Gulf Air Developments

[brassplate]

c'mon man. who's gonna take longer to train onto a boeing? a pilot who's flown nothing else in his life but a cherokee and a bus or a pilot who's flown thousands of hours on a boeing? geez.

[Mephistopheles]

So according to brassplate's extensive research into the subject of Airbus rated pilots switching to Boeing it is a big no-no & should only be attempted as a last resort. Maybe you should share some of your research with the relevant authorities-I'm sure they would be more than happy to lend an ear to you. By the way, what about transfers from Boeing to Airbus? Is that a less riskier proposition? Or should the company have just let go the Boeing pilots since they may be unsuitable for transfer?

[buba]

haa, haa...its amusing to hear the drum roll before the scramble...thought boeings wer ****..just made for us low lifes....haa haa..never dreamt that i'd ever here an airbus pilot really wanting to fly a boeing..blasphemy..it be nice if they just stick to the sen list =r

[Bombay HF]

Maybe they'll just let the guys who are flying the thing during the wet lease continue on never ending "short term" contracts, similar to what they did when they received those Singapore A340s five years ago. I've heard that when the lease ends those pilots will be let go by Jet.

[brassplate]

hey mephidopoulos, no research buddy. you are just being a sarcastic w@nker. since when did bus drivers want to fly boeings? (they will, seniority permitting, only if routes are better). on the other hand, a lot of ex-boeing guys can't wait to get off the bus and back to flying real planes.

[JetWSH]

Brassplate - If I were you I'd use the word w@nker with some reservation. People replied with sarcasm to your post because you seem to be elevated to the heights reserved for the U-2. Us mere mortals, aka, "Bus drivers" really couldnt give a toss about boeing or airbus. If you have flown a "real" plane before in your life you'd realize that whether you fly boeing or airbus, you really are just a BUS driver and this is just a regular office job. It's all the same. I'd love to slap an Airbus 318 sticker over that boeing sticker on your flight bag when you're not looking just for $hit$ and giggles. Really, grow up. We dont have to compare sizes anymore. :ok:

[Heleheleyani]

Referring to BOMBAY HF's comments about those Jet airways pilots that will be let go when the wet lease ends, isn't it the cheapest option for gulfair to recruit some of those guys into 777,

MY IDEA, I want my money :ok:

[40&80]

GF did it on the VC10, The L1011 and a little bit on the B767 and they made "Tempory Captains" "Permanent Captains"......so they do have "Previous"...as the police say.

[buba]

well if that happens maybe, quiet possible,there will be another 'no flying on days off/leave' ban again.

[Mephistopheles]

Come on guys, who cares who flies what. The simple truth of the matter is that the world is falling to pieces & yet Naff & his bunch continue to insist that we are doing the best business in years. They could be right, from a certain perspective but then how bad are we really doing. I have been long enough in this airline to know that as soon as management start congratulating themselves on a job well done that we will soon be in for a very big shock. If you don't believe me just wait & see...

[vomit comet]

:E:E i asked its by seniority!:E so the 340/330 capts are going first!,fos as well on that fleet!:E maybe u dont know brassplate but a lot of the captains and fos have boeing ratings with heavy time on the 767 and 737,and of course the tristar as well:E

[bus787]

Brass plate we understand you volunteered to transfer from Boing to the Bus.!!!!!

[Panama Jack]

Does this even really matter? A discussion of who flew what in the past?

At most of the worlds' airlines, fleet transfer to any other type, regardless of past type experience, is based on 1) seniority and 2) interest.

Any other suggestions, with regards to "I have over 2000 hours on Boeing 767's" or "Airbus people can't fly real airplanes" IMHO are both silly and immature.

[Albergineman]

There are some things that seem too hard to change... and it was taking too long until somebody starts to screw the topic.

:(

[ironbutt57]

Actually none of it matters..nobody at GF is more or less qualified than anybody else to fly Boeing as any recency has long since gone..so there is no reason whatsoever to circumvent the seniority system thats in place...

[Pixie Queen]

Well said said Mr. Butt. But will that transpire this time around? I'm still waiting to interview and number one on my wanting to work at Gulf is the adherence to an true seniority system. It benefits ALL!, in the short term and LONG run.
On another note, I hear that several class dates have been postponed/cancelled. What is going on in/at the Pink palace? Are the guys with class dates next year Jan-Feb-Mar still going to start as told by the chief pilot in the final interviews?

Thanks,
Curious

[ironbutt57]

As far as I know hiring is continuing as planned, heard there were some delays processing visas..many gov't holidays this time of year..

[Panama Jack]

Given all the rumors that come part and parcel with an airline, especially about management and the future of it at GF, I thought the following article provided interesting food for thought:

Effective airline leadership succession - exclusive analysis by Spencer Stuart | Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation (http://www.centreforaviation.com/news/2008/12/03/effective-airline-leadership-succession/page1)

[MAHABATEN]

Well done, totally agree. But, I think only opening a channel of conversation with management can save our seniority system at this stage once to give the opportunity to seniors guys to choose fly 777 they have to up grade juniors captains to wide bodies, up grade seniors FOs to a captains, FOs to a wide bodies and hire new people on bottom. I can't see this happening in couple months ahead they should start now and quickly. Looks like to be a excuse for later on hire rated guys just to be more convenience and cheaper. Doesn't matter who will fly what, let’s work as a team.

[ironbutt57]

It is happening now...

[Che Guevara]

MAHABATEN
If you are not aware of it, the training department is doing exactly what you are talking about....however there are limits to how much they can do and how fast they can do it....

[MAHABATEN]

Nice to know!!! It's to cover shortage or for extra planes to come?
Tke care,

[Che Guevara]

Both, however as I said the training department has it's limitations, whether it is simultor availability, instructor workload and so on.
Luckily for GF they have been able to hire a lot of type rated pilots due to the global economic slowdown and therefore are on their way to catching up with the shortfalls which until fairly recently was beginning to resemble a dog chasing it's tail...

Chao

[bushbolox]

People have been promised a command in 18 months if they join as an f/o on the bus(ex capt pre credit crunch). How does that fit in with your seniority list. :hmm:
They have accepted and begun trg.
Personnally Im enjoying early retirement with their partners whilst they are away trg. :E

[Che Guevara]

How does that fit in with your seniority list.

Well, quite simply they will have to stand in line behind a lot of well qualified and in some cases equally experienced pilots and oh yes, nearly forgot, inshallah.;)

[stefan1138]

Sorry to get off topic a bit, have the two Jet Airways A330 received some kind of Gulf Air titles?:confused: If so, are there any pictures? Or are they flying as standard Jet aircraft?

Thx and rgds Stefan

[Albergineman]

They are still boasting Jet Airways livery

:ok:

[Panama Jack]

stefan1138,

The wet-lease aircraft are entirely indistinguishable from the the rest of the Jet Airways fleet. The crews are Jet Airways crews wearing Jet Airways' uniforms, with the exception of two additional Gulf Air crew who provide Arabic language service.

[Che Guevara]

The big question is what livery are the 333s from ILFC coming in...the all new top secret one or the present one? Any rumours on this?

Cheers

[darrenbear]

Dont trust any interviewer saying you will get command in any time period (18months) unless its put in writing. :ugh:

I must stress that any HR department will not want their FO's getting Foxtrot Oscar and leaving as this is a cost to the company and gives them more work. Airlines should be honest and open about their recruitment policy, and the ability to progress. For example when a new type is introduced its logical that there will be an intake of direct entry Captains and FO's but a good employer will also ringfence a given number or positions for internal candidates. However this gives rise to a question of what to do with FO's who will never make command?

[stefan1138]

Thx for info on the livery of the jet aircraft.

Must be confusing for the paying Gulf Air passengers.

Rgds Stefan

[Che Guevara]

darrenbear,

For example when a new type is introduced its logical that there will be an intake of direct entry Captains and FO's but a good employer will also ringfence a given number or positions for internal candidates.

That sir, putting it nicely is simply not true. There is nothing logical about your statement and in any established airline it is simply not necessary nor is it standard practice.

Olbie is of course is quite correct with: How is that logical? Where did SQ, EK or QF find experienced 380 drivers?
Without giving my game away, I have worked for one of those carriers and I can assure you that what you are talking about never happened there nor will it.

[Panama Jack]

For example when a new type is introduced its logical that there will be an intake of direct entry Captains and FO's but a good employer will. . .

I assume you are talking about a completely disorganized airline. Yes, these types of things happen, but airlines that plan ahead at least a little don't. The ones that don't come up with all sorts of excuses and attempts at justifying their actions.

In school, my teacher didn't accept the excuse that "my dog ate the homework" and nor do I. :suspect:

[40&80]

Tough times...If you have to accept Gf management are going to swallow the seniority list and go the DEC route again....as said before GF have done it in the past.

[parabellum]

In 1989 GF employed two DEC captains, on three year contracts, onto the brand new and many still to come B767 but the only reason was they couldn't get enough simulator time to run full courses for non rated pilots and still crew the aircraft. Five days in Rio and straight to line training. (They also took in a few DEC Trainers about that time with a lot of type time and over fifty five years of age).

[Sidestick Priority]

Moral among pilots, especially for senior FOs, would be at all time low again if GF hire DEC.
And I wonder how are they going to manage the seniority issue.
You are going to have DEC at the end of the line, and senior FOs at the front. When new aircraft arrive, who get to go first?

And I wonder about this 18 months to command upgrade? I heard from the latest group of new recruits that it is 6 years, that is 72 months sir.

[Che Guevara]

PJ
"my dog ate the homework"
That is great one!...must remember it.
Chao

[ironbutt57]

Why do DEC discussions keep popping up?

[Bombay HF]

Maybe because every time someone sees you or mentions your name they think of DECs IB!;)

[Panama Jack]

Rotflol
:d

[Radar Contact]

Gulf Air got their 2nd A330-200 from Jet..

VT-JWE did KUL and DXB ;)

[MD-10]

Hello,
I think it should be in hangar, they r facing problems with them.

[brassplate]

they're having problems with them? understatement of the year, duh!!! they're having problems with all of them!!!
gf engineering INFECTS gf planes. it's a cancer of epidemic proportions. no matter how new their planes are, gf engineering will find a way ^#%$ing them up!

[Radar Contact]

WE: It did DXB today as 566

[wapses]

Do GF have any idea what they're doing?

With those clowns Bjorn the Swede and Terot the Finn in charge (and a board that knows nothing about aviation pulling the strings) maybe it's not surprising.

[brassplate]

whatever wrong decision there is to make, i guarantee you that gf will make it.

airlines cautious about expansion because of global downturn. gf expands
777 or a330? gf will go a330.
captains required and plenty of qualified f/os. gf brings in decs and ruins many peoples careers.
bring in new planes, gf engineering makes them old real quick.
bring in old planes, gf engineering will totally ruin them.

gf is the prolifically bad decision maker in the whole of the gcc and possibly the world!

[Mike.Park]

gf is the prolifically bad decision makerPerhaps they should replace their falcon with this --> :}

[stefan1138]

As per the Aerotransport.org database (which is mostly fairly accurate) Gulf Air will receive one brand new A332 from ILFC in January 2009. The aircraft was destined for XL Airways but it seems they went bust.

[Albergineman]

I was just wondering why many FO's have OFCE duty on the new rostering. Some of them have one and some two OFCE.

Any clue?

:suspect:

[picollo]

Pardon the ignorance, but what is OFCE duty?

[Sal-e]

Office duty me thinks.

[Mephistopheles]

Most probably something to do with the command assessment.

[Pixie Queen]

I think it has to do with the fact that:
-the department that Obtains the Visas' for its new recruits is NOT up to the challenge. There for, many(MANY) of the new pilots are stuck without a workVisa(needed to work) whilst they try and figure out what to do.

Now remember, I'm new to this...
Just my 2 pennies of a thought. :ouch:

[DustyBottoms]

In response to pilots being told during their interview about quick upgrades (1.5 yrs), I had a different experience. I just interviewed a few weeks ago, and was told that moving from the 320 to the 330/340 would be about 1.5 yrs, and that an upgrade (captain position) to the 320 would be around 4 yrs. The captains conducting the interview were also sure to point out that this IS the airline industry, and that things could change... they made it clear that those time lines could very easily change, and not to take it as set in stone.

I'm from the US, so my definition of an "upgrade" is a Captain, or PIC position, not moving to a shinier jet, so I may have misinterpreted the original post.

[Mike.Park]

Here's what made the press this morning! Well handled?

Passengers on board a Bahrain-bound Gulf Air flight from Mumbai had a providential escape last night after one of the aircraft's engines caught fire moments before take-off.

An air traffic control official (ATC) at Mumbai's Chhatrapati Shivaji International Airport said the fire was noticed 'just seconds' before Flight GD 065 was to go on 'full power' after being lined-up for take off.
"The aircraft had taxied for a few minutes and was awaiting ATC clearance to take off when the fire was noticed," the official, who did not wish to be named, told the GDN from Mumbai.

"Emergency services were alerted and the fire was put out immediately.
"The take-off was aborted and the plane came back for a complete check."
He said about half a dozen incoming and outgoing flights were affected.
A Gulf Air official in Mumbai said there was a "delay in departure' but would not elaborate.

"We are trying to ensure that all the 124 passengers are taken care of."
A Bahrain International Airport official confirmed there had 'been a problem' with a Gulf Air flight in Mumbai. "It is not arriving anytime soon and we do not know when it will."

The flight was scheduled to land in Bahrain at 6.50 pm.
Fred Governo, a Bahrain-based British businessman, who was on board, said there was complete chaos at the airport when the take-off was aborted. "The passengers also panicked for a while, but were later informed there had been a problem with the take-off."


Source: GDN (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=238232&Sn=BNEW&IssueID=31276)

[Che Guevara]

'just seconds' before Flight GD 065 was to go on 'full power'

You have to admire the prose.

[Pixie Queen]

I have an ops question. It sounds naive, even to me. BUT, What are the work rules/duty limits ect etc at Gulf Air ? What does your flight operations manual use for things like 30hrs in 7 days, 8hrs per day etc etc. Any references to read for this ? Is there an equivelant to our FAR's.

Thankssssssssss

[ironbutt57]

Along the lines of Cap371

[Pixie Queen]

I fatigued reading that. Are you permitted an attorney as part of your salary package ? :)


Am I correct in stating these few basics:

MAX-
55hrs in 7 days
95hrs in 14 days
100hrs in 28 days
900hrs in 12 months

Except night, whereas-

[ShirleyNot]

If you're fatiqued reading it try doing it (or GFs version of it). If you find you tire easily or are concerned by fatique issues then GF isn't the place for you. 2 things are certain, you WILL be fatiqued ALOT and it will mainly be CAVOK (which helps).

[Trader]

4 years to command eh!!!! I wonder how they calculate that. If there are no retirement the fleet essentially has to double for you to see a command. Now there will be retirements and attrition but how much.

Without a public fleet plan with concrete numbers I think this would be a bit optimistic.

[Che Guevara]

I wonder how they calculate that

Well it is posible with the current command upgrade program, the expansion plans and natrual attrition as you mentioned, however like most airlines, never bank on it till it happens.

[Pixie Queen]

Quit calling me Shirley ;)

But seriously, are those basics about right ?

You guys fly more than 8hrs a day on/in 320 turns ?

[ironbutt57]

Some blocks are more than 8hrs..Kolkata turn comes to mind..but bear in mind unlike the FAA, our rest is based equal to the previous duty period, or 12hrs..whichever is higher, and the limit is based on the number of sectors, and the reporting time

[brassplate]

hang on hang on hang on!!!!
only two posts regarding the engine fire out of mumbai?

once again, a reflection of gfs INFAMOUS ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT!!!
a most inept and lazy bunch of engineers i've ever seen!!
the king of MDDs!!
the infector of good aircrafts.

and the idiots who purchased these aircrafts should not be let off the hook. whoever they were should be sacked.

BEFORE SOMEONE GETS HURT, OR WORSE, KILLED!!!!!!

please, don't whitewash what is a clear and present danger in gf.

[Radar Contact]

Hi guys,

Anyone heard that GF will be taking the busted XL frames from TLS with the help of ILFC? Also, which aircraft was involved in the Mumbai incident - my money goes to ES or ET :P

[ironbutt57]

It was ES, and it had nothing to do with our engineering dept..high pressure turbine failure...

[stefan1138]

Out of four XL A330s two went to Mexicana, one is intended for Hi Fly from Portugal and one is intended for GF.

Are there any news concerning the Jet Airways leases and how many? Situation still unclear?

Rgds Stefan

[Radar Contact]

Hi Stefan,

They leased 2 A330's (RR) VT-JWD and JWE for 6 months initially then see how things go. Any idea about the MSN for the XL frame ?

[Mike.Park]

It was ES, and it had nothing to do with our engineering dept..high pressure turbine failure

Is there any more information on the apparent HPT failure? Was a full EVAC carried out as a result?

[brassplate]

hpt failure? maybe.
gf engineering had absolutely nothing to do with it? maybe.
aircraft purchased at the best value for money? maybe.
everything humanely possible done to prevent this occurrence? maybe.
wash wash wash those hands.

the one undeniable fact is that it HAD TO HAPPEN TO GF.

why?
because of an engineering culture of laziness and unaccountability.
because of commercial pressures outweighing safety.
because of incompetence in management across the board.
because of lack of planning with fleet renewels.
because of overworked pilots.
because of flagrant misinterpretations of flight duty periods.
because of pushy bean counters pressuring all departments for the sake of numbers alone.
because of lack of spares and parts continually bouncing between aircrafts like pingpong balls.
because of a style of management that is hell bent on making life miserable by default, even if for no financial gain, at times even for lossess.


defend it all you want. but this will continue until something really serious happens.

[Pixie Queen]

Well its obvious to me that Brassplate does NOT work at GF. To do so, or to even contemplate that, would mean that you are one miserable SOB. And I couldn't even emagine why a person would put themselves through that MISERY every day. I am very envious of you. You must work at one awesome airline. What carrier do you work for? :)

[Mike.Park]

Right. Because engine failures are absolutely unheard-of in other carriers.

True that. I suppose the deciphering factor would be how they are handled by each carrier.

[stefan1138]

Hi Radar Contact,

according to the information I have from aerotransport, the line number for the XL-330 is s/n 992.

Regards Stefan

[stefan1138]

Someone on airliners.net wrote that the first 340, A9C-LI will leave GF in January. Is this true? How many will leave in 2009?

Rgds Stefan

[buba]

back to work in a couple of days, a mate of mine says they had him workin for 17 days with 3 days off! thats something to look forward to...

[ShirleyNot]

GF don't know what they're going to do until about a minute before it actually happens!

[Mike.Park]

Gulf Air felt this was of up most importance so they released a statement:

Gulf Air's financial accounting department is now completely run by locals

Source: GDN (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=239443&Sn=BUSI&IssueID=31292)

A celebratory drink anyone?

[40&80]

Great news...now maybe Mrs Gammage the widow of the late Gf Captain Rad Gammage can get his GF life insurance and final saleries etc etc paid to her.

[Pixie Queen]

Shirley, I think you are correct about Gulf Air and its last minute culture.
Heard through the grapevine that 100% of newhire classes have multiple missing students. Not because the guys don't want to be there but because of unorganized, inefficient office clerks and peperwork shuffel-ers. Bummer for all those who are inbetween jobs and PAYchecks. :ugh:

[Che Guevara]

Hardly surprising considering the entire country (except the crew of course) has had 10 working days in the last 5 weeks.....yes, patience is a virtue Grasshopper.

[Che Guevara]

Hot off the foreign press....

Aircraft maintenance firm SR Technics (http://www.independent.ie/topics/SR+Technics+Group) has confirmed that it has lost one of its largest customers.
Gulf Air (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Gulf+Air+Company+GSC) has announced plans to terminate its contract with the firm in the coming months.

[Mike.Park]

Gulf Air told SR Technics in December that it was ending the contact this June, less than three years into a five-year term. Zurich-based SR Technics employs 1,200 people in Ireland.

Three SR Technics facilities will be affected by the change; Bahrain which has 240 staff exclusively working on Gulf Air aircraft, Dublin and Zurich.

A spokeswoman for SR Technics said it was too early to say what impact the contract termination will have on its Irish operations but added Gulf Air was one of its largest customers.

She said “losing the Gulf Air agreement will mean a substantial loss in our revenues, but does not threaten our company’s survival”.

Source: Irish Times (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0109/breaking54.htm)

[evilatp]

I hear that the plan is to wet lease the 777's for a year and then dry lease (if they decide to keep them). So no GF pilots will touch them for a year if at all.

[boiler]

I heard that GF is getting 4 B777s starting from March though May. 6 Months wet lease, 3 years dry lease. The 'board' have agreed to the terms and contract signing should have taken place already.

I think GF had tons of tons of problems with SRT and not a single a/c came out on time. If I am not mistaken, this is a Hoggie era decision to go with SRT.

[Trader]

My guess is not a single a/c came back from SRT on time because they were unfit!!!!!!!!!!! The nice thing (from a pilot point of view anyway) about a foreign engineer is that they will not sign out the aircraft unless it is airworthy and no management threats can force them.

Before SRT the engineers simply signed the crap back into service.

With new, local engineers, they can go back to the old ways.

[ODMEA]

Yet another reason I wisely walked away from GF. I'm not wasting my $$ on "Enshallah" engineering standards. The interiors are bad enough and now I have to worry about the tube staying in the air-no thanks.:ouch:

Oddy

[stefan1138]

Has it been decided by now if the two 332s from Jet which are currently wet-leased will be dry-leased by GF when the wet-lease ends?

Regards Stefan

[Mephistopheles]

So Trader I guess the SR Technics guys that dropped a 340 engine & that left a 330 flying around with 1 of the hydraulic accumulators for over a week(plenty more stories of f*** ups from our SRT engineers but I really don't want to waste even more time writing) were locals then?

[brassplate]

hang on, lets get this right.
gf engineers, in the form of any form, wrecks planes.
they are a cancer in the airline and any aircraft new or used, that enter gf service, will be infected by gf's engineers with all sorts of maladies.

they will butcher any aircraft that joins the fleet AS IF THEY'VE BEEN PAID BY A COMPETITOR TO DO SO.

[Che Guevara]

I find the most intersting point here with SRT is who owns the company...(it ain't Swiss anymore for sure)
Funny how Jimmy suddenly switched to SRT instead of Lufthansa the night before the signing ceremony don't you think...go figure.

[Trader]

Meph--it has nothing to do with nationality and everything to do with teh ability of GF to squeeze the line guys to do their bidding. If the guy works for someone else and can't lose his job for refusing to sign out the airplane then it causes problems for GF.

The mech's in Dublin can attest to that!!!!! How many airplanes went there for a week and stayed a month or longer!!!!

[Pixie Queen]

Not to step on any EGOs or to burst anyones bubble, but you should really stop calling Maintenance or specifically Mechanics, as Engineers. The guys/gals are far removed from being one or engineering these or any aircraft. When my aircraft breaks or I think it is broken, I want a mechanic to repair and or Fix it. And I would prefer the Engineer to remain in a comfy office somewhere designing a mo better Acft system. And BTW, I was an acft mechanic and I in no way ever thought of engineering anything, I just fixed it when it was broken. :)

[Mephistopheles]

USAPAScabs, I think you will find that;whether correct or not; most of the world call the people who fix our aeroplanes engineers. Also for your info a mechanic, again for most of the world, is someone that fixes a car. So, please, don't start trying to change things here even before you arrive.

[Ali Baba]

This is Oxford dictionary Eng/Mech so what do you know about steward? Oxford dictionary, is someone who looks after pigs? hey trader how you enjoying EK? Wife still teaching BAS engineering in BAH?

[Pixie Queen]

Yo Mephis, content on where I'm at !
No plans to ARRIVE there or anywhere else in the FUTURE :p
And btw...
A mechanic repairs and an Engineer designs. Sounds simple to me, unles those guys are out on the ramp redesigning things. Now that would esplain a lot from what I read here on these boards.

[Trader]

Hey Ali--lovin EK!!!!!! But believe you are thinking of Tbaylx whose wife teaches :)

[lars bennet]

Hi guys how it goes down there?

Does anybody can give me some details about how is work for Gulf Air, roster, salary, overnights and lifestyle in Bahrein.
I am an Alitalia F/O on A 320 wishing to move there to boost a little bit my career. Any hint or suggestion is appreciated guys...Many tanks in advance to all...


Lars Bennet.

[SilveR5]

Discussed many times before buddy...check few pages back or do the pprune search

Cheers

[mickeydazzler]

well said trader....nail on the head

i do miss my GF days...maybe many of us jumped the gun too soon

seems things are going well over there

dazzler

ps the plural of aircraft is still aircraft !

[boiler]

has been confirmed to me that 4 9w B777 will be joining the GF fleet for 3 years and that the old A340s are to be retired within 6 months. Add that to the 3 ex ME A330s and 4 brand new A320s in Q4 (plus 4 new in Q1 2010), this will be a very busy year for GF and its efforts to finally renew their worn-down fleet.

[stefan1138]

So, does this mean LB to LF (GF own aircraft) will go, or also LG to LI (leased from SQ/Boeing)?

Kind regards

Stefan

[ironbutt57]

"A mechanic repairs and an Engineer designs. Sounds simple to me, unles those guys are out on the ramp redesigning things. Now that would esplain a lot from what I read here on these boards."

When was the last time you saw an "engineer" on a train designing anything?? Ever been in the "engineering" spaces on a ship??

"Engineer" like "scab" has different meanings to different folks..I would suspect they are known as "maintenance engineers" in most of the world, and North America is in the minority .....Now a "shade-tree mechanic" is a whole different scene:p

[boiler]

From Flightglobal website
------------------
Gulf Air leasing four 777-300ERs to replace A340s
By David Kaminski-Morrow

Middle Eastern carrier Gulf Air is to acquire four Boeing 777-300ERs which it will introduce on routes including London Heathrow from March.

The Bahrain-based airline had been considering introducing larger-capacity types such as the 777 or Airbus A340-600.

Speaking to ATI at a briefing in London today, Gulf Air chief executive Bjorn Naf said the carrier would take all four 312-seat 777s this year, and lease them for around three years.

While Naf declines to identify the source of the aircraft, Gulf Air has already leased two Airbus A330s from India's Jet Airways, which has also been seeking to lease out several 777-300ERs.

The 777s would potentially serve as a replacement for a few of Gulf Air's current A340-300s. Naf says, if that option is pursued, some A340s could be removed from the fleet this year.


Gulf Air will put the 777 into service on the Heathrow route and Naf says the airline is considering using them on other popular routes such as Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur. It is also looking at the possibility of serving the US east coast with the type.

Naf admits that the fleet plan for the airline is "in flux" and that fine details are still being worked out.

Gulf Air expects to receive five Airbus A320s this year, which it expects will replace at least four of its current A320s.

It will also acquire four A330s - one new and three ex-Middle East Airlines airframes - of which two will replace current jets and two will be used for expansion. In total the airline expects to receive 13 aircraft over 2009, primarily for replacement.

Gulf Air has 20 A330s on order as well as 15 A320s.

Naf says the carrier will take its first ordered A330 in the third quarter of 2010, giving the company about 18 months to improve cabin seating. But he adds that the airline is in discussions with Airbus to bring later widebody deliveries forward.

Gulf Air also has up to 24 Boeing 787s on order. While 787 deliveries have "moved", Naf says Gulf Air is hoping they will be brought back on track by the scheduled arrival date of 2016.

[ShirleyNot]

Does this mean that on the 330 we will not be operating LHR after March? I really hope that doesn't happen, I cant get a decent Guiness from anywhere else at the moment. naf naf naf!

[Pixie Queen]

Very good, IronButt.

ps.
but when one pilot has
as his sole objective to
steal your job, that
would be a SCAB

[Mephistopheles]

Well, I just hope everyone doesn't get too excited with the 777 coming & start climbing & crapping over each other in order to get transfered since I believe that once the 'wet' part of the lease is over the guys will be offered premanent short-term(???) contracts!!!

[fullforward]

Heard it through the grapevine.
Make sense. Everthing today is about cost cutting: to get extremely experienced, type rated crew, immediately, ready to go...whithout having to spend a penny in trainning etc.

[polarus]

Don`t do it ...

I have been lied to and cheated! EX: I was told during my interview that housing was part of my contract when I arrived. A month after arrival, I walked into the "housing" office only to be told we have NO housing ... go find your own! The first contract break!!!

Don`t do IT ... read the previous 20 pages of SCARY posts and you will understand why I left!

Miserable place just Miserable ...

[Sal-e]

Hey Polarus,
guess what? That's how we all reacted when we first arrived. It does take getting used to.
Gulf Air does not have any houses available. In fact, I may have taken one of the last ones available.
But once you're on your feet, it ain't half bad. Meanwhile, make some friends, locals and expats. There will be plenty of advice out there that are borne out of real experiences so take heed.
The ones who have stayed enjoy it out here. The ones who leave after a short time are probably not suited for GF anyway.
But things are improving.
All the best.

[Pixie Queen]

Pay Doubled, since you started there?? :eek:
If true, that's fantastic. Last I heard, from a friend that is currently flying the line was that these were the most current numbers:

Single person-
Basic pay- 2100bd
Housing allowance- 550bd
Communication- 13bd
Transport- 40bd
Utility- 21bd
Flight Hour- 6bd
Duty hour- 1.5bd
Over 75hrs, perhour- 20bd
Fly on dayoff- 35bd plus a day off in future

[ShirleyNot]

polaris, let me get this right, GF actually told you that they would 'give' you a house? That is quite amazing since they haven't had any (that you can actually live in) for the last few years.
'its getting better', that should be the GF motto, I've heard it from day 1. Not a bad place though.

[Sal-e]

Actually, the total increases that I can think of being married with 3 kids is around 70% from my original package when I joined a couple of years ago. Combine that with the favourable exchange rates with Australia and voila........like getting a AUD5000/mth payrise!!
Of course each individual case will vary as we're not all from Australia or married with children. But certainly in my case, it was a winfall!!

[Pixie Queen]

Hey guys, in regards to HAVING to fly on day off, do you really get that day off in the future ?
Or do they just compensate you the 35bd and the day-off is never heard of or seen again ?

Or do you do like over here, don't answer the phone on your day off ?:E

[surfer of desert]

Hi USAPAS,

If you sell your FULL day off = BD 100, and your dont see anymore, it is deduce from your bank leave. But your sell your PARTIAL day off = BD 35, they will five back our day OFF and you still with your 'DAY OFF' in your bank leave.
cheers:ok:

[Pixie Queen]

What is the difference between: Full day and Partial day off

[Albergineman]

In both cases you will get back your DAY OFF since as per regulation we need 24 DAYS OFF in three roster periods.
The difference is for Bd35 (Partial) you just get your DAY OFF in the current or (mandatory) in the next two roster periods. For Bd100 (Full) you get your DAY OFF in the same condition described before but you loose one LEAVE DAY from your balance for each DAY OFF you sell.

Cheers!

:ok:

[ironbutt57]

Surer just got the terminology a bit off...there is "full sell" and "partial sell" when working a day off..however there is no "partial day off"...a day off includes two local nights..

"full sell" is around 150bd for a capt..which knocks a day off of your leave balance

"partial sell" is 50bd for a capt and does not affect your leave balance

in all cases the day off is returned to you within the next 3 roster periods, as GF only rosters the minimum 8 off in a 28 day period

[jetjockey737]

Hi. Can anyone shed a littlie light on a couple of points for me.

Best place to live on the Gulf air budget ( married F/O )?

On a 320 roster how often would I be able to get back to the UK to see kids from previous relationship?

Ta in advance

JJ

[sunset79]

check your PM's JJ 737

[Pixie Queen]

Sunset, Many could use that information. Please do share.

[Radar Contact]

Hey guys,

All I can say that the 2009 Livery for the F1 will be :ok: - It will be applied on A9C-KH that's all I can say for the moment though :mad:

[bus787]

Check the EY 340 AMAZING.
When will Gf do it one week before the GP date ??Like last year

[Mephistopheles]

Of course it will be painted late, after all this is Gulf Air. Anyway Naff & co. are way too busy promoting all their pals from consultants to full time employees with nice shiney band new titles & fat pay checks to go with it.

[skywaytoheaven]

I thought we were getting rid of Naff. Doesn't seem much point since nobody with any balls can do that job anyway.

[F100]

Hi, I have a question about the situation in Gulf air. I would like to apply for FO (Jet experience), but I have B737 NG experience and Fokker 100 only, no Airbus.
Do you remember some more information about selection process. If you can help me with some info, please use my email.
Thanks.

Rado
[email protected]

[F100]

thanks for info
([email protected])

[Mustapha Rex]

What a foul place that pink palace is incompetence oozes from every orifice!

Glad i left it and the island for good!

[Mike.Park]

What effect (if any) will this have on Gulf Air?
Will loyal f-class pax start looking elsewhere?




Airline alcohol ban step closer

MPS yesterday voted unanimously to ban alcohol on all Gulf Air flights, saying that the government had no excuse since it now fully owned the airline.

The proposal, submitted by a cross section of MPs, will now go to the Cabinet for study. It was backed across-the-board by MPs, who questioned the government's delay in banning in-flight alcohol, saying it should have been done voluntarily a long time ago.

The main campaigner, Al Menbar MP Shaikh Mohammed Khalid Mohammed, said the sale, distribution and drinking of alcohol was banned by Islam.

"Bahrain's Constitution states that the country's religion is Islam, yet the government isn't adhering to Islamic values and principles," he said.

"Alcohol is a reason for a lot of problems, not just in Bahrain but all around the world, since those who consume it are unaware of their actions and will do things that are immoral and against the law.

"Whether it is on flight or in any other outlet in the country, alcohol shouldn't be served.

"Banning it on flights will certainly give us a better image than the one we have."
Shaikh Mohammed said many of the airline's Bahraini and Muslim employees were complaining that Islam bans them from serving alcohol, but they were forced to do so to keep their jobs.

"A lot of people want to join the business, but they never do so because they don't want to do things contradicting their principles," he said.
"There are other GCC airlines which don't offer alcohol in flight and their business hasn't suffered, in fact it has increased and I believe that Gulf Air would benefit if it did the same."

Shaikh Mohammed asked for a comment from officials from the Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company, which owns Gulf Air, who were at the session. But his request was rejected by parliament chairman Khalifa Al Dhahrani.

"So what are they doing here if you don't want us to listen to their comment? We want to know if they agree with our proposal or not," said Shaikh Mohammed.
The proposal has been now referred to the Cabinet to study.

A Mumtalakat spokesperson told the GDN after the session that the proposal would be studied first, before any decision is taken. A Gulf Air official would not comment.

[Mustapha Rex]

Another step towards the grave.....:}

[brassplate]

didn't anyone tell them that forcing religious ways upon others is rude?

[Che Guevara]

:rolleyes:

Cheers

[Albergineman]

As written above, they will study the proposal and this is not the first time they try to ban it. It will take time anyway.

This is an old subject between GF and the Parliament...

:rolleyes:

[ODMEA]

First engineering, now alcohol....taking my F class loyalty elswhere has left me with no doubts I pulled stumps at the right time with GF. It is amazing the airline is already lagging in terms of soft and hard product, yet they will still disregard the hard business facts and further deteriorate their standing.

There was a brief period when the new F and J seats, In Flight Chef and menus, with new lounge happened that really buoyed me along with the sanity of BAH as a hub. That has all eroded now and GF is akin to a leper..everything is slowly falling away. I should have realised when the water feature stopped working in the lounge and it was never fixed and turned all cloudy that it was a divine sign of things to come..and two years later it was indeed a pertinant sign.

I will still say Good Luck to GF and really hope they make it - it just seems unlikely. Correct me if I'm wrong, however, the only real reason GF still operates is the fact it employs so many locals that it would be catastrophic for the Kingdom should they all lose their jobs from a GF collapse.

Oddy.

[Mike.Park]

What really ticks me off is the lack of public opposition to these ridiculous proposals.

MP Shaikh Mohammed Khalid Mohammed says the constitution states that Bahrain's religion is Islam.

If you look at Bahrain's constitution under Chapter 1 [Article 2], it clearly states that "Islam Sharia is a principle source for legislation".

It doesn't say that Islam is THE EXCLUSIVE source
It doesn't say that Islam is THE SOLE source
It doesn't say that Islam is THE ONLY source

He goes on to say alcohol is a reason for "a lot" of problems in Bahrain.

He gives no evidence to support this claim. I'm pretty darn sure if we were furnished with crime statistics, you'd find that the vast majority of crimes committed in Bahrain are non-alcohol related even though alcohol is readily available in clubs/bars/restaurants/off-licences etc

[tbaylx]

It's the bridge to Saudi that causes alot of alcohol related problems, not the booze itself.

[Chuck Y]

Believe me there is plenty of opposition to the parliament by the educated Bahrainis but our MPs pander to,for lack of a better word, donkeys of our little island. Thank God that we do NOT live in a proper democracy, otherwise we would all be forced to grow beards, marry our cousins, pray 85 times a day, spit at all non-muslims amongst otherthings. These bearded fools even insist that Sistani(An Iraqi cleric) should give his approval before the government ammends any laws?!?!

[boiler]

Chuck Y, maybe it is time you take a breather. Such words are spiteful and stereotypical, and totally baseless. Shame.

[Mike.Park]

Thank God that we do NOT live in a proper democracy, otherwise we would all be forced to grow beards

Like you would call the forced imposition of a single religion on everyone a "proper democracy"? Bahrain would remain an undemocratic nation either way.

Constitutionally separate politics from religion and there might be light at the end of this tunnel.

[Chuck Y]

Mike.Park, I never claimed to be an advocate of democracy especially in this part of the world. Can you name one sucessful "experiment" with democracy for me? If we voted for the polictal entities that would really work for the country & the people I believe that many Western countries would not except the outcome & would find ways to void the ballot. I guess I am just a big dictator at heart!!!
Boilermaker, unfortunately I am speaking the truth. Our politicians & religious leaders are intolent, arrogant, xenophobic uneducated idiots. You should check out how many of the MPs that are supposed to be shaping this country both politically & economically have completed secondary school.

[40&80]

I will swap you Gordon Brown and throw in Mr Darling if the Bahrain government would come over and sort out the Uk.

[Mustapha Rex]

I would not go as far as seeing how many MP's have secondary education, just check out the majority of Bahrainis working for GF who can string a sentence and the expats they hire like Herr Naff who completed his degree in a 2 minute university.

I used to be in total disagreement with ODMEA but I am glad he has finally seen the light, or the lack thereoff!

Good luck boys!

May not be easy elswhere, but no one has time for any of the nonsense that goes on at GF. My flag, my country BS, and gorging themselves on the facilities like mosquitoes on sweet white skin.

[EGGW]

Calm down you lot, cut out the religous stuff, or this thread gets binned and the posters banned. No democracy here, right :E:E

EGGW

[DesertHawk]

sounds like chuck is bahraini? anyways guys who really cares about this crap? a long time ago i realized WE can not do anything so chill out collect the check and if or when ur freedoms and liberties are impeded on leave. i am not an advocate of if u dont like it go with the airline persay but there is some steadfast opposition to common sense in the palace deal with it. anyways lets have better topics like arguing over 777's that is more FUN!!!

[Mephistopheles]

Coming soon to an inbox near you...
..."Are you interested in transferring to the B777... other details to follow shortly."

[RandyBMC]

I am interested in any info on the hiring plans and interview questions. I have been on the 737, and I am currently in A320 training (have a 737 SIC type and will have an unrestricted A320 type next month). I have to find something by May, when I get furloughed.

Thanks for the help!
Randy
[email protected]

[widebody300er]

Do you have to be typed to get an interview wirh Gulf Air? Are they hiring?
Thank you
Widebody300er

[Che Guevara]

Widebody300er
I assume you mean on the A-320, if so I think all the current newhires are typed and yes, we are hireing.

[Cam32]

Airline shake-up plea



By MOHAMMED AL A' ALI

MANAMA

PARLIAMENT yesterday demanded that Gulf Air president and chief executive Bjorn NŠf be sacked, saying he is not up to the job.The call follows a meeting between parliamentary financial and economic affairs committee and airline board members, led by executive committee chairman and director Jawad Habib Jawad.

A statement issued later through parliament's general secretariat called for a "search for a new chief executive who has the qualifications and experience necessary for a commercial airline".

It also called for four expatriate chiefs of various divisions to be replaced by Bahrainis.

Of six such posts, only two are held by Bahrainis.

"It is important to Bahrainise higher leadership posts, especially higher administrative posts, giving Bahrainis priority in employment, education and training," said the statement.

It stressed that the company should not get rid of any Bahrainis, but questioned the education and experience of expatriate employees, including those in the most senior posts.

MPs say the airline's problems have continued under Mr NŠf's leadership and that he has employed expatriates in high-ranking posts for which they have neither the experience nor qualifications.

The meeting, called to discuss the company's problems and measures taken to solve them, was also attended by Finance Ministry officials.

It was convened by the committee, which has been holding extensive meetings with the company.

"Nothing has changed over the past two years, since the new chief executive was appointed - on the contrary, he has created more problems and this is why we believe he should go," said committee vice-chairman Abdulhaleem Murad.

"What's worse is that no-one knows who is running the company - is it the board, Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company or the ministry?

"We welcome anyone with the qualification and credentials to be part of the management, whether Bahraini or not, but the current people don't match these criteria.

"Out of the six (division) chiefs only two are Bahrainis and what's worse is that the strategy consultant, who is also an expatriate, is 35 years old, which means that he has no experience and we are not sure about his educational background."

Committee chairman Abduljalil Khalil said the company should come up with a strategy to Bahrainise rather than "foreignise".

"Bring in qualified people, who could help train and guide Bahrainis to take leadership posts in future, but don't bring in people who do nothing.

"I am not saying from the top of my head that they are doing nothing - the company's deficit is a good example of what I am talking about.

"Two years of nothing, two years of more problems, two years of no transparency and the company is yet to provide parliament or the public with real numbers on its current financial status."

Mr Khalil said that parliamentary blocs and independent MPs postponed setting up a committee to probe into the company's affairs two weeks ago, but was set to take it up again next week.

"We can't go on listening to the same thing again and again and again. We have to investigate the problems and a probe committee is the solution.

"The postponement decision was taken because we wanted to have precise fields of investigation."

MPs quizzed airline representatives about senior officials' nationalities, education and experience, demanding that all six (division) chiefs be Bahrainis.

They also questioned officials on the alleged mounting losses and whether the company was following the Tender Board's directives.

The meeting also focused on the airline's contracts for maintenance work and the amount spent.

Committee secretary Dr Aziz Abul said that it would hold more meetings to try to solve problems.

"We have asked for information in writing, in addition to what the committee has received."

Gulf Air officials were not available for comment.

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

The cycle starts again!

[bus787]

CAM you missed something.

NO ALCOHOL.

Thank you GF.

[Cam32]

The developements are coming thick and fast in the GDN. Can't keep up. :eek:

Glad to see today, opposition by local business people to the proposed alcohol ban . It would be even harder to compete with this religious restriction in place on GF flights.

The food is halal, the staff make arrangements for single females to be seperated from males. Sometimes at the expense of OTP. Other airlines outside the region don't have these factors to take into account.

I would expect most of the European flights to have their loads slashed within days of the ban. More business to the other more 'Business Friendly' Gulf carriers. :ok:

[Trader]

Therin lies the brilliance of the MP's in Bahrain - 'he is 35 so he can't have any knowledge or experience' they scream!!! With this type of 'leadership' in government is there any hope??? It is those morons who should be ousted. If you can't develop a simple argument then one, you should not be an MP, and two, you should keep your mouth shut.

[DesertHawk]

i agree! but the more i think about it is it any different back home? are all MP's just naturally challenged everywhere?

[Gaius Westman]

Hogan is worse.

[nobody1903]

another sad think is that you have some pilots in gulf air that suport our esteem MP's. Ban alchohol, sack the expats, let the 10 year old girls get married and the list goes on.:yuk:

[undersiege]

Let the locals take over all aspects of the airline.... When they stuff everything up and the airline has to close it's doors for good, I say...... PROBLEM SOLVED.

[Mike.Park]

More comedy in Bahrain's Gulf Daily News today.



Millions wasted on wages and bonuses

GOVERNMENT money is being squandered on high wages and bonuses for key officials at Gulf Air while the airline is failing, says a top MP.

Millions of dinars are going into the wrong pockets, says parliament financial and economic affairs committee chairman Abduljalil Khalil.

The Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company, which owns Gulf Air is pumping money into a recovery strategy that has yet to materialise, he said yesterday.

"Thousands of dinars go into president and chief executive Bjorn Naf's pockets and those of other key officials every month (in salaries), rather than being spent on the airline's growth, whether through training and educating Bahrainis, or developing services," said Mr Khalil.

"We are not against the government's injection of money into the company, but are against it being wasted on wages and bonuses for people who are doing nothing, considering that in past two years, since the chief executive was appointed, nothing major has happened.

"MPs want the company to stand on its feet again, we don't just want that, we want Gulf Air to fly.

"This will never happen with the current mismanagement going on, considering that the government will pump money every year, without any profits being expected even in 20 years."

Parliament demanded last Thursday that Mr Naf be sacked, saying he is not up to the job.

The call followed a meeting between parliament's financial and economic affairs committee and airline board members, led by executive committee chairman and director Jawad Habib Jawad.

A statement issued later through parliament's general secretariat called for a "search for a new chief executive who has the qualifications and experience necessary for a commercial airline".

It also called for four expatriate chiefs of various divisions to be replaced by Bahrainis.

Out of six such posts, only two are currently held by Bahrainis.
"It is important to Bahrainise higher leadership posts in the company, especially higher administrative posts, giving them priority in employment, education and training," said the statement.

It stressed that the company should not get rid of any Bahrainis, but questioned the education and experience of expatriate employees, including those in the most senior posts.

MPs say the airline's problems have continued under Mr Naf's leadership and that he has employed expatriates in high-ranking posts for which they have neither experience nor qualifications.

"We want a new chief executive other than Mr Naf, because we believe he is wrong for the post," said Mr Khalil.

"If a replacement is sought, a Bahraini is preferable, but we have no problem with a capable expat, who can lead the company into the future.

"We wouldn't have faced problems having a replacement for Mr Naf or other key officials, if Bahrainis were trained and educated by the company to handle key posts."

Mr Khalil said that MPs were upset with the way Gulf Air was being handled by key officials.

"We have identified the main problem and we are looking for ways to solve it and will not stop until we believe that the company is going in the right direction."
Mr Khalil said on Thursday that parliamentary blocs and independent MPs had postponed setting up a probe committee into the company's affairs two weeks ago, but was set to bring it again tomorrow.

Gulf Air officials would not comment.

[Mike.Park]

It also called for four expatriate chiefs of various divisions to be replaced by Bahrainis.

And that will solve all of problems associated with Gulf Air?

It stressed that the company should not get rid of any Bahrainis, but questioned the education and experience of expatriate employees, including those in the most senior posts.

Right... so the educational background and experience of Bahraini nationals are exempt from scrutiny?

We wouldn't have faced problems having a replacement for Mr Naf or other key officials, if Bahrainis were trained and educated by the company to handle key posts

Am I really reading this?

Gulf Air officials would not comment.

No surprises there.

[wapses]

That just about summarises the problems.

Gulf Air do happen to have an incompetent CEO, but which competent replacement would even consider taking over the reins when MPs are going to criticise every move. It has become a real poisoned chalice.

And Gulf Air's problems are NOT going to be solved by appointing Bahrainis to senior positions ... unless there are some suitably skilled individuals hiding out there somewhere.

[Ali Baba]

Well there are a lot qualify for this position in GF
1, Al ansaries Mafios brothers and cousins
2, A Al saeedi (This guy can ferry A/C with gear down with pax flt pln fuel and oppss not enough fuel . land in syz,still insist can prove it in the sim.
3,There is new Tom cruise, Nadir Alshehab, watch this guy power hungry
4,Couple more:mad:leaker. One of them will be.My airline my country my big mother :mad: mess up airline then bang no boose no chicks no money. then we go back to the brits and cry HEEEEEEELP:ugh:

[Not too small]

We just need a good man up there with good history and we have to compete with others to get him not like the rest we fined them jobless on the streets throwing there applications all over or some that there mothers told them you will be a good CEO in the future (you are not too small)

[brassplate]

at the end of the day, it all comes down to the sunni dictators against the shiite militants and everyone else will be in the crossfire.
nothing on gods earth will ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever change that.
if one side has their way, bahrainisation will be done at all cost. if the other, there'll be black flags down the aisle and flight attendants will be fully covered.
the members of parliament with the big mouths have a right to voice their concerns but are completely off the mark with the areas that need fixing. the fact is that the board runs the airline. that is where the investigations should begin, not at expat managers.
in any case, it will be a long time before bahrainis can properly run their own affairs.

[Mike.Park]

In other news, it looks like MPs are pushing to ban alcohol all together at Bahrain airport. It'll include First Class lounges and Duty Free.




MPs vote to ban alcohol at airport

By MOHAMMED AL A'ALI

MPs yesterday voted to ban all alcohol sales at Bahrain International Airport, including duty free.

The move comes two weeks after parliament voted to demand a ban on alcohol on all Gulf Air flights.

MPs yesterday urged the government to start acting as a Muslim country, by abiding by Islamic values and principles, stipulated in the Constitution.

Parliament foreign affairs, defence and national security committee vice-chairman Abdulhussain Al Metgawie said that there were a lot of Bahraini and other Muslim workers at the airport, who were being forced to serve alcohol.

"The sale and serving of alcohol is wrong and forcing Muslims to do it is worse.
"Alcohol should be banned at the airport and on all Gulf Air flights and the minister has to act fast, as we will not stop until what is needed is done."

Source: GDN

[Icarus]

Are Malaysian Airlines and/or Garuda Indonesia dry airlines? Are their home base airports dry? Far from it. And these are the two largest Islamic states on the planet.

At Bahrain I believe alcohol is only available airside and thus one is technically out of the country anyway. Wouldn't another solution to allow a continuance of service be to employ only non-muslims for airside duties?

Anyway, the way things are going in Bahrain, surely the mass expulsion of expatriate staff shall be enough to negate the sale of alcohol anyway - hence the MP's should concentrate on their bigger goal of 100% Bahrainisation so that these lesser evils simply disappear into the ether as there will remain no market requirement for alcohol or prostitutes. (Me thinks not!)

[left_to_first_class]

No alcohol = no saudis = no money.
Enuf said.

[Ali Baba]

NO ALCOHOL? ARE YOU CRAZY .HOW CAN ANYONE STAY IN BAHRAIN WITHOUT ALCOHOL? THEY ARE IS NOTHING TO DO IN BAH EXCEPT GETTING DRUNK.AND YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT AWAY? :mad: FOR SURE I WILL RESIGN .DONT KNOW ABOUT THE OTHERS.

[surfer of desert]

they should allow us to put some "good things" inside the SHISHA, to compensate the alcohol lost:zzz:

[brassplate]

bunch of hypocrites. if they want to turn bahrain into iran and grow the bootlegging business, it's up to them. all they will have achieved is turn alcohol from being the biggest legal vice to being the biggest illegal vice. hell, most of the alcohol in the region is hiding in saudi arabia and kuwait anyway, everybody knows that.
the big issue i have against this is that more and more people will end up taking their own alcohol in shot flasks. 10mls of hard liquor can still turn anyone into an uncontrollable drunk.
at least when passengers are being served alcohol, they are also being monitored at the same time and can be refused if the flight attendant deemed it prudent.

[T O G A Boy]

All i can say is that our MPs are nothing but a complete waste of space and no one but them are going to ruin Bahrain and the airline. Or should i say, whatever is left of them..Nuf said.

[Dixons Cider]

The longbeard fools are just bandstanding, again.
The true power brokers know that to shut down alchohol alltogether will be business suicide, and that isn't something bahrain can afford to do.

tell them they're dreamin!!

[Sal-e]

An important point worth mentioning is the codeshare or alliance agreements that may be jeopardised if the alcohol ban is legislated.

If GF is part of one of these alliances, there is a minimum service requirement that members of the codeshare or alliance need to maintain in order to remain in the fold. What a shame if GF gets disqualified because of this minor technicality.

Another point is that Gulf Air is an international airline with the travelling majority being non-muslim. Is it right for a few MPs to impose their religious views on this non-muslim majority that pumps the majority of revenue into GF?

There was a mention of muslim flight attendants being 'forced' to serve alcohol as part of their job description. Funny that 99.99999% of the worlds flight attendants has that same duty in their job description. It is part and parcel of the industry of their chosen profession.
All I can say to that is;
If you don't like working with ****, you shouldn't be a plumber.
If you don't like working with dirt, you shouldn't be a gardner.
If you don't like working with animals, you shouldn't be a vet.
If you don't like working with blood, you shouldn't be a butcher.
Get my point?
What a shame if alliances, revenues, international standards etc are going to be put at risk because of a few flight attendants who wish to perform some aspects of the job and not others.

I tend to agree with brassplate on this one. Control of legal alcohol consumption is far better than uncontrolled illegal alcohol consumption.
Illegal drugs, maid bashing, dodgy drivers from across the border, roadworks that refuse to end, 24 hour shwarma joints, and anti government riots are more life threatening in Bahrain than all others put together and worthy of all the MPs time and attention.
Saudi Arabia or Iran are good examples of where Bahrains will end up heading if the MPs get their way. A friend of mine once travelled with a representative of Johnny Walker who claims that at least 90% of the entire sales of their products are to, lo and behold, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, supposedly the dry states in the region.

[wapses]

GF as you surely must know is not a member of any of the major alliances.

Serving or not serving alcohol would not have an effect on any code-share arrangement.

However I agree it would be commercial suicide to contemplate such a move.

[Mike.Park]

it would be commercial suicide to contemplate such a move

Gulf Air's regional competitors are grinning from ear to ear!

[Mephistopheles]

Well guys all of you that thought you might get a chance to fly the 777 & that have already got all the study material for the course will be very sad to hear that the deal is off.

[brassplate]

but it was ALWAYS going to be a wait and see anyways. you can always count on gf to fcuk things up any way there is to fcuk things up. it's a guarantee. like the running of their parliament.

[bus787]

These Muslim Flight attendants in Gulf air are using this as an excuse.

Most of the Bahrainis Egyptians Moroccans Syrian and all are Lazy Crew looking for Money for Nothing.They rely on the others to do the job.

What is better than working on a 7hr flight and just sit on the JS waiting for the call Evacuate Evacuate.

Probably the MP s are being served in Private.

[boiler]

Well guys all of you that thought you might get a chance to fly the 777 & that have already got all the study material for the course will be very sad to hear that the deal is off

Where did u hear that from? I talked to a GF friend of mine and the deal is still on with plans to get the aircraft on March 1.

[buba]

and the rusty cogs go round and round

[Chuck Y]

The memo is out from N.S. regarding whether you are interested or not in transferring to the B777 in order of seniority-I know that's going to be a kick in teeth for some of the B767 guys that believe it's their divine right to have priority for transfer. So it looks like the new birds are on their way after all.

[jackbauer]

If a memo is what you judge GF's intentions by, then God help you! Just ask the guys in the past who turned up for day 1 of their upgrade course only to be told it was cancelled. There are lies, damned lies, statistics and memo's.:ouch:

[SubsonicMortal]

So where is this memo? Nothing in our company inboxes...

[Chuck Y]

It's on the company webmail.

[PAR31]

Well Chuck Y,

if I received the same MEMO that you are talking about it's not talking anywhere of 777 but only of fleet transfer.:confused:

Par31

[Panas1974]

how come i have not receive anything?

[Chuck Y]

Well PAR31 you could be right but i cant see why it would be sent to all pilots including A330/340 guys. I do not think there are many that are dying to fly the A320:confused::confused::confused:

[Capt Hair Y Balls]

ChuckY,

Well PAR31 you could be right but i cant see why it would be sent to all pilots including A330/340 guys. I do not think there are many that are dying to fly the A320

Assumption is the mother of all fu:mad:k up's

[madog]

Hello!
Do you know if there is any italian pilot working for Gulf Air ?

[brassplate]

....."If you are NOT interested in being transferred, please inform the fleet office in writing at least two months in advance."

two months in advance of what? fleet transfer? are the guys getting that much notice? why is this such a big deal?

[Panama Jack]

Do you know if there is any italian pilot working for Gulf Air

Yes, there are.

[SubsonicMortal]

So... the B777 letter has been sent.

I'm not impressed with the conditions in the least.

What is your opinion?

[Albergineman]

Three years of training bond is against what is stated in the FCAM (Flight Crew Administration Manual) where is written that any bond should not exceed 2 years.

Check it out guys!

Cheers!

[brassplate]

as always, gf trying to make a big deal out of a new type in the company. hey gulf air, where have you been? you're the last airline in the entire region to get the 777s. and second hand indian ones at that. stop making a big deal. you're demeaning the pilots.

[Panama Jack]

I wonder if the Company will publish an updated seniority list so that pilots can see where they stand? The last one was published back in July 2008, and since then there has been movement upwards, inwards and outwards.

[SubsonicMortal]

Albergineman - you are almost correct. The rule only applies for initial induction into GFA. So, from my interpretation, a fleet to fleet transfer does not fall within that policy. I wish it is the case though, unless I'm missing something in the FCAM?

[jetblue bus boy]

Are the pay scales printed anywhere? How much $ is expected First year FO on the 320.

[brassplate]

management, whoever they deem themselves to be, has seen fit to unilaterally declare a three year bond for the type rating...probably to the tune of 30000 bds.
i would really like to know the reason behind the constant shift in policy. why is there new conditions when there are already procedures in place for this? what the hell is the big deal?

[Albergineman]

That's true Subsonic and the only thing missing is exactly this situation (transfer between fleet) and I think it is not more than three years due to a Bahrain Labour Law restriction.

:ok:

[brassplate]

and the slide backward and attack against personal freedoms continues.

</title> </head> <body topmargin="0" leftmargin="0" rightmargin="0" bottommargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0"> <div align="left"> <table border="0" width="1000" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" id="table1"> <tr> <td valign=top> <div align="lef (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=242529&Sn=BNEW&IssueID=31326)

yet, dangerous terror suspects have more rights.

</title> </head> <body topmargin="0" leftmargin="0" rightmargin="0" bottommargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0"> <div align="left"> <table border="0" width="1000" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" id="table1"> <tr> <td valign=top> <div align="lef (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/story.asp?Article=242522&Sn=BNEW&IssueID=31326)

[Panama Jack]

"Pig products, or pork, should be kept away from our markets because it is clear they are harmful and have no other benefit."



I haven't read your second article yet, brassplate, but I am hoping it is an equally strong statement by the MP's against smoking and the harmful effects of tobacco and nicotine.

I don't get much into religion, having been largely turned off by all of the wicked things people do "in the name of God," however, I suspect that if cigarettes had existed back in the days of the prophets that they would have come out with an even stronger statement against them.

Yet I find the language of Bahrain's MP's to be one of increasing intolerance towards others, putting at risk the "Business Friendly Bahrain" image and other images of tolerance that the country tries hard to project to attract tourism and investment. Combine this local phenonemon with a global economic crisis and it begins to sound like part of a perfect storm theory.

[Sal-e]

I will have to agree with the harms of cigarettes, Panama Jack. Especially when the bus that picks up my kids for school reeked of cigarette smoke.

[left_to_first_class]

I thought Pork and related products was only sold by a few outlets (al jazeera being one of them) and that too in a separate section?

Actually I was pretty much surprised that you could get this in Bahrain but hey at least I can have a good english breakfast at the weekends:ok:.

I'm waiting for a ban on other religious building in Bahrain, as surely that will come in due course.:(

[GAGing in Bahrain]

Guess they'd better change the slogan to "Wahhabi Friendly Bahrain" :suspect: as there will soon be no business in Bahrain as it will have all moved to "Business Friendly UAE".:ok:

[T O G A Boy]

Bahrain is surely on a course of destruction :ugh:

[Propellor]

The thread is getting from ‘Bud(weiser) to Verse’!!!

Ali Baba, I liked your ‘Tom Cruise’ part, but I think the FM330 must be re-named “I.E.”, acronym for “In Emirates…”. That is the beginning and the end of his knowledge, and the source of his (mis)information which he tries to impose on all. But give the devil his due – he is the better one of the two First-class Megalomaniacs, a.k.a. FMs.

To the lovers of pork: thankfully, the Frankfurt flights are still around, and the customs do not see beyond a bottle (irrespective of the volume) or toy aeroplanes that can bomb the palaces!

Off late, I see a lot of press asking for ‘Bee-on-snuff’ to buzz off. The MPs can wait awhile – he still has some old Swiss Air/Nairobi Planters Club cronies to accommodate! And why not – he is smarter than the MPs: when they protested about too many VPs, he made them all Directors! Heard that the housing department is preserving the old name boards, anticipating a reversal in a few months when the MPs protest about too many Directors!

Let’s take the better side of GF – it is still a better company to work for than a lot of other carriers and Bahraini’s a better than a lot of other places. Just stay away from the Pink Palace and the religion - that is the bottom line. The Bahrainis have secure jobs (like Cap Tam on the A320, who should not be near a plane) and the expats have secure jobs in the long run, because of the ‘Bahrainization’. If you get what I mean….!

[brassplate]

the mps behind all this crap must be supported by all the rubber-tire-burners that are becoming more and more prevalent around the island.

[tankdrvr]

here is a breakdown...

Basic = 2100BD + (50BD for each year of service)
Housing = 650BD (married)
Pay per block hours = 6BD (average 60 hours = 360BD)
Meal Allowance per hour TAFB= 1.5BD (average 150 hours = 225BD)
Wife allowance = 42BD
Child allowance = 12.5BD (per child)
Communications = 13BD
Utilities = 48BD
Transportation = 40BD

Total = 3490.5BD or $9,319.65

TAX FREE...
There have been increases in the allowances, I don't have on hand now. Also, there is a education allowance if you have kids.
This should give you some idea.

[Chuck Y]

Heard the pay the pay for the trips seven is going to be upped due to lack of interest from the senior guys & they really don't want the ex767 jocks with the baggage onboard.

[HMD3560]

Priority to go the B777 will be given to the locals, and if not enough volunteers are available then expatriats might be considerd, A320 guys keep on dreaming.

[Albergineman]

"Priority to go the B777 will be given to the locals, and if not enough volunteers are available then expatriates might be considered, A320 guys keep on dreaming."

Their country, their airline... nothing more obvious!

A320 guys dreaming... and don't think so. Anyone who accepts the condition can apply.

;)

[Sal-e]

Gulf Air to ground A340s | Aviation (http://www.ameinfo.com/181053.html)

Has this happened yet?

[ironbutt57]

What's the deal with the "ex 767 guys" most of the senior GF pilots are "ex 767" at one point or another...according to the company it's by seniority, which by default rules out the "recent hire" 767 guys..which includes myself...

[Yo767]

they really don't want the ex767 jocks with the baggage onboard.

Dear Chuck (I wish I flew a real airplane before) Y, would you please explain more clearly what do you mean by ex767 jocks with the baggage onboard.

Regards

Yo767

[ironbutt57]

I would suspect some 340's maybe replaced by the 777 Sal-e

[Mike.Park]

I thought the write up in today's GDN about MPs slagging each other off was hilarious!

One MP seemed convinced that the so called "value" of Bahraini citizenship has depreciated due to the fact that the government has naturalization schemes in place.

I never knew "value" of one's passport was proportional to how many their were in circulation :hmm:

[Che Guevara]

Yep, per month.

[left_to_first_class]

per wife?:E:E:E

[Sal-e]

Yep, per wife.

[Propellor]

Bet ya the wives are peeved!
With BD 42 per month, (less than my teenaged son's pocket money), and denied the right to work - they must be pretty hard up!
Or that is what Gulfy would like us to believe.

[surfer of desert]

Hi,
Where the ground school of B777 is planning to be?
INDIA OR USA???
is going to be easy to get a visa for both countries???
in case of India, staying there for two months is going to be really hard.:*

[T O G A Boy]

I heard its going to be in India.

[Sal-e]

I think you heard right.

[Albergineman]

5 weeks in Mumbai...

[Not too small]

And the 5 weeks in salmaniya hospital

[Albergineman]

:yuk:

No chance!

:{

[REACH-69]

it seem's that there is a progress in GF plan ,first the 777's and second is young pizza face is appointed as an instructor without an assesment....nicely done mate:ok:

[brassplate]

so who's the new punk who has the power to run/ruin our lives?

[Che Guevara]

Like Duracell, the triple A's keep going and going and going.......

[Ali Baba]

You mean the pineaple face?

[T O G A Boy]

I'm lost here as who is the pizza or the pineapple face.....

[Mephistopheles]

Well, I guess the 777 deal has been approved, not that it really makes much difference to any of us. It will be operating GF007 from 1st March then the 2nd one joins us towards the end of the same month & will operate to BKK. Whooppeee.
Haven't heard of pineapple face, but pizza face has been an instructor for awhile now.

[surfer of desert]

Gulf Air leases 4 Boeing 777 aircraft
Manama: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 http://www.tradearabia.com/showrooms/images/icon2.gifhttp://www.tradearabia.com/news/images/spacer.gif http://www.tradearabia.com/source/2009/02/22/gulfair.gif Gulf Air, the national carrier of Bahrain, today signed an agreement to lease four new Boeing 777 ER aircraft as part of the airline’s re-fleeting and product-enhancement strategy.
Three of the new aircraft will join the airline during March 2009 while the fourth one will join in May.
The aircraft, leased from Jet Airways, will be used on a number of routes including London, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok and intra Gulf routes, gradually replacing the Airbus 340s.
“The introduction of these four aircraft is another important step in our strategic direction towards re-fleeting, enhancing our product and strengthening our presence as the carrier of choice in the Middle East and beyond,” says Gulf Air chief executive officer Björn Näf.
" In addition it will further strengthen our successful hub-and-spoke network and our operational efficiency while offering enhanced passenger comfort and flying experience
“The addition of the Boeing 777’s to our fleet is a major coup for us; the product they offer is one of, if not, the best in the world. I am confident that this will once again make Gulf Air the airline of choice and leave our passengers with an easy decision when deciding which airline to fly,” he concluded.
The wide-body Boeing 777-300ER is the largest long-range twin-engine commercial airplane in the world. It extends the 777 family’s span of capabilities, bringing twin-engine efficiency and reliability to the long-range market.
The aircraft come with a luxurious interior and a host of amenities providing the most comfortable travel experience to both premium and economy class passengers in a three-class configuration, i.e., First, Business and Economy with a capacity of 312 seats.
First class passengers on these aircraft can enjoy the luxury of a private suite with bespoke furnishing and a fully flat bed complete with a personal wardrobe. The herring-bone design business class offers a lie-flat bed with 180 degree recline, a privacy wall for personal space and world-class linens. Economy class seats come with more leg space, a 130-degree recline and a hammock headrest to support head and neck.
Gulf Air deputy CEO Ismail Karimi said: “As the national carrier of the kingdom, we are constantly looking at opportunities, where we can offer enhanced products and services for our customers. Ultimately, we want Gulf Air to be the airline of choice.”
Gulf Air already has two A330 aircraft on short-term wet-lease from Jet Airways. - TradeArabia News Service

[ssflyer]

Am PAX on GF2 in mid March and have been advised that my seats have changed and it is the 777.
Pics look very encouraging, if the FA's see anyone with a camera out ( pointing at the food and seats , not staff of course) it could be me.
Will let you all know what it is like a customer- used to enjoy the 330 ,the 340 on my return leg will be a bit of a let down ,methinks.

[ba7rain]

mangers from india :ugh:

B777 from india :ugh:

sim in india :ugh:


:sad:

[Mephistopheles]

Has anyone else wondered why we are leasing the B777 from Jet when I am pretty sure that we could approach Boeing directly & negotiate a sweet deal for GF especially with the current world economical situation. But, then again someone on the board(J.H. maybe?) would not be able to squeeze even more money from GF & we would not be coming to the aid of Jet Airways(once again) & their management.

[Propellor]

ba7rain: Mangers from India?
I thought they made some decent managers!
Didn't know about this part!

[Flygulfair]

The aircraft look pretty nice!

Boarding.no : Gulf Air to Lease Four Boeing 777 (http://www.boarding.no/art.asp?id=35371)

Even better pictures:

Images: Business and First class Jet Airways, Turkish THY, Gulf Air Boeing 777-300ER (http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2009/01/images-business-and-first-class-jet.html)

Not bad, but no pics of economy :\

[brassplate]

i wonder how long til gf's infamous engineers polish the interiors with their **** and duct tape.

[Desert Diner]

Has anyone else wondered why we are leasing the B777 from Jet when I am pretty sure that we could approach Boeing directly & negotiate a sweet deal for GF especially with the current world economical situation.


I would hazard to guess that there may be one or two even more "motivated" wet leasors, closer to GF, in the not too distant future.


... we would not be coming to the aid of Jet Airways(once again) & their management.


Good point.

[Desert Diner]

Economy class seats come with more leg space, a 130-degree recline :eek: and a hammock headrest to support head and neck.

Is that the new "gulfspeak"?

[T O G A Boy]

Looking forward to seeing the 777s in GF livery. wud be something different.

[abudee69]

Whilst all these daring but ambiguous decisions to lease B888's have been sealed! We are still left with the dilemma of who is going to fly them? After all the time and finance spent in the last 12 months to brainwash the flightdeck into Airbus jargon!!!! I rest my case. No I don't ,what are they going to lease next ???

[ODMEA]

They will need to board the hoards via overwing exits..no L1 or L2 even-

it's one thing to have these new interiors but can GF maintain them and the associated level of service required??:confused:

[REACH-69]

Any idea when are the two 330s x-mea and the xl 330 will arrive:ok:

[ironbutt57]

Hey Oddy we're trying our best to get u back...ok? Life at the airlines is a big circle..and we're coming 'round the bend...can I at least offer you a "peace pipe"?

[Panama Jack]

Lots of speculation . . . anybody know?

People are mentioning:
Moscow
Munich
Milan
Madrid
Manchester. . . .

Or is it additional segments to Mashad, Mumbai and Madras???

[bus787]

“The addition of the Boeing 777’s to our fleet is a major coup for us; the product they offer is one of, if not, the best in the world. I am confident that this will once again make Gulf Air the airline of choice and leave our passengers with an easy decision when deciding which airline to fly,” he concluded.

CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN THIS??

Does BN know that GF is the last from the airlines in the regoin to Introduce 777 in their Fleets.???

[Sal-e]

bus787,
Come on mate. Where have you been? Everyone knows GF's always had the best service, coupled with the worst hardware in the region. The new planes simply realigns this misalignment.:D

[Albergineman]

Sal-e,

Spot on mate!

:D

[Che Guevara]

it's one thing to have these new interiors but can GF maintain them and the associated level of service required??

I'll give you two guesses and the first one doesn't count....:{

[ex desert dweller]

With the Five-Star Tri-Star we were the best in all respects !!!