Silhouette challenge

[evansb]

The VT Tuuli Two is too correct!:ok: It crashed after the joystick broke off on a test flight. You have control!

[evansb]

There was a war-time Valmet VT Tuuli I, the post-war Tuuli II, and the side-by-side seated Tuuli III. Mel correctly identified the Tuuli II.

[MReyn24050]

Thanks Bri, if RETDPI has one to post I will give way to him.
Mel

[RETDPI]

Thanks Mel.
I knew that all along of course! ( funny , why has my nose just grown out and touched the screen?)
Interesting series of aircraft I was unaware of pre Valmet Vihuri.
No clues for this one.
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/gjquick/Aug23rd0001.jpg

[MReyn24050]

I know that one, the SIPA S.12 derived from the ARADO Ar 396.
Mel

[RETDPI]

I was hoping somebody would jump to Arado 396...........
The canopy is the giveaway that it is
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/gjquick/aug2320001.jpg
a S.I.P.A. S. 12.

All yours if you want it Mel.

[MReyn24050]

Thanks RETDPI I almost went for the ARADO AR 96B but then I noticed the UC was different.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Silhouettequiz19.jpg
Mel

[MReyn24050]

I have updated the list of silhouette challenges published to date. See the What Cockpit,What Aerodrome and What Silhouette Sticky.
Mel

[S'land]

Parnall Hendy Heck?

[MReyn24050]

S'land. Not the Parnall Hendy Heck. This one was French. Please check PMs.
Mel

[PaperTiger]

Looks a bit Guerchais-Roche-ish to me.

[MReyn24050]

PaperTiger has it. :ok: It is a Guerchais-Roche. The T-35-2 to be exact.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft%20Silhouette/Guerchais-RocheT-35-2.jpg
You have control.

[PaperTiger]

Ooh, caught me by surprise. :O

Open house unless I can find something first.

[RETDPI]

And with a giant leap...........
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/gjquick/26aug0001.jpg

[RETDPI]

24 hours . Ahem.
Well it was a production aeroplane. At least one was still extant when I last looked at it in a European Museum afew years ago.

[evansb]

Quite a puzzler you've got going! I've looked at many similar aircraft, but none match your silhouette.
Question: Who made the engine?

[chiglet]

Sud Ouest SO7060 Deauville, perchance?
watp,iktch

[RETDPI]

Sorry Chiglet -not quite but a good try!
Bri , if you go back to your Finnish fandango , you posted a picture of a successor (post 502) to the beast in question . That aircraft itself struck me as looking very similar to the aircraft below -which is itself a successor to my challenge -and powered by a similar engine to it..

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/gjquick/Clue0001.jpg

[MReyn24050]

The AISA HM-1B perhaps.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/118.jpg
Mel

[RETDPI]

Well done Mel!
Also known in Spanish service as the EE-4, it was a modification of the original open cockpit HM-1. Your picture is of the one preserved at Cuatro Vientos.
What have you got for us for the weekend?

[MReyn24050]

Thanks RETDPI, that was a great challenge. In fact I found the silhouette of the AISA HM-1 that had the correct wings, tailplane and engine but had the two open cockpits and disregarded it until you posted the AISA I-115.
Here is the next one but I do not think it will last the weekend.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft%20Silhouette/Silhouettequiz20.jpg
Mel

[dazdaz]

I'm thinking along the lines... Some Beech model? Don't think it's the Debonair.

Daz

[treadigraph]

Well I was going to suggest the gorgeous Scintex Rubis but I know I'm wrong... It's very attractive, and I hope a survivor exists?

[MReyn24050]

dazdaz, this one is not from Beechcraft. treadigraph not the gorgeous Scintex Rubis either. I am not sure if one still exists, I will do some digging.
Mel

[S'land]

How a bout the Procaer F 15 Picchio?

[chiglet]

I was thinking Wassmer...but the Wa40 was a trike....Hmmm
watp,iktch

[MReyn24050]

Sorry chaps not the Procaer F 15 Picchio nor Wassmer. This bird was not built in Europe. Soory for the delay in the response.
Mel

[MReyn24050]

Well we don't seem to be getting far with this one, perhaps we should go further East but that depends where one live if the world.

[Glory]

It isn't an early Zlin is it?

[MReyn24050]

No, not a Zlin. One must go much further east than the home of the Zlin.
Mel

[evansb]

Mel, were you able to find out if your mystery aircraft is still extant?
I think it is a Kawasaki KAL-1.

[MReyn24050]

Hi Bri, it is indeed the Kawasaki KAL-1 :ok:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft%20Silhouette/KawasakiKAL-1.jpg
No The only one I could find flying was a RC Model
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft%20Silhouette/ky-56507-kal_1.jpg
You have control.

[evansb]

Thanks Mel. Great challenge as usual. Here is the next silhouette:

Friend or foe? Do you shoot or hold your fire? What is it?
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WSH080901.jpg

[chiglet]

Vickers 432?
watp,iktch

[S'land]

How about one of thos flying insects that bite and cause malaria?

The Focke-Wolf FW 57 Moskito.

If so one would certainly swat it.

[JEM60]

Westland Welkin??

[RETDPI]

"Two bob for every one that you shoot down lads:
Half a crown if it's German."

[evansb]

Sorry, not the Vickers 432, nor the Westland Welkin. Not the Focke-Wulf FW.57 either, but it is German.

[S'land]

Let's try the Messerschmitt ME 410 Hornisse.

[RETDPI]

I get the impression its twin finned with the fins slightly inset. A bit too much perhaps for what looks otherwise quite early Ju 288 like around the wing and that could be a glass nose....
I would have gone for an early 288 at a push - but for those engines!

[MReyn24050]

I would go for the Junkers Ju 86D.
Mel

[evansb]

Sorry, not the Me.410. nor the Junkers 288 or Ju-86D. To help narrow your focus, although the mystery aircraft was designed for the Luftwaffe, it did not see combat. The model was surpassed by a much more successful aircraft that did indeed see combat.

[S'land]

OK. Germany designed quite a few twin engine aircraft that did not become operational. I propose the Messerschmitt Bf 162 (this time).

[RETDPI]

Never seen a shot of it from that angle!
Henschel Hs124 V1.
Great fun.

[chiglet]

He219 predesessor? or a Foke Wulf 191?
watp,iktch

[evansb]

RETDPI is spot on:ok: Well done:D The HS.124 would have been a good multi-role aircraft, but the Me.110 was even better. You have control.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/HS124V1.jpg

[RETDPI]

Looking at many of the other suggestions , I think many of us got the aircraft as being much larger. I think this was an illusion brought about partly by the complex wing shape. To be honest I was looking for something bigger from Henschel when I fell across it!
Anyway, a very good challenge indeed Bri and many thanks for the mental exercise!
Here's my latest:

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/gjquick/Sep2.jpg

[S'land]

Let's start with the Yak 5.

[RETDPI]

I see what you mean.
No. :}

[MReyn24050]

I think that will be the Ambrosini S.7.
Mel

[S'land]

I was going to come a bit closer to home, this time, and try the Fairey P 4/34.

[RETDPI]

Another good try S'land but I'm afraid Mel has beaten you to the post.
A beautiful aeroplane from a fine pedigree-there are a couple preserved still in Italy. The silhouette was of the two seater ( S.7b)
Here is a photo of the single seat Ambrosini S.7.
Mel, you have control
P.S. This was incidentally an ancestor of the Aerfer Sagittario/Ariete fighters featured recently on "What Cockpit" on this site.
But that's another story.................



http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/gjquick/scan0002.jpg

[MReyn24050]

Thanks RETDPI, another great challenge. Here is the next :-
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Silhouettequiz21.jpg

[S'land]

I am sure that I have seen this silhouette recently, but cannot remember where - old age is creeping on.

How about starting with the Tachikawa Ki-54 (civilian designation Y59)?

[MReyn24050]

Sorry S'land your memory failed you on this one it is not the Tachikawa Ki-54.:)
Mel

[S'land]

As you said Mel, my memory failed - again. how about the Caproni CA 310?

[MReyn24050]

Not the Caproni 310 but you are getting closer. Certainly the right part of the world.
Mel

[S'land]

My final offer for this aircraft is the Macchi MB 320.

If it is not, then I shall go and give my brain a rest and wait for the next challenge.

Richard.

[MReyn24050]

Richard, you do not have to go and rest your brain as it is indeed the Macchi MB.320 :ok:.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/1108047M.jpg
You have control
Mel

[S'land]

Thanks Mel. I said that I had seen it recently, I was looking up the details of this aircraft on Monday for a friend. My memory really is going. It has been one of those weeks so far.

Anyway, here is the next challenge.

http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p456/Sundland/Sil11.jpg?t=1220457212

[RETDPI]

Bit reminiscent of one of the early Vickers Viking Amphibian family c.1920.

[S'land]

Sorry RETDPI. Right period, wrong family.

[Synthetic]

Looks a bit Walrus to me, but tail is wrong. One of her predecessors?

[S'land]

Sorry Synthetic, but no.

[Glory]

Is it a Supermarine Channel perchance?

[S'land]

Not a Supermarine product.

[MReyn24050]

Richard. The Wackett Widgeon perchance?
Mel

[S'land]

Mel, spot on, it is indeed the Wackett Widgeon.

http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p456/Sundland/Wackett-Widgeon-I-G-AEKB.jpg?t=1220535386

More information here:
Wackett Widgeon I G-AEKB (http://www.airwaysmuseum.com/Wackett%20Widgeon%20I%20G-AEKB.htm)

You have control.

[MReyn24050]

Thanks Richard, a very interesting challenge. Here is the next one:-
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft%20Silhouette/Silhouettequiz22.jpg
Mel

[RETDPI]

Perhaps I'd better be let off of that too mate!

[MReyn24050]

No RETDPI, I will not let you off.Please check PMs
Mel

[evansb]

Mel, I don't have a name for this one, but it would appear to be Shenyang/Nanchang's #1 prototype CJ-6, with a Czech built horizontally-opposed 'Doris-B' engine. Am I close?

[MReyn24050]

Sorry Bri not the Shenyang/Nanchang's #1 prototype CJ-6, with a Czech built horizontally-opposed 'Doris-B' engine In one respect you are very close but in another you are continents away.
Mel

[S'land]

Looks like a cross-breed of two Beechcraft models, the T-34 and the CT-156/T-6.

I'll try the CT-156 / T-6.

[MReyn24050]

Sorry Richard this one was not from the USA.
Mel

[evansb]

How many were built?

[MReyn24050]

Sorry Bri but the only information I have got is that one was built with possibly a number of others, I am unable to come up with a definite number produced. The source from which the silhouette was taken states that following the prototype the aircraft was in quantity production for the country of manufacture's Air Force.
Mel

[S'land]

Let's try the AISA I-115 from Spain.

[MReyn24050]

Sorry Richard this one is not from Spain, it is however from the continent of europe. Check my response at Post #578 for a further clue.
Mel

[dazdaz]

How about a variant of the P.19 Scricciolo?

Daz

[MReyn24050]

Sorry daz not the Aviamilano P.19 Scricciolo.
Mel

[S'land]

Mel, could it be the Polish Utva 213?

[MReyn24050]

Sorry Richard this aircraft was not Polish although you are closer to the country of manufacture. The prototype first flew mid 1950s
Mel

[S'land]

OK, final offering for this challenge and before I go to bed. How about the Zlin Trener?

A number of versions were produced, starting with the Z-26. The version in the challenge could be the Z-326 version with the retractable undercarriage.

I did not offer it before as I thjought that we had already had this model, i was mistaken.

Richard.

[MReyn24050]

Richard, you are in the right country but it is not a Zlin aircraft. The engine is as Bri suggested a Czech built horizontally-opposed 'Doris-B' engine.
Mel

[evansb]

Was the aircraft also built by CKD-Praga?

[MReyn24050]

I don't think it was built by CKD-Praga, but you are in the right country.
Mel

[MReyn24050]

Well we seem to have reached a stalemate on this one time for a re-cap.
It was built in Czechoslovakia. It was powered by a horizontally-opposed 'Doris-B' engine. The prototype first flew 1956 and the production model flew a year later. It is reported that it went into production for the Czech Air Force but I am unable to confirm that.
A regular contender of this quiz has identified the aircraft.
Mel

[evansb]

Mel, do you mean the silhouette has been identified through a PM? The mystery aircraft must have turned in to an embarrassment, because the manufacturer seems to have buried all data associated with the bird.

[Speedpig]

C.Z.A.L. L-60 Brygadyr perchance?

[MReyn24050]

Speedpig not the C.Z.A.L. L-60 Brygadyr I am afraid.
Bri stated Mel, do you mean the silhouette has been identified through a PM? The mystery aircraft must have turned in to an embarrassment, because the manufacturer seems to have buried all data associated with the bird.
No it was not identified by PM but by RETDPI in the pun he posted at Post# 575 Perhaps I'd better be let off of that too mate! .
Letov To M8
The aircraft was the silhouette of the Letov TOM-8 and was from The Observer's Book Of Aircraft 1958 edition.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/TOM-8.jpg
The remains of a TOM-8 can be found at the Technical Museum Brno.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/TOM-8_01.jpg.
The aircraft is also listed in the Probert Aircraft Encyclopaedia.
I am sure RETDPI will agree it is Open House.

[evansb]

Mel, does your book say it was built by Letov? Probert's has it listed under TOM, and says it was developed by VTLU (Miltary Aviation Technical Institue) Perhaps it was built in the Letov plant...?

[MReyn24050]

Yes Bri, The Observer's Book of Aircraft does say the aircraft was from Letov, it gives the designer as Karel Thomach. It goes onto say ...was flown for the first time on April 23.1956 and this trainer is now in quantity production for the Czechoslovak Air Force and will possibly be offered for export. The first production Tom-8 trainers, manufactured by the former Letov company , were delivered in 1957.
Mel

[S'land]

Thanks for putting me out of my misery Mel, it was an excellent challenge, well done.

There is a colour photograph of the TOM-8 on the Virtual Aviation Museum site. However, they call it an Avia Tom 8. The aircraft in the photograph in in the Letecke Muzeum in Praha Kbely.

http://www.luftfahrtmuseum.com/htmi/ii/i015570.htm

[MReyn24050]

Richard thanks for that this aircraft seems to have had a number of manufacturers names. The photograph you posted shows the aircraft in Czech Air Force Markings, perhaps someone can inform us how many were produced.
Mel

[MReyn24050]

Doing some more digging I found the following (this is a translation from the Czech language):-
The prototype of a two-place aircraft by designer Ing. Tomas flew for the first time in April 1956. Let launched flight tests. Given the continuing difficulties in the development and taking into account the number flying the C-11 project was cancelled.
I believe that only two aircraft were built V-01 and OK-08.
Together with the "What Cockpit" thread this thread provides a wonderful platform to learn about unknown aircraft and aircraft development.
Mel

[evansb]

Yes indeed! This forum is a superb source of aeronautical history and trivia. To keep the thread moving, here is the next silhouette:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WSH080908.jpg

[RETDPI]

Absolutely! Another good challenge from Bri, Mel and Co. and a one to keep us guessing.

[S'land]

Could not agree more about this being an excellent source of knowledge, I seem to learn something new with every challenge.

Mind you, this latest one has me stumped. I do not recall having seen anything like it before.

[S'land]

I have changed my mind. I have just come across the Coandă - 1910. Built by Henri Coandă of Romania and exhibited in Paris in 1910. The first jet propelled aircraft ever built.

I said that I learn something from every challenge.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Coanda_1910.gif

[evansb]

S'land is correct.:ok: The aircraft was also the first sesquiplane, had metal leading edges, and leading-edge slats, and also carried fuel and oil in the upper wings. The use of high-camber airfoils was also quite new. Also, note the V-tail design. You have control.

[S'land]

Thanks Bri. Another interesting one to which I only found the answer by accident. Amazing to think that someone was already experimenting with jet propulsion so son after the first flight.

Here is the next one.
http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p456/Sundland/Sil13-1.jpg?t=1220909680

[RETDPI]

Sorry folks , can't do a cryptic clue for this one - FFVS J22.

[S'land]

RETDPI has it. It is indeed the plywood covered, metal framed FFVS J 22 from Sweden, first flown in 1942.

http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p456/Sundland/FFVS_J22.jpg?t=1220950897
You have control.

[RETDPI]

Thanks S'land . It just happened to be an aircraft that sticks out because of its unusual origin and manufacturer - I first looked up SAAB before the penny dropped!
This one's a little bigger


http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/gjquick/Sep90001.jpg

[Guest 112233]

Is it a proposed Miles Aircraft, small passenger design - say something like the DH Heron - It has a Miles feel to the shape say flown about 1948- 1950 perhaps.

PS The Coanda - was a scorcher of a problem.

CAT III

[GliderJ15]

Something tells me its of South American origin

[MReyn24050]

RETDPI wrote earlier Sorry folks , can't do a cryptic clue for this one - FFVS J22 well it is also difficult to do likewise with this challenge without completely giving the game away. Check your PM Geoff.

[RETDPI]

Looks like you'll probably have to let the cork out of the bottle if nobody gets it soon, Mel.

[MReyn24050]

Well Geoff, I am sure I can yak myself around that problem when it arises.
Mel

[norwich]

I feel a trap here ? Yak 16 ?? Keith ??

[evansb]

Funny thing. RETDPI's profile (side elevation) shows both main and tail wheel as fully retractable. The Yak-16 did not have those features. Most likely the drawing is lacking those details. I think Keith aced it!
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/yak-16.gif

[RETDPI]

No trap this time! Keith of Norwich has it. :D
The Yak 16 -(reporting name "CORK") was aimed at supporting the IL-12 and Li2 type of larger aircraft as a feeder liner. Allegedly it was also trialled as a crew trainer -possibly with a turret. In any event only a couple were probably built.
I think the illustration I used is possibly inspired by a sales brochure for the aircraft as intended for sale outside the USSR - the Yak 16 being unusual at the time in being marketed internationally, for example in South America.
Norwich ,
you have control.
Geoff of RETDPI

[norwich]

Thanks RETDPI, Sorry for the delay, work getting in the way again ! my challenge should follow all of my previous attempts and and be gone in a flash ??? Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/silly7.jpg

[S'land]

Let's start with the Bristol racer (G-EBDR) of 1922.

[norwich]

S'land wow another quicky from me, not only the type, Bristol type 72 racer, but the registration too, I'm impressed ! :ok: Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/bristoltype72racer.jpg

[S'land]

Thanks Kieth. However, not really brilliance on my part, but having got an idea of what it was I looked it up on the net and came across the same picture that you have. I was just showing off really.

Here is the next one.

Richard.

http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p456/Sundland/SIL14.jpg?t=1221085981

[chiglet]

SAAB 90
watp,iktch

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v505/chiglet/th_saab-90.jpg

[RETDPI]

Norwich posted that challenge at #92. (I remember it well as it was one I had up my sleeve at the time :\)

[S'land]

Norwich posted that challenge at #92. (I remember it well as it was one I had up my sleeve at the time

That will teach me to be in a hurry when posting. Usually I check first to see if it is on Mel's list. This time I did not. I can only apologise.

Chiglet was right, it is the Saab 90 (not the car)

Richard.

[chiglet]

It was also on my list to post, too......however,

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v505/chiglet/th_CHASCHAL1.jpg
Do you fancy this? I'll try and get a larger image posted

[RETDPI]

Good thought Chigs, Ta:
on the other hand it might be enough for some of those sharper minds.......

[S'land]

I will offer the Breguet 1001 Taon - which seems to fit also with RETDPI's cryptic clue.

[chiglet]

Correct, you have control...
watp,iktch

[S'land]

This time I have checked the list and am sure we have not had this one before (still very red faced after my last effort).

http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p456/Sundland/SIL14-1.jpg?t=1221213492

[LowNSlow]

looks quite Gallic to me...

[dazdaz]

I'm thinking....Nordic?

Daz

[RampTramp]

?Fairy Belgium? Fantome

[S'land]

No, No and No.

[diesel addict]

Yugoslav ?? Icarus ??

A very faint memory ........

[sycamore]

Ikarus IK-2,so I think Diesel gets it.....

[S'land]

It is indeed the Yugoslavian IKARUS IK-2.
http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p456/Sundland/ikarus_ik-2-1.jpg?t=1221243145

You have control.

[diesel addict]

Sorry about the spelling ....... Open house

[norwich]

To fill in another nano second, one of my easy posts ? Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/silly8.jpg

[dazdaz]

Props are slightly out of my 'scope' off the 'top of my head' US? Mustang derivative?
I'm picking at straws, as I usually do.

Daz

[norwich]

Daz, Not this time my friend, I think a clue must be due, not from the US.
Keith.

[RETDPI]

So, presumably, one would have to look at a product from a part of somebody else's Aviation Industry?

[Flawrence of Horabia]

It has the proportions of a Caudron-Renault. A fixed-landing gear CR714 prototype?

[norwich]

Sorry not a Caudron - Renault, it is an early version of the >>><<<< ? later ones with almost the same name had retractable u/c ?? Keith.

[Glory]

Is it one of the Percivals?

[norwich]

Sorry Glory, not from UK or US, there's another cluette. Keith.

[chiglet]

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v505/chiglet/th_ambrosini_sai-3.jpg
Ambosini SAI3?

watp,iktch

[norwich]

Chiglet, nice picture, wrong aircraft, sorry, not Italian either, another nation removed from the search ! Keith.

[Lindstrim]

Some sort of early Yak/MiG?

[LowNSlow]

I have no idea what it is but it looks like the illegitimate child of coupling between a Spitfire, Hurricane, Typhoon and a Proctor!

Mmm maybe something from the pen of Ernst Heinkel?

[norwich]

Lindstrim, Not Yak or Mig, in fact not Russian !

LowNSlow, What these manufacturers get up to when away from home is their secret ???
There is no Heinkel input as far as I know ! But some Germanic influence in its later life ?????
Keith.

[MReyn24050]

Avia B.35 perhaps?

[norwich]

Mel there is no perhaps, Yes the Avia B.35, the sillouette is a B.35/1, the later B35/3 had retractable u/c.
The second prototype flew with success only one month before Germany invaded Czechoslovakia, the Germans continued production and updates, there could have been influence from Heinkel but what I have read does not mention this ! Looking forward to your next challenge ?
Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/aviab35a.jpg

[MReyn24050]

Thanks Keith, a very interesting aircraft. Must have caused a problem regarding recognition as it certainly looks like a spitfire.
Here is the next one:-
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft%20Silhouette/Silhouettequiz23.jpg
Mel

[Glory]

To start the ball rolling........is it a Wilga?

[MReyn24050]

Sorry Glory not the Wilga.
Mel

[S'land]

How about the MFI-10 'Vipan'?

[MReyn24050]

Sorry S'land not the MFI-10 'Vipan'
Mel

[S'land]

Let's try the Aero Ae-50?

[MReyn24050]

Sorry S'land not the Aero Ae-50 either. It is european though, this one flew a few years after the Aero Ae-50.
Mel

[diesel addict]

I am fairly sure it is from the Netherlands. I expect the name will float across my memory at about Oh dark thirty........

[MReyn24050]

diesel addict you are correct with the country of origin. We await Oh dark thirty hour. :)
Mel

[chiglet]

Koolhaven?
watp,iktch

[MReyn24050]

Sorry chiglet this one was not from Koolhaven.
Mel

[treadigraph]

I've absolutely no idea what it is, but the side elevation reminds me irresistably of a Chris Wren "oddentification"! :)

By Slingsby out of Auster, but then that wouldn't be Dutch...

[MReyn24050]

The aircraft was from the Netherlands and only one aircraft was built. It first flew 1957.
Mel

[diesel addict]

Not quite oh dark thirty, but about 0725 just after landing a five pound tench...........

Hollandair Libelle ???????

If correct - open house

[MReyn24050]

diesel addict has it :ok:. It is the Hollandair H.A.001 'Libel'
Single-seat Agricultural Aircraft. One 135 HP Lycoming O-290-D2, Four Cylinder horizontally-opposed engine.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/HollandairHA001Libelle.jpg

In 1957 Hoekstra designed together with JG Velberg of the NMS an agricultural aircraft the 'Hollandair HA-001 Libel' which had been commissioned by the First Groningen Agriculture Sproeibedrijf, whose previous aircraft had crashed. The HA-001 "Libel" made its first flight on July 19, 1957. From 1960 tests were carried out at Zestienhoven Airport. Unfortunately they showed that the aircraft did not comply with the requirements.
It was sold in 1960 to Skylight for Banner towing. With a change of engine the aircraft was ideally suited for this purpose. In 1965 the aircraft hit a tree and was damaged beyond repair.
As diesel addict says - Open House.
Mel

[RETDPI]

The name Libel is similar to Libellula ,the Latin name for the Dragonfly family. The side view of the fuselage is somewhat reminiscent....

Here's a change..:)

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/gjquick/Sep920001.jpg

[GHNRY]

Something from CANT? But I can't pin it down.

GHNRY

[RETDPI]

Sorry, that Can't be right.
(Yes I know, but somebody had to say it!)

[S'land]

Fiat G.12 by any chance?

[RETDPI]

That will do nicely S'land!:ok:
A trimotor that continued post-war.
You have control.

[S'land]

Thenks RETDPI. The Fiat G.12 was the inspiration for the post-war Fiat G.212, the Flying Classroom. The last of the Italian tri-motor airliners.

Here is the next challenge Ladies and Gentlemen.

http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p456/Sundland/Sil16.jpg?t=1221672637

[BEagle]

It looks like Toby the Tram - with wings!

[evansb]

The rare, short-lived, but historically significant Canadian Vickers Vanessa.

[S'land]

Evansb has it. The Canadian Vickers Vanessa it is. One of the first aircraft with a fully enclosed cabin designed in Canada.

RCAF.com : The Aircraft : Canadian Vickers VANESSA (http://www.rcaf.com/aircraft/misc/vanessa/index.php?name=Vanessa)

Bri has control.

(Toby the Tram with wings, indeed. I think that it look quite smart, but then I am a bit weird when it comes to Flying Boats and Floatplanes).

[evansb]

Thanks S'land! That was fun! Not too many photos available of the Vanessa. Here is the next 'Silhouette Challenge':
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WSH080917.jpg

[chiglet]

Looks P39 ish....
But it's not...
It's not a P149 tho' is it?
watp,iktch

[evansb]

Sorry, not the Piaggio/Focke-Wulf P149.

[Jamesel]

How about the Johnson Rocket 185?

[evansb]

Jamesel is correct:ok: Yes, it is a Johnson Rocket. You have control.

[Jamesel]

I can get the photons to come out of the compuker, the little beggars I want to march in don't seem to want to go in the proper order:O, so......
Open House.

[RETDPI]

Those last two went quickly!
This should also not take long:
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/gjquick/Sep170001.jpg

[diesel addict]

Sud-Ouest 95 - possibly named "Corse" ?

If correct - open house.....

[RETDPI]

"Corse" it is.

[norwich]

Another long empty gap, can I post another easy easy one ? Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/silly9.jpg

[diesel addict]

My first thought was that Italian Bird Dog clone from SAIA Marchetti, but the fin looks wrong - can I try the Altlas 'Kudu' from South Africa ???

[S'land]

Possibly the Jaribu J430?

[dazdaz]

Lockheed CL-???

Daz

[norwich]

Diesel Addict, Atlas Kudu is not the name we are looking for ??

S'land, Not the Jaribu J340 either.

dazdaz, I think I know the Lockheed you are thinking of, but it's not that one ?

Two people have PM'd me with correct answers !! One says its realy noisey !

Keith

[diesel addict]

No, not the 'Kudu', although I now think it is the Aer Macchi er - AM-3 ??

Possibly a contender for the same job as the aforementioned Siai-Marchetti Bird-Dog clone.

Is there also a South African production link ??

If correct - open house.

[norwich]

Diesel Addict, Yes you are correct, I knew how close you were with your previous post, and the link to Italy and South Africa, I'm pleased you got it ! Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/aermacchiAM3CM.jpg

So as Diesel Addict has stated it's OPEN HOUSE !!!!

[evansb]

Get all four correct:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WSH080917A.jpg

[chiglet]

P51, F15, A10, F22.
If correct

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v505/chiglet/th_cchal7.jpg
Try this. Will try and enlarge it

[evansb]

chiglet. all correct:ok:

[S'land]

Chiglet's challenge.

I think that the German cross is a bit misleading. It looks like the French Bloch MB 157 designed and built in France, but captured and tested by the Germans after the country was occupied by the Germans.

[diesel addict]

Chiglet's challenge -

B****r, beaten to it - Bloch 157 thingy, I agree !

[norwich]

Yup thats the one guys, very similiar pic ! haha ! Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/bloch_mb-157.jpg

[Glory]

Before we move on, is the A10 the aircraft associated with the term "Tank Buster" or is it the P51, or, is it just a general expression given to any a/c that can take on a tank? :O

[dazdaz]

Evansb

Jet on right of pic......Northrop T-38A Talon?

[con-pilot]

Before we move on, is the A10 the aircraft associated with the term "Tank Buster" or is it the P51, or, is it just a general expression given to any a/c that can take on a tank?

The A-10 is called the modern day 'Tank Buster'.


Jet on right of pic......Northrop T-38A Talon?

Nope, F-15.

[chiglet]

AFAIK, the P51 was never a "Tank Buster" [6 50cal mgs not really good enough] The Hurricane Mk IV [I think]with 2 40mm cannons, or the Junkers Ju87G with the same armament, on the other hand most certainly were tank busters.
watp,iktch

[S'land]

As Chiglet has not made any comment, and as Norwich posted an identical picture I am assuming that I gave the right answer.

Here is the next challenge. I expect that it will not last long.

http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p456/Sundland/Sil18.jpg?t=1221920304

P.S. Strange to think of the Hurricane as a 'Tank Buster'.

[norwich]

Lets kick off with Nardi FN.333 of 1952 ??? Keith.

[chiglet]

S'land (S@land),
I humbly, nay most humbly appolgise for not admitting de feet. That three peeps identified my crude attempt to confuse one and all, must be mitigating circam stands...or am I to be banned from this Plethora of Knowledge???
'Tis up to you to decide, horrible sir.....
watp,iktch
Excuse..I was at work

[barit1]

I remember seeing this (http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austmz/VH-SAV.html) (called a Lane Riviera in the US) at an early 60s EAA meet - Rockford IL.

[barit1]

The A-10 is called the modern day 'Tank Buster'.


The A-10 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Thunderbolt_II) was literally designed around the 30 mm Gatling gun. The whole airplane "just fits" - the nosewheel is offset 280 mm to starboard to clear the gun barrel assembly. During the prototype phase, I met Alexander Kartveli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Kartveli) who was in semi-retirement from Republic; He said it was the ugliest airplane he ever worked on, but acknowledged it was very efficient as a gun mount.

[S'land]

Norwich, it is indeed the Nardi FN.333 of 1952. Fratelli Nardi sold the manufacturing rights to Savoia-Marchetti in 1959, after which it became known as the SIAI-Marchetti FN.333 Riviera.

Well done, you have control.

Barit1, Lane assembled and sold the aircraft in the USA.

There is an interesting site about this machine at:
The Nardi FN.333 Riviera Amphibian (http://www.seabee.info/FN333.htm)

Chiglet, no apologies needed. One of the most enjoyable things about this forum 9s the amount of interesting discussions about aircraft and their roles.

Richard

[norwich]

Thanks Richard, More fun to be had with this, short lived, post ??? Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/silly10.jpg

[diesel addict]

Martin "Mauler" ???

[norwich]

Diesel Addict, It's not the martin you suggest, in fact I have just read Mel's list and this one has already been done !!! OOOOPS
Should I remove it or let it run ? to see how good all of your memorys are ?
Another day with no "brownie points" Keith.

[acmi48]

ju 87 g1 was fitted with a 37mm cannon x the a10 design committee read hans rudell's book while working on the thunderbolt with this a/c in mind
rudell 'killed' over 500 tanks and even a small warship

[sycamore]

Boeing Model 400(XF8B); Open House....

[norwich]

Sycamore is correct, I am sorry for the repeat post, must pay more attention ! Keith.

OPEN HOUSE !

[chiglet]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/chiglet/chal4.jpg?t=1222035751
Knowing you lot, this won't last long
watp,iktch

[RETDPI]

Did it have a greek test pilot? :E

[dazdaz]

Chiglet..........
Looks like a 'Thunderbird' to me, was a great fan of the tv series:cool:.

[sycamore]

Something from the pen of Kurt Tank ?

[evansb]

The Yugoslavian designed and built IKARUS 452-M
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/ik452m04.jpg

[MReyn24050]

Good find Bri. Please check PMs.
Mel

[chiglet]

18 hours ain't bad.....:ugh:
watp,iktch

[evansb]

Thanks chiglet. An end elevation would have revealed the IK 452-M to be a two-holer. Power was two Turbomeca Palas engines.
Here is the next silhouette challenge:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WSH080922.jpg

[dazdaz]

Point of order to the committee, Evansb (he's on a charge) pic was not a silhouette challenge be it in good faith or diversifying from my original 'theme' silhouette it is not.

[norwich]

uuuummmmm Peter Phillips, Speedtwin, by chance ???? Keith

[chiglet]

As an outsider, I think that any a/c photygraphed against a sky...is a "Sillyette"...no highlights, just merging into shadowy darkness, to confuse the not so sober...:ok:
I posted a "negative image" and wasn't chastised, or castigated :{
I say let it stand...
watp,iktch

[evansb]

Keith (norwich) is correct. It is a Speedtwin. He has control.

[norwich]

Thank you Bri, I have checked Mel's supurb listing, and this one is not in there ! haha. I have very little info on this one, no first flight date etc, but will search ! but I am sure you people out there know the whole deal ? Or do you ? Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/silly11.jpg

[RETDPI]

No cryptic clue for this one as its close to my heart!
I spent many hours as a kid watching my father drawing up plans for this as a 1/8th scale flying model (never built incidentally).
The Boulton Paul P.31 , known as the Bittern.

[diesel addict]

Damn - beaten by two minutes - I must get up earlier !!!!!!!!

[norwich]

RETDPI, Yes Yes, I realy thought that would last a little longer ! Well done :ok:
Diesel Addict, A very very close second (1 minute) !
Looking forward to RETDPI's next challenge. Keith.

[RETDPI]

Many thanks Keith .
Just for fun ( and I don't expect this to last too long) is an aircraft that my father also drew the plans up for and which we successfully flew as a 1/12th scale free flight model.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/gjquick/sabe10001.jpg

[MReyn24050]

Well Geoff, I reckon if I scouted around I might find the answer to that one.
Mel

[S'land]

Unofficially it could have been a Sparrow. Would it be the Blackburn A.D. Scout of 1915?

[MReyn24050]

If you are correct S'Land and I am sure you are. I would like to ask Geoff how well did the model fly as I understand that four prototypes of the A.D. Scout were built, two from Blackburn and two from Hewlett and Blondeau Ltd, and delivered to RNAS Chingford. However, because they were all considerably above the estimated all-up weight and were found difficult to handle in the air they were scrapped.

[S'land]

Mel,
I would be interested to hear how the model flew as well. From what I have read fitting the fuselage nacelle to the upper wing may have given the pilot good all round visibility, but caused problems with the stability.

Richard.

[evansb]

Who has control ? I am guessing S'land. He should post right after Church.

[RETDPI]

Its the Sparrow of course. S'land has control:ok:
Well ,regarding the model. Powered by a Mills .75 (runs backwards nicely) the idea was to keep it fairly stable by using the undercarriage as a sort of pendulum. Thus the skids were made of brass. The fun was doing the inverted cabane -brass tube and sleeving soldered to get it 100% true.
Construction otherwise conventional balsa and tissue. Overall it came out quite light.
It flew O.K. and at a reasonably slow speed, but was subject to a bit of "hunting" and this led sometimes to a tendency to spiral instability -the comparitively heavy undercarrige of course not helping once the spiral was established. Examination of flight test reports of the original full size machine coincidentally indicated a shortage of fin&rudder area causing a lack of stability in yaw. We looked at building a 1/8th (Mills 1.3) version and I did suggest "cheating" on the fin area and /or slightly lengthening the tail booms. This suggestion met with a very piercing scowl from RETDPI senior!
Well , here is a a Kodak Instamatic (!) shot of the beast taken about 1966 accompanied by the chief flight tracking assistant -the famous "Labsation" Sabre Dog.
Geoff

P.S. Quite a thread drift acheivement to get a photograph of your old dog onto an aircraft silhouette thread :}


http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/gjquick/sabe10002.jpg

[S'land]

Thanks RETDPI. An interesting explanation about the model. Great photograph of the aircraft and the ground crew.

Here is the next challenge.

http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p456/Sundland/Sil19.jpg?t=1222194995

[diesel addict]

May I postulate -

FIAT BR.20 ??

If correct - open house

[dazdaz]

RETDPI.......
No problems with the odd doggie snap (no pun intended) in fact your post has given me another idea:ok: 'Guess the breed of dog silhouette challenge'

[S'land]

Please do so Diesel Addict, they cannot touch you for it.

It is indeed the Fiat BR. 20 Cicogna (Stork). With a first flight in February 1935 the Cicogna was used in WWII, the Spanish Civil War and the Second Sino-Japanese War. However, it was obsolete before Italy entered WWII.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5f/Fiat_Br.20.jpg


Diesel Addict has declared "open house".

[RETDPI]

O.K. I'll bite,
(I've just realised what I wrote):O

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/gjquick/Silo60002.gif

[diesel addict]

CASA "Alcotan" - type number forgotten.

I'm fairly sure of that one so - OPEN HOUSE

[dazdaz]

Seeing I don't get much chance (not very good on the props) of posting, I'm taking this opportunity (open house) to have a go.........

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b9/dazdaz1/01a.jpg

[RETDPI]

Not being a spoilsport, but can't I read something in the text bottom left?
Could it be......?

[dazdaz]

The text was purposely blurred for the tease factor.....I think I'm on a winner with this one..

[diesel addict]

Daz Daz challenge

Breguet "Alize" - the last letter with an acute?? accent.

Aeronavale sort of equivalent of the Gannet ASW

Yet another home for the RR Dart IIRC

[RETDPI]

In this case Alize translating as "Trade wind......-up" ?

[diesel addict]

Indeed - according to my ancient Collins Robert French-English

Alizé vent = Trade wind
( as you say 'wind-up' - closely followed by white flag up )

Open House again

[dazdaz]

Well done Diesel Addict:ok:

[evansb]

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WSH080925.jpg

[RETDPI]

I was born the year this thing was scrapped.:eek:

[MReyn24050]

Bri, Douglas XB-19 perchance?
Mel

[evansb]

Yes, Mel, it is the Douglas XB-19. You have control.