NEWCASTLE - 8

[LiamNCL]

Newcastle will not be a 5million pax airport forever , it will take years to grow and will always be behind the big airports but to say the airport will never see the A380 is just stupid , No one can predict anything acurate beyond the 5 year mark.

[Jamesair]

The airport Masterplan forecasts 6.1m pax in 2021 rising to 8.5m by 2030.

[Ph1l1pncl]

NCL's website states:

Fire cover Category 8

MAN is Category 10

Website giving the breakdown of categories
NCL can, therefore, handle: length of aircraft between 49m and 61m long


I thought the airport was Category 9 as the 777 length is 73 metres which is above Category 8, the airport does have three Panther appliances which according to the link a minimum of three engines are required and the airport also has a older smaller appliance that it can use, unless it does upgrade for the Emirates flight and the remainder of the time it is Category 8.

[EK77WNCL]

I think, honestly that the Airport's master plan is being extremely conservative, all being well I'd hope we could be heading towards 7-8 mil by 2021 and well over 10 mil by 2030. After all, we were heading for 7 mil in 2009 before the credit crunch.

If we truly are out of the recession and the upturn goes well... NCL will do well, just look at LBA for example, unless something drastic changes at NCL they will overtake us by 2015.

Regarding fire cover, 61m??? But the 77W is 65m so I'm confused as to how that works. Fire cover could be upgraded pretty quickly, I'm sure NCL has been commended on it's fire service and I'm under the impression Cat 10 probably wouldn't be that difficult to upgrade to as there is less to upgrade from 8 to 10 than there is to upgrade, for example from 6 to 8. And if MME can upgrade with not much notice to handle 777's and A330's...

And yeah, NCL, especially when it comes to EK, or maybe just EK in general is just completely unpredictable.
- When EK was first discussed, people were talking about 4 weekly A310, the A330 was discounted due to it's size.
- 2006, EK first rumoured, 4 weekly A330 talked about, daily deemed too much.
- EK announce the route, daily A330, everyone says it wont work.
- 2009, 777 first mentioned, load factors called abysmal, people saying they would pull the route, NCL cant handle 777's etc. At most people think the 77E/L could come but very doubtful.
- 75th Anniversary, proven the 77W can operate with a full load.
- When the daily 77W was announced, even I was shocked, because as EK was shown, there is enough slack for a 77L to operate the route, but no, they picked the larger. People still talk about the route being dropped.
- And now, here we are 1827 A330's and 473 777's later and people still don't have faith in the route, BUT EK themselves have talked about 2 daily in a few years and us enthusiasts are hoping for the A380 one day, just as some hoped for the 777 4 years ago.

Please... Let us dream, there's nothing wrong with it here on Professional Pilots Only Facts Network.

[Heathrow Harry]

EK have a lot of aircraft to use and they see the big picture of feeding as much traffic as possible through Dubai

As for A380's I've seen EK 380's at Aukland and the catchment area there must be similar to Newcastle's - obviously more tourists and more Govt types but even so it's not impossible in a few years

probably it will come down to a tradeoff between one 380 or 2 x 777

[apaul]

The A380 wasn't designed for Newcastle and the airport isn't designed for it. I'd be surprised it ever flies regularly from the airport. EasyJet has released flights for late September until 25 October. It looks like Tues-Thursday Newcastle-Bristol is reduced to one late night flight per day (on A320) . That's not a convenient schedule for many people.

[fa2fi]

Oh great. 5 hours on a cross country cattle cart. That's going to a hoot!

[LiamNCL]

course it wasnt designed for NCL , People are just stating that it wouldnt be impossible one day to make the airport A380 Ready no matter how stupid negative people think it is , nobody is saying this is possible in 5 years time but one day who knows

[Captain_Adams]

This is comedy gold at its finest.

Thank you so much EK77WNCL and HH6702 for giving me such a good laugh on this dull day.

EK77WNCL, you say 10x A380 into Heathrow. Please can you tell me where the extra slots and terminal capacity is going to come from?

Clearly clueless as usual and dragging this once brilliant site and informative section into the gutter..

People used to enjoy reading this thread but now it seems to be have taken over by idiots clearly living in cloud cuckoo land and is no longer enjoyable to read.

Shame on you.:mad:

[SWBKCB]

BRS down to one a day? Won't be using that as an alternative for the BE EXT then :*

[Jamesair]

Something similar is happening to BFS with EZY with Tues and Wed down to once a day for that period.

[EK77WNCL]

Captain_Adams, at no point did I mention 10 daily A380's to Heathrow, I said 10 daily A380's to LONDON. Heathrow, Gatwick and likely Stansted before long.

Please also explain how I am dragging this rumour site down the gutter by discussing rumours.

I dont' understand why people get so uptight all the time, we are discussing what we would like to see, what we hope to see, what we THINK may have the slightest possibility of happening in the future.

Thank you. :mad:

[CabinCrewe]

In this thread particularly recently I think the term Professional Pilots Rumour Network has been dragged way down more in keeping now with Spotters Rumour Network. I suspect that was the point being made. There is a separate forum for Spotters/non employed enthusiasts hopes and dreams and a place for you to vent your obvious interest.

[Captain_Adams]

Well said CabinCrewe.

What was once a reputable source of information has become some sort of playground.

EK77WNCL, again I ask you where the extra slots and terminal capacity is going to magically appear at Heathrow.

Also you state that 'everyone' said the EK route wouldn't be a success. Who exactly said that?

[NigelBlend]

Is it JUST Emirates flying out of NCL these days? Seems that's all that gets mentioned on any NCL Forums....

[JonnyH]

Are people not allowed to have an opinion? Does the information have to be factual? I thought this was a rumour network, after all...

Back on topic, never say never, but I think we would be waiting a long, long time before we see a schedule flight bring an A380 into NCL. We simply cannot compete and the passenger numbers show that.

[Skipness One Echo]

There is a separate forum for Spotters/non employed enthusiasts hopes and dreams and a place for you to vent your obvious interest.
You don't seriously think Airlines, Airports and Routes is full of aviation employees do you? It's a half way house for discussion around local airports where pros do chip in but let's not pretend you get too many pilots in here.

Newcastle doesn't see B747s nowadays but Wardair operated back in the day, markets come and go but Dubai will continue to grow I suspect. There's not THAT many seats on the A380, and with GLA looking like a candidate for a mid term up-guage then who knows. Emirates do have loads on order and they will need to place them somewhere. Perhaps we should revisit in a year or two, it's hardly imminent?

Anyhoo he's fifteen years old with his heart in the right place, give him the rest of his life to realise that dreams don't always pan out. The old BAA told us all once GLA would have twice daily United B767s to IAD/ORD alongside BA to JFK. That was a bubble that burst pretty quickly, killed by the coming of the cartels, er I mean alliances. Five years is further than most planners dare predict, which is annoying as fleet planning is for decades!

[Hipennine]

CaptAdams, CabinCrewe and all, I agree entirely. The NCL thread has particularly become very spotterish. In the past few weeks, there's been loads of "anybody know why reg G-ZZZZ operated the Corfu last night" type posts, plus individual's fantasy futures. These latter are not rumours, nor discussions based around any statistical facts, just pure spotter fantasies.

[ash666]

As the thread is, "airlines, airports and routes" I would have thought that all things NCL were able to be discussed.
Not that I have enjoyed the endless bickering over the last couple of days.

[andrewmcharlton]

Steady on lads, this is going to become like DTV if you're not careful. Instead of who operated to Corfu last night it will be does anyone know who the Blue Astra belongs to as they might buy something in the shop and keep us open another week.

Merry Christmas to one and all in any event, I'm not usually festive but this year I make an exception.

[Hipennine]

In the sticky at the top of this forum, posted by PPRuNePop as moderator:

"This forum is for posting interesting events at Airports including the development of and therein. It's also for relating that which is of interest in regard to Airlines at airports - the scope is wide but it should not be overstated. And lastly, it is for posting information of interest in regard to routes but NOT for advertising routes or procedures.

Finally, it is intended that it be ever professional. PPRuNe has a wealth of talent which is freely available from the Flight Deck and Cabin, thru operations and airline infrastructure. It is this that is of interest to the airline fraternity and those with a genuine interest in how it all works.

So, if you fit the above you are welcome. If, however, you fit into the category of a Walter Mitty or someone who thinks they know how to run an airline or airport better than those who can and do, you have our permission to go away to find another site where you fit right in. You will no longer be welcome here."

"Its up to you now. We will show little tolerance so don't bother to contact us if your post has been removed.

Remember too, that there are far too many spotters question on this forum. You MUST address such questions to that forum. If you don't they will be removed."

And from Evileyes:

"Due to of another spate of misdirected posts needing deletion we regrettably must again remind you that the 'Airlines, Airports and Routes' forum isn't the spotters forum. If you ever find yourself tempted to type in a registration number or discuss aircraft livery it is extremely likely that you are making or responding to a spotter post.

Neither is this forum interested in aircraft seating configuration, in flight entertainment, or which aircraft type is flying a particular route except as a component of a discussion of the business of the airline. The Passenger Forum might be."

[Captain_Adams]

Brilliantly put HiPennine.

As previously stated, this forum was once a pleasure to read and view, but as of late it has become some playground for these sorts of people to air their fantasies that are quite frankly exactly that - fantasies.

Please can this forum try and claw back some sort of pride and restore the once brilliant reputation it had by curbing recent posts that are filled with utter nonsense?

Thank you.

[Jamesair]

There will be a smooth transition from Jet 2 to Aer Lingus Regional with Jet 2 ceasing operation on the 28th March and Aer Lingus starting on the 30th March.

Flights are operated MON/THURS/FRI/SUN
ARR. NCL 1630 DEP NCL 1655

[JonnyH]

NCL got one of the 6 BA flights diverted last night. Ba166 came to us after the bad weather in LHR.*

*dont know if this is defined as a spotter post?!

[EK77WNCL]

To be honest JonnH I don't see why it should matter, it's still Newcastle news after all. Thank you very much for the update.

[NigelBlend]

Wow! A non Emirates related post in the Newcastle Forum! It must be one of those Christmas Miracles folk go on about

[Captain_Adams]

jonnyH, it was relevant to the happenings at Newcastle. The point I was making is that EK77WNCL's posts are not as they are his own personal fantasies that bear no relevance to the real world and events etc at Newcastle.

[GrahamK]

Despite all the recent gripes in this thread, I'd like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas! :ok:

[Jamesair]

I second that....Merry Christmas to all :ok:

[EK77WNCL]

Merry Christmas and here's to a happy new year of aviation at Newcastle Airport!

[CentreFix25]

Merry Christmas!

Should have a sweep stake, next new destination not already announced!

[GrahamK]

CF25, New York is banned then :ok:

Though not new distinations, I'll take a swipe at Jet2 announcing Larnaca or Zakynthos

[HH6702]

Merry Xmas to you all...

Let the dreams an real life continue in 2014!!



I agree jet2 LCA and ZTH!!

[EK77WNCL]

LCA and ZTH are (I hope) a given, just unfortunate it'll be 2015 and not 2014.

I think that by the end of 2014 one (or hopefully more) of the following will be announced:
Wizzair: Maybe Warsaw, Gdansk, Poznan etc... (x2-4 weekly, A320)
Vueling: Barcelona (x3 weekly A320)
Turkish: Istanbul (x4-5 weekly 739)

Then there are some that might happen later, 2-3 years time, if we are lucky, but I wouldn't get my hopes up:
SAS: Oslo and or Bergen (x4-5 weeky 736/CR9)

On the other hand there are the ones with potential that unfortunately will never happen due to various factors:
El Al: Tel Aviv (x2 weekly 737/738)

I'd be quite condifent of BUD from LS too.

Dare I say New York might happen in the next 20 years?

Cheers, some speculation for the new year. I've heard that Wizzair have considered NCL before and Vueling, so I heard, was almost confirmed but maybe not. Turkish are expanding very rapidly, SAS? Norway used to be strong, times change? Bergen Maybe? El AL, there are lots of orthodox Jews in Gateshead, the largest outside of Jerusalem and many will only fly EL Al so there is the possibility, but Newcastle might not be complient, I don't know.

[johnnychips]

there are lots of orthodox Jews in Gateshead, the largest outside of Jerusalem

You sure? Tel Aviv, London and New York come to mind.

[Ian Brooks]

Don`t forget North Manchester as well

Chaps

[Jamesair]

New routes I look on as possible at some stage are Milan,(Jet 2, BMI Regional) Istanbul, (Turkish) Frankfurt (Lufthansa, BMI)and Oslo (SAS , Wideroe, Norwegian).

[GrahamK]

The total Jewish population in the North East of England is around 3,500. London, Manchester and Leeds all have much larger Jewish populations (some 40,000 in Greater Manchester alone). I cannot see how this amount would enable NCL to sustain a TLV flight.

As for Wizz Air, a possibility I suppose but I believe the Polish population is declining.

Vueling, NCL already has EZY (BCN) and Ryanair (Girona) who serve the Barcelona market, I don't believe there would be enough room for a 3rd carrier. Palma, Alicante and Malaga could be possibilities as we know the Geordies love the sun.

Oslo, I don't think we'll see again. If anyone was to operate it, then possibly bmi in between the BRU flights.

I'd still like to see Santorini return, it's a nice holiday destination,

[EK77WNCL]

Sorry, my mistake. Gateshead has the largest Yeshiva in Europe and has one of the largest Orthodox (Haredi) Jewish populations in the UK/Europe. Although, yes 3500 people probably isn't enough to support the route, although some tourists would be attracted too.

[JonnyH]

I for one, no matter what religion, would be hopping on a plane to Gateshead (especially for religious reasons). 3500 Jews is no where enough to sustain a route. Half of them will be too tight to put their hands in their pockets...

[N707ZS]

Its too late to send request letters to father christmas!

[HH6702]

Hi

Hope everyone had a nice xmas
This is what i think of what has been posted

Wizzair: I would like to see this airline make a go at NCL. Warsaw was tried from down the road at DTV. Wrong airport but could work 2x weekly Fri,Mon
Gdansk, Poznan etc maybe but do they have the right size aircraft for NCL A320??

Vueling: Barcelona (x3 weekly A320) Why NOT???
Could be a little bloody bath as it is close as people have stated to ALC,GRO etc.
Best thing about Vueling is there product over the likes of EZY,FR,JET2.
Also could you connect onto other routes served by Vueling and also can you collect one world member points??
Could be a winner but dont think we will see until at least 2015 and maybe summer service only

Turkish: Istanbul (x4-5 weekly 739) It would be nice to see them at NCL giving a year round service to Turkey. However i feel that NCL will fall victim to piggy in the middle between EDI and MAN. The plus side is they have a large aircraft order and they need to place them somewhere!

SAS: Oslo and or Bergen (x4-5 weeky 736/CR9)
Maybe we should hope for DY first.

On the other hand there are the ones with potential that unfortunately will never happen due to various factors:
El Al: Tel Aviv (x2 weekly 737/738)
Even if there is only 3,500 in the NCL area there seems to be more than that travelling weekly between NCL and MAN and LONDON using the east coast trains..... It would be nice for them to try NCL

I'd be quite condifent of BUD and others from LS too.

New York WILL happen in the next ??? years?

Norwegian--------
With Norwegian now flying from LGW on behalf of Thomson to ALC and other spanish routes allowing the Thomson Aircraft to fly to Turkey instead.
I think there is a real chance we could see these at NCL in 2015 but flying for charter airlines. Aircraft could do for example LGW-ALC-NCL-ALC-LGW???

Should be fun in the coming years. however i feel this year will be boring compared to last summer for choice of airlines

[Skipness One Echo]

Even if there is only 3,500 in the NCL area there seems to be more than that travelling weekly between NCL and MAN and LONDON using the east coast trains..... It would be nice for them to try NCL
Jews? You count Jewish looking people on trains or have I gravely misuderstood you. I hope I have(!)
Also could you connect onto other routes served by Vueling and also can you collect one world member points??
They're not a member nor an affiliate sadly, they're merely owned by someone (IAG) who owns two members (BA/IB).

[HH6702]

Jews with there !00 suitcases each trying to avoid extra baggage charges!!!!

So vueling you cant collect points but can you transfer from one route to another?

[CabinCrewe]

You just credit your Vueling Avios points to Iberia Plus and then have them transferred to BA Exec club. Unfortunately most are after Tier points which are non transferable

[EK77WNCL]

Yes you can transfer on VY flights at BCN.

I was thinking SAS might have been a better punt than DY because of the better sized aircraft and onward connections, yet DY does offer much of the same with lower fares. Could we even see DY open a base at NCL with 1 738 based if they get their Irish AOC? That would be nice to see, they could open up untapped markets such as Morocco and some Greek/Croatian markets. Then the obligatory PMI/TFS runs and maybe some Italian and Spanish cities?

I think if Wizzair have made such a good go of DSA, NCL should work pretty well for them. They're bloody cheap too! The only airline I know of that was as consistently cheap as them was Bmibaby. Ryanair and Easyjet occasionally but not as consistently.

El Al and Turkish would be really nice to see.

[SWBKCB]

Tel Aviv - really? Can we cut out the El Al racial stereotyping nonsense and stick to facts - where's the market?

As to the rest, I appreciate this is an attempt at a wish list but try backing up with a bit of common sense - i.e.

what are the common factors with DSA that would make Wizz such a success - other than LTN when was the last new UK route?

why would DY need to wait for the Irish AOC - do they have a model of single a/c bases at regional airports?

Turkish would jump in with a 739 when they have smaller a/c, what would be the impact on EK?

SAS group companies op CRJ's to CPH and DH8D to SVG but they'd jump in with 736/CR9 to Oslo and or Bergen - what onward connections?

[crewmeal]

Jews with there !00 suitcases each trying to avoid extra baggage charges!!!!

HH6702 I find your comments both insulting and racial. This is not the forum for bringing up such drival along with those remarks about East Coast Trains. Anyone will try and avoid paying excess baggage charges. Try and remember not everyone who travels to TLV is Jewish, so please don't 'pick' on a religious group.

[Jamesair]

Can we move on please and drop all mention of El Al etc., it obviously raises sensibilities which are not a part of this forum.

[EK77WNCL]

Turkish would jump in with a 739 when they have smaller a/c, what would be the impact on EK?

TK would have minimal effect on EK, they'll cater for mostly different markets and there's still another 4 hours to go after Istanbul before you get to Dubai.

[SWBKCB]

Istanbul wouldn't be the primary destination of most TK pax ex NCL, in the same way most EK pax aren't going to DXB - so very much the same market and from the North East probably not big enough for both.

[fa2fi]

I certainly hope DY don't set up a base at NCL. They'll just undercut the current airlines operating routes, who will pull out, leaving DY without competition so they will increase prices. The jobs they provide will be low paid and unstable.

I agree that Baby were cheap. But look where that got them. TK can bring little to us that BA/KL/AF/EK/LH bring us with flights via their respective hubs. Yes they fly to Iraq/Afgha/Rural Turkey but I can't imagine there's enough demand to operate the route from NCL.

[Jamesair]

I suppose the biggest prize for NCL would be a link to the USA which would open up a lot of new markets (freight) and pax being able to link through whichever hub was chosen, through to the rest of the USA and Latin America. Unfortunately, I feel that the more links Edinburgh gets the less likely NCL is to get its own direct service.

[HH6702]

At last found a new flight

Tuesdays
Newcastle - Antalya 13:45 20:20
Antalya - Newcastle 10:00 12:45

Olympic Holidays using Onur Air!!!!

No Aegean flights this summer

However the Thomson timetable didnt fit with the extra PMI.
Maybe the Thomson flights on a tuesday now fits fine will take a look

[JND6198]

Do you reckon there would be any chance of an Aeroflot link to Russia? They have been expanding quite a bit recently, just a thought though

[SWBKCB]

the "Random route generator" seems to have been the gift of choice this Christmas :ok:

[HH6702]

Can't see flights to Russia just yet. Think they would choose Manchester first.
It would be nice to see a link to ncl.

How many pax used the JET2 flight to st. Petersburg ?
Think jet2 should do a few more one off's to places like this .


I would have thought that ICELAND seems to be getting an increase from easyjet for next summer. BRS and EDI havin flights.

Could we see NCL getting a link to ICELAND?
Didnt we used to be linked in the winter time with icelandair back in the late 90's?

Maybe jet2 could try it 2x weekly

[JND6198]

Yeah Jet2 could try the route, maybe easyjet might have a stab at it sometime maybe 2x weekly

[SWBKCB]

The Icelandair flights many years ago were shopping flights - given recent events, I can't see the Icelanders invading the Metro Centre again any time soon.

[HH6702]

There was a market for the link.

Things can't be that bad as easyjet have added flights from lgw,brs,edi and I'm sure that icelandair have added flights too.
So the market must be coming back lets try and get them back to the north east(metrocentre?)

[CabinCrewe]

Aeroflot.... ?! First it was El Al, now Aeroflot. I wouldnt have thought so.
Stick to Santorini.

[Richard Taylor]

How about...a Chinese route? There must be plenty takeaways in The Toon... ;)

[EK77WNCL]

Actually I remember there being real discussion about a direct china flight, maybe x2 weekly, could the 787 open this up again as a possibility? China Southern NCL-CAN? Maybe shared with x5 weekly MAN-CAN?

TK and EK would not effect each other much, honestly... Many more TK passengers would be O&D than DXB passengers (although they are on the increase, think it's about 60% now). TK fly to many other countries, and secondary cities within those countries. They would also cater for Eastern Europe too. Apart from a small percentage who will connect to East Asia and some African destinations who will have the choice of EK or TK which wil likely depend on price/loyalty/journey time etc. Some may prefer the equal split in journey time offered via DXB rather than a short flight-long flight offered by IST/AMS/LHR/CDG. Then there's also the small matter of a 151 seat 737 900ER vs a 427 seat 777 300ER

[Skipness One Echo]

Oh it's getting silly now.
Any long haul route to MAN is not going to be "shared" with NCL on a non daily basis, it's not something supported in these markets.

Some people are using the patented airliners.net happy dartboard of wish fulfilment route planning. TK and EK are very much fighting for market share in the same space, bewarned!

[Fairdealfrank]

Could see it working with FI, provided it linked conveniently with KEF flights to North America, probably not daily, and not if it "dilutes" GLA. Yes, there are a lot of "if"s

[heslop2006]

Travelling out of NCL to all corners of the globe this year, there could be a few places in the back of my mind that personally, I would find useful as would other people hopefully.

What I would like to see is:

A strong connection to a German airport such as a Frankfurt or Munich.

My next few are questions aimed at anyone who can supply an answer, bare in mind that I don't work at the airport nor am I employed by an airline, so these questions are merely from a generic public member:

1. Is there enough for a company such as SAS to expand more into Scandinavia, as in somewhere like Sweden - Gothenburg or Stockholm?

2. Does NCL have the potential to expand it's holiday destinations with Jet2 to somewhere in places Morocco or new destinations that are previously untouched in Spain such as Jerez or Granada?

3. Does NCL have potential to host a second Middle-Eastern airliner to a destination in that area, such an airline to Abu Dhabi or Doha?

_____________________________________

In terms of Iceland, I've just finished working as a Christmas temp. at HMV in Newcastle City Centre and I didn't serve a single Icelandic person but I did serve a big amount of people from Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands.

Of course NCL has KLM to Amsterdam, SAS to Copenhagen and Lufthansa to Dusseldorf.

Question: Perhaps an airline such as transavia could open into a 2nd Dutch city such as Rotterdam?

[Fairdealfrank]

3. Does NCL have potential to host a second Middle-Eastern airliner to a destination in that area, such an airline to Abu Dhabi or Doha?


No.


In terms of Iceland, I've just finished working as a Christmas temp. at HMV in Newcastle City Centre and I didn't serve a single Icelandic person but I did serve a big amount of people from Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands.


Re-read the post: ".....Could see it working with FI, provided it linked conveniently with KEF flights to North America.....", and ".....and not if it "dilutes" GLA....." FI have a route to/from GLA.

It's probably the nearest that NCL will ever get to a North American link, as there are already direct flights to/from there are to EDI, GLA and MAN.

BTW, the entire population of Iceland is less than that of Croydon, so it's entirely possible you wouldn't see any in HMV-Newcastle, even if one or two turned up in Newcastle.

[highwideandugly]

Bought a bottle of Newcastle Brown in Cape town recently...now there must be a market to there me thinks? SAA twice weekly??:)

[N707ZS]

How would you know someone was from Iceland? :ugh: Do they smell of fish or wear seal skins! I would hopefully say no!

[ash666]

Frankfurt would be a good addition. Isn't it the biggest airport/hub in the world now?

[SWBKCB]

Trying to get the discussion back on track:



Where are NCL in the list of UK airports?


Are there any destinations served from the airports just below/above us on the list not served from NCL?


Are there any specific local reasons why these routes are served which don't apply to NCL? Are there any specific local reasons that apply to NCL and not other similar airports?


Look at a map - to mis-quote Sir Alex Ferguson, Newcastle is a small city in one of the poorest areas of England surrounded by large areas of nothing. What would attract a new operator?




Other factors to consider - how do the following trends affect NCL? Are there opportunities (or threats!)


the big tour operators taking block bookings on LOCO's


the big tour groups integrating their airline operations across europe


North European airlines setting up remote bases in southern europe

[GrahamK]

Guys, try and be realistic. Provide some kind of information to back up your suggestions, otherwise the Mods will probably close this thread :ouch:

[LiamNCL]

is it just me or is more and more KLM 739s creeping on to the AMS route ?

[Hipennine]

I'd like to see a direct service to Plockton. I've had a couple of holidays there, and one year met another couple from Newcastle, so there must be a demand ! It takes nearly 7 hours to drive, and the train is even longer.

Seriously folks, over 80 percent of the proposed destinations suggested in the last couple of pages have all been tried and dropped from NCL in recent years - there's a serious commercial message in that. Frequencies on other routes (eg BCN) have been reduced. It's all because of lack of viable demand.

Follow GrahamK's suggestion: "Provide some kind of information to back up your suggestions", then there's a chance of having an adult objective commercial discussion about it.

[HH6702]

Its not always due to lack of demand its about having the choice of flights and times which will suit the passenger.

Here is 2 examples

DUS x 2 daily did really well. it got reduced and the pax figures nosedived!
This due to long connection times making AMS more appealing.
Im sure that if it went back to 2x daily the figures would rise again and people would use it.

Thinking of increase in flights look at what happened to SN figures when BMIR came along they went up due to 3 x daily flight.

Easyjet however is different. They had to make cuts due to getting a better deal at gatwick and more growth down there and they had limited aircraft.
Our base went from 7 based aircraft at one time down to 3. there was no way they could keep the amount of flights the same. it resulted in routes being dropped that did work.

Routes they dropped are working nicely for JET2 and they seem to be happy with the loads and are making a PROFIT!!!!

There is no reason why 2 or more carriers cant come onto the same route.

However saying that i dont think there is room just yet for 2 gulf carriers however i would be saying yes if and when EK decide to go 2x daily.

Advertising
Has BMIR done any adverts in papers yet to advertise the NCL-BRU route?
A lot of people i guess in the north east wont know its happening!!



I know the airport team does a good job and talks to airlines all the time.
They may have even been speaking to other carriers that we have been stating over the last few pages and hopefully something will come of these talks.


Hopefully HRG may get off the group in summer 2015!
Jet2 will also increase again for summer 2015 with more new routes...
these routes may not be new to the airport but this will increase the passenger choice from our local airport!!

[AMS70]

HRG - no chance. Too near to SSH which is never at full capacity with TCX and TOM anyway. Then there's the hated Air Passenger levy to consider...

[fa2fi]

There's an Apple Store in Newcastle now. Perhaps we'll see flights to Palo Alto. BMI regional can just rip out sets (they barely fill their planes anyway!), increase the range and make the interior more 'hip'. That's got to work.

More seriously. Can someone confirm if easyJet, the airline who made almost a half billion pounds this year is still NCLs biggest airline in terms of passenger numbers, providing regular year round flights to over a dozen destinations?

Jet2 have done well, but with many destinations served once weekly and an almost complete winter shutdown it is clear that the two airlines have very different models when it comes to operating their take on the LCC model. I'd just like to know how many pax they carry from NCL.

[EK77WNCL]

Jet2 is NCL's largest airline in terms of aircraft based, routes etc... If they were to open up some more year round routes and more winter routes they would without a doubt be the largest airline. I think it's routes like BRS, BFS and AMS that keep EZY the largest (as far as I know) in terms of passenger numbers because they operate 2/3 daily flights every day all year round along with other summer/winter seasonal routes.

If we ever get the 8 based aircraft from Jet2 I really hope to see more city routes. Berlin, Budapest, Vienna, Verona, Reykjavik, Marrakech.

EZY could expand at NCL using non based aircraft, did they ever try Hamburg or Lisbon?

[SWBKCB]

If we ever get the 8 based aircraft from Jet2 I really hope to see more city routes. Berlin, Budapest, Vienna, Verona, Reykjavik, Marrakech.

although this would require a change in the current "Jet2 Holidays" direction of the company where NCL is concerned - what was the last city break type destination they launched?

EZY could expand at NCL using non based aircraft, did they ever try Hamburg or Lisbon?

No

[Skipness One Echo]

Dude, seriously you need to start thinking in terms of airlines making money not on "biggest base" or "could ABC base n more aircraft to fly to XYZ?"

The current throughput is a reflection of what the market can support. Incremental increases will come as the economy improves however, this thread is now just a spotters wishlist sadly, and I say that as an enthusiast myself. Domestic aviation is still under massive pressure from APD and fantasy Green politics, coupled with security theatre making the train so much more attractive.
Jet2 seem more focussed on Glasgow after taking an age to get in there, post Globespan it's a Jet2 kind of market.

Remind me how many based LS units NCL has this summer?

[fa2fi]

It's not the amount of planes you have. It's bums on seats, how many you fill and how much you charge. Every time I fly in to NCL there's 5 planes parked up. LS may have a larger aircraft has but if they're gathering dust when easy are all up flying then they'll struggle to beat ezy in terms of numbers. Take tomorrow for example. EZY have 8 departures, LS have 3. Which airline makes the airport and it's shops and suppliers the most money?

[EK77WNCL]

Yes but easyjet will have about 8 all year round, Jet2 have 12+ through the summer. Different business models from NCL... In fact, they probably make about the same from airport purchases. Holidaymakers are probably more inclined to buy things in duty free than businessmen going down to Bristol or across to Belfast for the day.

[HH6702]

Heard rumours last spring that easyjet were to start Berlin again using a Berlin aircraft.

Not sure why it didnt happen

[fa2fi]

You seem to forget ezy serve MLA ALC AGP BCN TFS FAO. There's more to ezy than BRS and BFS. EZY provide year round regular flights and don't practically shut down in the winter.

They also provide stable jobs and support many more in the supply chain. No 70% FD or six month cabin crew contracts. They contribute more to the airport and the local economy than LS.

Still, they have a nice shiny colourscheme therefore they must be better!!

[Skipness One Echo]

Yes but easyjet will have about 8 all year round, Jet2 have 12+ through the summer.
Sorry can someone confirm numbers based for 2014 for both please?

[heslop2006]

In terms of Jet2 and their city flights, can anyone tell me if the flights to such as Prague or Krakow for example do well?

If Jet2 were to try other cities, would they not look at adding cities in countries they already fly to, such as adding somewhere like Warsaw? Or is that too risky?

[EK77WNCL]

Skipness 1E,
As far as I know, NCL will have the following based:

Jet2: 4 737 300's, 2 757 200's
Easyjet: 2 A319's, 1 A320
Thomson: 3? 737 800's
Thomas Cook: 2 A321's, 1 A320
And some Eastern Js41's but I don't know about them.

[mmeteesside]

Atlantic ATP will take over the Stansted mail run from Jet2 as well so that should free up some capacity on the 737 fleet...

[Charlie98]

I believe, from what I saw in the Jet2 forum that we are getting a 3rd 752, a Titan aircraft.

[HH6702]

Jet 2 I heard was
4x 733 1 being used as a standby aircraft
3x 757 1 being leased by Titan

TCX I heard was
2x a321 from tcx new hopefully
1x a321 leased by someone

The least a320 I thought was at Cardiff this summer?

TOM
Should be 3x 738 based


2 x onur air flights planed
1 x syphax flight planned

Hopefully airport timetable will be our next week

[Boris1]

I am in agreement with a previous poster, Has Mr Claus brought everyone random route generation devices for Xmas (I'm surprised Santa hasn't been mentioned for any expansion from NCL with his sleigh, or is he moving all ops from the North Pole to NCL?)

Seriously, do people actually think long and hard about these ideas, or just have a flick through their logs and see 'Oh i need some Chinese 787s, they should start NCL?

Turkish 737s, Vueling A320s, China 787s, Wizz Air Bases, and El Al (again) have been mentioned. I think that if demand was as big as some claim it is (which it isnt) we'd have some variation of these routes serving NCL?

I think this topic needs a serious clean up, infact the entire site now does. This isn't a 'spotters dream forum' (pretty sure the rules state this), its mainly to keep up to date with NCL news (of which 'I think El Al should come to NCL because gateshead has some jewish people is NOT news).

It seems to be a few repeat offenders as well, shame how a once great topic and site is getting a bad reputation thanks to a few members.

[Captain_Adams]

'Cheers, some speculation for the new year. I've heard that Wizzair have considered NCL before and Vueling, so I heard, was almost confirmed but maybe not. Turkish are expanding very rapidly, SAS? Norway used to be strong, times change? Bergen Maybe? El AL, there are lots of orthodox Jews in Gateshead, the largest outside of Jerusalem and many will only fly EL Al so there is the possibility, but Newcastle might not be complient, I don't know.

My good God!

What on earth did you have for Christmas dinner? Too much brandy in that Christmas pudding I think.

Wizzair service - Where did you hear this?
Vueling service - Again any substance and where did you hear this?

You claim that many of them will ONLY fly EL AL. So how do they get to fly on EL AL if they dont serve Newcastle?

Yet again utter :mad: being displayed on this forum. I remember when this forum was a great place with useful information that had substance and was a place to visit for FACTUAL information that had CREDIBLE sources. This is just absolute :mad: what people are dreaming up and that won't happen.

Why are you destroying this forum with your rubbish and why are the mods allowing this?

Please can you take your rubbish away from this forum and post it on something like PlaneMad, where all the other clueless folk who have absolutely NO IDEA go and discuss their fantasies.

Mods - PLEASE do something about this tosh so that at least some sort of reputation remains intact.

[LiamNCL]

Thr TCX A321s will be brand new , they will have to have the sharkletts to operate a route such as SSH from NCL I would be very suprised if we got 2 older 321s

[fa2fi]

Just out if interest. Tomorrow has 9 EZY departures, Jet2 have ZERO!

[SWBKCB]

Just out if interest. Tomorrow has 9 EZY departures, Jet2 have ZERO!

Hardly a typical day...:ugh:

[flybar]

Just out if interest. Tomorrow has 9 EZY departures, Jet2 have ZERO!

Jet2 give their staff Christmas Eve & New Years Eve off!!

[fa2fi]

Great for business and passengers alike. Not!

[flybar]

Great for business and passengers alike. Not!

Presumably you don't agree with train companies not operating on certain days either. Staff are entitled to their days off just like the 'passengers'. Flights were never in the timetable.

[heslop2006]

@Captain Adams

As one of the so-called "clueless folk" I only mentioned what I'd heard from being employed as the translator in the store because I speak (CEFR: A2) Norwegian and a vast majority of the customers who I spoke to were from Norway or Denmark (they spoke to me in Danish, I replied in Norwegian) - they told me that it would be nice to see more options to fly to Newcastle from Norway/Denmark.

As reference to me asking about Jet2 and their city destinations before, yes I actually did think before I wrote it, because being a teacher of English to Speakers of Other Languages, I teach a lot of people from Poland who have to rely on Krakow even though their families come from Northern cities of Poland like Gdansk, Poznan, Bydgoszcz or even the capital Warszawa in the East ...

[JND6198]

I thought for S14, we were to keep 1x757 and 2 new a321's and the leased a320, when and if it returns, was to be based down at CWL?

[LiamNCL]

im certain TCX is 2x A321 & 1x A320

[yeo valley]

perhaps not the right thread. cwl is downgraded to a a320 next summer from a a321.
they will have a leased a320 from another airline to cover flts.
so you could be correct in saying that 2 a321 and 1 a320 next summer.

[arran91]

there is a leased a320 this summer for tcx from another airline the last remaining tcx a320 is to be based at cwl

[HH6702]

Well guys its been a fun year and what a good couple of days of silly posts on here.
Well this will be my last silly post of 2013

Turkish seem to be increasing Edinburgh to 11x weekly from end of march so no chance of seeing Turkish anytime soon!

Well time to send my good wishes to you all and I'm sorry for the silly posts over last few days I will try not to do it for 2014!!!!!!! NOT......
Only joking enjoy

[ash666]

My main wish for NCL in 2014 is that they have a word with Nexus to start earlier trains to get there for check-in for the 6am flights.
1 train to arrive at 4.30am would do it.

[_IRL_Flyer]

Newcastle - Antalya
Date Route Depart Arrive Flight No.
Tue 12 Aug 14 Newcastle to Antalya 15:55 22:15 TBA2509
Tue 19 Aug 14 Antalya to Newcastle 23:15 01:55 TBA2559

Onur Air will be operating this flight for Thomson as well as Olympic Holidays.

The flight details are already posted on this thread.

Tuesdays
Newcastle - Antalya 13:45 20:20
Antalya - Newcastle 10:00 12:45


Here is what the Thomson Airways flying schedule looks like from NCL for Summer 2014.

Sunday
06.35 Zante
07.30 Malaga
09.30 Larnaca
15.55 Paphos
16.55 Enfidha
21.40 Palma
Monday
07.15 Funchal
07.50 Dalaman
08.40 Corfu
17.55 Las Palmas
18.20 Ibiza
18.55 Bourgas
Tuesday
06.00 Palma
07.05 Reus
07.40 Alicante
13.55 Sharm el Sheikh
14.25 Zante
15.20 Palma (W leg from LBA)
15.45 Heraklion
Wednesday
06.00 Mahon
06.20 Salzburg
08.00 Verona
13.10 Paphos
13.50 Rhodes
15.15 Kos
Thursday
06.05 Palma
06.50 Kefalonia
07.00 Faro
14.05 Bodrum
15.55 Lanzarote
16.55 Dalaman
Friday
06.00 Ibiza
06.10 Naples
08.20 Corfu
13.55 Sharm el Sheikh
14.55 Tenerife
17.35 Dalaman
Saturday
06.00 Reus
06.30 Palma
07.50 Alicante
13.25 Verona
13.35 Ibiza
14.45 Palma
16.10 Rhodes
21.30 Alicante
22.50 Palma

[HH6702]

Thanks for that update. Which flight on a Saturday is a (w) or do we have 4 based on a Saturday?

[_IRL_Flyer]

NCL will will see 3 aircraft based on Saturdays thoughout the summer. I'm guessing Saturdays schedule will probably change over the coming months.

[GrahamK]

The afternooon Palma is a Jetairfly flight I believe

[_IRL_Flyer]

The afternooon Palma is a Jetairfly flight I believe

It's back to Thomson Airways. Jetairfly are operating an afternoon flight from Cork to Palma for Falcon Holidays and Thomson Holidays Ireland.

[HH6702]

When summer 2014 went on sale the plan was jetair were to do Palma on a Thursday and Saturday

However the Thursday now fits into the based Thomson plans
Saturday is now showing as Thomson airways

It would be nice to see jetair into NCL

[ash666]

Don't blame the messenger but I was talking today to someone who has a -named- friend (I know, I know...) who worked for Jet2 until a short time and and she, the friend, seems to think it is common knowledge that Jet2 are going to start NCL to Newark, tho' don't know when.

[HH6702]

Ha ha ha I love it....

Day 6 and already NEW YORK is back in the cards
Here's me thinking its April 1st!!!

Only joking

Is it not the April special trips that jet2 are running which they do in December ?

[ash666]

I was wondering if she had got confused with those.
Time will tell, but I'm not counting on it.

[LiamNCL]

Jet2 are the only carrier I could ever see breaking the usual holiday charter mould and heading west , but I dont think they have a fleet capable of such continuous trips yet and if they ever did then maybe notb being served by a US carrier could work for us .

IMO a US link is still a good 4 year offf

[fl dutchman]

Lots of reductions on the LHR route (The busiest route from NCL)
Currently 4x daily until mid Jan then 5x daily until 1 Feb before reverting to the normal 6x daily in Feb, then going back to 4 or 5 on weekdays in March.
First flight up from LHR is about 11ish throughout Jan. Not much good for business or those flying into LHR early morning.

[EK77WNCL]

Spicejetter, if you read the above properly you'd see that they figured out the misunderstanding that the friend is likely talking about the one off flight in April, hence it being common knowledge. It will be operated by one of their ETOPS 757's just like it has been for 3/4 years now.

[Captain_Adams]

Spicejetter.

Yes, looks like we are back to the same repetitive rubbish being posted and people like HH6702 getting all excited over it and coming up with all sorts of imaginary :mad:

It isn't funny HH6702, this USED to be a fantastic forum until silly idiots got involved and ruined it for the majority of us who actually take this seriously instead of reducing this forum to yours and EK77WNCL's fantasies.

Spicejetter, I believe it is EK77WNCL who was hell bent on LS getting 767s, those being the ex BA machines if i am not mistaken, or was it the ex Emirates A330s LS were getting?

EK77WNCL- it will be operated by an ETOPS 757? What else would it be operated with going over the pond?

[Boris1]

Well, I heard from my Friends, Uncles, Cousins, Brothers, Aunties, Sisters Dog that apparently Virgin are starting Orlando and Las Vegas from NCL on the A330....

Seriously, are we really starting the new year with pipe dreams? I knew the 'quiet period' was to good to be true.

[SWBKCB]

West Atlantic seem to have finally taken over the STN mail flight from Jet2.

[fa2fi]

Shame to see Jet2 lose the STN contract. What other routes do the QCs do? Will West Atlantic be using the ATP?

[HH6702]

With EI operating Dublin and seems to be well and they have added cork starting at end of march what are the chances of them adding more routes to Ireland?

Has NCL ever had links to
Knock
Kerry
Shannon
Galway

Could they add any of the above are they too close to the other airports already served?

Would EI start BFS from NCL taking on flybe and easyjet?

[SWBKCB]

RYR operated Shannon for a short time. Do EIR have routes out of the others to any UK regional airports?

[LAX_LHR]

Isn't Galway now closed to commercial traffic?

In terms of those airports to the UK, Are Arran did operate GWY-MAN and EIr did operate NOC-BHX. NOC-MAN/BHX is now in the care of Flybe.

EIr operate 3 daily SNN-MAN and 2 daily SNN-BHX.

[HH6702]

I forgot about Ryanair doing Shannon it must have been very short

EIR have the right size aircraft to make these routes work.
Was just wondering if Shannon was too close to Cork.

If EIR were too move into BFS also I think they would make a good go at ncl.
As the fares that are being charged with flybe and easyjet are high when I've been looking in the past

[fa2fi]

What benefit could EIR have for the airline itself, other airlines on the route and passengers? The cities are linked quite happily as they are with low fare, reliable all jet flights. I honestly can't see what the benefit of EIR flying the route, other than a spotters logbook.

And on the subject over the last few years EI have come and gone several times on the DUB route yet U2 and BE have provided constant service for over a decade. I don't know when you were looking for but EZY/BE provide good value fares if booked in time. EIR, with its high cost base cannot compete profitably.

[_IRL_Flyer]

HH6702, SNN is approx 1hr 45 mins away from ORK.

If EIR were to start ops from Belfast. They would more than likely use BHD as that's were EI operate from.

[Captain_Adams]

HH6702

In you world EIN have the 'right' size aircraft to work, but are you not forgetting one thing?

DEMAND?

Lets bang an ATR42 NCL-KIR, apparently it's the right size of aircraft for this route to work, but we wont get any passengers on it.

Go figure.

[crewmeal]

Sadly this forum has degenerated into a spotters/pipe dream wishlist with very very few comments that are worth reading. The childish immature attitude of certain contributors spoils it for the rest who in the end will not bother contributing. Even worse there are those who keep repeating pipe dreams just to deliberately annoy and wind up others.

[andrewmcharlton]

There is just no sustained demand to other destinations in Ireland.

Shannon would only work if, like many have said before, it tied in with a westbound transatlantic and could take advantage of the pre-clearance of customs. If they won't do it with Dublin you've little or no hope of Shannon.

Galway is a shed and last time I flew in there there were only Aer Arran flights to Luton, Manchester and Newcastle. Incidentally, the flight arrivals board was a Powerpoint slide which was quite amusing with some of the sound effects and swizzy animations they used for a lark one day to pass the inane sense of boredom.

[Jamesair]

I'm sure, a few years ago Aer Arran operated for a short period NCL - Galway maybe someone else can confirm this.

[_IRL_Flyer]

I'm sure, a few years ago Aer Arran operated for a short period NCL - Galway maybe someone else can confirm this.

RE did operate Galway to Newcastle for a short period of time. RE announced GWY - NCL during the end of 2006 and it started during Summer 2007. It was by dropped by 2008 I think.

[Jamesair]

The Summer 2014 timetable is now available on the airport website

[EK77WNCL]

Finally! Hahaha

[GrahamK]

And the mystery of the saturday afternoon TOM Palma has been solved, it's replacing the 2nd Salzburg flight

[j636]

EI add a third daily NCL-DUB on Thursdays and Fridays for the summer.

[pallan]

Does this indicate no BA services on Saturdays!? :confused::confused:

[fl dutchman]

If it does its wrong. BA booking system shows 4 rotations on Sats in Summer.

[Jamesair]

It also indicates Newquay as daily, although it is just weekly on Saturdays

[pallan]

If it does its wrong. BA booking system shows 4 rotations on Sats in Summer.

Thats what I thought - just tried to do a dummy booking on BA.com and the flights are there so just a mistake by Newcastle by the looks of it!

[G-TYNE]

I think you're looking at the above line for LGW which doesn't operate Saturdays. The LHR one shows 7 days per week and has done all day.

[Jamesair]

The other thing I noticed in the timetable was that there was no mention of the Isle of Man.....is this just an error?

[10 DME ARC]

I am sorry but I saw IOM and LHR Saturday ops????

[Jamesair]

How strange, you are correct of course. I printed a copy and the copy seems to have missed the last few lines on some pages, including IOM and some PMI flights...I was quoting from the copy. I have now checked it against the web page. :\

[Jamesair]

Ryanair seems to have a reduced presence at NCL this summer with Dublin reduced to 1 daily (probably because of Aer Lingus Regional) and Genoa 3 weekly, down from 4 last year.

[GAXLN]

Ryanair cuts appear to be quite small compared with some other UK airports. Dublin when I last looked was July and August only for once daily.

[GrahamK]

Gerona seems to still be 4 x weekly.

[EK77WNCL]

I wouldn't mind seeing FR leave the DUB route because it much further secures EI and hopefully we could see 21x weekly and maybe 22-23 weekly from them. Gerona is a popular route and I hope maybe they would consider starting some others, but who knows. I really think there is a business case for Eastern Europe/Poland etc from Newcastle and Ryanair/Wizzair are the people to do that. It just depends who gets there first IMO.

[POL1W]

Gerona definitely dropped to 3 weekly Tue, Thu and Sat.

[Logohu]

I wouldn't mind seeing FR leave the DUB route because it much further secures EI and hopefully we could see 21x weekly and maybe 22-23 weekly from them.

Or an alternative viewpoint, the number of EI flights to NCL could stay the same, accompanied by a hefty increase in airfares to boost their bottom line. Be careful what you wish for....

I am sure the people who actually use the NCL to DUB route regularly would prefer to see the current competitive situation maintained.

[EK77WNCL]

Yeah, it's allright at the minute and I'm glad to see that FR hasn't done their usual and gone 3-4 daily with fares for £10 to get rid of EI. I must admit it all seems to have slotted together quite nicely as yet.


It may be a bit early yet, but now is about the time the monthly pax figures come out, I'd be interested to see how NCL has done for December and the whole of 2013. IIRC we were looking at about 4.6-4.7 million???

[GAXLN]

Well, with 12 month rolling numbers at the end of November at 4.405m, 4.6m is impossible. I would expect c5% growth for December given the weather was OK apart from the winds so that probably takes the annual figure to c4.415m which would be modest growth of just over 1% for the year. I think this year will be interesting as there look to be some ups and downs but hopefully overall growth of c4% could then see 4.6m achieved. Newcastle could then be experiencing about average UK regional airport growth levels in 2014. There will be some better, for sure, but also likely to be some who see a decline in 2014 in passenger numbers.

[SWBKCB]

G-AXLN - just wondering where you think a 4% increase is coming from if 2013 is about 1%. Most services seem to be saying about the same, so it can only be organic growth on the existing routes?

[GAXLN]

SWBKCB - I have rather simplistically taken October +1%, November +3% and December (my estimate) +5% and believe average growth of 4% in 2014 is possible if you consider some of the positives, e.g. extra easyjet volume on Gatwick, Aer Lingus on Dublin, bit more Thomson flying, bit less Thomas Cook capacity (321 i/l 757), still scope to grow Emirates through the year, economic growth boosting other scheduled volumes plus Brussels coming back, bit less jet2.com due A320 replaced by 737-300 but few more flights over season, bit less Ryanair, etc. +4% looks to be potentially achievable. That's not huge growth but better than some will experience I reckon. The important thing is that it is growth at a sustainable level. Can you see MME achieving this?

[Jamesair]

The December stats will be published by the CAA on the 15th January, then all will be revealed.

It's a pity they don't show which airline carried which amount of pax on shared routes, e.g. Dublin, Amsterdam and Alicante.

However we do have some December 2013 pax stats from the airport. Dec figures shown with Dec 2012 in brackets.

Domestic 92,090 (91,740)
I.T. 26,310 (26,434)
International 126,517 (115,285)
Other 4,333 (4,664)

TOTAL 249,250 (238,123)

Taking away the "other" figures the passenger increase is 4.91% in the comparable months.

If we are looking at scheduled services only, the comparable increase is 5.59%. with increases in both domestic and International pax.

[EK77WNCL]

How does it mean IT and other? That's always intrigued me, does that mean like passengers at Samsons and that? It sounds like a lot, but I don't know how many business jets they get in every day.

[GrahamK]

IT is charters ie TOM and TCX. Both of whom are offering substantially less seats from NCL than previous years

[JonnyH]

G-EZBT has gone tech for EZY tonight. It looks like they'll either be using the AC from BFS rotation later on or they'll be sending one up from LGW. Nice 4 hour delay to AMS either way!

EDIT: G-EZIF has came up from LGW. Don't know why they didn't just wait 20/30 mins for the returning BFS/BRS flights.

[Jamesair]

and Others, I would imagine includes such as football charters, ad hoc pax charters, business planes and anything which is not an Inclusive Tour (IT).

[EK77WNCL]

Thank you very much for the explanation, greatly appreciated.

[HH6702]

Jonnyh

It would be simple to just to wait that 30mins for the BFS/brs plane to arrive however the problem is crew.

The crew will not work a further 3+hrs to Amsterdam and back and they may have already worked 10+ before as the crew may have worked say ncl-alc-ncl-brs
They may be close to being out of hrs or be timed out for tomorrow working causing further delay

It's easier for the company to use the spare crew and aircraft at which time they were using gatwick crew

[HH6702]

Website has been updated again

[GrahamK]

So Livingston are now operating the saturday Verona

[Travel Agent]

Does anyone know if BMIR have plans to offer connections with SN at Brussels? I heard a rumour a while back that they were in talks but nothing appears to of happened...

[Kev 1]

Slight change to their schedules as of Monday this week, seeing a 18% increase in seat capacity on Aberdeen (though overall reduction of flights to 4/day) and an increase of 40% seat capacity on Stavanger. Main change is the replacement of a JS41 aircraft with the larger Embraer 145. New departure times given below:

Aberdeen
Mon-Thur 06:45 E145
Fri 07:20 E145
Mon 09:00 E145
Mon-Fri 10:00 JS41
Tue 14:15 JS41
Wed 14:15 E145
Fri 14:40 E145
Thu 16:05 E145
Mon, Tue & Fri 17:45 E145
Wed-Thur 18:30 E145
Sun 20:35 SB20

Stavanger
Wed-Thur 09:05 E145
Mon-Tue 10:00 E145

Both Birmingham & Cardiff schedules remain as they were (both 2 daily Mon-Fri, with 1 daily Cardiff on Sunday)

Cheers

[GrahamK]

Selected December Provisional Stats:

Gatwick 6154 +11%
Heathrow 38227 -4%
Aberdeen 1862 -1%
Belfast City 2865 +15%
Belfast Int 16460 +2%
Birmingham 408 -28%
Bristol 14973 +5%
Cardiff 797 No change
Exeter 2599 -10%
Southampton 6883 +8%

Copenhagen 1156
Paris CDG 11622 -4%
Dusseldorf 2931 -1%
Dublin 13713 +38%
Amsterdam 30287 +6%
Stavanger 1644 -7%
Dubai 17896 +20%


12 months rolling, 4.4m pax +1.4%

[HH6702]

So good passenger figures there.

[Jamesair]

and month on month up 4.7%.

Aer Lingus serving Dublin increased pax numbers by 38% and Dubai still topping 17,000 monthly up 20%

[GrahamK]

I make the average DXB load as 70% remembering that they did not operate Xmas day, so still a bit to grow into, but I'm sure it will keep growing :ok:

[HH6702]

Aer Lingus and the Emirates will be the ones to watch over next few months.

Emirates it would be nice if this time next year NCL were hitting 85% full per month.

Interesting over next few months will be eastern airways to Aberdeen and stavanger with them not using the bigger aircraft.

Also bmir when they start in march

[OltonPete]

GrahamK

Slightly better in fact - 72.5%

46 x 428 seats
12 x 354 seats
2 x 360 seats

Total 24656

Configs from the EKsource and aircraft from libhomeradar.

Pete

[GrahamK]

Hi OltonPete

I went for the 70% as the route is sold as a 427 seater 77W, although I believe there was a couple of 442 seat 77Ws used. For a market the size of NCL, I think EK will be satisfied, depending on how good business class is selling :ok:

[OltonPete]

GrahamK

The EK Source shows all two class aircraft are now 42 / 386.

Also heard this from handlers at BHX.

Seems to be in the right direction and it is still early days as the 77W.



Pete

[Falcon900LX]

Doing the figures for Emirates, it's impossible to have this as an average. obviously on different days there would be more pax less pax ect.. so take this as an average.

So, you have the Zero fuel weight of a 77W 237,000kgs or so

17000 pax / 28 days = 607 pax total each day inb/out

Half the figure.

303.

average passenger weight is what 80kgs?

80 x 303 = 24240kgs

also

50kgs of baggage avg per passenger

50 x 303 = 15100kgs

fuel
Avg fuel burn per hour is 8100kgs

an average of a 8 hour flight = 64800kgs

So, to add up, with the basics. Not including catering... Anything else but pax, fuel and aircraft weight.

we have a grand total of

341,140kgs.


Max take off weight of a 77W is 340,000 - 350,000kgs.

That uses at least 10000ft of runway. Newcastle has 7600ft.

[EK77WNCL]

That's some nice maths there, however one critical point you've missed is that they do actually do that every day... So something must have gone wrong somewhere.

When I flew on the first scheduled flight for the 75th in 2010, there were 419 passengers onboard and I don't remember crashing during takeoff.

Perhaps you should have used the OEW of the 77W which is 167800kg.

Either that or the 77W in fact has amazing takeoff performance, which it does. And the Baggage for the average pax is probably going to be about 30-35, accounting for families sharing cases, those travelling without baggage etc. Total allowance is Y - 37kg, J - 47kg.

[G-TYNE]

ZFW includes passengers and baggage etc so changes each flight and is not a constant figure. As mentioned, you need OEW.

[vectisman]

I am all for people supporting their local airport and discussing developments.
However this almost obsessive analysing of the monthly Newcastle -Dubai figures is becoming repetitive and tedious.
Emirates fly to Newcastle daily and I expect will continue to do so as long as the route is profitable, now move on!!




V.

[GrahamK]

If it helps, the CDG worked out as 83% :E

Anyhow, is Newcastle such a low yielding place that easyJet only have 2 a/c active on a thursday (the 320 only done an evening BFS)? And et2 with no flights whatsoever?

Could the airport mgt lower fees during the winter to encourage operators to utilise their a/c better?

And any further news on free wifi within departures?

[AviationNE]

And when analysed it's analysed incorrectly. Using incorrect working. Midweek is quiet everywhere for every airline that have sun destinations not just jet2 and easyjet

[Boris1]

Oh my good god.

I see the 'EK Massive' have shown up again, blimey its been a while, what is it now, a few days!!

WHY oh WHY do some (you know who you are) go out of their way to say 'well, it has EXACTLY THIS AMOUNT OF PASSENGERS ON EVERY DAY!!

It doesn't go out with a full load every day, and we all know this. What is it with the 'worshipping' of this flight, and the constant mentioning of the 75th anniversary flight that had 419 people on? So, I say again, can this once good site/topic, get back to posting valuable news/info, not constant Emirates stats analysis, posting of 'rumours' and dreams?

Did you know that the 75th Anniversary flight had 419 people on it?!?.....

[EK77WNCL]

I'm sorry Boris but I was making a point that the aircraft can make it with a full load stating that there must be a mistake in the calculations.

Anyway, there's :mad: all else to talk about at NCL

[CabinCrewe]

if thats all there is then dont post until theres something of significance. Agree its endless and tedious, and appears unique to NCL thread...

[G-TYNE]

The stream of posts targeting people who post anything regarding EK35/36 are just as bad as the original posts.

No one is forced to read posts regarding Emirates, if it annoys you so much; don't read this thread!

[HH6702]

Well said G-TYNE!!!

I think that EVERYONE should be able to post what they want and when they want....
Doesn't matter if it is fact, rumours or suggestions of what works or wouldn't work.

I for ONE like to see jamesairs posting of his month figures and hope he continues to do so!!! He spends a lot of time getting this info for us all.

As it had been stated if you don't like what is posted then basically TOUGH LUCK don't read it and move on!! Replying is just going to get other peoples back up and will post even more stupid posts just to make others angry!!!


So what can I post tomorrow ?? Lol

[Captain_Adams]

G-TYNE.

Some people actually come onto this forum looking for factual information etc instead they come here and to find themselves bitterly disappointed to see that all it is, is streams of pointless rubbish all focused around ONE topic, that being Emirates.

It's only recently though that this has started to happen and it is a dreadful shame to say the least, because believe it or not this forum used to be a place to come where you would get good information and it was a pleasure reading through posts. Now all you are faced with is absolute rubbish, pipe dreams and people's fantasies.

Same applies, don't like people's views - don't read them.

[CaptainDoony]

Guys, some of us need to just calm down a little bit. The Emirates service is bound to be a hot topic for discussion given the stature of EK and should really be expected to be mentioned more often in the thread than Eastern's BHX for example.

That said I do feel there is too many 'what if...?' posts and fantasy dreams about A380's and multiple daily services which could be easily avoided if the posters took a minute to read before they post.

Some members also come across to me as rather rude and condescending. Not every post is going to interest you and I don't think posting monthly passenger figures is worthy of a bollocking to the OP, so maybe just hit the back button occasionally if it doesn't interest you.

I accept that some posts are nonsense i.e. the suggestion a few post back that Emirates flight ops don't know what they're doing but Capt. Adams every time you post on here it seems to be an attack on EK77WNCL, often for very pernickety reasons IMO. I do wonder if he'd receive the same condescending posts if he didn't display his age? Very naive if you think more than 20% of posters on AA&R are pros.

Out.

[Captain_Adams]

HH6702.

Not disputing about Jamesair's figures - I enjoy reading them too as this is FACTUAL information.

The point I am making is that people like yourself are bringing this forum down with rubbish that you are dreaming up. Yes it's all good that the Summer 2014 charter schedule is now on the airport's website, well done you posted something factual for a change.

Just remind yourself what the first 'P' for in Pprune translates into. Something which is severely lacking in the majority of yours and a few others posts.

[Boris1]

Look at the first few pages of this thread. FACTUAL information. EZY schedules, based aircraft news, figures etc. No 'Well, i think we need daily 737s to Tel Aviv' or 'Emirates should send us an this and that'.

With regards to the poster who mentioned Eastern Jetstreams, I'd much rather see this, than 'Well, i think Emirates flights have 400 passengers on each day, and its their best route to the UK, and they are thinking of starting a New York flight from NCL'...

This is a thread about NCL NEWS etc. A comprehensive low down on what airlines a, what can only be described as an over enthusiastic plane spotter, wants to see, is NOT news.

[Jamesair]

Thank you guys for your support, I try to bring the monthly stats to life with a few comments on trends because I think people will be interested in the progress their airport is making. Recently GrahamK has beaten me to it in posting the individual route figures....thanks Graham..for saving me some typing.

[CaptainDoony]

Boris,

Pretty much in total agreement with your post there and mine was more directed at the attitude of a certain poster.

However, the Emirates DXB service is likely to remain the most interesting topic for discussion to many posters due to it being the only scheduled long haul route, it being Emirates, biggest aircraft - whatever.

---

Not a personal attack here EK777W/HH6702 but you guys should maybe consider restricting posts, especially with regards to Emirates, to factual information i.e. monthly passenger figures, confirmed frequency changes, long term capacity changes. It seems clear that posting wish lists or ideas riles many of the regulars on here so why continue posting very similar material?

You wouldn't ask someone a question in person, not get a desired answer, and just continue asking them every 5 minutes until they changed their mind. That said I do feel that some posters have been a little harsh berating you to such an extent.

[PPRuNe Pop]

The bickering going on in this thread is not acceptable. Please get back to normal debate and stop the rot.

I will watch closely the attitude of some and their apparent attempts to dictate.

I have deleted one post and there may be more.

PPP

[fjencl]

Any news from BMIregional yet about them adding another route into there daily flying program, when the aircraft returns from BRU and sits on the ground for several hours before doing the evening rotation back to BRU.

[A300BOY]

That is what they did at Leeds for years so it was no wonder that the base became unprofitable. I know it technically is a new company but they seem to follow the old companies ways.

[Boris1]

So in other words, those who don't agree with idol dreaming? Is anything being done to combat posts such as 'There is demand for such and such' that aren;t backed up with credible sources and/or evidence?

[Jamesair]

I'm pretty certain that the airport itself has published a "wish-list" of destinations it would like to see operated at some time in the future. Some airports, London City is an example, allows customers to suggest possible future routes, maybe NCL should adopt a similar approach.

[EK77WNCL]

BM said that they were definately looking at other routes, they did/do BRS-BRU-BRS-FRA-BRS-BRU-BRS so people were thinking that could be a possibility but without 1. A morning/evening flight and 2. Interlining, I couldn't see it going down too well at NCL. As has been seen by the reduction of DUS to 1 daily... Granted, the times for DUS are even worse than a FRA flight would be.

[JonnyH]

Was LCY a profitable route? How were the loads?

I'd quite like to see that route back.

[SWBKCB]

Was LCY a profitable route? How were the loads?

Eastern dropped it and nobody else has picked it up - bit of a clue there!

[SWBKCB]

From last Monday's Chronicle:

New office blocks for airport land

A major development deal has been signed to bring new office space to Newcastle Airport.

Bosses at Newcastle International Airport and property group UK Land Estates have signed a 10-year development agreement for sites on the south side of the airport.

Already, they have secured provisional council support to grant planning permission for a 200,000sqft business park next to the Callerton Metro station.

The old, restrictive use condition has been removed to make it available to all users. There will be a further application for 400,000sqft of industrial and warehouse space next to the new runway apron.

Tim Witty, director in charge of the airport sites, said: “These developments will help transform the airport and complement the exciting activities there, in particular the growing network of destinations now serviced from the regional hub.”

It comes after the airport set out ambitious plans to expand with hundreds of new jobs over the next decade.

[Jamesair]

re LCY

The highest monthly pax figure Eastern achieved was 1313 in October 2006, I also believe that LCY made the charges pretty high with the intention of discouraging small aircraft from using valuable slots (I think they used a J41) that the whole operation became uneconomical and was discontinued in Jan 2007.

I'm sure someone can confirm the above

[JonnyH]

Eastern probably overpriced the route though but perhaps if what you're saying is true that might be why! It would be nice to see BA Cityflyer have some daily weekday flights. Very unlikely however.

Also, good to see that BA have re-added the 2010 flight to LHR back on the schedule after having a month or so without it.

[LiamNCL]

G-OBYG 767 operating TOM1605 from Salzburg tonight

[ash666]

It's recording as a Man-NCL flight!

[LiamNCL]

Happens often on FR24 where a previous departure still shows ! Anyone know why a 767 is operating it ?

[JonnyH]

Probably a higher load. It is ski season after all.

[nclops]

Nothing to do with pax loads, It was to recover the programme. The outbound to SZG diverted to MUC due to weather. As the A/C normally does NCL-SZG-MAN-SZG-NCL the 763 operated MAN-SZG-NCL to reduce the delay while the 738 waited for the MAN passengers to be coached to MUC.

[Jamesair]

P & O cruises have announced that they will run charter flights to connect with 16 sailing of their "Ventura" ship from 7 regional airport, including NCL...flights will go alternative weeks to either Venice or Genoa.

The NCL flights (3) seem to be to Genoa on 16th April, 14th May and 1st Oct, returning from Genoa 14 days later in each case.

[G-TYNE]

Have Aegean packed in the summer Heraklion charter for Olympic Holidays?

[LiamNCL]

I believe so yes , It was operated by air baltic 757 most of last summer

[HH6702]

Aegean airlines were never planned to operate for this summer.

Last summer Olympic holidays chartered them just before the season started.
Not sure what the loads were but they mustn't have been good enough or they can't get the right aircraft for this summer

[fl dutchman]

Not sure if its been mentioned on here before, however it looks like the based A321s will be the older aircraft not the new ones with the sharklets. Thats the plan at the moment, dont think it will change.

[LiamNCL]

I thought the whole point of switching from 757s now was because the new A321s ? The SSH flights are already resitricted because of performace ? Seems stupid IMO that NCL has been switched this Summer

[CabinCrewe]

Im sure its done for important logistical reasons and not to please local spotters

[LiamNCL]

im not a local spotter lol im on TCX6536 On 1st Oct I was looking forward to a new aircraft looks like an old 321 will have to do if it makes it there

[G-TYNE]

The capacity reduction has led to a price increase from TCX as happened when TOM did it last year. Sadly as a result we will be flying from MAN this year.

Will be interesting to see whether this prompts Jet2 or Easyjet to expand further into Greece/Turkey.

[LiamNCL]

The good people of the North East subsidising a company for reducing capacity and getting other bases handed down A321s ? Brilliant

[Daily Dalaman Dave]

Not sure where you got that info but it's incorrect. The plan is to have the new aircraft in NCL from the summer onwards.

Liam, that is a very odd statement. I wasn't aware that people subsidised a company by booking to go on holiday with them? As the planes are coming to NCL does that mean that MAN/LGW pax are paying for the pleasure of 200+ Geordies flying on brand new planes?

How can the capacity not be reduced when changing to a smaller aircraft? What else would you suggest, getting 4 based aircraft so they can charge less for holidays? Also worth noting that moving from 235 seat 757s to 220 seat 321s isn't really much of a cut in capacity anyway.

[arran91]

I have also been told the tcx plan if for 2 new a321 for 2014 and an a320 but unsure where this is coming from

[arran91]

according to ncl timetable there are mexico flights direct with dreamliner

[fl dutchman]

Daily Dalman Dave, I really hope your correct and I am wrong.

The Seat maps for the NCL flights on the TCX booking system show 220 seat A321s and 180 seat A320s from NCL in the summer.
The new A321s have I think 216 or so seats. Some of the extra legroom/exit seats are in different rows in the new aircraft vs the old one. I think there are some other differences also.
So if they are using the new A321s why are they allocating seats now using the old map. Surely they will know now where the new A321s are going.
If it does change quite a few passengers will have to be notified of the changes to their seat numbers.

[LiamNCL]

There will surely be perfomance problems with the old A321s ?

[Daily Dalaman Dave]

I've got no idea what is on the booking system etc, but I'm pretty sure the new planes are 220 seats. Either way they're definitely coming no matter what the booking system says at the minute! :ok:

[LiamNCL]

Hopefully you are right and we get some new equipment

[Jamesair]

I notice that the Eastern service to Birmingham is now operated on their behalf by AIS Airlines with J32 a/c.

[fl dutchman]

According to Thomas Cook they will have 215 seats.

Do a google search for Thomas Cook A321 and there is a link to the TCX press office. (Link dosent work on here.)

Of course they might have changed it by Summer 2014. Or already have done so.

[JonnyH]

Can't believe people are moaning about a change of aircraft meaning 15/20 less seats.

At a time where the airport growth isn't really increasing we should be content with what we have got. We have had quite a large capacity increase with the presence of Jet2 in recent years. Maybe the competition isn't as "positive" as some people think, it's not like the airport is having a huge increase in passenger numbers after all.

TCX have to be cautious.

[LiamNCL]

we will not know until the A321s appear up here to know wether they are new

[_IRL_Flyer]

There will surely be perfomance problems with the old A321s ?

The oldest TCX A321 aircraft perform very well.

They usually operate direct flights from EMA-Egypt during the winter for example and they do very well. G-TCDA is usually the aircraft the operates these flights because it has ATC.

(EMA-SSH isn't being operated by TCX this winter due to the problems Egypt had last year which resulted in a number of flights being dropped. TCX's flight from EMA-HRG does resume next month and will operate until the end of April.)

[SWBKCB]

I notice that the Eastern service to Birmingham is now operated on their behalf by AIS Airlines with J32 a/c.

Seems to be Eastern J41's today?

[EK77WNCL]

However EMA has a much longer runway than ours, and no hill at the end...

Definately hoping for the new ones personally, bring them back into the game.

[LiamNCL]

Newcastles runway seems to be the issue with A321s as previously said it will have to operate with reduced PAX to SSH

im almost certain we will have 2 new A321's for the Summer !

Is any other TCX base switching from 757s to 321s this summer ?

[nclops]

Quote:
I notice that the Eastern service to Birmingham is now operated on their behalf by AIS Airlines with J32 a/c.


It will be operated by AIS Airlines from 3rd Feb.

[fa2fi]

Anyone know the reasoning for getting AIS Airlines to operate BHX? Is it to free aircraft for other new routes/frequencies.

[EK77WNCL]

Exeter maybe? Hope so.

[Jamesair]

AIS Airlines is a Dutch operator based at Lelystad Airport in the Netherlands.

[fa2fi]

I never heard of them but they have a video on YouTube which explains a little bit about them. I can't see the set up being particularly profitable. The plane and crew will spend a lot of the day on the ground. Can't be much fun if it's a split shift. Unless it is going to fly on from BHX or operate more routes fro, NCL.

[JonnyH]

What's the purpose of BA7031 tomorrow night?

Operated by an E90 - fear of flying flight?

[121decimal375]

Northern lights flight?

[nclops]

Correct, it's a northern lights flight. A/C positions in from and back to EDI.

[HH6702]

Airport timetable updated again

[c52]

I dare say this has been asked and answered already, but if you look at NCL on Google Earth, there's a perfectly plausible Emirates a/c surrounded by a dozen vehicles, and three dubious-looking images of other, deserted, airliners. If you look at these from the right, you can see one side of the a/c, and from the left, the other side.

Why add extra planes?

[Skipness One Echo]

One Emirates B77W, one ERJ145 on the remotes, a stored B737 and Jet Provost and some light aircraft. Taken at the worst time when the based fleet is off making money.

[c52]

Do you not have two fake Easyjets and a Th Cook at the terminal, and another Th Cook on the runway?

[HH6702]

Not to cause trouble but Does it matter what it looks like on google?

[Skipness One Echo]

Do you not have two fake Easyjets and a Th Cook at the terminal, and another Th Cook on the runway?
Not on the iPhone version, no.

[c52]

I rely on Google Earth as the only way I know to find out whether a road has a footpath or not. I'm sure other people rely on it for other things. If they allow commercial interests to change their photos, it stops being factual and starts being advertising.

I could have a hotel surrounded by building sites and on Google Earth cause beautiful parkland to appear. That would mislead all my guests. Or I could move it closer to the sea.

Bing has a number of skeleton aircraft which, on zooming in, either disappear or in one case, turn into a real plane. Very odd.

[deecie]

Images change on Google Maps as you zoom in as it changes from a satellite photo to an aerial one.

[fa2fi]

There's one thing that motivates google, that's money and money alone. If businesses are prepared to pay to have things altered then google will allow it.

A good example; the hotel with the building site next door. Surely it'll put people off. So pay google to cover it up. Isn't it google who's motto is "don't be evil"?

[Skipness One Echo]

Bing has a number of skeleton aircraft which, on zooming in, either disappear or in one case, turn into a real plane. Very odd.
The image is not all taken at once, the time period can change as you zoom in, hence an aircraft may appear then vanish. It's quite clever.
When did google start offering to change the view for money? Link?

[fa2fi]

It'll be their next product on offer no doubt! It'll make millions. Especially for hoteliers. Might suggest it to them