Gulf Air Developments

[buba]

Sorry dude.. What does jlo and shakin her ass around the fareast gat to do with operating domestic flights in saudi..lol.. The only two and two most of us would like to put together is her butt cheeks.. Lol

[Mr. R]

buba what he means is that jlo chartered a GF plane for booty shaking in far east (to some of the destinations we have lost)

but yeah that's my type of putting two and two together as well

[buba]

A peanut butter sandwich Mr R ;)

[John21UK]

@ buba. I was actually quite proud of my cryptic description of events. :p

[buba]

Am more into cyrillic than cryptic ;)

[Landflap]

Now I'm getting seriously worried !

[John21UK]

Bahrain Air is feeling the strain as well with big changes to their winter program:
Bahrain Air Scales Back Operation in W12 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/11/15/bn-w12/)

I know it's a thread about Gulf Air but they announced making a operational (?) profit some months back and I figured they were doing ok ish. And it's a small local market...

[55Jay]

Bahrain – Kathmandu Service reduce from planned daily to 2 weekly

At least staying on current sked.

Tx John.

[55Jay]

and I did track back to your reply, did the math, I thought it was :D

[John21UK]

A poster on Airliners.net reported the following:

I've read on another forum that it has been reported in the Bahrani press recently that GF will only continue to operate the routes that it has agreed financial support from the government for and that BKK is not one of them. The thread lists the quoted cities as:

Abu Dhabi
Amman
Baghdad
Basra
Beirut
Cairo
Damascus
Dammam
Doha
Dubai
Erbil
Isfhan
Islamabad
Istanbul
Jeddah
Karachi
Kuwait
Lahore
London
Mashhad
Madina Munawara
Mumbai
Muscat
Najaf
New Delhi
Paris
Peshawar
Riyadh
Sanaa'
Shiraz
Tehran

So it's only two long haul routes would be LHR and CDG.

The thread i read though offers no link, just that 'I read in a Bahrani Arabic Newspaper'....

Can any of our ANET friends in the mid east shed any light?



So I'm missing; Addis, Aden, Bangkok, Colombo, Cochin, Copenhagen, Dhaka, Frankfurt, Kathmandu, Manila, Nairobi, Rome. Any others? I just can't believe some of them.

A few things that make me doubt this list and how old it is.
- A previous report by Gulf Air said they cancelled Basra but it is mentioned in the list above. Link: Gulf Air Shelves Planned Basra Service Resumption | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/10/24/gf-bsr-w12cxld/)
- Iran flights: yeah right...
- Recent increase in flights to some of these destinations. Why do that if you are planning to cancel them?
- New aircraft (2 x A321's) coming.

Too many contradictions here...

[55Jay]

I hear lady boys :{ in BKK already.

The Shura council can't morally approve of flights to Land of Smiles.

Hope King K will intervene.

[55Jay]

My last trip to BKK (on QR), surrounded by women in full abaya.

GF is getting jammed into a losing position here by the long beards.

BKK is a money maker. Men, women and dirty expats alike.

[Calmcavok]

That was the list in the Daily Tribune a few weeks ago. Doesn't sound plausible given the recent announcement about the fleet size.

[John21UK]

Thanks, I missed that one. I can't imagine them dropping BKK/MNL anyway. The amount of traffic going/coming from elsewhere through the network is simply too big.

[John21UK]

I thought this system has ben operational for at least one year?
Or will we go down to a seperation of less then 10nm on approach? (scary!:p)
Bahrain gets new air navigation radar system, 24x7 Bahrain News (http://www.twentyfoursevennews.com/aviation/bahrain-gets-new-air-navigation-radar-system/)

[buba]

Been told that a bidding system has been handed in a while back but still pending top management approval

Also heard through the grapevine CPH might be axed.

[ferris]

The article doesn't describe it very well, but the "new radar" refers to an upgraded secondary surveillance radar which adds Mode S. It is a safety improvement- we can see if you have set the correct cleared altitude, or are cheating on speeds :ok:
Yes, we've had it for a while, but it isn't a fact until someone cuts the ribbon and has had their picture taken ;)

[John21UK]

Us Pilots, cheating on speed! How dare you accuse us of such an atrocity! LOL

[John21UK]

Could things still go t*ts up?
Unions to discuss layoff plan today:
Gulf Daily News » Local News » Union to discuss Gulf Air's layoff plan (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=342147)

This is definately a good proposal:
Gulf Daily News » Local News » Parliament to discuss air fuel subsidy (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=342160)

[John21UK]

Still no clarity on the mass redundancies. It seems like this option is getting more expensive by the day: Gulf Daily News » Local News » Higher payout call by union (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=342242)

And why is the GATU not pushing those in power away from the idea of shrinking/redundancies and letting them see it's not the solution!!!

[Landflap]

Well it IS the solution, regrettable though it is, if you are overmanned. Walk around the pink palace & see what I mean. If the plan is to reduce aircraft. you are obviously going to be overmanned. A benchmark used to be total personnel per aircraft. Don't have access but it is probably worth some quick research and simple maths to see that GF is definitely overmanned. Once again, in deciding a redundancy package, the greedy will be screaming for more while the company bleeds on a daily basis. Absolutely lacking in a road map, a hard business plan & the ability to see it through. Used to be called Management !

[40&80]

The solution to Gulf Airs problems is simple....
The King should decree everybody is to pray ten times a day for Gulf Air to be profitable...
I read in the GDN that the King recently decreed everyone was to pray for rain...and 7.99mm soon arrived.
Gulf Airs case being more critical requires ten times a day.

[John21UK]

That's just too funny! Who knows, it might just help.:D

[55Jay]

40/80, they need to pray for peppermint candies to get solutions for GF.

Clear in that GDN article, they prayed for rain and got a presidential envoy from the Philippines. :confused:

Gulf Daily News » Local News » Praying for rain... (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=342053)

[Soft Altitude]

Seems like it is a bit late to start praying if you have a look at the latest S.M. Hello Gulf Air note; a part from being diplomatically vague, we are being told that " change is inevitable for the sake of the company in the long run ".
Fair enough, I don't think anyone would use the "change is inevitable" for a change that will be a good one ( at least for those concerned and I am sure we all know who will be the affected ones ).
So, instead of praying, maybe it is time to start packing ...

[buba]

I reckon the met department leaked the forecast wich was spot on for a change lol

[John21UK]

Three new destinations in India are being looked at pending goverment approval:
Bahrain carrier Gulf Air plans to fly to three more cities in India - The Economic Times (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/bahrain-carrier-gulf-air-plans-to-fly-to-three-more-cities-in-india/articleshow/17386407.cms)

Also, Saudi postpones new aviation licenses till end of DEC 2012 as it needs more time to review the bids.
http://tradearabia.com/touch/article/TTN/226397

[John21UK]

IF there is any truth to this it looks like Gulf Air managed to find a new operator for one (or all remaining) A340's.

http://www.skygreece.com/
Check reply nbr#4
New Airline: Skygreece Airlines — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5622044/)

[ironbutt57]

Good luck to that operation!!!! But Gf dont OWN those 340's do they???

[buba]

Yeah, couple of arabic rags reporting that the board of directors accepted his resignation.

[AeroForce]

GF resembles a premier league football club managed by oiligarchs.

Too many managers succeeding eachother, without having a free hand to manage and or a long term plan and a sense of direction.

Of course SM didn't resign, but was asked to leave with a nice fat bonus.
The new board of directors taking full control.

AForce

[John21UK]

Majali's Resignation has been accepted by the board:
Arabian Aerospace - Majali quits Gulf Air (http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/majali-quits-gulf-air.html)

Who will follow him up, let me guess, a Bahraini?

[Landflap]

Aeroforce, do you mean 'Oligarchs' ? If you really meant "OILIGARCHS" it will be one of the funniest play on words for today !

[Albergineman]

Downsizing in its way... That's why SM resigned...:(

[Chuck Y]

I believe the real reason behind SM's dept is there is no hope of him signing the Bombardier deal & hence no commission.

[Sal-e]

CEOs are averaging a year and a half at GF, these last six years.

[millerscourt]

Bit like Chelsea Football Club.:}

[IFE]

Chelsea has the money.
GF does not.

The owner of Chelsea knows what he want.
The owner of GF does not.

Chelsea has big ambition and willing to invest heavily to achieve its goals.
GF does not.

Mr. Roman is the man of action, if the manager does not do his job right, he is out.
GF does not.

[55Jay]

Bahrain finally wore him down. Doing business in Bahrain can be like playing cricket with one hand tied around your bollocks. :ugh:

Fair winds and following seas, SM - or whatever you airmen say.

[Che Guevara]

Never a dull moment at GF is there? See the latest below:

Gulf Daily News » Local News » MPs vote out Gulf Air board (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=343104)

[jackx123]

"British Airways, which has 520 aircraft, only has eight vice-presidents. But Gulf Air - which has a fleet just five per cent of that size - has 24 vice-presidents, each earning BD14,000 monthly.:ok:

Love it :D

[LNAV VNAV -]

Well, what has to be done is obvious: Double the number of vice-presidents and get rid of 20 aircraft and all expat pilots!! :ok:

[slowjet]

One President for each vice then. Same old !

[John21UK]

"Gulf Air has suffered enough from boards lacking knowledge in the past and because of that, firms that are not specialised have been brought in to provide help - but instead of doing so, they have drained the company further," he said as parliament met yesterday.



"Can we trust the two firms that have suggested reducing destinations and then caused Gulf Air further losses by having around 1,800 employees sacked under downsizing plans?" he asked.



"Gulf Air has no strategy and the change of chief executives over the past five years shows that no-one knows who is running Gulf Air," he said.



It is starting to look like we are starting to see some common sense.

[flame_bringer]

I'm starting to get relieved after having read this article, Finally the MPs started living in reality rather than believing in some failed consulting firm that never achieved anything in the aviation industry.
Lets hope no downsizing takes place and only the real issues get addressed for the betterment of the company.

[buba]

Heard the new CEO might be the current deputy CEO.

[tmax]

That is the best news!!! HE HE.......

[jackx123]

only thing missing is a fleet manager per aircraft :p

[buba]

the big wigs have been in meetings for the past two days well into the night, saw them beemers and lexs lined up at the VIP enterance, and a solitary light in one of the wings.... Looks like the watergate scandal...lol

[John21UK]

Pakistan opens another airport to International traffic:
5 airlines to operate from Sialkot | ePaper | DAWN.COM (http://epaper.dawn.com/~epaper/DetailImage.php?StoryImage=21_11_2012_009_002)

Did Gulf Air even apply or have they simply not been chosen?
I would have thought that the Pakistani market is quite important to Gulf Air.
Every other important (regional) airline seems to want to go there, just no mention of Gulf Air.

[mickeydazzler]

As Michael O Leary once said...a consultant is somebody who takes your wrist
Watch.....tells you the time...and then gives u back your watch....

Hope things work out for all my friends over there...if you guys go 20 aircraft
You'll be eaten alive by all of us carriers in the Gulf.

And you guys were the FIRST !...How did your government let everybody pass you by !

Tri star days ? Forget it

[mickeydazzler]

As Michael O Leary once said...a consultant is somebody who takes your wrist
Watch.....tells you the time...and then gives u back your watch....

Hope things work out for all my friends over there...if you guys go 20 aircraft
You'll be eaten alive by all of us carriers in the Gulf.

And you guys were the FIRST !...How did your government let everybody pass you by !

Tri star days ? Forget it

[Landflap]

John 21. I think you are missing the point here. GF is a Company haemorrageing money on a daily basis. It is a failing company by any test device, not just economic. This will not be the time to think of a new route to Pakistan! Many posters have offered solutions. We all know the solutions and so will the new Board. Lets hope they now act quickly. Time is running out. Get lean, get mean & recruit Managers from the top down who will not have their hands tied. But John, I do admire your loyalty. You might soon learn that it has no place in todays dog eat dog world. Oh & by the way, what happened to all those guys on MSC courses ? They will have lots of answers to GF's woes. Once again, wasted talent. Gf part sponsored these people in the hope that the recipients would have a management input. Why are they not listening now ?

[buba]

Heard the head of cabin services quit.

[mamamia]

head of cabin crew and head of commercial quit

[John21UK]

There are maybe several people below them all with nearly the same function waiting in line.

[buba]

Just wondering, did they quit or were asked to leave?

[John21UK]

Nothing too major if these are supposed to be the first round of cutbacks:
Gulf Air Service Reductions Jan – Mar 2013 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/12/09/gf-jan13/)

[EK2EYengineer]

Its very quite looks like all the writings were done by only 3 guys who are history now

[John21UK]

Let's hope so, but if you look at the other Gulf Air thread on here it's mentioning a reduction of 17 destinations and the two new A321's that are ready and waiting in Toulouse won't be taken up. (all rumors without any evidence yet)

Let's keep our fingers crossed and start praying for a happy 2013!!!

[flame_bringer]

John21uk
Ignore these baseless rumors and keep your confidence up, I am pretty sure that the 321s are arriving as it makes no sense to store a brand new aircraft.

[40&80]

Well if it makes no sense... it is probably guaranteed to happen at G.F.
Keep praying 24/7.

[EK2EYengineer]

Dont worry both A321 will be here soon they were suppose to be here last week of novemebr but some last minute glitch delayed them butt they will cum

[OneMonth]

As mentioned in other thread, there is a possibility that GF not going to includes those 2 new A321 into their fleet...that what I heard; but again it might be a baseless rumor that is flying around.
It seems that nobody knows what is the plan although there is a rumor (again) that the management should has a firm decision on quantity and fleet to be remained with GF by this week.:bored:

[Flightpathvector]

Most probably scenario is fleet back to 20 and all expat out.
321 will never come.
Fist step is already on reducing frequency, all the rest will come

[CLB-1]

In an airline HQ in Bahrain, feeling it was time for a shake-up, a new CEO was hired. The new boss was determined to rid the company of all slackers and stamp his authority right out of the gate.

On a tour of the 3rd floor, the CEO noticed a guy leaning on a wall. The room was full of VPs and he wanted to let them know that he meant business.

He walked up to the guy leaning against the wall and asked, "How much money do you make a week?" A little surprised, the young man looked at him and replied, "I make 100BD a week. Why?"

The CEO then hands the guy 800BD in cash and screams, "Here's two months' pay, now GET the f*ck OUT and don't come back!" Feeling pretty good about himself, the CEO looked around the room and asked:

"Does anyone want to tell me what that f*cking slacker did here?"

From across the room came an amused voice: "Pizza delivery guy from Dominos."

[buba]

Article in a local rag, quoting from sources, gulf air lookin to axe 2000 jobs both expat and local from both in/out station.

[Cold Zero]

another article in tomorrow newspaper denies firing 2k employees , "reliable" source according to the paper ... GF dilemma

[millerscourt]

If GF was an animal it would have been put out of its misery long ago:sad:

[John21UK]

Listen very carefully to te first 2 minutes and you get a very good idea of GF's Management style dating back some 10 years..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nz_8JwtJlk

[LNAV VNAV -]

Gulf Daily News » Local News » Airline jobs push (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=343826)

[Panama Jack]

Anybody heard this joke before?

It’s time for a new person to be the CEO.

During a meeting, the outgoing CEO mentions: “I’ve prepared 3 envelopes for you. Here they are, but don’t open them yet. If you ever get into problems, open the first envelope. If you have further trouble, open the second envelope. If you have even more trouble, open the third envelope. Each envelope contains suggestions telling you what to do to get through a crisis. Good luck!”

At first, the new CEO does well, as the company’s employees eagerly help him learn the ropes and give him the benefit of the doubt. But after that honeymoon period, things start going downhill.

So opens the first envelope. It contains these words of advice: “Blame your predecessor.” He’s so happy to read those words, because they’re so right! He tells the employees and stockholders that the company’s problems are just the delayed consequences of the mistakes that his predecessor made, and he’ll usher in the dawn of a new, better era. That pep talk works. Everybody is inspired by his gung-ho forward-looking attitude, and the company improves. But eventually, things start going downhill again.

So the CEO goes to his desk drawer and opens the second envelope. It contains the suggestion: “Reorganize the company.” He’s so happy to read those words, because they’re so right! He fires the employees who are deadwood and invents new ways of managing everything. That improves the company. But inevitably, things start going downhill again.

So he returns to his executive suite to open the third envelope. It says: “Prepare three new envelopes.”

[buba]

Heard GF increased the fare prices by 10%, also heard 321 might do a KRT wet lease.

[jackx123]

LNAV: rightfully so.

"Either the leading pack is from a certain country that employs its own people, or when Bahrainis are employed they are made to work longer hours, have less benefits and stressful operations."

Wow it's called work, or MNL double turnaround.

[Panama Jack]

Macdonald's musings:

Gulf Daily News » News Details » Comment (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=343876)

[John21UK]

The only thing with that was that he assumes those Bahraini 'captains' are no good and that is rubish. He never considered that someone (Tamkeen?) paid a lot of money to have them trained without there being a job. Now suddenly someone thinks he has a brainwave by saying that only Bahrainies are loyal and should pilot Gulf Air planes. What about experience/training capacity/ do I dare mention the word expansion.

Yes you can let them fly for Gulf Air IF there is space for them. You can't boot someone out and just replace 'numbers'. You have to consider the long term first. Maybe someone in the region has space and they are able to work out some sort of construction involving Gulf Air. GCC union/best buddies/money in abundance etc...

[40&80]

Mr Macdonald is obviously the right man to be the next CEO of Gulf Air...his knowledge of aviation and pilots is amazing.

[buba]

Hez no ben elton (not the singer folks).. Thats for sure.

[flame_bringer]

Employing 100 unexperienced pilots at once blindly just because they are bahraini and replacing the experienced guys that are running the company and have put up with all the pressure and hardship the company has gone through to keep it running just because they are expat, is rather threatening to flight safety and the reputation of the airline and very ludicrous.
Things dont happen overnight and at that quick of a pace, and to turn 100 unexperienced guys into pilots in an airline which is already having a hard time is just ridiculous to think of, those MPs must be rational or better not involve themselves in things they have no expertise on, otherwise thier contributions will only be destructive to the airline rather than constructive.

[John21UK]

Well said. Let's hope the MP's see some sense!

[Landflap]

Mac failed the first stage of a four stage process at Hamble.Many rejects followed the next obvious step by growing hair long & going to unheard of Universities in order to take three years off at Tax-payers expense & graduate (if that is the word) with unheard of, second class degrees (if they graduated at all) & take up jobs as bus drivers. We mustn't take his lament too seriously although we all know MP's are unable to make informed decisions because most of the time,they are NOT informed. They are also horrendously blinkered and easily pursuaded. Not the group to run an international airline but there we have it. They do so because they were given that power & GF will continue to suffer.

Of course their call to employ 100 unemployed, minimally qualified pilots to replace expats, just because the former are Bahrainis is daft. We can all see that, even MacDonald (doesn't he run a Farm ?) !But the MP's, who run at an agenda are open to lobby. Get Lobbying if that is your only route .

Get mean, get lean but keep the best human assets, irrespective of race.

[Almag]

Meeting with HE Minister of Transport
sent on behalf of COO to all pilots

or FW: Meeting with Bahraini Pilots
sent on behalf of the Director of Coorperate Affairs and secretary to the Board.

[LNAV VNAV -]

Well, anybody went to the meeting??

[Flightpathvector]

Guys as i said run baby run.
This is the deadline for the expat. The minister give us some news. Riduction of fleet and keep habibies. So that mean the are preparing the wastebin for the expats starting from cucarachas guys and then up on performances base for the others. That's the appreciation for the peoples who serves the company for many years.
And all the stories finish in glory.

[ALFOPROF]

Briefly. Fleet reduction and expats at home.

[Panama Jack]

Perhaps just a little to brief there, ALFOPROF.

Could you quantify that please?

[ALFOPROF]

For details ask to fleet office but i guess that for expat is over starting from EMB

[buba]

The meeting basically was focused on the general situation of Gulf Air, it did not contain any technincal issues like other pilots meetings. Basically the Minister came and adviced that he was assigned to monitor the Board members at this phase of the change in Gulf Air, and since the pilots are an important factor he was adviced by the board member to talk to us. His main points were: 1- Gulf Air will not shut down, but the market is no longer as it was like before. The market shrank alot but GF remained the same size and thats why we have excess of manpower.2- GF will shrink but not as it was mentioned in the papers, it will shutdown some stations which are loosing and aswell is not benifiting Bahrain. So for example even if London is loosing yet it wont be closed as being an important hub.3- Bahraini Pilots will not be reduced, but the Expats might get affected with the reduction. The exact numbers will be announce soon and over phases.4- The fleet will only be consisting of Airbus 320 and 330 no more E170 and E190.5- For the time being there is no Idea about merging with Bahrain Air and that is not the case now.6- On the long term, there might be a plan to merge Gulf Air, Gulf Technics, GAA and Bahrain Airport Company.7- Corruption will be monitored and we advice every employee to report through the propper channels to fight such things.8- GF has been loosing over the years though one management to another and it has not been yet solved out. 9- The target now is to stop the bleeding, stabalize the company and then if situation permits we go for growth.10- Regarding the Bahraini pilots who are waiting for their Ab-initio training, the company would be happy to take them, but if the number of pilots has reached the requirements then they cannot just hire them without needs.11- People in the management from now on will be monitored for their Accountability, the Minister focused on having the right person at the right position. It does not matter if it is Bahraini or Expat as long as the job is done proffessionally and accurately.12- It is important for all our pilots to work together at this stage until things get stabalized and stop the negative rumors or thoughts being spread specially on the operation of GF.13- The PM had a big effect on exposing GF to the public in a bad way, thats why now we need to gain the public trust again internally and externally.

[LNAV VNAV -]

Buba, were you yourself at the meeting?

I was not there but I heard from someone who heard from someone who was there, that the minister specifically stated that the fleet would be reduced to 20 aircraft in the near future. Is this wrong?

Also, check the diference in your post and the previous one:

''...but the Expats might get affected with the reduction. The exact numbers will be announced soon and over phases.''

''...that for expat is over starting from EMB''

[John21UK]

There is no set plan yet. If the first proposed plan is selected thigs are not THAT bad. If that is rejected things are looking very bad. Reading between the lines it looks like the fleet will be reduced to around 28-30 aircraft, not 20. They are trying to use 'natural outflow' to cover the biggest redundancy numbers. Redundancy is based on 1, aircraft type and 2, expats on juniority.

For me I felt the minister was a genuine guy with a no nonsense approach. He made a lot of sense but obviously could not say much as even he doen not know yet.

The 27th looks to be the main date when the plan forward is announced. Then that needs to be worked out and they need to get their numbers right, that will take another 2 weeks minimum.

Remaining A321's coming in January and Embraer will cover a busy scheduele untill the end of Jan. Then finished. A319 will leave end of December already.

[buba]

LNAV.. I was away, i was sent the above summary.

[ALFOPROF]

John from which planet you came from?
You want some clrearest then yesterday?
And he didn't say criteria is fleet and seniority!!! He spoke of performances and it mean company discrection.
Do you ask way yestarday this meeting like this?
Do you have still trust on this?

[John21UK]

Sorry, I'm not even going into discussion on that one. Did you attend the seperate meeting with the COO as well. Guessed not. Re-read note 3 and 4 in buba's post. I think we all know where we stand within reason. Did I crisicise? No. We'll wait and see...

[LNAV VNAV -]

John check PMs

[ALFOPROF]

Sorry john nothing against u! We r in the same deep. Anyway my opinion is that us expat are no more wellcome here. But is my opinion.
I don't know if the meeting continue after minister and in anycase i heard enough.
I'm packing... Is marsalama time

[ironbutt57]

I dont think its fair to say expats arent welcome, its just a matter of fact that if the redundancies occur, the Bahrainis have priority, and that seems quite normal to me, all us expats are hired migrant workers....

[John21UK]

Very true. However saying that all companies work with the same system of determening redundancies is wrong. Allmost everywhere it's last in-first out based on seniority. Not on fleet and nationality. But it's their playing field and their rules. Take it on the chin and move on and upwards. Everything is for a reason...

[Sal-e]

A number I heard was 20% of flight crew. Of course this was just a 'coined' estimate. Even so, one would not just 'coin' a figure when it hasn't been estimated.
Assuming that figure were a good guess, then one would extrapolate from that statement with the following estimates.

400 pilots of which 200 are expats, 20% being the bottom 40 of the expat seniority.

Just guessing.

[LNAV VNAV -]

And yet, on the careers page, Gulf Air is announcing that it is hiring DEC! :ugh::D

[thegypsy]

They would not be the first Airline advertising for Pilots just before they folded:rolleyes:

[tmax]

Expats will find the way!! they have licences and passports to do that!! Bahrainis? God bless them !! they can not even apply for tourist visa for the rest of the world!! they destroyed their country and the airline !!

[Sal-e]

Then you add a hundred more licenced and unemployed tamkeen graduates and that figure becomes 140 from the bottom of the 'expats only' seniority list who will join the masalaama list.

[Yo767]

I am sorry to interrupt your fabulation party guys but GF with 20 airplanes, 100 Tamkeen boys to fly them and 140 expats leaving... That won't happen. The guy who calls the shots up there knows how to calculate the risk associated with level of experience in an airline's pilot group.

[ironbutt57]

Plus the time it would take to train those graduates

[John21UK]

Those 100 guys will not join Gulf Air acc to the minister if there is simly no space/demand. I'll quote him saying "anyone who thinks they will be joning if there is no space is crazy."

[buba]

Now, now boys and girls lets not vent anger on others who got nothin to do with the mess gulf air is in, nor the mess that some might find themselves in.

[EK2EYengineer]

The figure is 25 Aeroplanes and the date is 06 January
Good Lick!!!!!!!!!

[South Prince]

Perhaps the answer is easier than you may think; GF just forgot to clear the hiring page :uhoh:

[buba]

Kabul, erbil, aden axed..

[Sal-e]

Agreed, a hundred unemployed cadet pilots will not be ready inside a year. But I'm sure there will be a great political push for it.
I think just the fact that this meeting took place where there was a clear distinction and differentiation of the local and expat group, is enough concern for some.

[Flightpathvector]

I tough was a company with male management.
Manslaughter has just started.
Shooting on your back it's easy!
Upgrade at 2 different speed for local and expats.
2 different speed on everything. Now they are gonna fire expates.
This is the way they appreciate peoples loyalty. People present day and night even during the unrest.
The message is clear expats are no more wellcome!
That's the cruel reality

[LNAV VNAV -]

Airline in move to cut costs

By Ahmed Al Omari , Posted on » Friday, December 21, 2012
http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/images/pixel.jpg EXPATS working at Bahrain's national carrier will not receive severance packages if they are made redundant, as part of the airline's plan to cut costs, it has emerged.
Officials said Bahraini pilots will not lose their jobs as a result of Gulf Air's restructuring scheme, but confirmed the airline has stopped recruitment in all departments.
It comes as around 1,800 jobs could be axed as part of a deal to secure a BD185 million government bailout.


But at least we got a christmas e-card!

[John21UK]

It doesn't matter how many bums on seats you have, if the price ain't right it will always be a losing battle. In this case deciding not to take any extra fuel whenever possible is pretty much useless as well as it doesn't increase the profitability of that flight/company anyway. A bit black and white but you get the point, other considerations left aside.

They haven't mentioned the fact that many passengers, if not most, transfer onto other Gulf Air flights. So it's vital to get the right yield in order not to loose money from carrying one pax on two flights.

Surely the people deciding the prices know what to ask for and it's not being controlled by external influences. (Ie goverment etc) Nowadays most revenue in the business comes from 'other services' and not the ticket fare by itself. If that's where Gulf Air is lacking it needs to be adresses quickly.

The unionist also confirmed that plans were underway to slash popular routes because they were not cost-effective.

"We told the minister that there are some routes that are always full that are going to be cut, so we asked why not just increase the price on these routes," stressed Mr Mahdi.

Cutting popular routes means you will take a hit twice and when people go elsewhere it's damn hard to get them back, especially with the regions competions where Gulf Air is now only a minimal player. It's a bit like my previous airline that in all their wisdom decided to sell all their a/c spare parts they had in stock because someone calculated it was cheaper to buy when needed. Not long after the items were sold this prooved flawed (obviously) and they had to buy (their own) spares back at three times the price they sold them for. Someone made a nice profit on them and it wasn't the airline...

[buba]

Regarding spare parts.. Well that happened here aswel.. Lol. The JH era.

[Landflap]

Mr Mahdi showing lack of economic reasoning. Increasing prices on popular routes will drive away customers faster than Louis Hamilton at the reins ! Axing routes with low customer interest is a good move in the current climate. Buba, were the routes you mentioned popular ? JH did the right things at that time. Liquidating & making the books look good was a reasonable move. Hedging fuel prices ws brilliant but he was not allowed to do so. Cutting costs was a prime motivator but when prevented to do so by the corrupt, he started to give up ! Oh & on the severance issue; expats were never offered a package. Everyone would have left if they had ! No, again, it was for locals only & the smart ones did the math, left & now run successful small businesses up & down the King Faisal highway !

Same old. Inept management.Corruption still rife. Because of "wasta", wrong people in the best jobs.

[buba]

Definately kabul was not popular with the pilots.. Lol.
Anyways rarely was the load anywhere near 60% on those flights on average. Given the frequency, pax load and insurance.. It makes sense to bin them.
Ps... 'makin the books look good'.. In my book is just as good as tax evasion, in the end it will bite yo ass. grounding birds cause can't get the parts we needed when needed was no fun either,spent many a nights on the tarmac waiting for parts that did'nt materialise. But aint here to drag out the past.

[40&80]

The generous Bahrain pension scheme for locals after 20 years work (as explained to me and if correct)... I feel will eventually bankrupt the country and has already done much economic and financial damage to Gulf Air.
I was told that after 20years work which puts the first fully sponsored 1970 G.F. national pilots at around age 43...it is necessary for them at this young age and at the hight of their considerable skills to resign to trigger payments of their pension.
Thus being smart... these GF fully sponsored pilots now need to resign at age 43ish get their Bahrain pension... and they soon... seek further employment and a further pension... working for ..say EK..Bahrain Air..Air Arabia...SIA etc. etc.
It does seem ludicrous that the Bahrain government which now appears to be concerned at last about Gulf Air profitability... actually sits still... and allows.. these skills it has payed through the nose for its National pilots and also Expat. training to be used against them by their competitors. I just cannot figure out why they allow this constant drain.
When the Australian government was faced with this problem of its retired at 55years old pilots in its National airline going to SIA ready trained on B747 aircraft for 5 years retirement flying on salary plus previous pension... and also using their skills for a competitor.... they reacted... I am told by canceling their pensions until they were properly retired or not working for their competitors as pilots.
Fortunately... this opened up the doors in SIA for many Gulf Air expat.pilots and also fully trained but now retired Gulf National pilots.
The loss of Gulf National pilots and Expat. pilots before retirement age 60 or 65 by Gulf Air has cost Gulf Air millions and cost many more millions as these pilots now actively fly against them for the competition.
I hardly think SIA EK and all the airlines within 1000miles of Bahrain can believe their luck.... having an endless stream of pilots,engineers,and cabin crew fully trained by Gulf Air available to hire.

[John21UK]

Wow, retiring after only 20 years of 'productivity'! My dad for instance has been going for 46 years already and has got another 7 to go before retiring. IF they don't extend the retirement age again. They would have a right old fit here, that's already a 2 person productivity rolled in one and not even there yet.

What's also not helping is that lots of local people don't bother paying debts, be it water/elec/land/mortgages etc. This is how it was explained to me. After 10 or 20 years the debt is so humongus and obviously its never going to be collected. There seems to be now law stipulating you have to repay. Then the king wipes all those debts and the money is never collected and thus never reaches the goverment depriving the country of income. Again, this is how it was explained to me and could be totally b*s. Anyway I am sidetracking now, back to Gulf Air...

[ironbutt57]

40&80, those laws governing pension payments have been changed, several who took their GOSI then went to other GCC carriers found out to their disappointment,

[buba]

Yeah them laws have changed. But i bet my bottom dollar none on this forum, maself included,would mind to find themselves on a pension and a well payed job. Bet most 9 to 5ivers.. Also wished they had a house in amwaj, a fancy car and a boat to boot. Catch ma drift ya'all. C'est la vie bwana.

[ironbutt57]

That would be nice Buba:ok:

[buba]

Hell yeah IB..

[newscaster]

Two of their most interesting stations Kabul and Juba are going or gone, amongst other route cuts.

[John21UK]

Gulf Air did not operate to Juba did they? It was announced last year but you know how these things go... ;-)

[GF02]

It has been decided to close two more destinations- Copenhagen and Rome. These destinations are no longer commercially viable and it has become necessary to close these routes to stop incurring further losses. The last dates of operations are; Copenhagen 04 February 2013 and Rome 21 January 2013.

[buba]

Latest figures i've heard ..19 320 and 8 330.

[John21UK]

So that would mean letting go of;
- 2x Embreaer
- 2x A319
- 1x A320
- 2x A330
- 4x A340

Were there any deliveries schedueled for 2013 before all this restructuring?

[LNAV VNAV -]

what about 321?

[John21UK]

Two A321's arrive in January. The have been ready for a while and awaiting delivery. Any idea why the delivery was postponed till january?

[EK2EYengineer]

Money Money and Money

[buba]

Yeah.Aircraft may get parked as early as end of jan.

[John21UK]

Embraers end of JAN.
A319's end of DEC
A320 ?
A330's ?
A340's :ok:

I thought they delayed those A321's for some fiscal tric.

[767]

merry x mas to everyone

[Atebis]

Gulf Daily News » Local News » BD664 million Gulf Air bailout request is rejected (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=344375)

[Apache702]

.....no Christmas gift to Gulfair :uhoh:

[BLSA]

Are the EMB guys leaving?:confused:

Heard CMB and DAC are next on the list:rolleyes:

[buba]

It was in the rag today.. Quoted from 'sources'... Ktm, dac and cmb mayb nxt

Ps.. Did a little research, call it curiosity. Used a net based travel site (expedia.com) to see how gf fares compare to other carriers in the region. Gf was not the cheapest, so i reckon all that carry on about it losing money cause of low tkt prices is bull. The tkts from europe to points east of bah wer just a few dollars cheaper than EK.

[ironbutt57]

Ktm, dac and cmb

Yah why not?? 3 cities that are chock-blocka full most of the time...:rolleyes:

[MaffiFaloos]

I believe the problem is relatively straight foreword. GF's cost base is way way too high, as a consequence the revenue required from sales is far in excess of our competitors. We employ enough office staff, managers and the like for an airline 3-4+ times our size. Matters of criminality only add dramatically to the problems. This coupled with staggering levels of gross incompetence produces dramatic losses, and so the cycle continues. Chopping the airline up peace meal will be in vain. The losses will continue as before until the ultimate powers that be recognise the facts as are, remove themselves from the running of GF, appoint a board of independent individuals with proven backgrounds and allow them and any new CEO to act as the business dictates without interference.....regrettably politics and inter-tribal feuding will not allow this to happen. GF will continue to be a battle ground used as a pawn for this faction or the other ultimately depriving ALL of jobs and Bahrain of an ESSENTIAL resource. Good luck to all, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year :ugh:

[Panama Jack]

Pink Slips were being handed out today in the Operations Department of HDQ in the afternoon. Know of one expat admin staff who was given a half hour to clear up their things and leave the building.

[buba]

Heard therz an initial list of in excess of 600 employees that might be sent on their 'merry way'. From what i can gather there will be redundancies in locals aswel as ther was an article in a rag regarding the GTU makin a fuss over the local layoff. Total figures mayb over a thousand across the board.

[Spirit of st. Louis]

And the world watches as Gulf Air commits suicide....:uhoh:

[Landflap]

IB, your post 4780. With respect, it is not about full loads. It is about getting the price right. Before I joined GF, I was working for a UK charter company & on pressing commercial, just before the Gulf war, I was told that we were making a profit of £1 per head on some Far East routes !That was based on a FULL load. The routes that you mention are "Eastern Labour Routes" where you will never be able to charge a max Revenue ticket price. You will, however, fill the aeroplane everytime. JH got it right with GF TRaveller where he cut out Business & First & concentrated on filling up with with Asian Labourers. Price was right. Other factors conspired to make the operation fail.

And Buba, the pink bit of paper & have your Work & Res Visa pulled with immediate effect is a classic GF thank you gift !

All of this terribly sad. 2013 is not going to be great for many of my dear colleagues. My hope is that out of the ashes, the phoenix will rise. Well, that's what I say to all the girls. Seasonal good wishes. Churlish, I know, but heartfelt.

[ironbutt57]

With respect, it is not about full loads.

You are absolutely correct, however the knock-on effect of cancelling these particular routes could be devastating..remember these people are travelling from other GF cities, and connecting to home, the cost structure needs to be re-aligned to allow the fares to be profitable, all Gulf-based airlines serve the same markets, so adjusting the fares is out of the question, once one leaves the market, it is immediately swamped by the remaining carriers who can "afford" to operate those sectors...loyal passengers are few and far between here, it's all about connection, if you don't have them, you lose...

[buba]

Find it a wee bit bizzare the sectors being canned are the short/meduim haul to the contrary to what we been hearing a few months ago that its mnl/bkk/cdg/fra that might be suspended.

[Panama Jack]

From the sound of things, not a happy Thursday morning at the Pink Palace.

More people getting unhappy news this morning, including the current Embraer fleet pilots who have been notified that they are being let go.

Come Sunday, some Bahrainis will start getting bad news.

[slowjet]

IB, agreed. This being a "Pilots" forum, isn't it a great shame that we are not listened to more ? I missed the 'connection' part of the problem. Hubs & Feeders are all part of the issue which make the fare pricing rather diificult o get right. From other posts, no matter what we say or offer as solutions, GF looks like it is heading for unhappy personnel issues. Sadly, I have to say, I think that they are, finally getting to grips. An overstaffed company has to shed the weight. Hope GF are fair in doing so. That is the bit I doubt and will cause immense pain & suffering.

[ironbutt57]

More people getting unhappy news this morning, including the current Embraer fleet pilots who have been notified that they are being let go.

Not an appropriate thing to be blabbing all over a public forum is it??:ugh:

[AeroForce]

Not an appropriate thing to be blabbing all over a public forum is it??:ugh:

I agree, but why highlight it then. :rolleyes:

[ironbutt57]

Couldn't get the "quote" thingy to work:uhoh:

[DesertHawk]

for all those who didn't think it was obvious before, it is now. the downhill slide is in full swing. :ok:

[Landflap]

Understandably, getting a bit fraught. IB is asked why he highlit something but responds by saying that he could not find the "quote thingy". So, he meant to highlight anyway (?). Aeroforce, this is a public RUMOURS & NEWS network for professional pilots and ANY info fitting that description has every right to be published here. Would you edit everything other than the good ? Place for you on the Board of IB(not Ironbutts but the owners of the PPrune Network Site who have agreed to be bullied into banning ALL discussion of a certain ME airline). Let's hear it all, good or bad but I agree with the owners, just be careful who you directly accuse of all sorts of nasties !

Slowjet, I agree with you & IB too. Pricing is an artform & I also missed the feeder & hub content of the problem. But, you seem to apologise to IB on my behalf. Thanks. We all need a deep breath & , as we say in London, a cuppa rosy !

I just posted , somewhere else, why are there TWO threads talking about the same thing; GF developments, embracing all...I think . I will not lose focus, I will not lose focus, I will not lose focus !

An Embraer pilot tells us he has not been given his marching orders. Have any others ? Are they expats ? Are they Locals ?

Aeroforce, do you see? By airing all this, we, on the outside, can get a view of what is going on & make employment decisions or even advise others as PJ heartfully, did.

[John21UK]

Like I said on the other Gulf Air thread: let's keep the info in this one and stop posting in the other. All pilots on Embraer are currently expat except for one. There was a local captain as well but he got transferred back to Airbus yesterday. As for the others, no word yet and acc to management it will take another two weeks. It was specifically stated that IF there are redundancies the Embraer pilots will go first...as they don't have to repect the seniority list...:ugh:

[BLSA]

Johny, it is not about seniority this time, it is about the rating. EMB pilots came here on 2yrs contracts, does their contract state that they will be transferred to Airbus fleet:rolleyes: Why now they need to sack people with ratings, even junior, and spend MONEY to give the Airbus ratings?:rolleyes: But you never know, this is GF:}

[Mephistopheles]

A serious question now: The airline is falling to pieces but regardless we ,at the sharp end must continue to do our jobs. But horror stories are emerging of people flying around with gear down up to 10000, circuits at 300 feet, getting lost in DXB. Don't get me wrong we all know the fault is at our management's feet but this is getting ridiculous. I never was 1 for a clean out in ops but I'm sorry they have all failed & it's time for them to be shown the door. I have never seen the standards in this once great airline drop so low-heads have to roll----basically OPS management have lost it & it's just a matter of time before there's a disaster. Time for Bahrain CAA to step in & do their job & stop the rot. Until then my famiy do not fly with GF. Proper management is due. Enough.

[Mephistopheles]

Sadly awaiting a catastrophe here due to gross oversight by ALL Gulf Air management. We can't afford another GFA072. Time for the kids playing manager to leave the office & replacements found.

[Botata]

Blsa - the fact is that the embraer pilots contract will finish by the end of this year. We were also told by the managment - (today is our acting CEO) that we would be transferred on the airbus or c-series if delivered.

It seem gulf air and Qatar just won and will be operating in Saudi Arabia now doing domestic flight - maybe this is our lifeline.
Gulf Air, Qatar Airways Win Saudi Domestic-Route Licenses - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-28/gulf-air-qatar-airways-win-saudi-aviation-license-bid.html)

[DesertHawk]

i wouldn't put most of the blame for those issues on the fleet office. I would say our training department has been on a consistent slide for some years now, starting form the top when CR left. These issues have been discussed before and will only get worse with the departure of senior expat trainers.

[buba]

Commercial used to come up with ridiculous demands.. Increase in flights, stations etc etc without lookin at crewing requirements, putting pressure on the operation side wich just past it onto planning and the end result is a considerable shafting. The whole system is at fault

[Panama Jack]

Look,

Here is the where I come down on this one. I personally know people who were made redundant earlier this week and also was posting what I had heard from people who I consider reliable. It is hard for them, will be hard to see friends leave Bahrain, and even I don't know what my long-term security is in this airline.

I wonder about people who get upset with rumours they read on a website which describes itself as a "rumour forum." If you want "official news", read Hello Gulf Air, or wait for the next pilot meeting, memo, or e-mail.

I left this forum a few years ago because I couldn't waste my time reading the bilge the usual suspects did. A few days ago I posted information which I considered accuate and of interest. More importantly, the intention was to be helpful. That is why I posted links to two companies nearby which are looking for Embraer pilots.

Whatever happens at Gulf Air on the weeks and months ahead, I hope that everybody ends up on their own two feet and I think that other companies will be happy to end up with the quality people we have here. Having been through a situation like this myself, I know it is stressful and I always appreciated knowing what was known at the time and what my options were.

Instead I have gotten some emotional and slightly nasty PM's, apparently from colleagues who are distressed by what I wrote. I reget causing that distress, it certainly is not my intent.

I think I will be taking an indefinate break from this forum. These are difficult times at Gulf Air and I hope everybody prospers.

Ma'a salaama.

[Gordomac]

Panama Jack. A sad loss loss if you really decide to stop posting. Do not listen to those who, probably have an agenda. Look back over the pages & note that you have support. This IS a rumours & news network for professional pilots. The "rumours" might be disturbing but there is never smoke without fire. Keep posting & keep offering great support. Please.

[John21UK]

But horror stories are emerging of people flying around with gear down up to 10000, circuits at 300 feet, getting lost in DXB.

Please don't tell me this is true. I speak for what I see and do in the Embraer. Everyone is trying to be super efficient, ie; flightplan fuel as much as possible, efficient this that and the other, single pack on the ground to reduce APU fuel burn, thrust idle descents, visual approaches to cut fuel and time, asking for shortcuts and optimum levels.

Anyway, if it doesn't help annyone's case, it fun for sure. And I can use a bit of fun in these dark times...

[buba]

You wanna hear more horror stories.. Get an insiders guide to a few of the competitors incidents..fast expanding airlines are pushed to lower their minimum experience requirements to crew flights, but incidents are all very hush hush.
On a brighter note i hear both GF & QR secured the saudi contract to the contrary of what the GDN said, but only an official statement would confirm.

[EK2EYengineer]

Gulf Air, Qatar Airways Win Saudi Domestic-Route Licenses


By Deema Almashabi - Dec 28, 2012 5:35 PM GMT+0300Gulf Air and Qatar Airways (http://topics.bloomberg.com/qatar-airways/) have been awarded licenses to operate domestic and international flights in Saudi Arabia, the kingdom’s General Authority of Civil Aviation, or GACA, said in an e-mailed statement today.
The two airlines were among 14 who applied for the license.

[AeroForce]

Buba, front page of GDN also confirms: Saudi licence for Gulf Air
riYaDh: Saudi Arabia’s General Authority for Civil Aviation (GACA) has awarded carrier licences to Gulf Air and Qatar Airways – the first foreign airlines to win such a licence in the kingdom, the Saudi state news agency SPA reported yesterday. The licence, which 14 companies had applied for, is to operate both local and international flights, GACA has previously said. Until now only the national carrier Saudi Airlines and budget airline National Air Services have serviced a domestic market of around 27 million people.

However, having to compete on those with QR is bad news.

@ Landflap, think it is a bit premature to post that the Embraer guys have had their marching orders if even the most junior Emb pilot hasn't heard anything from GF yet. There are rumours and there is scaremongering! Lets try to stay professional here.

[buba]

Finaly the GDN got the facts right, they had an article a couple of weeks ago saying otherwise. Well hopefully GF gets its house in order, somehow i feel this time round they'r a bit more serious about gettin things done... Well hopefully lol.

[mutt]

It will be interesting to see how they plan to level the playing field for the newcomers in the Saudi domestic market. There are very few routes that are suitable for the A320 and with a fare structure that is about 10 years old, its questionable if these routes will be viable?

They could allow open fare structures, but that will have an impact on the countries inflation.

Neither Jeddah nor Riyadh have the required ramp/gate space for any major influx of GF/QR planes.

This will be fun to watch :)

Mutt

[EK2EYengineer]

To begin with one 330 is grounded and 3 more will be grounded in the coming week

[John21UK]

3 more A330's or in general 3 more aircraft? Engineering is saying the same thing about the Embraers but instead they keep flying in Jan and maybe even Feb

Why on earth would you park the Embraers when the routes they operate are not affacted by this downsizing and those routes are not financially viable if the Airbus operates them? The only argument I keep hearing is high maintenance cost. That wouldn't be so high if you had a bigger fleet of them. Anyway, that's a different discussion...

[buba]

Therz rumours that 2 330s are on their way in march 2013. Wonder if all the 330 orders got converted to 320, if not, did they mange to get out of the purchase. Anyways them 320s we have now are all leased i'v been told. It might look like 19 320, 6 330 on the short term 'plan'.

On a different note, a few departments have been shutdown.. The useless cabin appearance department one of them and existing departments to be reduced in size.

Also heard 320 back to 5 crew, 330 10 crew.

[dzmeigolem]

Maybe I'm stupid, but whith the Saudi rights for international flights I think we need more aircraft. Reducing fleet now, with a Christmas gift like this one, is ridiculous. We need airplanes and pilots :E Don't ya think

[John21UK]

Exactly and do it asap before QR sweeps in. Now is the time to make money and get a solid show up and running with loyal customers.

It should be all hands in deck and use all available assets.

[Botata]

Well what about the C Series?

Our last pilot meeting with Majali - he told us that we gulf air is going to be the launching customer for bombardier in the middle east. He was very assuring with his answers... He also told us about the renegotiations with airbus in which the A320 replacing the A330 hence it was confirmed a few weeks ago.

Grounding the A330 - It will be very interesting to see the big local boys flying the A320 instead of the A330... Personally I can't see it happening - it will be like a storm in a tea cup. Maybe grounded in Bahrain and then used in Saudi Arabia...

Well let's wait a few more days!!! :confused:

[mutt]

It appears that the license was issued to Gulf Air and Partners...... so who are these partners? Will you actually see present GF assets assigned to Saudi routes, or a new low cost based airline established based in Saudi?

Mutt

[Cold Zero]

It will take up to 6 months to start operating in SA
Grounding the A330 has nothing to do with SA license...

[ALFOPROF]

Hi guys after few years in this company i'm disappointed to see what's going on and the change of attitude regarding expat. We are no more wellcome in this country. Art direction is clear. Time to eject.

[ALFOPROF]

Happy last year in GF.
Happy new year!

[Che Guevara]

Interesting comment, do you think if this is the case, it's a Bahrain thing or a Gulf Air thing? Do you feel this at work or at play?

I am genuinely interested in what other expats are feeling right now. Anger, frustration, disappointment, relief etc.

Cheers, and yes, hope we all have good year ahead.

One last thought...if the rumoured changes do occur, there will be nobody to blame anymore i.e. Hogan's fault, Majali's etc. Interesting times for sure. Good Luck all.

[boiler]

It appears that the license was issued to Gulf Air and Partners...... so who are these partners?

For Gulf Air, i am told it is the Qahtani group. Gulf Air is merely an 'adviser' since the group has money but no experience in the aviation business.
Given the fare structure and capping that is implemented, the venture is sure to be a loss maker unless the can open up international routes fast. The fact that Qatar is also involved could mean that they will have much more resources and probably introduce lower the fares to the international markets and this will get the Gf and Qahtani group out of the market fast as I doubt they can take the losses.

[Botata]

Well my question is ... Are gulf air going to run the show ie Wet lease in Saudi Arabia?

I am told that next week the decision about downsizing and making expat pilots redundant is going to take place...

My moral is so low - I hope gulf air management will sort this issue ASAP. I have a family here... It takes time to sort out my future - and unfortunately I have to drag my family with it.

[buba]

Heard therz a board/management meeting supposedly tomorow.

[OneMonth]

Believe the board management meeting will be on 06 Jan, after that GF staff should know the exact fleet that will be maintained...heard min will be 24 and max will be 28.

The youngest A330 is already on ground, 2 more will follows at end of this month latest. EMB and A319 will be grounded by 21 Jan as heard.. and we know that GF is not keeping A340.

Hope management can come out with their decision ASAP so GF staff can make their plan as required.

[LNAV VNAV -]

Well, won't the Saudi thing affect this decision?? These numbers were heard before the announcement by GACA! :confused:

[Botata]

Minimum of 24 aircrafts - according to Majali and our COO during the last pilot meeting they assured us that no pilots will be made redundant if that is to happen - actually they were hiring pilots....

If so how many pilots will be made redundant with a minimum of 24 aircrafts?

[millerscourt]

GF not keeping the A340 so no chance Gordo returning then:{

[ironbutt57]

Hahaha...Gordo was 'Bus by default, he's really a 767 dude at heart:ok:

[buba]

Yeah that airbus lingo is a tongue twister.. Lost in translation. Gordo is better off hav his jack'n coke in the med in them cheetah prints of his.lol

[ironbutt57]

HAHAHAHAHAHA cheetah prints....love it
:}

[buba]

Yeah, they wer always dryin outside the room in yabodhabi gulf hotel..lol

[dzmeigolem]

Sooo, VRS's for locals and GCC nationals.

[Gordomac]

I will stay on thread to show all readers just why GF must not be allowed to sink. People are the heart of this great company.Best bunch of professionals I ever worked with and the sort of humour just displayed made working life a pleasure. Thanks IB, I have Mr Boeing underpants & miss the 767 dreadfully. Bus you can keep.Habib screaming at me "insert, insert ! Press it, press it !" First time I ever saw even him laugh was when I retorted"Gees, Habib, you sound like a porno movie". Only group of talented guys I know of who took a 30 year old Boeing Dude & got him to understand the diff between FMC & FMCG. Or was it DMC, FDC,FMGC, GCE...................ah, off for a KFC ! Cheetah prints or pants ? Pants with prints maybe. If seen outside my door in Abu it meant I was inside ! Bit like the Union jack over Buck Pal ! Oh, talkin about Jack.................! Thanks guys, made this old crow start today with a smile.

[ironbutt57]

Have a good one Gordo.....:ok:

[millerscourt]

Rumour has it that Gordo has gone off the JD and Coke and if so clearly not the man he once was:D

[LNAV VNAV -]

So, anyone knows if the meeting took place??

[mauro delpiero]

Been hearing double daily BKK, MNL and dual rated pilots to now do a lot more night stops on the 330 because of the increased 330 night stops and less night stops on the 320. At least that's what I've been hearing.

[LNAV VNAV -]

You must be talking about a different meeting. I was refering to the Board meeting that was supposed to be held yesterday to decide our bleak fate! :{:{

[Atebis]

There goes CMB, KTM, and DAC. So,... In a period of only 18 days or so, they have announced a closure of 8 stations...wow.

[BLSA]

"Meanwhile, let us continue operating to the highest standards and ensure we remain the region’s most family and business friendly airline.":}:}:ok:

[ironbutt57]

so all of the Bengali, Nepalese, and Sri Lankan folks that board at other GF cities to continue to their homeland, will now leave us as well.....so more reduced loads on other sectors as well....any airline is a house of cards, pull the bottom ones and the whole thing collapses

[buba]

And nothing solid regarding manpower

[BLSA]

Maybe we are planing to seize over SA market???:}

[Botata]

Closure of morr routes - whilst no plan what's happening with us... And then he's got the cheek to tell us to be safe :mad:

[DesertHawk]

this is what happens when a bunch of qualified intelligent people make decisions. let us all think...only took 60 years to learn how to totally ruin an airline!

[EK2EYengineer]

Engineering will be losing total of 150 engineers all across the network that is a final figure so far

[Basset hound]

I imagine the other carriers in the region will happily absorb those Engineers. :cool:

[Airmann]

Haven't the "other" carriers already absorbed almost everything that was once Gulf Air's?

[buba]

Was chatting to a guy from sales department, says the yeild from dac,cmb,ktm was'nt good.

[mutt]

Qatar Airways started their first new route into Saudi today, they will operate 4 times a week to Gassim. It didnt take them long to react, now what about GF?

Mutt

[BLSA]

For QR it was planned long time ago... so nothing to do with the license won recently:rolleyes:
Qatar Airways sets stage for Qassim flights | ArabNews (http://www.arabnews.com/qatar-airways-sets-stage-qassim-flights)

[Che Guevara]

I fear that this once great airline shall soon relegated to the annals of History, for this shall be a major 'loss of face', with nobody else left to blame but their own.

[Atebis]

Gulf Daily News » Local News » Row over airline plan to slash 800 jobs (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=345148)

[Airmann]

The QR Qassim flights have nothing to do with the new license, these flights are to/from Doha. GF had actually planned to operate to Qassim and a few other minor Saudi cities a few years ago but never launched the route. The new license is for domestic routes inside Saudi and I believe international routes from Saudi to other international destinations not in the carriers home country.

[buba]

Heard the 340 gettin prepped for dry lease.
Also heard FTL will change due to an audit by bah CAA.

[fly66]

wet or dry??????

[buba]

Heard dry.

[BLSA]

Any news on how many aircrafts will remain???:rolleyes:

[rumrunner69]

one... it will keep doing touch and goes at BAH to make it look like we fly somewhere

[BLSA]

They need to axe only one destination to cut the losses, and that destination is BAH:E

[John21UK]

The final decision is 26 aircraft. All Embraer pilots have been given their notice to leave. There will be redundancies on the Airbus as well, although minor.

I've met some great crews/people here and I wish those remaining all the best, either at Gulf Air or any future endeavours. It's been incredibly stressfull and difficult the past months but we've got to move on and look forward.

I swore to stop posting here to reduce stress and anger management issues (lol) but I'll finish with a "Massalama to you all..." :(

[ferris]

Bon Chance, "John21Uk". I hope that one day you can look back on this and see it as a positive step ie. I hope you land on your feet.

[flame_bringer]

I'm very saddened for you john and its a great loss to gulf air to lose a loyal guy like you.
I wish you the best luck in where ever you wind up.
We'll miss your posts here.

[Landflap]

Well, no need to stop posting. Hope you will now be loyal to your Licencing Authority & not what is painted on the side of an aeroplane or what might be tatooed on you're rear end ! John, you are a "Commercial Pilot". You do what you do for money in a cut-throat commercial world. Of course you will re-establish yourself quickly & any employer should be glad to have you on team. If I was hiring, I would have you tomorrow. But, I would tell you to enjoy your flying, if in the LHS, at the end of a trip, sign the tech-log & go home. That's it. All the very best to a worthy debater, worthy ,if at times, naive poster and a worthy professional pilot with an exciting future ahead.

[mutt]

I'm really sorry to hear that news. These might interest some people...

https://krb-sjobs.brassring.com/1033/ASP/TG/cim_jobdetail.asp?partnerid=25270&siteid=5398&AReq=6059BR&Codes=ASC-W-HomePage

Careers (http://www.saudiairlines.com/portal/site/saudiairlines/menuitem.d9a467d070ca6c65173ff63dc8f034a0/?vgnextoid=131b8a09951c4110VgnVCM10000015e25558RCRD)

Depending on present arrangements for kids schooling / housing etc, this might be considered as commuting jobs

Sorry, 21, SVA only seeking Captains.

Good Luck.

[dzmeigolem]

John, I'm really sorry to hear that, buddy... My impression is that you are a smart and loyal guy, but what I really like is the way you say "bye" - with dignity and good manners. I'm sure you'll be fine after this storm passes, cause you seem to be a good man! And at the end of the day this is the most important thing. I wish you and the rest of the guys good luck.

[brassplate]

well well well. it finally comes back to haunt them. after years and years of looting, lining pockets, nepotism, downright corrupt practice after corrupt practice. the falcon has fallen. thank you to the corrupt s-o-bs for ruining many lives, including your own fellow countrymen's lives. @ssholes.

[Panama Jack]

Dear John21UK

i don't know how I could rephrase in a better way what ferris, flame_bringer, Landflap, and dzmeigloem have said.

You have been valued and respected poster on this forum, and well regarded by your colleagues at Gulf Air. You will be missed here.

I hope that you will achieve all that you strive for, both in the field of aviation and your personal life, and that our paths will cross again in this small world of aviation professionals.

Ma'a salama.
PJ

[T O G A Boy]

It is extremely sad and tragic with the future of Gulf Air. Once a respectable and most wanted to be in airline, is sinking more rapidly than one can think. Vast amount of managers of no competence nor airline experience or skills are running the show. It was enevitable the outcome of this once glorious airline.
Now with Kathmandu, Colombo and Dhaka on the list of demise, I wonder how big the losses will be as Qatar, Emirates and Etihad will snatch the slots made vacant by this Stupid airline which can think only for a day in advance only, if that. Wonder if the term FORDEC ever applied to the management :ugh:
Time to " mitigate " as they proudly mention, and seek greener pastures.

[EK2EYengineer]

"this Stupid airline which can think only for a day in advance only"

I totally disagree withT O G A Boy as this airline does not think at all

[buba]

Think only 2 of the 340s gettin leased as engines have been salvaged from the other two

[EK2EYengineer]

nothing is going for lease all are going to bone yard they are in preparation for once off flight to the gallows

[BLSA]

LJ went to CMB couple of days ago. A check??? what after?:rolleyes:

[buba]

Been told by a chap in ops.. It has corrosion

[brassplate]

corrosion? sounds awfully like the same excuse they used to selling the only profit making 767 fleet.

[MikeAlpha7]

I had a casual talk with one of the GF Directors the other day. I was shocked by the state of denials he was in. He claimed that with the new board and government support, GF is firmly on the recovery course! When I challenged him on the route closures, downsizing , debts, losses , competetions from the big boyz etc.. he still maintaned that all those issues were negligible and happened in the past , GF will be stronger and on the road to full recovery !

Now, this is a guy who is highly educated with honor degree and has not reached his post in GF as a result of nepotism or being a member of the family , but because of merit. If a person in his class and education has this sort of mentality and living in denial , than what are the chances ?

[Albergineman]

MA7, he is right...

... and Bahrain is the center of the universe!

:ugh:

[T O G A Boy]

Mike Alpha, this is normal. Being in a state of denial is the pinnacle of the state that the management are in.:mad::mad: They are ignoring all the relevant facts as long as their wallets are getting fatter and their GOSI payments after they leave, are recieved. Who in their right minds would decide on closing lucrative routes that generate cargo loads and feeder passengers to other stations.
Well done GF management. Simply well done:D:D

[Botata]

Now this fabulous company are organising a meeting... Basically everybody is going to suffer because of their past stupid decisions. All I know is that my job is gone and they are keeping theirs.


I want to say thank you to all the crew I flown with. It was an amazing experience. I will miss it!!

[dacorana]

Gulf Air announces new growth strategy (http://www.tradearabia.com/news/TTN_229044.html)

[Albergineman]

How many times I've read this:

"... the executive restructuring committee and the Gulf Air management have been working on a balanced restructuring strategy that will take the airline on a path towards sustainability and support the future economic development of Bahrain."

It's a typical bloody copy-paste stuff!!!!!!

:ugh:

[Calmcavok]

I put the article through Google translate and this is what it came up with:


Minions!

As you all know, following the appointment of another Board of Directors in November last year, led by H.E. Shaikh Khalid bin Abdulla Al Khalifa, Deputy Prime Minister, the Executive Corruption Committee and the Gulf Air management stooges have been creating another seemingly bizarre restructuring strategy that will take our airline on a path towards complete destruction and ensure a future economic drain on the money left in Bahrain.

I am now pleased to announce that the strategy has been finalised following a quick brain storming session in Costa last Thursday. We managed to finish before 11am, so we could all enjoy a fulsome weekend.

The strategy aims at weakening our national carrier’s core services by reducing our fleet and network, increasing losses, reducing revenue, ensuring cost increases, making up a new organisational structure (this will be complicated so we've postponed it) and re-engineering our internal processes to flummox our employees and put our airline into its final spiral dive as a national carrier. This will serve to line the pockets of the great and good while ensuring the customers and employees remain in a permanent state of confusion regarding the future. At least until we can take early retirement.

Below is the outline of the strategy;

A much reduced Network to lose more customers.

We will focus on our Middle East and North Africa (MENA) operations to ensure that our customers cannot connect to virtually anywhere. Consequently, we will reduce our operations from 40 to 32 destinations; however, we will continue to maintain our leadership position in the Middle East by operating the only "sinking dhow" of a company.

The reduction of the network will allow us to park much of our fleet and waste resources as efficiently as possible in MENA markets by moving away from transit traffic and concentrating on low-demand but high yield point-to-point routes to connect the few Bahraini businesses remaining with the few regional markets remaining. Somebody suggested that connections maketh the network carrier, so we fired them for being insubordinate.

A Simplified, Modern fleet
As we reduce our network, our fleet size also will be reduced to meet the almost non-existent network and flight schedule. We will be operating a small mix of wide and narrow body aircraft with one of the youngest fleets in the region (4.8 years), to match the average age of our new cadet second officers.

A wrong-sized Workforce
Our workforce requirement will be mostly fired, to meet the operational, maintenance and administrative needs of the decimated fleet and network. Wrong-sizing of workforce will be implemented across all levels of the organization and will be done on a random and scatter-gun basis weighed up against what the elected, but commercially daft, politicians are demanding. Priority will be on retaining the most productive employees with focus on maintaining key talent (hahahaha, gotcha! No it won't).

A Financially Weaker Airline
The restructuring plan will result in cost increases of 124% by the end of January. In addition, other strategic initiatives that have been plucked out of fresh air will further increase costs and screw the financial results in 2014 and beyond. Our Revenue per Available Seat Kilometre (ASK) will reduce 19% in February by firing most of the revenue management and sales staff, random frequency adjustments and lots of route cancellations.

We have also developed an employees’ portal at MyGulfAir that includes a rarely updated news feed, a ‘frequently asked question’ that will be possibly updated only once to clarify none of your queries and an interactive forum for you to shrug your cyber shoulders, discuss where to sleep at night and raise merry hell about the current shambles. The portal will be accessible to all staff from Thursday the 17 January 2013 at 2330 to Friday the 18 January 2013 at 0010. The employee portal link wont't be shared with you, if you guess it, well done, you get an extra day of redundancy payment.

Let us commit ourselves to the local psychiatric hospital as this strategy is doomed to failure and repeated banging of our heads against the pink walls will cause us further brain injuries.

Maher Salman Al Musallam
Acting Chief Executive Officer

[avi1962]

Calmcavok, that was good - do you work in comms?!

Figure I should start lending my voice to this forum... I'm staying focused and optimistic, inshalla only good things. :hmm:

[Landflap]

Fantastic post. Extremely funny & spilled me coffee three times ! Leaves a sad taste in the mouth though. Not the coffee but the post. I think it is called 'tragi-comedy', or something like that. Sad but true. Never a truer word spoken in jest.

[Mephistopheles]

Well I've heard of poor cabin crew & fellow flight deck not having their contracts renewed or being given their notice period but will any of the senior management & board memebers that shoulder most of the responsibility for the situation GF finds itself in ever be held accountable???
Until that day no amount of restucturing strategy will change anything in GF. The big shots that have been raping the company & filling their pockets need to be named & shamed then kicked to the kerb. Firing the people that make the little revenue that GF gets is nothing but commercial suicide & it plainly a tactic in order for the senior management to hang onto their chairs for a little while longer.

[T O G A Boy]

Great post, CalmCavok....:D

Spot on Mephistopheles....Thats exactly whats happening and has been for a very long time. When Hogan arrived, he had a strategy plan based on "3 years recovery" :rolleyes:..
Along came Nuff Nuff and said the same " 3 years recovery".
Followed by Majali who repeated the same " 3 years recovery "
And now AGAIN these new management and board of directors have come up with the " 3 year recovery plan crap"..
When are they going to wake up AND REALISE that it has been at least 10 years with their recovery crap and this airline is slipping into a fatal coma. Time to kick those useless, ignorant,self centred management guys OUT and that should pave the way to a " 3 Year Recovery Plan"

[LNAV VNAV -]

Gulf Air to downsize - Business Traveller (http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/gulf-air-to-downsize)

Read this article. You start reading it and you think it's from today's newspaper. It's not!!

[Calmcavok]

Gulf Air to restructure | TravelWeekly Asia (http://www.travelweeklyweb.com/gulf-air-to-restructure/4793)

And here's one from 2001...

[slowjet]

Yeah & when a mate of mine joined GF in 1993, GDN reported that GF was aiming at 100% Bahrain National Employees within 5 years. He used to take the GDN seriously & started looking for another job !

[40&80]

Yea and when I was a G.F. L1011 F/o in 1977... F/o pilots got a memo informing us that ALL future Captains would be Nationals or ex BA or Cathay retirees.
That memo immediately thinned the future Captain talent ranks....so it was later reversed.
It is called management.
Luckily having little talent myself...all this vastly improved my seniority to the extent by default I was soon required to be rostered as a Captain.
First law in aviation...if you are no good...you better be lucky! :ok:

[wapses]

One of the biggest problems with some Gulf airlines, and GF is probably the best example, is that the company is seen as one of the largest sources of employment by locals. It's our airline and therefore it will provide us with lots of high paying jobs, is the way the local population sees it.

The problem is, and I generalise here, most said locals do not have the same work ethic as others and therefore it takes two or three locals to do the job of one expat. GF was, and probably still is, beset by problems with staff who arrive at the pink palace in the morning, clock in, and then leave the premises to run personal errands, take the kids to school, etc. etc. and return to the office hours later. The expat managers find local staff constantly on their mobiles talking to who knows who about who knows what. The chances of it being about business are fairly remote, but unless the expats speak arabic it's difficult to prevent this happening. It is one of the most overstaffed and poorly managed organisations I have ever seen in a very long time in this business.

The airline will never get onto a secure financial footing until staff are properly managed and made to understand that they either give 100% of their working hours to their employer or they can go find alternative employment.

Not the airline's only problem by a long chalk, but certainly a significant part of what's wrong.

[Mephistopheles]

& the corruption continues...
It's being reported that the Manager Cabin Appearance(a Jordanian lady appointed by the ex-CEO S.M.)received BD60000 for termination of service compensation for working with GF for just 2 years! Not bad since even the most senior locals with +30 years would not get that amount under the voluntary retirement scheme!
Also, our COO N.A S. kindly reinstated 2 young cabin crew members that did not have their contracts renewed due to sickness & performance issues-although they did work hard after hours!
All this whilst decent hard working employees that have loyally worked for the company are facing the ax.
I was told a long time ago that GF only respects thieves, pimps & hookers, unfortunately that appraisal appears to be spot on.