NEWCASTLE - 8

[ATNotts]

Those numbers are shockingly low for coming into peak summer transatlantic. On the basis of this load factor, it's a goner, the aircraft can be used more profitably in a stronger market. In regional flying btw, they really need to make money in Economy as business class travel is traditionally weaker, hence the way Virgin out of GLA is shall we say, not cheap.

United and Emirates are not the same.......! By a looong shot.

Agree, if the numbers are correct it doesn't look good, and these days airlines don't give a route 2 years to mature as they did many years ago.

Of course a big difference between Emirates and United (aside the alleged "unlevel" playing field that US carriers constantly whinge about) is that there is a meaningful cargo space to be sold on the 773, and next to nothing on the 757 so there isn't another revenue stream to be tapped.

[EK77WNCL]

Give us a 787, save on fuel, make an agreement with Emirates, fill with ongoing cargo, before you know it NCL is an East-West cargo hub with a daily 787 to New York :) :) :)

In all seriousness I hope we get lucky and UA give us another year to prove ourselves, although they'll probably use it as ammunition in the ME3/US3 debate... "Emirates must be subsidised because they fly a daily 777 to Dubai, where no-one would ever want to go, and haven't pulled out. But we fly a 5 weekly 757 to a city everybody wants to be in and can't turn a profit and have been FORCED to cut the route"

Maybe the high fares have meant it has actually broken even...?

[ATNotts]

Give us a 787, save on fuel, make an agreement with Emirates, fill with ongoing cargo, before you know it NCL is an East-West cargo hub with a daily 787 to New York :) :) :)

In all seriousness I hope we get lucky and UA give us another year to prove ourselves, although they'll probably use it as ammunition in the ME3/US3 debate... "Emirates must be subsidised because they fly a daily 777 to Dubai, where no-one would ever want to go, and haven't pulled out. But we fly a 5 weekly 757 to a city everybody wants to be in and can't turn a profit and have been FORCED to cut the route"

Maybe the high fares have meant it has actually broken even...?

The problem is that if EWR isn't planned to continue, at some frequency, through the Winter season, then a lot of the groundwork done in S15 is undone as a result of the service break. Any business traffic (the profitable element) gained this summer will revert to hubbing over AMS / LHR or flying direct from MAN / EDI and then they will have to fight to get it back to NCL.

Anyway, lets hope the yields overall have been good enough for UA to return next summer - at least they haven't pulled it mid season, so surely it can't be that dire.

[LiamNCL]

If United goes it will be down to pricing simple as that , Im not so sure a 757 direct is any more appealing than a few more hours spent traveling on KLM / BA / AF on better aircraft and with a cheaper bill

Suprisingly though it is the Business seats that are being filled and economy that is struggling !

[Jamie2k9]

Will keep saying this

UNITED WILL NEVER BE 100%!!!!!!
It's NOT a CHARTER........

United would be expecting a minimum of 80-90%+ LF during the summer and the 60% been achieved wouldn't even be acceptable in winter where 70%+ would be the norm.

Frequency can't really be cut any more and with it's performance so far it's a question of when it will be scrapped not if, they would probably achieve a higher return operating a 3rd daily EDI-EWR....

Aren't BRS also looking to return a NY connection, lots of competition for the 752!

If United goes it will be down to pricing simple as that , Im not so sure a 757 direct is any more appealing than a few more hours spent traveling on KLM / BA / AF on better aircraft and with a cheaper bill

Suprisingly though it is the Business seats that are being filled and economy that is struggling !

You need Y to preform very well on such routes also, 16 seats in J is nothing to most carriers.

[AerRyan]

Very few people who use the service know or care what aircraft they will be on so its a fairly invalid point.

A direct service will always beat an indirect service, alot of people just hate the hassle of a transfer when a direct service is available. Therefore the direct will always win.

As an onlooker to NCL, I believe that it needs advertising targeting its competitors. Target the PAX going to MAN, GLA , EDI etc.

[GW76]

if thats the case, why are thousands still routing to
New York via AMS and LHR?

[AerRyan]

if thats the case, why are thousands still routing to
New York via AMS and LHR?

*Prove they are.
*Some will always follow their wallets and not convience more will follow convience to an extent.
*Lack of route awareness.

[Skipness One Echo]

A direct service will always beat an indirect service, alot of people just hate the hassle of a transfer when a direct service is available. Therefore the direct will always win.
Beat on what?
*Prove they are.
*Some will always follow their wallets and not convience more will follow convience to an extent.
*Lack of route awareness.
The numbers clearly show KLM, BA et al still have a loyal load of customers who will connect. You must (at least try) and understand that high spending customers whom the airlines need to make these sort of routes work have a loyalty with existing airlines and alliances. Hence it's hugely simplistic and warrantly innacurate that people simply choose a direct routing. Were that the case, BRS-EWR would still be with us.

[SWBKCB]

Had a good look, haven't spotted a fact in a while - just plenty of whistling in the dark...

Skippy...

In regional flying btw, they really need to make money in Economy as business class travel is traditionally weaker, hence the way Virgin out of GLA is shall we say, not cheap.

You must (at least try) and understand that high spending customers whom the airlines need to make these sort of routes work

[skyman771]

Can't understand all the hassle re the UA fares pricing. Max return on direct flights is £994 in July & go down to £716 for later August departures. Obviously if your flight involves one of two week days that UA doesn't fly direct then you pay a lot more.
As I noted in an earlier post then deals offered in June were much more competitive with rock bottom prices.
What most seem to miss is that when discussing options AF/KL/BA then in reality the majority of these "state side" bound pax end destination is not actually NYC but any of 20 plus other major US cities.
Take this into account and then NCL-NYC direct is actually no big deal and thus more journey's than not involve a second flight, so what actually IS the attraction of NYC to the majority of Pax.?
Personally I do an average of 2 US round trips a year and use predominantly AF with occasional BA. What's the difference ? well quite a bit , fundamentally there is more choice. A limited non daily offering over a short (5 month) time frame, is not good. I already belong to 2 FF programs & there is a premium seating option so always have the option of avoiding 3-3 seating.
As to marketing, then I personally don't believe that a lot of UA's target market take the service seriously & don't actually see it as anything other than another summer IT destination.
Finally perhaps the main reason for the "observed" low load factors is actually that it actually takes more than 6 months lead time to to attract bookings & that by the time many were aware of the availabilty of the service, then they were otherwise committed.

[Centre cities]

As a regular on the BHX forum I am used to doom and gloom. It seems to have been catching on this thread.

It is premature to sound the doom and gloom siren about the hard earned New York route. I hope that it returns next summer and develops to a year round service. Seat maps are not always an accurate gauge of load factors and yields.

Centre cities

[LiamNCL]

If you look into August there is some good loads , i dont know why its so poor atm , Maybe more people are wanting to head east instead of west ?

[HH6702]

There is some VAILD points been said

Yes people that will travel regularly to the USA many already have points with BA and KLM etc and it will take time to get those people to transfer.

Also 6 months notice of the route may not be long enough as people may have already booked there flights.

I have been looking at the seat plans for Glasgow also and last week they had a bad week also with loads around 60% and they are normally around mid 80%

Think we need to give this route a chance and like what's been said we don't know what the break even is and we never will

Also the business class is starting to fill up so people are transferring hopefully from BA,KLM it's just taking time

[HH6702]

Going back to a post around a week ago about NCL getting new low cost airlines to operate

I think there is room at NCL for certain airlines without upsetting the likes of jet2 and easyjet.


I DO Believe that WIZZ could be good for NCL.
they could make a few of there routes work and also wouldn't upset the others as they don't operate to them
I.e Warsaw

I would also say there is room for VUELING to come in on the Barcelona or let's try Madrid.
They offer onward connections to other parts of Spain which aren't covered by other airlines from ncl and 2/3 x weekly flights could work.
I couldn't really see Easyjet getting upset however it may get them to add extra flights..


The only airline i wouldn't want in would be Ryanair as once funds have gone they to will be gone

[Jamesair]

I would like to see EZY give Berlin another go. It has become a much more popular destination since their last attempt.

[Skipness One Echo]

Had a good look, haven't spotted a fact in a while - just plenty of whistling in the dark...

Skippy...

Quote:
In regional flying btw, they really need to make money in Economy as business class travel is traditionally weaker, hence the way Virgin out of GLA is shall we say, not cheap.
Quote:
You must (at least try) and understand that high spending customers whom the airlines need to make these sort of routes work
OKaaaaay let me be clear(er).
In regional flying, economy needs to be priced higher as there are fewer "more money than sense types" (my bad) up front flying to New York, cross subsidising us plebs down the back. Hence LON-NYC has some remarkably cheap fares down the back. However a higher economy fare is usually not enough in itself and UA needs to attract sufficient numbers up front to get the numbers over the line. When BA flew GLA-JFK they used to fill the back but were only 1 or 2 short of having enough customers up front to make the route work. Quite literally less than one handful of people in the right seats was all that stood between the axe and going forward.
Hence the (by then) seasonal operation was axed and the asset re-deployed, times change and perhaps the analogy is no longer as valid, I could be wrong. I hope I am, genuinely.

Hope that's a little cleaerer.

[SWBKCB]

One point that nobodies mentioned when discussing UA prices is the EWR hub element - looking at Flightstats, the next three UA departures from EWR are Syracuse, Fort Lauderdale and Dayton.

Why the assumption that everyone's stopping at NYC?

[CabinCrewe]

I don't think that there is any presumption. We're all aware of the connection opportunities, some banded about figures for EDI and GLA were that 30% via EWR were connecting with Florida destinations being amongst the highest. I'm not sure how that helps the perceived moderate at best loads thus far ex NCL

[skyman771]

I feel that UA have fallen far short in their marketing, not that it was ever to be an easy task, EK were much more slick, in that it was much easier to bring NCL within their national advertising campaigns with one destination (& expanding hub) similar aircraft offered nationally (at least pre A380) & a daily year round service, irrespective whether MAN/GLA/BHX etc i.e a more or less homogeneous product providing greater accessibility for onward travel.
Then there is the other problem that one can not under estimate FF programs & customer loyalty. Most people I deal with wouldn't have a clue as to what aircraft they are to fly on but are acutely aware of the airline so UA probably don't score too low on the 757.
What they possibly may find is that historically UA was never a code share that was ever much use to get to NCL when considering booking engines, ironically it was not such a problem to get to DTV when BMI flew DTV-LHR .
I sometimes wonder that if AA had taken on the route this year instead would they have been able to generate more pax traffic with their BA alliance.

[Jamesair]

Another thing to consider. United are to switch currently operated Transatlantic flights from 757 aircraft to 767's, moving the 757's to domestic routes.

[HH6702]

767 will be better for cargo and the offer onboard?

[jensdad]

More seats to fill, though. If they can't fill a 757...
And on the subject of cargo - one reason the Emirates route will work well for cargo is because shippers know that 365 days a year, there is a flight leaving NCL for DXB. The seasonal nature of the EWR route must be a handicap.
Sorry to add to the negativity, but if most of what is being said on here is true, it doesn't look too good for this route coming back next year.

[GrahamK]

Has it been confirmed yet that FlyBe are dropping BHD and STN?

The UA 767s are replacing 757s on the longer Euro runs where there is sometimes an unscheduled fuel stop due to headwinds. ARN and OSL are being reduced to summer only

[HH6702]

Why are ARN OSL being reduced is this due to others on route are just they make no money on the routes during winter months?

[HeartyMeatballs]

99.99% of people will not be put off by the fact it is a 757. Sticking a 767 on the route isn't going to magically attract more people.

[Ian Brooks]

And to add to last the B767 are getting very long in the tooth

Ian

[HH6702]

No flights from start of Winter timetable to BHD or STN

are both of these routes dropped

[GrahamK]

To counter the recent negativty, BMI have went back to the E145 on the BRU flights, and KLM have seeemingl planned 4 x mainline and 1 x cityhopper for the remainder of the summer

[CabinCrewe]

oooft a BMI 145, now that really is setting the heather alight.... ;)

[Jamesair]

The increase in a/c size, I expect is a result of the increasing pax numbers on AMS and BRU each month, which is encouraging to see.

we might even see the 3 x daily frequency on Bru expand from two days a week from next summer and wouldn't be surprised to see 6 x daily on AMS next year.

CDG seems to have ever increasing pax numbers too.

[Falcon900LX]

I like to hear good news from the local, in other news a friend tells me that he knows a guy who knows a guy that knows a dogs litters' owner, says that DTV is going to be bought out to be a racing circuit, god knows if there's any truth in that.

Surely if DTV does go plop then the AMS flights would increase?

[N707ZS]

Dorris and her NIMBYs wouldn't like that if it was true, other big problem is the area is overrun with racing circuits.

[LiamNCL]

Thomas Cook changes to Summer Schedule due to the drop of Enfidha

MON
TCX6006/7 NCL-ACE-NCL

WED FROM 22/7
TCX6014/5 NCL-BOJ-NCL

SUN FROM 19/7
TCX6138/9 NCL-REU-NCL (A321 Replaces A320)

[BAladdy]

Just been on UA's website and see that BHX, BFS, EDI, GLA, MAN & LGW to EWR flights are now available to book through until first week of June 2016. A error message appears when you search for NCL saying please contact customer services. I am sure the EWR started mid or late May this year. Wonder if they are moving the date they start the route next year until later in the summer, maybe mid June.

[HH6702]

Looks like TCX plans to keep the Monday ACE

TCX to now operate NCL-ACE 3x weekly for summer 2016
Mon, thur and Sunday

[SWBKCB]

Don't think there has been any announcement yet about 2016 for EWR - thought it had only been confirmed for 2015 so far.

[LiamNCL]

UA to EWR is still in a trial period , If it is to be back next summer i think it will be available later

I very much doubt Enfidha will be back next summer , the ACE flight on a monday sort of backs that up

[N707ZS]

You might see an increase in what used to be the old Yugoslavia resorts Pula, Split and Dubrovnik. Shame for the enthusiasts no more JAT DC9s or Tu-134s.!!

[HH6702]

I don't think we will see UA on sale until September when the route finishes.
They will be having a meeting with airport, airline and 1 north east and work out the profit (if any) has been made and what the plan for going forward is.
Hopefully they can use the development fund to help it come back next year.

I remember a statement months ago saying they were happy with the forward sales and the bookings made to date. Hopefully this is the case and the expected loading for year 1 are around 60-65%. At the time most flights were lucky to be above 20%

Remember the UK has seen extra flights to EDI, BHX AND MAN from the USA this summer. Some of the Manchester routes are barely hitting 70%!!

It's going to be a waiting game but hopefully it will be back even if it's just starts mid June..

Also they may be happy with loads of around 60% if they haven't had to discount the fares down. Remember the fares have been kept high so maybe United said if they drop the price the loads have to hit a higher figure so the airport and United agreed to keep the price high?

[GrahamK]

Heathrow: 42783 +5%
Stansted 4046
Aberdeen 1994 -26%
Belfast City 2976 +32%
Belfast Int N/A
Bristol N/A
Southampton 9461 +5% (Surprised about this given the schedule changes)

Brussels 2743 +21%
Copenhagen 2066 +8%
Paris CDG 13339 Flat
Dusseldorf 3325 +6%
Dublin 14608 +13%
Rome 2240 -9%
Amsterdam 30757 -2%
Barcelona 6388 -3%
Stavanger 1177 -35%
Geneva 4017
Prague 2391 +3%
Krakow 2487 +1%
Dubai 16460 +12% (average 274 per flight - 64% loads)
Newark 4099 (average 93 pax per flight - 55% loads).
Sanford 2302 +1%
Cancun 2299 +15%

[gavinhicks]

anyone know if flybe are ending stansted and belfast routes from the end of october

[HH6702]

Flybe

I would be very surprise if these routes were dropped
Maybe still waiting for timetable to be finalised ?

[VentureGo]

I see although inbound aircraft landed as UA160 this morning at 0708, the return leg was initially showing as delayed, but has since been cancelled. Can anyone advise has this aircraft gone tech after landing at NCL.

[VentureGo]

The aircraft [N48127] for this cancelled flight this morning is now planned to operate UA71 AMS to EWR tomorrow (although incoming to AMS (UA70) is still planned leaving EWR tonight at 17.55 EDT on N13113. N13113 is not showing rtn leg to EWR but next schedule is EWR to MCO (Orlando) at 12.45 Tomorrow Eastern Daylight Time (EDT) which it would be positioned for after return from AMS.
Is it therefore likely to be a) cancelled off EWR-AMS, b) Return as duplicate with overflow AMS - EWR passengers or c) Return to EWR empty.

source of flights/ aircraft: Flightradar24

[Jamie2k9]

The aircraft on ground in NCL (tech) will operate tomorrow's scheduled 09.10 to EWR

Tomorrow mornings arrival aircraft will operate today's EWR flight at 10.00 but has been delayed until 18.00 for crewing reasons.

[VentureGo]

Is FR24 incorrect then (Check aircraft reg. and then flight plan for next couple of days) N48127 (this morning's a/c which has gone tech) has only recently been switched to show departure out of AMS tomorrow as UA71.

Just enter N48127 in search box on FR24 and info will appear. As with other searhes.

What is your source that indicates it leaving NCL and tomorrows Inbound delayed?

[Jamie2k9]

United website contains all the correct details, as for checking FR24 they most likely relay all information form United website which probably took ops time to confirm exact details.

[GrahamK]

The flights are all really busy this weekend too...not a good start to the holidays for some.

[nclops]

What Jamie said is correct. N48127 went tech in NCL this morning. It is now serviceable and will operate the UA159 in the morning. The A/C that arrives on UA160 (which is operating on time as far as I'm aware) will hang around until 1800 when it will depart as UA2099 with the crew and the remainder of the passengers from today's UA159.

[Sam Chipperfield]

Has anyone noticed on the Wikipedia Page it says Qatar to Start from February to Doha, Could be just Bull though

[VentureGo]

N48127 went tech in NCL this morning. It is now serviceable and will operate the UA159 in the morning. The A/C that arrives on UA160 (which is operating on time as far as I'm aware) will hang around until 1800 when it will depart as UA2099 with the crew and the remainder of the passengers from today's UA159.This has now departed NCL this evening, but is heading first to Shannon, where N67134 went Tech this morning after arriving as UA25. Return to EWR (UA24 showing as cancelled) so I guess N29124 is operating NCL-SNN-EWR following its arrival into NCL this morning as UA160.

Are United's 757 fleet very unreliable?

Edit: At 19:11 N29124 is approaching Shannon with Flight No. UA26 showing (Normally, this is the flight no. for BHX-EWR)

Edit 2 : Showing as departure on Shannon's Departure board as UA2099 to EWR departure time 20:00 - Dparted at 20:20

[CabinCrewe]

Could be just Bull though
I think we all know it is...

[LiamNCL]

The middle east market is sewn up by Emirates , no way would Qatar come here now.

Mind you , The full page about the city of Newcastle and their picture header of the bridges across the Tyne on the Qatar website is a good touch

[Jamesair]

The United fleet of 757's are the old Continental a/c and are getting a bit long in the tooth and seem to have become very unreliable recently. It is time they were replaced with newer metal.

[Skipness One Echo]

Careful what you wish for, if they stay with more B788s then regional UK flying will be downsized, the B737MAX is also not ideal. The reason there's been an upsurge in B757s to the US is they're fully depreciated assets working hard at the end of their lives. Not sure BFS/NCL would see much ROI on a new capital intensive fleet of shiny Boeings.

Given Qatar and Etihad are killing each other over scraps in EDI while Emirates remains with the spoils at GLA, I think this might be er.....wrong.

[Falcon900LX]

There have always been rumours of another Eastern carrier to NCL, given my opinion though, I think a bit more Eastern wouldn't hurt the Northern market - By that I mean Air India and no I'm not joking.

[SWBKCB]

if you're not joking, what are your grounds for thinking Air India would be interested?

[VickersVicount]

Air India? This is just getting daft. The only East bound I could see in the future might be TK. Look at other long hauls ex NCL thus far, UA not off to a great start and EK the lowest carrying UK route to DXB with patchy load factors year round. AI are basket cases but surely theyre not that loopey.

[pallan]

Agree completely with what VickersVicount says. Thought the dreamers/'unrealists' had gone but it seems not.

AI aren't even at MAN and from what I hear, aren't doing amazing at BHX so why they would even consider NCL is beyond me :ugh:

Think people need to face up to the fact that NCL is no MAN/BHX/GLA. We're a decent size airport with a relatively good range of carriers offering lots of connections but I can't ever see the need for QR, EY, AI etc. TK maybe but anything else would just be overkill.

And going West, well hopefully UA will keep EWR next summer but in today's market, airlines don't have the money/aircraft/time to just give routes another chance.

[Falcon900LX]

The three of you have totally disregarded a vital word in my statement, I said in my opinion.

Thought the dreamers/'unrealists' had gone but it seems not.
As for that dig, I am not an 'unrealist' as you put it.
I have an opinion and you are obviously entitled to yours but being called an dreamer/'unrealist' is insulting, have I called you any names no...

This was started by someone changing the wiki entry, I'm just giving my 2c.
I'm not saying a route is going to start, nor am I trying to justify such a route, however in my spotting community there's always been rumours and always will be, you guys need to deal with it and get off your pedestals.

Think people need to face up to the fact that NCL is no MAN/BHX/GLA I clearly understand the financial implications of starting new routes and the airlines are not attracted to NCL, I work in the airline industry. I understand that NCL has 40 movements a day whereas the likes of MAN has over 200.

Peace.

[HH6702]

Hi

Air India good one but we are dreaming !!!

However think back that someone has updated the page late last year and put down United and delta to New York and AA to Washington and we all slated the group again that New York would never happen?

Is there a way to tell who has updated the page?

Could this person have some inside info like the United news?

[AerRyan]

Or they could be simply trolling.

[CabinCrewe]

if you put 4 guesses down one of them is eventually bound to be right. Had it been a single comment on the correct operator I might have considered it semi genuine...

[Jamesair]

Belfast City for Winter 15/16 is now showing in the Flybe timetable

[GrahamK]

Jamesair,

4 x weekly seems to be a pretty pathetic schedule though, especially as EZY have decreased their offering too I believe...how can

[HeartyMeatballs]

What's the BFS schedule like now?

It could be going the way of the BRS route. Admittedly I use it less now due to the schedule but the flights I do go on are usually extremely busy. Gone are the days when I'd get on a half empty flight, particularly on the morning flights. Between U2 and BE reducing their offering it certainly suggests overcapacity in the market. I remember the day when there were half a dozen flights s day between the two operators.

[SWBKCB]

Devolving air levy to North East could blow £45m hole in council finances - Chronicle Live (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/devolving-air-levy-north-east-9725217)

[Jamesair]

Graham,

I agree but I suppose they are trying to link capacity to demand on the routes. Now we have to wait to see if the STN route appears in the timetable again

[Suzeman]

I clearly understand the financial implications of starting new routes and the airlines are not attracted to NCL, I work in the airline industry.

I understand that NCL has 40 movements a day whereas the likes of MAN has over 200.

Err - lets look at the CAA statistics for May 2015.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data/201505/Table_02_2_Summary_Of_Activity_at_UK_Airports.pdf

NCL had 3963 air transport movements in May, an average of 128 per day

MAN had 14776 air transport movements in May, an average of 477 per day

As you work in the airline industry, let's hope that your job doesn't depend on making inaccurate assumptions... At least I suppose you were right in the statement that Manchester has over 200.....:rolleyes:

[Falcon900LX]

NCL had 3963 air transport movements in May, an average of 128 per day

MAN had 14776 air transport movements in May, an average of 477 per day

Sorry I didn't have the statistics on hand at the time of posting and I was CLEARLY exaggerating.

[owenc]

Another thing to consider. United are to switch currently operated Transatlantic flights from 757 aircraft to 767's, moving the 757's to domestic routes.

No the 757's are staying for UK and Ireland.

They get great returns from airports like Dublin and Manchester.

[owenc]

Careful what you wish for, if they stay with more B788s then regional UK flying will be downsized, the B737MAX is also not ideal. The reason there's been an upsurge in B757s to the US is they're fully depreciated assets working hard at the end of their lives. Not sure BFS/NCL would see much ROI on a new capital intensive fleet of shiny Boeings.

Given Qatar and Etihad are killing each other over scraps in EDI while Emirates remains with the spoils at GLA, I think this might be er.....wrong.

What are you talking about? Currently Belfast is doing well, about 85% load factor. Often 100%.

[VickersVicount]

What are you talking about? Currently Belfast is doing well, about 85% load factor. Often 100%.
at peak summer youd expect so. Remind of the frequency, loads and profits mid winter?

[toon22]

85% loads on Belfast would put it approx. 6% behind the EZY network average, so no good news there. Helped by the very short sector length though.

[nclops]

Although I think they are talking about United, not EZY!

[nclpilot]

So what loads have United achieved at NCL this summer? Intrigued to see if they run it next year.

[HH6702]

Loads are getting better for the last week or so nearly full...

However it was a slow start but you can't expect business people to swap from BA and there points to our route just for a summer season....


Still hope it will return however I'm guessing the loads are currently around 60% for the whole season.

Up the front is selling now so fingers crossed it will return.
Doubt we will find out till mid September

[CabinCrewe]

Loads are getting better for the last week or so nearly full...

However it was a slow start but you can't expect business people to swap from BA and there points to our route just for a summer season....


Still hope it will return however I'm guessing the loads are currently around 60% for the whole season.

Up the front is selling now so fingers crossed it will return.
Doubt we will find out till mid September
Would be very surprised if its canned after just one short season even with these 'moderate' loads.

[HH6702]

I would be surprised too.

A route like this take years to build up.
Look at Emirates !!

[ATNotts]

I would be surprised too.

A route like this take years to build up.
Look at Emirates !!

Hopefully you are correct, but consider US Airways PHL-BHX summer offering a few years ago. Failed to perform in the first season, and never seen again.

There's a big difference between Emirates and United. The latter has greedy, impatient institutional and private shareholders, who view 6 months rather than 5 years as long term; Emirates has no such problems - just some Sheiks and Emirs to keep happy.

[HH6702]

BHX has other links and airlines to the USA as NCL don't.

Maybe United would rather keep a small presence at NCL rather than nothing which in a few years time another airline tries again

As long as United keeps the 757 that is

[LiamNCL]

Tomorrows UA159/160 Cancelled

[HH6702]

United aren't having much luck with this route :(

[EK77WNCL]

Why's it cancelled? What's the plan for the pax?

You'd have thought United might have at least put themselves out a bit to impress with this new route, 3 cancellations already can't be good for PR.They must have a spare aircraft with transatlantic range, or some kind of contingency plans like an agreement with another airline, even send an ETOPS 737 via Keflavik!!! Better than nothing

[A350Saltire]

UAs 757s aren't the most reliable machines at the moment - I believe one of today's 3 UA 757s went tech at a EDI too.

[SWBKCB]

even send an ETOPS 737 via Keflavik!!! Better than nothing

Good grief....

ETOPS 737? The one's based in the Pacific? Alternative re-route via one of the many daily UA flights from Europe to EWR.

[nighthawk117]

even send an ETOPS 737 via Keflavik!!! Better than nothing
Domestic and international crews are on different contracts. There would be an uproar if they used a domestic crew to operate an international flight. United is having enough union issues as it is.

[EK77WNCL]

That was a kind of tongue in cheek comment, but what happened with the cancelled flight?

[LiamNCL]

For all the 757 folk , Privilege Style 757 EC-HDS Just positioned in from Madrid under a TOM callsign , Nothing delayed i can see so not sure why its up for

[SWBKCB]

Reportedly crew shortage

[ash666]

As a brief diversion from all things USA, I have a question about AMS which isn't really off-topic as a lot of NCL people either go there or transfer through it.
My question is about my return trip BKK-AMS-NCL.
Obviously at BKK you have to go through the normal security to get airside and onto the plane.
So how come at AMS when you remain airside to transit straight through to NCL do you have to go through more security (x-rays etc) as soon as you get off the plane before you can even get into the terminal building??
Do they not trust any other airport's security?

[Cian]

As a brief diversion from all things USA, I have a question about AMS which isn't really off-topic as a lot of NCL people either go there or transfer through it.
My question is about my return trip BKK-AMS-NCL.
Obviously at BKK you have to go through the normal security to get airside and onto the plane.
So how come at AMS when you remain airside to transit straight through to NCL do you have to go through more security (x-rays etc) as soon as you get off the plane before you can even get into the terminal building??
Do they not trust any other airport's security?

AMS has no central security screening - all pax go through that as their first / only security screen in AMS.

[ash666]

It does seem an odd place to have a set of xrays when you have only just been through them at BKK (or anywhere else for that matter) and just got off the plane.
On the way out I don't recall getting off the NCL flight and having the same at AMS.

Or maybe it is my bad memory, still trying to get over the check-in etc shambles that is NCL (don't blame the messenger).

[VentureGo]

Transitting back from International flights via Heathrow to NCL you have to go through security again (albeit, after clearing immigration) although you remain airside, having been fully security processed at the departure airport (in my case recently on seperate occasions, Nice, Paris and Miami).
Duty free items bought abroad (liquids etc... which are over the 100ml plastic resealable bag rule) must be sealed by the Duty Free Shop at foreign departure airport, and remain sealed through the security / x-ray process at Heathrow)
NCL to Rest of World via LHR, From your Arrival gate. proceed through Flight Connections, having only your Boarding Card checked for validity, and then enter directly into the Departure Lounge/Gate area without going through Security scanning etc...

[Jamesair]

NCL -STN, Winter 15/16 is now on the Flybe timetable at 8 flts wkly.

[fl dutchman]

VentureGo
Your correct, outbound from NCL if you transfer T5 to T5 you only have to show your boarding card at LHR. However if your transfer is from T5 arrival to T3 or T4 departure you have to go through the flight connections and a security search.

[ash666]

There must be some logic there somewhere but I can't see it.

So... back to NCL.

I still think anyone who pays many hundreds of £££ for business class for a 1 hour flight to AMS is either completely nuts or so rich that the value of money has become meaningless.
But when I checked in online 30 hours in advance (ie as soon as poss) for my economy flight I was offered a very cheap upgrade which, for 1 reason or another, I took.
One of the advantages is to avoid the queue and use the Priority check-in counter.
On arrival at NCL there was no-one manning the Priority desk so it was everyone in the economy queue. Not a good start.
When I got to the desk the girl didn't seem to have a clue how to transfer my bag straight through AMS and onto BKK even though it was all KLM. She tried for quite a while before asking for help then pulling all sorts of scrap paper out her pockets looking for something before eventually announcing she had done it.
I know I was on 2 separate tickets but it's obviously not even a slightly tricky operation as on the return the girl at BKK did it in seconds.
Then it appears that the left hand doesn't let the right hand know what is going on and on the plane the stewardess said that they hadn't been told about anyone who upgraded so there weren't enough business class meals.
They also seemed to have quite a few people in the seats with different names to the ones on her list.

Is it just me being a moaner again? No. On that trip I used NCL, AMS, BKK, HAN, DAD and KKC (great airport, none of this taking your laptop out your carry on bag).
The only one I had issues with was NCL.

Mind, the new lounge is a big improvement on the old one.

[mockingjay]

I can only assume that removing electronics must be dependant on country. NCL insist on it, as do BRS, EDI, CDG, SOU and AGP. I'm struggling to remember a place that doesn't insist on it.

[SWBKCB]

Your issues at NCL though were with the airline and their agent, not the airport.

[ash666]

Yes, sort of. It is still NCL that is the face of it and I never seem to get these issues anywhere else.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

I'm sitting here with a United Purser of so much seniority, he started with Pan Am and has been with United since Pan Am went to the pearly gates of FL410.

His comment is, the lowest value route will always cancel the first, then the nearest distance to base, then the easiest to reassign passengers.

Take from that what you will.

EK77WNCL, in response to your comment about an ETOPS 737, his sardonic comment was "Sure honey, you want us to whip out a 737 and crew from our ass, have it all ship shape and ready to fly across to Europe where it and the crew have never been before and where there'll be no one to fly it back and where there's 20 seats less just by clickin' our red shoes and wishing it to happen...uh huh.....?" :hmm:

[EK77WNCL]

... Failing that I'm surprised they didn't go for the customary US legacy approach nowadays and send over 3/4 third party regional jets.

Joking aside I respect that guy's seniority and enjoy his wit and sarcasm, I know it's not viable to send over a 737 and I know NCL is going to be way down on their list. I don't agree with that however because if they think the route is going to be pretty marginal then SURELY they're going to want to at least try and make some effort to impress potentially high paying customers. 3 cancellations already for a x5 weekly summer only operation (and we aren't done yet!) how many times has EK been cancelled?

[CentreFix25]

If there was a sacrifice to be made and a UK 757 had to be cancelled - I'd have chose the NCL flight.

The other UK flights are established and will contain regular and loyal customers. The NCL service won't, as it's not guaranteed past this season, and hasn't really had long enough to create that base.

The conundrum is... do you try to impress a potential new customer or upset an existing one.

I know which I'd choose.

[GrahamK]

To be fair, EDI and MAN have both had their fair share of cancellations due to aircraft going tech as well, it's not just a NCL thing.

[LAX_LHR]

UA has cancelled flights to MAN/EDI/BHX/GLA/NCL/SNN and DUB in the past few weeks.

Both UA and AA have had atrocious OTP issues this summer, so it's certainly not just a UA at NCL issue.

[LiamNCL]

I dont think its just us who gets cancelled flights from UA though

[A350Saltire]

Its definitely not just NCL. The UA 757s have atrocious reliability issues. Several flights have been cancelled at EDI over the last week or so.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Notwithstanding the politics that preclude it (short haul crew operating long haul routes etc) I didn't think the 737 via KEF suggestion was that pie in the sky. Globespan operated many a NYC rotation from the UK with a 737.

[Una Due Tfc]

Because the KEF routing is non ETOPS AFAIK. There's the Faroes, KEF, SFJ and a couple of others in Greenland all close enought that non ETOPS aircraft can use it.

Etops costs money. Must carry more fuel, same engineer can't check/work on the same system on both engines, I think the pilots might need an extra legal endorsement too?

The rule for non ETOPS is you cannot be more than 60 mins (roughly 400nm for most jets) from an airfield, so it can be done non ETOPS, it just makes it longer than say NCL-YQX-EWR.

[SWBKCB]

Globespan operated many a NYC rotation from the UK with a 737.

And that ended well.

Can we stop now? that joke isn't funny anymore.

[GrahamK]

Small capacity increase with KLM to AMS this winter, all 4 flights operated by KLM 737s. Last winter was 3 x 737s and 1 x E190/F70.

[VentureGo]

United restores year-round service between Belfast and Newark (http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2015/08/03/united-belfast-newark/31058287/)

United have announced Belfast are going to year-round service (BFS-EWR) from next year

No sign or mention of Newcastle (either Summer only or extended timetable from x5 weekly)

[LiamNCL]

United restores year-round service between Belfast and Newark (http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2015/08/03/united-belfast-newark/31058287/)

United have announced Belfast are going to year-round service (BFS-EWR) from next year

No sign or mention of Newcastle (either Summer only or extended timetable from x5 weekly)

I dont think you will hear anything about it until the trials finished

[Heathrow Harry]

Air canada operate a 738 twice a week LGW - Halifax (nova Scotia - not Yorks) I think

operated from LHR last year

maybe summer only

[CabinCrewe]

AC dont have 738s (currently)

[GrahamK]

HH,

That's Air Transat, 2 x weekly LGW-YHZ 738. Operated with an A310 last year I believe.

WestJet have a daily 73G YYZ-YHZ-GLA flight this summer

[toon22]

Winter ops down to 1 daily D328 operated by Loganair.
Retained just to keep MAG happy?

[NickBarnes]

Not a D328, flybe's website shows a seating plan that matches a emb -145

Would suggest a BMI reigional to operate it

[GrahamK]

Newcastle (NCL) to London (STN)
Flybe 6881 operated by Loganair
Economy / Coach (Q)
Embraer RJ145

First stage of the BM/LC co-operation??

[SWBKCB]

That was quick! What are the times, could it be done by the based BRU a/c?

[GrahamK]

It fits perfectly in between the BRU flights, which are down to 12 x weekly again

[EK77WNCL]

I still think LCY could do a lot better from NCL, but they'd have to base a Dash here

A well timed 2/3 times daily LCY flight could probably operate happily alongside a daily midday STN flight, I doubt the STN flights currently serve many London bound passengers at all - especially not business travellers

[nclpilot]

EWR-NCL and NCL-EWR cancelled again today....

[ash666]

Good grief, they are worse than TCX's infamous 757 and that is saying something.
It gives the impression that NCL is not high up on their priorities :(

[LiamNCL]

Im sorry but this service is turning into a joke !

Not sure i would fancy crossing the atlantic on one of these sheds.

[GrahamK]

How many cancellations is that now, 5 or 6? Similar to what EDI has had to be fair. Pax will most likely be rerouted via AMS, LHR or CDG, or booked onto tomorrows flight (if it operates).

[Skipness One Echo]

A well timed 2/3 times daily LCY flight could probably operate happily alongside a daily midday STN flight
There's a practical limitation here. To be useful for business there needs to be a thrice (min. twice) daily service in peak time slots out of LCY. When last tried it was T3 on a J41 which became (more) loss making when the introductory discount offers lapsed and GIP upped the charging regime to put small props at a disadvantage. This pushed the throughput up as BA CityFlyer introduced the Embraers and the volume of F50s and ATRs dropped as a result.

Now flybe are on board, it might be worth re-visiting as if they can't do it, no-one can IMHO.

[oldart]

Today's canceled UAL was only showing a total of six seats booked, was that the cause or aircraft maintenance as shown on flight stats? I think the run up to Christmas should show more bookings, if not I can see the service being withdrawn.

[Travel Agent]

It only operates until 7th September so unless there are some really early Xmas shoppers it won't make much difference ;)

[nclpilot]

Where do you see seats sold?

[HH6702]

Where did you get 6 seats from ??

On the 4th August the seat plans showed 101/169 seats sold so that's 60%!

[LiamNCL]

Today's canceled UAL was only showing a total of six seats booked, was that the cause or aircraft maintenance as shown on flight stats? I think the run up to Christmas should show more bookings, if not I can see the service being withdrawn.

What you were seeing was a live seatplan for a service that had been cancelled , The United site will still show the seat plan for some time after the cancellation , Due to people moving onto other flights their seat on the cancelled flight becomes available again as they are now on a different flight. The 6 you seen as 'Sold' would of been 6 people yet to change onto another service .

RE: Skiathos

What restrictions does Skiathos place on A321s in wet conditions ? Todays TCX flight along with a STN flight diverted to Kavala then onto Thessaloniki before positioning back to NCL empty and leaving returning PAX down in JSI even though some 757s were heading in still

[oldart]

Thanks for the update LIAMNCL, I thought it was a bit strange, UAL seem to have had a few aircraft with faults this week.

[LiamNCL]

Thanks for the update LIAMNCL, I thought it was a bit strange, UAL seem to have had a few aircraft with faults this week.

Yeah once the flights cancelled it will always show as a empty seat plan for that flight no matter what destination

[chris1001]

Don't get on here much but thought I would have my say...

Having recently flown from Liverpool and Leeds airports I have to say how proud I am of Newcastle. Nice modern, spacious terminal building with direct rail link, good selection of shops and places to eat. Love the new glitzy tiles in the duty free!

Good selection of routes too maybe lacking Munich and Milan 3 times weekly. Perfect year round opportunities for easyJet or Jet2. Just hope all the doom mongers on here are wrong and United are here to stay with sensible economy fare structure, say £450-£500 return.

I found both Liverpool and Leeds to be grotty, far too small and out to rip you off with charges for trolleys (Leeds), crazy high parking charges,(Liverpool) and cold, dirty, bus shelter type walkways to aircraft as opposed to Newcastle's impressive pier and Aspire Lounge. Well done to the team at Newcastle. Even my mate from Yorkshire commented how friendly the security team were with his kids. Just shows how one person can create a lasting impression on an airport that employs hundreds.

Oh and last wish would be for either Easy or Jet2 to give us an evening rotation to Malaga rather than flying minutes apart. That would create a bigger market. Can't understand why EZY dropped the Sunday rotation either on such a busy route, especially busy for break/golf/stag/hen weekend trips.

Keep up the great work!

[CabinCrewe]

not the black and 'crystal' glitzy tiles that were in every other airport duty free 10 years ago?

[highwideandugly]

flown through a number of airports. In recent months...I have agree. Newcastle in the top 3 !,

Excellent check in,superb air side facilities....however duty free tooooo close. To security???? No time to draw breath!

Staff brilliant and helpful...try. Lima,Rio,Saigon etc!!

Yes more local European flights needed...Munich,Frankfurt,Poland etc..

On the whole a great small region
NE airport...!

[nclpilot]

Flight aware is showing UA160/159 canx again!

[HeartyMeatballs]

The new terminal is looking great but it was a good airport even without the refresh. You only have to look at LBA or LTN to realise just how good it is.

Well UA is showing cancelled on the departure board. The service is not reliable enough for me to consider it wether it comes back next year or not. I'll stick with AFKLM.

[LiamNCL]

This is every other day now i doubt they will complete a week from now until service end

[VentureGo]

nclpilot wrote:
Flight aware is showing UA160/159 canx again!Liam wrote:
This is every other day now i doubt they will complete a week from now until service end Just checked on FR24 details of A/craft scheduled for todays cancelled flights to/from Newcastle for technical issues! -

Apparently the aircraft N19117 is showing as cancelled for Newcastle but is operating the Edinburgh service instead!!

Copied from FlightRadar 24 (Aircraft registration) below:
2015-08-09
UA54 New York (EWR) Paris (CDG) 21:10 EDT - 10:55 CEST Estimated departure. 21:20
2015-08-09
UA109 Edinburgh (EDI) New York (EWR) 12:05 BST - 14:40 EDT Estimated departure. 12:15
2015-08-09
UA159 Newcastle (NCL) New York (EWR) 09:10 BST - 12:00 EDT Canceled
2015-08-08
UA108 New York (EWR) Edinburgh (EDI) 21:55 EDT 23:56 09:45 BST Landed 10:39
2015-08-08
UA160 New York (EWR) Newcastle (NCL) 19:20 EDT - 07:30 BST Canceled
2015-08-08
UA1945 Houston (IAH) New York (EWR) 14:40 CDT 16:26 19:25 EDT Landed 20:20

[LiamNCL]

nclpilot wrote:
Liam wrote:
Just checked on FR24 details of A/craft scheduled for todays cancelled flights to/from Newcastle for technical issues! -

Apparently the aircraft N19117 is showing as cancelled for Newcastle but is operating the Edinburgh service instead!!

Copied from FlightRadar 24 (Aircraft registration) below:

The aircraft was good enough to leave a few hours later to EDI so why not just delay the service for a few hours

[CabinCrewe]

Perhaps there are far more J pax or connecting passengers ex EDI that are harder to reroute. I dont think theres some closet conspiracy against poor 'lil NCL, if that was what was being suggested.

[SWBKCB]

And assuming FR24 is correct. It's a decent tool but not infallible.

[crewmeal]

They probably decided that the Edinburgh Festival was more important and could fill a 757 at this time of the year rather than send one to NCL. No excuse but BA have been guilty in the past of cancelling LHR services so nothing new.

[oldart]

UAL flight stats showing 160 nearly full for Sunday/Monday flight. It looks like the service can sustain at least twice weekly rotation, weekend in New York maybe.

[160to4DME]

UAL flight stats showing 160 nearly full for Sunday/Monday flight. It looks like the service can sustain at least twice weekly rotation, weekend in New York maybe.

70-odd are displaced from last night.

[VentureGo]

Problem with today's United service. Landed in to NCL on time but departure to EWR dalayed by 2 hours. Estimating arrival at EWR 3 hours late?? (Flight time of 9 hours - usuallly 7hours+) No other flights across the pond seem to have an extra hour flying time - wonder if problem with delay, may require a scheduled stop on route?
Late arrival time of 15.17 local time is showing on Newarks arrivals page as well as FR24

Newark Airport Info. Page:
http://www.panynj.gov/airports/flight-status.html?view=&apt=EWR
Extracted:
Departure Information Airport:
Newcastle (NCL) Scheduled Time:9:10 AM, Aug 11 Left Gate Time:10:52 AM, Aug 11 Terminal-Gate:21
Arrival Information Airport:Newark, NJ (EWR) Scheduled Time:12:00 PM, Aug 11 Estimated Time:3:17 PM, Aug 11Terminal-Gate:Terminal C - C135

[nclops]

Had a tech problem which required a reroute to the flight plan and at a lower altitude.......or something along those lines anyway! The reroute and lower altitude probably contributed to the extra hour on the flight time!

[HH6702]

Airport website been updated with timetable

Nothing to add ready

[EK77WNCL]

Wouldn't expect anything finalised yet, most airlines haven't even got their summer 2016 brochures sorted yet (LS and TCX + their partner operators at least)

[LandingConfig]

Wouldn't expect anything finalised yet, most airlines haven't even got their summer 2016 brochures sorted yet (LS and TCX + their partner operators at least)

Charter and low cost airlines release their schedules much later than scheduled airlines.

[GrahamK]

Heathrow 45021 +9%
Stansted 4667
Aberdeen 1754 -36%
Belfast City 2722 -11%
Bristol 14759 -5%
Exeter 3488
Jersey 3304 +27%
Southampton 10053 +9%

Brussels 2583 +16%
Copenhagen 1690 +40%
Paris CDG 14482 -1%
Dusseldorf 3910 +10%
Dublin 16179 +7%
Amsterdam 33744 +1%
Stavanger 1498 -19%
Geneva 5417
Dubai 21067 +13%
Newark 3567
Sanfod 2875 +22%
Cancun 2609

[HH6702]

thanks for the update on the figures.

Dubai 21,000+ is this the first month we have seen 21,000 per month??
not far from the target of 24,000 per month to start thinking about a second daily flight??

New York

Worrying i make it 50.25% for the month
june i made it just short of 60%!!

August seems to be better around 60% outbound and 70% full inbound.

Im starting to think the worst for this route it just seems to high priced for it to work even looking at the late deals in the next few days its still a lot more than the rest of them....

Time will tell hope they come back

[HH6702]

So far then upto the end of July i make the figures as follows

8,917 passengers carried
16,393 passenger seats on sale

54.40% load so far

[CabinCrewe]

EWR half empty at the height of summer... mmm.

[LandingConfig]

EWR half empty at the height of summer... mmm.

It's been operating for a matter of months...

[Jamie2k9]

It's been operating for a matter of months...

That excuse won't wash with the bean counters. The only way it would stay is if the airline have real confidence in the route and such poor loads isn't going to help. UA will redeploy the 752 elsewhere. It's an easy target for cancellations as other routes would cost significantly more. They would likely make more money have the aircraft on standby for the whole summer than what it does going o NCL.

If it manages to survive all it will take is a spike in fuel prices to end it.

[LiamNCL]

If NYC does go , The airport should forget a direct NYC route, IMO a route like KEF with ICE would be a ideal to act as the gateway to America , Its already a few hours across the pond and it opens up Iceland , Somewhere completley different to any Destination served and a place that i can imagine would be fairly popular . I cant see Icelandair being a possible until they have the 737s though

[Jamie2k9]

If NYC does go , The airport should forget a direct NYC route, IMO a route like KEF with ICE would be a ideal to act as the gateway to America , Its already a few hours across the pond and it opens up Iceland , Somewhere completley different to any Destination served and a place that i can imagine would be fairly popular . I cant see Icelandair being a possible until they have the 737s though

WOW Air offer really cheap fares to the US which will be expanded.

[HH6702]

That's what I was thinking for the airline ?


I wonder if another American airline would try and come in where United left?
Delta maybe

Then in the winter months business pax can still collect and use the points via klm/delta via AMS?

[LiamNCL]

A route to Reykjavik is something i have mentioned before and its not out of reach or unrealistic , Perfect Transatlantic crossing point. Forgot about WOW actually

I would love to see United back regardless , Thing is there is more than a 757s worth of people from NCL catchment area who are traveling to the US everyday , Problem is only a fraction are actually using it , others are traveling

[GrahamK]

A lot of folk will be Skyteam members (KL/AF) or oneWorld (BA/AA). Star have such a puny presence at NCL that its not surprising if most folk are not using the direct service. How many flights were cancelled during July, 4 or 5? So you'd need to calculate on 3 weeks worth of flights operating. Still not good for the busiest month of the year though...

A 2nd weekly flight to Orlando is what is needed...

[SWBKCB]

If UA doesn't work, nobody will look at a proper NY service (i.e. not shopping) for years.

A second Orlando is a different issue/market.

[HH6702]

This would never happen however

Jet2 could transform one of there 757 into a 150/160 plane to offer a premium and standard offer and could fly to EWR 4x weekly in the summer and 3 weekly in the winter.

Using flight only and jet2 holidays it could work!

The prices they charge for the shopping trips is not far from what United are after for flight only !!!

[Charlie98]

The thing is with NCL, we haven't fully recovered from the economic crisis in the North East and people don't have allot of disposable income. If you look at Economy only for the United flights they are reasonable - We just don't have any prospect at all of filling the premium or premium economy.

From the loads we have had - United should drop the route. they have been dismal - 3x a week may be better suited to establish an airport like NCL.

I only hope they don't cut the route and give it some time to mature, as we all know an aircraft doesn't fill overnight.

Regarding Jet2H. On the surface it would be a good idea, but it would cost more in crewing (LS are short of 75 pilots) and stopovers. Furthermore it doesn't fit in very well with their business model or fleet - one could only imagine the claims from a technical delay on one of those flights. The age of the 75 doesn't help.

[jensdad]

- There is more than a 757s worth of people from NCL catchment area who are traveling to the US everyday , Problem is only a fraction are actually using it -

Unless you are travelling to NYC and no further, there are many equivalent options for getting to the USA from NCL. Just because the first leg from NCL goes direct to the USA, doesn't mean that the whole process of getting to , say, Chicago on UA is any easier than going with BA or KLM. In fact, the greater choice of connection options on for example BA with 6 or 7x NCL-LHR and 2x LHR-ORD (and sadly, United's pretty poor cancellation record) will make the other options preferable for many.

[VentureGo]

Flybe extend Newcastle to London Stansted service (http://ftnnews.com/aviation/28161-flybe-extend-newcastle-to-london-stansted-service.html)

Interesting, as Loganair don't have Embraer E-145 Jets in their fleet! - Could this be the bmi regional a/c?
Will this be in effect a reduction in capacity?

[NCL-TRC]

I believe it's the based BMI aircraft, operating this in between the two daily BRU flights, but defiantly a capacity reduction, going from twice daily on a Dash to daily on a smaller ER4 equals over 50% fewer seats. I'm surprised it's lasted this long, I flew the route last month and pretty much every passenger had a row to themselves.

[CabinCrewe]

it is the BMI aircraft. Was discussed previously

[Jamesair]

I noticed that this mornings United flight with 88 pax was operated by a 757 with a Business and Economy class only layout.

[ash666]

What happened to the post someone put up yesterday about the police taking someone off a plane???

Police pull over plane only moments from takeoff at Newcastle International Airport - Chronicle Live (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/police-pull-over-plane-only-9868268)

[LiamNCL]

I noticed that this mornings United flight with 88 pax was operated by a 757 with a Business and Economy class only layout.

Back to 3 class today and UA159 is nearly a sell out including Premium Economy , Still needs another year i think

[Jamesair]

I think this morning is the best so far to EWR with 166 .....2 Business and 1 economy left.

[HH6702]

The next week the flight has loads like this

[ash666]

Just been having lunch with someone whose daughter is doing work experience in the USA.

Her baggage allowance was 23kg but going for 3 months she turned up at NCL for the United flight with 26kg. The staff said up to 25kg would have been ok so could she take something out and put it in her hand luggage.
This she did and, much to her amazement, was told that her hand luggage was now too heavy (though within size) and she would have to pay $100 to put it in the hold and tough luck about anything fragile or valuable in it.
Weight wasn't even close to being an issue as there were only 60-odd people on the plane.

She had the chance to stay on another week or 2 but to change flights was going to cost the difference in a new flight ticket plus (ready for this one) £130 administration!!!! I think Which? magazine should be informed about that one after they have just said that £35 admin was exorbitant for a change of car insurance details.

So the new seat was going to incur a charge of around £1000 (really) plus the £130 admin.

She just bought a new flight with Thomsons from JFK to MAN for just over £200.

From what I've read and heard United don't deserve to make a success of any route, least of all the first-to-be-ditched NCL.

[malcolm380]

I find that hard to believe. I've flown with United, and Continental before them, for many years, almost exclusively trans-atlantic, and although the $200 charge to change dates is steep it's not outrageous, but I've never had to pay more to change the ticket itself, just a simple matter of changing the dates on-line. Maybe I've just been lucky?

[ash666]

The original return flight was around £700 and to change was £1400 (1 way!!!!!) minus the £350 already paid plus the £130 admin.

[yeo valley]

i have had to change the date of travel to the uk a few times,and never had any problems doing so, or being charged for the change.
can only think the person dealing with it was having a bad day.

[ash666]

Separate from that, I was watching BBC news on iPlayer and the local news after was the London version and their lead story was about the men taken off the plane at NCL for being "drunk and disorderly".
The opinion of the other passengers was along the lines of "oh no they weren't".

[EK77WNCL]

I don't think 55% load factors from one of the poorest areas of the country, which has higher than average fares on most flights and has only operated 5x weekly (sometimes) for less than 2.5 months (at the end of July) is THAT bad... Really... As you say whether it's enough to bring it back for 2016, I don't know, but I hope so.

What I would hope is that they take this year's figures as being a success (all things considered - the market they've entered) and try "properly" next year, x5 weekly or even daily March-October, serving the full summer season. If they can get up to or very near to 70% LF's then I'd hope they might go year round with maybe x4 weekly in winter. I just hope the disappointing reliability from this summer hasn't had a detrimental effect on customer loyalty.

This route was NEVER going to be a cash cow after a half hearted 4 month "summer" season, but there is nothing to say UA haven't made money on these flights, some were very expensive!

I know it's kind of unrelated but I feel that in the long run, if UA stick it out like EK did for 5+ years, that a LH connection to FRA could help boost loads as it could increase star presence and loyalty at NCL and make more people choose UA. I know it's difficult anyway because UA aren't at all the best transatlantic option and many simply won't pick them but... Every little helps. I'm sure they can make it worse but they might have to be prepared to wait a few years... Which unfortunately the US airlines can't/won't do and it's a real shame. I think we've all come to terms with the fact that Emirates do make money from Newcastle and I for one am VERY glad they didn't pull out on us.

Just hope we don't lose united, we probably wouldn't see them back until they get their hands on a 757MAX (never, so far). Delta... Forget it. American, maybe? Oneworld is a definite advantage but would they try it?

[VentureGo]

Just hope we don't lose united, we probably wouldn't see them back until they get their hands on a 757MAX (never, so far). Delta... Forget it. American, maybe? Oneworld is a definite advantage but would they try it?

Can't see Delta doing NCL as they pick up a lot via Skyteam partners Air France/KLM via AMS & CDG - (At some pretty good prices too!) The alliance would see a direct route eating into the regional feed into KLM & AF.

More so the case with American. They have a very cosy feed from the regions with BA on Oneworld (as is the case in favour of AA feeds in the US) - Also at Medium to High pricing, but often still lower than fares for UA direct from NCL this year

United was and probably is the best of a bad choice of US airlines feeding NCL direct, but prices would need to be a lot more competitive than this year, when compared to AF/KLM/DL, to acheive high volume loads.

[BAladdy]

I see that BE have decided to continue to operate STN on a weekday daily basis.

Flybe extend Newcastle to London Stansted service (http://ftnnews.com/aviation/28161-flybe-extend-newcastle-to-london-stansted-service.html)

Interestingly the article says it will be operated by BE's franchise partner Loganair. Using a ER4, I am guessing this aircraft is the one used to operate BM's BRU service.

BE6881 NCL 11:00 STN 12:15 ER4 x67
BE6882 STN 12:45 NCL 14:00 ER4 x67

[deltahotel9]

As reported numerous times in this thread already it's the based BM 145 which will operate the flight.

Yesterday's fiasco seems very odd, either lots of passengers are lying and the group really were drunk or FlyBe are hiding something. How can the captain decide it was unsafe to fly after offloading all the passengers because one was in the loo? Also why was another aircraft needed to operate the flight if there was nothing wrong with the original one? Answers on a postcard please!

[ash666]

Was the pilot tested for drink/drugs????

[HeartyMeatballs]

The replacement aircraft could due to the crew running out of FDP meaning a replacement had to be brought in to operate the sectors. Maybe a crew member did not feel fit to operate and being on a W pattern away from a base it is not easy to just replace one crew. I'm sure it'll be something along those lines.

[Jamesair]

EWR......all 169 seats filled today

[EK77WNCL]

VentureGo, yes they would have to be lower prices for higher volume loads, but maybe that's not what United are after? If they can charge premium fares, fill it 60% and make a comfortable profit they might not be bothered about 90+% load factors.

If they continue that and drop prices slowly, letting the aircraft start to fill on the premium prices first until they know they can fill it nicely then start offering discounts to (HOPEFULLY!!!) fill a daily year round flight... It could work out very nicely for them... That's what Emirates did, I remember when prices were routinely well over £500/600 return and now you can bag them for less than £350

I agree that UA is the best of a bad choice, DL and AA could probably be just as successful and still make money for themselves, but this is one of the slight downsides of the alliances, they can't make AS MUCH money as funneling a good amount of AF/KL's uk passengers onto DL transatlantic flights (or BA-AA as the case may be). UA know what they're doing, they have plenty of experience and those 757's are great (when they work) but some of their fares are too expensive for North East leisure travelers.

If we were to lose United (I don't think we will) I'd say Emirates, Thomas Cook or Jet2 would be our best options. Failing that, Icelandair to KEF with an Air Iceland Q400... We will see what happens after 7th September

[SWBKCB]

I'd say Emirates, Thomas Cook or Jet2 would be our best options

So nobody then... :E

Being serious, Jet2 and Thomas Cook can't offer the frequency/onward connections to be any good other than for leisure, and why would anybody give Emirates the rights?

Icelandair to KEF with an Air Iceland Q400

Given your comments on the ABZ thread, another one of your jokes? :O

[StoneyBridge Radar]

I don't think 55% load factors from one of the poorest areas of the country, which has higher than average fares on most flights and has only operated 5x weekly (sometimes) for less than 2.5 months (at the end of July) is THAT bad... Really...

Peak transatlantic season, the route should have a standby upgrade list and a standby list both as long as your arm and should be overbooked invariable every day of operation, much like the vast majority of transatlantic services in July and August.

55% in peak season is, to be blunt, lamentable.

It really is THAT bad... Really...

[EK77WNCL]

SWBKCB, Jet2 are the most sensical one I think, and if they ever manage to get any 767's or A330's the might actually give it a go. Although they could do it with the 757's and there may even be a business case for it I just don't think they will.

Thomas Cook... x2/x3 weekly A330, with regards to low cost O&D I reckon it could have a chance. If they set up an agreement with an airline at JFK (Jetblue?) they could probably support about a x5 weekly A330 in the summer at least.

Emirates... Why wouldn't they give them the rights? If I'm not mistaken they may actually already have most of the required rights (UAE-EU/EU-USA/UAE-USA open skies agreements). The only opposition would probably be the US3, but if United canned us then how would they have a leg to stand on? Apart from blaming the ME3. With their plethora of connections at JFK I think Emirates is the best option we have... They did Dubai, why can't they do it again?

They're all long shots, but for now we have United, I'm happy with that, I'm confident they'll be here next year and I hope I get a chance to sample them... As I mentioned before I just hope the schedule next year is slightly more comprehensive, late May - early September seems decidedly half arsed

Regarding Air Iceland, that actually wasn't a joke hahaha, I know what I said on the ABZ thread but I know the Q400 is a much more capable aircraft than that, it still has a lot more of it's useful range to play with on ABZ-KEF. For us I think it could be our best bet at a KEF service, I can't see Easyjet doing it, nothing been hinted at by Jet2... Thomson? Winter only charters, maybe... I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that this new Icelandair initiative works out well for Newcastle, a 757 would have been too big but the Dash is a good size!

[Charlie98]

No matter how many times you talk about Jet2 getting 767s, they have made it clear that their business model is not long haul. Why do people constantly talk about things without even a speck of evidence!

Newcastle is not a place which airlines are willing to throw long haul aircraft at - we should be looking more at Euro expansion.

[LAX_LHR]

EK77WNCL,

Thomas Cook have cautiously built their hub at the much larger operational base of Manchester, with JFK in particular starting up at 3 weekly and going 6 weekly next year, yet, you expect TCX to jump into NCL with a 5 weekly A330?

That's exactly what you need when you struggle to fill a B757 with soft fares and onward connections in peak season, an aircraft with double the capacity and reliant purely on O&D traffic!

[SWBKCB]

Emirates... Why wouldn't they give them the rights? If I'm not mistaken they may actually already have most of the required rights (UAE-EU/EU-USA/UAE-USA open skies agreements).

Happy to be corrected, but isn't EU-USA open skies only for EU and US airlines?

[LiamNCL]

Sorry but no way anyone would of expected a big list of standbys & a 757 100% full everyday for NCL - EWR. Todays flight was full and there have still been some good loads lately so the PAX are there to be had there is no excuse of people arent here. If it returns then i really think the advertisment needs to be better , Billboards in the city centre and out into northumberland / south into Durham etc could easily be plastered in United adverts to gain maximum regional exposure.

About other topics

TCX - No chance of long haul here im afraid as said they are making MAN their main long haul hub , What can be done though is pushing TCX to bring more seats or more destinations

J2 - Another 738 next year so visual expanding ever so slightly , Never will be a long haul airline other than the one off flights in Winter

TOM - Extra flights to CUN next year and IMO our best channel for long haul expansion in the future

EK - Prime example of how an established long haul airline can grow from a regional airport given time , Will now almost certainly IMO be maybe a year or two from a 2nd Daily

[Travel Agent]

There has been loads of advertising for this route... Front pages of local newspapers, regional TV news programmes, the airport have really pushed it regularly through the local trade who have all tried to give it as big a push as possible.

The top and bottom of it is, is that you need the people in the front seats ie business travellers to use it and if they cannot get a regular service and all ready have loyalty to other airlines / alliances who have multiple connections and more importantly regular flights daily, why should they start to shift to United when they don't even know if the flight will return next summer?

It would be great to see the flight daily and year round for business pax, but if the demand or yield is not there, they will move the 757 to where they can make money (as we saw with it moving to EDI last week during the festival). Emirates works well as it has slowly grown, but it has the cargo to help it out which is a huge help economically.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Todays flight was full

The 160 arrived with 126 /169
LF 74%
Of the 16 BF seats, 11 were taken, 8 were upgrades.
Economy Plus was almost empty.

This illustrates the problem with the route; it is back filling the 'cheap' seats in Economy, but the premium and J seats are often, stress often not always, either going out empty or are being filled by free upgrades.

On the plus side, it does reflect that there are Premier travellers to have that number of upgrades.

For completeness, the 159 went back with 165 / 169, 2 empty in BF and 2 in Y+.

[ash666]

I must be way behind the times as I've only just notice a flight to Verona by "JQ" (dep. 13.20)
Is this Jetstar??
How long has it been operating?

[NCL-TRC]

The "JQ" flight is Albastar (737-400), operating VRN flights for Thomson this summer.

[ash666]

Thanks, I had no idea.
I assume it is another one to go come the autumn.

[Jamesair]

NORWICH - NCL.....Links Air...double daily, Weekdays has gone through to Stage 2 of the Regional Connectivity Fund routes application process.

[HH6702]

Great news let's hope it can happen

[Jamesair]

It's certainly looking more likely now....see how it gets on at the next stage. I think it could be quite a good route....difficult destination to get to be train/car.

[EK77WNCL]

Interesting, I thought the RACF had been cancelled

[VentureGo]

More disruption to this service, as today's inbound from Newark is more than 3 hours late arriving at 10.42. Departure of UA159 for return to EWR is now expected to be 14.30 (Over 5 hours later than 09.10 scheduled dep. time)

[HH6702]

Least it's running

[ash666]

The latest airport reviews are in today's Which? magazine and NCL comes out on top of the large (4mn+ pax) airports.

Apparently there is 15mins free parking in the mid-stay car park. I can't ever remember seeing a mid-stay car park.

[HH6702]

Looks like delta are giving edi another try next summer

So that's now 3 airlines fighting for New York and connection business from edi.

United
American
Delta


I would hope that United gives NCL another try if not I would expect another one of the big American Airlines to try us

Better to have the route then to let another in

[SWBKCB]

I would expect another one of the big American Airlines to try us

What makes you think that?

[EK77WNCL]

I'm confident we won't lose it (for 2016 at least) but I just hope fares come down, who tend to be the cheapest across the atlantic? I'm inclined to think AA.


God knows what's happening at Edinburgh... All they need now is EK, Norwegian and that direct link to China and there'll be a full on bloodbath!

[SWBKCB]

Medium stay car park on the linked map - across the road to the north of the short stay

Official Newcastle Airport? Parking: Save up to 60% (http://www.newcastleairport.com/car-parking)

[ash666]

Thanks. The things you learn.

[LiamNCL]

Dont think United has been as bad as people make out , Some great loads some not soo good but this is a 5x weekly trial route Mid May - Early Sept . Hoping they are back with a bit of a increase to months maybe April - Oct / Nov

[skyman771]

Can't understand UA's attitude, absolutely no reason to hold back on a positive response IF they were to do EWR in 2016, the figures are all there for UA bar a few late bookings / give away fares to increase LF's which in their appraisal will be all but irrelevant.
The key to marketing is consistency & late announcements & uncertainty will have by now put off all the early bookings given "the competition" are all now accepting booking 12M in advance.
However it would be in their interests to hold back on a negative announcement until end of season as it would do nothing to support the marketing of the remaining flights.
Personally on what I have read & seen, then I don't see that UA has derived very much at all from this particular venture to NE England.:(
The only positive that I can take is that UA have invested a considerable amount in setting up this service, & perhaps they may just take a longer "2 year view" on their investment.
Guess it's fair to say that we can not expect UA to EWR daily at any time soon;)

[HH6702]

I've heard that the service IS coming back in summer 2016 and will be on sale mid September

Reason for the hold back is talks ongoing on the frequency of flights.
Talks of 4 weekly 757 or a 3 weekly with the 767

Heard the 767 rumour for a few weeks now
It's still a guessing game but looks like United will try again

[ATNotts]

I've heard that the service IS coming back in summer 2016 and will be on sale mid September

Reason for the hold back is talks ongoing on the frequency of flights.
Talks of 4 weekly 757 or a 3 weekly with the 767

Heard the 767 rumour for a few weeks now
It's still a guessing game but looks like United will try again

3/4 times weekly would make the service totally unattractive for front end passengers; to be frank, 5 isn't a great deal of good either. Without the benefit of premium class passengers it wouldn't be possible to offer decent fares in cattle class.

A proper trial would be daily, between May / October, which ought to attract more of the business PAX, which I'm sure do exist in the Northeast of England. That is what NCL should be striving for.

[nighthawk117]

I really cant see them using a 767 to NCL. The UK market is perfect for the 757, keeping the 767s free to launch routes further into Europe.

If they are struggling for 757s, then it would make more sense to upgrade an existing 757 route that is near full capacity, rather than using one to Newcastle. I think they send a couple of 757s to Heathrow still, this must be the prime candidate for an upgrade. Either that or Manchester/Glasgow.

Newcastle would surely be near the bottom of the list for a 767.

[VentureGo]

767 would make sense from a freight perspective (which businesses in the N. East have wanted) Difficult to fill with pax if fares were to remain at this years highs. Maybe a mix of profiable freight with attractive coach fares, and a regular daily service would pay off (as per Emirates), but would in my opinion be quite a gamble, which US Airlines tend not to take.

[Ian Brooks]

The B767 have a lot more business class than the B757s

Ian

[Skipness One Echo]

Talks of 4 weekly 757 or a 3 weekly with the 767
This would give NCL the smallest volume of weekly seats in the whole US-Europe operation? Is there any other UA destination that doesn't hit daily in the summer peak to Europe? (Bet there is, just curious!)

[CentreFix25]

You have to bare in mind that these rumours usually start in a field just up from Callerton metro station, and tend to be more wishful thinking than anything else.

[SWBKCB]

767 would make sense from a freight perspective (which businesses in the N. East have wanted)

Have they? I can see freight helping UA, but can't see it having any impact on North East industry. A daily service vs 4-weekly would be more beneficially (although I think Centrefix has got it right).

[Falcon900LX]

Heard from a lad I know in that works at EWR that the service is to return pretty much the same, bar the the flight times. Leaving the U.S. A little later thus ariving in the UK around mid morning.

[HH6702]

Great news just hope they put the route on sale very soon.
Better connections at EWR with a later service?

Loads for August looking very good around 75%
Overall the route for the season is just over 60%

[skyman771]

Heard from a lad I know in that works at EWR that the service is to return pretty much the same
Presumably this is not the same "friend of a friend" who knows the father of a cab driver who does the daily rounds up & down the New Jersey Turnpike? ;)
Can't say that one should attribute too much from such comments, to an extent any "guess" re this route is 50% chance of being correct / wrong so even upon review there is a chance that a response will come back "I told you so...."

What I do hope is that the comment was made on an intelligent basis & not as with earlier 767 supposition, possibly from a "Reggie" dreaming up how many 767 frames are likely to fill up his note book.
By means of an explanation, then when you have a problem with capacity / LF's in general & a 4 day reduced operating basis, then a likely solution to improving revenues & thus success, is not by throwing additional capacity on those days that it does operate, whilst undermining service levels even further on a shorter 3 day reduced operating schedule.

[VentureGo]

Deja vu (Skyman)

[VentureGo]

Looking back to Newcastle's Winter Schedule '95/'96, (20 years ago!) I see Braathens operated 2 daily services to Norway using Boeing 737 a/c:
i) BU574 Departed NCL for Bergen via Stavanger at 10.25am (Sundays BU578 dep 1945)
ii) BU568 Departed NCL for Oslo at 1805 (Sundays BU564 dep 1215)

If I remember correctly, these flights were very competitively priced, and often full - They were very popular with Norwegians visiting our region's tourist areas and shopping (Tax refunded at airport desk)
Package tours were popular for UK visitors to Norway, as well as Business and DIY travellers.

Although Braathens were taken over by SAS, these routes / fares bare a resemblance to Norwegian Air. - Wonder if NCL are trying to attract Norwegian or does this fall into LCC and threfore not profitable to the airport, as well as possibly upsetting Wilderoe (SAS) with their business class model fares?

I also note Caledonian (CKT) operated a weekly flight to Goa, India, as well as Orlando, as Airtours then (AIH) throughout the winter schedule (now only Thomson)

[skyman771]

I also note Caledonian (CKT) operated a weekly flight to Goa, India, as well as Orlando, as Airtours then (AIH) throughout the winter schedule (now only Thomson)
Ahh... those were the days.........you even had pax figures improving steadily YoY:{

[owenc]

Looks like delta are giving edi another try next summer

So that's now 3 airlines fighting for New York and connection business from edi.

United
American
Delta


I would hope that United gives NCL another try if not I would expect another one of the big American Airlines to try us

Better to have the route then to let another in

Why? If United are unsuccessful it's not really going to change for any other American carrier.

[owenc]

I've heard that the service IS coming back in summer 2016 and will be on sale mid September

Reason for the hold back is talks ongoing on the frequency of flights.
Talks of 4 weekly 757 or a 3 weekly with the 767

Heard the 767 rumour for a few weeks now
It's still a guessing game but looks like United will try again

United don't do 767's. Dublin has two daily 757's and so does Edinburgh.

757 to ORD and IAD from DUB! Plus the introduction of ps service from EWR so more 757's off the transatlantic routes.

This route might be cancelled.

[HeartyMeatballs]

@VentureGo: I don't see how LCC pax don't make money for the airport. A good % of NCL a departures are by LCCs so why do they bother if they don't make them money?

[SWBKCB]

Braathens, Caledonian, Airtours - all no longer operating.

[10 DME ARC]

I also note Caledonian (CKT) operated a weekly flight to Goa, India, as well as Orlando, as Airtours then (AIH) throughout the winter schedule (now only Thomson)

Goa I remember it well an A320 which originated out of GLA then over night via various places to Goa!

Braathens were great used them a few times......

[VentureGo]

A good % of NCL a departures are by LCCs so why do they bother if they don't make them money?

Newcastle Airport try to keep a balance of 1/3 each Business, Leisure, (Thomson, T. Cook etc..) & LCC. Some LCC bring more revenue than others in respect of paying charges, where others pay very little expecting the airport to value retail & catering trade from their passengers (I attended a talk given by the airport financial director to a business forum about 2 years ago, where this info was given) Charges/Payments for landing & use of facilities and airport handling services will vary per operator, as part of their negotiations whether to serve Newcastle or not. Note: Ryanair's lack of volume presence. Guess it's striking the right balance.

Braathens, Caledonian, Airtours - all no longer operating.

Well they do! Braathens merged with SAS in 2001, and as a result of the merger BU gave up their routes to Oslo, Stavanger & Bergen due to competition rules as they would in effect have a monopoly on the Norwegian network
Caledonian (CKT) and Airtours (AIH) are now Thomas Cook

[CabinCrewe]

I dont recall winter-long Orlando flights

[Skipness One Echo]

United don't do 767's. Dublin has two daily 757's and so does Edinburgh.
They most certainly do fly B767-300ERs across the Atlantic every day as well as the larger 400ER.

[AerRyan]

When united launched the SNN-ORD route a few years ago it wasn't daily at all during the first year. It is now though.

[beedoubleu]

Spanair 767's performed a winter Orlando season about the early 90's I remember.

[GrahamK]

Orlando was served during the winter by BY 767-200s IIRC. Goa was a 320 shared with GLA and stopped off in Ankara, Amman and Bahrain I think. ATA done a summer JFK on the 757 at the sam time

[Jamesair]

I think the 757 replacement by 767 stories originated from an interview that United gave saying that they were planning to retire the 757's from Transatlantic service and replacing them with 767 a/c in 2016. This was reported in Airliner World.

I remember reading the article.

[AerRyan]

I think it was that united are withdrawing 757's from Mainland europe, but keeping them on the UK and Ireland

[Una Due Tfc]

The only UK/IRL airport getting widebodies from UA is LHR. If that changes, DUB,MAN, and EDi will get them well before NCL. SNN and BFS have daily flights with far higher LFs too.

[Falcon900LX]

Presumably this is not the same "friend of a friend" who knows the father of a cab driver who does the daily rounds up & down the New Jersey Turnpike?

No, He works in maintenance, I rang him because I was after a definite answer about the flight.


His words or there abouts it was 3am, were "The Newcastle flight is returning next year but departing later, whether the management change it thats up to them but from our prospective it's going to continue."

[owenc]

They most certainly do fly B767-300ERs across the Atlantic every day as well as the larger 400ER.

Not to the British Isles. United has carried over 200,000 passengers through Dublin and uses 4 757's.

[LAX_LHR]

Owen,

Hate to break it to you, but, United does send its B767-300s to the British Isles. Continental used to do so too.

Also, lumping Dublin into 'the British Isles' is one sure way to p**s some people off, let's not do that.

[VentureGo]

Orlando was served during the winter by BY 767-200s IIRC. Goa was a 320 shared with GLA

From 95/96 Winter Timetable:

Also: AIH 63/4 Dep NCL 0930 Ret NCL 0810 B757 Operates 04/11/95 - 20/04/96 Airtours (Now Thomas Cook)

This flight was operated by Airtours Boeing 757 - Tour Operators were listed on timetable as Airtours and Cosmos

from Newcastle Airport Winter Timetable 95/96 (hard copy)

[SWBKCB]

Also, lumping Dublin into 'the British Isles' is one sure way to p**s some people off, let's not do that.

If they are p**sed off, they should learn their geography.

The British Isles is a geographical definition which covers Great Britain and Ireland and thus the nations of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and Ireland.

Back to Newcastle...

[owenc]

Owen,

Hate to break it to you, but, United does send its B767-300s to the British Isles. Continental used to do so too.

Also, lumping Dublin into 'the British Isles' is one sure way to p**s some people off, let's not do that.

United doesn't send widebody's to the British Isles, it's already been stated that they only send the widebodies to Heathrow. Their strategy is frequency.

[skyman771]

from Newcastle Airport Winter Timetable 95/96 (hard copy)

Hmmmm this must be a collectors item, still each to their own,

owenc
United doesn't send widebody's to the British Isles, it's already been stated that they only send the widebodies to Heathrow.
& where was it that you were taught geography ?:ugh: