BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL

[BFS BHD]

If Easyjet are announcing new routes should they not hurry and put them on sale before it gets to close to Christmas? Leaving it very late.

[GAZMO]

I believe EZY will have the full summer 16 schedule finalised this week, possibly by tomorrow

[BFS BHD]

Cheers GAZMO.

Passenger stats increased by 17.64% for November.
Passenger growth to continue | Belfast International... (http://www.belfastairport.com/blog-news/2015/december/passenger-growth-to-continue)

Our growth momentum should see us hit 4.6 million passengers next year.

[GAZMO]

Very good increase in pax and should continue into 2016
Wonder what can be read into "if projects come to fruition"....... Interesting!!
Maybe more rumours to come on this thread? Maybe new WIZZ route?

Thought it might be more than 4.6 million next year. By time end of December comes I thought the figure would be about 4.4 million (currently 4.3 million for last 12 rolling months)

[cuthere]

From Irish Independent Business section:

#Ryanair aiming to open a base in Belfast next year, boss Michael O'Leary tells Dublin Chamber of Commerce lunch


Doesn't clear up which one.

[BFS BHD]

Is there room at BHD to base any more aircraft? Are there not two Flybe Dash 8s already have to be parked on the old apron at night during the summer?
Surely if its a base it will be BFS?

[BFS BHD]

Some changes (From a week in October 2016.):

Amsterdam: 2 flights now on Thursdays.
Lanzarote: On sale, 1 weekly on a Saturday, though the summer too. On the A319!
Malaga: 2 daily on Saturday from Saturday 10th September?

Could be other changes there but thats all I see.

[ILS25]

Jamie DeLargy mentioned FR coming back on the UTV news, he said it will more than likely be BFS ;)

[GAZMO]

Can understand upping the frequency on AMS, as numbers are doing well on this route and keeping ACE but second Saturday flight to AGP when the summer season is easing off?
Anyone know what is replacing the midweek ACE slot?

[BFS BHD]

@ILS25: Jamie DeLargy mentioned FR coming back on the UTV news, he said it will more than likely be BFS ;)

Julian O'Neill (BBC NI Business Correspondent) is also talking about Ryanair today on Twitter:
Prior to whatever O'Leary has said at lunch to Dublin chamber, speculation has been of 5-6 Ryanair routes from Belfast next year.

[True Blue]

On UTV news he claimed he knew for certain that it would be Bfs, I watched it myself.

[sarcon]

Believe it will be two routes to start, one we know for sure and the other also London, with 5 more by winter '16, most of which will be by aircraft based at other locations.

[BFS BHD]

Seems like O'Leary wants a 'Large Base' in Belfast.

Mr O'Leary added: "Very shortly I hope we will be announcing a base in Belfast.

"We will be expanding into Belfast and making it another large base in Ireland and the UK."

Ryanair all set for Belfast return and a cut in fares - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/ryanair-all-set-for-belfast-return-and-a-cut-in-fares-34277439.html)

[Husky One]

Very surprised that BFS would bite the orange hand that feeds it by allowing that level of competition on the London routes especially given the current frequency of services to and from LGW and STN. If true easyJet will either scale down their NI operations or start moving domestic services to the City (or both). Either scenario gives little benefit to the traveling public or BFS.

[stab3.5up]

I agree but ops from BHD are too restrictive for FR I would have thought. Would FR do BFS and LDY!

[GAZMO]

If FR go for BFS I think they might move FAO and ALC to BFS but probably keep other domestic at LDY

[AIRPORT66]

Husky one if Easyjet were successful and got there hands on the slots to Lgw, what airport would they have used to use these slots,they fly along side Ryanair from other airports why not Belfast if it happens.

[Husky One]

Because Easyjet already fly to LGW 6 times a day and with pretty good fares. They wouldn't put more services on. All Ryanair will do is perform their aviation cuckoo act..come in and blitz with a few months of price war hoping to remove the opposition so they can charge what they like. Easyjet won't dump the route but they'll certainly react in a way which suits them. That could mean redeployment of aircraft to other bases (incl BHD if feasible). The yield gets reduced the route becomes mediocre for all operators. BFS needs another LGW route like the city centre needs another bus lane.

[West Brit]

Bfs would be mad to encourage FR to begin on LGW and STN as the only routes until winter 2016. Would that not be termed 'commercial suicide'. Of course maybe something else big is on the cards which would give BFS a little more courage. When is the announcement ref 'seats for sale' due?

[cuthere]

Maybe MO'L visited Aldergrove and found it to be perfect. Trek to the city centre, especially at rush hour. Dated terminal (still love the wooden signs they hang up at the gates).

Joking aside (and I'm assuming Airport66 was being her usual self with the lack of punctuation etc, and a question mark was missing rather than it be a rhetorical question), what are BFS management thinking?! EZY have been their bread and butter for years. Now FR are being encouraged in to compete not only on EZY's most popular domestic routes, but apparently also on their bucket and spade routes.

I reckon one should stay clear of the pram as there will be toys exiting at high speed soon enough.

[True Blue]

Ezy and Fr operate side by side at many airports. Why would Bfs be any different? If Ezy believed that they would always have a clear run at Bfs, they must be deluded. Additionally, I have posted on a number of occasions that I believed that Ezy were holding back growth at Bfs by restricting capacity. This winter they up capacity and look at the growth result for Bfs, even for only a couple of months. Bfs should not allow any airline to put them in that situation and to that end, will have to also watch the might of FR.

[cuthere]

Westbrit. Name an airport with the catchment of BFS that has successful substantial route networks from both FR and EZY. I think you'll struggle.

[West Brit]

cuthere, I find it insulting when you don't address me properly, my name is West Brit. You should always use correct spelling and grammar AT ALL TIMES. (PS I don't give a toss about correct grammar or spelling)


Why would you ask me that question? however I could answer with BRS, LPL.... etc

[BFS watcher]

Looks like BHD will be in big trouble if FR go into BFS. The recent BHD re financing was pretty tough from all accounts with tight commitments to the banks. If BHD don't get FR they stand to lose 200k pax which must be a substantial bit of revenue. Add that to uncertainty over what IAG will do with Aer Lingus in BHD and the lights are on late in the BHD management offices. Word was that some senior BA suits were spotted in the Medway recently. We live in interesting times, maybe the new BFS shareholders are doing something right.

[cuthere]

Apologies West Brit.

Your answer proves you've no idea what you're talking about. The Liverpool Metro Area has a population of over 1.5 million. That's before you take into account north Wales and parts of Lancs. Similarly the Bristol Metro Area has a population of over 1 million. That's before you count south Wales, Devon and Cornwall. To compare the catchment of those airports to BFS is laughable. Add in the fact that Northern Ireland is an economic backwater and you have an unsustainable supply should EZY expand as you wish and FR also turn up. I haven't even mentioned DUB.

As for grammar and spelling. Perhaps we should abandon it completely and we could all come across as idiots.

[West Brit]

BFS serves 1.8 million, LPL has MAN just across the way.....

[ILS25]

Was FR not talking to Virgin and Norwegian about the possibility of code share long haul from LGW or have they scrapped the code share idea?

[BFS BHD]

Hearing Ryanair may not be announcing the new Belfast routes to after New Year! Is that not leaving it very late?

[ILS25]

Hearing Ryanair may not be announcing the new Belfast routes to after New Year! Is that not leaving it very late?

Heard it should be early next week. Fingers crossed.

[BFS BHD]

Heard it should be early next week. Fingers crossed.

I hope your right! :eek: New Year would be very late even for Ryanair!

[EI-BUD]

If true that it is BFS, the challenge for BHD will be the loss of the 20K pax per month or a little less by Aer Lingus on the LGW route and the new Ryanair service will dip into the economy passenger on LHR and LCY routes, however, Ryanair will grow the market substantially. City may hold its numbers on LHR and LCY, but the airlines may need to play a little harder on price to maintain the numbers, hence hit more to yield. BHD will also have growth on Euro routes and in turn off set some of the loss of LGW and that coupled with A320 upgrade on LHR for EI may be a good counter measure.


The challenge is if FR start opening up the UK routes like EMA, GLA, BRS, LPL etc. In these instances, Flybe may suffer somewhat. EasyJet may well reappear at BHD in some guise.. though they cannot afford to cut and run, FR are putting it up to them in various locations more than ever, e.g. STN - GLA and EDI, where EZY are holding firm.


BFS are taking a gamble. The choice is for them, allow BHD to get FR back and put significant strain on the numbers and growth as happened in 2008, or take FR in and see what happens ... It may be a gamble worth taking.

[El Bunto]

Was FR not talking to Virgin and Norwegian about the possibility of code share long haul from LGW or have they scrapped the code share idea?

There was a mention on airliners.net earlier this week that the talks had petered-out because Ryanair wasn't going to make any acommodation for missed connections.

~~

Russian-reg Tu-204 freighter on the cargo stands this morning. Would be a nice photo-op if the BIA PR team caught a photo of the United 757 taxying past it...

[SealinkBF]

There was a mention on airliners.net earlier this week that the talks had petered-out because Ryanair wasn't going to make any acommodation for missed connections.

I would have thought that the first thing FR would do would be to create connectivity to their own services, as FlyBe currently do.

[shoe shine]

Ryanair are still playing a good game keeping DUB and both Belfast airports guessing and no doubt revising offers and increasing level of support.

[GAZMO]

Anybody know reason why BA1414 diverted to BFS this morning?

[ILS25]

Ryanair are still playing a good game keeping DUB and both Belfast airports guessing and no doubt revising offers and increasing level of support. Agreed. I'd imagine Peter Robinsons mobile will be permanently plugged into the charger with the amount of phone calls he'd be getting from Mr A.

[stab3.5up]

Weather at BHD

[West Brit]

I suppose an advantage of FR operating out of a Belfast airport is the possibility of taking the cream off Dublin. For instance an aggressive Belfast/Copenhagen service may just be enough to knock one of the other operators off Dublin Copenhagen, advantage FR and Belfast!

[BFS Dude]

Any news on the Ryanair announcement this week? Seen up the thread a bit it is due early this week.

[ILS25]

An announcement is expected early this week but I wouldn't put any bets on. And you never know it could be BHD

[BFS Dude]

Thank you ILS25 for the information.

[EI-BUD]

West Brit,

Nice thinking though the example of Copenhagen, well already an airline is knocked off the route, Aer Lingus is axing the route at end of March, and that sector will be the most stopped and restarted route in EI network...

Belfast is much more seasonal than Dublin, and rely's on local traffic much more than Dublin does. Ie Dublin gets plenty of inbound tourism...Though with FR low fares Belfast could see a change in that area...

[Husky One]

Ryanair in BFS today looking for a crew room apparently. Here we go :(

[shoe shine]

Husky, were they at BFS today, could have done it in one trip yesterday, when they were at city.

[Husky One]

Great - hope they prefer the wee airport then.

[BFS BHD]

Aircraft charter and maintenance company, Woodgate Aviation, is to almost double the size of its new hangar in a further £1.5 million investment at Belfast International Airport.

A planning application to build a 27,000-sq ft extension has been lodged with Antrim and Newtownabbey Borough Council after enjoying 'a year of unprecedented growth' across all main business sectors.

Woodgate Aviation will create five new engineering and office jobs as part of the ambitious expansion plan.

Work will get underway on Phase Two once the company receives planning approval. The project will bring to £3.5 million the amount invested by Woodgate Aviation over a three-year period.

Woodgate Aviation Managing Director, John Keen, says Phase Two is demand-led after the 33,000 sq. ft Phase One hangar became fully committed well ahead of growth projections.

Mr Keen said: "In addition to our own aircraft, and the certified maintenance work we carry out for a growing number of clients, we've also managed to secure new jet aircraft business with every likelihood that more will follow in early 2016.

More Here: Woodgate Aviation (http://www.woodair.com/air-charter/phase-2/)

[BFS BHD]

So Ryanair still haven't made their minds up yet on which airport to operate from? :rolleyes:

[ILS25]

Yes, nothing yet. I'll admit I was wrong about the early week announcement, or my source of information was wrong but I suppose this is a rumour forum.
We will just have to wait until FR do a press release I guess.

[left rudder]

MOL expected at City of Derry tomorrow
Rumour is CODA to be renamed Belfast Eglinton........

[ILS25]

Not Lough Foyle International ?

[SealinkBF]

My preference is Northern Ireland Airport ;)

[cuthere]

Hahaha! Laugh Foyle Int? Derry city centre to LDY: 7.6 miles.
Belfast City Centre to Aldergrove: 18.1 miles (both from Google). 'Nuff said.

Is this latest story about anything FR-related as likely to prove correct as all the preceding stories about FR? A Christmas Tale.

[BFS101]

CAA preliminary stats are in for November, and seems a pretty good performance for BFS.

Passengers up 18.2% month on month, and 7.6% rolling year.

BHD down very slightly 1.5% month on month, but still up 5.6% rolling year.

Competition would also appear to be healthy, with EZY AMS up 23% even with KLM at the city, and KRK up 47% with the Wizz competition to Katowice.

All the domestics are up in double figures with the exception of Birmingham, up 8%. And potentially for the first time, more passengers using EZY to BHX than BE.

Long may it continue, and hopefully positive growth for BHD again in Dec.

[EI-BUD]

Great performance alright, and KRK seeing airbus320 too on some rotations! The increased London schedule paying off too...

[flying officer kite]

After the shame of naming an airport after an alcoholic, my friends always jokingly referred to the others as the Gloria Hunniford airport, and Nadine Coyle International Space Station!

[ILS25]

That's a decent increase in PX at BFS. Long may it continue !

[Belboy]

Has MOL turned up at COD yet?

[West Brit]

This growth is all very well, but what happens in S16? If BFS don't get a new operator or have a substantial increase in rotations by an existing operator then growth will run flat from April onwards.

[BFS BHD]

No sign of Corfu, Rhodes or Heraklion for summer 2016 yet?

[ILS25]

Has MOL turned up at COD yet?

No, spent most of the day at St Angelo I think.

[SealinkBF]

No, spent most of the day at St Angelo I think.

Haha, wouldn't that be a turn up for the books!

Enniskillen International. Gateway to, well, actually lots of tourist places!!!

PS - I heard he went to Newtownards...

[ILS25]

It's closer to Belfast than Aldergrove. You never know.

I honestly thought there would have been an announcement by now. 2016 coming in fast, won't be long until March they would need to get the seats for sale. Have FR even got the LGW slots ?

[GAZMO]

If the FR announcement comes early next week it will be a Xmas gift to one the Belfast airports? Which one?

[ILS25]

I would hazard a guess that Arlene Foster will be getting a huge christmas present from Santa Ambrose

[El Bunto]

PS - I heard he went to Newtownards...
Definitely not! Can you imagine the tuts of disapproval if a 737 rolled-up on the apron instead of a Proper Aeroplane like a 172...?

;)

[carlrsymington]

I grew up in Newtownards & have flown from the airfield several times which kind of explains the aircraft thing but more importantly.
I flew to Paris (Beauvais) with Ryanair around 1996/7 and I was totally bemused to be taxying in a B737 -200(?) past Jodels \ Robins\ C152 etc.
It felt just like a landing at Ards (International):}

[GAZMO]

Two FR diversions into BFS this morning. Maybe practising for big announcement!!!

[flying officer kite]

Definitely not! Can you imagine the tuts of disapproval if a 737 rolled-up on the apron instead of a Proper Aeroplane like a 172...?

;)

Or a 177, eh El Bunto ;)

[stab3.5up]

Well Silver City used Newtownards on flights to I think Castle Kennedy did they not in the 50's I think. On another note I take that Enniskillen no longer has a licence for airline operations any longer?

[GAZMO]

Think they gave the licence up a long time ago. However I do remember the time when there was a summer flight from JER via St Angelo to LDY

[BFS BHD]

What's happening to this route for Summer 2016 with Thomson? Appears to be off sale. Are they going to replace it with another route?

[El Bunto]

Enniskillen / St Angelo and Newtownards both still have public transport airfield licenses ( pre-requisite for charter ops ) but fire cover is the main restriction.

St Angelo is Cat 1 but can arrange Cat 3* on prior request. Ards is, as far as I know, Cat 1 but has had on-site cover from International for special events.

Of course, pre-war Newtownards used to be the airport for Belfast and the DH.89s would approach up the Lough dragging their radio antenna above the water as a proto-GPWS :) Unfortunately the water often continued up and over the runway.

* up to about Do-228 Srs 200 size

[OneBellEnd]

BFS BHD

Hardly surprising if SSH were to disappear in the circumstances for summer 16.

TOM dropped Las Palmas for a new Rhodes next summer. Sensible thing to do probably to reinstate the LPA instead of the Sharm?

[EI-A330-300]

Read elsewhere that LPA has been reinstated ex DUB in place of SSH, will likely happen here as well.

[BFS watcher]

Looks like Easyjet have added even more capacity for summer. I hear somewhere north of 200K of seats.

[EI-A330-300]

Prehaps this is a message to BFS to keep FR out?

[True Blue]

Where has it been added, see much difference in the schedules?

[AIRPORT66]

Olympic holidays are not doing Rhodes,Corfu,Crete in 2016,they will just be doing Cyprus and Corfu using seat allocations on Thomson and Thomascook,reason Aegean have no spare aircraft to operate the flights.

[BFS BHD]

Cheers for the replies.

[garybell]

Whisperjet circling Aldergrove at the minute. Any ideas why?

[SealinkBF]

Bizarre! Have been watching it's movements on an app...

[cuthere]

You know pilots. Do you reckon they need to train landing and taking off to keep current every now and again? Or, do you know aeroplanes. Do you reckon they need to be flown every now and again to make sure they're all good?

Come on guys. It's clearly a training and/or tech flight. Thankfully there's plenty of space between movements at BFS to facilitate this.

[Straightahead]

True Blue
Hardly no difference in the Easyjet schedules,most of these 200,000 seats will be extra capacity with A320s

[Straightahead]

Cityjet crew training for a few hours

[BFS watcher]

I see Arlene is not being parochial at all, air ambulance for Fermanagh, really sensible. Has BFS annoyed Mrs Foster as well as Mr Robinson?

[GAZMO]

BFS is probably the best location for air ambulance as it could reach all parts of NI within 20/30 mins.
No more rumours on FR at BFS!!

[stab3.5up]

Re FR. 5 AC from April

[BFS BHD]

Re FR. 5 AC from April

Really? When will it be announced?

[GAZMO]

Might just be five free stands???

[SecondDog]

Might just be five free stands???

Might just give the impetus required to head East with the apron and create some form of walkway over the top of the Jet Assist centre.

[ILS25]

Lounge capacity could be a problem during busy periods.

[GAZMO]

If it happens good excuse to expand lounge!!!

[BFS BHD]

Sharm El Sheikh flight is being replaced by a extra Tenerife flight on a Wednesday.

Departure - 13:55-18:25
Arrival - 19:25-23:45

Tenerife now operates Wednesday and Sunday.

Merry Christmas! :)

[SecondDog]

Merry Xmas to you all (even you BHD folk 😇) Hope you are all off work and full as a poe!

[shoe shine]

Not sure that BFS have fallen out with Arlene or Peter its just that so many of our so called 'leaders' take such a parochial out look on life and take what they can to reinforce their own power base and secure their vote for the next election. Any sensible person knows the air ambulance should be based at BFS, but as politicians rarely fall into that category and as they will make the decision, I believe Fermanagh will get an air ambulance next year. Unless of course, post the election, Martin is First Minister and the Health portfolio is held by someone else.

[EI-BUD]

EasyJet had a very successful month in November ex BFS in terms of passenger numbers in line with increases in capacity. Some standout performances.


EasyJet’s overall share of the overall Belfast London market reached 54% giving them a majority. This compares to 48% for the same month last year.
Gatwick, Luton and Stansted grew by 22%, 36% and 14% respectively.
For the first time they carried the majority of passengers on the Belfast to Birmingham and Manchester routes, with 50.23% and 53.47% market shares respectively. These compare with 41.14% and 42.94% same month last year.
Newcastle saw very significant growth (22% or an extra almost 4k pax in the month v LY). The Flybe service ex BHD carried 1504 pax in the month at a 40% decline, this compares to 20.5K pax per month for easyJet. The easyJet growth would appear to be presenting a challenge to Flybe service.
All other domestic routes performed well with growth over same month last year.
Total easyJet numbers on non domestics did well up on last year, though hard to put a number on it as the new Lanzarote route is shared with Jet2. Despite the new KLM BHD route to Amsterdam, easyJet saw excellent growth on their Amsterdam route....

[mart901]

Good on easyJet, as a regular user I notice quite a lot of what I'd call predatory pricing, I've done BHX for £41-£43 return quite a few times on packed out aircraft. What I've also noticed over the years is BE tend to claw it back further along, currently they seem to be putting a lot of their BHD eggs into the Scottish basket, increasing all routes at the expense of others such as BHX frequency. BE have remained static pricing wise, to their detriment I feel.
All I can say is if FR come onto the domestic scene in any major way we will see more growth in pax and decline in fares.

[El Bunto]

Any sensible person knows the air ambulance should be based at BFS

It's not quite as 'obvious' as that. Basing in Belfast seems geographically logical but because of the skewed population distribution in NI it would actually amplify current disparities.

Fermanagh, Tyrone and Derry currently have the lowest patient survival rates because of distance and less-accessible routes ( as a result of lower population density and more rural distribution ). Therefore, basing an air ambulance at St Angelo would make sense since it reduces the outbound empty-leg time to the point of patient stabilisation and transfer.

For the eastern counties, conventional road-bound triage and stabilisation is much faster on-scene and the air ambulance would primarily be for the transfer process.

[SecondDog]

It's not quite as 'obvious' as that. Basing in Belfast seems geographically logical but because of the skewed population distribution in NI it would actually amplify current disparities.

Fermanagh, Tyrone and Derry currently have the lowest patient survival rates because of distance and less-accessible routes ( as a result of lower population density and more rural distribution ). Therefore, basing an air ambulance at St Angelo would make sense since it reduces the outbound empty-leg time to the point of patient stabilisation and transfer.

For the eastern counties, conventional road-bound triage and stabilisation is much faster on-scene and the air ambulance would primarily be for the transfer process.

Given the BFS location is fairly central, it makes more sense to me. Don't forget that some of the Eastern counties have some of the most inaccessible terrain in the country. The difference from St angelo to Cushendall compared with BFS as an origin might make the difference in a serious accident. Still, there is room for discussion, I will give you that.

[GAZMO]

Anyone know when FR announcement is likely to be made?

[justmaybe]

Four/Five aircraft based BFS from end of March 2015.

[BFS BHD]

justmaybe; Four/Five aircraft based BFS from end of March 2015.

Guessing you mean 2016... ;)

[BFS Dude]

Any idea when Ryanair will announce the new base from Belfast International? If its from March 2016 I'm guessing it will be in the next 1-2 weeks?

[SecondDog]

Some very confident predictions there. Does anyone actually know anything yet. What says the Watcher?

[GAZMO]

I think a lot of guessing. Should never predict what FR will do until it is announced

[OneBellEnd]

Shortish Paddy Power odds on 1 Aircraft, 1 Route.

[ILS25]

^^^ This. To start off anyway.

[BFS BHD]

More guessing???

[tigger2k8]

I have heard the same as a few here from some who work there, so take with a pinch of salt... Until the first A/C lands it might never happen.. as we found out before with Iceland a few years back if I remember.

Coming to BFS, End of March 2016, Plan of 4/5 based A/C however not known if this will start off with 1 A/C or even using a W pattern with another stations A/C.. Announcement due shortly after New Year

I am just wondering (not trying to start a mega debate, so don't jump) will they continue operating from LDY if the above happens?

[cuthere]

Who knows? They operated successfully out of BHD back in the day, and at the same time LDY's numbers increased.

I've always said that FR hold LDY to ransom (runway extension etc), whilst delivering little. I'd prefer EI-Regional or BE to serve the likes of LPL, BHX, GLA etc and FR to do the bucket and spade routes.

That would leave FR to run merry riot at BFS. I flew BFS to BRS on Sunday evening (the 16.30 departure - arriving to the airport at 15.10 to see a BRS departure at 15.30 gave me a fright!), and was pleased to see how busy it was. However, security was shocking. I got through at about 15.45. No laptop. No toiletries (I buy those airside), and there were quite a few elderly people visibly panicking about missing their STN flight.

Now, I appreciate the place was busy because of Christmas, but surely this wasn't a surprise for the airport. Furthermore, only three of the available x-ray machines were operational. Pathetic.

Once airside, all was well......until the panicked "last call" announcements for a plane that had not even landed.

All-in-all any sudden expansion by FR at either airport would utterly bugger them at peak times. I know. LDY is not busy. Put two FR flights through it within 30 mins to an hour, and it is carnage.

FR, whether they end up at BHD or BFS, will be a double-edged sword.

[justmaybe]

I have heard the same as a few here from some who work there, so take with a pinch of salt... Until the first A/C lands it might never happen.. as we found out before with Iceland a few years back if I remember.

Coming to BFS, End of March 2016, Plan of 4/5 based A/C however not known if this will start off with 1 A/C or even using a W pattern with another stations A/C.. Announcement due shortly after New Year

I am just wondering (not trying to start a mega debate, so don't jump) will they continue operating from LDY if the above happens?

As I am given to understand, plans are to consolidate ops at BFS

[True Blue]

IF that happens, could we see the end of Ldy?

[cuthere]

The end of LDY?! Hahahaha! Blue. You need to lay off it. Neither Derry, nor Belfast City airports are going anywhere.

Now. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming your question wasn't purile garbage, you meant the "end of FR at LDY", then no. They've been selling STN/GLA/LPL/FAO flights for the summer season for months. Still, being an expert in NI aviation, I'm sure you know this already.

[True Blue]

So, explain how the economics work out if FR departs Ldy? Knowing very little about NI aviation, I assume FR accounts for a very large percentage of LDY's commercial income. I am not including whatever subsidy Ldy might get from local council. Who would be the main users of Ldy should FR depart?

[cuthere]

No, you explain how one of the most ruthless airlines in the world has operated from LDY since July 1999. Then explain why now is such a good time to turn up at BFS (whilst abandoning LDY) and how this won't affect EZY (see my clever bringing it back to thread mechanism?).

[BFS Dude]

So a announcement is definitely happening in the next week or two? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[speedbirdATC]

If FR start to 'ruffle the feathers' of EZY, then I wonder how long it would be before we see the big orange tails at LDY?

[SealinkBF]

The end of LDY?! Hahahaha! Blue. You need to lay off it. Neither Derry, nor Belfast City airports are going anywhere.

Now. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming your question wasn't purile garbage, you meant the "end of FR at LDY", then no. They've been selling STN/GLA/LPL/FAO flights for the summer season for months. Still, being an expert in NI aviation, I'm sure you know this already.


There's a long list of airports who assumed FR weren't going anywhere!

[CabinCrewe]

BFS-GLA with FR, talk about overkill, surely they could do better than that. Its a limited market with finite populations which would result in dilutions. A 738 in addition to BE and EZY quite a lot to fill. Be innovative!

[GAZMO]

If FR do move into the Belfast market then I can certainly see GLA, LPL, LON and possibly EMA on the domestic scene

[Waldo1]

What's with the wassaya flights to Paris every day?

[BFS BHD]

Any update on when RYR are announcing Belfast? Got to be in the next few weeks if LGW is starting around the end of March?

[El Bunto]

What's with the wassaya flights to Paris every day?

Err, not sure what you mean ( looks like predictive text failure! ) but if you're referring to the Swiftair Brasilia to / from Paris then that's common during holiday periods, it goes straight to the FedEx Euro hub instead of meeting the feed at Birmingham.

Should be back to normal next week.

[SealinkBF]

BFS-GLA with FR, talk about overkill, surely they could do better than that. Its a limited market with finite populations which would result in dilutions. A 738 in addition to BE and EZY quite a lot to fill. Be innovative!

FR don't need to be innovative if they start from BFS. Just cheaper than EZY. Flood the market then mop up when the competition on the route gives up. FR have done it before.

[shoe shine]

Announcement due mid week?

[EI-BUD]

Respectfully Cuthere, if FR exited LDY the case for keeping the airport open is questionable. As it stands the airport is nowhere near economically viable with the support of the local Derry/Strabane subsidy. At approx 300k pax per annum it has a way to go to make the numbers stack. I'm not entirely sure if FR would up sticks. So it is a fair question on TrueBlue's part as to what could happen if FR exited.

While LDY has its own thread, the NI airports compete heavily hence completely on thread to discuss other airports as a knock on interconnected theme to that of BFS... Or BHD for that matter...

Happy New Year to one and all on the forum...!

[BHD2BFS]

I appreciate this may be in the wrong thread but if ryanair do decide to leave LDY and open a large operation at BFS I wonder if Flybe would look at having another attempt at LDY.
I know they tried MAN a few years ago but the airline is in a different position now under new management and seem to be doing well at airports that have struggled in the past, and with more aircraft on the way I would say the airport might not die off so quickly if FR left

[cuthere]

With respect BUD, I have said many times, including in a PM conversation with you a few years back, that the viability of LDY is questionable at best. Have a look at your personal messages and you can reacquaint yourself with my opinion.

Read my posts again. Can someone answer the conundrum I've raised about EZY remaining at BFS after the supposed arrival of FR? Nope. Didn't think so.

As for LDY being relevant to BFS, or its thread; it's about as relevant as Newtownards or St Angelo.

[mart901]

Think its well worth remembering FR failed in the Belfast market last time. I can't see why they couldn't have moved their operation to BFS at the time if the runway was such an issue, and that was with breath takingly low fares. BE backed down and i daresay they will again if they need to, and the outcome - less rotations and flexibility for passengers, especially business ones which N.I. really need, if you remember EZY didn't budge much, except the LTN service which in my opinion was to block FR, they didn't budge then and I don't think they will now. FR would do better to open up Europe from Belfast, preferably to places currently unserved that people drive down to DUB for in their thousands.

[Husky One]

The BHD-LTN was purely a game to up the pressure on TBI at the time who owned both LTN and BFS. RYR's city ops had little effect on easy at the time but if they arrive at BFS things will be different. Easy BFS operation is too big to move to the City as it involves aircraft from most UK bases not just the local ones. It's ranked about 3rd or 4th biggest in easyjets operation in terms of movements overall. You'd think they would stand and fight however in the past they have always tended to run from the Ryan's. STN is a classic example.
The 2 airlines operate on different models. Easyjet have adopted a policy in recent years of moving aircraft around to maximise yield. Every year several airframes shift around not because they are necessarily losing money in one place but because they can earn more somewhere else. If Ryanair arrive in BFS an compete directly then the yield will lower. Easyjet will likely resist in the short term and there'll be cheap seats. They don't last forever though as eventually somebody will blink. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of an Easyjet BHD-LGW service as a snub to BFS management. It would likely be very successful.
A sustained price war in BFS will likely lead to the removal of some based airframes and relocation of crews/staff. That's probably 18 months to 2 years away unless Ryanair were to blink first.
I'm baffled the BFS want Ryanair anywhere near the place given the money they make from easy. Never smart to bite the hand that feeds let alone cut it off. The won't enjoy the same levels of revenue from RYR.

[larry the man]

Does anyone actually know if there is to be an announcement this week or are we all just picking up where we left of last year with more speculation and rumour?

[BFS watcher]

Julian O'Neill of the BBC tweeting that there is a FR press conference on Thursday morning. He is speculating that it is Aldegrove but nothing confirmed. Obviously things being kept very tight as to which airport.

[elle may clampit]

Press conference is in central Belfast on Thursday so could be either airport but surely it would be a huge mistake to go back to City. Nothing has changed and the constraints would be the same.

[sarcon]

It is Aldergrove and the routes Gatwick obviously, with EMA NCL and LBA to follow. Brussels and Barcelona and Berlin from Winter 16.

[Jamie2k9]

It is Aldergrove and the routes Gatwick obviously, with EMA NCL and LBA to follow. Brussels and Barcelona and Berlin from Winter 16.

Have you just looked at BFS route maps and wish list and concluded those will be the routes as if so you would be mistaking thinking such a network would be profitable and sustainable!

What makes BFS different from every single other airport served in Ireland and the UK...

[globetrotter79]

EMA and LBA I can understand...NCL I don't follow since EZY are already on that route? I suppose the other possible one might be CWL if the new CWL management as as keen as we're led to believe about encouraging Ryanair to grow their operations there

[True Blue]

More comment here

http://www.irishnews.com/business/2016/01/05/news/ryanair-back-in-belfast-and-planning-at-least-six-new-routes-372819/

[EI-BUD]

If it is EMA, LBA, NCL, BRU and BCN, together with loosing the LGW route this will be a tough call for BHD...

EMA and LBA completely conceivable as these were previous BFS routes, though frequency would be interesting on 738's..

[mart901]

Yeah great for the traveling public. We will land up with 1-2 flights a day to EMA and LBA if BE pull off. I hope they stand their ground. SN might not necessarily budge as they have interlining facilities at BRU but VY aren't exactly flourishing at BHD as it is. All that said we only know of LGW thus far so we shall see. Also I don't think FR will have more than 3 daily rotations to LGW given the amount of slots surrendered by IAG. Interesting times....

[cuthere]

3x daily is still an additional 1134 seats a day to LGW from BFS. I'd love to know what EZY make of this.

[True Blue]

Did you wonder how BA etc felt when Ezy started pushing them out? Why don't you ask Ezy, I'm sure they will respond to you.

[EGAC is Better]

It is Aldergrove and the routes Gatwick obviously, with EMA NCL and LBA to follow. Brussels and Barcelona and Berlin from Winter 16.

Will it be Brussels or the Charleroi? Barcelona or Gerona? Maybe even Reus?

Ryanair to me = the worse customer service I have ever encountered. The fact it was over a Christmas period made it even worse. And before anyone says it, you get what you pay for isn't even justified in this case in my opinion. They have never seen another penny of my cash since that sorry episode just over 7 years ago and I don't intend to change that.

I can't see what they have to offer if they are going to serve the same routes already are mostly available from the Belfast area. Apart from the racket that is "Belfast" - "London" most air fares from here aren't so high that cometition will make them much cheaper.

What is any annoucement likely to mean for Easyjet? Do Easyjet earn enough at BFS to make it worth the fight with RYR? Or, could they stick two fingers up at the airport, say bye bye and easily make money elsewhere with the airframes used to serve BFS?

[Cozy F]

So cuthere, you could hazard that 5 of the FR routes from BFS will be STN, LPL, GLA, FAO and ALC!!

And as for EGAC is Better, well - there'll be Balance in ur comments...

[panpanpanpan]

I was in the process of looking at a few city breaks for Mrs Pan to visit family but think I'll wait for a few weeks. Looks like a price war may be on the horizon for Gatwick flights!:ok:

The press conference may well be in Belfast but I would be utterly amazed if it isn't Aldergrove. The interesting part for me will not necessarily be the reaction from FlyBe but rather the reaction from Easy, will they compete and lose profits or split operations to Harbour - interesting times ahead. I was in Aldergrove a few weeks ago collecting the inlaws and the arrivals board was EZY from top to bottom.:ooh:

[cuthere]

True Blue. Are you really comparing BA's one route to LHR with the expected arrival of FR and their up to five routes?

Also, by your previous "logic" BA only moved 12 miles away. What's the big deal? Did YOU ask BA? Or just blather on about what sods they and EI are for daring to leave BFS?

Think about comparing apples with pears, and also contradicting your own (broken, repetitive) arguments.

Cozy. You're answering a question I haven't asked.

Still. If FR eventually add BRS, with better frequency and timings than EZY currently offer, then I'll be happy

[EI-BUD]

It's it totally out of the question that ops could be from both Belfast Airports?

[West Brit]

So is it the case that FR were not coming to belfast any time soon until the LGW slots appeared on the table? Would BFS really put offers on the table for routes already operated out of there, especially by EZY? I remember all the hype the last time at BHD before the announcement. Will it be Copenhagen? Brussels?.... it ended up something like EMA, PWK....... They didn't jump on BHD/STN until Air Berlin vacated a short while later, was the delay by BHD or FR?
BFS are doing okay at the moment and wouldn't take a big hit if FR were to start up at BHD 'again' with all the contstraints there. So I would be surprised if BFS allow FR to 'bulldoze' there way in. A more measured approach by BFS would be prudent me thinks.

[West Brit]

Still. If FR eventually add BRS, with better frequency and timings than EZY currently offer, then I'll be happy

Cuthere, you must be getting excited as you forgot to finish the sentence with a full stop. The moderators aint going to be happy with your example.

[cuthere]

There - their

Get that one right and I'll be happy! The moderaters make the rules Westbrit, not me. I just hate to see the constant abuse of the English language. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it!

Joking aside, and back to aviation, a very measured and entirely accurate (previous) post.

[MerchantVenturer]

Still. If FR eventually add BRS, with better frequency and timings than EZY currently offer, then I'll be happy

You will probably remember that Ryanair operated BHD-BRS in 2009 and 2010 against easyJet's BFS-BRS. In 2010 easyJet carried over 150,000 passengers and Ryanair nearly 120,000; Ryanair pulled out in October that year when they axed all their flights from BHD.

Flybe gave it a go for a couple of years on BHD-BRS immediately after the Ryanair pull-out but didn't seem able to compete with easyJet and gave it up in 2012.

Although the latter has been increasing its passenger numbers each year since 2010 on BFS-BRS your feelings about frequency and timings resonate with others. In 2014 Belfast-Bristol in the form of easyJet's BFS route was still 40,000 less than the joint Ryanair/easyJet total of 2010, a time when the economy was not as buoyant as now.

Ryanair competes with easyJet at BRS on seven sun routes and is about to compete on Krakow from the coming spring so perhaps going head to head out of BFS is not entirely out of the question.

[BFS watcher]

So the battle will commence for dominance in NI. Flybe must be very nervous as must BHD management. The 2 largest low cost carriers at BFS with capacity pouring in and fares tumbling. Going to be an interesting New Year! Hopefully we will see some interesting destinations.....

[True Blue]

There has been comment on here about some of the very good pax numbers increases on some Ezy routes out of Bfs, especially to London. For a number of years now, I have believed that Ezy has been holding Bfs back, by restricting capacity. This winter, they add about 200k seats out of Bfs, and suddenly we see some really good pax number increases. Is it coincidence that they add all these seats months before Fr arrive, or did they know something was brewing?

Ezy have every right to manage their aircraft to maximise profit. However, by doing so, they can leave themselves open to attack. Their timings to Lgw during the week from Bfs are not that good, the timings on a Saturday ex London are really poor. So maybe they don't have too much to complain about.

[BCALBOY]

Business traveler magazine reporting Fr to announce BFS/LGW tomorrow ,Thursday.

[Straightahead]

Ryanair
Press conference in Belfast tomorrow morning.Word on the ground it will be BFS starting with 4 flights a day to LGW and then 3 based aircraft from end of October 2016.

[mart901]

Further article in the Irish News;

Berlin among seven new routes planned from Belfast by Ryanair - The Irish News (http://www.irishnews.com/business/2016/01/06/news/berlin-among-six-new-routes-planned-from-belfast-by-ryanair-373021/?param=ds441rif44T)

[BFS BHD]

Great News for BFS! Three Based is brilliant news. :)

[stab3.5up]

Great news for travellers. Who will be handling them?

[FRatSTN]

The UK domestic routes to EMA, LBA and NCL would be obvious choices as far as I'm concerned as the 3 UK airports FR do the least flights to from DUB.

Clearly they won't want to introduce high frequencies to BFS from the likes of BHX or MAN and dilute their 6 daily flights to DUB.

[SealinkBF]

As has been noted, FR grow markets.
So BE and Jet2 will definitely be looking over their shoulders but may pioneer new routes while FR and U2 slug it out.

And there's a growing minority of people who just won't fly FR.

Interesting times!

[tigger2k8]

Great news for travellers. Who will be handling them?

I would say Swissport... Which will no doubt lower the quality of service again to their current airlines as there isn't really any other handler for passenger flights at BFS at the minute unless there's another split handling contract with HAE + ICTS similar to what's done with United.

[jensdad]

Is it not just that someone at the Irish News reads PPRuNe? :)

[SecondDog]

I would say Swissport... Which will no doubt lower the quality of service again to their current airlines as there isn't really any other handler for passenger flights at BFS at the minute unless there's another split handling contract with HAE + ICTS similar to what's done with United.

With Menzies still clinging on at the City and any number of Swissporters who would jump at the chance to go back to them, surely they might have a shot at the contract and coming back to BFS?

[BFS BHD]

Now showing on Ryanairs app. 4 daily all week. Looks like BFS based from 27th March.

Edit: Currently saying sold out. Will likely be on sale soon.

[sarcon]

Swissport are the appointed handler, don't think ICTS/HAE were even considered.

[richardnei]

I believe Swissport is their preferred handler across the UK. I think they have a nationwide contract.

[mart901]

BFS has become a low cost airport really, like LTN of NI. The upside being the airport is less beholden to EZY. Better to spread your eggs across baskets.

[BFS BHD]

- THREE Based Aircraft (Starting with One in March with the other two following in October)

- One New Route to London Gatwick (4x Daily)

- Five more routes to follow in October

- 28 Weekly Flights

- Over One Million Passengers p.a

- 750 to be created

[EI-BUD]

Given that EI have 3 x daily on BHD LGW, and Ryanair going to x4, that will mean an increase of seats daily of 324 each way, in context amounting to a move from 9 daily flights between Belfast Airports and London Gatwick to 10. However, given slightly higher frequency and bigger ac, this amounts to an increase of 75% on the number of seats that EI had available on the LGW route ex BHD. Gatwick will overtake Heathrow as the busiest Belfast London route for the first time. The scale of this change may not be monumental to easyJet as the level of capacity is not growing massively.


It is starting to feel like BFS has struck a deal with Ryanair, that means new routes will be developed, and easyJet can continue to work its own patch, and the LGW as an example is a massive change in terms of overall market capacity. Though I do note Ryanair flights at 9.99 out...

[LBIA]

No mention what so ever by Ryanair to name the destinations to be introduced in October then! eg Berlin, Barcelona, East Midlands, Leeds/Bradford and Newcastle.

[EI-BUD]

And the statement by the airport MD very carefully worded in that it doesn't upset easyJet too much. Clearly this has been sold as FR coming in to take over the Aer Lingus slots. That will be just over 550K seats per year by FR (LGW), and currently AerLingus running rate of passengers carried on BHD LGW is approx. 20K (some months less), i.e. 240K per annum.

[HH6702]

5 routes to follow and 5 routes were also being named.

Let's see what happens I'm guessing most if not all will be on sale when winter goes on sale which is around march2016??

[cuthere]

A piece just shown on BBC Newsline says further new routes would depend on abolition or significant reduction to APD.

Ah well. Gatwick's nice in March.

[GAZMO]

So far so good but maybe looking for some more incentives before they announce more routes for the winter
Currently good growth on the London market (see caa stats) so should not step on EZY toes too much

[anothertyke]

No mention what so ever by Ryanair to name the destinations to be introduced in October then! eg Berlin, Barcelona, East Midlands, Leeds/Bradford and Newcastle.

How big was BFS/LBA when Jet2 was at its peak on the route? I'm guessing 80-100k.

[ESCNI]

So basically, today, Ryanair has replaced Aer Lingus's existing Belfast City/Gatwick three flights per day service with their Belfast International/Gatwick four flights one? ...and axed their Derry/Alicante service, to boot.

Just how many jobs did that actually create? Surely not the 750 being widely quoted.

:=

[LBIA]

anothertyke here are the CAA figures for the Jet2 years on the Leeds/Bradford - Belfast Int’l route

2003 = 12,264 (Started late October)
2004 = 94,412
2005 = 96,055
2006 = 112,134
2007 = 107,192
2008 = 104,765
2009 = 87,838
2010 = 82,469
2011 = 82,685
2012 = 51,535
2013 = 22,466 (Route axed in March)

[Husky One]

So a net gain of 4 LGW rotations on a route already being served by an established carrier with competitive fares. Further routes implied to be subject to the abolition of APD? Given that BFS current operators currently fly Euro routes, are subject to APD and with similar or higher cost bases I'd say Michael is living in cloud cuckoo land.

[Sober Lark]

The first airline to carry more than 100 million passengers in a year with a 17% growth in 2015 is back in Belfast, that's good news.

We used to call Chinchilla Airport in Australia, Cloud Cuckoo Land (CCL) :)

[El Bunto]

Given that BFS current operators currently fly Euro routes, are subject to APD and with similar or higher cost bases I'd say Michael is living in cloud cuckoo land

Oh I'd say quite the opposite, it's pure traditional MoL pragmatism.

Without spending a penny he has ensured that BIA will spend the next months organising a 'grass roots' campaign to lobby Stormont to in turn lobby Westminster about APD.

Meanwhile he can camp-out on the Belfast - Gatwick slots and cause a bit of pain for his rival, whilst waiting for the remedy slots to decay into normal Gatwick slots that he can deploy more usefully. If nothing has happened in terms of APD at that point then he'll pull out of Belfast with some snarky comment about Stormont's inaction.

Genius as ever.

[ILS25]

Nail on the head El Bunto :ok:

[GAZMO]

Have to agree EL Brunto, however I would assume winter routes are probably going to be announced in late March, early April. Not much time to change APD

[mart901]

Also 6 routes out of 3 aircraft isn't exactly a big base in FR terms. When you think they have 4 based aircraft at BHX and have 24 routes on sale and have had that up to the 30 off mark, albeit with a mix of based and non based operating them. As has been said on here previously they won't risk affecting their DUB routes too much, other than to wield a lever of power in bargaining.

[Straightahead]

Lets give a little bit of credit for once, great news for BFS and more jobs for Norn Iron.Great news like this does not come around too often so for the knockers can we put it to bed and be positive for once and hopefully the folks on the hill with the masks can see the big tourism potential this can create and pump the much needed finances into this investment both in supporting BFS and RYR and investing in the pathetic road network in and around the airport.Rant over

[Husky One]

The creation of jobs is a myth. If Ryanair go head to head with other BFS operators any jobs created with be lost in other carriers, who actually employ on permanent UK contracts with better terms. Any European route whose economics are so tenuous that it can't withstand APD is unlikely to be viable in the long run...even if it flies to a cheaper 'alternative' destination airfields. If BFS had bothered to lobby for the abolition of APD in the first place its existing carriers would likely have expanded anyway. BFS have bitten the hands that have fed it through thick and thin. There is only ever one winner in the Ryanair/airport relationship. I'd say it's a sad day for 'Lough Neagh International'.

[SecondDog]

The creation of jobs is a myth. If Ryanair go head to head with other BFS operators any jobs created with be lost in other carriers, who actually employ on permanent UK contracts with better terms. Any European route whose economics are so tenuous that it can't withstand APD is unlikely to be viable in the long run...even if it flies to a cheaper 'alternative' destination airfields. If BFS had bothered to lobby for the abolition of APD in the first place its existing carriers would likely have expanded anyway. BFS have bitten the hands that have fed it through thick and thin. There is only ever one winner in the Ryanair/airport relationship. I'd say it's a sad day for 'Lough Neagh International'.

It is not only airline jobs created but very many businesses will benefit directly or indirectly.

Life is not always so great in the other carriers as they all give first officers tough contracts.

They have lobbied for APD repeal and when that didn't work because the DUP only care about City, they even comissioned a report to challenge the executive's findings. What else do you expect them to do?

The hand that fed it also kept it keen for a long time when there were more scraps that could have fallen off the table, concentrating on feeding itself too. They coexist at many similar sized airfields so why not here.

Only winner on the Ryanair/airport relationship? You mean the passengers?

As for Lough Neagh International, if 12nm is a big trek to get to a city then I will stick my head up my own rear and disappear, how many places around the world have their international airport within city limits? Utter horse whoopsie on this thread today.

How about we change the habit of a lifetime and think about trying something from N.I. as opposed to squabbling over stupid preconceived ideas about what will happen. If FR fail then so what. At least lets give it a go....

[cuthere]

They coexist at many similar sized airfields so why not here.

Name one.

Lough Neagh International

That's what O'Leary called it years ago.

How about we change the habit of a lifetime and think about trying something from N.I. as opposed to squabbling over stupid preconceived ideas about what will happen. If FR fail then so what. At least lets give it a go....

You've flown FR from LDY many times then I take it, as part of trying something from NI?

[Husky One]

SecondDog,
I've seen that spreadsheet too. And yes if some state of co-existence prevails then there'll be a little benefit however that isn't how Ryanair tend to work so if you end up swapping orange or silver hulls for harp tails the net ancillary gain will be zero of negative. We're not talking about a passenger demographic that tend to spend large at airports here. Not to mention the fact that real jobs would be replaced by inferior contracts.

In what world do you think Ryanair crew contracts are comparible to those at Easy? Have you actually read them? Or are you assuming that you can just forget to pay tax as director of your own company that 'just happens' to provide crew services exclusively to the Ryan's?

You have claimed that the DUP only care about the City. That's probably true so remind me how that's going to get APD lifted by October then?

Passengers winning..how does that work if ultimately one carrier replaces another?

My ideas are far from preconceived. I've seen this play out before many times.
I hope that on this occasion their competitors actually give them a fight.

PS - sorry you didn't get the irony about Lough Neagh International :rolleyes:

[ATNotts]

The creation of jobs is a myth. If Ryanair go head to head with other BFS operators any jobs created with be lost in other carriers, who actually employ on permanent UK contracts with better terms

As a business, any business, not just airlines, if you want to get your business news further up the headlines the trick is to insert into your press release that your development will "create [x] jobs in the city / region".

The reality is usually as you describe it - be the company a DIY store, bus company or airline!

[cuthere]

Husky One - I couldn't agree more. Short-termism blinkers what will be the inevitable reality of the situation. FR will ride roughshod over any and all to get their margins.

This utopian notion that FR will coexist with EZY needs a serious reality check. When they've competed before on this island it ended in one major loser. Who that will be this time is less clear cut than was the case with EZY withdrawing from DUB etc. Worst case scenario is that BFS themselves take a hit.

All very interesting and potentially fraught times. But sure, for a while Joe Public might get a cheap run to LGW. Happy days.

[EI-BUD]

Some very passionate debate here on this topic. There clearly is a general concern that FR will cannibalise the business for itself and squeeze easyJet out. While I agree Ryanair is a fierce competitor, Belfast in my view will be very different to what happened when the 2 have competed heavily at various airports like Madrid, Shannon, Cork, Knock where easyJet pulled out, closed bases or cut routes respectively.

In areas where easyJet has a core market ie in GB it has held firm against Ryanair. Airports like Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol, Glasgow and Edinburgh the two compete toe to toe and in many of these easyJet is the larger carrier and on many of the routes has la bigger operation. These are all home grown markets for easyJet, ie not like STN that EasyJet had inherited from an acquisition. STN from what I can see is not the same, though just as FR have put it up to them on domestics, easyJet has so far held firm.

Despite all of this, Ryanair have become a much more rigorous competitor to easyJet in the last two years than hitherto opening up bases at the same airports as easyJet like at Malpensa, Fiumincino etc. And of course adding routes like STN EDI, STN GLA and now BFS LGW. EasyJet no longer can run, they cannot continue to defer capacity away to more attractive markets, Vueling are everywhere, and the cosy niches that EasyJet has persued at large hubs competing with the legacy carriers are now Ryanair's bread and butter too.

So put simply, whether Ryanair fly to Belfast or not the airports here are not isolated from all of these competitive challenges that are outlined in this thread. EasyJet has to compete, it has to have a model that can compete with Ryanair, it cannot simply cut and run, otherwise it will not be sustainable , so sadly eventually easyJet will have to address is cost base to compete with Ryanair unless it has another formula up its slieve to compete, but I can't see it. There are more similarities than there are differences between the two airlines. This last sentence alone will be debated and it is a debate worthy of its own thread, but Ryanair had improved greatly, it even will remove is gaudy yellow cabin look, which have a sense of crampedness, this and the always getting better program have from what I've seen transformed the airline.

Let's also not forget that Ryanair has an eye watering order book, so they will just grow and grow. They'll be almost everywhere, they are even pursuing slots at airports like CDG, ORY, airports they said they'd never touch. So for me it is clear that easyJet needs to stand is ground...

[PPRuNeUser0204]

Remember O'Learys cost base will rise when HMRC and the German tax authorities decide his pilots cannot be self employed....

[El Bunto]

In terms of cost-base, Ryanair's network CASM for 2014 was €0.055. Easyjet's was around €0.120 from what I can determine ( they don't include it in their annual reports ); yes, more than twice and on-par with Southwest, their role-model.

They have no real way of going down and fighting at Ryanair's level without totally restructuring the airline; but why would they, being comfortably profitable as-is? vice versa, Ryanair can't become a mid-tier airline with a good reputation without taking measures that will increase CASM.

The only European airline that can really compete with Ryanair is Norwegian, with a CASM down around €0.060. Best let them dog-fight with Mr O'Leary for the low end of the market. Reminds me of a quip about the Iran-Iraq war; "it's a pity they can't both lose".

[EI-BUD]

El bunto,
Can't argue with what you are saying. However, yes easyJet is profitable as is, but taking the longer view when FR continually elbows in on easyJet routes, like has been more notable of late like BFS and STN EDI and GLA and increased competition on the continental Europe from like in Italy where easyJet closed Rome base and set up as new made in Venice.... EasyJet future profits will be challenged in the current form. That's my point.

While FR has lowest costs, following by Norwegian, Wizz and Vueling, consistently FR strategy has been to under cut rivals to uncommercial levels like it did with Go ex ROI and easyJet ex ROI too. In these instances coat base meant nothing it was willingnews to burn cash and kill the competition that won out.

It is all fine and well saying let FR and DY fight it out at the lower end of the market, but FR is improving and I cannot see clear water between FR and easyJet, so easyJet needs to be sure about who and what it is in the future... Therefore defining what is the lower end of the market...

[mart901]

Well in the end FR have committed very little to BFS, remember as has been said LGW is not a core FR airport and its possible the BFS route will be chopped when the agreement allows. Looking at the reaction on UTV last night it looked like FR were coming in waving demands at Stormont before they'd even touched down. The general reaction seems to be Stormont is looking at a route development fund, if they have any sense that will be for new routes not for airlines to subsidise £9.99 fares to Liverpool.

As for treatment of employees yes indeed not too many of us know the real details but have a look online and see all the cases and complaints against FR, some from pilots and predominantly from cabin crew, and don't be under the myth you will hear local accents on the tannoy too often selling lottery tickets. FR recruit crew cheaply as possible from the likes of eastern Europe and Italy, on Irish temp contracts. To be fair there's very few such complaints about EZY, who give the impression anyway of being quite progressive employment wise.

[ESCNI]

"...not for airlines to subsidise £9.99 fares to Liverpool."

That's a shame. :{

;)

[sarcon]

A well structured route development fund would be welcomed by all. However the one that provided a Euro525k package for BHD - AMS, a destination already served from BIA and a significant support package for BHD - BCN, again already served from BIA, can't say exactly how much as my FOI request was refused on 'commercial grounds', is a farce.

[DC9_10]

I am amazed by the level of negativity on this forum. I wonder what the responses would have been had FR chose BHD again. Probably very different. I have worked for BMI and EZY for over 20 years in total and no longer in aviation, still maintain lots of contacts. I can suggest the press and speculators have some routes wrong and that FR won't be stepping on U2s shoes all that much. As for employee T and Cs at U2, that's a different story.

[mart901]

Wrong there DC9_10, every new route at BHD is met with criticism and accusations of brown envelope style political interference and calls for one Belfast or indeed NI airport. When Wizzair arrived there was a lot of positivity on here along with most new routes from BFS. I think people are too long in the tooth where Ryanair are concerned. The mere suggestion of BRU and BCN smacks of wiping competitors out of the market, lest they affect their DUB operations. If they were serious about Belfast they'd never have left. It is good news to have another operator and I wish them well, I hope it brings tourism and jobs. What I don't want to see is everyone else ran out like wizzair at ORK by FR only for them to ditch us in a huff having undone years of trying to get operators like SN, VY, KLM etc.

[DC9_10]

Mart I can assure you I am not wrong. Press and speculators have 3 European routes wrong but all will be revealed very soon.

[Aaron9890]

EZY already have a long established relationship with BFS and its passangers, so I think that it will still keep plenty of its passengers even if RYR do provide some competition. Obviously, with the low prices that RYR can provide, a number of passengers will also be swayed towards RYR but overall the introduction of RYR can only be a positive thing. Those who traveled to Dublin before may no longer feel the need to as they will (hopefully) be able to get similar flights from BFS from RYR for the same price. Not only this but RYR will surely intice more incoming passangers with their low prices. Also I remember talk of this Ryanair transatlantic service being a possibility a few years back, is this still in the pipeline? If so this could be further good news for BFS. IF they are still here in a couple of years maybe a transatlantic flight could be on the cards who knows. I dont understand why everybody is jumping to conclusions with all these negativites, cheaper flights + new flights = happy costumers.

[ILS25]

As far as I'm aware they ditched the idea of operating transatlantic themselves and then looked at codeshare with other operators from LGW, this idea also fell through I believe. It's a pity though as I reckon it would have worked ok.

[sealink]

Im delighted FR are opening at BFS. A trip to London is now on the cards as my airfare is cheap. Im crossing my fingers for Berlin as i love the city and miss going since Easy dropped the flight. Im also hoping BGY will appear in the future as i travel to italy regularly. Welcome FR, no moaning from me, just happy to see another airline arrive.

[NWSRG]

A number of years ago, I vowed never to use FR again unless I had absolutely no alternative. The level of customer service was utterly atrocious. So I'm in two minds about their arrival at BFS. It would be very sad if their presence damaged the EZY route structure...I've always found EZY to be reliable and generally a pleasant experience.

That said, if FR open new routes from Belfast, and carry though on their recent move to improve the customer experience, then I might give them another go. LGW South is probably the easiest way for me to get to business meetings in London, and they may do well there.

As to the other routes they are promising? Hopefully Germany and Italy...two obvious gaps in current offerings from Belfast.

Actually, just had a nosey at the FR website...Business Plus actually looks tempting...

[DC9_10]

Helsinki Berlin Warsaw next 3 😃

[flying officer kite]

Helsinki Berlin Warsaw next 3 😃


I would love to be able to fly these 3 direct from Belfast, though 2 of them were not in the list i saw of future destinations. Then again with all the hype and rumour who knows what O'Leary will pull out of his sleeve. As for the dig at Stormont to drop APD, who does he think he's trying to kid??

[EI-BUD]

Totally can see Eastern Europe being in the cards, and Berlin is a good city break destination and good location for Eastern Europe access . Though Helsinki is completely random, they don't fly there as it sits from anywhere, so dont see this as remotely credible

If there are too be three aircraft based, they'll need some routes off volume.

[AerRyan]

The PR announcement has practically guaranteed more aircraft and routes. Will the base last a year or more of a long term thing?

[SealinkBF]

There's great debate on the thread about FR and U2.

Like Lidl and Aldi, they have avoided competing directly in previous years, but it is getting harder to avoid each other!

FR still have a reputation problem while U2 seem to be flying high.
U2 are actually pretty aspirational, if you look at how their website and especially phone app function. It's a joy to use. FR are not there yet.

But, FR grow markets. So they will invariably impact U2 but will create many more passengers who would not have flown U2 in first place.

Interesting times. I don't think FR will compete head to head on many routes with U2... yet. Also, U2 are getting an entire terminal at LGW so I think will end up offering something more to BFS pax. I can even imagine U2 offering connecting flights as competition in Europe heats up.

[EI-BUD]

SealinkBF
In terms of LGW, as it stands easyJet have a fantastic proposition at LGW. With easyJet Plus, you get a priority channel which is for security check, going into departures. I've used this and been usually only 1 of about 5/6 people there at any time, complete joy, while the regular queue gets v busy and crowded. This facility make flying easyJet a very relaxed experience.

Agreed on the technology bit, very good indeed...

[El Bunto]

Once significant difference is that Ryanair develop their website and apps internally in their Ryanair Labs division.

Easyjet outsource their app development to Mobile Travel Technologies who basically drape an orange skin over their standard components. When the Easyjet app goes wrong, as it often does for me on simple tasks like downloading a boarding pass, there is no-one to take responsibility or file a bug. 'Just go onto the website, sir'.


By the way they're not IATA members so saying U2 is technically incorrect.

[elle may clampit]

Does anyone have a copy of the article by Brian Ambrose in todays Belfast Telegraph?

[fa2fi]

Ryanairs app is still very new. It was only until recently you had to pay a few euro for something that looked like it was a junior school project. EasyJets has always been free and has always been of a better quality. If FRs app is made by the same people who made the original pay for app then I can't imagine the support being great.

According to iTunes the easyJet app is rated 4/5 stars, the Ryanair one rated 2/5 stars. The easyJet app has also won numerous awards. And with easyJet a free of charge boarding pass will always be issued at the airport if the app were to break. I wouldn't be so confident of the same happening if I turned up for a FR flight and said my app didn't work so I don't have a boarding card.

Commuted every week for two years using the app. Had literally one or two niggles. Nothing that has warranted contacting support.

[mart901]

This one Elle?

We?re flying high, insists airport boss, but it?s now or never for cutting air passenger tax in Northern Ireland - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/big-interview/were-flying-high-insists-airport-boss-but-its-now-or-never-for-cutting-air-passenger-tax-in-northern-ireland-34354344.html)

[elle may clampit]

That's the one. Thank you Mart901.

[OneBellEnd]

Interesting article above!


Intrigued about the point on BFS focusing as a low cost airport.


Think in a place like NI where most folk know the value of a fiver, that's most likely the best way to appeal to everyone!?


Presume the city airport are only planning to attract the naubs then, who'll continue to dispense common folks taxes on regular pampering at £100s on hour long flights to London? Long may that last..:ok:


Mind, I suspect they will also be made welcome at BFS when they're paying their own fare and looking for a sensible price on easy or Ryanair?;)

[BFS BHD]

What airline is doing these flights for Thomson Lakes and Mountains? Appears to be a Verona Airport base plane?

Going out
Belfast (Aldergrove) to Verona
Dep: Sat 9 Jul 2016, 15:35
Arr: Sat 9 Jul 2016, 19:20

Coming back
Verona to Belfast (Aldergrove)
Dep: Sat 16 Jul 2016, 13:00
Arr: Sat 16 Jul 2016, 14:45

[panpanpanpan]

A very interesting article indeed from Mr A, I wonder is there an outward appearance of indifference to Ryanair but in reality a scratching of heads behind the scenes trying to work out how to cope with such aggressive competition?

Looking at the Ryanair timetable, that alone would prevent them from operating at Harbour this time round. You can't deny their pricing structure is impressive, I have booked several return flights already for around £40, compare that to Easy for the same dates and similar times you can add £100 to that! Only a fool would say that Ryanair won't massively shake up the fares and competing airlines at both of our main airports.

It will be fascinating to watch how this unfolds over the next year, will Ryanair simply p*ss off Easy and others and then fly into the sunset when another airport offers a better deal leaving Aldergrove dealing with very disgruntled airlines. Will Ryanair and Easy fight it out, who will blink first? £40 return fares can't be sustainable in the long term by anyone!

I totally appreciate Easy, Flybe etc are all offering a perceived superior customer experience but if I'm paying £40 then I expect very little, my train into London will be a similar price!

[EI-BUD]

I dont think Ryanair will need to be so aggressive after they get established or until the traveling public know they are here, the capacity on the London route overall is not going to grow significantly, simply replacing the Aer Lingus service and adding a bit on and easyJet will likely put 319 onto all flights I'd guess. Moreover, Aer Lingus downgrading the LGW route to 319 (Street brief spell with 320), was capacity lost, that is being put back into place.

All that said in terms of a London service, and prob more related to BHD, I'm wondering what will an AerLingus base with 1 aircraft in Winter look like.. Seems odd!

[justmaybe]

Perhaps the continuing success of BHD is that, as quoted in the BT article, Mr Ambrose has surrounded himself with a smart management team. Mr Keddie at BFS on the other hand has had to make do with, well maybe a few are well past their sell by date.

[Belboy]

Perhaps you are right, but you have to agree that BFS have had a pretty successful year too, even before the FR announcement, new routes, new operators, increased pax and increased profits.

[panpanpanpan]

Perhaps the continuing success of BHD is that, as quoted in the BT article, Mr Ambrose has surrounded himself with a smart management team. Mr Keddie at BFS on the other hand has had to make do with, well maybe a few are well past their sell by date. Have you met any other management at Harbour? I don't think qualifications are the deciding factor, more who they know!:E

I heard that the last MD from Harbour took a few of his handpicked lieutenants with him when he jumped ship to Aldergrove, I wonder were they involved with the "Aer Lingus contract on a fag packet" shambles that made the news some time ago? Having said that I agree that BFS management appear to be a little better organised than they have demonstrated previously.

[mart901]

Interesting panpanpanpan you've paid £40 to LGW and will pay about £40 on the train. Next week I'm going BHD - LCY for £80. It's £3 to tower gateway by my hotel and I'm free of stress and better off timewise by at least an hour. Also I don't think EZY will flinch. They are so entrenched in the NI market, and very able to hold their own. FR have always charged higher to LGW than other LON airports and I think it will land up the case on the BFS route if they are ever to make profit.

[GAZMO]

If I could get a £40 flight to LGW I would pre book the normal train to London Bridge and the a few stops on underground to destination. Much cheaper than Gatwick express and takes approximately the same time
PS you can now use Oyster cards from Gatwick as well

[cuthere]

Prebook a train GAZMO? A risk in England. Miss that prebooked train and you're paying full, on the day price for the next train. Good luck.

[El Bunto]

So, Viewing Gallery has been closed for an indefinite period to 'facilitate' upgrades to the Business Lounge. Congratulations on making the majority of your customers feel second-grade, BIA. Obviously we're just a hindrance to your precious corporate demographic.

But sure, put a smiley face on your Twitter post. That'll keep me amused waiting for a couple of hours in your bleak shopping-mall-terminal.

[West Brit]

So, Viewing Gallery has been closed for an indefinite period to 'facilitate' upgrades to the Business Lounge.


Maybe they are getting it ready for a return by British Airways!!


The last time I travelled through BFS was November. I wanted to take the kids up to the gallery, but was told that access was not available once you are airside.

[cuthere]

West Brit. Glad to read you're making an effort. Shame your posts are still garbage. How many times does Willy Walsh have to say BA are committed to BHD before it sinks in?

[ILS25]

How many times does Willie Walsh have to say anything.....

Willie Walsh rules out Aer Lingus bid | Business | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/sep/16/willie-walsh-rules-out-aer-lingus-iag)

Things change, don't rule anything out.

[SecondDog]

So, Viewing Gallery has been closed for an indefinite period to 'facilitate' upgrades to the Business Lounge. Congratulations on making the majority of your customers feel second-grade, BIA. Obviously we're just a hindrance to your precious corporate demographic.

But sure, put a smiley face on your Twitter post. That'll keep me amused waiting for a couple of hours in your bleak shopping-mall-terminal.

Or maybe they are doing the work via a landside bubble and the gallery would not be safe to use while they set up for and carry out the work?

But sure why think of all aspects of the situation when you can make massive assumptions and do a bit of slagging.... ;-)

[West Brit]

West Brit. Glad to read you're making an effort. Shame your posts are still garbage. How many times does Willy Walsh have to say BA are committed to BHD before it sinks in?

Oh dear and so the Americanisation (don't care if spelt wrong) of the original English language continues. You are a little naïve to suggest that high profile people don't 'change their mind'. I thought that living in NI would acquaint one with how whimsical homo sapiens actually are.

[GAZMO]

Is WW committing to Belfast or BHD in particular?

[BFS BHD]

Appears Geneva is being dropped by Jet2.
On sale at other airports only BFS not on sale.

[GAZMO]

Pity to see it dropped. Wonder if they will try other routes. Passed through BFS on Monday am and three Jet2 aircraft parked up

[GAZMO]

Good stats just out from caa
Nearly 4.4 million pax this year. Up 14.9% on last December and 8.9 % on the full year
Again more pax on BHX and MAN than those from BHD.

Hopefully over the 5 million in 2016.

[GAZMO]

LGW +12
LTN +34
STN NA
BHX +29
BRS _+ 0
EDI +7
GLA +7
LPL + 2
MAN +9
NCL +18

All good!!

[GAZMO]

Anybody know about flight tomorrow to LBA ENZ8JT departing at 10.10?

[LBIA]

ENZ is the ICAO code for Southend based Jota Aviation.

[BFS BHD]

Yes should be a King Air normally wouldn't show on the website. Been in before a few times.

[ILS25]

Belfast International Airport threatens parking legal action - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35348296)

So BFS may take the Council to court. Hope they use a different legal team than when they did the same with EI.

On a more positive note ICTS is taking on more staff.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35348298

[El Bunto]

Wow Air rumoured to be looking at Dublin as a transatlantic transfer hub. Would seem to be a perfect fit for BIA since the airline doesn't interline with others and would only be transferring its own passengers.

Meanwhile, car parking...

[AerRyan]

With its current service and prices it won't be connecting many people anywhere.

[El Bunto]

Possibly it's just a threat by Wow to encourage Keflavik to expand faster; already the airport is forecasting 6.25 million passengers for 2016 of which 35% will be non-visiting transfers.

That 35% would be equivalent to 50% of BIA's entire passenger throughput, just to put a scale on it.

[panpanpanpan]

I can see Aldergroves point on the car parking, Ryanair are going to bring thousands more punters through the premises which are not that fantastically served by public transport. The options for the majority of people are going to be either get a lift from friends or family or simply take their own car. If they have paid pittance for an airfare then they won't be planning to spend loads on parking, hence the competitors will hoover up a lot of trade.

Did Harbour not do something similar some time ago with a car park that was using IKEA? Its obviously a major source of income so why not try and get as much of it as possible.

[BFS BHD]

Business Lounge at BFS is closed until 11th February for Major Refurbishment. Is this maybe to get it ready for a new airlines coming? Or just needs updated...:rolleyes:

[GAZMO]

Think they upgraded the lounge a few years ago
Maybe waiting on BA/EI arrival!!!

[mart901]

Like IAG would give up a city location and throw themselves into the lions den of the biggest low cost operators and have absolutely no advantage over them.

[AerRyan]

Hehe Gazmo good one !

[GAZMO]

Notice UA flight arrvied from Newark , but appears outbound is cancelled? Tech issue or storm in USA ?

[br8fmr]

Notice UA flight arrvied from Newark , but appears outbound is cancelled? Tech issue or storm in USA ?


Biggest snowstorm for a hundred years, many US east coast airports closed on Saturday

[El Bunto]

Today's 757 is being held-over to operate UAL76 westbound on Monday at the earliest.

Eastbound UAL77 tomorrow cancelled.