NEWCASTLE - 8

[neil_2008]

Any news on anyone seeking to pick up the STN route, am starting to miss it now as a connecting flight. Seems very few interesting alternative weekend destinations from airports <3hrs from NCL.

[KNIEVEL77]

Johnnychips,

The plot of land they set aside for the NIA 75th Anniversary viewing point wouldn't be bad.

The MAN Airpark was virtually full when I visited and that was a week day with no school holidays, the amount of serious spotters was incredible, the cafe was great and the Aviation Shop was full of goodies, the view was spot on, in fact I was suprised at how close the viewing areas actually were to the Taxiway in this day and age of heightened security.

The parking charges were quite steep at £3.00 per hour but as you say it most probably goes on the up keep.

Any sort of viewing point at NCL would be a start though!

[Cram1075]

There are plans underway to recreate the original airport building on the land which was formerly occupied by Wings Social Club, just off the roundabout next to Samson Aviaton Terminal. Im not sure how advanced the plans are but it is deffinately happening. The site is said to have a museum type visitor centre and viewing area in what would have been the garden of Wings, which would be perfect for 07 dpartures and arrivals.

Be patient and remember Newcastle is very much a developing REGIONAL airport.

[compton3bravo]

Am I missing something here, I thought Newcastle Airport had been around for rather a long time surely not a developing regional airport - it was called Woolsington at one time.

[BALLSOUT]

There are plans underway to recreate the original airport building on the land which was formerly occupied by Wings Social Club, just off the roundabout next to Samson Aviaton Terminal.
This has to be total nonsense. the "wings social club" was formaly the aero club, and before that it was the origional airport terminal and departure lounge. Before they knocked it down, it still looked the same as it did in the old days. I don't see them knocking down the origional building, just to replace it with a replica. Or then again, that's maybe why they are in so much debt!

[sunshine79]

Jet2 are doing EWR again this year, December 1st and 8th for 3 nights, along with LBA, EMA and GLA.

[Cram1075]

before the building was knocked down the airport was approached by several breweries wanting to reopen it. However the building was in a state of disrepair and had utility issues and was therefor condemmed.
The site IS being discussed as a visitor centre.

[CentreFix25]

With the current economic climate, future ownership and debt repayment due soon - I'll bet nothing happens this side of 4 years or new owners.

[KNIEVEL77]

Well fingers crossed something happens, even a wooden hut would do!!!!

[Earlyriser]

If any ones Interested G-STRX With the Iron Maiden Livery is currently at NCL on behalf of TCX.

[fl dutchman]

So are the promised 4 TCX aircraft now at NCL? and are they opperating a full schedule.
Same applies to the 3 TOM aircraft.

I hear JET 2 has reduced frequency on Prague or was that always intended.

The CAA April stats should be out soon. Any predictions?.

[SWBKCB]

4 TCX are at NCL - two of their own and two leased in. The two leased especially don't seem to be up to a full programme yet. 3 TOM's also in place.

[CentreFix25]

The all white AEU 757 was doing ground engine runs yesterday (think it might have even had a engine replacement) so I assume the Iron Maiden machine was filling in.

Does any one know which flight it operated today so I can look out for it on it's return?

[nclops]

It's operating the TCX6032/6033 to LPA and back today.

[GrahamK]

Any idea why BA used 772 G-YMMG on the BA1334/1335 flight yesterday?

Nevermind, looks like the website I got that info from was wrong...

[CabinCrewe]

If not at NCL , looks if it will certainly be at GLA
BA 777 to GLA - FlyerTalk Forums (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1214710-ba-777-gla.html)

[anthbower1234]

Im on EC-LBC 26/05/11 ill do a full trip report and upload pics as soon as im back from ZTH!

[skhwoody]

Airport Hotel sold a few weeks back, licensing application forms up on the fence now...

re viewing area, there is something being done, but money will decide when.....

the old building had to come down as it was full of asbestos and it was cheaper to demolish and rebuild than to make it safe first then do up....

[fl dutchman]

Do you know who has bought it and what brand will it be?.

[Jamesair]

Although the CAA route analysis figures are not published yet the April pax total figure for the month is 23.2% higher than April 2010. Good news indeed.

[apaul]

However, it is difficult to compare April 2010 and April 2011 given the changing date of Easter and the impact of the ash cloud.

[CabinCrewe]

yes, that all it is, and most others will see similar apparantly significant rises. The true figures unlikely to be higher than a few percent. Better than a reduction though !

[ash666]

Looks like KLM have been the first to cancel flights just because someone spotted some ash from a cigarette. Surprise surprise.

[GrahamK]

ash666, it is actually a surprise as it's usually BA that cancel first :ouch:

Are we expecting the same amount of disruption as last year I wonder?

Oh, and I notice Emirates had their busiest ever month at Newcastle last month, 14701 people using the service, for an average load of just over 88%.
Not bad for an airport with a very limited catchment area :ok:

[ash666]

GrahamK
Nothing like a bit of pre-emptive panicking!
Good on Emirates, though. Don't use them myself but good to see them making a success of it.

[GrahamK]

Looks like Newcastle has taken a couple of Norwegian diversions from EDI, from Copenhagen and Stockholm.

[ash666]

not NCL i know but an interesting read (or read and weep and hang your heads in shame KLM etc):
From Ryanair website -

UPDATED: 11:00hrs (Tues 24 May) NEXT UPDATE: 13:00hrs (24 May)

Ryanair has been advised by the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) that we may not operate flights to/from Glasgow Prestwick, Edinburgh or Aberdeen until 13:00hrs Tuesday 24th May 2011.

Ryanair strongly objects to this decision and believe that there is no basis for these flight cancellations and is meeting with the IAA this morning to have this restriction on Ryanair flights removed as a matter of urgency.

Ryanair confirms that it operated a one hour verification flight up to 41,000 feet in Scottish airspace this morning (24th May). The aircraft took off from Glasgow Prestwick, flew to Inverness, on to Aberdeen and down to Edinburgh - all of which according to CAA charts were in the “red zone” of “high ash concentration”.

There was no visible volcanic ash cloud or any other presence of volcanic ash and the post flight inspection revealed no evidence of volcanic ash on the airframe, wings or engines. The absence of any volcanic ash in the atmosphere supports Ryanair’s stated view that there is no safety threat to aircraft in this mythical “red zone” which is another misguided invention by the UK Met Office and the CAA.

Ryanair has also received written confirmation from both its airframe and engine manufacturers that it is safe to operate in these so called “red zones” and, in any event, Ryanair’s verification flight this morning also confirms that the “red zone” over Scotland is non-existent.

[fl dutchman]

Quite a mixed bag of flights opperating/not opperating. Seems that BA,TOM,TCX,LS,RYR,EKand LH unaffected. Yet BE, EZY, T3, SN AF either cancelled some or all flights.
Not sure if I understand whats going on.
Ash 66, Yes KL have also cancelled some flights but they are all currently running now as I write this post.
Your post re Ryanair makes interesting reading.

[TSR2]

The UK Transport Secretary has just stated on Sky News that they have tracked the flight path of the Ryanair aircraft this morning and contrary to Michael O'Leary's assertion, it did NOT fly through any designated RED Zones.

Someone is misleading the public.

[GrahamK]

Looks like the BA1332 made it halfway to Newcastle before turning back to Heathrow...quite a few other flights being cancelled now as well..

[deltahotel9]

So it travelled between Glasgow, Aberdeen, Inverness and Edinburgh but did not enter the red zone, so why is the airspace closed then? Obviously we are missing something here :hmm:

[fl dutchman]

Looks like a complete standstill at NCL. Inbounds all diverting or cancelled and no departures.

Will be interesting to see if RYR make it in and out later today.

[SWBKCB]

Both RYR's on their way!

[ash666]

Good for them. I saw that a RYR flight from Tallin to Dublin went straight over EDI this afternoon. Point to make??

[SWBKCB]

...but now diverting to LBA.

[ash666]

that's even more ridiculous when it had already got over the top of Newcastle. I wonder who made that decision?
Any sign of ash falling on NCL?

[ash666]

another BA plane just gone over NCL. This is all very strange.

[sunshine79]

Looks like the BA flight flew over EDI and GLA and is heading to LBA.

[ash666]

I'm getting worried for BAW9271. It's gone LHR-ABZ(lots of circling)-Man-NCL-Gla-EDI-NCL(again)-Man(at the moment). It must be on its last drop of fuel.

[Jamie2k9]

Could it be doing a test flight like Ryanair did this morning to check for ash.

[deltahotel9]

According to the Look North the Emirates started to taxi before been told it had to return, then the airport representative said airlines had the final decision, it just doesn't add up. Perhaps I'm being naive but if the ash cloud is at 20,000 ft why can't they just climb to 19,000ft level off and fly under it until they are in clear air then climb out? Same for arrivals descend sooner and fly under the cloud, sounds simple enough doesn't it?

[ash666]

Jamie
Good thinking! Heading in the direction of LHR now.

[fl dutchman]

Yes its doing a test flight.

Is the problem not supposed to be UP to 20,000ft

I understand a few aircraft today have made it into NCL airspace only to divert away, was certainly the case with a KL this afternoon.

Is it really the airlines decision? I think not.

[Jamie2k9]

While over NCL, EDI, GLA, ABZ and heading for MAN it dropped a about 20,000ft and slightly below before going back up to between 25 - 30,000 once past MAN.

[ash666]

Its down at LHR. I'd love to know the results. Spotless?

[spaceman18]

No airlines have approval to operate in high density ash. Nearly all airlines have demonstrated a case for safely flying through medium density. Unfortunately they believe the high density came over NCL today.
As has been said, the ash is posing significant problems below 20000ft, above that, in alot of areas its fine, hence why planes have been seen flying above NCL.
Yes its causing problems, but at least there are no blanket bans like last year, and the decisions are being made based upon better info.

[CentreFix25]

Did todays outbound Emirates not operate? I saw the inbound land.

[ash666]

Centrefix:
see post 24th May 2011, 20:20

[ash666]

looking at flightradar the ash cloud now extends over southern UK and into Europe but lots of flights operating over LHR etc.
Seems as though the rules get re-written when the southern airports would be affected.

[SWBKCB]

Emirates departed about 07.45 this morning.

[spaceman18]

The 'ash cloud' shown on flight radar isnt what airlines or the authorities use to decide whether its safe to fly!

[ash666]

BA test flight:

"Initially it flew over the north of England, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, back to Newcastle. The aircraft then returned to Heathrow and has been examined. We have made initial checks of the aircraft, including the windows, engines and moving parts such as the leading edges. All the filters were then removed and will be sent to a laboratory for further testing. The simple answer is that we found nothing."

[skhwoody]

go to youtube and type in "newcastle airport arrest", happened yesterday while itv were doing their live report.

[GrahamK]

Looks like Air Transat/Canadian Affair are upgrading the YYZ flight to an A330 for Summer 2012, still operating inbound via Exeter by the looks of it though

[CabinCrewe]

Probably more due to the A310's getting withdrawn !

[GrahamK]

If that's the case, good to see that the route will continue, and not go the way of Edinburgh and get dropped.

[KNIEVEL77]

There still doesn't seem to be any signs of the new airport hotel opening any time soon and as for the viewing area, it's still rubble surrounded by Heras fencing............shame.

[10 DME ARC]

KNIEVEL77 - Hotel, last I heard, on here, was that it had been sold to a large chain but these things don't happen over night!
Viewing area/old terminal/flying club - The airport as is the whole of the UK going through very difficult times at the moment with past and present governments wanting to tax UK civil aviation to destruction and never mind the general spending cuts/job losses! Do you think in this climate any company has money to burn on non core items?
Its very difficult for the airport at the moment people are just not booking holidays in this climate, then the ash cloud appeared again more evidence to sway people from going abroad this year!! The airport still has to service loans and provide a dividend to its share holder, local councils and CPH Airports. The one silver lining is the the DXB keeps going from strength to strength, mind you with latest APD rises average return to DXB is another £80 more! In fact the lowest return fare has gone up in the last three years from around £285 to £455! Mostly to the UK government but with some fuel surcharge from Emirates!

[GrahamK]

10 DME ARC, I believe Emirates have now dropped the fuel surcharge again.

[skhwoody]

airport hotel within the next 4 weeks....(so a little birdie told me)

[neil_2008]

I See EZY are opening a base at SEN, what's our chance of getting our low cost London connection back then? They are proposing 10 or so routes (mix of sun and business)/

[apaul]

No chance as the demand would be lower than to Stansted. The announcement suggests all ten routes are to the continent. Maybe it's good news as far as NCL is concerned that EasyJet is prepared to run small bases with 3 aircraft.

[GrahamK]

May provisional stats are out.
The airport handled 411665 pax (-0.6%), and so YTD it's now at 4386537 (-0.8%).

Main routes:
Gatwick +4%
Heathrow +34%
Belfast City -8%
Belfast Int +15%
Birmingham +28%
Bristol +10%

Brussels +28%
Paris CDG +4%
Dusseldorf +23%
Hannover -36%
Dublin +28%
Amsterdam +8%
Dubai -4%

Mixture of Ups and Downs on the sunshine routes.

[fl dutchman]

Quite encouraging. It would have possibly been a growth figure vs last year but a lot of passengers were lost with the ash cloud affecting NCL in May.
I think the LHR were up so much because of last Mays cabin crew dispute. Good news though.

[simonwa]

Air Berlin website is showing Newcastle on the destination map. When you click onto it, it shows a number of routes to destinations in Germany, but you can't currently book any of them. Is this a sign of Air Berlin arriving at NCL? Or is it more to do with the BA codeshare agreement?

[SWBKCB]

Or is it more to do with the BA codeshare agreement?

I think so, as it also shows BA domestic destinations like ABZ and GLA that they currently don't fly to (or they may be making a big push into the UK market:O)

[Currock Base]

Newcastle is included in the BA codeshare agreement with Air Berlin. It won't be a new direct flight.

[CentreFix25]

I'm trying to figure out how an AB-BA code share would work for someone travelling from NCL.

It would have to be BA to LHR, BA from LHR to then connect with AB somewhere else? So thats 3 flights. I bet most AB destinations could be done another way with only 2 flights.

or am I being dense and missing the point?

[skyman771]

or am I being dense and missing the point?
Code share is a marketing aid ! it does not necessarily mean that a particular carriers aircraft operate a particular route , or indeed any fly any sector of it.:ugh:

[Lancelot37]

Dubai -4%

Oh dear I was expecting them to introduce the 777 for the NCL/DUB. Anyone know anything?

[CentreFix25]

Just as well I know what a code share is as I would have been none the wiser with that reply.

You didn't even manage to answer the question. :ugh:

I'm trying to figure out how an AB-BA code share would work for someone travelling from NCL.

I would have quite happily settled for a 'It wont work for someone travelling from NCL'

[Currock Base]

It will work for someone travelling from Newcastle as though BA have some new German destinations.

Likewise it will work for Air Berlin customers in Germany who will see Newcastle as a new destination.

The trick will be in the pricing. Newcastle to somewhere new in Germany would require 2 changes. So it will need to be cheaper than another carrier offering it with 1. I'd guess the only options would be LH / KLM / AF depending on the city pairs.

[CentreFix25]

Thanks for the sensible reply Currock.

[GrahamK]

Are we likely to see some new Jet2 routes for S12? Slightly surprised they havent added Bodrum or Reus to their destination list.

[SWBKCB]

The Journal is reporting that the hotel has been sold to The Cairn Group, owners of the Station Hotel and Holiday Inns at Jesmond, Newcastle and Scotch Corner.

Newcastle Airport hotel to open at last - Business News - News - nebusiness.co.uk (http://www.nebusiness.co.uk/business-news/latest-business-news/2011/06/21/newcastle-airport-hotel-to-open-at-last-51140-28912947/)

[ash666]

Back again from my latest hols and has NCL improved? Of course not. Our Salzburg flight landed just after Emirates and what a queue. I was with a disabled person so jumped the queue but others in our group had a long long long wait. God help anyone who got off the plane needing a toilet. Even an "official" in the immigration area was joking about how bad NCL is. So long before any SZG people got through, apart from the disabled, the bags filled up the carousel which stopped any more coming off. Did the baggage handlers see this coming and use the larger centre carousel? Of course not. When it got stuck did they put the remaining bags through on the centre carousel, standing by idly? Of course not. And why was the screen only reading Amsterdam the whole time???
So even when people got through immigration after their huge wait it couldn't be guaranteed that their bag would have come out.
Of course, after that you get all the people waiting at arrivals standing right across the way out. That would be the revolving doors that take several stop/starts to get through.
Well over an hour to get out of the airport. Not satisfactory at all. Again.

[nclops]

Baggage handlers don't decide which belt the bags are going to be put up, they are pre-determined by the airport so the baggage handlers would have had no choice. Neither can they see what's going on in the arrivals area from where the bags are put onto the belt so they would have no idea of the reason for the stoppage.

[ash666]

though there were NCL people in the arrivals area with walkie talkies who could have told them.

[SN146]

Brussels Airlines seems to be doing really well ever since they've switched from a once daily RJ flight to 3 daily flights on E-jet, probably not only attracting more pax but also commanding higher yields given they now offer a convenient schedule.

Any rumours about the appreciation of the performance on their route by the airline itself, BTW, because here in BRU we hear nothing at all about it, whereas I think it is a very interesting thing to look deeper into!

[fl dutchman]

Is it still there ??


Brussels airlines. Nice to see them doing well. from what I have heard its on time performance is good.

[ash666]

FD
there is certainly a revolving door to get outside the main building.

[fl dutchman]

So the revolving door at the exit from international arivals is gone???? Thats the one that seemed to be a problem some time ago.

[deltahotel9]

Yes it's gone, only the revolving doors to enter the terminal building from outside remain.

[TSR2]

This subject seems to be going round and round ;)

[Delta 8]

I suppose if you land after an A330 at any regional airport you're going be in a queue at some point.

[Jamesair]

Lufthansa has just announced ABZ - FRA 3 x daily to start in Oct....come on NCL we could do with a new route.

[JKKne]

Thats true but the UK Border Agency in Newcastle seem to specialise in slowness and have a unique fondness for making you follow its insane queue barrier system that makes you walk a mile in a circle before you approach the desk before being barked at 'NO MOBILE PHONES, MOVE THIS WAY' - Welcome to Britain

I came in on a Wideroe last year. There were 12 of us on the flight, there was no queue but the UKBA made us do the barrier dance. A fellow passenger dared duck under the barrier to cut the walking time and was screamed at. Not a good impression.

Imagine a transatlantic flight, a few package charters and the Emirates all coming in. The wait would probably be as long as the flight! :8

[compton3bravo]

Well said JKKNE. This happened exactly the same at Luton some months ago when a passenger was barked at for using a mobile and a few of us having to do a merry dance along the columns. I am sure some of the UKBA would be slung out of the Waffen SS for cruelty!
As you say WELCOME TO THE UNITED KINGDOM and as an ex-pat very sad to say you are welcome to it especially if you have just travelled many miles across Europe without any hassle at all! It is all very sad I am afraid.

[virginblue]

Lufthansa has just announced ABZ - FRA 3 x daily to start in Oct....come on NCL we could do with a new route.

Thanks to Gill/Eurowings, you've (still) got DUS - which is not served from MUC or FRA.

[skyman771]

being barked at 'NO MOBILE PHONES, MOVE THIS WAY' - Welcome to Britain
Don't you guys travel overseas ?? as you will find that arrivals halls, and the areas approaching them frequently ban mobiles. You try and use your mobile in a US customs arrivals hall & see what happens if you are caught. You may find that "being barked at" is not the worst experience that one can have.
As it happens I too have been "barked at" by security at NCL whilst innocently trying to rearrange a taxi due to incompetence elsewhere. I certainly didn't take kindly to it, but had to accept that someone somewhere must have worked out some contrived reason why this is a security risk, though I have to presume that this reason must be so obscure and contrived that to publish it would in itself be rendered an act of treason!!;)

[compton3bravo]

Of course we travel ''overseas'' Skyman (started in 1958) and I must say I have never experienced any difficulties at any airports or sea ports worldwide. I thankfully live overseas and like a lot of other ex-pats we only go back to dear old blighty when we really have to. You only realise how unwelcoming and bad it is (cannot go there, can't park there, signs everywhere telling what you can and cannot do) when you are away for say three months and not on a two week holiday. Sorry to be so negative but that is how I and many others see it unfortunately.

[rpmac]

Lived in Spain for 3 years, now back and appreciate the UK even more so than before.

[JKKne]

Don't you guys travel overseas ?? as you will find that arrivals halls, and the areas approaching them frequently ban mobiles. You try and use your mobile in a US customs arrivals hall & see what happens if you are caught. You may find that "being barked at" is not the worst experience that one can have.
As it happens I too have been "barked at" by security at NCL whilst innocently trying to rearrange a taxi due to incompetence elsewhere. I certainly didn't take kindly to it, but had to accept that someone somewhere must have worked out some contrived reason why this is a security risk, though I have to presume that this reason must be so obscure and contrived that to publish it would in itself be rendered an act of treason!!


I travel a hell of a lot and many of my real issues (aside my occasional use Reus) have been with the arrivals process at Newcastle. I had less issues when the US Border Controls saw my Iranian VISA stamp from a business trip

The UKBA personnel at the other regional airports have been upwardly professional and engaging. Newcastle's simply are not. Even the BAA outposts offer a better level. Maybe its the management of the UKBA at Newcastle that encourages such miserableness.

Since the vast majority of Newcastle's flights are leisure the over zealousness of the UKBA as they check a plane load of Mr and Mrs Smith from a week in Benidorm really rings home.

[JSCL]

JKKne, it makes no difference. Allow me to inform you that many illegal drugs, tobacco and money smuggling etc etc are not on suspicious routes. Thy are often people who take routes which mean their inbound would be less suspicious to travelling to Benidorm to then fly in to the UK as a leisure tourist is a perfect route.

But understand that also.

[ash666]

JSCL
The passport people would not get involved in that side of things, that would be for customs.

[Hipennine]

As ash66 said, it's not HMRC (Customs) at NCL - they seem very adept at spotting the cigarette smugglers, etc., without disturbing everybody else, it's the UKBA. The set up is constrained by funnelling all arrivals through those corrals (which are actually designed to be adapted to straight-through when it's quiet, if somebody had the initiative) to just 3 UKBA desks, one of which is for nominally non-eu. I have some sympathy for the people manning those desks. They process most Eu/uk passport holders as fast as possible, given the constraints of the equipment they are using, and they must put up with some grief from very frustrated passengers. but do the maths - say 30 secs avge per pax allowing for any extended questioning, etc., equals 6 pax processed per minute, so get the EK plus a coupla 737's/A320's arriving together, and it could take 2 hours to clear them all through that funnel. In reality, they get them processed a lot faster than that, so they must be pushing people through at quite a rate - there's just not enough of them.

nb. There's enough signs now at every UKBA airport area explicitly telling you not to use a mobile.

nb.nb. If you think that Mr and Mrs J.Public are smuggling innocents, try and be around when HMRC decides to have a good go at an inbound Tenerife (which bizarrely is duty free), and see all the jolly holiday makers from yoofs through frail oldies having their thousands of fags being confiscated.

[JSCL]

Same theory applies. Fly from Lagos to Benidorm for example (if the route exists) then fly onwards with a fake British passport.

[ash666]

But it still takes them longer than any other airport to process someone who is quite obviously local.
Maybe we should all be chipped like animals' pet passports so we can walk straight through a barrier.

[JSCL]

I like the idea of chips, but more like a chip card (chip and pin) - like at a tube station put it in and enter your pin (in case of theft) and then walk right through or get bagged by UKBA if there's issues flagged and it almost happened with the ID cards, but alas it didn't go forward.

[ncleflights]

I do believe that in the Airport Birthday press release Management stated that FRA was high on the list of routes that the airport wished to secure. However given the airports stagnation I am not suprised that Lufthansa has chosen ABZ over NCL. I really fear that in his current role Mr Laws is way in over his head and the management have no idea how to take Newcastle forward. As a airport we failed to maintain current or attract key business routes essential for the regions future economy. In particular Germany and France is poorly served from Newcastle including key business areas and we no longer have any scheduled services to Italy. Almost every press release that Newcastle releases regarding routes they wish to secure you will find New York gets a mention, the birthday press release been a prime example. They need to ditch this idea completely as it aint going to happen and concentrate on trying to secure key business routes within Europe to destinations such as FRA.

[fl dutchman]

I see there is now a codeshare with BA on the FlyBe LGW service. If your flying BA then this connects with quite a number of BA routes that are no longer available via LHR as BA have moved them to LGW.
I would immagine you will earn BA miles and Tier points now on this route. Should give it a bit of a boost perhaps.

[ncleflights]

FL Dutchman - I believe all FLYBE routes ex LGW except jersey are now codeshare with BA

[Ops Guy]

I'm fairly sure management are doing their best to attract new business in to Newcastle in these difficult times. It is their job after all.:ugh:

I really fear that in his current role Mr Laws is way in over his head and the management have no idea how to take Newcastle forward

The role that he has been doing for years now, what do you base this on? Do you work for NIAL and understand what's actually going on?

As for new routes, well times couldn't be harder for an airline to take risks on new routes. The price of fuel, APD and the decline in passenger numbers are just a few.

[fl dutchman]

Yes I realise that.

[ncleflights]

Ops Guy - I am well aware of what is going on at Newcastle - the answer is nothing. Your right the management are doing their best the problem is their best is not good enough. Yes it is their job but I am afraid one that they are not up to and should be removed from as soon as possible.

Yes Mr Laws has been doing the job for years and since taking over the role the airport has been in a steady decline. I appreciate your defence of the airport management team but it is not based on any fact, do you have any evidence of what they have achieved?

I get tired of airport management using the old argument of APD and the price of fuel. That same price of fuel and APD (which is totally unacceptable) affects other medium sized regional airports such as NCL but we are not seeing the same level of decline affecting Edinburgh, Bristol, Liverpool or East Midlands. Why? If all regional airports have the same problems to deal with and they deal with them better and continue to attract new business then the assumption can only be that they are managed better than NCL.

[apaul]

That's a pretty simplistic assumption. Traffic at Manchester and Glasgow has declined at an even faster rate than Newcastle. Are you claiming that these airports are even more badly run? The performance of the airport is reasonable given the size of the population and the strength or otherwise of the North East economy.

[st nicholas]

Could we have a crew route please

[GrahamK]

Edinburgh, Bristol, Liverpool and East Midlands all have larger catchment areas than NCL, which is probably why they're doing a bit better through the mean times. However, which of those airports have a fairly successful Dubai route, or long haul in general (apart from the EDI-EWR route)? :ok:

Things will get better, it'll just take time.

[Hipennine]

As has been pointed out elsewhere on Pprune, a successful airport is not just about new scheduled routes. Is it seriously been suggested that current management is not as good as the previous regime ? - yes there was growth in routes, but a slight economic downturn, and they are pulled, which rather suggests that the underlying yield and profitability profile out of NCL is not as good as elsewhere. That is hardly the airport management's fault.

It would also appear that the previous regime has saddled the airport with a massive debt burden (justified on a business plan forecasts focussed on volume growth) that will have to be paid for somehow (probably by cost-cutting, and which also restricts the cash available for any short term operational improvements).

What is needed now for Newcastle is to re-build a sustainable financial structure, based on a rock solid stable core of business, with a proportionate mix of Sched, loco, and charter, and it seems to me that this is excatly what is going on.

[10 DME ARC]

Nclflts

When it boils down to it you cannot make an airline fly any where and you cannot make people fly to these destinations. The NE has a limited demo graphical destination list! Look at the routes that have been and gone; MUC, SXF, HAM, CGN, CPH, BGY, CIA, BUD those just off top of my head and not including the charter routes lost to increase in low cost! Plus with a limited number of paxs in catchment area new routes impact on existing routes both low cost and charter. Business routes again limited need for direct flights better to feed hubs! FRA will come LH has been promising it for years, but just remember with the limited catchment FRA will effect AMS, LHR, DXB etc etc

Better to have a well balanced number of destinations which all do well rather than a boom and bust approach i.e. new route booms whilst other bust and disappear. As for NYC well I think it will eventually happen and would be a perfect fitting hub to add to NCL's destination list.

[GrahamK]

All quiet on the western front, nothing at all happening with Newcastle at the moment?

[ericlday]

They still have arrivals and departures at the moment.

[GrahamK]

Well, the new hotel is to be a Hilton (DoubleTree).

[macuser]

I thought that was familiar! I searched back and post 205 on this thread - Feb 2009 - read:-


"The new Hotel at the front of the terminal has been confirmed as a Hilton."


Maybe here were some changes rumoured in the meantime.

[Ops Guy]

I searched back and post 205 on this thread - Feb 2009

Was there a mention of a certain American city in the same thread :E

[GrahamK]

June provisional stats:
Airport as a whole handled 472054 +0.7% over year 2010.

Main Routes:
Domestic:
LGW: -4% With FlyBe and BA now codesharing on this route, perhaps figures will rise?
LHR: +22%

International:
BRU: +27%
CDG: -8%
DUS: +5%
DUB: +14%
AMS: +1%
SVG: +50%
DXB: -2%
YYZ: -2%
SFB: +12%


Various other ups and downs, could the airport be starting to turn things around?

[Jamie2k9]

DUB: +14%


Ryanair to continue the increased DUB flights for winter.

[SWBKCB]

Not checked, put presumably LHR was affected by the BA strike last year (and conversely last year's LGW might have been artificially high?)

BRU and DUB seeing the benefits of increased frequency and more realistic scheduling.

[MichaelAM]

It looks like Air France will start using the Avro RJ85 as of November 2011 right through the next year? Is this Air France taking over from Brit Air?

M

[ash666]

MichaelAM
what are they using up to then?

[GrahamK]

I assume it'll be CityJet taking over the flights from Brit Air, yes?

ash666, currently Brit Air operate the flight on behalf of AF using CRJ-700s

[ash666]

thanks:ok:

[SWBKCB]

Newcastle Airport chiefs hail strong performance - Business News - News - nebusiness.co.uk (http://www.nebusiness.co.uk/business-news/latest-business-news//tm_headline=newcastle-airport-chiefs-hail-strong-performance%26method=full%26objectid=29085874%26siteid=51140-name_page.html)


We’re constantly working with airlines to improve frequency and new routes and there’s a possibility of announcements

Let the speculation begin....

[Ops Guy]

All quiet on the western front, nothing at all happening with Newcastle at the moment?

Looks as though things maybe going on behind the scenes. :suspect:

[fl dutchman]

I see its mentioned as a new hotel on the Doubletree web site opening 4th quarter.
Its refered to as New Castle !!.

[KNIEVEL77]

I read that the Leisure Club in the new hotel looks directly down '07', what a great incentive to get fit!

[fl dutchman]

Flights on sale up to end of June 2012. 3 aircraft base continues at NCL, same routes, no new ones at moment.

[Jamesair]

A quick look at the summer charter timetable and there seems to 10 flights a week operated by Onur, on charters to Turkey for the above company.

Very bad at this stage in the season...other companies may put on additional capacity for people unable to take their planned holiday.

something similar happened last season.

[Keyvon]

H4U was the second player with regard to the NCL-Turkey market, after Thomas Cook.

This is a big blow also for NCL.

[sunshine79]

Is anyone else having problems getting onto the airport website? It won't load for me.

[ash666]

No problems for me

[Lancelot37]

No problem for me.

[fl dutchman]

I think they were originally going to do quite a lot of flights from NCL this summer but in reality I understand the actual number of flights opperating with OHY has been 3/4 per week, with the ones due to commence at the end of July not starting when scheduled.

Perhaps someone can confirm or otherwise that this is the case as my info may not be accurate.

I think H4U took seats on some of the TCX flights as well as OHY.

Its a great shame another holiday company has gone down and a great shame for all the passengers who will not get the holiday as booked.

Lets hope they can re book with another opperator as it seems that plenty capacity is still available elsewhere.

[P330]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but I'm hearing that Cityjet will be running the Air France route franchise from winter 11/12. This means Newcastle will see a 3 class service using the Avros, as opposed to Britair CRJs. I believe this is also a capacity increase.

[Delta 8]

Anything interesting happening at Newcastle? Nothing much said on here for a while.

Any rumours about EZY or LS for next year?

[Lancelot37]

Anyone heard when Emirates are going to swop to the 777 instead of the A330-200? It was proposed some months ago.

[BAladdy]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but I'm hearing that Cityjet will be running the Air France route franchise from winter 11/12. This means Newcastle will see a 3 class service using the Avros, as opposed to Britair CRJs. I believe this is also a capacity increase.

Ctyjet's RJ85's can carry up to 95 pax compared to 70 on Brit Airs CRJ700.

WX's Business Cabin is configured with 2 seats on each side. Apart from row 1 where there is only 1 seat. Economy is configured with 3 seats on each side.

From personal experience the RJ85 is a very cramped aircraft. Seat pitch throughout is max 30' .The CRJ700 is far more comfortable and has a seat pitch of 32'

[GrahamK]

No updates on the Emirates other than that they seem to have increased their ground time in Newcastle from 1hr 35 to 1hr 50 mins. Still scheduled as an A332 well into next year at least, and it wouldnt surprise me if NCL was the last A330 destination for the airline. Perhaps moving to the A350 when it arrives rather than the B777.

[GrahamK]

Provisional stats for July now out:

Gatwick +4%
Heathrow -4%
Brussels +44%
Paris CDG -6%
Dusseldorf +6% (possibility of a 3rd daily service?)
Dublin +14%
Amsterdam +6%
Oslo Rygge +9%
Bergen +27%
Stavanger +20%
Dubai +3% (90% load based on A332HD used on all flights - possibly the busiest month ever for the route?)


Overall, the airport seen a decline of passengers of 0.5%, so maybe things are starting to level out?

[neil_2008]

I notice from this post we are now the smallest EZY base:

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/370654-easyjet-4-a-107.html#post6647438

[CentreFix25]

I don't imagine for a second they are going anywhere as i'm sure they've whittled their flying program down to the most lucrative of routes. If they did go i'm sure they wouldn't be missed by the travelling public, most routes are already shared with other carriers and the ones that aren't would be snapped up by LS.

[debbie1991]

Were the same size as SEN. Although the yields from SEN will no doubt be better than NCL. It does show that EZY are committed to three craft bases. Mind saying that anything is possible. Certainly until next summer were a three craft base. After that who knows. Stay the same. Close. Or grow. I don't think it would work quite the same if we went to two or one craft.

[neil_2008]

I agree I don't think they'll go anywhere for now but I disagree that they won't be missed. NCL is one of the most expensive regional airports to fly from with carriers expecting far higher cost per seat fares than from other regionals, EZY although is cashing in on this, its to a far lesser extent than LS. Compare LS fares from Leeds or Manchester to basic med / European routes against those offered by the same carrier from NCL, there is a massive price difference.

This is not a case of yeilds / seats sold, the launch prices are totally different too with far less true low cost seats available from the outset from NCL.

[easy6826]

As an ex Cabin Crew member for EZY based at East Midlands, when we got told the base was closing in January 2010, this was because apparently a 3 aircraft base was simply not financially viable. Trust me, as I worked for EZY for 8 years, if they do not expand a base, especially a 3 aircraft base, sooner or later they will look at the figures and see that the three aircraft can be better utilised elsewhere and they WILL move out. The same happened to DTM in 2009, a year before they closed EMA.

[skyman771]

Were the same size as SEN. Although the yields from SEN will no doubt be better than NCL.
Any comparison or relevence to NCL doubtful, SEN / EZY can't fail in short term, certain event named "London Olympics":hmm:

[cjags]

Don't write EZY off at NCL just yet. Apparently it is performing significantly better with 3 aircraft, compared to many of EZYs other bases. :ok:

Edit: Shocking literacy skills

[CentreFix25]

I agree I don't think they'll go anywhere for now but I disagree that they won't be missed. NCL is one of the most expensive regional airports to fly from with carriers expecting far higher cost per seat fares than from other regionals, EZY although is cashing in on this, its to a far lesser extent than LS. Compare LS fares from Leeds or Manchester to basic med / European routes against those offered by the same carrier from NCL, there is a massive price difference.

This is not a case of yeilds / seats sold, the launch prices are totally different too with far less true low cost seats available from the outset from NCL.

I don't quite grasp this posting, you might need to simplify it for me from a travelling publics point of view when all i'm interest in is flying from NCL at the cheapest price. On the route I've flown every year (from NCL) for the last 9 years LS were the cheapest (v EZY).

[debbie1991]

^ But LS have only operated from NCL since 2005/six years. So how can this be true?

[neil_2008]

In simple terms the point I am making is that it is typically cheaper to fly from another regional airport to a given destination than it is to fly from NCL. Costs per seat are higher from NCL than from other comparable regional airports.

Also in my experience EZY are in general cheaper than LS, although on certain dates I'm sure we could find examples both proving and disproving the point.

[CentreFix25]

But LS have only operated from NCL since 2005/six years. So how can this be true?

Badly worded - LS were cheapest this year.

In simple terms the point I am making is that it is typically cheaper to fly from another regional airport...

I don't know how typical I am as flying public, but I dont look at fares from other airports. My usual route is NCL-PMI and I look to compare prices on carriers flying that route, I don't look for alternatives to NCL. If EZY stopped I would compare LS with TCX and TOM and go for the cheapest, TOM were the cheapest in 2009, EZY last year and LS this year. So by that logic and as long as there was competition on the route I wouldn't miss EZY.

[Hipennine]

Neil 2008,

I completely agree. The price differential at times between Newcastle and other regionals on similar routes and timings with the same airline can be breathtaking (same for package holidays as well). In EZY's case, when you start comparing fares ex NCL with Stansted or Luton, it can be astonishing. I've also noticed that there can be a lot more of "sideways" promotions for the ex London flights (eg free ski carriage, etc,.). It would not be the first time that 2 or 3 of us have found it £100's of pounds cheaper to drive down to Luton or STN for a return GVA than direct from NCL, and with a greater choice of convenient flight times.

[Ph1l1pncl]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but why is it then that Newcastle fares are higher than other regional airports? Is it just down to less competition in Newcastle, or because we are more isolated region, airlines feel that we will pay for money to fly locally than travelling else where in the country? Or even both factors?

Or does Newcastle just have the highest fees and charges compared to other regional airports.

[neil_2008]

Indeed, out of say 12 foreign trips this year I am doing only 2 from NCL, despite being only 7 or 8 miles from the airport. I will use LPL, MAN, DSA, LBA and LGW this year and on at least 2/3 occasions the same route is available from NCL.

You would expect London airports to be cheaper due to competition and number of users however I can't understand how LS seem to be able to charge what they do from NCL when its fraction of what they are charging flying the same routes from EDI and LBA.

[SWBKCB]

Amazed nobodies picked this up!

Newcastle Airport bosses in Big Apple link talks - Business News - News - nebusiness.co.uk (http://www.nebusiness.co.uk/business-news/latest-business-news//tm_headline=newcastle-airport-bosses-in-big-apple-link-talks%26method=full%26objectid=29278123%26siteid=51140-name_page.html)

[maxtoon]

hmm ... not this again!

I'd rather wait till any NYC deal is done and dusted rather than speculate ..

[skyman771]

hmm ... not this again!
:ugh::ugh:My sentiments entirely.:ugh::ugh:

[andrewmcharlton]

Nothing more than spin and dreaming.....not sure the use of the words "crash and burn" works too well from a PR stand point !

[10 DME ARC]

NYC?? Why all the sarcastic comments?! NYC fits the profile as a west bound hub just like Dubai did for East bound. It wins as a tourist destination, as DXB is, and a one stop hub to destinations that presently take two stops or more! You only have to look at the amount of people travelling via AMS/CDG/LHR/LGW or driving to MAN/EDI/GLA daily!

Ye small minded people!! Who would have predicted 90% load factors to DXB!

[Ops Guy]

If demand wasn't there, then I doubt they would be wasting their's and an airlines time in trying to secure a route. As the article states, it got to the point where slots were applied for so clearly the demand was there back then.

As 10 DME correctly says, "Who would have predicted 90% load factors to DXB".

Watch this space :E

[ncleflights]

Time again to discuss this one.

While I wish the Newcastle team well in meetings with the 'unnamed US airline', this has to be Continental? I would be very suprised to see the team come back with news of a new route to NYC.

Too many factors against this at the moment, the state of both the UK and US economy, APD, oil cost etc.

Of these APD is of particular concern especially given what the Scottish Govt are trying to get approval for.

[CabinCrewe]

Near the height of the boom ,AA withdraw. Now, deep international recession- CO from NCL ( after their withdrawal from BRS, BFS on the brink, GLA/EDI winter reductions) - I wouldnt have thought so.

Almost as unlikely as the recent CWL press speculation.

EK westbound to DXB is a different kettle of fish entirely and most of those routes ex UK have plateaud or declined past few months with NCL not being at the top of the bunch.
Watch this space..... Yes, maybe in a decade..... :rolleyes:

[potash]

Cosmos to add regional airports | News | Travel Trade Gazette (http://www.ttgdigital.com/cosmos-to-add-regional-airports/4630912.article)

[skyman771]

CabinCrewe
Ref NYC.. Well said! :D
Glad to see that we are all not dreamers, This has been ongoing for about same time span as that since NUFC won any silverware.
Reality is that we'll see neither in the forseeable future !!:{

Perhaps we would all waste less time in discussing "Comos's future plans" as noted by "Potash";)

[Delta 8]

Any expansion will be good.

[GrahamK]

Cosmos holidays from Newcastle to CFU and ZTH, operated by TCX.

[ncleflights]

NYC - as previously stated by myself I cant see this route anytime soon. The rumour is that the unknown airline the airport are having discussions with is Delta which if true makes little sense given route reductions this winter to other European destinations by Delta

[Jamesair]

I read that Jet 2 will base another 737-300 at NCL (G-GDFE) from 2nd September as a standby a/c for the Royal Mail network at night and pax services during the day.

[GrahamK]

Nowt new for S12 from Jet2 other than a second Palma flight on a saturday I take it?

[airhumberside]

MAH goes back to 1xWeek with the Monday flight axed. This in turn allows the Sat IBZ to move to Mon enabling the 2nd Sat PMI

ALC goes from 4-6xWeek this Summer to 6-7xWeek next Summer. Faro sees some off peak reductions

[Jamesair]

There is still plenty time for an announcement of new routes but would probably need another based a/c

[ncleflights]

Just got back from the US earlier today with Virgin. Was chatting to Cabin crew and they mentioned that Virgin were planning a limited service NCL to Orlando in 2013. Imagine along the lines of Glasgow operation. Now that would be interesting if the plans come off!!

[HH6702]

Long time since ive posted on here so here is my updates to what i think

I thought that Virgin was planning to operate to SFB for Summer 2012 but since they are leasing 2 A330 out they must be short of aircraft instead. Im sure that virgin holidays have seats on our daily EK service. With virgin having a travel shop in the centre of twn i believe that they will start to expand at NCL.

Im sure that virgin would buy seats on whoever starts the NEW YORK service too.

BRS lost there service as they are close too LHR and CO now have slots and flights from there. NCL is a total different area and i think we could get the route this time fingers crossed.

With BA and IB now part of the same group and IB starting flights to MAD from man and glasgow what are the chances they start a MAD service from NCL using the CRJ1000?

TCX for summer 2012 anybody know what the plans are 4x 757 but will 2 of the aircraft be from outside the group?

THink we will see TCX and TOM adding extra flights to turkey next summer but will see when 2nd/3rd editions brochures go on sale at the end of the year.

Im sure JET2 will add some new routes later this year for next summer.
Bodrum Would be a good bet cash in on H4U failure.

What do you think guys???

[SWBKCB]

Monarch still talking about

...expansion into new UK bases and new routes from 2012...

[andrewmcharlton]

I can't see the location of a Virgin Travel Shop having one iota of bearing on where they schedule aircraft to or from. If Virgin are or were short of aircraft then they won't be deploying a/c onto routes lightly and I'm sure they have a plethora of higher yield routes they will plough before a new seasonal start up.

There is no NYC service so buying seats is a moot point as most travel operators would buy some seats.

[Jamesair]

I suppose there is a vague possibility of BMI operating to FRA for Lufthansa, but that will depend on how they view what the effect might be on their DUS route. Otherwise I would expect LH to increase DUS to 3x daily.

We could do with CPN and Italy is not served at all now.

[Jamie2k9]

From Thur 12 January DUB - NCL goes 14 weekly (2 daily). Last winter it operated daily and since last March it has being 11 weekly.

[Jamesair]

Good news. Looking at the website it seems to become 2 x daily from 4th January.
morning flight...arr NCL 1035...dep NCL 1100
The evening flight looks a bit odd...arr NCL 2150...dep NCL 2155...must be an error there.

[neil_2008]

Whats the Farnborough flight on todays board? Thats an unusual one : BD8939

[ericlday]

Chelsea playing Sunderland Saturday, possibly them flying in ???

[yeo valley]

perhaps fr will drop them by parachute. 5 mins to make sure they all jump off.

[Jamesair]

EASTERN will be adding an additional early afternoon departure to Cardiff on Thursdays only from 3rd October. Dep NCL...1250 Arr NCL....1710

[BAladdy]

The new Thursday flight will operate

ABZ-NCL-CWL-BHX-NCL

[Yak97]

As the return CWL-BHX-NCL has the BHX-NCL flight number presume ABZ-NCL-CWL some form of charter and that the afternoon NCL-BHX will be canx (still showing at the moment)?

[BAladdy]

T34035 ABZ-NCL-CWL
&
T34626 CWL-BHX-NCL

These flights are showing as operating every Thursday through until at least March 2012.

So I doubt very much it is a charter.

[Yak97]

So there will be 2 flights at the same time BHX-NCL T34626 at 1610, one coming from CWL as T34626 and one from NCL as T34625 arr 1540?

Didn't think the BHX-NCL was that busy.

[Jamie2k9]

NCL - Rygge with FR being pulled from 8 Jan next.

[Jamesair]

That's not the kind of news we want to hear Jamie!!!! so Ryanair will be back to 2 routes next summer, unless they come up with something else.

Maybe Norwegian will step in, or Flybe.

[Jamesair]

I wonder if NCL will be included in the "many" new routes to be announced by Easyjet in the next few weeks?

[neil_2008]

"many new routes" I doubt NCL will see any of those, I think the 3 a/c base is a sign of EZY's commitment to NCL.

[richardhall99]

June Pax stats
Aberdeen -14%
Belfast City -18%
Belfast Int +0.2%
Birmingham +12%
Bristol -3%
Cardiff -25%
Dublin +14%
Exeter +7%
Isle of Man -46%
London Gatwick -3%
London Heathrow +21%

Amsterdam +0.8%
Brussels +27%
Dusseldorf +5%
Paris -7%

[Jamesair]

Richard...you had me totally confused for a minute until I realised you were quoting the JUNE statistics.

The AUGUST statistics are now available on the CAA website.

Incidentally, NCL - IOM traffic seems to have totally collapsed with the August figure of 98 pax down 84% on August 2010

[GrahamK]

And the August provisional stats:

Gatwick +6%
Heathrow -2%

Brussels +51%
Paris CDG -14%
Dusseldorf -6%
Dublin +12%
Amsterdam +5%
Stavanger +14%
Dubai -10%

Overall the airport was 3.5% down on Aug 2010, and YTD is down 0.6%

[CabinCrewe]

Dubai down 10% ? Thats a bit odd. Is that a trend ? Not what you want to see when thinking about getting an aircraft upgrade. GLA and MAN still showing increases.

[Jamesair]

The loss of the Onur flights wouldn't have helped August's pax figure

[GAXLN]

NCLDXB. Sixteen of the thirty-one flights were operated with low density A330's due engineering requirements on the high density aicraft which led to the reduction in numbers.

[GrahamK]

That would give an average load of 82.8%. Don't think there's gonna be an upgrade in a/c type anytime soon.

[GAXLN]

Graham K - what seat factor then does warrant an upgrade in aircraft type?

[CentreFix25]

I'm not an airline person, but if I were, I wouldn't be thinking about more capacity until the existing one was full most of the time.

If you dont fill the existing aircraft on a regular basis, why would you put a bigger one on. The only thing I can think of is freight.

[Ringwayman]

In the early 2000s, MAN was achieving well over 90% loads before they went to 777s May also depend on business class sales so it'd be good to know how full of fare-paying passenbers that class is.

Generally, for NCL, i'd imagine it's going to be a 2 class 77W that's earmarked (427/442 seats) and at present, it would only be around 60% full passenger wise and in addition, cargo capacity may be a consideration - EK's recent blurb on MAN indicates that that their cargo carrying ex-NCL and BHX is suffering at the hands of MAN.

[ash666]

EZY announcing new routes. None from NCL.
New Routes for summer 2012 | easyJet.com (http://www.easyjet.com/en/book/summer_2012_new_routes.html?utm_source=News_20110923_EN&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=B1)

[SWBKCB]

Newcastle International Airport expands in £3.2m investment - Today's News - News - JournalLive (http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2011/09/26/newcastle-international-airport-expands-in-3-2m-investment-61634-29489092/)

"airport" and "expansion" in the same sentence - good grief!

Also looks like the new hotel is open.

[ash666]

"In total the new build will provide an extra 5,242sq ft of terminal space, which will mean the current number of baggage screen lanes can be doubled to 10".

As long as someone tells them that it only works if they use them!

[Jamesair]

JET 2 have added a Thursday flight to Dalaman for summer 2012...NCL dep 0930...arr NCL 1935. This would appear to need a sixth aircraft.

[chris1001]

Great news that the airport is expanding again. How about allocating some money to revamp the arrivals pier and replace those filthy floor tiles, give a lick of paint and lighten the lower pier area up?

Might be worthwhile for someone from the airport to stand and listen to the comments from arriving intnl passengers as they negotiate the rediculous maze prior to customs. First impressions are vital and Newcastle needs to take a critical look at passenger experience.

[skyman771]

First impressions :-
The airport’s immigration arrivals area is also being redeveloped to offer a more seamless journey for people arriving in the North-East
Perhaps the largest number of moans in recent years, on this site at least, in respect of customer experience is undoubtedly been directed towards the hassle of getting through customs on arrival & the rather unpleasant experience of waiting in long lines on the stairs leading up to this area.
One hopes that those in authority have acceeded to the many complaints & addressed this issue, to which much blame has been placed on low staffing of customs officials.
Maybe I'm missing something but if you are to "double up" departure facilities & ignore those on arrival then in aggregate you achieve very little in overall customer experience on the basis that arrivals numbers equate to those of departures.
Now I haven't seen any plans though understand that this is a "3 level" bolt on type of expansion, so lets hope that this does address the "arrivals experience" in some positive way.
In noting how long it took to sort out the earlier & obvious revolving door problems at baggage claim, then I'm not holding my breath !

[Seljuk22]

Upgrading our Newcastle service to a Boeing 777 will be a natural next step for a route that is now well established and performing well. A lot depends on when we have a Boeing 777 available to operate on the route, but I would hope that will happen in the not too distant future.

WORLD ROUTES 2011: Five minutes with... Emirates Airline :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/36/the-hub/127434/world-routes-2011-five-minutes-with-emirates-airline-/)

[Lancelot37]

Fingers crossed for our next trip to Perth from NCL on 16th January 2012.

[Jamesair]

Has anyone heard any rumours or hints of new routes or other expansion for 2012?

[SWBKCB]

Quote:
Upgrading our Newcastle service to a Boeing 777 will be a natural next step for a route that is now well established and performing well. A lot depends on when we have a Boeing 777 available to operate on the route, but I would hope that will happen in the not too distant future.
WORLD ROUTES 2011: Five minutes with... Emirates Airline :: Routesonline


Can't find the story linked - what does (did?) it say?

[Jamesair]

Click onto the link in Seljuk22's post and the quote is near the end of the interview.

[SWBKCB]

Thanks - but when I click on the link it doesn't take me to the story but 'the hub' page with many news items which doesn't include "Five minutes with... Emirates Airline" (I can find "Five minutes with...Malaysian" and "Five minutes with...London Southend Airport"). Also, I search doesn't find it either.

[ash666]

SWB
I've just tried the link again and it now does what you say. However, the article didn't say any more than the poster put.

[GrahamK]

Basically all it said was all UK flights are doing well, they'll be more A380s to the UK in the future, and that Newcastle will be upgraded to a 777 when a suitable variant becomes available (i.e. 2 class 772ER or 77W).

[fl dutchman]

I wonder if TCX will be basing 4 aircraft at NCL next summer. From what I have heard there has been a lot of slack in the schedules this summer and it looks like some flight series have finished earlier than planned.

Tommorrow ( Friday ) only one departure from 4 aircraft in the morning.

Normally most summer charter departures go through to mid/end of October with the returns early November when the winter services kick in.

[deltahotel9]

It's quite common for the Greek flights to finish earlier than e.g. the Spanish ones so I wouldn't read too much into that. With 4 aircraft the programme was lighter per aircraft than it has been in the past but as long as they can get someone to fly for them next year again I would expect the 4 based units to return.

[nigel osborne]

Re Emirates possible upgrade to a 777..Will it get off the 7,300ft runway, I know BHX does it but they have 8,600ft (to be 9,750ft by 2014).

Surely off the small NCL runway would have to operate with restricted weight, unless NCL are going to extend their runway a bit as well?:sad:

Nigel

[apaul]

The runway is a bit over 7,600ft. There's an earlier discussion about which 777 version would have to be used. Emirates have already flown the 777 in and out of Newcastle for the 75th anniversary celebrations.

[Earlyriser]

I heard NCL will be extending the runway! At the Dinnington End permission has been granted to reroute the road to do so!

[ash666]

"I heard NCL will be extending the runway! At the Dinnington End permission has been granted to reroute the road to do so!"

I'd heard the extension was going to be an underpass under the road.

[Richard Taylor]

"I'd heard the extension was going to be an underpass under the road. "

Now that'll make for interesting arrivals/departures...:eek: ;)

[ash666]

I was only joking with that one.
What I'd really heard is that they were changing the runway into a 3000m moving walkway to save aircraft fuel.

[SWBKCB]

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

from memory, it was suggested in the masterplan from a few years ago that if there was going to be an extension it would be at the Dinnington end.

[CentreFix25]

Runway extension... about as likely as a scheduled service to NY, dream on boys.

[highwideandugly]

Nigel......Ironically Emirates I think operated their B777 movement from Birmingham earlier in the year due snow at Birmingham? Plus a Glasgow 777 ?

[CabinCrewe]

Dont think any of the diverted flights operated fully laden back direct

[skyman771]

CentreFix25
Runway extension... about as likely as a scheduled service to NY
At least someone has restored reality. Incidentally I think you have even over stated the probability, as reality is that there is NO CHANCE of any significant extension.
I believe the maths were done some time ago when things were looking a lot brighter (5M pax & increasing) and then even in projecting steady continued growth the maths simply did not add up. Massive costs & no one prepared to pay, least of all the airlines themselves! & then to cap it all the bubble burst !!!:{

[nigel osborne]

Highwideandugly,

Yes thats right they did, sure EK know what they are doing,and suppose it can operate with weights suiting the available runway.Be nice for NCL if its a 77W.:)

Nigel

[Jamesair]

FLYBE

I notice that Hannover is not in the Summer 2012 timetable...looks like another lost route.

[apaul]

Flybe hasn't loaded all of its Summer programme onto the website yet. You can clearly fly NCL to Hanover via Southampton in Summer 2012, but you can book that yet, so they may still have direct flights as well.

[CentreFix25]

Heard a sneaky little rumour that the Monarch A330 might be back as an extra SFB next year, I have no other info though.

[Jamesair]

I read an article about Jet 2 having had a particularly good Summer at NCL this year but no mention of any further expansion (yet)

[deltahotel9]

Jet2 should make lots of money at NCL as their fares are much higher than from other bases, same for EZY. If the fares weren't so high maybe they would do even better as people wouldn't travel to MAN, LBA, EMA etc to save money so more pax ex-NCL?

[Robert-Ryan]

Heard today that Ryanair are soon to announce NCL-FAO, no further info known though.

[HH6702]

HOPEFULLY NOT!!!
unless they are going to base aircraft at NCL and operate a range of flights and creating more jobs at NCL then i cant see the point....

They will upset both easyjet and jet2 who seem to be working well on the route together....

Cant see why the airport would want to allow Ryanair onto this route. After all in a years time they will drop it......
We have now lost Oslo,Milan to name a few... get a deal for a little while then drop once the low fees end......

Would rather see the airport give a little extra to Jet2 hopefully get a sixth aircraft next summer or give Easyjet a chance on longer routes with a A320 than to let FR in......

BE.... where is all these promised routes from the north east???
We still all waiting.......

any thoughts ??

[SWBKCB]

OK, stupid question time - what do you mean by:

Cant see why the airport would want to allow Ryanair onto this route.

If RYR want to operate the route, what can the airport do to stop them?

[10 DME ARC]

SWBKCB "If RYR want to operate the route, what can the airport do to stop them?" Well if RYR wanted to pay full landing fee's and full passenger handling then nothing!!
But no low cost pay this, its all done on 'deals' in fact some airlines are now asking airports to pay them per pax for operating routes!!:rolleyes:

[SWBKCB]

But RYR are an existing customer so will know the going rate - don't think NIA will get away with trying to stop RYR because they have existing operators on the route.

[Ops Guy]

Haven't been on here for a while. Seems I haven't missed much :ugh:

Well said 10 D. I will be very surprised to see Ryanair on this route competing with EZY, LS, TCX and TOM. Can't see the airport upsetting 4 based operators to let Ryanair on the exising route and then move on in 12 months time. All new routes and rates will be well negotiated before an airline announces a route. Especially in this current climate.

Some one mentioned runway extension: dream on. It's never going to happen - no requirement. Except for a double daily EK A380 :ok:

[CentreFix25]

NCL is not going to do anything to upset RYR, it's a-no brainer business decision in these tough times.

If they want to fly the route then NCL won't get in the way.

[Piltdown Man]

But customers have a choice. If the filthy pikey paid me to fly, I still wouldn't get on one of his planes. And just to make it clear, I'd only ever fly Ryanair if one of my family was about to die and this was the only way to see them. However, MOL is doing my company a favour by reducing our rates where ever we both fly. We won't pay more than than him. So our airport fees have reduced over the past few years.

PM

[Piltdown Man]

if there was going to be an extension it would be at the Dinnington end.

That is what I have heard. But this is where airport managers show their lack of understanding about airliners and their operation. After all, most of them are little more than shopping mall landlords and parking concession operators. But returning to the problem. On runway 25, most aircraft at NCL are restricted on the second segment climb. This is because of the higher ground within the splay around the extended centreline of that runway. The splay is considered by measurement from the end of the runway (well TODA actually). So you could well find that no matter what length of runway is built, the weight that can be lifted by an aircraft won't increase by much at all.

PM

[Flyit Pointit Sortit]

Increased v2???

However to have an real increase in take off weight, you would need a substantial increase in rwy length to benefit from the improved climb option.

If you look at the cost versus any benefit, it just makes no sense. Continental operate flights to New York, from Bristol and that rwy is shorter than NCL. Besides within current facilities flights operate to Orlando and the Carribean. What would we be looking at operating with a longer runway??? We are never going to be a long haul airport, nor would I want it to be.

Let's keep operating those flights which keep the airport going. There are already financial issues to be resolved without lumbering it with more debts that just wont't be paid off.

My airline would not be happy having to pay extra fees to finance a development that would not benefit either ourselves or any of the other airlines here.

[Piltdown Man]

FPS - I agree with you. That is pure common sense. If the big boys want a longer bit of tarmac, let them pay for it. I also agree that NCL is not suited to be a long-haul airport as well, if for no other reason than the 'traffic' is not sophisticated enough to support a traditional long haul network.

And remember whenever you go through the airport that you are paying for the bonus paid to previous directors for borrowing money in the airport's name. You'll also be paying that for years to come. But the next thing you'll be paying for are the new "strip you stark b*****k naked" scanners and security search area. And I'm sure you'll all be pleased to know that only operators of the same sex as those being scanned will see the results. Quite why I don't know. It's presumably to stop the operators from getting any form of 'satisfaction' from seeing the images. But if you run the logic of that decision to its natural conclusion, you'll have to make sure that none of these operators are gay, just in case they might... But that is not legal! All together now: "The lunatics - have taken over the..."

Never put security in the same sentence as safety and/or common sense.

PM

[HH6702]

Hi
How is NCL not suited for long haul??
Ncl has done ok in the past on charter routes to dom rep, cancun and orlando....
We even have a daily Dubai which many of you said would be hard to fill daily and some didnt expect it to last long...

Dubai is doing well much better than plan...
We just need to have faith that other long haul routes can be set up and work...

Not going into it but NCL needs the link to the US on a 757..

Ncl needs to grow both medium n long haul routes.
The airport will contiune to grow but slower than planned.

It would be nice to get YYZ back to 2x weekly as per a few years ago giving the northeast people more choice of days to fly!!

[CentreFix25]

H, there's just not the demand for a Westbound scheduled service from NCL, don't let the Summer holiday makers to Florida make you think there is.

Pulling a route even before it's started (also in better economical times) is a good indicator. The availability of Westbound flights from MAN, EDI and GLA is also a factor. You also can't gat a pallet in the hold of a 757 - also a factor, but you can in the Emirates A330 (thats a big reason why Dubai works).

We might technically not be in recession, but it's not good, and won't be for a good few years - if your running a business it's just not worth the risk.

Over the last couple of years most airports have shown a drop in passenger numbers. While they all would love to grow, i'm sure most would be happy to just stand still.

The Westbound Toronto only survived by the skin of its teeth last year, and is only operating now with half-a-plane load shared with Exeter. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the route when the A310 fleet is gone.

I'm just trying to think what new route would work out of NCL, and it it were my money would I take a risk on it, and I can't. I'd keep my money because I can't see it making a decent enough return on anything Ex-NCL.

[CabinCrewe]

We even have a daily Dubai which many of you said would be hard to fill daily and some didnt expect it to last long...

Dubai is doing well much better than plan...

Mmm big drop last month apparently due to "wrong type of aircraft" and then much lower figures and lowest percentage increase compared to other UK station totals this month (Sept figures).... I suspect its doing fine. Much better might be pushing it a bit. I suspect the long awaited 777 is a little way off.

[GAXLN]

Some interesting observations in recent posts. HH6702's recent comments are pretty accurate as to the situation which pertains. Newcastle can support transatlantic scheduled flights and it will be a question of when not if. I have seen figures which prove the current scheduled US market from Newcastle is much larger than the Emirates market was before Emirates started up at Newcastle. The question is which transatlantic carrier will be the first to make the move to secure this market for themselves?

As for recent Dubai performance, with the high seat factors on the route, it is no surprise growth is hard to come by. But always think yield as that is what matters and look forward to the day when a 777-300 on this route will be an everyday occurance.

[CentreFix25]

I give up:ugh:

[fl dutchman]

Still some growth on the route. Just to clarify.

NCL Dubai +2%
BHX Dubai -3%
GLA Dubai +3%
LGW Dubai +3%
LHR Dubai +5%
MAN Dubai + 18%

I would expect the Man growth is a lot to do with the A380.

I think the aircraft types on the NON NCL routes give a better customer experience ie better seats in Business, more room etc. So when the NCL route is eventually upgraded it may capture some of the passengers in the NCL region who still prefer to travel to use the MAN service for those reasons. If that makes any sense.

[Skipness One Echo]

I have seen figures which prove the current scheduled US market from Newcastle is much larger than the Emirates market was before Emirates started up at Newcastle. The question is which transatlantic carrier will be the first to make the move to secure this market for themselves?

Figures from a reputable source? I love figures, care to share?