BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL

[GAZMO]

Have to agree. Looks like the domestic routes are doing well for EZY
Will probably be fairly even in winter with the lost of EI but with BHX and extra flights to MAN and EDI coming on stream
Still disappointed that EZY have not put on any extra London flights
SEN is great news, 8.5 K pax in April and has steadily gone up to over 14K per month for August. Have to admit it is my preferred London airport now

[BFS BHD]

They have an extra flight to Luton from next year. ;)

[BHD2BFS]

Is that an extra daily flight or 1 extra weekly flight?

[GAZMO]

I think the extra flight to Luton is only on a Friday

[BFS BHD]

Yep every Firday and Gatwick is on the cards too and a few others...and Jet2 have stuff on the cards too.

[BHD2BFS]

What plans do jet2 have? Possibly ema?

[GAZMO]

Please enlighten what plans

[ILS25]

Anyone hear anything about a possible BA move to BFS ?

Been hearing a few whispers.

[SecondDog]

Around the time of the protracted EI saga, they were definitely talking to one and other but I never heard anything that sounded like a possibility. Thought it would be dead in the water with all the recent public announcments of their commitment to belfast and their praise for BHD, but I suppose stranger things have happened. Would they split the base?

[GAZMO]

BA have always talked about the Belfast route / service. Switching airports and it will still be Belfast.

Personally I hope they do switch to BFS as it would mean a later flight arrival froh LHR

[BCALBOY]

I am sure BA has negotiated a good deal with BHD and it would be difficult for BFS to offer something which would tempt BA to shift in the near future.
BA had been talking to BHD re moving there (in a bid to cut losses) prior to 9/11 when the decision was taken to pull out altogether .

BHD is more convenient for the majority of point to point business traffic ,particularly LONDON based travellers who tend to pay the highest fares and I believe BA would be at a disadvantage to EI if they moved to BFS and EI were at BHD.

As regards flight timings ,this is a red herring.
When BA operated to BFS previously, the latest dep from LHR was 1900hrs.
The latest dep to BHD in S13 IS 2005hrs ,i don-t think wnything later is required.

There will always be someone wanting a flight at 2300hr or 0100hrs because of their individual circumstances , but the bulk of high yield point to point, don-t want late flights.

The BA Shuttle schedule to BFS originally had evening deps at 1630,1830 and 2030. The 2030 was by far the weakest service for business travellers.They want too finish their meeting in LON and get back to lhr and to Belfast at a reasonable hour .

[AIRPORT66]

The last flight from lhr with bmi was always full and mostly buisness men through the week so demand for late flight back would still be there as for ba talking to bfs they have been and always will to keep the cheap landing deals going.

[BHD2BFS]

Problem with BA moving to BFS is that 1st they would want an airbridge which they already have at BHD and BFS management would really have to improve their business lounge product as it is no where near BA standard

[CaptJ]

As regards flight timings ,this is a red herring.
When BA operated to BFS previously, the latest dep from LHR was 1900hrs.
Not true.
There was a late flight on Fridays. Always very busy too.

[AIRPORT66]

The lounge and airbridge are the least of bfs worries they did offer ei and in the past bmi an airbridge there challenge is getting them there one of the advantages is ba could reduce number of flights and put any size of aircraft on the route then.

[BCALBOY]

Srry chaps , but I beg to differ.

The 1989 BA Shuttle schedule to BFS was 7/day ( 6 on Sats).
LHR/BFS 0830,1030,1230,1430,1630,1830,2030. (no 2030 on day6)
BFS/LHR 0715,1030.1230,1430,1630,1830,2030 (no 2030 day 6)

Due to loses on the route and the particulary abysmal performance of the 2030 service from BFS to LHR , a revised schedule was introduced.

W96/7 SCHEDULE
LHR/BFS 0830 ( not sun),1030,1300,1500,1705,1900.
BFS/LHR 0700(M-F) ,0815 (sa,su),1030,1300,1500,1700,1900(not sat)

This revised schedule reduced flying by c 14%.
It allowed the 2030 BFS/LHR to be scrapped.
The afternoon revised afternoon schedule meant BA operated 30mins in advance of the BD dep. on the 4 flts with potential to pick up businessmen on fleible tickets who arrived earlier. (BA/BD both optd fm BFS at this stage).

The 2100 dep on Fri was introduced later . Fri from LHR was always the busiest day and there was enough traffic to get a decent load at least on LHR/BFS sector but it was mainly lower yielding VFR traffic going home to BFS for the weekend.

It has been said both of this forum and others that you can-t judge the profitability of a flight by the loads.Yield is the critical factor.

Both carriers to a greater or lesser degree used Inventory Management to direct the low yield traffic to the weaker flights.The 2120 LHR/BFS on BD may have had ok loads ,particularly when BA withdrew the 2030 ,but it wasn-t high yield traffic

The best BA service LHR/BFS was the 0830 with Mainland based business travellers going to N.I. The 1700 was good.The 2030 when it operated
was towards the bottom if not the bottom.
Fm BFS the first dep in the morning was 1st or 2nd altho it also carried a lot of psgrs connecting transatlantic and the prorates pulled the average yield down.The 1700 was good with the mainland based business traffic returning altho again it was a good connector for the evening flts to OZ/FAR EAST/S.AFRICA . The 2030 BFS/LHR was the worst segment with loads of 30-40 psgrs not uncommon. ( eception being Sun nights with the weekend VFR returning for work on Mon).

[BHD2BFS]

I suppose they could reduce it from 7/8 flights from BHD to 3/4 B767 flights from BFS like I think they do from Glasgow

[clareview]

I recall arriving several times in the 80's on the last Friday night inbound BA from LHR (B757's often with BaC1-11 as the back up) to find we parked up at the international gates. The reason was that the aircraft then operated a holiday charter over night to, I think, Faro. it weas back to operate back to LHR in the morning. Good use of resources. I think BD did the same thing from time to time

[Skipness One Echo]

A business route needs frequency, that's why BA have so many A319s at Heathrow.

[BFS BHD]

Not sure this has been posted...

Not bad times this year, But only running for less than a mouth-
7 May 2013 - 21 May 2013

*Every Tuesday*

BFS-PMI
15:35-19:25


PMI-BFS
12:45-14:45


*FOR TOM (Thomson Airways)*

[GAZMO]

I believe air Europa had a short stint this year as well

[Mlinnie]

In summer 2010 I think Air Europa operated It throughout the summer months I was lucky to fly with them to Palma great airline !

[BFS BHD]

I hear BE is to come and do a few flights to Salzburg with their E-175 or E-195 in December.

Anyone else hear this??

[GAZMO]

Notice on wiki Flybe doing winter flights to Salzburg staring December

Maybe more !!!!

[BFS101]

Gazmo, do you know what tour operator this BE flight is for??

Would seem that Direct Ski have chartered Jet2 to operate BFS SZG, departing as LS2151 at 08.55 returning as LS2152 at 14.55. This is an increase in capacity for them, as if I remember last year they used BE from BHD.

BE still operating to SZG from BHD on behalf of Crystal / Thomson Ski, departing 07.25 as BE9151.

A third weekly flight from BFS / BHD to Salzburg on the cards??? That's in addition to Inghams operating the INN with Austrian.

[BHD2BFS]

Are they still going to fly to Salzburg from BHD or is the company they do all the charters for going to use BFS instead, i think it's topflight

[BFS101]

Perhaps Topflight Schools, as Topflight don't appear to have a winter program on-sale to the general public from NI.

Was it Topflight Schools that chartered the FMM last year?? Could this be as an alternative. Strange surely not to utilise BE from BHD though??

[GAZMO]

The person posting info on wiki appears adamant that BE are doing some winter flights from BFS. like the rest of you I cannot trace the holiday charter company

[panpanpanpan]

Is it just me or have the Belfast/Belfast City threads been hijacked by spotters?:zzz:

[ILS25]

And your point is ?

[panpanpanpan]

My point is there seems to be very few posters who really know whats going on and not having looked at pprune for a while it seems to have got worse. Listing timetables and schedules is not worth reading for me and I`m sure others as well or am I just being grumpy this morning?:E

Is niaviation not the place for spotters where they can compare what aircraft flew the BA09785736346 on 45th Julember from Belfast to Ballygobackwards and who the skipper was and what seat they sat in etcetc:zzz::zzz:

Does anyone from inside the fences at our airports have anything of value to add, thats my question? I speak not as an employee or a spotter, just as an interested businessman who loves flying and how the industry evolves and changes.

I`ll get my anorak and flask and be off now...:hmm:

[EI-BUD]

I just being grumpy this morning


Panpanpanpan, outside of your usually valid contribution, yes maybe a tad grumpy! :). It might upset you though to hear about a movement...as follows.....

The Antonov will be visiting start of November to ship the first C Series wings to Canada, the movement of the wings by road from Belfast to Aldergrove will be done overnight. The reason for using the Antonov is not the weight but the length of the wings. Incase anybody is interested.

EI-BUD

[BFS BHD]

An-225 or An-124 ??

[EI-BUD]

Im not sure about which Antonov, have a feeling it wont be 225, as there are not too many of them floating around! Possible 124, though I will know something more definite soon. Will keep you posted.!

[NWSRG]

Just the one operational AN-225...would be quite a sight off 07. But I suspect in this case baby brother will do the job.

Have to say, PANx4 has a point...the minute detail of every schedule is not really that interesting...I fear we have lost the contributions of industry professionals on this page as a result.

[GAZMO]

I noticed EZY had a flight arriving at 7.55 this morning from LGW and departing again at 8.40 back to LGW. Does anyone know is this a one off?

[tigger2k8]

1 off no doubt, I would say its related to the cancellation of an inbound and outbound LGW last night

[GAZMO]

Just thinking that the EZY timing today would be excellent news for the NI traveller. Naturally still waiting on EZY announcement of their extra London Flights but I think an early arrival will suit the business market and likewise the returning flight to LGW would be two hours the first flight

Time will tell

[SecondDog]

The Antonov will be visiting start of November to ship the first C Series wings to Canada, the movement of the wings by road from Belfast to Aldergrove will be done overnight. The reason for using the Antonov is not the weight but the length of the wings. Incase anybody is interested.

EI-BUD

Hey Bud, I think the Antonov starts this coming friday. I believe it will arrive about 8am and depart around 8pm but then my info is second or third hand so it may have been changed to November.

[BFS BHD]

Seen on yesterday evening 'UTV Tonight' that Ryanair and BFS are in talks for starting european routes. Anyone hear anymore??

[SecondDog]

Ryanair for BFS ??
Seen on yesterday evening 'UTV Tonight' that Ryanair and BFS are in talks for starting european routes. Anyone hear anymore??

Easyjet will be delighted :ouch:

I actually think it is a good move to bring them in if it does have any basis in fact. It stabilises the airports' bargaining position with Easyjet. Ryanair are the only LCC who could replace them if they threw the toys out of the pram.

[BHD2BFS]

I don't think easyjet would pack up and leave NI if Ryanair came in. Surely BFS must be a good money makeshift for them, sure they might reduce size but I don't think they would leave.
Is there an article about this on UTV website?

[BFS101]

While I would imagine that EZY would be far from happy, there are many airports where both airlines operate. NCL appears to be a sizable EZY operation, and FR operate albeit only a few routes. STN, LTN, EDI, LPL to name but a few. Perhaps maybe because these are much bigger markets.

If FR don't compete on domestic routes were the market would be limited for such a supply of seats, and perhaps open up currently unserved routes, then perhaps it could work. If history repeats itself though, all that will happen is they will cherrypick already well served routes, there'll be a bloodbath with unsustainably low fares, and then a carrier will pull off.

While I'm no great fan of FR, if they were to open up routes from NI, I think that BFS is a better fit airport to operate from, kepping BHD more business / regional focused, and a pleasant experience to pass through on the whole.

[MerchantVenturer]

Bristol has had an easyJet (originally Go) base since 2001 and a Ryanair base since 2007, currently with 11 easyJet aircraft and 5 Ryanair.

The only routes the airlines go head to head on are the popular sun routes: Alicante, Malaga, Palma, Ibiza, Faro, Tenerife. They split the other Canary Islands between them as they do with such countries as Poland and France.

There are some others that are close such as easyJet to Barcelona and Ryanair to Girona and Reus, and Ryanair used to operate to Belfast City against easyJet's route to Belfast International. It stopped when Ryanair pulled out of BHD.

This could change, of course, and obviously a similar situation would not necessarily apply at BFS.

[SecondDog]

anyone track down an article yet?

[ILS25]

Excellent news if true. Say what you like about ryanair but they would give px numbers a much needed boost. Would love to see them at BFS.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

If it happens I can't wait to see which airport makes the biggest yearly loss....

[ILS25]

It will of course have to be Belfast City, theres no way that BFS are going to hand out free landing fees will nilly. Not as long as Abertis are at the helm anyway.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Then why be in talks with FR. If they want them thats exactly what they have to do.

[BHD2BFS]

I know at the moment BHD looks like the sparkly new airport ( compared to BFS anyway ) with the recent appeal to airlines. But the bottom line is BHD is making next to nothing and with all the promises they have made to aer lingus they arnt going to make much money off them either.
They promised the world to Baby to the extent that they built an internationals arrivals hall which wasn't cheap for them, for baby to get shut
down and it now laying empty
The bottom line is that BFS may look tired and be out of the way but it's a business that makes money and won't bend over for FR which is why FR has never made an appearance at BFS, my own opinion is that FR sees potential in Belfast and is now willing to have sensible negotiations with BFS

[ILS25]

I believe the above to be 100% correct. Theres no way BFS is going to give anything away for free, and if they gave FR free landing fees it would be a massive risk to take as EZY would go mad to say the least.

I also believe that BFS will have a heathrow link back before the second half of 2013.

[NWSRG]

I also believe that BFS will have a heathrow link back before the second half of 2013.

But who with? EI can't change again so quickly, so do you think BA are on the way up the road, or VS domestic?

On the FR issue...they would be a fit with BFS, but the EZY connection with BFS is so strong, FR will have to pay a fair price to be there. BFS would welcome the business, but not at a price that would alienate their biggest customer.

[Skipness One Echo]

I also believe that BFS will have a heathrow link back before the second half of 2013.
London is already over served as it is, BA aren't moving to BFS and EI are moving out. I think VS would be in GLA before they looked twice at Belfast, if indeed they start at all.

[GAZMO]

EZY have added new flights to LGW . Looks like four extra per week Mon,Wed, Fri Sun

10.15 depart 12.05 return

Source NI Travel News

Full report as below

Another Gatwick Flight and Onboard Catering Boosted
https://mail.ulster.ac.uk/owa/14.2.318.2/themes/resources/clear1x1.gif
Northern Ireland’s largest airline is to increase its flights between Belfast International Airport and London Gatwick in response to high demand.
A 10.15am flight from Belfast and a 12.05pm flight from London Gatwick will be added to the schedule from December 20. Flights are now on sale at the airline's website with fares from £20.99, one way including taxes.
EasyJet began its Belfast International to London Gatwick service in February 2003 and has flown 3.3million passengers on the route. The additional frequency will add an estimated 80,000 passengers per year, taking the total to 400,000.
The airline also flies to London Luton, London Stansted and London Southend from Belfast International and recently celebrated hitting the milestone of 20,000 passengers flying on its London routes each week.
Ali Gayward, easyJet Commercial Manager said: “London Gatwick is performing really well for us. We operate the first flight out of Belfast in the morning and the last flight home. Our aim has always been to make travel easy and affordable and we’re delighted to be able to show further commitment to Northern Ireland by adding the extra service."
Meanwhile the airline has also announced an upgrade to its Bistro menu which is now available to all passengers onboard. As a direct response to passenger demand, easyJet’s menu will now include a greater variety of filling snacks with sweet treats such as Belvita Yogurt Crunch, mini cupcakes, chocolate brownies and cranberry and oat cookies from £1.20. The airline has also increased its savoury menu to include Heinz Chicken and Vegetable soup, pitted olives and a luxury nut selection pack from £1.50. The airline has also added to its onboard Boutique which now boasts additional skincare and beauty accessories.

[BHD2BFS]

Looks like the passengers who dont want/ can't follow EI to BHD has settled with LGW instead of Heathrow. Good news for BFS. I can't see numbers being affected too badly by EI move
On the same subject EZYs LGW will not be affected by the launch of EIs but only 1 airline will survive on this route at BHD but who will it be?

[GAZMO]

I can see Flybe struggling at BHD, but I dont think EI figures will be fantastic either

Last two months caa stats for LGW were 24,000pax p.m. to from BHD and 32,000 pa to from BFS. (56000 pm for both airports) Even if there is a small increase in the overall LGW pax the load factors I feel will be poor at BHD so EI or BE will suffer low yield and low loads

I think at best
EI 14000 pm maybe 15,000
BE 14000 pm maybe 15,000
EZY 34000 pm

Views welcome on this

I can still see BE shifting their non competitive routes from BHD to BFS

[BHD2BFS]

i to can see BHD becoming a green airport with EI and EIR. with BE cutting there loses and moving routes such as EXT SOU CWL ABZ INV EMA to BFS and making a small but strong and profitable base out of BFS
At the end of the day I couldnt see EIR trying to replace these routes from BHD as they dont fly to SOU or EXT and these are both FlyBEs home turf, ABZ or INV as BE has the franchise with loganair and EIR dont fly to EMA (ok i know they could start but BE have a strong customer base on these)

As for the LHR route returning to BFS i cant see it, but possible a Paris route by AF or LH to Frankfurt?

[GAZMO]

Agree BHD2BFS

I feel it would make sound advice to maybe move up the road initially and cover EXT SOU CWL ABZ INV EMA to BFS and make a profit to initially cover any potential loss on other routes eg LGW. They will probably fight for their share of the LGW market......they have seen competitors come and go

Agree cant see LHR coming on the horizon but would be great to see German and French routes although LH and AF are finding it tough at the moment

[Tower Ranger]

If only the recent London Olympics had a Clutching at straws competition this thread could have entered a Gold Medal team.
All of a sudden all the folks that deriding Ryan Air are now welcoming them with open arms, what a fickle bunch this spotter brigade has become.

[tigger2k8]

I still stand by my comment awhile ago when the last FR rumour cropped up. If they came in and started new routes without competing with EZY then it would be positive. Although i doubt such an agreement would be made.

[GAZMO]

Agree
If FR looked at routes such as EMA, reus, girona, Madrid, etc with maybe a small overlap on Stansted and Preswick then this should be good for FR and EZY as well as NI as well

[Mlinnie]

Aren't Jet2 rumored to be starting EMA ? Also regarding Ryanair if they come to BFS wouldn't it affect the LDY operation ? And wouldn't they just start the same old routes in competition with Easyjet so they can get rid of Easyjet and have the market to themselves ? They seem to do that a lot I mean look recently at cork they're starting the same polish routes as Wizzair

[CARNMANORLAD]

I don't see RYR arriving at BFS anytime soon for a few reasons. They will want next to nothing landing fees which BFS won't give unless they're willing to offer EZY the same. Again don't see that happening as it will have an effect on profits which Abertis are very much in to. RYR will of course give EZY major competition on routes which at the minute BFS can't risk. Also IF RYR did arrive at BFS it would have a detrimental effect on the LDY operation. I have used the European routes from LDY on many of occassion and the amount of folk from the Belfast and surrounding area was unbelievable, upon making friendly conversation with some i found it was down to price. I would also assume that RYR will give LDY a considerable boost of new routes and increase frequency on others for the City of Culture year.

[left rudder]

Good point Carnmorelad

The RYR "Belfast" Eglinton operation is a success. Why would they move to "Belfast" International?

[BHD2BFS]

Simply because the market is limited especially with European destinations

[True Blue]

I am very confused. Post 1068 refers to the number of pax using Fr out of Ldy from Belfast. Are these some of the same pax who cannot/will not travel out to the wilds to what is known as Bfs as it is far too far to have to travel? Or is Ldy/Dub closer to Belfast than Bfs?

TB

[Jamie2k9]

This is not the first time that FR/BFS have held so called "talks", since the last time which wasn't to long ago, the only thing has changed is that EI have left BFS and where LDY is concerned they have scaled back some of there sun routes to peak months.

I would be very surprised if they could agree terms at all and for them to fly anything other sun routes and Eastern European routes.

[panpanpanpan]

So let me sum this up - when FR were at Harbour = bad for everybody, doomed to failure, take pax away from BFS, etc ad nauseum.

FR possibly go to BFS = brilliant, cant wait, Harbour is stuffed, cant wait to see the losses posted etc etc:confused::confused::confused:

I would imagine both airports are probably in contact with Ryanair and others, they would be foolish not to. When Ryanair were at Harbour I dont think they annoyed FlyBe that much. By the same token why does Easy have to have the monopoly at BFS? If your product is right and your pricing is competitive then people will book flights, if its not then they will take their hard earned money elsewhere. The joys of an open market.:)

I have said before, competition is good, I`m sure if FR do go to BFS they will grow the market considerably, whether that is poaching customers from other airlines or creating a brand new customer base remains to be seen.

[EI-BUD]

When Ryanair were at Harbour I dont think they annoyed FlyBe that much


I would agree with this comment, the figures would also bear that out. Flybe continued to grow LGW number month on month when FR landed on STN BHD route. FR were carrying up to 30K pax per month yet BE still saw some growth on their LGW route. Similarly PIK didnt impact GLA to any significant extent in terms of number, and FR's PIK route wasnt performing especially well.

EZY are resilient and well established, that coupled with customers who are creatures of habit may see FR struggle to make the big impact that people would expect them to have. FR seem to have moved away from challenging EZY to any great extent and the two carriers co exist quite comfortably at many airports and on many routes.

On domestic front I cant see FR looking at much more than EMA, that's if they come at all. If they did return to BHD add STN and LPL to that list.

On routes to the continent if FR can bring some new markets and new routes then it would be overall a good move, but simply moving onto AGP and FAO will simply serve to make life hard for all involved. Nonetheless, the question is will BFS want to put a spanner in the works of any efforts of BHD to establish Euro routes..
EI-BUD

[BFS BHD]

Looks like no extra flights or no new routes have been uploaded (Could be wrong about the extra flights!).

[GAZMO]

Agree, looks like LGW will stay at up to 5 X Daily

Has EDI lost the extra Tue and Wed flights. Maybe the extra EZY planes at EDI will cover these

No new aircraft or destinations

[BFS101]

Are there any obvious reductions in frequencies to destinations for summer 13? NCE, IBZ etc.

[AIRPORT66]

Looks like they are not picking up any of the slack left by EI maybe someone else is being lined up for that LS,RYR.

[GAZMO]

nice still three times weekly and Ibiza once per week

Agree surprised EZY not putting another aircraft in for the summer 13

LS or FR!!!! I can see LS coming, maybe EMA twice daily, extra flights to canaries and maybe increasing FAO since Thomson withdrawing the FAO flights next year.
FR, I would be surprised but with MOL nothing is a surprise

[Mlinnie]

Yes I can see Jet2 starting East Midlands, maybe even increase Alicante (What with EI gone). Also is there a chance that Jet2 or Easyjet would start Venice or Milan ?

[GAZMO]

EZY did operate Venice twice weekly but pulled the route. Think LS also tried Milan. There would probably be a better return on MAD or LIS...possibly BER

Could see LS going back to BCN on opposite days to EZY, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday

[EI-BUD]

Jet2 were the one who originally did BCN and VCE, they were also the sole operator on PRG, then when they decided to follow EZY onto some of the sun routes, EZY responded by joining them on those 3 routes, and 2 were axed. I would think LS would go back on BCN as they opted out and at that time, the market was stronger in terms of demand.

Would FR be interested in doing BFS from Canary Island bases and EMA and strike a good deal with BFS and no conflict with EZY? Would be no need for based aircraft at BFS as a result.??

[panpanpanpan]

Any truth in the rumour Aldergrove are looking for a Tumbleweed Operative from the start of the winter schedule?:E

[BFS BHD]

Would EZY not want to try Reykjavik from belfast from next year, I could see it as a good route for EZY and BFS. I see they are starting at Edinburgh and Manchester. :)

Any views on this is welcome! :O

BFS BHD

[GAZMO]

A twice weekly flight to Iceland would be feasible
Icelandexpress initially offered this service on a mon and fri but dropped the route before it was launched

I believe there are enough destinations with good yields and
LF for EZY if thet would base another aircraft at BFS

London....SEN has proved very popular, 14.5 K passengers last month, yes Iceland and what about MAD, LIS, BER plus menorca if they want an extra bucket and spade route.
By summer 13 BHX would probably need to go three times daily and twice on Sunday

Views welcome

[BFS BHD]

I think EZY will need to add a third flight to SEN and BHX.

Still waiting for TFS, LPA, ACE and (TXL or SXF) to be added!!

I think EZY should base a 7th aircraft and start new routes SOON!!
Getting boring the same old bucket and spade routes.

BFS BHD

[True Blue]

Panpan

sounds like a very ideal job for you, hope you have your application in

TB

[eastern wiseguy]

PanPanetc......... asks


Does anyone from inside the fences at our airports have anything of value to add, thats my question?


Then helpfully adds


Any truth in the rumour Aldergrove are looking for a Tumbleweed Operative from the start of the winter schedule?

Way to encourage dialogue.

[panpanpanpan]

Didn't take long for the Aldergrove fan club to bite! Maybe a sense of humour is not welcome in your club? :oh:

Maybe it's time to accept Aldergrove may well be a busted flush. The glory days of years ago are gone, the much needed investment didn't happen when it was doing well and there probably isn't the cash available now in these austere days. Harbour has raised its game from literally nothing while Aldergrove management past and present treated the potential threat from them with disdain, I think that has perhaps come to bite them now though. :eek:

Incidentally I see Harbour have released their financial report, some more interesting reading. Doesn't look like a struggling business to me at first glance anyway.

[ILS25]

Can't disagree much with the above. I do support BFS but I can't look at the place through rose tainted glasses.

No worth while investment since Abertis took over, just a relocation of a few stud walls here and there and a "quick lick of paint will do" attitude. The only money they spent was for that big empty building that leads up to central search where the queuing times are terrible during the few busy periods they have.

It pains me to say that BCA management have got their heads screwed on and Aldergrove is a laughing stock as far as an airport authority go. Take BCA's PR team for instance, look at the unveiling of the Mary Peters named Flybe aircraft as one example of good publicity. What do Aldergrove announce ?

BCA can announce the soon to be arrival of EI

Aldergrove announced the arrival of a few NITB concrete cows last month, I think the next announcement is that the Sunday market at Nutts corner will be relocating onto runway 25 to take advantage of the more favourable weather conditions.

So far we have heard rumours that,
FR are coming to BFS
Flybe and BA are moving to BFS
Virgin are coming to BFS

And I hate to admit that I believed some of that maybe true. Time is running out for some sort of miracle.

Aldergrove, as a civil airport is 50 years old next year.

Now where can I get that application form for the tumbleweed operative ?

[tigger2k8]

It's a good job they decided to do the departure food and retail area when they did or it may never have been done....

While I agree it's disappointing that we have not heard anything substantial for winter, I believe that the increase of domestic flights by EZY will offset the loss of EI in terms of flights per week during winter. Some airline out there is bound to want to run a summer schedule on EI's ex-bfs routes.

As for the tumbleweed job, no need to hire, plenty of people up there to keep an eye on them.

[panpanpanpan]

It's an interesting exercise to compare investment over the last 10 years or so,

Harbour- new terminal, has also just completed an international arrivals hall. Runway resurfaced. New runway lights. New ILS on both ends. New NDB. New radar, primary and SSR. I believe they are also in the process of tendering for 3 new fire engines.

Aldergrove- 1 large bucket of B&Q value paint, 1 bag of quick set cement for runway repairs, err that's about it! Oh, mustn't forget about the supply of lemons that their security staff must chew before starting work.

It's no great secret that Harbours owners paid way over the odds for the place yet there is still money to invest and according to their accounts still a healthy profit to be made. :confused:

[BHD2BFS]

When an airport can't even get routes to an airport it also owns ie Cardiff, what does that tell you about the management

[dog in park]

But don't forget to add the city cannot cope when it gets a bit if fog and planes have to divert......but forget about yesterday.

[panpanpanpan]

The present and last Big Boss at Aldergrove are ex Harbour bosses, how does that all fit in to the mix? Surely they would have taken the knowledge of how Harbour did business with them??:hmm:

I'm reliably informed that a major headache for Aldergrove is the amount of cash spent on the top heavy NATS contract. The ex Harbour bosses must cringe signing off on that contract when they know what it could really be done for!:ugh:

[panpanpanpan]

Not sure what you mean Dog??? Surely now Harbour has the new ILS they will be able to cope better?

[irishlad06]

what dog means in yesterday morning there was really low cloud base at BFS and two aircraft diverted back to the mainland, just as another two were about to make the call to divert to BHD they got the all clear to land at BFS.

[dog in park]

Its put about planes can land in fog up there but at city they divert . yesterday .EZY and CO all diverted in morning and city were fine

There were 3 diverts
.

[BFS BHD]

There is Extra flights to Palma, Gatwick, Luton, Faro, Edinburgh and Malaga all for next year.

[tigger2k8]

I heard, I stress the word heard.. That the ILS had technical problems, had it been working it would have been business as usual

[BFS101]

Ryanair would close EI Belfast base if it got the green light for the EI takeover.

Ryanair plans to close Aer Lingus base at Gatwick if takeover bid succeeds (http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2003382&c=setreg&region=2)

Ryanair will shut Aer Lingus bases at Gatwick and Belfast and open a new base in Brussels to serve non-Irish routes if its bid to take control of the Irish carrier is approved by the European Commission, it revealed yesterday.

Strange if the EI base in Belfast is supposed to be profit making, and FR also have no presence at either Belfast airport....

[Shamrock350]

Ryanair stated yesterday it would close Belfast and Gatwick in favour of a Brussels base! Stephen McNamara thinks Aer Lingus should compete with Brussels Airlines and easyJet.

Ryanair offers fresh concessions to snare Aer Lingus | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/04/uk-ryanair-aerlingus-idUSLNE89301T20121004)

I wouldn't take much notice of what Ryanair say about Aer Lingus in Belfast.

[FRatSTN]

Ryanair did operate from Belfast City however they only use the 737-800, which had to oeprate with a minimum of 40 empty seats (which limits revenue to each flight) so it could take off from the short runway there. Because the runway extention never got the go-ahead, Ryanair pulled out of BHD. Aer Lingus use the A319/20, which can operate fully loaded from BHD if using full-throttle take-offs. I think the chances of Ryanair doing the same is slim since it would increase fuel costs. Ryanair never do full-throttle take-offs wherever it can be avoided.

Ryanair do not seem remotely interested in BFS and it's not really much of a surprise. It's bigger and more expensive whilst being further out from Belfast and to top it all, 85% or more of its flights are operated by EasyJet! I dare say if BHD got a runway extention to 2200m or whatever it was, Ryanair would without doubt be back in their like a shot!

[FRatSTN]

I'm fairly certain an airport's location in relation to the city it serves has never been a top concern for RYR.

No it hasn't. But they will nearly always choose the lowest cost airport regardless of whether its 6 miles or 60 miles away from the citt but of course most of the time it's the further away airport that best suits them. In Belfast's case, City is the smaller airport and more ideal in Ryanair's mind. It's also the case in Rome and Gothenburg, where Ryanair uses the airport closer to the city since they are the smaller ones. (small/closer Ciampino instead of bigger/further away Fiumicino) and (smaller/closer Gothenburg City instead of bigger/further away Landvetter).

[Mlinnie]

Quote:
being further out from Belfast

Um... I dont think FR would be bothered by that look at some of their bases 'Glasgow' Prestwick, 'Frankfurt' Hahn, 'Milan' Bergamo, 'Paris' Beauvais, 'Stockholm' Skavsta, 'Rome' Ciampino. Lots of ryanair's bases are miles away from their Main destinations

[FRatSTN]

Yes but like I said, Belfast-City is the smaller and lower cost airport. I don't know of any cases where they use the further away airport when that's the larger/much expensive one. In Milan, using Bergamo rather than Malpensa or Beauvais instead og Charles de Gaulle or Orly in Paris is a way of cutting costs. Using Aldergrove rather than Belfast City doesn't follow that rule.

[Jamie2k9]

I don't have the performance figures to hand but I'm not sure EI's A319/A320s could depart BHD with 144/174 bound for TFS/ACE/LPA

Hense why these routes are not being offered from BHD, its was being pointed out that the current offering from EI at BHO is not restricted where as it would be with FR.

Just on the distance form city to airports. Milan BGY is the same distance from Milan as Milan MXP.

[panpanpanpan]

Jamie - have you not been told before, ITS NOT BHO!!!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[FRatSTN]

Milan BGY is the same distance from Milan as Milan MXP

But Malpensa is the main airport of Milan and has much better public transport so can be accessed much faster.

[Mlinnie]

I see that someone's out on the Wiki page that FR are starting East Midlands from next year...

[Mlinnie]

So with Easyjet starting Birmingham in a couple of weeks how are bookings looking on the route ? And how are the bookings looking on Jet2 Tenerife and Lanzarote ?

[GAZMO]

BHX looks ok judging by the fares. Most domestic flights tend to book later. Going by this MOn, Friday and Sun looks good
Based on the MAN start they had 8K plus in the first month so probably similar I think going up to 12K plus after a few months once PAX get used to EZY on route

It will be interesting to see how allocated seating will help the figures

Still disappointed that EZY have not allocated another plane for summer 13

[EI-BUD]

The last day of operations from BFS for EI will reflect the following;

Flights to Malaga and Alicante will touch down in Dublin on the outbound and operate back nonstop.. due to very light bookings on the way out. Interestingly enough flying BFS DUB ALC is cheaper than flying DUB ALC on the same aircraft!

Faro and Lanzarote will be nonstop.

Both 319s will position to BHD, first one on Sat after arriving from LHR at 2040 (to operate 1st LGW), second on Sunday morning to arrive at BHD 0630 (to operate 1st LHR). (EPS & EPR)

The 320 that comes back up from Lanzarote will return to Dublin.

EI-BUD

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Schools have a week off from 26 Oct down here.

Faro is alos via DUB on 26 and 27 Oct

[EI-BUD]

Faro is alos via DUB on 26 and 27 Oct


And Malaga on 26th...

[GAZMO]

Can anyone see EI making a go of LHR and LGW this winter?

[EI-BUD]

Gazmo:

I think that LHR will do fine, will do just as well as BFS route did and maybe a bit more profit. Gatwick will take a while to establish and will be tight enough, though my guess would be that Gatwick numbers will grow significantly overall as a result of the extra capacity. easyJet might feel a bit of a pinch, lets think back to FR arrival at BHD, EI arrived at same time. So the effect of EI launching 4 daily LHR at that time and FR launching 5 daily at that time on STN was that easyJet dropped LTN STN and LGW by 1 each day so LGW went from 6 to 5 and 4 somedays , STN similar I think went to 4, so if I recall easyJet probably took 3 rotations out per day.
Effect was that overall number grew quite strongly. Again FR had rock bottom fares.

Passengers who are choosing the options of winter city breaks may be attracted to London as opposed to some of the Euro routes, add to this easyJet have cut back on some routes over winter compared to LY, and EI's own Euro routes have been withdrawn so I would imagine London routes will see a nice boost, particularly LGW.

I believe EI will perservere for as long as it takes to make LGW work, the sun routes will be a good money spinner and this is so strategically important for BHD, so EI need to make this work...

[GAZMO]

EI BUD
I like your thinking but with
1.EZY putting on an extra flight to LGW it appears that they are not withdrawing flights as happens with FR arrival at BHD

BE is going to fight for market share.
Even if EI hits 16Kpax per month that's taking one third of BE pax and one quarter of EZY pax......can't see it some how

With BE connections at LGW with BA and their own I feel there will only be a small reduction in numbers. Likewise EZY are attacking the business market more with allocated seating etc

LHR is reducing based on caa stats. OK they had four flights last summer compared to three this summer, but BA is upping the flights to max 7 per day and I believe BA has a stronger brand image than EI. Previously BA sold many flights for EI to link with the LHR operation, even on their website they are not doing so now.

I believe the EI operation will decrease to about 16 to 17K pax per month from the current 20K

Looking forward to the November stats

[EI-BUD]

Gazmo; much of what you say is true, and yes BA are in a stronger position for a host of reasons, but lets not forget that EI have a good platform to market their existing Belfast London customers, those who have flown EI before will be on the mailing list, EI have strong offers and they will feed BA to some extent at LHR from BHD.

Yes CAA Stats are decling for EI ex BFS but last year BFS LHR peaked at 32k pax and came close to Bmi at 36K, it was a great July, this year flights to London were not great and overall EZY report very soft booking for July during Olympics time. Ignoring all of that not only did EI reduce capacity, but they ended up putting 319 on most if not nearly all of the rotations, moving the 320 to the Canary routes and to Faro, so the disappearance of bmibaby created some profitable opportunities much to the cost of LHR.

The ironic thing about CAA Stats is that we might expect say for e.g. that Belfast London route is about 160k pax per month, when competition comes about it could grow by 10-15% I wouldnt be surprised if the price equation is right and as I said earlier a lot of ppl will do short break in London on impulse, so not only conversion from Euro flights which will be down but impulse trips certainly if the prices are low.

My guess is that BE will take a hit of 7K pax per month between now and year end, progressively rising to that level and the overall EZY mix from BFS will lose about 6K pax per month, otherwise the STN numbers ex BHD may be converts to LHR or LGW on bargain fairs. So my guess is for EI (though we wont know for sure what the split is) 20k per month on LHR, (word is EI secured some good corporate contracts for ex BHD that used to be bmi customers) LGW I will suggest 12-13k pax per month by year end.

So overall that would suggest based on my estimation that
BHD LHR will go to 55k pax per month
BHD LGW will go to 28/29K pax per month

We wont be able to judge very well the EI performance on either unless we have inside info as the CAA Stats will be cumulative for the 2 airlines on each route.

Thinking about WW when they moved MAN and BHX to BHD the totals on the route were approx equal to the combined usual MAN and BHX to BFS...

Time will tell....

EI-BUD

[GAZMO]

EI BUD
Interesting and well thought out views

I would agree with BE losing 7k and EZY maybe losing 6K but many pax have a preferred LON airport. OK some will change depending on price but let's add on another 3 K per month to LGW that equals 16 K pax, even with a few more that's less than 100 pax per flight. Yes I know they probably have a zero cost agreement with BHD but these are low LF.
SEN I believe is doing very well nearly 15 K last month so if price is a factor, and of course it is SEN should increase.

Would love to hear from someone at EI about advanced bookings on LGW

Also forgot to say that customer like himself who used EI from BFS to LHR might not use them once they move to BHD.
When I have to connect at LHR I always used EI from BFS, primarily to BA routes. If I have to connect via LHR in future it will be BA from BHD. I wonder how many pax are like myself in this respect

[mart901]

Given all this talk of how well EI is/will do with bookings what do people think about the 4th daily rotation on LGW next summer? Is this just bullishness? Are they seeing strong bookings? It will certainly make for a better schedule with more options. I agree with EI-BUD I think they will do well on LHR whatever the weather, LGW will probably be a much more cost centred battle, perhaps unless BE cave in or go because of the landing charges changes at LGW. BHD will certainly have a vast swathe of flights to LON.

[GAZMO]

I don't think BE will cave in they have seen off opposition in the past

I can't see a big drift to EI. Why? BE have their connections via LGW and codeshare with BE, yes their profit and numbErs will reduce.
EZY have put on an extra flight from mid December, nor withdrawing from this route but increasing.
With SEN doing well and extra weekly flight on friday to luton LGW I believe in number terms for EI will just be oK nothing special

LHR will reduce for EI because of BA and forget LHR unless you favour LHR or are connecting EZY want BUSINESS pax

[sarcon]

I do admire the blind enthusiasm in the green corner!

A few facts to consider,

Recently BHD had around twelve daily flights to London, while BFS had about sixteen. This winter, with the mad lemming rush at BHD, there might be up to 20 daily London flights with around 14 EZY London flts from BFS.

Many of the EI BFS LHR travellers will switch to EZY BFS LGW et al - Fact.

EI have no hope of gaining the level of awareness and custom on the LGW route that EZY enjoy, given EZY's strength of presence at both ends of this route (see bmibaby STN for previous experience). For that matter flybe are likely to fight to hold their BHD LGW market.

As for Heathrow - take a look at the relative loadings since BA brand came back. EI's only LHR diferentiator of note was BFS!! If we were about to see 3 daily BA flights v around 8-9 EI I might give the greens a fighting chance, but the other way round.........!

Finally - this idea of brilliant prospects and yields on European routes from BHD. We were all advised that bmibaby to the sun from BHD was a storming success, but BA couldn't wait to get bmibaby out of BHD specifically, pronto, once they took over, in order to arrest losses as quickly as possible, if I remember correctly. Light loads by necessity from BHD to Malaga etc is going to be a challenge whenever other airlines can operate cheaper and unrestricted from not too far away.

That said, I wish EI success and hope that they don't end up spending a night or two in the hostelry at BHD on their way straight back down the road to Dublin. :)

[True Blue]

Sarcon, well said. I am one who now has Ezy flights to London booked where previous I would have used EI. I know others who have done the same. EI had one market to go after to Lhr, those west of the province who didn't want to travel all the way to Bhd. They don't have that now and with Ezy moving to allocated seating, another part of the ad campaign to be changed. And where is the 1000+ extra pax going to come from per day to keep that Lgw service going?

TB

[GAZMO]

True Blue

Well said. I am like yourself in that I am switching to EZY....allocated seating...great
I especially agree with the view that we do not want to trail across the city to fly to LGW. If you live N, NE NW,W,SW, S much easier to BFS. Even in Belfast if your live N or W Belfast just as easy to nip over mountain road to BFS

[panpanpanpan]

Going by the style of writing and the wording used, I am becoming more and more convinced that a few individuals on here have more than one callsign. Any ideas Eastern???:hmm:

[GAZMO]

Eastern?? Can't see them coming to BFS

Still think opportunity for LS to expand

also BE could move non competive routes eg SOU EXE CWL to BFS

Keeping wondering if management at BFS are going to do anything about new operator to LHR
Maybe they will offer BA zero cost and even if they don't accept it could drive down the costs on the BHD to LHR route?

[j636]

Eastern?? Can't see them coming to BFS


Dom't think the post is aimed at an airline but another user

[BFS BHD]

Think he's just trying to start a fight has he normally does!!! :rolleyes:

[eastern wiseguy]

And he will fail .

For info.I have ONE id on here. I had blocked him but reading between the lines it seemed like it was me he was talking about.

He is back on my ignore list.

EW out!

[BFS101]

With the recent partnership between the Thomas Cook group and easyJet, would seem that this has changed the BFS schedule somewhat. A very quick look shows Thomas Cook / Airtours now offering packages to Malta, flights to AGP and FAO using EZY. Also some PMI flights using EZY.

Haven't had a thorough look, though will this mean an overall increase in the Thomas Cook operation from Belfast, with the based unit and now additional EZY capacity??

[tigger2k8]

I would nearly put money on there being more than 6 A/C based next year for summer, especially with the TCX deal.. unless another airline(s) jump in

[j636]

Anyone know why FR diverted a flight from Dublin to Belfast this morning. I was the only flight diverted from DUB.

[ALLMCC]

The flight in question actually diverted to BHD and has just departed BHD for Dublin - not sure of the reason for the diversion.

[BFS BHD]

Thomas cook B753 has just departed to ACE after getting fuel, looks like Glasgow still has fuel problems.

[GAZMO]

Another good month for BFS going by latest caa stats, up 4.3% compared to Sept last year and 6.2 on the pass twelve months

Wonder how the stats for November will vary

[BHD2BFS]

Still should be good growth for this year, must be almost up 200k year on year

[GAZMO]

Maybe a little more....losing 35EI weekly flights but gaining 20 from EZY and LS and with another 5EZY flights to LGW in December. It could be status quo between BFS and BHD depending on the change in passengers on LGW, EDI, MAN and BHX flights by EZY

[Mlinnie]

The only main loss really from EI is LHR. BHX/SEN will probably make up the loss of them passengers. And LS/TCX will cover the Winter demand for the Canaries.
But this continuing rise in passenger numbers this year, surely EZY & LS will be looking to expand ? Hopefully LS will start East Midlands next year and it would be great to see Rome, Milan, Madrid and Berlin back next year too.

[GAZMO]

Agree

As posted by tigger TCX using EZY next summer out of BFS there is a great opportunity for LS and EZY to increase their presence.
LS as long as they do a combination of key cities plus the bucket and spade routes
Interesting to see if SEN grows. I was a little disappointed at the figures in Sept after a fantastic August. I think the difficulty is in pax getting to the airport for the 7am BFS flight since the first train to SEN arrives at6.01 am....somewhat tight for a 7am flight. Maybe with the winter start of 7.15am it might help numbers

[BHD2BFS]

Over the last 2 years the only airlines to expand at BFS has been EZY who has added 4 routes SEN MAN BHX and Malta. LS has also added 4 Alicante Lanzarote Tenerife and Reus
EI has been slowly reducing destinations over the years and size of aircraft, at the end of the day EI isn't necessarily a major loss for BFS apart from LHR
I am quite disappointed management have not been able to find a replacement airline such as MON

[Mlinnie]

I think MON opened a Leeds Bradford base recently so I don't think we'll see them anytime soon unfortunately

[BFS BHD]

Yep Leeds and East mids

[GAZMO]

Interesting comments by sammy Wilson regarding APD on BBC website

Looks like no reduction in the near future for short haul flights.....a little short sighted I believe, surely loosing some money from NI block grant will boost tourism and business

[PPRuNeUser0176]

BFS-Verona showing on EZY app.

[BHD2BFS]

Seen that to, hopefully they will announce more than just the one. I wonder if this will be in replace of freq on another route

[AIRPORT66]

Is that the skiing charter they have done for the past few winter seasons.

[GAZMO]

I think the Verona flights was on the app last year, not on the main website

I believe charter ski flight

When you check the route on the EZY app it comes up as Invalid route!!!!

[tigger2k8]

Yes its the BFS-VBS for the local ski company, runs for about 2 months every Saturday

[PPRuNeUser0176]

It wasnt on da app last week as i checked and all routes that are not on the main site come up as invalid route

[BHD2BFS]

anyone know how todays 1st flight to BHX went? good loads?
aparently BFS managment dont find it important enough to put on their website or by looks of things to even invite the media. if it had been a flight from BHD it would have mate top story on BBC website :P or am i being too harsh?

[EI-BUD]

BHD2BFS
The 1st flight doesnt go until tonight at 1 per day stepping up to x2 daily from next week.

To be fair to BHD they are good at local marketing, eg the george best lookalike competition for EIs launch etc, not sure if that is EI initiative but has BHD marketing style behind it.

BHX airport website has as its headline, new link with EZY to BFS, certainly BHX will be very keen to make easyJet routes work as a priority, surely being hopeful of additional EZY services in the future.

Loads will be soft to start on BHX as MAN was, but will come good in time once it becomes established.

Plenty of staff travel seats left this evening, so not heavily booked, as expected.!

EI-BUD

[Straightahead]

BHD2BFS
There was a photo shoot this morning with easyjet top brass in checkin and on the apron, even a nice big cake.:ugh:

[BFS BHD]

Looks like a A320 is being based at BFS for Birmingham by this website-(Routes News - easyJet launches Birmingham (http://www.routes-news.com/news/item/738-easyjet-launches-birmingham%E2%80%93belfast-route)) but likely wrong.



EasyJet has today (October 22) launched the only daily service between Birmingham Airport and Belfast International Airport.

The new A320 service will increase on October 29 to two flights a day on weekdays and one on weekends. The low-cost carrier said the route was aimed at the region’s business passengers by providing a regular service between the two cities.

The route was previously operated by the now defunct bmibaby until it consolidated its operations at Belfast George Best City Airport in 2011.

Ali Gayward, easyJet’s UK commercial manager said: “We’re excited to be celebrating easyJet’s first year-round route from Birmingham. The move marks easyJet’s commitment to strengthening its network across the UK with a particular focus on supporting business passengers.

“Our schedule, with flights operating at peak morning and evening times, also reflects our continued focus on meeting the needs of business travellers, as well as offering leisure travellers affordable access to Northern Ireland.”

BFS BHD :)

[GAZMO]

From the Birmingham thread it looks like 140+ pax on the first flight to BHX yesterday. Judging by advertised prices it looks like a good start for EZY

[tigger2k8]

I heard that it was more around the figure of 50 on the BFS-BHX sector and around 120 on BHX-BFS.. Could be wrong but find it hard to believe it would have been at 140 on the first night

[GAZMO]

Maybe someone who has "the insight" at BFS or EZY could give us a more accurate figure

[GAZMO]

Comment from Belfast Telegraph

Company Snapshot: Belfast International Airport Holdings Ltd. - Company Profiles, Business - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/company-profiles/company-snapshot-belfast-international-airport-holdings-ltd-16228164.html)

Still making a profit!!

[EI-BUD]

From the Birmingham thread it looks like 140+ pax on the first flight to BHX


There were 40+ empty seats out ont the first flight. So it definately was not 140+ on the 319.

[True Blue]

The BHX thread referred to the flight ex Bhx to Bfs, not from Bfs

TB

[BHD2BFS]

I think it's time they invest that money in the terminal. Gotta spend money to make money

[GAZMO]

Rather see any money invested in attracting airlines

An airport is just a functional building, arrive two hours before your flight, check in, pass through security, grab a cup of coffee or drink, a quick read of the paper, if you have time and get to the gate. BFS will never be a major hub and most pax only spend less than two hours in the building on the way out and much less when arriving back

[BFS101]

Very true Gazmo, but the same could be said for BHD, and their terminal is much more pleasant. Granted we don't need anything extravagant or ostentatious, but BFS really could do with a new terminal.

Each element is pleasant enough, check-in hall, new area approaching security, shopping area; but it's just so piece-meal. The international pier is depressing and boarding 'lounges' dated. Arrivals also not exactly modern. The more pleasant the experience, the more passengers are likely to return.

Airlines will operate where they think the money and catchment is, but can you imagine the Emirates executives travelling around all the potential airports, auditing their facilities, and then coming to BFS!!

[SecondDog]

I think it's time they invest that money in the terminal. Gotta spend money to make money

I'm pretty sure they have invested money in the terminal, its just not terribly visible on the outside where everyone notices (with the exception of the new lift/stairs area at the front of the building)

They've also redesigned the airside retail to the point where it looks respectable.

The problem I think everyone would agree on, is that they need a new terminal but in terms of 'speculating to accumulate' that would be a long wait for the recoup, never mind making any money.

Of course there are 'Development charge' options for terminal departing passengers but the city-based BBC et al would crucify them for it (might even make them go there to do a broadcast :D)

[GAZMO]

Bad enough paying £1 to "kissandfly" but a departure tax would be the death of BFS

Yes BFS101 I agree the management could do a little more airside. Vacant sites of which there are at least two (plus ex Boots area) should even to given away at rock bottom prices. Better something than boarded up areas. Normally I do not venture to the International wing until the flight is called. A little thought could go a long way

[samsara]

lets face it - bfs is a dump Having been in bhd for the first time in 5 years recently i was very impressed with the pax facilities. Its a real shame whats happened to bfs over the last 5 years - it could all have been so different

[BHD2BFS]

BFS will never change until somebody new buys it. I can't remember who ran the airport before the current owners but if someone new buys it they can't run it any worse than currently, they must be B&Q's best customer for budget white paint

[EI-BUD]

Dear All,

Say what you will of BFS but they have seen growth this year. They have added new routes (reinstated others) to BHX, MAN (ok added last winter but helping growth) and SEN etc.

The net loss of EI is a total of 5 flight a day in Winter (based on LY figures) and 7 in summer a day.

Easyjet have added SEN x2, MAN x 2 (going to 3) and BHX x1. With Jet2 adding a few rotations, BFS wont be far off the mark.

So not being bias in favour of BFS and not getting into the slagging match about which of our local airports is better than the other, we will wait and see how the figures pan out.



EI-BUD

[GAZMO]

With loganair stopping DUN flights from 2nd December at BHD maybe a few more pax on EDI flights to BFS. good job EZY are increasing their schedule!!

[Buc Driver]

Now that the SEN route has had time to settle in, does any one know how many of the passengers using the service are new customers as opposed to folk switching from STN to SEN.

[GAZMO]

Difficult to say. Looking at the caa figures I think overall if you combine STN and SEN the figures are up, but last year WW did operate from BHD.

SEN approx 10 K pax per month not a bad figure, but I think the morning flight from SEN to BFS has lower LF, probably due to the fact of getting the train from London to SEN for the 7am flight. With 7.15 flight in the winter schedule it may improve

[GAZMO]

Notice TCX have a flight to Enfidha tomorrow? Is this going to be a weekly flight for the full winter period?

[EI-BUD]

So a second 320 is coming to do last LHR rotation this evening, releasing the 319 to position over to BHD at 1720... Where is 320 coming from and at what time.?

[IrishFlyer2013]

Notice TCX have a flight to Enfidha tomorrow? Is this going to be a weekly flight for the full winter period?

This flight is a once off. Due to the Halloween Holidays, TCX have put on a flight to Enfidha.

There will be a weekly flight from Belfast to Enfidha from the 24th of February until the 5th of May 2013 and then from the 29th of September to the 27th of October 2013.

[KNT544]

The last EI from BFS :(

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/99210066/last%20EI%20from%20BFS.jpg

[tigger2k8]

A sad day, but good luck to them. I am sure we will see one or two back over the winter.

[Mlinnie]

How were the loads on the first flight to Lanzarote this morning ?

[BFS BHD]

Just to let yous know that the UA flights UAL94/95 are cancelled due weather in USA until further notice.

[GAZMO]

Looking at BFS departure and arrivals it seems to be EZY with the odd LS

Maybe the previous post on BHD will spur the management at BFS to look for other carriers......URGENTLY

[Mlinnie]

As posted on the BHD trend it seems BFS are getting a new airline next year.
But Who is it most likely to be ???
Flybe ? Ryanair ? BA ?
It would be great next year if we get a Canadian and German route back

[GAZMO]

Mlinnie

Either these guys are in the "know" with the management at BFS or an airline, or maybe just a "windup" Time will tell

[GAZMO]

Since I was told off for putting on the wrong thread I have reposted on BFS

"Like your thoughts EI BUD
Regarding the two possibilities, FR could make a go of it if they stayed away from most the EZY destinations, maybe Reus, GIR, MAD, LIS and maybe Warsaw etc on the European front and domestically EMA and I suppose STN would have to be included since they have a large prescence there. Competing directly with EZY will not benefit either airline, only the customer will win with crazy prices

BA on LHR. Personally I would like to see it but whether they would move I think is unlikely even at rock bottom rates. However they could provide a later arrival to BFS which might suit the business market

EZY on the LGW will be fine at BFS provided they have the frequency at key times

London market now has an extra 21 flights from EI, 5 from EZY from 10th DEC to LGW, and you could include and extra one ( STN down by one but SEN up to two)
I think there is an over supply on this market"

[GAZMO]

Looking at the BFS arrivals and departure board on web at moment and all are flight codes EZY wonder when the last time that occurred

[BFS BHD]

Theres even a BIG gap from 10:20 to 15:10 where there is NOTHING arriving. :rolleyes:

[BHD2BFS]

I don't think BFS management can refuse deals with airlines now, especially ryanair. it's not just the airlines they make money off ( although obv the most) and when the airport is quiet people still need paid, restaurants and shops can't make money if it's quiet.
They need a replacement ASAP
Where BHD lost Baby they where on the ball and got EI to replace them almost straight after
What has BFS management got? To my knowledge nothing

[GAZMO]

I would have to agree but cannot see any airline coming in until start of summer schedule
Ok a few rumours on the BHD thread, I know shouldn't have been there, but the only option I see is either FR, LS or EZY?

[BHD2BFS]

Maybe BA is coming to BFS?
Although I do think it's time we got our Canada link back but it's quite hard now a days when LCCs such as fly globe and zoom are gone
Maybe 3-4 flights a week to Germany by EZY or german wings
Madrid by Iberia express? All we can do is guess until something is announced

[GAZMO]

Certainly I agree with Toronto. I can remember Zoom, Flyglobspan and Air Transit operating so a twice weekly flight in the summer and once a week in winter I think is feasible. AC to Toronto with connections to further Canadian destinations?

[BHD2BFS]

I wonder if there will be a marginal drop in PAC numbers on the UA flight now that EI have left. I noticed a few times that people transited through Belfast on the code shares

[GAZMO]

Will be interesting but on my last two flights to the USA I have flown out via BFS to EWR and onwards but return journey had to fly via LHR and then EI to BFS

With EI gone from BFS I have had to be more select in my timing so in January it will be via BFS to USA and back to BFS again via EWR

It will be interesting to see how many pax EI might lose

[left rudder]

GAZMO
Note you managed 7 posts over >14 hrs yesterday. Such diligence must have it's rewards!

Do try and get out a bit more as your anti aviation posts are dragging the Belfast threads into disrepute.
I for one am committed to encouraging the continuous development of air routes from all three of NIs airports and your support would be welcomed by all like minded members of the aviation community.

Otherwise I suggest you migrate to Belfast City Airport Watch where you will feel more at home:suspect:

[GAZMO]

Left rudder

I have flown from all three NI airports and they all provide a good service

Do I have a preference ? Yes BFS is closer and I don't have to travel through the city to BHD, but in the past year I have flown with all airlines out of our airports except Manx2

As a regular user, three times every month I do think I have a right to express my views

I would agree with you that I would welcome any route development fromNI

[richardnei]

Jet2 have started releasing Winter 2013/14 flights.

BFS-TFS operating 2 x week. Tue/Fri departing 08:30
BFS-ACE operating 2 x week. Thu/Sun departing 08:30

The above twice a week flights begin in September 13.

On a similar note the LS BFS/TFS flights started today. Apparently it was fully booked on the outbound.

Any chance Jet2 could start a BFS/LPA next winter on a Mon or Sat. I think i remember them doing it before for 1 season with the 757 before it stopped.

[sealink]

Just been looking at the departures and arrivals for today, saturday and i cant believe its so quiet. I know from experience Saturday in winter is quiet but the number of flights is very poor.

[tigger2k8]

Good news for long haul tax

Air Passenger Duty reduced to zero on all long haul flights from Belfast - Belfast International Airport (http://www.belfastairport.com/en/news/1/189/air-pasenger-duty-reduced-to-zero-on-all-long-haul-flights-from-belfast.html)

Now lets see if we get any of the rumored routes..

[blues-on]

Great news. Now lets work on reducing or removing APD entirely.:D

[BHD2BFS]

Well we now have lower tax than Dublin so there should definitely a Canada route on the cards now
When are we getting this announcement that someone mentioned last week about a new airline from next march or something

[dublinaviator]

Honestly can't see it making a difference. US, Canadian, and Middle Eastern carriers will continue to use Dublin as the primary access point to the island of Ireland.

The most BFS can hope for with this move is that United will increase frequency on EWR-BFS back to daily.

[Mlinnie]

Is BFS-EWR not already daily ?

I Think this is brilliant news ! Hopefully we will get a Toronto and Orlando (With Virgin?) route restored and maybe a route to Middle East (Etihad, Emirates or Qatar)

Not only that the long haul tax includes flights to Egypt. So maybe we could see some long haul charters (TCX or TOM to Asia or Caribbean ?

[BHD2BFS]

I some how doubt the middle east, not only because of emirates and etihad flying from Dublin but I really can't see them being too impressed with the amenities and services available for their business class passengers
At the moment the airport really is only suitable for low cost and charters. I'm sure United management can be very impressed with the dirty and tired internationals pier and basic business lounge

[GAZMO]

First of all its great news

The majority of pax are going to be in economy. UA to Newark 12-14 business pax max. When they arrive they are straight of the plane , through UK border and out of the airport.

Yes I agree could BFS improve the pax experience ....yes....most airports could

Toronto I think yes, Middle East unsure but maybe Qatar seeing the success of the other Middle East carriers may look at BFS as an option

If American Carriers are using SNN, ok for summer only BFS may also be feasible for more US routes

[EGAC is Better]

Honestly can't see it making a difference. US, Canadian, and Middle Eastern carriers will continue to use Dublin as the primary access point to the island of Ireland.

The most BFS can hope for with this move is that United will increase frequency on EWR-BFS back to daily.

Does EWR not go back to daily after winter schedule?

I agree with you about Dublin's place as primary gateway though. It would be great to see some new/re-instated long hauls from BFS, but from a catchment area perspective DUB wins hands down.

Any new carrier wishing to serve everyone in Ireland is always going to serve Dublin first unless someone in Government here pays them a lot of money! Even then it still mightn't stack up for a carrier and they would likely retreat to DUB after any subsidy ended. Before anyone points it out, I know UA stayed but lets not forget they threatened to go if APD wasn't addressed.

Sad for us folk up the road, but nonetheless it has been proven as reality.

[Skipness One Echo]

Isn't the key issue that DUB is now more accessible than it was in the days of more long haul at Aldergrove? It's much more commercially viable to serve the island (see what I did there?) from Dublin rather than split the assets and costs across multiple entry points.

[GAZMO]

I can see your logic regarding one airport. Small regional airports are struggling, just look at Waterford, Galway, Sligo, Donegal. However I do think Ireland is large enough for more direct links from BFS.

Most pax will not mind driving 1.0 hour to an airport. For me to fly to from DUB its a three hour drive. OK when flying out of Ireland, not a pleasure on the way back when you are tired

Maybe Ireland should have only FIVE major airport, DUB, ORK, SNN NOC and BFS

I think that comment might stir the hornets nest?

[CCR]

Would largely agree with your comments Gazmo but would add Derry and Kerry airports to your list.

[Hangar6]

Sometimes the airlines say it for us,

Today three United flights to ISLAND ...

EWR SNN cancelled and SNN EWR cancelled
EWR BFS cancelled and BFS EWR cancelled
EWR DUB cancelled and DUB EWR cancelled
IAD DUB IAD doesnt op on a thursday

assume bad weather in NEWARK , B757-200 planes

Delta jfk dub jfk cancelled also again B757-200 ,

seems to me no USA carrier has the correct winter equipment given EI are operating jfk dub jfk x2, so maybe its nothing to do with airports, demand even but more to do with suitable year round equipment ?

[GAZMO]

LS 6339 from Ouarzazate arriving this evening

Anybody know anything about this flight?

[eastern wiseguy]

Belfast Tele trip to/from Marrakech....maybe?

[left rudder]

Enjoyed you post GAZMO

Three hours drive to North Dublin!? By deduction I have now established that you live on Rockall:)

[AIRPORT66]

I go to Toronto every 2 years if Bfs gets the link restored i know what airport i will be flying from never flew from Dublin anyway always went from Lhr.

[dublinaviator]

seems to me no USA carrier has the correct winter equipment given EI are operating jfk dub jfk x2, so maybe its nothing to do with airports, demand even but more to do with suitable year round equipment ?

I hope you don't mean aircraft because a plane isn't a car, you don't stick chains on the wheels and put anti-freeze in the engine whenever it starts snowing. Yes you use de-icing equipment to prevent ice build-up, but all aircraft are built to the same standard and undergo the same extreme weather testing, regardless of whether they end up being used on domestic or international flights.

The reason Aer Lingus was able to operate it's flights to New York is the same reason Delta is able to operate it's flights to Dublin when the weather is bad there. Both Delta and United have extensive networks out of JFK and EWR, and as such a handful of delays because of bad weather can cause a huge backlog later in the day and result in the cancellations we've seen. Aer Lingus on the other hand hasn't had any delays this side of the Atlantic, and as a result there's no backlog of flights and it has been able to operate it's flights to New York as normal. If any of it's aircraft get stuck in New York because of snow build-up, then that might change.

Delta and United actually have a worse headache to deal with than Aer Lingus when it comes to delays, because a lot of the aircraft they use for T/A ops are also used for US domestic flights. At least when Aer Lingus have delays in their T/A ops, it's largely confined to their T/A ops and doesn't spill over onto their European network.

[GAZMO]

The joyful comments of left rudder. yes I do live in the north west and it does take three hours to Dublin airport. Yes in Belfast its 100 miles to Dublin, just under 1.45 hours. Maybe you have your own personal helicopter to transport you. "Please beam me up Scottie"

[CCR]

Its a pity the Derry to Dublin flights are no longer. Guess we`ll have to wait a couple of years before the Dublin to Derry motorway is finished for journey times to improve GAZMO.

[GAZMO]

Your right it will be a long time they can't even extend the M 22 to the tome bypass. Maybe before I depart it will be a shorter journey to BFS and DUB

[Mlinnie]

How many A320's are operating in BFS tonight ??? Seems to be about 3 arriving at the moment (LTN, BRS, STN) and I think I have seen 2 depart in the last hour (LPL,GLA) ?

Are any of them based at BFS for the winter ?

[BHD2BFS]

Anymore news on this rumoured new airline for S2013 they would need to announce something soon

[BFS BHD]

No new airline anymore :oh:

[BHD2BFS]

Please elaborate BFS BHD

[BFS BHD]

Look at these gaps, something needs sorted out soon!!!


EZY604 Liverpool 12:35
EZY606 Liverpool 15:10
EZY266 London Stansted 18:20

[GAZMO]

Agree to a certain extend. Saturday always quiet at this time of the year, but certainly BFS could do more
Since you are a regular poster What would you suggest to fill up Saturday slack?

[BFS BHD]

I currently work within this industry but I am not prepared to comment on the specific job role but I would suggest in order to fill these gaps a few early ski charters, increase of winter sun destination such as Eqypt, Dominican Republic, Cuba and even Virgin Atlantic to Orlando.

[GAZMO]

Interesting views. OK Egypt is starting next year, and I have to admit Cuba would be nice but maybe limited.
Personally I feel the Canaries could increase, EI had seven weekly flights at moment only two plus TCX, but surely key European destinations such as MAD, BER and LIS would be welcome starting next year

[BFS BHD]

Just been made public!!!

SATA Airways are coming to BFS next year.

Will operate to Madeira on the 3rd June, 8th July, 5th August, 2nd September and 28th October 2013.

ATLANTIC HOLIDAYS LAUNCH SUMMER 2013 FLIGHTS TO MADEIRA - Belfast International Airport (http://www.belfastairport.com/en/news/)

[BHD2BFS]

Do we not have these flights every year, not by SATA but I wouldn't really call it exciting news, now of they where launching schedule services to Madeira that would be a different matter

[GAZMO]

Probably using SATA rather than Jet2
Also on BFS web news a one of to Iceland in late April

[Mlinnie]

So any news on scheduled routes for 2013 ??

[EI-BUD]

Iceland is a one off trip, package. Not frequent or scheduled, I understand.

[BFS BHD]

Using SATA instead of MON :ok:

[GAZMO]

New routes.....probably need someone who is close to the mgt of BFS to answer that one. Cannot help and do not want to spread rumours

Iceland a one off, however I can see it being just as popular as Funchal, so maybe travel solutions will introduce more especially if the one off fills up quickly

[EI-BUD]

Iceland a one off, however I can see it being just as popular as Funchal, so
maybe travel solutions will introduce more especially if the one off fills up
quickly


I cannot see Iceland being a big hit, or a long term arrangement. Iceland Express were not happy enough with forward bookings last year when they put it on the schedule, which was linked to the Edinburgh flight, yet EDI was kept started at that time by them. So many other routes to sunny climates and didnt last including Rome and other and many seasonal year round routes by various airlines including Berlin, Gdansk, Warsaw, Budapest, Venice, Toulouse, Munich, Milan and so on.

What about Orlando, Toronto...

Funchal has potential if it is marketed to the summer holiday market correctly, would be a draw from the usual front runners including Majorca, Canaries, Faro and Malaga.


EI-BUD

[GAZMO]

Agree EI BUD that Iceland express maybe had poor forward bookings, but like Funchal five or six flights during the summer could prove popular with good returns

[EI-BUD]

You are probably right GAZMO, but again this is the challenge, asking an airline to take a risk on a very seasonal route, not tried or tested, in the peak season contrasted to a strong holiday route/market such as Sun spots is a hard sell.

You will probably agree that we need some all year round routes and with some luck BFS will be able to get Toronto reinstated next summer, though the clock is now ticking.

Some feeling that FR were in talks, well that was certainly hinted by people close to the airport recently but that seems to be dead in the water, so I dont expect anything new for next summer. Nothing much going to happen. Jet2, easyJet and United will be the fixed scheduled operators. The rot has stopped i.e. loss of carriers with EI's departure, though will we see some BE services come over, unlikely?

The only think I would be watching is will easyJet want to mark it LGW territory with a LGW BHD link to supplement its BFS link, if the numbers prove challenging, I wouldnt rule it out.

As for new carriers, possibly a few charter operators I would imagine, Aegean again? Sata coming, possibly more? What about flights to Turkey, Onur air? Cyprus?

[GAZMO]

Certainly would agree about Toronto. Not that long ago it was Zoom, Flyglobespan and Air transit. Toronto twice weekly in peak summer and once weekly in winter!!
Would like to see some more major European destinations, and if launched soon the airline would have a relatively long lead in time
Bucket and spade routes are good for leisure in summer months but as jet2 recent comment it is more difficult in the winter time, limited ski routes

[frequentflyer2]

Lisbon has the potential to be as successful as Barcelona. It's a year round city break destination and is also the airport for the summer sun resorts of Cascais and Estoril. Passenger numbers would also be bolstered by people making pilgrimages to the shrine at Fatima.

[GAZMO]

LIS, MAD, FCO, BER.....yes city breaks important but if assembly wants incoming tourists, improved business links, these are the destinations with large populations.

I am NOT suggesting daily flights but thrice weekly, except FCO twice

[BHD2BFS]

Looking at tomorrow's arrivals there is no flights for 5 hours from 10:20-15:10 how can the management not be worried about this and trying desperately to get a new airline in. I would love to be a fly on the wall at one of the management meetings

[GAZMO]

Yes disappointing and as I have expressed would love to see more European destinations, but we have to realise its midweek and mid November, a quiet time for flying
Fingers crossed for summer 13

[GAZMO]

Notice BHX figures on caa web site. Although just launched and only had 13 flights in October LF looks like 71% I think EZY should be relatively happy with the start

[Mlinnie]

Great to hear about BHX ! It will probably do well !
But the thing is I don't know how EZY can expand on the domestic market out of BFS much further... Maybe increase some of the London bound flights and Birmingham and Manchester.
Now they should be looking at longer destinations particularly European cities (The Canaries, Berlin, Madrid, Lisbon, Rome, Milan and the Eastern Mediterranean)
And another point, look at Cork, there seems to be strong rumors of Cork getting a Frankfurt route. How come we can't get one ? Or even a German route for that matter ! Even Knock can !

[EI-BUD]

Now they should be looking at longer destinations particularly European cities (The Canaries, Berlin, Madrid, Lisbon, Rome, Milan and the Eastern Mediterranean)


easyJet have just seen AerLingus off the Belfast scene for the winter in terms of Europe, they have not increased frequency to make up for EI capacity cut.any at all as the demand is not there, and certainly demand with yield is not. There objective is to drive yield on the small number of routes that they have. Makes sense in terms of sustainability.

Belfast in terms of longer flights is quite seasonal.

Jet2 not doing much winter work in recent years reinforces this. They have now moved to fill well developed aer lingus gaps at lower frequency to ensure demand exceeds supply and hence yield satisfactory.

EI-BUD

[AIRPORT66]

The high landing charges have to play a major part of the airport not been able to attract an airline to fly a route to europe domestic flights are different they need less people to justify the average pax number to sustain a european flight is 100 / 110.

[BFS BHD]

With the G8 Summit due to take place in NI next summer will we see Air Force One B747 at BFS and other big Aircrafts! ;););)

[KNT544]

How about landing AF1 into St Angelo ;)

[BFS BHD]

Would love to see that :cool: :O

[NWSRG]

Would love to see some heavyweights at BFS, but DUB and SNN will also be options...I wonder will St Angelo see any government bizjets?

I suspect AF1 will be a likely for BFS, as the Secret Service have worked closely with PSNI on a number of occasions now, and the military side of the field can accomodate the supporting fleet.

Potentially...AF1 (and the spare), C17s, 744s (Japan / China), IL96 (Vlad the impaler), A3something (France / Germany), Fiat 126 (Italy)...

[EI-BUD]

How about landing AF1 into St Angelo


This is entirely possible depending on what type of Aircraft it is of course.
Bill and Hilary Clinton flew into LDY before, on that ocassion airforce one was 757, at which time Bill Clinton was president if I remember correctly,however, most likely that this one would be as big as that or 747.

The pics of this used to be on CODA website which seems to have been overhauled and they have vanished!

EI-BUD

[NWSRG]

on that ocassion airforce one was 757

In theory, I suppose they could bring the 747 into BFS, and then a very lightly loaded 757 from BFS to St Angelo! Would love to see that...:p

I wonder how far Marine One routinely flies...would BFS to Enniskillen be more than 'routine'? A helicopter ought to do that run in about 30 minutes.

[KNT544]

Quote:
How about landing AF1 into St Angelo This is entirely possible depending on what type of Aircraft it is of course.
Bill and Hilary Clinton flew into LDY before, on that ocassion airforce one was 757, at which time Bill Clinton was president if I remember correctly,however, most likely that this one would be as big as that or 747.

The pics of this used to be on CODA website which seems to have been overhauled and they have vanished!

EI-BUD

I should have remembered where I was and stated in one of the Boeing VC-25.

[True Blue]

Flew Ezy last night at 7.00pm and returned this evening at 7.00pm to/from Lgw. Both flights 95%+ full. No sign on these two flights that the EI service is doing them much harm. These are flights that would have seen me use EI to Lhr previous.

TB

[GAZMO]

Judging by caa stats EZY still doing ok on LGW although BHD to LGW also very good. Are BHD pulling pax from other London airports?
Once EZY start their extra flight to LGW in December plus their allocated seating I think they will do fine
Can anyone state how the BE flights to LGW are doing?

[EI-BUD]

The CAA stats who reflect anything of the new LGW situation ex Belfast's airports given the that latest stats for CAA are for October, and EI started on 28th ex BHD!

EZY may well be increasing LGW BFS but lets not forget STN and LTN are down on frequency to as few as 3 per day. So net net I the capacity ex BFS hasn't grown, BHD up significantly but market overall not that much new capacity given
- bmi baby withdrawl
- easyJet cutbacks
- EI start of LGW
- Flybe reduction

We shall see, I feel that if EZY feel a big pinch on LGW they may well put in an appearance at BHD for LGW??

[GAZMO]

EI BUD

Agree that the last caa stats only cover four days and cannot be taken as a true picture. It will be better to review after Nov and Dec figures are released
Regarding LTN it was always three daily flights since they returned to BFS and the Oct figures show an increase of 1000 extra pax. Also extra Friday flight next year. When at BHD I believe it was also three daily

STN and SEN should be viewed as combined figures, since EZY moved one of their aircraft to SEN. Yes STN now 3/4 day but SEN twice daily so if combined that's an extra flight to this area of the London market

I believe that EI will do more damage to BE rather than EZY so it would be interesting if someone could throw some light of the figures

[GAZMO]

EI BUD

Thanks for the comment on Cardiff thread. Yes I have done mis postings myself

Yes agree DUB will always be the better airport for choice but certainly Toronto is feasible. Yes can be cheaper but if the airlines realise they can get better yields /price then new long haul a good possibility

Time will tell

[GAZMO]

From Belfast Telegraph this morning. If 10,000 additional business pax (not leisure or VFR) would this mean extra flights / destinations or just filling up the empty seats?

BELFAST travel firm has signed a deal with easyJet - one of the first of its kind in the UK - which could mean up to 10,000 additional business passengers using the airline to fly from Belfast to destinations across Europe.

Read more: Travel company lands easyJet deal - Business News, Business - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-news/travel-company-lands-easyjet-deal-16243003.html#ixzz2DPlSkGUe)

[tigger2k8]

I would say filling empty seats first, then if the demand is there.. adding extra flights if they can.