Gulf Air Developments

[T O G A Boy]

sorry to burst your bubble my friend but that word " racism " never existed in my vocabluary.. If you read my post properly, you will know what i meant.

Now regarding foreigners getting laid off. I dont agree with this,

About expats jumping ship, i have seen it happen with my very own eyes, albeit not every expat is the same. Many came to Gulf Air 3 years or so ago, with only propeller rating. They got A330 rating and they only worked for a max period of 12 - 15 months and they literally left. we all know that the bond's period is for 3 years....
Hope I'm more specific this time..

[bus_aviator]

Alright there toga girl, time to put it in full reverse habibi. Don't want to tell you how many have ventured through my country a time or two and then f&%$ed off for better opportunities. Welcome to globalization amigo.
But it's thanks to guys that have your outlook that GF is still in the dark ages.

PS. When you become TOGA MAN someone might have a little interest in hiring you as well,...than I want to see your patriotism.

Lets get back to the real issue, how much does an embraer bond cost nowadays?

[T O G A Boy]

Don't want to tell you how many have ventured through my country a time or two and then f&%$ed off for better opportunities. Welcome to globalization amigo.
But it's thanks to guys that have your outlook that GF is still in the dark ages.

you just answered yourself with a lot of contradictions.

Do you blame any country or company who gives priority to it's citizens.
Globalisation i agree, but not to bite the hand that feeds you.

I DONT NEED ANYBODY'S INTEREST TO HIRE ME CAUSE WHAT I HAVE NOW, YOU WILL ALWAYS DREAM OF HAVING , SUB AVIATOR

[bus_aviator]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news toga boy, but by the looks of it what "I dream of having" you might not have for too much longer as well. But I guess we can blame the expats that were here just ripping this country off.... right? Enjoy your embraer amigo.

Cheers

[T O G A Boy]

flying embraer or whatever, i am proud to have a job and a salary at the end of the month. As for you, to be honest i dont know what you're on about. hopping from topic to topic. get stable my friend.
peace and out.

[staff]

Why do you offer reporters 25% tickets discount and 10kg extra baggage allowance at this time?!

Is it to stop them to write the truth?!

We are not in Jordan ...:=

[left_to_first_class]

Having had time to study the 'Plan' in a bit more detail there are more questions than answers :ugh:
As Gulf CEO mentions to add a new aircraft type to a fleet is not an overnight job and will take time to implement. Before you get the aircraft you want to make sure that the plane can actually get you there .... how many times have we heard that the version of the plane GF has does not have the range?
Yes more consultants earning more money for nothing -the Embraer plan was looked at by Hogan so nothing new there.
New destinations are welcome but negotiating rights is difficult at the most of time.

The back drop of this plan is that GF/Bahrain government wants to make the country a focal point for arab trade and tourism. Trade I can understand (and with Dubai's current problems, Bahrains banking laws would be most welcome) but tourism?
The only tourism I can see is Bahrain being the Las Vegas of the ME and we are not talking about casinos :E..roll on traffic down Exhibition Road every night! Massage any one?

[mutt]

What sort of route structure are they planning for the E190? Why dont they avoid the new aircraft introduction costs and stick with the A318/319?

Mutt

[DesertHawk]

E190 is much cheaper to purchase and direct operating costs are much cheaper. it only needs to be half full to break even where 318/319 is much more expensive both ways. I heard directly that a study was done on crew costs etc.. with the e190 and it still came up on top. i dont think Majali is so stupid he would not know and look at this. I believe financially it is a good choice!

[staff]

From where we are going to get these new aircrafts?

Does the CEO know how long need to order new planes?

5 years ago Gulfair try to sell A340 but no one want to buy them so GF decide to keep them

A340 and A330 are going to be like tristar? grounded forever..

CEO must sit with senior captains to get some tips before he take any wrong decisions.

[mutt]

DesertHawk, having done a similar assessment, i understand the economics of the E-Jet, but it all depends on having a route structure for which the aircraft is suited. We have a domestic route structure for which the aircraft is perfectly suited, thats why I'm interested in the GF route structure.

Mutt

[DesertHawk]

mutt i agree with you. as it sits today it would not makes sense. As we know GF's route structure will change dramatically in the near future. This is why the E190's makes sense. I would like to be optimistic in saying the aircraft will fit the routes:)

STAFF: It will take some serious hardships to get rid of the 340's but they are a lame duck and it has to be done! what is your alternative? fly them and lose more money? also if u mean ask the senior guys about how to improve lifestyle and improve productivety in our operation i completely agee. On the other hand to ask them about our business model would be comical as most of our guys either dont know or care and it is not in their JOB description.

[Ali Baba]

WOULD NOT BOTHER TO ASK THE SENIOR CAPTAINS MOST OF THEM RESPONSIBLE OF GF PROBLEMS, THEY REALY DID A BIG F.....CK UP WHEN THEY WERE IN MANAGEMENT (THE AAAA, AND COUSINS), WE ALL KNOW THEM STILL TRYING TO GET IN MANAGEMENT AT ALL COST,THIS COMPANY BEEN RUIN BY OUR OWN PREVIOUS MANAGEMENT PILOTS AND NOW WHO DO WE BLAME?, THEY REALLY F....CK UP, REALLY GOOD. NOW WE EAT THEIR SH...........T REST OF OUR LIVES. MAJALI IS NEW HERE TRYING TO PICK ALL THE CHOLERA DIPPERS CLEANS AND SEE WHICH ONE IS RESUABLE, NOT HIS FAULT.
END OF THE THE DAY WE GET OUR SALARY AND GO HOME WHEN OUR SERVICE NO LONGER REQUIRE (ADVISE TO BRASSPLATE START POLISH YOUR C V. YOU ARE NOT A LOCAL, JUST A NUMBER)THIS IS NOT HOTEL CALIFORNIA., (YOU CAN CHECK IN BUT CANOT LEAVE) THE DAY YOU RESIGN NO ONE ASK WHYYYYYYY. ALSO WHEN THEY KNOW WHO YOU ARE THEY WILL SHAFT YOU WITH TABASCO SCUD MISSILE ON YOUR BACKSIDE:ugh:

[Skybeds]

This is probabaly the most depressing time for the Gulf air.The sad part is the way talal zain and majali misled every one.
They failed to mention that the plan was not created by them but as usual a miltimillion dollar consultant was hired to draw the plan.
Next question is if this company has any experience in the middle east market? The answer is no.
Did they do their home work while revealing the Embraer? did they come up with the figure that will cost mumtalakaat to intoduce a new fleet? well their answer was "we will work on it".
Did airbus and boeing agreed upon order cancellation? Airbus did not and boeing meeting still to go. what is penalty? no one knows.
Did iran and saudi agree to let gulfair operate to their regional market. no
Plan is to bring passengers from 20 new destinations and fly them with the other airlines to all around the world, so did they negtiate with any airline how they will split this high yield revenue.No
Did they carry out any study on any single new destination? wether it would be feasable operate, if there any passenger demand?No
All these destination are served by very cheap low cost airlines so would any passenger will be paying gulfair more more money for an embrear ride?
the new plan was revealed on assumptions and on uncalculated risks.
God help us all
Gulf air CEO i agree with you.however, calculation and research hasnt been carried out and the plan isnt finalized yet.
i have done my own research by asking some of the emplyees of SV and RJ,they keep on complaining that the engineers on emraers keep on getting those alert letters pointing out some manufacture defect. And that there was something wrong with the SVs E-170 in which they had to carry out 2 emergency landings within 1 month.

[samjetblaster]

There is rumours that a lot of Pilots going to leave GF after the announcement of new plan.Is this true?:confused:

[T O G A Boy]

dont believe rumours. Everyday there are fresh rumours and strange ones too. One thing to keep in mind though, is to believe when you see..

[staff]

sky bed.. :D

We grew up with Gulf Air and it's really hurts to see it going down to be a low cost airline..

I dont see Gulf Air future with this new plan.. does any one think that beside the staff who will leave GF, also loyal passengers will shift to other airlines, other airlines go for big aircrafts and we go for small aircrafts only!! why?

Dont tell me that we might lease some aircrafts from RJ .. 2 rubbish aircrafts and God bless us if CEO bring more.

[T O G A Boy]

spot on Staff. GF used to be an airline that british ppl used to prefer it over BA when travelling to London. Look at the company now. It's a shame that it will downsize due to it's financial disaster. But mind you, they were thinking of getting embraers during James Hogan days and fortunately it never happened. And i seriously hope it doesnt happen this time too.

[Dixons Cider]

There is rumours that a lot of Pilots going to leave GF after the announcement of new plan.Is this true?
be the clever thing to do!!

[hunter320]

heard some something that acctually might be a good idea for GF, part of the CEO's plan to cut staff would be to creat a new company in bahrain for ground handeling, and transfer a lot of GF staff to it, and off of GF's books. at the same time have our owne handeling at bahrain and finally get rid of BAS.
if true sounds like a good idea, the same way they transfered some staff to GAA (the new training compny).
eventually leaving GF's Operations streamlined in terms of staff and run as the core compny separate from all other parts.
GF's Books will look good, but dont know about Mumtalakat'.

[Skybeds]

sky bed.. :D

We grew up with Gulf Air and it's really hurts to see it going down to be a low cost airline..

I dont see Gulf Air future with this new plan.. does any one think that beside the staff who will leave GF, also loyal passengers will shift to other airlines, other airlines go for big aircrafts and we go for small aircrafts only!! why?

Dont tell me that we might lease some aircrafts from RJ .. 2 rubbish aircrafts and God bless us if CEO bring more. I agree whats wrong with the big planes? Usually when the big planes(330and 340) fly with 100and below pax but the plane flys on full cargo! wont the airline make losses due to the lack of cargo?
GF should really re think about getting rid of the F class. I also think that those embraers people are paying majali money under the table. no one in their right mind would convert the airline which doesnt go smaller than 320s into getting them to purchase those regional aircraft.

[Ion-athan]

Guys what is the matter with you?
What makes you think that a BIG BIRD makes a company profitable?
What makes you think that the rest of the region companies are a role model for every smart business?
What makes you think that having big birds makes the company look good to our customers?
What makes you think that our senior "cpts" can give good advise to the managers? It's like the minister of transport of a serious country takes advises from his/her bus drivers. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
You guys make laugh. You people seem that you have no idea of what is going on around our world. Maybe you should start reading other news other than the "Khaleej news" and watch a less filtered channel than "Al Jazeera".
The money that the government has planned to spent on GF is nothing compare to the rest of the region. Or even if it is as big as the rest why no to spent the money on Schools, Homes, Wellfare, etc. And in the other hand make GF profitable so other generations after you can enjoy it as well? BUT NOOOO:= you guys want to fly the big birds. Because each and everyone of you can ONLY fit in a 340 and above. Maybe you can compromise with 330. THIS iS SAD.
And you know what? I hope GF succeeds on her plan to shut everybody up.
MAA SALAMIA

[Skybeds]

Guys what is the matter with you?
What makes you think that a BIG BIRD makes a company profitable?
What makes you think that the rest of the region companies are a role model for every smart business?
What makes you think that having big birds makes the company look good to our customers?
What makes you think that our senior "cpts" can give good advise to the managers? It's like the minister of transport of a serious country takes advises from his/her bus drivers. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
You guys make laugh. You people seem that you have no idea of what is going on around our world. Maybe you should start reading other news other than the "Khaleej news" and watch a less filtered channel than "Al Jazeera".
The money that the government has planned to spent on GF is nothing compare to the rest of the region. Or even if it is as big as the rest why no to spent the money on Schools, Homes, Wellfare, etc. And in the other hand make GF profitable so other generations after you can enjoy it as well? BUT NOOOO:= you guys want to fly the big birds. Because each and everyone of you can ONLY fit in a 340 and above. Maybe you can compromise with 330. THIS iS SAD.
And you know what? I hope GF succeeds on her plan to shut everybody up.
MAA SALAMIA
I think that your the management.If we do every thing for the future generations then what will we have in this generation?
Fool m e once shame on you .fool me twice shame on me. and its obviouse that the management is trying to "fool" us or something.
GF should find other ways to make profit .As this way is a little bit too risky.

[DesertHawk]

i think skybed proves the point on why GF is in this situation. Someone once told me a truly stupid person does the same thing twice and expects a different outcome:)

[Panama Jack]

I too have started to wonder whether this thread is dominated by trolls, especially in the last week or two. In any case, it shows that GF has more problems to it than just a broken business model.

[staff]

If Gulf Air needs to save money then it should chop all top managment..why?

Because they always make wrong decisions

Example:
They know they are going to close PVG so why they change the timing?!
Do you know how much it cost Gulf Air to change the timing.. a lot of money.

And now it is pick PVG and we have a lot of cargo which cover the fuel and all handling charges.

So all what skybeds said is 100% true.. any one who dont agree, maybe one of the thiefs that are well paid:D.

[Ion-athan]

Panama I think that this symbol it's unknown to this region or it does not mean a think to most of the locals.
If you ask them why the Shiaa flags are black colour aparently they will tell you that it's for moorning or maybe they will tell you that this is the shiaa colour. That goes for both shiaa and souni.

By the way Skybeds I am not management. I am just riding the same bus as you. Our diference is that it seems that I care more for your country than you do. Here is your post so I will remind you what I mean.
I think that your the management.If we do every thing for the future generations then what will we have in this generation?
Fool m e once shame on you .fool me twice shame on me. and its obviouse that the management is trying to "fool" us or something.
GF should find other ways to make profit .As this way is a little bit too risky.

[Skybeds]

i think skybed proves the point on why GF is in this situation. Someone once told me a truly stupid person does the same thing twice and expects a different outcomehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gifyea your right desert hawk and thank you for agreeing with me. I think its time to take a different approach.we really dont have any statistical value for this plan.The plan is obviously a disaster waiting to happen.

By the way Skybeds I am not management. I am just riding the same bus as you. And its obvious that the bus driver is drunk.

[IFE]

Just wondering. How much is the commission of buying 1 new aircraft?

[hunter320]

i agree with some of that brandz..
non flying employees should be redirected to other parts of the business.
we should all get invovled in brainstorming for ideas for GF, if the compny reads these forums they should take it in a positive way and use the forume to generate ideas from all its employees, mabe it will help them think outside of the box for the bennefit of all.
GF should think of other investments in Bahrain and the GCC to generate income for the core business.
maybe setup a charter arm, or a recruting company that offers qualified staff to other companies who need them in the region.

[hunter320]

the norm......1%
but usually u get more from spare parts and maint agreements. all u gotta do is sign the papers...

[Not Gulfair CEO]

It's like the minister of transport of a serious country takes advises from his/her bus drivers. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

In the defense of Bus drivers, They could have avoided the disaster lease deal of A321 had they consulted any of the bus driver or at least the cheif of bus drivers.:rolleyes:

[staff]

Ion-Athan.. go to the hell

Gulf Air is the national carrier of Bahrain and you should learn how to appreciate, being here with Shia and Sunna in this country working for this company.

[Mike.Park]

Gulf Air is the national carrier of Bahrain and you should learn how to appreciate, being here with Shia and Sunna in this country working for this company.

Goes to show how politicized this company is :bored:

[Skybeds]

the plan is ridicules. i wouldn't be surprised if GF stops flying to bahrain because its "unprofitable" :}

[0-1]

Who's going to dominate the regional flights around...


http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/11/Pages/29112009/11302009_a55ba72e7d6741bcbc06cf7ef6eaa6b4.aspx

[Ali Baba]

Lots of us still dreaming that GF days will come back, each new CEO says will turn the company around in three years, I ve been hearing this three years since 2002 when Hogan took over,every time three years, three years ,three years, how many three years?
we have to admit that will never happen, ever , Gf glory days are gone,gone, finnitoooooooooo,
my fairy free advise to all of us lets drop this dream and look some greener side next doors, otherwise we will keep moron and beaching ,my c vs will be gone soon. :D

[budgetbudgie]

Latest rumour is they (= GF ) will stop Manilla within the next 6 months.
G.S has been told to look for another job.:eek::mad::confused:

[RESCUER]

DEAR STAFF AND Ion-athan,

gOOD MORNING

I totally agree with STAFF about the corruption of GF mangement as from experience we could see that staff who leave GF ,they are very successful everywhere but in GF not,this is a logic notion that the core problem in GF co. is the managerial corruption and missmagement nothing else.

But I disagree with Ion-athan with full respect,that we do not have to mingle religions and cults of different people in the world in trying to examplify it for any issue as on what basis you did link the shii religion with a symbole shown unless you have some backwards mentalities that drive you off the road always.By any means,you do not have right to speak about sinii or shii as we will let others to speak about trinity and jewish people,budism....that would not help anyhow except creat some of burden in hearts for nothing except more heatred.

You might some rights when you mentioned that you have more loyalty to the country of STAFF,thanks for this feeling of being a mercinary in a country and you love it more than their people which shows how loyal and faithful you are.I believe that most of foreingers in Bahrain love Bahrain even more than their homes for one reason,what you might have it in such generous country ,you would not dream of it in your life in any other country in the world and this is to my knowlegde because of a political situation that let the people of this kingdom are living in an exceptional situation as they are treated less than the expat and what might let you and any other gentl people love and belong to the country of Bahrain more.
I do not mean to be tough as much as I am trying to share my poin of views as a reader,observer,and fair person to you and to all people in this universe without discrimination at all.
wish you a lovely time.

[Ion-athan]

Just to make things clear so we can continiue to what we were saying. My comment below is a "continiuing" message to Panama Jack posting the symbol of Anarchy. Concerning the religion part I did not insult anyone and you can see it from below. All I said is that a lot of people can't say why the Shiia flags are black and sometimes even the Shiia do not know. I don't see were is the religious insult.

Panama I think that this symbol it's unknown to this region or it does not mean a think to most of the locals.
If you ask them why the Shiaa flags are black colour aparently they will tell you that it's for moorning or maybe they will tell you that this is the shiaa colour. That goes for both shiaa and souni.


Continiuing on our normal conversation
I never said that the management was not corrupted. When the fish goes rotten it's start smelling from the head if you know what I mean.
We are already saying that our new CEO is corrupted just being only 4 months in Bahrain. He just announced the plan and everybody came up with his/her idea and the CEO's plan it's worthless. Give sometime to the guy then we can start shouting and protesting.
All I am saying is that we must a wait a little longer. Try to see things optimistic. An Airman or an Aviator is not only the pilot who flies the Big Bird.
Once again I am sorry if my above comment was missunderstood.
Respect to Rescuer that even though he missunderstood me he was a Gentleman
As for you STAFF I will not drop down to your level but I can assure one day I will go to hell but at least I will know why I am there.

[dundem]

I believe that 'uglyraed' (& sequels + his sister) is 'skybeds', 'staff' & most likely 'Rescuer' as well. This person adds nothing to any meaningful conversation on any subject in any universe. May I suggest ignoring any input from this source?

[samjetblaster]

How many drivers are leaving GF in the next 3 months??:sad:

[IFE]

Assuming the commission of buying new aircraft is 1%.
How much is the cost of one new regional jet?
Multiply 1% to the price of the plane time the numbers of aircraft GF want to order.
Look like someone's bank account is gonna get bigger.

No wonder, improve productivity and efficiency, cost control, and internal fraud protection are not part of the turnaround plan.

[0-1]

Gulf Air is to maintain a commitment to Europe following a new strategy designed to make the carrier a sustainable and profitable business by 2012.
Under the new strategy, the fleet composition will focus primarily on narrow-body aircraft and regional jets.
This will include a number of long-range narrow-body aircraft which will connect the airline’s Bahrain hub to key financial centres in both Europe and Asia.
Chief commercial officer Willy Boulter said: “Questions have been raised as to Gulf Air’s commitment to Europe under the new strategy.
“Gulf Air fully intends to continue flying to all our strategic European points in London, Frankfurt, Paris, Istanbul, Athens and Larnaca.”
He revealed that the carrier plans to strengthen its presence in Europe “in the not too distant future” by “leveraging Bahrain’s position as the financial hub of the Gulf and connecting it with leading financial centres in Europe”.
Boulter added: “Expansion into Europe becomes more viable, under the new strategy, not less.”
He continued: “Our priority is to provide our customers with a reliable, convenient, professional and value driven service".
“Our new-look international network will reflect our customers’ needs and enable us to consolidate and expand our existing position as the carrier with the largest number of Middle East connections through our efficient Bahrain Airport hub.”

:ok:

[staff]

dundem.. Why you are such worried from our inputs!!

[staff]

0-1 (http://www.pprune.org/members/315366-0-1) You must be Majari or one of the thief.

we did not born yesterday to lie as.

How do you know we will make money?

We have been hear this strory for so many years.

if you will tell me we are going to closed down 2012 then I will belive you

[Not Gulfair CEO]

you could be right about ugly raed but I am not going to put him on my ignore list this time or at least not for now. ignore list should done for racists like brass plate.I know the new sky bed some time writes craps but at least he is focused on gulf air issues not on personl attacks like others.

[Skybeds]

Is the airline really going to end the F class?
the E 170 are good but it doesn't seem to be well planned. The airline usually transports the F1 team and the big equipments who are coming to Bahrain. Doesn't the airline has some contract with DHL for some cargo deal?
usually that used to maximize the profits even when the plane used to go in a under load.

I really think that the airline should reconsider in keeping the F and the J class in the airline.if one of them are discarded by the airline, it wouldn't take a fool to tell you all that this is a cheap airline.

[staff]

to tell The true brandtzag (http://www.pprune.org/members/103236-brandtzag) how can we make profit?

If we oparate Iraq with 9 Pax coming back 12 pax?
Iraq sector should only oparate during certain month a year which is high season.

The problem is we dont study just open distination and closed other.

Why we closed milan? and now we need to open again.
Just because QR oparate there and we copy from them?

QR have good connection.

[Radar Contact]

@Staff; You are an idiot, Gulf Air is making gold on Iraq, I doubt you work for GF otherwise you would know that the belly of the aircrafts going there is ALWAYS FULL with cargo! - GF does not care if it's 1 passenger or million as long as the belly is full, the route is a gold maker ;)

Also to add, You haven't I assume seen the reservations on BAH-NJF right? All flights are SOLD OUT weeks in advance!

[staff]

Radar Contact.. If threre is cargo to Iraq, why they dont send cargo aircrafts!!

Do you know how much cargo we used to have from PVG.. You said GF dont bother about pax load if there is cargo.. so what is the reason to close PVG!!

You prove my point that Iraq destinations should be open in seasons like now which is " Muharam " is coming.

What about BGW & EBL?

[Not Gulfair CEO]

Cargo revenues from war areas are considerably higher.
15 Tons from PVG= 1 Ton from BGW

[samjetblaster]

For the last time,How many drivers are leaving or considering leaving?:confused:

[staff]

Brandzag.. It seems you are the one who have incredible plan with your financial numbers.. Is Gulf Air current situation because of your miss calculation?!

Maybe you can give us plan to save 1160 employees jobs.

[Mephistopheles]

It seems a strang plan(although Mr I Al Hamer first proposed it way back pre-Hogan era). Especially when most low cost carriers look at operating costs v. profits & go for 320s or 737s. Maybe, Mr Majli has pulled different figures out from-you-know-where in order to convince the board that the embraer is the way to go(commission please!!!!!!!!). I guess he will also create destinations for us to operate to where Air Arabia don't fly to since they pretty much have the regional market cornered. Another bad plan from yet anther self proclaimed aviation genius to help bring GF down to even lower depths. Hold your noses guys, this drop is gonna be fast, furious & bloody.
GF R.I.P.

[T O G A Boy]

I hope the guys at the top know what they're doing, cause the last thing we'd like to see is the demise of Gulf Air.
On a different note, i have a strong feeling that staff is ugly raed cause it is the same attitude, grammar,mistakes and worthless comments....

I have to search again for the ignore button :rolleyes:

[Skybeds]

to tell The true brandtzag (http://www.pprune.org/members/103236-brandtzag) how can we make profit?

If we oparate Iraq with 9 Pax coming back 12 pax?
Iraq sector should only oparate during certain month a year which is high season.

The problem is we dont study just open distination and closed other.

Why we closed milan? and now we need to open again.
Just because QR oparate there and we copy from them?

QR have good connection. but GF made alot of money from the Iraqi rout.im not sure about the milan thing but i completely disagree with you on the iraq statement....GF doesn't have any cargo aircraft. and i dont this the airline would in this century.because of those damn regional aircraft that they are getting.hopefully the airline would scrap that ridiculous plan and stick with the order of the 330s (which they were lucky to get)

[0-1]

Unfortunately, the only way to make a short-haul network profitable is to cut costs dramatically. Short-haul, full-service operators in Europe have taken the brunt of the downturn and I'm not sure that the Government of Bahrain fully realizes the implications of going down the short-haul road. All those high-paying management, pilot and cabin crew jobs are going to have to go. I suspect, therefore, that the hurt is only just beginning for Gulf Air.

:{

[ferris]

IMHO
Where is the 'differentiation' necessary for survival? If Gf concedes the top end (as it has) has been lost to likes of QR, EK and EY, then why not go for all-economy? If it's making it's money in cargo, why not revive the Gulf Traveler model (which was profitable, as I understand it). Certainly it would work with MNL etc. where there is absolutely no one paying for a front seat anyway. In my experience, lots of the pax (almost all) are transits on BKKs etc to Europe (in particular Paris), other ME destinations (Dammam etc) - and vice versa. Why not play to your strengths?
I really think that all-economy is the only niche left for GF. The regional 'thing' is all sown up and a revenue decreasing exercise anyway.

[A300Man]

Ferris, I think you might be onto something there actually. Long haul Y operation (decent operation) wouldn't go amiss in these hard times. Perhaps a certain amount of GF pride would have to be swallowed to be brave enough to ditch F and J completely, though. But the concept of yours is a good one, IMO.

If they wished, the could supplement the operation with A319LR's in all J config for routes which still carry "some" demand for a premium cabin.

[brassplate]

if bahrain really want to reduce their losses, get rid of the airline altogether and let the others service it.

[Skybeds]

if bahrain really want to reduce their losses, get rid of the airline altogether and let the others service it.
your just being ridiculous .
Imagine a rich country like bahrain doesnt even own an airline.
I know that your reply will be "hey what about bahrain air?"
Bahrain air doesnt have a reputation like Gulf air. The brand is realy old and unique.
it would be a very immature decision if the country would "get rid" of the airline.
If it wasnt for the experienced brand for the airline, GF would be known has bahrain air(or something like that)by now

[PAR31]

Imagine a rich country like bahrain doesnt even own an airline.
????????:confused:

[DesertHawk]

as i read this thread it get more and more amusing. WHEN are people going to wake up and realize bahrain and GF are not in the good old days!!!!! you talk to people and they just dont get it. EMB190's in the reat of the world are really nice aircraft but not here? no we can only fly 320 and 380 lol........ it makes u realize why this airline is so messed up!!!

[brassplate]

skybeds,
think about it intellectually and not emotionally. the regional and international aviation market is completely saturated. bahrain is not rich enough to own its own airline. all the neighbours have more than enough aircrafts to serve the entire middle east at least twice over. bahrain will be well served without having the burden on its economy of having to run an airline. really, only those employed by gf will miss out. worth it if its going to save the national economy 1.35 million a day.
otherwise, stick with majalis regional plan a die a slow and painful death.

[Ali Baba]

Imagine the AAAAs and all the top range tom cruizies flying E190? HAHAHAhSsssssssssssssssZZZZZZPPPPP:mad: LION OF THE SKYYYYYYY:mad: N alshabab,the muscular man, and the rest who ffffffff GF.
E190 DEFFINETLY SENIORITY, HEY BRASSTHHH WHAT SENIORITY NUMBER ARE YOU?

[Skybeds]

skybeds,
think about it intellectually and not emotionally. the regional and international aviation market is completely saturated. bahrain is not rich enough to own its own airline. all the neighbours have more than enough aircrafts to serve the entire middle east at least twice over. bahrain will be well served without having the burden on its economy of having to run an airline. really, only those employed by gf will miss out. worth it if its going to save the national economy 1.35 million a day.
otherwise, stick with majalis regional plan a die a slow and painful death.
I partially agree with you but the fact is that the country is fully capable of handling one of the best airlines.But because of those blood sucking management the airline is in this drastic stage. The airline should get creative in saving money. They should find a way to get some foreign investment. And the only reason no one fly's the F and J class of GF anymore is because of their crappy seats. If the airline gets a top of the line F and J class cabin and advertise it in a right way, the airline would get back their upper class customers back.hence, the airline would be close to getting back to profit.
But why wasnt this mentioned by majali.The upper management should really open their minds for new idea in making money.As i said those E 170s are not as reliable as the airbus 319s and 320s are.the only reason that majali might be doing this si becouse of the commisions(that Mephistopheles mentioned) or hes getting money under the table from those plane manufacturer.

[DesertHawk]

skybeds are u serious? FOREIGN investment? lol seriously we lost 500 million and are a government ARAB airline. i only say this becasue no western invester would invest with us especially with dubai the way it has gone and the way we are!!!! and honestly u think us getting nice f/j will make us money? qatar and etihad are flying at deficits on most routes and they have no problem with doing so as THEY CAN AFFORD IT!!!! i really am dumbfounded by people who just dont realize we are not in that situation. accept it! move on and make GF the best sirline it can be. which is not a major airline! also stop bashing an aircraft u just dont like. E190 and most regional jets are nice aircraft not really what i want to fly but they are NICE and relieable. u know i think it is obvious that most GF people are still living in the clouds and have no clue about real airlines and how to make it all work!:ugh:

[Skybeds]

also stop bashing an aircraft u just dont like. E190 and most regional jets are nice aircraft not really what i want to fly but they are NICE and relieable.I talked to some people in SV and they kept on complaining about the E-170s. The airline keep on getting alert messages about their E-170s telling them to change one thing or another in the E-170( bunch of endless technical stuff).
plus, there are the 318s. they are much smaller than any other airbus or boeing aircraft.
So why not order those.
As i said ,majali is getting some money under the table.
The best remedy for getting out of the situation GF is in is to stick with one plan and follow it,other than keep on changing the plans again and again:ugh:.
this is really getting ridiculous .
I would really advice GF to stick with their 330 orders. They had to go through a lot just to get that slot and now the airline doesn't want them anymore.

don't take it in the wrong way but the correct word is aircraft not aircraftS.:)

[DesertHawk]

sktbewd all aircraft have problems!!!! look at all of our planes. 330 and 340 are all breaking down all the time. and not trying to stick up for EMB's bhut they are wat cheaper to run then 318's that is the reason no major airline operates 318's. and as far as sticking to a plan i agree but first u actually have to have a plan that is sensible. anyways if u actually wanted to learn about this u would read the specs on these aircraft. look for yourself GF is making a good decision if they are gog into short haul routes.

[hunter320]

E 190's are cheaper to run but I'm sure the cost of training and maintenance will be high, so not much saving there. from sales point of view, it would be better for E190's. no middle seat in the config which no body wants anyway.
yet on the other hand looking at the type of PAX we carry they all carry big luggage and extra wt. where will they fit all that?

i dint know if there is any sim in the region for E190's, the closest one i know is in London, theres another cost for sending crew there for SIM.
as far as Tech probs, the jet has been in the market for some time now, so i gather it shouldn't be that bad.

commission? maybe... its a fact : any new CEO either- sell, Buy, lease, Sublease, new strategy, new look or change livery..... thats the only way to make money. (for them i mean):D

so let them do what they are best at doing (make money)
-for them self-

[repapips]

Unfortunately, the only way to make a short-haul network profitable is to cut costs dramatically. Short-haul, full-service operators in Europe have taken the brunt of the downturn and I'm not sure that the Government of Bahrain fully realizes the implications of going down the short-haul road. All those high-paying management, pilot and cabin crew jobs are going to have to go. I suspect, therefore, that the hurt is only just beginning for Gulf Air.

0-1:
How can an airline, no matter how small, even with a single aircraft, fly when "All those high-paying management, pilot and cabin crew jobs" are gone?
A remote-controlled aircraft?
I hate to say this but there's just too many ill-informed (or uninformed) people on this thread.
:)

[Duh]

You're probably spot on repa. I wonder how many of the "intelligencia" here has even viewed the slides and presentations regarding the Embraer acft. Like how efficient the E-190 really is. They have a terrific website.

[justforfun]

I don't work for GF... I am not a pilot but have been involved in all aspects of Aviation for around 22 yrs and as a Manager for around 16 of those, I have been living in Bahrain for around 6 years, and I WANT GF to succeed but I am quite astounded right now by some of the tosh here. I would not normally get involved in a discussion such as this, but jeez!

What I see on this rapidly growing thread is lots of opinions, advice etc from "some pilots or others" of GF... the Pilots that are here to do a job etc are quite quiet! The question I have for the others, is at which point in a Pilot or Crews career are you educated, qualified and engaged at Management level to have an input in how to run an Airline?

So far I see people saying order more A330's, don't buy the Embraer, he's getting back handers, the EMB is no good etc... and so on... you do this based on what?? Aspiring to fly XXX type is hardly a business model is it folks!!!

Majali is quite possibly the best chance GF has, he has a PROVEN track record which others have not had, and will ever have... I don't work there but I hear so many times stories from various places, GF included, about "jobs for the boys" etc... IF that is true, it needs to be stopped, and quickly...

GF should not be "an option to employ Bahraini's or anyone else regardless"...

If the country wants a competitive Airline, they need to employ competent staff, irrespective of nationality a bit like QR, EK or EY!!!!

I know that will not sit well with some, but at the end of the day, the Airline will only be successful pending who is running it and who is working for it - regardless of nationality!!

For the person that mentioned about cargo and no demand etc... DHL has been flying in excess of 20 flights a day, every day for the past 6 years to Iraq, Afghanistan, UAE, Saudi, Kuwait etc... they use GF for "some" cargo out of Bahrain to EU.... but thats it... so far!

Some of the posters here need a big reality check, and soon!

Cheers
JFF

[0-1]

0-1:
How can an airline, no matter how small, even with a single aircraft, fly when "All those high-paying management, pilot and cabin crew jobs" are gone?
A remote-controlled aircraft?
I hate to say this but there's just too many ill-informed (or uninformed) people on this thread.That's logic repapips, for an airline revert to a short haul only service and be profitable it has to reduce salaries and number of crew, unless its new fleet is big enough to accommodate the original number of crew, although the crew's salaries takes around 3% of the airline's budget.

Remote-controlled aircraft are not allowed in Bahrain, by the way.

:{

[Panama Jack]

Bravo!!! A round of applause for justforfun :D :D :D

The first decent post in quite a while on this thread.

[repapips]

0-1:

Let me quote again what you posted verbatim:
Unfortunately, the only way to make a short-haul network profitable is to cut costs dramatically. Short-haul, full-service operators in Europe have taken the brunt of the downturn and I'm not sure that the Government of Bahrain fully realizes the implications of going down the short-haul road. All those high-paying management, pilot and cabin crew jobs are going to have to go. I suspect, therefore, that the hurt is only just beginning for Gulf Air.

Let me know if you want me to spell it out for you.
Nice rebuttal on the remote-controlled aircraft though. I simply can't think of any other way an airplane would fly without a pilot unless it's an UAV.

:eek:

[0-1]

Logic, logic...

High-paying, I say again, high-paying!

:ugh:

That is my point and I am not an airline manager, but I fly remote-controlled planes with my son back home...

:ok:

[Duh]

Justforfun, you used the classic GF pilot line......I don't work for GF LOL

But that doesn't matter, your 110% correct in your assessment.

Brandztag, you also hit the nail on the head, "with at least a HS education". That would be an elusive if not most difficult thing to obtain on the Island and it's Very Very sad ! The three Mouseketeers should be ashamed of themselves. :}

[Skybeds]

I don't work for GF... I am not a pilot but have been involved in all aspects of Aviation for around 22 yrs and as a Manager for around 16 of those, I have been living in Bahrain for around 6 years, and I WANT GF to succeed but I am quite astounded right now by some of the tosh here. I would not normally get involved in a discussion such as this, but jeez!

What I see on this rapidly growing thread is lots of opinions, advice etc from "some pilots or others" of GF... the Pilots that are here to do a job etc are quite quiet! The question I have for the others, is at which point in a Pilot or Crews career are you educated, qualified and engaged at Management level to have an input in how to run an Airline?

So far I see people saying order more A330's, don't buy the Embraer, he's getting back handers, the EMB is no good etc... and so on... you do this based on what?? Aspiring to fly XXX type is hardly a business model is it folks!!!

Majali is quite possibly the best chance GF has, he has a PROVEN track record which others have not had, and will ever have... I don't work there but I hear so many times stories from various places, GF included, about "jobs for the boys" etc... IF that is true, it needs to be stopped, and quickly...

GF should not be "an option to employ Bahraini's or anyone else regardless"...

If the country wants a competitive Airline, they need to employ competent staff, irrespective of nationality a bit like QR, EK or EY!!!!

I know that will not sit well with some, but at the end of the day, the Airline will only be successful pending who is running it and who is working for it - regardless of nationality!!

For the person that mentioned about cargo and no demand etc... DHL has been flying in excess of 20 flights a day, every day for the past 6 years to Iraq, Afghanistan, UAE, Saudi, Kuwait etc... they use GF for "some" cargo out of Bahrain to EU.... but thats it... so far!

Some of the posters here need a big reality check, and soon!





I see your point. But people kept on saying that "james hogan is quite possibly the best chance GF has"And that was obviously not true. same thing for Dose and BN. Plus, The airline has gone through several turn around programs and the plan just gets ridiculas ever year. So how do we know that this is a full proof plan?
we have no statictical value here either.
As far as i know GF, the management just keep on praising what ever the CEO says or does.They would even praise him when he would be setting the GF office on fire( being sarcastic here)

[Da Do Ron Ron]

I flew BAH/DOH/BAH on an A319 (A9U-EU both sectors) today. Both flights were full in Y and surprisingly only 5% were transfer pax.

Both flights left on time and the snack box was handed out before take off.

Good flights but aircraft could do with a bit of a clean as the backs of both seats I sat in were grubby underneath the tray table and were covered in food.

Doha immigration was a disaster both in and out whereby Bahrain was very smooth with the usual 'You're welcome Sir'.

I still think that Bahrain is the best hub & transit point in ME, I know GF has it's problems but I'm not changing ...

[Albergineman]

Cleanliness is a big issue around here...

:yuk:

[Skybeds]

I flew BAH/DOH/BAH on an A319 (A9U-EU both sectors) today. Both flights were full in Y and surprisingly only 5% were transfer pax.

Both flights left on time and the snack box was handed out before take off.

Good flights but aircraft could do with a bit of a clean as the backs of both seats I sat in were grubby underneath the tray table and were covered in food.

Doha immigration was a disaster both in and out whereby Bahrain was very smooth with the usual 'You're welcome Sir'.

I still think that Bahrain is the best hub & transit point in ME, I know GF has it's problems but I'm not changing ...
yea cleanliness is something GF should work on.....
yea bahrain is the best place for transit maybe because of the fact that they have been doing this for 60 years

[Da Do Ron Ron]

If GF can fill an A319 (ok, bums on seats don't equal profit) but with the amount of cargo carried can an E190 match this cargo requirement ?.

Also, as GF is the Bahrain flag carrier, why do they use romote stands & buses whereas Jazeera, Bahrain Air, Kuwait airways etc use the main stands ?

[Skybeds]

f GF can fill an A319 (ok, bums on seats don't equal profit) but with the amount of cargo carried can an E190 match this cargo requirement ?.

Also, as GF is the Bahrain flag carrier, why do they use romote stands & buses whereas Jazeera, Bahrain Air, Kuwait airways etc use the main stands ?
Now thats a good question

[Ion-athan]

MIAMI for scrap......

[ironbutt57]

Story has it that Omni Air, (the mob u see in KWI doing military charters) have taken 2 for ops, and one as a "spares" dept...

First A340s on the FAA/ US registery i think

[Skybeds]

what if the negotiation with the airbus doesn't go as well as they have planned?
maybe there will be new(er) strategy :ugh:( thats why the plan hasn't been confirmed yet)

are the 777s gone? because i haven't really seen them for a long time.

[samjetblaster]

I heard over through the grapevine that GF will only have 4 A330 a/c for MNL and LHR, the rest A319/A320/A321 and maybe few Embraers.

[Duh]

SamJet, that's old news. The GFpilots are in the coping or acceptance phase now. :}

[Skybeds]

im still in question stage now:} what if the negotiations doesn't work out well? then what would happen?
318s are way better than those E-170/90

[DesertHawk]

:ok:lol skybed u are comical. Are u talking about personal preference if aircraft or what? 318's were designed as business jet like the BBJ. there IS a reason no airline flys them!!!! just like all airbus they are nice to fly and easy to operate that does not make them the right aircraft for GF. I was actuall thinking we should get 727-100 i have always wanted to fly them!!!!

[Skybeds]

i heard that the guys from upstairs are rethinking about the removal of first class:).because the regional jets would be fully Y class and the 330s will only Y/J( and that would not be a little weird)i wont mind if the airlines fleets would mainly consists of the 320.because they are reliable and fuel efficient. However, there are countless number of business pax flying to dubai and Kuwait almost every day. And the flights are mostly fully( occupied by business travellers).
and to accommodate the business travelers the airline would need at least J class( no rich Arab is ready to fly Y class:})from what i know the E-190s are almost exactly similar to the 319s .
As it would be easier for the airline to go all airbus until the 787s arrive .

[Skybeds]

why did Gf had to spend so much money on their new website?

[Albergineman]

why did Gf had to spend so much money on their new website? why did Gf had to spend so much money on...
...
Plastic garbage bag,
Replacing painted ENR charts,
Printing so many questionnaires,
Creating so many commemorative aircraft liveries,
Maintaining so many useless employees,
Paying BAS for so mediocre service,
And so on...


:sad:

[Skybeds]

Creating so many commemorative aircraft liveries
good one.I agree the present livery is still ok. the only thing they need to change is their cabins and now they are going mad with money:{.
at the same time they keep on claiming that they don have money?

[Panama Jack]

I was actuall thinking we should get 727-100 i have always wanted to fly them!!!!

I would have to agree with you DesertHawk. I've always wanted to fly a 727 also (I think the idea of getting 727-200's should not be ruled out entirely either). Any 727 pilot you talk to speaks rapturously about the aircraft and it's performance-- it goes fast and is fun and easy to fly. With three engines and sexy lines, it also has widespread passenger appeal (and 3 engines enhances safety) . . . although I am not enitirely convinced with the winglets which make the airplane look just plain queer. Just imagine what a head-turner a 727 sporting the new Golden Falcon with the name "WhisperJet" on the tail would have-- it would be the talk of the Gulf and bring back the glory days!

And for just a couple million dollars per aircraft, Gulf Air could have a stable full of 727's (which have 3 engines) for the price of just one little Embraer (which have only two engines)! In fact, the Company could probably arrange a swap-- a number of B-727's for the A340's the airline is trying to shed which makes it a cash-free transaction! It is like buying a car, you can buy one Mercedes or you can buy a few Hyundais for the price of one Mercedes. Both take you from point A to point B. ;)

[DesertHawk]

panama think we are on to something! why not bring the L1011'a back they are cheap also:) umm one problem skybed would have major problems flying something that requires using both hands:):E

[Spirit]

Skybed aka Uglyraed is only flying in his immature dreams!!!

[ferris]

It is like buying a car, you can buy one Mercedes or you can buy a few Hyundais for the price of one Mercedes. Your analogy, PJ, should be more like;
You can buy one brand new Hyundai, or a whole bunch of old Mercedes.

It would make more sense than flying around a bunch of old hyundais, which is what is currently happening.

[WELCO]

Panama Jack & DesertHawk,

I agree with you guys on your opinion of the 727. But this A/C is already an out-of-production model. I don't think you are talking about buying oldies, do you?!

[Panama Jack]

Regarding the three-holers, as they say in that part of the World where a trailer is a home, every vehicle comes with a gun rack as "standard equipment" and 'possums worry about becoming a main ingredient in a pie, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" :}

Nevermind me and DesertHawk. We're just funnin' a bit. :p

[Skybeds]

727s are way to outdated. Has it occur to you that GF is trying to reduce the age of its fleet .those aircraft may be the the best at that time. its the 21st century, no airline in the world is even thinking about purchasing those 727s

[ex desert dweller]

As well as Skybeds inexprience flying with 2 hands. How would he deal with the inclusion of a Flight Engineer in the crew !!! :):)

[T O G A Boy]

how can u guys be so sure that skybed can actually fly......:=

[G-FULL]

Sorry I am missing the picture but how is GF earning money by agreeing to transporting cargo FREE OF CHARGE !!!

"Responding to a request from the Philippine Embassy in Bahrain, Gulf Air carried free of charge, two tons of cargo containing relief goods such as clothes, blankets and canned-foods. "


How can this company make profit by flying 2Tonnes of cargo for free, PR fail / Gulf Air fail. I know about the humanatrian gestures bla bla but seriously, GF could have carried 1 for free and 1 for $$ :ugh:

[Mephistopheles]

Humanatarian gesture from Gf?


Never was,never will be any of the above when all the Board, CEO & other useless managers care about is filling their pockets in as short a time as possible since their don't know when "their number's up."
On another note 2010 is quickly drawing to an end & so is the chance for the board & CEO to, at least mention, that GF is celebrating it's 60th anniversary this year-if fact it should have been 24th March but who cares! I guess all the talk of company history & loyalty by the blood suckers above are just useless sound bytes for the "dumb" employees.
Anyone know where I can lease a wrecking ball & demolish the top 2 floors at HQ?

[Skybeds]

Anyone know where I can lease a wrecking ball & demolish the top 2 floors at HQ?
why not just set it on fire?? :)

[ddd]

FlyDubai is ALSO starting twice daily flights to Bahrain soon. How is GF going to compete against all these low cost airlines on a regional basis?

[Skybeds]

FlyDubai is ALSO starting twice daily flights to Bahrain soon. How is GF going to compete against all these low cost airlines on a regional basis?
thank you for making that point. the only upper hand GF has is their wide body fleet.
and now they wont even have those.

[Desertia]

As I posted on another forum, Spirit of Manila Airlines is shortly to start a thrice-weekly Bahrain-Clark flight for US$600 return.

Another nail in the GF coffin if you ask me.

[ferris]

Yeehah! At that price, I'll be on it thrice weekly.

Angeles, here we come!

[stefan1138]

Out of curiosity I just did a flight search Clark - Bahrain in January and found out that the flight is operated by MD-83!...

[Duh]

Skybeds says
"the only upper hand GF has is their wide body fleet."

Now that is a funny statement, because it shows a complete lack of almost any aviation knowlege. :}

[CRUIZE]

Poor Gulf Air, shafted in all directions.

[G-FULL]

@Stefan1138; The flight will be operated by Spirit of Manila airlines.

[Skybeds]

gulf air should find a new edge. other wise its bye bye golden falcon:)

[T O G A Boy]

Duh, i'm wondering why you're even bothering yourself with skybed. Once a kid always a kid... He is amongst others on my ignore list and i dont even want to know what he says on here.. Guess nothing short of childish remarks..
Anyway, regarding GF, the other day i was told that the management are looking to dry lease the wide bodies. I dont know how true it is.
Anybody here heard anything relevant...

[Skybeds]

Anyway, regarding GF, the other day i was told that the management are looking to dry lease the wide bodies. I dont know how true it is.
Anybody here heard anything relevant...heard the same thing.As the airline wants to replace their 340s with some other wide body aircraft.preferably twin engine aircraft.
but not that sure if its true .
oh and GF should act soon because etihad and emirates are on their way to dominate the Europe and Sydney route.plus fly dubai , air Arabia and al jazeera airlines have almost taken over the middle eastern routes:bored:

[HakunaMatata]

I’m trying to get an angle here. Someone help me. There was never any Ozzie participation in Bahrains National Day celebrations when little JH was around. I don’t recall The Swiss ever taking any part when D an N were around. Today we have a brotherly display by the Royal Jordanian Aerobatic chaps followed tomorrow by two days of rousing music by the Jordanian Armed Forces band. My question being why after a million years has Jordan suddenly become so friendly with Bahrain? Will the next brotherly gesture be the arrival of a squadron of those horrible little third world aeroplanes flown by our Jordanian counterparts to help in the turn around of poor old Gulf Air. Me thinks it won’t be a gesture though. More like a Wet Lease. Look on the bright side though. They can do all the Iraq flights seeing as they are the acknowledged experts on the area and will have less seats to fill and therefore be far more efficient on the low yield sectors. This leads me to another question that baffles me. If a certain sector flies full, dump it. Another sector flies damn near empty. No problems put a little aeroplane on it. At the rate Gulf Air is going they’ll be flying Cessna 150s everywhere and all the new cadet pilots can do the work.

[Skybeds]

hey can do all the Iraq flights seeing as they are the acknowledged experts on the area and will have less seats to fill and therefore be far more efficient on the low yield sectors. This leads me to another question that baffles me. If a certain sector flies full, dump it. Another sector flies damn near empty. No problems put a little aeroplane on it. At the rate Gulf Air is going they’ll be flying Cessna 150s everywhere and all the new cadet pilots can do the work.
:D:D:D:D well said!

[ironbutt57]

Thing is gentleman, certain full sectors are priced below profit making rates in order to compete with other airlines who are able due to their cost structure to operate them at lower fares, or at a loss just to maintain a "market presence", GF apparently have decided they cannot, or are unwilling to do this..

[Panama Jack]

Unfortunately, ironbutt, trying to explain this basic concept is an uphill battle in a part of the world where the Laws of Economics seemingly don't apply.

[brassplate]

the jones's do what they do because they CAN. bahrain tries to keep up at great cost that it can not afford, but persists to keep up. bahrain air does not help the issue, like not enough butter over too much bread.
gentlemen, no country is rich enough to run an airline badly. airlines have a knack of humbling the great and mighty. bahrain is neither rich nor mighty. tis time to rethink even the current strategy because it is a strategy which only delays the inevitable, a slow and painful death. offer all gf slots and routes to any one of the neighbours. the up side is bahrainis and everyone in bahrain will fly on newer and safer aircraft to more places than gf can ever offer. swallow that bahraini pride, save that little money bahrain has and let the big airlines operate for you.

[CRUIZE]

Hey brass you start talking some sense ehh?

[Skybeds]

the up side is bahrainis and everyone in bahrain will fly on newer and safer aircraft to more places than gf can ever offer. swallow that bahraini pride, save that little money bahrain has and let the big airlines operate for you.
that was funny... a total pessimistic person would say.. with that attitude ,most countries would have almost nothing.

[Panama Jack]

A few months ago I was talking with a friend who did a few mental gymnastics with the numbers. Given the current amount of money we are losing, it would be cheaper for the Bahraini Government to shut down the airline and send all 5000 employees their monthly paycheck to stay at home or spend their days in the shopping mall rather than to continue running the airline.

Another option (change nothing) is to continue to run an expensive model railroad-cum-flying club that swallows up a third of Bahrain's budget.

Fortunately, the leaders of this country (in their wisdom), reject either of these two visions for the future and are finally figuring that in order to maintain an airline (whilst not ignoring the pressing demands for social housing, medical care, infrastructure and other demands of the country and its citizens), the airline must become more self-sustaining.

Skybeds, other countries "have things" because these "things" either pay for themselves, are run by the private sector, or are paid for by tax money from its citizens. The current Gulf Air business model does not meet the litmus test for any of these situations in Bahrain. In the rest of the world where people may be paying 40% of their income on taxes to the government, they demand fiscal responsibility to keep their taxes from spiraling upwards.

It's not often, but today I have to agree with brassplate. With the changes hopefully Bahrain will end up with an airline that serves its needs much better, costs less to Bahrain and its future generations, and allows Government funds to be redeployed on better roads, sewers, schools and clinics.

Either way, Gulf Air's business model, as we know it, is broken and the airline needs to evolve. Otherwise, the Golden Falcon risks joining the following:

List of extinct birds - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinct_birds)

[Skybeds]

i completely agree with you. but if the airline succeeds in making profit it could be a great source of money for the Bahrain government. good one on the list of the extinct birds:ok:
but doesnt the word evolveactually means to develop gradually by a process of growth and change... but the airline is shrinking.:)

[ddd]

To Brassplate and PanamaJack , :ok:

[repapips]

sometimes you really just have to spell it out...
PJ, i guess you need to do it for skybeds... as i thought i would for 0-1 earlier...
but then again... why bother? this is not KG. :ugh:

[Not Me]

Thing is gentleman, certain full sectors are priced below profit making rates in order to compete with other airlines who are able due to their cost structure to operate them at lower fares, or at a loss just to maintain a "market presence", GF apparently have decided they cannot, or are unwilling to do this..


Then what choice GF has? What can be done to keep flying without losing?:confused:

I dont think its possible to fly in this region without losing, simply because of the competetion from many legacy and low cost airlines which dont care much about the cash.:eek:

It doesnt matter what do you do or what strategy you follow, its no way GF can make money, simply because nobody does and noboy is interesting in doing that in the region.:=

[brassplate]

hence my solemn solution. let bahrain keep it's meager wealth. let the other cashed up neighbours serve her flying requirements and make the losses. and as pj said, let bahrain use the little money it has on it's infrastructure and people. khalas. that wasn't so hard was it.

[Skybeds]

well its easy to say which one of you are still working for GF and the ones who used to....

[brassplate]

what difference does it make whether i work with them or not? if you must know, i do. but that is irrelevant to the issue at hand. i'll leave tomorrow and find work elsewhere.
i suspect you are local. if your attitude and intellect represent those running the company, there is absolutely no wonder the airline is in the mess that it is in.
what i said stands. it is still the only solution i see. close shop and let the others fly bahrainis in and out.

[Skybeds]

Gulf Air, the national carrier of Bahrain, has introduced a series of initiatives which will result in an annual reduction of around 33,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from its aircraft.
The significant fuel reductions are expected from the proactive initiatives being rolled out by the Gulf Air fuel conservation committee, which is exclusively charged with looking at ways for the airline to reduce its carbon foot print.
“As a pioneering airline in the region, Gulf Air believes it can play a positive role in protecting the environment and help build a better future for our children, the local community and the world,” said Samer Majali, Gulf Air chief executive officer.
“What better occasion there can be than announcing our comprehensive carbon-emission reduction measures, when countries of the world have converged in Copenhagen to discuss climate change?” he added.
Majali continued: “As a responsible corporate citizen we are fully committed to this global cause and these are some of our proactive measures towards this commitment. Besides, as a long-standing member of the International Air Transport Association (IATA), we are in tune with the world body’s commitment to achieve carbon-neutral growth from 2020.”
One of the key initiatives the airline has introduced to reduce fuel consumption include flying a more direct route to certain destinations resulting in the reduction of around 22,600 tonnes of CO2 emissions per year.
In another initiative, the airline has combined the two in-flight magazines, Gulf Life and the in-flight entertainment guide, On Air into one magazine. The new look, Gulf Life magazine, is being produced using a slightly lower weight (gsm) paper to reduce the overall weight carried on board.
In addition, the airline will reduce the number of spare in-flight magazines carried on board and instead make provision for storage and replenishment on the ground at its Bahrain hub and outstations. The combined benefit of these measures will result in the reduction of approximately 600 tonnes of carbon dioxide (CO2) emission per year.
In another environment-friendly measure, Gulf Air has also reduced the amount of potable water it carries on board its flights by 25 per cent, which will save around 1,800 tons of carbon emissions each year.
Other fuel conservation measures include reduced contingency fuel, acceleration height management and flight spare kit weight reduction that will together save approximately 8300 tonnes of CO2 emission- all intended to improve efficiency while maintaining the highest levels of flight safety and schedule reliability.
Captain Nasser Al Salmi, chief operating officer and chair of the fuel conversation committee said: “We have an objective to conduct all our operations with a genuine, balanced and proper regard for the need to sustain natural resources.
“From reducing the weight of our in-flight magazine to investing in clean-air technology, we are looking at every single area of our operations to find ways to reduce our carbon footprint and help maintain a better environment in accordance with international standards and regulations related to environmental protection.”
Recently, the airline has also chosen the most fuel-efficient options to power its new fleet. The A320 Airbus aircraft on order - three of which that already joined the fleet - will be powered by CFM56-5B engine that will reduce emissions by 200 tonnes per aircraft per year.
Following the signing of a pledge in October 2008, Gulf Air is also working with the Sustainable Aviation Fuel Users Group on commercialization, certification, and provision of a viable market in order to accelerate the development of alternative fuels


obviously the airline just wanted to cut costs..

[Capt Quagmire]

Good publicity finally

However...

The 33000 Ton CO2 reduction they claim might actually be offset - to an increase, due the recent increase in baggage allowance. Also the ID50 tickets and increased baggage allowance given to reporters, possibly to get this warm fuzzy article, and future ones.

Whoever wrote this article must have been giggling like a schoolgirl the whole way through. If they had a clue. :hmm:

CO2...

Again the crew take the hit in this issue. Cabin crew baggage reduction... Increase in the pax amount, (and hence reduction in revenue from over weight baggage). Increase in CO2

Operating old inefficient aircraft, and trying to cancel the orders of the efficient replacements. Unnecessarity high CO2

Carrying an FCOM library, 2 to 3 times as heavy as it needs to be because it contains info for the whole fleet. And no one can be bothered directing staff to make them specific to AC. CO2 (not to mention safety issue)

Allowing 3000 'surplus to requirement' staff drive to work. Some only to sign in in their PJ's then go home. (seen it myself) CO2

Many more. To be credible on the 'CO2 bandwagon' you actually have to make some real initutives. Not just make press.

[IFE]

:confused: Reducing CO2 and saving cost? Few examples here:

- 2 separate buses from briefing to the airport for cabin crews and flight deck.
- 2 separate buses from bus gate to aircraft for cabin crews and flight deck.
- leaving the APU on after shutdown instead of external power.
- more wood for office renovation. Walking in the pink palace now feel like walking in the maze.
- and what is the point of putting a wall in the briefing room? (spend money putting it up, later find out that it's not working, then spending more money tearing it down. what a great saving?)

[mkdar]

Segregation wall?:confused:
Transparency policy?:eek:
Covering up indecent exposure?:uhoh:
First came the segregation between rostering and pilots, then between dispatch and pilots, then between cabin crew and pilots, next is a curtain between Capt and F/O ?:D

Now that we have the wall, every thing is going to be just fine, this is the answer to our prayers, gulf air is heading in the right direction, don’t worry lads.

[Skybeds]

next is a curtain between Capt and F/O ?
.. there will be curtains between the pilots and the aircraft!

[SubsonicMortal]

So, how many volunteers for the Regional Jets do we have so far?

8 months ago they were asking for 777 volunteers. Now we're getting asked about the regional jets.

[Skybeds]

0.. most pilots in GF are used to flying the 340, 330s and the 320 series. most pilots would apply for a job in some other airline other than downgrading their profession.

[Panama Jack]

Any idea what the type of regional jet will be? My guess is EMB-190's. Anybody else?

[Che Guevara]

Rumour is initially 2 175s and 2 190s on a trial basis.

I guess the 175s will suit the soon to be announced....Muharraq to Sarr flights initially, with extensions to Sitra on the weekends. :rolleyes:

[bus_aviator]

guys something is very rotten here, what's with the goschtoppel approach from upstairs...and their sh&*% e-mail. Would you like to transfer to a new aircraft?....oh but wait we won't tell you the type, seniority rearrangements...or SALARY. I know Christmas time is around the corner, I want my surprise when I open the present, not when I join a new fleet. To those upstairs...wake up...the Airbus pilots still have options and places to go. Start treating us like grown-ups and we'll probably do the same, turn the cards over and let's see what hand the dealer delt ya.

[Panama Jack]

It is possible, bus_aviator, that this is just a formality so that nobody complains that they weren't asked. Seniority is a double-edged sword. If there are no people requesting it (which would normally be entertained from top seniority downwards), then they would likely start selecting the most junior people (from bottom seniority upwards). For certain, Airbus pilots have options available but I can appreciate that Gulf Air is also trying to run a business. Personally, I prefer to see them advertise and fill these vacancies internally rather than get Direct Entry Captains and FO's and then surplusing Airbus pilots as they become redundant.

But as you said, a lot of details are missing and it will be interesting to learn more as events unfold. Staying tuned!

[bus_aviator]

touk, salary is not the same, if you are shooting a 4 sector, as Che so nicely put it...saar...arad...etc, or doing a long run with a layover...do the math friend. PJ I agree with you but we're not sitting at a poker table as i mentioned earlier, show us the cards ( show me the money :)

[IFE]

Guys, the plan has been working nicely for people upstair.
How many guys left and are leaving ing 2009? It must be 20+.
With uncertainty cloud hanging over GF and all the BS they are flooding into the market, we are seeing mass exodus in 2010.

Heard that EY and QR are coming to the rescue.

[ironbutt57]

From what I've been told, salary and same pay scales apply, your paycheck may vary due the amount of hours/ time away from base may differ. waiting the final verdict..

[Panama Jack]

QR coming "to the Rescue"? That's an ironic way of putting it.

[Mephistopheles]

I really doubt that anyone is going to volunteer to be downgraded & if there are a few around I would recommend that they go for some pyscho test cuz something must be wrong mentally! So guys get ready to be forced onto your new fleet & enjoy doing 6 sector days flying around Saudi Arabia, Iran & Iraq. Suddenly the 320 fleet looks quite exotic.
QRs package seems to have dropped:

Captains


Tax free salary of approximately $9500 USD (assuming 70 block hours).

First Officers


Tax free salary of approximately $6600 USD (assuming 70 block hours).

[767]

captain 15000 fo 10000:ugh:

[Mephistopheles]

767, I guess I should believe you rather than the Qatar Airways site.:ugh::ugh:

Flight Deck Crew Benefits | Qatar Airways (http://www.qatarairways.com/global/en/flightdeck-benefits.html)

That's the new package as I mentioned in my previous post. Everyone can read but not everyone can comprehend.

[Chuck Y]

I always thought there was something odd about the losses that we keep getting told we are making & here is a good example.

According to our management we are expected to post losses of US$500 million for 2009.
Gulf Air expects $500m loss in 2009 - paper - Transportation - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/573189-gulf-air-expects-500m-loss-in-2009---paper)

Then according to IATA the combined losses for the Middle East region are
US$1.2 billion.
Mideast airline losses seen falling to $300m in 2010 - Travel & Hospitality - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/576227-mideast-airline-losses-seen-falling-to-300m-in-2010)

So 41% of the losses in the region are Gulf Air's???

With Emirates having over 130 airplanes, Qatar over 70 & Etihad over 50 it doesn't add up that with just our 32 airplanes that we are in such bad shape??? Also, the losses projected by IATA for the region include a few other carriers as well. One word-STEALING!!!

[Skybeds]

With Emirates having over 130 airplanes, Qatar over 70 & Etihad over 50 it doesn't add up that with just our 32 airplanes that we are in such bad shape??? Also, the losses projected by IATA for the region include a few other carriers as well. One word-STEALING!!!look on the bright side..GF will be the only national airline of the GCC which has a fleet smaller than air arabia and al jazeera.. besides SV..but they have 747s and 777s so that cancels out.

[ironbutt57]

I always look at the bright side, and have every intention of seeing it out, and like my job and my life here, but skybeds, your comments are stupid..ok??

not all of them, but the last one was yes...

[Skybeds]

I always look at the bright side, and have every intention of seeing it out, and like my job and my life here, but skybeds, your comments are stupid..ok??

not all of them, but the last one was yes...ohk but what was so stupid about that??:)

[Mike.Park]

" Government officials could soon be forced to travel on Gulf Air exclusively when going on missions abroad "

Smells like desperation...:bored:

Source: GDN (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=266752)

[ODMEA]

MEA's profits in 2009 to exceed $100 million as company plans new routes - Worldnews.com (http://article.wn.com/view/2009/10/27/MEAs_profits_in_2009_to_exceed_100_million_as_company_plans_/)

That's net profit btw...all with 13 planes! What's GF's problem(and a few other Arab carriers for that matter?)

[IFE]

To whom it may concern,

No matter what turnaround programe you are putting into place, GF will never turn to profit, unless you deal with the corruption and internal fraud.

Sorry, but it is a fact and I am sure you are aware of it. But can you do something about it. Because if you dig real deep, it could go very high up.

You see those new bottles of water with GF logo on it.
Do you know how much catering charge GF for it? Assuming they load and charge GF 500 bottles a day. (If GF use only 300, they take those 200s back, but already charged 500 bottles) :D

[Mephistopheles]

Don't forget the special "Cockpit trash bags" I just wonder which board member is profitting from that.
There is no real attempt by the government to root out the corruption(probably since some of the board are involved) & until that is addressed it is impossible for this company to survive.
Remember the 777 deal did any of the board get censured for that?

[Skybeds]

the airline go anywhere with those corrupted management. the airline should fire 95% of the people from the upper management and replace them....

[40&80]

Look on the bright side... GF jobs are secure as GF is too profitable (for some people)... to be allowed to fail.
If you only knew how profitable an airline can be (for some people)...every state would want one or maybe two!

[Skybeds]

Look on the bright side... GF jobs are secure as GF is too profitable (for some people)... to be allowed to fail.
If you only knew how profitable an airline can be (for some people)...every state would want one or maybe two!
thats my line :=

[Dessert Aviator]

Letter from Nasser trying to steady the ship, 8 Pilot resignations this week, which is anticipated to acelerate as the mushroom factory barrels along.
Majali seems more obsessed with cutting the revenue stream rather than tackling the high level theft and corruption in the Pink Palace.
The decision to axe 1600 employees has to be made public soon and when that happens hold on !!
Rumour has it that Qatar turned away 10 GF Pilot management applicants; they don't want to catch anything nasty from these shores.
Does'nt look like the over 60's will be offered any extentions, but that is apt to change on March 30th:}:}

[Mephistopheles]

Nasty rumor going around that Mr Majali wants to have lower salaries for the embraer flight crews. Don't know how he thinks he will do it but I guess he is trying to save every fils he can without disturbing Jawad & his forty thieves. Still no real reasons made by the management to waste 1 iota of precious time around here.
"It's time to figure out a viable exit strategy gentlemen."

[Skybeds]

well lets hope this plan will actually be good for GF .... finger crossed...but i really doubt that..
the way they could save money is by leaving the golden livery but change the cabins and stuff... the airline could make alot of money by getting rid of the old 320s and let the new ones take over.. as 95% of the delays are caused by the old 320s....
as i said there will be no difference left between Bahrain air and GF right after the airline removes the F class cabins from its fleet

[Duh]

What are the dates for Etihad, Qatar and Emirates to visit BAH for pilot recruitment ?

[Che Guevara]

Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
An' if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know
Should I Stay or should I go?
(The Clash)


Me tienes que desir
Me debo ir o que darme
Esta undecision me molesta

[Apache702]

Did Anybody bid blindly for the "regional jet" how can we do that if we dont know ..aircraft... money ..left seat or right seat .....seniority??? they want us to bid on what ??? please if somebody already bid on this can you give us one reason to do so, thanks

[DesertHawk]

i agree some hard decision for a lot of guys but lets not get ahead of ourselves. The only guy i heard talking about salary decrease for EMB are pilots making assumptions. Now that being said if that is the case GF can kiss their pilots goodbye. They are already losing many and will be even shorter in the near future an announcement like that would decimate the moral and all who are on the fence would be gone. ummmm kinda like when they announced the "lifestyle" package under BN lol!!!

[Skybeds]

Did Anybody bid blindly for the "regional jet" how can we do that if we dont know ..aircraft... money ..left seat or right seat .....seniority??? they want us to bid on what ??? please if somebody already bid on this can you give us one reason to do so, thanks
i dnt wanna bid :(

[Dessert Aviator]

A second tier salary was mooted but rejected outright by operations... no longer up for discussion.

[Noahs Arc]

Dear all,its been along time havent had time to post any threads,anyway my colleages in Gulfair told me recently that alot of Big fleet omani pilots are leaving gulfair estimate figure 25 including F/O from march till september next year.that will cause a dent in scheduling.whats your opinian and final advise for this Guys.as the situation in Gulf air is not very promising especially for the F/Os.

[Duh]

Our recruitment people told me we where going to be getting some GF pilots. None will be DEC, but will go directly RHS for 330 and 320. You'll like it over here much better once you get past the couple of constant complainers.

Should I stay or should I go now. If you gotta ask, your to late. He who waits to decide is last in line :}

Rock the Casbah, "This is the Radio Clash"

[ShirleyNot]

Are you kidding? For an F/O at GF with everyone leaving, the promotion prospects just keep getting better and better. Ok you may end up on the Jungle Jet but as far as upgrade goes, is there any place better to be right now? Incoming......Decs, lets hope not.

[Duh]

Why Shirley your kidding. Even I've heard and seen that there WILL be DEC's and I live across the shallow waters. :}

[DesertHawk]

DUh- u guys make me laugh. everyone know everything. they dont even know what will happen so how do u? anyways we have enought guys for now ready and when guys dont meet requirements they will hire DEC but then they have no choice!

[Skybeds]

basically, nothing much is going on in GF. Its been a long time since we received any communication letter

[T O G A Boy]

I doubt that they will get DECs cause of the upgrades they are doing on to the left seat, but there again thats GF. Never believe a thing until we actually see it

[ironbutt57]

Check your webmail skybeds..:ugh:

[T O G A Boy]

ironbutt do u seriously think skybed is a pilot. with that attitude that u wont touch with a barge pole.. huh
Thank God, i have him along with his alias names, uglyraed etc on my ignore list...
Regarding the DEC.s it was on our mail not long ago that the upgrade program is going as planned and i personally believe it is, cause of the guys i have seen training recently...

[DesertHawk]

ironbutt: looked on my email and yes they have sent some comms....but GF has always lacked in clear communications. When they have a plan on what will happen for the next little while they should comm with us. I mean really comm not just a 2 para letter. exact details on our lives for the next 2-3 years. it is not rocket science and GF has always been very poor at comm with anyone. I expect this will never happen but heres to dreaming!!!:ok:
a few examples on things people need to know;

1. Details on the process to move from 330/340 to 320 or EMB(nu,bers required and timeframe)
2. Upgrade program and if/when will happen on EMB and if required time on type!!!
3. if we will ever get a proper rostering system

i can go on but these are 3 basic things that everyone know!!! i can not imagine that giving us an idea is that difficult. but hey i guess they need to ask AA how to do it as he seems to be the expert at everything!

[Duh]

You can wish and hope and pray and rationalize all you want, and hope what will happen and think what should happen and and and................be the last in line at your next airline. Yea, but I think your right guys. Hold out to the very day and minute. And just keep thinking positive thoughts, that will make it better :rolleyes:

[DesertHawk]

u know for some of us it is not about being at the best or biggest. it is about getting what we want out of life and our LIMITED time we choose to spend ever here. so if GF matches up with our PLAN then why should we leave if we enjoy bahrain??? constructive thoughts and criticism is always a good thing when u either want to make things better or actually understand why u are here. i tottally get why some guys are wanting out but please dont act like everyone needs to accept were all doomed.

[Panama Jack]

:D :D :D DesertHawk :D :D :D

As it is, the following sentiments are common in our industry:

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2009/11/18/quest.pilot.challanges.etihad.cnn?iref=allsearch)

I guess it's integral to human nature. It further explains why, in spite of the poor reputation of the working and living environment at certain airlines in the region, so many pilots continue to be attracted to them (we know which ones I mean).

http://www.bassfishingadvice.com/wp-content/uploads/fishing-lures.jpg

That large fleet of big, new, shiny jets looks sooooo irresistable!

[brassplate]

duh must be one of those guys. only in it to fly new metal.

[ironbutt57]

I guess if you live for your job, then chasing shiny long-haul metal is your thing,if thats your thing, then more power to you..i work so I can enjoy life...size and smell of the metal not that important..yes the comms could be a bit more detailed, I sure as the plan finalizes, operations will be communicating with us further and in more detail..:ok:

[Skybeds]

from what i heard.. GF will basically go all economy class. as some of most of the airline which have the emb have fully Y class configuration. The only J class aircraft will be the 320s and the 5 330s which GF will receive (hopefully)

[ironbutt57]

The 330's and 320 family will comprise the vast majority of the fleet
:ok:

[Skybeds]

The 330's and 320 family will comprise the vast majority of the fleeti hope that your right . i heard that GF would greatly decrease the orders of the 330s. as they said that they would "review" their orders with airbus.in other words reduce number of wide body aircraft from their fleet. And it was clearly stated that the fleet would primarily consist of narrow body aircraft.

[ShirleyNot]

The know what will happen at GF the best thing to do is probably look at Royal Jordanian.

[Skybeds]

The know what will happen at GF the best thing to do is probably look at Royal Jordanian.
:D:D:D:D well said..
from what i know the aviation sector in gulf region had a total loss of 1.3 billion.. surprisingly most of the money lost was from GF.. imagine that the airline with a fleet consisting of 30 aircraft is losing more than the airlines which has 100 plus aircraft.
no plan for GF will be successful until or unless those blood sucking upper management would leave.

[boiler]

surprisingly most of the money lost was from GF

IMHO, QR and EY are also losing, but they do not publish their results as far as I know. So the losses are far greater for the region than what IATA says.

[Panama Jack]

IMHO, QR and EY are also losing, but they do not publish their results as far as I know. So the losses are far greater for the region than what IATA says.

You hit the nail on the head. Even if financial results were published, their accuracy would be questionable because of the numerous combination of ways in which financials can be calculated. GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) do not exist in the region. Generally speaking, there are two reasons why financials are published-- 1) for the stockholders (none in the region-- wholy owned by the Governments) or 2) because the Government taxman requires it (again, not here).

I suspect that the other major airlines (including Emirates) have at least the amount of losses that Gulf Air suffers, the difference being that these governments have deeper pockets and other priorities.

[Skybeds]

ok if December ends without any announcements of the cancellations of the airbus orders, that means that we are getting the 20 330s.from what i know, this is the last month in which GF has a chance to change their orders.

[Panama Jack]

Maybe.

Airlines have a way of selling their aircraft before they are delivered too.

[Noahs Arc]

I just received lattest news they are looking for 14 F/Os and 14 Capts for the first two Embraer the selection at this time is on its way,the type rating will be conducted at Oxford flying school for six weeks,no worries guys there is a chinese take away fried rice for 6 pounds.No command upgrade will be done in this fleet.you volunteer you go still by senority basis.So E.Ts its time to go home.:D

[ironbutt57]

Mmmm didn't see that webmail....interesting...

[Mephistopheles]

Well there still no proper & meaningful communication from Sami & Nasser. Most probably since neither of them know what the hell to say to us. Nasser(& many others) already has his back up plan & of course Sami doesn't give a rats when we go under since he can run back to Jordan with his ill gotten gains. The resignation rate is slowly picking up ut one thing in GFs favor is that most gulf airlines are not giving jobs until the middle to 3rd quarter of 2010. By then I am sure the flood gates will will wide open & the question will not be IF you are leaving but WHEN are you leaving. Also guys do not listen to blind optimism of the instructors since a majority of them have been offered contracts with Mumtalakat/GAAC so they are all sitting pretty safe at the moment & don't want to rock the boat. Guys keep your eyes open for any desent jobs that come up & do not let your misguided feelings of loyalty prevent you from securing you & your families futures. This is of extreme importance since both the chairman of the board & the CEO say this IS the LAST chance for GF-so what happens when it all turns to s***??? Do you really want to gamble & be around to find out??? Good luck all.

[Panama Jack]

Soooo . . . .

Anybody care to guess a date for when we hear something definite about the new "regional jet" aircraft type and numbers?

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00002189.jpg

[Duh]

Great picture of the new livery for the Gulf Air Embraer. Where did you find it?

[Skybeds]

whats wrong with the bombardiers? they look great to... nice picture.. so will this livery be up for the 330s?
the livery looks great on small aircraft. but im not really sure on how would it look like on the wide body jets..
plus the bombardier aircraft looks great..

[Panama Jack]

Here:

Aviation Design - Modified Airliner Photos (http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/)

It is good for some wishful thinking, especially if you like to see what a Boeing 747, 777, 737, A380 or even the Concorde might look like in GF attire.

[ironbutt57]

Bombardiers aka "ski-doo jets" don't look good in the performance/payload dept, as well as cabin comfort..E-jet much better choice..

excepting the "C series"..

[Skybeds]

thanks for the infro iron butt..
nothing is new about the design because looks smiler to the gulf traveller...
It is good for some wishful thinking, especially if you like to see what a Boeing 747, 777, 737, A380 or even the Concorde might look like in GF attire.i dont think it looks good on 747....but it looks great how the 340-600 looks like..

[mutt]

Whats the maximum operating temperature of the CRJ during takeoff/landing?

Mutt

[Skybeds]

wow no body knows what talk about anymore.
but i dont get why the airline wants to change their golden livery.... i understand that they have to change their cabin.. but the livery should wait until the airline starts making some money. By the way the way , tristar looks great with the golden livery ...

[brassplate]

why doesn't gf just move the pilots to the embraer starting with the most junior captains and junior first officers? it would be fair not to make them sign new bonds since that type rating would be next to useless outside sao paulo. it would serve to weed out guys who are unhappy and decide to resign which gf will need to know for crew planning purposes. the void left by them, most lost likely from the 320 fleet, will be filled by those up the seniority list.

[DesertHawk]

noahs arc- just curious how u can get this SOLID news before anyone else? are u sure this is not just speculation

[Dessert Aviator]

I can support the story of the Oxford training, these are factory paid courses.:ok:

[Noahs Arc]

HeHe!! solid news?you forgot the Email was been sent to all to join the new fleet.well those are the extra details.And Gulfair will still have the 5 brand new A330's by 2011 replacing the old ones plus few extra 320s.by the end of next year only 10 wide bodies will be on service then the reduction will continue till 5 wide body,Now guys all this depends on the Economical situation.

[Panama Jack]

'Twas the night before Christmas . . . and no 2010 Vacation Awards out yet. :(

Nonetheless, Merry Christmas to all the Gulf Air boys & girls. :ok:

[RJ900NG]

CRJ 900 ISA+35c

[mutt]

CRJ 900 ISA+35c then they will have problems, this isn't sufficient for the ME....

Mutt

[G-FULL]

Who said GF Is going to get CRJ? They are getting E170/E195 - Delivery is let's just say VERY VERY soon. 4

[surfer of desert]

That is a great news, 10 A330, plus new A320 and new RJ gonna put GF on the right track:D

And the company will still flying to (international) destinations, without lost so many of the good destinations.

cheers

[surely not]

:D :ok: to Touk

[DesertHawk]

just curious ISA +35 doesnt sounds that bad really as we fly in to long runways and very rarely is it ever over 50 degrees. anyways wont happenas CRJ are not as good performace numbers as the embraers and even the office is now saying "embraer"!!!

[Panama Jack]

Unwrapped all my Christmas gifts. Sadly, no 2010 Vacation Schedule from Gulf Air. :sad:

[ironbutt57]

It is the E-jet..since a while back... CRJ hot n high no good, cabin no good, me no like...

[a4mrav8r]

Que lugar, bueno suerte.

[Skybeds]

It is the E-jet..since a while back... CRJ hot n high no good, cabin no good, me no like...
for once.. me agree with you

[ironbutt57]

Its apples to oranges comparison, the E-jet is a purpose designed clean sheet design airliner, the CRJ is a stretched, re-seated, whatever Canadair Challenger corporate jet re-think....not to say the CRJ doesn't work...just not here..( I hope)

[Skybeds]

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
applauds for the passengers who helped to foil an attack on the Detroit bound plane..

[Apache702]

8 resigned this week, and 48 others on the way out soon, and 11-15 capt over 60 not to be renew in april, the exodus has begun once again....

[DesertHawk]

yeah well wait and it will be even more amusing. there plan is to continue upgrades abd SO's on 320 and move guys from 320/330 to EMB. so this mean twice as much taining cause they could not possibly upgrade on the EMB LOL. good for Senior fo's but i feel a serious exodus of capt if they dont get their act toegther. it is amusing how far behind the times we are even with our great training programs..... I mean we can not even get a new type organized so we minimize the training and dont piss everyone off????

[Duh]

I hear it takes a year to upgrade over there. Now, thats either............Scary or Stupid.
-No arguing or disagreeing, those are your only two options !! :}

[DesertHawk]

Duh u are generally correct. from what i have seen from the beginning to end it does take atleast 1 calender year. consists of 2 interviews and line "assessments" and then finally sim. it is a program which they know and have no forethought on change. the guys i have chatted with say the sim training is quite good as i would expect since out sims are not bad. it is odd that we do not reassess as i think we could really improve the product with some productive training for commands not checking!!! anyways for the guys that have gone though or are going through good luck!

[capgemini]

Indeed it was much better before:= guys use to show up at their sim check fully briefed on what to expect ...At least now its official and for everybody :ok:safe flight:oh:

[HakunaMatata]

PJ. Picked up on your Chrissie presents. Aka no leave plan out yet. After years of a well established system that d…f..b…. AA tinkles with it and stuffs it all up. Three attempts and still no plan. He’s also seriously misunderstanding (as is management) crew sentiment with regard to how we feel as pilots on the future of GF. No pilot wants to fly with an airline that is going backwards. He went through the last few months nursing a shortage of crews knowing full well the cut backs that were on the horizon. Events will overtake him. The old GF noninformation will catch up on him and he will fall on his own sword.. Anyway Happy Festive Season all. Management forgot the greeting this year!!

[Mephistopheles]

Get ready for the side splitting season #60 finalé of "GF...a lesson in incompetence" to be held before a live studio audience on Dec 30th. in the pink palace. Rotten eggs & tomatoes will NOT be supplied, so if you are intending to start hurling them, along with suitably offensive insults, please bring your own.

[Skybeds]

Get ready for the side splitting season #60 finalé of "GF...a lesson in incompetence" to be held before a live studio audience on Dec 30th. in the pink palace. Rotten eggs & tomatoes will NOT be supplied, so if you are intending to start hurling them, along with suitably offensive insults, please bring your own.

good one!:D

[brassplate]

gf deserves to be where it is because of it's stupidity. may all the thieves who has benefitted from sucking it's blood live long and prosperously.

[Albergineman]

Get ready for the side splitting season #60 finalé of "GF...a lesson in incompetence" to be held before a live studio audience on Dec 30th. in the pink palace. Rotten eggs & tomatoes will NOT be supplied, so if you are intending to start hurling them, along with suitably offensive insults, please bring your own.


or maybe the shoes!!!

:}

[Skybeds]

i bet the news might be nothing but bad news

[Mahmood Alsitri]

We heard that Gulf Air had canceled an Order of 16 Airbus 330-300

Waiting for a confirmation from the company !

[Mephistopheles]

That's Majali's master plan 4 A330s & the rest A320 & regional, so w can feed passengers to Amm for RJ. If we can't make money for ourselves at least we can help our brotherly Jordanians to make some-since they also have a loss JD23 million for 2008.

[Skybeds]

We heard that Gulf Air had canceled an Order of 16 Airbus 330-300

Waiting for a confirmation from the company ! that majali could of at least reduced the orders to 10.. four is like nothing! even oman air will have a bigger fleet if majali would cancel the orders of the 787s.

[Skybeds]

Please note that Airbus will not lie down quietly if GF cancel their order for 15 A 333s. Either a heavy penalty will be imposed by Airbus as per the contract or they ask GF to exchange it for more A 320 family of aircraft:=
i guess you are right! as i said i guess the 333 orders must be reduced to 10 not 4... or GF could switch the orders from 15 320s and twenty 333s TO twenty 320s and 15 333s

[ironbutt57]

Orders can be deferred, exchanged, whatever, as can present leases...there just are not a whole lot of obstacles to stop the plan once it starts rolling...

[Mike.Park]

Passenger suffers stroke

A Gulf Air flight from Bahrain to Manilla had to make an emergency landing in the capital on Tuesday after a passenger on board suffered a stroke. The woman, Mendoza Natalia, a citizen of Philippines, was offloaded and admitted to Apollo Hospital in the evening. She had taken the flight from Istanbul but enroute, she suffered a stroke.

Source: Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Passenger-suffers-stroke/articleshow/5393609.cms)

[Skybeds]

oh poor woman....

[ddd]

ANOTHER low cost airline that GF will have to compete against as a REGIONAL airline!! ... how will GF survive???

DUBAI - An investment firm in Abu Dhabi plans to launch a low cost airline in 2010, UAE-based Al Khaleej newspaper reports Sunday without saying where it got the information.

The new operator will be the third low cost airline in the United Arab Emirates after Sharjah's Air Arabia and Dubai's Fly Dubai.

The paper quotes unnamed persons in the UAE capital as saying the company is scheduled to start operations by middle of next year. The new company will operate flights from Abu Dhabi's airport, the paper adds.


To keep updated with the very latest news sign up to the Maktoob Business newsletter now.

[Skybeds]

ANOTHER low cost airline that GF will have to compete against as a REGIONAL airline!! ... how will GF survive???

DUBAI - An investment firm in Abu Dhabi plans to launch a low cost airline in 2010, UAE-based Al Khaleej newspaper reports Sunday without saying where it got the information.

The new operator will be the third low cost airline in the United Arab Emirates after Sharjah's Air Arabia and Dubai's Fly Dubai.

The paper quotes unnamed persons in the UAE capital as saying the company is scheduled to start operations by middle of next year. The new company will operate flights from Abu Dhabi's airport, the paper adds.


To keep updated with the very latest news sign up to the Maktoob Business newsletter now.
same thing went in my mind when i found out about this.. thats why im telling every body that GF should forget the domestic rout because they are now being ruled by those low cost carriers... its time to go big because this is the era of survival of the fittest ... its time to aim for the international routs.if GF goes for the regional aircraft. business travelers would surely shift some other airline.. passenger yield from other cities would be low... for example .. if there are like 110 out of 125
( airbus 333s) passengers from london who want to continue their flight to dubai.(lets say ..because there is a huge business project which needs to be taken care off)...how will those small regional aircraft accommodate all of those passengers(from Bahrain to Dubai), its pretty obvious that less than half of them would be able to travel till dubai
hence they wont fly GF to go to dubai.
if bahrain was a big country like oman or KSA, it would be ok for the airline to purchase the regional aircraft ..from my point if the airline wants to have a fleet consisting primarliy of narrow body jets, i say go for 320s.. because they are more reliable. efficient.. and most of the staff are experienced in handling them...so the airline would save more money than switching to the emb.. If the airline is really desperate to save money, the airline should forget about the new livery plan.. at the same time the airline should invest their money in the newer seat and cabin.

[downNOgreens]

You are fool, Skybeds. You flood this forum with some of the stupidest comments I have ever heard and you always seem to want to have the last say with nothing intelligent to contribute whatsoever. I think you will now move to my 'ignore' list.

[brassplate]

totally agree dude! this guy actually reflects the mentality of senior management at gf. every second or third thread is his. he completely hijacks the forum.

[Not Gulfair CEO]

Sky bed stop talking none sense. your irritating and stupid posts must stop. moderator I think its time that ugly raed finds a new title for himself.

[Skybeds]

dont worry. 3 years later .... i would be saying "i told you so"..
im just sharing my views.. and go ahead and put me in your so called "ignore list"..
BTW how does this reflect this "reflect the mentality of the senior management "?

[GF-A330]

A9C-AE currently in Manchester for paint direct from Hamburg. Can anyone please confirm whether these new GF A320s have PTVs in Y class.

http://tasreports.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/a9c-ae.jpg?w=562&h=300

http://inforpaint.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/a9c-ae-outside.jpg

[Sal-e]

Any word on the meeting last night chaps?