (unfortunately) a poor man's Bristol, hence BRS is EZY's 4th largest base and has more than double the passengers we do. Don't get me wrong I love Newcastle and really do think it has a lot of worth as a city, and as a tourist and business destination - but it's the people that live here that spoil it. I'm fully aware I'll probably get called a snob, but I challenge you to argue that point. Not everyone, but a lot of them.

[SWBKCB]

but it's the people that live here that spoil it.

It's not the people, but as I've said previously the North East is one of the poorest regions in England, if not the UK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid

[ash666]

NCL seems to have a reputation on EZY for passengers who aren't quite as well behaved as they might be due to alcohol.

[EK77WNCL]

Well yeah, and that is unfortunate... There are a lot of people who want to work, but can't because of the lack of opportunities

My comment was aimed at the "minority" (there seems to be a hell of a lot of them) who just don't want to work and don't care in general

It would be interesting to know if there is actually any way to improve the fortunes of the North East, or if we're damned to be a poor industrial area, with no industry, for all time

[SWBKCB]

I don't think anybody on this thread that will have the answer.

[EK77WNCL]

I'd be very surprised if anybody at all had that answer. Education would probably be the first step, but there just isn't the work ethic up here. I know not everybody is academically gifted, I'm certainly not but I bet a lot of people have more potential than they show

Back on topic anyway, I think Ryanair is taking a measured risk with the Polish routes and Madrid, I'm confident it will pay off, and if it does I think the future might start looking a little brighter for us

I've said it before, if the airport is ambitious but careful with Ryanair, it might just provoke a healthy reaction from Easyjet and possibly Jet2

For all I'd love expansion from Thomson, with a few more 4/5 - 10/11 night holiday options and slightly more exotic destinations, I doubt we'll get it. Jet2 are probably too strong on the traditional markets for TOM to expand them, thus not making more exotic destinations worth it. Long haul I hope there's scope for a little more...

I worry about Thomas Cook though, I think they're the number 1 contender, closely followed by Easyjet, for shrinkage in the next few years, unless the powers that be expand cautiously

[highwideandugly]

EK77WNCL for local mayor and NIA managing director!!

Don't mean that derogatory...its positive thinking and in the cloud ability is what the NE and country needs!!

[SWBKCB]

Slagging of your customer base isn't a great start! :ok:

[MerchantVenturer]

Look at Bristol... Traveling down there regularly, it always amazes me just how similar Bristol and Newcastle are, I feel at home down there and so much is practically identical, except they are more wealthy. It could be argued they have a larger catchment but having BHX, LHR, CWL, EXT and NQY siphoning off a sizeable amount of theirs, probably has a similar effect to 50% of our catchment being in the sea.

BRS loses very little to CWL, EXT or NQY. The opposite is true in fact with over one million passengers annually with origin/destination in Wales and one million with origin/destination in Devon/Cornwall.

BHX does see more passengers from the South West using it - approaching half a million in the latest CAA survey - but the biggest leakage is to the London airports, mainly LHR, with over five million passengers annually from the South West. This is not really such a big loss to BRS as it might appear because many of the routes, especially long haul, would not be viable there anyway.

I was once a regular through NCL (from/to BRS with easyJet) and I found NCL provided a very good passenger experience. I wish easyJet would reinstate to some extent its frequencies, and particularly timings, of a few years ago - can't really do a day trip any more, but this topic has been raised before in this thread of course.

[LiamNCL]

I worry about Thomas Cook though, I think they're the number 1 contender, closely followed by Easyjet, for shrinkage in the next few years, unless the powers that be expand cautiously

TCX & TOM are highstreet names , both know exactly how to do holidays and do them really well. Thomas Cook have had 3 based Aircraft here for over 5 years and are generally cheaper than Thomson so cant see them downsizing.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

Massive over complication of the issue by spotters re NCL!

You have 2.7 million people to use. That will only allow certain routes / frequencies to be viable [even with RYR].

Yes the propensity to fly in the North East is not quite as high as other more affluent regions but the overriding factor is the population catchment of a remote region. Once that 2.7 million are used on viable routes - that is it. No passengers are coming from anywhere else. Hence New York not quite working.

Not like Bristol in the slightest, which has more than double the population catchment of NCL.

The management of NCL are doing a great job and are maximising what is possible with 2.7 million people.

[anthbower1234]

Whats going on with TCX? 3 A321's today

[HeathrowDictator]

Looks like the MAN-based Avion went tech in Dalaman, ours was positioned out there last night to bring the MAN passengers home. A321 positioned up from Gatwick this morning to pick up the Avion schedule.

-HD-

[LiamNCL]

Yep G-TCDH positioned up from LGW to do this mornings TFS & G-TCDN has left not long ago on this evenings TFS. Canary winter escape is well underway !

[EK77WNCL]

MerchantVenturer, I completely agree, i just can't fathom the easyjet BRS schedules at all... They just don't make any sense to me unfortunately, have to make do for now though I suppose

[toon22]

It doesn't help that Flybe's Exeter service goes (midweek) at the same time. EZY's schedule is geared entirely for Stag and Hen parties coming up to Newcastle for the weekend. Nothing wrong with that but for me it renders the service unusable.

[EK77WNCL]

It's not as terrible as it could be during the summer, as yet I've managed by using the early Saturday flights, but for the winter it's just going to be a pain

How big is the stag/hen market for people coming from the SW to NE?

I just can't get my head around what happened to the days of x2 daily Sun-Fri, x1 daily Sat, with extra frequencies thrown in as necessary dependent on demand

I mean, take this winter, there's going to be x3 daily on Friday and Sunday, all in the afternoon, and no Saturday flight

[AerRyan]

I notice DUB goes to 1 daily on a Saturday on both Aer Lingus and Ryanair. Will be using the morning SAT Aer Lingus flight too, but does demand really fall so short on a Saturday?

Also, interestingly enough, on my last trip to Newcastle, there was a Hen Party on my return flight to Dublin, having their hen IN Dublin!

[EK77WNCL]

Yeah I wonder that as well... I can't be the only person who, for the most part, travels on a weekend?

Maybe it's just lower yield passengers on Saturdays and they don't deem it worth operating the flight.

If Aer Lingus has less transatlantic flights on Saturdays I can understand why... Ryanair though, is mostly leisure, so I'd have thought there'd be demand

Without even looking yet, I'll put money that they both leave roughly, if not exactly the same time?

[EI-A330-300]

I notice DUB goes to 1 daily on a Saturday on both Aer Lingus and Ryanair. Will be using the morning SAT Aer Lingus flight too, but does demand really fall so short on a Saturday?

Also, interestingly enough, on my last trip to Newcastle, there was a Hen Party on my return flight to Dublin, having their hen IN Dublin!

EI have never operated a second Saturday service but overall they are operating 16 weekly (+1 weekly on last winter) with x 3 Su (+1), Mo, Fr.

Both weekends flights now depart DUB at 08.15 and 08.30 (same lather LBA as well) and not the usual 06.00-07.00 service. Could be many reasons for this and not just lack of demand.

[Chesty Morgan]

Without even looking yet, I'll put money that they both leave roughly, if not exactly the same time?

Pretty dangerous that.

[nighthawk117]

Originally Posted by EK77WNCL View Post
Without even looking yet, I'll put money that they both leave roughly, if not exactly the same time?
Pretty dangerous that.

Counter-intuitively, it's actually clever to do so. There's an economic theory that states it's beneficial to do this, but I've forgot the name of it.

Basically, the theory goes that by separating the times of flights, say Easyjet operating in the morning and Ryanair in the afternoon, you are dividing the market. Instead of appealing to everyone, the Easyjet flights now only appeal to those who want to travel in the morning, and Ryanair only appeal to those wishing to travel in the afternoon.

But by grouping the flights together, time is no longer an issue. Everyone has to travel at that time regardless of whether they wanted to or not. Now you can target the whole market, and capture traffic based on brand or price.

[ash666]

I think Chesty's post was a joke....
(as in 2 planes taking off side by side on the runway. Or maybe a tow rope)

[nighthawk117]

I think Chesty's post was a joke....
(as in 2 planes taking off side by side on the runway. Or maybe a tow rope)
reading it again, I think you are right. I don't do jokes in the morning (or much else :)

[ash666]

Well let's have these again.

Never let it be said that ground crews lack a sense of humor. Here are some actual maintenance complaints submitted by pilots (marked with a P) and the solutions recorded (marked with an S) by maintenance engineers.
P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.
S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.
P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.
S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.
P: Something loose in cockpit.
S: Something tightened in cockpit.
P: Dead bugs on windshield.
S: Live bugs on back-order.
P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute descent.
S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.
P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.
S: Evidence removed.
P: #2 Propeller seeping prop fluid
S: #2 Propeller seepage normal – #1 #3 and #4 propellers lack normal seepage
P: DME volume unbelievably loud.
S: DME volume set to more believable level.
P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.
S: That’s what they’re for
P: IFF inoperative.
S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.
P: Suspected crack in windshield.
S: Suspect you’re right.
P: Number 3 engine missing.
S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.
P: Aircraft handles funny.
S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right, and be serious.
P: Target radar hums.
S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics
P: Mouse in cockpit.
S: Cat installed.
And the best one for last.
P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget pounding on something with a hammer.
S: Took hammer away from midget.

[EK77WNCL]

They're good! Old, but goodun's

Also, does anyone have any info on what Flybe's previous base and routes were from NCL? For example, how many aircraft did we have at peak? And routes?

Belfast City? How many times a day did we have at most? Was Exeter previously more than x6 weekly (could have sworn it was 2 daily). I remember they dabbled in Aberdeen, was there anything else? Limoges... Did they fly anywhere else in France?

And another thing, Easyjet's Stansted service, what kind of traffic did it cater for? Obviously some will have been London bound passengers, but was there an equal proportion of people bound for elsewhere in the South East/Norfolk/Midlands? It interests me where 250/300,000 passengers have gone...

[SWBKCB]

flybe to BHD was 5 daily before EZY launched BFS.

They had previously done IOM and replaced Gill on the AF CDG flights.

Exeter and Southampton were launched as daily in Oct 2004, SOU went twice daily the following summer and weekly JER added (JER went 4 weekly in 2006)

Weekly Limoges launched May 2007

Gatwick, Rennes, Aberdeen and Cardiff launched summer 2008

[Chesty Morgan]

reading it again, I think you are right. I don't do jokes in the morning (or much else :)

:ok:;).....

[toon22]

.... don't forget Newquay, Saturdays only May - Sept.

[EK77WNCL]

It would be interesting to see if they have any plans to build themselves up again at NCL

I wonder if they could do Birmingham, I'm not surprised Eastern failed to be honest, with the fares they charged! But if Flybe can offer a faster and cheaper alternative to the train, then why not? 70 seats at £50-100 shouldn't be much more difficult than 20 seats at £300... Or does business not work like that?

[GrahamK]

Flybe have also tried Hanover and Bergen from NCL

[jamesgrainge]

It would be interesting to see if they have any plans to build themselves up again at NCL

I wonder if they could do Birmingham, I'm not surprised Eastern failed to be honest, with the fares they charged! But if Flybe can offer a faster and cheaper alternative to the train, then why not? 70 seats at £50-100 shouldn't be much more difficult than 20 seats at £300... Or does business not work like that?

It's the whole time vs cost thing isn't it? If you have to do security etc for two hours before at the airport, bit of a pain, if the costs were the same however I would fly every time. People feel safer by train than in the sky as well I would generalise.

[skyhawk1]

It's the whole time vs cost thing isn't it? If you have to do security etc for two hours before at the airport, bit of a pain, if the costs were the same however I would fly every time. People feel safer by train than in the sky as well I would generalise.
1 hour at airport plus 1 hour ish flight = 2 hours. train is 3 - 3 1/2 hours plus 15 mins before it goes. so train takes more than twice as long. why would people feel safer on a train than on a plane? you are also guaranteed a seat on a plane.

[HeartyMeatballs]

The train operates up to an hourly frequency with journeys taking as little as 2:50.

The train has multiple pickup points at Morpeth, Newcastle, Durham and Darlington and takes you're direct to the centre of Birmingham. In isolation the train likely has a larger catchment too.

You need to travel to the airport and park up. Travelling to and from one of the mentioned stations is quicker and easier for most.

You also have the benefit of turning up and departing on the next train (ticket type permitting) and XC trains allow you to text and book a seat ten mins prior to departure.

I'm surprised it lasted for so long.

[skyhawk1]

The train operates up to an hourly frequency with journeys taking as little as 2:50.

The train has multiple pickup points at Morpeth, Newcastle, Durham and Darlington and takes you're direct to the centre of Birmingham. In isolation the train likely has a larger catchment too.

You need to travel to the airport and park up. Travelling to and from one of the mentioned stations is quicker and easier for most.

You also have the benefit of turning up and departing on the next train (ticket type permitting) and XC trains allow you to text and book a seat ten mins prior to departure.

I'm surprised it lasted for so long.

You need to travel to train station and park up also. Driving to any city center train station you will need to allow more time for traffic than going to newcastle airport which is quite easy to get to. You can get next train ticket type permitting, but these cost more and may involve a change taking longer. Think most people would book easiest journey and cost would be secondry.

[SWBKCB]

cost would be secondary.

!!!! :eek:

Makes you wonder how Megabus are still in business...

[HeartyMeatballs]

Newcastle airport isn't easy to get to for everyone. People living south of the river don't find it that easy. They can also connect more locally via Durham and Darlo and to a lesser extent Morpeth. NCL airport is very easy to access for those north of the airport, unfortunately most people live south and east of the airport.

It offers one departure point for the people of the north east vs four points of departure for the train.

There are hourly direct rail links. No changing involved. Your car is also literally steps away from the train door. No faffing about with car park shuttles - which now take up to 15 minutes toe preach certain car parks at the airport. You can also drive it in just over three hours.

The market has spoken. If a 29 (sometimes 19 seat) seater can't make it work then I very much doubt anyone else can make it work. For most people in the real world cost is king.

You also can't put a price on finishing a meeting early in town and getting straight to the station and on the next train home. No hassle of getting to the airport. No waiting hours for the next flight home. With the train it's a 59minute wait worst case scenario. You can't put a price on that flexibility and convenience. Even better if you're in first where you can chill out in a lounge and once you're onboard you get some food (way better than the standard eastern airways cereal bar).

As always I hope to be proven wrong.

[SWBKCB]

People living south of the river don't find it that easy. They can also connect more locally via Durham and Darlo and to a lesser extent Morpeth. NCL airport is very easy to access for those north of the airport, unfortunately most people live south and east of the airport

Has Morpeth been dragged south of the river when I wasn't looking?

You can also drive it in just over three hours.

Yes - you candrive it in just over three hours - but in the real world, how reliably??

[HeartyMeatballs]

Morpeth is easier than most places to connect to the airport but it also has regular(ish) direct service to BHX. Of all the rail stops Morpeth is the easiest to get to for all of the locations mentioned.

I used to drive it for years. South of the river to BHX just over three hours. Stuck in traffic once. But then again let's not pretend flying isn't subject to delays. Particularly when you're CAT1.

If people think NCLBHX is viable then do explain why T3 have dropped the route and who could profitably replace them on the route.

Spotters can argue til they're blue in the face. Unfortunately it's fare paying bums on seats that make a route viable. Tragically there's aren't enough to bums paying a sufficient fare to make the route viable. To my knowledge it's not that T3 have used the 'we can make more money on a different route' excuse as I can't think of new routes or increased frequencies from them.

[SWBKCB]

If you can get to Morpeth train station easily, you can get to NCL easily - doubt whether anybody south of the river uses it to get to Brum.

All forms of transport are subject to delays but the Cross Country trains to Brum are not a pleasant experience at peak times, neither is driving Newcastle to Birmingham.

Eastern are a niche operator aiming at a certain market (those on expenses not paying their own fares).

[HeartyMeatballs]

Indeed expenses account are good for a route. However there's clearly not enough to make it viable. I can't imagine any leisure travellers using the route.

On the plane they confiscate your bag and there's no wifi u like the train. Another big plus for the train.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Oh and you don't have to squeeze into a J41 when you take the train.

[EK77WNCL]

My argument was mainly that for NCL-BHX, flybe could offer flights for 1/3 or even 1/6 of the price. If there were "enough" passengers to keep Eastern on the route for as long as they did, paying the fares Eastern charged, then logic (to me) would dictate that more people would pay cheaper fares, espacially when those fares also open the market up to leisure travellers, as well as connecting traffic onto Flybe's other routes from the BHX base

I would also make the same argument for flights from NCL-MAN, it's just a inconvenient to get to from NCL, and I think that as one of the largest airports in the UK, with a good selection of Flybe codeshares on the route, such as Cathay, Etihad and Virgin, I think it could also support itself

If the airport were to back it, offer 30 minute check in with security fast track, then 25/30 minutes on the metro from Newcastle/Gateshead, 30 minute check in, 30/40 minute flight and 10 minutes through to airside... I'd say that was pretty competitive with the train, especially if it was cheaper

Not forgetting the added advantage of being able to check your bags in at NCL and not see them until you land in HKG with Cathay, SYD with Etihad or BOS with Virgin

[jamesgrainge]

Not forgetting the added advantage of being able to check your bags in at NCL and not see them until you land in HKG with Cathay, SYD with Etihad or BOS with Virgin

Or the advantage of never seeing them again :)

[FQTLSteve]

During 2001 and into 2002 I used BHX-NCL service with BA almost every week up on Tuesday and down on Friday. It was 4x 1-5 and 1X 7 late afternoon, hot breakfast and bar trolley other flights. Weekend leisure fare, stay Sat night either way was £49 rtn. Of course in those days BA operated a hub at BHX on many times we were 'held' to await connecting pax arriving on BA (eg MXP, FRA, DUS CDG BCN and so on) and even AA ORD too all using the Eurohub terminal. At one point they dropped down to 3x 1-5 adding an additional NCL-CWL rotation instead. However after a couple of months this was swapped back. As a regular traveller I got to know the cabin crew and got all the inside info, CWL just didn't attract sufficient pax v fourth BHX service. I was travelling on business, although after this assignment I continued to use the service for personal weekend visits to wonderful Newcastle.
I very rarely used rail, to be comfortable on a long journey, in my case continuing on the same train to Leamington Spa, you needed to travel first class which was expensive, similar to unrestricted weekday airfare, and in those days the food service on the train was not good, and BA terraces lounges were a great place to wait if you got to the airport early.
Maybe the BA feed ability helped sustain loads and yield, the early morning flight BHX-NCL was always very well used as was the NCL-BHX evening return. I used the two other flights rarely but they were about 50% I recall.
Not sure this helps the debate but just wanted to share my experience from a while ago.

[10 DME ARC]

I wasn't surprised Eastern dropped BHX the hole UK domestic market has changed massively over the last 10-15 years with APD and rail deregulation. Plus business is either very techno savvy or not willing to pay the large fares Eastern made the route work with!
What I do object to comments wise is NCL being difficult to get to from south of the river, I commuted for 18 years Sunderland-NCL and only ever found problems during road works and then only during peak times! What I do think is a problem is the reliability of the Metro! I used to use this all the time for mid day flights from NCL then after the nearly missing three flights by train break downs and only making it because I jumped in a taxi, I gave up! I only use metro these days for non time critical journeys!!

[EK77WNCL]

I just hope one day that the government will see that the domestic aviation market, and the rest of the UK aviation market, will thrive without APD

Thank you FQTLSteve, nice to hear it called "Wonderful Newcastle" as well, hopefully you'll be able to pop up on a Flybe Dash 8 one day ;)

[N707ZS]

10 DME ARC, unfortunately the A19 is now full on a morning and the roadwork's are becoming part of local history! No idea what the rail situation is like but from Teesside you first have to get to Darlington.

[Jamesair]

All of the above sounds like utopia when compared to getting to any of our London Airports.

[fl dutchman]

Have the roadworks near the Metro Centre not finished??

[SWBKCB]

Yes - they have.

[N707ZS]

Thanks for the info, has it improved the traffic?

[EK77WNCL]

Has it been confirmed that easyjet won't be restoring Rhodes for Summer '17? Or is it just an assumption on wikipedia because the full summer schedule isn't out

It is peculiar, however, if they are to continue for next summer, that Rhodes and Split wont start until early July

[HH6702]

Think it was added later in the season the flights started end of June so maybe in the next set of summer flights when they go on sale

[VentureGo]

Eurowings Dusseldorf

From Sunday coming (30th Oct), Dusseldorf flights will be operated by Eurowings and Germanwings "on behalf of Eurowings" Airbus A320 series aircraft
- Should add some capacity!

[EK77WNCL]

Huge capacity jump coming for this winter and next summer

5 new Ryanair routes, 2 new easyjet routes and Eurowings upgauge this weekend

[Jamesair]

Still waiting to see if BMI extend the Stavanger route to Bergen next summer.

[LiamNCL]

Jet2 have had 5x 738s operating the past week when only 4x have been all summer. Example is G-JZHD on this evenings KRK

[Jamesair]

May be connected with schools half-term holiday

[HH6702]

Yes big increase in capacity for next summer and I'm guessing we may still see more being added before the season starts.

It's about time Newcastle got the increases

[EK77WNCL]

I hope they do, although I think a ERJ145 would be better because the 135 doesn't offer very many seats per destination (not that the 145 offers an amazing amount either)

I wonder if it would at all be feasible to do NCL-BRU-NCL-SVG-NCL-BGO-NCL-BRU-NCL in one day on the 135?

Bergen and Stavanger would only have 18.5 seats pdew on the 135... 24.5 on the 145. I'm sure there is more demand than that to be honest

Edit: Also, Split is no longer on easyjet's route map from Newcastle, Rhodes still is, so there's hope there, but I fear we may have lost one, or both of them... What is it about Croatia that doesn't work too well from NCL?

[long_final]

Could be done, although I understand that the SVG & BGO would operate as a 'triangle' NCL-SVG-BGO-NCL (or BGO first, not sure) Of course the downside here is pax coming to NCL from SVG will have to stop off in BGO first. Still quicker than flying into MAN and coming up by road/train.
Re EZY, haven't heard anything about losing SPU but it did have lower loads this season. I think Croatia/Slovenia etc may still be a bit niche, and once people have been once that's it. Same story with Bulgaria, rapid expansion a few years ago but found the happy medium. That said all the Sharm and Turkey pax have to holiday somewhere, although they'll probably just flock to Benidorm.


Also, nice to see an EWR flight without a 2+ hour delay today.

[Travel Agent]

Bulgaria is due to have an additional BH Air flight to Bourgas making three a week for next summer and TC are doing 2 per week, so increases there.

[HH6702]

Didn't BH have 3 flights per week this summer ?

[LiamNCL]

BH had 2 a week , A320 on a MON and A330 on a friday although i think the 330 was stand in most of the time. Bulgaria deffinetley isnt 'Niche' its becoming very popular especially with youngins added to the fact its currency isnt € you can get alot more for your money.

Is anything filling in the Monday flight for TCX this winter ? With SSH nowhere near returning i thought they might of added LPA as a Winter.

[HH6702]

There was 2x BH flights on a Friday during the high season

[HH6702]

Any idea what the plans are at TCX?
Heard a rumour that there won't be a third party aircraft next summer with all flights on there own aircraft?

[LiamNCL]

Any idea what the plans are at TCX?
Heard a rumour that there won't be a third party aircraft next summer with all flights on there own aircraft?

Still showing a A320 seat map on certain routes & as TCX dont have any 320s then at the moment it must be 3rd party.

[Beatts]

The 11:00 BA1326 has been cancelled and replaced with 13:40 Boeing 767(ER) G-BNWZ.

[HH6702]

Airport has updated timetable section on website summer 2017 now able to view

[long_final]

With the FR expansion expected to bring a further 750,000 pax, we could well see towards 5.5m next year. Interesting that EZY SPU and RHO isn't listed, though CFU is. Rumours had been circulating about that but very little news of what may be to come. Guess we'll find out Thursday

[HH6702]

Heard that those routes are dropped and we are getting at least 2 new routes

[Jamesair]

That sounds good......I note that Niki are doing the Verona charter next summer

[EK77WNCL]

Is it Niki? For the Saturday Verona? It says TBC on the timetable as yet. TOM also has a Malaga flight with the airline TBC

Rhodes could be a late starter this year with easyjet, it's still on their route map whereas Split is not. I really hope Split isn't going to get dropped but it looks like it is. I wonder what the 2 or more new routes could be, there's only x3 weekly slots to use, unless aircraft capacity is coming from somewhere else

For once I can confidently say that I'm sure we will break 5 million for 2017, and unless something goes catastrophically wrong, and if Ryanair keeps up it's growth, even at half the rate of this year (that would still be almost +400,000 seats), coupled with natural market growth and maybe even an extra aircraft from Jet2 or capacity shuffling and increases from easyjet... 6 million really shouldn't be that unattainable for 2018

[Jamesair]

Sorry, that's my mistake......for Verona read Salzburg.

[fl dutchman]

EK77WNCL

I hope what you say about passenger numbers is correct. However do you think the falling Pound will have an effect on airlines and the number of passengers. Dont forget NCL is mainly outbound tourism.

[EK77WNCL]

Ah, so have Thomson increased slightly for next year? If we have Niki doing Salzburg (due to the new Air Berlin/Niki/Austrian deal, what A/C?), as well as two TBC on Verona and Malaga?

I hope I'm right, 6 million is definitely doable if growth at NCL matches growth across the rest of the country. Although I still don't believe that Brexit is a good thing, and I still don't believe that the exchange rate between countries has that much bearing on tourist numbers... IF there are any decreases in outbound tourism, hopefully this will be made up by increased inbound tourism, especially on the Ryanair routes. I've noticed a lot of Spaniards in Bristol, whereas I hardly ever see any in Newcastle, maybe that could change?

Does anyone know how to get individual passenger numbers for flights, I've seen them posted elsewhere, for example yesterday on the Belfast thread for their new Ryanair routes, I was wondering if anyone had the same data for us?

[HH6702]

If Ryanair offer £2 sales every few months im sure we will get there

[apaul]

Don't see an increase from Thomson for Summer 2017. They've dropped Madeira and no longer fly to Dubrovnik, although you can book holidays with them using Jet2 flights.

[fa2fi]

It's a real shame about the SPU and RHO flights appearing to be gone. It seems to be policy to try a route for two seasons, review it and then continue or chop it. Their problem is that they're always one of the last airlines to release the leak summer schedule. By the time they release them people have already booked elsewhere.

Hopefully we'll hear about new routes soon. But personally I wouldn't be surprised if they just increase frequencies on Spain/Faro or make the TFS year round but I do think it would be a waste of resources to do that in summer season. I think there would be more money to be made operating two shorter flights.

I know Turkey is largely off the radar but I could see one route there potentially. I'm well aware the geopolitics of the region but the western most resorts have been relatively safe. Now when you consider the poor exchange rate we are getting, the better value of Turkey could be a draw. I was in the US last week and it was VERY expensive compared to the usual and I think people are in for a shock when it comes to spending abroad. Could we see a Bodrum? There's no competition on it by the looks of it.

Anyone heard any route rumours?

[long_final]

I wouldn't be surprised to see tfs year round, and it could go when the RHO would as is approx same flight time so would need too much alterations to the schedule from this summer. SPU was tue morning and sat evening so options for a 12 night stay as well as 7/14. I think Italy is massively under served at ncl.
Haven't heard much in the way of rumours of late though

[EK77WNCL]

It is interesting that easyjet always leave it so late, why is that? Is it because (or so it seems) they make more changes more regularly to times, schedules and bases compared to other airlines, so they need more time to plan it?

I mean just from NCL... There are some routes that have a different schedule almost every month, and that schedule isn't then the same, that same month of the following year! I think they definitely seem to be the most changeable

If they could address that, even announcing holiday flights earlier than other flights, their forward bookings would be much stronger and they could make much more of holiday routes. Also through expanding easyjet holidays as well, although I think they might have missed the boat on that one

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, I hope that we will see routes in the future from easyjet along the lines of (in rough order of my perceived viability): Milan, Munich, Funchal, Venice, Reykjavik, Amsterdam, Isle of Man, Catania, Gibraltar, Mykonos, London, Lisbon, Marrakech... I'd love to think Paris might make a comeback but I just can't see it... I don't know if that's just because I see it as overrated and because the route was dropped and because AF's pax numbers have been dropping. Rome would probably be more likely to return. Depending on how it goes from Gatwick, and if they serve it from other UK airports, an oddball for the future could be La Palma, if the rest of the canaries can sustain multiple daily flights, I'm sure 1/2 per week to the most exotic Canary wouldn't go amiss.

Easyjet could still have a long way to go at Newcastle I think... I'm hoping the more fuel efficient A320neo and a hopeful C-series order might make us look a bit more attractive. The c-series could be the key to expansion from EZY at NCL in my opinion

I hope they don't just throw away opportunities like making TFS year round... It's just gained 4 more weekly 738's, 3 from Ryanair and 1 from Jet2, it doesn't need anymore seats!

Last thing... Why has NCL-TLV never been served?

[fa2fi]

They've always been one of the latest to release. It seems that Jet2 released their flights earlier than ever before this year and it seems they've been on sale for ages.

This summer saw BRS operating all but one NCLBRS rotation allowing the NCL base to concentrate on the beach flights. BRS is back to being operated by NCL aircraft for winter but hopefully they'll do the same next summer allowing the based aircraft to concentrate on holiday flights. It would be great if BFS could do the same freeing up more NCL aircraft time to do new routes or increased frequencies on busier routes.

It's not a lot but the 186Y A320 is on the horizon. If it does 3 returns a day on average a day that's 13,000 extra seats available over the year. The C series would be lovely but I just can't see it. If they do add a new type it wil be the A321 but I doubt they'll be based here.

Although the demographic could support a TLV, it would need a heck of a yield to make it work. It would use up an aircraft for an entire day. Then you've got rest implications for the crew for the next days. It won't be a cheap nor efficient route to operate. And you really could operate two Spain flights. TLV is over twice the distance but you won't necessarily get twice as much per ticket on the route. It's a place that's certainly on my list to visit but it's that little bit too far to go for a weekend break and I'm not sure how much it will appeal to locals here for a whole week. I know I've had the discussion with a couple of colleagues and they agreed it could work.

But who knows. I'm sure we will hear from them soon :-)

Incidentally yesterday was the first Berlin and a water cannon salute met it. I think there's a story going to appear in the Chron and also Las Palmas too.

They've actually now got an advert in the airport too (and it's fairly unmissable!) and I've seen easyJet adds on the sides of a few busses! When you consider that the check in desks are pretty tucked away (unless you're arriving by metro) you could forgive people for forgetting that they even serve NCL.

[HH6702]

I hope we are all shocked after easyJet puts summer 2017 on sale tomorrow.


( here's hoping 4th aircraft or a range of new YEAR ROUND routes)

[inOban]

I'm sure I've seen elsewhere that Easyjet don't announce new routes on the same day as main schedule releases.

Many of their holiday flights are partly on contract to other companies; for example in EDI, where there is no TCX presence, the only TCX holidays on offer (TFS, PMI) use Easyjet.

I agree about C series or EQV for most regional airports. I think most destinations which can justify a 319 or larger are already served, but there many which might sustain a smaller a/c. Unfortunately, Ryanair's policy of low frequency, large a/c, OK for flexible economy traffic, makes it impossible for another operator to launch a rival operation using smaller a/c at a business-friendly frequency.

[SWBKCB]

Winter's arrived - 6 Jet2's parked up (i.e. not moved for at least 12 hours) at 14.00 today.

[SWBKCB]

Last thing... Why has NCL-TLV never been served?

Why the pre-occupation with Tel Aviv? How many UK airports outside London have direct flights? That might be a clue.

[BFS BHD]

New routes for BFS are to be announced a few weeks before Christmas so if Newcastle is getting any new routes it will likely be around that time too. Confirmed by BFS MD.

[LiamNCL]

DLM BJV & AYT all down for S17 so i cannot see EZY heading for Turkey.

RHO could be replaced by HER however and SPU replaced by KEF ? Iceland really is just asking to be served its such a unique place.

[long_final]

HER could be a good call, and KEF would be an interesting addition. No pre-occupation with TLV just that Ezy have been looking at expanding flights there from UK bases and NCL was being looked at. Haven't heard much on this of late though so maybe decided against.

[canberra97]

long_final

'so maybe decided against'

Well they don't operate NCL to TLV or have any plans to do so then the word 'maybe' is redundant.

How do you know NCL was being looked at by Easyjet for TLV, am sure Manchester would have been a priority before NCL considering the large Jewish population there.

[long_final]

I know this because I work for them. Was aware of LPA and SXF for some time before they were announced and certainly before anything appeared on here, going as far as to mention SXF in a post. Satisfied?
So yes, they were looking at TLV but seem to have decided against as no further forward.

[apaul]

Glad Split has survived with easyJet and the flights go to 12 September rather than 2 September last year. Would have been a strange decision to drop it given UK visitors to Croatia are rising sharply.

[HH6702]

Rhodes is 1x weekly on a Thursday also

[fa2fi]

That's good about the SPU and RHO. They've survived the important first two seasons (I think they started S15?) so hopefully they'll be here long term.

As for new routes then it's likely limited to mainland bases now. PMI are not operating the NCL rotations which was one of the many rumours I heard. BRS are operating at least some rotations. NCL are operating all of the BFS rotations from what I see.

SO, in terms of the based aircraft and crews (which is all I'm bothered about!) it seems to be very similar to last summer. The fact that very little has changed could suggest that the base is fairy well optimised. My only hope is that people haven't already booked Ryanair and Jet2 who fly many of the same routes but have been selling them for weeks/months already.

[EK77WNCL]

Brilliant to see them staying on, even if the seasons are rather short, I hope each little step fills easyjet with the confidence they need at NCL. All 3 of the routes they launched sticking around for a 3rd season, I hope they have the same success with Berlin and Las Palmas

Slightly disappointed to see the decreases in the Jersey and Geneva schedules, but the extra flight to Nice is a pleasant surprise. Also interesting to see how quite a lot of the routes have less flights in July/August than they do in June/September. I assume this is the effects of Ryanair and Jet2 in particular, during the peak months.

"pre-occupation" with TLV? Hardly... I asked a question. And in terms of why? How about the largest orthodox population outside of Jerusalem and the world renowned talmudical college half an hour away from NCL in Bensham?

[SWBKCB]

Might by my perception, but TLV seems to be the new NYC when we have these spates of 'wish list' messages.

Don't particularly want to argue about demographics, but would be surprised if there is anything like the demand to support a service.

[HH6702]

I too heard easyJet are looking at the TLV service.
The main problem I see that it takes 1 aircraft out for a whole day which could as has been said could have done a double trip to Spain with bar sales etc will make more money.
Maybe a winter only route for easyJet??

ELAL Airlines are in talks with airport but no aircraft until summer 2018 I heard so maybe a little longer to wait and maybe we see there 737-900 at ncl a few times per week

[EK77WNCL]

Given the demographic El Al would make more sense, I don't know if it's just a rumour but I've heard many times that the specific set of orthodox Jews that live in Bensham, will only travel with El Al. True or not? I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised by it

Maybe Up would be a better bet than El Al for our market

[jensdad]

Hi EK77, I'm prepared to be proved wrong, but I'd be surprised if we see a service to Tel Aviv any time soon. Other than one concentrated pocket in West Gateshead, there isn't a large Jewish population in the North East, and due to the security situation, I can't see Israel being a hit with the notoriously conservative (note the small 'c' :) ) North East travelling public.


La Palma is an interesting idea, but again, I can't see it any time soon. There is, I think, only one route there from the UK, to and from Gatwick, so there are plenty of places before us in the queue.


(And from a purely and unashamedly selfish point of view, I've visited there and would hate to see it ruined by mass tourism! And El Hierro is even more exotic btw! )

[LAX_LHR]

La Palma is an interesting idea, but again, I can't see it any time soon. There is, I think, only one route there from the UK, to and from Gatwick, so there are plenty of places before us in the queue.

Also a route from MAN to SPC La Palma on Thomson.

[canberra97]

When people say things like 'I've also heard that Easyjet are looking at Tel Aviv service'

Are these facts or just pure speculation or has the tea lady in the Easyjet HQ been telling stories again, it's just wishful thinking by a few on here and I can't see NCL supporting any service to Tel Aviv before the likes of MAN by either Easyjet or El AL and remember EL AL used to serve MAN in the 1990s.

It's the same old story a spotter gets carried away with a rumour and over time it becomes fact based on nothing but just pure speculation and wishful thinking that's all it is to be honest.

[LAX_LHR]

Canberra,

Easyjet (and Monarch) already serve MAN-TLV, Easyjet have done some for about 4-5 years now?

[canberra97]

LAX LHR

Thanks for the correction!

You know I completely forgot about Easyjet and Monarch serving MAN to TLV but that still doesn't make a case for a direct NCL to TLV route regardless of there being a very small Jewish demographic in the Newcastle area.

[Beatts]

United Airlines to stop Belfast to New York flights - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37834823)

[HeartyMeatballs]

So the EU seems to have stopped the NI government giving of incentives to United to run their vital link to the USA.

My question is where does this end? If it's not ok to provide the support, then why is it ok for subsidise flights (highlands or Dundee-STN) and government run airports and sweetheart deals (I'm looking at you CWL).

[01475]

It's ok to subsidise flights like Dundee - STN because in the example of that route it was done openly through a proper tender process that anyone could have taken part in.

Airports... well... that's more dodgy. Charleroi is an example of an airport that got stung offering incentives to airlines. Targu Mures is an example of a subsidised airport that's attracted attention...

Cardiff... personally I think it is on dodgy ground. There are arguments on both sides and I see the strengths of both, but personally I'd say the arguments that it's dodgy are slightly stronger than the arguments that it's not. The proximity of Bristol is what differentiates it from somewhere like Stornoway. As for Prestwick, ...

[EK77WNCL]

Sad to see an aircraft retire but at least it's still got life in it. 'EBL was one of our regulars I believe, so it's quite nice to see it having been retired from a Newcastle run. I hope an announcement was made to the passengers. My mam was on a first visiting EK 77W into NCL (A6-ENE I think, definitely A6-EN*) and the captain made an announcement regarding that.

Emirates B777-300ER A6-EBL Positions to Dubai World Central Storage. | Emirates News (http://www.theeksource.com/emirates-b777-300er-a6-ebl-positions-to-dubai-world-central/)

Does it happen often that aircraft are retired from, or delivered to NCL? I remember one of the TOM 767's operated it's last flight into NCL and positioned out a few years ago. I think G-GDFL and G-LSAN were also delivered to NCL, or definitely did their first crew training from here, but not 100%

EDIT: Mental to think of the 777 300ER being retired... Is this the first one?

[Jamesair]

The two new Sukhoi Jets for City Jet seem to have done a lot of crew training in and out of NCL as did BA's new 787's

[Jamesair]

Are we expecting any new route announcements for 2017? There was talk of new routes from Easyjet and possibly another one from Ryanair.....Jet 2 has gone all quiet.

[fa2fi]

It was here last night. It's been here on a few occasions now. Seemed to do circuits before going back to Dublin. A smart looking aircraft.

[EK77WNCL]

I'd love to get more route announcements but I doubt we'll hear anything more until W17/18, S18 announcements

Need to try and see Cityjet's SSJ's at some point, EI-FWA/B/C have all been in, 'C is brand new! Wonder why us? Some kind of deal with NCL? Something up their sleeves, possible announcement, maybe a base? Probably just a coincidence though

PH-TFF, TUI Netherland 737 800 came in from Beirut today, departed to Warsaw, anyone know why? Bringing in more refugees?

[Seljuk22]

It's EK's 1st B77W which retired and went back to lessor AerCap with another 4 (all 2-class - A6-EBA, EBL, EBP, EBS, EBT) to follow. Rossiya will take them.

[Fairdealfrank]

So the EU seems to have stopped the NI government giving of incentives to United to run their vital link to the USA.

My question is where does this end? If it's not ok to provide the support, then why is it ok for subsidise flights (highlands or Dundee-STN) and government run airports and sweetheart deals (I'm looking at you CWL).

Yet another reason to get out of the EU as soon as possible.

[EK77WNCL]

Yeah... Because I'm sure Westminster will start throwing money at marginal routes from the regions come 2019... :rolleyes:

[HeartyMeatballs]

They won't be throwing money at routes but they certainly won't stop the funding of vital air links like the EU have done in this instance.

[ATNotts]

They won't be throwing money at routes but they certainly won't stop the funding of vital air links like the EU have done in this instance.
BFS-EWR was not, and never will be a "vital" air link. It was a flagship route for Northern Ireland. It's main traffic was tourist, mostly outbound.

Subsidising BFS-EWR was an attempt to skew business in the island of Ireland, which the Irish government would be understandably miffed about and within the EU, where we reside, is illegal.

I agree with EKWNCL - pigs will fly (unaided) before HMG does anything whatsoever to assist growth of direct flights to overseas destinations from NCL, or anywehre away from London.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Regional air connectivity fund is government assistance as was the EXT-LGW flight.

[SWBKCB]

Airliner deliveries at Newcastle - the Gill Air fleet, plenty of Dash-8's in the past and probably a few other smaller odds and sods, and then this one...

'november tango' (http://www.novembertango.co.uk/article/ArticleTheOneandOnly.htm)

[ash666]

Newcastle Airport on Facebook:

"You can now book flights on our website to over 80 destinations"

Really?
I can't see a booking page.

[SWBKCB]

It's "Flights" on the home page - between car park booking and security fast track

[ash666]

Thanks, well hidden!

[Jamesair]

HOP Paris Orly - NCL still shows on Wikipedia Orly....commencing 1st June 2017

[Fairdealfrank]

Regional air connectivity fund is government assistance as was the EXT-LGW flight. ....and EXT-LCY? or is that standalone?

[EK77WNCL]

HOP to Orly ain't gonna happen, we'd have heard by now

[SWBKCB]

http://www.bqlive.co.uk/2016/11/07/flying-high/

[SWBKCB]

September stats

airport 2016-09 2015-09 percent
PALMA 41,074 36,947 11.17
ALICANTE 36,460 24,174 50.82
AMSTERDAM 31,070 32,625 -4.77
MALAGA 27,782 18,366 51.27
DUBAI 20,429 20,518 -0.43
DUBLIN 19,987 15,978 25.09
TENERIFE 16,715 11,827 41.33
FARO 16,653 14,005 18.91
IBIZA 15,216 14,405 5.63
DALAMAN 14,727 21,437 -31.30
PARIS 13,038 13,880 -6.07
ARRECIFE 11,770 9,357 25.79
BARCELONA 10,946 6,333 72.84
REUS 10,548 8,161 29.25
CORFU 9,188 7,946 15.63
RHODES 8,796 7,504 17.22
MAHON 7,702 7,360 4.65
ZAKINTHOS 7,575 6,578 15.16
LARNACA 7,124 7,328 -2.78
PAPHOS 6,081 6,666 -8.78
HERAKLION 5,804 5,079 14.27
LAS PALMAS 5,783 3,143 84.00
BURGAS 5,459 5,992 -8.90
ANTALYA 5,179 6,411 -19.22
FUERTEVENTURA 4,515 4,877 -7.42
CANCUN 4,388 2,323 88.89
GENEVA 3,917 4,304 -8.99
MALTA 3,843 5,130 -25.09
NICE 3,798 3,711 2.34
DUSSELDORF 3,626 3,760 -3.56
DUBROVNIK 3,589 3,425 4.79
KOS 3,527 3,215 9.70
NAPLES 3,208 1,487 115.74
BODRUM 3,187 3,092 3.07
KEFALLINIA 2,901 2,593 11.88
MURCIA 2,900 4,353 -33.38
COPENHAGEN 2,825 2,849 -0.84
SANFORD 2,666 2,312 15.31
VERONA 2,652 2,198 20.66
KRAKOW 2,642 2,268 16.49
ROME 2,547 2,249 13.25
FUNCHAL 2,536 2,604 -2.61
PRAGUE 2,482 2,133 16.36
SKIATHOS 2,029 1,382 46.82
BRUSSELS 1,952 2,835 -31.15
PISA 1,796 1,968 -8.74
CORK 1,733 837 107.05
SANTORINI 1,685 1,014 66.17
GIRONA 1,490 0 0.00
NEW YORK 1,247 1,024 21.78
STAVANGER 741 1,248 -40.63
SALZBURG 464 877 -47.09
SPLIT 252 1,991 -87.34
VENICE 132 0 0.00
GENOA 130 144 -9.72
ATHENS 0 162 -100.00
HURGHADA 0 1,816 -100.00
SHARM EL SHEIKH 0 5,016 -100.00

[Beatts]

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ryanair-could-establish-uk-unit-as-result-of-brexit-431240/
Interesting read about Ryanairs plans with some seat info at the bottom comparing Newcastle.

[Jamesair]

Looks like much the same scenario for summer 17 with Newcastle expansion.

[Jamesair]

The airport has published the October 2016 stats with Movements at 4,703 (4352) the biggest increase is in freight/mail flights and International with a big reduction in domestic.
Pax stand at 444,660 (418,239) the biggest increase is in International with the expected fall in domestic.

The comparisons are with Oct 15.

[AerRyan]

Is DUB and ORK considered International in the numbers?

[fl dutchman]

The domestic numbers should settle once the discontinued routes of Stansted and Belfast City drops out of the figures.

DUB and ORK are classed as international I believe.

[jensdad]

Last time I was there, Dublin and Cork were listed as 'UK' destinations next to the 'domestic' arrivals area.
Not saying that this affects where they show up on the figures, just that the management of NCL should have a bit more knowledge of their destinations. And maybe a bit of common sense.

[AerRyan]

Have flown into NCL twice from Dublin since august, always go through domestic arrival area and departure area due to the CTA agreement with Ireland.

[jensdad]

Yep, not disputing that RoI arrivals should go through the same arrivals gate as UK arrivals due to the Common Travel Area. Just think it should be labelled as 'UK & RoI arrivals' like it is at Heathrow etc. I spotted it as I was picking someone up from Cork (must have been a few years ago, now I think about it, as they were on Jet2) and I walked straight past the 'UK arrivals' and went to International arrivals. Only when I finally found them loitering at domestic arrivals did I see that Cork was on the list of 'UK' airports (it was a permanent list, not the arrivals board)


To explain my pedantry , I'm a primary school teacher and we teach them at age 6 the difference between England, Great Britain, the UK, the British Isles etc. :)

[HH6702]

See that Ryanair app is showing flights upto march 2018...
Not bookable but the flights on sale this winter same as next so far

[KNIEVEL77]

That was one hell of a turn out of Emergency Services today for the Easy Jet landing.
It was an excellent effort by the Airport Authorities to contain the emergency and get the other traffic running with minimal delay.
But two full emergencies in one day, that must be a first for Newcastle.

[10 DME ARC]

But two full emergencies in one day, that must be a first for Newcastle

Nope......far from it!!!:)

[SWBKCB]

Go on, I'll bite - what was the other one?

[P330]

What was the nature of the emergencies today?

[ash666]

EasyJet flight makes emergency landing at Newcastle Airport due to 'fumes in the cabin' - Chronicle Live (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/easyjet-flight-makes-emergency-landing-12243103)

An easyJet flight had to make an emergency landing in Newcastle after reports of fumes in the cabin.
The flight to Hamburg took off from Edinburgh Airport at 12.40pm today but had to be re-directed to Newcastle International Airport .
The plane landed safely at around 1.25pm and emergency services and fire crews were waiting on the runway.
Airlive.net tweeted: “EasyJet #U26931 to Hamburg diverted due to fumes in the cabin. Spare aircraft on its way to Newcastle.”....................

[EK77WNCL]

What was the other emergency?

[KNIEVEL77]

I believe the other emergency was a helicopter with engine failure.

[LiamNCL]

The EZY aircraft in question was G-EZWX still on ground at NCL

[Kev 1]

Summer 2017 update

Some big gaps in the current Easyjet schedule for the peak months next summer (based on three based aircraft):

Monday - full aircraft spare all day (2 or 3 return trips)
Tuesday - two return trips (AM & early PM)
Wednesday - one return trip (AM only)
Thursday - no gaps
Friday - no gaps
Saturday - one return trip (late PM only)
Sunday - no gaps

The Flybe schedule is also out, with Exeter and Newquay as per this summer though Southampton increases to four daily Monday-Friday, three on a Saturday and two on Sunday respectively. Everything else sees limited changes vs. this year (Almeria is a new destination with Jet2 & Thomas Cook, additional fortnightly Orlando-Sanford with Thomson), with the exception of the previously reported increases by Ryanair.

[Beatts]

NIKI showing to operate the SALZBURG from 22nd of May 2017 to 10th of September 2017.

[SWBKCB]

Coincidentally...

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/air-berlin-sells-niki-as-etihad-approves-new-leisure-432094/

[Jamesair]

Thomson show Niki as flying their Salzburg route every Saturday for the summer 17 season.

[fl dutchman]

Re the earlier post by Kev 1.

Could the spare capacity/ gaps be for new routes yet to be announced ? or are the aircraft going to be used elsewhere during the summer ? Seems really odd reducing the frequency in the peak season. Apparently it is the same situation at some other airports.

Anyone have any ideas??

[HeartyMeatballs]

It is a bit late to announce new routes.

It could be to provide a more robust flying program. Last summer had lots of challenges (some external) and creating gaps COULD be to introduce resilience and bigger firebreaks.

[chaps1954]

Never suprised at how late airlines leave to announce new routes, 1 week for one at Manchester this week and to Iraq as well

Ian

[SWBKCB]

Except for maybe Customer Services, you can't really compare Iraqi Airways and easyJet.

Having been victim of one of easyJets "challenges" earlier this year, I hope this to introduce resilience and bigger firebreaks (although most of the gaps seem to be on the quiet days?). It might need a change of approach though, as they didn't use such gaps to recover the programme in my case.

[HeartyMeatballs]

There are no quiet days in the easyJet summer. It's pretty full on each day of the week with many aircraft spending just a few hours on the ground overnight.

There were no such breaks in the schedule in summer 16 season.

[HH6702]

I think that easyJet maybe playing a safe game by waiting to see what jet2 and Ryanair are doing. I think the gaps will go nearer the time expect extra flights being added when they know what they can sell and what price.

Ryanair coming daily on the Palma will hurt easyJet.
Big question will be how easyJet react???? Add extra or keep the same amount of seats or adjust downwards and add when they need to.

[SWBKCB]

Summer 2017 update

Some big gaps in the current Easyjet schedule for the peak months next summer (based on three based aircraft):

Monday - full aircraft spare all day (2 or 3 return trips)
Tuesday - two return trips (AM & early PM)
Wednesday - one return trip (AM only)
Thursday - no gaps
Friday - no gaps
Saturday - one return trip (late PM only)
Sunday - no gaps

There are no quiet days in the easyJet summer. It's pretty full on each day of the week with many aircraft spending just a few hours on the ground overnight.

So as anybody got an update on post 8412?

[MerchantVenturer]

BRS too has some gaps in July and August. Last month the local newspaper there published an article about easyJet and BRS in which the airline's UK commercial manager is quoted as saying that new BRS routes will be announced in the New Year.

On that basis it is reasonable to speculate that those other 'easyJet airports' that currently also have gaps, including NCL, will see them plugged in some way before the season begins.

[Jamesair]

Post 5832 on BFS INTL thread of interest to NCL readers

[long_final]

Bfs was supposed to op from 'their end' from Sept this year I believe but not happened yet of course. Brs as we know has however, on all but the Sat am rotation in summer with most/all reverting back to ncl based a/c through winter. Would be an awful lot of time each day freed up with often 3x ncl a/c doing the bfs run per day.

[Jamesair]

November stats out on the airport website.

Big increase in Movements from Nov. 2015 at 4,333 (3539) mainly in Freight/mail and Other.

Pax total at 296,167 (269,810) all of the increase in International, small fall in Domestic and IT, big fall in Other.

[AerRyan]

Hows EK doing?

[chaps1954]

18860 pax down 5% on 2015 in October

Ian

[Habana2118]

So now we are mid way through December... is there only one handling agent (swissport) handling all airlines at NCL?

[HH6702]

5% down that's quite a bit.
Anybody know any reason for this maybe?

[Jamesair]

This is the October figure....November hasn't been published yet.

[HH6702]

I'm thinking about the school holiday more in November compared to the year before

[ash666]

I hope they aren't all Swissport.

Airport staff in pre-Christmas strike - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38347283)

Check-in staff, baggage handlers and cargo crew at 18 UK airports plan 48-hour strike from 23 December in a pay row, the Unite Union says.
More than 1,500 workers at Swissport, the world's largest ground and cargo handler, are staging the walkout following a long-running dispute over pay and conditions.
-----------

The Unite Union seems to be trying to cause trouble everywhere.
Come back Maggie, we need you.

[mad_rich]

Didn't Swissport take over all the contracts from Aviator recently?

Anyone know who handles BA at NCL?

I have to say, I have a lot of sympathy for striking workers. (Despite considerable inconvenience this time, as I'm flying to LHR on the 23rd, and later on hoping to travel on Southern Rail to Sussex, exposing me to at least 3 strikes so far, and I wouldn't bet against something hitting TFL too!). Between wages, working conditions, and insecurity of employment, I really get the impression that things are at breaking point, and the guys at the bottom are being asked to carry the can.

[Binder]

Ash

Quote "Come back Maggie we need you"

Be careful where you say that because in certain parts of the North/ North East you'll be (how can I put it?) 'Lynched'!

She may have smashed the Miners' Unions but she devastated and divided Communities leaving them with no future, no hope....nothing.

[ash666]

I'm not getting into prolonged political arguments, this isn't the place (despite my comment ) but a lot of these communities were based on economies that were so inefficient thanks to unions demands that they had no future anyway.
Look at the current train strikes. Even Unite members are saying they are politically motivated.

Good luck to all those with Xmas travel plans.

[SWBKCB]

Ash - you'll find "Jet Blast" down the bottom of the list of Forums.

[NorthEasterner]

Didn't Swissport take over all the contracts from Aviator recently?

Anyone know who handles BA at NCL?

I have to say, I have a lot of sympathy for striking workers. (Despite considerable inconvenience this time, as I'm flying to LHR on the 23rd, and later on hoping to travel on Southern Rail to Sussex, exposing me to at least 3 strikes so far, and I wouldn't bet against something hitting TFL too!). Between wages, working conditions, and insecurity of employment, I really get the impression that things are at breaking point, and the guys at the bottom are being asked to carry the can.

Yes Swissport took over the Aviator contracts as well as the operations staff.

Swissport is the only handling agent for commercial passenger flights, so BA is handled by Swissport. However some of the check in staff have contracts with BA and not directly employed by Swissport.

NE

[NorthEasterner]

So now we are mid way through December... is there only one handling agent (swissport) handling all airlines at NCL?

No, there are 2 handling agents at NCL, Swissport and Samson Aviation Services. Samson only deal with private flights though.

[HH6702]

I see that's LH group have taken full control of SN Brussels and is to rebrand them eurowings next year.

Wonder if they will end the bmi contract and we see A319 on the route?

[oldart]

BA 48 diverting to NCL, 777 from Seattle to LHR.

[AerRyan]

Fog at Heathrow!

0300m!

[SWBKCB]

and this is before they start cutting APD...

Norwegian Air to launch flights to New York from as little as £56 - via Edinburgh - Chronicle Live (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/norwegian-air-launch-flights-new-12385513)

[AerRyan]

*Stewart not New York
*£56 is BS
*probably won't even happen.

[VickersVicount]

...this will happen.

[Cozy F]

Imagine - flights direct from your own doorstep into the general locality of New York, New England, Toronto, Chicago, Florida, West Coast ... where people are largely going, without having the hassle of inflated fares and an intermediate stop in Heathrow, Amsterdam, Dublin, wherever - or in an over-congested US hub. Long overdue. ��

[AerRyan]

Obivously wasn't attractive enough for Newcastle, united came and left.

[VickersVicount]

yes use it or lose it. They didnt and they lost it.

[AerRyan]

That's a bit of an obivous one though, the route clearly failed due to the lack of market, nobody can be blaimed for that.

[Ph1l1pncl]

So what do people think 2017 will bring for Newcastle airport?

Any new airlines?
Expansion of existing airlines at Newcastle?
Or a drop in airlines and passengers due to Brexit and Scottish APD reduction.

[chaps1954]

Europe flights no change and Long haul being squeezed by EDI and MAN so probably backwards

[SWBKCB]

Well, Long haul is only EK and TOM - can't see any change from EK unless they seriously implode, and if anything isn't TOM long haul slightly up for 2017?

Shorthaul - steady expansion from RYR? Looking at recent stats, they seem to be expanding the market rather than splitting it.

No change elsewhere - interesting to see what happens with DUS (i.e. impact of moving up to 319/320, and the various moves within the LH empire) and how VY get on.

[HH6702]

2017.....

More new routes and increases from Ryanair

Charters may see slight increases possible new routes

SN to be branded Eurowings this year so maybe Airbus aircraft used later?

Maybe a new airline but who??

[HH6702]

Can't see the airport wanting DY for New York.

The main reason airport didn't work with Ryanair before now was it didn't want routes to secondary airports miles away from city centres

[rutankrd]

Can't see the airport wanting DY for New York.

The main reason airport didn't work with Ryanair before now was it didn't want routes to secondary airports miles away from city centres

Such policies are long outdated and any airport authority that retains such blind faith in legacy Hub and Spoke deserves to falter.

Just look at Manchester around 2006 up to the global crash and the BA pull out traffic fell from over 21 million right down to 17 million.

Sustained growth has come from embracing this sector.

You need RYR/EZY and LS -they increase footfall immensely, oh and bring in customers that actually spend money in the retail and catering establishments

(Your legacy connector with a business ticket and lounge access doesn't !)

[SWBKCB]

Don't think NCL has been mentioned by DY.

Also worth noting that NCL was an early EZY base as well as having a significant LS presence and retaining the majority of its charter market, so I don't think they can be accused of ignoring LCC's.

The airport have also managed to retain their legacy Hub and Spoke access - important to a regional which has a peripheral position.

[Jamesair]

Other than BMI maybe pushing the Stavanger route to Bergen and maybe a link to Oslo from SAS or maybe Norwegian, it looks like Ryanair continuing expansion with Easyjet trying more routes. Jet 2 seems to have really slowed down on new routes.

Longhaul is clearly in the hands of Thomson now

[Beatts]

Whats your thoughts Thomas Cook?

Recon they will ever give us some summer long haulers for a start?

Also what will happen if they dont give us back the sharm route will TCX give us something different?

[chaps1954]

TCX long haul is now concentrated in just a few airports i:e MAN/LGW/STN and GLA with the
main base being MAN with 6 or 7 A330 next year so probably unlikely NCL

[HH6702]

It's a shame TCX don't do a summer SFB.
Good brand and I'm sure they could fill a 767/330 weekly.

What about Cape Verde could that work from ncl on a 738/321??

[chaps1954]

TCX don`t fly to SFB as they use MCO

[Beatts]

I see, regarding Jet2, were rumoured to have 8 based this summer.

When is EK's anniversary as well, forgotten what it was celebrating as well!

[NorthEasterner]

Ryanair adding capacity to some routes during peak summer months July/August.


Faro 4 x weekly up to 5 x weekly (August)

I believe more is expected either for summer 17 or winter 17/18.

[NorthEasterner]

Emirates Anniversary is 1st September. 1st September the first daily flight and will be it's 10th anniversary in September 2017.


I believe we're still 7 based for Jet2 however could be wrong or may change.

[Beatts]

We will have 2 new ones by Feb, all the QCs will go and we will have 4 x 800s and 3 x 300s.

[mwm991]

Can't see the airport wanting DY for New York.

The main reason airport didn't work with Ryanair before now was it didn't want routes to secondary airports miles away from city centres

Ha, and you think NCL is in a position to turn down operators!?

[EK77WNCL]

Are you sure? Do we not need the QC's for the Royal Mail

[TSR2]

Are you sure? Do we not need the QC's for the Royal Mail

I understand that Jet2 have not renewed the Royal Mail contract.

[VickersVicount]

Surely those QCs must be on their way out and probably dictated any future RM commitment?

[MKY661]

Surely those QCs must be on their way out and probably dictated any future RM commitment?

Three of them have left this Winter, not sure how many more of them will.

[Beatts]

No Jet2 didn't even bid this year for the QC contract, they did however bid and secure the contract for the freighter only out of BFS.

[cornishsimon]

There's a thread on here regarding the new Royal Mail contract which has entirely gone to west Atlantic I think off the top of my head. Jet2 and Titan didn't tender for the contract.


cs

[FRatSTN]

Newcastle is showing in the drop-down menu on the Cobalt website although no flights bookable as yet.

[Jamesair]

They must have removed NCL when they saw your post :-( it only shows STN BHX and MAN now but it might have been premature but not impossible that it could be re-instated.

[HH6702]

Be nice to see them at ncl

[Ph1l1pncl]

Is Newcastle one of the airports that is being affected by SAS decision to cut access to third party lounges for its premium customers? As in one blog I've seen Newcastle mentioned for fast track to be suspended from February but then the next list which is for airports which are continuing access it mentions Newcastle so I'm slightly confused. I've seen its been stopped at Aberdeen so I presume they will stop access to Newcastle too.

[HH6702]

Jet2

NYC winter 2017/18 flights now on sale

[EK77WNCL]

6 flights again, looks like the NYE trips were a flop... Unless they might add them in later, I doubt it though. Glad to see the October half term ones are sticking around, makes me wonder why the Easter flights didn't work

Edit: 7 flights from LBA and 9 from MAN, both have NYE flights and MAN even have one over Christmas, 22-26/12. EMA down to 2, 3 from GLA. I don't think it's a surprise there's still no flights from EDI, I'm also not surprised to see that there will be 1 flight from BFS this year (I thought there might be more). 2 flights from BHX I also expected to see, but I am surprised that there won't be at least a couple from Stansted

[VickersVicount]

Why is there no surprise that there are none from EDI? I dont think there has ever been.

[EK77WNCL]

Because Edinburgh is well/over served transatlantic, as is Glasgow, so it makes sense the low number of flights from Glasgow and none from Edinburgh. If people want to go to New York they'll go United, or Delta or American... Or Norwegian... Even without NAX, It's pretty much a saturated market, but why should that stop EDI throwing airlines and seats at their routes?

For Jet2 though, it strikes me that it probably wouldn't be worth it the way they operate it, with the long EWR layover etc.

[TSR2]

both have NYE flights and MAN even have one over Christmas

Where is NYE ?

[CabinCrewe]

.... Im sure you know exactly where is being referred to given the context of previous posts :rolleyes:

[chaps1954]

It is NYC New York

[VentureGo]

Think he was using NYE to refer to New York Easter flights (as original context) reference to Christmas etc... was added later in discussion,

[LAX_LHR]

Or does he mean New Years Eve flights?

[EK77WNCL]

New Year's Eve...

[A320.b744]

Is the airport actively looking for a replacement for the United service? Norwegian might be interested given they're planning start transatlantic flights to regional airports - EDI/BFS/GLA etc. Can't see American or Delta flying to Newcastle.

[EK77WNCL]

In all honesty I hope Norwegian don't. I'd much rather see someone like Jetblue, with 'Mint' service, IFE in economy, connecting flights and codeshares... A hybrid airline, offering affordable transatlantic flights (not bottom of the barrel, market trashing £60 flights)

Fingers crossed they do get the A321LR and fingers even more crossed that they like the look of what Newcastle has to offer.

By virtue of being a low cost/hybrid airline, business traffic would be limited, so 3/4 weekly flights shouldn't be unattainable

[SWBKCB]

I think recent events have shown that New York isn't the be all and end all - lets move on.

[VentureGo]

I think recent events have shown that New York isn't the be all and end all - lets move on.
Actually, New York is worthy of discussion, so don't be so quick to dismiss and move on! - United charged Premium fares, well above AF/KLM and even BA/AA via their perspective hubs. An operator flying direct competitively with similar fares via hubs would be successful, although I agree current alliance partners are not going to "cannibilise" current trade for direct route, which does open door for LCC direct or other operators such as Icelandair with interesting stopovers! - I'm sure the airport management and route development teams will be looking at what solutuions are best for the Airport while opening up the market for the public.
Other opportunities may be Westjet into Canadian hubs to link into their US connections.

[EK77WNCL]

I thought it was "if at first you don't succeed, try try try again" not "give up and forget you ever thought it might work"

United did well... If the industry nowadays (and especially with the legacies across the pond) wasn't so numbers driven, wanting profits yesterday and they'd given it 2017, maybe even 2018 with an extended schedule... I'm sure it would have grown, and maybe been a success like Emirates

[A320.b744]

I can't see JetBlue operating transatlantic services, and even if they did, NCL would be at the bottom of their list. But honestly I'm surprised that NCL doesn't yet have an Iceland connection. WOW fly to 3 UK destinations, and Icelandair fly to 7 - Belfast City and Bristol have even managed to secure flights so NCL is lagging behind.

You make a very good point EK77WNCL; Emirates has been a huge success story for the airport - who would have thought that a regional airport could support daily 773 flights to Dubai. If United had let the EWR route mature instead of setting high profit targets then I think it would have been a success as well.

[SWBKCB]

"if at first you don't succeed, try try try again"?

How about "Don't chuck good money after bad"?

United did well...

Says who?

Not United, and I think they're the ones who really know.

Not American, who planned flights and then pulled out.

Not the long list of airlines not rushing into the hole left by United

Also, can you really compare the business models of airlines from the USA and EK - they operate in different worlds.

NCL lagging behind? It isn't comparable to BRS, and BHD scrapes in (just) as a DHC8D destination (NCL doesn't), so don't compare apples and oranges again.

NYC demanded a disproportionate amount of effort - any coincidence that RYR turn up in numbers after NYC?

[ATNotts]

How about "Don't chuck good money after bad"?



Says who?

Not United, and I think they're the ones who really know.

Not American, who planned flights and then pulled out.

Not the long list of airlines not rushing into the hole left by United

Also, can you really compare the business models of airlines from the USA and EK - they operate in different worlds.

NCL lagging behind? It isn't comparable to BRS, and BHD scrapes in (just) as a DHC8D destination (NCL doesn't), so don't compare apples and oranges again.

NYC demanded a disproportionate amount of effort - any coincidence that RYR turn up in numbers after NYC?
Regional airports, including bigger ones like BHX (or at least their enthusiast base) are obsessed with direct services to the USA.

In reality it isn't that big a market - 300m or so people, a security system that makes hubbing at a US airport to South American or Canadian destinations horrendous at best; impractical at worst.

If I were NCL management, which I'm glad I'm not, I'd be looking to ensure that Icelandair were in place 2/3 times weekly connecting with their KEF heb, and likewise Aer Lingus at Dublin - then look to Iberia / Iberia Express to open service to Madrid, to connect with their comprehensive South American network.

Emirates are already in place, don't go after a second ME carrier to dilute Emirates business, and instead look for multi daily, or at least business friendly services to link NCL to hubs in FRA and / or MUC.

Then concentrate on the bucket and spade business.

[crewmeal]

If I were NCL management, which I'm glad I'm not, I'd be looking to ensure that Icelandair were in place 2/3 times weekly connecting with their KEF heb, and likewise Aer Lingus at Dublin - then look to Iberia / Iberia Express to open service to Madrid, to connect with their comprehensive South American network.

A very good point and well said ATNotts, but you're forgetting the spotters on here want to see nice big fat aircraft on the tarmac. I don't think they're bothered about the costs involved. Hand on hearts I think they're hoping for a one off EK380 flight for the 10 year anniversary.

[SWBKCB]

and likewise Aer Lingus at Dublin

Aer Lingus already operate multiple times a day to DUB, as do BA to LHR, KL to AMS, AF to CDG.

RYR are starting to MAD.

[ATNotts]

RYR are starting to MAD.

But would I use them to connect for an Iberia long-haul to Santiago? - Well probably not!

[AerRyan]

But would I use them to connect for an Iberia long-haul to Santiago? - Well probably not!

Well you won't be getting Iberia with RYR around.

[SWBKCB]

No, but it reduces the likelihood of an Iberia/Iberia Express link so like DUB, might not be the best use oF NCL management time.

FRA has been actively pursued for many years, but do we need another hub that far east - many Star Alliance frequent flyers in the NE?

[ATNotts]

Well you won't be getting Iberia with RYR around.
BHX managed it, with FR and Norwegian already ensconced - and if you're chasing a more diverse product (business and leisure, connecting as well as point to point) I'd never say never.

But it ain't going to happen if the marketing team's resources are being directed to the sacred cow of direct services to USA!

[SWBKCB]

With respect, BHX has access to a far bigger market than NCL has in the North East - two occupants on MAD-NCL is unlikely, certainly at a frequency that would be business friendly.

[AerRyan]

Apples and oranges.

Heathrow has routes to India but that doesn't change a thing for Newcastle.