Gulf Air Developments

[SkyDive6]

You can also consider Amwaj Islands (8 km. from the airport) or BudayaBudaiya for a Pilot!! Its a no-no. What will happen if you have early flight on week day???? Driving from Budaiya to the airport between these times 07:00 AM to 10:30 AM is terrifying, and the traffic is soooo bad, I really suggest to take bicycle if you intend to go to Budaiya, you'll reach your plane much faster!!

[SubsonicMortal]

Hang on a sec, is GF employing foreign pilots again?

[Sultan85]

duhhh !!! :}

[Da Do Ron Ron]

Al Safir Hotel = Usual Juffair Whore House :)

[SandShovel]

Has GF started to recruit expats again????:}

[behramjee]

not joining as a pilot...sorry to not clarify that...am joining the Route Network Planning Department :ok:

I have been to BAH 4 times in the past 2 years for work...stayed at Gulf Hotel, Golden Tulip and the Novotel Al Thana Resort. Favorite amongst these was the Gulf Hotel without a doubt:)

For banking purposes, I'm going to stick with HSBC as they have a solid worldwide reputation so am more comfortable dealing with them...what do you all think:confused:

BA tkt is now confirmed and am looking fwd to it as its my first long haul trip with them. B 777-200ER YYZ-LHR and then after a nice 4 hour transit at LHR, taking a B 747-400 LHR-BAH. Flying in World Traveller Plus (Premium Economy) cabin.

I suggest you to invest 1 BD and buy the local newspaper Gulf Daily where you can find plenty informations about real estate. There are few canadians in Gulf Air and I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy The Kingdom.I have already short listed 5 condos in Juffair area from this website:

Apartments in Bahrain,Bahrain flat rental,villas and homes (http://www.clarionbahrain.com/flats.php?page=1)

[Red max]

behramjee , Regarding HSBC avoid like the fn plague!! im telling you from personal experience and there is a thread somewhere around pprune about them . for example their net banking never worked for me and when it did i couldn't transfer funds to my other accounts in different banks, because the muppet that opened my account forgot to tell me that i have to fill a form.... long stroy short they make it difficult for you to get your own money.

[RoosterChange]

the housing department in GF that can be helpfulThings must be getting better at GF!:E

[SandShovel]

HSBC is crap, as any other bank in BAH, you will see the difference from the rest of the world.
For housing you can search here: expatriates.com - Bahrain (http://www.expatriates.com/classifieds/bhr/)

All the best, and welcome to the sandbox.

[behramjee]

yeah well what to do...at least it provides me with convenience as its situated in other cities of the world where my family and myself are based which makes a good "family bank" lol ...plus its worldwide brand name and recognition is un-matched.

if u and others dont suggest HSBC in BAH, then what do you recommend instead?

Btw fyi...from Oct 31st, Lufthansa increases FRA-BAH from a daily B 738BBJ to a daily A 343 + SAS increases DXB from 3 to 5 weekly nonstop A 343s for Winter 2010 + WY launch MCT-KTM 4 weekly B 738s from Sept 2nd.

[ironbutt57]

I use HSBC, once the initial hiccups associated with opening the account...(ask specifically for the inet/phone banking form) things run smoothly, there was a headache getting PIN numbers for cards, but that was attributed to the changeover to the new chip implanted cards, they were replacing EVERYBODY'S cards over the new year..online works great, never go to the branch for anything..Bank Muscat in the GF HQ is terribly slow at everything...the rst I dont know welcome to the desert!!

[Duh]

Al SAFIR. During the Saudis weekend(Thur-Fri) they move in. Along with a substantial number of hookers. They drive over from SA via the causway. Its a very seedy and disgusting hotel.

[SkyDive6]

It is much better to go with one of these Banks instead of HSBC. Keep HSBC for International transactions and local bank for daily transactions!

1. National Bank of Bahrain National Bank of Bahrain - Home (http://www.nbbonline.com) : has the largest number of Branches and ATMs in Bahrain.
2. Bank of Bahrain and Kuwait www.bbkonline.com : the second in the largest number of Branches and ATMs in Bahrain. (i have an account here at the moment, aand thinking of going to BisB very soon)
3. Bahrain Islamic Bank Welcome to BisB | Bahrain Islamic Bank | Retail Banking | Corporate Banking | Tasheel | Auto Finance | Property Finance | Tejoori | SME | Trade Financing | Priority Banking (http://www.bisb.com) : the third in the list of the largest number of branches and their services look very good.
4. Ahli United Bank I would say it is in the same rank of BBK.

[Red max]

" Keep HSBC for International transactions and local bank for daily transactions!" I agree with SkyDive6 , NBB is pretty good i never had problems with them. regarding housing avoid getting a house or an apartment near mosques or any religious houses or whatever they are called it gets pretty noisey believe me , same goes for places infested with saudi/hookers .Best of luck!!

[SkyDive6]

regarding housing avoid getting a house or an apartment near mosques or any religious houses or whatever they are called it gets pretty noisey believe me , same goes for places infested with saudi/hookers .Best of luck!!

If such place exists it would not be Bahrain!

[behramjee]

oh yes not planning on getting a condo near any noisy establishment.

btw since we have ordered 24 B 788s, this article on Vietnam Airlines switching its entire order from B 788s to B 789s and the reasons for it should interest u guys!

Vietnam Airlines switches 787 order to -9s-24/06/2010-Flightglobal.com (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/06/24/343611/vietnam-airlines-switches-787-order-to-9s.html)

also Im sure by now everyone has heard that QR is launching NCE, HAN, BUD, Bucharest. Qatar Airways announces six new routes | Aviation | AMEinfo.com (http://www.ameinfo.com/235903.html)

lastly, I have been writing a weekly airline newsletter for 9 years now concentrating mainly on long haul route network changes of airlines worldwide + their major aircraft orders and then I analyze it from a third party's perspective. 464 people get my email worldwide so if you're interested email me [email protected] and I shall add you to the list as well as send you the last 2 weeks worth of news and my old reports made on QR to ORD, AI IAD problems, AI long haul restructuring proposal etc etc.

[SandShovel]

If such place exists it would not be Bahrain!

There is such place, it is called Amwaj. ;)

[boiler]

btw since we have ordered 24 B 788s

You're pretty naive if you think it will keep even half that order after what the CEO is planning to do to GF with his new regional strategy.

[bus_aviator]

I've noticed most pilot talk has dissapeared off this link, is it the world cup or are we just too depressed to give a S&%&.... is there a new link floating around concerned with the flying stuff related to GF and the region like EK is hiring 700 p's most likely entry on the 777 (so rumor says)...EK looking for 250 next year another 10 spots for this year (Etihad now has to be taken seriously (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/06/29/343647/etihad-now-has-to-be-taken-seriously.html)), air arabia is expanding into jordan etc etc. Nothing personal with the non flying peeps on this page...but come on realestate and the banking situation in bahrain who cares? Anyway keep it real...and keep gossiping ladies :E

[brassplate]

there will never be peace and harmony in gf. why? because of the local factor. as they continue bahrainising all gf positions, the company will parallel what happens in everyday bahrain....sunni/shiite issues, nepotism, mafias, factions, thieving, backstabbing, kickbacks, favouritism, all manner of corruption....same shiez different day. the way gf is heading, they will be another iran air....or worse, aseman.

[jackx123]

Does anyone know what happened to the boeings, or where they ended up:eek:

[Sultan85]

I think 2 or 3 767s parked out of BAH.:*

[Iver]

How many Gulf Air pilots have moved over to EK lately? If you want long-haul, big-iron flying, I guess EK should be your target...

[jackx123]

The reason why they were taken off line duty was excessive corrosion and I believe around the toilet area..........:}

The question is if someone else is flying them now, which might be a wee dangerous :uhoh:

[Panama Jack]

I've noticed most pilot talk has dissapeared off this link, is it the world cup or are we just too depressed to give a S&%&....

I think that it is just that most pilots have better things to do. From my personal observation, the topics and dialogue have been dominated by the same, bitter, unhappy people with topics generally being negative and often, as time reveals, untrue. Many of the posts don't even warrant comment and besides, who wants to spend their "off" hours with pathologically sad, frustrated people?

So for me, and I imagine others, there are much better things to do. I have become bored with this thread.

[Albergineman]

Spot on Panama Jack!

Why not discuss about RCFP and its misunderstandings, warning letters and diversion festival? Who's gonna start?

Food for thought...

Good luck all!

:ok:

[MikeAlpha7]

This news might not interest the flight crew , but it shows the continual trend of corruptions and spiral dive of Gulf Air lead by no other than the CEO himself.

Apparently , quite a few management personnel have been against the Embraer deal and questioned the value and productivity of this type for GF. The CEO does not exactly like such line of questioning and considers it a challenge to his authority. Two of those who are at the front-line of the opposition , the man in charge of aircraft acquisition & leasing and a Senior Finance manager opposing this deal have been given an ultimatum, take the VRS or get sacked. Both elected the latter and should be leaving within days.

But the real comedy cum tragedy is the tale of person who is going to take over the critical task of aircraft acquisition & leasing department. He is no other than that person who builds little model airplanes and has made a huge profit for himself. This man is one of the most skillful a** lickers GF has known in the modern time. A person with ill-repute who has survived being sacked by two out of the last three PCE's for being non-productive ( in another word , corrupt). His resume has "I know a lot of Sheikhs" written all over it. Apparently , he has been seen in the company of Majali in recent weeks.

It does not take Einstein to figure out that Gulf Air days are numbered , however , one would think that a guy like Majali will at least try to prolong its existence by skilful use of the resources ( something that GF have failed to do for decades).
It is not the case......Same old story , same old corruption.

NOW...enjoy the World Cup.

[Sal-e]

What/who are coming or going?

a) E-Jets
b) CEO
c) Big planes
d) Pilots
e) going a) and b)
d) going a), b) and d)
e) all of the above
f) none of the above

[T O G A Boy]

Another joke for the book

[DesertHawk]

Panama is so right!:D seems everyone just wants to complain about new ceo and thigs we can not do anything about. if we want to make things better letw discuss how to open communications lines and improve the safety of our daily operations gents:)

[767]

Its snowing today,then we can all go skiing later:p

[boiler]

behramjee seems to be MIA since he joined GF Route Network Planning Department.

[behramjee]

nopes am just here in BAH...moved into a 2 bedroom apartment in Juffair.

i have a cell now here so if anyone wants to get in touch, private msg me or email [email protected]

[Mephistopheles]

So TRV will very shortly be axed but don't worry ladies & gentlemen our CEO is still committed to growth at GF with a number of Embraer friendly routes to be announced soon.

[Panama Jack]

Sounds like some people (7 pax and 3 cabin crew) got badly hurt the day before yesterday on KG on the way to Manila. :sad:

Hope nobody suffered any serious lasting injuries.

Accident: Gulf Air A332 over Vietnam on Jul 13th 2010, turbulence injures 10 (http://avherald.com/h?article=42e3c6a5&opt=0)

[samjetblaster]

What is happening to poor GF?:confused:

[Albergineman]

Sounds like some people (7 pax and 3 cabin crew) got badly hurt the day before yesterday on KG on the way to Manila. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/puppy_dog_eyes.gifIt seems that after several WX deviation along the way from India to Vietnam they were in some way "short of fuel" due to the new fuel policy using reduced contingency fuel. They were near the decision point, likely at the minimum required fuel to continue to MNL and consequently "narrowing" the weather deviation to avoid a diversion after a long night flight from BAH, delaying the flight for another three hours, going in to discretion and all the things we know about a diversion.

Could be also just a mismanagement of WX radar and lack of communication among the crew in order to prepare the cabin for turbulence...

Regrettable indeed

:{

[Panama Jack]

It is difficult (and inappropriate) to comment about the particulars of this incident as I don't know anything about it other than what I have read in the newspaper.

It is worthwhile to remember that most airlines with any significant amount of flight operations have severe turbulence encounters from time to time during which crews and passengers unfortunately suffer injuries and sometimes even death. The real problem is that turbulence areas, strength and duration are nearly impossible to forecast, especially for flight deck crews. I don't know whether the aircraft was in IMC at the time or whether the radar plays a factor, but it is valid to keep in mind that CAT is a major hazard to.

I recall reading around this season last year of two separate severe turbulence encounters in the same area (over the South China Sea, in fact) involving a China Airlines 747 and some other carrier. In both incidents, there were injuries to passengers and crew.

Besides the challenge of us on the flight deck forecasting the strength and location of turbulence, another problem is that cabin crews and passengers have become jaded to the seat belt sign going on during flight or do not appreciate the potential consequences. Most passengers and crews have (fortunately) never personally experienced the wrath of severe or extreme turbulence.

But some of this attitude towards the seatbelt is conditioned. How many crews have you flown with who either forget to turn the seat belt sign off or just leave it on for hours, exceeding personal physiological limitations of passengers who after a while just have to head to the toilet? Soon afterwards the sign becomes meaningless. I know the sign also becomes a losing battle for those on the flight deck. Seemingly, as soon as we turn the sign on the air becomes smooth, and as soon as we turn it off it becomes bumpy again.

In any case, the original intent of the message was to express concern for our colleagues and passengers with the hopes that those hurt will make a quick and full recovery. There is definately room for technology to improve the tools we have to work with to provide accurate, real-time forecasts of turbulence.

[40&80]

As a Gf pilot if an area of Cat on or very near our intended route was illustrated on the weather map the seat belt sign was ON and the cabin crew briefed accordingly.
This was thought relevant after a Thia Airways Captain was arrested put in jail in Turkey, found guilty sentenced and his pension fund said to be around £75000 seized to get him released from jail and back to Bkk.
A British business class passenger was so severely injured in severe turbulence that a landing had to be made in Istanbul.
The seat belt signs were off with Cat indicated on the weather chart so the judge said he was guilty.
The signs were off as the flight conditions were smooth with no weather activity observed visually or on the radar.
This trial was observed by a Balpa representative and reported pretty much as above in their magazine.

[DesertHawk]

are u seriously comparing operating in the US to the middle east and asia? not sure if u have ever operated over there but the conditions are much different with an ils and 7000ft runway about every 20 miles:) the rcfp is not to blacme for everything but why are we using them on damascus turns. this is not bright.:ok:

[Panama Jack]

40&80. Your example of the Thai Airways Captain is an interesting one and I am not certain whether it reflects the draconian (or even corrupt) nature of the Turkish or Thai legal system, but it is also reflective of the more widely “the unknown laws” of some of the countries we overfly.

I remember reading sometime in the 80’s or 90’s in the US Airline Pilot Association (ALPA)’s magazine “Airline Pilot” an article which begged the question “is an accident a crime?” This is based on the fact that a crew facing an accident or incident in a foreign country may be subject to quite different proceedings than what they are used to in their home country. For example, a US crew in the USA is free to leave the scene of the accident after completing their duties and doing all they can to save the passengers. At the time, if the same crew would have had an accident in France they would be incarcerated until the facts had been established and resolved. This is one of the additional hazards faced by international flight crews.

What are the legal unknowns that await a crew facing an emergency, taking a prudent decision to divert to, say, Yangon or Mandalay, and running off the end of the runway? Or, as in your example, having a severe turbulence encounter while on descent into Khartoum resulting the severe injury or even death of passengers or crew?

[B4MJ]

40&80;

Do you know if the BALPA article regarding the Turkish trial is available online?

[samjetblaster]

BIG DEAL!!!!!!!:ugh:

[OBBI_Express]

NATIONAL carrier Gulf Air yesterday announced the launch of new flights to Yemen and Sri Lanka.
It will launch its new service to Aden in September, before re-commencing flights to Colombo in October.
Four weekly flights will take place between Bahrain and Aden via Sana'a, while five will take off to Colombo.

[Mike.Park]

Shattered cockpit window forces Gulf Air diversion
by ASC Staff on Jul 21, 2010

A Gulf Air plane made an emergency landing in Beirut late on Tuesday evening after the glass in the right side window of the cockpit shattered, Lebanon's National News Agency (NNA) reported.

The captain of the plane, which was en route from Athens to Bahrain, asked Beirut air traffic control chiefs for permission to make an emergency at the Beirut Rafik Hariri International Airport, the agency said.

Gulf Air flight number 042, which was carrying 101 passengers, landed safely at the 9.43pm, it added.

The Airbus 319 plane was at 36,000ft elevation when its captain decided to make the emergency landing, according to NNA.

Source: ASC (http://www.arabiansupplychain.com/article-4600-shattered-cockpit-window-forces-gulf-air-diversion/)

[Icarus]

Columbo on the 320 - again! I guess they will also be selling every seat knowing damn well they can't take a full load - more left behind bags, more complaints.

[brassplate]

i don't care if anyone says that this could have happened to any other airline...because it happened to gulf air!!!!
why can't this airline do anything right???? because it is incapable of doing anything right!!!
when an airline like this constantly continues to jump out of the proverbial pot into the fire, you gotta wonder. what the hell is wrong with gf? let me compile a list. this will not necessarily contribute to the cracked windscreen but like i said, i really don't care, because gf continues to self-destruct/implode, with or without this incident. feel free to add.
1. ill treatment of ALL staff except self-important managers.
2. corrupt managers
3. incompetent commercial planners
4. overworked pilots and engineers
5. zero incentive anywhere, especially with flying crews. callouts a complete joke.
6. finally, gf is as selfish as they come. demanding everyone's life and soul and gives NOTHING of any value back...thinking that remunerating staff is reason enough to treat them like cr@p.

[DesertHawk]

Now now.....Brassplate u need to chill. Seriously do the decisions that our managment make really bother u so much u spend hours up at night? Serious we had a window crack big deal!!! **** happens in aviation, to us and others!! My previous airline had much worse window crack and no one cried about it. As far as imcompetence goes ur right but chill, take ur pay check have a beer or if it bothers u that much apply to management or leave cause i guarantee u are not gonna change anything by complaining on PPRUNE:):ok:

[Airmann]

Hey guys, I've been reading this forum for a while now but have not been inclined to add my two cents until right now. Some people here are going a little overboard with the accusations of this airline, people really need to calm down and not get so over excited with insignificant news. A cracked windshield can happen to anyone at anytime, it is certainly not an indication of an airlines health, if anything the manufacturer should be questioned. Whatever may be said about management i know for a fact, from pilots, that Gulf Air's pilot and cabin crew training is right up there and they handle these situations well.

I have lived in Bahrain for a long time and I know that with very little to do around the island gossip is everyone's favorite pastime, but just remember that you hear only about Gulf Air's mishaps in the GDN/Tribune/Arabic papers because its the national airline, if they were to report on technical/passenger/flight issues of all the airlines around the world they would need another paper altogether. I know for a fact, that a plane somewhere in the world (almost everyday) will blow a tire, lose an engine, have an electrical failure, even run off the end of a runway somewhere (albeit not too far off and with no casualties), etc. because that is just how it goes.

Its understandable that the frustration is getting to people but I wonder how many of you are also spreading your doomsday message other places as well. Let me just say one thing; people will not listen to fanatics who predict doom and gloom, on the other hand a well constructed argument with salient points, delivered properly will get listeners. It seems that the traffic on this thread has slowed down because no one really has anything left to say, all the issues have been beaten to death, but please for the sake of the airline, you shouldn't be bad mouthing this airline outside of closed circles and especially not to potential customers, because a lot of people enjoy the service they get on GF, and for those who don't hopefully it will get better. I know that there are A LOT of issues to contribute to bad staff morale but I wonder how much could be attributed to negative rumors and gossip which staff, especially new and junior ones, have to listen to non stop and I wonder what it does to their confidence and performance levels? But hopefully it will get better, because I doubt this country will continue to bleed money into this airline but I also doubt they would let it die.

[Mike.Park]

a well constructed argument with salient points, delivered properly will get listeners.

Nah mate - I think most people on here just want a relatively safe and anonymous platform to vent :ok:

[WELCO]

Airmann,

Couldn't agree more. But hey, you've got to know that rumours, negativity, doom and gloom predictions may all be dusted away only if we are involved in factual developments and clearly acknowledged of decisions and allowed to contribute to the decision making process, at least when it comes to issues concerning us and our future. I assume that most of us here are not asking for too much really. Let it be the least a transparent organization and see how different could things be.

Probably the management needs a similar post like that one of yours but with a slightly different wording.


Good luck.

[Airmann]

Thanks for the responses, they are exactly the same points brought up before, again the forum has come full circle, it has happened before, here is my reply:

Mike.Park: You are right mate, for some people this is their only outlet. Here is the problem though: coming to a safe, and anonymous place to vent does not put out the source of the frustration, it is a temporary fix and a lost cause so long as ideas and opinions (and in some part down right facts) stay in peoples heads and on pprune forums. It only goes so far, and then we all hit a brick wall because for the most part people cannot take their their frustrations, ideas opinions and have them heard out in the real world.

That being said, for those of you on this forum who simply want a place to vent and don't really care at the end of the day I'm certainly not going to be the one to stand in your way. ya it seems that life is hard enough as it is working in gulf air, and you do have a right to a place like this to get your frustrations out. Respect.

For the rest, Gulf Air is an airline steeped in history that has been hijacked. The Hijackers try to keep people down and certainly don't want your opinions to be heard. It seems that they are sandwiched between upper management and the general workforce, but then that is where the real power has always come from. An individual who tries to speak up will be crushed quicly

It will take nothing less than an army of people, who position themselves perfectly within the company and in Bahraini society in order to change the general flow of things. I'm just surprised that no one from the Bahraini elite has taken more action especially the way this company is bleeding their bank accounts, maybe they are the ones the frustrations should be revealed to, do they know whats going on or are the hijackers keeping them in the dark? Either way something will have to give, because I doubt this course can continue.

When did Gulf Air become an Epic Greek Tragedy?

[40&80]

IMHO...It all started to roll downhill in August1976...
When "New Sign or Resign" contracts were forced down the throats of happy and hard working Gulf Air expat.staff.

August 1976...When the Pilot Association (Union) was terminated and management and technical crews and engineering staff thus never got to communicate ever again.

I recall hearing "Pilot input is neither necessary, desired or required!"from the same operations manager (British) that pushed the "New Contracts" through.

August 1976..When the expats. pilots "Provident Fund (Pension fund) was closed" and pilots and company no longer were required to contribute to it.

August 1976...When a memo....
To Gulf Air expat. F/o pilots stated "All future Captains would be Gulf nationals"
If none were available BA or Cathay retired at 55y would be hired on 5year contracts.
Some were at 12year Captain pay increment.
This boosted BA index linked UK pensions with inflation at 14% to 22% a year.
This managed to upset nearly all the Gulf Air pilots..Captains and F/os.

I think around 80% of the expat F/Os resigned in two years after reading that memo.
So if that was managements intentions... that bit worked..however there do still seem to be some expat Captains around even after 34 years.

I feel with better management... Gulf Air... if they had managed to honour terms and conditions in expat. contracts... and also shown Zero tolerance to corruption in the many and various departments.... the present Gulf Air would easily now be bigger and more profitable and a better company to work for than EK.

So for me.... Gulf Air started to die and go down hill with the new "Sign or Resign" contracts in 1976.

From that point onwards my trust and respect and enthusiasm also slowly died. I saw what I considered mistake after mistake made leading to the dreadful A320 incident in August 2000....then that era and poison that started it all in 1976 was finally over.
Over in the way many of us thought it would... but hoped it would not.
Thankfully as I was retired at 60 in May 2000 so I was not there to witness the effect this crash had on the community and Gulf Air staff.

A Brand New era has began....several new management teams have already passed through...hopefully it will be better this time and lessons have been learned and it will not be allowed to happen all over again.

[T O G A Boy]

Great post 40&80. But rest assured, lessons are still not learnt. Corruptions have emerged sky high albiet people are more aware of them today than they were years ago. Its more in the obvious side and the most regretful part is that nothing is done about it and we are all witnessing the slow sinking of GF. Lost a lot of good people to other airlines, lost a lot of loyal passengers due to our " highly renovated cabins with the top of the range entertainment systems ". Our neighbouring airlines are just preying on our passengers and no doubt they are winning by offering them better facilities and more important lower fares.

[thegypsy]

40&80

Guess you are referring to Bruce S****** in 1976 the British Ops Manager.

Guess you stayed in GF to the bitter end whilst a lot of us saw the light by
95/96 when a mass exodus of Captains left mostly to SIA, in my case as I thought GF was in its final death throes, through corruption and the inability of the four owner countries to agree anything.

[slowjet]

Great Post, 40&80. Gypsy's comments, too, full on.

Just had a much promised and finally executed beer with a chum of mine, forced out last year and would have joined the cull this year, anyway. He was told ,upon joining by Dick Hughes (Crew Control) that Gf was "not a proper Airline, rather, a flying club and should be treated as such. Good bunch of guys, bit of a laugh, reasonably happy flying". Once you started thinking that it was a proper airline, properly structured, talented management etc, you were doomed.

My mate discovered exactly why the pocket of funding was limitless. Those opportunties can be funded through other channels and keeping GF afloat is no longer necessary. The corrupt know that too, have lined, or are lining personal pockets quickly before running away too.

What a damned shame.

I remember sitting in a charter jet,hold point at LHR, when a mighty GF VC10 greased, turned off and headed for the gates. My skipper said to me "THAT is THE Airline to try to get into" ! No longer, and what a tradgedy.

Good luck to all still stuck there. Remember, you are "Commercial Pilots". You do this for Hire or Reward. It matters not what is painted on the side of a plane. Be loyal only to your Licence. Once you see the light (and it must be dimming ,even for the blinkerred), leave & take your professionalism elsewhere.

[budgetbudgie]

So....when is THE pilot meeting???:confused:

[samjetblaster]

What for???:ugh:

[Panama Jack]

I remember sitting in a charter jet,hold point at LHR, when a mighty GF VC10 greased, turned off and headed for the gates. My skipper said to me "THAT is THE Airline to try to get into" ! No longer, and what a tradgedy.

You are comparing the modern airline industry to the industry as it looked in the late 1970's? :confused:

- Fair enough. The airline I grew up wanting to fly for does exist anymore (hasn't in about 2 decades).
- I dreamed of flying a Boeing 727 or a 747. If this were to happen now, I know I would be pretty down on my career fortune (cause it would probably be at night cargo operations out of sub-Saharan Africa)
- Lufthansa pilots complain that things aren't what they used to be like
- Cathay Pacific pilots complain that they are on the "B" scale or "C" scale
- Former Pan Am employees' eyes glaze over when they speak of the memory of their airline
- US airline pilots speak about the rape & pillage of their pension plans
- Other state-owned airline employees tell delightful tales of 7 day lay-overs in Tokyo, Sydney, Rome or Curacao years ago while the stews fought over which pilot they get to sleep with.
- An old Aer Lingus Captain muses during his retirement party that, back when he started in aviation, sex was safe and flying was dangerous.
- Kids who dreamed of flying a Jumbo Jet or the Concorde for British Airways are applying to Ryanair or Easy Jet.

"Caveat Emptor" warnings abound on this Forum, as well as others, about the risks of joining Royal Brunei, Singapore Airlines, Emirates or Qatar Airways. Even the corporate world does not necessarily imply that you are on the golf course in Hawaii for 14 days while the boss is on his yacht or deep-sea fishing.

[slowjet]

Ouch. That's me told. Good summize though, PJ, and very true.Looks like it has been, pretty much down hill. Glad I had the best. What a shame that the new entrants' expectations are unlikely to be fulfilled, then !

This forum, though, is about GF and it is still disappointing to note a particularly sad demise as so many pilots seemed to have, genuinely, enjoyed time spent there.

[ironbutt57]

I genuinely enjoy my time here, you just have to put things into perspective...in comparison to the rest of the industry as a whole world wide, it is a disappointing trend to say the least, but better then many alternatives...

[WELCO]

Same here.. & I guess that's why this thread does exist at first place.. But it should not be for whiners though!

[ManaAdaSystem]

Gulf Air is the first airline in the GCC to come up with such a recruitment drive designed for nationals.

I don't think so.

[Arabian Mustang]

The girls look really beautiful in the gulf air uniforms...:ok:

[behramjee]

hello,

yes ADD is to be operated 5 times per week using an A 320 where as BSR is 4 weekly using an E70 and IFN is 3 weekly with an E70.

ADD should do well loads wise due to lack of competition + high O&D + huge Ethiopian community in GCC/Saudia.

Official announcement here:

Media Center |About Gulf Air|Gulf Air (http://www.gulfair.com/English/aboutgulfair/Pages/News.aspx?newsno=181)

[Sal-e]

I agree with IB57 here. It took me a while to decide on bringing the family here but now that they're here, they love it, I love it, and it's as good as you make it. Coming up to my fourth year, I have to say it just keeps getting better as you get better at assimilating and adapting.
The airline itself has had to make necessary reforms to remain viable. Nevertheless, they still look after the pilots, the work environment amongst the flying peers is close knit, professional and friendly. So I have no complaints. Bahrain is not for everybody, GF is not for everybody, but I like it and more importantly, my family likes it. It's not as good as home country, but home is where the family is.

[767]

Take your medication:}

[jackbauer]

EK are there daily with 777 or 345.

[left_to_first_class]

Ummm....

DXB-ADD: daily EK, daily ET + 3 extra d467 all widebodies

BAH-ADD: ET 4pw direct + 2pw via KWI

Can't see how the above means "lack of competition"

[Mephistopheles]

How sad that we are reduced to trying to find markets that no other large carriers operate & Mr M has the nerve to call it "finding a niche market". How about being straight up & saying that we will only operate to tiny flea bitten destinations that no other operators can be bothered with?
Meanwhile, Mr M is enjoing sitting in his yacht at the Ritz & laughing every month when BD40000 is deposited in his bank account.

[Sal-e]

What would you have him do? Squander away Bahrain's meagre resources as GF competes against the Jones's next door? I do not support the guy but GF simply afford that direction.

[behramjee]

Ummm....

DXB-ADD: daily EK, daily ET + 3 extra d467 all widebodies

BAH-ADD: ET 4pw direct + 2pw via KWI

Can't see how the above means "lack of competition"

ET operate 5 times per week BAH-ADD with 3 weekly nonstop + 2 via KWI

Where as EK operate a daily 3 class B 77W only.

Compare the competition level at ADD versus NBO and you will see what I mean by 'lack of competition'. In ADD, there is no QR/EY/KU/WY.

Basra offers very high yield mind you:ok:

[Mephistopheles]

Sal-e, it is fairly obvious that Bahrain does not have the same funds available as the boys next door but don't you think that with ,the soon to be announced, purchase of 10 Embraers is not another drain on Bahrain's resources?
As to our wonderful new destinations, believe me once traffic picks up or EK/EY/QR have nowhere to park their aircraft they will start operating into our "niche" destinations & as usual we will not compete but just pull out.
There really is no way fowards for GF except to become low cost carrier & thats the bottom line. Time for the kids in charge to face up to the facts.

[Dessert Aviator]

Why is it that company revenue has not been "revealed" ?? could it be that a gross percentage is skimmed off the top before going to balance the operational costs !! Hey presto GF lost US$500 million last year.... How the hell !!
Cathay made a US$810 million profit in the first six months of this year... if GF flew around it's tin pot route structure with the jettison open it could still not lose such a vast amount :mad: Somebody is really ripping the ring out of the finances..

[running rabbit]

Gulf Air technical problems on Abu Dhabi flight

by Robeel Haq on Aug 10, 2010








Gulf Air has confirmed a technical malfunction onboard one of its Embraer ERJ-170s during a flight from Abu Dhabi to Bahrain at the beginning of this month.
The incident occurred during the approach into Bahrain International Airport on 1st August 2010.
“The captain took the precautionary measure of shutting down one engine and requesting a priority landing. The aircraft landed safely, taxied to its stand and the passengers disembarked normally,” a Gulf Air spokesperson told ArabianSupplyChain.com.
“The safety of its passengers and crew is Gulf Air’s number one priority, pilots are trained to international aviation standards and requirements and regularly undergo training simulating such situations. At no point was there any safety risk to passengers, aircraft are designed and loaded to fly on one engine if required.”
:rolleyes:

[Che Guevara]

aircraft are designed and loaded to fly on one engine if required

Well, lets just fly on one then, great way to cut costs...:rolleyes:

[repapips]

Well, lets just fly on one then, great way to cut costs...

...while we're at it, let's fly with one pilot too, sure way to cut costs...

[Mephistopheles]

It's not the first engine shutdown on the Embraer but the CEO has asked the relevant depts to keep all Embraer tech issues as quiet as possible in order to improve his chances of getting the board of his side & a nice commission when the a/c order is finally signed.

[T O G A Boy]

Absolute daylight robbery. I just hope that they would wake up eventually and realise that it's all a mistake by introducing Embraer to the fleet. As long as the money is passed under the table, well then, lets live in denial

[behramjee]

FYI, Emirates have officially announced LAX and IAH flights increased to double daily nonstop B 777-200LRs effective Oct 31st 2010.

Where as SYD is reduced from triple to double daily services i.e. daily nonstop A 380 + daily B 77W via BKK.

[boiler]

Shouldn't the EK news be in the EK developmet thread??:confused:

[DesertHawk]

FYI this was the first actual shutdown on the EMB fleet. THAT IS A FACT. there has been some high vib issues which required some air turn back. The fact we have these aircraft and if they are suitable is one thing but constant slandering of an aircraft that flys all over the world with many legacy carriers is getting comical. From memory I can remember 2 320 shutdowns in the past year and no one wants to complain about that. Facts is when u fly aircraft sometimes things happen. Thats why we are there. I think.

[Sultan85]

:}hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaa:ugh:

nice one:=

[rumrunner69]

The engines are GE , the same ones that are used on the A10 "Warthog" with a fifty year history under war time conditions:=

[mutt]

As long as the money is passed under the table, well then, lets live in deni Considering the insignificant cost of the the E170, I would have thought that if the goal was to get a nice envelope, then it would make more sense to order expensive aircraft :):)

Mutt

[brassplate]

Facts is when u fly aircraft sometimes things happen.

what bollock!!!!!!
only in gf, it happens a lot more often.

[WELCO]

if the goal was to get a nice envelope, then it would make more sense to order expensive aircraft

You are right. But if you want to extend the robbery life cycle and make it more subtle, then expensive aircraft won't be ideal for GF case. Having said that, I reckon that Mr. CEO was/is basically unable to identify key malfunctions in the company!

[brassplate]

old news...GF FULL OF THIEVES

[Albergineman]

Do you remember that B. N. program asking for "ideas" amidst employees on how to save money?

It is back!!!

Under a new name: Are we saving enough?

So, what's next?

:{

[Panama Jack]

There is nothing wrong with trying to get employee input to help solve the Company's problems. In fact, it is commendable and the way to go, IMHO.

However, I hope that there were some lessons learned from the deficiencies of the "My Idea" program.

1) While some individuals were probably only motivated by the chance of winning a substantial cash reward, it did not recognize the motivation of other employees who simply wanted to help the company get on track. Unless an idea was selected for the grand prize, there was not even a simple "thank you" letter, something which anybody having dedicated time and energy to submit an idea, regardless of merit, should have received.

2) The "My Idea" program required a "well developed" plan with data (in other words, a Business Case). I am sure that some decent "spark" ideas never got submitted, because of a lack of ability to meet the requirements to do the work that would have benefitted the Company. Let’s face it, many ideas will be binned in any case, but some "cave drawing" concept may actually be taken by people with the expertise to save millions.

3) The "My Idea" program was well advertised, but complicated to submit the ideas. Had to be on paper, but there were no easily-accessible drop boxes or clear instructions on how to submit them. Even Björn Näf' secretary did not know. At least they have improved by providing an e-mail for this one. :D

4) There remains a cultural problem of indifference and resignation. Resignation ("What's the use?") is as much of a hazardous attitude in a work place as it is in the cockpit. Here, mid-level management faces the challenge to demonstrate that this is not true.


I certainly hope that this cost-cutting exercise is not going to turn into a hatchet job, or as Gordon Bethune muses in his book, From Worst to First:

How Running an Airline Is Like Making a Pizza

Say you’re running a pizza place, and your boss says, “The only way we’re going to be a successful pizza place and get customers and make money and win is to make a cheaper pizza.” What are you going to do?

If you want to win, if you want to be rewarded by your boss, you’re going to keep trying to make a cheaper pizza. You’re going to make thinner and thinner crusts to save on flour. You’re going to use less and less sauce to save on tomatoes. You’ll buy canned rather than fresh vegetables, frozen rather than fresh meat. Sooner or later somebody’s going to get the bright idea to take half the cheese off, or all the cheese off, or make the pizza out of cardboard.

Well, you can make a pizza so cheap nobody wants to eat it.

And you can make an airline so cheap nobody wants to fly it. Trust me on this—we did it. So you’re going to be making these incredibly cheap pizzas, and the people in the cost department, the people in the supply department, are going to be happy and high-fiving each other: They’ll be saying, We’re winning back here! And meanwhile, up front, where the orders have dried up and the customers are complaining and no pizzas are selling, you’re not winning at all.

In the end it’s like a canoe—the back end can’t be winning while the front end is sinking. If any part of the canoe is sinking, nobody cares how good the rest of the canoe is doing, because the whole thing is going to sink.

[brassplate]

In the end it’s like a canoe—the back end can’t be winning while the front end is sinking. If any part of the canoe is sinking, nobody cares how good the rest of the canoe is doing, because the whole thing is going to sink.

GF....the sinking canoe

[IFE]

Let's start a new campaign.

"Are we paid enough?"

:D

[ironbutt57]

IFE, nobody in their right mind at any company in the whole world would say they are "paid enough"..however our pay here is extremely competetive, so I think your "campaign" might be a waste of effort...

[IFE]

ironbutt, not for us pilots, but for those useless managers sitting in the pink palace and the boss who earns BD40,000 a month.
cheers!

[Chuck Y]

So what happened over a month ago at the pilots meeting that most of you guys were DEMANDING???? Did any of our ever-so-brave-pprune-big- mouths even go? I doubt it? Just content to whine & complain on pprune but guys remember "if you're not part of the solution then you ARE part of the problem."

Dear Mr Moderator how about changing the title of the thread to Gulf Air Disappoints from CEO down to Mr Joe Pilot?

[Yo767]

Dear Mr Moderator how about changing the title of the thread to Gulf Air Disappoints from CEO down to Mr Joe Pilot?

Dear Mr Chuck, Mr Capt Joe Pilot voted with his feet. He left for QR 3 months ago. He was imitated by several of his colleagues.

[Chuck Y]

I wish the rest of the big mouths in the company would either put up or shut up. I am tired of flying with moaning idiots. Leave your baggage at home where it is supposed to be & do the job at hand. One word professionalism.
Most of the moaners are guys that joined within the last 4 years or so & lets face it they joined a dying company. So why did they join, maybe they didnt get accepted by EK/EY/QR or didnt have the required experience for somewhere better. So as far as I am concerned they knew they were joning a substandard airline but they had no other options. Just do your job then when you get the hours to move or can pass an interview somewhere else leave but dont make everyone arround you suffer.

[Mephistopheles]

Seems people are a little stressed. What's going on? Maybe nothing as ususal.

[wadefac]

wish i hadn't received my final warning from the mods here........sure like to respond to chucky...... :oh:

but wadefac

[SkyDive6]

why don't some of you guys here leave GF and let us who are currently doing Ab-initio training to come back home and take over within the next 8 months, please? if you have problems with pink palace, with Mr. CEO, with payment, thieves, or the imbecile brassplate! go home with whatever dignity you have left and let us work for our pink palace like slaves or whatever you may wish to call it!!

Thanks,

[MikeAlpha7]

:ok::ok::ok:

HEAR...HEAR ...
Indeed , GF is NOT exactly a brilliant airline / organization by any means and the company is dwarfed by the likes of Emirates , Ettihad and Qatar in all departments. It has gone down significantly since Bahrain Government took over , not that it was better managed by the Omanis or Abu Dhabi , but at least they had some cash to fill the gap.

Indeed the many of the experienced staff/managers and pilots have left. Nevertheless , there are still some good ones who are around to keep the ship afloat.

For years , this forums have had more than its share of hyper critics of GF. Some good ones but lots of rubbish as well . The most comical are those critiques of management by people who have 0 management experience themselves , but specially when commenting on an event with very little on background information of the real facts....I have seen plenty of that in pprune.

The point is , the majority of the regulars here are well aware of the situation in GF and make their decision like real professionals do (either stay with the so-called sinking ship or move on) . You cannot improve safety standards and your work environment by constantly nagging in a rumors forum on the web.

If the matter is "Take it off your chest..... " or it is a "Pressure Relief System ", then , it is another matter......

[1830]

EMBRAERS, yes...KLM,LUFTY,BA,FLYBE,VIRGIN BLUE,FINNAIR,AITALIA THE LIST GOES ON...ALL MAKING A SUCCESS? SO MAYBE THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE AIRCRAFT BUT CLOSER TO HOME HMMMMM?

[WELCO]

1830,

If you know something that's called SWOT analysis, I'm sure you would reconsider your statement about the success of ERJ.

Strengths / Weaknesses: these include factors arising internally within the company.

Opportunities / Threats: these two are external factors affecting the company and are uncontrollable.

Now internally, is the idea of ERJ is a plus or minus to the company? For the crew? For maintenance? For the overall operating cost? For thieves?!
Externally, yes we have a problem next to home. Other airline companies around are shifting to bigger shiny jets while we are shifting to smaller ugly ones! They are supported by very wealthy governments that are much more capable of pumping fuel and money than us. The mini-opportunities that our management is seeking in an attempt to be "proactive" would be directed to small/unexplored markets, and this in itself carries the risk of wasting more of the valuable resources. I see the contradiction here. If you want to risk, then take the high-risk because in business terms the "high-risk" operations are the "high-profit" ones too. GF has been going through the nose down stage for long years now. No doubt it would come to end one day, if things continue to be more of the same. Take the high-risk and try to be only a path-follower after QR or EY. Definitely not as big as they are, but putting the momentum into the same direction. If GF is then to vanish from this world, nobody can point his finger in the face blaming them for doing the best they can trying to pace others. Otherwise, it would be like a patient that has been forgotten in bed with his open wounds bleeding slowly for days and nights until he's gone! So many people to blame then! Now thieves really adore this situation because it's their perfect cover .:ugh:

[finalcall]

Good day to you all.Have some thing to say about the E jets here..
The E jets have the capability to make a single sector profitable( which is pretty good thing).. But in GF's case this is not entirely true. Try to think out side the box.... Its the matter of overall load. I remember that the load between in the KHI route used to be pretty high and most of those from KHI either used to continue their journey to JED or LHR. Now lets convert the 320/330 aircraft which flies from KHI to BAH with an E jet.The EMB will have a full load on that route. But the flights to JED and LHR will be greatly affected..And the E jet is not fully capable increasing the "over all load". There is another correct word for it but i cannot recall it at the moment...Long story short, E jets are not right for gulf air.
I can tell you all that working for gulf air gives you experience that not airline can. So please think twice before you decide to leave. And as for Gulf Air closing, this is not entirely possible. As Bahrain Prince Salman will try his best to prevent this from happening.:=

[Che Guevara]

EMBRAERS, yes...KLM,LUFTY,BA,FLYBE,VIRGIN BLUE,FINNAIR,AITALIA THE LIST GOES ON...ALL MAKING A SUCCESS? SO MAYBE THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE AIRCRAFT BUT CLOSER TO HOME HMMMMM?


Indeed and there are many in the US with Jet Blue etc. However, the point that is missed by some is the fact that the demographic profile of a 'Gulf Traveller' is completely different to the commuting, business type passenger in the 'developed world' where E-Jets are operated successfully by all the above mentioned and many more.

What's the difference? In a word, baggage. Indeed this is reflected in baggage allowances of 30-40 kgs etc. So on a full flight you simply cannot carry all the bags...not briefcases and overnight bags mind you, but big heavy bags. This of course does not even address cargo, which there is a lot of on most of GF's regional routes.

So, good airplane for what it is designed for but hardly for the Gulf Traveller, only time will tell of course but at what cost?

Interesting bit of trivia for you here is that Jet Blue reckon that their operating cost on their Embraer fleet costs one cent per seat mile more than their A-320s...apples to oranges perhaps, but interesting nevertheless.

"Sorry Sir but we could not carry your bags because the aircraft was full, you will have to come back to the airport to collect them this evening or perhaps tomorrow."

The 319 now is a completely different story, let's hope the rumour is true...no left bags, long thin routes, flexibility, commonality etc. etc. Oh, nearly forgot, also operated by BA, Lufty and company.

But what the hell, at the end of the day we are only drivers (some of us here anyway) so you pay, we fly!

Safe Flying All

PS
And as for Gulf Air closing, this is not entirely possible. As Bahrain Prince Salman will try his best to prevent this from happening
Let's hope you are right....

[Panama Jack]

But what is the cost of an A319 divided by the number of seats, vs. that of an EMB190/195 divided by a number of seats? Of course, those types of numbers are always depending on the deal and very confidential, but I suspect the difference would buy lots of seat miles. I suspect that is why Jetblue, like Gulf Air are looking seriously at EMB's.

As for the cargo space issue, it will be interesting to see if the same problem exists without the Inflight Entertainment System.

[Che Guevara]

As for the cargo space issue, it will be interesting to see if the same problem exists without the Inflight Entertainment System.
Why, are they taking it out?
How much of the cargo holds does it take up? Enough for 20 Gulf traveller bags?
My point about the 319 really is that they can fly routes that the E-jet can only dream of, for example BAH-ZRH etc. or BAH to anywhere in Europe with a good load. Secondly the commonality issue, spare parts and so on.

[T O G A Boy]

a very simple answer to that question.

Oman air and saudi have internal airports which is ideal for an embraer to operate to. On the other hand GF offers 30kg to pax flying in Economy class and rest assured the majority do use that allowance, if not exceed that allowance, hence the restrictions

[behramjee]

fyi Oman Air and Saudia offer 40kg baggage allowance on all Indian subcontinent bound flights. A lot of their passengers are transit ones who fly via their hubs on ATRs and E70s. Also this baggage issue shouldn't be a problem with the E90s!

EY too are seriously studying to purchase a dozen regional jets for GCC, Iran and Iraq flights in particular.

[Panama Jack]

Che Guevara,

Sorry, I misread something previously.

According to the info that I have, the Aft Cargo Compartment usable volume for an EMB170 with IFE is 3.3 cubic meters.

The useable volume for an EMB170 without IFE is 4.6 cubic meters.

I am not certain how many "average" bags fit into the 1.3 cubic meter difference.

[Chuck Y]

Still no salary in the bank. Being paid late? This will be a first in almost 25 years. Interesting.

wadefac, I fail to see why you couldn't post a reply to my earlier post unless all you were planning on posting was insults?

[Che Guevara]

arent we getting salaries on Sunday?

That is the question of the day my friend, should have been today....

[Panama Jack]

Chuck Y, behramjee & Che Guevara

Maybe there is an issue with your bank? I had my salary hit my account early today.

[Che Guevara]

Thanks PJ

You are probably right about the bank. :rolleyes:

[ironbutt57]

Mine hit the bank around noon, some banks take longer, like (non)Standard Chartered..

[finalcall]

I would like to strongly disagree with anyone suggesting that the E-Jets are not the right aircraft for GF on many short haul routes particularly within the GCC. As every body knows (since a majority of us here are pilots), flights to DOH/AUH/DXB/KWI/MCT/DMM/Iraq/Iran average approximately 60% loads on the A 320 operated flights which are also US$ 1400 per hour (avg cost of all airlines worldwide) more costlier to operate versus a smaller E70.

The E70 and E90 allows GF in the future to operate these flights at a much lower operational cost + the load factor automatically increases due to the smaller aircraft being used which in turn increases yield revenue. It also allows us to open new routes that are deemed to be too big for an A 319/320 to handle such as the markets in Central Asia and Iraq. Remember, the E-Jets is best used on thin routes where bilateral restrictions are not in place to allow for greater frequencies i.e. GCC/AMM/BEY and not on capacity restricted routes such as KHI.

Yes as you pilots are aware, the E70 does have some issues operating in hot weather i.e. over 46C but that is now going to be fixed and shall not be an issue with the E90 aircraft that are getting delivered next month.

If you all think the E Jets are not good aircraft designed for a regional schedule on routes that currently with an A 320 operate at 50-70% load factor + require double-triple daily frequency then kindly explain why Oman Air and Saudia Airlines chose to purchase these aircraft and why Qatar Airways is also going the 'regional' way by purchasing 30 Bombardier C 100/300 Series?

In the long run though, in my opinion the best regional jet for Gulf Air is the Bombardier C100 along with the C300 due to its superior technology and greater flying range capability with a full payload.

Sorry to stray away from the topic, you make a good point. But dont you think 10
E jets are a bit too much? I think if they would start shuttle services to Qatar,Kuwait Dubai etc. that would be really good for the airline.

And also, the E-190 has the capacity of 94. While the 318 has the capacity of 106/107..
So why not just order the 318? the 318 has somewhat the same potential as the E-190...

Lastly, i read some thing about a BOD urging GF to lease the 777 for the USA route..
There are alot of rumor circulating in the airline according to an old chap...

[brassplate]

The A 318 is a commercial failure
Nevertheless with regards to the B 777 rumor, none are heading to GF so dont worry. We dont need the capacity nor the flying range of this lovely aircraft for the time being. Its just a rumor with no substance whatsoever.
I think that they are not and we should order few more as the C300 can be used as an excellent A 320 replacement on regional routes that currently witness 70% plus loads as this plane can save us 20% on each flight in terms of operational costs and has modern technology embedded in it. C100s are ideal to be placed to operate all flights to AUH/DMM/MCT/DOH/DAM/IRAQ/MHD/SYZ/IST/LCA/ + some to DXB/KWI/BEY.

SMALL PLANES
SMALL AIRLINE
SMALL MENTALITY
SMALL IMAGINATION
SMALL REWARDS
SMALL BUDGET
SMALL DREAMS
SMALL COURAGE
SMALL MINDS


can never survive with the kind of neighbours you have...big neighbours
can never compete with the kind of neighbours you have...with big pockets
can never be better with the kind of neighbours you have...who think quality
can never be open minded as the neihbours...who think world airline conquest

because you think small.
no more excuses. your strategy means slow and painful death to gf.

[Sultan85]

:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d
:d:d:d:d:d:d
:d:d:d:d
:d:d
:d :d :d

[Mephistopheles]

It's amazing how easily a vacuum is filled with useless nonsense.
The management from the CEO thru the board to our fleet management dont care what is happening around them as long as they can hang in their positions for another few months. Thats all they care about. Not one single person above the ground floor cares whether this company survives or not. Yet when you hand your resignation in they will give you the BS about being part of the GF family. What family? They are all waiting to climb on each others back & f*** the s*** out of each other. Family of coyotes is more fitting.

[mutt]

A lot of their passengers are transit ones who fly via their hubs on ATRs ATR's????????? I don't think so, plus you don't appear to understand the traveling habits of Saudis on domestic flights... they have an amazing talent of traveling with ZERO and I really mean ZERO luggage, not even a briefcase :)

Mutt

[Panama Jack]

Mutt,

All you need is one of these on your travels:

http://www.prestoimages.net/prestostore_graphics03/864_pd9126full.jpg

[Tiburon peligroso]

How many Ejets are they planning to take? Will they be crewed by GF pilots or contractors? The E195 would be decent prospect for the network.

[Tiburon peligroso]

Anybody have an interview any time soon?

2x190's arriving very soon.

[T O G A Boy]

Behramjee, I dont know where u get ur infos from but they are nothing but proverbial

[Radar Contact]

E190 can't replace A320. The A320's you are talking about will be replaced in December by NEW A320's (AJ/AK)

[evilatp]

TOGA I think everything at GF is proverbial until it actually happens.
:)

I too heard that the two 190's are going to be picked up very soon.

[boiler]

From what I heard, the 2 E90s are coming around Sep 20th or so and be operational by the end of the month or at the beginning of October.

[Mike.Park]

Baby born on Gulf Air flight, dumped in toilet bin

Source: Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1311307/Baby-born-Gulf-Air-flight-toilet-bin-jet-cleaners.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)

[Panama Jack]

Sad story of what people are capable of. There are more humane ways for parents to get rid of unwanted children. Nice to hear that our crew pitched in to buy the youngster some basic necessities. Hope they will find a loving home for him.

[Tiburon peligroso]

Interviews for EMB crews will be held at the end of this month.

[T O G A Boy]

Evil, U maybe right about ur comment but lets not over exaggerate the situation. We all know there are 2 more Embs coming, but only as an addition to the embraer fleet and not as a replacement to the A320s as stated by Behramjee.
And regarding the newborn dumped in the bin, I dare ask a simple question. Didnt the airport staff at Saudi or Bahrain notice a pregnant woman board. Should'nt they ask for her medical papers as per the regulations. For the child to be born at 6lbs, she must have been at that stage that airport staff should have insisted on her medical clearance whilst boarding :confused:

[Tiburon peligroso]

TOGA
I was told the same. E's are not replacing any 20's.

[GrannySmith]

These will be some of the highest paid Embraer-Jobs ever.
Thank you Gulf Air , your Payscale really makes sense to us!

[Tiburon peligroso]

initially posted on flightinternational a few weeks back.

[Panama Jack]

TOGA Boy, in a perfect world, yes. However, this is not a perfect world and all sorts of medical cases slip through due to lack of passenger knowledge/ willingness to cooperate and/or failure of the ground staff to either notice or act accordingly. I suspect that in the future this will become more common due to on-line check-in and increasing ease of getting from the curbside to the airplane without the usual procedure of standing in line for a long time.

There have also been numerous cases where it has been hard to notice that a woman, due to her body shape, was pregnant.

[zedoscarro]

@GrannySmith

These will be some of the highest paid Embraer-Jobs ever.
Thank you Gulf Air , your Payscale really makes sense to us!

Could you give us a hint of how will these figures look like?
How many $$$/year are we talking about?

[jackx123]

Poor girl most likely raped by her sponsor in Saudi :(

[GrannySmith]

@zedoscarro
Expect something like 110k USD/a.
This is based on 3500 BD monthly
Salary for First Officers (including
allowances,depending)
TAXFREE in this part of the World.
Not that bad for an RJ.
On the other hand it is pretty cost
Intensive for Gulf Air.
It was always GFs Philosophy:
The more Money we burn, The better!
Cheers

[DesertHawk]

Granny: are these perminent positions FO and Capt? And dont plan to take home 3500bd as 700 or so will be your housing allowance.

[Tiburon peligroso]

Hi Granny

$US110K p/a for a co-pilot...

big difference from a capts pay check of $US7500 p/month!! That was the basic monthly salary offered from the agency!

Seems someone is dipping their hand into the cookie jar.

[GrannySmith]

After all this is "Cookie Jar Country", better get used To it!

[zedoscarro]

110k USD per year for an E190 FO is way good. :D
Gosh, are they looking for E190 pilots?
What minimuns do they require?

[Tiburon peligroso]

Sorry boys, $US110k p/yr for a co-pilot. Never!

In any case, the $US7500 p/mth for a capt is crap money. Can't imagine quality capt's would go for the gig.. Cash too low!

[behramjee]

after reading some of these co-pilot salary levels offered for E90s, you all should watch Micheal Moore's film Capitalism where it talks about the average regional jet pilot in USA making US$ 30,000 per year and then it goes on to talk about the Continental Airlines RJ crash in BUF last year and how the pilots before the plane crashed were overheard on the cockpit voice recorder talking about their low salary levels. Moore then showed a segment where bakery staff in one California company were making US$ 65,000 per year compared to a more qualified pilot !!! Interesting 10 minute part of the film which really caught my attention:D

[Mephistopheles]

Sorry to burst the bubble guys but I can't see how we need to hire guys for the embraer when we have already tranferred too many pilots form the airbus to it(our guys are hardly flying & hence losing lots of money). Unless, of course, Majali & co. have found yet another creative form of thievery. If thats the case then I wouldn't come down here since that means by 2012 we are f***ed.

[Tiburon peligroso]

Mephistopheles

No problem...They wont be flooded with any quality applicants anyway. T&C suck.

[Tiburon peligroso]

Still no firm T&C on the table for the EMB contract. It would seem they're in no hurry to take EMB crew.

[Mephistopheles]

WTF. Majali gets CEO of the year! What has he done except reduce GF to less than a regional carrier competing with the likes of Bahrain air, Air Arabia, etc. I guess we shouldnt take him & his award too seriously since Hogan also got visionary of the year!
On another note despite all his cost cutting we are loosing more than ever-almost US$1.5 a day! Good job Mr M.
It seems his plan is to wreck GFs long haul routes in order to validate his Embraer policy/commission.
Also any truth to the rumor that Antoine applied to Oman Air?

[Airmann]

Message to Mephistopheles and all others who think like him.
flying lots of long haul routes with 1000 planes and advertising all over the world does not equal success.
Success for Gulf Air is:
1. Satisfy the travel needs of the people of Bahrain, expat and local.
2. Do it using a good product that satisfies customers.
3. Try and make it so that people give you more money for the services than you spend.
However, SM and the gov't are going further than that by trying to be a leading regional airline, they could stop simply at flying Bahraini locals and Bahraini expats to popular destinations, have maybe 15 aircraft in total but at least they have higher ambitions than that.

So to all of you who still bitch and moan on the basis of routes and expansion; your argument is not valid. An airline of 50 planes, with the majority of them being short haul, serving the needs of the region, and making a profit would be ideal. If all you want is to fly long haul so that you can go to East Asia, America and Europe and do whatever it is that you do there, then join another airline, this airline needs people who support its plan, and its a good one. Wait until the E190s show up, they are a little bigger and may serve Gulf Airs needs a little better than the 170s. But you wont know until both planes are tried out. Its not as if he's put in any firm orders. Majali is trying these aircraft out, how else is he to know what works and what doesn't? Calculating stuff on paper does not substitute real world trail and error.
You guys still don't realize that GF has 320s on order, probably with many many more to come if the 330 deal is renegotiated. The Embraers are not a replacement for the 320s. Any regional carrier needs something that size to go to places that just aren't big enough for the 320. And why does GF have to go to those small markets? Because they are untapped, and will provide GF with a lead in the market. Because if GF is going to be the best regional carrier with the biggest route structure it needs to go everywhere, this is good thinking. Its the same plan as Emirates but on a regional level, not a global one.
Ok, that being said stop complaining about the lack of vision for long haul, GF cannot compete with EK and EY. If the Bahraini gov't is willing to give the airline unlimited money then maybe, but otherwise forget it. If its just your preference to fly farther and bigger planes because of your own ego then go right ahead, but stop making it seem as though there is something wrong with GF, becuase the long haul issue is not a problem at all, it will be perfectly acceptable if GF is a smaller but profitable airline (and even then a 50 plane airline is not small; it is compared to a 200 plane airline but then everything is relative). There are problems at GF but the decision to fly only a few long haul routes is not one of them, its perfectly acceptable and a good one.

[Mephistopheles]

Airmann you obviously have no idea about the aviation business(?) in the region. Firstly, the idea that GF can become profitable is total BS & is not feasable when you have 3 huge airlines next door with almost unlimited funds & a well run low cost carrier like Air Arabia around.
You will also find that many airlines do feasability studies before "trying out" new aircraft & then take around 6mths to a year inducting them into the airline. Not get them & see how is goes!!!
Maybe you are brown nosing for a job of the Embraer my friend? Good luck.

[finalcall]

GF has been established in the international market. The major problem that GF is that they suffering because of the money hungry (over paid)people from upper management( not surprise there). I have been almost on all interntaional route ( mainly Europe) which GF flies to and most of them are packed with pax.So i dont see a reason for them to stop flying there.
Opening regional untapped destination is a great thing. However, it doesnt mean that you should not look into the international destination. After estabilishing the airline in the middle east, the airline should look into destinations liks JFK and a couple of countries in Europe as many people from the ME and the indian subcontinents fly there very often and vise versa. Thats what Mr.M is not looking into. Options for redicing the 330-300 aircraft is acceptable:oh:. But cancelling the entire 330 orders is not a good move in my opinion:=. This will prevent the airline from tapping some untapped international marketwhen needed .And the same goes for the 787s specially because it is fuel efficiant ,easy to maintain and high in demand.

Making the airline dependant entirely on narrow body fleet is just not the right way to reduce costs. I have stated this before; its not whether you make the profit or not, Its how you make the profit..

i am not claiming that the CEO is an idiot or not doing his research etc ... But I would its just that he is being very close minded regarding the international routes in purticular the USA and alot of them in Asia.Its just something that needs to be given some attention.

P.S New European routes TBA in April ( an unofficial report) ;)

[Airmann]

Mephistopheles (http://www.pprune.org/members/186618-mephistopheles), I am voicing my opinion, I am not brown nosing for a job. Secondly, yes you are right my years of experience in the aviation do not compare to most people on this forum, but thats why I am here, partly to voice my opinion and also to learn. If GF didn't do a thorough study on the Embraer then you are right about that mess up. But my point about bitching about routes still stands.

I still think that it is a better strategy for GF to have their foot firmly placed in the Gulf first, and to then use that position to start international routes, not the other way around. GF was in damage control mode when Majali got in, he had to shut down what wasn't working, and immediately (mostly long haul international routes).

Look GF still has a head start on all the regions big players when it comes to its Middle East network. GF has to build on this and use it to their advantage, and I think that is what the CEO is trying to do. That was the point of my post, I'm not disagreeing with you on the mismanagement of funds by some folk and all the other problems, I'm not even going to touch on that, I'll leave it to you. But, and I'll say it again more plainly, my argument is that GF has to first have a great local (and I use the term local to mean GCC, Iraq, Iran etc.) route structure to funnel passengers to Bahrain before taking them abroad, they should not be focusing on flying Brits to Thailand or Indians to North America, that is what all the big players have been doing and they have only just realized that they need to start collecting passengers from their local areas hence the sudden rush for smaller planes, the creation of FlyDubai etc. Relying on far away markets for the majority of your revenue is a little risky. Especially since a few changes with regard to price, route structure and product from some airlines in Europe, Asia and Africa could lead to big changes in passenger numbers for the 3 ME carriers. Relying on your local passengers to make up your business is, in my opinion, and I'm sure of some others is a sound business policy.

Now over to mismanagement, corruption and the rest of that, like I said I'll leave that to someone else to discuss.

[T O G A Boy]

So is there any news about the E190s. Are they coming or was it another standard crap from GF

[EK2EYengineer]

Team is already in Brazil to pick up the aircraft original date was 2nd oct but it may delay for few days may be next saturday will be touchdown in BAH

[Mephistopheles]

Plan A was for them to arrive was Sept 14 but there were some financing problems. Don't know which team is in Brazil but its not the guys that are going to bring it to Bah?

[T O G A Boy]

Believe it when I see it.

[Tiburon peligroso]

seems the GF EMB gig is a fizzer! contracts are on hold.

[SandShovel]

MC & MD arriving on 9th inshalah, according to the system.

[GrannySmith]

Heard they are all from Jordan...

[Albergineman]

These are what I have heard:

1 - Wet leased B737 to fly to new EU destinations until the A319LR arrive
2 - The Embraer implementation has been frozen due to too much headache
3 - Mr M. is about to leave (as usual with all GF's CEO...)
4 - DEC in all fleet
5 - At least another 20 FO's will leave up to December due to no carreer progression
6 - They will all be replaced by brand new SO...

:eek:

[767]

WHY WHY :mad::mad::mad:

[767]

safety:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[767]

keep playing with your flight simulator:)

[stefan1138]

It seems the E-190s are on their way simultaneously:

Photos: Embraer ERJ-190-100IGW 190AR Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Gulf-Air/Embraer-ERJ-190-100IGW-190AR/1792220/M/)

[SandShovel]

DECs are on their way also:}

[Panama Jack]

Nice photo, stefan1138. Nice shiny, new airplane. Sadly it will have pen markings on the panels, greasy fingerprints all over the screens of the MCDU's and Display Units and spilled coffee/juice on the floor in short term. Why why why?????? :ugh:

http://www.ideachampions.com/weblogs/dumb-Neanderthal.jpg


Yeah, so I heard, SandShovel. Hopefully "temporary"and "short-term" doesn't become "renewal after renewal" for "years and years" this time around. . . or worse. :*

[finalcall]

I am a bit puzzled here. First GF announces that they need regional aircraft smaller than the 320s which they already have. But then they just shoot the 737s at your face.Sad to see that the lack of organisation in the company still lives on. The 737s were wet leased to GF a couple of years ago but they werent worth it . If they want a regional carrier, stick with the 320 for crying out loud.

787s have been moved upto 2019 . 330s are in process of negotiation.So dont expect to find a brand new wide body any time soon
Nice to see that our neighbours are doing great.


YouTube - World Business: Gulf Air Hubs 10/09/10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DV18HN6OYg)

[Tziganul]

from what i hear, and it's worth what it's worth, SM is making EMB corp pay for all the **** that's been happening. they don't like it but they have to according to the contract. they get 6 crew free per each airplane. now the 319LR are not coming anymore. yes, possible 738 which could keep some of the folks put intill further notice. the rest of the EMBs will be stopped...

diagnosis... the thieves who are still in the company and are untouchables
prognosis... SSDD (same s... different day)

nothing will change boys and girls, don't get your hopes up and just do your jobs, if not happy, leave... and if you can't leave ... just do your job and try leave harder . keep it up folks, great things are happening and you are being part of it!

[SubsonicMortal]

great things are happening and you are being part of it!

Elaborate a bit more please

[Tziganul]

1) every day you wake up and you're alive = a great thing
2) every day you wake up without an illness = a great thing
3) every day you wake up and see the sun = a great thing
4) every day you wake up and are with loved ones = a great thing
5) every day you wake up and have a job = a great thing
6) every day you wake up and get to eat and drink as you please = a great thing
7) should I go on ? ....

those are the great things that we are part of every day, the rest is pointless!!!! Oh yeah, one more thing ... be happy to be part of a great thing!!!!

[Albergineman]

SM = Same Mess?

:}

[bus_aviator]

Tziganul....please stay off the hallucinogens...bad combo when mixed with flying :E

[brassplate]

JH = Just Hot air
AD = Another ********
BN = Biggest Nutcase
SM = Same Mess

[Icarus]

"Gulf Air boss Samer Majali faces one of the most crucial commercial decisions to date.."

After, what, 18 months in charge?

Saving GBP1M per annum - approximately the equivalent of one days operating losses at GF - it seems Majali just needs another 364 similar ideas and GF might just get back into the black!

Answers on a postcard please! PO Box 138, Kingdom of Bahrain.

Gulf Weekly (http://www.gulfweeklyworldwide.com/article.asp?Sn=7814&Article=25764)

Some CEO!

[Trader]

214, these contributors are not CEO's and don't get paid as CEO's!!!! Odd that, considering they are not CEO's.

Considering the boys at GF have gone through 4 CEO's over the last 5 years is it any suprise that they lack confidence in their 'leader'. Even more to the point--their future is directly tied to the CEO's abilities and choices and so they have every right to make judgment! In the same way that they would be judged for an error on the line.

Finally, look through all of the GF posts and you will see lots of suggestions from people on this forum. The most noticable being the need to stamp out corruption!!!

[brassplate]

...blood for the sharks

[Mephistopheles]

Nothing new here. Money comes in, thieves line their pockets, crew work harder in a foolish attempt to bring in revenue for the company. Crew get scewed over, or if the case of cabin crew-fired.
Majali sitting in his office rubbing his hands in anticipation of the new cash injection.
E195s having tech problems from day 1, but he still insists that this is the right direction for GF to take.
2 of the "5 reasons to fly Gulf Air" are delayed due to lack of a/c & the unreliabilty of the Embraer.
In all my years here I have never seen a CEO such a huge disregard for our operating enviroment/customers, but I guess thats the commission singing.
The only thing that you can bet your bottom dollar on in GF is that a bigger thief is always waiting round the corner to jump into the CEO position.
Lets see what they will do next to drop our moral another peg down, as I have learnt well here that there is always another depth for this airline to sink to.

[Icarus]

19% of the entire Bahrain budget to prop up Gulf Air? Ouch!

[Dessert Aviator]

The published loss at GF last year was US$500 million, that's half the money gone already. I can't see the loss for the coming 12 months being much less, so that's the capitol injection spent before the ink dries:*

[Tziganul]

My theory is that GFA is trying to get their s... together in order to become attractive for sale. To whom? Hey we saw a few weeks ago that article that BA was interested in partnership here in the GCC, could it be that ......
time will tell...

[boiler]

things are getting better. my sources tell me the alliances guy is now the top man in network planning (ML?). Bahramgee, you are in that department, what are your thoughts?

[Tziganul]

Anyone here with more on the dct cptns that we are supposed to have? Hear they are from South A. Of course, this will not intervene in the current cptn upgrades! Just like last time when they hired the dct cptn for the 330-340, it was only for a short period of 5-7 years and this of course did not affect upgrades either. Guess they still have not learned their lesson!

Just want to say that this post was not to complain about the dct cptn, as we know how short we are on that level and 99% of those guys are great guys!, it's just a mere "wake up" call to speed up the process of upgrading.

Maybe i'm just a big dreamer...

[slowjet]

You certainly are. Keep snoozing. This is the company that got rid of the over 60's, some on the 340 with two year bonds on one year contracts, later reduced to six month contracts ! Then, finding themselves short, go the DEC route (cos it is the most obvious) and shafts the promotion line from within. Crisis Management my dear chap from a company that finds itself in the dreadful position it is in, because of such inept management, of which it is famous.

Enjoy your promotion dreams. Better still, go somewhere else where the management is more skillfull and less corrupt.

[SubsonicMortal]

Gulf Air considering three types for regional jet fleet (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/10/25/348875/gulf-air-considering-three-types-for-regional-jet-fleet.html)

[DesertHawk]

Subsonic:

Great article:) GF is now considering 3 types. I was under the impression an airline would do a study, identify routes and aircraft type that works then make a purchase and then introdice aircraft. I guess SM and GF managment have new ideas.

Buy aircraft, incurr hundreds of thousands of dollars of cost to the airline for a start up of new fleet. Totally mismanage pilots on that fleet, then and only then consider which aircradft are right for the company. Sounds to me like all these other airlines in the world need to take a course with GF or SM cause they must be missing something. I would love to see them now change from EMB to CRJ. Would solidify how we want to spend that 1 billion investment. :D

[Che Guevara]

Sounds like someone looking for justification perhaps?

[Panama Jack]

The way I read the article, Gulf Air is simply sending signals to the aircraft manufacturers that they want them to sharpen their pencils to present their best T's & C's. This is not unusual in aircraft purchase competitions. These are intense and high-risk processes for both parties and it is prudent for GF to try to squeeze the best deal it can from the manufacturers.

DesertHawk, Gulf Air is not examining the CRJ but rather the Bombardier C-series, which IMHO may be a better fit for GF but, of course, everything depends on the bids that GF is able to get. This is the airplane which Qatar Airways has also placed an order for.

Aerospace > Products > Commercial Aircraft > CSeries (http://www.bombardier.com/en/aerospace/products/commercial-aircraft/cseries?docID=0901260d800091e6)

Who knows, given the A318s commercial failure, uh, I mean success, Airbus may be willing to practically give them away for nothing and then that may be the airplane we end up with.

I understand that everybody has their interests here. In any case, the final decision should be interesting.

[Sultan85]

Yesterday 18:21DesertHawkSubsonic:

Great articlehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif GF is now considering 3 types. I was under the impression an airline would do a study, identify routes and aircraft type that works then make a purchase and then introdice aircraft. I guess SM and GF managment have new ideas.

Buy aircraft, incurr hundreds of thousands of dollars of cost to the airline for a start up of new fleet. Totally mismanage pilots on that fleet, then and only then consider which aircradft are right for the company. Sounds to me like all these other airlines in the world need to take a course with GF or SM cause they must be missing something. I would love to see them now change from EMB to CRJ. Would solidify how we want to spend that 1 billion investment. :D

NICE ONE! :}:}:} :}:}:} :}:}:}

[DesertHawk]

:ugh:Panama: Please read my statement carefully. Point has nothing to do with which aircraft is superior. WE ALREADY have embraers not the time now to figure out if they are the best to have. EMB are good aircraft but to change now would be even more of a screw up!

[Panama Jack]

Sorry, DesertHawk, if I misread your statement. :uhoh:

I agree with your observation, in principle. However I am not privy to the arrangements made between Embraer and Gulf Air or the deals that may be made with Airbus or Bombardier that could potential trump the Embraer arrangement. That is the point that I am trying to make. I do agree that the constant reshuffling of the deck smells of disorganization to the outsider. I also agree that the EMB's are a good airplane for a regional mission.

I guess we will see soon enough (Inshallah).

[DesertHawk]

its not about the aircraft to me. The Bombardier and EMB are both good just have there pros and cons etc.....My point is when you make this many waves within a company, upset a lot of lives and make so many changes you have to have a solid gameplan that you stick to. Obviously no study was done on these EMB as the 170 would have never arrived in that case. At this point to change again would be disastrous to so man y people. Maybe SM does not care but there are again people leaving in droves as the planning and career progression are again under scrutiny. To flip flop to another type now put all the EMB pilots back on another course where they again make only basic salary for 6 months due to lack of planning. This would truly bring moral to an all time low. The company needs to turn around we all can agree on that but it has to be in partnership with the people and not on their backs!:ok:

[Panama Jack]

Nor am I, when I see bulky home-made bundles that are a combination of bedsheets and nylon rope that have the owner's name and are labled "From Abu Dhabi to Dhaka."

Based on this, it would appear that one of the problems is an enforcement of prescribed dimensions of checked baggage. It reflects poor business practices, IMHO, when inefficient (from a business sense) subsidized airlines are putting more expensive widebody jets on these routes to accomodate the oversized bags of what often are low-yield passengers.

Nevertheless, "educating" the travelling public will be a challenge. But then again they managed to pull it off with paperless tickets and online bookings.

[Mephistopheles]

So according tho Mr SM it is our passengers fault/problem that the embraer is not working? Unfortunately in any service based industry, especially one as competetive as the gulf, you must give the customers what they want. Maybe if SM had not lived such a sheltered life & had any real world business savvy he would appreciate that very simple but important fact?
The failure of the embraer is compounded by the fact that it is,despite SM banning engineering from confirming & documenting, the aircraft spends far too much time AOG.
Already the introduction of it has cost the company over BD50 million in addition to the loss of passengers & crew.

[Mephistopheles]

Just ask someone who is brave enough in finance to tell you & you will be shocked.

[T O G A Boy]

That figure is spot on. I heard it too myself. So SM now seems to be complaining about the pax nag and whinge. Does he realise that the pax have a choice and they can frequent other airlines. Pax have every right to "nag and Whinge" as he bluntly put it, but doesnt he seem to understand that they are paying the salaries of his staff. Does he realise what a damage he has caused to this company. Never has the morale of the staff been so low and the problem lies not only with him, but also those management hungry individuals beneath him, who have no balls to face him and tell him about the flaw in his system.

[boiler]

Hey behramjee, you can talk about apartments in Bahrain but not the changes in your department. What gives? Why so silent these days? You were very active when you first joined the forum?

[Heleheleyani]

I was checking the AIMS today and I noticed that there's no option for Flight information anymore, so I cannot the flight schedule any other flight other than my own. Does anybody know is it permanent, or temporary? Do you know why it's done this way? So much for the transparency

[skywaytoheaven]

Oh no aims isn't working properly, can you believe the lack of transparency, what is the world coming to?

[Heleheleyani]

Mr habibi,

let me tell you in your language, if you cannot see the flight information, you cannot see who is doing which block, you only see your block so you don't complain. You sit in your home and pray to god that they will give you a flight you requested. When you have changes and they give you a new flight you cannot even see who took your old flight.

You cannot check and see anymore who's going to FRA and LHR on Fridays

understand azizi?

[cayclone]

no tranparency:rolleyes:

[Sultan85]

they are going too far :=:=:=

[Joe Monsoon]

The good news is that we are all getting a 15% salary increase. I guess thats why we recently got the email from BMW about the discount they will give us. Congrats guys we deserve it.

[SubsonicMortal]

What's your source? Or are you taking the mickey now?

[Sultan85]

salary increase????:}:}:} in GULF AIR????:}:}:} at this time???:eek::bored:
hhhhhaaahhhhaaaa

[surfer of desert]

Salary is Ok, maybe the school and house allowances need to be increase.:ok:

[Panama Jack]

Mephistopheles, I can't comment about the loss figures because I am not "in the know." However, I would just like to comment regarding the statement of "giving customers what they want."

I know that the common mantra in the service industry is "The Customer is Always Right." It sounds pretty and it tugs at the emotional heartstrings, but the truth of the matter is that there are plenty of examples on when the customer is wrong (wise service providers don't tell him that in such blunt terms, though).

I know that "competition" in this part of the World has everything to do with having the biggest, the most luxurious, the most expansive, the most impressive, the most prestigious . . . . etc etc etc., without regard to sustainability or profitability (or sometimes even logic).

In other parts of the World (where profitability and sustainability are important issues), companies do not "give the customer what he wants" but rather they "give the customer what he is willing to pay for." I appreciate that Majali swims across a popular current in this philosphy, but he is trying to inject this dose of reality to the business in the region. Sure, a business will lose some customers (some were not worth having) but by being able to provide greater frequency to more regional destinations, the strategy is to pick up the higher-yielding passengers who recognize a real value in the product being offered.

I appreciate that everybody (including yours truly) experience both good and bad days and emotional highs and lows at any employer. But without intending to direct my comments to any particular forum member, I wonder why some of the contributors stick around at Gulf Air when it is evident, month after month, year after year, that they are bitter and unhappy about the airline, its past, present and future plans? I doubt that Gulf Air will ever be an airline that is similar in scale to Emirates or Qatar Airways, but both of these airlines are recruiting. Let's be honest with ourselves. Isn't life too short to fritter it away in something you don't believe in?

[ironbutt57]

Well put PJ...:ok:

[Mephistopheles]

PJ, gotta give it to you I really do love your doe eyed enthusiasm but I can't help thinking to myself that when you have finished your upgrade & got enough hours to open some doors in other airlines will you still be around?
Many of us still "stick" around purely cuz we & most importantly our families are very happy to live in Bah. Bottom line is my first priority is my families happiness.

[mkdar]

Mephistopheles



I second that strongly.


I love Bahrain, Bahrainis are lovely people, the family loves it in Bahrain, and yes, the only reason keeping me in Bahrain is that I love the place.


Yes , we can do with improvement in Gulf Air but , hey one can not win every thing.


I too, saw lots of ups and downs with gulf air, but that is life.


Bahrain can not afford not having an airline, they can not afford a huge airline like its neighbors either, as far as I am concerned, I will stick around as long as I am offered a job, I don't care who is the CEO, who is the HOFO, who is doing what.


None of that is my business.


My business is my priority to my family and love to my work.


My penny worth of thoughts.

[Che Guevara]

Look, someone has been asked to justify the Embraer purchase, as simple as that.
The 318 has been a commercial failure due to high cost per seat mile, indeed Frontier Airlines for example are scapping almost new aircraft, yes, parting them out.
The Bombardier looks great on paper, however it's till three years away.
So what are we left with, yep, the good old E-jet.

So there we have it, the justification is signed sealed and delivered, more E-jets on their way is my guess)
AND
The passengers will 'just have to change their attitudes' or exercise their options, which are many.

See ya on the Sitra-Muharraq express....
Eejit

[Sultan85]

Therefore, effective immediately, crew will be assigned OFLX (offline
without pay) on the day of the roster change if they do not acknowledge
their roster changes (If any) upon check out from AIMS.
The amended check-out policy is in addition to the existing requirement to
check AIMS two hours before your scheduled report time of your next
duty

:eek::eek::eek:

:confused::confused::confused:
So if I have minimum rest before standby, I have to cut my rest 2 hours before my standby starts, to check the aims!!!! Only one question to all: is disturbing my minimum rest before any duty is legal????:confused:

[Not Gulfair CEO]

No Sultan, There is no requirement to check aims before your stand by duties. Read the memo again.

[Sultan85]

No sir, I know whets in the memo and you should know and understand my point.:ugh:
The standby was just example, it could be any duty!:rolleyes:
Please read my post again.:}
Thank you.

[T O G A Boy]

Whatever its meant Sultan, that memo is another one of the DFO's harsh and threatening letters.:ugh:

[Sultan85]

Thank you TOGA BOY :ok:

[ironbutt57]

Dont think I will be waking up 4am to check my roster for my 6am standby, unless it appears in OMA that this is a requirement...

[Albergineman]

CREW ADMINISTRATION MANUAL
...
3- COMMUNICATION
...
3.1 MANAGEMENT TO CREW COMMUNICATION TOOLS
...
3.1.5 Joint Notice to Crew (JNTC)
Joint notices to Crew are applicable to Flight and Cabin Crew. They are valid until incorporated into the relevant manual or until the notice is withdrawn.

:ok:

[Che Guevara]

Uninterrupted rest = uninterrupted rest.

Any change in FTLs must be approved by the relevant Authority, not by company publication. This is about your License to fly and the issuing authority, not who you work for.

[Sultan85]

BTW ironbutt57,
even if it appears in OMA that this is a requirement,the OMA is not a holy book and
It will be not acceptaple any way:=

[ironbutt57]

Did I use the word "Holy", dont think so....nor would I...

[ironbutt57]

But if it does appear in the OMA, then it is a legal requirement from the BCAA, either way, I generally do check my AIMS at a reasonable time before my duty commences to prepare, but on the occasion of min rest, then sometimes no...

[Albergineman]

Nobody needs to report for a Stand By duty since it is a period during which the company places a restraint on crew who would otherwise be off duty. During the Standby period, crew may be called at short notice for a duty.

There is no need to check AIMS two hours before a stand by duty.

Crew is required to chek AIMS two hours before a assigned duty (a block or a simulator) only.

Who has a different interpretation let us know.

:ok:

[Che Guevara]

Who has a different interpretation let us know

Yes, as I was alluding to in my previous post. If you are on minimum rest for example, then 'checking' your Aims as a company requirement during that time period is a violation of the term 'uninterrupted' rest and indeed could be interpreted as the start of a Duty period.

However, having said all that, I am also aware of where we are working. Have a good rest!

[Sultan85]

thank you Che Guevara :ok:

[AeroForce]

Keep it simple, once you've checked out after a duty in AIMS there is no further requirement to check your AIMS until within 2 hours before your next rostered duty.

Your assigned duty is for you to plan your rest for the next duty. After your rest period has started, there is no way for the company to force an earlier report of a next duty. They can only advice you of a delay thereafter without disturbing your rest, therefore you should check your AIMS within 2 hours before your next report, as there might just be a surprise in store :E

If you've checked AIMS/IVR within 2 hours before your next report and there was no change, then crewing becomes responsible to advice you of any changes :uhoh:

[Not Gulfair CEO]

Checking aims 2 hours before your reporting time is not a new thing, the memo was just a reminder of an old issue. would you rather go to ops and then find out about the delay or cancellation!!!.
If 2 hours before your duty you are still sleeping then there are 2 possible reasons for that, either you are living in Amwaj or you dont take shower.:rolleyes:

[T O G A Boy]

Its irrelevant whether we are sleeping or not having a shower, but the fact remains that in a way during my supposed UNINTERRUPTED rest, I have to actually get up and check my duty. Why cant they simply inform me via sms ( as per their normal practice ) that I have changes.

[SubsonicMortal]

hy cant they simply inform me via sms ( as per their normal practice )

As per JNTC 322, an sms message is not an official means of notifying w.r.t roster changes.

[Albergineman]

Crew scheduling may send a text message (SMS) informing crew members to check their AIMS system for the applicable changes.
Please note that SMS text messages are not considered a means of notification for schedule changes, rather it is a means of prompting the crewmember to check AIMS/IVR for the applicable changes.

:ok:

[Sal-e]

Today on CNN.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2010/11/05/mme.b.facetime.gulf.air.ceo.cnn)

[Albergineman]

Interesting, but nothing new whatsoever...

:{

[Che Guevara]

I loved the bit about connecting Iran to world!

[Sultan85]

we must start connecting Bahrain first:}

[Tziganul]

It's time for Q&A at the Movenpick on Nov 22nd! Rumors have it that a pay rise may be one of the "new strategies" From what I gather, can be as much as 30% for office workers and 20% for flying personnel. Anyone else with different numbers?

[Apache702]

Can I have one of those pills too, :}

[Tziganul]

Yes, you may collect it at Fleet Office

[767]

:O:O:}:}:mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Tziganul]

Directly from the oven!

"I would like to invite you to a presentation to update you on our progress so far and announce the roll out of our new compensation and benefits system."

let's wait and see...

[Chuck Y]

the roll out of our new compensation and benefits system

Dont get your hopes up, the only people getting anything will be ground staff. Nothing for us.
Now back to work.

[Tziganul]

Great! This means that GFA will loose another 70 pilots next year! Something might happen then. But according to the geniuses in planning, we are fat of pilots. Then I guess they can afford to slim down... Great! Just ... great!

[Che Guevara]

To be fair, I don't think pilots are leaving due to the money, it's more about job security and lack of confidence in the future. In addition many simply don't want to fly the 'jungle jet' when they have the option of flying a squeaky clean, new widebody with career progression rather than regression etc.

[Sultan85]

our ground staff:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

[Sultan85]

happy Eid To All:o

[brassplate]

1. gf under pressure to bahrainize pilots
2. gf expat pilots planned for the e-jets
3. all-local fleet office will spell disaster due lack of check and balance, nationalism, nepotism, shiitism/sunnism, etc-ism
4. no news seems good news, no news always
5. gf fails to plan, gf plans to fail

[Tziganul]

what! and i thought the meeting was not before the 22nd! well i'm not going now since we've got all the juicy stuffs. great work brasseplate! and may i add AMEN!

oh by the way, it would not surprise me if we hear that Bahrain Air is buying us out lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol, i can think of one company who did just that and well, if you remember the last "big announcement" ... there was only one company in a worst financial situation than GFA but with 150+ aircrafts, yeah it's in Europe and has been bought or "saved" buy a smaller company who now is operating under the older name, anyhow it's shaped like a boot.

hmmm... pay rise, layoffs, merger, cost cutting, efficiency, transparency ... i don't know who what to believe :ugh:

[Albergineman]

Only few words to be said:

S.N.A.F.U.!

Cheers!

:{

[Che Guevara]

OK, what's the rumor of RJ pilots coming over on contract to show us the ropes?

Funny, but I thought they were doing really well following the M model of airline management...making money hand over fist and all that. I guess you can't believe what you hear these days, can you?

[Tziganul]

Heard last night that our beloved geniuses on the top floor are seriously thinking, if they have not all ready taken the decision to do it, to lower the minimums for captains to 3500. Hmmmm.... 0....7.....2.... .....:=:ugh::D
As always, s...a...f...t...y first:rolleyes:

[Che Guevara]

Lowering the hourly limit would be a very serious mistake.

[Albergineman]

It all depends!

There are pilots here with 3 times more hours than the actual minimum and still can't make de command assessment or have the mindset for it and there are others with around 3500h TT that can do the job nicely...

:rolleyes: