NEWCASTLE - 8

[Jamesair]

It was a route that carried very good pax numbers in the past. This brings Flybe more or less back to the size of operation it had before the cutback.

Dep.. NCL... 0845.... Arr... Ncl....1145... M- F/Sa......30/3 - 3/9/15

Dep.. NCL... 1420.... arr... Ncl....1705... M - F/Su.....29/3 - 3/9/15

NB both flights originate at NCL

[Jamesair]

United to EWR and a STN destination were both shown on Wikipedia NCL very briefly a couple of months ago before being hastily deleted.

[LiamNCL]

I remember seeing United to Newark on wiki now you mention it

[Jamesair]

I saw STN myself, just on for one morning or afternoon

[mad_rich]

I have to admit, STN on Flybe is a bit out of leftfield! Let's hope they can make a go of it, and hopefully get 3 rotations a day.

I always thought LGW might do better than STN because its catchment area (South London & Sussex/ Surrey) benefits much more from plane vs train than STN's does. Doesn't seem that way though.

So we've now had BA, Jet2, Flybe and Easy to LGW. Go, Easy and now Flybe to STN. I can't remember if we had anything to Gatwick after BA pulled out of the route, or was there a gap before Jet2 came on?

-

It'll be a pain getting to see my sister in Sussex now :-(

[EK77WNCL]

The worst bit for NCL is that BA, BE and EZY all do/did a decent trade to LGW and Go/EZY did well to STN. There should have been no reason for them to leave, apart from slightly more profitable utilisation of the aircraft elsewhere (EZY), LGW increasing fees (BE) and I don't know why BA left

[SWBKCB]

Gill also operated STN. From the NIA press release, interesting that this isn't being pushed mainly as a London service:

Paul Simmons, Flybe’s Chief Commercial Officer, said: "We are pleased to launch three new routes to/ from London Stansted. Bolstering regional connectivity is our number one aim at Flybe ...welcoming passengers...who are seeking easy access to Hertfordshire, Essex and London."

Chris Sanders, Aviation Development Director at Newcastle International Airport, said: ...The importance of good regional connectivity for the North East cannot be understated. Flybe’s new service will lead to significantly easier and quicker journeys to the area around Stansted which includes parts of Norfolk and Hertfordshire as well as all of Suffolk, Essex and Cambridgeshire. There is the added bonus that Stansted is well connected to Greater London by excellent rail and by coach links.

[Skipness One Echo]

BA left as the B733s and B735s were withdrawn from what had been a CityFlyer Express operation on ATRs and RJ100s. They no longer flew an aircraft type best suited to the route.

Also the hub at LGW was closed so the route became wholly point to point after the first wave as all remaining long haul had departed, as you said, the remaining aircraft were deployed to routes elsewhere, where Avios holders could burn miles and therefore stay loyal to more profitable BA routes elsewhere.

[highwideandugly]

As a general fan of all ne airports...are the Newcastle management team doing anything to pick up the slack and lost business from prestwick? I know newcastle used to handle a lot of delivery and transit flights some years ago.maybe it's time to court the transit traffic from prestwick as they seem to be in disarray? The local handling agents have been bought out by the airport apparently.
24 hours unlimited ops must appeal to a lot of the transit customers???

[SWBKCB]

My understanding is there's not a lot of money in it - most of it is in the fuel and the delivery lads like a bargain...

Easier money to be made out of King Air's and Citation's.

[Jamesair]

Announcement today.....Fred Olsen Cruises announced regional flight departures for 4 of its Far Eastern cruises, three of which involve NCL on 14/2, 1/3 and 16/3/15. I have no further details.

[fl dutchman]

I see the NCL-LHR goes to 7 daily from next week for a while ( 8 on Mondays ). Slight variation at weekends.

[tigertanaka]

7 a day is fantastic but the first departure on the winter timetable is too late at 07:45, with the MCT you cant get a flight departing LHR until 10:05.

KLM have a year round 05:55 departure which opens up more possibilities if you are connecting short haul in Europe and have an afternoon meeting.

[EK77WNCL]

I should assume Fred Olsen will probably be using EK

[Jamesair]

You could be right but oddly enough the only one of the four cruises that starts in Dubai excludes NCL.

[skyman771]

maybe it's time to court the transit traffic from Prestwick as they seem to be in disarray?
Can't see this being big business for Prestwick these days if you exclude the military then isn't Prestwick becoming redundant, with such business now being spread more randomly dependent on range of individual aircraft. You certainly wouldn't attract very small aircraft which would in most cases be looking to put down as soon as landfall when eastbound & westbound would wish to depart as far west as possible to maximise their options on limited range.

[canberra97]

That is because NCL do NOT operate or call at Dubai, they do not operated at in the middle or far east.

[SWBKCB]

Can somebody translate?

[EK77WNCL]

I think he means that Newcastle is a static airport, one that which does not travel to the middle or far east... Or:

Quote: That is because NCL do NOT operate or call at Dubai, they do not operated at in the middle or far east.

Translation: That is because NCL does not have a service to Dubai, there are no flights to the middle or far east.

Fact: At 13:10 tomorrow, EK36 will leave Newcastle for the 804th time on a 777 (2631st in total), it will arrive in Dubai around midnight. This will then occur on 17th November, 18th November, 19th November... etc. Until operation ceases on 24th December 2014. However on the 26th December, another 777 300ER will arrive on the cold December morning to take another couple of hundred paying passengers over to the desert, courtesy of Emirates airline.

[nclops]

Was he not referencing NCL - Norweigan Cruise Line?? Obviously hasn't realised he was on the NCL - Newcastle Airport thread!

[GrahamK]

nclops, that's what I was thinking too :ok:

[Boris1]

Pretty sure he was referring to the cruise line. You could have just asked him instead of reeling off a rant about EK (again)

[EK77WNCL]

But the question was referring to Fred Olsen, unless they are linked to Norwegian Cruise Line? I do not understand.

What be your problem now Boris? Should we all just deny the fact that *cough* fly to Newcastle so as not to upset anyone by mentioning them.

[Jamesair]

Oh dear, I didn't think my post would cause such a fuss. Fred Olsen have no connection with NCL (cruise line) and operate a series of cruises out of NCL (Port of Tyne).

This week they announced a new series of four Fly-cruises out of GLA/MAN/BHX and NCL linking with cruises sailing out of Kuala Lumpur, Hong Kong, Tokyo and Dubai, a NCL flight is not offered on the cruise out of Dubai.

[Boris1]

was there a need for you to act like an a**e about someone asking a question which may have been interpreted differently? No. There wasn't was there.

[NCL-TRC]

As of this week Eastern are discontinuing Stavanger flights on their own metal, flights are to SVG are still bookable through Eastern but as part of a code share with Wideroe.

[EK77WNCL]

Jamesair, that is as I had expected so I am unsure as to where the confusion has arisen although that does seem strange that DXB is not on offer.

Hopefully that will boost Wideroe's numbers a bit

[ash666]

Are they having a larf?

While on holiday, I wondered how much it would cost me for a one-way economy ticket for the little 1hr hop from AMS back to NCL. About £100 for the return so I guessed about £50.
They wanted over £400 :confused:

I couldn't believe they wanted that much so I checked with Expedia and just the same. What sort of nutter pays that for a 1 hr, one-way economy flight?

The same people that are stupid/arrogant enough to pay £750 for a normal business return when the seats and service are almost identical to economy and it's only a 1 hour flight anyway? Have these people got their heads so far up.... that they pay an extra £650 just to get on first and have a little bit of curtain seperating them from the plebs?

If it was for business it is grossly wasteful of company money.

A bit like when I was in Thailand and business class was full of monks :=

[SWBKCB]

Firm grasp of airline economics there Ash...

They charge £400 because they can - if you want to travel at the last minute you have to be prepared to pay it. And business class on short haul is normally the first leg of a long haul journey, where the benefits of business class over economy are a bit more apparent.

[ash666]

The fare I got was about 10 days in advance of travel. I didn't pay it....

Shame China Airlines have changed their policy. You used to be able to go business class with CI and they would let you fly economy from NCL-AMS, all ticketed together. As you say, this has benefits in case of missed connections.

Now it has to be business class all the way and adds £600 to the fare and I am not prepared to pay that. It also moves them up into the same price bracket as many other airlines. Bad move.

So this time I got CI busy class and KLM economy but that means they are not ticketed together so tough luck if you miss your connection (I assume. Maybe not the case if they are both part of the SkyTeam Alliance????? - advice welcomed there)

I didn't dare risk it so had to wait 7 hours at AMS for the later flight. As it happens CI was on time (13 hours from BKK, must have gone the scenic route and how much fuel is left after that?) so I went to the transfer desk to see if I could get the earlier flight. Turns out I shot myself in the foot by getting my luggage sent through all the way to NCL from BKK. It surprised me that they could put me on the earlier flight, even though I had checked in for the later one, but they couldn't press a computer button somewhere to change the luggage flight. Lesson learned.

[HH6702]

Morning

This goes back to what we were saying a few weeks ago about the price of United to New York compared to others I.e KLM

You pay for what you get ?
companies and others will pay more to fly direct than to go via hubs as this saves time.

The airlines will always charge more on the day as it has been said if you have to fly you have to pay it

[Jamesair]

Check out the post in the Aer Lingus thread about the new Aer Lingus route to Newquay. as part of the attached article click on to the associated article about 13 months of growth, Aer Lingus twice mentions the outstanding success of its NCL route which has carried 70,000 pax in its first full year of operation. This seems to one of their big success stories.

[virginblue]

Are they having a larf?

While on holiday, I wondered how much it would cost me for a one-way economy ticket for the little 1hr hop from AMS back to NCL. About £100 for the return so I guessed about £50.
They wanted over £400

I couldn't believe they wanted that much so I checked with Expedia and just the same. What sort of nutter pays that for a 1 hr, one-way economy flight?

Hardly anybody. That's why people buy a return ticket and for some strange reason miss the return leg.... This practice even has a name: Throaway Ticketing.

[ash666]

It's a strange business. On the trains 2 singles is usually much cheaper than a return.

[Heathrow Harry]

really?

Depends on the time you travel in my experience

[Fairdealfrank]

While on holiday, I wondered how much it would cost me for a one-way economy ticket for the little 1hr hop from AMS back to NCL. About £100 for the return so I guessed about £50.
They wanted over £400

Most (or certainly some) carriers heavily discount economy fares, so the majority of pax don't pay the full economy fare unless they want lots of flexibility.

These discounted fares are almost never offered on one-way flights, even if it appears that they are on the booking engine.

As virginblue states, people buy a round trip and don't use the return sector. But don't do this in reverse: if the outward leg isn't used, the carrier will usually cancel the return sector.

No frills carriers may have different arrangements.

[LiamNCL]

G-TCDF Operating TCX6025 Just departed TFS around an hour ago , Climbed to 34,000 but descended to 26,000 as it was passing Madiera , Seems to be carrying on aswell cant say i have seen that happen before without actually diverting anyone have any ideas .

[Una Due Tfc]

Some onboard equipment failure must have forced them out of RVSM airspace

[Jamesair]

Timetables now updated and showing 2 x daily M - F and 1 flt Su for summer 15

[LiamNCL]

I see , Thanks for the info

[SWBKCB]

Isn't that a reduction on this summer?? :(

[Jamesair]

Highlights of the Oct stats:

Copenhagen.....1969 +12%
Paris.................13,774 +15%
Dublin...............16,365 +24%
Amsterdam.......32,398 +3%
Murcia...............4798 +5%
Prague.............2511 +9%
Gatwick............11,042 +47%
Southampton...9283 + 12%

Dusseldorf.......2886 - 6%
Cork................1693 - 4%
Girona.............3943 -20%
Stavanger.......1855 -9%
Aberdeen........2729 - 15%
Belfast City.....2492 - 35%
Bristol............13,594 -11%
Jersey............977 -56%

Dubai.........17,534 -1%

[fl dutchman]

Now showing 2 daily Sun-Thurs, 3 daily Fri, 1 daily Sat.

[EK77WNCL]

If NCL has been one of EIR's high flying successes I think it may go 3 daily, but what was it this year? Sure two or three days had 3 services. Either way best of luck to them, and I hope Cork begins to improve soon.

[ash666]

Also, furthermore, as well as and in addition to my previous comments about the price of NCL-AMS I thought I would see what they are asking for next June, well in advance.

A one way economy fare is £454 !!!!!!!!!!
They obviously don't want anyone travelling one way.


Mind, the return fare is a lot more than I have just paid with a couple of months notice.

[fl dutchman]

Dep 10 June, Ret 17 June £76.78 without bags. Extra £24 return for 1 Bag. Not Bad.

Dep 11.15
Arr back at NCL 10.10

[ash666]

Return, yes, but the flight tims would be no good to me.
I was comparing like with like, ie same flight times.

[HH6702]

Hi guys

Sorry to do this but some people may want to know
Just been looking at the new york prices again and found this

Monday 1st june flying out returning friday 5th landing 6th at NCL

United price per person £986
BA price per person £1680
KLM/AF price per person £1045

So looking at those dates OUR direct flight is cheapest.

I know that not all dates we will win but looking ahead,

[ash666]

What class is that? Not economy, surely.

[HH6702]

yes ash it is...........

if these prices hold out i wont be going...
hopefully nearer the time they will reduce in price im happy to pay around £500 return to fly direct.

[ash666]

£500 would seem about right for economy when you can get an 11-13 hour flight to Asia for not much more than that.

The prices over £1000 are ridiculous beyond words.

[j636]

Hi guys

Sorry to do this but some people may want to know
Just been looking at the new york prices again and found this

Monday 1st june flying out returning friday 5th landing 6th at NCL

United price per person £986
BA price per person £1680
KLM/AF price per person £1045

So looking at those dates OUR direct flight is cheapest.

I know that not all dates we will win but looking ahead,

£500 would seem about right for economy when you can get an 11-13 hour flight to Asia for not much more than that.

The prices over £1000 are ridiculous beyond words.

But Aer Lingus come in at £675....Really impressive value, only fools would turn that down.

[EK77WNCL]

That's ridiculous considering I'm probably going to Dubai 20th-28th June and the flights are £385.36 return and they aren't even the cheapest, cheapest is £365.36, first time I've seen these low fares available from Newcastle, it's always been £460+ in the past I'm sure.

[MichaelAM]

I realise I'm not as frequent at posting as many of you on here but the only thing I'll say is be grateful! We have been given the opportunity that many other 'regional' airports would only dream for. Instead of the incessant complaining just be pleased that we have been given the opportunity instead of picking at it straight away. Yes, I know I will get some backlash from this but all I ever read on here is negative and pessimistic comments/claims with very little to back said comments up. Yes, prices may be high, but no airline will start a route if they aren't going to make money, it's business, not a charity. So go with it, just because the regular attendees/members of PPRuNe won't pay the prices doesn't mean the vast majority of others won't.

[HH6702]

I wasn't being negative I was just stating a fact that the prices for ALL airlines to the USA seen to be in line with each other and are very high compared to what we see advertising in the newspapers and travel agent windows...

Maybe those prices of £399-£550 are sale prices.


One good thing is that if all airlines are charging those higher prices then people must be paying it which is good as the airlines need to make money!!

Very true we need to be grateful for what we have.
I'm just sad that I may have been priced out for using these services next year!

[EK77WNCL]

Yeah and that will probably be a slight problem with the service, I'm sure it will be a success but the flights are always expensive in the first year, and as my above post showed with EK, it has taken 7 years for the prices to fall, I'm sure they have about halved compared to what some EK prices used to be, but that's good, EK are obviously confident that they can charge lower fares and still make money, although it works both ways because June is also one of their worst performing months.

Either way, I hope that UA do stick it out, but due to the high prices for the first year or two loads might take time to build, and as they do prices should fall, I hope!

I have a question about LS for summer 2015, some frequencies have been cut, so far I've noticed FAO down 7-6 weekly, and LPA and HER are only 1 weekly next year, I could have sworn that LPA was 2 weekly and HER supposed to be going from 2-3 weekly instead of the other way. Anyone know for sure?

[ash666]

If flights are expensive in the first year then they are doing things the wrong way round.
They should be cheap in the first year, barely breaking even or at a slight loss, to get the route established, then up the prices to what the market will stand.

[SWBKCB]

Being heavily trailed on the news this morning that APD rates are to be devolved to the Scots - big blow to NCL.

[Jamesair]

Changes to APD in the Autumn Financial Statement on 3rd Dec are also being trailed

[VentureGo]

Any info on how flight sales are performing to date? Maybe the cheaper fares are no longer available due to higher than expected demand.

[pallan]

The reason why the prices quoted above are so expensive is because of the rules which the lower fare tiers have attached to them.

The majority of outbound Monday, return Friday flights will be that expensive as, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure the cheaper fare tiers require either a certain number of nights or a certain night stay (e.g. Saturday).

Looking for example at departing Monday 1st and returning Sunday 7th:

BA - £624
UA - £692
KL/AF - £484
EI - £603

In my own personal experience, I went to NY in Feb on a Monday-Friday package. Flight only would have been around 1600pp yet the package with the same flights was around 700pp so it just depends when you are travelling and in what way as to whether the cheaper fares are available.

[skyman771]

UA Fares ex NCL
I think the views expressed re next summers UA fares are perhaps somewhat parochial in that you are simply considering one destination. The whole point of the UA flight is to offer service to NYC & BEYOND. It may be that the incremental cost of NCL to LAX,SFO, ORD or where ever come in pretty keen. Who knows & if all one is doing is to access comparative fares from one of the many internet based search engines then you may only be provided with part of the picture.
I personally find all this discussion on UA fares presumably in an attempt to judge demand / potential success futile. At the end of the day UA will work within market forces, & without an insight into their marketing strategy then current observations reveal nothing, and as already noted are actually negative.:ugh::ugh:

[EK77WNCL]

Ridiculous decision by our incompetent government to devolve APD in Scotland... Or is it ridiculous of them to keep it in the UK? I can't abide by this attitude that we have to suck up to Scotland now to keep the yes voters happy.

I would hope all the UK airports will be lobbying against this decision but it's only really Newcastle that stands to lose quite a lot out of this.

UK APD is astronomical and we're all stupid enough to pay for it.

[Ian Brooks]

I would say it`s anywhere within 2hrs for GLA/EDI that will be affected
and off course London is not in that area.

Ian

[SWBKCB]

Devolving air levy to Scotland could mean 1,000 North East jobs are placed in jeopardy - The Journal (http://www.thejournal.co.uk/north-east-analysis/analysis-news/devolving-air-levy-scotland-could-8186957)

And from earlier in the week.

Newcastle Airport chief lobbies party leaders over crucial Air Passenger Duty - The Journal (http://www.thejournal.co.uk/north-east-analysis/analysis-news/newcastle-airport-chief-lobbies-party-8166975)

[jensdad]

we have to suck up to Scotland now to keep the yes voters happy.

Not sure who you mean by 'we' but it's the 'No' voters that the government need to 'suck up' to!

Seriously though, we had the chance of a type of devolution in 2000 (not much, but it would have started us in the right direction), but we turned it down. However, I appreciate that you weren't involved in that vote , EK7 ;)

[VentureGo]

Seriously though, we had the chance of a type of devolution in 2000 (not much, but it would have started us in the right direction), but we turned it down.
This devolution would have been wrong for the region - It was to be imposed from Westminster with their pre-conditions - Not even sure whether Prescott new the full implications of what was being proposed. What the region (and other UK regions) needs is full federalism which will personalise political and fiscal policies which best suits the region as autonomous from Westminster. Germany are quite successful in this regard, which has benefited the whole country.

[Jamesair]

has anyone noticed that AGADIR has re-appeared in the Thomson timetable for Summer 15 MAY - OCT operates on Thurs dep 1640 arr Fri 0140

[EK77WNCL]

Brilliant Jamesair, I was concerned when they cancelled it that it might scare others off Morocco but if it's back that's good news. NCL's first "scheduled" Morocco link?

And what do you mean Jensdad, I was an avid supporter of regional devolution at the ripe old age of 2 ;)... Srsly though - as the kids might say - I hope when regional devolution comes up again in the near future as is planned, that it is voted for, supported and the North East gets the break it's deserved. NCL was just on the way back up man!

[GrahamK]

It was never removed from the timetable section. Unfortunately the route remains dropped. The Friday AEA Palma has been dropped, and it seems Antalya has now been dropped completely too

[Jamesair]

Not good after all then....sorry to raise false hopes

[EK77WNCL]

Awww :( ah well, that's a shame, I was wondering because it's still in at least 3 of the November 2014 - October 2015 brochures I have. Why were they dropped? Lack of aircraft? Because I don't think they were on sale long enough to cite it as low forward bookings (apart from Antalya, it would seem that Thomson has dropped it entirely, it isn't a selection to book anymore)

[SWBKCB]

This makes EMA currently the 11th busiest UK airport by pax volume. 10th spot is held by NCL on 4,501,516, just 12,712 pax for the year. If both airports continue to grow at their current rate EMA will move in to the Top 10 during 2015.

Interesting analysis from EGNXEMA on the "East Midlands" thread. Of course they also do a bit more freight than us (but don't have any long haul pax flights :O )

[OltonPete]

SWBKCB

EMA-SFB & EMA-CUN still bookable on the Thomson website which not too dissimilar to Newcastle and they still get the cruise flights operated by Thomson in winter but I assume you mean schedules such as EWR & DXB?

Jamesair

I think the Thomson IT department must had seen some economies recently, as the timetable is just awful and bears no relation to the actual current flight schedule but I would imagine it is low priority as few IT punters would be looking at the timetable first when booking a holiday. BHX - PMI on Air Europa was changed in the holiday booking section a few weeks after it was released and it is still shown in the timetable.

2015

As for 10th spot, EMA has an extra Jet2 and more flying by Ryanair but of course will lose two Monarch A321's compared to last summer. Not sure how this will affect things overall.

Pete

[SWBKCB]

but I assume you mean schedules such as EWR & DXB?

Absolutely :ok: (and I was too polite to mention business links to Europe... :E )

[FRatSTN]

TOM do long-haul flights from EMA, but admittedly yes NCL does have more long-haul pax flights as you have EK and now UA too.

EMA's traffic is also much more seasonal in nature than NCL's, so during the summer months EMA is noticeably busier.

Despite ZB leaving EMA, 2015 will probably be very similar to 2014.

How is NCL looking?

To be honest even if it's looking only fractionally busier for 2015 then you'll probably keep 10th place. If NCL is stagnant or sees even small declines though then its possible that EMA might over take.

[SWBKCB]

The only change in the based units I'm aware of is Jet2 changing 757's for 738's, so don't expect much difference?

[Balair]

SWBKCB


Quote:
"Of course they also do a bit more freight than us"


I couldn't see the smiley face at the end of that comment clearly, but I assume it had its tongue well and truly in its cheek!


I believe the 2013 freight/mail figures are roughly EMA 300,000 and NCL 10,000.
In other words EMA handles more than twice as much freight in a month as NCL does in a year?


However, as FRatSTN states, EMA's pax traffic is heavily weighted towards the Summer season and even with the increases by LS and FR next year I suspect the loss of Monarch will mean their figures will be well and truly in the minus category from April onwards.


Balair

[FRatSTN]

Belair.

I suspect the loss of Monarch will mean their figures will be well and truly in the minus category from April onwards.

No I don't agree. LS are basing an extra aircraft and FR basing at least one more (looks like they need to do a few changes to the schedules). EI will also be there next year and BM going from 2x to 3x daily on their BRU route (not much in volume but every little helps). If EMA does decline it will only be in the summer season and more importantly it will only be very slightly.

Anyway, back to NCL...

[SWBKCB]

In other words EMA handles more than twice as much freight in a month as NCL does in a year?

You might beat us on pure freighters but we have you on scheduled pax wide-body belly cargo :) - with tongue firmly in cheek! ;)

[gopaisleygo]

Shall we maybe talk about Newcastle on the Newcastle thread? Just a thought!!! Well done UA, great news

[EK77WNCL]

To be fair I don't see a problem with comparing two "competing" airports one one of the airport's threads. If we were comparing LPL and EMA then yeah I understand but...

I believe it's still roughly correct that NCL has an even split, 1/3 legacy, 1/3 low cost, 1/3 charter? A few more EU routes from legacy carriers and it might tip it a bit more towards legacy which I think is a better position to be in, unlike airports such as EMA and LPL which are >3/4 charter and low cost <1/4 legacy.

I do unfortunately have a slight vendetta because as I see it EMA has stolen Jet2, same with GLA.

With regards to LS changing from 752's to 738's, it will in fact have a pretty big effect. Jet2 alone represents a loss of 736 seats per day on last year. In total with TCX changing to A321's and TOM changing to 738's, we're down 2176 seats per day for the height of the summer season next year. I.e, down about 200,000 pax for June-August alone. Obviously not 100% accurate but it can't be denied that it is having an effect especially since none of them has made a significant increase in seats/based aircraft/weekly frequencies for about 2/3 years.

[TSR2]

unlike airports such as EMA and LPL which are >3/4 charter and low cost <1/4 legacy.


What legacy airlines operate from Liverpool?

[EK77WNCL]

Well... None... Maybe one next year if EI counts. Apologies legacy was the wrong word to be using, but by that I meant Aer Lingus, Bmi and Eastern... Aurigny and Flybe kind of count.

Liverpool was a bad example, Liverpool is about 98% low cost, no charter, only Flybe breaking up the locos.

EDIT: Another apology, I was talking about EMA first, misread your post

[nclops]

With regards to LS changing from 752's to 738's, it will in fact have a pretty big effect. Jet2 alone represents a loss of 736 seats per day on last year.

736 seats per day? Really? 752-235 seats / 738-189 seats. 2 flights per day per A/C 46 seats per flight x 4 flights is only 184 seats per day by my reckoning unless I've missed something?

[EK77WNCL]

Apologies there is an error in my calculations, thank you for pointing that out, I have multiplied the no. of seats available return by the total no. of flights instead of the no. available one way... So, 2 752's, swapped for 2 738's (although I think the plan may be 3 now but my calculations were based on 2)

752 = 235, 738 = 189, 235-189 = 46
46 x 2 = 92
2 returns per day per aircraft = 8 one way flights per day +/-

A/C 1 = 46+46+46+46 = 46 x 4 = 184
A/C 2 = 46+46+46+46 = 46 x 4 = 184

184+184 = 368 seat deficit. Still quite large.

[HH6702]

So the difference of 368 for the downgrade of the 2x 757's to 738??

However aren't we seeing an extra 733 being added to ncl for next summer
So that will be 148 seats per flight and if that aircraft does 2 flights per day then will that not be an increase at ncl????

Also TCX seats will be the same as this summer as its a321's again

[pallan]

That's correct as far as i've heard... the figures don't make sense to me.

Think its time we got over TOM and TCX (and LS) dropping 757's and move on - S15 compared to S14 will be the same for both TOM and TCX, not a decrease and if jet2 replace a 757 with two 737's then that will be a net increase.

Can't remember exactly when TOM dropped the 757's but you can't keep inferring they are decreasing NCL next summer when they aren't - the 738's have been around for atleast a year now

[HH6702]

Its a shame that the websites have not been able to keep the timetable sections up to date. I have just checked the AEA flights and yes now not bookable but it seems they are changing the days of flying around again for some of the Turkish stuff.

Sadly its this time of year just before Xmas that the holiday flights have been on sale for 6 months and before the Jan rush they change and drop things that are not selling as expected. Does not mean it may be gone forever they may bring it back in the next reshuffle which is normally end of march before the season starts.

Looking forward......... ITS ALL GOOD!!!!!

The 3 main holiday operators (TOM,TCX,LS) all increasing there flying for this coming summer.

We have EWR and a DAILY DXB!!!!!



So whats next.....Which routes and airlines is the airport is working on.........???

i have send emails to both FLYBE and BMI asking what there plans are for routes to Germany from NCL. Both airlines have stated in past statements that they are looking at routes to germany from NCL but this hasnt happened yet...
Reply from both was a standard please keep checking website!!!!!


Short haul routes charter...
The airport has this covered very well and i can see only a handful of routes that could be added in years to come.


Long Haul......

What are the chances of getting a few new routes from NCL.
Could TOM,TCX holidays work together on this

Routes we have had to come back?


******RYANAIR*****
With the change of direction for this airline in customer service and the airports now MAIN ones being added could we see them add more routes from the north east in the coming years?


Flybe full timetable and flights on sale from the 9th dec i doubt we will see anything else new but maybe???

[SWBKCB]

The 3 main holiday operators (TOM,TCX,LS) all increasing there flying for this coming summer.

Apologies if I've not been keeping up, but what's the expansion from these three? Apart from a possible extra Jet2 733 (is this confirmed?), aren't the other two the same? More W's in or fewer W's out (didn't think there was much except for the third TCX unit)?

[EK77WNCL]

-using my phone so I'm sorry for any errors-
I didn't infer TOM were decreasing for 2015 but since 2012 (I think) when it was all 757, there is a decrease, although I have discounted 2011's anomaly by which I mean we had 4 TCX 757's, not all 235 seaters but still a canny bit. If you look on the upside, in a few years we should have the 235 seater A321neo and in about 20-25 years we might have the 200 seater MAX from LS.

It was my understanding that next year we go from 4 733 and 2 752 to 3 733 and 3 738, so actually the Jet2 loss will not be substantial.

The 2 new routes each from TOM and TCX come from (as far as I can tell) gaps in the schedules and a few being dropped, and TOM's now cancelled use of other airlines has been covered. LS's new routes and increases also cone from gaps along with reduction in frequency, for example on FAO and I swear LPA and HER have lost frequency. Also increased use of ALC aircraft. I think if anything Jet2's net increase will be about 2-3 per week if that.

Looking quite far ahead but I hope for 2016 we might finally see LS giving us the 8 aircraft we have been promised, or TOM going to 4 or TCX swapping the A320 for A321.

In terms of long haul, could there be demand for Mexico's west coast? Or a return to the Dominican Republic? India or Thailand could be a good shout but there would be no real benefits since we have EK. I don't think it would be a success nowadays. TCX might give something a go but I don't know where, and hopefully Jet2 one day might do Florida. We do have Montego Bay coming online though for the winter which is good, and it's already loaded for next winter too so fingers crossed for good loads, just a bit if a shame it's on the 767 not 787 which seems a bit weird.

I don't think well see anything from Flybe or Bmi, but I'd like to see Flybe do Tegel. Milan is another burning route that pisses me off a bit that we don't have it.

[Charlie98]

EK you honestly give me a chuckle with your posts, they are rather optimistic to say the least.

Thing is, charter isn't what it was pre-2008 and nor will it be for a long while if ever, the damage from the good old 4x 757 TCXA days has been done over 4 years ago so moaning about that now is nothing but silly.

Next year we have 3x Jet2 738s and one less 733 so actually it's a slight increase and to be fair, anyone who expected the 757s to live on at BY/TOM at NCL based aircraft until the end are wrong, we know we are in one of the poorer areas on the route map, the demand and economic pull is all upon Manchester and Gatwick.

Overall next year should be a slight up, people moaning about the 757s need to realise that with all their might and beauty, they wouldn't live on forever and we are getting quite a good deal, we will see marginal increases but anything major? Probably not for few years.

Why can't we just stop making rubbish up and accept we are no LHR, we've got a good whack as it is and moaning or fanticising over tosh at this rate is actually rather annoying.

Be positive!

[Travel Agent]

Can't see TCX doing long haul from Newcastle, they have already stated that Manchester is their hub and then a few flights ex LGW and a handful from GLA, BFS & STN in peak summer.

I don't think we will be high up Thomson's list for increase either, if anywhere will get more L/H from them it is likely to be BHX & GLA before NCL. For a small catchment area we do really well to have the Dubai and next year's EWR service so I think we should be really pleased with what we have.

I have loads of destinations I would love to see from here but they ain't going to happen when airlines know they can make fortunes from flights to the Costa's and Canaries where many people from up here love!

[EK77WNCL]

Don't get me wrong it's not that I'm ungrateful or expected year on year on year increases from all the charter carriers, but I would have thought that some more frequencies might have been added, maybe by bringing in other operators such as Onur Air and Air Europa (as TOM were going to). It is also just sentimentality I will miss the 757 [being easily available] from Newcastle.

[compton3bravo]

I would have thought that the main pre-occupation at the moment at Newcastle is if the Scottish Government get the powers to change the Air Passenger Duty (APD) not squabbling about the proposed fleet changes of Jet2 and Thomas Cook. If they do decide to reduce the APD and with the proposed upgrade of the A1 then you may well have a problem with passenger numbers.

[fl dutchman]

So has it been confirmed anywhere that there putting 3x 738 and 3x 733 into NCL for summer 2015.

Yes Scottish APD could be a serious issue for NCL.

[FANS]

APD is the biggest issue to hit NCL, and one that needs sorting out asap before EDI starts direct bus services from NCL!

[INeedTheFull90]

Agreed that there are far more pressing issues than Jet2 composition, the launch of new routes such as the Scottish. They've already shut down Manston and will soon decimate NCL whilst the Scottish state run PIK trundles along nicely.

This is the biggest threat to NCL in its history. It is a bigger issue than worrying about which model of 777 EK is using, how many 757s will be based there, how many planes will have winglets and how much the EWR flight costs.

This is major. This is catastrophic. I've seen talk on here eluding to passenger numbers and NCLs risk of losing its position as #10 to EMA.

You're about to see it PLUNGE further down the list. Priorities people.

[Heathrow Harry]

there is absolutely no evidence that APD affects the amount of flying people do - its a total red herring

and how many people are going to drive to & back from EDI to save a few quid???

Newcastle's problems are that it is a relatively small catchment area cp somewhere like MAN and the people who live here aren't that well off

Not much you can do about either TBH

[INeedTheFull90]

Oh come on, it has to have an affect. People who would drive a few hours to NCL to get a cheaper ticket may as well continue to EDI or GLA. For a family of four it's nearly a £60 saving for a short flight, it's many hundreds for long haul. This is the start of the end for NCL's limited long haul holiday flights.

Furthermore, the long summer NCL enjoys with scottish coming here for cheaper flights in their summer holidays and half term will likely end.

Aircraft will move north as you can charge the same fare and make at least £13 a head more on an outbound flight so based units in NCL will likely reduce substantially.

I see the LS base reducing by 2/3 units, EJ closing (bet some of you in here will be loving that), TOM/TCX reducing based units or cutting the flying programme and NCL will be a shadow of its former self. There will be no return of flyBE and any new airlines operating into NCL will likely just serve edi where they can benefit from both inward tourism and better margins.

I've seen the airport quoted in many recent news articles and they have been warning of the impacts of devolving APD long before the independance vote.

APD does have an impact. CO threatened to pull out of BFS because of it, and the route now benefits from £0 APD and is continuing. FR made a fuss with Ireland for the same of a few Euro APD and now they've managed to abolish it.

[rpmac]

The problem will be when families in the Scottish borders who could go either way, ie EDI or NCL find that without the APD at EDI it is cheaper to head north rather than south to NCL. In fact I know of friends and family who will travel to NCL from East Lothian, 100 miles if the deal ex NCL is good, inc flight times but that might change if the APD is abolished in Scotland.

[monarchnew]

Even is APD is abolished, there is nothing to say that airlines will be passing on the savings to the passengers. In theory they could just ramp the fare prices up and make more ££££. If they do see an increase of passengers numbers, fares are bound to increase anyway...supply and demand and all that.

[SWBKCB]

If they do see an increase of passengers numbers, fares are bound to increase anyway

Have the laws of supply and demand changed recently?

Some of the comments here are a bit over the top, although a reduction of APD in Scotland would be an issue for NCL. People will certainly travel north if the price is right.

[Flying.Penguin]

Does anyone from Newcastle and the north of England use NCL or is it exclusivity for Scottish passengers? Reading the OTT reaction on here you'd think NCL was entirely dependant on Scottish passengers who will drive for 3 hours to save £10. Bloody Scotch and bloody dramatic Northerners. :p

Calm down guys. APD will have little effect on NCL. If any English airport is effected in anyway, MAN will probably feel it more than NCL. From those cheap Scots driving 4 hours to save £10.

[Centre cities]

I must admit that a zero APD rate at Edinburgh would be not be fare on the rest of the UK especially Newcastle. If Newcastle was made a special case because of it and was lower rated then Durham and Leeds will be crying not fare.

Edinburgh is sill a part of Great Britain and needs to compete on the same terms. It is not the same as special arrangements being made for Belfast v Dublin.

Centre cities

[Flying.Penguin]

^^ Why would APD only be reduced at EDI and not other Scottish Airports?

Looking at the demographics and routes on offer, I would guess GLA provides a more attraction choice of routes to those in the north of England than what EDI does.

[Joe Curry]

I would guess GLA provides a more attraction choice of routes to those in the north of England than what EDI does.

And you host a webpage to prove it? Remind us again the URL?

Let's check the surface mileages.

Newcastle to GLA = 157 miles
Newcastle to EDI = 110 miles

fwiw I doubt either EDI or GLA will benefit from any NCL imbalance of APD levies.

[EK77WNCL]

You would probably be surprised how far most people drive for a deal.

[AMS70]

Zero APD at EDI and GLA will spell the end of most of the medium-haul routes out of NCL, we might be left with Dubai and Sharm el Sheikh by 2017

[Fairdealfrank]

I would have thought that the main pre-occupation at the moment at Newcastle is if the Scottish Government get the powers to change the Air Passenger Duty (APD) not squabbling about the proposed fleet changes of Jet2 and Thomas Cook. If they do decide to reduce the APD and with the proposed upgrade of the A1 then you may well have a problem with passenger numbers.
Is APD definitely going to be devolved?

There's a lot of assumption that the Scottish Executive would scrap APD, but it is by no means a forgone conclusion.

As for the A1 improvements, they are way into the future. Also, the dualling is only as far as Ellington. Ellington-Edinburgh remains single carriageway. Then there's the Edinburgh south bypass to negotiate if heading for Turnhouse.....



there is absolutely no evidence that APD affects the amount of flying people do - its a total red herring
It can be a deterent on discretionary spending - hence Osborne's reduction in the longhaul rates (band 3 and 4 to be same as 2) and rumoured scrapping of it for kids. best thing he can do is scrap it.


and how many people are going to drive to & back from EDI to save a few quid???
Petrol prices would wipe out the savings. Also there's the aggravation.


Have the laws of supply and demand changed recently?

Some of the comments here are a bit over the top, although a reduction of APD in Scotland would be an issue for NCL. People will certainly travel north if the price is right.
You're assuming that people check the APD element of the fare. They don't, it's the amount they have to shell out that matters. APD gets lost with the other "taxes, fees and charges and surcharges".

There's also no evidence that carriers will pass on any savings if there's a likelihood that could get away with not doing so.

The issue is far from cut and dry.


The best thing Osborne can do is to scrap APD for the entire UK before it can be devolved. Job done, sorted, case closed.

[SWBKCB]

Is APD definitely going to be devolved?

There's a lot of assumption that the Scottish Executive would scrap APD, but it is by no means a forgone conclusion.

No - but heavily trailed and SNP have said if given the powers they will use them.

Also, the dualling is only as far as Ellington. Ellington-Edinburgh remains single carriageway.

Never let the facts get in the way of an argument (and where's Ellington?)

Petrol prices would wipe out the savings. Also there's the aggravation.

People are already looking at EDI as well as MAN etc - anecdotally, 4 out of my Newcastle based team on 9 have used EDI for family holidays in then last 18 months (2 used MAN)

[Hipennine]

"People are already looking at EDI as well as MAN etc - anecdotally, 4 out of my Newcastle based team on 9 have used EDI for family holidays in then last 18 months (2 used MAN"

The question is why ?

It is not because of APD.

Is it because fares/holidays out of NCL are frequently higher than out of EDI, MAN, EMA, etc ? Or is it because they couldn't fly ex NCL to where they wanted to go, or on a day they wanted to go ?

I frequently find that there is sufficient cost differential between NCL and the others to make it worth driving.

My simple mind says that if fares ex NCL are higher, the yields should be higher as well, and therefore NCL should be attractive to carriers. Or is the cost of operating ex NCL so much higher than anywhere else ?

[Joe Curry]

Is it because fares/holidays out of NCL are frequently higher than out of EDI, MAN, EMA,

Most, if not all, High Street Travel trade long haul package flights/deals are not available from EDI. Just imagine how 'worse' the leakage from NCL would be if they were?

[CabinCrewe]

Not "all" as you well know....Thomson have been operating long haul from EDI for years to both Mexico and Florida. And interestingly have seen fit not to expand their offering, why should that change now. You cant still be blaming BAA, Thomson, etc...did I miss anyone ?

[Joe Curry]

Thomson have been operating long haul from EDI for years to both Mexico and Florida.

Short 2 flight high Scottish season returns will hardly be classified as regular.
NCL clientele would hardly be tempted by the premium prices these few peak flights attract. APD or no APD?

[EK77WNCL]

I think my only input will be is, I'm confident this won't happen because I'm confident this can't happen. It wouldn't be a level playing field and wouldn't be fair and Newcastle would lose out. I think there has been A LOT of over exaggeration as to how far Newcastle would lose out, but we would.

I'd put money on these scenarios:
1. Scottish APD devolved: EZY goes, lose some charter long haul and frequencies on medium haul, forever stuck in the 4mppa purgatory we are in now.
2. Things stay the same: Slow and steady increase as things pick up, might have 5 million passengers again by the end of 2017.
3. UK drops APD: Everyone is better off! Even if massive savings aren't passed on to airlines, sale fares will be lower again, long haul will be much more sustainable for the regions (MAN and probably EDI will benefit from this big time) etc etc etc

There's got to be someone in the houses of parliament clever enough to work that out

[TSR2]

My bet is Scenario 2

2. Things stay the same: Slow and steady increase as things pick up, might have 5 million passengers again by the end of 2017.

Not so sure on reaching 5 million by that date though.


There's got to be someone in the houses of parliament clever enough to work that out

I would'nt bet on that.

[Joe Curry]

long haul will be much more sustainable for the regions (MAN and probably EDI will benefit from this big time) etc etc etc


I doubt that direct long haul flights from NCL will suffer from 300+ miles
return surface journeys to MAN or GLA even - taking fuel, time/parking costs into account. The biggest threat would be EDI's closest 220 miles but that isn't going to happen unless the High Street charter fleets decide to relocate. APD or no APD.

[EK77WNCL]

TSR2, I think I agree with you too, it's not the one I want to see, I want to see 3 but as you went on to say, unlikely any of them have the capacity to realise what is best, especially when it comes to the north, the only think I credit Miliband for, saying he will protect North East Airports - In the unlikely event he keeps his word I'd like to see him in charge and see regional devolution take place, I think we can look after ourselves better than they can... Might have to get the local ex MEP (now lord) over for a chat...

And anecdotally, I know people who've traveled ridiculously far for deals (including myself)
- Next year I'm wanting to go to visit FTE Jerez, we could fly NCL-AGP or NCL-STN-XRY, but it's my mam's opinion that driving to STN would be cheaper and the better option (I shall contest this)
- This year my aunty, uncle and grandparents went on holiday to Lanzarote, they drove from Gateshead to LTN to fly FR.... Cheaper
- On the very same day, my cousin and her new husband drove down to Manchester the day after their wedding for their honeymoon to fly MAN-CIA, they live in Alnwick...
- The same aunty and uncle have been to Lanzarote twice before, flown from NCL (LS) once and I believe the other time was LBA (FR)
- I went to London with my parents and flew EDI-LCY-EDI... People at school thought I was mental, but it was cheaper and more convenient
- Family holiday to Portugal a few years ago, the six of us flew MAN-LIS because TAP was cheaper than EZY from GLA or EDI, NCL never got a look in, I assume it's more convenient to have the 3 hour drive on the UK end than the Portugal end.
- Many years ago as a child I remember driving to EMA to go on holiday to the Algarve despite flights from NCL, I also remember the year before/after that, flying NCL-STN-FAO-STN-NCL because it was cheaper (all on EZY 737's ;) )

I know there have been more occurrences too like my mam flying EMA-NBE for a last minute weekend away and our headteacher (who's a family friend) driving to STN for a school trip to Slovenia... Now, I know there's a lot there, quite a lot are isolated, there are a lot more where we've flown from NCL (even one family holiday from MME!!!), but unfortunately most of the time I had no say (except when I said to take a look at TAP :/ ) and most people never care about supporting their local airport and will go where it's cheaper.

While I'm on the subject, UA better get advertising connecting flights through EWR because I was speaking to another aunty who wants to go back to Las Vegas next year and when I said "oh you can use the new direct flight to New York" she said immediately "no, you wouldn't go through New York first anyway"... I wasn't brave enough to say "you could"

[Charlie98]

My family must be one of a few - we never will look anywhere else to fly, even if it's a connection to AMS just to get to the destination:ok:

[LiamNCL]

Your not the only one , we wont look anywhere else either i dont compare prices to anywhere in the UK i always fly from NCL regardless

[EK77WNCL]

I always WANT to fly from NCL regardless... Alas, I'm not yet fully in charge of holidays although people tend to come to me and I do my damnedest to get them flights from NCL.

One thing we always stick to though is that if we're flying long haul (so far we've only gone east) we always fly EK from NCL. And I've decided that so far KL is my airline of choice for Europe. Yet to try BA proper, only done Cityflyer on the LCY-EDI leg.

What's the chances FR could make us work? They just offer so much capacity so cheap I think one or two aircraft could be good for us.

[INeedTheFull90]

What could FR bring to the table that NCL doesn't already have? Flooding the market will trash yeilds and potentially cause Jet2, Thomson, Thomas Cool and easyJet, all of who have had stable bases at NCL for many a year to consider their position. They could shrink or go completely and FR will vanish as soon as its startup incentives have gone. Smaller FR bases are not stable, they come and go. I really don't see the obsession with tails and points on a map. It's jobs, in the airport and local supply chain and profitability for the airport owners which is what is really important.

[SWBKCB]

The only hope would be for FR to try something different and with their low cost base and brand recognition make it work by adding new customers or pulling back those currently going elsewhere - otherwise you are just dividing the same pot amongst a bigger group.

However, that's an unlikely approach and I agree that any FR base might not be great long term.

[Flyer70]

Travelling to another airport rather than Newcastle is not always the cheapest option, even if using loco airlines. I need to go to Madrid in April for a few days. I have looked at all the options, even driving to Stansted and staying overnight with my daiughter who lives near there. And the cheapest flight is still BA from Newcastle, when you add in the extra costs you need to add with loco airlines.

[Travel Agent]

From my experience (nearly 24 years working and then owning one) as a travel agent, 95% of people from southern Northumberland and Tyne & Wear do not want to drive elsewhere for a flight. "Why drive when there is an airport on my doorstep".

Last week I flew NCL-BRS overnight in a B&B and then BRS-FAO early on the Saturday morning, I flew direct back to NCL on the following Tuesday, not because of cost (it ended up £40 more with cost of accom) but because the flight times were much more convienient for me. Everyone else who I met out in Portugal thought I was nuts! They were on the Saturday evening flight and arrived at the hotel gone 11pm, I had an afternoon on the marina watching the Newcastle match whilst waiting for them!

I would love to fly ex NCL everytime but it is not always possible because of limitations on routes, frequencies and timings. I am also realistic to know that not every route will work and tour ops / airlines will only offer what they know makes money. We are a hell of a lot better off now then what we were in the late 80's / early 90's when we had 1 based Britannia 737 and 1 based Dan Air 737 for charter use :)

[DanAir89]

While it may have been one 737 each from Dan Air and Britannia in the winter, summer wasn't that bad! Two Britannia 737's, 1 DA 737-200 and 1 DA 737-400 were based in summer 1990. Joined by an Air Uk leisure 737-400 and an air 2000 757 both from Thursday-Sunday! I'll get my coat....

[Travel Agent]

Actually I think Paramount had a MD83 & 737 based around 89/90 too!

[yeo valley]

Actually I think Paramount had a MD83 & 737 based around 89/90 too!


paramount had a 737 300 based. md83 did some w patterns and also part based.

[DanAir89]

Paramount had an Md83 in 88, 737 in 89. Gave the chronicle/journal a story every week with their 24+ hour delays but provided loads of sub-charters when the 737 wasn't delivered in time for May 89. Anyway (to avoid being moved to history and nostalgia) apd - with two kids under 12 my holiday from Newcastle will be a bit cheaper next year!

[EK77WNCL]

Yeah when I said FR I thought new markets not existing markets.

There used to be widebodies in and out in the 80's/90's too, like NCL-TFS on an L1011, but we're undoubtedly better off now (in terms of capacity and frequency)

[INeedTheFull90]

The only thing FR would bring in terms of new routes would be low yielding Eastern European ones. Again these would likely stop once start up incentives finish. Very few holiday routes can support multiple carriers outside the core routes.

With dozens of routes already directly and six hub connections on network carriers there can't be much scope for new routes not already covered in NCL given the based aircraft there already.

[EK77WNCL]

Scope would definitely be Milan and more EU (specifically Germany lacking). Wizz would probably be better in place of FR on eastern Europe routes. If EZY were to leave, FR would be a good fill, they could serve all the same routes.

[Jamesair]

FR have previously operated to Milan (Bergamo), Oslo (Torp) and Shannon from NCL

[EK77WNCL]

Yep, I remember, I flew them to Bergamo, and I'm sure that their loads were good for the duration they flew

[northumberlandairway]

Ryanair would not pose a major threat if they filled in the gaps - but that would involve a degree of cooperation with the other airlines, something for which they are not famous.

It would be lovely to have Milan and Oslo back, I had flown on both and the Italian flight seemed to be particularly well subscribed. Additionally a few more flights to the German and Polish speaking world which I feel is massively underserved at NCL would be nice. Ryanair does not have to be based here, just fly here from some of the bases they have elsewhere.

[EK77WNCL]

Couldn't agree more northumberlandairway, your comment about Poland, I think Wizz would be perfect, they did well from MME so why couldn't they do just as well or better from a larger market? Warsaw, Riga and Gdansk would be a good start. Riga would be a massive hit, Wizz are dirt cheap, as is Riga and geordies love stag nights.

[INeedTheFull90]

Wizzair couldn't have done that well if they didn't keep it on. Infact it was dropped after a year or so.

[HH6702]

I think it was the choice of airport they picked??
Look at every other airline that has been there!!

Look at why Thomson left?

If they did give ncl to Warsaw a go or other places I'm sure it could work

[SWBKCB]

Your re-writing history if your comparing Wizz and Thomson at MME.

More to the point, lets compare Wizz's overall growth and their position in the UK. When did they last launch a UK route outside Luton?

[EK77WNCL]

It was only a few months ago:
Riga from Liverpool
Move from Prestwick to Glasgow (doesn't really count but they've been going from strength to strength)
Katowice and Vilnius from Belfast
Bucharest from Doncaster started in June

[SWBKCB]

Ok - but given they're expansion elsewhere obviously not a focus of growth. Interesting that the new routes are at Peel airports.

[nef]

Sorry, but they've just started KTW and POZ from GLA and announced freq increases on the existing WAW and GDN services. Obviously not a Peel airport either.

[northumberlandairway]

So we can safely say Wizz have expanded lately in the UK.

Warsaw would be the obvious route for NCL should Wizz wish to dip their toe in the North East market again. Let's face it Poland is massively under served in the North East compared to other regions of the UK. Anywhere else Wizz might want to fly Geordies off to?

[Jamesair]

Budapest seemed to do reasonably well for EZY a few years ago

[SWBKCB]

Before we expand the Wizz network from NCL, any evidence that they are interested??

Given the low level of visibility of Wizz in the UK, I would expect any flights to be targeted at the other end and the relatively low level of East Europeans in the North East would count against NCL.

[NCL-TRC]

IIRC Didn't we almost have a polish link until the airline that was supposed to start it went bust in 2012?

[GrahamK]

OLT Express to Brydzos something Or other using A320s twice weekly iirrc

[EK77WNCL]

Yeah that's right GrahamK, they seemed way too optimistic from the start but I really do wish they had gotten off the ground. Whether Newcastle to Bydgoszczczzcz is a very popular route, who knows, but it could have worked.

Apart from Riga and Warsaw which would probably be the best opening routes, possibly along with Gdansk, I think Budapest (unless Jet2 ever start it - I'm really really surprised they haven't considering they picked up Prague and Krakow from EZY, and NCL is the only remaining route from KRK) could have a shot, then Vilnius, Wroclaw and or Poznan. I'd say there wouldn't be much more outside of those routes, I'd desperately hope they wouldn't start Katowice because we might lose Krakow (although Wizz traffic would be more inbound than LS). If there were to be any others,
- Sofia? I dunno I doubt it, they can't offer anything to ski traffic from the UK. - Bucharest? Possible, people could use it to connect as it's a large base (obviously more successful if they did offer connections)
- Kiev, had the political situation been any better I think it would be a winner, Kiev is supposed to be a really amazing city.

[nighthawk117]

- Kiev, had the political situation been any better I think it would be a winner, Kiev is supposed to be a really amazing city.

Kiev is an amazing city, but it is far from ready for mass western tourism. There is still a huge language barrier, with very few people speaking English over there. When I visited in 2008 all signs were in Cyrillic only, very few restaurants had English menus, and English speaking waitresses were even rarer.

I believe this was due to be addressed ahead of them hosting the Euro Cup in 2012, but there will still be a language gap. Until that is resolved, it will remain a relatively niche destination.

[Kev 1]

New routes to Corfu (1 per week), Rhodes (1 per week) and Split (2 per week) loaded for next Summer.

[fa2fi]

This is excellent news .-)

[HH6702]

Good news from easyjet and very surprising of the routes...

CFU - do we need another airline on the route ?
Yes if it's different days to the other carriers

RHO - nice choice

Spilt - didn't jet2 try this one before ?

All good news does this mean a 4th based aircraft now?


Still think they should be looking at routes which could work year round not just the summer... Routes to Hamburg etc

[Heathrow Harry]

"CFU - do we need another airline on the route ?"

Of course - all those teenage drinkers need a daily service between two of Europe's Party Capitals...................

[fa2fi]

Just for a random sample of days in June it looks like it's still three aircraft sadly.

[CentreFix25]

Am I right in thinking that by the time these routes start, Gatwick and Amsterdam will have ended?

[highwideandugly]

Now I might not be very good at sums but....
People go on about loads and yield.however a flight to Corfu once a week ,nearly four hours flying time.. At a fare of £150 ish. One way. Compared to two flights a day to gatwick(also potentially) feeding into a massive easy jet network at a fare of approx £100 one way for 50 mins flying time.?????

Can some clever person explain what is the better and cost effective route????:confused:

[cumbrianboy]

£100 one way. Take £13 for apd (you pay it both ways for domestics!) plus gatwick charges I would guess will be about £20+ a passenger and handling will be more expensive. Plus I doubt they were achieving an average of £100 each way on gatwick, v v v unlikely!

Corfu will sell 90%+ of seats at upwards of £100 avg one way.

Gatwick loads where in the 60-70% ish and I reckon average fares around £60-£70 minus £30 ishin charges and tax.

Once the aircraft is cruising it's not burning huge amounts of fuel and crew is paid for, plus long flight lots of ancillary revenue from the holiday makers drinking lots, eating lots and buying lots of tax free ...

I'd say more money to be made on Corfu, but like you I don't have access to figures, just thinking aloud ...

[fa2fi]

I got flights to LGW in March for £22 each all in. Booked last week. So with 12 weeks to go they can charge just £22. A CFU flight in six months time can fetch five times that, with less APD on return sector, lower charges I assume and the chance to make ancillaries, which people just don't gother with on a hop to LGW.

[EK77WNCL]

Excellent news, I am very surprised! I guess some were right to read further into their statement a few months ago.

[Falcon900LX]

We need a new thread, one for pipe dream routes and one for actual proper aviation talk, I don't understand why it's just the NCL forums on all the aviation websites. :ugh:

[ash666]

Some people were calling New York a pipe dream route.

[HH6702]

Well said ash666

We will always dream...

However 2015 is looking very good.

News from all major airlines really

New routes from Thomson, Thomas Cook, jet2 and now easyjet..

Let's hope it continues

[GrahamK]

easyJet also introducing a Fear of Flying Course at the moment.

Regarding developments at NCL, are they continuing the focus on redeveloping the departures area, and how close are they to being finished?

[NCL-TRC]

The development in departures is still on going, they're about half way through the process by the looks of it, it's meant to be finished for the start of summer 15 I beleive, hopefully they'll have a look at the gates next as they really are in need of a refresh.

[HH6702]

Shall we start taking guesses what CFU will be replaced with then

Berlin - Xmas markets??
Salzburg - ski

KEF,AMS??


So do this now mean that easyjet and the airport are now working more closely or easyjet is trying to cover what they could have had

[Travel Agent]

Thomson Airways are adding a Friday flight to Hurghada for winter 15/16. On sale today (11th Dec). Also operating to Larnaca for winter too (not sure if the LCA is full season yet)

[EK77WNCL]

Hopefully the TOM, HRG flights mean TCX did well with their NCL-HRG flights in November and have strong forward bookings. Hoping for a positive coexistance on that route this time next year.

HH6702, CFU, RHO and Split are all summer seasonal so hopefully that means 4 new similar length frequencies for winter too, or more shorter ones. This begs a question, as NCL is losing 4 weekly AMS and 2 daily LGW, these 15 weekly frequencies have been replaced by 4 (albeit longer) weekly flights, do EZY still have considerable slack or do the messed up Bristol schedules even everything out?

I (half tongue in cheek) posted on the aiport's announcement:
"Very pleased to see this, I'm almost sorry I ever doubted EZY (but the Bristol schedules still need fixing!) roll on more Easyjet for 2016! Berlin, Marrakech, Milan, Munich and Reykjavik please"

I live in hope they see sense and grant us a fourth aircraft and tap these destinations, if they can do Split where one has failed already and jump in on CFU/RHO against NCL's big 3... I'm sure they can do those 5 with no competition.

For winter though I almost expect to see something like Sharm El Sheikh, going for winter sun rather than ski, as they have with Tenerife.

[SWBKCB]

LGW isn't done by NCL based a/c.

[CentreFix25]

First return of the day is done by a NCL based machine, the second by a LGW one.

[Bagso]

A spokesperson for Newcastle recently attended the Runways UK event at Manchester where there were discussions on how regional airports could help solve the capacity crunch in the South East.

Given that Newcastle already has 7 flights a day to Heathrow they were still advocating that they want more yet more access. Is 7 a day not enough ?

[Bagso]

A spokesperson for Newcastle recently attended the Runways UK event at Manchester where there were discussions on how regional airports could help solve the capacity crunch in the South East.

Given that Newcastle already has 7 flights a day to Heathrow they were still advocating that they want more yet more access. Is 7 a day not enough ?

Would they not prefer better choice and accessibility to places like Istanbul, Abu Dhabi etc and would such a strong stance deter those airlines from starting NEW flights?

[Boris1]

BRS schedules may look as if they're messed up, but from EZYs point of view (and pax) they seem to work fine, which is the most important thing (makes them a profit) so they won't be changing that in a hurry.

NCL can get up to 8 flights a day from LHR, with some day stopping to make use of cheaper parking here and freeing up space/slots at LHR. Not sure how long this is to last, possibly just until January.

Not all of them go out full (or even half full). Loads tend to fluctuate a lot

They have no plans to permanently add more scheduled flights into NCL at present. They're pretty much making use of parking space elsewhere but offering flights to pax to earn some revenue to make them worthwhile.

[apaul]

Of course a timetable that does not allow a business day in Bristol or Newcastle most days is not going to attract passengers and passenger numbers on the route are falling.

[Boris1]

A good point. It should be catered more towards business travellers. But, as usual, if they're making money, they won't bother, which is a shame.

[EK77WNCL]

But the point is they kind of have to be making less money... Hence my suspicion that they are trying to kill it like STN. I hope I'm wrong and these new routes make me hope even more that I am wrong... But 1 morning flight per week, come on!

[SWBKCB]

"trying to kill it"? If they don't want to operate it, they won't

[HH6702]

Hi

Is Thomson basing an aircraft in SSH for winter 2015/16 as the ncl flights are not using a based ncl machine


Monday and Thursday flights

Departs SSH 10.30 arriving ncl at 1800
Departs NCL 19.00

Hurghada flights are the same on Fridays aircraft not ncl based

[HH6702]

ALL flights on the Thomson website are shown as (w) into NCL

EITHER A Mistake are the base is to close??

[fl dutchman]

LHR drops to 5 per day from late Dec to sometime in Jan then it goes back to up to 6/7/8 per day until the start of summer when it reverts to 6 per day. Next winter sees an increase again to 7/8 per day.

Easyjet, BRS. I dont understand why on most of the days where there are two flights, none is in the morning yet two in the afternoon /evening within about 3 hrs of each other. On these days in the morning there seems to be an aircraft doing nothing on the ground at NCL. So there is an aircraft available to do a morning BRS rotation.

There must be a reason for this?? meanwhile the PAX nos appear to be dropping.

[fl dutchman]

HH6702 Think you will find its an error on the timetables. Look in the holiday booking part and you will find what I understand are the correct times. (I Hope). Dont panic.

[HH6702]

I've just spoken to a friend of mine and they have been told it's a computer error...

[Charlie98]

As if Thomson would pull one of their bigger bases with no reason after a good 15 years being based, they won't leave unless something goes drastically wrong, especially when their ethos is to fly from your local airport.

Thomson also have one of the more intense winter programmes out of NCL compared to the others.

[DanAir89]

15 years may underestimate their presence slightly. Thomson/Britannia must have had a base at Newcastle for at least 35 years - definitely here throughout the 80's, 90's and 00's possibly throughout the 70's.

[EK77WNCL]

Yes SWBKCB "trying to kill it" because I assume that if they just pulled it without being able to cite "low/decining passenger numbers" there would be some kind of outcry from the quarter of a million people who use it every year.

[SWBKCB]

there would be some kind of outcry from the quarter of a million people who use it every year.

Really?? All EZY will say is that the route wasn't making enough money. If it doesn't make sense they'll just drop it and move on - no need to play games.

[HH6702]

Increase to 3 x weekly for summer 2015

[EK77WNCL]

Announced quite a while ago I'm sure, but still good news. Considering whether it could be a good more for EZY to do IOM, it would push Manx2 off the route which would be a shame but it would make it much more affordable and attractive.

[INeedTheFull90]

I'd rather the safety of an Airbus than Manx2 Two. Sorry I mean Citywing.

[EK77WNCL]

Forgot about the name change. I flew manx2 2/3 years ago NCL-IOM-NCL G-CCPW, I was impressed with them, but 'PW has had 2 landing gear collapses since :/

Pilots were mint... Sat me up in 1B with a headset on the IOM-NCL flight because they were the same pilots who did our NCL-IOM

[INeedTheFull90]

Well ManxWho crashed a plane and nobody got held responsible. No matter how much you spotter types whinge easy has a fabulous safety record and great prices. If they push a two Bob operator off the route then I will rejoice knowing my fellow north easterners are traveling in safety.

[SWBKCB]

Meanwhile, back in the real world, replacing a 19 seater with a 319 - how does that work?

[INeedTheFull90]

Only on Pprune!

[VickersVicount]

CAA stats showing DXB up a little. GLA maintaining its levels despite QR.

[EK77WNCL]

Ah the obligatory derogatory spotter comment..

SWBKCB, EZY would be much much cheaper, think around 20% of the cost (Citywing's lowest fares are £59.99 each way from NCL), x2 weekly A319 with £20 each way with a trusted brand name and all those little details like... Flight attendants? Would undoubtedly be more popular.

EZY has created quite a market for themselves on the IOM too. But I think Citywing is quite a formidable competitor, I suppose we will see if EZY ever go after them IOM-BFS

[fa2fi]

Well in all fairness BRS has been without an IOM a service for quite some time yet that route is being revived, this time with an Airbus so anything is possible. Nothing surprises me these days.

I heard a rumour the Manx govt. pays some subsidy for new route. Not sure if there's any truth in it (im sure some make stuff up just for the craic!) but with NCL being a current route perhaps there's less chance of it switching to another carrier as there's no incentives for them and they would have them taking on the full commerical risk.

Potentially however it could work. It's accross the sea. There's no cheap or quick alternative so you should manage a decent yeild together with the lower operating costs of a short hop it could be a winner.

I however know zilch about the demand on the route nor the demographics IOM so who knows!

[nighthawk117]

I heard a rumour the Manx govt. pays some subsidy for new route.

They almost certainly do. Whenever a new route is launched from any airport, it almost always receives some sort of support from either the government or local council.

This often takes the form of joint advertising campaigns, or a direct subsidy such as the Scottish Route Development Fund, paid either to the airline or the airport to reduce landing fees. Other forms of support and incentives will also be offered to attract new routes.

[NCL-TRC]

Even with a frequency reduction to twice weekly and lower costs I still don't think EZY would have a chance at making it work, you have to consider the IOM flights don't operate every day and aren't always full to their 19 passenger capacity. I think EZY would struggle to get 50 per flight, the only airline I could see operating it other than Citywing is Flybe, the Dash 8s operating costs are much lower than an Airbus and there aren't as many seats to fill, but I still can't see it happening.

[EK77WNCL]

Well yeah it's definitely a long shot... But If EZY had an A319 sitting on the ground for 3 hours, they could do it no problem, less than 30 minutes there and the same back, 25 minutes on the ground, simples(-ish)

Still though, the current service is better than no service, there's been a service to the IOM as long as there has been an airport there...

[EK77WNCL]

Can anyone confirm that easyjet has pushed back the termination of AMS? I could have sworn it ended in April but is now on sale until 31st May

[SWBKCB]

always been the end of May, as far as I'm aware.

[EK77WNCL]

Ah well, my bad, pleasant surprise though

[Boris1]

Sooner the better. EZY are best focusing elsewhere leaving AMS to KLM.

[EK77WNCL]

Well possibly... DFDS will be loving it

Is there anywhere you can get airline specific stats from the caa? I.e to see the KL/U2 split on NCL-AMS etc. I'd also like to see TOM/TCX/LS/EZY split on leisure routes.

[SWBKCB]

No - CAA don't present their stats in that way.

[EI-BUD]

Re comments of an IOM route by easyJet, it's highly irrelevant that Citywing don't fill a 19 seater. The fact is that the final seats available on the aircraft come at a high price, as is the case with easyJet's model. However, there is no doubt easyJet could significant grow the market between IOM and NCL.

Routes like IOM LPL, BRS IOM are short block times hence if a rotation can be fitted in with no requirement for extra aircraft or cuts to other services, the maths could stack on a marginal costing basis . That said I feel it would be a stretch.

The largest markets ex IOM not touched by direct competition are Manchester and Belfast, and without multiple daily frequencies , simply won't stack for easyJet. Citywing did a fine job at seeing off Logan off the IOM BHD route before.

[EK77WNCL]

Yeah, Citywing must operate whereby they can break even with less than 10 pax and charge accordingly, EZY would probably charge £40 return vs Citywing £120-£160 return

[dwlpl]

The CAA do breakdown stats for a fee.

[EK77WNCL]

Do they? I'd be interested in breaking down the yearly stats, how can I find out more? I'd be willing to pay maybe £10-20, I hope it wouldn't be much more

[dwlpl]

Think you will be looking at least 10, 20 times that.

[EK77WNCL]

Oh crap...

[Hangar6]

Well get 20 like minded and we all contribute a share?

I would be interested in UK-p to ROI given the growth this year now that FR
Are getting more competition ex BHX NCL MAn EDI etc

[CabinCrewe]

.... you lot need to start getting out more with this talk of paying fees to see how your local small regional airport is doing...

[HH6702]

Instead put the money into helping get the airport some new routes

[EK77WNCL]

I don't think me walking up to the easyjet desk at NCL and handing over a fistful of twenties saying "here you go pet... Put this towards those new routes to Munich and Milan I'd like to see" is going to have much effect on what actually happens...

But yeah, providing it covers each UK airport for at least one year with comparisons I'd be interested in sharing the cost.

[JosuaNkomo]

Instead of inane drivel about passenger statistics and new routes why not get the airport authorities to make it look like a decent airport. Firstly pick off all the litter lying windswept on the airport fence up to terminal. Looks third world. Physically move the obese, poor,gross smokers from outside the terminal into smoking areas and enforce this.

[EK77WNCL]

Ermm... The smoking area is outside the terminal, I've never seen any massive problems with litter before at Newcastle and what do you want us to discuss? If passenger statistics is now on the banned list what's left...? Apart, of course, from your inane drivel about Newcastle being a third world airport

[fa2fi]

Well in all the fairness the airport looks pretty modern and spacious and is having further work in departure lounge done. It's a very decent airport. You only have to spend time in LTN, LCY or even BRS to realise NCL is actually quite good (never wait 30 mins at security, at the others its pretty standard).

That fence your talking about is fairly exposed to the wind and with the prevailing westerly the wind has blown all the rubbish from the car park toward it.

If the smokers are too moronic to read the signs or just plain ignorent then there's not much the airport can do. Smoking areas are clearly marked.

And if people want to discuss or pay money to view something they're interested in then that is their choice. After all people pay £50 to watch a bit of leather being kicked around a field and many hundreds of £ to watch it on TV throughout the year. Now that is madness.

[Jamesair]

The MODS will be watching from above :O

The thread needs to return to normal. We have a very interesting year ahead of us with a lot of new routes and even the long sought after New York starting in May.

[Jamesair]

The Summer 2015 Timetable is now on the airport website.

[HH6702]

AEA flights to Palma still shown??

Also Pegasus to do 1 x weekly flight and also onur air

Apart from that no surprises

[Jamesair]

The P & O cruise charters to Genoa and Venice are going to operated by Titan and Jet 2.

[EK77WNCL]

I've been through the timetable and picked up:

-One of the Verona flights still meant to be operated by Livingston?
-Has Prague been upgraded from x2 weekly to x3 weekly?
-Morning rotation to Krakow hopefully be positive
-Shame there's no real frequency increase from Jet2 :(
-AEA... Probably typo, hopefully not
-LPA dropped by TCX
-Has BCN always been x5 weekly?
-Murcia looking sad...
-Very slow re-introduction of Turkish carriers, 2 is a good start, look forward to more

[HH6702]

also looks like the above is canx for the summer

[EK77WNCL]

Ah shame, I thought DUB would go first. I think it's seen a gradual decline for a few years now though.

[Jamesair]

I hadn't noticed that we had lost Gerona. In the past Ryanair have usually replaced one route with another, lets see what happens.

[ash666]

What is it with BA???

If the forecast (doesn't even have to be actual) is for wind above 5mph they cancel flights.
If the rain is forecast to be above 0.1"/hr they cancel flights.
If snow is forecast within a 1000 mile radius they cancel flights.....

Why don't they just grow some ffs?

[fa2fi]

Been like that as long as I can remember. I'm pretty sure NCL went nearly three full days without LHR flight with the bad snow a few years ago whilst other domestics were running an albeit limited service.

[HH6702]

You have to ask why they do it at Newcastle everytime and not other airports

Maybe because pax can still get to London by using the train that leaves every 30mins...

Other airports maybe don't have this kind of help for the passengers

[fa2fi]

It's obvious why. But it's not asking too much to combine a few flights and operate at least one shuttle so those of us who pay the premium to fly BA get what we have paid for. Manchester has even faster even more frequent trains yet they do not seem to suffer as much as NCL. Not seen much disruption since its conception but I would be interested to see how LBA is treated.

[LBIA]

"fa2fi" LBA gets the same BA treatment. First sign of problems flights get chopped just like NCL. This mornings BA1346/1347 was in fact cancelled last night. Doesn't help as it only been operating twice daily for last 3 weeks, think it returns to been 3 daily next week.

Saying that we do have trains operating every 20 minutes between Leeds and London. Or you can drive it in 2 and a half hours down M1.

[Fairdealfrank]

Saying that we do have trains operating every 20 minutes between Leeds and London. Or you can drive it in 2 and a half hours down M1.
Those days are long gone, too many speed traps/cameras and too much congestion.

The last bit from Hendon to London (no motorway) takes the best part of an hour.

[ash666]

You wouldn't want to rely on the M25 to catch a plane (he says with feeling....)

[Jamesair]

Not sure if this has been commented on. Belfast City goes up to 2 x daily for summer 2015

[EK77WNCL]

Interesting move from Flybe, hopefully see some growth for the first time in a while

[Rain dog]

Interesting rumour of NCL being in discussion with a Swiss airline - albeit from a potentially unreliable source.

[HH6702]

Also talk of Turkish Airlines too

[EK77WNCL]

I'm sure we'll get Turkish within the next 3 years, and a Swiss airline? Interesting, couple of weekly Swiss to Zurich with Helvetic? What's the sources though?

[Jamesair]

Zurich would be a good route to get. Turkish, I expect will eventually happen. More German routes are needed, maybe that will come via BMI and their new agreement with LH.

[EK77WNCL]

Zurich would be very good, but ahead of Zurich I'd honestly have expected Lufthansa to Frankfurt to come first (although they have no plans to serve Newcastle) and also either TAP to Lisbon and/or Iberia to Madrid. Speaking of which I think we'll also see Iberia Express a couple of times a week to Madrid (if their new UK destinations go down well) and we're still waiting for Vueling.

[INeedTheFull90]

Again people are putting that spotter hats on before their business one.

TK would be good for near East destinations but nowhere that's not already covered by BA or AFKLM save for a few more rustic destinations within Turkey. IST will be just another hub flight (of which NCL has enough of) and will compete with EK and jeopardise the rumoured second daily DXB.

MAD is covered with IAG at LHR. Vueling hub at BCN so will push EZ off their longstanding route and will connect pax to flights already connected via LHR or CDG/AMS.

LIS possibly. I believe EZ has a base there. But if TAP were to operate it then it's yet another hub. Yes there could be a couple of interesting South American destinations not served through IAG but the amount of pax from NCL to these places must be fairly tiny.

All of these proposals will not stimulate more passengers but will just give them another possible routing to get to their destination. This potential increase to eight hub flights is not sustainable as yield would suffer.

[HH6702]

Ineedthefull90

I agree with you that if we get more routes to HUB airports it will effect the carriers we already have - but only to a point

Increases competition CAN not always be good for customer choice


But what your also saying now is NCL can't gain routes to places like MAD,FRA and Zurich and Lisbon as these are hub airports and will affect others ncl other carriers.

They may affect them but it also offers the passengers NEW places to travel to not all passengers will be connecting onto other flights some may well be doing business or leisure trips to these cites..

Bucket and spade holidays are only 6 months of the year we need to find new year round places that can work nicely from ncl...

[getonittt]

Again people are being patronising :

Again people are putting that spotter hats on before their business one.

TK would be good for near East destinations but nowhere that's not already covered by BA or AFKLM save for a few more rustic destinations within Turkey. IST will be just another hub flight (of which NCL has enough of) and will compete with EK and jeopardise the rumoured second daily DXB.


From which perspective are you coming from with the changing of headwear?
BA = one world , AF/KL = Skyteam , EK stand alone alliance, so are you saying a star alliance member (TK) would not want to jeopardise any of this?

[Ian Brooks]

Ineedthefull90
I don`t agree re TK as they have proved ex MAN and BHX they have a lot of onward connecting passengers as no way could they just fill 5 flights a day between those two airports just to IST

Ian

[EK77WNCL]

What are NCL's 8 hub destinations?, I count:

LHR, AMS, CDG, DXB as the ones people look for and consider real hubs with many varying choices of destination. DUB only offers transatlantic connections, EWR will be coming online which with Dublin make 4 hubs and two technical hubs, although the wide variety of US destinations will be welcomed. BRU? I think connections are offered but how reliably, same applies for CPH and DUS, I wouldn't really be counting those three, I think they are mostly O&D.

Istanbul would definitely be a good addition, it might steal *some* passengers of EK, but I think both would see growth, TK would likely become the most reliable option to TLV which would serve the large Israeli population, along with near east, much smaller cities than EK (I don't know how TK make them all work!) and again, more options to Asia and possibly a more sensical route to Africa. Plus Istanbul is a big tourist destination in it's own right

Lisbon, again, a tourist destination in it's own right, very nice coastal towns etc for 30+ miles around it and as mentioned, South American and African connections along with destinations like Madeira, they can be cheaper than TOM/LS and combine the two destinations.

ZRH/FRA, I know what you mean, not as much O&D, very similar markets, but until UA, NCL had no major Star Alliance carriers... Bigger offering might be nice (but not necessarily profitable)

MAD, controversial but IAG swapping one NCL-LHR for one NCL-MAD? Connecting to South America and Africa + European destinations?

Vueling, cheap connections, might result in EZY reducing frequency but I think they would hold their own.

[deecie]

Not counting Copenhagen as a hub airport is quite frankly nonsense.

[NCL-TRC]

ZRH/FRA, I know what you mean, not as much O&D, very similar markets, but until UA, NCL had no major Star Alliance carriers... Bigger offering might be nice (but not necessarily profitable)


Apart from SAS, one of the founding members of Star Alliance, and up until last September, Lufthansa who still have presence in the form of Germanwings.

[EK77WNCL]

Apologies, I forgot about SAS being in Star. Does the Germanwings flight still count as a star alliance flight?

CPH is an EU hub, but the available connections from NCL, are, from what I have seen few and far between.

More star presence, though, should help UA, and in turn UA help the other carriers in the long run.

[INeedTheFull90]

Currentl/coming soon:
LHR
DUB
AMS
CDG
DUS
CPH
DXB
EWR

Proposed:
IST
BCN
MAD
LIS
SWISS CITY

Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit much? It may be great for the spotter log books and short term for pax as fares fall.

But all will happen is that yields will trash, airlines will make less money and pull out, this means the surviving airlines will increase ticket prices for passengers and may even completely close a route.

TLV is a very price sensitive market as there is a lot of VFR traffic and already well served with NCLs other hub connections.

EZ may keep point to point BCNNCL as it is a longstanding route. Unlike FR whose 'Barcelona' service is about to be axed.

[SWBKCB]

I think the concern is a bit premature - DUB, CPH and DUS are very limited hubs from NCL and the "proposed" hub links are still very much at the speculative stage.

I'd put my money (and it wouldn't be very much...) on IST to be the first, but I think we are behind BRS in the UK.