BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL

[GAZMO]

Another good piece of news

EasyJet celebrates flying 45 million passengers from Belfast - The Irish News (http://www.irishnews.com/business/2016/01/23/news/easyjet-celebrates-flying-45-million-passengers-from-belfast-391914/)

[AerRyan]

I can't see how.

Airlines like Easy Jet and Ryanair do it all the time, its only advertisement. Realistically the past means **** all its the future of the airport that counts.

[GAZMO]

Looks like Wizzair have stopped their Monday flight to VNO until March, or was this always the case?

[El Bunto]

Huh yes it has been removed, until 21st March apparently. Last one I have recorded was on 18th January.

It was still showing on the Belfast flight information page as of 17:50 this evening, I have it in my cache...

Arrivals
W68013 Vilnius 15:50 1550

Departures
W68014 Vilnius 16:20

... but not showing on the Vilnius end.

[BFS BHD]

Katowice is also 1 weekly to middle of March. Operating on a Saturday just.

[GAZMO]

Wonder if EZY maintaining three weekly flights to KRK this winter ( was two Jan to mid Feb last year) has put pressure on Wizzair to reduce Katowice?

[GAZMO]

Husky 1 in response I have moved to BFS thread
"Hardly. EasyJet have tried and subsequently dropped Inverness, Southend, Prague, Berlin, Venice, Bergamo (albeit a bookable charter), Malta, Rome. Experiments currently ongoing : Split, Jersey, Arrecife, Bordeaux, Jersey, Lyon"

Yes like most LCC they introduce new routes and if they do not get high yields and LF then they are removed.


However the experiments as you state, except possibly Lyon are doing well. Prices on Split are fairly high for the season, Jersey is running for full summer season and fourth weekly flight on Mondays in peak summer. BOD prices look good (even found one price at over£400, probably due to football in Europe in June) and ACE appears to be good. Lyon?? Will have to wait to see if back next year

[Husky One]

Agreed but the point I was making was in response to the idea that somehow EI were the only carrier willing to try different routes. LCC's are generally much braver than legacies in this area.

I have to say the habitual rivalry between the 2 airports I'd getting beyond tedious. Both have a lot to answer for. BFS is a shambles. Chronic lack of investment is worn on its sleeve. A terminal in dire need of replacement has so far benefitted only from refurbished toilets.
BHD clearly has a racket going on politically. The squandering of millions on routes already served by BFS is nothing short of scandalous. Next pile of money to be burnt is the development of BHD-CAX.

This country desperately needs a cohesive air transport policy and fast. One that looks beyond two mediocre operations tit-for-tatting themselves to oblivion.

[GAZMO]

Husky One
Have two agree on two points, it is getting tedious the comments re both airports. If an airline wishes to move then fine as probably means they reduce costs. If you have to fly to LHR then does it really matter which airport
Secondly yes we do need an aviation strategy for NI, but I don't think we will get that from the fools on the hill!!!

[AerRyan]

But it does matter where you fly FROM if you going to LHR! The business person is a lot less willing to travel outside the city for a flight than the leisure market. You cannot deny it.

[mart901]

Husky one

It's not so much strategy that's needed as the removal of APD. Just about every airline has said its prohibitive. Putting our airports on a level playing field as down south would change this greatly. Our airports as private businesses will invest where they can see a return potential, and clawing passengers away from DUB would be one sure fire way to achieve this. Failing that we shall see what the route development fund looks like.

[True Blue]

AerRyan

are there only business people in and around the city of Belfast? Outside the city boundary, does the rest not matter?

TB

[AerRyan]

Belfast is where it would be centered. Simple economics. Of course there is business outside Belfast, but they would be accustomed to the slightly worse transport links, being furthee away from thingsetc.

Exactly why LCY is so business focused and STN, LTN, LGW are lesuire focused.

[True Blue]

For many many years the business person was able to travel out to Bfs without any problem to get to Lhr, as it was the only option. Just love how in 2016 so many things are close to impossible, like having to get out to Bfs to get a flight. It is like all these stories that we would see a very large increase in overseas visitors if they could only fly into Bhd, as Bfs was at the other end of the earth. That and higher yield was among the main reasons given for EI moving to Bhd. Well I don't see that EI has been a roaring success at Bhd and if Dublin HQ thinks that they can earn more with those planes operating out of Dublin as opposed to Bhd, they will be down there in no time. The PR puff certainly didn't help Vueling either. Maybe some of us are just sick of the spin that is put out that some seem to think we all believe.

TB

[GAZMO]

Change of topic
Goods news from swissport at BFS
Swissport create 100 jobs at Belfast International - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35399123)

[BFS watcher]

Excellent news. Does look as the airport are making a point to the politicians. Nice to see someone putting the boot into that useless bunch up on the hill. Maybe the Duppers and the civil servants slavish support of BHD might have to change.

[BFS BHD]

EasyJet has put the Tuesday service to Lanzarote back on sale for the summer. Now two weekly again! :ok:

[BFS BHD]

MD of BFS is saying more job announcements to come in the next few weeks! :)

[GAZMO]

Good news on ACE, route must be performing well for EZY
Wonder if job announcements will have anything to do with any new route announcements? With swissport and ICTS announcing new jobs I can't think of any other, unless new retail at BFS

[BFS BHD]

Another tweet from the MD, hoping that means route/airline announcements and jobs....

https://twitter.com/grahamck63/status/692085444918538240

[mart901]

Whoop whoop!

Passenger numbers at Belfast airports soar to seven million...but Derry traffic drops - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/passenger-numbers-at-belfast-airports-soar-to-seven-millionbut-derry-traffic-drops-34399695.html)

[eastern wiseguy]

Getting back to where we were. Great to see.

I have to wonder how much longer Derry can possibly continue though with those dreadful figures.

[GAZMO]

As long as the ratepayers cough up the millions.!!!!!!
Poor year I agree down 68K.
Nice to see increased numbers at both BFS and BHD.
Hopefully good 2016

[cuthere]

Derry Airport is a shambles. I couldn't agree more. FR screwing the place and holding it to ransom being the biggest issue. More recently, the supposed flights to DUB and IOM have not actually appeared anywhere for booking.

However, unless you live in the Derry and Strabane District area GAZMO (I'm sure you'd have "noticed" if you did), then it's not costing you anything. I could list a whole lot of projects tax/rate payers' money has been utterly wasted on. LDY wouldn't be in the top 10.

As an aside, and getting back to BFS, LDY serves as a timely reminder of what happens when you get into bed with FR. Be careful what you wish for.

[eastern wiseguy]

The FR thing is a fair comment. However both the Belfast airports had(and in terms of BFS still has) a more diverse customer base (in terms of operators) CODA is a very small niche market at best. If I was a rate payer I would be pretty ticked off at paying for what appears to be a "vanity project" for the council(s).

Anyways back to BFS .

[cuthere]

The FR thing is a fair comment. However both the Belfast airports had(and in terms of BFS still has) a more diverse customer base (in terms of operators) CODA is a very small niche market at best. If I was a rate payer I would be pretty ticked off at paying for what appears to be a "vanity project" for the council(s).

Anyways back to BFS .

Completely agree.

However, there are extenuating circumstances for the "vanity project". The main one is the utter neglect of the NW of Northern Ireland by Stormont. There's an excellent Twitter account run by a chap with the handle Derry Diaspora (there are many fitting that name!) which only this week took INI to task about their Belfast-centric ways. The ensuing discussion tells you all you need to know.

One of the biggest issues we in the NW have is road access. Many on here blather on about how BFS is only 12 miles from Belfast city centre. Well. Isn't that great. What about the other 1.2 million of us for whom Belfast isn't our centre? The roads from Derry, Enniskillen, Strabane, South Down etc etc are awful. Where does that factor in?

Until it does, vanity projects will continue.

[eastern wiseguy]

Agreed. Northern Ireland never did have a joined up transport plan. Even a bus from Derry calling at BFS both ways on (e.g.) an hourly basis might help.

[El Bunto]

One of the biggest issues we in the NW have is road access.


Have a look at the 1964 and 1969 motorway plans for NI:

History - Northern Ireland Motorway Plans - Northern Ireland Roads Site (http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/historymotorwayplans.html)

Yes, the M2 would have led into the M23 all the way to Derry.

Unfortunately, the money to be spent on that network had to be wasted on the Troubles, so now you know who to blame for about NI's poor roadway infrastructure.

[BFS BHD]

Appears that Thomas Cook will be operating to Plovdiv for Travel Solutions next winter.
Appears to operate on four dates at the minute on 1st & 15th January, 19th February & 5th March 2017.
Not sure if they are replacing Jet2 or this is a extra service for Travel Solutions?

[JM926]

Appears that Thomas Cook will be operating to Plovdiv for Travel Solutions next winter.
Appears to operate on four dates at the minute on 1st & 15th January, 19th February & 5th March 2017.
Not sure if they are replacing Jet2 or this is a extra service for Travel Solutions?

Jet2 operating Plovdiv charter every week this season so I'm assuming what you have quoted would be extra capacity? Otherwise travel solutions would be drastically reducing their number of flights next season

[GAZMO]

Travel Solutions are increasing capacity by 50%, so I would assume these are extra flights


NI Travel News nitravelnews.com ([email protected])

[BFS BHD]

Thanks for the info! :)

[panpanpanpan]

El Bunto, a very interesting look back at what might have been, infrastructure would certainly have been very different! There is a real irony that the very people who for years did their very best to blow the place to bits are now in charge of deciding the planning policies of the future - except the muppets in Stormont can barely agree on what day it is never mind make important decisions.:mad:

I wonder will our masters in London be so gracious and accommodating when the first ISIS MP is elected for Tower Hamlets?:hmm:

[True Blue]

Gazmo

Your link takes you to email. Maybe you could post the link again.

Thanks

TB

[frequentflyer2]

Agreed. Northern Ireland never did have a joined up transport plan. Even a bus from Derry calling at BFS both ways on (e.g.) an hourly basis might help.

Such a service does exist. It's called the airporter. It links Derry with bfs and bhd. It can also be used by anyone wishing to transfer between the two airports.

[GAZMO]

Link NI Travel News - Northern Irelands Only Travel Newspaper (http://www.nitravelnews.com)

[GAZMO]

Thomas cook special to Cuba tomorrow. If successful will they try another later in the year?

[El Bunto]

Tu-204 freighter in again from Russia tonight, third time in as many months. Apparently to collect machinery parts for a natural gas project in Siberia.

Good to see but a pity it doesn't have windows and seats...

[GAZMO]

LS from Polovia now showing as coming in from Sofia. Very late, has this been a tech issue?

[BFS watcher]

Rumour that FR will announce new European destination for sale from BFS tomorrow. My guess is either Copenhagen, Milan or Brussels.

[GAZMO]

Assume they will be starting in the autumn. All three routes would be nice. Will they do a route to GB, LBA or EMA?

[BFS BHD]

Milan (Bergamo) on the Ryanair app.

2 weekly from 2nd November 2016!

[GAZMO]

Great news hopefully more to come

[EI-BUD]

Great News. Been a while since the Aer Lingus Milan (Malpensa) route ex BFS. Departure first thing in the morning Tuesday and Saturday and back into Belfast by 1155, I'm guessing that a sun route of some length will appear, like Tenerife and would be Tue and Sat pm. So definitely another based unit, great news.


Any domestics that they come up with could be with non based units, certainly in the case of EMA...


EI-BUD

[BHD2BFS]

Any reason why BFS isn't appearing on app at the moment?

[GAZMO]

Maybe updating a few more routes!!

[BHD2BFS]

Management did say there would be more announcements this week following swissports last week

However did they not say ryanair would not announce any more routes until autumn?

[BFS BHD]

They said the other routes will begin from October 2016, so all the other routes will be announced soon.

[cuthere]

A total of 756 seats a week rtn. Wow. FR ain't playing games.

Let's see how long that one runs with APD added (genuinely from a cynical FR spectator and not from a BFS cynic - for once!). NOC didn't last long (for example).

[mart901]

Sure its not MXP, FR new base?

[GAZMO]

Interesting not on mobile app at moment........updating.....hopefully not false hope

[BFS watcher]

Airport having jobs fair at the Templeton next Monday between 4 and 7. Supposedly several hundred jobs on offer.

[BFS BHD]

Looks like Milan isn't going back on sale tonight anyways for Ryanair... wonder whats happening.

[True Blue]

News item in my local paper quoting BFS human resources manager that Fr will operate 6 routes with 3based aircraft and expect to carry 1m pax. Article is about the jobs fair.

[GAZMO]

Hopefully they will be uploading the rest of the schedule and will release altogether?

TB six routes, maybe we should start to speculate........BRU, DUS, BCN, TFS?

[br8fmr]

This may have something to do with, They would not want to announce a new Italian route when in negotiations about this.
"Ryanair (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airline/FR) (FR, Dublin Int'l (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airports/2201)) has announced it will scale back its Italian operations as a result of a 40% hike in passenger departure taxes which came into effect on January 1 of this year."

[GAZMO]

...............and we complain about APD!!! Some rise!!

[mart901]

BGY-BFS was announced at a press conference in Italy today so unless a spanner has been thrown in the works ? A number of routes from BGY and MXL were launched.

[Jamie2k9]

BGY-BFS was announced at a press conference in Italy today so unless a spanner has been thrown in the works ? A number of routes from BGY and MXL were launched.

It was not, the following was announced in Milan

BGY
1 additional aircraft (16)
5 routes - Hamburg, Nuremberg, Prague (daily), Timisoara (x5), Gdansk (x3)
Bristol and Santiago to be extended
Additional Freq - Madrid, Warsaw, Manchester, Vilnius, Lanzarote and Malaga

MXP
1 additional aircraft (2)
4 routes - Catania (4 daily), Brussels (2 daily), Sofia (daily), Gran Canaria (x1)

Did FR not state no new routes until APD is removed, adding routes now would defeat this.

[West Brit]

Did FR not state no new routes until APD is removed, adding routes now would defeat this


Well if that is the case LGW will be the only FR route from BFS. There is going to be a lot of egg on the face of those recruiting at BFS.

[ESCNI]

...............and we complain about APD!!! Some rise!!

Not really, the 40% rise still only makes Italy's departure tax about half that of the UK's APD.

:{

[mart901]

Jamie2k9

The airport itself posted BFS as a destination announced at a press conference yesterday. It may be factually incorrect but I can fully assure you they did.

[BFS BHD]

The business lounge at Belfast International will now be called ''Causeway Lounge'' once its reopens after the full refurbishment that is taking place.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/marcon-fitout-begins-work-on-airport-lounge-revamp-34418243.html

[EI-BUD]

This is certainly progress, yet outside of United's Newark service, it is hard to see where the demand will come from for this lounge to make it sustainable. In the days of Aer Lingus at the airport I had been into the old lounge on a few occasions and I was the only person in there at that time. So something has to be coming to justify the investment. Ryanair cannot be the reason for it, and when I read comments about BFS working on a project, I cannot help but think that we will see Norwegian coming in with a transatlantic route, and like the Cork proposal a Barcelona route to boot. Worth considering. In terms of the Lounge that alone seems small in terms of numbers.


Alternatively, the only other thing could be BFS trying to tick the boxes in order to make a BA return achievable.


Any other ideas?

[GAZMO]

Have to agree EI BUD, there must be something in the pipeline!

[BHD2BFS]

Lots of travellers gain lounge access from bank accounts such as Prioroty Pass sp don't need to be travelling with a premium service airline plus out sourcing lounges seem to be the way to go for most airlines so makes sence for BFS to have the upgrade

[EI-BUD]

BHD2BFS,
Yes I agree with your comments, re priority pass etc. but the old one never seems very busy, I am at this point at pains to see how the volume of visitors will justify the investment, which likely to be significant. What has changes between now and the last lounge?


People like holiday extras etc. have been offering lounge access at a pay per play rate, yet I haven't noticed at any point the lounge being busy when it was open.


EI-BUD

[BHD2BFS]

I think the reason it was quiet was because it wasn't worth the money

Having used BHD on a few occasions it is worth the money to sit in a nice environment with great selection of food and all you can drink alcohol

BFS offered none of this

Just my views anyway

[mart901]

Exactly - needs to be value for money to entice people to use it. It probably would be a factor some airlines would think about when looking at potential airports, and when the airport is looking for investors it looks good to have such a facility. I doubt very much FR could care less about business lounges!

[SecondDog]

This is certainly progress, yet outside of United's Newark service, it is hard to see where the demand will come from for this lounge to make it sustainable. In the days of Aer Lingus at the airport I had been into the old lounge on a few occasions and I was the only person in there at that time. So something has to be coming to justify the investment. Ryanair cannot be the reason for it, and when I read comments about BFS working on a project, I cannot help but think that we will see Norwegian coming in with a transatlantic route, and like the Cork proposal a Barcelona route to boot. Worth considering. In terms of the Lounge that alone seems small in terms of numbers.


Alternatively, the only other thing could be BFS trying to tick the boxes in order to make a BA return achievable.


Any other ideas?

Hopefully you are right and there is something additional in the pipeline but you are estimating low for lounge usage. As with the general boost in passenger numbers, the lounge has been improving over the last while. There will always be quiet times in the lounge outside peak business periods....

[mart901]

Also before everyone gets carried away its worth remembering its a chargeable service, one with the potential to make money. When a business looks at investment that's pretty much the first and main consideration after legal compliance such as health and safety. So while probably most of the airport could do with refurbishment, priority will go to things like business lounges - its like having a club class lounge on a ferry or a first class carriage on a train.

[BHD2BFS]

May sound a little far fetched

But if management did manage to entice BA and I stress "IF" that would more than likely mean EI would return with them
Could it be viable for EI Regional to arrive at BFS and compete on routes that BE operate? Routes which EZY and FR couldn't operate profitably
Such as SOU EXT ABZ INV CWL NQY maybe even BOH?

[cuthere]

EXT is Flybe's home base - dream on. BOH is being closed by BE - Jet2 did it for a while. Didn't last long. CWL is a thin route to say the least, but BE have it covered. SOU does well - its runway is likely the reason neither EZY nor FR are in town. ABZ is undergoing massive consolidation because of oil prices nosediving. INV would provide low numbers (as is served thoroughly by BE). NQY is a seasonal destination that is also thin from the north of Ireland.

So. Two things would need to happen. The first would be IAG deciding an airport stocked with EZY and FR (in some form) would be an attractive proposition. The second (after the very unlikely first) thing to happen would be the chaps in charge to decide all the established routes operated by BE would be financially viable for them to duplicate at BFS.

Seems unlikely.......

[BHD2BFS]

They would be starting a route to fight to get BE of it and gain passengers not to run it at same freq as BE
Also I believe BE ABZ service is going double daily on certain days of the week from the summer I think I read somewhere
BOH didn't work for jet2 potentially because of the size of aircraft the same reason they dropped Cork
And BE leaving BOH would have nothing to do with EIR for a start they didn't even operate the route from BHD also I believe the reason they dropped BOH is because they found passengers where moving from SOU to BOH which ended to effecting loads at 2 airports

[cuthere]

I see. You're lining up a lot of conjecture involving EI Regional to get BE off the routes they currently serve successfully? Are you aware of their available fleet?

Also. Have you been on flights from CWL, EXT or SOU to BHD? I have. And trust me, the users are perfectly happy with landing at BHD.

BE increasing frequency on ABZ would suggest BE are doing well. I mentioned BOH as a possible opportunity. The only opportunity in your fantasy post.

[BHD2BFS]

It was a passing comment about which airlines could come to BFS

No need to take it seriously and with offence

[cuthere]

No offence taken at all. None was meant either. However, hopefully you see how outlandish your speculation was.

[West Brit]

Also. Have you been on flights from CWL, EXT or SOU to BHD? I have. And trust me, the users are perfectly happy with landing at BHD
How come every route at bhd that is duplicated at bfs has a higher volume of traffic using the bfs option? Before you answer aircraft size. EI lgw/bhd route has always been in decline. Man and BHX have a much higher frequency. The route passenger figures are fact. Your assumption on cwl/bhd being prefered by passengers over cwl/bfs at a guess would be based on 'conjecture'

[GAZMO]

More jobs created at BFS. Article states just under 300 created in last two months, with only FR one aircraft arriving in March, seems a lot of staff?

Belfast International Airport: 115 jobs created by six companies - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35487258)

[EI-BUD]

West Brit,

It's a tad futile a conversation to say that for the same routes ex BFS there are higher numbers. If easyJet ops were into BHD and Flybe into BFS the trend would swiftly be reversed. Equally, BHD LGW was busier than BFS LGW for a time when capacity and low fares were more widely available. So price does play a big part.

Aer Lingus equally have reduced aircraft size and numbers have declined proportionately in turn. The level of passengers on BHD LGW are as good as BFS in proportion to the seats available. If airlines don't put the capacity into place, the passengers won't fly.

There are a cocktail of factors at work here, yes price. But frequency, number of seats, schedule convenience, relevant strength of the airline to compete, how established a route is etc.

Just my perspective on the subject. While this post will defend the performance of BHD, it could always be argued that the proximity of BFS as too far out of town is a nonsense, bourne out by the figures....

[cuthere]

Excellent points EI-BUD, but I fear logic and statistics will not be enough to placate people like West Brit. The only way to sate his/her appetite is for BHD to close, and everything to transfer up to the shed.

The distance thing keeps rearing its head too. The plain fact of the matter is that people from the mainland DO choose BHD for its convenience to the city centre. Their perspective of BFS is that it's out in the Stix. Rightly or wrongly, that IS their perspective.

[West Brit]

EI-BUD,


Agree totally, was responding to 'And trust me, the users are perfectly happy with landing at BHD' by cuthere, who was suggesting that a survey he carried out on all these flights there was a over whelming preference to fly from BHD.


He also talked about 'thin' routes like CWL. I can remember a 'thin' route the Belfast/Liverpool. In the mid nineties there was 1 Manx ATP per day during the week. Now that was a thin route especially with MAN located nearby. EZY with the correct model has turned that route around to one of the busiest there is out of NI. Now CWL could easily be supported by FR or EZY my guess would be 2 per day.

[DHC4]

Do many of the operators have Licensed Engineers based at the airports in NI. West Brit are you really.

[cuthere]

Hahaha! You're not helping yourself here Westbrit. CWL-DUB can't support a single daily FR bird, but somehow BFS could support double daily. You're covering yourself in glory here mate.

[cuthere]

Oh, and p.s. Westbrit, I said, and you even quote me, that those pax were PERFECTLY HAPPY to land at BHD. I'm not sure where in that statement I said they have a preference? Most of them probably think NI has one airport. A bit like you.

[West Brit]

cuthere,


Well if someone asked me, while on a flight, if I was happy to land at the airport where I had booked a flight too then my answer would be yes!! So I feel that you are suggesting a preference.


By the way, I most definitely support one airport for NI, and find the current situation is costing opportunities, jobs etc as the 2 Belfast airports fight it out. The real winner is Dublin and many, not just me, see this as the reality. Until either there is one owner of both or authority step in, this will continue to be the case with no advantage to NI plc.

[cuthere]

I've been on these forums for over 12 years. And every so often a new user appears who thinks they have the solution to the aviation situation in NI. Get it through your skull. BHD, like BFS, is a private enterprise. It cannot be forced to be closed. Nor can BFS. Nor should either.

Do we really have to go through this again? Or can you digest that fact? Also, digest this fact. BFS is nothing but an unwashed toilet compared to DUB. BHD is a shiny cloakroom in the same comparison. DUB will ALWAYS be the dominant airport on this island, and for you, or anyone else, to seriously think a single NI airport could compete effectively really is fantasy of the highest order.

[bongoo]

Don't post much on this forum anymore now due to the absolute nonsense spouted by some but have to agree 100% with cuthere. Top post mate :D

[SecondDog]

Actually Cuthere is just trying to use a forceful opinion with scathing assessment for effect.

I found his/her last post a bit confusing. He defends the 'private enterprise' right for BHD/BFS to exist regardless of economic viability. Then (s)he says that DUB is destined to always be dominant and neither Northern Airport should expect to compete. So what happened to private enterprise's right to attempt growth and competition?

Just because you may think that there is no scope for competition doesn't mean that is neccessarily the case. Also, private enterprise has no right to exist if it is not economically viable. The state in which the enterprise operates does have right to set the guidelines for the enterprise so that the needs of the state are best served. I would suggest that this is where we fall down because the folks on the hill are useless at best and biased toward a failing enterprise at worst.

Call it a toilet all you want but BFS still represents the best solution for maximising N.I. potential for aviation and I suggest it has become run down because hard decisions weren't made when they needed to be.

[cuthere]

Scathing or brutally honest? BFS is tired, run down, dark and I don't find it particularly welcoming. When Burgerking is the highlight of an airport, you know there's an issue.

There is no conflict in what I say at all. As private enterprises, if one fails then it will be eaten by capitalist reality. If one survives, it will thrive within its capacity to do so - and should be let to.

As an example, I'm sure Bangor would love to have the same urban economy as Belfast, and it will strive to do its best, but effectively it can try all it likes. It can't compete. Exactly the same with all, one or none of the NI airports vs Dublin. The only currently non-viable, non-profit making airport in NI is LDY. The other two are bimbling along in their respective niches. That's as good as it'll get for some time, and it's about time people woke up to that reality.

[El Bunto]

if I was happy to land at the airport where I had booked a flight too then my answer would be yes!!


Tell that to the Easyjet and Jet2 pax that ended-up in Dublin instead of Belfast International back in December... was a wee bit too windy and no length of asphalt will help then.

But it does raise a point; if City wants to remain a top choice for business passengers it really needs to step-up to Cat II ILS to avoid the foggy-morning problem. Is there a technical reason this hasn't been done? Interference from nearby steel structures perhaps?

[SecondDog]

Scathing or brutally honest? BFS is tired, run down, dark and I don't find it particularly welcoming. When Burgerking is the highlight of an airport, you know there's an issue.

There is no conflict in what I say at all. As private enterprises, if one fails then it will be eaten by capitalist reality. If one survives, it will thrive within its capacity to do so - and should be let to.

As an example, I'm sure Bangor would love to have the same urban economy as Belfast, and it will strive to do its best, but effectively it can try all it likes. It can't compete. Exactly the same with all, one or none of the NI airports vs Dublin. The only currently non-viable, non-profit making airport in NI is LDY. The other two are bimbling along in their respective niches. That's as good as it'll get for some time, and it's about time people woke up to that reality.

Scathing - because it is opinion rather than fact you give, which is biased by your own experience. No problem there - that is your right. But to continually tell people that they have to 'wake up and accept' what you say as truth is where I have to hold the hand up and say 'pardon me?'

You say if an enterprise fails it should be allowed to but I repeat that it not neccessarily the case in NI aviation and the idea that both airports are ticking along nicely doesn't quite ring true to me given the high level of debt that is involved.

Your example of Urban economy is a good one but you are looking at it from a whole. Within each economy are competing markets e.g. a fish shop in Bangor doesn't have to close because there is a bigger fish shop in Belfast, it just has to do its best to retain its local customers and do the odd deal to get a Belfast customer or two. But the town council should realise that there isn't room for two Bangor fish shops, one of which is only really fit for a niche customer base. And its councillors definitely shouldn't favour the niche shop just because it is beside the council chamber.....

If anyone needs woken up, it is the folk on the hill....

[Tower Ranger]

Of course Bangor can't compete with Belfast, it's way too far from Aldergrove!!

[Letsflycwl]

Hahaha! You're not helping yourself here Westbrit. CWL-DUB can't support a single daily FR bird, but somehow BFS could support double daily. You're covering yourself in glory here mate.
I think you find that when FR operated DUB-CWL-DUB before the argument with the old CWL management the loads were very high which saw FR introduce the then "new" 737-800 aircraft plus additional flights on some days.

If FR had stayed at CWL then yes the loads would be there

[keep_er_lit]

Is this BHD vs BFS debate still going on? (Yawnnn). Sums up NI in a nutshell. Holding on to the same old arguments year after year

[CabinCrewe]

its no worse than elsewhere #GLAvsEDI

[BHD2BFS]

Has there been any new retail/ restaurant announcements to go with all the expansion?

A little old but I see a new petrol station and forecourt will be built this year

I also wonder if the airport could support another hotel?
Over the years the airport bought out the independent car park firms and most of the land has been left derelict, plenty of space for one there

[BFS watcher]

I see a BA team were in today with the BFS management inspecting the business lounge refurbishment.

[mart901]

Did you see tonight's winning lottery numbers while you were looking into the crystal ball?

[DC9_10]

Flew through BFS today. Lots of suits and the boss showing these people around. Interesting I thought, as a family member has suggested an air bridge is also being installed in the vicinity of the new lounge. They work for the company involved in the revamp. Just saying.

[ILS25]

Flew through BFS today. Lots of suits and the boss showing these people around. Interesting I thought, as a family member has suggested an air bridge is also being installed in the vicinity of the new lounge. They work for the company involved in the revamp. Just saying.

It confuses me how a worker for Marcon knows about a new airbridge being installed and nobody from the airport itself seems to know. I'm not saying its not true, I just find it strange.

[mart901]

I know this is a rumour site but seriously some of the stuff people post on here is one big whatever. Someone in a suit viewing a business lounge. Of course they have - any business worth its salt would invite people over for coffee and a walk round such a facility. Its virtually free marketing. I'm sure BFS would do anything to poach an airline like BA in, and vice versa with BHD - this is business, it's ruthless and takes no prisoners. But please remember, a person in a suit does not mean a deal has been signed.

[shoe shine]

nor does someone saying it on here mean its true. the boss showing a number of suits around on a Saturday seems unlikely.

[cessnarocket]

Shoe shine, dc9s post was written at 10 past midnight so id say it is safe to assume it was Friday he was talking about!.

[shoe shine]

Fair point, I stand corrected. Maybe not paying as much attention as I should as I am so bored hearing that BA are being shown around BFS, extending the lounge for BA, building an air bridge for BA,etc. I think we can be sure that the only way BA will ever come back to BFS is if City closes down and that is not going to happen. WW stated quite some time ago that key customers, particularly in financial institutions preferred City Airport so unless citigroup relocate to Crumlin or Killead they will just have to keep dreaming. It is not going to happen.

[True Blue]

BA now know that they will have no competition from Belfast to Lhr for at least another 10 years. Regardless of what they have said, if they get an interesting deal from Bfs, they will move. And those business men , who for years had to use Bfs because there was no other option, what are they going to do if they want to get to/from Belfast? Many of here seem to forget that the only link to Lhr was from Bfs for many years, why is it such a problem now? Why if getting to Bfs is such an issue, has Bfs always carried more pax than Bhd to Lgw once Ezy got going? All those pax who use Bfs to Lgw had the choice to use Bhd, but didn't. Why would it be such an issue if pax had to use Bfs to get to Lhr, apart form personal opinions?

[mart901]

See all that true blue but people flying in on business prefer a land centrally. BHD actually looks the part as well. And with no disrespect to BFS (I like it) but its old and tatty, it has carved itself whether intentionally or otherwise a role as a low cost airport, like the LTN of NI. Trying to sell such a move to BA pax what would you say? BA - now landing further from your destination, with an expensive bus connection. The only tangible benefit is later flying hours, hours of the day many of their passengers wouldn't thank them for flying, similar to BE and a lesser extent EI. I can fully see with that in mind why say EZY or LS wouldn't move to BHD, totally unsuitable for their operations, even more so for TCX and TOM.The whole discussion about BA moving and why we have 2 airports in Belfast is boring, for what it's worth both are growing and both are attracting routes. All being well we will see FR open some new destinations and a route development fund, I watched the stormont debate on it recently and places like Madrid, Lisbon etc were mentioned. Actually was good to listen to, sounds positive.

[Belboy]

Who ever thought that BMI would move to City and that BA would cease operating Belfast International - LHR, but both eventually happened. While BA currently seem quite happy at City who is to say that at some stage in the future they wouldn't move back to BIA.

[TSR2]

The whole discussion about BA moving and why we have 2 airports in Belfast is boring,

In your opinion.

[cessnarocket]

Bfs watcher started this rumour then dissappeared, personally I think its total pie in the sky. I do like bfs and it would be my preferred choice but why would a full service airline choose it, its filthy,run down and outdated. Some serious doh required to update and management dont seem willing to spend. "Build and they will come" attitude needs adopted and fast!!! then we can take rumours like BA serious.

[mart901]

Exactly cessnarocket, and the arguments about BHD being the thorn in the side of BFS and its existence is the cause of the lack of investment are nonsense. There are much quieter airports in far better condition.

[SecondDog]

The suits that the boss showed around were SDLP Politicians and their associates (twitter folks, twitter!) - The BA group were visiting BFS weeks ago.

The MD (also on twitter folks) said that the possibility of additional airbridges was being considered (a bit of slippery wording though)

But to ask a really dumb (or perhaps not so dumb) question - who says it has to be BA they are considering the bridges for? That just runs with the same old game of pinching existing business. I say, lets try and bring in something new. Radical, I know given how backward we are at going forward here but how about we aim high for a change?? :ugh:

[EI-BUD]

Mart901,

I think you are missing the point that is being made above, people well may rather land in Belfast City, great little airport. But the point is well made that BA hold the cards here, they won't have any competition on the LHR route now that EI has in effect been neutralised as a competitor. Something in the region of 50% of passengers are transfer passengers on the route, so there will not be an alternative available ex BHD except for the token service offered by KLM via AMS.

Furthermore, huge assumptions are continually made here about where people want to land. Neither airport can hold claim to what the customer ideally wants, the passengers come from all over the province and cross border too, so yes for some BHD is more suitable, for more BFS is.

I think you'll find there are more tangible benefits than later flying hours. Like earlier opening, which may just allow for a realistic arrival time into LHR during the winter months, rather than the current 9am arrival. They need an arrival into LHR by 745/8am to give the business traveller on point to point the flexibility they need, an earlier departures may just give BA more options in terms of arrivals... Weather at BHD has seen multiple diversions in the last year. More fundamentally and connected to type point about the benefit of later opening hours, an increase in ac utilisation makes for a much lower unit cost. Just because BA is not classed as a low cost airline does not mean that they are not interested in the lowering operating costs. So while you are absolutely right that the likes of EZY, Jet2 etc may not be interested in the BHD opening hours, BA will absolutely be interested in improving its costs at any juncture.

In terms of competing with the others for point to point business and indeed business passengers, LHR is eye watering in terms of costs. Like something in the region of £70 taxes, charges etc on each departing passenger. WW himself cited these costs as the very reason why Bmi couldn't compete profitably on the domestic and short haul routes as they were in effect competing with all the low cost airlines on routes ex London and couldn't offer a ticket price that was profitable and somewhat comparable ( they can obviously charge a premium ex LHR but cost gap is huge). So if BFS can offer a knock down deal, which in the round even at a marginal return would all be incremental revenue for BFS. It should also come as no surprise as BHD had targeted BFS airlines over the years, as you would expect them to.

Whether this rumour develops into a reality or not, it is clear that the airlines hold the cards in negotiations and and hence the downward pressure on airport revenue.

There are also widespread comments on here consistently about BFS, I have been to and used 100's of airports around the world. I find BFS perfectly fine to use, the arrivals hall is by far the most grim aspect and external fascia, but otherwise I think it is of an acceptable standard, over 4m passengers didn't mind using it and judging by the year on year performance many were returning passengers. I've also noticed some progress, though slow but it is going on the right direction.

[True Blue]

I have flown through airports used by BA and still used by Ezy that wouldn't hold a candle to Bfs. So the comments here about how poor Bfs really amuses me.

[mart901]

OK EI-BUD. Tell me this. Why aren't BA at BFS?

[EI-BUD]

I don't think that is the point here. BA inherited the bmi position I.e. Ops at BHD, EI being already in situ meant that BA had to compete at BHD and rightly so, they'd be unlikely to go up to BFS and hand over the business to EI on the well established BHD LHR route. Now all of that has changed, BA now is in a very different position.

We could debate why any airline is at any airport in Belfast, there are specific business rationale for each, like eg easyJet not seeing ' any tangible benefit' from being at BHD... (though I don't necessity agree with their assessment/ findings).

It is of no consequence to me whether they fly from BHD or BFS.. I use BA frequently and incidentally live closer to BHD. My perspective is about giving balance this very one sided debate. It is a competitive market place. Whether BA move or not they'd be stupid not to assess the options...

There have been multiple rumours of various airline staff visiting the competing airports, some resulting in moves, and some not..

BA investigating a move to BFS is completely plausable. Given their position of relative strength, they could move and maintain their customer base in my view. For the business traveller particularly BHD is an excellent option, but they would have little choice but to follow BA if they moved. That's the point I think that needs to be considered.

EI-BUD

[davidjpowell]

I flew in and out of Belfast International in January (flying Easyjet). The experience was fantastic.

No queue at security, able to sit and work with power for the price of a coffee. Efficient staff, room to swing a cat.

The only thing that City has going for it in comparison is it's closer to the City. The 20 minute drive to me is well worthwhile.

[NWSRG]

BA investigating a move to BFS is completely plausable. Given their position of relative strength, they could move and maintain their customer base in my view. For the business traveller particularly BHD is an excellent option, but they would have little choice but to follow BA if they moved. That's the point I think that needs to be considered.

Agreed...BA have nothing to lose in moving to BFS, if the airport is offering a better deal than BHD. There is now no competitor to benefit from BHD-LHR/LGW, and BA's customers were happy to use BFS for years. This is hard business kicking in...if there is no competitor, BA don't need to worry about customer convenience...

However, if BA do move to BFS, does this open an opportunity for FlyBe? Either via LCY or maybe a return to LGW?

[West Brit]

When BD moved LHR to BHD in 2001, they said at the time they wanted a later flight back into BHD at around 22.15.

[EI-BUD]

NWSRG,

Absolutely, if BA did move, you can be sure a huge opportunity exists for Flybe to expand its LCY route, but a return to LGW most unlikely due to the unavailability and cost of slots, and with the two largest low cost airlines on LGW ex BFS with expanded capacity unlikely they'd touch it.

EI-BUD

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

What credible reason has anyone seen for BA making a move from the business friendly City airport to the easyJet dominated Aldergrove? Are they planning this before the summer schedules? End of October? Twelfth of Never?

Where has this come from? Because a group of BA execs was seen at BFS?

Btw there's no "big opportunity" for flybe even if they did move as the two markets overwhelmingly overlap! I think the analysis on the previous pages is not in any way evidence based and is wishful thinking in an echo chamber. I could be wrong, it would not be the first time(!) However BA have no record of moving from a convenient business friendly city centre airport to one further out. Now IAG are driving change at BA but this would be very unusual IMHO.

[mart901]

From what I gather BA are in a 5 yr deal at BHD, I'd struggle to conceive them exiting this in any less, if at all really. And any deal offered by BFS would be subject to counter deals from BHD. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I just find it extremely unlikely.

[True Blue]

So Bfs can make an offer to Ba which Bhd has to meet/exceed. So imagine, if you can, that Bfs makes a seriously low offer to BA, Bhd has to meet it. Where does that leave Bhd? Having just lost Lgw as well.

[BFS watcher]

This is a rumour and gossip site.....Professional Pilots Rumour Network. BA bods were seen round the terminal and I am assured that BFS are talking to BA. It is good to see all the BFS haters pop out of the woodwork. Anyway great start to the year as growth almost 20% in January, roll on the rest of the year.

[West Brit]

From what I gather BA are in a 5 yr deal at BHD

Is this the deal signed in 2012?

[mart901]

I believe so

[GAZMO]

Good figures for January. Press release today up 20%


Airport reports January surge in passenger numbers ... (http://www.belfastairport.com/blog-news/2016/february/airport-reports-january-surge-in-passenger-numbers)

[El Bunto]

Says Mr Keddie:

easyJet, Jet 2, United, Wizz are all enjoying increases in passenger traffic.Well except for Easyjet all those carriers will be enjoying decreases in passenger traffic due to reduced schedules at present. So I think that's a bit of a stretch of the truth....

[cessnarocket]

it is nice to see Bfs passenger figures on the up, I still maintain BA is pie in the sky unless management put hands in pockets and expand. Interesting where the extra 20% passengers came from tho? Will BHD be struggling to balance the books this year because of this? Could be sleepless nights ahead for some.

[GAZMO]

Cessnarocket
Compared to last January
UA operating three weekly (flights were cancelled last year Jan to early March)
BHX three extra weekly flights
MAN one extra weekly flight
LON six extra weekly flights (I think)
AMS 2/3 extra weekly flights (last year 4/5 flights per week this Jan 7 weekly)
KRK one extra weekly flight (only two weekly in January last year three this Jan)
Prague had three flights in early January with jet2
Wizz to Vilinus and Katowice ( twice weekly, although now reduce to weekly until late March)
TCX one flight to Cuba

Hopefully above correct

[DC9_10]

Wanted to reply earlier but weekend and work caught up. I travelled through BFS last Friday. Saw Mr Keddie with people who I have not named as BA execs, some you on here have jumped to conclusions. I also had time to have a quick drink with my brother in law, a freelance architect who is working for Marcon and stated lounge progress in two stages, the second being an installation of an airbridge. My relative as I said is an architect who's major work also includes the Mater Hospital, the Opera House and future plans for Belfast and has no agenda.

[GAZMO]

Thanks DC9 for clarification. I'm sure there will still be speculation which airline will be using the airbridge at gate 16/17!!!!!!

[eastern wiseguy]

Well it won't be a low cost carrier . The airbridge adds to cost and nothing to their bottom line.

So we may cross EZY,RYR,and Wizzair off that list of potential customers.

Is there anything scheduled for the "international pier" which might cause the transatlantic to move and require an airbridge? UAL don't like their pax (especially those in the front of the cabin) to have to trudge through a County Antrim rainy day to clamber up steps and sit soaked for the first hour or so of a flight.

Can customs/Border Force accommodate pax through that alternative route?

If none of the above seems likely then the conclusion I reach is that there seems to be a full service airline with domestic schedules that might be looking to use it.

What have I overlooked?

[cuthere]

Reality................?

[EI-BUD]

It is quite likely that easyJet may use an airbridge for their Gatwick route to differentiate themselves from Ryanair when they come into the route, so if there is an airbridge going in, this may be a plausable explanation.

[eastern wiseguy]

Reality....

Elaborate please. I looked at the issues and put them on "paper" as a means to stimulate conversation.

So forgive me if I take issue with your one word answer.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

BA bods were seen round the terminal and I am assured that BFS are talking to BA.
Just to be clear, management would not be doing their job if they were not trying to poach the traffic from the competition. Also there are a myriad of reasons for airline A to have meetings at airport B. Diversion cover is a common one as is a review of available facilities for new business going forward.
Questioning whether this is in anyway likely to mean BA moving from BFS to BHD does not make me a hater. If "h8ers gunna h8" is your world view, rumours are the least of your worries.

BA's typical target market is more slightly more prevelant out of BHD than BFS. They don't care enough about restricted opening hours to have that as a reason to move and cost benefit is restricted in time and had to have a potential loss of yield balanced against it as some high yield p2p traffic won't trek to BFS if BHD has a reasonable alternative which it would if BA moved! I see no rationale here for a move back to where they were in what, 2001?

[BHD2BFS]

Let's think this through logically,
If they are building a new airbridge by the requirement of an airline or a joint investment with an airline it's going to be an airline that is already in the NI market at BHD or BFS and know it's worth their while doing it
Look for example at Vueling, they lasted one summer season after big talk from WW that their was more routes on the cards with them
It won't be for FR
Why would EZY want one with other aircraft without, same goes for LS
And I would say TOM and TCX aren't fussed as they just use the current one when it's free

Having an airbridge beside a business lounge sounds like something United or BA would want
Could this possibly be at the interest of UA who I'm sure have loyal business cumstomers who don't like the long walk from the current lounge to the gate? Many business passengers like to stay in the lounge until the very last minute before they board the plane which they are unable to do at the moment

[BFS BHD]

No word on the other Ryanair routes yet?

I see Wizz Air are slowly releasing their W16/17 schedules at the minute. Katowice and Vilnius haven't been added yet but hopefully soon.

[mart901]

Yup hopefully something new will come on stream, KTW is always one of the last to be released. I did read the comments about airlines waiting for air route fund to launch new routes, hopefully this is true! Wizzair certainly have the capabilities to do a lot.

[GAZMO]

Have to agree I think airlines wil wait to see what is available from air route development fund before releasing any new routes

[shoe shine]

The design of the RDF and the mechanism by which it will be administered is complete, some fine tuning, and the minister will role it out. It has actually been ready to go for some time, not sure why it has been delayed, though one could easily be conspiratorial about these things and we'll see why soon enough. Lastly, there is no new airbridge going in, near the Causeway Lounge or anywhere else in BIA and, no planning permission or building control approval has been sought and both would be required.

[West Brit]

Provision could have been put in for an airbridge during the re-furbishment of the lounge, foolish not to. If an airline signs up and require an airbridge that could be sorted with all necessary regulations satisfied fairly quickly. I don't think planning would object to an airbridge at an airport!! there was one there before.

[BFS watcher]

Causeway Lounge | Belfast International Airport (http://www.belfastairport.com/at-the-airport/causeway-lounge) Looks pretty good.

[ILS25]

Causeway Lounge | Belfast International Airport (http://www.belfastairport.com/at-the-airport/causeway-lounge) Looks pretty good.

Agreed. Along with the new toilet facilities its nice to see improvements. Long may it continue.

[True Blue]

Passing through Bfs on Monday, will the lounge be open again on Monday?

TB

[GAZMO]

Nice lounge
Must try it out next time I'm passing through

[BFS BHD]

The Causeway Lounge open today as did the Viewing Gallery.

[sarcon]

Watcher, the pics of the new lounge are pretty good, but don't do it justice. It is absolutely brilliant, the level of comfort, the amount of space, and the selection of food, hot and cold, is fantastic. It's as good an airport lounge as you'll get anywhere in the UK. I used it yesterday and will do so on my next trip. Look forward to the official opening, hope it's not the usual suspects asked to do it.

[mart901]

Looking at flights to EWR in Oct its cheaper direct from BFS than DUB with EI! Only about £25 but goes to show !

[ILS25]

Looking at flights to EWR in Oct its cheaper direct from BFS than DUB with EI! Only about £25 but goes to show !

It is often cheaper from BFS.

[mart901]

Really? You'd never know listening to people and reading posts on here. Good to know - something worth shouting about. Anybody got experience of the route and customer service? That's a mixed bag on reviews

[AerRyan]

Flown SNN-EWR before and they're good. Better than Aer Lingus in many aspects, food is about as good it gets on an airplane, service is fast and efficient, although you can't beat the personalised service an Irish crew member offers.

[Una Due Tfc]

In my experience virtually all the Euro legacies are streets ahead of the US big 3 in terms of product.

I'd rate DL 1st, UA 2nd and AA 3rd of the US 3. They spent eff all on their cabins and fleets for years and it was really showing (record profits though).

All 3 are spending big bucks on their product now, but UA aren't touchng up the 757s afaik.

As for EI there's a big difference between the experience on the 330s and 757s, never had the "pleasure" of the OAE 767 ex SNN, and hopefully never will.

[mart901]

Heard good stuff about EI's 757 services actually

[Una Due Tfc]

IFE is better on the 752 (no idea why) but no wifi. Business class is far superior on 330 but yet to experience it personally, much harder to blag your way up front these days!

[mart901]

Being away from WiFi for 6 hrs would probably be a blessing!

[eastern wiseguy]

Cheaper from BFS? Never in my experience. Unfortunately.

I am traveling from CLE to NI in April and whilst the flights alluded to are not both by UA the price differential is a big driver .

CLE-DUB $771

CLE-BFS $1001.

Both flights return to CLE

The CLE-BFS is a little shorter but doesn't justify the additional cost (particularly when you factor in more than one traveller). This is a similar pattern when the flight originates in BFS/DUB

[ILS25]

Well I've flown twice and once it was cheaper than any flights from DUB and the 2nd time it was only £25 more so not worth the road trip. I've also priced to do other trips and it came in cheaper but the connection times were rubbish for my onward journey so flew direct.

[eastern wiseguy]

Hardly a ringing endorsement of your "often cheaper" assertion if you have "flown twice" and "once" it was cheaper and the second was 25 quid more.

I would dearly love to use BFS however the combination of higher expense and the often long lines at immigration in the USA works against it. The single North American connection on a narrow body also does it no favours.

Dublin is cheaper,more choice,and I can clear immigration before I leave. That lets me get a tighter connection home.

[ILS25]

Hardly a ringing endorsement of your "often cheaper" assertion if you have "flown twice" and "once" it was cheaper and the second was 25 quid more.

I would dearly love to use BFS however the combination of higher expense and the often long lines at immigration in the USA works against it. The single North American connection on a narrow body also does it no favours.

Dublin is cheaper,more choice,and I can clear immigration before I leave. That lets me get a tighter connection home.

OK, you've got me. It's sometimes often cheaper.

[BFS Dude]

Rumour on another website that Willie Walsh is going to be at Belfast International Airport this week. Anyone heard anything?

Vueling maybe moving to BFS or maybe BA moving to BFS is true....

[GAZMO]

Which website?
Always speculation on this thread re IAG

[AerRyan]

I'll believe it when I see it.

Seems almost like people are just making it up for the craic now.

[West Brit]

Why would WW come to BFS? Maybe he lives near Tring and is going on a trip to visit NI (holiday). As the nearest airport would be LTN it would make sense to fly with EZY to BFS.

[Jamie2k9]

Was he not in Belfast last week?

[GAZMO]

Yes was in Belfast last week giving talk on leadership and took the opportunity to take a swipe at APD

[BFS BHD]

I think the website they are on about is NI Aviation. :)

[cessnarocket]

"It’s probably going to come with Iberia Express ... Iberia or Vueling, more so than British Airways. It could be an option. The problem with Belfast City Airport is the runway length, so we can’t use all of our aircraft.”


Interesting statement from wee willie in today's business telegraph. Perhaps there is some substance in the IAG rumour.

[cessnarocket]

Cessnarocket




Sorry...made me smile....back to the subject. :)
Oops few too many ciders 😜.

[eastern wiseguy]

:D:D..............

[True Blue]

Flew yesterday evening to Lgw on Ezy and back tonight. Both flights full. With the recent up-turn in pax numbers at Bfs, it makes me wonder how much Ezy has been restricting growth at Bfs in the past. Increasingly thinking that the arrival of FR is a good thing, Ezy has been getting it too comfortable for too long, in my opinion.

TB

[EI-BUD]

TrueBlue,
You've always held this theory and you might just be right. I've used easyJet on LGW a few times in the last few weeks. Flights full on early out and late back, while interestingly Aer Lingus still selling seats at reasonably low prices 2 days before flights and not full. The easyJet brand is going from strength to strength here.

Ryanair to my mind have done next to no marketing for the LGW BFS route, perhaps they don't think they need to. The last foray into Belfast the marketing splash was huge..

[frequentflyer2]

Just perusing current job vacancies in Belfast. BA are advertising for a "Key Partnership Manager" to work locally leading a team of three with a revenue target of 100 million Euros. The ad refers to a co-ordinated BA, JB and IAG environment. They're obviously planning something here.

[GAZMO]

BFS or BHD??

[frequentflyer2]

It doesn't say if the job will be based at either airport.

[mart901]

Frequentflyer2

Sorry for my ignorance, what's JB?

[j636]

This is nothing more than to drive business to IAG, you see companies like EK and EY doing it to drive business to DUB etc

You are over analyzing everything about BA and BFS, if they come they will come (unlikely IMO) however just wait and see. It's like EI planing to split BFS/BHD ops, nothing ever came of it.

[mart901]

Also further to that j636 I think it's an updated version of an existing role in BA, reflecting the bigger size of the IAG group.

[GAZMO]

From NI Travel News


"Berlin Expected to be Ryanair's 'Headline' Route German capital Berlin looks like being the headline-grabbing new route to be announced by Ryanair next month when it adds to its inaugural Belfast International route to Gatwick which begins in at the end of March.
Two other major European cities, Brussels and Barcelona, are also tipped to be on the schedule for start-up later this year, along with services to East Midlands, Newcastle and Leeds/Bradford"

[Dee747]

That would suit me right down to the ground. Saves having to travel to DUB each time. Happy days if it turns out to be true. :ok:

[GAZMO]

Some quotes from anna.aero website


" the first route that anna.aero predicts will be served will be to East Midlands, in direct competition with Flybe’s 25 weekly departures from Belfast City "
"The second domestic route which anna.aero predicts that Ryanair will serve from its new base is Leeds Bradford (http://www.therouteshop.com/coming-soon/), a route which is not served directly from Belfast International and was last served by Jet2.com back in 2013"


Also predicting Berlin, Brussels, Barcelona and Milan. Normally anna.aero are fairly correct in their assumptions.


http://www.anna.aero/2016/01/07/ryanair-announces-new-base-at-belfast-international/

[BFS watcher]

Confirms the BFS growth at 19.7% although City are minus 3.5%.

[HH6702]

Hope they do add ncl as it will give another option to easyjet

[eastern wiseguy]

City are minus 3.5%

That has to be a mistake. There is NO way that being so close to the City Centre and being where everybody wants to fly from and and and and and ad nauseum........ Seems that people DO vote with their wallets.

It will only get better with the arrival of RYR.

Great result BFS .

BHD ...apparently you need to buck your ideas up.

[cuthere]

Great figures indeed. It means the tired, worn, dark, grim terminal will be even worse to spend time in.

Poor form for BHD. Still. Good to see those who mock it now are consistent as they also mocked BFS when its figures nosedived. Oh....er.....hang on.

Should be a great year pax-wise for BFS. Good luck to them (and good luck to those closer to the city centre as well - note lack of capitalisation which is unnecessary. Tut tut).

[GAZMO]

Some impressive figures on the domestic front!

Also AMS up 46%!!!!!! And with increase frequency this summer season are EZY throwing the gauntlet down to KLM??

[josechung]

Great numbers indeed!

Would like there to be ine instance where people wouldnt come and bash BFS 9nce some good news comes along.

Also this hatred towards the terminal is always funny... looks fine to me and im there every week.

[josechung]

Hardly a ringing endorsement of your "often cheaper" assertion if you have "flown twice" and "once" it was cheaper and the second was 25 quid more.

I would dearly love to use BFS however the combination of higher expense and the often long lines at immigration in the USA works against it. The single North American connection on a narrow body also does it no favours.

Dublin is cheaper,more choice,and I can clear immigration before I leave. That lets me get a tighter connection home.

I fly from BFS to the US twice a year for the last 4 years, only once was dublin cheaper and once you take into account bus ticket it was almost neutral. Not to mention having to waste 6 hours of my life on a bus.

Also the flights are always full. I think you're a little delusional when it comes to people being put off by a narrow body plane, clearing immigration in dublin etc etc. People like to fly from a local airport.

[BFS watcher]

Easy out carrying Flybe heavily now on MAN and BHX. EI figures on LGW down 15%. Even the vaunted LHR route down 4%. Interesting times ahead between the 2 airports or will the Boys on the Hill try and level the playing field for their mate.

[eastern wiseguy]

Cuthere

note lack of capitalisation which is unnecessary. Tut tut).


Remind me, are there two G's in BUGGER OFF? :)

[SecondDog]

Cuthere




Remind me, are there two G's in BUGGER OFF? :)

You could also suggest that the sentence should have had a comma after the word capitalisation, otherwise it is a double negative meaning that capitalisation is required? But hey, lets not nit-pick a nit-picker or he will just get nit-pickier.... 😈 #ffspgal

[True Blue]

I don't understand the Bhd figures either. I have been under the impression, based on numerous press releases and other statements, that almost everyone wanted to land at an airport as close to the City Centre as possible. Must be a lot of very stupid passengers, picking the wrong airport.

[eastern wiseguy]

Josechung.

I think you're a little delusional when it comes to people being put off by a narrow body plane, clearing immigration in dublin etc etc. People like to fly from a local airport.

Delusional is a little strong. A 757 is perfect for shorter hops. It is an ordeal for 7 plus hours (unless of course you are NOT in cattle class) . I usually am.

Clearing immigration is a BIG thing if you need a quicker connection and prefer NOT to spend 2 hours plus in line at e.g. EWR.

Price is an important driver. I am aware that people like to support their local airport. I know that I did. However ,if you are a family of four ,then a saving of a few hundred pounds/euros/dollars might just sway you.

What's a bus?

[Husky One]

I used Dub several times last year due price. Ironically it involved flying to LGW or LHR to connect. This year I can't find much difference in price, in fact BFS seems to be slightly cheaper. As for the whole narrow body thing, I don't think the average NI traveller cares much. I find the UA757 reasonably comfortable. A couple of films, a snooze and EWR is upon you. It usually takes about an hour to clear immigration. United's on board service is improving too. VS and BA are far from anything special in economy these days anyway but the best bit is the return leg. It seldom takes more than 6hrs back to BFS. No hanging around for an ill timed connecting flight (or bus) :ok:

[GAZMO]

My last two flights to USA with UA the prices were keen. Immigration on both occasions there was no queue which was surprising.

[owenc]

Belfast to Newark is barely a 7 hour flight, in the summer it is more like 6 hours and 20 minutes - it is barely over 3,000 miles, it only ends up being over 7 hours in the winter due to headwinds, fly to NYC in June or August and you'll not be on there for over 7 hours. Immigration also does not take very long at Newark either, maybe 45 minutes at the most, it's even quicker now anyway as US immigration have introduced new self service machines where you put in all your details and then go to the booth, that speeds it up by like 20 minutes. Obviously you haven't travelled to America anytime recently otherwise you'd know this.

I have flown from Dublin aswell, the facilities are obviously better there but I agree with the other poster, I won't be flying from there again unless the price is massively cheaper, it is not worth it if you are only going to New York.

I have booked to fly from Belfast this June and I am looking forward to flying from my own airport to America and not having to get up at 3am for a 12pm flight.

Also not sure what you are harping on about a narrowbody for? Even Aer Lingus themselves fly narrowbodies to New York now. It's really no big deal to fly a narowbody to New York, it's about 6 hours, all you do is watch a few films and it's over, deal with it. Your not flying to Hong Kong.

Newark doesn't normally have long queues in immigration Gazmo. It's about 20 minutes of queuing.

http://awt.cbp.gov/

The only thing I don't like about United is that when i've used them in economy the American passengers have a tendancy to throw the seat back into your face which can be very restrictive. (don't know why Americans do this but they are pretty much the only nationality/country i've been to where the seatbacks are widely thrown back, even on 2 hour flights)

I haven't noticed that on Aer Lingus.

I just put my luggage in the overhead locker so don't have to stand for ages.

[GAZMO]

Yes Owen, as I said no queue at immigration in January when I last flew to EWR and on the previous occasion likewise. Much improved. Slight wait on the luggage though, but I have no complaints


PS welcome back to the thread

[eastern wiseguy]

OwenC ...you're my hero.Welcome back.

I have read your piece and OBVIOUSLY I am wrong.

I haven't travelled to America? Seriously? I have homes in the US and Ireland. I am writing this in Ohio. (travel tip.....that's in the US)

So I really don't fly the Atlantic often. In fact I do it so rarely that I won't do it again TODAY. Nor will I do it again in April.

Thank you for your useful immigration tips. I am pleased that you managed to obtain your Global Entry pass. As you know these are not available to everyone so kudos to you for passing your ACPO check and traveling enough that makes it worth your while. I haven't bothered with it as (for me) the green card and US citizens lines are generally shorter. Pre clearance though,is my preferred option.

How dare "Americans" recline their seats even on a short flight. You must be a model customer. I seem to recall from your previous outings on this board that you preferred business class so reclining seats intruding on your personal space would really be of minimal concern to you.

I don't think I have never been on a westbound flight which lasted less than seven hours. Moreover when working I rarely saw a flight plan for less than seven hours.

I also prefer at least a twin aisle aircraft. That is purely my choice.

However...every day is a school day.

Anyways folks . I have a flight to catch.

Owenc...have a good day at school.

[cuthere]

Remind me, are there two G's in BUGGER OFF?

Yes. The letter g does appear twice in that word. However, as the plural of home is homes (without apostrophe) so the plural of g is gs (without apostrophe). Maybe if you ask Owenc nicely he'll get some English language textbooks for you. Ones on grammar Owen, if you don't mind.

[SecondDog]

cuthere, you post more grammar guff than aviation bumpf. Very interesting, for a poster who did not capitalise his/her nom de plume. Disappointing!

Eastern, you really are a grumpy bear!

Anyone anything interesting in terms of BFS news? I heard Stansted is a potential FR destination?

[GAZMO]

Would be surprised if FR started STN. With an additional four flights to LGW from March putting on four or so to STN would dilute the yields on the London market. However FR do strange things!

[AerRyan]

FR would be doing it (if they do it) more to kick EZY in the teeth rather than to help themselves.

[GAZMO]

You never know!!!
Looking at EZY website all flights to London on Sunday fully booked from BFS
On Monday 13 of the 15 flights fully booked!!
Certainly room for FR

[cuthere]

Second dog. Where's first dog? As the inferior of first dog, I would prefer to speak to the original.

As for aviation opinion; in the 12 years I've been visiting these forums, I have made my opinions clear, many, many times. Now. As I said. Bring me first dog, as I can't be holed talking to an inferior.

[SecondDog]

That is all you've got? Yikes! I was expecting game........

[cessnarocket]

Make love not war, it's a lot more fun.

[BFS watcher]

Not just London full on Sunday, every other domestic looks pretty full as well. What is going on? Has half term had that much of an effect. Anyway good to see.

[West Brit]

Have EZY increased their seats for S16? There was talk before FR announced. The domestics seem to subservient to the bucket and spade routes the last time I looked.

[GAZMO]

EZY have the same number of aircraft based at BFS , unless extra services from GB aircraft!
For summer 16 increased services to JER, AMS( double daily starting from beginning of season on Mon and Fri) BHX double daily on Tues, Wed and Thurs during July and August. Last year only single.
Don't know if more A320 being used, but maybe someone can advise

[cuthere]

You were expecting game, Dog?! Pheasant? Partridge? Venison?

GAZMO. Any word on BRS being increased? The lack of an evening flight is a right pig.

[SecondDog]

You were expecting game, Dog?! Pheasant? Partridge? Venison?


It certainly seems like a successful hunt 😉

[mart901]

That cuthere is where we need BE back on the route

[cuthere]

Mart, yeah, couldn't agree more. Though they've decimated their Exeter service from daily to three weekly. The amount of capacity to the southwest of England and South Wales from NI is very poor indeed. Perhaps FR will take on BRS.

[GAZMO]

Cuthere
No idea about BRS. Going by CAA stats they are increasing loads every month so maybe

[BFS BHD]

I see Neo are to operate the Verona service from Belfast International Airport for Thomson Lakes and Mountains for Summer 2016.

Times:
BELFAST (ALDERGROVE)
Dep: 15:35 Arr: 19:20

VERONA
Dep: 13:00 Arr: 14:45

Operated by a B737-800.

[GAZMO]

Going to be a very busy day Sunday on the domestic front
All EZY flights to mainland fully booked. Even on Monday very similar!!

[SecondDog]

Going to be a very busy day Sunday on the domestic front
All EZY flights to mainland fully booked. Even on Monday very similar!!

Yeah becoming a common occurence. Even loads through the week are good. Let's hope it is a sign that there is potential growth available and that FR or an existing operator will be able to tap it.

[AerRyan]

Yield being the key consideration in routes.

[GAZMO]

Agree Aerryan, but if the flights are full I assume yields should be good as well. I think the yield management guys are good at their job

[MerchantVenturer]

Any word on BRS being increased? The lack of an evening flight is a right pig.

Please accept my apologies if I've mis-read your sentiments but looking at the easyJet booking engine for next week there appear to be evening flights every day except Saturday.

Next week for example there are three rotations on Monday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday with two on both Tuesday and Wednesday and one on Saturday.

On every day except Saturday there is a flight that leaves BRS at 1910, arriving BFS 2020, returning from BFS at 2045 to arrive back at BRS at 2150.

Looking at the summer timetable I checked random weeks in April, June and July and the number of rotations each day is the same as next week with evening flights again on every day except Saturday, although Monday admittedly is more of a late afternoon/early evening rotation.

The times are on Mondays dep BRS 1650, arrive BFS 1800, returning from BFS at 1825 to arrive BRS 1930. On Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays the flight leaves BRS at 2000 and arrives BFS at 2110, returning from BFS at 2135 to arrive BRS at 2240. On Sundays all timings for the evening rotation are 20 minutes later.

BRS-NCL which for many years roughly mirrored BRS-BFS in numbers and timings of U2 rotations is much worse. It's impossible to do a day trip now because of the timings with two days each week showing three rotations all of which operate in the afternoon/evening.

[cuthere]

Thanks Merchant, the earlier flights on a Monday are indeed very handy. However, for those of us with an up to three hours of travel (using public transport), arriving into BFS at 21.10 on a workday isn't great. I've often found that flight delayed as well, it being at the end of a multi-sector day.

If they had a late afternoon/wary evening flight get everyday, that would be brilliant.

[BFS BHD]

Appears to go up to 5 daily from the end of October. Appearing on the Ryanair app.

[belfastmark]

Appears to go up to 5 daily from the end of October. Appearing on the Ryanair app.


Looks like it's by a Bfs based aircraft too. Great news. I wonder when the other routes will be launched?

[FRatSTN]

Looks like it's by a Bfs based aircraft too

Well that's expected, LGW isn't a FR base.

[speedrestriction]

Well that's expected, LGW isn't a FR base.

Wouldn't necessarily need to be as they could fly a W pattern on say a DUB/ORK based aircraft if it was advantageous in terms of aircraft or slot utilisation. I'm not saying that they will, only that they could use a non-based aircraft.

[AerRyan]

A W from ORK which only has 1 return flight a day anyway?

Ryanair usually seem to prefer to set up bases when possible.

[sarcon]

I hear that all will be announced next week by MOL and that Berlin, Milan and Brussels will be among the routes announced.

[HH6702]

Hoping for BFS /NCL TOO

[GAZMO]

If it is going to be two extra aircraft then I think a few extra routes,. Anna.aero is suggesting NCL, LBA and EMA

[DC9_10]

According to the Flybe share price chat page, one of the issues affecting the currently low price (69p) as of today, is low load factors and revenue on the Bhd to Man/Bhx routes. If and when FR announce Lba and or Ema, I would suggest that could also have a further impact. Depending on which Brussels airport FR announce, could also be the crux of how long the Brussels Airlines service lasts at Bhd. Maybe Brian may ask aunty Arlene for a few grand more of taxpayers money to extend it. Just sayin.

[GAZMO]

I think FR are looking more at the primary airports, so I think They will be head to head with Brussels Airlines. If so I cannot see them lasting too long in the NI market, but you never know!!
Anyone know what day announcement will be made. FR just announced new routes from GLA and PIK today so hopefully BFS will be soon

[mart901]

Yeah and 6-8 months later after pushing SN out FR pull off because they cant fill a 738. Having spent years trying to get the route, seen it all before, SN don't fly to DUB so take that as FR saying get off our turf. That said some really good connections with SN, cheaper than BA or KLM which might stand them in good stead, they are on sale into winter currently.

[BFS watcher]

MOL in Belfast for a lunchtime speech on the 3rd of March. Rumours seem to back up Sarcon with the addition of lots more Stansted and EMA as well. Rumour in the travel trade that SN Brussels not booking well as people waiting for the FR launch of Brussels. Let battle commence.

[elle may clampit]

I take it that Ryanair are getting the same level of support for their new European routes that Vueling, KLM and SN Brussels got on their 'new' and not so new routes.

[EI-BUD]

I really cannot see the logic in NCL. Ryanair only have a token operation there and their Dublin route is as it stands only 1 daily except Fri and Sunday where there are 2. Jan saw 15K pax on the route and that was shared with AerLingus Regional.

The timing of the Brussels route is not opportune for Brussels Airlines. Not only has capacity on the Dublin route doubled with Ryanair adding Zaventum last year, but they maintained Charleroi and fares are eye wateringly low. The ARJ will be difficult to fill especially since it is starting from scratch and the added competition that is likely from Ryanair. Great to see BHD getting the BRU link but the level of connecting traffic that can be achieved is at best questionable.

The arrival of FR on EMA and LBA spells ruin for BE on the respective routes from BHD unless FR only have a daily token offering, but my guess is that they will do morning and evening. I'd expect to see 9.99 and 19.99 each way and widely available.

Upon reflection based on the current BE fleet size of 77, if 9 are based at BHD and as an arbitrary estimate 2 more are occupied serving BHD from based in GB, that would mean that 11/77, so 1/7 of the fleet committed to BHD, which is a very significant portion of their business. FR could make a serious impact on their operation...

[mart901]

Almost undoubtedly elle

[BFS watcher]

I doubt it very much..........

[AIRPORT66]

When does the money for starting up new air routes from northern ireland start,is Ryanair not entitled to some of that money when it becomes available.

[DC9_10]

Airport 66

Apparently it started with KLM receiving funding for the NEW Belfast to Amsterdam service. Then Vueling for the New Barcelona service and now Brussels also. I wonder if Vueling have to hand their deposit back though.

[OneBellEnd]

Think for the mix of sector lengths needed Ryanair Belfast Brussels is a racing certainty.

[True Blue]

When the Milan route appeared briefly on the app, it was an early morning departure from Belfast. IF they are going to do an early morning and evening to the likes of Lba and Ema, would this indicate that some of these routes would have to be flown by non-based aircraft? One aircraft will be doing Lgw, one may be doing 2 a week to Milan, that doesn't leave room for early departures to the likes of the two airports I mentioned by Bfs based aircraft every week day.

TB

[OneBellEnd]

Might only be serving one of these to begin with??

[owenc]

I really cannot see the logic in NCL. Ryanair only have a token operation there and their Dublin route is as it stands only 1 daily except Fri and Sunday where there are 2. Jan saw 15K pax on the route and that was shared with AerLingus Regional.

The timing of the Brussels route is not opportune for Brussels Airlines. Not only has capacity on the Dublin route doubled with Ryanair adding Zaventum last year, but they maintained Charleroi and fares are eye wateringly low. The ARJ will be difficult to fill especially since it is starting from scratch and the added competition that is likely from Ryanair. Great to see BHD getting the BRU link but the level of connecting traffic that can be achieved is at best questionable.

The arrival of FR on EMA and LBA spells ruin for BE on the respective routes from BHD unless FR only have a daily token offering, but my guess is that they will do morning and evening. I'd expect to see 9.99 and 19.99 each way and widely available.

Upon reflection based on the current BE fleet size of 77, if 9 are based at BHD and as an arbitrary estimate 2 more are occupied serving BHD from based in GB, that would mean that 11/77, so 1/7 of the fleet committed to BHD, which is a very significant portion of their business. FR could make a serious impact on their operation...
Dublin isn't Northern Ireland though. Newcastle is very popular with Northern Irish students.

[owenc]

Thomas Cook will operate Orlando weekly next summer.

https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/generated/timetable_S2017.pdf

[GAZMO]

Orlando I think is only weekly late June to July?

Yes Owen Newcastle great place, but not just for students

[BFS BHD]

Yup only two flights are appearing for S17 at the minute down from the four flights this year.

First departs Thursday 29th June and the other Thursday 6th July.

Still plenty of time to add other flights but...

[GAZMO]

Just checked TCX airlines website and I make it four flights to MCO over three week period!

[mart901]

FR have now announced LGW is going 5x daily from winter

[True Blue]

Referring back to questions about FR's attitude to APD, raised a few days back. Judging by the number of new/expanded routes they are announcing all over the UK currently, they seem to have decided that APD is no longer as important a factor. So hardly a factor in their decision making for Bfs, I would have thought.