BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL

[NWSRG]

Virgin will be offering 8 return flights. This was announced a few months ago.

I can't see there being enough demand for Thomas Cook and Virgin though. This year so far there was around 10 flights..

Go back 10 years, and there were about 3 flights every weekend out of BFS to Orlando, all through the summer. Add in the 'halo' effect that flying directly from BFS with VS brings, and I don't think we'll have any problem filling these flights. With A330s available, VS can be flexible with capacity too. I wouldn't be surprised if they throw in the odd LAS trip as well.

[owenc]

So what is the max that we could get?

[BHD2BFS]

Although not airline related but apart from the new retail and service staton outside can we see more retail units being built
Any word on the intl piers being done up? Looking very tired still

[True Blue]

So why was this person allowed on board in the first place?

NewsNow: Loading story... (http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/848536554?-303:3665:0)

[SecondDog]

So why was this person allowed on board in the first place?

NewsNow: Loading story... (http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/848536554?-303:3665:0)

Because drunks aren't always obvious at the gate.

[mart901]

KTW on sale for summer 17' Tue/Sat evenings. FR didn't win that argument then!

[stab3.5up]

Ground staff are not permitted to accuse someone of being drunk as they are not medically qualified to make that call. They have to ask passengers things like what time did you check in what have you been drinking and we're. Trust me it's a very difficult judgement call to make at a boarding gate how a passenger will behave on board. Sometimes you make the right call some times not.

[bfs1374]

Just read this and to be honest is new to me. Anyone know if this has started or if not when. Surely it will mean more jobs.
Jet Assist unveils new $4.1m hangar and FBO project at Belfast/EGAA (http://www.handbook.aero/hb_news_story.html?release=29846)

[BFS BHD]

Just read this and to be honest is new to me. Anyone know if this has started or if not when. Surely it will mean more jobs.
Jet Assist unveils new $4.1m hangar and FBO project at Belfast/EGAA

The CEO of Jet Assist is on twitter, tweet him he would know more than anyone else.

https://twitter.com/Jet_Assist_CEO

[SecondDog]

The CEO of Jet Assist is on twitter, tweet him he would know more than anyone else.

https://twitter.com/Jet_Assist_CEO

Yes, he will tell you allsorts......

[bfs1374]

Originally Posted by BFS BHD View Post
The CEO of Jet Assist is on twitter, tweet him he would know more than anyone else.

https://twitter.com/Jet_Assist_CEO
Yes, he will tell you allsorts......

Hmm sounds like you don't believe him SecondDog or if I'm picking you up wrong I apologise. I'm not a twitterer so can't check BFS BHD but thanks anyway.

[El Bunto]

Anyone know if this has started or if not when. No planning application received yet as far as I can tell, last one I can find on PlanningNI was from 2015 for Woodgate's big hangar. Interesting scaling, able to accommodate a 767. Only a handful of those in private use; Page & Brin and Abramov come to mind. Worth planning for the future though I suppose.

[tigger2k8]

I think we will see Woodgate expand before Jet Assist..

[SecondDog]

I think we will see Woodgate expand before Jet Assist..

Seems a safe bet

[mart901]

KUN has appeared as a destination on wizzair website.....not sure if this is operational or a new route looking at it.

[BFS BHD]

Hopefully its a new route! Wizz Air hasn't added any new routes from they started at BFS.

Looking at KUN destinations there's a good few new routes showing for KUN! Could be a Wizzair announcement tomorrow at Kaunas Airport announcing a expansion.

[Jamie2k9]

KUN has appeared as a destination on wizzair website.....not sure if this is operational or a new route looking at it.

VNO runway closing for a month in 2017.

KTW on sale for summer 17' Tue/Sat evenings. FR didn't win that argument then!

Not yet....

[mart901]

Wizzair manage to fight quite well against Ryanair I wouldn't write them off so easily, they are just as ruthless.

[GAZMO]

Article from this mornings BT with usual Ryanair "we might we might not"
Ryanair 'may grow Belfast network if air duty is tackled' - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/ryanair-may-grow-belfast-network-if-air-duty-is-tackled-35049556.html)

[buzz_hornet]

Old news,

Simon Hamilton has overridden the concerns of his committee to approve the £9 million to subsidise the New York route.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37366264

[SecondDog]

Old news,

Simon Hamilton has overridden the concerns of his committee to approve the £9 million to subsidise the New York route.

United Airlines bailout: MLAs told £9m rescue package 'irregular' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37366264)

Can't afford not to. There are ways and means of presenting the money. About time we took this tip from the South.

[flyguy09]

Are Ryanair planning on operating to the canaries in summer 2017?

[GAZMO]

Nothing on the website yet, although other routes have recently been loaded. Hopefully soon

[ILS25]

Can't afford not to. There are ways and means of presenting the money. About time we took this tip from the South.

Couldn't agree more

[BFS BHD]

Ryanair S17 announcement due very soon.

[mart901]

VNO on sale S17

[flyguy09]

Yes, I noticed they released other summer routes for summer 2017. I was just wondering if canaries was winter only?

[mart901]

VNO is wizzair

[All names taken]

I came through BFS last night on the last MAN flight. Whilst in the terminal I looked at the departure screen...there were 9 flights on it. All were going to GB - three of them to LGW.
No problem with that of course....the market is what the market is...I just find it weird that the place is still referred to by the locals...including my own in-laws - as 'the international'. It is overwhelming like BHD a means of connecting the anomaly that is Northern Ireland with the 'mother ship'

[BFS watcher]

I came through BFS last night on the last MAN flight. Whilst in the terminal I looked at the departure screen...there were 9 flights on it. All were going to GB - three of them to LGW.
No problem with that of course....the market is what the market is...I just find it weird that the place is still referred to by the locals...including my own in-laws - as 'the international'. It is overwhelming like BHD a means of connecting the anomaly that is Northern Ireland with the 'mother ship'
Okay let's play that little game......11 international departures before midday tomorrow!

[BFS watcher]

I came through BFS last night on the last MAN flight. Whilst in the terminal I looked at the departure screen...there were 9 flights on it. All were going to GB - three of them to LGW.
No problem with that of course....the market is what the market is...I just find it weird that the place is still referred to by the locals...including my own in-laws - as 'the international'. It is overwhelming like BHD a means of connecting the anomaly that is Northern Ireland with the 'mother ship'
And how many from BHD before 1200 where Ms Best has claimed their International growth has been stunning.......you guessed it nil, nada, zero, zilch!

[bongoo]

Wow 11 international departures from the "international airport" and before midday too.. Dublin must be brickin it..( now where's the Mickey Mouse emoji when ya need it)

[cuthere]

And how many from BHD before 1200 where Ms Best has claimed their International growth has been stunning.......you guessed it nil, nada, zero, zilch!

Really? Faro and Palma are in the U.K. now? Both by 7am.

[panpanpanpan]

I thought Harbour had a Brussels flight and an Amsterdam route as well sometime in the morning? :confused:

Maybe there are no flights other than domestic on a Friday or maybe BFS Watcher is wrong.:hmm:

[cessnarocket]

Maybe Bfs watcher is not wrong just looking 12 months in advance :ok:

[EI-A330-300]

cessnarocket

EI are not dropping any BHD routes. Same goes for KLM!

[cessnarocket]

I take it you did not read the humour in my post then.
Glad to see your so confident about ei and Klm . After 30 years in the aviation industry I know not to be so bold. Anything is possible my friend !!

[cessnarocket]

On a positive note Ryanair expansion announcement due midweek

[cuthere]

On a positive note Ryanair expansion announcement due midweek

Oh no Cessna! British taxpayers lining the pockets of an Irish airline! I smell hypocrisy.

[EI-A330-300]

I take it you did not read the humour in my post then.
Glad to see your so confident about ei and Klm . After 30 years in the aviation industry I know not to be so bold. Anything is possible my friend !!

Humor in relation to an NI airport, please.....as for EI they are continuing at BHD in 2017, I know many at BFS will be ever so disappointed. KLM, pretty safe appears to be doing good and building.

[BFS BHD]

Ryanair now as Lanzarote and Tenerife in their system for S17. Lanzarote is now BFS based aircraft.

[stab3.5up]

I thought EI had put the sun routes out to tender for next summer?

[cessnarocket]

A little disappointed wanted to venture into the dark side to keep an open mind, so went on to book ei for a wee trip to Palma from BHD in June. No flights released thought ei release seats for sale 330 days in advance? Ei bud might shine some light. Suppose it's back to the comfort zone Bfs or dub 😱

[mart901]

EI never put them on sale till Oct, EZY isn't on sale yet.

[BFS Dude]

Anyone know what day this week Ryanair will announce their S17 routes?

[BFS watcher]

Anyone know what day this week Ryanair will announce their S17 routes?

MOL having press conference tomorrow as he is in Belfast to speak at the CBI lunch

[NWSRG]

It's unbelievable how this thread attracts the "my da's bigger than your da" brigade. This is supposed to be a place for sensible discussion about our airports and their development, not a playground for infantile willy waving.

So some points;
1. Dublin will always be bigger than BFS or BHD. It's home to a national flag carrier, has massive traffic with the US courtesy of generations of migration, and is useful to those of us heading that way courtesy of pre-clearance. That's just fact.
2. That doesn't mean that BFS (or BHD) should not seek to maximise their medium / long haul potential. Surely we can justify direct North American connections, and at least a few European business routes alongside the leisure rotations. We're a significant region, just like Scotland, or the North-East, and we like to travel, so let's not knock ambition.
3. We'd be better off with one airport...that would help create the critical mass that would generate new route offerings. But, we have two, and they are both pretty decent. I'm happy to use either. If we could focus on one, then BFS has more potential simply due to runway length and space. But, we have two, so let's get on with it.
4. A football team is for life. An airport is just a sophisticated bus station. Get a football team if you want to get emotionally involved.
5. United must be laughing. Next time round, we need to tender for a subsidised New York route. Lowest subsidy takes it. A 757 (nearly always well packed) from BFS to EWR has to be a sure thing.
6. Well played to those who are bringing USAF C-130s and C-17s here, and also to the guys bringing bizjets through every day...it puts us on the map, and could lead to bigger things.
7. Get a girlfriend. Girlfriends are better than airports. (But not as good as football). I've upgraded to a wife (which is better than football). But I still like football.
8. I do actually like airports too...fascinating places. Heathrow was class before they modernised it all. Schiphol is brilliant, as is Orlando. Can't really warm to Gatwick though. Manchester is friendly. Calgary was just incredibly quiet. BFS has character...you can see how it has grown over the years. BHD is nice, in a Volkswagen Golf sort of way, but that's ok too.
9. I still don't like Ryanair.

Right, I'm away for my dinner. Talk soon.

[GAZMO]

Agree with points 1-8!!
Point 9........a lot of people do like Ryanair

[Una Due Tfc]

NWSRG that's the best post I've read on here in ages.

[EI-A330-300]

United's problem is J yield is rubbish, we are talking easily circa of 50% difference lots of times.

I agree with NWSRG point about a tender process or just use the money elsewhere, it would go along way to get the rail line between Belfast/Border up to 100 mph and benefit a lot more.
___

Onto Ryanair surprised AGP/ALC not daily for 2017....

[El Bunto]

6. Well played to those who are bringing USAF C-130s and C-17s here, and also to the guys bringing bizjets through every day...it puts us on the map, and could lead to bigger things. Did anyone here attend the talk by the MD of Global Trek to the UAS last month? I missed it but it would be interesting to hear how much support they receive from BIA and Stormont; apparently they have to solicit and tender for each individual USAF Wing's business, which must be a tedious and expensive process.

[mart901]

No new route it seems, but 3rd based aircraft

[BFS BHD]

Has to be another announcement then for the 3rd aircraft?

[mart901]

He more or less said they will pull out of LDY and move routes to BFS in future.

[GAZMO]

Anybody know what the third based FR aircraft will be doing?
With LGW doing down to four daily from the winter five then there is a big gap in the flying day.....STN?

[NWSRG]

NWSRG that's the best post I've read on here in ages.

Thank you Una ... I think I've got it out of my system now!

[NWSRG]

Did anyone here attend the talk by the MD of Global Trek to the UAS last month? I missed it but it would be interesting to hear how much support they receive from BIA and Stormont; apparently they have to solicit and tender for each individual USAF Wing's business, which must be a tedious and expensive process.

Missed it too, but real credit to these folks. I'm guessing the profits justify the effort, and it's one of those things where building the relationship hopefully reaps real long term rewards. I think we had 7 C-130s at BFS the other day at one point...and it's good to see C-17s as well. Hopefully it's business that's here to stay now. And the same goes for the bizjets...both our local airports seem to be getting lots of such traffic these days.

[SecondDog]

Missed it too, but real credit to these folks. I'm guessing the profits justify the effort, and it's one of those things where building the relationship hopefully reaps real long term rewards. I think we had 7 C-130s at BFS the other day at one point...and it's good to see C-17s as well. Hopefully it's business that's here to stay now. And the same goes for the bizjets...both our local airports seem to be getting lots of such traffic these days.
1st rule of fight club... :-D

[MaverickPrime]

Does anyone foresee J2 feeling the squeeze with RYR moving in?

[BFS BHD]

Barcelona (GRO) on sale for Ryanair two weekly from 27th March. Non based.

[GAZMO]

Interesting choice, head to head with JET2 on GRO


Will the third aircraft routes be appearing soon??

[mart901]

Good job! Thought more would come

[BFS BHD]

Likely more coming over the next few weeks. Faro and Palma has got to be two routes they will be doing. GRO has been taken off the app but is still bookable on their website.

[mart901]

The flights are same days as jet2, from what I've been reading there's a war going on between them for GRO business with various new UK routes, I'm sure jet2 launching a STN service was the straw that broke that particular camels back. Also as has been mentioned EZY starting BCN earlier. All good healthy competition.

[BFS BHD]

Yes going to be a big increase to the Barcelona area next year. EZY is also using the A320 to BCN instead of A319.

[buzz_hornet]

Likely more coming over the next few weeks. Faro and Palma has got to be two routes they will be doing. GRO has been taken off the app but is still bookable on their website.
the faro route will be announced in due course. again increasing competition at BFS. so essentially jet2 will leave at c.645, ezy leaving at c.1030. FR flight left CoDA at 1700 so i cant seem them taking a prime slot for the BFS service

[BHD2BFS]

I wonder if they will commence a weekly Malta service to replace EZY, from flying on the service myself the loads looked good
And surely a Cypriot route is on the cards

[BFS BHD]

Ryanair has confirmed Girona today. :)

Welcome to Ryanair! (http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/news/16928-new-belfast-barcelona-girona-route/?market=en)

[mart901]

BHD2BFS

Couldn't agree more about both - TCX do Cyprus though?

[Una Due Tfc]

Missed it too, but real credit to these folks. I'm guessing the profits justify the effort, and it's one of those things where building the relationship hopefully reaps real long term rewards. I think we had 7 C-130s at BFS the other day at one point...and it's good to see C-17s as well. Hopefully it's business that's here to stay now. And the same goes for the bizjets...both our local airports seem to be getting lots of such traffic these days.

I can't speak for ground handling, but I know ATC charges for state/military aircraft are paid for by the local government e.g. A C17 passing through Shannon high level enroute to say Rammstein will have its' ATC charges paid to the IAA by the Irish government. I'd be surprised if ground handling is different.

[True Blue]

If Ryanair place a third aircraft in BFS and with a number of routes being flown by non-based aircraft, is their commitment to Belfast in effect 3 point something aircraft? Say 3.5 for example.

[Jamie2k9]

Schedules are not confirmed so yes more new routes could happen but re scheduling is also highly likely.

[El Bunto]

I'd be surprised if ground handling is different. Ground handling costs are not covered by the Irish Department of Transport, only en route and communication charges payable to the IAA.

[Una Due Tfc]

Ground handling costs are not covered by the Irish Department of Transport, only en route and communication charges payable to the IAA.

Thanks for the info.

[BFS BHD]

With Barcelona going non-based A320 for EasyJet for next year does anyone think any other European routes will go non-based?
Would be good if they added more A320s to the based aircraft at BFS.
Looks like they are releasing half S17 on Thursday so might see what their plans are then.

[El Bunto]

USAF KC-135R on the ground at International today, well done Global Trek! Looks like they've 'won' another unit.

[Startledgrapefruit]

See the runway is blocked with a cargo aircraft.

[AerRyan]

All arrivals this morning cancelled instead of diverted it seems. Lots of deparutes cancelled too.

[El Bunto]

Incident occurred just before 06:00 but nothing officially stated by the airport until after 08:00, by which time at least a dozen scheduled flights had fallen off the schedule and many more intending passengers were in transit. Not very proactive customer relations.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

From FR24, looks like B734F OE-IAG.

[buzz_hornet]

you'd think with no other airports they could at least get the flights in.

is it a big job just to connect a tug and pull it even the 20-30 feet to get it off the main runway?

[Startledgrapefruit]

You need both sets of main wheels pointing forwards to tow it.

[SecondDog]

Incident occurred just before 06:00 but nothing officially stated by the airport until after 08:00, by which time at least a dozen scheduled flights had fallen off the schedule and many more intending passengers were in transit. Not very proactive customer relations.

Yes because that is the first priority to update all the pax with flight time guesses (that you can't possibly guarantee until multiple agencies have their input) rather than doing all the background work to clear the blockage and get them away asap. Besides which at 0600 with a rwy closure, very few inbound pax would have been in the air.

Then when the snr mgmt team arrive they coordinate the press releases etc.

Remind me what exactly you think is wrong with the timeline today?

[El Bunto]

Remind me what exactly you think is wrong with the timeline today? First scheduled departure was due 06:15, second 06:15, third 06:55... 12 cancelled movements later and the airport decided to state that there had been a problem and moved the flights' status from 'BAG DROP' to something more useful to intending passengers. It's an airport; 95% of its daily business involves moving people. It couldn't perform its primary function for several hours this morning and no-one other than spotters knew it. But that's OK, at least the senior managers didn't have to get out of bed early or anything.

[tigger2k8]

First scheduled departure was due 06:15, second 06:15, third 06:55... 12 cancelled movements later and the airport decided to state that there had been a problem and moved the flights' status from 'BAG DROP' to something more useful to intending passengers. It's an airport; 95% of its daily business involves moving people. It couldn't perform its primary function for several hours this morning and no-one other than spotters knew it. But that's OK, at least the senior managers didn't have to get out of bed early or anything.

That is up to the relevant handling agent of each airline, not the airport. I would direct all complaints on the flight display system to Swissport. Even at that Swissport will only update each individual flight when each airline informs them of what their intentions are.

Takes time to evaluate the state of the aircraft, get it suitable for towing (cargo needed to be offloaded, on the runway, where no equipment is stored near) so there is quite a logistical task for them to complete.

I can understand though that those who do not have much background knowledge in airports would get frustrated, but there is more to it.. Airport won't put out a press release until the information is correct and they can give some concrete information.

[SecondDog]

That is up to the relevant handling agent of each airline, not the airport. I would direct all complaints on the flight display system to Swissport. Even at that Swissport will only update each individual flight when each airline informs them of what their intentions are.

Takes time to evaluate the state of the aircraft, get it suitable for towing (cargo needed to be offloaded, on the runway, where no equipment is stored near) so there is quite a logistical task for them to complete.

I can understand though that those who do not have much background knowledge in airports would get frustrated, but there is more to it.. Airport won't put out a press release until the information is correct and they can give some concrete information.

Good shout Tigger, at least someone has a bit of wit.

El bunto, only spotters knew? Knew nothing because you live in the world of internet rumour and people with an over inflated sense of their knowledge on the subject, who like to get irate and spout their certainty immediately. People need to learn to wait a minute or two again.

[jensdad]

Is the shorter runway (17 / 35 IIRC) removed from use these days?

[DC9_10]

Apparently the aircraft was stuck on the cross section of both runways making the shorter runway inop.

[AerRyan]

Some aircraft used half the runway to depart this morning.

[cessnarocket]

Blah blah blah, from an insider point of view the fire ops and engineering crews at egaa did a sterling job today. The suitation was managed splendidly to keep the airport operational, most other airports would not of had the capibility of operations at a reduced distance certainly not on the east coast of Ireland . Let's not forget decisions as in moving aircraft is not in the hands of the airport or airlines but outside agency's. blooming heck so what folk were not informed till 8am, I guess the airport staff had slightly more to do than sit on social media or fms screens ... catch a grip people

[BFS BHD]

Jet2-
Very early for Jet2 to release Winter flights?

Fuerteventura - 1 Weekly (Saturday)
Gran Canaria - 1-2 Weekly (Thursday & Sunday)
Lanzarote - 2 Weekly (Wednesday & Saturday) Extra Thursday service around Christmas 2017.
Tenerife - 2-3 Weekly (Tuesday, Friday & Sunday).

EasyJet-
Talk on Newcastle thread that the BFS-NCL flights will be done by a BFS based aircraft. Will that mean a another based aircraft for BFS or will BFS be losing routes, maybe they will do some european flights with non based aircraft?

[GAZMO]

Really early!!,
Appears to be a few more flights to Canaries compared to W 16/17

[GAZMO]

Flights uploaded for early summer 17. Not much change.
PMI extra flight on Mon and Fri. LGW maintaining 7 daily on Mon, Thus and Fri.
Few routes still to be uploaded, BHX, ACE, KEF


BFS BHD (http://www.pprune.org/members/380819-bfs-bhd) - NCL route still being operated by NCL aircraft

[BFS BHD]

Some PMI flights will be done by a PMI based A320.

[GAZMO]

Stats out for July from CAA. Domestic routes looking quite impressive

[El Bunto]

Says the airport: “We can confirm that we receive military flight, however, due to security considerations we are unable to give any further information.” Ah OK, us punters on Easyjet flights are fair game for press releases but military aircraft with an array of self-protective devices need 'security considerations'. That sort of double-standard will just stir-up more 'controversy' amongst those folk who have decided to make this an issue. Staying neutral on the subject would have been a better response: 'US military flights are handled commercially like any other traffic'.

[SecondDog]

Says the airport: Ah OK, us punters on Easyjet flights are fair game for press releases but military aircraft with an array of self-protective devices need 'security considerations'. That sort of double-standard will just stir-up more 'controversy' amongst those folk who have decided to make this an issue. Staying neutral on the subject would have been a better response: 'US military flights are handled commercially like any other traffic'.

In what way have you as an Easyjet punter had a press release about you as opposed to the airline?

What is the problem with not commenting on Military flights, other than it doesn't give nosey folk the info they crave?

[El Bunto]

Formerly-broken freighter B734 OE-IAG fixed-up and departed at 14:20 today.

[BFS BHD]

Not fully fixed yet heading to Shannon Airport at FL100 with gear down.

[aidygers]

when should manchester august/september 2017 flights be released with easyjet from belfast?

[SecondDog]

when should manchester august/september 2017 flights be released with easyjet from belfast?

Depends when they can properly plan it so they don't have the crewing issues that have killed them this year. That is why they have only part released the season.

[inOban]

SecondDog
Google Easyjet schedule release. Mid November.

[BFS BHD]

Alicante operates 2 weekly Nov-Feb then 3 to 4 weekly Feb-Apr.

Faro operates 2 weekly but a gap between Nov to Feb.

Palma operates 2 weekly in Nov and 3 weekly Mar-April. Gap between Nov-Mar.

[BFS BHD]

Due to popular demand, P&O Cruises has added an additional direct flight from Belfast International for its Caribbean fly/cruise in November next year. P&O Cruises senior vice president, Paul Ludlow, said: “Demand for our Barbados fly/cruises has been exceptional and we are delighted to be able to add another flight from Belfast. We are also very pleased that it will be on the Boeing 787 Dreamliner with its spacious, airy cabin and mood lighting.

More here: P&O Cruises confirm additional flight to Barbados fr... (http://www.belfastairport.com/blog-news/2016/october/po-cruises-confirm-additional-flight-to-barbados-from-belfast)

[GAZMO]

Any new routes / additions is good news, although it's a little early to book for 2018!!!!
Any word on additional Ryanair routes for next summer?

[SecondDog]

SecondDog
Google Easyjet schedule release. Mid November.

Oh my apologies that is very exact, what was I thinking? Why don't we look at Wikipedia for new routes as well. Bound to get great knowledge on there too.

[KNT544]

Bound to get great knowledge on there too.

LOVE IT!!!

[EI-BUD]

Somebody has just posted an update on social media stating that BFS - BHX route by easyJet is being axed from end of April, after Easter. If true, very disappointing as numbers had grown dramatically, having outgrown Flybe in the market also.... Can anybody confirm or deny?

EI-BUD

[canberra97]

I thought that EASYJET BFS - BHX being axed had already been discussed!

[mart901]

Birmingham, Arrecife, Keflavik, Lyon all remain unconfirmed for S17, EZY have made no announcement regarding these routes so I wouldn't assume either way what they are up to. In terms of numbers BE would have almost undoubtedly overtaken over summer where EZY cut right down on capacity to use it elsewhere, this may be the reason they scrap it for summer. A sun route can command over £200 return, lots of baggage, ancillary seat sales and inflight revenues compared to battling away on domestic at sometimes less than £40 return, vast majority on hand luggage and minimal buy on board on a 45 min sector. Would be a shame if it goes but if its replaced by something new, european wise then good will come out of it.

[EI-BUD]

Yes Mart, of course sun routes command much more attractive ancillary revenue and fares. However, BHX is a year round gig... And is a very short sector. My hope is that it is not ending. It was great to see the route being resurrected after bmibaby exited in favour of BHD... We shall wait and see.

With Ryanair in town it would seem strange that EZY would exit the route, instead you'd expect them to hold firm on their current network. And given the extreme seasonal nature of Belfast flights, the months outside Jun, Jul and Aug may not, for longer sectors be just as attractive as you imagine.

[mart901]

Yea shame if it goes I use it frequently. BHD has nearly always done better but great to have choice. FR wouldn't be long filling it I'm sure

[Husky One]

I'd say the BHX run carries more than MAN and therefore it's highly unlikely to be chopped. The trouble with Easyjet is they are a bit of an enigma commercially. Rather than make plans that suit regions they try and make regions suit them. NCL is a classic example where Easyjet scaled back substantially yet Jet2 came in on the dumped routes and have thrived. I don't think BFS is in line for similar treatment but the place is badly in need of a local General Manager. The current Scottish import is chocolate teapot material and unlikely to cause any sleep loss in RYR circles.

[j636]

Wouldn't be suprised if KEF goes, type of route that can only last a certain amount of time before its starts to decline. Likely heavily outbound and buzz of Iceland will start to calm down.

Is Lyon not just ski so winter seasonal?

If BHX is gone I wouldn't be so sure FR will step in simply because routes like LBA/EMA have been opened, LGW late fares are still very soft and the currency slide against the euro will cause FR problems in time unless it returns to more normal levels.

[GAZMO]

I think there is more to come from EZY.
EDI on Tuesdays only has morning flights, nothing afternoon or evening?
As posted BHX during winter period carries more pax than flybe and has had increasing numbers this summer

[EI-BUD]

J636, yes LYS seasonal. LBA and EMA??

[j636]

Sorry should of said not, now I know BHX would be higher up the list than EMA/LBA but I don't see FR making an attempt but if they did I could not see more than daily.

[OltonPete]

I am with EI-BUD on this one it is all very strange and no doubt much more to be made on Med routes June to early September but what do you do with your asset the rest of the time? easyjet seem to have it right at the moment where the third rotation is dropped peak summer and returns early September.

The BFS-BHX is heavily weighted towards the BFS end and demand is high during trade or public shows at the NEC (not yet on its last legs!).

I have tried a compare with Manchester and although very difficult due to so many variables it seems to hold its own not withstanding more fuel fuel would be required on BFS-BHX than MAN.

Generally mid week morning outbound from Manchester seems to have higher fares than the outbound BHX to BFS but the rest of the time BHX is comparable if not higher. For example last Thursday through Sunday BHX showed 5 sell-outs to Manchester's 1 on the same number of flights but of course I don't have any idea what fares they were sold at obtain the full load.

The CAA stats wise, BHX is similar to MAN, BRS and NCL in winter although load factor wise probably 1 or 2% less but of course yields are not known. Next week will be useless to compare any routes as it is the lead up to half-term but opposite to the post on the Luton thread about LTN-CPH, an easyjet tweet to a question raised was responded to and they stated BHX-BFS is ending but I would treat that with caution for the time being.

Pete

[BFS Dude]

Is there no word yet on when Ryanair are going to announces the routes for the 3rd aircraft for S17?

[Waldo1]

The bhx flights were massively cheaper than flybe....as a customer, I'm not wishing to pay more...but they were so cheap that it's like ezy wanted to kill the route...otherwise it's like the ni punters preferred to hand over all their dosh to flybe

[mart901]

Its not always the case waldo I flew last week for less on BE and booked months in advance. Cost isn't the only issue. There's times when EZY have maybe 1 or 2 rotations on a given day, even non at all on Saturdays at times, or you want an early flight to Belfast and EZY land you miles out at 9.30am at best, doesn't suit everyone unfortunately. If you watch BE a sale period could give you as little as £40 return at times.

[GAZMO]

Pax numbers on the up again by 17.5%


Airport achieves September record in passenger numbe... (http://www.belfastairport.com/blog-news/2016/october/airport-achieves-september-record-in-passenger-numbers)

[owenc]

What are the predicted final passenger numbers? 5 million or 4.5 million?

[GAZMO]

If they have a 10% increase should be 4.8 million, 15% increase should be 5 million
Currently double digit growth each month

[BFS BHD]

Airport expects 5 Million this year and 5.5 Million next year. Possibly more now with Ryanair expanding to 3 based aircraft for S17.

[owenc]

That's decent but could be better. It'll be interesting to see what the next few years produce.

[BFS watcher]

So owenc when are you applying for the Aviation marketing role at BFS? As you can do better then you should be a shoe in for the position.

[AerRyan]

Its funny how people peoples expect airports to just grow all the time and are disappointed when the airport doesn't turn into another Heathrow.

[BFS BHD]

Ryanair now only basing 2 aircraft because of brexit.

[mart901]

FR are basing 3 aircraft from start of S17.

[GAZMO]

BFS BHD what is your source for this? Seems strange when MOL was in Belfast announcing the summer schedule the press release stated three aircraft

strange that at present for summer 17 schedule that FR are not doing the 12.30 flight to LGW. Can't see them parking it up until 16.30 to fly to AGP or ALC!

[BFS BHD]

Kate Sherry of Ryanair was in Belfast today and said they are now only basing 2 aircraft for next year due brexit.

This was posted on Mark Henry twitter. Think he is from Tourism Ireland.

#Ryanair were going to put 3 planes into @BelfastAirport but after #Brexit vote they only put 2 & will wait and see: Kate Sherry tells #HX16

[cuthere]

Kate Sherry of Ryanair was in Belfast today and said they are now only basing 2 aircraft for next year due brexit.

This was posted on Mark Henry twitter. Think he is from Tourism Ireland.

Quote:


Two ways to look at this. Either FR are bullsh!ttjng, or this is the first of many effects of Brexit. I'm sure Mart will be happy.

[BFS BHD]

I say it won't stop them expanding using non-based aircraft for S17.

[mart901]

Having read that tweet its not clear really what time frame, originally W16 should have been 3, then it was S17 and unless the schedules have been amended they will need 3 based, the point may refer to the current 2 based going into winter, the 3rd could also be seasonal. At the launch of S17 MOL said no new routes and a couple of weeks later GRO was announced. If there's a buck to be made they will be there.

[BFS BHD]

Knowing Ryanair we will have another announcement in a few weeks.

Some easyJet news is that they are adding a 7th flight to Gatwick on a Sunday for Spring 17. Arr 09:25 Dep 09:55, A320.

[mart901]

A lot will depend on how routes perform. As has been said expansion can come from non based, also we have yet to see EZY's final offering, or EI from BHD and I'm sure that and LS expanding will result in some sort of FR response. Its good to have them here really, brought prices down a bit and thus far boosting passenger numbers, I daresay the next 12 months will show growth.

[Startledgrapefruit]

I think EI press release this week.
For PMI etc...

[mart901]

Good job, what you hearing Startledgrapefruit?

[Waldo1]

Let's face it...this place can't cope with massive expansion...look at aer lingus attempt at bfs.. slow and steady wins the race. I don't want ryanair to replicate all of the existing offer, by all means cherry pick the best routes and drop the price a bit, but also add in new routes little by little...and if that means no 3rd plane but served by European bases then happy days!

[mart901]

Yup. In many ways FR aren't duplicating. 5 out of 12 routes are not in competition with any other airline. That's a good post Waldo1

[mart901]

Looking closer at FR S17 a lot of non based flights, some routes have a mix like ALC and AGP. Kinda the effect of having more than two based without doing so. Not sure if the schedules have been amended or if this was the case from the launch. I suppose having LGW down to 4x daily will help deliver this.

On a separate note EZY have posted a tweet stating BHX suspended from end APR in response to query. Still fairly open ended response to a customer and suggestion it might be back for summer. Can't work it out. BE are putting S17 on sale end of this month, their response might indicate what the future holds.

[EI-A330-300]

I wonder did somebody give MOL a geography lesson in regards to Belfast hence the apparent roll back on based frame :E

[GAZMO]

Mart901 - interesting terminology re BHX, suspended NOT ending or terminating.
I think BHX has been good for EZY. Would be really surprised if it didn't continue

[mart901]

MOL is a master of this sort of thing. Everything has a condition attached, landing charges, brexit, APD, runway expansion - you name it, there is always a get out clause. Despite this there will be really good growth at BFS even based on the current schedule. I'd say next major thing will be LON expansion. Also EI-A330-300 to launch 12 routes in as many months is not bad going at all, they were talking of about 6 when they announced their arrival here.

[BFS BHD]

New Ryanair route to Faro on sale on the app. Two weekly June to August 2017.

[mart901]

That I presume following on from scrapping LDY. That's good, 13 routes now, although I hardly think 2x weekly is adequate on such a busy route but I'm sure they will increase it, they seem to be playing a careful game here.

[BHD2BFS]

Moving away from Ryanair is there any word on expansion by Wizzair?
The airline is clearly doing well from BFS with from my knowledge very little advertising surely the must be looking at more routes? Or are they waiting to see what Ryanair do with Eastern European routes?

[GAZMO]

I can see FAO going up to 5 weekly, same as ALC and AGP


Any bets of STN being next?

[EI-BUD]

Two weekly June to August 2017.

Makes a lot of sense for Ryanair to fly BFS FAO, it is after all one of the biggest demand routes. Though the short period it flies highlights the very seasonal nature of flying ex NI.

[BFS BHD]

Looks like Ryanair is going to have a 3rd aircaft based for S17 after all!

Faro press release: Welcome to Ryanair! (http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/news/161021-new-faro-route-added-to-belfast-s-2017-schedule/?market=en)

[EI-A330-300]

The summer 2017 release also showed a third one....

[mart901]

I'd hazard a guess there's a domestic hiding in there, LPL be my guess. The aircraft aren't fully utilized as the schedule goes. FAO is non based.

[GAZMO]

Still think STN will be the next domestic from FR. The previous STN - LDY first thing in the morning to BFS, with the lunchtime LGW (12.30 flight) going to STN. Then just need an evening flight from STN to BFS!!

[mart901]

Very good gazmo you might have it there. I say LPL because its odd how BE ramped the service up and up and pax numbers grew and now its being shaved to the bare bones. MOL mentioned LTN as a possible, that of course could be LTN base operated.

[GAZMO]

I would agree Mart901. They were previously successful on the LPL out of BHD, and with MOL stating that they are likely to withdraw the LPL service from LDY it would be a reasonable bet to see it appearing at BFS

[Jamesair]

There was talk of Ryanair going head to head with Easyjet to NCL, has this now evaporated?

[scodaman]

Belfast to Newark flight UA76 making an emergency landing in Shannon right now.

https://www.flightradar24.com/UAL76/b679b27

[scodaman]

Nose gear problem, Captain heard it go up on Belfast takeoff but no green light in cockpit.

[El Bunto]

A night on the terminal floor for those poor sods, then. I assume in this case the 'other factors' in play preventing a return to Belfast were fuel burn-off, though I'm still not clear why they couldn't do orbits over the west of the island and return.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

A night on the terminal floor for those poor sods, then. I assume in this case the 'other factors' in play preventing a return to Belfast were fuel burn-off, though I'm still not clear why they couldn't do orbits over the west of the island and return.

The floor those passengers will be sleeping on if they decide will be the hotel room floor provided!

[EGAC is Better]

A night on the terminal floor for those poor sods, then. I assume in this case the 'other factors' in play preventing a return to Belfast were fuel burn-off, though I'm still not clear why they couldn't do orbits over the west of the island and return.

Perhaps maintenance at SNN are better placed to fix a B757 than those at BFS?

[AerRyan]

All pax moved to hotels, departure scheduled for 10am ex Shannon tomorrow.

[bnt]

Why choose Shannon over Belfast for an emergency landing?
Belfast runway 07/25: 9,121 ft
Shannon runway 06/24: 10,495 ft
:8

[BFS BHD]

MD at BFS confirming Easyjet will be launching new routes for next summer before Christmas.

[BFS BHD]

Wizz Air looks to be dropping the Tuesday Katowice service from 3rd Jan 2017 to 28 March 2017. Saturday service only.

Vilnius remains at 2 weekly.

[mart901]

EZY will definitely launch new summer routes because they have taken off sale 4 others and there are gaps in schedule.

WIZZ reduced both routes to 1x weekly last winter after Christmas.

[mart901]

BHX

Interesting EZY still using language like 'suspended' and 'check for summer 17' in regard to BHX flights on twitter. Suspended could be just off sale for the moment of course. What I don't get is saying new routes announced for S17 before Christmas......

[True Blue]

Why stop Bhx on a Monday if they are dropping it completely?

[SecondDog]

Why stop Bhx on a Monday if they are dropping it completely?
No way they drop it completely, FR would be in there like a rat up a drainpipe. Just negotiating with BHX Mgmt, who are apparently sticking up for themselves quite well, resulting in the stalemate of sorts.

[madgav]

I am trying to book KEF for June/Jul, but schedule not yet released beyond April. Please tell me it has not been dropped!!

[GAZMO]

I think the final EZY schedule for summer 17 should be finalised within next week or so (early November) so hopefully KEF will be continuing

[BFS BHD]

Next set of Easyjet release are:

- 3rd November for Jun-Sep.
- 8th December for Sep-Oct.

[AerRyan]

Why do they bother splitting them up? More press coverage?

[OltonPete]

easyjet

September CAA provisional stats are out and BHX were up 16%

..........................2016........2015.......avg pax..load factor
BELFAST INT........18511....... 15993........136........... 87%.

No good if you are not making money I suppose but think how many routes would you need to replace 18500 pax with, how much extra miles would have to be flown and could you guarantee the yields would be better outside of summer? Next seat available BFS - BHX at the moment Monday morning at £190 and the next below £50 is Wedneasday night. Okay it is the end of half-term but still not bad and on a par with MAN, although not as good as BRS & NCL.

Pete

[GAZMO]

Pax numbers running at 4.9 million for the last 12 months. Definitely should do five million plus this year

[GAZMO]

Thomas Cook now have winter 17/18 flights on sale now

[BFS BHD]

Thomas Cook now have winter 17/18 flights on sale now


Gran Canaria seems to be taking a break from 13th Nov 2017 to 12th February 2018.

[DC9_10]

Copenhagen,Hamburg apparently by U2 being discussed. Also London Southend by WX being discussed apparently. Source for WX usually very reliable. Let's wait and see.

[BFS BHD]

Any rumours about the routes for the 3rd aircraft for Ryanair DC9_10?

[DC9_10]

Only hearing Brussels at present and one more UK route for FR,not London. U2 BHX and KEF continuing as far as I know, for now.

[BFS BHD]

Cheers DC9_10, ACE must be ending then??

[BFS BHD]

I see Krakow starts today for Ryanair looking on their website there seems to be only four seats available. Tenerife tomorrow only has one seat available and Lanzarote four seats, Wroclaw has seven seats.

[AerRyan]

Good Lord, Ryanair make a big deal of the fact that they are one of the few airlines that don't overbook.

[DC9_10]

BFS BHD, don't think FR overbook due to EU denied boarding compensation rules. U2 and most lo co,s don't either. Did a few dummy bookings myself today and those flights are packed. Brother Sis in law and kids going to Lanzarote tomorrow with FR and coming back on Jet2. They got a bargain. Tried booking London for tomorrow and every seat from BFS sold out with U2 and FR. I do wonder what Belfasts favourite airport think about that ? .

[BFS BHD]

Oops :rolleyes:

[BCALBOY]

It's the end of half term in England and Halloween hols in N.I.

ALL BA flights BHD to LHR were full THU/FRI/SAT/SUN.

Mon first avail was 1940 dep with a few seats left but think they upgrade 1810 dep from 319 to 320 so it now has a few avail.

I'm sure Aer Lingus similar.

[cuthere]

BCALBOY, don't worry about certain deluded people with pathological hatred for BHD and indeed, anywhere other than BFS. Their output is fiction. I've yet to see a prediction come true. Cityjet to SEN?! Hahahahahahahahah! Good.

All routes from BFS/BHD to LON have shown growth in recent months, but let's not allow reality to get in the way of a pathetic, childish vendetta.

[DC9_10]

Oh here he is again, Cuthere shouting his mouth off before engaging his little brain cell. WX = Cityjet. Citywing are a ticket service provided who hire Vanair or the likes to fly services from Isle of Man, remember them Cutters, supposed to come to Derry but never came.

[SecondDog]

BCALBOY, don't worry about certain deluded people with pathological hatred for BHD and indeed, anywhere other than BFS. Their output is fiction. I've yet to see a prediction come true. Cityjet to SEN?! Hahahahahahahahah! Good.

All routes from BFS/BHD to LON have shown growth in recent months, but let's not allow reality to get in the way of a pathetic, childish vendetta.

An interesting insight that could be applied rhetorically

[DC9_10]

See you edited your post Cutters, must have been a hard day on your tractor, BTW BHD to LCY down 15%

[mart901]

DC_10

I was under the impression that U2 had stopped overbooking. Not so. Heard a number of cases of it recently including families split up by it.

[DC9_10]

Mart, U2 don't overbook deliberately. Most I have ever seen was 3. Think sometimes GDS has when someone has been online at similar times. I took a pax only once from BCN to LPL on a spare crew seat. As the senior crew member,I had to brief him on opening the door in an emergency to which he had to agree. However, at Midland, we overbooked all the time to an extent we were always pulling the business seats from 5 to 6 abreast to accommodate. Resulted in a fifty quid voucher for the pax every time. Sometimes 50 on board. No wonder Midland are no more.

[cuthere]

Tractor? I'm currently on my way to Oxford, old girl. You wouldn't like it. Full of open-minded, literate people. Though one of the greatest fantasies ever written has some of its roots there. Tolkien spent a lot of time in the city.

Nice to see you being utterly lacerated on the Flybe thread earlier too.

Now. Don't you have a trolley to push?

[DC9_10]

Flying from Derry ?. Also certainty not pushing a trolley you absolute idiot. You can't come back with debate can you. No, you try to abuse who ever does not agree with your opinions only to show yourself up with your repetitive moronic stupidity. Hope your not studying at Oxford,but if you are, I suggest you take up a course in anger management. Now talking about open mindness, your so open minded in that using the words "old girl", I take it you have assumed all male cabin crew like their shopping delivered round the back door. Hahaha you certainly are a beaut lad.

[mart901]

Looking at tomorrow what a great change for winter where there used to be long gaps in the mid morning plenty happening now, so good to see.

[GAZMO]

Good to nice a few more flights, maybe a new announcement from EZY on Thursday

[BFS BHD]

Don't think the new routes will be announced to closer to Christmas GAZMO. May be some increases on the current routes on Thursday but. :)

[Straightahead]

FR had 3 new routes today
WRO in 116 out 184
TFS in 134 out 184
ACE in 95 out 176

[EK77WNCL]

straightahead, how do you find out those numbers? I'd love to know how NCL's 5 new ryanair and 2 new easyjet routes did over the weekend/today, or is it only BFS you can get the figures for?

Interesting to see such high inbound figures, on TFS and ACE at least, I assume inbound passengers that flew out with another airline

[GAZMO]

Nothing much changing on EZY summer schedule


NCE only two weekly, PMI two extra (previously announced)


No BHX, ACE or KEF......as yet!!!!:bored:

[mart901]

DC9-10

Just read a customer comment from twitter, customer told at Bfs that U2 overbook by 10%

[DC9_10]

Mart. In 11 years of flying for U2, I have never ever seen a sector overbooked anywhere near 10%. Even in peak summer.

[flying officer kite]

Mart901,
Unless the policies have suddenly changed EasyJet don't overbook, I've only ever seen it on rare and exceptional circumstances (for example having to send a crew member somewhere on short notice). Ryanair is the same, it keeps things simpler and avoids the need to pay out compensation.

[SecondDog]

Mart901,
Unless the policies have suddenly changed EasyJet don't overbook, I've only ever seen it on rare and exceptional circumstances (for example having to send a crew member somewhere on short notice). Ryanair is the same, it keeps things simpler and avoids the need to pay out compensation.

I disagree about EZY, it seems commonplace to oversell with the expectation that there will be no shows (which is surprisingly common)

It may be that they do not do this on European flights compared to intra-UK but they probably have better metrics to decide which flights have the highest likelihood of no shows at the gate. I seriously doubt there is anything like a set 10pc oversell.

[david1994]

easyJet currently over book there flights network wide and have done for a quite some time not sure on the percentages they overbook however looking at the passenger figures for some of today's flights they are over booked by around 8/9 passenger.

[mart901]

Oversales | easyJet (http://www.easyjet.com/en/help/at-the-airport/oversales)

[El Bunto]

Per that link, more marketing lies: "it means aircraft leave with empty seats, increasing our costs...". Note that they provide no information as to how costs magically "increase" if an aircraft departs with empty seats. Actually the fuel burn is fractionally reduced... They presumably mean "cost per passenger carried" but that doesn't sound as good a justification.

[trolleydolly737]

By all accounts today the EU has scuppered the payment to UA and the route will be pulled in Jan.

[FFHKG]

But surely with LC model, most passengers are not entitled to a refund unless they have paid the higher price...... just what percentage of their passengers pay the cheapest price, I wonder, guess it would be most so there is no loss of revenue if they don't turn up. All seems a bit of "spin" to me to, and surely overbooking and off-loading will incur extra costs for EZ as they then have to make compensation payments. Guess the only people who fully understand airline revenue management in any detail are all hidden away in the back-office and probably never saw the press release before it was issued anyway.

[GAZMO]

Response from BFS. sad day for transatlantic flights


Blog & News | Belfast International Airport (http://www.belfastairport.com/blog-news)

[cheesymark]

To be fair it was a rushed and was a tendered opportunity - maybe if they had done it as a route development type approach and looked for interested tenders the EU would have approved it.
Instead it was agreed to give to the incumbent carrier which could be perceived as a back hander.
I do not blame the EU on this. It has rules and regulations and in this case it wasn't adhered to. Putting it to Tender properly will get round this perceived denial by the EU.

To be fair I fly mainly through Heathrow as the United Flights are normally not cost effective for Business flights. The flight does make money from what I have heard however the reality is they could best serve the aircraft more profitably flying other sectors. Its a business decision.

[Jamie2k9]

Anybody could see this deal would never be allowed to happen, well apart from the bright sparks who came up with it. They made such basic errors.

Flogging a dead horse comes to mind, UA had decided a long time ago they are ending the route but just double checking with NI Government how much they want it and prepared to pay to keep it every now and again.

[scodaman]

WTF? I voted Remain as I thought being part of Europe was good for business. Obviously not.

[Jamie2k9]

WTF? I voted Remain as I thought being part of Europe was good for business. Obviously not.

Some might argue giving an operator 9 million to operate a route is bad for business and means other operators in same market are at a disadvantage.

[madgav]

Some might argue giving an operator 9 million to operate a route is bad for business and means other operators in same market are at a disadvantage.

After which some might also take a closer look and observe that there are no other operators in same market :ugh:
Glad I voted leave :D

Sad day yes, but hopefully BFS will now be proactive in finding another airline to operate the route. Let's be positive :ok:

[EK77WNCL]

I feel your pain, it's a real shame to see it go. Out of bitterness I could laugh and say "if we can't have it no-one can" but I really wanted to see Belfast keep the connection, just as I want to see Bristol get theirs back

Maybe we need an operator like Jetblue, and A321neoLR's to make thinner transatlantic routes work? I know for Newcastle at least, United were occasionally too expensive (read: roughly the same price as BA/AF/KL/EI, so people just went with them instead)

[Una Due Tfc]

There's always Norwegian.....at least on paper!

[speedrestriction]

Northern Ireland has neither the population nor the economic activity to support LH routes. A citizen of NI has on average £2,700 less disposable income per annum compared to a citizen of the Republic. The impending economic headwinds of Brexit will only tip the balance even further in Dublin's favour. The folk on the hill who believe in Brexit need to start making clear to us as to how Brexit is an opportunity rather than the biggest economic disaster in Northern Ireland's history. We are at severe risk of becoming an irrelevant, isolated nation to the northwest of an irrelevant, isolated country to the northwest of the EU.

[pilot9249]

Per that link, more marketing lies: "it means aircraft leave with empty seats, increasing our costs...". Note that they provide no information as to how costs magically "increase" if an aircraft departs with empty seats. Actually the fuel burn is fractionally reduced... They presumably mean "cost per passenger carried" but that doesn't sound as good a justification.

They just mean cost per ticket.

Overbooking increases the number of tickets they can sell, which reduces the cost to be covered by each ticket.

Seems pretty reasonable explanation on the link.

If they didn't overbook the cost of each ticket would increase, and therefore so would the price. This would just leave all customers paying more whether they ended up travelling or not.

[EGAC is Better]

Whilst I agree with the decision to remove this backhander, I still believe a more proportionate course of action could have been taken.

Eg. Let the operation continue with support whilst a tender exercise (with a stipulated deadline) to find a replacement is undertaken. Forcing its end without affording this opportunity is a disgrace.

It may be that no alternative would be found but at least an opportunity would have been given.

[racedo]

Would a United T/A route have worked starting off in UK first or vice versa so start in EDI / GLA stopoff in Belfast and then cross the pond or is it fraught with difficulty ?

[canberra97]

No the idea of it starting off from the likes of EDI or GLA and stopping off at BFS on the way to EWR is a ridiculous idea and one that would never work in the competitive transatlantic market.

By the way you mentioned starting off in the UK first well NI is also part of the UK as you well know!

[SecondDog]

No the idea of it starting off from the likes of EDI or GLA and stopping off at BFS on the way to EWR is a ridiculous idea and one that would never work in the competitive transatlantic market.

By the way you mentioned starting off in the UK first well NI is also part of the UK as you well know!

As ridiculous as the many thousands of people who fly to DUB from the mainland UK to take advantage of the nil APD to cross the pond?

A transfer process at BFS (which has no APD on LH sectors) might have been a positive thing if it was done correctly through a coordinated devolved Aviation strategy, which is really the problem for BFS because our dip**** politicians are too busy playing pet projects in BHD and LDY which means BFS can never really take a bit of business back from DUB because it has to fight for its own traffic against sniping and undercutting from within NI which doesn't have the capacity for 3 airports.

[EI-A330-300]

Second Dog

UK passengers via DUB pay a sizeable amount of APD, remember connections are not fully exempt from long haul bands.

[bongoo]

Ah right so it's BHD and LDY'S fault and nothing to do with the fact it was a struggling route from a dump or that there is far more attractive and cost effective alternatives just a short drive down the motorway. Glad we got that cleared up...

[SecondDog]

Ah right so it's BHD and LDY'S fault and nothing to do with the fact it was a struggling route from a dump or that there is far more attractive and cost effective alternatives just a short drive down the motorway. Glad we got that cleared up...

Only thing you cleared up is that you don't read English very well

[tigger2k8]

I can't help but think that our neighbours in the south may have had part in complaining... after all, they will remain in the EU and DUB is only 2hrs away... maybe that's just my paranoid side kicking in..

I'm surprised that the EU cares so much over £9m, there's far more money being thrown around the EU every day for far less worthy causes..

Guess I'll be getting a refund for my April flights :-/

[West Brit]

3 million per year aint worth it. However EU against 'state' cash as it may affect competition in this case-seems strange. What about BHD/AMS would EZY not have a case?

[EI-A330-300]

West Brit

Its about how its structured hence KLM get away with it and thousands of routes across Europe. Aren't the Welsh paying Flybe as well.....

[BHD2BFS]

The only airline I could possibly see attempt a New York route would possibly be VS and maybe not until the summer season.
The chances of another American airline coming to Belfast when all fly from Dublin is very slim.
Aer Lingus is out of the questions
However VS have always been a well known name in NI which is why Orlando has done well, and if we are being honest most of us never thought VS would arrive at BFS with a B747
A New York route would obviously be on a 330 (correct me if I'm wrong) and with regards to crewing from Belfast would be a piece of cake

[Skipness One Echo]

The key problem is that times change. A few years ago it was all about GLA and EDI was a wee local airport with all the TLC going west, when politics and the economy changed EDI overtook and left GLA behind to play catchup. The gulf between BFS and DUB is considerably wider than that. DUB is now in a different ballpark and the need for year round long haul to NI just isn't there.

Having Scottish route stop in NI would just have gifted UA's local traffic to Delta given they pay to fly non stop and not via Belfast. If one stop was acceptable, via LHR has a better hard product and lounges.

[josechung]

It was a sad day indeed. Agree that the £9mill was too high a price but as someone who uses the route yearly, I have a lot of good memories.Hopefully the airport can find another airline asap.

The one thing that has annoyed me no end is the arrogant (almost agressive) response from the Green party. The 'a few people will be disadvantaged going to dublin' or their former chair saying go to dublin for better immigration.. for a party that promotes 'shop local' it seems airports are exempt. But then they always were amatures on the economy.

[EI-BUD]

Indeed a sad day for NI where the single daily rotation to the US is being axed, though I sense that Stormont may rescue this situation, potentially to late to save the UA link, but worth some sort of subvention, presented in whatever fashion may attract a carrier with lower costs like Norwegian etc.

All that said the key challenge for UA is not a lack of demand, in fact the numbers were strong, their challenge is that the uptake at the front cabin is poor, and whether the route be profitable or not, other routes will present a much greater return potential and with higher fares and greater uptake in business etc.

I'm hoping BFS get a replacement. Wow could turn up on KEF and offer a one stop US route, like from Dublin and soon Cork...in the mean time, though not ideal particularly from people north of the province, DUB offers a great range and frequency of routes. A significant proportion of NI / Ulster residents live equidistant from DUB and BFS...

[OltonPete]

New York

I think the CAA stats demonstrate that there is at least a summer market and although unprofitable for United the obvious answer as per Una Due Tfc mentioned earlier you would think is Norwegian on the 738 MAX. They won't be in service until late summer unless the aircraft arrive early (there was talk) but still better than nothing,

They boast a low cost base, the pax numbers are there in summer and the only issues would be if a one aircraft base is viable and what to do in winter but a reduced service mixed with Canaries might be an option etc.

BFS-BHX easyjet - Same as on the BHX thread rumours of renegotiation and if true no doubt some will see it as good business practices by easyjet but I would not be one of them. I don't think the rumours have come from the BHX end,as all is quiet. They almost made a complete week of sell-outs on BFS-BHX sector - Thursday - Wednesday this week just gone. Just to add fares have lowered for the coming week compared to last week but still reasonable at times although the usual BHX-BFS cheap morning fares in mid week.

Pete

[mwm991]

Shame to see this. With most of the mid-sized regional UK airports (BRS, BFS, NCL) I definitely think there is a seasonal leisure market that exists to cities like NYC and Orlando.

I'm sure something will come up again. Norwegian will be having a sniff you'd think.

[El Bunto]

their challenge is that the uptake at the front cabin is poor On one of the few occasions where I was routed via United to Newark I enquired at check-in as to the possibility of upgrading to Business. The cost would have been £799, one-way, on top of the fare my company had already paid. I don't know what the going-rate for business class is but it's hard to see how that increment could be justified. Even if it had enabled me to work for seven hours it would still have been five times my salary for that period; by my rough maths you'd need to be earning £200k pa to justify it, at which point you're more likely to be flying in a bizjet or sending your staff.

[rutankrd]

El Bunto generally Business fares UK-New York start around $1800 return and go up to as much as $3500 depending on ticket flexibility and it doesn't usually matter if non stop or via a hub when on a J ticket.

That upgrade quote is pretty much in line with what you should expect.

[mart901]

EWR - what a shame. My only hope is the executive will enter into a tendering process like the LDY-LON one. Also its been mentioned UA leaving due to poor financial performance on the route, I believe they have never stated this and that it is profitable, however I know from the travel industry contacts I have the take up of business class is nowhere near enough.

BHX

Latest from EZY, discontinued for time being.

[SecondDog]

EWR - what a shame. My only hope is the executive will enter into a tendering process like the LDY-LON one. Also its been mentioned UA leaving due to poor financial performance on the route, I believe they have never stated this and that it is profitable, however I know from the travel industry contacts I have the take up of business class is nowhere near enough.

BHX

Latest from EZY, discontinued for time being.

I realise that there was some support during that last ditch effort from Stormont (but moreso from Westminster) but that was too little too late and the deal was not disguised correctly to get it past the EC competition rules. The fault lies with the complacent approach by our devolved administration, who do not seem to understand the aviation market and the particular challenges we face in having a competitor with a land border. My hope is that now we seem to have a bit of purchase within the executive (you have to give it to the MD for shaking them up on that front) we might be able to get them to focus on some semblence of a strategy to attract airlines here.

That DUB is lightyears ahead is because they did this a long time ago and enjoy unrivalled state support through all the appropriate channels.

I think any trans atlantic service may have to err toward the low cost market but so be it.

In terms of the effect it has on BFS, ironically enough it probably doesn't hurt the airport too much from a financial standpoint considering they are not having to subsidise the flight any longer to the tune of 3 million. It is more about the loss of face and with it the loss of ability to attract other carriers that will be the problem.

Lets hope our politicians can be cajoled into a bit of action.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

EWR - what a shame. My only hope is the executive will enter into a tendering process like the LDY-LON one. Also its been mentioned UA leaving due to poor financial performance on the route, I believe they have never stated this and that it is profitable, however I know from the travel industry contacts I have the take up of business class is nowhere near enough.

Going down PSO route then I think they would need to set aside more than 9 million.

It is more about the loss of face and with it the loss of ability to attract other carriers that will be the problem.

For years wtih UA they have not attracted such carriers. Now not totally the airports fault but UA staying or going would unlikely make a difference because airlines flying to the States for example would demand the same level of support UA are getting and so on.

I realise that there was some support during that last ditch effort from Stormont (but moreso from Westminster) but that was too little too late and the deal was not disguised correctly to get it past the EC competition rules. The fault lies with the complacent approach by our devolved administration, who do not seem to understand the aviation market and the particular challenges we face in having a competitor with a land border. My hope is that now we seem to have a bit of purchase within the executive (you have to give it to the MD for shaking them up on that front) we might be able to get them to focus on some semblence of a strategy to attract airlines here.


Would have to wonder about how much notice either side had given and how it may of played a role.

[BFS BHD]

Azerbaijan Airlines are bringing their B787-8 to BFS on Tuesday for a Football charter. Will be staying to Saturday.

[El Bunto]

Azerbaijan Airlines are bringing their B787-8 to BFS on Tuesday That's a first on both counts, I believe, but not departing Baku until afternoon local time so will probably arrive after dark here; Baku is UTC+4 and flight time around 4.5 to 5 hours.

[EI-A330-300]

The European Commission has confirmed that it received a complaint over the Stormont Executive’s support for a United airlines route from Belfast to New York.

A statement from the Commission said: “EU state aid rules in the aviation sector allow public authorities to grant support to improve the accessibility of a region and to meet citizens' transport needs.

“However, those rules do not allow public authorities to grant a specific airline an undue advantage to the detriment of competing airlines and distorting competition in the Single Market.

“The Commission takes note of the fact that the Northern Irish authorities and United Airlines have decided to end a recent arrangement, according to which United Airlines would receive financial support for continuing to operate its Belfast-New York route.

“Such support can raise concerns under EU state aid rules, because United Airlines competes directly on transatlantic routes with other carriers and airports compete for traffic on those routes.

“The arrangement was put in place without prior notification to the Commission under EU State aid rules. The Commission received a complaint alleging that the measure was in breach of EU rules and looked into the matter. The United Airlines announcement allows the Commission to close the case.”

Complaint was made to European body over Stormont NY route support | UTV - ITV News (http://www.itv.com/news/utv/2016-11-07/complaint-was-made-to-european-body-over-stormont-ny-route-support/)

[GAZMO]

New Transatlantic service to replace UA going out tonight


GOOSE BAYIFA182420:50 :confused:

[aer lingus]

Home (http://www.boards.ie/) http://b-static.net/www/i/breadcrumb_divider.png Topics (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1671) http://b-static.net/www/i/breadcrumb_divider.png Motoring & Transport (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=546) http://b-static.net/www/i/breadcrumb_divider.png Commuting & Transport (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=246) http://b-static.net/www/i/breadcrumb_divider.png Train & Rail Systems (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1499) http://b-static.net/www/i/breadcrumb_divider.png French government buys 15 TGVs to try to save Alstom factory
They have no problem with the French doing this of course. More E/U interference.

[El Bunto]

GOOSE BAY IFA1824 20:50 A Challenger on a private charter. Don't know why it's on the list, usually they omit all the bizjet movements in their 'wisdom'. Azerbaijan 787 en route now, looks like arrival will be around 17:20 though conversely it's not on the arrivals list... French government buys 15 TGVs to try to save Alstom factory They have no problem with the French doing this of course. More E/U interference. Why don't you submit a complaint, then? "The EU", contrary to opinion, doesn't sit around reading the news and looking for things to do.

[ILS25]

The EC didn't block the United funding. The plot thickens!!

http://http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ec-we-did-not-block-statefunded-deal-to-rescue-belfastnew-york-air-link-35198612.html (http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ec-we-did-not-block-statefunded-deal-to-rescue-belfastnew-york-air-link-35198612.html)

[cuthere]

Pro-Brexit party blaming Europe for putting a spanner in the works for NI? Surely not! Arlene et al need to face up to reality, as do the loonies in here. Leaving the EU will be a disaster for NI.

[BFS BHD]

Any news on if easyJet is dropping ACE, BHX and KEF?

Also any news on the 3rd Ryanair aircraft or is it not happening again?