Gulf Air Developments

[ShirleyNot]

i doubt it.

[DesertHawk]

DUH and IB and everyone else making petty arguments about cadets. to me it is simple. how can u expect a 200hr cadet with average at best initial training to be comparable to a 3000-5000 expat direct entry? it is not a criticism just a fact. when i was 19 and had 200 hours i would struggle doing a 320 course also. so yeah they do struggle the key is are they trainable and for the most part from what i have seen they ARE. so anyways just thought i would point out the obvious as these simple facts seem to be overlooked and the blame game takes over way to often here.:ok: and also it is hard to simple math when the aircraft is doing 250kts and u are used to 100:):ugh:

[stefan1138]

Does anybody have a picture of the new A320 A9C-AB?
According to a discussion on airliners net, the livery has been slightly modified for this plane.

Thanks Stefan

[GF-A330]

http://www.ameinfo.com/images/news/large/9/87459-GulfAirAircraft.jpg

[Radar Contact]

That's one FUGLY paint :}

[ShirleyNot]

Please tell me thats not real - looks like its been dipped in sh*t.

[T O G A Boy]

Thats not the right colour. The picture is way too saturated. Look at the grass and judge for yourselves

[Panama Jack]

An interesting new font chosen for the brand name "Gulf Air" on the aircraft.

[boiler]

U-G-L-Y font, very ugly. I suppose JPA had to somehow justify the millions it was getting to do a GF makeover and this is the best they came up with.

[behramjee]

Dear All,

This is to inform you that Gulf Air will be reducing their BAH-LHR flights from triple daily to double daily effective March 28th 2010 i.e. from the on set of the IATA Summer 2010 time table.

Basically, GF 3 Dep BAH 1005 Arr LHR 1520 and GF 6 Dep LHR 2025 Arr BAH 0610+1 have been terminated.

All of this is now reflecting in all major GDS systems.

[gtaflyer]

well it looks like a tuk tuk...come to think of it it does have three pair of :}wheels

[left_to_first_class]

I suppose GF will make more money from selling its slot at LHR than flying it - unless it gives it away at a bargain (which it has done in the past to AA and 9W).

[Duh]

Although the thought process of "thinking outside" the box doesn't lend itself to the area very well, they should have taken that one flight and continued West to JF n K. Or even DTW. Yes DTW, which has largest muslim population in the USA. Or maybe not. :}

[fractional]

GF twice daily is enough for Bahrain even considering onward traffic as long as on either direction, there is a morning and an evening flight.

[wapses]

The incredible shrinking airline.

Five daily LHR flights not too long ago 2xBAH, 2xAUH, 1xMCT.

Then four.

Then three.

Now two from next March.

Then???

[left_to_first_class]

Twice daily is enough, the third flight was only introduced when Oman pulled out of GF and they decided to try a third rotation.

[cayclone]

thats true ,

[Da Do Ron Ron]

GF 3 Dep BAH 1005 Arr LHR 1520 and GF 6 Dep LHR 2025 Arr BAH 0610+1 have been terminated

That's a blow, my usual flights :confused:

[wapses]

I recall there was a lot of fuss on here when GF decided to fly to Iraq. Planes would be blown out of the sky. Crews would be in danger.

All gone very quiet recently!

Maybe it's fairly safe after all to fly to Iraq?

[T O G A Boy]

Bang on waspes... Unfortunately there are sad individuals who have nothing better to do than blowing things out of proportion. Baghdad this and Baghdad that. So Far things have been going smooth and i have yet to witness a negative comment from crew who've operated there...

[boiler]

Basically, GF 3 Dep BAH 1005 Arr LHR 1520 and GF 6 Dep LHR 2025 Arr BAH 0610+1 have been terminated.

GF will have to reverse this decision and cancel the GF5/8 instead if there are any people there who do a proper study on this. There are way too many markets that would be lost by canceling the GF3 vs. canceling the GF5.

[Radar Contact]

Looks like Gulf Air are really going full throttle. A9C-AC went to the paintshop in Norwich, looking beautiful for Gulf Air :ok:

[Mike.Park]

Gulf Air union to protest management pay hikes


MANAMA, Oct 22 (Reuters) - The union at Bahrain's Gulf Air is calling on members and employees of the loss-making carrier to start labour action to protest against pay rises for senior management amid planned lay-offs, a union official said.

Union head Mustafa al-Tooq told Reuters a sit-in was planned at company headquarters on Nov. 5

'After the sit-in we will proceed with strike preparations,' Tooq said, adding that strike could come two months later.

Any escalation in the conflict between management and unions could burden the restructuring process under the new chief executive Samer Majali.

Three chief executives have tried to turn around Gulf Air since 2002, cutting jobs and realigning its network as previous shareholders Abu Dhabi, Qatar and Oman exited the ailing carrier.

Tooq said unions were protesting recent pay rises for senior management and 'disrespect' of management towards unions during restructuring.

He said management had never seriously responded to workers' demands to negotiate a 2008 increase in working hours to 8.5 hours per day from 8 hours.

'The Gulf Air trade union is an important partner within this process with whom we engage on a regular basis,' Gulf Air said in a statement in response to questions from Reuters. It did not comment on the pay raises and other union complaints.

Unions have said Gulf Air plans to lay off 272 employees by the end of the year, with management saying it only planned to cut positions through natural attrition and fire employees for misconduct.

Majali told Reuters in August the carrier might renegotiate plane orders with Airbus and Boeing.

Source: Gulf Air union to protest management pay hikes - Forbes.com (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/10/22/afx7031878.html)

[411A]

Yup, I was going to start a new post, but...GF 'union'?
Are these guys smokin' dope, or what?

What a bunch of misfits...'union' in the middle east.
Ha!
Misdirected malcontents of the highest order.:ugh:
About as much chance as a lead balloon.:eek:

[Desert Diner]

until there is a serious clean-up (read: reality check)

It should more likely read as a serious interior clean-up.

I have just completed short trips on GF, EY and EK and must say that the GF interiors are by far the most tired and dirty.

This whole GF livery revision reminds me of the old phrase "polishing a t:mad:rd"

[Skybeds]

I think GF will unveil their new cabins.interiors etc n the airshow on january.. I agree the old rivalry looked great but the golden looks more royal. but the GF cabin compared to qatar airways looks like a flying garbage can.

[fractional]

Pay rise
Tooq said unions were protesting recent pay rises for senior management and "disrespect" of management towards unions during restructuring. He said management had not responded to workers' demands to negotiate a 2008 increase in working hours to 8.5 hours per day from 8 hours.
If what Mr Tooq says about the pay rises is true, it is disgusting to see that the story is the same as in so many other places. Usually, they send people packing while the big shots get a pay rise.
Ref 8.5 hours a day, well they should be actually 9 with 1 hour break for lunch or ensure they all work effectively 8 hours a day plus a 1 hour break or series of smaller breaks as long as the don't exceed 1 hour altogeher. Let's say, start at 07:00 and end at 16:00, 5 days a week.
GF has to get their act together with management and staff working together. This piece of news isn't heading to a safe port...:ugh:

[boeingforever]

Our boss of Planning (Rostering, AA) now recently got a pay increase and now makes 4800 BD a month and yet this useles guy can not get the roster out in a manner of time so we can plan our lifes,this guy keeps the guys upstairs (Managers) happy and give them the blocks they want,thats the only reason he stays in his job,he is not even educated to do this job,he was hired by GF for an IT job.

The planning department have never been as corrupt as it is now !!!!

Now they are planning on laying off 272 Locals ? The big Boss should start investigating around and have a look at who to terminate,start with AA and get a local guy to do the same job for 1000 BD.

[Duh]

AA, whats that stand for?

[ironbutt57]

Our boss of Planning (Rostering, AA) now recently got a pay increase and now makes 4800 BD a month and yet this useles guy can not get the roster out in a manner of time so we can plan our lifes,

You cant put out a roster until the commercial dept. forwards the plan..when they change the plan last minute, then the roster has to be re-done..

[Duh]

Commercial Dept., is that also known as Marketing?

[DesertHawk]

IB- just curious when u are going to wake up and smell the coffee. AA is doing a horrendous job. forget the fact that commercial has screwed up on some occasions. just look at the fact u almost never get ANY requests and he has no control over any of his workers at all. the amount of illegal **** that goes on is plain shameful and he is responsible cause he is the BOSS. how about the fact that if u ever dare to ask him something his response is one of total indignant arrogant banter that ends with a great NO. IB u usually are pretty company but this is getting comical listening to u defend someone who is obviously in way over his head. Remember when our previous overlord was here?? we complained about him but in all honestly not half the corrupt stuff was going on and atleast he was nice and tried most of the time. anyways this will never change.......:ugh:

[ironbutt57]

Marketing sells the product, Commercial "planning" decides what equipment goes where and when, and seem to change their mind more often than their knickers, I suppose they also have pressures to make the airline as efficient as possible, so maybe last minute changes are a necessity to them as well...it's easy to spread blame all around at any company, I'm just a bit loathe to do do this, as I haven't "walked a mile" in any of their shoes!!

Yah the rostering issues are frustrating, and as usual, we wind up on the recieving end of it all...if you have something that is illegal, then refuse it, I have, some of the day to day crew controllers try to pull stunts, and one must simply refuse, just as we do when we are not happy with a technical issue the engineers or MCC try to urge us to do...it's the same game at most airlines...they have their job, the final responsibility always rests with us doesn't it...:ok:

[ironbutt57]

There are indeed issues with crew planning, as there are with every other dept.in the airline, at any airline, rosters are based on which fleet goes where, then that plan is changed by commercial halfway through the crew planning/roster building stage, then of course they have to start all over again dont they??

Bidding system....1) It doesnt fix everything....read the EK posts here

2) Our head of crew planning is/was a proponent of the
bidding system, budgeting was not...
Lay blame where blame is due, but make sure you have the whole picture...

[ironbutt57]

Unfortunately, the life style does suffer due to roster changes, I am at loss to understand the disparity between lines as well...beyound my level of comprehension, what I have suggested in the past, is interdepartmental "CRM" if you will, meetings between staff and managers of all departments, so we all have a better understanding about what the others are up against...while it was well recieved, the logistics of such meetings is a bit much i would suspect, and there are some "take it or leave it" attitudes in some people's minds for sure...

[hunter320]

i think the great lack of equipment in the company is an issue for all the changes, with some of our A/C in bad shape, and nothing of the same type to replace it on that particular route.
i have operated a big bird with a narrow body load, simply no A/C available.

[ironbutt57]

I do agree with Hunter, that equipment substitution is a big headache for all involved, the neglect has long caught up with them, and until that issue is sorted things will remain the same..

[Trader]

The bidding system at EK is light years ahead of GF. The complaints on the forum are minor in comparison to what the guys at GF put up with.

There is no bidding system at GF because that would mean the favoritism would end--so there are a lot of people who do not want to see it. AA doesnt have control because they guys on teh floor below are beyond reproach. The last heads of crewing left for that reason. JM used to pull his hair out trying to stop them. They double their income or better doing favours.

Cost---minor to add the module to allow proper bidding.

[SubsonicMortal]

Have a look at this:

This is from the AIMS company website. Does Gulf Air not have the modules already for bidding, trip-trades etc?

http://aims.aero/gif/diagramod.gif

I had a chuckle at this article on the net:

Gulf Air installs AIMS crew-management system (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CWU/is_2002_Nov_12/ai_94164266/)

..The automated system can also accommodate a range of user-definable crew preferences, thus improving fairness, crew morale and productivity, according to the airline...

[Desert Diner]

The bidding system at EK is light years ahead of GF.

That is because EK is "light years" larger than GF, and has the "numbers" to make an automated system work.

GF on the other hand is a small airline trying to run a network, meant to be run by a larger airline, with too many types of equipment.

No system would work under that type of environment without too many disapointments.

[Mike.Park]

Apparently there's been trouble in Bagdad, hundreds have been killed and injured

:sad:

[DesertHawk]

desert diner are u serious????? we have 3 types which 2 are CCQ and operated virtually as one type. and as far as size and network not sure what u mean. I have personally worked for companies that have charter flights and are smaller that have a wonderful bid system which was done very proficiently. i am beginning to realzie that at GF half the problem is people have never seen a real professional operation therefore they except and marginalize our failures as operationaly normal. we do not need a perfect system just a system that allows us to have some control over our lives. if u dont think this is possible please look at any company and realize how far we are behind the times guys

also.... looking at the aims module is a glaring example of what we dont have.

[Mike.Park]

Gulf Air to decide on plane orders by year end

Sun Oct 25, 2009

DOHA, Oct 25 (Reuters) - Bahrain's Gulf Air is in talks with Airbus and Boeing over its plane orders and expects to make a decision by year-end, the airline's chief executive said on Sunday.

The struggling airline, which is fully owned by Bahrain's sovereign wealth fund Mumtalakat, has 35 Airbus and 24 Boeing airplanes on order, but said in August it was reviewing its orders as the loss-making airline restructures.

"We are constantly in talks with the manufacturers to choose the plane and the number of planes that best suits Gulf Air," chief executive Samer Majali told reporters at an aviation conference in Doha.

When asked when the airline would make a decision, Majali said: "In the next few weeks, next few months ... but definitely towards the end of the year."

Majali did not say whether the review with Airbus and Boeing would lead to reduction in planes or a new timeframe for delivery.

The airline has seen three chief executives attempt to turn its loss-making operations around since 2002, cutting jobs and realigning its network as previous shareholders Abu Dhabi, Qatar and Oman gave up their stakes in the ailing carrier.

In 2007, the airline cut jobs and trimmed its network after reporting losses of more than $1 million a day.

It is also facing stiff competition from other Gulf Arab airlines, among the fastest growing in the world, with Dubai-based Emirates [EMAIR.UL], Qatar Airways and Abu Dhabi's Etihad Airways pouring billions of dollars into new aircraft orders as they looked to establish themselves as hubs between East and West.

Low-cost airlines including Air Arabia AIRA.DU and Jazeera Airways have also arrived on the scene.

Majali said from this October until April 2010 it would be phasing in 10 new Airbus A320s and removing five old Airbus from its fleet.

A union official at Gulf Air said on Oct 22 it is calling on members and employees of the carrier to start a labour action on Nov 5. to protest against pay rises for senior management amid planned lay-offs.

Any escalation in the conflict between management and unions could burden the restructuring process under the new executive Majali.

Unions have said Gulf Air plans to lay off 272 employees by the end of the year, with management saying it only planned to cut positions through natural attrition and fire employees for misconduct.

"We haven't done anything about restructuring yet," Majali said. "They had one demand related to working hours and said it wasn't the time. They actually had three demands. Once has been accepted, one under review and the third we said no, it's not time to reduce work hours and they decided to go to the press." (Writing by John Irish; Editing by Mike Nesbit)

Source: Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSLP69212520091025)

[Skybeds]

Well my guess is GF is trying to switch from 20 330s to 15 330s .And 15 320s to 20 320s. hopefully GF wont do that.

[Duh]

SKybeds, thats exactly what your little regional carrier needs. But it needs those 320's now. To bad you guys haven't figured out how to CCQ the 320 and 330. Second.. Your carrier is a small time and small minded outfit that doesn't want change because you could only improve or get better. The corrupted departments and the fact that Gulf Air is actually an employment agency rather than an Airline is and will be your downfall. BTW, the new CEO is just another in a loooong line puppets. :}

[Desert Diner]

desert diner are u serious?????

Only partially. I'll leave it at that.

i am beginning to realzie that at GF half the problem is people have never seen a real professional operation therefore they except and marginalize our failures as operationaly normal.

GD used to be a truly professional operation. Up through the 80's. The last remnants pretty much disapeared with the disapearance of the Tri Stars in the mid 90's.

You could pretty much say that the professionalism disapeared with the advent of the Busses. And that had nothing to do with the equipment nor the crews.

I'm not sure if any of you have been there long enough to know what I mean.

[Skybeds]

When GF wanted more business men to fly the airline.95% of the flights were delayed..

[brassplate]

wapses:

I recall there was a lot of fuss on here when GF decided to fly to Iraq. Planes would be blown out of the sky. Crews would be in danger.

All gone very quiet recently!

Maybe it's fairly safe after all to fly to Iraq?

moshber:

Bang on waspes... Unfortunately there are sad individuals who have nothing better to do than blowing things out of proportion. Baghdad this and Baghdad that. So Far things have been going smooth and i have yet to witness a negative comment from crew who've operated there...

Twin Baghdad blasts kill scores - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/10/26/2723646.htm?section=world)

you two are absolute tossers. this thing ain't going anywhere soon. stay well entrenched up your anuses and pretend nothing is happening.

[brassplate]

meanwhile, disgruntled unionists are flexing their muscles because of the pilfering thieves that is most of gf upper management.
al bana and antoine and the rest who are there to make a buck at the expense of others...i think your number is coming up....thank god.

Gulf Air staff plan three minute protest over pay - Transportation - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/571594-gulf-air-staff-plan-three-minute-protest-over-pay)

[brassplate]

oh the silence when some painful truths are told.
be silent, for when gf suffers more losses from mismanagement and deception, and you lose your jobs as a result, maybe then you will cry.

[samjetblaster]

What is the outcome of the strike?????Will it change anything?Does the higher management care?:rolleyes:

[Skybeds]

There isn't much to say brass plate. Hate to admit it but GFs upper management is much better then QRs. Even though Qr has 66 aircraft is service and 158 on order , the management is filled with blood sucking parasites .

[40&80]

Blood sucking parasites?...formerly employed by Gulf Air??

[Skybeds]

Blood sucking parasites?...formerly employed by Gulf Air??yes most of them went to either QR or EY.

[40&80]

Thought so...Racing cert....then.....same management style = same results?

[behramjee]

Hello,

Some new GF Summer 2010 updates which are as follows:

BOM - reduced from double daily to 8 weekly. The flight that has been cut is GF 56/57.

DEL - reduced from double daily to 8 weekly. The flight that has been cut is GF 134/135.

DAC - reduced from 12 weekly to 10 weekly.

All these changes are shown on all major GDS systems.

[boiler]

Talking to some of the people I know in schedule publication, this is a system error and they are not reduced. The issue should be fixed soon.

[Skybeds]

Im impressed!

[Radar Contact]

Looks like Majali is stepping up the challenge :ok:

A9C-AC (3rd A320) has arrived in Bahrain after paint from Norwich, kudos GF :)

[surfer of desert]

Bahrain-based Gulf Aviation Academy has taken delivery of the first of three flight simulators purchased under a $34m investment plan. The new simulator will allow pilots to train on the A320 aircraft type. The second and third simulators are due to arrive in January and March 2010, the academy said.

They will used this simulator only for 2nd officer or they will use for upgrade as well??

[Sal-e]

Way to go, Majali.:ok:

[boiler]

Not sure what Majali has to do with designing the new network. When you are that high up, you do not deal with scheduling the aircraft and determining where each one goes. Credit I assume has to be given to the people in the network planning department.

[Panama Jack]

With respect to Mike.Park's post about discussions between Gulf Air and planemakers Airbus and Boeing, I cannot help but wonder if there are also discussions going on with Bombardier and Embraer.

[Desert Diner]

I doubt that little jets would solve any of the GF problems.

[Skybeds]

With respect to Mike.Park's post about discussions between Gulf Air and plane makers Airbus and Boeing, I cannot help but wonder if there are also discussions going on with Bombardier and Embraer. i don't really would want GF flying these types of aircraft. Thos airplanes are needed in domestic flights.And GF have those 320s .So i guess thats enough,As GFs main routes are within the gulf so they need airplanes bigger than Embraer.

[Panama Jack]

I am not giving an opinion . . . I am just wondering. ;)

[behramjee]

Talking to some of the people I know in schedule publication, this is a system error and they are not reduced. The issue should be fixed soon.

Yes you are correct as now the GDS system is updated with both BOM and DEL showing up as double daily for SU 10.

However, DAC still shows reduced from 12 to 10 weekly.

I wonder why they canceled GF 003 as that flight is the main connecting flight for LON and North America pax starting their journey from the Indian subcontinent region as the connection in BAH is only 1 hour 15 minutes.

I think that it would be wiser canceling GF 5 and GF 6 rather than GF 3 and 6. GF 006 definitely needs to be terminated but not GF003! Any thoughts?

[boiler]

However, DAC still shows reduced from 12 to 10 weekly.
very possible as this could be the result of retiring their old A343 fleet (5 planes mind you). So, they will have to reduce some long haul flying as they are not getting any new widebodies for some time (2012 I am guessing).


I think that it would be wiser canceling GF 5 and GF 6 rather than GF 3 and 6. GF 006 definitely needs to be terminated but not GF003! Any thoughts?

I agree with you. My sources tell me that they are still debating this. It seems there were under pressure to cancel one very quickly to reduce losses. I am guessing that the decision will be reversed and the GF3/6 will be reinstated while the GF5/8 will be suspended. Mind you I am sure these are very valuable slots. If GF cannot lease them out for 2 years or so, I guess they will have to bring back the third flight so they do not lose their historical slots forever esp. that the third LHR runway is no more.

[boiler]

The main downside for GF 3 is that if this flight on the return became GF8

My understanding is that the GF3 returns as the GF6 and not GF8. The slot is GF3 & GF6, GF5 and GF8. They cannot be in interchanged.

[behramjee]

yes i know...that is why I wrote "if" ;)

[Skybeds]

hopefully GF will take a 180 degree turn in 2010 ...

[Radar Contact]

I heard GF has got a good deal on the 777's again. they will be back :ok:

[Skybeds]

I heard GF has got a good deal on the 777's again. they will be back
thanks for the news.. so that means that the 340s will be leaving soon

[Radar Contact]

I heard GF has got a good deal on the 777's again. they will be back thanks for the news.. so that means that the 340s will be leaving soon

EDIT; Looks like not, LE/LF are back in service

[boiler]

No such thing according to my contacts. The B777 have all been returned to 9W and they will not be making a comeback.

[Panama Jack]

The B777 have all been returned to 9W and they will not be making a comeback.

I wonder if that is a prophetic statement about 9W also. :confused:

[Landflap]

Poor yourself another drink, continue wondering about having an opinion........."and sleep"

[RJ900NG]

Do you think they will start hiring again any time soon

[Skybeds]

farewell 777

[Ion-athan]

WOW guys.... we should give each and everyone a position in the company other than that of a pilot....

Where were you guys hidding all this time..... I think the company should review your comments and get back to you with their offer for CEO HOFO VPO commercial manager and I don't know what else is available.

You guys make it so easy maybe I should join and do the same. It sounds like fun.

[boiler]

Another UR???

[Ion-athan]

That's all you have to say?

Have you noticed my friend that the ME blog is the only blog that has more than 90 viewers everytime you log into PPRUNE? (asia one coming second). Have you wondered why?

Do you guys have a problem? We have a commity that is representing us. Did you ever bother sending an e-mail to them? Did you know that our LV slots will change again without our opinion like they did in the first place? Did you know that 330-340 rqsts never granted? Maybe we should fix these things first that improve our lifes. Then you will not be spending so much time in PPRUNE.

Why don't we all demand for our GF pilots webpage to be up and running were voting could take place in things that are affecting us.

And you guys are here arguing about GF3 and GF9 and if we stop it what will be the consequense etc.

WHO CARES let them do their job because no matter what you say here will never reach their ears. Start worring on how to make our lifes better.

I am no UR or what you call this person. I am just a guy working under the same roof as you.

Cheers

[Albergineman]

But not are my requests for long time now.

As far as I can see, the new LV slots are providing an additional chance to have your leave request as close as possible to your needs, specially those who are at the end of the LV seniority list, a.k.a. C group.

What is going to be unacceptable is separate our 52 leave days in four slots as shown as the new slots. Be aware that some slot combination are not possible.

Our contract states that our 52 leave days can be divided in two of 26 in cases of shortage and or company requirements.

If the management reads this forum or not, nobody can assure, but for sure all the few good information we find here reach the management in some way, can be via e-mail or personally.

:ok:

[Radar Contact]

A9CAD head to the paint job, will be here very soon! :)

[brassplate]

the new font SUX

[Skybeds]

In the Bahrain airshow GF has some surprises for the public .

[behramjee]

Ok good news...GF is back to triple daily for BAH LHR BAH for the IATA Summer 2010 season as GF 3 and GF 6 have been reinstated in GDS.

[DesertHawk]

Ion-athan- I agree with your general idea but there is not reason to change if they dont have to. in general our Fleet guy is satisfied with ongoings at GF and from what he says even the rostering. nothing will change until the senior guys force it which does not seem likely.

[boiler]

Ok good news...GF is back to triple daily for BAH LHR BAH for the IATA Summer 2010 season as GF 3 and GF 6 have been reinstated in GDS.

Nope. The GF5/8 will be canceled as I have previously posted. It will be back to double daily.

[Panama Jack]

Sooo. . . . any info on what is going on with Gulf Air Trade Union?

On Tuesday they said they would be on strike today (Thursday):

Gulf Daily News » Local News » Airline employees threaten to strike (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/ArchiveNewsDetails.aspx?date=11/03/2009&storyid=263216)

Then on Wednesday they said they were actually organizing a sit-in (what exactly is a "sit in"?) during their Lunch hour break and denied that they were organizing a strike:

Gulf Daily News » Local News » Gulf Air union plans HQ sit-in (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/ArchiveNewsDetails.aspx?date=11/04/2009&storyid=263258)

I understand that less than 1500 of GF's 5000 employees are members of GATU. I am wondering in what area of staffing the membership is significant and what effect a full-fledged strike by GATU would have on the airline?

[Mephistopheles]

Great now anything wrong with the paperwork or if its not put in the correct box will be met by a nice call from the office asking for an explaination. As usual the managers(term used very loosely indeed) cannot deal with the problem of FOs not completing the paperwork correctly head on & have to put it on all of us. Why can't they just call the responsible parties or better yet train the few useless FOs upto standard. I guess from now on I have to keep looking over the FOs shoulder inflight whilst he completes the paperwork & then escort him/her to the relevant box & make sure the envelope is delievered. I wish that that was the only problem but none of the managers want to confront our biggest problem, which yet again is the fast decline in the maintenance status of the aircraft.

[brassplate]

as always, they divert all the attention to the little people in the company to cover the REAL problems with the airline, them.
especially the marketing and the commercial departments who are almost always impossible to nail down as the single biggest cause of ALL THE WOES OF THE AIRLINE.

[Ion-athan]

Did you read the GDN few days ago?
The company last year had 660 cancelations and 11000 flights were delayed. WOW!!!!!!

Did you know that we are paying SIA 9000000 $ every year for only A checks? The rest is additional. So far we have paid an additional 1000000$

That sounds like a recovery plan to me :ugh:

But on the other hand what can we do. We are just some poor CPT & F/Os.

[boiler]

The company last year had 660 cancellations and 11000 flights were delayed.

The statistic means nothing unless you know what was the total number of number of flights GF did. If we assume GF did 100 flights per day (and probably more in peak summer), then this means a total of 30% of all flights were delayed. A bit on the high side, but not uncommon. I am not sure if it is even possible with a fleet as old as the one GF has do any better.

[sheryas777]

Why not go on strike,when the support is indirectly offered,not only from some outsiders and those trying to fuel the fire,but from two top senior management,who represent two major and largest political parties.Gulf air is has been going towards week management,because its going to a wrong direction,and the slogan used is Whom do you know,not what do you know. To be promoted and liked you need to be an active member of one of those two parties,otherwise........:ugh::ugh:

[Skybeds]

Did you know that we are paying SIA 9000000 $ every year for only A checks? The rest is additional. So far we have paid an additional 1000000$

That sounds like a recovery plan to me :ugh:
GF should get top of the line maintenance company even if it is check A.Because the airline takes pride in their well maintained fleet (even though the aircraft are not really well maintained)

[Radar Contact]

A9C-AD will be supporting a Bahrain Airshow livery, looking sexy! :ok:

Will be shown on Thursday, expect some pictures

[Da Do Ron Ron]

I am a little mystified as to the reason for the air show bearing in mind that the Dubai Air Show is not that long before.

Talking to a few contractors working on the site it is a huge amount of Do Dahs being spent on the show including a new runway at the Sakir Air Base.

Anyone shed any light on this ???

[Panama Jack]

A few years ago, everybody wanted their own airline, ski-hills, water parks, fantasy luxury islands (mission accomplished) so now everyone wants their own airshow. Expect the Doha Airshow, Muscat Airshow and Kuwait Airshow to debut within the next few years.

[Skybeds]

A9C-AD will be supporting a Bahrain Airshow livery, looking sexy! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Will be shown on Thursday, expect some pictures
Cant wait how do you know that the livery will be introduced on Thursday?

[Radar Contact]

Sources in Norwich where the aircraft is being painted - It looks sexier than KB! :)

[Skybeds]

thats nice . cant wait

[Skybeds]

what will GF show off in the airshow? their old 340s?

[Mike.Park]

Expats will be the first to go

EXPATS will be the first to go under a new three-year turnaround strategy drawn up by Gulf Air management, it was claimed yesterday. Details of the rescue plan were revealed for the first time to members of parliament's financial and economic affairs committee on Monday.

Committee chairman MP Abduljalil Khalil told the GDN he could not go into detail about the package, but told the GDN yesterday that workforce cuts could start within a few months.

"It will happen in the upcoming months, when the strategy is implemented," he said.
"Considering that Gulf Air has a 60pc expatriate workforce and 40pc Bahrainis, expatriates will be the first to be removed.

"They will then be followed by Bahrainis who are near retirement. They will be presented with good packages to encourage them to leave the company."

The new measures have been drawn up following the arrival of new Gulf Air chief executive officer Samer Majali, who officially started work on August 1.

The new boss has kept a low profile since taking up his post and has yet to agree to an interview with the GDN.

However, Mr Khalil said he had been impressed with Gulf Air's new action plan - saying it was the first time MPs had been given a "real plan" designed to steer the airline back into profit.

"We resumed our talks with Gulf Air on Monday and were for the first time presented with a real plan that includes a strategy and numbers, rather than general ideas," said Mr Khalil.

"But, I have agreed not to reveal details of the plan as competitors could start pinching ideas from it before Gulf Air implement it."

However, he confirmed that some of the airline's loss-making routes were expected to be scrapped - claiming they cost millions to operate and brought just thousands into the company.

However, he stressed that although the plan looked good on paper, MPs had not been told where money would come from to fund the rescue strategy.

"It is ambitious, but where will the money come from?" he asked.
Mr Majali, former head of Royal Jordanian and the son of former Jordanian prime minister Abdelsalam Majali, took over the reigns of the airline from former president and chief executive Bjšrn NŠf.

Mr NŠf predicted last November that the airline would make profit by 2010, but Mr Khalil said figures presented to parliament suggested it was expected to post $500 million loss (BD189m) for this year alone - the equivalent of $1.36m (BD518,000) a day.

During Mr NŠf's reign, MPs launched a corruption probe into the airline, which announced in 2007 that it was shrinking its network and cutting jobs in a bid to reduce losses.

However, that probe was postponed on June 1 to avoid shaking confidence in the carrier during the peak summer months.

The GDN reported in August that Gulf Air had threatened employees who shirked their responsibilities or were counterproductive to the airline's goals with action.

At the time, Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company chief executive officer and airline chairman Talal Alzain claimed it had no plans for mass layoffs, but warned that it would not be afraid to ditch the dead wood.

He added the airline was committed to protecting the jobs of Bahrainis and said supporting local talent was the only way the company could improve.

But the Gulf Air Trade Union claimed at the time to have information that up to 1,500 workers were facing the axe.

A Gulf Air spokesman yesterday said details of the turnaround plan would be released at a later date, but declined to comment further.

Source: GDN (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=263735)

[Panama Jack]

Oh well, Al Humdoolilah for the Diplomatic Clause in my rental contract. Time to start dusting off the C.V. again.

[Trader]

I don't think you have much to worry about Panama--they actually NEED you! How many times has this been threatened!???!!!!!

The only expats are the pilots (which they need) and the grunt labour....which they need! SO who are they going to lay off? Perhaps a few expat managers.

They might start with about 75% of the Bahraini women in the office who tend to be useless.

[Albergineman]

Well... let's go for another three years turnaround. We keep turning around and around and going nowhere!

:{

Oh yeah, another "expats go first", but as said before, pilots and cabin crew have nothing to worry about.

God bless us all!

[boiler]

pilots and cabin crew have nothing to worry about

I beg to differ. If half of the rumors I hear are true, they are the ones who really have to be worried.

[Radar Contact]

NEW DELHI, Nov. 11 (Xinhua) -- A Gulf Air plane, carrying 222 passengers, Wednesday made an emergency landing at Mumbai after it developed a technical snag soon after taking off, a senior Indian Aviation official said.
"The Bahrain-bound Gulf Air flight GF 057 left Mumbai at 10:32 a.m. local time and returned to Mumbai International Airport at 11:24 a.m. due to technical difficulties. The flight landed safely and all the passengers are safe," the official said.
As soon as it landed, it was towed away to the parking bay where a thorough check-up was organized, he said.

Gulf Air plane makes emergency landing at Mumbai airport_English_Xinhua (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-11/11/content_12434723.htm)


Which reg?

[brassplate]

duh....:ugh: that has always been gfs intentions, to localise all the jobs. why does this sound new to everyone? they wanted this decades ago. if i was boss and had enough qualified locals for the jobs, why bring in expats? sounds simple enough, right? wrong!! if they were to localise all the pilots positions, insurance premiums will hit the roof and there is nothing gf can do about it. in fact, gf already pays the highest premiums in the region, due in part to gf072 plus, interestingly, the higher than average 'local' content of their flight decks.
simply put, the insurers use their own measuring stick in assessing the clients risk. seeing some of the civil unrest in bahrain between sunni and shiite, can you blame the insurance companies? and we have drivers from both camps! and yes, there is a notable divide, regardless of what they say.
do you ever wonder why, even though they probably have enough locals to drive their ships, that they continue to hire expat pilots? in a word, proportion. if the local/expat ratio reaches a certain point, up goes the premiums. in this single instance, gf cannot afford bahrainisation. unless of course it becomes highly successful, which at their current rate of loss (US1.35 big Ms/day), it ain't gonna happen any time soon.
in other words, it may well be that the expat pilots are saving their bottom. funny how they make it sound the contrary.

[Albergineman]

Which reg?

ET


:eek:

[Radar Contact]

ECHO TECH can carry 222 passengers? It says a MAX of 170

[Albergineman]

[ ECHO TECH can carry 222 passengers? It says a MAX of 170 ]

It is certified for 222 but configured accordingly.

EEEEEE... TEEEEE... phone... home...

:}

[Skybeds]

The turnaround program wont do any good. Bahrain has to pump money into this airline like it has never before. I heard that cabin crew and pilots have nothing to worry about as man power in that specific area is considerably low . What an exciting news before the airshow:rolleyes:

[Ion-athan]

Ok lets assume that all expat pilots go.... :eek: Who is going to stay and work in the cabin? The lazy bahraini boys or the spoiled bahrain girls?
I realy want to see the bahraini girls serving the Bengali pax. Ouaxaxaxaxaxaxa:}

[Skybeds]

Ok lets assume that all expat pilots go.... http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif Who is going to stay and work in the cabin? The lazy bahraini boys or the spoiled bahrain girls?
I realy want to see the bahraini girls serving the Bengali pax. Ouaxaxaxaxaxaxahttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif
that makes it the two of us :ok:

[hunter320]

every one makes mistakes and learn from them, but to do the same mistake twice in 2 years!!!!!!!! thats just stupid.
we all remember when Mr. DOSE made the announcement of cutting jobs.... the company ended up with a mad number of resignations from highly qualified and badly needed people, which almost brought the whole operation to a stand still and GFA took further more losses.
lets face it if you say I'm cutting jobs, the first to leave you are the ones you need, simply cuz they are well capable and needed els where and need job security.
simply ending up with the people your trying to get rid of. the way the company or PM's (who ever leaked this so called plan) didn't really think it through. there are much better ways of passing information than just say getting rid of expats, they need to be more professional and specify which caliber of people they plan on letting go, other wise i can see another exodus happening very soon putting GFA in deeper trouble.

[Panama Jack]

Well put hunter320. This seems to be the case with human resources in most industries during downturns-- namely, the first to walk are the ones you don't want to have leave (the most capable who know they can find new challenges elsewhere). The ones who hold on like coral to a rock are the ones who know they would be dead meat out on the job market.

In any case, I wonder whether announcing that they are getting rid of the expats is low-hanging political fruit? In any case, I feel it is appropriate for any employee to remember that no matter what they do, some day this job will end. The questions remaining is how soon that will come and how they spend their time during that period.

[GAGing in Bahrain]

Not to get off target but what happened with the AA/GF codeshare??? Is AA dropping GF? The AA website states:

Due to a regulatory change by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, American Airlines has suspended its codeshare on flights operated by Gulf Air until further notice.

This regulatory change does not affect Gulf Air's codeshare on flights operated by American Airlines, which continues uninterrupted.

Funny thing is AA just announced:

American codeshares on Etihad Airways non-stop flights between the United States and Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates (UAE) and, select services between Europe and Abu Dhabi, UAE.

[boiler]

For once, nothing to do with GF as I understand it. This is an FAA issue if I am not mistaken. They have to audit the BCAA. Until that happens, the codeshare is suspended.

[Che Guevara]

They have to audit the BCAA.

This could be interesting.
I wonder if they will have look at us as well...:eek:

American codeshares on Etihad Airways non-stop flights between the United States and Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates (UAE) and, select services between Europe and Abu Dhabi, UAE.

No surprise here is there, after all wasn't it Jimmy 'smoke and mirrors' who negotiated the tie up with GA originally.

[samjetblaster]

By the way,how is GF Roster for Pilots? Do they have bidding system? Is it distributed fairly?

[Desert Diner]

For once, nothing to do with GF as I understand it. This is an FAA issue if I am not mistaken. They have to audit the BCAA. Until that happens, the codeshare is suspended.

From what I've heard, this was the reason keeping the LHR and FRA loads high.

[Skybeds]

the restructure plan is back where it started from :(

[Mahmood Alsitri]

Hi

The crew of a Gulf Air Airbus A320-200, registration A9C-AD performing flight GF-510 from Bahrain (Bahrain) to Dubai (United Arab Emirates), reported a hydraulics failure while on approach to Dubai. The airplane landed safely on Dubai's runway 12L and was able to vacate the runway.


The aircraft age is less then one week !!!!!

Where is the problem ? is it from Airbus or from Gulf air

[Radar Contact]

Hi Mahmood,

I think Avherlad got it wrong - as far as I know, AD is tucked away in stand 63 :}

[Skybeds]

Hi

The crew of a Gulf Air Airbus A320-200, registration A9C-AD performing flight GF-510 from Bahrain (Bahrain) to Dubai (United Arab Emirates), reported a hydraulics failure while on approach to Dubai. The airplane landed safely on Dubai's runway 12L and was able to vacate the runway.


The aircraft age is less then one week !!!!!

Where is the problem ? is it from Airbus or from Gulf air
wooooooooooooow . where did you get the news from?

[MAHABATEN]

Is A9C-ED, is been grounded in DXB after engine 1 pneumatic leak.

[Mahmood Alsitri]

Incident: Gulf Air A320 near Dubai on Nov 12th 2009, hydraulics failure (http://avherald.com/h?article=422a2154&opt=4096)

[ironbutt57]

And the point is???:confused:

[Skybeds]

2 emergency landing in 1 weeks.Thats a new record for gulf air

[T O G A Boy]

emergency landings or technical problems can happen to any airline and at anytime...

[40&80]

If management previously sort to destroy the engineering department.

[ironbutt57]

Skybeds..a single hyd system failure does not necessitate an "emergency" landing...

[DesertHawk]

i think the point is amount of "emergencies". i think it is obvious we have older fleet than all other ME airlines therefore more problems.

[Skybeds]

Skybeds..a single hyd system failure does not necessitate an "emergency" landing...
i know but GDN made it seem that way.

[GF-A330]

Can't have been A9C-AD as it was in Norwich last night painted in Bahrain flag livery!

Gulf Air New A320 Bahraini Livery — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4608223/)

The hydraulic failure aircraft was A9C-ED.

[left_to_first_class]

what have they done to the font they used for the name? It's terrible :{.
Need a day time pic as Gold and Red doesn't really go that well...unless its a crimson kind then it will look good.
Shame they had to touch the livery when to many other things should be fixed.

[Panama Jack]

The new "chicken" on the tail looks ugly and cartoonish too. But what the heck-- everybody said changes were needed at Gulf Air!

[Skybeds]

not bad.because the livery shows that the airline actually belongs to Bahrain.
And why is the code share between GF and AA is suspended?

[Mike.Park]

not bad.because the livery shows that the airline actually belongs to Bahrain

Like that matters to prospective pax? :yuk:

[brassplate]

the new font SUX

quoted by me a couple of weeks ago. did you notice anything familiar with the font of 'sux'?

[SubsonicMortal]

Yes, it looks exactly like the new font on the new deliveries.

So what's your point?

[GF-A330]

http://images3.jetphotos.net/img/1/6/6/1/87789_1258304166.jpg

[Skybeds]

the front part of the plane should be a little brighter. because the color it looks like rust

[Dessert Aviator]

quite bloody dreadful !!! if those are the true colours, what a clash none of it blends in ...... they must be colour blind as well as totally disfunctional in the pink palace.:yuk::yuk::yuk:

[BDD]

They took one of the best paint jobs in the industry and screwed it up. I would think Gulf Air had more pressing concerns then messing up a great livery.Good luck to all you guys over there.

BDD

[Flygulfair]

What the hell is that thing?

GF you need to look at other issues! Get the cabin sorted lol

[Che Guevara]

What the hell is that thing?


Could it be a 6 year old's interpretation of the 'flight of the phoenix' by any chance?

[samjetblaster]

YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!:ok:

[brassplate]

great!! just the thing to boost the public's confidence. a plane that looks like it's on fire!!!:D

[SubsonicMortal]

That was exactly what I first thought but thought it might be a bit too sensitive to talk mention. lol

[EY346Driver]

Sorry boys I wouldnt want to be found dead in that thing.

[daidalos]

EY346Driver
*********************************************
quote
Sorry boys I wouldnt want to be found dead in that thing.
end Quote
*********************************************

And you would like to be found dead in what sort of thing ?

[hunter320]

what a mess.......................

very hard to comment on this..................

and this bird is doining most of the DXB runs during the Air Show.........

[left_to_first_class]

Thanks for posting the daylight version....what a mess indeed...looked better at night....shouldn't the gold of the falcon be the same as the nose....why is the arabic font smaller than the english font....and I could carry on but its just terrible! :{:{

GF has (or did have) one of the best livery's in the sky... spend the money on better things or does someone have a vested interest in getting the fleet painted :E.

[Skybeds]

thank god that this "livery" is only for the airshow!

[777AV8R]

Looks like the Falcon got impaled by another 'bus' and the blood ran backwards. Nice!

[Che Guevara]

thank god that this "livery" is only for the airshow!

Indeed, and many more airshows to come no doubt, particulary since the 'powers that be' obviously think it's great.

Can't wait to see the new uniforms....red and white I hear.

[Skybeds]

Indeed, and many more airshows to come no doubt, particularly since the 'powers that be' obviously think it's great.

Can't wait to see the new uniforms....red and white I hear. i heard that the uniforms will be revealed in mid 2010. red and white? that sounds interesting (sarcastically speaking). The cabin and the in flight entertainment system is getting really old.

[Bidalot]

I like it :ok:

[simsrus]

The Pic says A330?... AD is an A320...but in addition to that..its Ugly... however since it looks like a Hot Rod making it look like its, as someone already said., Maybe they can save fuel cause it looks faster!!! Blah... The Livery as it is for the past few years is much nicer!!!

[boiler]

The Pic says A330

GF-A330 is the name of the user who posted the picture.

[Skybeds]

the new gulf air website sucks! check it out : Flights from Bahrain to London, Dubai and Bangkok, Hotels and Car Rentals |English|Gulf Air (http://www.gulfair.com)

[Che Guevara]

Out of interest, do you like lime green Porsches by chance?
or orange Mercs perhaps?

[SubsonicMortal]

I agree Olbie...

It's painful indeed and beyond frustrating to see things like that happen so often here.

[Albergineman]

How can we find the ones that have the livery idea and who approved it?

That could be funny...

:{

[Panama Jack]

"Fiasco" is an excellently chosen word to describe it, olbie

Since the HCR&P came out and indicated that "Your chances of getting your 26-day slot will not be affected by having 4 slots instead of 2 (as in previous years)," it is evidently a case of a few vocal minority ruining it for the rest of us who like to have different options. :ugh:

[Ion-athan]

Once again it has proven that the company is runned by the few..... I am disgusted :yuk:

If it was such a big problem they should have let them have their own seniority list and their own 26 days slot and let the rest of us in peace. Afterall there are only about 15 to 20 F****** dinosaurs that they are messing with our lifes.

I wonder if they let us form this FTOC just to keep us quite. Because it seems that these F****** Dinos are more powerfull then the commity.
They probably shook the strings of the DFO puppet strong enough because he got out of control for a minute. Now I can see them laughing their arses out watching us from above.

Maybe they told the DFO puppet your chair is in doubt, so the poor man bow his head and said YES MASTER!!!

The worst think is that we again will accepted and do nothing. Like everything else.

[Trader]

Maybe I missed it---but doesn't the option of having 2 slots or 4 slots just increase the options for everyone?

[Panama Jack]

Well, there is also the option of getting 3 slots.

In any case, I don't worry about how. If he makes guarantees in writing, I don't worry about how he makes it happen so much as that it actually happens.

As for me, I was open minded about it all and looking forward to see how it will work out to everyone's benefit.

On an entirely separate topic, in a country where a replacement CPR card costs 500 fils, what makes a replacement CMC card worth 50 Dinars? :ooh: Perhaps I should keep mine at home in the safe.

[LOC STAR]

As per inside source VPO "C.C" to leave GF at the end of this month. Thank CC you for doing nothig for the last 2 years.:D

[Mephistopheles]

Amazing some are talking about paint jobs,others about leave slots but none-the-less all useless topics especially when you will see what is about to happen to the incredible shrinking Gulf Air.

[SubsonicMortal]

What are you talking about?

[boiler]

I heard the same but unable to verify any of the details.

[SubsonicMortal]

Don't be shy, this IS a rumour network. Let it roll. What's "about to happen"?

[boiler]

Heard the first to go is China. Then by end of next year, many wide-bodies will be out and GF will cancel all its AB and B orders.

[Skybeds]

all the airlines in the regions are growing. but here GF is shrinking.i bet majali isnt different than all the other CEOs that GF had in the past few years. hes going to suck up to themanagement.Get a pay rise. fire peaple and spend the profit in the most useless stuff ( or maybe him self)

[Krinkle]

Er...

To an unschooled outsider like me, it looks like the airline is doing what it needs to do.

Remember, this company is losing $500 million a year and has been for some time. This in the 'least rich' GCC country - Bahrain only has a GDP of around $20 billion. The equivalent of one dollar in every 40 of that is ploughed into a failing airline. Money that could be going into schools or hospitals.

The government has made clear that Gulf Air is really in the last chance saloon this time, and is keen to get shot of it soon. That means turning a profit as quickly as possible. That means hacking back these routes that may contribute to Gulf Air's delusions of being a major international carrier but are bleeding red ink.

Profit is the name of the game, even if that means a fleet of two turboprops serving a few one horse towns in the Gulf. Bahrain has no divine right to a national carrier. Forget competing with Emirates etc, those days are gone, Gulf Air overtaken a decade ago while it was sleeping.

A pared down carrier, serving some less glamourous locations in Iraq, Iran etc makes better business sense. Then by all means once the books are balanced start adding glamour routes to Asia.

But what the hell is the value to the people of Bahrain of allowing this airline to spend tens of millions of dollars of their money flying three-quarter empty aircraft to far-off locales when there are far more pressing needs at home.

Majali comes with a good rep, and did a good job at Royal Jordanian. Ultimately he will succeed or fail on whether there is the political will to ride out all the gnashing of teeth that is sure to accompany the cuts to unproductive nationals that would be part of any credible turnaround plan.

Like I say, I don't know my arse from my elbow. But to express surprise that a company throwing away half a billion dollars a year is looking to make cut backs seems unreal.

[Albergineman]

GULF Air was yesterday praised as the pillar of Bahrain's economy. Shura Council Ali Saleh Al Saleh chairman hailed measures taken by the airline to improve performance and avert losses.
He was speaking as he chaired the council's financial and economic affairs committee meeting in the presence of Mumtalakat chief executiv officer Talal Alzain and Gulf Air chief executive officer Samer Al Majali.
While pointing out that it is time for change in the airline's administrative policies, Mr Al Saleh praised its rescue plan aimed at returning Gulf Air to profitability within three years.
Mr Al Saleh underpinned the importance of retaining Bahraini staff and expressed confidence in the airline's board in achieving positive results.
The committee will meet Mumtalakat and Gulf Air officials next week to discuss the situation at the airlline and discuss the blueprint to turn it around, committee head Khalid Al Maskati said.
The GDN earlier reported that details of the rescue plan were revealed for the first time to members of parliament's financial and economic affairs committee last week . Committee chairman MP Abduljalil Khalil had revealed that workforce cuts could start within a few months.
"It will happen in the upcoming months, when the strategy is implemented," he said.
However, Mr Khalil had said he had been impressed with Gulf Air's new action plan - saying it was the first time MPs had been given a "real plan" designed to steer the airline back into profit.

:D

[Skybeds]

Er...

To an unschooled outsider like me, it looks like the airline is doing what it needs to do.

Remember, this company is losing $500 million a year and has been for some time. This in the 'least rich' GCC country - Bahrain only has a GDP of around $20 billion. The equivalent of one dollar in every 40 of that is ploughed into a failing airline. Money that could be going into schools or hospitals.

The government has made clear that Gulf Air is really in the last chance saloon this time, and is keen to get shot of it soon. That means turning a profit as quickly as possible. That means hacking back these routes that may contribute to Gulf Air's delusions of being a major international carrier but are bleeding red ink.

Profit is the name of the game, even if that means a fleet of two turboprops serving a few one horse towns in the Gulf. Bahrain has no divine right to a national carrier. Forget competing with Emirates etc, those days are gone, Gulf Air overtaken a decade ago while it was sleeping.

A pared down carrier, serving some less glamourous locations in Iraq, Iran etc makes better business sense. Then by all means once the books are balanced start adding glamour routes to Asia.

But what the hell is the value to the people of Bahrain of allowing this airline to spend tens of millions of dollars of their money flying three-quarter empty aircraft to far-off locales when there are far more pressing needs at home.

Majali comes with a good rep, and did a good job at Royal Jordanian. Ultimately he will succeed or fail on whether there is the political will to ride out all the gnashing of teeth that is sure to accompany the cuts to unproductive nationals that would be part of any credible turnaround plan.

Like I say, I don't know my arse from my elbow. But to express surprise that a company throwing away half a billion dollars a year is looking to make cut backs seems unreal.
every body has been waiting for the big turnaround plan for 4 miserable years !!!!
after those years GF announces that the airline is in a worst position than it used to be!!! with those promises broken, how would we know that this "rescue plan" would not turn out like the last one? Do you think QR is making any profit?? no its not !!!and the airline is still growing!!! I have heard that bahrain is just pumping money into this airline ... i bet most of the money was just used up by the management ...And the only ones who are paying the real price are the employees!!!! Peaple said Andre dose had a good reputation.. so did BN.. and not for get james hogan who made it seem that every think was ok .But , it obviously wasnt! the good old days isnt that far away.. Gf could atleast be one of the "big three (Qatar airways,etihad,emirates)" if the airline is willing to.

[Not Gulfair CEO]

take a break ugly raed, you have started talking none sense again.

[slowjet]

And who got the cash under the table for the paint job ?


Nevermind, painted my Ford Anglia the same colour in the 60's and it went much faster.

[MikeAlpha7]

AHHH.......Good old Gulf Air , still making the headlines again.

" GULF Air was yesterday praised as the pillar of Bahrain's economy. Shura Council Ali Saleh Al Saleh chairman!!!" LOL .

Seriously now , with people like this guy running the affairs of the country , what do you expect ? Pillar of Bahrain economy , he says :\

Capt . C. C Has been told to leave , officially his contract is not renewed and he is being replaced by Capt. N. S. Not that it makes any difference , of course.

The Political pressure on GF by the Bahraini version of Taleban has paid off as one of their candidates will be appointed as a Head in Flight Operations.Insiders say that the actual losses for one of the last few months (either August or September) was a record . More than 1 million US$ per day for that month. There are drastic measures going on to adjust the figures at the moment. Yet , the highly paid elite management are finger pointing at each other publicly or behind closed doors. While high expenditure on trivial stuff or publicity stunts continue unabated , unpaid fuel bills to by BAFCO and money owed to BAS is on the brink of reaching the critical scenario thanks to Mumtalakat.

This is just a snapshot.......

Thumbs up , Krinkle.............................you hit the bulls eyes

[IFE]

Some received an email invitation to the following meeting, some did not.

"invite you to a presentation on Monday 23 November at the Movenpick Hotel"
"in English: 10:00am – 10:45am"

Rumour has it that this is going to be a very steep downhill ride. :rolleyes:

[DesertHawk]

rumor has it moving to short haul airline and downsizing. GF and the government now has allowed someone to come in open up 5 unprofitable routes and now he will completely obliterate the airline. BRAVO!!!! and now they will cry wolf about how bad it is when they have no idea what a airline should actually be runlike........ looks like masalama is in the future for many of us, sad with so much potential thrown in the wind!

[Mike.Park]

Safety pledge as airline denies midair near-miss

GULF Air yesterday insisted that no passengers were in danger after one of its aircraft came within 800 vertical feet of another plane during a flight to Mumbai.

GF064, with 180 people on board, was travelling towards the Indian city when the pilot was warned by an on board Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) about the proximity of an "intruding" Saudi Airlines plane.

It happened around 100 nautical miles west of Mumbai on Thursday and meant the distance between the aircraft was 200ft less than the specified industry guidelines.

"The Saudi aircraft had climbed 200 feet without permission from the Air Traffic Control (ATC)," said an airport official quoted on the Indian Express newspaper website.

"The pilot of the Gulf Air aircraft had spotted another aircraft climbing into its airspace on his warning system."

The Saudi Airlines flight, with 377 passengers on board, was flying over Mumbai to Riyadh from Dhaka.

However, ATC officials intervened and asked the pilot to maintain its altitude.

"Earlier we could not have spotted the aircraft exceeding its altitude as the radars were analogue, but now we have digital radars that can trace the exact height of the aircraft," the official said in the report.

A Gulf Air spokeswoman yesterday confirmed the incident, but played down safety fears.

"We can confirm that GF064 en route from Bahrain to Mumbai on Thursday, November 19 received an alert from the on board TCAS to climb to ensure it was within the regulation 1,000ft vertical separation minima from another aircraft," she said.

"This is standard procedure and at no point was either aircraft or its passengers in any danger."

Source: GDN (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=265033)

[Skybeds]

Gulf Air is seeking a government bailout to help finance a new strategy to pilot the airline out of the red.
Officials have knocked on the door of the Shura Council to back them in their new three-year turnaround strategy.
The council offered its backing to Gulf Air's management on Wednesday during a special meeting, pledging that councillors would do whatever possible to ensure that the new strategy was implemented as soon as possible.
Figures presented to parliament last week suggested the airline was expected to post $500 million loss (BD189 million) this year - the equivalent of $1.36 million (BD518,000) a day.
'We will have a meeting with Gulf Air management and Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company, under which it comes, to get an insight into the company's critical financial position,' said council financial and economic affairs committee chairman Khalid Al Maskati.
'There is a plan to fix faults in the company and correct mistakes, but it needs financial backing.
'We would back Gulf Air to get it from the government,' he said.
'Finances are required to help the airline develop business and get out of the tunnel it is in at the moment.
'Everyone should take into consideration that the company's contribution to the GDP is around six per cent.
'Gulf Air employs a lot of Bahrainis and any harm to it in the future would jeopardise their jobs and that's something no one wants to see - us, the company's management or the government,' the councillor pointed out.
Al Maskati praised the recovery plan, saying he hoped it would be implemented soon.
'It basically involves rescheduling the travel routes, depending on small and medium aircraft for medium-business areas to cut costs and introducing new routes that are popular in the market.
'Significant innovative ideas have been carried out by Gulf Air such as introducing services to Najaf, for example.
'From figures presented I have seen how popular it is amongst Bahraini and other GCC travelers.'
The meeting between Gulf Air management and council members will take place this week.
The GDN reported last week that expatriates would be the first to go under the new plan, with workforce cuts starting within a few months.
Bahrainis nearing retirement will be offered good packages to encourage them to leave the company.
The new measures have been drawn up following the arrival of new chief executive officer Samer Majali, who officially began work on August 1.
Parliament financial and economic affairs committee head Abduljalil Khalil, who first unveiled the plans, said he had been impressed with Gulf Air's new action plan.
Khalil said it was the first time MPs had been given a 'real plan' designed to steer the airline back into profit.
The MP also confirmed that some of the airline's loss-making routes were expected to be scrapped, claiming they cost millions to operate and brought just thousands of dinars into the company.
However, Khalil stressed that although the plan looked good on paper, MPs had not been told where money would come from to fund the rescue strategy.
Majali, former head of Royal Jordanian and son of former Jordanian prime minister Abdelsalam Majali, took over the reins of Gulf Air from former president and chief executive Bjorn Naf.
The former chief executive predicted last November that the airline would make profit by 2010.
During his tenure, MPs launched a probe into corruption in the airline, which announced in 2007 that it was shrinking its network and cutting jobs in a bid to reduce losses.
However, the investigation was postponed on June 1 to avoid shaking confidence in the carrier during the peak summer months.
The airline warned last August that action would be taken against employees who shirked their responsibilities or were counterproductive to its goals.
At the time, Mumtalakat chief executive officer and airline chairman Talal Alzain claimed it had no plans for mass layoffs, but warned that it would not be afraid to ditch the deadwood.
Alzain also said that the airline was committed to protecting the jobs of Bahrainis and that supporting local talent was the only way the company could improve.
But the Gulf Air Trade Union claimed at the time to have information that up to 1,500 workers were facing the axe.

[Da Do Ron Ron]

Independent survey indicates significant public support for Gulf Air strategic review

Independent survey indicates significant public support for Gulf Air strategic review | Gulf Air | AMEinfo.com (http://www.ameinfo.com/216919.html)

Commenting on the survey, Samer Majali, Gulf Air's Chief Executive Officer, said: "I would like to thank everyone who took part in this survey and I very much look forward to sharing our new strategy with you. This survey has given us clear support for the strategic review. We appreciate that this is only a representative sample pool, but we believe it fairly reflects the hopes and aspirations of our customers, the people living and working here in Bahrain. Without them we don't have a business."

[boiler]

Looking at the reservation systems, PVG seems to be the first to be axed starting mid-Dec.

[ShirleyNot]

ANY NEWS ANY NEWS from the meeting today? (for us on the otherside of the world enjoying 'luxury nightstops'.)

[Che Guevara]

"Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
An’ if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know!"

This song from The Clash keep resonating in my head for some reason....
Anybody else having this problem?

[Bombay HF]

The smart ones got out when the last ''turnaround'' package was announced.

[Che Guevara]

The smart ones got out when the last ''turnaround'' package was announced.


So you are one of the smart one's I guess, congratulations.

The bottom line is where you are on the totem pole of the game and what you have achieved or still need to achieve, be it financial or otherwise. The game by the way is life, so please don't judge others by your own measure, we all have different ideas, needs and circumstances.
Good luck 'smart one'.

[Albergineman]

Exactly what Andre Dose wanted to do, no rocket science, but he wanted to cut the useless manpower.

The difference now is they will cut the foreign manpower, the useless (maybe a few) ones and the good ones.

Gulf Air to cut staff, may sell planes, Bahrain Aviation, Transportation - Maktoob Business (http://business.maktoob.com/20090000399790/Gulf_Air_to_cut_staff_may_sell_planes/Article.htm)

:(

[Krinkle]

15 routes to be cut - Shanghai, Hydrabad, Bangalore first to go.

More than 20 regional jets needed to serve 20 new destinations to be added to the network - from what I could see on the route map it was places like Aden, more Iranian destinations, and some in the former Soviet CIS states.

Narrow bodies to serve what few European destinations remain - he cited Lufthansa's business class to Bahrain on a narrow body as an example.

No "productive" staff will be sacked - but cuts look imminent.

[hunter320]

so whats the bottem line? more A/C or Less? or same number but smaller?
i wonder what will happen when wide body guys are asked to come down to narrow body.
any one know if the axing or retirement packages will include pilots?

[Mike.Park]

They're saying goodbye to long-haul and will focus on regional ops.

Majali has said they'll be getting rid of their 340s "and others"... I wonder what other aircraft will be decommissioned? 330s?

There's a good article in the Financial Times

FT.com / Companies / Middle East & North Africa - Gulf Air scraps routes in restructuring (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dd423862-d832-11de-8b04-00144feabdc0.html)

[brassplate]

Exactly what Andre Dose wanted to do, no rocket science, but he wanted to cut the useless manpower.

bastard :mad: bahrainis.
they did not want to listen to the same idea from the 'infidel' andré dosé but are happy to listen to a fellow arab. really shows the mentality here. :ugh:
had they listened back then, imagine the millions that could have been saved!

[boiler]

There's a good article in the Financial Times
GF has 19 A340s???

imagine the millions that could have been saved!

Not to mention many of the routes that were shut down over the years. I count at least 17 stations over the last 10 years.

[DesertHawk]

guys he stated today if u were listening, "about 10 or so regional aircraft".

that is what i heard anyways. atleast this guy stands up and says something. he even put the office people in their place stating over the last 20 years this was more like a charity for work lol!!!! anyways it all depends on implementation

[Mike.Park]

Apart from shanghai, hyderabad and bangalore, anyone know the other 12 routes to be axed?

[DesertHawk]

just curious how u even know it is 12 routes? heard no solid number at that meeting about that

[fractional]

These articles, Gulf Air restructuring to concentrate on regional operations (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/11/23/335316/gulf-air-restructuring-to-concentrate-on-regional-operations.html) and Gulf Air to cut staff, may sell planes, Bahrain Aviation, Transportation - Maktoob Business (http://business.maktoob.com/20090000399790/Gulf_Air_to_cut_staff_may_sell_planes/Article.htm), basically restates what I wrote on P.65. We may argue the 10/10 narrow/wide body aircraft combination for a 15/10 or 15/5, but GF has to readdress his Bahrain clientele where the cash comes from. And this includes cargo.
Poaching pax from other Gulf countries will not make money. QR/EY/EK, among LCCs, will do cheaper. Through traffic will be only viable if pax spend some time and money in Bahrain buying GF or Bahrain associated products.
However, what does Bahrain have to offer versus, let's say, the UAE? In the UAE you can go to places, inland, mountainous terrain, beaches facing the Gulf and the Indian Ocean, attractive shooping, etc.. This is NO rocket science.

[Skybeds]

say good bye to the 330s .. majalis plans are to reduce the order of those planes or to cancel them

[Mike.Park]

just curious how u even know it is 12 routes?

Reuters reported (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSGEE5AM0XA20091123?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0) that GF announced 15 axed routes of which 3 have already been named, which leaves us with 12

[evilatp]

My guess is that there will be 10-15 Embraers, 25-30 A320's and 5 A330's. Just a guess, but from the meeting and the planned changes in route structure it seems like a logical fleet distribution. Don't forget that this plan is supposed to take 3 years. Might be more like 5 years the way things move in the Gulf.

[behramjee]

If I was a betting man, I would add LCA and ATH to the list of routes that would get the axe.

I would also bet on regional destinations such as Isfahan, Bandar Abbas, Tashkent, Almaty and Basra being added to the network. These flights along with many others in the GCC region would likely be flown within 2 years by E190s I reckon!

These E 190s are ideally suited for GF's low volume short haul regional flights within the Persian Gulf area rather than the larger A 320s.

One positive thing to arise out of all this is that GF A 320s will soon get PTVs :D installed in every seat!

[ddd]

I somehow don't think that Bahrain Air is going to be so happy about this???

[brassplate]

as always, when a destination like shanghai starts to pick up after a development period, gf pulls out leaving everyone guessing. that is one of the only things that gf excels at, next to losing over a million a day.

[hunter320]

bastard http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif bahrainis.
they did not want to listen to the same idea from the 'infidel' andré dosé but are happy to listen to a fellow arab. really shows the mentality here.


Samer majali is half English....... what r u on about Brass...............

[LOC GREEN]

Gulf Air unveils growth strategy to build sustainable and dynamic national airline | Gulf Air | AMEinfo.com (http://www.ameinfo.com/217057.html)

[ddd]

Will Bahrain Air survive or merge with GF?:confused:

[Skybeds]

the communication letter stated that the airline may make the airplanes from 3 class configuration to 2 class configuration. so in what way GF will be different from Bahrain air?

[brassplate]

Samer majali is half English....... what r u on about Brass...............

cunter320,
i was not talking about majali. i was talking about the smartarses who hire and fire the ceos...the board members...and in extension, the shura group, the parliament members, the government, the bahrainis. a good example is you with your lack of understanding of my accusations.

CUT OUT THE INSULTS EGGW:=

[Heleheleyani]

Brass what hunter was trying to say is he's half British and they listen to him, you misunderstood him and call him names, I think you should stop worrying about Gulfair and try to be happy wherever you are.

[Bombay HF]

I can't see most Indian destinations going while there is so much reliance on cheap sub-continent labour in the Gulf region. If anything, keep India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Manila and cancel the rest.

[Sal-e]

Nice one, olbie.

If only everyone started to think clearly with their heads and not their emotions (ahem..brassplate:{) about the new direction and business plan, Gulf Air will finally manage to sort itself out of the red.

The plan by CEO Majali has obviously been thought out properly, hence the reason for the several months for it's conception. Unfortunately, the solution requires a step back (if you can call it that) in order to take two or three steps forward.

A sacrifice in prestige and pride takes courage, a trait that is lacking in the region. I, for one, love a good fight. All kudos to Majali and GF.

[gf-jr]

Hi,
Just a few questions, and comments as i'm not a specialist but interested in aviation.
1. Whats the purpose of buying something smaller than the A320? Aren't these good enough and suit gf's regional network?
2. @ olbie: dropping CDG, and FRA? Aren't these routes profitable at the moment? And I understood from your comment that Zurich and Milan could be new destinations? If i'm not mistaken gf used to go to both destinations (its either Geneva or Zurich, not sure) during the 90's, but were cancelled due to low traffic (if i'm not mistaken again). Adding destinations in the former Soviet Republics, does the traffic justify that? Sorry lots of questions :). I think that gf should first focus on its current network as there are lots of potential if things were planned properly.
3. Gf should seriously consider improving its products in order to be competitive. So we should wait and see what will be offered by James Park, does anyone know when are the new livery and cabin interiors going to be unveiled?
4. Concerning the workforce issue, besides laying off excess staff, the management should even consider overhauling the retirement benefit scheme, as i said before, especially for grade 10 and 11 staff, especially that after the recent changes things got worse for former grade 10 and 11 employees. Benefits should be distributed in a more justifiable manner.

[downNOgreens]

Today's GDN

"We do not have the numbers yet, but those employees who have their heart and soul with the company and wish to be part of its turnaround, will remain and grow with us," he said.

Wait a second. GF doesn't pay me for my 'heart and soul'. I'm here for ONE reason and ONE reason alone, financial reward!! I do have a passion for my job that has nothing to do with GF and more to do with my professionalism. But now they want my 'heart and soul' as well?
Is my job at risk if they can't have it (heart and soul)?

[hunter320]

well i dont want to get in to nonsence arguments with Brass....

heleheleyani: you got my point...

Brass: all i got to say is : .......SAD........

[Heleheleyani]

by the way does anyone know why AA still didn't publish the rosters ?

Why can't he even send us a message to apologise for the late rosters ?

[T O G A Boy]

Wow Brass, you really do have a grudge against GF and Bahrainis. That leads me to one conclusion and that is either you were kicked out of GF or shafted by Bahrainis. Its one of the two, cause a professional would not behave or express himself so profoundly with hatred and despise.
Your attitude is obsolete in today's standards of speech...
As Hunter correctly said... SAD .....

[behramjee]

-Final network 55 destinations, around 15 routes to be cut, around 20 to be added
-"Few" European destinations, Zurich and Milan mentionned as financial centers
-"1 or 2" in the far eastI would bet on MXP and ZRH being served with A 319s or A 320s. As far as the Far East is concerned, it can only be refering to SIN and HKG. But the problem with that is SIN cannot survive as a terminator service unless the flight is extended to CGK or DPS. Same problem exists with HKG unless this flight can get extended to CEB!


New destinations to be added in Middle East, Iraq, Iran, former Soviet Republics, East Africa. Goal is to fly a minimum of twice a day to all destinations.The East Africa destination that warrants GF flights is ADD only. There is a big O&D market segment on this route which people can see for themselves by analyzing the loads on ET's flights to/from BAH itself.


I expect CDG, FRA, ATH, LCA + most of India destinations to be cut.I fully expect IST LCA and ATH to be suspended but not CDG and FRA. The BKK and KUL flights survive largely on traffic generated from FRA and CDG. Plus GF gets huge traffic from CDG to MCT as well! I expect though those extra additional flights operated during the peak season to CDG (2) and FRA (4) to be definitely cut. Plus remember both CDG and FRA are very important gateways for GF's offline EU and North America stations.:ok:


Fleet:

-Around 20 320s
-Around 10 RJs
-Fleet size 35 that leaves 5 330s or lessThe A 320's I feel will be a mixture of A 320s and A 319s. 10 RJ's should be E190s which are the best aircraft to use on low density GCC and new Central Asia/Iran/Iraq flights. Also GF cannot survive with 5 A 332s because 12 weekly MNL flights + triple daily LHR + 10 weekly BKK + 5 weekly KUL + daily FRA + daily CDG + 10 weekly JED + double daily RUH + double daily KTM + 10 weekly DAC require at least a dozen A 332s!:ugh:

Aircraft configuration: "good" economy and "super-business."The removal of F class from GF's WB fleet is definitely needed! If an airline of the stature of QR doesnt see fit to have F class seats installed on board its flagship B 77Ws which fly to USA then nor does GF!:=


Finally, anybody who thinks PVG is making money or close to break-even is severely misinformed. 100% true! :D

[EGGW]

Brass is taking some time out from this thread. Please add him to your IGNORE list, works wonders.

Please keep things nice, or the post gets binned.

EGGW

[Skybeds]

Hi,
Just a few questions, and comments as i'm not a specialist but interested in aviation.
1. Whats the purpose of buying something smaller than the A320? Aren't these good enough and suit gf's regional network?
2. @ olbie: dropping CDG, and FRA? Aren't these routes profitable at the moment? And I understood from your comment that Zurich and Milan could be new destinations? If i'm not mistaken gf used to go to both destinations (its either Geneva or Zurich, not sure) during the 90's, but were cancelled due to low traffic (if i'm not mistaken again). Adding destinations in the former Soviet Republics, does the traffic justify that? Sorry lots of questions http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif. I think that gf should first focus on its current network as there are lots of potential if things were planned properly.
3. Gf should seriously consider improving its products in order to be competitive. So we should wait and see what will be offered by James Park, does anyone know when are the new livery and cabin interiors going to be unveiled?
4. Concerning the workforce issue, besides laying off excess staff, the management should even consider overhauling the retirement benefit scheme, as i said before, especially for grade 10 and 11 staff, especially that after the recent changes things got worse for former grade 10 and 11 employees. Benefits should be distributed in a more justifiable manner.
i couldn't agree with you more. The removal of F class sea isn't a bad idea but GF could easily get those F class seats packed with pax if only it could reassure people that there may not be any unexpected delays.plus, the IFE in first class is worst than QRs economy class ( im not exaggerating). so why would people want to travel in such a outdated cabin?
and what would be the difference between GF and bahrain air as both of them will have narrow body aircraft and 2 class configuration..
the "regional jets"wont make much profit for GF as the airplane wont be able to carry much cargo. the airline makes alot of money from their cargo services.
hopefully GF wont downsize their 330s to 5 . that would be a kick in the teeth.
l

[T O G A Boy]

I hope GF doesnt downsize it's WB fleet except their jurassic state 340s.
many a time i have seen F/C empty but J/C packed along with E/C.
That is surely a loss in revenue. Many destinations were closed down which had a high yield and everyone wondered why. Hopefully they will add some profit making destinations. I wish Gulf Air all the best from all my heart cause it really is a great company.

[Desert Diner]

The removal of F class sea isn't a bad idea

Unfortunately they can't get a large net increase in Business class seats if they replace them. I doubt they have a big impact on revenue anymore.

[IFE]

Profitability from new routes?
Making money on new routes will be difficult as return on investment on new routes would take years to make.

More investment for RJ? More money to be wasted.
New aircraft, new training, new simulator, and the list goes on. Wet-lease? FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD!

Selling A340s?
They are not Toyota Corolla and would take year(s) to get rid of them. Unless you sell them at a very deep discount, or with the condition that they are in, sell them like scrap metal.

[boiler]

Selling A340s?
They are not Toyota Corolla and would take year(s) to get rid of them. Unless you sell them at a very deep discount, or with the condition that they are in, sell them like scrap metal.

From what I heard, this is happening right now with 2 of their old A340s.

As far as the Far East is concerned, it can only be referring to SIN and HKG. My bet would be MNL and KUL (political reasons).

BKK would be on the chop list in my opinion but only if they get those A319LR first in order to put them on FRA and CDG (which would take 2 years at least)?

[Skybeds]

Profitability from new routes?
Making money on new routes will be difficult as return on investment on new routes would take years to make.

More investment for RJ? More money to be wasted.
New aircraft, new training, new simulator, and the list goes on. Wet-lease? FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD!

Selling A340s?
They are not Toyota Corolla and would take year(s) to get rid of them. Unless you sell them at a very deep discount, or with the condition that they are in, sell them like scrap metal.
that is true. that majali is a fraud. i just dont want the airline to lose their 330s. the national carrier of "business friendly Bahrain" doesnt even have F class in them?
If the airline continues to lose money majali would try to cut costs by removing the lavatory from their airplane because no one uses them any more :ugh:

[Da Do Ron Ron]

"business friendly Bahrain" :rolleyes:

[T O G A Boy]

this whole episode is sad.. I can just see more fraud imposed on this " Ill airline"...I hope we recover from this mess soon...

[ex desert dweller]

From one of the industries best First Class service to this. How sad

[downNOgreens]

Maybe brassplate isn't the only one who is SAD after all. The whole situation is SAD. The plan is SAD. The whole airline is SAD. He does have a point if he is an expat. He may well be out of a job like me and many others.

[Panama Jack]

C'mon guys. I hear a lot of hand-wringing about the demise of First Class however let's face it, the business model of Gulf Air is broken (has been for years) and it is rare these days to have a "genuine" revenue First Class passenger. All those people who "want" first class certainly aren't ponying up the money to buy it.

Having experienced Etihad and Qatar Airways' business classes, I consider them equal or superior to Gulf Air's First Class product today. Simply put, First Class on Gulf Air has become irrelevent and it will be interesting to see what Mr. Majali's "Super-Business Class" will look like.

Here we go again with the trite malaise that affects GF in particular-- any new CEO is automatically viewed with contempt and labled as "corrupt" or a "fraud." No wonder that some in the industry consider the only way forward for Gulf Air is to shut it down and start a new airline, as has been done with a few other airlines in other countries.

[gf-jr]

more comments from a non-specialist:
1. F/C shouldn't disappear but should be improved and this applies to the rest of the classes. GF's F/C is now Oman Air J/C (if i'm not mistaken as they just revealed their new cabin interiors), and its j and y cabins are way behind the other airlines in the Gulf. As I said before we should what and see the new interiors which will be designed by James Park (hope that they will choose the right colors this time, the colors which are used in the economy class cabin are horrible; grey and turquoise for the seats and gold for the carpets.... lots of colors!). Or GF should use the Virgin Atlantic model: (if f/c's aren't profitable enough) A super jc + premium economy+ regular economy.
2. Sin and HKG are good destinations to operate to as long as they are profitable. GF can consider reopening these destinations but through indirect flights for ex. it could do bah-kul-sin or bah-sin-kul, as both destinations are near each other, and there is good traffic between both cities. The same applies to hkg GF could resume its flights to HKG via BKK as it used to do before, i remember these flights used to be full during the festive seasons (why did GF end its services to HKG? Was it not profitable for them to go there?)

[Mike.Park]

Maybe brassplate isn't the only one who is SAD after all. The whole situation is SAD. The plan is SAD. The whole airline is SAD. He does have a point if he is an expat. He may well be out of a job like me and many others.

Agree. You can't blame brassplate for bringing up the issue of citizenship considering we're talking about an airline here that has said in public (http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/347366-gulf-air-developments-72.html#post5309577), that it's lay-offs will be based on the colour of your passport.

[Albergineman]

HRH CROWN PRINCE RECEIVES AL ZAIN AND MAJALI

date: 25 11, 2009

MANAMA, NOV. 25. (BNA) HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS CROWN PRINCE SALMAN BIN HAMAD AL KHALIFA, THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BOARD CHAIRMAN TODAY LAUDED GULF AIR (GA)'S ENORMOUS PLANS AND PRACTICAL EFFORTS WHICH WILL ENSURE ITS FUTURE SUCCESS AND CONTINUITY.
THIS CAME AS HRH CROWN PRINCE RECEIVED TODAY AT RIFFAA PALACE BAHRAIN MUMTALAKAT HOLDING COMPANY BOARD CHAIRMAN TALAL AL-ZAIN AND GULF AIR CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER SAMER AL MAJALI WHO UPDATED HIM ON GA'S DETAILED FUTURE PLANS. HRH CROWN PRINCE PRAISED THE ORIGINAL AND REASONABLE PLAN, WISHING THAT GA WILL BENEFIT CITIZENS IN SPITE OF THE DIFFICULTIES IT FACES CURRENTLY. TALAL AL ZAIN AND SAMER AL MAJALI ALSO INFORMED HRH CROWN PRINCE OF THE PROCEDURES TAKEN TO REVIEW THE PREVIOUS ALLOWANCES AND THE CREATION OF NEW ONES TO PROTECT THE COMPANY'S EMPLOYEES. TALAL AL ZAIN AND SAMER AL MAJALI EXTENDED THEIR THANKS TO HRH CROWN PRINCE AND AFFIRMED THAT HIS INCESSANT SUPPORT AND DIRECTIVES HAVE MOTIVATED THEM AND ALL EMPLOYEES TO EXERT MORE EFFORTS TO PRESERVE AND DEVELOP THIS NATIONAL COMPANY. PRESENT WERE HEAD OF CROWN PRINCE'S COURT SHAIKH KHALIFA BIN DUAIJ AND HRH CROWN PRINCE'S ADVISOR SHAIKH AHMED BIN KHALIFA. WHQ 25-NOV-2009 20:21

[Panama Jack]

i remember these flights used to be full during the festive seasons (why did GF end its services to HKG? Was it not profitable for them to go there?)

Yes, BKK-HKG was not profitable (low yield in an over-saturated market).

[ironbutt57]

Full seats doth not a profit assure:ok:

[Duh]

Brass is taking some time out from this thread. Please add him to your IGNORE list, works wonders.

Please keep things nice, or the post gets binned.

EGGW
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=5337335)

Censorship, alive and well in da gulf :}

[fractional]

From one of the industries best First Class service to this. How sadTruly sad if you could ever now compare with the service shown by this "oldie": 1976 | 0504 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1976/1976%20-%200504.html)

[Skybeds]

Truly sad if you could ever now compare with the service shown by this "oldie": 1976 | 0504 | Flight Archive (http://redirectingat.com/?id=42X487496&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flightglobal.com%2Fpdfarchive%2Fview%2F 1976%2F1976%2520-%25200504.html)
agreed,the airline used to get awards for best F class seats and best F class catering . And now that airline is in such a bad condition that it is forced to shut down their F class. Hopefully the plan wont be finalized. Then what would be the difference between bahrain air and Gulf air???????
narrow body livery .2 class configuration.
Hecvk even oman air would even get ahead of GF?
Majali should think about this plan once more

[downNOgreens]

Brass is taking some time out from this thread. Please add him to your IGNORE list, works wonders.

Please keep things nice, or the post gets binned.

EGGW


Censorship, alive and well in da gulf

Duh,
I'm tending to agree with you. Hey EGGW, please tell us you're not being paid by GF!!!:=

[bus_aviator]

Why is it that anytime someone starts telling the truth they get banned from this site? I thought that was the whole point of pprune, pick and filter the truth out of the 90% bull*&%$ that is posted on here...so that we get some sort of idea of what is happening in these airlines...and mr. mediator brassplate is bang on this time.

Shame shame mediator, BRASSPLATE GETS BACK ON!!!!

or is it time for pprune 2 ?

[Heleheleyani]

Brassplatebastard http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif bahrainis.
they did not want to listen to the same idea from the 'infidel' andré dosé but are happy to listen to a fellow arab. really shows the mentality here. :ugh:
had they listened back then, imagine the millions that could have been saved!Brassplate****er320,
i was not talking about majali. i was talking about the smartarses who hire and fire the ceos...the board members...and in extension, the shura group, the parliament members, the government, the bahrainis. a good example is you with your lack of understanding of my accusations.
CUT OUT THE INSULTS EGGW:=I don't agree with you, Bus aviator

this is a rumour network not a place to curse or being racist, as far as I know he's not even working for Gulfair anymore don't understand why he's holding such a grudge.

[T O G A Boy]

True this is a rumour network and each and every one of us has their opinion.
But racist remarks have no place here nor in our world today. And thats exactly what Brass did " being racist"
Now regarding foreigners getting laid off. I dont agree with this, but do you blame Gulf Air as a company who type rated many foreigners and they just vanished after getting enough hours to join other airlines. They treated GF as a gateway to their aviation world, whereas a local would have served his company with dignity and loyalty...

[Not Gulfair CEO]

This is probabaly the most depressing time for the Gulf air.The sad part is the way talal zain and majali misled every one.
They failed to mention that the plan was not created by them but as usual a miltimillion dollar consultant was hired to draw the plan.
Next question is if this company has any experience in the middle east market? The answer is no.
Did they do their home work while revealing the Embraer? did they come up with the figure that will cost mumtalakaat to intoduce a new fleet? well their answer was "we will work on it".
Did airbus and boeing agreed upon order cancellation? Airbus did not and boeing meeting still to go. what is penalty? no one knows.
Did iran and saudi agree to let gulfair operate to their regional market. no
Plan is to bring passengers from 20 new destinations and fly them with the other airlines to all around the world, so did they negtiate with any airline how they will split this high yield revenue.No
Did they carry out any study on any single new destination? wether it would be feasable operate, if there any passenger demand?No
All these destination are served by very cheap low cost airlines so would any passenger will be paying gulfair more more money for an embrear ride?
the new plan was revealed on assumptions and on uncalculated risks.
God help us all

[ex desert dweller]

Nothing changes. In days of yore when outside influence was brought in as so called "Experts" the rot began to set in.

One of the many brought in was SAS, who were multi-national owned similar to Gulf Air. At the time of their advice, they too were having their own problems. And so it went on.

When will they ever learn?