BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL

[BHD2BFS]

Just wondering what Thomsons operations at BFS consist of
Are the routes on the wiki page correct
And do they base an aircraft there year round?

[True Blue]

TOM only about mid-May to about mid-September. Their on-line timetable will tell you all you need to know.

TB

[BFS BHD]

Routes TOM does are BOJ, CFU, SSH, LPA, IBZ, ACE, AGP, MAH, PMI, REU, TFS, DLM.

BOJ starts 26th May and ends 30th September (1 Weekly)
CFU starts 23rd May and ends 10th October (1 Weekly)
SSH starts 27th May and ends 14th October (1 Weekly)
LPA starts 24th May and ends 11th October (1 Weekly)
IBZ starts 28th May and ends 1st October (1 Weekly)
ACE starts 22nd May and ends 16th October (1 Weekly)
AGP starts 25th May and ends 12th October (1 Weekly)
MAH starts 28th May and ends 1st October (1 Weekly)
PMI starts 3rd May and ends 25th October (3 Weekly)
REU starts 23rd May and ends 26th October (1 Weekly)
TFS starts 25th May and ends 12th October (1 Weekly)
DLM starts 26th May and ends 13th October (1 Weekly)

All done by a B737-800 from Sunwing. No flights in Winter.

[BHD2BFS]

Thanks for the response

[BFS BHD]

Looks like BFS-ALC is dropped for W14/15 for Jet2 as its for sale at other Jet2 bases :(

[GAZMO]

I know jet2 are early birds in releasing flights, so I still think there is time. Twice weekly in winter would be OK

[BFS BHD]

Will the new owners be making any announcements soon on what they have planned for BFS?

Also any rumors on new routes or airlines??

What would the chances of Qatar starting up at BFS on the B787 or A330 to go head on head with Emirates & Etihad at DUB?

[j636]

What would the chances of Qatar starting up at BFS on the B787 or A330 to go head on head with Emirates & Etihad at DUB?

Would say its only a matter or time before they go head to head from DUB before BFS.

[GAZMO]

Would love to see Quatar operating from BFS but I think if anything Canada would be first on the horizon

[Dee747]

What would the chances of Qatar starting up at BFS on the B787 or A330 to go head on head with Emirates & Etihad at DUB?

Simple - NIL.

With Qatar flying to just Heathrow, Manchester and Edinburgh in the whole of the British Isles. the chances of them flying to a regional airport such as Belfast are not even remote, they're non-existant. What would be the business case?

The answer to your question was actually in your question - "head on head". The only way you can do that is from the same airport, and no matter anyone's political opinions about north/south, UK/Ireland or anything remotely connected, the simple numeric and realistic facts are that Dublin Airport is a massive player with a large population living within two hours driving time, and more importantly it serves the capital of the Irish Republic.

BFS in itself is not in the same league when it comes to having the pulling power to attract many world airlines. It might rightly be important to the people in Northern Ireland, but while it competes directly with BHD for airlines and passenger numbers it can't build the critical mass necessary to generate sufficient traffic to be attractive to most airlines. In aviation terms it remains, and will remain, a regional airport. Our expectations should be based on that.

[GAZMO]

Have to agree DEE747 that Dublin will always be the larger airport for the reasons you stated. Until we have only one airport for NI we will continue to lose out to Dublin

[BFS BHD]

Okay thanks for the reply :)

[Mlinnie]

How many flights are there to Orlando and Enfidha next summer?

[EGAC is Better]

Have to agree DEE747 that Dublin will always be the larger airport for the reasons you stated. Until we have only one airport for NI we will continue to lose out to Dublin

I would go even further and say that even if Northern Ireland only had 1 airport, it would still lose out to Dublin. Population demographic's make it a simple choice for international airlines.

Question: Does our airline want to serve the island or Ireland?
Answer: Yes
Question: Which airport has the biggest population catchment area within reasonable travel time?
Answer: Dublin.

Unfortunate but true and trying to convince anyone otherwise will always be a losing battle unless the "folks on the hill" (or better put, us taxpayers) want to pay handling fees and fuel bills.

[ILS25]

BFS will be lucky to hang on to what it's got. There will be no growth on the international side of things. It's deathly quiet at off peak times and there are bound to be days that it's hardly worth them keeping the doors open. I am pro BFS by the way.

Different subject. Does anyone know if Menzies are going to hang about since they are losing the easyjet contract to Servisair. Surely they will hardly stick around to serve the New York Continental service only ?

Belfast telegraph business report on BFS here: Company report: Belfast International Airport - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://shar.es/DlWGw)

[carlrsymington]

EGAC has nailed it.

[EI-BUD]

Interesting to see some Jet2 flights on ALC BFS 'making a short stop at East Midlands'. Even more interesting to see on Jet2 booking engine the following message appear below the price quote and time:

"This flights makes a short stop in East Midlands"

Date i saw was Dec13, not sure if there are others. Hadn't seen this before.

[GAZMO]

I assume they are picking up pax at EMA. If so makes sense during quiet winter months. Maybe they should consider it for some other destinations

[stab3.5up]

Would menzies stay at bhd as well? Is it servisair or swissport have the ezy contract?

[AIRPORT66]

Menzies are staying in Belfast /Bfs,Bhd.

[yeo valley]

servisair have the contract.likewise at uk airports just signed contract with easy.

[Bmi-fan]

Looks like this morning's United arrival from Newark is diverting to Shannon - presumably due to the blustery conditions.


Anyone know why they'd choose to go to Shannon instead of DUB?

[Smiler1070]

It diverted because the runway was closed for about 30 mins. I was on Easy to Bristol and as we pulled away from the stand I saw several plastic barriers being blown from near the private aviation area right the way towards the runway. UA circled for a while before diverting. Pretty blustery this morning but flights were coming and going

[Dee747]

Possibly gate (un)availability at Dublin, or the fact it was also equally stormy at DUB. May even have been that SNN was the closest to the NAT track he was on and was a designated diversionary airport as a result.

[BFS BHD]

easyJet launches fear of flying course in Belfast!

easyJet, the UK’s largest airline, has put on sale six new Fearless Flyer courses to help nervous travellers across Britain overcome their phobia – including their first ever course in Northern Ireland.

From spring 2014 the ‘Fearless flyer’ courses, which at £189 per person are amongst the most affordable in the UK, will return to Manchester, Bristol, Gatwick, Stansted and Luton airports and take place at Belfast International for the first time.

More Here: easyJet launches fear of flying course in Belfast - Belfast International Airport (http://www.belfastairport.com/en/news/8/293/easyjet-launches-fear-of-flying-course-in-belfast.html)

-------------------------

Thomas Cook Airlines first new Airbus A321 to start holiday flights from Belfast!

Following the recent arrival of Thomas Cook Airlines UK @FlyTC first new A321 into its fleet, registration G-TCDC, the aircraft is now set to take up its role based at Belfast International Airport taking holidaymakers from Northern Ireland on holiday to destinations across Europe and North Africa.

The aircraft, which was this week christened ‘Sunny Heart’ to reflect that it’s also the airline’s first aircraft to exhibit the new livery, arrives on the evening of 12 December. The aircrafts first departure from Belfast will take place at 0945 on Friday 13th December taking holidaymakers to Tenerife for their wintersun holiday.

More Here: Thomas Cook Airlines first new Airbus A321 to start holiday flights from Belfast - Belfast International Airport (http://www.belfastairport.com/en/news/8/295/thomas-cook-airlines-first-new-airbus-a321-to-start-holiday-flights-from-belfast.html)

[BHD2BFS]

any reason as to why Belfast was given the newest aircraft in the fleet?
I thought it would have been placed at a bigger base


on another note with an additional tank as mentioned, can the aircraft travel to Canada?

[BFS BHD]

Salzburg on sale for Jet2 from EDI, LBA & MAN but not on sale from BFS so has it been dropped??

[BFS101]

Inghams still appear to be using Jet2 Salzburg for their ski flights to Austria, as per their website.

[BFS BHD]

Sorry forgot to put the year this is for next year winter 14/15 that they haven't got up, still operating this winter 13/14.


Geneva now added by Jet2 at 1pw on Saturdays same times etc as this year for 2014/15.

So far:

Tenerife= 2pw (Tuesday & Friday)
Lanzarote= 2pw (Thursday & Sunday)
Geneva= 1pw (Saturday)

Not loaded= Alicante & Salzburg.

Possibly maybe thinking of going to 1 based aircraft in Winter?

[GAZMO]

With the limited number of flights by LS in the winter period one aircraft would be enough for any winter period.


Does anybody think there will be any new routes for next year?

[BFS BHD]

United Airlines service into BFS sames to be cancelled tomorrow! Wonder why?

[GAZMO]

Strange as the UA flight is still on the arrivals board

[BFS BHD]

UA outbound cancelled due heavy snowfall forecast at Newark Airport.

2 Ryanairs have diverted to BFS from City of Derry due to wind and one from Knock with the same problem. Aer Lingus Regional also diverting into BFS from shannon as im writing this!

[GAZMO]

EI diverted as well from MAN

[BFS BHD]

All together BFS handled 5 diversions from different airports across the island of Ireland, Airports included Shannon, Knock, City of Derry & Dublin.

2 RYRs from City of Derry (Inbound from Stansted & Prestwick).
1 RYR from Knock (Stansted again)
1 RYR from Dublin (Inbound from Berlin Schonefeld Airport)
1 EIR from Shannon (Inbound from Manchester (I think))

Funny that all the EINs went to SNN!

[EI-A330-300]

Only a handful of EI's DUB flights were forced to divert!to SNN. It was mainly EIR diverts most of the day. FR were worst affected with diversions today.

[EGAC is Better]

any reason as to why Belfast was given the newest aircraft in the fleet?
I thought it would have been placed at a bigger base


I initially wondered the same BHD2BFS.

Perhaps it is to maximise the fuel savings across the A321 fleet? Outside of GLA (which seems to be a 757 base), BFS probably has the longest sectors from the Uk so the savings will be greater than operating the same route from eg. MAN. I think the new sharklets alone create between 3-5% increase in fuel efficiency and the newer versions of the CFM engines are probably even more efficient than those currently hanging on the rest of the older A321's in the fleet (TCDA, is maybe an exception to that).

Just my opinion though, could be totally wrong!

[GAZMO]

Interesting caa stats just out, BFS is running neck and neck with BHD on LGW route. Not bad with up to five flights compared to EI and BEE combined seven? Also canaries up compared to this time last year and another good month for UA to EWR

[EI-BUD]

Gazmo

Many days EI only had 2 LGW rotations and many BE services were on dash so LGW not a bad month by the sounds of it!

[True Blue]

Yes but never forget BHD is the airport of choice for the majority with the higher yields, apparently!

TB

[BFS BHD]

Anyone no when we will hear from the new owners on what they are going to do with airport like new stands etc? (Need to fill the ones that are empty first :hmm: )

Any rumors on new airlines for next summer or winter or any new routes with current airlines?

[_IRL_Flyer]

Aegean Airlines will be operating BFS-HER for Olympic Holidays next Summer in addition to RHO.

BFS - Rhodes resumes on the 14 June 2014 & BFS- Heraklion starts on the 20 June 2014. :)

[BFS BHD]

Good news for BFS!

Times are (Based on 1st/2nd week of August):

Belfast Heraklion Airport 01-Aug-2014 13:45 20:15 Aegean (A)Aegean A34211
Heraklion Airport Belfast 08-Aug-2014 10:10 13:00 Aegean (A)Aegean A34210

Belfast Rhodes Airport 02-Aug-2014 21:30 04:00 Aegean (A)Aegean A34333
Rhodes Airport Belfast 09-Aug-2014 17:45 20:45 Aegean (A)Aegean A34332

[All names taken]

Just a question for the local guys.
Other than EZY, who are the other regular year round operators at BFS these days? And what percentage of passengers are non-GB?

I suspect the squeeze will get worse as DUB is really turning into Ireland International.
Road links from Belfast and the North in general are now pretty good with DUB being on the North side of the city, just off the motorway heading north.
I did this drive in 1hr 20 mins in a hire car not too long ago and a very pleasant drive too. By comparison I remember a few years ago driving from Southwark to Heathrow and it took a stress inducing 1hr 10 mins!!

So cup half empty = the Belfast Airports won't grow much
Cup half full = you're one and a half hours away from an increasingly important international airport that can get you most places you want to go.

[GAZMO]

Apart from EZY LS have two aircraft based at BFS. Most of their operations are summer seasonal and a couple of winter seasonal. ACE TFS and Alc are all year though ALC not on schedule for W14?

TCX operate all year, one aircraft and TOM one aircraft summer seasonal. UA operate to EWR

Agree unless new owners start something new then more pax will head south to DUB

[owenc]

What about those of us who live to the North and West of Belfast? Dublin around is 150 miles and 3 hours from my house. It is hardly a worthwhile drive unless flying to Dubai or North America.

[BFS101]

And when some think 19 miles from Belfast City Centre to BFS is inconvenient and 'out of the way', then by the same logic 100 miles to DUB must seem like a holiday in itself.... Oh, maybe because its all dual carriageway, that makes it okay.

Though of course double standards can be particularly evident, when a few £££ can be saved.

The hub that DUB is / becoming, will serve as the main gateway to Ireland, however that's not to say that further routes from the more regional airports cannot be sustainable. Though as owenc said, when travelling long-haul, DUB certainly becomes an attractive option.

At the end of the day, each to their own. Many will pay for convenience, many will put themselves out to save a few quid.

[GAZMO]

Have to agree with Owenc that for those up north DUB is a bit of a pain. When flying to USA I always use UA service and to Far East normally LHR.

Having using DUB a few times it's not flying out it's the long drive home after a long flight back

[EI-A330-300]

The main problem with airports outside of Dublin is they were/are always very dependent on outbound passengers and the main cuts to air services have being dropping IT fights, scheduled airlines switching from city to holiday flights to remain profitable while UK and the previous Irish tax has caused a slump in demand between UK and Ireland. The typical city breaks have reduced while eastern Europe market was always going to decline when things started to change.

When you look back, what has caused the decline in passenger numbers, airports have not lost a lot of valuable routes its just bucket and spade routes. Yes there is Ei moving over the road but aside from that nothing major has changed.


Domestic demand will need to pick up before regional airports bounce back.

[GAZMO]

Does anyone know anything about LS flight to gdansk tomorrow?

[BFS BHD]

With only a few days left of 2013, I was just wondering what you think could happen in 2014 with the airport with these new owners in?

Would there be a new Master plan released by ADC & HAS?

Merry Christmas everyone and have a Happy New Year!

[ILS25]

John Doran was interviewed on radio ulster the other day and stated there would be big announcements 2014.

On another note well done everyone who stayed/came in to keep the airport open Dec 25th for the medical flights. Happy christmas everyone.

[GAZMO]

Will be interesting to see what will be announced.

I still think EZY could increase services to STN since SEN is ending and BE ending LGW
Would love to see a few more key European cities and Toronto

Best wishes to call posters on this thread

[BFS Dude]

Hello new here!

Was looking at easyjets website and saw that Munich (MUC) & Verona (VRN) where on the drop down list for BFS is this a mistake or are they announcing them tomorrow or this week sometime?

Thanks!

[tigger2k8]

They are charter flights that normally do not appear on the easyjet website.

[BFS Dude]

Thanks for that!

Happy New Year!

[eastern wiseguy]

BFS ( Belfast International Airport) Runway - YouTube


All this and the G8 ....happy days

[BFS BHD]

Nice Video!

Anyone hear any rumors on new routes/airlines at BFS for 2014?

[BHD2BFS]

Does anyone know if the thomson aircraft based this summer will be a sun wing aircraft or thomson?

[BFS BHD]

Most likely Sunwing.

[Danmadole]

Interesting video. However, to say the runway resurface was undertaken without any disruption to services is stretching it a bit! Have they forgotten the Jet2 debacle when their ops were moved to BHD and LDY?

[Torque2]

The Jet2 decision to move was entirely their own,no other operator was affected so basically there was no debacle.

[Jack1985]

To me that whole Jet2 thing seemed like someone at there ops with a high ego thought the 20+ year aircraft under his belt were suffering a bit, wonder if its the age has anything to do with that - Even though maintenance can keep these birds flying for a few more years yet.

I don't remember Europe's second largest LCC complaining.

[BFS BHD]

Could we see Easyjet add more flights to Paris CDG since Flybe is cutting the routes on the 19th of this month?

[GAZMO]

BEE flew 20K pax last year on the EXE to CDG route so there may be an opportunity for one or two extra flights until the start of the summer season.

However CDG route appears to be very flat so EZY may have sufficient slack to accommodate these pax

[EI-BUD]

And the last London Southend flight is just about to get away. Shame to see the loss of another route. Given the withdrawal of BE on LGW and removal of this flight, I'd expect to see increase in BFS LGW by at least one a day quite soon ... And potentially STN

[GAZMO]

Would agree EI BUD London could easily cope with an EZY extra daily flight to either STn or LGW

[BFS BHD]

Jet2.com will operate a one of flight to Reykjavik on 19 Apr 2014 for Travel-Solutions.

From Belfast – depart at 8.00am and arrive at 9.30am
From Keflavik – depart at 7.30pm and arrive at 11.10pm
(2 Nights)

Exlusive charter to Iceland from Belfast - Belfast International Airport (http://www.belfastairport.com/en/news/8/302/exlusive-charter-to-iceland-from-belfast.html)

[BFS BHD]

Any idea why Alicante is off sale to 14th Feb 2014 for Jet2?

[GAZMO]

Probably low numbers and therefore low yield!,,,!!

[El Bunto]

Jet2 Royal Mail flights to / from Stansted started last night using EXS002_ callsigns.

G-CELZ was the culprit, seems to be based as of yesterday.

Bye-bye Titan.

[GAZMO]

Anybody know about K2 7803 Rzeszow 18:00 coming in later today

[BFS BHD]

EuroLot Dash-8 SP-EQI don't no why its coming in but :)

[BFS BHD]

Just looking on flythomascook.com.

Las Palmas= 1 Weekly (Mondays, Few weeks there is none)
Dates available are:

3rd, 10th, 17th & 24th Nov 2014
22nd & 29th Dec 2014
5th Jan 2015
16th & 23rd Feb 2015
2nd, 9th, 16th, 23rd & 30th Mar 2015
6th, 13th, 20th & 27th Apr 2015

Enfidha= 1 weekly on Sundays (No flights in Dec, Jan and most of Feb)

2nd, 9th & 16th Nov 2014
22nd Feb 2015
1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd & 29th March 2015
19th & 26th April 2015

Lanzarote= Up to 2 Weekly (Thursday & Sunday)

Tenerife= 3 Weekly (Tueday, Friday & Saturday)

No flights again on Wednesdays :)

[BFS BHD]

Looking on twitter and saw on Ryanairs page that MoL was on today for an hour and someone asked him:

Any hope for @Ryanair to fly from belfast again? #askryanair

He said:

Hope so. We are talking to both airports but no spare aircraft until end of 2014 #AskRyanair

So hopefully in 2015 we may see RYR back in Belfast at BHD or BFS! :ok:

[SecondDog]

Looking on twitter and saw on Ryanairs page that MoL was on today for an hour and someone asked him:

Quote:
Any hope for @Ryanair to fly from belfast again? #askryanair
He said:

Quote:
Hope so. We are talking to both airports but no spare aircraft until end of 2014 #AskRyanair
So hopefully in 2015 we may see RYR back in Belfast at BHD or BFS! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

No way it is BHD unless they get their runway sorted and that ain't happening in 14

As for BFS, I think it is unlikely (although I'm sure it could only be a good thing if done right)

[AIRPORT66]

Yes you are probably right but to date have the management at Bfs done anything right.

[GAZMO]

Just looking at the released caa stats for December and EZY service to LGW is greater than the combined EI and BEE service from BHD

I think this is the first time the number on LGW have been greater since EI moved to BHD

Is it getting late for any new route announcements for summer 14 ?

[stab3.5up]

Will the thomas cook news re pulling out of ireland impacr on BFS?

[GAZMO]

Since TCX have just released their winter 14/15 programme I don't think it will impact on BFS.
I think the load factors are quite good out of BFS

[BFS BHD]

Could we see a BFS-CUN route now that TCX isn't doing it from DUB?

[GAZMO]

Probably the same chance as seeing YYZ, DUBAI, MAD, LIS, FCO.......

[BHD2BFS]

Well they have invested in putting a brand new aircraft at BFS so maybe the idea is to bring these routes to belfast where there is less competition than dub

[GAZMO]

Good point BHD2BFS

[GAZMO]

Anyone know about following flight tomorrow for BHX
OV 8705 Birmingham 10:00
Is it for the ulster rugby team?

[BFS BHD]

Looks like ''OV'' is Estonian Air based in Tallinn Airport could be a Bombardier CRJ900 or Embraer E-170!


Edit: ES-AEA E-170 is over Scotland now inbound to BFS!

[Mlinnie]

Will Easyjet be basing an A320 for the peak summer months this year?

[j636]

They will have the 320 for peak.

[GAZMO]

Have noticed EZY are actually selling flights to VRN for tomorrow? I thought that these flights were charter only

[BFS Dude]

Does anyone no if there is any flights to Madeira for this summer? Thanks

[BFS BHD]

Any rumors of new airlines or routes at BFS?

[GAZMO]

its a question we would all like an answer to. Its getting very late for any new routes for this summer. As I previously posted LON can cope with an extra daily flight (with ending of BE to LGW and EZY to SEN). There are always been a lot of hot air coming from BFS, last year with the big 50th anniversary .......very little and so far this year the same. Maybe I will wake up some day and there will be some good news on route development

[True Blue]

I see Easyjet has changed the Luton schedule from the start of the summer timetable so that flights are operated by Luton based aircraft.

[GAZMO]

Wonder what the BFS based aircraft will be operating instead of LTN

[GAZMO]

Diversions from DUB today. Anyone know reason?

[Jack1985]

Diversions from DUB today. Anyone know reason?

Weather, operations at Cork, Dublin, Knock in tatters.

[BFS BHD]

Diverts into BFS:

EI-RJZ Cityjet (Ended up Squawking 7700)

EI-DWO Ryanair
EI-DWT Ryanair

EI-DEA Aer Lingus
EI-DVM Aer Lingus (Retro)
EI-DEN Aer Lingus

BHD got two:

EI-FAT Aer Lingus Regional
EI-FAV Aer Lingus Regional

Edit: Another for BFS- EI-DYY Ryanair

[BFS Dude]

TOM will be using ABR for two flights in July just for the peak season:

Outbound: ABR 419J Tue 08 Jul 14 19:00 22:40

Inbound: ABR 420J Tue 15 Jul 14 16:35 18:10

--------------------

Outbound: ABR 419J Tue 15 Jul 14 19:00 22:40

Inbound: ABR 420J Tue 22 Jul 14 16:35 18:10

[GAZMO]

I notice somebody doing silly things on the wiki BFS page

Probably someone's wish list

[BFS BHD]

Onur air will now be doing a few flights to Dalaman on Wednesdays:

DLM-BFS- 0500-0800
BFS-DLM- 0900-1550

Not sure if the aircraft types will be A320s or A321s.

Flights operate from 2nd July-16th July.

----------------------------------------------

More from Onur Air!

This time Bodrum:

BJV-BFS- 0500-0750
BFS-BJV- 0850-1530

Flights operate 27th June-11th July

Updated: 10/02/2014

[BFS BHD]

Jet2.com B738 G-GDFD due into BFS soon took off from Leeds 5 mins ago due to operate EXS309 to Lanzarote tomorrow morning.

[El Bunto]

Tower and approach services will be combined onto the approach frequency daily from midnight to 05:00.

[BFS BHD]

Been like that for a good few months now. :)

[BFS BHD]

Three news story's in Belfast Telegraph about Rail links and Long haul flights at BFS to Toronto and Abu Dhabi:

Fears over future of Belfast International Airport as long-haul plans to Toronto and Abu Dhabi stall - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/fears-over-future-of-belfast-international-airport-as-longhaul-plans-to-toronto-and-abu-dhabi-stall-29994635.html)

Lack of Canada route and no rail link to Belfast International Airport 'hurting our economy' - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/lack-of-canada-route-and-no-rail-link-to-belfast-international-airport-hurting-our-economy-29994637.html)

Belfast International Airport needs to look again at its offering as Dublin soars ahead - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/opinion/john-simpson/belfast-international-airport-needs-to-look-again-at-its-offering-as-dublin-soars-ahead-29994638.html)

[stab3.5up]

Good news day for belfast then. Looks good for the 50th celebrations

[EI-A330-300]

Well the BT should get an award for most diatomic headlines.

An airport that is still making a profit believes future is at risk, think the journalists need to look closer to home as BHD didn't have a fall in passenger numbers, in fact it soared like Dublin. Having x or y routes will not secure the airports "future" but at least they got the regional airports in Ireland market sport on.

[ILS25]

The editors at the the Belfast Telegraph don't just wake up in the morning and decide to do 3 seperate stories on BIA. It's an obvious cry for help from an airport with no obvious future expansion or investment if it continues as it has for the past five years.

[BCALBOY]

Does Dublin Airport have a rail link ?

[All names taken]

Quote: It's a disgrace that we're not getting an air link with Canada.

Well I've heard it all now.
One of NI's many problems is that those in charge are not familiar with the real world; still believing that a diatribe of Paisley style bombast and outrage will win the day. To the outside world it comes across as a spoiled child stamping its feet till it gets its way. All the moaning and political slagging actually is a deterrent to inward business.

The reality is that Belfast is a pretty small city in the scheme of things. With 2 airports. The entire population of NI is what 1.7m or so. That's about the size of a small to middling English county.
Is it a disgrace that all those counties don't have an air link with Canada?
No because there are other airports that do, and you just travel to them.

Celebrate the fact that Dublin is doing so well and that the road links from the North (and Dublin is conveniently on the northside of Dublin) have improved immeasurably in recent years. Dublin's success can and should be good for the north too.

[El Bunto]

Does Dublin Airport have a rail link ?Indeed, a failing that 45 - 60 minutes to the journey to Dublin airport by the time one decamps at Connolly, tramps out, dodges the LUAS and waits for the bus.

A DART rail service to the airport has been studied on many occasions, would cost arond EUR100 million.

But so long as Dublin airport has an island monopoly on services people need to use, their attitude is why spend money when the pax are going to come anyway? Not a good role model for BIA, an airport that needs to attract passengers by all means possible.

[EI-BUD]

Quite a difference is distance to their respective city centres, i.e. DUB and BFS ...

[EI-A330-300]

El Bunto

Nobody including the media are talking about the real elephant in the room and that a small airfield in the city......that's the heart of the problem for BFS and its "future" as people like to say and not DUB!


A little village compared to European standards has 2 airports yet places like AMS, MUC, FRA all have one.

[stab3.5up]

Not according to mol!

[Skipness One Echo]

Oh and by the way the population of Northern Ireland at 1.8 million is 5th largest county in England not smallest.
And what about Shannon having all the transatlantic flights it has? Surely if a wee town like that can have links then a country can have more?
Northen Ireland has never been a "country" anymore than Wales ever was. With the Belfast market segmented between easyJet/Jet2 and everyone else at BHD. Hardly ideal.
The absolute best BFS would get might be a weekly TS A330 or similar but competing with Air Canada Rouge and Aer Lingus at nearby Dublin or a one stop connection out of BHD over LHR, all at much greater frequency.

Not sure how they grow either airport, one's remote and the other's physically constrained.

[BFS BHD]

Yet another news report from Belfast Telegraph!

Southern comforts make Dublin Airport easier for passengers than Belfast - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/southern-comforts-make-dublin-airport-easier-for-passengers-than-belfast-29994639.html)

Have they nothing better to do? :ugh:

[stab3.5up]

Ok stop right now. Dont even start a deabate about ulster,the 6 counties,ni, the occupied terrortories please.

[tigger2k8]

More unsettling news for BFS/BHD.. lets hope something is sorted for them

Private jet firm for the stars in talks over its future - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/private-jet-firm-for-the-stars-in-talks-over-its-future-29997216.html)

[Droghwings]

I think the problem of declining traffic and difficulty in attracting new airlines/routes at BFS is not unlike the problems currently being experienced at Cork. Until recently Cork was a long and difficult drive from Dublin, now with a new motorway link this is no longer the case. Its now a 2.5 hour drive where as in the past it could be anything up to 5 hours depending on the time of day etc. As a result Cork was very much the local airport for the people of Munster. Now this is no longer the case, with Dublin Airport being an easy bus or car ride from almost anywhere in Munster...(Kerry and West Cork being the exceptions),Dublin Airport which has always had a much larger range of routes and airlines is now the airport of choice for many. Galway Airport which once had 5 daily flights to Dublin and several routes to the UK and seasonal routes to the Continent is now closed due to the opening of a motorway to Dublin. Its raison d'etre ceased to exist.
For Belfast the problems are very similar, its even closer to Dublin Airport than Cork. I dont think Belfast as a city can attract longhaul routes similar to those at Dublin. That said, Belfast should be able to sustain a much better network of routes to Continental Europe than currently exists. Besides Amsterdam and Paris, most routes from Belfast are for the bucket and spade brigade. However, routes to important population and economic centres such as Frankfurt, Milan and Brussels etc should be sustainable in the medium term.
As to whether Belfast can support 2 airports?...I would think the answer to that is definetly not. A cold hard look at aviation policy in NI needs to be taken at Stormont. Something has got to give. In my opinion its going to have to be BHD. There is no room for expansion, it has night time restrictions and the runway cannot be extended. If the 2 airport policy continues, neither will thrive and may ultimately lead to the demise in the longer term of both and then everybody will have to trek to Dublin....I'm sure I'm going to upset all of those BHD supporters. But maybe its time to think bout the future of the city of Belfast and what is best for it.

[GAZMO]

Drogwings

I like your logical thought. Hope the MLAs up at Stormont are reading this

[EI-BUD]

Droghwings,

You make a lot of sense and the parallels with the Cork scenario ring through.
However, while 1 airport for Belfast makes sense, and I agree a coherent aviation strategy is needed, both airports have massive price tags over their heads. The only way to move to 1 would be a merger.

This topic was the subject of fierce debate on this thread for some time and there prevailed distinct groups for and against each airport.

I suggest that having easyJet up at BFS offers a certain level of protection for carriers at BHD namely EI and BE. We can be sure if all operated from the same airport , EI wouldn't have stuck out on LGW and BE wouldn't be serving many of their domestic routes except for thinner ones like CWL ABZ INV SOU LBA and EMA.

This is if course hypothetical and nothing much will change. It seems that this limit of ops at BHD will keep EZY where it is and Jet2 due to its Canary Island routes will also stay put. Yes EasyJet did try BHD but I view their assessment of BHD as flawed !!!

[ILS25]

Quote from Ali Gayward "Moving to Belfast City Airport was always a trial, but in over a year we have seen no tangible benefits."

I would hardly describe the above as a flawed assessment. In fairness though if BIA were running things right I don't think easy would have moved down to the city in the first place.

[BHD2BFS]

I know it will never happen but apart from it's cargo flights, what would stop jet2 moving to BHD in the future (again I know if will probably never happen) I know they have used airbus in the past and if the ever did bring in a319 or a320 I believe they could operate their network from BHD,
Also although the airport does close at 9:30 what stops airlines leaving at 9:30 and arrive back 6am when the airport opens, after doing a canaries route?

[GAZMO]

REUS, IBZ, ACE, TFS and one of the ALC plus cargo all arrive after 9.30pm. The airline promotes its friendly flight times so unless they want to change that!!

Also on time performance not as good as other airlines so would have to pay a penalty if arriving after 9.30pm at BHD

[EI-BUD]

Quote from Ali Gayward "Moving to Belfast City Airport was always a trial, but in over a year we have seen no tangible benefits."

I would hardly describe the above as a flawed assessment. In fairness though if BIA were running things right I don't think easy would have moved down to the city in the first place.



ILS25;
I completely respect your acceptance of easyJets assessment. However, if all things had been equal, ie there were no significant changes in the market the same period in the year before etc, it would be easy to call . When easyJet moved their LTN route to BHD a lot of things were at play;
1. AerLingus had recently arrived at BFS with a LHR route
2. Ryanair had recently arrived at BHD with a STN route, carrying 30k pax per month at fares as low as £1 each way all in
3. Recession was making for toughest winter period flying we had seen for some time

Hence, without understanding how they arrived at their assessment we can only speculate . Maintaining passenger numbers and achieving the same revenue and yield may not suggest that there were no tangible benefits . To achieve that would be spectacular at that time .

I'm not suggesting that BHD was a better option for easyJet as clearly there are limiting factors that yield the airport unattractive namely restrictive opening hours, but I simply am not convinced that the results of the BHD experiment were conclusive....

[panpanpanpan]

Please don`t start the whole "only one NI airport" debate again.:ugh: If I remember the debate stalled because one commercial enterprise is required to be forced to close so another commercial enterprise can then try and be successful. utter tosh and madness!:confused:

The bottom line is that Dublin airport is now very convenient to get to, whether by car or using public transport from Northern Ireland. We all live in a free market where we all have choices to travel from wherever is most convenient/cheapest for us, get used to it.:ok:

If Aldergrove think they could ever pose a real threat to Dublin they are in cuckoo land.

[El Bunto]

Is Dublin airport really 'easy' to reach from NI? For anyone not in the centre of Belfast it's a mess of bus and / or rail interchanges that adds six hours to a round trip.

People go to Dublin because they don't have a choice from Belfast, not because they enjoy sitting on a coach for 2.5 hours without a toilet.

Aldergrove should be aiming to capture that market.

[True Blue]

There it is. We should all just use Dublin and be thankful. What do we need an airport for anyway?


TB

[panpanpanpan]

TB - thats a bit negative, even from you!;)

I still think it is somewhat ironic that City has progressed from a tin hut and a few twin otters to where it is now. Aldergrove has been going downhill and gathering speed, does this mean that City should be now told enough is enough and stop competing? When you think about it logically its crazy, I run a small business but I cant demand that no-one else produces the same product as me because it might hurt my future. I would be laughed at by any potential competitors if I came out with that line.:=

Dublin is relatively easy to get to now compared to years ago, that point is undeniable.

[EI-BUD]

True Blue,

You pose an interesting perspective . We could see that DUB is a useful convenience for us.

My view is that DUB's advertising in NI has next to zero influence in the travelling publics behaviour. Due to the availability of routes from DUB NI customers will use these anyway.


EI-BUD

[BFS BHD]

I see Jet2 has 3 departures in the morning:

LS 0381 Tenerife 08:30
LS 0301 Alicante 09:00
LS 0309 Lanzarote 09:15

Will the B738 be back to do Lanzarote?

[DQ4]

Do Titan still do mail flights out of BFS or have all these transferred to Jet2?

[BFS BHD]

Titans gone Jet2 now have 3 based aircrafts at BFS one for Cargo only to Stansted (G-CELZ)

[SecondDog]

The bottom line is that Dublin airport is now very convenient to get to, whether by car or using public transport from Northern Ireland. We all live in a free market where we all have choices to travel from wherever is most convenient/cheapest for us, get used to it.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

The infrastructure is there but that doesn't mean it is convenient, people always seem to focus on it being easy to get to Dublin for the outbound leg of the flight. Anyone I speak to makes a point of saying it is a real pain, especially on the return leg of the journey to land and collect baggage then have in excess of 2 hrs to travel home. Also if you are travelling on one of the early morning flights from DUB and it takes min 2 hrs to get there, I think those people could be won back to Belfast rather than leaving at silly o'clock or travelling down to a hotel the night before.

If Aldergrove think they could ever pose a real threat to Dublin they are in cuckoo land.

I only partly agree with this, DUB surely is far in advance of what Aldergrove has to offer. But, the gap in provision should not be as wide as it is. Everyone seems to be under the impression that DUB has some sort of right to be the dominant force for aviation for the island of Ireland. BFS has every right to try to compete with them. The problem is that they didn't attempt to compete for such a long time that Dublin has managed to widen the gap considerably, with investment in their infrastructure (helps when the state has an interest as opposed to not coming up with a coherent aviation strategy). Now trying to close the gap is all but impossible, more so whilst we have the Harbour running at a loss/cost just to stay alive. In doing so they just stagnate the aviation market further. Not to mention the more aviation friendly policies held by the Irish as opposed to the UK Government.

People on here seem to have a very clear idea in their minds that things should just continue in a fashion because 'thats just how it has been done for ages' etc

In my opinion, there is no alternative for aviation in Northern Ireland than to merge BFS/BHD services (at Aldergrove) and improve the transport infrastructure to that airport, so that they can stop the pesky stealing of services in their own backyard (only airlines profit from this) and concentrate on focusing on the routes/ services they provide to try to improve their market share against Dublin.

[bongoo]

And off we go again with the one airport for NI nonsense :zzz:

[carsonEGAD]

People go to Dublin because they don't have a choice from Belfast, not because they enjoy sitting on a coach for 2.5 hours without a toilet.

And the fact that if you're flying from Dublin to say Heathrow, then onwards to Heathrow, it's much cheaper than flying from Belfast due to the much cheaper taxes.
Eg. last year when I went to Hong Kong in March, BA were charging ~£800 from BHD-LHR-HKG while DUB-LHR-HKG was ~£500 and I imagine a lot of people would like to save ~£300!

[justmaybe]

The argument has become almost tautological. Leaving City of Derry airport out of the equation, the strategic or competitive advantage of having two airports within a twenty mile radius to serve a population of 1.5+mil is highly questionable. On the one side BHD has blossomed to the detriment of BFS, and that is probably, on the public face at least, because of a lack of strategic direction, imagination and vision by the local management at BFS; whether that was influenced by forces brought to bear by the previous Spanish owners is speculative, but with the change of ownership there now a real opportunity going forward to see what can be achieved.
The proposals announced today to enhance the Belfast-Dublin rail link does little to add to the fortunes of BFS. Two Belfast airports are not sustainable, and the competition argument is equally tenuous. Since NI is so fond of Inquiries, here is an issue that is well worthy of further investigation

[EI-BUD]

Just maybe .

Your point of sustainability is spot on, at the core of the problem, the two airports are not sustainable in the long term. The level of capital investment required over long term is staggering.

The debate is most futile upon reflection. BHD can't be the only Belfast airport as it even with runway extension and increased opening hours cannot facilitate the scale required , cargo etc.

EI BUD

[panpanpanpan]

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Here we go again! Last time i checked we didn't live in a communist state therefore no-one has the right to close one privately owned business to let another privately run business succeed


It never ceases to amaze me that this concept is beyond rational thinking

[Una Due Tfc]

Are BHD and BFS both profitable? Apologies for my ignorance but I'm not an Ulsterman. If they are then fair dues, 2 private companies making a profit is not to be sniffed at.

Reading those telegraph articles, what struck me was that 2 profitable (if they are profitable) airports offering European bucket and spade routes and Hubs certainly have a future in Belfast, but will not be able to compete with DUB on long haul.

[BFS BHD]

I see easyJet carried more PAX on the Birmingham than Flybe in January!

EasyJet: 15464 (BFS)
Flybe: 15039 (BHD)

:ok:

[EI-BUD]

Panpanpanpan

I find it ironic how you comments say things like lets not start the debate again, etc. yet on the back of such comments you get you twopence worth in on the subject, so in effect starting the debate again ...

You are a dedicated supporter of BHD, I remember this when I see posts from you. your arguments lack any statraregic thinking, the debate has been about sustainability , I fly from both airports mostly BHD of late and I admit I prefer the airport in most aspects, but the issue is sadly that there might be big investors standing behind both airports but say 10 years from now we will see if the investment each one needs in forthcoming and I fear we will end up with 2 airports like PIK .. An example of an airport that has seen little investment due to declining revenue.

The future is mapped out as both airports are marginally profitable and significant investment has been made, hence not simply a case of closing one of the other.

In the mean time beyond where the public eye can see the airlines will continue to squeeze the airports for the lowest possible costs and the airports agreeing to marginal fees to maintain business. This is also not sustainable and is the cause and effect of having 2 airports serving a city with a small population.

Though Belfast is my home / neighbourhood , I'm not participating in this debate any further.

[larry the man]

UDF The BHD owner's accounts show that they're in the can for a couple of hundred mil debt. I believe the airport being the only asset on the books registered a loss last year, so little hope of improving this black situation by trading out. So need to sell for as much dosh as can be mustered.

In the meantime the necessity to string things out until a sale can be achieved has led to desperate and ridiculous deals to get business in (FR, bmib, EI...) to keep the good ship lollipop appearance, all taking from and dragging performance at BFS towards the mire. In this situation it's simply a race to the bottom. Allowing for Dublin focus, support, headstart, awareness level etc etc this nonsense just makes matters even simpler for them. It's not even relevant to talk about competition with Dublin anymore. It should be, but that ship has probably sailed.

Meantime the man in the street looks at things at face value and thinks this desperate 'competition' is great and that everything re flying should naturally be foc.

Those 'responsible' for shaping the base of the economy can't do anything because it's 2 private companies (yawn yawn) which might well be a little short-sighted because when the bottom is reached if there is no viable means of reaching out and drawing in visitors and investors from the big bad world outside it will be mightily challenging to achieve economic targets for real external tourist numbers over the next few years. But hey-ho if that happens, trouble on the streets and London will make up the shortfall.........or maybe not??? :yuk:

[GAZMO]

.......and good figures on LGW

BFS 28942
BHD 26240

[panpanpanpan]

Bud - I am a dedicated supporter of business being left to find its own level without interference from outsiders dictating who should sell what etc. If a business is unprofitable and unsustainable then it will fail, that will then leave a clearer path forward. Until that happens then speculation and pontificating from a moral high ground is pointless.

I am also a dedicated supporter of competition, trying to stifle one market to artificially attempt to revive another is foolhardy at best. In the last few years I have used Harbour, Aldergrove and Dublin because of price, convenience and choice available. Long may this continue.

Larry - I wouldn`t put too much play on a companies financial reports, these companies pay accountants to use as many loopholes and clauses as possible to reduce taxes and fees due, if I recall Harbour had large amounts of "inter company loans" to repay which reduced profits to almost zero.:suspect:

If Aldergrove has a better product to offer pax/airlines then Harbour will suffer and ultimately fail but I doubt this is imminent. Aldergrove have been reactionary to competition for the last several years, they have objected at every turn to seats for sale at Harbour, objected to runway extension at Harbour and sponsored the "local concerned residents", all in an attempt to undermine a competitor. If only they had applied the same effort to fixing their own problems instead of thinking that they should be some sort of priority case for aviation than things might be different.:=

[EI-BUD]

Thank you panpanpanpan,
Firstly I'm not on the moral high ground. If it seems that way I apologise.

I am a supporter of free competition too. The market will adjust and find its place over time.

I agree BFS needs an improved facility but with limited ability to charge rates to its airline that can see adequate investment this shows the impact of this leverage that airlines have in this very competitive environment.

Easyjet it a deterrent to airlines going to BFS, with any competing seeks out a point of difference ie BHD , Jet2 is significantly differentiated to withstand EZY competition ex BFS. Moreover, I can see BFS luring FR through sheer desparation to grow traffic for the new owners ... This could put a whole different spin on things.

[BFS BHD]

Did anyone see the Air Berlin A330 D-ALPE that diverted into BFS this morning?

Doing Dusseldorf - Fort Myers landed around 10:15 this morning and went around 11:30 to Fort Myers.

[BFS Dude]

Anyone hear about a airline starting a new route to Canada from BFS? :)

[stab3.5up]

The west of what?

[BFS Dude]

Sorry wasn't clear on that now fixed above ^

[stab3.5up]

Ah is in Canada...no in a word but a little late in the year for anyone to launch as many folks already booked other means of getting to Canada but good luck to Citywings when they start.

[BFS BHD]

but good luck to Citywings when they start.

Start at BFS? :confused:

[stab3.5up]

Yes transatlantic flights from bfs. Well no one else seems interested in bfs anymore

[carsonEGAD]

From another forum I hear it is EI, although how accurate the rumour is I do not know.

[EI-A330-300]

EI have set out there Long Haul plans so it won't be them.

Where is to to anyway?

[EI-BUD]

Could Westjet do BHD- St. John - Toronto on 737-7?
Coming east would be fine, but the distance outbound nonstop probably a stretch, Brian Ambrose said in a recent interview in hospitality mag that new routes were on the agenda for this year including North America ... Would wonder, maybe trying to shake the trees opposite the rivals!

[Una Due Tfc]

If Westjet can do YYT-DUB then there's no reason they couldn't do BFS. They sold all the DUB seats in 4 hours apparently! There was speculation on the Cork forum a while back that a service would be launched there

[eastern wiseguy]

Dublin declared distances


RWY Designator TORA
TODA
ASDA
LDA


10.
2637 M TORA
2850 M TODA
2728 M ASDA
2637 M LDA

28
2637 M TORA
2850 M TODA
2693 M ASDA
2637 M LDA

16
2072 M AS ABOVE
2255 M
2072 M
2072 M

34
2072 M AS ABOVE
2133 M
2072 M
2072 M


EGAC/BHD

04.
1829. AS ABOVE
2029
1829
1737



22.
1767 AS ABOVE
1917
1767
1767


There is a considerable difference between the runway dimensions at DUB and BHD. Could anyone QUALIFIED be able to say if a WESTJET operation could depart westbound on a summer day with a full load without a tech stop?

[BHD2BFS]

I very much doubt they would launch flights from BHD
I also doubt they will appear in BFS very soon either ( I hope I'm wrong)
But why launch a route from DUB who now has several carriers to Canada rather than BFS who has no one and keep blabbering on that a Canadian route is viable especially when it's only a 737-700
Again I feel another missed opportunity by BFS

[Una Due Tfc]

A B752 can get to EWR out of BFS, didn't there used to be direct links to YYZ? If a 752 can do a longer leg without restrictions, a 737-700 to YYT would be no problem!

Ahhh you are in the wrong forum Eastern. This is BFS/EGAA. BHD/EGAC is another forum

[eastern wiseguy]

Una

Two points

First

The runway at BFS runway 25 is 2780 TORA with a TODA of 3179 considerably longer than anything at BHD . That accounts for the direct EWR :ugh:

Second

My query was in response to the suggestion that WESTJET could run a service from BHD DIRECT to Canada. That suggestion was made on THIS thread by EI-BUD.

[Una Due Tfc]

Ah, my mistake, I misread EI-BUD's post, made the assumption he was talking about BFS (what is it they say about assumption again....)

Yeah I know EGAA has EWR, I thought that's what we were talking about. Getting back in my box

[EI-BUD]

But why launch a route from DUB who now has several carriers to Canada rather than BFS

This is a good question, I guess it is a good way to test the Atlantic route, a new type of operation and given the presence of AirCanada, being a full service carrier and AerLingus in the similar space for long haul , competing with these will allow WestJet to see in quite a measurable way how their model performs in what could be described as a crowded market place. This clearly is a test bed for them. I'd say they will assess the overall success if the venture and decide if this adds up, given all he costs that they might not always be used to such as staff overnighting. The impacts on peripheral things such as ancillary revenue, on board sales etc. in my view Dublin is a good market to try this in given proximity to North America.

I think that it is conceivable that BFS would be looked at if the assessment of such an operation proves fruitful ex DUB...

With DY doing long haul and Westjet testing the crossing of the pond, who knows perhaps a new breed of airline like Westjet may seek out opportunities on this island as it is reachable by 737!!! Let's hope as it's size may prove effective .

[owenc]

No its not a strech lol!

Its 2,000 miles to St Johns of course you could fly there direct.

Thompson fly further routes... I don't think people realise how close Canada is.

[canberra97]

owenc

I find it amazing how many people insist on adding a a P to THOMSON

It is a very recognisable brand name and yet it is regularly misspelt by amongst others aviation enthusiasts as well as journalists it has always been THOMSON.

Stansted is another one as it is often misspelt as STANSTEAD.

[BCALBOY]

And Qantas.....Quantas!

[carsonEGAD]

Add Qatar to that list..."Quatar":ugh:

[stab3.5up]

Are we wandering off thread here

[Hangar6]

Know wear not !

[owenc]

What has this actually got to do with new routes? :confused::confused::*

[ILS25]

There are no new routes. Thread is dead.

[panpanpanpan]

The thread is as dead as the airport!

[stab3.5up]

God rest her soul and all those that travelled through easyjet international

[BHD2BFS]

Just wondering what jet2 operations are like this summer,
Is it 2 flights in the morning and 2 in the afternoon everyday
So 2 aircraft for pax flights and 1 for cargo?

[Skipness One Echo]

It's not too far to Canada, it's a lot further to the major markets however.
I am not sure a single flight to Canada is worth fixating on, Air Transat have retrenched and Zoom have gone, the old visiting relatives market is dying off and so what's left is consolidated, in this case, at Dublin. I am not sure it's do-able anymore from BFS, even BHX only gets one a week and that's a much bigger market.

[stab3.5up]

Its not your airport its easyjets

[Skipness One Echo]

It appears that people from England and Dublin in particular enjoy coming in here and running down our airport.

The reality is that they know little about Northern Ireland and what our potential is.
You're not in a position to judge what I know about NI and and it's airports. I've traveled a lot, used both BFS and BHD, a little outside perspective is useful to counter the fluff about potential.I make my living in marketing and analysis and my bread and butter is working out what works, doesn't and how best to learn from it.
The potential is limited by a resurgent DUB, not actually a bad thing strategically unless you get in to localism and politics, that limited potential is further undermined by splitting the exisiting local market between two cut throat rivals. The result is a good City airport that can only serve local routes and a larger airport that can't attract enough traffic to invest. Square that circle, you can have a go at Dublin, until then, it's same old.

[stab3.5up]

I wonder if the dublin debate would happen if there was no border ? DUB is good at what it does as does BHD. I reallly believe that either BFS has lost its direction and is not sure of what market to go for or it is scared of EZY. I doubt we will ever know.

[EI-A330-300]

The 250,000 people from the North who use DUB would disagree with your point.....

Not to forget the thousands who use NOC to.

If only the N2 Dublin to Derry road had being completed before the downturn it would increase access to DUB even more.

[eastern wiseguy]

BFS dead......curiously making a profit

BHD thriving.........remind me how much they are making again?

DUBLIN comparing apples with bowling balls as far as BHD/BFS are concerned.

[bongoo]

Since when was Dublin Airport hundreds of miles away??
It takes me 45 minutes to get to Aldergrove from my North Down home, 1hr 45 to get to Dublin Airport, the road to Dublin is greatly superior to the dark lane that leads from Templepatrick onwards.
But don't upset the anoraks by daring to have a differing opinion..:8

[stab3.5up]

Its the anoraks that have made BFS the aviation hub it is today......

[Hangar6]

A whopping 521000 passengers from NI used Dublin in 2013 up 15pc on 2012
That's incredible when you consider there are 3 airports in the 6 counties , this has to make it very difficult to justify major investment in Aldergrove , shame but Once BA moved I believe the writing was on the wall.

I can recall loading Deloreans onto the EI B747 not so long ago ex BFS and the place was very busy , but BA moved I would be interested to hear what folks see as BFS future , given even Canada link seems out of reach

[owenc]

It's not really considering the three airports in Northern Ireland add up to about 7 million.

It would be interesting to see a map of that, I would bet that the majority of those passengers are from the South East of Northern Ireland.

They are probably basically closer to Dublin airport anyway. I can't see too many from Derry or Ballycastle travelling away down there for a flight to London now can I?

I am travelling out of there for the very first time this summer with United. I priced the flights from Belfast and it was an extra £500. :ugh::ugh: As it had US pre-clearance we just decided to have a compromise, I haven't been to Dublin in about 10 years so it will be interesting.

[True Blue]

Sorry to say, S1E has it right. Too many on this forum have obviously never studied economics. We are seeing the inpact of 3 airports for a very small country. You can argue all you like about competition, but sometimes competition is not so good in the long run. You see, in a capitalist ecenomy, profit is king. No profit, then why invest at all? But of course, you are not allowed to say 3 airports is complete stupidity, so I better not mention it.

TB

[Hangar6]

Well I don't see many on the LON route but your right it's a huge number as you say given half of the province is too far from Dublin, I would say its catastrophic for the future of BFS that so many of its customer base travel so far south , makes it's difficult to see why any need to invest in BFS , unless it's was bought
Back by the assembly , even then you would need BA back , but they just built a lounge in BHD , so it's a tough one

[EI-BUD]

Whether NI customers to this extent or not is a highly misleading indicator. All of those who live in south Down, Armagh, Fermanagh will find Dublin equidistant to Belfast so naturally they have a choice equally, a large amount of people from Louth, Monaghan, Cavan, Donegal and Leitrim will use Belfast, again they have a choice. Certainly NI customers flying to London from Dublin cannot be motivated by price, Belfast in my experience tends to be better priced.

And Hangar 'you don't see many on the London route', and prey do tell how you would recognise them! What do they look like?😄

[Una Due Tfc]

People are not going to bother driving down to Dublin for a London flight, and probably not for the bucket and spade trip to the Canaries or wherever, so they are safe. Long haul is hard to justify perhaps. I assume Air Transat, Air Canada, Delta, US Air, AA, United, Emirates, Etihad and Turkish all look at where their customers ex DUB are coming from (they do have addresses from bookings after all) and decide whether to launch an extra service out of BFS,ORK,SNN or wherever based on that. If there is a particularly large portion of those pax coming from Ulster for example, it doesn't necessarily mean they would launch a new service to that part of the Island, as instead of having one profitable route they may end up with 2 unprofitable ones after losing those pax from the original service. Then tie in things like cargo demands, pre-clearance for the US and things get complicated.

Both airports in Belfast are making money, sure there aren't the shiny widebodies for now, but people's jobs at those airports are safe, that's something to be very thankful for indeed

[stab3.5up]

BA and EI im sure dobt give a rats if a passenger uses BHD or DUB they are still getting that passengers money and the same goes with the BE code shares im sure. I think Joe Public is probably in a no win situation here. I think the issue is that norn iron folks just dont like change or anything different hence why the same old routes are plied from BFS/BHD. We did not support the 'odd' destinations that where offered to us. We are creatures of comfort. Would flights to the Gambia/Kenya/Goa etc work from Dublin let alone Belfast. I doubt it yet Man etc can support them. Our history has shown we cant tollerate change in this wee Island

[GAZMO]

With a new park and ride coming to Templepatrick, would anybody envisage passengers leaving their cars here for free and catching the bus to the airport?


BBC News - Ballymartin park and ride scheme gets the go-ahead (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-26401466)

[GAZMO]

Anybody know about arrival today from Rome


JN 1197Rome / Fiumicino

[BFS BHD]

Livingston Airlines A320 not sure why its here :)

[shoe shine]

Una Due, both airports are making money?

If you look at the accounts of both you'll find Aldergrove made a profit albeit somewhat less that it used to make. Belfast City made a loss and additionally is carrying a debt of almost £200m which it will never be able to recover.

[GAZMO]

Just about to book flight to England for a weekend, not much difference in price although airlines from BFS slightly cheaper but when it came to car park charges (got a 10% discount voucher) BHD is a rip off


BFS £13.04
BHD £31.50
without voucher
BFS£14.49
BHD £35.00


Could nearly get a flight to LPL for the difference

[carlrsymington]

If you don't mind parking your car on the street, choose BHD & park in the road on the far side of Sydenham halt, walk over the bridge, go through the gates & pick up the phone and they will send a people carrier to pick you up.
On return ask at reception for the lift to the train station. I've done it several times.
Alternatively, if you can go by train, same applies.

[josechung]

Well, I'll put my hands up and admit that 2 of the 20 return flights I took last year where from Dublin. The reason? Ryanair were the only airline to fly direct.

I'm a huge BFS supporter, fly from it whenever I can, but the problem is NI does not have many serious routes that aren't holiday destinations. Current airlines in BFS and (to a large part) BHD only think we are interested in beach holidays, and in fairness most NI travelers are happy with the stereo type.

We just need an airline to set up some high profile flights to Berlin etc and some eastern European cities and hopefully it will open the public's eyes a bit.

I'd also happily pay an extra £50 on an airfare to avoid the awful bus journey and fly from Belfast.

[Una Due Tfc]

So I've bern caught by the pro-BHD brigade, hook line and sinker have I? Well in that case ye are all f***** for as long as there is an airport in a great location with a tiny runway and an airport in a bad location with a decent runway. I'll get my coat......

[carlrsymington]

I am not pro either airport but I live in Holywood. I don't mind the aircraft traffic & for flights it is right on my doorstep. If I lived in Crumlin it would be just the same. I'd use BFS.

[eastern wiseguy]

Una

Both airports in Belfast are making money

No. As our BHD chums would say NO Belfast airport is making money. The one just outside Antrim however IS . BHD deck chairs ...titanic....rearranging as far as the books are concerned. And despite what our resident shopkeeper Panpanwhatever will say the people who WILL lose are the NI public as long as this short term gain is pursued.

As far as an answer is concerned . I certainly don't have one...but I no longer live in the area and don't have an axe to grind one way or the other any more.

Go CLE........unless PIT or CAK are cheaper :)

[owenc]

"Bhd" is a nightmare.

It is small, hours away, few flights and those flights that do exsist are super expensive.

[bluebayou]

As someone who prefers BFS, it is not a great "advertisement" for an international airport when today, after the arrival of the ezy flight from Gatwick, there is a period of 5 hours and 10 minutes when no scheduled flights are due to arrive. The next arrival is the ezy from Liverpool at 1510.

[True Blue]

I sometimes wonder if the travelling public are being hit here(NI) by airlines deliberately cutting back on capacity to drive up yields. I know they need to make a profit, but I just sense that we have too few airlines operating out of NI and they are getting to a point where they can exercise a lot of control. On Saturday 22nd Feb 3 of us travelled to a match in London. We flew out on Easyjet to Stn. However, returning that evening, apart from the fact that there are now very few flights out of London on a Saturday evening, the flights that were available were so expensive that we ended up flying back from Stn to Dub on Fr, bus to Belfast, taxi out to Bfs to pick up my car and we still saved several 10's of pounds. We also travel to Bodrum several times a year, with others. Go back say 5 years we had several flights a week to Bodrum ex Bfs, this summer one. So now we are flying either into or out of Dub or via an English airport. We can fly via say Lgw/Man/Bhx to Bodrum on a return basis for little more than a single out of Bfs. Sometimes I think we need a Ryanair or someone new on the scene here, it is getting too cosy for Ezy, Ba, Ei and Be. Between then , they seem to be getting too much pricing power.


TB

[carsonEGAD]

AF378 landed onto 25, diversion enroute from CDG-DTW, aircraft F-GLZU, A340.

[LAX_LHR]

Seems AF378 CDG-DTW F-GLZU A340-300 has landed at BFS. Cant be many A340's that have visited BFS?

[carsonEGAD]

A woman in labour apparently.

[El Bunto]

Cant be many A340's that have visited BFS? Indeed not! Just a handful. BWIA, Ait Tahiti Nui, Hi-Fly and Luftwaffe come to mind and that's about it.

AFR378 departed westbound now.

[eastern wiseguy]

And Virgin pitched up to train when they got theirs......so practically none then :p

[GAZMO]

Notice UA 1752 tomorrow departure as well as UA 76

Anybody why extra flight on departure board

[BFS BHD]

Todays outbound flight was cancelled as the aircraft went tec so still sitting up at BFS. :)

[BHD2BFS]

So with launch of the summer schedules fast approaching, are we going to see an increase in pax numbers compared to last summer?
Apart from the 2 new routes from EZY which are only a few times a week have all the airlines increased freq on any routes?

On a different not has there been any changes to the airport since it was taken over or are we still in the changeover process?

I have heard Servisair/Swissport have won the easyjet contract?
Does this mean Menzies now only do UA?

Thought I would ask all the questions since they came to my head :ok:

[KNT544]

The whole Menzies / Swissport thing is a farce. So much for tupe regulations. So glad I am not working the 1st of April as I foresee a very very bad day in ground handling.

[GAZMO]

BHD2BFS
Apart from a couple of extra charter flights nothing else really
BOD and JER appear to have good LF based on the current prices of flights, although by chopping BHX on Tuesday and Saturday AM I think this is slightly crazy as judging by last months CAA stats they flew more pax than BEE to BHX and I feel this is giving the onus back to BEE on BHx

Just my thoughts

Still hoping EZY will introduce a few more European and LON routes

[ILS25]

BFS is a complete joke now.

I was having a look at their facebook page and all they can put on it are pictures of cakes and boasts about planes diverted from elsewhere. Big news!

They even put a picture up of the diverted BA flight from the city airport on Tuesday. Strangely I didn't see anywhere the pictures of the empty stands on Monday when the easy flights were diverted to the city.

The management at the city airport must have a right laugh at it all.

[SecondDog]

It is a Facebook page though, pointless updates are what social media was invented for it seems, so it shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

[elle may clampit]

Yeah - get real. Facebook is a by-word for pointlessness. Only surprise here is that there is some reference to planes on the Bfs page. Have you ever actually looked at the city airport Facebook stuff??? :hmm:

[ILS25]

Yes I have, and amongst the usual facebook drivel there are plenty of references to community projects etc supported by GBBCA, positive news, new lounge, free wifi etc.

None of the childish 'check out the diverted aircraft that was supposed to land at the rival airport up the road'. I guess BFS simply have nothing else to post.

[El Bunto]

RAF 146 in and out over the past couple of days.

That stiff breeze must have made things difficult for the four hairdryers.

[BFS101]

Balkan Tours have cancelled their summer programme from Belfast to Bulgaria. They have pledged to continue their winter ski programme.

Guess this is due to Balkan Holidays and Thomson operating flights to Bulgaria in direct competition over the last few years. Sad as they have been operating for years and are locally owned and run.

Believe they have no direct competition on a Bulgaria ski programme from Belfast.

[BFS BHD]

What winter ski operations have they got at BFS? :confused:

[AIRPORT66]

They have had a ski flight from Bfs for years it flies into Plovdiv operated by jet2.

[Bfs bloke]

There's the slalom along Lima taxiway and the ski jump off the air bridge on stand 22. :)

[BFS BHD]

They have had a ski flight from Bfs for years it flies into Plovdiv operated by jet2.


Ahhh thanks for that!

[BFS Dude]

BFS101 said;

Balkan Tours have cancelled their summer programme from Belfast to Bulgaria.

Where did you get that from as i can still book flights to Bulgaria with Balkan?

Out / In Route Dep. Time Arr. Time Flight Adult
30 Jun 2014, Mon Belfast/Bourgas 11:20 17:00 5572 £439.00
07 Jul 2014, Mon Bourgas/Belfast 08:30 10:20 5571

Have you got a link of where you saw it?

[BFS101]

Local Operator Axes its Summer Holiday Programme


Local tour operator Balkan Tours has pledged to continue its winter programme of ski holidays to Bulgaria and Romania but has discontinued its summer sun holiday programme.

Ann Street, Belfast-based Balkan Tours have been operating in Northern Ireland for decades now with winter and summer flights to Bulgaria and Romania from both Belfast and Dublin. The company was founded by Radka Lynn, a Bulgarian came to Northern Ireland Ireland more than 30 years ago and ever since has been one of the Province's few local tour operators.

Balkan Tours holds an Air Travel Organiser's Licence (ATOL) - and customers already booked a summer sun holiday with Balkan Tours are entitled to have their holiday honoured, or given a full refund.

NI Travel News - Northern Irelands Only Travel Newspaper (http://www.nitravelnews.com)

[BFS BHD]

Ahh thanks for the link and the info BFS101! :)

[BFS101]

BFS Dude, those flight times are for Balkan Holidays. It's Balkan Tours that are cancelling their programme.

[BFS Dude]

Ahh okay cheers for the link to it! Ahh right that explains it :)

[El Bunto]

Pair of Typhoons in for the weekend.

[BHD2BFS]

I notice Europe airpost is starting flights this summer from Glasgow to Halifax
With west jet also starting flights across the Atlantic using 737-700 with a capacity of 120-130pax surely this is the perfect size aircraft for a route from BFS to canada,

[stab3.5up]

Do the Europepost not start in Paris and call in GLA on the way? More reason for this type of operation to use BFS so only need to partial sell seats rather than an entire a/c. Or try even to get Westjet to use BFS

[GAZMO]

Looking at EZY flights to LON on. Monday 10 of the 11 flights fully booked, surely a need for additional flights to LON now since BEE have stopped LGW

[BHD2BFS]

Why increase freq causing a reduction in load factor and a reduction in profit
When they can control the market to the extent where they have full flights an maximum profit
Even EI haven't increased freq
NI market to London has been swamped in recent years between Ryanair and Air Berlin at one stage and EI before flybe dropped LGW

[EI-BUD]

Finally BE exit BHD LGW, sad day when you consider this was one , if not their busiest routes in terms of passenger numbers for many years. Also one of their longest standing.

BE traditionally carried 20-22k pax consistently on the route pre EI entered the route. BE had 5 195's per day at a point. EI with only 3 319s per day, they can expect best case scenario to carry 20k per month.

The route carried a very respectable 42k pax last July far in excess of ezy BFS LGW but ezy of late carrying more than the combined winter figures for EI + BE of over 32k pax per month


May release of CAA stats will tell the tale ...

[AIRPORT66]

With easyjet in the next couple of years introducing the airbus320 into there fleet they won't have to increase freqencies on the London routes just use these bigger aircraft some of the Lgw flights are carrying 170 pax on busy days at the moment.

[LAX_LHR]

With easyjet in the next couple of years introducing the airbus320 into there
fleet


The A320 is already well in use with Easyjet. Theres 59 of them in service?

[AIRPORT66]

All the fleet are to be airbus320 with winglets.

[LAX_LHR]

Well im not sure what you are talking about then as the addition of winglets does not change the size of the aircraft nor the performance on such a short route?

[El Bunto]

All the fleet are to be A320s. 35 more from next year and then the huge tranche of NEOs from 2017. The A319s are on the way out, rather than the fleet expanding much.

Which makes sense as they were the wrong choice in the first place. Fuel consumption is about 120 kg lower than the A320, but with the same number of cabin staff and 30 fewer seats.

Plus EZY bought the low-MTOW A319 which affects resale value; extra range is normally the A319's attraction. Ooops.

And of course the sharklets improve performance on short routes; even the 1% saving they offer on a 200 mile flight is beneficial.

[BFS BHD]

When should we see EXS, TCX & TOM put S15 flights on sale i'm almost sure last year EXS, TOM & TCX put them on sale at end of april?

Wonder if we will see any new airlines for next summer with the new owners now?

I think EZY puts W14/15 on sale soon as well!

[BFS Dude]

Looking at Thomas Cook | Cheap holidays, Package Holidays, Hotels and Flights (http://www.thomascook.com) it looks like Thomas Cook will have two flights again to Orlando from Belfast for 2015.

First one takes off 30 June 2015 and lands back on 14 July 2015.
Second flight takes off 7 June 2015 and lands back on 21 July 2015.

Times are as followed for both flights:

Belfast-Orlando

10:55-14:35

Orlando-Belfast

16:35-05:25

[EI-BUD]

easyJet using 320 on MAN last night. Positive indicator, the numbers have even rising steadily.

[GAZMO]

Not much change in EZY for winter 14/15. In fact slight reduction


Looked at Dec and return Feb


KRK only 2 X Weekly
MLA only 1 X Weekly
BCN ZERO??

[BFS BHD]

Alicante: Not Released Yet.
Dubrovnik: 1 Weekly.
Faro: 3 Weekly
Ibiza: Up to 3 Weekly :D
Lanzarote: Up to 2 Weekly :D
Palma: 6 Weekly
Malaga: Up to 3 Weekly :D
Mahon: 1 Weekly
Murcia: Not Released Yet.
Pisa: Not Released Yet.
Reus: 2 Weekly
Tenerife: 2 Weekly

[GAZMO]

Good news from JET2 after celebrating 10 years at BFS


With luck maybe a few new routes!!!!

[AIRPORT66]

Don't understand why ezy has cut back on these they have did ok right through the winter especially Krakow sometimes even at quiet times of the year this flight was nearly full.

[BFS BHD]

Still nothing from Alicante, Murcia and Pisa for Jet2 next summer 2015. Maybe tomorrow :)

[GAZMO]

Notice LS has two flights to Palma tomorrow, must be the start of the Easter rush!!

[BFS BHD]

That seems to be an error on website. Its only one takes off at 07:00 and lands 13:25.

If you look now its fixed :)

[GAZMO]

Thanks for correction

[GAZMO]

From EZY press release re BFS


Winter routes now on sale from Belfast include Malta, Barcelona, Geneva and Amsterdam with prices starting at £25.49 one way, based on two people booking at the same time"
also
"The airline has also released fares for key business routes including Barcelona and London airports of Gatwick, Stansted and Luton"


I cannot find BCN on sale after 3/11/2014?

[GAZMO]

Looking at the pax figures for KRK for last year EZY had an average of 95% load factor. (3 flights per week x 52 weeks in year = 156 flights with 46406 pax)
Can anyone suggest a logical reason why they are reducing to two flights per week starting in the winter schedule?