Gulf Air Developments

[Albergineman]

What is on Flight Global website:

With Gulf Air (http://www.gulfair.com/about/) not expecting its first Boeing 787s (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/boeing%20787.html) to arrive until at least 2016, the airline is focusing on its efforts on developing its Airbus A330 (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/airbus%20a330.html) fleet.
The Bahraini flag carrier operates six A330-200s and will take three ex-Middle East Airlines A330-200s next year on eight-year operating leases from International Lease Finance (http://www.ilfc.com/).
The carrier is seeking four additional A330s as an interim replacement for some of its A340-300s, and sent a request for proposals to lessors earlier this year. "We have offers on the table and we will announce our decision next month," says Gulf Air chief strategy officer Tero Taskila.
Gulf Air has orders for 20 A330-300s and 24 787s. The latter will be the core of its future widebody fleet, with the A330s being taken as bridge aircraft. Taskila says Gulf Air is hoping to take four A330s on six- to eight- year operating leases but lessors are now offering 10-year leases.
Gulf Air has a growth requirement of three-to-four widebodies a year during the next five years as it growing its network from 43 destinations to 60 by 2013.

:D

[Albergineman]

Here it goes what is on the Airliners.net...

Gulf Air is poised for a major expansion in the long-haul market, adding up to six European destinations to its network next year.

As part of its summer schedule for 2009, the Bahraini national carrier says it is hoping to launch flights to Amsterdam, Rome, Milan, Munich, Moscow and Warsaw.

However, the decision on whether to go ahead depends on the level of the oil price. At $100-110 a barrel, the company will launch three or four destinations, and then review launching a further two or three.

However, any rise in the cost of fuel beyond that level could limit the number of new destinations, or even lead to the whole expansion programme being postponed.

"We have to decide which markets have the potential to bring enough passengers to Bahrain," says Bjorn Naf, chief executive officer of Gulf Air

:ok:

[Albergineman]

Dear All,

This is to inform you that Gulf Air has officially revealed that it will be increasing nonstop flights between its BAH hub and FRA from daily A 332s to 9 weekly nonstop flights

8 weekly flights will be flown using an A 332 where as the 9th will see an A 343 being used which has the new F & J class product.

The 2 new weekly flights are on Mon & Fri only and start from Nov 17th onwards.

Flight schedule is as follows:

GF 15 Dep BAH 1645 Arr FRA 2130
GF 14 Dep FRA 2245 Arr BAH 0645+1

These new flights can be viewed on all major GDS reservations.

The new flights connect very well with all GCC, BKK, DEL and BOM bound flights

:ok:

[Mow]

Definitly we need more Workforce and Equipements to do all that... Which we definitly don't have, at least currently and my guess until end of 2009. :confused:

To my knowledge, we are only getting three A330 by end of 2009, so is it possible to have all these extra destinatins and increase of flights to current hubs by 3 aeroplanes?

[brassplate]

they had first better sort out the sentiment amongst pilots who are in "work to rule" mode.
maybe throw out a few toxic elements in the crew planning department before moving forward.

[Albergineman]

We are already getting new SO's and FO's to the A320 fleet. I don't know about transfers to the WB fleet, but it will give some extra manpower to sort out this issue anyway.
Since the new filghts will start next month and the significant change on the network only next year, I believe there will be enough time.

:ok:

[gulfboy]

Any idea how these extra CDG/FRA flights will work lay-over wise?
Minimum rest at some airport hotel? Arrive with the morning flight and leave with the evening flight?

[Panama Jack]

I'd like to think that we might be picking up some more A319's. Seems like the right airplane to start-up a route until when/if loads support an A330.

[Capt Hair Y Balls]

Keep dreaming boys :zzz:

[Sal-e]

The two A319s are in the hangar now.

[Panama Jack]

More . . . more!!!

[obsidian]

i think gf has a hard enough problem maintaining its current schedule! dont see any expansion until maybe 2010..just management talk...we buy this..we start that..we change management...back to ZERO:E

[Chuck Y]

More management BS. Our aircraft are a total embarassment not just technically but also aesthetically-I have seen shanty towns on the suburbs of Dhaka in better shape than most of our cabins!!! It's not anymore about just getting additional A/C, we now need to replace the entire fleet since God knows how much longer ours can keep on flying. But as our leader says:

"Let’s take our Golden Falcon to its glory."

or maybe this is more correct

"Nehmen wir unser Golden Falcon auf seine Herrlichkeit"

[brassplate]

the aircrafts are old and there's nothing we can do about it. we can't exactly cease operation until new aircrafts turn up.
on a preventative note, a lot of airlines fly much older equipment than ours. so we can't use the excuse that old aircrafts. it's a matter of upkeep and regular maintenance. at the very least, we must have clean and hygenic cabins. passengers expect this and pay good money for it.
ours are neither maintained or clean and hygenic.
someones head need to roll for this.

[Desert Diner]

They may be older, but as you said, they are much cleaner.

GF better clean up their act, and their planes, soon as EY is already making big inroads into GF's customer base!

[Radar Contact]

EV is doing GFA544 | BAH-AUH today

RC

[Albergineman]

Who is in charge of cleaning aircraft?
How many cleaning companies does GF have as option when deciding to sign a contract?
I like Bahrain and work for GF also but I say that I don’t like the lack of hygiene culture around. Wherever you look at you see dirt! It is disgusting every time I’m coming to work or leaving from and walk across the bus stop area, mail area and at wing A gate area and see the amount of cigarettes, cans, cups, etc. all around.
So it is predictable that with the aircraft would not be different, since the person in charge of the cleaning company and the manpower contracted for this job unlikely has any clue of hygiene. It seems that the culture is drop litter wherever you are because there will be a humiliated Asian or sub-continent labour to collect.
Add to this among many other factors the turnaround time for a wide body aircraft...
There are still many things to be changed but some goes beyond GF control!
:yuk:

[skywaytoheaven]

OK please for our sanity the word is AIRCRAFT not AIRCRAFTS. The plural is singular, there is no such word as aircrafts.

[Albergineman]

For heavens you are right!!! I am so embarrassed, I didn't know that it was so insane...

:ugh:

[Chuck Y]

Yaysterday as i is walked round my airaplane i was looking at other aircraftS & i is think why it is we are so bad. all aircraftS so dirty & smell like a goat with heavy vagina discharge during pregnancy. i wish 1 day gulf air buy plenty new aircraftS maybe even with sheeshah machine onboard cos i heard that boing offered it on the 24 creamliner aircraftS we give money to buy.

[gilderoy lockhart]

Chuck, thanks for the excellent comparison between your pregnant goat/aircraft, quite inspired!:yuk:

[brassplate]

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahaahah.......funniest thing i've ever heard!!!!!!!
chuck y, you're my hero.

[Icarus]

Well, never having sniffed a goat suffering from heavy vaginal discharge I wouldn't know - Chuck Y?? Might be healthier to take up running or golf or reading books!

[undersiege]

No amount of cleaning will ever get rid of the smell as long as 90% of our pax get on-board un-washed:yuk:. They sit un-washed on on seats and skybeds:yuk:. Touch everything onboard un-washed. Clean up the act of our pax and the airline is on the way to picking up it's game!!!!!:ok:

[undersiege]

A little of the topic.

What is with all the PENIS advertisments on PPRUNE at the moment. I find it pathetic and extreamly stupid to have on a professional webpage. Remember Self Loading Freight look at this site as well as the media. If this is not going to stop can someone at least remove it from my profile, I do not want it there.
I know by posting this message I am opening myself up to some very childish PENIS joke's.

SO BRING IT ON LADS....... AND THOSE FEW ( TOKEN ) FEMALE PILOTS THAT WORK FOR US. ;):E

US.

[ODMEA]

I can tell you guys after 6 yrs of exclusive GF F and J class flying and Gold for Life FF status I am not flying GF anymore.

GF recently downgraded my status to "Gold" from "Gold for Life" because I did not take the minimum of two GF flights in a year(with most civilised airlines once you attain life status it means just that - for life - GF still have a catch of needing two flighst per yr to maintain)..YET they have the hide to ask me why I have not been flying GF and if I have any issues I should write to them. I wrote the local head FF manager (Local Bahraini - AQ) saying I was not satisfied and all he replied saying was you did not meet minimum requirments so your status has changed with an exclaimation mark and question mark as though I was being unreasonable - did not even listen or offer to maintain my status to save my loyalty.:ugh:

It will be EY for me now-they are still in a bit of a shambles with on board service and food not that great but they have the hard product and tyring.

I'll look GF up again in 3-4 yrs when they have new ac. When other carriers trip over themselves offering matched status for a switich in loyalty to them GF seriously need to rethink their strategy. No wonder Lesly Britton left.

Sorry I know you pilots work bloody hard with crap equipment but I'm not wasting my hard earned $ anymore cus from a premium pax perspective it aint premium no more-ac are abysmal!:* & :sad:

Oddy

[Mephistopheles]

ODMEA, sad that you are not flying with us anymore but who can blame you? In fact if I didn't get free or cheap tickets with GF I wouldn't travel with us either. It's not just about the aircraft but the whole experience of first booking with us, then dealing with the ground staff & all the other stuff is just not acceptable from a service based airline. As usual our weak point, apart from the beautiful airplanes!, is our useless ground staff.

[Che Guevara]

Sorry to hear your story ODMEA and I am sure most of us feel the same way......sadly customer service is not among our strong points. Hope to see you back sometime in the future.

Chao

[ODMEA]

With much due respect to locals - unfortunately 95% have NO idea of the industry its clear its just a job to most nothing more than a monthly income, wether the lazy male crew in the air or the rude abrupt staff on the ground. The only really good service was the chefs, most of the female expat crew and lounge ladies.

Im not sure how seriously the locals understand they just cant seem to cut it customer service wise and without the expats the airline would be another KU or syrian arab airlines. The Lebanese operate the only decent all arab airline - there is no doubting that and against all odds too! Why GF makes it so hard is beyond me. The enshalla attitude and the world owes me everything is what destroys any efforts at reviving GF. Some opportunistic expat managers too I guess.

I recall my first GF flight in 95 - I was So impressed I flet like royalty compared to being on Qantas. Its the service and hard product that immediately win premium pax..shedules and on time performance are important too.. GF only has the schedules. Everything else has just fallen apart. If they continue at this rate they may as well just resign to becomming a subcontinant charter / shuttle service. Of all the hype I heave heard and read nothing has disseminated to the first or business cabins...same ol same ol. The chefs have been the best thing GF ever did. The only 8 seats and two lavs in F will be sadly missed.

The rest I am glad to be rid of.

Good luck gents and see you maybe in 5yrs-heres hoping.:confused:

Oddy

[wapses]

Gulf Air's biggest service problem, let's face it, is that they have to employ male Bahraini cabin staff.

The vast majority of these guys (and there are some exceptions) are not service-oriented and although efficient, there is none of the friendliness that passengers enjoy with other airlines.

And trying to get a glass of wine!! Well, I know Bahrain is a Muslim country, but if they do not want to serve alcohol to pasengers then they shouldn't be doing the job.

[tbaylx]

GF has much bigger customer service issues than the odd male bahraini cabin crew. If only that were the extent of the problems.

[buba]

with oil prices falling down to around 60 bucks a barrel (from $147), that should effectively mean a decrease in losses, unless the 'world economic slowdown' will be used as an excuse. if load factors remain the same..we should be seeing improvements. but then again i could be wrong

[Chuck Y]

The problem is now that the price of oil has dropped they can bring in even more 'friendly' managers so that our costs will increase even further & our losses will remain the same.

[Che Guevara]

Out of curiosity, does anyone here think the powers that be actually have a plan?

I know a number of us are very concerned at what appears to be the 'order of the day', lurching from crisis to crisis....and seemingly focussing on flight delays and other minor issues without showing any outward signs of dealing with the very real and important problems that must be dealt with if we are to survive.

[boiler]

Mideast passenger traffic drops for first time in years
Sunday, 26 October 2008

Air passenger traffic for Middle Eastern airlines has dropped for the first time in years as the global economic downturn took its toll on the aviation industry, according to new industry figures.

The International Air Transport Association (IATA) said on Friday passenger traffic dropped 2.8 percent in September after years of double-digit growth as international passenger traffic declined 2.9 percent.

"While the region’s oil-based economy remains strong, the large portion of transit traffic exposes the region’s carriers to the global economic weakness," IATA said in a statement.

The region's passenger traffic figures are a far cry from the 4.3 percent growth in August and 5.3 percent in July, and in complete contrast to the 10.6 percent increase recorded during the first six months of the year.

Giovanni Bisignani, IATA director general and CEO, said the drop in traffic is the worst since the outbreak of the SARS respiratory disease in 2003.

"The deterioration in traffic is alarmingly fast-paced and widespread. We have not seen such a decline in passenger traffic since SARS in 2003," Bisignani said in a statement.
"Even the good news that the oil price has fallen to half its July peak is not enough to offset the impact of the drop in demand."

[Che Guevara]

boilermaker
Yes, I read that also which of course is part of our concern...so what are we doing, increasing fequency....

[fractional]

Assuming an airline has to have airworthy acft and qualified and apt crews, acft ageing and appealing cabins contribute for a good customer service from the moment the pax buys his/her ticket according with the pax's cheap or expensive form of affordability. And this includes keeping promises according with loyalty programs, timely flight information before the flight, check in, baggage handling, in-flight care, etc.. They all play a major role in attracting and keeping business. This is planning.
However, there are disruptions and it's here where most airlines, here and elsewhere, fail to demonstrate their ability to minimise the inconveniences and by not keeping pax properly informed. The preference is to lie, buy time till someone finds out a piece of different information. True or not, that rumour spreads around like a fire in a fireworks warehouse. Now, it's out of control, and sometimes because of little money some manager refuses to pay. No big picture.
Staff is poorly trained to deal with the disruptions and passengers get obviously angry. You cannot buy experience cheaply. You'll not get experience if there is no periodic and professional training, retraining, line-checking, de-briefing, etc.. Line checking is also applicable to ground staff.
The service quality can only be seen when you are there, dealing with the problems and not getting 100%s in classrooms. Also, IOSA and other certifications are so nicely and conveniently handled that they keep in place ever looming deficiencies. But top management is very happy and makes press announcements feting the occasion.
The root causes are very diverse. It's poor management, training, self-accountability, evaluations, government interference, etc..
I noticed that in this part of the world, a lot of poor management derives from lack of real-time experiences and ends up with autocracies where it's the boss' ideas counting and no other, without going down to "the floor" to look for feedback and sometimes revealing ideas from the line guys.

[buba]

the only feed back the management got from 'floor level' is through the programe 'my idea', personally think that kind of money orientated feed back caused alot of greif for the flying crew in general.some ideas were implemented without serios thought (india trn arounds, reduced crew on certain sectors, the csm workin in bussines class,min rest in bah, etc), as a result some of these back fired and caused ripples, leading to these 'ideas' to be reversed but not without causing ireversable morale damage.

[shazar]

I will definitely not say the quality of service in Gulf Air exceptional but I would call for a consistent review and continuous improvement, and one of the key things is product innovations. I also think enormous work is needed at this time as the airline has one owner. Ad hoc changes and lack of stability in management over the past few years affected the service delivery enormously undoubtly.


I don't agree that majority of locals are bad in service, neither expatriates are good, and this is based on more than 17 years of extensive personal and business travelling across regional and international destinations. Not to forget tha Gulf Air had been an award-wining company not far ago. It is very simplistic and unfair to describe majority of locals clueless about the industry and the job is merely a monthly source of income. The case is proptional and I would be pleased to read a report or study contrary to my opionion. Best Service comes from best working culture (which include a range of factors such as people, procedures, system, foods, .etc) but certainly it does not come from specific gender or nationality. I don't have particular stereotype or bias towards a nationality or gender when it comes to my understanding of service, even Bahrainis!


Kuwait Airways has preference to hire Lebanse nationality in their cabin crew and service-based area, but many complain about the quality of service. Can we say it is because of Lebanse? Absolutely NOT. Similarly, Why Middle East Airline have not surpassed others in service if they have the best nationality in service? In fact, I never heard or read about excellence or award being granted to Middle East Airline. Obviously, we need to examine the complete picture and leave the bias behind us.

Professional selection and development are the bottom-line, not gender and nationality stereotype. By end of the day, Gulf Air is a Bahraini international company and obliged to hire locals but at the same time maintain equality and diversity of manpower to balance social and commercial arguments, whether we like or not.


I agree to an input about alcohol offering by Bahrainis working in the airline. I personally do not consume alcohol, but it is fair enough that job contracts and requirements are honoured.

[Sal-e]

Shazar,

I see where your concern is coming from.
The Bahraini workers are not to blame for standards (or lack thereof).
The real issue is not Gulf Air's only but could have been any other airline.

I think Gulf Air's senior local flight attendants are some of the industries best. They are very experienced and professional, some having been in the industry some 25+ years. They know service.

The problem lies with the high turnover rate of cabin crew. This inevitably leads to a small portion of experienced and professional staff while the vast majority are very inexperienced. Currently, the ratio is about 15/85.

What makes this noticeable is the fact that GF has an ageing fleet. Which means the only thing that GF has to offer is it's service. This also means that our cabin crew are under more scrutiny than cabin crews whose airline has an award winning in-flight entertainment system.

The way to solve this is to simply stop the high turnover rate and get that service experience base growing. It does not necessarily mean throwing more money their way (though this will help) but to improve conditions in other ways to make staying with GF attractive for them. Maybe allow more tickets to go home for the weekend or simply by treating them professionally and as a real asset of the company.

The fact is that flight attendants are the 'face' of the airline. If they are not happy, it will certainly show in their service at the front line.

[buba]

one of the best assets gf has at the moment (speaking relatively to other departments) are the crew. to be honest am amazed they even have the enthusiasm to drag themselves onto the crew bus for the likes of a 3 sector night shift. as flight crew we are all maxed out to the limit and sometimes beyond, over time this has worn thin on the morale. those who chose to leave to greener pastures did but not whole heartedly.
gender/race aside we have a good team whose willing to stick it out through the thick and thin, so its about time they got there dues.

[brassplate]

gulf airs 'my idea' is a sham.
it's a way for management to make money out of others miseries. the proof is the head of HR himself, banana boat, trying to make a quick buck by slashing staff privileges.
the answer is right under their noses.

REDUCE NUMBER OF MANAGERS AND OFFICE STAFF!!! (now numbering more than EKs whose fleet at least doubles ours)

'my idea' is also naffs cowardly way of getting others to say the obvious.

REDUCE NUMBER OF MANAGERS AND OFFICE STAFF!!!

leave crew alone.

[ODMEA]

I stand by everything I said about GF. I have spent enough time with the carrier on ultra long hauls mostly, medium haul and extensive short haul. Have you been on a MEA aircraft of late? Youngest fleet in the region, tri lingual cabin crew(immaculately dressed and groomed) IFE which puts GF's to shame, need I go on? No, it's not SQ but it sure as hell is embarrassing when a wor torn country can provide such standards compared to a supposedly wealthy Gulf State. They also did it without expat help-why GF keeps recycling its strategic staff from abroad is quite telling.

The local males on board on the whole have been negligible in service standards and enthusiasm-please dont insult the many 1000's of $ and 100's of hrs I have spent in GF's premium cabins and witnessed this. GF ground staff are not much better.The arrivals desk is a farse and shambles at best of times. The men who tag luggage at premium check in are also usless...I have suffered many silver J tags when infact flying F. Check-in agent dosent notice or even look and why they dont tag the luggage themselves is beyond me.A small example of attention to detail GF has lacked for many years compared to its glory days.

The Chefs, female cabin crew and a select few cabin managers are the best in the region-they have always been nothing less than genuinely friendly, concerned and professional.

I agree GF was a fantastic airline, it was that impression which started my loyalty to them, however, enhough is enough one can only tollerate poor standards for so long.Would you keep spending hard earned $ on an inferior product/offering?-I doubt it, especially when periodically one hears of improvements which never seem to materialise. Things like changing livery and uniforms is beyond comprehension when so many other areas need adressing. The livery is one of the best in the world and yet they think it needs a change-priorities?:ugh:

I'm also sick of paying to fly with duck tape-I have learned many ways of applying it to various objects now.

Please dont take it personally. GF is failing itself and its potential, let alone its pax(loyal ones at that). I was the laughing stock of my GCC collegues for a while because I remained loyal to GF while they all jumped to EK. The problem with the region is that critisim albeit constructive is all too often taken personally and enegrgies then targeted at defensivness rather than rectification. My loyalty speaks for itself and I think it also gives me the right to vent.

As with GF, downgrading my status rather than try keep me, you have hit back. That downgrade was final straw for me. If it were SQ who had dropped me down in status for lack of loyalty I'd have kept my mouth shut because the product is there, always was and most probably always will be! With GF it went a long a time ago and never came back. As I said in my reply to GF's manangements email to me "GF has not honoured its part of the 'loyalty contract' of providing the product which maintains loyalty"

Indeed if you are local I do very much understand watching a national icon be citiisized is not pleasant. As an Aussie the negative press Qantas has received of late indeed sadened me because they are a great airline.

I would also like to share that because of my posts on pprune, which I dare say have been leaked to GF management, I have received an email from them. That was most humbling and professional on GF's part, thus I do agree GF has the potential and the staff to do it. GF needs overhaul and deadwood removed - be it local or expat - because it's obvious that the end poor product is a result of lack of executive strategy and/or implimentation. Work ethic is a major contributor undoubtedly!!

I'd also like to thank the pilots for many years of safe flying. Never once did I feel my safety was being compromised even though some of the fleet did look sub standard indeed. My GF A332 model sits on my desk wih pride and brings lots of good travel memories with it. Lets hope I can relive all that in the future.

Sorry for the long speel I'm def in a venting mood of late.

Oddy:)

[Icarus]

Gulf Air only has a high number of managers in title - they are not really managers. This sprouted from the lack of increments and pay rises over the last 12-15 years where I believe only 3 years saw a bonus and perhaps two a CPI applied at 3%. In order to negate the (real) loss of income due to this, departments spent a lot of time rewriting job descriptions to allow a grade and/or title change. There are staff in Gulf Air doing exactly the same job they were 10 years ago on, Grade-8 who are now Grade-11 just to recover the financial losses from no CPI. What the company then does is outrageous as these staff are now entitled to greater leave, greater allowances, greater non-financial benefits that erode the companies postion more so than if increments had reasonable pay rises had been applied over the period.

What Gulf Air really needs to do is already known and has been for a great number of years; yet it is not practiced or perhaps practicable for them to execute. That is to weed out dead wood and run more efficiently. The ratio of staff:aircraft is way too high to be profitable or for business processes to run effectively. Corporate and Political will is required to clean up and quite simply, as eveyone knows, that will never occur. Very sad for an airline that was once the envy of many, most of whom are now flying a lot higher.

It may just be that the best that can come out of it is that Gulf Air simply ends up as some University case study on how not to run an airline.

[buba]

icarus, your right some weeding is necessary but that might not happen so the next best thing is just prevent the dead wood from making active decisions regarding critical and sensitive matters be it big or small.i just wonder how much this dead wood is costing the company compared to other factors such as:

aircrafts on ground due to delays,technicals etc:heard it costs between $75-400 for every min the aircraft is parked on the ramp for whatever reason.

lack of spare parts.

leasing delapitated aircrafts that,apart from the lease money, costing an arm and a leg to fix( EO,ER,EP and the recent ET,ES that spent the better part of their service on ground due to maintenance issues).

abusing the 767 beyond repair, finally fixing them and letting them go at the beginig of the summer peak. most of their sectors were operated by the 320/321 with half the passenger capacity and almost zero cargo capability.

expensive yet substandard catering and cuttlery.

the inability to retain flight crew( that cost alot of money and end up leaving in a couple of years if not months)

inadequate time gap between individual arrivals in the wave systems that eats up feul as the flights are held/vectored for miles on end before landing into bah(some instances feul lost could be anywhere between 200 -500 kilos).

in the end its bad desicions that are killing gf...i rest my case.

[shazar]

Mr Sal-e … Certainly I agree with your point of view on service and thank you for the background on the situation at Gulf Air.

In regard to compensation issue, establishing a compensation & benefit (C&B) system (intrinsic factor) and administering quality of working life questionnaire (extrinsic factor), both are good imitative to resolve motivation barrier. I heard many people are not happy about the new C&B system, and this is very expected everywhere. You can never please people about money and benefits, especially when the system is not being established before Company start and maintained up-to-date with the market trends. But that is not the problem of the employee nevertheless. Company should monitor people development and make good use of them through employability, rotation or transfer (internal employment policy). As the Company grows, it increases its base of well-experienced manpower without the need to constantly bring new bloods, often inexperienced perhaps adding a more financial burden, or allowing competitors to snatch best talents. Thus it focuses on business development and expansion. I could give examples from reality.

I been on MEA flights before. It is a rule of thumb that cabin crew members must speak foreign language(s) besides their native one and that is not a point for discussion. In a recent flight to Frankfurt with Gulf Air, I met presentable quatrilingual cabin crew, can I assume that an indicator of an exceptional service? NO. (Coincidently to note, most HR departments in Kuwait, have focus on image and language capacity than behaviour and personality. Use of Psychometric tests and personality assessment tools are declined in most companies, including Kuwait Airways. I recall a Lebanese colleague working in customer service and interviewing applicants, he writes clearly without any sense of embarssment; too much make-up, nice face, heavy weight ..etc perhaps he is hiring for fashion show! And I think this is why selection methods here are so primitive and most of the time based on racist grounds and stereotypes) When I travelled on MEA, I did not have had a very good experience in term of service and it was precisely a problem of improper communication (but that is an individual situation and it is not fair to generalise). Most disturbing scene to me; all cabin crew members are Lebanese nationals, no single foreign nationality. An airline is an international company operating overseas and dealing with different backgrounds, races and nationalities. It MUST have DIVERSITY. I know for instance British Airways hire Arab speaking cabin crew. One nationality = lobby = unique culture = unique politics = corruption, and the privatised Kuwait Airways is an example. Skytrax, a global airline rating agency, rates MEA as 3 star airline! That rating is equivalent to one applied to Kuwait Airways.

I found some insulting inputs in the threads such as without the expats, locals seem can’t cut customer service wise , ..etc all these are considered discriminatory, derogatory and racist terms in legal side of HR and could lead to legal actions if said or quoted in a work place of highly regulated job markets.

I greatly appreciate receiving a constructive criticism, but I would push back strongly those propped up by orientation on gender and nationality.

[Trader]

The merry-go-round goes round and round. These issues existed last year (new management has done little) and for years before that. NOTHING CHANGES.

The only explanation (cause I can't believe that successive managers are the problem) is the lack of political will to do what is necessary. Remember the big job cuts that were to happen!!???? Nothing. Round and round it goes.

Fortunately for the employees it remains propped up financially by the government. If that ends......................

[ODMEA]

They may be politically incorrect and slanderous if I were stating other than fact, however, the comments generally are fact.The proof is in the pudding- GF is falling apart.

MEA has restructured, got rid of 4000 employees closed offices cut routes and has made a profit for the last 3-4 years despite the termoil there.It has purchased all its own ac and standardised its fleet (which is why GF is getting ex MEA leased 332's). I'm merley using MEA as an example of how it can be done; MEA have a volatile political landscape to contend with which by rights should have been the cause of MEA's demise by now!!!

MANAGEMENT is the key word. GF has 'supposedly' done the same - where are the results? What is GF's excuse? BAH has been soley in control of GF for a year now-where are the results?

Please also do not play the racist card with regard to gender or origin. The male cabin crew as with ground staff are generally very poor operationally. Fullstop. Try and acknowledge the problem without becomming defensive.

GF has created all its own problems..not me(the pax), not the pilots, not the cabin crew...who else is there left?......think about it - who owns GF, Who runs GF?

I will always have a soft spot for GF I loved the airline and flying it. God knows I had plenty of choice from Sydney to EU and GCC and ME. Please dont misinterpret the intentions of my comments-If I didn't care I wouldn't bother posting.

GF could be so much better.

Oddy:)

[brassplate]

TOO MANY MANAGERS AND VICE PRESIDENTS. THE PINK PALACE IS FULL OF USELESS HANGERS ON.
CUT THE FAT!!!!!!

[shazar]

Ok, there were some questions and I am ready to put answers.


We are talking about two transition periods in regard to Gulf Air. Old problems are legacy of old managements during period of four shareholders; (history; passé compassé), not current one, not pilots, not cabin crews. Etc. In a nutshell, no one except old managements.


Once last shareholder (Oman) withdrew, positive changes started to surface up:


·Assigning forensic auditors to comb financial books and arrest thieves; GF has never been able to bring any official under accountability except now because of corruption and nepotism. This was not only in Bahrain, but even extended to external offices outside Bahrain such as Saudi Arabia.


·Ongoing re-engineering flight networks; more and more people are talking about improvement in punctuality and new destinations are planned, couple were launched lately if I am not mistaken.


·Buying new planes; all past contracts and bank loans arrangements reached deadlock because of lack of commitments from other shareholders; current plans approved and signed off.


·HR system in place; GF has never have had performance management system, despite many people are hot happy with it; like everywhere. Even new legal Bahraini counsel being hired was dismissed subsequently; the case is performance, not nationality! Even Mr Dose, previous CEO was dismissed for many observations inclusive of washing dirty linen in publics about redundancy and losses, thus damaging corporate reputation.


Complaints about compensation and politics spread are everywhere and across many sectors.

It is clear there are two opposite mirrors; one started to shine and materialise, while the old one was gray and getting worse!


Indeed, Gulf Air did not make any profit this year and I recall a posting on this forum late July 2008 about the losses. Please read this link for the causes http://www.alwasatnews.com/Today/Issue-2207/loc/--/788762.aspx (http://www.alwasatnews.com/Today/Issue-2207/loc/--/788762.aspx). The speaker is the highest authority of GF and owner, and annual reports of Mumtalakat could confirm.


It would simplistic to think that Bahrain could resolve GF millions dollar losses and problems inherited from old managements over many years would be resolved in one year. Reforms have cost as much as in case of losses, it is not starting from scratch and forgetting the past. This is not a love story. I repeat what I said before on this forum, I don’t think Bahrain government wants to spend public money without getting revenues, especially that GF success or failure has direct impact to other economies in the Country. For investors to come, the Country must have a good airline. I personally do not think GF is falling part when there are order for planes, new destinations are open, ongoing recruitment, ..etc

I can understand why some people behave defensively to MEA and other airlines and that is not a shame, I find it an honour to have similar attitude towards my national airline too. That does not cause me any embarrassment.

I am more cautious, addressing facts and figures is not like being picky on stereotypes and generalising up to 95%! I have showed the insulting comments to a British Chartered HR colleague here affirming my point of view, and she said; ‘this is racist since no ground or figure affirming its accuracy, it can be generalised that service is behind, but not stating figure to highest extreme such as in statistics and targetting certain gender or nationality.Qouting nationaity and gender in the context and contrast made are clear racism. Even legally, this is classified as refutable statement’

[Krinkle]

Would love to know what you're smoking Shazar!

The only case of corruption which had charges lain as a result of the Kroll auditors was a couple of people who ripped of Hajj pilgrims to the tune of a few thousand dinars - this is from an airline which has by its own admission lost millions to corruption. They kept Mike Kent here for the best part of a year before he was allowed to leave without charge and...er...that's it. Seems suspicious no other corruption was found...Oh, and the cost of Kroll's 'investigation'? $5million. Pathetic.

Oh, and Dose was dismissed? My understanding was he quit because he couldn't work with the straight-jacket of a board who know nothing of aviation second-guessing every decision, especially if it meant job losses for Bahrainis. Dose's main problem was he told the truth.

really, I've only been in Bahrain five years and yet even I have seen the same pattern of big promises and zero delivery from this joke of a carrier over and over again.

[shazar]

Thanks Krinkle for your sense of humour.

Certainly you have had no access to Kroll report with what you have said. Corruption was not in terms of people only, it was embedded in business practices introduced by ex-managements . An instance of that is the overtime and how it was abused as reported by a board member. Please try to get an access to Kroll report to judge yourself.

I would like to be objective as always, Dose did a number of good things such as talking directly with local companies to examine how GF can offer good service and help them plus other things. He was also very realistic about situation of the airline. But he nevertheless did many management mistakes and the worst was talking about mass redundancy and losses in public many times. Briefly, washing dirty linens in publics and adding more water to the mud. I watched and read couple of interviews for him stating: ‘we are not punctual, we are not reliable’. These could be addressed internally, not exposed to public! This is true marketing to other competitors and I personally took it as a call to travel with other airlines. Truth may sometimes kill business rather than revive it. If you are managing a company? Do you want to talk about your problems to public to make your situation worst or trying to ameliorate it and then talk about good results? I read on local press and from pilots and cabin crews about improvement in punctuality. That what we call in management as 360 degree service! It was very generous and costly gift from Dose to competitors. I know that Etihad had a temporary office to hire GF employees! I think he even had plan to have flights to Zurich, based on a local press, please correct me if I am wrong. What would affect Dose if he has to accept the existence of audit committee, he is the CEO and reports to the Board. (Do not steal; do not be scared). Previous managements were left to do what they like and this indulged the airline in more losses and some were not happy about it. When the new management started to be a grip and control, people started to complain too. I don’t know what would be the magic prescription ?!

You asked me a personal question about smoking and I do not smoke. Let me give you advise and please do not take it personal or as sarcastic way. It is now Autumn season and you could find blueberry in the market imported from Lebanon. Please try it 3 times a day over 3 days and see how your thinking will change! I think you smoke too and this will help you to give up cigarettes. We need to think hard before we jet down any statement!!!

[Trader]

Dose's public comments do not work in Bahrain because it was a loss of face for the Bahraini government. In Europe such comments are normal and are made to show that the old way of doing business is over. His comments were in fact positive in that he was showing that GF would be improving its service which, by the way, was and is know to be dismal.

His comments were the thin edge of the sword. The sword being the cuts that were to be made in employees, corruption etc.

I don't think it gave any competitor an advantage but did the opposite. Spread that word that GF's service would be improving.

But saving face was more important. To be fair though GF is a big employer and sacking hundred of Bahraini's would not have gone over well politically (despite that fact that it was, and still is, needed).

[buba]

just wonder how much having excess staff is costing gulf air, and by how much is it contributing to the a million a day losses (keep in mind most gf staff at the offices are paid peanuts.. no housing, schooling fees, minimal travelling benifits i.e mostly economy..no huge bonuses if at all any etc etc)

[ODMEA]

Ill say it again the local male cabin crew and ground staff in general are poor operationally and definately not to the standards of the female multinational crew which includes Arabs - the fact they are isolated as Bahraini is becaise GF only employes local Bahraini males(and Omanis in the past) thus making them easily identifiable. Furthermore we are all part of the same human race tell that to your learned British collegue.Thus racism is a myth. My heritage is Arab and I'm very proud of it so please calm yourself in that regard.

MEA is not my national carrier, Qantas is. But I admire MEA for its perserverence and success and its CEO's business acumen - against what should logically be a failed carrier. By rights I should not be comparing it to GF as GF has a much larger fleet and route network. Maybe GF would be better off getting MEA in to consult on how it can be done? MEA would be a fantastic example business case for any MBA student! MEA was the carrier in the region in its pre war glory days. It shot down into dissaray but after yrs of terrible operation has risen again. That is the point I'm making. GF seems to be going throught the same cycles, albeit for different reasons. MEA is owned by the Central Bank of Lebanon and as such was still able to overcome politics and internal bickering to get the job done.

I'm not saying MEA or the Lebanese are better or worse-I'm giving you a regional example of successful airline restructure to the same extent GF needs restructuring, no more no less.

Once again address the issues of instilling a better work ethic into cabin crew and ground staff and not become defensive. When your front line staff are substandard any other problems which a pax may encounter are further magnified. When your front line product is execllent people are generally a little more tollerant when other things go wrong, thus GF is behind the eight ball from check-in let alone on board.

I know GF is trying but nothing is showing at grass roots level i.e. where the revenue comes from - the pax! Lots happening in the palace as you guys call it.
BUT:

To Sum up:
I want to see a difference at check in, boarding process, on board from seats, IFE, food, when I have a problem on arrival etc... when I call the call centre and have my questions answered efficiently, when I need to transit and get a hotel voucher or connect flights, when I have a flight delay...this is where GF needs to concentrate. By the time you resolve your 'managerial' issues your pax wont be around. EY, EK, QR are breathing down GF's neck yet GF doesnt seem to have any sense of urgency about anything. Is it any wonder I jumped ship?:confused:

I think we are going in circles here now and we have each respectively made our points. I hope to see tangible action with GF because when I do I will be the first one back on board!
Enshallah eh?

Oddy

[HELL BOY]

NEW aircraft New destinations:D …. But look around :rolleyes: you I heard many staff are leaving and many who been kicked out been brought back with a VARY good package .

GF in time performance is Zero … and I was wonder what is the plan to fix it up.

[Che Guevara]

ODMEA

Thus racism is a myth.

I have to agree with you, it is merely nationalism and ethnic tribalism, something that has, and will remain a part of human nature for a long time to come.

Cheers

[Che Guevara]

buba

just wonder how much having excess staff is costing gulf air, and by how much is it contributing to the a million a day losses

I don't know what the average wage in GF is, but an airline this size in Europe (30 aircraft) would have approximately 150 staff per aircraft or less, requireing about 4500 total.....GF has about 6000 I am told. Therefore, find your average wage, multiply it be 1500/month and there is your answer. Incidentally in the US it is about 120/aircraft.

(Actually you would have to figure the total cost to the company including allowances, benefits etc.) The end result is quite small considering the projected losses etc., but it is still very relevant.

Chao

[buba]

approximtely the avg wage of an office staff is a bit on the low side relative to other well paid jobs (the 5000-36000 dinars mark) and a combined low benifits package..the avg wage would be 750 dinars..lets pump it up to 1500 dinars (over estimate avg) month. initiallyA. dose wanted to get rid of 1500 staff..and i believe most of them werE from the low to mid salaried bracket. by doin the math, converting it to dollars.. comes up to roughly $200,000 a day thats 20% of the total 1 mill a day..so that leaves us with another 80%....yet again i could be wrong

[DesertHawk]

not sure why u guys are wasting ur time talking about this?

[buba]

just curious mate

[bus787]

Shazar this is a rumours network .

Does it mean all your comments are only rumours.?

You have valid points put them on newspaper or on the CEO desk so something will be done not vent it here.

Could be you are one of those trying to make a change and the sytem is not letting you?

[Chuck Y]

I guess we should all start thinking of a leaving present for Naf, not much longer left before he goose steps his way back home.

[Desertia]

I work at the petrol factory and it's the same mess here as it is at GF: Too many Bahrainis rubbing their hands with glee at the opportunity to be a "manager" without actually doing any managing.

It's obvious from all of the flights I've done this year that morale at Gulf Air is at an all time low, and it isn't all about remuneration.

Any London or Bangkok economy you do, especially night flights, involves spending a couple or more hours with a tray stuck in your stomach because the seats are too close together; the number of people tapping the guy in front to ask them to put their seat forward just so they can eat is embarrassing.

Having half of the number of cabin crew they needs means that unless you're in the right spot the food and drink takes half the flight to get to you and subsequently get cleared, so passengers end up piling all the debris in the galleys in disgust.

I fly in Business a lot of the time and for the last four flights someone has been complaining about the entertainment system not working - people are paying good money and receiving crap service, and it seems the powers that be have forgotten that SLF do actually have a choice.

They should make every manager in Gulf air do at least one London or Bangkok night flight in a middle economy seat - without telling the cabin crew they are on board - and then maybe the lazy arsed toerags will realise that they need to be a bit more proactive and show some concern for their passengers to justify the salaries they receive.

It's even worse at my place because getting senior people to make decisions is now a joke, and we've increased the number of chiefs by a monstrous amount leaving a reduced number of indians (and that's no pun) to shoulder the workload.

I hate to say it but the work ethic is simply not there and when the leaders can't be arsed the rest will follow.

It's a bit like the fat arsed bigheads in SUVs that insist on driving in the emergency lane to avoid traffic jams. It only takes one to do it and every tom, dick and ravi will follow.

What it needs is senior management with a bit of steel to draw the line and start demanding results; can you see that happening when they have their own nests to line?

[Panama Jack]

No. Nor does Gulf Air sell training for outsiders.

[Mephistopheles]

Has the Banana man been relieved of his position? If you check your email there is a memo from "Brent Miles (Actg) Chief People Officer".
Finally, maybe some good news.

[Icarus]

No. The former on leave and the Welshman acting on his behalf.

[wapses]

Chuck Y is correct. Strong rumours around (again) that Naf will soon be gone.

Good riddance to the smiling puppet assassin.

[Mephistopheles]

Icarus, that's very presumptuous of him to call himself Actg Chief People Officer. Normally, the big boys get someone to deputise on their behalf but I have never seen one of them give himself a new acting title. Maybe, we should import somemore sheep just to put a bit of fear into him and give him something to do on his days off!!!
On the brighter side, why don't we submit some changes to Mr Banana's package whilst he's on leave? Reducing his leave allocation by 10 days would be a good start. Also, I wonder if he is enjoying the 2 days travelling time included in his leave!

[Radar Contact]

Did the B man get sacked yet ?
Is Gulf Air leasing anything from CP and Air Asia?

[GAGing in Bahrain]

I saw him at the Desert 400 this weekend but he didn't look his usual cheerful self. GF was there in force with 20+ Gulfies, including Gulfie the mascot. Maybe they are grooming him for the position?!?!

Off subject, I must say the girls were looking exceptionally sharp with the checkerboard veil:ok:.

[6_DoF]

Lights out literally at the pink palace tomorrow, maybe a corporate Who Dunnit event. With so many suspects it could be a real blood bath.

[Che Guevara]

Care to elaborate, not good at code...;)

[GAGing in Bahrain]

codes...uh....."the chicken is on the roof"......"I like a good Balti"....."How is the weather in Helsinki?".:8

[Mephistopheles]

Well nothing happened today at the pink palace, despite 6_DoF's predictions. Gulf air keeps trundling on aimlessly with no definate direction or management. Who cares what happens in the pink palace since it will not realistically have any impact on us. They will just keep trying to chip away at the flight & cabin crew, squeezing minute savings out of us until there is no choice but to look elsewhere. To call our 320s junk is a fantastic compliment, our 340s a huge 4 engined pieces trash & now our 330s have followed suit & are just as crap. More & more useless appointments being made by Naff & Banna. I am surprised that we have so many scum sucking leeches with the word "strategy" sandwiched between a bunch of other useless words as titles!!!

"We need to continue our momentum today and tomorrow is ours."

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! What momentum? All I see is us sliding on the toilet seat of obscurity into the s***.

[Sleekspirit]

You guys really need to get out more...

When will you learn. Rumours are just that. Rumours. I appreciate that is the point of this site but it would be nice to see some new ones instead of the same old rubbish every few months. And these are just so dull. Come on, lets get some new ones. PLEASE!

Honestly, if you spent half the energy finding yourself a new job as you do whinging about your current one then you would be in a much better place in your life.

Here is a solution for you and you can have it for free. Get out. If you don't like what is going on then leave. It really is that simple.

You guys are just embarrasing yourself by continually complaining without offering any proper solution or leaving for 'greener pastures'. You are like the fly who has never seen glass before. "Buzz, bump, Ouch it sucks here. Buzz, bump, Ouch it sucks here. Buzz, bump, Ouch it sucks here." Yawn.

Time to reclaim some self respect and go if you really think it is that bad.

:ugh:

[boiler]

Keep hanging in there Mephistopheles, I heard help in the form of (wet/dry) leased planes are on the way sooner than you think.

[Panama Jack]

Sounds like the Cabin Crew had a 'fun' meeting in the simulator centre with Management today. The impressions they've gotten from a number of them was one of disappointment due to the reaction of certain members of the management team-- lots of double-talk, non-commitment, denial and re-proportioning the blame on the crew themselves, especially with respect to rostering and crew-welfare issues.

It is truly tragic, as Cabin Crew are the most visible and most frequently-encountered front-line employees of the Gulf Air product. In a recent Airline Business article (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/article.aspx?liArticleID=318033&PrinterFriendly=true), the Company spells out some pretty ambitious goals. Successful companies recognize that the critical spark lies not in the hardware or software, it's in the liveware. However, how ours hopes to accomplish the stated objectives and committments (which were emphasised during the meeting) with demoralized and disrespected front-line employees is beyond me. :confused:

[Che Guevara]

Lights out literally at the pink palace tomorrow

Yes, there was a power cut at the Pink Palace today and yes, we do know who dunnit...well done 6 DOf. What an anticlimax...

Mephistopheles
You Sir have managed to descibe a rudderless ship perfectly. The wonderful thing about this company is that someone always comes along with:

Keep hanging in there Mephistopheles, I heard help in the form of (wet/dry) leased planes are on the way sooner than you think.

Thanks Boilermaker, you have got our hopes up again....maybe a part time job over at the GDN for you Sir? :)

[boiler]

Hey I just am relaying what I heard through the grapevine. I hope it's true as well. You guys deserve better planes than that.

[Che Guevara]

Boiler
I was suggesting that you get job at the GDN.....positive spin if you know what I mean. ;)

Yes, there have been rumours of 345s from KF (don't know their IATA), 346s from QA, space shuttles from NASA and so on...we have also heard sooner than you think for a long time now.....the big problem is that as in the GDN, talk is cheap....when they are actally sitting on the ramp, then we'll go out and fly them. I like anybody else here have heard a lot of talk, but now we need to see the walk..

Chao

PS Hope the shuttles are not dry leased! :)

[boiler]

I know how frustrating it must be getting a lot of empty promises. However, I heard this time there might be more "hope" in things being true given the dismal fleet situation GF is currently going through. There are a few airlines out there that are downsizing due to the economic situation (Cathay, Kingfisher and Jet are 3 prime examples) so some aircraft are available (unless other airlines went for it before GF).

[Mephistopheles]

I am sure we will be getting aircraft very soon but in what shape? The crap that the commercial dept??? got for us actually make ours look good. It's all very strange since neither ops nor engineering have any input into which aircraft to lease. It's all done by people who seem to have very little idea about aviation, or business for that matter.

[Sal-e]

I understand 6 B777-200s are on the cards. The first couple will be wetleases until our own crew are trained up. Maybe I'm wrong but who knows? If that ever materialises, I wonder how they're going to chose who's going to fly it. Some say it will be based on seniority, others say those with Boeing backgrounds will be prioritised, others say only locals. Who cares? The birds have to get here first.

[ironbutt57]

Almost everybody here has a "Boeing background" for sure the most senior bunch on the big bus do...anyway so what??? The bigger they are the farther they go..I'm staying put...

[ironbutt57]

That's the Krispy Kreme Kremlin to you Che:}:}

[Che Guevara]

Thanks IB..all is clear now!

[ODMEA]

Well GF will for sure get 3 very decent birds - ex MEA A332's. They were brand new from Toulouse to ME and been with ME for 4 yrs? The rest in the hands of the gods from what I gather off pprune.

Oddy.

[Mephistopheles]

If they ever get any aircraft, maybe a 777 here or there, then you can bet they will go on seniority. There has already been enough stink caused from the 76 guys trying to bully their way onto the big bus or into training. So believe me this time things will run strickly on seniority.

[ironbutt57]

The 76 guys didnt try to "bully" their way into anything, it was simply the plan we were told as per the seniority (by time in seat) that existed at the time...when the PROPER seniority was set in place, then the 76 guys were slotted in appropriately...and yes I rest assured any new fleet types will be crewed as per seniority...

[Sal-e]

Too right, IB. Staying put is Sal-e due more home time.

[Radar Contact]

The 3 330's are due to arrive in March'09

I think they will be KG, KH and KI

I thought CX got rid of their A346... Seriously, If QR can't run the A346 due to fuel prices and expensive cost of using the aircraft I wonder what GF will do and where they will position it ?

They are in SERIOUS crappy situation.

[boiler]

From the latest I hear, the "bored" are screwing GF because as of now they are refusing to bring aircraft from Jet Airways because a number of former GF people are working there now. They would rather bring in 15 year old aircraft than to deal with Jet. Sad! :yuk::yuk:

[wapses]

GF really is now one mightily screwed up airline.

A board with no airline experience attempting to run the company through a puppet CEO.

Most of the senior managers in the commercial division in "acting" roles. Can they not decide on who is competent to handle which positions?

A fleet of increasingly tired and dirty aircraft. Of which the "old" A340s and the A320s are a real disgrace. If, as rumoured, EY are going to start Athens and Istanbul next year with new A320s, then GF can kiss goodbye to competing on those routes with their unacceptable product.

Pity really because Bahrain has the potential to be a really good hub ... and of course the Gulf Air brand could still be revived if the company was run by professionals.

[saviboy]

Is gulf Air still interviewing airbus rated pilots?
can anybody predict how long they will be recruiting?

a friend of mine is looking at getting an interview but it will take him a couple more months to meet the requirements

thanks

[Panama Jack]

I don't forsee, saviboy recruitment ceasing anytime in the foreseeable future, as they will need to address both their growth plans as well as attrition. Good luck to your friend.

[KANELA]

hi everyone,
anyone here knows if gf thinks to open destinations to spain? madrid or barcelona?
thanks

[Sal-e]

I heard Madrid on the cards.

[Bombay HF]

Is there a need for Spanish labourers in Bahrain?:confused:

[skywaytoheaven]

Yeah sure Sal-e, what will we be doing that on? the 777? absolute Bravo Siera.

[Albergineman]

Among all these "developments", does anybody have any idea how's the training status?
How many F/O's are joining?
What's happened to PAC?
Will GF resume the mentioned 4 upgrades a month as mentioned before?

:hmm:

[Sleekspirit]

Thumbs up :ok:for CEO Bjorn Naf for shelling out money from his own pocket to top the monetary reward for a loyal GF chap from maintenance who apparently came up with a bright idea to save our airline's monies as part of the "myidea campaign".

Bravo :D Bjorn keep it going, wonder how many Ceo's do that or how many former GF ceo's have done so. It was a tremendous turnout at today's inhouse Majlis and congrats :Dto all the employees of the month. Well done also to :O Mr. Ahmed Al Banna for coming up with the initiatives. Gulf Air is certainly changing for the better.

Apparently there was a meeting between CEO and all divisions today to highlight achievement and way forward. 2009 looks like a challenging yet prosperous year for GF from what i hear. We are going to give competitors a run for the money...

[brick in the wall]

Sleek Spirit,are you on drugs?

[Che Guevara]

Albergineman
I think we are now training our third group of type rated new hires since they started recuiting again recently. In fact they have been interviewing again this week.
Now there is something else for Sleekspirit to celebrate....

[Mephistopheles]

Sleekspirit, what the hell have you been smoking?

[Albergineman]

Thank you Che for the information it seems to me that PAC will resume soon and Sleek, please share with us what you know!!!

:ok:

[Instinct]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a ball park figure with regards to how many actually are being offered employment relative to the amount of people being called for interview. One would've thought that GF paying for flights and hotel during the selection process is a good incentive for them to get people through, or is that just to much of common sense for an airline company?

Any idea?

[Che Guevara]

One would've thought that GF paying for flights and hotel during the selection process is a good incentive for them to get people through, or is that just to much of common sense for an airline company?


If an applicant is successful at their assessment, then they are usually offered a job, but they must satisfy the required criteria and achieve the necessary standards required during the assessment period. Anybody can write a good curriculum vitae, so no getting a ticket and hotel room does not gurantee a job I'm afraid.

[Chuck Y]

Guys don't forget to wake up in the middle of your rest to check your AIMS since rostering are now even too lazy to send a mispelt text informing of a delay. Also make sure your start your stop watch when you get on the airport bus otherwise you may be called up to the 1st floor.
And, finally under no circumstances tip the bus driver for lugging your heavy suitcases on and off the bus.

[bus_aviator]

Hey fellas, this is my first post, so try to keep the laughter to a minimum. Q. For you fellas flying out there under a JAA ticket, how do you go about keeping current (1 flight every 90...200 per year) with your respective CAA's you communicate your hrs to them? and the yearly exam? do you go back and write it...trying to get into this expat business and don't have the slightest clue.

Many thanks

ps. chasing this thread for a while you guys are a hilarious batch :ok:

[skywaytoheaven]

They convert your JAR licence to a Bahrain CAA licence when you get here. All your a/c ratings done here are on that.

I just keep the medical current on my JAR licence, all the a/c ratings have lapsed, if i want to go back and fly single engine I think i have to do some sort of prof check? Doesn't seem much point in keeping the A320 rating current on the JAR licence unless you want to get a job back home, even then your new employer may give you the rating once you've done the sim with them (maybe).

[bus_aviator]

thanks skyway, cheers

[Instinct]

I wasn't suggesting that GF employ people not reaching a certain standard, merely that maybe they spend more time trying to get the right candidates to interviews, rather than like some, call 100 guys, let them pay for it and take the top 10. You follow?
I asked for a ball park figure, I guess to try to confirm my thesis and have a better picture as to what the circumstances are walking into that interview. I obviously don't think a ticket equals a job, that would be plain stupidity.

So, any idea?

Regards

[Panama Jack]

anyone here knows if gf thinks to open destinations to spain? madrid or barcelona?

I remember hearing a few months ago that Gulf Air identified over 50 possible destinations to fly to. It wouldn't surprise me if a major Spanish city is on that list, however, I would think that presently there are other cities that are more attractive from a commercial point of view (ie. Casablanca) that we are not flying to.

As more airplanes arrive, I suppose we will see.



Sleekspirit Shhhhhhhhh!!! :oh: :oh: :oh: . The Bahraini MP's will have a field day if they find out what they put in the Kool Aid at the Majlis.

Five bars already closed in capital-
Bahrain Islamists, Liberals unite to ban alcohol (http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/11/06/59627.html)

[.Aero]

The Bahraini MP's will have a field day if they find out what they put in the Kool Aid at the Majlis. They aren't too happy with GF, and for all the wrong reasons!

Some MP is p***ed off as he's found the state of Israel on a drop down list of countries on GF's website! [link here (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=234708&Sn=BNEW&IssueID=31239)]

Doesn't he know the King of Saudi and the Israelis' are having dinner together at the UN Interfaith sleepover party?

[Panama Jack]

What drop down menu would that have been? You mean the Visa requirements one powered by IATA's TIM?

[Che Guevara]

PJ
I heard it has something to do with the frequently flyer program and place of residence....now better get back to the manequins shall we. :rolleyes:

[.Aero]

I heard it has something to do with the frequently flyer program

Yes that's it. FFP online application or something contained the state of Israel under a 'country of residence' drop down list.

[ODMEA]

If any of you still have a copy of an early 90's paper timetable book Tel Aviv appeared most prominantly as a destination city with arrivals and deps from various GF served cities.

Bit late to get upset 20 yrs later:ugh:

Oddy.

[Panama Jack]

So, who cares? If an Isreali resident (citizen, foreign resident in Isreal, diplomat, whatever) wants to join GF Frequent Flyer program he should be able to. Doesn't mean that he will come to Bahrain. Heck, with the way things are going, why will anybody even want to come to Bahrain in the future with the exception of working or transit?

OK, back to discussing the great evils of alcohol, nightclubs and manequins.

[Icarus]

Many Israeli's use Gulf Air and route in via Amman - Manila flights have regular travellers that use this route and have done for years.

Also, as mentioned earlier, this appears in a drop-down list from the integrated link to IATA Travel Information Manual (TIM) for document and health requirements; Gulf Air has no ability to filter this and as I understand that is stated on the web-site.

About time the Bahrain MP's focussed on real matters; afterall it has been five years or so now since they were first elected and all that has been seen are attempts to stop people hanging out their washing on balconies, movement of foreign labour outside of the village walls, pop singers banned, cultural events blasted, mannequins deemed pornographic and on. Whilst the roads are a mess, housing is poor, and the law is an ass.

[Panama Jack]

My point exactly. All sorts of personnae-non-grata or inadmissibles are able to transfer via airports in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Doha, Bahrain, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc. who are otherwise inelligible for one reason or another to enter the country that the airport sits on. It is an advantage that carriers such as Gulf Air have. It is good for business, and the business of doing business. Likewise, Gulf Air (or Bahraini MP's) shouldn't care too much if it is carrying sex-tourists to Bangkok, or people returning from Jeddah on Hajj or Umrah so long as they are buying tickets on GF, rather than on the competition.

Of course, dealing with real issues is too difficult in most parts of the world. That is why politicians, beit in Manama, beit in Washington, pull out the red-herrings, the low-hanging fruit, for political points. :ugh:

[wapses]

The FFP membership correspondence is apparently sent to the London office for mailing to members based in Israel!!

[panchi]

how come they are not hiring from manila anymore? i think it's been a year already.

[Che Guevara]

Panchi
Maybe if you went to the Cabin Crew forum they might be able to give you answer.

Goof luck

[Mephistopheles]

Surprise, surprise the new roster will be delayed. Why doesn't Antoine & his gimps just admit that they cannot prepare a roster with the current deadline. Maybe the short f*** has too much pride to step up & admit it?

[Fubaliera]

Just did the interview with Gulf Air. Very professional, from human resources to the check pilots. Good hotel, 3 meals a day,city tour, lunch with Hr. If the interview process is a sign of how the airline is run I really want to work for Gulf Air. Ive down interviews with QR,(passed)EK(holding pool)Kingfisher(passed)NX(passed) and Air Astana and by far in my view the most professional process. All the staff I met from cabin crew,security guards, drivers,nurses, all top notch. People considering EY or QR should take a look at Gulf Air. There not the biggest in the middle east but by far the friendliest.

[TZZ]

Gulfair has the best and friendly crew environment in the region, good training standards and good instructors.

[ironbutt57]

He did admit it would be late and why, I suspect the earlier in the calender month the roster period commences, the harder it will be for them to get the details from commercial needed to publish the next roster..all departments have daily hurdles to cross, lets try to be a bit more understanding shall we?

[boiler]

Latest news I have heard from a source is that a GF team is heading to India to get some aircraft. Maybe there is still some hope after all.

[Chuck Y]

Rosters are late for the 330/340 due to cancellation of some lucky guys' leave slots.

[Che Guevara]

touk

I also heard we have no financing whatsoever for the massive order GF put in with Boeing and Airbus...


Interesting rumour from touk, one that I feel is highly likely. I mentioned before in another post, like what we read in the GDN everyday, talk is cheap however it is now time to walk the walk....only time will tell of course.

[Sal-e]

Throw in the current financial state of the world, maybe that rumour is truer than anyone is giving it credit for.

[Chuck Y]

A big congratulations to all the F/Os on the 320 fleet for NOT carrying out their pre-flights correctly:D:D:D
Nicely done guys, thank God there were no engine problems on EO for 64 sectors.
Then again maybe it's the training that the guys have recieved that might be leading to the falling GF standards?

[Sal-e]

F/Os only? Please elaborate.

[Chuck Y]

Last time I checked the FCOMs it was CM2 responsibility to do the fire test. Maybe it's changed then?

[Mephistopheles]

Still no roster. What about doing fire tests???

[Panama Jack]

Are the boys and girls in Rostering working late today, by any chance? :suspect:

[Chuck Y]

Guess you guys need to be trained when a full cockpit preparation has to be done & when it is ok to omit most of checks & just do to transit stop items.
As to commanders responsibility I agree with you but then I also rely of my number 2 to carry out his checks correctly. Maybe I will have to start questioning the guy on my right to make sure he has had good night's sleep, packed his bag himself, has brought his license & passport with him & ,if he going to get "jiggy" with some of the hosties, then has an adequate supply of condoms.

[ironbutt57]

I find most FO'd do it whether it's "required" or not, if not then I do it myself..airmanship (common sense) should prevail shouldn't it...

[40&80]

Fire warning system tests were also a "Mandatory" requirement on the ground engineers "Daily check".... when I was at GF.

[Chuck Y]

Unfortunately touk we will never have the pleasure of flying together so I guess you shouldn't relax too much.
Ib76, if you have any idea how to carry out a fire test on the airbus I would be very surprised.

[.Aero]

Can someone tell me what these "fire tests" involve?

[ironbutt57]

Pushing the test button and observing the indications...it is/was a part of the daily check....I'm full of suprises Chuck-Y:ok:

and...apparently the folks did pull an all-nighter..rosters are out!!

[Albergineman]

ENG 1 – ENG 2 FIRE

· ENG 1 and 2 FIRE pushbuttons.........................CHECK IN and GUARDED
· AGENT 1 and AGENT 2 lights............................................CHECK OUT
· ENG 1 (2) TEST pushbutton.................................................. ..PRESS

Check:

ENG 1 (2) FIRE warning on ECAM + CRC + MASTER WARN light
ENG FIRE pushbutton lighted red
SQUIB and DISCH lights on (this item seems not have been checked)
FIRE light (on ENG panel) on

:ok:

RMK:

It is pointless to press the master warning light while performing this test, since this is not part of it as per Airbus SOP. Doing this you are basically testing the FWC!

:ugh:

[Sal-e]

The FCOM also states that you check it if it hasn't been checked. If you know the 'daily' was just done, then I guess that counts as the test being done. In any case, checking it every time you board on your first flight never hurts.

[condorbaaz]

Any news of any wet lease of 330 from India in the near future?

[Albergineman]

The carrier has 59 planes on order (35 Airbuses and 24 Boeings) as it partially renews its existing fleet of 27 planes and plans to add three planes and three destinations each year until 2013.

In 2009's first half for sure we will have at least 3 ex-MEA A330's. If there is any additional aircraft I believe it can come from Airbus as part of the previous order.

Some A320's would be welcome this year as well!

So we have four years to go that means 12 airplanes and 12 destinations until there and for sure more pilots to join (we have already 40 under selection/training process) and seniority list moving on.


:ok:

[mkdar]

Fire test??? :confused:
SOP ? CM2 ?:confused:
Huuuhhh?????:confused:

I don’t know who said that in GF , don’t bother reading the SOP, if you wait 2 weeks, it will change any way.

It’s funny how does the topic drift away from it’s intended cause , I do agree however, that fire test and all other pre-flight checks are common sense , be it mentioned in the SOP or not.

[midseal]

and needless to say, it is still performed wrong when its done ( Airbus ).

i.e. Both loops have to be tested...
Meaning while performing the fire test, after you cancel the first warning, one still needs to continue to hold the fire test button for the second loop test...

RTFM gentlemen...:ugh::ugh:

How do you like dem apples ?

[Che Guevara]

midseal

The Airbus Engine Fire test does not require cancelling the warning as on other types because both loops are checked simultaneously when depressing the Fire Test pushbutton. If you have information to the contary please let us know your source, in fact better still, please advise Airbus so that they can get an AD out rapido.

Now lads, what is the latest on the triple 7 rumour? Any ideas on the all new and improved livery...heard the new uniform is red and white...;)

[Albergineman]

I think they will be wet leased...

[Panama Jack]

With the wide variety of discussion topics within this particular thread (and others like it over the past month) including some very nuts & bolts types of topics, it makes me wonder why there isn't a "Gulf Air" forum in the Airline Specific Private Forums section of PPRuNe.

Something to be considered, perhaps?

[brassplate]

why bother with a 'gulf air' forum? we ain't big or influential enough. this thread will suffice as it's generic.
speaking about growth, why should gf be growing when our neighbours are treading carefully in light of present world circumstances? is gf nuts? you guys seen the drastic drop in loads lately? more ways to bleed more money.

[condorbaaz]

Che
in the 330, you need to keep the fire test pressed, cancel the warning, and check the wx on ecam for eng 2 bcoz one button checks fire wx for both engines..

ergo in a multi fleet it nay be standardised for type viz airbus

Regards

[Che Guevara]

condorbaaz

Thank you for your input, are you sure about what you said though, because FCOM 3.03.06 specifically does not mention cancelling the warning....hmmm, must be Airbus again..
By the way you had us confused with wx......didn't that used to mean weather?

Chao

[Albergineman]

There are at least two misunderstood concepts regarding engine fire test in the Airbus:
First:
On the A320 series, each engine fire system has its own fire test pushbutton. On the A330/A340 series there is only one engine fire test pushbutton that perform the test simultaneously on all engines.
Second:
Pressing the Master Warning light during the test does not have any effect and it is not part of the procedure at all. There are cases of serious misunderstanding specially on the A340, where pilots and even engineers (!) press the master warning light four times (!) believing that doing this they are “testing all four fire system”.
All this information you can find on the respective FCOM 1 chapter and FCOM 3 SOP.
:ok:

[daidalos]

Albergineman, you're right about the FCOM. And since you seem very knowledgeable about procedures, any idea why if you keep pressed the fire warning, the audio and visual warning, in the A340, is repeated 4 times?

[Che Guevara]

Because you have just tested the entire system 4 times perhaps...

Assuming the FCOM is correct, then all four systems are tested simultaneously when you press the pushbutton just once. Nowhere does it state that you need to cancel the warning and then press again etc. If I am wrong, or indeed Airbus is wrong, perhaps we should have the FCOM amended.

Guys can we move on to the 777 wet lease perhaps..

[condorbaaz]

or the kingfisher lease perhaps...


BTW, pressing the Master warning only stops then CRC, as we all know and probablr keeps a quieter cockpit while you chechk the ecam memeo for eng 2(3)(4)

Thanks che, wx corrected in previous post

[Albergineman]

That’s it guys!
While performing this test you can see the Eng1 Fire ECAM action on the left side of the upper ECAM screen and ENG2, ENG3 and ENG4 Fire memo on the right side of the same screen. This is one of the signs that all the system is been checked simultaneously.
About the Jet Airways’s B777 I can guess they will come under wet lease agreement at the beginning and hopefully, in the later stage, become part of the GF fleet!!!
:ok:

[Instinct]

I'm getting the impression that people are either on the 330/340 or on the 320-series.
Is there, or do you think there will be, any possibility of flying mixed fleet in GF?

Thanks

[Che Guevara]

Yes, we fly both 330 and 340 at the moment...I assume that is mixed fleet flying is it?

If you are referring to the 320, the flight instructors fly 320/330.

[Instinct]

Thanks Che,

Sorry for being unclear, I meant 320/330, i.e. short/medium/long haul. I know what I wanted to know now though, so thanks for that!

All the best

[Capt Hair Y Balls]

About the Jet Airways’s B777 I can guess they will come under wet lease agreement at the beginning and hopefully, in the later stage, become part of the GF fleet!!!


........and who knows they may just throw in Mr Hameed Ali as an added bonus:D

[ShirleyNot]

Doesn't Jet have the 777-300ER? Why oh why would GF need such an aircraft? Yes wouldn't we all like to fly such a machine, but it makes absolutly no sense with the present route structure. The a/c is built for ULH, GF is a medium haul airline. If they bring this a/c it shows yet more poor decision making from our lack of planning department. As for Manila and Shang, they can be nicely covered by A330s.

[Che Guevara]

and would the 330 make JFK with a full load, or back from Manilla in the winter months now that you mention it?

[ShirleyNot]

JFK? Full load? this is PPRUNE I suppose.

[Che Guevara]

Mine was a question mate, nothing to do with PPRUNE or whatever....

[boiler]

There is no way the GF 330 can make SHA of MNL (unless it makes a tech stop). It would probably upgrade some destinations (like MNL, LON, BKK, etc..) to better services esp. those using the old A340s.

[MaffiFaloos]

Garbage. The 330 will go anywhere GF wants to go with ease

[Albergineman]

I think we should disregard the B777 I had mentioned before. A330 is the best option for GF, obviously.
We should consider that these wet leased aircraft could allow GF to send some of the A330/A340 for some heavy maintenance they really deserve.

:ok:

[bus787]

When is the first delivery of the new GF mega order Due.??

Any delivery dates or is it just an order on paper?

[.Aero]

I believe the year mentioned was 2016 for the 787s

[Che Guevara]

When is the first delivery of the new GF mega order Due.??
Any delivery dates or is it just an order on paper?


A320s start coming in middle of next year for starters. A330s to follow and the 787s starting in 2016. (talking about the new ones here) suspect you will see some leased ones arriving before the end of the year. ;)

Chao Inshallah

[Mephistopheles]

Our 330's can do MNL with ease. In fact I have done one trip back to Bah on it.

[Bombay HF]

The Jet 777s are going to Turkish Airlines i'm afraid, not GF.

[boiler]

Actually only part of the 9W 777s are going to Turkish, not the full fleet. 3 or 4 out of 7 of the B777.

A330 is the best option for GF, obviously.

That depends. Economically speaking, 215 seats is not enough to make things work. You need a higher density arrangement (I estimate an A330 needs to have at least 240 seats to economically justifiable, but this could change with cheaper fuel prices).

[ShirleyNot]

The A330-200 range is around 6700nm (only 500 nm less than an A340-300) while the A330-300 is around 5600nm. The track distance BAH-MNL being 4400nm, it shouldn't be a problem for said 330. The 330-300 can seat around 290 in 3 class config so that should up the numbers.
The 777-300ER has range of 7900nm and engines that would eat an airbus for breakfast, but i can't see the point in us aquiring them.

[dragon330]

4 777's are going to GF. The contract is in the process of being signed. Wet-lease in the initial instance.

[vomit comet]

its 2 777s wet lease for 6months and then gf crew take over...

[Panama Jack]

Aparently, a bomb threat today at Headquarters. In spite of the emergency exercise yesterday at the airport, "this is not a drill." :uhoh:

[SilveR5]

Hey Panama Jack..

How did you come to know that??

[boiler]

the A330-200 range is around 6700nm

Is that with pax payload only or full pax+cargo?

[Panama Jack]

How did you come to know that??

Professional Pilot Rumour Forum. In the airline business, there are generally more rumours than employees . . . so I have heard throught the grapevine.

If you are insinuating something else though. . . no, sorry. I am not the type and I hope they catch the perp. :hmm:

[SilveR5]

Panama Jack..

I don't know what the hell is wrong with my eyes..almost dropped the word rumours! :}

& no insinuation :ok:

[The Lessor]

3x 777-300ER for GF, and possibly 2 or 3x A330-200. Initial wet lease, going dry after six months or so. Not sure when, but expect delivery soon...

3x 777-300ER going to Turkish and 2x A330-200 maybe for another ME carrier;)

The Lessor

[Che Guevara]

This is good news! :ok:

One thing for certain in GF is that the Bush Telegraph is usually very reliable.
Well lads, keep your ears to the ground and a sharp eye out on the ramp for any strange birds.

Chao

[wapses]

Stories around this week of two big Executive Search companies (Spencer Stuart, Heidrick & Struggles) being called in urgently to find a new senior management team.

Any truth?

[Che Guevara]

This is also good news! :ok:

Interesting rumour anyway...

[Albergineman]

I heard also that the simulators are for sale!

:{

[.Aero]

I heard also that the simulators are for sale!

I wonder if they'll place an advert in the classified section of the GDN as they did with their 767s.

[REACH-69]

I guess the senior pilots are happy with the head of crew planning ,cause they get the best rosters and their requests are granted........good luck to the rest:ok:

[Not too small]

I heard he's in and little more but........
Any idea who is the guy .

[Heleheleyani]

There are some good news on the letter to pilots, does anyone know if the Jet Airways 330's wet or dry lease, and the possible airplane types for the replacement of 340s mentioned in the letter, also by february we are going back to monthly rosters so we can request 4 days + 4 days off at the end and beginning of the roster periods :ok:

[Albergineman]

They are wet-leased

:ok:

[capgemini]

do we really need wet lease ,if some of our a/c gone be grounded for tech ? and why BAH -KUL BAH-BKK AND BAH-LHR ?

[stefan1138]

When are those 330s coming and how many?

[Panama Jack]

also by february we are going back to monthly rosters so we can request 4 days + 4 days off at the end and beginning of the roster periods

Are you sure about the 4 days off thing? I read the CP's newsletter today and for all the reasons given for the roster adjustment in February, this one was not mentioned. I hope you are right as this is a major life-quality issue. Fingers crossed.

[Radar Contact]

When are those 330s coming and how many?

March'09 - 3 ex MEA ILFC

[Che Guevara]

March'09 - 3 ex MEA ILFC
Yes, and when are the Jet Airways ones coming, I think that was the question regarding wet lease?

[stefan1138]

As per the Aerotransport.org database, one new 332 is due for delivery to Jet in December. Might well be, that GF gets this new bird through the wet-lease.

[Albergineman]

The fourth one will be brand new from Airbus.

:ok:

[Not too small]

The A/C are dry lease .
two of our A/C are going for maint and cuple of pilots are on transfere course to 330 not 340.:E

[EGGW]

Leave it with me, i've had requests from QA guys as well. Not promising anything.

Thanks,

EGGW

[Not too small]

i just called the office and asked whether the new 330s are wet or dry leased A/C .
you would be amazed withe the answer.

[SubsonicMortal]

Are you waiting till Christmas to tell us? :sad:

[Che Guevara]

another eejit in our midst.

[Not too small]

sorry
Its dry lease.

[SubsonicMortal]

Okay, dry lease is good news. That means 4-6 330's heading over before mid 2009. Interesting times ahead indeed.

[stefan1138]

So it is definetely 3 A330s from MEA and 4 A330s from Jet?

[Che Guevara]

Nothing definate until you are sitting in them.....

However, before everyone goes off the rails speculating on who is going to fly what and when, just remember that they want to get rid of some, if not all of the old bangers and hangar queens....:D

chao

[Dragon 83]

Two from Jet on Wet for 3 mos, then Dry. Starting in a week.

[Propellor]

Checked from the horses' mouth:
Wet Leases:

Two A330s from Jet Airways on Wet lease, starting ASAP, and continuing for a few months.

Could be followed by another 2 A330s, also from Jet, and also on Wet Lease.

Negotiations for some airplanes (could be any wide body) to replace our A340s in days to come. Must be good for long haul. Intially on Wet Lease, followed by Dry lease, when we have trained the crews.


Dry Leases:


Four A330s in the second quarter of 2009.
Some number of A320s to replace the current ones.


E. & O.E.
Prop

[Propellor]

The ASAP is already here!
Check the AIMS for flights to KUL - they are with Jet Airways aeroplanes!

New phrase: Jet on Wet !!!

[Radar Contact]

The ASAP is already here!
Check the AIMS for flights to KUL - they are with Jet Airways aeroplanes!

New phrase: Jet on Wet !!!Hey,

Can you supply the registrations? I am just interested as no Jet bird was seen in BAH.

Regards,

P.S: If the deal goes through, it means GF will have for the first time an A330 that is not RR powered engine which sucks :(

EDIT: This is not the first time GF leases from Jet, they had an A340 running BAH-ATH 2-3 years ago.

[SilveR5]

Radar Contact..
sorry for going off topic...what does "RR powered engine" mean?

thanks

[Yo767]

It means you have no ******* business on that forum.

[SilveR5]

Yo767 ok..let's see who asked you even! may be you are one of those angry dismissed 767 fleet!

care for you own business

[capt_zman]

Rolls Royce

[SilveR5]

Thanks Capt_zman

respectful people still exist!

[ironbutt57]

Yo767 ok..let's see who asked you even! may be you are one of those angry dismissed 767 fleet!

care for you own business

Chill man!!..nobody was "dismissed 767 fleet"(whatever that is) most airline people would know what "RR powered" aircraft meant..and that was his point..

[zero CRM]

Jet is doing KUL tonight. All prime layovers(kul,bkk,Lhr) will be gone to jet till march.But the good news is all DEL,ISB,BOM,CCU turn arounds will stay with GF pilots.Mr Ant...ne really loves us.

[Mephistopheles]

Don't get me wrong, I have just as little respect for that piece of crap Antoine but in this case I can see why they would want the Jet 330s on the routes with more premium pax since their cabins are infinately better than ours.
Just checked AIMS & it seems that it's not wet leased since our guys are operating Kul tonight. Don't know how that works since none of us have even been given a handout regarding the differences.

[Radar Contact]

Today's KUL is A340 so I have no idea where you got the info from :eek:

[Mephistopheles]

Hope your not in the flight deck with us RadarC since you can't even read your AIMS correctly.
GF280 A333 VT-JWD

[Not too small]

what is wrong nobody can read or the aims is driving us crazy like management .
now it shows reg VTJWD and its 333
and its CAPT M Salman GF pilot.
nobody knows wht the hell is going on.
.

[Sultan85]

:D:D from the AIMS : 333 = A330-300 wich as almost the same size of our A340-300 with 2 burners.

[Che Guevara]

Well I guess the AIMS is wrong....(wouldn't be the first time nor the last) None of us have validations to operate an Indian registered aircraft, and none of us have done a differences course for the 333, therfore it would be the 'wet leased' crew operating then....assuming the aircraft is here, or maybe they are hedging their bets...

Chao

[Radar Contact]

VT-JWD is an A330-243 so AIMS is WRONG again.

VTJWD did not arrive Bahrain soil yet and it's an RR engine for SilveR5 :)

[Heleheleyani]

The crew operating to KUL tonight is DHD back with jet 330 that means they are certainly wet lease even though on the AIMS it still shows our crew operating them in the following days.

[SilveR5]

Radar contact: Acknowledged :ok:

[Propellor]

Seems that the KUL was planned for the Jet-on-Wet, but the ink dried too fast, and it had to be replaced with ole' GF A340 - obviously, with GF crew.

Capt. M.S.? Was it a 48+ hour layover? Oh, I forget, the roster sections drink champagne, too. Sorry, carbonated grape juice!

Back to the operation: we are replacing the A340 on the BKK run with an A330 of Jet! Either we have considerably lost the load, or the COO of Jet has negotiated a better deal for his new colleagues at the cost of his former ones, or our planners have gone bananas!

[bus_aviator]

just did assesment

bad organization it seems nothing was pland they changed sched as they went. I'm still sleeping in airport trying to get home

[Not too small]

this makes me worry why do jet airways have the night stops and our crew have to do the bad blocks.
Who is paying the other GF or JET
In the old days when we wet leased A/C they had to do the long days and short stops why this time its different.
I think we will see our old management flying from BAH on jet air.

[Jet_Settin]

For those of you wondering -

The company(Jet Airways) is at an advanced stage of concluding lease out of aircrafts as follows :

Mid December to Mid January, 3 B777 wet lease to Turkish Airlines for 6 mths
Thereafter the 3 aircraft remain on dry lease to beginning of 2011

Within the next week, 1 A330 Charter/wet lease to Gulf Air for 3 mths plus 1 additional A330 around mid december

Beginning April, the latter 2 A330 may transfer to a Gulf carrier for approx. 24 mths on dry lease

Mid February, 4 B777 wet lease to Gulf Air for 6 mths

Thereafter, the 4 B777 remain on dry lease for 18 mths


These are not rumors....i work for Jet....A330 captain.....got this letter from my VPO 2 days ago.

[Mephistopheles]

Jet_Settin, very interesting news. Now we can all sit back relax & watch the bun fight for who is going on the 777. Should be fun.

[Jet_Settin]

Also the 2 A330s..... VT-JWD & VT-JWE are both "RR" powered.....and we have been told that we will be operating only KUL, BKK and a quick return to Cairo.

The seating is 30J/196Y

Regular business class layout....180 degree recline...and not the herring bone design....as these 2 A330's are leased out by Jet itself....unlike the rest 10 330s which we've bought.

[Mephistopheles]

Jet_Settin as per our AIMs you guys will do 7 BKK, 5 KUL, 1 CAI & 1 BOM per week. Welcome to Bahrain hope you enjoy your stay here.

[boiler]

Strategic planning? Vision? Anything?

If I am not mistaken, there were no B777 available for lease 6 months ago. The sad economic downturn has made them available now. GF might as well get them and retire the older A340s that are costing it an arm and a leg to operate. More reliable and newer aircraft to replace older and tech-prone aircraft. I am sure many will also agree the B777 is a superior aircraft to the A340.

[PAR31]

Hello,
Did they start with non type rated interview?
Thank you.

Par31

[Che Guevara]

PAR31
I think there are still lots of type rated people available, so no, I don't think so.

Cheers

[.Aero]

So it's now official (http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssIndustryMaterialsUtilitiesNews/idUSBMA00197120081208) according to Reuters.

It would lease out two aircrafts to Gulf Air Company for four months.
Under wet lease agreement, the operational control and maintenance responsibility of the aircrafts would remain with Jet
And in other (http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081208/BUSINESS/980610331/-1/OPINION) news:


Gulf Air, which was forced to pay spot rates for jet fuel when the price was as high as $190 a barrel, is now preparing to take its first hedging position.

“We have approved a hedging policy to the board and are looking at banks for hedging instruments,” said Bjorn Naf, the chief executive of the Bahrain flag-carrier.

Mr Naf said Gulf Air would purchase fuel on the futures market to lock in prices and lessen the risk of continued volatility. “In the long term I think it will go up again. If you hedge now you can hedge to your favour.”

The hedging contract is likely to be a three-year position, with Gulf Air purchasing about 75 per cent of its fuel needs for next year, 50 per cent for 2010 and 35 per cent for 2011, he said.

[ShirleyNot]

$190 a barrel? When did it get that high, I thought it topped out at $147 or so.

[ferris]

Possibly because "jet fuel" and "crude oil" are different things?

[Mahmood Alsitri]

Hi !

Any news about the 777?

Gulf Air will lease them or no?

Regards

[brassplate]

great news. can't wait to get off the bus and fly a real plane.

[Mephistopheles]

I wouldn't hold your breathe brassplate. Even if they do show up there will be such a bitch fight & ,of course, a new & improved seniority list. So take some advice & just sit back & enjoy the show. Believe me it will be fun listening to all the cheap b******s making this & that excuse on why they should go to the 777. Just get a family pack of cotton buds ready for all the crap that's about to flood your ear holes.

[brassplate]

but of course they'll invite the recent 767 drivers first if they value saving time and money on training. it will be a great idea for the "MY IDEA" program.

[Chuck Y]

I believe they will first put the guys with "those old cute boeing" cartoon stickers on their nav bags onto the 777 then the rest of us in reverse order of seniority according to the last time you really truly enjoyed a crew meal.