BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL

[True Blue]

On the topic of EasyJet dropping the Bhx route, I look at the timings on some routes out of Belfast , especially next summer and I wonder if they are starting to lose the plot. It seems to me that with the increase in frequencies that they really need to base another aircraft here, but don't want to. So we end up with some really stupid times on routes and a decision to stop Bhx for now. What does that mean? And what use is that sort of on/maybe off service.

[Husky One]

There are no more airframes coming. The aircraft can (apparently) make better money elsewhere so they stick with 5. I wouldn't say they're losing the plot but they are clutching at straws with the resources they have. The commercial team seldom see farther than LGW and have regularly proved lack of understanding in the local market. The stage is set for Ryanair to clean up - if they are interested

[SecondDog]

Any of you interested in having a look/snapping at the Dreamliner departing, current ETD 1000. Parked on 22 so should get a decent view from the viewing gallery of the push/departure.

[GAZMO]

See EZY advertising flights to LGW for £16.99!!!

[BFS BHD]

Friday 7th July 2017 there is two flights landing at the same time (09:50) from Gatwick with EasyJet both on A320s. Wonder is it a mistake?

[West Brit]

Belfast Charter Programme to Freedom of the Seas (http://www.nitravelnews.com/news-stories/2294-belfast-charter-programme-to-freedom-of-the-seas.html)
More flights to Barcelona

[BFS BHD]

Anyone know why RYR Learjet was in BFS today? None of the aircraft was tec.

[4Screwaircrew]

BFS BHD I don't know why, but the Lears don't just move engineers and spares for AOG aircraft, senior management are shuttled about in them when necessary.

[BFS BHD]

Cheers I see flights up to 8th February 2018 are loaded on RYR website but not bookable yet. Appears to be the same as this winter.

[GAZMO]

They are getting as early as Jet2 with flights for 2018!!!!!
No word yet on the third aircraft??

[BFS BHD]

I see Easyjet has put Lanzarote on sale for April 2017. Was only bookable to March 2017.

[BFS BHD]

Seems to confirm a 2nd A320 being based?

Current A320 schedule for Tuesday 11th April 2017:
EZY830 BFS-LGW - 06:15-07:40
EZY831 LGW-BFS - 08:20-09:55
EZY6793 BFS-FAO - 10:35-13:35
EZY6794 FAO-BFS - 14:05-17:10
EZY6703 BFS-ALC - 17:55-21:55
EZY6704 ALC-BFS - 22:30-00:35

Lanzarote times:
EZY6731 BFS-ACE - 16:40-21:05
EZY6732 ACE-BFS - 21:45-02:05

[True Blue]

Belfast growth to continue despite profit slump: Easyjet - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/belfast-growth-to-continue-despite-profit-slump-easyjet-35218276.html)

The above article appeared in the Belfast Telegraph today. Although not that well written, it seems to suggest that a new route to Porto will be offered as well as additional flight/s to Split.

Any views?

[AerRyan]

Could it be a mistake considering the just announced Split and Porto from Dublin?

[Shamrock350]

Looks like it's referring to Aer Lingus from DUB as it also mentions their Miami announcement just before it.

[True Blue]

Yes you could be right.

[Startledgrapefruit]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38048445

[GAZMO]

Expensive mistake by the de icing driver. Wonder how much that mistake will cost

[SecondDog]

The reporting of it is cringe-worthy. Feel sorry for the driver of the rig. Insurance will cover it all, that is why they need multiple 10s of millions worth of cover to operate airside. Just hope they give him a second chance - not always the case with handling agents.

[eastern wiseguy]

Hey it happens. I recall it happening twice in one day to Midland with two different aircraft at the City. That prompted a trip to BFS with a Beluga( iirc) with new bits . I hope the driver won't be vilified and lessons are learned and acted upon.

[BFS BHD]

With Cork Airport getting Swiss International Air Lines & WOW Air and Shannon Airport getting Lufthansa and Scandinavian Airlines does anyone think Belfast may get any new airlines or are Belfast just sticking with low cost airlines...

[aceplanes]

Interesting reading some of the posts, we came in on the first RYR from ACE on Monday 31st October, 95 sounds about right for the load. The passport chap made comment to me about the amount of people off the Tenerife and Lanzarote flights that morning that seemed to have onward connections to the mainland.
We flew to BHX on the evening EZY A319, remember two standby pass being held by the counter staff at the gate when we boarded, it was fairly full, maybe 10 empty seats...
Although a long way round and slow, it sure saved some euros....330 single each ACE-BHX was the best direct that weekend, guess the end of half term holidays for the kids.

[GAZMO]

View from BFS MD re Tourism Ireland


Belfast Airport boss criticises Tourism Ireland - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38094160)

[Copenhagen]

Could you imagine the Dublin Airport CEO lecturing the British PM?

What a bizarre rant. Belfast being the gateway to Ireland is like suggesting Bristol being the Gateway to England.

He screwed up over the United grant and having failed at blaming the EU, is now blaming Tourism Ireland and the Irish PM.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

....get NI to put more money towards it or set up your own if your not happy.

Im sure the majority in NI are happy with the setup and benefits however natural for an airport boss to have problems but doesn't mean he needs to act like a spoilt brat and toss his toys out of the pram.

He knows that those type of routes from NI wont work, they cant even get FR to do them and that tells you enough. Wonder is the reliance on low cost the real issue?

[OneBellEnd]

Interesting - if not entirely informed - perspectives indeed.


Copenhagen - How would you feel if the Danish tourism industry was depending on Hamburg or Berlin to be the designated access point into Denmark, and having your external marketing message controlled by Berlin. And in such circumstances, would you be critical of the CEx of Copenhagen Airport for pointing out the obvious difficulty?


As for United from Belfast, as I understand it the Belfast route was hugely more productive on westbound point-of-sale than the equivalent routes are in Dublin. But the fact that the tourism message in America was selling Dublin effectively as the sole entry point to the whole market meant that they were picking up almost all of the higher value US fares, with the Belfast route's existence barely warranting a mention.


As for taking control of Belfast's own external sales message, well Brexit may well deliver exactly that through Visit Britain.


Only those in NI who know no better are happy with what is being delivered on northern tourism. Remember headline increases in 'visitor numbers' mean little if they are all day-trippers from Dublin. It's dwell and spend in the Northern Ireland market which is the real metric.


And as for Ryanair, and easyJet, not doing European city routes from Belfast, if the APD position in NI was levelled out with the Zero Tax position in Dublin - they'd frankly both be all over it. ;))

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Selling Dublin in the US?, don't think so way more heavily the West/South West and US airline profiles would suggest T/A out of SNN is important as many fly into one and out of other.

As for APD, you didn't see Dublin crying about zero tax in Belfast at time....why doesn't he write to Ms Foster with similar tone and see how far he gets ;)

It will not result in routes if it goes, just look at ORK/SNN type routes and Ryanair have already said its difficult with DUB close and that will apply to Belfast. Cant see U2 been that impressed with BFS of late so route to cities when yield must be taking a hammering wont happen.

Don't ditch day trippers as they account for massive spend outside Dublin down south as well.

Nobody is forcing NI to pay TI to market it, so get your own politicians to sort out your problems however given the UA mess I wouldn't have faith.

[OneBellEnd]

I believe the saying is - Our Day Will Come! ;))

[PPRuNeUser0176]

It will, but don't try pass the book if you don't like it ;)

[BFS watcher]

From all accounts the guy was asked to give his opinion and his view which he did. If the Southerners don't like it then so what they are the ones that asked! Free speech and all that. Second largest airport on this island stands up for itself and its country, all I can say is good on him if only more in NI had the same amount of cojones we would be in a much better place. BFS certainly ain't failing, double digit growth this year and back in the UK top 10. so as OneBellEnd says Our Day Will Come!

[Copenhagen]

Firstly, since when was I a southerner?

Not a surprise that BFS EWR had a stronger westbound point of sale as it Is not a major tourist or business destination (Bristol vs London similar for example). A weakened sterling further damaged the route no doubt. I have access to Load Factor data for DUB ORK SNN / EWR and the flight was holding its own from a load perspective.

Tourism Ireland does quite a good job in advertising Northern Ireland sights. Indeed I took my own kids to Cultra recently! Those who suggest that Visit Britain should promote the north need a geography lesson.... Northern Ireland not being part of Britain.

If you were Tourism Ireland, would you spend most of your money on a market with say 3000 seats daily (US - Dublin) or 200 seats daily (US - Belfast). The vast majority of non U.K. BFS seats are outbound holiday routes to Spain, rather than cities with significant inbound potential, so again, where would you promote?

Sadly, Belfast has an unfair stigma of 'is it safe?' That takes more than a generation to overcome.

The BFS CEO should worry about things in his control and keep out of politics.

Oh, and someone should correct the typos on his biography on the BFS Website.

[Jamie2k9]

Wouldn't take much notice of it, clearly orchestrated (not by CEO but little surprised he took the bate), in the process he has made himself look like a complete knob to put it nicely.

Its the second nugget to be dropped by the political members in NI and it wont be the last and the timing is no surprise.

Some early backside covering happening as the pressure is on however blaming Government down South will not fool many rational people.

My comments will go over many peoples heads who post here, so look at bigger picture....before posting a silly reply.

[josechung]

Make what you will of this (in other words dont start on me), but landed back in BFS from EWR this morning and staff at BFS were telling me that Virgin are apparently offering some sort of LAS/MCA/NYC mash up once UA leave.

The sticking point? They want serious investment in links to BFS.

Obviously if true, it would require backbone/investment from stormont which we all know won't happen.

[SecondDog]

Wouldn't take much notice of it, clearly orchestrated (not by CEO but little surprised he took the bate), in the process he has made himself look like a complete knob to put it nicely.

Its the second nugget to be dropped by the political members in NI and it wont be the last and the timing is no surprise.

Some early backside covering happening as the pressure is on however blaming Government down South will not fool many rational people.

My comments will go over many peoples heads who post here, so look at bigger picture....before posting a silly reply.

For someone so superior, you should really know how to spell 'bait' correctly.

Considering you are so heavily involved in the DUB thread and list your location as Dublin, you'll forgive us for taking your defence of the set up with a pinch of salt.

[mart901]

You know Jose that's not entirely unbelievable. When you consider how much money has been waved at United and also the route development fund which to my knowledge has yet to be tapped. I'd imagine there's a lot of political pressure for the executive to produce some sort of transatlantic service, it's highly likely airlines have been invited to the table and Virgin have a successful operation here already. Nothing may indeed come of it.

[SecondDog]

Considering there was no ruling against the support package (United used the fact that there would have to be an investigation after EI/IAG made their complaint, to pull out and avoid the hassle.)

Rumblings are that the support would have passed scrutiny had it gone ahead so sure there is a bit of encouragement.

The issue with TI is a real one but the folks in the Stormont hill up until now have been largely the problem, being seemingly uniterested in the aviation sector as long as they had their wee Airport round the corner to suit them (and the DUP head of TI as the CEO of said Airport, happy to concentrate on stealing business from BFS rather than doing a proper job)

Hopefully this United business seems to have awoke some of our less useless politicians to the notion that there is a need to put some plans in motion to attract airlines/routes here.

[j636]

Can I ask where the EU Commission confirmed it was EI/IAG who made the complaint or are people putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5?

UA were likely delighted that someone tipped the EC off as it avoids any bad PR for them. You wouldn't see them run so quick if the market was that important to them.

[Copenhagen]

Total NI planned investment in Tourism Ireland is €14m in 2016, down from €16m in 2013. That's about 25% of total TI budget. Consisdering NI population is about 30% of all Ireland population, it's an underinvestment.

The paltry NI tourism investment demonstrates the stupidity of the investment level to keep a seasonal 757 to EWR. Would make much more sense to work with Easy, Lingus and Jet2 to promote inbound leisure routes from France, Germany and Italy.

[BHX5DME]

Can anyone confirm that Easyjet have pulled this route from April (or is there still time for a 'deal' to be done)

If lost that's 250k seats pa gone between BHX-BFS

[FRatSTN]

Does anybody know what the frequency was on BFS - BHX in September 2016?

Something like this must be about right...
3x Mon, Thu, Fri, Sun
2x Tue, Wed
1x Sat
= Total 17x weekly

Based on that it works out no more than about 128 or 129 pax per flight which isn't horrific, but not great.

[Husky One]

Easyjet will pull the route if agreement cannot be reached with BHX on fees.

[El Bunto]

Does anybody know what the frequency was on BFS - BHX in September 2016?


w/c 5 September 2016:

Mon
Dep EZY191 193 195
Arr EZY192 194 196

Tue, Wed
Dep EZY191 195
Arr EZY192 196

Thu, Fri
Dep EZY191 195 197
Arr EZY192 196 198

Sat
No service

Sun
Dep EZY193 195 197
Arr EZY194 196 198

[Jamie2k9]

For someone so superior, you should really know how to spell 'bait' correctly.

Considering you are so heavily involved in the DUB thread and list your location as Dublin, you'll forgive us for taking your defence of the set up with a pinch of salt.

Would not use the word superior. I'm not narrow minded and don't allow political views cloud my judgment. Something one or two can't get past on here.

As for my location, don't always believe what you read on the internet.

I partly agree with your second post but then again you make an assumption it was EI who complained when you have no evidence. There are a lot of other airlines, airports and people who could of made them aware. It's really obvious why you would put EI top of the list......and it goes back to my rational point.

Total NI planned investment in Tourism Ireland is €14m in 2016, down from €16m in 2013. That's about 25% of total TI budget. Consisdering NI population is about 30% of all Ireland population, it's an underinvestment.

Yeah maybe TI will promote BFS as the gateway when NI are paying 75% of the budget.....

[SecondDog]

Can I ask where the EU Commission confirmed it was EI/IAG who made the complaint or are people putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5

You can certainly ask but it is kinda pointless on an internet rumor website


UA were likely delighted that someone tipped the EC off as it avoids any bad PR for them. You wouldn't see them run so quick if the market was that important to them.

That point is not in debate, they were always quite open about the fact that they could make more elsewhere. We are talking about the importance of the route to BFS and the NI economy. It is very easy to look at a headline figure and say '£6 million of govt. support for three years - what a rip off' but I imagine the cost/benefit analysis for the country is not quite so simple. Still, why think about anything in detail when you (people in general as opposed to you specifically) can make a snap judgement based on headlines and hearsay.

[OltonPete]

Source:CAA for the passenger figures and June and August estimated load factor due to not knowing the pricise date the summer cuts started and ended.

April 2016....17937 (16575).......134.....86%
May............18511 (16573).......132.....85%
June...........18643 (16432).......130.....83%
July............15014 (11629).......132.....85%
August........15868 (11692).......135.....87%
September...18511 (15993).......136.....87%

All pretty similar and all showing good growth, as the summer cuts in 16 were not as severe as summer 15.

As I have mentioned before if you follow the website it is pretty straightforward the weak services are the BHX outbound in the morning Tuesday-Thursday dragging load factor down, which is no surprise as it is heavily weighted as Belfast originating service.

Little doubt June, July and August the aircraft probably could yield more from Belfast to the Med in the morning but what about the other 2 - 4 sectors in the day and 9 months of the year if the whole service is pulled? Winter it is particularly strong but I can't see it going seasonal.

Pete

[GAZMO]

Easyjet carried 196K pax on this route in 2015. During 2016 pax numbers have been up double digit most months. I guess close to 220/225 K for this year.

[Cozy F]

If EZY do ditch the BFS BHX route, it will be one of the staples for a major Ryanair growth offensive at BFS in 2017. ��

[BFS watcher]

Total NI planned investment in Tourism Ireland is €14m in 2016, down from €16m in 2013. That's about 25% of total TI budget. Consisdering NI population is about 30% of all Ireland population, it's an underinvestment.

The paltry NI tourism investment demonstrates the stupidity of the investment level to keep a seasonal 757 to EWR. Would make much more sense to work with Easy, Lingus and Jet2 to promote inbound leisure routes from France, Germany and Italy.

From all accounts Easy and Jet2 can't work with TI due to their Dublincentricity and Lingus only fly to those countries from Dublin. Copenhagen your ignorance is epic......NI contribution has dropped because of the fall in the pound not because of any drop in funds anyway under the Belfast Agreement (I think) TI is supposed to sell NI more aggressively than the South.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Jet 2 have no interest outside bucket and spade routes. I don't buy the Easyjet argument as Aer Lingus don't do massive work with TI either. Both are more interested in bucket/spade but not to Jet 2 extent.

TI don't pay airlines money which is likely why many are not that bothered.

Aer Lingus employ their own marketing teams in big markets like the US and they have a presence (possibly 3rd party) in places like Germany to promote their network. They even have people contracted in markets like Japan, NZ, Australia and South Africa where they don't fly to...

[inOban]

The viability of a route like BHX doesn't depend only on absolute numbers, it depends on revenue. In today's crazy flight economics, most of this can come from ancillary revenue - on-board catering, and services booked through the website such as parking. I suspect that these short domestic routes generate very little ancillary, so unless they get people to pay a full fare, around £50 I think, they may be unprofitable even when busy.

[Copenhagen]

. Copenhagen your ignorance is epic......NI contribution has dropped because of the fall in the pound not because of any drop in funds anyway under the Belfast Agreement (I think) TI is supposed to sell NI more aggressively than the South.

You think wrong.

The investments quoted were from the 2014 - 2016 tourism strategy document. A planned drop in investment.

Calling epic ignorance when you have made up your response? If you read the strategy document you will see what all sides agreed the focus on NI should be. Since I'm epically ignorant, I'll let you educate yourself.

Until Belfast can sustain direct flights from source cities, a tourism focus needs to be on convincing more tourists to turn left when driving out of DUB.

[cuthere]

Copenhagen. Having a reasoned, logical debate with the Aldergrove cabal is a waste of time and some of them are an excellent example of why Northern Ireland is stuck in the 1970s. Best to leave it and let them believe what they like.

[SecondDog]

Copenhagen. Having a reasoned, logical debate with the Aldergrove cabal is a waste of time and some of them are an excellent example of why Northern Ireland is stuck in the 1970s. Best to leave it and let them believe what they like.

Cuthere, people in glass houses..... you do a pretty poor job of reason and logic and sensible chat as soon as a certain poster joins the debate. If you don't like what BFS supporters post on the BFS thread there is an easy solution...

[OltonPete]

inOban

I agree 100% and I have little doubt better yields including ancillary income can be made on other routes from BFS but will that be the case for 12 months of the year or do easyjet just take the hit offer a limited high season service on BFS - BHX but persevere for the other 9 months where yields appear to good 80% of the time?

Other than that take the plunge on untested routes where you might end up parking your aircraft in winter or I end up sending it to another base.

Fares are below £50 one way for part of Tuesday, all day Wednesday and inbound BHX Thursday but that is unusual,

Pete

[cuthere]

Second dog, I wholeheartedly admit that DC eijit pushes my buttons and have apologised in the past for responding to him. That however does not detract from the fact that you are a hypocrite. If you don't like THE TRUTH as posted by Copenhagen and Jamie2K9 on the BFS thread, YOU also know what to do about it.

As an aside. I'm astonished EZY are quibbling with BHX. When one considers FR we're carrying 4-5k a month from LDY at times, surely it's a no brainier that they replace EZY, or even usurp them.

[SecondDog]

Second dog, I wholeheartedly admit that DC eijit pushes my buttons and have apologised in the past for responding to him. That however does not detract from the fact that you are a hypocrite. If you don't like THE TRUTH as posted by Copenhagen and Jamie2K9 on the BFS thread, YOU also know what to do about it.

As an aside. I'm astonished EZY are quibbling with BHX. When one considers FR we're carrying 4-5k a month from LDY at times, surely it's a no brainier that they replace EZY, or even usurp them.

Well, now that you have written it in capitals.....

As for your thoughts on EZYvsBHX that might be an example that there is more to the debate than you are aware of, a bit like the debate surrounding the internal workings of the tourism support mechanisms for the island of Ireland.

For example, someone above said that the airline doesn't receive money from TI but TI pay for the marketing of routes if the airline agree to open the route etc. etc. Ways and means cuthere, Ireland has some very good ways and means of disguising state aid. We in the North have a lot to learn from them.

[GAZMO]

Interesting departure tomorrow from BFS. Any ideas or info?


IVALO S50893 07:00

[cuthere]

Second Dog. Wow! I'm impressed. You're privy to the internal machinations of a foreign government. You must have contacts at the highest level. Yet you spend your time haunting PPRuNe?

Excellent.

[Buc Driver]

Interesting departure tomorrow from BFS. Any ideas or info?


IVALO S50893 07:00

Just a guess, is it a possible Santa flight!

[El Bunto]

Just a guess, is it a possible Santa flight! Affirmative, due back late on Sunday. Day trip due out & in on the 20th.

[SecondDog]

Second Dog. Wow! I'm impressed. You're privy to the internal machinations of a foreign government. You must have contacts at the highest level. Yet you spend your time haunting PPRuNe?

Excellent.


Yes, it seems like I fit in rather well, sure there are many such people judging by their absolutism. Yourself included ('THE TRUTH' remember? - If you knew it was 'true' then you must also have knowledge of the inner workings of many agencies no? yet you also spend your time on PPruNe.... Glass houses...)


But I risk the ire of your bitter self for pointless drivel as opposed to giving my opinion on NI Aviation (you know on the thread dedicated for such opinion)


Away back to the Derry thread and play with your buddy

[DC9_10]

Great reply Second Dog. Most of us ignore Cutters and his idiotic rants. Is he playing with his tractor or his obviously small dick. Hopefully not in Oxford, his assumed town. This is after all a rumour network. Things come true some things don't, but my WX and FR are from good sources so you never know. Now back to LDY and Cutters love in. Not many an airline beating a path to their door for PSO funding from an already council funded airport that's also being funded by the NI executive. The EU will be all over it.

[EI-BUD]

Hello All, I've been out of touch with posting on here in some time.

Re: the Ivalo comments above

EasyJet has flown to Ivalo in previous winter seasons ex LGW with a charter series, I'm thinking from memory that it was more than just Christmas, so perhaps ski too...?

Ei-bud

[El Bunto]

Optimum period for skiing in Lapland is March to early May. Thankfully they have a stream of wealthy parents and their mystified children to see them through the dark months!

[Jamie2k9]

Icelandair announce x3 weekly Q400 from 1 June.

[BFS BHD]

Wrong airport will be from Belfast City Airport.

[Jamie2k9]

Oh dear.....who will the CEO blame for that?

BHD now the long haul gateway to NI with BA, KLM and now this!

Also TI have featured in press release...

[bongoo]

Oh dear.....who will the CEO blame for that?

BHD now the long haul gateway to NI with BA, KLM and now this!

Also TI have featured in press release...
Shouldn't take long for the dummy spitting to begin....

[ILS25]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38229228

[Startledgrapefruit]

DUP nominates airport boss for Tourism Ireland position - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38229228)
Meanwhile over in Big Arlene's lair in East Belfast:
Hey boys hey. that was some party last night hey. Say what you will about them but it was nice of the shinners to send us that non alcoholic christmas punch you know hey
Now hey where's my Belfast news letter boys hey

Who they hell was at my emails..............hey

[El Bunto]

Graham Keddie to be appointed to the board of Tourism Ireland Physician, heal thyself...

[SecondDog]

Funny how all that worked out eh? Hope he can ruffle them up a bit.

[BFS BHD]

Wizz Air stopping Katowice service from 07th Jan 2017 to 29th Mar 2017. They did have it down to one weekly, think I posted about it a few weeks ago.

Vilnius remains at two weekly.

[GAZMO]

I thought EZY would have decided today about BHX, ACE and KEF, since they announced the Autumn release today.


Still no change on web site, all above still ending in April 17

[DC9_10]

KEF available from Oct 11th. Twice weekly.

[GAZMO]

Going to be interesting next winter with five flights per week to KEF from the Belfast airports.


Anybody any news on BHX?

[mart901]

Air Iceland is only on sale during summer next year so not necessarily anything other than seasonal. BHX not on sale as of yet.

[OltonPete]

I have reviewed the BFS post 24 April schedule (well 2 weeks in May) and it appears clear to me the BFS-BHX service is still possible as the gaps fit the summer 2016 schedule for the route.

If it does get dropped I can only see a massive timetable changes which will mean new routes for Belfast or changing the NCL based Belfast flight to BFS based aircraft and giving NCL new flights.

It does appear easyjet are keeping their options open still.

There of course is no particular rush as BHX-BFS advanced bookings will be minimal anyway and if replaced by city routes it is not much of a risk but if replaced my Med routes they really need to be on sale soon.

Pete

[GAZMO]

Interesting times ahead Pete for EZY
Just noticed NCE only twice weekly next summer rather than normal three, and with BCN being covered by non based aircraft I think a few city options in the pipeline
Only my thoughts

[BFS BHD]

October Stats:

Berlin - 3,918

Milan - 2,348

Others which includes other airlines.

Alicante 19,031 +49

Malaga 17,414 +32

Lanzarote, Tenerife, Krakow & Wroclaw only had one flight at the end of October

Lanzarote - 9,304 +34

Tenerife - 6,059 -7

Krakow - 4,179 +12

Wroclaw - 300

[GAZMO]

Good growth on domestic front as well, all routes up except BRS
BHX +6%, over 20,000 pax......will EZY drop this route??
Rolling 12 months 4.96 million pax

[BFS BHD]

Dubrovnik on sale twice weekly from 14th May 2017. (Tuesday & Sunday)

[GAZMO]

Would have preferred to see an unserved destination, although it might help bring the cost of Jet2 flights to Dubrovnik down, especially when Sunday flights going out within a few minutes of each other

[BFS BHD]

Still gaps I think so could be more in the new year. :)

[sealink]

I'd be interested in the load factor for the BGY flights. I've travelled on it a couple of times and the flights were full. Living in Milan this route will be very handy for me. I would like to see the frequency increase but for BFS 2 times a week is a decent start.

[GAZMO]

Sealink
147 pax per flight. Probably just OK, but Ryanair would probably like to see the number about 170+ per flight

[BFS watcher]

Bel Tel reporting 25% growth in November if correct pretty stellar stuff. I wonder who the CEO will blame?

[BFS BHD]

Anyone know if Ryanair are still basing the 3rd aircraft for S17? All seems to have went quiet!

[EI-BUD]

BFS Watcher,

Yes pretty stellar performance and well done to the airport. LGW now with much increased easyJet service and of course Ryanair still not like for like business, it is not surprising to see such growth, the lions share of which is LGW. This tends likely to continue though will show once FR on LGW is in its 13th month. Of course we also need to factor in from early 2017 worth EWR going thay is practically a 10K per month drop.....so it's all in the mix...

[INKJET]

Word is that Norwegian maybe heading your way from the US, they are recruiting cabin crew for NY & BOS area right now. This will likely be on the 738 MAX but may start with the 738 with seats capped at 150

[mart901]

I'd be surprised if Norwegian or Wow or similar didn't at least have a seasonal run to the US at some point in the future. The lack of APD on transatlantic must surely be a pull. The level of demand would be ideal for 738.

[GAZMO]

Just noticed BEE from Glasgow diverted to BFS.......tech issue or otherwise

[Straightahead]

Gazmo
Full emergency with hydraulic problems and no steering.Towed off Runway 25 little or no delay to operations.

[True Blue]

See Gatwick was up 120% in November.

[GAZMO]

Yep Gatwick doing well. Wonder what the yields are like?


Interesting arrival tomorrow. First time I have seen arrival or departure to this airport
BADAJOZZT587113:55

[El Bunto]

Full emergency with hydraulic problems and no steering. Perfect username! BADAJOZ ZT587113:55 "Game of Thrones" crew / cast charter.

[GAZMO]

Swisport staff going on strike on 23rd and 24th December. Going to play havoc for passengers at Belfast airports!!

[tigger2k8]

Second threat in 3 years I believe, I doubt it will go ahead, if it does it could pave the way for a new handling agent to move in, as I have been told performance is shocking at times due to staff experience and moral

A little birdy told me, although could be bull:mad: that procedures were not being followed ref the de-icing incident, yet the driver is still there after numerous issues over the years :=:oh:

[BFS Dude]

I was looking on BFS wikipedia and noticed someone had put Danish Air Transport to Birmingham but was removed. I no anyone can change wiki but just wondering if there was any truth to it?

[GAZMO]

BFS Dude, I would doubt it unless they has posted a link to verify it

Big question does anyone know when EZY are going to finalise summer schedule and is FR going to bring in the third aircraft???

Does anybody know

[BHX5DME]

Easy, Ryanair or Danish - not bothered as someone flies BFS-BHX

[BFS BHD]

Anyone else noticed EasyJet have reduced of flights to UK airports from BFS? GLA down to one flight on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, LGW appears to have lost one or two flights as well. Few others have lost flights too.

I see the airport will hit 5 Million passengers tomorrow.

[GAZMO]

BT article re the 5 million mark#


Belfast International Airport passenger numbers cements its place in top 10 across UK - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/belfast-international-airport-passenger-numbers-cements-its-place-in-top-10-across-uk-35305639.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[SecondDog]

Looks like Swissport strike is off.

[GAZMO]

Yep, I'm sure there are lots of happy passengers.....and families, me included. Just checking EZY and FR and no seats available from LON to BFS for next two days
.....and congrats to BFS on the five million

[Cozy F]

Is the planned BA cabin crew strike over Christmas on or off then? ☹️

[SecondDog]

Still negotiating Cosy. Not as progressive as the Swissport talks though apparently (BBC)

[Jamie2k9]

Looks like the DUP breached public spending guidelines as well as EU aid rules....it's clear who was in his ear over funding for the route. Big mess like #cashforash.

United Airlines: No consultation with Ó Muilleoir ahead of Hamilton's £9m aid - The Irish News (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/12/22/news/no-consultation-with-finance-minister-ahead-of-simon-hamiltion-s-9m-hand-out-to-airline-giant-847898/)

[AerRyan]

The DUP are great at giving away money aren't they! Suppose everyone's good at spending someone elses money.

[panpanpanpan]

We have a government consisting of terrorists and career politicians, none of which live in the real world no matter which fleg they salute. Is it really any wonder that we are in such a mess?:mad:

They know sweet fa about running a country, some of the clowns in Stormont spent a lifetime trying to blow the place to bits while the others spent a lifetime trying to build their own little empires and line their pockets, why should we be surprised when it turns out none of them have a grasp of the finer details of aviation practicalities.:yuk:

[BFS BHD]

Whats the latest on Ryanair for S17? Still a gap from around 12pm to 4:30pm on Tue, Wed, Thur, Sat and Sun? I'm sure they won't have the aircraft sitting round for a few hours?

[GAZMO]

It will probably be middle of next week at earliest before FR and EZY will finalise summer schedule, unless anyone knows different

[DC9_10]

See IAG airlines cancelled a few LHR flights today from BHD, Both BA and EI. BE cancelled all LCY rotations also. FR cancelled one LGW and EZY one STN. Back in the day BA would have thrown in an L10-11 or latterly a 767 in order get pax to where they were going. Unfortunately, as Willie has stated," the problem with BHD is most of our aircraft can't land or take of from city airport"'

[El Bunto]

as Willie has stated," the problem with BHD is most of our aircraft can't land or take of from city airport"' It's a close-run thing, "most". 132 aircraft in the BA fleet are A320 family versus 138 others :)

[LandingConfig]

See IAG airlines cancelled a few LHR flights today from BHD, Both BA and EI. BE cancelled all LCY rotations also. FR cancelled one LGW and EZY one STN. Back in the day BA would have thrown in an L10-11 or latterly a 767 in order get pax to where they were going. Unfortunately, as Willie has stated," the problem with BHD is most of our aircraft can't land or take of from city airport"'

Problem is, the majority of flights across the network were affected - where do you send the widebody?

[Wycombe]

where do you send the widebody?

I believe a 744 ran LHR-CDG and back yesterday (Fri) evening, so some backlog-clearing flights are being operated.

[BFS BHD]

Jet2 running a one of flight to New York EWR on the 14th December 2017.

[BFS watcher]

Telegraph saying BFS pax numbers up 33% in December with final 2016 pax numbers at 5.15 million up 17% on the year.

[AIRPORT66]

Any updates on whats happening to the Easyjet route to Bhx.

[BFS BHD]

Belfast International Airport says it is "very close" to securing a replacement direct flight to the US as passenger numbers reached record levels of 5.15 million for 2016.

According to the airport, the amount of people passing through the arrivals and departures halls increased by more than 17% last year.

However, the hub is losing Northern Ireland's only transatlantic service, to Newark, after United Airlines announced it was pulling the plug. Its last flight will be on Monday.

But airport boss Graham Keddie says it is "pursuing a number of positive leads" for a new service to America.

He said growth was driven by inbound visitors, as well as those from the Republic, and he was confident Aldergrove could increase passengers to 5.4 million this year.

Belfast International passenger numbers surge with new US route on cards - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/belfast-international-passenger-numbers-surge-with-new-us-route-on-cards-35344868.html)

[AerRyan]

Who else is there? United were the only US airline to fly to minorish European airport's.

[owenc]

I don't know, maybe a Norweigan 737?

With United now bringing a 777-200 from EWR and a 767-300 from ORD, there is pretty much only 1 or 2 routes from Dublin which are now operated by narrowbody aircraft.

It used to be that around 40-50% of the transatlantic flights were operated by 757-200. This change in seat capacity shows how much Dublin has grown. I guess Dublin has pretty much taken up most of the demand that existed from Northern Ireland.

A 737 sized aircraft (150 seats) is the most that I can see being feasible from Belfast. I don't know what airline would do this other than Norwegian.

[AerRyan]

Who used to operate 757's? Any 757 capacity removed has been added to by Aer Lingus adding 757's.

The question of is there actually demand must be asked.

[True Blue]

Bfs - Lgw route up by 388,486 pax or 83%, 2016 vs 2015. So route was used by 858,830 pax in 2016.

[owenc]

Well United had 4x daily 757's at one point, American Airlines had 3x daily 757s and Delta had 1x daily 757.

Now, United has 2x 757's, 1 777 and 1 767, American has 3x a330's and 1 757, Delta has 2x a330s. Quite a substantial increase in capacity.

[A320.b744]

I have a feeling that if it's a full service carrier, it'll be with Delta Air Lines using a 757. They fly to Edinburgh and are starting seasonal flights to Glasgow, so they seem to be expanding past Manchester/London, though only during the summer months.

I can't see American Airlines doing it, given they've just pulled out of Birmingham.

I'd say if Aer Lingus had remained at BFS, they might have taken over using a 757, though I doubt that BHD has the runway length to handle a 757 for a short sector, never mind transatlantic.

I do hope, even though it's extremely unlikely, that Virgin Atlantic expand out of Belfast as they're doing out of Manchester. Basing an A330/B788 and flying to a mix of Delta hubs and leisure destinations such as Atlanta, Boston, Las Vegas, New York, Orlando 2 or 3 times a week would be a huge leap forward for connectivity with the US, even if it was just during the summer months. But that'll never happen - honestly I'm surprised VA have seen any success in Belfast.

If Norwegian start flying, either to JFK/EWR or somewhere like Stewart Intl, I can't see it being very successful, given the lack of connecting passengers. A seasonal 738 service might be sustainable if flown 3-4 times a week, but certainly not daily.

Whoever takes over the New York service, I'd be very surprised if it was more than 5 weekly flights during the summer and 3 during the winter.

On another note, if Belfast does ever get another Canadian service, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't at Westjet 737 with a stop-over in Halifax/St Johns.

[owenc]

Wasn't United profitable in the summer months though?

I can't see another American carrier coming in with a 757 again after United's failed endeavour.

[A320.b744]

Load factors would suggest that the route was profitable, and pre 2015 (suspended Jan-Mar) United carried almost as many passengers on the Belfast route as on their Birmingham route. The route survived for 11 years, which is rather impressive given BFS is a regional airport, so I think other airlines will be quite interested in flying to Belfast now that there's no competition.

[Husky One]

The route was profitable. It's not about the money it made, it's about the money United could've made elsewhere hence holding the Assembly to ransom. Sad affair really but I think we'll see a replacement ..probably Westjet or Norwegian

[AerRyan]

Yield often makes the difference.

BHX also has competition, so BFS having the same package as BHX isn't exactly a great measure of success.

[El Bunto]

Norwegian is 'only' scheduled to receive six transatlantic-capable 737 MAX this year, all by June, so unless some incentives have been offered to jump up the priority queue I don't see them coming to Belfast before 2018.

[josechung]

I'm not going to get into justifying a US flight from BFS, the numbers speak for themselves.

It will be interesting to see who the airport are talking to.

[AerRyan]

Yet the service is gone!

[SecondDog]

Yet the service is gone!

For the reasons given above. There is a market there and it will be up to the respective airlines if they want to come in.

[AerRyan]

For the reasons given above. There is a market there and it will be up to the respective airlines if they want to come in.

I don't see any valid reasons.

Birmingham is a far larger airport and yield is a deciding factor.

The service likely did make money in the peak summer season, but did it make enough money.

[A320.b744]

UA gave the Executive an ultimatum - give us more money or we will leave. The Executive were unable to deliver so UA had no option but to leave. If they had stayed in spite of this then they'd have lost a lot of bargaining credibility with other regional airports. UA would have been unable to milk the funds of other regions where their Newark service is the only transatlantic link.

[owenc]

Well what airline is likely to provide a self sustaining route from Belfast? I can't see it being an American airline, wouldn't they just go along the same path as United has?

*It's also probably going to be quite a long time before we get the route replaced, let's not kid ourselves*

[OltonPete]

Surely has to be Norwegian they are on about.

6 738 MAX due this year and Belfast without any APD and figures of 9000 pax a month in peak. Norwegian would be daft not to talk to Belfast let alone the other way round. Of course winter is totally different but if it is a US based aircraft they could send it elsewhere as they already have US 737 flights in winter.

Also imagine the headline base fare and how they could milk it in publicity much more so than EDI.

A320.b744

Obviously BHX are in a weak position at the moment with AA leaving but I can't imagine they have done much of a deal with United up until now but I suppose you can never be sure.

easyjet

Still nothing rumoured from the BHX re the BFS route about it ending all very quiet.

Pete

[BFS BHD]

Was there not talk of Norwegian using the B737-800NG as well for some USA routes? Not meant to cap seats to 150 instead of 189?

[BHD2BFS]

Not sure if already been mentioned but jet2 doing a one off flight on 14th Dec to NY
only 1 date for a 4 day trip

[BFS BHD]

Not sure if already been mentioned but jet2 doing a one off flight on 14th Dec to NY
only 1 date for a 4 day trip

Yes I posted about it a page back. :)

[SecondDog]

UA gave the Executive an ultimatum - give us more money or we will leave. (No they didnt.) The Executive were unable to deliver (no they weren't) so UA had no option but to leave.(yes, they did) If they had stayed in spite of this then they'd have lost a lot of bargaining credibility with other regional airports (The deal at BFS would have been a good bargaining tool to put to other airports). UA would have been unable to milk the funds of other regions where their Newark service is the only transatlantic link (not if they had a template ironed out at BFS).

See my notes in brackets

[BHD2BFS]

Would jet2 invest in a New York route?
Maybe 4-5 times a week with it doing canaries in between?

[AerRyan]

Norwegian are interested in attacking current markets, of course the exception is Cork for obivous reasons (political bait).

United have not only cut Belfast, they've made several cuts in the UK including cutting Newcastle completely.

Let the economy and currency settle first, I've no doubt that Belfast will not see a Transatlantic service in 2017.

Maybe again once the A320 NEO family and the 737 MAX become widespread. When this happens I can see more than just New York being added.

[SecondDog]

Would jet2 invest in a New York route?
Maybe 4-5 times a week with it doing canaries in between?

Jet2 are very much concentrating on their package holidays, not sure if regular transatlantic and the logistics involved with it would fit that direction of development. But they could surprise people I suppose....

[pwalhx]

If Jet2 were to enter the transatlantic market with a regular service I suspect it is more likely from one of their English bases initially do you not think?

[SecondDog]

If Jet2 were to enter the transatlantic market with a regular service I suspect it is more likely from one of their English bases initially do you not think?

NI has the lack of long haul APD in its favour and a market just vacated that was relatively busy if not high yield enough for United.

I don't think they will go outside of the occasional charter like this but I hope I am wrong.

[josechung]

Yet the service is gone!

Troll alert.

[AerRyan]

Troll alert.

Well if the route is as lucrative as seems to be made out here, how come it's gone?

You can't just call an opinion you don't like a troll in an effort to discount it, you have to ask yourself, is the person who doesn't make any argument the real troll?

[canberra97]

People who immediately call someone a 'troll' just because they do not agree with opinion of that person have to be the most immature people out there who do not exactly understand the meaning of the said word.

Pathetic springs to mind!

[AerRyan]

Agreed Canberra.

[Copenhagen]

UA dropped the route because it was loss making. Even with all their feed they couldn't make it work.

Norwegian will have no feed on either side of the route and will rely on outbound Northern Ireland traffic. With GBP falling in value and USD on the opposite trajectory, this would be a risky game.

Northern Ireland has a fantastic tourist product and warm welcome. It will take longer for the fear of terrorism to depart the minds of US tourists though.

[AerRyan]

Fear of terrorism in the North? That's hardly still a fear? Many Americans live in cities hundreds of times more dangerous than anywhere in NI, I don't accept terrorism as a valid reason for lack of market at all.

[All names taken]

The whole terrorism thing in NI is fast becoming a distant memory TG.
NI is probably safer in that respect than Paris and Americans are still going there in big numbers.
However I would disagree that 'Northern Ireland has a fantastic tourist product...' having visited probably every corner of the land many times over many years (visiting better half's side of the family) I honestly don't think there's much to offer. Belfast is a pretty average large town / small city IMO, Derry is tiny and lifeless and the rest quite boring. Only Enniskillen feels like it has a touristy vibe and the lakes are nice. Thing is though that Enniskillen feels less like NI and more like ROI. There's probably something in that.

A TATL service will rely on the good folk of NI going on holiday but that surely cannot be a subsidised service......low income taxpayers who can never dream of going to the States subsidizing shopping trips to NY for middle class ladies from Holywood.....? Wrong on so many levels.

[BHD2BFS]

When you see the numbers of passengers who travel through Gatwick Heathrow and Manchester on a daily basis to connect with America there is clearly the numbers to support an American route
I do think a westjet service with all its connections to Canada and parts of America is definitely sustainable

Let's see what connecting passenger numbers will be like with Icelandair from BHD it has clearly been a selling point for management there showing that we are losing united. Although it's a Dash operating the route atleast it's a flight in the right direction rather than heading to the mainland or even Amsterdam as they promote this route as a possible gateway to America

[owenc]

Fear of terrorism in the North? That's hardly still a fear? Many Americans live in cities hundreds of times more dangerous than anywhere in NI, I don't accept terrorism as a valid reason for lack of market at all.

The perception of Northern Ireland further a field is detrimental to its success/potential.
BBC News and other broadcasting agencies only mention Northern Ireland when a bomb goes off etc.

[owenc]

The whole terrorism thing in NI is fast becoming a distant memory TG.
NI is probably safer in that respect than Paris and Americans are still going there in big numbers.
However I would disagree that 'Northern Ireland has a fantastic tourist product...' having visited probably every corner of the land many times over many years (visiting better half's side of the family) I honestly don't think there's much to offer. Belfast is a pretty average large town / small city IMO, Derry is tiny and lifeless and the rest quite boring. Only Enniskillen feels like it has a touristy vibe and the lakes are nice. Thing is though that Enniskillen feels less like NI and more like ROI. There's probably something in that.

A TATL service will rely on the good folk of NI going on holiday but that surely cannot be a subsidised service......low income taxpayers who can never dream of going to the States subsidizing shopping trips to NY for middle class ladies from Holywood.....? Wrong on so many levels.

It might be a distant memory in Northern Ireland.. Maybe not further afield..

NI is a small country so the perception will take a while to change.

[SecondDog]

Whole lot of uninformed crap today on the board.

It is almost like you want to talk about doom all the time. Some of the assumptions you make are unreal.

[owenc]

What is the alternative? What do you propose? Why does the Republic/Southern half of this island manage to make such a lucrative case while Northern Ireland struggles?

Belfast airport, an airport with 5.1 million passengers cannot manage to retain one daily flight to EWR while SNN an airport of only 1.7 million passengers can manage to bring in 400,000 passengers from EWR, PHL, ORD, BOS and JFK. Infact, in the summer season, Delta Airlines and Aer Lingus manage to fill two Boeing 767's to BOS and JFK.

Clearly, American citizens are filling the seats there because County Kerry and it's environs alone, does not have the population to fill 400,000 seats.

Northern Ireland's poor reputation further afield is obviously having a detrimental effect on its capacity to draw in visitors from foreign locations.

For our population, we should be able to have at least two daily flights to the United States; in the summer season anyway.

[El Bunto]

UA dropped the route because it was loss making. Even with all their feed they couldn't make it work. Can we knock this myth on the head please? Unless you work in the revenue department at United you can't say that for certain. The best we as laymen know is what the airline itself said: that there are more profitable opportunities elsewhere in the network for the use of a 757 airframe. They've been saying that even since the days of full-tier APD: Q190 Oliver Colvile: Forgive me—I have heard your argument—but why are you continuing to operate the service? What is in it for you? ... Bob Schumacher: Profit. Q191 Oliver Colvile: But you say you are making a loss, though. Bob Schumacher: It has been profitable. House of Commons - Northern Ireland Affairs Committee - Minutes of Evidence (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmniaf/1227/11062902.htm)

[toledoashley]

That's not 100% right, this is could be where FR and DY offer a transfer/transit arrangement. I believe it is these regional airports where DY are looking for the FR feed, not the large internationals like LGW/CPH/ARN/OSL.

[EGAC is Better]

Is anyone privy to the numbers which detail the percentage of United Airlines passengers who orginated in NYC as opposed to elsewhere in the route network?

That would give an idea as to whether a point to point service is sustanable or if onwards connections Stateside would be required to attract the numbers needed to entice a new carrier.

[owenc]

I have no idea. But i've used it twice to go to NYC and seen quite a few people from NI standing around at the airport train station.

[EI-BUD]

EGAC, I don't know about the BFS EWR route specifically, but UA have said before in an interview with some of the airline journals that 60% of passengers flying into EWR from international destinations are connecting passengers.

My guess wood be that BFS is the same or higher, given the lack of alternatives ex BFS...

[BHD2BFS]

http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/norwegian-air-looking-taking-belfast-12428443

[Copenhagen]

Can we knock this myth on the head please? Unless you work in the revenue department at United you can't say that for certain. The best we as laymen know is what the airline itself said: that there are more profitable opportunities elsewhere in the network for the use of a 757 airframe. They've been saying that even since the days of full-tier APD: House of Commons - Northern Ireland Affairs Committee - Minutes of Evidence (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmniaf/1227/11062902.htm)

The document states that BHD EWR had the lowest average fares of any route out of the UK, with J class 1,200 less than Heathrow.

Also stated that the route was profitable in the Past.

[Una Due Tfc]

As I understand it, the reason the £3 million pa subsidy to UA was illegal was because it was agreed behind closed doors and not put to tender, so there's nothing stopping the same deal being laid on the table and being open to public tender right? And UA could then bid for it, along with anyone else interested....so why hasn't it happened?

[mart901]

I think from what is being said certainly support is available for the route, at what level isn't clear but there will be support offered, marketing and 0% APD, there is a route development fund available which was signed off in Stormont long before the current 'crisis'

[INKJET]

If the good people of NI want a US link, then right now Norwegian offers their best shot, they are the launch customer for Europe for the 738MAX with the first aircraft arriving in 3 months and will have 6 by the end of June. These are ETOPS spec aircraft, nothing else comes close in min fuel burn terms for 'thin' routes.

EDI is being set up as a narrow body long haul base and whilst the routes have yet to be formally announced its no secret that they are look at BOS/JFK bay area, but not necessarily JFK OR BOS.

I would expect a slow ramp up with aircraft routing through EDI/BFS/MAN/ORK/BHX & maybe STN

Who else could do it?, not Jet2 with the 757 and they are unknown in the states, a legacy may jump in as a spoiler, but thats unlikely.

Norwegian have huge brand awareness at both JFK and BOS, getting the cost down will be key, so secondary airports no APD and so on..

Norwegian maybe waiting to see what the Donald does about their approval before launching the route, but his in tray is getting fuller by the day.

[owenc]

I wouldn't mind Norweigan as long as they offered a service to JFK/EWR (not Stewart) and improved their onboard product.

Belfast to New York isn't too long of a route so a 737 MAX wouldn't much different to the United 757 in terms of comfort/endurance.

[mart901]

I'm not sure Donald Trump would stand in the way. Although he's very pro American business he is against stifling business, he thinks it needs setting free of red tape, blocking growth seems contary to his ideas....that said anything might happen

[Una Due Tfc]

I'm not sure Donald Trump would stand in the way. Although he's very pro American business he is against stifling business, he thinks it needs setting free of red tape, blocking growth seems contary to his ideas....that said anything might happen

He's a politician now, he'll do whatever ensures his own survival to the detriment of everything else, just look at Arlene as an example...

[mart901]

The world's first wood pellet fired 737.....

[Startledgrapefruit]

The world's first wood pellet fired 737.....
Funded by a £2000 grant to fly from Arlene Foster International airport Enniskillen "When you smell the silage you know you are there! Hey "

[BFS BHD]

I see Ryanair as announed new routes from Stansted. You would have thought BFS would have been one of the new routes with them ending LDY-STN.

[A320.b744]

CAA November and December figures are now available, so I've had a look at how Ryanair's new routes - the ones with no direct competition - have performed since commencing.

Berlin (4 months) 15,209 79% LF
Milan (4 months) 9,654 73% LF
Gdansk (2 months) 4,999 73% LF
Warsaw (2 months) 5,761 85% LF
Wroclaw (2 months) 4,986 73% LF

So Warsaw and Berlin seem to be the winners, at least during the Autumn/Winter months. It'll be interesting to see how Milan will perform during the Summer, as 73% LF isn't the best of starts.

Krakow has also seen some growth this year, including a 97.5% increase in passenger numbers during November and December when Ryanair started operating. This puts annual passenger numbers at 54,580, a 23.6% increase. Next year I could see this figure topping 80,000.

Total passenger numbers at BFS were 5,147,399 which is a 17.2% increase.

[DC9_10]

Good loads thought considering the majority of the routes have started in the Autumn/ Winter months. I would expect Bergamo to improve considerably as we move to Spring/Summer. I wonder how many polish workers from over the border are using the new services. Loads of Irish and quite a few Polish reg cars in the long stay car park last week.

[inOban]

Checking today it seems that fares are slightly less from BFS, which may explain the Irish and Polish cars in the longstay.

[DC9_10]

I have to say that the pick up/drop off facility needs addressing as a matter of urgency. Last week there was a tail back from past the roundabout and backed up to the approach road where many cars were parked up on the layby just waiting. The bottle neck seems to happen after the roundabout just before the terminal. It confused me a bit as I though BHD was Belfasts favourite airport as they advertise, and everyone flies from there. Obviously not. InOBan, more likely to do with Euro versus Pound at the minute.

[EI-BUD]

A320.b744,
Good round up there on performance! Great to see the airport doing well.
Kudos to Ryanair for stimulating the market with 1.99 each ways fares across Nov and Dec and beyond, it is sure to drive volumes, and being able to book a getaway even at the last minute for those prices is incredible.

And of course LGW, last week being able to book to fly today for 12.99 in each direction is again amazing, cheaper than staff travel on easyJet!!!

EI-BUD

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Figures also show Wizz feeling the squeeze, particularly in December.

Notice Wizz has stopped KTW until start of summer season, operated in 2016....

[GAZMO]

Yes good results all round. Well done to BFS
I am a little surprised that MD of BFS is only suggesting 5.4 million pax for 2017??
I thought with the number of FR flights in 2017 compared to last year the number might have been much higher. Any word on the third aircraft??

[BHX5DME]

EZY BFS-BHX is arounf 200k pa - if it has been axed ?

[A320.b744]

The 33% drop in Katowice passenger numbers in December is quite worrying - was there a reduced service or anything else that could have affected passenger numbers?

If it was due to Ryanair's Krakow flights stealing passengers (KRK is less than 50 miles away from KTW), then I wouldn't be surprised if the route was scrapped altogether. Maybe if Wizz operated to Belfast during the day time they'd have better fortunes; arriving in KTW at 01:35 isn't convenient in the slightest.

[BFS BHD]

GAZMO said Any word on the third aircraft

Nope all quiet now. I'm surprised there's not more flights to Faro.
I was expecting to see BFS announced with the other routes that was announced at STN the other day.
This could mean they aren't planning any more routes from BFS for now. :)

[SecondDog]

I have to say that the pick up/drop off facility needs addressing as a matter of urgency. Last week there was a tail back from past the roundabout and backed up to the approach road where many cars were parked up on the layby just waiting. The bottle neck seems to happen after the roundabout just before the terminal.

Work starts this week on widening the DOZ approach. Also, if people used the short stay/long stay for pickup as they should, the queues wouldn't be so bad. This being NI, people imagine walking 100m instead of 50 or 75 is just a tad too far😈

[A320.b744]

I was looking at CAA statistics for BFS passenger numbers between 2006-2010, and it was very interesting to see that there are several routes that had the demand but had their services reduced or dropped altogether. Undoubtedly the financial crisis led to the reduction in services, but while most services have seen increased frequencies or new operators over the last few years, some routes have been left behind. Below are a few routes that I think could be restarted in the near future, or could have more frequencies, based on previous passenger numbers. Of course, I doubt that all of these will materialise, and previous passenger numbers aren’t the most reliable for predicting market demand, but it shows that there are opportunities out there for a more diverse range of destinations from BFS.

Prague has been added and dropped several times over the last 10 years, most recently by Jet2 who cancelled the route in late 2015 after less than a year of operations. However, at its peak in 2007 when both easyJet and Jet2 operated the route, 60,526 used the service. Given the huge potential for this route and that they have just opened a new base in Prague, I’d be very surprised if Ryanair didn't start flights to the Czech capital. A thrice weekly service would offer 59,130 seats.

Rome was one of the destinations that many thought Ryanair would operate to when they opened their Belfast base last year. Aer Lingus carried 40,000-43,000 annually when they flew to FCO, and easyJet carried 44,000-47,000 passengers when they flew to CIA. A thrice weekly service offering 59,130 seats seems highly plausible, especially given Ryanair’s huge presence at CIA.

The resumption of Toronto flights actually seems quite plausible. Passenger numbers to Toronto and nearby Hamilton were constantly between 35,000-40,000 per year. A thrice weekly seasonal Air Canada Rouge service would put 42,840 seats on the market - twice weekly would see 28,560 seats up for sale. Given that 7,356 passengers travelled to Vancouver from Belfast during its peak, a viable option could be Vancouver-Toronto-Belfast. The demand is there for a Toronto route, so fingers crossed Belfast is included in Air Canada Rouge’s next expansion plans.

The commencement of Virgin Atlantic 747 flights to Orlando during the summer period was a step in the right direction, however 5,831 passengers in 2015 is a long way off peak numbers of 29,933. Given that VA are planning on retiring their B744s in the next few years, the airline could establish a full seasonal service to MCO. A summer seasonal X2 weekly A330 service would offer 31,920 seats in addition to Thomas Cook’s charter seats. However unlikely, the passenger numbers were there when scheduled services were offered, so the possibility should not be ruled out.

easyJet carried 20,081 passengers on their seasonal Nice flights in 2015. Back when Aer Lingus also competed on the route, 54,783 passengers used the service. The demand could be there for a twice weekly year long service, with two additional frequencies during the summer months, offering a total of 52,040 seats.

Paris would also be capable of handling an increased service. Passenger numbers have almost halved since 2009 peak of 144,345. Ryanair doesn’t fly to its Beauvais base from any UK airports, so I doubt they’d fly from Belfast. easyJet however would probably be able to sustain between 8-9 weekly flights without too much trouble, offering up to 146,417 seats.

Barcelona handled 122,121 in its peak, but only 37,924 seasonal passengers in 2015. Ryanair and Jet2’s new flights to Girona will help increase capacity to the area, but clearly a year round service is viable. Four weekly winter flights, with 11 weekly flights during the summer would offer 134,070 seats on an easyJet A319.

[GAZMO]

Very good analysis of routes. Would love to see Prague and Rome back, even if only twice weekly on Mon and Fri for the weekend breaks

[AerRyan]

Very good analysis of routes. Would love to see Prague and Rome back, even if only twice weekly on Mon and Fri for the weekend breaks

If every marginal route was Monday/Friday they're would be nothing to do during the week!

[LAX_LHR]

Ryanair doesn’t fly to its Beauvais base from any UK airports, so I doubt they’d fly from Belfast

It flies BVA-MAN 3 weekly.

[EI-BUD]

A320.b744,
Another great update on a very noteworthy topic!

All of the points you make some sense and you touch on what are the most tried and tested routes and those that would be high on the list of potential markets!

However, a couple of things about NI market. It tends to be seasonal to the extreme and while very attractive in June July and August the other months are less attractive. Most people want to travel across the peak July holidays, the 'July Fortnight'. This poses a problem in terms of capacity. Virgin serving during that peak time is testament to this seasonal factor at work.

Prague is a great destination and has also been served briefly by bmibaby...
Toronto - Air Canada Rouge is a step too far, this is a Westjet 737 market for sure and my sense would be that this the most attractive destination on the list, it has to be a low cost airline and a realistic size of aircraft.

Describing routes as 'viable' - take a BCN, it needs to be flown at peak times potentially at the cost of serving a strong route where the potential returns are better. Outside of attractive timings, the need to deliver low fares, on top of all the taxes etc. etc. the airline may on such flights only be getting a few £/€ per seat, couple that with low loads, and lets remember airlines have targets for load factor, in a low cost world it is usually north of 90%!!!

Airlines do have systems that allow them to get a view of where passengers are going, i.e. how many passengers boarded aircraft in Belfast City with BA / KL and were going to Vancouver etc. but NI's challenge is its proximity to Dublin and the volume of passengers who choose to fly from there. As a result of this, it is about finding an airline who is willing to take a risk on Belfast.....

EI-BUD

[Husky One]

Prague is a busted flush. The traveling masses have been there now and in NI they don't class it as second visit material. Easy's Rome service was doomed as the 737 wasn't versatile enough to lift the load off CIA's limiting runway. The big surprise was EI's inability to do any better.
I'd agree on the Westjet front. I think that's the best we could hope for. I would likely be seasonal though.

[A320.b744]

Well given that Prague has flights to 14 UK destinations, I would hope that Ryanair would see the potential in starting Belfast flights. Thousands of NI tourists visit the city even without a direct service - I hear the NI accent quite often when I'm in the city centre, and even more so when there's a stag night on the loose!

[AerRyan]

Why is everyone so sure Ryanair will continue to grow? They could easily pull most or all of the routes in a year! LGW may be somewhat safe all the others are going to be chopped and changed over the next few years imo if they return at all.

[A320.b744]

I don't think that Ryanair will grow at an alarming rate, and they'll never serve 40-50 destinations like O'Leary suggested, but I don't think that it is unreasonable to say that Ryanair could serve 20 destinations from BFS. Undoubtedly, as is the norm with FR, some of the routes currently served will be axed - hopefully not BGY, SXF or WMI - but they will be replaced by new routes.

[AerRyan]

I think it is infact unreasonable to say that. Ryanairs interests in Ireland lie in Dublin. That's been proven time and time again.

A border won't change this.

[A320.b744]

There was a genuine reason for Ryanair to leave BHD, and quite frankly I'm surprised that FR has remained in LDY for so long. Clearly DUB is the most lucrative airport on the island, given the huge catchment area, but FR still operate 17 destinations from ORK and 15 from SNN. And even DUB has seen routes cut - even their mega hub STN has seen dozens of routes axed; that's just the way FR operate.

Only time will tell if they expand from BFS, but simple economics states that expanding services will reduce costs, and if they were to cancel all European flights from BFS, the LGW route would ultimately be cancelled as well.

[Una Due Tfc]

I think it is infact unreasonable to say that. Ryanairs interests in Ireland lie in Dublin. That's been proven time and time again.

A border won't change this.

Ryanair play airports off each other, they have Cork, Kerry, Shannon and Knock by the proverbials and had Derry until recently, switching this and that between the lot depending on where the lowest charges are etc. I would argue this has restricted the number of routes actually on offer in these airports. Ryanair will run 9.99 fares all day long when they have a direct competitor on the route. As soon as said competitor backs down, the route invariably disappears altogether.

[AerRyan]

The LGW route could well be a slot holder. If I'm not wrong after a certain amount of time elapses they can use the slots for any route?

Of course I'm only suggesting an alternative outcome here.

[A320.b744]

I can't see that being the case. Other than Irish routes FR only operates to ALC and SVQ, and has actually reduced routes from LGW in recent years.

[BFS Dude]

Has BFS always been on Delta Air Lines mobile app drop down list? Is it because of Virgin flights to MCO maybe?

[Confirmed Must Ride]

FR LGW to become a feeder for DY

[Refuellerman]

Any thing else about delta ex belfast?

[AerRyan]

Why would Delta fly to BFS? United couldn't do it and they're the ones with the history of making the more marginal airports working.

Delta is a definite no in my books.

[True Blue]

AerRyan

do you see anything positive at Belfast International? Or is it all negative for you?

[AerRyan]

Oh I do, but good heavens some of the ****e being said here.

I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic. This Ryanair third aircraft that MOL promised hasn't arrived, surprise, I said it wouldn't months ago. Don't believe the promises of MOL, I should be flying from Shannon-Copenhagen tomorrow week as opposed to Dublin-Copenhagen. Mol reinvented publicity.

Delta makes no sense. It doesn't. Think realistically, with the way suggestions are coming on here it won't be long before BA are rumoured to be starting JFK!

[A320.b744]

Delta are starting flights to Glasgow, a mere 40 miles away from Edinburgh where they also fly to JFK. Clearly the vast majority of people what fit in Glasgow's sphere of influence also fit into Edinburgh's, but they've still decided to fly to both airports. Hence, I find it reasonable to assume that Delta would not ignore Belfast just because Dublin is relatively close by.

Yes United cancelled the route, but other airlines have cancelled routes before and they've been reinstated - sometimes even by the same airline - so I can't see why you find it absurd that Delta would commence flights to BFS. Norwegian seems to be the most likely option, given that BFS is unable to hold onto anything other than low cost operators, but for all we know American, Delta, heck even Aer Lingus or Virgin Atlantic could be the other two airlines that have sparked an interest in starting BFS-NYC flights. Only time will tell who recommences NYC flights, but there's no use in saying that Delta or any other airline will never start flying to Belfast.

I'm sure most people thought that Virgin Atlantic operating the B744 out of Belfast was an impossible dream, but here we have VA adding a second weekly frequency to their MCO route.

And with regards to Ryanair; just because Shannon has a hard time holding onto European connections doesn't mean that Belfast will suffer the same fate. Shannon is a failing airport that would inevitably close down if American tourists stopped coming. There are fewer people who live close to Shannon than Belfast, and there's a severe lack of industry in the west of Ireland to successfully maintain business links. There's simply not enough demand in the west of Ireland to maintain a comprehensive network of European destinations. That's the reason why Ryanair has pulled out of so many routes from SNN. Belfast doesn't suffer from this setback - NI already handles 8 million passengers per year across the two Belfast airports, with demand for more routes on the rise.

A realist would see that there is potential for further Ryanair routes, as well as new routes from easyJet and other airlines. Holding a grudge just because Ryanair don't fly to the destination that you want to from your local airport isn't helping anyone.

[AerRyan]

Delta are starting flights to Glasgow, a mere 40 miles away from Edinburgh where they also fly to JFK. Clearly the vast majority of people what fit in Glasgow's sphere of influence also fit into Edinburgh's, but they've still decided to fly to both airports. Hence, I find it reasonable to assume that Delta would not ignore Belfast just because Dublin is relatively close by.

Apples and Oranges.

Yes United cancelled the route, but other airlines have cancelled routes before and they've been reinstated - sometimes even by the same airline - so I can't see why you find it absurd that Delta would commence flights to BFS. Norwegian seems to be the most likely option, given that BFS is unable to hold onto anything other than low cost operators, but for all we know American, Delta, heck even Aer Lingus or Virgin Atlantic could be the other two airlines that have sparked an interest in starting BFS-NYC flights. Only time will tell who recommences NYC flights, but there's no use in saying that Delta or any other airline will never start flying to Belfast.

Norwegian are the only option. With brexit, all the American 3, are cutting cutting cutting. Nobodys going to start. Aer Lingus have said they won't do TA from Belfast and Virgin don't have suitable aircraft for the New York service (A330?-No)

I'm sure most people thought that Virgin Atlantic operating the B744 out of Belfast was an impossible dream, but here we have VA adding a second weekly frequency to their MCO route.

Surprising alright, but that's a niche holiday route.

And with regards to Ryanair; just because Shannon has a hard time holding onto European connections doesn't mean that Belfast will suffer the same fate. Shannon is a failing airport that would inevitably close down if American tourists stopped coming. There are fewer people who live close to Shannon than Belfast, and there's a severe lack of industry in the west of Ireland to successfully maintain business links. There's simply not enough demand in the west of Ireland to maintain a comprehensive network of European destinations. That's the reason why Ryanair has pulled out of so many routes from SNN. Belfast doesn't suffer from this setback - NI already handles 8 million passengers per year across the two Belfast airports, with demand for more routes on the rise.

Having digs at Shannon in order to gain points for Belfast isnt helping anyone. I'm realistic about Shannon too, not in fairy land like many here.

I'd like to see you back up the assertion that Shannon is a failing airport, and as for you remark about the Americans, well that's just plain stupid. Belfast city would close down if the English stopped coming to Belfast. Completely absurd comment.

Also worth digging to find Ryanair haven't actually pulled many routes this time. They've maintained alot of what they've had.

A realist would see that there is potential for further Ryanair routes, as well as new routes from easyJet and other airlines. Holding a grudge just because Ryanair don't fly to the destination that you want to from your local airport isn't helping anyone.

A big problem, which I see all across PPRuNe is that when an airport begins to grow, people imagine it won't stop and then get angry when it does.

My point on Ryanair was not keeping to their promises, I did not compare markets because Belfast is completely different to anywhere else. Ryanair said they'd bring a 3rd aircraft, they haven't, that's to be expected. It's naive to expect them to do exactly as they say given the history of Ryanair.

Belfast and NI is a very different market to the republic. Discretionary income is much lower, and industry is fairly negligible too. There is a reason that Westminster pumps billions into the NI economy every year. The percentage of private jobs is much lower. Dublin, and even the Mid West (because you so loved to dig at it a second ago) has much more international investment than NI does, there are many reasons for this, and we are not just stealing it as lovely Arlene has suggested. The economy in NI is still mending, and it is getting much better, but, especially with the current political situations (brexit) let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Ryanair is a great airline, but they won't fly your little fantasy routes to satisfy you. I said there wouldn't be a 3rd Aircraft for next summer and it looks like I'm right. Be realistic. Ryanair are currently testing the waters in Belfast. If they like what they see, they may well add more. Word of Warning is that this more may be very much be hitting current established routes as well as one or two others. If Ryanair find the market marginal, you don't know what will happen.

I'd like say what I'm surprised hasn't arrived yet, and that's West Jet. Was sure they'd announce something for this summer. Again this could be related to the economic uncertainty.

This economic uncertainty will hinder Belfast's hopes of a Transatlantic service. It is a marginal market that isn't being helped by the mass expansion of a hub down the road. Belfast still does have potential for growth, don't get me wrong, but this will certainly not be as pronounced as it has been.

I am surprised EWR was dropped so easily. I don't see it coming back quickly though. I hope I'm wrong but I'm likely not.


Take on board these points, and don't just go off with petty remarks. You know what my points were and twisting words does nothing to help this. It just makes the discussion futile.

[Jamie2k9]

IMO Belfast dons't fit the profile for a DL destination, fair play if they do secure them but I don't see it. They have had a very strong year in IE during 2015 & 16 which prehaps might help.

And with regards to Ryanair; just because Shannon has a hard time holding onto European connections doesn't mean that Belfast will suffer the same fate.

November/December stats are good however as already pointed out yield is non existent at the minute. I think you should reserve judgment for 18-24 months.

and there's a severe lack of industry in the west of Ireland to successfully maintain business links. There's simply not enough demand in the west of Ireland to maintain a comprehensive network of European destinations.

With respect there is little difference to Belfast and WOI in terms of industry, there has been low demand for a European network ex Belfast for the last decade or two as well.

A realist would see that there is potential for further Ryanair routes, as well as new routes from easyJet and other airlines. Holding a grudge just because Ryanair don't fly to the destination that you want to from your local airport isn't helping anyone.

Wouldn't bank on easyjet, bet capacity will stay flat.

[A320.b744]

Norwegian are the only option. With brexit, all the American 3, are cutting cutting cutting. Nobodys going to start. Aer Lingus have said they won't do TA from Belfast and Virgin don't have suitable aircraft for the New York service (A330?-No)

My point is that we don't know the other two airlines that are considering starting Belfast flights, but given that there are only a limited number of airlines that could potentially fly the route - American, Delta, United, Norwegian, Aer Lingus, Virgin Atlantic - i.e. airlines that have either operated from US hubs to regional airports, or have started flights from regional airports to the US, then by process of elimination three of these airlines must be the airlines that are having talks with BFS management. Whether or not any of these talks amount to a route, only time will tell.



A big problem, which I see all across PPRuNe is that when an airport begins to grow, people imagine it won't stop and then get angry when it does.

Well it's a good thing that I don't believe that BFS will continue to grow at the same rate as it did this year. I believe that, like most other airports, BFS will gain one or two routes every year, with a route being scrapped every now and again.



Ryanair said they'd bring a 3rd aircraft, they haven't, that's to be expected.


I don't understand why everyone thinks that Ryanair's success and potential expansion at BFS is hinged on basing a third aircraft. New routes can and have already come in the form of non-based aircraft, and given that the vast majority of destinations on people's 'wish lists' are Ryanair bases, I don't see why this should cause as much of an uproar as it does on this site.



Ryanair is a great airline, but they won't fly your little fantasy routes to satisfy you. I said there wouldn't be a 3rd Aircraft for next summer and it looks like I'm right. Be realistic. Ryanair are currently testing the waters in Belfast. If they like what they see, they may well add more. Word of Warning is that this more may be very much be hitting current established routes as well as one or two others. If Ryanair find the market marginal, you don't know what will happen.


I never said that Ryanair would expand from Belfast at a huge rate, or even expand at all; honestly I'm surprised that they opened so many routes within the first year of operations. I just made the point that there are several key destinations that do not yet have a direct Belfast service, and that there is the potential for Ryanair, as well as for all other airlines, to grow out of Belfast, just as there is room for them to grow out of all airports. I don't see anything wrong with thinking that there is room for growth.

[owenc]

Aer Ryan, your comments regarding British (yes, British because Britain is more than England) routes being propped up by mainlanders are unfounded.

The majority of passengers on routes to Britain originate in Northern Ireland, not England. I fly myself, from Northern Ireland to Stansted and Gatwick at least once a month, every month, all year so I actually have personal experience.

The market from Northern Ireland is mostly home grown; inbound and outbound.

Shannon airport won't close down but the other poster is right. The airport is propped by a considerable minority of its passengers utilising TATL (24% in 2015). The airport is much smaller at 1.7 million passengers v 5.1 million at Belfast. Clearly, your comments about the two regions having similar markets are invalid. The two markets are not comparable in size

I don't see Delta coming either (why would they bother if United couldn't make a success of it) but I think you underestimate the Northern Irish market. Something which is easy to do as an outsider (with no experience of Northern Ireland) looking in.

[AerRyan]

When have I compared Belfast and Shannon? I've stated several times you can't compare them. I realise you're busy with all the travelling you do Owenc but please read posts

[AerRyan]

My point is that we don't know the other two airlines that are considering starting Belfast flights, but given that there are only a limited number of airlines that could potentially fly the route - American, Delta, United, Norwegian, Aer Lingus, Virgin Atlantic - i.e. airlines that have either operated from US hubs to regional airports, or have started flights from regional airports to the US, then by process of elimination three of these airlines must be the airlines that are having talks with BFS management. Whether or not any of these talks amount to a route, only time will tell.



Well it's a good thing that I don't believe that BFS will continue to grow at the same rate as it did this year. I believe that, like most other airports, BFS will gain one or two routes every year, with a route being scrapped every now and again.



I don't understand why everyone thinks that Ryanair's success and potential expansion at BFS is hinged on basing a third aircraft. New routes can and have already come in the form of non-based aircraft, and given that the vast majority of destinations on people's 'wish lists' are Ryanair bases, I don't see why this should cause as much of an uproar as it does on this site.



I never said that Ryanair would expand from Belfast at a huge rate, or even expand at all; honestly I'm surprised that they opened so many routes within the first year of operations. I just made the point that there are several key destinations that do not yet have a direct Belfast service, and that there is the potential for Ryanair, as well as for all other airlines, to grow out of Belfast, just as there is room for them to grow out of all airports. I don't see anything wrong with thinking that there is room for growth.

This is a fairer outlook yes, but I don't see any US route coming anytime soon. You're right with there is only so many airlines that will fly these routes. It's also worth noting that Airports are always "in talks" with airlines, at least they should be. I can't see anything arising, as I've said alot of these airlines aren't in expansion mode.

[GAZMO]

Just enquired from BFS if they knew anything about EZY route to BHX. Reply


"EasyJet are currently working outsome scheduling issues. We are hopeful that EasyJet will put this routeon sale very soon"


I suppose you could read anything into that response!!

[AerRyan]

That's definitely nothing, Norwegian can't announce routes until after the inauguration of Donald trump, and a period of I think around 2 weeks has elapsed. He can still deny Norwegian the licence.

[Refuellerman]

Canberra, it's a very dim witted reference to Graham Keddie, the MD of BFS as he is Scottish.

Am only on here and the mentality is of babies, can we talk about airlines and airports and not religion, i can hear enough of that in my wee country

[Husky One]

The BHX route is being loaded into the eJ timetable. That should keep the harpies paws off it.

[EI-BUD]

I certainly at this stage wouldn't discount Wow Air, they are ideally positioned in KEF to feed BFS traffic in to Canada and the US.

If there is to be something it will be a low cost play ....

[BFS BHD]

Whens BHX going to be bookable Husky One? Not showing for me anywhere.

[DC9_10]

Refuellerman, no one mentioned religion. It was an imbecile making a reference very stupidly using the Mr Keddies nationality to berate him. Thankfully, the post has been removed.

[Refuellerman]

Refuellerman, no one mentioned religion. It was an imbecile making a reference very stupidly using the Mr Keddies nationality to berate him. Thankfully, the post has been removed.👍nice one👍👍👍

[DC9_10]

Norwegian Air looking at taking on the Belfast to New York route - Belfast Live (http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/norwegian-air-looking-taking-belfast-12428443)

Don't know if anyone seen this but makes interesting reading.

[Refuellerman]

Whens BHX going to be bookable Husky One? Not showing for me anywhere.

Bhx has been binned unconfirmed but the source couldnt be better

[AerRyan]

It's possible I suppose. I don't know how Norwegian is supposed to be starting TATL from all these airports when they have a limited amount of aircraft.

Still Belfast's best chance for TATL.

[BFS BHD]

Bhx has been binned unconfirmed but the source couldnt be better


So are EasyJet down to four based aircraft or will there be a new route to replace Birmingham?

[Cozy F]

Doubt your "source" isn't great guv!

[DC9_10]

FR polish routes seem to be in the mid 70 per cent load factor, except Krakow. These routes seem to have been started in low season autumn/winter so would be expected to mature. Good figures for start ups. These figures are the same for EI peak season summer routes from BHD if talking about percentage load factor.EI having slightly less seats per sector. I would imagine that EIs offering will be further diluted as U2, LS, and FR compete and the travelling public mix and match fares and airlines to get the cheapest deal, putting pressure on EI yields and loads from BHDs stand alone operation. This is also not taking into consideration EI swapping slots with Shannnon meaning first EI departure from BHD will be 0845 am to LHR and the other two departures later in day within 20 minutes of BA. Personally, although I might be wrong, and feel free to discuss, I think EI are not committed to Belfast and will withdraw.

[GAZMO]

Have to agree on one of your main points. Just booked flight from LHR to BHD in June arriving LHR at 6.10am, having to wait around until after 11am for flight to BHD and BA and EI departing within 15 mins of each other!! Think they could work together on their scheduling.........sorry maybe this should be on BHD thread

[Refuellerman]

Doubt your "source" isn't great guv!

Wait and see guv!

[El Bunto]

If Belfast could move fast enough to become the first UK airport to offer USA pre-clearance then they might be more attractive to fifth-freedom carriers ( like Ethiopian who use Dublin ) rather than trying to sustain a stand-alone transatlantic service. However it seems that Manchester is planning to be first in 2020...

[LAX_LHR]

Belfast isn't on either the first wave or second wave list of cities the US has selected for pre-clearance, so, would need to be very,very, very fast to be the first UK airport.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

You need US carriers operating to get USPC....for example you would never get it cleared if DY, VS, TCX wanted it and no US carrier presence.

[BFS BHD]

Tried to select BFS-BHX for July and it loaded but no flights are showing. Saying BHX is on sale to 28th October 2017 but nothing shows. Is this them uploading the flights or is it nothing?

[BFS BHD]

All above routes except ones with () have a extra weekly flight in April/May 2017.

[SecondDog]

Tried to select BFS-BHX for July and it loaded but no flights are showing. Saying BHX is on sale to 28th October 2017 but nothing shows. Is this them uploading the flights or is it nothing?

Not looking good I'm afraid. In fairness though they will shift capacity rather than cut it.

[BFS BHD]

Looks like they have. Posted increases above your post.

[AIRPORT66]

Birmingham will be a big lose to the domestic network from Bfs,maybe Ryanair will take it over at some point in the future.

[Husky One]

BHX will remain orange and should be available to book soon. No harpies involved. The delays were due to protracted negotiations with BHX over fees. Now resolved.

[BHX5DME]

Husky One

I hope are right and EZY continue the BHX

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Saw on twitter from a journalist that DY are seeking an aid package for a NY aervice.

They are no fools!

(Edit - from 9 Jan so may of been discussed)

[mart901]

Depending upon who needs to sign that off in Stormont that could be interesting. Unfortunately/fortunately depending on how you look at it a president has been set now by the United deal, that said there is a fund of assistance already signed off.

[AerRyan]

There is two problems here,

1. The aid package cannot be government funds.

2. Norwegian won't be operating to New York, but infact Stewart, which is a nice distance from New York.

[mart901]

However Aer Ryan the distance from Stewart to New York is less than Belfast to Dublin

[AerRyan]

Agreed, but I think that this would limit the market largely anyhow.

[SecondDog]

Agreed, but I think that this would limit the market largely anyhow.

A bit like EWR is in New Jersey but had the fastest links into NYC.

If you build it they will come.

[mart901]

Coach America are in talks with Stewart to provide a direct link to Manhattan and other tourist destinations. I hear various stories about transport from airports serving New York, the latest about EWR and how fiddly the train service is

[owenc]

A bit like EWR is in New Jersey but had the fastest links into NYC.

If you build it they will come.

EWR is close to New York. I used the service in June, and (for me) the journey into the city (wtc) took around 30 minutes by train.

[owenc]

Coach America are in talks with Stewart to provide a direct link to Manhattan and other tourist destinations. I hear various stories about transport from airports serving New York, the latest about EWR and how fiddly the train service is

Too far for me i'm afraid. Wouldn't be too fussed on taking a two hour bus after a 6/7 hour flight.

[Una Due Tfc]

If Norwegian did launch it's a choice between a 90/120 odd minute bus journey at this end (IE down to DUB) or that end. Personally I'd prefer to do that kind of thing at this end as it's a familiar environment, and New York traffic!

When visiting to Paris I used to head up to DUB rather than fly from SNN to BVA and spend 2 odd hours on the bus into the city.

[mart901]

That argument Owenc is great until you factor in the 2hr bus ride here after the flight back. Also the interstate in US is much better than the A1. It's 60miles Stewart to NYC, DUB to Belfast is 100.