British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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wascrew
BA trips to TLV are either 2 or 3 days long - depending on time of departure from LHR - and only one of them gives a day off before.
Extra day off to protect forward roster? Never heard of - crew can drop one local night to protect forward roster - but not possible with certain trips!
LCA is done by EF - no doubt it could go over and fill 777 but would probably be too expensive for BA - as the trip itself would be 5 days in total.
LHR-TLV-LHR Monarch Airlines done in one duty with hourly flying pay for the duty
LHR-TLV-LHR British Airways Day 1 =OFF because next days report is before 8am Day 2 LHR-TLV get off and have 24 hour rest in 5 star hotel with 140 pounds allowances DAY 3 in the afternoon TLV-LHR
Day 4 off Day 5 off Day 6 extra day off to protect forward roster in case TLV=LHR delayed after 9pm
LHR-TLV-LHR British Airways Day 1 =OFF because next days report is before 8am Day 2 LHR-TLV get off and have 24 hour rest in 5 star hotel with 140 pounds allowances DAY 3 in the afternoon TLV-LHR
Day 4 off Day 5 off Day 6 extra day off to protect forward roster in case TLV=LHR delayed after 9pm
Extra day off to protect forward roster? Never heard of - crew can drop one local night to protect forward roster - but not possible with certain trips!
LCA is done by EF - no doubt it could go over and fill 777 but would probably be too expensive for BA - as the trip itself would be 5 days in total.
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Maddie Baddie I don't know if BA follow the Resucitation Council UK protocols for BLS? I really hope so as the council are the experts in their field. BA are a reputable carrier, indeed our flag carrier, so I assume they do?
If the protocols are changed it is BA's (indeed any company's responsibility) to issue a Level 1 NTC (that company's equivalent) to all staff affected by this not just the CC. At my mob that would mean all CC would update their knowledge immediatly via this NTC. This would be re inforced at briefings by the SCCM/recurrent training and taught on all initial courses from that date. There would be no excuse for anyone not being aware of the change.
Fincastle thank you for the empathy
I know exactly where your wife is coming from! Unfortunately that is not taught on CC courses and CC will do what they are taught. That is why I feel they (with my nurse hat on)/we (CC hat) should be taught to defer to any medical expertise on board......after all we ask for it on the PA!
A can of worms perhaps worthy of a seperate thread?
Apologies to the mods for my thread drift here
If the protocols are changed it is BA's (indeed any company's responsibility) to issue a Level 1 NTC (that company's equivalent) to all staff affected by this not just the CC. At my mob that would mean all CC would update their knowledge immediatly via this NTC. This would be re inforced at briefings by the SCCM/recurrent training and taught on all initial courses from that date. There would be no excuse for anyone not being aware of the change.
Fincastle thank you for the empathy
I know exactly where your wife is coming from! Unfortunately that is not taught on CC courses and CC will do what they are taught. That is why I feel they (with my nurse hat on)/we (CC hat) should be taught to defer to any medical expertise on board......after all we ask for it on the PA!A can of worms perhaps worthy of a seperate thread?
Apologies to the mods for my thread drift here
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Winston
For the day time departure to TLV what i said is EXACTLY the case when longhaul operate the route which they usually do.I was longhaul crew until recently.
I forgot to re-iterate that Monarchs costs do not include
5 star hotel accomodation
Daily rate flying pay
140 pounds in allowances
FYI it is not possible under the CC agreement to flex below 3 local nights MBTR which in laymans terms is 2 full days off.
For the day time departure to TLV what i said is EXACTLY the case when longhaul operate the route which they usually do.I was longhaul crew until recently.
I forgot to re-iterate that Monarchs costs do not include
5 star hotel accomodation
Daily rate flying pay
140 pounds in allowances
FYI it is not possible under the CC agreement to flex below 3 local nights MBTR which in laymans terms is 2 full days off.
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For those saying there is "thread drift" in Lurker's original cross post, there isn't. It is yet another poor attempt by BASSA to demonstrate ("Even the DRs said stop! We are so proud!", etc.) that they know more than anybody else. Hence the mention of cognitive bias. Something must explain this BASSA brainwashing.
I merely pointed out that if a cardiac surgeon says "stop CPR" then, unless you are a cardiac surgeon with equal experience, you stop.
I gave the reason for it, and if it sounded insensitive, I apologise, but I don't expect the poor victims family to be reading this.
It is another example of BASSA pumping themselves for all they are worth, and yet more proof at how bad they are at it.
If the circumstances of this story are true, the crew in question have not "saved a life"; they have needlessly prolonged a death.
I won't bother with the pointless emboldening of that last statement; any of you who have worked in a catastrophic triage situation will be aware that sometimes these decisions have to be made, and they are generally made by people with the wisdom and courage to do so. And I would rather a cardiac surgeon made it than someone who has no qualifications other than basic CPR, and who then sees fit to use it in another forum in a pathetic attempt at scoring points.
None of this demeans the fact that the CC in question did their best to use their training. No-one could expect any more of them.
I merely pointed out that if a cardiac surgeon says "stop CPR" then, unless you are a cardiac surgeon with equal experience, you stop.
I gave the reason for it, and if it sounded insensitive, I apologise, but I don't expect the poor victims family to be reading this.
It is another example of BASSA pumping themselves for all they are worth, and yet more proof at how bad they are at it.
If the circumstances of this story are true, the crew in question have not "saved a life"; they have needlessly prolonged a death.
I won't bother with the pointless emboldening of that last statement; any of you who have worked in a catastrophic triage situation will be aware that sometimes these decisions have to be made, and they are generally made by people with the wisdom and courage to do so. And I would rather a cardiac surgeon made it than someone who has no qualifications other than basic CPR, and who then sees fit to use it in another forum in a pathetic attempt at scoring points.
None of this demeans the fact that the CC in question did their best to use their training. No-one could expect any more of them.
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Another (ex)SLF opinion
15 yrs ago, my company specified we fly BA by preference. Today we are instructed they are the airline of last resort.
Why? As wascrew stated "Paying customers in premium cabins are very aware that BA is STAFF airline run by it`s staff for the benefit of the staff and not the customer and has been for years."
We started changing our flying habits initially because we saw the arrogance and self importance of the staff coming in, and the "customer" becoming SLF.
The final straw was UNITE and the constant strike threats.
You won't strike over Easter now, Gee thanks? Do I trust you or care? no. I'll put my business elsewhere thanks. To a company & staff who show more care towards their customers, and seem to want to do a good job, and actually try to provide a decent customer service.
To us, the SLF, we just see a blind refusal to see the reality out there in the big world, and 70's style union greed and ignorance.
Flying is no longer an exotic or even mildly pleasant experience. The airport experience,the surly,rude,aggressive airport staff. Same on the aircraft. Once we were "customers", now the term SLF could hardly be more aft. THis is not unique to BA, of course, it's across the whole industry, often blamed on the LCC's.
The industry is shrinking, and under attack on many fronts , recession, green lobby, govt taxes, etc.. and BA's unions seem intent on helping the cause by removing BA from the world scene. While you bicker internally, we, the customer, will move on.(Actually, we already have).
There are many good people in BA, but their voices are being drowned out, especially in the media, by the dinosaur of your unions.
Maybe I'll get shot down, posting as a "non-customer", but I was once, and I'm gone now.
Why? As wascrew stated "Paying customers in premium cabins are very aware that BA is STAFF airline run by it`s staff for the benefit of the staff and not the customer and has been for years."
We started changing our flying habits initially because we saw the arrogance and self importance of the staff coming in, and the "customer" becoming SLF.
The final straw was UNITE and the constant strike threats.
You won't strike over Easter now, Gee thanks? Do I trust you or care? no. I'll put my business elsewhere thanks. To a company & staff who show more care towards their customers, and seem to want to do a good job, and actually try to provide a decent customer service.
To us, the SLF, we just see a blind refusal to see the reality out there in the big world, and 70's style union greed and ignorance.
Flying is no longer an exotic or even mildly pleasant experience. The airport experience,the surly,rude,aggressive airport staff. Same on the aircraft. Once we were "customers", now the term SLF could hardly be more aft. THis is not unique to BA, of course, it's across the whole industry, often blamed on the LCC's.
The industry is shrinking, and under attack on many fronts , recession, green lobby, govt taxes, etc.. and BA's unions seem intent on helping the cause by removing BA from the world scene. While you bicker internally, we, the customer, will move on.(Actually, we already have).
There are many good people in BA, but their voices are being drowned out, especially in the media, by the dinosaur of your unions.
Maybe I'll get shot down, posting as a "non-customer", but I was once, and I'm gone now.
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In all fairness the CC involved in the GRU heart attack followed their training and company SOPs. They did a fantastic job. They are not medical professionals trained and experienced in making quality of life decisions wrt when to stop CPR and the defib - they are taught to use the equipment and to follow a protocol. They did that and hats off to them it was well done.
The larger issue of whether they should defer to a cardiac surgeon on the day is one for BA to address. Events like this are always looked at afterwards to see if there could have been a better outcome - lessons are always learned. It may well be that BA's SOPS will be changed in the light of this incident.
The implication that the CC somehow knew better than the surgeon is just plain stupid, they did what they were trained to do - no more no less.
This is a side issue of no great import in this debate, and has little bearing on the issue of whether or not CC should be voting to go on strike. If CC genuinely feel that by striking they would be putting peoples lives at risk they would be morally reprehensible if they should vote in favour of a strike. I doubt that this is anything more than an attempt to muddy the waters and to somehow claim moral authority - which given BASSA's track record is both late and laughable.
The larger issue of whether they should defer to a cardiac surgeon on the day is one for BA to address. Events like this are always looked at afterwards to see if there could have been a better outcome - lessons are always learned. It may well be that BA's SOPS will be changed in the light of this incident.
The implication that the CC somehow knew better than the surgeon is just plain stupid, they did what they were trained to do - no more no less.
This is a side issue of no great import in this debate, and has little bearing on the issue of whether or not CC should be voting to go on strike. If CC genuinely feel that by striking they would be putting peoples lives at risk they would be morally reprehensible if they should vote in favour of a strike. I doubt that this is anything more than an attempt to muddy the waters and to somehow claim moral authority - which given BASSA's track record is both late and laughable.
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A Lurker:
You know old chap, you're really not doing yourself or your cause any favours by trotting out the same old tired rhetoric.
Are we to honestly believe that only BASSA crew are capable of doing their jobs? All this "Bigging oneself up" must surely serve only to further alienate (and even insult, not to mention patronize) your colleagues at other bases and people like BACrewboy (amongst others) who come across on this forum as conscientious, professional and with a positive mental attitude that can serve to make BA once again "The World's Favourite Airline".
I could understand this elitist attitude if you'd undergone some form of special extra SEP training that is exclusive to BASSA and which allows their members to walk onto an aircraft, cure the sick, heal the lame and then feed the 5,000 whilst all the time watching over everyone with steely-eyed determination to prevent possible terror attacks. I guess the ability to walk on water would be useful in the event of ditching at sea, but still...
I'll be very impressed...No, I'll make a donation to "Help For Heroes" - IF: You can post a quick summary (without resorting to cliches or BASSA / Dave Spart rhetoric) of why you believe BASSA's demands to be fair and reasonable, and what exactly it is that you're intending to strike over anyway, because many people (including me) are no longer sure what that is.
Just to help you out, here are some points which have already been covered and discounted as having no bearing:
"Imposition is unacceptable" -
Then maybe BASSA should have talked when they had the chance. Been done.
"Restore crew levels to what they were, then we'll talk" -
Can't. Crew have already gone. Been done.
"If we let them get away with this, what's next?" -
Can't strike over future possible changes. Been done.
"It's not safe to operate with new levels" -
Other BA bases do. And other airlines (including mine!) work much closer to "Legal" than any BA crews. All of the levels are way above those that the CAA lays down as acceptable minima anyway. Been done.
"It will create bad feeling onboard and will lead to bad CRM" -
What, and the current situation doesn't? Speculative at best, and been done.
"We've offered BA a deal and they just dismissed it out of hand" -
A deal worth (even at the most generous estimate) about 30% of the required savings. Been done.
"The recession is over" -
The recession is still ongoing. And as airlines tend to lag recession by anything from 12-18 months we're all far from out of the woods yet. Been done.
"This whole mess only came about because of price fixing, fines, etc." -
All of which were accounted for in previous years' results and have no bearing on the current situation other than to further fuel distrust of BA management. Been done. To death.
"The pilots get a better deal because they get their money back later" etc. -
Untrue, irrelevant and unconnected with a Cabin Crew dispute anyway. I work in the same building as my Managing Director. Am I entitled to the same deal as him? Been covered.
"Other departments aren't being asked for the same level of savings that we are" -
Other departments have done this already over many years. What's making it painful for BASSA is that no other management up until now have had the balls to tackle BASSA. Now they have no choice. They either destroy BASSA or BA will die. Been done.
"What's it got to do with you anyway? You're not BA cabin crew!" -
True. I do however book an awful lot of BA flights to position our crews around, so a strike will make a big difference to my day-to-day operations. I'm free to choose another carrier, but I like BA and hope they'll still be around after all this is over. I also work with CAP371 and so forth on a daily basis, so it's not easy to pull the wool over my eyes with regards to what's legal and what's not.
So, you were saying?
You know old chap, you're really not doing yourself or your cause any favours by trotting out the same old tired rhetoric.
Are we to honestly believe that only BASSA crew are capable of doing their jobs? All this "Bigging oneself up" must surely serve only to further alienate (and even insult, not to mention patronize) your colleagues at other bases and people like BACrewboy (amongst others) who come across on this forum as conscientious, professional and with a positive mental attitude that can serve to make BA once again "The World's Favourite Airline".
I could understand this elitist attitude if you'd undergone some form of special extra SEP training that is exclusive to BASSA and which allows their members to walk onto an aircraft, cure the sick, heal the lame and then feed the 5,000 whilst all the time watching over everyone with steely-eyed determination to prevent possible terror attacks. I guess the ability to walk on water would be useful in the event of ditching at sea, but still...
I'll be very impressed...No, I'll make a donation to "Help For Heroes" - IF: You can post a quick summary (without resorting to cliches or BASSA / Dave Spart rhetoric) of why you believe BASSA's demands to be fair and reasonable, and what exactly it is that you're intending to strike over anyway, because many people (including me) are no longer sure what that is.
Just to help you out, here are some points which have already been covered and discounted as having no bearing:
"Imposition is unacceptable" -
Then maybe BASSA should have talked when they had the chance. Been done.
"Restore crew levels to what they were, then we'll talk" -
Can't. Crew have already gone. Been done.
"If we let them get away with this, what's next?" -
Can't strike over future possible changes. Been done.
"It's not safe to operate with new levels" -
Other BA bases do. And other airlines (including mine!) work much closer to "Legal" than any BA crews. All of the levels are way above those that the CAA lays down as acceptable minima anyway. Been done.
"It will create bad feeling onboard and will lead to bad CRM" -
What, and the current situation doesn't? Speculative at best, and been done.
"We've offered BA a deal and they just dismissed it out of hand" -
A deal worth (even at the most generous estimate) about 30% of the required savings. Been done.
"The recession is over" -
The recession is still ongoing. And as airlines tend to lag recession by anything from 12-18 months we're all far from out of the woods yet. Been done.
"This whole mess only came about because of price fixing, fines, etc." -
All of which were accounted for in previous years' results and have no bearing on the current situation other than to further fuel distrust of BA management. Been done. To death.
"The pilots get a better deal because they get their money back later" etc. -
Untrue, irrelevant and unconnected with a Cabin Crew dispute anyway. I work in the same building as my Managing Director. Am I entitled to the same deal as him? Been covered.
"Other departments aren't being asked for the same level of savings that we are" -
Other departments have done this already over many years. What's making it painful for BASSA is that no other management up until now have had the balls to tackle BASSA. Now they have no choice. They either destroy BASSA or BA will die. Been done.
"What's it got to do with you anyway? You're not BA cabin crew!" -
True. I do however book an awful lot of BA flights to position our crews around, so a strike will make a big difference to my day-to-day operations. I'm free to choose another carrier, but I like BA and hope they'll still be around after all this is over. I also work with CAP371 and so forth on a daily basis, so it's not easy to pull the wool over my eyes with regards to what's legal and what's not.
So, you were saying?
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Unite the Union today warned the British Airlines Pilots Association...
Should I be quaking in my boots at this point?
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Good afternoon, 'Happy Campers' ... my goodness, things are really rattling the cage today.
I've been reading but not posting, because I'm just SLF as you know. Your Union conflict is for you to resolve; I'm merely a victim who pays your salary. However, I'm more than interested by some of the comments here from those such as ...
"Hawkerhunt".
That opinion is entire in accord with my experiences with BA [Long-Haul, LHR] in recent years. Honestly, folks, have you any idea how much additional damage some of you are doing to a damaged product? Or, frankly, don't some of you care?
"was crew".
Yes, that has been broadly my experience on every LH trip with BA - and that's in J, where I pay a mahoosive premium for 'service' that doesn't happen.
Ladies and gentlemen, I'm sure some of you do a great job for BA.
However, a lot of you, unless I've been incredibly unlucky, do a very poor job for BA and the paying customers.
After what I've seen a read on here, I wish I'd picked a different career path instead of the one I chose. But then this sort of information about working regimes, allowances, and benefits wasn't in the Public arena. It is now.
Please sort yourselves out. You have a good job with great T&C. A P45 and an uncertain future lies ahead if you misjudge this "Power Game".
I've been reading but not posting, because I'm just SLF as you know. Your Union conflict is for you to resolve; I'm merely a victim who pays your salary. However, I'm more than interested by some of the comments here from those such as ...
"Hawkerhunt".
Originally Posted by Hawkerhunt
We started changing our flying habits initially because we saw the arrogance and self importance of the staff coming in, and the "customer" becoming SLF. The final straw was UNITE and the constant strike threats.
"was crew".
posted by a customer ... Much of my experience of BA crew (not all) is get thru the cabin as quickly as physically possible (smoke coming off the trolley wheels), go to galley, pull curtain across (as tight as possible), get out Daily Mail/Heat, crew or pax food and bitch about the company/talk about shopping, A&F, cosmetic surgery, how overworked you are, the horses etc etc (all for us pax to hear btw). If rudely disturbed by a paying "customer" scowl, tell them you are trying to have a break (all at the same time), sigh and tell them you will get back to them. if you remember (or serve them there and then reluctantly) !! If on LH grab handbag and head to bunk......charter have to make do with sitting on a catering box in the galley on a flight to MLE !!
Ladies and gentlemen, I'm sure some of you do a great job for BA.
However, a lot of you, unless I've been incredibly unlucky, do a very poor job for BA and the paying customers.
After what I've seen a read on here, I wish I'd picked a different career path instead of the one I chose. But then this sort of information about working regimes, allowances, and benefits wasn't in the Public arena. It is now.
Please sort yourselves out. You have a good job with great T&C. A P45 and an uncertain future lies ahead if you misjudge this "Power Game".
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To finish the service as quickly as possible and get most time in the bunks - happens far too often.
It happened when I travelled to SFO as a pax not too long ago - flight time around 11 hours - crew were out of their seats less than 2 minutes after take off - and got over 3 hours in the bunks - on a trip as SFO you should have 2 hours and 15 minutes in the bunks.
6 of 11 hours in the bunks - that's 55%!
It happened when I travelled to SFO as a pax not too long ago - flight time around 11 hours - crew were out of their seats less than 2 minutes after take off - and got over 3 hours in the bunks - on a trip as SFO you should have 2 hours and 15 minutes in the bunks.
6 of 11 hours in the bunks - that's 55%!
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I refer the Hon Gentleman to my earlier posts about MaxJet. Same route, same flight time ... Perhaps they didn't have anywhere to go, and thus looked after their pax to pass the time?
Don't get me wrong, BA people. I'm not "dissing" BA for the fun of it. It's just not as good a service to the 'punter'/'SLF'/paying-pax-in-J as some of you might like to think.
Don't get me wrong, BA people. I'm not "dissing" BA for the fun of it. It's just not as good a service to the 'punter'/'SLF'/paying-pax-in-J as some of you might like to think.
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Two-Tone-Blue
I have to disagree totally with your sentiments. We've just flown LHR-CPT-LHR in J & had superb service both ways. We were well served throughout & as someone who needs little sleep I always found the galley manned throughout the flight. The CC I met were all very friendly & chatty & nothing was too much trouble. I was also aware of the constant walk arounds, presumably for security checks.
I'm as opposed to Bassa & their outdated antics as are most posters on this forum but don't let's keep knocking the good guys.
I'm as opposed to Bassa & their outdated antics as are most posters on this forum but don't let's keep knocking the good guys.
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Maddie Baddie
Know the feeling!
I went on strike in 1997 and I had one of the earliest WW flights from LHR rostered on the first day of the strike - it's very lonely and nothing but pleasant - it was a VERY tough call to make.
It's very easy for many to say to vote yes and strike - many of them have never been on a strike and the majority of our crew has been recruited after 1997. Do they think bullying and harassment have started? Wait and see.
What did we achieve from the 1997's strike? Nothing - only a huge £110 million bill. Looking back at it now I realize how naive I was - but what could you expect from a 22 year old guy?
BASSA didn't make it back then - and looking at what they have achieved so far - ZIP - what can possibly make them and their members think they will make it this time?
If it goes to a strike it will be a tough call for those crew with an early report in the morning on the first day of the strike. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes as they have an important decision to make. They don't know what will happen and the rest can sit by and watch and make their decision based on what happens.
I went on strike in 1997 and I had one of the earliest WW flights from LHR rostered on the first day of the strike - it's very lonely and nothing but pleasant - it was a VERY tough call to make.
It's very easy for many to say to vote yes and strike - many of them have never been on a strike and the majority of our crew has been recruited after 1997. Do they think bullying and harassment have started? Wait and see.
What did we achieve from the 1997's strike? Nothing - only a huge £110 million bill. Looking back at it now I realize how naive I was - but what could you expect from a 22 year old guy?
BASSA didn't make it back then - and looking at what they have achieved so far - ZIP - what can possibly make them and their members think they will make it this time?
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@ Fincastle84 ... a fair call, but I can only comment on my personal experiences. I did qualify my statements; please give me credit for that. There are some great people out there, I've had the pleasure/privilege of being cared for by them on SH. They just seem invisible on LHR-IAD, every time we fly.
Capetown may be a good/popular route? Who knows? But it shouldn't be a lottery when you're paying the premium rate for flying J, regardless of destination.
And that's my basic point, Kipper Mate
Capetown may be a good/popular route? Who knows? But it shouldn't be a lottery when you're paying the premium rate for flying J, regardless of destination.
And that's my basic point, Kipper Mate
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CPT: A very popular destinations. Long trip, good money, many days off.
IAD: 9 out of 10 times part of a B2B trip (four flights over the Atlantic in 5 to 6 days). Good money but very tiring. Not the most exciting destination for crew and only a nightstop.
IAD: 9 out of 10 times part of a B2B trip (four flights over the Atlantic in 5 to 6 days). Good money but very tiring. Not the most exciting destination for crew and only a nightstop.
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I merely pointed out that if a cardiac surgeon says "stop CPR" then, unless you are a cardiac surgeon with equal experience, you stop.
Just to help you get to grips with this, the reason why BA issued the 30 minute guideline is, after consultation with Medlink, (a professional medical advisory service based in Phoenix), this was deemed to provide the balance between life-preserving and brain damage issues. The reason why we are instructed to ignore any other opinions is that a doctor/Cardiac surgeon may not necessarily be so, they tend not to carry their degree around with them and a Cardiac Surgeon trained in say Somalia may not have the same training or values around the sanctity of life. Before all you Somalian surgeons jump on the bandwagon I make no judgements on your training, I'm sure it is perfectly adequate! In fact, when we PA for a doctor we get offers of help from midwives, vets, psychiatrists, urologists and even doctors of other learning altogether! It is quite a traumatic experience having to resuscitate a dead stranger on a galley floor and not the time to be making a judgement call on the authenticity of a volunteer. It is better to have a SOP to cover all eventualities. I hope that satisfies you as to why the crew may have stuck to the SOPs and not listened to professional advice as you would have preferred. Hopefully the families of those resuscitated will always consider it a job well done!
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It is quite a traumatic experience having to resuscitate a dead stranger on a galley floor and not the time to be making a judgement call on the authenticity of a volunteer.
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@ winstonsmith ...
Thank you for that enlightenment. That explains a LOT.
Sorry to hear the CC don't enjoy it. I can understand that - Herndon/Reston isn't the fun destination of all time. What a shame they built IAD near there, instead of by a beach or a major Mall.
Please remind me to fly to more exciting destinations in future.
As someone said earlier, who's paying for this?
Meeeeee .... Simples?
IAD: 9 out of 10 times part of a B2B trip (four flights over the Atlantic in 5 to 6 days). Good money but very tiring. Not the most exciting destination for crew and only a nightstop.
Sorry to hear the CC don't enjoy it. I can understand that - Herndon/Reston isn't the fun destination of all time. What a shame they built IAD near there, instead of by a beach or a major Mall.
Please remind me to fly to more exciting destinations in future.
As someone said earlier, who's paying for this?
Meeeeee .... Simples?