NEWCASTLE - 8

[heslop2006]

SAS Brings Return of Newcastle (http://www.routesonline.com/news/36/the-hub/167497/sas-brings-return-of-newcastleas-copenhagen-link/)

Nice to see CPH return! :)

[VentureGo]

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/resources/images/2213968/?type=articleLandscape

Ambitious proposal for new North-East airport should spark new debate (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10025780.Ambitious_proposal_for_new_North_East_airport_shoul d_spark_new_debate/)

"A RADICAL vision for a new North-East international airport has been unveiled, just as the Government considers the future of the UK’s aviation policy.
The ambitious proposal would see the region’s existing airports - Newcastle and Durham Tees Valley (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/search/?search=Tees+Valley) - replaced with a new hub for up to 25 million passengers a year built between the A1 and A19 north of Peterlee (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/search/?search=Peterlee), in east Durham.
The state-of-the-art passenger and freight facility would be situated within 20 miles of the region’s major population centres in County Durham, Teesside (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/search/?search=Teesside), Wearside (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/search/?search=Wearside) and Tyneside (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/search/?search=Tyneside). "

Not a chance! - Best to improve existing links to Newcastle Airport from Teeside to within 45 mins to 1 Hour.

[N707ZS]

Looks like a few jet 2s on the ramp in the drawing.

Waste of money.

VentureGo, the road links are fine at Durham Tees Valley you can drive South to keep out of the traffic jams!

[ncleflights]

yeah the transport links to DTV are very good the only problem is that when you get to the place unless you want to fly via Amsterdam your stuffed. We probably only need one regional airport and the best way forward is to close DTV , the public have already voted with their feet anyway, and concentrate on building growth at NCL.

[N707ZS]

Pointless discussion.

[apaul]

Tonight's Tyne Tees regional news had the ludicrous Peterlee International suggestion as the first news item. The programme's editor must have taken leave of his/her senses.

[apaul]

The airport is appealing against its loss in the Eversheds case. More money for the lawyers. http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2012/11/05/newcastle-airport-appeals-in-bonus-deals-case-61634-32166433/

[JonnyH]

Does anyone know what aircraft types are being used for tomorrow for Jet2's two one off flights to Ostend departing NCL tomorrow for the NUFC match?

Cheers.

[ericlday]

Spotter alert !!!!!!

[CentreFix25]

Thomson thread mentions Newcastle as an all 737 base for next Summer - how many less seats per week is that?

[CentreFix25]

Spotter alert !!!!!!

I recon any spotter that hasn't got all of the Jet2 fleet by now wants sacking - I bet he's on one of them and just curious.

[lap1104]

Does anyone know what aircraft types are being used for tomorrow for Jet2's two one off flights to Ostend departing NCL tomorrow for the NUFC match?

Cheers.

LS6323 was operated by 737-300 G-CELS
LS6331 was operated by 737-800 G-GDFD

[Jamesair]

Just a few of the domestic route pax figures out from the CAA so far.

Eastern must be doing something right on the ABZ routes with pax for OCT showing at 2,750 up 58% from OCT 11. Maybe its the scheduled use of the Emb.jet as well as the frequency increase that is bringing in the pax.

[JonnyH]

Excellent news.

On a different note, I saw that TOM have kept the same amount of based aircrafts at NCL for summer 2013.

I haven't came across the TCX release yet for next summer, does anyone know whether there will be the 4 based aircraft again next summer?

Also, if so, will they all actually be TCX's plane as I remember seeing quite a lot in the last couple of years that they have been leasing planes off different operators such as Mint Airways and they were struggling quite a lot at the end of the summer with lots of tech issues all over the shop and the base being affected and stretched due to tech issues of planes down MAN.

Just curious as I know they're reducing their fleet to cope with there debts.

Cheers.

[CentreFix25]

I read somewhere that the 3rd party aircraft wouldn't be used next year and the base would be down 3 of their own.

[HH6702]

The plan for TCX for summer 2013 is 2x 757 and an airbus from a third party. However the charter programme on the airport website and there own booking website shows the need of 4 based aircradft so still a lot of changes before the summer season

The plan for TOM is 3x 738. however there are rumours that the base will be 4x 738 but flights on sale still show as 3x based aircraft.

However TOM holidays did state that the company is ready to increase regional flights for next summer so we wait and see.

Rumours still around that JET2 will be basing 8 aircraft with some of the flights maybe 1 aircraft operating for TCX holidays...

Still cant find any flight numbers for the AXE and LLC weekly planned flights

** NO YYZ NEXT YEAR **

shame

[JonnyH]

Thanks for the information.

So the A320 will definitely be third party and not TCX? I know they've been using small lynx etc. lately.

Thanks again but it is a shame, I know a lot of people are put off by the fact TCX have had a lot of leased planes off foreign airlines and it is really off putting for some people. If I remember correctly also TCX leased a couple of LS planes last year, on a couple of one offs, so that wouldn't be much of a surprise. I guess it would all depend on the availability of their 733s and 757s.

[ConstantFlyer]

At last night's North East Economic Forum in Newcastle, the speaker, Alex Salmond, was asked if eventual Scottish government control over setting the levels of APD would adversely affect Newcastle Airport by attracting its passengers north.

His response was that Edinburgh and Glasgow Airports wanted to attract passengers from Heathrow, not passengers from Newcastle. Visitor numbers at Edinburgh Castle (a good indicator, apparently) had fallen by 20% during the Olympics as people chose not to visit the UK due to warnings over meltdown at Heathrow. This showed, apparently, the reliance that Scotland had on passengers interlining through Heathrow.

Clearly, should Scottish independence lead to a significant economic upturn north of the border, and a consequent expansion of services and routes from Edinburgh Airport, then growth at Newcastle might be squeezed; however, most commentators - Salmond apart - would class that as highly unlikely. In the meantime, perhaps Newcastle Airport could respond to any perceived 'poaching' by marketing itself as the gateway to southern Scotland?

[HH6702]

Hi

As i was saying things are changing.
just thought i would take a look and it seems things are changing as just found this

IWD3414/3
Orbest monday flight to PMI
arrives 13.45 departs 14:45

could be more will carry on looking
The above flight is for Thomas Cook holidays

[JonnyH]

My flight to Gran Canaria actually in June, which coincidently, is with TCX has been moved from 14.25 to 15.35 so you may be correct.

[HH6702]

Has your airline changed or is it still TCX?

[ncleflights]

constantflyer - If Scotland wins independence and the new Government North of the Boarder scraps APD as they propose Newcastle wont be marketing itself as a gateway to Southern Scotland but rather a giant car park. The effect of the scrapping of APD would have a huge negative impact on Newcastle. The savings of a family travelling, particularly long haul, from Edinburgh would be huge and many will of course make the journey up to Edinburgh in order to save big. This would clearly result in further decline in pax numbers and routes available from NCL as airlines move services to airports across the border quicker than you can say William Wallace.

[deltahotel9]

While you certainly have a valid point the more savy customers may well travel to save a few pounds many families holidaying still want to travel from their LOCAL airport.

The road trip to EDI is not a pleasant experience as its a single carriageway road for much of the way, clogged with trucks if you time it wrong. The train doesn't go to the airport so that's not a great alternative.

Business travellers won't move to EDI en masse either as they want to travel to where their work is, why spend 2 hours travelling from EDI to a meeting in the North East when your flight from Europe was only 90 minutes in the first place?

A lower or zero rate Scottish APD is certainly a great concern to the airport but not necessarily the doomsday scenario painted here.

[Hipennine]

There seems to be an assumption here that if the jocks get rid of APD, the airlines operating out of EDI will pass on that benefit in fare levels. If they are sensible businesses, they will just retain the cost reduction as enhanced profit. Why would EZY for eg choose to compete with itself on EDI -ALC or NCL- ALC ? There's very few direct airline competitive routes out of EDI that would motivate one of the competitors to drop fares, and that would only be a short term gain.

Admittedly, low APD in EDI might help any new jock based airline that saw itself in competion with english originating routes.

The bigger risk might be to the East coast and West coast rail franchises.

[Robert G Mugabe]

Newcastle airport says it is hoping to secure agreement from interested airlines in the first half of the year on a plan to resume regular flights to New Zealand.

Customs officials visited the airport in December to inspect the existing terminal and provide their specifications for facilities including baggage search rooms and x-ray services.

Airport business development manager, David Nye says current plans for a small terminal expansion can be modified to cater for international passengers.

"We're in a good position in terms of having the plans in place and it is just a case of continuing dialogue with the border agency group and the airlines," he said.

"If everything goes well, it's still a case of having to build something, but it's not a huge terminal expansion, it will be something modest, but it is more optimistic."

The above from ABC News Australia reference Newcastle NSW. As much relevance to EGNT as Flights to New York and Alex Salmond harping on about Jock APD.

F@£K EGNT cannot even sort out an aircrew route through security. Backward. Will never change when local councils are shareholders.

[ncleflights]

Scotland APD

First Edinburgh airport is about to get easier to get to for NE travellers, next year the first tram route opens from Princess Street straight to the airport. This effectively means you could get off the train at Edinburgh cross the road and get the tram to the airport.

Finally the airlines would have to pass on the savings with the scrapping of APD. If you read the draft policy document produced by a future Independent Scotland you'll find that the new government will fine airlines that don't! The airlines are also in the business of making money and I have no doubt that easyjet for example will have no calms in removing the last three based aircraft from Newcastle to Edinburgh if they see Edinburgh as a more profitable option. Evidence of this already exists remember the easyjet expansion went into reverse at Newcastle when they opened a competing base at Edinburgh.

I have no doubt that once the word gets out that families could save £400, £500 or £600 by travelling long haul from Edinburgh then they will vote with the wallet and travel up the road. We already have an example of this in Belfast where long haul traffic collapsed as folks travelled from Dublin to save the APD and I can assure you it is a lot easier to get from Newcastle to Edinburgh than from Belfast to Dublin.

Potential Independence for Scotland will have the biggest impact on flights from Newcastle than any other airport in England simply because of its proximity to Scotland and the number of passengers it already has from the boarders area. While the effect on business traffic may not be great, the effect on low cost operations and long haul will be huge.

[andrewmcharlton]

and of course unless something truly drastic and against the odds occurs then Scotland will continue to be part of the United Kingdom and the waffle of Alex Salmond will drift into oblivion.....

[HH6702]

Edi will be easier to get to from next year when the trams start run??
What is wrong with the airport shuttle buses outside the station it's takes 20 mins?? Can't really see the trams making much difference!!

[Jamie2k9]

I have no doubt that once the word gets out that families could save £400, £500 or £600 by travelling long haul from Edinburgh then they will vote with the wallet and travel up the road. We already have an example of this in Belfast where long haul traffic collapsed as folks travelled from Dublin to save the APD and I can assure you it is a lot easier to get from Newcastle to Edinburgh than from Belfast to Dublin.


Could you tell me what Long Haul routes Belfast lost to DUB. APD only pushed United service into losses as it was already a very marginal route and it will always be like that. Belfast lost a few long haul Holiday flights of which none were operated from Dublin apart from MCO which was always popular with people from NI even though they had there own charters. The problem is the economy and people can't afford to go on long haul holidays and APD added to the losses.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "There seems to be an assumption here that if the jocks get rid of APD, the airlines operating out of EDI will pass on that benefit in fare levels. If they are sensible businesses, they will just retain the cost reduction as enhanced profit. Why would EZY for eg choose to compete with itself on EDI -ALC or NCL- ALC ? There's very few direct airline competitive routes out of EDI that would motivate one of the competitors to drop fares, and that would only be a short term gain.

Admittedly, low APD in EDI might help any new jock based airline that saw itself in competion with english originating routes.

The bigger risk might be to the East coast and West coast rail franchises."

Differential APD is not a good idea, very low flat rate APD, or better still, no APD is.


Quote: "The above from ABC News Australia reference Newcastle NSW. As much relevance to EGNT as Flights to New York and Alex Salmond harping on about Jock APD."

So it's "Newcastle-Woolsington" from now is it? "Newcastle International" may no longer be unique.

"London-Newcastle"? Just don't go there!


Quote: "and of course unless something truly drastic and against the odds occurs then Scotland will continue to be part of the United Kingdom and the waffle of Alex Salmond will drift into oblivion....."

Hope so! Significant, isn't it, that "wee Eck" doesn't want to have a Scottish pound (punt).

Quote: "Edi will be easier to get to from next year when the trams start run??
What is wrong with the airport shuttle buses outside the station it's takes 20 mins?? Can't really see the trams making much difference!!"

Don't tell me the trams will be up and running soon! Don't believe it!

[ncleflights]

jamie2k9 - The NI assembly had to ask Westminster for special dispensation on APD as United had already announced they were pulling New York. They received this however Newcastle will not get such help.

I have worked on this issue for sometime and I can assure you that some folks working in the NE Aviation sector are getting more worried as the pole gap on the possibility of Scottish Independence narrows

[Jamie2k9]

jamie2k9 - you already answered your own question. Those long haul routes that Belfast lost the passenger numbers increased on the corresponding flights to those destinations from Dublin

The NI assembly had to ask Westminster for special dispensation on APD as they were United had already announced they were pulling New York. They received this however Newcastle will not get such help.

I have worked on this issue for sometime and I can assure you that their are some very worried folks in the NE Aviation sector

Don't agree at all as the long haul routes that Belfast lose were purely dependent of leasue travelers and only operate peak times of the year. Incomes are squeezed and family Holiday is high on the list of things to be stopped. This belief that everybody is traveling to Dublin is a load of crap as its not the case its purely down to the fact people are replacing Florida etc with Spain and Portugal. United were not charging passengers for APD in NI to remain completive to DUB and keep passengers at BFS but I believe that United would like to pull out of Belfast regardless of APD as its already a marginal route. Growth at DUB is down to EI developing their Hub and increase in passengers coming to DUB from the US and not leaving Ireland both sides or the border and if I could post detail to back it up I would but I can't.

APD dropped in NI will have zero benefit to the region as no new US carrier will launch a route form BFS to the US or Canada they will go where they can make money and have access to a wider market and can be accessed easier for everybody and that is DUB. All major cities and towns in Ireland now have 24/7 bus service and a motorway to the airprot from most areas the airport can be accessed around 3h and this is why airlines will pick DUB.

BTW Aer Lingus cut there own MCO service from DUB last year and that shows the state of the leisure market....

[Hipennine]

"First Edinburgh airport is about to get easier to get to for NE travellers, next year the first tram route opens from Princess Street straight to the airport. This effectively means you could get off the train at Edinburgh cross the road and get the tram to the airport." - have you attempted to find a vacant parking space at any of the key East Coast Stations in NE England recently (and if you find a space, being able to afford the car parking fee)? A fairly strong disincentive to the rail option, even before lugging baggage from Waverley up the hill to Princess Street, followed by a crowded long tram ride.

"Finally the airlines would have to pass on the savings with the scrapping of APD. If you read the draft policy document produced by a future Independent Scotland you'll find that the new government will fine airlines that don't! "
Well it will be interesting to see how an independent Scottish admin survives if they effectively start placing caps on the profit margin that a business can generate.

"Evidence of this already exists remember the easyjet expansion went into reverse at Newcastle when they opened a competing base at Edinburgh."
EZY expansion went into reverse when Jet2 set up camp in NCL, and provided competition, and arguably that's why EDI then became a more profitable base.

[skhwoody]

Scottish APD, will never happen, because when Salmond has to actually balance the books with all his promises the perverbial will hit the fan.

He is so far extended on his overdraft he will lose all veto. They cannot raise their own tax from the current taxtion without a large handout from the UK, and do you think the rest of the UK will be happy to subsidise a tax cut north of the border which affects everyone beneath it.


Everything that is a popular headline grabbing tax policy is promised. But as with him it is all hot air. It will never happen.

[VentureGo]

APD affects ALL UK Airports - and Especially Regional International Airports like Newcastle - If Edinburgh acheived advantage on APD over NCL then it Would affect Long Distance Services adverseley from Newcastle.
Salmond is a prolific ( definition: . "producing constant or successful results") Scottish political leader and will vigourously pursue all policies to give all Scotland policies an advantage over other Europen states, incuding the UK. Scotland has a population of over 5million (More than the Republic of Ireland) and much more wealth in terms of natural resources - Oil, Gas, Whisky. etc... ) - So don't be premature re. Salmond's early departure from politics!
Newcastle need to secure Long Distance routes to USA and beyond without punitive APD. So... Align with Scotland to resist APD (or at least revolt if Scotland achieve an unfair competitive advantage in their Airports "just over the border")

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Salmond is a prolific ( definition: . "producing constant or successful results") Scottish political leader and will vigourously pursue all policies to give all Scotland policies an advantage over other Europen states, incuding the UK. Scotland has a population of over 5million (More than the Republic of Ireland) and much more wealth in terms of natural resources - Oil, Gas, Whisky. etc... ) - So don't be premature re. Salmond's early departure from politics!"

Indeed, "wee 'Eck" is one of the shrewdest politicians in the UK. So much so, that his party, the SNP, is a one man band.

Alec Salmond was leader before, then he quit, and was replaced by the rlatively uncharasmatic John Swinney, and at that time, the SNP's popularity sunk like a stone. Then they brought Salmond back as leader and the rest is history.

Definitely not a man to be underestimated. Despite this, whether he has the ability to wreck the UK is a moot point. There is no room for complacancy, the unionists of all parties will have to up their game.

[VentureGo]

What is your point? ! - Low APD would be beneficial to all including the economy!

[Hipennine]

I don't particularly buy this argument that a low/no APD at EDI will have a serious effect on NCL long distance. The paying punter is only interested in the total amount of money the fare (or whole trip if they are a bit more sophisticated) will cost. If just cost, and not the convenience of flying from the local airport is not a critical part of the selection process, NCL would have nearly no long distance pax. Whenever I'm off anywhere, and the cost is coming out of my pocket, I always look at fares ex MAN and LHR (as a minimum) as well as NCL, and most of the time, the cost ex LHR is way less than NCL (I mean even after taking into account the travel by car or train and potential hotel associated with LHR), such that sometimes it is definitely worth the aggro - the fare differentials can be way more than the value of the total APD.

Similarly with short haul, the premium you can pay for flying from NCL vs LS or MAN or EMA (and especially LTN,or STN or BRS) if you are prepared to travel a bit on the motorway would suggest that if this was a consideration, NCL would have no traffic at all. I just don't see how some cheaper net fares ex EDI will outweigh the pedestrian traipse over the single carriageway speed camera alleys of the A68 or A1, and then round the Edinburgh by-pass (remember that many people on here complain about the relative inaccesibility of NCL from south of the Tyne because of the western bypass!). Nor the cost of ECML train fares at peak periods (unless Salmand is going to subsidise those as well !).

[apaul]

I very much doubt that Salmond would change APD significantly in an independent Scotland as like the UK government he needs the revenue. He's more likely to change APD if the power is devolved to the Scottish government but it is not going to have a massive effect on Newcastle and APD would probably go back up after the independence referendum.

[chris1001]

Lets change the record. APD debate is starting to get tedious.

[chris1001]

On a different subject, anyone noticed the sky high prices being charged by EasyJet and Jet2 from NCL lately to Spain. £250 return seems to be the new norm. Xmas flights now over £400+ return for many dates and that is before the add ons.

I booked one way tickets with Ryanair and Jet2 back to UK in September. Had to pay in euros. When checking my statement weeks later I was horrified to learn that Jet2 €/£ conversion was a paltry 1.09. At the time, GBP was worth around 1.25 euros. Even Ryanair rate was a fair 1.22 euros.

Ryanair gets such bad press but Jet2 are driving pax away with their greed. It is bad enough having to pay ridiculously expensive fees for baggage, negotiate around the hard sell for allocated seats (which I reckon 70% of pax fall for), then the extortionate credit card fees and that is before the final rip off on the exchange rate if booking one way inbound seat. I rang their call centre (on an 0870 number) to tell them of the sour taste I feel every time I book with them - I honestly feel as if I have been mugged when booking flights with them.

I fully understand that they cannot fly at a loss but why do they have to be so underhand? To me it looks like pax are now voting with their feet hence big capacity cuts to Spain. If they were more transparent, perhaps they would stimulate demand again.

[fl dutchman]

Chris1001

Just curious about capacity cuts to spain ??

There are however some cuts again to LHR. Currently one rotation per day down to 5 for some of Nov and January. I believe in mid Jan on Mon and Tue its down to just 4 rotations.

A return departing tommorrow morning returning Wed evening is about £545 (lowest available fare) so the capacity cuts are certainly increasing the LHR fares.

LGW is also down to 2 per day on Mon and Tuesdays. Is this route going to continue ? I am sure if it was upgraded to jet equipment the pax nos would increase. Currently they seem to be falling at an alarming rate.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "What is your point? ! - Low APD would be beneficial to all including the economy!"

Agreed,VentureGo, and stated as much in post #3,287. My words in that post were:

"Differential APD is not a good idea, very low flat rate APD, or better still, no APD is."

So we are at one on this!

[Jamesair]

The new SAS NCL - Copenhagen service is now showing on their website, operates Mon - Fri.

[fl dutchman]

Also on Sundays, but that starts a bit later.

[andrewmcharlton]

Chris,

Saw your post and stirred my curiosity.

I'm not sure what the scoop is on exchange rates and perhaps others will know more. I know that Jet2 let me pay with debit cards for free whilst Ryanair require me to have either a Mastercard Cash Passport or guess what a pre-paid Ryanair Card.

Ryanair gets such bad press but Jet2 are driving pax away with their greed.

Let's compare....

It is bad enough having to pay ridiculously expensive fees for baggage, negotiate around the hard sell for allocated seats (which I reckon 70% of pax fall for), then the extortionate credit card fees

Jet2 booking fee NIL
Ryanair Booking Fee - £6

Jet2 Airport Check In - NIL
Ryanair Airport Check In - £60

Jet2 Booked Seat - £5.99
Ryainair Reserved Seating - £10.00

Jet2 Sports Equipment - £25
Ryanair Sports Equipment - £50

Jet2 2 Bags Fee - £32.98
Ryanair 2 Bags Fee - £50 - £90

It seems like you've maybe had a bad day but when I booked with Jet2 I simply clicked "Continue" to avoid any seat charges and they are considerably cheaper than Ryanair (your example I have not beef either way). All airlines try to upsell. I just booked a trip with BA who try to sell me hotels, insurance, booked seat costs etc too, so nothing new there.

Not sure why you picked up on Jet2 being "greedy" but doesn't really stack up compared to the the rest of the carriers.

[apaul]

Not quite true that airport check-in is free with Jet2. It's £9 extra with hand luggage. Maybe you are confusing Jet2 with easyJet. It also annoys me that if you have hold luggage there is no free way of checking in with Jet2. However, I do agree with the general thrust that Ryanair's extra charges are worse. With Jet2 you can take a full-size cabin bag on board without paying anything more than the headline price. That's certainly not the case with O'Leary's mob, nor, because of the booking fee, easyJet.

[Jamesair]

Good news......FLYBE have now uploaded Limoge (sat) and Newquay (sat) onto their summer timetable.

[cornishsimon]

such a shame the NQY route is back as once weekly again this year, this route previously ran more frequencies on the smaller DH8-300 under SZ


cs

[GrahamK]

Stats for October:
Brussels +1%
Paris CDG +13%
Dusseldorf flat
Dublin +16%
Amsterdam +3%
Stavanger +5%
Dubai -4% despite larger a/c...

[CabinCrewe]

DXB -4 %.... Mmmm.:ooh:

[Jamesair]

It is a bit strange after the excellent month for DUBAI in September.

[Ph1l1pncl]

Didn't October have a fair few 777-200LR fights which have less seating capacity at 266 than the A330 which was 278. Plus the other 777-200ER flights still have less than the 427/442 seating capacity of the 777-300ER which we are supposed to receive. Maybe the substitution of aircraft more in October than October 2011 brought the figures down by the 4%.

[macuser]

There were five weekends in Sep as opposed to four in Oct. Might have skewed the figures even though it is a daily flight.

[CaptainDoony]

The figs are compared with October 2011 - not the previous month.

Could it just be that less people are using the route overall??? :rolleyes:

They're only going to sub a/c if the numbers are embarrassingly low on that particular day.

[macuser]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. However, as it happens, five weekends Oct 2011 compared to four Oct 2012. There could still be an effect.

[CaptainDoony]

No probs:ok:

The number of days doesn't change of course so the decline really can be put down to a decline in demand.

[OltonPete]

Hopefully October was just a blip, as they don't make good reading: -

Pax 13215 down 4%

Using planespotters.net: -

2 (77W) flights by 442 seat aircraft

11 (77W) by 428

1 (77W) by 364

8 (77W) by 360

1 (77W) by 354

2 (772ER) by 346

6 (77L) by 266

I make that 22956 which equates to 57.5% load factor.

Glasgow, Birmingham & Manchester were in the mid to high 70's but of course much more mature routes.

Pete

[Ringwayman]

The imponderable question is what the cargo loads were like. I assume that may have been the driving factor for the upgrade rather then passenger numbers (if the usual A330s were used, I believe loads would have been around 75% or so)

[skyman771]

Ref EK
I have always had the view that to an extent NCL LF's can & are controlled by EK marketing, whether this be pricing or direct advertising. On the times that I have used the route it has been abundantly clear that a significant number of the pax originated from north of the border attracted principally by significantly lower fares than those offered at GLA.
Clearly such a situation is not sustainable & a decline on such pax may contribute to the position now being experienced at NCL.:(

[SWBKCB]

Why unsustainable? Without wanting to re-ignite the APD discussions, southern Scotland is as much in NCL's catchement area as GLA's.

You get the impression that the guys running EK aren't stupid, so if they've upgraded from the 332 when they don't have to, I'm sure they've good commercial reasons

[ash666]

Glasgow can't be doing too badly with EK:
Glasgow Airport: Emirates introduces second Boeing 777 on Glasgow - Dubai route (http://www.glasgowairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/emirates-introduces-second-boeing-777-on-glasgow-_-dubai-route)

[HH6702]

You can't compare Glasgow airport with ncl for the route.
Glasgow had been running a lot longer than ours

Also Glasgow plan was always a 777 2x daily from January next year this is due to the A340-300 leaving the fleet so they had to upgrade it.

The A330 are also leaving the fleet hence why ncl is now a daily 777!

I'm sure that both airports are makin money.
Remember passengers are only half the story it's what is carried in the hold too that is makin money.

I also think that KLM/AF are starting to fight back as there numbers are rising each month how ever I haven't had the time yet to compare prices between all of the airlines.

If in 12/18 months time the passenger numbers are down still then worry but if we are down is every other uk airport down too.

Think people need to look at the route as a hold and every other uk airport not just comparing us to Glasgow.

I've heard that bhx figures are down too but Manchester increasing but this maybe due to other long haul carriers there too and also they have the big airbus...

I'm sure there is nothing to worry about

[Flitefone]

Worth a read:

Emirates to Introduce 777 on Second Glasgow Rotation :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/36/the-hub/170340/emirates-to-introduce-777-on-second-glasgow-rotation/?utm_source=the-hub&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=the-hub-EU)

[Ringwayman]

From the routes online article, this sentence stands out:
"Latest figures for September 2012 show an 18.4 per cent increase over the same month last year"


It's not that big an increase in passengers if you look at what the increase in capacity is even though there's hardly any competition for them at GLA. Having made the jump to a notional daily 77W at NCL but seeing lowish loads, it may be some considerable time before they go down the route of adding frequency to NCL

[Tom the Tenor]

Greetings from Cork, sorry to intrude. Just wondering what would be a routine flight time from Newcastle to Dubai, please?

The holiday season is all but upon us again so I am sure the load factors on the EK DXB-NCL will improve nicely once again.

What a pity did not get the AA JFK service a few years ago - have there been some Jet2 seasonal shopping flights to New York?

Thanks. :ok:

[ash666]

I don't fly EK myself as I hate splitting a journey in the middle but can thoroughly recommend the Premium Economy with AF.

[nclops]

Hi Tom, the flight time from NCL to DXB is usually around the 6 and a half hour mark.
Jet 2 are doing the usual seasonal December flights to New York, the first one went out on Thurs.

[HH6702]

Ncl ops do you know if the new yrk flights were full?

[Jamesair]

re EK.

I seem to remember that when the 777 was announced there was also a statement from the Cargo Manager at EK in NCL extolling the freight carrying capacity expansion and how it was much needed in order to continue the rapid growth in this field.

[Tom the Tenor]

Thank you, nclops, for the update. Very interesting. As far as I know Newcastle is set up as an example for Cork in case a further runway extension will ever be justified - the Cork runway is around 2133 metres and the Newcastle runway is at 2333 metres so that round figure of 200 metres fits the bill in the Cork mindset. Let us hope that one day the extra 200 metres wll be justified!

What about that AA flight - JFK-ORK-NCL-JFK? Now, there is an idea, and if not by AA how about Jet2! :D

[JKKne]

Lots of diversions today. Assume Newcastle is shut which is odd, didn't it hold a record for never closing in 2010 during severe snow? Some flights have gone to the mystical land of Teesside

[ash666]

I see EK is holding overhead. Could Teeside or EDI take it?

[Richard Taylor]

'I see EK is holding overhead. Could Teeside or EDI take it? '

We'll take it!!! :}

[ash666]

I assume it landed eventually. Glad they had enough fuel!

[Grahamy]

Yes it landed and some of the other dirvirted flights have arrived fron EDI & MME just as the heavy snow hits again

[VentureGo]

AF & BA Holding for at least 20mins (Again) returning from EDI & MME, where they were diverted earlier - Another BA Shuttle due to join them!!

Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! (http://www.flightradar24.com/)

[fl dutchman]

They have all landed now.

[GrahamK]

EK alternate is MAN or GLA I believe

[ash666]

"EK alternate is MAN or GLA I believe"

Thanks!

[VentureGo]

Councils should sell their Newcastle Airport
stake, to save jobs and services.
The Journal, December 5th 2012

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/nejournal/oct2012/7/5/freddy-shepherd-image-2-873379564.jpg

SCATHING cuts to council services and jobs could be avoided if council leaders, including Newcastle City, sell off their stake in Newcastle Airport, it was claimed today. Conservative councillors have said the time has come for the North East’s seven local authorities get out of the airport business and offload their shares.

The councils between them, including Northumberland and Newcastle, own a 51% stake in the airport, but have also had to spend £68m to help refinance its debts. In exchange the authorities receive on average just £500,000 a year in dividends, as well as a say over bigger airport issues.

The councils’ stake in the airport has come under greater scrutiny following a high-profile court case over the legal advice which allowed a controversial former airport chief executive to walk away with a multi-million pound bonus. At the hearing, which the airport lost but is trying to appeal against, a judge made repeated references to the councils’ lack of experience in running an airport.

Now Conservatives in Sunderland have said enough is enough and called for a sale. These calls follow on from North Tyneside elected Tory mayor Linda Arkley, who has already refused to have any part in the airport refinancing.


Read More - http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-e...#ixzz2EAQSZKZz (http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2012/12/05/councils-should-sell-newcastle-airport-stake-to-save-jobs-and-services-61634-32363689/#ixzz2EAQSZKZz)

[VentureGo]

Seems Flights to Toronto via above have been withdrawn for next Summer. Booking tool will book via London Gatwick from Newcastle (Flybe connecting flights) Exeter flights are via Glasgow, also using Flybe to connect.

[HH6702]

Correct these flights got pulled. it did get stated on here a while ago.

If you look at airport charter timetable for 2013 on airport website you can see what is planned.

However this will change and TCX is shown as 4 aircraft needed but we know they are only going to base 3 so some more changes to happen and to update the airport

[Jamesair]

At least we have one more tour operator next year. Are we going to get any more new destinations from Jet 2 for 2013?

[HH6702]

It's all gone quiet from them at the minute.
Heard they will be adding extra aircraft to ncl

Same with regarding the extra TOM aircraft.

Makes me think that they are awaiting on what work if any they can pick up from Thomas cook

[Jamesair]

Announcements on new routes for everywhere else from various airlines seem to be coming thick and fast this week...keep hoping I will see NCL featured.

[Jamesair]

LONDON HEATHROW 42,752 (1)
AMSTERDAM 24,133 (2)
PARIS (CDG) 17,420 (5)
ALICANTE 17,081 (4)
BELFAST INT. 16,205 (8)
BRISTOL 14,635 (-)
DUBLIN 14,511 (10)
PALMA 14.447 (3)
MALAGA 13,822 (7)
DUBAI 13,215 (6)

The changes reflect the change from summer to winter, although Alicante is unchanged at number 4. However, AMS and CDG must reflect the increasing interchange traffic using these two points..was this at the expense of Dubai in October?

[apaul]

Paris probably reflects Air France using larger aircraft and the last hurrah of easyJet on the route. I expect the numbers will drop now there is no competition. With easyJet shifting to Amsterdam numbers should still be strong there.

[Jamesair]

I'm hoping we see better traffic figures all round for November with it including the half-term holidays which took place in October last year. Maybe that partly explains the poor Dubai comparison figure last month.

[JonnyH]

Why have BA, over the last 2 days, cancelled 75% of their flights on the LHR-NCL?

[HOODED]

Same reason they have on LHR-LBA and lots of other domestic routes fog at LHR reducing slot availability.

[compton3bravo]

I will tell you jonnyH one stupid reason why some of your Newcastle services have been cancelled today - allowing at the present time a Monarch charter flight from Finland due to arrive this evening eta 1940 - and then position to Luton! I bet many of the delayed passengers at Heathrow, Newcastle etc would be really pleased about that if they knew. Heathrow Airport Ltd - the proverbial p**s up and brewery springs to mind!

[ericlday]

C3B Can you confirm that MON173P inbound to LTN from LHR does the MON9173 from RVN to NCL, then carries pax to LHR before positioning to LTN ?

[fl dutchman]

NCL has had 5 out of 6 flights from LHR cancelled today.(aprox 80%)

LBA has had 2 out of 4 (50%)

MAN has had 6 out of 12 (50%)

ABZ has had 3 out of 8 (aprox 38%)

EDI has has 4 out of 12 (aprox 33%)

GLA has had 2 out of 12 (aprox 16%)

That is correct as at 17 45 hrs and may change as the day progresses but it certainly shows where the priorities lie. ( hope I have done the sums correctly )

[HH6702]

im sure that BA will have had a look at the loading too before they canx a flight.

just shows how quiet the NCL-LHR flights were today compared to say LHR-ABZ or MAN!!??

[ash666]

tomorrow's 8am already cancelled

[fl dutchman]

ash666 thats because the last flight from LHR tonight cancelled.

HH6702 try telling that to the 500 + people booked to fly LHR NCL on todays cancelled flights.

Nothing worse than flying in from LAX at 13.30 to find your connection to NCL is cancelled and all the following flights are also cancelled for the rest of the day. But if you were flying on to EDI, MAN etc there are some flights running and a seat is possible.

Surely they could have managed one flight this afternoon/evening.

[ash666]

by the sound of it the fog lifted quite some time ago.

[deltahotel9]

Always the same, we have discussed this many times before, NCL always the first to be cancelled and most savage cuts too, no competition on NCL-LHR route for BA so no chance of pax changing their preferred operator in future so easy option for them.

[compton3bravo]

No Eric it is going straight to Heathrow and then positioning to Luton. It is an A320. Does make you wonder what the heck is going on. Scheduled services cancelled but lets a Santa charter in! The Daily Mail might be interested me thinks.

[ericlday]

Many thanks for the info....yes v interesting

[fl dutchman]

Deltahotel9

Appreciate what you say about no competition on the NCL LHR route. However at the moment there is none on LHR. MAN,ABZ,EDI,GLA and the flights to these places are always less effected than LHR NCL.

[Suzeman]

Heathrow Airport Ltd - the proverbial p**s up and brewery springs to mind!

I'm sure Heathrow Airport Ltd would love to be able to
a) control the fog and
b) what flights BA operate.

But a) they can't and
b) they don't

Take aim again please :ok:

[fozi999]

I would also suggest that all the other airports will have higher yielding passengers than NCL. They do right to keep their most profitable customers happy.

Also the train between London and NCL isn't too bad.

[Jamesair]

CORK .... 1874 + 24%
DUBLIN .... 11,593 + 9%
AMSTERDAM... 23,616 + 18%
FARO... 3428 + 17%
PRAGUE ... 2453 + 32%
DUBAI ... 13,120 + 5% an increase this month
PARIS... 11,839 - 24% ezy leaving the route
DUSSELDORF ... 2957 - 26% reduction in frequency from 2 to 1 daily

ABERDEEN ... 2902 + 40%% increased frequency larger a/c
BELFAST INT... 18,428 + 17%% larger a/c
BRISTOL ... 15,931 + 9%
EXETER ... 2875 + 101% v. Good performance
IOM ... 350 + 27%
SOUTHAMPTON ... 8135 + 12%

BIRMINGHAM ... 944 - 25%
CARDIFF ... 1124 - 12%

[Hipennine]

"Also the train between London and NCL isn't too bad"

You clearly haven't been on it over recent weeks. During Monday night's debacle, the guard admitted that there were no compensation claim forms on the train because they had run out after all the recent problems. Still, I suppose that there is comfort that, unlike the plane, if you are more than 1 hour late at destination, East coast Trains does give you a full credit against the ticket.

[Jamesair]

LONDON HEATHROW.....41,238 (1)
AMSTERDAM...............23,616 (2)
BELFAST INT..............18,428 (5)
BRISTOL ...................15,931 (6)
DUBAI.......................13,120 (10)
PARIS CDG.................11,839 (3)
DUBLIN......................11,593 (7)
ALICANTE .................10,155 (4)
SOUTHAMPTON .......... 8,135 (-)
LONDON GATWICK........7,143 (-)

Main change is Paris with Easyjet pulling off the route and newcomers Southampton and London Gatwick. Apart from Alicante the holiday flights have now dropped out.

[Jamesair]

Another new foreign Charter operator for summer 13.

NCL - NBE (Enfidha) SAT... IN.. 1815 OUT.. 1905.. WKLY.. 20/7 - 26/10

operated by Syphax Airlines for Just Sunshine.

[Charlie98]

Has Newcastle lost Air Malta for 2013 :uhoh:

[JonnyH]

Have TCX decided yet whether they will be sticking with 3 aircraft plus a leased aircraft, as last year, to fill in the gaps on the Summer timetable or are they sticking 4 up there? As I know it was undecided a few months ago.

[HH6702]

TCX is 3 based aircraft for Summer 2013 not 4 based

2x 757 and
1x A320 (leased aircraft)

The rest of the work has gone out to tender as far as im aware

Thomson, Jet2, Monarch are the UK based airlines hoping to pick up some of the work.

IWD has picked up the Monday PMI flights so maybe IWD,AEA are hoping to gain some more of the spanish routes??

hopefully more will be known in the new year

[Jamesair]

Palma goes up from 8 to 9 weekly flights for the peak period.

[HH6702]

No we still have air Malta on Tuesday evening

Good news about jet2

[FANS]

How much money have the councils had out of their shareholding over the years?

[RIDLER]

I'm sure you'll find the answers some where within previous published company accounts, not on a spotters forum. :ugh:

[Jamesair]

I'm sure it is a matter of public record but I'm not sure where you would source the information. Each Public Authority involved would have to record it's dividend receipt. The Airport is 51% Public and 49% Private ownership.

[SWBKCB]

Newcastle Airport investor says Tyneside should look to US for growth - Today's News - News - JournalLive (http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2012/12/31/newcastle-airport-investor-says-tyneside-should-look-to-us-for-growth-61634-32517883/)

Boe Pahari, AMP’s head of infrastructure, said the company was very much a long-term investor. He added: “Newcastle has excellent potential, there are no other airports really within two hours’ drive. In the region the unemployment rate is falling, there is a lot here. We think we can bring in some expertise to support the other shareholders and the airport team, who are very strong already. It’s early days for us, but we are very upbeat about this. There are areas of development we can explore, obviously in terms of route expansion and the site itself.”

[JKKne]

He also said...

Asked if the US was an option, he said: “Everything is on the table, we want to explore that, yes.”

Guessing the local press needing feeding it's annual US story

[N707ZS]

Must of been drinking his tinnys. Didn't realise it was more than a two hour drive to Teesside.

[JKKne]

I guess he/they don't consider DTV a threat which at the moment, it simply isn't.

With all respect to that airport and it's staff

[Hipennine]

Doesn't take me anywhere near 2 hours to get to LBA either !

[GrahamK]

Not big news but I see the airport website has had a bit of a makeover.

[Jamesair]

Frequency for summer 2013 increased from 8 to 10 using an Alicante based 737-300 for two additional rotations on Mon/Thurs...IN 0935...OUT 1040

[FANS]

I'm sure you'll find the answers some where within previous published company accounts, not on a spotters forum.

Riddler - welcome to Pprune. It was very good of you to join just to tell me that statement of the obvious, or is Riddler just one of your usernames.

[LAX_LHR]

Confirmed that NCL will be the next UK airport to see the Thomson B787.

Tuesdays from 1st April on the Cancun flights:

First Choice | Thomson Dreamliner Flying Schedule (http://www.firstchoice.co.uk/sun-holidays/longhaul-holidays/787-dreamliner/787-dreamliner-flying-schedule/index.html)

Towards bottom of page.

[wouldhave]

Note that it is winter 2013/14 timetable to Cancun where Newcastle will see the dreamliner not 1 April 2013 - making it the 5th UK airport to host the Thomson 787 on a longhaul flight.

[GrahamK]

Nonstop or via MAN?

[TSR2]

Tuesdays from 1st April on the Cancun flights:


That's 1st April 2014 as I understand it.

[VentureGo]

According to Wikipedia; Newcastle Airport Destinations page today. Delta Air Lines appear as operating service to Detroit from 6th December 2013 - Is this correct?! Later, I also noticed American Airlines to JFK from 2/12/2013, and United to Newark from 3/12/2013 and Air Berlin to Berlin from July 2013 - Surely 3 USA routes cannot be correct! These do not cross reference on the Airline or corresponding airport pages.
Link: Newcastle Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_Airport#Airlines_and_destinations)

Passenger Flights

Airlines Destinations
Air Berlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Berlin) Berlin-Tegel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin-Tegel_Airport) (begins 22 July 2013)
Air France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France)operated by CityJet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CityJet) Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris-Charles_de_Gaulle_Airport)
Air Malta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Malta) Seasonal: Malta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta_International_Airport)
BH Air (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BH_Air) Seasonal: Bourgas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgas_Airport), Sofia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofia_Airport), Varna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna_Airport)
American Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines) New York-JFK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_International) (begins 2 December 2013)
British Airways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways) London-Heathrow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Heathrow_Airport)
Brussels Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_Airlines)operated by Flybe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flybe) Brussels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_Airport)
Citywing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citywing) Isle of Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man_Airport)
Delta Air Lines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines) Detroit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_International_Airport) (begins 6 December 2013)
Eastern Airways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Airways) Aberdeen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberdeen_Airport), Birmingham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Airport), Cardiff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_Airport), Stavanger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stavanger_Airport,_Sola)
EasyJet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EasyJet) Alicante (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicante_Airport), Amsterdam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Airport_Schiphol), Barcelona (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcelona_El_Prat_Airport), Belfast-International (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_International_Airport), Bristol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Airport), Faro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faro_Airport), Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Airport) (begins 26 March 2013),[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_Airport#cite_note-chroniclelive.co.uk-5) Málaga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A1laga_Airport), Malta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta_International_Airport)Seasonal: Geneva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_International_Airport), Ibiza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibiza_Airport), Minorca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menorca_Airport), Nice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_C%C3%B4te_d%27Azur_Airport), Palma de Mallorca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palma_de_Mallorca_Airport)
Emirates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_%28airline%29) Dubai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_International_Airport)
Flybe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flybe) Belfast-City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Best_Belfast_City_Airport), Bergen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergen_Airport,_Flesland), Exeter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exeter_International_Airport), Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Airport), London-Gatwick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatwick_Airport), Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris-Charles_de_Gaulle_Airport), Southampton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southampton_Airport)
Seasonal: Limoges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limoges_%E2%80%93_Bellegarde_Airport), Newquay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newquay_Airport)
Jet2.com (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet2.com) Alicante (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicante_Airport), Arrecife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanzarote_Airport), Cork (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cork_Airport), Dalaman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalaman_Airport), Faro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faro_Airport), Heraklion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraklion_International_Airport), Kraków (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_II_International_Airport_Krak%C3%B3w-Balice), Las Palmas de Gran Canaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Canaria_International_Airport), Málaga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A1laga_Airport), Murcia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murcia-San_Javier_Airport), Paphos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paphos_International_Airport), Prague (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Ruzyne_Airport), Tenerife-South (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_South_Airport)
Seasonal: Bodrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milas-Bodrum_Airport), Chambéry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamb%C3%A9ry_Airport), Corfu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corfu_International_Airport), Dubrovnik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubrovnik_Airport), Ibiza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibiza_Airport), Mahon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menorca_Airport), Palma de Mallorca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palma_de_Mallorca_Airport), Pisa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei_Airport), Pula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pula_Airport), Reus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reus_Airport), Rome-Fiumicino (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci-Fiumicino_Airport), Rhodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodes_International_Airport), Venice-Marco Polo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice_Marco_Polo_Airport)
One-off Seasonal Weekend Breaks: Marrekech (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menara_International_Airport) (19 April 2013 only), New York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark_Liberty_Airport) (Winter/Christmas shopping), Reykjavik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reykjavik_Airport) (26 April 2013 only), St Petersburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulkovo_Airport) (3 May 2013 only)
KLM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KLM)operated by KLM Cityhopper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KLM_Cityhopper) Amsterdam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Airport_Schiphol)
Lufthansa Regional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_Regional)operated by Eurowings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurowings) Düsseldorf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BCsseldorf_International_Airport)
Ryanair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanair) Dublin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Airport)Seasonal: Girona (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girona-Costa_Brava_Airport)
Scandinavian Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Airlines) Copenhagen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_Airport) (begins 4 February 2013)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_Airport#cite_note-6)
Syphax Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphax_Airlines) Seasonal: Enfidha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfidha_-_Hammamet_International_Airport) (begins 20 July 2013)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_Airport#cite_note-7)
Thomas Cook Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cook_Airlines) Arrecife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanzarote_Airport), Enfidha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfidha_-_Hammamet_International_Airport), Las Palmas de Gran Canaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Canaria_International_Airport), Paphos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paphos_International_Airport), Sharm el-Sheikh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharm_el-Sheikh_International_Airport), Tenerife-South (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_South_Airport)Seasonal: Alicante (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicante_Airport), Antalya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antalya_Airport), Bodrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milas-Bodrum_Airport), Bourgas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgas_Airport), Corfu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corfu_International_Airport), Dalaman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalaman_Airport), Faro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faro_Airport), Fuerteventura (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuerteventura_Airport), Heraklion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraklion_International_Airport), Ibiza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibiza_Airport), Kefalonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalonia_International_Airport), Kos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kos_Island_International_Airport), Larnaca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larnaca_International_Airport), Malta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta_International_Airport), Mahon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menorca_Airport), Reus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reus_Airport), Rhodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodes_International_Airport), Skiathos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skiathos_Island_National_Airport), Zakynthos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakynthos_International_Airport)
Thomas Cook Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cook_Airlines) operated by Orbest Orizonia Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbest_Orizonia_Airlines) Seasonal: Palma de Mallorca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palma_de_Mallorca_Airport) (Begins 27 May 2013)
Thomson Airways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomson_Airways) Alicante (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicante_Airport), Arrecife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanzarote_Airport), Las Palmas de Gran Canaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Canaria_International_Airport), Málaga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A1laga_Airport), Paphos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paphos_International_Airport), Sharm el-Sheikh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharm_el-Sheikh_International_Airport), Tenerife-South (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_South_Airport)
Seasonal: Antalya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antalya_Airport), Barbados (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grantley_Adams_International_Airport), Bodrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milas-Bodrum_Airport), Bourgas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgas_Airport), Cancún (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canc%C3%BAn_International_Airport), Corfu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corfu_International_Airport), Dalaman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalaman_Airport), Enfidha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfidha_%E2%80%93_Hammamet_International_Airport), Faro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faro_Airport), Fuerteventura (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuerteventura_Airport), Funchal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeira_Airport), Heraklion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraklion_International_Airport), Ibiza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibiza_Airport), Kefalonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalonia_International_Airport), Kos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kos_Airport), Larnaca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larnaca_International_Airport), Mahon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menorca_Airport), Naples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naples_Airport), Orlando-Sanford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Sanford_International_Airport), Palma de Mallorca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palma_de_Mallorca_Airport), Punta Cana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punta_Cana_International_Airport), Reus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reus_Airport), Rhodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodes_International_Airport), Skiathos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skiathos_Airport), Zakynthos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakynthos_International_Airport)
United Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines) New York-Newark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark_Liberty_International_Airport) (begins 3 December 2013

[VentureGo]

Just checked Wikipedia again and the flights to Berlin & USA have been removed - Someone playing around with Wikipedia page perhaps!

[HH6702]

OMG not again.............

It is still top of the wish list and I hope it true but I can't see it happening

[fl dutchman]

Believe it will also be doing Orlando from NCL in 2014.

[Jamesair]

I could see the Air Berlin flights as a possibility.

[Ph1l1pncl]

Do the current Cancun flights which go via Man just refuel or do they also pick up passengers in Manchester? As the timetable is not showing any Man flights on a Tuesday in April, but if the flight just refuels and picks up no passengers then I presume it wouldn't be listed.

[Earlyriser]

It's just a fuel stop.

[N707ZS]

Must be a great start to your holiday, "we are just about to depart to Cancun,...but have to nip into Manchester for fuel", how long is the turn around on that?

[Charlie98]

I thought the 763 could take off from NCL at MTOW? :ugh:

[deltahotel9]

Clearly not. TOM have always gone outbound via MAN to CUN, TCX used to go via Dom Rep with the 330 too, TOM direct to SFB is OK.

[Earlyriser]

It's roughly 30 minutes at MAN.

The flight is ticketed as Cancun Via Manchester so passengers do know before they fly as well as being shown on the check in screens, flight boards and boarding gates on the day of departure.

Towards the end of the season when the loads are light I believe the 763 goes NCL-CUN direct.

[davidjohnson6]

I notice fro CAA provisional stats that traffic on the Amsterdam route increased by several thousand in Dec 2012, much more than expected based on the stats in recent months. I know Easyjet began on the route mid month but it still seems insufficient to explain the increase in passenger numbers. Anyone know more about this ?

[Ph1l1pncl]

Has it been announced that BA are dropping a rotation to Newcastle in May 2013 as it appears that throughout the month it's only 5 flights instead of the usual 6. I only investigated as I was trying to book flights to Vancover and the connecting flights that the website were offering were terrible with long wait times in Heathrow. It then appears to go back to 6 rotations in June.

Will the 787 flights in 2014 also have to fuel stop or does this new aircraft have the abilities to go nonstop from Newcastle?

[BAladdy]

The have cancelled the 18:30 departure ex LHR and 20:15 ex NCL from 04MAY for 1 month. So don't think it would have made a difference to your connecting time at LHR if it did operate.

I take it it is the connecting time for the NCL-LHR-YVR leg that you are talking about.

[fl dutchman]

They do reduce flights from time to time, its currently 5 rotaions going back to 6 in Feb.They also reduced it early Dec and a couple of periods last year.

The reduced flights are not always the same one for each period and yes it can create some very poor connection times.

Monday and Tuesday this week saw only 4 rorations. (nothing to do with the weather as it was pre planned)

LGW seems to be very irregular at the moment with just 2 rotations some weekdays, even down to one on others with no early morning departure at all. Not surprising that the figures for Dec are so low.

LGW has all the signs of a route that is closing???

Noticed that Easyjet not doing much at NCL on some days. one day earlier this week they only had 4 flights in total outbound to BRS and BFS. I realise things are quieter this time of year but dont recall it being that quiet.

[Jamesair]

Things should get better with EZY just after the start of February when, just to give a couple of examples. Alicante increases from 4 to 5 weekly and Amsterdam from 3 to 5 weekly. January is a particularly quiet time as you rightly point out.

[VentureGo]

New Movements for Newcastle 2013 - posted on Plane Mad.com

February 2013

Mon 4th
http://www.plane-mad.com/pictures/logos/sas-scandinavian-airlines.gif
New Service
- New service to Copenhagen commences. Operates Mon./Tues./Wed./Thurs./Fri.


Sun 24th
http://www.plane-mad.com/pictures/logos/enter-air.gif
One-off Charter
- one off 4 day flight


March 2013

Tue 26th
http://www.plane-mad.com/pictures/logos/easyjet.gif
New Service
- New service to Jersey commences. Operates Tues./Sat.


May 2013

Sun 5th
http://www.plane-mad.com/pictures/logos/onur-air.gif
New Service
Arr: 07:20, Dep: 09:20 - Serivce to dalaman starts. Sunday only


Mon 27th
http://www.plane-mad.com/pictures/logos/iberworld.gif
New Service
Arr: 13:45, Dep: 14:45 - To PMI Every monday


June 2013

Thu 20th
AirExplore
New Service
Arr: 16:45, Dep: 17:45 - Serice to Lanzarote starts every thursday


July 2013

Tue 2nd
http://www.plane-mad.com/pictures/logos/jet2.gif
New Service
- New weekly service to Pula commences. Operates Tues. only.


Sat 20th
Syphax
New Service
- New weekly service to Enfidha commences. Operates Sat. only.


Sun 28th
Small Planet Airlines
New Service
Arr: 09:50, Dep: 10:50 - To PMI , operates every sunday


September 2013

Mon 16th
http://www.plane-mad.com/pictures/logos/iberworld.gif
Service Ends
- Service to PMI ends


Sun 29th
Small Planet Airlines
Service Ends
- Service to PMI ends


Mon 30th
Small Planet Airlines
One-off Charter
- One off to Sicily


October 2013

Thu 24th
AirExplore
Service Ends
- Serice to Lanzarote ends


Sat 26th
Syphax
Service Ends
- Service to enfidha ends


Sun 27th
http://www.plane-mad.com/pictures/logos/onur-air.gif
Service Ends
- service to dalaman ends

[SWBKCB]

Customary to give a credit when lifting stuff straight off another site?

[Northbound A1]

Looks a bit busier than down the road :hmm:

[CabinCrewe]

Iberworld no longer exists

[CentreFix25]

The company does it just renamed and rebranded to Orbest Orizonia Airlines.

[G-TYNE]

Looking at various threads on here. Would it be correct to say the basing for this summer will be:

TOM 3x 738
TCX 2x 752 1x 320
LS 4x 733 2x 752
EZY 4x 319

If I've read correctly this would represent a massive blow to the seats on TOM and TCX flights. If I'm incorrect would anyone care to supply the correct info?

[SWBKCB]

4 EZY 319's? Not heard that one, thought it stayed as 2 319's and a 320.

[CentreFix25]

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's -44 seats per plane per flight for Thomson.

Thomas Cook minus an A320 for the entire Summer season.

No Air Transat.

Easy still at 3 as far as I know.

The odd additional flight from none based aircraft, but nowhere near covering the loss. That will be a Summer on Summer decrease in pax by the looks of it.

[SWBKCB]

Isn't there an extra a/c from Jet2?

Looks like a reduction in terms of a/c numbers based, but how does that equate to flights flown?

For example, the leased TCX 320 wasn't busy all week, so the reduction might not be that great if the three based a/c are operated fully plus additional third party and 'W' flights.

[CentreFix25]

I've not seen anything regarding a Jet2 increase, but I've not been looking. That being said there's always Jet2 aircraft standing around somewhere on the airfield doing nothing.

I'm pretty sure the other 3 TCX aircraft were fully utilised last year, so whatever the 4th one did is a loss. Are any of the based aircraft due to operate 'W' flights away from NCL?

I recon on 3-4 additional flights by non-based aircraft, although 2 of them don't start until the end of July.

nb. I don't know if this was the same last year but there seems to be 3 Thomson Ws away from Newcastle during the week (Naples, Reus & Alicante).

We won't know until the Summer season results are published, but it's a reduction from where I'm sitting at the minute.

[fl dutchman]

From what I heard last summer, 3 of the TCX aircraft were quite well utilized but there were sometimes periods of inactivity perhaps longer than would be expected. The 4th aircraft seemed to be used much less than the others also operating several W rotations to other airports.

So its no surprise that there are 3 aircraft this summer (with greater utilization??). It would be interesting to know how many seats are available on TCX flights this summer and add them to the other airlines now used by TCX at NCL this summer and compare them with the number available last summer on the 4 aircraft flying for TCX then. Maybe it will not be a huge reduction. Does anyone have this data?

Obviously TOM will have less seats with the 738s versus the 752.

FlyBe
Being reported on another thread that they are cutting 300 jobs overall, reviewing routes etc. Someone is speculating that NCL and MAN routes would be worst hit.

They do unfortunatley seem to have run down the NCL- LGW route with erratic frequencys. Today again (nothing to do with weather) no early flight just 2 afternoon rotations. Some days just one flight. The dwindling passenger numbers are understandable in the circumstances. Even SOU has had cuts on some days. Of course the Jersey route has competition now from Easyjet. So It will be interesting to see what happens and of course a worrying time for the staff.

[OltonPete]

Jet for the summer per this: -

brussels airlines S13 European Operation Changes as of 23JAN13 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/23/sn-europe-s13update3/)

One GDS site showing the RJ85, however with only one apparently left in service it is highly unlikely.

So a reasonable capacity increase if it is the RJ100.

Pete

[VentureGo]

It's appeared again today on Wikipedia Newcastle Airport : American Airlines service to New York JFK commencing November 12th 2013
: (extract):Newcastle Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_Airport#Airlines_and_destinations)
Air France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France) operated by CityJet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CityJet) Paris-Charles de Gaulle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris-Charles_de_Gaulle_Airport)
American Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines) New York JFK (Commences November 12 2013) (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=New_York_JFK_%28Commences_November_12_2013%2 9&action=edit&redlink=1)
BH Air (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BH_Air) Seasonal: Bourgas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgas_Airport), Sofia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofia_Airport), Varna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna_Airport)
British Airways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways) London-Heathrow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Heathrow_Airport)
Brussels Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_Airlines) operated by Flybe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flybe) Brussels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_Airport)

Not available on AA Booking Tool as direct, but showing codeshare BA flight at extortionate rate (£2,147) - United are showing NCL to EWR via BRU codeshare with Brussels Airlines at £515 rtn (Cheaper than United's direct service from BHX & EDI.
Guess someone either has info on AA service talks or just putting mis-information on Wikipedia.

[GAXLN]

No airline in their right mind would start a transatlantic service in November. I think we can safely assume someone with time on their hands is trying to have some fun. It is about time they grew up.

[bigchrisfgb]

It's fake, the same person who did the last edit (wikipedia) to that also put on that the Emirates route is ending in the summer time.

The first person to do those edits seems to edit plenty of airport wiki pages, almost daily, also they edit a lot of football related pages.

I doubt anyone would have access to that sort of information unless they were high up in command with NCL management or the airlines themselves.

A few days ago I took to twitter to contact NCL and they denied any knowledge of the new routes.

[G-TYNE]

What is that airport doing to prevent these losses? Surely the 'economic climate' can't be blamed, as LBA (A similarly sized airport) is seeing new bases from TOM, MON and expansion from LS.

[BAladdy]

BE have today announced a two year plan focussed on getting the company back to profitability

Flybe | Corporate | Media | News archive (http://www.flybe.com/corporate/media/news/1301/23.htm)

The announcement states that BE could slash 10% of it's work force as part of the plan. The article states that the majority of the jobs that are expected to go are at Exeter, Manchester and Newcastle.

I am guessing that the possible NCL redundancies are due to the DH4 currently operated by BE for SN that operates ex NCL being transfered to EDI?.

[ash666]

I hope NCL read this.
From BBC
"Edinburgh Airport has announced a fund intended to attract operators willing to serve new destinations.

Finance worth £15m annually has been pledged for airlines considering flights from Edinburgh.

The funding will only be handed over once a commitment has been made to a new service.

The airport is hoping to expand its route network to include key destinations in Europe, North America and the Middle East."

[CabinCrewe]

Im sure it just means they'll be willing to lose 15M on reducing handling /airport charges etc and cutting their margins even more... Will be interesting to see if it pays off... Cant really see it having a significant impact on NCL.

[GrahamK]

Just been working out the average load for Decemeber based on the mix of 77L and the various different capacities of 77W that were used, and it appears that it was a lowly 56.6%. Is Newcastle still losing people to Glasgow and Manchester? Given the number of 3 class a/c that appeared, would it be wise for EK to start selling F?

[Jamesair]

December pax figure highlights were:

Brussels.........3,604...+ 8%
Amsterdam....27,752..+ 24% (Easyjet coming onto the route)
Dubai...........14,910..+ 9%
Prague.......... 2418...+ 5%

Aberdeen..... .1923...+ 36%
Belfast Int.....16,078.+ 6%
Exeter............2888..+74%
Isle of Man......305....+65%

Paris CDG.......12,194..- 26% (Easyjet leaving the route)
Dusseldorf......2950.....- 21% (reduction in frequency)
Stavanger......1760..... - 10%
Dublin...........9883...... - 5% (reduction in frequency)

Gatwick........5544...- 17%
Belfast City...2491... - 14%
Birmingham... 564.... - 26%

[G-TYNE]

Reading the Airport Fees document on the website today, came across this, is this new, or has the passenger service charge always been charged by the airport?

Charge applying from 1st January 2013:
A Passenger Service Charge of £13.39 per DEPARTING passenger on aircraft to arrival points outside the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.
A Passenger Service Charge of £8.09 per DEPARTING passenger on aircraft to arrival points within the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

http://www.newcastleairport.com/Media/business/fees-and-charges-2013.pdf

[10 DME ARC]

TYNE
Always been like that, charges have changed over the years, this is how airports make money! However most airlines these days 'negotiate' these charges!! That means the likes of Ryanair reverse the charges and charge the airport per pax!!!:rolleyes:

[Mike Tee]

Just had an e-mail from Flybe asking me to ring a "premium rate" number to hear that our flights to Bergen in August have been cancelled due to the service being withdrawn. Eight of us had confirmed reservations and we where to attend a family wedding in Voss. There is of course the option of going KLM via Amsterdam at about twice the price but that would hurt !!. Arrrgh.

[Charlie Roy]

From Newcastle to Bergen, your options are:
KLM via Amsterdam
SAS via Copenhagen
BA via Heathrow

Alternatively fly direct:
Newcastle to Stavanger with Wideroe
Edinburgh to Bergen with Norwegian
Manchester to Bergen with SAS

[CabinCrewe]

"would it be wise for EK to start selling F?"
No. Giving away is more likely than selling.

[Mike Tee]

Many thanks for the info Charlie Roy, never realised there where so many alternatives. Looks like we will be going for the Teesside Bergen via Amsterdam.

[VentureGo]

Flybe to Bergen Discontinued?

Bergen Withdrawn
Just had an e-mail from Flybe asking me to ring a "premium rate" number to hear that our flights to Bergen in August have been cancelled due to the service being withdrawn. Eight of us had confirmed reservations and we where to attend a family wedding in Voss. There is of course the option of going KLM via Amsterdam at about twice the price but that would hurt !!. Arrrgh.


It seems Flybe are pulling their Newcastle Bergen service from end of March. Booking tool doesn't allow bookings after March. Mike Tee reports he has been advised his flights later in the year have been cancelled, and he should make alternative arrangements. Wonder if another operator will take on this route.
Looking at 95/96 Winter schedule from Newcastle Airport, Braathens operated a Daily (except Sat) Boeing 737 service to Bergen via Stavanger (Flight no. BU574) as well as a seperate Oslo (BU568) service. These operated Mon-Friday and Sunday. (BU578 BGO via SVG and BU564 Oslo) Braathens is now SAS Norway.

[Jamesair]

Wideroes also operated it briefly, Eastern then Flybe. I think Jet 2 had a go at it for a while, I'm sure someone can confirm that.

[CentreFix25]

BU564 Oslo

I remember flying on this route to the old Fornebu airport. I was one of 5 passengers on the 737-500, the route was canned shortly after.

I wonder if a 2 or 3 times weekly EMB-145 would fit the bill ;-)

[airhumberside]

Yes, Jet 2 did do NCL-BGO for a while

[SWBKCB]

Quote:
BU564 Oslo
I remember flying on this route to the old Fornebu airport. I was one of 5 passengers on the 737-500, the route was canned shortly after.

I wonder if a 2 or 3 times weekly EMB-145 would fit the bill ;-)

And BACON tried that for a while!

[GAXLN]

Sadly the route started just a couple of months before 9/11 and was doing well. Cut in a knee jerk reaction when it seemed the world was going to end.

[Mike Tee]

Just to add interest the cheapest alternative we can find is good old British Airways via Heathrow. Problem is that the second leg does not get to Bergen until 19.45 which means we wouldn't get to Voss until about 10.00pm which is too late.

[HH6702]

Hi

For some reason the airport likes to have the above routes and tries hard to get airlines to give them ago!

I thought if any airline would have been able to do it would have been Flybe because of there size of aircraft.

It just shows that the loads aren't there anymore.

I hope from now on the airport STOPS trying to get someone onto Bergen now and lets try some different markets and routes that haven't been tried yet!!

And before anyone starts I don't mean new York!!

Thinking more on the lines of
Frankfurt
Madrid
Bilbao
Lyon
Stockholm

What do you guys think??

[mad_rich]

Reading the Airport Fees document on the website today, came across this, is this new, or has the passenger service charge always been charged by the airport?

As 10 DME ARC says, the amount the airlines pay doesn't necessarily have any relation to the published price.

As far as I've noticed, historically at least, my tickets to/ from NCL have included a PSC for arriving pax, but not departing. This has been the opposite of most UK airports.

An useful benefit of this has been when booking reward flights on KLM, and paying the taxes, choosing to depart from MME and return to NCL works out a lot cheaper than t'other way around.

[mad_rich]

@HH6702

It still astonishes me that NCL has not yet got a FRA connection, yet it manages DUS. It would give *A a genuine presence at the airport (which SN/BRU and SK/CPH can't really claim to offer).

MAD and the rest, I can't see a case for at the moment.

[heslop2006]

@HH6702

A flight to Madrid direct from Newcastle would certainly have worked a charm for me on Sunday, however I have to go via LHR instead and given the fact that I'm close to getting the job i'm going to the training/chance week for next week, i'm going to be forking out a bit for flights to and from Madrid ...

[GrahamK]

With regards to my earlier DXB calculation, scrub that. Forgot there was no flight Xmas day.

[Skipness One Echo]

It still astonishes me that NCL has not yet got a FRA connection
GLA lacks one too, perhaps EDI is pulling in from both?

[ash666]

Does anyone know where the TOM flight that goes to Innsbruck on Saturday comes in from?

[nclops]

Normally comes in from GVA.

[ash666]

Thanks very much :)

[EGNT-FLYER]

Heard that the Brussels route is to be axed from the end of March!

[OltonPete]

Never a good sign when it can't be booked!

Even when there is a change of frequency/times it remains bookable but this route appears to have gone from the end of the winter schedule.

Perhaps one for BMI Regional?

I was worried when it changed to the RJ85, as they only fly one or two and they are not long for the fleet.

Pete

[CentreFix25]

Is this continuing backwards slide a sign of the times or are there other reasons?

[Jamesair]

It does seem strange because the pax figures have been on a rising trend over 2011/12 with a peak of 4,646 in September. I have no idea of yields on the route but those figures seem to be pretty encouraging to me. This is one of NCL's oldest operating routes.

[Sam Chipperfield]

It is not being axed, It is being handed back to SN Brussels Airlines, I presume they have not sorted the Summer Timetable out yet !!!

[OltonPete]

Sam Chipperfield

The SN flights had been loaded - I noted them only the other week and they had the RJ85 operating.

They have seem been removed from GDS and the Brussels Airlines site.

You are right of course this does not mean they have finished and it could be just an airline or frequency change.

However SN have been reducing their summer UK offerings from most airports (except EDI) if airlineroute.net is correct with Manchester staying at three a day, BHX now is showing 1 x RJ100, 4 x DH8D (2 x BE and 2 x TYR) and I also believe a LHR rotation is been removed and GDS seems to confirm this with the 20.10 ex LHR not showing.

It might be a case of holding tight for a week or so but things UK wide seem to be changing.

Pete

[MerchantVenturer]

I thought NCL-BRU was operated by Flybe in SN livery for Brussels Airlines as at Bristol. Wasn't NCL switched to this operation from the previous bmi regional (for SN) airline at the beginning of the current winter as at BRS?

If NCL is being axed so presumably might Bristol though at the moment the booking engine is available for BRS-BRU flights this summer utilising Flybe aircraft.

[OltonPete]

Hi MV

NCL is currently operated by a BE/SN DH8D but around a month ago it changed in GDS to 3 x a day (Mon-Fri, reduced weekend service) RJ85 of Brussels Airlines for summer 2013.

This was around the same time EDI - BRU changed from one daily SN 319 to 2 x daily SN/BE Q400 (Mon-Fri), which night-stops EDI.

Bristol is still showing 3 x daily (in the week) DH8D of SN/BE with the United code-share on the first out.

Things seem to be changing all the time as BHX went from 4 x RJ100, 1 x DH8D to 3 x RJ100, 2 x DH8D to 2 x RJ100 to 3 x DH8D and is now showing 1 x RJ100 and 4 x DH8D. This all in the last four or five weeks so there must be some hope for the NCL service.

[Sam Chipperfield]

Newcastle Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_Airport)


That Page says the Brussels Flights are staying, I know they talk a lot of crap but why would they drop a popular Route?

[CentreFix25]

Its not...

It is not being axed

You said so!

[CabinCrewe]

I dont think "popular" and profitable are the same things...

[Captain_Adams]

Olton Pete.

NCL-BRU is operated 3x daily using Flybe DH8D in SN Brussels Airlines colours, not RJ85s.

[mikehhh]

I emailed brusselsairlines, as this is a route I use regularly, and got the slightly unclear reply below:

From: callcenter.en [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 11 February 2013 10:31
Subject: RE: General contact

Thank you for your e-mail

We regret to inform you that we have interrupt BRUNCL route as of start of Summer 2013 season (March 31st13). Sorry for the inconveniences.

For further information don't hesitate to contact us back.

Kind regards
Brussels Airlines

[OltonPete]

Captain_Adams

I was referring to what was showing in GDS for summer 13 but my post wasn't clear enough and I have changed it :)

Originally summer 13 was shown as 3 x DH8D then it changed to 3 x SN RJ85 and then it disappeared - apologies for the confusion.

Pete

[HH6702]

Can't believe we have lost this route altogether !!
3x daily to gone with 3000 pax using this route per month something just isn't adding up??

Is this just because lack of aircraft for the route with Flybe moving the aircraft to edi?

[CaptainDoony]

3000 per month? That's horrendous - no wonder its been dropped :bored:

[magicninja]

Pax number above is wrong. its up to 4000 per month now

averaging out at 112 pax per day (removing saturday they dont operate)

[Jamesair]

The actual pax figures are: Sept 4,646, Oct 4568, Nov 4397, Dec 3604, (note that December includes the Christmas holiday period which accounts for the much lower take up).

[fl dutchman]

So that equates to about 27 ish per flight. More suited to the BMIR aircraft that previously operated on this route or 2 flights a day on the Q400.

I think the numbers are similar to those of BRS that retains the Flybe 3x daily flight. Of course numbers are not everything.

The Flybe aircraft that currently operates this route appears to be going up to EDI to do the 2 scheduled rotations per day.

Hope this is not a sign of things to come!!

The steady decline continues.

Any good news?

[HH6702]

They did state NCL were in there plans for summer 2013 so maybe they will be back to this route??

With figures like that they must be making money and how many out of those numbers connect onto onward flights with them

[CabinCrewe]

...just like ABZ, GLA and EDI were in their plans....:rolleyes:

[BKS Air Transport]

It's fair to say that bmir jumped at Manchester-Antwerp when it was abandoned by a previous carrier. I'd have thought that NCL-BRU would have the same if not more potential for them.

[Ph1l1pncl]

Brussels Airlines tweeted me this morning confirming that they have cancelled they Newcastle route from the end of the winter season. The airport also said that they are now looking for alternatives carriers for the route. So does it appear that we have lost the route for the benefit of the Edinburgh route who gained the DH8 to operate its routes?

[magicninja]

regardless of the dash 8 it was being upgraded for the summer to a Bae146 (i think thats what its called)

[fl dutchman]

Didnt realise that BMIR were flying twice daily from LBA to BRU, and also three times daily from EDI to BRU in addition to the forthcoming twice daily EDI Brussels/Flybe service. Despite the competition they must think they can make more money on this route than NCL hence the move of the Q400 to EDI.

Perhaps there is a chance BMIR could take on this route from NCL(no competition plenty passengers for their aircraft size.)

If not its a loss of another 40/50,000 ish passengers per year.

[Jamesair]

The airport can ill afford to lose important routes like Brussels, and up to 50,000 pax a year. I hope they are working to find another operator for the route or even trying to persuade LH to introduce Frankfurt as the main link for Star Alliance transfers.

[VentureGo]

http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 12th Feb 2013, 20:00 #2485 (http://www.pprune.org/7691380-post2485.html) (permalink (http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/383785-durham-tees-valley-airport-5-a-125.html#post7691380)) highwideandugly (http://www.pprune.org/members/230376-highwideandugly)

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: on the border line
Posts: 206


Brussels from DTV ?
Tried once before..but seeing as newcastle has lost the service..any mileage in contacting Eastern again >? maybe a code share with SN using the EMB aircraft for a twice a day service? Peel need to contact and up the ante??? if there are circa 5K passengers a month surely profits are there to be made...If newcastle are sleeping now is the time to strike????
Above from DTV Airport thread

Newcastle "Sleeping"? - Can't see DTV being any more successful on this route. Maybe it will be just a matter of time before Brussels is re-instated - although Frankfurt with Lufthansa would give better Star Alliance connections.

[skyman771]

Newcastle "Sleeping"? - Can't see DTV being any more successful on this route. Maybe it will be just a matter of time before Brussels is re-instated - although Frankfurt with Lufthansa would give better Star Alliance connections.
From an economic & not "sentimental" prospective which seems to come to the front all too often, then the issue of the NCL-BRU service actually brings home the point that there are now too many airports chasing too few pax in the North East. The NE economy isn't going to improve any time soon & the sooner a strategy is sorted to promote & support one airport from the region, then the better !
In the greater scheme then unfortunately for those down at DTV, as regards passenger services then they are the weak link, and their chance of achieving anything that adds to the aggregate resource of the "whole" North east region appears even less than remote.
As to whether DTV can promote & survive on non pax activities is not for this forum, though there remain clear opportunities for freight, maintenance, & other aviation related opportunities that NCL is never going to be able to compete.
As to a FRA service then unfortunately there is a great deal of logic that if a long serving NCL - BRU service, how many years 20+?? has gone into demise, then why should any carrier wish to invest in NCL - FRA which with zero history suggests it's a gamble.
In addition for those that forget there have been German Loco's at NCL in the past offering various destinations albeit not FRA, so what logic is that a LH full fare NCL-FRA would work ?
In reality the no. of available pax. to NCL is unlikely to exceed those 5M plus highs of the mid 2000's, the money isn't there, and those that came from outside the region now have a greater choice than ever on their own doorsteps.
As such you now have the situation that one carriers gain is another's loss. Put in LH with global connections from FRA & you simply put more pressure ion the remaining legacy carriers, a "catch 22" situation.
I will finish this on a poignant note, in clearing out some old files I have come across a BA pocket NCL - LHR timetable for Mar - Oct 1988 which offered SEVEN flights from NCL on weekdays ( FOUR on weekends), roll forward 25 years & there are barely half this no. (and also reduced aircraft capacity) & it's not all down to slots ! Hmmmmm:(

[Jamesair]

Eastern seem to be operating 3 flights to Aberdeen tonight at T3586 1700, T3588 1715, and T34038 1730. Anyone know why this is.

Plus 3 inward flights from the Ukraine tomorrow morning for the soccer match.

[BAladdy]

T3586 and T3588 are flight numbers for T3's MME to ABZ service.

MME's website showing that the inbound flights have been diverted to NCL and the departures back to ABZ are now operating from NCL.

Can only guess the MME is closed to weather.

[BAladdy]

BE will reduce the number of aircraft based at NCL to just 1 for the S13 season.
This is down from the 3 DH4 (2 x BE & 1 x SN)aircraft that have been based at NCL for the winter.

The single based aircraft will mostly be used to operate BE's LGW services.

BE's flight to SOU will be operated 3 x daily by a SOU based DH4 from the start of S13

[fl dutchman]

Skyman771

Agree with most of your post but the LHR is currently 6 on weekdays 5/6 on Sats and 5 on Suns. From Summer I think Sats goes down to 4. However there are some part months when 1 rotation is dropped as has been the case for some time now. So its not quite reduced by half

I can remember the 7 weekday frequency in the past. Was it 737-200s/757s then?

On a seperate point having spoken to several people recently who live in the Newcastle/Durham area, it seems that according to them its much cheaper to fly from other airports to destinations available from NCL even when taking into account travel to those airports and parking.

The examples quoted included Paris, much cheaper from LBA, Limoges much cheaper from MAN and TFS much cheaper again from LBA.

All the people seemed to think it was due to higher fees at NCL?

I realise of course the flights from NCL are longer but that shoud not account for example more than double the fare from NCL to Limoges when compares to the same journey from MAN.
I have even spoken to people who fly to Dubai travelling to MAN rather than there closest airport NCL.

Not Good!

[gianthaystacks]

It shows how tough it is to retain routes during the current climate....
Durham Tees are even clearing the snow using volunteers from what you read - I don't think this fills operators (or insurers) with confidence.
How does that work?

I don't know - but if Newcastle can't retain I think it's more about operators preference.
They've stayed open and available constantly in recent weeks.. I've flown in a few times whilst DTV has closed after a few flakes. .... why would Flybe or any BRU operator take them seriously? What's the score with snow clearance done by volunteers etc. What if there's an injury or damage? Where do they stand.. Frighten the life out of most commercial organisations?
GH

[fl dutchman]

More bad news.
Sunday, Tues and Wed dropped. Now only opperates Sats for summer 2013.
Easyjet flights must be having an effect.

[BAladdy]

The single based aircraft will mostly be used to operate BE's LGW services.

Does anyone know what the loads are like on the NCL-LGW service. I have used it a couple of times this year and you are lucky if it's over half full.

[Cirrussy]

Anybody know what the three blue and yellow 737s are parked up for? Can't quite work out the airline's name...

Thanks

[CScott56]

Ukraine International Airlines 738's with fans for the Newcastle match.

Chris

[nclops]

Ukraine International. Brought football supporters from Kharkiv for tonight's game with Newcastle.

[Heathrow Harry]

500 supporters - all paid for by the (sorry THEIR) Club's owner...............

[Cirrussy]

Thank you, everyone!

[Jamesair]

With Orbest (Iberworld) closing down, Thomas Cook will be looking for a new operator for one its Palma rotations.

[Jamesair]

AMSTERDAM.......24.201 (+ 17%) plus EZY
DUBAI............... 15,602 (+9%) second consecutive 9% increase
MALTA................ 2501 (+ 8%)
PRAGUE............... 434 (+ 8%)
KRAKOW.............. 382 (+ 44%)
FARO.................. 2932 (+5%)
Increases were also seen on Alicante and Malaga.

PARIS..................9975 (- 25%) minus EZY
CORK...................1101 (-18%)
DUBLIN.................9137 (-10%)
BARCELONA...........3685 ( -15%)
STAVANGER..........1463 (-13%)
DUSSELDORF.........2404 (-3%)

ABERDEEN.............2227 (+24%) more frequencies, larger aircraft
EXETER.................1809 (+34%)
SOUTHAMPTON.......5462 (+3%)

HEATHROW...........33,462 (-13%) a lot of cancelled flights
GATWICK................5158 (-14%)
BIRMINGHAM............ 583 (-44%)
ISLE OF MAN............ 98 (43%)

[HH6702]

Thanks for the update

[Jamesair]

Jet 2 will be doing the New York special trips again next Winter on 21st Nov and 5th December.

[SWBKCB]

Somebody reading Pprune?


Airline to ground Newcastle to Brussels flight link - Today's News - News - JournalLive (http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news//tm_headline=airline-to-ground-newcastle-to-brussels-flight-link%26method=full%26objectid=32850094%26siteid=61634-name_page.html)

[Richard Taylor]

Proof that airlines PR is full of spin & bull**** half the time.

And airports PR full of bull**** & spin half the time.

Or is it the other way around? :hmm:

[HH6702]

What's the chances of eastern taking the route over with there 135/145's??

[CentreFix25]

"This announcement should be placed in the context of Newcastle International Airport announcing new routes into Eastern Europe and Scandinavia over the past 12 months, all of which will ease access to new markets for North East businesses,” he said.

Did I miss something or is he talking rubbish?

[The SSK]

I may be unduly pessimistic but the loss of the Brussels connection (used it several times myself, including once a Metro!) is something I have been predicting ever since the arrival of Emirates and their daily widebody. Or more precisely, the potential loss of all NCL’s connectivity into the networks.

Emirates are carrying – what? – 200 a day in each direction (I’m looking at the December figures. How many of these do you think are NCL/DXB O&D? At a guess I would say fifteen, max 30 a day. Which means that all the rest are being diverted from BA/LHR. AF/PAR. KL/AMS or SN/BRU. These feeder services are at very best marginally profitable, right now are probably quite heavily loss-making. Those transfer pax onto the longhauls (in the case of SN, Africa) are the lifeblood of the NCL route.

Consider this: with the EU emissions trading scheme extended to air transport, every airline has a bunch of credits, insufficient to their needs, which need to be allocated across their networks. Along with all their other worries (sky-high fuel prices, weak markets) thay are going to be asking themselves – are those scarce credits worth using on an already shaky regional link, or could they be better used elsewhere?

I spent a large chunk of my teenage years at Woolsington and I have always closely followed its route development. I was delighted when the foreign flag carriers began to include NCL in their networks – until EK. Theirs is a highly distortive business model and I fear the worst.

[Sam Chipperfield]

Wouldn't mind seeing Jet2 take on the Brussels Route, Im sure they would get a full load !!!

[Wellington Bomber]

not a chance sam

[skyman771]

The_SSK
I am in total agreement with your observation as to market conditions, indeed as I stated in an earlier post in respect of pax no.'s then you now have the situation that one carriers gain is another's loss.
However I can't see as to where else you are going wrt EK Theirs is a highly distortive business model and I fear the worst. .
As one who took their first flight from NCL back in 1962, it's only when one puts on the "rose tinted glasses" that there were ever "good old days" at NCL, routes have come & gone, as a result of market forces, subsidies or whatever. Case of one door opening & another closing, and so it continues with EK. We now have the situation of "Mega Hubs", and the more of these that NCL are able to access of then the better for the travelling pax.
The downside is & always will be that shorthaul point to point pax will suffer, in quality / availablility of service, offering a potential market for Loco's. The real problem is that at NCL & possibly the NE England as a whole, then there simply isn't sufficient pax demand in this market to fill gaps / expand further. Hence NCL-BRU may become another loser...:(

[Heathrow Harry]

count yourselves lucky you still have flights to LHR .... for now

[The SSK]

We now have the situation of "Mega Hubs", and the more of these that NCL are able to access of then the better for the travelling pax.

Precisely. And if NCL were to lose BRU, AMS, PAR and LHR because EK had hoovered up every last African, Asian and Australasian passenger, then the travelling public would be ill-served.

[magicninja]

Video of the a340 kuwait airline that was in today

Kuwait Airways a340 - Newcastle airport - 22/02/13 - YouTube

[CentreFix25]

Their not likely to lose them all as EK won't be able to offer a service to the traveller going West, but you're point is valid to that extent.

[Hangar6]

Mmm maybe you are right but I see more ad more Ek and Ey pax going WEst via Dublin clearing customs immigration in Dublin and onward with EI Dl Ua US etc so eg: Dxb man dub ord Ek and EI , now NCL not linked yet but plans are there for EIR NCL DUblin so who knows ! A lot of non Eu passengers like clearing border controls in Dublin , we have softened those Us border folks over the years ;)

[VentureGo]

Is Newcastle just too expensive? - The number of people I have heard of recently booking flights for Family Holidays from Edinburgh or Manchester to save in the region of £600 must be an indication that Newcastle Airport are charging airlines too much when compared to neighbouring airports. Even comparisons with LCC show much better terms being offered from Edinburgh (as an example) If the result of this is losing routes, not only from easyJet, but now from key business routes, should the management team now be asked some questions about their performance and relationship with key airline customers. They will no doubt argue that a strict structured charging model brings in greater profit, compared to waiving charges to LCCs such as Ryanair etc..for greater retail sales; but a percentage of Zero is Zero! - Edinburgh and others have recently battled with Ryanair and easyJet; but with skilled negotiations and strong management, they seem to have succeeded in retaining and adding routes to their network. Can Newcastle Airport learn some lessons? Dave Laws seems a popular manager, but maybe such an important asset to our region requires much more. An experienced team, led by an MD who can raise the professional profile and be an "Ambassador" in maximising our airport's potential.

[LAX_LHR]

Mmm maybe you are right but I see more ad more Ek and Ey pax going WEst via Dublin clearing customs immigration in Dublin


Dublin so attractive indeed, that EK have just filed to serve DXB-MXP-JFK....

[SWBKCB]

must be an indication that Newcastle Airport are charging airlines too much when compared to neighbouring airports

What are you basing this assumption on? Just because the flight is more expensive, doesn't mean the airport are charging more.

[fa2fi]

Yes and you'll find NCL is way cheaper than EDI depending on the time of year for example the school holidays. It's supply and demand. Airlines wouldn't be asking for rates that they're not confident that they'll achieve.

[Charlie98]

Why was the Kuwait A340 at ncl today :confused:

[ash666]

I was wondering that.