British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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LHR had Mid Fleet but the only reason why it didn't work was because BASSA had too much to say about it - crew on Mid Fleet never got any further away than to the Middle East!
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A lot of realy great people on the old 767 fleet .It did get bigger as time went on but the cabin crew were a great bunch.Although even back then they did get a hard time from short and longhaul crew for giving 767 fleet a go.
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Yes your quite correct .I seem to remember that BASSA refused point blank to represent any crew going on the 767 fleet back in 1990.Of course as time went on and the fleet grew and promotion became available crew went over in their droves .Then surprise surprise BASSA wanted in on the act.A good example though of the membership taking control.
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Yawn, Yawn Yawn!!
ENOUGH!!! Please please PLEASE, no more of this Lurker drivel. People all over our airline are FURIOUS that such a highly privaliged bunch of individuals are prepared to take the airline down the toilet, first with the '12 Days Of Christmas' and now the 'Easter Bummies'. I just hope that there are still enough sensible CC left who will tell UNITE, BASSA, and people like, yes, YOU, to stop this pathetic nonsense now. You have alienated just about every department in BA, and we are all ready, willing and prepared to strike-break to save our airline. No amount of boring TU clichés quoted by you will change that, and as for 'warning' BALPA... give us all a break please. If you insist on this fight, it will not be WW that defeats you, it will be US, the rest of our airline.
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I think Lurker has got his button stuck on "Transmit only" now dude.
On page 149 I asked for a quick reply as to what exactly he wants to strike over, and nothing even remotely close to an answer came back.
Best let them get on with it. BA is well prepared and I have no doubt that it will survive.
On page 149 I asked for a quick reply as to what exactly he wants to strike over, and nothing even remotely close to an answer came back.
Best let them get on with it. BA is well prepared and I have no doubt that it will survive.
Last edited by Ten West; 24th Jan 2010 at 01:57.
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Strike Pay
In the event of the impending ballot resulting in a stoppage or a call-out, will BASSA/Unite dole out strike pay to its members? If so, how much and for how long?
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Some beauties from the BF
Correct. As are managers, engineers, TRM's and the "no voters". Who's gonna save yours?
Great idea. Oh no, just remembered, the jumpseats aren't the crews' to give away. Our Captain will decide who they go to. So you CAN'T refuse his wife but he most certainly CAN refuse your clingon. Feel like being a little more compliant yet? Oh yes, the Captain won't have to let your other half on the bus to the hotel either. Taxis can be expensive in major cities.
£26m vs £150m. Because other departments have moved more than us in the past. We have some catching up to do. There are no pay cuts, we just have to work a bit harder. Everyone in the real world is just happy to have a job.
Concern for their own futures? Can you blame them? BA is in dire straits - BASSA would know this if they'd ever studied BA's accounts.
Scared to lose their pension? The upcoming changes will affect everyone. Gordon taxed pensions more, introduced a more pessimistic accounting scheme for them, people are living longer and the stock market is not too high. Everyone's pensions will need a re-jig, us included. Glad you militants find it funny and sad that you can't see how it affects you!
Next on the hit-list? Why would they (or for example, the engineers) be? They acted like professionals, studied the finances and made their savings. I'd imagine they are well off Willie's radar. He's targeting US, and if we continue to lose BA money by threatening strikes, it'll only get worse.
Sad and ill-informed.
well one thing is true...pilots are only volunteering to save their own asses!
wait till nigel and his missus need the crew jumpseats to get back from barbados....f..ing sing for them mate.
Says it all!
The only words that stand out.
26 million. = Pittance against what they
want from us
Concern for their own futures. = All about me.com
Whats not said. = Scared they are to lose
massive pension
next on the hit list = better conform or we will be next
The only words that stand out.
26 million. = Pittance against what they
want from us
Concern for their own futures. = All about me.com
Whats not said. = Scared they are to lose
massive pension
next on the hit list = better conform or we will be next
Concern for their own futures? Can you blame them? BA is in dire straits - BASSA would know this if they'd ever studied BA's accounts.
Scared to lose their pension? The upcoming changes will affect everyone. Gordon taxed pensions more, introduced a more pessimistic accounting scheme for them, people are living longer and the stock market is not too high. Everyone's pensions will need a re-jig, us included. Glad you militants find it funny and sad that you can't see how it affects you!
Next on the hit-list? Why would they (or for example, the engineers) be? They acted like professionals, studied the finances and made their savings. I'd imagine they are well off Willie's radar. He's targeting US, and if we continue to lose BA money by threatening strikes, it'll only get worse.
Sad and ill-informed.
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In the event of the impending ballot resulting in a stoppage or a call-out, will BASSA/Unite dole out strike pay to its members? If so, how much and for how long?
IIRC they promised 30 pounds a day, for each day a member withdrew labour when they were supposed to be providing it.
Assuming BA stop all payments from the first date of strike, I would expect them to not pay a penny to any striker until the strike is called off.
(Assuming there is one, that is, given how high BA have raised the stakes now).
Interesting article from the Observer. It would seem that BASSA are blaming BA for the nascence of the PCCC (if that's the right word!), even though I think we've seen its origins on this forum.
TUC moves to build bridges after strike ballot derails BA peace talks
Brendan Barber holds talks with BA and Unite to establish basis for future negotiations
The TUC will attempt to rescue peace talks between British Airways and the Unite trade union this week after discussions over staffing cuts descended into acrimony.
Brendan Barber, the TUC general secretary, is talking separately to BA and Unite representatives in a bid to establish a basis for further negotiations over reductions in cabin crew numbers.
TUC-hosted peace talks broke into open conflict last week after Unite announced plans to reopen a strike ballot and BA retaliated by threatening to withdraw travel perks for flight crew if they joined a walkout.
The ballot of about 12,000 cabin crew affiliated with Unite's Bassa branch opens tomorrow, one month after the high court injuncted a 12-day Christmas walkout over voting irregularities.
Unite has also reacted angrily to attempts to set up an alternative cabin crew body, called the Professional Cabin Crew Council, which has emailed BA staff and asked them to vote no in the new poll. The email states: "The word is VOTE NO in the ballot. Then Professional Cabin Crew Council can pick up the pieces, and find a better way for everyone to safeguard all our jobs."
Steve Turner, Unite's national officer for aviation, accused BA of backing an attempt to "establish a breakaway union", and called on it to agree a deal.
"The majority of our workforce is female, middle class and from middle England. They are not militant. There is a solution to this and sooner or later BA will grasp it."
A BA spokeswoman said: "We don't comment on private correspondence between the company and its employees or other groups."
Tensions also emerged last week between Unite and Balpa, the BA pilots' union, after a number of pilots applied to retrain as cabin crew to help the airline operate its fleet during a walkout. The joint general secretaries of Unite, Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson, have asked Barber to discuss the issue with Balpa, which is not affiliated to the TUC.
Balpa's general secretary, Jim McAuslan, said the union had a "neutral" position on the dispute but admitted that some members would join training sessions that begin tomorrow.
"We understand a number of pilots have responded to BA's call for volunteers to keep the airline operating through any strike and from their postings it is clear that this is out of concern for their own futures and that of other employees," he said.
The respective BA and Unite presentations at the talks, seen by the Observer, indicate that both sides are some distance from agreement. The 11-page BA presentation emphasises proposals that would see new cabin crew brought in on lower pay and different conditions, working on an entirely separate fleet. As a trade-off, the airline has pledged to protect the pay and conditions of current crew.
The BA document describes the "New Fleet" crew as a "high-performance workforce". Unite views the proposal as anathema because it believes the strategy will be a Trojan horse for introducing a deunionised workforce that will ultimately become the main cabin crew body – something BA denies strongly.
The Unite proposal, entitled The Way Forward, agrees to introduce crew on new terms and conditions but stipulates they must work alongside existing crew. It also agrees to a two-year pay freeze.
Unite argues that the proposals could deliver cost savings of £100m per year, but BA is seeking a total of £140m and claims that the Unite plan will deliver no more than £56m.
BA is facing a two-year loss of about £1bn and argues that deep cuts are needed across all levels of the business to guarantee the airline's long-term survival, as well as tackle a pension fund deficit of £3.7bn.
A second proposal within the BA document appears to open up common ground between both sides by discussing an "integrated/flexi approach". Unite also describes its proposal as a "flexi" fleet but its negotiators have warned that there are significant differences between the plans, with BA's approach including changes to working practices for existing crew, including shorter gaps between outbound and inbound journeys for air stewards.
The strike ballot will close on 22 February and the first walkout could take place on 1 March.
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Yes, the word is to Vote No to Strike Action.
To put it into context, this is a copy of the flyer we sent out.
The PCC Team, are BA Cabin Crew and the above represent their personal views and not those of BA.
To put it into context, this is a copy of the flyer we sent out.
Dear Cabin Crew Colleague,
Are you worried about the impending strike ballot and not sure which way to vote?
Are you concerned about the implications for your job?
Do you feel anxious, stressed and let down by both sides in the current IR situation?
Are you confused about the HMRC tax situation and why we are now going to pay more tax than the Pilots?
It’s time for A New Year – A New Start. This is the year that we must improve Industrial Relations in BA so that we can all enjoy coming to work again.
We, just like you, feel totally disillusioned with the current Industrial Relations situation. For the last 3 years we have endured impending strike situations, and that is causing unnecessary stress and anxiety in our workplace. We feel that there could and should have been a NEGOTIATED way out of this, which would have been in everyone’s interest. Instead, we have had an illegal ballot, which served no purpose other than to turn the public against us. We have been misrepresented and let down by UNITE, on both the strike situation and now the tax increase on our allowances.
A strike will serve no purpose other than to jeopardise what we already have. Our cabin crew community must reject this pressure from Unite to strike, and Vote NO. We need a better alliance with the company, in order to create a partnership similar to the ones the Pilots have. We need to establish a new, more modern, professional approach to Industrial Relations, so that we can all benefit.
Like you, we are a group of dedicated, loyal and professional BA cabin crew. We aim to find a better, less conflicting way forward. In order to do that, we are setting up a new Professional Cabin Crew Council to enter into improved industrial relations with our employer, BA. We will use skilled negotiation, intelligent debate and active listening with BA in order to work in partnership together in the future. If we don’t act now, we might not have a future to preserve.
We are professional cabin crew so we need a Professional Council that reflects our skills and professionalism. We are about co-operation, collaboration, negotiation to provide the best possible outcome for us and for our company without compromising our interests. By doing this, we will protect our jobs and safeguard our future.
Our email address is [email protected]. Please email us in complete confidence to let us know that you agree that it is time for the anxiety to stop.
The PCC Team
A better way to do business. A professional way.
Are you worried about the impending strike ballot and not sure which way to vote?
Are you concerned about the implications for your job?
Do you feel anxious, stressed and let down by both sides in the current IR situation?
Are you confused about the HMRC tax situation and why we are now going to pay more tax than the Pilots?
It’s time for A New Year – A New Start. This is the year that we must improve Industrial Relations in BA so that we can all enjoy coming to work again.
We, just like you, feel totally disillusioned with the current Industrial Relations situation. For the last 3 years we have endured impending strike situations, and that is causing unnecessary stress and anxiety in our workplace. We feel that there could and should have been a NEGOTIATED way out of this, which would have been in everyone’s interest. Instead, we have had an illegal ballot, which served no purpose other than to turn the public against us. We have been misrepresented and let down by UNITE, on both the strike situation and now the tax increase on our allowances.
A strike will serve no purpose other than to jeopardise what we already have. Our cabin crew community must reject this pressure from Unite to strike, and Vote NO. We need a better alliance with the company, in order to create a partnership similar to the ones the Pilots have. We need to establish a new, more modern, professional approach to Industrial Relations, so that we can all benefit.
Like you, we are a group of dedicated, loyal and professional BA cabin crew. We aim to find a better, less conflicting way forward. In order to do that, we are setting up a new Professional Cabin Crew Council to enter into improved industrial relations with our employer, BA. We will use skilled negotiation, intelligent debate and active listening with BA in order to work in partnership together in the future. If we don’t act now, we might not have a future to preserve.
We are professional cabin crew so we need a Professional Council that reflects our skills and professionalism. We are about co-operation, collaboration, negotiation to provide the best possible outcome for us and for our company without compromising our interests. By doing this, we will protect our jobs and safeguard our future.
Our email address is [email protected]. Please email us in complete confidence to let us know that you agree that it is time for the anxiety to stop.
The PCC Team
A better way to do business. A professional way.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 28th Jan 2010 at 21:54. Reason: Edited disclaimer
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Desertia,
On behalf of the PCC Team, thank you for drawing this to our attention.
On behalf of the PCC Team, thank you for drawing this to our attention.
It is very evident that those that run BASSA have their organisation by the throat. No-one seems to be able to produce or refer to a constitution of any kind, or even a set of accounts. How on earth can you assess the leadership when you don't know what they are doing, or how much it is costing? And obviously challenging such an oligarchy is almost impossible, if not dangerous.
If Steve Turner is upset about the desire for an alternative, he can blame the BASSA leadership for being so secretive, sinister and self-protective. I think that the reason that they have failed to keep their members informed is because if the members actually saw what they were really doing, they'd be out on their behinds.
BUT every potential member of the PCCC should read the book (or watch the DVD/Video) of Animal Farm by George Orwell (it has been referred to previously on this thread). It is probably the most famous example of the story of how power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
There is little point in setting up an alternative to BASSA if one of two things are allowed to happen:
(1) Those that form it get drunk on their new found power and end up abusing it exactly like Loopy Lizzie and her cronies.
(2) It is insufficiently protected from the risk that BASSA send the lemmings in en masse to vote in their cronies and then seize control.
It is not easy, but I just think that the constitution of the new council must allow equal access to all members, but without permitting an immediate BASSA-led power shift that allows the council to commit hara-kiri.....
I sincerely applaud your efforts, as much as I wish for the BASSA leadership to slope off back under the rock from whence they crawled.
To coin a phrase, The Best of British Luck to you!
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BUT every potential member of the PCCC should read the book (or watch the DVD/Video) of Animal Farm by George Orwell (it has been referred to previously on this thread). It is probably the most famous example of the story of how power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
There is little point in setting up an alternative to BASSA if one of two things are allowed to happen:
(1) Those that form it get drunk on their new found power and end up abusing it exactly like Loopy Lizzie and her cronies.
(2) It is insufficiently protected from the risk that BASSA send the lemmings in en masse to vote in their cronies and then seize control.
It is not easy, but I just think that the constitution of the new council must allow equal access to all members, but without permitting an immediate BASSA-led power shift that allows the council to commit hara-kiri.....
I sincerely applaud your efforts, as much as I wish for the BASSA leadership to slope off back under the rock from whence they crawled.
To coin a phrase, The Best of British Luck to you!
There is little point in setting up an alternative to BASSA if one of two things are allowed to happen:
(1) Those that form it get drunk on their new found power and end up abusing it exactly like Loopy Lizzie and her cronies.
(2) It is insufficiently protected from the risk that BASSA send the lemmings in en masse to vote in their cronies and then seize control.
It is not easy, but I just think that the constitution of the new council must allow equal access to all members, but without permitting an immediate BASSA-led power shift that allows the council to commit hara-kiri.....
I sincerely applaud your efforts, as much as I wish for the BASSA leadership to slope off back under the rock from whence they crawled.
To coin a phrase, The Best of British Luck to you!
We'll definitely keep you in the loop.
Please be assured that the PCC isn't and won't be power greedy.
Our approach is mature, not juvenile, no thumping on the tables and walking out of meeting rooms if we don't get our way.
We're good role models for BA with good track records. That in itself should speak volumes for our character. We're grown ups, sensible and professional and we will listen,talk and negotiate resulting in a win win situation for BA, our customers and ourselves.
As you say it's not going to be easy and we don't deny it, we are work in progress. However we can no longer live with the outdated 70's style of UNITE that is destroying BA and risks destroying all our jobs. Industrial relations in BA with Cabin Crew have to change for the better.
As for George Orwell's Animal Farm, Ive just ordered it from Amazon except that I'm spoilt for choice with some excellent casts in several different productions.
Thank you for your vote of confidence and I won't deny that we will need plenty of British Luck.
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above represent my personal views and not those of BA.
Clearly the old 70s-style, leftie trade unions are a dying breed
e.g. Check out Bob Crow of the RMT union and the TGWU (Unite) has a similar heirarchy.
Like our government, the unions are still run by communists who subvert members interests to serve their own political agenda.
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e.g. Check out Bob Crow of the RMT union and the TGWU (Unite) has a similar heirarchy.
Not bang up to date, but illustrates the trend. They lose members every time they destroy an industry or company.
National Statistics Online
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Furious, enraged, angry etc. etc, etc....
These are some of the adjectives I have read to describe how 'crew' are feeling about the company's recent communication.
Some of the community, maybe but certainly not all of us!
I think a lot of my colleagues feel sad, let down, confused, worried, unsure of the direction they are going in, crystal clear they have a choice to continue to enjoy a really good job and perks or throw it away. (Read this forum for specific examples)!
As this forum and conversations with fellow crew colleagues has also indicated there are a lot of us (a number that is growing rapidly), who simply will not push the self destruct button.
The vast majority value and appreciate our jobs and yes the company we work for and the hard working people that make up that family.
We are just as resolute in maintaining what we have by means of reasonable change so our business can get back in the black and we can look forward to a brighter future together.
I think we owe this to our 25,000 employees (other than cabin crew), 35M customers and 1000's of Cabin Crew who did not vote for a strike or are not in/have left the union and even those that did, but are now really worried about its consequences for ALL.
As I said before pressing the nuclear button will be met with a nuclear response, (My view); it's now happening.
I am not Nostradarmus, but it really doesn't take much foresight to realise that this is real and although some nervously look back to previous conflicts where, yes people and perks came back without sanction, I think this time it looks and feels very different.
(My own thoughts, they do not represent my company or anyone else).
Some of the community, maybe but certainly not all of us!
I think a lot of my colleagues feel sad, let down, confused, worried, unsure of the direction they are going in, crystal clear they have a choice to continue to enjoy a really good job and perks or throw it away. (Read this forum for specific examples)!
As this forum and conversations with fellow crew colleagues has also indicated there are a lot of us (a number that is growing rapidly), who simply will not push the self destruct button.
The vast majority value and appreciate our jobs and yes the company we work for and the hard working people that make up that family.
We are just as resolute in maintaining what we have by means of reasonable change so our business can get back in the black and we can look forward to a brighter future together.
I think we owe this to our 25,000 employees (other than cabin crew), 35M customers and 1000's of Cabin Crew who did not vote for a strike or are not in/have left the union and even those that did, but are now really worried about its consequences for ALL.
As I said before pressing the nuclear button will be met with a nuclear response, (My view); it's now happening.
I am not Nostradarmus, but it really doesn't take much foresight to realise that this is real and although some nervously look back to previous conflicts where, yes people and perks came back without sanction, I think this time it looks and feels very different.
(My own thoughts, they do not represent my company or anyone else).
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A Lurker
Mate please stop posting lies - we went to India, Seattle, San Francisco - stop posting Waterside lies
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Professional Cabin Crew Council
Good luck with the PCCC.Now that it has been mentioned in the media it should get you the attention and exposure it needs.You deserve an adult negotiating body that represents you in the 21st Century.Not something that evolved out of the 1970s and is now slanging off BALPA and every other group in BA for not supporting it.
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I think what the OP meant about Midfleet only operating to the middle east realy meant was there were no long range trips they did a few back to backs.The shorthaul work was also very limited the 767 did all the there and backs they did a CDG,ATH and LCA but none of the big money trips.So BASSA did actaully have a say on what work the fleet was given.
I was chatting to an ex MAN girl the other day in CRC and she said that she will be voting NO. She went onto say that BASSA just shafted them throughout the years and especially at the closure of the base.I wont say what she said about her LHR cabin crew colleagues but lets just say it was more or less what goes around comes around. !
I was chatting to an ex MAN girl the other day in CRC and she said that she will be voting NO. She went onto say that BASSA just shafted them throughout the years and especially at the closure of the base.I wont say what she said about her LHR cabin crew colleagues
but lets just say it was more or less what goes around comes around. !
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Good luck with PCCC! It'll be a great success compared to BASSA. We need to get them out of BA. Do you know when crew from our GLA and MAN bases transferred down to LHR when they were closed, did they keep their ranks and seniority or did BASSA insist on having them removed?