Silhouette challenge

[Lightning Mate]

OK guys.

I posted at 1229 yesterday Prune clock time, so I must reveal soon.

In the meantime:

Yes it was Austrian
Yes it was an Etrich
Its' name is synonomous with a certain type of car

Go.....

[skytrain10]

S'land, I was looking at Lloyd as well.

So I assume from whats been said that this is an Etrich aircraft but its not the 1930 Taube. From the similarity of the 2 aircraft I am guessing its an updated version which means its probably an early 1930's design. Was it actually built or did it just remain on Mr Etrich's drawing board. Frustrating!!

[Lightning Mate]

The car type is usually large.

[skytrain10]

Etrich Limousine?

[mustpost]

Dagnabitt!
http://www.rcpilot-online.com/hangar/photo/1455890-1935457.jpg

E. VIII.

[Lightning Mate]

Bingo!

Very well done Ken.:D

The Etrich E-3 Limousine.

Go Google.

I gladly hand you control. :ok:

[skytrain10]

Thanks LM. An interesting (and frustrating challenge). I am not sure I deserve credit for this as SincoTC was the first to say it was an Etrich Taube, so in normal circumstances I would hand it over to him. However he did say "Open House" if he won, so in that case I will take control!

My offering to follow shortly.

[skytrain10]

Here we go:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/sc81.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

Ahh, a jet!

Luverly Jubbly - or is it...?

[skytrain10]

No hidden surprises on this one...its what it seems, a jet!

[Lightning Mate]

Luverly Jubbly - or is it...?

I meant it's going to be difficult so not Luverly Jubbly.

[Ridge Runner]

Hello boys..... back from the sun and thought I'd log on..... no idea though, as yet! RR

I know it may be obvious but I think it is a Convair

[Noyade]

Northrop N-102 Fang?

back from the sun

G'day Martin. On holidays? Whereabouts are you?

[Ridge Runner]

I guess you got it mate....http://www.pprune.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=113117&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1139629636 (http://www.pprune.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=113117&d=1139629636)

RR

[skytrain10]

Well done Graeme, it is the Northrop N-102 Fang. A proposal submitted by Northrop for a low cost light weight fighter for the USAF in the 50's. It did reach mock-up stage, see below:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/NorthropN-102-1.jpg

Over to you.

And welcome back from your travels Martin.

[Noyade]

Thanks Ken.

Here's an easy one, but unusual.

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4476/mnbvg.jpg (http://img109.imageshack.us/i/mnbvg.jpg/)

[evansb]

Wagner (Piper) Twin Cub ?

[Noyade]

G'day Brian! :ok: Yes, one of Harold Wagner's "wild" twins which he hoped would be safer to fly over the West Coast mountains. Made from different Cubs, different engine powers and different prop diameters that overlapped each other, it nevertheless flew very well. His subsequent twin Tri-Pacer was also reasonably priced at $9,000 when compared to the cheapest twin available at the time (1952) for $50,000.

Your control.

(Note his twin Tri-Pacer in the background...)

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/849/twincub02.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/i/twincub02.jpg/)

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/5899/wag1t.jpg (http://img188.imageshack.us/i/wag1t.jpg/)

[evansb]

Thanks Noyade. Interesting design. Great for carrying passengers one is not fond of. Here is the next challenge:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WSH100106.jpg

[skytrain10]

Evening Bri, looks like the Convair "Kingfish" project, which was I believe to be a competitor to the Lockheed A-12/F-12?

[evansb]

skytrain10 is spot on:ok: The Convair Kingfish. You have control.

[skytrain10]

Thanks evansb. Time to step back in time a little:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/sc80.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

Hiya!!!

French I'm guessing by the "beauty" of it.... Need to check what now!!

RR

[skytrain10]

Mmm, I was beginning to think no-one was around!

A good guess....yes it is French.

[evansb]

The SNCAC NC-420 ?
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/1.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

G'day Martin. On holidays? Whereabouts are you?

Hi Graeme, No just a work trip. M

[skytrain10]

Well done evansb, it is the SNCAC NC-420.

Back to you!

[evansb]

Thank you. Ahh...the French. Why not put the cockpit to le gauche? Et le gauche! Here is the next challenge:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WSH100116.jpg

[JEM60]

Petlyakov PE3 I believe. If correct, open house please. Cheers.

[evansb]

Sorry JEM60, it is not the PE-3.

[Ridge Runner]

Bugger... I retract my mistimed post!!!!! RR

[Ridge Runner]

So how about the PB-100?

[skytrain10]

To me its looks like Petlyakov PE-2N (thats the Russian backward N!!) variant? But I'm wondering if its not a Petlyakov at all?

[Noyade]

But I'm wondering if its not a Petlyakov at all? I was thinking this as well. But what? It doesn't seem likely that evansb would toss the well known Pe-2 onto the screen but on the other hand sometimes the obvious makes you look elsewhere?
If it is a wartime silhouette then maybe it's inaccurate but if not the glass panelling doesn't seem to match any Pe-2 variant. Closest I could find was the early Pe-211 but even then, there are obvious differences...

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7289/pe2z.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/pe2z.jpg/)

Another thought is maybe a Myasischyev version?

An even scarier thought, maybe it's not Russian?

Even scarier than that, I'm talking complete rubbish! :) Back to my bong.

[Lightning Mate]

Well, I have convinced myself that the engines are Klimovs.

[evansb]

Well, skytrain10 is closest. It is a Petlyakov Pe-2. I couldn't accept PE-3 as an answer as the PE-3 has a solid nose and protruding cannon. Over to you.


http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/pe2/pe2-4.jpg

[skytrain10]

Thanks evansb. Sometimes the obvious can be the most frustrating! I couldn't find a PE-2B variant, but this was the PE-2N(Russian backward variety).
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/pe-2.jpg

Here we go:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/sc82.jpg

[SincoTC]

I believe it's the Ishida TW-68 Tilt Wing Project of the early nineties.

ishida aerospace | transport faa | stage iii | 1991 | 2284 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1991/1991%20-%202284.html)

Dual mode aircraft - Google Patent Search (http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPATD332079&id=NeQpAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

If Correct Open House Please!

[Noyade]

I believe it's the Ishida TW-68 Tilt Wing Project of the early nineties.

Well, that's what I thought it was as well Sinco and nearly tripped on the carpet running to the bookshelf, but I don't think it is...unless the design changed with time?...

(Of course after the Pe-2 affair I'm more than likely wrong! :))

Compare this...

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8661/98881208.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/98881208.jpg/)

[Noyade]

Just managed to have a closer look at the sites you posted Sinco (Flight Archive always gives me grief), and I'm convinced that my line drawing is out of date (1990).

Nice job mate!

[skytrain10]

Morning/Evening...SincoTC, it is the Ishida TW-68 tilt rotor. Well done. And yes, my 3-view post dated yours Graeme!

SincoTC has declared Open House.

[Noyade]

Open House.

Sorry about the staple line (no idea how to 'shop' it out) but I thought it was an interesting photo...

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2139/poorf.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/poorf.jpg/)

[Ridge Runner]

See PMs mate

Your post -a Curtiss Hawk?

[Noyade]

Hi Martin. I replied to your PM. Hope it helps.

Sorry mate, not a Curtiss product.

[HarmoniousDragmaster]

for some reason the plane in the foreground looks Italian, dunno why. So is the target a Regianne Re 2000?

[Noyade]

So is the target a Regianne Re 2000?

Sorry mate, no, it's a Vultee V-11.

And I'm also sorry because I have to stop there and call it quits for the day. Night.

Cheers,
Graeme.

[skytrain10]

Confused....are we identifying the aircraft tail in the foreground, or the one chasing it?

So the tail in the foreground is a V-11? The one in the background certainly looks like a Regianne, but maybe not...?

[HarmoniousDragmaster]

The Vultee was the plane we were aiming for, does Graemes reveal mean its open house?

[skytrain10]

Must admit I thought we were trying to identify the aircraft in the background? If its accompanying (ie not attacking) the Vultee, I guess its a US fighter or allied fighter?

[HarmoniousDragmaster]

We have a disconnect here skytrain. The plane in the background was the one we were identifying (our target, as it were), but Graeme is obviously alazy slacker and prefers to go to sleep rather than to play with us (lol) so he has called time on the challenge and revealed the answer (Vultee V-11)

Trouble is, I don't know what happens now?

[SincoTC]

Morning Guys!

Just checking in to see how my overnight answer fared.

When I saw Graeme's Challenge, I thought (Like Skytrain) that it must be the little feller in the background, mainly because that really is a "Silhouette"! I was going to look into the fact that it appears to have leading edge slats in the open position, so it's presumabley formating on the camera ship, but that's no longer relevant now as HD says. Graeme has closed the challenge and announced the answer as the Vultee (camera ship) . Although he didn't say it in so many words, I'm sure that Open House is what Graeme meant and we should carry on.

[skytrain10]

Well, if its the background aircraft we are after, then we need to keep guessing as I am sure its not a Vultee V-11. If its the foreground then I guess we have the answer.

Maybe there is a clue to the aircraft in the background...perhaps its also a Vultee, a P-66 maybe. I had previously discounted a radial, but now I look again, I wonder?

[HarmoniousDragmaster]

Looking again, I am sure Skytrain is right and Graeme misunderstood what I meant by 'target', which is my fault for being too lazy to write 'aircraft we are looking for'.

It is a single seater so cannot be the V-11 and so is still a valid challenge, unkless I am wrong yet again :uhoh:

Therefore I think the silhouetted aircraft is the Vought V-143/V-150 :confused:


I am starting to believe that I am retarded.

[SincoTC]

re-reading the posts, I can see that there is some ambiguity; in HD's first post, he mentiones that the foreground plane looks Italian and then asks if the "target" is a Reggiani (meaning the answer we are loooking for), but a tired Graeme, may have interpreted this as the foreground plane as it had just been mentioned and it does look like it's being attacked, so he answered HD's question and logged out leaving the Challenge running.

Yes, maybe it could be a Vultee P-66, does that have L/E Slats, or is that not what you read into the profile?

HD, I think that you've just agreed with me but our posts crossed, but I'll have to disagree with you, you're not a retard!!

And now I'll have to leave you guys to it; as an elderly neighbour has just called to say her drains are blocked, so I'm off for an afternoon of "rodding the dunny", lucky me :sad: !!!

[Lightning Mate]

Now I'm confused.

"it appears to have leading edge slats in the open position"

Methinks not. Aeroplanes of that period rarely had these devices. They are trailing edge flaps, presumably deployed to match the possible slow speed of the photo ship.

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[Lightning Mate]

A Vanguard by any chance?

[skytrain10]

LM, I've already suggested the Vultee P-66....which is the Vanguard!!

Having said that I am far from sure so still looking.....

[Noyade]

My apologies for all the confusion. I guess it's not wise to try challenges late at night when you're tired.

Yes, the small silhouette was the challenge. It is seen in mock combat with the Vultee V-11 which I 'thought' HD was referring to as the "target." Sorry I didn't make it clear.

Nevertheless, well done Ken, the Vanguard. :ok: In fact the tall tail Model 48X.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1817/49631523.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/49631523.jpg/)

Off to work I go...

[skytrain10]

Thanks Graeme....a nice challenge.

Busy this evening so Open House guys.

[SincoTC]

Well done Skytrain, Good Challenge Graeme! Glad it's all sorted, just like my neighbour's drains!

LM, it was precisely because very few aircraft of that period had L/E Slats that I thought it may be a significant clue, I had ruled out the discontinuity being due the the flaps showing, as they spanned too much to allow for the aeilerons.

Now that I've had a chance for another and closer look, I think that they are probably an artefact of light/shade on panel lines which may have fooled the silhouetting process (and me :ugh:) plus the fact that they appeared to go right over the gun-ports too :uhoh: !!

[Ridge Runner]

OH? We'll I'll try again......http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/peach38336/PPrune080110A.jpg

[skytrain10]

I'm back...it looks very much like the SCAL FB-30 Avion Bassou.

[evansb]

I'll wager it is the Bassou FB31 Rubis. :)

[Ridge Runner]

Good morning gentlemen.... Yes, evansB has it, the FB31. From what I can see the FB30 had a different engine.
The FB31 ...http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/peach38336/PPrune080110A.jpg

The FB30 ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Aeroclub/File032.jpg


Over to you!!!

RR

[evansb]

Thanks, RR, yes the FB-31 had a 9-cyl Salmson radial versus the FB-30 2-cyl. horizontally opposed Menguin engine. Here is the next challenge:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WSH100118.gif

[Ridge Runner]

Morning!!!! Is this a Nieva product?

[evansb]

Good morning! Sorry, not from Brazil. I am off to bed til approx 15Z.

[Noyade]

I am off to bedNight mate!


Nieva productMorning Martin! Were you thinking of the Regente? I was gunning for the Aermacchi AL-60 but apart from other differences I noticed something peculiar(?) in Brian's challenge; the struts extend from the wheels to the bottom wing roots.

For the life of me I can't find a high wing aircraft of this size that does that. They all seem to have struts that extend from out along the bottom wing to the fuselage or landing wheels.

(I'll stand back now and watch the monitor fill with examples proving me wrong! :))

[Lightning Mate]

....the struts extend from the wheels to the bottom wing roots....

That's because it's a cantilever wing so it has a strong centre-section enabling the undercarriage loads to be taken to that part of the structure.

The world loves a smart-ass....

[skytrain10]

There is something familiar about this...from above, other than the rear window, it is similar to the unbuilt Partenavia PD93. The rear half of the aircraft looks a little Partenavia'ish, but the front...?? A utility aircraft, big windows/passenger door...for para jumping??

Need to research this one...

[Ridge Runner]

Ther are also bits of it that are Dornier-like! The wing in planform, for example. Its certainly built in that rugged german fashion. Like Graeme, I'm preparing myself for the fall out! RR

[skytrain10]

I see what you mean RR....the side view (forward of the tail) is how I would have imagined a utility Extra 400! Maybe its Russian or maybe a project? Perhaps a homebuild....there are plenty of those in this category...not that I can find one like this!

[evansb]

Clues: Not Russian, not Italian, not German, not American, nor a self-build. Only a few were built, first flew in 1971.

[Ridge Runner]

With ruggedness in mind how about Canadian? A CCF machine? Or something from Scandinavia? That undercarriage smacks of bouncing arpund cold, wet, rocky, icy places to me. Maybe I'm wrong. RR

[skytrain10]

The year solved the problem....the ICA IS-24?

[Ridge Runner]

From??????? I can't find it!!!

[skytrain10]

Romania....Observers Aircraft 1973 edition came to my rescue!

[Ridge Runner]

ah ha!!! Well done!!! So is that the IAR-824??? Wasn't there one at Farnborough at one time?

http://www.airwar.ru/image/i/la/iar824-i.jpg

Just checked. Yes, at Farnborough 1974!

[skytrain10]

Not that I ever saw, but first one I went to was 1974, so could well have been before then.

[skytrain10]

Observers has it listed as the ICA IS-24, which was redesignated the IAR-824 at some point.

[evansb]

skytrain10 is correct, originally called the ICA IS-24, it was later changed to IAR-824, as per Ridge Runner's post. My source was Janes 1989 AWAC. Good work to both of you:ok:. skytrain10 has control.

[skytrain10]

Thanks Bri....have to admit the clue definitely helped, thank heavens for the Observers series...William Green RIP.

Something a little faster....

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/SC83-1.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

Blimey!! Where's LM.........???

[SincoTC]

Only here for a few minutes so can't follow up on this, but my first thoughts are that it has a lot of similarities to the SM-64 Navaho missile G-26 developed by North American in the late fifties. From memory the wing-tips look wrong and I believe they intended to fly back for a landing at the Cape during tests (but never did), hence landing gear on a missile.

[SincoTC]

Change of mind, I think it's more likely to be the North American X-10 (AKA as the RTV-A-5, the tips and engine exhaust pipes fit the silhouette now!

It was a test precursor for the Navaho program and did succeed in making a few landings.

If correct Open House please as I'm off-line now 'til tomorrow afternoon.

[skytrain10]

There is a very close connection with the SM-64 Sinco. This particular offering was part of the SM-64 programme. 13 were built and 10 actually flew. I really need the name at this stage, but yes, we are talking a North American design.

[skytrain10]

Messages crossed, well done, yes its the North American X-10.

Over to you.

[Lightning Mate]

Blimey!! Where's LM.........???

Sorry chaps, been too busy working.

Bugger, the X-10 was up my sleeve for a post...........

Do I read Open House?

[Lightning Mate]

Think so..............

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/wossat153-1.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

Ah... Dastardly and Mutley........

[Lightning Mate]

"Dastardly and Mutley"

Go Google RR....

[Noyade]

I confidently predict that it was never built!

British transport project? I like the 'curved' nature of the fuselage and windows. Are they engineer/mechanics positions at the rear of the engine nacelles?

[Ridge Runner]

I reckon its a ruskie but I don't know what! Despite LM's urging I haven't ventured on to Google with it yet. My books have drawn a blank though!!! RR

[Lightning Mate]

"..Are they engineer/mechanics positions at the rear of the engine nacelles?..."

Nah. For ferrying miscreants at Her Majestys' Pleasure to more southern climes......

[skytrain10]

Evening LM, the C-E Transcontinental A-12 of 1916?

[Lightning Mate]

Good morning skytrain.

In one - the C-E Transcontinental A-12 Triplane.

You have control :ok:

[skytrain10]

Cheers LM...I can see what RR mean't regardingly Dasterdly and Mutley...anyone know if it actually flew (or was even completed)?

Ok, off we go:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/sc85.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

A little more on the C-E Transcontinental A-12 Triplane.

One source says that the cut-outs in the engine nacelles were for engineers to look after the engines, another suggests they were for two pilots.

Looking at the glazing in the front fuselage I rather think the latter.

Flight International from July 1916 shows a photograph of it partially constructed, but nobody knows whether it flew. I suspect not. Claimed endurance was to be 20-25 hours.

[Ridge Runner]

Where are Sablatnic and Walter-Karl when you really need them to move this along????? I've got no idea on this...... RR

[skytrain10]

It does seem very quiet so probably time for a clue. Despite its perhaps older appearance, this aircraft first flew in 1937. To save lots of looking through Aerofiles, its not from a US manufacturer.

[Lightning Mate]

Thanks tryingskrain. :\

[evansb]

For a 1937 design, the nose looks circa 1925, the tail looks circa 1913.:eek:

[Lightning Mate]

5000-odd pages from Flight spanning 1936 to 1938 and one hour later and guess what I've found?






Bugger all..............:\

I'm now off for a large glass of 40 proof finding juice....

[skytrain10]

LM, its by no means definitive, but I cannot see this aircraft showing on the Flight archive...I've searched the same period as you did.

Evansb, yep I could see people looking in a much earlier period (I certainly would have been) so figured I should offer a little guidance!

[Noyade]

To save lots of looking through Aerofiles, its not from a US manufacturer.

Stopping now. Thanks Ken.

[Lightning Mate]

Breaking off the attack.

Nite. :\

[skytrain10]

One more clue for the nightshift...the aircraft had folding wings.

One thing I should have picked up on earlier from evansb...as I mentioned, the aircraft first flew in 1937...it was not designed in 1937. Design dates back to 1932.

Will be closing down for the night soon.

[sycamore]

East of Suez?

[skytrain10]

Hi sycamore....not east...closer to north (but not Russia or former USSR).

Closing down for the night now.

[Lightning Mate]

Italy or Poland then?

[one11]

A bit like the Hungarian Lampich Roma but different engine and fin

[carson1934]

Miracle, miracle!
This is the first time since December 5th that I'm permitted to log in. That's why you didn't hear from me any more although I knew quite a few of your challenges. How frustrating....:sad:
carson1934

Let's hope it works normally from now on

[skytrain10]

Hi LM.....Poland it is.

This is the 2nd type to be built by this company to bear the same name. The first was built between 1925 and 1927. The aircraft itself used the same 18hp engine as its predecessor.

[skytrain10]

One11...sorry didn't see your post...as you will have gathered, its Polish.

Carson...welcome back and a Happy New Year to you....hope you have overcome the login problems for good now.

[Noyade]

The Zalewski W.Z.XII Kogutek II...?

[Lightning Mate]

Noyade,

Personal e-mail coming within the hour.

[skytrain10]

Well done Graeme, it is the Zalewski WZ-XII Kogutek II, derived from the WZ-XI Kogutek. :D

Here she is in the flesh....
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/WZ-XII.jpg

For more information, particularly on the WZ-XI go to:
Google Translate (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&u=http://www.samoloty.ow.pl/str301.htm&ei=vNlWS4_MCYmM0gTijvDuBA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAwQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dzalewski%2Bwz-xi%2Bkogutek%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26hs%3Ddvs)

Noyade has control

[Ridge Runner]

A great challenge but sadly not my area of knowledge, but I'm learning every day!!!! RR

[Noyade]

Thanks Ken. Poland was certainly a lot easier than Aerofiles.

Not sure about this one. Would you classify this as silhouette? If so, I think it opens up new possibilities? If not, I can replace it.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7146/11035913.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/i/11035913.jpg/)

[Lightning Mate]

Would you classify this as silhouette? If so, I think it opens up new possibilities.....

I'm all for ringing the changes. I think it's nice to have a change from 3-view black-white/white black.

[Noyade]

Yeah, it's pretty easy, crude but easy. Look for a line drawing, making sure the 'guts' are white and hopefully the 'outside' is darker or make it darker and then 'negativise' (is that a word?) with Irfanview (Sablatnic's tip from a while back).

Got your message LM, will have to reply tomorrow, gotta get to work early.

Couple of clues for the morning shift...

It was a Canadian project from 1961. The same image is on the internet, I put it there.
And one11, if you're still about, I found your Pemberton Billing Durotofin in No.51. This illustration is from No.68...;)

Nite!

[skytrain10]

First shot would be something from Canadair....they had a 4 engine military jet transport project designated CL-99....so is it the Canadair CL-99?

[Ridge Runner]

I reckon it is mate... Canadair CL-99 - * military cargo transport (4 x P&W JT3D-14 turbofans), 1961

[Lightning Mate]

I was on that site this morning.

P&W JT3D-14 turbofans

They look more like turbojets to me.

Noyade has said that the same image is on the web.

[one11]

And one11, if you're still about, I found your Pemberton Billing Durotofin in No.51. This illustration is from No.68..

Noyade....

Yep. still around, just not getting to the few that i can identify quick enough.
Sorry, thats No.51 of what ??????

[skytrain10]

To me they look more like turbofans. If the scale is anything to go by the intakes are considerably larger than any turbojet I can think of, or come to that, turbofans of that era. However I found one article which commented that the -14 variant of the JT3D would need a wider intake than previous versions. So for the time being I'm sticking with the CL-99.

[Lightning Mate]

You may well be correct mate, but why is the web returning no images for it when Graeme said it's there.............? :\

[skytrain10]

I know, and its bugging me. I'm just trying to see what other manufacturers it could be....fortunately there are not too many to choose from....unless of course it was a complete unknown....??

[Lightning Mate]

I rather think your latter statement might well be correct!

I guess we'll have to wait for annoyingade to wake up tonight.

[Lightning Mate]

You were correct with the engines.
They were classified in North America as low bypass fans.

[Noyade]

Yep. still around, just not getting to the few that i can identify quick enough.
Sorry, thats No.51 of what ?????? Sorry mate, I was absolutely sure your shelves were stocked with Air Enthusiast when I found this in No.51 the other day...

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/152/sorrydoug.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/sorrydoug.jpg/)

The Canadair projects appeared in issue No.68.

You may well be correct mate, but why is the web returning no images for it when Graeme said it's there.............? Because I'm a loser and the internet ignores me. Here I am....

Strange Boeing 747 - Aircraft of World War II - Warbird Forums (http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/modern/strange-boeing-747-a-8173.html)

So for the time being I'm sticking with the CL-99.Good on ya Ken! :ok: Always stick with your gut instinct!

Your Control.

Cheers,
Graeme.

[skytrain10]

Cheers Graeme....for some reason I didn't look in WW2 forums! Mind you nice to see a picture of the "Casino Royale" 747, which used to belong to the company I worked for upto a couple of years ago!

Time to go back in time:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/sc84.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

I've no time to research at the moment Skytrain10 but I'dguess at American. It hasa SPAD look about it, especially around the engine and cowling. Have a good day one and all!!! RR

[skytrain10]

Quiet overnight? RR, its not American. Its from a European country and was built in 1922 (although I have found an article on the web suggesting 1923).

[skytrain10]

Not the GL.50 mustpost, and not from France.

For those wondering why I have posted this, mustpost had posted a reply, then I guess, withdrawn it. Anyway, you all know its not French now!

[mustpost]

Ha! the strategy worked..one less country to trawl.. OK I own up, I did think it was something it was not..

Is it an obscure Letov?

[Ridge Runner]

like the S-4, perhaps? Actually I don't think it is having now looked at it further. RR

[Lightning Mate]

Hi all.

Just come ou to play.

I've got fifteen Letovs in a book in front of me, and none fit.

Mmmm......no wing or strut stagger, no dihedral, same span on upper and lower wings, and what appears to be an inline 4 engine.......

[skytrain10]

I like your style mustpost....!

Not the Letov S-4, right era, wrong country.....thats another one eliminated!

[Ridge Runner]

Not French but how about Belgian? I 'm certain that we can eliminate the Germans in this because it just doesn't seem to have their style about it. So, my latest shot is at the Belgians..... warm... even "ish"? RR

[skytrain10]

Not very warm RR, you need to head east....

Hi LM...the engine was a Hispano Suiza

[Lightning Mate]

Can't find a pic at the moment, but Stikbing Sport ?

[skytrain10]

Do you mean the Stubing Sport from Germany....if you do, no its not that...and its not German.

[Ridge Runner]

Swiss???????????

[mustpost]

OK, I'm guessing it's Russian, with imported Hispano engine

[Ridge Runner]

It doesn't look Russian but I'm at work and away from any books! RR

[skytrain10]

Looks like we are on a European tour!

Not Swiss (too far west), not Russia (too far east). Look at some of the eastern european countries.

[mustpost]

Is it an Aero of some sort?

[skytrain10]

Not an Aero mustpost, and not Czech.

Although information is a little unclear it would seem this was the first factory produced indigenous aircraft to be built in this country, albeit there were other privately produced aircraft prior to WW1 as well as foreign assembled machines. The same manufacturer also produced this countries first aero engine in the same year that this aircraft was built (they obviously did not trust the combination of their own aircraft and engine combination in one machine!).

[Ridge Runner]

So Austrian and the engine was a beemer?

[skytrain10]

No and no......!! Keep going east.....

[Ridge Runner]

How about Hansa Brandenburgg C1 built in Romania? Or the Proto-1/2????

These look similar....http://webspace.webring.com/people/ks/strezahuzum/pics/S_proto2.jpg The first engine in Romania being produced 1922 by ASTRA?

Thus it is the ASTRA-Sesefschi two-seat biplane!!!!!! Ooops... it didn't have a Hispano!!!! Maybe I should stick with the first guess, the Proto-1/2???

[Lightning Mate]

Romania is shouting at me too, but I've looked at those.

[Lightning Mate]

RR,

The reason that my computer is running slowly is that you are on all the same sites as me......

[Ridge Runner]

possibly???????

Peddle a little harder mate!!!!!!

[skytrain10]

It is Romania, and RR has got there, just about...its the Protopopescu Proto-1, produced by Astra Engineering Works in Bucharest. The sole Proto 1 crashed but production continued with the Proto-2. See also SET who carried on with production under their name.
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/proto1-i.jpg

Over to you Martin.

[Ridge Runner]

Thanks Ken.

How about this one (the best I can scrape up from here!!)http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/peach38336/PPrune080110.jpg
RR

By the way, that was a good one. I had no idea in the beginning but then started digging and voila!

[SincoTC]

Hi RR,

I'm pretty certain that it's the Carmier-Arnoux "Simplex" of 1922 (I remember seeing it when looking for LM's Carmier recently)

If correct Open House please as I'm offline soon 'til tomorrow lunchtime.

Thanks RR; yes, a difficult to forget shape, with a layout very similar to the "flying plank" control-line models of my youth, I dread to think what longitudinal stability was like!

[Ridge Runner]

And you'd be bang on SincoTC!!!!! Yes, its pretty unique looking isn't it!

As the man says.. OPEN HOUSE (where are you LM!!!?? Poised?)http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/peach38336/Carmier-ArnouxSimplex.jpg
Neat... a plane with a beer barrel included!!!

[Ridge Runner]

Yes, I'm not sure the beer barrel is a good idea!!!! oo.. er...... RR

Well, I'm heading home. It looks like LM's dozed off..... I quite expected a Mach 3 glider or something from him!!!!!

[SincoTC]

You might just as well be "blind drunk", because you wouldn't have a very good view over the nose from that cockpit position anyway :eek: !!

Seems like the reflex camber developed by Arnoux gave it stability, but it did seriously injure two TP's before it was abandoned!

[Lightning Mate]

Wossa doze off Jobber?

An open house? OK:

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/wossat154.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

A Curtiss Jenny? Nah... can't be.... It's a yank, though!

[Ridge Runner]

Mmm... so what are those shadows behind the u/c???? Can't see much to work on here..... RR

[Lightning Mate]

Morning RR.

Not a Jenny, but, yes, it is a Yank.

Got to rush into class - standby for shadow gen..

LM

[Ridge Runner]

Surely not RATO??? (he he)...

[mustpost]

Is it a Standard J? Or a later similar Lincoln-Standard?

[Lightning Mate]

Disregard "shadows" chaps, except for the two-bladed prop.

The other shadows are not - they are the drooped elevators.

"Is it a Standard J? Or a later similar Lincoln-Standard?"

I'm afraid not.

[Lightning Mate]

This might help:

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/wossat154photo.jpg

[mustpost]

A Sloan/Standard H-2 then?

[Lightning Mate]

MP,

A belated personal welcome to the thread from me. :)

Sorry though, it's not a Sloan/Standard product.

[Lightning Mate]

Looks like it will have to be cluetime soon.....

[SincoTC]

A quick lunchtime stap in the dark; is it the Barnhart Biplane of 1916?

[Lightning Mate]

TC,

Sorry mate, it isn't.

[mustpost]

Not a Jenny, but
Is it a Curtiss tho'?

Added to say it might be an Aeromarine 39...:E

[Lightning Mate]

Sorry mustpost.

It's neither.

[Lightning Mate]

1916

125hp Hall-Scott engine

Design team based in New York state

The photo at post *5924 is from "Flight" 1916.

[mustpost]

With such help, it could be a L.W.F. Type V?

[Lightning Mate]

My my, you are beavering away!

That's a negative though. :\

[mustpost]

I have already discounted a Christofferson - was I right?

[Lightning Mate]

Not only beavering, but fishing as well.

You were right.

[SincoTC]

Coffee time; and I recon it's the M.F.P. model B 2 biplane.

If correct Open House Please as I back to work now!

[Lightning Mate]

Bingo TC. :D

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/wossat154photo2.jpg

Designed by Walter H. Phipps of the Steel Constructed Aeroplanes Co, NY.
Constructed by the Polson Iron Works, Toronto, Canada.

Three people formed the M.F.P company:

J.B. Miller, Walter L. Fairchild, Walter H. Phipps.

TC has declared Open House.

You still there mustpost? Here's your chance mate.

[Ridge Runner]

OH!!!! Well here goes!!!!http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/peach38336/Pprune210110A.gif

[skytrain10]

Fauvel AV-28?

[Ridge Runner]

It certainly is.... bugger.... er, I mean well done!!!!!

"The AV-28A was a fighter project seater twin-cockpit-centre, equipped with two engines Gnome & Rhone "Mars" of 630 hp or 800 hp and armed at the centre of its wing two 20 mm guns and three machine guns 7.5 mm. This project was presented in 1938 at the French Air Ministry, but was refused, partly because the pilot was not in the axis of the aircraft.

The French defeat against the German army in 1940 prevented any development of military projects of Charles Fauvel."

Your control mate!!!!

[skytrain10]

Thanks Martin, an interesting "what if", but sadly one of many Fauvel designs that never got beyond the drawing board.

Lets try this one:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/sc86.jpg

[Ridge Runner]

I know it seems obvious but is it a Partenavia project

[Ridge Runner]

I digress but one for you LM

Public Information Films | 1951 to 1964 | Film index | Streaked Lightning (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/films/1951to1964/filmpage_streaked.htm)

[Lightning Mate]

RR,

Never seen that before. Many thanks mate.

A 74 Squadron (Tiger Squadron) F1A.

"Want to fly a Lightning?" Seen it, done it, got the T-shirt.

"Want to service a Lightning?" - no thanks...!!!

Per Ardua Ad Astra. Ad Astra was sometimes 80,000 feet. Way over the limit, but a lot of us did it. We could see Earth curvature.....

Seen 1.3 Mach with 120 knots IAS......ALTITUDE!! :eek:

In 1958 we were way, way ahead of the Yanks - thank you you Mister Petter. Now what have we got ??????

Tearful LM....

[Ridge Runner]

I thought you'd like it!

Yep,and we'll always be ahead of the yanks..... Never lose faith!

M

[skytrain10]

Not from Partenavia.

Nice film find RR...will have to have a look at that site in more detail.

[Ridge Runner]

and here's another....

FARK.com: Fark Video Player (4632948) Coolest aircraft video you'll see all day: Alert response and 15-ship B-52 Minimum Interval Take-Off (MITO), in support of Exercise GLOBAL THUNDER, Minot AFB, ND, June 09 (http://www.fark.com/cgi/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=4632948)

It takes me back to see the big-bellied D models at Carswell - three/four doing circuits for a couple of hours! Loadsa smoke!!!!!

RR

[Silvio Pettirossi]

It is the italian OMA SUD Skycar, recently EASA certified....

If I am right, I declare open house...

[Lightning Mate]

Pah....only fifteen.

When I was part of the Bruggen wing, Germany, in the late 70s, we often launched four squadrons of Jaguars on what was known as Option Alpha.
Take-offs were pairs at well under a minute intervals. Basically if you could get a pair on to the runway, you went for it.

All jets in a spread-out twenty eight mile long formation going to saturate a single target.

Forty-five to forty-eight jets !!!!!!!!!!

Now then, back on thread to the challenge..

Edit:

Looks like SP has got there. Let's hope skytrain isn't up too late tomorrow.

[skytrain10]

Well done Silvio, yes its the OMA SkyCar, which perhaps despite the appearance of the 3-view has been built and is flying. Here she is:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/omaskycar1.jpg
Silvio has declared Open House. Not sure who's still around this evening, but may be an opening for Noyade or evansb?

[MReyn24050]

Here is an earlier twin-boom aircraft.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft%20Silhouette/Silhouettequiz87.jpg
Mel

[critter592]

Looks like a FE8?

[Lightning Mate]

It's not an FE8.

I think we might have to go further afield.

[sablatnic]

Could be the ANEC lightplane from - maybe 1921. I do know it isn't the ANEC II from 1923, but I have seen this one somewhere, and think that it was constructed by a flying club.

[sablatnic]

WRONG!
But it could be "Aero Club of the Royal Aircraft Establishment"'s Zephyr.

[MReyn24050]

It is indeed the Aero Club of the Royal Aircraft Establishment's Zephyr.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/800px-RAE_ZephyrA.jpg
The Zephyr was the first of three light aircraft designed and built by the Aero Club of the RAE. It was designed by Samuel Childs. As the Club originally considered it as an entrant to the Lympne Motor Glider Competiton where the Daily Mail prize of £1000 for a 50 mile flight was limited to aircraft with engines of less than 750 cc capacity, it was fitted with a 600 cc Douglas flat-twin engine that produced only about 20 hp (15 kW)

You have control.

[sablatnic]

Thanks.
A little later.

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac93/sablatnic/Whatsits/Whatsit_20100122.jpg

[skytrain10]

Something from IAe....very similar to the IAe.37, although some minor differences from the 3-view I have.....

[skytrain10]

Have looked again and I'm pretty sure it is the IAe.37.

[sablatnic]

It is the IA-37. Right

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac93/sablatnic/Whatsits/hort3.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac93/sablatnic/Whatsits/hort2-1.jpg

[skytrain10]

Thanks sablatnic. One of many fascinating designs from IAe.

Open House.

[Lightning Mate]

Sometimes I come online at exactly the right time:

An easy one:

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/wossat158.jpg

[SincoTC]

Hi LM,

I believe it's 1926 Albessard tandem monoplane with 70-h.p. Anzani engine (not to be confused with one of a similar name produced in 1914)

I suspect that the name given in the article below may be wrong and that it should be referred to as the Albessard Triavion of 1926 which was apparently fitted with a 95-h.p. Salmson.
But they look like the same aircraft to me!!! :confused:

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1926/1926%20-%200582.html (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1926/1926%20-%200582.html)

If correct, Open House please as I'm offline soon until Monday

[Lightning Mate]

Hi TC.

It isn't the Albessard tandem monoplane.
"I suspect that the name given in the article below may be wrong and that it should be referred to as the Albessard Triavion."

They are not the same aeroplane.

The challenge one is the Triavion, so a win. :ok:

TC has declared OPEN HOUSE.

[Ridge Runner]

OH again? Well here's another .... (easy for some)!
http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/peach38336/PPrune210110.jpg

[evansb]

Charpentier C-1 ?

[Ridge Runner]

it is mate, well done.

http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Fauvel/plancharpentier3.gif

Glad you got it because Im out all day today...... RR YOUR CONTROL

[evansb]

Thanks RR. Here is the next one:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WSH100124.jpg

[con-pilot]

Convair XB-60? Or actually the prototype production version design or advanced version of the XB-60 design as it never went into production.

[evansb]

Yes, con-pilot, it is a proposed version of the Convair XB-60 bomber. But what version, and what was its powerplant?

[Ridge Runner]

It is the nuclear-powered version with GE X-39 engines, utilizing a P-1 reactor

[con-pilot]

Yes, con-pilot, it is a proposed version of the Convair XB-60 bomber. But what version, and what was its powerplant?

Whew, now that's a little harder. I could cheat and look it up, but still going on memory I do believe that Ridge Runner may have it correct, it was to be nuclear powered. I also seem to remember that the B-36 that flew around Carswell AFB at Fort Worth, Texas with the nuclear reactor in the aircraft was kind of a test bed for this project.

As for the version, I'm going with the XB-60 N.

In any case, if you deside that I am correct, it will be open house.

[Ridge Runner]

I'm not sure that there was a designation for it. The closest I can find is reference to a YB-60 that was proposed to test this.

If I'm correct OPEN HOUSE please as I'm signing off soon. RR

[Noyade]

Convair X-6 ?

[evansb]

Noyade is correct. Well done all.:D The atomic powered B-36 was called the NB-36H, so if the XB-60 had actually flown powered by a nuclear reactor, perhaps Convair and the USAF would have designated it XB-60H, as per con-pilot's thought. According to declassified documents, the project was called X-6. Ridge Runner was first to identify the powerplant(s). Noyade has control.

[Noyade]

Thanks mate.

I've got a 'date' with a black colonoscope in a few hours, so I'll leave this with you and check the progress later. Cheers.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3740/95313488.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/i/95313488.jpg/)

[con-pilot]

The atomic powered B-36 was called the NB-36H

Oh well, I was close, I knew that there was a 'N' in there somewhere.

Thank you.

[Lightning Mate]

Welcome con-pilot.

Looks like we now have 24 hour cover and several night shifts!

[drawbarz]

Noyade,

Is it the Stolp White Der Jager D.IX?

If I'm right please consider it 'open house' as I'm not sure when I'll get back on here.

John

[Noyade]

Is it the Stolp White Der Jager D.IX?Sorry John, but no. However you've seen through my intended smokescreen as its not of WWI vintage but an American kitplane from 1997. Won Champion-Best Built Airplane at the 1997 NWEAA Fly-in and an "Honourable Mention" at Oshkosh in the same year.

[Ridge Runner]

Morning all!!!


Convair X-6 ?


The eagle eyed amongst would have seen that I posted X-6 and then deleted it, thinking I was wrong!!!! Actually X-6 was a project name, and not the aircraft designation. Nonetheless well done Graeme.....

On with the show!

RR

[Ridge Runner]

By the way, is yours a Hatz?

[Noyade]

The eagle eyed amongst would have seen that I posted X-6 and then deleted itG'day Martin! See, as I said earlier, always stick with your gut instinct! :)

Actually X-6 was a project name, and not the aircraft designationI had a quick look at an old copy of Miller's X-planes and found this line drawing titled B-60, but it came under the X-6 entry, so I simply posted that.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4504/xb60.jpg (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/xb60.jpg/)


By the way, is yours a Hatz? Nope. Sorry. Here's a photographic clue...

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/966/sill4639089.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/sill4639089.jpg/)

[Lightning Mate]

Methinks this is called the "Mifyter".

[Noyade]

Methinks this is called the "Mifyter". That's the one mate! Your control. :ok:

The MiFyter (http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/replica-fighters/13-mifyter.html)

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7963/mifyter4.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/mifyter4.jpg/)

[Lightning Mate]

Thanks Mate.

Trying to mail you another "teaser" before you go zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Ball rolling:

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/wossat161.jpg

[skytrain10]

Morning all

Reggiane Re.2007?

[Lightning Mate]

...and a very good morning to you skytrain.

You're on the ball this morning!

You have control :ok:

[skytrain10]

It had that Italian feel, and a very Reggiane look.

Will have something for you all shortly

[skytrain10]

Off we go:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/sc88.jpg

[sablatnic]

PAT-1 maybe?

[skytrain10]

Got it in one sablatnic. It is the PAT-1. First flown in July 1981, sadly the one and only example crashed a couple of months later.

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/PiperPAT-1.jpg

You have control sablatnic

[sablatnic]

Here come:
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac93/sablatnic/Whatsits/what20100124.jpg

[skytrain10]

Looks very much like a C-141A Starlifter....but is that too obvious?

Or maybe the "civilian" Lockheed 300?

[sablatnic]

Not the Starlifter or the Lockheed 300.
Then again. It was one of the phases on the way from C130 to C141. Take it. It is yours.
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac93/sablatnic/Whatsits/476l-1small.jpg

[skytrain10]

Thanks sablatnic....incidentally what was the model designation...or did it not get one?

Keeping to the same theme.... I had found this one some time back:

http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii457/kendyer/Silhouette%20Challenge/sc89.jpg

[HarmoniousDragmaster]

That looks like a Boeing nose to me, even though the design resembles an MDD design on the way to the C-17

[SincoTC]

Along similar line to the preceding Challenge; is it an early concept for the AMST Program that led to the C-17 Globemaster II, perhaps the first Boeing BX proposal, are they extra engines mounted in the pylons, or ducting to blow the fan air directly at the flaps while the hotter core flow goes under them?

[skytrain10]

HD....the nose does indeed owe a lot to Boeing. Boeing were one of 2 manufacturers involved. This design has no connection with the C-17. What is not clear from the 3-view is that this was to be a passenger transport. Not sure if the engines hide the windows, or whether the windows were left off the design drawings!

[skytrain10]

Sinco...not part of the AMST programme. I am not familiar with the Boeing BX proposal so wont comment on that, however there is no mention of that in the literature I have on this aircraft.
The engines were never specified however it was to use the augmenter wing concept to generate lift, hence there is indeed a secondary cool air outlet from the engine to assist short field performance (well spotted!).

[SincoTC]

How about the Boeing-Aeritalia BA.751 Stol airliner transport project of 1971 or thereabouts?

I can't find any more info and I have to go now, so if correct, Open House please.

[skytrain10]

You've got it Sinco, it is the BA.751, a QSTOL project worked on jointly by Boeing and Aeritalia for a passenger aircraft in the 100-150 seat category capable of achieving max take-off weight from a 4,000 ft runway.

Open House has been declared.

[Lightning Mate]

Today seems to be jets-a go-go:

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/wossat162.jpg

Push em up baby....

[Noyade]

God there are a lot of SST projects out there! How about the Boeing 2707-200?...

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8697/boeing2707200sst3853528.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/i/boeing2707200sst3853528.jpg/)